I've started to notice some trends of things people get confused about. In Ep#47 we're going to have a look at why V4V is not all or nothing, divorcing it from Bitcoin/Podcasting 2.0 and why it might not work for everyone.
Huge thanks to Nick Malster & Anonymous for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to CSB for educating and helping people understand about the concept of Value 4 Value.
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Huge thanks to Nick Malster & Anonymous for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to CSB for educating and helping people understand about the concept of Value 4 Value.
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
[00:00:00]
Unknown:
Are you confused about V 4 V then let me clear a couple of things up. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Value for Value Podcast. My name is Kyrin your host. I am also the host of the Mere Mortals Podcast, but this is the one where we look at digital content creators and how they can help connect people with the audience and also monetise at the same time. So I will just reiterate that I am live here on a Wednesday at 10 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. If you ever feel like joining me live for these things. And I just wanted to talk today about some common misconceptions that I've been seeing.
So there's three things that really jump out at me, and I wanted to, I suppose, address these and just reiterate why value for value is not these things, because it is easy to get confused because it is a rather confusing subject, but hence why we have this podcast here. So I'm going to go on to the first one, which is V for V is all or nothing. And I've kind of seen this a lot of times where people would say, Yeah, well it's not easy for V if you're doing advertising or it's not V for V, if you're not doing this portion of the show and connecting the feedback loop and all of these things, I think that's helpful in a very, very, very small regard.
But it's very easy to get trapped into, I suppose like a lead ism or thinking, okay, this is the way it has to be done. And so there's no doubt it works best if your product or your show optimises for it, much like it works best for advertising. If your show is built around being a show for advertising, if you leave a break in the middle of the show where it's, you know, this is where the ads would fit in or you create it so that you have like a host rating at the start or at the end, because, you know, this converts to more sales, this sort of thing. Well, I think the value for value is much the same.
So this is where you will do the things like acknowledging the people who have supported you and you know, where do you do this in the show? Well, it doesn't particularly matter or it maybe it does matter, but you can experiment and try and find that out. And so I've come up with a little bit of a spectrum here, which I think goes from, I suppose, the the way that you would monetise your show, I guess for in the most kind of dispassionate disconnect away from your audience all the way to probably the most connected, which I would say is value for value.
So I would go something like this, you know, you would have dynamic dynamically add ad insertions into your show. So there's just random things popping up. Mid-way through your show, you could have then the host raid and then it would maybe be something like an integrated sponsorship. Then it would maybe be something like It's your own business. So you're providing a a product which you have created directly to your audience, so you know all about it. Then it might be something like the paywall and Patron. This is where you're really tipping over in to the listener supporter side of things.
Then it'd be something like Buy me a coffee, and then probably right at the end you would have value for value. And so you could kind of see that, well, it's, it's, it's sort of a spectrum with value for value. The purest form of being all the way at the end. But you can have it anywhere and inserted any, any way along this point of things. So there's no reason that you can't have an ad supported show as well as being able to to do value for value. And so I would actually just recommend checking out any of the Jupiter Broadcasting shows because Chris Fischer has been doing this a fair bit.
You know, he has had advertisers for quite a long while with with his different shows, but he has also very much embraced the value for value mentality, the mindset, and he gets it and he's doing them at the same time. There's no reason that you can't do both. He probably does it the most smoothly out of any of the shows I've seen, which has advertising, and there's many examples of of others where they will have it enabled perhaps, but they don't really talk about it so much. And this would be some of the large Bitcoin podcasts, for example, because this is getting onto the second point of why V4V is not Bitcoin.
That you can kind of see they haven't enabled. You can send them messages, you can boost them in money directly to the show, but they never talk about it. They never acknowledge it. And so this is where, you know, you can still say that it's value for value. Are they optimising for it? Is it the perhaps best experience like we've talked about with the feedback loops, like we've talked about connecting with your audience, like we've talked about why it is such a special feeling? No, obviously not. And obviously the the gains that they will get for that is not as strong as it is when you acknowledge a boostagram and things like this.
So, yeah, I would just say, you know, value for value, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to be 100% gung ho about it. You don't have to be 100%. This is the only way that it's done. You have to do the feedback. You have to read out my messages, that sort of thing. No, it's very much an optional point, but it is not it's not like you have to completely, radically alter your whole show. For example, if you've found out about this concept and you want to try it out, but you're you're kind of like, Oh, but I don't want to do a segment where I, I talk about the listeners or I don't want to read out emails.
I don't want to do all of these things. It's like, okay, that's fine. You can just experiment with it, have it in the background and you can do other things at the same time. So that's probably the first misconception I want to talk about, which I mentioned Bitcoin, and this leads us onto the next one, which is that value for value is not Bitcoin. Now I can kind of get this one why people might think this because a lot of people were introduced to value for value via the payment mechanism, this being the Lightning Network and being able to give and receive Satoshis directly within the podcasting apps because of this whole ecosystem that is growing up from it.
And if you want to know more about that, go back to any of the aspects of I suppose, like this whole season, to be honest, like episode 42, the emergence of podcasting 2.0 or the micropayments in the episode after that, the boosta grams, you know, there's episode 44, there's quite a few ones there. If you want to jump back into those. I think it's good to go back to especially that micropayments episode because you could hear me talk about in that episode how this is not just related to Bitcoin. That protocol allows any cryptocurrency to be used and even Fiat and if you really want it to, but it's more just are people building on that?
Do people actually want to use it this way? And so we can see, okay, the adoption is very much for bitcoin, but there's no reason it can't be other things. And so there's this therefore doesn't mean that value value is Bitcoin like it own. It's only value for value. If if someone sends through a payment in bitcoin wrong. We can see this with no agenda. Once again, the people who Adam Carrion, John C Dvorak, who created the value for value model, they were doing it through PayPal forever for ages, and they were even even using cash, for example. They would, they would give you an address where you could send in a cash donation if you wanted to.
