In this episode of The Confab, I reconnect with my eccentric yet brilliant friend, Ben Gunn. We dive into a catch-up session, reflecting on our last podcast and the whirlwind of events that have unfolded since. Ben, known for his unique perspective and relentless drive, shares updates on his ambitious projects and the exciting developments at his new site.
We explore the potential of creating a hub for like-minded individuals, particularly Bitcoiners, who are looking for a space to innovate, collaborate, and build. Ben's vision of a multi-use site that caters to various projects, from co-working spaces to fabrication workshops, is both inspiring and practical. We discuss the importance of having a physical location where creativity and collaboration can thrive, away from the noise of the world.
Throughout the episode, we touch on the challenges and triumphs of building something meaningful in today's world. We also delve into the importance of community, trust, and shared resources in creating a sustainable and innovative environment. Ben's passion for his work and his commitment to fostering a supportive community is evident, and it's clear that exciting times are ahead for Ungovernable Misfits and its listeners.
Join us as we break the ice, both literally and metaphorically, and explore the possibilities of what can be achieved when driven individuals come together with a shared purpose. Whether you're in the UK or beyond, this episode is sure to spark ideas and inspire action.
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(00:01:39) BOOSTS
(00:03:02) THANK YOU FOUNDATION
(00:04:17) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET
(00:05:20) Breaking the Ice
(00:09:07) Do It From a Base of Fuck You
(00:18:59) New Woods, Not Like the Old Woods
(00:27:18) The Unimogs Will Build It Out
(00:32:24) A Vision for Community
(00:45:43) Competence and Collaboration
(00:53:33) The Pleb Supermarket
(01:05:39) Let's Build Some Cool Shit
[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking 0. Welcome back to Ungovernable Misfits and another confab episode. It's been a while since I caught up with my good friend, Ben Gunn. It's always eventful. I can honestly say he is one of the weirdest individuals I've ever met in my life. Really hard work, really annoying, but also brilliant. And in this episode, we do a catch up on where we were on the last pod and what's happened since. And I can tell you, after my visit, a lot has happened, and there's a lot more to come. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. I hope it gets the minds ticking for anyone living in the UK and others from outside of the UK as well. And if you wanna get involved or you have any questions, you can message me on Fountain, Twitter, Nosta, Signal, Telegram, pretty much anywhere. Just get in touch. We wanna build this thing together.
Before we start, I wanna say a big thank you to everyone who's been supporting the show, whether that's sharing it with friends and family or boosting on any of the podcasting 2.0 platforms. I'm gonna read through the top boosts from the last Confab episode. The last Confab episode, in case you missed it, was with Zac and Q from Foundation talking about the new Passport Prime. Hashlatet with 61,020 sats. Rose gold is hot. I'm buying 1 in satin black. Q and a, lose the northern voice, please. It's kind of a turnoff. Late stage HODL with 25,000 sats.
Gravel voice max is better than AI max. 8th Muthrandir with 7,777 SATs. I loved the rose gold passport. Laughing face. Nathan Day, watch out for check neck with a link. Anyone can go and check out that link. Pies, AI Max is gay as fuck, bruh. And pies again, Yo. Boyaka. Boyaka. Mushroom. Mushroom. Mushroom. Mushroom. Beers. Beers. Fish. Fish. Fish. Fish. Cigarette. Cigarette. Cigarette. Rocket. Rocket. Rocket. Moon. Moon. Thank you, pies. And thank you to all the boosters. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Foundation Devices and Cake Wallet. Both of them sponsor this show. They sponsor the confabs, and they allow me to do things like this. They allow me the time to go and visit Ben and others, record these types of episodes, and build on Goverable Misfits.
If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.xyz. You can also check out the last confab. Not only are the team incredible with Zach and Q and others on the team building the best hardware out there, they're fully open source. They actually care about Bitcoin. They actually care about this movement, and they make it really easy for any fuckwit, myself included, to hold their own keys. With their new passport prime, it also unlocks so many other features for someone who wants to take control of their digital life. This is what I suggest to all my friends and family.
Everyone who uses these devices has a very simple onboarding process, and they feel comfortable, which means a lot when you're managing your own wealth. Foundation.xyzed, and you can use the code Ungovernable to get a discount. If you're looking for a desktop or mobile wallet for Bitcoin or Monero or both, you really need to check out Cake Wallet. Seth, the cohost I work with on the Monero monthly, previously at Foundation, is working really hard with the rest of the team to make it easy for people who actually use and actually live on Bitcoin. You can buy gift cards from within the wallet. You can pay bills. You can convert between currencies.
I'm also really looking forward to the integration with Foundation. 2 of the best teams out there working together makes me very excited about the future of privacy in this space. You can use this wallet on Mac, Linux, Windows, iPhone, or Android. It's really simple to set up. You can connect it to your own node. They have silent payments and many more features. Check them out at cakewallet.com. Enjoy the show.
[00:05:20] Unknown:
Robin Hood. I suppose for you, this is how it looks and useful. Yeah. I knew they had a use, so I just I haven't found it yet. I think I've got a hole. Yeah. That reminds me of that. You can see crows poke food out for, like, pipe with a stick. Crows are quite smart. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Give me a compliment. Thanks, mate. You're almost as smart as a crow. Yeah. Thanks, mate. Thank you. Welcome. I know crows are different because is it you the ones to eat them all? I'm a crotter. It's like you. No. That was me asking. Horrible now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine looking at a crow and thinking, can I eat you? Poor, mate.
[00:05:50] Unknown:
Right. There we are. I think that is Are we recording? Yeah. Let's just do a test. Let's see how this comes out. Just say something pointless.
[00:05:58] Unknown:
Max is a cock. Big cock. Yep. There we are, mate. Here we are again. How long has it been? Don't know, mate. You're the interviewer.
[00:06:09] Unknown:
I'm the,
[00:06:11] Unknown:
special needs. How long and what time? Yeah. Scope? Time. Events? Don't know. When was the last one? Amsterdam? Yeah. Couple of years. It's in the notes. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. It was over a year ago, a year and a half ago. Something like that. Right. Crikey. Walking around in the pissing rain. Yes. Smoking the local skinny cigarettes. Yeah. They didn't turn out to be good. They made me dizzy. Yeah. And, yeah, it was good. It was just we had a bit of a moan, didn't we? Grumpy old men in the park.
[00:06:42] Unknown:
Bitcoin edition. I think was we were whinging
[00:06:45] Unknown:
about the state of the world and the Bitcoin space, which arguably is actually fucking was way better than than it is now. Yeah. So the comments aged Yeah. But we win the kudos of being right about something bad again. Yeah. Yeah. Which is nice. Yeah. That's great. I was like that. But it's not all bad, and I think we covered a lot of positive stuff. I think particularly for me, it was just one of those by the time I got to talking to you, it was more about what I didn't know I was gonna do. Yeah. That's right. You know, there was a more it was more of a right a few wins and a few losses and a mixed bag of results, and it was just gathering that back up and taking account of it all, and what we're in price wise there, you know, talk about how long ago, I think I would say about $80,000 ago. Yeah. Probably. Would it be or would it be a lot less? I'm trying to think. Maybe we're, like The first Amsterdam was out the year before yours was it was $18,000.
I don't think we were far off that on this one. I I Yeah. Can't remember. But it it it was a long time ago in Bitcoin prices.
[00:07:40] Unknown:
But I remember you you not knowing what you were gonna do next. And then since then well, I'll start with I've just traveled down to your new what would you call this? Plot land? Yard? Plot land? Yeah. I'd call it a yard We've had a mesh node. We've had a wander around. Big fucking place. Yeah. Loads of space. Lots of land.
[00:08:00] Unknown:
Off the road. Yeah. Flat. Sheds. Cover from the weather. Mhmm. All the stuff. The other place. Yeah. The other place deprives you of. Had a wander around.
[00:08:10] Unknown:
Ben ended up in the lake in a frozen lake. Oh, my god. Yeah. I forgot that. Took the dog for a walk. He showed me around the land and ended up in a frozen lake trying to save the dog. Yeah. Like, you I've got a 45 kilo Malinois.
[00:08:24] Unknown:
I threw the ball out onto the edge of a lake. I thought just a bit of frost on and it was frozen. So big boy carried a jump solid ground and then made an ice well for himself about a meter away. And his little head was bobbing. He couldn't get his neck through the bit. So there's dad way steeping in. Like, that's the end of it. I didn't even think I don't even remember getting in. So, yeah, drama promised and drama delivered after about half an hour. Snow every month. But it's alright. It can always it can always get worse, and, that was fun, and no one died.
Just got a bit cold and wet. I like it. Yeah. I get a buzzer. I didn't do it deliberately that one, but but now we have literally broken the ice, and, we'll go for a dip tomorrow. Yeah. We'll go for a dip. Go and get wet.
[00:09:07] Unknown:
Very different to your last site. Yeah. Big plans, which we're gonna get into. Yeah. I think what's important is a year and a half, 2 years ago, you were quite lost in the sense of where you wanna go in in the world. Like, geographically, where do you wanna place yourself? You were discussing actually getting rid of the woods completely. Mhmm. Certainly not buying more land and and sort of expanding things. Yeah. Talking about all different places to travel, all those sorts of things. And with me at the time, personal situation was quite bad. Yeah. You stepped up for me, which I won't ever forget. Always, mate. That will always be remembered and appreciated. And, Don't worry about it. At the time, I was very, very close to shutting down the pod. And for the sort of the 6 months after that, I was very close as well. Mhmm. Just sort of burnt out. Yeah. You were. Very, very burnt out. Yeah. Extremely burnt out. And then since then, the pod has, you know, have left my Fiat work. The pod has grown massively. Good. Thank you to everyone. Yeah. Big thank you to everyone.
It matters a lot. Yeah. It's been big. And the same with you now. You've decided actually, no. I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna expand. Yes. Same thing in very different ways. I'd say in the same way where it's important. It's an it's an aggressive
[00:10:25] Unknown:
it's pressing forward on something, not being attacked and reacting to stuff. You say, right. I'll just get the bit I can control Yeah. Under my control. You backed off, which was the best decision you ever made. You'd neither relinquished the equity and the goodwill of what you were working hard for and people loved, but you couldn't keep putting in the fixed costs costs of the program you'd set up for yourself and maintain all of your other commitments. Yeah. And the decision to do that isn't one everybody can do. Everyone sees the ground rushing up, but some people don't know when to pull shoot. Right? And you did. And thank God because as you backed off whether it was because of or at the same time as the numbers started to creep and creep and creep and you kept long your option but you didn't stop out of the higher costs and that's all to your credit well done That was a really good decision. And at around the time you were doing that, I was just starting to build this stage of a project that but at the time we were at Amsterdam, it was just, like, right. Well, here's where we are. It's, like, half time, you know have a hamlet moment yeah what did we win and what did we lose and what's you know what now that I and then when you do thin out like international might have worked so it did a little bit traveled a little bit went to prosper and looked at their model a way of trying to accommodate anarchists in all the different ways anarchists can't be accommodated, and they had a much more top down they got top cover from the Honduran constitution that was then reneged, so they got robbed, I don't know what the full details are, but I scoped that place out just as an alternative. We looked at properties on there and stuff, and it was a serious consideration, but just by the time I was starting to work out the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The platform itself came into legal stuff that hasn't wrecked it. Yeah. But I was just put enough is it chill that I suppose is the right word? And for me, it's just like, well, I'd go over there and move and invest and do it if I had a solid footing, but you don't accommodate directly to Bitcoin as as it is. As in there's, like, all the coiners Yeah. To be diplomatic that come through and the idea is, well, it's open. They're free to fail here. It's like, well, alright. Well, I'm free to not be there for the failure. Yeah. It's a small community.
But that's balanced against the fact they just had this enormous achievement by being able to get constitutional cover for a free region in the first place, and it's an achievement, but it feel I don't know. Maybe I'm writing them off too soon and unfairly, but is it the hashcash of attempts at lower government structures? Yeah. And it did a lot, but it didn't completely hold in the water. Mhmm. And so all that said, there aren't any safe squares. I think I think we can still agree on that. There's no safe squares on the board. World's no no more certain, and in that time the scope for the project it just if you've got time to stop and think and no one's gonna die and it's a big decision take a week and distract yourself and go away and do some other stuff and just let just let it sit in your head and thoughts percolate and then right well, you know, if we if we do a little bit more closer to the UK in the long run and do something instead of top down Prospera, like, go and ask permission to have something that they can run later and just start to do fiat business perfectly fine inside those rails, but then just have them adjacent and pointing towards Bitcoin.
I say Bitcoin, but people in Bitcoin and their issues and the stuff that we just can't get by on alone in the beginning of this mesh structure that we've defined theoretically and had some mini circular events, proofs of concept, but then actually to capture a real vertical, a real supply chain, and then divert that towards people that are more trusted than average in the public and all the benefits that come with that for both parties. Mhmm. And so that's the first softening up. And then that opened the scope for a second yard, a secondary industry, like sawmilling to forestry. Primary industry makes logs. Secondary industry turns them into boards. Tertiary and quaternary industries build them and rent them, use them. And so to go down that strand, but do it and and market to Bitcoiners as better quality customers generally, then that's what started to do. Yeah. Yeah. So it came not in the UK a locks and over in the Isle of Man resident for a few more years probably, but you don't have to be here a lot. You just come and capture how things are and then go away, and you can contract lads to do stuff while you're away and if you trust them, which I do with my guys, they move mountains literally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. We walked out what felt like a mountain.
Yeah. Well, you're on this what you're on now, mate? You're on the Atkins?
[00:14:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Day
[00:14:47] Unknown:
9 of 1 meal a day, just meat. So when you that's generally when you feel you're worth on a transition diet. We took max of a we took max 200 meters vertically, didn't we, mate? Yeah. Just to make you feel better. Yeah. No. That was nice. A good host. Of that. But it is a good vantage. It's that slope, that south facing slope of this new plot there. You can just look at the working area, the amenity areas, and the potential for it. Well, it had it had my brain whirring because, you know, you've got you've got You'll meet both of you. You've got the site here Yeah. Where you've got all your kit, your machinery Yes. Everything else. Yeah. I don't know whether we're gonna say or not, but there's some very, very smart and trusted people who are in and around this site. Yes. You can. Just let's not name them, but let's suffice to say the meet up people are within reach of a meet up or in reach of a side gig Yeah. In something with they've got some equity Yeah. If it kicks, they get a bit of that. Yeah. But out of my boring fiat mining bits can cover costs on some more speculative projects.
So the idea is there's a fantastic scene. You should put it in the notes of a of a movie called the gambler. And if you haven't seen it, we should pause it and watch it, but it's a it's a simple scene. It's an old guy, young guy, he's a gambler, and it's something around fuck you. And I just think I know that's glib, but it is also just a fantastic way to think about how to take risk. Yeah. It's to say, right, will you always do it from a base of fuck you? Yeah. And here, along a timber and forestry vertical, I'll fuck you as firewood. Yeah. Because you throw a boomerang out, it's 2 days of labor and machinery, and you deliver it, and it's cash or wire in, and it's back to you. Now that's not lucrative. It's not it's not amazing. It's not like tethers business model, but it's just a pleb sized fuck you base, and then, like, say, that's Monday, Tuesday. Wednesday onwards could be a complex milling problem that you couldn't have otherwise afforded to do had you not had your week paid for in the first half of it. Yeah. And just that principle of fuck you simple stuff that we know. That's the bit we're sure won't go wrong, and we speculate long options, long shots. Shit that's a bit wonky, but maybe got a better shout than anybody else because we've got a combination of skills here now. You got a very good combination of skills. It's terrifying, ain't it? Yeah. People who I have massive respect for. Me too. Hugely competent. That's what's terrifying Yeah. Because now I've got to be the clean edge to people who are very serious.
And then I'm generalist. If you talk to a dev, I'm not gonna go to the weeds Yeah. On him on code any more than a forestry guy on his job, any more than a trainer. When we get trainers in, that's another part of the business. Not gonna be that good, like, c minus on each of them. Yeah. But each can't speak to the other. So it's like that Darren Brown magic trick where he plays all the grandmasters off each other, and he's not playing chess. He's just copying the 6 o'clock player to the 12 o'clock player and the 1 o'clock to the 5 o'clock, and he's just remembering the last 6 moves. Yeah. There's an element of what I'm trying to do to reconcile people who think they have different jobs. I can speak abstractly to them and sound a bit like a palm reader, but they kinda agree. And there's a higher level language that all of them, they're all doing the same job. The tech guy is an engineer. The engineer is just doing that in an analog way, and the trainer is doing it with people. Mhmm. Where's your snags? What are your bugs? What are your features? Yeah. And we bring them out, and it they're all they've all got different verbiage. We've got different words, different ways of saying stuff, different sayings, but they're all at the same thing. And they can work in concert because I've had a bit of an odd life, and I've put maybe 10% of my time chips into different careers.
I've left silos of friends and goodwill in strange places and strange strands. It's a generalist project that's bringing them threads of the rope back along projects that they all think they're the salt. They all think they're bringing the thing, but everybody's doing it at the same time. And the scope for projects in scale and breadth is massively boosted because your builder is as smart as a dev and your dev is as practical as a builder and they get to cancel each other out stupid ideas and support the ones that they can not veto and say actually that's actually I didn't think of that and the reconciliation is trust through the middle, which is me. Mhmm. Later on, they'll be able to finish other sentences. Now I'll hopefully get pinned off, like, made redundant. They go, I've got an independent business over here. Yeah. And that's brilliant then.
