Ungovernable Misfits

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In this inaugural episode of Freedom Tech Friday, the Max, QnA and Seth celebrate the launch of their live show, which will air every Friday at 9 AM Eastern for the US audience and 2 PM GMT for the UK audience. 

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Thank you Cake Wallet for sponsoring the show!

[00:00:00] Unknown:

That just had a count in thing.  

[00:00:03] Unknown:

Our sync. I gotta fix up sync.   Okay. L l l tandem recording.  

[00:00:09] Unknown:

We're live on the,   which is nice.  

[00:00:12] Unknown:

Wow.  

[00:00:13] Unknown:

We're live on the Twitters.  

[00:00:17] Unknown:

Let me have a little live on the YouTubes?  

[00:00:19] Unknown:

I don't see it on YouTube.  

[00:00:22] Unknown:

I see us live on YouTubes. I make that three for three, gentlemen. It's there.  

[00:00:26] Unknown:

Very nice.   Well done, mate.  

[00:00:30] Unknown:

This is exciting, isn't it? That's pretty It's very exciting.   Oh, well, I've got our first comment. We've got our first comment as well straight through restream. That's also working. Hello, vib vibrant subtlety and hello, John.  

[00:00:46] Unknown:

The gang's all together.  

[00:00:48] Unknown:

Look at this.   Don't fuck this up.  

[00:00:51] Unknown:

Who said that?  

[00:00:53] Unknown:

That was John.  

[00:00:54] Unknown:

Of course, it was. Let me just see on my little live thing. How can you see the comments? Where's that coming to? I'm just watching on YouTube to see them. Yeah. It's coming through on the right hand side.   I haven't got enough screen for that.   This is very good. Well, should we,   talk about why we're here a little bit?  

[00:01:15] Unknown:

I I think. Should we should we give you the name of the show first and say hello to everyone?  

[00:01:20] Unknown:

Yeah.   So welcome to   Freedom Tech Friday.   This is gonna run every Friday   at 9AM for the Yanks and 2PM for the Brits,   and   it's gonna be a show dedicated to   anything Freedom Tech related.   It's been,   I don't know,   six months to a year in the making with,   everyone   trying to do their bit and especially   q and Jordan   trying to get all of this live stream stuff working   just relentlessly   in our own little, back channels. Just   testing, restream, testing,   OBS, and all this different stuff to try and get it working and,   Crown doing the artwork.   And, yeah, there's been a lot of a lot of work that's gone into this, but very excited to do it and and, like, have a proper show that's   getting the audience involved and,   questions in for anything freedom free freedom   tech related.  



[00:02:27] Unknown:

Yeah. I I I think, the amount of work Jordan's put into this, shouldn't go unmentioned.   We literally wouldn't be here if it wasn't for all of his testing and basically   giving me all of the stuff in OBS to get us up and running. So, thank you, sir Jordan. You're absolute legend. Yeah.  

[00:02:43] Unknown:

Yeah. You are a very annoying bloke, but we really genuinely wouldn't be here without him. It's, like, I was looking from afar, and, like, I struggle with a lot of the technical stuff as people know, but this was fucking like I'm I'm very rarely see you flustered   and, like, struggling with tech, but there were some times where I've had to send a little message in, like, you alright, mate?   You okay? This is getting on top of you.  

[00:03:09] Unknown:

If a robot's having a bad day with technology, you know, it's you don't say it's cool. It's really bad. Kind of his thing. You know? Yeah.  

[00:03:17] Unknown:

It's kinda what you do.  

[00:03:20] Unknown:

Yeah. You're right there. But, I couldn't have done it that, Jordan. So, yeah, I just wanted to give him a shout out because, he he is a the the background legend of the ungovernable crew. So,   hope you're well, mate. And, hello to Bitcoin Derby or Derby in the chat and BTC wrestle. Yeah. It's nice to see some people flowing through there. Mister Crown's here as well. Look at this. Now it's a party. Oi. Oi.  

[00:03:40] Unknown:

Yeah. Thank you to mister Crown for this beautiful artwork and,   the video in the bottom right corner.   This is all mister Crown's doing   as always. Just keeping things looking fresh to death.  

[00:03:53] Unknown:

Are you the cassette tape?  

[00:03:55] Unknown:

I'm the cassette tape. I actually made that, but It's like how old you are. Was  

[00:03:59] Unknown:

that a common  

[00:04:01] Unknown:

Yeah. Kind of like how old I am, how non tech savvy I am. That's kind of the level at which I still understood technology   cassette tapes. So just hearkening back to the good old days.  

[00:04:13] Unknown:

Hey, man. Those were high-tech when you were like 40 or 50 years old. So  

[00:04:17] Unknown:

yeah. Do you remember mini disc? I remember,   being quite excited about mini disc. Tiny things. Yeah. We're like disc trays used to have the inside mini one. Yes. And then the one with the full. Oh, man. Another throwback. Yeah. They lasted for, like, a year. They were, like, gonna be the next big thing. And then no one no one cared. And then m p three came out and everyone's like, fuck this shit.  

[00:04:38] Unknown:

Is this Freedom Tech? I think I was just about to say, yeah. A mini disc class than Freedom Tech.  

[00:04:45] Unknown:

Hopefully, Freedom Tech lasts longer than MiniDiscs, though. But  

[00:04:48] Unknown:

Well, I tell you one thing is that you actually own all of your own music back then. Like, I genuinely don't own any music now. Like, I'm too dumb to do   the, like, new version of LimeWire or   Pirate Bay or any of that kind of stuff.   I used to have all my own music on, like, CDs and discs and stuff.   And now I'm afraid to say, like, it's Spotify.   And, like, if if I don't pay my subscription, I have no music anymore.   So that's not very free.  

[00:05:18] Unknown:

It's like the one streaming service that actually makes sense, though. Like It is the same way. I use Apple Music. They have a little bit better privacy than the others, and there's some good Oh, do open source clients as well. So that's what I lean on. But it is like all the other streaming services are pretty garbage, but streaming music is just so worth it at this point. It's quite good, isn't it? Yeah.  

[00:05:37] Unknown:

We we digressed a little bit there just from the start of the show. Didn't we? Yeah. Straight away. Straight in. Hey. It's a live stream. It's a live stream. It's half the point. That's true. That's true. So, Max,   what what the hell are we doing here?  