So and people would do that. So we can definitely see. All right, it's not just Bitcoin unless a variation of this, I think, is also just focusing too much on the money aspect of it. You know, remember, value for value is time, talent and treasure. So the time and talent, a pretty big aspects of this and it is very, very I suppose, important to, to realise like, you know, the money side of things is great, but there's also all of these other aspects of people being able to help you of it. You know, if you wanted to say you want to do you know your v4 V your all or nothing in and your V for V all or nothing Bitcoin and you know, what's the best way to actually get more people sending stuff in while it's probably for them to actually be sharing about the show as well to their friends, it's probably of creating a better product by them, helping you out with a talent that they have that you don't have. And so this is where you can see, you know, if you if you focus on the money aspect of it too much, you're going to leave.
Actually, funnily enough, a lot of money on the table because your show won't be as popular, because it won't grow, because you won't have this, you know, people helping you out voluntarily for two to creating it a better product. And then I think also along this vein, all along this kind of fee for V is Bitcoin sort of vein is it's also not podcasting 2.0. So if you want to highlight one app or one method of people supporting you exclusively, I think that's probably the wrong way to go about it preferentially is probably I think that's okay.
You know, if you're giving advice, saying, for example, for this show, I usually just recommend any of the podcasting 2.0 apps or I recommend going to memorials, podcasts, dot com slash support, because there I have a full description of how you can do it in basically any of the various different ways. And I think that's okay. But I'm not going to ever just exclusively say like, now here's one one hip thing I hear, for example, all the time a fountain go to fountain and, you know, send do value for value through there as if that's the only one that you can do.
And yeah, I think that's that's probably the one wrong way to go about it because things change over time. And this is where it's like unless you're keeping on top of it constantly and consistently, it's probably going to change. And then, you know, if you're still repeating, you know, value for value is only done through through fountain, and then Fountain goes down the service, break the, you know, the developers decide they want to move on to something different or they do something with the app that you don't enjoy or your show gets kicked off of there.
You know, for example, they could do that. If they want to do that, it's their application. They they get to choose what is, is and isn't on there. You know, then then you might be just have dug yourself a hole which is is hard for your audience to know. Oh, there's other options to help support this show. So that was the the second common misconception I really see kind of being touted around that value for value is only done through Bitcoin. This is incorrect. And then the last one is that I guess that people won't give me money voluntarily.
So this is kind of a about what I guess the misconception is value for value doesn't work. You know, that's probably the biggest one to be honest. And you can kind of see this where it requires a I suppose, a lot of trust from your audience and you have to involve yourself with them. So if there's no connection to your audience, to your listeners, you won't get your thousand true fans, you won't get that that aspect of being able to support yourself in perhaps a more full time manner from that, which is, okay, maybe you don't want that. You know, probably another misconception is that value for values for everyone.
I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people wouldn't find it on this 1000 true fans topic. So this is a a idea, I guess, created by Kevin Kelly quite a few years ago. And it was basically just saying, you know, if you are a creator of some sort and this is not related to podcasting, this was probably more actually aimed at artists or writers or things like this. He was saying, if you find a thousand people who are willing to send you, you know, $10 a month, that is $10,000 a month, that is, you know, well, what's that, 120,000 over a year? That is more than enough to support your lifestyle, to support you, be able to live in the world and create things.
So so really, you only need to find a thousand people who are willing to give you $10 a month. Or you could even, you know, make it less than that. If you if they're willing, you know, $5 a month, that's still 60 grand a year. That's that's still enough to live on. And so this is where he he was saying, you know, the thing with this so is you have to be deeply connected with these fans because people won't just voluntarily give up five or $10 a month if they're not getting something out of it. And so how do you connect people with those fans? Well, you have to kind of be in there interacting with them. You have to go the extra distance to call them out, to acknowledge them, to thank them.
So it's very much a value for value concept. And he was just saying, you know, a lot of people don't want this. A lot of people just want to focus on their art, the creation of music or a podcast or a book or whatever it is, and they don't want to actually dive into the trenches of building a community, of interacting directly one on one. That's not their skill. So they don't enjoy doing that. They, you know, they would prefer that to have that does as a distance allow Joe Rogan, for example, he very rarely interacts directly with his audience.
And this is where you can go, okay, you know, that's that's fine. You know, value for value is not not for everyone. And this, I guess, is also that if you don't think it works there, there is a kind of psychology behind this and this is where you can go. I you know, I can expect it to work without asking. For example, people will just do it. Well, nothing functions like that. Why why would this you know, if you don't ask for help from people, that they're probably not going to do it. Almost certainly not going to do it unless you get to a ridiculous, ridiculous level and you can just put up a donation link on your Twitter or something like that and then then it will happen.
But there was this guy, for example. It was a it was a year ago. I can't remember his name. It's probably not worth repeating. And he was on Twitter and he was complaining about this. He was saying, you know, value for value doesn't work. I tried it out for, you know, three weeks or something like this. And my you know, your audience is in grateful they're not going to send you money voluntarily. You have to basically force it out of them. You have to wring it out of them like they're a wet towel and and really apply pressure. And you have to do this via pay paywalls.
You have to do this by providing extra content behind a paywall, which only then are they willing to do it and this sort of thing. And what you notice about that is probably he didn't try with with the intent of of really going at it, doing it over three weeks, you're unlikely to to start establishing the it takes time too to really get people in the habit of of helping to support you, of acknowledging and understanding why this is important. And honestly I just thought he was probably a little bit cynical about humanity. This very zero sum ideas of I've got to get my peace thinking or mentality, whereas value for value is very much more a you know, it's not a non-zero-sum game.