[00:18:59] Unknown:
Let's talk about what your plans are. Yeah. A little bit. So I've had to drive
[00:19:05] Unknown:
4, 5 hours out from your home. You hear that violin? No. Sorry. I didn't hear about it. Yeah. What's your fucking Poor Matt. Poor Max. Zaps for Max. I sent some zaps on that bit of the park. Poor Max. No one is joking. It is it is awful driving. Good effort for coming down. The the reason I say that is it's out the way.
[00:19:23] Unknown:
You were prick, didn't you know? Oh, I know. I've fallen in Malawear. We all know. We all know. That's one thing you can be sure about. It's a verifiable nurseless pest taker. Yeah. It's verifiable. You are a It's like Tourette. It is. I know people are like, though. It's out the way is my point. And It's a long way out. I totally got totally granted. Yeah. Long way out, which has its pros, which is it's quiet here. It's very, very beautiful scenery. Mhmm. There is a lot of land
[00:19:51] Unknown:
compared to where I am, where there's fuck all. Quantity has a quality of its own. If you're in the middle of a 16 acre field, it's nice feeling at the top of there. Oh, it's lovely. You can't it it drops your blood pressure Yeah. Straight away. Yeah. It's lovely. This place is a nice place to come and visit. So as to plans, I don't know if you're lying in that up, but, yes, massively
[00:20:12] Unknown:
open to visitors at different levels, different levels of activity. And so, you know, it's it's helped seeing it with my own eyes because I'd seen the plans. You sent me that and all that sort of stuff. But but as you drive into the site and I can see different areas, I'm starting to put together. Okay. This could work. That could work. There's massive scope for what could be done here. Yep. And what we've talked about in the mesh to Dell for a very long time, you do need physical locations for certain things. It's very difficult to get physical locations that would work for people who maybe wanna be a little bit more off grid, wanna try some things that are a little bit different.
Maybe they want some co working spaces or projects they wanna spin up in trusted environments around other very smart and ideologically aligned for the most part, a place, a hub for that. Maybe you can paint some of your ideas Mhmm. To listeners. I've obviously heard it. But Yeah. Well, it comes out of what's broken from Fiat. So if we took the previous conversation as prologue,
[00:21:16] Unknown:
as a moan Mhmm. For the trigger of what to do about it, if everything's shit, we take account of that. The root problem that this solves is that the Fiat land outside of residential is single use. It's basically spec. The farmers field has one job, one profit centers, the sheep, or whatever is on it. That's it. To be clever and sophisticated at the moment on Fiat pace is to put a caravan on the back of it and get a little cheeky income through, and that is uncorrelated income. It doesn't cost the sheep to rent to a visitor and vice versa. It's just to take that concept and just keep folding that steel back on itself, that value back on itself, and then you pulled in this morning to a site that has got very not just mixed use, but could be, like, a lot of different uses that do not compete fully for each other's resource on time or place. So we got different events running on the same site. We could have same events running in series across physical training and adventure training, nice high end lodges and cabins for people to stay short term, and then accompany that with courses. So if there's a 5 day course residential and the situation is normally you couldn't sell the missus on your favorite little course, but you could say, as a Bitcoin owner with good reputation and good standing, you've got a discounted rate to visit for the week. Yeah. Stay. We host and stay as guests.
And then to have that split the middle by saying, bring the missus, bring the kids. It's a beautiful place to come. It is. Yeah. Super safe. Yeah. We'll do everything on the safety side to take their hosting responsibilities more seriously than anybody can guess because what this could lead up to requires us to have an immaculate record from the start and on. But the idea being it could be multiuse, and it could be something that people run out of reasons to say no Yeah. To some level of activity, even if it's just to come like you mentioned. We're gonna set some sort of co working space up, come and visit some keyboard work, some clean work, just in some soundproof cubes inside of a factory that we're gonna do lines of Fiat and white label products with timber, but then also come and bring your design, bring your pleb mafia logo, and you can watch it go through the factory Yeah. And drink the del Salvadorian coffee we'll buy in from that supply chain, and that could be it. You know, just come and visit for a day, have a sandwich, have a toaster, have a coffee, meet someone, get their work done, order something, take it home or not. Residential stuff, 3, 4 day, 5 day stays with a course or not, meet a mate or not. Yeah. Maybe some event stuff, summertime, 1 week sort of come and go, stay, camp type things, and then we'll do training. We actually offer adventure training very, what would I say, novel. Extremely safe, extremely hard, and just what Bitcoin issue into a recent amount of money, questions to ask about their identity, what they can achieve now. They've been promoted to perhaps a level of incompetence, and you're starting to worry, like, I'm tough enough. Like I said, in the last one, I was good enough for the stack that we were talking about, but just like with the hardware wallet and the setup for your column, you've got to build yourself 10 x Mhmm. For that stack as well because it's not just enough to hold it. It's the judgment that's lacking in the 10 x next that will get you well over your skis and wrecked. And I just think I wanna front run that with some really well delivered, really, really high end courses that help Bitcoiners and in sympathy to particularly Bitcoiners.
What are you shit at? Well done. 100 k party, aren't we all very clever, but now that that's all over and we can't dine out on a price target, what now with the money you've made, presumably, can you deploy? And let me tell you, if you if you do, it's a lot harder than the initial investment. And you might say, you are stupid you. You shouldn't be putting that back into the fiat world, and then maybe that's true. But I am in fiat. I live in fiat. The Bitcoin is the tool, and it measures my economic value. But I am very much analog. If you squirrel yourself away and you don't give yourself any skills, you don't have any adventures, no skills, nothing. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a number that you've you've deferred everything,
[00:25:13] Unknown:
not just a lot, but everything. I just think you'd come out overall a weaker person with more money. Well, also, you know, how much of it is spendable? And how can you use that to improve your life and the people around you? And so when I started driving into this place, the wheels started turning. You have the co working space. You have a factory where you have CNC machines. Yes. You have potentially we could talk about Well, you're talking about broad broad fabrication of many different product and a safe space to bring either family or just get away yourself or with a clear head somewhere to work, somewhere to sleep, somewhere to manufacture, to meet other like minded people. And I think a lot of the the ideas that people have, it's okay if it's just code, and you can sit in a laptop in a cafe or wherever you are in the world, and you can produce something. But when you start talking about the things that we're doing with Ungovernable Misfits clothing Yeah. Or you wanna start making custom cases or this or that, whatever it is, a lot of people will then go, okay, I wanna do that. They're then gonna go and splash out a shit ton of money for a CNC machine if they wanna use that. Then they've gotta have a place to put it. Yeah. Then they've gotta have a place to put it. Yeah. You're right. You're right. You can't run it because you're gonna piss the missus off because it's so fucking loud. You know, it's in your garage.
You're in there. It's cold. It's not quite the right working space. I tried to do it with all the printing stuff. I was trying to do it in in a, conservatory, in the fucking sweltering heat, with 300 degree ovens running at the same time.
[00:26:43] Unknown:
Mate, we need to get a GoPro on you. Yeah. You're a channel 4 documentary. Yeah. It's like, what was that? The chimps,
[00:26:51] Unknown:
documentary, wasn't it? Chimps in the wild or whatever it is. It's like that. I think David Attenborough might be up for a comment on what you do. Yeah. You're not a mate. Really special needs. But my point is that, like, if you wanna have one foot in that physical world where you're producing art, where you're producing something that's one off and custom, especially if you wanna Especially if you want to make something that's really beautiful and well made, which is what ungovernable misfits are going for. It's fucking hard, and it's expensive to get all that equipment. Yeah. Well, so when we talk about a meshidal, we talk about shared resources. Yeah. Not in a communist way, but in in a sense of, like, there's a place I can come and rent all this kit. I'm only allowed to rent it because I'm trusted enough. Yep. And I can only afford to rent it to you because you're not. I'm not pulling out the Tomballer called the public. Yeah. I'm pulling out the Tomballer of maybe, Nosta,
[00:27:41] Unknown:
NPUB, LinkedIn, or UberScored people. Now this is what's clever. The narrative will say social credit score social credit score, but it isn't because there's no arbitrary setting of that. You can join that protocol or not. Yeah. But if you come as a blank one name, it's not that you're not trusted at all because it's there's no bad faith, but there's stuff that you can't show someone who could generate their identity at the gate. Yeah. So it's about showing what you need to show to people. It's what we're doing intuitively now by reputation and subjectively Yeah. And just making that part of it a little bit less fuzzy and a little bit more objective and then tying it into things like access passes or even just a booking ability Yeah. Using nostril rails for the social side of it and Bitcoin for any financial side to settle. That's a huge filter, and it's not a filter for filter sake. The cost of open yourself up to the people who are Bitcoiners who are sociopathic Yeah. Is astronomical and everyone listening is born a cost. If we get this bit right objectively, it's hard to fake who you are with things on the ground business done interactions had long term, Lindy behavior, then you can't put Bitcoin on your profile, put Bitcoin hat on, nuzzle into a group of people who are trusted in good faith, and then been naive Yeah. And you've mirrored them and just scooped out their whole life savings on a promise. Yeah. Because they are the general the the average person on Bitcoin Twitter is the general public. They're a Bitcoiner by name, but they are just in it. Someone who's invested in an asset,
[00:29:13] Unknown:
they don't necessarily have the same principles.
[00:29:16] Unknown:
If at all invested?
[00:29:17] Unknown:
Yeah. If at all invested. But the difference is, like, long term interaction with certain Bitcoin people Mhmm. I could say to you a 100%. I would be like, right, there's 5, 10 people in the UK where I'd go, I promise you, if you open your doors to them, they are solid. Yep. They'll come and use your machinery. If they break something, they'll tell you. Yep. If they See how cheap that is? Like, as a favor, like, hey, mate.
[00:29:41] Unknown:
Just saw your factory. Can borrow it on Saturday. Yeah. Insurance. Who are you? Exactly. Right. But you can have open policies. You can have contract to visitors. Yeah. But you cannot do it from public levels of assumed trust. Yeah. Because they're trying to sue you because they slipped on something. Just too variable, and it's too open to abuse. People come into Bitcoin. They go, I get this group. They're a bunch of mugs. They are so sold on the upside of what they've obviously got. But for me, I can't they they're like people who can't see the color blind, and they know the traffics to move from green to red or whatever because Mhmm. All the cars move. They're completely just scanning the room for pockets and what words can unlock the pocket to give me the thing so I can pay myself a salary and get on the next panel. And we've go in decades with no value. Yeah. And, I think this might be a better thing to I don't wanna sell to, like, the real good clever guys. I just want this region's catchment of blue collar who have to fucking deliver Yeah. To Fiat, missus Miggins, and Karen, and still carry over and still pay tax. I want all them. And you can keep all the all the other ones Yeah. Because they don't seem to be of any use. Yeah. You want people who are producing real value. Or they're very little, just not robbing. Yeah. Yeah. So you're just like covering yourself in glue and running through a meetup and ruining people's lives with these shit sponsors. Yeah. Don't get me going. Yeah. But that's the things that we covered on the last one. We did. Sorry. Shit sponsors, complete cunts, a lot of fakes. Yeah. A lot of people who are more fiat minded than most fiat people you can imagine, but they wear a bitcoin hat. That's it. Fucking lazy. Like, we were we were right, but the thing is what I'm, like, starting to get to being a bit older is at that point we're right, but you've not fucking won anything. Yeah. You've actually made your identity a derivative of the person you hate because you haven't got fucking anything to compare it to. You just know it's wrong, and you're just selling moral Tupperware to your mates. Mhmm. You've got put red meat on the table because the best criticism is an iteration of the different things in your model or stack than is what you dislike in others. Yeah. Yeah. And then better than that, you've proven your argument out in reality, praxis, and you've also instantly got people who will move from that shit platform that now they've got no other option, and you just have to moan at them and they still go on to it. They've got a second one. It's better. It makes its own argument. So it's kind of some of this is, like, stop moaning, start building. I mean, that's 2 people moaning who are both then not and built, and now you're up and off the ground and in a different sort of line of expertise, if you wanna call it.
I think it's just eating pain. So I I I think that's I don't I don't feel very good at anything. I honestly don't. Honestly,
[00:32:22] Unknown:
feel like I'm winging it to everybody. Just winging it. No. No. I think you've got a good vision of what you wanna do here and you're grafting.
[00:32:29] Unknown:
It's wacky. It's just so wacky, and it's so hard to keep lads motivated who just wanna work on a wage. And you think, if I just pay your time, you shouldn't it shouldn't matter what you what I want you to do up to a point. Yeah. But it's not really true in real life. They need to have at least an understanding that you've got something you're gonna tie this off to later even if it doesn't make sense in the medium term. That was hard. Also I I can imagine. And just me not being particularly credible. Just a bit bit too relaxed. Yeah. Well, I think I think over time, that becomes easier and easier
[00:33:00] Unknown:
in the sense that when you get to a stage where these gates can open. So I paint a picture in however many months or whatever it is. Milestones like that, like, Unimogs turning up. Yeah. Like, if you battlefield indicator that the guy might be eccentric, but also on something is a Unimog.
[00:33:17] Unknown:
Yeah. And then a second one. Yeah. And then a yard. And then a second woodland. And then all the yellow shit everybody sees at the side of the road that you're on farmyard, but twice as much of all that yellow stuff Yeah. Yeah. Jcb. So that's a good combat indicator that he's not bluffing, but we're just about to connect the first profitable line of a project that's been in the making since before we met. And, again, the phase of this that launched off is our moaning and analyzing the problem. This is the response now, what will come from today and what you've seen and then whatever else leaks out onto the Internet. Yeah. Well Gotta be quiet.
[00:33:54] Unknown:
I I can see a I can see a scenario where sort of 6 months to a year from now, you have some events. Mhmm. You have some co working space. You have the ability for people who are trusted to sign in, sign out. You have a hub for a British mesh to Dell part of a British mesh to Dell. Bigger than Britain. But the yeah. Eventually, I'm just saying No. No. Can't say too much, but other country. Okay. I know what you're thinking. So yeah. There's other stuff boiling. I promise you listeners. There's there's there's good exciting stuff.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
But just a place for people to come and Well, we don't have to meet in Bitcoin Amsterdam now, do we? And pay a £500 fucking ticket to meet our friends now, do we? No. Because within you 4 hours as an effort, I appreciate that. Let's say someone in Scotland at 6 hour effort that shit, but a few log cabins and a few right of the people. Like, we all we don't have to do is go on fountain and just say who's nice. Right? Mhmm. Right now, that's real value for value because now like, anybody that's associated in a way that they can't backwards reverse on your show, who's gone the hard yards with you, in whatever way that means to you Yeah. Well, all good. Everybody folds in into the bigger net. The mesh, will build it out. It won't just be a a white paper. It will be a delivered instance of this, and it'll be extensible to others of my own and extensible to people who make their own, like relays.
And it's not complicated. Fiat profit margins have been crushed so much that a single use case puts you underwater on your job, and you're blood dry, and then you just either top yourself, which is the biggest killer of men in the UK at the moment. Is it? In our age group, it absolutely is. And in Wales, it's big, and in forestry, it's big. Well, that's right. So alright. So bad as that is bad as that is, there's a reason. Yeah. It's because everyone's on a starvation trajectory. They've been over defined in their roles in Fiat, and then they're being bled along those roles to the point they're meaningless. And then the answer, the important part isn't that. It's to say, right, what do you wanna do about it? Yeah. You just have a cry wank over this until we're 80 and get you get your lunch robbed, and that's it, and then be derivative of other people, or the response is to be the opposite, and we say, right. Problem is single use everythings.
Mhmm. We will run 15 activities off here that don't just run on profit, but bleed and nourish into all of the other side things we care about. All our spare time, all of our spare resources don't leak back out into nonsense. They fall back and help other people. Yeah. And if you can do that, we've got this we've got the scoreboard with Nosta to keep a track of that without undermining your identity and making you visible. You just have a little coin or a card or a badge or it, and you can just come through, and it's not because we're exclusive. It's because you've done stuff that can't be faked. It's the whole thing about our money being valuable. How do I know you are? Yeah. It takes ages. I know you are. It's not no. You can't do that with everybody. If you're gonna try and hit 200, 500 people Mhmm. A month visiting,
[00:36:55] Unknown:
you can't do that type of due diligence No. No. Anecdotally on everybody. You can. You gotta get that bit right. You can do it to some extent in terms of there's proof of work in people you you know
[00:37:07] Unknown:
very closely and well, and then there's, like, the group around them. So, like Archery board stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Like You got your bull's eye guys, lie in the road, kids their kids get a kidney. Yeah. The first one. No one's having the second one. But that those, like, communist people. Yeah. In that sense of familiarity, like, you are communist. And then socialist guys, definitely do a favor. Definitely do some mates, right, definitely do something, but not, alright, you know, should be around a bit longer or whatever be be more. And then people on the outside, like, oh, mates have mates. Like, oh, alright. I definitely say hello, but beyond that or Yeah. That someone will vouch for you. But that vouching is like photocopying reputation.
You lose fidelity at each hand off Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And communication, and the person is, they might be alright when they can afford to be and real nasty when they can't afford to. Yeah. Yeah. And they might have a great reputation with the mate because they might have something in with them Yeah. But they might get handed off to you and dunk you. Yeah. And that's costly. Costs everybody. It's cost us. We like, get bad business models, build and beg, no product market fit, no customers. That was capital that went into 5, 10 salaries of every project that's failed and back into fiat in salary taxed nonsense.
