In this episode of the Confab podcast, I am joined by Gabriel and Urban from the Watchmen Privacy podcast. We jump into a wide array of topics including the nature of psychopaths, the concept of death cults, the implications of AI, Bitcoin, and real-world security. Our conversation also touches on the importance of privacy and security in today's digital age, and how individuals can take steps to protect themselves. IMPORTANT LINKS
Be sure to click or tap on the chapter images if you are interested in the episodes Gabriel mentions throughout this podcast. And if you think you would find their course material valuable be sure to visit:
HTTPS://ESCAPETHETECHNOCRACY.COM
And if you want more information about the podcast and episodes visit:
HTTPS://WATCHMANPRIVACY.COM
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(00:00:41) BOOSTS
(00:04:34) THANK YOU FOUNDATION
(00:05:45) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET
(00:06:43) The Super Computer Under Denver Airport
(00:09:49) Physical Privacy and Security Concerns
(00:18:35) Digital Privacy Solutions
(00:25:01) Escaping the Technocracy: Courses and Solutions
(00:30:07) Understanding Psychopaths in Society
(01:07:31) Technological Threats and Historical Parallels
[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to another Confab episode. In this episode, I was joined by Gabriel and Urban from the Watchmen Privacy podcast. I've always appreciated the work they do over there, and we had a really interesting discussion covering psychopaths, death cults, AI, little bit of Bitcoin, and security in the real world. If you haven't already checked it out, you can click the link in the show notes to go to Escape the Technocracy. This is a course that they've been working on very hard for the last sort of six months to a year to help anyone who's interested in having more privacy and security. There is a code ungovernable that will get you a discount. They discuss this in the podcast.
This isn't a shill fest or a sponsorship or anything like that. I don't get anything from it, but I do know that these guys have worked hard on it. They know what they're talking about. And if you take this stuff seriously, it's definitely worth having a look at. Before we start the show, I wanna say a huge thank you to everyone who's been boosting, sending in sats, sending in XMR chats, and every other way that people have been supporting the show. I'm gonna read the top boosts from the last confab with Sir Spencer, Sir Chad Farrow with a hundred thousand sats.
Let's go. John with 21,420 sats. Look forward to getting to know you, Sir Spencer, in the Mestradell. You'll find after time that this group is much more than how Max typified it, not just a Telegram group. Yeah. I know. Sad face emoji. It's so much more. But sometimes we like to undersell and overdeliver. Rod Palmer from the Bugle News. Twenty one thousand sats. Bitcoin podcasters don't make plans to get together with normies. Fundamentals with 21,000 sats. I recently learned of the bowl after bowl podcast when they had Auggie on it. Loved it.
Who doesn't love stoner friendly Bitcoin podcasts? Poe Jan Meeze, the unpronounceable cunt with 10,000 sats streamed. Shadowy badger with 7,777 sats. Sick episode. Also, I figured out why eight Mithrandir always boosts 7,777 sats. It's because seven is the only number apart from zero that has two syllables. He's basically using the number to increase his time spent on his boost stage. Nice one. Try 77,777 next time, mate. Bitpunk FM with 4,242, boosting for PO boxes. Kotongan with 4,200. I think there's some hardcore bowlers who would be happy if the show went as long as Red Bar. Like, if they were eight, nine, ten, eleven hours. Could you imagine the post production on that? I don't want to imagine it.
Chill now one with 2,222. Sat Max, great discussion on v for v with the wolf, but you're still a cunt. So Spencer, bringing plebs together over value, sovereignty, hyperlocal, and above all, distrust and loathing for government. Beautiful. Right. That's the top boost. Thank you to everyone who's been boosting. Thank you also to Dave, Pleb to Polymath, Ian Vaughan, Wartime, Pyze, Bitpunk, and Cyborg. I really appreciate everyone who's been boosting and also everyone on the XMR chat. Thank you for supporting the show. I'd also like to thank our sponsors for supporting the show. Thank you to Foundation. Foundation make my favorite hardware, and they have something new coming very, very soon. They're working hard to bring out the new Passport Prime. It should be here in April. And if you haven't already checked it out, go back and listen to the Confab that I did with Bitcoin q and a and Zach.
They've built an open source platform that anyone can build apps on. The first app is actually gonna be built from Cake Wallet, our other sponsor. So I'm very excited to see that. I had one of these in my hand the other day when I went to Ben Gunn's, and it's really fucking nice. I'm excited to get my own. And if you haven't already seen these, go to foundation.xyz. Use the code ungovernable. Don't think there's any discount on these, but they will be on the original passport. So just try it anyway. It might do it. I still need to ask you and a about that. But foundation.xyz. Use the code ungovernable or click the link in the show notes to get a discount.
I'd also like to thank Cake Wallet for supporting the show. As I said, they're now gonna be bringing out the first app on this Passport Prime. It's gonna make it so much easier for anyone who wants to use a hardware signing device for their Monero. They also make it incredibly easy for anyone to use Bitcoin or Monero, connect to their own nodes, use spending tools, buy gift cards. Anyone who's actually using their Bitcoin and Monero should have this in their toolbox. If you haven't already checked it out, go to cakewallet.com. You can download and use this on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, Android, I think everything. You can use this on everything. So if you aren't already using it, try it out and join the 500,000 plus users that already rely on this.
That's it. Enjoy the show. Welcome back. Both of you together, Gabriel
[00:06:48] Unknown:
and Bob Lazar. Nice to have you back. Well, if I knew Urban was gonna be here, I I may have made other plans, but nice to see you, Max. Yeah. Very nice to see you.
[00:06:56] Unknown:
He snuck in. He saw the link and just thought, I'll be on this. Yeah. I thought, oh, there's a link in my inbox. I might just join in. No. It's nice to be with you. Long pass overdue. I I know we we planned this a few times, and it didn't for the three of us. Finally, we we made it happen with me being a bit late. I don't think it's gonna be worth it for the audience, but we'll see.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
I think it will. We got a lot to talk about. There's lots of weird stuff going on, and I also feel like there's a lot of stuff that's not being covered in a lot of the other podcasts. And I'm trying to get more people on. Like, I had a suspense around from bowl after bowl a couple of episodes ago. So trying to get people on who I respect what they're doing, and I've always respected what you guys do and trying to help people be more private, trying to help people be alert and be aware and not just listen to the same old bullshit all the time. So I'm sure we've got a lot to cover in this one. Absolutely. We're happy to talk about all sorts of things, alien abductions. Under Denver, there's a supercomputer run by the government that we should probably get into. Privacy stuff, Bitcoin Monero, artificial intelligence, you name it. Let's start with the easy one, like the Denver Airport. Yeah. Let's let's cover that in detail then. Go on. Yeah. So underneath the Denver Airport, there is a supercomputer that's going to render everything that I say in this episode about encryption and everything else completely irrelevant. So just remember that. Okay. Remember that and just shut the podcast off now because it's irrelevant. Yeah. Encryption doesn't work. You know? It's all pointless.
[00:08:19] Unknown:
Of course, if there was not this computer in Denver, then it would be all fine. Right? Okay. But because it exists, then it's game over. So yeah.
[00:08:29] Unknown:
But assuming they shut it down, you're gonna be fine. So maybe just listen to this episode, apply the advice, and hopefully, they should, and it's gonna be all good. Let's hope. Well, one of the things outside of what's going on in Denver that I wanted to cover don't really wanna go into too much Bitcoin stuff. We cover so much of it on the show anyway. Like, most listeners are relatively technically competent already. I wanted to get into some of the stuff that's outside of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency for people who wanna get some more freedom, separate themselves more from the state, allow themselves some more privacy, just not be swept along with everybody else. I think a lot of people come in, they find Bitcoin, and they're like, oh, I know how to secure a private key, and I know how to send a transaction. And now I'm a fucking cypherpunk, and I'm untouchable. And, like, some of them stay in that kind of delusion, and then others are like, okay. I've got a taste for some type of freedom and power, and I want more. And I know both of you guys go into a lot of this stuff, like, in the physical world or different ways to secure your data, the AI stuff we talked about a little bit, which would be one I'd like to cover because I'm starting to use it more and more. You wouldn't approve of how I'm using it at all, to be honest with that. I think a lot of people probably in that situation.
[00:09:47] Unknown:
Be cool to learn some tips and tricks. Where do you guys wanna start? Well, the one thing that I think a lot of people miss, especially if they're tech savvy, is they forget the physical privacy, and that's why I always start with that. And I do think it's important to consider who knows where you live and how often you're giving out your address and your real name, and you're having people scan your IDs because that's definitely a threat to many people, not just if your somebody comes in and tracks you down that you don't want at your house, but just the sheer amount of real life data that you're giving to your mechanic and to your rewards for your supermarket, things like this. You really want to be a minimalist and to really tamp down the physical threats. You just need to stop giving out your information and be aware of these things. That's why this is kind of the thing I talk about most or I try to talk about most certainly in my book and otherwise is physical privacy because I do think that is key. I find that a lot of people, you know, they have their battle station that they're sitting around and their three monitors, and they're like, yeah. I'm using CoinJoin, and I'm sending Monero now back and forth. Nobody knows anything. And then you get a knock at the door from Sally who knows exactly where you live. So that's also a threat, and I think people really need to be cognizant of that, especially in a world where we have all these crazy hate speech laws, especially in Europe where you have psychopaths still, ex lovers, and all these sorts of threats to our physical self. So that is something I think a lot of people need to step up on. Just today, I read the news that an ex lover traveled around
[00:11:10] Unknown:
700 miles
[00:11:11] Unknown:
to set on fire the house of his competitor. I but it was the ex lover. So ex lover, you know, drive 500 miles and then just set the house on fire as revenge. And that's something that you can have all the encryption in the world, but then if someone comes at your door, the threshold now to have someone showing up at your door is very low. You know, from the ex lover, the weirdos, you know. Asians in San Francisco have crime problems because they have a house that on the outside identifies them as being Asian, and they're more likely to be stolen from because they have higher net worth. There's all these sorts of things that you need to really consider. Right? You know, what kind of political things do you have outside your house? Would that potentially make you a target? Do you have creditors who might come and knock on your door? There's a lot of reasons why you want to be doing what I'm doing, which is I don't know what my address is. I've never seen the address of where I am right now. I don't have any packages sent here. I don't even know what the address is. So that is incredible peace of mind to have that physical privacy, and that allows you to do your battle station stuff and know that utility is not in my name, all this sort of stuff so that if you do slip up, you are still pretty protected. So that is a huge thing that I'd like to see more people do who are into digital privacies, get into physical privacy. Michael Bazell has a good book, Extreme Privacy. He talks about this stuff, and I have a book. I talk about it. But, yeah, that is a priority that people need to have. Also, recently in The United States, you had these break ins of these famous athletes. They have a game that's going on. There was a group of, I think it was, Chilean gang that went around just robbing from athletes who were in the middle of a game. How do they know where they live? Well, there's all kinds of ways that when you buy property, it reveals who you are, and maybe you've mentioned your house on Instagram or something. All these things build up a profile on you. And whether you're famous or not, it can have consequences. There's so much information out there. All the social media stuff, and you put your address on so many forms. As you rightly said, like, you can have these psychos or ex lovers and things like that. And sometimes it's both at the same time. And then you have the real psychopaths, which is the government, which always wants something, whether it's money or more information or whatever. And these hate speech laws in The UK are fucking
[00:13:11] Unknown:
scary. Not too far from where I live, there was a guy going around the other day with a massive knife going to different schools. He put a knife to a girl's throat and was trying to rape her. Young girl, complete fucking psychopath. They let him out. They just went, nah. You're alright. We'll let you out again. But if you say a mean thing, you can spend years in prison. I was gonna say, Max, don't don't mention don't mention any details about this person or or we might have to
[00:13:38] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:13:40] Unknown:
How dare you. That poor person. You're painting them in a bad light. It's fucking mental. And so when you know that you're dealing with that sort of stuff, you're absolutely right. Your physical security matters more than anything else, and people are very willy nilly with it. It's almost an afterthought. I guess a lot of people probably need to sort of start from fresh because there's a level where it's okay. A lot of people have your address, and it's tied to you in all these different ways. Like, a big example, perfect example would be like the ledger league. That'd be a perfect example. Okay. That's not good. You have now some group of people who could do you harm, who know you probably have some cryptocurrency
[00:14:18] Unknown:
of some form. They know your name. They know your address. They can turn up at any time. That's a fucking huge problem. What do you do? Well, you probably should move. No. Exactly. So you have people at home. They're thinking, oh, I've got let's say you order your ledger. Now as you said, there's your name and there's your address, and it's attached to a Bitcoin transaction. Obviously, the state sees that, but also if there's a leak or a breach, that can also be exposed. There was literally a group of people in The United States who went around tracking down data just like this and other breach data from crypto exchanges, and they were going and torturing people based on this information. And one lady, I remember this, this has been seared into my mind. They were holding her at gunpoint, and she had lost so much money from them before that that she asked them to shoot her. That's how discouraged she was. Oh, yeah. I heard this. But and they didn't, though, did they? They didn't. So we had an entire episode on this how using a KYC crypto exchange can get you tortured on watchmen privacy. It's super important to realize that you just shouldn't be sending things to your home address, especially not crypto related items because there are consequences to that. That's why one of the things that we created on escapethetechnocracy.com, Urban created a backup kit to replace the need for these titanium seed phrase kits so that you can print it at home. You can purchase it in Bitcoin or Monero, and you can print it off and laminate it and have a way to have this useful backup tool without having your address and name attached to that transaction. I remember you talking to me about that actually, Evan. It was a nice idea of that. Yeah. So when we see how people lose their Bitcoin, Bitcoin, their crypto, and let's say they lose their password in general since you don't want to talk to me about Bitcoin, which is fine for us, it's usually because they forgot. It's not because
[00:15:51] Unknown:
the house burned down or they lost the paper or they didn't write. One of the thing that we preach is rather than having one backup made out of titanium that you bury in your garden and then you forgot where you put it, have three copy in cheap laminated paper hidden in your whatever you think is fit, and that's gonna be more robust than the one Titanium. And as Gabrielle said, you know, when you ship those items, then it's associated that, oh, you have crypto or you're interested in that. And if you buy Titanium, then it means you might have a lot. And, you know, you spoke about Ledger, but to give them a bit of a break there, one of their executive got some serious torture going on in his hand. I think he got mutilated. They definitely also were on the receiving end. And this is why privacy is just crucial. Like, it it is very, very important. And, you know, yesterday, I had to pay someone in cryptocurrency. They send me an invoice. I pay, and then I say, okay. Please can you send me another invoice for the other thing that I must pay you? I was playing, you know, the naive person. The person was like, oh, why do I need to send you another address? Don't you like the one I sent you? And I said, well, I've heard that hacker can know how much money you have. And then, his answer was no. The account is not in my name. You know? It's a ledger. And I said, I know, but, you know, it gives a false sense of security. That is really, really horrible. So if you put all of this together, then you end up with, you know, gangs targeting people. And this lady, in this case, she was targeted first by online scammers because they knew how much money she had. And then she got targeted by physical robber that came into her place. And this is when she said, you know, she was so mad at this whole situation that she said, you know what? You might just won't shoot me because I don't want to live this. They didn't. I think they left her. They kind of had pity, but still, this shows you that it's just, like, insane. It's really scary because you see this clear risk. And then on the other side, you know, all the good tools are shut down or stopped. People stopped using them because they were scared. So it's really not an issue. There's the risk of personal attack, which is the risk of
[00:17:50] Unknown:
personal attack, which is the risk of the individual, but what I see beyond that is there's a real risk that if people don't start to learn and do things properly, they just go, fuck it. Do you know what? There's so many attacks. I'm so scared of actually taking control of my own life and my own privacy that I'm just gonna buy an ETF because put a fucking gun to my head then. That's not a problem. No one comes to your house and puts a gun to your head and goes, send me your fucking Tesla stocks. That's not happening. So that's why people need to talk about this stuff and be very clear about it and give good guidance because otherwise,
[00:18:25] Unknown:
people are just gonna be like, fuck it. I'll just own an ETF because I no longer care about what Bitcoin Bitcoin really stands for, and I'm not capable or can't be bothered or it's too much risk. Yeah. So just to give some solutions here for people. Let's say that they want to do the right thing and they're gonna buy the foundation passport. Well, see if you can track these guys down at a live event, a conference, or something, buy it there. No association to your address or just take out some kind of postal box or something like this. Have it shipped there or ship it to a friend's house or get permission from somebody, but you could have it shipped somewhere else. Pick it up there so that there's no attach. There are simple solutions. You just have to recognize that. What I do is I say, look. Under no circumstances am I typing or speaking my the address of where I go to sleep at night. And so when I make that statement, I say, okay. Well, I have to find solutions. Okay. So how am I gonna get this? How am I gonna get that? Can I make use of Amazon drop boxes? And we don't suggest buying hardware wallets from Amazon, but for other things, can I get a PO box or something like this? Can I ship it over here? Can I do this? Can I just buy more things in person? There are simple solutions. You just have to make a stand, and then everything will adapt around that. If you say, I'm not giving my real email address, then what do you do? Well, you get a Proton account and you have multiple email addresses, and then you start to use simple login. So you have the ability to give out email addresses on the fly. And in general, you just don't give out your email address to just anybody. So there are solutions. You just have to set the groundwork, and then you will adapt around it. That's how I operate with privacy. It's a good flag in the sand. This is something that will not be crossed. That's a good way to look at it rather than trying to flippy floppy,
[00:19:51] Unknown:
this would probably be alright. And then you get creative, and then you find all kinds of solutions, and then it becomes fun. It becomes fun at that point. Yeah. But also, don't let the perfection be the enemy of good. Look at, for instance, PO box. Let's say you're like, you know, in my country, I cannot open a PO box without KYC information. Now you might feel like, oh, I shouldn't do it. But if you think about okay. So now you have a company that has your real address and your real information. Right? The PO Box company. And then you have the hardware wallet manufacturer that has your PO Box address. Now you need to leak two database, and you need to somehow stitch those two information together. In the case of ledger, hack or the Trezor, any data leak, then it's your PO box. And maybe by the time you can just change PO box It's like a physical VPN, basically. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. In a way, it's like this. So you should not let the perfection be the enemy of good. Because sometimes I see, like, some of our competitors in the privacy tutorial space, they say, oh, you know, they they go this hardcore mode, and they take the black pill. And we're like, no. No. No. No. No. This is already a huge improvement over the previous situation, you know, because now your data is at two different location.
