The Bitcoin Brief is a biweekly program hosted by Max and QnA that delivers the latest updates and news on Bitcoin and freedom-oriented technologies, keeping you informed and in the loop.
AOB
AOB
- Max on his travels
- Meshconomy
- Q internet woes
- Prime Early Access is now closed
- DOJ ends crypto enforcement unit + regulation by prosecution
- Phoenix is back in the US
- Trump blocks IRS reporting for 'DeFi brokers'
- Samourai/Privacy discussion at MIT
- OP Next conference last weekend
- LN Bits v1.0
- BTCPay 2.1.0
- Robosats v0.7.6 alpha
- Mempool 3.2.0
- Mempool taproot tree visualizer
- Bisq 2.1.7
- Breez launches Misty Breez
- Frostr
- Fedimints are coming to Start9
- Zeus teases ecash support
- Electrum adds Nostr capabilities
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[00:00:04]
Unknown:
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.
[00:00:11] Unknown:
Bitcoin. Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,XYZ. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cake Wallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Good morning.
[00:02:46] Unknown:
Hello, sir. Good morning. How are you doing today?
[00:02:49] Unknown:
Very well. Well, actually, it's my morning, and it's your afternoon.
[00:02:53] Unknown:
I was gonna actually say good afternoon. Yeah. But I didn't wanna give away too much information. But, yeah. You've been on your travels.
[00:03:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I've, finally left the shithole they call The UK.
[00:03:06] Unknown:
I'm gone. And then there was one.
[00:03:10] Unknown:
I'm gonna chip away at you, mate. I'm gonna get you to leave that fucking place. They don't deserve you. They really don't. Are you settling in okay? Yeah. I'm getting there. Good. It's a big change, but I'm happy to be leaving. It's weird, actually, because my missus has said a couple of times now where, like, we've been out and about and, like, with the kids and stuff, and I've just been chatting to people. And she's like, you would never do that in The UK. I was like, what? She's like, you would never speak to a person in The UK. Like, you would never open up or have any sort of conversations. And then I, like, thought about it, and I was like, yeah.
Towards the end of being in The UK, every time that the letterbox went or I saw a brown envelope or anytime anyone asked me anything personal, I felt like I was in proper Big Brother 1984 being watched, being hunted, and I started getting all paranoid and just not enjoying life. And immediately once I've left, there's pro like, nothing's fucking perfect. There's problems. There's different stuff, whatever, but I've immediately gone.
[00:04:19] Unknown:
I don't feel hunted, which is a nice feeling. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's definitely great to hear. So do you think that most of the change, is that is that a change in you and that you that you feel happier where you are now, or is it more of what you just said, like, the actual location of just being in The UK and all the the joys that I've written with it? Yeah. It was being in The UK and the joys that come along with it and government
[00:04:44] Unknown:
interfering with fucking everything and the tax man just constantly raping you. It just felt not good once I've left that behind and not feeling hunted and not or kind of feeling a bit like a prisoner there, like it was just not a good feeling. So yeah it's immediately just made me like, okay this is not like an oppressive shitty situation like it was before. So it's good and I'm sat on the balcony recording this as well, so you probably hear some birds tweeting. It's very nice. Yeah I did notice those in the background. That,
[00:05:15] Unknown:
does add a nice little aura to to the background. Yeah
[00:05:19] Unknown:
I thought it might. Obviously I miss a few people like you and Kofi and Gun and others who are in The UK. Outside of that we're all good. Once you get a bit more settled, they'll have to organize a lads trip out there or something. Oh that would be good. That would be really good. I'll take you skiing.
[00:05:38] Unknown:
Nice. Okay.
[00:05:42] Unknown:
What's going on in The UK then, mate? Anything, exciting?
[00:05:45] Unknown:
I wouldn't say anything exciting. No. Yeah. No. There's nothing, major to kind of write home about at the moment. Me personally, you may or may not have seen. I know you've you've had, some patchy Internet connectivity lately, so you may not have seen. But, so did I. That's the story is. My headset's been giving me massive headaches. It was really weird. Like, last Thursday, my phone and my wife's phone wouldn't do anything. It was like it was shown it it was connected to the local network, the Wi Fi. Mhmm. But it it came up with a little exclamation mark and just said no Internet connectivity. So that's strange. And at the exact same time, like, other things were working. Like, my Linux machine was fine. I could load any website, watch YouTube, whatever. Perfect. No Internet problems.
The TV was working. That was on the Wi Fi. And then randomly across the day, different devices would just drop out where they just wouldn't load anything that required the Internet. Then the phone would kick back into life, and that would be fine. So it was really, like, sporadic where Random devices were just dropping off the well, they weren't even dropping off the network. They were still connected, but they wouldn't do anything. I've said this many times before, but networking is my boogeyman. I just fucking despise any Yeah. Routers, Internet, and all that sort of stuff because Yeah. I don't know. I've just never taken the time to fully understand how it all works. Like, I can get by with the basics.
So I phoned my ISP thinking that it was a problem with the router that was randomly, like, blocking certain devices, and they they did some troubleshooting over the phone. And to be honest, the the guy that I spoke to was even more clueless than I was. Yeah. Exactly. We we ended up with, yeah. Fuck it. We'll just send you a new router. In fairness to them, that turned up the next day. Plugged it in, exact same problem. So phoned them up again. Basically, the response I got from those guys was, well, we've done a speed test on your house, and everything's working fine. So, yeah, you're on your own. And I'm like, hang on a minute. I'm paying for a service here, but I you know, it's not working on all my devices. Like, what the fuck am I paying you for? Mhmm. But I can kinda see their viewpoint where I I'd openly told them what some of my machines are working.
And and some of them are the speed test is fine. I was getting, I can't remember, like, 50, two hundred gigs per second or whatever it was, the expected speed. And they were like, yeah. Basically, well, we sent you a new router. It's not that. We know that you're getting a good connection to the house the house. So, that's all we need to do. Goodbye. So I was like, fuck. I don't know what to do. And, obviously, I work remote, so, like, Internet connectivity is a big thing for me. Like, I need to be connected all the time to be able to work. So I asked the, the big brains on Twitter and Nosta, and basically, I got loads of responses. So very thankful to to anybody that did come back. And 99% of people were saying, oh, yeah. It's a DNS problem.
It's great if you know how to fuck around with that sort of stuff, but I don't. So by the time all of these responses come through and it was clear that there was, you know, all of the people that knew about this sort of stuff were saying, yeah, definitely DNS. A few people sent me some steps to, like, change DNS servers and whatnot. But by the time they all come through, it was like Friday night and, it was just washed my hands a bit. I was like, you know what? I'll I'll spend you know, I'll give it some some attention over the weekend. Woke up on Saturday morning. Everything's been perfect since, and not a single That's weird. Nothing has gone wrong since, and I'm touching wood here. Didn't change a single thing. Didn't do any DNS properly. Didn't change like, the only thing that changed was the router. And after the new router was in, it was still fucking up for twenty four hours. And then all weekend up until today, it's been absolutely flawless. And I have no idea what went wrong or what went yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm happy that it's working, but it's just frustrating that I don't know what it was and what.
[00:09:33] Unknown:
I'm sure I've had a similar thing before, and then I think it was something to do with the VPN that I was using at the time. I can't remember what it was now. But Yeah. Well, that was my first thought, but then I was like, well, some of the devices that aren't connecting just don't use a VPN. Like, my Wi Fi
[00:09:48] Unknown:
doesn't use any of that sort of stuff. And for it to be kicking my phone off, which does you know, my phone's a Graphene phone that runs a VPN constantly, and her phone's an iPhone that doesn't run one. Like, it can't be the VPN side of things. Makes sense. Neither does the TV, and I don't have one at the router level. So it was a frustrating forty eight hours, and then now it works. And I've I've no idea how or why. It's a mystery. So if you lose me, that could be the reason.
