Ungovernable Misfits

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AOB

• Orange man kept his promise about Ross
• Public pool went down, but not Q's BitAxe
• Max AOB

NEWS

• The 'First Bitcoin President' launches a meme coin on day 1
• SBC flop
• Mempools cleared
• Tornado cash sanctions overturned
• EFF joins the TC fight
• Ledger cofounder kidknapped
• Rumble announces wallet
• Mullvad now accepting Lightning
• 256 foundation mines a block whilst live streaming
• El Salvador revokes legal tender status of Bitcoin
• Address poisoning dust attacks
• CoinOS hack
• Tether announces USDT on Bitcoin/LN

BOOSTS
https://fountain.fm/episode/r5WmaKT4pfEQysEAB8B7

Also, thanks to all the streamers out there.
UPDATES/RELEASES

• DarkFi app alpha
• BTCPay v2.0.6
• Joltz Wallet beta
• Notedeck alpha
• Maple AI

IMPORTANT LINKS

• https://freesamourai.com
• https://p2prights.org/donate.html
• https://ungovernablemisfits.com

VALUE FOR VALUE

Thanks for listening you Ungovernable Misfits, we appreciate your continued support and hope you enjoy the shows.

You can support this episode using your time, talent or treasure.

TIME:

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TREASURE:

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FOUNDATION

https://foundation.xyz/ungovernable

Foundation builds Bitcoin-centric tools that empower you to reclaim your digital sovereignty.

As a sovereign computing company, Foundation is the antithesis of today’s tech conglomerates. Returning to cypherpunk principles, they build open source technology that “can’t be evil”.

Thank you Foundation Devices for sponsoring the show!

Use code: Ungovernable for $10 off of your purchase

CAKE WALLET

https://cakewallet.com

Cake Wallet is an open-source, non-custodial wallet available on Android, iOS, macOS, and Linux.

Features:
- Built-in Exchange: Swap easily between Bitcoin and Monero.
- User-Friendly: Simple interface for all users.

Monero Users:
- Batch Transactions: Send multiple payments at once.
- Faster Syncing: Optimized syncing via specified restore heights
- Proxy Support: Enhance privacy with proxy node options.

Bitcoin Users:
- Coin Control: Manage your transactions effectively.
- Silent Payments: Static bitcoin addresses
- Batch Transactions: Streamline your payment process.

Thank you Cake Wallet for sponsoring the show!

(00:00:00) INTRO

(00:00:41) THANK YOU FOUNDATION

(00:01:38) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET

(00:02:44) UM Health and Lifestyle Updates

(00:07:20) Ross Is ACTUALLY FREE!

(00:09:48) NEWS

(00:09:53) $TRUMP AND DUMP

(00:11:38) No SBR, No Problem

(00:12:47) Mempool Clears: What Does That Tell Us?

(00:22:31) US Appeals Court Overturns Tornado Cash Sanctions

(00:25:41) EFF Comes to Tornado Cash's Side

(00:26:17) Ledger Co-Founder Kidnapping Incident

(00:38:33) Rumble Wallet

(00:40:31) Mullvad Accepts Lightning

(00:41:42) 256 Foundation Mines a Block

(00:46:01) El Salvador and Bitcoin Legal Tender Status

(00:48:33) Address Poisoning Dust Attack

(00:54:55) CoinOS Security Breach

(00:56:48) Bitfinex Hack Documentary

(01:01:18) BOOSTS

(01:09:37) UPDATES & RELEASES

(01:09:40) DarkFi App Alpha

(01:12:23) BTCPay Update to v2.0.6

(01:13:49) Joltz!

(01:19:09) Notedeck Alpha

(01:21:36) Maple AI: Private AI Chat?

(01:31:52) QnA Drops a Sick Idea

[00:00:04] Unknown:

Bitcoin   is close to becoming worthless.  

[00:00:11] Unknown:

Bitcoin.   Now what's the Bitcoin?  

[00:00:19] Unknown:

Bitcoin's like rat poison.  

[00:00:20] Unknown:

Yeah.   Oh. The greatest scam in history.   Let's get it.  

[00:00:27] Unknown:

Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.   Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin,   privacy,   open source,   keeping your Bitcoin secure,   and the news and software updates that matter.   I just wanted to say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits   and a big thank you to Foundation Devices   for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,y,zed.   They make cypherpunk   tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports,   use the code ungovernable. It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling.  

I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the K Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features.   For those of you who actually use Bitcoin   and actually care about their privacy and security,   KakeWallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards   for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments,   and, of course,   you can use Monero.  

You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes,   use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating,   and I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com.   Download the APK   or start using this today on Mac, Windows,   Linux,   iPhone   or of course your Android device.   Enjoy the show.   Good morning, mate.  

[00:02:46] Unknown:

Hello.   How are you, sir?  

[00:02:48] Unknown:

Very well. Well, actually, not very well. I have a little mini winch. I'm sick again. I don't know if it's flu   or fucking COVID twenty eight or whatever it is, but it's fucked me right up. And the missus and the kids.   All my joints are aching.   Head is fucked.   Sweating but cold.   All that good stuff. So,  

[00:03:12] Unknown:

yeah. Pretty standard then. Seems to be. Seems to be sick more often than I'm not at the moment. Absolutely pathetic. Superfat Aero messaged me on Nosta this morning and said, should we do a whip round to get Max some vitamin c?  

[00:03:29] Unknown:

Like it. Yeah. I have actually been taking vitamins as well. I don't know what's going on, mate. But anyway, I'll I'll survive.  

[00:03:35] Unknown:

You're still on the carnivore?  

[00:03:37] Unknown:

I am. No. I broke it the last few days. Like, when I started getting really sick, I was like, fuck this.   I'm just gonna eat some stuff just in case   I'm deficient in some sort of vitamins or whatever. Did you break it with with something good?   What did I break it with?   Not really, actually.   I had one of those, like, little Charlie Bingham   ready meal   things that was a,   red Thai curry. It was alright. It was actually pretty it was pretty decent, but it was,   it wasn't, like, mind bendingly good or anything. Yeah.   But, yeah, other than that, I stayed on the carnival.  

12 and a half kilos now gone. Wow.   Yeah. But it definitely I'm I'm sure I'm sure that's probably had something to do with the sickness just because a lot of it has been, like, long fast, like, twenty four, twenty eight hour fast and stuff like that. It's just extra pressure on the body. What about you, mate? What's going on? Yeah. It's been well, personally, it's been a quiet start to the year. We're working hard at Foundation as always.  

[00:04:38] Unknown:

All hands to the pump to finalize everything for Prime to be as close as we can to our estimated deadlines.   Nothing else I can share. We're just, yeah, working toiling away behind the scenes. Nothing else I can share. It's so mysterious   about this stuff, and it's really good, but I can't share it. Oh, we we are doing a lot of shit. But, yeah, it's, it's either stuff that, you know, was part of the announcement and we're just working on finalizing it, or it's stuff that, you know, is TBC in the future. Oh. But always lots going on. Always fun and games.   Personally,   was quite impressed with I know this is not the mining show, by the way. So, John, if you listen, I apologize for stealing a little bit of your thunder.  

I know you're, the biggest Bizzacks fan at the Ungovernable Crew. But public pool went down over the weekend, which is where most people point their Bizzacks to to do kind of well, I don't know what what you classify as pooled solo mining. I know that is a bit of a a weird thing to say. Basically, you just point your miner at somebody else's node, the public pool node. They do all of the block construction, etcetera. But if you mine the block, you get 100% of the rewards. Well, I think it's like 99.9%   of the rewards. So it is Yeah. Technically solo mining. I'm sure Luke Dashwood probably have something to say on the contrary. But Oh, yeah. He was he was reply going on   with Brinkie the other day. What a weird guy. Seems to have a bee in his bonnet about public pool. But anyway, back to the story. Public pool went down over the weekend. Not really sure why, but the entity behind it was, you know, as always, is good with communication. They were keeping people up to date. But the cool thing about this story is that Bittax in within the UI, you can set a fallback   URL as well. So without me doing any import whatsoever, and it actually happened before I even realized that public pool was down, my miner just switched over to c k pool to carry on solar mining but with a different pool that does the block construction for me. I thought it was very cool. I just, you know, randomly, if I walk into the office, I'll have a quick look at the Bitac screen, just see what the best difficulty was and see whether, you know, my block reward has landed yet, which inevitably it hasn't. But,   on one of those screens, it shows the pool that you're connected to, which for me, most of the time says public pool. And I looked it, it said solo c cable. I was like, oh, okay. Interesting.  

Went onto Twitter, obviously saw that public pool was down and was just very impressed that the miner just handled it all and Very smooth. Just carried on hashing. And on the reverse, I checked it this morning, and it's automatically connected back up to public pool now, which I presume is back online. So, yeah, very slick. I was I was quite impressed with that. Because it's the preferred at all? It's the primary. Yeah. Click back on. And I to be honest, I didn't know that was gonna happen. I thought once it falls back, you'd have to go and switch it back over.   But apparently this morning it's done it itself. So, yeah. Very impressed with that. So, yeah. Thought it was a cool bit of info to share.  

Okay.   Shall we oh no. We won't hit the news, mate. We have some great news to share.   Ross   is out. He's free. And I know this seems a bit weird for us to bring up now because the previous show two weeks ago was called Ross is free.   For context, the reason that was we recorded   morning UK time when America was still asleep and Trump hadn't given his pardon to Ross, so we were still speculating.   The show was then released two days later on the Wednesday, by which time the pardon had been passed. So we had enough time to change the name, but obviously not the content of the show. So, yes, Ross is free. Long, long overdue.   Made me extremely happy, and there's been some really emotional tweets come out from his account. There was an image of him literally walking out of prison, still in his gray joggers and whatnot, which I presume is, like, his prison uniform with a big smile on his face. Then he did another a quick video just, you know, thanking everybody for their their support when he was inside. And then a couple of days after that, there was another image of him with his wife out on a walk somewhere in the hills. That last one that he brought me to tears because I thought, you know, how amazing that must feel for him to be reunited with his wife, to be not locked up in a cage, and to just be to be a free man. Like, oh, amazing. Yeah. Just going on a walk and just, yeah. Waking up in his own bed. Yeah. Seeing his mother. Amazing.  