If, if you provide something, people will send you money and they will feel good about it and it will, you know, expand the pie rather than you having to kind of steal it from other people. It's it's kind of it's kind of a feeling like, oh, I need to get that money out of my audience to to just, you know, grab it from them. And that requires a bit of force because there's only a certain amount of money in the world. And I think I think that sort of mentality, if that is the way that you think, you're not going to do well with value for value. And this is where value for values is probably not not suited for you.
My last little one here was a story I had of it depends on what type of fans and people that you attract as well and that you want to attract. And so there was this. I've told you stories before about how when I was first podcasting, I was connecting with other podcasters. I was sending them messages up via Instagram. I was leaving them nice, nice reviews of their podcast on iTunes because, you know, when you that's what people seem to want, even though it doesn't really do anything. And what was happening was that I would listen to the podcast, but even if I didn't particularly enjoy it, I would still leave a nice review.
I would still find something nice to say about it, you know? Is that ethical? I have I don't know if I look at it more now and I'm like, it was kind of like a little bit I probably should have just if I didn't like that one, just just pass on and move on. But whatever. That was just the way I do things. And I'm like an I'm an optimistic person. I like to to, to say nice things or, you know, even if the whole thing is bad, I try and focus on the positive. I don't like saying I don't like being me. Anyway, that was this podcast, which was all about kind of Jeffrey Epstein And you know, this was back in 2020 or perhaps even 2019.
And so Jeffrey Epstein was a was a big it was not as big a scandal as it was when it first came out, but it was still just like, you know, this guy's a paedophile, this guy's blah, blah, blah. And it was this podcast of these two women. And they were very bitter. They were they were very kind of cynical, snarky, sarcastic. Nick seemed to have had a relatively popular show. I'm just from the media things that I could see about it and I left a review and I just let them know about that. I was like, you know, Hey girls, I enjoyed this aspect of your podcast.
You know, kudos. Keep going at it. And the response I got back was, Did you just call us girls? And I was like, Yes. And then they just send me a link to something about saying how referring to women as girls is misogynistic, is the patriarchy or something like that just went like, Jesus Christ, if this is how you interact with someone who's trying to be nice to you with, you know what? What kind of reactions are you going to get if you want those people to help you out in the future? And the obvious answer is people like me would would go these what?
How like how grateful can you be? How rude can you be? And so this is definitely a show where it's like, okay, they should probably not be doing value for value because they obviously don't have the, you know, requisite, you know, what would I call it, portion of humanity. The the thinking that is required, the appreciation that is required of your audience to, to do something like that. And so, you know, good values of value work with them and and the type of people that are probably attracted to that show. I would probably say no. And so that is where it's like, okay, is value for value everyone is value for value going to work for everyone?
Probably not. It's probably best that they find some other way of of supporting themselves. So yeah, those were probably the three misconceptions that I see the most popping up value for value is is all or nothing. I think that's incorrect. Value for value is only bitcoin. That is definitely incorrect and value for value is going to work for everyone or it won't work A value for value doesn't work. Incorrect. It it does work. But you do have to have the right mentality for it and the right, I suppose, portion of thinking of of of how you can do this. So yeah, those are some misconceptions.
Cleared up. Bam, bam, bam. Thank you, ma'am. And I probably shouldn't say ma'am, should I? And so that is it for for today's topic. Let's jump onto some to Graham's from last week. So, Mr. Adam, Curry, please. Take it way.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
Welcome to the value for value, Boosta Gram Lounge.
[00:21:19] Unknown:
Okay, so last week was a was a great week. I really enjoyed doing that episode, which I also recorded with the video and you know, it was a good reaction from that one. One thing I do want to acknowledge and thank just before I get into the people who who sent in some boost agrams was I'm not great at social media. I don't enjoy spending my time hanging out there. It's very much, for me, a kind of promotional activity. I put it out there, I blast it out, and if people comment and reply, that's awesome. I will try and get to that. But it's not it's not a place I voluntarily go.
And so, you know, it's very, very much appreciated to everyone who shared the link to to yet to do that kind of work for me because I'm not going to build up a 100,000 or a million follower base or anything because I just don't use them that way. I'm not going to create something like that. People find that interesting. It is going to be pretty much a like an informational alert system. Hey, I'm going live for hey, I've done this thing. Check it out if you want to. So very much, very much appreciate it to everyone who who kind of did that work for me.
You know, talking about time and talent of of sharing the show and doing that super, super appreciated. I even got a comment from void zero on the YouTube video, which is super cool. So that's it's just interacting with these people I've heard about and never had the chance to interact with directly. So super, super cool. Let's get into some value for value and some boosts. And these were actually coming through live. I can't remember if I mentioned them at the time, so I think I did. But Booburry, he sent it to which one was 1770, 76.
I guess that's like a big liberty boost. And he was saying Splitsville life. Yes. And he said, Is there a chat room for another eight, eight, eight, eight? And once again, no, not as of this exact moment. Something I got to work on. Yeah, I've had a big week and I've I've got some family stuff going on as well, which, which needs addressing. So yeah, that all that's taken up my time. I've got another one here from Anonymous saying the chapter images really help with the explanations. 3333 Sat-Sun using pod verse. Thank you very much Mr.
Anonymous, if you want your name highlighted and I put all of these on the main models podcast dot com slash support website as well. We have a big list of their of everyone and anonymous ones gets chucked into the memorial at the the kind of representation of all the unnamed people who help support us. So just a recommendation if you do want a call out in particular please please let me know and I will do that. But yeah, the chapter images I that's why I do them. I think it was definitely for that type of episode, which is a how to one is worth checking out.
And so if you are listening just by now, I would recommend getting a podcasting app where you can see the images because I do put things in. There's the one for this episode is probably slightly less helpful, but once coming up in the future, I'm going to do a one on statistics next episode. And so that's going to have all sorts of graphs, all sorts of things. That's definitely one where you want to have a podcasting app where you see chapter images. I could recommend a fountain, definitely, and Breeze definitely Podcast is pretty good and I think cosmetic.
