In this episode of The Bitcoin Brief, we dive into the latest developments in Ashigaru land, particularly focusing on the return of Whirlpool. We discuss the new features, pool sizes, and the technical aspects of the terminal interface.
Additionally, we explore the broader geopolitical context, including recent military actions and their potential impact on the Bitcoin market. The episode also covers the news of Archetyp being seized and updates from Foundation Devices. We wrap up with listener boosts, updates on Bitcoin nodes, and a look at the latest releases from Zeus and Bitbox, ensuring you're up to date with all the essential news and tools in the Bitcoin world.
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(00:00:41) Introduction to The Bitcoin Brief
(00:02:44) Catching Up and Current Events
(00:07:20) Bitcoin Privacy and Security Tools
(00:16:59) Whirlpool's Return and Privacy Concerns
(00:42:07) Dark Net Market Seizure and Bitcoin Knots
(00:55:00) Listener Boosts and Feedback
(00:58:02) Updates on Zeus and Bitbox
[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.
[00:00:11] Unknown:
Bitcoin. Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cakewallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cakepay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show.
[00:02:44] Unknown:
Hello, mate. Good afternoon, sleepyhead.
[00:02:48] Unknown:
You're not gonna let that one go. I missed our brief. It was meant to be yesterday, and I slept right through it. I woke up to a load of messages.
[00:02:57] Unknown:
You didn't think I was gonna let the listeners not find out about it, did you?
[00:03:03] Unknown:
Soft, soft southern cunt.
[00:03:06] Unknown:
It was for a good cause. Yeah. It was. We'll dive into the details of why shortly after, but you are duly forgiven. Thank you, mate. It was for a noble cause. I'm thankful that you did pull an all night that night with Jordan to get that shot
[00:03:20] Unknown:
ASAP. So, thank you. The problem wasn't that night. It was the fact that the previous night had also been an all nighter. So it was two back to back that really fucked me up, but it came out really well. And, obviously, we're gonna cover some of it. But, there's no real news going on, is there? Is there anything to chat about? Oh, I think we're in the early days of World War three. Are we? Well, do you know what? I know nothing about other than, like, literally, because I don't watch the news or open a paper or do, like, anything or listen to podcasts anymore. Like, nothing. All I've seen is, like, the odd meme about, like, Trump, but I don't really get them. I've seen that cool stealth bomber. There's loads of pictures of that. And then, like, loads of people shitting themselves because the Bitcoin price tanked by, like, 2%.
Then everyone likes saying it's World War three. Kerim's in the group constantly saying it's the end of days in our chat, and I'm like, is it? It doesn't seem like it to me, but maybe it is. The world is a much rosier place, isn't it, when you don't watch the news? Yes. It's quite nice.
[00:04:24] Unknown:
I'm trying to distance myself from it, but I'm kind of getting sucked into it a little bit, like, because I'm curious as to what's actually going on. But seems like America getting involved in another Middle Eastern war yet again. Nice. Nice. Basically, Trump and the boys bombed some military sites in Iran. After that, he said it was a great military success, but then proceeded to say that The US is not at war with Iran. Okay. If dropping tons of bombs onto a country doesn't constitute being at war with them, then I'm not sure what does, really. It was probably friendly. They did it in a friendly way. Maybe they sent, like, a little love heart drawn on it or something like that. Just drew, like, a smiley face on the side of the bomb. Yeah. It's friendly fire because it's got a smiley face on it. Well, the Americans would know all about that, wouldn't they?
[00:05:12] Unknown:
Too soon? Yeah. Well, maybe. I don't know, mate. There's always a war on somewhere all the time. It's just whether it's talked about. With things that are out of my control now, it's really hard to keep control of the things that you can keep control of. Diet, family, sleep, friends, keeping in contact with the people you care about, work, trying to avoid surveillance, trying to keep on top of all your Bitcoin stuff, trying to keep some level of freedom. All that stuff is, like, extremely tiring and time consuming. And it's hard to, like, actually do it consistently.
And then there's something like a war in The Middle East that Trump is deciding to drop some fucking bombs on a nuclear science. Like, I have absolutely no control over that at all. I don't even know what's true and what's not. Like Yeah. It was hard enough to know what's true and what's not a couple of years ago, but now, like, there's two, three times more news. And then, like, there's all the AI stuff, and you don't know whether an image or a video is real or fake, and
[00:06:16] Unknown:
everyone just relies on fucking grok. Grok, is this real? I don't know. It's hard. Yeah. You're absolutely right. It is pretty tough, but, seems to be spooking the markets. The markets are are all over the place at the moment. Like you say, people are flipping out because Bitcoin's dared to dip below a $100,000, which is we get a wild thing to say.
[00:06:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think? Are we are we all gonna die? Is it gonna be World War three? Or
[00:06:42] Unknown:
I don't know. I I think we'll be fine. I think we'll be fine. Yeah. I feel quite safe here in Antarctica. Yeah. You paid the good time to move out into the middle of nowhere. You really did. Yes. Who's gonna drop a bomb on a penguin? That is a very good point. They're probably an endangered species as well. Like, you you probably get in more trouble for hurting a penguin than you were dropping a bomb in Iran. Definitely. Iranians aren't endangered species. All their nuclear sites. I feel like we've just found our clip for the episode. Well, anyway, sorry to any Iranians. It's a bit of shit. Quite nice people. Met lots of Iranians. They seem to generally be very nice. Nice. Not sure I've ever met anyone. Sure. They're lovely. But in the meantime, the rest of us do have to to get on with real life, and I've been working hard as always. Mhmm. I built a new, comparison tool on the foundation website. Yeah.
Oh. We're getting quite a lot of emails and inbound contact from people that are newer to the foundation ecosystem that they're like, I've been hearing a podcast that needs to take self custody, yada yada yada. And, you know, I've come to your website and you've got two devices. Which one should I get? Obviously, you know, that's a fairly long email to be to go into detail about, to be like, well, it depends what you want from a device and do you value a true air gap? Or do you want ease of use and Bluetooth and a touchscreen and blah blah blah. So I thought, you know what? Gonna make you a comparison site where you can just go on and you can just look at them all side by side, compare the specs, compare the sizes, weights, dimensions, features, etcetera, etcetera. So that you can go self serve that shit and, you know, make your own decision based on what you see on screen. I'm just looking through it. I like this. Started out life as just being a comparison page of just our products, but then I thought, well, people are gonna know that there's other manufacturers' devices out there as well, and we'll wanna compare our two kind of flagship devices with those as well. So I did in a third column and I did in, like, the 10 or 11 most popular devices from all of the other manufacturers in the market as well. And did it in such a way where I'm trying to be because one of my pet peeves is that a lot of these comparison things are very heavily weighted towards where they originate from. Yeah. For obvious reason, people just use them as marketing tools, but I wanted to make it as fair as possible. And if one of the competitors is better in a certain area or has a new feature that we don't, then I'm I'm trying to be honest there and highlight that as a plus versus our products. Just as, you know, we highlight where we're better than the competition as well. So put a lot of work into it and there will inevitably be some mistakes or some stuff missing in there. So if you're listening to this and have a look on the website, if you see any mistake, please do let me know. I am human, and there's thousands of data points in there. So
[00:09:16] Unknown:
I'm not sure you are.
[00:09:18] Unknown:
Look to continue to add new devices as in when they come on the market, you know, keep up to date with the latest feature sets and whatnot as well. You got price.
[00:09:26] Unknown:
You've got how to back up. What's in the box? Is it open source? How long is the warranty?
[00:09:34] Unknown:
Connectivity options.
[00:09:35] Unknown:
QR code and what so that's the backup style. Does it have a companion app? Languages,
[00:09:42] Unknown:
companion apps, paid onboarding services, and then it goes really into the nitty gritty. So we've got a hardware section with all the dimensions and the materials and where it's manufactured. Features is the biggest one, obviously. We list all of the different features of each one and what one doesn't have and what another one does have. And then we move down to security aspects. So talking about secure elements, pins, tamper detection, and then the last one is connectivity where we go into detail about all the different connectivity
[00:10:11] Unknown:
features for each of the devices as well. Very nice. And it looks quite fair from what because I was just loading up gayest competitor
[00:10:17] Unknown:
and just checking because I thought, wow. This is the one that if you're gonna do something, it's gonna be with this one. I'm looking through, and it is fair as far as I can see. So I like it. Very good. Nice. Thank you. Feedback always welcomed for anybody listening to this that wants to go check it out. Final, the piece of foundation news is, we had a little feature by Juan Galt in Bitcoin Magazine where he did a bit of a deep dive into Passport Prime after a quick interview with Owen, one of our designers as well. If you're new to all this and you're like, what the hell is Passport Prime? Could be a good little primer for you. Nice. Oh, good little primer. I like that. That was completely unintentional as well.
[00:10:53] Unknown:
Just own it, mate. Just say, yeah. I'm a tell you that. I had some feedback for you. Oh. I was using my, passport core, as you now call it yesterday. And this key manager extension, I've started using, and it's really nice. I got confused at first. This is like me being a retard. I wanted to set up a fresh Ashikaru wallet, and I was like, do you know what? I'm sick of fucking writing seats down and then having multiple multiple different places to back up and, like, it all being a fucking headache. So I thought I'm just gonna actually do this today using this BIP 85 method. And then I was like, right. So I'm gonna make another account. And then I was like, no. I can't do that because accounts are actually just different derivation paths, and therefore, I'd have to enter my seed words in, and therefore, it would compromise what I've got. And that's 24, and the other one's 12 and blah blah blah. Took me a while. I don't know why. I was just, like, being retarded. And I was like, oh, this thing shit. Like, this doesn't fucking work. And I was like, right. Let's see what Q has to say about it. So I went on and watched your video, and then I came across the key manager bit. And then I was like, This is good. So I use my key manager, create 12 words, then that's backed up with all my other stuff. So, like Mhmm. Worse comes to worse, I lose my phone or bit of paper I write it down on or whatever. It's fine as long as I've got my master backup on the micro SD. And then manually enter that into Ashigaru, add a passphrase. It's the only bit you've gotta do is add the passphrase with that particular wallet. So that's obviously gotta be kept separately just the way it works. But now I was like, this is brilliant because I actually have things backed up properly, and I don't have to worry about losing
[00:12:36] Unknown:
my wallets. It's really nice. Oh, nice. I was waiting for the bit where you criticized us actually, the way you, started out with that conversation. But, yeah, I cosign it all. I I use it in a very similar way where I use passports and the key manager functions are popular all my mobile wallets. Yeah. It's a game changer. Yeah. The one thing that I'm looking forward to as well is, like, when Prime comes out, that would be somewhere that I might store
[00:13:00] Unknown:
potentially, like, passphrases in a separate device or something like that. Yeah. Because that's still the bit where it's like you can't create notes or anything like that in core. It's like you can create the keys, but you can't do anything outside of that. Whereas my understanding with Prime is you'll be able to have your two FA stuff. You'll be able to import different files. So that might be a good way to separate the two. It's like, okay. Well, I've got my keys with core, but then, actually, I've got my different codes and my different passphrases and stuff like that in this separate device, meaning that you don't have to then have things on paper, and you just have your micro SD backups slash steal, which I think is, like, pretty fucking nice and hard to fuck up way of keeping all your stuff in one place without the security
[00:13:51] Unknown:
dropping away. Yep. And don't forget, you'll also have an optional encrypted cloud backup of all that two FA stuff and all, you know, additional stuff that you've just talked about. Mhmm. If you wanted to, you can have that all backed up automatically in an encrypted fashion to the cloud as well. But you don't have to. Absolutely. No. No. We'll never force you into anything at Foundation.
[00:14:11] Unknown:
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that because I did sit there and go, oh, fucking hell. This doesn't even work because I can't do it. And I had, like, a little retarded moment, and I, like, fully own that. But then once I'd worked out that key manager, I was like, I like this. Also, the fact that you can do the Noster keys from it and all that kind of stuff, I was like, actually, this is you don't just sit on your ass there, mate. I might give you shit, but you guys are doing some good stuff. We do put a lot of thought and effort into things. Yeah. Absolutely. No. We appreciate that feedback. And I'm glad you mentioned that actually because
[00:14:43] Unknown:
you just jogged my memory for something. Yesterday, we sent an email out and put a post in the community forum asking for video feedback on people who have switched to passport from a competitor. We're asking for that in video format. There's absolutely no requirement for people to put their face on video if they don't want. We just want, like, a thirty second video of featuring your passport, why you like it, why you switched from Ledger, Coldcard, Trezor, wherever you came from, what the differences were, and, you know, what made you make that shift in the first place. So if anybody wants to get involved with that and earn a guaranteed $25 in Bitcoin, we're paying out for every single video submission Oh, fucking hell. I'll be doing that then. Then, yeah, please feel free to get involved. You know, you'll find all the details on the community forum. Yeah. As I say, $25 guaranteed payout for every single video submitted that meets the criteria of minimum thirty seconds. The most creative ones will go into a draw to win $250 of Bitcoin as well.
[00:15:40] Unknown:
Very nice. Can you do that for every passport you've bought? Because I've bought, like, 10 of them to give to friends and people. That's some good money. You may find a loophole in the system there where you could submit multiple from different email addresses, so I might need to plug that gap. As me sat. What are you doing, Max? Yeah. I'm I'm really busy, mate. We can't record this week. Why? I've got this new job. I'm just Submit thousands of videos in a day. Yeah. I'm fucking I'm raking in, like, $10 a day at the moment. I'm fucking getting so many videos. To be clear, we've capped it at the first 100 videos, the pay payout.
[00:16:14] Unknown:
But we've had nowhere near that yet. We only released it yesterday.
