The Bitcoin Brief is a show hosted by Max and Bitcoin QnA. We cover important updates in the world of bitcoin and open source software. It is our imperative to provide some education along the way too, so that the misfits can expand their knowledge base and become more sovereign as a result.
We do this every second week to keep our listeners informed without having to dedicate hours every day to keep on top of developments. We break things down in a simple and fun way and we welcome questions or topic suggestions via Podcasting 2.0 boosts.
SHOW DETAILS
AOB
NEWS
UPDATES/RELEASES
SPONSORS
We do this every second week to keep our listeners informed without having to dedicate hours every day to keep on top of developments. We break things down in a simple and fun way and we welcome questions or topic suggestions via Podcasting 2.0 boosts.
SHOW DETAILS
AOB
- Q has fun with Paypal
- Orange man elected - Ross home soon?
- New Foundation community forum
- New Foundation product teaser
- Multisig talk at PubKey Nov 17th
NEWS
- OP Next streams
- Roman storm trial pushed back to April
- Roman Sterlingov sentenced to 12.5 years in jail
UPDATES/RELEASES
- BitAxe v2.4.0
- Boltzmann v0.1.0 is a TypeScript library that computes the entropy of bitcoin transactions and the linkability of their inputs and outputs.
- Robosats v0.7.2 alpha - first step to client 'Nostricfication'
- Keeper v1.2.18 mobile and desktop v0.1.3
- Zeus White announced
- Zeus v0.9.2
- Liana v8.0
- Mempal app released
IMPORTANT LINKS
SPONSORS
FOUNDATION
https://foundation.xyz/ungovernable
Foundation builds Bitcoin-centric tools that empower you to reclaim your digital sovereignty.
As a sovereign computing company, Foundation is the antithesis of today’s tech conglomerates. Returning to cypherpunk principles, they build open source technology that “can’t be evil”.
Thank you Foundation Devices for sponsoring the show!
Use code: Ungovernable for $10 off of your purchase
CAKE WALLET
https://cakewallet.com
Cake Wallet is an open-source, non-custodial wallet available on Android, iOS, macOS, and Linux.
Features:
- Built-in Exchange: Swap easily between Bitcoin and Monero.
- User-Friendly: Simple interface for all users.
Monero Users:
- Batch Transactions: Send multiple payments at once.
- Faster Syncing: Optimized syncing via specified restore heights
- Proxy Support: Enhance privacy with proxy node options.
Bitcoin Users:
- Coin Control: Manage your transactions effectively.
- Silent Payments: Static bitcoin addresses
- Batch Transactions: Streamline your payment process.
Thank you Cake Wallet for sponsoring the show!
VALUE FOR VALUE
Thanks for listening you Ungovernable Misfits, we appreciate your continued support and hope you enjoy the shows.
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(00:00:57) THANK YOU FOUNDATION
(00:01:38) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET
(00:02:49) Chow Mein QnA
(00:05:06) Fancy Some New Carpet?
(00:06:37) Ross is Released SOON
(00:08:40) Your Account is Closed
(00:13:28) New Foundation Community Forum!
(00:16:34) Beyond The Hardware Wallet
(00:17:59) Be @ Pubkey on December 17th!
(00:19:28) NEWS
(00:25:11) Roman Storm Trial Delayed
(00:25:54) Roman Sterlingov Sentenced to 12 1/2 Years
(00:28:25) BOOSTS
(00:46:06) UPDATES & RELEASES
(00:47:46) Robosats Introduces the Nostr Orderbook
(00:49:18) Bitcoin Keeper Has Enhanced UTXO Management
(00:50:02) Introducing ZEUS White
(00:51:10) ZEUS Allows You To Export Your TX History
(00:53:37) Liana Gets a NIce Upgrade
(00:58:16) QUESTIONS
(00:58:18) Voicemail from Soulex: Seedphrases and Passphrases for Friends
(01:12:34) Quiet on the Ashigaru Front
(01:14:16) My NUC's Too Noisy
(01:17:05) Thoughts on Lopp and Jamesob
(01:27:11) Now You Can Leave Q
[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking 0. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every 2 weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x, xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the K Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cakewallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cakepay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. I'm really looking forward to getting Seth and some of the other team members back on the show soon, and I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Good morning.
[00:02:51] Unknown:
Good morning, sir. How are you?
[00:02:53] Unknown:
I am excellent. How are you?
[00:02:56] Unknown:
I am slightly less than 100%. It's quite funny. We were talking about fish and chips and food that's generally not that good for you on the last show. I, had a Chinese last night and it's, let's just say it's not sitting all that well. Oh, dear. It's certainly right for eating that sort of shit, but it's, yeah, it's one of them things. What did you go for? I had a salt and pepper box and then some, god. What's it called? Charmaine? No. I did have a bit of Charmaine, but that wasn't mine. That was somebody else. It just, like, nicked a little bit of it. But mainly it was sweet and sour box, and I can't remember the name of the other thing. Okay. But, it was very, very tasty. Very fucking expensive as well. Oh, yeah. He fell over when I saw the bill. Jesus.
[00:03:41] Unknown:
Yeah. It's mental. The rare occasion we'll do it, I always just think, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah. You'd order for, like, a couple of people, and you think, oh, just get, like, an extra side or whatever. And you're like, oh, that's a day's work.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
And you always have so much food left over, don't you? Especially the Chinese. Oh, yeah. Chinese is is quite good for that. But it's quite nice the next day unless you're feeling rough. Oh, I'm not one of those people. I can't do the leftover food. No. No. Doesn't even matter. Like, it's not even just for Chinese, like, any food. That's all. Like, if it's if it's been sat for even an hour, like, I'm not touching it. I'm not going back there. Okay. Quite soft then. Yeah. It could be said. Yeah. My missus is like that. I just I'm sort of, like, the level slightly above the dog.
[00:04:28] Unknown:
Even, like, 2, 3, 4 days in the fridge with things, I'll eat. Oh, will you reheat though? You you're not a complete animal. Okay. No. I'll reheat. I won't eat a Chinese cold out the fridge. I mean, that is proper. That's mental. I'll reheat it, but then there's, like, past that sort of 4 days is probably the cutoff really for me. Past that, then I'll say, no. I'm sorry. That's going to you, mate. And the dog will smash it. Like, if there's, like, additional organisms starting to grow on top of it. Oh, yeah. No. I won't do that. I wouldn't I wouldn't ever put him at risk, but I think dog's stomachs are a little bit tougher. My my stomach is pretty decent, and then his is just a level above. But, yeah, no shitting going on at the house at the moment, which is good. But I'll tell you what happened yesterday, and this has really pleased me. We had new carpets in this rental place we're in probably 8 months ago, something like that. So they're basically new, and we've been working really hard to keep them all nice and thinking, well, when we leave, we're not gonna have to pay for new ones.
And yesterday, I had maybe, like, 30 seconds of quiet. And I was like, oh, it's Lucky you. Quiet down there. That's quiet. I wonder what's happening. And I walked downstairs, and then I heard, and I was like, what the fuck is that noise? And there is my little one with a hairdryer on hot, holding it onto the carpet, and just burning holes through the carpet. So we've got these big black ring marks that have burnt the whole way through, like, right down, completely fucking destroyed the carpet.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
Oh, god. That is that is horrendous.
[00:06:20] Unknown:
Right in the middle as well. It's not even, like, in a throw sofa over the top of it. No. It's, like, literally couldn't be more central. I'm, like, thinking about, oh, maybe there can be a rug or something sort of to do it right now in case there's an inspection, but when we leave, definitely new carpet. No question. Ouch. Anyway, what else was going on? What's going on in the Bitcoin world?
[00:06:41] Unknown:
Well, not necessarily the Bitcoin world, but it is tangential to it. As you know, we this is not a politician show, but this is a very important topic. Orange man got elected. Mhmm. You did. Which many Bitcoiners are happy about. Yes. And it does look like there is a distinct possibility that he might stay true to his word and that Ross might be coming home within a couple of months, which I am very, very, very happy about, and hopefully everybody listening to this is as well. There's been a couple of tweets from the, you know, officially unofficial account for Ross that he kind of obviously, his people are using to kind of so that he can communicate with the rest of the world through, have confirmed that they've been in contact and that it does look like it's going to happen.
Obviously, don't wanna count my chickens until, you know, he's literally walking outside of those walls and he's reunited with his family after, you know, over 11 years wrongfully jailed. Very promising, but, yeah, I I don't wanna get too my hopes up too high, but, it's it's looking good at the moment that he's he's gonna walk free, early next year, hopefully, which is wonderful news. That would be
[00:07:46] Unknown:
incredible. I have to be honest, like, I was thinking, shit. I just don't think he's ever gonna get out of there. Mhmm. The team around him and everyone trying to help, and his mum, bless her, just, like, working nonstop, doing everything that she could to help. And I just I couldn't help looking at the situation and thinking, it's so disgusting and wrong, but I just can't see him ever getting out. So I would love to be proven wrong there. It would be amazing.
[00:08:16] Unknown:
It really would. Yeah. Like, this sort of stuff means so much more to I'm sure I speak for you here openly that to the both of us that this is better than any, you know, nominal all time high and us getting healthier than we were 2 months ago. Like, this is what it's all about. This is what really moves the needle. So fingers crossed, orange man stays, true to his words, and we can get Ross out. I'll be Yeah. That would make my year. In other news, I've been having a bit of fun with PayPal. Like, did you see my tweets? Yeah. I did.
[00:08:47] Unknown:
I saw you saying I've been forced to use PayPal, and I just thought, let's see how this goes.
[00:08:54] Unknown:
So so for those that don't follow me on Twitter or haven't seen my tweets, I was selling a household item, and the buyer insisted that they wanted to pay me via PayPal, which is fair enough. Okay? It's you know, I begrudgingly said that's fine. I've had my PayPal account for years to, you know, interface with eBay and all that sort of crap. Gone through all of the usual KYC, so it's it's not like I'm a new account or with some suspicious activity. Admittedly, I don't use it a lot. This is one of the first sales I ever did via PayPal. Normally, I'm just using it to purchase stuff, but this guy wanted to buy this thing from me and he was insistent on using PayPal. So I was, okay, fine. So he he sent the money over. Immediately, they released like 5% of the funds. It wasn't a couple £100 worth of stuff, it was, you know, a couple £1,000 worth of stuff. They said, oh, yeah. No problem. You can withdraw, a £100 now, and the other couple of 1,000 you're gonna have to wait for, I think you said 90 days.
The thing that I'm selling is being posted, and obviously I ain't letting it go until I've got all the money. So I said to the guy, I said, look, you know, they're making me wait 90 days here. And I said, I'm not gonna be posting this stuff until the funds are in my bank, unfortunately. So we were both buyer and the seller side of things. We're both trying to jump through hoops to see what we could do to kind of release the funds quicker because I wanted the money and he wanted the goods naturally. Mhmm. Did all of the the steps that they said to move things along, things like posting proof of, like, postage and the tracking ID and things like that, that were all scheduled ready to go, pictures of the items, all that sort of stuff. So did all of that and it was still saying, yep. Yeah. You're not getting your funds for another 90 days. It's like, okay. Great. So I said to the fella, I said, look. You're gonna have to just cancel this, and we'll look at an alternative. And he's like, no. No. It's it's fine. We'll get through this. Another hour passes, and I get a separate email from PayPal to say, we no longer want to do business with you. We've terminated your account. Any funds that are locked, you can you can re you can have them back in a 120 days. Oh, for fuck's sake.
So I reached out to the sport. I was like, what's going on? I've, you know, jumped through all the hoops. Why are you closing my account? Usual stuff I've seen it time and time again. They give you no explanation. They just say you've breached the community guidelines, and they're closing your account without recourse. That's all the information we're allowed to provide you. There's nothing you can do about it. That's it. So the the Peanut Gallery on Twitter were were having a bit of a chuckle when I posted an hour late to say that they've closed my account, which I kinda found it pretty funny after I got over the annoyance of having to jump through all these hoops. Luckily it did let me cancel the or refund the buyer all of his money so that I didn't have to wait for it and he got it back immediately and then we've knocked down other channels. But, yeah, the whole experience was just absolutely horrendous and makes me somewhat bullish basically on Bitcoin and Lightning. I know we regularly, for good reason, slate on the UX around self custodial Lightning. But if normies are going to do this shit with PayPal every single day and this is considered the norm, then fuck me. You can run a start 9, you can spin up a phoenix or a Zeus, and you can make it work because I wouldn't wish that on my worst anime experience I had that day. The amount of time I wasted going back and forth and just it was like speaking to a brick wall. So, yeah, it was just a complete nightmare experience and one that I wish to never have again. Well, ironically, I can never have it again because they've closed my account without recourse. So account. Bye bye PayPal. When when PayPal
[00:12:17] Unknown:
fucked up on the transaction and they ended up paying, like, an enormous minor fee, maybe it was about a year ago, then they got refunded by whoever mined that block. Can you remember that? It was probably like Yeah. It does ring a bell. Yes. It was about a year ago. And I remember thinking at the time because it'd been a long time since I've used PagePal, but similar sort of situations as as you've just experienced. I was thinking, please, if there's any good in the world, you keep that fee. It was something like It was a lot. Cheap. Right? It was a lot. I think it was the biggest one ever. It was like 1,000,000 of dollars. And I was thinking, you have to keep this and then send something like, I'm afraid we're closing your account. We no longer want to work with you. Please don't use our service anymore. That would have been amazing. So you fucked up there, whoever that was. It was some, like, Asian guy Was it f two Paul? Yeah. I think it may have been. Yeah. I think it may have been, but you fucked up there. Yeah. You had the chance to quite literally get one over on the man, and you failed. Yeah. Yeah. You And now the man's got one over on me.
Fuck you, PayPal. Yes. Cosign that.
[00:13:28] Unknown:
In other news, we have the new foundation community is now live. We talked about this well, I alluded to this last week, but I was putting the finishing touches to it. And for anybody who missed that show, we at Foundation are moving away from Telegram as our primary kind of community discussion. For obvious reasons, just absolutely rife with scammers. Just this kind of seems like an unfixable problem at the moment where admins in Bitcoin groups just get impersonated. Telegram doesn't seem to do a lot to kind of prevent that. They wait for unsuspecting users to ask for support in the Foundation Group or the Start Line Group or anything similar to that. And then they will reach out to that user who is normally a new user, an unsuspecting user that doesn't know any better. They'll reach out to them via DMs, offer them some support, and socially engineer them into, either typing in their seed words into a malicious website or just getting them to give them their seed words.
And, yeah. So we just decided enough, you know, if, like, if if Telegram can't prevent it, we certainly can't prevent it, then we're just gonna just cut ties with it. Stop our customers and our, fans being able to even talk about our products there, as sad as that is, and enable that conversation to take place in somewhere in a location where we have much more control, where we know we can prevent people from getting hurt. So, yeah, our new Foundation Community Forum is now live. You can visit it at community.foundation.xyz. It's built on top of the very powerful open source software called Discourse, which is like forum software, which has loads of customizations and, you know, the ability to kind of make it your own and put your own stamp on it so that they don't all look the same, which was one of the things that kind of put me off it. The thought of it initially was that it was just gonna be some boring kind of forum software that's, you know, a bit of a chore to use. But I put a lot of work into it to get it looking somewhat presentable and make it usable for people even on mobile as well. So, yeah, I'm pretty happy with the with the end product.
The main problem we've got now is just getting people over there. Telegram's very sticky. It's very easy to use. It's got loads of cool features, and people have been using it for years for years. People know how to use it. It's got a great mobile app, all that sort of stuff. So trying to, you know, over a 1000 people in our community and get them across to the new website is gonna take some time. So if you're listening to this and you haven't signed up yet, please do head over and start helping us stoke the conversation. The Telegram room will be getting locked within the next couple of weeks. From then on, it will be read only. So if you're in there, you will be able to see our company updates and stuff, but you won't be able to ask for support or anything like that. So if you do need support, obviously, use the official support channels, usual email or website live chat, or now you can, head over to the community and see if a a member of the team or indeed a member of the community can come over there and help out as well. It's a shame, but you needed to do it. There's a blog post that'll be in the show notes as well that, links to, you know, the rationale behind this and also gives you a quick primer on how to get signed up and how to use the forum as well if you're kind of new to this side of things.
More foundation news. We have started some very naughty teasers in the past week or so. Yeah. I've seen. Keyword here is teasers. Obviously, I'm not, at this point, unable to share any more details other than telling people to head to foundation.xyz/beyond. You'll be able to see what information, very small amount, that we have actually shared, and you can sign up to to be updated so that you are the first to know when we are able to share a bit more details. And there's a nice little countdown clock on there as well, which currently at the time of recording sits at 28 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes, and 48 seconds. That thing, whatever it is, has got more curves than Salma Hayek.
[00:17:18] Unknown:
It's looking delicious.
[00:17:20] Unknown:
It's a very beautiful product. The literally the most beautiful product we've made to date. And I know there's only 3 so far, one of them being software and 2 hardware, but we we have Ambuloma and Drumpet, but we've excelled ourselves. It is incredibly beautiful. There are quite a few number of people getting kind of, you know, frustrated and wanting to know, and just just bear with us. 28 days is not a long time. There will be more details being teased between now and that 28 day deadline, so stay close to our Nostra and our Twitter, and our forum. All of the new teasers will be getting shared in there. And, as we come closer to that date, it will become a lot clearer as to what this, device is. Final piece of foundation news. We are running, our 3rd PubKey event of the year in a couple of weeks in PubKey in New York City.
Myself and Zach are gonna be running a Multisig 1 zero one workshop, obviously featuring, foundation products, Passport. And we'll also be doing it with I'm probably gonna do it with Spiro, I think, again, for obvious reasons. It's the gold standard for desktop wallets and makes, demonstrations in person very easy. So if you're in town on we commence in the well, the event is on 17th December, which is a Tuesday. So if you're in town that week, please stop by, say hello, and I might even treat you to a pint of Guinness. And, we're also gonna be in town for the rest of the week as well, and we're gonna be back at Poughkeepsie on the Thursday that week to share something new.
[00:18:53] Unknown:
I wonder what that might be.
[00:18:55] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. So, the observant among you might be able to work out the correlation between the timer on the website and the 2 days after the December 17th to see what might be, happening on that day. I'm jealous
[00:19:09] Unknown:
now.
