Can you earn a living just through Value 4 Value? In Ep#52 we're going to examine how much I've made across my various shows & where I'd be if I had used advertising instead. Make sure you check the chapter art for all the fancy graphs I've created.
Huge thanks to Adam Curry, Sir Spencer, Gene Bean & Sam Sethi for supporting the show. You are now part of my data hehe.
15% of this episode is going to John Spurlock for his creation of OP3 and giving me handy graphs to use for nerd purposes.
Handy links:
OP3 Website: https://op3.dev/
Steven B On 'Bowl After Bowl': https://bowlafterbowl.com/episode-272/
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Huge thanks to Adam Curry, Sir Spencer, Gene Bean & Sam Sethi for supporting the show. You are now part of my data hehe.
15% of this episode is going to John Spurlock for his creation of OP3 and giving me handy graphs to use for nerd purposes.
Handy links:
OP3 Website: https://op3.dev/
Steven B On 'Bowl After Bowl': https://bowlafterbowl.com/episode-272/
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
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Unknown:
Can you earn a living just through value for value? Welcome everyone to another episode of the Value for Value podcast. My name is Kyrin. Host of the Mere Mortals and Mere Mortals Book Reviews podcast, but also, well, actually also the value for value. And another one called Reseñas in Spanglish, but we'll get on to that soon. This is the podcast for those digital creators who want to have a deeper connection with their audience and also be able to monetise that. And in this episode in particular, we're really going to be focusing on the monetisation.
I've talked a lot about value before, but this time we're going to talk about many, many, many, many, many and whether you could be able to go full time using the value for value model, because I've talked about it a lot but haven't really provided many case examples of people who have gone this full route and whether this is actually the route to try and go full time or if you want to do something else. So we'll we'll look at that in particular. I've got a lot of graphs and I can tell you my personal experience and I've got a lot of data to back up what I'm going to be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jump into it and jump into it. So I think to start off with probably the scariest thing about value for value apart from first starting to ask, which is really uncomfortable saying because it kind of feels like you're begging like, Oh, please, please help support the show. It's it kind of feels like, oh my God, Like, oh, it's it's like I'm begging for it. Once you get over that barrier, which I have talked about in previous episodes, I think the next one is that there's no guarantees. And so it's really a you just have to start start trying and and see how it goes.
And there's no fixed income, there is no contracts, There is no the there's nothing written and set in stone. And so in this case it's like, well, how do you how do I know if it even works? So to start off with, there is one big case example, and this is no agenda, so no agenda is Adam Curry and Jonsi, the work show, which they have done for 16 years now. They started off a long time ago and they have proven that it works. Absolutely. They they do solely value for value. No ads, only supported by the people listeners. They call them producers at home. And they don't have paywalls, don't have anything like that.
And they've been doing it for a long time and have been able to support themselves. And if you go into their show and listen to the amount of donations coming in, it's a fair bit of money. You can go, okay, yes, definitely. These these guys are able to support themselves and their families through this, but they are a huge, huge outlier. I went on a little discovery journey with their show because I didn't actually really enjoy the show that much. It's talking about news and media, which I'm I'm kind of iffy about, don't really care and politics.
And but I was just saying like, okay, how do they stop this off? What was it like for them And just from the get go, you know, you're a huge outlier if you're getting 100,000 listeners per episode before you've even published 50, which is what they had now. They were, you know, both of them were well known, successful before they were doing podcasting, but they were doing it when the podcasting wasn't a saturated market or when there was certainly a lot less people. All of these reasons you can go, okay, they're a bit of an outlier official. And so when I look at other types of shows which have adopted the values for value, a lot of them come from the No agenda sort of nation because they heard about it there.
This is where the model was created. And when I look at them, most of them I would say a kind of hobbyist shows. I haven't found one, but I'm certain that yes, they're doing this full time as well. And so I wanted to know, you know, is this going to work for someone who is wanting to go full time? Will this work for someone who really has a passion for podcasting? And so we'll just live in it to podcasting here and not go into the other types of digital media. If someone is a podcaster and wanting to do this, can they actually go about doing this?
What are some data sets? Do we have any case studies? Can is there any way to kind of predict if this is possible? And so I have decided to do that myself. So I really want to become a podcast. That's the only thing I really want to do, engineering, which is what I used to do, not my cup of tea. I would rather not do that if possible. And so I have give you a little bit of backstory here of my history of of podcasting. So I have four main shows. The first one was mere models, the kind of like flagship one. This is what I started in September of 2019 with my co-host one.
I had another show called Prisoners in Spanglish, which I started in December of 2020, and this was where I would do book reviews, but in Spanish, and I call it Spanglish because my Spanish Spanish is my second night, my second language. I'm not native in it. There was a lot of arms and hours and certainly times where I would just say an English word because I didn't know the Spanish equivalent. I had another show called Me and Models book reviews, which I suppose technically started on February of 2021. It actually started much earlier in terms of producing actual book reviews, but these were in the Miyamoto's feed.
And so it was all of February 2021 where we broke it up. And so once again, I do this with Juan, but I'm I'm the main one. I do most of the reading and that goes into it went into its own feed. And so technically that was when the mad Models book review started. And then the value for value show started. The very one you listening to right now of August of 2021. So those are the four podcasts that I had in an RSS feed. I had another video type one, which was a play around thing, but nothing serious. And so all of these have had the access for ability to for people to boost into the show, to contribute back what has happened across these four shows.
We're now sitting here or the 4th of October 20, 23. So jeez, what a solid two years from all of them at least, and four years from the main me, a modest one. What has happened from that and how would I have compared if I had gone through what you would say maybe is the standard route of advertising. And the good thing for all of you, dear listeners at home, is that I am a nerd. I mentioned I'm an engineer and so I collect data. I really, really like data. And so what have I done? I've collected all of the data from everything that we have received in terms of contributions from from the minimal lights at arm, as well as what we call them.
And the. Yep, I will I'll just start listing off some of this here so you can get an idea. And I wanted to break down I suppose right at the start here, the difference between streaming and boosting and the different payment methods. And so we have focussed very heavily on the ability to do payments through digital money, through Bitcoin. So this is the, the streaming and the boost which I've talked about in previous episodes, and we have only very recently kind of set up a PayPal link for someone to send Fiat money if they wanted to. And so most of all of this data is actually from the boosting because that's, that's what we've focussed on.
That's what we wanted people to do. So value for value once again, is not Bitcoin. It is not sending things through these apps and and online like that. It is people contributing value back. But because we that is what we're focussed upon, That is what we have received. So we actually don't have any free fiat payments to to speak of. And if we had focussed upon that I'm sure, sure we would have. So that's just a caveat there to start with. And this is the numbers. So if you look on your screen now and I would encourage you to get a podcasting app which allows you to do that because there's going to be a lot of data and graphs appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for this would be something like pod fans like Cura. Let's start with mobile pod fans on the mobile. They've got a new progressive web app, which is really cool. I would also encourage you to look on Fountain and on, which is even podcast addict. I know he brings it up. I know pod verse brings it up, breeze brings it up anyway, where you can get chapters and you can see things in your phone would be valuable for, for this. And so if you look on the top box here, I've got as of April 1st, 2023. So this is where I had a big collation of all the data.
And you can see I've split it up into three different shows there. The main models, the book reviews and the value for value. And I've also split it up into the boosting and streaming altogether as of April 1st, 2023, you had about 4.36 million satoshis coming in. And from now on I've been doing these kind of quarterly reports. And so skipping quarter to 2023, we just passed quarter three, which is as as of the end of September. And once again, if you look on your screen there, you can see I've split it up into July, August, September and got a real niche with the details.
How many sets per show or in terms of boosting in terms of streaming, converting this into Australian dollars. What was the total from that quarter? Three, We had 1.26 million and so the first thing that really stands out here is streaming amounts are typically about 10 to 13% of the total that comes in. And the boosting the SES messages or one time payments which someone has sent in are about 87 to 90%. So you can see, okay, most of the revenue is coming in via the boosting. So why is this and I guess I yeah, it's definitely heavily skewed towards it, not necessarily with the messages and and why is this and is this necessarily a good or a bad thing.
The one of the things that got me really into the programmable money the the aspect of people being able to support in the podcasting app which just makes sense if you want to do it, you shouldn't have to go out to different links and click on all these things, like it's best to be able to do it within the actual app. It was all, you know, I could there's this real appeal that people could pay for the back catalogue, as in, I've got all of this, all of these things set up. What if someone is going back and finding the models for the first time that going back to the very first episode and they're listening all the way through, Oh my God, they could.
They could actually, you know, be paying me that whole time as as they're doing that. Isn't that awesome? And that was a thought in my mind. Have I actually seen that? No, no, that doesn't typically tended to happen. And I think perhaps a difference from this is is something like I was thinking of this as as in music royalty. You just create it one time and then you can kind of get paid forever perpetually. Wouldn't that be awesome? As long as it is popular? So what? What's the difference? Is my content just not evergreen enough? Are people just not going back to the very first episodes and listening in?
Are they just. Yeah. Is it just something that's that's not valuable enough to do that? I actually think it's a different reason. I actually think it's because of the mechanisms for for doing this is is actually quite different and that the incentives for people boosting and contributing to the show is is not is not necessarily related to past content. It's more about the current stuff. And so you can ask, okay why do people boost. That's obviously the main thing that's that's driving it. That's driving, I suppose, revenue into the show. If you want to call it value, let's call it that.
