A lively catch‑up with Q&A covering Madrid conference highlights, meeting long‑time nyms IRL, and a sell‑out response to Passport demos. Max and Q dive into Cloaked Wireless’ privacy‑preserving mobile plans (Bitcoin payments, global coverage, minutes/SMS), a public service warning about a fake Foundation Envoy site pushing Windows malware, and AOB including Bitfest Manchester details.
Q's LIghtning WIsdom
NEWS
UPDATES/RELEASES
Q's LIghtning WIsdom
- https://x.com/btcqna/status/1810703621731778757?s=46
- https://xcancel.com/btcqna/status/1810703621731778757?s=46
NEWS
- US Treasury hides BTC balance
- Roman Storm files motion for acquittal
- UK seizes 61,000 BTC
- Square Bitcoin
- Time2Build announced
- UK Bitcoiner gets phished
UPDATES/RELEASES
- Envoy 2.1.0 beta
- Bitcoin Core v30.0
- Bisq 'Easy' mobile
- Bullish decoder
- Sparrow v2.3.0
- Layerz wallet
- Dojo v1.28
- Nunchuk v1.73
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[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to queue. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable. It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling.
I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cake Wallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero. You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating.
And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Hola.
[00:02:45] Unknown:
That's so weird. I was gonna do that as well. What are you? I was literally just before we went live, you were counting down, and I was like, I need to pick a language to say hello in. I was like, well, we're gonna talk about Madrid, so I'm gonna say hola.
[00:03:01] Unknown:
We've been recording together for too long. We have, mate. Was it good in Madrid? Was it everything you'd hoped for?
[00:03:07] Unknown:
Honestly, it was excellent. Both the city, the people, and obviously the conference as well. One of the most enjoyable ones I've had for for quite a while. We've said for a while or I've said for a while that I like the smaller ones. They just feel there's a a lot more of a community aspect. There's a lot it's a lot less corporate. And, yeah, Spanish Bitcoin is all of my assumptions were confirmed in person. They're just fucking based. It was so cool getting to meet quite a handful of NIMs that I've spoken to for for some of them, like up to like four or five years, if not a little bit more online. Getting to meet them for the first time, mixing with them in the in the privacy circles online for for quite some time. So it was wonderful to get to share a beer and and shave their hand. So they know who they are. I won't name drop anybody, but, yeah, it was it was fantastic to meet people. We sold out our passport calls on day two, really well received. We had a small booth there. It felt like a little bit of a spare part of the booth at times because obviously Madrid is in Spain and people wanted to talk in Spanish. And You've got the hola. Uno cerveza por favor. Yeah. That's that's about the top and bottom of it.
After that, if you ask me to talk about anything, let alone technical Bitcoin terms in Spanish, It goes downhill pretty quickly. So there's a few funny moments where people will come up to me, and I don't I don't think I look particularly Spanish. And, they'll just start speaking in Spanish. I actually would in Spain. Like, I'm not throwing shade here. Like, I'm in their country. And, there's just, like, this horrible moment where I look back at them, and then I look across to my colleague who can't speak Spanish because he is Spanish and be and he's like, oh, yeah. That guy's English. He's like, I'll help you. So, it's quite funny. That guy's on long. I don't fucking bother. Just Yeah. Yeah. We just drafted him in. We're just gonna throw him on stage off for the one English talk that there was. But, yeah, good fun. Really good fun. Did manage to get a little a few hours, of exploring
[00:05:00] Unknown:
around the city as well. Yeah. It was excellent. Really good trip. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. What else has been going on in the Bitcoin world then? Something I saw the other day that was tweeted, it looks quite interesting, was this cloaked wireless thing. And I haven't, like, dug into it. I think I know what it's about, but tell me because it looks pretty interesting.
[00:05:23] Unknown:
Yeah. So so cloaked wireless, their website, if you wanna check it, obviously, it'll be linked in the show as well. Cloakedwireless.com It's basically just like a privacy preserving phone plan operator. They are a company that's they're under the same umbrella as some of the the investors that we've got in Foundation. And we've kind of collaborated so that when you purchase a Passport Prime or a Passport Core and you use the code cloaked at checkout on the foundation website, you're gonna get a free month plan, which is worth depending on which plan you use, it can be worth up to $75 so that you can just try out the cloaked service. Very similar to Samsung or Link, etcetera. Yeah. Very similar where, you know, you can get a data plan, kind of a a no KYC data plan where you'll have a dedicated number. There's different plans, obviously, that you can kind of go and grab different amounts of speed or amounts of data. And I think all of their plans also come with SMS as well. I don't know whether they do voice plans. It might be worth checking on their website if that is a feature that you need.
Global? You put it anywhere? Or I believe it is global. Yes. Again, have a look through their docs just to confirm that. But, yeah, outside of this, obviously, you can pay in Bitcoin if you, you know, if you like the free month and then you wanna continue with it, you can do so a privacy preserving way by paying with Bitcoin. And Mhmm. Yeah. Just a a a good team behind them. I've I've got to know the two main guys behind the brand that is cloaked, and, they seem to have a a very kind of aligned ethos. So, yeah, it was a pleasure to get to work with them and give some freebies out to to foundation customers so that, you can have a little taste and see, if you like it. And just to correct myself, all of their plans also have minutes or, you know, voice plans as well. Okay. So, it is a very all encompassing package, and they they start at $25 a month, and they go right up to $75 a month. And to be clear, this coupon that you get free when you purchase a foundation product, you can use that on the most expensive plan as well. So, yeah, make sure you get your money's worth. So up to 75. Nice. Presumably, obviously, you can pay in Bitcoin, Lightning Absolutely. Anything else? Monero or not? Certainly can. I don't know whether they support Monero. Definitely Bitcoin.
I'm pretty sure Lightning. I'm not sure on any other cryptocurrencies Might be worth checking. Well, Lightning's good for doing that kind of stuff. If there isn't Monero and there's Lightning, I'm pretty happy with that. Yeah. Definitely. Worth checking out. Completely free, obviously, if you've purchased a an accompanying foundation product. But otherwise, you can get started for $25 a month as well. Very nice. Couple of other AOB bits for me. Been speaking to mister Nathan Day, and, he's given me a a a shell code for, Bitfest in Manchester, which is coming up next month, which is a a conference that he's helping put on. It's gonna be Nosta Talks. Obviously, Bitcoin Talks, and I believe there's like a Bitcoin art collective there as well. Oh, yeah. That's gonna be in Manchester. If you wanna get 10% off your ticket, you can use the code q and a 10 on the website that'll be linked in the show notes. To be perfectly clear, I get nothing back for that. It's just you get $10 off your ticket.
[00:08:27] Unknown:
Nice. The art class is that like chief monkey in that little group?
[00:08:31] Unknown:
Do you know what? I've not dove into the art side of things. Maybe but, Nathan, when you hear this, you can comment on whichever post you see this on or comment on fountain and and let us know. But I'm sure it will all be listed on the Bitfest website, which will definitely be linked to the show notes as well. Very nice. Final bit of AOB for me is more of a public service warning, I guess. We at Foundation became alerted to a fake Foundation website that won't be linked in the show notes, but it's something like foundationenvoy.app or something like that. Obviously, please don't visit it. It's a fake website.
They've done a a very lackluster job at cloning our website. Anybody who has visited our website at least once will look at this one and be like, yeah. They, they didn't put much effort into that. But I could see how it might look legit enough for somebody to, stumble across it if they're maybe, I guess, how do you put it, less digitally native to to kinda pick up on this sort of stuff. Basically and it just as a download button where it offers you a an desktop version of the Envoy app, which to be clear, does not exist. And, some of the engineers have actually done a bit of testing here with the in a in a virtual machine here just to see what happens. And I don't even think it actually downloads even a fake version of Envoy desktop. It just basically downloads an executable on your Windows machine that will then go install in all sorts of horrible stuff, probably key loggers, looking for seed word keywords in your file systems and private keys .txt and all that sort of usual stuff. So a reminder, just remain vigilant. Our website is foundation.xyz.
I'm sure if you looked hard enough, there will be similar clone websites for all of the the common wallets. So just be vigilant. If you're unsure, you know, reach out to somebody who's been in the space for a little bit longer and, you know, have them just say, you know, hey. Does this, download link or this download website, does it look legit? Is this where you would expect to come to get, you know, x piece of software? Yeah. It's always worth checking. So these executable files, they are just Windows. If someone did this on a Mac or did this on Linux or something like that, what would happen? Would it do anything? Honestly, don't know. I'd need to check with the engineers in in house at Foundation. They only mention Windows executable, so I'm guessing maybe nothing happens. But I suppose if the attackers were motivated enough that the malware might be smart enough to figure out what you're running and install the appropriate malware, I'm pretty sure it just affects Windows users, which if we're being honest, is probably the Windows user base is probably the most likely to fall prey to something like this. Yeah. I was just about to say That might be a sweeping generalization. That might upset some people, but it's a well founded, assumption to make.
[00:11:12] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that is fair. Okay. Well, yes, David. And also just ask if you're new, in the space, ask the groups, ask me, ask you, ask in the comment. It's better just to wait a couple of days or a week before making a move rather than making a move and fuck yourself. Yeah. 100%. What about you, mate? That was my a or b. Anything going on in your world we're talking about before we hit the news? Not really. It's all still fear, bullshit trying to drown me. I'm still, paddling away, kicking my legs, trying to stop going under. No. Actually, other than, I've got really excited with our Freedom Tech Friday conversation last week, and that's been just going through my head. I think that was one of our best ones. I really enjoyed it. I was, like kept, like, pinging through my head of, like, oh, I could do this. Oh, I could do that.
So it's really, like, grabbed my attention, I would say, more than most things have for a while because it's kind of you know, you got you got your Bitcoin set up, and you're just just like, okay. Well, this is kind of unless something major, I don't really do a lot of changes here, and you kind of get set in your ways to some extent. And, like, I can't be bothered to change unless there's gonna be a massive improvement. Like, there's no reason that I'm gonna be moving away from Sparrow, and there's no reason that I'm not gonna be using my passport. And I'm just kind of as I am. But this stuff, I'm like, okay. This is now fucking cool. So
[00:12:30] Unknown:
I'm excited about that. Yeah. It was an enjoyable one that I haven't forgotten. I I owe you a list of a shopping list, don't I? It's still on my, my to do list. Don't worry. Just while I remember, because it's just popped up, we've just had an additional question for the question section later on on Nosta. I've got it up on my phone, but it's not in the list. So when we get to the question page, just remind me there's an extra one on my phone. Okay. Okay. Into the news. First article comes from, of course, The RAGE. And it's, that I like the title. The US Treasury won't tell us how much Bitcoin it owns. The guys at The RAGE, I believe it was Lola behind this one, filed a a FOIA, freedom of information act request, asking them to disclose the amount of Bitcoin held by the US Treasury distinguished by Bitcoin seized and Bitcoin forfeited, which I thought was a a clever little addition to add to that rather than just getting a a lump sum of what they've got in their grubby little nits.
The request was made in light of a previous article that they I believe we might have talked about a couple of shows ago that revealed that the US Marshals Service, which is the agency which manages the government's forfeiture program, VIT, stolen, that then when they reported it, said it they held less than 30,000 BTC, which is miles away from the 200,000 that was previously advertised to be owned by mister Trump. Mhmm. So they've now had a response, basically. And, if I was to summarize, it, was basically on your bike. But, according to the the response, FOIA regulations require that the request describe documents in sufficient detail to enable us to locate the records without placing an unreasonable burden upon the IRS.
Because the FOIA is not intended to reduce agency personnel to investigators on behalf of the requesters or to allow requesters to conduct phishing expeditions through agency files. Jesus. That reads like it was written by a government official, doesn't it? Oh my god. But, yeah, basically, they've been told you're not having it because it's too much work for us to do it. Well, that was the guys that they've put this under. The initial summary was, your FOIA request is overly broad in nature, so we ain't doing it. Okay. This article signs off as a a new FOIA request has now been filed with the treasury for records of Bitcoin that have been forfeited to the US government. So they're getting a bit more specific now to see if they can get something out of them, which I thought was was quite fun. Very good. Very good. Poking the bear. Yeah. Indeed. Indeed.
Next on the list, I love this one. Again, from the rage, article will be linked in the show notes. Roman Storm has filed a motion for acquittal on all counts. Now anybody who pays attention to the show will be like, well, yeah, we can't undo this. We can happen because in fairness, on his verdict date a couple of months ago, he said, I think, unquote, this is bullshit and we're gonna fight it. And he stayed true to his word. Oh, it was back in August, it was. And, yeah, he filed motion for acquittal last week, maybe, or or the week before on all counts.
The defense is arguing that the statutes applied cannot withstand the scrutiny of the first amendment as the government would effectively criminalize the publication of decentralized software. Storm was discouraged from presenting a first amendment defense at trial as judge failure had found that, quote, the functional capability of code is not speech within the meaning of the first amendment. And that was in a a pretrial hearing. So, yeah, very happy to hear that he, you know, he's ponying up here and, fighting the man because, again, as we've said many, many times, it has potentially big ramifications for the the rest of the crypto industry. Not only us in Bitcoin as as much as we like to pigeonhole ourselves away from that dirty word crypto. Not on the show, obviously. But, yeah, huge ramification. So love to, see that he's fighting this. Another good quote here. Storm's conviction of conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitter was controversial from the beginning as numerous advocacy groups as well as Storm's defense argued that Tornado Cash did not qualify as a money transmitter as its developers never took custody of funds and therefore could never have engaged in the transfer of funds. Again, if you've listened to any of the previous briefs, you would have heard all of this before. So I don't know when, this will like, the follow-up hearing is gonna take place.
I am quickly scanning the article, but it's not mentioned here yet. This is a very long article by the way. So, yeah. If you're interested in the the follow-up to this, would recommend checking this one out. And as always, when we have future developments on this one, we will, make sure that we keep you guys updated. Also quick note to fabulous producer. Can we include the donation link to to an Edward Cash or to Romans Fund? Let's make sure that we signpost people to getting some funds into his coffers or his lawyers coffers to, you know, give him every possible chance of fighting this successfully. Love you, Jordan. Yeah. Definitely. Respect to him. And, yeah, love you, mate. Did did you like the little video of our Canadian overlord
[00:17:38] Unknown:
last week?
[00:17:40] Unknown:
I did. Yeah. If you don't know what we're talking about, go back to last week's freedom set Friday on Twitter or on YouTube and check out the the video right at the end. Max has done some incredible work, if I do say so myself.
[00:17:51] Unknown:
His little Canadian flag.
[00:17:55] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. It's good work. That it was good work. I am liking the the capabilities that, AI video production is, allowing us. Love it. Yeah. It's pretty incredible. I think mister Crown put it best. It was he said something like I can't remember how he said it. I'll paraphrase it. It must be good if Mac can produce something like this
[00:18:14] Unknown:
or something to that effect. Something like that. Yeah. It was very good. Thank you, mister Crandall. I appreciate that comment.
[00:18:22] Unknown:
Okay. Next item coming out of The UK. An individual named Yadi Zhang, not of British origin, as you would guess with a surname like that, has plead guilty in The UK to illegally acquiring $6,700,000,000 of Bitcoin. UK police now have possession of 61,000 Bitcoin that she stole in the largest cryptocurrency seizure in history. Zhang ran a massive scam in China between 2014 and 02/2017, defrauding a 128,000 victims and then subsequently stashing the proceeds in Bitcoin. Now obviously
[00:19:00] Unknown:
Wow.
[00:19:01] Unknown:
Defrauding 128,000 people, I'm never gonna get behind that. But at least they had the wherewithal to put it into something that's not gonna disappear over the course of, you know, ten or fifteen years through inflation.
[00:19:13] Unknown:
It won't disappear over ten or fifteen years. It disappears in one day when it sees Yes. When you get a very big, heavy knock on the door. Yeah.
[00:19:21] Unknown:
Oh. She later fled to The UK with false documents and tried to launder funds through property. Her lawyer says the victims can now be repaid, noting Bitcoin's rise means there are more than sufficient funds available. But reports suggest UK government may try to keep the Bitcoin Of course. Instantly creating the world's third largest national strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean, they're not that clever. They're gonna fucking sell it, aren't they?
[00:19:48] Unknown:
They're not even not that clever. They are so retarded it hurts. They'll do something like swap it for Doge when, like, after a pump of Doge because of something that, like, Elon has tweeted, and they'll pile in there. And then that will drop 80%, and then they'll sell that for something else. They'll they'll lose all of it. And then whatever's left, they'll send it to Zelensky's bank account. Yes. Oh, fucking it. How crazy is that, though, that one lady has inadvertently given the opportunity
[00:20:25] Unknown:
for a country to have the third largest Bitcoin reserve in the world. It's crazy, innit? That is mad. I'm sure China will have something to say about life. They've got people in their country that have been defrauded that are owed money. Like, can you see Keir Starmer standing up to president Xi being like, yeah. No. We wanna keep it. Like, that's not never gonna happen, is it? No. I can't think so. But I also can't think that they'd really care about, like, just normal no offense, but the type of people who get hit by these scammy,
[00:20:52] Unknown:
fraudulent, crypto bullshit stuff are generally not that smart, and they're generally not that wealthy as a general rule. So they're probably just people that, like, producing ping or whatever is anything they would fuck about. It's not even gonna cross his radar. True. When I was, quickly scanning a couple of articles relating to this story, what I couldn't find was what this the actual scam in China was that she managed
[00:21:16] Unknown:
to scam a 128,000 people. Well, you had a look to do. Yeah. It came across my radar because, obviously, the UK police had took custody of all the Bitcoin that she converted into, but I don't know what the scam in the first place was that she then put the proceeds into Bitcoin. What was her name? It was Yadi Zhang, y a d I.
[00:21:36] Unknown:
Zhang, zed h a n g. Here's a breakdown of what you need to know about Yadi Zhang, also known as Ximen Qian, and her scam. The scam was between 02/2014, 02/2017. In China, she ran an investment wealth scheme fraud that targeted more than a 128,000 victims. The scheme promised high returns often via investment agreements and used intermediaries, brokers, and promotional events.
[00:22:00] Unknown:
So it was a pyramid scheme?
[00:22:02] Unknown:
Yeah. But part of the pitch was involved in things like Bitcoin mining, elderly care, environmental protection, etcetera, the fraud proceeds, blah blah blah. So, basically, yeah, a pyramid scheme. Wow. Must be a pretty big one. Fair play. I mean, sometimes you look at these things, and, obviously, it's wrong. It's bad. But you look at the front on these people, and you're like, you're just a different animal. Like, what was that blonde lady that did the billion dollar like, she could take blood, but without taking blood, and it became, like, a massive multibillion dollar company, and she had literally no technology. It was all just a massive bluff. What was her name? They did a documentary on it. Oh, I don't know. Not heard of that one. She, like, looked a bit like Gollum. She had, like, massive eyes. She looked a bit fucking weird.