[00:05:49] Unknown:

Yeah. So   as we were growing out ungovernable misfits,   we sort of kept spinning off little things. Like,   we'd have the mesh to Dell and then we'd have the plug minor mafia. And we have all these questions and,   different talking points that go off in our different chat rooms and in the back channels and   DMS and all the other places.   We obviously have other shows that cater to some of the more technical stuff.   But   we decided that a live show where   any of the ungoverned pools can jump in   and participate and be part of this thing,   I kinda felt like it was missing. There was nothing that I was tuning into that was live   that was covering the sort of stuff that I really wanted to talk about, the Freedom Tech stuff, you know, not all of the   garbage that I see on Twitter, not all of the finance bro chat,   just like,   how do you use this stuff and create more freedom for yourself and your family? And,   obviously, there's something I wanted to cover, but   no fuck all about most of it. And, luckily, I have two pretty smart friends who, I'm already doing shows with, and it just made a lot of sense   to have a weekly catch up with all the ungovernable misfits and and YouTube brain boxes.  



[00:07:22] Unknown:

Well, that is exciting. Yeah. A a live show is something I've I've wanted to do for quite some time, and it's just difficult. It's been quite difficult to to pin us all down to a a time that works with, you know, Matt living in Antarctica and   Seth living somewhere in The USA and me, obviously, being in in Cookeville in in The UK, it's it's difficult to get everybody together at the same time.   But,   I'm very, very happy to to see that we we kind of we we managed to lock it down. And,   just to be clear, we're gonna be here every Friday,   9AM eastern, 2PM   GMT,   to talk about the latest and greatest in FreedomTech.  

The it's gonna be quite wide ranging as you've already seen where we quickly digressed into talking about MiniDisc somehow.   But,   the the original plan is gonna be that we kinda talk about, you know, anything,   news items that are, you know, related to to to Freedom Tech and   the the sort of surrounding technologies that, you know, all three of us are have a deep passion about.   And then the other huge part of the show, and I can't stress this enough, is the audience participation.   Yeah. We're we're streaming on Twitter. We're streaming on Nosta. We're streaming on YouTube.   You can drop comments on all three of those places. It will feed through into our live chat,   the detection of Nosta, which which doesn't feed through automatically. Although, I am watching it and hello to Observer. I did see a comment. Nice to have you along.  

And, basically, yeah, we we want your questions. We want your topic. We wanna know what you're interested in with with regards to FreedomTech.   If you wanna hear us riff on, you know, the latest and greatest in silent payments or full chain membership proofs in Monero or, you know, the latest password manager hack or something like that, anything that's kind of loosely Freedom Tech related is fair game. If you wanna hear us talk about it, please do get involved, and you can also get involved with, XMR chats as well,   if you wanted to to send some, some XMR to support the show as well. I think that's a good summary.  



[00:09:24] Unknown:

I think that's a very good summary. And, yeah, I just wanted to stress again that the reason we're doing this, the biggest reason is to get the participation from the audience. And,   that's what makes our shows like, that's my favorite bit. Generally, when we're doing the pods is the boost and the XMR chats and the questions, and this just takes it another step up.  

[00:09:46] Unknown:

Yeah. Honestly, it's my favorite part of, like, anything like this, It's getting to answer questions and chat with the audience. Like, anytime I get to do presentations or anything like that, the whole point really is is the audience participation. So I'm really excited for that. I think a lot of, like, a lot of this too. Like, I love what Matt's done with Citadel dispatch.   I think we can do a lot of similar things, but in a a little bit more tight package. He does like his, three or four hour recordings. But Oh, yeah. We didn't similar, topics.  

[00:10:14] Unknown:

We didn't mention that part. It is a one hour hard stop. Like, it will cut out one hour, so,   it won't be long ones.  

[00:10:25] Unknown:

I've just seen j j a I m three in the chat said the sound is very low. I'm just gonna crank up the levels a little bit. Hopefully, it doesn't destroy the stream. So let me know if that is any better now, mister j a I m three. Let's just do a.  

[00:10:39] Unknown:

That's a test. How did that come through Bitcoin Derby?  

[00:10:44] Unknown:

I, I've got or already, we've had loads of, audience participation ahead of the show. Obviously, we we asked for some questions,   on all of the channels where we've been trying to pump the numbers this week leading up to to our inaugural show.   And I had one over on Nosta that,   apologies, guys. I'm gonna drop this one on you. It isn't on the list that I supplied ahead of time, but I think Oh, here we go. Wow. I feel like it's a perfect jumping off point to set the scene. Right? And this isn't kind of gonna be a gotcha.   The question is,   how would you guys   define FreedomTech?  

Be and this comes from Calum on Nosta. I think it's a great question and a perfect way to kind   of kick things off and to set the scene as to what do you think FreedomTech is? Because, you know, it's a word words can be interpreted in different ways. So I'm keen to know what you guys and how you interpret them and and what how would you quickly define FreedomTech?  

[00:11:39] Unknown:

Can I try first?  

[00:11:41] Unknown:

Let's hear it.  

[00:11:43] Unknown:

I would define it as any technology   that allows you or your family more freedom   and control,   over your life in any way, whether that is,   making payments   or whether it's three d printing something so that you can make your own parts.   I think it's anything where you take control away from others,   and bring that control to yourself. That's how I would define that.  

[00:12:14] Unknown:

Yeah. I think I think that that really nails, like, the general category. I think it's, like to me, Freedom Tech is pushing back on how broken technology has become, where ultimately a lot of the technology that we   either use by choice or are forced to use today is built to surveil, built to control, built to monetize   us, to monetize our our eyeballs, to monetize our clicks.   And FreedomTech is anything that that breaks that paradigm and   allows us to use technology for our own benefit   and not necessarily someone else's benefit. But, ultimately, like you mentioned, like, anything that provides more human freedom   is key. I I think when we're talking about, like, software that,   basically always requires something being free and open source, not just source viewable,   but something that that ultimately gives you the the end user freedom to do whatever you want with the software itself.  

But when it comes to hardware and a lot of other things, it really just depends on on how locked in or hopefully   unlocked it is for you to be able to do whatever you need to to expand human freedom, to help you and your family flourish. That's ultimately what Freedom Tech does. And that can come in tons and tons of different shapes and sizes. It's not like this   black and white thing, I think, but I think that's that's pretty much how I would define it as well. I think you nailed it, Max.  

