There is always a cost, so how are you paying it?
In Ep #4 I examine the topic of free, first taking a dive into the definition of the word and how we can get confused about objects/services that appear to be financially ‘free’. There seems to be a problem with scale where a company as it grows larger will inevitably focus upon money as its primary goal (not a great motive) and the cost that a customer pays can get hidden (lack of transparency). To combat any negative effects from this I share how I’m personally trying to change my own mentality and some actions I’m taking to realise that ‘free isn’t free’.
A huge thanks to Aaron from Salonomics for supporting the show!
Value 4 Value Support:
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In Ep #4 I examine the topic of free, first taking a dive into the definition of the word and how we can get confused about objects/services that appear to be financially ‘free’. There seems to be a problem with scale where a company as it grows larger will inevitably focus upon money as its primary goal (not a great motive) and the cost that a customer pays can get hidden (lack of transparency). To combat any negative effects from this I share how I’m personally trying to change my own mentality and some actions I’m taking to realise that ‘free isn’t free’.
A huge thanks to Aaron from Salonomics for supporting the show!
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
[00:00:01]
Unknown:
Welcome you beautiful, beautiful soul to episode four of the value for value podcast, the title for today is free isn't free. So we're going to be looking into the topic of freedom and how this relates into the value for value model. So recently, I was listening to Episode 52, of podcasting 2.0, with Nikolai and this topic was brought up so it was around the 30 to 32 minute mark, if you want to go examine that, and I've heard this been talked about numerous times before by Adam curry, the inventor of the value for value model. And I thought it would be worth exploring today, because there is a bit of a pernicious side to the word free, I'm going to start off with a definition, if you've followed the main models at all before you would know this is something I quite like to do get a definition of the word and then you can really hone in on what you're trying to express and say. So I looked up the definition of the word free. And here's a couple of things that came up. So you can look at it in the adjective form. So this would be something like able to act or be done as one wishes, or not under the control of another or not confined or imprisoned or not subject to engagement slash obligation. So this is where you're thinking more of the term free will or free time, there's nothing that is imposing on me stopping me from using whatever it is that I have. Now, the other is more the adverb formed. And this is without cost or payment. So this is implying that there's a financial side to this. So you know, you can get this by one, get one free, offer something along the lines of that. And I think we can confuse these two definitions to our detriment, or even think that if no money is involved, there are no costs at all. So you know, if I get something free, there's just nothing in it that there is underlying, that's going to hurt me or make me need to pay in any sort of way. And I don't think that is true. And hence the title of today, free isn't free, there's always something beneath it. I want to dive more into this topic by looking at the problem of scale. And in particular, this is when we're talking about companies and how, as things grow and get larger one the cost or payment can get hidden. So this is where you're getting something for free. But it's like, Hey, how is this actually working, if you're getting, you know, a backpack or a material thing, or a good or an object? You know, the world doesn't conjure up things randomly. There is always someone doing something behind that. And it's very useful to know, you know how that cost or payment is occurring. And then the other thing is that motives can become money driven. So this is where you're thinking of a company that's growing. And maybe they had a core structure at the start something they really wanted to do. But then as they started getting more overheads, as they started getting more people that becomes more diluted. And you can see that they now have to account to shareholders, they now have to worry about all these employees that are asking for benefits and for, you know, a regular paycheck as as you sort of do. So I'm going to give two examples here of something that recently popped up for me. So the other day, I went to a Bitcoin meetup of all things.
And it was a fabulous time, there was probably about 40 to 50 people there, you go in and you know, they've got free drinks, they've got free food, there's people mingling, there's all sorts of things. They have a, you know, beautiful setup, they do some presentations afterwards, there was a bar tab also for free. And you can really look at this and go, Oh, geez, man, how is this actually happening? And the great thing with this is because it's a tiny little event, and you know, I got to personally meet Lucas, the guy who was doing it, he's been on the Mere Mortals podcast before, if you want to check him out. And I got that personal connection, I could really see how this was happening. Oh, okay. You know, he's real into Bitcoin. And he wants other people to know more about it.
