Welcome back to the Bitcoin Brief! In this unique episode, I caught up with QnA, Dice Rolls, Black Coffee, and Ben Gunn at his site. We explored the area, checked out the new CNC machine, and enjoyed a chaotic yet fun gathering with quad bikes, motocross bikes, and dogs running around. Despite the audio challenges due to background noise, it was a fantastic reunion.
We had a barbecue, thanks to Dice Rolls, who cooked up a storm with chicken, sausages, and more, despite some equipment challenges. The atmosphere was lively, with discussions ranging from Bitcoin updates to the new dojo on Start Nine, which I recorded separately with Jordan.
We also touched on the latest developments in Bitcoin and privacy tools, including the integration of Cake Wallet with Passport Prime. The conversation veered into the realm of Nostr and its potential to revolutionise digital identity and privacy, despite some concerns about security and key management.
In the midst of all this, we took a moment to appreciate the support from our listeners and community, who continue to boost the show and share it widely. A big thank you to everyone involved in making this episode possible.
Stay tuned for more exciting updates and discussions in the next episode, where we'll dive deeper into the latest innovations in the Bitcoin space.
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(00:03:03) THANK YOU FOUNDATION
(00:04:20) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET
(00:05:19) 5 Guys in a Wood Shed
(00:07:25) Samourai, the DOJ & Political Shifts
(00:11:20) Dojo on Start9
(00:17:53) What About the Grannies?
(00:27:20) Come Skydiving With Us
(00:31:29) Nostr Feels Like Bitcoin in 2018
(00:40:22) Citadel Timber
(00:53:46) Dogs Running on Diesel
(01:05:48) The UK Has Fallen
(01:15:18) Passport Primes & Sovereign Burgers
(01:22:50) Long Way to Drive Home
[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to the Bitcoin Brief. This one is very different. I met with Bitcoin q and a, dice rolls, black coffee, and Ben Gunn at Ben Gunn's site. We went and had a look round, looked at the lakes, looked at the new CNC machine, looked at everything that was being developed there. It was really good to catch up with everyone. We sat around a table with one mic. The audio quality is not the best. I've run it through a load of special AI stuff, done lots of trickery to try and get rid of the background noise from the docks and machinery and everything else that was going on. The audio is far from perfect, but it was amazing catching up with everyone. I just wish I could paint the scene so that people could see what we saw. Dice rolls out on the barbecue that wasn't working with a blowtorch and a massive gas tank cooking us chicken and sausages.
The dogs flying around, machinery everywhere, quad bikes and motocross bikes, and it was absolute carnage as is usual with anything that Ben Gunn touches. We also didn't really cover the new dojo on start nine. I recorded a separate episode with Jordan on this. I was going to play it for everyone and then talk about it. It didn't happen. You can't get a word in edgeways with Ben Ben Gunn, let me tell you. Twenty four hours over there ages you a couple of years. It's hard work, but it's worth it. So the part where I say inserting audio now is not actually gonna be inserted. That's gonna go on a separate episode. So have a listen to that. Let us know if you have any questions. I'm very excited about that update.
And before I wrap it on for the rest of the day, I just wanna say a big thank you to everyone involved in this episode. Big thank you to Dice Rolls for putting on such a spread, sausages and chicken and burgers and halloumi and all sorts of things. It was, pretty awesome. So thank you for doing that, mate. Thank you also to everyone who has been boosting the show, sharing it with friends and family, making clips, retweeting, and everything else that you're doing. We really do appreciate it. I'd also like to take a moment to thank our sponsors. They really help us put this content out, keep it consistent, keep the quality high, allow us to do these type of meet ups, as well as making incredible products. I'd like to start with foundation.
Passport Prime. It was the first time getting one of these in my hands. The feel, the weight, the quality of this thing is incredible. So I really can't wait to get my own and start playing with it. I think it's gonna be April that these things are gonna start shipping. If you haven't already ordered one or you haven't checked them out, you can go back and listen to the full episode I did with Zach and q for the announcement of it where we go into a lot more detail. Or you can go to foundation.xyz, and you can use the code Ungovernable for a discount. I don't actually think that is gonna be working for the Passport Prime yet. Maybe Q can tell me if that's true or not. I think it's gonna be just be for the passport or anything else on the website. But test it. Go and check it out. At very least, if you're ordering a passport, you will definitely get a discount, and it helps support the show. A big thank you also goes out to Cake Wallet. Cake Wallet have been supporting the show for around six months now.
Again, we talked about them in this episode because they're gonna be the first app going on to the new Passport Prime. I'm very excited about this. It really is an important step. And having Q on one team and Seth on the other team. They're two people that I have incredible amount of respect for and work extremely hard to help people be secure and private. With K wallet you can easily connect to your own Bitcoin or Monero nodes, You can swap between them. You can spend, buy gift cards, and much, much more. If you're actually using Bitcoin and Monero, this really is an incredible tool. They have over half a million users already. And if you're not one already, check them out at cakewallet.com, and enjoy the show.
Well, we're recording whenever anyone wants to jump in. Is it, yep. Does it work? Yep. You just tested it. It's all good. Has everyone got a chair?
[00:05:30] Unknown:
That is coffee. Have we got coffee as a bit? Yeah. I think there's still a bit in the jug, is there? No. I just took the last bit.
[00:05:39] Unknown:
Have you seen the Terry tape version of this? You kill the joke, you make some mo. Good coffee, that. Skills? Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. That's all you need. Like, all this stuff. Fancy shit. Fancy shit. What did you do with? Just a trip thing. Yeah. Match storm stamp.
[00:05:54] Unknown:
What are you doing?
[00:05:56] Unknown:
Hey, Laura. Hey, Colin.
[00:06:01] Unknown:
Laura loves it. Keep bringing that wig that stuff. I'm in this humpy birthday. You killed it, Joe. You made some mom. You know that, baby.
[00:06:12] Unknown:
They're loaded in their NFL commercials. They're excellent. He does one where he farts and a lift as well as crocodile. Is there actually no coffee? There's no coffee. You never liked what it was. Fucking prick. Well, haven't you got herpes? Have you got herpes? Yeah. That's the that's all you that's what you have. See all that was looking like. Who? Oh. Well You can do all the food. We can eat that. We're brothers now. Oh, I'm gonna do it. Cheers. Not even a lot of it. We got about five new latent diseases for about three sips of coffee. Gonna bring the foods. Now is that what I'm gonna talk? Yeah. We got food at lunch, innit? We can keep it warm. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it warm in my crew. I can say who's here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
So dice rolls, Ben Gunn, got black coffee, and q and a. The absolute treat to it and some dogs knocking around. Dog Samson?
[00:06:54] Unknown:
Filthy dogs. What's your dog's name? The one that's standing on all my artwork? How oh, yeah. I'm Jopson dog. Never dogs. You would you're doing a bitch. Whatever you were, you were just standing on limited edition copies of Citadogs 21. Go over there. I do love you, though.
[00:07:07] Unknown:
Come here. It's because mine's in the way. Bit of a different situation. Coming right down. Coming right down. Yeah. No plans have we? We've got no talking points. Nope. No news. No software updates. You could say we're very unprepared. Could we just finish off? Yeah. So that Now let's wrap it up. See you next week. But I did wanna talk about the dojo updates because that's a big one. Are those guys,
[00:07:31] Unknown:
had any sunlight shone on them from Trump yet? Who? The samurai guys. No mention. So they just got they just got, like, memory hold.
[00:07:40] Unknown:
It seems that way. Yeah. Got Ross for now. Yeah. We got Ross, but they that we're still working on them. I think there's some talk, or, like, some people are trying to push to see if Ross might do a little tweet because they did a lot when Ross was inside.
[00:07:52] Unknown:
Yep. They donate to the cause. And Ross was also vouching for, Roger Ver, wasn't he, last week? Oh, yeah.
[00:07:59] Unknown:
So everybody's jumped on the bandwagon to say, look, you know, if you're vouching for for Roger, you need to be kind of pushing for samurai as well because they they were I don't understand how you can vouch for Roger Ver or not vouch for him. Like, is it something like a topic related issue? Like a principle based thing where Roger's a dick, but not the reason he's supportive of it. To be play devil's advocate for a guy who's just out of prison. No. I reckon it's more he's probably been told. By who? People who let him out, maybe? No. I reckon. But for the samurai guys, like, the bigger news, nearly the bigger news than being arrested, that's the biggest news. But the heads of every federal department of The US has just cleaned out more than they have ever cleaned anything out. Kash Patel and whoever else, Tulsi Gabbard, all changed at that. And I think they've sacked all the SaruSai local DA's as well. So the entire bones and sinews of the legal system have kind of just been switcherooed.
[00:08:49] Unknown:
I don't know what the implications of that are, but Yeah. I don't know. Huge change in the wind. But it would be nice to see him say something because it's like I think even they made a painting for him and Yeah. Like a yeah. Oh, yeah. They did a free Ross painting him and, like, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, talk about value for value. Samurai did what they could to try and help him. Maybe nice to see that return. I mean, I don't think Roger Ver should be in prison. No one fucking should for that sort of stuff, but I think samurai, is a much more important cause than old Roger.
[00:09:18] Unknown:
I didn't even know he's still alive. I would I wouldn't be if I was offside at 300,000 bit actual Bitcoins. Is that what he is? Well, that's how much he sold in the forecourt. Jesus Christ. That's how much he had, I think. He's like, well, hold my beer. So I I I couldn't live under a canopy that I'd be I'd be in the woods for good reasons. I'm amazed he's still upright. And he was on, what was the what was the big show he was on the other day? Yes. I know the one. It was on Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson. Yeah. What you're doing? Yeah. And he didn't mention samurai either. And they knew each other. Why did Roger Verne mention Sam? Well, because they knew each other. They worked together. Doesn't matter. Like, this, like The fact And and they're in the same they're in the same
[00:09:58] Unknown:
sort of boat ish,
[00:10:00] Unknown:
where it's like, come on. But it's broader than Bitcoin. The political prosecutions are broader than Bitcoin. And the tie went that went out for Trump as he was being prosecuted was under the same shit. Ross was in prison forever if the other one had got in. Oh, yeah. The end of. Like, end of. And then probably not a proper election after that, in my opinion. Yeah. So that whole country's just changed so much that calling it the same name is ridiculous, I think, at this point. It's a complete operating system level whip out. They can only be to Samurais benefit. That's what I'm thinking. It's like They can't legitimize Bitcoin in the law and then retrospectively
[00:10:35] Unknown:
prosecute the use of Bitcoin. But how do you get that out there? Like, how do you get Tucker Carlson, all these bigger people talking about yeah. Because it's like, you know, Roger's getting a load of limelight, and everyone's fucking quiet out there with the samurai stuff. I don't hear it and talks about hardly ever other than in, like, the tiny little circles that we run-in. It's like, it's not on any of them. And for that matter, Julian Assange and Stellar Assange, you know, Absolutely every reason to spend the time however they bloody want, but no comment. And probably, like, good idea, but we don't understand what they've been told and I get really get that one more. Like, Julian Assange, I'm like, mate, just fucking go and enjoy the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Like %.
[00:11:15] Unknown:
Health, like Just go and do it. See your family. Touch grass. I mean, fucking hell. You know what I mean? Imagine.
[00:11:20] Unknown:
Yeah. So fine. But, like But on the positive side, we've got Dojo going on to star nine. So coffee, you've been pretty close to this one. Yeah. I'm gonna fill in some details. I'm gonna play I'm gonna insert a clip from me talking to Jordan, like,
[00:11:37] Unknown:
now so people get some of the stuff. But Yeah. We're great. You can That's an interesting noise. Oh, Max. That's in here as well. Wow. We just saw a little insight into Max's workflow. Yeah. Get terrified.
[00:11:47] Unknown:
You got any other noise? I just in real time. I got a few up my sleeve. Crikey noise. I'll give all my noises away at once. Bloody hell, mate. A bit of foreplay, mate. And what's been going on with it? I think Jordan's been leading it mostly, hasn't he? Yeah. He's been doing a lot of the coordination of what what's been going on. Herding cats. Yeah. Yeah. Difficult cats to herd. Yeah. But what have we got now? It was getting more difficult to run dojo, I guess. So with the release of Ashigaru, there was a possibility, you know, you get Ashigaru and use a dojobay.p w, and choose someone else's dojo. So we've got Ashigaru through. But if you wanted to run your own, the choices were if you had some running dojo hardware, use that or spin up your own dojo, which is kind of tricky. It's not not for everyone, is it? Have you done it queue? Vanilla dojo? Yeah. Once. And then when it came to upgrade,
[00:12:35] Unknown:
I forgot how to do it and then gave up. Yeah. So
[00:12:38] Unknown:
I think you had similar experiences, man. Yeah. Vanilla Dojo.
[00:12:42] Unknown:
Vanilla Dojo, I had lots of problems with. Ronan Dojo, loved the team, but I had constant problems with. He's also got Umbra as well. That was shit. I've not tried it for a That was shit. I did try it and it was shit. So what's the best now just to save everyone a lot of times? This is This fucking start nine. Is this where we are? It's like We're one. We're totally one. We're setting the scene. So start Okay. Alright. Okay.
[00:13:03] Unknown:
Go on, Ben. Come on. Get on when you leave. What we're what yeah. What we're doing, Ben? Yeah. What's happening, Ben? We're just you're just talking about all the losers in order, and everyone's just waiting for which one won. Right. Go on. So what's the win? I don't know. I'm waiting. Start now. Start nine. Yeah. Here you go. Yeah. Is that what I'm here? Yeah. So we're gonna have Fulcrum,
[00:13:22] Unknown:
and Fulcrum's the, Electrum RS compatible indexer for Bitcoin. So how's it going to show? There's a start there's a start nine app. And and Dojo is a start nine app. And I don't know if whether Jordan has spoken about this bit, but it looks as though start nine are going to take those apps on as core apps Start9. Yeah. Which could be mega. So it won't be in the community section. It will be actually within their Yeah. Like, sort of blessed by someone. Marketplace. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Which means that can have the ability to run a pretty solid Bojo on a pretty solid bit of hardware. Yeah. With Ashigaru, which is a solid wallet. Yeah. So it just joins up all the things that have been missing for a while now. Mhmm. It doesn't complete the ecosystem.
But, yeah, that's where we are. It's looking it's really, really good. Jordan's done brilliant work with it. Yeah. And you did a lot of testing and bits and pieces for Yeah. Yeah. I was involved with the there's a foundation involved, like the way you used to work with Sparrow
[00:14:19] Unknown:
on Whirlpool transactions. You had a UX on Passport for that. So we had the ability to
[00:14:25] Unknown:
set, like, a specific post mix. It can be And those from the have Yeah. Straight to cold. That's kind of independent of all of this stuff, unfortunately, because to my knowledge, there's no, end to end. There's no way to connect in. No. So the Dojo software is unique to to the samurai slash Ashigaru ecosystem. It's like the back end for that style of wallet. So for, like, Envoy that, obviously, we produce,
[00:14:48] Unknown:
that is just a typical Electrum server back end, which would talk to Fulcrum, which is now gonna be on start nine, which I didn't know. So you could point it to that, but not to the Dojo software, which is, again, just for for Ashigaru or Samura. Well, it's just a matter of time, ain't it? Fucking big steps forward. Like, if you think where we were a year ago to where we are now, was it a year? How long has it been since Samura arrests? When was that? That was due was it I think it was June. I think it was June. It was June. You know, that then suddenly everything looked fucking dark for a while there. Since then, Ashigaru, then we had the Dojo Bay. Now we've got it coming on to start nine.
[00:15:26] Unknown:
Obviously, still not Whirlpool, but I'm sure And they're just the they're just the directional replacements. The one for one replacements. Oh, a bit better. Well, of course, better. But, like, the the next of that but the next one is lightning still slight partly secret. And the progress on the federation stuff, I know it's not popular with everybody, but it does offer privacy, you see. If it's big enough, if it's a big enough federation, it is like a casino with open float chips. You do have perfect privacy in it, but it just has to be big enough to have the traffic to anonymize you. You can't mean you couldn't open a federation of mixed coin. I know I don't like them. I know Q doesn't like them. Mhmm. Dice? No. I don't care about that. Like, why not? Trust. Okay. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Unknown:
I saw a tweet from Evan from Zeus yesterday, you know, on Nostra. He did great. That I perfectly summed this up. Go on. And it said, I'm gonna butcher this now, Evan. So if you're listening to this, I apologize for butchering it. But, it's something like, trusted solutions have the perfect UX until they have the worst UX,
[00:16:30] Unknown:
I. E. It's super easy to use it until you get rug pulled. Yeah. Yeah. But I I think on the UX stuff, the harder it is to use, the more chance you rug yourself, or don't. There's no I don't think there's any making something harder for someone to use and then just ask them to learn more is I think that's a bit of an abdication of the problem. The thing about the federations is if you assume everybody can learn at the pace you have, then we should all be on what we've been using now, but there will be people that need social recovery. That in terms of trust, we've already broke those rules because I can uncle Jim on my passport, Mark's, or my dad's. So we're trusting each other already in that sense. This is just a variation of that. It's just another Yeah. It was massively different to Whirlpool, though, mate. Like, it In what sense? Because it's perfectly private. So it's actually arguably better. I don't know that it is perfectly private. I think it depends. Well, chomium meat I'm not gonna make the argument. We go all can look, but you yeah. They are. Chomium mince are pepper. Peppermint. You can also get rugged.
[00:17:24] Unknown:
I'm not saying it's like a terrible idea, but what I'm saying is for a lot of people, yeah, the UX on, like, samurai and dojo was pretty horrific five years ago. It was a pain in the ass for nontechnical people. But where we are now, if slash when Whirlpool comes back, you can run a start line, piss easy, or just buy one off the fucking shelf. Mhmm. Plug it in. Done. Press one click to install Dojo. Mhmm. Install Ashigaru.
[00:17:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. But Scapegoat. It's it's all that. Right? And that's fine. I get it. But 90% of people who don't use Bitcoin are never ever ever gonna get it ever. I agree with that. They can't they can't even get checks removed from The UK, paper checks, to buy it, and too many grannies use them. That's the real bar. I get that. And you're paying fees. And you've got UTXO management problems because you you remember that time you forgot what your your label ends? Yeah. Right. Very much. Right. So it's not functionally private for the average user. I just don't think that you can't really compare the two. Yeah. It's it's apples and oranges, isn't it? I'd rather put somebody out of an exchange, take off the exchange, and have them land in a federated mint, than just leave left on the exchange and the gap being, well, you've gotta learn out that you gotta go and roll dice in the yard 500 times, because that's the best practice. Who runs the mints? Who do tricks? Do you have any Well, it's it's yeah. Obviously, it's degrees of trust. That's true. That's a tricky thing. But you've got trust problems anyway. You've you've left how many Bitcoins are still on the exchanges? So it's not you're not making it perfect. You're making it against I mean, the risk in terms of who runs them. So, So, like, if you run a min, I guess now allowing all this privacy and perfect privacy in theory and all that. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're running one of these things. Yeah. Now you're a money transmitter or whatever fucking label is put on it. Yeah. So who will run the min? That's the elephant in the room for me. Well, we'll run the mints. Well, if you go if you retreat from that and you run whirlpools instead, any e t x o's that are marked as though looking that they've just gone through a whirlpool aren't redeemable in the real world straight away. On the principle that we've we just spiked the mixers who made the mixer, so so if you go and make your own container and you run it yourself, fine, but now you're the closest nerve ending to a stomp. So if you retreat that way, you've kept your fees, you've kept the user experience problems, you're back to where you started before they got swatted, the developers, and now that risk is on anybody running it. Maybe. And if Federation's not, that's a problem as well because it looks like you're posting into a wallet. But the wallet stays, I think, just stays as a BC fixed wallet.
[00:19:55] Unknown:
When you peg into a mint and peg out Mhmm. It looks just like a lightning transaction.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So it so Which which can look like a personal transaction. You can make an argument you that you So to tie that up then, so you have the potential issue or stomping point with Whirlpool is, right, you've been through Whirlpool. We wanna now somehow say that you can't spend these funds. Okay. Fine. Open a liking channel. Send it into a mint. But so you're already, like, talking about privacy, you're already on lightning again. After fees, after you've mixed, you go on a Lightning channel is is your fix. If someone wants to stop buying. But they should, like, guess who? You've got the whole board is, like, people who wanna use money, and we're down, like, first thing first two steps of that process. You get there, you're private, and you've done it, but 90 of those people out of the hundred in the board are gone. Not usable. Not scalable. No one's got the time to learn all that. And that's what I'm saying. It's it's you can't make great the enemy of good if a federation just lets you roll off onto a pool that's not the exchange. You've taken a direct counterparty risk with the exchange. And, yeah, you've got to take your chances with the guardians of that pool. But the thing is it's not But it's three times. This is not a binary choice. It's not a case of federation or Whirlpool. It's like this stuff exists for whoever wants to use it. Mhmm. And if you want to be the cheapest routes of privacy. Yeah. Like, total privacy in the money. Yep. There's trade offs, isn't it? It is. Of course. Of course. But that's a very good one. Show me a mint. We get to see it in the world and see it working properly and people using it and who's who's gonna run that. There's loads of fucking questions around it, and you're right. Like, using both and having the options is best.