[00:10:12] Unknown:
If well, if you lose me, it could be a similar reason because I've still got no broadband here. I've got a janky, weird setup that I've got because, the people came out were like we'd like they took my money and then they were like, oh, yeah. Like, we can't give you Internet. I was like, well, you're fucking happy to take my money, weren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to go through this process to, like, get that back. But basically, like, no. We can't get through these trees, and we we can't run it here, and this thing's overloaded, and that thing's and, whatever, like, bullshit. And I was just like, for fuck's sake. So I think I'm gonna have to get a star link. It's probably all the snow where you are, mate. It is. Yeah. It interferes with things. It's a pain in the ass, but That must be go. Trade offs, isn't it? It's all trade offs. Told you not to move to the Arctic Circle.
[00:10:57] Unknown:
Quick bit of, foundation news. The early access program for Passport Prime is now officially closed. Sold them all, which is awesome. So we yeah. Quick update or reminder that the early access program was your way to get hold of one of the first Passport Primes that roll off the production line, and we also gave you some benefits for being, you know, one of the the kind of early testers of a brand new device. So So we give we're gonna be giving you a free case, a free subscription to the the the Envoy Plus service, which has loads of kind of digital add ons, like storage on our server, etcetera, etcetera. And there's a few other add ons that we're gonna be announcing soon that are gonna be rolled into that. And, there was one other benefit, and it is eluding me now. But I'm gonna have to fact check that. So let me just,
[00:11:43] Unknown:
While you're, fact checking that, I would just mention that, John and mister Crown and basically everyone other than me in, Ungovernal Misfits has been working really hard this last few months, actually, introducing the new meshconomy box, which is now online on Ungovernmental Misfits. So anyone who hasn't already should go and check that out. We kept talking about people who are producing goods and services who are in the Bitcoin world and in the mesh to Dell saying, like, it's really difficult for anyone to actually market themselves and for people to actually make these sales and, like, make enough to continue doing what they're doing, which you see, like, these things pop up and then they go away. And it's a real shame. We decided, I don't know, it must have been like I think it was around the time I actually left my full time work. It was around then me and John were talking about it for ages. We're like, oh, we should really do something. Like, maybe we can use a bit of the reach from Ungovernable Misfits to, like, help make some of these sales so people put, like, a box together and people can buy these things. And, obviously, it's taken a while, but we wanna see these small producers survive, and we want people to be spending Bitcoin and actually using this thing. So we've got some people from the Meshedale who have made candles, coffee, stickers.
We've got more people joining as well. I don't know if Barn Jerk is I don't think Barn Jerk is in there yet. We just show him anyway. But, we're just trying to make it possible for people to sell goods and services for Bitcoin, raise a bit of awareness, and it's all really nice quality stuff. Otis Bit My Coffee, we've talked about loads on, on all the pods really, But John raves about it and so does everyone else who drinks it. And then homemade candles and, obviously, our Uncoverable Misfits stickers as well. So that's gonna be the first box. It's $39.99.
[00:13:39] Unknown:
So how does this work from a, I guess, a privacy perspective? I'm I'm guessing that you guys are collating this somewhere and and boxing up all these together. And then Yes. If I was a a customer, basically, I'd just be sharing payment and shipping information with one person to be able to get access to all of those products.
[00:13:56] Unknown:
Yeah. That's right. Which is another cool side benefit. Yeah. Exactly. And it means they don't have to run their own stuff. Like, you might have heard Barn bleating about BTC pay server and lightning problems and all this sort of stuff and, like, trying to run a shop. Others experience the same. We're already running a shop. Like, we're already doing it. We already have the problems that come along with it. So it's not a massive lift for us to do it. So, yeah, I just think it's really cool. We're gonna keep adding things on there. But if you wanna help support other people in the Bitcoin world and you wanna actually use your Bitcoin and try these things out, then go and check it out. Very cool. Yeah. So back to Passport Prime, the one I was forgetting the additional bonus was an extended two year warranty as well. No goobles kind of you know, we understand that these are
[00:14:40] Unknown:
the first device off the off the line. There may be, you know, issues. Obviously, we're we hope that there isn't, but there'll be a kind of no questions asked two year warranty if if it and when any of these initial devices do have any problems, of course. Right. So, yeah, that early access program is sold out. We've sold them all, and we're gonna be shipping them ASAP. We'll be providing another shipping update in the coming weeks. But if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, shit. I wanted to get one. Like, you you can still purchase Passport Prime. You can still put down a $49 reservation to join the queue to be one of the first to get one of the the kind of next lot devices after we ship those, first one thousand early access program. And those are estimated to ship in, q two of this year, so not that far away. And, also, it's just a $49 completely refundable reservation. If you change your mind after you see the the initial reviews or anything like that, then, you know, it's kind of a no risk kind of reservation, there as well. And, obviously, when we get closer to shipping that batch of, of passport primes, we'll obviously be contacting you for the the remaining, balance, additional to the $49.
[00:15:48] Unknown:
Is it possible I know this is a massive ask from a Bitcoin company, but is it possible to make that payment using Bitcoin, or do I have to use, like, Stripe or some sort of, like,
[00:16:01] Unknown:
Fiat rail? I I sense this might be a loaded question. The force is strong in this one. Yes. Absolutely. We take Bitcoin. We would we prefer it if you pay us in Bitcoin, but, yeah, you can pay in fiat as well if you want to. But do you wanna tell the listeners why you you're asking that question?
[00:16:22] Unknown:
Me and John chat on Dorsey quite heavily in our last episode. Recently, he's been going around saying, you know, the Bitcoin network is gonna die if it's not used and all this kind of stuff. So, obviously, I thought, well, you know, I really like this guy. I'm gonna go and, order some hardware that he makes. I got my custodial lightning wallet out and, went to go and pay. And I realized that actually you can't. You can only pay in fiat, which I thought was really weird because it's very mixed messaging, isn't it? It is somewhat. Yes. Yeah. Very strange.
[00:16:55] Unknown:
It yeah. I just can't I don't I don't understand that. I can't wrap my head around it. Like, he has a payments company that integrates Bitcoin. He's given millions in funding to Bitcoin and Bitcoin adjacent technologies like Nostra and stuff like that. He clearly bought in. He's along for the ride, so to speak. Why not just plug in a fucking BC pay server for these hardware wallets? It just makes no sense.
[00:17:22] Unknown:
It doesn't make any sense unless you get all conspiracy theorist on it, which I'm not gonna bother doing. But, yeah, it's weird. I just thought it was funny. I just thought I'd make light of that.
[00:17:33] Unknown:
It's very odd. At least. Yeah. Indeed. Alright. Should we hit the news, mate? Yes. Let's do it. Starting off with a a pretty big one. The US justice department ends crypto enforcement unit and regulation by prosecution. The justice department has directed federal prosecutors not to target virtual currency exchanges, mixing and tumbling services, and, quote, offline wallets for their end users' actions or unintentional regulatory violations. So this is this is pretty big news that they they're basically saying, Lochner, you can't do that anymore. And, it's, you know, nice to see a bit of common sense coming out of the new administration.
So a bit of background, I guess, in the previous administration, you know, under Biden, the DOJ basically was kind of running a mock, and trying to prosecute people for doing, quote, unquote, unlawful things, by way of kind of passing new regulations and laws, after they prosecuted that that those people. And the the new administration has looked has basically said, look. He can't freaking do that. Like, that's probably against the law. So this is this is pretty big news, and it's kind of, yeah, it is looking at a bit of a positive. Obviously, I say that somewhat tongue in cheek because as we know with any administration, these types of things can spin on a on a dime, you know, from one day to the next. But for somebody that works in the industry and for somebody that's got a lot of friends that work in the industry, this is definitely a you know, it provides a bit more clarity as to, or gives a bit more confidence on those people that kind of are building in and around this this type of, industry. Would that not mean that they'd have to throw out the samurai case? Because Good. Yeah. I'm glad you said that because that that was the next thing I was gonna say. There's been a a couple of third party takes on this.
You won't be surprised to hear that Lola Leads from The Rage has got a great faithfulness, which will, of course, be linked into into the show notes. The short answer is we don't know, but probably not. Peter Van Valkenburg, apologies for that, Peter. He's got a a good tweet about it. It says, we'll have to wait and see what happens to Tornado Cash and Samura wallet product prosecutions. But the memo from the deputy attorney general yesterday is right on target. We should be going after bad guys, not the developers of good tools that bad guys have to, which couldn't hit the nail more on the head if I if, you know, if I tried to say it myself. Yeah. Yeah. To kind of bring us back down to earth a bit just so we don't get too bullish on this type of change. Again, I'll I'll reference the Lol Elite's, take on this, basically, where she points out a couple of, quotations in here where the DOJ is kind of intentionally vague in certain parts of it.