And the main reason is because of the feedback loop. And so what you see on your screen now here is just a collection of our four biggest supporters and then also a list of every supporter that who who has contributed to the show of about a thousand sets or more. Those couple of people right on the on the boundary point, who I included in. And so what can you see from this? Well, the collective support is what I've labelled all of the streaming payments coming in. And so this is actually our third biggest supporter in terms of of raw numbers. And we have two people, Peter the Bull, the Booster, the Slav, and Dave Jones, who's been very supportive of my particular show from podcasting to Pono, and then Chris Fisher coming in in the fourth position from Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been, you know, some of our biggest supporters. And if you just tallied up the numbers, if you just look at Dave and Peter together, they are about about half of the amount we've totally we've received in total. I'll talk about the total numbers in the in the next chapter, but there are roughly 3 million sets is about half of what we've received coming in. And this is where it's going. Like, okay, well how should I look at this in terms of like, is this actually one? One of the things I have said about the value for value model is it kind of decentralised?
You know, you're not relying on one particular advertising company that could just pull the rug away at any moment or they go bankrupt or this is one of the aspects about the value for value model, which is is is a nice thing. But then I look at this and I go, Oh, well I've got two people who have contributed half of everything that we've received. Isn't that super risky? And it is, it is kind of. But when I think about this as well, I go, you know, there is now 82 different people who have contributed varying amounts of of of support through to the show.
There was a period where Peter was just boosting and tons and tons and tons as of the like the last six months year he dropped off and you know what actually happened? Other people started to step up. We had other people new time is coming in boosting in. I actually saw a new a new name just boosting into the models literally about 10 minutes to go. And the the thing that works with a value for value is it kind of just works out in the end. Adam talks about this a lot, which is it's kind of frustrating if you if you don't have any data or numbers to back this up because it's like, what do you mean?
It just works out in the end? But, but I think the thing is it works in the sense that if you continue to provide good value, it it will people will step up, People will notice this, they will contribute. And if you ask for it, and if you make it known and apparent that they need to contribute, they will. And I have the numbers to back this up and on. I'll talk about that in a second. So yeah, is it risky? Yes. But I feel like this unequal distribution is always going to occur no matter what you're doing. I'm I'm almost certain it's the same for no agenda there.
Top 510 producers is what they call them. They would be dwarfing the amount of other contributions that they have received. But if it all goes up, then it all goes up. You know, the top boosters, the top people supporting will support more. And then those ones who at the moment are supporting for us, you know, a thousand sets, which is what, 40 Australian cents, something like that, that that can actually change to, you know, 10,000 and then it'll be $4. It's like, oh, okay, awesome. That's, that's cool. That's something new, something interesting. So let's jump onto the next section here, which was okay, It's been about to 2.25, two years and a quarter since I found out about all of this.
So first of all, in terms of like total numbers and things, the four years that I've been doing podcasting with the models, it's only been 2.25 years since we've actually allowed anyone to to send stuff in to us because we were just doing it somewhat as a hobby at the start with getting more serious during the COVID times and realising, yeah, like this is something that at least me personally, that I want to do full time. And one I think in the very future would, would perhaps want to as well. And so it's only been 2.25 years. So since around July of 2021, since we've allowed people to contribute.
And as I mentioned, that was mostly just through the the actual method of and the micropayments within the apps. And it's only the PayPal that we've we've started doing recently. And you can tell it basically captured me straight away this, this micropayment aspect of using Bitcoin to be able to do it within the apps because how we received our first booster Graham payment coming in it was yeah. Around the end of July of 2021 and as I mentioned I started the value for value show in August of 2021. So it was pretty much instantly where I was like, Holy shit, I think this is a game changer and I need to know more about this and create a podcast to help learn for myself and then to to teach other people what this is all about.
So here's a graph down the bottom you can see starting from quarter three of 2021, and then it goes for each quarter. So we've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine data points there. And this is a cumulative graph of of how much with and and so you can see at the very start and we received, you know, about 200,000 sets. Okay. That was that was kind of cool for all four of those payments coming in and then but but you know relatively nothing and then Q4, it's getting to about 500,000. So about the same thing to Q1 of 2020 to 700000.
And you can just see the graph is just steadily becoming higher and higher and and more amounts. And so what I'm kind of hoping to see that this will eventually become exponential. And so as of the end of September of 2023, so as of four days ago, we had received 6,362,678 SATs and total. And this is across all of the various shows because I collate them, I add them all up together. And so what we can see with that is, okay, how much is that 6.3, 6 million sets. That's about the equivalent of 2,800 AUD. So for what, two and 2.25 years worth of of effort, two and a half.
Let's just say three grand, you know, that's certainly not enough to live off. No way. I even as frugal as I am, that's that's not enough to live off. But is this the fault of value for value, though? Or what's going on here? Where would I be if we had actually used ads instead? Because it's important to remember the shows that I have the models, the value for value of the book reviews as of this very moment, you would not describe them as big shows unless you were a new podcaster coming in and being like, Oh my God, how do you get more than three or four downloads per day?
Which I have been well and truly been there. I'm not I'm not receiving like tons and tons and tons of views on or listens to 20 of these. And so I can back this up because I have data for all of these things. So let's start a comparison. We've got a set number 2.25 years. How how would I have compared if I had been using advertising in this time time period? And unfortunately, I won't be able to go that far back because the this comparison is going to be tricky. Whenever you start doing hypotheticals, you have to try and figure out, okay, like what is the the actual number?
First of all, what are the actual numbers themselves? Second of all, how can you compare these numbers? Are they actually going to to be working properly? And and what is, I suppose, the hidden assumptions that you're you're maybe not realising are in the back there. And so with these, with these I'm going to basically give the caveat here. I've moved the podcast around multiple times and so numbers of downloads and things like that have changed dramatically. I've lost numbers from that. So that's the kind of data I haven't been able to collect and it also didn't matter because that data was just, yeah, whatever is just people listening in.
It's kind of more like a popularity thing. It doesn't matter to me as much. And so, well, with the comparison, let's just first start off with what's numbers? What is the is the numbers of downloads that we're getting are they actually real? And so I don't have all of this, as I mentioned, but I can do a little bit of independent verification for at least the memorial show because I have that as and as to sources to be able to get it from. One is from the actual bus throughout the host that I use and one is from this tag called o.P three, which is stands for the Open Podcasting Prefix project, I believe, and this is maintained by John Spurlock, created by him now then what?
What would have been the you know, let's let's compare those two numbers the the podcasting numbers and the the numbers of downloads via bus sprout, which have an incentive to kind of show higher ones because, you know, then my podcast host, they want to show me doing well versus John's which is no it's it's just a thing you put in your feed a tag and he allows him to kind of collect this data and he does whatever magic stuff that he does in the background, I don't know fully, but he's able to get a whole bunch of numbers of how how often your show has been downloaded.
So if you see the two graphs here, they kind of look a little bit different in terms of the amounts of downloads on individual days because they should think they would match up roughly. But what we see in total is that the number of downloads is about the same 7230 different here, 30 different now, doesn't it? Doesn't really matter. So we can definitely see. All right, these numbers seem legit. Let's let's have a look at how much I would have earned through ads through this this time period. And so I'm just taking a the I suppose the time period I'm going to use is that quarter three of 2023, which I was talking about and had real good numbers from.
I'm just that's the only thing that I can really look at and do a comparison. So if I take that for the Miyamoto show, we had about 20,769 downloads for for that month, according to Sprout. If I look at the total numbers that I had of people boosting in and the actual amount of income, it was about 575,000 sets, which was equivalent to about $250 Australian. So okay, that's all right. That's across three months. Once again, it's not liveable off, but it's it's it's got some numbers. It's certainly something now if I wanted to monetise using the bus platform, which they do have in there, this is what it literally says on them.
You'll get paid for the monetised downloads you serve all ads, pay the same 1.5 cents USD per download. You can apply your earnings to future bus invoices, blah blah, blah blah blah blah. So we have a number that 1.4 $0.04 us deeper download this is about right. So that is equal to about a $14 CPM cost per mill, which is the typical metric that they use. I've heard numbers, I've I did a bit of research. Typically it's around that 20 range, that $20 range. Some will be higher, some will be lower. Depends on if you're doing highest reads, depends on if you're doing just a straight up, you know, dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makes about rough sense to me. So we'll just use the number that they have, which I know I could get using using bus prep. So let's do some quick ad math with 20,769 downloads, multiply that by the 1.4 cents per per download and you get to about 291 USD, which would be 455 AUD. So if we're just doing a straight up comparison of of that, a theoretical comparison, you would say, okay, well value for value is not as great. That's about half as great than four for the mere mortal show. I think there's a lot of assumptions in there because they don't.
You're not going to get a with the ad model. You're not going to get a consistent ad placed on each download. So that number will be slightly less. And I think there's a couple of things. But look, let's just say for the moment advertising wins, right? And why are you doing the value for value show? Well, this is just one set of metrics. And let's jump onto the other main show, which I've been earning revenue from, which is the value for value show. And so similar deal here, we'll look at these stats from July, August and September that just passed of 2023.
So this show is considerably smaller than the models. We had about 3000 listens, 3008 to be exact, listens across this time period once again, because this is on blueberry, a different hosting platform. I don't know if they have ads support like like Buzz Sprout did. I didn't I didn't see it in my quick research. Let's just use the same number of that 1.4 cents per download. This is equal to about 42 USD, which is about 66 AUD. Now, how did I do with the boost in streaming? Well, significantly more. I got 665,000 from the sets coming in, which is about 283 284 AUD.
So okay, well, what's going on there this time? Value for value is is four times as much. How do you work this out? What's the what's what's changed? You know, and I think this is where I'll just end off my my case study in my comparison here by just saying my little summary. I guess. So which method is better? Which if you're going to go, if you had to choose between one like only value for value and only adds, my general takeaway would be if you've got a smaller show, I probably would say value for values is going to work best. I would almost certainly say value for value is going to work best.