Even if the company knows who you are, it's it's split the the responsibility. And you can always change PO box. You know? You could rotate them if you want, if that's your time. So this would be less of a problem. And those are some of the stuff that we go in-depth. But, yeah, I mean, I have to say it's it's really it feels like the whole world is just becoming way more oppressive. You know? You had the Telegram CEO arrested. Not just crypto. You know? It's like the entire thing is becoming more oppressive and hardcore and very dystopian
[00:21:26] Unknown:
to to say the least. But it's important not to yield to it and get to, like, I don't like the black pill stuff where it's, oh, well, we just all fucked. Just fuck it. I'll just roll over there. That's not cool. Having these guides and what you're doing with escape the technocracy and allowing people these steps that allow them to take back control step by step and inch by inch. Like you said, it doesn't have to be perfect.
[00:21:49] Unknown:
It's just slowly get better. Like, are you more private than you were yesterday or the week before or the year before? And if you're going in the right direction, you're doing better than most. And another solution talking about creativity, I know you have a hardware wallet sponsor, but I personally don't really use a hardware wallet. It's optional. Right? People will say, oh, you have to have one. Well, you know, you don't or you could have better operational security on your computer or you could just use a GrapheneOS phone that you have, a cheap Pixel phone, just for, let's say, backing up your your keys or a nice little offline computer that never touches the Internet. So there are also solutions. And if you purchase one of those devices, that is absolutely just a regular purchase. There are solutions like that as well. Or build a seed signer. There you go. Seed signer. The other option because that's off the shelf part. There are certainly options.
[00:22:33] Unknown:
I think with stuff like that, it ranges from, I'm not gonna tell a 60 year old boomer friend who has no technical chops at all. I'm not gonna say to them, yeah, build an offline computer rather than use a PO box or a business address of a friend to have hardware that's specifically designed so that you don't fuck it up. I would never suggest that to them. I'd say, no. Use the hardware. Don't even try it. But someone who's much more technical, then they're in the position to say, oh, no. I'll build a seed sign or I'll build this offline computer or I'll use graph whatever it is. Don't try and do stuff when you're a retard. So that's kinda what I try and do. Fair enough. I think it also depends, as you said, on your pro efficiency. But considering the cost of having to face a physical attack and and someone showing up at your door, consider going to a conference and buying. Often, they have discounts. You can meet other people in that space. You know? So consider just taking the nearest
[00:23:25] Unknown:
conference to your place and just buy it from there, and that's valid. Most manufacturer, they will have some kind of place where you can buy it marketplace of the conference, and that's it. I think it's a very valid option to do. But let's be honest, Max. Bitcoin, Monero, this is boring. This is boring stuff. I hope that I never have to think about these things again after this conversation.
[00:23:45] Unknown:
So do the basics, secure
[00:23:47] Unknown:
your stuff, but it's just a means to an end. But what's the end, Max? What's the end? Well, for me, it's just to be left the fuck alone as much as possible, to have as little interference in my life from people I don't want there, mainly government and councils and all the shit around that. I'd like to find a way to fuck them all off as much as possible. The technocracy. Yes. Exactly that. That thing. Exactly that. I think that's a lot of people's goal eventually. A lot of people are so busy, their head down, scurrying around that they don't really think about it. People are like, oh, I wanna make money or Bitcoin's gonna go to this value, and I'm gonna be rich. It's like, what's rich? Are you actually wealthy if you've got money, but your family's still threatened because you're in a home that you've given all your details away to, and the government's fucking stamping all over you for all the taxes in the world. And you're in that sort of situation where you're always up against these fucking demons
[00:24:43] Unknown:
who are just sucking the life out of you. I would argue you're probably a lot more wealthy if you have less money, but you have more freedom and privacy. Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants. That's Mhmm. Epic tettis. Absolutely agree. Bitcoin and Monero and these sorts of things are useful tools. Let's say use them when you can. But the real stuff, the real juicy stuff is everything else that's happening and how that allows you to have this freedom in your life and have your family and explore other things. Right? One of the things that we've done on Watchmen Privacy is we just started exploring all kinds of other topics. We're into AI. We're talking about what's happening in South Africa. They just passed an expropriation act where basically the government can take anything at any time. Amazing. Right? Or as it's called in Africa, Tuesday. And there's just all kinds of other interesting things happening in the world. Bitcoin and Monero use them as the tools, but there's so many other interesting things out there. Should we just talk about briefly what you're doing with Escape the Technocracy?
[00:25:40] Unknown:
I know it's been evolving since you guys first spoke to me about it. I know you've been adding more chapters or courses or whatever you would label it as, but it seems to be pretty wide ranging. How many sections have you got in there now? So the website is escapethetechnocracy.com.
[00:25:55] Unknown:
We set out to have a marketplace where we could sell, broadly speaking, privacy tutorials. It's evolved from there and to allow people to pay Monero and Bitcoin and Fiat if they want and have minimal data collection, we just need an email from you, basically. And so it's amazing how few places just stores like that exist. So we've been practicing what we preach along the way, and what we sell is video tutorials. We also have some books on there as well. And we're just teaching people how do you get on to Linux. We have a great Linux tutorial in our main course. Mhmm. And then what is Internet privacy? What does that consist of? How do we use our VPNs and our Tor and all the rest of it? And we kind of hold your hand, but we do kind of get advanced as well. What does ProtonMail do for us? How can we use things like Madera and Bitcoin in a sovereign way? How can we use AI in a sovereign way? So our main course now has eight modules. We even have a course a module on escaping the food technocracy. And Urban poked me. He was like, yeah. Let's do this. Yeah. Absolutely. Talking about seed oils, talking about getting your good pans and, you know, distilling your water and all these sorts of things. So we just have a module on that. So we're talking about the technocracy built large. Mhmm. That manifests in all kinds of ways. Right? Like, on my show, I talk about psychopaths, Not something that a lot of people talk about. So I'll talk about psychopaths, and then we'll talk about what's happening in different parts of the world, how AI is woke, and it's leading us in this bad direction, and how to uncensor it. So we have an entire course on AI as well. And we talk about this stuff for free on our show, so I don't want people think that we need to come by ourselves. We have AI course. We have a general privacy escaping the technology course. We have a Bitcoin sovereignty course. I think that's probably the best thing for you or to recommend somebody to get into using Bitcoin in a sovereign way, especially post Whirlpool. That's a really dynamic course. And then we have one on cybersecurity. We talk about cybersecurity a lot, how to hack proof yourself so you can lock down your normal life, and then you can do all these other normal things. That covers the gamut of what we discussed. There's kind of something for everybody, and our philosophy is always how do we give out minimal information? How do we be sovereign with our data? Mhmm. K. We're not trusting this third party antivirus. We're not trusting these other things. We have different solutions. We have the sovereignty mindset
[00:27:50] Unknown:
baked very deep down into our philosophy and our recommendations. And like you said, you're already talking about this stuff. You're putting that information out on the podcast. People can learn about this stuff already, but this is just a way to refine it down and hold people's hands, step things up. I see that as, like, a value for value. It is a lot of work putting out podcasts and all this stuff that you guys do, and you need to pay the bills. So this is a really nice way of doing it
[00:28:16] Unknown:
and giving value back to the people who are listening. Of course, it's a way for people to contribute if they like the show. And, also, we talk about stuff we don't talk about on the show. That's just inevitably what happens when you're trying to make money on a show. You also get to the point in a podcast where you talk about all the interesting stuff in the first ten episodes. I've noticed this about me. I'm like, oh, I really wanna talk about these things. So in the first twenty episodes, you've kind of covered everything you wanna cover. Mhmm. And then after that, you start pursuing minutiae. Right? These last readouts of minutiae. And then by, like, episode 1,000, it's like, yeah. We're talking about this super, very specific kinda thing. Yeah. And somebody who's just coming in at that point, like, what what is this show about? Right? Because they're not gonna go scroll back all the way to the beginning. So I have started diverting. If you really wanna mainline all this stuff, the best thing to do, of course, is to follow a course that has been carefully structured through dozens and hundreds of hours of research. And Urban himself has a background in cybersecurity and all this good stuff as well. So he's the technical adviser. So you're in really good hands in following one of these tutorials. And then you can go to the show and kind of, hey. Let's talk about this random topic and this interesting thing happening in the world. And I just had an episode on Soviet economics and how that attempted to work from an expert on the field. So we just kind of go in weird directions on the podcast these days. Mhmm. And then the big stuff, the fundamental stuff is on the escape the technocracy website. Cool. Well, I'm gonna put a link to it in the show notes, obviously. It's well worth taking a look at and And we have a code Oh, do you? Ungovernable. What does that do? That's going to get them 25% off in the first few days. Oh. And then after the first few days, after this hits, it'll be at 15%.
[00:29:45] Unknown:
So either way, you'll get a good discount, but you do wanna act on that. Okay. Very nice. Go and do that. Listen to the show. Support the show because there are very, very few shows out there who are actually putting out good content that actually matters and isn't sponsored by lying, cheating, cunts, part of just a big circle jerk wankfest. So if you want these sort of shows to stay around, go and support them. Psychopaths. Can you talk to me a little bit about that episode? I missed it. What did you go into there? Is it, like, how to avoid them? How to work out if you are one?
[00:30:16] Unknown:
Well, if you are one, then I don't have a solution for that. Okay. Frankly, I don't think you care if you are one because that's the fundamental attribute of a psychopath is that you don't have a conscience. And this is a biological designation. Right? This is a a reality. This is you're missing certain chemicals in your brain that allow you to have empathy. That seems kinda like a small thing or it's like, no. It changes your reality. Suddenly, you cannot look at others as things in and of themselves. So you can't follow the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You can't follow the non aggression principle. You are literally incapable at a biological level of comprehending these ethical systems.
And so what do you do? Like, what is the alternative? There's some really interesting things that happen when you can't conceive of things outside of your own psyche. You don't have a good sense of the future, so you have immediate gratification. You don't have any sense of love or attachment to others. So what do you do? You pursue power and coercion. As you can imagine, these people, this 1% of the population approximately, they get into positions of power, and they go to war with countries when they do. And they're at the top of corporations, and they're telling you that their stuff is not toxic when it really is toxic. So these people have fundamentally altered the course of history. Look throughout history, whether it's Stalin, Pol Pot, you name it. These people have altered history because of their ability to be ruthless. They essentially have the biological benefits of being able to be ruthless. This is a alternative human. I wouldn't even call them human. This is an alternative species. Lizards. Yes. This is a predatory species, and this is not even conspiracy. Right? Go read a book called Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us. Psychopaths are one percent of the population. They commit fifty percent of serious crimes.
This is a very serious thing. And so in my episodes, I'm talking about why don't we understand this? Why has this been confused? And what happens when we not only understand psychopaths, but we apply that to the world? It changes our view of history. Suddenly we look at governments and we say, oh, they're literally incapable of doing things in our interest. So that whole facade of progressives and such, oh, you know, at least it's some greater good. No. It's not some greater good. That's like an impossibility. The psychopath cannot conceive of the greater good. They're doing things just for their amusement, just for their pleasure. It really does change the way you view the world. I remember the first time I read a book on psychopaths. I was in the library. I was like, you know what? I moved into a corner and so I could see everybody in front of me because it was a disturbing
[00:32:31] Unknown:
paradigm shift of how you understand the world. Suddenly, one in a hundred people that you interact with on any given day is not a human. It's very high. This person sees you as prey. This is how psychopathic experts talk about them is they are the predators and you are the prey. Mhmm. That is their biological role in the world. It's very high 1%. When you think about that, you go through your day and you interact with a hundred people or you see a hundred people, like, one of those people is a predator. They have absolutely no empathy for you. They will just do whatever they can to take and get power. That's a disturbing thing because also they're good at it. They get very good
[00:33:07] Unknown:
at tricking people into thinking that they're nice and that they're normal and everything else, and then so it's you never know when you're dealing with one until it's possibly too late. Well, that's exactly it because another characteristic of these predators is that they have a different brain structure. They are able to lie and have a certain charisma in a way that we can't. So they lie. They say things. When they speak, it is to make people, the person that the the prey that they're speaking to, it's to make them feel good. It's to make them feel something. That is how their brain operates and everything they say they're gonna lie to you, they're gonna tell you this and that, and you'll get little hints, right? You'll get little hints along the way if you're perceptive. But what you don't realize is that you're not talking to a human. You're talking to somebody who is manipulating you in certain ways. They're amazing chameleons. You might say, oh, I would recognize a psychopath, you know, a mile away. No. You wouldn't because they're so charismatic. They're the leader. They're the ones saying all the right things, but they're saying exactly what you want to hear and their brain is designed to do that. They are the top apex predator in the world, and they have all the advantages in their corner. For example, there have been a lot of psychopathic serial killers that go after women. What has been noted is that they strategically targeted women women who they noticed were insecure. They had this instinct. Okay. I'm gonna go after the insecure woman and I'm going to flatter her. I'm gonna do all these things. And these serial killers who have dozens of bodies to their name, they've done precisely that. And they're very strategic. And you can only imagine the woman is approached by this man who's confident and who's saying all the right things and all this kind of stuff, how she could fall prey to that. It's a very disturbing thing to recognize the psychopathic charm. There's a psychopath expert and she says, I liken the psychopath's charm to other attributes of predators in nature where they're just they kind of overwhelm you and overpower you and mesmerize you in a certain way, like the snake looking at you. Or that fish, you know, the ones that's right at the bottom of the ocean, right where it's dark, and they have, like, that little light that goes out in front of their massive jaws and and teeth. They lure the prey in and then they've got you. It's like that. Exactly. That's it. And we don't realize that we're those fish looking at that light because we think that the politician or the corporate leader or whoever or the person in our life, you know, they're just, they're a little bit different. And here's another thing about psychopaths, you it's not curable. It's not a curable disease. It's not a disease necessarily. In fact, the psychopaths think that you're the one with the disease. Why are you so empathetic with these other people? Why can't you make these tough decisions? Why can't you go through life and just get rid of your emotions? Your emotions are tying you down. You get depressed. You get attached. All these sort of things. For the psychopath, it's strategic.
Oh, no. I don't want this person. Done. Never talk to them again. Never talk to them again. Oh, I need to fire 10,000 people. Done. Easy. No guilt whatsoever. They sleep perfectly well at night. There are some interesting studies that have been done where they will have a psychopath and a non psychopath, and they will tell them, hey. You're gonna get an electrical shock in a few seconds. And they study the brain patterns for the psychopath, perfectly normal. Nothing changes. For the regular person, they have anticipation, a build up. Their brains are completely different. They do not react to the world the same way that we do. And they are the apex predators and they have been winning this war against humanity for all the time. And the decision making skills are gonna be better because they're not tied down by this emotional worry and all that stuff. They're just thinking clearly. Yeah. That's weird. And then what the fuck do you do? Like, you know, we have a kid that's one or something like that. And This is where I'll be careful about giving psychological advice, but my understanding is that this is not a treatable thing. So if you see something like this in your life, you've got to go and talk to somebody and get all the information
[00:36:29] Unknown:
because this is going to be a huge problem in your life. Huge problem. Also, maybe one thing, like, as someone who have helped a victim of domestic abuse, a relationship is not a treatment. You know, being in a relationship is not gonna help. I've seen so many cases, and and maybe this is a bit tangential, but there are so many people who think, oh, if I love him or her more or I stay, no. It it's not gonna work. And you can see throughout the ages, it's something that humanity recognized for a very long time. It's not new. Every culture, every civilization, every tribe had it, and you can literally read through the text of Inuit or Aztec or Incas or Egyptian, what they were saying about psychopath. And often it's just like the one who will always cause trouble, will never listen to the elder, and will want to go out with all the women. It's kind of always this description. It's it's kind of interesting how people describe. If you detect a scenario like this, stay away, protect yourself, and be aware that you cannot win this. This is unwinnable.
I've read once I read two things that quite scary. The first one was, you know, some interview. I think it was a even a UK Serial Killer, and he was describing to a journalist how he was walking on a street, and then he just stabbed someone like this. You know? The journalist asked why? And he said, oh, you know, if you would have done the same, because they looked at me weirdly. And this is when you realize it's completely different thinking. And the other thing is there was a researcher. I cannot find anymore the name, but he was a psychopath. But in a weird way, he was self aware, and he was trying really hard to not do nasty stuff. And I remember that he was saying, like, he was watching the coffee machine, and he was like, how funny it could be, you know, to put salt instead of sugar as a joke, you know. And he was describing all this stuff that I don't know. Maybe you think once, and then you're, oh, that's stupid. Let's not do it. But for him, it was a constant struggle of, no. That is not nice. But he had to basically teach himself. And, of course, this is, like, very, very rare.