But, yeah, they're just, like, the front on these people. They, like, create companies and, like, this whole veneer of, like, people are like, oh my god. This is multibillion dollar huge thing. Oh my god. There were and then, actually, it's just some cunt who's just lying. They'll do nothing. It's like, you have to say, like, fair play. You've got some front. It's wrong, but wow. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:23:08] Unknown:
I don't think she's been sentenced yet, but I'd imagine with a whole lot big, it's probably gonna be a lengthy one. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Next on the list, something that's slightly more positive. I'm keen to get your take on this one because I know, most of the ungovernables are not the biggest fan of, mister Jack Dorsey. But, Not particularly. Personally, this is bullish. Square Bitcoin in their latest release have announced two very cool things. Number one, if you are a merchant and you use a Square terminal, of which I believe there's like 4,000,000 different merchants in The US alone that use the Square terminals. You can convert a percentage of every single sale automatically into Bitcoin so that you can build up your own company treasury if you wanted to.
You can go anywhere from 1% up to, I presume, up to a 100% if you wanted to. And that's all automatically so that you can, as a company, auto buy Bitcoin just by doing your day to day sales, essentially, just by running your business. But also the second item here, which is due to launch in November 10, a little under a month from today, you can accept Bitcoin payments automatically so that your customers can pay in Bitcoin, And you can choose to receive those in BTC or have them auto converted into USD so that, again, you can attract Bitcoiners to your store, but never have to touch a single set of Bitcoin in your entire life ever if you're only interested in dollars.
And in doing so, if you keep them in BTC, there are zero processing fees all the way through to the 2026 as a bit of a a hook into get people into this kind of ecosystem, and you start interacting with Bitcoin. I believe this is US only for now. Though I have seen a couple of tweets from Miles from the Square team that says they're already working on a global rollout, which presumably can't be that difficult because Square terminals are the same all over the world. I'm guessing that the hurdle is more of a regulatory one for them. So two very cool things. I think the second one is way cooler because I'm sure, especially our American listeners will know at least a handful of local merchants to them that use a Square Terminal. They're very common, particularly at more smaller outfits where I believe, again, this is gonna be turned on by default so that you can just go in, pay with Bitcoin. The merchant
[00:25:31] Unknown:
basically needs to know very little if anything other than the fact that they have this feature available to them and they get what they want at the end. They can either keep the Bitcoin or they can automatically switch to USD with zero fees. What do you think? Yeah. I don't trust Dorsey, but I think this is a positive. I'm trying to think where the negatives are. There there are some negatives, but as a general rule, it's a massive positive. Especially if people can go in and just pay without the merchant having to understand anything about Bitcoin, if it's just like, here's your bill, and you can just scan a QR code or whatever it is you've gotta do. Excuse the rain here, by the way, in the middle of a storm. If you can just do that, then that's incredible. It will also then introduce people to Bitcoin because, presumably, some of these merchants will be like, oh, okay. I'm not paying the fees that I would with a credit card, which is actually pretty significant. Exactly. Yeah. So that's a big one. And then on top of that, they'll probably over time be like, oh, shit. I switched it to US dollars. But look, if I'd have kept it, this would have been I would have a much better situation than I have now as a general rule over time. So that's generally quite a good hook. I guess my only concerns or potential negatives are, how does it work on payments in terms of presumably, it's just lightning rather than on chain, but that would be good to know because, obviously, that gives some layer of privacy. And can it be done from any wallet, or do you have to do it through Stripe or a fully compliant company? Like, can you just pull out
[00:27:00] Unknown:
your Phoenix wallet or Zeus wallet or whatever and just pay for your shopping like that? Yeah. My understanding so the last question is, yes, you'll be presented with either an invoice, a lightning invoice, or an on chain address. You can pay from any wallet. Like, I'm pretty confident that's the way that they're gonna head with that. And what was remind me what the first point that you made was?
[00:27:20] Unknown:
Fuck knows. Someone can tell us in the comment. Obviously, not that important. I think that's the main one. Like, can anyone pay Because you want it to be usable by everyone and not be looped into, like, a a KYC headache. So if you can do that, that's great. And if it can just be turned on and everyone can use it, the guy behind the counter doesn't need to know what they're doing, you can just pay, then I don't know. I think it's great. I I can't think of really a a a big negative there. I think that's a a big, big win if it happens. And looking at this from a merchant perspective as well, like, sometimes
[00:27:54] Unknown:
merchants can get scared by, like, tax burdens and things like that. But because this is literally a merchant tool, like, they've already said, look. All of the tax thing is all handled for you. So you'll depending on which way you do it, whether you're saving, whether you're spending, paying your bills in Bitcoin, or you've do 50 or anything like that, it's all gonna be handled from a tax perspective for you so that you just get one file at the end of the year. You just give that to your accountant. And then so to remove that headache is huge because I'm a strong believer that that is one of the main roadblocks for merchants not adopting Bitcoin. It's they're like, you know what? The user base is so small at the moment that I'm just it's not worth my time to go through that headache. To calculate the taxes on the 10 transaction, I might do it in a year.
[00:28:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Definitely. Oh, no. I think that's huge. It's just making it mainstream and easy, but doing it in a way that people who have been in Bitcoin for a while and wanna spend their Bitcoin can do that without jumping through so many hoops all the time, and that's a brilliant thing. I like it. I think it's really cool. So two final things for me on this one is number one, because the Square terminals tend to be
[00:28:58] Unknown:
used by medium to small businesses, like larger merchants will have their own custom stuff. Like coffee shops and stuff. Yeah. Exactly. But like mom and pop shops and things like that, they tend to use this type of solution. So not only will they push people to spend their Bitcoin, but it'll push them to spend Bitcoin in smaller businesses, which we all know are really feeling the pinch at the moment compared to the the tech conglomerates. And then the final point I wanna say is a bit more of a, let's not get too excited too quickly in terms of how well used this might be particularly in the short term because it's US launch it first. And any time that you spend your Bitcoin and it or exchange it for goods or services is a taxable event in The US for the person that's spending the Bitcoin.
Now I have my own thoughts on that, but we are public voices and I'm not gonna tell people to evade the law. So I'd imagine that most people are gonna be less forthcoming when doing this, or if they are gonna do it, then they're gonna maybe keep it quiet. Yeah. Well,
[00:29:57] Unknown:
obviously, we, you know, we've got our opinions on whether the taxes are legitimate or not legitimate and all that kind of stuff. But the truth is if you fuck with these things too much, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble. And so Mhmm. Just everyone should be careful is all I say. The fact that it is on the Lightning Network and you're spending from a Lightning Wallet as a payment to the little you know, you see these things in, like, you know, these little pop up coffee vans that are like Yep. You know, a repurposed old truck or whatever, and it's like that type of stuff where, like, you're spending $5 or $10 and just it's those types of things. I'll just say, I think that's a very good way of like redistributing, getting Bitcoin into the hands potentially of these smaller business owners and entrepreneurs and people who, like you say, are feeling the pinch more. And if you wanna see it go anywhere, really, it's there, like, to the normal people, to the people who it might just click with, and they might just say, oh, this thing is actually pretty cool. This is pretty interesting. Let me take a look, and it might just help them and their families. So I think this is pretty cool. Yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to the case studies that could come out next year from Square to be like, oh, business x
[00:31:12] Unknown:
converted 2% of their daily sales into Bitcoin, and it's done this for their bottom line. And they are, as a small mom and pop shop, they are now 25% above where they would have been had they just took US dollars and stuff like that. I think that's gonna be a very powerful marketing tool. Obviously, very dependent on the Bitcoin price as is most things in in this industry.
[00:31:33] Unknown:
See, oh, yeah. This young entrepreneur, they started this coffee van. They've pulled their life savings into it. They they dropped out of their corporate job. They thought, no. I'm not gonna do this. It's it's this and the van life and Bitcoin, and it's gone.
[00:31:49] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Yeah. Good. That's good news. Yeah. Remain measured on it, but, seems like a positive step in the right direction for a very big portion of the Bitcoin ecosystem because it's very American centric as we all know. Yes. All right. Next on the list, I thought this was cool worth a a quick mention. The guys behind Breeze come up with a new initiative called Time to Build. The URL is time, the number two, build.dev. It's a worldwide developer challenge to bring Bitcoin to the world's leading open source applications and services using the Breeze SDK. So, obviously, not for everybody. Basically, they've got, a number of bounties out for people to build cool shit that uses the Breeze SDK as kind of like the foundational layer here. It's very broad in terms of what you can build. But, yeah, there's a there's a good quote here. Moving value online shouldn't be limited to financial applications. Think bigger.
What if every app, every service, every platform could move value as easily as it moves information? That's the future you're building. Messaging and social apps that sends apps like a DM, real time tipping to content creators, musicians, and podcasters, or power crypto wallets with lightning. The possibilities are endless. So I'm excited to see what comes out of this. I think the prize is $25,000, but, it's split into three. Gold is 7,000 mid rank projects. Second place is 3,500, and then third place is a thousand dollars. I'm guessing there's multiple in each because that doesn't add up to 25,000.
Maybe if you're a budding vibe coder, then it could be a good way to to earn some Bitcoin here. Very nice. And the last news article we have is sadly a UK Bitcoiner that goes by Bitcoin Cookie, who I've, to be honest, I've never heard of before. No. They got hacked a couple of weeks ago and lost all of their Bitcoin savings. Took a while for the details to come out here, but it won't be a surprise for you to learn that the user had a hardware wallet and the hardware wallet was not hacked. The user clicked a malicious link, which led to their cloud stored seed being leaked to the wrong people by buying money gone, which is obviously, you know, a a horrible thing to go into.
I believe it was to the tune of a little over half a Bitcoin, which, you know, is like, what, $60,000 at the today's prices, something like that. Yeah. So he was using a ledger. There's absolutely zero indication here to say that the ledger was at fault. It seems as though I found one tweet maybe where he said that he used the cloud service where I presume his seed was stored. Whatever link he's clicked has given the hacker access to some of his services, particularly wherever he had his his seed stored in the cloud, which is obviously not a great idea at all. It's not the best to say. And completely defeats the point of having a hardware wallet in the first place. So Mhmm. Obviously didn't bring this up to kind of dunk on the guy. It's heartbreaking. I bring you up as a another stark reminder as to if you have a hardware wallet, then maybe don't keep your fucking seed on a cloud service. Keep it offline even if it is in a ledger. Yeah. Keep it offline and whatever you get sent, don't enter your seed words ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. There is literally never a scenario where you should enter your seed words into a website.
Never, ever. Not once. Even if your hardware wallet blows up in your hands and you really need support, they still will never ever, ever, ever, ever ask you to enter your seed words anywhere other than a hardware
[00:35:24] Unknown:
wallet. Yeah. They're the ones that seem to be the low hanging fruit and the things that people go for is just like, you know, click this link, and they'll try and you know, like, he's had it on the cloud, which is not ideal, and then enter your seed words, and you just see it. It's so shit. We give out the advice all the time, and and lots of other places give out the advice all the time, but it doesn't mean that those people are listening. Yeah. They're either not listening to any podcast or reading any articles or they're listening, but to some fucking chilling idiot who doesn't care about them or their privacy or security. And it's sad because you're just like, oh, mate. Fucking if it happens to you, you'd you'd be really fucking upset. So, yeah, stay vigilant.
[00:36:10] Unknown:
Again, this is absolutely not a dunk on the guy. I'm highlighting this to show that complacency literally will get you wrecked. This guy, I'm just looking at his profile now. He says he's a dev, a developer at the Bitcoin trading card game. So, like, this guy's clearly has at least some level of technical competency. Mhmm. And he clearly just got complacent because it's like, oh, you know, my seat's in the cloud. My cloud's never never gonna get hacked. Like, you don't have to be a fucking 40 IQ idiot to get wrecked by this. Clever people still do, and they do because they get complacent and they get comfortable. He's been on Twitter since 2018, so it sounds like he's done at least a couple of cycles Been around. And, unfortunately, should've known better. But, again, I'm not dunking on the guy. No. It's just that complacency is it will get you wrecked.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
I actually think smarter people in some ways are more likely to get wrecked. The people who are quite tech savvy and, oh, I use this for this and they're like, you know, everything's easy and, you know, that's encrypted over here. And, like, I think sometimes they trip themselves up more because, like, a fucking idiot like me is just, like, don't wanna deal with any complexity, hardware wallet, steal. That's it. Use one app. Because I'm scared because I'm I know I'm dumb. I'm like, I'm not smart enough for this clever shit and this and, you know, all this. Jump through that hoop and do it over here and whatever. I'm just like simple, simple, simple, simple, simple.
And I think fucking Luke Dash junior, he got, like, 300 hacks the other day. Prime example. Obviously smart, a bit weird, but he's, you know, he's not a low IQ fucking knuckle dragger. He's just a bit weird. You know a bit about computers and software and stuff. Like, you you you know some stuff, and you get 300 Bitcoin taken from you in theory. You know? So this is the perfect example of, like, so smart that you trip yourself up with your own brains.
[00:38:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. Just, again, stay vigilant. Yeah. Nothing more to say about it. No. Right, mate. Boosts?
[00:38:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Late stage Huddle with 6006¢. Brits eat spam question mark. Damn. Y'all are more like rednecks than I thought. I've always referred to spam as stuff posing as meat. I like that. That's very good. Stuff posing as meat, but it's good if cooked correctly in some fried rice or spam musubi. I don't know what that is. Which oh, which is like sushi, but with spam. Oh god. That sounds awful. It does. That sounds absolutely hideous. I guess Hawaii is halfway between Southeast Asia and the rednecks in the Southern United States, so it's a nice mix.
Thanks for your explanation of the knots versus core debate. I appreciate y'all as always. Well, we appreciate you. Thank you for your support and also letting us know what Masubi is.
[00:39:09] Unknown:
Yes. I've never heard of Masubi either. Before I read the next boost, was it late stage Huddle that said that he was held at gunpoint in Texas or something like that? Or was it one of the other regulars? Do you know what? My memory is terrible. I can't remember. It might have been late stage Huddle. It was one of them. Anyway, he got back to me on Noster, and I'll send you the link to it because it is a wild story. He gave me the story in the comments because Absolutely. I think we read the boost when we were live, and I said I can share that story. He responded to that show somewhere, and I'll send you the link. It's so funny. I'm pretty sure it was late stage title book. If it wasn't, you late stage title and I apologize to whoever it was.
[00:39:46] Unknown:
I'll look forward to that one. Chad Farrows. Sorry, mate. I'm stepping on your toes, and I really apologize.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
Chad Farrow streamed a whopping 2,700 sats. Thank you, sir.
[00:40:01] Unknown:
Thank you, Chad Farrow. Chet with 2,121 sats, English fags, Max is an undercover Nazi.
[00:40:09] Unknown:
You got me, mate. You got me. That's that's a pretty big insult these days.
[00:40:14] Unknown:
It's fine. I've got him on the show. He's coming on next week, so I'm gonna abuse that fucking retard when he comes on.
[00:40:22] Unknown:
That bearded oaf. He's got a good smile. He's got a great smile. One of the best Bitcoiner smiles I've ever seen. He's just Yeah. Always looked really happy.
[00:40:31] Unknown:
Yeah. He is. He's a happy guy. He's a happy guy. Shadowy super badger. Fucking hell. It's me, then it's you, then it's me, then it's you. Right. That's that's how it goes. I don't know what I'm doing.
[00:40:44] Unknown:
Go on. Shadowy super badger streamed 1,440 sats. Thank you, Superbadger.
[00:40:51] Unknown:
Thank you, mate. Open mic streamed 1,100 sats. Thank you, Open Mic.
[00:40:56] Unknown:
Tam Tam Bam with 1,021 sats. Great episode. I really appreciate your perspectives. It's so important to keep people's feet on the ground in the quote, church of Bitcoin. As the pie in the sky thinking built around a desire for a future utopia makes a lot of people in this space dislocate from reality of the big, bad world that exists. They're divorced from the fact that some dangerous motherfuckers are coming for them in their sovereignty, which makes them a danger to themselves and each other. Couldn't agree more.
[00:41:28] Unknown:
Great. Great boost. Thank you very much, TamTam Bam Bam. Nathan Day streamed 900 sats. Thank you, Nathan Day. I've not spent enough time with Nathan Day. I've only caught up with him a couple of times. One time, I was absolutely fucking blasted out of my face in Amsterdam, so I couldn't really remember it.
[00:41:48] Unknown:
And once with, once with Ben Gunn, but he's a good guy. He does a lot of good stuff in the space, and he supports us. So thank you back and day. He's got his finger in lots of pies. He he did message me the other day. Actually said he's been catching up with a load of our shows. So, thank you for streaming as well while you're doing so, sir. Thanks, mate. User three five two two one seven seven seven. Streamed 810 sats.
[00:42:09] Unknown:
Thank you. Rev Huddl. I wonder how long the feedback loop will be to determine the consequences of more node runners taking the configuration of their nodes into greater consideration. Seems like it could take a while before hindsight becomes twenty twenty. Thoughts? I don't know.
[00:42:32] Unknown:
I see where Rev Huddl's going with this. Maybe hindsight will become twenty twenty in, you know, a number of years. I don't know. I just think this whole thing is just a bit of a nothing burger and, like, this whole not split. Maybe they stick around because the dividers got too big and it sits at, like, 30% of claimed amount of nodes. Fine. Cool. Go for it. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. The main thing that just gets so tiresome is just the usual crowd just running around shrieking that Bitcoin's gonna die and that, you know, there's gonna be CSAM all over the blockchain and that we're all gonna get locked up because we're running those. Like, fuck off. Yeah. Just shut up. Bitcoin will keep being Bitcoin
[00:43:12] Unknown:
irrespective of which node implementation you run. We're gonna be fine. That's the attack in my personal opinion. The attack is divide and conquer, create a load of confusion, get people fighting, waste everyone's time with pointless arguments. That's the spam. It's the spam of our minds. It's like a constant spamming of useless shit where we could be thinking about more important things. That's my opinion on the whole thing. And I don't care what anyone runs. I couldn't care less.
[00:43:41] Unknown:
Agreed. And, yes, it was late stage Huddl. I had the wild story, by the way. I just found it in my, master mentions. So, yeah. Thanks for sharing that one. Very funny. For those that are interested, you can go and go through my mentions on master. It'll be on there somewhere. We all eat. Chat again. Stream 600 zaps. Thank you, sir.