I haven't actually check that out, but those those ones pretty solid. And then the final one here, the big baller boost for this week was Nick sorry Nick master from Fountain and he says great tutorial Karen you're always so quick to start exploring the new developments within podcast and 2.0 and your educational content is incredibly important for sharing it with others in a way that's easy to understand. For anyone listening, I highly recommend watching the video on YouTube too. And then you send a big 20,000 sets with his own app or fountain.
So yeah. Thank you very much, Nick. I do, yeah. This is one of those shows where I wouldn't say I do content which is non evergreen that often. I would prefer to talk about things which you could come back to 510 years later. But this is one where it's like, yeah, this is what people need to know about why this is important. So yeah, I am willing to put in the kind of ground work and keep on top of these things. So I do appreciate that. And the link for the YouTube video, I'll put it in the show notes as well, but it'll be in the the chapter Chapter links once again, another good reason to get a podcasting 2.0 up so that with the boost for this week.
Thank you very much everyone. Once again this is going to help support this show help support the the hosting costs of this and is also being accumulated with the Me and models podcast you know brand I guess. And so for everyone, if you reach a 100,000 limit, we send you a memo to shirt. So I think Nick will be getting no, I'm not sure how close he will be. It's probably about halfway there now. I think so, Yep. Just a recommendation as well. A little incentive there for you to to boost in a little bit more. And once again, I really do appreciate that and I really would just recommend that, you know, I was proud of that episode about the value for value music.
So now and the and the kind of how to and and how to access it for both musicians and for listeners. So I would definitely just recommend sharing that on with someone if you think this this would be useful for them. So that is the Boosta gram lounge for this week. Thank you very much. And my tips section. This one's not a two solid one. It's kind of just like this is all subjective. It's just like there's no hard and fast rules with value for value. There's no encode of, you know, written in the Tablet of Solomon or of the tablet of Adam Curry and Jack'd.
There's nothing like that. It's there's there's a lot of information and I'll get on to one of those in a second. But you know, this show as well, this is it's one of those moving things which is not that it's it's so easy to to grasp it in a simple manner. You know, I provide value and then you provide it back. What's what can be simpler than that? But the nuances, the details, the misconceptions, all of that sort of thing, you know, if you've got something wrong, if you've heard hear someone else saying something wrong, it's like, it's okay. It's it's just this is this is a natural order of things and you just got to get used to it and and just try and educate us as best as you can.
And, and talking about education. So for my app or service highlight this week, I would recommend checking out value for value dot info. So this is a website I believe created by Adam Curry and it's got a lot of interesting information here on the value for value philosophy. And I would just say this is a great website for those who prefer text because it's all pretty much text based. It's got, you know, pieces written by different people. It's got, you know, the rough numbers, got the philosophy, it's got some guides from pop verse, fountain and podcast index.
It's got how you can contribute to learning more about value for value, about podcasting, 2.0, that sort of thing. So yeah, I would just recommend checking out that if you are or if you know someone who is more of a a learn via the text method of reading rather than listening, which you know, I, I'm not great at writing things out, which is why I do podcasting and so this is just a great thing for those who perhaps would not get much benefit from from my show, from an audio one, but they would get something text based, you know, go to a value value for value info with the number four being being in there.
And yeah, I would just recommend that. And then finally, value for value, my last segment here where I give 15% to someone who I think is worthy of of of a Collette and it's going to be maybe an unexpected one this week and I'm going to send 15% to comic strip blogger CSB and this guy So for those who don't know who comic strip blogger is, he has been following no agenda. The, you know, Adam Curry's stuff for a long, long time. And this guy is just so consistent with his support every week. And it's not just the consistency, it's the, the highlighting of it of, of making sure it actually goes through of, you know, on the podcast and to point I show his the delimiter because he comes in every single week you know with the same amount or even increases the amount over time with a long detailed thought out message.
And just from my, you know, random interactions with him, I don't know him. I have barely interacted with him. But what I would just say is, you know, he always seems to be out and about trying to help educate other people and promoting value for value. The several of my points today were either surfaced or influenced by him. The the one about which one was the Bitcoin one. You know, he was he brought this up on the Mastodon chat not too long ago, which helped give me the idea for this episode. So I do just want to acknowledge people who are doing great things for for value, for value and helping to educate and promote.
And I think he's definitely worthy of a call out and some recognition. So 15% of today's episode goes to comic strip blogger. And I think and very much for his work and everything that he's doing and I'm going to leave it there for today. Thank you, everyone, for joining the Valley for Valley Show. You might have heard, like I'm a little bit sick this week. I was at a wedding, a little, lost a whole lost from Thursday till Monday. So has been a very, very big, long, stressful week for me. So this was a bit of a shorter episode and one which was just kind of an ease in back, back after a pretty hectic time for me.
So I do want to just thank everyone value for value. What is the best thing that you could do for me? You know, what it would be for this week is just, you know, help educate and and let another podcaster know about value for value. So you can do this by sending them a message directly, asking them if there is a way to help support them directly. You know, if they do have a patron on a PayPal, you can maybe say, I don't like using that way. Is there a way of doing it, you know, through a direct contribution to a PayPal account or, you know, just maybe if you think it's it's worthwhile and if you think the ideas would be amenable to them moving them on that scale that I provided further away from perhaps advertising and more to be the full value for value and or some sort of small highlights or something like that.
But yeah, I definitely think that value for value does work for a lot of people, will work for a lot of podcasters and other digital content creators. And yeah, I just the more people that know about it who get to experience it, I think the better it is for everyone because it is definitely, I think the, the more ethical way of, of, of creating a show at least personally. So I'm going to leave it there for today. Thank you everyone, for joining in. As I mentioned, next week's episode is all going to be about statistics and some stats. This will be from podcasting, hosting companies.