And there is some companies also presenting here who are doing things with cryptocurrency. So, you know, potentially, they're going to be paying for this time, this attention that they're getting. So with this sort of thing, you can really see like, okay, there was free stuff, but I'm pretty aware of where that came from. It's not like it's just magically appeared out of nowhere. There's always caveats to these things, of course, but you know, I'm using this as a general example. The other end of the scale would be something like Spotify. And I'm going to pick on them for a little bit at the moment. And you can really see with a lot of things they're doing at the moment, they're exclusive. So this is the Joe Rogan's. This is the Call Her Daddy's the et cetera, et cetera, a big podcast, when they're, I'm gonna say advertising for Spotify. And there have been, you know, instances of them on their own shows saying, Hey, we're on Spotify now like or just as they're about to move over to Spotify. We're going to Spotify, it's going to be free, you know, emphasizing this real fee free, free, free, free factor in it.
But the problem with this is, is no transparency and how I'm paying. Spotify is a gigantic company, they have huge amounts of people, how are they managing to deliver this service, which obviously has all the infrastructure, it has all the, you know, technical things, the lawyers, the getting all these artists getting all these podcasts, all of these things require money and time and energy and effort. And, you know, where is the free Ness coming from? And, you know, if you had to ask me, I would say, I'm not particularly sure I'm I can make some guesses at it, I can guess that it's coming from money from advertisers, I can guess that it's from them taking my data, I can guess it's from, you know, a bunch of other ways that there is possible that they're just trying to gain attention now. And then they'll implement some sort of paywall or something afterwards. So I can make some guesses. But there's real no transparency, I, one, don't know where the costs and payments are. So I don't even know how they really operating and how much they have, I guess I could go into their financial reports and sort of see that. And then also, obviously, their motives are to make money. There's they're very much driven by that. And I'll explain more about that in a second. But it seems inevitable that companies are going to focus on money. The good ones try and maintain that core to some degree. So as I just mentioned, if you go on to right now, the Spotify desktop, and look this up, there are 33 words that are up here in this very minimal design, four of them are free. And if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see another two as well. So obviously, they are really trying to emphasize this free factor. But what is Spotify is core, what are they trying to do? What are they, you know, what is their mission in life, their purpose? If I had to guess from that, it's to give away free things. But okay, this, this can't work long term, how is that going to happen? So I wanted to now just talk a little bit about, you know, what can I do as a as an individual and sort of practicality because the the problem with free freeness is, it's a socket to human development. I'm just like everyone else, if there's something free, it pings up on my radar and cycle, I can get something without having to pay a cost that, you know, this is beautiful. This is magic. This is the best of all possible worlds sort of thing. But no, it doesn't work like that. There's always an underlying thing behind that. So for me, I think a mind shift, a mindset shift is somewhat required. Now, this doesn't require immediate action. But when we're looking at I'll relate it back to what I was talking about in episode 52, of podcasting. 2.0, Nikolai, and Africans, they have a somewhat inherent distrust in which I think a healthy amount is it's very good for for anybody. So if a you know, a Namibian is coming up to another Namibian and telling him about this free thing, they're not instantly going, oh, man, that's beautiful. Like what's, how can I get this because I have this little bit of distrust that saying, This guy's probably going to fuck me over. Now. on a large scale, that's really bad. You know, the some of the best indicators that are a country is doing well is the level of trust between citizens because then you can operate and do business and finance and commercial aspects. And you can have assurance that, okay, if I give this guy money, he's going to give me this product, or if there's an agreement it's going to come through. But the problem with that then is you can become too trustworthy. And then that's when the freeness factor can sort of get you and you're like, oh, shit, everything's free all look, goodness, in the world, everything's free. Without under having that mindset that you know what, that's, that's not really true. And I'm paying somehow, and I might not really be liking how I'm paying, this could be a terrible decision for me. So starting with the, the mindset, I think is useful. And just recognizing, hey, there's, there's going to be a cost for everything. The next would be, you know, trying to start identify in your day to day life, where the cost might be how these small moments might not really be that great. So, this is particularly useful for when something is being advertised. Oh, you can get this, you know, extra pizza 25% Free 25% larger for $0 or whatever.