[00:13:30] Unknown:

Yeah. I think I think both of you kind of obviously took the words out of my mouth. We're kinda aligned here. Anything that allows you to kind   of opt out and and kind of,   free yourself from the the increasing amounts of surveillance,   oppression,   you know, all of that sort of stuff.   Anything that you know, a piece of technology that just enables you to kind of be able to express yourself and live that live your life a little bit more free than,   than you would otherwise have been able to do so. So, Calum, thank you for your question. I I hope that,   is satisfying. If you are listening to this, by the way, please let us know your,   your Definition. Of the yeah. Definition. Thank you, Max. Your definition of that in the chat as well because,   I would keep be keen to hear what, what you think on that one as well.  

I I am aware, by the way, that the XMR chat, is not   open, or not updating. I'm trying to work on that in the background as well as well as answer questions and read questions out. So bear with me, guys. I'm new to all the streaming stuff. I'm getting there.   Max, why don't you pick another question from the list and pose it to, pose it to to Seth and myself?  

[00:14:43] Unknown:

Let's have a look.   Okay. A question from my two sets   on Twitter. I refuse to call it x.   Okay.   Say a Bitcoiner   gets a fresh start nine node.   What are the first few things they should do or install   and learn for ultimate freedom,   privacy, and sovereignty outside of the obvious ones, perhaps?   Ultimate sovereign tech stack, please.   Good question.   The A lot of people are using this as well, so it's a perfect question.  

[00:15:29] Unknown:

This is the the perfect type of question for this type of show, really, where somebody, you know, wants to know about,   you know, some some actionable kind of advice and our thoughts on on things. Because I I'd imagine we're all gonna have fairly similar answers to this, but there might be some, different kind of ways of implementing that or different takes on some of the technology. So, I mean, I I can kick off. I also run a start nine node. I run it on a a cheap piece of,   mini desktop.   I think the whole setup probably cost me, like, £300, which is, like, 350, $360.   Built it myself,   in terms of custom hardware and then just flashed the Start nine software onto there, which took   no word of a lie, probably   fifteen minutes.  

And the proof and the pudding as to how easy that is is even Max has done this as well, and I'm sure he'll go into this.  

[00:16:21] Unknown:

Even Max?  

[00:16:22] Unknown:

Max is my if   if Max can pull off a piece of FreedomTech,   then that means anybody listening to this, or It's ready for the world. On the planet. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.   It's it's it's ready.   So what would what would I install,   if I was jumping on a start night straight away? Well, obviously, a Bitcoin node.   I would then also install an election server on top of that. The reason for the election server would be to provide a sort of fast indexer.   And the reason that you might want one of those is so that when you're importing any wallets,   having an index allows you to import that and pull up the history of each of those wallets   much, much quicker than if you were just querying   the the kind of underlying Bitcoin   core node underneath, which is absolutely possible, but it just takes a lot longer because the databases   within that piece of software are not quite as optimized.  

Then here's where I might diverge from from Max and from Seth is that my next piece of software would be a lightning node.   I actually run both   core lightning and LND just because I'm a bit of a turbo nerd, I guess, and I just I just like to to play around with those sorts of things. Yeah.   I do love paint. Yeah. Yeah. And and, admittedly, that probably shouldn't be the recommendation for most people when they're getting started. Just just master the on chain stuff with Bitcoin Core and with, an Electrum server.   And then I'd probably look at some other stuff like,   locally hosting,   a Bitwarden password manager. I think it's the the the open source one is called VaultWarden,   where I can, you know, obviously, host all of my own passwords on my own hardware such that whilst I do still use Bitward nor Proton Pass, and that is kind of an encrypted cloud service that I pay for.  

I also have a kind of backup at home where I'm only trusting my hardware such that, you know, if I was ever deplatformed from Bitward nor Proton Pass for for whatever reason,   then I, you know, I'm not shit out of luck, and I don't lose access to all my my passwords.   And there's loads more I could talk about, but I'm gonna stop there and let the guys chime in with some of the stuff that they probably install.  

[00:18:33] Unknown:

Seth, you wanna say some smart stuff, and then I'll come in with this stupid stuff afterwards.  

[00:18:37] Unknown:

Sure. I'll get the I'll get the smart stuff out of the way.   Yeah. I mean, I definitely would diverge a bit from q and a. I know that I've talked with other people about this, but,   writing a running a lightning note is definitely possible, but   more painful than worth it, I think, for most people.   Vault Orden as well. I think, like, this is a recognition I've generally made is I prefer having a password manager where I'm not the sole   party responsible for the data there. Like, the main reason I like something like Proton Pass or a bit more than that I pay for is it's ended and encrypted. It's encrypted client side. All the software is open source, so we we can know that it's doing what it's it says it's supposed to be doing.   But then   if   if I screw up my start nine and I only had that for my passwords, I am screwed. Like, that's a really big problem, unless I'm also properly backing that up somewhere else.  

Whereas if, like, Bitwarden or Proton deplatform me, the really nice thing with how that software works is you're caching everything locally.   So any device that has been connected,   you'd have the last cache of when you last logged in on that app. So, like, let's say, Bitward and the platforms me or   something happens to my account. Maybe it's not like some malicious thing, but something happens to my account. I can just open the Bitward and client on my desktop or on my phone, and I'd have all of my passwords and stuff there. I could export them out to something else.   They're not gone instantly. They'd be on all the clients. Technically, that would be true of using Vault Orton as well. If, like, you killed your server, as long as you had one client that had those, you could still recover them.  

But I just I prefer to have a third party that's responsible for the data there, knowing that they can't access or change any of that data. And that's the power of the intent encryption and the the open source   software. So I I definitely would lean towards not self hosting that, but it is fantastic to have as an option, especially if you have a very specific threat model.   Beyond that, I think the two things I would add on to what q and a mentioned.   The first one, if you're already running your Bitcoin your own Bitcoin node, you really should run the mempool   blockchain explorer Oh, yeah. Mempool.space.  

It's a really easy addition. It's part of the start by marketplace.   And the the biggest reason for me is that,   Blockchain Explorer actually can reveal a lot of data about you. When you're searching for a specific DX ID, when you're coming from a specific IP, let's say you're maybe you're not using VPN or Tor, that that can reveal a lot if you're going to, like, mempool.space itself. Now, like, I know the guys at mempool dot space, they're fantastic. But, obviously, they could still be pressured to log or something like that. Whereas if you're running your own mempool explorer, you can do all that locally. You're not trusting a third party. It's it's really, really powerful. So I would definitely recommend that. Yeah. Like, stupid, stupid easy. Yeah. So I think that's, like, a clear win there. And the nice thing is a lot of   a lot of Bitcoin wallets and software let you change the default,   Blockchain Explorer. So you can usually change it to your own memble. Space. Like, you can do this in Sparrow. You can do this in Envoy. You can do this in Bisc. There's a lot of places where you can actually just change it to use your own instead. So whenever you click a link to go out to an explorer, it's actually taking you to your instance instead of to mempool. Space, which is really, really cool.  