This will be about how much value is actually flowing through the value for value method using Bitcoin with the way that we can actually see it. So yeah, definitely one to keep an eye out on for next week. So until then, chao for now, Kyrin out.
Are you confused about V 4 V then let me clear a couple of things up. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Value for Value Podcast. My name is Kyrin your host. I am also the host of the Mere Mortals Podcast, but this is the one where we look at digital content creators and how they can help connect people with the audience and also monetise at the same time. So I will just reiterate that I am live here on a Wednesday at 10 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. If you ever feel like joining me live for these things. And I just wanted to talk today about some common misconceptions that I've been seeing.
So there's three things that really jump out at me, and I wanted to, I suppose, address these and just reiterate why value for value is not these things, because it is easy to get confused because it is a rather confusing subject, but hence why we have this podcast here. So I'm going to go on to the first one, which is V for V is all or nothing. And I've kind of seen this a lot of times where people would say, Yeah, well it's not easy for V if you're doing advertising or it's not V for V, if you're not doing this portion of the show and connecting the feedback loop and all of these things, I think that's helpful in a very, very, very small regard.
But it's very easy to get trapped into, I suppose like a lead ism or thinking, okay, this is the way it has to be done. And so there's no doubt it works best if your product or your show optimises for it, much like it works best for advertising. If your show is built around being a show for advertising, if you leave a break in the middle of the show where it's, you know, this is where the ads would fit in or you create it so that you have like a host rating at the start or at the end, because, you know, this converts to more sales, this sort of thing. Well, I think the value for value is much the same.
So this is where you will do the things like acknowledging the people who have supported you and you know, where do you do this in the show? Well, it doesn't particularly matter or it maybe it does matter, but you can experiment and try and find that out. And so I've come up with a little bit of a spectrum here, which I think goes from, I suppose, the the way that you would monetise your show, I guess for in the most kind of dispassionate disconnect away from your audience all the way to probably the most connected, which I would say is value for value.
So I would go something like this, you know, you would have dynamic dynamically add ad insertions into your show. So there's just random things popping up. Mid-way through your show, you could have then the host raid and then it would maybe be something like an integrated sponsorship. Then it would maybe be something like It's your own business. So you're providing a a product which you have created directly to your audience, so you know all about it. Then it might be something like the paywall and Patron. This is where you're really tipping over in to the listener supporter side of things.
Then it'd be something like Buy me a coffee, and then probably right at the end you would have value for value. And so you could kind of see that, well, it's, it's, it's sort of a spectrum with value for value. The purest form of being all the way at the end. But you can have it anywhere and inserted any, any way along this point of things. So there's no reason that you can't have an ad supported show as well as being able to to do value for value. And so I would actually just recommend checking out any of the Jupiter Broadcasting shows because Chris Fischer has been doing this a fair bit.
You know, he has had advertisers for quite a long while with with his different shows, but he has also very much embraced the value for value mentality, the mindset, and he gets it and he's doing them at the same time. There's no reason that you can't do both. He probably does it the most smoothly out of any of the shows I've seen, which has advertising, and there's many examples of of others where they will have it enabled perhaps, but they don't really talk about it so much. And this would be some of the large Bitcoin podcasts, for example, because this is getting onto the second point of why V4V is not Bitcoin.
That you can kind of see they haven't enabled. You can send them messages, you can boost them in money directly to the show, but they never talk about it. They never acknowledge it. And so this is where, you know, you can still say that it's value for value. Are they optimising for it? Is it the perhaps best experience like we've talked about with the feedback loops, like we've talked about connecting with your audience, like we've talked about why it is such a special feeling? No, obviously not. And obviously the the gains that they will get for that is not as strong as it is when you acknowledge a boostagram and things like this.
So, yeah, I would just say, you know, value for value, it's not all or nothing. You don't have to be 100% gung ho about it. You don't have to be 100%. This is the only way that it's done. You have to do the feedback. You have to read out my messages, that sort of thing. No, it's very much an optional point, but it is not it's not like you have to completely, radically alter your whole show. For example, if you've found out about this concept and you want to try it out, but you're you're kind of like, Oh, but I don't want to do a segment where I, I talk about the listeners or I don't want to read out emails.
I don't want to do all of these things. It's like, okay, that's fine. You can just experiment with it, have it in the background and you can do other things at the same time. So that's probably the first misconception I want to talk about, which I mentioned Bitcoin, and this leads us onto the next one, which is that value for value is not Bitcoin. Now I can kind of get this one why people might think this because a lot of people were introduced to value for value via the payment mechanism, this being the Lightning Network and being able to give and receive Satoshis directly within the podcasting apps because of this whole ecosystem that is growing up from it.
And if you want to know more about that, go back to any of the aspects of I suppose, like this whole season, to be honest, like episode 42, the emergence of podcasting 2.0 or the micropayments in the episode after that, the boosta grams, you know, there's episode 44, there's quite a few ones there. If you want to jump back into those. I think it's good to go back to especially that micropayments episode because you could hear me talk about in that episode how this is not just related to Bitcoin. That protocol allows any cryptocurrency to be used and even Fiat and if you really want it to, but it's more just are people building on that?
Do people actually want to use it this way? And so we can see, okay, the adoption is very much for bitcoin, but there's no reason it can't be other things. And so there's this therefore doesn't mean that value value is Bitcoin like it own. It's only value for value. If if someone sends through a payment in bitcoin wrong. We can see this with no agenda. Once again, the people who Adam Carrion, John C Dvorak, who created the value for value model, they were doing it through PayPal forever for ages, and they were even even using cash, for example. They would, they would give you an address where you could send in a cash donation if you wanted to.
