Ungovernable Misfits

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Welcome to the The Confab, the term derives from "confidential talk", which was commonly used in the Prohibition Era for meetings and conversations that took place in the smoky, rule-breaking speakeasies of that time.

The informal, privacy focused and clandestine nature of Ungovernable Misfits lends itself to these discussions.  So, grab a seat and a stiff drink from the concealed bar, listen and revel in the conversation.

Sir Spencer (Wolf of Kansas City) from Bowl After Bowl grabs a seat to discuss podcasting, family and culture. 

IMPORTANT LINKS

• https://freesamourai.com
• https://p2prights.org/donate.html
• https://ungovernablemisfits.com

VALUE FOR VALUE

Thanks for listening you Ungovernable Misfits, we appreciate your continued support and hope you enjoy the shows.

You can support this episode using your time, talent or treasure.

TIME:

- create fountain clips for the show
- create a meetup
- help boost the signal on social media

TALENT:

- create ungovernable misfit inspired art, animation or music
- design or implement some software that can make the podcast better
- use whatever talents you have to make a contribution to the show!

TREASURE:

- BOOST IT OR STREAM SATS on the Podcasting 2.0 apps @ https://podcastapps.com
- DONATE via Paynym @ https://paynym.rs/+misfit
- DONATE via Monero @ https://xmrchat.com/ugmf
- BUY SOME CLOTHING @ https://ungovernablemisfits.com/store/
- BUY SOME ART!! @ https://ungovernablemisfits.com/art-gallery/

FOUNDATION

https://foundation.xyz/ungovernable

Foundation builds Bitcoin-centric tools that empower you to reclaim your digital sovereignty.

As a sovereign computing company, Foundation is the antithesis of today’s tech conglomerates. Returning to cypherpunk principles, they build open source technology that “can’t be evil”.

Thank you Foundation Devices for sponsoring the show!

Use code: Ungovernable for $10 off of your purchase

CAKE WALLET

https://cakewallet.com

Cake Wallet is an open-source, non-custodial wallet available on Android, iOS, macOS, and Linux.

Features:
- Built-in Exchange: Swap easily between Bitcoin and Monero.
- User-Friendly: Simple interface for all users.

Monero Users:
- Batch Transactions: Send multiple payments at once.
- Faster Syncing: Optimized syncing via specified restore heights
- Proxy Support: Enhance privacy with proxy node options.

Bitcoin Users:
- Coin Control: Manage your transactions effectively.
- Silent Payments: Static bitcoin addresses
- Batch Transactions: Streamline your payment process.

Thank you Cake Wallet for sponsoring the show!

(00:00:00) INTRO

(00:01:22) BOOSTS

(00:03:48) THANK YOU FOUNDATION

(00:05:27) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET

(00:07:03) Let's Pack a Bowl

(00:08:25) The Evolution of Bowl After Bowl

(00:21:28) Meetups & Meshtadels

(00:27:44) RIP LINKIN PARK

(00:32:31) Ungovernable Misfits: The Variety Show

(00:39:58) Bowls and Buds and Bowls and Bowls

(00:44:44) The Sir Spencer Squat Stream

(00:47:21) Live Podcasting and Community Interaction

(00:53:26) The UK Is So Fucked

(01:00:12) Influencin'

(01:17:17) Embrace Simplicity and Authenticity

(01:26:23) They Could Just Put You in a Box

(01:37:28) Cheers Mate

[00:00:04] Unknown:

Bitcoin   is close to becoming worthless.  

[00:00:11] Unknown:

Bitcoin.   Now what's the Bitcoin?   Bitcoin's like rat poison.   Yeah.   Oh. The greatest scam in history.   Let's get it.  

[00:00:27] Unknown:

Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.   Welcome back to All You Ungovernable Misfits.   I've gotta do this in one take, so let's see how it goes.   Today's episode is with Sir Spencer   from the Bowl After Bowl podcast.   I first listened to their show after it was suggested to me by Jordan, and I really enjoyed it. I love the fact that they really push the podcasting two point o stuff as hard as they do. They've integrated value for value into the show in a way I've not really seen before.   They're suggesting to listeners to run their nodes and get involved, and it's just really cool to see.   So I invited suspense around the show to get to know him a little bit, and I really enjoyed this episode.  

Before we jump into it, I wanna say a huge thank you to everyone who supports this show, whether that's with value for value, sending in boosts,   recommending the show to friends and family,   making gifts and clips, and everything else that people have been doing for us. We really do appreciate it, and it really does help us grow. I'm gonna read some of the top boosts from our last confab episode   with Ben Gunn.   John with 80,000   sats.   Seeing Ben's build and thought process evolve over the last few years is inspiring.   He's building a mesh to Dell supernode.  

Yes. He is. I was speaking to him this morning about that. Also, after this episode   with Sir Spencer, I invited him and his wife into the mesh to Dell. I believe they've now joined. So if you're in there and you're listening to this, make sure to say hello.   Solex   with 69421   sats. Nice.   A 60 nine, a fuck you,   a, like, little sunset thing, and a clock. Thank you very much, mate. I appreciate you   very, very much, and the   would not be here without you, mate.   Rod Palmer   from the Bitcoin Bugle.   Ben Gunn shakes hands with Guy Swan.   One letter n away from having a controversial   last name.  

Okay.   I don't really get that, mate. You can, you can let me know. I'm not credentialed, so that's obviously gone over my head.   Eight myth randier with 7,777   sats. Gun reminds me of Brad Pitt from Snatch.   Can't understand a word of it.   Pies with no message but 6,500   sats. Nathan Day   with 5,000 sats. He's one of the weirdest individuals I've ever met in my life.   Really hard work,   really annoying,   but also brilliant.   Oh, don't you know it, mate?   Great grand man with 5,000 sats.   Really enjoyed this. Gets me thinking about what I'll do once I reach escape velocity.   Plenty to ponder. Would love to visit Ben one day. Well, you should. Get in touch.  

Right. That's the top boosts. Thank you to everyone for your support. We really appreciate it.   Remember, if you enjoy what we do, share with friends and family. It helps this show grow. And before we start, I wanna say a huge thank you to our sponsors.   I'll start with Foundation.   In this episode,   we talked a lot about nodes and lightning   and all the clever stuff that you can do with Bitcoin.   But firstly,   you have to be able to secure   your SaaS properly.   You have to understand how to do this. This is the basis for everything. This is the foundation   of everything.  

The best hardware, in my opinion,   by a long shot, is Foundation.   I've been working with them for,   I don't know, must be four years now. It is what I suggest to my friends and family. The UX is so simple.   And on top of that, it has an incredible team. Our good friend and Ungovernable Misfits crew member, Bitcoin q and a, is always there making sure he keeps people private and secure   and makes it accessible.   Everything that they do is open source.   They have the passport   and the new passport prime coming. If you haven't seen the passport prime, I suggest you go back and have a listen to the episode I did with Q and Zach. They're doing some incredible things. And if you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.xyz   and use the code   Ungovernable   for a discount.  

You can also click on the link in the show notes that will take you to our own lovely Ungovernal Misfits   page that mister Crown has designed, which is on their website. You will get a discount. We will get a little kickback and a thank you, and it all helps this show grow.   I'd also like to thank Cake Wallet.   Cake Wallet are making it incredibly easy for anyone who actually uses   Bitcoin and Monero.   They make it easy to connect your own node for both. They make it easy to spend both. You can do gift cards and cake pay.   You can pay for your groceries and fuel and all the things that you need if you are actually living on Bitcoin and Monero.  

They also have some very clever privacy features.   And, again,   we have an ungovernable   crew member working very, very hard to make sure that all the users are safe and private. Our very own Seth for privacy, who runs the Monero monthly show with me, He's always working on improving   k wallet, adding privacy features,   making sure that people are secure.   I think just this week, actually, they've just done an update so that people can now use a passphrase   on their Monero seed. There's always an update. There's always something new. We cover this in the Monero monthly as much as we can. But if you haven't used Cake Wallet before, I suggest you check it out. They've got over half a million users already.   It's very simple to use. It's got a clean user interface and an incredible team behind it. Go to cakewallet.com   and download it today   on Mac,   Linux,   Windows,   iPhone, or Android.  

If you have any questions at all, you can reach out and ask me. If they're very, very technical,   then send us a boost, and we'll cover it on the Monero monthly show.   Okay? Let's get into the show.   Here he is. Hey. What's up? Can you hear me alright? I hear you perfectly.   Simple as always with all this technical stuff. Right. Like turning on a computer and a mic. That's as technical as it gets. It's a one click install, my man. I have a special way with,   product testing and fucking everything up.   It's some sort of special skill. I should actually be paid for it. People should send their products last thing when it's just ready to go out and just say, can you break it? And I'll say, yes. I can.  

[00:07:37] Unknown:

Absolutely.   Challenge accepted.  

[00:07:40] Unknown:

Well, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you so much, man. Long time coming. Totally. Yeah. We've been planning this for a few months now. Yeah. In between, you've, you've had a baby. Congratulations.   Thank you so much. That's pretty awesome. Is that baby number two? Baby number five.   Oh my god. Baby number five. El Cinco Sheen. Yep.   Well, congratulations.  

[00:08:04] Unknown:

Thanks very much. It's that, proof of work.   TikTok next baby.  

[00:08:10] Unknown:

Strong families.   Yeah. I was listening,   on the way back from the gym slash work today.   Heard you guys chatting about the show and got me excited again. I was like, ah, fuck yeah. I've got something to talk about today and get into all sorts of things with you. I've been jumping into your show a little bit more recently, but I do always feel like I'm a little bit lost because   I have no bowl to join you with, and I feel I'd be   more involved in the show if I had that.  

[00:08:39] Unknown:

Yeah. We always say clothing's optional, but pot is not, but that's just a matter of the haze in the air. It's not that you always have to bring your own bowl. It just kinda it just kinda emanates.  

[00:08:50] Unknown:

I miss   that. Yeah. I don't find it something that I can do anymore. Just, like, can't function well enough.   Mhmm. You've either got it or you've not, and clearly, I've not got it. You can, like, record and do everything   while high and   function like that. I just, like, sit in the corner, just, like, get too much into my own thoughts and can't communicate properly. We did a little, compromise kinda earlier on in our,  

[00:09:15] Unknown:

second iteration of the show because we got some advice   from sir Ben Rose who runs the no agenda stream over there. And he said, you guys   really gotta stop, like, just being stoned out for your show.   It's a   we thought about it because every every piece of advice we get, we consider. You know? Mhmm. About it. We don't really   bend over backwards for every single suggestion, but we've always consider everything. And we thought, well, maybe a good compromise   would be   wait until halfway through so we can get our set in. We can get this, you know, important stuff in. We don't forget any preflight checklist. But then that kind of started the behind the curtain segment of the show where we go behind the curtain where all of the fun stuff is, and then we can get a little more relaxed. We kinda have a compromise now.  

[00:10:10] Unknown:

Yeah. It seems like your show kinda spins off to other shows and,   has all these different sections   certainly   not like your normal   certainly in the Bitcoin world, like, hey, man. Tell me about your Bitcoin story. Oh, I bought in 02/2017,   man. It's, like, so fucking boring. It's like the same same shit, like, every single time.   Yeah. Whereas, like, yeah, you guys have really got, like, some music in there and people doing the jingles, and it's fun. Yeah. Thank you. It's different.  