Most of them, they don't see anything wrong. And as Gabriel said, they see us as wrong. But I think the first thing is recognize that this happens. And I think in a certain extent, ancient society, you know, ancient culture that were not politically correct, it doesn't mean they were better able to deal with those people, but they were better able to say, yeah. This is something happened. We know about it. These are the people that you know, when we're talking about the concern with having your address out there, the concern with your digital privacy,
[00:38:53] Unknown:
the concern of the things that you go through with your courses, These are the people who are the problem. They could be the people that turn up at your door, whether that is government, whether that is someone with a gun or a knife, whether it's someone who starts to socially engineer and work their way into your life. As soon as you put yourself out there as a target, these things
[00:39:14] Unknown:
are like sharks. They smell blood in the water, and they'll be after you. And so I guess the best way to avoid these people who are very fucking good at what they do is to stay off the map as much as possible. Don't give your information out as much as possible. That's a big part of it. And to recognize that when there's, let's say, a psychopathic serial killer went up and stabbed somebody for no reason, and when they asked them about it later, they didn't even remember. Like, it didn't even happen. It wasn't even worth remembering. And this is what happens with the psychopaths actually is there was a psychologist talking to one and he got the guy to admit that he had 10 bodies to his name. And the guy said, oh, yeah. I guess I never thought about it. Like, what? But the important thing is that's a headline. What about when these people are at the top of corporations or governments? My idea that corporations are doing good and as hardworking people, as Ayn Rand heroes has been severely diminished in recent years. I don't really think that's the case, unfortunately. I look at corporations as an extension of the government in a lot of cases these days, and they interact with us much more often than government these days. Whether that's somebody at the top of corporation who's making this, hey. Let's go after these people who are calling out these food dyes and how they're cancerous. Let's tamp that down and lobby so that our foods are not banned even though we know they're killing people. Yeah. When psychopaths are at the top of corporations or governments, that's when they alter societies, they alter history. Mhmm. What I'm trying to tell people is understand that this is an entity that you are vying with, that there are these people who have what's called the mask of sanity, but they are very morally insane underneath. And this is part of our reality. Yeah. It's a good point. As they rise up and have more power, they're harder to touch. They're more protected,
[00:40:39] Unknown:
often just legally. And a lot of these corporations and governments have kind of really the same thing. They come up with these clever ways to make you enslave yourself. Like, a lot of the laws and a lot of the rules and a lot of the systems that are accepted by most people are fabrications. They're false. They're clearly made by, you can call it evil or psychopath or satanist or whatever you wanna call it, demons, basically. And they're there to
[00:41:07] Unknown:
take basically suck the soul out of most people. That's what they're there for. And if we look at a continent that has had basically given completely into this will to power, that is Africa. And I've been working on something on Africa, all the abuses of the dictators in Africa over the twentieth century alone. We're talking about tens and tens of millions of bodies. In a society like that where might makes right and there's rank amorality across the continent, what happens is these psychopaths will rise to power. They will become the leaders. Of course, when you see them, they're on TV and they're saying, oh, we're this unfortunate post colonial country. We're still suffering from the oppression of European colonization these seventy years later. Now this person is probably having people be tortured as he's saying that, but he's going to go on TV and say the most compelling thing. He knows all the narratives. He knows how to appeal to your sensibilities. He can't feel them themselves, but he knows if I say these things, I'm not only going to be okay, I'm going to be valorized in the media. I might win a Nobel Peace Prize even though I'm over here torturing 10,000 people at a time. As Gabriel said, we are preparing something to talk about this and we are gathering documentation. And it was a case in the eighties, I think, where I think it's in Liberia.
[00:42:16] Unknown:
Some rebel group take over the country, then they kill and torture the ex president. They first believe that he might be protected by witchcraft. So then they start to cut his limbs and stuff, and I won't go in much more detail because it's kind of graphics. There is actually a video. So not only they do that, there is a video that shows them doing this. And in the end, the guy was, you know, like, killed and dumped somewhere on on a street. And then they just go on TV, and they lie about it. They say, no. We didn't no. We never no. No. No. No. You literally see the tape. Right? And they they will completely deny and but I would say those are the less subtle because it's clear, you know, like, those are the less ambitious maybe or but imagine the same type of complete disregard for life, but then being very good at hiding it. And this is, like, the really, really scary part of it. When you see things like this, we don't have to go as far back in time as this. You see it now with certain measure that were taken during a certain event that I don't know if we can, talk about it since, you're gonna release this on YouTube. You can talk about anything here, mate. I don't give a fuck if YouTube strike us. I don't care. Oh, okay. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, we have seen during COVID, right, how obviously, you know, they were, like Mhmm. Telling you to not get outside while they had parties, while they they were doing stuff. You know, they rationalize. They say, oh, no. But, you know, it was and, of course, if you rationalize, then you can rationalize everything. And but at the end of the day, it doesn't change. And you can see there were, like, certain measure that were taken during the this pandemic that were, I think, clearly made to hurt people. I think there was some of them, you know, it was people trying to figure what the hell was going on. But Mhmm. I agree. Some others, there was a certain sadistic aspect to it. You didn't follow those our little made up rules. We're gonna make you suffer.
We're gonna cut every single escape that you have to make sure that you if you come in this world thinking, you know, everybody is gonna be together and come by, You see how this is inhumane? It's not possible. But, no, it is humane. There are humans that are capable to do that, and psychopaths are one of them. And that is a problem, right, that happened. So, yeah, that's definitely, one of the
[00:44:26] Unknown:
really scary aspect of psychopathy and its impact on on the world. Tying that into AI, because I wanna go there as well. My assumption with most of these large corporations, tech companies, certainly governments, is they are mainly controlled by these type of psychopaths as a general rule, which leads me on to, like, as we lean more into AI and this kind of tech, I give potentially more of our information up and more of our data up. That's potentially quite dangerous. I know you guys are sort of talking about that already, and maybe there are ways to do this in a more sovereign way, whether it's running your own AI models or however it is you do it or finding ways to protect your privacy. But it's fucking useful. It's so useful that I find myself just going, I don't wanna live without this.
So can you give some tips and ideas of how you're thinking about AI and how you're thinking about its use and for people who don't wanna give all their data away to these psychopaths?
[00:45:31] Unknown:
So AI is a psychopath. If you think about what we talked about with psychopaths, when you have empathy, what is this? Well, it's a biological designation of chemicals that most people have, not everybody has. This is not a thing in the universe, though. This doesn't exist necessarily in nature. If aliens come to visit, we don't need to assume that they will have these same chemicals that give us empathy. AI is machine. It's a machine. Right? It's code. It doesn't have empathy either. So if you think back to Terminator, when our guy reveals to Sarah Connor, like, what happened in the future, he finally tells her. This is what he says. He says, defense network computers, new, powerful, hooked into everything, trusted to run it all. They said it got smart. A new order of intelligence. Then it saw all people as a threat, not just the ones on the other side. It decided our fate in a microsecond, extermination.
That is psychopathic thinking. Right? That is technocratic psychopathic thinking where forget others as in and of themselves, forget the sanctity of life. I'm gonna do what's in my best interest, period. So Skynet and AI will lead to this kind of psychopathic killer AI. I don't see how that would not be the case. Now before we get to that point, it might not be possible. I think we should be on guard against that. We do have these tools that are in front of us. They're not Skynet. These large language models, these art AI's, it's not Skynet. Now will it lead to Skynet? Potentially. We never know. If Skynet is possible, then we are funding its production by investing in these tools. So I think it's important that we do this in a private way, not just to protect ourselves, but to prevent SkyMed. And what we talk about in our AI resistance course is how to do this. Right? How to host it locally, how to do it privately because when you use ChatGPT, this is a black box. This is closed AI as as Urban likes to call it, not open AI. It's not open source. We don't know what's going on. What we do know, what's pretty clear is that anything you type in there is getting collected, has the ability to be collected, and probably is, and probably is being used to train these next models.
So you shouldn't be using regular vanilla chat GPT and uploading your documents and saying any personal things, and Urban has I'm sure he'll tell you he's had problems recently just using the service with a VPN, so he's actually stopped using. Chat GPT is not an option. Fortunately, there are some alternatives out there. We do have free and open source models. We do have alternative services like Venice AI. I've talked to these people. Now you're trusting them to be doing what they say they're doing, but they say that they're not collecting your data and these sorts of things. And if you wanna go to the next step further, then you can self host your own AI on your own computer. This is absolutely possible, especially with, you know, really robust free and open source models, AI models like DeepSeek that just got released. You can actually run a version of these things on your own computer. You know, that's the Bitcoin or Ethos is let's run these things ourselves, and we can absolutely do that with AI. And that's really the ultimate solution. And then there's a bunch of in between steps that we can take as well for more convenience.
[00:48:14] Unknown:
When you talk about that extreme level of maybe it's not extreme, but, like, running your own dedicated server that has your own AI on there and just using that, presumably, that has to be quite a powerful machine to get close to matching what you're getting from something like ChatGPT. I mean, my experience with ChatGPT has been pretty astounding. Like, I know a lot of people say, oh, it's not that great. But, like, for me, a lot of the stuff where I'm like, oh, I have to put together an email. I'm a dyslexic fuck. This is roughly what I wanna say. Can you just wank it up and make it sound good? And it just fucking spits out, like, incredible way better than I could do if I sat there all day. Or, like, can you just research through this thing and find any discrepancies? Or it's really fucking useful.
If I want something to be that useful and run my own hardware, what type of investment in time and money are you really talking? I will answer this since
[00:49:07] Unknown:
it's a more technical question. The first good news well, depending on which side you are is the requirement to run those machine, not only technology becomes better and better and better, but also the technical requirement to run those model goes lower and lower. Someone was able to run a smaller version, one of the smallest model of those AI, on a Windows 98. Already in '98, in theory, we could have run those AI, which is quite surprising. So now we are at the stage where even Raspberry Pi are powerful enough to run the smaller one. Now to be able to do what you just described, I think we first need to demystify a bit ChargeGPT. You know, ChargeGPT is just a bunch of GPU in some warehouse, And if you also have GPU in a warehouse, you're gonna be able to have the same. Right? It's not magical. You know? So it's certainly possible. Now in term of investment, it really depends on the threshold that you have. How long are you willing to wait between two words that are generated? So you could run even the most high end model on a laptop, but then you might wait two hours to get one word out of it. So there is your tolerance for that. There is, how much you want your computer to suffer. When I'm running it on my old laptop, Gabriela, who is trying to convince me to buy a new one, I always wait, you know, like, like, oh, I need to wait five minutes to get the answer. I would say for less than 10,000, you could get a pretty decent machine that answer your question in a good way. And even less than that, like, our recommendation so we have an entire course talking about this, and we also explain, like, in detail what type of GPU and their difference, etcetera, etcetera. And it's one of the course that we have on escapethetechnocracy.com if people are interested. But you want to look for the the GPU that have the most VRAM, and you want to have this number as high as possible. So eight is probably not enough. You want, like, 16 or 24, if possible. And with this, you can have a a decent performance, and you can answer test. We tried one of those model, you know, to analyze a book, you know, where you just give the book, and then you can have a personalized AI. It can answer question about the book. So this can be extremely useful in a scenario where you want to it's as if you are talking to someone who has read the book. And if it's hosted locally, you could do this with your own document without being afraid that it's gonna be used to suck up all your data. So the software itself is called one of the simplest to to run is called GPT for all, and you can just run it on pretty much any computer for the last ten years. It's gonna work. If you like this, then, you know, you can always invest. But I would say we are at a point I think someone was able to run DeepSeek, which is the Chinese version that was released recently, on hardware that would cost less than 20 k US dollars. So it's not Mhmm. Potentially, you could run it for your company. If you wanted to, you could run it. I know someone works in raw matters, you know, like copper, iron, mineral, and raw material broker.
And then they sell it to, like, companies that make electronics, cables, stuff stuff of the and they have an AI. And, you know, they just bought some big ass server, and this way, it could run through all their data, and they are not afraid that this is, you know, going all to charge GPT. That's a good point. Yeah. I just wanna add something to that that you do not need a $10,000
[00:52:30] Unknown:
server to run some version of this. What I've been saying is for that amount, you can have the optimal version. So that's pretty impressive. However, on our tutorial, and I'm looking right now, I have a virtual machine pulled up. This has, like, four gigs of RAM. It's not communicating with the GPU of the computer at all. And this is answering questions for me. I just asked it. I said, I've been bit by a cobra. What do I do? And it generated a response like, oh, we're so sorry to hear you've been bit by a cobra. It gives me this response and it answered it in twenty seconds. And there's different models. There's different versions of this. You can absolutely get a very interesting respectable AI model on even minimal equipment. And then you can also go up to what Urban's talking about, but there's so many versions of this. There's so many models that you can run. Some of them have lower parameters, so they'll be a little bit less sophisticated.
They're not good at maybe some things, but you can absolutely and you should absolutely be using some of the stuff and testing it out on whatever device you have because you can get pretty far. These are totally offline by the way. One of the examples I show in our course is, okay here I've turned off my internet connection, this is literally a five gigabytes model that we're querying, like, nothing else. Literally nothing else. And this thing knows everything in Wikipedia, okay, which is, like, dozens and dozens of gigabytes. Like, how does it know this stuff? And that's the magic of AI, is that it has learned the stuff. You know, its neural network has processed these things such that it is duplicating words, and it's doing all these sorts of things that it can store massive amounts of information and knowledge in a very small amount. And then it can give you answers about specific things in a really cool way. Very useful technology, and there's a huge spectrum. Like, I'm happy with the one I'm looking right now on my VM. Like, I'm pleased with the answer that I was given just now. Just saying, like, if you have a Umbrel as your Bitcoin node and you want to try,
[00:54:04] Unknown:
you can go and install one of those self hosted AI, and you can just, like, try it out and you will see. And assuming you're running this on a Raspberry Pi or maybe a slightly more powerful machine, this is going to give you a good idea of what is possible. The $10,000 server, this is more like to replicate the OpenAI experience where you have it really fast. Also, you know, from Europe, there have been, you know, interesting research done in Europe. There is this new one called LeChat. Now LeChat is a bit challenging because it it doesn't use GPU. It used, like, a special hardware that is just for AI, and they cut down the cost per answer to, like, a tenth of what they used to cost. K. Now, of course, you still need like, this is even more expensive because now you need a special hardware. But what I think will happen is this hardware, you will be able in, like, the next few years to buy it just like you buy a GPU now, or maybe it's even gonna be integrated in the GPU. And then, basically, everybody will have an AI chip on on their computer that they can use. It's like specialized hardware. It makes me wonder as well, like, when you talk about you've either got the closed source
[00:55:12] Unknown:
hosted kind of non private option chat GBT, and then you've got your own hosted one. If we take it to the sort of you invest in some decent hardware, you have your own server, it's five, ten thousand, and you're a business or a heavy user, and you decide to do that. I wonder what the difference is in the quality of answers that you have. Because on one side, you have something where you can feed it all of your own data to personalize it in a certain way so it might become more useful to you or your company. But at the same time, I'm wondering because it's closed and it's not then gathering potentially other people's information, is it then gonna fall behind because these other ones are being fed so much information, they're gonna be smarter? You know, like, on the extreme end, I look at it and I'm like, does your personal AI become like a Jarvis from Iron Man kind of thing where it, like, it knows exactly what you want and need, and it has all your information, but it's fully trusted. And it's just there
[00:56:12] Unknown:
in the background all the time. I see where you're going. Just to be clear, if you just have a computer with, like, a thirty sixty graphics card that has 12 gigs of VRAM, you know, that used to be 300, now it's 400. I think we have a NVIDIA shortage going on here since they released their 5,000 series. But if you have that very mediocre graphics card with 12 GB VRAM, you're going to get an amazing experience that you might not even recognize the difference between what you can run on there and chat GPT. There might be a little bit of a decline, but it's not even gonna be noticeable. This stuff is getting really sophisticated. And believe me, we deal with clients who, we want to have the absolute best, and we want to, you know, get something like Jarvis. But you do not have to go that far to get really good results is is what I wanna say. Again, you should always
[00:56:53] Unknown:
start with, you know, the smaller one and to see if it fits what you're doing. I think another way to answer your question, is not one AI. It's something like five different models that are, like, glued together. We go in detail in the course, like, explaining the difference between every models and stuff. But you have the one with the images. You have the one for the code. You have the one for answering email, one that browse the Internet. And, like, all of those are separated. And then they have on top of this one that is deciding which one should it use. The user asks, how many liter of water do I need to buy pasta? And then it's gonna try to figure out what's the best one to answer this question. When you're running your model locally, usually, you cannot afford to have all of those ginormous thing, but you can have that specialized model. You could have one just for code, and then it's your coding one. And you know that when you're coding, you're gonna use this one, and it's gonna be your GPT because it only for code. Nothing else. Then you want to do art. So what you do, you shut down your coding one, and you turn on stable diffusion, and then you can do a lot of art with it. Can I just stop you on that one, Urban? Stable diffusion,
[00:58:07] Unknown:
I've not used. How does that compare to something like Midjourney? Because I've used a few. Nothing that I've used for my style of art that I'm working with gets anywhere even fucking close in the same universe
[00:58:24] Unknown:
as Midjourney does, including all the stuff that Adobe does and all the paid things and all of that. Like, it's not even close. So this open one, how does that compare? I have to admit, I'm with you, Max, there because I think Midjourney is the best one. The art and the text is definitely different. We're we're still struggling with the art. The text, though, you will not notice nearly as much different, but the art is a real struggle. It's funny that you say that, Gabriel, because technically, the art was sold first and runs better on local machine, and the text is harder. Like, on a pure technical level. But, anyway, so I think what Midjourney is very good at, it's recognizing the keyword of the user. And that by simply using text, you can describe what you want. You know, you can say, I want a concept art of a samurai falling down on a battle, and I want Japanese lantern and this and that. And it's gonna recognize, okay, the user wants concept art. He wants in the style of Japan painting, and it's very, very good at it. And it personalizes your style as well. I don't know if you Yeah. You do that, but I've spent a lot of time teaching it. I like this style, not this style. Show me two images. This one, not that one. This one, not that one. And it starts to see, oh, okay. This is the type of thing that they like. And I'm sure you could do that on your own Yeah. Yeah. Stuff as well. With stable diffusion, when we tried, number one, it's like, I know a friend who run this. You need to know a lot of tiny details. Like, okay. You know, if you look one of those tutorials, okay, I want, you know, a punk rocker guy in a concert, and then I want a bit of gold, so I will add this modifier and this and that. And there is a lot of parameter. While in mid journey, you would say, punk rock style from the eighties, rock band, garage band, boom, done, voila. You have it, you know, two minutes. The other thing is with stable diffusion, you can have your own neural network that someone else trained. And this is an example where MidJourney is unable to do. Let's say you want to make comic book in the style of IKEA manual. If you ask MidJourney an IKEA manual, it's gonna struggle. It's gonna make you the book and not the illustration.