Like, unbelievable. So this is gonna be the probably the the first and last time that I ever, give big kudos to a a president, but he kept his promise. Yeah. In fact, he went above and beyond his promise because he'd only ever verbalized that he was gonna,   I forget the terminology, the the Yankees now. But basically, it was gonna be It was like presidential pardon.   Yeah. Well, that's what he gave. He gave a presidential pardon, but he pledged to do, like, something short of that, which basically says, your sentence is finished as of today.   Whereas a a pardon,  

[00:09:15] Unknown:

I think, is like well, I know is, like, the step step further where it's just like, you're exonerated of all your crimes, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we went a step further. So, yeah, amazing to see. We were sort of saying, oh, I don't know. Like, fifty fifty. You just never know where these comes, what's gonna happen, blah blah. Like, we were sort of, like, hopeful, but not confident, I guess, would be a fair way to put it. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, obviously, we were proven wrong in the best way possible. So, yeah, fair play. And, respect to you, Trump, for actually doing that. That's very cool. Yeah. Absolutely. Normal service is now resumed, though, because,  

[00:09:51] Unknown:

we're gonna head into the news.   And the first news piece is that, president Trump, on the eve of his inauguration,   I think it was the date we recorded last, two weeks ago, launched a new meme coin called TrumpCoin.   I did very well on that. Did you? Yeah. It quintupled overnight to 28,000,000,000   market cap. Oh, no. Sorry. 28,000,000,000   is his net worth. So, yeah, he freed Ross, but then he's done a pump and dump on Yeah. On his people. So normal service is resilient and typical slimy politician behavior.  

[00:10:23] Unknown:

You would take that as the trade off. You go pump and dump. Oh, absolutely. Fair enough. Like, everyone should fucking know better. If you don't know better, you kinda deserve what comes there in a way. You take that in exchange for freeing Ross. So   still in my book, I'm like, you've done better than most. Yeah. Definitely. It's now down, like, 35%  

[00:10:45] Unknown:

over the last week or so.  

[00:10:48] Unknown:

Brilliant.   It's funny seeing people get so annoyed by it as well. I think because people put too much faith in politicians, and they're like, oh my god. They're gonna be our savior. They totally get us. Like, oh, yeah. And they just forget that these people do not get you. Like, they're from a different planet to you, a completely different world. They don't care about the stuff that you care about. They operate in a totally different universe, and it starts to hit people. And they're like, oh my god. I thought we're getting a strategic reserve, and they got Bitcoin. And, like, I thought they understood me.  

[00:11:20] Unknown:

No. No. No. Trust me, mate. They don't care. Yeah. I think a lot of the problem here and I agree with everything you just said. A lot of the problem here is that   into the lead up of this, and this actually leads us nicely into the second news item, which is strategic Bitcoin reserve turned out to be a complete flop and a nothing burger because it didn't happen.   It seems as though the scammers behind the Ripple coin have somehow got their,   tentacles into the White House and have basically been openly dissuading Trump to not do this Bitcoin,   strategic Bitcoin reserve. So they're trying to sabotage it, presumably to   weave Ripple into some somewhere into this whole kind of crypto reserve type thing.  

So, yeah, in a really unexpected turn of events, the strategic Bitcoin reserve hasn't happened yet despite many promises from the talking heads that it was a dead cert. Shock horror. I think the closest we got is that he's put together a committee to look at recommendations  

[00:12:18] Unknown:

for the crypto industry as a whole. So not exactly the, the smash buy Trumpy pump that most people were hoping for, which I thought was quite funny. It is funny. Just to be expected, isn't it? It's just such a fucking shit show seeing all these clowns come out the woodwork and fucking bullshit ripple stuff. And I'm sure that would go on for a a few years.   As we said before, just keep your head down. Ignore all of that bullshit and noise.  

[00:12:47] Unknown:

Indeed.   Over the weekend, mate, did you see that the men pulls completely cleared?  

[00:12:52] Unknown:

I did. I did see that. Catan will be a very, very happy man. He will be extremely happy.   Anyone who is waiting for fees to come down   to, do some UTXO   management, as John would say,   we'll be very happy as well. Although it's been quite low for quite a long time. Like, I've not struggled recently. It's like, I don't mind a five or six sapper buy or even a 10. But we've had it's been down to one sapper buy  

[00:13:21] Unknown:

frequently   over the course of the past well, since we last recorded, but it's never actually cleared where there was, like, not even a full block worth of Mhmm. Transactions waiting.   Open apologies for those that follow me on social media. I've been posting lots of mempool images lately, getting a bit of practice.   And a lot of people probably think this is just because I'm a bit of a nerd and I just like watching men pools, which is partially true. And they'd be right. Yes. However,   there is a a kind of subliminal message here that unfortunately most people don't seem to get in the fact that I don't think this is a good thing   at all. Like, empty mempools while Bitcoin is hovering around all time highs at, you know, a hundred thousand dollars well, perhaps not this morning because it's, come down a little bit, but around a hundred thousand dollars per coin is indicative of some worrying trends in my opinion. I'm gonna dive into them, but I wanna get your take first.  



[00:14:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, I to me, it just   seems kind of obvious that it would be like this because   I feel like   most people   do not use Bitcoin.   I'm not saying that using it as a store of value is not using it. I'm not gonna get into that whole argument. Mhmm. But when I say use it, I mean, like, transactionally   use it, be part of the Bitcoin economy,   regularly make transactions   of some kind,   actually hold their own keys,   run their own node, actually, you know, all the stuff that we talk about on this show for forever.   Yep. I just think that we are   a serious minority. I think that the majority of people are on an exchange   or buying ETFs   Mhmm. Or   massive bag holders   who maybe they do hold their own keys, some of these people, but they're not transacting.  

They're just   sitting and waiting, which is fine. Like, again, that is completely fine, but it's just it seems to be a trend. And without the transactions,   I don't know where that leaves   us long term. As you say, I don't think it's   a great thing to see personally.  

[00:15:30] Unknown:

Yeah. Cosign that. This is almost certainly   and it's hard to quantify,   but it's almost certainly driven by a proliferation of custodian usage. Right?   People buying ETFs, people just buying on exchange and never even hitting the chain. They just have Bitcoin exposure on Coinbase or something similar to that, which obviously   does go some way to pump in the price as we've seen Yeah. Yeah. But then has zero impact on the chain whatsoever because and, well and, again, that's fairly evident by what we've seen over the weekend. So that's the main driver from where I see it's kind of a worrying trend because it just means   that sovereign usage of Bitcoin is not rising as the price is. Now some people will probably say, okay. Well, that's probably not surprising. And, yeah, they'd probably be right to say that because people always take the easy option. But there's been there's been a bit of I don't know. We can probably call it cope a bit maybe where people are celebrating this and saying, oh, yeah. This is because Bitcoin's better at scaling and people are using Lightning. And   and I just don't I just don't think it's I don't think that's true. Well, it's not don't think it's definitely not the truth. Like, the Lightning Network is very small. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm looking at Mempool Space now, the Lightning Network Explorer. In the last twelve months, capacity is basically flat around 5,000 Bitcoin. Yeah. It's tiny. And channel count is down from 60 k to   45 k. So channels are down. Mhmm. Capacity is flat, but the price has more than doubled.  

Yeah. It's,  

[00:17:01] Unknown:

yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could say that there's more value being transferred because the price has doubled if you're thinking about things in USD terms Yeah. That's fair. Which most people do. You could say that, actually, there is more value   in the Lightning Network now than there was before. Yep. Absolutely, Jeff. So,  

[00:17:20] Unknown:

it's still 5,000 Bitcoin is pretty small when you consider, actually, how big this network is. There's definitely an element of truth to that. But, like, if you wanna double click on that and dive a bit deep and think, well, okay. Great. Let's let's say that some of this efficiency is attributed to Lightning. How are most people using the Lightning Network? They're using it via custodian. Custodial.   So, yes, it's,   minimizing   the impact on the chain, which we can see. But is it sovereign Bitcoin usage? No. Because they're probably more often than not using the custodian. So is it any better? It's better for me and you because we can use the chain super cheap. But is it boosting   overall sovereign usage of Bitcoin? No. Absolutely not. No.  



[00:18:02] Unknown:

Yeah. And I don't know how   that changes really because it's so much easier   now to have   sovereign Bitcoin usage than it ever was.   You know, you look at how it was   from five, six years ago to how it is today.   It is a totally different world.   Running a node, totally different world. You can buy a plug and play node that's nicely made and just works out the box or pretty much always just works out the box that's got a really nice user interface and makes everything really clean and simple. There's more guides than there's ever been in every type of format, not just text, but video and audio and everything you could ever want. There's more info. The hardware is infinitely better.   The software, well, is infinitely better.  

I hope that shows like this and others help people. Like, I don't think it's that there's not the info. I think it's just that people haven't understood   the need or just genuinely don't care, and maybe there's only ever gonna be a small percentage of people who are happy to take the personal responsibility   for their Bitcoin   with the potential   risks that come with it. Even though done right, those risks are low. They'd rather not deal with them. They say, oh, no. I'd rather have a professional do it, and, you know, that's what they do. Or, you know, Coinbase, they're I trust them more than myself.   Maybe that is just how it is, and maybe it's only 1% or 2% of the world who will ever care about things like that. I hope not, but I I kind of that's sort of what I see in day to day life is, like, if I speak to a hundred people, there's probably only one, two, three, five tops of those hundred people that I'm like, oh, yeah. You're like me. Yeah. I feel like you're like me. Maybe it's just that. I think there's a lot of oh, well, there's a couple of externalities to consider as well. Like, in most places,  

[00:19:54] Unknown:

in the world,   people are disincentivized from spending Bitcoin and and using the chain because of tax laws.   Yeah. Yeah. So people are just petrified to do anything other than buy it and hold it more often than not on exchange. But even if they do Great point. Withdraw it into cold storage, which you should Mhmm.   Then again, if some people are doing that once a month maybe or most people more than likely less than that just to kind of, you know, look after their savings. Again, the impact on the chain is is tiny because the user base is so small. So I think the externalities  

[00:20:28] Unknown:

like that just kneecap it from the start. That's a very good point because I think there are loads of people in that situation where they're going, I mean, I could pay for this stuff with Bitcoin,   but   I don't wanna do that because I bought it at $10,000,   and now it's a hundred thousand dollars. And if I buy this fucking holiday   that's $5,   then I'm gonna have to pay, and they're doing the   calculation. Oh, and then it's 30% cap gains, and then I've got to tell my accountant, and I've got to have all the and then what did I buy it at? And can I prove it? And it's just whole fucking can of worms   where even if someone can buy some Bitcoin, they go, fuck that.  



