Can you earn a living just through Value 4 Value? In Ep#52 we're going to examine how much I've made across my various shows & where I'd be if I had used advertising instead. Make sure you check the chapter art for all the fancy graphs I've created.
Huge thanks to Adam Curry, Sir Spencer, Gene Bean & Sam Sethi for supporting the show. You are now part of my data hehe.
15% of this episode is going to John Spurlock for his creation of OP3 and giving me handy graphs to use for nerd purposes.
Handy links:
OP3 Website: https://op3.dev/
Steven B On 'Bowl After Bowl': https://bowlafterbowl.com/episode-272/
Value 4 Value Support:
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Can you earn a living justthrough value for value? Welcome everyoneto another episode of the Valuefor Value podcast. My name is Kyrin. Host of the Mere Mortalsand Mere Mortals Book Reviews podcast,but also, well, actuallyalso the value for value. And another one calledReseñas in Spanglish, but we'll get on tothat soon. This is the podcastfor those digital creators who want to havea deeper connection with their audience and also be ableto monetise that. And in this episodein particular, we're really going to be focusingon the monetisation.
I've talkeda lot about value before, but this time we're going to talk about many, many,many, many, many and whether you couldbe able to go full time using the valuefor value model, because I'vetalked about it a lot but haven't really providedmany case examples of people who have gonethis full route and whether this isactually the route to try and go full timeor if you want to do something else. So we'll we'll lookat that in particular. I've got a lot of graphsand I can tell you my personal experience and I've got a lot of data to back up what I'm goingto be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jumpinto it and jump into it. So I think to start offwith probably the scariest thingabout value for value apart from firststarting to ask, which is reallyuncomfortable saying because it kind of feels like you're begging like,Oh, please, please helpsupport the show. It's it kind of feels like,oh my God, Like, oh, it's it'slike I'm begging for it. Once you get over thatbarrier, which I have talked aboutin previous episodes, I think the next one is that there'sno guarantees. And so it's really ayou just have to start start tryingand and see how it goes.
And there's no fixed income,there is no contracts, There is no the there's nothingwritten and set in stone. And so in this case it'slike, well, how do you how do I knowif it even works? So to start off with,there is one big case example,and this is no agenda, so no agenda is Adam Curryand Jonsi, the work show, which they have donefor 16 years now. They started off a long time ago and they have proventhat it works. Absolutely. They they dosolely value for value. No ads, only supportedby the people listeners. They call themproducers at home. And they don't have paywalls, don'thave anything like that.
And they've been doing itfor a long time and have been ableto support themselves. And if yougo into their show and listento the amount of donations coming in, it's a fairbit of money. You can go, okay, yes,definitely. These these guys are ableto support themselves and their familiesthrough this, but they are a huge,huge outlier. I went on a little discovery journeywith their show because I didn't actually really enjoythe show that much. It's talking about newsand media, which I'm I'm kind of iffy about,don't really care and politics. And but I was just sayinglike, okay, how do they stop this off?
What was it like for them And just from the get go,you know, you're a huge outlierif you're getting 100,000 listeners per episode beforeyou've even published 50, which is whatthey had now. They were, you know, both of them were well known, successful before theywere doing podcasting, but they were doing itwhen the podcasting wasn't a saturated marketor when there was certainlya lot less people. All of these reasonsyou can go, okay, they're a bitof an outlier official. And so when I look at othertypes of shows which have adopted the valuesfor value, a lot of them come from theNo agenda sort of nation becausethey heard about it there.
This is wherethe model was created. And when I look at them, most of them I would saya kind of hobbyist shows. I haven't found one,but I'm certain that yes, they're doing thisfull time as well. And so I wanted to know,you know, is this going to workfor someone who is wanting to go fulltime? Will this work for someonewho really has a passion for podcasting? And so we'll justlive in it to podcasting here and not go into the othertypes of digital media. If someone is a podcasterand wanting to do this, can they actually goabout doing this? What are some data sets?
Do we have any casestudies? Can is there any wayto kind of predict if this is possible? And so I have decidedto do that myself. So I really wantto become a podcast. That's the onlything I really want to do, engineering, whichis what I used to do, not my cup of tea. I would rather not do thatif possible. And so I have give youa little bit of backstory here of my historyof of podcasting. So I have four main shows. The first one was meremodels, the kind of like flagship one. This is what I started in September of 2019with my co-host one. I had another show called Prisonersin Spanglish, which I startedin December of 2020, and this was whereI would do book reviews,but in Spanish, and I call it Spanglish because my Spanish Spanishis my second night, my second language.
I'm not native in it. There was a lot of arms and hoursand certainly times where I would just sayan English word because I didn't knowthe Spanish equivalent. I had another showcalled Me and Models book reviews,which I suppose technically startedon February of 2021. It actually startedmuch earlier in termsof producing actual book reviews,but these were in the Miyamoto's feed. And so it was all of February 2021where we broke it up. And so once again,I do this with Juan, but I'm I'm the main one.I do most of the reading and that goes intoit went into its own feed.
And so technicallythat was when the mad Models bookreview started. And then the valuefor value show started. The very oneyou listening to right now of August of 2021. So those are the four podcaststhat I had in an RSS feed. I had another video type one,which was a play around thing,but nothing serious. And so all of thesehave had the access for ability to for people to boost into the show,to contribute back what has happenedacross these four shows. We're now sitting hereor the 4th of October 20, 23. So jeez,what a solid two years from all of them at least, and four years from the mainme, a modest one.
What hashappened from that and how would I have compared if I had gone through what you would saymaybe is the standard route of advertising. And the good thingfor all of you, dear listeners at home,is that I am a nerd. I mentioned I'm an engineerand so I collect data. I really,really like data. And so what have I done? I've collectedall of the data from everythingthat we have received in terms of contributions from fromthe minimal lights at arm, as well as whatwe call them. And the. Yep, I will I'll just start listing off some of this hereso you can get an idea.
And I wanted to break down I supposeright at the start here, the difference betweenstreaming and boosting and the different paymentmethods. And so we have focussedvery heavily on the ability to do paymentsthrough digital money, through Bitcoin. So this is the, the streaming and the boost which I've talked about inprevious episodes, and we have only veryrecently kind of set up a PayPal linkfor someone to send Fiat moneyif they wanted to. And so most of all of this data is actuallyfrom the boosting because that's, that'swhat we've focussed on. That's what we wantedpeople to do.
So value for value onceagain, is not Bitcoin. It is not sending thingsthrough these apps and and online like that. It is people contributingvalue back. But because we that iswhat we're focussed upon, That is what we havereceived. So we actually don't haveany free fiat payments to to speak of. And if we had focussedupon that I'm sure, sure we would have. So that's just a caveatthere to start with. And this is the numbers. So if you lookon your screen now and I would encourage youto get a podcasting app which allows youto do that because there's going to be a lot of dataand graphs appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for this would be somethinglike pod fans like Cura. Let's start with mobilepod fans on the mobile. They've got a new progressive web app,which is really cool. I would also encourage youto look on Fountain and on, which iseven podcast addict. I know he brings it up. I know pod verse brings itup, breeze brings it up anyway,where you can get chapters and you can see things inyour phone would be valuablefor, for this. And so if you look on the top boxhere, I've got as of April 1st, 2023. So this is where I had a big collationof all the data.
And you can see I've split it up into three differentshows there. The main models,the book reviews and the value for value. And I've also split it up into the boostingand streaming altogether as of April 1st, 2023,you had about 4.36 million satoshis coming in. And from now on I've been doing thesekind of quarterly reports. And so skippingquarter to 2023, we just passed quarter three, which is as asof the end of September. And once again, if you look on your screenthere, you can see I've split itup into July, August, September and got a real nichewith the details.
How many sets per show or in terms of boostingin terms of streaming, converting thisinto Australian dollars. What was the total fromthat quarter? Three, We had 1.26 millionand so the first thing that really stands outhere is streaming amounts are typicallyabout 10 to 13% of the total that comes in. And the boosting the SES messagesor one time payments which someone has sent inare about 87 to 90%. So you can see, okay, most of the revenue is coming in viathe boosting. So why is this and I guess I yeah, it's definitely heavilyskewed towards it, not necessarilywith the messages and and why is thisand is this necessarily a good or a bad thing.
The one of the thingsthat got me really into the programmable moneythe the aspect of people being able to supportin the podcasting app which just makes senseif you want to do it, you shouldn'thave to go out to different linksand click on all these things,like it's best to be able to do itwithin the actual app. It was all, you know,I could there's this real appeal that people could payfor the back catalogue, as in,I've got all of this, all of these thingsset up. What if someoneis going back and finding the models for the first time that going backto the very first episode and they're listeningall the way through, Oh my God, they could.
They could actually,you know, be paying me that whole timeas as they're doing that. Isn't that awesome? And thatwas a thought in my mind. Have I actually seen that?No, no, that doesn't typicallytended to happen. And I think perhapsa difference from this is is something like I was thinking of thisas as in music royalty. You just create it one timeand then you can kind of get paid foreverperpetually. Wouldn't that be awesome? As long as it is popular? So what?What's the difference? Is my contentjust not evergreen enough? Are peoplejust not going back to the very first episodesand listening in?
Are they just. Yeah. Is itjust something that's that's not valuable enoughto do that? I actually think it'sa different reason. I actually think it'sbecause of the mechanisms for for doing this is is actually quite different and that the incentivesfor people boosting and contributing tothe show is is not is not necessarilyrelated to past content. It's moreabout the current stuff. And so you can ask, okaywhy do people boost. That's obviously the main thingthat's that's driving it. That's driving, I suppose,revenue into the show. If you want to call itvalue, let's call it that.
And the main reason is becauseof the feedback loop. And so whatyou see on your screen now here is justa collection of our four biggest supportersand then also a list of every supporter that who who has contributedto the show of about a thousand setsor more. Those couple of peopleright on the on the boundary point,who I included in. And so what can you seefrom this? Well, the collective supportis what I've labelled all of the streamingpayments coming in. And so this is actually our third biggest supporter in termsof of raw numbers. And we have two people,Peter the Bull, the Booster, the Slav, and Dave Jones,who's been very supportive of my particular showfrom podcasting to Pono, and then Chris Fishercoming in in the fourth positionfrom Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been, you know, some of ourbiggest supporters. And if you just tallied up the numbers, if you justlook at Dave and Peter together, they are about about half of the amountwe've totally we've received in total. I'll talk aboutthe total numbers in the in the next chapter, but there are roughly 3million sets is about half of whatwe've received coming in. And this is where it'sgoing. Like, okay, well how should I look at this in terms of like,is this actually one? One of the things I have saidabout the value for value model is it kind ofdecentralised?