[00:16:18] Unknown:
I wouldn't do that. But, yeah, anyone who does have a passport, definitely do that. But don't show your your face. I think that's a bit gay. I think that's a bit Absolutely not a a requirement whatsoever. Yeah. I think that might not be the most secure thing to do. I think most of our listeners probably wouldn't do that anyway. But, also, don't do it with, like, a dick pic or anything like that because the queue's gotta go through all of these. So don't do any gross, weird stuff. Please don't do any gross, weird stuff. Probably not gonna send you $25 in Bitcoin if you send me a dick pic, to be honest. Okay. Before I put any more horrible ideas in people's heads, what else is going on? I'm sure there was some news.
[00:16:59] Unknown:
There are some news. In fact, there's a very big piece of news that was completely unexpected, knocked me off my feet, but made me smile a lot at exactly the same time. You probably know this better than I do because this is where we come full circle and refer back to why you missed the brief yesterday and why you stayed up all night was because you did a a last minute show in the middle of the night with Jordan Mhmm. Yep. To cover off the fact that Whirlpool is back Mhmm. From within the Ashigaru ecosystem.
[00:17:34] Unknown:
Oh, yes. We couldn't just ignore that one. Came out of nowhere. Suddenly, my phone starts blowing up, and it's people, like, sending me Whirlpool's back. Whirlpool's back. Whirlpool's back. You need to do a pod. You need to, like, just ping ping ping ping ping ping ping. TSB and all the other groups. Jordan was messaging me the same. Like, guys, back. It's back. It's back. I was like, right. We need to jump on a call. Should we do it now? So we jumped on, read through their blog post, which is how they sort of let everyone know, you know, they don't do any socials or anything like that. I thought, right, we need to actually test this. So we, we recorded and live tested it and did a mixed live as we recorded. And it all went weirdly smoothly as everyone knows. That's pretty rare for me, but it was very good and very slick. And I jumped into the pool, and the water was warm. Lovely.
[00:18:27] Unknown:
Love to hear it. Yeah. Now, obviously, you and Jordan, I've listened to that show because you showed me before it was released. Thank you for that, by the way. What I wanna do is keep that as the deep dive where, like, Jordan pretty much reads most of the blog posts, and there's gonna be people that don't wanna sit and listen to you and Jordan which went on trying to navigate your way through the terminal for an hour. So I was thinking I'm gonna recap the high level stuff here so that people have got the headlines and signpost them to that other show if they wanna get Yeah. Into the the weeds a bit and, you know, really get to understand it. So if you're a hardcore privacy guy, then listen to us and then go go and listen to, Max and Jordan to, go through the details. Yeah. Definitely do that. But some of the high level stuff. The general structure of how the Whirlpool is gonna work is very, very similar. You're gonna be doing that through Ashigaru terminal, which you'll need to install onto your computer.
Max, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't need to use the same you can just create a new wallet from within that terminal Mhmm. Application so that you can have your own mixing wallet if you wanted to, or you can import your seed from your existing Ashigaru wallet. Is that correct? You can definitely import your seed from the existing Ashigaru wallet.
[00:19:38] Unknown:
I don't know if you can create one on there. I assume you can. I didn't need to because I'd already set one up on the phone. So
[00:19:46] Unknown:
You can because I think Jordan mentioned on your show that Okay. That that's what he did. So you can do either. You can bring your existing wallet or you can create a new one. Passphrases are mandatory as Max mentioned earlier. And then I initially scoffed at the thought of it being terminal because as you know, I'm the resident terminal hater in the Ungovernable Misfits crew. You are. Yeah. Although it is technically in the terminal, it's not like the command line where you're typing commands. It's a terminal menu, isn't it? A bit like the old running dojo for people that would be familiar. Yeah. It's really like that. Or the Raspberry Blitz, they used to do the same thing, didn't they as well? So it's it's just a menu that you go up and down with the arrows on your keyboard, and you press enter or space bar to navigate around. So you don't need to be somebody like Jordan to actually be able to do this. And proof in the pudding was that you also did a mix on the show. Right? Yeah. Did a mix on the show. And, actually, weirdly, I like the interface.
[00:20:39] Unknown:
It's really simple and clean. It's like, okay. It's not flashy. It's not got this, like, amazing UX and just stuff happening all over the place. But in some ways, I prefer that. I always find with, like, Adobe programs and things like that. It's like, oh, look at all this functionality. I can do all this stuff. It's like, I don't know how to fucking do anything here. It's so confusing. Like, there's so much that I can't do anything. Whereas this is, like, left, right, up, down Mhmm. Wallet, and then it you go through. It shows you what you've got there. It's, like, so fucking simple to use and clean. It's black, white, red. No colors. No nothing. Just simple. And it works. And at the end of the day, that's what you want. Good. Well, I'm gonna give you some quick fire questions now, and I want you to give me a quick answer based on I wanna test whether you were listening when you're on with Jordan.
[00:21:25] Unknown:
And if not, I'll give the answer. I actively don't with him. Still free and open source? The client and the coordinator? Good. Is it still running over Tor by default? It's all Tor now. Yes. Oh, nice. I thought that was gonna catch you out. You don't fucking catch me sleeping, mate, except for yesterday. Is there a central dojo where the Ashigarazim run one that you can connect to? No. Correct. So what happens if you don't have a dojo? Can you use this or not? Yes. You can go to Dojo Bay. It's very simple. You can go on there, and you can just scan a QR code or copy and paste, whatever they call it. I also believe you can connect to any third party Electrum server as well. Obviously, there's some privacy trade offs to doing that even though it's over to all. But you could connect to a public one like you would to with Spiro or something like that as well. Yeah. Or you can run your own Dojo. There's multiple ways of doing that. And one of them is the the start line option, which Jordan's worked hard on. So there's loads of different ways. Yep. We still got four liquidity pools. Right? 100,000 sats, 1,000,000 sats, 5,000,000 sats, 50,000,000 sats? Unfortunately not Okay. At the moment. So we've got new pool sizes. Yeah. So you've got
[00:22:34] Unknown:
0.025.
[00:22:37] Unknown:
So that's 2,500,000.
[00:22:39] Unknown:
Yeah? Which is about 2 and a half grand. And you've got 0.25, which is obviously 25 grams. 25,000,000. Wow. Okay. So and it's just those two pool sizes for now. Is that right? It is. Yeah. We did talk about this a little bit, and we don't know this, but we're guessing that the team probably doesn't have time to deal with a billion questions and moans and whinges from, like, the smaller amount of money someone pays for service, the more they want from you as a general rule. It's like a weird upside down topsy-turvy world like that. So my guess is they're gonna rely on the more hardcore privacy people who've probably been around for a longer time, who have already used Whirlpool previously, and who are not gonna come at them with a billion questions and take up all their time when they wanna be developing. So that's my guess anyway is why it's starting with those larger amounts. And my guess is that they do add more options in the future. Mhmm. More pool sizes. What are the fees like? 5% of the pool size that you enter with a maximum of 20 UTXOs.
Oh, fuck at this, ladies and gentlemen. I promise you I'm not reading this as well. I actually remember this. If you're joining a pool, you wanna try and which I didn't do annoyingly. I just didn't have the like, this is a lot of money. Like Yeah. There's no getting around that. I understand why they've done what they've done, but I was like, fucking hell. Alright. I've got this is a lot to try and find either pool that you try and join. So, ideally, what you wanna do is have as close to 20 UTXOs out of the input that you put in.
I don't suggest to anyone that you put multiple UTXOs and join them together because that can cause issues. It's something I've done in the past and regret. So you wanna find the fastest UTXO you that you have that gets you to the most amount of UTXOs on the output side because then your fee is much lower as a percentage of your input, if that makes sense. Yeah. So what you're trying to say is if I was to enter the 2,500,000.0
[00:24:58] Unknown:
sat pool Yes. It's gonna cost me 5% of that whether I enter with just over 2,500,000.0 sats or if I enter with 20,000,000 sats. The fee is exactly the same.
[00:25:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. So your fee as a percentage drops dramatically the larger amount that you put in. And that makes sense, and there's loads of, like, reasons for that because of SIPL and different attacks and stuff like that. So it makes sense. And the other thing is, although I did a mix where I was like, I'm not being as efficient as I could be if I had more money, I kind of was like, that's okay because I wanna support these guys. What they're doing is extremely brave and very, very important. And so I was like, I just see that bit as like, fuck it. That's a bit of a donation. Like, here you go. Keep developing. You know, I could have been way, way, way more efficient if I had more money, but I wanted to test it. And, yeah, let's go. And to be clear, the 5% fixed fee is the same
[00:25:54] Unknown:
as it was in the samurai version of Whirlpool. That's right. Isn't it? The only difference here is the the pool denominations.
[00:26:01] Unknown:
Can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't remember if it was 5%. I mean, they had a calculator previously,
[00:26:07] Unknown:
which I built that. Did you? You're welcome. I had some help, but I built it.
[00:26:13] Unknown:
Whatever they say about you, don't listen. Don't listen when they call you a useless, fucking, emboldened, sniveling, cunty little robot.
[00:26:21] Unknown:
Squeaky, greasy, little cunt. When they say that, just go, no. I built that. So, yes, I know the answer to that question. It it was 5% fixed of the pool size. So as you correctly said, the more you enter each pool with, your fee percentage of the amount that you enter with drops significantly.
[00:26:39] Unknown:
Yeah. One thing I'll just say again to anyone who's listening who might be newer, I really strongly advise you do not put multiple UTXOs in at the same time because that can hurt your privacy. And it's something that could be tempting because you're like, oh, well, if I add these two or these five, whatever, however many it is together, then that brings my fees down as a percentage. But suddenly, now you're linking these inputs, and it becomes clear that you were the owner of all of these, and it could slash most likely would hurt your privacy. Personally, I would only do one UTXO
[00:27:22] Unknown:
at a time. Yeah. I'm gonna push back there slightly. I understand completely why you're saying that, but there are certain circumstances where that would be an okay trade off and you would benefit significantly from doing that. A perfect example would be if you're fine with the trade offs of KYC or you like to stack repeatedly on something like bull Bitcoin or Bitter or something like that where you do your DCA where it's known that you are the same person buying from a centralized entity time after time after time. Those UTXOs are already bagged and tagged as being yours, irrespective of whether, you know, you've got 10 of them or just one of them. True. So if that was me in that position, which for obvious reasons it wouldn't be, but if that was you, then that would be an okay trade off. And I would happily say to that person, if you're gonna go into Whirlpool, then, yeah, combine them because you're gonna save a lot of money in fees.
[00:28:13] Unknown:
That's fair. Yeah. That's totally fair. And it's obvious that it's coming from one entity, and it's yeah. Mhmm. I agree with that. What I'm saying is that for most use cases, for most people listening here, if you're buying no KYC or you're earning here or this bit's changed from another spend, you've got all these different UTXOs that could link you in different ways once you combine them. One thing I we always talked about previously was, like, it'd be really nice to have on the input side some way of that being not just your five UTXOs that you're putting in on the input side, but that that was a collective thing between multiple parties. Like, multiparty input
[00:28:55] Unknown:
would be really, really nice. Yeah. I remember that being spoken about years ago, multiparty TXO.
[00:29:01] Unknown:
Yeah. That's something like to me, I'm obviously fucking retarded. But from my very basic understanding of how this stuff works, that's the one bit where I'm like, that can be a real foot gun. That can be a real fuck up. Like, because I know because I've fucked it up. So that's something that I have no idea how you could do it. I have no idea if there's reasons not to
[00:29:21] Unknown:
or whatever. But to me, it seems like maybe something that could come in the future. But until then, just be thoughtful about how you use it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So a couple of other things to be aware of. Just going back to what you mentioned earlier around, like, how many UTXOs you can get out, they're limiting that at the moment to 20 outputs, aren't they, per pool entry. Right? Yes. So what happens to the remainder? Let's say I'm a bit of a whale. I've got a full Bitcoin and I enter the the 2,500,000.0 SAP pool. Like, I'm gonna get I'm not being accurate with the maths here, but let's say I get 20 outputs.
What happens? Where does the change go? What do I do with it? What's the the outcome there? Well, what we've done is we've set up a fund for
[00:30:05] Unknown:
me because I haven't had a holiday for a while. It used to go to what they call bad bank, but it now goes to fund Max's holiday. He's gonna get on the biz
[00:30:16] Unknown:
with q. We're just basically gonna have a right laugh with any sales name. Okay. So the the serious answer to that question is that it goes into bad bank. Right? Bad bank. And that's just a separate segregated account. And if the remainder in there is large enough to enter one of the smaller pools, then I can do that directly from bad bank. Yeah? Yes. Correct. So those funds that go into bad bank don't have to be looked at as, like, a write off or anything? Yeah. That's right. And the one thing I've noticed though is I can't see I'm sure you can. I just haven't worked out how to do it. Can't see BadBank
[00:30:50] Unknown:
within Ashigaru on the phone. Okay. I can only see it in this terminal. So I'm sure you can see it and I'm just being dumb, but just for people who might do it and then like, oh, fuck. Where's that money gone? It hasn't gone. It's just in bad bank. One thing I'm not sure as well, because I always used to do the same thing. It's like mix it down, especially when you have those smaller pools, you know, 100,000 sat pools and stuff. You could sort of do that a lot easier. But could you technically send the bad bank out? Like, could you untack it as a Yep. Do not spend, and you could do something with it if you wanted to. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's a non custodial wallet at the end of the day, so you're still fully in control.
[00:31:29] Unknown:
The bit that I think is accurate at the moment is that, like you say, the bad bank is only accessible from the terminal.