[00:10:46] Unknown:

Try to do a little variety show, you know, and we've kind of been   open   to having that   evolve naturally. So a lot of the segments like, the metal moment that Rev Cybertrucker does, he just sent us one of those one day a few years ago and was like, hey. You know, if if you find this cool, you can play it on the show. And that became, like, a regular segment.   And that's kinda how it all came about. The Bitcoin stuff too, we put it on this segment we call on chain, off chain, cocaine shit stain. And that was just a non sequitur that I posted one day kinda describing the word salad you have to use when you're talking about node running and   using lightning and stuff. It's like Yeah. But our listeners really liked us talking about it even though they didn't understand much of it. That was the feedback we got. They were like, you know, it's it's sometimes hard to follow with the terminology, but we still like you talking about it because I've we feel like we're kind of just absorbing it somehow, maybe subconsciously or something. So that's kind of how that evolved too. We just sort of like, you know, we gotta talk about it every week and just make it a normal thing. Yeah. All the Bitcoin  

[00:11:51] Unknown:

knowledge and word salad you're talking about, it's like it just percolates   through. You just spend enough time   lurking around in the Bitcoin circles. You you start to pick up on the lingo and bits and pieces. But then also, I find there's, like, a point where,   like, you got what you want from Bitcoin and you know how to use it in the way you wanna use it. And then the interest in, like, learning every single potential new thing that might or might not happen and everything else, certainly for me, I'm like,   if I'm honest, I just don't care.  

I I use, like,   I use the shit that works, and, like, I like it. And then do I really need to know about, like, this new layer two that may or may not happen? If so, you know, it's just like, not really. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Especially with kids and stuff, you're like, fucking hell. I've got other stuff Yeah. More important. It'll come to you when it's, supposed to, I think. Yeah. That's it. Our philosophy is, like, getting in and building your own and having your own node is sort of the our blanket step one suggestion, which most people think that's too radical, that's too deep. You know? Nobody's gonna wanna do that.  

[00:12:56] Unknown:

A lot of peep I've had a lot of pushback on that. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, people wanna have an easy little   setup. People wanna have,   Albie or fountain wallet, and that's it.   Mhmm. Which, you know, it's it's fine to get started, but our philosophy is is for a long term solution, if you think you're gonna be in this game, you know, for more than a month to try it out, then building a lightning note, not only does that give you   full autonomy and control over receiving and sending your payments, which is pretty crucial in our world,   but it also forces you to learn   the bare minimum of what's necessary because the payments will stop, and then you'll start getting emails from people saying, hey. I tried to send you money, and I couldn't. Mhmm.  

So that's sort of the   what we encourage every week is get get in the car and drive, we call it. You know, build a node, and then   you'll be learning the things you need to learn, and you won't have to worry  

[00:13:52] Unknown:

when other companies change directions on you. Yeah. It's definitely true, and you learn a lot along the way. People,   I think, just gets it sound maybe it's like it just sounds hard. Oh, you gotta run a node. Like, it kind of sounds I remember, like, when I was running my first node, being a little bit intimidated,   and I wasn't really into computers and, like, techie particularly.   It just sounded really technical, but, actually, it's pretty easy now. Like, it's really not the most challenging thing. It's just, like, if you can be bothered to dedicate an evening to it, especially with things like start nine and, like, these these simple, like, plug and play ones and stuff. It's pretty easy. Oh, yeah. Definitely. And what's nice too is the,  

[00:14:35] Unknown:

usually, if you have anybody even encouraging you to build a node, then that is a result of being plugged into some sort of community that has the knowledge to help you too. So whether you're going to a Bitcoin meetup or whether you're in orbit of some kind of podcast that is encouraging this kind of stuff, you've got people,   in a chat room. You've got people via an email who you can ask questions to reach out and kinda troubleshoot with. So,   yeah, it's absolute I mean, we started four years ago over four years ago doing this, and   the ease of which everything works now is tremendous  

[00:15:11] Unknown:

compared to back then. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with lightning because that was really early days with lightning. Yeah. Totally. Like, I'm pulling my fucking hair out in the beginning.   People are like, oh, yeah. Run a run-in dojo and just jump into the command line and just do this. I'm like, woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. No. This is this is like you know, I spent days and days and then, like, troubleshooting   and then having problems. And then someone would be like, oh, well, obviously, you're gonna have a problem because you're on the wrong Linux distribution. And I'm like, oh, right. Obviously. Yeah. I mean, like Woah.   Yeah. And now it's like, if you really want to, you pay a few hundred dollars, they'll send you one. Like, you plug it in pretty much, and it's, like, done. It's it's it's so simple, which is cool. Like, it it means that more of this podcasting two point o stuff and just, like, general value for value can start to grow, which is,   is certainly something like we've seen. And you guys lean in even harder much harder than we do with all the podcasting two point o stuff. Like, I remember when Jordan first sent your pod over to me because he's a big fan. Like, he listens to all your stuff. Yeah. Shout out to Jordan, the lovely Canadian.  

He's not that lovely. He's just badgering me   now. He's literally badgering me now, going, send me the Spencer recording. I'm like, I haven't even fucking recorded. Like, I haven't even done it yet. We're making it. Come on. Come on. Just constantly poking me with a stick. Come on, mate. Come on, mate.   He's an awful bloke, but we love him anyway. Of course. Yeah. He was like, yeah. Listen to these guys. They're, like, really leaning into the value for value stuff. And I was like, yeah. Cool. I'll check it out. And I was like, wow.   This is like you've almost, like, molding a show around the idea of value for value rather than trying to, like, fit it into here's our show, or how can we fit in value for value? It's almost the other way around with you guys. Totally. Yeah. We think it's a really important part of the whole I mean, in our experience, it's a poor important part of the whole energy and the life flow,  

[00:17:12] Unknown:

is the value exchange. And we also,   so that's why we thank people, like, upfront in the show. And,   you know, after doing that for, like, four years now, we have only had two different times where people were like, can you do that, like, later in the show? I don't care about that. But what's nice about the variety show and having people who are interested in just different snippets of it is   the podcasting two point o chapters feature. So if it's published, we've got our chapters. And if you're in a modern podcast app, you can just skip to the parts that you like. So if you really hate that, value for value stuff, you can just hit next chapter. But what's nice about it is that's where the community really lives, and so you get to, like, meet   vicariously   meet these bowlers out there, these fans of the show who are, you know, sending in different whether it's pieces of advice or news tidbits or inside jokes or whatever.  

Mhmm. There's a lot of kinda lifeblood of the show there, so that's why we think it's really important. We're pushing it. We've been pushing it so hard. The bowl after bowl guys are pushing the value for value   so hard. So hard. It's fun. It's  

[00:18:21] Unknown:

like, compare that to, like, reading a YouTube comment or something like that. It's like, okay. You've read that. You might respond something, like, generic because you might not have time. Like, yeah. Just the comment or whatever.   But especially when there's two of you on the pod and you can back and forth about a comment, it's a lot more fun. And the ones that I do with John and the ones that I do with Q, I really enjoy and look forward to those because we do have a bit of banter and a bit of fun with the people who are sending in the boosts, and   it does quite often turn into a large percentage of the show. And then, like, the question sections on the more technical stuff where I get smart people in to answer them, that's always good because it's, like, a much nicer format for someone to rather than like,   how do I do this? Oh, go onto the GitHub. Work out yourself, mate. It's like, well, no. Come and ask us, and we'll we'll have a conversation about it. And that's a much nicer way to,   bring people in and sort of break down the barriers to, like, technical stuff. So I love all the value for value stuff, and we're just looking at sort of growing it out in any way we can. So we do our XML chat as well. We do obviously, Fountain is kinda like the main one that we're using, but any different way. I noticed you guys do, I think you still do PayPal,  

[00:19:35] Unknown:

and people can send you stuff to a PO box. Is that right? That's right. Yeah. Options. Yeah. We just finally got the PO box in play because   there just used to be this big barrier, you know, of, like, people have sent stuff to the house, but you've got a back channel and ask, and I've gotta make sure you're not a Looney Tune and all that kind of stuff. And we figured,   just, know, the PO box, then we can put it on the site and say it and all that.   There's just less  

[00:20:00] Unknown:

friction there. You're gonna get some weird stuff.  

[00:20:04] Unknown:

Oh, oh, yeah. We may we may get some weird stuff. I think the weirdest thing that we've got let's see. The most recent thing was, of course, Bitpunk FM. He sends out these cassettes   because he does his,   show on   physical analog cassette tapes, which is pretty cool. Yeah. That was cool.   Some good friends of ours just sent kind of a fairy mushroom   wicker wreath here that, they saw at a thrift store, and they were like, this reminded us of you guys. So, you know,   it's just it could be just about anything.  

[00:20:34] Unknown:

That's quite a nice idea. I like that. It's difficult with, like, the privacy side with me and other people in Lung Government or Misfits. We're very much, like, privacy focused. So there's always this, like, you wanna get close to the listeners, but you also   can't give too much information away and Absolutely. Yeah. Things like that. So it's it's it's always a difficult one. It's like there's this constant   push back and forth of like, oh, you wanna open up more because it's more fun and more engaging, but you also don't want to because there are some genuine fucking lunatics out there. Oh, absolutely. And then there's the real fucking lunatics, which is the government who don't particularly like the sorts of things that we say. So Right. There's always that. You're just kind of, like,   trying to find these workarounds, but the two point o stuff is a good one, and our little circular economies that we build is kind of another one we can get things to people in roundabout ways, which is quite nice. Yeah. Absolutely.  



[00:21:28] Unknown:

Yeah. I love that. The you know, I started going to Bitcoin meetups here locally as a result   of doing the show and making it podcasting two point o,   enabled value for value and all that and building a lightning note. And it was one of our bowlers one day who was like, yeah. I just,   did a Bitcoin meetup here in where I'm at in Southern California. And I was like, Bitcoin meetup. I wonder if we have one here locally. So that was why I even got in more involved in the Bitcoin,   enthusiast community, whatever you wanna call that. And it was funny because, you hear a lot of these memes like circular economy and, like, the different things. Mass adoption is a big one. Right?   Yeah. Yeah. And you think, well, people are like, people keep saying this shit, but what are they actually doing is just buying low and selling high. Like Yeah. Yeah. Why aren't you   lighting up when I'm telling you about this show that I'm doing that actually has been building a circular economy? Why why aren't you   interested in the whole music angle? You know, I've   been talking music since, pretty much since joining the the local meetups, and people will still show up and be like, yeah. We're trying to figure out how to do Bitcoin   music and, you know, get get the artist paid.  

Like, dude, you know, I've been talking about this for years. You know? We're we're out here doing it. It's going. It's working.  