[00:21:08] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Which makes sense. Like, most people are just not of the similar mindset to many of the people that listen to this. They're just like, fuck this day. I'm gonna do what I want. Like, that's not Exactly. A common  

[00:21:20] Unknown:

thought process whether we like it or not. No. It's not common, and it's a thought process that does come with risks. And, you know, we're willing to take them on because, seriously, fuck these people. Absolutely disgusting,   degenerate,   pedo, fucking cunts.   But   you can understand why people don't wanna do it. The other thing is not everyone has access to the sort of the little mini networks that we have. Like, I know   that if I have some sats that I've earned   from boosts on the show   that then I've sent on to   Barn Miner for some jerky,   and then he sends me the jerky, like, I know I'm fine. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like anything is being reported. It's cool. It's in our own little networks, whatever. Yeah.  

But not everyone has that. So I kind of again, that's another layer to it where it's like, if you're in and around this   Bitcoin stuff enough, you start to sort of build a whole network of people that you can buy things off and sell things to. And I'll do a favor. Oh, you want some help in your website? Yeah. I can do that for a bit of some sats and   not everyone has that. So you can totally see why   things are going this way, but it is not it is not good.  

[00:22:30] Unknown:

Agreed.   Slightly more positive news. The US appeals court has overturned sanctions applied to the Tornado Cash   smart contracts.   The fifth circuit court of appeals is determined that the office of foreign assets control, OFAC,   exceeded its authority by adding Tornado Cash to its specifically designated   nationals and blocked persons list.   Quick quote here. We hold that Tornado Cash's immutables   smart contract,   the lines of privacy enabling   software code are not property of a foreign national or identity.   Meaning, one, they cannot be blocked under IEE PA. And two, OFAC overstepped its congressionally   defined authority.  

So the court has deemed basically that smart contracts are just lines of code, and they don't qualify as services or property that belong to a specific person.   And they also concluded that Tornado Cash does not own or control these contracts because the developers have relinquished any role in their operation,   distinguishing between mutable and immutable   software.  

[00:23:33] Unknown:

Amazing.  

[00:23:33] Unknown:

Which I think is is very positive news. I I don't know whether this is gonna have   any positive impact on the case.   I mean, on the surface of it, it seems like it could, especially the second point where they've concluded that Tornado Cash doesn't own or control the contracts   because that would kind of imply then that once these things were kind of set free into the world, although they were the creators of them, that there's nothing they can do to stop it. So maybe this does have a positive impact on the the outcome of the case. I hope it does, obviously.   But,   nonetheless, it's good to see that once again a three or four letter agency in The US has been told that they've overstepped the mark. So it's nice to see that there's at least some kind of legal pushback that's setting a bit more positive precedent for us. Yeah. Because I'm sure there was something where it's like,  

[00:24:22] Unknown:

even though you've now relinquished power,   you initially   set this thing up so you're still responsible.   A bit like you had a match in gasoline, and then you started a fire, but now your match has gone out and you haven't got any more matches. But you still set the fire, and so we're gonna charge you for anything   that this fire touches even though you're no longer in control of it. Yeah. It's like it was kind of like that kind of,  

[00:24:47] Unknown:

wording previously, so maybe they're rolling that back a little bit. Yeah. We can hope. Mhmm. But it's it's more positive news than it is, negative stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Hopefully  

[00:24:59] Unknown:

hopefully it helps. Do you think that has any impact on the samurai case or not so much because they were technically   not in control or or had access to your funds, but they were still actively running the servers? Does that mean that they're in a separate bucket, or could this potentially   help their case? Not lawyers, obviously. Yeah. Or retards. But Very difficult to say.  

[00:25:23] Unknown:

I guess you could draw the separation that   one run on a decentralized well, air quotes decentralized network, Ethereum, essentially,   whereas the other was a centrally controlled   server. I guess the the prosecution could maybe make that argument, but,   yeah, I I don't know is is the short answer.   Okay.   The Electronic Frontier Foundation has also joined the jumped on the bandwagon here to kind of raise the profile of this tornado cache and Roman storm.   Criminalization   of kind of privacy   and its role on effects to to free speech and stuff. So the EFF, for those that   aren't aware, are kind of like a big well, very big organization that's kind of designed around human rights when interacting with kind of software and things like that. And they've got a a pretty big voice. So to see them get behind this and start to publicize it a little bit is, is good to see as well. Yeah. Really good to see. Did you see the news that one of the cofounders of Ledger got kidnapped? This was I did. A very worrying story. Yeah. And I read different reports. They ranged,  

[00:26:28] Unknown:

between   him being kidnapped and his wife being kidnapped and fingers being severed and things to them not. And I'm not sure the full story, but pretty fucking terrifying.  

[00:26:39] Unknown:

Yeah. So it seems like him and his wife got kidnapped, which is, you know, horrifying.   At the time when this was first coming out, there was lots of conflicting stories. There was actually stories about different people at Ledger that had been kidnapped, so there was clearly a lot of confusion going around. But,   it turns out that it was an individual called David Balland.  

[00:26:58] Unknown:

Actually quite an unfortunate name. Sorry to to make light of this, but David Balland.  

[00:27:05] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, it's Balland.   Balland. Oh, okay. B a, double l, a n d. That's really insensitive. I apologize.   So, yeah, it's the usual thing. They demanded payment of a significant ransom in cryptocurrency.   And   apparently, they demanded   the ransom in Tether,   which,  

[00:27:27] Unknown:

Shitcoiners.  

[00:27:29] Unknown:

Well, yeah, which is   centralized.   And that Tether was then frozen by the people behind Tether.   So it seems that they gained nothing from this.   What an absolute mess. Yeah. Complete disaster.  

[00:27:46] Unknown:

God. So they so they got them. They managed to kidnap them. They made him actually transfer funds, but they requested it specifically in Tether.   Then they got away,   presumably.  

[00:28:00] Unknown:

I think initially, they they might have got away, but there's been, I think, up to   seven people have been arrested so far. Jesus.   But, yes, continue.   Yeah. So they they got away temporarily.  

[00:28:11] Unknown:

And then they went to go and use their   Tether,   and it's frozen because centralized. It would appear so. Yes. And they so they couldn't use it.   Wow. What an amazing   like, what an amazing   decision to make because it's obviously taken a reasonable amount of planning. Like, it's a kidnap is not the easiest thing to pull off, especially   someone who's relatively high profile.   And then to actually get them to transfer the funds   is another step, and then to then make that decision to say, no. I don't want freedom money. I don't want the money that no one can censor and control.   I want Tether, please.  

It's amazing.  

[00:28:54] Unknown:

They I don't think they could have picked a worse one, really, would they? Like, yeah, if they if you're doing Bitcoin, obviously, it's highly traceable. You gotta be very careful what you do with it after you've stolen it. Ethereum is account based, so that could be fairly trivial to, to see where that's going. But to choose Tether, which   is, like, openly controlled by a regulated business,   just   I guess it just paints the the obvious picture that most criminals aren't that smart.   Yeah. Incredible. So did they actually cut his fingers off or not? I haven't heard anything substantiated on that front, but I have seen multiple tweets from it. But, obviously, that doesn't really,   doesn't really kind of confirm or deny anything.  



[00:29:37] Unknown:

That makes me want to ask a question, which I think we sort of covered last time. And since we don't have any questions in the question section, this is me asking a question now.   What do you think   in terms of   multisig   would be a reasonable   approach for people   who   let's just say they don't wanna put their trust in   just   one hardware manufacturer. They want to have what do you call it? Multi   Vendor. Multi vendor. That's the one. Yeah. Multi vendor, multi sig.   Say they want, like, two or three or three or five.   Do you have any recommendations?  

I think you might have said Blockstream   j as one possibly. I can't remember what your what your options were.  

[00:30:26] Unknown:

Yeah. I think assuming   a two or three, this is kind of a generalization   here because it's very dependent on the individual. Right? Like, not everybody's gonna want to build their own seed signer or figure out how to use a cold card or something like that. So I'm kinda just talking generally here for most people. If it had to be three different vendors, would be Passport, obviously. Disclosure, I work for them. I help them build it. Botching Jade, again,   especially the new one with the bigger screen, they seem to have fixed we we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago. They seem to have fixed,   some of the the UX hurdles that I I kind of came up against when I tested their older device, so it would be happy to throw that one in there. Obviously, it's open source as well. And then if it were me personally, then I'd throw a seed signer in there as well as the as the third option. Makes sense.  



[00:31:12] Unknown:

So all three of those, you can use the QR scanning on as well, can't you? Correct. Yep. And I think you said this to me before as well is, like, you   could always generate your seeds   in a different method and then import them on so you could you could have, like, three passports or two passports or passport prime, but you don't need to generate your seed   with them. You could import them from somewhere else, so you could technically do that. But I always think, like, as much as I trust you guys and I trust that you guys are doing the right thing and that you're competent enough to do all this stuff, I think,   if you're already going so far   to take control of your funds and if it really is a significant portion of your wealth,   I think, like, at least throwing one other option in the mix is not a bad idea as, like, a belt and braces thing, is it? No. Absolutely not. And the cool thing about the three that I've chosen, see, SeedSigner, Jade, and  

[00:32:11] Unknown:

Passport, is that,   let's say, something happens to one of those devices.   They can all act as, like, a a backup for the other seed because they all allow you to temporarily import seeds.   Yeah. What'd you call it? In Passport, it's just called temporary seed. So other people call it ephemeral seeds. Like, that's the default way a seed time works. That's the ones. Yeah. But Jade also allows it as well. So, like, if something happens to the passport in that scenario, then you could just temporarily import that passport seed into either of the other two devices and then sign to get yourself out of a pinch. The reverse is true for any of the other devices that were to fail. And that wouldn't then  

[00:32:49] Unknown:

erase the seed off that device. Like, say, I'm doing it on my passport. I have a seed stored on there. Obviously, I have a backup plate somewhere or whatever Mhmm.   Or a card. I then decide to use the ephemeral seed mode,   use it, sign with it. It then defaults back presumably  

[00:33:05] Unknown:

to the original seed that I have on that device. It's not like it's wiping that. Nope. Absolutely right. The temporary seed is active until one of two things yeah. One of three things happens. Number one, you turn the device off. It wipes the temporary seed. Number two, you tell the device to just forget the temporary seed because you wanna go back to the original one whilst keeping the device powered on. Mhmm. Or number three, you import a different temporary seed. Okay. With all these attacks and things going on, I I think more and more about  

[00:33:37] Unknown:

what is the best approach, and I really get confused with it all, to be honest, because there's so many trade offs with everything.   I think it's quite easy to argue that actually   single SIG with   a strong passphrase   is still possibly the best option for most people,   especially if   your   passphrase   is separate and it's not something that you actually memorize   because it's kind of what would you call that? Like, a two of two Yep. Or something. Wouldn't it be? Pretty much.   So it technically   is multisig, but it's a bit more analog.   I kind of sometimes think, well, that kind of does the same job without the extra complexity   and fees   and standing out on chain. But then like I said the other day, you've got what Black Coffee was saying is, like, you can actually prove to somebody if they're about to cut your finger off, well, actually, look. I genuinely cannot do this. This isn't a multisig. I have one device. The other two are in different countries. I am sorry. I cannot do anything for you. Yep. There's a beer in the fridge. Take that and fuck off.  