[00:31:35] Unknown:
So and I'm sure Mhmm. The the next version of Ashigara will give access to BadBank if it isn't already there so that you can spend those from the mobile wallet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would think so. But, again, I wouldn't advise that you do it. Be thoughtful about what UTXOs you're using as the input, and then try and be as efficient as you can with everything. And then, obviously, we're gonna hope that there are smaller pools. But until then, you don't wanna have, like, massive amounts of bad bank where you're like, fuck. I actually need to spend some Bitcoin. You're like, oh, shit. I don't have any that I can use. You know? Just be a bit thoughtful about it. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:32:10] Unknown:
Stating the obvious for this one, but I'm asking the question for the benefit of the audience. Still a centralized coordinator, right, run by a single entity? Yeah. I think it has to be. So yes. Okay. And do we know I I I'm fully aware that the Ashigari team are they're not on social media or anything like that. So I guess it's unclear at this point as to whether there is gonna be a push to move back towards that decentralized coordination that I know Sam and I were working on before all of all of the takedowns.
[00:32:38] Unknown:
Yeah. I would assume so. We just don't know. We don't know. Obviously, we did the interview with Ashigaru dev. I think we talked about it or, like, the possibility of Whirlpool coming back, but, you know, they were giving nothing away there. I don't know. I would assume that that would be the case, but I think they have to have a centralized coordinator Mhmm. For now. Whether they manage to do the decentralized
[00:33:02] Unknown:
option or not, I don't know. No one can really know. Well, like I say, I don't wanna be seen as to be that guy that's always replying into Twitter to be like, when the next thing because like you said, these guys are being incredibly brave, whoever they are. So even just to get to this stage, like, I take my hats off and I commend them for what they've done. So I'm just asking for the benefit of the listeners. I don't wanna be seen to be that guy that's just like, oh, when the next thing because, like, this is big as it is. Yeah. It's massive. I found myself doing that. I was like, oh, can't I mix from the phone? Like, like, no. That'd be easier. And then I was like, listen, you little cunt.
[00:33:34] Unknown:
They've this is not easy stuff to do, and there are risks involved. The fact that you've gotta download one more fucking application to your computer and and spend, like, two minutes setting it up to allow yourself to have this level of privacy that you were just whinging for the last year about losing and how important it was and how much of an issue this was to the whole ecosystem. Now you want it back. I just caught myself. Like, because you we do. Like, it's just like, whatever you have in life, you're always like, oh, well, it would be nice to have this. You know? Oh, well, you know, that would be but this is a huge step, and I'm I'm sure that they're gonna work towards those other things. Yeah. Absolutely. Again, as much as I hate the terminal, like, it's actually a better place to leave mixes running. Like, you're gonna get way more remixes by leaving a the command line's all running than trying to keep your phone open and alive if it was available in the mobile app. Yeah. Just in the interest of being open and honest with everything because we've always been sort of very much on the samurai and Whirlpool and that whole ecosystem side. We've always been sort of, like, almost fanboys about it because it's always been the best in our mind. But I'll be honest, when there are problems, I'll obviously always find them. I always find any problem. I fuck everything up. So one thing I've noticed with my terminal, and this is on Mac, it's just, like, totally frozen this morning.
So it ran for a couple of days absolutely fine, but it's totally frozen with, like, the wheel of death, like, the colorful wheel of death that you get on Macs. And for some reason, I can't force quit either. So if I go force quit, it pulls up all my other programs, applications that are running, but it does not show the swing terminal frame it's called. It doesn't show that. So I can't close it or do anything with it at this point. And I'm sure if I just turn my computer off and turned it on again, it'd probably clear it, and it'd probably be fine. I've just got too many things that I'm doing at the moment that I can't actually do that. But I just thought I'd mention that in case anyone comes up with the same problem or if the Ashigaru team are listening. I'm not whinging. I'm very grateful, but I'm just reporting honestly. Absolutely. Talking of being honest and talking about trade offs, there's one thing I'm gonna bring up in a second. But before I do that, one thing we did fail to cover that we the final thing we should spell out for the listeners is that there's gonna be people listening to this that are already in the samurai Whirlpool
[00:35:57] Unknown:
kind of liquidity pool. They're gonna have load of mixed outputs that are like a 100,000, million sats, 50,000,000, 5,000,000 sats. Those people cannot bring those wallets online and continue to mix. That's correct, isn't it? It is correct. Yeah. So this is a brand new liquidity pool for obvious reasons. Obviously, the output amounts are different. Here, we've got zero point two five and zero point zero two five BTC for now. So it is gonna be a distinct and very different liquidity pool to the massive one that was built up from the Whirlpool v one for one of a better term. Yeah. I can't remember the exact reasoning for that. I think it was not wanting to bring in and link
[00:36:36] Unknown:
what could possibly have been viewed when the Fed seized servers and stuff. So it's like a privacy concern. Like, starting fresh is probably the wisest and safest move, and that's what they've gone with. I agree. It doesn't mean that those people can't use those mixed UTXOs and bring them into this new liquidity pool. Obviously, everyone can do that. So I think think that makes perfect sense. Yeah. Agreed. I think that was a good kind of high level, but with enough detail. Just wanna signpost people to three places.
[00:37:10] Unknown:
All of this will be in the show notes, by the way. There's two blog posts by the Ashi Gauri team. One announcing the new coordinator, and the second one announcing the terminal version one, which is like the Whirlpool client that Matt was using on the other show. And then the third one is Catan, the absolute legend, was almost hotter off the press than you and Jordan were. And he came out Unbelievable. Almost immediately. It must have been within a few hours with a blog post and the video to go with it so that you can watch him use the terminal on Testnet to do some mixes,
[00:37:40] Unknown:
go through the entire setup process. So would, strongly suggest people go and check that out if you wanna kinda see what all of this looks like and bring it all to life based on what we've just been talking about as well. This guy, we were, like, mid recording. He was, like, just being released. We're, like, bang. We're gonna get straight into this mid recording, and Jordan's like, oh, yeah. There's a guide up. And I was like, what fucking freak of nature has managed to do a guide already? It's like, Catan. I was like, okay. That makes sense. Nice.
[00:38:07] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So they just wanna cap this whole Whirlpool Ashigari thing off with some things that I saw on social media that I'm for reasons that will will come clearly shortly, unable to verify. However, you know, I wanna be like you said, I don't just wanna be seen as a shill. I wanna make people aware of potential trade offs with this new Whirlpool ecosystem. So this is very new. I think it came out late last night as we record where there's been some fingers pointed to say that allegedly there's some holes in the Whirlpool coordinator code that are still present from the samurai Whirlpool because obviously, you know, the Ashigaru team have forked off from that and created their own very similar architecture. And allegedly, there's some things to do with RSA public keys and being able to unblind signatures and potentially map inputs to outputs.
There's lots of code snippets, which mean absolutely zero to me, and there's some lots of, you know, technical comments from people who are far cleverer than I that say that, you know, there's some holes here that need to be patched before people can use this and not fully trust the coordinator to be a good actor. I think it's best if we just link those in the show notes and let people make up their own minds. I'm just completely unable to verify all of the fingers that have been pointed at the moment. So if we can get some feedback from the Ashigari team, it would be wonderful, obviously, but I know they're not always forthcoming with being public, nor do they have any obligation to answer any of these accusations that are being made. But I just wanted to make people aware that there seems to be some fingers being pointed in both directions.
Mhmm. We've got the floppy disk guy and NothingMuch, who I believe used to be a Wasabi dev, although he had a big spat with them and left because he alleged that they were also useless. They these are the ones that are saying that maybe some of the things that Ashikhar Hussain have been fixed have not been fully fixed. But then on the other side, there's people I think one of the nims on Twitter, Noosphere, has kind of gone back and forth with various different AIs and done some code review, and is saying that these accusations are not true and that they the holes have been fixed and that there isn't any cause for concern. Once again, I'm unable to kind of verify either way. So we're just kind of making people aware that what's being said from both parts, and we'll link to all that in the show notes and let people make up their own mind. And hopefully, we can get some clarity in the weeks that follow as to what's the truth and what isn't. If I was a betting man, I'd say there's probably somewhere in the middle where some things are true and some things are not. Yeah. I guess we'll just see when it all comes out in the wash. It's tough, isn't it, with this stuff? Because there's just a level where you're like, there's two people shouting at each other, but they're shouting in fucking Japanese.
[00:40:50] Unknown:
That's exactly yeah. It's like they're talking a different language. You're like, okay. I mean, this one definitely is louder. That one dresses better. But I have no fucking idea which one is telling the truth or what is even being said. It gets to that level. And with most of us, then it's just like there always is a level of trust somewhere, and you sort of have to go, okay. These five people who over the last ten years have always been pretty much bang on and honest with everything. They're all saying this, and then there's this fucking retard who just, like, constantly lies and talks shit who is saying this. Okay. Well, there's probably 10 people who are telling the truth. No. They're probably right. But at this stage,
[00:41:31] Unknown:
hard to know. It is hard to know. Yeah. As soon as it gets this technical and you start talking about RSA keys and blinded oracles and all that sort of stuff, it's just yeah. I glaze it over. Yeah. Well, be aware. Be aware. Let's see how it unfolds.
[00:41:44] Unknown:
I'm comfortable enough to mix because I've seen what these guys have done so far. Many people that I respect
[00:41:53] Unknown:
have reviewed this stuff and seem very happy with it. So I'm sort of trusting in the groups of the people that I've known for a long time and that have always done things properly at this stage. So that's just me. Everyone has to make their own decisions. Yeah. Absolutely. As always, do your own research. Right. A couple of other bits of news. I know we've been running for for quite some time on the the Whirlpool stuff. The archetype dark net market has been seized by the feds. Now I've not heard of this until just now because I'm the pinnacle of society, and I don't visit dark net markets. Have you, seen much about this one? Basically, I think they've took down the website, took over the PGP keys.
Unclear at the moment was to whether there's been any funds seized in relation to this. Looks like it was a joint operation. Operation Deep Sentinel on behalf of the attorney general's office in Frankfurt,
[00:42:43] Unknown:
coordinated law enforcement operation, and there's loads of badges there. They're all very proud of it. Karim wrote something the other day. He was saying something about it maybe a week ago that he said that it's the most not that he visits these sites either, but he was saying it's the most amount of disruption he's ever seen. So I don't know. I don't know past that.
[00:43:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Clearly a bit of a coordinated effort if there's multiple going down at the same time. Yeah. The other funny thing about this well, it's not a funny story, but there's a funny aspect to this story is that the feds have come out with, like, a weird video, like a two minute long animated video to say what they've been up to. And it's it's quite high production value to be honest. And like talking about video cartoon type thing where they are like talking about what they've been up to and it, like, flashes up at the end with all their badges and stuff and comes up with the the name and operation deep sense and all and all the flags of the countries involved and stuff. And I just thought it was a very kind of weird move and a weird flex for them, but, they're clearly proud of themselves.
[00:43:45] Unknown:
Well, well
[00:43:47] Unknown:
done. And then the only other piece of news I had, and you'll be really pleased to hear this, Bitcoin knots node percentage seems to be consistently rising. Okay. They're up to well, I believe the latest report that made me check this was 13%. But when I've gone on to Luke Dash's wonderfully designed website, which is essentially a pie chart, it shows it as 10.53, but still way up on the last time I checked it. What does
[00:44:15] Unknown:
this mean for Whirlpool transactions? Because is he not then gonna try and call them spam?
[00:44:26] Unknown:
Yeah. So by default, Bitcoin knots nodes have a an opportune limit set at 40 bytes. And this is what? 80? Yeah. Bitcoin knots nodes won't relay transactions with opportune larger than that Mhmm. Which includes, like, PayNim notification transactions and, I believe, Whirlpool t x zeros as well. Mhmm. So they won't relay that. But at the current percentages, that means jack shit, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's still 90% of the Bitcoin core nodes more than enough to be able to successfully get CXOs relayed around the network. So it's still, like, completely insignificant in terms of impacting that side of things. Okay. But, you know, if it continues to rise steadily, it's a bit of an unknown really as to what the threshold would be where we'd have to have x amount of nots or x percentage of nots node for it to start causing disruptions, that side of things. Personally, I don't think we'll ever get into that sort of position. Mhmm.
I also think well, there's two things. Number one, not node runners can change this. So if they are running not because they don't like JPEGs, but they do like Whirlpool transactions, then they can alter their transaction filtering so that it can let those through. But, again, I just personally don't think we're ever gonna get into that sort of position.
[00:45:42] Unknown:
I don't either because it's more like, there's only so many podcast hosts and, like, influencers. But do you know what I mean? There's there is a level where it's like, oh, you could only possibly have that percentage to the network because most people who run Bitcoin and use Bitcoin don't have podcasts or are influencers.
[00:46:01] Unknown:
That's fair. Very tongue in cheek, but somewhat accurate as well. Yeah. So if one of these guys knew
[00:46:07] Unknown:
what Whirlpool was or why privacy mattered or any of that stuff, which is very unlikely. But if they did, what would they do? They would go in some settings, and they just change the limit to 80 or a 100 or so that they could include it? I'm not sure precisely what the data line would be called, but you'd go into the config, and there's a setting for off return data size. I think it might be data carrier size or something like that. Okay. And you can bump that up from the default in knots, I believe, is 40. Okay. Well, if you are that rare unicorn that actually uses Bitcoin but also likes knots and you want to make sure that you could relay these transactions, you can do that. I assume there's some guide or something for it.
[00:46:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm sure there is. If there is one, I'll find it. Put it in the show notes. Okay. Very good. Right. Do you wanna do boosts next or a couple of updates and releases?