Advertisers are not interested in doing advertisements on small shows. It's too hard to monitor. It's too hard to make sure that the ads are being served correctly, and the amount of people just listening just doesn't make sense for them to do that. If you have a small niche show related to a topic that you particularly love and there is only an addressable market of, you know, a thousand people in the world who are interested in this topic and which is kind of what you can do with podcasting. I saw a show recently which was highlighted for its uniqueness, which was the amount of water being wasted in food production, and it was someone going on a deep dive to figure out how much water is being wasted.
You know, that's an incredibly, incredibly niche podcast. Are they going to be able to get millions of downloads for for people listening into that unlikely, but there would be some people who would be really interested in that show and I think would be willing to contribute to that show. If you created one which was fascinating enough for people to to listen to. So typically what I would say is I think that small shows value for value easily wins and that that is the correct way to go. If you're getting to a medium sized show like the Me and Models, you're probably going to have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again, we've chosen a very niche path of of saying like, you know, come support us through the these new apps, come support us using Bitcoin. It's it's hard. It's difficult. And so with a broad show like that, like we have there, which is addressed more to a a broader audience because of the way we've done it, we've we've certainly made it harder. If we had used PayPal from the very start, I'm almost certain that that number would have been closer to the ad section to the to the ad numbers. So, you know, instead of having only received 246 four for that quarter that we just passed would be closer to the 455 that theoretically we could have got through ads.
So I think the for kind of like a medium show like us, which is getting, you know, roughly 100 to 300 downloads per episode or something like that, I would say, you know, either's kind of good. Just take your pick which one you want to do when you're getting up to the really, really large shows. This is where I'm once again, you know, I'm kind of having to go based on feel now, even though John, John C Dvorak and Adam Currie can do it, they've got a super, super large show. They're getting close to a million downloads per episode. I would say they would probably make more if they just went through the advertising group because you can just if with a show like that, it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's, there's a tension, there's attraction coming in. I feel like you could kind of negotiate that to it to a higher level than what they're receiving now the pay you know what would be the the downside to that is well, they would have responsibilities in terms of advertisers that would have to make sure that they're not saying certain things that would perhaps go against the advertisers. This is where I think you encounter a lot of the problems, which I see with with advertising model is, you know, self-censorship, relying on that one or two big advertisers to support your show of just trading, I guess, security of having you know, you almost certainly know how much you're going to get per month using advertising because they have these guarantees like you're guaranteed to get this at the least, this much more perhaps if certain episodes do better.
And then that's where it's like I think I think that probably you'll earn more, but you're going to have to decide on the trade offs for that. Do you feel comfortable putting ads in front of your show? Are you willing to do lots of meetings with advertisers to make sure that they're happy with how the show is performing and all of these sorts of things? So yeah, that's that's just one section there. I also see one in the chat here saying Devil's advocate, if for those 2.25 years we had instead focussed on advertising and not boosting, so then targeting our show to popularity, I guess in the short term it's likely we could have gotten more money.
But at what cost in the long run is my answer. So in that case, yes, you're if you are creating a show and and you're making it and you want to create the most money from advertising, it does need to be niche to a certain audience because certain audiences are more likely to spend. I think the the most desirable is about I think it's young men from 20 to 35 is the biggest spender category. And then probably after that would be young women and then after that it would be like older generations. I think that is the and yeah, there's a whole lot of things that go into this. So.
Oh, I won't, I won't dive down that rabbit hole because that that's a deep one. I could, I could talk about that for a while. So we'll leave it at that for the moment and instead let's go on to some, to Graham's Welcome to the Value for Value Booster Graham Lounge. I've got a couple of things coming in here because I've got a live one in. I got to call them out. Thank you very much. Adam Curry got the bat signal and he sent 10,000 SATs sent using pod verse. Thank you very much, Adam. So yeah, maybe he can comment in and and tell me if he thinks if, if he had gone through advertising and assuming he'd gotten the same amount of people listening to a no agenda, which he almost certainly wouldn't have because the advertiser would have started to, it would have drove away other people and drawn in certain others.
But let's just assume he got the same amount. I would love to know. I would love to know if if he thinks that he would have earned more just in straight up numbers through advertising. Obviously the value for value model relies on so much more and relies this so much more value which is not captured monetarily in this easy form, but which actually is valuable. People creating a website. People like this. Peter the Slav who sent me in this this document which I still use for my chapters, and I would have had to pay someone to like create some coding or do some things to be able to just copy and paste stuff, you know, is it saving?
It's it's money, but it's an A, it's a different form. And so it's very hard to capture. But yes, thank you very much, Adam. So, yes, as a reminder of everyone, I am live as of 10 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday, which is UTC midnight. Wherever you are in the world on that Tuesday and Wednesday. So just plus or minus your your time zone from the universal coordinated time, you I would say UTC and yeah yeah that would be the way to to join in life and send in a boost live just like Mr. Adam Curry the father has done there. Let's jump back into the previous booster Grahams.
We've got Sam Sethi making a whole bunch of payments sent through pod fans. Once again, check out the progressive Web app because you will get at the live bat signal if you are if you have if you're a fan of the mere mortals or of the sorry, if you're a fan of the values of our show, you will definitely get that out and get that that app is it's going to do some cool things. So this is already very slick to play around with it the other day and yeah, looking very, very nice. We also have here Gene, being from the last show from the volunteer technologists which I talked about and highlighted his chat with Mitch is now out.
Please check it out. It's it's very fascinating. It says great show and thanks for the shout out 2222 sent using custom medic. Thank you very much Gene my man Much appreciated We've got here Sir Spencer who is of the the wolf of I think he calls himself the Wolf of Kansas City. Yeah that's it. Who from ball after bowl. He says appreciate it the self hosting Shout it. Anyone can do it if they decide they want to 6969 Neon sent using pod verse. He loves the meme numbers. He does and at using pod verse. Of course, the the open source app, which I was talking about.
And then this is one where it's it's I, I struggle with this and so I probably say something's wrong sometimes and so he's, it's got another boost sent in here once again 6969 using pod verse Thank you. And he says, I think many people who are technically inclined still identify it as non-technical just because they're more advanced, just because there are more advanced areas or aspects of tech we use that we don't fully understand. Hearing you identify as non-technical is like hearing someone who changes their own oil saying they're not a big car guy because they can't rebuild an engine.
And then he's got the emoji with the beta sweat on it. You've been you've been out here running with scissors too, and every day is a learning experience. You're a technical guy, whether you believe it or not. Karen So thank you. Thank you very much. I think that's a compliment. Thank you. Thank you. Spencer. My problem, I suppose, is my my way of communicating my dislike of of of problem solving when it comes to technology, I find it incredibly frustrating. I find it almost anxiety producing at times, to be honest, because it feels very hidden behind the scenes.
Like what? Why is this thing that was working has suddenly stopped? For example, the USB port on my laptop has suddenly stopped working. I try to do a bit of a fix in case it was a drive, a thing that didn't work. But there's still options that it could be or it could be a an actual hardware default. Some dusters got in. I don't know. What do I do with that? I don't like that experience. That pisses me off to no end. So when I say non-technical, I what I mean is I don't have that intuitive talent nor the desire to fully dive down into these things.
But yes, in a in a way I am because I obviously have gotten very deep into the booster cramming, all of these sorts of things which other people would say are no, and that's super technical. I could never be able to do that. So I yeah, I do appreciate that. I suppose it's the paradox, the paradox of life that even though I don't feel like I am, perhaps I perhaps I actually am. But in any case, he had actually just a great chat with Steven Bell from Cure Costa of the Music Side Project of the Split kit of Ellen Beats Fame. So the guy who I was talking about really on the Value for Value Music episode because he does so much, he had a great chat with him and they talked a lot about coding and this kind of aspect of of trying to do things for yourself, self hosting.
And yeah, I would recommend checking that out. Oh, I'll put a link in this episode. And then he says, Have you heard No agenda, no brand will advertise with us and we would have been Demonetised years ago. 10,000 That sent using podcast. I have, I have Adam. I've tuned into a few episodes. Yeah it's this is I guess the tricky thing, right with the, with the ability to to try and do these theoretical numbers. You know I came up with some numbers just before of 245 versus 455. That 455 is it's a it's a vapour, it's a wisp of air. It's it's not a real tangible thing.
It's a it's a guesstimate. And I it could very, very wildly I've heard advertising rates being double that 1.4%. So does that mean that that number should be doubled? And I've also heard it be significantly less and I'm assuming it's being on this end as you as so many assumptions that come into this. This is where I would probably maybe recommend for someone who is. All right, the starting of the podcast for the first time. And they they're really enjoying it. Perhaps they're getting some listeners coming in and they're like, okay, well, I would love to at least recoup some of the costs of hosting and things like this. What should I do?
I would definitely recommend, you know, attempting value for value at the very least. And I'm going to talk about my tips section about how you do that. And this is where, you know, where we're on onto the tips section. So you shows will do better if you adopt certain tactics and if you do certain things. Now, you heard me mentioning before, and if you looked at the graphs, you'll see the current West End is in Spanglish. You said you had four shows, but you only you only put in boosting amounts for three of them. Well, if you look at the dates of things.
So the first the first boost to Graham we received received from Chad f was on the Yeah. That end of July period of 2021, I stopped the craziness in Spanglish right around that same period. It was July August of that of that same year. So what had been happening was obviously I was doing a show not as Innocent Spanglish, the book reviews, but I never mentioned the boost branding or any of the value for value stuff because I didn't even know about it. I had never heard of it before. So even though I subsequently later put in the value block and had the ability for people to boost and I never talked about it, so I never got a single cent, I never got a single Satoshi from from anyone doing that. So what you will notice is that for value, for value to really work, you have to adopt certain tactics and certain things will will work better and incentivise people to come in.