[00:22:50] Unknown:

Yeah. That's it's frustrating. It's some of the some of the most larpy type people in the world   are the Bitcoiners.   Pained me to say it because it wasn't always like this, but it's a lot of that. It's like the buzzwords, like, say, oh, yeah. Circular economy and, like, whenever anything's actually happening,   they just can't actually be bothered. Yes. It's a weird thing. It's like,   you know, we try it with the, which is like a little group that we've got, like a little side group of hungover misfits, which is, like, loads of people who are, like, giving advice on permaculture   stuff or, like, where to get good quality fruit and veg and meat and things like that or how to,   harden your security systems and make sure your house or your networks are secure, or just like a group of people where you can, like, trade advice and just, like, help each other out, which has been   really good. And then from that, you've got these little, like, genuine circular economies where, like, one of our guys, Otis Bittmeyer, he roasts this coffee, and then he sends it out to people for Bitcoin. And Carl, who does the same with Lam and, like, you know, all coming to stay and learn about permaculture with him. Hell, yeah. That's fantastic. I have,  

[00:24:05] Unknown:

where can we find more info on the on the mesh to that specific stuff? I'll add you guys in. It's just a Telegram  

[00:24:11] Unknown:

group. Got it. So we got two. We got, like, we got the mesh to that, which is, like, more general, and then we've got the pleb miner mafia, which is, like, anyone who's doing any type of mining, whether it's big or small,   heating homes or, like, anything like that. That's that's our other one. But, yeah, Meschedel is, is really great. It started from one of our listeners   and his son, just like Wargaming.   What would happen if Bitcoin actually became   larger and government started to attack it harder?   Sure. They're just like, Wargaming this, and his son was like, you know, you don't wanna have citadels   because they're easy to attack. You wanna have a a mesh network of people who can   smuggle between them and help each other out and move things if they need to, and, like, you need this, like, antifragile   group. And so I loved, like, hearing I think he was, like, six at the time, this kid, and I was just like, this is amazing. Like, this is so cool. So we were chatting to this kid. Father and son wrote a article about it. I was like, this needs to be a thing, and they he'd called it the mesh to dale, like citadel mesh a mesh of citadels.  



[00:25:16] Unknown:

That's sick. Yeah. We were having a guy on,   tomorrow night who's,   sounds like he would fit right in there. He's a local permaculture   lamb guy   doing the same sort of   proof of work type circular economy stuff. You know, he wants to sell local produce for Bitcoin and,   just also, like, labor for bit all kinds of stuff for Bitcoin. Right? And you it's funny. You talked about the privacy stuff earlier. He just asked me today. He's like, you mind if I wear a mask? Because he's coming in person to the studio. He'll be our first. We just redid the whole studio and,   did a big remodel and moved everything around. Put we put artificial grass on the floor so we can touch grass. I heard you guys talking about that when you were, like, planning it. Yeah. That's cool. That's really nice. Yeah. It really has,   changed the feel and the vibe in here a lot. But, yeah, yeah, I was like, man, you know, whatever you need to do, if you gotta Yeah. Wear a mask, that's totally fine with me. It's tough, like, because if you go to a meetup with a mask, you almost draw more attention.  



[00:26:15] Unknown:

Right. Because I've considered that sometimes. I don't really go to them anymore because what I found was I'd go to them and I wouldn't say, like, oh, I am Max from Ungovernable Misfits. I would just keep a low profile. I'd chat to people or whatever, but I wouldn't say anything. But a couple of times, like, people not being malicious, just, like, not thinking, would be like, oh, yeah. This is Max from such as a and I'm like, I'm fucking like, they're, like, doxing you. They're not trying to be a dick, but Of course. They're just it's tough. Right? Because we've got to,  

[00:26:43] Unknown:

you know, spread the word of our shows and and, you know, get people who are interested interested, but we also Mhmm. Don't want the wrong people in there. We talk about that a lot with our the concept of passing the bowl. Right? Like, who are you going to   spread this show to? And that's kind of the context we wanna put it in, like, past the bowl. Would you go up to the deli counter and hand somebody, like, a dirty bowl and be like, hey. Hit this, man. You'll you know?   It's more special than that. It's more,  

[00:27:11] Unknown:

you're gonna wanna have to, you know, take a thought before you just hand this show to anybody, you know, because not everybody's gonna love or appreciate that gesture. It's very niche, isn't it? Yeah. Sure. That's why the sort of, like, marketing side I don't really know how you market, like, these type of shows because they're so niche. I think it just naturally grows.   That's right. Yeah. Someone really loves it. Like, you know, like Jordan, he loved your show, and he was like, oh, yeah. You need to check it out. Like, it's really, really good. And and so then I check it out. Oh, yeah. It's really good. And then people ask me, but it's just like it it obviously grows slower. But I know this is way out of left field, but has Jordan mentioned to you how he feels about this new  

[00:27:51] Unknown:

Linkin Park product out here, this,  

[00:27:53] Unknown:

this new band that Mike Shinoda is calling Linkin Park with new people in it? I've asked him a couple of times. Yeah? I was like, oh, what do you think of this new Linkin Park thing? And I just got fuck off.  

[00:28:06] Unknown:

Yeah. Okay. Good. Okay. I thought so. I thought that would be it, but, I just wanted to see if you meant for here's a strike for you, Jordan.  

[00:28:17] Unknown:

You have the same feelings? Yeah. Yeah. It feels pretty phony. I think it's really difficult to ever try and replace   that, especially when someone's died.   Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I I it's like there's, like, a like a queen.  

[00:28:30] Unknown:

Guy who's like, trust me, bro. I know what he would have wanted, and and you're like, well,   I don't know, man. Why don't you just call it a different thing? I think that's probably better. Even the queen thing, you know, they put with Adam Lambert on literally everything.   Right? So it's like, okay.   You know? And the guy can the guy's going for the the original sound in a reasonable   way. Same thing with the Journey. They found that, Korean guy, I think Okay. To do the old stuff.   So I don't know. The I think there's ways to do it that are   respectful   and and kinda pass the muster. But then again, that's the that's the free market. Right? The fans will decide. Exactly.  



[00:29:13] Unknown:

And sometimes you've got a product that's just, lowest common denominator enough that you've got the numbers no matter what. You know? Yeah. People will still listen. But, yeah, my assumption is from his response of fuck off was probably that he's not a fan.   Yeah. Yeah. Pretty sure I've asked him, like, twice as well and had the same response. So Sore sure. Listen to this, and he might he might Sore subject. I'm sorry if it's a sore subject,   Jordan. I'm not. Fuck you.  

[00:29:40] Unknown:

I'm,   I'm, I'm in solidarity with your with your response there. Yeah.   Sorry. Not the rabbit hole or anything, but You're a musician as well. Is that right? Yeah. Yep. I primarily drum   because that's the only thing I've been, like, formally trained on, but I mess around with vocals and,   drum machine beats and guitars and pianos and whatever.  

[00:30:04] Unknown:

Whatever is it. And Dame DeLorean? How do I say it? Is it Dame DeLorean like the card? Yeah. DeLorean. Dame DeLorean. Is she also,   into music? Is it like she plays  

[00:30:15] Unknown:

a instrument or sings? She's a pianist and, classically trained vocalist, so she does that singing and piano stuff. Awesome. I love the idea of that in a home,  

[00:30:25] Unknown:

like, people who can sing and play musical instruments and stuff. That's cool.  

[00:30:30] Unknown:

Yes. I know. We need to get,   we're trying to set the room up to be more accommodating to that kind of stuff. Because just like everything else in life, you know, it's like one of these nice things that you've got the equipment around to do, but, like, do you make time for it? And do you, you know, music especially is one of those things where you've gotta do it regularly. It's not like riding a bike where you can just hop back on. It's like, you know, you I pick up the guitar. I picked up a guitar for the first time,   last week since this big remodel. So it's been months, you know, and my fingers are soft again and on my calluses, and it's like, wow. I,   I suck even more again. Great.  

Cool.  

[00:31:10] Unknown:

Yeah. I never got on with. I tried guitar for a while,   and, like, I've got fat, chubby,   like, clumsy hands that just ended up they just felt, like, fucked, like, awkward trying to do everything. Like like, as if I was already arthritic at, like, 11 or whatever I was trying to do. And I was just like, this is just not for me. Mhmm. I feel like the same with pianists. Like, you have to have a certain type of hand almost, like a long fingered, like, kind of vibe. Maybe that's not true. I feel like the physical part of it, you'd know pretty quickly if if if it's for you or not. My missus is very musically gifted, but me, not a single bone in my body,   has any   any ability.  



[00:31:52] Unknown:

I wish I had some more time to dedicate to it for sure. It's such a cool thing to be able to do. I love, like,  

[00:31:58] Unknown:

if you go somewhere and there's a piano or a guitar and someone can just, like, jump on and play. It's just such a cool thing. Totally. Not if they're shit, though. Like, if someone picks up a guitar and just, like, does something, you know, like, really, like, basic stuff. You're like, just put it down, mate. Just   Right. Let's not pretend.   Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you take that risk, you gotta deliver. It's not something you can do lightly or like a a piano in an airport or something   like that. Don't be going up and doing chopsticks on it. You gotta be you gotta be something special if you're gonna do that, I feel. Yeah. I agree.  

[00:32:32] Unknown:

I was kinda curious about   I I was looking over the feed of Ungovernable Misfits while I was, you know, listening to a few shows that have been published recently.   And you've kind of got the similar vibe of a lot of variety, but it's in variety of the type of shows that come out. You know, you've got Mhmm. Your PMM, which I guess is a newer, the Pleb Miner mafia you just mentioned. You've got these confabs like what we're doing. You've got the, news updates.   How how did that all kinda come about and what, like, what all shows are in the feed, I guess? Or what what's the Yeah. Ungovernable misfits umbrella?  

[00:33:09] Unknown:

You basically named all of them there with the exception of we've also got Monero Monthly with, Seth for privacy   Oh, okay. Which is the only other additional show. What kind of happened was, like,   I did for ages,   like, the Bitcoin podcast thing. I could get guests on. We talk about Bitcoin. They'd either be a developer, and I'd be talking about a specific thing or whatever, you know, like, different people in the Bitcoin world. And I just started to be like,   there's   a hundred other shows   doing the same   circuit of, like, the same people   Totally. Say the same things. And, like, it it almost, like,   it's almost interchangeable.  

I started just to be like, I'm a bit bored of this now because I only started the podcast because   I was really into the Bitcoin stuff, and there was not a single person on the planet who would speak to me about it. Like, I kept trying and, like, badgering people in my, like, normal   life, and everyone just was like,   just fuck off. I don't care. Like, I started to feel like I just need to have these conversations.   Otherwise, I'm gonna drive everyone away because I'm actually just almost like, I don't know, like a needy ex or like a I don't know. Something like that, like, where you're, like, really desperate. And and that was, like, how I was feeling about wanting to talk about this. And so that's why I started the pod was like, oh, well, I'll speak to people who know about this stuff, and then I'll learn about it. And and also because   I'd sold everything that I owned to buy this thing. Right. Like, everything. And so then I was like,  

[00:34:46] Unknown:

I hope I'm not wrong.  

[00:34:48] Unknown:

I hope I'm, like, thrown my whole life away.   I wanted to be able to, like, feel that I wasn't. So that's that's why those conversations started. And then, yeah, just it started to just get a bit dull. I was like, I'm pretty confident I'm right in the financial stuff. At this point, I'm doing the same talking points with the same people over and over again, and it's, like, that's dull. I started with Bitcoin q and a. I was like,   can we just do some more technical stuff on, like, a monthly   show basis for people who don't wanna fully immerse themselves into, like,   hundreds of hours   of pods and stuff every week? Instead of doing that, like, they can just tune into our show once a month and be like, oh, okay. These are the news and update bits about Bitcoin. This is the technical stuff and the privacy stuff that that break down certain things. And that's kind of how that show started.  

I realized, like, I really like doing that because q and a became more and more of a close friend. It was I always look forward to having those conversations every month. It was different to the standard format. And then kind of the same thing happened with John. Again, just did, like, a pod with him. Really liked him. I was, like, good guy to chat to and knew a lot about mining. And even though he's, like, really fucking old, like, he's so much older than me that you'd think that you couldn't possibly be friends. Almost like Yeah. I could be his grandchild,   like, this geriatric fuck that kind of, like,   you question how he can even speak. Yeah. For some reason, that worked.  