[00:47:00] Unknown:
Let's do boosts.
[00:47:02] Unknown:
I'll kick it off with Jordan. 10,000 sats. I set up a family member with Envoy a few months ago, and it was the ideal, quote unquote, seedless experience. No need to write down seed phrases, which can disrupt the onboarding process. Just configure the automatic backups, and you're ready to go. If needed, they can easily access their seed phrase by navigating to the menu, selecting backups, and choosing view on voice seed to copy it securely for safekeeping. Thank you for your message, by the way, Jordan. That reads like I wrote it or the I paid Jordan to write it to demonstrate the points we were talking about on the last show. It does. But I didn't do that. I promise. I pinky promise. But it does perfectly demonstrate I think I used the term hybrid approach, didn't I, where we give the user choice. We gently push them down the easiest path where they have an automatic encrypted backup. To be clear, we're talking about a hot wallet here, not passport cold storage. As in when they learn and they get some more funds into the wallet, we'd be like, hey, you see Phrase there. Do you wanna back it up as well? So best of both worlds. So thank you for perfectly demonstrating that in a very eloquent way, Jordan. I can't believe you get a message so nice from Jordan.
Oh, I get many horrible ones in DMs as well. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. He's
[00:48:14] Unknown:
he verges on abusive. But thanks, Jordan. That's very, very nice message. Anonymous with three thousand three hundred and thirty three sats. Expat is Asian gay, not just gay. I assume that's expatriotic. I entered a name in my Podverse app just for him. Now it won't say Anon. Hope he is satisfied. Note from expatriotic. Fail harder bro. Still Anon.
[00:48:45] Unknown:
I have no idea what's going on there. I love that there's just two nims having an argument in the boosts. Yeah. Also, for anonymous, whoever you are, although I have a sneaking suspicion, can you explain the difference between gay and Asian gay? Maybe that make that your next boost. Well, Asian gays are usually just a little bit shorter. Okay. Fair enough. Usually. I'd be disappointed if that's the only difference, though. Let us know. Anonymous. And they've normally got straighter darker hair as well. Silky hair. This is where we need John to do one of his voices.
[00:49:14] Unknown:
Have a one.
[00:49:18] Unknown:
You know, they approached us trying to sponsor the show. Oh, I thought you were gonna say they approached us to say stop taking the piss out of us. No. They love it. They absolutely love it. Really? Yeah. And you didn't have them on the show because
[00:49:30] Unknown:
Well, we'll get to it. We'll get there eventually. Okay. It's still back and forth. We've got translators involved and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, they Oh, what the fuck? I've literally got John calling me. Let's pipe him through onto the show. Have you got the the technical chops to do that? John, we're live, me and Q at the moment. He said, oh, well, hell. Alright. Any message for, Q or the listeners? He loves that sweet little robot boy of his. I love you too, dad. He said, I love you too, dad.
[00:50:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Alright. Love you, dad. That's as raw as it gets.
[00:50:06] Unknown:
He said, you guys are good kids. I love you boys. I wish I could have piped that through. Yeah. That would have been great. Anyway, love you too, John. I'm too dumb for that sort of stuff. Back to the show. Back to the show. Bitcoin Derby,
[00:50:22] Unknown:
0.032. Bitcoin Derby, Come back in July after the great defeat of Nazis and communists. This month, we discuss running Tails OS as well as an other great software. Saturday, July, 3PM, yield dolphin d e one three D l. Anyone is welcome. Hashtag free samurai. Love that. I'm glad they mentioned Tails OS because I had a little light bulb moment, when I was working a few weeks ago. Oh, yeah. And I said to the clever people at Foundation, the ones that do all of the technical stuff. Yeah. I said, I want to live in a world where I can run Tails OS on my Passport Prime. Can you make that happen for me? Oh. And they said, maybe.
[00:51:15] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:51:15] Unknown:
Well, that would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it? Yeah. That would be. Just have a little Tails OS app that turns it into a bootable kind of image on a USB, essentially. Plug it into your computer. Hey, presto. You've got your tails. I like it. Okay. Yeah. Let's see. Unfortunately, if there's one thing I've learned in my four years at Foundation, it's that you'll never get the devs to say, yeah, a definite yes to anything straight away. Yeah. Maybe.
[00:51:41] Unknown:
Maybe.
[00:51:43] Unknown:
You're a good boy. Richard Grieser,
[00:51:45] Unknown:
speaking of good boys, sent 1,050 sats. I know he streamed 1,050
[00:51:52] Unknown:
sats. Yeah. We got lots of streamers this week. Oh, it's really way more streamers than we usually get. John with 690, Plaid two, Polymath, 640, We All Eat, 500, Turkey, 500 sats, Bob the Cow, that's a new name to me.
[00:52:09] Unknown:
Bob the cow?
[00:52:10] Unknown:
500 sats. They also boosted and said, I get a bone not thinking about digital privacy. Don't be all, mate.
[00:52:17] Unknown:
Riavand strokes with 500 sats. Is the Bolt 12 payments in Phoenix now not new also?
[00:52:27] Unknown:
Just noticed it with this new update mentioned. Been there for at least six months or so, I'd say. Okay. Yeah. K. The problem with it is it's just not that prevalent or spoken about at the moment because Phoenix is like the only mobile wallet with Vault 12, I think. I'm I wish I hadn't said that now because there's gonna be loads of people in the comments saying, no. You can do it here. It's one of the only really popular or widely used ones with it. So it's like Phoenix to Phoenix only.
[00:52:53] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:52:54] Unknown:
You can, I believe, use it in ZooSport? The prerequisite there is that you have your own core lightning node, and not many people run those. So everybody else is on l and d, which doesn't speak Boltz well. So that's why it isn't as hyped as it should be in my opinion. Okay. Base potato
[00:53:09] Unknown:
also streamed 460 sats. War time, 333 sats with a beer. A I b l e with 200 sats. Seedless can only be safer if the safety is protecting you from losing your own words. Keep up the great work, gentlemen. So you're just gonna be safe. Like a little riddle, that one, isn't it? Yeah. It's like one of those she sells seashells on the seashore.
[00:53:35] Unknown:
Yes. Like, I'm black. I'm white. I'm yellow. I'm I glow in the wind. What am I? Newspaper
[00:53:40] Unknown:
that's got piss on it. That's the yellow bit. I don't know. I just made those things up. So yeah. You're right. Yes. Because there's that one that's, what's black and white and red all over. That's a newspaper.
[00:53:51] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think Abel's right in what he says, though. But, again, it comes back to my point of you can only achieve that sort of thing by doing something fancy like multisig or Shamir or something like that. Because otherwise. But, yes, I I think I tend to agree, Abel. Okay.
[00:54:08] Unknown:
Yo Jimble streamed 80 sats. Jesus is King streamed 70 sats. VmVD, 60 sats streamed. Gearhead zero six two one, 60 sat streamed, and cyborg 30 sat streamed. Was that Karen? Gear head o six two one. Probably. Yeah. I mean, that would fit, wouldn't it? You fucking juicer.
[00:54:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Love to see all the streamers coming through. Obviously, very, very thankful for all the boosters as well. But, yes. Cool to see a nice mix. It is nice. It is nice. One thing I do think, though, and I'm gonna be corrected on this, I'm sure, by Jordan.
[00:54:50] Unknown:
I don't think streamed sets go towards pushing us up in the rankings Oh. Which gives us less exposure. So, like, when we're number one, number two, number three, number four, like, you're up there and people sort of see us. I don't think fountain counts. I don't know why, but I don't think they count streamed sats towards that, which is a bit gay. Okay. Well, Oscar, if you're listening, please confirm or deny. Yeah. Let me know. I might be completely wrong, but I think that's the case. If that is the case, it'd be cool if that was changed because all these lovely people streaming sats and showing support, it'd be nice for them to be counted towards her. Absolutely.
[00:55:30] Unknown:
Okay. Just a couple of updates and releases worth mentioning this time around, mate. The god tier level software, Zeus version 0.11, main release has been released. This is not one of the 3,000 release candidates that they do. This is the main release, so it's ready for the prime time. Okay. This release features experimental Cashew e cash support.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
Good.
[00:55:55] Unknown:
What? That wasn't me. That was one of the kids in the background that I know. Stop saying that. So, yes, the controversial one amongst our circles, I guess, would be that there's an addition of Cashew here so that you can do custodial stuff in Zeus. I will say or, you know, I've been very clear about my thoughts on Casu and custodial systems. The only plus point I give the guys here is in terms of their implementation here. Like, the warnings are are very stark. They're very clear. They even have, like, nice animations where it get redder and redder the more you've got in an IOU account. Okay. I'm quoting here. Cashew is part of our new graduated wallet system, which seems to be all the rage at the moment. New users are able to get set up quickly without having to learn about channel capacities or having to purchase a channel from the LSP.
They can have their first magical moments with lightning, well, in echo lightning in my opinion, and even get a lightning address. Then as economic self custody becomes viable, e g, you know, they've got more than like a couple of sats, their zoo sats will prompt them to upgrade with a lightning channel of their own and provide them with educational material. So I do take my hat off to them there. Like, although we're quick to shit on Cashew and custodial shit, there is a void being filled where if you wanna receive a 100 sats, you just can't do that in non custodial Lightning because channels etcetera.
But they are managing the risk to the user as best they can by as soon as it's economically viable saying, hey. By the way, you've still got IOUs. Do you wanna open a channel so that you can actually self custody them? So I commend them for that. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. I feel like Evan's always been pretty,
[00:57:35] Unknown:
open and honest about trade offs and things. Like, he's you know, I've been whinging about lightning a lot. I was saying to, Black Coffee a couple of days ago. I was like, I'm having a lot more success with lightning recently than I was previously.
[00:57:49] Unknown:
Yep.
[00:57:50] Unknown:
Much more of my payments are actually going through, which is really nice. It's like what you hope for out of a payment. And I thought I'd quite like to cover some of the lightning stuff again soon. And then I was like, who's not fucking annoying and chilly and, like, doesn't accept that there are problems?
[00:58:10] Unknown:
I thought of Evan. I thought I should probably get Evan back on soon and and chat about some lightning stuff. Absolutely. Would love to hear it. Evan is the man. Zeus is god tier software. So, yeah, we'd love to get an update from him. It's been a while. Should we have a little threesome or something like that? Yeah. I mean, I'm game. I'm game. Okay. Well, Evan, if you're listening, come join us. Just to cap off this update, they've also got swaps now as well within Zeus. So Zeus swap service allows users to swap on chain funds for lightning funds and vice versa without having to open or close channels. This service leverages submarine swaps that can be performed without custody or counterparty risk. Very cool. And I believe on the back end, this is using Bolts, which is a long standing swap service. Yes. It is. It's using Bolts.
But pretty cool that you can do that. I like Bolts. Yeah. I I've used it a fair amount. Yeah. You can use that within the app, which is very cool. So if you wanna go from on chain to Lightning and vice versa, then you can do that as well. Very nice. Oh, ah, very cool as well. You can also in the Zeus app, users have the option of selecting Zeus swaps, Boltz, or any Boltz based swap services as the provider. So it's not just that you're locked down to a specific swap service. You can go in there and choose which one you wanna use at any time. Nice. That's pretty cool. And then finally, new Lightning address types.
Zeus Pay is expanding to three different address types in Zeus fee 0.11. So we covered Zeus Pay last time. So if you're wondering what that is, then go back and listen. But we've got Casio addresses, Zapplocker addresses. So Casio addresses allow you to pick your mint and start receiving Zapp straight away. Reminder, that's an IOU. You're not in self custody. Zaplocker addresses are the first ever self custodial Lightning addresses for mobile, and these were debuted back in Zeus version 0.8. And you can also use Nostra Wallet Connect addresses for remote node runners as well. So once again, continuing to be like the Swiss army knife type wallet of the Lightning Network. I'm here for it. Very good. And then final piece of news, mate, before we round it out is the boys and girls over at Bitbox released a new or updated device in Prague last weekend. Oh, yeah. The Bitbox o two Nova. Have a look. A new hardware wallet for Bitcoin. So the highlights here, one of which I found very strange, is that the new one is now compatible with iOS. Although I had zero understanding that the old one wasn't compatible with iOS. So Mhmm. I guess they've opened themselves into a pretty big market there. And this one's also got encrypted Bluetooth as well. Haven't read the technical details of that, but looking at the headlines, it seems like it's kind of like an encrypted Bluetooth version, like similar to, Quantum Link that we've got in the upcoming Passport Prime as well. Okay. The form factor seems almost identical to the older device. So USB stick style design with the touch buttons on the top, and a pretty small screen.
[01:01:02] Unknown:
And you can get this in midnight black or polar white. Well, a lot of people whinged about the usability of it because it's, like, quite small and you've got, like, a little scrolly bit at the bottom, which is all touchscreen. I have to say, I didn't mind it. I got sent one by them ages ago just to test and have a play around, and it's one of the less shitty ones that I've used. So I don't mind them. I think they're alright. I think for the price point and if someone wants, like, a smaller device for some reason or
[01:01:32] Unknown:
whatever. I don't think they're bad. It's one of the few I've actually not tried. Never even held one, so can't pass any comment. Really? Mhmm. Yeah. They're not too bad. I'd advise that over a lot of the other shit that you see people using. Yeah. Good team behind them as well. They don't seem to get involved in any drama. They just No. You know, quietly ship, and they've been around for a long time. Yeah. Cool. Any other bits to cover? I think we've got to the end of my listening. Yeah. That was a fun one. Enjoyed diving into the Whirlpool stuff. That was obviously the standout piece of news from this show. I'm looking forward to covering any further developments on that front. As always, just steer your own research, tread carefully, enjoy diving into the pool. Yeah. Definitely. Well, thank you very much to the Ashigaru team for doing this massive, massive step. Means a lot. Very excited about it. We'll see what all the fighting ends up being, but we'll still cover that. As always,
[01:02:25] Unknown:
hashtag
[01:02:25] Unknown:
free samurai. Free samurai.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.