Much like Adam was saying here, you know his show, No Agenda. It got very popular because they have no agenda, they don't have advertising, they don't have people telling them what they can and can't say whether it be in a strong form or a very soft form. They don't have that. And so the tactics that they have come up with or tactics perhaps even is a strong word, the the natural progression of their show turned into things that would enable people to to boost it up, to boost and to to send money to send value to their show. And so what are the some of these things? Well, look, the book reviews, I didn't even bother to do any graphs or things related to that.
Why It's because I've received so little from that. And then you can go, okay, well, why have you received so little from that card? Well, this is how I have done the book reviews in the past. I would pre-record it so it would usually be recorded a week or two in advance because it required me actually reading the book and keeping on top of this is rather hard. So I would just post it out. I would have the call to action at the end. Hey, please boost into the show if you want to. Like if you if you got value from this. But I never had any real good feedback loop.
And so I started doing this live one that I would do once a month that the recap where I could address all the booster Grahams that had received in that past month. Now is this great for incentive for people to boost in? Well, not really because they'll boost in. And then it's only a month later that I'm really talking about it. So what I would say here is some of the tips for for someone who is creating value for value. So, number one, first you have to ask, make sure you ask and make sure that you let people know that it's a value for value so they can send in however much they want to.
And we're just focusing on the treasure aspect here, the money aspect of it. Make sure that you ask and make sure that people know how to do it and that they can send in whatever amount they want that they value. That is a critical one. You need to make the the feedback loop as tight as possible. And so when they, you know, boost in or when they send in a PayPal or whenever they do something, they're sending you in cash or whatever the acknowledgement should come in the next episode if possible. And so this is where having a really tight feedback loop is is best.
So you still can prerecord, but it's better to pre-record, you know, one day in advance instead of two weeks like I was doing for the book reviews. Another one live is a really weird motivator. We just seen Adam Curry here boost in a whole bunch, and I can see him also streaming and payments at the same time, which is really, really cool. If you look at things like twitch streamers or even those NPC live streamers that you seen on Tik Tok, which I find so fascinating, has such a cool subject subgenre. And so this is where it will be a girl with a camera in front of her and people will send in a it's like an emoji.
It's like a reaction, which actually she can exchange for money. And so if they send an ice cream on, she goes, ice cream. So good, yum, yum, yum. And obviously this is, you know, what is the value that people are getting from that? Well, it's because it's live. They do some action and someone on the other side of the world responds to that and does something with me. It was with Adam just right now. It was me talking about his show. It was me talking about something that he messaged me super, super cool. And it's the same it's the same aspect that's going on with these live streamers, these twitch's twitch people and stuff.
There's just something about the live experience which which people really enjoy. And so then we go live is is another one, I think creating a better show, making it more easy to for people, easier for people to to boost in, to contribute to the show. So having the funding tag within your actual show nodes doing, having the value blocks is set up so that if someone is listening via a podcasting app, they can do it directly within the app. All of these things creating better show with chapter art and images and things like this. I think all of that is very useful, essential as well.
And then the final one, consistency is critical as passive income. I'm I'm coming to the conclusion that passive income is a largely a myth just because you create a show which has evergreen content, I don't think that means that you're going to get people going back and listening, much like music royalties, where if you create one really big show, one really big hit, you can live off that for the rest of your life. I'm not sure the same will work in podcasting. I don't think that the intangible qualities that music have of people just listening to something like 5100 times in a row, which I have done with certain songs, I don't think the same is going to happen with podcasting and a podcast episode, no matter how viral it goes, no matter how interesting that one episode is, I don't I don't think that that passive income, you're going to get the same as perhaps you could with a a hit a music hit, a song which just really, you know, something like Stairway to Heaven, which is just going to it's it's stuck around for so long. So in this case, the consistency is you have to keep doing it.
You have to keep putting out a show, as Adam Curry has done for six years, with no agenda, as I have basically been doing with my three or four shows for, well, three shows now that a person is is no longer active for a long time. And so yeah, that's that's another one. The The passive income I think is is largely a myth the app and service highlight for for today. Let's jump onto that let's wrap this up if you haven't used OPI three, I would definitely recommend checking it out if you want to see the statistics and real granular things. So if you once again, if you check out your chapter right now, there's all sorts of things that he's got going on there.
He's got the what was this called? It was like the episodes over time. So you can really see how the episodes are performing. Typically you'll see it like really shoot up straight away and then have this long, long tail of people gradually listening in. He's got such detailed statistics there of, you know, which apps are people using, where are they listening from in the world? Which certain countries are once again talking about non-technical? I don't know how he gets all of this stuff, but he does. The the thing with all of this is you, it's a o.p three dot dev is way you should go to to check out more.
And it provides all sort of free data because it's open. So once again, you have to be comfortable with someone coming and looking at that. And because anyone can look at it, this data is out in the open. So once again open source check out the last episode. So what I would say, ask your host to put in the necessary permission into your RSS feed. It's actually relatively simple, and I think most hosts would be willing to do that and it can yet just get into real granular info. So I would recommend checking that out. I've just got a comment here from one Disagree.
Passive income from podcasts works very well for large podcasters out there with evergreen content. Tim Ferriss has talked about this in the past with some of his older podcasts. Okay, I didn't know that. Perhaps that's the exception, not the rule. Also, the reposting of old content, say five years later with no edit. Does that count as passive income? Yeah, I get kind of it's it's not. Yeah, it's not an active effort but certainly it's older stuff which I guess you could. Yeah. Yeah I'll, I'll, I'll allow it. I'll allow it one.
So yeah I suppose that's a, that's an idea as well there. If you, if you just repost old stuff that kind of can play into that consistency aspect. But yeah. Look. Well just from our numbers I can say people have not been boosting older episodes. It's, it's, it's episodes which are the current the recent ones. Yeah. Well we'll have to see. We'll have to grow our show bigger and then be allowed to do that. Let's, let's wrap it up here. Value for value. Who am I going to give 15% to this episode? I'm going to give it to John Spurlock for for creating the open three dot dev.
He does a lot of I have used some of his graphs before such in the the podcasting 2.0 ecosystem that episode is it growing. I used a couple of his graphs and now obviously I put in run four for that episode. So this is kind of a little good for that as well. And yeah, he, it's in podcasting 2.0 value for value. It only works when tons of people are contributing when we all get together. I know this episode has been very much focussed on the money aspect which people certainly are interested in, but the whole show, this whole show is very much about other the other aspects of that, the connection with your audience, it's about the different ways that people can contribute.
It's about, it's, it's about totally changing your mindset away from extractive value of people need to get this it's a zero sum game to a a non-zero-sum game. We cannot the pie can grow and we can all be happier and better. So final thoughts from this Just for me. Obviously I'm not at this stage yet where it is a full time income. I'm going to work as hard as I can to make that happen. And if if after like ten years I haven't made it, I'll have to just admit, like, you know what? I just wasn't able to create enough value for for people for this to become a full time thing.
And podcasting will would therefore remain a hobby for me. But I'm going to fucking try really hard. And what I've found from just my own personal life is typically when I tend to stick with things and I stick with them for years and years, I get better at it. And, and it does tend to just all work out in the end. So thank you very much, everyone, for for joining in time, Talent and treasure. I would say sharing this episode with the digital creator, well, particularly with a smaller podcaster, I think would be immensely valuable for them. Just so they can get some rough numbers, they can compare that to where they're at.
All of this is rough, of course. And but and know it's niche. It depends on your show and all of that sort of thing. But I think just having some numbers sometimes can can help people out. And then obviously coming and joining in live like Juan and Adam, it is super, super fun talent. Is there anything I can do to make this show better? One was just say of the audio quality is crisp, clear, which is great because I have been working on that, have been also working on fixing up my studio, getting a little bit more soundproofing. No, still soundproofing.
What's it called? There's a word for making it not completely soundproof, but for just reducing reverb and echo and all that sort of stuff. Resources that are similar to the overlap of these book recommendations. Anything that I've said that spark some ideas topic suggestions you would like me to cover, please send those in via Instagram. I would really love that. Or you can reach out via any of the social links that are down below as well. And then finally, the treasure. Look, of course I have to talk about the podcasting apps and the booster grams.
That's that's the main thing that I've been talking about. So new podcast app stock com or if you go to Miyamoto's podcast dot com slash support I've got a little explanation there of of how you can use a new podcasting app to to help support into the show. If you don't want to do that if you don't want a new podcasting app if you go to the podcast index website and and boost in there that will value all of the splits that I'm putting up. And so that would be awesome. So check out value for the number four value on the podcast index website, or you can do it to me directly at CAR and I get all VidCon.
I'd prefer you wouldn't do that because I want to to send the value on to everyone else who are in my splits. But if you have to, you can also do it there and yeah, yeah. Well we'll leave it at that a couple of just little make goods as well. I misspoke the other week there. As of now there are four episodes left of this season. I will then probably take a small short break, maybe a month, maybe less, and then get back into it for season four, because I am really, really enjoying doing these Valley for Value episodes. And there was another clarification from the Ipfs podcasting.
I said that your favourite a feed. I'm sorry I said that your favourite an episode on that. I meant that you favourite feed. Just a random little clarification there but yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for everyone Adam and Swan for joining me in live. Very, very cool. I much appreciate it and I would yeah just leave it there to next week's episode is going to be it's going to be a bit of a different one. I'm not exactly sure how it's going to work in terms of the live component because I'm going to be using my phone to really I want to do like a showcasing of all of these different apps and their features.