I can't it won't do. No. We've got to have better products. Quality's got it's it's one of them. It's like, oh, I can't add we can't make all this add up. Then the paradoxical answer when things are that hard is to just try harder. You do more, not just a little bit more. You relook at this until you can make a plan that you can see pay more than it costs to do. And the way I found to do it is if I can have a cost base that pays out of one role, but serves 10 lines of products,
[00:38:50] Unknown:
then we're alright. Yeah. So I mean, a big one for you is obviously timber
[00:38:55] Unknown:
Mhmm. Which then can come in here as not just dollars per ton or pounds per ton. It becomes something I'd lose money on that, by the way. Would you? If I put a hat on, say, I'm doing UK Forestry Yeah. I lose every tonne of logs at round. If I sold round logs to the round log buyer Yeah. I'm out. Okay. Peace. That that meme, the disappearing guy. Mill it, and you make your losses back and double your margin so you get a normal margin business out of a sawmill at the at what I've tested on the ground. Yeah. Real, by the way. Not like what I think. We did a year of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's when you came, 2020. Everything else after that are similar multiples up, and some of the machinery and some of the men are fixed cost, obviously, but the lads now got a fantastic job. If they're really good at sawing, they can go forestry or they can go up to construction or across to Devon. And if there's something that they've got, like, fear of heights, fear of something that's holding them back so we've got a lad who comes on. He's great. He's scared of heights. He's a really good sawman on the ground. Won't do the rope work, which is the natural progression in that thing. Yeah. Scared of heights. So we get a training guy in. He loves me because we've got loads of land that he doesn't need to use any time of the year but a week. Yeah. And it's totally private.
So he might deliver a little remedial trust type thing wearing away at a phobia for a guy that unhitches him. Right. Now we're talking. And it's not employees there are none. It's contractors who keep coming back whenever they want. Don't have anything with them. Just say, on the days you can't get some good paying work, you can come down at short notice, and there's always a low, urgent, high importance job to do. Yeah. So I can put myself at maximum flexibility because all these projects, it doesn't matter for me if they get over the line by a time. They're not on debt. I just build them, charge them like batteries, keep going, and we're just at a point where we've got about 8 jugs, 3 quarters away full. Mhmm. And now I've got another, like, next push to do, and I can just connect 1 or 2 of them up to full and making money. Yeah. And it's boring. The boring bit's the money. The boring bit's the money, but the boring bit unlocks all these other Correct. Things. I call them denied areas. I think they're denied areas. They're all blockers.
You know, money is not motivator, and lots of it won't get you anything amazing. But it's like oxygen. Like, don't matter how much. Like, you've got enough. It's enough. Yeah. If you haven't, you're deficient. You're in trouble. Same with money. Yeah. Your boring parts of the business
[00:41:14] Unknown:
mean that you're not indebted
[00:41:17] Unknown:
and on time pressure and everything else pressure. I can't be. Yeah. You've seen even in the course of today. What have we had today? So we started off the dog had a drama on the lake. Yeah. So I went in clothed. We don't have hot water here. Yeah. So if you if you don't know how to do that and get back out and feel comfortable about it, our day's over then. Yeah. But it wasn't. We came back. We had a fix on a puncture for a blinking forklift that was blocking 3 lads. Then that was fixed. The guy drove away. What happened? Well, the one broke. Gearbox. And the gearbox broke. Yeah. Right. But the game didn't end because we've got 5 other jobs. Once that primary job, we've got an alternate and a contingency and emergency job for them lads. Yeah. I don't mind because I can still turn around and say, alright, lads. Don't know what the plan is tomorrow, but you can come and then we'll be busy. We would get that fixed and we're off and running on lift. Yeah. But if we can't lift, we'll go off and maybe push the CNC project along. Yeah. Go out and do a survey. There's loads and loads and loads. So you never lose your energy. And it's something that I can see building over many years because you've a, you've got a lot of land. I've Do you think I I I've got the minimum amount for the do you think it's the minimum amount for to bear this concept out? Would you think that you could do it on a lot less? I mean, it's a win win answer for me because other people listen. I think it's the perfect amount what you've got for what you've told me your plans. Yeah. Okay. And the and Good. What I like about it is, for someone who's not physically seen this, it's not just like you come in and there's like a big construction area next to a field or something like that. What I really like about it is there's little pockets and sections
[00:42:47] Unknown:
that are tucked away. It should be like like rooms. Yeah. Yeah. I do. So there's like certain bits where I was like, I can imagine a couple of log cabins here and a couple of people sitting by a fire having a conversation. And then I can also imagine here. So this this could be a perfect workspace. Yeah. And then I imagine here. Okay. This could be some There's these little pockets. Then there's 2 beautiful lakes. Yeah.
[00:43:08] Unknown:
Which Which are lovely. It's amazing. They're lovely to have a, like, near death experience in. Yeah. Yeah. To go to a for a Christmas
[00:43:14] Unknown:
classic Emmerdale Christmas special. That was worth the drive. Just that. Just seeing you go in. I I was worried about the dog, not you. Oh, my little lad. He's gone for sleep on the bed. Yeah. He's had a busy day. He has. Little whopper. But, yes, it's it's something about those little pockets, which makes me think it won't feel crowded or on top of each other like I say, a conference will do. If there's a course going on or people are working on doing some clothing or doing something Mhmm. That I feel I could come here. And if if I want just an evening to record a podcast away from everyone, Or if I wanna go and paint for the evening and I wanna set up a studio, that I could do that and I could be my own person away from everyone, not on top of them. And that's, I think, really important for people who are trying to be creative.
[00:44:02] Unknown:
How much should that cost? You go out and pay that on the high street watch list. There is no there is no, you can't buy it because Exactly. You you literally you can't buy. You can't buy it. You can't buy it. Yeah. Like, $300 bitcoin. Yeah. You know what I mean? And when you realize that, you're like, oh, so I care about your output, actually. Yeah. Get it's funny how this is, like, sympathetic because listening to a pod when we're doing this is better than listening to your own thoughts. So you just crack a pod on. Now I've got a stake in the quality and you're at your upside. Yeah. And you've got costs and you've got stuff that you can't to cater to completely at your comfort would be too expensive. Yeah. And then the weak, the bitch, blames the audience, Not generous enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They don't get it. You don't know. You try sorting a pod out. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. You go back to your problem. You wanted the pod, not them. Yeah. They're listening. I'm listening. Yeah. And now, particularly with your listeners, it's just that sense that even though it is growing in numbers as as they typically do, the depth of support, the resonance with people that's spent years developing ideas that we've been constantly proven right, constantly borne out or at least not wrong on average as much. Yeah. Yeah. I say that. Sure. Nice safe one. And here we are. Everybody's peddled, and we've all sort of got a bit of something. It's spicing up what one person's job is with another person's job and what they don't know about the other one and doing it in combination and then doing it in generalist projects.
[00:45:32] Unknown:
Yeah. And having the space having the space to do it with a clear head to be creative, you need to have a space to go to. Not a fucking WeWork Mhmm. In the city. No. It's not here. No. You know, being here so, for example, somehow my job is doing these podcasts. I don't even know how to set up 2 mics on my fucking so so because we're here Yep. Even in the early days, there's someone who's
[00:45:56] Unknown:
very, very competent Yep. On the moment. But, yeah, who can who can help? Can we say can we say what it is? I'll do an impression. Yeah. Go on. Yeah. I mean, we we, you know, we we could do it. It'd be very hard. We could do And there's, like, 5 minutes late, yeah. I think it's done. Finished it. Yeah. Yeah. It cured cancer. Yeah. It was pretty hard, but, it turns out, wasn't it? Just cured cancer. Yeah. Yeah. Just cured cancer. Yeah. It's Saturday afternoon, but I sort of took it into Sunday morning, but, yeah, it's pretty it's cool. Yeah. It's done. Pretty cool. It is done. I'll do a demo in a minute. Give myself a country. It's like that. It's like that's sort of some understated to the so Britishly understated that it's just brilliant.
Hilarious. Comes around the corner and just does great stuff, but you are right. We've got a Bitcoin on-site, misterblackcoffee Yeah. And he's knocking the CNC mill together. Yeah. And, he's not Just
[00:46:47] Unknown:
for anyone listening, he's knocking the CNC mill together. It's not like these little ones that you're gonna do a pin badge in your Garage. It's the size of my house. And it makes houses.
[00:46:58] Unknown:
Yeah. It like, so here's another one. So you've got me in general, Moaney and Reply Guy, you can't stop at the crywank stage. You've got to fight through it. Yeah. And the crywank what what happened was the CNC mill was never in the stars, and then we brought a guy on. He's a really good sawmill and really good forestry guy and was pretty kind of over performing, and he's like, right. Write your own ticket now you have whatever you want so right I want to be a timber framer that's great because we do saw milling so we can do construction now yeah you get skilled up supply is cheap I trust you to a degree go on a timber framing course and then as a few bad times, it gets a license pulled. Yeah. And I go, ah, shit. So now I still wanna do timber framing, but the lads, it's it's not their fault, anybody's particular fault, but you just can't if you stop there, you're like, oh, every time I try and trust somebody Yeah. They let me down, And then you're spiteful and bitter and Yeah. Everybody's and you haven't got anything in your back. You've tried this first half, but you haven't won. So you've done enough to be right, but you've not done enough to win. Yeah. And so the trick is then with the CNC is to say, right, we really want the win. You've got to answer the problem for what it is. And if the problem is you've put too much trust in the human element of it, get more metal. Yeah. And then and then at that point, we ordered it. And by the time that guy had completely resigned, I, like, refused to do the original work to do, the mill's running.
And Nim is the guy to do that technical bit where the lads finish off the what would you call it? The big nuts and bolts and concrete drilling and stuff like that. We bring it up to a base, and then it's funny where those lights are totally happy and confident Yeah. And the aluminum bits, the bits that are very fine and Yeah. They're like, oh, they sort of treat it like the edge of their earth. Yeah. Yeah. We don't go past there. It's like the whole it's like start Lord of the Rings. Like, I've never been this far from home, but then he's is on the other end of the baton, and he's like, oh, I didn't know how the hell you got it up to that because I'd have paid for you not to have been able to do that. But wow. Shit. Fuck. If it's in. Yeah. And I'm I've got arrested away, and he's out doing his professor Weeto bit on it in the cold while we're just yakking. We're we're just talking shit having nice coffees. He's out in the cold. Yeah. Best place for him. Best place for him. Yeah. Treat him mean, keep him keen. That's it. No. But he kidding. He's he's but that's it's great. Like, how could I ever attempted somebody of that caliber Yeah. In terms of, like, to go through indeed.com and find him. You don't find him. You do not. It's the same principle with the land and the activities and the training and the products. It's like give to get. Yeah. And it's enforced in protocol from Nostra and Bitcoin. Let's just see if that works. That is another massive
[00:49:29] Unknown:
win if you are here. Not only is it a beautiful place and it has the machinery and blah blah blah. It's just the fact that you are surrounded by people who are very competent. So you might get to a project. You're saying, okay. I'm I'm creating this piece of art, or I'm doing this bit of design work. I'm used to working with Photoshop. I'm used to working with CAD, but I now wanna do this extra thing. I don't know how the fuck to use it. It's just pissing me off. You turn around and go, coffee Yeah. Or whoever else. There's other people here as well, which we won't speak about.
[00:49:57] Unknown:
And not just techie guys. It could just be a practical with like a just a handy guy or a machine operator. Yeah. You're like, I can't grow the scope of the product and the level of interest I've got because I have a digger. I couldn't get in and drive it myself. Yeah. You're like, right. So what would be a bit of digger time for a bit of build a bit of an app for me or something. Corn or word or It is a bit of that bar thing, and it's not to get over excited too much about it. It's just to say at the simplest bottom 20% of the concept, it works great. Yeah. Well, you just having competent people around. I'm not I'm very very blessed, especially with having govlon misfits
[00:50:28] Unknown:
is that I have problems all the time because I'm fucking midwitt.
[00:50:31] Unknown:
Correct. But I also, at the click of a button, I have really smart people who I've built trust with, who I try and look after, I hope. And they always look after me. Yeah. So it means It's self interest. It's just self interest. Yeah. I I want your outcome, and it doesn't come at the expense of mine. So I'm not competing with you, and I'm along your upside. So you shine sunlight on the bit you're good at, you're competitive at. The problem is the handoff, the spread, the energy transfer doing that applied in the last 5 years on Bitcoin, last 5000 years in humans. It's a shit show. Scoreboard's knackered. The money got fixed. Great. Then the naivety of acting in that while sociopaths are operative. Great money. The picture's still a mess. Still can't track how people behave. They can pop up, rob you, piss off Yeah. With loads of excuses, and it's just a cost at the moment of doing our business, but the tech's catching up and people's concepts and things are catching up. If they're not, they can add to whatever they've been working on their own to a joint effort later Yeah. Through this one or someone else's fork of it or brilliant. Yeah. No. I think it's really cool. But that's the answer is if you don't like the parties you're being invited to, you've got to set your own up or at least make an effort to do something as an alternative because if you're not, you're talking through your hat. Yeah. You might be right. It doesn't mean you're wrong either, but it's not enough. It's not enough to convince people not to go make a mistake.
You've got to be the alternative where they they can't they're tempted away from the other shit stuff, and we're not good enough. We're not attractive enough to be accounted to some of the bad behavior at the moment, but it's not far off. And it's all working well as it is. Like, this is still net positive. We still got robbed, but we still come out with more. It's good, but this bit is a bit like, let's tighten up the bit that gristles everybody. Mhmm. The rip offs, the chat, the preannouncements, then you know what it is. It's fighting, the schisms, the silly arguments.
Because everyone's bored waiting for the thing that they the number, the price. Woah. Doesn't matter. Go and get wet. I also think I'm getting a leak. A lot of the people who have the arguments
[00:52:32] Unknown:
and create the noise and do the engagement farming, I actually think a lot of them just have fuck all to offer. Well, that's what they offer. Like, go in, take 2 things, make a contradiction,
[00:52:43] Unknown:
get 2 sides to convictly argue with each other in your thread, and then go, let's take this onto my podcast, and we'll resolve it on there. It's the Piers Morgan. Yeah. Yeah. Shuffle shuffle, take the energy, take the activity, and just net it into your paid platform, stuff the numbers. Yeah. It's all negative. Go to a conference, emcee it, provide no fucking value. Introduce the introduce a royal as the prince of suburbia. I don't know. I'd pick it on people, I suppose, is exactly the opposite of my point. No. No. But say It's that should be diluted Yes. By noise of better people being bigger and better in the space, not shrinking Yeah. Moaning, having nothing to show as alternative, and then they become bigger in the void. Yeah. I won't do it. So I'm not big, like, into not big at all really, but just at least in this little sphere, I could apply a concept and show it. It makes a lot of sense. And I completely
[00:53:35] Unknown:
can imagine in whether it's a year ish or year and a half from now, people coming into here, driving into here, saying, I've booked I've booked a 3 day or a 4 day stop. I'm meeting this person, this person, this person because we wanna discuss this new project, whether it's tech related or it's in the physical world, they're trying to manufacture a product. I can imagine that you have an area that people can purchase either hardware or clothing
[00:54:02] Unknown:
or Anything. Anything. This is the supermarket. This is the Pleb supermarket. Tough jumpers, stuff you need, you know, whatever it is here. And then the other one is if you are local and you're actively putting stuff in, you're helping, could I have a half assembled car in one of the sheds? Yeah. Like, 3 or 4 of you doing that, and, yeah, you might all be devs as well. Yeah. So, you know, when your edge wrecked, which it gets, go and span or something or go and go out on the quad. And I can be that generous because the cost isn't as big as if it was to be offered on Fiat rails completely. Yeah. Yeah. It's like having your brother do it. Mhmm. But the distance in brother is in a family is carried to a friend with tech. Yeah. It's the score. It's the objectivity. I can be more trustworthy further out. I can cast my line out a bit further and not feel like that it's the equivalent amount of risk. Build some cool shit. We're getting a skate park in here. Sorry for the non sequitur. Skate park. Well, that's quite a bit robot dog. Yeah. There's a robot dog. Both are quite good examples of a point that I wanna capture is that if you have a generalist project, you'd be surprised what things get cheap in scope. So the skate park thing to to make that is I don't know what it be maybe 100 of 1,000 of investment if you were to open up and hold out as a skatepark. Yeah. But if you've got if you've got a massive hangar shed we're in and all the machinery is on the ground floor, then you just put transition ramps in between them all and the top tower, and it is a skate park, and it's easy because we can make out a timber, and the CNC prints it. Yeah. It I mean, that's for the wrong maybe the diminishing word, but it basically, if you put logs in the bottom of your Brother printer Yeah. Round logs, it will come out like a house. So if it's a house, you can and that that thing's 20 dot 5 foot long or something. Yeah. So we could take a round log and machine it on there in a vertical post with loads like Bitcoin totemic stuff on it and that we can machine a hanger in the top of it and make framing using CAD. So you can't do that unless you'd have set out with a broad ability to fab. Yeah. And where it ends up crystallizing into projects is really just where the chips fall on the ground. Yeah. It's the broad ability to create and to be able to defer your time, but then speed up. Mhmm. It's the ubiquity of being able to put resources, pull them back, and what's lost in the pullback is not all lost because you're not on debt, and you're not trying to only do one thing. Yeah. So all the failed projects that we don't talk about ever, me included, they're all cut all the bones of them are all lying around ready to be put back together into the next effort. So it's quite efficient in that sense.