So there's some wording around they will continue to hold accountable individuals who use digital assets in furtherance of other criminal conduct, such as fentanyl trafficking, terrorism cartels, organized crime, and human trafficking and smuggling. And she makes a good comment like the open question appears to be whom does the DOJ consider to be an individual who uses digital assets in furtherance of those types of things? Like Yeah. That's a good point. It's it's it's again, it leaves it open to interpretation. So this is very much not a a slam dunk, and it and it and it's yes. Yeah. It open to interpretation, but it should definitely be seen as a as a step in the right direction, as a bit more clarity that, you know, you're less likely as a wallet developer now, as of today, to be targeted by some regulation that doesn't yet exist, because of the Yeah. Taking a dislike into something that you may have said or done. Yeah. It's just like a narrative shift, isn't it, really? Like Yeah. Yeah. At the very least.
[00:21:42] Unknown:
It's not we think you guys are the scum of the earth, and we're coming after you with everything that we've got. And, like, don't you dare try and have privacy and freedom because we will not accept it. It's a bit more like, okay. We're slightly more on your side at least. Like, we're not we're not hunting you specifically. Yeah. Yeah. You know it wasn't that long ago that everything, every time we recorded almost, because we're doing it monthly then, every time I was like this is getting worse, like it's it's getting worse, it's getting worse. Like it was it was really starting to be like oh my god if they get another administration like, we're pretty fucked here.
[00:22:19] Unknown:
And now it's, like, looking a lot brighter, so take the wins. Definitely. Yeah. It's nice to see one of the three letter agencies having their wings clipped a little bit. It definitely seem like, under the Biden administration, they were getting a little bit too big for their boots and and the raised a bit away with it. And we've already seen the anti chilling effect to this. One of the big headlines around the when all of this kicked off, particularly with the samurai case and with the tornado cache, like, part of the the chilling effect where developers were either stopping developing or pulling out of The US. Big headlines around that one was Phoenix Wallet, one of the, you know, most popular light self custody lightning wallets, if not the most popular.
They pulled out of the because of all the shit that was going on, and that was just what, you know, the sip of the iceberg for the chilling effect. They've already announced that they're coming back to The US off the back of this. Okay. Which is great news for for those in The US that, you know, wanna interact with Lightning but wanna do so in a in a noncustodial way, without having to do all that channel management. So, you know, Phoenix, great job. So this is a win for for Lightning users in in The US. More, US regulation news, unfortunately. I hate talking about it, but, you know, it it is a big part of of the narrative at the moment. Older Orange Man assigned a resolution blocking the IRS reporting rule for DeFi brokers.
So I can't believe I'm saying this, but, more positive news coming out of the the Trump administration. On the twenty seventh December December last year, the US Department of Treasury issued last minute regulations establishing reporting requirements for, quote, trading front end service providers involved in digital asset transactions. Right. These regulars were once again created under the Biden administration infrastructure. Oh, sorry. It's part of the Biden administration's infrastructure investment and jobs act and aim to crack down on cryptocurrency users who may have been failing to pay their taxes.
Reporting requirements were set to take effect in 2026 and required here's the here's the kicker here. Required noncustodial services to file a form ten ninety nine and follow the same reporting rules as security brokers and custodial digital asset trading platform operators even though they differ from traditional businesses. So it was essentially, it was looking like noncustodial services would have to report, file tax reports on their users. Just like Alright. Somebody like Coinbase would or Yeah. Cracker or something like that. So it was it was, you know, a shit show, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, last Thursday, I believe, Trump has signed that the resolution that basically repeals this and says no. It's, it's not gonna happen. There's a quote here, from, Republican Mike Carey. Don't know who he is, but the defibroker rule needlessly hindered American innovation, infringed on the privacy of everyday Americans, and was set to overwhelm the IRS with an inflow of new filings that it doesn't have the infrastructure to handle during tax season. By repealing this misguided rule, president Trump and congress have given the IRS an opportunity return its focus to the duties and obligations it already owes American taxpayers instead of creating a new series of bureaucratic hurdles.
I thank president Trump for signing his important bill into law and crypto, Cesar, Sachs for his leadership in supporting America's continued place as the global leader in emerging in the emergence emerging
[00:25:51] Unknown:
crypto industry. Can you imagine them trying to keep on top of, like, thousands of traders, like, jumping in from, like, Dogecoin to Poohcoin to Yams. You you like, all this different shit, yielding and yamming and whatever else it is and them trying to wrap their head around it. It would,
[00:26:12] Unknown:
probably actually collapse them. Maybe it'd be a good thing. Well, you say that, but most of those degens, like, they're gonna be doing that on a regulated exchange anyway, and they'll be susceptible to all these tax laws. Like, the the big win here is is the fact, like, people like Auset Foundation who run a a noncustodial wallet like Envoy or, Phoenix Wallet, where we don't collect and we we do not want to ever collect user data, and tie it to a wallet, this regulation would have said that we would be left with no choice but to do that because we would be one of these DeFi front ends. And to be able to, you know, operate in The US, we'd have to file a ten ninety nine on all of our users. And that would mean that we need to know who all of our users are. You know, naturally, we do not wanna do that. So it's yeah. This is this is a big positive again for somebody that that works in the industry, particularly for those American companies.
This means that they don't have to do all of this and, you know, add surveillance on their users and irrespective of all of the, you know, the additional load on the onto the IRS that, you know, we've just mentioned would would have been a complete shit show. Good. Well, this is all exciting news. I like it. Yeah. Kicking off with the positive. Long may it continue. The last couple of pieces of news I just wanted to point out, there's a couple of, conferences over in The US in the last weekend, one of which was the MIT Bitcoin Expo. And, there's a very interesting sit down chat with Frank Korver from Bitcoin Magazine, and he sits down with I think his name is Shores Provost Mhmm. Who is a core contributor and all around just smart guy.
They had a sit down chat where they talk about the latest and greatest in terms of the prosecutions ongoing with Tornado Cash and some real wallet developers and all of the implications on the industry. Basically, all the stuff that we've been talking about, but they you know, it's just a a cool little, fireside chat that is a good, you know, can act as a good quick catch up and and Mhmm. Bring you speed and keep you abreast of, you know, what this could mean one way or the other for the industry. So I just wanted to shine a light on that, and, obviously, that will be linked in in the show notes as well. And finally, the the other, conference, if you wanted to get your your turbo nerd on, was Up Next, which I believe was in The US. Maybe, I think it was at Sailors, place.
It was a technical conference called Up Next where they're basically talking about the latest and greatest in Bitcoin scaling. There'll be two links in the show notes, of the livestream. I think they're about it's a full day livestream essentially covering all of the talks, panels, and guest speakers, about eight hours each. So, I don't know whether this counts towards the forty podcast hours per week, but, there's sixteen hours catered for if you wanna sit down and watch all of it. We'll check-in with Rod Palmer and Grease. Probably best to listen to it because I've got the stream up right now, and it looks like it they filmed it on a potato. So it's definitely not Haikyuu.
[00:29:14] Unknown:
Any more news, or are we into the boosts? Let's hit the boosts, mate. Okay. First up, we've got Rod Palmer from Bugle News, hashtag forty hours per week with 50,000 sats. Get the fuck out of The UK. I assume he's saying that to you, mate, because I'm already gone. Yeah. Seems to be. I'm the only one left.
[00:29:38] Unknown:
Interestingly, I am getting the fuck out of The UK temporarily to go to Vegas, for the big couple weeks, with with the foundation team. I don't know whether I'm allowed to publicly say this, so I'll need to check this with him before, before this goes live, but I'm I'm pretty sure that it's public knowledge that him and the the Bugle guys are putting on a an event in Vegas. Oh, okay. They've they've graciously asked me to to be part of a panel, I think, or or a q and a session. No pun intended. So I'm just checking diaries and stuff at the moment. I haven't committed a %, but I'm doing everything I can to make sure I get out there because, What an honor. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I was, I was, taken aback. So, hopefully, all being well, we'll be meeting mister Palmer and the bugle theme. Late stage HODL with 10,000 SATs. Keep up the good work, boys. Thank you very much, sir.