Bruce Diagramming how you can do what it kind of looks like. So it's going to be very much dominant on the video aspect, which obviously I can't do here on a live audio show. So there'll be a video that will come out afterwards. So that one it will be talking about the the apps themselves and some of these comparisons and things like that. So yeah, a little heads up there for what to expect and yeah, I really hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are in the world. Thanks for joining me for this longer episode Chao for now, Kyrin out.
Can you earn a living just through value for value? Welcome everyone to another episode of the Value for Value podcast. My name is Kyrin. Host of the Mere Mortals and Mere Mortals Book Reviews podcast, but also, well, actually also the value for value. And another one called Reseñas in Spanglish, but we'll get on to that soon. This is the podcast for those digital creators who want to have a deeper connection with their audience and also be able to monetise that. And in this episode in particular, we're really going to be focusing on the monetisation.
I've talked a lot about value before, but this time we're going to talk about many, many, many, many, many and whether you could be able to go full time using the value for value model, because I've talked about it a lot but haven't really provided many case examples of people who have gone this full route and whether this is actually the route to try and go full time or if you want to do something else. So we'll we'll look at that in particular. I've got a lot of graphs and I can tell you my personal experience and I've got a lot of data to back up what I'm going to be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jump into it and jump into it. So I think to start off with probably the scariest thing about value for value apart from first starting to ask, which is really uncomfortable saying because it kind of feels like you're begging like, Oh, please, please help support the show. It's it kind of feels like, oh my God, Like, oh, it's it's like I'm begging for it. Once you get over that barrier, which I have talked about in previous episodes, I think the next one is that there's no guarantees. And so it's really a you just have to start start trying and and see how it goes.
And there's no fixed income, there is no contracts, There is no the there's nothing written and set in stone. And so in this case it's like, well, how do you how do I know if it even works? So to start off with, there is one big case example, and this is no agenda, so no agenda is Adam Curry and Jonsi, the work show, which they have done for 16 years now. They started off a long time ago and they have proven that it works. Absolutely. They they do solely value for value. No ads, only supported by the people listeners. They call them producers at home. And they don't have paywalls, don't have anything like that.
And they've been doing it for a long time and have been able to support themselves. And if you go into their show and listen to the amount of donations coming in, it's a fair bit of money. You can go, okay, yes, definitely. These these guys are able to support themselves and their families through this, but they are a huge, huge outlier. I went on a little discovery journey with their show because I didn't actually really enjoy the show that much. It's talking about news and media, which I'm I'm kind of iffy about, don't really care and politics.
And but I was just saying like, okay, how do they stop this off? What was it like for them And just from the get go, you know, you're a huge outlier if you're getting 100,000 listeners per episode before you've even published 50, which is what they had now. They were, you know, both of them were well known, successful before they were doing podcasting, but they were doing it when the podcasting wasn't a saturated market or when there was certainly a lot less people. All of these reasons you can go, okay, they're a bit of an outlier official. And so when I look at other types of shows which have adopted the values for value, a lot of them come from the No agenda sort of nation because they heard about it there.
This is where the model was created. And when I look at them, most of them I would say a kind of hobbyist shows. I haven't found one, but I'm certain that yes, they're doing this full time as well. And so I wanted to know, you know, is this going to work for someone who is wanting to go full time? Will this work for someone who really has a passion for podcasting? And so we'll just live in it to podcasting here and not go into the other types of digital media. If someone is a podcaster and wanting to do this, can they actually go about doing this?
What are some data sets? Do we have any case studies? Can is there any way to kind of predict if this is possible? And so I have decided to do that myself. So I really want to become a podcast. That's the only thing I really want to do, engineering, which is what I used to do, not my cup of tea. I would rather not do that if possible. And so I have give you a little bit of backstory here of my history of of podcasting. So I have four main shows. The first one was mere models, the kind of like flagship one. This is what I started in September of 2019 with my co-host one.
I had another show called Prisoners in Spanglish, which I started in December of 2020, and this was where I would do book reviews, but in Spanish, and I call it Spanglish because my Spanish Spanish is my second night, my second language. I'm not native in it. There was a lot of arms and hours and certainly times where I would just say an English word because I didn't know the Spanish equivalent. I had another show called Me and Models book reviews, which I suppose technically started on February of 2021. It actually started much earlier in terms of producing actual book reviews, but these were in the Miyamoto's feed.
And so it was all of February 2021 where we broke it up. And so once again, I do this with Juan, but I'm I'm the main one. I do most of the reading and that goes into it went into its own feed. And so technically that was when the mad Models book review started. And then the value for value show started. The very one you listening to right now of August of 2021. So those are the four podcasts that I had in an RSS feed. I had another video type one, which was a play around thing, but nothing serious. And so all of these have had the access for ability to for people to boost into the show, to contribute back what has happened across these four shows.
We're now sitting here or the 4th of October 20, 23. So jeez, what a solid two years from all of them at least, and four years from the main me, a modest one. What has happened from that and how would I have compared if I had gone through what you would say maybe is the standard route of advertising. And the good thing for all of you, dear listeners at home, is that I am a nerd. I mentioned I'm an engineer and so I collect data. I really, really like data. And so what have I done? I've collected all of the data from everything that we have received in terms of contributions from from the minimal lights at arm, as well as what we call them.
And the. Yep, I will I'll just start listing off some of this here so you can get an idea. And I wanted to break down I suppose right at the start here, the difference between streaming and boosting and the different payment methods. And so we have focussed very heavily on the ability to do payments through digital money, through Bitcoin. So this is the, the streaming and the boost which I've talked about in previous episodes, and we have only very recently kind of set up a PayPal link for someone to send Fiat money if they wanted to. And so most of all of this data is actually from the boosting because that's, that's what we've focussed on.
That's what we wanted people to do. So value for value once again, is not Bitcoin. It is not sending things through these apps and and online like that. It is people contributing value back. But because we that is what we're focussed upon, That is what we have received. So we actually don't have any free fiat payments to to speak of. And if we had focussed upon that I'm sure, sure we would have. So that's just a caveat there to start with. And this is the numbers. So if you look on your screen now and I would encourage you to get a podcasting app which allows you to do that because there's going to be a lot of data and graphs appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for this would be something like pod fans like Cura. Let's start with mobile pod fans on the mobile. They've got a new progressive web app, which is really cool. I would also encourage you to look on Fountain and on, which is even podcast addict. I know he brings it up. I know pod verse brings it up, breeze brings it up anyway, where you can get chapters and you can see things in your phone would be valuable for, for this. And so if you look on the top box here, I've got as of April 1st, 2023. So this is where I had a big collation of all the data.
And you can see I've split it up into three different shows there. The main models, the book reviews and the value for value. And I've also split it up into the boosting and streaming altogether as of April 1st, 2023, you had about 4.36 million satoshis coming in. And from now on I've been doing these kind of quarterly reports. And so skipping quarter to 2023, we just passed quarter three, which is as as of the end of September. And once again, if you look on your screen there, you can see I've split it up into July, August, September and got a real niche with the details.
How many sets per show or in terms of boosting in terms of streaming, converting this into Australian dollars. What was the total from that quarter? Three, We had 1.26 million and so the first thing that really stands out here is streaming amounts are typically about 10 to 13% of the total that comes in. And the boosting the SES messages or one time payments which someone has sent in are about 87 to 90%. So you can see, okay, most of the revenue is coming in via the boosting. So why is this and I guess I yeah, it's definitely heavily skewed towards it, not necessarily with the messages and and why is this and is this necessarily a good or a bad thing.
The one of the things that got me really into the programmable money the the aspect of people being able to support in the podcasting app which just makes sense if you want to do it, you shouldn't have to go out to different links and click on all these things, like it's best to be able to do it within the actual app. It was all, you know, I could there's this real appeal that people could pay for the back catalogue, as in, I've got all of this, all of these things set up. What if someone is going back and finding the models for the first time that going back to the very first episode and they're listening all the way through, Oh my God, they could.
They could actually, you know, be paying me that whole time as as they're doing that. Isn't that awesome? And that was a thought in my mind. Have I actually seen that? No, no, that doesn't typically tended to happen. And I think perhaps a difference from this is is something like I was thinking of this as as in music royalty. You just create it one time and then you can kind of get paid forever perpetually. Wouldn't that be awesome? As long as it is popular? So what? What's the difference? Is my content just not evergreen enough? Are people just not going back to the very first episodes and listening in?
Are they just. Yeah. Is it just something that's that's not valuable enough to do that? I actually think it's a different reason. I actually think it's because of the mechanisms for for doing this is is actually quite different and that the incentives for people boosting and contributing to the show is is not is not necessarily related to past content. It's more about the current stuff. And so you can ask, okay why do people boost. That's obviously the main thing that's that's driving it. That's driving, I suppose, revenue into the show. If you want to call it value, let's call it that.
And the main reason is because of the feedback loop. And so what you see on your screen now here is just a collection of our four biggest supporters and then also a list of every supporter that who who has contributed to the show of about a thousand sets or more. Those couple of people right on the on the boundary point, who I included in. And so what can you see from this? Well, the collective support is what I've labelled all of the streaming payments coming in. And so this is actually our third biggest supporter in terms of of raw numbers. And we have two people, Peter the Bull, the Booster, the Slav, and Dave Jones, who's been very supportive of my particular show from podcasting to Pono, and then Chris Fisher coming in in the fourth position from Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been, you know, some of our biggest supporters. And if you just tallied up the numbers, if you just look at Dave and Peter together, they are about about half of the amount we've totally we've received in total. I'll talk about the total numbers in the in the next chapter, but there are roughly 3 million sets is about half of what we've received coming in. And this is where it's going. Like, okay, well how should I look at this in terms of like, is this actually one? One of the things I have said about the value for value model is it kind of decentralised?