You know,you're not relying on one particularadvertising company that could just pullthe rug away at any moment or they go bankrupt or this is one of the aspects about the valuefor value model, which is is is a nice thing. But then I look at thisand I go, Oh, well I've got two peoplewho have contributed half of everythingthat we've received. Isn't that super risky? And it is, it is kind of. But when I think about this as well,I go, you know, there is now 82 differentpeople who have contributedvarying amounts of of of supportthrough to the show. There was a periodwhere Peter was just boostingand tons and tons and tons as of the like the last six months yearhe dropped off and you knowwhat actually happened?
Otherpeople started to step up. We had other people new time is coming inboosting in. I actually saw a new a new namejust boosting into the models literallyabout 10 minutes to go. And the the thingthat works with a value for value is it kind ofjust works out in the end. Adam talks about thisa lot, which is it'skind of frustrating if you if you don't have any data or numbers to back this up because it's like,what do you mean? It just works outin the end? But, butI think the thing is it works in the sense that if you continue to providegood value, it it willpeople will step up, People will notice this,they will contribute.
And if you ask for it, and if you make it knownand apparent that they needto contribute, they will. And I have the numbersto back this up and on. I'll talk about thatin a second. So yeah, is it risky? Yes. But I feel like thisunequal distribution is always going to occur no matter whatyou're doing. I'm I'm almost certain it's the samefor no agenda there. Top 510 producersis what they call them. They would be dwarfingthe amount of other contributionsthat they have received. But if it all goes up,then it all goes up. You know, the top boosters, the top people supportingwill support more.
And then those oneswho at the moment are supporting for us, you know, a thousand sets,which is what, 40 Australian cents,something like that, that thatcan actually change to, you know, 10,000and then it'll be $4. It's like,oh, okay, awesome. That's, that's cool. That's something new,something interesting. So let's jump onto the next sectionhere, which was okay,It's been about to 2.25, two years and a quarter since I found outabout all of this. So first of all, in termsof like total numbers and things, the four yearsthat I've been doing podcastingwith the models, it's only been 2.25 yearssince we've actually allowed anyoneto to send stuff in to us because we werejust doing it somewhat as a hobbyat the start with getting more serious during the COVID timesand realising, yeah, like this is something thatat least me personally, that I want to dofull time.
And one I think in the very future would, wouldperhaps want to as well. And so it's only been 2.25years. So since aroundJuly of 2021, since we've allowedpeople to contribute. And as I mentioned,that was mostly just through thethe actual method of and the micropaymentswithin the apps. And it's only the PayPalthat we've we'vestarted doing recently. And you can tell itbasically captured me straight awaythis, this micropayment aspect of using Bitcoin to be able to do itwithin the apps because how we received our firstbooster Graham payment coming in it was yeah.
Aroundthe end of July of 2021 and as I mentioned I started the valuefor value show in August of 2021. So it was pretty muchinstantly where I was like,Holy shit, I think this is a game changer and I need to knowmore about this and create a podcastto help learn for myself and then to to teach other peoplewhat this is all about. So here's a graph down the bottomyou can see starting from quarterthree of 2021, and then it goesfor each quarter. So we've got one,two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,nine data points there. And this is a cumulativegraph of of how much with and and so you can see at the very startand we received, you know, about 200,000sets.
Okay. That was that was kind of coolfor all four of those paymentscoming in and then but but you knowrelatively nothing and then Q4, it'sgetting to about 500,000. So about the same thing to Q1 of 2020 to 700000. And you can just seethe graph is just steadily becoming higher and higher and and more amounts. And so what I'm kindof hoping to see that this will eventuallybecome exponential. And so as of the end of September of 2023,so as of four days ago, we had received6,362,678 SATs and total. And this is across all of the various showsbecause I collate them, I add them all uptogether.
And so whatwe can see with that is, okay, how much is that6.3, 6 million sets. That's about theequivalent of 2,800 AUD. So for what, two and 2.25years worth of of effort, two and a half. Let's just saythree grand, you know, that's certainlynot enough to live off. No way. I even as frugal as I am, that's that'snot enough to live off. But is this the fault ofvalue for value, though? Or what's going on here? Where would I be if we had actually usedads instead? Because it's importantto remember the showsthat I have the models, the value for value of the bookreviews as of this very moment, you would notdescribe them as big shows unless you werea new podcaster coming in and being like, Oh my God,how do you get more than threeor four downloads per day?
Which I have been welland truly been there. I'm not I'm not receivinglike tons and tons and tons of views onor listens to 20 of these. And so I can back this upbecause I have data for all of these things. So let's starta comparison. We've got a set number2.25 years. How how would I havecompared if I had been usingadvertising in this time time period? And unfortunately,I won't be able to go that far back because the this comparisonis going to be tricky. Whenever you startdoing hypotheticals, you have to try and figureout, okay, like what is the the actual number?
First of all,what are the actual numbers themselves? Second of all, how can youcompare these numbers? Are they actually going toto be working properly? And and what is,I suppose, the hidden assumptionsthat you're you're maybe not realisingare in the back there. And so with these, with these I'mgoing to basically give the caveat here. I've moved the podcastaround multiple times and so numbers of downloadsand things like that have changeddramatically. I've lost numbersfrom that. So that's the kind of data I haven'tbeen able to collect and it also didn't matterbecause that data was just, yeah, whatever isjust people listening in.
It's kind of morelike a popularity thing. It doesn't matterto me as much. And so, well, with the comparison, let's just first start offwith what's numbers? What is the isthe numbers of downloads that we're gettingare they actually real? And so I don't have all of this,as I mentioned, but I can do a little bit of independentverification for at least the memorial showbecause I have that as and as to sourcesto be able to get it from. One is from the actual bus throughout the hostthat I use and one is fromthis tag called o.P three, which is stands for the OpenPodcasting Prefix project, I believe, and this is maintained by JohnSpurlock, created by him now then what?
What would have been theyou know, let's let's comparethose two numbers the the podcasting numbersand the the numbers of downloadsvia bus sprout, which have an incentiveto kind of show higher onesbecause, you know, then my podcast host,they want to show me doing well versus John'swhich is no it's it's just a thingyou put in your feed a tag and he allows him to kind of collect this dataand he does whatever magic stuff that he doesin the background, I don't know fully,but he's able to get a whole bunch of numbers of how how often your showhas been downloaded.
So if yousee the two graphs here, they kind of looka little bit different in terms of the amountsof downloads on individual days because they should thinkthey would match up roughly. But what we see in totalis that the number of downloadsis about the same 7230 different here, 30different now, doesn't it? Doesn't really matter. So we can definitely see. All right, these numbers seem legit. Let's let's have a look at how much I would have earned through ads through thisthis time period. And so I'm just taking a the I suppose the timeperiod I'm going to use is that quarter three of 2023,which I was talking about and had real goodnumbers from.
I'm just that's the only thingthat I can really look at and do a comparison. So if I take thatfor the Miyamoto show, we had about 20,769downloads for for that month,according to Sprout. If I look at thetotal numbers that I had of people boosting inand the actual amount of income,it was about 575,000 sets, which was equivalentto about $250 Australian. So okay, that's all right. That's acrossthree months. Once again, it's not liveableoff, but it's it's it's got some numbers. It's certainly something now if I wanted to monetiseusing the bus platform, which they dohave in there, this is what itliterally says on them.
You'll get paidfor the monetised downloadsyou serve all ads, pay the same 1.5 cents USDper download. You can apply yourearnings to future bus invoices, blahblah, blah blah blah blah. So we have a numberthat 1.4 $0.04 us deeper downloadthis is about right. So that is equal toabout a $14 CPM cost per mill,which is the typical metric that they use. I've heard numbers, I'veI did a bit of research. Typically it's around that 20 range,that $20 range. Some will be higher,some will be lower. Depends on if you're doing highest reads, depends onif you're doing just a straight up, you know,dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makesabout rough sense to me. So we'll just usethe number that they have, which I know I could getusing using bus prep. So let's do some quickad math with 20,769 downloads, multiply that by the 1.4cents per per download and you get to about 291 USD,which would be 455 AUD. So if we're just doing astraight up comparison of of that, a theoretical comparison,you would say, okay, well value for valueis not as great. That's about half as great than fourfor the mere mortal show. I think there's a lot of assumptions in therebecause they don't. You're not going to get awith the ad model.
You're not going to geta consistent ad placed on each download. So that numberwill be slightly less. And I think there'sa couple of things. But look, let'sjust say for the moment advertising wins, right? And why are you doingthe value for value show? Well, this is just oneset of metrics. And let's jumponto the other main show, which I've been earningrevenue from, which is the valuefor value show. And so similar deal here,we'll look at these stats from July, August and Septemberthat just passed of 2023. So this show is considerably smallerthan the models.
We had about 3000listens, 3008 to be exact, listens across this timeperiod once again, because this is onblueberry, a different hostingplatform. I don't knowif they have ads supportlike like Buzz Sprout did. I didn't I didn't see itin my quick research. Let's justuse the same number of that 1.4 centsper download. This is equal to about 42 USD,which is about 66 AUD. Now, how did I do withthe boost in streaming? Well, significantly more. I got 665,000 from the sets coming in, which is about 283284 AUD. So okay, well, what'sgoing on there this time? Value for valueis is four times as much.
How do you work this out? What's the what'swhat's changed? You know, and I think this is where I'll just end off mymy case study in my comparison hereby just saying my little summary. I guess. So which method is better? Which if you're going togo, if you had to choose between one like only value for valueand only adds, my general takeawaywould be if you've got a smallershow, I probably would sayvalue for values is going to work best. I would almost certainly say value for valueis going to work best. Advertisersare not interested in doing advertisementson small shows.