[00:30:29] Unknown:
Chet with 10,021 SATs. Busy, busy, busy, homey. Still listen on my seventeen hour drives from Texas and what's k y? Kentucky, maybe? Kentucky. Texas and Kentucky.
[00:30:45] Unknown:
Seventeen hour drive. Yeah. That's dirty. That is dirty. How many this this is a tangent. On a seventeen hour drive, how many times do you reckon you'd have to stop for a piss?
[00:30:57] Unknown:
I can tell you because I used to do seventeen hour drives often. I would stop for a because I would always have, like, those big two liter bottles in the door bins, and I would just smash through coffee and water. So I would say I'd probably stop for piss on average once every hour and a half to two hours. You didn't fancy just filling the bottle back up, that two liter bottle when it was empty? I did it occasionally. Like, if I was in Central London driving around, there's, like, nowhere to stop and piss. Yeah. Occasionally, I'd either depending on what van I was in, I'd either go into the back of the van and, like, piss in there. So I wasn't doing it in, like, a residential area, or, yeah, like, piss in the front. But it would it would depend because, obviously, a lot of the time it was countryside, so it was just, like, pull into the side of the road, take a piss, jump back in. Gotta stay hydrated, mate. Indeed you have. Let us know, chat. How many times do you stop and piss on a seventeen hour drive? We'd love to know.
[00:31:54] Unknown:
Alright. Next up, we've got Otto, and he's responding to the chat we had about unlocking Dojo on start nine. He's boosted with 10,010 subs. And he just said, thank you. It was great to be a part of it. Thank you for your contribution, sir. Yeah. Thank you, mate. Thank you to everyone involved in that. It's a big step. Definitely.
[00:32:12] Unknown:
Anonymous with 6,666 SATs. I've tried to use Nosta, but doesn't seem to be very intuitive. Is there a guide slash primer out there on how to make it useful? You're anonymous, aren't you? You've gotta be. I know. Such a perfect plug.
[00:32:32] Unknown:
I promise.
[00:32:33] Unknown:
From the bottom of my heart, this is not me.
[00:32:35] Unknown:
Okay. We believe you. Yeah. I think there is one. Queue, have you heard of any out there?
[00:32:41] Unknown:
Yes. Anonymous. If you want the the perfect Nosta onboarding tool and primer, head to hellonosta.xyz, and you'll find a multitude of guides there, including how to use, Primal as a as a simple onboarding client and then more kind of slightly technical stuff around what Nostra is, the different type of facets of it, and how you can use it, and why it's cool and useful. So, yeah, check that one out. Hello Nostra.xyz. Panjo with 0.014, and he's responding to Bitcoin Breeze 63, which I presume is the last one. I've kinda lost track of what number we're on. Track. Yeah. He said, why the hate on all botch ups? I run it alongside my VPN all the time. It It doesn't need to be set as your VPN service to connect and forward traffic proxy to port nine zero five o.
Oh, well, I I say that, and I think I said this when we were talking about it. It's been a long time since I've actually tried Autobot, and That's probably because I was scarred by how terrible it used to be. Yeah. What was the context that we were talking about it? I think I was actually slagging off a sponsor, which is should be good work.
[00:33:52] Unknown:
I think I was saying I really like to see in Cake that they have the Tor integration so you don't have to run all bot. Possibly.
[00:34:00] Unknown:
Yeah. Thanks for letting us know, Andrew, that you can run it outside. It's like it doesn't have to take over the VPN thing. But with that said, like, if you're a Bitcoin wallet, just build in a Tor library and just do it natively. Yeah. Please. Aren't they stealing yours? Isn't that how it's working?
[00:34:14] Unknown:
Who? Cake? Yeah. I believe they it's not well, yeah. They It is stealing. Listen. Open source is not about being able to use each other's stuff. Alright? That's theft. Meat basket. And cloning. Cake, you cloning cunts. Don't be so disgusting.
[00:34:29] Unknown:
Do that to us.
[00:34:33] Unknown:
Yeah. I think they're using your Yes. That's correct. Yeah so coming soon. Yeah and to be fair actually with the Orbot thing, I also haven't used it in years. I just remember using Orbot and then what was it? What's the is it Electris? No no that's fuck. I can't remember now. I remember trying to use that, and, like, every time I was trying to do a transaction, it wasn't working, it wasn't connecting, and it was just dropping. And it was an absolute fucking nightmare. And I think that kind of gave me PTSD. I was like, I'm never using this shit again, but maybe it's good now. I used to use it with BlueWallet a lot, and, yeah, I had similar
[00:35:09] Unknown:
experiences. Okay. FOMO chronic 1,001 SATs just sent us a love heart. Thank you. Oh,
[00:35:15] Unknown:
we love you too, mate. Baked potato. I've got nothing smart to say. Here's some sats. Thank you. Great name. Yeah. Really good.
[00:35:26] Unknown:
Bubba with 1,000 sats. The way y'all prattle on can be fun. I'm not saying it was this time, but keep on prattlin'.
[00:35:36] Unknown:
Thanks, mate. We'll never stop prattling. Chad Farrow with 333 sets. Move everything to Noster so you can own your own data. And by you, I mean six relays other people own. Oh, Chad Farrow. Now, Chad,
[00:36:00] Unknown:
I know you're trying to trigger me here, but you I know for a fact that you're smart enough to know that that's not the truth. So for the onlookers, I'm going to say that it's very easy to download all of your data at any time from any Relay or just run your own Relay. I run one on my phone so that it backs up all of my notes and shit automatically. And I've also got one on my start night as well. But, yes, Chad, you are kind of correct because most people right now are not gonna do that. So they are kinda locked a little bit by just trusting a multitude of
[00:36:34] Unknown:
six to 20 different relays. Okay. Well, I appreciate that comment because I really like it when you get wound up about North Star. I like it when you get wound up about Nosta, and I especially like it when Ben Gunn gets wound up about Nosta. Like, two absolute Nosta shills, just only takes a little nudge. And you're like, no. No. No. No. It's just fucking amazing. Trust me. It's good fun. I liked it.
[00:36:58] Unknown:
I will sign off, that. The reality is most people have, like, 20 relays, and the the likelihood that most of them all sent to you at the same time is kind of zero. That is fair. That is fair. But you did go under my skin a little bit there, Chad.
[00:37:13] Unknown:
Well done. Pies with 420 sets. Let's fucking go. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. USA, USA, USA, little American flag, laughing face. And then back again with another 420 sats. V for v, hashtag forty hours per week. America equals gold. England equals shit. Didn't he say that he was gonna stop that?
[00:37:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I think well, no. He wasn't he whining about us not talking about him enough? Maybe that's why Oh, maybe. So he can Maybe.
[00:37:55] Unknown:
Yeah. He gets a mention. But I agree with you, mate. You're not shitting on me anymore. So,
[00:38:01] Unknown:
Oh, okay. Like that, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once I'm gone, I'm gone, mate. That's it. B is boosted with 400 sats. No message.
[00:38:10] Unknown:
B t c onboard. Hashtag l enhance or CTV with 300 sats.
[00:38:19] Unknown:
And then finally oh, yeah. And that BTC on board's comment was crooks is amazing because we were talking about that last time, weren't we? The Oh, yeah. The kind of DIY signing device. Mhmm. And then finally, thank you to Pojan Meeze with, thirteen thousand six hundred SAT streamed. Thank you, mate. With sick 1,620 SATs and with 910 SATs streamed. Thank you very much, guys. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Right. Updates and releases? Let's do it. Oh. We're onto a big one. LNBits version one. Wow. Stable, hardened, and production ready. That has been a while in the in the making, hasn't it? This is similar to to the way samurai used to do it, wasn't it? Where Yeah. Like 0.999
[00:39:10] Unknown:
v. 9.