Like,   that wouldn't probably go down so well. There's all these options. It really is a difficult thing for someone to think about. And, again, I think this comes down   and explains why more people are just saying, fuck that. I just have it on exchange. I really think although if someone breaks in, they're gonna make you give your password. So, I mean, that's the that's a really simple one. I think there's still   a lot of confusion   about what's gonna be best for people.  

[00:35:08] Unknown:

There is. Yeah. There is. And and even going down the the passphrase route, like, there's a lot of footguns there as well. It's not a decision to be taken lightly,   for anybody, really. And there is no one one size kind of fits all. You've really gotta consider it, test all of the different options. And I know that's not quite so easy with multisig because   you kind of need all of the devices first and foremost to do that testing. But, Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps that's worthwhile if if we're talking about your life savings here. It's certainly worthwhile.  

[00:35:37] Unknown:

Also, with the passphrase stuff, I think it was Max Tannehill shared a thing the other day because I was talking about this on Twitter, and he shared an article that showed   how strong a passphrase would be.   A little bit like the one you did on the 12 word Yeah. Versus 24 word stuff. But it was showing, like, you know, with one word, it's theirs. With two, it's theirs.   And, like, how simple it would be to break   if someone got hold of your 12 or 24 words,   how simply could they break your passphrase? And if it's, like, password one two three or, like, dog frog jade or something like that, it wouldn't be necessarily that hard. Whereas if you had something very strong, almost like, an extra 12 words or something like that, well, then   there's practically zero chance. So that's something to consider as well for people is, like, you need to make sure that your passphrase is strong enough. And the thing that I quite like about it is that you can have multiple   layers to it. So you can have Jeress ones.  

You can have multiple   layers,   which potentially   is a better   like, if you can give something if someone's about to genuinely   sever your finger, you'd be better off, like, having something where you could say, I actually can access this. This is my one that I genuinely do remember, and I will give you this, and it's enough that they leave you alone.   But I   cannot access the rest because the very long passphrase is in a safe in another country, and I cannot access it. Maybe that's better than, oh, it's multisig.   I can't do anything. And they're like, well, we've just gone to all this effort. We're gonna leave us something, please.  



[00:37:18] Unknown:

Yeah. Hopefully not your finger. Yeah. Exactly.  

[00:37:21] Unknown:

I don't know. It's a dark thing to talk about, and, like, I almost don't like talking about it, but I just feel like a lot of people   are probably thinking about this. And I think sometimes when something's so   potentially traumatic to even think about, like, the fact this guy and his wife have been kidnapped is really fucking horrifying. You put yourself in their shoes. That is a horrific thing to happen to someone. You almost don't wanna think about it. You're like, oh, wow. You know? What happened to me? You know, well, I haven't got enough anyway. Why would they bother? Blah, blah, blah. All that stuff. But it's like, actually,   this should be the thing that's being talked about, not Trump's fucking meme coin or whatever else because it seems that it is a reality.  

It's happening more and more. And   if   we believe that the price of Bitcoin continues to rise and the state of the world continues   to get worse, there's gonna be a lot of desperate people.   I imagine it's fairly trivial   for criminals to find out who you are through Twitter,   especially the loud mouths who are posting about how much they have and, oh, I'm a shrimp or I'm a dolphin or whatever the thing is and what number you are and, like, all that stupid shit you see people sharing. It's like, yeah. This is something that should be, talked about more. Agreed. Cosign that %.  

[00:38:36] Unknown:

Back to the news. We spoke a couple of weeks ago around the fact that, Rumble was gonna be integrating   Bitcoin in some way, shape, or form. Well, they've since confirmed that they're now gonna have their own wallet app called Rumble Wallet. Very low on details at the moment. It's not even been released. It was just their CEO has kind of posted some fancy looking screenshots to say that it is on the cloud. Isn't it?   I think they're doing USDT   and Bitcoin.  

[00:39:04] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:39:05] Unknown:

But, hopefully, it's gonna be lightning as well because if they   like, on chain   I know this is weird for me to say just after us talking about the mempools are empty, but, you know, Rumble is a video platform.   Presumably, you're gonna be tipping smaller amounts like on chain. It's just not suited for that. Nice. So, yeah, looking at the screenshots, it only   shows, USDT,   Tether, and Bitcoin.   How that Bitcoin balance is comprised, I'm not sure.  

[00:39:32] Unknown:

You would think. You would think. Seems to make sense to me. It would actually be a perfect   way to use it. That's the type of thing where, you know, we sat here and going, oh, well, there's only 5,000   in the Lightning Network and it you know, Bitcoin is not being used that much and blah blah blah. But something like Rumble   is massive. Like, if it started to get, like if it was easy as well, if it was like, when you tip people,   they don't even have to explain it too much. We just use this thing called SATs, and people can go in and they can buy it on their credit card or whatever they want, you know, make it easy for them, for the normies. The amount of usage it would get, I think, would be pretty massive.  

[00:40:10] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely. 100%.   This is very promising. And, you know, I said last time we talked about this, but I'm longing for somebody to knock YouTube off the tops box. I just really don't like it. Yeah. So Yeah. Hopefully, if we can get the Bitcoiners behind this and get some critical mass going with the Bitcoin   integration,   then, it stands   at least a small chance.   Talking about Bitcoin integration, Movaad are now accepting   Lightning for topping up your VPN accounts. Very nice. Yeah. It's in beta at the moment. The more hardcore amongst our listeners   might be   familiar with the fact that there was an external service, nothing to do directly with Mullvad, that allowed you to buy   Molvad vouchers   via the Lightning Network. So technically, you could achieve this before, but you were basically just you a bit like kind of Bitrefill really where, yes, technically, you can go to Tesco and buy your food, but you've gotta go through Bitrefill and get a gift card. So there was a similar sort of service for this. But now with this beta service   or beta feature, they   are doing it   directly. So you just go on, see how much you wanna add to your account, and instead of getting an on chain address, you can get a lightning invoice.  



[00:41:20] Unknown:

Very cool. I like Mullvad. Yeah. Me too. I've tried   IVPN, the other one that also you can play with Bitcoin. And I have to say, I I don't know whether it's just because I'm used to it more or what it is, but Mullvad just I just like it more. I don't know what it is. I think it's just the user interface. It's so easy and clean and Agree. Simple and yeah. Big fan. Did you see the news about Econo Alchemist on his livestream and mining a block? I did, but I'm fucking annoyed with that bloke.  

[00:41:50] Unknown:

Oh, dear. Why?  

[00:41:51] Unknown:

His long,   girly hair was covering the free samurai hoodie that he was wearing   that we designed.   He's such a handsome man with such beautiful locks. You could almost let him off. But the fact that they were just just hanging   directly down   over the free samurai bit, which had just been perfect advertising,   it just wound me up a bit. But then I thought, well, you are also making some history here, and   love for you at Uncoverable Misfits. So I suppose we'll   let you off.  

[00:42:22] Unknown:

Yeah. Let's so so a bit of context for the listeners. The Economist is a part of the two five six Foundation,   which is a   nonprofit that he founded with Rod, who goes by BitKite,   basically with a a mission to kind of push forward free and open source Bitcoin mining in all its shapes and forms. They were doing their first live fundraiser called the telehash,   And,   there was three people on stage. I'm not sure who the other two guys were. They were talking, and Iko was sat in the corner on his laptop, just nice and quiet.   And there's been some wonderful edits to this with music dubbed over the top afterwards. Maybe I've seen that one. Jordan. Jordan, make sure you grab that and put it in the show notes.  

And,   Iko is just like you can see him getting more and more locked into his laptop and his head's getting closer and closer to the screen. And he can he's like, there's something going on here. Then he just, like, stops the conversation. He's like, guys, we just mined a block. So, yeah, on on the the the telehash event, basically, they managed to raise 3.146   Bitcoin in rewards, worth at one time approximately $330,000   to push forward open source mining software. But just obviously, that's wonderful in itself. But the fact that it happened while they were on a livestream   is amazing. I think they got they've got one of these feature bit Apollo miners. And basically, they were just asking people to point their hash rate at that specific node. And I think they got up to They'd like 1x a hash. Yeah. They got up to 1.12x   a hash from approximately three fifty different entities.  

Incredible. And one of those entities   found the correct winning nonce for that block, mined the block, and the two five six foundation reaped all of the rewards. Just a wonderful story. Really incredible.  

[00:44:02] Unknown:

Well, the the odds of that are so slim Oh. With one x a hash. Yeah. That video made me laugh. It was like like you say, he's there just, like, locked in, and then the music starts to, like, scale up. And then everyone else's voices start to, like, drown out. Yeah. And it's just him, and then it's just music and him just staring and then him jumping out. It did make me laugh.   Really cool. Good to see it going to,   to that cause as well. That's really cool. Absolutely. Yeah. They're, they're doing great things over there. You see there's great stuff still happening in Bitcoin. It's really easy to, like, focus on a lot of shitty stuff and government, and country about in the space and the shills and all that stuff. It's like, it's very easy to be the grumpy old man. And you see stuff like that and you're like, nah. Bitcoin is still pretty cool. There's cool stuff happening here. Wholesome.  

[00:44:52] Unknown:

I'm looking at a picture here of I've just been diving through the the relevant tweets about this story.   And there's one here that what looks to be the screenshot of the Futurebit   dashboard for that specific device.   It says the daily's chance of solving a block is one in six with one x a hash. That seems pretty high to   me. Okay. Okay. Are you still there? Have I lost you? You've gone quiet. I just went, no. But my,   my thing was muted. So Well, I I've just realized that I'm being a dick anyway, and I think this is this is not EcoSolar, but I think this is, like, the   the overall one because it says there's 239   pet a hash, which  

[00:45:33] Unknown:

is a lot. Yeah. That is a lot. That overall thing oh, they mean, like, all future bit. Yeah. Yeah. Although I find it strange that they can see that.  