[00:56:24] Unknown:
Let's see. Let's let's just see where it it can get to. I feel like we're talking in future tense again. We're talking But we have traveled some distance, I think. Yeah. Well, the reason the the reason I'm comfortable talking in that future tense is since I've known you when you talk about doing something, you do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be sat here with you. I wouldn't make the I wouldn't invite you if I've done it. Yeah. I feel like I've not done my homework. So I know that when you're talking about something seriously, you'll get it done. I also am very, very confident in the people who are around you. The location is very, very good. And there's also a need for this. You know, it's a need that I feel myself. I'm like, oh, I'd like somewhere to paint, but I need to be away from the noise of the world. I need to be able to do that. I wanna be able to build. I've got lots of ideas that I'm like, oh, well, I don't have a proper workshop. So to be able to do that as a All these blockers? Yeah. And it's not wrong, and you're right to conclude that you can't solve that problem by buying a workshop outright for that one use case. Yeah. It's not worth it. But I have one one hundredth of a workshop
[00:57:18] Unknown:
just for you. That's it. Yeah. And I like you one one hundredth enough to give it to you. Right? Yeah. And I know it's, like, it's funny. Like, it might be a little bit more than one one hundredth, mate, but the point is, if it's cheap, you can be generous with what you've got a lot of. Right? And if you've got something that is capital fixed asset, as long as you program that properly and you can do it with people that you can trust more than average public, it works. It does work. It really works. And that makes me excited because
[00:57:44] Unknown:
you can be very creative. It's all well and good, like, making money and having a load of early people who are like, oh, okay. I have much more time now. I've invested some money into Bitcoin. I now have more Bitcoin than other people will do in the future.
[00:57:58] Unknown:
Okay. Well, what are you gonna do with it? That's it. Like, I don't think a lot of people, me included, really, when first whatever your rabbit hole thing was. It wasn't really about who I was and what I was trying to solve for. It was that money was a problem. Felt like I was sort of walking along the road. I don't remember when I started on it, but money was fucked. Yeah. And I didn't know why that was a particular problem to me because if it what was it holding me back from? Something. But it doesn't matter if you're being held back. When the door opens because money becomes available, then it's really fucking important to know. What are you gonna What are you gonna do? Yeah. And who are you gonna help? Your judgment is your last stacks value, and you have not got it on the scale that this price appreciation is getting people to until you start to make contact with another, an unreliable person Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A loony relative who you can't cut out your life, but you have got to adapt to. These it you break ceilings, and you are in a whole new you're in the next level. It's one of those things to be careful what you wish for. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. But it's a good problem. It gives us access, and it we've got to break some of these false rules in Bitcoin, realizing Bitcoin value into the Fiat world. It's not a failure or Depends how you do it. Well, it does absolutely depend on you do it, but If if you go out if you liquidate all your Bitcoin Absolutely. If you go and buy a fucking Lambo Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, then you're a fucking retard. Well, it's just it's the it's the incontinence of that. Yeah. It's you couldn't give in. You gave into temptation. I'm not giving into temptation here. I feel like I'm consolidating an opportunity of money by accepting that we aren't, like, we said last two titles of we can't eat sats and you can't live in a Bitcoin.
And while that is glib, it is also true. Yeah. And if we don't augment any gains made in Bitcoin and economics Yeah. In back into the real world, you relinquishing it, and we can't go where the Bitcoin goes. You're painting yourself into smaller and smaller corners. Mhmm. And so my thesis in my excuse for coming back in and engaging is it's fucking miserable So just have a big savings account and no real purpose in life if your purpose is to stay out of the way of bullies and get richer
[01:00:01] Unknown:
There's worse fates, but it's not fun. Boring. Yeah. It's boring, and you don't even know why you're doing it. Well, you don't have a purpose, which is why when I imagine what could be done here, you know, someone has their savings. They love cars more than anything else. They fucking they have this idea of, I want to build this retro mod Mhmm. Vehicle, and I want to do it this way. I want it to look like this. But I want to actually have technology in it that's not readily available on the market. But I've got fucking loads of money. Yeah. But I want to do it. Yeah. This is a place or could be a place where people can say, can I just rent this area? Mhmm. I might work on it over the next 5 years. But where I can come and do these things, and where there's smart people around and there's the technology around that I can build that, whether it's a car or whether it's something completely fucking wacky I
[01:00:48] Unknown:
think it will be something like that. Yeah. You know, like, these, camper cars, like, the big ones, the Overlanders. Yeah. This is the type of stuff that the unit cost of producing them that you're gonna get a quote from a Fiat Yeah. Top in Europe. 3 quarters of a 1,000,000 quid, half a 1,000,000 quid, whatever it is. You can cobble it together. It's no worse quality for cooperating with people that you kinda mates with. And, yeah, they get It's more fun as well. If everything's covered in the site that you're working from on Tuesday, and you work there Thursday, Friday for 5 years, the cost is arguably 0 in terms of the investment. There might be an opportunity cost that you could have backed a better space in the yard. Yeah. But fucking hell. What a good problem to have. And what interesting content there could be as well is the other thing I'm thinking is like Like hackathons. Like, purely code, purely at Yeah. Conferences.
But here, fabrication, like, concepts. Fabrication
[01:01:35] Unknown:
workshops. But you can have a start to finish project. You know, I think there is enough content, which is the money's fucked, Bitcoin's gray. Yeah. Here's the most important things in a money. Yeah. You know, that has been done to fucking death. And, like, there's good stuff out there. We don't need to revisit it.
[01:01:54] Unknown:
Nothing left interesting in Bitcoin, like new discoveries. It's like we graduated that bit. There's not like the same old narratives come bubbling up from Twitter, and they're all it's the same shit. Take them apart. It's snacking.
[01:02:05] Unknown:
It's boring. Whereas, if someone was making some content here, I've made this vehicle that has got this. I've made this robot. I've CMC'd this thing. I've made this r. You know, all this different stuff. I'll be excited to cover that. Yeah. The stuff that we cover now, you know, I have the show with John. I do the odd show with you or, like, other people, but not that much. I've got the one with q and a on the technical side. You know, that's all stuff that I'm interested in. But the general Bitcoin content is fucking boring.
Whereas Right. I could come here and and say, hey, coffee. What you working on there? I'm like, I'm just, you know, a cure encounter in that. Yeah. I'm just I'm just building a plane. Yeah.
[01:02:41] Unknown:
Building a plane building a plane, but But he will do it. He's a rum lad, and he will do stuff like that. He will just come around the corner and and do and ship something. I just think he's one of them that but at that point that he gets the first win up until now being frustrated with being able to carry that from MVP product, maybe someone picks up and says thanks to, like, right, that is now integrated into a business that generates value back as a facility for Bitcoiners to do the same again. Yeah. Yeah. And it is the self reinforcing loop of actual value going along enough of a chain in enough of a breadth that it's got substance and it's got gravitas. Yeah. What could be good is instead of people going on to the shit podcasts and into the shit big catchment areas for nonsense and scams, they might might just be pulled closer to this as an initial contact point than somewhere less scrupulous.
And if that's all I get out of it, it will earn me more than a decade of bitching because it'll be 3, 4, 5 faces who aren't wrecked, and it will be carried along with profitable businesses. Hopefully. So good. That's how you do it. I think I feel so much better about that than just sitting and watching a shit show. Oh. A shit show and a shit show. Build some cool shit that you can talk about that's interesting. It's fucking hard as well. Like, if you come and did it, you're gonna wreck your head for days, and then at the end of it, you'll have a win, and it'll come out with such brilliant feel. I'd love to be able to and I will host that here, and we'll be doing I'm doing it already. We've got our own projects internally, and then they'll just open up and open up. So, yeah, it's gonna be a good year, I think. I think so. A little bit less traveling, not got much more time here, and probably just be staying pretty close to home. Yeah.
Because it's all sort of running along, and now it'll I'm hoping hoping it would be a bit more visible. I really don't like talking this at this level of depth without any substance on the Internet yet, but it's coming. Max can confirm. I can confirm. It's it's all here, isn't it? It's all here. We've ordered the the paper cups and the what are them things that hang on the back of the bunting? And yeah. Yeah. And we've ordered the paper plates. Yeah. It's all here, ain't it, Max? Yeah. That's it. So the party is on. All done. Can confirm. Oh, shout out to mister dice rolls. Perfect example. Yeah. Alright, mate. I've got a mate. He's he lives nearby. He's gonna come along for the day. Okay. Mister dice rolls turns up. He's a top club. Yeah. Practical hand guy has to do a job to someone else to their satisfaction for money after and asked to have to do that for life. And now the relief coming on here is like, oh, right. Here we go. I've got a surface with all the Bitcoin is that's a big enough and relevant enough to what I do out there. I'll keep coming back, and he's gonna keep coming and chipping in. Yeah. I think he'll whatever he gives, he'll get, you know it. Yeah. And just any, like, one one person coming here and helping one bit of this at this point is just huge. Well, that's the thing. Like we said, you don't wanna bitch and moan too much because it doesn't get you anywhere. But within the groups of just talkers and bullshitters,
[01:05:34] Unknown:
there are some really fucking amazing people. Yeah. And they're getting diluted by nonsense. And so you you walk them out and you say, come on. Come here. Let's build some cool shit. Yeah. Let's show the world what can be done. Yes. It drowns out the squawking Yeah. Fucking nonsense. Yes. That's everywhere else. In a raft of choices of screaming
[01:05:54] Unknown:
hungry mouths. Any energy that goes on that node, however, we prove that does bounce back. It's provable, and all these others, you put money in, it's like a wishing well. The last time you see your money as it drops down the hole, it's gone with a load of noise and nonsense and narratives coming back out, and I wanted this one to be like that. Yeah. We always return our serve. Yeah. You come in and you put energy in because it's on analog, hard to fake business lines like tables and logs and big stuff. You can't fake it. If you come and help move the ball along and you get your ticket stamped, that's it. Now what you wanna do? Well, I'm a joiner. I'm a plasterer, but I wanna get into general building. Alright. Well, I've got a piece of land. It's 20 mile away, but it's a hill. That's alright. Digger, drive in, drive out 2 days flatland.
That unlock you? That make your life better? Yeah. Right. How many days does that do you can come back now? Now you don't have to worry about a fucking mortgage. Yeah. Not like not worry whether you can rent or buy whether just in what you do can get you built out and done. How independent can I make someone who just comes in is consistent here? It's just like a staring contest. Anybody who comes and does that, I will look them back in the eye and give it all back because this can go for ages. If the longer you can do that, the better. Yeah. And it we just lads just need so little encouragement.
The ones that really wanna get on when you see what they labor under and what a big enough project can relieve them off. It's just it's you just wake up and all you think about is connecting people who use how are you doing? Knackered. Struggling. Like, why? Why? What's the matter? That's this. It's that. It's food. Sleep. It's whatever it is. It's like shit, man. Like, if I just took that as a cost to my program, you're not being on it for that, can I just take it off yet? If we fix that, are you are you fit to go? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I just if you get me covered on this, I I can be for the rest of the week. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Too right. Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's just these are last most recent. It's not like we've got, like, 20 people a week coming on. It's just the odd guy when the free when they got a spare day over Christmas, he was climbing the walls of here a lot of us were. And each come up and grocked it grocked it in a second.
I couldn't pitch it to somebody off the street for days. Yeah. They'd be like, you've lost me. You've lost me. You've lost me. He's like, yeah. Get it? Oh, yeah. We'll do that. Oh, no. That's not too bad. Yeah. And then you're getting them talking about what they've done for years in a hostile environment competitively Mhmm. When they've been given 50% more resource with a project that they actually like the result of. Mhmm. Yeah. That's just one strand. So all these siloed knowledge strands, to a tech guys product and have a trainer verify that as far as the people involved and how they behave solid and everybody your builders got the best training and the best tech put in the building trade and all the others, man, you know, might not be like top competitive, but just slightly better, slightly less knackered is better.
Yeah. You know, like, it it doesn't take a lot, I don't think, to get people going. No. So I'm gonna try and look for momentum and then keep it. Give it all back. Just keep putting it all back in. I don't want it. Just let's it come out of nothing. Run it. Just let's see. Let's see who turns up, what they wanna do. But, like, don't come up sad and solvable problems. If you come away and they're all unhedged and you're fucked. Now it's like, alright. That thing I was pretending is holding me back. It isn't someone called me out and helped me. And now tomorrow, I've got to do the project. Yeah. Yes. I've got build God. Yeah. Tough. Yeah. That's that's that's the hard bit. The easy bits moaning. Everyone knows what's wrong. You can just heckle, and I've done that. I've been, like, made that an identity almost for the first few years of it. It's just honking. Yeah. Because you're always busy and it's not been much to apply, but now this pleb work, circular economies, that may be the wrong thing. Verticals may be better. That's starting to thicken up. Well, yeah. And then there's, you know, it makes me think of outside of ungovernable misfits. We've got these different groups like the pleb minor group Yeah. Associations of The strands of interest.
[01:10:09] Unknown:
Yeah. They're sort of mainly a listener base who are a tight knit group, who are talking about a certain,
[01:10:17] Unknown:
certain subject very tightly and look after each other. Mhmm. And so those pull in as well. Mhmm. You wanna mine on here? Yeah. Okay. Cool. I'll call my mate John. Yeah. It's done. Yeah. Like Yeah. You wanna have some tech stuff sorted out. Well, we know the people for that. And what's it cost? Like, what's it cost? If it costs nothing Mhmm. You don't. You're you're away. Yeah. If you wanna pay silly sausage prices on the high street plus VAT Yeah. And everybody else's cash insurance and all that, then that's a poor model. And it speaks to a lack of friends Mhmm. And a lack of shared purpose Yeah. Yeah. That people can be split up to that degree and taxed in between all these different bits, and they just live with it because they've just got so little in common with each other that a builder can't see what you can benefit from a tech company without having to go through a stupid gate. And we're all mates, so onwards.
The best of the Bitcoiners are the best of people. I've got a list. We both have list. I've got a list. I've got 2, actually. One's written in blood. No. But,
[01:11:21] Unknown:
like, yeah, it can't get bigger very easily. It can get shorter easily that it can get bigger. Right? Yeah. Right. That's reputation writ large. So But your list and my list are both lists where you go Same. These are some of the most there's a lot of crossover. But that that list where you go, oh, these are some of the most competent and trustworthy people on the planet. Yes. I treat them like family. They treat me the same. Yeah. And Anyway. Yeah. And if they need help, I'll help them, and I know it comes back. Yeah. You can do some remarkable things with that list. Well, we are now. Like, I'm It's this thing. It's it's only till now it's been
[01:11:57] Unknown:
my loyalty to an idea that just takes time to to cook. And now there are blokes across the site. It's really, really weird to have different strands in my life mixing. It's like putting all the zoo together in the middle of the car park. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's amazing what a tech guy can easily instruct a trainer on. Easily instruct a trainer on. Yeah. And then the blind the equivalent blind spot is equal and offsetting. Mhmm. And the value is to be blind in either area, but still be a specialist. You're definitely a specialist. Yeah, mate. I do I for minute or third specialist, you have a face. I'll let out of my fucking lizard brain. Mate, you are definitely a specialist. I am actually fully certified regarded. Yeah. We've got Highly recommended. Mental health. I've got mental health. Got a cowboyitis.
Do stupid things all the time. Risky stupid stupid boy. Don't know why. Mog took the mob down at icy hill. Nice. No reason to. Just for fun. It was just late. We worried it was gonna keep snowing. I invented a scenario where I had to get them all to the bottom of the hill. Because it's fun. Did 2 test breaks that failed. Yeah. And then went anyway. Well, honestly, it would take you that. That hill you came up for the first podcast. Yeah. That snowed, thawed, and froze. Oh, Jesus. And then snowed on top, so it looked like crunchy snow. Yeah. And the mod, the uni mod, like a big transit van. It went down 45 degrees with me in it on the wrong end, and there was no reason. I've done it that, and it did a bit of felling in the wind. Yeah. A bit silly. Yeah. That's silly. But, again, could invent something. I just like the risk. Yeah. But I yeah. We're working on it. And then what was the latest one? Oh, yeah. The bloody swimming with the dog. With the dog. And I tell you the truth, I was up to my knees, but then I was tempted to just get all the way into my neck, so I did. That was silly. I'm gonna get in tomorrow. Yeah. We're both gonna get in. Yeah. We will. But this time, I'll lay some ropes out and, you know, just in case, and maybe, like, go and fill that inner tube up with the tire that popped. Yeah. That would be a good idea. Oh, that'd be a good idea. Yeah. We could just, like, jam you in it. Yeah. Just throw you in.
So it's good fun, but the risky bit I'm trying to extricate the risk from the fun, but the risk is the fun. It only comes up every now and then. It just feels like a little devil takes over, and then something silly has to be done, and it always is done, and I always get away with it, and it's it's not gonna work. We've got we've got to do something about it.
[01:14:24] Unknown:
We'll work on that. We'll work on it. We've got tomorrow morning Yeah. We're gonna go swimming. Yeah. We're gonna rip a little pod maybe later tonight after we've had some food. After we have some food, maybe a couple of scotches. Yeah. Bit of food, maybe a little bit of a drink, and then we're gonna do another one. Yeah. Could even do one in the morning. So I think this is like an intro into Yeah. Talking about where we break the ice. Yeah.