[00:19:11] Unknown:
So exciting times for foundation. We've got a lot going on, and it's gonna be a big month. We're looking forward to, to that week. Obviously, getting to meet the guys down at Pubgie again, getting to meet all of our users. If you're in town, please come and say hello. And, obviously, we're most excited about, you know, sharing, something new. On to the news, the OP next or up next, the Bitcoin scaling conference took place, which commenced in November 9th. And, it's a, obviously, a technical workshop where they're talking about opcodes and how to scale Bitcoin and stuff. So one for the techies this, but, there'll be a link in the show notes for the live streams if you wanna go ahead and watch those back. It was held in Boston. There's a lot of interesting looking conversations on there that I'm looking forward to catching up on. We've got things like CTV Talks, Covenants, Arc. There's a lot of stuff there that have, you know, have been hot topic for the better part of a couple of years now. Another one is Opvault.
So I'm definitely, myself, gonna be catching up with a few of those probably on the the audio stream. But, if you're that way inclined, check out the link in the show notes so you can stay up to speed with that because, sometimes the the conversation can get quite muddy on Twitter or Nostra when people are passionately talking about the next opcode. So I always find that listening to somebody who's quite technical talk about it, you know, without being shouted out from the public square is a great way to get up to speed. Will you be watching that one, Max? I know you're super technical.
[00:20:40] Unknown:
Sure. I feel less technical than I ever have at the moment. Really? Aft after all of your wins in recent weeks. When I say technical, I mean, I feel like I'm more behind on all the ops and this and that and op cat and blah blah blah. Like, all these things, I just feel like for the last, I don't know, couple of years, I've kind of just, like, drowned it out. I've just been, like, I'm not paying attention to anything until it's close to actually happening, and I, like, have to actually worry about it because there's just too much other stuff on my plate to worry about. I feel like I know less, whereas early days of Bitcoin, I would listen to every single podcast and every single update and try and get my hands on any information about everything I possibly could, like, obsessively.
And Antonopoulos used to do all these little mini, like, q and a sessions, and I used to watch every single one of those and make notes. And and now I'm just kind of like, look. Bitcoin does what I want it to do. It works. I have a setup that I'm happy with. The updates on the things that I use and things I care about, I listen to, and kind of just feel I would like to maybe sit and spend a couple of days and just go, like, what the fuck is all this new stuff that people are talking about, and is it useful?
[00:21:57] Unknown:
Because I don't know. That's the truth. I just don't I I don't know enough to comment on that. Yeah. We're we we have a great question from Jordan towards the end of the show. So I'm not gonna go too deep into this right now, because he's gonna overlap with that conversation we'll have later. But do you know what I think the difference is between how Enthuse you used to be and how easy it was to keep up to speed, you know, let's say 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago versus now. This is my view on it anyway. You you'd correct me if I'm wrong, but the last contentious big change we had was Segwit. Yeah. That was before my time, so I wasn't really involved in that conversation. I kind of joined as it was going live sort of thing. So I wasn't really in that conversation to stay up to speed, especially from a technical point of view. The next big upgrade we had after that really was Taproot, which was noncontroversial.
Pretty much everybody wanted it. So there was never any or not many dissenting opinions against it. It was just a case of, okay. This is great. When can we have it? So there wasn't much noise around it. It was just a case of I guess, the main controversy was, like, activation methods and stuff like that, which was were less important. Right? Yeah. So it was easy to kind of you know, you didn't have to weigh up. Okay. Well, developer a is saying this, and developer b disagrees for this reason. And there was none of that for Taproot. Now we've got all this covenant stuff. We're back into that controversial bit where not only is there differing opinions on whether this is good or bad, but there's also 10 different ways all with their own pros and cons of doing roughly the same sort of thing.
So it's like there's just so much more. You've got dissenting opinions to try and weigh up and decide for yourself who's right, but then you've also got all of these different implementations to try and understand. Like, it's no wonder that myself included is not able to keep up with all this sort of stuff in any tangible way to be able to form a, you know, a really balanced view on which one's good, which one's bad, which developers you agree with. Like, it's a lot. Like, it would be a full time job to stay up to speed with that. So I think that's where the landscape's changed and kind of why you're absolutely not alone in the fact that,
[00:24:00] Unknown:
it's nigh on impossible to keep up with this sort of stuff, especially all the covenants at the moment. Well and also, like, when I was diving into all that stuff before, I was spending probably 9, 10 hours a day listening and reading and whatever, like, just obsessively. And I didn't have kids. So, like, I can do that. Like, now Very good point. If I manage to take a shit in peace, that is a good day. That is a great day. And the only time that I can listen to a podcast would be while I'm driving, and I barely drive anymore. So it's like, if I listen to half of a podcast a week now, that's probably about as much as I manage. I listened to that one Seth did with Lop the other day. That's great. That was very good. But I had to actually carve out time. I had to drop other things so that I could listen to that. It wasn't like I can just passively listen while I do other stuff. So, yeah, just keeping up with it is just not gonna happen. I'll I'll wait for you to do it, and then I'll just pick your brains. I'll see what will happen.
[00:24:59] Unknown:
I feel that that's what we all do, isn't it? We we all delegate to a higher power to to help us form our opinions and and distill it all down. So I'm happy to be one rung in that ladder for you. More news. The Tornado Cash developer, Roman Storm, has had his trial delayed until April next year. This is to push to keep his expert witness secret is scheduled for November 12th. Wait. Hold on. That doesn't make any sense. So in the unicast developer, Romastorm's upcoming trial has been, yeah, pushed until April, which previously had a scheduled December start date and that your judges ruled on last Friday. Okay? So, sadly, you know, he's got that hanging over his head for at least another 4 months now, which is which is not great. But once again, when, the time comes that there's any tangible updates other than it being pushed back, we will keep you guys updated.
In even sadder news, the Bitcoin Fog user, I use that term intentionally, the alleged operator, Roman Stirlingoff, has been sentenced to 12 and a half years in prison, for, again, allegedly running the Bitcoin Fog Mixing Service. And I love the the no bullshit Bitcoin title here for allegedly running it based on junk science, I e, chain analysis.
[00:26:21] Unknown:
My understanding is just like one transaction that was linked to paying for a server or some type of hosting, which could have maybe touched a wallet that he was in control of. It's all a bit, like, loosey goosey. And to put someone away at all for something that loosely tied to them is fucking mental. But for 12 and a half years, it's like, I don't know, 30% of your useful life Mhmm. Is absolutely fucking disgusting.
[00:26:57] Unknown:
And, again, we drew this analogy last week, bought 12 and a half years for allegedly running a service that, again, allegedly laundered money versus we've got pedophiles walking the street in the UK Yeah. Because they work for the BBC. Like, it's I can't even put into words how abhorrent or how how much judicial injustice there is in this world. It's just it makes me sick to my stomach. Yeah. It's,
[00:27:25] Unknown:
it's enough to make you angry enough to dedicate your life to take their power away.
[00:27:31] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. He's also been ordered to forfeit 395,000,000 and had 1,760,000 worth of seized assets as well or worth of his assets seized. He was ordered to forfeit 1,345 BTC from the Bitcoin Fog Wallet that they say he controls, worth over a $103,000,000.
[00:27:52] Unknown:
So hold on. They're charging him all this money. Have they got any proof that he has any of it?
[00:27:58] Unknown:
Not. Well, I think the, the the first part of this where it says he's ordered to forfeit 395,000,000 and seized assets from him worth around 1.76. The fact that they've done that, I I guess, presumes that they they know he's got that. It's the second part that is funny to me where they've ordered him to forfeit all of the money from the alleged Bitcoin Fog Wallet that they say he was in control of, which obviously he's denied. Okay. Shall we hit some boosts? Yeah. Let's do it. Very big fan of this first one. It's from John. We all know John. 100,000 sats.
He said, I'm so very excited that after two and a half years of producing mining content together, Max finally understands how to convert Terra to PETA. I'm so proud.
[00:28:50] Unknown:
Apparently, all the people in the, the minor group we have, the club minor group, were all very proud. Chet had messaged him like, oh, yeah. Look at Max. He can actually fucking count. Well, thank you, John. It's starting to rub off. I'm starting to learn. Late stage Huddl with 40,000 sats. Y'all call it grid. I guess I normally call it a grate inlet. As an engineer, I'd say storm drain inlet would be the most generic term. The top could be a grate. A dome grate, wear, curb, inlet, etcetera. And the little thing. Oh, it's a. Yeah.
Thumbs up. No meaning or reason for it on my boost. Just can't boost without a message anymore because of fucking Nosta integration. But at least my queue still doesn't work in fountain, and the UI sucks. Chip shop, salt and vinegar, battered sausage. Is this just a corn dog? No. It is not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Nothing like it. Deep fried anything sounds like a county fair, but good to know q and a doesn't love battering hot oily sausages.
[00:30:17] Unknown:
Thank you for your boost late stage huddle. Okay. I'm gonna butcher this name, so I apologize in advance, but this comes from Pojameans? Pojemese. Oh, they actually sent me a thing. They sent me another boost how to say it. Oh, really? Okay. Well well, I'll read it while you find it. I'll read their boost. I won't find it. 1,000, by the way. Thank you. I just wanted to give you a boost because you really deserve it. But there is one thing I'd like to mention. Zeus Wallet is a bitch. Channels are closed for unknown reasons. Sending and receiving very often do not show the status, although they are successful.
This often leads to having to restart the app very often. I hate it. Lightning is annoying anyway. Cosign the last message, but that's your experience is definitely not the experience I've had with Zeus. However, it sounds like you might be using the hosted channels, which if you are, obviously, that's a paid service. I would absolutely go into the the Zeus Telegram room. Be careful, obviously. Telegram's full of scammers. But, as for support, there there there's some great guys in there that will be able to give you some troubleshooting steps that, might be able to assist. But it definitely sounds like it's a problem with the the hosted channel service because, speaking for myself, I've I've not had a single channel closure in years. It's by Asus.
[00:31:30] Unknown:
I had one the other day. Was it, a hosted channel? Like, a It was not a hosted channel. No. It was one I'd opened in Sea Lightning, and I was just operating it in Zeus. Alright. Well, I haven't actually had time to probably work it out whether it's a channel closure or what it is, but it no longer shows as active in the c lightning GUI thing, which is really weird because I never closed it, and I need to have a play around with it. But, yeah, I couldn't get it working, couldn't make any payments. It's really fucking annoying. As he says, lightning is annoying. It is fucking annoying. Certainly can be. Yep. But I'll tell you what lightning's like. It's like a constant fucking annoyance with just the odd wave of, like, oh, this is quite good, actually. It's like having a kid. Yeah. Exactly. It's like 95% of the time you're going, fuck this shit. Ugh. What have I done?
Why am I doing this? Ugh. Is it all worth it? And then there's just this little 5% where you go, this is amazing. This is bliss. Just riding a wave of bliss. That's lightning. Lightning cost me a few less sats, though. And it doesn't burn holes in your carpet. Oh, gosh. Yeah. For fuck's sake. XMR chat 0.121 XMR from fuck. Great username. Yeah. Thanks, mate.
[00:32:52] Unknown:
We have, a shout out for Shadrach who streamed us, yeah, streamed us a total of 10,640 sats at a 120 sats per minute. Thank you very much, sir. Wow. Thank you, mate. Appreciate you. 8 Mythrandir
[00:33:07] Unknown:
with 7,777 sats. Remember, remember, the 5th November, the gunpowder treason and plot. I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot. Guy Fawkes and his companions did the scheme contrive to blow the king and parliament all up alive. Threescore barrels laid below to prove old English overthrow, but by god provenance, him they catch with a dark lantern lighting a match. A stick and a stake for King James' sake, if you won't give me 1, I'll take 2, the better for me and the worse for you, a rope, a rope to hang the Pope, a penneth of cheese to choke him, a pint of beer to wash it down, and a jolly good old fire to burn him. Whole of boys, whole of boys make the bells ring.
Hollow boys, hollow boys, God save the king. Hip hip hooray.
[00:34:12] Unknown:
Wow. Beautiful.
[00:34:14] Unknown:
Thank you, mate. That before. No. I haven't either. I think that's because we were asking or I was wondering The story behind it. Behind it. Yeah. I feel like there's more. You know, like, you look through history and you just think, I don't know if that's true. I feel like there's something more going on in that story. Like, I'd I'd like to know. But thank you for the poem anyway. I appreciate it. Thanks, Abe. Next one's from x patriotic on XMR chat. 0.048
[00:34:39] Unknown:
XMR. He said lightning disrespectors. Here is some fag money to make up for my missing lightning boosts. Also, something smart about coffee.
[00:34:52] Unknown:
Very good. Here is some fag money. Okay.
[00:34:56] Unknown:
Does he mean cigarette money, or does he mean fag as in the usual term? Maybe he means to buy some cigarettes. Possibly. Why will have we been talking about smoking lately? No. It's probably greaser.
[00:35:08] Unknown:
Okay. Smoking for eggs. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think he's talking about XMR. Because other than my fuck up where I just put a dash stupidly, I've been really enjoying using XMR as a payment method. It's not been so good to store any value in, and luckily, I haven't done that. But as a payment method, bang, send, cost fuck all, works, No custody. No stupid fucking lightning shit and channels closing and blah blah blah. And if something messes up, you know you got your seed words. It's just really nice.
[00:35:44] Unknown:
I'm glad to hear that. And my experience, although minimal, has been very much the same.
[00:35:50] Unknown:
Soulex, 6900 sats. Fucking 500 Monopoly. I think it means monopoly money per month. Eyes. Fuck. Worried face. Oh, he's talking about my, my AI and software stuff. Yeah. I I had the same reaction as you, Alex. Yeah. Well, I I totaled out the other day. It was a little bit less. It was in the $400 range, but, also, it's not just AI. So I've got, like, my Adobe subscriptions because of some of the artwork. I've got my AI subscriptions for, like, art and voice and bits and pieces. I've got the recording software that we're using now so that it stores locally, not just you know, if we cut off, we don't lose it. Editing software. Like, just there's a lot of extra shit that we need to just make this run smoothly. So, yeah, it's in the 4 100, but, you know, it is what it is. I fucking hate subscriptions.
They are a stain on life, aren't they? Yeah. They really are. It's it's fucking disgusting. And I try and save the money where I can, but it's just like it also, like, I look at it as time. Since I've gone full time, we're pretty much doing, like, double the amount of shows per month. If I can shave off time and make things slicker or just make things better and I have to throw some sass at it, I can do that because you just hit a limit of, like, how much time you have, and that's where the tools come in. So Yeah. They are good, but, yeah, it's fucking disgusting.
[00:37:22] Unknown:
Next one's from mister Nathan Day, 5,000 sats. I think his Nosta client may have screwed him over here because it just says blank is a Northerner question mark fake news. Now I think this is about your saying there was a Northern influence in your household or something like that last time. No. No. No. No. He's talking about coffee. He's saying black coffee is a Northerner, question mark, fake news. And I was like, no. He is a Northerner.
[00:37:48] Unknown:
He's definitely more Northern than you. Yeah. He's definite I mean, everyone's more Northern than me. But I would class him as a Northerner. I don't know where the where the limit is. I almost say, like, I don't know. Careful.
[00:38:02] Unknown:
Careful. You're gonna say, like, Watford now, aren't you? That's on the limit almost. What? Yeah.
[00:38:13] Unknown:
Anything north of that is probably or like Bedford, anything north of that is probably north for me. I suppose it's all relative, isn't it? Yeah. Like, you might say, oh, well, someone like proper northern would be, like, fucking Scotland. Newcastle. Or like Eskimos or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's all relative, I suppose. Newcastle's the most northern until you hit Scotland, isn't it, basically?
[00:38:39] Unknown:
Yeah. You you think it can't get any worse than than it does. Just joking to anybody that's Scottish that listens to this. There there is one, Scottish chap I know that'll be listening to this, and I'm just sending out my love. It's been a while since we've chatted. Yeah. If we might be thinking about the same one. I'm I'm sure we are. Awful bloke. He's an awful bloke, and he goes to every conference ever, and he loves putting stickers everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We love you. I haven't heard from him for a while either. At jb399, 4000 sats with a fist bump. Thank you, sir. Pizer De Plaeb,
[00:39:13] Unknown:
2,100 sats without a badass American John. I'm falling asleep less than 30 minutes in. Fucking Brits. Loads of emojis. But still, got love for y'all. 420 sats from Pies again. I love running my Bittax. I never play the fiat lottery scam, but I'll play the Bittax lottery again all day, every day, motherfucker. Boyaka, boyaka. Loads of emojis. One spliff a day keeps the evil away. Boioca, boioca, a 1,000 emojis.
[00:39:47] Unknown:
Thank you, Pies. Thank you, man. I'm sorry that we bore you, by the way. He's not even listening anyway because we've already done over 30 minutes. So I feel, yeah, I feel like he he listens to the intro, sends 17 boosts, and then just fucks off. Yeah. That's it to go. We appreciate you, Pies. Thanks. At Hooksley, 1,337 Sats has sent a Rumble link, which I haven't clicked yet, to get paid to run a Tor Relay. Let me just click this link. You're gonna go on a journey with me here, listeners. Let's listen to it live. L Tor. Okay. We'll link it. It looks legit. It's not gonna break my, or get me in prison. High bandwidth Tor network 4, incentivized by the Bitcoin Lightning Network. More decentralized, more secure, relays earn SATs powered by bolt 12 offers.
Okay. Okay. I like that as a concept. Maybe check that out. We'll link that in the show notes. And he's also said best fish and chips are fried in beef dripping and served with Yorkshire tea. Fist bump, England flag, England flag. But he actually wrote the words rather than the emojis, which made me chuckle.
[00:40:49] Unknown:
I'm not sure about a cup of tea with fish and chips. I know that sounds weird from a northern abbot. I don't actually drink tea. So I think a lot of people do that, though. Yeah. It's just weird. I I feel like pint if I was gonna do anything. And beef dripping, I don't know if I've ever had it in beef dripping. That's what, Zach put on there. Because you know he's into all his, like, proper, like, tallow and, like, healthy stuff, isn't he? Yeah. Beef tallow. Yeah. He said something in one of the messages like, oh, I hope that's not in seed oils. And I was like, mate, it's w d 40.
It's fucking like if you get seed oils, you're lucky. Stack them. 1,069 sats. Just a time preference nut speaking here, but high time preference killed your butane. K.
[00:41:37] Unknown:
I'm guessing that autocorrectors screwed this person over. I'm guessing they said bit ax.
[00:41:44] Unknown:
Ah, okay. Urgently trying to get your hash back on versus learning the correct voltage for your butane killed it. Here's some stats so you can buy another one in the future with a little love heart. That's very kind. But, yeah, that's true, q. You don't understand time preference? You fucked yourself up there, mate? Yep. And I don't understand butane either.
[00:42:07] Unknown:
Thank you, stack them. At purple frog of fire breeze sent us a 1,000 sats and just said onwards.
[00:42:14] Unknown:
Foam and Mitronic, a 1,001 sats said nothing.