[00:00:11] Unknown:
Bitcoin. Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cakewallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cakepay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show.
[00:02:44] Unknown:
Hello, mate. Good afternoon, sleepyhead.
[00:02:48] Unknown:
You're not gonna let that one go. I missed our brief. It was meant to be yesterday, and I slept right through it. I woke up to a load of messages.
[00:02:57] Unknown:
You didn't think I was gonna let the listeners not find out about it, did you?
[00:03:03] Unknown:
Soft, soft southern cunt.
[00:03:06] Unknown:
It was for a good cause. Yeah. It was. We'll dive into the details of why shortly after, but you are duly forgiven. Thank you, mate. It was for a noble cause. I'm thankful that you did pull an all night that night with Jordan to get that shot
[00:03:20] Unknown:
ASAP. So, thank you. The problem wasn't that night. It was the fact that the previous night had also been an all nighter. So it was two back to back that really fucked me up, but it came out really well. And, obviously, we're gonna cover some of it. But, there's no real news going on, is there? Is there anything to chat about? Oh, I think we're in the early days of World War three. Are we? Well, do you know what? I know nothing about other than, like, literally, because I don't watch the news or open a paper or do, like, anything or listen to podcasts anymore. Like, nothing. All I've seen is, like, the odd meme about, like, Trump, but I don't really get them. I've seen that cool stealth bomber. There's loads of pictures of that. And then, like, loads of people shitting themselves because the Bitcoin price tanked by, like, 2%.
Then everyone likes saying it's World War three. Kerim's in the group constantly saying it's the end of days in our chat, and I'm like, is it? It doesn't seem like it to me, but maybe it is. The world is a much rosier place, isn't it, when you don't watch the news? Yes. It's quite nice.
[00:04:24] Unknown:
I'm trying to distance myself from it, but I'm kind of getting sucked into it a little bit, like, because I'm curious as to what's actually going on. But seems like America getting involved in another Middle Eastern war yet again. Nice. Nice. Basically, Trump and the boys bombed some military sites in Iran. After that, he said it was a great military success, but then proceeded to say that The US is not at war with Iran. Okay. If dropping tons of bombs onto a country doesn't constitute being at war with them, then I'm not sure what does, really. It was probably friendly. They did it in a friendly way. Maybe they sent, like, a little love heart drawn on it or something like that. Just drew, like, a smiley face on the side of the bomb. Yeah. It's friendly fire because it's got a smiley face on it. Well, the Americans would know all about that, wouldn't they?
[00:05:12] Unknown:
Too soon? Yeah. Well, maybe. I don't know, mate. There's always a war on somewhere all the time. It's just whether it's talked about. With things that are out of my control now, it's really hard to keep control of the things that you can keep control of. Diet, family, sleep, friends, keeping in contact with the people you care about, work, trying to avoid surveillance, trying to keep on top of all your Bitcoin stuff, trying to keep some level of freedom. All that stuff is, like, extremely tiring and time consuming. And it's hard to, like, actually do it consistently.
And then there's something like a war in The Middle East that Trump is deciding to drop some fucking bombs on a nuclear science. Like, I have absolutely no control over that at all. I don't even know what's true and what's not. Like Yeah. It was hard enough to know what's true and what's not a couple of years ago, but now, like, there's two, three times more news. And then, like, there's all the AI stuff, and you don't know whether an image or a video is real or fake, and
[00:06:16] Unknown:
everyone just relies on fucking grok. Grok, is this real? I don't know. It's hard. Yeah. You're absolutely right. It is pretty tough, but, seems to be spooking the markets. The markets are are all over the place at the moment. Like you say, people are flipping out because Bitcoin's dared to dip below a $100,000, which is we get a wild thing to say.
[00:06:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think? Are we are we all gonna die? Is it gonna be World War three? Or
[00:06:42] Unknown:
I don't know. I I think we'll be fine. I think we'll be fine. Yeah. I feel quite safe here in Antarctica. Yeah. You paid the good time to move out into the middle of nowhere. You really did. Yes. Who's gonna drop a bomb on a penguin? That is a very good point. They're probably an endangered species as well. Like, you you probably get in more trouble for hurting a penguin than you were dropping a bomb in Iran. Definitely. Iranians aren't endangered species. All their nuclear sites. I feel like we've just found our clip for the episode. Well, anyway, sorry to any Iranians. It's a bit of shit. Quite nice people. Met lots of Iranians. They seem to generally be very nice. Nice. Not sure I've ever met anyone. Sure. They're lovely. But in the meantime, the rest of us do have to to get on with real life, and I've been working hard as always. Mhmm. I built a new, comparison tool on the foundation website. Yeah.
Oh. We're getting quite a lot of emails and inbound contact from people that are newer to the foundation ecosystem that they're like, I've been hearing a podcast that needs to take self custody, yada yada yada. And, you know, I've come to your website and you've got two devices. Which one should I get? Obviously, you know, that's a fairly long email to be to go into detail about, to be like, well, it depends what you want from a device and do you value a true air gap? Or do you want ease of use and Bluetooth and a touchscreen and blah blah blah. So I thought, you know what? Gonna make you a comparison site where you can just go on and you can just look at them all side by side, compare the specs, compare the sizes, weights, dimensions, features, etcetera, etcetera. So that you can go self serve that shit and, you know, make your own decision based on what you see on screen. I'm just looking through it. I like this. Started out life as just being a comparison page of just our products, but then I thought, well, people are gonna know that there's other manufacturers' devices out there as well, and we'll wanna compare our two kind of flagship devices with those as well. So I did in a third column and I did in, like, the 10 or 11 most popular devices from all of the other manufacturers in the market as well. And did it in such a way where I'm trying to be because one of my pet peeves is that a lot of these comparison things are very heavily weighted towards where they originate from. Yeah. For obvious reason, people just use them as marketing tools, but I wanted to make it as fair as possible. And if one of the competitors is better in a certain area or has a new feature that we don't, then I'm I'm trying to be honest there and highlight that as a plus versus our products. Just as, you know, we highlight where we're better than the competition as well. So put a lot of work into it and there will inevitably be some mistakes or some stuff missing in there. So if you're listening to this and have a look on the website, if you see any mistake, please do let me know. I am human, and there's thousands of data points in there. So
[00:09:16] Unknown:
I'm not sure you are.
[00:09:18] Unknown:
Look to continue to add new devices as in when they come on the market, you know, keep up to date with the latest feature sets and whatnot as well. You got price.
[00:09:26] Unknown:
You've got how to back up. What's in the box? Is it open source? How long is the warranty?
[00:09:34] Unknown:
Connectivity options.
[00:09:35] Unknown:
QR code and what so that's the backup style. Does it have a companion app? Languages,
[00:09:42] Unknown:
companion apps, paid onboarding services, and then it goes really into the nitty gritty. So we've got a hardware section with all the dimensions and the materials and where it's manufactured. Features is the biggest one, obviously. We list all of the different features of each one and what one doesn't have and what another one does have. And then we move down to security aspects. So talking about secure elements, pins, tamper detection, and then the last one is connectivity where we go into detail about all the different connectivity
[00:10:11] Unknown:
features for each of the devices as well. Very nice. And it looks quite fair from what because I was just loading up gayest competitor
[00:10:17] Unknown:
and just checking because I thought, wow. This is the one that if you're gonna do something, it's gonna be with this one. I'm looking through, and it is fair as far as I can see. So I like it. Very good. Nice. Thank you. Feedback always welcomed for anybody listening to this that wants to go check it out. Final, the piece of foundation news is, we had a little feature by Juan Galt in Bitcoin Magazine where he did a bit of a deep dive into Passport Prime after a quick interview with Owen, one of our designers as well. If you're new to all this and you're like, what the hell is Passport Prime? Could be a good little primer for you. Nice. Oh, good little primer. I like that. That was completely unintentional as well.
[00:10:53] Unknown:
Just own it, mate. Just say, yeah. I'm a tell you that. I had some feedback for you. Oh. I was using my, passport core, as you now call it yesterday. And this key manager extension, I've started using, and it's really nice. I got confused at first. This is like me being a retard. I wanted to set up a fresh Ashikaru wallet, and I was like, do you know what? I'm sick of fucking writing seats down and then having multiple multiple different places to back up and, like, it all being a fucking headache. So I thought I'm just gonna actually do this today using this BIP 85 method. And then I was like, right. So I'm gonna make another account. And then I was like, no. I can't do that because accounts are actually just different derivation paths, and therefore, I'd have to enter my seed words in, and therefore, it would compromise what I've got. And that's 24, and the other one's 12 and blah blah blah. Took me a while. I don't know why. I was just, like, being retarded. And I was like, oh, this thing shit. Like, this doesn't fucking work. And I was like, right. Let's see what Q has to say about it. So I went on and watched your video, and then I came across the key manager bit. And then I was like, This is good. So I use my key manager, create 12 words, then that's backed up with all my other stuff. So, like Mhmm. Worse comes to worse, I lose my phone or bit of paper I write it down on or whatever. It's fine as long as I've got my master backup on the micro SD. And then manually enter that into Ashigaru, add a passphrase. It's the only bit you've gotta do is add the passphrase with that particular wallet. So that's obviously gotta be kept separately just the way it works. But now I was like, this is brilliant because I actually have things backed up properly, and I don't have to worry about losing
[00:12:36] Unknown:
my wallets. It's really nice. Oh, nice. I was waiting for the bit where you criticized us actually, the way you, started out with that conversation. But, yeah, I cosign it all. I I use it in a very similar way where I use passports and the key manager functions are popular all my mobile wallets. Yeah. It's a game changer. Yeah. The one thing that I'm looking forward to as well is, like, when Prime comes out, that would be somewhere that I might store
[00:13:00] Unknown:
potentially, like, passphrases in a separate device or something like that. Yeah. Because that's still the bit where it's like you can't create notes or anything like that in core. It's like you can create the keys, but you can't do anything outside of that. Whereas my understanding with Prime is you'll be able to have your two FA stuff. You'll be able to import different files. So that might be a good way to separate the two. It's like, okay. Well, I've got my keys with core, but then, actually, I've got my different codes and my different passphrases and stuff like that in this separate device, meaning that you don't have to then have things on paper, and you just have your micro SD backups slash steal, which I think is, like, pretty fucking nice and hard to fuck up way of keeping all your stuff in one place without the security
[00:13:51] Unknown:
dropping away. Yep. And don't forget, you'll also have an optional encrypted cloud backup of all that two FA stuff and all, you know, additional stuff that you've just talked about. Mhmm. If you wanted to, you can have that all backed up automatically in an encrypted fashion to the cloud as well. But you don't have to. Absolutely. No. No. We'll never force you into anything at Foundation.
[00:14:11] Unknown:
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that because I did sit there and go, oh, fucking hell. This doesn't even work because I can't do it. And I had, like, a little retarded moment, and I, like, fully own that. But then once I'd worked out that key manager, I was like, I like this. Also, the fact that you can do the Noster keys from it and all that kind of stuff, I was like, actually, this is you don't just sit on your ass there, mate. I might give you shit, but you guys are doing some good stuff. We do put a lot of thought and effort into things. Yeah. Absolutely. No. We appreciate that feedback. And I'm glad you mentioned that actually because
[00:14:43] Unknown:
you just jogged my memory for something. Yesterday, we sent an email out and put a post in the community forum asking for video feedback on people who have switched to passport from a competitor. We're asking for that in video format. There's absolutely no requirement for people to put their face on video if they don't want. We just want, like, a thirty second video of featuring your passport, why you like it, why you switched from Ledger, Coldcard, Trezor, wherever you came from, what the differences were, and, you know, what made you make that shift in the first place. So if anybody wants to get involved with that and earn a guaranteed $25 in Bitcoin, we're paying out for every single video submission Oh, fucking hell. I'll be doing that then. Then, yeah, please feel free to get involved. You know, you'll find all the details on the community forum. Yeah. As I say, $25 guaranteed payout for every single video submitted that meets the criteria of minimum thirty seconds. The most creative ones will go into a draw to win $250 of Bitcoin as well.
[00:15:40] Unknown:
Very nice. Can you do that for every passport you've bought? Because I've bought, like, 10 of them to give to friends and people. That's some good money. You may find a loophole in the system there where you could submit multiple from different email addresses, so I might need to plug that gap. As me sat. What are you doing, Max? Yeah. I'm I'm really busy, mate. We can't record this week. Why? I've got this new job. I'm just Submit thousands of videos in a day. Yeah. I'm fucking I'm raking in, like, $10 a day at the moment. I'm fucking getting so many videos. To be clear, we've capped it at the first 100 videos, the pay payout.
[00:16:14] Unknown:
But we've had nowhere near that yet. We only released it yesterday.
[00:16:18] Unknown:
I wouldn't do that. But, yeah, anyone who does have a passport, definitely do that. But don't show your your face. I think that's a bit gay. I think that's a bit Absolutely not a a requirement whatsoever. Yeah. I think that might not be the most secure thing to do. I think most of our listeners probably wouldn't do that anyway. But, also, don't do it with, like, a dick pic or anything like that because the queue's gotta go through all of these. So don't do any gross, weird stuff. Please don't do any gross, weird stuff. Probably not gonna send you $25 in Bitcoin if you send me a dick pic, to be honest. Okay. Before I put any more horrible ideas in people's heads, what else is going on? I'm sure there was some news.