[00:39:14] Unknown:
Yeah. So LMBits has been in public beta for what seems like the entire time that I've been in and around Bitcoin. Wonderful, wonderful projects. Great team behind them. You know, some of our good friends have been contributors and worked there and stuff. So, yeah, great to see that they finally come out with, you know, it's officially out of beta, and they have a a version one product. After five years and over 6,000 commits, LMBits has reached the momentous milestone. LMBits version one is officially here. So congratulations to Ben Gunn and the team. Ben Gunn? Not Ben Gunn. Sorry.
[00:39:50] Unknown:
Ben Ark. Ben Gunn's done fuck all for them.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
Additionally, and, you'll love this one, it now offers WebSocket payments, support for Nosta Wallet Connect Oh, thank god. The option for Nosta or OAuth login, and improved admin and developer tools amongst much more. Amazing. Very cool. And, of course, you can run this on all of the popular node software. So it's just a one click install. BTC pay server version 2.1 has now been released, including a new multi sig experience, the acceleration tool. So they've improved RBF and CPFP, child pays for parents, for those of you that want to speed up your transactions that are stuck in a mempool. Although, having said that, it's pretty impossible to get your transaction stuck in a mempool at the moment. Yeah. I was gonna say.
Yeah.
[00:40:46] Unknown:
But it's been nice to me because I've had to make loads of transactions, and I'm just like, this is lovely. This is really nice.
[00:40:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Literally, the I was talking to the honest Earth the other day, and the only thing that's giving any sort of volume in, in the mempool at the moment is some d gen shit that's unwinding. Okay. What it was called, Let me just check my signal messages with him. It was, Babylon unstaking continues to account for a significant proportion of all Bitcoin transactions, even hitting 50% on the April 11. I've no idea what Abalone Unstaking is, but, thank you to the Beaten for Yeah. Thanks, guys. Topping themselves. Thanks for keeping us going. Yeah. So back to BT pay, new integrations with, the new version of Shopify.
Also a new integration with Ghost, the the popular kind of self hosting blogging service. So that's pretty cool. You know, we'll power content creators and publishers and stuff to accept Bitcoin donations natively. So there's, like, a native connection now with a a BTP. Pretty cool. And they've also given, Monero its own kind of, plugin now so that I believe, you might know better than me here. But, I believe it was a bit of a custom thing before to kind of have a little bolt on to Monero and any other altcoins that you wanted on your BCP server.
[00:42:17] Unknown:
They did a load of dev work off their own backs to make that happen. So me and Seth covered it a little bit in I think it was, like, maybe two episodes ago. But, yeah, he was just saying a big thank you to them because, obviously, they didn't have to do that. The Monero community was trying to get funding together to make it possible.
[00:42:35] Unknown:
Sweet. Nice. Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on this is, click the link in the show notes for this release and look at the video that they did alongside the release. It's a an AI generated onwards. It's pretty good, actually. It's, like, got it's got rockstar dev. And when they're talking about multisig, they've, like, multiplied him, and there's, like, loads of him walking around with his mask and stuff. It's pretty funny. This I tell you what, this AI stuff, like, I've been sleeping on it. Like, the video generation stuff and the the design stuff that you can do is getting pretty fucking wild.
[00:43:06] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. It's fucking amazing. I wish I had more time to play around with it. Yeah. I I saw a a post this morning actually that was comparing
[00:43:14] Unknown:
The remember do you remember one of the very first AI generated images sorry, videos that came out was, Will Smith Will Smith eating spaghetti. Yeah. And that was two years ago, and then they compared it with one you can generate today. And it like, the the one from today literally looks like it's Will Smith that somebody filmed it, you know, with a high res camera. Doesn't matter. Doesn't that? One from two years ago was, like, an absolute abomination. Yeah.
[00:43:42] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's, like, amazing
[00:43:44] Unknown:
and scary. It's getting to the point now where you can't tell the difference between what's real and what's not. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. That's, I guess, one of the the downsides of, the proliferation of this sort of stuff is fake shit just,
[00:43:59] Unknown:
well, proliferates much more easily. But maybe it can work the other way as well because it's like, well, we have video evidence of you robbing this bank. You're like, that's not me. It's AI. That is a very good point. Yeah. We've got video evidence. Well, you can't really use that because it kinda works both ways.
[00:44:16] Unknown:
Yeah. Next on the list, we got Robosats version zero point seven point six alpha. And you you're gonna love this one, Max. Coordinator rating over NoSTA. Oh, yeah. Oh, baby. This update includes a beta version of coordinator rating via NoSTA, new messages in the trade workflow to address common questions, and a requirement for submitting contact method a contact method in dispute flows. So it seems as though, the the shift towards using Nostra as kind of a connectivity glue on, Robosats continues. Mempor version 3.2 has been released.
This one includes support for v three transactions and the display of anchor outputs. We've got a new UTXO bubble chart. Users will find a new UTXO bubble chart on the address page providing visual insights into into unspent transaction outputs. That's pretty useful. We've also got, datum miner tags to identify runestone messages and inscriptions, package broadcast feature for sending transaction packages, Stratum job data visualizations for better understanding of mining job details. So this looks pretty similar to, do you remember us talking about Orange Surf's tool, Grid, where he was fostering Antpool and friends, etcetera. Or Yeah. You can whoever you want together. So it looks similar to that where you can see the pools that are using similar or identical mining templates as well. So that's a pretty cool, tool to have, on the dashboard.
Additional labels for Taproot Multisig stuff, transaction and PSBT preview feature. A new transaction and PSBT preview feature aids in verifying transaction details before completion.
[00:46:08] Unknown:
That's I'm gonna have to test that one. While we're on this, did you listen to my annoying, voice messages the other day?
[00:46:16] Unknown:
I listened to it once and then made a mental note to revisit it when I wasn't distracted, and I did not do
[00:46:25] Unknown:
Any thoughts on them, or have they just completely exited your mind?
[00:46:29] Unknown:
Did you wanna give me a quick recap?
[00:46:31] Unknown:
Yeah. So the the reason that triggered that in my mind was, like, verifying address details. I realized that the way that you can verify an address on the passport is really nice. We've talked about that a lot. Like, it's a really nice feature. But when I'm sending not to myself, when I'm sending somewhere else Yeah. Obviously, I go through and it says verify that you're sending to this address and I scroll through and I'm like, yep. That's the right one. You've got it in, like, large lettering, smaller lettering, like, it's easy to see. It's, like, easy to verify it. Yep. That is who I'm sending it to. And then it goes to the next thing. It says something about, like, this is the fees that you're using, which is, like, fuck all at the moment. And then it says, change address.
And I was wondering, is there a way that where it says change address, there could be a little things where it says, like, verified coming back to this passport or, like, I don't know how you would word it, but basically that there's no interference where the change address could potentially not actually be your change address.
[00:47:36] Unknown:
I see. So to be clear, the device automatically checks that as part of every transaction. I'm sure it does. If it detects a change address that's not yours, it won't sign the transaction. So what your request here is just make that clearer.
[00:47:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Okay. Just for, like like, you know that, and, like, I kind of know that. I'm like, yeah. Obviously, like, they're not idiots. They're gonna fucking do things properly, properly and it's gonna come back to me. But it doesn't specifically say that. And so it's like, here's your change address. You're like, cool. That's a long string of letters and numbers. That means fuck all to me unless I like go on to Sparrow and go and check and like look through it manually before. Whatever. Like, I could I could do that On that screen when I'm looking at it, it's like, oh, that's very nice. There's a load of letters and numbers, but it doesn't actually give me any confidence if I'm a new user, especially that, like, I'm definitely getting that back because that's a concern.
Yeah. So I just thought, like, maybe it could just be worded like confirmed coming back to this master seed or this is your you own this address or I don't know how you worded it. I just I just thought that could be a nice little touch. No. I I agree. We could probably make that clearer to the user and and also tangential to that. We have an update pending
[00:48:49] Unknown:
on the Envoy side of things where when you're going through that sign in flow, you'll have, like, the transact you've scanned Envoy. You're reviewing the transact details on Passport. Envoy, at that point, is currently just showing an animated QR code. Yes. And it's waiting for you to hit the QR code scanner to then scan the signed transaction back from Passport to broadcast it. The update that will be coming out later this year will allow you to switch on that screen without losing your kind of place in the flow so that you can flick between here's the unsigned transaction in QR code format and another screen that shows you all of the transaction details, one of which would be the change address so that you can do a visual comparison if you wanted to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. So, yes, makes sense.