We started doing some shows together.   Oh, actually, give him a life story here. But what actually happened was after I'd spoken to   John, him and his wife were supposed to do a mining conference.   Mhmm. They both put loads of work and time into it and trying to make it, like, for real people who wanted to run minors in their homes and businesses and stuff like that. And it turned into a complete shit show,   money grab,   wankfest,   corporate bullshit thing Sure. Which is not what they signed up for. John and his missus were like, we're really pissed off. Like, it's such a shame because we've put so much time into this, and we found so many amazing people who are willing to share their information. And now it's like going down the shitter because we've told them to fuck off. Right. And I was like, just do it on my show.   I'll host it. There you go. Yeah. So we did a show or two every day for a month. I was absolutely exhausted. I got so sick after it. It was absolute carnage. Just people coming on. We're talking about all the mining stuff. We did a whole month of mining. People were like, oh, you know, we want more content and blah blah blah. And we're like, okay. We're gonna do a monthly show. So that's actually how that started with him. So, yeah, just I don't know. I just I think the shows are more fun. It's nice having a cohost.  



[00:37:29] Unknown:

Yeah. Definitely.   I've always thought about doing some kind of format where I'm just, like, given my piece on something, but, like,   I can't really I don't know. I I've not even. I think the very first, like, two or three episodes of Bill after Bill way back in 2014 when we kinda started the first iteration of it, I think I had some of those. But,   once you have it conversational and you're recording conversationally, it's like, I can't even imagine just sitting on my ass by myself having to, you know, come up with Yeah. Stuff that anyone wants to listen to. You know? It's not as fun for listeners. It's not as fun to record. Yeah. It's more dynamic.  

[00:38:09] Unknown:

So that's kind of how it developed. People responded well to the different shows. And my idea with Uncoverable Misfits was, look, I want someone to be able to know very little or nothing about Bitcoin   and come in   and rather than be shield   all the custodial   lightning solutions   and the bullshit products   and the DeFi and the lending and the bullshit from all these bigger   podcasts   and get the wrong idea about Bitcoin and be like, oh, yeah. I'll just hold it for generational wealth and, like, my ancestors are gonna be, like, lords and all this, like, bullshit.   Sure. I was like, I just want them to, like, come in and be like, no. This is   money for people who don't wanna be controlled by governments.  



[00:38:52] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely.  

[00:38:54] Unknown:

And they don't want to   trust   all their hard work and what is supposed to go to their families with these thieving, disgusting   bastards.   You need to learn how to use the tools correctly.   You can't just buy it and leave it on Coinbase or whatever you're doing. Totally. Like, if they can come in   and listen to one show, they might listen to another. And my hope is that they're well rounded enough that they get a relatively good picture of what my view of Bitcoin and, like, privacy world is. And then I throw in these type of shows as well, which are the confabs, which is just like me wanting to have conversations   with other people in the space. It Doesn't necessarily   have to be, like, I don't know, like, a technical thing, like a lot of the other shows are. It's more just like a conversation, a confab.  

It tends to be   generally people who are, like, more aligned. I'm not into getting people on who are, like, the complete opposite of me and trying to, like, have a fucking   battle with them. Like, no. My way is the way. Like, I've got no interest in that. Yeah. I agree. No. That's a lot like,  

[00:40:00] Unknown:

our interview formats are bowls with buds. So, like, this guy coming tomorrow, he's gonna be on a bowls with buds   episode, which are published on the same feed. So it's a little bit like,   the energy on your feed except for just those are the only two formats we have. We have every single Tuesday night, we do a bowl after bowl. And then whenever we can get a bud into the bowl, we do the bowls with buds. At most, that's a weekly thing. Even that little stuff, my audience is a little bit probably,   how do I put it nicely? They're easier to confuse.   And so especially people who are just kind of one toe into our universe, it's caused a lot of confusion about what show we actually do or whatever it is. You know, it's like nobody knows. Bowls and buds and bowls and bowls? Bowls and buds and bowls and bowls. No one   no one knows exactly what it's called. Do you use? I have,   it's a Native Instruments Maschine, MK3 Okay. Which is really like a DJ, like, composer   type, you know. Just googling it now. Native instruments.  

Yeah. Native instruments. I'm pretty sure they're German company, I wanna say. The Maschine mark three and k three. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. I've found that it's, really nice for having a shitload of sounds on there that,   in my   wacky,   whatever you wanna call it, brain, I know where they all are within a reasonable amount and can switch, switch them really quick. And then I just keep adding on to them in a very disorganized manner.  

[00:41:32] Unknown:

It's nice having a soundboard. I've been looking at John has one. I can't remember what it's called now. It's, like, cheap one off Amazon, and it, like, comes up on the screen, shows you, like, what's gonna be said so you can, like, label them and stuff. Yep. I was looking at one of those. I think it's, like, a hundred dollars or a hundred and $50 or something else. Like, oh, quite like that because   I've got a couple   in this Zencast thing we're recording on, but it limits to me, like, I don't know. I've got, like, four or five. So I've got, like Sure.  

[00:42:01] Unknown:

Shills. This one. And that. Oh, there you go. Yeah. That's an important one, though. It's a nice one. You've gotta let people know when the shills come in.   It's a public service.  

[00:42:12] Unknown:

Yeah. That's right.   Oh, that's great. So do you think you're gonna grow   more out then show wise, or are you quite happy with, like,   the two There's always,  

[00:42:25] Unknown:

we're always looking to   add value. And so that's really the core of how we decide what else to do is   add value to the show or to the larger   communities that we play a part in. So Mhmm. The show kind of has has   grown piece by piece with that in mind. We've worked on some albums and some other songs with, other artists   as part of that general broad idea of adding value,   doing things like this, you know, coming on other people's shows as guests and kind of forging relationships that way. Lorian   has it's been over a year now, but she started a a music show with Mary Kate Ultra called homegrown hits.   So that's another thing. I've been playing,   with an idea. I haven't said this out loud, but it's getting kinda closer to,   maybe reality to the point where I might feel more comfortable saying something. This is the first time I've ever said it out loud. Whisper it, and then it's it's only halfway.  

What I'd like to do is do some kind of a   live workout stream because I need to work out Oh,   okay. And,   I've needed to do that for a while. I've just been kind of tinkering with the technical side of how what it looks like, how I publish it. You know?   That's an interesting one. I wanna do something simple because I need accountability.   Right? That's my biggest   snag in any sort of improving   myself or my, routine.   And,   when we made the the album Abel Kirby and I made, Stay a While,   we were doing this call together. We would, like, get on once a week, and we'd have a call, and we'd say, okay. Well, these are the songs that I've progressed on or I wrote a, you know, percussion spot for this or I've recorded this, and we just kinda talk in the background, and we weren't really that great at keeping the meetings always. Right? It was easy to be like, well, I've got something going on, so can we push it to next week? And he came to me one day, and he was like, hey. Let's turn this into a podcast   because it seems like every time I make podcast commitments, then I keep them. And   I thought, oh, yeah. That's brilliant. And then, you know, other people can hear it and, you know, and have some encouragement and feedback as well. And you I don't know. You kinda put your best foot forward. You're on a little bit more of your best behavior than when it's just two two guys being like, yeah. Well, this is what I managed to get done. So I kind of,   with that in mind, wanna start a   a workout stream just to,  

[00:44:52] Unknown:

you know I could work. A lot of Bitcoin people are trying to be fit and healthy and Yeah. Like, look after themselves, their families, and stuff. It's,   something that I think a lot of people would probably wanna get involved in depending on what sort of thing it is. Yeah. I guess you're gonna be limited by space to some extent.  

[00:45:10] Unknown:

Yeah. I just wanna do it down here with the grassy basement and get a couple angles that are, like, decent and just, you know, regular   push ups, crunches, sit ups, and I have a kettlebell too, so some kettlebell swings. Nothing super crazy. Just like a home gym  

[00:45:26] Unknown:

twenty thirty minutes daily.  

[00:45:29] Unknown:

TRX?   You know those TRX things? Uh-uh. Is it like a Total Gym type thing or like a Bowflex? Or  

[00:45:36] Unknown:

No. I'll I'll send you a a link.   Hold on. I gotta know this. I've also been kinda looking for  

[00:45:43] Unknown:

different plans, you know, different, like, workout planning,   stuff.  

[00:45:48] Unknown:

It's basically like bands. I think   certain parts of the military   use it because you can travel everywhere with them. You basically hook these cables   wherever it is. Like, you can either you can either have them hooked to the back of a door or onto a wall, and it allows you to do   hundreds of different exercises.  

[00:46:08] Unknown:

Okay. Kinda like resistance bands type thing? Oh, I see it. Okay. Let me see. Two long cords  

[00:46:14] Unknown:

with handles either side, but but they're, like, very strong, like seat belt strong. Gotcha. And you can adjust them up and down to any height you want. So you could do, like, press ups, pull ups, like, all these, like, all these different things that you wouldn't be able to do in a smaller space otherwise.  

[00:46:31] Unknown:

Interesting.  

[00:46:32] Unknown:

And they're like, I don't know, hundred and £50 or something like that, and they'll last, like, forever.  

[00:46:37] Unknown:

Interesting. Yeah. I'll have to check that out. Yeah. They're pretty decent.   So that's kind of thing I'm always I'm always thinking about, you know, like, what can we do   to   offer more value? Like, make the shows more valuable, make what we're saying more valuable, and,   that's a two way street too. Right? Like, I wanna bring more value to us as a as a result as well. Mhmm. So in our experience, you've gotta put more in to get more out, and we're always, you know, every every day   trying to think   how can we make that happen? How can I put more value into  

[00:47:09] Unknown:

this thing? You can see it in the numbers   and over time, and the community's growing.   You guys do yours live, which I have to say I'm quite envious of.  

[00:47:20] Unknown:

Live is a lot of fun. Yeah. Live is   a whole extra level   of that interaction   and that real time feedback where, you you know, we've got the chat room, we've got the voice mail line, we've got the live audio stream, and then we've also recently been doing a lot with video   over the past year because   last year, our good friend, Boo Berry, who does behind the schemes with Lavish on Monday nights, he came down and helped us set up this boostable disco ball in the studio. So there's this big ass disco ball on the ceiling. And when somebody sends in a boostagram,   the thing lights up. That's cool.  

So that sort of live interaction and that programmable money idea being taken to, okay. Well, we can actually make things happen. We can let the audience   affect the show directly. Like, you can turn lights on and off in my house with with Goodpoint. It's   that part really expands the whole idea of building a community and interacting directly with people, you know, real time feedback. That's been   pretty awesome. That is nice. We just use own cast, and own cast server to do the, video side of things. It's like just a self install on a cloud server that we do. And then for the audio, for the longest, we've always done,   ice cast server. I use Azure cast, which is kind of a it gives you the server to be able to put the audio out as well as   a liquid soap DJ that can play different things when you're not live. So we just play, like, old bowls with bud shows   in rotation when we're not live. And, yeah, if you if you're interested in any of that kind of stuff, adding that to your setup, I'm happy to   discuss with you or with your boy Jordan or what you know, whoever. If you ever have questions.  