[00:21:28] Unknown:
But I disagree that it's difficult now if we got Whirlpool back to run it because it is
[00:21:35] Unknown:
one click on fucking Start nine. Mhmm. One click. That's it. One clear. Yeah. I know. I know. Yeah. Never spent less than fucking five days setting a full node up or you, but that will be remain to be seen. Maybe it'll be Well, my no. My Start nine setting up my Start nine this time was, even running it on my old laptop, pretty fucking painful. Did you get help to us or someone who No. No. Did they soften the pickle jar up for you? I've fucked it since then doing Did they do it all, repack it, and then pretend that you were just doing it from the start? But they've actually just turned it on. Did it say max on it when it loaded up? Yeah. You must press here. Press hit that big bloody red button. Uh-huh. It's simple. Mate, yeah. I haven't This simple. Like, it's I fucking can do it. It's a relative statement, and we've we've just become really comfortable with doing stuff that's a bit tasty.
Yeah. Yeah. And they don't no one talks to the ones that are just not using it. But what about someone who's buying anyone can buy a start nine prebuilt and plug it into their fucking Ethernet cable. Yeah. But anybody can walk around this line, but they'd have to bring Wellies. Anyone can flash it. It's that easy, innit? Anyone.
[00:22:40] Unknown:
Any fucking retail can do it, and then anyone can go on on the graph graphical user interface Insta Dojo.
[00:22:47] Unknown:
So why isn't it adopted? Why is it not in there yet? So the dam's gonna burst whenever this gets released? Not really because I don't through your wave of baby boomers with you some bit. No. What I'm saying is that anyone who cares can. Mhmm. Even non technical ones. Like someone like me who five years ago would spend
[00:23:05] Unknown:
a whole weekend fucking around and breaking stuff and calling queue and like, oh, broken this and how the fuck is this working? Oh, stress. And in channels and, fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Now, me five years ago could go, Ethan and a cable install done. I'm looking forward to the video. Yeah. Nothing's that easy. Except the new Prime. Except neither.
[00:23:26] Unknown:
I did check. I didn't pay him to say that, by the way. Yeah. And I haven't even seen it at all, but he's a very good illustrator. Q and A. I haven't even seen it. But the drawing he did looks really good. Yeah. That was a good drawer, especially with crayons. You're an artist. Dark mode is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shaded. I know it's a bit we've got heads on that, but I it's just
[00:23:46] Unknown:
There's room for me. Yeah. I yeah. Like, exactly that. Well, let the best one When it comes to fatty mince any, cashew, it's difficult one, isn't it? Like, you're I'm not doing I'm not doing cat cattle's work. Like, you're not gonna It's a dinosaur fight, mate. Like, you you don't you don't like cashew. I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm speaking for you. But there there's reasons for it that there are good use cases for it. Like, I'm not gonna put all my Bitcoin into a consuming Yeah. %. But there's times I don't you are. Yeah. But, like, there's all this stuff. It's like none of it's binary. It can all exist.
[00:24:18] Unknown:
I don't think you can tell people you shouldn't use stuff. No. No. I I I and to be clear, I don't think I ever have said don't use No. You should. You should. You should. You should. You should. This. I guess. It's it's a case of and in fairness, the people behind Cashew, like Cali, obviously, like, he's very, very forthcoming with the trade offs more than anybody is. But not everybody is, unfortunately. So I just my my main gripe or bugbear is is to just make sure that you're very clear about the trade offs. Private wallet of Satoshi. Yeah. Exactly. That that sort of stuff. But yeah. You you're absolutely right in terms of, like, use cases. Like, if the use case the specific use case that you wanna look at is how do I onboard to NoStar and receive value straight away, CashView is perfect for me. Yeah. You you don't need to fuck about. You just you just like, it's it's there. It works. It's good. It's done. But is it something that I would push somebody to to be like, this is your first onboarding into, you know, air quotes Bitcoin?
Then I think you're doing them a disservice. So it it's
[00:25:15] Unknown:
the right application for the right use case. So I don't think people are getting the right information because there's VC money behind some of this stuff. In sense. And not necessarily Khashu, but other stuff. Yeah. And therefore, people aren't saying these are the issues, maybe you should consider what you should do as of. How many times we talk about on the show all the time, but these fucking dickheads who go around the world onboarding people onto Wallet of Satoshi and thinking they're changing the world, that is a big step up to use something like Cashew compared to Wallet of Satoshi privacy wise. Yeah. It's still custodial, but it's a massive step up. Like, it's You can't separate the two because if they've if they've done it on Wallace Satoshi, that got up someone's ass who was doing cashew work, and they said, fuck that. We'll do it this way. Mhmm. And it's just stepping stones. But the there's a big advantage to doing stuff even if it looks a bit paper mache behind the scenes. Statements and physical examples of something working are a big deal. Even if they're not even if they look more filled out than they really are, it's a big advantage to to use something that does have a trade off if it's easier just to show you can. It's even if that's the hook, and then they realize your point of view and say, alright. Well, that makes it a lot easier, but I'd rather be a bit on the safe side, and they can pick their basket they sit in. But some people, I don't think, will ever need leave Nosta for Bitcoin and transactions.
You can put them all together into one account. That's it. No one will go up the ladder unless it's big amounts of money, and then they'll just buy the service from a business. That's what happens in Bitcoin. Anything that's technically not possible for a while, it's like a business forms around it. I guess, like, multisync was kinda that like Casa were doing that. Exactly. And then the other one is like the lightning lightning was a bent it was a white paper, then it was a lightning torch, then the, like, the channel thing became a problem, and then it became lightning service providers. Yeah. Right? So It makes it popular for a reason. Because Yeah. They wouldn't have existed if channels would have been fixed technically, but they persisted like a broken bone, and then the business grew around it. So if anything stays stuck in Bitcoin, 5 4 3 2 1, a business comes out offering a business solution with trade offs, the tech guys are upset. They wanna have the problem that doesn't work, and the business trying to square the circle kinda gets shit. Is that what I've seen as a pattern?
But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. So that's the agenda. What else is going on in, Bitcoin? What are people
[00:27:26] Unknown:
upset about or excited about?
[00:27:28] Unknown:
To turn to I don't know. You've not really been in the in the world of Bitcoin. Dice, what have you got for us? Not Bitcoin. Your thoughts? I haven't at the moment, then. No. You've just been eating. You've just been going back and forth on a barbecue, feeding yourself sausages while we're talking. Sausages cooked with a blowtor. Wore a hole in my carpet. You're also looking after two dogs.
[00:27:48] Unknown:
Don't doubt sick. I'm so tuned out at the moment. You're tuned into after the Yeah. I tuned into what's going on here. But, like, broader, I'm just I'm so timed out from it. Like, I work on stuff that's useful.
[00:28:02] Unknown:
Stuff that I think should exist. And Apart from that, I don't care about the latest thing. Mhmm. There's repetitive arguments now. Yeah. You you you feel like you're going back in time. Sometimes you're going to the wrong thread. Greybeard Syndrome. It's just it's just they're just arguing on stuff that was resolved years ago, like it's new. You graduate from, I think, from Bitcoin. You graduate from it. You can't go back and enjoy that pond with that finance guy that put the piece in and the puzzle for you. Once you've done the tour, you're fucking done. Yeah. You check back in for big check. Figure out your use case, you get comfortable with the tools that you like, and then you can as a tune out a little bit. And because to keep up with the latest and greatest CTV covenants, all that sort of stuff, and all the arguments, and the pros and cons around it, and then the next thing with lightning, like, it's it's a full time job Yeah. That was true. Twice over. The no bullshit Bitcoin thing, if it gets on that, it's worth a look down. Yeah. It's worth three minutes or spritz, thirty seconds, that app and Ellen bits, blah blah blah blah. Right, done. And even, like, with stuff like OPCAT, CTB, that sort of thing, it doesn't really matter. I'm not gonna change anything by getting heads up about it. Like, it'll come into existence or it won't, and I can use it if I want to if it comes into existence. It can't be worse than the hard fork. Like, if that fucking happened, they traded through that. So just tell it tells you one. Hiss and honking, just tell us you won. Or no one won. It's a waste of time. Come here and build houses. Yes. Yeah.
You'll you'll have a house at the end, not just tired. Do you think things are quieter now than they were four years ago? Or is it just me being tuned? No. I care. Care less well. I think everyone around this table cares less not cares less, but like No more. We're just thinking Well, how many times do you forget How many times do you watch your favorite movie even though it's your favorite?
[00:29:39] Unknown:
It's not your whole life. It's a tool. Bitcoin is a tool. It's not the thing. It's not the god. It's just an easier way to get along on something very important. That's it. This is the wallet software I use. I like Smaro. I don't care about these extra really, honestly, I don't really care because I'm like, it's so fucking good. Yeah. That's what I use. Yeah. And I use a passport.
[00:30:00] Unknown:
I don't really care about other stuff. Past that, like, he used Whirlpool when it was around because that was what I like, past that, it's like, I don't really fucking know. See, so that's what we're trying to do. So when you feel like that, come skydiving with us. And when you're all bored and sad about where you're at, just come and I'll just come and push you out of a plane. Literally. Good analogy. Literally. Because this is the other thing, like, as a thesis, everybody's got bigger bags than they've got character to judge when and how to use it. And, yeah, you can lock it in a well and get £10,000,000 or lock yourself in prison, but there's a game here in your life, and you've got to use it like a tool so it doesn't run you. You're those busy. This room's just gonna be full of sticks, but it Yeah. It's like this watery tip of alarm table. We got a ball up here. Dicks and sausages. Yeah. I think for me around, like, staying up to date and stuff, when when I was really
[00:30:53] Unknown:
at the stage where I couldn't get enough of this sort of stuff, like 2018, '20 '19, the community was so much smaller, and the conversation was much more focused around the latest developments and, yeah, and, like, much more ethos driven. Yeah. Whereas now, it's just we just talk about Trump. We talk about the next bank. We talk about Saylor. Yeah. And I just like that just doesn't interest me. So that's part of the reason why I don't stay as up to date with the the, you know, the wider conversation because it's just not for me. But what is then what would be the what would be the other storyline where you're like, right, I've gotta get back in and check-in? Is it the ground game? For me, it's the conversation on Nosta, basically Right. At the moment. It is. It's it Nosta now feels like I've only been in twenty years. No. No. Like,
[00:31:41] Unknown:
mate. Jesus. I think arguably,
[00:31:44] Unknown:
Nosta's bigger than Bitcoin for a period of time. Like, it can I think it does this? We'll go that far. No. No. Because because it's just hand in glove with Bitcoin. If you're onboard a Gnostr user, you've basically onboard the Bitcoiner. But the addressable market for Gnostr users has no gaps to carry because it's a means to an end. So if we use it to start certifying on the different training systems or memberships or any other type of endorsement or proof of work, anybody, a mountain bike instructor, a farmer, anybody who needs that record ships a Bitcoin wallet off their nosta. And then that adoption rate, I think the adoption rate overtakes Bitcoin in whatever pro rata way that is. And then when everyone's on nosta, then they pick up more Bitcoin.
Mhmm. Maybe. It's that big. Max isn't convinced. I just fucking You just see a Twitter clone. No. No. No. No. No. I think you're comparing it to social than And you're not you've gotta go on through all the nips and what they promise. No. And you go, fucking hell, that's the that's the Internet on an a four piece of paper? No. Yeah.
[00:32:42] Unknown:
What I feel
[00:32:43] Unknown:
Don't care what you feel. You know, I
[00:32:45] Unknown:
hear too much hype. And usually, when I hear too much hype, things are quite shit. It gives me that feeling of, like Poop you. Yeah. There's this feeling around it where I'm, like, I get the technical aspects of what it can do. And, yeah, it's not just a Twitter clone. I understand the need for it, and I get it. Cool. There's something about it. Maybe it's because it's very VC heavy. It feels like it's being feels like it is. It feels like the way it's shield is not completely organic. Like, it's like wrap up the people who are already in Bitcoin, feed them this, and it is cool, and it just I don't know. It doesn't feel it doesn't feel as organic as Bitcoin did to me. That's all it is. I understand that they're It's gonna be quicker to the punch with if if it looks and feels like Bitcoin about a third of it, the mechanics, the
[00:33:32] Unknown:
Keith pairs, the Mhmm. Then, of course, businesses are gonna get to it quicker. Of course, they're gonna go right, this is the Bitcoin of this it has got a bit of that shitcoin feel to it. Like something ramping up behind Bitcoin and threatening, but it isn't competing with money. No. It's not money. No proof of work anyway. No blockchain. So it keeps all the good bits of Bitcoin, and it sort of tessellates with it perfectly. Where you onboard to one, you can onboard to the other. And you can put it on an app for anything. It can it'll replace Strava, LinkedIn.
All the socials are gone. They're gone.
[00:34:04] Unknown:
That security part that I bang on about all the time and that I think you might have fixed possibly with, with Passport is a massive hole for me as well. Like, I just don't like that part. I don't like feeling like you could put all this energy and time into something that you could lose.
[00:34:20] Unknown:
Yeah. So you so you're talking about, like, basically, your your digital identity being a private key, basically. And if you fuck up with that private key, your digital identity is toast. Yeah. I I don't think that's fixed.
[00:34:32] Unknown:
There's solutions around it, like We just do a federated mint style social recovery for that. Yeah. But the problem is if that private key falls into the wrong hands Yeah. It doesn't matter whether you can recover it or not. Well, if it's a social recovery, if you if you just have to meet three of the other people that helped you make it, that you know as friends, and the other guys took it. It's if it falls into the wrong hands. Yeah. So so so it does, and then they send a few, like, Max's gaze out on the two. So it is not Max's gaze. It's you build a massive you build well, it is. You build a a massive
[00:35:01] Unknown:
following over a long time. You have the load of listeners or whatever it is. Yeah. Or a business around it. Mhmm. Someone now gains access to your n pub Yeah. Whatever, nsec. And then now, they control it. My issue is, like, that could be really dangerous.
[00:35:19] Unknown:
Open doors with it and So that's like just that's just Bitcoin again. No. It's but it's not you just you've just gone from one to the other because on on the Bitcoin stuff, it's like, keep it on the exchange or spin up 12 words, and you've gotta be responsible. Right? And then the NOSA, I don't like it because ultimately, I could put some reputation on it. And if I don't manage the 12 words properly, I lose them. Well, yeah. Fucking everybody. Managing. Managing. It's better than Bitcoin because no one can spend that reputation after a certain point once once you've gone out and said, that's it. It's not my account anymore. It's different. If you could have something like you could have your NSEC, and then you have child NSEC. No. You could you could have brother and sister, so you could just say, right, I'm gonna launch in two new end end clubs, and one signs something joint with the other, and then you keep them in separate places. And all the multiset coming through are lost. All frost is coming through. I was just about to say, yeah. There is ways to fix it, but it's just too early to And for one And for one of them
[00:36:12] Unknown:
to take prevalent. So you've got stuff like a HSM mode, like NSEP bunker, where you have it on a node and it's Yeah. It you talk to it remotely. You've got apps like Amber that are a separate app on your phone, where that's the only one that you put the trust in. You got solutions coming up on Passport where it's like an offline device where it talks via Bluetooth to your phone that holds your private keys, so segregation that way. You've got the multisig sort of stuff for you. I think we're just gonna have to wait and see which one See which one works out. Yeah. But, yeah, it's definitely a risk, especially now because basically,
[00:36:41] Unknown:
what most people are doing is just pasting their insect everywhere, and there is gonna be people who get hurt. But no, but the risk is that we're using LinkedIn to make business relationships. That's the fucking risk. Not not using something that is very, very high fidelity and the one in million chances you get your key swept and you're important enough for that to matter. The risk is everybody goes out on a network where you can just say what you want, and there's no proof of work. There's no audit or record of what you've done. There's no signed events. There's no check ins that can't be invented. And it's all fake anyway. Like, the minute you've just got that, even if there was a fifty fifty chance over five years, you lose your reputation, you still run for as long as you do on the reputation that's still better than your Uber score or at least as good as your Uber score, not your Uber score.
But, you know, the the Nostos, I just think it's gonna be bigger. It's gonna be picked up quicker is the other way of putting it. It's gonna get picked up quicker than Bitcoin in the same stretch of time, and it will help Bitcoin get adopted. Just whatever feature cracks in Nosta that a non Bitcoin user needs has Bitcoin on the back end for free. Do we have any real actual metrics
[00:37:43] Unknown:
of
[00:37:44] Unknown:
use on it? Hard because it's decentralized, the same as Bitcoin. Like, the metrics have all all come with health warnings. Like, it could like, in Bitcoin, you can make transactions a little Or like how many you can measure it. Is it 500,000 users a year ago? I think was a good number. Yeah. Nosto.band
[00:37:58] Unknown:
has stats on it. I'm gonna dig in that. Okay. Yeah. You can get, like, daily active users,
[00:38:02] Unknown:
active end pubs, and then dormant accounts. You can see all that sort of stuff. There must be stuff on the Bitcoin transactions as well. There must be No. Because that links into all the podcasting two point o stuff, so excuse it. But doesn't oh, I see. Right? So you can't there's no, like, natural local transaction level. I don't think. I think you probably could do it, but they lump it in. So when when you see these spouts, it's like, oh, there's this much Bitcoin being moved. It's like just a load of Well, it's fucking boosts on podcasting two point o. That's what it is. But even that, like like, you can do talk about triple entry accounting and all that. If you had Nosta, we're looking at it for the business we're in in here. You could have a an end pub attached to a tractor, an end pub attached to a worker. And if they don't have the right license, they've knocked on the first aid, the tractor hasn't got an MOT, the fucking thing won't open. So you talk about audit and health and safety. If you had a tap signer style thing, regardless of the risks of it being lost at the bottom, they'll give a shit, make another one. They can get into somewhere or not be in somewhere
[00:38:55] Unknown:
on live rails for safety stuff. It's already double fucking 12 words doesn't matter. Yeah. You just get a card to somebody and That side of it, I think, is really cool. And when it starts to be coming into, like, you talk some of the physical world stuff here where you wanna do it and reputational stuff and blah blah blah. Very, very cool. That opens up a whole different
[00:39:15] Unknown:
world, basically. Because you can do payments at the same time as access control. You can do payments at the same time as access control. So you can enter the building Cost. Pay in or not. Check your end pub. Yeah. Are you a long time donor to the show? As an example, if you're generous and you sent lots of zaps and you've got an Anoster account, it's irrepeatable good faith, isn't it? And then say those people who are producing content came into lots and lots of commercial land with lots and lots of cheap products. We just take a query of the mPubs and say, right. Anybody in that white list is 50% discounted on something you don't have to go to a Fiat shop for Yeah. Yeah. Across a range of different things, food, materials, services, training, holidays, whatever you want. And when you pay, you pay at the exact same time as when the door opens or when you order a table or when you order something. Yeah. Yeah. And it pays the workers at the same time because it prisms into a project that's already costed on a template. And the bloke who's doing the table gets it into their Bitcoin wallet when they say the job's finished. And it sits in an escrow at project level, unlike a company that has a treasury in its legal entity. You can budget projects with Bitcoin along Nosta.
[00:40:22] Unknown:
What Nostery, Bitcoin y, cool shit can you guys talk about here? Because we are sat at Citadel Timber with still a long way from what I can imagine, but a fucking big step forward from when I was last here, which was only, I don't know, couple of months ago? Couldn't have been. Month. We've we had a month and a half maybe. Month and a half. Yeah. Big step forward. There's a lot going on here. So as you think about where this is going,
[00:40:47] Unknown:
where does Nostra and Bitcoin fit into this business? Just integral to mine. It it's absolutely integral, Nostra. Because the whole cost of doing business in in at least in The UK is dealing with the public. The amount of businesses in the graveyard because they tried to face the public doing something good hearted Yeah. And just got destroyed. So this idea that the risk is in your counterpart is a customer, but we've got really good quality customers. It means that we can audit people in a good faith way. You got us. Hey, mate. You alright? Your steak? Sausage? This is the guy this is the guy that stays quiet in it. They're all in the barbecue. It's keeping warm. Good for audio quality. I'm gonna go get them. What's that? ASML. We add it to the spit up. No. We keep and this is this is chicken.