And then the last one I'll say is   an option and one that is not for everybody as well is running Nextcloud   at home.   So if you have a need for, like, simple note taking, simple document editing,   simple file backup,   photo backup, especially, is what it's really good for. Nextcloud can be a really good option. Now I will caveat with it's not perfect,   and it's not, just drop in replacement for something like Google Docs or Notion or some other things. But it is a really good way to have the ability to do a lot of those things in one neat package. So it's another good one that I'd recommend people kind of install, play around with, see if it's a good fit for you, but don't feel like you have to lock in to any of these things.  

[00:22:24] Unknown:

Yeah. Good point. The only thing that worries me with stuff like that,   is the backup process with start nine.   Like,   I'm still not comfortable enough   to start moving,   like, all my photos and Yeah. Like, family stuff on there. I'm like, you know, you talk talk about things that are important to back up and, yeah, your twelve and twenty four words are very important, but family photos, you lose those, you'd be   pretty devastated. And so   I I'm just not comfortable enough moving that kind of stuff   yet.   But maybe there gets a point where is it raid or whatever it's called? Where it's like, does it to multiple different   things that, like, maybe and and I think,   Matt Hill, when he was on maybe a year ago, he was talking about that you could run multiple   start nines,   and they would all back up simultaneously   on different,   on different hardware. So, like, if one went down and the backup didn't work, you have another one running elsewhere,   things like that. I I don't think that's happened yet, but,   that's the type of thing where there's, like, a level of redundancy there where I'd be comfortable,   but not yet.  



[00:23:36] Unknown:

Yeah. And that's, like, one thing that you can do if you're a little more advanced is you can run what's called network attached storage, a NAS, n a s,   where it has RAID. Like, I have one that I run at my house, has five disks, has,   two essentially, two redundant disks. So I can lose two disks out of the five and still have all the data. And you can point your   start nine or your own other server, something like that.   Add it to use it for storage for specific things.   So, like, that's what I've done in the past is, like, all my all my photos, my next cloud data, all of that is actually living online as it's not living on   my server. Now I'm not technically running start nine. I I do everything myself. Again, just for max pain, I really should be using something like the start nine at this point. But But I do have some custom stuff that's not in the, like, not in the marketplace that is a little trickier if you run something like start nine to run. But that's another option. So that way, you have a much, much more dependable   storage service that you're essentially self like, hosting yourself. The the problem still remains though, like, no matter how good your redundancy on that one device is, if your house burns down, like, it it doesn't matter that you had five disk because all five disks are are crispy. So you then you still need some of the backup service. Now it does get pretty hairy. Like, it it you gotta figure out your specific threat model, what's most valuable to you. And, thankfully, there are really good options for you to self host, and there's really good options for you to not self host, especially with things like photo   backup. I'm using ProtonDrive now because they have really good photo backup,   across their mobile apps at this point.  

And I have tons of storage there. So, like, I use that now. I switched to that from my next cloud. There's also n t e n t e, which is another similar service that's, like, specifically built around   photo backup and a Google Photos like experience, but it's open source and and and end to end encrypted. So it's all about choice all about choice. And that's a critical piece of FreedomTech is you should have the option and ability to move around and try different things and find what works best for you.  

[00:25:33] Unknown:

I would just add,   Dojo   as an option.   A lot of work has has gone into that,   for start nine.   And I think also,   a Monero node is an option if you could   get it working, but I've had some issues.   But, you know, nothing nothing new there. And then,   the new Whirlpool terminal,   if I don't know how far along that is, but it's definitely talked about slash being worked on, I think,   to have that on start nine as well. So there are three things where   if I think about   Freedom Tech and using   my money   in a proper and private way, they would be three very, very useful tools.  

[00:26:22] Unknown:

Yeah. Cosign   pretty much everything you guys had just said. Very excited to see all the Dojo stuff and the Whirlpool stuff, making its way into Start Line as well. And I'm a huge, huge proponent of,   the the Proton ecosystem. I'm a very happy paying customer. And like I said, with the the automatic photos backup,   it's the perfect complement to doing all of the more fancy stuff where you're hosting it locally where, as you both correctly said, like, that shit can go wrong very, very quickly. And the thought of having my kids' photos only backed up there scares living daylights out of me. So knowing that I have an automatic and encrypted cloud backup from a reputable company for, if I'm honest, not a lot of money,   gives me a lot of peace of mind. So, yeah, for   my documents and photos, I think Pro and Drive is excellent.  

We've, we've had a live question in the chat, gentlemen,   from Clem Fandango,   hashtag free samurai.   They ask, where are you guys on your three d printing journey? I want I often hear   you talk about it being a great sovereign tool, but I'm curious if any of you have made the plunge and how you've been using it.   Well well, I'll start with that one. I've had a three d printer for probably   eighteen months or two years. I've got nothing fancy. I think it's a Creality   s three pro or s one pro or something like that.   The I think you're right. They can be a very, very powerful tool.  

I I took a typical journey that most people do when they got a three d printer, and that's I went onto Thingiverse and printed all of the useful shit I could get my hands on useless shit I could get my hands on, should I say,   to the point where my office was just littered with need, you know, completely useless plastic gadgets, just because I could kind of print them out with out of thin air.   The the most frustrating part of the journey for me is that once I got over that initial kind of hype of, you know, I can make things out of essentially nothing in my office,   I quickly hit a brick wall where   my kind of CAD design skills, which are nonexistent by the way, were the were what held me back. So I'm at the point now where if I can't find an SDL file that is ready to go, that is, you know, suitable for my printer that will fit within the the three dimension,   you know, scope of my printer, if it ain't there ready to download, throw onto an SD card, and put into my printer and press go, then I'm stuck.  

And I think that's probably   the most powerful part of this is not only do you need the printer, but you need the kind of the the skill set to be able to, you know, produce something from scratch in a three d rendering. Well, that's probably not the right term, but in a piece of software that is able to spit out STL so that that because that's the the piece that kind of unlocks   your ability to kind of do anything within the constraints of that three d printer. So it's something that I'd like to work on in the future to, you know, really kind of spread my wings with it. But, again, it's just, you know, we're all human. We've all got families and jobs and busy lives, and it's just one one of those things that I never kinda get around to. But definitely something that's kind of   on my radar to kind of improve on my skill set.  