[00:42:17] Unknown:
Abel, a I b l e, 801 sats, says, I blew up my super the same way brother q did. This is a good cautionary tale. Brother Pies, as usual, makes a good fair point. Perhaps brother q should start trying some impersonations to become a war more well rounded podcaster. Sometimes being jacked and incredibly intelligent just isn't enough. Well, thank you for saying so, Abel. Wow. Yeah. There's a couple of things that you'll never hear me do on this podcast. Impressions is 1. Simp for sale will be number 2. And Only behind post goals? Yes. I keep that to myself. Probably just those 2. Yeah. But impersonations
[00:42:55] Unknown:
is definitely not my bag. Impressions is not my bag either. I sometimes get coerced into doing the odd terrible impression because John does so many and listeners ask. But, yeah, it is, it's not a strong suit for me. Nobody from nowhere, 666. It sort of like balances out, a I b l e, because he's very godly. Q and a finally learned from Max how to fuck around and find out. Those who never fuck around and found out it did not live their lives
[00:43:29] Unknown:
fully. There you are, mate. So if you are looking to fuck around and find out, buy a Bitax, then close your eyes and rummage in that cable drawer that you've got and just plug the first one in that you find. Yeah. Then you may fuck around and find out. Just make sure you disconnect your smoke alarm first. My tour is still running. Oh, you got double the half.
[00:43:48] Unknown:
Yeah. Every time I, walk through the garage, I think, oh, I've done a thing and it works.
[00:43:55] Unknown:
Paul Allen, 500 SATS, said, you mean Durov's phone number requirement hasn't prevented Telegram breach becoming a scammer's paradise? Obviously, sarcasm. And, yes, unfortunately, that hasn't worked. War time 333.
[00:44:09] Unknown:
Rest in peace. I assume that's about your bittacks.
[00:44:13] Unknown:
It is. Thank you, War time. Final one is CryptoNekt, 210 sats, and they just said thank you. Well, thank you, CryptoNekt. And thank you to all of our boosters. We thoroughly enjoy reading them each and every I was gonna say weekend. Every other week. Thank you very much for getting involved, guys. We do we do really appreciate it. We do. And this, little bit is for Jordan. He keeps battering me. He said my last message about
[00:44:37] Unknown:
thanking everyone for value for value was was okay. He gave me the b minus. He said what he'd like me to do is to add in that time, talent, and treasure is also appreciated, meaning artwork or just sharing the show, ideas, questions, or voice mails, or anything that anyone can do to provide value is appreciated. It doesn't just have to be SATs, but we appreciate all the SATs and everyone who contributes in any different way. Hopefully, you like that, Jordan.
[00:45:14] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. It's quite funny how the the truth is really coming out now. Like, until now, most people would have thought that this was your baby that and that you you pull the strings. But little do they know we've got a manager in the background who is a tyrant. He's ruthless. He is an absolute tyrant. He brought John to tears the other day. It's not easy to do either. It's Jordan that really runs this shit. So, if you're listening, Jordan, please don't kill me.
[00:45:41] Unknown:
Sometimes, like, my phone will go off. It's like 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning. And it's just like a list. And just and then it just underneath just says, get it done.
[00:45:51] Unknown:
Got so much to do. The repercussions of I don't do it are just too strong. I woke up to a Telegram message last week from him. Literally, no other contact. He just said, you are not good enough. In all seriousness, should we get back to some actual content with the latest updates and releases? Yes. Love you, Jordan. Bit tax version 2.4.0 has now been released, and I believe this is only for the ballers that like to run the gamma, the latest one that's just, like, a whopping one terra hash. Loads of stuff in here. I'm not gonna read it all, but I think there's been some nice polishing to the UI as well. And loads of bug fixes because, obviously, the gamma is fairly new to the market as well, so I'm sure they're still working through some issues there. So that is very hot off the presses as at the time of recording 17 hours ago. So, I'm gonna say maybe don't upgrade straight away because anytime I've rushed out and done a Bitax release on the day of it was announced, there's always been an issue with it. So I don't know. Maybe give it a couple of days, especially if like me, you have a habit of killing bit taxes and you're down to your last one. Maybe treasure it. Just wait. Yes. Time preference.
There's something I don't know anything about apparently, or BT. Our good friend, mister Dojo Coder, Pavel, has released Boltzmann TS Repo, a typescript library computing the entropy of Bitcoin transactions and the linkability of their inputs and outputs. So this is gonna be very similar to the original kind of Boltzmann tool that used to be part of Dojo and or maybe just Ronin Dojo. But, yeah, as the name suggests, you can kind of scrutinize your own transactions to work out using the Boltzmann theory, how likely an outsider is to be able to link the inputs and outputs. So the release here is a TypeScript version of that. So if that isn't complete, Nice. Gobbledygook to you and you know what TypeScript is, then go ahead and give this one a go. Will do. We have RoboSat version 0.7.2 alpha, including Noster Audible has now been released. Well, the alpha has been released should I say. So this is obviously our resident Noster shill and also one of our Robosat shills, I guess. Big fan of that project. And seeing these 2 come together again, I think we might have mentioned this before, but it does make sense to me. Right? These peer to peer markets are going to come under the crosshairs of regulators because they enable people to circumvent the KYC catch net that is, you know, slowly creeping in by allowing you to purchase from another privacy conscious user. Wonderful. Mhmm. But when you have a centralized order book, that becomes a single point of failure where you take down that central order book and buy buy peer to peer market. Right? So Robosat have already tried to address this by allowing there to be multiple coordinators, which is fantastic. Obviously, you can spin up tool based coordinator, but they've also now added in the ability for the global order book to be shared over the Nostra network, which is somewhat decentralized over a series of, you know, no idea, but lots of different relays. So good to see that they've experimented with this and added in some extra redundancy that is independent of them as a project. Had a quick look this morning, and there's loads of offers on there that are being served over the Nostra network. So it seems to have got some pretty good adoption early on, which is great to see. So if you're a Robosats user, head into the settings and you can switch between the API order book and the Nostra order book with a simple click of a button. So check it out. Excellent. Bitcoin Keeper version 1.2.18 mobile and desktop version 0.1.3 have been released. Early big update this one. You can now select select some servers before doing any action within the application. So you can connect to your owner before setting up wallets, which is obviously a great thing. They have added simplified vault registration for signers.
They've major redesign of the UTXO management and transaction details, They've also revamped their dark mode version as well. So it seems that these guys were pretty quick at shipping anyway, but since Ben Kaufman, Expectowizard has joined the team, they seem to have really stepped up a bit as well. So it seems like he's made a really positive impact over there. So, shout out, Ben. Ben. Hope you're well. Haven't spoke to you for a while, but, sounds like he's doing good work at Keeper. The Zeus boys have released a new product called Zeus White, which is a white glove node management point of sale and integrated enterprise solutions for businesses.
So it sounds as though this is a kind of built on top of the original building blocks they have of the Zeus LSP, where any schmuck like you or I can just go and purchase a channel and use, Lightning in a semi trusted way where we have a single channel with the LSP, Zeus, in this scenario. It looks like they're expanding that now to provide more kind of business like features so that people can have slicker onboarding if you're a merchant so that you don't have to go through all of the usual lightning self custodial headaches that me and Max wax lyrical about on this show every other week. So, yeah, I hope they see some success with this. Early days at the moment. I don't know of any companies using it, but it is literally a couple of days old, the the announcement. So good to see that Evan and the team are looking towards longevity and, you know, getting some money through the door to keep the project going. Because it's an age old problem with, FOSS projects is if you just keep giving shit away for free, then you're gonna fall over eventually, unless you've got a never ending stream of bounties and gifts from HRF, etcetera. Talking about Zeus, we have version 0.9.2 main release has now been announced. We have a couple of core features here. You can export transaction history. You have BIP 353 support, Vault 12, and hardware signer improvements.
So those of you that, like to mess with taxes, you can now export your transaction history. Particularly useful if you're a merchant, you can kind of just export them all in a single CSV file, hand them over to your, accountant to go and deal with all of that headaches. They've also solidified bit 353 and bolt 12 support. So they now have support for bit 353 on chain addresses, which fall back to using bolt 12. So as a quick reminder, this bit 353 is the domain stuff. So what you can have is [email protected]. Yep. And if you try to pay that, what looks like an email address with a bit 353 compatible wallet, what it'll do is ping that DNS server to say, oh, this is a Bitcoin wallet, and I wanna pay this address. What have you got to give me? Looks like Zeus now supports static on chain addresses, so not great for privacy, but you can kind of encode a static on chain address behind that DNS so that it repays to the same address on chain. Or you can also code in a bolt 12 offer there as well. So that if I say that I wanna pay max at ungovernablemisfits.com, it will ping his lightning node using the bolt 12 standard. It will serve my paying wallet with an an invoice, and I can send Max some sats over the lightning network with no direct interaction with Max at all. So this seems very, very cool. I think the only thing that would top this is obviously is to remove that on chain address so that the natural way to do it at the moment would be with something like silent payments, where instead of encoding just a single address, you would put in your silent payments address, and then that framework then will be able to use all of the Taproot magic behind that that powers it to then generate a unique address between sender and recipient.
That is the utopia. We've mentioned it a couple of times, but this came out of left field. I didn't know Zeus is working on this sort of stuff. So very, very cool. I think I'm gonna definitely gonna be testing this one out. I've just when we had that little break there, I just downloaded 0.9.2. So hopefully by, next time we record, I'll be able to give you some live field experience. And then the final one for this release is they've improved the hardware and external signer improvements as well, including Keystone, Passport, and Coldcard. Very cool. Once again, shout out to the Zeus boys. Next up, we have Liana version 8.0. Look at that. Nice and simple. Just 8.0.
No.1327d86. Thank you, Liana, guys. I've never heard of Liana. Am I missing a trick here? It's been around at least a year. However, the reason that you haven't heard much of it is that it is kind of fairly cutting edge, and it uses MiniScript so that you can do all of these fancy different Vault type things. And MiniScript is still in its infancy in terms of adoption as well. So it it's not a surprise to me that it hasn't come across your radar. I've had a quick poke around with it in one of the earlier builds. I haven't tried the version that we talked about now, and I was using an old ledger of mine because it that's one of the earliest hardware devices that supports MiniScript. It is a very powerful thing where you can kind of time lock funds and set fallback keys so you can have, like, degrading multisig and all that sort of stuff. But it is, again, very cutting edge and, you know, in my opinion, not quite ready for for the prime time. But vision 8, looks like they've done some massive upgrades to to the UI to kind of simplify things. They're still things down. They've upgraded to Bitcoin d 28.
They've added BitBox 02 support. So, yeah, it just looks like they're they're walking down the natural path for a fairly new wallet, but they're doing so whilst having very cool mini script support, which I think is gonna be fairly big in the years to come because of what it enables in terms of self custody and also self custody backup so that you can, you know, do some of those things like I've just mentioned in terms of, like, degrading multisig or have external keys and backup keys and things like that, where you can get a little bit more fancy. But again, you know, I'm not urging anybody to go out and put their life savings into this sort of stuff at the moment because it is very nascent. It's a desktop application, by the way, if I didn't make that clear. Don't know whether they've got any plans for for mobile options at the moment. Okay. But from what I can see, the screenshots on NoBULLSHIT Bitcoin, it looks like the UI that they've done is is a big improvement over the last time that I, had a quick poke around. So good to see those guys continuing to iterate as well. Nice. I know you've got another thing on our list, and I think we talked about this already.
[00:55:40] Unknown:
But wouldn't it be lovely if there was Fork of Sparrow that was for mobile? I'm pretty sure we talked about this last week, but, like and, obviously, Craig hasn't got the time to fuck around with that and do that. He's got enough on his plate, but it would be lovely.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
It certainly would. Yeah. I think it would be difficult, though, when you think about all the things that Spiro can do and particularly where it excels in terms of, like, you know, handling multisig and all that sort of stuff. Doing that on a size constrained screen in such an elegant way that Sparrow does on desktop would be something very difficult to pull off in my opinion. And that's probably why you don't see the equivalence in terms of usability yet. There's don't get me wrong. There's some wonderful multisig wallets out there, but they take different, you know, UI choices. But don't get me wrong. I think if he put his mind to it, I'm sure he could probably knock a few spots off the existing implementations.
[00:56:32] Unknown:
It's no mean feat. Yeah. No. No. I'm I'm not suggesting it is, and I'm not even suggesting that it's something that he does. He's got so much on his plate, but it's just I often think, like, I've got a separate laptop that I use just to interact with Sparrow because it is the best thing that I can use. And it sometimes feels a bit silly having a separate laptop to do that. I would quite like to just use a phone, and a lot of people do not even have laptops at all. And they would just use mobile only and I don't know. It just feels like, you know, it was in one of the chats the other day. I think it might have been the Bristol meetup one or something like that. Someone was asking, how do I do this and that? And I wanna try and do it in BlueWallet. And I was like, why? Just fucking use Sparrow. And they're like, oh, I only have mobile. I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I think there's there's definitely a gap in the market, and I think that your best options right now would be something like Blue or Nunchuk if you're looking to stick with a mobile option. Or indeed Keeper as well. I know they have really wide ranging support for, a lot of signers, whereas Blue is a bit more restricted. So there are some good options, so I'd say poke around with what's available.
[00:57:35] Unknown:
Okay. Last one on the updates and releases is a new mobile app, ironically, after the conversation we just had, called mempal. This is, quote, the essential Bitcoin mempool monitoring tool. Oh. It is essentially using the mempool.space API to give you all of your nerdy Bitcoin stats. So size of the mempool, block heights, fee rates for, you know, next block, 2 block, 4 block, no next day, and then all of the usual fee distributions and things like that. So all of the common stuff that you get in the main page on mempool, you can now get that in an open source application called mempal. Sorry, Apple fanboys. This is Android only. It looked pretty cool. I think this would be a good addition to my Graphene phone. Definitely one I'm gonna check out. Okay, mate. Shall we hit some questions? I know we've got one from our Lord and savior, Jordan. And we also have voice mail, I believe. Should we hit the voice mail first maybe? Before you do, maybe we remind people how to how they can send one in. Yeah. It's been a while since we've had any voice mails. I check every day, and no one sends them. Makes me very sad. But today, you can send us a voice mail on Telegram.
[00:58:38] Unknown:
You can send me an MP 3. You can send it to q. You can send it to Jordan. You can send it on any communication.
[00:58:49] Unknown:
Just say just send us a voice note via any communication method possible. That you want, basically.
[00:58:55] Unknown:
Just send just send us a recording and we will play it. I fucked that up. That was terrible. I don't know what I don't know how to say it. You can just send us a voice note on any app and fucking hell. I can't even do it, mate. Why can't I speak?
[00:59:13] Unknown:
I don't know, q. Why don't you tell us? Just drop us a voice note. Doesn't matter whether it's on Telegram, Signal, Simplex, anything like that. If you have a question, just record a quick voice, note and send it through to us. And as long as you're happy for it to be played out on the show, we will definitely answer that question for you. Just, keep it clean and keep it legal. Oh,
[00:59:32] Unknown:
I'd also add if you have any updates. So if you're a dev and you're working on a project, no shitty scammy stuff. But if you're working on something and you want us to know something particularly cool, you can send us a voice note for that as well. It's not just questions. Let's check our voice mail. This is Max and q from The Bitcoin Brief. Sorry we can't answer right now. I'm busy editing, and Q is in the gym training his calves. So please leave us a message after the tone.
[01:00:10] Unknown:
We welcome topic suggestions, show feedback, and questions on anything FreedomTech related. Please direct all number go up queries and politician simping to a nearby Twitter influencer.
[01:00:24] Unknown:
Hi, Max. Hi, q and a. Thanks for the hotline. Since the most recent price action, there are a lot of people interested in stacking SUDs now. Now if people are so retarded as me, they end up losing passphrases and stuff like that. So this is my question at the moment, how can I help them keep their passphrases safe without them having to trust me? Do you have any solution for that? Thank you.
[01:00:54] Unknown:
Thank you for your questions, Alex. Yeah. Thank you. So he mentioned passphrases there, but then he also talked about normies. So I was gonna presume that he actually meant seed phrases given that we're kinda keeping it simple and talking about normies. But just had a quick chat with him on Telegram while we've been recording, and he said maybe both. So I'll cover off the simple one first in terms of seed phrases and normies, and then I'll take it to the next step with passphrases as well. The obvious answer for me would be to get them to use something like Envoy. If they use the simple setup, they automatically have a backup encrypted into their cloud. So they would just tap, tap, tap. They get a mobile wallet. They're able to generate receive addresses. They can send and receive Bitcoin in literally 30 seconds, and then they all have an automatic encrypted cloud backup such that if they choose to ignore the warnings and never write down their seed phrase, then also we'd need to do if they lost their phone or deleted the Envoy app is grab a new phone, download the Envoy app. As long as they're signed into their Icloud account or their Google account, it will automatically pull that encrypted data back down and restore access to the wallet. Obviously, as a friend of a normie, we have a responsibility to make sure that they understand the concept of seed words and stuff. So I would also urge them to say, look, this type of wallet will automatically back it up for you, but you don't wanna put all your eggs in one basket and just have the cloud be your only option. That might not be too detrimental because at the end of the day, it's a mobile wallet. It's not designed for your life savings and obviously be very clear about that. It would cover off the use case of just getting somebody onboarded very quickly to show them and give them that wow moment without needing to go, okay. These are seed words. They operate on the BIP 39 standard. You need to write them down. You need to stamp them into steel. Like, you can postpone that for a little bit while they just get their feet under the table and are able to just start using this and kind of because that's where the orange billing happen is when they see it happen, and when they're actually able to send and receive transactions without needing
[01:02:43] Unknown:
to phone up the bank and ask for permission, etcetera. So if you can get them to do that first without having to go through the horrible hurdle of all of the BIP 39 seed word stuff, to win in my opinion. But it definitely should be part of somebody's onboarding, I would say. Is it, though? I know this is literally your job, so it's stupid me questioning you on this in in many ways, but I actually don't agree. I don't like the idea of, like, making it so simple for them that they don't even have to write down 12 or 24 words. I feel like trying to do things and having encrypted backups and all that kind of stuff, like, it's a cool option to have. But just as a friend, if I'm setting someone up, I just wouldn't even give them that option. I would go straight to, we're gonna set this up. I'm gonna look away. You're gonna write these down. You're gonna make 2 copies. You're gonna check through and just double and triple and quadruple check, and you're gonna store these in in separate places just in case one burns down or whatever. Like, you don't even have to get to stamping steel or any of that kind of stuff, like but you are going to fucking do this, and you are gonna write them down, and you understand that this is the key. Because I just don't think it's that hard. I feel like people make maybe too much of a fuss of, like, how difficult it is to write down a couple of words on a piece of paper. Like, kids can do it at fucking school at a couple of years old. I'm pretty sure an adult can do it. Yeah. I agree with everything that you just said and definitely think that we shouldn't obfuscate
[01:04:06] Unknown:
the fact that seed words exist and their importance in a self custody setup at all. I just think that depending on the user, obviously, that's the crucial part here is who you're trying to onboard or who you're helping. It could be a good idea to defer it even for a small amount of time. It just depends on the user essentially. But, yeah, BIP 30 9 seed words need to be kind of introduced and the importance of them explained at the right time for the right person. When that is will depend on that person. In terms of keeping them, obviously, you're gonna want a physical copy of them. But if it's just a simple set of seed words and it's just a mobile wallet, then it's, you know, I would just say as simple as just keep a copy of these in a safe at home. You don't need to overcomplicate it more than that. Now depends on the user. If this user is a high net worth individual and you're onboarding your millionaire friend, and they're gonna lump a $1,000,000 in dollars. And then I'm gonna say probably don't sell them to use Envoy and not back up the seed. It's obviously it's very much horses for courses at that point then. Well, in that scenario, I'd probably pay for some professional help because they're clearly not sure of a penny or 2 and, you know, a couple of £100 seeking this the advice of a of a professional to maybe help them set up something more secure is is a drop in the ocean and would be the right thing to do. Well, I tell people who
[01:05:18] Unknown:
are not that technically savvy or, like, a more boomer generation, I always tell them buy a passport, pay for the setup. Not I say always. Mhmm. Any of the boomers who I've spoken to or people who have actually listened, they're buying, like, in the tens of 1,000. It's not like 50 quid or a 100 quid or 20 quid. It's like 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand, whatever it is, like, they're buying a decent chunk. And to those people, not even in, like, oh, I'm buying a million. If you're buying $10 upwards and you're a bit of a retard, you're not technically savvy, just fucking pay the $99. Personally, I just think that is worth it, and I like doing that with people as well because I don't want to be
[01:06:00] Unknown:
solely responsible for the setup. I might sit there and listen in, or I might be involved and be there to hold their hand if they need it. But for $99, I think it's crazy not to. Yeah. Definitely. And to cap off the second part of the question around passphrases, this might be controversial. But if I'm onboarding somebody, I just would tell them not to use a passphrase at all. And I appreciate that might be controversial, but there's a time and a place. And when you're onboarding and you're just getting started, you just don't need that added complexity, in my opinion. Thoughts?