It's too hard to monitor. It's too hard to make sure that the ads are being servedcorrectly, and the amount of peoplejust listening just doesn't makesense for them to do that. If youhave a small niche show related to a topicthat you particularly love and there is onlyan addressable market of, you know, a thousand peoplein the world who are interestedin this topic and which is kind of what you can dowith podcasting. I saw a show recentlywhich was highlighted for its uniqueness, which was the amount of water being wastedin food production, and it was someone going on a deep diveto figure out how much water is being wasted.
You know, that's an incredibly,incredibly niche podcast. Are they going to be ableto get millions of downloads for for people listeninginto that unlikely, but there would besome people who would be reallyinterested in that show and I thinkwould be willing to contributeto that show. If you created one which was fascinatingenough for people toto listen to. So typically what I would say isI think that small shows value for value easily wins and that thatis the correct way to go. If you're gettingto a medium sized showlike the Me and Models, you're probably goingto have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again,we've chosen a very niche path of of saying like,you know, come support usthrough the these new apps, comesupport us using Bitcoin. It's it'shard. It's difficult. And so with a broad showlike that, like we have there,which is addressed more to aa broader audience because of the waywe've done it, we've we've certainly made it harder. If we had used PayPalfrom the very start, I'm almost certainthat that number would have been closerto the ad section to the to the ad numbers. So, you know, insteadof having only received 246 four for that quarterthat we just passed would be closer to the 455that theoretically we couldhave got through ads.
So I think the for kind oflike a medium show like us, which is getting, you know, roughly 100 to 300 downloadsper episode or something like that, I would say, you know,either's kind of good. Just take your pickwhich one you want to do when you're getting up to the really,really large shows. This is whereI'm once again, you know, I'm kind of having to gobased on feel now, even though John,John C Dvorak and Adam Currie can do it, they've got a super, superlarge show. They're getting close to a million downloadsper episode. I would say they wouldprobably make more if they just went throughthe advertising group because you can just if with a show like that,it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's,there's a tension, there's attractioncoming in. I feel like you could kindof negotiate that to it to a higher levelthan what they're receiving now the pay you knowwhat would be the the downside tothat is well, they would haveresponsibilities in terms of advertisersthat would have to make sure that they're not sayingcertain things that would perhaps goagainst the advertisers. This is where I think you encountera lot of the problems, which I see with with advertising model is,you know, self-censorship, relying on that oneor two big advertisers to support your show of just trading,I guess, security of having you know,you almost certainly know how much you're goingto get per month using advertising because they havethese guarantees like you're guaranteed to get this at the least,this much more perhaps if certainepisodes do better.
And then that's where it'slike I think I think that probably you'll earn more, but you're goingto have to decide on the trade offsfor that. Do you feel comfortable putting adsin front of your show? Are you willing to dolots of meetings with advertisers to make sure that they're happy withhow the show is performing and all of thesesorts of things? So yeah, that's that'sjust one section there. I also seeone in the chat here saying Devil's advocate,if for those 2.25 years we had instead focussed on advertisingand not boosting, so then targetingour show to popularity, I guess inthe short term it's likely we could have gottenmore money.
But at what cost inthe long run is my answer. So in that case, yes,you're if you are creating a show and and you're making itand you want to create the most moneyfrom advertising, it does need to be nicheto a certain audience because certain audiencesare more likely to spend. I think the the mostdesirable is about I think it's youngmen from 20 to 35 is the biggest spender category. And then probably afterthat would be young womenand then after that it would be like oldergenerations. I think that is the and yeah, there's a whole lot of thingsthat go into this. So.
Oh, I won't,I won't dive down that rabbit hole becausethat that's a deep one. I could, I could talkabout that for a while. So we'll leave itat that for the moment and instead let'sgo on to some, to Graham's Welcome to theValue for Value Booster Graham Lounge. I've got a coupleof things coming in here becauseI've got a live one in. I got to call them out.Thank you very much. Adam Currygot the bat signal and he sent 10,000SATs sent using pod verse. Thank you very much, Adam. So yeah, maybehe can comment in and and tell meif he thinks if, if he had gonethrough advertising and assuming he'd gotten the same amountof people listening to a no agenda,which he almost certainly wouldn't havebecause the advertiser would have started to,it would have drove away other people and drawnin certain others.
But let's just assumehe got the same amount. I would love to know. I would love toknow if if he thinks that he would have earnedmore just in straight up numbersthrough advertising. Obviouslythe value for value model relieson so much more and relies this so much more valuewhich is not captured monetarilyin this easy form, but which actually isvaluable. People creating a website. People like this. Peter the Slav who sent me in thisthis document which I still usefor my chapters, and I would have hadto pay someone to like create some coding or do some thingsto be able to just copyand paste stuff, you know, is it saving?
It's it's money, but it's an A, it'sa different form. And so it's very hardto capture. But yes,thank you very much, Adam. So, yes, as a reminder of everyone,I am live as of 10 a.m. Australian EasternStandard Time on a Wednesday,which is UTC midnight. Wherever you arein the world on that Tuesdayand Wednesday. So just plus or minus your your time zonefrom the universal coordinated time, youI would say UTC and yeah yeahthat would be the way to to join in lifeand send in a boost live just like Mr. Adam Currythe father has done there. Let's jump back into theprevious booster Grahams.
We've got Sam Sethimaking a whole bunch of paymentssent through pod fans. Once again, check outthe progressive Web app because you willget at the live bat signal if you are if you have if you're a fan of the mere mortalsor of the sorry, if you're a fanof the values of our show, you will definitely get that out and get thatthat app is it's going to do some cool things. So this is alreadyvery slick to play around with itthe other day and yeah, looking very, very nice. We also have here Gene,being from the last show from the volunteertechnologists which I talked aboutand highlighted his chat with Mitchis now out.
Please check it out. It's it'svery fascinating. It says great showand thanks for the shout out 2222sent using custom medic. Thank you very much Genemy man Much appreciated We've got here Sir Spencerwho is of the the wolf of I think he calls himselfthe Wolf of Kansas City. Yeah that's it. Who from ball after bowl. He says appreciate itthe self hosting Shout it. Anyone can do itif they decide they want to 6969Neon sent using pod verse. He lovesthe meme numbers. He does and at using pod verse. Of course, the the open source app,which I was talking about. And then this is onewhere it's it's I, I struggle with thisand so I probably say something's wrong sometimes and so he's, it's got another boostsent in here once again 6969using pod verse Thank you.
And he says,I think many people who are technicallyinclined still identify itas non-technical just becausethey're more advanced, just because there are more advanced areasor aspects of tech we use thatwe don't fully understand. Hearing you identifyas non-technical is like hearing someonewho changes their own oil sayingthey're not a big car guy because they can'trebuild an engine. And then he's got the emojiwith the beta sweat on it. You've been you've been out hererunning with scissors too, and every day isa learning experience. You're a technical guy, whether you believe itor not.
Karen So thank you. Thank you very much. I think that'sa compliment. Thankyou. Thank you. Spencer. My problem, I suppose, ismy my way of communicating my dislikeof of of problem solving when it comesto technology, I find itincredibly frustrating. I find it almost anxiety producingat times, to be honest, because it feels veryhidden behind the scenes. Like what? Why is this thingthat was working has suddenly stopped? For example, the USB port on my laptop has suddenly stoppedworking. I try to do a bit of a fixin case it was a drive, a thing that didn't work.
But there's still options that it could beor it could be a an actual hardwaredefault. Some dusters got in. I don't know. What do I do with that? I don't like thatexperience. That pisses me offto no end. So when I saynon-technical, I what I mean is I don't havethat intuitive talent nor the desireto fully dive down into these things. But yes, in a in a wayI am because I obviously have gotten very deepinto the booster cramming, all of thesesorts of things whichother people would say are no, andthat's super technical. I could never be ableto do that.
So I yeah,I do appreciate that. I suppose it's the paradox,the paradox of life that even thoughI don't feel like I am, perhapsI perhaps I actually am. But in any case, he had actually justa great chat with Steven Bell from CureCosta of the Music Side Project of the Splitkit of Ellen Beats Fame. So the guy whoI was talking about really on the Value forValue Music episodebecause he does so much, he had a great chatwith him and they talked a lotabout coding and this kind of aspectof of trying to do things foryourself, self hosting. And yeah,I would recommend checking that out.
Oh, I'll puta link in this episode. And then he says, Have you heard No agenda, no brand willadvertise with us and we would have beenDemonetised years ago. 10,000That sent using podcast. I have, I have Adam. I've tunedinto a few episodes. Yeah it's this isI guess the tricky thing, right with the,with the ability to to try and do thesetheoretical numbers. You know I came upwith some numbers just before of 245versus 455. That 455 is it's a it's a vapour,it's a wisp of air. It's it'snot a real tangible thing. It's a it's a guesstimate. And I it could very,very wildly I've heard advertising ratesbeing double that 1.4%.
So does that mean that that numbershould be doubled? And I've also heard itbe significantly less and I'm assuming it'sbeing on this end as you as so many assumptionsthat come into this. This is where I wouldprobably maybe recommendfor someone who is. All right,the starting of the podcastfor the first time. And they they'rereally enjoying it. Perhaps they're getting some listeners coming inand they're like, okay, well, I would love toat least recoup some of the costsof hosting and things like this.What should I do? I would definitelyrecommend, you know, attempting value for valueat the very least.
And I'm going to talk about my tips sectionabout how you do that. And this is where,you know, where we're on onto the tipssection. So you showswill do better if you adopt certain tactics andif you do certain things. Now, you heard mementioning before, and if you lookedat the graphs, you'll see the current WestEnd is in Spanglish. You said you hadfour shows, but you only you only put in boostingamounts for three of them. Well, if you look at thedates of things. So the first the first boostto Graham we received received from Chadf was on the Yeah.
That end of Julyperiod of 2021, I stopped the crazinessin Spanglish right around that same period. It was July Augustof that of that same year. So what had been happening was obviouslyI was doing a show not as Innocent Spanglish,the book reviews, but I never mentionedthe boost branding or any of the valuefor value stuff because I didn'teven know about it. I had never heard of itbefore. So even though I subsequently laterput in the value block and had the abilityfor people to boost and I never talkedabout it, so I never gota single cent, I never got a singleSatoshi from from anyone doing that. So what youwill notice is that for value, for valueto really work, you have to adopt certaintactics and certain things will will work betterand incentivise people to come in.