You know, you're not relying on one particular advertising company that could just pull the rug away at any moment or they go bankrupt or this is one of the aspects about the value for value model, which is is is a nice thing. But then I look at this and I go, Oh, well I've got two people who have contributed half of everything that we've received. Isn't that super risky? And it is, it is kind of. But when I think about this as well, I go, you know, there is now 82 different people who have contributed varying amounts of of of support through to the show.
There was a period where Peter was just boosting and tons and tons and tons as of the like the last six months year he dropped off and you know what actually happened? Other people started to step up. We had other people new time is coming in boosting in. I actually saw a new a new name just boosting into the models literally about 10 minutes to go. And the the thing that works with a value for value is it kind of just works out in the end. Adam talks about this a lot, which is it's kind of frustrating if you if you don't have any data or numbers to back this up because it's like, what do you mean?
It just works out in the end? But, but I think the thing is it works in the sense that if you continue to provide good value, it it will people will step up, People will notice this, they will contribute. And if you ask for it, and if you make it known and apparent that they need to contribute, they will. And I have the numbers to back this up and on. I'll talk about that in a second. So yeah, is it risky? Yes. But I feel like this unequal distribution is always going to occur no matter what you're doing. I'm I'm almost certain it's the same for no agenda there.
Top 510 producers is what they call them. They would be dwarfing the amount of other contributions that they have received. But if it all goes up, then it all goes up. You know, the top boosters, the top people supporting will support more. And then those ones who at the moment are supporting for us, you know, a thousand sets, which is what, 40 Australian cents, something like that, that that can actually change to, you know, 10,000 and then it'll be $4. It's like, oh, okay, awesome. That's, that's cool. That's something new, something interesting. So let's jump onto the next section here, which was okay, It's been about to 2.25, two years and a quarter since I found out about all of this.
So first of all, in terms of like total numbers and things, the four years that I've been doing podcasting with the models, it's only been 2.25 years since we've actually allowed anyone to to send stuff in to us because we were just doing it somewhat as a hobby at the start with getting more serious during the COVID times and realising, yeah, like this is something that at least me personally, that I want to do full time. And one I think in the very future would, would perhaps want to as well. And so it's only been 2.25 years. So since around July of 2021, since we've allowed people to contribute.
And as I mentioned, that was mostly just through the the actual method of and the micropayments within the apps. And it's only the PayPal that we've we've started doing recently. And you can tell it basically captured me straight away this, this micropayment aspect of using Bitcoin to be able to do it within the apps because how we received our first booster Graham payment coming in it was yeah. Around the end of July of 2021 and as I mentioned I started the value for value show in August of 2021. So it was pretty much instantly where I was like, Holy shit, I think this is a game changer and I need to know more about this and create a podcast to help learn for myself and then to to teach other people what this is all about.
So here's a graph down the bottom you can see starting from quarter three of 2021, and then it goes for each quarter. So we've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine data points there. And this is a cumulative graph of of how much with and and so you can see at the very start and we received, you know, about 200,000 sets. Okay. That was that was kind of cool for all four of those payments coming in and then but but you know relatively nothing and then Q4, it's getting to about 500,000. So about the same thing to Q1 of 2020 to 700000.
And you can just see the graph is just steadily becoming higher and higher and and more amounts. And so what I'm kind of hoping to see that this will eventually become exponential. And so as of the end of September of 2023, so as of four days ago, we had received 6,362,678 SATs and total. And this is across all of the various shows because I collate them, I add them all up together. And so what we can see with that is, okay, how much is that 6.3, 6 million sets. That's about the equivalent of 2,800 AUD. So for what, two and 2.25 years worth of of effort, two and a half.
Let's just say three grand, you know, that's certainly not enough to live off. No way. I even as frugal as I am, that's that's not enough to live off. But is this the fault of value for value, though? Or what's going on here? Where would I be if we had actually used ads instead? Because it's important to remember the shows that I have the models, the value for value of the book reviews as of this very moment, you would not describe them as big shows unless you were a new podcaster coming in and being like, Oh my God, how do you get more than three or four downloads per day?
Which I have been well and truly been there. I'm not I'm not receiving like tons and tons and tons of views on or listens to 20 of these. And so I can back this up because I have data for all of these things. So let's start a comparison. We've got a set number 2.25 years. How how would I have compared if I had been using advertising in this time time period? And unfortunately, I won't be able to go that far back because the this comparison is going to be tricky. Whenever you start doing hypotheticals, you have to try and figure out, okay, like what is the the actual number?
First of all, what are the actual numbers themselves? Second of all, how can you compare these numbers? Are they actually going to to be working properly? And and what is, I suppose, the hidden assumptions that you're you're maybe not realising are in the back there. And so with these, with these I'm going to basically give the caveat here. I've moved the podcast around multiple times and so numbers of downloads and things like that have changed dramatically. I've lost numbers from that. So that's the kind of data I haven't been able to collect and it also didn't matter because that data was just, yeah, whatever is just people listening in.
It's kind of more like a popularity thing. It doesn't matter to me as much. And so, well, with the comparison, let's just first start off with what's numbers? What is the is the numbers of downloads that we're getting are they actually real? And so I don't have all of this, as I mentioned, but I can do a little bit of independent verification for at least the memorial show because I have that as and as to sources to be able to get it from. One is from the actual bus throughout the host that I use and one is from this tag called o.P three, which is stands for the Open Podcasting Prefix project, I believe, and this is maintained by John Spurlock, created by him now then what?
What would have been the you know, let's let's compare those two numbers the the podcasting numbers and the the numbers of downloads via bus sprout, which have an incentive to kind of show higher ones because, you know, then my podcast host, they want to show me doing well versus John's which is no it's it's just a thing you put in your feed a tag and he allows him to kind of collect this data and he does whatever magic stuff that he does in the background, I don't know fully, but he's able to get a whole bunch of numbers of how how often your show has been downloaded.
So if you see the two graphs here, they kind of look a little bit different in terms of the amounts of downloads on individual days because they should think they would match up roughly. But what we see in total is that the number of downloads is about the same 7230 different here, 30 different now, doesn't it? Doesn't really matter. So we can definitely see. All right, these numbers seem legit. Let's let's have a look at how much I would have earned through ads through this this time period. And so I'm just taking a the I suppose the time period I'm going to use is that quarter three of 2023, which I was talking about and had real good numbers from.
I'm just that's the only thing that I can really look at and do a comparison. So if I take that for the Miyamoto show, we had about 20,769 downloads for for that month, according to Sprout. If I look at the total numbers that I had of people boosting in and the actual amount of income, it was about 575,000 sets, which was equivalent to about $250 Australian. So okay, that's all right. That's across three months. Once again, it's not liveable off, but it's it's it's got some numbers. It's certainly something now if I wanted to monetise using the bus platform, which they do have in there, this is what it literally says on them.
You'll get paid for the monetised downloads you serve all ads, pay the same 1.5 cents USD per download. You can apply your earnings to future bus invoices, blah blah, blah blah blah blah. So we have a number that 1.4 $0.04 us deeper download this is about right. So that is equal to about a $14 CPM cost per mill, which is the typical metric that they use. I've heard numbers, I've I did a bit of research. Typically it's around that 20 range, that $20 range. Some will be higher, some will be lower. Depends on if you're doing highest reads, depends on if you're doing just a straight up, you know, dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makes about rough sense to me. So we'll just use the number that they have, which I know I could get using using bus prep. So let's do some quick ad math with 20,769 downloads, multiply that by the 1.4 cents per per download and you get to about 291 USD, which would be 455 AUD. So if we're just doing a straight up comparison of of that, a theoretical comparison, you would say, okay, well value for value is not as great. That's about half as great than four for the mere mortal show. I think there's a lot of assumptions in there because they don't.
You're not going to get a with the ad model. You're not going to get a consistent ad placed on each download. So that number will be slightly less. And I think there's a couple of things. But look, let's just say for the moment advertising wins, right? And why are you doing the value for value show? Well, this is just one set of metrics. And let's jump onto the other main show, which I've been earning revenue from, which is the value for value show. And so similar deal here, we'll look at these stats from July, August and September that just passed of 2023.
So this show is considerably smaller than the models. We had about 3000 listens, 3008 to be exact, listens across this time period once again, because this is on blueberry, a different hosting platform. I don't know if they have ads support like like Buzz Sprout did. I didn't I didn't see it in my quick research. Let's just use the same number of that 1.4 cents per download. This is equal to about 42 USD, which is about 66 AUD. Now, how did I do with the boost in streaming? Well, significantly more. I got 665,000 from the sets coming in, which is about 283 284 AUD.
So okay, well, what's going on there this time? Value for value is is four times as much. How do you work this out? What's the what's what's changed? You know, and I think this is where I'll just end off my my case study in my comparison here by just saying my little summary. I guess. So which method is better? Which if you're going to go, if you had to choose between one like only value for value and only adds, my general takeaway would be if you've got a smaller show, I probably would say value for values is going to work best. I would almost certainly say value for value is going to work best.
Advertisers are not interested in doing advertisements on small shows. It's too hard to monitor. It's too hard to make sure that the ads are being served correctly, and the amount of people just listening just doesn't make sense for them to do that. If you have a small niche show related to a topic that you particularly love and there is only an addressable market of, you know, a thousand people in the world who are interested in this topic and which is kind of what you can do with podcasting. I saw a show recently which was highlighted for its uniqueness, which was the amount of water being wasted in food production, and it was someone going on a deep dive to figure out how much water is being wasted.