[00:29:25] Unknown:

Yeah. Just like with most things, q and a and I are the same person, just on opposite sides of the pond.   Pretty much the same journey. I mean, like, it's it's a fantastic tool to have,   but it does strike me, like, after having one for about the same amount of time as q and essentially doing the same thing.   Like, it it ends up in a lot of the same places other freedom tech, where I think it comes down to either you have enough time to invest to actually be able to become self sovereign in, like, the whole pipeline. Because like you said, you really need to learn how to properly measure things,   how to properly design things, how to to convert those files in STLs. Like, it's not that complex now. There's really good software out there. So, So, like, I'm not gonna say that it's impossible, but   it's gonna take extra time for you to learn that. Where I really think, like, the   the rubber meets the road in the three d printing world is in this the same kind of uncle Jim model that fits in a lot of other things. Where, like, I have a really good friend who's   just very creative.  

He has a three d printer. He has just taught himself CAD from scratch. He's doing a ton of stuff in a makerspace near him.   And because of that, because of the time that he's been able to invest in that, he can essentially design and print anything or design anything I need and send me the STL file. So, like, that that kind of relationship is really cool. And the beautiful thing about three d printers and the Internet is if you have a three d printer and all of the members of your family do, if any one of you can design the files,   you can just send them to them, and they can print That's a good point. Out of thin air. Like, it doesn't need to be where, like, you as the one with a three d printer can do everything from scratch. But if you know somebody who can and you can work together, like, you can you can build just about anything. So I think a lot of it comes down to that of, like, I think it's becoming pretty essential to have a three d printer. Like, especially probably in the next few years will be pretty essential just so that you have the flexibility to be able to to make stuff.  

But then   those who have the time can learn that skill and sell that skill. Like, you should you should take Bitcoin or Minera or something for designing files for people. I think that'd be a really valuable service and one that I haven't seen in the community yet. Probably does exist,   but that kind of thing could be a a service that you you sell essentially. But it could also just be something where for friends and family, you kinda you uncle Jim that. They have printers, but you help design the files. And I think that's where you really start to unlock the the power of three d printing.  

[00:31:45] Unknown:

Yeah. I was just about to say my thought for the last few weeks ever since I spoke to John about, like,   things that we'd rather run than a bit tax, and we had 99 things that we'd rather run. And one of them   was one of them was a three d printer.   And I was thinking literally the same thing. I was thinking,   it's it's too much work for me to   fuck around and learn all this stuff   for the possibility   that I'm gonna need to print some parts and do some stuff. I've got enough on my plate, but I might just buy one. And then if I need something, I'll just reach out to my good friend, Black Coffee, who's good at this sort of stuff and be like, mate, can you just help me with this? That's what I would probably do. It's a good thing to have one.   So if you're listening to that coffee, just know just know that that's what's coming. As soon as, like,   shit hits the fan and suddenly we can't get anything and all the supply chains are fucked,   and I desperately need a part, just know you're gonna get that phone call.  

Max, have you have you got one? Did you say I I missed a little No. I I I said I'm thinking I'm gonna order one, but rather than learn how to use it, just keep it in the box   and just wait until I actually need it, and then I'll take it out. Because otherwise, you learn all these skills.   I might lock myself away and and try and learn for, like, a couple of weeks. And then I won't use it for a year, and then I'll go to use it, and I'll have forgotten everything that I learned.   That's where I'm at.  

[00:33:19] Unknown:

Mindset of Culture right now, and I I'm I know I'd have to relearn how to do all the leveling and everything. But Yeah. So when you have that need,  

[00:33:28] Unknown:

it's like, fuck. I really need this thing, and I can't get hold of it. I need to print it. It's like, okay. Now that's the motivation to go and learn this stuff.   But at least I'd have one in case there's a problem. I like I just got one in in a cupboard somewhere.  

[00:33:43] Unknown:

Yeah. Definitely.   Okay. Cool. Well,   still loving all the comments coming in, guys. If you got any topics or questions for us, you can comment on Twitter, YouTube,   and on Nosta.   Speaking of Nosta,   Dad, aka John, has just zapped us 21,000   sats. But he's curious, Max. Where do they go? Are they going into your coffers?  

[00:34:02] Unknown:

21,000  

[00:34:03] Unknown:

sats. There you go.  

[00:34:06] Unknown:

They will be split,   10%   to free samurai,   10%   to fundashigaru,   10%   to Q,   10   to   John on anything he's on, 10%   to   Jordan, 10%   to Crown.  

[00:34:31] Unknown:

I think you're up to, like, a 130%.  

[00:34:33] Unknown:

No. I'm not. No. I'm not.   I think that's the splits.   I think that's all of them.  

[00:34:40] Unknown:

So so you send Max money and he doubles it and sends it out to other people. That's right. Yeah. I send that a 140%.  

[00:34:47] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. So I think that's the split.   Jordan can, correct me if I'm wrong there.  

[00:34:55] Unknown:

It should show it in the, in the Well, to be to be clear, this is this is just the NOSDA Zap. So it'll probably just go to the end it'll go to the end pub that's attached to the ungovernable account, and then Max can Oh, that will be So he's just pocketing it.  

[00:35:11] Unknown:

Yeah. If it's that one do you know what? I don't think I even have control of that one.   That might be that might be Jordan. No. No. It'll be someone's in control. It might be Jordan or it might be Crown that one. I can't remember. But either way, it all it all comes in and helps us fund this kind of stuff. So we appreciate the stats. Thank you.  

[00:35:28] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely. And we the Bitcoin nurse has just zapped us 420   stats as well. Thank you for Oh. Getting involved.  

[00:35:35] Unknown:

Very kind. The Bitcoin nurse.  

[00:35:38] Unknown:

Alright.   Next question off the list for you, fine gentlemen.   This one come from,   Home Mining Pod on Twitter.   Their question is, what is the most promising tech innovation that's been proposed or you wish was in development for maximum privacy, security, etcetera, when it comes to Bitcoin, Bitcoin tech, opcodes, etcetera, etcetera?   Now we could probably spend about seventeen hours on this topic, so I'm gonna hold both of you to one   item each knowing full well that I'm sure there's lots of shit that you're excited about. But if there's one thing that's really, making your balls tingle at the moment, what is it, guys?   Whirlpool.  