Much likeAdam was saying here, you know his show,No Agenda. It got very popular because they haveno agenda, they don't have advertising,they don't have people telling them what they can and can't say whether it be in a strongform or a very soft form. They don't have that. And so the tacticsthat they have come up with or tactics perhapseven is a strong word, the the natural progressionof their show turned into thingsthat would enable people to to boost it up, to boostand to to send money to send valueto their show. And so what are the someof these things? Well, look, the book reviews,I didn't even bother to do any graphsor things related to that.
Why It's becauseI've received so little from that. And then you can go,okay, well, why have you receivedso little from that card? Well,this is how I have done the bookreviews in the past. I would pre-record itso it would usually be recordeda week or two in advance because it required meactually reading the book and keeping on top ofthis is rather hard. So I would justpost it out. I would have the callto action at the end. Hey, please boost into the showif you want to. Like if you if yougot value from this. But I never had any realgood feedback loop. And soI started doing this live one thatI would do once a month that the recap where I could address all the booster Grahams that had receivedin that past month.
Now is this great for incentivefor people to boost in? Well, not reallybecause they'll boost in. And then it'sonly a month later that I'm reallytalking about it. So what I would say here is some of the tipsfor for someone who is creating valuefor value. So, number one,first you have to ask, make sure you askand make sure that you let people know thatit's a value for value so they can send inhowever much they want to. And we're just focusingon the treasure aspect here,the money aspect of it. Make sure that you ask and make surethat people know how to do itand that they can send in whatever amount they wantthat they value.
That is a critical one. You need to make thethe feedback loop as tight as possible. And so when they, you know, boost in orwhen they send in a PayPal or wheneverthey do something, they're sending youin cash or whatever the acknowledgementshould come in the next episodeif possible. And so this is where havinga really tight feedback loop is is best. So you still canprerecord, but it's better to pre-record, you know, one day in advanceinstead of two weeks like I was doingfor the book reviews. Another one live is areally weird motivator. We just seen AdamCurry here boost in a whole bunch,and I can see him also streaming and paymentsat the same time, which is really,really cool.
If you look at thingslike twitch streamers or even those NPClive streamers that you seen on Tik Tok, which I find sofascinating, has such a coolsubject subgenre. And so this is whereit will be a girl with a camerain front of her and people will send in a it's like an emoji. It's like a reaction, which actually she canexchange for money. And so if they sendan ice cream on, she goes, ice cream. So good, yum, yum, yum. And obviously this is, you know,what is the value that people are gettingfrom that? Well, it'sbecause it's live. They do some action and someone on the otherside of the world responds to that anddoes something with me.
It was with Adamjust right now. It was metalking about his show. It was me talking about somethingthat he messaged me super, super cool. And it's the same it's the same aspectthat's going on with these live streamers,these twitch's twitch people and stuff. There's just something about the live experience whichwhich people really enjoy. And so then we go liveis is another one, I think creating a bettershow, making it more easy to for people, easierfor people to to boost in, to contribute to the show. So having the funding tag within your actual shownodes doing, having the value blocks is set upso that if someone is listeningvia a podcasting app, they can do it directlywithin the app.
All of these thingscreating better show with chapter art and imagesand things like this. I think all of that is very useful,essential as well. And then the final one,consistency is critical as passive income. I'm I'm coming to the conclusionthat passive income is a largely a myth just because you createa show which hasevergreen content, I don't think thatmeans that you're going to get peoplegoing back and listening, much like music royalties,where if you create one really big show, one really big hit, you can live off thatfor the rest of your life. I'm not sure the samewill work in podcasting.
I don't think thatthe intangible qualities that music have of people just listeningto something like 5100 times in a row,which I have done with certain songs, I don't think the sameis going to happen with podcastingand a podcast episode, no matter how viralit goes, no matter how interestingthat one episode is, I don't I don't think thatthat passive income, you're going to get the same as perhapsyou could with a a hit a music hit, a songwhich just really, you know, somethinglike Stairway to Heaven, which is just going to it's it's stuckaround for so long. So in thiscase, the consistency is you have to keep doing it.
You have to keepputting out a show, as Adam Curry has done for six years, with no agenda,as I have basically been doing with my threeor four shows for, well, three showsnow that a person is is no longer activefor a long time. And so yeah, that'sthat's another one. The The passive income I thinkis is largely a myth the app and servicehighlight for for today. Let's jump onto that let'swrap this up if you haven't used OPI three, I would definitely recommendchecking it out if you want to see the statisticsand real granular things. So if you once again,if you check out yourchapter right now, there'sall sorts of things that he's got going onthere.
He's got thewhat was this called? It was likethe episodes over time. So you can really see how the episodesare performing. Typically you'll see itlike really shoot up straight awayand then have this long, long tail of peoplegradually listening in. He's got such detailedstatistics there of, you know, which appsare people using, where are they listeningfrom in the world? Which certain countriesare once again talkingabout non-technical? I don't know how he gets all of this stuff,but he does. The the thing withall of this is you, it's a o.p three dot dev is way you should goto to check out more.
And it providesall sort of free data because it's open. So once again,you have to be comfortable with someone comingand looking at that. And because anyone canlook at it, this data is outin the open. So once again open source check outthe last episode. So what I would say,ask your host to put in the necessary permissioninto your RSS feed. It's actually relatively simple,and I think most hosts would bewilling to do that and it can yet just getinto real granular info. So I would recommendchecking that out. I've just got a commenthere from one Disagree. Passiveincome from podcasts works very well for large podcasters out therewith evergreen content.
Tim Ferriss has talkedabout this in the past with some of his olderpodcasts. Okay, I didn't know that. Perhaps that's theexception, not the rule. Also, the repostingof old content, say five years laterwith no edit. Does that count aspassive income? Yeah, I get kind of it's it's not. Yeah,it's not an active effort but certainlyit's older stuff which I guess you could. Yeah. YeahI'll, I'll, I'll allow it. I'll allow it one. So yeah I supposethat's a, that's an idea as wellthere. If you, if you justrepost old stuff that kind of can play intothat consistency aspect.
But yeah. Look. Well just from our numbersI can say people have not beenboosting older episodes. It's, it's, it's episodeswhich are the current the recent ones. Yeah. Well we'll have to see. We'll have to grow our show biggerand then be allowed to do that. Let's,let's wrap it up here. Value for value. Who am I going to give 15%to this episode? I'm going to give itto John Spurlock for for creatingthe open three dot dev. He does a lot of I have used some of his graphs before such in thethe podcasting 2.0 ecosystem that episodeis it growing. I used a coupleof his graphs and now obviouslyI put in run four for that episode.
So this is kind of a little goodfor that as well. And yeah, he, it's in podcasting2.0 value for value. It only workswhen tons of people are contributingwhen we all get together. I know thisepisode has been very much focussedon the money aspect which people certainlyare interested in, but the whole show, this whole showis very much about other the other aspects of that,the connection with your audience, it's about the different ways thatpeople can contribute. It's about, it's, it's about totallychanging your mindset away from extractivevalue of people need to get thisit's a zero sum game to a a non-zero-sum game.
We cannot the pie can grow and we can all be happierand better. So final thoughts fromthis Just for me. ObviouslyI'm not at this stage yet where it isa full time income. I'm going to workas hard as I can to make that happen. And if if after like ten years I haven't made it, I'll have to just admit,like, you know what? I just wasn't ableto create enough value for for people for this tobecome a full time thing. And podcasting will would thereforeremain a hobby for me. But I'm going to fuckingtry really hard. And what I've found from just my own personal life is typically when I tendto stick with things and I stick with themfor years and years, I get better at it.
And, and it does tend to justall work out in the end. So thank you very much,everyone, for for joining in time,Talent and treasure. I would saysharing this episode with the digital creator, well, particularlywith a smaller podcaster, I think would be immenselyvaluable for them. Just so they can getsome rough numbers, they can comparethat to where they're at. All ofthis is rough, of course. And but and knowit's niche. It depends on your show and all of thatsort of thing. But I thinkjust having some numbers sometimescan can help people out. And then obviously comingand joining in live like Juan and Adam, it issuper, super fun talent.
Is there anything I can do to make this show better? One was just say ofthe audio quality is crisp, clear, which is great because Ihave been working on that, have been also workingon fixing up my studio, getting a little bitmore soundproofing. No, still soundproofing. What's it called? There's a wordfor making it not completely soundproof,but for just reducing reverb and echo andall that sort of stuff. Resources thatare similar to the overlap of these bookrecommendations. Anything that I've saidthat spark some ideas topic suggestions you would like meto cover, please send thosein via Instagram.
I would really love that. Or you can reach out via any of the social links that are downbelow as well. And then finally,the treasure. Look, of courseI have to talk about the podcasting appsand the booster grams. That'sthat's the main thing that I've beentalking about. So new podcastapp stock com or if you go to Miyamoto's podcast dotcom slash support I've got a littleexplanation there of of how you can usea new podcasting app to to helpsupport into the show. If you don'twant to do that if you don't wanta new podcasting app if you go to the podcastindex website and and boost in there that will value all of the splitsthat I'm putting up.
And sothat would be awesome. So check out valuefor the number four value on the podcastindex website, or you can do it to me directly at CARand I get all VidCon. I'd preferyou wouldn't do that because I want to to send the value onto everyone else who are in my splits. But if you have to, you can alsodo it there and yeah, yeah. Well we'll leave itat that a couple of just littlemake goods as well. I misspoke the other weekthere. As of nowthere are four episodes left of this season. I will then probably takea small short break, maybe a month, maybe less, and then get backinto it for season four, because I am really,really enjoying doing these Valleyfor Value episodes.
And there was another clarificationfrom the Ipfs podcasting. I said thatyour favourite a feed. I'm sorryI said that your favourite an episode on that. I meant that you favouritefeed. Just a random littleclarification there but yeah, thank you.Thank you for that. Thank you for everyoneAdam and Swan for joining me inlive. Very, very cool. I much appreciate itand I would yeah just leave it there to next week'sepisode is going to be it's going to bea bit of a different one. I'm not exactly surehow it's going to work in termsof the live component because I'm going to beusing my phone to really I want to dolike a showcasing of all of these differentapps and their features.