[00:41:26] Unknown:
Go see dice rolls. How technically annoying is it fitting this stuff, or is it all kind of
[00:41:33] Unknown:
Make I think what Ben was talking about. I haven't. I haven't yet. Go ahead. It's all doable. I'm keeping it. It's all doable. Like I was saying to someone when we're in awe, none of it's hard. It's just doing it. It's understanding the vision, which is not always easy as it can be. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:49] Unknown:
Fuck off. And then building it. That's the hard bit. Yeah. And then having peoples come in and use it. That's the thing. All this tech stuff, it's shit if you haven't got a proper business. I don't think a tech company is a real I don't think it's this ridiculous thing to say. A tech company. It's like, what? Tech could tech what? It's only good against what it makes cheaper in a real business. And the tech, the AI, and all of that, that's not a company. That's reducing friction on stuff that takes ages because it's notebooks and nowadays emails, and later on, it will just click straight away. So we're saying Nosta, you if the atomic unit, one of them in Nosta is the accounts and one is the events. They're the atomic units. Across those two things, you can inventory an entire business and automate it. You can make Nosta into project open source project management software. And when you open a project, a Nosta would knit whatever 90.
Mhmm. It opens a project container with a Bitcoin wallet at the top that assigns an owner from the creator of the project, and then dispenses the stakeholders as they're paid. T shirt sized for dead work, bounties for physical work or for particular problems, and people can donate into that project. It will dissolve what a company is probably because you don't need a central treasury in a company anymore because that was what fiat banking stopped at. But, Nosta, you can fund things down to pennies. We can do it where later on, say, October has an end pub with a zap receivable in it. We've got a battery bank here. If someone wants to zap us 50 p's worth of electric, we can literally just put a trigger on on the grid and just pull 50 p of electric into batteries we've got. No one's gonna send me 50 p. Remember when,
[00:43:18] Unknown:
early days Bitcoin, especially with lightning, when everyone was talking a lot about micropayments? That was, like, the thing. Mhmm. Obviously, Nostra's kinda doing that now. As an example, we have some graphics that me or mister Crown have made for Uncouple of Misfits. Someone comes here. You've got a massive touchscreen Yeah. Ordering system you've built there Yeah. On the CNC. And someone says, here's a massive countertop that I want for my desk. Can you CNC in the Ungovinal Misfits skull?
[00:43:46] Unknown:
They press it. They buy it. Yep. They scan their end pub, whatever. They buy it. They pay in Bitcoin. It starts printing. And then a percentage goes down to Ungarvo Misfits and to mister Crown because he made that Yeah. So he gets his And it and that's all visible up front when you buy it. Right? Yeah. So it's like a kind of top sheet of a of a contract. It's like when you press buy against your thing, you're buying a table or a cup of coffee. And then it'll have, like, you have on the splits and the prisms on the pods, you're not a 90%, three % thing. It'll have that on everything on the nostril, and that's recorded. So if I jot you on your table, you don't have to do nothing. It's just like report on Twitter. You just say, hey, that thing that we agreed never went down. Over time, you build up reputations, and reputations go to zero. And people would be able to see that on an ordering system as well. So, like, one change we're making it ungovernable.
[00:44:33] Unknown:
Going forward, any sat splits, anything that comes in from Ungovernable Misfits for anything, 10% goes to free samurai. Yeah. So that's coming in from next week. And so people would be able to go to order the table, and that might drive a decision where they go, do I want the ungovernable skull, or do I want this other one? Yeah. Well, hang on. I quite like that this goes to this and this one Yeah. So they are getting paid. And, oh, that's quite nice. Exactly. And then they hit that. You guys earn the money. We earn that's where I sit and I go, that's cool. That's all upfront. So there's no, like, charities,
[00:45:06] Unknown:
fiat charities are psychopaths. They're like, right. We we wanna give water to Africans Yeah. From London on 6 figures in a nice bit of town because we don't like going out on the dirty train. Yeah. Psychopaths. Yeah. But this is like, no. That's the front window, and all the pipe work going from that window to where I was getting paid. Not only can you see it, you can see I can't get into it. From the point you transact to the point that person's getting paid, it's over. And that's it. And that leads on to contract real smart contracts Yeah. That have a syntactic highlights of types of arrangements, like legal like seed legals, like boilerplate legal agreements. They can start to go on muster as well as recognized contracts.
So one might be for a hardware signing device that level of size. I pay you, you send me that type of transaction.
[00:45:55] Unknown:
That is then shown to be used by many people, and then you can show how many of those you've done. Someone orders something, one of the people who's milling here, someone's walk walking around, they go, oh, there's a job that needs to be done. Exactly. They can scan their M pub. That worker gets a percentage of Yes. You've earned has the business. Yeah. So the people who are busier and actually do stuff earn more. And do the work that pays the most Mhmm. On a list. There's another one. We're looking at using Nosta to rebuild PADI as a scuba dive syllabus.
[00:46:23] Unknown:
But what's interesting is, if you're an instructor and you leave and quit, you don't get a retirement. But if you're in the system for twenty years, you probably deserve one out of diving. If you're a Nostra instructor and you've got that m pub and you've issued open water certifications for twenty years to customers, you could have it that those m pubs, whenever they dive in the future, send a 3% scrape back to the guy that taught you how to dive forever. Forever. And if they go on to do instructor themselves, there's a little scrape like dust coming from the students you taught. And what you have is if you retire and dive in when you're 50, you keep your NSEC, and you've got a stream of SATs. Just make sure you secure that insect properly.
[00:46:59] Unknown:
Like, you secure your Bitcoin because, like, you secure your pension, which is what it's replacing. Possible to I don't understand, like, where you'd be scared of having Nosta backed up in the same thing you have your money back Of course. With no net. No. You do. Because where do you generate the insect from is one. So if you consume that is a bit online wallet. Yeah. Offer secure offline device, you can do that, and that's somehow like a child seed from your Bitcoin thing, which you've secured really well. Brilliant. That would be great. It's technically identical to that Yeah. Bitcoin and Nostra. That's step one. You have to do it right, not generate it in an app that's closed source. And two, is you have to make sure that you're not directly inputting VAT into
[00:47:37] Unknown:
all these different bits of software, which is what you're talking about with Amber No. The dive the divers are retiring without a pension. I know that. Right. So it doesn't matter if they lose their 12 words halfway through. It doesn't What? It's better to just take that risk because the what what's being held back for your perfect solution is just a good enough I'm not saying don't use it. I'm just saying definitely will. And it's you like, it's it's no different than if LinkedIn decided to scrub your profile. You lose all of your connections, all of your comments, all of the people, you're gone. So it's not we're not fiction to perfect. We're fiction to one inch above LinkedIn for free. What I'm saying is it's so close to being
[00:48:12] Unknown:
that perfect thing where you go I I'm very comfortable with my VidCon. I'm like, I'm comfortable. It's secure. I'm happy. Everything in my life basically runs off it. But with an NSEC,
[00:48:22] Unknown:
I'm not there yet because it's not quite there yet. So I'm not gonna lean in as hard as I did with Bitcoin. It's like fucking Well, it's not money. Let's go. It's like, you you got no reputation at the moment except goodwill and subjective stuff. Yeah. So it's it's anything better than than what we've got now. Anything is better than what we've got now. And And think of all people got rinsed on businesses and VC investments. All these people are getting fucked, and it's quiet, and it's not audited. So if there's a map that's got a bit of alright. You gotta go and do some anal things and roll the dice and stuff. But get on that map and start doing events with people that are real and trading with people that are real and using it because it's proven there's life over here. Because the rest of it's just an unauditable swamp. People pop up in the middle with the Bitcoin hat on, rake you for $50, and gone. They keep coming up on the stages, and they are just serial losers. I wanna be on a map where I could lose my 12 words, but that they are different to me. And I'll take the risk of the 12 words being wrong right now. I think that's what it'll be used for. It's a structured link LinkedIn, and it ships with money. And the badges is huge, that type of endorsement, and you can send a badge to somebody else. The yeah. The the possibilities literally end. Like, everybody that's in Bitcoin has had that moment where they take 12 words, and they put it into a different wallet, and they see their money appear, and they're like, holy shit. And it went and it went when it goes How did the money move? And just like, well, it didn't do it. Yeah. Nostra is exactly the same, but for the entire rest of your life. Yeah. Look at any app on your phone, Uber, eBay Yep. LinkedIn,
[00:49:48] Unknown:
yeah, Facebook, Instagram.
[00:49:50] Unknown:
Imagine just being able to put in one piece of information and have your whole social network. Imagine Imagine that. Surely that's just as, if not more worrying, if you're gonna lose all that. That's what I'm saying. No. You've already lost it. No. Yes. You you you didn't have a reputation before our system. I'd rather I'd rather lose all my money than lose everything else. You've got a copy of your reputation on Noster. You're still a person. You still got what you you lose your Bitcoin, it's gone. You don't you don't get a copy of the fiat money in your bank account. It's not the same thing at all. You can lose your reputation and say, I've lost my reputation and start again. If you do it the right way, like what I'm talking about, where it's not your you're not inputting your twelve and twenty four words into all these apps, like Facebook or whatever.
[00:50:31] Unknown:
You're doing it from a secure device like you're doing with Passport with your Bitcoin.
[00:50:35] Unknown:
You're doing the same thing. So it's never leaving the device. Yeah. At that point Yeah. I'll just do it when it's still a mess and just open a business faster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Well, you still do it. Yeah. You look at Bitcoin in 2014, like, people literally printing private keys at paper, and now look where we are. Exactly. So It's the net risk. It's not the risk you wanna stare at and ignore all the others around. It's the it's the total ownership of this a versus b. Yeah. And for me, I can make a lot of services nearly half as cheap by just establishing the basics. Just one link to me so far are cheap cheap customers, and one hop from them are about somewhere halfway between that. Yeah. One hop. That's it. And it's all there. It's all built. Where do you reckon it is then in terms of, like, a comparison to Bitcoin, Nostra, now, like, on a timescale?
They're not gonna unroll into the markets the same in the same way. Nostra come out behind Bitcoin, so it gets the benefit of that. It's, like, drafting in behind. Yeah. So all the basic mistakes like, it already had a technical decision to make about how to back up NSX. Great. 24 words. We already worked that one out. Bank. And that got us QR codes. Great. Okay. Oh, and we've got lightning now. So that got piped in. Done. And that all happened very quickly. It's like in Africa when they went from, like, no telephone wires and telegrams all the way quickly up to mobile phones. They never put copper cables in and no intermediary tech. But it's gonna be like that, like, Nostril will leapfrog stuff that took Bitcoin a long time to decide. Because at the moment, most people are using it just for social media, like Twitter clone. Yeah. Most people. People. Like, some of the stuff we're talking about here is a big step further than that. Where do you think we are on a timeline from, like, that being normal and that most people involved in Bitcoin or around it are, like, yeah, open doors with it. If I wanna come and get some work done, that February or '10. Two Two thousand '10. You reckon that early? Yeah. Okay. And then But I'm saying that time will move faster on Nostra. Quicker. Yeah. Because, like, 2010 Bitcoiners didn't have AI to rewrite code. Yeah. You're different. The river's different. So Nostra will come out faster, and it will fill out to the width of Bitcoin in terms of a project. And then it'll slightly overtake it, and then I think they'll just go shoulder to shoulder with each other. So five years? I think it'd be less than that. You reckon? Yeah. Because of AI? I think it's gonna be harder to quantify though, because with Bitcoin, the use case is money. That's it. Yeah. With Nostra, the use case
[00:52:52] Unknown:
is everything else. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like you might get it shooting ahead. Yeah. You might get it shooting ahead in specific use case like marketplaces,
[00:53:01] Unknown:
uncentral marketplaces, but then the LinkedIn type of thing might not happen or never happen for twenty years or something. It I I it's it's at the moment just as a thing, even though it's $20.10 Bitcoin in terms of it's how built out it is. It's my cheapest to deliver security system on a real business. It's my cheapest to deliver solution for for access with the other things I need, like point of payment, knowing who's on the site. And then we can append things like if staff are here and they've got a staff budget, you know that they can start your heart again. Or they know how to use a defibrillator. Or they know how to hit it when you're choking on a sausage roll. Very likely. Talk about risk.
Someone's been first aid trained to Heimlich maneuver you, which would be a horrendous job. I can derisk stuff that people just accept at risk inside of a normal Fiat world. Just totally serious. My end hub to ride that robot you're buying? Yes. Have you seen this robot you've bought? I have not. The can you play it? Well, look at a unitary, like a DJI, that kind of style company, but they did humanoids and dog robots instead. Just play it. Just Yeah. Just play it. Put it on the big screen. Just give just click that for me there, Sausage. That little thing looks like an old Nintendo. Getting this in as a worker. See that? That black box. Just there's no there's a button. It's fucking mental. Because it's not AI. This is actually real. And bear in mind when you're watching this, I do I have a they've got a forestry company on a on a quarry, and we've got a yeah. Just press that for a sec. Thank you. Fucking hell. You're worse than this. Thousand buttons in here? That moment just hit that one. There you go. Skate parks coming in there. Out of the CNC, you know, transitions and stuff. Mhmm. Turn that on pressure with your sausage. Reach the rep. Which button? Oh, it's on and never ends. Hold on. I think the key management stuff's important. I don't
[00:54:33] Unknown:
think it's been solved. What's gonna be happening with the passport prime is promising, but I don't think it's the answer. I think it needs to be some key rotation Yeah. Stuff or There there needs to be the ability to have we've mentioned loads of different use cases, like, got LinkedIn and eBay and all that sort of stuff. You need to have a segregated way to interact with that, that if it does become compromised somehow, that it doesn't risk the rest of the network. Yeah. And there are proposals for it. It's just quite a complex thing because you have all these relays
[00:55:01] Unknown:
and all these clients, and you need to have a solid name that
[00:55:05] Unknown:
does it all. It's the same old organized chaos of decentralization.
[00:55:09] Unknown:
Don't let it bully you. You're nasty pricks. I like you, mate. Oh, fuck. They're wrong about you. I think it's called Negan. No. It's not. Yeah. No. It's not. I like you as well when you're a little bit less cocky. Noisiest quiet man I have ever than that. Mind your fingers.
[00:55:26] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:55:28] Unknown:
Oh, just for you that. Oh, man. We're gonna record them. Talk about Nosta badges. If you can make mark, make that noise. This is not this is not AI. Okay? Verifiable. Real. It's not ordered. You won't reply to my emails? No. You emailed them last night. No. I've been emailing them loads. Oh, real. That's real. Now Pandit, like, the quarry, if someone's injured on a hill, it's not a joke. Like, that gets something to someone for me. You can ride it, Aaron. You can ride it. There's a I'll I'll get the do you know that little herd sheep?
Right? And it's our skate park instructor. Because why wouldn't it be like, you load that up with a backflip, why wouldn't you put that on a skate park? It's got a drone going behind it by the way. Obviously there's a whole thing about that. Sam's getting jealous. Yeah. He's getting funny. It's like fuck you robot dog. You haven't got big plums like me. Oh, I've done it after. We can carry what like, think of all the land in America that hasn't got access by road and so is worth 25% of what it is if it's on a road and you can get in and out on them. Oh. And you can send me. You can send you can send unmanned medical, food, water, battery packs, anything fuel, anything you want. We don't like my barbecue though. It will like it won't like your barbecue.
That'll be $20.30. Jesus. Ordered. Jesus. I'll show you what listen. I don't know what to think about that. One more. Oh, I don't know if I'm convinced it's real. Not me. Well, Aria wasn't convinced, but he's told me a hundred times that it's real. You can Surely, you could buy one online right now then. Yeah. I'm Yeah. Yeah. I'm they've got a DJI style website. Have you seen this? I have seen this. Yeah. So that dog is a hundred thousand dollars. That dog. And these Sorry if it does all that. These cost £400,000 and run on diesel. How much? $400.
It runs on diesel. And run on red diesel. Not avgas diesel. Now you put the dog and you put that together. You're in my notary for that. I am, man.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
Oh, fuck no. That that is actually real. There's a reason why we got a realtor though. Why? Well, I'm just wondering, does he look? You don't? Gets wet? Yeah. Are you No. That's amazing. That thing's that thing's got full of full of flotation. Oh, yeah. That's what it means. So it's okay over water. If you go over a car park from 50 foot, you break your legs. Yeah.
[00:57:45] Unknown:
No. These are Royal Marines. They don't care about that. I have leg broken. We don't care about that. How do you throw it when they break their legs? No. They just don't care. They might break their legs or not. Doesn't matter. It's they're attacking a boat. They're not they're not like, hang on guys. Has everyone got their helmet on?
[00:58:01] Unknown:
When are you getting one of these then? They're gonna get cheaper. It's $400. Yep.
[00:58:06] Unknown:
Runs on red diesel. Red or a one, our fuel. Your choice. I'd have I'd have diesel. What's this guy doing now? Spider man? He's just scaling on a scaling ladder. It's very hard that. Oh, yeah. You've seen it getting ridden around. So I'm gonna I'm gonna insert some images. You take those those tech now, and these are delivered. Yeah. Now if you've got a real business, if you've got something with already, like, eating horrendous risks and horrendous costs on repetitive stuff, and it's analog, nosto and all of this stuff, we can qualify people on these items. Can it do my editing for me, that robot? No, mate.
[00:58:40] Unknown:
I'm fucking repetitive.
[00:58:42] Unknown:
No. No. There's no chance You'd edit it whether it was free to edit or not. Edit, boy. Uh-huh. But, yeah, this stuff is this stuff's coming along. Mhmm. And it's very applicable. So that's a $100,000 quoted drone dog. And it's really cool. And they've probably already made more money on the views than they've made on the sales. For me, we've got a multidisciplinary group. We've got carpentry and joinery, forestry, and training, human training. And that thing can run security, triggers a motion thing, comes out and films whatever's whatever's being moved. It can have a drone mounted on the back of it or behind it. It can do jobs on a farm. Sheep herding, I think, is just obvious. Easy. Pulling up the hill. Anything. And then and then the safety stuff is, like, if you're in a remote forest, that thing just sits on standby, and on it is a big massive first aid pack and whatever else. And as soon as you hit a button button on your jacket, radio just gets it, and it just comes to your AirTag. Yeah. It's not been cool. And it's it's on all the time. It's not having a brew. It's not out sad. It's not drunk. It's just sat there. And the same thing. You know what I mean? Like, but that's the that's the hiring pool outside of Bitcoiners. Sat and drunk. The hiring pool is hard work. Yeah. So that we'll get the robot dog in it. It's that good. And then that same thing, it's just software updates it. It could do a skate park instructing me if we get a few skateboard ramps here, put that on it just like you've seen the demo. That's pretty matter that we're not far away from opening doors with an NSEC. Everything's in Bitcoin and lightning. Yeah. We have robots doing shit. Yeah. It's even better than that. Gangs. All the market are taking the tech and trying to turn it into walled garden and cash flows for VC, for multiples, for floats, And they've run off with the tech, but the the ground game is fast private Yeah. With the same use case almost at the same pace, often faster than like, look at the AI stuff, the the open source stuff's overtaking the closed.
In some respects. In every respect. No. Well, Deepsea came out and just ate everyone's dinner. And then llama, when that got leaked, the llama that got leaked improved faster than the Facebook in house llama. But the mid journey and the image generation is not quite there yet. Oh, god. You're hard to please you. Yeah. Well, I just fucking say it out is, mate. I use mid journey every day. Mid journey is the best thing. There's nothing that's close to it yet. What does that do? Mid journey? No. In the image image If you're attracting, use it for what? All my images. There you go. Certainly pointless job. What about if you had it's fucking pointless. It doesn't fucking matter, does it? How many how many cats you get? I don't give a fuck about that. GPT four Pro designs templates for project work. That was a day. You know, we'd get map word maps and stuff out of the AI. DeepSeek's free. Scan all them books in. Scan all of our operational documents, all our documentation, and let it'll tell us what is completely open?
I just think it's it's just been given back. Yeah. It's complicated because it's been given, but I think it's got this lossy compression effect on it. So the bit that you get is the render down version of the work somewhere else, and it's usable. Right. But it's not backwards it's not back it's not, reverse engineerable.
[01:01:40] Unknown:
But you could run that on your own tower Yes. And then you could train it specifically for your own shit within here Yeah. Run your robots and your Yeah. With it. It gets very Ironman very quickly. It just it's risk. It takes if it takes danger out of the program. If it takes danger out of a program,
[01:01:58] Unknown:
it's gonna pay for itself. Mhmm. Because if you put stuff that's a hundred grand against loss of life, you'll sell them. Well worth that. I'll pay $70 not to have a lab killed under a tree. Yeah. Yeah. That's $70 well spent. What's that at the moment? 1 and a half Bitcoin. Yeah. Tell me where to send it because that's fine. I'll get the dog. And that other thing which shows you, laser cube. Have you seen that? Oh, I got that on this one. Sorry. I'm sorry. How Jordan, you're gonna have to work on how to make video This one's this one's a big deal. For this bit. Somehow, mate. Sorry.