[01:14:51] Unknown:
Where we were. Samson, bugger off. Get on. Sorry, Sorry, mate. We got the dog. Hello, mate. I think you might I think I might to piss the dog. He's he's he needs a whiz, I think. I need a piss. He's he's telling me in his way. So we'll stop it there then. Yes. Is that alright? I think that is a good A cracker. Yeah? Yeah. I think I'll come out of bummer. Yeah. Oh, I like a podcast. I think I should use you know what? You're quite well at that.
[01:15:16] Unknown:
Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope it's got your minds ticking away at some possibilities. If it has, make sure to get in touch. And if you enjoy what we do, please share it with friends and family, spread the word, and stay ungovernable.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless. Bitcoin.
[00:00:16] Unknown:
Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking 0. Welcome back to Ungovernable Misfits and another confab episode. It's been a while since I caught up with my good friend, Ben Gunn. It's always eventful. I can honestly say he is one of the weirdest individuals I've ever met in my life. Really hard work, really annoying, but also brilliant. And in this episode, we do a catch up on where we were on the last pod and what's happened since. And I can tell you, after my visit, a lot has happened, and there's a lot more to come. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. I hope it gets the minds ticking for anyone living in the UK and others from outside of the UK as well. And if you wanna get involved or you have any questions, you can message me on Fountain, Twitter, Nosta, Signal, Telegram, pretty much anywhere. Just get in touch. We wanna build this thing together.
Before we start, I wanna say a big thank you to everyone who's been supporting the show, whether that's sharing it with friends and family or boosting on any of the podcasting 2.0 platforms. I'm gonna read through the top boosts from the last Confab episode. The last Confab episode, in case you missed it, was with Zac and Q from Foundation talking about the new Passport Prime. Hashlatet with 61,020 sats. Rose gold is hot. I'm buying 1 in satin black. Q and a, lose the northern voice, please. It's kind of a turnoff. Late stage HODL with 25,000 sats.
Gravel voice max is better than AI max. 8th Muthrandir with 7,777 SATs. I loved the rose gold passport. Laughing face. Nathan Day, watch out for check neck with a link. Anyone can go and check out that link. Pies, AI Max is gay as fuck, bruh. And pies again, Yo. Boyaka. Boyaka. Mushroom. Mushroom. Mushroom. Mushroom. Beers. Beers. Fish. Fish. Fish. Fish. Cigarette. Cigarette. Cigarette. Rocket. Rocket. Rocket. Moon. Moon. Thank you, pies. And thank you to all the boosters. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Foundation Devices and Cake Wallet. Both of them sponsor this show. They sponsor the confabs, and they allow me to do things like this. They allow me the time to go and visit Ben and others, record these types of episodes, and build on Goverable Misfits.
If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.xyz. You can also check out the last confab. Not only are the team incredible with Zach and Q and others on the team building the best hardware out there, they're fully open source. They actually care about Bitcoin. They actually care about this movement, and they make it really easy for any fuckwit, myself included, to hold their own keys. With their new passport prime, it also unlocks so many other features for someone who wants to take control of their digital life. This is what I suggest to all my friends and family.
Everyone who uses these devices has a very simple onboarding process, and they feel comfortable, which means a lot when you're managing your own wealth. Foundation.xyzed, and you can use the code Ungovernable to get a discount. If you're looking for a desktop or mobile wallet for Bitcoin or Monero or both, you really need to check out Cake Wallet. Seth, the cohost I work with on the Monero monthly, previously at Foundation, is working really hard with the rest of the team to make it easy for people who actually use and actually live on Bitcoin. You can buy gift cards from within the wallet. You can pay bills. You can convert between currencies.
I'm also really looking forward to the integration with Foundation. 2 of the best teams out there working together makes me very excited about the future of privacy in this space. You can use this wallet on Mac, Linux, Windows, iPhone, or Android. It's really simple to set up. You can connect it to your own node. They have silent payments and many more features. Check them out at cakewallet.com. Enjoy the show.
[00:05:20] Unknown:
Robin Hood. I suppose for you, this is how it looks and useful. Yeah. I knew they had a use, so I just I haven't found it yet. I think I've got a hole. Yeah. That reminds me of that. You can see crows poke food out for, like, pipe with a stick. Crows are quite smart. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Give me a compliment. Thanks, mate. You're almost as smart as a crow. Yeah. Thanks, mate. Thank you. Welcome. I know crows are different because is it you the ones to eat them all? I'm a crotter. It's like you. No. That was me asking. Horrible now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine looking at a crow and thinking, can I eat you? Poor, mate.
[00:05:50] Unknown:
Right. There we are. I think that is Are we recording? Yeah. Let's just do a test. Let's see how this comes out. Just say something pointless.
[00:05:58] Unknown:
Max is a cock. Big cock. Yep. There we are, mate. Here we are again. How long has it been? Don't know, mate. You're the interviewer.
[00:06:09] Unknown:
I'm the,
[00:06:11] Unknown:
special needs. How long and what time? Yeah. Scope? Time. Events? Don't know. When was the last one? Amsterdam? Yeah. Couple of years. It's in the notes. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. It was over a year ago, a year and a half ago. Something like that. Right. Crikey. Walking around in the pissing rain. Yes. Smoking the local skinny cigarettes. Yeah. They didn't turn out to be good. They made me dizzy. Yeah. And, yeah, it was good. It was just we had a bit of a moan, didn't we? Grumpy old men in the park.
[00:06:42] Unknown:
Bitcoin edition. I think was we were whinging
[00:06:45] Unknown:
about the state of the world and the Bitcoin space, which arguably is actually fucking was way better than than it is now. Yeah. So the comments aged Yeah. But we win the kudos of being right about something bad again. Yeah. Yeah. Which is nice. Yeah. That's great. I was like that. But it's not all bad, and I think we covered a lot of positive stuff. I think particularly for me, it was just one of those by the time I got to talking to you, it was more about what I didn't know I was gonna do. Yeah. That's right. You know, there was a more it was more of a right a few wins and a few losses and a mixed bag of results, and it was just gathering that back up and taking account of it all, and what we're in price wise there, you know, talk about how long ago, I think I would say about $80,000 ago. Yeah. Probably. Would it be or would it be a lot less? I'm trying to think. Maybe we're, like The first Amsterdam was out the year before yours was it was $18,000.
I don't think we were far off that on this one. I I Yeah. Can't remember. But it it it was a long time ago in Bitcoin prices.
[00:07:40] Unknown:
But I remember you you not knowing what you were gonna do next. And then since then well, I'll start with I've just traveled down to your new what would you call this? Plot land? Yard? Plot land? Yeah. I'd call it a yard We've had a mesh node. We've had a wander around. Big fucking place. Yeah. Loads of space. Lots of land.
[00:08:00] Unknown:
Off the road. Yeah. Flat. Sheds. Cover from the weather. Mhmm. All the stuff. The other place. Yeah. The other place deprives you of. Had a wander around.
[00:08:10] Unknown:
Ben ended up in the lake in a frozen lake. Oh, my god. Yeah. I forgot that. Took the dog for a walk. He showed me around the land and ended up in a frozen lake trying to save the dog. Yeah. Like, you I've got a 45 kilo Malinois.
[00:08:24] Unknown:
I threw the ball out onto the edge of a lake. I thought just a bit of frost on and it was frozen. So big boy carried a jump solid ground and then made an ice well for himself about a meter away. And his little head was bobbing. He couldn't get his neck through the bit. So there's dad way steeping in. Like, that's the end of it. I didn't even think I don't even remember getting in. So, yeah, drama promised and drama delivered after about half an hour. Snow every month. But it's alright. It can always it can always get worse, and, that was fun, and no one died.
Just got a bit cold and wet. I like it. Yeah. I get a buzzer. I didn't do it deliberately that one, but but now we have literally broken the ice, and, we'll go for a dip tomorrow. Yeah. We'll go for a dip. Go and get wet.
[00:09:07] Unknown:
Very different to your last site. Yeah. Big plans, which we're gonna get into. Yeah. I think what's important is a year and a half, 2 years ago, you were quite lost in the sense of where you wanna go in in the world. Like, geographically, where do you wanna place yourself? You were discussing actually getting rid of the woods completely. Mhmm. Certainly not buying more land and and sort of expanding things. Yeah. Talking about all different places to travel, all those sorts of things. And with me at the time, personal situation was quite bad. Yeah. You stepped up for me, which I won't ever forget. Always, mate. That will always be remembered and appreciated. And, Don't worry about it. At the time, I was very, very close to shutting down the pod. And for the sort of the 6 months after that, I was very close as well. Mhmm. Just sort of burnt out. Yeah. You were. Very, very burnt out. Yeah. Extremely burnt out. And then since then, the pod has, you know, have left my Fiat work. The pod has grown massively. Good. Thank you to everyone. Yeah. Big thank you to everyone.
It matters a lot. Yeah. It's been big. And the same with you now. You've decided actually, no. I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna expand. Yes. Same thing in very different ways. I'd say in the same way where it's important. It's an it's an aggressive
[00:10:25] Unknown:
it's pressing forward on something, not being attacked and reacting to stuff. You say, right. I'll just get the bit I can control Yeah. Under my control. You backed off, which was the best decision you ever made. You'd neither relinquished the equity and the goodwill of what you were working hard for and people loved, but you couldn't keep putting in the fixed costs costs of the program you'd set up for yourself and maintain all of your other commitments. Yeah. And the decision to do that isn't one everybody can do. Everyone sees the ground rushing up, but some people don't know when to pull shoot. Right? And you did. And thank God because as you backed off whether it was because of or at the same time as the numbers started to creep and creep and creep and you kept long your option but you didn't stop out of the higher costs and that's all to your credit well done That was a really good decision. And at around the time you were doing that, I was just starting to build this stage of a project that but at the time we were at Amsterdam, it was just, like, right. Well, here's where we are. It's, like, half time, you know have a hamlet moment yeah what did we win and what did we lose and what's you know what now that I and then when you do thin out like international might have worked so it did a little bit traveled a little bit went to prosper and looked at their model a way of trying to accommodate anarchists in all the different ways anarchists can't be accommodated, and they had a much more top down they got top cover from the Honduran constitution that was then reneged, so they got robbed, I don't know what the full details are, but I scoped that place out just as an alternative. We looked at properties on there and stuff, and it was a serious consideration, but just by the time I was starting to work out the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The platform itself came into legal stuff that hasn't wrecked it. Yeah. But I was just put enough is it chill that I suppose is the right word? And for me, it's just like, well, I'd go over there and move and invest and do it if I had a solid footing, but you don't accommodate directly to Bitcoin as as it is. As in there's, like, all the coiners Yeah. To be diplomatic that come through and the idea is, well, it's open. They're free to fail here. It's like, well, alright. Well, I'm free to not be there for the failure. Yeah. It's a small community.
But that's balanced against the fact they just had this enormous achievement by being able to get constitutional cover for a free region in the first place, and it's an achievement, but it feel I don't know. Maybe I'm writing them off too soon and unfairly, but is it the hashcash of attempts at lower government structures? Yeah. And it did a lot, but it didn't completely hold in the water. Mhmm. And so all that said, there aren't any safe squares. I think I think we can still agree on that. There's no safe squares on the board. World's no no more certain, and in that time the scope for the project it just if you've got time to stop and think and no one's gonna die and it's a big decision take a week and distract yourself and go away and do some other stuff and just let just let it sit in your head and thoughts percolate and then right well, you know, if we if we do a little bit more closer to the UK in the long run and do something instead of top down Prospera, like, go and ask permission to have something that they can run later and just start to do fiat business perfectly fine inside those rails, but then just have them adjacent and pointing towards Bitcoin.
I say Bitcoin, but people in Bitcoin and their issues and the stuff that we just can't get by on alone in the beginning of this mesh structure that we've defined theoretically and had some mini circular events, proofs of concept, but then actually to capture a real vertical, a real supply chain, and then divert that towards people that are more trusted than average in the public and all the benefits that come with that for both parties. Mhmm. And so that's the first softening up. And then that opened the scope for a second yard, a secondary industry, like sawmilling to forestry. Primary industry makes logs. Secondary industry turns them into boards. Tertiary and quaternary industries build them and rent them, use them. And so to go down that strand, but do it and and market to Bitcoiners as better quality customers generally, then that's what started to do. Yeah. Yeah. So it came not in the UK a locks and over in the Isle of Man resident for a few more years probably, but you don't have to be here a lot. You just come and capture how things are and then go away, and you can contract lads to do stuff while you're away and if you trust them, which I do with my guys, they move mountains literally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. We walked out what felt like a mountain.
Yeah. Well, you're on this what you're on now, mate? You're on the Atkins?
[00:14:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Day
[00:14:47] Unknown:
9 of 1 meal a day, just meat. So when you that's generally when you feel you're worth on a transition diet. We took max of a we took max 200 meters vertically, didn't we, mate? Yeah. Just to make you feel better. Yeah. No. That was nice. A good host. Of that. But it is a good vantage. It's that slope, that south facing slope of this new plot there. You can just look at the working area, the amenity areas, and the potential for it. Well, it had it had my brain whirring because, you know, you've got you've got You'll meet both of you. You've got the site here Yeah. Where you've got all your kit, your machinery Yes. Everything else. Yeah. I don't know whether we're gonna say or not, but there's some very, very smart and trusted people who are in and around this site. Yes. You can. Just let's not name them, but let's suffice to say the meet up people are within reach of a meet up or in reach of a side gig Yeah. In something with they've got some equity Yeah. If it kicks, they get a bit of that. Yeah. But out of my boring fiat mining bits can cover costs on some more speculative projects.
So the idea is there's a fantastic scene. You should put it in the notes of a of a movie called the gambler. And if you haven't seen it, we should pause it and watch it, but it's a it's a simple scene. It's an old guy, young guy, he's a gambler, and it's something around fuck you. And I just think I know that's glib, but it is also just a fantastic way to think about how to take risk. Yeah. It's to say, right, will you always do it from a base of fuck you? Yeah. And here, along a timber and forestry vertical, I'll fuck you as firewood. Yeah. Because you throw a boomerang out, it's 2 days of labor and machinery, and you deliver it, and it's cash or wire in, and it's back to you. Now that's not lucrative. It's not it's not amazing. It's not like tethers business model, but it's just a pleb sized fuck you base, and then, like, say, that's Monday, Tuesday. Wednesday onwards could be a complex milling problem that you couldn't have otherwise afforded to do had you not had your week paid for in the first half of it. Yeah. And just that principle of fuck you simple stuff that we know. That's the bit we're sure won't go wrong, and we speculate long options, long shots. Shit that's a bit wonky, but maybe got a better shout than anybody else because we've got a combination of skills here now. You got a very good combination of skills. It's terrifying, ain't it? Yeah. People who I have massive respect for. Me too. Hugely competent. That's what's terrifying Yeah. Because now I've got to be the clean edge to people who are very serious.
And then I'm generalist. If you talk to a dev, I'm not gonna go to the weeds Yeah. On him on code any more than a forestry guy on his job, any more than a trainer. When we get trainers in, that's another part of the business. Not gonna be that good, like, c minus on each of them. Yeah. But each can't speak to the other. So it's like that Darren Brown magic trick where he plays all the grandmasters off each other, and he's not playing chess. He's just copying the 6 o'clock player to the 12 o'clock player and the 1 o'clock to the 5 o'clock, and he's just remembering the last 6 moves. Yeah. There's an element of what I'm trying to do to reconcile people who think they have different jobs. I can speak abstractly to them and sound a bit like a palm reader, but they kinda agree. And there's a higher level language that all of them, they're all doing the same job. The tech guy is an engineer. The engineer is just doing that in an analog way, and the trainer is doing it with people. Mhmm. Where's your snags? What are your bugs? What are your features? Yeah. And we bring them out, and it they're all they've all got different verbiage. We've got different words, different ways of saying stuff, different sayings, but they're all at the same thing. And they can work in concert because I've had a bit of an odd life, and I've put maybe 10% of my time chips into different careers.
I've left silos of friends and goodwill in strange places and strange strands. It's a generalist project that's bringing them threads of the rope back along projects that they all think they're the salt. They all think they're bringing the thing, but everybody's doing it at the same time. And the scope for projects in scale and breadth is massively boosted because your builder is as smart as a dev and your dev is as practical as a builder and they get to cancel each other out stupid ideas and support the ones that they can not veto and say actually that's actually I didn't think of that and the reconciliation is trust through the middle, which is me. Mhmm. Later on, they'll be able to finish other sentences. Now I'll hopefully get pinned off, like, made redundant. They go, I've got an independent business over here. Yeah. And that's brilliant then.
[00:18:59] Unknown:
Let's talk about what your plans are. Yeah. A little bit. So I've had to drive
[00:19:05] Unknown:
4, 5 hours out from your home. You hear that violin? No. Sorry. I didn't hear about it. Yeah. What's your fucking Poor Matt. Poor Max. Zaps for Max. I sent some zaps on that bit of the park. Poor Max. No one is joking. It is it is awful driving. Good effort for coming down. The the reason I say that is it's out the way.