Okay, how is that happening? Like, what what's the underlying basis behind that? If I buy three car tires and get one free? Is that really free? Or is it you know, just a clever little ploy then jacking up the prices of the other three? You know, there's just no I'm finding it more and more useful to try to identify these things in my day to day life and then recognizing, you know what, I don't need to buy an extra cake. Just to be able to get a third one free when you know one is fine. So there's all sorts of little ploys, wrapped up within that. And then this is harkening back to the previous episode, I would also say, you know, start expanding your your generosity, because there are people out there who are doing things amazing, which benefit you. And the cost might be something that they're willing to bear for a certain extent. So for me is, uh, one thing that happened recently in the Bitcoin event, I made sure I went up to Lucas afterwards and said, Hey, I really appreciate everything you're doing here, you know, how can I help? How can I make this better for you? Or do you want, you know, anything? Because doing that is like an a recognition that, hey, this isn't free. Now, maybe he did it out of his own goodwill, maybe has other things behind that.
But you know what, that's also nice for me to go out and verify that in a way. Another one was just today, actually, I've been talking about this for a while that Wikipedia is an amazing resource I've used it for God knows how many years and I've never paid anything for it, not even with advertisements, because I don't believe they do advertisements at all. I'm willing to be corrected on that. But I can't recall seeing advertisements ever on Wikipedia. And I thought, holy crap, this is been one of the most beneficial things ever for me, I've gained so much knowledge, I've learned so much from this. It's not the be all and end all of truth seeking but god damn, it's pretty good. I probably should donate, I probably should give them some value back. And so I did that today for the first time, the fountain app as well, and one of the podcasting 2.0 apps. I've been using it a lot, but I haven't been sending that many Satoshis through it, because I prefer doing that on some of the others. So today, I signed up for their little premium content, I didn't need to do that. There's nothing in there that I've really particularly want. But I've been using the app, and I felt somewhat obligated that, hey, if I want to really maintain this mindset of free isn't free, I need to you implement that in my own actions as well. So, you know, withdrawing your support is another way as well as is recognizing for me Spotify, if I'm not paying for it, somehow, there's there's going to be some consequences for that. And, you know, I'm not super comfortable with whatever it is that they're doing. Because I just don't know, I don't know how that is making money if it's not from, you know, a direct transfer from me, for example. So that's all I have today, some thoughts on why free isn't free. And now this podcast is value for value enabled. And I do want to start giving some shout outs to people who are helping me along with this. So I received a very nice booster gram from Aaron who runs the salah nomics podcast in England. So if you want to know more about hairdressing man, that's the podcast for you. And he sent to me, thanks for the tips I agree with you are either reaching out on social to interact with people. So this is hearkening back to my previous episode, episode three. It's all about putting positive vibes out there not for anyone else's benefit but your own, giving us better than receiving a similar feeling when we got our first review. Hey, thanks so much, Erin. I really do appreciate that. That was 1000 Satoshis sent using curio caster totally agreement, I mean, you know, you're agreeing with my message. So I'm agreeing with myself in a way but that that positivity, that is the first value for value, booster gram. So, you know, you are now in the annals of history. And man, I really do appreciate that man, it's so much fun, your you know, 40 cents or 50 cents Australian, whatever it is that that equates to nowadays, if I just found that on the street, you know, that would have meant nothing to me. I would have walked over it if it was in coins, probably.