[01:06:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Craig said the same to me last time he was on. Again, I disagree. That's just me being, like, overly paranoid, and it could be to the detriment of friends and family at some point in their lives if they don't listen. But I just I really hate the idea of all eggs being in one basket. People don't like the idea of splitting seeds, and they're keeping those in separate locations. And so Mhmm. I don't like the idea of keeping everything in one place. I don't like the idea of telling someone, stamp this and sustain or or save this in in a written down format, which can be read by anybody.
And then them not put it somewhere that actually is that safe, or they put it in a safe and then they're robbed, and then, you know, someone just has it laid there in front of them. They don't have that belt and braces where, you know, someone goes, oh, fucking hell. Okay. I've got these 12 or 24 words. Let's sweep this wallet. Oh, there's either a small amount or nothing on there. And now because they've done the passphrase, they've saved themselves. Like, even if it's not the world's best passphrase, like, it's a damn sight better.
I don't think the leap between having store these 12 or 24 words and store this thing and keep them in separate locations is that is actually that difficult, I personally
[01:07:45] Unknown:
I agree. The storage part is easy. But when we get into passphrases, like, it's more the understanding and the implications of what the passphrase does and how it interacts with the seed words, especially it's just an open text field. Right? Like, one typo, and it's game over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you think you've yes. So it's the the storage bit is the easy part. Like, that's not the problem for me. It's more the implications of doing it wrong if you don't fully understand how they work and how they operate. That's the impetus for me to say that newbies shouldn't be doing that. Again, very situationally dependent on who it is, how much money they're storing, and, you know, what the stakes are, of course. Like, I'm not gonna say Yeah. Throw a full Bitcoin on a mobile wallet, you know, but but in the in the same vein, if you're throwing a $100 in, you're getting used to it, then you don't need a hardware wallet and you don't need a passphrase. Okay. Pushing back on that a little bit.
[01:08:36] Unknown:
What about let's imagine we have a complete fuckwit. Like, they're not technically capable at all, but they've got a decent chunk of money. You set them up. You use Envoy. They have a passport. Let's say they have a passphrase on there. If they're receiving their and you only save their account on their phone with the passphrase so that when they receive, they go onto their mobile device and press receive. It it generates an address. If they're ever being sent any money, it's gonna go to the right one. Okay? They don't have to remember their passphrase and where the seed words are and how to do all that. All they do is they go on their mobile. They press receive. Done. Mhmm. Okay? They can use their passport to check and be double sure that it's the right address. If they wanna be extra paranoid, fine. But they can't, like, shoot themselves in the foot and be have it sent to the wrong address. Correct. The only time they're gonna have an issue is they have to go and spend those funds, and then they go on and they're like, oh, I can't spend the funds. And it's because they've forgotten to put in the passphrase. And they're like, oh, I can't do it.
But unless it's like Mhmm. Urgent situation where someone's kidnapped their family, and they have to pay it within an hour and they can just pick the phone up to their friend to go, oh, I can't get it to send. And then the person will say, okay. Have you put in the passphrase? Oh, what's that again? Well, you know you had those 2 separate things, and one's in this safe, one's in that safe. They're in different locations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, one of them is the passphrase, and you need to put that this is what I mean. It's just not that hard. And most people who are who are storing decent wealth generally are boomers because they got all the fucking money. So they're the ones who are storing it, and then generally not using it. Like, they are generally using it just to store some value. And they're thinking, oh, I might pass that onto my kids, or I might save it for my when I properly retire or whatever it is. So they're not like they're going, oh, I'm gonna go and buy this new fucking whatever, some gadget or or Bitcoin y thing. They're they're just it's just sat there. Yes. The bit that you're overlooking is
[01:10:43] Unknown:
when they set that wallet up, the passphrase wallet, they applied what they thought was their passphrase, on passport and then connected it to OnVoice so they can see their passphrase account. Yeah. Let's say let's keep it simple. They wanted the passphrase 123abc. Yeah. What they actually typed because they were a bit overzealous and they didn't check it was 124abd. Okay. Okay. Yes. Then they go and deposit over the course of the next 5 or 10 years because they don't spend it the rest of their life savings feeling nice and safe. And then they come to spend, yes, they can find their passphrase backup that's in the safe and it says 123abc.
But when they type it into Passport, Passport can't sign for those transactions because it's a completely different wallet. That's what I was talking about earlier where I was like, you really need to understand the implications here because a single typo can destroy your life. I understand. And that's a fair point. But it is also the same as if you write your 12 or 24 words down wrong, except that you also have your passport, which has them stored. So that's like a second backup. I get your point. Yeah. That makes sense. With the seed words, it's a predefined list. Right? Passphrases are an open text field. You can put what you want in there. So, yeah, it's, I I get where you're coming from though. Like, it's not a massive leap for most people, but just be very, very careful, especially when you're onboarding newbies. Don't get them to run before they can walk. The way just to ramp that off then would be if you are suggesting they use a passphrase,
[01:12:05] Unknown:
would be that you make sure they do a proper backup and restore after doing a small spend to that wallet using the passphrase and make sure they triple check their passphrase is written down correctly and they have 2 copies the same as the other thing. That that's the only way around
[01:12:21] Unknown:
that fuck up, which, yeah, I was overlooking. Yeah. And, again, that's what I'm I'm talking about where you need to understand the implications in how to set it up properly by doing stuff like that before you start depositing your life savings in there. So, yeah, I agree. Okay. Okay. We have a couple of questions from the socials. Number 1 on Twitter from Drink Ore. It's been quiet on the Ashigaru front. What's your thoughts? I can't help but be very suspicious of it. It's like the CIA came in and removed a leader of a country and then replaced it with one of their own brackets. Samurai out. Ashigaru in. Quick and ruthless. Also, fuck n v k. His words, not mine.
[01:13:01] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know. I I think it's gonna be really difficult for trust to be built, and I think that only comes with time and code review because whoever is behind Ashigaru can't tell anyone who they are. They can't really be that public facing. I think anyone who's followed this story can understand why. So it's gonna be difficult to build trust. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's behind it as long as the code is good and that no data is leaked and that people are using their own notes and all that kind of stuff. That would be my take on it. I just think it's time. What about you, mate? I couldn't have said it better myself. I literally don't have another word to add to that. I think you nailed it. Oh, thank you, mate. You're welcome. I feel really good now. But I'll also just can I just add one more thing is that whoever is behind it, we appreciate you? Agreed. And it was something that needed to be done sticking your neck out like that and doing something like that can't have been easy. It is appreciated.
Yes. We don't know who is behind it, but I would urge anyone who's able to to go and review the code to use it, to test it, and report on it. And and there will come a point where we can all feel more comfortable about it and start to use it, and no one else has done it and stuck their neck out. So appreciate you. Cosign that. Final question is from Henry on Nosta
[01:14:19] Unknown:
who asks, how would q and a brackets not max? Smiley face.
[01:14:25] Unknown:
Fuck's sake.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
Make an NUC less noisy. So this is NUCs or NUCs, the, little mini desktop computers. Is it with FAFEM around in the BIOS, or should I change some parts? I'm running a BTC full node on 1, and I want to run another for a start 9 server, but things are surprisingly noisy. Now that you're our resident hardware guru, what do you think, mate? Well, he specifically said not to answer even though I do run a NUC, and I have actually had this issue, and I could answer it perfectly. I'm not going to. You're probably better suited to answer it because mine is whisper quiet with the exception of when it's, like, booting up or doing some re indexing or something like that. So I don't actually have this issue. So I was gonna suggest maybe a different fan or something like that, but let's see what the expert has to say. I would say a different fan or see if you can find another cooling solution.
[01:15:15] Unknown:
So it might be that you just remove the fans and find some other way of cooling it, like a cooling tower, or you can have different parts that have cooling in them. I don't know if you saw when you're ordering your NVME, you can have, like, self cooling NVME and different things like that. So it might just be an old noisy fan, and that can be ripped out. But I don't have a a noise problem with mine. The start line running on the Starbuck, that's actually
[01:15:41] Unknown:
pretty quiet. It's funny you should say that because the Starbuck I've got is the noisiest machine I owned. Sounds like a Jet Play. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I I don't put a note on it, but if I do anything heavy on it like, video editing or something like that, then
[01:15:54] Unknown:
it it it's quite embarrassing in coffee shops. I can't remember if I had that problem when I was trying to run it as a normal laptop. But, yeah, it must be just that it isn't under that much strain with what I'm throwing at it with running the notes and all that kind of stuff. It just maybe isn't that much of a problem, but it sat literally right next to me. It's within it's within a foot or 2 of this mic, and it's not causing any problems there. So it you know, compared to like a bit ax, I couldn't have in the same room that had to go in the garage. So, yeah, I don't know. I would say probably see if you can find some other way of cooling or see if you could run it in a different room maybe. You know, it could be under some stairs or or in a garage or I don't know. If you wire it, it shouldn't be an issue. There we go. Let us know how you get on, Henry. And get a Mac. If you don't wanna be embarrassed in a coffee shop. I know everyone gets really annoyed by that, but a MacBook Pro is actually just a better laptop. They do look good. I'll give you that. Well, not just look good. They look good. They feel good. They make zero noise. The battery life is good on them. They just work. Hard to disagree. They're just really, really good. Yes. They are cucked. And, yes, you're not as cool as a Linux boy, and, like, you don't look as cool in the fucking coffee shop and all that stuff.
[01:17:04] Unknown:
But you get more done. Alright, mate. That rounds out the show. Any other, business for me? Didn't we have Jordan bleating in our ears about something? Oh, yeah. Oh, god. I'm gonna get absolutely ruined for that, aren't I? You he would've fucking
[01:17:19] Unknown:
he'd have put a hair on you, I reckon. Jesus
[01:17:22] Unknown:
Christ. What have I just done? Okay. Question from, our head honcho, Jordan, the one that pulls all the strings. Yeah. Since the last brief, lots of parents on opt out, which is very good, by the way. Go and check it out. That was very good. And James OB's in-depth piece, both of these will be linked in the show notes. His James OB's piece was called the consensus conundrum, have reignited discussions about the limitations of Bitcoin's current implementation and the stakeholders who wish to maintain it. A significant point raised by both was the role of exchanges as de facto layer 2 scaling solutions. Side note, Samari Wallet and T Dev would commonly highlight the exchanges as the most prominent layer 2 solution. Hashtag free samurai. Agreed. Oh, this is a quote from T Dev, which is very good actually. We have rapid emergence of de facto layer 2, so it's not lightning. It's not liquid. It's very much something controlled by private sector entities, PayPal, Cash App, Revolut, Robinhood, and there are others. And they are basically taking a lot of activity off chain. So you can see the effects on the mempool, which ironically I put out a tweet just the other day that said $91,000 per coin and 4 or 3 or 4 sats per byte. So basically what T Dev just tweeted here. Continue with the quote, but they're also very much controlling of what users can do with what they call Bitcoin. Basically, it's an account based system where people believe they have Bitcoin, but they basically have a Bitcoin value in an account. And of course, these entities will very much overlook the fungibility of the controller. That was from TDEV in in 2021 of all time. So, good that was up for foresight.
So with that in mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts on LOPS and James Hobie's critique regarding Bitcoin's present state and its future trajectory. What insights do you have on their perspectives? Okay. So a lot of what I'm about to say might not make sense unless you have listened to lop with Seth on opt out. Again, link in the show notes. And read James' Obie's tweet, which again link will be in the show notes. The quick summarization of it is that there is a big shift towards, or big resistance to any form of change in Bitcoin at the moment. Both of them kind of allude to the fact of why this might be. I have my own thoughts, mainly because it's anybody that's ever held Bitcoin at this point in time when we record is in profit in nominal terms. The longer that you've been in Bitcoin, the more nominal gains that you've seen in terms of dollars or pounds, etcetera. So if you're one of those people, which is basically anybody in Bitcoin, then Bitcoin works for you right now. If the main impetus as to why you need it is to protect your wealth, hide from inflation, etcetera, etcetera. I know I'm not speaking for everybody here. You know, it is a transactional tool, and I want it to stay that way, but that's a side note. Anybody that's in that camp, which is the majority, whether we like it or not, thinks Bitcoin works. So they're all of the thought process. Well, okay. If it works now, why would we risk upsetting the Apple cart? Why should we make any changes when, you know, we want to hide from inflation and we want them to go up because that's my primary use case for Bitcoin? If that is, that's fine. Great. And I can understand your viewpoint as to why you wouldn't wanna change it. So that's my first thought on that. Yeah. So to go back to the resistance piece around, like, people don't want this to change, and it's very hard to get changes in Bitcoin. James Obi had a great point around that in recent years, we've had a lot or many of the old guard kind of step away. These old guard were kind of pivotal in terms of they they had big voices, and they were able to be quite influential when it comes to making changes or significant changes to Bitcoin. And that the voices that we have right now, they they paint themselves as janitors, and and they kind of will do what the community wills, which is partially a good thing because, you know, we don't want centralized control. We don't want kind of a dictatorship because as soon as you paint somebody as the head honcho here, that's able to make all of the decisions and say, right, here's the direction Bitcoin's going in. That's a single point of failure, and we just turn it to PayPal. So it's a damned if you do and a damned if you don't. And I understand why these people are not willing to put their head above the parapet to be able to, you know, really drive something, especially if they've got maintainer access. So that leaves us in a position where any change, it's kind of like just a bit crazy really, trying to gain any form of rough consensus via people whose voices matter. So there's a resistance to change. Nobody wants to put their head above the parapet to to kind of drive change, and those that do get attacked by people that don't want change.
So that makes them not want to do it and kind of gets us in this stall position where we're doing nothing because it's difficult to do anything. I will let you come in there because I just wanna think about some more points on this one because it is a very, very good question. I agree. I mean, there's more at stake for more people than there ever has been,
[01:22:06] Unknown:
and I think people do view it as, like, a tool that is very, very good. Very few people understand the tool well enough to understand what a change could do. That's why they're scared about making any changes. And I lump myself in that group as well. Like, unless there are changes that really matter to me. Like, if someone came out tomorrow and went, no. I can make this change where we somehow magically can still verify the supply. At the same time, we can make every spend completely private, and we can do some magic where it makes it impossible to track and link and everything else while still maintaining that 21,000,000 and that we know that that can't be changed. And someone put that out there. I'd be like, well, okay. I'm now gonna spend a lot of time looking into this and working out if it's something that I want because this is something that matters to me. But if someone is rolling out an idea that could potentially fuck Bitcoin up completely, it's for a benefit that I don't really see as a benefit. I'm like, don't change it then.
[01:23:13] Unknown:
Yes. So I agree. I I'm partially in that camp as well, but there are consequences to that. That will mean that Bitcoin can no longer continue to scale at all. We've got partial scaling in lightning, but as we have established that scale payments and not really users, like, it doesn't even Mhmm. Touch the sides when it comes to talking about, like, 8,000,000,000 people trying to use this thing. And what that means then is that the Bitcoin will slowly fall into the hands of of a few regulated custodians over the course of long periods of time. But when people take the easy option, or they don't like they don't wanna pay the fees if the fees ever start to increase in the future as adoption continues to grow, That then poses risk around a few people holding large bags and being able to have large voices. We're already moving into that space. But if we don't continue to change and allow people to interact with the network trustlessly by making changes like covenants or think or any of the the alternative proposals, then that is a real risk. So I sit in the well, I sit in both camps similar to you where, yes, I don't wanna be reckless, but do we need to make changes if we want this to remain a decentralized network that anybody can easily interact within a trustless manner? Then it's, you know, it's not an uncontroversial opinion to say, yes. We absolutely have to make some changes. Yeah. You know, what those changes are and which ones are the best? Unfortunately, at the moment, it's way above my pay grade. But I because the the the fallback from that otherwise is that we have a bifuricated system where we have the regulated KYC stuff that most people interact with, and then we have the naught point 1 percent of users that hold enough and are knowledgeable enough that they are able to use something like the Lightning Network where they can go and do it themselves, but the amount of people they've got to be able to interact with is is fairly limited because everybody else wasn't able to get onboarded or didn't have the know how or the the interest to be able to go through all those hoops.