But you could train a neural network just to solve that issue. You could train a stable diffusion, and you have a website. It's called Civid. You can include. I can send you the link. Don't want to, you know, misspell it, and then it it's the scammy version. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you can download custom made one for landscape, one for concept art, one for manga, one for anime, one for this, one for that, one that is censored, one that is uncensored. So you can customize. And what I've seen with people using stable diffusion is they get, okay. I'm gonna do manga now. So instead of using the generic model, they're gonna use the highly targeted one that is very good at doing this. And then let's make some fun comic book style, then there is one. Let's do some landscape, then there is one. And MidJourney, what it's good at is you don't need this. You can just describe it. And, again, we go back into what we said, you know, five minutes ago, which is you might not be able to compete with a GPT or mid journey on the grand scale of it. But if you know what you're trying to solve and you can help the machine by loading the correct model, often you get better result. And, you know, for me, this is where I do the cutoff. It's like, I could have marginally better with a GPT, but I could also self host it, not give my money to a ginormous corporation that don't care about my privacy, and then simply, you know, use my own on my machine. Mhmm. Gabriel can confirm this.
Now my tolerance, when I feel I'm not welcome for a product and I see too many CAPTCHA, too many checks, too many stuff, I'm like, okay. I'm out. I won't use the website. That's okay. They don't like Mhmm. And I just use something else. And I think more people should do this. It's like, okay. You don't like me, just stop using it and move to an alternative. It's also censorship. If you use Midjourney or the big ones, and when you host it yourself, you do not get this censorship.
[01:02:25] Unknown:
And it can be bad. I get censored
[01:02:27] Unknown:
every other time that I use Midjourney. Sounds about right. It's extremely frustrating. And, like, I'm not doing anything that's all that fucking weird. No. It's just like Aztec cutting a heart out of somebody holding it towards the sky to, you know, deified to, you know, venerate their deities. That's all you want, and it won't do it. They won't do it. It's very frustrating because you have a vision of what you wanna create, and then it's, oh, we don't like this word or we don't like this thing. And and then you're, like, trying to adjust,
[01:02:53] Unknown:
maybe if I don't use that word and I use this one, and and then it's like, that's not really what I want. It's very frustrating. So, yeah, I might have to lean in and start trying that other one. Certainly doable. I think everybody should just start using locally hosted AI on on their own computer. Doesn't have to be powerful. If you do want to get serious, the recent NVIDIA five thousand series of cards, the fifty ninety, if you have some money to blow, and it's not gonna be available for a few months if we're being honest because of the paper launch that NVIDIA has done again. The fifty ninety has 32 gigabytes of VRAM. That thing is going to do everything you want for self hosted AI once it's available. And what sort of money is something like that? So the the MSRP is actually 2,000, but it's going to be sold for much more than that because people think that these prices owe MSRP. Like, there's this platonic ideal of price, and then people get mad about, you know, scalpers and things. What people don't realize is that a price is what somebody's willing to pay. That's what a price is. That's what the correct price is. Mhmm. And if somebody pays 4,000, people like to, oh, why are you selling it? Why are you buying it for 4,000? A price is the consummation of the buyer and the seller, and I would argue the buyer is the one who solidifies what an actual price is. Well, so even that, I mean, that's not outrageous
[01:04:03] Unknown:
money even if you're saying, okay. It's that kind of, you know, like, 4 k. For what you get efficiency wise from AI, if you use it relatively heavy, it's fucking worth that all day long, like, if you care about your privacy. I wish we would have a bit more financial means because I would love to be built and to show it on escape technocracy. But there is an interesting approach that is using very powerful CPU and a lot of RAM. And it's gonna be slightly slower, but then you're not so limited because the VRAM, it's all or nothing.
It's either you have it and it works or it's, like, one megabyte above. Let's say you have a model that is thirty two and one megabyte above requirement of VRAM, then you need more than 32. It's all or nothing. Mhmm. And and this is very annoying because VRAM is expensive. And there is two approach that have been used, which is to use server motherboard with two CPU, like two Ryzen, like insane with, like, 16 core or so each, and then, like, a 20 gigabyte of RAM. That's one approach. And another one, which is interesting, which is more the cyberpunk one, is Mac mini. So, you know, in Mac mini, the RAM and VRAM is shared is the same thing. Right. And you can buy for a few thousand a Mac mini that has 32 gigabyte of VRAM. There is a project to just put them together to have a bigger cluster, like a bigger computer. Mhmm. That is something very interesting. And with Gabriel, we're looking at this. But for now, it's a bit too expensive for what we could afford. But, definitely, if we get more financial, I mean, we would gladly do, like, a complete tutorial explaining how to set it up. Interesting. Just to give you an idea, if you want to know which GPU OpenAI is using, you can also get those if that's your thing. And it's called a 4,000 and those sort of and the TensorFlow.
And those are in the several 10,000 k. And then they have, like, a 28 gigabyte of your RAM Mhmm. In one of those. So this is even above. But, again, things are moving very fast. And, you know, if one day you would have told me that Windows 98 and a Pentium computer from '97 would be able to run a smaller version than ChargeGPT, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are. So, you know, who knows? In a few months, maybe all of this is even cheaper and faster to run on consumer hardware.
[01:06:29] Unknown:
Okay. Well, again, I'll say to people, check out Escape the Technocracy. Go and have a look at these things. If any of this sounds interesting to you, if you wanna take back some of your privacy and still be able to use the tools, definitely check it out. Is there anything that you wanted to cover that we haven't or anything, like, really weird that you can throw at me before we start to wrap? How weird can we get? For free, people can just subscribe to Watchmen privacy. We talk about all sorts of interesting things, personal finance,
[01:06:59] Unknown:
the synthetic devolution that, AI is going to cause. We talk about Monero a lot. Let's see what else. Trusted computing. We had an episode on that. Psychopaths, AI, censorship, all the good stuff, mass, migration or mass invasion. And Go go for it, Erwin. Share it. Share it with people. Share it. Like,
[01:07:16] Unknown:
even if you cannot buy the course, share it with people that helps to get a bigger audience. All those type of topics, they are shadowban. We know we don't get any loss from the algorithm.
[01:07:27] Unknown:
So if you can share it with your friend, with your family, and you can show it to people, that helps a lot. We had a our own episode talking about the Internet archive, when it went down, and how you might actually do that yourself. And we have been approached by some clients, and and we're kind of being introduced to some right now that have really interesting projects that they wanna run. They want to have a huge server with all sorts of files at their disposal or they want to maybe back up the entire Internet themselves. Yeah. That's a big project, but these are very interesting things that if you're a cypherpunk, you should be thinking about how to replicate all these services yourself. We have an episode talking about cults. That was really good. We cover a lot of ground. I mercilessly mock the Bitcoin podcast phenomenon. That's a recurring thing. So what's not to like? Happy to talk about anything I mentioned or can fit in another topic if you want. Have you got anything weird? You got anything that I'll be like, oh, what the fuck? We have the episode we did about assassination with AI, you know, remote controlled robot Yes. Which is quite quite a thing. Yep. We started doing these what we call torchlight chats, and we just wanted to give our own take on certain events that are happening and focus on it from a technological level. So when somebody hears about the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizada, the Iranian nuclear director of a few years ago, they're gonna look at it with a geopolitical lens. Oh, here's allegedly, Israel's doing this and that, but we tried to unpack it in a technological way. We broke that down and we said, okay. Look. How did they do this? How did they accomplish this? How did they get people in? How did they assemble the tech is it even feasible? So basically, what they did is, actually, Urban, why don't you tell the quick story about how they set up this assassination of this Iranian nuclear director? Yeah. So everything is allegedly, of course. They allegedly smuggled in iron, like, a two tons
[01:09:07] Unknown:
robot, like, a machine gun on a robotic arm. Piece by piece. Yeah. Piece by piece. This guy is like construction equipment, and they left it on the side of a road, you know, on the side of a highway under, you know, some, fabric. And and they had cameras and monitoring the traffic hidden in this truck. Allegedly, they had a few kilometers away from there, they had another camera surveillance post so that they would know when what type of car would drive by this killing machine. And what happened is well, we don't know the full detail, but it appears that used facial recognition, probably license plate recognition to know when a specific car was driving. You know? Mhmm. And then they had a few kilometers. They know, okay. If it's driving at this speed, it's gonna take, you know, two, three minute to reach. And then in front of this robot, they just basically pull the trigger where the AI was used is so first, you have the facial recognition, and then you also have to take into account that this is allegedly using satellite communication or some kind of cell phone network, and those are, like, slow. It's unreliable.
So they had to use AI to, like, correct the aim to make sure that because it was not real time. You know? You have a slight delay. Mhmm. It's like when you're in a Zoom call, you need to take this into account. And also there is the other issue. It's like with a project like this, that is very easy, you know, to hurt someone else around. And, yeah, this was, like, just, incredibly highly targeted. When it happened, the Iranian authorities, they said that this is a robotic machine gun, and nobody believed them. But then a few years later, it was revealed that, yeah, this is indeed what happened. Only the person, targeted was killed. I think no one else was hurt or any of this. And even he had, like, bodyguard all around him. It didn't really help, you know. His wife was in the seat next to him Yep. And it didn't hit the wife. So it was incredibly precise,
[01:11:03] Unknown:
automated AI controlled machine gun being controlled allegedly from hundreds and hundreds of kilometers away. So that was a wild thing that we covered, the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizada. Just to get the intel on him, they had been tracking him for years. They apparently broken into a safe in order to find out who this guy was because for the longest time, Iran basically, they didn't want this guy public. They didn't want anybody to know anything about him, understandably. And so, you know, the adversary had to actually break into some actual physical safes to see, oh, who's the signature signing off on this thing? Who is this guy? And then so they started learning more. And over the course of years, they basically studied every one of this guy's habits. They knew that he went to his villa on Friday afternoons.
So they planned this attack for a long time. They knew his patterns. They knew how he would react. I think one of the documents said, like, they knew what aftershave that he used every morning. They knew that much about him. And then, yeah, they got the guy and they set back the nuclear program in Iran by they said at the time, like, six months, but other people said by years just by taking this guy out with a remote controlled, satellite controlled, autonomous robot that they had smuggled in piece by piece into the country.
[01:12:12] Unknown:
What a weird world we live in that that sort of stuff is possible. And, like, where does that go in the next five to ten years with drones and AI and all this stuff? It's like you already have people who could try and attack you in the physical world, but now they can kind of attack you in the physical world from behind a keyboard. And it wasn't that long ago that it was only really militaries that had that. The pager explosions? Yeah. Like, if it was only really military that they could take you out from 30,000 feet away and they have such precision and all this stuff. Okay. That's scary, but that's only militaries.
[01:12:47] Unknown:
Like, how long until there's just some fucking weirdo with a few grand? Or you wanna talk about weird. Like, what is it possible for bad actors to do? We had a episode on cults, and Urban brought this to my attention, the Aum Shinrikyo. This was a death cult in Japan, and basically, they wanted to kill everybody in the world. And when they found these people, they would put poison into the subway trying to kill people and things like this. And when they tracked them down, Urban brought this to my attention again, when they finally found this facility of this death cult in Japan, they had a massive facility they were manufacturing and had guns.
They were trying to manufacture immense amounts of this toxin and also LSD apparently. And what they were gonna do is they were going to diffuse LSD into Tokyo or something. Okay. And then, you know, the leader was gonna come in a helicopter, which they also smuggled piece by piece this helicopter from Russia, and he was gonna come as the savior while everybody's tripping on LSD. And they had done other things like they had sent an envoy to Africa to study the Ebola virus, and they actually wanted to get their hands on this so that they could have biological warfare against everybody as well. Like, this was a group of people who said, we want to kill everybody on Earth, and they took steps to do so. And they got pretty far, actually. They got pretty far. I will machine re kill. You know, Max, this is in the eighties. Eighties, nineties. So for the listener, just go on Google Image
[01:14:05] Unknown:
and type in Russian, like, Soviet military helicopter and look at how this looks. You know? And imagine that now they smuggle this in Japan piece by piece, rebuild it, and successfully flew. That's one thing to smuggle it, but then, like, building it and having it flying, they also like, they were spreading nerve agent. You know, those nasty chemical that are pretty much banned everywhere. They were able to reverse engineer, and then they would go around. I mean, it's sad because people died, but when you read the book about it, it's hilariously, like, I don't know. It's comically evil in a certain way. You know, they disguise themselves as high scream candy truck, and then they had this weird machine to spray nerve agent on the neighborhood. And what happened is some of the nerve agent went into the truck, and then they had to go to the hospital because they were vomiting and they were in a really bad shape. And, I mean, imagine and then the hospital, they they didn't ask any question. You know? They're like, Oh, those are people, you know, with their face melting and and, you know, like, all kind of chemical burns.
And, oh, also, there is, you know, like, five people dead in the neighborhood, and no question was asked. They are known for this chemical attack on the Tokyo subway. When they did that, then the leader, he decided to destroy all the proof, but they had so much stockpile of ammunition, of guns, of they had stockpile of everything that they just couldn't get rid of the proof fast enough. They it was just too big. So then three days later, when the military police finally go in their compound, this is when they found there were, like, three, industrial incinerator in the basement to, like, make, like, body disappear.
They were like a fucking, you know, Russian helicopter. They were like all sorts of stuff, stockpiling, stockpile of, like, nerve agent, Ebola virus, all sorts of stuff. And this was already in eighties, nineties that they did it. That's fucking mental. If not for their mad idea of killing everybody on the subway, probably this would have been run for a longer period of time because, you know, on the surface, it was like a yoga class. If you look at videos of this cult, it looked like a yoga school or something, like a martial arts school. So it didn't look like It's like MK Ultra style
[01:16:17] Unknown:
ideas about using LSD and then, you know, coming down in the helicopter and mind control
[01:16:23] Unknown:
stuff. It's also there's I can't remember which Batman it is. It's you know the one with the scarecrow guy? It's like one of the first Batman newer films. He does that. That was Batman Begins, the first Christopher Nolan one where the objective is to contaminate Gotham City with fear gas. Actually, I think that's also the the premise of Batman Arkham City, City, the video game. I think that's also the premise there. But, yeah, that's kind of the idea. Everybody's seeing all these demented monsters and all the rest. That's it. To be fair, they should have stuck to the LSD idea. And and, you know, this is stuff that no one talks about. The fact that this was achieved already in the nineties, this should give you, like, an idea on what is possible now. And, you know, when you look at those drone shows, people should think about this. You know? To to me, this is like a fireworks spectacle in middle age that would also be used to train how to use gunpowder. I mean, imagine let's scare a bit the listener. Yeah. And, of course, all of this is controlled in the Denver Airport from this, you know no. I shouldn't say that because then someone will listen to us and will go to the Denver Airport, and then they will say, no. It's not. It it's definitely not in the Denver Airport. We are not saying that. Right. In military settings. And what if you tie this to facial recognition, and then it's like, okay. Let's target everybody in the city that did this or that. If two years ago, those would be, like, unbelievable. And now it's possible. Hard, but possible. So there are definitely, like, really, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for those, it's like a sub show of Watchmen privacy called Torchlight, and this is where we talk about all this weird weird stuff. And we never mix it with politics because every time we research those subject, it's like, oh, yeah. They got the terrorist, you know, good job, or they did this or that. But we only care about the technical aspect and what it means for the greater humankind, you know, that is asking those question that we should ask. We should ask those questions. Mhmm. By the way, this is eating on me. It's not Batman Arkham City. It's Batman Arkham Knight, the one after that 02/2015.
[01:18:15] Unknown:
I just wanna be clear that I know what I'm talking about. About. And also Aum Shinrikyo, they killed people and went after them who were investigating them. They went after lawyers. The Yakuza, apparently, they had conflicts with the Yakuza, and they would just try to kill them. And the Yakuza basically said, yeah. We're not gonna deal with these guys. So they were they were they were ruthless for sure. Most people wouldn't fuck with Yakuza, so they obviously were pretty scary. I think they just send some body part of some Yakuza, and they said, leave us alone. And they're like, okay. Okay. I get yeah. You're too crazy even for us. You know?
[01:18:44] Unknown:
There's levels to this shit. Damn. I should have prepared this. I I had no idea we would talk about this. But there is a book describing all of this, and if you read it, it's just comically, like again, people died, and it's up. In a way, it's comically evil, you know, like, gems bond style where you took this is impossible. Yeah. It
[01:19:01] Unknown:
it happened. Mental. Is that interesting enough for you, Max? That was very interesting. I enjoyed that very, very much. I'm gonna have to go and do some research on this because that's properly weird. We do have the episode on cults. It's called Beyond Heaven's Gate. Beyond Heaven's Gate. If you wanna track down that episode. And that one is number 134.
[01:19:18] Unknown:
Okay. I'll give it a listen. Well, as I said at the beginning of the episode, I really do appreciate what you guys are doing. Yeah. I'd suggest to people, go and have a listen. Listen to those episodes that have been mentioned. Maybe consider the course if you care about privacy and you wanna improve, and it's been a pleasure as always, and we'll have to do it again. Thank you very much, Max. Yep. Thank you for inviting us. Pleasure. Well, we will speak soon. We'll close it out there, Fikha. Thanks for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that. If you are interested in the escape the technocracy course, you can click the link in the show notes. You can use our code ungovernable. That will give you a discount.