[00:43:59] Unknown:
Thank you. Rog at SC Bitcoin sent 500 zaps. Said, so good to get a reasonable perspective on the core knots debate. Well, thank you. I think we did a good measured show
[00:44:13] Unknown:
there, don't you? I agree. Yeah. And to be honest, reason is the thing that's been missing from all of the the discussions. I sympathize with both sides. You know, we made very clear where our allegiances lie in the last show. But I can definitely see some of the points of the other side and just maybe not how they've gone about stating their points because Yeah. As soon as you start shouting save the children, like, you've just lost the argument in my book.
[00:44:37] Unknown:
You have. Yeah. Thank you, Rog.
[00:44:40] Unknown:
VMVD boosted a 160 sats. No comment. Thank you, sir. Pies. Hey. Chingity, ching. Do the 121
[00:44:48] Unknown:
sats. Salute mushroom fisting.
[00:44:52] Unknown:
Pow, please. Boosted a 100 sats and just said that was helpful. Well, you're very welcome. Thank you for boosting.
[00:44:58] Unknown:
You are welcome. CPOBV average Gary says all UTXOs are economically arbitrary until they are in a TX I'm creating.
[00:45:09] Unknown:
Yes. In other words, look after yourself, and Bitcoin doesn't care. Yes.
[00:45:14] Unknown:
Good point.
[00:45:16] Unknown:
Final one, not expatriotic with why have you done this? 0.010101010101. XMR. Props to Average Gary for running your libitcoin node.
[00:45:31] Unknown:
Ah, okay.
[00:45:32] Unknown:
Do you know what? I have no idea on the what it would take to run a libitcoin node. It's not something that I've ever looked into. Yeah. Maybe average Gary, if you're listening to this, which hopefully you are because you were the previous booster, drop us some links. Let us know about your experience. Was it easy? Was it hard? Could Max achieve it?
[00:45:51] Unknown:
That's like the bench testing, isn't it? It's like, is it retard proof? Could Max do it? Like, no. That's a bit it's like, okay. It's not quite there yet. Yeah. I'll be interested to know. Lip Bitcoin, that's, what's his name, isn't it? Eric Kate and not Eric Cason. No. Definitely not Eric Cason. Eric, Voskal Voskal. There we go. I got half of it right. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be interested to know a bit more about that because he seems to be one of the more reasonable measured types on those things. Like, he's he's one of the people that when I've tuned in and listened to him on a show or read what he has to say here and there, I'm like, yeah. You make a lot of sense. So Yeah. You live in the real world. Yeah. He does. He doesn't strike me as, like, a basement dwelling cunt. He seems to be someone you can, like, really sit with for a day and have a really good conversation with and lives properly, both feet planted. So I think if it is easy enough for me to try and run one, I'd be interested. I give it a go. Very good. Alright, Max. I'll hand the the direction of the show over to you now. Questions or updates and releases? Okay.
I'm gonna throw a curveball, actually. I'm going to first say thank you very much to BTC wrestle because he sent a load of sats out of one of his wallets that he was testing over to me to support the show so thank you very much. Yeah. You did DM me about this. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Yeah. I really appreciate that, mate. Not only you supporting the show with Sats, but also he has sent in updates. So cue the music, Robosats, six online Robosats coordinators, 38 public buy orders, 88,210 sets in book liquidity, 1,171 active robots. There's a 1.3% non KYC premium, and the twenty four hour contract volume is 0.2446 BTC.
[00:47:58] Unknown:
Sorry just to jump in, six coordinates is, a lot more than the last time I checked. That's pretty cool. Is it?
[00:48:04] Unknown:
I can't remember what it was last time. Pretty sure last time I went on there there was like two. There were six on last show as well.
[00:48:11] Unknown:
Okay. I wasn't paying attention there clearly. What did you say the book liquidity was? The twenty four hour contracted volume is 0.2446BTC. Wow. So it's like $20,000?
[00:48:25] Unknown:
More. It's like $30.35.
[00:48:27] Unknown:
Nice. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty decent. Please continue.
[00:48:31] Unknown:
Ashigaru, Whirlpool is up point three seven btc since last brief. So it's not $50,000 ish. Unspent capacity is 45.85 BTC. Unspent value is $5,290,000. Pools are they're a bit more evenly split now. 284 counts of 2,500,000.0 sats and a 155 counts of two of 25,000,000 sats. So that is all looking good. Bisc, twenty four hour volume is 0.1766 BTC. Seven day volume is 2.348 BTC. And then also, because we're talking about Bisc, we should probably talk about that mobile wallet, shouldn't
[00:49:22] Unknown:
we? We should indeed. Yeah. Let's hit the updates and releases then. That's a nice segue. I like it. Although, you have caught me out of order now. But let's talk about BISK.
[00:49:30] Unknown:
This is what BTS wrestles for. He comes in. He smashes everything up. You never know when it's coming, and it's gonna throw you off, and it just takes you out of your comfort zone. Just like pulls the pin out the hand grenade, locks it through the door, and then locks it.
[00:49:45] Unknown:
Just joking. We appreciate your input, BC Russell. Thank you for helping out. Very cool. Thank you. Yeah. Bisk. This came out of nowhere for me. I didn't even know they were working on this. I did. They now have an Android mobile application. More specifically, this is for Bisk Easy. So it's not gonna be the full featured in-depth trading platform that you can get on the desktop. I would imagine it will be enough for most people to get access to the global liquidity and get started with Bisk. Looks like a good looking app, actually. You've got the typical, dark mode with all the green secondary colors, very on brand for them. You can get it on the Google Play Store or obviously download it as an APK from their GitHub.
Some highlights here. It actually runs a BISK peer to peer node over the Tor network directly on your phone. Tor is fully integrated, so you don't need to dick around with Orbot. It has background sync. But if you do have version of Android that has kind of more aggressive battery management, it will automatically reconnect when you reopen the app. So just keep that in mind. I think Samsung's pretty bad for that if you are a Samsung user. They do address the when iOS question. The short answer is probably never for the obvious reason that I'm guessing this is probably never gonna get through the App Store. Yeah. The reason that they cite is that Biscuit is built in Java, which integrates quite easily with Android or not so much with iOS, which I believe is Swift. It would basically be like a full rewrite, which for a decentralized platform, I guess, or or project, is no mean feat when you're not VC funded.
But they did say, stay tuned. We're working on Bisc Connect, which is a companion app that acts as a remote control for your desktop or VPS hosted Bisc node, which also runs over Tor, and that will be available cross platform. I haven't had chance to download this yet, but looking at the screenshots, like, seems like they've done a great job in terms of keeping things as as clear, as simple as possible. You do have access to the global liquidity. You can choose, as you would expect, with all the usual offers on Bisk. You could choose your currency method, your amount, and your payment methods as well, depending on which side of the the trade you wanna be on, be it buy or sell.
And, yeah, looking forward to to having a play around with this one. Looks pretty
[00:51:53] Unknown:
cool. It does look cool. I'll just say there was a comment that did make me laugh. I saw this on Twitter. And then I saw underneath Tannehill. Nice. Now I can get my bank account closed whilst on the go without having to sit at my desk. It did make me chuckle. It caught me off guard, that one.
[00:52:15] Unknown:
I know it's, said in jest, but, again, just as a reminder, like, if you are gonna do peer to peer trading and you're gonna use some fiat banking rails, then make it a separate one so that Yes. You know, your life doesn't fall over if your main bank gets closed because you send some money to a peer that might be a a disagreeable one in terms of, you know, how your bank sees them. Yeah. Use the throwaway bank account. I have multiple we keep saying it, but it is like, as much as I laugh at that, it is a great Hibiscus is a great thing. You just have to, as you say, separate it out and
[00:52:45] Unknown:
reduce your risk a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. We released Envoy 2.1
[00:52:51] Unknown:
beta last week, now available for testing. Again, if you have your life savings on Envoy or you'll watch only of your life savings, you know, connected to Passport and you are not interested in testing them, wait for the main release. What main highlights here, this is more of a stability release where we did a lot of work on the magic backups, which is the automatic encrypted cloud backup for your mobile wallet only. So we've done some stability on the the restoration flow, incorporated and and made sure it was a bit more stable in terms of, like, additional metadata, like your node selection and your app settings.
Other minor things, I got graded the Flutter version, improved some fee selection when canceling transactions with RBF, added some additional Tor endpoints with the aim of improving or further improving Tor stability, which continues to to pain us particularly on iOS, and then loads of minor bug fixes as well. So, if you are interested in in helping us test, yeah, get involved. Just a reminder, the link in the show notes will outline the bug bounty reward program so you can earn some stats by reporting eligible bugs as part of all of our beta releases. So check the link in the show notes and, and get involved. Hold on. I should be a fucking millionaire then. Why did I not know about this before? You'd be retired by now. We have spoken about it on the show. It was a while back when when we actually released it, but, it is true of all of our beta releases.
Yeah. We offer a book by solution. I know ex patriots got involved with it a number of times as he's earned some stats off us. Nice. Okay. Okay. Max, Bitcoin Core version 30 has never released. Shill alert. Shill alert.
[00:54:25] Unknown:
You core shill. Max, is it dead? I think so. Yeah. I think it's time to just pack up and leave. Obviously, we are joking. And talking about satire,
[00:54:35] Unknown:
on Friday evening, the Bugle Boys held a a vigil, for Bitcoin's death on Twitter. It opened I can't remember which one of it them it was. I think it was Rob Palmer who opened with a full, like, two or three minute monologue on the death of Bitcoin. It's hilarious. And then basically everybody was just popping into the Twitter spaces and, like, reading their own eulogies of Bitcoin of what it did for their life while it was alive. Very, very funny lesson. Much needed to kind of lighten the mood after all of the shrieking that's been going on. And to be clear, no Bitcoin is not dead. Tell you what's weird as well. We've I've seen like lots of DMs and to my own account and to like the foundation account with people. There's been two kind of trade tips. Like, what should I do? And I get, like, some people want advice of people that they kind of see as more of an authority on the subject. So I kind of get that, but it's not up to me what node you run. Like, just, you know, do your own research and listen to the last show, look at the people and how they're talking about the different implementations and, yeah, just make your decision based on that. But then the other one, there's like basically people baiting Bitcoin companies to be like at Swan Bitcoin or at Foundation or at Blockstream. What node implementation are you gonna run? And then if there's any indication that they say anything other than Bitcoin not or that they are gonna update to to version 30, then they then get publicly shamed to be like, like, never use this company. They are shitcoiners, and they're I've not even seen that. Oh, it's embarrassing.
It's it's completely embarrassing.
[00:56:12] Unknown:
If you just either didn't respond or you said, I'm just I'm not gonna update for a while. I'm just on call one or whatever, like, a few versions back, then that's a bad thing? Like, that's the you're attacked for that? Essentially. Yeah. That's mental. Yeah. Well, these people are deranged to me. They're just not on planet Earth. I thought it was very accepted to be like, you don't really need to rush out an update. You can wait a while. You could wait six months. You could wait a year. You could wait two years. Most of the time, it's not gonna be a problem, and that would be a much more conservative and reasonable approach, especially as a company, unless you need to do something that the new software allows or whatever or, like, it's gonna make a big difference to something you're doing. Like, that would be a reasonable approach.
[00:56:58] Unknown:
Well, like you say, not everybody is all there speaking about, outrageous engagement at the end of the day, and and people thrive off it. That's true. Next on the list, cool little tool that I saw I came across on Nosta called the Bullish Decoder. Bit of a weird name considering what it does, but pretty cool nonetheless. It's a progressive web app to decode all the things. Very occasionally, if you're a slightly more advanced user, you might want to decode a lightning address or a lightning invoice or a bolt 12 offer, or it also does Cashew tokens as well. Basically, you can just paste in any of the above and it will give you all of the information that is gleamable from that piece of information.
So it can be useful, especially if you're doing some troubleshooting on your own node, maybe your own lightning node, or you wanna see what's actually encoded within a Bolt 12 offer or something like that and which node it pertains to. Yeah. Just a cool little tool. It looks like somebody's just five coded it, which is pretty cool. Obviously, be mindful. You know, if you're pasting addresses in from your own node or something like or invoices from your own node, there might be a privacy trade off there. So just just be careful. You know, use VPN or have no idea whether it's access once or I doubt it. But it can be a cool little something for you to bookmark in case you might need it one day. Nice. Next on the list, mister Roar, who's been asked it again. Sparrow version 2.3 has been released with send to silent payments, pay to DNS addresses, and min fee rate from server. I am gonna have to click another link now to see what that last one is.
Oh, support creating transactions with the minimum relay fee rate set by the connected server or configured by the user. So, basically, if you connect Spiro to a node that allows you to do sub one sat per byte transactions, then you can now do that from within the Spiro UI so that you don't need to overpay. Because as we know, sub one sats per byte summer is here, even though it's not summer anymore. So yeah. He's, Craig's just aligned in the UI with what's actually possible on the blockchain now where people are doing essentially nearly free Bitcoin transactions.
Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, the highlight here is, you know, being able to send to silent payment addresses. Like, that's very cool. I believe it's the first Bitcoin desktop wallet that has the support. Obviously, as we know, it's already in cake and some small wallets, maybe bulk Bitcoin. I think they might have it as well. So as we always say with these new tools and upgrades to Bitcoin, they're only as good as, you know, how well implemented or widely adopted they are. And I think it's safe to say that Spiro is the gold standard and the most adopted modern desktop wallet there is today. Yeah. So the fact that we've got this here and it now opens silent payments or sending to silent payments to all Spiro users is a very cool thing to me. So I'm very happy to see this.
And also, he's added support for sending to those bit three five three human readable names. So again, this is a fairly recent development. It's got very low adoption. What you can do if you own a domain, you can post like a text record with the domain registrar like Namecheap that basically with any bit three five three compatible wallets like Sparrow now. If you were to paste in max at ungovernablemisfits.com into to a compatible wallet like Spiro, it would ping that DNS server, and it would generate an address, a silent payment address, to be clear, I think. Pretty sure it is a silent payment address. Yeah. So rather than having to paste copy paste anything, if I know I'm gonna pay you with Inspiro Max, I can just have you in my contact list and say, you know, pay to [email protected], and, Spiro will do all the resolution and just automatically populate the address as well. Very nice. Love to see it. Great work, Craig. There's loads of other stuff as well. Loads of bug fixes, dependency upgrades, and stuff like that. But those are the the two highlights.
Next on Melissa, I just wanted to highlight a new wallet that I stumbled across over on NOS that I've never heard of before. And I'm guessing you may not have either, Max. It's called Layers Wallet. Layers with a z Right. Or a zed depending on which side of the pond you live on. It's a mobile wallet for beginners, essentially. It's still in alpha at the moment, so I'm reluctant to say that it's for beginners because you might get wrecked and lose all your funds. This is a a hot wallet that's very new. It's in alpha, so please be very careful. The reason I'm highlighting it is number one, has a great and nice simple UI. But the main reason I'm highlighting it is that it has support for ARC, Spark, Lightning, Onchain, and then a couple of other weird shit that I've never heard of, like Botanix and Rootstock, which I know zero about. I believe they're air quotes layer twos of some shape or form. Oh, Oh, and it also has liquid as well. So it's kinda like a an all things to all people wallet with a simple UI. So I'm keen to see how this one pans out. It was the ARC one that kind of spoke to me really, you know, piqued my interest and said, oh, you know, I might wanna download this a try. So haven't actually done any transactions with it. I've set a wallet up and poked around a bit. It's just got a nice simple UI and it's ARC compatible. So when I find another ARC compatible wallet, I will, test send in and receive and back and forth to see what the user experience is like. But, just wanted to to let the government know about it. Next on the list, Samurai Dojo version 1.28.
A notable changes here, they have upgraded Dojo to include Fulcrum Indexer version two, which we spoke about one or two shows ago. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They've upgraded to two point o. So if you run the kind of vanilla Dojo, then you now have Fulcrum available to you. And then just loads of dependency updates onto the BTC RPC Explorer and a couple of minor fixes there as well. Very nice. Last on the list, Nunchuk version 1.73. Minor release bug fixes, but I just wanted to highlight because we mentioned this previously when we talked about MiniScript and that it was a bit fragmented. Yeah. They're locking out of the phone. Yeah. Was that there was some incompatibility between the the various miniscript wallets, like Liana descriptors didn't work in Nunchuk and vice versa.
Well, this release adds Liana descriptor support into Nunchuk, which presumably means that you can recover your manuscript wallet from Liana into Nunchuk, which again, increasing the compatibility and can only be a good thing. Yeah. Very good. Alright. So we sign off with the questions? Yeah. First one comes from mister Rod Palmer, and he asks I'll give you this one to answer first, Max. What is your favorite plebslop? Are you familiar with the with the term plebslop?
[01:03:28] Unknown:
I'm familiar with the term. I don't know. I'm not I'm not tuned in enough to know. What what's your favorite plebslop? The obvious one for me is all of the the not proponents
[01:03:37] Unknown:
running around screaming, see, Sam, at the top of their voices. Like, that's that's it for me. Plebsmall.
[01:03:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Okay. Probably that. I know Rob Palmer's a a fan of that one as well. That's his favorite. I sort of don't see that much because I'm not engaging on Twitter that much anymore. Like, I had a little bit, but I don't get my daily dose of Plebslot. Maybe I need to up my, Plebslot game. Yep. You gotta get your, forty hours of Plebslot a week.
[01:04:08] Unknown:
Next question comes from Vibrant on Nosta. He said, thoughts on Sparrow now having sent a silent payments functionality and maybe your guys' opinions on silent payments versus pay names. Well, we've just covered the Sparrow thing. Opinions on silent payments versus pay names. I'm actually gonna read the next question as well because it's very similar, and then we can answer it together because the next question comes from bit are you is? How would you say that, Max? Bit are you is? Bit are you is? Yeah. Bit are you is. They said, do silent payments have a future and why not?
[01:04:43] Unknown:
So loaded.
[01:04:45] Unknown:
Yeah. I actually commented back to say, wait. Did you mean do they have a future? And if not, why not? And he was like, no. No. I meant why when?
[01:04:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Brilliant.
[01:04:54] Unknown:
Okay. So yeah. Well, let's answer both of those questions. We'll cover the spire a bit. The comparison. Well, do they have a future? I think, yes, probably, because there seems to be, rightly or wrongly, more of an acceptance of them as a concept compared to Bit 47. I think some of that is probably due to politics rather than a technical solution. Although there are some pros and cons or pros, I guess, of silent payments versus Bit 47 and its current guys as to how it's implemented, which, again, we'll get into in a second. I think it's a very strong signal that somebody like Sparrow has has added spending support for it. How widely it gets adopted with the rest of the the network is probably gonna take a lot longer than anybody anticipates as is always the case with any technical development. I think you'll agree, Max. Mhmm. Does it have a future? Yeah. I I'm fairly positive on it. I guess maybe a quick recap for for for those that are like, what fuck is silent payments? It's a privacy upgrade to Bitcoin that allows you to receive payments basically via a single reusable static address.