And, yeah, noted. There was another one as well while we were doing business on air. Yeah. There was another one. So when I was on my travels
[00:49:43] Unknown:
escaping The UK, I was really concerned about traveling with the passport. So I wiped it and did encrypted backup and then anyway, whatever. I don't have to go into the whole fucking thing, but I had to restore from an encrypted backup once I arrived. What was the flow? Oh, that was it. Yeah. So I kept one passport back in The UK just as, like, a disaster recovery backup thing in a secure location. I was like, I'll keep that until I know that I've got over here. And then when I next fly over, which is quite soon, then I wipe that one. When I was restoring on passport number two here, go through, it's like easy, put the, micro SD card in. I was like, yep. Lovely. Restore from from backup. Yep. Do you wanna use your six words, or do you wanna use your 20 digit code? 20 digit code. Bang, bang, bang. Put that in.
All really good. All really simple. And then there was just one little thing where it's like it says we're now going to make I can't remember exactly how it says it, but it's something like we're now going to make an encrypted backup on this micro SD. Your code will change, your 20 digit code, because it's a different device now. Mhmm. And I didn't wanna do that. I didn't wanna change my code. I didn't wanna do the backup. But the only thing it shows you on the screen is an arrow to go forward. Like, you must do this. There's no other option. So, like, I was like, fuck. I don't wanna do this. Anyway, so in the in the end, I was like, well, I have to do it. So I press next. And then I was like oh I wonder what happens if I press back after I've pressed next. And once I press back it said are you sure you don't want to do an encrypted backup?
We advise against this or something like that. And I was like yeah I'm sure. It's like you can't see it unless you go forward and then choose to go back, which isn't really an option, and then it comes up. Okay. I think I I think I'm understanding you. Are you running the latest firmware version out of interest? I believe so. I updated the day I left, so I would imagine so.
[00:51:46] Unknown:
Okay. Alright. Interesting. So you you as a user, what would you prefer there to to just be asked rather than guided or almost forced to?
[00:51:55] Unknown:
I would rather than it, like, effectively being forced, but not it's not actually because there is a way around it, but it's not obvious for it to say, your code will change if you do a backup now because you're on a new device. We suggest you do a backup. Click yes for backup or no to not backup. And, like, there to be two options on that first screen.
[00:52:18] Unknown:
It's, like, minor and petty and, like, it doesn't really matter because presumably, you can do that backup on that micro SD card, and then your other ones will still be there so you could still use them. Yeah. It it it has no bearing on any existing backups that you've got at all. So the fact that you're, you know, effectively being forced to create a new one, like, it doesn't overwrite the old one. It's completely additional. So Yeah. Even if you did it and and then never ever used it, like, it makes no difference whatsoever.
[00:52:47] Unknown:
I assumed that, but just me being me, like, ultra paranoid, I was like, I assume, but I'm it was like would have been like two, 03:00 in the morning your time. I was like, I'm not gonna message queue now, but I need to do this. I don't wanna overwrite it because that could be a problem. And then I thought, while I think of this as a user, I'll just let you know. So it was like, it could say, we suggest you do a backup. This will not override your previous backups or something like that. It's just just little bit of clarity just for retards who might think the same, and then it's like
[00:53:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Double sure and just puts people at ease because yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No. That's cool. This is this is the the type of user feedback that we, we love getting. So yeah. No. It makes perfect sense and should be a pretty trivial change. Just to cap off the Menpell updates, they've now added the address poisoning detection, into this latest release. So, I think we've already spoken about this. So just a quick reminder, it's basically, a a bit of a or an assistance against, this poisoning detection, which is basically an attacker somehow generates an address that appears similar to one of your addresses and then tricks you into sending it to theirs when you just do a a cursory visual check of the address, you're like, oh, yeah. First six and last six match my address. It's mine. When in reality, it's a similar looking address and buy by BT's.
When the mempool detects these and they they see similar addresses, they've got, like, a big purple warning now that says, it's it could be part of a poison attack. Nice. Okay. BISC version two point one point seven has been released. Highlights here. We have, a split pane has been introduced to adjust the balance of sizes between the offer book and the chat or offer list. The Bisc Easy Protocol has been improved to safeguard against triangular scams. With this enhancement, the buyer is now required to set the trade ID as the reason for payment when making the fiat transfer. The splash screen now shows displays for the loading process, for each necessary step. That's cool, actually. It tells you, like, how you're getting on.
Yeah. Lots more additional bug fixes and improvements as well. Quite a long list. So won't go through it, but, of course, the link will be in the show notes. Next up on the list, a bit of a a controversial one, and, keen to hear your take on this one, Max. The Breeze team have announced the launch of a new wallet called Misty Breeze. The headlines here is basically the new wallet is a simplified version that looks very similar to the existing Breeze wallet, But Misty Breeze, the new one, leverages their kind of, I believe it's called nodeless Breeze SDK, which essentially allows you to interact with the Lightning Network without actually directly using the Lightning Network.
The way in which they achieve this is via using the liquid side chain. And then anytime you receive or send, it's essentially under the hood is a submarine or atomic swap Right. Between, you know, the inbound lightning payment, and then you receive liquid Bitcoin, in your wallet, and that's what you actually hold. And then vice versa, when you send, liquid Bitcoin is removed from your wallet, and it is put through a swap service to then you know, the swap service would then pay the Lightning invoice on your behalf. So you never actually hold actual BTC in this wallet, and this is where some controversy has come from in the fact that, it was Shinobi actually that did a post about this one. And he he used the term self custody, which seemed to trigger quite a lot of people, basically. Mhmm. By saying, you you know, it's a self custody wallet, but you don't actually hold Bitcoin. You hold Liquid. Liquid Bitcoin, essentially.
Aside from my thoughts on liquid, which I'm sure we're we're gonna get into in a minute and the limitations around that, this considering it's like a first release, it already supports Bolt 11, Bolt 12, l n URL pay, lightning addresses, bit three five three usernames. All of that is already baked in and ready to go, which, again, aside from all the trade offs, is quite impressive considering it's a first release product. But hit me with your thoughts.
[00:57:09] Unknown:
Well, first of all, I wanna know what are the fees what's the cost for sending and receiving when they're doing the swaps and stuff under the hood in the background. Are they fairly low fees, or is it quite expensive to do it?
[00:57:24] Unknown:
That is a good question. Given that not many people use liquid, I'm gonna say that the fees are pretty low. But, obviously, it's not just the the fees, is it? Ah, okay. It's using bolts the the bolts.exchange submarine swap service. Yeah. Yeah. That it will be equivalent, if not identical, to the fees that bolts charge. What's that? Half a percent or a percent or something? Question. I don't know off the top of my head.
[00:57:51] Unknown:
If you carry on giving me your thoughts, I can go ahead and Well, yeah. Presuming it's it's no more expensive than a bolt swap, and it does it all in the background, and it's simple, and it works. I don't hate it. I'm Yeah. I'm not like a massive liquid fan, but, like, it's not bad. It gives you some level of privacy. You could send and receive lightning without all the typical headaches. It's certainly better than Wallet of Satoshi, which fucking everyone on Twitter uses and everyone making any video and shilling Bitcoin is using it. So I'd rather them use liquid and swaps than that.
[00:58:39] Unknown:
If it's low fees and it works, it's kind of alright. It's like there's worse things out there. Yeah. So I've just very quickly and and this is on the Bolt's website, so it's not through the the API that powers this. So there may be additional fees. I'm not sure. But let's assume that they just use the Bolt's kind of rates. Mhmm. If I wanted to pay a 1,000,000 sat lightning invoice, I'd need to send them 1,001,000 sat on liquid. So it's essentially a thousand sat for that specific
[00:59:10] Unknown:
That's not terrible. So it's yeah. It's naught point 1% is is the I kind of like it then. It's similar to what I was talking to Seth about ages ago. I was saying it would be really nice to have optionality in a Monero wallet where you can pay a lightning invoice within a Monero wallet as you would with a Lightning wallet. And what it would do on the back end is you scan it. It initiates a swap from Monero to Lightning, and then it pays that Lightning invoice. Yeah. Then you don't have to hold anything in, like, a custodial wallet like Wallet of Satoshi. You don't have to hold anything in, like, liquid, which is, like, custodial ish sort of.