[00:49:05] Unknown:

I love the idea. I'm just too much of a fucking control freak autist Sure.   To let go   my   editing time. Even though, like, it's the bane of my life, like, I I fucking hate it. Yeah. I just can't break myself away   from the control of it. Because when I'm crafting the shows,   I feel like, oh, this is like a piece of art or like a part of me. Sure. I was like, it sounds like really, like,   a bit wanky, but   it's kind of like the diary of myself. Of course. Yeah. I get hit by a bus tomorrow. My kids can be like, what was dad actually like? I'd be like, oh, he was a an awful bloke. I've just listened to his shows. Like, he's a terrible guy. Yeah. But it matters to me if I've recorded for three hours with John. If I can cut that down to   two and a half,   two hours fifteen, and it's Yeah. Punchier   and the quality of, like, the soundboard   because when he feeds the soundboard in, it sounds tinny and shitty. So I can go back, and I can cut all of that out and replace it with the proper m p threes or WAV so it sounds better.  

Sure. I can adjust the volume because sometimes it's too high and too low, and that's jarring and annoying. And so, like, I take a thing that I'm like, this is fine. Like, this would be a good live show and turn it into what I feel, at least I feel, is like, okay. No. I'm really happy with this. I think this is great. I think people are gonna enjoy it. If that takes me twelve hours to do, I do it. Totally. I just can't break myself   free from that. It's almost like I've done it for so long. I I Oh, I understand. I know no other way. There's something huge about that,  

[00:50:45] Unknown:

kind of I don't even like to call it a rut. It's more of a groove. Right? It's that   it's the groove of your workflow. And my like, there's a lot of stuff of my workflow that I have been working on automating or thinking about automating. It's been on the to do list for years,   but I still just do it by hand. Like, the RSS feed, I update by hand every show.   And   yeah. I mean, it also takes all types. You know? Like, if you know what you're good at and what you've been doing, you really don't wanna deviate from that a lot. You can carve out a slightly different part of your groove, or you can change the course of where your groove's headed, but you can't really hop out of that groove because that's kinda starting from zero, and that's a nightmare. That's like that can derail the whole thing in a certain sense. Yeah. Keeping your momentum, I think, is a is a good call. We do,   some postproduction,   but it's not really   a ton. I do have, like, just a drag and drop solution to make the audio levels kinda   match, you know, so, like, the quiet parts get brought up and the loud parts get pushed down a bit. Just run it through a compressor or something. Yeah. Essentially. And then I,   do a,   do a little bit of shaving silence depending   on how long it goes. Because, again, you wanna respect people's time. I think there's some hardcore bowlers who   would be happy if the show went as long as Red Bar,   like, if they were eight, nine, ten, eleven hours. But I'm always like, you know, we gotta like, three and a half hours is kinda pushing it. I'd like to average three. I'd like to be maybe under three most times, but I also don't want that to be   something that makes us hold back in any way, you know, or or cut down content or, like, talk less about stuff that we care about. So it's just,   it's kind of a feel it out type of thing. You know? And   we're keeping always, you know, an eye on the chat and an ear on, anybody  

[00:52:38] Unknown:

complaining, but, not a lot of complaints. So No. It is sound I mean, it sounds crisp what you guys are doing. It sounds good. Feel like also it's the type of show it just works with. Like, what you guys are doing works. I I hope what we're doing works. It's just fucking   long process. I need to find, like, some child labor or something to come in and do it and train them, but I've just not found   the right editor. We've tried, like   I've lost you. Motherfucker.   Oh? You there? I'm still hearing you. Back. No. It's mine. It's this VPN that just drops off all the time. I've got a weird setup here that's like a home like a a router level VPN, and then there's another VPN on each device and blah blah blah. It's like all good and private, but sometimes it's just a bit shit. Sure. Yeah. There's always trade offs. You know? Yeah. Exactly.   So if we're right about all this,   Bitcoin and circular economy stuff and it kinda, like, goes the way that I think you think and I think it's gonna go, do you have any concerns about what happens with the world, especially with kids? You know, are you ever, like, thinking   this is cool what we're doing, but, like, fuck. What's gonna happen in the next decade or two?  



[00:53:49] Unknown:

Yeah. It's tough. I think it's a big   unknown   for   really everybody, all levels of society, all industries, and all sectors. You know? A lot of people are running around in circles with the AI race right now.  

[00:54:02] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:54:03] Unknown:

And,   it's obviously   captured a lot of attention in capital in recent years, but nobody really knows for sure   what it's gonna look like. I think everybody kind of understands that the   institutions   and the, business as usual type thing is just flat out not sustainable,   but   we don't really know what the next step is because of that. Now I think guys like you and I would agree that it just means slowly building out   something that is more sustainable on a super local, super   decentralized, you know, does an overused word that's been kind of watered down, but   we gotta build something that's ours   that is sustainable. And I think that's part of what is cool about living on this circular economy   and   building smaller shows that are a smaller but more dedicated audience that actually cares what you have to say and   is involved and has skin in your game. And these these hyperlocal communities, which aren't necessarily always geographically local, but they're local to either an idea or a a group. It could be geographically distributed   because of the Internet and because of connections, you know, like like us right now. But I think that that's the real key that everybody's gonna have to   figure out. It's no longer like, oh, I'm gonna go to a college, and then I'm gonna get a job at one of eight places that serves   the sector that I'm trying to get into. It's more of how am I going   to justify   my spot in society? How am I gonna provide value   enough to sustain the value that I need to get out of it? I think it's gonna be more merit based and more of what you can do   for other people directly, you know, and kind of a peer to peer type of thing. There's gonna be much less that's just handed to you. There's gonna be much less that's carved out and predetermined.  

Okay. You follow this step, this step, this step on your life path. There's gonna be a lot more onus on the individual to kind of build their lives and and and make what make all that happen. Yeah. Producing actual value. But speaking to John about this the other day, like, so many people are in a corporate y type jobs, and they literally  

[00:56:18] Unknown:

produce no value,   nothing of use.   They're, like, have meetings and shuffle papers around and put things in diaries to check things that don't need to be checked and put extra systems in place that don't need to be there   and do compliance and regulation   and box ticking and bullshit. And you're like, what have you actually fucking done or built? Right. Like, if you actually ask them, they're like, what have you actually done this year that's useful?  

[00:56:44] Unknown:

A lot of people will really struggle to actually answer that. Yeah. They'll run over to chat GPT and ask chat GPT to write them a report of what they've done this year.   You know? Yeah. Spit it out and turn it in.   That's that's what I've done. And it's just a bunch   of corporate word salad, you know, which is Yeah. It's been able to raise billions in venture capital over the past couple of decades, but   it just doesn't seem like,   you know, that that's gonna continue.   There's a lot of steam falling off of that. And you kinda see it here in the,   latest huge shift seismic shifts in in,   the federal government here where the federal workforce now, you know, that's been like a it's been like   a telecommute work from home phone and in position for so long,   and all of that's coming to an end. And all of these moves that the federal government setting, you know, the corporate world is going   to adopt them in many cases. So Mhmm. I mean, we'll see what happens, but it it does seem like   just   typing   fluff onto a screen and hitting send is not going to be a career for for much longer.  



[00:57:58] Unknown:

Well, let's hope so. I mean, it's interesting seeing, like, as an observer from the outside, like, you know, The UK,   utterly hopeless, like, just literally run by   demonic pedophiles.  

[00:58:11] Unknown:

It's fucking crazy.   It's so fucked up. It looks I've every time I see The UK developments and I mean, for quite a number of years now, but especially in the past  

[00:58:22] Unknown:

six months, I just I didn't think the pills could get this black that I'm getting handed from The UK side of things. Like, woah. Oh, mate. It's proper bad. And, like, it's something I've sort of, like, known deep down is very bad for a long time. Sure. But it's only recently   even my missus, like, I'm like, I seriously wanna leave this country. I don't live here anymore. And,   it's only recently she's like, yeah.   It's fucked, isn't it? Like Damn. Yeah. It's proper fucked. That's pretty wild. And it's like, it's fucked, and you get charged the earth to live here.   You fall, sneeze, and you may be taxed. Like, everything is just tax, tax, tax, tax. It's so heavy that you just can't move.  

Most of the people that I know from this country who are smart or have well paid jobs   or run their own businesses   and are doing well either have left or are leaving. Damn. That's crazy. Yeah. It's bad. So I hope for your sake that America   there's some positive changes because that old fuck who was in before seemed to be,  

[00:59:28] Unknown:

was a bit wild, and really none of us   knew, you know, if he was really pulling most of the reigns or if people were just handing him documents to sign or if people were just sliding documents under his auto pen. Like, it was really kind of   unclear,   I guess you could say, for for most of those four years who was really driving.  

[00:59:48] Unknown:

It was like elderly abuse.  

[00:59:50] Unknown:

Yes. I think now there's not really much of a question who's driving. I think there's, some mixed opinions about what that means or if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's an improvement.   But I don't think there's any more doubts about who's steering the ship at this point. That guy Trumpy that guy Trumpy is pulling the levers.  

[01:00:11] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm pretty sure. I do get a bit worried about the Bitcoin maxi   types who are getting   very overly excited about the government   entering into   the Bitcoin world.  

[01:00:24] Unknown:

It's a very strange thing to see these guys salivate about, isn't it? It's antithetical  

[01:00:29] Unknown:

to the whole   movement.  

[01:00:31] Unknown:

It's like, why are you in Bitcoin? Yeah. They they cheerlead this, pro Bitcoin legislation, and I'm like, you know, the pro Bitcoin legislation is Bitcoin software.   It's all in the code. Right? And that's really all you need. Like, who needs an extra law? The only law that I would really welcome   is an unnecessary one that just says, okay. We shall make no law regarding this area. You know? Kind of like the bill of rights was originally set up to be. You know? Like, okay. So these are laws that say congress can't make a law that gets in the way of   speech, of right to bear arms, of practice of religion, of unreasonable search and seizure.  

That sort of thing for Bitcoin. Sure. Like, I wouldn't need it. Mhmm. It's astounding that you would need laws like that ever. But Yeah. Those would be, like, the ones where I get, okay. Sure. That one is good to clap for. But everything else, like, everyone's like, oh, we need regulation. I'm like, regulation?   The miners and the nodes regulate the network. It's done. Mhmm. You know, you don't need the the fed involved in that. You don't need the IMF involved in that. You don't need you don't need anything else. It's already put together. It was like,  

[01:01:38] Unknown:

separating money from state was like when I first got involved, it was all about that. And it was all about get the government out of your money, and they have no power here, basically. Mhmm. Their system's so fucked and so shit and so corrupt that we've had to make a new one. We wanna completely   sidestep   everything they're doing going,   fuck what you're doing. We'll build our own. This better. And now everyone's going, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get the government back into our money.   Like, that's a great idea. And, obviously, it's obvious why it's like it comes completely down to just number go up. Right. Exactly.  

[01:02:14] Unknown:

They want the government coming in being their sweet easy ticket to   mass adoption. And now I have 5,000,000 followers, and now I'm, you know, making   gajillions of   dollars. They'll still say I'm making dollars every day. Come on. Never gonna happen.   Come on.   It's not what the government does.   No. At least not for just regular retards like us. Right? The government does that for   their   friends. Mhmm. Their nasty, nasty friends. Yeah. They are very nasty friends.  