Bruce Diagramminghow you can do what it kind oflooks like. So it's going to bevery much dominant on the video aspect,which obviously I can't do here on a live audio show. So there'll be a video thatwill come out afterwards. So that one it will betalking about the the apps themselvesand some of these comparisonsand things like that. So yeah, a little heads up therefor what to expect and yeah, I really hope you're havinga fantastic day wherever you arein the world. Thanks for joining mefor this longer episode Chao for now, Kyrin out.
Can you earn a living justthrough value for value? Welcome everyoneto another episode of the Valuefor Value podcast. My name is Kyrin. Host of the Mere Mortalsand Mere Mortals Book Reviews podcast,but also, well, actuallyalso the value for value. And another one calledReseñas in Spanglish, but we'll get on tothat soon. This is the podcastfor those digital creators who want to havea deeper connection with their audience and also be ableto monetise that. And in this episodein particular, we're really going to be focusingon the monetisation.
I've talkeda lot about value before, but this time we're going to talk about many, many,many, many, many and whether you couldbe able to go full time using the valuefor value model, because I'vetalked about it a lot but haven't really providedmany case examples of people who have gonethis full route and whether this isactually the route to try and go full timeor if you want to do something else. So we'll we'll lookat that in particular. I've got a lot of graphsand I can tell you my personal experience and I've got a lot of data to back up what I'm goingto be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jumpinto it and jump into it. So I think to start offwith probably the scariest thingabout value for value apart from firststarting to ask, which is reallyuncomfortable saying because it kind of feels like you're begging like,Oh, please, please helpsupport the show. It's it kind of feels like,oh my God, Like, oh, it's it'slike I'm begging for it. Once you get over thatbarrier, which I have talked aboutin previous episodes, I think the next one is that there'sno guarantees. And so it's really ayou just have to start start tryingand and see how it goes.
And there's no fixed income,there is no contracts, There is no the there's nothingwritten and set in stone. And so in this case it'slike, well, how do you how do I knowif it even works? So to start off with,there is one big case example,and this is no agenda, so no agenda is Adam Curryand Jonsi, the work show, which they have donefor 16 years now. They started off a long time ago and they have proventhat it works. Absolutely. They they dosolely value for value. No ads, only supportedby the people listeners. They call themproducers at home. And they don't have paywalls, don'thave anything like that.
And they've been doing itfor a long time and have been ableto support themselves. And if yougo into their show and listento the amount of donations coming in, it's a fairbit of money. You can go, okay, yes,definitely. These these guys are ableto support themselves and their familiesthrough this, but they are a huge,huge outlier. I went on a little discovery journeywith their show because I didn't actually really enjoythe show that much. It's talking about newsand media, which I'm I'm kind of iffy about,don't really care and politics. And but I was just sayinglike, okay, how do they stop this off?
What was it like for them And just from the get go,you know, you're a huge outlierif you're getting 100,000 listeners per episode beforeyou've even published 50, which is whatthey had now. They were, you know, both of them were well known, successful before theywere doing podcasting, but they were doing itwhen the podcasting wasn't a saturated marketor when there was certainlya lot less people. All of these reasonsyou can go, okay, they're a bitof an outlier official. And so when I look at othertypes of shows which have adopted the valuesfor value, a lot of them come from theNo agenda sort of nation becausethey heard about it there.
This is wherethe model was created. And when I look at them, most of them I would saya kind of hobbyist shows. I haven't found one,but I'm certain that yes, they're doing thisfull time as well. And so I wanted to know,you know, is this going to workfor someone who is wanting to go fulltime? Will this work for someonewho really has a passion for podcasting? And so we'll justlive in it to podcasting here and not go into the othertypes of digital media. If someone is a podcasterand wanting to do this, can they actually goabout doing this? What are some data sets?
Do we have any casestudies? Can is there any wayto kind of predict if this is possible? And so I have decidedto do that myself. So I really wantto become a podcast. That's the onlything I really want to do, engineering, whichis what I used to do, not my cup of tea. I would rather not do thatif possible. And so I have give youa little bit of backstory here of my historyof of podcasting. So I have four main shows. The first one was meremodels, the kind of like flagship one. This is what I started in September of 2019with my co-host one. I had another show called Prisonersin Spanglish, which I startedin December of 2020, and this was whereI would do book reviews,but in Spanish, and I call it Spanglish because my Spanish Spanishis my second night, my second language.
I'm not native in it. There was a lot of arms and hoursand certainly times where I would just sayan English word because I didn't knowthe Spanish equivalent. I had another showcalled Me and Models book reviews,which I suppose technically startedon February of 2021. It actually startedmuch earlier in termsof producing actual book reviews,but these were in the Miyamoto's feed. And so it was all of February 2021where we broke it up. And so once again,I do this with Juan, but I'm I'm the main one.I do most of the reading and that goes intoit went into its own feed.
And so technicallythat was when the mad Models bookreview started. And then the valuefor value show started. The very oneyou listening to right now of August of 2021. So those are the four podcaststhat I had in an RSS feed. I had another video type one,which was a play around thing,but nothing serious. And so all of thesehave had the access for ability to for people to boost into the show,to contribute back what has happenedacross these four shows. We're now sitting hereor the 4th of October 20, 23. So jeez,what a solid two years from all of them at least, and four years from the mainme, a modest one.
What hashappened from that and how would I have compared if I had gone through what you would saymaybe is the standard route of advertising. And the good thingfor all of you, dear listeners at home,is that I am a nerd. I mentioned I'm an engineerand so I collect data. I really,really like data. And so what have I done? I've collectedall of the data from everythingthat we have received in terms of contributions from fromthe minimal lights at arm, as well as whatwe call them. And the. Yep, I will I'll just start listing off some of this hereso you can get an idea.
And I wanted to break down I supposeright at the start here, the difference betweenstreaming and boosting and the different paymentmethods. And so we have focussedvery heavily on the ability to do paymentsthrough digital money, through Bitcoin. So this is the, the streaming and the boost which I've talked about inprevious episodes, and we have only veryrecently kind of set up a PayPal linkfor someone to send Fiat moneyif they wanted to. And so most of all of this data is actuallyfrom the boosting because that's, that'swhat we've focussed on. That's what we wantedpeople to do.
So value for value onceagain, is not Bitcoin. It is not sending thingsthrough these apps and and online like that. It is people contributingvalue back. But because we that iswhat we're focussed upon, That is what we havereceived. So we actually don't haveany free fiat payments to to speak of. And if we had focussedupon that I'm sure, sure we would have. So that's just a caveatthere to start with. And this is the numbers. So if you lookon your screen now and I would encourage youto get a podcasting app which allows youto do that because there's going to be a lot of dataand graphs appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for this would be somethinglike pod fans like Cura. Let's start with mobilepod fans on the mobile. They've got a new progressive web app,which is really cool. I would also encourage youto look on Fountain and on, which iseven podcast addict. I know he brings it up. I know pod verse brings itup, breeze brings it up anyway,where you can get chapters and you can see things inyour phone would be valuablefor, for this. And so if you look on the top boxhere, I've got as of April 1st, 2023. So this is where I had a big collationof all the data.
And you can see I've split it up into three differentshows there. The main models,the book reviews and the value for value. And I've also split it up into the boostingand streaming altogether as of April 1st, 2023,you had about 4.36 million satoshis coming in. And from now on I've been doing thesekind of quarterly reports. And so skippingquarter to 2023, we just passed quarter three, which is as asof the end of September. And once again, if you look on your screenthere, you can see I've split itup into July, August, September and got a real nichewith the details.
How many sets per show or in terms of boostingin terms of streaming, converting thisinto Australian dollars. What was the total fromthat quarter? Three, We had 1.26 millionand so the first thing that really stands outhere is streaming amounts are typicallyabout 10 to 13% of the total that comes in. And the boosting the SES messagesor one time payments which someone has sent inare about 87 to 90%. So you can see, okay, most of the revenue is coming in viathe boosting. So why is this and I guess I yeah, it's definitely heavilyskewed towards it, not necessarilywith the messages and and why is thisand is this necessarily a good or a bad thing.
The one of the thingsthat got me really into the programmable moneythe the aspect of people being able to supportin the podcasting app which just makes senseif you want to do it, you shouldn'thave to go out to different linksand click on all these things,like it's best to be able to do itwithin the actual app. It was all, you know,I could there's this real appeal that people could payfor the back catalogue, as in,I've got all of this, all of these thingsset up. What if someoneis going back and finding the models for the first time that going backto the very first episode and they're listeningall the way through, Oh my God, they could.
They could actually,you know, be paying me that whole timeas as they're doing that. Isn't that awesome? And thatwas a thought in my mind. Have I actually seen that?No, no, that doesn't typicallytended to happen. And I think perhapsa difference from this is is something like I was thinking of thisas as in music royalty. You just create it one timeand then you can kind of get paid foreverperpetually. Wouldn't that be awesome? As long as it is popular? So what?What's the difference? Is my contentjust not evergreen enough? Are peoplejust not going back to the very first episodesand listening in?
Are they just. Yeah. Is itjust something that's that's not valuable enoughto do that? I actually think it'sa different reason. I actually think it'sbecause of the mechanisms for for doing this is is actually quite different and that the incentivesfor people boosting and contributing tothe show is is not is not necessarilyrelated to past content. It's moreabout the current stuff. And so you can ask, okaywhy do people boost. That's obviously the main thingthat's that's driving it. That's driving, I suppose,revenue into the show. If you want to call itvalue, let's call it that.
And the main reason is becauseof the feedback loop. And so whatyou see on your screen now here is justa collection of our four biggest supportersand then also a list of every supporter that who who has contributedto the show of about a thousand setsor more. Those couple of peopleright on the on the boundary point,who I included in. And so what can you seefrom this? Well, the collective supportis what I've labelled all of the streamingpayments coming in. And so this is actually our third biggest supporter in termsof of raw numbers. And we have two people,Peter the Bull, the Booster, the Slav, and Dave Jones,who's been very supportive of my particular showfrom podcasting to Pono, and then Chris Fishercoming in in the fourth positionfrom Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been, you know, some of ourbiggest supporters. And if you just tallied up the numbers, if you justlook at Dave and Peter together, they are about about half of the amountwe've totally we've received in total. I'll talk aboutthe total numbers in the in the next chapter, but there are roughly 3million sets is about half of whatwe've received coming in. And this is where it'sgoing. Like, okay, well how should I look at this in terms of like,is this actually one? One of the things I have saidabout the value for value model is it kind ofdecentralised?