[00:59:51] Unknown:
It it is custodial. Yeah. I think it's fine to say that. Okay. But you're you're not if you if you've got liquid wallet, you're not holding Bitcoin. Yeah. It's but it's it's sort of like a weird one, isn't it? It's like Distributor.
[01:00:02] Unknown:
Yeah. With this, it's like you'd actually definitely hold your own Monero. When you do the swap, you don't have any of the additional concerns that you'd have if it was Bitcoin swap because, obviously, it doesn't have any of your, it doesn't affect your privacy like you would with a non chain transaction on Bitcoin. So you could make very private, very cheap transactions, and use Lightning where you needed to without having to give up control of your funds and without having to have the headache of managing your own Lightning channels, all that kind of stuff. That would be a really nice option for, like, someone like me who actually uses both. Maybe it's not for everyone. But this kind of this liquid thing is kind of similar.
[01:00:49] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that's fair to say. Like, they've got confidential transactions and stuff as well. Again, I'm not equating the the the privacy took from one to the other. That's that's way beyond than a paycheck. But, yeah, it seems like a a not bad trade off Yeah. I know. I know. With the with the kind of caveats that, you know, I'd I'd want to educate people on the the trade offs here that, you know, a quorum of regulated companies could still fuck you over if they wanted to. They could do. Yeah. But it's definitely better than a custodial
[01:01:21] Unknown:
solution like Wallet with Satoshi. Like, there there's no there's no comparison there.
[01:01:26] Unknown:
I like the Breeze guys. They they just sit there quietly shipping call share. It's all open source. Their their head honcho, Roy, has some great blog posts, very technical ones, but, like Mhmm. He just always seems to have his finger on the pulse and yeah. Hats off. Yeah. Agreed. Not not exactly my bad. For them to just go out and just build this shit and stay out of the drama is is pretty cool. Yeah. One of your, main critics of Nostamax, what is it? It's gay.
[01:01:57] Unknown:
It's like, honestly, that is my main my main criticism is that people get all, like, wide eyed and bushy tailed and like, oh, Nosta, Nosta, Nosta, you're fixing the world, man. And it's just like the way that it's talked about winds me up a little bit, and it makes me want to shit on it, and it makes me not want to like it because it's just you're sort of like vegans, but you go around like, oh my god. Like, I don't use other social media. I'm, like, totally on Nostromare. Fucking annoying telling everyone constantly. Like, no one asks you, mate. I don't care. So it just makes me want to shit on you a little bit and, like, eat a steak in front of you. Technically,
[01:02:40] Unknown:
I've not really got any understanding. Like What was the main one that when we when we're at Ben Gunn's place, you you were mentioning that you thought that key management was a big problem? Oh, yeah. That is a problem or was a problem because now you're gonna tell me because it says frosta.
[01:02:55] Unknown:
Like, that's gonna be a nosta thing, something to do with freezing. It's gonna be something to do with cold storage. It's gonna solve this problem. No?
[01:03:04] Unknown:
Well, Well, it does solve the problem. It's not cold storage, though. Okay. Alright.
[01:03:07] Unknown:
It was key rotation kind of issue was my was my concern is that you're putting your key into all these different apps, and it's technically they're not cold. And then if your data or, like, your Nostra account becomes very valuable in the future, like, if you have millions of followers and either it's valuable to you financially or it could be a disaster for users and followers because, you know, there could be some sort of attack on them. If someone gets hold of that information, it's very, very costly. That was why I was saying I don't wanna spend huge amounts of time and effort putting my energy into understanding and using this thing and building a following and everything else when that could potentially happen.
It to me, it's like when people are like, oh my god. It's just like Bitcoin. It's like, no. It's not. No. It's not. But you're gonna tell me that something's gonna make yourself that.
[01:04:03] Unknown:
Yes. Your prayers have been answered. And I completely cosign everything you just said, by the way. Like, it was a gaping hole.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
If your NSEC gets into the wrong hands, like, bye bye reputation, you gotta start from scratch. Yeah. Like, there there's nothing quite like a good old password reset or or a centralized service or or be it with all of their faults to be able to Yeah. Let you back in. But clearly that could be a significant trade offs. Mhmm. Well, somebody fixed it.
[01:04:30] Unknown:
Okay.
[01:04:31] Unknown:
Froster, if you had to Froster at that's f r o s t r dot org, they basically come up with a way to chop up or shard your, not the private key, your NSEC, into a kind of offline multisig off chain multisig, basically Okay. Where you can have an existing NSEC and then put it into a tool, and it chops it up into and, again, just like multisig, you can configure this. So it could be a a two of three, it could be three of five, blah blah blah, all of the usual stuff that you would expect. Yeah. You have different shares, and then you can configure it to say, okay. Well, when I do anything on Nostra, when I post a blog post, when I do a shit post, when I post an image, if I like something, it needs two of my shares to sign off on that Okay.
For anything to happen. Now my first knee jerk reaction was, well, if I'm just tweeting or or sending a note on those or liking your post, I don't wanna have to deal with two devices. Like, that's just a shit UX. Mhmm. The idea here is that these shares are already compatible with all of the different Nosta signers or or easily compatible with all of the different Nosta signers that already exist. Okay. So you have one running on your start nine. You could have, obviously, one on your phone. You could have another via a third party service that the world's your oysters, where you can have all this stuff running Such that if it was a two or three, I would press like on my phone, and then it automatically talks to my start nine at home again over the Nostra ecosystem, the Nostra network, say, to get that second quote, unquote signature to then post the like.
Okay. So you can have a seamless relate seamless implementation of this, but hedge the risk such that in that scenario, again, if somebody steals my phone out of my hand, there's only one share on there. They can't steal my Nostra private key, and I still have the remaining two shares that are required for me to then go and do a key rotation to create a new key set under the existing end tech. So I don't have to change my account at all. This is where it this is what I meant earlier where I'm talking about, like, it's kind of off chain. I know there's no chain. It's the best way I can think to describe it where if somebody gets their hands on one of my three shares, they can't do shit. All that you do is grab the other two shares, cancel out that set of three, start with a new three from the existing NSEC, and then I start again. I haven't lost that system's account. Nobody has I don't have to burn my account and start again. The person that stole my phone, all they've gained is my phone. They haven't stole my Nostra account.
Like, the problem has been fixed. We just need to wait for some cool tools around this to be able to make it a bit more user user, friendly.
[01:07:19] Unknown:
Okay. That's definitely less gay. You're less vegan
[01:07:23] Unknown:
at this point. It was absolutely needed. And and, hopefully, if we get some cool tools around this, you know, mobile based ones, browser extensions, it added to all of the existing shit like Amber and Albi and all that sort of once we get it into there and it's the norm, like, the threats of, you know, pasting your end tech here, there, and everywhere, it becomes nullified. And the cool part is that if you've already put a lot of work into Noster, you don't have to start again to leverage this and start from scratch. You you protocol. You just take your existing key and you chop it up. Very nice. I like that. Yeah. Very cool. I was happy to hear this one.
Talking of start nines and all that sort of jazz, the Feddymint Guardian UI is coming to start nine. Now, again, Max and I have been quite vocal on our thoughts around Feddy Mints and eCash based systems and their limitations. One of which, and the main criticism that still remains, is kind of who will take the risk and run the mints. Mhmm. Now we've seen some news at the top of the show that might make this a bit more palatable for people, and they may feel that they're less likely to be thrown in a cage for doing this sort of stuff potentially. But, yeah, the risk was, sorry, not the risk. The criticism was, well, who's gonna run this shit? Well, this has got a little bit easier now by the fact that it's coming soon to a start night near you, which means that literally anybody can become part of or one of, you know, a FEDIMIC Guardian, which does lower the barrier to entry.