And I actually did Yeah, the other day, that was 40 cents laying on the street. I didn't I didn't pick it up. But that message, holy shit, man, that that really means a lot to me, it means so much that you've put that time and effort into it. And for all those others people listening as well. You know, there's so many small things you can do to brighten up someone's day to provide value and to to help out. So that's it for today. If you want to help me you can stream Satoshis while listening to this on any of the a lot of the 2.0 apps I'll give you a little fun fact as well for today. So I recently found out that if you are using an Android Auto car, so car which has Android or Android Auto to connect to if you use podcast addict, you will be able to see the chapter images in that so I tested that out the other day with my co host want on the new models car and I just think that's super cool then he was loving it as well. So a little tip for you there on value for value. I'm always trying to provide some value. So if I can do that in a small way as well that that brings me joy. And other than that, I really hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are in the world. Kyrin out
Welcome you beautiful, beautiful soul to episode four of the value for value podcast, the title for today is free isn't free. So we're going to be looking into the topic of freedom and how this relates into the value for value model. So recently, I was listening to Episode 52, of podcasting 2.0, with Nikolai and this topic was brought up so it was around the 30 to 32 minute mark, if you want to go examine that, and I've heard this been talked about numerous times before by Adam curry, the inventor of the value for value model. And I thought it would be worth exploring today, because there is a bit of a pernicious side to the word free, I'm going to start off with a definition, if you've followed the main models at all before you would know this is something I quite like to do get a definition of the word and then you can really hone in on what you're trying to express and say. So I looked up the definition of the word free. And here's a couple of things that came up. So you can look at it in the adjective form. So this would be something like able to act or be done as one wishes, or not under the control of another or not confined or imprisoned or not subject to engagement slash obligation. So this is where you're thinking more of the term free will or free time, there's nothing that is imposing on me stopping me from using whatever it is that I have. Now, the other is more the adverb formed. And this is without cost or payment. So this is implying that there's a financial side to this. So you know, you can get this by one, get one free, offer something along the lines of that. And I think we can confuse these two definitions to our detriment, or even think that if no money is involved, there are no costs at all. So you know, if I get something free, there's just nothing in it that there is underlying, that's going to hurt me or make me need to pay in any sort of way. And I don't think that is true. And hence the title of today, free isn't free, there's always something beneath it. I want to dive more into this topic by looking at the problem of scale. And in particular, this is when we're talking about companies and how, as things grow and get larger one the cost or payment can get hidden. So this is where you're getting something for free. But it's like, Hey, how is this actually working, if you're getting, you know, a backpack or a material thing, or a good or an object? You know, the world doesn't conjure up things randomly. There is always someone doing something behind that. And it's very useful to know, you know how that cost or payment is occurring. And then the other thing is that motives can become money driven. So this is where you're thinking of a company that's growing. And maybe they had a core structure at the start something they really wanted to do. But then as they started getting more overheads, as they started getting more people that becomes more diluted. And you can see that they now have to account to shareholders, they now have to worry about all these employees that are asking for benefits and for, you know, a regular paycheck as as you sort of do. So I'm going to give two examples here of something that recently popped up for me. So the other day, I went to a Bitcoin meetup of all things.
And it was a fabulous time, there was probably about 40 to 50 people there, you go in and you know, they've got free drinks, they've got free food, there's people mingling, there's all sorts of things. They have a, you know, beautiful setup, they do some presentations afterwards, there was a bar tab also for free. And you can really look at this and go, Oh, geez, man, how is this actually happening? And the great thing with this is because it's a tiny little event, and you know, I got to personally meet Lucas, the guy who was doing it, he's been on the Mere Mortals podcast before, if you want to check him out. And I got that personal connection, I could really see how this was happening. Oh, okay. You know, he's real into Bitcoin. And he wants other people to know more about it.
And there is some companies also presenting here who are doing things with cryptocurrency. So, you know, potentially, they're going to be paying for this time, this attention that they're getting. So with this sort of thing, you can really see like, okay, there was free stuff, but I'm pretty aware of where that came from. It's not like it's just magically appeared out of nowhere. There's always caveats to these things, of course, but you know, I'm using this as a general example. The other end of the scale would be something like Spotify. And I'm going to pick on them for a little bit at the moment. And you can really see with a lot of things they're doing at the moment, they're exclusive. So this is the Joe Rogan's. This is the Call Her Daddy's the et cetera, et cetera, a big podcast, when they're, I'm gonna say advertising for Spotify. And there have been, you know, instances of them on their own shows saying, Hey, we're on Spotify now like or just as they're about to move over to Spotify. We're going to Spotify, it's going to be free, you know, emphasizing this real fee free, free, free, free factor in it.