You know, that's an incredibly, incredibly niche podcast. Are they going to be able to get millions of downloads for for people listening into that unlikely, but there would be some people who would be really interested in that show and I think would be willing to contribute to that show. If you created one which was fascinating enough for people to to listen to. So typically what I would say is I think that small shows value for value easily wins and that that is the correct way to go. If you're getting to a medium sized show like the Me and Models, you're probably going to have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again, we've chosen a very niche path of of saying like, you know, come support us through the these new apps, come support us using Bitcoin. It's it's hard. It's difficult. And so with a broad show like that, like we have there, which is addressed more to a a broader audience because of the way we've done it, we've we've certainly made it harder. If we had used PayPal from the very start, I'm almost certain that that number would have been closer to the ad section to the to the ad numbers. So, you know, instead of having only received 246 four for that quarter that we just passed would be closer to the 455 that theoretically we could have got through ads.
So I think the for kind of like a medium show like us, which is getting, you know, roughly 100 to 300 downloads per episode or something like that, I would say, you know, either's kind of good. Just take your pick which one you want to do when you're getting up to the really, really large shows. This is where I'm once again, you know, I'm kind of having to go based on feel now, even though John, John C Dvorak and Adam Currie can do it, they've got a super, super large show. They're getting close to a million downloads per episode. I would say they would probably make more if they just went through the advertising group because you can just if with a show like that, it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's, there's a tension, there's attraction coming in. I feel like you could kind of negotiate that to it to a higher level than what they're receiving now the pay you know what would be the the downside to that is well, they would have responsibilities in terms of advertisers that would have to make sure that they're not saying certain things that would perhaps go against the advertisers. This is where I think you encounter a lot of the problems, which I see with with advertising model is, you know, self-censorship, relying on that one or two big advertisers to support your show of just trading, I guess, security of having you know, you almost certainly know how much you're going to get per month using advertising because they have these guarantees like you're guaranteed to get this at the least, this much more perhaps if certain episodes do better.
And then that's where it's like I think I think that probably you'll earn more, but you're going to have to decide on the trade offs for that. Do you feel comfortable putting ads in front of your show? Are you willing to do lots of meetings with advertisers to make sure that they're happy with how the show is performing and all of these sorts of things? So yeah, that's that's just one section there. I also see one in the chat here saying Devil's advocate, if for those 2.25 years we had instead focussed on advertising and not boosting, so then targeting our show to popularity, I guess in the short term it's likely we could have gotten more money.
But at what cost in the long run is my answer. So in that case, yes, you're if you are creating a show and and you're making it and you want to create the most money from advertising, it does need to be niche to a certain audience because certain audiences are more likely to spend. I think the the most desirable is about I think it's young men from 20 to 35 is the biggest spender category. And then probably after that would be young women and then after that it would be like older generations. I think that is the and yeah, there's a whole lot of things that go into this. So.
Oh, I won't, I won't dive down that rabbit hole because that that's a deep one. I could, I could talk about that for a while. So we'll leave it at that for the moment and instead let's go on to some, to Graham's Welcome to the Value for Value Booster Graham Lounge. I've got a couple of things coming in here because I've got a live one in. I got to call them out. Thank you very much. Adam Curry got the bat signal and he sent 10,000 SATs sent using pod verse. Thank you very much, Adam. So yeah, maybe he can comment in and and tell me if he thinks if, if he had gone through advertising and assuming he'd gotten the same amount of people listening to a no agenda, which he almost certainly wouldn't have because the advertiser would have started to, it would have drove away other people and drawn in certain others.
But let's just assume he got the same amount. I would love to know. I would love to know if if he thinks that he would have earned more just in straight up numbers through advertising. Obviously the value for value model relies on so much more and relies this so much more value which is not captured monetarily in this easy form, but which actually is valuable. People creating a website. People like this. Peter the Slav who sent me in this this document which I still use for my chapters, and I would have had to pay someone to like create some coding or do some things to be able to just copy and paste stuff, you know, is it saving?
It's it's money, but it's an A, it's a different form. And so it's very hard to capture. But yes, thank you very much, Adam. So, yes, as a reminder of everyone, I am live as of 10 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday, which is UTC midnight. Wherever you are in the world on that Tuesday and Wednesday. So just plus or minus your your time zone from the universal coordinated time, you I would say UTC and yeah yeah that would be the way to to join in life and send in a boost live just like Mr. Adam Curry the father has done there. Let's jump back into the previous booster Grahams.
We've got Sam Sethi making a whole bunch of payments sent through pod fans. Once again, check out the progressive Web app because you will get at the live bat signal if you are if you have if you're a fan of the mere mortals or of the sorry, if you're a fan of the values of our show, you will definitely get that out and get that that app is it's going to do some cool things. So this is already very slick to play around with it the other day and yeah, looking very, very nice. We also have here Gene, being from the last show from the volunteer technologists which I talked about and highlighted his chat with Mitch is now out.
Please check it out. It's it's very fascinating. It says great show and thanks for the shout out 2222 sent using custom medic. Thank you very much Gene my man Much appreciated We've got here Sir Spencer who is of the the wolf of I think he calls himself the Wolf of Kansas City. Yeah that's it. Who from ball after bowl. He says appreciate it the self hosting Shout it. Anyone can do it if they decide they want to 6969 Neon sent using pod verse. He loves the meme numbers. He does and at using pod verse. Of course, the the open source app, which I was talking about.
And then this is one where it's it's I, I struggle with this and so I probably say something's wrong sometimes and so he's, it's got another boost sent in here once again 6969 using pod verse Thank you. And he says, I think many people who are technically inclined still identify it as non-technical just because they're more advanced, just because there are more advanced areas or aspects of tech we use that we don't fully understand. Hearing you identify as non-technical is like hearing someone who changes their own oil saying they're not a big car guy because they can't rebuild an engine.
And then he's got the emoji with the beta sweat on it. You've been you've been out here running with scissors too, and every day is a learning experience. You're a technical guy, whether you believe it or not. Karen So thank you. Thank you very much. I think that's a compliment. Thank you. Thank you. Spencer. My problem, I suppose, is my my way of communicating my dislike of of of problem solving when it comes to technology, I find it incredibly frustrating. I find it almost anxiety producing at times, to be honest, because it feels very hidden behind the scenes.
Like what? Why is this thing that was working has suddenly stopped? For example, the USB port on my laptop has suddenly stopped working. I try to do a bit of a fix in case it was a drive, a thing that didn't work. But there's still options that it could be or it could be a an actual hardware default. Some dusters got in. I don't know. What do I do with that? I don't like that experience. That pisses me off to no end. So when I say non-technical, I what I mean is I don't have that intuitive talent nor the desire to fully dive down into these things.
But yes, in a in a way I am because I obviously have gotten very deep into the booster cramming, all of these sorts of things which other people would say are no, and that's super technical. I could never be able to do that. So I yeah, I do appreciate that. I suppose it's the paradox, the paradox of life that even though I don't feel like I am, perhaps I perhaps I actually am. But in any case, he had actually just a great chat with Steven Bell from Cure Costa of the Music Side Project of the Split kit of Ellen Beats Fame. So the guy who I was talking about really on the Value for Value Music episode because he does so much, he had a great chat with him and they talked a lot about coding and this kind of aspect of of trying to do things for yourself, self hosting.
And yeah, I would recommend checking that out. Oh, I'll put a link in this episode. And then he says, Have you heard No agenda, no brand will advertise with us and we would have been Demonetised years ago. 10,000 That sent using podcast. I have, I have Adam. I've tuned into a few episodes. Yeah it's this is I guess the tricky thing, right with the, with the ability to to try and do these theoretical numbers. You know I came up with some numbers just before of 245 versus 455. That 455 is it's a it's a vapour, it's a wisp of air. It's it's not a real tangible thing.
It's a it's a guesstimate. And I it could very, very wildly I've heard advertising rates being double that 1.4%. So does that mean that that number should be doubled? And I've also heard it be significantly less and I'm assuming it's being on this end as you as so many assumptions that come into this. This is where I would probably maybe recommend for someone who is. All right, the starting of the podcast for the first time. And they they're really enjoying it. Perhaps they're getting some listeners coming in and they're like, okay, well, I would love to at least recoup some of the costs of hosting and things like this. What should I do?
I would definitely recommend, you know, attempting value for value at the very least. And I'm going to talk about my tips section about how you do that. And this is where, you know, where we're on onto the tips section. So you shows will do better if you adopt certain tactics and if you do certain things. Now, you heard me mentioning before, and if you looked at the graphs, you'll see the current West End is in Spanglish. You said you had four shows, but you only you only put in boosting amounts for three of them. Well, if you look at the dates of things.
So the first the first boost to Graham we received received from Chad f was on the Yeah. That end of July period of 2021, I stopped the craziness in Spanglish right around that same period. It was July August of that of that same year. So what had been happening was obviously I was doing a show not as Innocent Spanglish, the book reviews, but I never mentioned the boost branding or any of the value for value stuff because I didn't even know about it. I had never heard of it before. So even though I subsequently later put in the value block and had the ability for people to boost and I never talked about it, so I never got a single cent, I never got a single Satoshi from from anyone doing that. So what you will notice is that for value, for value to really work, you have to adopt certain tactics and certain things will will work better and incentivise people to come in.
Much like Adam was saying here, you know his show, No Agenda. It got very popular because they have no agenda, they don't have advertising, they don't have people telling them what they can and can't say whether it be in a strong form or a very soft form. They don't have that. And so the tactics that they have come up with or tactics perhaps even is a strong word, the the natural progression of their show turned into things that would enable people to to boost it up, to boost and to to send money to send value to their show. And so what are the some of these things? Well, look, the book reviews, I didn't even bother to do any graphs or things related to that.