So it's it's a very, very difficult one, and and, you know, Lopp and James OB painted it far more eloquently than I ever could. So I urge everybody to go out and check those. But, yeah, I sit in the camp of there definitely needs to be changes to be made at the moment in the current landscape with my current knowledge. I think CTV would be a good idea, but, yeah, who knows what the future is gonna hold?
[01:25:29] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, it's like a beautiful listed building. You don't wanna make changes that are gonna make it ugly or changes that are unnecessary, but you're still gonna need to do bits of plumbing and maintenance. And I think they covered, you know, there's the quantum stuff potentially in the future. There's the problem, like you said, that not everyone can use lightning, that it can't scale to to every user on the planet. Well Yeah. That may be so, but we also we're far, far, far, far, far, far from every person in the world wanting to use Bitcoin. Like, 99% of the world couldn't give a fuck at the moment. It doesn't mean that we don't get there and, you know, we always need to be looking to make changes. I just think it's really hard for, like, the majority of people to understand what's going on under the hood. It's so complicated, and you don't know what these changes are gonna affect that people are scared of, of making the changes. So that that's why we need, like, the technical people that can explain this well. I think, you know, Lobb did a good job of of going through that with Seth, and, it's worth people listening to that. But I don't know. Like I said before, I don't even know really what CTV is gonna do. I don't know if I want it. I'm just not confident enough about anything to make any decisions because I'm not technical. So I always have to ask, you know, like you've just said, you think you like the idea of it. Mhmm. It gets closer to a time where that might get pushed. I'm then gonna be badgering you and questioning, what about this? What about that?
And and just have to ask someone who knows more. And you'll be doing the same to someone else, and they'll be doing the same to someone else. And, yeah, it's not easy.
[01:27:06] Unknown:
Indeed. So hope that answers your question, Jordan. Great question, by the way. And, yeah. Yeah. Thanks, mate. I will, catch you in 2 weeks, Max. Okay, mate. We'll talk about CTV.
[01:27:17] Unknown:
Cheers, dude. Alright, mate. Speak to you later.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking 0. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every 2 weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x, xyz. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the K Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cakewallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cakepay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. I'm really looking forward to getting Seth and some of the other team members back on the show soon, and I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Good morning.
[00:02:51] Unknown:
Good morning, sir. How are you?
[00:02:53] Unknown:
I am excellent. How are you?
[00:02:56] Unknown:
I am slightly less than 100%. It's quite funny. We were talking about fish and chips and food that's generally not that good for you on the last show. I, had a Chinese last night and it's, let's just say it's not sitting all that well. Oh, dear. It's certainly right for eating that sort of shit, but it's, yeah, it's one of them things. What did you go for? I had a salt and pepper box and then some, god. What's it called? Charmaine? No. I did have a bit of Charmaine, but that wasn't mine. That was somebody else. It just, like, nicked a little bit of it. But mainly it was sweet and sour box, and I can't remember the name of the other thing. Okay. But, it was very, very tasty. Very fucking expensive as well. Oh, yeah. He fell over when I saw the bill. Jesus.
[00:03:41] Unknown:
Yeah. It's mental. The rare occasion we'll do it, I always just think, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah. You'd order for, like, a couple of people, and you think, oh, just get, like, an extra side or whatever. And you're like, oh, that's a day's work.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
And you always have so much food left over, don't you? Especially the Chinese. Oh, yeah. Chinese is is quite good for that. But it's quite nice the next day unless you're feeling rough. Oh, I'm not one of those people. I can't do the leftover food. No. No. Doesn't even matter. Like, it's not even just for Chinese, like, any food. That's all. Like, if it's if it's been sat for even an hour, like, I'm not touching it. I'm not going back there. Okay. Quite soft then. Yeah. It could be said. Yeah. My missus is like that. I just I'm sort of, like, the level slightly above the dog.
[00:04:28] Unknown:
Even, like, 2, 3, 4 days in the fridge with things, I'll eat. Oh, will you reheat though? You you're not a complete animal. Okay. No. I'll reheat. I won't eat a Chinese cold out the fridge. I mean, that is proper. That's mental. I'll reheat it, but then there's, like, past that sort of 4 days is probably the cutoff really for me. Past that, then I'll say, no. I'm sorry. That's going to you, mate. And the dog will smash it. Like, if there's, like, additional organisms starting to grow on top of it. Oh, yeah. No. I won't do that. I wouldn't I wouldn't ever put him at risk, but I think dog's stomachs are a little bit tougher. My my stomach is pretty decent, and then his is just a level above. But, yeah, no shitting going on at the house at the moment, which is good. But I'll tell you what happened yesterday, and this has really pleased me. We had new carpets in this rental place we're in probably 8 months ago, something like that. So they're basically new, and we've been working really hard to keep them all nice and thinking, well, when we leave, we're not gonna have to pay for new ones.
And yesterday, I had maybe, like, 30 seconds of quiet. And I was like, oh, it's Lucky you. Quiet down there. That's quiet. I wonder what's happening. And I walked downstairs, and then I heard, and I was like, what the fuck is that noise? And there is my little one with a hairdryer on hot, holding it onto the carpet, and just burning holes through the carpet. So we've got these big black ring marks that have burnt the whole way through, like, right down, completely fucking destroyed the carpet.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
Oh, god. That is that is horrendous.
[00:06:20] Unknown:
Right in the middle as well. It's not even, like, in a throw sofa over the top of it. No. It's, like, literally couldn't be more central. I'm, like, thinking about, oh, maybe there can be a rug or something sort of to do it right now in case there's an inspection, but when we leave, definitely new carpet. No question. Ouch. Anyway, what else was going on? What's going on in the Bitcoin world?
[00:06:41] Unknown:
Well, not necessarily the Bitcoin world, but it is tangential to it. As you know, we this is not a politician show, but this is a very important topic. Orange man got elected. Mhmm. You did. Which many Bitcoiners are happy about. Yes. And it does look like there is a distinct possibility that he might stay true to his word and that Ross might be coming home within a couple of months, which I am very, very, very happy about, and hopefully everybody listening to this is as well. There's been a couple of tweets from the, you know, officially unofficial account for Ross that he kind of obviously, his people are using to kind of so that he can communicate with the rest of the world through, have confirmed that they've been in contact and that it does look like it's going to happen.
Obviously, don't wanna count my chickens until, you know, he's literally walking outside of those walls and he's reunited with his family after, you know, over 11 years wrongfully jailed. Very promising, but, yeah, I I don't wanna get too my hopes up too high, but, it's it's looking good at the moment that he's he's gonna walk free, early next year, hopefully, which is wonderful news. That would be
[00:07:46] Unknown:
incredible. I have to be honest, like, I was thinking, shit. I just don't think he's ever gonna get out of there. Mhmm. The team around him and everyone trying to help, and his mum, bless her, just, like, working nonstop, doing everything that she could to help. And I just I couldn't help looking at the situation and thinking, it's so disgusting and wrong, but I just can't see him ever getting out. So I would love to be proven wrong there. It would be amazing.
[00:08:16] Unknown:
It really would. Yeah. Like, this sort of stuff means so much more to I'm sure I speak for you here openly that to the both of us that this is better than any, you know, nominal all time high and us getting healthier than we were 2 months ago. Like, this is what it's all about. This is what really moves the needle. So fingers crossed, orange man stays, true to his words, and we can get Ross out. I'll be Yeah. That would make my year. In other news, I've been having a bit of fun with PayPal. Like, did you see my tweets? Yeah. I did.
[00:08:47] Unknown:
I saw you saying I've been forced to use PayPal, and I just thought, let's see how this goes.
[00:08:54] Unknown:
So so for those that don't follow me on Twitter or haven't seen my tweets, I was selling a household item, and the buyer insisted that they wanted to pay me via PayPal, which is fair enough. Okay? It's you know, I begrudgingly said that's fine. I've had my PayPal account for years to, you know, interface with eBay and all that sort of crap. Gone through all of the usual KYC, so it's it's not like I'm a new account or with some suspicious activity. Admittedly, I don't use it a lot. This is one of the first sales I ever did via PayPal. Normally, I'm just using it to purchase stuff, but this guy wanted to buy this thing from me and he was insistent on using PayPal. So I was, okay, fine. So he he sent the money over. Immediately, they released like 5% of the funds. It wasn't a couple £100 worth of stuff, it was, you know, a couple £1,000 worth of stuff. They said, oh, yeah. No problem. You can withdraw, a £100 now, and the other couple of 1,000 you're gonna have to wait for, I think you said 90 days.
The thing that I'm selling is being posted, and obviously I ain't letting it go until I've got all the money. So I said to the guy, I said, look, you know, they're making me wait 90 days here. And I said, I'm not gonna be posting this stuff until the funds are in my bank, unfortunately. So we were both buyer and the seller side of things. We're both trying to jump through hoops to see what we could do to kind of release the funds quicker because I wanted the money and he wanted the goods naturally. Mhmm. Did all of the the steps that they said to move things along, things like posting proof of, like, postage and the tracking ID and things like that, that were all scheduled ready to go, pictures of the items, all that sort of stuff. So did all of that and it was still saying, yep. Yeah. You're not getting your funds for another 90 days. It's like, okay. Great. So I said to the fella, I said, look. You're gonna have to just cancel this, and we'll look at an alternative. And he's like, no. No. It's it's fine. We'll get through this. Another hour passes, and I get a separate email from PayPal to say, we no longer want to do business with you. We've terminated your account. Any funds that are locked, you can you can re you can have them back in a 120 days. Oh, for fuck's sake.
So I reached out to the sport. I was like, what's going on? I've, you know, jumped through all the hoops. Why are you closing my account? Usual stuff I've seen it time and time again. They give you no explanation. They just say you've breached the community guidelines, and they're closing your account without recourse. That's all the information we're allowed to provide you. There's nothing you can do about it. That's it. So the the Peanut Gallery on Twitter were were having a bit of a chuckle when I posted an hour late to say that they've closed my account, which I kinda found it pretty funny after I got over the annoyance of having to jump through all these hoops. Luckily it did let me cancel the or refund the buyer all of his money so that I didn't have to wait for it and he got it back immediately and then we've knocked down other channels. But, yeah, the whole experience was just absolutely horrendous and makes me somewhat bullish basically on Bitcoin and Lightning. I know we regularly, for good reason, slate on the UX around self custodial Lightning. But if normies are going to do this shit with PayPal every single day and this is considered the norm, then fuck me. You can run a start 9, you can spin up a phoenix or a Zeus, and you can make it work because I wouldn't wish that on my worst anime experience I had that day. The amount of time I wasted going back and forth and just it was like speaking to a brick wall. So, yeah, it was just a complete nightmare experience and one that I wish to never have again. Well, ironically, I can never have it again because they've closed my account without recourse. So account. Bye bye PayPal. When when PayPal
[00:12:17] Unknown:
fucked up on the transaction and they ended up paying, like, an enormous minor fee, maybe it was about a year ago, then they got refunded by whoever mined that block. Can you remember that? It was probably like Yeah. It does ring a bell. Yes. It was about a year ago. And I remember thinking at the time because it'd been a long time since I've used PagePal, but similar sort of situations as as you've just experienced. I was thinking, please, if there's any good in the world, you keep that fee. It was something like It was a lot. Cheap. Right? It was a lot. I think it was the biggest one ever. It was like 1,000,000 of dollars. And I was thinking, you have to keep this and then send something like, I'm afraid we're closing your account. We no longer want to work with you. Please don't use our service anymore. That would have been amazing. So you fucked up there, whoever that was. It was some, like, Asian guy Was it f two Paul? Yeah. I think it may have been. Yeah. I think it may have been, but you fucked up there. Yeah. You had the chance to quite literally get one over on the man, and you failed. Yeah. Yeah. You And now the man's got one over on me.
Fuck you, PayPal. Yes. Cosign that.
[00:13:28] Unknown:
In other news, we have the new foundation community is now live. We talked about this well, I alluded to this last week, but I was putting the finishing touches to it. And for anybody who missed that show, we at Foundation are moving away from Telegram as our primary kind of community discussion. For obvious reasons, just absolutely rife with scammers. Just this kind of seems like an unfixable problem at the moment where admins in Bitcoin groups just get impersonated. Telegram doesn't seem to do a lot to kind of prevent that. They wait for unsuspecting users to ask for support in the Foundation Group or the Start Line Group or anything similar to that. And then they will reach out to that user who is normally a new user, an unsuspecting user that doesn't know any better. They'll reach out to them via DMs, offer them some support, and socially engineer them into, either typing in their seed words into a malicious website or just getting them to give them their seed words.
And, yeah. So we just decided enough, you know, if, like, if if Telegram can't prevent it, we certainly can't prevent it, then we're just gonna just cut ties with it. Stop our customers and our, fans being able to even talk about our products there, as sad as that is, and enable that conversation to take place in somewhere in a location where we have much more control, where we know we can prevent people from getting hurt. So, yeah, our new Foundation Community Forum is now live. You can visit it at community.foundation.xyz. It's built on top of the very powerful open source software called Discourse, which is like forum software, which has loads of customizations and, you know, the ability to kind of make it your own and put your own stamp on it so that they don't all look the same, which was one of the things that kind of put me off it. The thought of it initially was that it was just gonna be some boring kind of forum software that's, you know, a bit of a chore to use. But I put a lot of work into it to get it looking somewhat presentable and make it usable for people even on mobile as well. So, yeah, I'm pretty happy with the with the end product.
The main problem we've got now is just getting people over there. Telegram's very sticky. It's very easy to use. It's got loads of cool features, and people have been using it for years for years. People know how to use it. It's got a great mobile app, all that sort of stuff. So trying to, you know, over a 1000 people in our community and get them across to the new website is gonna take some time. So if you're listening to this and you haven't signed up yet, please do head over and start helping us stoke the conversation. The Telegram room will be getting locked within the next couple of weeks. From then on, it will be read only. So if you're in there, you will be able to see our company updates and stuff, but you won't be able to ask for support or anything like that. So if you do need support, obviously, use the official support channels, usual email or website live chat, or now you can, head over to the community and see if a a member of the team or indeed a member of the community can come over there and help out as well. It's a shame, but you needed to do it. There's a blog post that'll be in the show notes as well that, links to, you know, the rationale behind this and also gives you a quick primer on how to get signed up and how to use the forum as well if you're kind of new to this side of things.
More foundation news. We have started some very naughty teasers in the past week or so. Yeah. I've seen. Keyword here is teasers. Obviously, I'm not, at this point, unable to share any more details other than telling people to head to foundation.xyz/beyond. You'll be able to see what information, very small amount, that we have actually shared, and you can sign up to to be updated so that you are the first to know when we are able to share a bit more details. And there's a nice little countdown clock on there as well, which currently at the time of recording sits at 28 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes, and 48 seconds. That thing, whatever it is, has got more curves than Salma Hayek.
[00:17:18] Unknown:
It's looking delicious.
[00:17:20] Unknown:
It's a very beautiful product. The literally the most beautiful product we've made to date. And I know there's only 3 so far, one of them being software and 2 hardware, but we we have Ambuloma and Drumpet, but we've excelled ourselves. It is incredibly beautiful. There are quite a few number of people getting kind of, you know, frustrated and wanting to know, and just just bear with us. 28 days is not a long time. There will be more details being teased between now and that 28 day deadline, so stay close to our Nostra and our Twitter, and our forum. All of the new teasers will be getting shared in there. And, as we come closer to that date, it will become a lot clearer as to what this, device is. Final piece of foundation news. We are running, our 3rd PubKey event of the year in a couple of weeks in PubKey in New York City.
Myself and Zach are gonna be running a Multisig 1 zero one workshop, obviously featuring, foundation products, Passport. And we'll also be doing it with I'm probably gonna do it with Spiro, I think, again, for obvious reasons. It's the gold standard for desktop wallets and makes, demonstrations in person very easy. So if you're in town on we commence in the well, the event is on 17th December, which is a Tuesday. So if you're in town that week, please stop by, say hello, and I might even treat you to a pint of Guinness. And, we're also gonna be in town for the rest of the week as well, and we're gonna be back at Poughkeepsie on the Thursday that week to share something new.
[00:18:53] Unknown:
I wonder what that might be.
[00:18:55] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. So, the observant among you might be able to work out the correlation between the timer on the website and the 2 days after the December 17th to see what might be, happening on that day. I'm jealous
[00:19:09] Unknown:
now.
[00:19:11] Unknown:
So exciting times for foundation. We've got a lot going on, and it's gonna be a big month. We're looking forward to, to that week. Obviously, getting to meet the guys down at Pubgie again, getting to meet all of our users. If you're in town, please come and say hello. And, obviously, we're most excited about, you know, sharing, something new. On to the news, the OP next or up next, the Bitcoin scaling conference took place, which commenced in November 9th. And, it's a, obviously, a technical workshop where they're talking about opcodes and how to scale Bitcoin and stuff. So one for the techies this, but, there'll be a link in the show notes for the live streams if you wanna go ahead and watch those back. It was held in Boston. There's a lot of interesting looking conversations on there that I'm looking forward to catching up on. We've got things like CTV Talks, Covenants, Arc. There's a lot of stuff there that have, you know, have been hot topic for the better part of a couple of years now. Another one is Opvault.
So I'm definitely, myself, gonna be catching up with a few of those probably on the the audio stream. But, if you're that way inclined, check out the link in the show notes so you can stay up to speed with that because, sometimes the the conversation can get quite muddy on Twitter or Nostra when people are passionately talking about the next opcode. So I always find that listening to somebody who's quite technical talk about it, you know, without being shouted out from the public square is a great way to get up to speed. Will you be watching that one, Max? I know you're super technical.
[00:20:40] Unknown:
Sure. I feel less technical than I ever have at the moment. Really? Aft after all of your wins in recent weeks. When I say technical, I mean, I feel like I'm more behind on all the ops and this and that and op cat and blah blah blah. Like, all these things, I just feel like for the last, I don't know, couple of years, I've kind of just, like, drowned it out. I've just been, like, I'm not paying attention to anything until it's close to actually happening, and I, like, have to actually worry about it because there's just too much other stuff on my plate to worry about. I feel like I know less, whereas early days of Bitcoin, I would listen to every single podcast and every single update and try and get my hands on any information about everything I possibly could, like, obsessively.
And Antonopoulos used to do all these little mini, like, q and a sessions, and I used to watch every single one of those and make notes. And and now I'm just kind of like, look. Bitcoin does what I want it to do. It works. I have a setup that I'm happy with. The updates on the things that I use and things I care about, I listen to, and kind of just feel I would like to maybe sit and spend a couple of days and just go, like, what the fuck is all this new stuff that people are talking about, and is it useful?