But the problem with this is, is no transparency and how I'm paying. Spotify is a gigantic company, they have huge amounts of people, how are they managing to deliver this service, which obviously has all the infrastructure, it has all the, you know, technical things, the lawyers, the getting all these artists getting all these podcasts, all of these things require money and time and energy and effort. And, you know, where is the free Ness coming from? And, you know, if you had to ask me, I would say, I'm not particularly sure I'm I can make some guesses at it, I can guess that it's coming from money from advertisers, I can guess that it's from them taking my data, I can guess it's from, you know, a bunch of other ways that there is possible that they're just trying to gain attention now. And then they'll implement some sort of paywall or something afterwards. So I can make some guesses. But there's real no transparency, I, one, don't know where the costs and payments are. So I don't even know how they really operating and how much they have, I guess I could go into their financial reports and sort of see that. And then also, obviously, their motives are to make money. There's they're very much driven by that. And I'll explain more about that in a second. But it seems inevitable that companies are going to focus on money. The good ones try and maintain that core to some degree. So as I just mentioned, if you go on to right now, the Spotify desktop, and look this up, there are 33 words that are up here in this very minimal design, four of them are free. And if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see another two as well. So obviously, they are really trying to emphasize this free factor. But what is Spotify is core, what are they trying to do? What are they, you know, what is their mission in life, their purpose? If I had to guess from that, it's to give away free things. But okay, this, this can't work long term, how is that going to happen? So I wanted to now just talk a little bit about, you know, what can I do as a as an individual and sort of practicality because the the problem with free freeness is, it's a socket to human development. I'm just like everyone else, if there's something free, it pings up on my radar and cycle, I can get something without having to pay a cost that, you know, this is beautiful. This is magic. This is the best of all possible worlds sort of thing. But no, it doesn't work like that. There's always an underlying thing behind that. So for me, I think a mind shift, a mindset shift is somewhat required. Now, this doesn't require immediate action. But when we're looking at I'll relate it back to what I was talking about in episode 52, of podcasting. 2.0, Nikolai, and Africans, they have a somewhat inherent distrust in which I think a healthy amount is it's very good for for anybody. So if a you know, a Namibian is coming up to another Namibian and telling him about this free thing, they're not instantly going, oh, man, that's beautiful. Like what's, how can I get this because I have this little bit of distrust that saying, This guy's probably going to fuck me over. Now. on a large scale, that's really bad. You know, the some of the best indicators that are a country is doing well is the level of trust between citizens because then you can operate and do business and finance and commercial aspects. And you can have assurance that, okay, if I give this guy money, he's going to give me this product, or if there's an agreement it's going to come through. But the problem with that then is you can become too trustworthy. And then that's when the freeness factor can sort of get you and you're like, oh, shit, everything's free all look, goodness, in the world, everything's free. Without under having that mindset that you know what, that's, that's not really true. And I'm paying somehow, and I might not really be liking how I'm paying, this could be a terrible decision for me. So starting with the, the mindset, I think is useful. And just recognizing, hey, there's, there's going to be a cost for everything. The next would be, you know, trying to start identify in your day to day life, where the cost might be how these small moments might not really be that great. So, this is particularly useful for when something is being advertised. Oh, you can get this, you know, extra pizza 25% Free 25% larger for $0 or whatever.