[00:19:23] Unknown:
You were prick, didn't you know? Oh, I know. I've fallen in Malawear. We all know. We all know. That's one thing you can be sure about. It's a verifiable nurseless pest taker. Yeah. It's verifiable. You are a It's like Tourette. It is. I know people are like, though. It's out the way is my point. And It's a long way out. I totally got totally granted. Yeah. Long way out, which has its pros, which is it's quiet here. It's very, very beautiful scenery. Mhmm. There is a lot of land
[00:19:51] Unknown:
compared to where I am, where there's fuck all. Quantity has a quality of its own. If you're in the middle of a 16 acre field, it's nice feeling at the top of there. Oh, it's lovely. You can't it it drops your blood pressure Yeah. Straight away. Yeah. It's lovely. This place is a nice place to come and visit. So as to plans, I don't know if you're lying in that up, but, yes, massively
[00:20:12] Unknown:
open to visitors at different levels, different levels of activity. And so, you know, it's it's helped seeing it with my own eyes because I'd seen the plans. You sent me that and all that sort of stuff. But but as you drive into the site and I can see different areas, I'm starting to put together. Okay. This could work. That could work. There's massive scope for what could be done here. Yep. And what we've talked about in the mesh to Dell for a very long time, you do need physical locations for certain things. It's very difficult to get physical locations that would work for people who maybe wanna be a little bit more off grid, wanna try some things that are a little bit different.
Maybe they want some co working spaces or projects they wanna spin up in trusted environments around other very smart and ideologically aligned for the most part, a place, a hub for that. Maybe you can paint some of your ideas Mhmm. To listeners. I've obviously heard it. But Yeah. Well, it comes out of what's broken from Fiat. So if we took the previous conversation as prologue,
[00:21:16] Unknown:
as a moan Mhmm. For the trigger of what to do about it, if everything's shit, we take account of that. The root problem that this solves is that the Fiat land outside of residential is single use. It's basically spec. The farmers field has one job, one profit centers, the sheep, or whatever is on it. That's it. To be clever and sophisticated at the moment on Fiat pace is to put a caravan on the back of it and get a little cheeky income through, and that is uncorrelated income. It doesn't cost the sheep to rent to a visitor and vice versa. It's just to take that concept and just keep folding that steel back on itself, that value back on itself, and then you pulled in this morning to a site that has got very not just mixed use, but could be, like, a lot of different uses that do not compete fully for each other's resource on time or place. So we got different events running on the same site. We could have same events running in series across physical training and adventure training, nice high end lodges and cabins for people to stay short term, and then accompany that with courses. So if there's a 5 day course residential and the situation is normally you couldn't sell the missus on your favorite little course, but you could say, as a Bitcoin owner with good reputation and good standing, you've got a discounted rate to visit for the week. Yeah. Stay. We host and stay as guests.
And then to have that split the middle by saying, bring the missus, bring the kids. It's a beautiful place to come. It is. Yeah. Super safe. Yeah. We'll do everything on the safety side to take their hosting responsibilities more seriously than anybody can guess because what this could lead up to requires us to have an immaculate record from the start and on. But the idea being it could be multiuse, and it could be something that people run out of reasons to say no Yeah. To some level of activity, even if it's just to come like you mentioned. We're gonna set some sort of co working space up, come and visit some keyboard work, some clean work, just in some soundproof cubes inside of a factory that we're gonna do lines of Fiat and white label products with timber, but then also come and bring your design, bring your pleb mafia logo, and you can watch it go through the factory Yeah. And drink the del Salvadorian coffee we'll buy in from that supply chain, and that could be it. You know, just come and visit for a day, have a sandwich, have a toaster, have a coffee, meet someone, get their work done, order something, take it home or not. Residential stuff, 3, 4 day, 5 day stays with a course or not, meet a mate or not. Yeah. Maybe some event stuff, summertime, 1 week sort of come and go, stay, camp type things, and then we'll do training. We actually offer adventure training very, what would I say, novel. Extremely safe, extremely hard, and just what Bitcoin issue into a recent amount of money, questions to ask about their identity, what they can achieve now. They've been promoted to perhaps a level of incompetence, and you're starting to worry, like, I'm tough enough. Like I said, in the last one, I was good enough for the stack that we were talking about, but just like with the hardware wallet and the setup for your column, you've got to build yourself 10 x Mhmm. For that stack as well because it's not just enough to hold it. It's the judgment that's lacking in the 10 x next that will get you well over your skis and wrecked. And I just think I wanna front run that with some really well delivered, really, really high end courses that help Bitcoiners and in sympathy to particularly Bitcoiners.
What are you shit at? Well done. 100 k party, aren't we all very clever, but now that that's all over and we can't dine out on a price target, what now with the money you've made, presumably, can you deploy? And let me tell you, if you if you do, it's a lot harder than the initial investment. And you might say, you are stupid you. You shouldn't be putting that back into the fiat world, and then maybe that's true. But I am in fiat. I live in fiat. The Bitcoin is the tool, and it measures my economic value. But I am very much analog. If you squirrel yourself away and you don't give yourself any skills, you don't have any adventures, no skills, nothing. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a number that you've you've deferred everything,
[00:25:13] Unknown:
not just a lot, but everything. I just think you'd come out overall a weaker person with more money. Well, also, you know, how much of it is spendable? And how can you use that to improve your life and the people around you? And so when I started driving into this place, the wheels started turning. You have the co working space. You have a factory where you have CNC machines. Yes. You have potentially we could talk about Well, you're talking about broad broad fabrication of many different product and a safe space to bring either family or just get away yourself or with a clear head somewhere to work, somewhere to sleep, somewhere to manufacture, to meet other like minded people. And I think a lot of the the ideas that people have, it's okay if it's just code, and you can sit in a laptop in a cafe or wherever you are in the world, and you can produce something. But when you start talking about the things that we're doing with Ungovernable Misfits clothing Yeah. Or you wanna start making custom cases or this or that, whatever it is, a lot of people will then go, okay, I wanna do that. They're then gonna go and splash out a shit ton of money for a CNC machine if they wanna use that. Then they've gotta have a place to put it. Yeah. Then they've gotta have a place to put it. Yeah. You're right. You're right. You can't run it because you're gonna piss the missus off because it's so fucking loud. You know, it's in your garage.
You're in there. It's cold. It's not quite the right working space. I tried to do it with all the printing stuff. I was trying to do it in in a, conservatory, in the fucking sweltering heat, with 300 degree ovens running at the same time.
[00:26:43] Unknown:
Mate, we need to get a GoPro on you. Yeah. You're a channel 4 documentary. Yeah. It's like, what was that? The chimps,
[00:26:51] Unknown:
documentary, wasn't it? Chimps in the wild or whatever it is. It's like that. I think David Attenborough might be up for a comment on what you do. Yeah. You're not a mate. Really special needs. But my point is that, like, if you wanna have one foot in that physical world where you're producing art, where you're producing something that's one off and custom, especially if you wanna Especially if you want to make something that's really beautiful and well made, which is what ungovernable misfits are going for. It's fucking hard, and it's expensive to get all that equipment. Yeah. Well, so when we talk about a meshidal, we talk about shared resources. Yeah. Not in a communist way, but in in a sense of, like, there's a place I can come and rent all this kit. I'm only allowed to rent it because I'm trusted enough. Yep. And I can only afford to rent it to you because you're not. I'm not pulling out the Tomballer called the public. Yeah. I'm pulling out the Tomballer of maybe, Nosta,
[00:27:41] Unknown:
NPUB, LinkedIn, or UberScored people. Now this is what's clever. The narrative will say social credit score social credit score, but it isn't because there's no arbitrary setting of that. You can join that protocol or not. Yeah. But if you come as a blank one name, it's not that you're not trusted at all because it's there's no bad faith, but there's stuff that you can't show someone who could generate their identity at the gate. Yeah. So it's about showing what you need to show to people. It's what we're doing intuitively now by reputation and subjectively Yeah. And just making that part of it a little bit less fuzzy and a little bit more objective and then tying it into things like access passes or even just a booking ability Yeah. Using nostril rails for the social side of it and Bitcoin for any financial side to settle. That's a huge filter, and it's not a filter for filter sake. The cost of open yourself up to the people who are Bitcoiners who are sociopathic Yeah. Is astronomical and everyone listening is born a cost. If we get this bit right objectively, it's hard to fake who you are with things on the ground business done interactions had long term, Lindy behavior, then you can't put Bitcoin on your profile, put Bitcoin hat on, nuzzle into a group of people who are trusted in good faith, and then been naive Yeah. And you've mirrored them and just scooped out their whole life savings on a promise. Yeah. Because they are the general the the average person on Bitcoin Twitter is the general public. They're a Bitcoiner by name, but they are just in it. Someone who's invested in an asset,
[00:29:13] Unknown:
they don't necessarily have the same principles.
[00:29:16] Unknown:
If at all invested?
[00:29:17] Unknown:
Yeah. If at all invested. But the difference is, like, long term interaction with certain Bitcoin people Mhmm. I could say to you a 100%. I would be like, right, there's 5, 10 people in the UK where I'd go, I promise you, if you open your doors to them, they are solid. Yep. They'll come and use your machinery. If they break something, they'll tell you. Yep. If they See how cheap that is? Like, as a favor, like, hey, mate.
[00:29:41] Unknown:
Just saw your factory. Can borrow it on Saturday. Yeah. Insurance. Who are you? Exactly. Right. But you can have open policies. You can have contract to visitors. Yeah. But you cannot do it from public levels of assumed trust. Yeah. Because they're trying to sue you because they slipped on something. Just too variable, and it's too open to abuse. People come into Bitcoin. They go, I get this group. They're a bunch of mugs. They are so sold on the upside of what they've obviously got. But for me, I can't they they're like people who can't see the color blind, and they know the traffics to move from green to red or whatever because Mhmm. All the cars move. They're completely just scanning the room for pockets and what words can unlock the pocket to give me the thing so I can pay myself a salary and get on the next panel. And we've go in decades with no value. Yeah. And, I think this might be a better thing to I don't wanna sell to, like, the real good clever guys. I just want this region's catchment of blue collar who have to fucking deliver Yeah. To Fiat, missus Miggins, and Karen, and still carry over and still pay tax. I want all them. And you can keep all the all the other ones Yeah. Because they don't seem to be of any use. Yeah. You want people who are producing real value. Or they're very little, just not robbing. Yeah. Yeah. So you're just like covering yourself in glue and running through a meetup and ruining people's lives with these shit sponsors. Yeah. Don't get me going. Yeah. But that's the things that we covered on the last one. We did. Sorry. Shit sponsors, complete cunts, a lot of fakes. Yeah. A lot of people who are more fiat minded than most fiat people you can imagine, but they wear a bitcoin hat. That's it. Fucking lazy. Like, we were we were right, but the thing is what I'm, like, starting to get to being a bit older is at that point we're right, but you've not fucking won anything. Yeah. You've actually made your identity a derivative of the person you hate because you haven't got fucking anything to compare it to. You just know it's wrong, and you're just selling moral Tupperware to your mates. Mhmm. You've got put red meat on the table because the best criticism is an iteration of the different things in your model or stack than is what you dislike in others. Yeah. Yeah. And then better than that, you've proven your argument out in reality, praxis, and you've also instantly got people who will move from that shit platform that now they've got no other option, and you just have to moan at them and they still go on to it. They've got a second one. It's better. It makes its own argument. So it's kind of some of this is, like, stop moaning, start building. I mean, that's 2 people moaning who are both then not and built, and now you're up and off the ground and in a different sort of line of expertise, if you wanna call it.
I think it's just eating pain. So I I I think that's I don't I don't feel very good at anything. I honestly don't. Honestly,
[00:32:22] Unknown:
feel like I'm winging it to everybody. Just winging it. No. No. I think you've got a good vision of what you wanna do here and you're grafting.
[00:32:29] Unknown:
It's wacky. It's just so wacky, and it's so hard to keep lads motivated who just wanna work on a wage. And you think, if I just pay your time, you shouldn't it shouldn't matter what you what I want you to do up to a point. Yeah. But it's not really true in real life. They need to have at least an understanding that you've got something you're gonna tie this off to later even if it doesn't make sense in the medium term. That was hard. Also I I can imagine. And just me not being particularly credible. Just a bit bit too relaxed. Yeah. Well, I think I think over time, that becomes easier and easier
[00:33:00] Unknown:
in the sense that when you get to a stage where these gates can open. So I paint a picture in however many months or whatever it is. Milestones like that, like, Unimogs turning up. Yeah. Like, if you battlefield indicator that the guy might be eccentric, but also on something is a Unimog.
[00:33:17] Unknown:
Yeah. And then a second one. Yeah. And then a yard. And then a second woodland. And then all the yellow shit everybody sees at the side of the road that you're on farmyard, but twice as much of all that yellow stuff Yeah. Yeah. Jcb. So that's a good combat indicator that he's not bluffing, but we're just about to connect the first profitable line of a project that's been in the making since before we met. And, again, the phase of this that launched off is our moaning and analyzing the problem. This is the response now, what will come from today and what you've seen and then whatever else leaks out onto the Internet. Yeah. Well Gotta be quiet.
[00:33:54] Unknown:
I I can see a I can see a scenario where sort of 6 months to a year from now, you have some events. Mhmm. You have some co working space. You have the ability for people who are trusted to sign in, sign out. You have a hub for a British mesh to Dell part of a British mesh to Dell. Bigger than Britain. But the yeah. Eventually, I'm just saying No. No. Can't say too much, but other country. Okay. I know what you're thinking. So yeah. There's other stuff boiling. I promise you listeners. There's there's there's good exciting stuff.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
But just a place for people to come and Well, we don't have to meet in Bitcoin Amsterdam now, do we? And pay a £500 fucking ticket to meet our friends now, do we? No. Because within you 4 hours as an effort, I appreciate that. Let's say someone in Scotland at 6 hour effort that shit, but a few log cabins and a few right of the people. Like, we all we don't have to do is go on fountain and just say who's nice. Right? Mhmm. Right now, that's real value for value because now like, anybody that's associated in a way that they can't backwards reverse on your show, who's gone the hard yards with you, in whatever way that means to you Yeah. Well, all good. Everybody folds in into the bigger net. The mesh, will build it out. It won't just be a a white paper. It will be a delivered instance of this, and it'll be extensible to others of my own and extensible to people who make their own, like relays.
And it's not complicated. Fiat profit margins have been crushed so much that a single use case puts you underwater on your job, and you're blood dry, and then you just either top yourself, which is the biggest killer of men in the UK at the moment. Is it? In our age group, it absolutely is. And in Wales, it's big, and in forestry, it's big. Well, that's right. So alright. So bad as that is bad as that is, there's a reason. Yeah. It's because everyone's on a starvation trajectory. They've been over defined in their roles in Fiat, and then they're being bled along those roles to the point they're meaningless. And then the answer, the important part isn't that. It's to say, right, what do you wanna do about it? Yeah. You just have a cry wank over this until we're 80 and get you get your lunch robbed, and that's it, and then be derivative of other people, or the response is to be the opposite, and we say, right. Problem is single use everythings.
Mhmm. We will run 15 activities off here that don't just run on profit, but bleed and nourish into all of the other side things we care about. All our spare time, all of our spare resources don't leak back out into nonsense. They fall back and help other people. Yeah. And if you can do that, we've got this we've got the scoreboard with Nosta to keep a track of that without undermining your identity and making you visible. You just have a little coin or a card or a badge or it, and you can just come through, and it's not because we're exclusive. It's because you've done stuff that can't be faked. It's the whole thing about our money being valuable. How do I know you are? Yeah. It takes ages. I know you are. It's not no. You can't do that with everybody. If you're gonna try and hit 200, 500 people Mhmm. A month visiting,
[00:36:55] Unknown:
you can't do that type of due diligence No. No. Anecdotally on everybody. You can. You gotta get that bit right. You can do it to some extent in terms of there's proof of work in people you you know
[00:37:07] Unknown:
very closely and well, and then there's, like, the group around them. So, like Archery board stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Like You got your bull's eye guys, lie in the road, kids their kids get a kidney. Yeah. The first one. No one's having the second one. But that those, like, communist people. Yeah. In that sense of familiarity, like, you are communist. And then socialist guys, definitely do a favor. Definitely do some mates, right, definitely do something, but not, alright, you know, should be around a bit longer or whatever be be more. And then people on the outside, like, oh, mates have mates. Like, oh, alright. I definitely say hello, but beyond that or Yeah. That someone will vouch for you. But that vouching is like photocopying reputation.
You lose fidelity at each hand off Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And communication, and the person is, they might be alright when they can afford to be and real nasty when they can't afford to. Yeah. Yeah. And they might have a great reputation with the mate because they might have something in with them Yeah. But they might get handed off to you and dunk you. Yeah. And that's costly. Costs everybody. It's cost us. We like, get bad business models, build and beg, no product market fit, no customers. That was capital that went into 5, 10 salaries of every project that's failed and back into fiat in salary taxed nonsense.