[00:21:57] Unknown:
Because I don't know. That's the truth. I just don't I I don't know enough to comment on that. Yeah. We're we we have a great question from Jordan towards the end of the show. So I'm not gonna go too deep into this right now, because he's gonna overlap with that conversation we'll have later. But do you know what I think the difference is between how Enthuse you used to be and how easy it was to keep up to speed, you know, let's say 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago versus now. This is my view on it anyway. You you'd correct me if I'm wrong, but the last contentious big change we had was Segwit. Yeah. That was before my time, so I wasn't really involved in that conversation. I kind of joined as it was going live sort of thing. So I wasn't really in that conversation to stay up to speed, especially from a technical point of view. The next big upgrade we had after that really was Taproot, which was noncontroversial.
Pretty much everybody wanted it. So there was never any or not many dissenting opinions against it. It was just a case of, okay. This is great. When can we have it? So there wasn't much noise around it. It was just a case of I guess, the main controversy was, like, activation methods and stuff like that, which was were less important. Right? Yeah. So it was easy to kind of you know, you didn't have to weigh up. Okay. Well, developer a is saying this, and developer b disagrees for this reason. And there was none of that for Taproot. Now we've got all this covenant stuff. We're back into that controversial bit where not only is there differing opinions on whether this is good or bad, but there's also 10 different ways all with their own pros and cons of doing roughly the same sort of thing.
So it's like there's just so much more. You've got dissenting opinions to try and weigh up and decide for yourself who's right, but then you've also got all of these different implementations to try and understand. Like, it's no wonder that myself included is not able to keep up with all this sort of stuff in any tangible way to be able to form a, you know, a really balanced view on which one's good, which one's bad, which developers you agree with. Like, it's a lot. Like, it would be a full time job to stay up to speed with that. So I think that's where the landscape's changed and kind of why you're absolutely not alone in the fact that,
[00:24:00] Unknown:
it's nigh on impossible to keep up with this sort of stuff, especially all the covenants at the moment. Well and also, like, when I was diving into all that stuff before, I was spending probably 9, 10 hours a day listening and reading and whatever, like, just obsessively. And I didn't have kids. So, like, I can do that. Like, now Very good point. If I manage to take a shit in peace, that is a good day. That is a great day. And the only time that I can listen to a podcast would be while I'm driving, and I barely drive anymore. So it's like, if I listen to half of a podcast a week now, that's probably about as much as I manage. I listened to that one Seth did with Lop the other day. That's great. That was very good. But I had to actually carve out time. I had to drop other things so that I could listen to that. It wasn't like I can just passively listen while I do other stuff. So, yeah, just keeping up with it is just not gonna happen. I'll I'll wait for you to do it, and then I'll just pick your brains. I'll see what will happen.
[00:24:59] Unknown:
I feel that that's what we all do, isn't it? We we all delegate to a higher power to to help us form our opinions and and distill it all down. So I'm happy to be one rung in that ladder for you. More news. The Tornado Cash developer, Roman Storm, has had his trial delayed until April next year. This is to push to keep his expert witness secret is scheduled for November 12th. Wait. Hold on. That doesn't make any sense. So in the unicast developer, Romastorm's upcoming trial has been, yeah, pushed until April, which previously had a scheduled December start date and that your judges ruled on last Friday. Okay? So, sadly, you know, he's got that hanging over his head for at least another 4 months now, which is which is not great. But once again, when, the time comes that there's any tangible updates other than it being pushed back, we will keep you guys updated.
In even sadder news, the Bitcoin Fog user, I use that term intentionally, the alleged operator, Roman Stirlingoff, has been sentenced to 12 and a half years in prison, for, again, allegedly running the Bitcoin Fog Mixing Service. And I love the the no bullshit Bitcoin title here for allegedly running it based on junk science, I e, chain analysis.
[00:26:21] Unknown:
My understanding is just like one transaction that was linked to paying for a server or some type of hosting, which could have maybe touched a wallet that he was in control of. It's all a bit, like, loosey goosey. And to put someone away at all for something that loosely tied to them is fucking mental. But for 12 and a half years, it's like, I don't know, 30% of your useful life Mhmm. Is absolutely fucking disgusting.
[00:26:57] Unknown:
And, again, we drew this analogy last week, bought 12 and a half years for allegedly running a service that, again, allegedly laundered money versus we've got pedophiles walking the street in the UK Yeah. Because they work for the BBC. Like, it's I can't even put into words how abhorrent or how how much judicial injustice there is in this world. It's just it makes me sick to my stomach. Yeah. It's,
[00:27:25] Unknown:
it's enough to make you angry enough to dedicate your life to take their power away.
[00:27:31] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. He's also been ordered to forfeit 395,000,000 and had 1,760,000 worth of seized assets as well or worth of his assets seized. He was ordered to forfeit 1,345 BTC from the Bitcoin Fog Wallet that they say he controls, worth over a $103,000,000.
[00:27:52] Unknown:
So hold on. They're charging him all this money. Have they got any proof that he has any of it?
[00:27:58] Unknown:
Not. Well, I think the, the the first part of this where it says he's ordered to forfeit 395,000,000 and seized assets from him worth around 1.76. The fact that they've done that, I I guess, presumes that they they know he's got that. It's the second part that is funny to me where they've ordered him to forfeit all of the money from the alleged Bitcoin Fog Wallet that they say he was in control of, which obviously he's denied. Okay. Shall we hit some boosts? Yeah. Let's do it. Very big fan of this first one. It's from John. We all know John. 100,000 sats.
He said, I'm so very excited that after two and a half years of producing mining content together, Max finally understands how to convert Terra to PETA. I'm so proud.
[00:28:50] Unknown:
Apparently, all the people in the, the minor group we have, the club minor group, were all very proud. Chet had messaged him like, oh, yeah. Look at Max. He can actually fucking count. Well, thank you, John. It's starting to rub off. I'm starting to learn. Late stage Huddl with 40,000 sats. Y'all call it grid. I guess I normally call it a grate inlet. As an engineer, I'd say storm drain inlet would be the most generic term. The top could be a grate. A dome grate, wear, curb, inlet, etcetera. And the little thing. Oh, it's a. Yeah.
Thumbs up. No meaning or reason for it on my boost. Just can't boost without a message anymore because of fucking Nosta integration. But at least my queue still doesn't work in fountain, and the UI sucks. Chip shop, salt and vinegar, battered sausage. Is this just a corn dog? No. It is not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Nothing like it. Deep fried anything sounds like a county fair, but good to know q and a doesn't love battering hot oily sausages.
[00:30:17] Unknown:
Thank you for your boost late stage huddle. Okay. I'm gonna butcher this name, so I apologize in advance, but this comes from Pojameans? Pojemese. Oh, they actually sent me a thing. They sent me another boost how to say it. Oh, really? Okay. Well well, I'll read it while you find it. I'll read their boost. I won't find it. 1,000, by the way. Thank you. I just wanted to give you a boost because you really deserve it. But there is one thing I'd like to mention. Zeus Wallet is a bitch. Channels are closed for unknown reasons. Sending and receiving very often do not show the status, although they are successful.
This often leads to having to restart the app very often. I hate it. Lightning is annoying anyway. Cosign the last message, but that's your experience is definitely not the experience I've had with Zeus. However, it sounds like you might be using the hosted channels, which if you are, obviously, that's a paid service. I would absolutely go into the the Zeus Telegram room. Be careful, obviously. Telegram's full of scammers. But, as for support, there there there's some great guys in there that will be able to give you some troubleshooting steps that, might be able to assist. But it definitely sounds like it's a problem with the the hosted channel service because, speaking for myself, I've I've not had a single channel closure in years. It's by Asus.
[00:31:30] Unknown:
I had one the other day. Was it, a hosted channel? Like, a It was not a hosted channel. No. It was one I'd opened in Sea Lightning, and I was just operating it in Zeus. Alright. Well, I haven't actually had time to probably work it out whether it's a channel closure or what it is, but it no longer shows as active in the c lightning GUI thing, which is really weird because I never closed it, and I need to have a play around with it. But, yeah, I couldn't get it working, couldn't make any payments. It's really fucking annoying. As he says, lightning is annoying. It is fucking annoying. Certainly can be. Yep. But I'll tell you what lightning's like. It's like a constant fucking annoyance with just the odd wave of, like, oh, this is quite good, actually. It's like having a kid. Yeah. Exactly. It's like 95% of the time you're going, fuck this shit. Ugh. What have I done?
Why am I doing this? Ugh. Is it all worth it? And then there's just this little 5% where you go, this is amazing. This is bliss. Just riding a wave of bliss. That's lightning. Lightning cost me a few less sats, though. And it doesn't burn holes in your carpet. Oh, gosh. Yeah. For fuck's sake. XMR chat 0.121 XMR from fuck. Great username. Yeah. Thanks, mate.
[00:32:52] Unknown:
We have, a shout out for Shadrach who streamed us, yeah, streamed us a total of 10,640 sats at a 120 sats per minute. Thank you very much, sir. Wow. Thank you, mate. Appreciate you. 8 Mythrandir
[00:33:07] Unknown:
with 7,777 sats. Remember, remember, the 5th November, the gunpowder treason and plot. I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot. Guy Fawkes and his companions did the scheme contrive to blow the king and parliament all up alive. Threescore barrels laid below to prove old English overthrow, but by god provenance, him they catch with a dark lantern lighting a match. A stick and a stake for King James' sake, if you won't give me 1, I'll take 2, the better for me and the worse for you, a rope, a rope to hang the Pope, a penneth of cheese to choke him, a pint of beer to wash it down, and a jolly good old fire to burn him. Whole of boys, whole of boys make the bells ring.
Hollow boys, hollow boys, God save the king. Hip hip hooray.
[00:34:12] Unknown:
Wow. Beautiful.
[00:34:14] Unknown:
Thank you, mate. That before. No. I haven't either. I think that's because we were asking or I was wondering The story behind it. Behind it. Yeah. I feel like there's more. You know, like, you look through history and you just think, I don't know if that's true. I feel like there's something more going on in that story. Like, I'd I'd like to know. But thank you for the poem anyway. I appreciate it. Thanks, Abe. Next one's from x patriotic on XMR chat. 0.048
[00:34:39] Unknown:
XMR. He said lightning disrespectors. Here is some fag money to make up for my missing lightning boosts. Also, something smart about coffee.
[00:34:52] Unknown:
Very good. Here is some fag money. Okay.
[00:34:56] Unknown:
Does he mean cigarette money, or does he mean fag as in the usual term? Maybe he means to buy some cigarettes. Possibly. Why will have we been talking about smoking lately? No. It's probably greaser.
[00:35:08] Unknown:
Okay. Smoking for eggs. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think he's talking about XMR. Because other than my fuck up where I just put a dash stupidly, I've been really enjoying using XMR as a payment method. It's not been so good to store any value in, and luckily, I haven't done that. But as a payment method, bang, send, cost fuck all, works, No custody. No stupid fucking lightning shit and channels closing and blah blah blah. And if something messes up, you know you got your seed words. It's just really nice.
[00:35:44] Unknown:
I'm glad to hear that. And my experience, although minimal, has been very much the same.
[00:35:50] Unknown:
Soulex, 6900 sats. Fucking 500 Monopoly. I think it means monopoly money per month. Eyes. Fuck. Worried face. Oh, he's talking about my, my AI and software stuff. Yeah. I I had the same reaction as you, Alex. Yeah. Well, I I totaled out the other day. It was a little bit less. It was in the $400 range, but, also, it's not just AI. So I've got, like, my Adobe subscriptions because of some of the artwork. I've got my AI subscriptions for, like, art and voice and bits and pieces. I've got the recording software that we're using now so that it stores locally, not just you know, if we cut off, we don't lose it. Editing software. Like, just there's a lot of extra shit that we need to just make this run smoothly. So, yeah, it's in the 4 100, but, you know, it is what it is. I fucking hate subscriptions.
They are a stain on life, aren't they? Yeah. They really are. It's it's fucking disgusting. And I try and save the money where I can, but it's just like it also, like, I look at it as time. Since I've gone full time, we're pretty much doing, like, double the amount of shows per month. If I can shave off time and make things slicker or just make things better and I have to throw some sass at it, I can do that because you just hit a limit of, like, how much time you have, and that's where the tools come in. So Yeah. They are good, but, yeah, it's fucking disgusting.
[00:37:22] Unknown:
Next one's from mister Nathan Day, 5,000 sats. I think his Nosta client may have screwed him over here because it just says blank is a Northerner question mark fake news. Now I think this is about your saying there was a Northern influence in your household or something like that last time. No. No. No. No. He's talking about coffee. He's saying black coffee is a Northerner, question mark, fake news. And I was like, no. He is a Northerner.
[00:37:48] Unknown:
He's definitely more Northern than you. Yeah. He's definite I mean, everyone's more Northern than me. But I would class him as a Northerner. I don't know where the where the limit is. I almost say, like, I don't know. Careful.
[00:38:02] Unknown:
Careful. You're gonna say, like, Watford now, aren't you? That's on the limit almost. What? Yeah.
[00:38:13] Unknown:
Anything north of that is probably or like Bedford, anything north of that is probably north for me. I suppose it's all relative, isn't it? Yeah. Like, you might say, oh, well, someone like proper northern would be, like, fucking Scotland. Newcastle. Or like Eskimos or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's all relative, I suppose. Newcastle's the most northern until you hit Scotland, isn't it, basically?
[00:38:39] Unknown:
Yeah. You you think it can't get any worse than than it does. Just joking to anybody that's Scottish that listens to this. There there is one, Scottish chap I know that'll be listening to this, and I'm just sending out my love. It's been a while since we've chatted. Yeah. If we might be thinking about the same one. I'm I'm sure we are. Awful bloke. He's an awful bloke, and he goes to every conference ever, and he loves putting stickers everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We love you. I haven't heard from him for a while either. At jb399, 4000 sats with a fist bump. Thank you, sir. Pizer De Plaeb,
[00:39:13] Unknown:
2,100 sats without a badass American John. I'm falling asleep less than 30 minutes in. Fucking Brits. Loads of emojis. But still, got love for y'all. 420 sats from Pies again. I love running my Bittax. I never play the fiat lottery scam, but I'll play the Bittax lottery again all day, every day, motherfucker. Boyaka, boyaka. Loads of emojis. One spliff a day keeps the evil away. Boioca, boioca, a 1,000 emojis.
[00:39:47] Unknown:
Thank you, Pies. Thank you, man. I'm sorry that we bore you, by the way. He's not even listening anyway because we've already done over 30 minutes. So I feel, yeah, I feel like he he listens to the intro, sends 17 boosts, and then just fucks off. Yeah. That's it to go. We appreciate you, Pies. Thanks. At Hooksley, 1,337 Sats has sent a Rumble link, which I haven't clicked yet, to get paid to run a Tor Relay. Let me just click this link. You're gonna go on a journey with me here, listeners. Let's listen to it live. L Tor. Okay. We'll link it. It looks legit. It's not gonna break my, or get me in prison. High bandwidth Tor network 4, incentivized by the Bitcoin Lightning Network. More decentralized, more secure, relays earn SATs powered by bolt 12 offers.
Okay. Okay. I like that as a concept. Maybe check that out. We'll link that in the show notes. And he's also said best fish and chips are fried in beef dripping and served with Yorkshire tea. Fist bump, England flag, England flag. But he actually wrote the words rather than the emojis, which made me chuckle.
[00:40:49] Unknown:
I'm not sure about a cup of tea with fish and chips. I know that sounds weird from a northern abbot. I don't actually drink tea. So I think a lot of people do that, though. Yeah. It's just weird. I I feel like pint if I was gonna do anything. And beef dripping, I don't know if I've ever had it in beef dripping. That's what, Zach put on there. Because you know he's into all his, like, proper, like, tallow and, like, healthy stuff, isn't he? Yeah. Beef tallow. Yeah. He said something in one of the messages like, oh, I hope that's not in seed oils. And I was like, mate, it's w d 40.
It's fucking like if you get seed oils, you're lucky. Stack them. 1,069 sats. Just a time preference nut speaking here, but high time preference killed your butane. K.
[00:41:37] Unknown:
I'm guessing that autocorrectors screwed this person over. I'm guessing they said bit ax.
[00:41:44] Unknown:
Ah, okay. Urgently trying to get your hash back on versus learning the correct voltage for your butane killed it. Here's some stats so you can buy another one in the future with a little love heart. That's very kind. But, yeah, that's true, q. You don't understand time preference? You fucked yourself up there, mate? Yep. And I don't understand butane either.
[00:42:07] Unknown:
Thank you, stack them. At purple frog of fire breeze sent us a 1,000 sats and just said onwards.
[00:42:14] Unknown:
Foam and Mitronic, a 1,001 sats said nothing.
[00:42:17] Unknown:
Abel, a I b l e, 801 sats, says, I blew up my super the same way brother q did. This is a good cautionary tale. Brother Pies, as usual, makes a good fair point. Perhaps brother q should start trying some impersonations to become a war more well rounded podcaster. Sometimes being jacked and incredibly intelligent just isn't enough. Well, thank you for saying so, Abel. Wow. Yeah. There's a couple of things that you'll never hear me do on this podcast. Impressions is 1. Simp for sale will be number 2. And Only behind post goals? Yes. I keep that to myself. Probably just those 2. Yeah. But impersonations
[00:42:55] Unknown:
is definitely not my bag. Impressions is not my bag either. I sometimes get coerced into doing the odd terrible impression because John does so many and listeners ask. But, yeah, it is, it's not a strong suit for me. Nobody from nowhere, 666. It sort of like balances out, a I b l e, because he's very godly. Q and a finally learned from Max how to fuck around and find out. Those who never fuck around and found out it did not live their lives
[00:43:29] Unknown:
fully. There you are, mate. So if you are looking to fuck around and find out, buy a Bitax, then close your eyes and rummage in that cable drawer that you've got and just plug the first one in that you find. Yeah. Then you may fuck around and find out. Just make sure you disconnect your smoke alarm first. My tour is still running. Oh, you got double the half.
[00:43:48] Unknown:
Yeah. Every time I, walk through the garage, I think, oh, I've done a thing and it works.
[00:43:55] Unknown:
Paul Allen, 500 SATS, said, you mean Durov's phone number requirement hasn't prevented Telegram breach becoming a scammer's paradise? Obviously, sarcasm. And, yes, unfortunately, that hasn't worked. War time 333.
[00:44:09] Unknown:
Rest in peace. I assume that's about your bittacks.