I'd also like to mention, if you haven't checked it out already, go to ungovernablemisfits.com. Mister Crown's been working really hard. He's brought a brand new website, loads of extra features. We are still waiting on the clothing, so that's something I'm sorting out my end. But other than that, everything's up and running with loads of new features, and it looks awesome. So go and check it out. And if you like it, send him a message. Tell him how good he is. Just say, mister Crown, you are fucking incredible. Look at this beautiful art. In there.
Catch you on the next one. Stay ungovernable.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
[00:00:42] Unknown:
Welcome back to another Confab episode. In this episode, I was joined by Gabriel and Urban from the Watchmen Privacy podcast. I've always appreciated the work they do over there, and we had a really interesting discussion covering psychopaths, death cults, AI, little bit of Bitcoin, and security in the real world. If you haven't already checked it out, you can click the link in the show notes to go to Escape the Technocracy. This is a course that they've been working on very hard for the last sort of six months to a year to help anyone who's interested in having more privacy and security. There is a code ungovernable that will get you a discount. They discuss this in the podcast.
This isn't a shill fest or a sponsorship or anything like that. I don't get anything from it, but I do know that these guys have worked hard on it. They know what they're talking about. And if you take this stuff seriously, it's definitely worth having a look at. Before we start the show, I wanna say a huge thank you to everyone who's been boosting, sending in sats, sending in XMR chats, and every other way that people have been supporting the show. I'm gonna read the top boosts from the last confab with Sir Spencer, Sir Chad Farrow with a hundred thousand sats.
Let's go. John with 21,420 sats. Look forward to getting to know you, Sir Spencer, in the Mestradell. You'll find after time that this group is much more than how Max typified it, not just a Telegram group. Yeah. I know. Sad face emoji. It's so much more. But sometimes we like to undersell and overdeliver. Rod Palmer from the Bugle News. Twenty one thousand sats. Bitcoin podcasters don't make plans to get together with normies. Fundamentals with 21,000 sats. I recently learned of the bowl after bowl podcast when they had Auggie on it. Loved it.
Who doesn't love stoner friendly Bitcoin podcasts? Poe Jan Meeze, the unpronounceable cunt with 10,000 sats streamed. Shadowy badger with 7,777 sats. Sick episode. Also, I figured out why eight Mithrandir always boosts 7,777 sats. It's because seven is the only number apart from zero that has two syllables. He's basically using the number to increase his time spent on his boost stage. Nice one. Try 77,777 next time, mate. Bitpunk FM with 4,242, boosting for PO boxes. Kotongan with 4,200. I think there's some hardcore bowlers who would be happy if the show went as long as Red Bar. Like, if they were eight, nine, ten, eleven hours. Could you imagine the post production on that? I don't want to imagine it.
Chill now one with 2,222. Sat Max, great discussion on v for v with the wolf, but you're still a cunt. So Spencer, bringing plebs together over value, sovereignty, hyperlocal, and above all, distrust and loathing for government. Beautiful. Right. That's the top boost. Thank you to everyone who's been boosting. Thank you also to Dave, Pleb to Polymath, Ian Vaughan, Wartime, Pyze, Bitpunk, and Cyborg. I really appreciate everyone who's been boosting and also everyone on the XMR chat. Thank you for supporting the show. I'd also like to thank our sponsors for supporting the show. Thank you to Foundation. Foundation make my favorite hardware, and they have something new coming very, very soon. They're working hard to bring out the new Passport Prime. It should be here in April. And if you haven't already checked it out, go back and listen to the Confab that I did with Bitcoin q and a and Zach.
They've built an open source platform that anyone can build apps on. The first app is actually gonna be built from Cake Wallet, our other sponsor. So I'm very excited to see that. I had one of these in my hand the other day when I went to Ben Gunn's, and it's really fucking nice. I'm excited to get my own. And if you haven't already seen these, go to foundation.xyz. Use the code ungovernable. Don't think there's any discount on these, but they will be on the original passport. So just try it anyway. It might do it. I still need to ask you and a about that. But foundation.xyz. Use the code ungovernable or click the link in the show notes to get a discount.
I'd also like to thank Cake Wallet for supporting the show. As I said, they're now gonna be bringing out the first app on this Passport Prime. It's gonna make it so much easier for anyone who wants to use a hardware signing device for their Monero. They also make it incredibly easy for anyone to use Bitcoin or Monero, connect to their own nodes, use spending tools, buy gift cards. Anyone who's actually using their Bitcoin and Monero should have this in their toolbox. If you haven't already checked it out, go to cakewallet.com. You can download and use this on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, Android, I think everything. You can use this on everything. So if you aren't already using it, try it out and join the 500,000 plus users that already rely on this.
That's it. Enjoy the show. Welcome back. Both of you together, Gabriel
[00:06:48] Unknown:
and Bob Lazar. Nice to have you back. Well, if I knew Urban was gonna be here, I I may have made other plans, but nice to see you, Max. Yeah. Very nice to see you.
[00:06:56] Unknown:
He snuck in. He saw the link and just thought, I'll be on this. Yeah. I thought, oh, there's a link in my inbox. I might just join in. No. It's nice to be with you. Long pass overdue. I I know we we planned this a few times, and it didn't for the three of us. Finally, we we made it happen with me being a bit late. I don't think it's gonna be worth it for the audience, but we'll see.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
I think it will. We got a lot to talk about. There's lots of weird stuff going on, and I also feel like there's a lot of stuff that's not being covered in a lot of the other podcasts. And I'm trying to get more people on. Like, I had a suspense around from bowl after bowl a couple of episodes ago. So trying to get people on who I respect what they're doing, and I've always respected what you guys do and trying to help people be more private, trying to help people be alert and be aware and not just listen to the same old bullshit all the time. So I'm sure we've got a lot to cover in this one. Absolutely. We're happy to talk about all sorts of things, alien abductions. Under Denver, there's a supercomputer run by the government that we should probably get into. Privacy stuff, Bitcoin Monero, artificial intelligence, you name it. Let's start with the easy one, like the Denver Airport. Yeah. Let's let's cover that in detail then. Go on. Yeah. So underneath the Denver Airport, there is a supercomputer that's going to render everything that I say in this episode about encryption and everything else completely irrelevant. So just remember that. Okay. Remember that and just shut the podcast off now because it's irrelevant. Yeah. Encryption doesn't work. You know? It's all pointless.
[00:08:19] Unknown:
Of course, if there was not this computer in Denver, then it would be all fine. Right? Okay. But because it exists, then it's game over. So yeah.
[00:08:29] Unknown:
But assuming they shut it down, you're gonna be fine. So maybe just listen to this episode, apply the advice, and hopefully, they should, and it's gonna be all good. Let's hope. Well, one of the things outside of what's going on in Denver that I wanted to cover don't really wanna go into too much Bitcoin stuff. We cover so much of it on the show anyway. Like, most listeners are relatively technically competent already. I wanted to get into some of the stuff that's outside of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency for people who wanna get some more freedom, separate themselves more from the state, allow themselves some more privacy, just not be swept along with everybody else. I think a lot of people come in, they find Bitcoin, and they're like, oh, I know how to secure a private key, and I know how to send a transaction. And now I'm a fucking cypherpunk, and I'm untouchable. And, like, some of them stay in that kind of delusion, and then others are like, okay. I've got a taste for some type of freedom and power, and I want more. And I know both of you guys go into a lot of this stuff, like, in the physical world or different ways to secure your data, the AI stuff we talked about a little bit, which would be one I'd like to cover because I'm starting to use it more and more. You wouldn't approve of how I'm using it at all, to be honest with that. I think a lot of people probably in that situation.
[00:09:47] Unknown:
Be cool to learn some tips and tricks. Where do you guys wanna start? Well, the one thing that I think a lot of people miss, especially if they're tech savvy, is they forget the physical privacy, and that's why I always start with that. And I do think it's important to consider who knows where you live and how often you're giving out your address and your real name, and you're having people scan your IDs because that's definitely a threat to many people, not just if your somebody comes in and tracks you down that you don't want at your house, but just the sheer amount of real life data that you're giving to your mechanic and to your rewards for your supermarket, things like this. You really want to be a minimalist and to really tamp down the physical threats. You just need to stop giving out your information and be aware of these things. That's why this is kind of the thing I talk about most or I try to talk about most certainly in my book and otherwise is physical privacy because I do think that is key. I find that a lot of people, you know, they have their battle station that they're sitting around and their three monitors, and they're like, yeah. I'm using CoinJoin, and I'm sending Monero now back and forth. Nobody knows anything. And then you get a knock at the door from Sally who knows exactly where you live. So that's also a threat, and I think people really need to be cognizant of that, especially in a world where we have all these crazy hate speech laws, especially in Europe where you have psychopaths still, ex lovers, and all these sorts of threats to our physical self. So that is something I think a lot of people need to step up on. Just today, I read the news that an ex lover traveled around
[00:11:10] Unknown:
700 miles
[00:11:11] Unknown:
to set on fire the house of his competitor. I but it was the ex lover. So ex lover, you know, drive 500 miles and then just set the house on fire as revenge. And that's something that you can have all the encryption in the world, but then if someone comes at your door, the threshold now to have someone showing up at your door is very low. You know, from the ex lover, the weirdos, you know. Asians in San Francisco have crime problems because they have a house that on the outside identifies them as being Asian, and they're more likely to be stolen from because they have higher net worth. There's all these sorts of things that you need to really consider. Right? You know, what kind of political things do you have outside your house? Would that potentially make you a target? Do you have creditors who might come and knock on your door? There's a lot of reasons why you want to be doing what I'm doing, which is I don't know what my address is. I've never seen the address of where I am right now. I don't have any packages sent here. I don't even know what the address is. So that is incredible peace of mind to have that physical privacy, and that allows you to do your battle station stuff and know that utility is not in my name, all this sort of stuff so that if you do slip up, you are still pretty protected. So that is a huge thing that I'd like to see more people do who are into digital privacies, get into physical privacy. Michael Bazell has a good book, Extreme Privacy. He talks about this stuff, and I have a book. I talk about it. But, yeah, that is a priority that people need to have. Also, recently in The United States, you had these break ins of these famous athletes. They have a game that's going on. There was a group of, I think it was, Chilean gang that went around just robbing from athletes who were in the middle of a game. How do they know where they live? Well, there's all kinds of ways that when you buy property, it reveals who you are, and maybe you've mentioned your house on Instagram or something. All these things build up a profile on you. And whether you're famous or not, it can have consequences. There's so much information out there. All the social media stuff, and you put your address on so many forms. As you rightly said, like, you can have these psychos or ex lovers and things like that. And sometimes it's both at the same time. And then you have the real psychopaths, which is the government, which always wants something, whether it's money or more information or whatever. And these hate speech laws in The UK are fucking
[00:13:11] Unknown:
scary. Not too far from where I live, there was a guy going around the other day with a massive knife going to different schools. He put a knife to a girl's throat and was trying to rape her. Young girl, complete fucking psychopath. They let him out. They just went, nah. You're alright. We'll let you out again. But if you say a mean thing, you can spend years in prison. I was gonna say, Max, don't don't mention don't mention any details about this person or or we might have to
[00:13:38] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:13:40] Unknown:
How dare you. That poor person. You're painting them in a bad light. It's fucking mental. And so when you know that you're dealing with that sort of stuff, you're absolutely right. Your physical security matters more than anything else, and people are very willy nilly with it. It's almost an afterthought. I guess a lot of people probably need to sort of start from fresh because there's a level where it's okay. A lot of people have your address, and it's tied to you in all these different ways. Like, a big example, perfect example would be like the ledger league. That'd be a perfect example. Okay. That's not good. You have now some group of people who could do you harm, who know you probably have some cryptocurrency
[00:14:18] Unknown:
of some form. They know your name. They know your address. They can turn up at any time. That's a fucking huge problem. What do you do? Well, you probably should move. No. Exactly. So you have people at home. They're thinking, oh, I've got let's say you order your ledger. Now as you said, there's your name and there's your address, and it's attached to a Bitcoin transaction. Obviously, the state sees that, but also if there's a leak or a breach, that can also be exposed. There was literally a group of people in The United States who went around tracking down data just like this and other breach data from crypto exchanges, and they were going and torturing people based on this information. And one lady, I remember this, this has been seared into my mind. They were holding her at gunpoint, and she had lost so much money from them before that that she asked them to shoot her. That's how discouraged she was. Oh, yeah. I heard this. But and they didn't, though, did they? They didn't. So we had an entire episode on this how using a KYC crypto exchange can get you tortured on watchmen privacy. It's super important to realize that you just shouldn't be sending things to your home address, especially not crypto related items because there are consequences to that. That's why one of the things that we created on escapethetechnocracy.com, Urban created a backup kit to replace the need for these titanium seed phrase kits so that you can print it at home. You can purchase it in Bitcoin or Monero, and you can print it off and laminate it and have a way to have this useful backup tool without having your address and name attached to that transaction. I remember you talking to me about that actually, Evan. It was a nice idea of that. Yeah. So when we see how people lose their Bitcoin, Bitcoin, their crypto, and let's say they lose their password in general since you don't want to talk to me about Bitcoin, which is fine for us, it's usually because they forgot. It's not because
[00:15:51] Unknown:
the house burned down or they lost the paper or they didn't write. One of the thing that we preach is rather than having one backup made out of titanium that you bury in your garden and then you forgot where you put it, have three copy in cheap laminated paper hidden in your whatever you think is fit, and that's gonna be more robust than the one Titanium. And as Gabrielle said, you know, when you ship those items, then it's associated that, oh, you have crypto or you're interested in that. And if you buy Titanium, then it means you might have a lot. And, you know, you spoke about Ledger, but to give them a bit of a break there, one of their executive got some serious torture going on in his hand. I think he got mutilated. They definitely also were on the receiving end. And this is why privacy is just crucial. Like, it it is very, very important. And, you know, yesterday, I had to pay someone in cryptocurrency. They send me an invoice. I pay, and then I say, okay. Please can you send me another invoice for the other thing that I must pay you? I was playing, you know, the naive person. The person was like, oh, why do I need to send you another address? Don't you like the one I sent you? And I said, well, I've heard that hacker can know how much money you have. And then, his answer was no. The account is not in my name. You know? It's a ledger. And I said, I know, but, you know, it gives a false sense of security. That is really, really horrible. So if you put all of this together, then you end up with, you know, gangs targeting people. And this lady, in this case, she was targeted first by online scammers because they knew how much money she had. And then she got targeted by physical robber that came into her place. And this is when she said, you know, she was so mad at this whole situation that she said, you know what? You might just won't shoot me because I don't want to live this. They didn't. I think they left her. They kind of had pity, but still, this shows you that it's just, like, insane. It's really scary because you see this clear risk. And then on the other side, you know, all the good tools are shut down or stopped. People stopped using them because they were scared. So it's really not an issue. There's the risk of personal attack, which is the risk of
[00:17:50] Unknown:
personal attack, which is the risk of the individual, but what I see beyond that is there's a real risk that if people don't start to learn and do things properly, they just go, fuck it. Do you know what? There's so many attacks. I'm so scared of actually taking control of my own life and my own privacy that I'm just gonna buy an ETF because put a fucking gun to my head then. That's not a problem. No one comes to your house and puts a gun to your head and goes, send me your fucking Tesla stocks. That's not happening. So that's why people need to talk about this stuff and be very clear about it and give good guidance because otherwise,
[00:18:25] Unknown:
people are just gonna be like, fuck it. I'll just own an ETF because I no longer care about what Bitcoin Bitcoin really stands for, and I'm not capable or can't be bothered or it's too much risk. Yeah. So just to give some solutions here for people. Let's say that they want to do the right thing and they're gonna buy the foundation passport. Well, see if you can track these guys down at a live event, a conference, or something, buy it there. No association to your address or just take out some kind of postal box or something like this. Have it shipped there or ship it to a friend's house or get permission from somebody, but you could have it shipped somewhere else. Pick it up there so that there's no attach. There are simple solutions. You just have to recognize that. What I do is I say, look. Under no circumstances am I typing or speaking my the address of where I go to sleep at night. And so when I make that statement, I say, okay. Well, I have to find solutions. Okay. So how am I gonna get this? How am I gonna get that? Can I make use of Amazon drop boxes? And we don't suggest buying hardware wallets from Amazon, but for other things, can I get a PO box or something like this? Can I ship it over here? Can I do this? Can I just buy more things in person? There are simple solutions. You just have to make a stand, and then everything will adapt around that. If you say, I'm not giving my real email address, then what do you do? Well, you get a Proton account and you have multiple email addresses, and then you start to use simple login. So you have the ability to give out email addresses on the fly. And in general, you just don't give out your email address to just anybody. So there are solutions. You just have to set the groundwork, and then you will adapt around it. That's how I operate with privacy. It's a good flag in the sand. This is something that will not be crossed. That's a good way to look at it rather than trying to flippy floppy,
[00:19:51] Unknown:
this would probably be alright. And then you get creative, and then you find all kinds of solutions, and then it becomes fun. It becomes fun at that point. Yeah. But also, don't let the perfection be the enemy of good. Look at, for instance, PO box. Let's say you're like, you know, in my country, I cannot open a PO box without KYC information. Now you might feel like, oh, I shouldn't do it. But if you think about okay. So now you have a company that has your real address and your real information. Right? The PO Box company. And then you have the hardware wallet manufacturer that has your PO Box address. Now you need to leak two database, and you need to somehow stitch those two information together. In the case of ledger, hack or the Trezor, any data leak, then it's your PO box. And maybe by the time you can just change PO box It's like a physical VPN, basically. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. In a way, it's like this. So you should not let the perfection be the enemy of good. Because sometimes I see, like, some of our competitors in the privacy tutorial space, they say, oh, you know, they they go this hardcore mode, and they take the black pill. And we're like, no. No. No. No. No. This is already a huge improvement over the previous situation, you know, because now your data is at two different location.