So and people would do that. So we can definitely see. All right, it's not just Bitcoin unless a variation of this, I think, is also just focusing too much on the money aspect of it. You know, remember, value for value is time, talent and treasure. So the time and talent, a pretty big aspects of this and it is very, very I suppose, important to, to realise like, you know, the money side of things is great, but there's also all of these other aspects of people being able to help you of it. You know, if you wanted to say you want to do you know your v4 V your all or nothing in and your V for V all or nothing Bitcoin and you know, what's the best way to actually get more people sending stuff in while it's probably for them to actually be sharing about the show as well to their friends, it's probably of creating a better product by them, helping you out with a talent that they have that you don't have. And so this is where you can see, you know, if you if you focus on the money aspect of it too much, you're going to leave.
Actually, funnily enough, a lot of money on the table because your show won't be as popular, because it won't grow, because you won't have this, you know, people helping you out voluntarily for two to creating it a better product. And then I think also along this vein, all along this kind of fee for V is Bitcoin sort of vein is it's also not podcasting 2.0. So if you want to highlight one app or one method of people supporting you exclusively, I think that's probably the wrong way to go about it preferentially is probably I think that's okay.
You know, if you're giving advice, saying, for example, for this show, I usually just recommend any of the podcasting 2.0 apps or I recommend going to memorials, podcasts, dot com slash support, because there I have a full description of how you can do it in basically any of the various different ways. And I think that's okay. But I'm not going to ever just exclusively say like, now here's one one hip thing I hear, for example, all the time a fountain go to fountain and, you know, send do value for value through there as if that's the only one that you can do.
And yeah, I think that's that's probably the one wrong way to go about it because things change over time. And this is where it's like unless you're keeping on top of it constantly and consistently, it's probably going to change. And then, you know, if you're still repeating, you know, value for value is only done through through fountain, and then Fountain goes down the service, break the, you know, the developers decide they want to move on to something different or they do something with the app that you don't enjoy or your show gets kicked off of there.
You know, for example, they could do that. If they want to do that, it's their application. They they get to choose what is, is and isn't on there. You know, then then you might be just have dug yourself a hole which is is hard for your audience to know. Oh, there's other options to help support this show. So that was the the second common misconception I really see kind of being touted around that value for value is only done through Bitcoin. This is incorrect. And then the last one is that I guess that people won't give me money voluntarily.
So this is kind of a about what I guess the misconception is value for value doesn't work. You know, that's probably the biggest one to be honest. And you can kind of see this where it requires a I suppose, a lot of trust from your audience and you have to involve yourself with them. So if there's no connection to your audience, to your listeners, you won't get your thousand true fans, you won't get that that aspect of being able to support yourself in perhaps a more full time manner from that, which is, okay, maybe you don't want that. You know, probably another misconception is that value for values for everyone.
I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people wouldn't find it on this 1000 true fans topic. So this is a a idea, I guess, created by Kevin Kelly quite a few years ago. And it was basically just saying, you know, if you are a creator of some sort and this is not related to podcasting, this was probably more actually aimed at artists or writers or things like this. He was saying, if you find a thousand people who are willing to send you, you know, $10 a month, that is $10,000 a month, that is, you know, well, what's that, 120,000 over a year? That is more than enough to support your lifestyle, to support you, be able to live in the world and create things.
So so really, you only need to find a thousand people who are willing to give you $10 a month. Or you could even, you know, make it less than that. If you if they're willing, you know, $5 a month, that's still 60 grand a year. That's that's still enough to live on. And so this is where he he was saying, you know, the thing with this so is you have to be deeply connected with these fans because people won't just voluntarily give up five or $10 a month if they're not getting something out of it. And so how do you connect people with those fans? Well, you have to kind of be in there interacting with them. You have to go the extra distance to call them out, to acknowledge them, to thank them.
So it's very much a value for value concept. And he was just saying, you know, a lot of people don't want this. A lot of people just want to focus on their art, the creation of music or a podcast or a book or whatever it is, and they don't want to actually dive into the trenches of building a community, of interacting directly one on one. That's not their skill. So they don't enjoy doing that. They, you know, they would prefer that to have that does as a distance allow Joe Rogan, for example, he very rarely interacts directly with his audience.
And this is where you can go, okay, you know, that's that's fine. You know, value for value is not not for everyone. And this, I guess, is also that if you don't think it works there, there is a kind of psychology behind this and this is where you can go. I you know, I can expect it to work without asking. For example, people will just do it. Well, nothing functions like that. Why why would this you know, if you don't ask for help from people, that they're probably not going to do it. Almost certainly not going to do it unless you get to a ridiculous, ridiculous level and you can just put up a donation link on your Twitter or something like that and then then it will happen.
But there was this guy, for example. It was a it was a year ago. I can't remember his name. It's probably not worth repeating. And he was on Twitter and he was complaining about this. He was saying, you know, value for value doesn't work. I tried it out for, you know, three weeks or something like this. And my you know, your audience is in grateful they're not going to send you money voluntarily. You have to basically force it out of them. You have to wring it out of them like they're a wet towel and and really apply pressure. And you have to do this via pay paywalls.
You have to do this by providing extra content behind a paywall, which only then are they willing to do it and this sort of thing. And what you notice about that is probably he didn't try with with the intent of of really going at it, doing it over three weeks, you're unlikely to to start establishing the it takes time too to really get people in the habit of of helping to support you, of acknowledging and understanding why this is important. And honestly I just thought he was probably a little bit cynical about humanity. This very zero sum ideas of I've got to get my peace thinking or mentality, whereas value for value is very much more a you know, it's not a non-zero-sum game.
If, if you provide something, people will send you money and they will feel good about it and it will, you know, expand the pie rather than you having to kind of steal it from other people. It's it's kind of it's kind of a feeling like, oh, I need to get that money out of my audience to to just, you know, grab it from them. And that requires a bit of force because there's only a certain amount of money in the world. And I think I think that sort of mentality, if that is the way that you think, you're not going to do well with value for value. And this is where value for values is probably not not suited for you.