[01:02:27] Unknown:
Go work and show and tell us. Do you will? Wait. Where are you? You're working. Yeah. What's this one? Press someone through a cock, honey.
[01:02:34] Unknown:
Well, that's the first thing to do, isn't it? Oh, my god. It's already been done. There's another one. We'll feed you to this. Oh, mate. Pickup.
[01:02:41] Unknown:
Wait. What the fuck is this? Yeah. This is cool. Yeah. Technology.
[01:02:45] Unknown:
This is a big deal.
[01:02:49] Unknown:
Because you can do raids for it.
[01:02:52] Unknown:
You can do passport demos with it. I can do holographic skill demonstrations with no human involvement. Someone can download a physical training pack and this can deliver it in their living room so they can practice squats.
[01:03:08] Unknown:
You can throw the bat signal up.
[01:03:10] Unknown:
Just put q in between the three Straight off to the set straight off to the central bank. Straight off to the W F. 2 Hundred And 50 meter throw. That what? 250 meters. So that's from the back of the lakes all the way to this building. Look at this. That's insane.
[01:03:27] Unknown:
Does it draw a lot of power?
[01:03:29] Unknown:
Nope. It runs on battery. Mhmm. It's like a laptop sized unit, basically. I'll just get the one with the with the clever bits on it. And then this is the last video we're gonna Yeah. Sorry. I know. I know. Laser compilations number 15. Someone threw tits on Batman. Through the day. She threw the titties on Batman? Dude. For the day. Right. So, like, if you if you're a sniper position Yeah. And you're at, like, Bitcoin Amsterdam, and you've got that in a bag, you could draw tits on Peter McCormack. Well, he's in That's a real use while he's introducing the Oh. Prince of Suburbia again. Yeah. How much is one of these going for? They're just getting out of my hundred bucks up to 4, €2,000 for the full, like, and then it's got I thought you were But that comes with, like, the dry ice mister. Right. And it because you can put these in hologram. Okay. So if you've got two of them and you've got steam, you can create an Obi Wan Kenobi, your my only hope thing. But if you think for a I'm I'm hiring in a trainer, a professional trainer, and we can put the motions of a movement of anything we teach in skill into that format. And on the forestry, we can put that on on a tree, and it can measure level and then highlight on the tree the heavy red parts that are off the thing Mhmm. And the safe green bows that are in the middle. Someone drew tits on Batman, but I I saw a discounted death rate of arborists because that's on a battery pack. With a laptop, they can point it at a tree, and it will color code like conditional formatting on a Excel spreadsheet. But the TikTok ones are the best, because that that's, like, the that was the official video. That You showed me one you showed me one the other day that was more mad. Was it that one? Yeah. Let's try this one, and we'll stop. Yeah. Dog, I am, laser. Yeah. Okay. I should this this isn't a bad one, I think. No, Michelle. Well, we did so. Game order, there's a bit more Bitcoin stuff. So this is That's true.
AI hasn't messed around with the designs yet, but a deep seek would be able to design look at that. IKEA. So if we had a laser cube shining down on this table and you were sweeping through designs that you wanna carved on it on the table, you can play games. You know, that snake game. Imagine that on the side of a castle. I mean, mate Squeaky's got a drone that will pick that up in the air, so it'll shine down from the sky. It'll mark tracks, mark paths. Anyway, I know it's a Bitcoin show, but that's fucking epic. No. It's not. Way more interesting what's happening in Bitcoin. Is it well, I agree. Yeah. The implications, I mean. Oh, Apple. I was all about Apple. Thoughts from everyone? Because we saw it on the last show. It was always gonna happen, wasn't it? Well, that's For sale, one heavily soiled MacBook Air. Real crusty, but loved. It would happen,
[01:06:03] Unknown:
but now they've come out and it's Yeah. It is happening. Yeah. Loads of people will lie and say they don't use Mac and their Linux only, but let's be real, a lot of people use it. I use it. Oh, so you're only fussy about your Gnostic keys, not about, like, your daily driver. That's what I'm talking about now. Yeah. You're alright. Switching. Oh, you are gonna change? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people are in this position now. It's like, yeah, you should be using a Linux machine Lara. Are you showing those? But it's like, these are just so good Mhmm. Or were so good Yeah. The people use them. But now it's like, now coming across a line now, you've actually gone too far. Now it's nah. Fuck off. The UK broadly is off way off the map. They're not keeping track of affairs. The US has rotated its entire structure,
[01:06:46] Unknown:
and Keir Starmer and the socialists are in. Yeah. So that for as long as that is, that'll be the Joe that'll be our Joe Biden era, when all this bullshit, like Yeah. All this will just play out. And it'll be four years of discontented stagflation. Mhmm. And it will get swept in, and it'll get swept back out again. Trump will probably just come through and say, right, you're gonna, give our Apple based our US based Apple company trouble. Just double the tariffs again, ain't it? Like, it can't it can't like, UK can't even enforce its own laws exclusively. Because so if the if The US is driving towards smaller government and more freedom, at least on the tin, I would expect the pendulum to swing back on this quick. I think that the risk here is, other than the obvious risk to
[01:07:26] Unknown:
UK based Apple users, is that all the countries are gonna see this and see that Apple is actually susceptible to to good point, you know, persuasion, shall we say. Particularly in in Europe, I think you're right about The US. It's Yeah. There's a bit of paradigm shift there. But Well, what's Europe? Yeah. The the risk here is that all the European countries will see this and think, I wouldn't mind a bit of that. And also, it's not just the risk of Apple, is it? Like, Apple's not the one under attack here. Encryption is the one that's under attack. So, you know, it's Apple today. Mhmm. Tomorrow, it might be Proton. Then it's Tutanota.
That's the worrying part for me, is that it's easy for me to sit here feeling smug because I barely use Apple and, you know, I've got graphene, proton drive and stuff, but Apple's it was the head that got shot first because it's the biggest head. Yeah. So I I don't think it is gonna end here, unfortunately. I don't worry about it though. I won't say I was worried about it like open source software exists for a reason like that you know for those that have a will up there is a way. Yeah. But the risk is to gen pop that just go on with and use default stuff is that all of their data is just completely And to the degree that's true, it makes the people who aren't using that stand out more.
[01:08:38] Unknown:
Who are you? Who who aren't so if you're if you're the privacy tech guy and you've got all these different softwares and phones, and then 90% of the people are just on the stupid stuff, pure KYC tracking you all the time, you will stand out. Just as not having that right address, IP address, or whatever it is, you'll stand out more and more. I'll stand in both ponds. Like, I'll keep using MacBooks for the boring business. And dare someone to backdoor my MacBooks to see how much firewood we've sold. Just send them you know what I mean? Like, there's a thing in this with, like, okay. Well, if if that's the fucking game, and this is the map we're on You can see there is. Then they are, look, I can bore you to death with what I've got, boys. Come in and and and, like, look through the Mac. I dare you to break my Mac to look at the shit on my MacBook. Yeah. Like, just do it. And thank you for wasting four up to 10 salaries that cannot be bought back Mhmm. But looking up my dress because there's nothing to look at. Yeah. So that everything's got a sort
[01:09:31] Unknown:
of pendulum out, pendulum back kind of feel to it. Reuse this for the boring stuff and then Yeah. Or anything. You you know, you've gotta go to a Linux system, but then it's like, as I was saying to you, Kofi, it was like, what do I use that's gonna work? And and even you as a technical person, like, well, you sort of get something to work for, you know, three months, and then suddenly your driver will go and you won't be able to use your Oh, the Linux desktops.
[01:09:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And the other one is look at it from the side of the people who've just enforced the law. So we're all gutted that MacBook's just now a bit dodgy. But from their side, they're like, hang on. They're in some meeting, some espionage meeting. Like, right. What did we get then? It's like, well, all the all the serious, criminals and terrorists have just moved to Linux. Yeah. But what have we got? Well, we've got ALF's, Google Drive. Right? So they're like, hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. So we're in the sausage making business. We make intelligence. That decision that has to be enforced now, and has to be staffed, and has to be kept up to date, and has to be looked to be seen to be enforced, now gets us 90% more sawdust.
And where's the meat? They're on graphene or they're on whatever the nth next. So all the crims that are in sent, they cannot use one or the other. Yeah. They didn't even get them anyway. No. Exactly. So think from the law side, whatever that cost in goodwill, in the way they look, bullies, tyrannical, they don't even get anything for it, to my mind. They've they've already given away the enforceability of it because the techs there's 10 other things promised in simplex. And if you're serious, you're doing serious things. You don't think you're back on a MacBook. No. So that's it, isn't it? Just be boring on a MacBook. Is it about law enforcement? Or is it about mass surveillance? And the sort of data that they get is, like, you already know. Just like creepy side of it is, like, there's people using iPhone and MacBook,
[01:11:12] Unknown:
but pictures of their kids, got their private lives, and then suddenly, on the other side of that is some creepy, probably pedo known the British government Yeah. Cults Yeah. Collecting all of that data in their life. Well, maybe a bit. Right? Get in the The pedo or not pedo, but, like, psych psychotic.
[01:11:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're a you're a chicken in the chicken farm that is now the focus of attention, like that machine that comes out of the matrix and goggles your eye like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you get that feeling. And then, yeah, it's scary because The UK, what was that signal department that got used to shill COVID narratives? It was like a it was like a hearts and minds. The ones that take over the radio in bloody communist they they come in, and they've got an AI. They borrow DeepSeek, and they had a load of servers left over from some god awful bloody confiscation. And they just start running the compressed Google drives of The UK. They get a political narrative. You know that one in V for Vendetta when they go, we've been listening. And then they they go along in the cars with the speakers, and then they go and report the the mood and feel of the country back to that prime minister. You get that kind of fine control. It's creepy. Mhmm. But it's all good. Fucking creepy. It's a forcing function to make like, I've talked about, I'm gonna get off away from Apple. I've been talking about it for a couple of years. I do for some stuff. I run any Bitcoin stuff as Linux already. But now it's like that forces me to I'm done. Yeah. So maybe that's a bit of a good thing. People are still in awakening. You can you can current using the muck and just not use iCloud. Not use iCloud. I'm not gonna fuck my phone off and go to Graphene. Is it just on iCloud? Yeah. It's iCloud. Oh, which one is it? But there is a They don't use iCloud. Build it up with There are broader issues with what Apple have. They have a proprietary stuff of software that you don't really know what's going on under the hood. So if they're like, okay, well, we're not gonna encrypt this data anymore. What else is going on? Not necessarily there is anything else going on. It's just I wouldn't if there was a perfectly private usable app, I wouldn't use it for all my stuff. I'd put the private stuff on the private app, and I'd put the I'd put the boring stuff on the boring app, and let them go through it, and comb through it. That's more I think that's more balanced. And it comes back to trade offs again. If you're a real person in the real world, and you want to actually run a business Yeah. Do you wanna spend 3 days trying to get your desktop to work? Well, StartNine does even let's let's start Nine as project management software. I'm sure it will soon. But what I mean is, like, you can't use this stuff enterprise level, I don't think, for anything. But Noster and all the I've got a tour in it. Yeah. Well, that's it. It's like it's you know yeah. But, you know, for running, like, no one's I think previously, it's got a hygiene kind of like, it's there's a there's an end perfect that no one will ever get to. And you've got, like, people who are insane and just keep washing their hands and keep using hand sanitizer. And you've got people that don't do anything of filth, and they've got not any privacy good practice at all. I think the balanced middle is do the basics well, except that you're never gonna be a perfectly anonymous person. And then I think Nostra offers the other side of this Apple stuff, which is, well, if you're gonna get looked at under a microscope, at least have your activity logged in a format or an incentive structure you can use for value, and then we'll see. But this is a good opportunity to start How did this happen when you're up to the top? Or is it just been from a failure of all the other attempts?
[01:14:16] Unknown:
Ease of use? I think, yeah, open source for a start, which makes people wanna use it. They were the first to do no software on proper hardware. Okay. That actually worked reliably. Everybody else was like off the Raspberry Pi era. Everybody else was pushing it to be on a Raspberry Pi, which was great if you had a very simple use case for it. Yeah. And then as soon as you start doing password managers, and the files, and lightning, and Raspberry Pi just weren't cut out for it. So start now with the kind of shakers and movers that said, you know what? This is stupid. Yeah. Let's do it on a proper computer that's only a hundred dollars more than a Raspberry Pi anyway. And they've hung tough, haven't they? Because that's a good idea back then, and they're still around now when it's really pertinent. Their support was so good as ours. Is it? Yeah. Like Yeah. Yeah. The other ones fail at support. The other node sellers fail at support. Yeah. Nice user interface.
[01:15:04] Unknown:
Yeah. And open source, so people wanna they weren't open source. Jordan and everyone wouldn't have done what they've done with Dojo because what's the fucking point? Yeah. So it draws more talent across to it. Yeah. Anything else we wanna cover? Or are we sort of What's the prime updates?
[01:15:23] Unknown:
Prime updates, still looking good for early April shipping. The boys here have had a a publicity sneak peek. Yeah. Oh, he let us look at the heart there today, which is wish you met with some smiles and some boos and ahs, which is nice to see. But, yeah, all looking good to be, early April to start shipping for early access customers. Pretty much sold out early access. So if you are gonna order one and you want one of the first packs, then you better be quick. But, otherwise, yeah, we're just cranking hard to get the software finished and tested and ready to get it into the hands. The device is excellent. Mhmm. It's excellent.
[01:15:57] Unknown:
It's excellent. It's the perfect size. It's the perfect dimensions. Whoever did you whoever heads up your design in picking it up like an iPhone feel, get get a Who's
[01:16:08] Unknown:
the stock? It's it's Zach. It's Andy who's our head head of design. Andy.
[01:16:14] Unknown:
Pay rise, mate.
[01:16:16] Unknown:
Pay rise time for Andy. It's funny. Working at foundation is the best job I've ever had, and I only normally have one piece of frustration, and that's the design takes longer than I. I'm impatient. I want shit to come out as soon as possible. Yeah. And the likes of Zach and Andy, agonize over the small bits, which I get frustrated at day to day because I think, oh, you know, we're taking too long. But when you have days like today where I put it in your hand, and you're like, oh, it's rock fucking hell. It all comes together. Like, you you're just not getting that with a ledger or a company. No. You're not. You you pick it up and you you're already negotiating with it in your head. Yeah. I think with them. You're like, right. How are we gonna fucking get to the end of what we're doing now? With that thing, you're like, there we go. So it's moments like that where I take a step back and I'm like, you know what? All of the the frustrations are warranted and the issue should be put for time and the extra design cycles
[01:17:00] Unknown:
are actually worth it when you see it in people's hands and they're like, actually, yeah, this this feels nice. It looks better than it is on it is better than it looks on the website. It's like the opposite of the big Mac on the McDonald's screen. It's the opposite effect. Right? Yeah. You know, you get the one that's just been Calculate. Been jumped around and you just threw it in the box, like, and then the one on the screen is just like, oh, I'd have one of them all that. I wonder if we It's the opposite of that. Put that into our marketing field. It's the opposite Big Mac effect. Yeah. I don't know what there must be a name for it. Definitely makes for that. Yeah. But it is that. And and like everything, the attention to details is metal on you see, when you pick it up, it's cold and heavy in your hand like a Rolex. And I didn't like on the on the passport, you know, the keyboard rattles. Yeah. Didn't like that. Okay. And this one, it's just like a Oh, it's a touchscreen. Yeah. It feels like a big watch. Mhmm. It's got that heft, and then it's got two ridges along the side of it. So when you gripped it, it's ergonomic. I think it's the it's fucking brilliant. Yeah. It is honestly good. Honestly. And the software is even more exciting because of what it opens up on Nostra and much else. The possibilities are quite literally endless. It's not just like a rejigged passport with with all the bits you didn't like about that. It's a new thing with a new feature suite that open keeps everything from the previous one and opens up another bit. It's amazing. That's for hardware.
[01:18:12] Unknown:
What I think is the same with Start9 is open source, open platform Yeah. Well built, well designed, massively jump ahead of fucking everything else,
[01:18:22] Unknown:
and they're going, do you wanna go to that? Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Bring it here. Do it. Well, this is our first chance now. If I if I can make if I have business logic thing here, we need to make something that we use Nosta for here. If that can contain if that can be issued out as a plug in or whatever the I don't know what it would look like, but if we could get that, that it could be on the An app. Prime as an app that we use, and then it's just a matter of switching out those m pubs for them ones or whatever it works out at, that would be so good. Yeah. The the the two main things I'm most excited about is the foundation is no longer the bottleneck for what can be on that device. The only bottleneck now is the imagination of the entire world. Yeah. That's it. Like, you can put whatever you want. And the second piece is, if somebody comes up with a use case that I think is ridiculously stupid Can do it. We can't stop them doing it. Yeah. We're gonna do it anyway. And that's the proof you're not in a walled garden because if you said, oh, that's not for our narrative spike. Yeah. Everyone else goes, alright. Okay. So you can What's probably gonna be totally different to your Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah. Max is just gonna have McDonald's on home.
When when McDonald's up? Go on. It'll lend sovereign burgers. But no, it'll do it. I I I'm interested in that as well. Sovereign burgers? Are there any other kind? I don't know at that moment. That's true. No. I'm interested to see what people non Bitcoiners. Yeah. That's the interesting thing is how do you bring non Bitcoin is into Bitcoin? We've already tried the frontal attacks. It doesn't work. Well, the audio is already opening up because cake are coming in and Cake did the first one. Yeah. So suddenly you've got 500,000
[01:19:52] Unknown:
plus users on k. Exactly. Fucking big user base suddenly going, oh, oh, now we're working with you guys. All the, like, maxi people are gonna get upset by that, but actually, no. Because now they're coming into the Bitcoin world. A lot of these people aren't involved in Bitcoin really. Well, peep I don't think I don't think Nosta will adopt person to person. They'll adopt database to database.
[01:20:14] Unknown:
So when PADI is rebuilt in Nosta, the divers that use it, you win that entire addressable market. And they go on to Nosta, and then that's a double word score because they've now got Bitcoin wallets with any extra effort. So it like, the the adoption into business it will go database to database. That means the PADI database, the SSI is their competitor, and then all the other adventure training, British kayaking, the British freaking fishing association. They're all siloed. They're all separate, and they can all go onto Noster. By extension, you can sign who you are and what you've got and what you own on those. That's why I think the wallet side of it is, least priority. I mean Yeah. Well, that's that makes sense because we're both because they're all both shitless with Bitcoin. So that all stayed the same and it's stable. It's not changed to the worse. It's just not got better at the same rate or our assessment of it. And Nasdaq's keeping everybody excited. Well Apart from Max. Apart from Max yeah but Max is Max's we'll get you on there Max is affected you have to have
[01:21:11] Unknown:
a bald grumpy cunt
[01:21:13] Unknown:
that's me there keep it level you just fixate it on an irrelevant risk It's not irrelevant. It isn't. You are wrong. No. It's not irrelevant. I'll just so just so I'll just fuck it up myself again, and then you'll just say, oh, I I didn't mean like that. Yeah. So I'll just run it in the business. It is relevant. But I I believe there are people smart to fix it, and then it will get there. And at that point, I'll lean in much harder than I am now. But yeah. It's very, very, very cliche, but also very true, and we are just early. Yeah. So everyone gets lost through the price they deserve, don't they, q and a? That's what you said, wasn't it? No. I think that's true. I'll I'll I'll move a bit quicker and take the extra risk. That's what the early Bitcoiners did. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. It was shit. It wasn't it was worth $2 because it was worth 2 fucking dollars. That's why it was $2. Yeah. It wasn't a lottery ticket back then. It was a proper weird, like, what is even this thing? And I think Nosta's doing well just to not be that at the moment. But we're you we're gonna use it when? Now. So we're doing that on physical Internet of Things shit. Turn your washing machine on all that shit. What are you doing? Alexa dot light bulbs and all that shit. We're gonna do it with some real stuff. You can get in here with an insect? Get in here on an insect now. There you go. Or not get in here. Or not get in. On an insect. Yeah. Yeah. Max. How's that insect? Don't come up if you're not a friend of the show. It's a long way to drive home. And we're not gonna do like online test your end pubs. It'll just be The robot dog in there. You tell us what you think. There'll be a few off the mountain. All I'm saying is we're mounting an oak barrel full of water above the door, so it's either it's either an open door or a soggy tripo. Getting wet. Yeah. So fucking hell, if you've got any dodgy sponsors, for instance, bring the fucking Gore Tex hat, fuckers.
[01:22:50] Unknown:
I think we'll end it there. I think we're good. Wrong sponsors, you're getting dunked.