Why It's because I've received so little from that. And then you can go, okay, well, why have you received so little from that card? Well, this is how I have done the book reviews in the past. I would pre-record it so it would usually be recorded a week or two in advance because it required me actually reading the book and keeping on top of this is rather hard. So I would just post it out. I would have the call to action at the end. Hey, please boost into the show if you want to. Like if you if you got value from this. But I never had any real good feedback loop.
And so I started doing this live one that I would do once a month that the recap where I could address all the booster Grahams that had received in that past month. Now is this great for incentive for people to boost in? Well, not really because they'll boost in. And then it's only a month later that I'm really talking about it. So what I would say here is some of the tips for for someone who is creating value for value. So, number one, first you have to ask, make sure you ask and make sure that you let people know that it's a value for value so they can send in however much they want to.
And we're just focusing on the treasure aspect here, the money aspect of it. Make sure that you ask and make sure that people know how to do it and that they can send in whatever amount they want that they value. That is a critical one. You need to make the the feedback loop as tight as possible. And so when they, you know, boost in or when they send in a PayPal or whenever they do something, they're sending you in cash or whatever the acknowledgement should come in the next episode if possible. And so this is where having a really tight feedback loop is is best.
So you still can prerecord, but it's better to pre-record, you know, one day in advance instead of two weeks like I was doing for the book reviews. Another one live is a really weird motivator. We just seen Adam Curry here boost in a whole bunch, and I can see him also streaming and payments at the same time, which is really, really cool. If you look at things like twitch streamers or even those NPC live streamers that you seen on Tik Tok, which I find so fascinating, has such a cool subject subgenre. And so this is where it will be a girl with a camera in front of her and people will send in a it's like an emoji.
It's like a reaction, which actually she can exchange for money. And so if they send an ice cream on, she goes, ice cream. So good, yum, yum, yum. And obviously this is, you know, what is the value that people are getting from that? Well, it's because it's live. They do some action and someone on the other side of the world responds to that and does something with me. It was with Adam just right now. It was me talking about his show. It was me talking about something that he messaged me super, super cool. And it's the same it's the same aspect that's going on with these live streamers, these twitch's twitch people and stuff.
There's just something about the live experience which which people really enjoy. And so then we go live is is another one, I think creating a better show, making it more easy to for people, easier for people to to boost in, to contribute to the show. So having the funding tag within your actual show nodes doing, having the value blocks is set up so that if someone is listening via a podcasting app, they can do it directly within the app. All of these things creating better show with chapter art and images and things like this. I think all of that is very useful, essential as well.
And then the final one, consistency is critical as passive income. I'm I'm coming to the conclusion that passive income is a largely a myth just because you create a show which has evergreen content, I don't think that means that you're going to get people going back and listening, much like music royalties, where if you create one really big show, one really big hit, you can live off that for the rest of your life. I'm not sure the same will work in podcasting. I don't think that the intangible qualities that music have of people just listening to something like 5100 times in a row, which I have done with certain songs, I don't think the same is going to happen with podcasting and a podcast episode, no matter how viral it goes, no matter how interesting that one episode is, I don't I don't think that that passive income, you're going to get the same as perhaps you could with a a hit a music hit, a song which just really, you know, something like Stairway to Heaven, which is just going to it's it's stuck around for so long. So in this case, the consistency is you have to keep doing it.
You have to keep putting out a show, as Adam Curry has done for six years, with no agenda, as I have basically been doing with my three or four shows for, well, three shows now that a person is is no longer active for a long time. And so yeah, that's that's another one. The The passive income I think is is largely a myth the app and service highlight for for today. Let's jump onto that let's wrap this up if you haven't used OPI three, I would definitely recommend checking it out if you want to see the statistics and real granular things. So if you once again, if you check out your chapter right now, there's all sorts of things that he's got going on there.
He's got the what was this called? It was like the episodes over time. So you can really see how the episodes are performing. Typically you'll see it like really shoot up straight away and then have this long, long tail of people gradually listening in. He's got such detailed statistics there of, you know, which apps are people using, where are they listening from in the world? Which certain countries are once again talking about non-technical? I don't know how he gets all of this stuff, but he does. The the thing with all of this is you, it's a o.p three dot dev is way you should go to to check out more.
And it provides all sort of free data because it's open. So once again, you have to be comfortable with someone coming and looking at that. And because anyone can look at it, this data is out in the open. So once again open source check out the last episode. So what I would say, ask your host to put in the necessary permission into your RSS feed. It's actually relatively simple, and I think most hosts would be willing to do that and it can yet just get into real granular info. So I would recommend checking that out. I've just got a comment here from one Disagree.
Passive income from podcasts works very well for large podcasters out there with evergreen content. Tim Ferriss has talked about this in the past with some of his older podcasts. Okay, I didn't know that. Perhaps that's the exception, not the rule. Also, the reposting of old content, say five years later with no edit. Does that count as passive income? Yeah, I get kind of it's it's not. Yeah, it's not an active effort but certainly it's older stuff which I guess you could. Yeah. Yeah I'll, I'll, I'll allow it. I'll allow it one.
So yeah I suppose that's a, that's an idea as well there. If you, if you just repost old stuff that kind of can play into that consistency aspect. But yeah. Look. Well just from our numbers I can say people have not been boosting older episodes. It's, it's, it's episodes which are the current the recent ones. Yeah. Well we'll have to see. We'll have to grow our show bigger and then be allowed to do that. Let's, let's wrap it up here. Value for value. Who am I going to give 15% to this episode? I'm going to give it to John Spurlock for for creating the open three dot dev.
He does a lot of I have used some of his graphs before such in the the podcasting 2.0 ecosystem that episode is it growing. I used a couple of his graphs and now obviously I put in run four for that episode. So this is kind of a little good for that as well. And yeah, he, it's in podcasting 2.0 value for value. It only works when tons of people are contributing when we all get together. I know this episode has been very much focussed on the money aspect which people certainly are interested in, but the whole show, this whole show is very much about other the other aspects of that, the connection with your audience, it's about the different ways that people can contribute.
It's about, it's, it's about totally changing your mindset away from extractive value of people need to get this it's a zero sum game to a a non-zero-sum game. We cannot the pie can grow and we can all be happier and better. So final thoughts from this Just for me. Obviously I'm not at this stage yet where it is a full time income. I'm going to work as hard as I can to make that happen. And if if after like ten years I haven't made it, I'll have to just admit, like, you know what? I just wasn't able to create enough value for for people for this to become a full time thing.
And podcasting will would therefore remain a hobby for me. But I'm going to fucking try really hard. And what I've found from just my own personal life is typically when I tend to stick with things and I stick with them for years and years, I get better at it. And, and it does tend to just all work out in the end. So thank you very much, everyone, for for joining in time, Talent and treasure. I would say sharing this episode with the digital creator, well, particularly with a smaller podcaster, I think would be immensely valuable for them. Just so they can get some rough numbers, they can compare that to where they're at.
All of this is rough, of course. And but and know it's niche. It depends on your show and all of that sort of thing. But I think just having some numbers sometimes can can help people out. And then obviously coming and joining in live like Juan and Adam, it is super, super fun talent. Is there anything I can do to make this show better? One was just say of the audio quality is crisp, clear, which is great because I have been working on that, have been also working on fixing up my studio, getting a little bit more soundproofing. No, still soundproofing.
What's it called? There's a word for making it not completely soundproof, but for just reducing reverb and echo and all that sort of stuff. Resources that are similar to the overlap of these book recommendations. Anything that I've said that spark some ideas topic suggestions you would like me to cover, please send those in via Instagram. I would really love that. Or you can reach out via any of the social links that are down below as well. And then finally, the treasure. Look, of course I have to talk about the podcasting apps and the booster grams.
That's that's the main thing that I've been talking about. So new podcast app stock com or if you go to Miyamoto's podcast dot com slash support I've got a little explanation there of of how you can use a new podcasting app to to help support into the show. If you don't want to do that if you don't want a new podcasting app if you go to the podcast index website and and boost in there that will value all of the splits that I'm putting up. And so that would be awesome. So check out value for the number four value on the podcast index website, or you can do it to me directly at CAR and I get all VidCon.
I'd prefer you wouldn't do that because I want to to send the value on to everyone else who are in my splits. But if you have to, you can also do it there and yeah, yeah. Well we'll leave it at that a couple of just little make goods as well. I misspoke the other week there. As of now there are four episodes left of this season. I will then probably take a small short break, maybe a month, maybe less, and then get back into it for season four, because I am really, really enjoying doing these Valley for Value episodes. And there was another clarification from the Ipfs podcasting.
I said that your favourite a feed. I'm sorry I said that your favourite an episode on that. I meant that you favourite feed. Just a random little clarification there but yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for everyone Adam and Swan for joining me in live. Very, very cool. I much appreciate it and I would yeah just leave it there to next week's episode is going to be it's going to be a bit of a different one. I'm not exactly sure how it's going to work in terms of the live component because I'm going to be using my phone to really I want to do like a showcasing of all of these different apps and their features.
Bruce Diagramming how you can do what it kind of looks like. So it's going to be very much dominant on the video aspect, which obviously I can't do here on a live audio show. So there'll be a video that will come out afterwards. So that one it will be talking about the the apps themselves and some of these comparisons and things like that. So yeah, a little heads up there for what to expect and yeah, I really hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are in the world. Thanks for joining me for this longer episode Chao for now, Kyrin out.