I can't it won't do. No. We've got to have better products. Quality's got it's it's one of them. It's like, oh, I can't add we can't make all this add up. Then the paradoxical answer when things are that hard is to just try harder. You do more, not just a little bit more. You relook at this until you can make a plan that you can see pay more than it costs to do. And the way I found to do it is if I can have a cost base that pays out of one role, but serves 10 lines of products,
[00:38:50] Unknown:
then we're alright. Yeah. So I mean, a big one for you is obviously timber
[00:38:55] Unknown:
Mhmm. Which then can come in here as not just dollars per ton or pounds per ton. It becomes something I'd lose money on that, by the way. Would you? If I put a hat on, say, I'm doing UK Forestry Yeah. I lose every tonne of logs at round. If I sold round logs to the round log buyer Yeah. I'm out. Okay. Peace. That that meme, the disappearing guy. Mill it, and you make your losses back and double your margin so you get a normal margin business out of a sawmill at the at what I've tested on the ground. Yeah. Real, by the way. Not like what I think. We did a year of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's when you came, 2020. Everything else after that are similar multiples up, and some of the machinery and some of the men are fixed cost, obviously, but the lads now got a fantastic job. If they're really good at sawing, they can go forestry or they can go up to construction or across to Devon. And if there's something that they've got, like, fear of heights, fear of something that's holding them back so we've got a lad who comes on. He's great. He's scared of heights. He's a really good sawman on the ground. Won't do the rope work, which is the natural progression in that thing. Yeah. Scared of heights. So we get a training guy in. He loves me because we've got loads of land that he doesn't need to use any time of the year but a week. Yeah. And it's totally private.
So he might deliver a little remedial trust type thing wearing away at a phobia for a guy that unhitches him. Right. Now we're talking. And it's not employees there are none. It's contractors who keep coming back whenever they want. Don't have anything with them. Just say, on the days you can't get some good paying work, you can come down at short notice, and there's always a low, urgent, high importance job to do. Yeah. So I can put myself at maximum flexibility because all these projects, it doesn't matter for me if they get over the line by a time. They're not on debt. I just build them, charge them like batteries, keep going, and we're just at a point where we've got about 8 jugs, 3 quarters away full. Mhmm. And now I've got another, like, next push to do, and I can just connect 1 or 2 of them up to full and making money. Yeah. And it's boring. The boring bit's the money. The boring bit's the money, but the boring bit unlocks all these other Correct. Things. I call them denied areas. I think they're denied areas. They're all blockers.
You know, money is not motivator, and lots of it won't get you anything amazing. But it's like oxygen. Like, don't matter how much. Like, you've got enough. It's enough. Yeah. If you haven't, you're deficient. You're in trouble. Same with money. Yeah. Your boring parts of the business
[00:41:14] Unknown:
mean that you're not indebted
[00:41:17] Unknown:
and on time pressure and everything else pressure. I can't be. Yeah. You've seen even in the course of today. What have we had today? So we started off the dog had a drama on the lake. Yeah. So I went in clothed. We don't have hot water here. Yeah. So if you if you don't know how to do that and get back out and feel comfortable about it, our day's over then. Yeah. But it wasn't. We came back. We had a fix on a puncture for a blinking forklift that was blocking 3 lads. Then that was fixed. The guy drove away. What happened? Well, the one broke. Gearbox. And the gearbox broke. Yeah. Right. But the game didn't end because we've got 5 other jobs. Once that primary job, we've got an alternate and a contingency and emergency job for them lads. Yeah. I don't mind because I can still turn around and say, alright, lads. Don't know what the plan is tomorrow, but you can come and then we'll be busy. We would get that fixed and we're off and running on lift. Yeah. But if we can't lift, we'll go off and maybe push the CNC project along. Yeah. Go out and do a survey. There's loads and loads and loads. So you never lose your energy. And it's something that I can see building over many years because you've a, you've got a lot of land. I've Do you think I I I've got the minimum amount for the do you think it's the minimum amount for to bear this concept out? Would you think that you could do it on a lot less? I mean, it's a win win answer for me because other people listen. I think it's the perfect amount what you've got for what you've told me your plans. Yeah. Okay. And the and Good. What I like about it is, for someone who's not physically seen this, it's not just like you come in and there's like a big construction area next to a field or something like that. What I really like about it is there's little pockets and sections
[00:42:47] Unknown:
that are tucked away. It should be like like rooms. Yeah. Yeah. I do. So there's like certain bits where I was like, I can imagine a couple of log cabins here and a couple of people sitting by a fire having a conversation. And then I can also imagine here. So this this could be a perfect workspace. Yeah. And then I imagine here. Okay. This could be some There's these little pockets. Then there's 2 beautiful lakes. Yeah.
[00:43:08] Unknown:
Which Which are lovely. It's amazing. They're lovely to have a, like, near death experience in. Yeah. Yeah. To go to a for a Christmas
[00:43:14] Unknown:
classic Emmerdale Christmas special. That was worth the drive. Just that. Just seeing you go in. I I was worried about the dog, not you. Oh, my little lad. He's gone for sleep on the bed. Yeah. He's had a busy day. He has. Little whopper. But, yes, it's it's something about those little pockets, which makes me think it won't feel crowded or on top of each other like I say, a conference will do. If there's a course going on or people are working on doing some clothing or doing something Mhmm. That I feel I could come here. And if if I want just an evening to record a podcast away from everyone, Or if I wanna go and paint for the evening and I wanna set up a studio, that I could do that and I could be my own person away from everyone, not on top of them. And that's, I think, really important for people who are trying to be creative.
[00:44:02] Unknown:
How much should that cost? You go out and pay that on the high street watch list. There is no there is no, you can't buy it because Exactly. You you literally you can't buy. You can't buy it. You can't buy it. Yeah. Like, $300 bitcoin. Yeah. You know what I mean? And when you realize that, you're like, oh, so I care about your output, actually. Yeah. Get it's funny how this is, like, sympathetic because listening to a pod when we're doing this is better than listening to your own thoughts. So you just crack a pod on. Now I've got a stake in the quality and you're at your upside. Yeah. And you've got costs and you've got stuff that you can't to cater to completely at your comfort would be too expensive. Yeah. And then the weak, the bitch, blames the audience, Not generous enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They don't get it. You don't know. You try sorting a pod out. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. You go back to your problem. You wanted the pod, not them. Yeah. They're listening. I'm listening. Yeah. And now, particularly with your listeners, it's just that sense that even though it is growing in numbers as as they typically do, the depth of support, the resonance with people that's spent years developing ideas that we've been constantly proven right, constantly borne out or at least not wrong on average as much. Yeah. Yeah. I say that. Sure. Nice safe one. And here we are. Everybody's peddled, and we've all sort of got a bit of something. It's spicing up what one person's job is with another person's job and what they don't know about the other one and doing it in combination and then doing it in generalist projects.
[00:45:32] Unknown:
Yeah. And having the space having the space to do it with a clear head to be creative, you need to have a space to go to. Not a fucking WeWork Mhmm. In the city. No. It's not here. No. You know, being here so, for example, somehow my job is doing these podcasts. I don't even know how to set up 2 mics on my fucking so so because we're here Yep. Even in the early days, there's someone who's
[00:45:56] Unknown:
very, very competent Yep. On the moment. But, yeah, who can who can help? Can we say can we say what it is? I'll do an impression. Yeah. Go on. Yeah. I mean, we we, you know, we we could do it. It'd be very hard. We could do And there's, like, 5 minutes late, yeah. I think it's done. Finished it. Yeah. Yeah. It cured cancer. Yeah. It was pretty hard, but, it turns out, wasn't it? Just cured cancer. Yeah. Yeah. Just cured cancer. Yeah. It's Saturday afternoon, but I sort of took it into Sunday morning, but, yeah, it's pretty it's cool. Yeah. It's done. Pretty cool. It is done. I'll do a demo in a minute. Give myself a country. It's like that. It's like that's sort of some understated to the so Britishly understated that it's just brilliant.
Hilarious. Comes around the corner and just does great stuff, but you are right. We've got a Bitcoin on-site, misterblackcoffee Yeah. And he's knocking the CNC mill together. Yeah. And, he's not Just
[00:46:47] Unknown:
for anyone listening, he's knocking the CNC mill together. It's not like these little ones that you're gonna do a pin badge in your Garage. It's the size of my house. And it makes houses.
[00:46:58] Unknown:
Yeah. It like, so here's another one. So you've got me in general, Moaney and Reply Guy, you can't stop at the crywank stage. You've got to fight through it. Yeah. And the crywank what what happened was the CNC mill was never in the stars, and then we brought a guy on. He's a really good sawmill and really good forestry guy and was pretty kind of over performing, and he's like, right. Write your own ticket now you have whatever you want so right I want to be a timber framer that's great because we do saw milling so we can do construction now yeah you get skilled up supply is cheap I trust you to a degree go on a timber framing course and then as a few bad times, it gets a license pulled. Yeah. And I go, ah, shit. So now I still wanna do timber framing, but the lads, it's it's not their fault, anybody's particular fault, but you just can't if you stop there, you're like, oh, every time I try and trust somebody Yeah. They let me down, And then you're spiteful and bitter and Yeah. Everybody's and you haven't got anything in your back. You've tried this first half, but you haven't won. So you've done enough to be right, but you've not done enough to win. Yeah. And so the trick is then with the CNC is to say, right, we really want the win. You've got to answer the problem for what it is. And if the problem is you've put too much trust in the human element of it, get more metal. Yeah. And then and then at that point, we ordered it. And by the time that guy had completely resigned, I, like, refused to do the original work to do, the mill's running.
And Nim is the guy to do that technical bit where the lads finish off the what would you call it? The big nuts and bolts and concrete drilling and stuff like that. We bring it up to a base, and then it's funny where those lights are totally happy and confident Yeah. And the aluminum bits, the bits that are very fine and Yeah. They're like, oh, they sort of treat it like the edge of their earth. Yeah. Yeah. We don't go past there. It's like the whole it's like start Lord of the Rings. Like, I've never been this far from home, but then he's is on the other end of the baton, and he's like, oh, I didn't know how the hell you got it up to that because I'd have paid for you not to have been able to do that. But wow. Shit. Fuck. If it's in. Yeah. And I'm I've got arrested away, and he's out doing his professor Weeto bit on it in the cold while we're just yakking. We're we're just talking shit having nice coffees. He's out in the cold. Yeah. Best place for him. Best place for him. Yeah. Treat him mean, keep him keen. That's it. No. But he kidding. He's he's but that's it's great. Like, how could I ever attempted somebody of that caliber Yeah. In terms of, like, to go through indeed.com and find him. You don't find him. You do not. It's the same principle with the land and the activities and the training and the products. It's like give to get. Yeah. And it's enforced in protocol from Nostra and Bitcoin. Let's just see if that works. That is another massive
[00:49:29] Unknown:
win if you are here. Not only is it a beautiful place and it has the machinery and blah blah blah. It's just the fact that you are surrounded by people who are very competent. So you might get to a project. You're saying, okay. I'm I'm creating this piece of art, or I'm doing this bit of design work. I'm used to working with Photoshop. I'm used to working with CAD, but I now wanna do this extra thing. I don't know how the fuck to use it. It's just pissing me off. You turn around and go, coffee Yeah. Or whoever else. There's other people here as well, which we won't speak about.
[00:49:57] Unknown:
And not just techie guys. It could just be a practical with like a just a handy guy or a machine operator. Yeah. You're like, I can't grow the scope of the product and the level of interest I've got because I have a digger. I couldn't get in and drive it myself. Yeah. You're like, right. So what would be a bit of digger time for a bit of build a bit of an app for me or something. Corn or word or It is a bit of that bar thing, and it's not to get over excited too much about it. It's just to say at the simplest bottom 20% of the concept, it works great. Yeah. Well, you just having competent people around. I'm not I'm very very blessed, especially with having govlon misfits
[00:50:28] Unknown:
is that I have problems all the time because I'm fucking midwitt.
[00:50:31] Unknown:
Correct. But I also, at the click of a button, I have really smart people who I've built trust with, who I try and look after, I hope. And they always look after me. Yeah. So it means It's self interest. It's just self interest. Yeah. I I want your outcome, and it doesn't come at the expense of mine. So I'm not competing with you, and I'm along your upside. So you shine sunlight on the bit you're good at, you're competitive at. The problem is the handoff, the spread, the energy transfer doing that applied in the last 5 years on Bitcoin, last 5000 years in humans. It's a shit show. Scoreboard's knackered. The money got fixed. Great. Then the naivety of acting in that while sociopaths are operative. Great money. The picture's still a mess. Still can't track how people behave. They can pop up, rob you, piss off Yeah. With loads of excuses, and it's just a cost at the moment of doing our business, but the tech's catching up and people's concepts and things are catching up. If they're not, they can add to whatever they've been working on their own to a joint effort later Yeah. Through this one or someone else's fork of it or brilliant. Yeah. No. I think it's really cool. But that's the answer is if you don't like the parties you're being invited to, you've got to set your own up or at least make an effort to do something as an alternative because if you're not, you're talking through your hat. Yeah. You might be right. It doesn't mean you're wrong either, but it's not enough. It's not enough to convince people not to go make a mistake.
You've got to be the alternative where they they can't they're tempted away from the other shit stuff, and we're not good enough. We're not attractive enough to be accounted to some of the bad behavior at the moment, but it's not far off. And it's all working well as it is. Like, this is still net positive. We still got robbed, but we still come out with more. It's good, but this bit is a bit like, let's tighten up the bit that gristles everybody. Mhmm. The rip offs, the chat, the preannouncements, then you know what it is. It's fighting, the schisms, the silly arguments.
Because everyone's bored waiting for the thing that they the number, the price. Woah. Doesn't matter. Go and get wet. I also think I'm getting a leak. A lot of the people who have the arguments
[00:52:32] Unknown:
and create the noise and do the engagement farming, I actually think a lot of them just have fuck all to offer. Well, that's what they offer. Like, go in, take 2 things, make a contradiction,
[00:52:43] Unknown:
get 2 sides to convictly argue with each other in your thread, and then go, let's take this onto my podcast, and we'll resolve it on there. It's the Piers Morgan. Yeah. Yeah. Shuffle shuffle, take the energy, take the activity, and just net it into your paid platform, stuff the numbers. Yeah. It's all negative. Go to a conference, emcee it, provide no fucking value. Introduce the introduce a royal as the prince of suburbia. I don't know. I'd pick it on people, I suppose, is exactly the opposite of my point. No. No. But say It's that should be diluted Yes. By noise of better people being bigger and better in the space, not shrinking Yeah. Moaning, having nothing to show as alternative, and then they become bigger in the void. Yeah. I won't do it. So I'm not big, like, into not big at all really, but just at least in this little sphere, I could apply a concept and show it. It makes a lot of sense. And I completely
[00:53:35] Unknown:
can imagine in whether it's a year ish or year and a half from now, people coming into here, driving into here, saying, I've booked I've booked a 3 day or a 4 day stop. I'm meeting this person, this person, this person because we wanna discuss this new project, whether it's tech related or it's in the physical world, they're trying to manufacture a product. I can imagine that you have an area that people can purchase either hardware or clothing
[00:54:02] Unknown:
or Anything. Anything. This is the supermarket. This is the Pleb supermarket. Tough jumpers, stuff you need, you know, whatever it is here. And then the other one is if you are local and you're actively putting stuff in, you're helping, could I have a half assembled car in one of the sheds? Yeah. Like, 3 or 4 of you doing that, and, yeah, you might all be devs as well. Yeah. So, you know, when your edge wrecked, which it gets, go and span or something or go and go out on the quad. And I can be that generous because the cost isn't as big as if it was to be offered on Fiat rails completely. Yeah. Yeah. It's like having your brother do it. Mhmm. But the distance in brother is in a family is carried to a friend with tech. Yeah. It's the score. It's the objectivity. I can be more trustworthy further out. I can cast my line out a bit further and not feel like that it's the equivalent amount of risk. Build some cool shit. We're getting a skate park in here. Sorry for the non sequitur. Skate park. Well, that's quite a bit robot dog. Yeah. There's a robot dog. Both are quite good examples of a point that I wanna capture is that if you have a generalist project, you'd be surprised what things get cheap in scope. So the skate park thing to to make that is I don't know what it be maybe 100 of 1,000 of investment if you were to open up and hold out as a skatepark. Yeah. But if you've got if you've got a massive hangar shed we're in and all the machinery is on the ground floor, then you just put transition ramps in between them all and the top tower, and it is a skate park, and it's easy because we can make out a timber, and the CNC prints it. Yeah. It I mean, that's for the wrong maybe the diminishing word, but it basically, if you put logs in the bottom of your Brother printer Yeah. Round logs, it will come out like a house. So if it's a house, you can and that that thing's 20 dot 5 foot long or something. Yeah. So we could take a round log and machine it on there in a vertical post with loads like Bitcoin totemic stuff on it and that we can machine a hanger in the top of it and make framing using CAD. So you can't do that unless you'd have set out with a broad ability to fab. Yeah. And where it ends up crystallizing into projects is really just where the chips fall on the ground. Yeah. It's the broad ability to create and to be able to defer your time, but then speed up. Mhmm. It's the ubiquity of being able to put resources, pull them back, and what's lost in the pullback is not all lost because you're not on debt, and you're not trying to only do one thing. Yeah. So all the failed projects that we don't talk about ever, me included, they're all cut all the bones of them are all lying around ready to be put back together into the next effort. So it's quite efficient in that sense.