[01:22:55] Unknown:
That's right. And pubs. Right reputation,
[01:22:58] Unknown:
you're getting in and you're getting looked after. That's right. Okay. We'll end it there. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope it gives a little bit of insight into what's happening at Ben Gunn's place. I hope the audio quality wasn't too terrible, and us playing all the videos throughout wasn't too annoying. But it was more of a meet up than anything and just a little, chance for you to look through the keyhole like a perv. On the next Bitcoin brief, we will properly be inserting a little ten minute clip from a dev or someone who's building something interesting. We're getting closer. We didn't quite manage it on this one. But as I said in the intro, you can go back and have a listen. This is actually gonna be sent out as its own pod. Just a little ten minute recording that I did with Jordan to discuss the new Dojo being available on start line. If you haven't checked it out already, go and have a look. If you have any problems, reach out to Jordan. Let's get these things running and linked to Ashigaru.
Catch you on the next one, and free samurai.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to the Bitcoin Brief. This one is very different. I met with Bitcoin q and a, dice rolls, black coffee, and Ben Gunn at Ben Gunn's site. We went and had a look round, looked at the lakes, looked at the new CNC machine, looked at everything that was being developed there. It was really good to catch up with everyone. We sat around a table with one mic. The audio quality is not the best. I've run it through a load of special AI stuff, done lots of trickery to try and get rid of the background noise from the docks and machinery and everything else that was going on. The audio is far from perfect, but it was amazing catching up with everyone. I just wish I could paint the scene so that people could see what we saw. Dice rolls out on the barbecue that wasn't working with a blowtorch and a massive gas tank cooking us chicken and sausages.
The dogs flying around, machinery everywhere, quad bikes and motocross bikes, and it was absolute carnage as is usual with anything that Ben Gunn touches. We also didn't really cover the new dojo on start nine. I recorded a separate episode with Jordan on this. I was going to play it for everyone and then talk about it. It didn't happen. You can't get a word in edgeways with Ben Ben Gunn, let me tell you. Twenty four hours over there ages you a couple of years. It's hard work, but it's worth it. So the part where I say inserting audio now is not actually gonna be inserted. That's gonna go on a separate episode. So have a listen to that. Let us know if you have any questions. I'm very excited about that update.
And before I wrap it on for the rest of the day, I just wanna say a big thank you to everyone involved in this episode. Big thank you to Dice Rolls for putting on such a spread, sausages and chicken and burgers and halloumi and all sorts of things. It was, pretty awesome. So thank you for doing that, mate. Thank you also to everyone who has been boosting the show, sharing it with friends and family, making clips, retweeting, and everything else that you're doing. We really do appreciate it. I'd also like to take a moment to thank our sponsors. They really help us put this content out, keep it consistent, keep the quality high, allow us to do these type of meet ups, as well as making incredible products. I'd like to start with foundation.
Passport Prime. It was the first time getting one of these in my hands. The feel, the weight, the quality of this thing is incredible. So I really can't wait to get my own and start playing with it. I think it's gonna be April that these things are gonna start shipping. If you haven't already ordered one or you haven't checked them out, you can go back and listen to the full episode I did with Zach and q for the announcement of it where we go into a lot more detail. Or you can go to foundation.xyz, and you can use the code Ungovernable for a discount. I don't actually think that is gonna be working for the Passport Prime yet. Maybe Q can tell me if that's true or not. I think it's gonna be just be for the passport or anything else on the website. But test it. Go and check it out. At very least, if you're ordering a passport, you will definitely get a discount, and it helps support the show. A big thank you also goes out to Cake Wallet. Cake Wallet have been supporting the show for around six months now.
Again, we talked about them in this episode because they're gonna be the first app going on to the new Passport Prime. I'm very excited about this. It really is an important step. And having Q on one team and Seth on the other team. They're two people that I have incredible amount of respect for and work extremely hard to help people be secure and private. With K wallet you can easily connect to your own Bitcoin or Monero nodes, You can swap between them. You can spend, buy gift cards, and much, much more. If you're actually using Bitcoin and Monero, this really is an incredible tool. They have over half a million users already. And if you're not one already, check them out at cakewallet.com, and enjoy the show.
Well, we're recording whenever anyone wants to jump in. Is it, yep. Does it work? Yep. You just tested it. It's all good. Has everyone got a chair?
[00:05:30] Unknown:
That is coffee. Have we got coffee as a bit? Yeah. I think there's still a bit in the jug, is there? No. I just took the last bit.
[00:05:39] Unknown:
Have you seen the Terry tape version of this? You kill the joke, you make some mo. Good coffee, that. Skills? Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. That's all you need. Like, all this stuff. Fancy shit. Fancy shit. What did you do with? Just a trip thing. Yeah. Match storm stamp.
[00:05:54] Unknown:
What are you doing?
[00:05:56] Unknown:
Hey, Laura. Hey, Colin.
[00:06:01] Unknown:
Laura loves it. Keep bringing that wig that stuff. I'm in this humpy birthday. You killed it, Joe. You made some mom. You know that, baby.
[00:06:12] Unknown:
They're loaded in their NFL commercials. They're excellent. He does one where he farts and a lift as well as crocodile. Is there actually no coffee? There's no coffee. You never liked what it was. Fucking prick. Well, haven't you got herpes? Have you got herpes? Yeah. That's the that's all you that's what you have. See all that was looking like. Who? Oh. Well You can do all the food. We can eat that. We're brothers now. Oh, I'm gonna do it. Cheers. Not even a lot of it. We got about five new latent diseases for about three sips of coffee. Gonna bring the foods. Now is that what I'm gonna talk? Yeah. We got food at lunch, innit? We can keep it warm. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it warm in my crew. I can say who's here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
So dice rolls, Ben Gunn, got black coffee, and q and a. The absolute treat to it and some dogs knocking around. Dog Samson?
[00:06:54] Unknown:
Filthy dogs. What's your dog's name? The one that's standing on all my artwork? How oh, yeah. I'm Jopson dog. Never dogs. You would you're doing a bitch. Whatever you were, you were just standing on limited edition copies of Citadogs 21. Go over there. I do love you, though.
[00:07:07] Unknown:
Come here. It's because mine's in the way. Bit of a different situation. Coming right down. Coming right down. Yeah. No plans have we? We've got no talking points. Nope. No news. No software updates. You could say we're very unprepared. Could we just finish off? Yeah. So that Now let's wrap it up. See you next week. But I did wanna talk about the dojo updates because that's a big one. Are those guys,
[00:07:31] Unknown:
had any sunlight shone on them from Trump yet? Who? The samurai guys. No mention. So they just got they just got, like, memory hold.
[00:07:40] Unknown:
It seems that way. Yeah. Got Ross for now. Yeah. We got Ross, but they that we're still working on them. I think there's some talk, or, like, some people are trying to push to see if Ross might do a little tweet because they did a lot when Ross was inside.
[00:07:52] Unknown:
Yep. They donate to the cause. And Ross was also vouching for, Roger Ver, wasn't he, last week? Oh, yeah.
[00:07:59] Unknown:
So everybody's jumped on the bandwagon to say, look, you know, if you're vouching for for Roger, you need to be kind of pushing for samurai as well because they they were I don't understand how you can vouch for Roger Ver or not vouch for him. Like, is it something like a topic related issue? Like a principle based thing where Roger's a dick, but not the reason he's supportive of it. To be play devil's advocate for a guy who's just out of prison. No. I reckon it's more he's probably been told. By who? People who let him out, maybe? No. I reckon. But for the samurai guys, like, the bigger news, nearly the bigger news than being arrested, that's the biggest news. But the heads of every federal department of The US has just cleaned out more than they have ever cleaned anything out. Kash Patel and whoever else, Tulsi Gabbard, all changed at that. And I think they've sacked all the SaruSai local DA's as well. So the entire bones and sinews of the legal system have kind of just been switcherooed.
[00:08:49] Unknown:
I don't know what the implications of that are, but Yeah. I don't know. Huge change in the wind. But it would be nice to see him say something because it's like I think even they made a painting for him and Yeah. Like a yeah. Oh, yeah. They did a free Ross painting him and, like, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, talk about value for value. Samurai did what they could to try and help him. Maybe nice to see that return. I mean, I don't think Roger Ver should be in prison. No one fucking should for that sort of stuff, but I think samurai, is a much more important cause than old Roger.
[00:09:18] Unknown:
I didn't even know he's still alive. I would I wouldn't be if I was offside at 300,000 bit actual Bitcoins. Is that what he is? Well, that's how much he sold in the forecourt. Jesus Christ. That's how much he had, I think. He's like, well, hold my beer. So I I I couldn't live under a canopy that I'd be I'd be in the woods for good reasons. I'm amazed he's still upright. And he was on, what was the what was the big show he was on the other day? Yes. I know the one. It was on Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson. Yeah. What you're doing? Yeah. And he didn't mention samurai either. And they knew each other. Why did Roger Verne mention Sam? Well, because they knew each other. They worked together. Doesn't matter. Like, this, like The fact And and they're in the same they're in the same
[00:09:58] Unknown:
sort of boat ish,
[00:10:00] Unknown:
where it's like, come on. But it's broader than Bitcoin. The political prosecutions are broader than Bitcoin. And the tie went that went out for Trump as he was being prosecuted was under the same shit. Ross was in prison forever if the other one had got in. Oh, yeah. The end of. Like, end of. And then probably not a proper election after that, in my opinion. Yeah. So that whole country's just changed so much that calling it the same name is ridiculous, I think, at this point. It's a complete operating system level whip out. They can only be to Samurais benefit. That's what I'm thinking. It's like They can't legitimize Bitcoin in the law and then retrospectively
[00:10:35] Unknown:
prosecute the use of Bitcoin. But how do you get that out there? Like, how do you get Tucker Carlson, all these bigger people talking about yeah. Because it's like, you know, Roger's getting a load of limelight, and everyone's fucking quiet out there with the samurai stuff. I don't hear it and talks about hardly ever other than in, like, the tiny little circles that we run-in. It's like, it's not on any of them. And for that matter, Julian Assange and Stellar Assange, you know, Absolutely every reason to spend the time however they bloody want, but no comment. And probably, like, good idea, but we don't understand what they've been told and I get really get that one more. Like, Julian Assange, I'm like, mate, just fucking go and enjoy the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Like %.
[00:11:15] Unknown:
Health, like Just go and do it. See your family. Touch grass. I mean, fucking hell. You know what I mean? Imagine.
[00:11:20] Unknown:
Yeah. So fine. But, like But on the positive side, we've got Dojo going on to star nine. So coffee, you've been pretty close to this one. Yeah. I'm gonna fill in some details. I'm gonna play I'm gonna insert a clip from me talking to Jordan, like,
[00:11:37] Unknown:
now so people get some of the stuff. But Yeah. We're great. You can That's an interesting noise. Oh, Max. That's in here as well. Wow. We just saw a little insight into Max's workflow. Yeah. Get terrified.
[00:11:47] Unknown:
You got any other noise? I just in real time. I got a few up my sleeve. Crikey noise. I'll give all my noises away at once. Bloody hell, mate. A bit of foreplay, mate. And what's been going on with it? I think Jordan's been leading it mostly, hasn't he? Yeah. He's been doing a lot of the coordination of what what's been going on. Herding cats. Yeah. Yeah. Difficult cats to herd. Yeah. But what have we got now? It was getting more difficult to run dojo, I guess. So with the release of Ashigaru, there was a possibility, you know, you get Ashigaru and use a dojobay.p w, and choose someone else's dojo. So we've got Ashigaru through. But if you wanted to run your own, the choices were if you had some running dojo hardware, use that or spin up your own dojo, which is kind of tricky. It's not not for everyone, is it? Have you done it queue? Vanilla dojo? Yeah. Once. And then when it came to upgrade,
[00:12:35] Unknown:
I forgot how to do it and then gave up. Yeah. So
[00:12:38] Unknown:
I think you had similar experiences, man. Yeah. Vanilla Dojo.
[00:12:42] Unknown:
Vanilla Dojo, I had lots of problems with. Ronan Dojo, loved the team, but I had constant problems with. He's also got Umbra as well. That was shit. I've not tried it for a That was shit. I did try it and it was shit. So what's the best now just to save everyone a lot of times? This is This fucking start nine. Is this where we are? It's like We're one. We're totally one. We're setting the scene. So start Okay. Alright. Okay.
[00:13:03] Unknown:
Go on, Ben. Come on. Get on when you leave. What we're what yeah. What we're doing, Ben? Yeah. What's happening, Ben? We're just you're just talking about all the losers in order, and everyone's just waiting for which one won. Right. Go on. So what's the win? I don't know. I'm waiting. Start now. Start nine. Yeah. Here you go. Yeah. Is that what I'm here? Yeah. So we're gonna have Fulcrum,
[00:13:22] Unknown:
and Fulcrum's the, Electrum RS compatible indexer for Bitcoin. So how's it going to show? There's a start there's a start nine app. And and Dojo is a start nine app. And I don't know if whether Jordan has spoken about this bit, but it looks as though start nine are going to take those apps on as core apps Start9. Yeah. Which could be mega. So it won't be in the community section. It will be actually within their Yeah. Like, sort of blessed by someone. Marketplace. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Which means that can have the ability to run a pretty solid Bojo on a pretty solid bit of hardware. Yeah. With Ashigaru, which is a solid wallet. Yeah. So it just joins up all the things that have been missing for a while now. Mhmm. It doesn't complete the ecosystem.
But, yeah, that's where we are. It's looking it's really, really good. Jordan's done brilliant work with it. Yeah. And you did a lot of testing and bits and pieces for Yeah. Yeah. I was involved with the there's a foundation involved, like the way you used to work with Sparrow
[00:14:19] Unknown:
on Whirlpool transactions. You had a UX on Passport for that. So we had the ability to
[00:14:25] Unknown:
set, like, a specific post mix. It can be And those from the have Yeah. Straight to cold. That's kind of independent of all of this stuff, unfortunately, because to my knowledge, there's no, end to end. There's no way to connect in. No. So the Dojo software is unique to to the samurai slash Ashigaru ecosystem. It's like the back end for that style of wallet. So for, like, Envoy that, obviously, we produce,
[00:14:48] Unknown:
that is just a typical Electrum server back end, which would talk to Fulcrum, which is now gonna be on start nine, which I didn't know. So you could point it to that, but not to the Dojo software, which is, again, just for for Ashigaru or Samura. Well, it's just a matter of time, ain't it? Fucking big steps forward. Like, if you think where we were a year ago to where we are now, was it a year? How long has it been since Samura arrests? When was that? That was due was it I think it was June. I think it was June. It was June. You know, that then suddenly everything looked fucking dark for a while there. Since then, Ashigaru, then we had the Dojo Bay. Now we've got it coming on to start nine.
[00:15:26] Unknown:
Obviously, still not Whirlpool, but I'm sure And they're just the they're just the directional replacements. The one for one replacements. Oh, a bit better. Well, of course, better. But, like, the the next of that but the next one is lightning still slight partly secret. And the progress on the federation stuff, I know it's not popular with everybody, but it does offer privacy, you see. If it's big enough, if it's a big enough federation, it is like a casino with open float chips. You do have perfect privacy in it, but it just has to be big enough to have the traffic to anonymize you. You can't mean you couldn't open a federation of mixed coin. I know I don't like them. I know Q doesn't like them. Mhmm. Dice? No. I don't care about that. Like, why not? Trust. Okay. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Unknown:
I saw a tweet from Evan from Zeus yesterday, you know, on Nostra. He did great. That I perfectly summed this up. Go on. And it said, I'm gonna butcher this now, Evan. So if you're listening to this, I apologize for butchering it. But, it's something like, trusted solutions have the perfect UX until they have the worst UX,
[00:16:30] Unknown:
I. E. It's super easy to use it until you get rug pulled. Yeah. Yeah. But I I think on the UX stuff, the harder it is to use, the more chance you rug yourself, or don't. There's no I don't think there's any making something harder for someone to use and then just ask them to learn more is I think that's a bit of an abdication of the problem. The thing about the federations is if you assume everybody can learn at the pace you have, then we should all be on what we've been using now, but there will be people that need social recovery. That in terms of trust, we've already broke those rules because I can uncle Jim on my passport, Mark's, or my dad's. So we're trusting each other already in that sense. This is just a variation of that. It's just another Yeah. It was massively different to Whirlpool, though, mate. Like, it In what sense? Because it's perfectly private. So it's actually arguably better. I don't know that it is perfectly private. I think it depends. Well, chomium meat I'm not gonna make the argument. We go all can look, but you yeah. They are. Chomium mince are pepper. Peppermint. You can also get rugged.
[00:17:24] Unknown:
I'm not saying it's like a terrible idea, but what I'm saying is for a lot of people, yeah, the UX on, like, samurai and dojo was pretty horrific five years ago. It was a pain in the ass for nontechnical people. But where we are now, if slash when Whirlpool comes back, you can run a start line, piss easy, or just buy one off the fucking shelf. Mhmm. Plug it in. Done. Press one click to install Dojo. Mhmm. Install Ashigaru.
[00:17:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. But Scapegoat. It's it's all that. Right? And that's fine. I get it. But 90% of people who don't use Bitcoin are never ever ever gonna get it ever. I agree with that. They can't they can't even get checks removed from The UK, paper checks, to buy it, and too many grannies use them. That's the real bar. I get that. And you're paying fees. And you've got UTXO management problems because you you remember that time you forgot what your your label ends? Yeah. Right. Very much. Right. So it's not functionally private for the average user. I just don't think that you can't really compare the two. Yeah. It's it's apples and oranges, isn't it? I'd rather put somebody out of an exchange, take off the exchange, and have them land in a federated mint, than just leave left on the exchange and the gap being, well, you've gotta learn out that you gotta go and roll dice in the yard 500 times, because that's the best practice. Who runs the mints? Who do tricks? Do you have any Well, it's it's yeah. Obviously, it's degrees of trust. That's true. That's a tricky thing. But you've got trust problems anyway. You've you've left how many Bitcoins are still on the exchanges? So it's not you're not making it perfect. You're making it against I mean, the risk in terms of who runs them. So, So, like, if you run a min, I guess now allowing all this privacy and perfect privacy in theory and all that. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're running one of these things. Yeah. Now you're a money transmitter or whatever fucking label is put on it. Yeah. So who will run the min? That's the elephant in the room for me. Well, we'll run the mints. Well, if you go if you retreat from that and you run whirlpools instead, any e t x o's that are marked as though looking that they've just gone through a whirlpool aren't redeemable in the real world straight away. On the principle that we've we just spiked the mixers who made the mixer, so so if you go and make your own container and you run it yourself, fine, but now you're the closest nerve ending to a stomp. So if you retreat that way, you've kept your fees, you've kept the user experience problems, you're back to where you started before they got swatted, the developers, and now that risk is on anybody running it. Maybe. And if Federation's not, that's a problem as well because it looks like you're posting into a wallet. But the wallet stays, I think, just stays as a BC fixed wallet.
[00:19:55] Unknown:
When you peg into a mint and peg out Mhmm. It looks just like a lightning transaction.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So it so Which which can look like a personal transaction. You can make an argument you that you So to tie that up then, so you have the potential issue or stomping point with Whirlpool is, right, you've been through Whirlpool. We wanna now somehow say that you can't spend these funds. Okay. Fine. Open a liking channel. Send it into a mint. But so you're already, like, talking about privacy, you're already on lightning again. After fees, after you've mixed, you go on a Lightning channel is is your fix. If someone wants to stop buying. But they should, like, guess who? You've got the whole board is, like, people who wanna use money, and we're down, like, first thing first two steps of that process. You get there, you're private, and you've done it, but 90 of those people out of the hundred in the board are gone. Not usable. Not scalable. No one's got the time to learn all that. And that's what I'm saying. It's it's you can't make great the enemy of good if a federation just lets you roll off onto a pool that's not the exchange. You've taken a direct counterparty risk with the exchange. And, yeah, you've got to take your chances with the guardians of that pool. But the thing is it's not But it's three times. This is not a binary choice. It's not a case of federation or Whirlpool. It's like this stuff exists for whoever wants to use it. Mhmm. And if you want to be the cheapest routes of privacy. Yeah. Like, total privacy in the money. Yep. There's trade offs, isn't it? It is. Of course. Of course. But that's a very good one. Show me a mint. We get to see it in the world and see it working properly and people using it and who's who's gonna run that. There's loads of fucking questions around it, and you're right. Like, using both and having the options is best.