[00:16:59] Unknown:
There are some news. In fact, there's a very big piece of news that was completely unexpected, knocked me off my feet, but made me smile a lot at exactly the same time. You probably know this better than I do because this is where we come full circle and refer back to why you missed the brief yesterday and why you stayed up all night was because you did a a last minute show in the middle of the night with Jordan Mhmm. Yep. To cover off the fact that Whirlpool is back Mhmm. From within the Ashigaru ecosystem.
[00:17:34] Unknown:
Oh, yes. We couldn't just ignore that one. Came out of nowhere. Suddenly, my phone starts blowing up, and it's people, like, sending me Whirlpool's back. Whirlpool's back. Whirlpool's back. You need to do a pod. You need to, like, just ping ping ping ping ping ping ping. TSB and all the other groups. Jordan was messaging me the same. Like, guys, back. It's back. It's back. I was like, right. We need to jump on a call. Should we do it now? So we jumped on, read through their blog post, which is how they sort of let everyone know, you know, they don't do any socials or anything like that. I thought, right, we need to actually test this. So we, we recorded and live tested it and did a mixed live as we recorded. And it all went weirdly smoothly as everyone knows. That's pretty rare for me, but it was very good and very slick. And I jumped into the pool, and the water was warm. Lovely.
[00:18:27] Unknown:
Love to hear it. Yeah. Now, obviously, you and Jordan, I've listened to that show because you showed me before it was released. Thank you for that, by the way. What I wanna do is keep that as the deep dive where, like, Jordan pretty much reads most of the blog posts, and there's gonna be people that don't wanna sit and listen to you and Jordan which went on trying to navigate your way through the terminal for an hour. So I was thinking I'm gonna recap the high level stuff here so that people have got the headlines and signpost them to that other show if they wanna get Yeah. Into the the weeds a bit and, you know, really get to understand it. So if you're a hardcore privacy guy, then listen to us and then go go and listen to, Max and Jordan to, go through the details. Yeah. Definitely do that. But some of the high level stuff. The general structure of how the Whirlpool is gonna work is very, very similar. You're gonna be doing that through Ashigaru terminal, which you'll need to install onto your computer.
Max, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't need to use the same you can just create a new wallet from within that terminal Mhmm. Application so that you can have your own mixing wallet if you wanted to, or you can import your seed from your existing Ashigaru wallet. Is that correct? You can definitely import your seed from the existing Ashigaru wallet.
[00:19:38] Unknown:
I don't know if you can create one on there. I assume you can. I didn't need to because I'd already set one up on the phone. So
[00:19:46] Unknown:
You can because I think Jordan mentioned on your show that Okay. That that's what he did. So you can do either. You can bring your existing wallet or you can create a new one. Passphrases are mandatory as Max mentioned earlier. And then I initially scoffed at the thought of it being terminal because as you know, I'm the resident terminal hater in the Ungovernable Misfits crew. You are. Yeah. Although it is technically in the terminal, it's not like the command line where you're typing commands. It's a terminal menu, isn't it? A bit like the old running dojo for people that would be familiar. Yeah. It's really like that. Or the Raspberry Blitz, they used to do the same thing, didn't they as well? So it's it's just a menu that you go up and down with the arrows on your keyboard, and you press enter or space bar to navigate around. So you don't need to be somebody like Jordan to actually be able to do this. And proof in the pudding was that you also did a mix on the show. Right? Yeah. Did a mix on the show. And, actually, weirdly, I like the interface.
[00:20:39] Unknown:
It's really simple and clean. It's like, okay. It's not flashy. It's not got this, like, amazing UX and just stuff happening all over the place. But in some ways, I prefer that. I always find with, like, Adobe programs and things like that. It's like, oh, look at all this functionality. I can do all this stuff. It's like, I don't know how to fucking do anything here. It's so confusing. Like, there's so much that I can't do anything. Whereas this is, like, left, right, up, down Mhmm. Wallet, and then it you go through. It shows you what you've got there. It's, like, so fucking simple to use and clean. It's black, white, red. No colors. No nothing. Just simple. And it works. And at the end of the day, that's what you want. Good. Well, I'm gonna give you some quick fire questions now, and I want you to give me a quick answer based on I wanna test whether you were listening when you're on with Jordan.
[00:21:25] Unknown:
And if not, I'll give the answer. I actively don't with him. Still free and open source? The client and the coordinator? Good. Is it still running over Tor by default? It's all Tor now. Yes. Oh, nice. I thought that was gonna catch you out. You don't fucking catch me sleeping, mate, except for yesterday. Is there a central dojo where the Ashigarazim run one that you can connect to? No. Correct. So what happens if you don't have a dojo? Can you use this or not? Yes. You can go to Dojo Bay. It's very simple. You can go on there, and you can just scan a QR code or copy and paste, whatever they call it. I also believe you can connect to any third party Electrum server as well. Obviously, there's some privacy trade offs to doing that even though it's over to all. But you could connect to a public one like you would to with Spiro or something like that as well. Yeah. Or you can run your own Dojo. There's multiple ways of doing that. And one of them is the the start line option, which Jordan's worked hard on. So there's loads of different ways. Yep. We still got four liquidity pools. Right? 100,000 sats, 1,000,000 sats, 5,000,000 sats, 50,000,000 sats? Unfortunately not Okay. At the moment. So we've got new pool sizes. Yeah. So you've got
[00:22:34] Unknown:
0.025.
[00:22:37] Unknown:
So that's 2,500,000.
[00:22:39] Unknown:
Yeah? Which is about 2 and a half grand. And you've got 0.25, which is obviously 25 grams. 25,000,000. Wow. Okay. So and it's just those two pool sizes for now. Is that right? It is. Yeah. We did talk about this a little bit, and we don't know this, but we're guessing that the team probably doesn't have time to deal with a billion questions and moans and whinges from, like, the smaller amount of money someone pays for service, the more they want from you as a general rule. It's like a weird upside down topsy-turvy world like that. So my guess is they're gonna rely on the more hardcore privacy people who've probably been around for a longer time, who have already used Whirlpool previously, and who are not gonna come at them with a billion questions and take up all their time when they wanna be developing. So that's my guess anyway is why it's starting with those larger amounts. And my guess is that they do add more options in the future. Mhmm. More pool sizes. What are the fees like? 5% of the pool size that you enter with a maximum of 20 UTXOs.
Oh, fuck at this, ladies and gentlemen. I promise you I'm not reading this as well. I actually remember this. If you're joining a pool, you wanna try and which I didn't do annoyingly. I just didn't have the like, this is a lot of money. Like Yeah. There's no getting around that. I understand why they've done what they've done, but I was like, fucking hell. Alright. I've got this is a lot to try and find either pool that you try and join. So, ideally, what you wanna do is have as close to 20 UTXOs out of the input that you put in.
I don't suggest to anyone that you put multiple UTXOs and join them together because that can cause issues. It's something I've done in the past and regret. So you wanna find the fastest UTXO you that you have that gets you to the most amount of UTXOs on the output side because then your fee is much lower as a percentage of your input, if that makes sense. Yeah. So what you're trying to say is if I was to enter the 2,500,000.0
[00:24:58] Unknown:
sat pool Yes. It's gonna cost me 5% of that whether I enter with just over 2,500,000.0 sats or if I enter with 20,000,000 sats. The fee is exactly the same.
[00:25:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. So your fee as a percentage drops dramatically the larger amount that you put in. And that makes sense, and there's loads of, like, reasons for that because of SIPL and different attacks and stuff like that. So it makes sense. And the other thing is, although I did a mix where I was like, I'm not being as efficient as I could be if I had more money, I kind of was like, that's okay because I wanna support these guys. What they're doing is extremely brave and very, very important. And so I was like, I just see that bit as like, fuck it. That's a bit of a donation. Like, here you go. Keep developing. You know, I could have been way, way, way more efficient if I had more money, but I wanted to test it. And, yeah, let's go. And to be clear, the 5% fixed fee is the same
[00:25:54] Unknown:
as it was in the samurai version of Whirlpool. That's right. Isn't it? The only difference here is the the pool denominations.
[00:26:01] Unknown:
Can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't remember if it was 5%. I mean, they had a calculator previously,
[00:26:07] Unknown:
which I built that. Did you? You're welcome. I had some help, but I built it.
[00:26:13] Unknown:
Whatever they say about you, don't listen. Don't listen when they call you a useless, fucking, emboldened, sniveling, cunty little robot.
[00:26:21] Unknown:
Squeaky, greasy, little cunt. When they say that, just go, no. I built that. So, yes, I know the answer to that question. It it was 5% fixed of the pool size. So as you correctly said, the more you enter each pool with, your fee percentage of the amount that you enter with drops significantly.
[00:26:39] Unknown:
Yeah. One thing I'll just say again to anyone who's listening who might be newer, I really strongly advise you do not put multiple UTXOs in at the same time because that can hurt your privacy. And it's something that could be tempting because you're like, oh, well, if I add these two or these five, whatever, however many it is together, then that brings my fees down as a percentage. But suddenly, now you're linking these inputs, and it becomes clear that you were the owner of all of these, and it could slash most likely would hurt your privacy. Personally, I would only do one UTXO
[00:27:22] Unknown:
at a time. Yeah. I'm gonna push back there slightly. I understand completely why you're saying that, but there are certain circumstances where that would be an okay trade off and you would benefit significantly from doing that. A perfect example would be if you're fine with the trade offs of KYC or you like to stack repeatedly on something like bull Bitcoin or Bitter or something like that where you do your DCA where it's known that you are the same person buying from a centralized entity time after time after time. Those UTXOs are already bagged and tagged as being yours, irrespective of whether, you know, you've got 10 of them or just one of them. True. So if that was me in that position, which for obvious reasons it wouldn't be, but if that was you, then that would be an okay trade off. And I would happily say to that person, if you're gonna go into Whirlpool, then, yeah, combine them because you're gonna save a lot of money in fees.
[00:28:13] Unknown:
That's fair. Yeah. That's totally fair. And it's obvious that it's coming from one entity, and it's yeah. Mhmm. I agree with that. What I'm saying is that for most use cases, for most people listening here, if you're buying no KYC or you're earning here or this bit's changed from another spend, you've got all these different UTXOs that could link you in different ways once you combine them. One thing I we always talked about previously was, like, it'd be really nice to have on the input side some way of that being not just your five UTXOs that you're putting in on the input side, but that that was a collective thing between multiple parties. Like, multiparty input
[00:28:55] Unknown:
would be really, really nice. Yeah. I remember that being spoken about years ago, multiparty TXO.
[00:29:01] Unknown:
Yeah. That's something like to me, I'm obviously fucking retarded. But from my very basic understanding of how this stuff works, that's the one bit where I'm like, that can be a real foot gun. That can be a real fuck up. Like, because I know because I've fucked it up. So that's something that I have no idea how you could do it. I have no idea if there's reasons not to
[00:29:21] Unknown:
or whatever. But to me, it seems like maybe something that could come in the future. But until then, just be thoughtful about how you use it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So a couple of other things to be aware of. Just going back to what you mentioned earlier around, like, how many UTXOs you can get out, they're limiting that at the moment to 20 outputs, aren't they, per pool entry. Right? Yes. So what happens to the remainder? Let's say I'm a bit of a whale. I've got a full Bitcoin and I enter the the 2,500,000.0 SAP pool. Like, I'm gonna get I'm not being accurate with the maths here, but let's say I get 20 outputs.
What happens? Where does the change go? What do I do with it? What's the the outcome there? Well, what we've done is we've set up a fund for
[00:30:05] Unknown:
me because I haven't had a holiday for a while. It used to go to what they call bad bank, but it now goes to fund Max's holiday. He's gonna get on the biz
[00:30:16] Unknown:
with q. We're just basically gonna have a right laugh with any sales name. Okay. So the the serious answer to that question is that it goes into bad bank. Right? Bad bank. And that's just a separate segregated account. And if the remainder in there is large enough to enter one of the smaller pools, then I can do that directly from bad bank. Yeah? Yes. Correct. So those funds that go into bad bank don't have to be looked at as, like, a write off or anything? Yeah. That's right. And the one thing I've noticed though is I can't see I'm sure you can. I just haven't worked out how to do it. Can't see BadBank
[00:30:50] Unknown:
within Ashigaru on the phone. Okay. I can only see it in this terminal. So I'm sure you can see it and I'm just being dumb, but just for people who might do it and then like, oh, fuck. Where's that money gone? It hasn't gone. It's just in bad bank. One thing I'm not sure as well, because I always used to do the same thing. It's like mix it down, especially when you have those smaller pools, you know, 100,000 sat pools and stuff. You could sort of do that a lot easier. But could you technically send the bad bank out? Like, could you untack it as a Yep. Do not spend, and you could do something with it if you wanted to. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's a non custodial wallet at the end of the day, so you're still fully in control.
[00:31:29] Unknown:
The bit that I think is accurate at the moment is that, like you say, the bad bank is only accessible from the terminal.
[00:31:35] Unknown:
So and I'm sure Mhmm. The the next version of Ashigara will give access to BadBank if it isn't already there so that you can spend those from the mobile wallet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would think so. But, again, I wouldn't advise that you do it. Be thoughtful about what UTXOs you're using as the input, and then try and be as efficient as you can with everything. And then, obviously, we're gonna hope that there are smaller pools. But until then, you don't wanna have, like, massive amounts of bad bank where you're like, fuck. I actually need to spend some Bitcoin. You're like, oh, shit. I don't have any that I can use. You know? Just be a bit thoughtful about it. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:32:10] Unknown:
Stating the obvious for this one, but I'm asking the question for the benefit of the audience. Still a centralized coordinator, right, run by a single entity? Yeah. I think it has to be. So yes. Okay. And do we know I I I'm fully aware that the Ashigari team are they're not on social media or anything like that. So I guess it's unclear at this point as to whether there is gonna be a push to move back towards that decentralized coordination that I know Sam and I were working on before all of all of the takedowns.