But it does so in a way that if you receive multiple transactions to the same static address, those transactions are not interlinked on the blockchain. So it, you know, allows you to receive from different people privately I say privately, in a manner that means that you don't have to interact with them. You can just have a QR code or an address in your Twitter bio.
[01:06:22] Unknown:
Rather than reusing the same address like a a standard address, you can Exactly. Have it. Yeah.
[01:06:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Silent payments, they don't require any direct sender receiver interaction. Like I say, it's just sender, scan the QR code, or enters your silent payment address. The compatible wallet does all of the magic under the hood to generate an Taproot Bitcoin address, a traditional Taproot address, which the Bitcoin is then sent to. I guess, at a high level, quick, like, one, two, three step how it goes. Your receiver will publish a static payment address again. Twitter bio, website, wherever it is. It's a similar looking address. It's just got the prefix s p one, maybe a q as well, or s p one. The sender uses the receiver's scan public key and one of their own inputs that they're gonna send to compute a a shared secret via basically cryptography magic, which is way above my head. And the sender then hashes that secret with the transaction data, which creates what we call a tweak, which is then added to the spend public key. This is getting way too technical. But, basically, it generates a unique Taproot output known only to the sender and the recipient so that only those two are kind of aware of the transaction.
And then on the receiver side, the receiver's wallet basically has to scan the blockchain using their I think it's called a scan private key, which app will then check all of the available outputs since the last scan to check whether any of them are kind of part of their own wallet. Mhmm. The pros, I guess, obviously, no address reuse, and there's no output linking, at least in the first instance. I say that because, obviously, it's still a Bitcoin output. So if you've received a 100 transactions to your silent payment address or addresses derived from your silent payment address, what you do with those afterwards can be impactful to your privacy. Mhmm. And going back to the pros, obviously, you know, super convenient, perfect for donations or static QR codes on websites. You don't need any interaction.
Yeah. It just produces a a typical Taproot output that looks like any other Taproot output in any other Bitcoin transaction. The main con really is the scanning overhead. So So I think I I briefly mentioned it before, but basically receivers have gotta scan the blockchain in a slightly more resource intensive way to kind of compute. It's not just a case of, you know, my wallet, talk to my node. Here's my list of addresses. Go and look for any transaction about those addresses. It's more in-depth than that because there's computation required from I wouldn't even dive into it because like I say, it's above my head, but there's more computation required to work out. Okay. There's an output. Is that mine? Can I spend that? And then you have to do some computation to to work that out. That's I think, initially was the kind of impact of that was overblown because most people should be running their own node anyway. But for those that are not running their own node, improvements are being made at the kind of index level to kind of optimize these types of things. So for somebody like kWallet, they're actively working for solutions to kind of mitigate the impact of all of this scanning that takes place. So I'm quietly confident that will become less of a of an issue, but it remains, you know, I guess, an unfixed problem or or something to be aware of when you're interacting with with silent payment is that basically if you're a receiver with silent payment, you just might have to open your wallet and just do a bit of a longer scan. I'm sure the Monero fans who listen to this will be no stranger to that. That's the main con really other than the fact that it's not as widely adopted yet. While I guess you could also argue that the only output or supported output type is Tapu.
So you can't hide in that big crowd of native Segwit addresses, which, you know, form the largest part. And obviously you can't do any multisig stuff with this either, I believe. Mhmm. So, yeah, I'm quite bullish. I think that it will continue to gain adoption. It seems to be well thought of by the influencer crowd, which whether we like it or not, tend to do quite a little bit for adoption over the years. So, yeah, we'll we'll see. I guess anything to chime in on there, Max?
[01:10:19] Unknown:
Not really. Other than it's one of these divisive topics. Again, like the knots versus core thing. I see often like silent payments versus bit 40 7 and like people on either side and this kind of stuff. And to me, I kind of look at this as like they're both good options. I use Bit 40 7. I've used it for a long time. I like it. I've honestly, I've never used silent payments. I think I tried to do it once. I had a failure. This is, like, a long time ago, early days, and I haven't really done anything with it since. But on the face of it, I look at it and just go, well, they're both good in different ways, and anything that helps people not reuse addresses and has the potential to give more privacy is good. I don't know technically which one I would choose if I could wave a magic wand. I just think if one's used a bit and one's used a lot and whichever way around it is, it's still better than not having them. That's my kind of view on it all. Yeah. I can go a bit deeper on the the comparison side of things, I guess, between Bit 47 and and sign up payments. Bit 47
[01:11:26] Unknown:
requires
[01:11:27] Unknown:
Notification
[01:11:28] Unknown:
transaction. Yeah. Notification transaction. Now in the current implementations like Ashigaru or I believe Spiro still has it, that is done on chain. So it's an extra fee, albeit it's almost negligible at the moment, the fee. It is an extra transaction that is takes time and effort and a small cost to create the setup and generate the shared secrets, which are then stored in our on the blockchain. Whereas silent payments just don't need that. Like, if I wanna pay you once and once only, Max, I just send you one silent payment and that's it. So I guess you could argue that Bit 47 is better suited to recurring relationships maybe, or it's more applicable to recurring relationships.
I guess you could argue that so silent payments is just that there's one less transaction to do. Mhmm. I will caveat that by saying it doesn't necessarily have be an on chain transaction, that notification. It could be somewhere off chain. It's just that all of the active implementations have only ever used an on chain transaction to establish that. You could argue that there is a pro to it as well as a con. Obviously, the cons are the cost and the time it takes to do it. But the pro is that, as we know, the Bitcoin blockchain is immutable, very difficult to change so that you know it's always gonna be there when you need to call upon it if you need to recover your wallet or something like that. Like, it's there. You just your wallet with the private keys references all of these previous notification transactions, and that's how you recover all of your previous Bit 47 transaction history and and outputs from that. So could argue it's a feature in our book depending on how you wanna look at it. I guess keeping on the topic of the notification transaction, that can leak some metadata just because you've gotta use one of your UTXOs to establish that connection. And then depending on which UTXOs you then use to make the actual payment once the notification transaction has been established, that could also leak some metadata between sender and receiver, which you may or may not want to do.
Again, I think sometimes when people talk about this, the the impact is overblown. But, again, it's something worth considering that you don't have to worry about with silent payments. Bit 47, I guess, because of how it generates the addresses, it requires less blockchain scanning, which as we've established is one of the main downsides at the moment of silent payments, which requires that continuous blockchain scan every time you open it because it, you know, it has to look at all of the transactions that have or outputs that have been created since the last time I did the scan to check that it isn't there isn't any outputs out there that belongs to this wallet. So that will be a pro for the the Bit 47 account at the moment as well. I think that's about it, really. They are very similar. The main differences for me to summarize would be silent payments doesn't have that setup transaction.
[01:14:05] Unknown:
But silent payments does require that more active scanning, which I believe is not that big of an issue. But on the other side of it, some people might say that it is an issue, and then you might say that, well, how does that scale if it's used a lot? Or, like, how much of a burden does that computation become? And is that something that the average person can run on their hardware and blah blah blah? I don't know. Like, way above my head. Don't know. But like I say, I just Yeah. The fact that both options are out there and people can use them is better than not having the options. So for me, that's a win. I'm, like, I'm happy that they're both out there. Agreed. Alright. Next question comes from Zikebuoy
[01:14:43] Unknown:
on Nosta. What happened to the usual 30% dips? Has the caliber of the current crop of Bitcoin has been watered down by tosses like sailor, or is it a millennial disease? Can someone please get to the depths and stand in front of each other so we can bash their heads together like what we used to get in the old days in it?
[01:15:05] Unknown:
I presume he sent this before, what was it, a couple of days ago? We had like a 10 or 15% drawdown in a day. I think he sent it this morning because I only I only asked this morning for questions. But,
[01:15:15] Unknown:
yeah. I mean, I don't understand why he's moaning about small dips. I mean, I welcome not having to, you know, see my net worth go through multiple hurdles.
[01:15:24] Unknown:
I prefer this. I guess what you might be getting at is, like, why are we not having these dips? Is it because institutions are, again, to use the cliche, buying the dips so that they're less harsh, maybe? I have no idea. I think we are having the dips. I think we are having the dips. I don't think, like we've had a few recently. We had that whatever it was, 15% the other day. We had four or five months ago, we suddenly went from, like, a 120 down to, like, 75. I don't know what that is as a percentage, but it's quite a lot. That's gonna be at least 30% more. So we are having them. I just think what I've seen since I've been involved is you have, like, it jumps around for a while, then you have a sort of bull runny sort of thing, and then you have this big 80% or there or thereabouts massive long bear market and then a sort of sideways recovery, and then it goes again. So maybe, like I don't know when that comes or whether it comes again, but that's what it's always been. So maybe we just have to wait for them. Like, it will come. I'm sure. In time, it will come.
[01:16:29] Unknown:
I was gonna say the same thing. No. Alright. Final question comes from a friend of the show, Rev Hoddle, on Nosta. He said, it seems like 25,000 sats is the standard minimum for lightning submarine swap services. Are there different services essentially just using bolts and that's why the minimum is so consistent? Yes. Moon Wallet is the only wallet I've found that can do submarine swaps with essentially no minimum. Are there any other swap services that have no minimum? I'll let you tackle this one first. Doesn't Moon use bolts on the back end? I don't believe they do use bolts. I think they might do it themselves.
[01:17:08] Unknown:
Okay. Okay. Well, I don't really know. I've had lots of problems with it, to be honest, with swaps. I would say Moon is really, really simple in the sense that it just works. One big frustration I have with Moon, say you send in an on chain payment and you want it swapping to Lightning. Unless you spend all of the sats, you risk linking UTXOs and causing yourself some privacy harm. And to then send all, there's not a send all function in the wallet. So you have to just guess constantly. You're like, I'll try sending this much. It's like, oh, and it's like, I'll try sending this much, and then it's like, that's below the minimum unless I'm doing something wrong, which is possible. Let's let's be honest. Yeah. Like, that's below the minimum. You need to have this much balance for the, you know, the payment of sending it. So and I'm like, okay. I'll try a little bit less. I'll try a little bit more. I'll try and as a general rule, I have to, like, just guess my way through, like, four or five times before I can send a payment to send all.
And I think quite often you end up sending or paying more in fees than you have to because they're like, okay. That's kind of close enough. That's, you know, within a few 100 sats, so we just take the rest. So that's the one thing with that. I'm like, it would be really nice, and I'm not slating the service because the service is pretty flawless outside of that. But yeah, like a send all would be quite nice because on Bolt I've had quite a few failures where I've been trying to swap and send to another lightning node and things like that. And I've had quite a few issues, so I moved across to Moon. And I never used to have issues with Bolt, so I don't know what that is. I don't know what's going on with that. But just quite a few where I pay, and then an hour goes past and it's like, oh, this failed. You're like, oh, great. It bounces back and you just, like, sent an on chain transaction that now has to be sent to your recovery address. And so you've just paid some fees and, like, nothing's happened. Interesting. I didn't even know Moo was still a thing. I'd never hear anybody mention it. So it's interesting to hear you talk about it actually and the fact that it's still going. I guess with the current fee situation, like, Moon is thriving because
[01:19:18] Unknown:
for those that don't know, Moon is is an on chain wallet that masquerades as a Lightning wallet, and every single transaction is essentially a submarine swap between Onchain and Lightning that they facilitate for you in a very easy way to be clear. Like, that's how it gained so much popularity so quickly. Yeah. So in a low free environment, because it's everything's on chain, even though you are able to pay Lightning invoices, it works. But But as soon as fees get high, like swap services go through the roof because, again, it's still still on chain. So interested. Yeah. Didn't even know they were still going. That's cool. Raf, I want to answer your question about are most people using Bolts? Yes. I've had some great experience with Bolts. Like, I've used them regularly for personal stuff and for work stuff, and it's been pretty faultless for me. In terms of the 25,000 sat fee, I'm guessing that because of the way Boltz works, like, all of their swaps will have to lock up a certain level of capital for a certain amount of time. They'll have to manage liquidity and channels, and they also do liquid stuff. And I'm guessing that they just set that fee as, like, a minimum viable fee that they will attract as a percentage because that's how they typically operate to make each operation worth their while is my guess. I did have a quick look on their docs to see if they gave anything more concrete than that, but I couldn't find anything. So I'm just guessing it's just a case of this is the minimum amount of because if you do a 25,000 stuff swap on bolts, like, they're gonna earn next the fuck all on that. Yeah. Type it in and see. Like, they're getting a 125 stats for facilitating that. So, you know, it's not a lot for them versus the computational cost and the capital lockup cost and yeah. So so I I'm guessing that it's something to do with that. Although, I do believe let me just click around. If you see there's Rootstock again. Send an asset on Rootstock. What the fuck is alright. I I'm gonna put out a bounty here. 5,000 stats to the person that gives me the best explainer in the comments on Fountain or any podcasting app. What the fuck is Rootstock, and should I be interested in it? Anyway, if you swap from liquid to lightning, I'm not sure why you'd wanna do that, but you can. The minimum amount is 41 sats.
[01:21:24] Unknown:
I know why people do that. I've heard loads of people do it for privacy hop. I think they go Bitcoin, lightning, lightning, liquid, liquid out, some sort of thing like that. Or they do a thing where they get paid in lightning, but it does a swap through Liquid. It's like an extra hop. I've heard loads of people do it. Like, it's not just like a few. I've heard loads of people do it. I suppose it's good that it's there as an alternative because we've got wallets like Aqua now, which are Liquid native, but also speak
[01:21:55] Unknown:
Bitcoin and Lightning. So I don't know. If you find yourself in a position where you don't wanna use the swap service in in Aqua and you've got some funds on Liquid, then, you know, it's good that Bolt also offers that as well as a as a an independent third party. Although, you know, if I was a betting man, maybe Aqua's using Bolt's in the back end anyway. Probably. You never know. Probably. Probably. So you can get around it if you are a a liquid enjoyer. So answer the 25,000 SAP fee or minimum. I'm guessing it's just an operational cost minimum. Let there accept the happy to accept. Yeah. Makes sense. Oh, are there any other swap services that have no minimum?
[01:22:31] Unknown:
I am not sure. I don't know whether there's anything Cake Wallet that would offer a smaller minimum. Are you familiar with that, Max? I don't know. Do they use Trukador on the back end or something like that? I'm not sure with their lightning stuff. I think their lightning stuff is relatively unbilled out on Cake. Okay. I'm sure Steph said on the last time that they're still, like, thinking about how to do things and make it slick, but I've not used their swap for anything lightning. I can't think if you even can. I think you can pay a lightning invoice with other cryptocurrencies, and it will go through to Lightning. It does a swap on the back end with their new, like, pay anything.
[01:23:09] Unknown:
What do they call it? Pay all or something like that? We'll have to ask him on the next Freedom Debt Friday. That sounds good to me. Yeah. I I don't know whether Wallace so she would would do something as well. I know they speak on chain and off chain, and they also have that air code self custody option as well, which I probably should have put on the list because they now have spark support, don't they, which they're calling a self custody option. That's also discussion for Freedom Tech Friday because I know Seth's been Yeah. Looking at this sort of stuff. So,
[01:23:34] Unknown:
yeah, stay tuned. Yeah. Other than that, mate, I think we are at the end of the list. I think so. Well, thanks, everyone. Thank you for the questions. Thank you for the SATs and everything else. We appreciate you. And, yeah, we'll catch you on Friday. Alright. Thanks, guys.
[01:23:49] Unknown:
And we're back. We are back. Take two. Thankfully, we don't need to do the whole show again.
[01:23:55] Unknown:
You said remind me of this. Like, as you said it, I was that's not my fucking word. My memory is awful. I didn't have a pen and I was like, okay. Let's let's see how this goes.
[01:24:08] Unknown:
And that's how it turned out. We had a last minute submission via my Nosta note. Comes from Huxley on Nosta who asked the question just after we started recording. So hence me asking Max to remind me, but we both forgot. So here we are recording immediately after we just stopped recording the main show. Just for you, Huxley. Yeah. So you're you're welcome. Huxley asks, is it best practice to use Ashikaru terminal when sending corn to and from my Albi hub to preserve privacy, or is this redundant if I'm using non KYC Bitcoin?
Max, I know you're an Alby hub enjoyer, so I'll let you tackle this one first.
[01:24:46] Unknown:
Yeah. It's an extra step that can't hurt, I guess. And I guess you mean you're going from lightning to on chain, and then you're sending it to Ashigaru terminal to mix before using it on chain again. So, personally, I tend to if something's in lightning, I tend to keep it in lightning as a general rule and spend with those lightning sats generally. But if I was gonna go back on chain, then, yeah, I would mix again. If it's not k y c and you wanna keep your private thing, I'd probably do that.
[01:25:23] Unknown:
I think the question is simpler than the way you interpreted it. I think they're just asking, once they bought Bitcoin, do they need to mix it with Ashikara before they send it to our v hope to presumably send on the lightning network? I don't think they didn't mention anything about swapping back and forth. It's just a case of do they need to do a coin joint before they top up their AlbieHub essentially.
[01:25:41] Unknown:
Right. Right. Right. Okay. Sorry. I thought you were saying from Albie to, Ashigaru. Yeah. I would always personally say you should consider doing that and then opening a channel with post mix. That's what I've always done previously.
[01:25:58] Unknown:
That would be, I think, probably the safest thing to do. What about you, mate? It isn't gonna hurt. You're gonna get additional privacy from the person or entity that you're buying this non KYC Bitcoin from. That's the main advantage here is you already got a good start if you're buying no KYC Bitcoin because, you know, you're not on the list. But whoever you bought from can track those UTXOs. So using Ashigari terminal to give the UTXOs that you bought from that person a fresh start before you go into lightning will be additive. I guess it can't hurt if you're comfortable with the technical know how and the requirements to do that with Ashigari terminal. By all means, go for it. And, obviously, that you're comfortable with the fees as well because, you know, if you're doing this regularly, then you gotta take that into account, particularly if you're buying smaller amounts. Yeah. Because using Whirlpool is not free. There are costs associated with that. The other thing I would maybe consider as well to remove some hurdles, although you might be adding additional ones, if I don't know how you wanna look at this, is why not buy via RoboSats? You're already in the lightning network there. That way, this is up for debate, but you could argue that you remove the need to have any on chain footprint whatsoever, thus remove the need to use Whirlpool in the first place. Send me a DM, and I'll send you some reference on this. I've done a little write up on buying and staying within the lightning network to reduce your on chain footprint in a bit to preserve your privacy when interacting with Bitcoin.