[00:21:28] Unknown:
But I disagree that it's difficult now if we got Whirlpool back to run it because it is
[00:21:35] Unknown:
one click on fucking Start nine. Mhmm. One click. That's it. One clear. Yeah. I know. I know. Yeah. Never spent less than fucking five days setting a full node up or you, but that will be remain to be seen. Maybe it'll be Well, my no. My Start nine setting up my Start nine this time was, even running it on my old laptop, pretty fucking painful. Did you get help to us or someone who No. No. Did they soften the pickle jar up for you? I've fucked it since then doing Did they do it all, repack it, and then pretend that you were just doing it from the start? But they've actually just turned it on. Did it say max on it when it loaded up? Yeah. You must press here. Press hit that big bloody red button. Uh-huh. It's simple. Mate, yeah. I haven't This simple. Like, it's I fucking can do it. It's a relative statement, and we've we've just become really comfortable with doing stuff that's a bit tasty.
Yeah. Yeah. And they don't no one talks to the ones that are just not using it. But what about someone who's buying anyone can buy a start nine prebuilt and plug it into their fucking Ethernet cable. Yeah. But anybody can walk around this line, but they'd have to bring Wellies. Anyone can flash it. It's that easy, innit? Anyone.
[00:22:40] Unknown:
Any fucking retail can do it, and then anyone can go on on the graph graphical user interface Insta Dojo.
[00:22:47] Unknown:
So why isn't it adopted? Why is it not in there yet? So the dam's gonna burst whenever this gets released? Not really because I don't through your wave of baby boomers with you some bit. No. What I'm saying is that anyone who cares can. Mhmm. Even non technical ones. Like someone like me who five years ago would spend
[00:23:05] Unknown:
a whole weekend fucking around and breaking stuff and calling queue and like, oh, broken this and how the fuck is this working? Oh, stress. And in channels and, fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Now, me five years ago could go, Ethan and a cable install done. I'm looking forward to the video. Yeah. Nothing's that easy. Except the new Prime. Except neither.
[00:23:26] Unknown:
I did check. I didn't pay him to say that, by the way. Yeah. And I haven't even seen it at all, but he's a very good illustrator. Q and A. I haven't even seen it. But the drawing he did looks really good. Yeah. That was a good drawer, especially with crayons. You're an artist. Dark mode is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shaded. I know it's a bit we've got heads on that, but I it's just
[00:23:46] Unknown:
There's room for me. Yeah. I yeah. Like, exactly that. Well, let the best one When it comes to fatty mince any, cashew, it's difficult one, isn't it? Like, you're I'm not doing I'm not doing cat cattle's work. Like, you're not gonna It's a dinosaur fight, mate. Like, you you don't you don't like cashew. I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm speaking for you. But there there's reasons for it that there are good use cases for it. Like, I'm not gonna put all my Bitcoin into a consuming Yeah. %. But there's times I don't you are. Yeah. But, like, there's all this stuff. It's like none of it's binary. It can all exist.
[00:24:18] Unknown:
I don't think you can tell people you shouldn't use stuff. No. No. I I I and to be clear, I don't think I ever have said don't use No. You should. You should. You should. You should. You should. This. I guess. It's it's a case of and in fairness, the people behind Cashew, like Cali, obviously, like, he's very, very forthcoming with the trade offs more than anybody is. But not everybody is, unfortunately. So I just my my main gripe or bugbear is is to just make sure that you're very clear about the trade offs. Private wallet of Satoshi. Yeah. Exactly. That that sort of stuff. But yeah. You you're absolutely right in terms of, like, use cases. Like, if the use case the specific use case that you wanna look at is how do I onboard to NoStar and receive value straight away, CashView is perfect for me. Yeah. You you don't need to fuck about. You just you just like, it's it's there. It works. It's good. It's done. But is it something that I would push somebody to to be like, this is your first onboarding into, you know, air quotes Bitcoin?
Then I think you're doing them a disservice. So it it's
[00:25:15] Unknown:
the right application for the right use case. So I don't think people are getting the right information because there's VC money behind some of this stuff. In sense. And not necessarily Khashu, but other stuff. Yeah. And therefore, people aren't saying these are the issues, maybe you should consider what you should do as of. How many times we talk about on the show all the time, but these fucking dickheads who go around the world onboarding people onto Wallet of Satoshi and thinking they're changing the world, that is a big step up to use something like Cashew compared to Wallet of Satoshi privacy wise. Yeah. It's still custodial, but it's a massive step up. Like, it's You can't separate the two because if they've if they've done it on Wallace Satoshi, that got up someone's ass who was doing cashew work, and they said, fuck that. We'll do it this way. Mhmm. And it's just stepping stones. But the there's a big advantage to doing stuff even if it looks a bit paper mache behind the scenes. Statements and physical examples of something working are a big deal. Even if they're not even if they look more filled out than they really are, it's a big advantage to to use something that does have a trade off if it's easier just to show you can. It's even if that's the hook, and then they realize your point of view and say, alright. Well, that makes it a lot easier, but I'd rather be a bit on the safe side, and they can pick their basket they sit in. But some people, I don't think, will ever need leave Nosta for Bitcoin and transactions.
You can put them all together into one account. That's it. No one will go up the ladder unless it's big amounts of money, and then they'll just buy the service from a business. That's what happens in Bitcoin. Anything that's technically not possible for a while, it's like a business forms around it. I guess, like, multisync was kinda that like Casa were doing that. Exactly. And then the other one is like the lightning lightning was a bent it was a white paper, then it was a lightning torch, then the, like, the channel thing became a problem, and then it became lightning service providers. Yeah. Right? So It makes it popular for a reason. Because Yeah. They wouldn't have existed if channels would have been fixed technically, but they persisted like a broken bone, and then the business grew around it. So if anything stays stuck in Bitcoin, 5 4 3 2 1, a business comes out offering a business solution with trade offs, the tech guys are upset. They wanna have the problem that doesn't work, and the business trying to square the circle kinda gets shit. Is that what I've seen as a pattern?
But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. So that's the agenda. What else is going on in, Bitcoin? What are people
[00:27:26] Unknown:
upset about or excited about?
[00:27:28] Unknown:
To turn to I don't know. You've not really been in the in the world of Bitcoin. Dice, what have you got for us? Not Bitcoin. Your thoughts? I haven't at the moment, then. No. You've just been eating. You've just been going back and forth on a barbecue, feeding yourself sausages while we're talking. Sausages cooked with a blowtor. Wore a hole in my carpet. You're also looking after two dogs.
[00:27:48] Unknown:
Don't doubt sick. I'm so tuned out at the moment. You're tuned into after the Yeah. I tuned into what's going on here. But, like, broader, I'm just I'm so timed out from it. Like, I work on stuff that's useful.
[00:28:02] Unknown:
Stuff that I think should exist. And Apart from that, I don't care about the latest thing. Mhmm. There's repetitive arguments now. Yeah. You you you feel like you're going back in time. Sometimes you're going to the wrong thread. Greybeard Syndrome. It's just it's just they're just arguing on stuff that was resolved years ago, like it's new. You graduate from, I think, from Bitcoin. You graduate from it. You can't go back and enjoy that pond with that finance guy that put the piece in and the puzzle for you. Once you've done the tour, you're fucking done. Yeah. You check back in for big check. Figure out your use case, you get comfortable with the tools that you like, and then you can as a tune out a little bit. And because to keep up with the latest and greatest CTV covenants, all that sort of stuff, and all the arguments, and the pros and cons around it, and then the next thing with lightning, like, it's it's a full time job Yeah. That was true. Twice over. The no bullshit Bitcoin thing, if it gets on that, it's worth a look down. Yeah. It's worth three minutes or spritz, thirty seconds, that app and Ellen bits, blah blah blah blah. Right, done. And even, like, with stuff like OPCAT, CTB, that sort of thing, it doesn't really matter. I'm not gonna change anything by getting heads up about it. Like, it'll come into existence or it won't, and I can use it if I want to if it comes into existence. It can't be worse than the hard fork. Like, if that fucking happened, they traded through that. So just tell it tells you one. Hiss and honking, just tell us you won. Or no one won. It's a waste of time. Come here and build houses. Yes. Yeah.
You'll you'll have a house at the end, not just tired. Do you think things are quieter now than they were four years ago? Or is it just me being tuned? No. I care. Care less well. I think everyone around this table cares less not cares less, but like No more. We're just thinking Well, how many times do you forget How many times do you watch your favorite movie even though it's your favorite?
[00:29:39] Unknown:
It's not your whole life. It's a tool. Bitcoin is a tool. It's not the thing. It's not the god. It's just an easier way to get along on something very important. That's it. This is the wallet software I use. I like Smaro. I don't care about these extra really, honestly, I don't really care because I'm like, it's so fucking good. Yeah. That's what I use. Yeah. And I use a passport.
[00:30:00] Unknown:
I don't really care about other stuff. Past that, like, he used Whirlpool when it was around because that was what I like, past that, it's like, I don't really fucking know. See, so that's what we're trying to do. So when you feel like that, come skydiving with us. And when you're all bored and sad about where you're at, just come and I'll just come and push you out of a plane. Literally. Good analogy. Literally. Because this is the other thing, like, as a thesis, everybody's got bigger bags than they've got character to judge when and how to use it. And, yeah, you can lock it in a well and get £10,000,000 or lock yourself in prison, but there's a game here in your life, and you've got to use it like a tool so it doesn't run you. You're those busy. This room's just gonna be full of sticks, but it Yeah. It's like this watery tip of alarm table. We got a ball up here. Dicks and sausages. Yeah. I think for me around, like, staying up to date and stuff, when when I was really
[00:30:53] Unknown:
at the stage where I couldn't get enough of this sort of stuff, like 2018, '20 '19, the community was so much smaller, and the conversation was much more focused around the latest developments and, yeah, and, like, much more ethos driven. Yeah. Whereas now, it's just we just talk about Trump. We talk about the next bank. We talk about Saylor. Yeah. And I just like that just doesn't interest me. So that's part of the reason why I don't stay as up to date with the the, you know, the wider conversation because it's just not for me. But what is then what would be the what would be the other storyline where you're like, right, I've gotta get back in and check-in? Is it the ground game? For me, it's the conversation on Nosta, basically Right. At the moment. It is. It's it Nosta now feels like I've only been in twenty years. No. No. Like,
[00:31:41] Unknown:
mate. Jesus. I think arguably,
[00:31:44] Unknown:
Nosta's bigger than Bitcoin for a period of time. Like, it can I think it does this? We'll go that far. No. No. Because because it's just hand in glove with Bitcoin. If you're onboard a Gnostr user, you've basically onboard the Bitcoiner. But the addressable market for Gnostr users has no gaps to carry because it's a means to an end. So if we use it to start certifying on the different training systems or memberships or any other type of endorsement or proof of work, anybody, a mountain bike instructor, a farmer, anybody who needs that record ships a Bitcoin wallet off their nosta. And then that adoption rate, I think the adoption rate overtakes Bitcoin in whatever pro rata way that is. And then when everyone's on nosta, then they pick up more Bitcoin.
Mhmm. Maybe. It's that big. Max isn't convinced. I just fucking You just see a Twitter clone. No. No. No. No. No. I think you're comparing it to social than And you're not you've gotta go on through all the nips and what they promise. No. And you go, fucking hell, that's the that's the Internet on an a four piece of paper? No. Yeah.
[00:32:42] Unknown:
What I feel
[00:32:43] Unknown:
Don't care what you feel. You know, I
[00:32:45] Unknown:
hear too much hype. And usually, when I hear too much hype, things are quite shit. It gives me that feeling of, like Poop you. Yeah. There's this feeling around it where I'm, like, I get the technical aspects of what it can do. And, yeah, it's not just a Twitter clone. I understand the need for it, and I get it. Cool. There's something about it. Maybe it's because it's very VC heavy. It feels like it's being feels like it is. It feels like the way it's shield is not completely organic. Like, it's like wrap up the people who are already in Bitcoin, feed them this, and it is cool, and it just I don't know. It doesn't feel it doesn't feel as organic as Bitcoin did to me. That's all it is. I understand that they're It's gonna be quicker to the punch with if if it looks and feels like Bitcoin about a third of it, the mechanics, the
[00:33:32] Unknown:
Keith pairs, the Mhmm. Then, of course, businesses are gonna get to it quicker. Of course, they're gonna go right, this is the Bitcoin of this it has got a bit of that shitcoin feel to it. Like something ramping up behind Bitcoin and threatening, but it isn't competing with money. No. It's not money. No proof of work anyway. No blockchain. So it keeps all the good bits of Bitcoin, and it sort of tessellates with it perfectly. Where you onboard to one, you can onboard to the other. And you can put it on an app for anything. It can it'll replace Strava, LinkedIn.
All the socials are gone. They're gone.
[00:34:04] Unknown:
That security part that I bang on about all the time and that I think you might have fixed possibly with, with Passport is a massive hole for me as well. Like, I just don't like that part. I don't like feeling like you could put all this energy and time into something that you could lose.
[00:34:20] Unknown:
Yeah. So you so you're talking about, like, basically, your your digital identity being a private key, basically. And if you fuck up with that private key, your digital identity is toast. Yeah. I I don't think that's fixed.
[00:34:32] Unknown:
There's solutions around it, like We just do a federated mint style social recovery for that. Yeah. But the problem is if that private key falls into the wrong hands Yeah. It doesn't matter whether you can recover it or not. Well, if it's a social recovery, if you if you just have to meet three of the other people that helped you make it, that you know as friends, and the other guys took it. It's if it falls into the wrong hands. Yeah. So so so it does, and then they send a few, like, Max's gaze out on the two. So it is not Max's gaze. It's you build a massive you build well, it is. You build a a massive
[00:35:01] Unknown:
following over a long time. You have the load of listeners or whatever it is. Yeah. Or a business around it. Mhmm. Someone now gains access to your n pub Yeah. Whatever, nsec. And then now, they control it. My issue is, like, that could be really dangerous.
[00:35:19] Unknown:
Open doors with it and So that's like just that's just Bitcoin again. No. It's but it's not you just you've just gone from one to the other because on on the Bitcoin stuff, it's like, keep it on the exchange or spin up 12 words, and you've gotta be responsible. Right? And then the NOSA, I don't like it because ultimately, I could put some reputation on it. And if I don't manage the 12 words properly, I lose them. Well, yeah. Fucking everybody. Managing. Managing. It's better than Bitcoin because no one can spend that reputation after a certain point once once you've gone out and said, that's it. It's not my account anymore. It's different. If you could have something like you could have your NSEC, and then you have child NSEC. No. You could you could have brother and sister, so you could just say, right, I'm gonna launch in two new end end clubs, and one signs something joint with the other, and then you keep them in separate places. And all the multiset coming through are lost. All frost is coming through. I was just about to say, yeah. There is ways to fix it, but it's just too early to And for one And for one of them
[00:36:12] Unknown:
to take prevalent. So you've got stuff like a HSM mode, like NSEP bunker, where you have it on a node and it's Yeah. It you talk to it remotely. You've got apps like Amber that are a separate app on your phone, where that's the only one that you put the trust in. You got solutions coming up on Passport where it's like an offline device where it talks via Bluetooth to your phone that holds your private keys, so segregation that way. You've got the multisig sort of stuff for you. I think we're just gonna have to wait and see which one See which one works out. Yeah. But, yeah, it's definitely a risk, especially now because basically,
[00:36:41] Unknown:
what most people are doing is just pasting their insect everywhere, and there is gonna be people who get hurt. But no, but the risk is that we're using LinkedIn to make business relationships. That's the fucking risk. Not not using something that is very, very high fidelity and the one in million chances you get your key swept and you're important enough for that to matter. The risk is everybody goes out on a network where you can just say what you want, and there's no proof of work. There's no audit or record of what you've done. There's no signed events. There's no check ins that can't be invented. And it's all fake anyway. Like, the minute you've just got that, even if there was a fifty fifty chance over five years, you lose your reputation, you still run for as long as you do on the reputation that's still better than your Uber score or at least as good as your Uber score, not your Uber score.
But, you know, the the Nostos, I just think it's gonna be bigger. It's gonna be picked up quicker is the other way of putting it. It's gonna get picked up quicker than Bitcoin in the same stretch of time, and it will help Bitcoin get adopted. Just whatever feature cracks in Nosta that a non Bitcoin user needs has Bitcoin on the back end for free. Do we have any real actual metrics
[00:37:43] Unknown:
of
[00:37:44] Unknown:
use on it? Hard because it's decentralized, the same as Bitcoin. Like, the metrics have all all come with health warnings. Like, it could like, in Bitcoin, you can make transactions a little Or like how many you can measure it. Is it 500,000 users a year ago? I think was a good number. Yeah. Nosto.band
[00:37:58] Unknown:
has stats on it. I'm gonna dig in that. Okay. Yeah. You can get, like, daily active users,
[00:38:02] Unknown:
active end pubs, and then dormant accounts. You can see all that sort of stuff. There must be stuff on the Bitcoin transactions as well. There must be No. Because that links into all the podcasting two point o stuff, so excuse it. But doesn't oh, I see. Right? So you can't there's no, like, natural local transaction level. I don't think. I think you probably could do it, but they lump it in. So when when you see these spouts, it's like, oh, there's this much Bitcoin being moved. It's like just a load of Well, it's fucking boosts on podcasting two point o. That's what it is. But even that, like like, you can do talk about triple entry accounting and all that. If you had Nosta, we're looking at it for the business we're in in here. You could have a an end pub attached to a tractor, an end pub attached to a worker. And if they don't have the right license, they've knocked on the first aid, the tractor hasn't got an MOT, the fucking thing won't open. So you talk about audit and health and safety. If you had a tap signer style thing, regardless of the risks of it being lost at the bottom, they'll give a shit, make another one. They can get into somewhere or not be in somewhere
[00:38:55] Unknown:
on live rails for safety stuff. It's already double fucking 12 words doesn't matter. Yeah. You just get a card to somebody and That side of it, I think, is really cool. And when it starts to be coming into, like, you talk some of the physical world stuff here where you wanna do it and reputational stuff and blah blah blah. Very, very cool. That opens up a whole different
[00:39:15] Unknown:
world, basically. Because you can do payments at the same time as access control. You can do payments at the same time as access control. So you can enter the building Cost. Pay in or not. Check your end pub. Yeah. Are you a long time donor to the show? As an example, if you're generous and you sent lots of zaps and you've got an Anoster account, it's irrepeatable good faith, isn't it? And then say those people who are producing content came into lots and lots of commercial land with lots and lots of cheap products. We just take a query of the mPubs and say, right. Anybody in that white list is 50% discounted on something you don't have to go to a Fiat shop for Yeah. Yeah. Across a range of different things, food, materials, services, training, holidays, whatever you want. And when you pay, you pay at the exact same time as when the door opens or when you order a table or when you order something. Yeah. Yeah. And it pays the workers at the same time because it prisms into a project that's already costed on a template. And the bloke who's doing the table gets it into their Bitcoin wallet when they say the job's finished. And it sits in an escrow at project level, unlike a company that has a treasury in its legal entity. You can budget projects with Bitcoin along Nosta.
[00:40:22] Unknown:
What Nostery, Bitcoin y, cool shit can you guys talk about here? Because we are sat at Citadel Timber with still a long way from what I can imagine, but a fucking big step forward from when I was last here, which was only, I don't know, couple of months ago? Couldn't have been. Month. We've we had a month and a half maybe. Month and a half. Yeah. Big step forward. There's a lot going on here. So as you think about where this is going,
[00:40:47] Unknown:
where does Nostra and Bitcoin fit into this business? Just integral to mine. It it's absolutely integral, Nostra. Because the whole cost of doing business in in at least in The UK is dealing with the public. The amount of businesses in the graveyard because they tried to face the public doing something good hearted Yeah. And just got destroyed. So this idea that the risk is in your counterpart is a customer, but we've got really good quality customers. It means that we can audit people in a good faith way. You got us. Hey, mate. You alright? Your steak? Sausage? This is the guy this is the guy that stays quiet in it. They're all in the barbecue. It's keeping warm. Good for audio quality. I'm gonna go get them. What's that? ASML. We add it to the spit up. No. We keep and this is this is chicken.
[00:41:26] Unknown:
Go see dice rolls. How technically annoying is it fitting this stuff, or is it all kind of
[00:41:33] Unknown:
Make I think what Ben was talking about. I haven't. I haven't yet. Go ahead. It's all doable. I'm keeping it. It's all doable. Like I was saying to someone when we're in awe, none of it's hard. It's just doing it. It's understanding the vision, which is not always easy as it can be. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:49] Unknown:
Fuck off. And then building it. That's the hard bit. Yeah. And then having peoples come in and use it. That's the thing. All this tech stuff, it's shit if you haven't got a proper business. I don't think a tech company is a real I don't think it's this ridiculous thing to say. A tech company. It's like, what? Tech could tech what? It's only good against what it makes cheaper in a real business. And the tech, the AI, and all of that, that's not a company. That's reducing friction on stuff that takes ages because it's notebooks and nowadays emails, and later on, it will just click straight away. So we're saying Nosta, you if the atomic unit, one of them in Nosta is the accounts and one is the events. They're the atomic units. Across those two things, you can inventory an entire business and automate it. You can make Nosta into project open source project management software. And when you open a project, a Nosta would knit whatever 90.