That was a nice easy answer.   Yeah. So so I'm very people   there might be people listening to this, especially on Nosta that might not be familiar with our show. They might have just seen the livestream pop up. So do you wanna give us, like, a quick two minute, like, what what's happened with Whirlpool? What is it, and and why is it so why is it in the news at the moment?  

[00:36:33] Unknown:

Okay. Yeah. Whirlpool has   just come back within the last,   at least, track of time. But a couple of weeks,   we did an emergency show on it. As soon as it came back, it's,   the Ashigaru team,   has brought it back.   And it's something that we'd lost   for, well, over a year now   since the samurai   arrests and seizures.   And it was a massive,   part of Bitcoin privacy for forward looking privacy, something that we all leaned on very, very heavily,   and it was a way to   break links   for your UTXO.   So if you had something   that you wanted to move privately after that point, you could   enter a whirlpool round.  

So I'm not gonna explain this too well, but but it broke your links   to previous transactions.   And it was a little bit like, for the nontechnical people. If you ever go into, like, a park or somewhere where they do that, like, shuffle thing where they're like,   oh, I'm gonna chuck a cup over the top of this ball, and then I'll shuffle it round with, like, five different cups and you don't know which one's which.   It's kind of like a really clever and technical version of that where   it makes it practically impossible for anyone to track. It came in here, but we don't know which one it is because,   each   cup has the same   it looks exactly the same.  

And in Bitcoin terms, that is because it's the same amount. So you had, like, equal output   coin join.  

[00:38:10] Unknown:

That's a very bad explanation, I think, Q. You might wanna like, the I I like the analogy of of the cup game. But, yeah, it's it's a privacy tool on on, on Bitcoin layer one that, enables you to kind of break what we call deterministic   links from, you know, your your pre your UTXO's prior history.   This is important because Bitcoin has a a completely transparent ledger.   So, you know, anybody with access to something like mempool.space   can track, any transaction and try and guess the   where funds are flowing from a to b to c, etcetera.   So having a tool like Whirlpool, a coin joint tool like Whirlpool is is important if you value your Bitcoin privacy.  

And, yeah, as Max just said, it it's kind of back,   under the guise of, at the Ashigaru,   terminal,   piece of software. And if you wanna learn more, you can go and listen to, the show that Max and I did or the show that Max and Jordan did. Probably one of the two of the most recent,   podcasts in the ungovernable feed where there's there's a couple of deep dives there. One's a bit high level, and then Jordan and and Max go really deep and talk about the the details there as well. But,   yeah. So so that's, what's got you excited, Max, that Will pulls back, and you can now have a bit of, a semblance of privacy on Bitcoin layer one. What about you, Max? Yeah. Well, it's  

[00:39:27] Unknown:

I'll just round that out just with the final point is it it's not just got me excited because,   technically, now Bitcoin is more usable and you can be more private, and, obviously, that's extremely important. But it's also got me excited because it's   brought back a bit of that fuck you,   that I loved about Bitcoin.   It started to get a little bit,   soppy and pathetic, and the people that I saw around me were were soft and weak. And I wasn't excited about the   sort of punk ethos anymore.   And the fact that   after all that's gone on, Ashigaru   have stood up and said, no. Fuck you. We're bringing this back. It's important enough that we're gonna,   put enormous risk on ourselves to do it,   just makes me very, very excited and proud to be part of the movement again.  



[00:40:28] Unknown:

I think   for for me I mean, Whirlpool is definitely a a a key one and it's something that, like,   I don't think of   as promising tech or innovation, but just something, like, we have to have and that we did have, and that was taken away from us. So, like, that's just a necessary building block for so many other things.   I think probably for me, the   like, there's a million ways I could go here. But I I think the thing for me right now,   as I'm deep in the arc and spark and lightning space, thinking about this a lot, talking to a lot of people a lot, like, getting covenants, specifically,   OpsCTV   and OpsCSFS,   the main the main proposal that's going around right now,   fixes the core   potential problems with Ark and makes   self custodial Lightning much more achievable,   which means that privacy and payments in Bitcoin are much more achievable, especially when you're able to pair something like that with Whirlpool.  

And that's something that's often forgotten as people will say like, oh, we have Lightning. We don't need layer one privacy. But if you have bad layer one privacy, your Lightning privacy is necessarily gonna suffer anytime you need to hit the chain.   And in theory, Arc, yes, you're not hitting the chain as much, but you are still   actually exposing a lot of information to the ARC service provider. But there's also some really cool things you could do within ARC, like do Whirlpool   in ARC off chain,   do hundreds of rounds in the time it would take to do a single block on Bitcoin.   There's some really fascinating stuff that you can do.  

And Arc itself, the user experience, the   the self custodial nature, all gets better if we have covenants, because we can do things in a much cleaner way. So seeing those would unlock a whole, like, a whole another world on Bitcoin for privacy, for self custody,   for Lightning being a much more usable tool. So that's definitely the the big one for me. I'm still hopeful. I'm I won't say I'm optimistic, but hopeful that we'll get that in Bitcoin, and we could build even better tooling, even better FreedomTech.  

[00:42:24] Unknown:

So so for the GRUG rate GRUG brains in the back like Max and I, you mentioned a couple of terms there, covenants,   CTV,   CFSF.   Could you give us, like, a a really brief again, I know you could probably spend an hour on this Yeah. Yeah. 5,000 foot view of what they are and kind of what they could enable if they would get activated on on Bitcoin.  

[00:42:45] Unknown:

Yeah. For sure. So,   basically,   all a covenant is, is it's the ability to enforce on chain   spending funds in a specific way.   Only the recipient gets to decide this. So, like, no one can force you to spend your coins a specific way unless you choose to send them to that person. But   what this really does is things you can do today with pre signed Bitcoin transactions, where essentially you can, like, pre sign a bunch of possible transactions using the same UTXOs,   and then give them to someone else, and then you essentially can, like, use them to go back and forth and decide what's what's gonna happen to these funds after this specific thing happens. Like, for instance, joining our And then give them to someone else. And then essentially can, like, use the sending phone to a new user or refreshing a BTXO, which is a thing you have to do, like, every thirty days within ARC.   All of that right now requires you to, like, pre sign a bunch of potential transactions   and have them all ready to go whenever you need to submit them. All covenants do is they let you essentially decide all these paths in advance and enforce them on chain. So you don't have to be online to enforce these. You don't have to have all these potential PSVTs   presigned.  