[01:02:45] Unknown:

It's just interesting to see it play out. There's nothing that anyone can do other than on our shows, we obviously push back against it, call everyone retards,   go to war with them,   try and affect the culture in a certain way. Send mean, naster notes out. Yeah. Yeah. Just, like, try and abuse   the comfy little weasels that go around the world with their wallet of Satoshi in hand and, like, think they're changing the world and getting their, like, influencer   banks pumped. Like, those type of pricks,   they need   a little bit of a slap occasionally. Just a little bit of a, like, this is not what we're here for. It might be what you're here for, but this is not what it was,   designed for.  

Yes. It feels like it's just gonna happen. There's almost nothing that can be done about it. All you can do is, like, sharpen your tools to keep yourself secure because the government is coming in more and more,   yeah, just, like, trying to keep yourself separated  

[01:03:43] Unknown:

for if it all goes bad. Totally. Well, I think that, like,   the big,   the big ice island that we floated on has been splintering and splintering slowly over time. You know? Like, if you go back   to to forties and fifties and sixties here in The States, it's like three networks. And there's, like, three TV networks.   Mhmm. And then cable comes along. Now you've got, you know, MTV. MTV used to be, like, a radical   grassroots, like, anti establishment thing when it was first put on. And now it's kinda part of this big establishment.   With the podcasting thing, you've got more splinterage,   and   I think people get lost in the biggest   islands. Right? Like, Joe Rogan   is seen as this anti establishment   outsider   guy, but people always forget he's, like, a Hollywood made man. You know? Like, before he started his own little podcast, he had Hollywood fuck you money from NewsRadio and from, fear factor. You know? So it's like,   you know, these guys aren't really   the organic   guys that,   they've got this reputation,   but it's not really been earned. And, like, you know, you're not gonna get $4,000,000   deal from x y z platform because it's not making money. Like, they couldn't make money off Joe. They just gave him more than they I'm sure than they've pulled in from that. Not to mention the sponsorship   nightmare and   how that's just completely chilling for your format and for who you can have on and what you can say to them and and shit like that. I think it depends how you do it. I think we're pretty lucky  

[01:05:13] Unknown:

in the sense we've been pretty careful about who we take on as sponsors,   but I can say anything I want.   Right. Foundation aren't gonna call me up and be like,   Max,  

[01:05:24] Unknown:

you you called someone to come? I'm like, yeah. I'll call you on as well. Like, what are you what the fuck are you doing? I think that's crucial too is the the relationships you build. You know, you've gotta know each party has to know who they're kinda coming on board with, which is great. You know, there's there's a lot of Bitcoin space influencers who had to say, oh, sorry because, you know, my name was a promo code for FTX for a while and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of shit. So Compass mining  

[01:05:51] Unknown:

and all the scammy bullshit.  

[01:05:52] Unknown:

Rocket ship.   Yeah. What one was that one? Fucking pump, wasn't it? It was pump saying it about, Three Arrows, I think, capital. Three Arrows Capital. Anybody remember a little company called Three Arrows?  

[01:06:04] Unknown:

Yeah. That was oh, yeah. What was it called, the specific thing? It was BlockFi. BlockFi. Yeah. BlockFi. That was it. Oh my god. That was so funny. I I watched that so many times because he looks like he's coped off his face. Oh, for sure, man. He's absolutely   fucking Riding down. Skiing. A shoe.   And then his missus is there, like, next to him just looking like,  

[01:06:28] Unknown:

what's going on here? Like, it just it's such an uncomfortable scene. It's so funny, dude. It really says a lot in just a three second little thing you can watch. It says so much.  

[01:06:40] Unknown:

Yeah. He was one of the first people I was listening to, actually.   You find your way into these different whether it's music or Bitcoin or whatever it is, like, you sort of slowly find your way down to the more and more niche stuff generally.   Mhmm. First coming in, he was one of the first people I listened to. He had the big guests on and all that kind of stuff, but it didn't take too long to be like, oh, this guy is really fake.   Like   like, this guy is incredibly   fake. And who's the other one? Ram Newman or whatever his name is. There's a few, like, different   crypto guys. Baby blue Lambo kinda guys. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. There was one guy I used to watch, and he had, like he used to record.  

He actually wasn't too bad, the guy, to be fair, but he used to record. And then he had, like he was recording in his garage, and he had his new white Lamborghini   behind him. And I was like,   okay. That's a flex.   Uh-huh.   It's what it's called a red flag, my man. Yeah. He actually he wasn't too bad, that guy. Like, he was one of the better ones, but, yeah, still  

[01:07:43] Unknown:

Yeah. It's funny. And it's sometimes even funnier the guys who are, like,   always trying to be in that sphere, and they just are too dumb to pull it off. Like, Dave Portney, I think, is a perfect example of that. Like, he his latest post I saw on Twitter the other day was like Yeah. I'm really looking into trying to figure out, like, if I can do a meme coin, but, like, not rip a bunch of people off and still make a shitload of money. I'm like,   no, dumbass.   That's impossible.   Do you know where the shitload of money comes from?   When you make a meme coin, do you know where the shitload of money comes from?  

Do you think he's actually that dumb, or do you reckon he just plays on it? Because he's he can't be a complete idiot, can he? It's so hard to tell, man. If he's Yeah. I think for sure he's dumb. I think for sure he's dumb. Now how dumb is he? I'm not he might lean into it a little bit, or he might not give a fuck too much about, trying to but I think for sure he's dumb if he's being honest about his Bitcoin positions.  

[01:08:46] Unknown:

If he's being honest. I I just wonder, like, how much of the stuff is content   and just, like it just pulls more eyes. It's possible. Yeah. People wanna see a guy lose his ass. You know? If you go on Bitcoin Twitter and you say something, like, dumb or, like, bad about Bitcoin,   people you'll get thousands of people just be like, no. Bitcoin's the way. No. You don't understand. No. Listen, man. You you just don't get it. And, like and so your engagement goes up. Chum in the water. Yeah. That's what's kinda fucked too about the traditional means of the attention  

[01:09:21] Unknown:

economy versus this value for value situation. Like, in the attention economy in YouTube and Twitter land, like, it doesn't matter if people hate me. I make money off of them too. I make money off people hate me, the people that like me, or the people that are just like, I can't believe this. This is dumb. I don't, you know, they're, like, right take time to write out a comment about how, like, this isn't worth their time. I'm like,   that's interesting.   This isn't worth the time that you're giving it right now. Is that right?   It's so not worth your time that you're wasting my time with it now because I saw this shit that you made.  



[01:09:55] Unknown:

It's funny. But, yeah, you're right. It's like, it's a much slower burn to do the value for value thing, but it's it's a much it's a nicer experience.  

[01:10:04] Unknown:

Yeah. Well, the ins the incentives are pure. You know? Mhmm. Like, my only incentive is to deliver value. And if I Yeah. Don't do that as well, I don't get as much value out of it. Like, if I make a bunch of people hate me, nothing, you know, nothing good happens. No. If mister beast goes out there and makes a bunch of people hate him, then all of a sudden, you know, revenue jumps 20%.   It's crazy.  

[01:10:27] Unknown:

It is crazy. Yeah. Some of these guys, like, their reach   and their influence on culture is pretty astounding. Like a Joe Rogan. You know? That that is, not that I dislike him. I listen to a show sometimes, and, like, I don't I don't have a issue. Like, you sometimes they're quite good. I don't I like,   I used to drive a lot. Like, a lot a lot. Like, a lot.   And so I'd run out of podcasts and things, and I'd be like,   do you know what? I'm gonna go down a rabbit hole. And so I would, like, go and listen to   every UFO   slash alien slash, like, anything in that sort of, like, grouping.  

And I'd, like, for two weeks, just be, like, listening to eight hours a day of, like, all this stuff. And, like, Joe Rogan's quite good to find   people to listen to and follow   and, like, go from there. You know? Like, it's Yeah. Because, like, he gets all the best guess. The and, also, like, he asks   dumb questions that I'd, like, wanna know where, like, some of the other podcasters, like, wouldn't necessarily   ask those questions or, like, they wanna look smart kind of stuff where Yeah. Whether he, like, really wants to ask that or he plays along with it just to make it more entertaining. I don't know. But sometimes that's quite good. But, yeah, the reach that these people have, you know, just like him having Trump on, like, how much of a difference did that make for Trump? Right. Yeah. I think it's a pretty huge one. Yeah. Especially in that,  

[01:11:47] Unknown:

younger demo. Well, people just want to in general, and I think it's   more   true the the younger of generation you reach into. But people, in general,   just want   to have the honest   truth or, like, the candid person talk   about where they're actually at. You know, they don't they can kinda see through the plastic nonresponse,   and it's frustrating. Right? We would rather have an honest   response that we disagree with than some kind of a blanket   nonresponse   that no one can get upset with. You know? People would rather just, you know, be told   what's up. And now with, like, the ease of access of information   for so long because of the Internet,   people are just not really   sticking around for the scripted TV presentation of things.  



[01:12:39] Unknown:

Yeah. It's so gross, like,   unbearable to watch. And the same with politicians and stuff like that. Like, a question is asked,   a completely random set of words are strung together that mean nothing that Yeah. Don't answer any of those things. They're really good at it. It's an incredible skill   Yeah. That they've learned to, like, say a lot and actually  

[01:13:02] Unknown:

say nothing at the same time. Yeah. As soon as you hear one of them robots say, what may be clear,   you can just turn it off because everything about the rest of the thing that comes out of their mouth will offer no clarity, no substance, no Mhmm. Point of action,   no accountability, nothing. Nothing comes after let me be clear. Yeah. It's so frustrating.  

[01:13:25] Unknown:

So, yeah, like like you say, even if even if someone, like a politician goes up and goes, we're gonna fuck you.   Right? Your life's gonna be worse, and this is why. I'm gonna steal your money, and I'll give it to my friends and go in their back pocket. And, yeah, I'll be spending a lot of it on hookers and cocaine, and, you know, that's basically what we do. And at least if they said it, you'd be like, at least I respect that you've said it to my face. You know what I mean? Like, at least you've said it rather than all the bullshit about saving the fucking spotted owl and whatever else they say they're gonna do. It's just like, come on. This, like, LA fire response situation is quite crazy because you got the mayor of LA over there  

[01:14:05] Unknown:

sitting down at a card table,   like, meeting,   and there's Trumpy right to the side of her, like, shoulder to shoulder. And she's, like, just scrambling   to get the words out that people wanna hear. And so she's like, well, you know, everybody's been told this. You can go back and start building an 18 thing that they're very pissed about. She's like, no. No. No. It's gonna be faster, and we're gonna cut red tape. And then they're pressing her harder for specifics. And she's like, well, you know, we're gonna get people back really soon. And then really soon becomes like, we think within a week. And then   she even agrees to,   I think, tonight. Well, yeah, they can do that too. And then, you know, the days and week rolls by, and there's still people that are not allowed back on their own block in Pacific Palisades. And Yeah. It's just like these people will say whatever to the cameras that needs to be said. It's almost like they've been coached and trained. Like, just say whatever,   and then we'll do something else   over here in the actual  

[01:15:02] Unknown:

arena. It's nuts. Like, it's not something I think that can really last. That's something that's you've been able to get away with for so long in politics. The I think the time is running out on a lot of that. It's easier, isn't it? It's like, I I'm quite direct in personal life stuff. So, like, you know, for example, if someone's like, hey. Yeah. We should really meet up next weekend, and, like, I've got this drinks thing, and, yeah, you know, like, come along, bring your missus,   and, I'll be like,  

[01:15:28] Unknown:

no.  