Okay, how is that happening? Like, what what's the underlying basis behind that? If I buy three car tires and get one free? Is that really free? Or is it you know, just a clever little ploy then jacking up the prices of the other three? You know, there's just no I'm finding it more and more useful to try to identify these things in my day to day life and then recognizing, you know what, I don't need to buy an extra cake. Just to be able to get a third one free when you know one is fine. So there's all sorts of little ploys, wrapped up within that. And then this is harkening back to the previous episode, I would also say, you know, start expanding your your generosity, because there are people out there who are doing things amazing, which benefit you. And the cost might be something that they're willing to bear for a certain extent. So for me is, uh, one thing that happened recently in the Bitcoin event, I made sure I went up to Lucas afterwards and said, Hey, I really appreciate everything you're doing here, you know, how can I help? How can I make this better for you? Or do you want, you know, anything? Because doing that is like an a recognition that, hey, this isn't free. Now, maybe he did it out of his own goodwill, maybe has other things behind that.
But you know what, that's also nice for me to go out and verify that in a way. Another one was just today, actually, I've been talking about this for a while that Wikipedia is an amazing resource I've used it for God knows how many years and I've never paid anything for it, not even with advertisements, because I don't believe they do advertisements at all. I'm willing to be corrected on that. But I can't recall seeing advertisements ever on Wikipedia. And I thought, holy crap, this is been one of the most beneficial things ever for me, I've gained so much knowledge, I've learned so much from this. It's not the be all and end all of truth seeking but god damn, it's pretty good. I probably should donate, I probably should give them some value back. And so I did that today for the first time, the fountain app as well, and one of the podcasting 2.0 apps. I've been using it a lot, but I haven't been sending that many Satoshis through it, because I prefer doing that on some of the others. So today, I signed up for their little premium content, I didn't need to do that. There's nothing in there that I've really particularly want. But I've been using the app, and I felt somewhat obligated that, hey, if I want to really maintain this mindset of free isn't free, I need to you implement that in my own actions as well. So, you know, withdrawing your support is another way as well as is recognizing for me Spotify, if I'm not paying for it, somehow, there's there's going to be some consequences for that. And, you know, I'm not super comfortable with whatever it is that they're doing. Because I just don't know, I don't know how that is making money if it's not from, you know, a direct transfer from me, for example. So that's all I have today, some thoughts on why free isn't free. And now this podcast is value for value enabled. And I do want to start giving some shout outs to people who are helping me along with this. So I received a very nice booster gram from Aaron who runs the salah nomics podcast in England. So if you want to know more about hairdressing man, that's the podcast for you. And he sent to me, thanks for the tips I agree with you are either reaching out on social to interact with people. So this is hearkening back to my previous episode, episode three. It's all about putting positive vibes out there not for anyone else's benefit but your own, giving us better than receiving a similar feeling when we got our first review. Hey, thanks so much, Erin. I really do appreciate that. That was 1000 Satoshis sent using curio caster totally agreement, I mean, you know, you're agreeing with my message. So I'm agreeing with myself in a way but that that positivity, that is the first value for value, booster gram. So, you know, you are now in the annals of history. And man, I really do appreciate that man, it's so much fun, your you know, 40 cents or 50 cents Australian, whatever it is that that equates to nowadays, if I just found that on the street, you know, that would have meant nothing to me. I would have walked over it if it was in coins, probably.
And I actually did Yeah, the other day, that was 40 cents laying on the street. I didn't I didn't pick it up. But that message, holy shit, man, that that really means a lot to me, it means so much that you've put that time and effort into it. And for all those others people listening as well. You know, there's so many small things you can do to brighten up someone's day to provide value and to to help out. So that's it for today. If you want to help me you can stream Satoshis while listening to this on any of the a lot of the 2.0 apps I'll give you a little fun fact as well for today. So I recently found out that if you are using an Android Auto car, so car which has Android or Android Auto to connect to if you use podcast addict, you will be able to see the chapter images in that so I tested that out the other day with my co host want on the new models car and I just think that's super cool then he was loving it as well. So a little tip for you there on value for value. I'm always trying to provide some value. So if I can do that in a small way as well that that brings me joy. And other than that, I really hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are in the world. Kyrin out