My last little one here was a story I had of it depends on what type of fans and people that you attract as well and that you want to attract. And so there was this. I've told you stories before about how when I was first podcasting, I was connecting with other podcasters. I was sending them messages up via Instagram. I was leaving them nice, nice reviews of their podcast on iTunes because, you know, when you that's what people seem to want, even though it doesn't really do anything. And what was happening was that I would listen to the podcast, but even if I didn't particularly enjoy it, I would still leave a nice review.
I would still find something nice to say about it, you know? Is that ethical? I have I don't know if I look at it more now and I'm like, it was kind of like a little bit I probably should have just if I didn't like that one, just just pass on and move on. But whatever. That was just the way I do things. And I'm like an I'm an optimistic person. I like to to, to say nice things or, you know, even if the whole thing is bad, I try and focus on the positive. I don't like saying I don't like being me. Anyway, that was this podcast, which was all about kind of Jeffrey Epstein And you know, this was back in 2020 or perhaps even 2019.
And so Jeffrey Epstein was a was a big it was not as big a scandal as it was when it first came out, but it was still just like, you know, this guy's a paedophile, this guy's blah, blah, blah. And it was this podcast of these two women. And they were very bitter. They were they were very kind of cynical, snarky, sarcastic. Nick seemed to have had a relatively popular show. I'm just from the media things that I could see about it and I left a review and I just let them know about that. I was like, you know, Hey girls, I enjoyed this aspect of your podcast.
You know, kudos. Keep going at it. And the response I got back was, Did you just call us girls? And I was like, Yes. And then they just send me a link to something about saying how referring to women as girls is misogynistic, is the patriarchy or something like that just went like, Jesus Christ, if this is how you interact with someone who's trying to be nice to you with, you know what? What kind of reactions are you going to get if you want those people to help you out in the future? And the obvious answer is people like me would would go these what?
How like how grateful can you be? How rude can you be? And so this is definitely a show where it's like, okay, they should probably not be doing value for value because they obviously don't have the, you know, requisite, you know, what would I call it, portion of humanity. The the thinking that is required, the appreciation that is required of your audience to, to do something like that. And so, you know, good values of value work with them and and the type of people that are probably attracted to that show. I would probably say no. And so that is where it's like, okay, is value for value everyone is value for value going to work for everyone?
Probably not. It's probably best that they find some other way of of supporting themselves. So yeah, those were probably the three misconceptions that I see the most popping up value for value is is all or nothing. I think that's incorrect. Value for value is only bitcoin. That is definitely incorrect and value for value is going to work for everyone or it won't work A value for value doesn't work. Incorrect. It it does work. But you do have to have the right mentality for it and the right, I suppose, portion of thinking of of of how you can do this. So yeah, those are some misconceptions.
Cleared up. Bam, bam, bam. Thank you, ma'am. And I probably shouldn't say ma'am, should I? And so that is it for for today's topic. Let's jump onto some to Graham's from last week. So, Mr. Adam, Curry, please. Take it way.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
Welcome to the value for value, Boosta Gram Lounge.
[00:21:19] Unknown:
Okay, so last week was a was a great week. I really enjoyed doing that episode, which I also recorded with the video and you know, it was a good reaction from that one. One thing I do want to acknowledge and thank just before I get into the people who who sent in some boost agrams was I'm not great at social media. I don't enjoy spending my time hanging out there. It's very much, for me, a kind of promotional activity. I put it out there, I blast it out, and if people comment and reply, that's awesome. I will try and get to that. But it's not it's not a place I voluntarily go.
And so, you know, it's very, very much appreciated to everyone who shared the link to to yet to do that kind of work for me because I'm not going to build up a 100,000 or a million follower base or anything because I just don't use them that way. I'm not going to create something like that. People find that interesting. It is going to be pretty much a like an informational alert system. Hey, I'm going live for hey, I've done this thing. Check it out if you want to. So very much, very much appreciate it to everyone who who kind of did that work for me.
You know, talking about time and talent of of sharing the show and doing that super, super appreciated. I even got a comment from void zero on the YouTube video, which is super cool. So that's it's just interacting with these people I've heard about and never had the chance to interact with directly. So super, super cool. Let's get into some value for value and some boosts. And these were actually coming through live. I can't remember if I mentioned them at the time, so I think I did. But Booburry, he sent it to which one was 1770, 76.
I guess that's like a big liberty boost. And he was saying Splitsville life. Yes. And he said, Is there a chat room for another eight, eight, eight, eight? And once again, no, not as of this exact moment. Something I got to work on. Yeah, I've had a big week and I've I've got some family stuff going on as well, which, which needs addressing. So yeah, that all that's taken up my time. I've got another one here from Anonymous saying the chapter images really help with the explanations. 3333 Sat-Sun using pod verse. Thank you very much Mr.
Anonymous, if you want your name highlighted and I put all of these on the main models podcast dot com slash support website as well. We have a big list of their of everyone and anonymous ones gets chucked into the memorial at the the kind of representation of all the unnamed people who help support us. So just a recommendation if you do want a call out in particular please please let me know and I will do that. But yeah, the chapter images I that's why I do them. I think it was definitely for that type of episode, which is a how to one is worth checking out.
And so if you are listening just by now, I would recommend getting a podcasting app where you can see the images because I do put things in. There's the one for this episode is probably slightly less helpful, but once coming up in the future, I'm going to do a one on statistics next episode. And so that's going to have all sorts of graphs, all sorts of things. That's definitely one where you want to have a podcasting app where you see chapter images. I could recommend a fountain, definitely, and Breeze definitely Podcast is pretty good and I think cosmetic.