[00:32:38] Unknown:
Yeah. I would assume so. We just don't know. We don't know. Obviously, we did the interview with Ashigaru dev. I think we talked about it or, like, the possibility of Whirlpool coming back, but, you know, they were giving nothing away there. I don't know. I would assume that that would be the case, but I think they have to have a centralized coordinator Mhmm. For now. Whether they manage to do the decentralized
[00:33:02] Unknown:
option or not, I don't know. No one can really know. Well, like I say, I don't wanna be seen as to be that guy that's always replying into Twitter to be like, when the next thing because like you said, these guys are being incredibly brave, whoever they are. So even just to get to this stage, like, I take my hats off and I commend them for what they've done. So I'm just asking for the benefit of the listeners. I don't wanna be seen to be that guy that's just like, oh, when the next thing because, like, this is big as it is. Yeah. It's massive. I found myself doing that. I was like, oh, can't I mix from the phone? Like, like, no. That'd be easier. And then I was like, listen, you little cunt.
[00:33:34] Unknown:
They've this is not easy stuff to do, and there are risks involved. The fact that you've gotta download one more fucking application to your computer and and spend, like, two minutes setting it up to allow yourself to have this level of privacy that you were just whinging for the last year about losing and how important it was and how much of an issue this was to the whole ecosystem. Now you want it back. I just caught myself. Like, because you we do. Like, it's just like, whatever you have in life, you're always like, oh, well, it would be nice to have this. You know? Oh, well, you know, that would be but this is a huge step, and I'm I'm sure that they're gonna work towards those other things. Yeah. Absolutely. Again, as much as I hate the terminal, like, it's actually a better place to leave mixes running. Like, you're gonna get way more remixes by leaving a the command line's all running than trying to keep your phone open and alive if it was available in the mobile app. Yeah. Just in the interest of being open and honest with everything because we've always been sort of very much on the samurai and Whirlpool and that whole ecosystem side. We've always been sort of, like, almost fanboys about it because it's always been the best in our mind. But I'll be honest, when there are problems, I'll obviously always find them. I always find any problem. I fuck everything up. So one thing I've noticed with my terminal, and this is on Mac, it's just, like, totally frozen this morning.
So it ran for a couple of days absolutely fine, but it's totally frozen with, like, the wheel of death, like, the colorful wheel of death that you get on Macs. And for some reason, I can't force quit either. So if I go force quit, it pulls up all my other programs, applications that are running, but it does not show the swing terminal frame it's called. It doesn't show that. So I can't close it or do anything with it at this point. And I'm sure if I just turn my computer off and turned it on again, it'd probably clear it, and it'd probably be fine. I've just got too many things that I'm doing at the moment that I can't actually do that. But I just thought I'd mention that in case anyone comes up with the same problem or if the Ashigaru team are listening. I'm not whinging. I'm very grateful, but I'm just reporting honestly. Absolutely. Talking of being honest and talking about trade offs, there's one thing I'm gonna bring up in a second. But before I do that, one thing we did fail to cover that we the final thing we should spell out for the listeners is that there's gonna be people listening to this that are already in the samurai Whirlpool
[00:35:57] Unknown:
kind of liquidity pool. They're gonna have load of mixed outputs that are like a 100,000, million sats, 50,000,000, 5,000,000 sats. Those people cannot bring those wallets online and continue to mix. That's correct, isn't it? It is correct. Yeah. So this is a brand new liquidity pool for obvious reasons. Obviously, the output amounts are different. Here, we've got zero point two five and zero point zero two five BTC for now. So it is gonna be a distinct and very different liquidity pool to the massive one that was built up from the Whirlpool v one for one of a better term. Yeah. I can't remember the exact reasoning for that. I think it was not wanting to bring in and link
[00:36:36] Unknown:
what could possibly have been viewed when the Fed seized servers and stuff. So it's like a privacy concern. Like, starting fresh is probably the wisest and safest move, and that's what they've gone with. I agree. It doesn't mean that those people can't use those mixed UTXOs and bring them into this new liquidity pool. Obviously, everyone can do that. So I think think that makes perfect sense. Yeah. Agreed. I think that was a good kind of high level, but with enough detail. Just wanna signpost people to three places.
[00:37:10] Unknown:
All of this will be in the show notes, by the way. There's two blog posts by the Ashi Gauri team. One announcing the new coordinator, and the second one announcing the terminal version one, which is like the Whirlpool client that Matt was using on the other show. And then the third one is Catan, the absolute legend, was almost hotter off the press than you and Jordan were. And he came out Unbelievable. Almost immediately. It must have been within a few hours with a blog post and the video to go with it so that you can watch him use the terminal on Testnet to do some mixes,
[00:37:40] Unknown:
go through the entire setup process. So would, strongly suggest people go and check that out if you wanna kinda see what all of this looks like and bring it all to life based on what we've just been talking about as well. This guy, we were, like, mid recording. He was, like, just being released. We're, like, bang. We're gonna get straight into this mid recording, and Jordan's like, oh, yeah. There's a guide up. And I was like, what fucking freak of nature has managed to do a guide already? It's like, Catan. I was like, okay. That makes sense. Nice.
[00:38:07] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So they just wanna cap this whole Whirlpool Ashigari thing off with some things that I saw on social media that I'm for reasons that will will come clearly shortly, unable to verify. However, you know, I wanna be like you said, I don't just wanna be seen as a shill. I wanna make people aware of potential trade offs with this new Whirlpool ecosystem. So this is very new. I think it came out late last night as we record where there's been some fingers pointed to say that allegedly there's some holes in the Whirlpool coordinator code that are still present from the samurai Whirlpool because obviously, you know, the Ashigaru team have forked off from that and created their own very similar architecture. And allegedly, there's some things to do with RSA public keys and being able to unblind signatures and potentially map inputs to outputs.
There's lots of code snippets, which mean absolutely zero to me, and there's some lots of, you know, technical comments from people who are far cleverer than I that say that, you know, there's some holes here that need to be patched before people can use this and not fully trust the coordinator to be a good actor. I think it's best if we just link those in the show notes and let people make up their own minds. I'm just completely unable to verify all of the fingers that have been pointed at the moment. So if we can get some feedback from the Ashigari team, it would be wonderful, obviously, but I know they're not always forthcoming with being public, nor do they have any obligation to answer any of these accusations that are being made. But I just wanted to make people aware that there seems to be some fingers being pointed in both directions.
Mhmm. We've got the floppy disk guy and NothingMuch, who I believe used to be a Wasabi dev, although he had a big spat with them and left because he alleged that they were also useless. They these are the ones that are saying that maybe some of the things that Ashikhar Hussain have been fixed have not been fully fixed. But then on the other side, there's people I think one of the nims on Twitter, Noosphere, has kind of gone back and forth with various different AIs and done some code review, and is saying that these accusations are not true and that they the holes have been fixed and that there isn't any cause for concern. Once again, I'm unable to kind of verify either way. So we're just kind of making people aware that what's being said from both parts, and we'll link to all that in the show notes and let people make up their own mind. And hopefully, we can get some clarity in the weeks that follow as to what's the truth and what isn't. If I was a betting man, I'd say there's probably somewhere in the middle where some things are true and some things are not. Yeah. I guess we'll just see when it all comes out in the wash. It's tough, isn't it, with this stuff? Because there's just a level where you're like, there's two people shouting at each other, but they're shouting in fucking Japanese.
[00:40:50] Unknown:
That's exactly yeah. It's like they're talking a different language. You're like, okay. I mean, this one definitely is louder. That one dresses better. But I have no fucking idea which one is telling the truth or what is even being said. It gets to that level. And with most of us, then it's just like there always is a level of trust somewhere, and you sort of have to go, okay. These five people who over the last ten years have always been pretty much bang on and honest with everything. They're all saying this, and then there's this fucking retard who just, like, constantly lies and talks shit who is saying this. Okay. Well, there's probably 10 people who are telling the truth. No. They're probably right. But at this stage,
[00:41:31] Unknown:
hard to know. It is hard to know. Yeah. As soon as it gets this technical and you start talking about RSA keys and blinded oracles and all that sort of stuff, it's just yeah. I glaze it over. Yeah. Well, be aware. Be aware. Let's see how it unfolds.
[00:41:44] Unknown:
I'm comfortable enough to mix because I've seen what these guys have done so far. Many people that I respect
[00:41:53] Unknown:
have reviewed this stuff and seem very happy with it. So I'm sort of trusting in the groups of the people that I've known for a long time and that have always done things properly at this stage. So that's just me. Everyone has to make their own decisions. Yeah. Absolutely. As always, do your own research. Right. A couple of other bits of news. I know we've been running for for quite some time on the the Whirlpool stuff. The archetype dark net market has been seized by the feds. Now I've not heard of this until just now because I'm the pinnacle of society, and I don't visit dark net markets. Have you, seen much about this one? Basically, I think they've took down the website, took over the PGP keys.
Unclear at the moment was to whether there's been any funds seized in relation to this. Looks like it was a joint operation. Operation Deep Sentinel on behalf of the attorney general's office in Frankfurt,
[00:42:43] Unknown:
coordinated law enforcement operation, and there's loads of badges there. They're all very proud of it. Karim wrote something the other day. He was saying something about it maybe a week ago that he said that it's the most not that he visits these sites either, but he was saying it's the most amount of disruption he's ever seen. So I don't know. I don't know past that.
[00:43:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Clearly a bit of a coordinated effort if there's multiple going down at the same time. Yeah. The other funny thing about this well, it's not a funny story, but there's a funny aspect to this story is that the feds have come out with, like, a weird video, like a two minute long animated video to say what they've been up to. And it's it's quite high production value to be honest. And like talking about video cartoon type thing where they are like talking about what they've been up to and it, like, flashes up at the end with all their badges and stuff and comes up with the the name and operation deep sense and all and all the flags of the countries involved and stuff. And I just thought it was a very kind of weird move and a weird flex for them, but, they're clearly proud of themselves.
[00:43:45] Unknown:
Well, well
[00:43:47] Unknown:
done. And then the only other piece of news I had, and you'll be really pleased to hear this, Bitcoin knots node percentage seems to be consistently rising. Okay. They're up to well, I believe the latest report that made me check this was 13%. But when I've gone on to Luke Dash's wonderfully designed website, which is essentially a pie chart, it shows it as 10.53, but still way up on the last time I checked it. What does
[00:44:15] Unknown:
this mean for Whirlpool transactions? Because is he not then gonna try and call them spam?
[00:44:26] Unknown:
Yeah. So by default, Bitcoin knots nodes have a an opportune limit set at 40 bytes. And this is what? 80? Yeah. Bitcoin knots nodes won't relay transactions with opportune larger than that Mhmm. Which includes, like, PayNim notification transactions and, I believe, Whirlpool t x zeros as well. Mhmm. So they won't relay that. But at the current percentages, that means jack shit, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's still 90% of the Bitcoin core nodes more than enough to be able to successfully get CXOs relayed around the network. So it's still, like, completely insignificant in terms of impacting that side of things. Okay. But, you know, if it continues to rise steadily, it's a bit of an unknown really as to what the threshold would be where we'd have to have x amount of nots or x percentage of nots node for it to start causing disruptions, that side of things. Personally, I don't think we'll ever get into that sort of position. Mhmm.
I also think well, there's two things. Number one, not node runners can change this. So if they are running not because they don't like JPEGs, but they do like Whirlpool transactions, then they can alter their transaction filtering so that it can let those through. But, again, I just personally don't think we're ever gonna get into that sort of position.
[00:45:42] Unknown:
I don't either because it's more like, there's only so many podcast hosts and, like, influencers. But do you know what I mean? There's there is a level where it's like, oh, you could only possibly have that percentage to the network because most people who run Bitcoin and use Bitcoin don't have podcasts or are influencers.
[00:46:01] Unknown:
That's fair. Very tongue in cheek, but somewhat accurate as well. Yeah. So if one of these guys knew
[00:46:07] Unknown:
what Whirlpool was or why privacy mattered or any of that stuff, which is very unlikely. But if they did, what would they do? They would go in some settings, and they just change the limit to 80 or a 100 or so that they could include it? I'm not sure precisely what the data line would be called, but you'd go into the config, and there's a setting for off return data size. I think it might be data carrier size or something like that. Okay. And you can bump that up from the default in knots, I believe, is 40. Okay. Well, if you are that rare unicorn that actually uses Bitcoin but also likes knots and you want to make sure that you could relay these transactions, you can do that. I assume there's some guide or something for it.
[00:46:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm sure there is. If there is one, I'll find it. Put it in the show notes. Okay. Very good. Right. Do you wanna do boosts next or a couple of updates and releases?
[00:47:00] Unknown:
Let's do boosts.
[00:47:02] Unknown:
I'll kick it off with Jordan. 10,000 sats. I set up a family member with Envoy a few months ago, and it was the ideal, quote unquote, seedless experience. No need to write down seed phrases, which can disrupt the onboarding process. Just configure the automatic backups, and you're ready to go. If needed, they can easily access their seed phrase by navigating to the menu, selecting backups, and choosing view on voice seed to copy it securely for safekeeping. Thank you for your message, by the way, Jordan. That reads like I wrote it or the I paid Jordan to write it to demonstrate the points we were talking about on the last show. It does. But I didn't do that. I promise. I pinky promise. But it does perfectly demonstrate I think I used the term hybrid approach, didn't I, where we give the user choice. We gently push them down the easiest path where they have an automatic encrypted backup. To be clear, we're talking about a hot wallet here, not passport cold storage. As in when they learn and they get some more funds into the wallet, we'd be like, hey, you see Phrase there. Do you wanna back it up as well? So best of both worlds. So thank you for perfectly demonstrating that in a very eloquent way, Jordan. I can't believe you get a message so nice from Jordan.