[00:45:42] Unknown:

Anyway, I do you know what? Do you know what we should do? We should let somebody who knows about mining talk about this on the Mining Show. So, John, over to you. Yeah. John, over to you, mate. He'll listen to this. He'll do a little boost and say,  

[00:45:55] Unknown:

you fucking idiots. Yeah. I'll sort this out. Don't worry about it.  

[00:46:00] Unknown:

Okay.   Lawmakers in El Salvador have   reneged on the Bitcoin legal tender status after securing   a big wad of cash from the IMF.   So this is quite sad to see, really, because I'm sure there's many people that have moved to El Salvador   probably with big fat stashes of Bitcoin thinking, oh, I can go and live the good life over there. And people you know, I can spend it literally everywhere because it's legal tender. And that is no longer the case.   Basically,   it's   still able to be spent voluntarily.   But, obviously,   that means that, you know, if a merchant doesn't wanna accept it, they're no longer legally obliged to to do so. So it might significantly   kneecap your ability to spend Bitcoin in the country.  



[00:46:46] Unknown:

But so   it's still legal tender, and people can still spend it without the capital gains and all the fuckery that stops people from spending it generally. Right? I think so. But the legal tender part means that, technically,   merchants have to accept it. They had to accept it. But from my understanding from people who went there, it still was actually a relatively small   amount of businesses and places that would Okay. Actually.   So a lot of places would still take USD or whatever national currency and stuff. I could be wrong, but this is what I've heard from people who have been. So So it sounds like the actual acceptance is gonna be even lower again now. Yeah. Potentially that it would be lower. But in a way,   I prefer that because I don't like the idea of forcing something Yeah. On a group of individuals.  

If that's the play, it's   like whatever they've taken from the IMF, like, done deal with the devil,   give us a shitload of money, and then they're buying more Bitcoin with it. And what they had to   go back on was it's not now forced as the money you have to use. It's just you can use it or you can use ours or you can use USD to sort of do what you want. I have to say, for me, I'm like, okay.  

[00:48:01] Unknown:

That's fine. Yeah. So it just seems like, basically, you can't force a merchant to accept it. I also think that there was a carve out somewhere that you can't pay your taxes in it as well now. Okay. That's a little bit more of a  

[00:48:13] Unknown:

trouble, I suppose. But is it really because then you sell, but there's no cap gain,   and then you pay your tax?  

[00:48:21] Unknown:

I don't know. Take that final piece about taxes with a pinch of salt listeners because that that was just here, so I can't find it in the,   the article I'm looking at. That'll be in the show notes. So maybe we'll have an update next week. Okay.   There's been an ongoing address poisoning dust attack   going on here that,   one of the guys from the Mempool team, Mononort, who's a great Twitter account and Nostra account, by the way, always posting some great insights,   for all things Mempool alongside our good friend Orange Surf. Yeah. Basically, he he posted this screenshot, which, again, will be linked in the show notes where there's a a picture of a transaction where a Bitcoin address that starts with 1 e u and ends in 62   has received some funds in a traditional transaction.  

So I think the way that this is working is   that   attackers   are basically cloning   addresses   that start with the same and end with the same characters. So it might be like 1   5 and then end in 62   They'll include these addresses, but they'll have a completely different middle part. So they are distinctly different addresses.   So they'll kind of produce these and then create transactions to people   with the mirroring kind of addresses so that to somebody who doesn't look deep, it's like, oh, there's two outputs here paying the same address when in reality,   they're two different addresses.  



[00:49:43] Unknown:

Oh, sneaky cunt. So hold on. So they're looking through   I'm guessing this is targeted then if they're going to It seems so. Yes. So they're targeting people,   then they're looking at okay. Like, let's say they're targeting me. Q's just paid me back for some beers and dinner, whatever.   They've gone right. Q's paid. His address starts with this and ends in this. Yep. So they mirror that, change the middle part. So because that is how a lot of people will look is just front, back. Yeah. That looks alright. And then they'll send, like, another It's just the dust amount. Yeah. So whatever that is, 450   sats or 500 sats or whatever the dust limit is. I can't remember off the top of my head now. Mhmm. I get dusted quite a lot, by the way, like, a lot. So you look at that, and then you just merge that or include that in a transaction, and then that gives them the ability to start tracking you further. That's really comfy and sneaky. Well, it's not really to track you either. So so the final part to this, basically,  

[00:50:42] Unknown:

is that   it's trying to catch people that let's say, I'm paying you back and I I I'm like, you know, I can't hold a max right now. I'm gonna go back to a previous transaction   where I've interacted with one of Max's addresses.   And   because that transaction   has paid the real address, they're both, like, next to one another in the transaction.   I might click on the wrong one and send the Bitcoin to the wrong address, essentially. Because I just do a cursory check. Oh, yeah. One e u I three slit three seven ends in 62 N G. Yeah. That's Max's address. When in reality, there'll be two in that list, and one of them is not Max's address. It's the attacker's address. More I don't understand that. Sorry.  

[00:51:21] Unknown:

Are you saying   they're hoping that   you send me funds,   They then dust with the same roughly looking address,   and then they're hoping   that I   send funds back to you, to your address, to your static address, which I'd never do, to pay you back for something in the future, but I actually pay them.   So they're actually almost like fishing.   They're throwing out a few sets here and there hoping that someone's gonna send them a larger amount.   Whereas I'd never actually do that. I go, q, send me an address, and then you'd send me a fresh address, and I'd send that to you. Or I do pay them or whatever else. Yeah. What I think is happening now, just click the bit deeper. Once the attacker has generated this clone address,  

[00:52:06] Unknown:

they're sending some SATs from the clone address   to the, quote, unquote, real address   such that that address then the clone address is then somewhere in that user's   transaction history. And if they're just really lazy and they go to try and find, you know, an address for whatever reason to to reuse it, yes, we know that's bad practice,   they might stumble across they might stumble across the clone address because the first and last characters are identical   and send funds to that instead. Instead.   People do that to, like, manage their own funds where they'll, oh, that's one of my addresses in my transaction history. I'll just consolidate some funds in there or whatever reason.   So they're sending from the clone address   to the real address   to kind of get themselves   into the the transaction history of the honest user that looks to be how they're doing it. So it's probably not actually to track people.  



[00:52:59] Unknown:

It's it's just a a phishing exercise where they're just saying, we'll throw a few pennies Exactly. Yeah. All over the place. Right. And all it takes is one person   to be sending funds back to themselves, to a different address, or to someone else, and they suddenly send a large amount, and it more than pays for everything. And so it's a bit of a gamble. Yeah. Sneaky.  

[00:53:22] Unknown:

They're doing this on an an industrial scale here. Like, the tweet that will be linked contains a transaction   that has   1,400   outputs, all dust amounts.   And,   they've all been checked to have very similar addresses active on the blockchain.  

[00:53:40] Unknown:

Have they   we'll see if any of them get paid out then, won't we? You will indeed. Yeah. Absolutely.   Interesting. And then I wonder how well they've covered their tracks because they've sent all of these out. Can this person be tracked back? Because somebody maybe who's not such a nice person might,   might get tricked by this and then send a large amount, and they might think,   no. I will hunt you down. Like, how well have they they cover their tracks before doing this? Yeah. Yeah. Possibly.   We'll see. Interesting.  

[00:54:09] Unknown:

Indeed. Yeah. It's   a lots of shenanigans going on.   So output for that for the listeners,   if you have a hardware wallet that helps you verify addresses like a passport, use that feature whenever you're gonna   send any significant amount of funds into any of your wallet addresses.   Oh, fuck. Yeah. It doesn't take long at all. Just just a simple QR code scan. The device will search against its own list of internal addresses   and check that your software wallet is being honest and that the address that you just scanned, whether it's displayed in Envoy, in Sparrow, mempool. Space, whatever,   it checks that it controls that address. If it doesn't or it can't find it in its own list of addresses, you'll see a warning and then you know that's an alarm bell. Don't send some funds into that address. That would catch   completely   for this type of attack.  



[00:54:55] Unknown:

Underrated feature that one of the best features   you can have on the hardware device that,  

[00:55:01] Unknown:

verifying the addresses. Yeah. Definitely. And and with a passport, it's like sixty seconds all in. And that includes you finding the device, turning it on, logging it in, scanning the QR code, the device searching. Like, it's it's literally 60 all in. I always use it. And every time, I'm like, ah, good. I feel better.   Yeah. It's just peace of mind. Like, yeah, if you're if you're using it regularly and you're just gonna throw $25 in, fine. Okay. Maybe be a bit lax and don't go and dig your hardware wallet out. But if you're gonna do a $5,000   transfer, then, yeah, definitely take take the time to go and do that scan. A %.  

The custodial service, CoinOS,   came out, a couple of days ago to say that they've had a small   compromisation   where some users have lost funds.   It seems to be that   the attacker was able to gain access to password resets for certain users.   They haven't disclosed how that this has happened, but based on they were enabled   to withdraw some funds.   They've said that they're gonna make any of the affected users whole, so hats off to them for that. And, that the vulnerability has been patched so that, you know, this is no longer an an ongoing   attack. Reason I included this wasn't to kind of dunk on CoinOS   because they've been a long standing custodial option that I know some people do use. But it's more to just, again, raise another red flag for custodial   Bitcoin   usage. Like, you are putting your funds at risk because you're putting your trust in whoever it is that runs CoinOS. Now they may be a wonderful individual with great morals, but if, you know, like as just happened, if there's a hole in their code that allows somebody to drain funds, it might not always be a case of the CoinOS people are gonna make you whole. You might just be completely shit out of luck and your funds are gone. Mhmm. So self custody is very, very important.  



[00:56:49] Unknown:

This makes me think,   the other night, I was flicking through Netflix with the missus. We were like, oh, I'll just watch something for, like, twenty minutes before we go to bed. My kids were actually asleep. We were like, oh, let's just watch something. We're flicking through and that Bitfinex   hack documentary   came up. Yep. What an amazingly   weird like, every part of that story is so   weird.   It's just like red flag after red flag after red flag. I'm like, I'm sure these are fucking spooks. I'm sure there's something where the government's involved in this, but I can't exactly   see where.  



[00:57:25] Unknown:

And then have you seen the documentary? I haven't. But is this the hack? Was it, like, 2016?  

[00:57:31] Unknown:

Around then. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was. I think it was, like, the summer of twenty sixteen. Give us the give us the TLDR for me and the listeners. It's so interesting. Anyone who's got Netflix, go and watch it. I haven't finished it yet. Bitfinex hack,   4,000,000,000   gets stolen or was 4,000,000,000 now. At the time, I think it was, like, $750,000,000   or something like that. Everything gets taken.   They're trying to track it. No one can make sense of it. Obviously, like, it's a large scale hack, so you've got whatever different agencies   all on it, but they can't trace this stuff. It starts getting moved   a couple of years ago. You start to see, like, some of these things peeling off, and on chain analysis are trying to, like, track it down.  