Maybe Jordan quick reminder for you if we can add that to the show notes. That'd be awesome. Maybe worth exploring as well. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. So in summary, if on chain
[01:27:28] Unknown:
and you wanna have the privacy, probably worth doing, but there is a cost associated, like privacy isn't free, or you do it the other way, like you just said, straight into lightning. So you you're already in that ecosystem, and you don't have the on chain footprint. Good advice. Alright. Let's wrap it up, mate. Huxley, you're welcome for the additional little mini show. Yeah. Thanks for the question. Thanks for everybody that got involved. Alright. Adios. Bye.
[01:27:56] Unknown:
Before you go, mineinbox.i0 help keep your online presence hidden. They provide anonymous server hosting solutions, virtual private and dedicated servers, domain registration, and DNS parking. They don't require any of your personal information, and you can purchase using Bitcoin, Lightning, or Monero. No personal information required. None. Zero. Mineinbox.io. Stay ungovernable.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to queue. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable. It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling.
I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cake Wallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero. You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating.
And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Hola.
[00:02:45] Unknown:
That's so weird. I was gonna do that as well. What are you? I was literally just before we went live, you were counting down, and I was like, I need to pick a language to say hello in. I was like, well, we're gonna talk about Madrid, so I'm gonna say hola.
[00:03:01] Unknown:
We've been recording together for too long. We have, mate. Was it good in Madrid? Was it everything you'd hoped for?
[00:03:07] Unknown:
Honestly, it was excellent. Both the city, the people, and obviously the conference as well. One of the most enjoyable ones I've had for for quite a while. We've said for a while or I've said for a while that I like the smaller ones. They just feel there's a a lot more of a community aspect. There's a lot it's a lot less corporate. And, yeah, Spanish Bitcoin is all of my assumptions were confirmed in person. They're just fucking based. It was so cool getting to meet quite a handful of NIMs that I've spoken to for for some of them, like up to like four or five years, if not a little bit more online. Getting to meet them for the first time, mixing with them in the in the privacy circles online for for quite some time. So it was wonderful to get to share a beer and and shave their hand. So they know who they are. I won't name drop anybody, but, yeah, it was it was fantastic to meet people. We sold out our passport calls on day two, really well received. We had a small booth there. It felt like a little bit of a spare part of the booth at times because obviously Madrid is in Spain and people wanted to talk in Spanish. And You've got the hola. Uno cerveza por favor. Yeah. That's that's about the top and bottom of it.
After that, if you ask me to talk about anything, let alone technical Bitcoin terms in Spanish, It goes downhill pretty quickly. So there's a few funny moments where people will come up to me, and I don't I don't think I look particularly Spanish. And, they'll just start speaking in Spanish. I actually would in Spain. Like, I'm not throwing shade here. Like, I'm in their country. And, there's just, like, this horrible moment where I look back at them, and then I look across to my colleague who can't speak Spanish because he is Spanish and be and he's like, oh, yeah. That guy's English. He's like, I'll help you. So, it's quite funny. That guy's on long. I don't fucking bother. Just Yeah. Yeah. We just drafted him in. We're just gonna throw him on stage off for the one English talk that there was. But, yeah, good fun. Really good fun. Did manage to get a little a few hours, of exploring
[00:05:00] Unknown:
around the city as well. Yeah. It was excellent. Really good trip. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. What else has been going on in the Bitcoin world then? Something I saw the other day that was tweeted, it looks quite interesting, was this cloaked wireless thing. And I haven't, like, dug into it. I think I know what it's about, but tell me because it looks pretty interesting.
[00:05:23] Unknown:
Yeah. So so cloaked wireless, their website, if you wanna check it, obviously, it'll be linked in the show as well. Cloakedwireless.com It's basically just like a privacy preserving phone plan operator. They are a company that's they're under the same umbrella as some of the the investors that we've got in Foundation. And we've kind of collaborated so that when you purchase a Passport Prime or a Passport Core and you use the code cloaked at checkout on the foundation website, you're gonna get a free month plan, which is worth depending on which plan you use, it can be worth up to $75 so that you can just try out the cloaked service. Very similar to Samsung or Link, etcetera. Yeah. Very similar where, you know, you can get a data plan, kind of a a no KYC data plan where you'll have a dedicated number. There's different plans, obviously, that you can kind of go and grab different amounts of speed or amounts of data. And I think all of their plans also come with SMS as well. I don't know whether they do voice plans. It might be worth checking on their website if that is a feature that you need.
Global? You put it anywhere? Or I believe it is global. Yes. Again, have a look through their docs just to confirm that. But, yeah, outside of this, obviously, you can pay in Bitcoin if you, you know, if you like the free month and then you wanna continue with it, you can do so a privacy preserving way by paying with Bitcoin. And Mhmm. Yeah. Just a a a good team behind them. I've I've got to know the two main guys behind the brand that is cloaked, and, they seem to have a a very kind of aligned ethos. So, yeah, it was a pleasure to get to work with them and give some freebies out to to foundation customers so that, you can have a little taste and see, if you like it. And just to correct myself, all of their plans also have minutes or, you know, voice plans as well. Okay. So, it is a very all encompassing package, and they they start at $25 a month, and they go right up to $75 a month. And to be clear, this coupon that you get free when you purchase a foundation product, you can use that on the most expensive plan as well. So, yeah, make sure you get your money's worth. So up to 75. Nice. Presumably, obviously, you can pay in Bitcoin, Lightning Absolutely. Anything else? Monero or not? Certainly can. I don't know whether they support Monero. Definitely Bitcoin.
I'm pretty sure Lightning. I'm not sure on any other cryptocurrencies Might be worth checking. Well, Lightning's good for doing that kind of stuff. If there isn't Monero and there's Lightning, I'm pretty happy with that. Yeah. Definitely. Worth checking out. Completely free, obviously, if you've purchased a an accompanying foundation product. But otherwise, you can get started for $25 a month as well. Very nice. Couple of other AOB bits for me. Been speaking to mister Nathan Day, and, he's given me a a a shell code for, Bitfest in Manchester, which is coming up next month, which is a a conference that he's helping put on. It's gonna be Nosta Talks. Obviously, Bitcoin Talks, and I believe there's like a Bitcoin art collective there as well. Oh, yeah. That's gonna be in Manchester. If you wanna get 10% off your ticket, you can use the code q and a 10 on the website that'll be linked in the show notes. To be perfectly clear, I get nothing back for that. It's just you get $10 off your ticket.
[00:08:27] Unknown:
Nice. The art class is that like chief monkey in that little group?
[00:08:31] Unknown:
Do you know what? I've not dove into the art side of things. Maybe but, Nathan, when you hear this, you can comment on whichever post you see this on or comment on fountain and and let us know. But I'm sure it will all be listed on the Bitfest website, which will definitely be linked to the show notes as well. Very nice. Final bit of AOB for me is more of a public service warning, I guess. We at Foundation became alerted to a fake Foundation website that won't be linked in the show notes, but it's something like foundationenvoy.app or something like that. Obviously, please don't visit it. It's a fake website.
They've done a a very lackluster job at cloning our website. Anybody who has visited our website at least once will look at this one and be like, yeah. They, they didn't put much effort into that. But I could see how it might look legit enough for somebody to, stumble across it if they're maybe, I guess, how do you put it, less digitally native to to kinda pick up on this sort of stuff. Basically and it just as a download button where it offers you a an desktop version of the Envoy app, which to be clear, does not exist. And, some of the engineers have actually done a bit of testing here with the in a in a virtual machine here just to see what happens. And I don't even think it actually downloads even a fake version of Envoy desktop. It just basically downloads an executable on your Windows machine that will then go install in all sorts of horrible stuff, probably key loggers, looking for seed word keywords in your file systems and private keys .txt and all that sort of usual stuff. So a reminder, just remain vigilant. Our website is foundation.xyz.
I'm sure if you looked hard enough, there will be similar clone websites for all of the the common wallets. So just be vigilant. If you're unsure, you know, reach out to somebody who's been in the space for a little bit longer and, you know, have them just say, you know, hey. Does this, download link or this download website, does it look legit? Is this where you would expect to come to get, you know, x piece of software? Yeah. It's always worth checking. So these executable files, they are just Windows. If someone did this on a Mac or did this on Linux or something like that, what would happen? Would it do anything? Honestly, don't know. I'd need to check with the engineers in in house at Foundation. They only mention Windows executable, so I'm guessing maybe nothing happens. But I suppose if the attackers were motivated enough that the malware might be smart enough to figure out what you're running and install the appropriate malware, I'm pretty sure it just affects Windows users, which if we're being honest, is probably the Windows user base is probably the most likely to fall prey to something like this. Yeah. I was just about to say That might be a sweeping generalization. That might upset some people, but it's a well founded, assumption to make.
[00:11:12] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that is fair. Okay. Well, yes, David. And also just ask if you're new, in the space, ask the groups, ask me, ask you, ask in the comment. It's better just to wait a couple of days or a week before making a move rather than making a move and fuck yourself. Yeah. 100%. What about you, mate? That was my a or b. Anything going on in your world we're talking about before we hit the news? Not really. It's all still fear, bullshit trying to drown me. I'm still, paddling away, kicking my legs, trying to stop going under. No. Actually, other than, I've got really excited with our Freedom Tech Friday conversation last week, and that's been just going through my head. I think that was one of our best ones. I really enjoyed it. I was, like kept, like, pinging through my head of, like, oh, I could do this. Oh, I could do that.
So it's really, like, grabbed my attention, I would say, more than most things have for a while because it's kind of you know, you got you got your Bitcoin set up, and you're just just like, okay. Well, this is kind of unless something major, I don't really do a lot of changes here, and you kind of get set in your ways to some extent. And, like, I can't be bothered to change unless there's gonna be a massive improvement. Like, there's no reason that I'm gonna be moving away from Sparrow, and there's no reason that I'm not gonna be using my passport. And I'm just kind of as I am. But this stuff, I'm like, okay. This is now fucking cool. So
[00:12:30] Unknown:
I'm excited about that. Yeah. It was an enjoyable one that I haven't forgotten. I I owe you a list of a shopping list, don't I? It's still on my, my to do list. Don't worry. Just while I remember, because it's just popped up, we've just had an additional question for the question section later on on Nosta. I've got it up on my phone, but it's not in the list. So when we get to the question page, just remind me there's an extra one on my phone. Okay. Okay. Into the news. First article comes from, of course, The RAGE. And it's, that I like the title. The US Treasury won't tell us how much Bitcoin it owns. The guys at The RAGE, I believe it was Lola behind this one, filed a a FOIA, freedom of information act request, asking them to disclose the amount of Bitcoin held by the US Treasury distinguished by Bitcoin seized and Bitcoin forfeited, which I thought was a a clever little addition to add to that rather than just getting a a lump sum of what they've got in their grubby little nits.
The request was made in light of a previous article that they I believe we might have talked about a couple of shows ago that revealed that the US Marshals Service, which is the agency which manages the government's forfeiture program, VIT, stolen, that then when they reported it, said it they held less than 30,000 BTC, which is miles away from the 200,000 that was previously advertised to be owned by mister Trump. Mhmm. So they've now had a response, basically. And, if I was to summarize, it, was basically on your bike. But, according to the the response, FOIA regulations require that the request describe documents in sufficient detail to enable us to locate the records without placing an unreasonable burden upon the IRS.
Because the FOIA is not intended to reduce agency personnel to investigators on behalf of the requesters or to allow requesters to conduct phishing expeditions through agency files. Jesus. That reads like it was written by a government official, doesn't it? Oh my god. But, yeah, basically, they've been told you're not having it because it's too much work for us to do it. Well, that was the guys that they've put this under. The initial summary was, your FOIA request is overly broad in nature, so we ain't doing it. Okay. This article signs off as a a new FOIA request has now been filed with the treasury for records of Bitcoin that have been forfeited to the US government. So they're getting a bit more specific now to see if they can get something out of them, which I thought was was quite fun. Very good. Very good. Poking the bear. Yeah. Indeed. Indeed.
Next on the list, I love this one. Again, from the rage, article will be linked in the show notes. Roman Storm has filed a motion for acquittal on all counts. Now anybody who pays attention to the show will be like, well, yeah, we can't undo this. We can happen because in fairness, on his verdict date a couple of months ago, he said, I think, unquote, this is bullshit and we're gonna fight it. And he stayed true to his word. Oh, it was back in August, it was. And, yeah, he filed motion for acquittal last week, maybe, or or the week before on all counts.
The defense is arguing that the statutes applied cannot withstand the scrutiny of the first amendment as the government would effectively criminalize the publication of decentralized software. Storm was discouraged from presenting a first amendment defense at trial as judge failure had found that, quote, the functional capability of code is not speech within the meaning of the first amendment. And that was in a a pretrial hearing. So, yeah, very happy to hear that he, you know, he's ponying up here and, fighting the man because, again, as we've said many, many times, it has potentially big ramifications for the the rest of the crypto industry. Not only us in Bitcoin as as much as we like to pigeonhole ourselves away from that dirty word crypto. Not on the show, obviously. But, yeah, huge ramification. So love to, see that he's fighting this. Another good quote here. Storm's conviction of conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitter was controversial from the beginning as numerous advocacy groups as well as Storm's defense argued that Tornado Cash did not qualify as a money transmitter as its developers never took custody of funds and therefore could never have engaged in the transfer of funds. Again, if you've listened to any of the previous briefs, you would have heard all of this before. So I don't know when, this will like, the follow-up hearing is gonna take place.
I am quickly scanning the article, but it's not mentioned here yet. This is a very long article by the way. So, yeah. If you're interested in the the follow-up to this, would recommend checking this one out. And as always, when we have future developments on this one, we will, make sure that we keep you guys updated. Also quick note to fabulous producer. Can we include the donation link to to an Edward Cash or to Romans Fund? Let's make sure that we signpost people to getting some funds into his coffers or his lawyers coffers to, you know, give him every possible chance of fighting this successfully. Love you, Jordan. Yeah. Definitely. Respect to him. And, yeah, love you, mate. Did did you like the little video of our Canadian overlord
[00:17:38] Unknown:
last week?
[00:17:40] Unknown:
I did. Yeah. If you don't know what we're talking about, go back to last week's freedom set Friday on Twitter or on YouTube and check out the the video right at the end. Max has done some incredible work, if I do say so myself.
[00:17:51] Unknown:
His little Canadian flag.
[00:17:55] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. It's good work. That it was good work. I am liking the the capabilities that, AI video production is, allowing us. Love it. Yeah. It's pretty incredible. I think mister Crown put it best. It was he said something like I can't remember how he said it. I'll paraphrase it. It must be good if Mac can produce something like this
[00:18:14] Unknown:
or something to that effect. Something like that. Yeah. It was very good. Thank you, mister Crandall. I appreciate that comment.
[00:18:22] Unknown:
Okay. Next item coming out of The UK. An individual named Yadi Zhang, not of British origin, as you would guess with a surname like that, has plead guilty in The UK to illegally acquiring $6,700,000,000 of Bitcoin. UK police now have possession of 61,000 Bitcoin that she stole in the largest cryptocurrency seizure in history. Zhang ran a massive scam in China between 2014 and 02/2017, defrauding a 128,000 victims and then subsequently stashing the proceeds in Bitcoin. Now obviously
[00:19:00] Unknown:
Wow.
[00:19:01] Unknown:
Defrauding 128,000 people, I'm never gonna get behind that. But at least they had the wherewithal to put it into something that's not gonna disappear over the course of, you know, ten or fifteen years through inflation.
[00:19:13] Unknown:
It won't disappear over ten or fifteen years. It disappears in one day when it sees Yes. When you get a very big, heavy knock on the door. Yeah.
[00:19:21] Unknown:
Oh. She later fled to The UK with false documents and tried to launder funds through property. Her lawyer says the victims can now be repaid, noting Bitcoin's rise means there are more than sufficient funds available. But reports suggest UK government may try to keep the Bitcoin Of course. Instantly creating the world's third largest national strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean, they're not that clever. They're gonna fucking sell it, aren't they?
[00:19:48] Unknown:
They're not even not that clever. They are so retarded it hurts. They'll do something like swap it for Doge when, like, after a pump of Doge because of something that, like, Elon has tweeted, and they'll pile in there. And then that will drop 80%, and then they'll sell that for something else. They'll they'll lose all of it. And then whatever's left, they'll send it to Zelensky's bank account. Yes. Oh, fucking it. How crazy is that, though, that one lady has inadvertently given the opportunity
[00:20:25] Unknown:
for a country to have the third largest Bitcoin reserve in the world. It's crazy, innit? That is mad. I'm sure China will have something to say about life. They've got people in their country that have been defrauded that are owed money. Like, can you see Keir Starmer standing up to president Xi being like, yeah. No. We wanna keep it. Like, that's not never gonna happen, is it? No. I can't think so. But I also can't think that they'd really care about, like, just normal no offense, but the type of people who get hit by these scammy,
[00:20:52] Unknown:
fraudulent, crypto bullshit stuff are generally not that smart, and they're generally not that wealthy as a general rule. So they're probably just people that, like, producing ping or whatever is anything they would fuck about. It's not even gonna cross his radar. True. When I was, quickly scanning a couple of articles relating to this story, what I couldn't find was what this the actual scam in China was that she managed
[00:21:16] Unknown:
to scam a 128,000 people. Well, you had a look to do. Yeah. It came across my radar because, obviously, the UK police had took custody of all the Bitcoin that she converted into, but I don't know what the scam in the first place was that she then put the proceeds into Bitcoin. What was her name? It was Yadi Zhang, y a d I.
[00:21:36] Unknown:
Zhang, zed h a n g. Here's a breakdown of what you need to know about Yadi Zhang, also known as Ximen Qian, and her scam. The scam was between 02/2014, 02/2017. In China, she ran an investment wealth scheme fraud that targeted more than a 128,000 victims. The scheme promised high returns often via investment agreements and used intermediaries, brokers, and promotional events.
[00:22:00] Unknown:
So it was a pyramid scheme?
[00:22:02] Unknown:
Yeah. But part of the pitch was involved in things like Bitcoin mining, elderly care, environmental protection, etcetera, the fraud proceeds, blah blah blah. So, basically, yeah, a pyramid scheme. Wow. Must be a pretty big one. Fair play. I mean, sometimes you look at these things, and, obviously, it's wrong. It's bad. But you look at the front on these people, and you're like, you're just a different animal. Like, what was that blonde lady that did the billion dollar like, she could take blood, but without taking blood, and it became, like, a massive multibillion dollar company, and she had literally no technology. It was all just a massive bluff. What was her name? They did a documentary on it. Oh, I don't know. Not heard of that one. She, like, looked a bit like Gollum. She had, like, massive eyes. She looked a bit fucking weird.