[00:56:24] Unknown:
Let's see. Let's let's just see where it it can get to. I feel like we're talking in future tense again. We're talking But we have traveled some distance, I think. Yeah. Well, the reason the the reason I'm comfortable talking in that future tense is since I've known you when you talk about doing something, you do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be sat here with you. I wouldn't make the I wouldn't invite you if I've done it. Yeah. I feel like I've not done my homework. So I know that when you're talking about something seriously, you'll get it done. I also am very, very confident in the people who are around you. The location is very, very good. And there's also a need for this. You know, it's a need that I feel myself. I'm like, oh, I'd like somewhere to paint, but I need to be away from the noise of the world. I need to be able to do that. I wanna be able to build. I've got lots of ideas that I'm like, oh, well, I don't have a proper workshop. So to be able to do that as a All these blockers? Yeah. And it's not wrong, and you're right to conclude that you can't solve that problem by buying a workshop outright for that one use case. Yeah. It's not worth it. But I have one one hundredth of a workshop
[00:57:18] Unknown:
just for you. That's it. Yeah. And I like you one one hundredth enough to give it to you. Right? Yeah. And I know it's, like, it's funny. Like, it might be a little bit more than one one hundredth, mate, but the point is, if it's cheap, you can be generous with what you've got a lot of. Right? And if you've got something that is capital fixed asset, as long as you program that properly and you can do it with people that you can trust more than average public, it works. It does work. It really works. And that makes me excited because
[00:57:44] Unknown:
you can be very creative. It's all well and good, like, making money and having a load of early people who are like, oh, okay. I have much more time now. I've invested some money into Bitcoin. I now have more Bitcoin than other people will do in the future.
[00:57:58] Unknown:
Okay. Well, what are you gonna do with it? That's it. Like, I don't think a lot of people, me included, really, when first whatever your rabbit hole thing was. It wasn't really about who I was and what I was trying to solve for. It was that money was a problem. Felt like I was sort of walking along the road. I don't remember when I started on it, but money was fucked. Yeah. And I didn't know why that was a particular problem to me because if it what was it holding me back from? Something. But it doesn't matter if you're being held back. When the door opens because money becomes available, then it's really fucking important to know. What are you gonna What are you gonna do? Yeah. And who are you gonna help? Your judgment is your last stacks value, and you have not got it on the scale that this price appreciation is getting people to until you start to make contact with another, an unreliable person Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A loony relative who you can't cut out your life, but you have got to adapt to. These it you break ceilings, and you are in a whole new you're in the next level. It's one of those things to be careful what you wish for. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. But it's a good problem. It gives us access, and it we've got to break some of these false rules in Bitcoin, realizing Bitcoin value into the Fiat world. It's not a failure or Depends how you do it. Well, it does absolutely depend on you do it, but If if you go out if you liquidate all your Bitcoin Absolutely. If you go and buy a fucking Lambo Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, then you're a fucking retard. Well, it's just it's the it's the incontinence of that. Yeah. It's you couldn't give in. You gave into temptation. I'm not giving into temptation here. I feel like I'm consolidating an opportunity of money by accepting that we aren't, like, we said last two titles of we can't eat sats and you can't live in a Bitcoin.
And while that is glib, it is also true. Yeah. And if we don't augment any gains made in Bitcoin and economics Yeah. In back into the real world, you relinquishing it, and we can't go where the Bitcoin goes. You're painting yourself into smaller and smaller corners. Mhmm. And so my thesis in my excuse for coming back in and engaging is it's fucking miserable So just have a big savings account and no real purpose in life if your purpose is to stay out of the way of bullies and get richer
[01:00:01] Unknown:
There's worse fates, but it's not fun. Boring. Yeah. It's boring, and you don't even know why you're doing it. Well, you don't have a purpose, which is why when I imagine what could be done here, you know, someone has their savings. They love cars more than anything else. They fucking they have this idea of, I want to build this retro mod Mhmm. Vehicle, and I want to do it this way. I want it to look like this. But I want to actually have technology in it that's not readily available on the market. But I've got fucking loads of money. Yeah. But I want to do it. Yeah. This is a place or could be a place where people can say, can I just rent this area? Mhmm. I might work on it over the next 5 years. But where I can come and do these things, and where there's smart people around and there's the technology around that I can build that, whether it's a car or whether it's something completely fucking wacky I
[01:00:48] Unknown:
think it will be something like that. Yeah. You know, like, these, camper cars, like, the big ones, the Overlanders. Yeah. This is the type of stuff that the unit cost of producing them that you're gonna get a quote from a Fiat Yeah. Top in Europe. 3 quarters of a 1,000,000 quid, half a 1,000,000 quid, whatever it is. You can cobble it together. It's no worse quality for cooperating with people that you kinda mates with. And, yeah, they get It's more fun as well. If everything's covered in the site that you're working from on Tuesday, and you work there Thursday, Friday for 5 years, the cost is arguably 0 in terms of the investment. There might be an opportunity cost that you could have backed a better space in the yard. Yeah. But fucking hell. What a good problem to have. And what interesting content there could be as well is the other thing I'm thinking is like Like hackathons. Like, purely code, purely at Yeah. Conferences.
But here, fabrication, like, concepts. Fabrication
[01:01:35] Unknown:
workshops. But you can have a start to finish project. You know, I think there is enough content, which is the money's fucked, Bitcoin's gray. Yeah. Here's the most important things in a money. Yeah. You know, that has been done to fucking death. And, like, there's good stuff out there. We don't need to revisit it.
[01:01:54] Unknown:
Nothing left interesting in Bitcoin, like new discoveries. It's like we graduated that bit. There's not like the same old narratives come bubbling up from Twitter, and they're all it's the same shit. Take them apart. It's snacking.
[01:02:05] Unknown:
It's boring. Whereas, if someone was making some content here, I've made this vehicle that has got this. I've made this robot. I've CMC'd this thing. I've made this r. You know, all this different stuff. I'll be excited to cover that. Yeah. The stuff that we cover now, you know, I have the show with John. I do the odd show with you or, like, other people, but not that much. I've got the one with q and a on the technical side. You know, that's all stuff that I'm interested in. But the general Bitcoin content is fucking boring.
Whereas Right. I could come here and and say, hey, coffee. What you working on there? I'm like, I'm just, you know, a cure encounter in that. Yeah. I'm just I'm just building a plane. Yeah.
[01:02:41] Unknown:
Building a plane building a plane, but But he will do it. He's a rum lad, and he will do stuff like that. He will just come around the corner and and do and ship something. I just think he's one of them that but at that point that he gets the first win up until now being frustrated with being able to carry that from MVP product, maybe someone picks up and says thanks to, like, right, that is now integrated into a business that generates value back as a facility for Bitcoiners to do the same again. Yeah. Yeah. And it is the self reinforcing loop of actual value going along enough of a chain in enough of a breadth that it's got substance and it's got gravitas. Yeah. What could be good is instead of people going on to the shit podcasts and into the shit big catchment areas for nonsense and scams, they might might just be pulled closer to this as an initial contact point than somewhere less scrupulous.
And if that's all I get out of it, it will earn me more than a decade of bitching because it'll be 3, 4, 5 faces who aren't wrecked, and it will be carried along with profitable businesses. Hopefully. So good. That's how you do it. I think I feel so much better about that than just sitting and watching a shit show. Oh. A shit show and a shit show. Build some cool shit that you can talk about that's interesting. It's fucking hard as well. Like, if you come and did it, you're gonna wreck your head for days, and then at the end of it, you'll have a win, and it'll come out with such brilliant feel. I'd love to be able to and I will host that here, and we'll be doing I'm doing it already. We've got our own projects internally, and then they'll just open up and open up. So, yeah, it's gonna be a good year, I think. I think so. A little bit less traveling, not got much more time here, and probably just be staying pretty close to home. Yeah.
Because it's all sort of running along, and now it'll I'm hoping hoping it would be a bit more visible. I really don't like talking this at this level of depth without any substance on the Internet yet, but it's coming. Max can confirm. I can confirm. It's it's all here, isn't it? It's all here. We've ordered the the paper cups and the what are them things that hang on the back of the bunting? And yeah. Yeah. And we've ordered the paper plates. Yeah. It's all here, ain't it, Max? Yeah. That's it. So the party is on. All done. Can confirm. Oh, shout out to mister dice rolls. Perfect example. Yeah. Alright, mate. I've got a mate. He's he lives nearby. He's gonna come along for the day. Okay. Mister dice rolls turns up. He's a top club. Yeah. Practical hand guy has to do a job to someone else to their satisfaction for money after and asked to have to do that for life. And now the relief coming on here is like, oh, right. Here we go. I've got a surface with all the Bitcoin is that's a big enough and relevant enough to what I do out there. I'll keep coming back, and he's gonna keep coming and chipping in. Yeah. I think he'll whatever he gives, he'll get, you know it. Yeah. And just any, like, one one person coming here and helping one bit of this at this point is just huge. Well, that's the thing. Like we said, you don't wanna bitch and moan too much because it doesn't get you anywhere. But within the groups of just talkers and bullshitters,
[01:05:34] Unknown:
there are some really fucking amazing people. Yeah. And they're getting diluted by nonsense. And so you you walk them out and you say, come on. Come here. Let's build some cool shit. Yeah. Let's show the world what can be done. Yes. It drowns out the squawking Yeah. Fucking nonsense. Yes. That's everywhere else. In a raft of choices of screaming
[01:05:54] Unknown:
hungry mouths. Any energy that goes on that node, however, we prove that does bounce back. It's provable, and all these others, you put money in, it's like a wishing well. The last time you see your money as it drops down the hole, it's gone with a load of noise and nonsense and narratives coming back out, and I wanted this one to be like that. Yeah. We always return our serve. Yeah. You come in and you put energy in because it's on analog, hard to fake business lines like tables and logs and big stuff. You can't fake it. If you come and help move the ball along and you get your ticket stamped, that's it. Now what you wanna do? Well, I'm a joiner. I'm a plasterer, but I wanna get into general building. Alright. Well, I've got a piece of land. It's 20 mile away, but it's a hill. That's alright. Digger, drive in, drive out 2 days flatland.
That unlock you? That make your life better? Yeah. Right. How many days does that do you can come back now? Now you don't have to worry about a fucking mortgage. Yeah. Not like not worry whether you can rent or buy whether just in what you do can get you built out and done. How independent can I make someone who just comes in is consistent here? It's just like a staring contest. Anybody who comes and does that, I will look them back in the eye and give it all back because this can go for ages. If the longer you can do that, the better. Yeah. And it we just lads just need so little encouragement.
The ones that really wanna get on when you see what they labor under and what a big enough project can relieve them off. It's just it's you just wake up and all you think about is connecting people who use how are you doing? Knackered. Struggling. Like, why? Why? What's the matter? That's this. It's that. It's food. Sleep. It's whatever it is. It's like shit, man. Like, if I just took that as a cost to my program, you're not being on it for that, can I just take it off yet? If we fix that, are you are you fit to go? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I just if you get me covered on this, I I can be for the rest of the week. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Too right. Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's just these are last most recent. It's not like we've got, like, 20 people a week coming on. It's just the odd guy when the free when they got a spare day over Christmas, he was climbing the walls of here a lot of us were. And each come up and grocked it grocked it in a second.
I couldn't pitch it to somebody off the street for days. Yeah. They'd be like, you've lost me. You've lost me. You've lost me. He's like, yeah. Get it? Oh, yeah. We'll do that. Oh, no. That's not too bad. Yeah. And then you're getting them talking about what they've done for years in a hostile environment competitively Mhmm. When they've been given 50% more resource with a project that they actually like the result of. Mhmm. Yeah. That's just one strand. So all these siloed knowledge strands, to a tech guys product and have a trainer verify that as far as the people involved and how they behave solid and everybody your builders got the best training and the best tech put in the building trade and all the others, man, you know, might not be like top competitive, but just slightly better, slightly less knackered is better.
Yeah. You know, like, it it doesn't take a lot, I don't think, to get people going. No. So I'm gonna try and look for momentum and then keep it. Give it all back. Just keep putting it all back in. I don't want it. Just let's it come out of nothing. Run it. Just let's see. Let's see who turns up, what they wanna do. But, like, don't come up sad and solvable problems. If you come away and they're all unhedged and you're fucked. Now it's like, alright. That thing I was pretending is holding me back. It isn't someone called me out and helped me. And now tomorrow, I've got to do the project. Yeah. Yes. I've got build God. Yeah. Tough. Yeah. That's that's that's the hard bit. The easy bits moaning. Everyone knows what's wrong. You can just heckle, and I've done that. I've been, like, made that an identity almost for the first few years of it. It's just honking. Yeah. Because you're always busy and it's not been much to apply, but now this pleb work, circular economies, that may be the wrong thing. Verticals may be better. That's starting to thicken up. Well, yeah. And then there's, you know, it makes me think of outside of ungovernable misfits. We've got these different groups like the pleb minor group Yeah. Associations of The strands of interest.
[01:10:09] Unknown:
Yeah. They're sort of mainly a listener base who are a tight knit group, who are talking about a certain,
[01:10:17] Unknown:
certain subject very tightly and look after each other. Mhmm. And so those pull in as well. Mhmm. You wanna mine on here? Yeah. Okay. Cool. I'll call my mate John. Yeah. It's done. Yeah. Like Yeah. You wanna have some tech stuff sorted out. Well, we know the people for that. And what's it cost? Like, what's it cost? If it costs nothing Mhmm. You don't. You're you're away. Yeah. If you wanna pay silly sausage prices on the high street plus VAT Yeah. And everybody else's cash insurance and all that, then that's a poor model. And it speaks to a lack of friends Mhmm. And a lack of shared purpose Yeah. Yeah. That people can be split up to that degree and taxed in between all these different bits, and they just live with it because they've just got so little in common with each other that a builder can't see what you can benefit from a tech company without having to go through a stupid gate. And we're all mates, so onwards.
The best of the Bitcoiners are the best of people. I've got a list. We both have list. I've got a list. I've got 2, actually. One's written in blood. No. But,
[01:11:21] Unknown:
like, yeah, it can't get bigger very easily. It can get shorter easily that it can get bigger. Right? Yeah. Right. That's reputation writ large. So But your list and my list are both lists where you go Same. These are some of the most there's a lot of crossover. But that that list where you go, oh, these are some of the most competent and trustworthy people on the planet. Yes. I treat them like family. They treat me the same. Yeah. And Anyway. Yeah. And if they need help, I'll help them, and I know it comes back. Yeah. You can do some remarkable things with that list. Well, we are now. Like, I'm It's this thing. It's it's only till now it's been
[01:11:57] Unknown:
my loyalty to an idea that just takes time to to cook. And now there are blokes across the site. It's really, really weird to have different strands in my life mixing. It's like putting all the zoo together in the middle of the car park. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's amazing what a tech guy can easily instruct a trainer on. Easily instruct a trainer on. Yeah. And then the blind the equivalent blind spot is equal and offsetting. Mhmm. And the value is to be blind in either area, but still be a specialist. You're definitely a specialist. Yeah, mate. I do I for minute or third specialist, you have a face. I'll let out of my fucking lizard brain. Mate, you are definitely a specialist. I am actually fully certified regarded. Yeah. We've got Highly recommended. Mental health. I've got mental health. Got a cowboyitis.
Do stupid things all the time. Risky stupid stupid boy. Don't know why. Mog took the mob down at icy hill. Nice. No reason to. Just for fun. It was just late. We worried it was gonna keep snowing. I invented a scenario where I had to get them all to the bottom of the hill. Because it's fun. Did 2 test breaks that failed. Yeah. And then went anyway. Well, honestly, it would take you that. That hill you came up for the first podcast. Yeah. That snowed, thawed, and froze. Oh, Jesus. And then snowed on top, so it looked like crunchy snow. Yeah. And the mod, the uni mod, like a big transit van. It went down 45 degrees with me in it on the wrong end, and there was no reason. I've done it that, and it did a bit of felling in the wind. Yeah. A bit silly. Yeah. That's silly. But, again, could invent something. I just like the risk. Yeah. But I yeah. We're working on it. And then what was the latest one? Oh, yeah. The bloody swimming with the dog. With the dog. And I tell you the truth, I was up to my knees, but then I was tempted to just get all the way into my neck, so I did. That was silly. I'm gonna get in tomorrow. Yeah. We're both gonna get in. Yeah. We will. But this time, I'll lay some ropes out and, you know, just in case, and maybe, like, go and fill that inner tube up with the tire that popped. Yeah. That would be a good idea. Oh, that'd be a good idea. Yeah. We could just, like, jam you in it. Yeah. Just throw you in.
So it's good fun, but the risky bit I'm trying to extricate the risk from the fun, but the risk is the fun. It only comes up every now and then. It just feels like a little devil takes over, and then something silly has to be done, and it always is done, and I always get away with it, and it's it's not gonna work. We've got we've got to do something about it.
[01:14:24] Unknown:
We'll work on that. We'll work on it. We've got tomorrow morning Yeah. We're gonna go swimming. Yeah. We're gonna rip a little pod maybe later tonight after we've had some food. After we have some food, maybe a couple of scotches. Yeah. Bit of food, maybe a little bit of a drink, and then we're gonna do another one. Yeah. Could even do one in the morning. So I think this is like an intro into Yeah. Talking about where we break the ice. Yeah.
[01:14:51] Unknown:
Where we were. Samson, bugger off. Get on. Sorry, Sorry, mate. We got the dog. Hello, mate. I think you might I think I might to piss the dog. He's he's he needs a whiz, I think. I need a piss. He's he's telling me in his way. So we'll stop it there then. Yes. Is that alright? I think that is a good A cracker. Yeah? Yeah. I think I'll come out of bummer. Yeah. Oh, I like a podcast. I think I should use you know what? You're quite well at that.
[01:15:16] Unknown:
Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope it's got your minds ticking away at some possibilities. If it has, make sure to get in touch. And if you enjoy what we do, please share it with friends and family, spread the word, and stay ungovernable.
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