[00:44:13] Unknown:
It is. Thank you, War time. Final one is CryptoNekt, 210 sats, and they just said thank you. Well, thank you, CryptoNekt. And thank you to all of our boosters. We thoroughly enjoy reading them each and every I was gonna say weekend. Every other week. Thank you very much for getting involved, guys. We do we do really appreciate it. We do. And this, little bit is for Jordan. He keeps battering me. He said my last message about
[00:44:37] Unknown:
thanking everyone for value for value was was okay. He gave me the b minus. He said what he'd like me to do is to add in that time, talent, and treasure is also appreciated, meaning artwork or just sharing the show, ideas, questions, or voice mails, or anything that anyone can do to provide value is appreciated. It doesn't just have to be SATs, but we appreciate all the SATs and everyone who contributes in any different way. Hopefully, you like that, Jordan.
[00:45:14] Unknown:
Yeah. Yes. It's quite funny how the the truth is really coming out now. Like, until now, most people would have thought that this was your baby that and that you you pull the strings. But little do they know we've got a manager in the background who is a tyrant. He's ruthless. He is an absolute tyrant. He brought John to tears the other day. It's not easy to do either. It's Jordan that really runs this shit. So, if you're listening, Jordan, please don't kill me.
[00:45:41] Unknown:
Sometimes, like, my phone will go off. It's like 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning. And it's just like a list. And just and then it just underneath just says, get it done.
[00:45:51] Unknown:
Got so much to do. The repercussions of I don't do it are just too strong. I woke up to a Telegram message last week from him. Literally, no other contact. He just said, you are not good enough. In all seriousness, should we get back to some actual content with the latest updates and releases? Yes. Love you, Jordan. Bit tax version 2.4.0 has now been released, and I believe this is only for the ballers that like to run the gamma, the latest one that's just, like, a whopping one terra hash. Loads of stuff in here. I'm not gonna read it all, but I think there's been some nice polishing to the UI as well. And loads of bug fixes because, obviously, the gamma is fairly new to the market as well, so I'm sure they're still working through some issues there. So that is very hot off the presses as at the time of recording 17 hours ago. So, I'm gonna say maybe don't upgrade straight away because anytime I've rushed out and done a Bitax release on the day of it was announced, there's always been an issue with it. So I don't know. Maybe give it a couple of days, especially if like me, you have a habit of killing bit taxes and you're down to your last one. Maybe treasure it. Just wait. Yes. Time preference.
There's something I don't know anything about apparently, or BT. Our good friend, mister Dojo Coder, Pavel, has released Boltzmann TS Repo, a typescript library computing the entropy of Bitcoin transactions and the linkability of their inputs and outputs. So this is gonna be very similar to the original kind of Boltzmann tool that used to be part of Dojo and or maybe just Ronin Dojo. But, yeah, as the name suggests, you can kind of scrutinize your own transactions to work out using the Boltzmann theory, how likely an outsider is to be able to link the inputs and outputs. So the release here is a TypeScript version of that. So if that isn't complete, Nice. Gobbledygook to you and you know what TypeScript is, then go ahead and give this one a go. Will do. We have RoboSat version 0.7.2 alpha, including Noster Audible has now been released. Well, the alpha has been released should I say. So this is obviously our resident Noster shill and also one of our Robosat shills, I guess. Big fan of that project. And seeing these 2 come together again, I think we might have mentioned this before, but it does make sense to me. Right? These peer to peer markets are going to come under the crosshairs of regulators because they enable people to circumvent the KYC catch net that is, you know, slowly creeping in by allowing you to purchase from another privacy conscious user. Wonderful. Mhmm. But when you have a centralized order book, that becomes a single point of failure where you take down that central order book and buy buy peer to peer market. Right? So Robosat have already tried to address this by allowing there to be multiple coordinators, which is fantastic. Obviously, you can spin up tool based coordinator, but they've also now added in the ability for the global order book to be shared over the Nostra network, which is somewhat decentralized over a series of, you know, no idea, but lots of different relays. So good to see that they've experimented with this and added in some extra redundancy that is independent of them as a project. Had a quick look this morning, and there's loads of offers on there that are being served over the Nostra network. So it seems to have got some pretty good adoption early on, which is great to see. So if you're a Robosats user, head into the settings and you can switch between the API order book and the Nostra order book with a simple click of a button. So check it out. Excellent. Bitcoin Keeper version 1.2.18 mobile and desktop version 0.1.3 have been released. Early big update this one. You can now select select some servers before doing any action within the application. So you can connect to your owner before setting up wallets, which is obviously a great thing. They have added simplified vault registration for signers.
They've major redesign of the UTXO management and transaction details, They've also revamped their dark mode version as well. So it seems that these guys were pretty quick at shipping anyway, but since Ben Kaufman, Expectowizard has joined the team, they seem to have really stepped up a bit as well. So it seems like he's made a really positive impact over there. So, shout out, Ben. Ben. Hope you're well. Haven't spoke to you for a while, but, sounds like he's doing good work at Keeper. The Zeus boys have released a new product called Zeus White, which is a white glove node management point of sale and integrated enterprise solutions for businesses.
So it sounds as though this is a kind of built on top of the original building blocks they have of the Zeus LSP, where any schmuck like you or I can just go and purchase a channel and use, Lightning in a semi trusted way where we have a single channel with the LSP, Zeus, in this scenario. It looks like they're expanding that now to provide more kind of business like features so that people can have slicker onboarding if you're a merchant so that you don't have to go through all of the usual lightning self custodial headaches that me and Max wax lyrical about on this show every other week. So, yeah, I hope they see some success with this. Early days at the moment. I don't know of any companies using it, but it is literally a couple of days old, the the announcement. So good to see that Evan and the team are looking towards longevity and, you know, getting some money through the door to keep the project going. Because it's an age old problem with, FOSS projects is if you just keep giving shit away for free, then you're gonna fall over eventually, unless you've got a never ending stream of bounties and gifts from HRF, etcetera. Talking about Zeus, we have version 0.9.2 main release has now been announced. We have a couple of core features here. You can export transaction history. You have BIP 353 support, Vault 12, and hardware signer improvements.
So those of you that, like to mess with taxes, you can now export your transaction history. Particularly useful if you're a merchant, you can kind of just export them all in a single CSV file, hand them over to your, accountant to go and deal with all of that headaches. They've also solidified bit 353 and bolt 12 support. So they now have support for bit 353 on chain addresses, which fall back to using bolt 12. So as a quick reminder, this bit 353 is the domain stuff. So what you can have is [email protected]. Yep. And if you try to pay that, what looks like an email address with a bit 353 compatible wallet, what it'll do is ping that DNS server to say, oh, this is a Bitcoin wallet, and I wanna pay this address. What have you got to give me? Looks like Zeus now supports static on chain addresses, so not great for privacy, but you can kind of encode a static on chain address behind that DNS so that it repays to the same address on chain. Or you can also code in a bolt 12 offer there as well. So that if I say that I wanna pay max at ungovernablemisfits.com, it will ping his lightning node using the bolt 12 standard. It will serve my paying wallet with an an invoice, and I can send Max some sats over the lightning network with no direct interaction with Max at all. So this seems very, very cool. I think the only thing that would top this is obviously is to remove that on chain address so that the natural way to do it at the moment would be with something like silent payments, where instead of encoding just a single address, you would put in your silent payments address, and then that framework then will be able to use all of the Taproot magic behind that that powers it to then generate a unique address between sender and recipient.
That is the utopia. We've mentioned it a couple of times, but this came out of left field. I didn't know Zeus is working on this sort of stuff. So very, very cool. I think I'm gonna definitely gonna be testing this one out. I've just when we had that little break there, I just downloaded 0.9.2. So hopefully by, next time we record, I'll be able to give you some live field experience. And then the final one for this release is they've improved the hardware and external signer improvements as well, including Keystone, Passport, and Coldcard. Very cool. Once again, shout out to the Zeus boys. Next up, we have Liana version 8.0. Look at that. Nice and simple. Just 8.0.
No.1327d86. Thank you, Liana, guys. I've never heard of Liana. Am I missing a trick here? It's been around at least a year. However, the reason that you haven't heard much of it is that it is kind of fairly cutting edge, and it uses MiniScript so that you can do all of these fancy different Vault type things. And MiniScript is still in its infancy in terms of adoption as well. So it it's not a surprise to me that it hasn't come across your radar. I've had a quick poke around with it in one of the earlier builds. I haven't tried the version that we talked about now, and I was using an old ledger of mine because it that's one of the earliest hardware devices that supports MiniScript. It is a very powerful thing where you can kind of time lock funds and set fallback keys so you can have, like, degrading multisig and all that sort of stuff. But it is, again, very cutting edge and, you know, in my opinion, not quite ready for for the prime time. But vision 8, looks like they've done some massive upgrades to to the UI to kind of simplify things. They're still things down. They've upgraded to Bitcoin d 28.
They've added BitBox 02 support. So, yeah, it just looks like they're they're walking down the natural path for a fairly new wallet, but they're doing so whilst having very cool mini script support, which I think is gonna be fairly big in the years to come because of what it enables in terms of self custody and also self custody backup so that you can, you know, do some of those things like I've just mentioned in terms of, like, degrading multisig or have external keys and backup keys and things like that, where you can get a little bit more fancy. But again, you know, I'm not urging anybody to go out and put their life savings into this sort of stuff at the moment because it is very nascent. It's a desktop application, by the way, if I didn't make that clear. Don't know whether they've got any plans for for mobile options at the moment. Okay. But from what I can see, the screenshots on NoBULLSHIT Bitcoin, it looks like the UI that they've done is is a big improvement over the last time that I, had a quick poke around. So good to see those guys continuing to iterate as well. Nice. I know you've got another thing on our list, and I think we talked about this already.
[00:55:40] Unknown:
But wouldn't it be lovely if there was Fork of Sparrow that was for mobile? I'm pretty sure we talked about this last week, but, like and, obviously, Craig hasn't got the time to fuck around with that and do that. He's got enough on his plate, but it would be lovely.
[00:55:53] Unknown:
It certainly would. Yeah. I think it would be difficult, though, when you think about all the things that Spiro can do and particularly where it excels in terms of, like, you know, handling multisig and all that sort of stuff. Doing that on a size constrained screen in such an elegant way that Sparrow does on desktop would be something very difficult to pull off in my opinion. And that's probably why you don't see the equivalence in terms of usability yet. There's don't get me wrong. There's some wonderful multisig wallets out there, but they take different, you know, UI choices. But don't get me wrong. I think if he put his mind to it, I'm sure he could probably knock a few spots off the existing implementations.
[00:56:32] Unknown:
It's no mean feat. Yeah. No. No. I'm I'm not suggesting it is, and I'm not even suggesting that it's something that he does. He's got so much on his plate, but it's just I often think, like, I've got a separate laptop that I use just to interact with Sparrow because it is the best thing that I can use. And it sometimes feels a bit silly having a separate laptop to do that. I would quite like to just use a phone, and a lot of people do not even have laptops at all. And they would just use mobile only and I don't know. It just feels like, you know, it was in one of the chats the other day. I think it might have been the Bristol meetup one or something like that. Someone was asking, how do I do this and that? And I wanna try and do it in BlueWallet. And I was like, why? Just fucking use Sparrow. And they're like, oh, I only have mobile. I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I think there's there's definitely a gap in the market, and I think that your best options right now would be something like Blue or Nunchuk if you're looking to stick with a mobile option. Or indeed Keeper as well. I know they have really wide ranging support for, a lot of signers, whereas Blue is a bit more restricted. So there are some good options, so I'd say poke around with what's available.
[00:57:35] Unknown:
Okay. Last one on the updates and releases is a new mobile app, ironically, after the conversation we just had, called mempal. This is, quote, the essential Bitcoin mempool monitoring tool. Oh. It is essentially using the mempool.space API to give you all of your nerdy Bitcoin stats. So size of the mempool, block heights, fee rates for, you know, next block, 2 block, 4 block, no next day, and then all of the usual fee distributions and things like that. So all of the common stuff that you get in the main page on mempool, you can now get that in an open source application called mempal. Sorry, Apple fanboys. This is Android only. It looked pretty cool. I think this would be a good addition to my Graphene phone. Definitely one I'm gonna check out. Okay, mate. Shall we hit some questions? I know we've got one from our Lord and savior, Jordan. And we also have voice mail, I believe. Should we hit the voice mail first maybe? Before you do, maybe we remind people how to how they can send one in. Yeah. It's been a while since we've had any voice mails. I check every day, and no one sends them. Makes me very sad. But today, you can send us a voice mail on Telegram.
[00:58:38] Unknown:
You can send me an MP 3. You can send it to q. You can send it to Jordan. You can send it on any communication.
[00:58:49] Unknown:
Just say just send us a voice note via any communication method possible. That you want, basically.
[00:58:55] Unknown:
Just send just send us a recording and we will play it. I fucked that up. That was terrible. I don't know what I don't know how to say it. You can just send us a voice note on any app and fucking hell. I can't even do it, mate. Why can't I speak?
[00:59:13] Unknown:
I don't know, q. Why don't you tell us? Just drop us a voice note. Doesn't matter whether it's on Telegram, Signal, Simplex, anything like that. If you have a question, just record a quick voice, note and send it through to us. And as long as you're happy for it to be played out on the show, we will definitely answer that question for you. Just, keep it clean and keep it legal. Oh,
[00:59:32] Unknown:
I'd also add if you have any updates. So if you're a dev and you're working on a project, no shitty scammy stuff. But if you're working on something and you want us to know something particularly cool, you can send us a voice note for that as well. It's not just questions. Let's check our voice mail. This is Max and q from The Bitcoin Brief. Sorry we can't answer right now. I'm busy editing, and Q is in the gym training his calves. So please leave us a message after the tone.
[01:00:10] Unknown:
We welcome topic suggestions, show feedback, and questions on anything FreedomTech related. Please direct all number go up queries and politician simping to a nearby Twitter influencer.
[01:00:24] Unknown:
Hi, Max. Hi, q and a. Thanks for the hotline. Since the most recent price action, there are a lot of people interested in stacking SUDs now. Now if people are so retarded as me, they end up losing passphrases and stuff like that. So this is my question at the moment, how can I help them keep their passphrases safe without them having to trust me? Do you have any solution for that? Thank you.
[01:00:54] Unknown:
Thank you for your questions, Alex. Yeah. Thank you. So he mentioned passphrases there, but then he also talked about normies. So I was gonna presume that he actually meant seed phrases given that we're kinda keeping it simple and talking about normies. But just had a quick chat with him on Telegram while we've been recording, and he said maybe both. So I'll cover off the simple one first in terms of seed phrases and normies, and then I'll take it to the next step with passphrases as well. The obvious answer for me would be to get them to use something like Envoy. If they use the simple setup, they automatically have a backup encrypted into their cloud. So they would just tap, tap, tap. They get a mobile wallet. They're able to generate receive addresses. They can send and receive Bitcoin in literally 30 seconds, and then they all have an automatic encrypted cloud backup such that if they choose to ignore the warnings and never write down their seed phrase, then also we'd need to do if they lost their phone or deleted the Envoy app is grab a new phone, download the Envoy app. As long as they're signed into their Icloud account or their Google account, it will automatically pull that encrypted data back down and restore access to the wallet. Obviously, as a friend of a normie, we have a responsibility to make sure that they understand the concept of seed words and stuff. So I would also urge them to say, look, this type of wallet will automatically back it up for you, but you don't wanna put all your eggs in one basket and just have the cloud be your only option. That might not be too detrimental because at the end of the day, it's a mobile wallet. It's not designed for your life savings and obviously be very clear about that. It would cover off the use case of just getting somebody onboarded very quickly to show them and give them that wow moment without needing to go, okay. These are seed words. They operate on the BIP 39 standard. You need to write them down. You need to stamp them into steel. Like, you can postpone that for a little bit while they just get their feet under the table and are able to just start using this and kind of because that's where the orange billing happen is when they see it happen, and when they're actually able to send and receive transactions without needing
[01:02:43] Unknown:
to phone up the bank and ask for permission, etcetera. So if you can get them to do that first without having to go through the horrible hurdle of all of the BIP 39 seed word stuff, to win in my opinion. But it definitely should be part of somebody's onboarding, I would say. Is it, though? I know this is literally your job, so it's stupid me questioning you on this in in many ways, but I actually don't agree. I don't like the idea of, like, making it so simple for them that they don't even have to write down 12 or 24 words. I feel like trying to do things and having encrypted backups and all that kind of stuff, like, it's a cool option to have. But just as a friend, if I'm setting someone up, I just wouldn't even give them that option. I would go straight to, we're gonna set this up. I'm gonna look away. You're gonna write these down. You're gonna make 2 copies. You're gonna check through and just double and triple and quadruple check, and you're gonna store these in in separate places just in case one burns down or whatever. Like, you don't even have to get to stamping steel or any of that kind of stuff, like but you are going to fucking do this, and you are gonna write them down, and you understand that this is the key. Because I just don't think it's that hard. I feel like people make maybe too much of a fuss of, like, how difficult it is to write down a couple of words on a piece of paper. Like, kids can do it at fucking school at a couple of years old. I'm pretty sure an adult can do it. Yeah. I agree with everything that you just said and definitely think that we shouldn't obfuscate
[01:04:06] Unknown:
the fact that seed words exist and their importance in a self custody setup at all. I just think that depending on the user, obviously, that's the crucial part here is who you're trying to onboard or who you're helping. It could be a good idea to defer it even for a small amount of time. It just depends on the user essentially. But, yeah, BIP 30 9 seed words need to be kind of introduced and the importance of them explained at the right time for the right person. When that is will depend on that person. In terms of keeping them, obviously, you're gonna want a physical copy of them. But if it's just a simple set of seed words and it's just a mobile wallet, then it's, you know, I would just say as simple as just keep a copy of these in a safe at home. You don't need to overcomplicate it more than that. Now depends on the user. If this user is a high net worth individual and you're onboarding your millionaire friend, and they're gonna lump a $1,000,000 in dollars. And then I'm gonna say probably don't sell them to use Envoy and not back up the seed. It's obviously it's very much horses for courses at that point then. Well, in that scenario, I'd probably pay for some professional help because they're clearly not sure of a penny or 2 and, you know, a couple of £100 seeking this the advice of a of a professional to maybe help them set up something more secure is is a drop in the ocean and would be the right thing to do. Well, I tell people who
[01:05:18] Unknown:
are not that technically savvy or, like, a more boomer generation, I always tell them buy a passport, pay for the setup. Not I say always. Mhmm. Any of the boomers who I've spoken to or people who have actually listened, they're buying, like, in the tens of 1,000. It's not like 50 quid or a 100 quid or 20 quid. It's like 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand, whatever it is, like, they're buying a decent chunk. And to those people, not even in, like, oh, I'm buying a million. If you're buying $10 upwards and you're a bit of a retard, you're not technically savvy, just fucking pay the $99. Personally, I just think that is worth it, and I like doing that with people as well because I don't want to be
[01:06:00] Unknown:
solely responsible for the setup. I might sit there and listen in, or I might be involved and be there to hold their hand if they need it. But for $99, I think it's crazy not to. Yeah. Definitely. And to cap off the second part of the question around passphrases, this might be controversial. But if I'm onboarding somebody, I just would tell them not to use a passphrase at all. And I appreciate that might be controversial, but there's a time and a place. And when you're onboarding and you're just getting started, you just don't need that added complexity, in my opinion. Thoughts?