But, yeah, they're just, like, the front on these people. They, like, create companies and, like, this whole veneer of, like, people are like, oh my god. This is multibillion dollar huge thing. Oh my god. There were and then, actually, it's just some cunt who's just lying. They'll do nothing. It's like, you have to say, like, fair play. You've got some front. It's wrong, but wow. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:23:08] Unknown:
I don't think she's been sentenced yet, but I'd imagine with a whole lot big, it's probably gonna be a lengthy one. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Next on the list, something that's slightly more positive. I'm keen to get your take on this one because I know, most of the ungovernables are not the biggest fan of, mister Jack Dorsey. But, Not particularly. Personally, this is bullish. Square Bitcoin in their latest release have announced two very cool things. Number one, if you are a merchant and you use a Square terminal, of which I believe there's like 4,000,000 different merchants in The US alone that use the Square terminals. You can convert a percentage of every single sale automatically into Bitcoin so that you can build up your own company treasury if you wanted to.
You can go anywhere from 1% up to, I presume, up to a 100% if you wanted to. And that's all automatically so that you can, as a company, auto buy Bitcoin just by doing your day to day sales, essentially, just by running your business. But also the second item here, which is due to launch in November 10, a little under a month from today, you can accept Bitcoin payments automatically so that your customers can pay in Bitcoin, And you can choose to receive those in BTC or have them auto converted into USD so that, again, you can attract Bitcoiners to your store, but never have to touch a single set of Bitcoin in your entire life ever if you're only interested in dollars.
And in doing so, if you keep them in BTC, there are zero processing fees all the way through to the 2026 as a bit of a a hook into get people into this kind of ecosystem, and you start interacting with Bitcoin. I believe this is US only for now. Though I have seen a couple of tweets from Miles from the Square team that says they're already working on a global rollout, which presumably can't be that difficult because Square terminals are the same all over the world. I'm guessing that the hurdle is more of a regulatory one for them. So two very cool things. I think the second one is way cooler because I'm sure, especially our American listeners will know at least a handful of local merchants to them that use a Square Terminal. They're very common, particularly at more smaller outfits where I believe, again, this is gonna be turned on by default so that you can just go in, pay with Bitcoin. The merchant
[00:25:31] Unknown:
basically needs to know very little if anything other than the fact that they have this feature available to them and they get what they want at the end. They can either keep the Bitcoin or they can automatically switch to USD with zero fees. What do you think? Yeah. I don't trust Dorsey, but I think this is a positive. I'm trying to think where the negatives are. There there are some negatives, but as a general rule, it's a massive positive. Especially if people can go in and just pay without the merchant having to understand anything about Bitcoin, if it's just like, here's your bill, and you can just scan a QR code or whatever it is you've gotta do. Excuse the rain here, by the way, in the middle of a storm. If you can just do that, then that's incredible. It will also then introduce people to Bitcoin because, presumably, some of these merchants will be like, oh, okay. I'm not paying the fees that I would with a credit card, which is actually pretty significant. Exactly. Yeah. So that's a big one. And then on top of that, they'll probably over time be like, oh, shit. I switched it to US dollars. But look, if I'd have kept it, this would have been I would have a much better situation than I have now as a general rule over time. So that's generally quite a good hook. I guess my only concerns or potential negatives are, how does it work on payments in terms of presumably, it's just lightning rather than on chain, but that would be good to know because, obviously, that gives some layer of privacy. And can it be done from any wallet, or do you have to do it through Stripe or a fully compliant company? Like, can you just pull out
[00:27:00] Unknown:
your Phoenix wallet or Zeus wallet or whatever and just pay for your shopping like that? Yeah. My understanding so the last question is, yes, you'll be presented with either an invoice, a lightning invoice, or an on chain address. You can pay from any wallet. Like, I'm pretty confident that's the way that they're gonna head with that. And what was remind me what the first point that you made was?
[00:27:20] Unknown:
Fuck knows. Someone can tell us in the comment. Obviously, not that important. I think that's the main one. Like, can anyone pay Because you want it to be usable by everyone and not be looped into, like, a a KYC headache. So if you can do that, that's great. And if it can just be turned on and everyone can use it, the guy behind the counter doesn't need to know what they're doing, you can just pay, then I don't know. I think it's great. I I can't think of really a a a big negative there. I think that's a a big, big win if it happens. And looking at this from a merchant perspective as well, like, sometimes
[00:27:54] Unknown:
merchants can get scared by, like, tax burdens and things like that. But because this is literally a merchant tool, like, they've already said, look. All of the tax thing is all handled for you. So you'll depending on which way you do it, whether you're saving, whether you're spending, paying your bills in Bitcoin, or you've do 50 or anything like that, it's all gonna be handled from a tax perspective for you so that you just get one file at the end of the year. You just give that to your accountant. And then so to remove that headache is huge because I'm a strong believer that that is one of the main roadblocks for merchants not adopting Bitcoin. It's they're like, you know what? The user base is so small at the moment that I'm just it's not worth my time to go through that headache. To calculate the taxes on the 10 transaction, I might do it in a year.
[00:28:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Definitely. Oh, no. I think that's huge. It's just making it mainstream and easy, but doing it in a way that people who have been in Bitcoin for a while and wanna spend their Bitcoin can do that without jumping through so many hoops all the time, and that's a brilliant thing. I like it. I think it's really cool. So two final things for me on this one is number one, because the Square terminals tend to be
[00:28:58] Unknown:
used by medium to small businesses, like larger merchants will have their own custom stuff. Like coffee shops and stuff. Yeah. Exactly. But like mom and pop shops and things like that, they tend to use this type of solution. So not only will they push people to spend their Bitcoin, but it'll push them to spend Bitcoin in smaller businesses, which we all know are really feeling the pinch at the moment compared to the the tech conglomerates. And then the final point I wanna say is a bit more of a, let's not get too excited too quickly in terms of how well used this might be particularly in the short term because it's US launch it first. And any time that you spend your Bitcoin and it or exchange it for goods or services is a taxable event in The US for the person that's spending the Bitcoin.
Now I have my own thoughts on that, but we are public voices and I'm not gonna tell people to evade the law. So I'd imagine that most people are gonna be less forthcoming when doing this, or if they are gonna do it, then they're gonna maybe keep it quiet. Yeah. Well,
[00:29:57] Unknown:
obviously, we, you know, we've got our opinions on whether the taxes are legitimate or not legitimate and all that kind of stuff. But the truth is if you fuck with these things too much, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble. And so Mhmm. Just everyone should be careful is all I say. The fact that it is on the Lightning Network and you're spending from a Lightning Wallet as a payment to the little you know, you see these things in, like, you know, these little pop up coffee vans that are like Yep. You know, a repurposed old truck or whatever, and it's like that type of stuff where, like, you're spending $5 or $10 and just it's those types of things. I'll just say, I think that's a very good way of like redistributing, getting Bitcoin into the hands potentially of these smaller business owners and entrepreneurs and people who, like you say, are feeling the pinch more. And if you wanna see it go anywhere, really, it's there, like, to the normal people, to the people who it might just click with, and they might just say, oh, this thing is actually pretty cool. This is pretty interesting. Let me take a look, and it might just help them and their families. So I think this is pretty cool. Yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to the case studies that could come out next year from Square to be like, oh, business x
[00:31:12] Unknown:
converted 2% of their daily sales into Bitcoin, and it's done this for their bottom line. And they are, as a small mom and pop shop, they are now 25% above where they would have been had they just took US dollars and stuff like that. I think that's gonna be a very powerful marketing tool. Obviously, very dependent on the Bitcoin price as is most things in in this industry.
[00:31:33] Unknown:
See, oh, yeah. This young entrepreneur, they started this coffee van. They've pulled their life savings into it. They they dropped out of their corporate job. They thought, no. I'm not gonna do this. It's it's this and the van life and Bitcoin, and it's gone.
[00:31:49] Unknown:
Yeah. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Yeah. Good. That's good news. Yeah. Remain measured on it, but, seems like a positive step in the right direction for a very big portion of the Bitcoin ecosystem because it's very American centric as we all know. Yes. All right. Next on the list, I thought this was cool worth a a quick mention. The guys behind Breeze come up with a new initiative called Time to Build. The URL is time, the number two, build.dev. It's a worldwide developer challenge to bring Bitcoin to the world's leading open source applications and services using the Breeze SDK. So, obviously, not for everybody. Basically, they've got, a number of bounties out for people to build cool shit that uses the Breeze SDK as kind of like the foundational layer here. It's very broad in terms of what you can build. But, yeah, there's a there's a good quote here. Moving value online shouldn't be limited to financial applications. Think bigger.
What if every app, every service, every platform could move value as easily as it moves information? That's the future you're building. Messaging and social apps that sends apps like a DM, real time tipping to content creators, musicians, and podcasters, or power crypto wallets with lightning. The possibilities are endless. So I'm excited to see what comes out of this. I think the prize is $25,000, but, it's split into three. Gold is 7,000 mid rank projects. Second place is 3,500, and then third place is a thousand dollars. I'm guessing there's multiple in each because that doesn't add up to 25,000.
Maybe if you're a budding vibe coder, then it could be a good way to to earn some Bitcoin here. Very nice. And the last news article we have is sadly a UK Bitcoiner that goes by Bitcoin Cookie, who I've, to be honest, I've never heard of before. No. They got hacked a couple of weeks ago and lost all of their Bitcoin savings. Took a while for the details to come out here, but it won't be a surprise for you to learn that the user had a hardware wallet and the hardware wallet was not hacked. The user clicked a malicious link, which led to their cloud stored seed being leaked to the wrong people by buying money gone, which is obviously, you know, a a horrible thing to go into.
I believe it was to the tune of a little over half a Bitcoin, which, you know, is like, what, $60,000 at the today's prices, something like that. Yeah. So he was using a ledger. There's absolutely zero indication here to say that the ledger was at fault. It seems as though I found one tweet maybe where he said that he used the cloud service where I presume his seed was stored. Whatever link he's clicked has given the hacker access to some of his services, particularly wherever he had his his seed stored in the cloud, which is obviously not a great idea at all. It's not the best to say. And completely defeats the point of having a hardware wallet in the first place. So Mhmm. Obviously didn't bring this up to kind of dunk on the guy. It's heartbreaking. I bring you up as a another stark reminder as to if you have a hardware wallet, then maybe don't keep your fucking seed on a cloud service. Keep it offline even if it is in a ledger. Yeah. Keep it offline and whatever you get sent, don't enter your seed words ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. There is literally never a scenario where you should enter your seed words into a website.
Never, ever. Not once. Even if your hardware wallet blows up in your hands and you really need support, they still will never ever, ever, ever, ever ask you to enter your seed words anywhere other than a hardware
[00:35:24] Unknown:
wallet. Yeah. They're the ones that seem to be the low hanging fruit and the things that people go for is just like, you know, click this link, and they'll try and you know, like, he's had it on the cloud, which is not ideal, and then enter your seed words, and you just see it. It's so shit. We give out the advice all the time, and and lots of other places give out the advice all the time, but it doesn't mean that those people are listening. Yeah. They're either not listening to any podcast or reading any articles or they're listening, but to some fucking chilling idiot who doesn't care about them or their privacy or security. And it's sad because you're just like, oh, mate. Fucking if it happens to you, you'd you'd be really fucking upset. So, yeah, stay vigilant.
[00:36:10] Unknown:
Again, this is absolutely not a dunk on the guy. I'm highlighting this to show that complacency literally will get you wrecked. This guy, I'm just looking at his profile now. He says he's a dev, a developer at the Bitcoin trading card game. So, like, this guy's clearly has at least some level of technical competency. Mhmm. And he clearly just got complacent because it's like, oh, you know, my seat's in the cloud. My cloud's never never gonna get hacked. Like, you don't have to be a fucking 40 IQ idiot to get wrecked by this. Clever people still do, and they do because they get complacent and they get comfortable. He's been on Twitter since 2018, so it sounds like he's done at least a couple of cycles Been around. And, unfortunately, should've known better. But, again, I'm not dunking on the guy. No. It's just that complacency is it will get you wrecked.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
I actually think smarter people in some ways are more likely to get wrecked. The people who are quite tech savvy and, oh, I use this for this and they're like, you know, everything's easy and, you know, that's encrypted over here. And, like, I think sometimes they trip themselves up more because, like, a fucking idiot like me is just, like, don't wanna deal with any complexity, hardware wallet, steal. That's it. Use one app. Because I'm scared because I'm I know I'm dumb. I'm like, I'm not smart enough for this clever shit and this and, you know, all this. Jump through that hoop and do it over here and whatever. I'm just like simple, simple, simple, simple, simple.
And I think fucking Luke Dash junior, he got, like, 300 hacks the other day. Prime example. Obviously smart, a bit weird, but he's, you know, he's not a low IQ fucking knuckle dragger. He's just a bit weird. You know a bit about computers and software and stuff. Like, you you you know some stuff, and you get 300 Bitcoin taken from you in theory. You know? So this is the perfect example of, like, so smart that you trip yourself up with your own brains.
[00:38:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. Just, again, stay vigilant. Yeah. Nothing more to say about it. No. Right, mate. Boosts?
[00:38:09] Unknown:
Yeah. Late stage Huddle with 6006¢. Brits eat spam question mark. Damn. Y'all are more like rednecks than I thought. I've always referred to spam as stuff posing as meat. I like that. That's very good. Stuff posing as meat, but it's good if cooked correctly in some fried rice or spam musubi. I don't know what that is. Which oh, which is like sushi, but with spam. Oh god. That sounds awful. It does. That sounds absolutely hideous. I guess Hawaii is halfway between Southeast Asia and the rednecks in the Southern United States, so it's a nice mix.
Thanks for your explanation of the knots versus core debate. I appreciate y'all as always. Well, we appreciate you. Thank you for your support and also letting us know what Masubi is.
[00:39:09] Unknown:
Yes. I've never heard of Masubi either. Before I read the next boost, was it late stage Huddle that said that he was held at gunpoint in Texas or something like that? Or was it one of the other regulars? Do you know what? My memory is terrible. I can't remember. It might have been late stage Huddle. It was one of them. Anyway, he got back to me on Noster, and I'll send you the link to it because it is a wild story. He gave me the story in the comments because Absolutely. I think we read the boost when we were live, and I said I can share that story. He responded to that show somewhere, and I'll send you the link. It's so funny. I'm pretty sure it was late stage title book. If it wasn't, you late stage title and I apologize to whoever it was.
[00:39:46] Unknown:
I'll look forward to that one. Chad Farrows. Sorry, mate. I'm stepping on your toes, and I really apologize.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
Chad Farrow streamed a whopping 2,700 sats. Thank you, sir.
[00:40:01] Unknown:
Thank you, Chad Farrow. Chet with 2,121 sats, English fags, Max is an undercover Nazi.
[00:40:09] Unknown:
You got me, mate. You got me. That's that's a pretty big insult these days.
[00:40:14] Unknown:
It's fine. I've got him on the show. He's coming on next week, so I'm gonna abuse that fucking retard when he comes on.
[00:40:22] Unknown:
That bearded oaf. He's got a good smile. He's got a great smile. One of the best Bitcoiner smiles I've ever seen. He's just Yeah. Always looked really happy.
[00:40:31] Unknown:
Yeah. He is. He's a happy guy. He's a happy guy. Shadowy super badger. Fucking hell. It's me, then it's you, then it's me, then it's you. Right. That's that's how it goes. I don't know what I'm doing.
[00:40:44] Unknown:
Go on. Shadowy super badger streamed 1,440 sats. Thank you, Superbadger.
[00:40:51] Unknown:
Thank you, mate. Open mic streamed 1,100 sats. Thank you, Open Mic.
[00:40:56] Unknown:
Tam Tam Bam with 1,021 sats. Great episode. I really appreciate your perspectives. It's so important to keep people's feet on the ground in the quote, church of Bitcoin. As the pie in the sky thinking built around a desire for a future utopia makes a lot of people in this space dislocate from reality of the big, bad world that exists. They're divorced from the fact that some dangerous motherfuckers are coming for them in their sovereignty, which makes them a danger to themselves and each other. Couldn't agree more.
[00:41:28] Unknown:
Great. Great boost. Thank you very much, TamTam Bam Bam. Nathan Day streamed 900 sats. Thank you, Nathan Day. I've not spent enough time with Nathan Day. I've only caught up with him a couple of times. One time, I was absolutely fucking blasted out of my face in Amsterdam, so I couldn't really remember it.
[00:41:48] Unknown:
And once with, once with Ben Gunn, but he's a good guy. He does a lot of good stuff in the space, and he supports us. So thank you back and day. He's got his finger in lots of pies. He he did message me the other day. Actually said he's been catching up with a load of our shows. So, thank you for streaming as well while you're doing so, sir. Thanks, mate. User three five two two one seven seven seven. Streamed 810 sats.
[00:42:09] Unknown:
Thank you. Rev Huddl. I wonder how long the feedback loop will be to determine the consequences of more node runners taking the configuration of their nodes into greater consideration. Seems like it could take a while before hindsight becomes twenty twenty. Thoughts? I don't know.
[00:42:32] Unknown:
I see where Rev Huddl's going with this. Maybe hindsight will become twenty twenty in, you know, a number of years. I don't know. I just think this whole thing is just a bit of a nothing burger and, like, this whole not split. Maybe they stick around because the dividers got too big and it sits at, like, 30% of claimed amount of nodes. Fine. Cool. Go for it. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. The main thing that just gets so tiresome is just the usual crowd just running around shrieking that Bitcoin's gonna die and that, you know, there's gonna be CSAM all over the blockchain and that we're all gonna get locked up because we're running those. Like, fuck off. Yeah. Just shut up. Bitcoin will keep being Bitcoin
[00:43:12] Unknown:
irrespective of which node implementation you run. We're gonna be fine. That's the attack in my personal opinion. The attack is divide and conquer, create a load of confusion, get people fighting, waste everyone's time with pointless arguments. That's the spam. It's the spam of our minds. It's like a constant spamming of useless shit where we could be thinking about more important things. That's my opinion on the whole thing. And I don't care what anyone runs. I couldn't care less.
[00:43:41] Unknown:
Agreed. And, yes, it was late stage Huddl. I had the wild story, by the way. I just found it in my, master mentions. So, yeah. Thanks for sharing that one. Very funny. For those that are interested, you can go and go through my mentions on master. It'll be on there somewhere. We all eat. Chat again. Stream 600 zaps. Thank you, sir.
[00:43:59] Unknown:
Thank you. Rog at SC Bitcoin sent 500 zaps. Said, so good to get a reasonable perspective on the core knots debate. Well, thank you. I think we did a good measured show
[00:44:13] Unknown:
there, don't you? I agree. Yeah. And to be honest, reason is the thing that's been missing from all of the the discussions. I sympathize with both sides. You know, we made very clear where our allegiances lie in the last show. But I can definitely see some of the points of the other side and just maybe not how they've gone about stating their points because Yeah. As soon as you start shouting save the children, like, you've just lost the argument in my book.