Even if the company knows who you are, it's it's split the the responsibility. And you can always change PO box. You know? You could rotate them if you want, if that's your time. So this would be less of a problem. And those are some of the stuff that we go in-depth. But, yeah, I mean, I have to say it's it's really it feels like the whole world is just becoming way more oppressive. You know? You had the Telegram CEO arrested. Not just crypto. You know? It's like the entire thing is becoming more oppressive and hardcore and very dystopian
[00:21:26] Unknown:
to to say the least. But it's important not to yield to it and get to, like, I don't like the black pill stuff where it's, oh, well, we just all fucked. Just fuck it. I'll just roll over there. That's not cool. Having these guides and what you're doing with escape the technocracy and allowing people these steps that allow them to take back control step by step and inch by inch. Like you said, it doesn't have to be perfect.
[00:21:49] Unknown:
It's just slowly get better. Like, are you more private than you were yesterday or the week before or the year before? And if you're going in the right direction, you're doing better than most. And another solution talking about creativity, I know you have a hardware wallet sponsor, but I personally don't really use a hardware wallet. It's optional. Right? People will say, oh, you have to have one. Well, you know, you don't or you could have better operational security on your computer or you could just use a GrapheneOS phone that you have, a cheap Pixel phone, just for, let's say, backing up your your keys or a nice little offline computer that never touches the Internet. So there are also solutions. And if you purchase one of those devices, that is absolutely just a regular purchase. There are solutions like that as well. Or build a seed signer. There you go. Seed signer. The other option because that's off the shelf part. There are certainly options.
[00:22:33] Unknown:
I think with stuff like that, it ranges from, I'm not gonna tell a 60 year old boomer friend who has no technical chops at all. I'm not gonna say to them, yeah, build an offline computer rather than use a PO box or a business address of a friend to have hardware that's specifically designed so that you don't fuck it up. I would never suggest that to them. I'd say, no. Use the hardware. Don't even try it. But someone who's much more technical, then they're in the position to say, oh, no. I'll build a seed sign or I'll build this offline computer or I'll use graph whatever it is. Don't try and do stuff when you're a retard. So that's kinda what I try and do. Fair enough. I think it also depends, as you said, on your pro efficiency. But considering the cost of having to face a physical attack and and someone showing up at your door, consider going to a conference and buying. Often, they have discounts. You can meet other people in that space. You know? So consider just taking the nearest
[00:23:25] Unknown:
conference to your place and just buy it from there, and that's valid. Most manufacturer, they will have some kind of place where you can buy it marketplace of the conference, and that's it. I think it's a very valid option to do. But let's be honest, Max. Bitcoin, Monero, this is boring. This is boring stuff. I hope that I never have to think about these things again after this conversation.
[00:23:45] Unknown:
So do the basics, secure
[00:23:47] Unknown:
your stuff, but it's just a means to an end. But what's the end, Max? What's the end? Well, for me, it's just to be left the fuck alone as much as possible, to have as little interference in my life from people I don't want there, mainly government and councils and all the shit around that. I'd like to find a way to fuck them all off as much as possible. The technocracy. Yes. Exactly that. That thing. Exactly that. I think that's a lot of people's goal eventually. A lot of people are so busy, their head down, scurrying around that they don't really think about it. People are like, oh, I wanna make money or Bitcoin's gonna go to this value, and I'm gonna be rich. It's like, what's rich? Are you actually wealthy if you've got money, but your family's still threatened because you're in a home that you've given all your details away to, and the government's fucking stamping all over you for all the taxes in the world. And you're in that sort of situation where you're always up against these fucking demons
[00:24:43] Unknown:
who are just sucking the life out of you. I would argue you're probably a lot more wealthy if you have less money, but you have more freedom and privacy. Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants. That's Mhmm. Epic tettis. Absolutely agree. Bitcoin and Monero and these sorts of things are useful tools. Let's say use them when you can. But the real stuff, the real juicy stuff is everything else that's happening and how that allows you to have this freedom in your life and have your family and explore other things. Right? One of the things that we've done on Watchmen Privacy is we just started exploring all kinds of other topics. We're into AI. We're talking about what's happening in South Africa. They just passed an expropriation act where basically the government can take anything at any time. Amazing. Right? Or as it's called in Africa, Tuesday. And there's just all kinds of other interesting things happening in the world. Bitcoin and Monero use them as the tools, but there's so many other interesting things out there. Should we just talk about briefly what you're doing with Escape the Technocracy?
[00:25:40] Unknown:
I know it's been evolving since you guys first spoke to me about it. I know you've been adding more chapters or courses or whatever you would label it as, but it seems to be pretty wide ranging. How many sections have you got in there now? So the website is escapethetechnocracy.com.
[00:25:55] Unknown:
We set out to have a marketplace where we could sell, broadly speaking, privacy tutorials. It's evolved from there and to allow people to pay Monero and Bitcoin and Fiat if they want and have minimal data collection, we just need an email from you, basically. And so it's amazing how few places just stores like that exist. So we've been practicing what we preach along the way, and what we sell is video tutorials. We also have some books on there as well. And we're just teaching people how do you get on to Linux. We have a great Linux tutorial in our main course. Mhmm. And then what is Internet privacy? What does that consist of? How do we use our VPNs and our Tor and all the rest of it? And we kind of hold your hand, but we do kind of get advanced as well. What does ProtonMail do for us? How can we use things like Madera and Bitcoin in a sovereign way? How can we use AI in a sovereign way? So our main course now has eight modules. We even have a course a module on escaping the food technocracy. And Urban poked me. He was like, yeah. Let's do this. Yeah. Absolutely. Talking about seed oils, talking about getting your good pans and, you know, distilling your water and all these sorts of things. So we just have a module on that. So we're talking about the technocracy built large. Mhmm. That manifests in all kinds of ways. Right? Like, on my show, I talk about psychopaths, Not something that a lot of people talk about. So I'll talk about psychopaths, and then we'll talk about what's happening in different parts of the world, how AI is woke, and it's leading us in this bad direction, and how to uncensor it. So we have an entire course on AI as well. And we talk about this stuff for free on our show, so I don't want people think that we need to come by ourselves. We have AI course. We have a general privacy escaping the technology course. We have a Bitcoin sovereignty course. I think that's probably the best thing for you or to recommend somebody to get into using Bitcoin in a sovereign way, especially post Whirlpool. That's a really dynamic course. And then we have one on cybersecurity. We talk about cybersecurity a lot, how to hack proof yourself so you can lock down your normal life, and then you can do all these other normal things. That covers the gamut of what we discussed. There's kind of something for everybody, and our philosophy is always how do we give out minimal information? How do we be sovereign with our data? Mhmm. K. We're not trusting this third party antivirus. We're not trusting these other things. We have different solutions. We have the sovereignty mindset
[00:27:50] Unknown:
baked very deep down into our philosophy and our recommendations. And like you said, you're already talking about this stuff. You're putting that information out on the podcast. People can learn about this stuff already, but this is just a way to refine it down and hold people's hands, step things up. I see that as, like, a value for value. It is a lot of work putting out podcasts and all this stuff that you guys do, and you need to pay the bills. So this is a really nice way of doing it
[00:28:16] Unknown:
and giving value back to the people who are listening. Of course, it's a way for people to contribute if they like the show. And, also, we talk about stuff we don't talk about on the show. That's just inevitably what happens when you're trying to make money on a show. You also get to the point in a podcast where you talk about all the interesting stuff in the first ten episodes. I've noticed this about me. I'm like, oh, I really wanna talk about these things. So in the first twenty episodes, you've kind of covered everything you wanna cover. Mhmm. And then after that, you start pursuing minutiae. Right? These last readouts of minutiae. And then by, like, episode 1,000, it's like, yeah. We're talking about this super, very specific kinda thing. Yeah. And somebody who's just coming in at that point, like, what what is this show about? Right? Because they're not gonna go scroll back all the way to the beginning. So I have started diverting. If you really wanna mainline all this stuff, the best thing to do, of course, is to follow a course that has been carefully structured through dozens and hundreds of hours of research. And Urban himself has a background in cybersecurity and all this good stuff as well. So he's the technical adviser. So you're in really good hands in following one of these tutorials. And then you can go to the show and kind of, hey. Let's talk about this random topic and this interesting thing happening in the world. And I just had an episode on Soviet economics and how that attempted to work from an expert on the field. So we just kind of go in weird directions on the podcast these days. Mhmm. And then the big stuff, the fundamental stuff is on the escape the technocracy website. Cool. Well, I'm gonna put a link to it in the show notes, obviously. It's well worth taking a look at and And we have a code Oh, do you? Ungovernable. What does that do? That's going to get them 25% off in the first few days. Oh. And then after the first few days, after this hits, it'll be at 15%.
[00:29:45] Unknown:
So either way, you'll get a good discount, but you do wanna act on that. Okay. Very nice. Go and do that. Listen to the show. Support the show because there are very, very few shows out there who are actually putting out good content that actually matters and isn't sponsored by lying, cheating, cunts, part of just a big circle jerk wankfest. So if you want these sort of shows to stay around, go and support them. Psychopaths. Can you talk to me a little bit about that episode? I missed it. What did you go into there? Is it, like, how to avoid them? How to work out if you are one?
[00:30:16] Unknown:
Well, if you are one, then I don't have a solution for that. Okay. Frankly, I don't think you care if you are one because that's the fundamental attribute of a psychopath is that you don't have a conscience. And this is a biological designation. Right? This is a a reality. This is you're missing certain chemicals in your brain that allow you to have empathy. That seems kinda like a small thing or it's like, no. It changes your reality. Suddenly, you cannot look at others as things in and of themselves. So you can't follow the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You can't follow the non aggression principle. You are literally incapable at a biological level of comprehending these ethical systems.
And so what do you do? Like, what is the alternative? There's some really interesting things that happen when you can't conceive of things outside of your own psyche. You don't have a good sense of the future, so you have immediate gratification. You don't have any sense of love or attachment to others. So what do you do? You pursue power and coercion. As you can imagine, these people, this 1% of the population approximately, they get into positions of power, and they go to war with countries when they do. And they're at the top of corporations, and they're telling you that their stuff is not toxic when it really is toxic. So these people have fundamentally altered the course of history. Look throughout history, whether it's Stalin, Pol Pot, you name it. These people have altered history because of their ability to be ruthless. They essentially have the biological benefits of being able to be ruthless. This is a alternative human. I wouldn't even call them human. This is an alternative species. Lizards. Yes. This is a predatory species, and this is not even conspiracy. Right? Go read a book called Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us. Psychopaths are one percent of the population. They commit fifty percent of serious crimes.
This is a very serious thing. And so in my episodes, I'm talking about why don't we understand this? Why has this been confused? And what happens when we not only understand psychopaths, but we apply that to the world? It changes our view of history. Suddenly we look at governments and we say, oh, they're literally incapable of doing things in our interest. So that whole facade of progressives and such, oh, you know, at least it's some greater good. No. It's not some greater good. That's like an impossibility. The psychopath cannot conceive of the greater good. They're doing things just for their amusement, just for their pleasure. It really does change the way you view the world. I remember the first time I read a book on psychopaths. I was in the library. I was like, you know what? I moved into a corner and so I could see everybody in front of me because it was a disturbing
[00:32:31] Unknown:
paradigm shift of how you understand the world. Suddenly, one in a hundred people that you interact with on any given day is not a human. It's very high. This person sees you as prey. This is how psychopathic experts talk about them is they are the predators and you are the prey. Mhmm. That is their biological role in the world. It's very high 1%. When you think about that, you go through your day and you interact with a hundred people or you see a hundred people, like, one of those people is a predator. They have absolutely no empathy for you. They will just do whatever they can to take and get power. That's a disturbing thing because also they're good at it. They get very good
[00:33:07] Unknown:
at tricking people into thinking that they're nice and that they're normal and everything else, and then so it's you never know when you're dealing with one until it's possibly too late. Well, that's exactly it because another characteristic of these predators is that they have a different brain structure. They are able to lie and have a certain charisma in a way that we can't. So they lie. They say things. When they speak, it is to make people, the person that the the prey that they're speaking to, it's to make them feel good. It's to make them feel something. That is how their brain operates and everything they say they're gonna lie to you, they're gonna tell you this and that, and you'll get little hints, right? You'll get little hints along the way if you're perceptive. But what you don't realize is that you're not talking to a human. You're talking to somebody who is manipulating you in certain ways. They're amazing chameleons. You might say, oh, I would recognize a psychopath, you know, a mile away. No. You wouldn't because they're so charismatic. They're the leader. They're the ones saying all the right things, but they're saying exactly what you want to hear and their brain is designed to do that. They are the top apex predator in the world, and they have all the advantages in their corner. For example, there have been a lot of psychopathic serial killers that go after women. What has been noted is that they strategically targeted women women who they noticed were insecure. They had this instinct. Okay. I'm gonna go after the insecure woman and I'm going to flatter her. I'm gonna do all these things. And these serial killers who have dozens of bodies to their name, they've done precisely that. And they're very strategic. And you can only imagine the woman is approached by this man who's confident and who's saying all the right things and all this kind of stuff, how she could fall prey to that. It's a very disturbing thing to recognize the psychopathic charm. There's a psychopath expert and she says, I liken the psychopath's charm to other attributes of predators in nature where they're just they kind of overwhelm you and overpower you and mesmerize you in a certain way, like the snake looking at you. Or that fish, you know, the ones that's right at the bottom of the ocean, right where it's dark, and they have, like, that little light that goes out in front of their massive jaws and and teeth. They lure the prey in and then they've got you. It's like that. Exactly. That's it. And we don't realize that we're those fish looking at that light because we think that the politician or the corporate leader or whoever or the person in our life, you know, they're just, they're a little bit different. And here's another thing about psychopaths, you it's not curable. It's not a curable disease. It's not a disease necessarily. In fact, the psychopaths think that you're the one with the disease. Why are you so empathetic with these other people? Why can't you make these tough decisions? Why can't you go through life and just get rid of your emotions? Your emotions are tying you down. You get depressed. You get attached. All these sort of things. For the psychopath, it's strategic.
Oh, no. I don't want this person. Done. Never talk to them again. Never talk to them again. Oh, I need to fire 10,000 people. Done. Easy. No guilt whatsoever. They sleep perfectly well at night. There are some interesting studies that have been done where they will have a psychopath and a non psychopath, and they will tell them, hey. You're gonna get an electrical shock in a few seconds. And they study the brain patterns for the psychopath, perfectly normal. Nothing changes. For the regular person, they have anticipation, a build up. Their brains are completely different. They do not react to the world the same way that we do. And they are the apex predators and they have been winning this war against humanity for all the time. And the decision making skills are gonna be better because they're not tied down by this emotional worry and all that stuff. They're just thinking clearly. Yeah. That's weird. And then what the fuck do you do? Like, you know, we have a kid that's one or something like that. And This is where I'll be careful about giving psychological advice, but my understanding is that this is not a treatable thing. So if you see something like this in your life, you've got to go and talk to somebody and get all the information
[00:36:29] Unknown:
because this is going to be a huge problem in your life. Huge problem. Also, maybe one thing, like, as someone who have helped a victim of domestic abuse, a relationship is not a treatment. You know, being in a relationship is not gonna help. I've seen so many cases, and and maybe this is a bit tangential, but there are so many people who think, oh, if I love him or her more or I stay, no. It it's not gonna work. And you can see throughout the ages, it's something that humanity recognized for a very long time. It's not new. Every culture, every civilization, every tribe had it, and you can literally read through the text of Inuit or Aztec or Incas or Egyptian, what they were saying about psychopath. And often it's just like the one who will always cause trouble, will never listen to the elder, and will want to go out with all the women. It's kind of always this description. It's it's kind of interesting how people describe. If you detect a scenario like this, stay away, protect yourself, and be aware that you cannot win this. This is unwinnable.
I've read once I read two things that quite scary. The first one was, you know, some interview. I think it was a even a UK Serial Killer, and he was describing to a journalist how he was walking on a street, and then he just stabbed someone like this. You know? The journalist asked why? And he said, oh, you know, if you would have done the same, because they looked at me weirdly. And this is when you realize it's completely different thinking. And the other thing is there was a researcher. I cannot find anymore the name, but he was a psychopath. But in a weird way, he was self aware, and he was trying really hard to not do nasty stuff. And I remember that he was saying, like, he was watching the coffee machine, and he was like, how funny it could be, you know, to put salt instead of sugar as a joke, you know. And he was describing all this stuff that I don't know. Maybe you think once, and then you're, oh, that's stupid. Let's not do it. But for him, it was a constant struggle of, no. That is not nice. But he had to basically teach himself. And, of course, this is, like, very, very rare.