[01:15:29] Unknown:

Yeah. But,   like, no. I'm spending time with my kids. Whatever. Yeah. But what I find is, like, a lot of people and I do it, like, directly because I'm like, I don't wanna waste everyone's fucking time. Because otherwise, it's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. We'll, we'll probably we'll probably   maybe sort of think about and stuff, and we might either we're the yeah. I'll message you and and things, and and then they message you. Do you still wanna do the thing?   Yeah. Well, let me just check with that. And you got this whole, like, dance around. Gotta look at my calendar.   Yeah. Look at my calendar, and it's not synced with my missus calendar. And we've got these other orbiting problems that may or may not collide with that time. And instead, you can just go, no. Yeah. I actually don't wanna do that. It's like, no. I'd rather just sit on my ass  

[01:16:13] Unknown:

in my house,   actually.   On that night in question that you mentioned, I'd rather just kinda lay back Yeah. And then,   not do anything.  

[01:16:24] Unknown:

Isn't that   isn't that all? So nice. Always try to get back to you.   Yeah.   I would love that. I have this dream, which is, like, is so sad. Maybe it's like a dad dream. Mhmm. But just, like,   going alone   somewhere, like, in a tent or something   with just a little campfire.   Nowhere where there's no noise at all for, like, a whole   afternoon   and a night and then the following morning, maybe smoke a joint, maybe have a drink,   and nothing else. Yeah. And that's, like, such a loser ish. Like, if if I just hold myself out, like, fifteen years ago, I'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you, mate? That doesn't sound fun at all. Yeah. Like, I can't think of anything better than just, like, just that peace at the moment. Yeah. Absolutely.  

[01:17:09] Unknown:

So nice.  

[01:17:10] Unknown:

Yeah. The old, Dallas center to get back to. It's because everything's so busy, isn't it? Like, you got day jobs and podcasts   and interests and kids and, like, all these commitments and stuff. And, like, it's very difficult to,   you know, like saying about getting into a rut with the way you do a certain thing. Yep. That's where, like, I used to be able to break out of that because my thing would I had a really stressful job that was very, very busy, and then I'd get home.   I'd smoke a joint, and I'd paint for an evening. Mhmm. I'd, like, just create   for an evening, and that would reset my mind. And often the next morning, I'd wake up and be like, ah, I wanna change this, so I wanna do that. And it would be like a reset. I feel I feel like people need, whether it's creativity or just a bit of peace and silence or something like that, It's like you need that little bit of time for your brain to, like, I don't know, like, reboot or, like, change its ways. Otherwise, you end up in a rut and you suddenly get you're like, oh my god. I'm 60. Like, I'm I'm in the same job. I'm, like, doing the same stuff. Oh, I'm not in the country I wanna be in. Oh, I don't really even like my friends. What am I doing?  

You get that sort of, like, meltdown. Yeah.  

[01:18:22] Unknown:

I I like a walk for that kind of thing too. You know? Just even a simple like, it literally doesn't even have to be a long walk in a nice place. You can walk in a big circle in your backyard around a chain fence if you want. Like   but just moving your feet one in front of the other and kind of letting your thoughts,   come and   go as they will without really kind of white knuckle gripping anything.   That's sort of nice to get into that physical   that physical action where you know what you're doing physically, but then your mind is allowed to kind of come and go. I don't know. I think smoking is even a miniature version of that.  

[01:18:59] Unknown:

Yeah. There's something that's like,   it's almost like a ritual of, like, rolling up and Mhmm. I don't know. I always used to enjoy just like I'd come home and then be like,   that shit because I hated my job so much. I fucking hate I hated every single person I worked with. I hated them. Literally, if someone was like, oh, yeah. Amy got hit by a bus. I'd be like, good. Awesome.   Congrats for shedding that, by the way. Isn't that nice? It's so much nicer. Now everyone I work with, like, I sort of love 95%   and, like Yeah. I also kind of hate them 5%, like Sure. Because it's fun, like Jordan and John. Just you gotta have a little bit of hatred. You've gotta have some kind of,  

[01:19:43] Unknown:

friction or I mean, it's   we live in a war universe,   man. That's just how it is here. You know? At least this   iteration, this existence, it's a war universe, so you've got to be   armed properly for that kind of thing, you know? Otherwise, someone else is gonna come and take you over and, you know, you're just conscripted in doing what they're telling you to do. Yeah. I certainly did that for a long time Yeah. In stuff I didn't wanna do. Just like chasing money. Come on. You can have a better life. Yeah.  

[01:20:13] Unknown:

Yeah. It's different once you're doing stuff that you enjoy, isn't it? Like, Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. The creation process and, like, doing something you care about, like Yeah. Doing your podcast   and you guys, like, building it and things like putting the grass down, stuff like that. It's like, oh, yeah. That's cool. Being able to turn that light on and off and, like, stuff like that just it makes you feel good because it's something that you care about.   That's so much of a richer life even if it's not even if you can financially do stuff that's better, it's like, yeah. But you're gonna be miserable. Totally. Put out value. You get the value back in terms of stats, but you also get it back in terms of, like, I'm doing for something that I actually, like, think is cool. Yeah. It's fun. It's it's cool. I look at it, and I go, wow. That's actually even more badass than I'd imagined. You know? Like, that's  

[01:21:04] Unknown:

that's what we try to emphasize to on the show when we do the value for value segment, like the money part of it. It's obviously crucial. It's like a lifeblood thing. And I think everybody kind of understands that. But a lot of people get too wrapped up into it, you know, and so we were like, hey.   We talk about it every week, the value for value. We start with the money because it is important. It's not like we wanna diminish that in any way, but there are so many other   facets   of value   that are just not able to be added to an Excel spreadsheet, you know, like what you're talking about. Just the just looking at the grass right now in front of me and being pleased with how it looks and how it feels on my feet. Like, what   how do I put a number on that? Do I put a number on that for currently right now in this moment? Do I put a number of that over time in the the three months that it's been down? Like, what's the number? Well, there that's impossible. Right?  

But it's valuable. And once you start to lean into it, you can kinda see all this value get added to your life. If you're not having fun, what's the value in that? If you're not doing what you want to do or what you feel is, like, part of your purpose here   as a human being, then, like, where's the value? Because it's just like a road to misery otherwise. Yeah. It just accumulates stuff   to fill a void. Yeah. Or I wanna be, like, copying   these other cheese balls. Right? Like  

[01:22:29] Unknown:

There's so much of it. Like, there's just There's a lot. There's a lot.   I don't know whether it's, like, just   the space that we're in. Like, if you go into any podcasting   group in any sort of on any sort of subject, you're gonna have the same sort of thing, but it definitely feels like that. Definitely feels like it feels like there's loads of spooks lurking around. Oh, yeah. So many people where I'm just like, oh my god.   Like, for sure. Yeah. Everyone hates me for it, but I think Sailor's one. Yeah. I've never understood the  

[01:23:02] Unknown:

Sailor fellatio  

[01:23:03] Unknown:

movement, to be honest. It's weird. It's like it's a weird it's like a culty  

[01:23:08] Unknown:

I guess, because that, you know, he's pumping the bags. And I'll give him this. He's a really good salesman. Yeah. And he definitely figured it out, you know, as to in terms of, how to endlessly print Bitcoin out of thin air with his own company. Like, that's Yeah. Pretty cool for him, but, like, what you know, how does that help the rest of us? Like,   the the bags being pumped, the number's gonna go up regardless. Right? That's just how it's set up. But the bags being pumped, if it's any sort of artificial pump or bubble, the only way that benefits   you is if you are day trading, selling   all the time, you know, which isn't my move. It isn't my move. I'm just using this as a better money   Mhmm. Full stop. So it's not for me, it's not an investment. It's not a trade strategy. It's not a,   fucking NFT,   collection.  

It's not you know, it's just a better money. And so first, in order to understand that, you gotta learn what the hell money's function even is, and then you've gotta use money. So, like, the guys who are never spenders,   it's like, well, that's not how money works. Yeah. Mm-mm. The guys who are   buy low, sell high guys, like, that's not really the function of money either. And it just I think it misses the point. A lot of people are it's   I don't know. Yeah. I feel real bad for the newbies   in the sense not that,   everything's too hard because it's easier than it's ever fucking been. Oh, yeah. Where I feel bad is there's just way more   noise and traps.  

Like, when I first   actually used Bitcoin, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I didn't really know that it was important. I didn't even know what the blockchain was or how blocks were solved or any of that. But   what I was doing was there were so few things going on that there wasn't a lot of different traps and scams.  

[01:24:55] Unknown:

Back then, it was like, as long as you don't just have a bunch of Bitcoin on Mt. Gox that you're trading, then, you know, you're probably gonna have a fine time. Yeah. Being told not to ever spend and always to hold, and you're gonna regret it otherwise and all this kind of stuff is Yeah. I don't know. But the the, you know, that's the thing. I think this value for value stuff is, like, a good   way that teaches people   that's not necessary. Like, you can actually use this thing and Right. These little circular economies do start to even if it's small, like, Barn Miner, one of our guys, he makes beef jerky. You know, people buy it with Sats, and he sends out the beef jerky, and it's really good. And they might only start with something small like that, and then they start to use it more and more because it's kind of addictive once you start to use it. Like, I find even if I have  

[01:25:43] Unknown:

pounds, I'll quite often do, like, gift cards and stuff like that and use it because I'm just like, oh, I just kinda like using it. It's just kind of cool. It's kinda fun. Well, it's kind of an accounting trick too? Right? Like, if you're gonna spend something, you can still spend your dollars or your pounds. Like, you can spend that and get Bitcoin and then spend some of the Bitcoin.   But if your number's higher at the end of the week on the Sats account,   then you're still accumulating, and you've gotta spend. If I spend a dollar, I've also spent my opportunity cost of buying a dollar's worth of Bitcoin. So it's it's just accounting that people can't wrap their heads around. Like, you're spending it. You could be spending it in any form.  

[01:26:23] Unknown:

As time goes on, governments are gonna get tougher and tougher and come after people more and more. And so   a lot of what I think about is, like, how do people cover their tracks? How do people use this without   causing themselves a problem down the line? Sure. That worries me. You know? People posting screenshots and, oh, I just bought this, and then, like, everything's kind of, like, out in the open. Right. The government have the ability   to send you a letter. We believe that you own x,   gonna tax you unrealized gains or whatever they come up with some sort of scheme. You owe us this. You know, people say like, oh, yeah. We'll fucking come and take it then. You know, it's really secure. It's like,   okay.  



[01:27:05] Unknown:

Good luck with that. They can take literally everything else, you know, and put you in a little box   and say, alright. Well, you've still got your Bitcoin. I mean, you're in our little box.  

[01:27:15] Unknown:

It means nothing to them. They just put you in a box. And so that worries me. You know, that's something we try and teach a lot. It's like, be thoughtful about   how you use this stuff and be thoughtful about having   different partitions   of, like, this is k y seed stuff.   Yeah. This is stuff that isn't, and this comes through other means.   Shut your mouth down the pub. Like, all this kind of stuff where, like,   one guy, like, really nice guy, whatever, boom mother I know here, I talked to him about Bitcoin years ago, and he was like, oh, that sounds good. Like, he's a builder, deals in cash, a lot of cash, like, all the time. And I was like Sure. This is kinda like cash. Explain it to him like that. And he was like, yeah. Cool. I'll buy some. And, like, he made a lot of money out of it, hundreds and hundreds of thousands, because he bought quite a lot. He just, like, kept telling everyone, like, down the pub and all this stuff. And I'm like,   no matter how many times I say, listen, mate. I'm just warning you. Please don't keep telling everyone. Right. If you're telling them it's hundreds of thousands now, like, if we 10 x again.  