You know,you're not relying on one particularadvertising company that could just pullthe rug away at any moment or they go bankrupt or this is one of the aspects about the valuefor value model, which is is is a nice thing. But then I look at thisand I go, Oh, well I've got two peoplewho have contributed half of everythingthat we've received. Isn't that super risky? And it is, it is kind of. But when I think about this as well,I go, you know, there is now 82 differentpeople who have contributedvarying amounts of of of supportthrough to the show. There was a periodwhere Peter was just boostingand tons and tons and tons as of the like the last six months yearhe dropped off and you knowwhat actually happened?
Otherpeople started to step up. We had other people new time is coming inboosting in. I actually saw a new a new namejust boosting into the models literallyabout 10 minutes to go. And the the thingthat works with a value for value is it kind ofjust works out in the end. Adam talks about thisa lot, which is it'skind of frustrating if you if you don't have any data or numbers to back this up because it's like,what do you mean? It just works outin the end? But, butI think the thing is it works in the sense that if you continue to providegood value, it it willpeople will step up, People will notice this,they will contribute.
And if you ask for it, and if you make it knownand apparent that they needto contribute, they will. And I have the numbersto back this up and on. I'll talk about thatin a second. So yeah, is it risky? Yes. But I feel like thisunequal distribution is always going to occur no matter whatyou're doing. I'm I'm almost certain it's the samefor no agenda there. Top 510 producersis what they call them. They would be dwarfingthe amount of other contributionsthat they have received. But if it all goes up,then it all goes up. You know, the top boosters, the top people supportingwill support more.
And then those oneswho at the moment are supporting for us, you know, a thousand sets,which is what, 40 Australian cents,something like that, that thatcan actually change to, you know, 10,000and then it'll be $4. It's like,oh, okay, awesome. That's, that's cool. That's something new,something interesting. So let's jump onto the next sectionhere, which was okay,It's been about to 2.25, two years and a quarter since I found outabout all of this. So first of all, in termsof like total numbers and things, the four yearsthat I've been doing podcastingwith the models, it's only been 2.25 yearssince we've actually allowed anyoneto to send stuff in to us because we werejust doing it somewhat as a hobbyat the start with getting more serious during the COVID timesand realising, yeah, like this is something thatat least me personally, that I want to dofull time.
And one I think in the very future would, wouldperhaps want to as well. And so it's only been 2.25years. So since aroundJuly of 2021, since we've allowedpeople to contribute. And as I mentioned,that was mostly just through thethe actual method of and the micropaymentswithin the apps. And it's only the PayPalthat we've we'vestarted doing recently. And you can tell itbasically captured me straight awaythis, this micropayment aspect of using Bitcoin to be able to do itwithin the apps because how we received our firstbooster Graham payment coming in it was yeah.
Aroundthe end of July of 2021 and as I mentioned I started the valuefor value show in August of 2021. So it was pretty muchinstantly where I was like,Holy shit, I think this is a game changer and I need to knowmore about this and create a podcastto help learn for myself and then to to teach other peoplewhat this is all about. So here's a graph down the bottomyou can see starting from quarterthree of 2021, and then it goesfor each quarter. So we've got one,two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,nine data points there. And this is a cumulativegraph of of how much with and and so you can see at the very startand we received, you know, about 200,000sets.
Okay. That was that was kind of coolfor all four of those paymentscoming in and then but but you knowrelatively nothing and then Q4, it'sgetting to about 500,000. So about the same thing to Q1 of 2020 to 700000. And you can just seethe graph is just steadily becoming higher and higher and and more amounts. And so what I'm kindof hoping to see that this will eventuallybecome exponential. And so as of the end of September of 2023,so as of four days ago, we had received6,362,678 SATs and total. And this is across all of the various showsbecause I collate them, I add them all uptogether.
And so whatwe can see with that is, okay, how much is that6.3, 6 million sets. That's about theequivalent of 2,800 AUD. So for what, two and 2.25years worth of of effort, two and a half. Let's just saythree grand, you know, that's certainlynot enough to live off. No way. I even as frugal as I am, that's that'snot enough to live off. But is this the fault ofvalue for value, though? Or what's going on here? Where would I be if we had actually usedads instead? Because it's importantto remember the showsthat I have the models, the value for value of the bookreviews as of this very moment, you would notdescribe them as big shows unless you werea new podcaster coming in and being like, Oh my God,how do you get more than threeor four downloads per day?
Which I have been welland truly been there. I'm not I'm not receivinglike tons and tons and tons of views onor listens to 20 of these. And so I can back this upbecause I have data for all of these things. So let's starta comparison. We've got a set number2.25 years. How how would I havecompared if I had been usingadvertising in this time time period? And unfortunately,I won't be able to go that far back because the this comparisonis going to be tricky. Whenever you startdoing hypotheticals, you have to try and figureout, okay, like what is the the actual number?
First of all,what are the actual numbers themselves? Second of all, how can youcompare these numbers? Are they actually going toto be working properly? And and what is,I suppose, the hidden assumptionsthat you're you're maybe not realisingare in the back there. And so with these, with these I'mgoing to basically give the caveat here. I've moved the podcastaround multiple times and so numbers of downloadsand things like that have changeddramatically. I've lost numbersfrom that. So that's the kind of data I haven'tbeen able to collect and it also didn't matterbecause that data was just, yeah, whatever isjust people listening in.
It's kind of morelike a popularity thing. It doesn't matterto me as much. And so, well, with the comparison, let's just first start offwith what's numbers? What is the isthe numbers of downloads that we're gettingare they actually real? And so I don't have all of this,as I mentioned, but I can do a little bit of independentverification for at least the memorial showbecause I have that as and as to sourcesto be able to get it from. One is from the actual bus throughout the hostthat I use and one is fromthis tag called o.P three, which is stands for the OpenPodcasting Prefix project, I believe, and this is maintained by JohnSpurlock, created by him now then what?
What would have been theyou know, let's let's comparethose two numbers the the podcasting numbersand the the numbers of downloadsvia bus sprout, which have an incentiveto kind of show higher onesbecause, you know, then my podcast host,they want to show me doing well versus John'swhich is no it's it's just a thingyou put in your feed a tag and he allows him to kind of collect this dataand he does whatever magic stuff that he doesin the background, I don't know fully,but he's able to get a whole bunch of numbers of how how often your showhas been downloaded.
So if yousee the two graphs here, they kind of looka little bit different in terms of the amountsof downloads on individual days because they should thinkthey would match up roughly. But what we see in totalis that the number of downloadsis about the same 7230 different here, 30different now, doesn't it? Doesn't really matter. So we can definitely see. All right, these numbers seem legit. Let's let's have a look at how much I would have earned through ads through thisthis time period. And so I'm just taking a the I suppose the timeperiod I'm going to use is that quarter three of 2023,which I was talking about and had real goodnumbers from.
I'm just that's the only thingthat I can really look at and do a comparison. So if I take thatfor the Miyamoto show, we had about 20,769downloads for for that month,according to Sprout. If I look at thetotal numbers that I had of people boosting inand the actual amount of income,it was about 575,000 sets, which was equivalentto about $250 Australian. So okay, that's all right. That's acrossthree months. Once again, it's not liveableoff, but it's it's it's got some numbers. It's certainly something now if I wanted to monetiseusing the bus platform, which they dohave in there, this is what itliterally says on them.
You'll get paidfor the monetised downloadsyou serve all ads, pay the same 1.5 cents USDper download. You can apply yourearnings to future bus invoices, blahblah, blah blah blah blah. So we have a numberthat 1.4 $0.04 us deeper downloadthis is about right. So that is equal toabout a $14 CPM cost per mill,which is the typical metric that they use. I've heard numbers, I'veI did a bit of research. Typically it's around that 20 range,that $20 range. Some will be higher,some will be lower. Depends on if you're doing highest reads, depends onif you're doing just a straight up, you know,dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makesabout rough sense to me. So we'll just usethe number that they have, which I know I could getusing using bus prep. So let's do some quickad math with 20,769 downloads, multiply that by the 1.4cents per per download and you get to about 291 USD,which would be 455 AUD. So if we're just doing astraight up comparison of of that, a theoretical comparison,you would say, okay, well value for valueis not as great. That's about half as great than fourfor the mere mortal show. I think there's a lot of assumptions in therebecause they don't. You're not going to get awith the ad model.
You're not going to geta consistent ad placed on each download. So that numberwill be slightly less. And I think there'sa couple of things. But look, let'sjust say for the moment advertising wins, right? And why are you doingthe value for value show? Well, this is just oneset of metrics. And let's jumponto the other main show, which I've been earningrevenue from, which is the valuefor value show. And so similar deal here,we'll look at these stats from July, August and Septemberthat just passed of 2023. So this show is considerably smallerthan the models.
We had about 3000listens, 3008 to be exact, listens across this timeperiod once again, because this is onblueberry, a different hostingplatform. I don't knowif they have ads supportlike like Buzz Sprout did. I didn't I didn't see itin my quick research. Let's justuse the same number of that 1.4 centsper download. This is equal to about 42 USD,which is about 66 AUD. Now, how did I do withthe boost in streaming? Well, significantly more. I got 665,000 from the sets coming in, which is about 283284 AUD. So okay, well, what'sgoing on there this time? Value for valueis is four times as much.
How do you work this out? What's the what'swhat's changed? You know, and I think this is where I'll just end off mymy case study in my comparison hereby just saying my little summary. I guess. So which method is better? Which if you're going togo, if you had to choose between one like only value for valueand only adds, my general takeawaywould be if you've got a smallershow, I probably would sayvalue for values is going to work best. I would almost certainly say value for valueis going to work best. Advertisersare not interested in doing advertisementson small shows.
It's too hard to monitor. It's too hard to make sure that the ads are being servedcorrectly, and the amount of peoplejust listening just doesn't makesense for them to do that. If youhave a small niche show related to a topicthat you particularly love and there is onlyan addressable market of, you know, a thousand peoplein the world who are interestedin this topic and which is kind of what you can dowith podcasting. I saw a show recentlywhich was highlighted for its uniqueness, which was the amount of water being wastedin food production, and it was someone going on a deep diveto figure out how much water is being wasted.