Mhmm. It opens a project container with a Bitcoin wallet at the top that assigns an owner from the creator of the project, and then dispenses the stakeholders as they're paid. T shirt sized for dead work, bounties for physical work or for particular problems, and people can donate into that project. It will dissolve what a company is probably because you don't need a central treasury in a company anymore because that was what fiat banking stopped at. But, Nosta, you can fund things down to pennies. We can do it where later on, say, October has an end pub with a zap receivable in it. We've got a battery bank here. If someone wants to zap us 50 p's worth of electric, we can literally just put a trigger on on the grid and just pull 50 p of electric into batteries we've got. No one's gonna send me 50 p. Remember when,
[00:43:18] Unknown:
early days Bitcoin, especially with lightning, when everyone was talking a lot about micropayments? That was, like, the thing. Mhmm. Obviously, Nostra's kinda doing that now. As an example, we have some graphics that me or mister Crown have made for Uncouple of Misfits. Someone comes here. You've got a massive touchscreen Yeah. Ordering system you've built there Yeah. On the CNC. And someone says, here's a massive countertop that I want for my desk. Can you CNC in the Ungovinal Misfits skull?
[00:43:46] Unknown:
They press it. They buy it. Yep. They scan their end pub, whatever. They buy it. They pay in Bitcoin. It starts printing. And then a percentage goes down to Ungarvo Misfits and to mister Crown because he made that Yeah. So he gets his And it and that's all visible up front when you buy it. Right? Yeah. So it's like a kind of top sheet of a of a contract. It's like when you press buy against your thing, you're buying a table or a cup of coffee. And then it'll have, like, you have on the splits and the prisms on the pods, you're not a 90%, three % thing. It'll have that on everything on the nostril, and that's recorded. So if I jot you on your table, you don't have to do nothing. It's just like report on Twitter. You just say, hey, that thing that we agreed never went down. Over time, you build up reputations, and reputations go to zero. And people would be able to see that on an ordering system as well. So, like, one change we're making it ungovernable.
[00:44:33] Unknown:
Going forward, any sat splits, anything that comes in from Ungovernable Misfits for anything, 10% goes to free samurai. Yeah. So that's coming in from next week. And so people would be able to go to order the table, and that might drive a decision where they go, do I want the ungovernable skull, or do I want this other one? Yeah. Well, hang on. I quite like that this goes to this and this one Yeah. So they are getting paid. And, oh, that's quite nice. Exactly. And then they hit that. You guys earn the money. We earn that's where I sit and I go, that's cool. That's all upfront. So there's no, like, charities,
[00:45:06] Unknown:
fiat charities are psychopaths. They're like, right. We we wanna give water to Africans Yeah. From London on 6 figures in a nice bit of town because we don't like going out on the dirty train. Yeah. Psychopaths. Yeah. But this is like, no. That's the front window, and all the pipe work going from that window to where I was getting paid. Not only can you see it, you can see I can't get into it. From the point you transact to the point that person's getting paid, it's over. And that's it. And that leads on to contract real smart contracts Yeah. That have a syntactic highlights of types of arrangements, like legal like seed legals, like boilerplate legal agreements. They can start to go on muster as well as recognized contracts.
So one might be for a hardware signing device that level of size. I pay you, you send me that type of transaction.
[00:45:55] Unknown:
That is then shown to be used by many people, and then you can show how many of those you've done. Someone orders something, one of the people who's milling here, someone's walk walking around, they go, oh, there's a job that needs to be done. Exactly. They can scan their M pub. That worker gets a percentage of Yes. You've earned has the business. Yeah. So the people who are busier and actually do stuff earn more. And do the work that pays the most Mhmm. On a list. There's another one. We're looking at using Nosta to rebuild PADI as a scuba dive syllabus.
[00:46:23] Unknown:
But what's interesting is, if you're an instructor and you leave and quit, you don't get a retirement. But if you're in the system for twenty years, you probably deserve one out of diving. If you're a Nostra instructor and you've got that m pub and you've issued open water certifications for twenty years to customers, you could have it that those m pubs, whenever they dive in the future, send a 3% scrape back to the guy that taught you how to dive forever. Forever. And if they go on to do instructor themselves, there's a little scrape like dust coming from the students you taught. And what you have is if you retire and dive in when you're 50, you keep your NSEC, and you've got a stream of SATs. Just make sure you secure that insect properly.
[00:46:59] Unknown:
Like, you secure your Bitcoin because, like, you secure your pension, which is what it's replacing. Possible to I don't understand, like, where you'd be scared of having Nosta backed up in the same thing you have your money back Of course. With no net. No. You do. Because where do you generate the insect from is one. So if you consume that is a bit online wallet. Yeah. Offer secure offline device, you can do that, and that's somehow like a child seed from your Bitcoin thing, which you've secured really well. Brilliant. That would be great. It's technically identical to that Yeah. Bitcoin and Nostra. That's step one. You have to do it right, not generate it in an app that's closed source. And two, is you have to make sure that you're not directly inputting VAT into
[00:47:37] Unknown:
all these different bits of software, which is what you're talking about with Amber No. The dive the divers are retiring without a pension. I know that. Right. So it doesn't matter if they lose their 12 words halfway through. It doesn't What? It's better to just take that risk because the what what's being held back for your perfect solution is just a good enough I'm not saying don't use it. I'm just saying definitely will. And it's you like, it's it's no different than if LinkedIn decided to scrub your profile. You lose all of your connections, all of your comments, all of the people, you're gone. So it's not we're not fiction to perfect. We're fiction to one inch above LinkedIn for free. What I'm saying is it's so close to being
[00:48:12] Unknown:
that perfect thing where you go I I'm very comfortable with my VidCon. I'm like, I'm comfortable. It's secure. I'm happy. Everything in my life basically runs off it. But with an NSEC,
[00:48:22] Unknown:
I'm not there yet because it's not quite there yet. So I'm not gonna lean in as hard as I did with Bitcoin. It's like fucking Well, it's not money. Let's go. It's like, you you got no reputation at the moment except goodwill and subjective stuff. Yeah. So it's it's anything better than than what we've got now. Anything is better than what we've got now. And And think of all people got rinsed on businesses and VC investments. All these people are getting fucked, and it's quiet, and it's not audited. So if there's a map that's got a bit of alright. You gotta go and do some anal things and roll the dice and stuff. But get on that map and start doing events with people that are real and trading with people that are real and using it because it's proven there's life over here. Because the rest of it's just an unauditable swamp. People pop up in the middle with the Bitcoin hat on, rake you for $50, and gone. They keep coming up on the stages, and they are just serial losers. I wanna be on a map where I could lose my 12 words, but that they are different to me. And I'll take the risk of the 12 words being wrong right now. I think that's what it'll be used for. It's a structured link LinkedIn, and it ships with money. And the badges is huge, that type of endorsement, and you can send a badge to somebody else. The yeah. The the possibilities literally end. Like, everybody that's in Bitcoin has had that moment where they take 12 words, and they put it into a different wallet, and they see their money appear, and they're like, holy shit. And it went and it went when it goes How did the money move? And just like, well, it didn't do it. Yeah. Nostra is exactly the same, but for the entire rest of your life. Yeah. Look at any app on your phone, Uber, eBay Yep. LinkedIn,
[00:49:48] Unknown:
yeah, Facebook, Instagram.
[00:49:50] Unknown:
Imagine just being able to put in one piece of information and have your whole social network. Imagine Imagine that. Surely that's just as, if not more worrying, if you're gonna lose all that. That's what I'm saying. No. You've already lost it. No. Yes. You you you didn't have a reputation before our system. I'd rather I'd rather lose all my money than lose everything else. You've got a copy of your reputation on Noster. You're still a person. You still got what you you lose your Bitcoin, it's gone. You don't you don't get a copy of the fiat money in your bank account. It's not the same thing at all. You can lose your reputation and say, I've lost my reputation and start again. If you do it the right way, like what I'm talking about, where it's not your you're not inputting your twelve and twenty four words into all these apps, like Facebook or whatever.
[00:50:31] Unknown:
You're doing it from a secure device like you're doing with Passport with your Bitcoin.
[00:50:35] Unknown:
You're doing the same thing. So it's never leaving the device. Yeah. At that point Yeah. I'll just do it when it's still a mess and just open a business faster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Well, you still do it. Yeah. You look at Bitcoin in 2014, like, people literally printing private keys at paper, and now look where we are. Exactly. So It's the net risk. It's not the risk you wanna stare at and ignore all the others around. It's the it's the total ownership of this a versus b. Yeah. And for me, I can make a lot of services nearly half as cheap by just establishing the basics. Just one link to me so far are cheap cheap customers, and one hop from them are about somewhere halfway between that. Yeah. One hop. That's it. And it's all there. It's all built. Where do you reckon it is then in terms of, like, a comparison to Bitcoin, Nostra, now, like, on a timescale?
They're not gonna unroll into the markets the same in the same way. Nostra come out behind Bitcoin, so it gets the benefit of that. It's, like, drafting in behind. Yeah. So all the basic mistakes like, it already had a technical decision to make about how to back up NSX. Great. 24 words. We already worked that one out. Bank. And that got us QR codes. Great. Okay. Oh, and we've got lightning now. So that got piped in. Done. And that all happened very quickly. It's like in Africa when they went from, like, no telephone wires and telegrams all the way quickly up to mobile phones. They never put copper cables in and no intermediary tech. But it's gonna be like that, like, Nostril will leapfrog stuff that took Bitcoin a long time to decide. Because at the moment, most people are using it just for social media, like Twitter clone. Yeah. Most people. People. Like, some of the stuff we're talking about here is a big step further than that. Where do you think we are on a timeline from, like, that being normal and that most people involved in Bitcoin or around it are, like, yeah, open doors with it. If I wanna come and get some work done, that February or '10. Two Two thousand '10. You reckon that early? Yeah. Okay. And then But I'm saying that time will move faster on Nostra. Quicker. Yeah. Because, like, 2010 Bitcoiners didn't have AI to rewrite code. Yeah. You're different. The river's different. So Nostra will come out faster, and it will fill out to the width of Bitcoin in terms of a project. And then it'll slightly overtake it, and then I think they'll just go shoulder to shoulder with each other. So five years? I think it'd be less than that. You reckon? Yeah. Because of AI? I think it's gonna be harder to quantify though, because with Bitcoin, the use case is money. That's it. Yeah. With Nostra, the use case
[00:52:52] Unknown:
is everything else. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like you might get it shooting ahead. Yeah. You might get it shooting ahead in specific use case like marketplaces,
[00:53:01] Unknown:
uncentral marketplaces, but then the LinkedIn type of thing might not happen or never happen for twenty years or something. It I I it's it's at the moment just as a thing, even though it's $20.10 Bitcoin in terms of it's how built out it is. It's my cheapest to deliver security system on a real business. It's my cheapest to deliver solution for for access with the other things I need, like point of payment, knowing who's on the site. And then we can append things like if staff are here and they've got a staff budget, you know that they can start your heart again. Or they know how to use a defibrillator. Or they know how to hit it when you're choking on a sausage roll. Very likely. Talk about risk.
Someone's been first aid trained to Heimlich maneuver you, which would be a horrendous job. I can derisk stuff that people just accept at risk inside of a normal Fiat world. Just totally serious. My end hub to ride that robot you're buying? Yes. Have you seen this robot you've bought? I have not. The can you play it? Well, look at a unitary, like a DJI, that kind of style company, but they did humanoids and dog robots instead. Just play it. Just Yeah. Just play it. Put it on the big screen. Just give just click that for me there, Sausage. That little thing looks like an old Nintendo. Getting this in as a worker. See that? That black box. Just there's no there's a button. It's fucking mental. Because it's not AI. This is actually real. And bear in mind when you're watching this, I do I have a they've got a forestry company on a on a quarry, and we've got a yeah. Just press that for a sec. Thank you. Fucking hell. You're worse than this. Thousand buttons in here? That moment just hit that one. There you go. Skate parks coming in there. Out of the CNC, you know, transitions and stuff. Mhmm. Turn that on pressure with your sausage. Reach the rep. Which button? Oh, it's on and never ends. Hold on. I think the key management stuff's important. I don't
[00:54:33] Unknown:
think it's been solved. What's gonna be happening with the passport prime is promising, but I don't think it's the answer. I think it needs to be some key rotation Yeah. Stuff or There there needs to be the ability to have we've mentioned loads of different use cases, like, got LinkedIn and eBay and all that sort of stuff. You need to have a segregated way to interact with that, that if it does become compromised somehow, that it doesn't risk the rest of the network. Yeah. And there are proposals for it. It's just quite a complex thing because you have all these relays
[00:55:01] Unknown:
and all these clients, and you need to have a solid name that
[00:55:05] Unknown:
does it all. It's the same old organized chaos of decentralization.
[00:55:09] Unknown:
Don't let it bully you. You're nasty pricks. I like you, mate. Oh, fuck. They're wrong about you. I think it's called Negan. No. It's not. Yeah. No. It's not. I like you as well when you're a little bit less cocky. Noisiest quiet man I have ever than that. Mind your fingers.
[00:55:26] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:55:28] Unknown:
Oh, just for you that. Oh, man. We're gonna record them. Talk about Nosta badges. If you can make mark, make that noise. This is not this is not AI. Okay? Verifiable. Real. It's not ordered. You won't reply to my emails? No. You emailed them last night. No. I've been emailing them loads. Oh, real. That's real. Now Pandit, like, the quarry, if someone's injured on a hill, it's not a joke. Like, that gets something to someone for me. You can ride it, Aaron. You can ride it. There's a I'll I'll get the do you know that little herd sheep?
Right? And it's our skate park instructor. Because why wouldn't it be like, you load that up with a backflip, why wouldn't you put that on a skate park? It's got a drone going behind it by the way. Obviously there's a whole thing about that. Sam's getting jealous. Yeah. He's getting funny. It's like fuck you robot dog. You haven't got big plums like me. Oh, I've done it after. We can carry what like, think of all the land in America that hasn't got access by road and so is worth 25% of what it is if it's on a road and you can get in and out on them. Oh. And you can send me. You can send you can send unmanned medical, food, water, battery packs, anything fuel, anything you want. We don't like my barbecue though. It will like it won't like your barbecue.
That'll be $20.30. Jesus. Ordered. Jesus. I'll show you what listen. I don't know what to think about that. One more. Oh, I don't know if I'm convinced it's real. Not me. Well, Aria wasn't convinced, but he's told me a hundred times that it's real. You can Surely, you could buy one online right now then. Yeah. I'm Yeah. Yeah. I'm they've got a DJI style website. Have you seen this? I have seen this. Yeah. So that dog is a hundred thousand dollars. That dog. And these Sorry if it does all that. These cost £400,000 and run on diesel. How much? $400.
It runs on diesel. And run on red diesel. Not avgas diesel. Now you put the dog and you put that together. You're in my notary for that. I am, man.
[00:57:26] Unknown:
Oh, fuck no. That that is actually real. There's a reason why we got a realtor though. Why? Well, I'm just wondering, does he look? You don't? Gets wet? Yeah. Are you No. That's amazing. That thing's that thing's got full of full of flotation. Oh, yeah. That's what it means. So it's okay over water. If you go over a car park from 50 foot, you break your legs. Yeah.
[00:57:45] Unknown:
No. These are Royal Marines. They don't care about that. I have leg broken. We don't care about that. How do you throw it when they break their legs? No. They just don't care. They might break their legs or not. Doesn't matter. It's they're attacking a boat. They're not they're not like, hang on guys. Has everyone got their helmet on?
[00:58:01] Unknown:
When are you getting one of these then? They're gonna get cheaper. It's $400. Yep.
[00:58:06] Unknown:
Runs on red diesel. Red or a one, our fuel. Your choice. I'd have I'd have diesel. What's this guy doing now? Spider man? He's just scaling on a scaling ladder. It's very hard that. Oh, yeah. You've seen it getting ridden around. So I'm gonna I'm gonna insert some images. You take those those tech now, and these are delivered. Yeah. Now if you've got a real business, if you've got something with already, like, eating horrendous risks and horrendous costs on repetitive stuff, and it's analog, nosto and all of this stuff, we can qualify people on these items. Can it do my editing for me, that robot? No, mate.
[00:58:40] Unknown:
I'm fucking repetitive.
[00:58:42] Unknown:
No. No. There's no chance You'd edit it whether it was free to edit or not. Edit, boy. Uh-huh. But, yeah, this stuff is this stuff's coming along. Mhmm. And it's very applicable. So that's a $100,000 quoted drone dog. And it's really cool. And they've probably already made more money on the views than they've made on the sales. For me, we've got a multidisciplinary group. We've got carpentry and joinery, forestry, and training, human training. And that thing can run security, triggers a motion thing, comes out and films whatever's whatever's being moved. It can have a drone mounted on the back of it or behind it. It can do jobs on a farm. Sheep herding, I think, is just obvious. Easy. Pulling up the hill. Anything. And then and then the safety stuff is, like, if you're in a remote forest, that thing just sits on standby, and on it is a big massive first aid pack and whatever else. And as soon as you hit a button button on your jacket, radio just gets it, and it just comes to your AirTag. Yeah. It's not been cool. And it's it's on all the time. It's not having a brew. It's not out sad. It's not drunk. It's just sat there. And the same thing. You know what I mean? Like, but that's the that's the hiring pool outside of Bitcoiners. Sat and drunk. The hiring pool is hard work. Yeah. So that we'll get the robot dog in it. It's that good. And then that same thing, it's just software updates it. It could do a skate park instructing me if we get a few skateboard ramps here, put that on it just like you've seen the demo. That's pretty matter that we're not far away from opening doors with an NSEC. Everything's in Bitcoin and lightning. Yeah. We have robots doing shit. Yeah. It's even better than that. Gangs. All the market are taking the tech and trying to turn it into walled garden and cash flows for VC, for multiples, for floats, And they've run off with the tech, but the the ground game is fast private Yeah. With the same use case almost at the same pace, often faster than like, look at the AI stuff, the the open source stuff's overtaking the closed.
In some respects. In every respect. No. Well, Deepsea came out and just ate everyone's dinner. And then llama, when that got leaked, the llama that got leaked improved faster than the Facebook in house llama. But the mid journey and the image generation is not quite there yet. Oh, god. You're hard to please you. Yeah. Well, I just fucking say it out is, mate. I use mid journey every day. Mid journey is the best thing. There's nothing that's close to it yet. What does that do? Mid journey? No. In the image image If you're attracting, use it for what? All my images. There you go. Certainly pointless job. What about if you had it's fucking pointless. It doesn't fucking matter, does it? How many how many cats you get? I don't give a fuck about that. GPT four Pro designs templates for project work. That was a day. You know, we'd get map word maps and stuff out of the AI. DeepSeek's free. Scan all them books in. Scan all of our operational documents, all our documentation, and let it'll tell us what is completely open?
I just think it's it's just been given back. Yeah. It's complicated because it's been given, but I think it's got this lossy compression effect on it. So the bit that you get is the render down version of the work somewhere else, and it's usable. Right. But it's not backwards it's not back it's not, reverse engineerable.
[01:01:40] Unknown:
But you could run that on your own tower Yes. And then you could train it specifically for your own shit within here Yeah. Run your robots and your Yeah. With it. It gets very Ironman very quickly. It just it's risk. It takes if it takes danger out of the program. If it takes danger out of a program,
[01:01:58] Unknown:
it's gonna pay for itself. Mhmm. Because if you put stuff that's a hundred grand against loss of life, you'll sell them. Well worth that. I'll pay $70 not to have a lab killed under a tree. Yeah. Yeah. That's $70 well spent. What's that at the moment? 1 and a half Bitcoin. Yeah. Tell me where to send it because that's fine. I'll get the dog. And that other thing which shows you, laser cube. Have you seen that? Oh, I got that on this one. Sorry. I'm sorry. How Jordan, you're gonna have to work on how to make video This one's this one's a big deal. For this bit. Somehow, mate. Sorry.
[01:02:27] Unknown:
Go work and show and tell us. Do you will? Wait. Where are you? You're working. Yeah. What's this one? Press someone through a cock, honey.
[01:02:34] Unknown:
Well, that's the first thing to do, isn't it? Oh, my god. It's already been done. There's another one. We'll feed you to this. Oh, mate. Pickup.
[01:02:41] Unknown:
Wait. What the fuck is this? Yeah. This is cool. Yeah. Technology.
[01:02:45] Unknown:
This is a big deal.
[01:02:49] Unknown:
Because you can do raids for it.
[01:02:52] Unknown:
You can do passport demos with it. I can do holographic skill demonstrations with no human involvement. Someone can download a physical training pack and this can deliver it in their living room so they can practice squats.