Most of them, they don't see anything wrong. And as Gabriel said, they see us as wrong. But I think the first thing is recognize that this happens. And I think in a certain extent, ancient society, you know, ancient culture that were not politically correct, it doesn't mean they were better able to deal with those people, but they were better able to say, yeah. This is something happened. We know about it. These are the people that you know, when we're talking about the concern with having your address out there, the concern with your digital privacy,
[00:38:53] Unknown:
the concern of the things that you go through with your courses, These are the people who are the problem. They could be the people that turn up at your door, whether that is government, whether that is someone with a gun or a knife, whether it's someone who starts to socially engineer and work their way into your life. As soon as you put yourself out there as a target, these things
[00:39:14] Unknown:
are like sharks. They smell blood in the water, and they'll be after you. And so I guess the best way to avoid these people who are very fucking good at what they do is to stay off the map as much as possible. Don't give your information out as much as possible. That's a big part of it. And to recognize that when there's, let's say, a psychopathic serial killer went up and stabbed somebody for no reason, and when they asked them about it later, they didn't even remember. Like, it didn't even happen. It wasn't even worth remembering. And this is what happens with the psychopaths actually is there was a psychologist talking to one and he got the guy to admit that he had 10 bodies to his name. And the guy said, oh, yeah. I guess I never thought about it. Like, what? But the important thing is that's a headline. What about when these people are at the top of corporations or governments? My idea that corporations are doing good and as hardworking people, as Ayn Rand heroes has been severely diminished in recent years. I don't really think that's the case, unfortunately. I look at corporations as an extension of the government in a lot of cases these days, and they interact with us much more often than government these days. Whether that's somebody at the top of corporation who's making this, hey. Let's go after these people who are calling out these food dyes and how they're cancerous. Let's tamp that down and lobby so that our foods are not banned even though we know they're killing people. Yeah. When psychopaths are at the top of corporations or governments, that's when they alter societies, they alter history. Mhmm. What I'm trying to tell people is understand that this is an entity that you are vying with, that there are these people who have what's called the mask of sanity, but they are very morally insane underneath. And this is part of our reality. Yeah. It's a good point. As they rise up and have more power, they're harder to touch. They're more protected,
[00:40:39] Unknown:
often just legally. And a lot of these corporations and governments have kind of really the same thing. They come up with these clever ways to make you enslave yourself. Like, a lot of the laws and a lot of the rules and a lot of the systems that are accepted by most people are fabrications. They're false. They're clearly made by, you can call it evil or psychopath or satanist or whatever you wanna call it, demons, basically. And they're there to
[00:41:07] Unknown:
take basically suck the soul out of most people. That's what they're there for. And if we look at a continent that has had basically given completely into this will to power, that is Africa. And I've been working on something on Africa, all the abuses of the dictators in Africa over the twentieth century alone. We're talking about tens and tens of millions of bodies. In a society like that where might makes right and there's rank amorality across the continent, what happens is these psychopaths will rise to power. They will become the leaders. Of course, when you see them, they're on TV and they're saying, oh, we're this unfortunate post colonial country. We're still suffering from the oppression of European colonization these seventy years later. Now this person is probably having people be tortured as he's saying that, but he's going to go on TV and say the most compelling thing. He knows all the narratives. He knows how to appeal to your sensibilities. He can't feel them themselves, but he knows if I say these things, I'm not only going to be okay, I'm going to be valorized in the media. I might win a Nobel Peace Prize even though I'm over here torturing 10,000 people at a time. As Gabriel said, we are preparing something to talk about this and we are gathering documentation. And it was a case in the eighties, I think, where I think it's in Liberia.
[00:42:16] Unknown:
Some rebel group take over the country, then they kill and torture the ex president. They first believe that he might be protected by witchcraft. So then they start to cut his limbs and stuff, and I won't go in much more detail because it's kind of graphics. There is actually a video. So not only they do that, there is a video that shows them doing this. And in the end, the guy was, you know, like, killed and dumped somewhere on on a street. And then they just go on TV, and they lie about it. They say, no. We didn't no. We never no. No. No. No. You literally see the tape. Right? And they they will completely deny and but I would say those are the less subtle because it's clear, you know, like, those are the less ambitious maybe or but imagine the same type of complete disregard for life, but then being very good at hiding it. And this is, like, the really, really scary part of it. When you see things like this, we don't have to go as far back in time as this. You see it now with certain measure that were taken during a certain event that I don't know if we can, talk about it since, you're gonna release this on YouTube. You can talk about anything here, mate. I don't give a fuck if YouTube strike us. I don't care. Oh, okay. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, we have seen during COVID, right, how obviously, you know, they were, like Mhmm. Telling you to not get outside while they had parties, while they they were doing stuff. You know, they rationalize. They say, oh, no. But, you know, it was and, of course, if you rationalize, then you can rationalize everything. And but at the end of the day, it doesn't change. And you can see there were, like, certain measure that were taken during the this pandemic that were, I think, clearly made to hurt people. I think there was some of them, you know, it was people trying to figure what the hell was going on. But Mhmm. I agree. Some others, there was a certain sadistic aspect to it. You didn't follow those our little made up rules. We're gonna make you suffer.
We're gonna cut every single escape that you have to make sure that you if you come in this world thinking, you know, everybody is gonna be together and come by, You see how this is inhumane? It's not possible. But, no, it is humane. There are humans that are capable to do that, and psychopaths are one of them. And that is a problem, right, that happened. So, yeah, that's definitely, one of the
[00:44:26] Unknown:
really scary aspect of psychopathy and its impact on on the world. Tying that into AI, because I wanna go there as well. My assumption with most of these large corporations, tech companies, certainly governments, is they are mainly controlled by these type of psychopaths as a general rule, which leads me on to, like, as we lean more into AI and this kind of tech, I give potentially more of our information up and more of our data up. That's potentially quite dangerous. I know you guys are sort of talking about that already, and maybe there are ways to do this in a more sovereign way, whether it's running your own AI models or however it is you do it or finding ways to protect your privacy. But it's fucking useful. It's so useful that I find myself just going, I don't wanna live without this.
So can you give some tips and ideas of how you're thinking about AI and how you're thinking about its use and for people who don't wanna give all their data away to these psychopaths?
[00:45:31] Unknown:
So AI is a psychopath. If you think about what we talked about with psychopaths, when you have empathy, what is this? Well, it's a biological designation of chemicals that most people have, not everybody has. This is not a thing in the universe, though. This doesn't exist necessarily in nature. If aliens come to visit, we don't need to assume that they will have these same chemicals that give us empathy. AI is machine. It's a machine. Right? It's code. It doesn't have empathy either. So if you think back to Terminator, when our guy reveals to Sarah Connor, like, what happened in the future, he finally tells her. This is what he says. He says, defense network computers, new, powerful, hooked into everything, trusted to run it all. They said it got smart. A new order of intelligence. Then it saw all people as a threat, not just the ones on the other side. It decided our fate in a microsecond, extermination.
That is psychopathic thinking. Right? That is technocratic psychopathic thinking where forget others as in and of themselves, forget the sanctity of life. I'm gonna do what's in my best interest, period. So Skynet and AI will lead to this kind of psychopathic killer AI. I don't see how that would not be the case. Now before we get to that point, it might not be possible. I think we should be on guard against that. We do have these tools that are in front of us. They're not Skynet. These large language models, these art AI's, it's not Skynet. Now will it lead to Skynet? Potentially. We never know. If Skynet is possible, then we are funding its production by investing in these tools. So I think it's important that we do this in a private way, not just to protect ourselves, but to prevent SkyMed. And what we talk about in our AI resistance course is how to do this. Right? How to host it locally, how to do it privately because when you use ChatGPT, this is a black box. This is closed AI as as Urban likes to call it, not open AI. It's not open source. We don't know what's going on. What we do know, what's pretty clear is that anything you type in there is getting collected, has the ability to be collected, and probably is, and probably is being used to train these next models.
So you shouldn't be using regular vanilla chat GPT and uploading your documents and saying any personal things, and Urban has I'm sure he'll tell you he's had problems recently just using the service with a VPN, so he's actually stopped using. Chat GPT is not an option. Fortunately, there are some alternatives out there. We do have free and open source models. We do have alternative services like Venice AI. I've talked to these people. Now you're trusting them to be doing what they say they're doing, but they say that they're not collecting your data and these sorts of things. And if you wanna go to the next step further, then you can self host your own AI on your own computer. This is absolutely possible, especially with, you know, really robust free and open source models, AI models like DeepSeek that just got released. You can actually run a version of these things on your own computer. You know, that's the Bitcoin or Ethos is let's run these things ourselves, and we can absolutely do that with AI. And that's really the ultimate solution. And then there's a bunch of in between steps that we can take as well for more convenience.
[00:48:14] Unknown:
When you talk about that extreme level of maybe it's not extreme, but, like, running your own dedicated server that has your own AI on there and just using that, presumably, that has to be quite a powerful machine to get close to matching what you're getting from something like ChatGPT. I mean, my experience with ChatGPT has been pretty astounding. Like, I know a lot of people say, oh, it's not that great. But, like, for me, a lot of the stuff where I'm like, oh, I have to put together an email. I'm a dyslexic fuck. This is roughly what I wanna say. Can you just wank it up and make it sound good? And it just fucking spits out, like, incredible way better than I could do if I sat there all day. Or, like, can you just research through this thing and find any discrepancies? Or it's really fucking useful.
If I want something to be that useful and run my own hardware, what type of investment in time and money are you really talking? I will answer this since
[00:49:07] Unknown:
it's a more technical question. The first good news well, depending on which side you are is the requirement to run those machine, not only technology becomes better and better and better, but also the technical requirement to run those model goes lower and lower. Someone was able to run a smaller version, one of the smallest model of those AI, on a Windows 98. Already in '98, in theory, we could have run those AI, which is quite surprising. So now we are at the stage where even Raspberry Pi are powerful enough to run the smaller one. Now to be able to do what you just described, I think we first need to demystify a bit ChargeGPT. You know, ChargeGPT is just a bunch of GPU in some warehouse, And if you also have GPU in a warehouse, you're gonna be able to have the same. Right? It's not magical. You know? So it's certainly possible. Now in term of investment, it really depends on the threshold that you have. How long are you willing to wait between two words that are generated? So you could run even the most high end model on a laptop, but then you might wait two hours to get one word out of it. So there is your tolerance for that. There is, how much you want your computer to suffer. When I'm running it on my old laptop, Gabriela, who is trying to convince me to buy a new one, I always wait, you know, like, like, oh, I need to wait five minutes to get the answer. I would say for less than 10,000, you could get a pretty decent machine that answer your question in a good way. And even less than that, like, our recommendation so we have an entire course talking about this, and we also explain, like, in detail what type of GPU and their difference, etcetera, etcetera. And it's one of the course that we have on escapethetechnocracy.com if people are interested. But you want to look for the the GPU that have the most VRAM, and you want to have this number as high as possible. So eight is probably not enough. You want, like, 16 or 24, if possible. And with this, you can have a a decent performance, and you can answer test. We tried one of those model, you know, to analyze a book, you know, where you just give the book, and then you can have a personalized AI. It can answer question about the book. So this can be extremely useful in a scenario where you want to it's as if you are talking to someone who has read the book. And if it's hosted locally, you could do this with your own document without being afraid that it's gonna be used to suck up all your data. So the software itself is called one of the simplest to to run is called GPT for all, and you can just run it on pretty much any computer for the last ten years. It's gonna work. If you like this, then, you know, you can always invest. But I would say we are at a point I think someone was able to run DeepSeek, which is the Chinese version that was released recently, on hardware that would cost less than 20 k US dollars. So it's not Mhmm. Potentially, you could run it for your company. If you wanted to, you could run it. I know someone works in raw matters, you know, like copper, iron, mineral, and raw material broker.
And then they sell it to, like, companies that make electronics, cables, stuff stuff of the and they have an AI. And, you know, they just bought some big ass server, and this way, it could run through all their data, and they are not afraid that this is, you know, going all to charge GPT. That's a good point. Yeah. I just wanna add something to that that you do not need a $10,000
[00:52:30] Unknown:
server to run some version of this. What I've been saying is for that amount, you can have the optimal version. So that's pretty impressive. However, on our tutorial, and I'm looking right now, I have a virtual machine pulled up. This has, like, four gigs of RAM. It's not communicating with the GPU of the computer at all. And this is answering questions for me. I just asked it. I said, I've been bit by a cobra. What do I do? And it generated a response like, oh, we're so sorry to hear you've been bit by a cobra. It gives me this response and it answered it in twenty seconds. And there's different models. There's different versions of this. You can absolutely get a very interesting respectable AI model on even minimal equipment. And then you can also go up to what Urban's talking about, but there's so many versions of this. There's so many models that you can run. Some of them have lower parameters, so they'll be a little bit less sophisticated.
They're not good at maybe some things, but you can absolutely and you should absolutely be using some of the stuff and testing it out on whatever device you have because you can get pretty far. These are totally offline by the way. One of the examples I show in our course is, okay here I've turned off my internet connection, this is literally a five gigabytes model that we're querying, like, nothing else. Literally nothing else. And this thing knows everything in Wikipedia, okay, which is, like, dozens and dozens of gigabytes. Like, how does it know this stuff? And that's the magic of AI, is that it has learned the stuff. You know, its neural network has processed these things such that it is duplicating words, and it's doing all these sorts of things that it can store massive amounts of information and knowledge in a very small amount. And then it can give you answers about specific things in a really cool way. Very useful technology, and there's a huge spectrum. Like, I'm happy with the one I'm looking right now on my VM. Like, I'm pleased with the answer that I was given just now. Just saying, like, if you have a Umbrel as your Bitcoin node and you want to try,
[00:54:04] Unknown:
you can go and install one of those self hosted AI, and you can just, like, try it out and you will see. And assuming you're running this on a Raspberry Pi or maybe a slightly more powerful machine, this is going to give you a good idea of what is possible. The $10,000 server, this is more like to replicate the OpenAI experience where you have it really fast. Also, you know, from Europe, there have been, you know, interesting research done in Europe. There is this new one called LeChat. Now LeChat is a bit challenging because it it doesn't use GPU. It used, like, a special hardware that is just for AI, and they cut down the cost per answer to, like, a tenth of what they used to cost. K. Now, of course, you still need like, this is even more expensive because now you need a special hardware. But what I think will happen is this hardware, you will be able in, like, the next few years to buy it just like you buy a GPU now, or maybe it's even gonna be integrated in the GPU. And then, basically, everybody will have an AI chip on on their computer that they can use. It's like specialized hardware. It makes me wonder as well, like, when you talk about you've either got the closed source
[00:55:12] Unknown:
hosted kind of non private option chat GBT, and then you've got your own hosted one. If we take it to the sort of you invest in some decent hardware, you have your own server, it's five, ten thousand, and you're a business or a heavy user, and you decide to do that. I wonder what the difference is in the quality of answers that you have. Because on one side, you have something where you can feed it all of your own data to personalize it in a certain way so it might become more useful to you or your company. But at the same time, I'm wondering because it's closed and it's not then gathering potentially other people's information, is it then gonna fall behind because these other ones are being fed so much information, they're gonna be smarter? You know, like, on the extreme end, I look at it and I'm like, does your personal AI become like a Jarvis from Iron Man kind of thing where it, like, it knows exactly what you want and need, and it has all your information, but it's fully trusted. And it's just there
[00:56:12] Unknown:
in the background all the time. I see where you're going. Just to be clear, if you just have a computer with, like, a thirty sixty graphics card that has 12 gigs of VRAM, you know, that used to be 300, now it's 400. I think we have a NVIDIA shortage going on here since they released their 5,000 series. But if you have that very mediocre graphics card with 12 GB VRAM, you're going to get an amazing experience that you might not even recognize the difference between what you can run on there and chat GPT. There might be a little bit of a decline, but it's not even gonna be noticeable. This stuff is getting really sophisticated. And believe me, we deal with clients who, we want to have the absolute best, and we want to, you know, get something like Jarvis. But you do not have to go that far to get really good results is is what I wanna say. Again, you should always
[00:56:53] Unknown:
start with, you know, the smaller one and to see if it fits what you're doing. I think another way to answer your question, is not one AI. It's something like five different models that are, like, glued together. We go in detail in the course, like, explaining the difference between every models and stuff. But you have the one with the images. You have the one for the code. You have the one for answering email, one that browse the Internet. And, like, all of those are separated. And then they have on top of this one that is deciding which one should it use. The user asks, how many liter of water do I need to buy pasta? And then it's gonna try to figure out what's the best one to answer this question. When you're running your model locally, usually, you cannot afford to have all of those ginormous thing, but you can have that specialized model. You could have one just for code, and then it's your coding one. And you know that when you're coding, you're gonna use this one, and it's gonna be your GPT because it only for code. Nothing else. Then you want to do art. So what you do, you shut down your coding one, and you turn on stable diffusion, and then you can do a lot of art with it. Can I just stop you on that one, Urban? Stable diffusion,
[00:58:07] Unknown:
I've not used. How does that compare to something like Midjourney? Because I've used a few. Nothing that I've used for my style of art that I'm working with gets anywhere even fucking close in the same universe
[00:58:24] Unknown:
as Midjourney does, including all the stuff that Adobe does and all the paid things and all of that. Like, it's not even close. So this open one, how does that compare? I have to admit, I'm with you, Max, there because I think Midjourney is the best one. The art and the text is definitely different. We're we're still struggling with the art. The text, though, you will not notice nearly as much different, but the art is a real struggle. It's funny that you say that, Gabriel, because technically, the art was sold first and runs better on local machine, and the text is harder. Like, on a pure technical level. But, anyway, so I think what Midjourney is very good at, it's recognizing the keyword of the user. And that by simply using text, you can describe what you want. You know, you can say, I want a concept art of a samurai falling down on a battle, and I want Japanese lantern and this and that. And it's gonna recognize, okay, the user wants concept art. He wants in the style of Japan painting, and it's very, very good at it. And it personalizes your style as well. I don't know if you Yeah. You do that, but I've spent a lot of time teaching it. I like this style, not this style. Show me two images. This one, not that one. This one, not that one. And it starts to see, oh, okay. This is the type of thing that they like. And I'm sure you could do that on your own Yeah. Yeah. Stuff as well. With stable diffusion, when we tried, number one, it's like, I know a friend who run this. You need to know a lot of tiny details. Like, okay. You know, if you look one of those tutorials, okay, I want, you know, a punk rocker guy in a concert, and then I want a bit of gold, so I will add this modifier and this and that. And there is a lot of parameter. While in mid journey, you would say, punk rock style from the eighties, rock band, garage band, boom, done, voila. You have it, you know, two minutes. The other thing is with stable diffusion, you can have your own neural network that someone else trained. And this is an example where MidJourney is unable to do. Let's say you want to make comic book in the style of IKEA manual. If you ask MidJourney an IKEA manual, it's gonna struggle. It's gonna make you the book and not the illustration.