None of that can break because you accidentally spent that UTXO that you needed to save for this PSVT.   It it improves a bunch of things. It's not some massive new functionality in Bitcoin, but it essentially lets you simplify   and,   build more securely a lot of things that you can already do on Bitcoin. They're just painful today because they require those pre signed transactions. So nothing crazy. A lot of it's really just something that, like,   you as the end user would never need to touch or know about, but it just means that all the tooling we can build, specifically Lightning wallets   and Arc wallets,   and some better self custodial tools, like vaults and other things for longer term storage.  

All of that would be easier to build for developers   and better user experience for you as the end user with something like covenants.  

[00:44:39] Unknown:

Appreciate that. Yeah. That was very succinct. I like it. And something I'm very excited   about as well, and I know you're you're fairly, close to this in terms of, like, the the   the, I guess, the development pros progress.   I'm gonna put you on the spot.   Do you think that we're gonna get that activated in the next two years?  

[00:45:04] Unknown:

Man.   I wish I could give you a firm yes.   I think probably within the next twelve months, we'll we'll know for sure   if it's gonna happen at all.   But I think with the recent stuff, especially with the ridiculous opportune   wars and the ridiculous filtered dates and all the stuff about the the hate against Bitcoin Core because they made this the wise decision and, did the best thing for the Bitcoin network. I think all of that   further ossifies Bitcoin and makes it harder to get changes across the line.   So I feel like right now, I would say, like, there's a relatively low chance that covenants actually happen in Bitcoin. But I would say within the next year,   we'll know one way or another if it's gonna happen. Either we'll have an activation client, there'll be a clear path forward, and we'll we'll be rolling, or   it'll just be dead and we'll give up and Bitcoin won't change anymore.  

So I don't have, like, the happiest answer per se. I'm pretty pessimistic on it, unfortunately,   but also very hopeful because I think it's something that's very important.   So it's it's hard to say. I mean, like, if I had to give, like, a percentage chance or something, I would say, like,   there's a 20% chance   that it gets into Bitcoin.   But, like, from a development perspective, all of this has been done for for years, essentially. It's a very simple change. There's not much to it. We know exactly how this is going to improve things like Arc. We know exactly how this would improve Lightning. We we know all of the outcomes here. It's really just getting community support, getting people to understand why this is important, getting some more code review, and then just having an activation client and people choosing to run it and seeing what happens.  

[00:46:42] Unknown:

Alright. 20% was a lot lower than, I thought you were gonna say. Max has said we've lost the recording. Motherfucker.   Okay. Well, luckily for you, Maxie boy, I'm still recording locally, so we should be all good.   Or are we is he saying saying that we're not live anymore?   Can somebody comment? We're live. Somebody comment? Let us know you can still hear us.   I can still see us live, I think.   Max is talking to himself.   I can hear you. Alright. So we're still live. It looks like Max is having some issues, but we can we can run this shit without him. We don't need him.   Quick, honorable mention for Plunger, for a thousand sat zap on zap. Stream, and BTC Wrestle's app does 5,000 zaps as well. Thanks for stopping by, guys.  

Love that Max is just having,   having a little conversation with himself in the in the Twitter chat.   Alright. The we we we were talking about,   scaling solutions there. And, the next question that I wanted to bring up,   is actually   the winner,   of the best question of the week. We, if those those of you were were on all of the socials when we were pumping the numbers and trying to raise awareness for the show, we said we were gonna give away a,   free Passport Prime   to, the question that we liked the most or the most kind of   interesting question.  

We got heads together before for all of the pre submitted questions. And, the winner of the Passport Prime is mister Superfat   Arrow.   For those of you that don't know, Superfat Arrow is   a bit of a prolific,   dev. He's helped me with a number of side projects in the past. And his question comes via Nosta.   And his,   question is, thoughts on Spark by LightSpark.   They have a dev friendly API, and wallets are already being built to use it, e g, Wallet of Satoshi, which has been in the news this week because they are coming back with, again, quote unquote,   self custodial lightning. We'll get into that in a second.  

So Superfire Arrow said, I think it's not lightning at all, but rather a copy of Mercury layer with the privacy removed. I'm not even sure if it is self custodial.   Lastly, I can't ever trust LightSpark. The red flags keep rolling in. David Marcus of Facebook and Libra fame decided Bitcoin is the one true coin, and he's here to fix it.   They're led by a 16 z.   They launched on a promise of enterprise grade self custodial lightning.   They have, and and I'm still quoting Super Far Arrow here, by the way. They have bastardized the FOSS l n URL protocol to produce a cooked version for banks.   And finally, now they've unblinded the signing service of Mercury Layer and calls it Lightning for regulatory compliance.  

Another cooking of freedom tech. Can I get some thoughts from the panel, please?   Seth, I'm probably thinking that you're gonna be closest to this one, again, as it's a bit of a scaling solution and you might, have a a bit of a technical take. I actually think Superfaro has done a wonderful job there of summarizing it. But, have you got any thoughts or anything to add on or or points to push back on for his, summarization?  

[00:49:56] Unknown:

Yeah. For sure. For sure.   So I think   the comment is maybe a little bit too harsh   on the overall project. I know that David Marcus has kind of   a sketchier background when it comes to the more cyberpunk,   side of things. So I, like, I I definitely understand that.   I've there are a lot of really good people working at Spark though, and very well intentioned.   When it comes to the technology, I think the the thing and there was some good back and forth on Twitter yesterday about this, actually.   The thing that gets tricky here is, like, we have this term self custody,   but I don't think we've done a good job defining exactly what that means.  

Because we talk about a lot of things in self custodial. Obviously, we talked about you hold your own keys layer one. That's like the clearest self custody, because there's, there's nothing that can stop that.   But then we usually also call   Lightning where you hold the keys self custodial,   which is mostly true. But Lightning has some edge cases where you can you can lose funds,   to a bad actor.   We   get into things like like, ARK and Spark. So, like, if we had a spectrum, and it's a little hard to do this without video. But say we have a spectrum of self custody,   and all the way on, like, the the best self custody side is you hold your own keys to Onchain.  

You can do whatever you want. I would say a step   further away from self custody from that is you run your own Lightning node. There are still ways you can lose those funds, that they can be stolen, that there there can be problems there.   But it's it's very self custodial still. If you go a step further away from self custody in like the purest sense, you get to something like ARK, where you have unilateral exit at any time. And except for one minor   scenario,   you also know for sure that you're the only one that can spend funds. Now there is one specific scenario in Arc   where the Arc service provider and the person who paid you can collude to steal funds, but you can solve this at any time by choosing to join around. We won't get into the weeds of how that works. But I would consider Arc, like, one step further from pure self custody than,   running a Lightning node. And maybe in between running a Lightning node and Arc will be something like Phoenix, where you're trusting Lightning service provider in a lot of ways.  