Right? Yeah. They know that too. Just please be fucking careful. There's, like, a lot of desperate,   crazy people.   Yes. As the price of Bitcoin rises,   it's likely to be at the same time as society is probably collapsing in a lot of areas, and people are getting quite desperate.   Correct. And then they're like, oh, that flashy cunt. Yeah. Go $5 wrench him. And that's just something that, like, we lean into, like, as hard as we possibly can because it's something that I feel is kind of inevitable. If you have these crazy prices with Bitcoin, it causes major problems for the fiat currency and that legacy system. You're more of a target because you're taking more from them. You're also more of a target from everyone else around you. So it's almost like it's a double edged sword. It's like,   right now, we're still kind of no one really cares that much about what we do, and we're kind of like,   don't worry about them. Like, yeah. They're just you know, let them run around those kids, whatever.  

But where are we in ten years kinda thing? I don't know. I think about that a lot. Yeah. I agree. That's another great reason to,  

[01:29:21] Unknown:

have a sane spending strategy too. You know? You wanna turn this into other valuable things   in your life that maybe can't be stolen or, you know. Some people who are like, would never would never buy a house with my stack. And it's like, well, I guess it would depend on your size of your stack and your financial   situation and picture. Like, there's also not a one size fits all too. Having a home is,  

[01:29:45] Unknown:

valuable Yeah. Especially with family. It's like,   Yep. I was saying this to my missus recently, like, I was always like, I'll never sell. I'll never sell. I had to sell a load because I left my Fiat job Sure. To do this. But before that, I was like, never sell, never sell. And the more time that I have with our kids, the more time I go, no, I will sell because   they're young now. They're only gonna wanna, like, I'm cool now. They wanna spend time with me now. They wanna spend all their time with me now. And in, like, ten years, I'm not gonna be cool, and they're not gonna wanna spend time with me. They wanna spend time with their friends and their computer games, whatever they're gonna do. Yep. And I was like, would I be better off doing that, but it's our home, and we're gonna be happy and build memories there and spend time together? Or are we gonna be better holding for another ten years because it might 10 x again? And then Sure. You don't have, like, a quite nice home. You have a mansion,   and it's gonna be amazing, and you have a Porsche on the drive. It's like, probably not really. Right. I don't think so because you have the time with the family rather than not, and you can't buy that again. Well, it's just more  

[01:30:49] Unknown:

time preference,   and Fiat dream kind of mistakes. You know? Like, I don't know, man. The flashy car type thing. You know? Like, I always imagine, like, that would be fun as a rental, but I live in the hood. I would not be able to park a Lamborghini in my driveway. Like, this is just stupid.   That's just stupid. Yeah. You're gonna get robbed, like, immediately. And as much as you can love a Bitcoin,   there is a more precious   commodity called time. Right? That's the actual   that's the actual one you can't get around. Michael Saylor can't cut more stock of,   MicroStrategy's   in order to purchase a bunch of time. You know? It's not a verifiable or known supply.  



[01:31:32] Unknown:

Bitcoin, you know.   Time, you don't know. Yeah. Exactly. You're always playing that game of, like,   should I have that food I really want? It's not gonna be as healthy. Yeah. I could die tomorrow, though. Yeah. But you might not. You might live another   sixty years. You're always playing that, like, time preference game with everything. You know, I could keep my investments now. I keep them for another ten years. Yeah. But then you're gonna be old. Yeah. But I might not live. It's like it's a really tricky one. You you mentioned the kids being a factor too, and it's like, okay. I can I can go without for myself, you know, and I can deprive myself, and that's fine? Like, I can go without a lot. But then  

[01:32:09] Unknown:

my kids, like, I don't wanna deprive them. That's not my time. Right? That's that's a different person we're talking about. And that's what what does their future look like if I deprive them now during their childhood. Right? Like, their most crucial years, it's gonna be   molding whatever they become  

[01:32:26] Unknown:

long after I'm gone. That totally changes the equation. It's proper weird, isn't it, that? Like It is. Definitely. The thought of, like, isn't it weird?   We've got these sort of, like, mini me creatures   that listen to everything and absorb everything, and they're so smart, and, like, we're in charge of them.   If we fuck this up, we fuck everything up for them. It's like it's such a weird responsibility   and that trigger that's only got stronger over time with me, which is like, I'm fine not eating just as long as they have a smile on their face. Yeah. You know, if you gotta go without a meal or you'd, like you can't you have things that you want or whatever, but, like, they get, like, I don't know, that shitty little toy that they're desperate for, and it's gonna make them so happy. Like, you're like, okay. Just fucking have it. Like Isn't that rough?  

[01:33:16] Unknown:

It's so weird. Oh, man. That's crazy. Like, the   I would have never bought a plastic Nintendo character, right,   ten years ago.   And yet here we are. Yeah.  

[01:33:29] Unknown:

It's,  

[01:33:30] Unknown:

it's amazing. Yeah. Oh, you gotta love the kids, man. Yeah. That's what it's all about. Yeah. Absolutely.   We just got our girls. So   the, Boo Berry, who I mentioned earlier, helped us do this disco ball thing. He puts on a quarterly   battle of the bands. We call the satellite skirmish Yeah. Where,   we've had six acts perform, and,   it kinda, like, boost and zap the bands as they're performing. And then the biggest zap receiver boost receiver is the is the winner of that particular   skirmish.   This last one we just did in January,   my girls, my oldest too, they made some art. They made some paper cut out snowflakes that he turned into these,   kinda digital artifacts that go on the OBS video feed, and, he turned them into, like, boost alerts, basically. So when you boost in, your name goes on to one of these snowflakes. And so they had value splits in this show, so they're, like, earning Oh, so good. Their first sats and, they've got their little wallets set up on our node now. It's it's super cool. They're starting to roll into doing allowance through that same mechanism too. So Do you know the trick is as well, it sounds better? Because, like, if you say,  

[01:34:39] Unknown:

if you go and do this, I'm gonna give you a thousand sats.  

[01:34:43] Unknown:

Yeah. It sounds, like, really good, doesn't it? Yeah. It's nice. And it only gets better. That's the beauty of it. It only gets better. You know? When they're, like, grown ass adults wandering around, you'd be like, yeah. You know, my dad used to give me a thousand sats a week   for just doing my chores around the house. And so that's why, you know, I own a fucking island now.  

[01:35:03] Unknown:

I have a string of islands.   Who knows? It might just be. It would be super cool, wouldn't it? In the one hand, I hate all the number go up stuff. On the other hand, I'm like, it's totally reasonable to assume that that is a strong possibility.   Sure. I sit in both camps. I'm like, I don't not believe these things. I just find the way that it's talked about to be a little bit gross and disingenuous   at times. Yeah.  

[01:35:30] Unknown:

Well, people are playing it like a lottery or like a a a horse race or some kind of thing, like sports gambling, when really it's just that idea of value being stored. You know what I mean? Like, we only know the way where, oh, yeah. When I earned and put $50 a week into a savings account   for ten years, and then I got to the end, I was like, oh, fuck. There's basil barely anything in here. I can't use this for much. Whereas Bitcoin, like, if you've been around Bitcoin a while, you forgot about it for a couple of years. Even if you didn't put anything in it for a while, you go back and you go, oh, wow. This is something I can use. This is something that's,  

[01:36:09] Unknown:

worth, reexploring here. Yeah. And if it allows people to,   be a little bit more free Yes. That's always the best thing that it's allowed me to step away from my fiat work, which means I can concentrate on this. I hear so many stories of people who are close to us through the show   who are saying, like,   yeah. I was doing this business, so, you know, I'm managing to cut down by 50%. I don't need to. I just deal with the customers that I like. You know? I'm I'm scaling back. I'm having more time to myself to be able to look after myself. And, like, that's where where I look at it, and I'm like, that's   really fucking cool. That makes me really happy when I I hear from people that I care about, like, oh, it's unlocked   some time and some freedom for me. Or, like,   I couldn't do this thing   before, but now there's an unlock because I can pay for this surgery or, like, something that we needed for the family or whatever it is. Like, that's what it's all about. Totally. It could just be that way that,   anyone who's in and around this   for the next ten, fifteen, twenty years just has more options and, like, can be more creative. And if it does that, that's that's pretty sick. Yeah. I totally agree. And that's what really freedom boils down to is your options. You know? So  

[01:37:24] Unknown:

the more you have, the more free you are. Yeah.  

[01:37:28] Unknown:

Well, listen, mate. It's   quite late here. I've been, been on the grind for a while, so I think we can probably wrap things up. But Sure. It's been really cool getting to know you. Likewise, man. I love what you guys are doing with the show. I loved Lorian's little rant today that I was listening to,   the pricking of the baby's fur and all that Yeah. Nonsense and stuff. I was listening to that, and I was like, yeah. Fuck. Soon she said about I've got a letter. I was like, I fucking hate letters. I know this stuff.  

[01:37:57] Unknown:

Bad.   It's like it always matters. You hear go, I got a letter in the mail today, you go, oh,   shit.  

[01:38:04] Unknown:

Yeah. I was like, what's this shit gonna be then? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That that did make me laugh. But, yeah, like, I love what you guys are doing. It's cool. It's really nice to see, like, husband and wife having fun and, like, doing this show together. That's fucking awesome. And Thanks, man. Yeah. We have a lot of fun with it for sure. I love what you've got here too. I love that, you know, you're always coming at it raw and honest and,  

[01:38:27] Unknown:

you know, that   I think we're kinda doing the same thing and proving that you don't really have to be some kind of a techno wizard computer science major to No. Care about things like money and Bitcoin and,   the value exchange and and honest   information and privacy and stuff like that. Like, it's not this rocket science   proposition.   It really is accessible to anybody on the planet, which is a very special  

[01:38:52] Unknown:

thing that we probably haven't had a lot of throughout human history, if any. So thanks for doing what you do too. Well, I would suggest to anyone who's listening to this and hasn't already checked it out, go to bowl after bowl. We'll put a link in the show notes. Definitely go and check it out, and I'm sure we'll keep in touch, mate. It's been good getting to know you. Awesome. Yeah. Likewise, man. Happy to come back on any time.   I really hope you enjoyed that. If you enjoyed hearing from Sir Spencer as much as I enjoyed speaking to him, you can check out the Bowl After Bowl podcast   on your favorite podcasting app, ideally podcasting two point o. I'd also like to let everyone know that the website,   ungovernablemisfits.com,   has just been updated. Mister Crown has been working really hard on that.  

So if you haven't already checked it out, go and have a look. Give us some feedback,   positive or negative. See if you can break it, see if you can fuck it up, if anything is not working. Just let us know. We want it to be the best it can be. We also are not currently offering any clothing.   We've had a bit of a glitch in terms of the actual printing and sending and everything. So we're working really hard to get that up and running properly again. We'd rather not send anything out than have problems. So give us a couple of weeks. We're on it. We're working on it. You'll be able to order again soon. Thanks for your patience. If you do want something, you can always message us, and we'll put you on a waiting list. Thanks for all the support, and stay on Governable.