[00:44:37] Unknown:
You have. Yeah. Thank you, Rog.
[00:44:40] Unknown:
VMVD boosted a 160 sats. No comment. Thank you, sir. Pies. Hey. Chingity, ching. Do the 121
[00:44:48] Unknown:
sats. Salute mushroom fisting.
[00:44:52] Unknown:
Pow, please. Boosted a 100 sats and just said that was helpful. Well, you're very welcome. Thank you for boosting.
[00:44:58] Unknown:
You are welcome. CPOBV average Gary says all UTXOs are economically arbitrary until they are in a TX I'm creating.
[00:45:09] Unknown:
Yes. In other words, look after yourself, and Bitcoin doesn't care. Yes.
[00:45:14] Unknown:
Good point.
[00:45:16] Unknown:
Final one, not expatriotic with why have you done this? 0.010101010101. XMR. Props to Average Gary for running your libitcoin node.
[00:45:31] Unknown:
Ah, okay.
[00:45:32] Unknown:
Do you know what? I have no idea on the what it would take to run a libitcoin node. It's not something that I've ever looked into. Yeah. Maybe average Gary, if you're listening to this, which hopefully you are because you were the previous booster, drop us some links. Let us know about your experience. Was it easy? Was it hard? Could Max achieve it?
[00:45:51] Unknown:
That's like the bench testing, isn't it? It's like, is it retard proof? Could Max do it? Like, no. That's a bit it's like, okay. It's not quite there yet. Yeah. I'll be interested to know. Lip Bitcoin, that's, what's his name, isn't it? Eric Kate and not Eric Cason. No. Definitely not Eric Cason. Eric, Voskal Voskal. There we go. I got half of it right. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be interested to know a bit more about that because he seems to be one of the more reasonable measured types on those things. Like, he's he's one of the people that when I've tuned in and listened to him on a show or read what he has to say here and there, I'm like, yeah. You make a lot of sense. So Yeah. You live in the real world. Yeah. He does. He doesn't strike me as, like, a basement dwelling cunt. He seems to be someone you can, like, really sit with for a day and have a really good conversation with and lives properly, both feet planted. So I think if it is easy enough for me to try and run one, I'd be interested. I give it a go. Very good. Alright, Max. I'll hand the the direction of the show over to you now. Questions or updates and releases? Okay.
I'm gonna throw a curveball, actually. I'm going to first say thank you very much to BTC wrestle because he sent a load of sats out of one of his wallets that he was testing over to me to support the show so thank you very much. Yeah. You did DM me about this. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Yeah. I really appreciate that, mate. Not only you supporting the show with Sats, but also he has sent in updates. So cue the music, Robosats, six online Robosats coordinators, 38 public buy orders, 88,210 sets in book liquidity, 1,171 active robots. There's a 1.3% non KYC premium, and the twenty four hour contract volume is 0.2446 BTC.
[00:47:58] Unknown:
Sorry just to jump in, six coordinates is, a lot more than the last time I checked. That's pretty cool. Is it?
[00:48:04] Unknown:
I can't remember what it was last time. Pretty sure last time I went on there there was like two. There were six on last show as well.
[00:48:11] Unknown:
Okay. I wasn't paying attention there clearly. What did you say the book liquidity was? The twenty four hour contracted volume is 0.2446BTC. Wow. So it's like $20,000?
[00:48:25] Unknown:
More. It's like $30.35.
[00:48:27] Unknown:
Nice. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty decent. Please continue.
[00:48:31] Unknown:
Ashigaru, Whirlpool is up point three seven btc since last brief. So it's not $50,000 ish. Unspent capacity is 45.85 BTC. Unspent value is $5,290,000. Pools are they're a bit more evenly split now. 284 counts of 2,500,000.0 sats and a 155 counts of two of 25,000,000 sats. So that is all looking good. Bisc, twenty four hour volume is 0.1766 BTC. Seven day volume is 2.348 BTC. And then also, because we're talking about Bisc, we should probably talk about that mobile wallet, shouldn't
[00:49:22] Unknown:
we? We should indeed. Yeah. Let's hit the updates and releases then. That's a nice segue. I like it. Although, you have caught me out of order now. But let's talk about BISK.
[00:49:30] Unknown:
This is what BTS wrestles for. He comes in. He smashes everything up. You never know when it's coming, and it's gonna throw you off, and it just takes you out of your comfort zone. Just like pulls the pin out the hand grenade, locks it through the door, and then locks it.
[00:49:45] Unknown:
Just joking. We appreciate your input, BC Russell. Thank you for helping out. Very cool. Thank you. Yeah. Bisk. This came out of nowhere for me. I didn't even know they were working on this. I did. They now have an Android mobile application. More specifically, this is for Bisk Easy. So it's not gonna be the full featured in-depth trading platform that you can get on the desktop. I would imagine it will be enough for most people to get access to the global liquidity and get started with Bisk. Looks like a good looking app, actually. You've got the typical, dark mode with all the green secondary colors, very on brand for them. You can get it on the Google Play Store or obviously download it as an APK from their GitHub.
Some highlights here. It actually runs a BISK peer to peer node over the Tor network directly on your phone. Tor is fully integrated, so you don't need to dick around with Orbot. It has background sync. But if you do have version of Android that has kind of more aggressive battery management, it will automatically reconnect when you reopen the app. So just keep that in mind. I think Samsung's pretty bad for that if you are a Samsung user. They do address the when iOS question. The short answer is probably never for the obvious reason that I'm guessing this is probably never gonna get through the App Store. Yeah. The reason that they cite is that Biscuit is built in Java, which integrates quite easily with Android or not so much with iOS, which I believe is Swift. It would basically be like a full rewrite, which for a decentralized platform, I guess, or or project, is no mean feat when you're not VC funded.
But they did say, stay tuned. We're working on Bisc Connect, which is a companion app that acts as a remote control for your desktop or VPS hosted Bisc node, which also runs over Tor, and that will be available cross platform. I haven't had chance to download this yet, but looking at the screenshots, like, seems like they've done a great job in terms of keeping things as as clear, as simple as possible. You do have access to the global liquidity. You can choose, as you would expect, with all the usual offers on Bisk. You could choose your currency method, your amount, and your payment methods as well, depending on which side of the the trade you wanna be on, be it buy or sell.
And, yeah, looking forward to to having a play around with this one. Looks pretty
[00:51:53] Unknown:
cool. It does look cool. I'll just say there was a comment that did make me laugh. I saw this on Twitter. And then I saw underneath Tannehill. Nice. Now I can get my bank account closed whilst on the go without having to sit at my desk. It did make me chuckle. It caught me off guard, that one.
[00:52:15] Unknown:
I know it's, said in jest, but, again, just as a reminder, like, if you are gonna do peer to peer trading and you're gonna use some fiat banking rails, then make it a separate one so that Yes. You know, your life doesn't fall over if your main bank gets closed because you send some money to a peer that might be a a disagreeable one in terms of, you know, how your bank sees them. Yeah. Use the throwaway bank account. I have multiple we keep saying it, but it is like, as much as I laugh at that, it is a great Hibiscus is a great thing. You just have to, as you say, separate it out and
[00:52:45] Unknown:
reduce your risk a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. We released Envoy 2.1
[00:52:51] Unknown:
beta last week, now available for testing. Again, if you have your life savings on Envoy or you'll watch only of your life savings, you know, connected to Passport and you are not interested in testing them, wait for the main release. What main highlights here, this is more of a stability release where we did a lot of work on the magic backups, which is the automatic encrypted cloud backup for your mobile wallet only. So we've done some stability on the the restoration flow, incorporated and and made sure it was a bit more stable in terms of, like, additional metadata, like your node selection and your app settings.
Other minor things, I got graded the Flutter version, improved some fee selection when canceling transactions with RBF, added some additional Tor endpoints with the aim of improving or further improving Tor stability, which continues to to pain us particularly on iOS, and then loads of minor bug fixes as well. So, if you are interested in in helping us test, yeah, get involved. Just a reminder, the link in the show notes will outline the bug bounty reward program so you can earn some stats by reporting eligible bugs as part of all of our beta releases. So check the link in the show notes and, and get involved. Hold on. I should be a fucking millionaire then. Why did I not know about this before? You'd be retired by now. We have spoken about it on the show. It was a while back when when we actually released it, but, it is true of all of our beta releases.
Yeah. We offer a book by solution. I know ex patriots got involved with it a number of times as he's earned some stats off us. Nice. Okay. Okay. Max, Bitcoin Core version 30 has never released. Shill alert. Shill alert.
[00:54:25] Unknown:
You core shill. Max, is it dead? I think so. Yeah. I think it's time to just pack up and leave. Obviously, we are joking. And talking about satire,
[00:54:35] Unknown:
on Friday evening, the Bugle Boys held a a vigil, for Bitcoin's death on Twitter. It opened I can't remember which one of it them it was. I think it was Rob Palmer who opened with a full, like, two or three minute monologue on the death of Bitcoin. It's hilarious. And then basically everybody was just popping into the Twitter spaces and, like, reading their own eulogies of Bitcoin of what it did for their life while it was alive. Very, very funny lesson. Much needed to kind of lighten the mood after all of the shrieking that's been going on. And to be clear, no Bitcoin is not dead. Tell you what's weird as well. We've I've seen like lots of DMs and to my own account and to like the foundation account with people. There's been two kind of trade tips. Like, what should I do? And I get, like, some people want advice of people that they kind of see as more of an authority on the subject. So I kind of get that, but it's not up to me what node you run. Like, just, you know, do your own research and listen to the last show, look at the people and how they're talking about the different implementations and, yeah, just make your decision based on that. But then the other one, there's like basically people baiting Bitcoin companies to be like at Swan Bitcoin or at Foundation or at Blockstream. What node implementation are you gonna run? And then if there's any indication that they say anything other than Bitcoin not or that they are gonna update to to version 30, then they then get publicly shamed to be like, like, never use this company. They are shitcoiners, and they're I've not even seen that. Oh, it's embarrassing.
It's it's completely embarrassing.
[00:56:12] Unknown:
If you just either didn't respond or you said, I'm just I'm not gonna update for a while. I'm just on call one or whatever, like, a few versions back, then that's a bad thing? Like, that's the you're attacked for that? Essentially. Yeah. That's mental. Yeah. Well, these people are deranged to me. They're just not on planet Earth. I thought it was very accepted to be like, you don't really need to rush out an update. You can wait a while. You could wait six months. You could wait a year. You could wait two years. Most of the time, it's not gonna be a problem, and that would be a much more conservative and reasonable approach, especially as a company, unless you need to do something that the new software allows or whatever or, like, it's gonna make a big difference to something you're doing. Like, that would be a reasonable approach.
[00:56:58] Unknown:
Well, like you say, not everybody is all there speaking about, outrageous engagement at the end of the day, and and people thrive off it. That's true. Next on the list, cool little tool that I saw I came across on Nosta called the Bullish Decoder. Bit of a weird name considering what it does, but pretty cool nonetheless. It's a progressive web app to decode all the things. Very occasionally, if you're a slightly more advanced user, you might want to decode a lightning address or a lightning invoice or a bolt 12 offer, or it also does Cashew tokens as well. Basically, you can just paste in any of the above and it will give you all of the information that is gleamable from that piece of information.
So it can be useful, especially if you're doing some troubleshooting on your own node, maybe your own lightning node, or you wanna see what's actually encoded within a Bolt 12 offer or something like that and which node it pertains to. Yeah. Just a cool little tool. It looks like somebody's just five coded it, which is pretty cool. Obviously, be mindful. You know, if you're pasting addresses in from your own node or something like or invoices from your own node, there might be a privacy trade off there. So just just be careful. You know, use VPN or have no idea whether it's access once or I doubt it. But it can be a cool little something for you to bookmark in case you might need it one day. Nice. Next on the list, mister Roar, who's been asked it again. Sparrow version 2.3 has been released with send to silent payments, pay to DNS addresses, and min fee rate from server. I am gonna have to click another link now to see what that last one is.
Oh, support creating transactions with the minimum relay fee rate set by the connected server or configured by the user. So, basically, if you connect Spiro to a node that allows you to do sub one sat per byte transactions, then you can now do that from within the Spiro UI so that you don't need to overpay. Because as we know, sub one sats per byte summer is here, even though it's not summer anymore. So yeah. He's, Craig's just aligned in the UI with what's actually possible on the blockchain now where people are doing essentially nearly free Bitcoin transactions.
Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, the highlight here is, you know, being able to send to silent payment addresses. Like, that's very cool. I believe it's the first Bitcoin desktop wallet that has the support. Obviously, as we know, it's already in cake and some small wallets, maybe bulk Bitcoin. I think they might have it as well. So as we always say with these new tools and upgrades to Bitcoin, they're only as good as, you know, how well implemented or widely adopted they are. And I think it's safe to say that Spiro is the gold standard and the most adopted modern desktop wallet there is today. Yeah. So the fact that we've got this here and it now opens silent payments or sending to silent payments to all Spiro users is a very cool thing to me. So I'm very happy to see this.
And also, he's added support for sending to those bit three five three human readable names. So again, this is a fairly recent development. It's got very low adoption. What you can do if you own a domain, you can post like a text record with the domain registrar like Namecheap that basically with any bit three five three compatible wallets like Sparrow now. If you were to paste in max at ungovernablemisfits.com into to a compatible wallet like Spiro, it would ping that DNS server, and it would generate an address, a silent payment address, to be clear, I think. Pretty sure it is a silent payment address. Yeah. So rather than having to paste copy paste anything, if I know I'm gonna pay you with Inspiro Max, I can just have you in my contact list and say, you know, pay to [email protected], and, Spiro will do all the resolution and just automatically populate the address as well. Very nice. Love to see it. Great work, Craig. There's loads of other stuff as well. Loads of bug fixes, dependency upgrades, and stuff like that. But those are the the two highlights.
Next on Melissa, I just wanted to highlight a new wallet that I stumbled across over on NOS that I've never heard of before. And I'm guessing you may not have either, Max. It's called Layers Wallet. Layers with a z Right. Or a zed depending on which side of the pond you live on. It's a mobile wallet for beginners, essentially. It's still in alpha at the moment, so I'm reluctant to say that it's for beginners because you might get wrecked and lose all your funds. This is a a hot wallet that's very new. It's in alpha, so please be very careful. The reason I'm highlighting it is number one, has a great and nice simple UI. But the main reason I'm highlighting it is that it has support for ARC, Spark, Lightning, Onchain, and then a couple of other weird shit that I've never heard of, like Botanix and Rootstock, which I know zero about. I believe they're air quotes layer twos of some shape or form. Oh, Oh, and it also has liquid as well. So it's kinda like a an all things to all people wallet with a simple UI. So I'm keen to see how this one pans out. It was the ARC one that kind of spoke to me really, you know, piqued my interest and said, oh, you know, I might wanna download this a try. So haven't actually done any transactions with it. I've set a wallet up and poked around a bit. It's just got a nice simple UI and it's ARC compatible. So when I find another ARC compatible wallet, I will, test send in and receive and back and forth to see what the user experience is like. But, just wanted to to let the government know about it. Next on the list, Samurai Dojo version 1.28.
A notable changes here, they have upgraded Dojo to include Fulcrum Indexer version two, which we spoke about one or two shows ago. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They've upgraded to two point o. So if you run the kind of vanilla Dojo, then you now have Fulcrum available to you. And then just loads of dependency updates onto the BTC RPC Explorer and a couple of minor fixes there as well. Very nice. Last on the list, Nunchuk version 1.73. Minor release bug fixes, but I just wanted to highlight because we mentioned this previously when we talked about MiniScript and that it was a bit fragmented. Yeah. They're locking out of the phone. Yeah. Was that there was some incompatibility between the the various miniscript wallets, like Liana descriptors didn't work in Nunchuk and vice versa.
Well, this release adds Liana descriptor support into Nunchuk, which presumably means that you can recover your manuscript wallet from Liana into Nunchuk, which again, increasing the compatibility and can only be a good thing. Yeah. Very good. Alright. So we sign off with the questions? Yeah. First one comes from mister Rod Palmer, and he asks I'll give you this one to answer first, Max. What is your favorite plebslop? Are you familiar with the with the term plebslop?
[01:03:28] Unknown:
I'm familiar with the term. I don't know. I'm not I'm not tuned in enough to know. What what's your favorite plebslop? The obvious one for me is all of the the not proponents
[01:03:37] Unknown:
running around screaming, see, Sam, at the top of their voices. Like, that's that's it for me. Plebsmall.
[01:03:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Okay. Probably that. I know Rob Palmer's a a fan of that one as well. That's his favorite. I sort of don't see that much because I'm not engaging on Twitter that much anymore. Like, I had a little bit, but I don't get my daily dose of Plebslot. Maybe I need to up my, Plebslot game. Yep. You gotta get your, forty hours of Plebslot a week.
[01:04:08] Unknown:
Next question comes from Vibrant on Nosta. He said, thoughts on Sparrow now having sent a silent payments functionality and maybe your guys' opinions on silent payments versus pay names. Well, we've just covered the Sparrow thing. Opinions on silent payments versus pay names. I'm actually gonna read the next question as well because it's very similar, and then we can answer it together because the next question comes from bit are you is? How would you say that, Max? Bit are you is? Bit are you is? Yeah. Bit are you is. They said, do silent payments have a future and why not?
[01:04:43] Unknown:
So loaded.
[01:04:45] Unknown:
Yeah. I actually commented back to say, wait. Did you mean do they have a future? And if not, why not? And he was like, no. No. I meant why when?
[01:04:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Brilliant.
[01:04:54] Unknown:
Okay. So yeah. Well, let's answer both of those questions. We'll cover the spire a bit. The comparison. Well, do they have a future? I think, yes, probably, because there seems to be, rightly or wrongly, more of an acceptance of them as a concept compared to Bit 47. I think some of that is probably due to politics rather than a technical solution. Although there are some pros and cons or pros, I guess, of silent payments versus Bit 47 and its current guys as to how it's implemented, which, again, we'll get into in a second. I think it's a very strong signal that somebody like Sparrow has has added spending support for it. How widely it gets adopted with the rest of the the network is probably gonna take a lot longer than anybody anticipates as is always the case with any technical development. I think you'll agree, Max. Mhmm. Does it have a future? Yeah. I I'm fairly positive on it. I guess maybe a quick recap for for for those that are like, what fuck is silent payments? It's a privacy upgrade to Bitcoin that allows you to receive payments basically via a single reusable static address.
But it does so in a way that if you receive multiple transactions to the same static address, those transactions are not interlinked on the blockchain. So it, you know, allows you to receive from different people privately I say privately, in a manner that means that you don't have to interact with them. You can just have a QR code or an address in your Twitter bio.
[01:06:22] Unknown:
Rather than reusing the same address like a a standard address, you can Exactly. Have it. Yeah.