And, eventually,   it starts to be traced back to this couple who are the weird honestly, they're so weird Oh, she's the rapper woman. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I am familiar with this. She's like a rapper. She's incredible. I mean, she should have just stuck to rapping because there's no need for that. She's so good.   And then, like, her weird husband   who, like,   doesn't I don't know if they're really together because she seems to have these other boyfriends. It's it's all fucking really strange.   But everything starts to get tracked back to them. And what they were doing is, like,   setting up all these different accounts   with all these different exchanges   and selling small amounts.  

And so all of these transactions are starting to be tied back, and the agencies were like, what the fuck? Like, we were expecting this to be like a proper criminal organization.   Like, you know, we were thought it was gonna be something different. This is not what we expected.   There's so many weird things about it. But what I was saying to my missus is, like, in the documentary, they say it's like, oh, well, it's impossible to   spend or get rid of Bitcoin without being tracked and traced. And, obviously, it has to come back to a centralized entity because that's the only way you can sell it. And I was like, well, that's not true. Why is the FBI that's nonsense. Like, why does someone who has the ability to hack Bitfinex for $4,000,000,000   worth of Bitcoin   not understand that they could spend this in   a way where they don't have to actually put their fucking passports   on all these centralized exchanges   and then sell Bitcoin.  

Surely, if you're technically capable enough to pull that off,   you also are technically capable enough to know that that will be tracked and traced and that those details will, at some point, be uncovered, and you will get arrested.   There's things like that where just the whole way through, I'm like, this can't be real. The like, these people   have to be feds.  

[01:00:11] Unknown:

Yeah. That sounds like a pretty wild story. Was it Aila Lichtenstein?   Is that the one? Is that the husband? He's Russian. The fella. Yeah. Or was it somebody Morgan? Maybe. I can't remember. I'll have to watch it. He's Russian, and she's American.  

[01:00:28] Unknown:

She seems to be like a sociopath.   He, I think, is like just an Uber nerd,   good with computers.   And,   yeah, it's it's just fascinating. They're they're so strange, and there's so many parts of the bit where I'm just like, this just makes no sense. But, anyway, yeah, it did highlight again. Bitfinex was probably one of the biggest at the time, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. Definitely.   You know, it was massive, and   they found a a way in. And there's, like, videos of her talking about   before the hack. She's like, you know, that you'd be surprised that,   even some big organizations have some pretty big holes in their security. And, you know, I'm not gonna say names,   but, you know, some pretty big holes out there.  

And then it's like then it gets hacked.  

[01:01:14] Unknown:

Oh, god. Yeah. Yeah. I'll definitely have to check that one out. Yeah. That's interesting. Right. Shall we hit some boosts?   Let's do it. Now Jordan's been a bit lazy today, listeners. He hasn't sent me the usual   filtered list. He basically just said, yeah. Go on fountain and get it yourself, you lazy twat. Can't get the work. I've clicked on the link as well. Cool. So we'll go from the top. Well, there's gonna be a few from us in here, Max, because anytime that we tweet about the show, it'll filter into this list. So we'll have to do some Okay. Filtering as we go. But, I'll kick off with Late Stage HODL. 15,000   stats. Thank you very much. Cheers to another month of teaching me colloquial terms for if I ever visit The UK. If I need to go to the landfill, then now I know I just need to ask for the tip.  

That's matching cute.   What other what other colloquialisms   can we teach our American friends?  

[01:02:06] Unknown:

Well, on that, you'd you'd do tip or dump, wouldn't you? Some people do dump. Yeah. And a dump is also a shit. Yep. That's true. Oh, yeah. We're good at double meanings for words as well, aren't we? Yeah. So you could take a dump, which would be taking a shit, or you could take your shit to the dump, which would be taking your things to the tip.   Yeah. English is fucked, isn't it? It's so weird. There's so many double meanings to everything. Can't think of anything off the top of my head, but we'll we'll keep informing you every two weeks. Just tune in. Yeah. I always like the fact that an eggplant  

[01:02:39] Unknown:

is really an aubergine.  

[01:02:41] Unknown:

Yeah. There's loads. Do you know what, like, it's disgusting. I don't know if they do it in America as well, but, like, we call a pepper here, like peppers.   Over there, they call them capscums.   What? I didn't know that. Yeah. When I went to Australia, my mate was like, yeah. You don't want any capscums? I'm like, what the fuck is a capscum? I'm like, capscums. And, like, showed me. And I was like, you mean a pepper?   So the I don't know if Americans probably do the same thing, whereas some retarded,  

[01:03:06] Unknown:

name for it. But, yeah, a lot of things are just named different here. Yeah. Cilantro was another one that got me when I first went to The States.  

[01:03:13] Unknown:

What was? Cilantro.   Cilantro.   Is it a drink or something? No. It's coriander.  

[01:03:21] Unknown:

Yeah. Cilantro.  

[01:03:24] Unknown:

It's very strange. They have some issues, don't they? Yeah. They like putting zed whenever you're slow, don't they?   Yeah. Z.   Yeah. I've got used to saying z because,   I say it now on the ad read, for you guys because you got xyz. X y z. Nice. And xyzed   just somehow   now just doesn't sound right even though it is right. I've said it so many times that I'm just like, fuck it. I'll just lean into this. It's   foundation.xyz.   Fine.   I can do that then.   FOMO chronic with 10,000   sats.   A little smiley face with an exclamation mark. Thank you, mate. Anonymous with 10,000 sats.  

[01:04:04] Unknown:

I'm zapping you ladies even before listening to the pod. Ross is free.   Yeah. That's definitely reason for celebration. Thank you for the sats.  

[01:04:12] Unknown:

Yeah. Thank you.   Shadowy badger. Oh, it's a good name. I like that. Shadowy badger. Oh, a badger here, by the way, obviously, is an animal, but a badger is also like somebody who's a bit fucking annoying or pester you with questions and stuff all the time. Badgering me. Yeah. You fucking badger. Now that Ross is free, can we please get back on hashtag free samurai train? Every episode,   every tweet. Yes.   Yes. It's been a bit quiet out there. I like to think that we, as the Ungovernment Misfits crew, try and cover it as much as possible, but it's been a bit quiet out there. I'd like to see   more conversations.  

So   agree with you, mate. Free samurai. Never stop talking about it. It is,   very important, and they are sorely missed. 1000000%.   Yeah. How different is just Bitcoin Twitter without those guys?   I really miss just, like,   the brutal   respond. I really like, so many people are like, oh, it's so unnecessary and blah blah blah. And I'm starting to think more and more as they're gone. Like, do you know what? It was necessary.   The brutality   that came out from those guys   was necessary because people really needed a slap when they're leaning hard into custodial shit and wanky nonsense. They just needed   Always like you needed to fear. It's like a a slap from a grandparent. It's like, no. Shut the fuck up. Like, that's what it was. I really miss it. Yeah. Hopefully, they'll be back one day. I,  

[01:05:44] Unknown:

Yeah. I I did like spicy Twitter. It was good.   Chill now. $12,222   sats. In the oversaturated   BTC podcast market, these two cunts from Ungovinable Misfits   provide a healthy dose of realism for retards that is solely lacking elsewhere.   For for a couple of limey poems,   the real use examples, a focus on privacy, and a heap of levity   make this actually enjoyable to listen.  

[01:06:12] Unknown:

Who fucking ray. That's a great, great boost. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much, mate. Doesn't it feel nice when you hear that? Like Even if he did call us a limey palm. No. I like that. I like that if you don't have the little bit of abuse, like, he's called us cons, he's called us limey palm, he's called us retards.   So you get that. But then there's also all this lovely   I like that there's a bit of a mix there. Otherwise, it's too sweet. Sweet and sour. So thank you. Yeah. And till now one, it looks like you've sent that twice. So thanks for the double sats. We, we appreciate it. He just really meant it.   Who's this cunt? Oh, there you are. Q and a. This episode was going to be called, is Ross free yet? So fucking happy that we had to change that before the release. Enjoy, folks. Today is a good fucking day. We've got one from John, two thousand one hundred sats. Forgive Frito two x. He's new to podcasting two point o.  



[01:07:09] Unknown:

I have zero context here. I I'm guessing did Frito boost is on the last show?  

[01:07:14] Unknown:

Maybe.   And I think he's fired up his podcast again.   I'm not a % sure. John, you can, fill me in when we next chat, but I I believe he started his again. He's a good guy. I like Frito to let you Who's what's his podcast?  

[01:07:29] Unknown:

Not familiar.  

[01:07:31] Unknown:

Oh, now you're fucking testing me, mate. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Me and John will talk about it on the next one. Sounds good.   Me doing a tweet.   Pies.   Haven't started listening yet, but I'm sending   the rest of the stats I have on fountain to   motherfuckers.   Mhmm. Let's fucking go. Boyaka Boyaka, guns, biz,   Mushroom, strong-arm. America equals number one.   England   equals shit. I jive pies. I fully fucking agree with you. England is a shithole.  

[01:08:07] Unknown:

B with 400 sats. Orange man kept his word. Actually went beyond with a full pardon, not just commutation. That was the word I was looking for earlier. That's it. Thank you, b. Yeah. Agreed. It was a very good day. It was, best day of 2025   by a long shot so far. A %.  

[01:08:25] Unknown:

Pies again.  

[01:08:26] Unknown:

Oh, it's the same tweet again. And again below. What's going on? And again below. I'm guessing Fountain might have had some issues on this day because we've got, like, five duplicated,  

[01:08:36] Unknown:

boosts. Do you know what it is? Sometimes with fountain, like, you try and do boost, and then   it's like, oh, error or, like, an error sending or whatever. So you try again, you try again, and it's probably doing that, and then it's actually working. Like, it's throwing up the air, but it's actually working. So he's probably gone, oh, fucking hell. That's not worked. I need to let them know that America's the best and the England shit and there comes   all that stuff. So he's pressed it three times, and then  

[01:09:02] Unknown:

he's paid us three times. So thank you, Pies. Last one from Kiwi Limon. Let's cheer up that Ross is free. Yeah. Absolutely. I agree. Thank you as always to all of your boosts, and thank you to all of the streamers out there. Once again, love seeing the two sats   filtering their way into my Zeus wallet each and every time one of you listens. So, yeah, appreciate you all. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Much appreciated.  