I haven't actually check that out, but those those ones pretty solid. And then the final one here, the big baller boost for this week was Nick sorry Nick master from Fountain and he says great tutorial Karen you're always so quick to start exploring the new developments within podcast and 2.0 and your educational content is incredibly important for sharing it with others in a way that's easy to understand. For anyone listening, I highly recommend watching the video on YouTube too. And then you send a big 20,000 sets with his own app or fountain.
So yeah. Thank you very much, Nick. I do, yeah. This is one of those shows where I wouldn't say I do content which is non evergreen that often. I would prefer to talk about things which you could come back to 510 years later. But this is one where it's like, yeah, this is what people need to know about why this is important. So yeah, I am willing to put in the kind of ground work and keep on top of these things. So I do appreciate that. And the link for the YouTube video, I'll put it in the show notes as well, but it'll be in the the chapter Chapter links once again, another good reason to get a podcasting 2.0 up so that with the boost for this week.
Thank you very much everyone. Once again this is going to help support this show help support the the hosting costs of this and is also being accumulated with the Me and models podcast you know brand I guess. And so for everyone, if you reach a 100,000 limit, we send you a memo to shirt. So I think Nick will be getting no, I'm not sure how close he will be. It's probably about halfway there now. I think so, Yep. Just a recommendation as well. A little incentive there for you to to boost in a little bit more. And once again, I really do appreciate that and I really would just recommend that, you know, I was proud of that episode about the value for value music.
So now and the and the kind of how to and and how to access it for both musicians and for listeners. So I would definitely just recommend sharing that on with someone if you think this this would be useful for them. So that is the Boosta gram lounge for this week. Thank you very much. And my tips section. This one's not a two solid one. It's kind of just like this is all subjective. It's just like there's no hard and fast rules with value for value. There's no encode of, you know, written in the Tablet of Solomon or of the tablet of Adam Curry and Jack'd.
There's nothing like that. It's there's there's a lot of information and I'll get on to one of those in a second. But you know, this show as well, this is it's one of those moving things which is not that it's it's so easy to to grasp it in a simple manner. You know, I provide value and then you provide it back. What's what can be simpler than that? But the nuances, the details, the misconceptions, all of that sort of thing, you know, if you've got something wrong, if you've heard hear someone else saying something wrong, it's like, it's okay. It's it's just this is this is a natural order of things and you just got to get used to it and and just try and educate us as best as you can.
And, and talking about education. So for my app or service highlight this week, I would recommend checking out value for value dot info. So this is a website I believe created by Adam Curry and it's got a lot of interesting information here on the value for value philosophy. And I would just say this is a great website for those who prefer text because it's all pretty much text based. It's got, you know, pieces written by different people. It's got, you know, the rough numbers, got the philosophy, it's got some guides from pop verse, fountain and podcast index.
It's got how you can contribute to learning more about value for value, about podcasting, 2.0, that sort of thing. So yeah, I would just recommend checking out that if you are or if you know someone who is more of a a learn via the text method of reading rather than listening, which you know, I, I'm not great at writing things out, which is why I do podcasting and so this is just a great thing for those who perhaps would not get much benefit from from my show, from an audio one, but they would get something text based, you know, go to a value value for value info with the number four being being in there.
And yeah, I would just recommend that. And then finally, value for value, my last segment here where I give 15% to someone who I think is worthy of of of a Collette and it's going to be maybe an unexpected one this week and I'm going to send 15% to comic strip blogger CSB and this guy So for those who don't know who comic strip blogger is, he has been following no agenda. The, you know, Adam Curry's stuff for a long, long time. And this guy is just so consistent with his support every week. And it's not just the consistency, it's the, the highlighting of it of, of making sure it actually goes through of, you know, on the podcast and to point I show his the delimiter because he comes in every single week you know with the same amount or even increases the amount over time with a long detailed thought out message.
And just from my, you know, random interactions with him, I don't know him. I have barely interacted with him. But what I would just say is, you know, he always seems to be out and about trying to help educate other people and promoting value for value. The several of my points today were either surfaced or influenced by him. The the one about which one was the Bitcoin one. You know, he was he brought this up on the Mastodon chat not too long ago, which helped give me the idea for this episode. So I do just want to acknowledge people who are doing great things for for value, for value and helping to educate and promote.
And I think he's definitely worthy of a call out and some recognition. So 15% of today's episode goes to comic strip blogger. And I think and very much for his work and everything that he's doing and I'm going to leave it there for today. Thank you, everyone, for joining the Valley for Valley Show. You might have heard, like I'm a little bit sick this week. I was at a wedding, a little, lost a whole lost from Thursday till Monday. So has been a very, very big, long, stressful week for me. So this was a bit of a shorter episode and one which was just kind of an ease in back, back after a pretty hectic time for me.
So I do want to just thank everyone value for value. What is the best thing that you could do for me? You know, what it would be for this week is just, you know, help educate and and let another podcaster know about value for value. So you can do this by sending them a message directly, asking them if there is a way to help support them directly. You know, if they do have a patron on a PayPal, you can maybe say, I don't like using that way. Is there a way of doing it, you know, through a direct contribution to a PayPal account or, you know, just maybe if you think it's it's worthwhile and if you think the ideas would be amenable to them moving them on that scale that I provided further away from perhaps advertising and more to be the full value for value and or some sort of small highlights or something like that.
But yeah, I definitely think that value for value does work for a lot of people, will work for a lot of podcasters and other digital content creators. And yeah, I just the more people that know about it who get to experience it, I think the better it is for everyone because it is definitely, I think the, the more ethical way of, of, of creating a show at least personally. So I'm going to leave it there for today. Thank you everyone, for joining in. As I mentioned, next week's episode is all going to be about statistics and some stats. This will be from podcasting, hosting companies.
This will be about how much value is actually flowing through the value for value method using Bitcoin with the way that we can actually see it. So yeah, definitely one to keep an eye out on for next week. So until then, chao for now, Kyrin out.