[01:06:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Craig said the same to me last time he was on. Again, I disagree. That's just me being, like, overly paranoid, and it could be to the detriment of friends and family at some point in their lives if they don't listen. But I just I really hate the idea of all eggs being in one basket. People don't like the idea of splitting seeds, and they're keeping those in separate locations. And so Mhmm. I don't like the idea of keeping everything in one place. I don't like the idea of telling someone, stamp this and sustain or or save this in in a written down format, which can be read by anybody.
And then them not put it somewhere that actually is that safe, or they put it in a safe and then they're robbed, and then, you know, someone just has it laid there in front of them. They don't have that belt and braces where, you know, someone goes, oh, fucking hell. Okay. I've got these 12 or 24 words. Let's sweep this wallet. Oh, there's either a small amount or nothing on there. And now because they've done the passphrase, they've saved themselves. Like, even if it's not the world's best passphrase, like, it's a damn sight better.
I don't think the leap between having store these 12 or 24 words and store this thing and keep them in separate locations is that is actually that difficult, I personally
[01:07:45] Unknown:
I agree. The storage part is easy. But when we get into passphrases, like, it's more the understanding and the implications of what the passphrase does and how it interacts with the seed words, especially it's just an open text field. Right? Like, one typo, and it's game over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you think you've yes. So it's the the storage bit is the easy part. Like, that's not the problem for me. It's more the implications of doing it wrong if you don't fully understand how they work and how they operate. That's the impetus for me to say that newbies shouldn't be doing that. Again, very situationally dependent on who it is, how much money they're storing, and, you know, what the stakes are, of course. Like, I'm not gonna say Yeah. Throw a full Bitcoin on a mobile wallet, you know, but but in the in the same vein, if you're throwing a $100 in, you're getting used to it, then you don't need a hardware wallet and you don't need a passphrase. Okay. Pushing back on that a little bit.
[01:08:36] Unknown:
What about let's imagine we have a complete fuckwit. Like, they're not technically capable at all, but they've got a decent chunk of money. You set them up. You use Envoy. They have a passport. Let's say they have a passphrase on there. If they're receiving their and you only save their account on their phone with the passphrase so that when they receive, they go onto their mobile device and press receive. It it generates an address. If they're ever being sent any money, it's gonna go to the right one. Okay? They don't have to remember their passphrase and where the seed words are and how to do all that. All they do is they go on their mobile. They press receive. Done. Mhmm. Okay? They can use their passport to check and be double sure that it's the right address. If they wanna be extra paranoid, fine. But they can't, like, shoot themselves in the foot and be have it sent to the wrong address. Correct. The only time they're gonna have an issue is they have to go and spend those funds, and then they go on and they're like, oh, I can't spend the funds. And it's because they've forgotten to put in the passphrase. And they're like, oh, I can't do it.
But unless it's like Mhmm. Urgent situation where someone's kidnapped their family, and they have to pay it within an hour and they can just pick the phone up to their friend to go, oh, I can't get it to send. And then the person will say, okay. Have you put in the passphrase? Oh, what's that again? Well, you know you had those 2 separate things, and one's in this safe, one's in that safe. They're in different locations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, one of them is the passphrase, and you need to put that this is what I mean. It's just not that hard. And most people who are who are storing decent wealth generally are boomers because they got all the fucking money. So they're the ones who are storing it, and then generally not using it. Like, they are generally using it just to store some value. And they're thinking, oh, I might pass that onto my kids, or I might save it for my when I properly retire or whatever it is. So they're not like they're going, oh, I'm gonna go and buy this new fucking whatever, some gadget or or Bitcoin y thing. They're they're just it's just sat there. Yes. The bit that you're overlooking is
[01:10:43] Unknown:
when they set that wallet up, the passphrase wallet, they applied what they thought was their passphrase, on passport and then connected it to OnVoice so they can see their passphrase account. Yeah. Let's say let's keep it simple. They wanted the passphrase 123abc. Yeah. What they actually typed because they were a bit overzealous and they didn't check it was 124abd. Okay. Okay. Yes. Then they go and deposit over the course of the next 5 or 10 years because they don't spend it the rest of their life savings feeling nice and safe. And then they come to spend, yes, they can find their passphrase backup that's in the safe and it says 123abc.
But when they type it into Passport, Passport can't sign for those transactions because it's a completely different wallet. That's what I was talking about earlier where I was like, you really need to understand the implications here because a single typo can destroy your life. I understand. And that's a fair point. But it is also the same as if you write your 12 or 24 words down wrong, except that you also have your passport, which has them stored. So that's like a second backup. I get your point. Yeah. That makes sense. With the seed words, it's a predefined list. Right? Passphrases are an open text field. You can put what you want in there. So, yeah, it's, I I get where you're coming from though. Like, it's not a massive leap for most people, but just be very, very careful, especially when you're onboarding newbies. Don't get them to run before they can walk. The way just to ramp that off then would be if you are suggesting they use a passphrase,
[01:12:05] Unknown:
would be that you make sure they do a proper backup and restore after doing a small spend to that wallet using the passphrase and make sure they triple check their passphrase is written down correctly and they have 2 copies the same as the other thing. That that's the only way around
[01:12:21] Unknown:
that fuck up, which, yeah, I was overlooking. Yeah. And, again, that's what I'm I'm talking about where you need to understand the implications in how to set it up properly by doing stuff like that before you start depositing your life savings in there. So, yeah, I agree. Okay. Okay. We have a couple of questions from the socials. Number 1 on Twitter from Drink Ore. It's been quiet on the Ashigaru front. What's your thoughts? I can't help but be very suspicious of it. It's like the CIA came in and removed a leader of a country and then replaced it with one of their own brackets. Samurai out. Ashigaru in. Quick and ruthless. Also, fuck n v k. His words, not mine.
[01:13:01] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know. I I think it's gonna be really difficult for trust to be built, and I think that only comes with time and code review because whoever is behind Ashigaru can't tell anyone who they are. They can't really be that public facing. I think anyone who's followed this story can understand why. So it's gonna be difficult to build trust. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who's behind it as long as the code is good and that no data is leaked and that people are using their own notes and all that kind of stuff. That would be my take on it. I just think it's time. What about you, mate? I couldn't have said it better myself. I literally don't have another word to add to that. I think you nailed it. Oh, thank you, mate. You're welcome. I feel really good now. But I'll also just can I just add one more thing is that whoever is behind it, we appreciate you? Agreed. And it was something that needed to be done sticking your neck out like that and doing something like that can't have been easy. It is appreciated.
Yes. We don't know who is behind it, but I would urge anyone who's able to to go and review the code to use it, to test it, and report on it. And and there will come a point where we can all feel more comfortable about it and start to use it, and no one else has done it and stuck their neck out. So appreciate you. Cosign that. Final question is from Henry on Nosta
[01:14:19] Unknown:
who asks, how would q and a brackets not max? Smiley face.
[01:14:25] Unknown:
Fuck's sake.
[01:14:26] Unknown:
Make an NUC less noisy. So this is NUCs or NUCs, the, little mini desktop computers. Is it with FAFEM around in the BIOS, or should I change some parts? I'm running a BTC full node on 1, and I want to run another for a start 9 server, but things are surprisingly noisy. Now that you're our resident hardware guru, what do you think, mate? Well, he specifically said not to answer even though I do run a NUC, and I have actually had this issue, and I could answer it perfectly. I'm not going to. You're probably better suited to answer it because mine is whisper quiet with the exception of when it's, like, booting up or doing some re indexing or something like that. So I don't actually have this issue. So I was gonna suggest maybe a different fan or something like that, but let's see what the expert has to say. I would say a different fan or see if you can find another cooling solution.
[01:15:15] Unknown:
So it might be that you just remove the fans and find some other way of cooling it, like a cooling tower, or you can have different parts that have cooling in them. I don't know if you saw when you're ordering your NVME, you can have, like, self cooling NVME and different things like that. So it might just be an old noisy fan, and that can be ripped out. But I don't have a a noise problem with mine. The start line running on the Starbuck, that's actually
[01:15:41] Unknown:
pretty quiet. It's funny you should say that because the Starbuck I've got is the noisiest machine I owned. Sounds like a Jet Play. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I I don't put a note on it, but if I do anything heavy on it like, video editing or something like that, then
[01:15:54] Unknown:
it it it's quite embarrassing in coffee shops. I can't remember if I had that problem when I was trying to run it as a normal laptop. But, yeah, it must be just that it isn't under that much strain with what I'm throwing at it with running the notes and all that kind of stuff. It just maybe isn't that much of a problem, but it sat literally right next to me. It's within it's within a foot or 2 of this mic, and it's not causing any problems there. So it you know, compared to like a bit ax, I couldn't have in the same room that had to go in the garage. So, yeah, I don't know. I would say probably see if you can find some other way of cooling or see if you could run it in a different room maybe. You know, it could be under some stairs or or in a garage or I don't know. If you wire it, it shouldn't be an issue. There we go. Let us know how you get on, Henry. And get a Mac. If you don't wanna be embarrassed in a coffee shop. I know everyone gets really annoyed by that, but a MacBook Pro is actually just a better laptop. They do look good. I'll give you that. Well, not just look good. They look good. They feel good. They make zero noise. The battery life is good on them. They just work. Hard to disagree. They're just really, really good. Yes. They are cucked. And, yes, you're not as cool as a Linux boy, and, like, you don't look as cool in the fucking coffee shop and all that stuff.
[01:17:04] Unknown:
But you get more done. Alright, mate. That rounds out the show. Any other, business for me? Didn't we have Jordan bleating in our ears about something? Oh, yeah. Oh, god. I'm gonna get absolutely ruined for that, aren't I? You he would've fucking
[01:17:19] Unknown:
he'd have put a hair on you, I reckon. Jesus
[01:17:22] Unknown:
Christ. What have I just done? Okay. Question from, our head honcho, Jordan, the one that pulls all the strings. Yeah. Since the last brief, lots of parents on opt out, which is very good, by the way. Go and check it out. That was very good. And James OB's in-depth piece, both of these will be linked in the show notes. His James OB's piece was called the consensus conundrum, have reignited discussions about the limitations of Bitcoin's current implementation and the stakeholders who wish to maintain it. A significant point raised by both was the role of exchanges as de facto layer 2 scaling solutions. Side note, Samari Wallet and T Dev would commonly highlight the exchanges as the most prominent layer 2 solution. Hashtag free samurai. Agreed. Oh, this is a quote from T Dev, which is very good actually. We have rapid emergence of de facto layer 2, so it's not lightning. It's not liquid. It's very much something controlled by private sector entities, PayPal, Cash App, Revolut, Robinhood, and there are others. And they are basically taking a lot of activity off chain. So you can see the effects on the mempool, which ironically I put out a tweet just the other day that said $91,000 per coin and 4 or 3 or 4 sats per byte. So basically what T Dev just tweeted here. Continue with the quote, but they're also very much controlling of what users can do with what they call Bitcoin. Basically, it's an account based system where people believe they have Bitcoin, but they basically have a Bitcoin value in an account. And of course, these entities will very much overlook the fungibility of the controller. That was from TDEV in in 2021 of all time. So, good that was up for foresight.
So with that in mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts on LOPS and James Hobie's critique regarding Bitcoin's present state and its future trajectory. What insights do you have on their perspectives? Okay. So a lot of what I'm about to say might not make sense unless you have listened to lop with Seth on opt out. Again, link in the show notes. And read James' Obie's tweet, which again link will be in the show notes. The quick summarization of it is that there is a big shift towards, or big resistance to any form of change in Bitcoin at the moment. Both of them kind of allude to the fact of why this might be. I have my own thoughts, mainly because it's anybody that's ever held Bitcoin at this point in time when we record is in profit in nominal terms. The longer that you've been in Bitcoin, the more nominal gains that you've seen in terms of dollars or pounds, etcetera. So if you're one of those people, which is basically anybody in Bitcoin, then Bitcoin works for you right now. If the main impetus as to why you need it is to protect your wealth, hide from inflation, etcetera, etcetera. I know I'm not speaking for everybody here. You know, it is a transactional tool, and I want it to stay that way, but that's a side note. Anybody that's in that camp, which is the majority, whether we like it or not, thinks Bitcoin works. So they're all of the thought process. Well, okay. If it works now, why would we risk upsetting the Apple cart? Why should we make any changes when, you know, we want to hide from inflation and we want them to go up because that's my primary use case for Bitcoin? If that is, that's fine. Great. And I can understand your viewpoint as to why you wouldn't wanna change it. So that's my first thought on that. Yeah. So to go back to the resistance piece around, like, people don't want this to change, and it's very hard to get changes in Bitcoin. James Obi had a great point around that in recent years, we've had a lot or many of the old guard kind of step away. These old guard were kind of pivotal in terms of they they had big voices, and they were able to be quite influential when it comes to making changes or significant changes to Bitcoin. And that the voices that we have right now, they they paint themselves as janitors, and and they kind of will do what the community wills, which is partially a good thing because, you know, we don't want centralized control. We don't want kind of a dictatorship because as soon as you paint somebody as the head honcho here, that's able to make all of the decisions and say, right, here's the direction Bitcoin's going in. That's a single point of failure, and we just turn it to PayPal. So it's a damned if you do and a damned if you don't. And I understand why these people are not willing to put their head above the parapet to be able to, you know, really drive something, especially if they've got maintainer access. So that leaves us in a position where any change, it's kind of like just a bit crazy really, trying to gain any form of rough consensus via people whose voices matter. So there's a resistance to change. Nobody wants to put their head above the parapet to to kind of drive change, and those that do get attacked by people that don't want change.
So that makes them not want to do it and kind of gets us in this stall position where we're doing nothing because it's difficult to do anything. I will let you come in there because I just wanna think about some more points on this one because it is a very, very good question. I agree. I mean, there's more at stake for more people than there ever has been,
[01:22:06] Unknown:
and I think people do view it as, like, a tool that is very, very good. Very few people understand the tool well enough to understand what a change could do. That's why they're scared about making any changes. And I lump myself in that group as well. Like, unless there are changes that really matter to me. Like, if someone came out tomorrow and went, no. I can make this change where we somehow magically can still verify the supply. At the same time, we can make every spend completely private, and we can do some magic where it makes it impossible to track and link and everything else while still maintaining that 21,000,000 and that we know that that can't be changed. And someone put that out there. I'd be like, well, okay. I'm now gonna spend a lot of time looking into this and working out if it's something that I want because this is something that matters to me. But if someone is rolling out an idea that could potentially fuck Bitcoin up completely, it's for a benefit that I don't really see as a benefit. I'm like, don't change it then.
[01:23:13] Unknown:
Yes. So I agree. I I'm partially in that camp as well, but there are consequences to that. That will mean that Bitcoin can no longer continue to scale at all. We've got partial scaling in lightning, but as we have established that scale payments and not really users, like, it doesn't even Mhmm. Touch the sides when it comes to talking about, like, 8,000,000,000 people trying to use this thing. And what that means then is that the Bitcoin will slowly fall into the hands of of a few regulated custodians over the course of long periods of time. But when people take the easy option, or they don't like they don't wanna pay the fees if the fees ever start to increase in the future as adoption continues to grow, That then poses risk around a few people holding large bags and being able to have large voices. We're already moving into that space. But if we don't continue to change and allow people to interact with the network trustlessly by making changes like covenants or think or any of the the alternative proposals, then that is a real risk. So I sit in the well, I sit in both camps similar to you where, yes, I don't wanna be reckless, but do we need to make changes if we want this to remain a decentralized network that anybody can easily interact within a trustless manner? Then it's, you know, it's not an uncontroversial opinion to say, yes. We absolutely have to make some changes. Yeah. You know, what those changes are and which ones are the best? Unfortunately, at the moment, it's way above my pay grade. But I because the the the fallback from that otherwise is that we have a bifuricated system where we have the regulated KYC stuff that most people interact with, and then we have the naught point 1 percent of users that hold enough and are knowledgeable enough that they are able to use something like the Lightning Network where they can go and do it themselves, but the amount of people they've got to be able to interact with is is fairly limited because everybody else wasn't able to get onboarded or didn't have the know how or the the interest to be able to go through all those hoops.
So it's it's a very, very difficult one, and and, you know, Lopp and James OB painted it far more eloquently than I ever could. So I urge everybody to go out and check those. But, yeah, I sit in the camp of there definitely needs to be changes to be made at the moment in the current landscape with my current knowledge. I think CTV would be a good idea, but, yeah, who knows what the future is gonna hold?
[01:25:29] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, it's like a beautiful listed building. You don't wanna make changes that are gonna make it ugly or changes that are unnecessary, but you're still gonna need to do bits of plumbing and maintenance. And I think they covered, you know, there's the quantum stuff potentially in the future. There's the problem, like you said, that not everyone can use lightning, that it can't scale to to every user on the planet. Well Yeah. That may be so, but we also we're far, far, far, far, far, far from every person in the world wanting to use Bitcoin. Like, 99% of the world couldn't give a fuck at the moment. It doesn't mean that we don't get there and, you know, we always need to be looking to make changes. I just think it's really hard for, like, the majority of people to understand what's going on under the hood. It's so complicated, and you don't know what these changes are gonna affect that people are scared of, of making the changes. So that that's why we need, like, the technical people that can explain this well. I think, you know, Lobb did a good job of of going through that with Seth, and, it's worth people listening to that. But I don't know. Like I said before, I don't even know really what CTV is gonna do. I don't know if I want it. I'm just not confident enough about anything to make any decisions because I'm not technical. So I always have to ask, you know, like you've just said, you think you like the idea of it. Mhmm. It gets closer to a time where that might get pushed. I'm then gonna be badgering you and questioning, what about this? What about that?
And and just have to ask someone who knows more. And you'll be doing the same to someone else, and they'll be doing the same to someone else. And, yeah, it's not easy.
[01:27:06] Unknown:
Indeed. So hope that answers your question, Jordan. Great question, by the way. And, yeah. Yeah. Thanks, mate. I will, catch you in 2 weeks, Max. Okay, mate. We'll talk about CTV.
[01:27:17] Unknown:
Cheers, dude. Alright, mate. Speak to you later.