[01:03:08] Unknown:
You can throw the bat signal up.
[01:03:10] Unknown:
Just put q in between the three Straight off to the set straight off to the central bank. Straight off to the W F. 2 Hundred And 50 meter throw. That what? 250 meters. So that's from the back of the lakes all the way to this building. Look at this. That's insane.
[01:03:27] Unknown:
Does it draw a lot of power?
[01:03:29] Unknown:
Nope. It runs on battery. Mhmm. It's like a laptop sized unit, basically. I'll just get the one with the with the clever bits on it. And then this is the last video we're gonna Yeah. Sorry. I know. I know. Laser compilations number 15. Someone threw tits on Batman. Through the day. She threw the titties on Batman? Dude. For the day. Right. So, like, if you if you're a sniper position Yeah. And you're at, like, Bitcoin Amsterdam, and you've got that in a bag, you could draw tits on Peter McCormack. Well, he's in That's a real use while he's introducing the Oh. Prince of Suburbia again. Yeah. How much is one of these going for? They're just getting out of my hundred bucks up to 4, €2,000 for the full, like, and then it's got I thought you were But that comes with, like, the dry ice mister. Right. And it because you can put these in hologram. Okay. So if you've got two of them and you've got steam, you can create an Obi Wan Kenobi, your my only hope thing. But if you think for a I'm I'm hiring in a trainer, a professional trainer, and we can put the motions of a movement of anything we teach in skill into that format. And on the forestry, we can put that on on a tree, and it can measure level and then highlight on the tree the heavy red parts that are off the thing Mhmm. And the safe green bows that are in the middle. Someone drew tits on Batman, but I I saw a discounted death rate of arborists because that's on a battery pack. With a laptop, they can point it at a tree, and it will color code like conditional formatting on a Excel spreadsheet. But the TikTok ones are the best, because that that's, like, the that was the official video. That You showed me one you showed me one the other day that was more mad. Was it that one? Yeah. Let's try this one, and we'll stop. Yeah. Dog, I am, laser. Yeah. Okay. I should this this isn't a bad one, I think. No, Michelle. Well, we did so. Game order, there's a bit more Bitcoin stuff. So this is That's true.
AI hasn't messed around with the designs yet, but a deep seek would be able to design look at that. IKEA. So if we had a laser cube shining down on this table and you were sweeping through designs that you wanna carved on it on the table, you can play games. You know, that snake game. Imagine that on the side of a castle. I mean, mate Squeaky's got a drone that will pick that up in the air, so it'll shine down from the sky. It'll mark tracks, mark paths. Anyway, I know it's a Bitcoin show, but that's fucking epic. No. It's not. Way more interesting what's happening in Bitcoin. Is it well, I agree. Yeah. The implications, I mean. Oh, Apple. I was all about Apple. Thoughts from everyone? Because we saw it on the last show. It was always gonna happen, wasn't it? Well, that's For sale, one heavily soiled MacBook Air. Real crusty, but loved. It would happen,
[01:06:03] Unknown:
but now they've come out and it's Yeah. It is happening. Yeah. Loads of people will lie and say they don't use Mac and their Linux only, but let's be real, a lot of people use it. I use it. Oh, so you're only fussy about your Gnostic keys, not about, like, your daily driver. That's what I'm talking about now. Yeah. You're alright. Switching. Oh, you are gonna change? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people are in this position now. It's like, yeah, you should be using a Linux machine Lara. Are you showing those? But it's like, these are just so good Mhmm. Or were so good Yeah. The people use them. But now it's like, now coming across a line now, you've actually gone too far. Now it's nah. Fuck off. The UK broadly is off way off the map. They're not keeping track of affairs. The US has rotated its entire structure,
[01:06:46] Unknown:
and Keir Starmer and the socialists are in. Yeah. So that for as long as that is, that'll be the Joe that'll be our Joe Biden era, when all this bullshit, like Yeah. All this will just play out. And it'll be four years of discontented stagflation. Mhmm. And it will get swept in, and it'll get swept back out again. Trump will probably just come through and say, right, you're gonna, give our Apple based our US based Apple company trouble. Just double the tariffs again, ain't it? Like, it can't it can't like, UK can't even enforce its own laws exclusively. Because so if the if The US is driving towards smaller government and more freedom, at least on the tin, I would expect the pendulum to swing back on this quick. I think that the risk here is, other than the obvious risk to
[01:07:26] Unknown:
UK based Apple users, is that all the countries are gonna see this and see that Apple is actually susceptible to to good point, you know, persuasion, shall we say. Particularly in in Europe, I think you're right about The US. It's Yeah. There's a bit of paradigm shift there. But Well, what's Europe? Yeah. The the risk here is that all the European countries will see this and think, I wouldn't mind a bit of that. And also, it's not just the risk of Apple, is it? Like, Apple's not the one under attack here. Encryption is the one that's under attack. So, you know, it's Apple today. Mhmm. Tomorrow, it might be Proton. Then it's Tutanota.
That's the worrying part for me, is that it's easy for me to sit here feeling smug because I barely use Apple and, you know, I've got graphene, proton drive and stuff, but Apple's it was the head that got shot first because it's the biggest head. Yeah. So I I don't think it is gonna end here, unfortunately. I don't worry about it though. I won't say I was worried about it like open source software exists for a reason like that you know for those that have a will up there is a way. Yeah. But the risk is to gen pop that just go on with and use default stuff is that all of their data is just completely And to the degree that's true, it makes the people who aren't using that stand out more.
[01:08:38] Unknown:
Who are you? Who who aren't so if you're if you're the privacy tech guy and you've got all these different softwares and phones, and then 90% of the people are just on the stupid stuff, pure KYC tracking you all the time, you will stand out. Just as not having that right address, IP address, or whatever it is, you'll stand out more and more. I'll stand in both ponds. Like, I'll keep using MacBooks for the boring business. And dare someone to backdoor my MacBooks to see how much firewood we've sold. Just send them you know what I mean? Like, there's a thing in this with, like, okay. Well, if if that's the fucking game, and this is the map we're on You can see there is. Then they are, look, I can bore you to death with what I've got, boys. Come in and and and, like, look through the Mac. I dare you to break my Mac to look at the shit on my MacBook. Yeah. Like, just do it. And thank you for wasting four up to 10 salaries that cannot be bought back Mhmm. But looking up my dress because there's nothing to look at. Yeah. So that everything's got a sort
[01:09:31] Unknown:
of pendulum out, pendulum back kind of feel to it. Reuse this for the boring stuff and then Yeah. Or anything. You you know, you've gotta go to a Linux system, but then it's like, as I was saying to you, Kofi, it was like, what do I use that's gonna work? And and even you as a technical person, like, well, you sort of get something to work for, you know, three months, and then suddenly your driver will go and you won't be able to use your Oh, the Linux desktops.
[01:09:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. And the other one is look at it from the side of the people who've just enforced the law. So we're all gutted that MacBook's just now a bit dodgy. But from their side, they're like, hang on. They're in some meeting, some espionage meeting. Like, right. What did we get then? It's like, well, all the all the serious, criminals and terrorists have just moved to Linux. Yeah. But what have we got? Well, we've got ALF's, Google Drive. Right? So they're like, hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. So we're in the sausage making business. We make intelligence. That decision that has to be enforced now, and has to be staffed, and has to be kept up to date, and has to be looked to be seen to be enforced, now gets us 90% more sawdust.
And where's the meat? They're on graphene or they're on whatever the nth next. So all the crims that are in sent, they cannot use one or the other. Yeah. They didn't even get them anyway. No. Exactly. So think from the law side, whatever that cost in goodwill, in the way they look, bullies, tyrannical, they don't even get anything for it, to my mind. They've they've already given away the enforceability of it because the techs there's 10 other things promised in simplex. And if you're serious, you're doing serious things. You don't think you're back on a MacBook. No. So that's it, isn't it? Just be boring on a MacBook. Is it about law enforcement? Or is it about mass surveillance? And the sort of data that they get is, like, you already know. Just like creepy side of it is, like, there's people using iPhone and MacBook,
[01:11:12] Unknown:
but pictures of their kids, got their private lives, and then suddenly, on the other side of that is some creepy, probably pedo known the British government Yeah. Cults Yeah. Collecting all of that data in their life. Well, maybe a bit. Right? Get in the The pedo or not pedo, but, like, psych psychotic.
[01:11:26] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're a you're a chicken in the chicken farm that is now the focus of attention, like that machine that comes out of the matrix and goggles your eye like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you get that feeling. And then, yeah, it's scary because The UK, what was that signal department that got used to shill COVID narratives? It was like a it was like a hearts and minds. The ones that take over the radio in bloody communist they they come in, and they've got an AI. They borrow DeepSeek, and they had a load of servers left over from some god awful bloody confiscation. And they just start running the compressed Google drives of The UK. They get a political narrative. You know that one in V for Vendetta when they go, we've been listening. And then they they go along in the cars with the speakers, and then they go and report the the mood and feel of the country back to that prime minister. You get that kind of fine control. It's creepy. Mhmm. But it's all good. Fucking creepy. It's a forcing function to make like, I've talked about, I'm gonna get off away from Apple. I've been talking about it for a couple of years. I do for some stuff. I run any Bitcoin stuff as Linux already. But now it's like that forces me to I'm done. Yeah. So maybe that's a bit of a good thing. People are still in awakening. You can you can current using the muck and just not use iCloud. Not use iCloud. I'm not gonna fuck my phone off and go to Graphene. Is it just on iCloud? Yeah. It's iCloud. Oh, which one is it? But there is a They don't use iCloud. Build it up with There are broader issues with what Apple have. They have a proprietary stuff of software that you don't really know what's going on under the hood. So if they're like, okay, well, we're not gonna encrypt this data anymore. What else is going on? Not necessarily there is anything else going on. It's just I wouldn't if there was a perfectly private usable app, I wouldn't use it for all my stuff. I'd put the private stuff on the private app, and I'd put the I'd put the boring stuff on the boring app, and let them go through it, and comb through it. That's more I think that's more balanced. And it comes back to trade offs again. If you're a real person in the real world, and you want to actually run a business Yeah. Do you wanna spend 3 days trying to get your desktop to work? Well, StartNine does even let's let's start Nine as project management software. I'm sure it will soon. But what I mean is, like, you can't use this stuff enterprise level, I don't think, for anything. But Noster and all the I've got a tour in it. Yeah. Well, that's it. It's like it's you know yeah. But, you know, for running, like, no one's I think previously, it's got a hygiene kind of like, it's there's a there's an end perfect that no one will ever get to. And you've got, like, people who are insane and just keep washing their hands and keep using hand sanitizer. And you've got people that don't do anything of filth, and they've got not any privacy good practice at all. I think the balanced middle is do the basics well, except that you're never gonna be a perfectly anonymous person. And then I think Nostra offers the other side of this Apple stuff, which is, well, if you're gonna get looked at under a microscope, at least have your activity logged in a format or an incentive structure you can use for value, and then we'll see. But this is a good opportunity to start How did this happen when you're up to the top? Or is it just been from a failure of all the other attempts?
[01:14:16] Unknown:
Ease of use? I think, yeah, open source for a start, which makes people wanna use it. They were the first to do no software on proper hardware. Okay. That actually worked reliably. Everybody else was like off the Raspberry Pi era. Everybody else was pushing it to be on a Raspberry Pi, which was great if you had a very simple use case for it. Yeah. And then as soon as you start doing password managers, and the files, and lightning, and Raspberry Pi just weren't cut out for it. So start now with the kind of shakers and movers that said, you know what? This is stupid. Yeah. Let's do it on a proper computer that's only a hundred dollars more than a Raspberry Pi anyway. And they've hung tough, haven't they? Because that's a good idea back then, and they're still around now when it's really pertinent. Their support was so good as ours. Is it? Yeah. Like Yeah. Yeah. The other ones fail at support. The other node sellers fail at support. Yeah. Nice user interface.
[01:15:04] Unknown:
Yeah. And open source, so people wanna they weren't open source. Jordan and everyone wouldn't have done what they've done with Dojo because what's the fucking point? Yeah. So it draws more talent across to it. Yeah. Anything else we wanna cover? Or are we sort of What's the prime updates?
[01:15:23] Unknown:
Prime updates, still looking good for early April shipping. The boys here have had a a publicity sneak peek. Yeah. Oh, he let us look at the heart there today, which is wish you met with some smiles and some boos and ahs, which is nice to see. But, yeah, all looking good to be, early April to start shipping for early access customers. Pretty much sold out early access. So if you are gonna order one and you want one of the first packs, then you better be quick. But, otherwise, yeah, we're just cranking hard to get the software finished and tested and ready to get it into the hands. The device is excellent. Mhmm. It's excellent.
[01:15:57] Unknown:
It's excellent. It's the perfect size. It's the perfect dimensions. Whoever did you whoever heads up your design in picking it up like an iPhone feel, get get a Who's
[01:16:08] Unknown:
the stock? It's it's Zach. It's Andy who's our head head of design. Andy.
[01:16:14] Unknown:
Pay rise, mate.
[01:16:16] Unknown:
Pay rise time for Andy. It's funny. Working at foundation is the best job I've ever had, and I only normally have one piece of frustration, and that's the design takes longer than I. I'm impatient. I want shit to come out as soon as possible. Yeah. And the likes of Zach and Andy, agonize over the small bits, which I get frustrated at day to day because I think, oh, you know, we're taking too long. But when you have days like today where I put it in your hand, and you're like, oh, it's rock fucking hell. It all comes together. Like, you you're just not getting that with a ledger or a company. No. You're not. You you pick it up and you you're already negotiating with it in your head. Yeah. I think with them. You're like, right. How are we gonna fucking get to the end of what we're doing now? With that thing, you're like, there we go. So it's moments like that where I take a step back and I'm like, you know what? All of the the frustrations are warranted and the issue should be put for time and the extra design cycles
[01:17:00] Unknown:
are actually worth it when you see it in people's hands and they're like, actually, yeah, this this feels nice. It looks better than it is on it is better than it looks on the website. It's like the opposite of the big Mac on the McDonald's screen. It's the opposite effect. Right? Yeah. You know, you get the one that's just been Calculate. Been jumped around and you just threw it in the box, like, and then the one on the screen is just like, oh, I'd have one of them all that. I wonder if we It's the opposite of that. Put that into our marketing field. It's the opposite Big Mac effect. Yeah. I don't know what there must be a name for it. Definitely makes for that. Yeah. But it is that. And and like everything, the attention to details is metal on you see, when you pick it up, it's cold and heavy in your hand like a Rolex. And I didn't like on the on the passport, you know, the keyboard rattles. Yeah. Didn't like that. Okay. And this one, it's just like a Oh, it's a touchscreen. Yeah. It feels like a big watch. Mhmm. It's got that heft, and then it's got two ridges along the side of it. So when you gripped it, it's ergonomic. I think it's the it's fucking brilliant. Yeah. It is honestly good. Honestly. And the software is even more exciting because of what it opens up on Nostra and much else. The possibilities are quite literally endless. It's not just like a rejigged passport with with all the bits you didn't like about that. It's a new thing with a new feature suite that open keeps everything from the previous one and opens up another bit. It's amazing. That's for hardware.
[01:18:12] Unknown:
What I think is the same with Start9 is open source, open platform Yeah. Well built, well designed, massively jump ahead of fucking everything else,
[01:18:22] Unknown:
and they're going, do you wanna go to that? Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Bring it here. Do it. Well, this is our first chance now. If I if I can make if I have business logic thing here, we need to make something that we use Nosta for here. If that can contain if that can be issued out as a plug in or whatever the I don't know what it would look like, but if we could get that, that it could be on the An app. Prime as an app that we use, and then it's just a matter of switching out those m pubs for them ones or whatever it works out at, that would be so good. Yeah. The the the two main things I'm most excited about is the foundation is no longer the bottleneck for what can be on that device. The only bottleneck now is the imagination of the entire world. Yeah. That's it. Like, you can put whatever you want. And the second piece is, if somebody comes up with a use case that I think is ridiculously stupid Can do it. We can't stop them doing it. Yeah. We're gonna do it anyway. And that's the proof you're not in a walled garden because if you said, oh, that's not for our narrative spike. Yeah. Everyone else goes, alright. Okay. So you can What's probably gonna be totally different to your Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah. Max is just gonna have McDonald's on home.
When when McDonald's up? Go on. It'll lend sovereign burgers. But no, it'll do it. I I I'm interested in that as well. Sovereign burgers? Are there any other kind? I don't know at that moment. That's true. No. I'm interested to see what people non Bitcoiners. Yeah. That's the interesting thing is how do you bring non Bitcoin is into Bitcoin? We've already tried the frontal attacks. It doesn't work. Well, the audio is already opening up because cake are coming in and Cake did the first one. Yeah. So suddenly you've got 500,000
[01:19:52] Unknown:
plus users on k. Exactly. Fucking big user base suddenly going, oh, oh, now we're working with you guys. All the, like, maxi people are gonna get upset by that, but actually, no. Because now they're coming into the Bitcoin world. A lot of these people aren't involved in Bitcoin really. Well, peep I don't think I don't think Nosta will adopt person to person. They'll adopt database to database.
[01:20:14] Unknown:
So when PADI is rebuilt in Nosta, the divers that use it, you win that entire addressable market. And they go on to Nosta, and then that's a double word score because they've now got Bitcoin wallets with any extra effort. So it like, the the adoption into business it will go database to database. That means the PADI database, the SSI is their competitor, and then all the other adventure training, British kayaking, the British freaking fishing association. They're all siloed. They're all separate, and they can all go onto Noster. By extension, you can sign who you are and what you've got and what you own on those. That's why I think the wallet side of it is, least priority. I mean Yeah. Well, that's that makes sense because we're both because they're all both shitless with Bitcoin. So that all stayed the same and it's stable. It's not changed to the worse. It's just not got better at the same rate or our assessment of it. And Nasdaq's keeping everybody excited. Well Apart from Max. Apart from Max yeah but Max is Max's we'll get you on there Max is affected you have to have
[01:21:11] Unknown:
a bald grumpy cunt
[01:21:13] Unknown:
that's me there keep it level you just fixate it on an irrelevant risk It's not irrelevant. It isn't. You are wrong. No. It's not irrelevant. I'll just so just so I'll just fuck it up myself again, and then you'll just say, oh, I I didn't mean like that. Yeah. So I'll just run it in the business. It is relevant. But I I believe there are people smart to fix it, and then it will get there. And at that point, I'll lean in much harder than I am now. But yeah. It's very, very, very cliche, but also very true, and we are just early. Yeah. So everyone gets lost through the price they deserve, don't they, q and a? That's what you said, wasn't it? No. I think that's true. I'll I'll I'll move a bit quicker and take the extra risk. That's what the early Bitcoiners did. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. It was shit. It wasn't it was worth $2 because it was worth 2 fucking dollars. That's why it was $2. Yeah. It wasn't a lottery ticket back then. It was a proper weird, like, what is even this thing? And I think Nosta's doing well just to not be that at the moment. But we're you we're gonna use it when? Now. So we're doing that on physical Internet of Things shit. Turn your washing machine on all that shit. What are you doing? Alexa dot light bulbs and all that shit. We're gonna do it with some real stuff. You can get in here with an insect? Get in here on an insect now. There you go. Or not get in here. Or not get in. On an insect. Yeah. Yeah. Max. How's that insect? Don't come up if you're not a friend of the show. It's a long way to drive home. And we're not gonna do like online test your end pubs. It'll just be The robot dog in there. You tell us what you think. There'll be a few off the mountain. All I'm saying is we're mounting an oak barrel full of water above the door, so it's either it's either an open door or a soggy tripo. Getting wet. Yeah. So fucking hell, if you've got any dodgy sponsors, for instance, bring the fucking Gore Tex hat, fuckers.
[01:22:50] Unknown:
I think we'll end it there. I think we're good. Wrong sponsors, you're getting dunked.
[01:22:55] Unknown:
That's right. And pubs. Right reputation,
[01:22:58] Unknown:
you're getting in and you're getting looked after. That's right. Okay. We'll end it there. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope it gives a little bit of insight into what's happening at Ben Gunn's place. I hope the audio quality wasn't too terrible, and us playing all the videos throughout wasn't too annoying. But it was more of a meet up than anything and just a little, chance for you to look through the keyhole like a perv. On the next Bitcoin brief, we will properly be inserting a little ten minute clip from a dev or someone who's building something interesting. We're getting closer. We didn't quite manage it on this one. But as I said in the intro, you can go back and have a listen. This is actually gonna be sent out as its own pod. Just a little ten minute recording that I did with Jordan to discuss the new Dojo being available on start line. If you haven't checked it out already, go and have a look. If you have any problems, reach out to Jordan. Let's get these things running and linked to Ashigaru.
Catch you on the next one, and free samurai.