But,   except for a few circumstances, you do have self custody. I think if you go from ARC, you have to take a pretty big leap further away from pure self custody   when it comes to Spark. And the reason I say that is that Spark does use this concept of state chains. And essentially, what this means for self custody   is that you never know for sure   if you're the only one who can spend your funds until you exit on chain within Spark. Because essentially, Spark relies on the operator   deleting the key shares that they have between the person who sent you money, them, and you when money gets transferred.   You can't prove deletion of data. So there's literally no way to know for sure. Even if the arc serve the the Spark service provider says that they did it, that you can't know that they deleted that key share. So you can never actually know for sure that you're the the sole you're in sole possession of the keys to your funds within Spark,   which I think is   too far away from, like, pure self custody to be called self custodial.  

You can still technically unilaterally exit. It gets, like, it gets really into the weeds. But the reason that I am pretty, like, bearish on Spark, and I'm not as excited about it as Arc or something like that, is that issue where you can never know for sure that you're the only one who could who can spend your funds, which is, like, it's too far for me from pure self custody   to be comfortable with it. So that's the biggest problem I have with Spark. All the, like, David Marcus background stuff aside, I think from a technical perspective,   it's something that I can't really call self custodial.  

That doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing.   But I think for the vast majority of people, it's not the best solution. So that's why I much prefer ARC over Spark, and maybe we can get into that in further detail another time. That's fine.  

[00:53:43] Unknown:

Max is back with his, sound board. Yeah. Great summary. You can't hear me, can you? Only for sound board. We can. We can. We can hear you. You can. Oh, you can hear me? You're back. Oh, I'm not recording though. You're recording your site, though. Yeah? I've got recordings. Don't you worry. I meant to say something. Okay. Bye.   Seth. This is it. This is what you're here for. Good. Good. Good. Great summary. Just a couple of follow-up questions. Am I right in saying that, LightSpark would be classified as a side chain?   State chain, excuse me. State chain.  



[00:54:13] Unknown:

State chain, kind of. Okay. And This is also where things get weird because they, like, they took the idea of state chains, but they they changed it in a few QAs.   But, essentially, it's still using state chains at the core of how it works. And just like,  

[00:54:27] Unknown:

Mercury layer of olden days, which was another kind of somewhat private state chain that, unfortunately, never seemed to take off, would I be writing that saying that to actually lose funds in the the kind of light spark implementation, it still requires   the state chain,   I guess, host or runner, I don't know what their term is, to be colluding with,   the person that you're   transacting with on the network, or is it just your fully trust in LightSpark in this scenario?  

[00:54:57] Unknown:

I believe it is colluding, but the difference, like I said, between Arc and Spark is that in Arc, if you join around,   you can break that collusion possibility.   So you can join around. This will be pretty frequent. So any, like, higher amount, you could even say, I won't accept payments out of around   for, like, a million sets or above so that you never are giving up the possibility of custody.   But in Spark, you you can never know for sure. There's no, like, round idea where you can ensure that you're the only one who holds the keys.   So at any time, anyone who's ever paid you could collude with the Spark service provider and steal funds.  

You have no way of preventing that or knowing if that's possible, technically.  

[00:55:36] Unknown:

Got it. Okay. Cool. Yeah. It's it's it's an interesting time,   in kind of Bitcoin   or or usage of Bitcoin. It used to be very binary, didn't it? It was like you hold the private keys or somebody else holds the private keys and you've got an IOU.   That is still strictly true, but we've got all of these new technologies that are kind of shoe honing themselves in the middle that all have many of the different trade offs that you've just mentioned, Seth, where, you know, there might be, a very kind of niche   time period,   or or narrow window where maybe your funds are at risk, but most of the time you're safe. Or you may be putting your trust into a single entity   that, strictly speaking, most of the time can't steal your funds. I'm thinking about, like, Phoenix here.  

But they could kind of make it very difficult for you to access your funds.   And it's all a very much a gray area as to how you interpret it and what you,   deem to be quote, unquote self custody.   I hear the term unilateral exit banded around a lot, and I think you even mentioned it in your your, response to Super Fat Arrow.   And just for for clarity for the listeners, that basically means that   you can take your funds back on chain   at any time without needing to rely on any third parties.   But even even that can sometimes be clouded here. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Seth, in my interpretation. But, like, in the Phoenix example where you have kind of the LSP model where you have a single channel with them,   the unilateral   exit, they that this there is still no way that they can kind of prevent that, is there? You'd like you'd have to jump through a number of hurdles   if they were   out and outright kind of malicious, but you would still be able to kind of do that without their permission. Is that right?  



[00:57:21] Unknown:

Yeah. It's it's simpler in the Phoenix model. You you can just close the channel or force close it in the worst sense if they're not cooperating. The one caveat, and this is where things like, we we have to also be honest about the nuances of Lightning, is that in the LSP model, especially when you first open a channel,   essentially, Phoenix owns all the funds until that channel is confirmed, even though it says that you own those funds.   So there are some ways where, like, they could attack you and prevent that   transaction from confirming and essentially steal funds. There's there's some ways that it can go south. But once you have the initial confirmation on the channel,   the beauty of lightning is that in except in some very rare possible attacks, you can just force close the channel and get your funds back. But you will pay a lot in fees. You will lose privacy for that,   and there are ways even then that Phoenix could attack you with, like, transaction pending attacks and other complex stuff we don't have to get into. So trade offs all the way down?  

Always.  

[00:58:18] Unknown:

Well, guys, believe it or not, we're we're already at the end of, our hard stop one hour.   That was a lot of fun, and with the exception of,   Max, obviously.   It seems that without a technical without a technical hitch,   wanted to give a massive shout out to everybody that was getting involved in the live chat on Twitter, Nosta,   YouTube.   Thanks for all your questions.   I've got still got a massive list of questions that people submitted ahead of time. If you're listening to this live or or after the fact on the ungovernable,   stream, don't forget don't worry. I haven't forgotten about you. We're just gonna keep adding to this list and start picking off those questions,   when we get to subsequent,   shows week after week. So we haven't forgotten about you. We're adding the new stuff. We lost him. Yep.  



[00:59:03] Unknown:

Q.   We get the last word. Yeah. He's shit.