[01:09:26] Unknown:

I've lost now our little notes thing. Where has it gone?   Are you sending it to me?  

[01:09:32] Unknown:

It's in the Telegram. I'm just, pulling up a link for the next one.  

[01:09:36] Unknown:

Got it. Right. Here we are. Done, boost. Updates and releases. Right. With you. So Amir Taki, who's a prolific  

[01:09:43] Unknown:

developer on Bitcoin and Banero, I believe, has released at last the Darkfy   app alpha release.   So Darkfy,   in his own words, is the world's strongest anon chat, fully unlinkable, tour integration, full free speech,   cross platform for mobile as well as laptop, Linux, Android, Mac, and Windows.  

[01:10:05] Unknown:

So this, Am I Go on. Am I being a cunt to feel like that sounds a bit red flaggy?  

[01:10:13] Unknown:

Yeah. I think no. I don't think you are being a cunt by saying that that sound red flaggy. If it sounds too good to be true, more often than not, it probably is. I hope I'm wrong. Yeah. Me too. Me too. We I think we we spoke about this maybe a few months ago, and,   somebody shoved it under my nose and said, talk about this. And I went to look at it. It was like, yeah. Just, if you wanna try it, just compile all these binaries and jump through all these hoops. And I was like, nope. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember. So somebody,   I forget who it was on Nosta this morning, has basically, again, shoved this under my nose to say, look. They've got an app now, so go and test it. But it was literally a couple of hours ago. So I haven't had try time to try it yet. But,   it looks,   as   UX pleasing as as it sounds by using peer to peer chat over dark IRC chat network, whatever that is. It's a super alpha app. So, yeah, tread carefully. Maybe don't do all of your drug trades on it just yet.  

But, yeah, it's you know, the the claims are very promising. So it's something I'm gonna add to my   check this out when you are not a busy fucker time.  

[01:11:19] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, I mean, if what you read at the beginning there turns out to be   right and if it's usable, that would be incredible. Like, it's very much needed.  

[01:11:30] Unknown:

Yeah. Let me dive a bit deeper. We could have taken easy route, which every other project is doing. Most projects do this. You centralized hosted web front ends, an insecure and buggy centralized browser wallet to interact with apps,   make separate phone wallets for Android and iPhone, laptop and desktop is an afterthought,   zero command line support for APIs, blah blah blah. And then what you say, what we did is we ditched the browser completely. We make a single unified app platform,   the same app for all platforms,   extensible and customizable UI and themes by users, and add on infra so that apps can be run on all platforms, distributed fully peer to peer without hosting centralized   website front ends.  

So, yeah, seems promising.   Again, all of the technical stuff is gonna be linked. There's loads as you're in a very, very long tweet that goes into all of the gritty details if you have too much time on your hands and wanna read it. Mhmm.   BT Pace Server version two point zero point six has been released, which just contains a fix to prevent duplicate payouts in certain on chain configurations.  

[01:12:34] Unknown:

I have some more info on this. Okay. Very rare that this happens. But here we are. Interesting.   Seth was telling me on the recent Monero monthly, which was was recorded   a couple of days ago, it'd be going live soon, that   they had actually   patched and done whatever work was needed to make   the Monero integration   work properly. And he was just giving them a massive shout out because people were really worried and, like, there was a lot of work that had to go into it to now make things work again. And   they did it themselves.   Apparently, they put their own team on it. They worked really hard on it and got everything working for the new version two point o six. The guys at Cake did, you mean? No. At BTCPay.  

Oh, cool. Yeah. So he was just saying, like, just giving them a big shout out because they didn't have to do it. It's not something they would normally do, but,   they put their own team on it. They put in the hours, did everything, and it was something that people in the Monero community were like, oh, who's gonna do it? There's a lot of work here. They're trying to raise funds for it, and BC Pay stepped up and did it. So just a shout out and and thank you to them. Awesome. Yeah. Great project. Great people behind it. Love it. New release,  

[01:13:50] Unknown:

something called the Joltz Wallet, j o l t zed, The world's first self custodial wallet for Taproot assets   is now available via test flight for Apple devices with Android soon to follow. So this comes as a part of a joint announcement where Tether have announced last week that USDT   would be returning to Bitcoin as a Taproot asset, bringing the world's largest stablecoin   to the Lightning Network.   Sounds like a lot of bullshit bingo.  

[01:14:22] Unknown:

You gotta tap that ass.   I just yeah. That just my brain just goes to a big fog there. I'm just like  

[01:14:30] Unknown:

So yeah. Some more quotes. For those not familiar, Taproot assets developed by LND,   Lightning Labs, enables assets like stablecoins   to be natively issued on Bitcoin and lifted into the Lightning Network for instant low cost payments that inherit the full security of Bitcoin. No bridges, no side chains, just native Bitcoin.   But any game changing protocol needs a user friendly way to interface it. Enter the Jolt wallet.   I'm left with   more questions   than answers I am here. I mean, the wallet looks great. Nice simple UI. They say it's it's self custodial   for Tether. Now I guess this is a Tether problem and not really a Joltz problem. Right? But as we spoke about earlier, if the Tether people can just freeze any Tether assets   at will,   is is it really self custodial?  



[01:15:21] Unknown:

It so you're putting Tether on the Lightning   Network   somehow by some whatever fuckery.   My guess would be Tether can freeze   assets on Tether   at will, but they wouldn't be able to freeze   tethers on lightning   because   that is then   I'm guessing the sats that are passing on the lightning network are sats. Like, that's the unit, and they're doing some sort of fuckery to call SATs tether, and somehow there's some sort of exchange rate or some I don't know how they do it. Yeah. But, presumably, once it's on the Lightning Network,   you can't then freeze it because   it's on the Lightning Network.  

I don't know. Obviously, above my head. But,  

[01:16:08] Unknown:

Yeah.   One to watch. One to watch. I mean, don't get me wrong. Like like, I think we've said this before. Like, we personally have no interest in these stablecoins, but clearly people   millions of people across the planet do because Tether is   one of, if not the most profitable company in the whole world. So people are using this shit, and they're using it on Tron and all all that other crap.   So I guess it can be seen as a positive that they're bringing it into the Lightning   Network. Mhmm. Again, remains to be seen how kind of easy and simple that's gonna become and what they you know, what the trade offs are gonna be. But, again, I'd rather than do it on the Lightning Network than push people towards Tron.  

[01:16:45] Unknown:

Do we, though? Is there any sort of,   like, so above my head and understanding, but are there potential drawbacks to   starting to bring   stable coins onto the Lightning Network? Does it   cause any bullshit regulatory   stuff that now there's   technically dollars   moving on the Lightning Network?   Do people running Lightning nodes then have to get some sort of bullshit   money transmitter license shit. Do, like   my question is, does it open the door   for   these vermin to come in   and start fucking with   what we're building?   That's my concern because I'm like, there's no part of me that goes, oh, yay. There's, like, tether on lightning. I don't give a fuck.   I actually don't care. Like, if people wanna use tether, then fine. Use it on Tron. Seems to work fine. Use it on what other network seems to work fine. Like, I don't have an issue with it. Use dollars as they are in the shitty banking system. No problem.  

But once you start to bring that old financial system with all this regulatory bullshit and all the accounts attached to it into   the Bitcoin   system or lightning system.   Like, what comes with it is my concern.  

[01:18:00] Unknown:

Fair.   Yeah. Fair. And I guess not something that we can answer right now, unfortunately.  

[01:18:05] Unknown:

If anyone knows, you you know, we have some really smart listeners who know all sorts of, stuff from the traditional systems Indeed. We do. Like,   legal stuff and everything else. So if if you're one of those people, maybe reach out and let us know. Maybe in the normal question sections,   that's our question to you listeners. Maybe you can answer that for us.  

[01:18:25] Unknown:

Yes. Please do.   I've just been clicking through some links related to this.   And there's another one here from yesterday. Tether   made 13,000,000,000   in clean profit in 2024.  

[01:18:38] Unknown:

Profit. It's mad, isn't it? Fucking hell. It's so much money. It's such like a a I say simple, but kind of it is simple what they do. It's gotta be one of the best businesses in the world. Yeah. Don't they employ, like, 50 people as well?   Yes. I don't know how many, but it's a very small team. Jesus Christ. Very simple. They just do one thing.   Like, it's,   fair play to them. Like Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Know any of them. Yeah. I don't know any of them. I don't use it or anything, but fair play. You're killing it. They very much are.  

[01:19:09] Unknown:

Onto the nostalgia shell part of the show.   A piece of software that I've been waiting a long, long time for has finally been released as an alpha.   It's called NoteDeck, and it's built by Will and the team that already produce the Domus iOS   client.   NoteDeck is   basically the same as TweetDeck, which basically   allows you to have, like, multiple   feeds or columns open so that you can browse multiple things on Nostra at the same time. So you can have, like, a a universal feed. You can have your home feed where your followers are. You can follow hashtags. You can look at your DMs. You can have your notifications   all in their own separate columns on a singular page. Very cool. And considering that this is Alpha software, I had a quick poke around this morning. It's very slick. They've done a very, very good job. And, you know, it's probably gonna become the default way that I interact with with NoSTA, particularly on a desktop environment. They are planning mobile   versions of this, but I'm not really sure because, obviously, it's a much smaller screen,   the benefit of that. Obviously, I'm gonna test it when a mobile version comes out, but, this really shines when you go onto, like, tablets  

[01:20:17] Unknown:

or, desktop screens for me. Did you used to use TweetDeck on Twitter Yes. In the early days? Yeah. I still use it now for for,  

[01:20:25] Unknown:

foundation stuff. Was it good? It was good. Yeah. Is it good? Again, it's just so it what it means for me is that I can have my q and a accounts, my q and a DMs, my q and a notifications. So there's three columns. And then Mhmm. Although I don't do much on the foundation account, it's it's not me that does all that tweeting. I I do sometimes help out. I can have all of that sort of stuff open as well. So I can rather than me logging out of one account and into another and then clicking on notifications, like, it's all there on a singular screen. But you  

[01:20:53] Unknown:

you can on Twitter just click in the top left on a phone at least and then Switch account. Through your separate accounts and stuff. Yeah. But it just means you don't have to do that. Correct. And so that would be the same on this, this Nosta one. You could have multiple different ones open. Yeah. That's kinda  

[01:21:10] Unknown:

nice. Same for you for, like, you know, you can have the ungovernable account. You can have your your max account, like, all all open DMs and all that sort of stuff and, yeah, not have to do much context switching. So definitely worth a try.   The only caveat, in fact,   is that right now, you have to paste your nsec in to use it. So if you're not willing to do that, maybe hold fire and hope that they add something like Amber support or nsec bunker or something like that. Okay. Final one. I threw this in just for you, Max. I know you're an AI maximalist.   Have you heard of this new piece of software called Maple? It's an AI chat tool that allows you to have private conversations with a general purpose AI assistant.  