You know, that's an incredibly,incredibly niche podcast. Are they going to be ableto get millions of downloads for for people listeninginto that unlikely, but there would besome people who would be reallyinterested in that show and I thinkwould be willing to contributeto that show. If you created one which was fascinatingenough for people toto listen to. So typically what I would say isI think that small shows value for value easily wins and that thatis the correct way to go. If you're gettingto a medium sized showlike the Me and Models, you're probably goingto have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again,we've chosen a very niche path of of saying like,you know, come support usthrough the these new apps, comesupport us using Bitcoin. It's it'shard. It's difficult. And so with a broad showlike that, like we have there,which is addressed more to aa broader audience because of the waywe've done it, we've we've certainly made it harder. If we had used PayPalfrom the very start, I'm almost certainthat that number would have been closerto the ad section to the to the ad numbers. So, you know, insteadof having only received 246 four for that quarterthat we just passed would be closer to the 455that theoretically we couldhave got through ads.
So I think the for kind oflike a medium show like us, which is getting, you know, roughly 100 to 300 downloadsper episode or something like that, I would say, you know,either's kind of good. Just take your pickwhich one you want to do when you're getting up to the really,really large shows. This is whereI'm once again, you know, I'm kind of having to gobased on feel now, even though John,John C Dvorak and Adam Currie can do it, they've got a super, superlarge show. They're getting close to a million downloadsper episode. I would say they wouldprobably make more if they just went throughthe advertising group because you can just if with a show like that,it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's,there's a tension, there's attractioncoming in. I feel like you could kindof negotiate that to it to a higher levelthan what they're receiving now the pay you knowwhat would be the the downside tothat is well, they would haveresponsibilities in terms of advertisersthat would have to make sure that they're not sayingcertain things that would perhaps goagainst the advertisers. This is where I think you encountera lot of the problems, which I see with with advertising model is,you know, self-censorship, relying on that oneor two big advertisers to support your show of just trading,I guess, security of having you know,you almost certainly know how much you're goingto get per month using advertising because they havethese guarantees like you're guaranteed to get this at the least,this much more perhaps if certainepisodes do better.
And then that's where it'slike I think I think that probably you'll earn more, but you're goingto have to decide on the trade offsfor that. Do you feel comfortable putting adsin front of your show? Are you willing to dolots of meetings with advertisers to make sure that they're happy withhow the show is performing and all of thesesorts of things? So yeah, that's that'sjust one section there. I also seeone in the chat here saying Devil's advocate,if for those 2.25 years we had instead focussed on advertisingand not boosting, so then targetingour show to popularity, I guess inthe short term it's likely we could have gottenmore money.
But at what cost inthe long run is my answer. So in that case, yes,you're if you are creating a show and and you're making itand you want to create the most moneyfrom advertising, it does need to be nicheto a certain audience because certain audiencesare more likely to spend. I think the the mostdesirable is about I think it's youngmen from 20 to 35 is the biggest spender category. And then probably afterthat would be young womenand then after that it would be like oldergenerations. I think that is the and yeah, there's a whole lot of thingsthat go into this. So.
Oh, I won't,I won't dive down that rabbit hole becausethat that's a deep one. I could, I could talkabout that for a while. So we'll leave itat that for the moment and instead let'sgo on to some, to Graham's Welcome to theValue for Value Booster Graham Lounge. I've got a coupleof things coming in here becauseI've got a live one in. I got to call them out.Thank you very much. Adam Currygot the bat signal and he sent 10,000SATs sent using pod verse. Thank you very much, Adam. So yeah, maybehe can comment in and and tell meif he thinks if, if he had gonethrough advertising and assuming he'd gotten the same amountof people listening to a no agenda,which he almost certainly wouldn't havebecause the advertiser would have started to,it would have drove away other people and drawnin certain others.
But let's just assumehe got the same amount. I would love to know. I would love toknow if if he thinks that he would have earnedmore just in straight up numbersthrough advertising. Obviouslythe value for value model relieson so much more and relies this so much more valuewhich is not captured monetarilyin this easy form, but which actually isvaluable. People creating a website. People like this. Peter the Slav who sent me in thisthis document which I still usefor my chapters, and I would have hadto pay someone to like create some coding or do some thingsto be able to just copyand paste stuff, you know, is it saving?
It's it's money, but it's an A, it'sa different form. And so it's very hardto capture. But yes,thank you very much, Adam. So, yes, as a reminder of everyone,I am live as of 10 a.m. Australian EasternStandard Time on a Wednesday,which is UTC midnight. Wherever you arein the world on that Tuesdayand Wednesday. So just plus or minus your your time zonefrom the universal coordinated time, youI would say UTC and yeah yeahthat would be the way to to join in lifeand send in a boost live just like Mr. Adam Currythe father has done there. Let's jump back into theprevious booster Grahams.
We've got Sam Sethimaking a whole bunch of paymentssent through pod fans. Once again, check outthe progressive Web app because you willget at the live bat signal if you are if you have if you're a fan of the mere mortalsor of the sorry, if you're a fanof the values of our show, you will definitely get that out and get thatthat app is it's going to do some cool things. So this is alreadyvery slick to play around with itthe other day and yeah, looking very, very nice. We also have here Gene,being from the last show from the volunteertechnologists which I talked aboutand highlighted his chat with Mitchis now out.
Please check it out. It's it'svery fascinating. It says great showand thanks for the shout out 2222sent using custom medic. Thank you very much Genemy man Much appreciated We've got here Sir Spencerwho is of the the wolf of I think he calls himselfthe Wolf of Kansas City. Yeah that's it. Who from ball after bowl. He says appreciate itthe self hosting Shout it. Anyone can do itif they decide they want to 6969Neon sent using pod verse. He lovesthe meme numbers. He does and at using pod verse. Of course, the the open source app,which I was talking about. And then this is onewhere it's it's I, I struggle with thisand so I probably say something's wrong sometimes and so he's, it's got another boostsent in here once again 6969using pod verse Thank you.
And he says,I think many people who are technicallyinclined still identify itas non-technical just becausethey're more advanced, just because there are more advanced areasor aspects of tech we use thatwe don't fully understand. Hearing you identifyas non-technical is like hearing someonewho changes their own oil sayingthey're not a big car guy because they can'trebuild an engine. And then he's got the emojiwith the beta sweat on it. You've been you've been out hererunning with scissors too, and every day isa learning experience. You're a technical guy, whether you believe itor not.
Karen So thank you. Thank you very much. I think that'sa compliment. Thankyou. Thank you. Spencer. My problem, I suppose, ismy my way of communicating my dislikeof of of problem solving when it comesto technology, I find itincredibly frustrating. I find it almost anxiety producingat times, to be honest, because it feels veryhidden behind the scenes. Like what? Why is this thingthat was working has suddenly stopped? For example, the USB port on my laptop has suddenly stoppedworking. I try to do a bit of a fixin case it was a drive, a thing that didn't work.
But there's still options that it could beor it could be a an actual hardwaredefault. Some dusters got in. I don't know. What do I do with that? I don't like thatexperience. That pisses me offto no end. So when I saynon-technical, I what I mean is I don't havethat intuitive talent nor the desireto fully dive down into these things. But yes, in a in a wayI am because I obviously have gotten very deepinto the booster cramming, all of thesesorts of things whichother people would say are no, andthat's super technical. I could never be ableto do that.
So I yeah,I do appreciate that. I suppose it's the paradox,the paradox of life that even thoughI don't feel like I am, perhapsI perhaps I actually am. But in any case, he had actually justa great chat with Steven Bell from CureCosta of the Music Side Project of the Splitkit of Ellen Beats Fame. So the guy whoI was talking about really on the Value forValue Music episodebecause he does so much, he had a great chatwith him and they talked a lotabout coding and this kind of aspectof of trying to do things foryourself, self hosting. And yeah,I would recommend checking that out.
Oh, I'll puta link in this episode. And then he says, Have you heard No agenda, no brand willadvertise with us and we would have beenDemonetised years ago. 10,000That sent using podcast. I have, I have Adam. I've tunedinto a few episodes. Yeah it's this isI guess the tricky thing, right with the,with the ability to to try and do thesetheoretical numbers. You know I came upwith some numbers just before of 245versus 455. That 455 is it's a it's a vapour,it's a wisp of air. It's it'snot a real tangible thing. It's a it's a guesstimate. And I it could very,very wildly I've heard advertising ratesbeing double that 1.4%.
So does that mean that that numbershould be doubled? And I've also heard itbe significantly less and I'm assuming it'sbeing on this end as you as so many assumptionsthat come into this. This is where I wouldprobably maybe recommendfor someone who is. All right,the starting of the podcastfor the first time. And they they'rereally enjoying it. Perhaps they're getting some listeners coming inand they're like, okay, well, I would love toat least recoup some of the costsof hosting and things like this.What should I do? I would definitelyrecommend, you know, attempting value for valueat the very least.
And I'm going to talk about my tips sectionabout how you do that. And this is where,you know, where we're on onto the tipssection. So you showswill do better if you adopt certain tactics andif you do certain things. Now, you heard mementioning before, and if you lookedat the graphs, you'll see the current WestEnd is in Spanglish. You said you hadfour shows, but you only you only put in boostingamounts for three of them. Well, if you look at thedates of things. So the first the first boostto Graham we received received from Chadf was on the Yeah.
That end of Julyperiod of 2021, I stopped the crazinessin Spanglish right around that same period. It was July Augustof that of that same year. So what had been happening was obviouslyI was doing a show not as Innocent Spanglish,the book reviews, but I never mentionedthe boost branding or any of the valuefor value stuff because I didn'teven know about it. I had never heard of itbefore. So even though I subsequently laterput in the value block and had the abilityfor people to boost and I never talkedabout it, so I never gota single cent, I never got a singleSatoshi from from anyone doing that. So what youwill notice is that for value, for valueto really work, you have to adopt certaintactics and certain things will will work betterand incentivise people to come in.
Much likeAdam was saying here, you know his show,No Agenda. It got very popular because they haveno agenda, they don't have advertising,they don't have people telling them what they can and can't say whether it be in a strongform or a very soft form. They don't have that. And so the tacticsthat they have come up with or tactics perhapseven is a strong word, the the natural progressionof their show turned into thingsthat would enable people to to boost it up, to boostand to to send money to send valueto their show. And so what are the someof these things? Well, look, the book reviews,I didn't even bother to do any graphsor things related to that.