[01:06:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Silent payments, they don't require any direct sender receiver interaction. Like I say, it's just sender, scan the QR code, or enters your silent payment address. The compatible wallet does all of the magic under the hood to generate an Taproot Bitcoin address, a traditional Taproot address, which the Bitcoin is then sent to. I guess, at a high level, quick, like, one, two, three step how it goes. Your receiver will publish a static payment address again. Twitter bio, website, wherever it is. It's a similar looking address. It's just got the prefix s p one, maybe a q as well, or s p one. The sender uses the receiver's scan public key and one of their own inputs that they're gonna send to compute a a shared secret via basically cryptography magic, which is way above my head. And the sender then hashes that secret with the transaction data, which creates what we call a tweak, which is then added to the spend public key. This is getting way too technical. But, basically, it generates a unique Taproot output known only to the sender and the recipient so that only those two are kind of aware of the transaction.
And then on the receiver side, the receiver's wallet basically has to scan the blockchain using their I think it's called a scan private key, which app will then check all of the available outputs since the last scan to check whether any of them are kind of part of their own wallet. Mhmm. The pros, I guess, obviously, no address reuse, and there's no output linking, at least in the first instance. I say that because, obviously, it's still a Bitcoin output. So if you've received a 100 transactions to your silent payment address or addresses derived from your silent payment address, what you do with those afterwards can be impactful to your privacy. Mhmm. And going back to the pros, obviously, you know, super convenient, perfect for donations or static QR codes on websites. You don't need any interaction.
Yeah. It just produces a a typical Taproot output that looks like any other Taproot output in any other Bitcoin transaction. The main con really is the scanning overhead. So So I think I I briefly mentioned it before, but basically receivers have gotta scan the blockchain in a slightly more resource intensive way to kind of compute. It's not just a case of, you know, my wallet, talk to my node. Here's my list of addresses. Go and look for any transaction about those addresses. It's more in-depth than that because there's computation required from I wouldn't even dive into it because like I say, it's above my head, but there's more computation required to work out. Okay. There's an output. Is that mine? Can I spend that? And then you have to do some computation to to work that out. That's I think, initially was the kind of impact of that was overblown because most people should be running their own node anyway. But for those that are not running their own node, improvements are being made at the kind of index level to kind of optimize these types of things. So for somebody like kWallet, they're actively working for solutions to kind of mitigate the impact of all of this scanning that takes place. So I'm quietly confident that will become less of a of an issue, but it remains, you know, I guess, an unfixed problem or or something to be aware of when you're interacting with with silent payment is that basically if you're a receiver with silent payment, you just might have to open your wallet and just do a bit of a longer scan. I'm sure the Monero fans who listen to this will be no stranger to that. That's the main con really other than the fact that it's not as widely adopted yet. While I guess you could also argue that the only output or supported output type is Tapu.
So you can't hide in that big crowd of native Segwit addresses, which, you know, form the largest part. And obviously you can't do any multisig stuff with this either, I believe. Mhmm. So, yeah, I'm quite bullish. I think that it will continue to gain adoption. It seems to be well thought of by the influencer crowd, which whether we like it or not, tend to do quite a little bit for adoption over the years. So, yeah, we'll we'll see. I guess anything to chime in on there, Max?
[01:10:19] Unknown:
Not really. Other than it's one of these divisive topics. Again, like the knots versus core thing. I see often like silent payments versus bit 40 7 and like people on either side and this kind of stuff. And to me, I kind of look at this as like they're both good options. I use Bit 40 7. I've used it for a long time. I like it. I've honestly, I've never used silent payments. I think I tried to do it once. I had a failure. This is, like, a long time ago, early days, and I haven't really done anything with it since. But on the face of it, I look at it and just go, well, they're both good in different ways, and anything that helps people not reuse addresses and has the potential to give more privacy is good. I don't know technically which one I would choose if I could wave a magic wand. I just think if one's used a bit and one's used a lot and whichever way around it is, it's still better than not having them. That's my kind of view on it all. Yeah. I can go a bit deeper on the the comparison side of things, I guess, between Bit 47 and and sign up payments. Bit 47
[01:11:26] Unknown:
requires
[01:11:27] Unknown:
Notification
[01:11:28] Unknown:
transaction. Yeah. Notification transaction. Now in the current implementations like Ashigaru or I believe Spiro still has it, that is done on chain. So it's an extra fee, albeit it's almost negligible at the moment, the fee. It is an extra transaction that is takes time and effort and a small cost to create the setup and generate the shared secrets, which are then stored in our on the blockchain. Whereas silent payments just don't need that. Like, if I wanna pay you once and once only, Max, I just send you one silent payment and that's it. So I guess you could argue that Bit 47 is better suited to recurring relationships maybe, or it's more applicable to recurring relationships.
I guess you could argue that so silent payments is just that there's one less transaction to do. Mhmm. I will caveat that by saying it doesn't necessarily have be an on chain transaction, that notification. It could be somewhere off chain. It's just that all of the active implementations have only ever used an on chain transaction to establish that. You could argue that there is a pro to it as well as a con. Obviously, the cons are the cost and the time it takes to do it. But the pro is that, as we know, the Bitcoin blockchain is immutable, very difficult to change so that you know it's always gonna be there when you need to call upon it if you need to recover your wallet or something like that. Like, it's there. You just your wallet with the private keys references all of these previous notification transactions, and that's how you recover all of your previous Bit 47 transaction history and and outputs from that. So could argue it's a feature in our book depending on how you wanna look at it. I guess keeping on the topic of the notification transaction, that can leak some metadata just because you've gotta use one of your UTXOs to establish that connection. And then depending on which UTXOs you then use to make the actual payment once the notification transaction has been established, that could also leak some metadata between sender and receiver, which you may or may not want to do.
Again, I think sometimes when people talk about this, the the impact is overblown. But, again, it's something worth considering that you don't have to worry about with silent payments. Bit 47, I guess, because of how it generates the addresses, it requires less blockchain scanning, which as we've established is one of the main downsides at the moment of silent payments, which requires that continuous blockchain scan every time you open it because it, you know, it has to look at all of the transactions that have or outputs that have been created since the last time I did the scan to check that it isn't there isn't any outputs out there that belongs to this wallet. So that will be a pro for the the Bit 47 account at the moment as well. I think that's about it, really. They are very similar. The main differences for me to summarize would be silent payments doesn't have that setup transaction.
[01:14:05] Unknown:
But silent payments does require that more active scanning, which I believe is not that big of an issue. But on the other side of it, some people might say that it is an issue, and then you might say that, well, how does that scale if it's used a lot? Or, like, how much of a burden does that computation become? And is that something that the average person can run on their hardware and blah blah blah? I don't know. Like, way above my head. Don't know. But like I say, I just Yeah. The fact that both options are out there and people can use them is better than not having the options. So for me, that's a win. I'm, like, I'm happy that they're both out there. Agreed. Alright. Next question comes from Zikebuoy
[01:14:43] Unknown:
on Nosta. What happened to the usual 30% dips? Has the caliber of the current crop of Bitcoin has been watered down by tosses like sailor, or is it a millennial disease? Can someone please get to the depths and stand in front of each other so we can bash their heads together like what we used to get in the old days in it?
[01:15:05] Unknown:
I presume he sent this before, what was it, a couple of days ago? We had like a 10 or 15% drawdown in a day. I think he sent it this morning because I only I only asked this morning for questions. But,
[01:15:15] Unknown:
yeah. I mean, I don't understand why he's moaning about small dips. I mean, I welcome not having to, you know, see my net worth go through multiple hurdles.
[01:15:24] Unknown:
I prefer this. I guess what you might be getting at is, like, why are we not having these dips? Is it because institutions are, again, to use the cliche, buying the dips so that they're less harsh, maybe? I have no idea. I think we are having the dips. I think we are having the dips. I don't think, like we've had a few recently. We had that whatever it was, 15% the other day. We had four or five months ago, we suddenly went from, like, a 120 down to, like, 75. I don't know what that is as a percentage, but it's quite a lot. That's gonna be at least 30% more. So we are having them. I just think what I've seen since I've been involved is you have, like, it jumps around for a while, then you have a sort of bull runny sort of thing, and then you have this big 80% or there or thereabouts massive long bear market and then a sort of sideways recovery, and then it goes again. So maybe, like I don't know when that comes or whether it comes again, but that's what it's always been. So maybe we just have to wait for them. Like, it will come. I'm sure. In time, it will come.
[01:16:29] Unknown:
I was gonna say the same thing. No. Alright. Final question comes from a friend of the show, Rev Hoddle, on Nosta. He said, it seems like 25,000 sats is the standard minimum for lightning submarine swap services. Are there different services essentially just using bolts and that's why the minimum is so consistent? Yes. Moon Wallet is the only wallet I've found that can do submarine swaps with essentially no minimum. Are there any other swap services that have no minimum? I'll let you tackle this one first. Doesn't Moon use bolts on the back end? I don't believe they do use bolts. I think they might do it themselves.
[01:17:08] Unknown:
Okay. Okay. Well, I don't really know. I've had lots of problems with it, to be honest, with swaps. I would say Moon is really, really simple in the sense that it just works. One big frustration I have with Moon, say you send in an on chain payment and you want it swapping to Lightning. Unless you spend all of the sats, you risk linking UTXOs and causing yourself some privacy harm. And to then send all, there's not a send all function in the wallet. So you have to just guess constantly. You're like, I'll try sending this much. It's like, oh, and it's like, I'll try sending this much, and then it's like, that's below the minimum unless I'm doing something wrong, which is possible. Let's let's be honest. Yeah. Like, that's below the minimum. You need to have this much balance for the, you know, the payment of sending it. So and I'm like, okay. I'll try a little bit less. I'll try a little bit more. I'll try and as a general rule, I have to, like, just guess my way through, like, four or five times before I can send a payment to send all.
And I think quite often you end up sending or paying more in fees than you have to because they're like, okay. That's kind of close enough. That's, you know, within a few 100 sats, so we just take the rest. So that's the one thing with that. I'm like, it would be really nice, and I'm not slating the service because the service is pretty flawless outside of that. But yeah, like a send all would be quite nice because on Bolt I've had quite a few failures where I've been trying to swap and send to another lightning node and things like that. And I've had quite a few issues, so I moved across to Moon. And I never used to have issues with Bolt, so I don't know what that is. I don't know what's going on with that. But just quite a few where I pay, and then an hour goes past and it's like, oh, this failed. You're like, oh, great. It bounces back and you just, like, sent an on chain transaction that now has to be sent to your recovery address. And so you've just paid some fees and, like, nothing's happened. Interesting. I didn't even know Moo was still a thing. I'd never hear anybody mention it. So it's interesting to hear you talk about it actually and the fact that it's still going. I guess with the current fee situation, like, Moon is thriving because
[01:19:18] Unknown:
for those that don't know, Moon is is an on chain wallet that masquerades as a Lightning wallet, and every single transaction is essentially a submarine swap between Onchain and Lightning that they facilitate for you in a very easy way to be clear. Like, that's how it gained so much popularity so quickly. Yeah. So in a low free environment, because it's everything's on chain, even though you are able to pay Lightning invoices, it works. But But as soon as fees get high, like swap services go through the roof because, again, it's still still on chain. So interested. Yeah. Didn't even know they were still going. That's cool. Raf, I want to answer your question about are most people using Bolts? Yes. I've had some great experience with Bolts. Like, I've used them regularly for personal stuff and for work stuff, and it's been pretty faultless for me. In terms of the 25,000 sat fee, I'm guessing that because of the way Boltz works, like, all of their swaps will have to lock up a certain level of capital for a certain amount of time. They'll have to manage liquidity and channels, and they also do liquid stuff. And I'm guessing that they just set that fee as, like, a minimum viable fee that they will attract as a percentage because that's how they typically operate to make each operation worth their while is my guess. I did have a quick look on their docs to see if they gave anything more concrete than that, but I couldn't find anything. So I'm just guessing it's just a case of this is the minimum amount of because if you do a 25,000 stuff swap on bolts, like, they're gonna earn next the fuck all on that. Yeah. Type it in and see. Like, they're getting a 125 stats for facilitating that. So, you know, it's not a lot for them versus the computational cost and the capital lockup cost and yeah. So so I I'm guessing that it's something to do with that. Although, I do believe let me just click around. If you see there's Rootstock again. Send an asset on Rootstock. What the fuck is alright. I I'm gonna put out a bounty here. 5,000 stats to the person that gives me the best explainer in the comments on Fountain or any podcasting app. What the fuck is Rootstock, and should I be interested in it? Anyway, if you swap from liquid to lightning, I'm not sure why you'd wanna do that, but you can. The minimum amount is 41 sats.
[01:21:24] Unknown:
I know why people do that. I've heard loads of people do it for privacy hop. I think they go Bitcoin, lightning, lightning, liquid, liquid out, some sort of thing like that. Or they do a thing where they get paid in lightning, but it does a swap through Liquid. It's like an extra hop. I've heard loads of people do it. Like, it's not just like a few. I've heard loads of people do it. I suppose it's good that it's there as an alternative because we've got wallets like Aqua now, which are Liquid native, but also speak
[01:21:55] Unknown:
Bitcoin and Lightning. So I don't know. If you find yourself in a position where you don't wanna use the swap service in in Aqua and you've got some funds on Liquid, then, you know, it's good that Bolt also offers that as well as a as a an independent third party. Although, you know, if I was a betting man, maybe Aqua's using Bolt's in the back end anyway. Probably. You never know. Probably. Probably. So you can get around it if you are a a liquid enjoyer. So answer the 25,000 SAP fee or minimum. I'm guessing it's just an operational cost minimum. Let there accept the happy to accept. Yeah. Makes sense. Oh, are there any other swap services that have no minimum?
[01:22:31] Unknown:
I am not sure. I don't know whether there's anything Cake Wallet that would offer a smaller minimum. Are you familiar with that, Max? I don't know. Do they use Trukador on the back end or something like that? I'm not sure with their lightning stuff. I think their lightning stuff is relatively unbilled out on Cake. Okay. I'm sure Steph said on the last time that they're still, like, thinking about how to do things and make it slick, but I've not used their swap for anything lightning. I can't think if you even can. I think you can pay a lightning invoice with other cryptocurrencies, and it will go through to Lightning. It does a swap on the back end with their new, like, pay anything.
[01:23:09] Unknown:
What do they call it? Pay all or something like that? We'll have to ask him on the next Freedom Debt Friday. That sounds good to me. Yeah. I I don't know whether Wallace so she would would do something as well. I know they speak on chain and off chain, and they also have that air code self custody option as well, which I probably should have put on the list because they now have spark support, don't they, which they're calling a self custody option. That's also discussion for Freedom Tech Friday because I know Seth's been Yeah. Looking at this sort of stuff. So,
[01:23:34] Unknown:
yeah, stay tuned. Yeah. Other than that, mate, I think we are at the end of the list. I think so. Well, thanks, everyone. Thank you for the questions. Thank you for the SATs and everything else. We appreciate you. And, yeah, we'll catch you on Friday. Alright. Thanks, guys.
[01:23:49] Unknown:
And we're back. We are back. Take two. Thankfully, we don't need to do the whole show again.
[01:23:55] Unknown:
You said remind me of this. Like, as you said it, I was that's not my fucking word. My memory is awful. I didn't have a pen and I was like, okay. Let's let's see how this goes.
[01:24:08] Unknown:
And that's how it turned out. We had a last minute submission via my Nosta note. Comes from Huxley on Nosta who asked the question just after we started recording. So hence me asking Max to remind me, but we both forgot. So here we are recording immediately after we just stopped recording the main show. Just for you, Huxley. Yeah. So you're you're welcome. Huxley asks, is it best practice to use Ashikaru terminal when sending corn to and from my Albi hub to preserve privacy, or is this redundant if I'm using non KYC Bitcoin?
Max, I know you're an Alby hub enjoyer, so I'll let you tackle this one first.
[01:24:46] Unknown:
Yeah. It's an extra step that can't hurt, I guess. And I guess you mean you're going from lightning to on chain, and then you're sending it to Ashigaru terminal to mix before using it on chain again. So, personally, I tend to if something's in lightning, I tend to keep it in lightning as a general rule and spend with those lightning sats generally. But if I was gonna go back on chain, then, yeah, I would mix again. If it's not k y c and you wanna keep your private thing, I'd probably do that.
[01:25:23] Unknown:
I think the question is simpler than the way you interpreted it. I think they're just asking, once they bought Bitcoin, do they need to mix it with Ashikara before they send it to our v hope to presumably send on the lightning network? I don't think they didn't mention anything about swapping back and forth. It's just a case of do they need to do a coin joint before they top up their AlbieHub essentially.
[01:25:41] Unknown:
Right. Right. Right. Okay. Sorry. I thought you were saying from Albie to, Ashigaru. Yeah. I would always personally say you should consider doing that and then opening a channel with post mix. That's what I've always done previously.
[01:25:58] Unknown:
That would be, I think, probably the safest thing to do. What about you, mate? It isn't gonna hurt. You're gonna get additional privacy from the person or entity that you're buying this non KYC Bitcoin from. That's the main advantage here is you already got a good start if you're buying no KYC Bitcoin because, you know, you're not on the list. But whoever you bought from can track those UTXOs. So using Ashigari terminal to give the UTXOs that you bought from that person a fresh start before you go into lightning will be additive. I guess it can't hurt if you're comfortable with the technical know how and the requirements to do that with Ashigari terminal. By all means, go for it. And, obviously, that you're comfortable with the fees as well because, you know, if you're doing this regularly, then you gotta take that into account, particularly if you're buying smaller amounts. Yeah. Because using Whirlpool is not free. There are costs associated with that. The other thing I would maybe consider as well to remove some hurdles, although you might be adding additional ones, if I don't know how you wanna look at this, is why not buy via RoboSats? You're already in the lightning network there. That way, this is up for debate, but you could argue that you remove the need to have any on chain footprint whatsoever, thus remove the need to use Whirlpool in the first place. Send me a DM, and I'll send you some reference on this. I've done a little write up on buying and staying within the lightning network to reduce your on chain footprint in a bit to preserve your privacy when interacting with Bitcoin.
Maybe Jordan quick reminder for you if we can add that to the show notes. That'd be awesome. Maybe worth exploring as well. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. So in summary, if on chain
[01:27:28] Unknown:
and you wanna have the privacy, probably worth doing, but there is a cost associated, like privacy isn't free, or you do it the other way, like you just said, straight into lightning. So you you're already in that ecosystem, and you don't have the on chain footprint. Good advice. Alright. Let's wrap it up, mate. Huxley, you're welcome for the additional little mini show. Yeah. Thanks for the question. Thanks for everybody that got involved. Alright. Adios. Bye.
[01:27:56] Unknown:
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