But you could train a neural network just to solve that issue. You could train a stable diffusion, and you have a website. It's called Civid. You can include. I can send you the link. Don't want to, you know, misspell it, and then it it's the scammy version. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you can download custom made one for landscape, one for concept art, one for manga, one for anime, one for this, one for that, one that is censored, one that is uncensored. So you can customize. And what I've seen with people using stable diffusion is they get, okay. I'm gonna do manga now. So instead of using the generic model, they're gonna use the highly targeted one that is very good at doing this. And then let's make some fun comic book style, then there is one. Let's do some landscape, then there is one. And MidJourney, what it's good at is you don't need this. You can just describe it. And, again, we go back into what we said, you know, five minutes ago, which is you might not be able to compete with a GPT or mid journey on the grand scale of it. But if you know what you're trying to solve and you can help the machine by loading the correct model, often you get better result. And, you know, for me, this is where I do the cutoff. It's like, I could have marginally better with a GPT, but I could also self host it, not give my money to a ginormous corporation that don't care about my privacy, and then simply, you know, use my own on my machine. Mhmm. Gabriel can confirm this.
Now my tolerance, when I feel I'm not welcome for a product and I see too many CAPTCHA, too many checks, too many stuff, I'm like, okay. I'm out. I won't use the website. That's okay. They don't like Mhmm. And I just use something else. And I think more people should do this. It's like, okay. You don't like me, just stop using it and move to an alternative. It's also censorship. If you use Midjourney or the big ones, and when you host it yourself, you do not get this censorship.
[01:02:25] Unknown:
And it can be bad. I get censored
[01:02:27] Unknown:
every other time that I use Midjourney. Sounds about right. It's extremely frustrating. And, like, I'm not doing anything that's all that fucking weird. No. It's just like Aztec cutting a heart out of somebody holding it towards the sky to, you know, deified to, you know, venerate their deities. That's all you want, and it won't do it. They won't do it. It's very frustrating because you have a vision of what you wanna create, and then it's, oh, we don't like this word or we don't like this thing. And and then you're, like, trying to adjust,
[01:02:53] Unknown:
maybe if I don't use that word and I use this one, and and then it's like, that's not really what I want. It's very frustrating. So, yeah, I might have to lean in and start trying that other one. Certainly doable. I think everybody should just start using locally hosted AI on on their own computer. Doesn't have to be powerful. If you do want to get serious, the recent NVIDIA five thousand series of cards, the fifty ninety, if you have some money to blow, and it's not gonna be available for a few months if we're being honest because of the paper launch that NVIDIA has done again. The fifty ninety has 32 gigabytes of VRAM. That thing is going to do everything you want for self hosted AI once it's available. And what sort of money is something like that? So the the MSRP is actually 2,000, but it's going to be sold for much more than that because people think that these prices owe MSRP. Like, there's this platonic ideal of price, and then people get mad about, you know, scalpers and things. What people don't realize is that a price is what somebody's willing to pay. That's what a price is. That's what the correct price is. Mhmm. And if somebody pays 4,000, people like to, oh, why are you selling it? Why are you buying it for 4,000? A price is the consummation of the buyer and the seller, and I would argue the buyer is the one who solidifies what an actual price is. Well, so even that, I mean, that's not outrageous
[01:04:03] Unknown:
money even if you're saying, okay. It's that kind of, you know, like, 4 k. For what you get efficiency wise from AI, if you use it relatively heavy, it's fucking worth that all day long, like, if you care about your privacy. I wish we would have a bit more financial means because I would love to be built and to show it on escape technocracy. But there is an interesting approach that is using very powerful CPU and a lot of RAM. And it's gonna be slightly slower, but then you're not so limited because the VRAM, it's all or nothing.
It's either you have it and it works or it's, like, one megabyte above. Let's say you have a model that is thirty two and one megabyte above requirement of VRAM, then you need more than 32. It's all or nothing. Mhmm. And and this is very annoying because VRAM is expensive. And there is two approach that have been used, which is to use server motherboard with two CPU, like two Ryzen, like insane with, like, 16 core or so each, and then, like, a 20 gigabyte of RAM. That's one approach. And another one, which is interesting, which is more the cyberpunk one, is Mac mini. So, you know, in Mac mini, the RAM and VRAM is shared is the same thing. Right. And you can buy for a few thousand a Mac mini that has 32 gigabyte of VRAM. There is a project to just put them together to have a bigger cluster, like a bigger computer. Mhmm. That is something very interesting. And with Gabriel, we're looking at this. But for now, it's a bit too expensive for what we could afford. But, definitely, if we get more financial, I mean, we would gladly do, like, a complete tutorial explaining how to set it up. Interesting. Just to give you an idea, if you want to know which GPU OpenAI is using, you can also get those if that's your thing. And it's called a 4,000 and those sort of and the TensorFlow.
And those are in the several 10,000 k. And then they have, like, a 28 gigabyte of your RAM Mhmm. In one of those. So this is even above. But, again, things are moving very fast. And, you know, if one day you would have told me that Windows 98 and a Pentium computer from '97 would be able to run a smaller version than ChargeGPT, I would not have believed you, and yet here we are. So, you know, who knows? In a few months, maybe all of this is even cheaper and faster to run on consumer hardware.
[01:06:29] Unknown:
Okay. Well, again, I'll say to people, check out Escape the Technocracy. Go and have a look at these things. If any of this sounds interesting to you, if you wanna take back some of your privacy and still be able to use the tools, definitely check it out. Is there anything that you wanted to cover that we haven't or anything, like, really weird that you can throw at me before we start to wrap? How weird can we get? For free, people can just subscribe to Watchmen privacy. We talk about all sorts of interesting things, personal finance,
[01:06:59] Unknown:
the synthetic devolution that, AI is going to cause. We talk about Monero a lot. Let's see what else. Trusted computing. We had an episode on that. Psychopaths, AI, censorship, all the good stuff, mass, migration or mass invasion. And Go go for it, Erwin. Share it. Share it with people. Share it. Like,
[01:07:16] Unknown:
even if you cannot buy the course, share it with people that helps to get a bigger audience. All those type of topics, they are shadowban. We know we don't get any loss from the algorithm.
[01:07:27] Unknown:
So if you can share it with your friend, with your family, and you can show it to people, that helps a lot. We had a our own episode talking about the Internet archive, when it went down, and how you might actually do that yourself. And we have been approached by some clients, and and we're kind of being introduced to some right now that have really interesting projects that they wanna run. They want to have a huge server with all sorts of files at their disposal or they want to maybe back up the entire Internet themselves. Yeah. That's a big project, but these are very interesting things that if you're a cypherpunk, you should be thinking about how to replicate all these services yourself. We have an episode talking about cults. That was really good. We cover a lot of ground. I mercilessly mock the Bitcoin podcast phenomenon. That's a recurring thing. So what's not to like? Happy to talk about anything I mentioned or can fit in another topic if you want. Have you got anything weird? You got anything that I'll be like, oh, what the fuck? We have the episode we did about assassination with AI, you know, remote controlled robot Yes. Which is quite quite a thing. Yep. We started doing these what we call torchlight chats, and we just wanted to give our own take on certain events that are happening and focus on it from a technological level. So when somebody hears about the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizada, the Iranian nuclear director of a few years ago, they're gonna look at it with a geopolitical lens. Oh, here's allegedly, Israel's doing this and that, but we tried to unpack it in a technological way. We broke that down and we said, okay. Look. How did they do this? How did they accomplish this? How did they get people in? How did they assemble the tech is it even feasible? So basically, what they did is, actually, Urban, why don't you tell the quick story about how they set up this assassination of this Iranian nuclear director? Yeah. So everything is allegedly, of course. They allegedly smuggled in iron, like, a two tons
[01:09:07] Unknown:
robot, like, a machine gun on a robotic arm. Piece by piece. Yeah. Piece by piece. This guy is like construction equipment, and they left it on the side of a road, you know, on the side of a highway under, you know, some, fabric. And and they had cameras and monitoring the traffic hidden in this truck. Allegedly, they had a few kilometers away from there, they had another camera surveillance post so that they would know when what type of car would drive by this killing machine. And what happened is well, we don't know the full detail, but it appears that used facial recognition, probably license plate recognition to know when a specific car was driving. You know? Mhmm. And then they had a few kilometers. They know, okay. If it's driving at this speed, it's gonna take, you know, two, three minute to reach. And then in front of this robot, they just basically pull the trigger where the AI was used is so first, you have the facial recognition, and then you also have to take into account that this is allegedly using satellite communication or some kind of cell phone network, and those are, like, slow. It's unreliable.
So they had to use AI to, like, correct the aim to make sure that because it was not real time. You know? You have a slight delay. Mhmm. It's like when you're in a Zoom call, you need to take this into account. And also there is the other issue. It's like with a project like this, that is very easy, you know, to hurt someone else around. And, yeah, this was, like, just, incredibly highly targeted. When it happened, the Iranian authorities, they said that this is a robotic machine gun, and nobody believed them. But then a few years later, it was revealed that, yeah, this is indeed what happened. Only the person, targeted was killed. I think no one else was hurt or any of this. And even he had, like, bodyguard all around him. It didn't really help, you know. His wife was in the seat next to him Yep. And it didn't hit the wife. So it was incredibly precise,
[01:11:03] Unknown:
automated AI controlled machine gun being controlled allegedly from hundreds and hundreds of kilometers away. So that was a wild thing that we covered, the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizada. Just to get the intel on him, they had been tracking him for years. They apparently broken into a safe in order to find out who this guy was because for the longest time, Iran basically, they didn't want this guy public. They didn't want anybody to know anything about him, understandably. And so, you know, the adversary had to actually break into some actual physical safes to see, oh, who's the signature signing off on this thing? Who is this guy? And then so they started learning more. And over the course of years, they basically studied every one of this guy's habits. They knew that he went to his villa on Friday afternoons.
So they planned this attack for a long time. They knew his patterns. They knew how he would react. I think one of the documents said, like, they knew what aftershave that he used every morning. They knew that much about him. And then, yeah, they got the guy and they set back the nuclear program in Iran by they said at the time, like, six months, but other people said by years just by taking this guy out with a remote controlled, satellite controlled, autonomous robot that they had smuggled in piece by piece into the country.
[01:12:12] Unknown:
What a weird world we live in that that sort of stuff is possible. And, like, where does that go in the next five to ten years with drones and AI and all this stuff? It's like you already have people who could try and attack you in the physical world, but now they can kind of attack you in the physical world from behind a keyboard. And it wasn't that long ago that it was only really militaries that had that. The pager explosions? Yeah. Like, if it was only really military that they could take you out from 30,000 feet away and they have such precision and all this stuff. Okay. That's scary, but that's only militaries.
[01:12:47] Unknown:
Like, how long until there's just some fucking weirdo with a few grand? Or you wanna talk about weird. Like, what is it possible for bad actors to do? We had a episode on cults, and Urban brought this to my attention, the Aum Shinrikyo. This was a death cult in Japan, and basically, they wanted to kill everybody in the world. And when they found these people, they would put poison into the subway trying to kill people and things like this. And when they tracked them down, Urban brought this to my attention again, when they finally found this facility of this death cult in Japan, they had a massive facility they were manufacturing and had guns.
They were trying to manufacture immense amounts of this toxin and also LSD apparently. And what they were gonna do is they were going to diffuse LSD into Tokyo or something. Okay. And then, you know, the leader was gonna come in a helicopter, which they also smuggled piece by piece this helicopter from Russia, and he was gonna come as the savior while everybody's tripping on LSD. And they had done other things like they had sent an envoy to Africa to study the Ebola virus, and they actually wanted to get their hands on this so that they could have biological warfare against everybody as well. Like, this was a group of people who said, we want to kill everybody on Earth, and they took steps to do so. And they got pretty far, actually. They got pretty far. I will machine re kill. You know, Max, this is in the eighties. Eighties, nineties. So for the listener, just go on Google Image
[01:14:05] Unknown:
and type in Russian, like, Soviet military helicopter and look at how this looks. You know? And imagine that now they smuggle this in Japan piece by piece, rebuild it, and successfully flew. That's one thing to smuggle it, but then, like, building it and having it flying, they also like, they were spreading nerve agent. You know, those nasty chemical that are pretty much banned everywhere. They were able to reverse engineer, and then they would go around. I mean, it's sad because people died, but when you read the book about it, it's hilariously, like, I don't know. It's comically evil in a certain way. You know, they disguise themselves as high scream candy truck, and then they had this weird machine to spray nerve agent on the neighborhood. And what happened is some of the nerve agent went into the truck, and then they had to go to the hospital because they were vomiting and they were in a really bad shape. And, I mean, imagine and then the hospital, they they didn't ask any question. You know? They're like, Oh, those are people, you know, with their face melting and and, you know, like, all kind of chemical burns.
And, oh, also, there is, you know, like, five people dead in the neighborhood, and no question was asked. They are known for this chemical attack on the Tokyo subway. When they did that, then the leader, he decided to destroy all the proof, but they had so much stockpile of ammunition, of guns, of they had stockpile of everything that they just couldn't get rid of the proof fast enough. They it was just too big. So then three days later, when the military police finally go in their compound, this is when they found there were, like, three, industrial incinerator in the basement to, like, make, like, body disappear.
They were like a fucking, you know, Russian helicopter. They were like all sorts of stuff, stockpiling, stockpile of, like, nerve agent, Ebola virus, all sorts of stuff. And this was already in eighties, nineties that they did it. That's fucking mental. If not for their mad idea of killing everybody on the subway, probably this would have been run for a longer period of time because, you know, on the surface, it was like a yoga class. If you look at videos of this cult, it looked like a yoga school or something, like a martial arts school. So it didn't look like It's like MK Ultra style
[01:16:17] Unknown:
ideas about using LSD and then, you know, coming down in the helicopter and mind control
[01:16:23] Unknown:
stuff. It's also there's I can't remember which Batman it is. It's you know the one with the scarecrow guy? It's like one of the first Batman newer films. He does that. That was Batman Begins, the first Christopher Nolan one where the objective is to contaminate Gotham City with fear gas. Actually, I think that's also the the premise of Batman Arkham City, City, the video game. I think that's also the premise there. But, yeah, that's kind of the idea. Everybody's seeing all these demented monsters and all the rest. That's it. To be fair, they should have stuck to the LSD idea. And and, you know, this is stuff that no one talks about. The fact that this was achieved already in the nineties, this should give you, like, an idea on what is possible now. And, you know, when you look at those drone shows, people should think about this. You know? To to me, this is like a fireworks spectacle in middle age that would also be used to train how to use gunpowder. I mean, imagine let's scare a bit the listener. Yeah. And, of course, all of this is controlled in the Denver Airport from this, you know no. I shouldn't say that because then someone will listen to us and will go to the Denver Airport, and then they will say, no. It's not. It it's definitely not in the Denver Airport. We are not saying that. Right. In military settings. And what if you tie this to facial recognition, and then it's like, okay. Let's target everybody in the city that did this or that. If two years ago, those would be, like, unbelievable. And now it's possible. Hard, but possible. So there are definitely, like, really, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for those, it's like a sub show of Watchmen privacy called Torchlight, and this is where we talk about all this weird weird stuff. And we never mix it with politics because every time we research those subject, it's like, oh, yeah. They got the terrorist, you know, good job, or they did this or that. But we only care about the technical aspect and what it means for the greater humankind, you know, that is asking those question that we should ask. We should ask those questions. Mhmm. By the way, this is eating on me. It's not Batman Arkham City. It's Batman Arkham Knight, the one after that 02/2015.
[01:18:15] Unknown:
I just wanna be clear that I know what I'm talking about. About. And also Aum Shinrikyo, they killed people and went after them who were investigating them. They went after lawyers. The Yakuza, apparently, they had conflicts with the Yakuza, and they would just try to kill them. And the Yakuza basically said, yeah. We're not gonna deal with these guys. So they were they were they were ruthless for sure. Most people wouldn't fuck with Yakuza, so they obviously were pretty scary. I think they just send some body part of some Yakuza, and they said, leave us alone. And they're like, okay. Okay. I get yeah. You're too crazy even for us. You know?
[01:18:44] Unknown:
There's levels to this shit. Damn. I should have prepared this. I I had no idea we would talk about this. But there is a book describing all of this, and if you read it, it's just comically, like again, people died, and it's up. In a way, it's comically evil, you know, like, gems bond style where you took this is impossible. Yeah. It
[01:19:01] Unknown:
it happened. Mental. Is that interesting enough for you, Max? That was very interesting. I enjoyed that very, very much. I'm gonna have to go and do some research on this because that's properly weird. We do have the episode on cults. It's called Beyond Heaven's Gate. Beyond Heaven's Gate. If you wanna track down that episode. And that one is number 134.
[01:19:18] Unknown:
Okay. I'll give it a listen. Well, as I said at the beginning of the episode, I really do appreciate what you guys are doing. Yeah. I'd suggest to people, go and have a listen. Listen to those episodes that have been mentioned. Maybe consider the course if you care about privacy and you wanna improve, and it's been a pleasure as always, and we'll have to do it again. Thank you very much, Max. Yep. Thank you for inviting us. Pleasure. Well, we will speak soon. We'll close it out there, Fikha. Thanks for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that. If you are interested in the escape the technocracy course, you can click the link in the show notes. You can use our code ungovernable. That will give you a discount.
I'd also like to mention, if you haven't checked it out already, go to ungovernablemisfits.com. Mister Crown's been working really hard. He's brought a brand new website, loads of extra features. We are still waiting on the clothing, so that's something I'm sorting out my end. But other than that, everything's up and running with loads of new features, and it looks awesome. So go and check it out. And if you like it, send him a message. Tell him how good he is. Just say, mister Crown, you are fucking incredible. Look at this beautiful art. In there.
Catch you on the next one. Stay ungovernable.