Oh, I get many horrible ones in DMs as well. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. He's
[00:48:14] Unknown:
he verges on abusive. But thanks, Jordan. That's very, very nice message. Anonymous with three thousand three hundred and thirty three sats. Expat is Asian gay, not just gay. I assume that's expatriotic. I entered a name in my Podverse app just for him. Now it won't say Anon. Hope he is satisfied. Note from expatriotic. Fail harder bro. Still Anon.
[00:48:45] Unknown:
I have no idea what's going on there. I love that there's just two nims having an argument in the boosts. Yeah. Also, for anonymous, whoever you are, although I have a sneaking suspicion, can you explain the difference between gay and Asian gay? Maybe that make that your next boost. Well, Asian gays are usually just a little bit shorter. Okay. Fair enough. Usually. I'd be disappointed if that's the only difference, though. Let us know. Anonymous. And they've normally got straighter darker hair as well. Silky hair. This is where we need John to do one of his voices.
[00:49:14] Unknown:
Have a one.
[00:49:18] Unknown:
You know, they approached us trying to sponsor the show. Oh, I thought you were gonna say they approached us to say stop taking the piss out of us. No. They love it. They absolutely love it. Really? Yeah. And you didn't have them on the show because
[00:49:30] Unknown:
Well, we'll get to it. We'll get there eventually. Okay. It's still back and forth. We've got translators involved and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, they Oh, what the fuck? I've literally got John calling me. Let's pipe him through onto the show. Have you got the the technical chops to do that? John, we're live, me and Q at the moment. He said, oh, well, hell. Alright. Any message for, Q or the listeners? He loves that sweet little robot boy of his. I love you too, dad. He said, I love you too, dad.
[00:50:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Alright. Love you, dad. That's as raw as it gets.
[00:50:06] Unknown:
He said, you guys are good kids. I love you boys. I wish I could have piped that through. Yeah. That would have been great. Anyway, love you too, John. I'm too dumb for that sort of stuff. Back to the show. Back to the show. Bitcoin Derby,
[00:50:22] Unknown:
0.032. Bitcoin Derby, Come back in July after the great defeat of Nazis and communists. This month, we discuss running Tails OS as well as an other great software. Saturday, July, 3PM, yield dolphin d e one three D l. Anyone is welcome. Hashtag free samurai. Love that. I'm glad they mentioned Tails OS because I had a little light bulb moment, when I was working a few weeks ago. Oh, yeah. And I said to the clever people at Foundation, the ones that do all of the technical stuff. Yeah. I said, I want to live in a world where I can run Tails OS on my Passport Prime. Can you make that happen for me? Oh. And they said, maybe.
[00:51:15] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:51:15] Unknown:
Well, that would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it? Yeah. That would be. Just have a little Tails OS app that turns it into a bootable kind of image on a USB, essentially. Plug it into your computer. Hey, presto. You've got your tails. I like it. Okay. Yeah. Let's see. Unfortunately, if there's one thing I've learned in my four years at Foundation, it's that you'll never get the devs to say, yeah, a definite yes to anything straight away. Yeah. Maybe.
[00:51:41] Unknown:
Maybe.
[00:51:43] Unknown:
You're a good boy. Richard Grieser,
[00:51:45] Unknown:
speaking of good boys, sent 1,050 sats. I know he streamed 1,050
[00:51:52] Unknown:
sats. Yeah. We got lots of streamers this week. Oh, it's really way more streamers than we usually get. John with 690, Plaid two, Polymath, 640, We All Eat, 500, Turkey, 500 sats, Bob the Cow, that's a new name to me.
[00:52:09] Unknown:
Bob the cow?
[00:52:10] Unknown:
500 sats. They also boosted and said, I get a bone not thinking about digital privacy. Don't be all, mate.
[00:52:17] Unknown:
Riavand strokes with 500 sats. Is the Bolt 12 payments in Phoenix now not new also?
[00:52:27] Unknown:
Just noticed it with this new update mentioned. Been there for at least six months or so, I'd say. Okay. Yeah. K. The problem with it is it's just not that prevalent or spoken about at the moment because Phoenix is like the only mobile wallet with Vault 12, I think. I'm I wish I hadn't said that now because there's gonna be loads of people in the comments saying, no. You can do it here. It's one of the only really popular or widely used ones with it. So it's like Phoenix to Phoenix only.
[00:52:53] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:52:54] Unknown:
You can, I believe, use it in ZooSport? The prerequisite there is that you have your own core lightning node, and not many people run those. So everybody else is on l and d, which doesn't speak Boltz well. So that's why it isn't as hyped as it should be in my opinion. Okay. Base potato
[00:53:09] Unknown:
also streamed 460 sats. War time, 333 sats with a beer. A I b l e with 200 sats. Seedless can only be safer if the safety is protecting you from losing your own words. Keep up the great work, gentlemen. So you're just gonna be safe. Like a little riddle, that one, isn't it? Yeah. It's like one of those she sells seashells on the seashore.
[00:53:35] Unknown:
Yes. Like, I'm black. I'm white. I'm yellow. I'm I glow in the wind. What am I? Newspaper
[00:53:40] Unknown:
that's got piss on it. That's the yellow bit. I don't know. I just made those things up. So yeah. You're right. Yes. Because there's that one that's, what's black and white and red all over. That's a newspaper.
[00:53:51] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think Abel's right in what he says, though. But, again, it comes back to my point of you can only achieve that sort of thing by doing something fancy like multisig or Shamir or something like that. Because otherwise. But, yes, I I think I tend to agree, Abel. Okay.
[00:54:08] Unknown:
Yo Jimble streamed 80 sats. Jesus is King streamed 70 sats. VmVD, 60 sats streamed. Gearhead zero six two one, 60 sat streamed, and cyborg 30 sat streamed. Was that Karen? Gear head o six two one. Probably. Yeah. I mean, that would fit, wouldn't it? You fucking juicer.
[00:54:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Love to see all the streamers coming through. Obviously, very, very thankful for all the boosters as well. But, yes. Cool to see a nice mix. It is nice. It is nice. One thing I do think, though, and I'm gonna be corrected on this, I'm sure, by Jordan.
[00:54:50] Unknown:
I don't think streamed sets go towards pushing us up in the rankings Oh. Which gives us less exposure. So, like, when we're number one, number two, number three, number four, like, you're up there and people sort of see us. I don't think fountain counts. I don't know why, but I don't think they count streamed sats towards that, which is a bit gay. Okay. Well, Oscar, if you're listening, please confirm or deny. Yeah. Let me know. I might be completely wrong, but I think that's the case. If that is the case, it'd be cool if that was changed because all these lovely people streaming sats and showing support, it'd be nice for them to be counted towards her. Absolutely.
[00:55:30] Unknown:
Okay. Just a couple of updates and releases worth mentioning this time around, mate. The god tier level software, Zeus version 0.11, main release has been released. This is not one of the 3,000 release candidates that they do. This is the main release, so it's ready for the prime time. Okay. This release features experimental Cashew e cash support.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
Good.
[00:55:55] Unknown:
What? That wasn't me. That was one of the kids in the background that I know. Stop saying that. So, yes, the controversial one amongst our circles, I guess, would be that there's an addition of Cashew here so that you can do custodial stuff in Zeus. I will say or, you know, I've been very clear about my thoughts on Casu and custodial systems. The only plus point I give the guys here is in terms of their implementation here. Like, the warnings are are very stark. They're very clear. They even have, like, nice animations where it get redder and redder the more you've got in an IOU account. Okay. I'm quoting here. Cashew is part of our new graduated wallet system, which seems to be all the rage at the moment. New users are able to get set up quickly without having to learn about channel capacities or having to purchase a channel from the LSP.
They can have their first magical moments with lightning, well, in echo lightning in my opinion, and even get a lightning address. Then as economic self custody becomes viable, e g, you know, they've got more than like a couple of sats, their zoo sats will prompt them to upgrade with a lightning channel of their own and provide them with educational material. So I do take my hat off to them there. Like, although we're quick to shit on Cashew and custodial shit, there is a void being filled where if you wanna receive a 100 sats, you just can't do that in non custodial Lightning because channels etcetera.
But they are managing the risk to the user as best they can by as soon as it's economically viable saying, hey. By the way, you've still got IOUs. Do you wanna open a channel so that you can actually self custody them? So I commend them for that. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. I feel like Evan's always been pretty,
[00:57:35] Unknown:
open and honest about trade offs and things. Like, he's you know, I've been whinging about lightning a lot. I was saying to, Black Coffee a couple of days ago. I was like, I'm having a lot more success with lightning recently than I was previously.
[00:57:49] Unknown:
Yep.
[00:57:50] Unknown:
Much more of my payments are actually going through, which is really nice. It's like what you hope for out of a payment. And I thought I'd quite like to cover some of the lightning stuff again soon. And then I was like, who's not fucking annoying and chilly and, like, doesn't accept that there are problems?
[00:58:10] Unknown:
I thought of Evan. I thought I should probably get Evan back on soon and and chat about some lightning stuff. Absolutely. Would love to hear it. Evan is the man. Zeus is god tier software. So, yeah, we'd love to get an update from him. It's been a while. Should we have a little threesome or something like that? Yeah. I mean, I'm game. I'm game. Okay. Well, Evan, if you're listening, come join us. Just to cap off this update, they've also got swaps now as well within Zeus. So Zeus swap service allows users to swap on chain funds for lightning funds and vice versa without having to open or close channels. This service leverages submarine swaps that can be performed without custody or counterparty risk. Very cool. And I believe on the back end, this is using Bolts, which is a long standing swap service. Yes. It is. It's using Bolts.
But pretty cool that you can do that. I like Bolts. Yeah. I I've used it a fair amount. Yeah. You can use that within the app, which is very cool. So if you wanna go from on chain to Lightning and vice versa, then you can do that as well. Very nice. Oh, ah, very cool as well. You can also in the Zeus app, users have the option of selecting Zeus swaps, Boltz, or any Boltz based swap services as the provider. So it's not just that you're locked down to a specific swap service. You can go in there and choose which one you wanna use at any time. Nice. That's pretty cool. And then finally, new Lightning address types.
Zeus Pay is expanding to three different address types in Zeus fee 0.11. So we covered Zeus Pay last time. So if you're wondering what that is, then go back and listen. But we've got Casio addresses, Zapplocker addresses. So Casio addresses allow you to pick your mint and start receiving Zapp straight away. Reminder, that's an IOU. You're not in self custody. Zaplocker addresses are the first ever self custodial Lightning addresses for mobile, and these were debuted back in Zeus version 0.8. And you can also use Nostra Wallet Connect addresses for remote node runners as well. So once again, continuing to be like the Swiss army knife type wallet of the Lightning Network. I'm here for it. Very good. And then final piece of news, mate, before we round it out is the boys and girls over at Bitbox released a new or updated device in Prague last weekend. Oh, yeah. The Bitbox o two Nova. Have a look. A new hardware wallet for Bitcoin. So the highlights here, one of which I found very strange, is that the new one is now compatible with iOS. Although I had zero understanding that the old one wasn't compatible with iOS. So Mhmm. I guess they've opened themselves into a pretty big market there. And this one's also got encrypted Bluetooth as well. Haven't read the technical details of that, but looking at the headlines, it seems like it's kind of like an encrypted Bluetooth version, like similar to, Quantum Link that we've got in the upcoming Passport Prime as well. Okay. The form factor seems almost identical to the older device. So USB stick style design with the touch buttons on the top, and a pretty small screen.
[01:01:02] Unknown:
And you can get this in midnight black or polar white. Well, a lot of people whinged about the usability of it because it's, like, quite small and you've got, like, a little scrolly bit at the bottom, which is all touchscreen. I have to say, I didn't mind it. I got sent one by them ages ago just to test and have a play around, and it's one of the less shitty ones that I've used. So I don't mind them. I think they're alright. I think for the price point and if someone wants, like, a smaller device for some reason or
[01:01:32] Unknown:
whatever. I don't think they're bad. It's one of the few I've actually not tried. Never even held one, so can't pass any comment. Really? Mhmm. Yeah. They're not too bad. I'd advise that over a lot of the other shit that you see people using. Yeah. Good team behind them as well. They don't seem to get involved in any drama. They just No. You know, quietly ship, and they've been around for a long time. Yeah. Cool. Any other bits to cover? I think we've got to the end of my listening. Yeah. That was a fun one. Enjoyed diving into the Whirlpool stuff. That was obviously the standout piece of news from this show. I'm looking forward to covering any further developments on that front. As always, just steer your own research, tread carefully, enjoy diving into the pool. Yeah. Definitely. Well, thank you very much to the Ashigaru team for doing this massive, massive step. Means a lot. Very excited about it. We'll see what all the fighting ends up being, but we'll still cover that. As always,
[01:02:25] Unknown:
hashtag
[01:02:25] Unknown:
free samurai. Free samurai.
Introduction to The Bitcoin Brief
Catching Up and Current Events
Bitcoin Privacy and Security Tools
Whirlpool's Return and Privacy Concerns
Dark Net Market Seizure and Bitcoin Knots
Listener Boosts and Feedback
Updates on Zeus and Bitbox