Chats are synced automatically between devices so you can pick up where you left off.  

[01:21:56] Unknown:

I have heard of it, and I haven't looked into it too much. But I believe it's, like, encrypted   so that you're not leaking   any information anywhere, which sounds amazing, but I've not looked into it to check if,   if that's right. And do we know is it using   the same models as, like, ChatGPT or one of those, or is it its own separate   thing?  

[01:22:20] Unknown:

That is a good question. I don't know which model they're based on. They may have communicated that. I'm not sure. But, yeah, the kind of two headline pieces here and the reasons that I've included them is number one, if you choose to do a paid tier, you can pay in Bitcoin.   And number two is, as you alluded to, Max, that it's kind of way more private or claims to be way more private than most of these other AIs, where basically everything is end to end encrypted right down to the when it runs on the hardware on the GPU that's kind of running the AI assistant.   Mhmm. Open question, I guess, for me is how you would actually verify that that, you know, it's it's not just getting decrypted when it gets to the, you know, the the final the end state. Maybe they've they've communicated this. I'm not sure. But  

[01:23:05] Unknown:

They have a little graphic saying encrypted at every step. Nobody can read your chat,   your chats but you. And then it has your device   encrypted at your device, and then that's sent to a secure server. And then from the server,   it's encrypted again, and that's sent to the a AI cloud where they're running whatever model they're running,   presumably, the same way back. But, yeah, I I get what you're saying. How do you verify that? Yeah. That would be one question. And then the second question for me is, like,   what models are you using? How powerful is it? Because   some of this stuff, like, I've tried a couple of bits, you know, for, like, image generation. I've tried   different options to Midjourney,   and   they're just shit. Like, part of it is, like, Midjourney keep banning me,   and keep, like, flagging me and stuff for my image generation.  

So it's really frustrating when I'm trying to create because it keeps putting these blockers up, and I'm trying to find ways around. It's it's frustrating me. And, also, it's very expensive.   So I've been looking going, oh, maybe there's one I can use and pay in Bitcoin, and then I can use that. And at least then I'm spending Bitcoin rather than, dollars, and that'd be better. But they've just been shit. And then the same where I've tried other options to ChatGPT,   I know chat GBT is,   not gonna be private in any way and all that stuff, but it's fucking good. So if this thing is as good,   then   I would certainly look at changing.  



[01:24:37] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, they do have free tier. So maybe you can go and test it out and, provide some feedback   and, see how you get on. And, again, don't quote me on this list, but I'm pretty sure that this is built by the   ex mutiny guys. They formed a new company called Open Secret, didn't they? And I'm pretty sure that this is their handiwork.  

[01:24:57] Unknown:

Okay. And you actually get a discount for paying in Bitcoin as well. I I failed to mention. I've just found that out now as well. So seems pretty cool. Well, that's pretty good. Alright. Well, I'll, I'll do some testing. I'll do some testing on, like, is this good at answering questions and doing stuff? And then maybe   you or someone can have a look to see, can we verify   Yep. That it's encrypted at each stage? Because I think that's a massive problem. Like, as you lean more into AI, and that's something I'm finding I'm doing more and more. Like, I'm researching things. I'm getting it to write emails for me. I'm doing, like, all my fiat fuckery   stuff that I have to do in life. I'm like, oh, just fuck it. Just chat.  

Get that done. Like, just here's what I wanna say. Wank that up. Make it all the.   You know?   Do you know what I mean? Like, you just have to,   and it just does it. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm leaking so much information about myself, which is surely gonna be stored somewhere. They can pretty much build a profile on me. And I think about that a lot. I'm like, that's definitely not a good thing. So if that hole can be plugged where you can still have all the upside, which the upside is so good for me,   especially being a dyslexic fuck, that I just go, I'll just accept that they have a profile on me because it's it's saving me so much time. Like, it really actually makes my life so much more livable. Mhmm. But if this thing's $20 a month paid in Bitcoin and it's as good,   yeah,  

[01:26:23] Unknown:

let's go. So just to cap this off, just click through a couple of their blog posts.   The server code is open source with a link to the GitHub, and they use something called confidential computing to provide a cryptographic proof that the code running on their servers   is the same as the open source code that's available for review on GitHub. Technicalities of how they do that, I've got no clue. But sounds like they do have some checks and balances in place so that clever people can verify their claims. Sounds almost like a like a range proof or something like that. Yeah. You can verify  

[01:26:55] Unknown:

that the code is running like it should be without actually  

[01:27:00] Unknown:

seeing the code or something like that. Indeed. Indeed. Yeah. I don't think they do image generation just yet there, mate, unfortunately.  

[01:27:07] Unknown:

That's okay. I I'm fine. I'm fine using that. It's you know, I'm more worried about it writing emails and more personal stuff and me researching things I need to research in normal life. I'm more worried about that profile than me making images for the show. Yep. You know? I don't really care about that as much. So that's okay. Yeah. Absolutely.  

[01:27:28] Unknown:

The pricing is pretty reasonable as well.   They got a free tier that gives you 10 chats per week.   A starter,   is paid yearly,   $64   if you pay in Bitcoin.   And then if you go to the pro, it goes up to $216,   but it doesn't actually clarify what the difference is between in terms of usage. It just says that one's a starter, one's a pro. But   seems as though could be worth, you know, $60 just to give it a try. You can actually pay monthly as well, of course. Yeah. Similar sort of cost to the ChatGPT stuff, I think, as well. Nice.  

[01:28:01] Unknown:

It's not not dissimilar. What's this other one as well that was all over Twitter,   the Chinese one?  

[01:28:07] Unknown:

Oh, it seems to have broke the Internet and the stock market at the same time.   God. What's it called?  

[01:28:13] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm not sure. I don't I don't stay as on top of the AI stuff as perhaps I should. Name escapes me. But, yeah, that was sort of fucking all over the place. I DeepSeek. That's what it was called. That's it. But, yeah, I I didn't test it because I was just like, I'm not not fucking around. Definitely not.   Yeah. Like, that's you don't want your information out there anywhere, but that's probably the place you least want it. Yeah. So Yeah. Just give it all straight to the CCP.   But, yeah, I I mean, the AI stuff is interesting.   I think who was it I was speaking to about oh, Gabriel Custodia I was speaking to, the other day about some of this stuff and how much of a problem is   this information leaking. So it will be interesting to see   how Bitcoin fits into this and paying for   more private models   or models that work in this way where it's, like, encrypted up to their servers and clouds and then back down and all that kind of clever stuff? Or do people start to actually run   their own   at home or in the cloud and you pay to have it running the cloud, like, however it's done. My guess or, like, what I would like to see is   people actually having their own models   where it starts to learn   a little bit about you and hold information about you, but only you hold it. A little bit like Yeah. You push this really far out. It's like Jarvis   with Iron Man. Mhmm. You have, like, an assistant that knows you. They know everything about you. You control all the information. No one else can access it, but you're not going out to, like, a random model that everyone uses   and asking it questions. Then it's like it needs to ask you things  

[01:29:56] Unknown:

it just already knows. That would be what I would like to see. I think as as it gets more and more optimized, we'll definitely gonna move into that type of world. I think we're probably a long way off yet because, you know, generally speaking, you need some powerful   computer locally or you just offload it to, like, the Google server or something like that and then accept all of the privacy trade offs. But, I think we'll definitely get there. I've been poking around. I've got I've got, Llama installed on my Start nine. Okay. It seems okay. It's nowhere near as quick as as, like, ChatGPT or something like that. But it's been able to, like, answer most of my questions and do all of my, like,   like, email formatting and stuff like that for me fairly easily. Quite funny, actually. As soon as you hit enter on on the the query,   you can just hear the the little desktop computer I've got next to me just spin up as it as it's, like, working through.  

But in fairness, as soon as it's finished, it's giving me the answer, it spins back down again. It's silent again. So  

[01:30:51] Unknown:

pretty cool. Well, maybe there comes a point where   people start to run   larger, more powerful computers at home or just large   cloud based ones where you can pay in Bitcoin and they're private,   however that works. And you do just start to have, like, all the virtual home stuff that you're getting into Mhmm. The AI stuff, your Bitcoin node, and everything that's attached to that, your own chat services,   and blah blah blah. If you have all this functionality   and all these applications   that can run-in   a more sovereign way, then someone's gonna be much more likely to say, I'm okay paying a hundred, hundred and $50 or whatever it's gonna be to just have a computer that's this powerful Yeah. Rather than, like, right now, people are probably like, yeah. I don't think it's really worth it. I'll just, like, outsource this stuff. But as these applications get more powerful, I think it's gonna be a little bit more normal where people will go, yeah. I'm happy to do that. I would be. Yeah. Agreed. It's just early days. You know you know what? I want a subtle idea, and it's perfect for something like Start Nine. I want a personal AI  

[01:31:59] Unknown:

that   does chain analysis on my own wallets for me.  

[01:32:04] Unknown:

Oh,  

[01:32:06] Unknown:

I like that. Here's a wallet. Here's all my addresses. Obviously, you can see that because you're my node.   I want you to go and give me, you know, a a weighted privacy score for all of them. Tell me what you know, give me some insights.  

[01:32:18] Unknown:

Where do they come? Yeah. How can you trace back? That sort of stuff. That's really nice. Yeah. And because it's private, you don't have to worry about it. It's on your own node. I mean, that would be a really good way to like, you're basically auditing yourself. Yep.  

[01:32:33] Unknown:

Someone clever go and build that place. Yeah. Yeah. Would happily pay a a bounty. Yeah. Definitely. Right, mate. That's the end of the list. We have no questions because the listeners, must still be in Christmas mode. So open call. Yeah. Please get involved in the next show. We love answering your questions,   particularly the kind of, you know, stuff around privacy and using Bitcoin and CoinJoints and Lightning Network and all that sort of stuff. So if you've got any burning questions, feel free to to leverage Max's expertise.   He has quite a lot   of   it.  



[01:33:05] Unknown:

Yeah. We look forward to that. And,   thank you to everyone for all of the boost. We appreciate you, and we will catch you on the next episode.  

[01:33:15] Unknown:

Free samurai.  

[01:33:16] Unknown:

Free samurai.