Why It's becauseI've received so little from that. And then you can go,okay, well, why have you receivedso little from that card? Well,this is how I have done the bookreviews in the past. I would pre-record itso it would usually be recordeda week or two in advance because it required meactually reading the book and keeping on top ofthis is rather hard. So I would justpost it out. I would have the callto action at the end. Hey, please boost into the showif you want to. Like if you if yougot value from this. But I never had any realgood feedback loop. And soI started doing this live one thatI would do once a month that the recap where I could address all the booster Grahams that had receivedin that past month.
Now is this great for incentivefor people to boost in? Well, not reallybecause they'll boost in. And then it'sonly a month later that I'm reallytalking about it. So what I would say here is some of the tipsfor for someone who is creating valuefor value. So, number one,first you have to ask, make sure you askand make sure that you let people know thatit's a value for value so they can send inhowever much they want to. And we're just focusingon the treasure aspect here,the money aspect of it. Make sure that you ask and make surethat people know how to do itand that they can send in whatever amount they wantthat they value.
That is a critical one. You need to make thethe feedback loop as tight as possible. And so when they, you know, boost in orwhen they send in a PayPal or wheneverthey do something, they're sending youin cash or whatever the acknowledgementshould come in the next episodeif possible. And so this is where havinga really tight feedback loop is is best. So you still canprerecord, but it's better to pre-record, you know, one day in advanceinstead of two weeks like I was doingfor the book reviews. Another one live is areally weird motivator. We just seen AdamCurry here boost in a whole bunch,and I can see him also streaming and paymentsat the same time, which is really,really cool.
If you look at thingslike twitch streamers or even those NPClive streamers that you seen on Tik Tok, which I find sofascinating, has such a coolsubject subgenre. And so this is whereit will be a girl with a camerain front of her and people will send in a it's like an emoji. It's like a reaction, which actually she canexchange for money. And so if they sendan ice cream on, she goes, ice cream. So good, yum, yum, yum. And obviously this is, you know,what is the value that people are gettingfrom that? Well, it'sbecause it's live. They do some action and someone on the otherside of the world responds to that anddoes something with me.
It was with Adamjust right now. It was metalking about his show. It was me talking about somethingthat he messaged me super, super cool. And it's the same it's the same aspectthat's going on with these live streamers,these twitch's twitch people and stuff. There's just something about the live experience whichwhich people really enjoy. And so then we go liveis is another one, I think creating a bettershow, making it more easy to for people, easierfor people to to boost in, to contribute to the show. So having the funding tag within your actual shownodes doing, having the value blocks is set upso that if someone is listeningvia a podcasting app, they can do it directlywithin the app.
All of these thingscreating better show with chapter art and imagesand things like this. I think all of that is very useful,essential as well. And then the final one,consistency is critical as passive income. I'm I'm coming to the conclusionthat passive income is a largely a myth just because you createa show which hasevergreen content, I don't think thatmeans that you're going to get peoplegoing back and listening, much like music royalties,where if you create one really big show, one really big hit, you can live off thatfor the rest of your life. I'm not sure the samewill work in podcasting.
I don't think thatthe intangible qualities that music have of people just listeningto something like 5100 times in a row,which I have done with certain songs, I don't think the sameis going to happen with podcastingand a podcast episode, no matter how viralit goes, no matter how interestingthat one episode is, I don't I don't think thatthat passive income, you're going to get the same as perhapsyou could with a a hit a music hit, a songwhich just really, you know, somethinglike Stairway to Heaven, which is just going to it's it's stuckaround for so long. So in thiscase, the consistency is you have to keep doing it.
You have to keepputting out a show, as Adam Curry has done for six years, with no agenda,as I have basically been doing with my threeor four shows for, well, three showsnow that a person is is no longer activefor a long time. And so yeah, that'sthat's another one. The The passive income I thinkis is largely a myth the app and servicehighlight for for today. Let's jump onto that let'swrap this up if you haven't used OPI three, I would definitely recommendchecking it out if you want to see the statisticsand real granular things. So if you once again,if you check out yourchapter right now, there'sall sorts of things that he's got going onthere.
He's got thewhat was this called? It was likethe episodes over time. So you can really see how the episodesare performing. Typically you'll see itlike really shoot up straight awayand then have this long, long tail of peoplegradually listening in. He's got such detailedstatistics there of, you know, which appsare people using, where are they listeningfrom in the world? Which certain countriesare once again talkingabout non-technical? I don't know how he gets all of this stuff,but he does. The the thing withall of this is you, it's a o.p three dot dev is way you should goto to check out more.
And it providesall sort of free data because it's open. So once again,you have to be comfortable with someone comingand looking at that. And because anyone canlook at it, this data is outin the open. So once again open source check outthe last episode. So what I would say,ask your host to put in the necessary permissioninto your RSS feed. It's actually relatively simple,and I think most hosts would bewilling to do that and it can yet just getinto real granular info. So I would recommendchecking that out. I've just got a commenthere from one Disagree. Passiveincome from podcasts works very well for large podcasters out therewith evergreen content.
Tim Ferriss has talkedabout this in the past with some of his olderpodcasts. Okay, I didn't know that. Perhaps that's theexception, not the rule. Also, the repostingof old content, say five years laterwith no edit. Does that count aspassive income? Yeah, I get kind of it's it's not. Yeah,it's not an active effort but certainlyit's older stuff which I guess you could. Yeah. YeahI'll, I'll, I'll allow it. I'll allow it one. So yeah I supposethat's a, that's an idea as wellthere. If you, if you justrepost old stuff that kind of can play intothat consistency aspect.
But yeah. Look. Well just from our numbersI can say people have not beenboosting older episodes. It's, it's, it's episodeswhich are the current the recent ones. Yeah. Well we'll have to see. We'll have to grow our show biggerand then be allowed to do that. Let's,let's wrap it up here. Value for value. Who am I going to give 15%to this episode? I'm going to give itto John Spurlock for for creatingthe open three dot dev. He does a lot of I have used some of his graphs before such in thethe podcasting 2.0 ecosystem that episodeis it growing. I used a coupleof his graphs and now obviouslyI put in run four for that episode.
So this is kind of a little goodfor that as well. And yeah, he, it's in podcasting2.0 value for value. It only workswhen tons of people are contributingwhen we all get together. I know thisepisode has been very much focussedon the money aspect which people certainlyare interested in, but the whole show, this whole showis very much about other the other aspects of that,the connection with your audience, it's about the different ways thatpeople can contribute. It's about, it's, it's about totallychanging your mindset away from extractivevalue of people need to get thisit's a zero sum game to a a non-zero-sum game.
We cannot the pie can grow and we can all be happierand better. So final thoughts fromthis Just for me. ObviouslyI'm not at this stage yet where it isa full time income. I'm going to workas hard as I can to make that happen. And if if after like ten years I haven't made it, I'll have to just admit,like, you know what? I just wasn't ableto create enough value for for people for this tobecome a full time thing. And podcasting will would thereforeremain a hobby for me. But I'm going to fuckingtry really hard. And what I've found from just my own personal life is typically when I tendto stick with things and I stick with themfor years and years, I get better at it.
And, and it does tend to justall work out in the end. So thank you very much,everyone, for for joining in time,Talent and treasure. I would saysharing this episode with the digital creator, well, particularlywith a smaller podcaster, I think would be immenselyvaluable for them. Just so they can getsome rough numbers, they can comparethat to where they're at. All ofthis is rough, of course. And but and knowit's niche. It depends on your show and all of thatsort of thing. But I thinkjust having some numbers sometimescan can help people out. And then obviously comingand joining in live like Juan and Adam, it issuper, super fun talent.
Is there anything I can do to make this show better? One was just say ofthe audio quality is crisp, clear, which is great because Ihave been working on that, have been also workingon fixing up my studio, getting a little bitmore soundproofing. No, still soundproofing. What's it called? There's a wordfor making it not completely soundproof,but for just reducing reverb and echo andall that sort of stuff. Resources thatare similar to the overlap of these bookrecommendations. Anything that I've saidthat spark some ideas topic suggestions you would like meto cover, please send thosein via Instagram.
I would really love that. Or you can reach out via any of the social links that are downbelow as well. And then finally,the treasure. Look, of courseI have to talk about the podcasting appsand the booster grams. That'sthat's the main thing that I've beentalking about. So new podcastapp stock com or if you go to Miyamoto's podcast dotcom slash support I've got a littleexplanation there of of how you can usea new podcasting app to to helpsupport into the show. If you don'twant to do that if you don't wanta new podcasting app if you go to the podcastindex website and and boost in there that will value all of the splitsthat I'm putting up.
And sothat would be awesome. So check out valuefor the number four value on the podcastindex website, or you can do it to me directly at CARand I get all VidCon. I'd preferyou wouldn't do that because I want to to send the value onto everyone else who are in my splits. But if you have to, you can alsodo it there and yeah, yeah. Well we'll leave itat that a couple of just littlemake goods as well. I misspoke the other weekthere. As of nowthere are four episodes left of this season. I will then probably takea small short break, maybe a month, maybe less, and then get backinto it for season four, because I am really,really enjoying doing these Valleyfor Value episodes.
And there was another clarificationfrom the Ipfs podcasting. I said thatyour favourite a feed. I'm sorryI said that your favourite an episode on that. I meant that you favouritefeed. Just a random littleclarification there but yeah, thank you.Thank you for that. Thank you for everyoneAdam and Swan for joining me inlive. Very, very cool. I much appreciate itand I would yeah just leave it there to next week'sepisode is going to be it's going to bea bit of a different one. I'm not exactly surehow it's going to work in termsof the live component because I'm going to beusing my phone to really I want to dolike a showcasing of all of these differentapps and their features.
Bruce Diagramminghow you can do what it kind oflooks like. So it's going to bevery much dominant on the video aspect,which obviously I can't do here on a live audio show. So there'll be a video thatwill come out afterwards. So that one it will betalking about the the apps themselvesand some of these comparisonsand things like that. So yeah, a little heads up therefor what to expect and yeah, I really hope you're havinga fantastic day wherever you arein the world. Thanks for joining mefor this longer episode Chao for now, Kyrin out.