Doesn't change the risks that come with it that I've just mentioned. But in terms of the physical barrier to, you know, setting this up and having the tools to do so, you know, it's getting easier.
[01:09:03] Unknown:
If it comes to start nine, you'd be running one on your own hardware, and everything's over tall there. I run a start nine. You run one. Jordan runs one. Most people in Ungovernable Misfits run them, actually. If all of us set a mint up together with one of these things, we could have our own little Feddy Mint Ungovernable Misfits thing. You put funds in there, have the privacy benefits, and then we'd all have to rug each other or, like, collude to rug bull. That's right. Yeah. So I I don't hate that. I have a lot of problems with how it's been previously and, like, that big question of, like, yeah, who will take that risk? That's kind of cool.
That could be useful in those type of situations where there's already a level of trust between a group, and then you get some benefits from it.
[01:09:57] Unknown:
Yeah. I I think that's the one the one use case where I have always kind of reneged and said, look. Yeah. Maybe this makes sense, and that is in existing trust or semi trusted relationships like the ones you just mentioned. So I I think, you know, that doesn't change here. It just gets easier to kind of implement. So yeah. Again, cool to see that this sort of stuff is getting easier to kind of get off the ground, I guess. But Yeah. I the the the thing I always get is, like, does that actually move the needle in terms of, like, I don't know, like, to push back on your analogy, like, okay. We've gotten the ungovernable crew. What would we need to run a mint for that we can't do with existing infrastructure? Like, what what benefits do we get? What benefits do the users get?
[01:10:41] Unknown:
If we did it, we set it up. We all deposited some funds in there. Not mental funds, but, like, some funds. You can use it with any what's the word? You can use the mints in and out of lightning, can't you, basically? Mints. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for. So if we all said, right, we're gonna chuck a couple of hundred quid in there each, and then we can use that to interact with lightning and make payments, It would be quite nice because it adds another layer of privacy coming in and out of Lightning. It's better than a custodial wallet, obviously, and there's already a level of trust there. Like, we share passwords and keys and all sorts of things all the time, I'm gonna be much more worried about, like, the website going down than I am about a couple of hundred quid.
If it was simple to set up and you get the privacy and you can use lightning, I don't know. I yeah. You could do it with other tools, but it's kind of kind of useful,
[01:11:42] Unknown:
I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward to trying it out just to see, you know, how how quickly you can spin one of these up and what what it looks like from a, I guess, a user perspective as well. We'll have to do one ourselves and just mess around with it. Yeah. And also, like, try and, like, see see how much privacy you gain. Like,
[01:12:02] Unknown:
what can you do? You know? Is it part of a bigger setup where there's loads of tools that we currently use to try and gain some privacy? Is it just one of those jumps and hops and things that we use that's a useful tool that's not that hard to set up, that just sort of integrates with everything else. It's not gonna be a stand alone like, oh my god. Bitcoin's fixed. But it's like, that's kinda useful.
[01:12:27] Unknown:
Do you think we could I'm just thinking out loud here. Like, we could use it as, like let's say we set one up with you know, all of us are ungovernable, and we only gave ourselves access to it. So so none of the listeners or anything like that. Yeah. But we could use it as, like, a a privacy tool where we have a bit of a of a risk where only the other five of us would have to collude to to rogue me, for for example. But I could use it as a I'm loathe to use this term, but it will paint the picture I'm wanting to paint kind of like a a coin joint replacement sort of thing. Like, like, we're all paying from a singular pool.
That's what I'm thinking. Well, then I'm like, okay. Well, I've already got my own lightning nodes. If I pay somebody from my own lightning node, they can't see where it's coming from. Like, so am I actually gaining much there, or am I just adding custodial risk from you, motherfuckers, Rugging?
[01:13:24] Unknown:
They're not some circumstances where your payment like, it's much more private when you're sending from Lightning, but it's not perfectly private? Are there not some circumstances where if there's enough lightning nodes on the network that are colluding and trying to track that payment that they could then trace it back?
[01:13:51] Unknown:
I mean, in theory, possibly, but we're getting
[01:13:54] Unknown:
the the the the the the
[01:13:58] Unknown:
I mean, in theory, possibly, but we're getting So Yeah. We we like, but but what I'm saying is, like, it is possible. And also for incoming payments,
[01:14:01] Unknown:
there are some issues. So if you kind of have Yeah. So maybe, like, if you had the mint, you could have funds coming into it and then coming out of it, and it's just one more hop from like, you could send it from the mint to yourself.
[01:14:18] Unknown:
You use the mint as a proxy for your own lightning, though, couldn't you? Like a VPN sort of thing. Mhmm. If I wanted to receive, I don't know, let's say, a larger amount on Lightning and it was from somebody on the Internet that, you know I don't know. Let's say it was a consulting client of mine. I didn't want them to know where my Lightning node you know, the details of that. I could have them send it to the the mint that we run as a collective at Ungovernable and then send you know, if I didn't wanna leave my funds in there for you on your grubby little mitts, I can send it back to my own node and just minimize that that kind of rug risk from you fuckers.
[01:14:55] Unknown:
Yeah. You just you just actively manage it that it's like, right. I'm comfortable leaving these fucking degens with the possibility to rug me for £200, but I'm not comfortable with more. And then you just you just manage it that if you have incoming payments, you just then send them straight on to your, you know, to something that you fully control yourself and the cost of that's gonna be practically zero. I I think there are some we have to have a play around with it, but I don't think we should sort of overlook that that could be useful.
[01:15:27] Unknown:
Just one final level of advocate here just to remain level. Like, there are already things implemented or soon to be implemented in Lightning that would kinda fix the problem that I just said without me needing to give up custodial risk, like Mhmm. Clean routing, blinded paths, all that sort of stuff. So I always try to like, there seems to be a use case. Whenever I kinda think of a of a cool use case, I then think of a tool that already exists that would allow me to do that anyway. I guess it comes back to, like, ease of use, though. Right? Because I'm I'm, you know, a a turbo nerd that doesn't mind poking around. But if somebody can just open up a a trusted eCash wallet, from them and three of their friends, well, you know, that's the latter is much easier for them, isn't it, in that situation? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and the final final final one,
[01:16:16] Unknown:
it's been a while since I messed around with them things too with the cash. But isn't there some benefit in terms of key management, like, if one person of the five lost access that we that they could regain access?
[01:16:33] Unknown:
I believe that is correct. Yes.
[01:16:35] Unknown:
That again could be especially for, like, people who are a bit newer, if you've got three, four, five, like, family members who trust each other enough. But then they also have to be semi technical to some like, have their foot in the door to some degree because if they're running their own hardware like, you're not gonna go and run your own hardware when you're, like, brand new. So, I don't know. It's yeah. Like you said, there are other things that you can do, but I think I think, there are potentially some benefits there.
[01:17:05] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of of ecash and Feddy Mints and all this sort of stuff, I on April Fool's Day, Evan from Zeus, alluded to the fact that he was adding, an eCash solution into Zeus. Now in all of my interactions or things that I've kind of looked into, or seen him post online, he's always been a bit of a of an eCash bear like myself and not yourself. So I thought, especially the fact that he posted it on April, that this was a an April fools joke. Turns out it's not. Zeus are gonna be adding, the ability to have a an eCash wallet within, the UI as, like, a separate wallet. I believe they're not gonna be running any mints for for obvious reasons.
Yeah. But they're gonna be able to allow you to kind of presumably connect to one or many different mints and then kind of use Zeus as the, the front end for that in the same way that you would connect it to any one of your different Lightning nodes as well. So it seems like a bit of an about turn. Maybe I've just completely misunderstood his stance on it, but I've definitely seen old tweets where he's talked about all of the the stuff that we always talk about when we mention eCash. Yeah. So since then, he has posted a bit of a a a quick video, teaser.
And, I actually will take my hat off to the way it looks like it's gonna be implemented. And it they seem to have set, like, a threshold. It looks like it could be a hundred thousand sats. Okay. The closer you get to that target, the more red this account kind of visual becomes as risky, like, hot, you know, be careful, that sort of connotation. And there's also a big custodial wallet banner over the top of it as well. So, you know, he, I don't wanna say caves to the pressure. Probably a better way to say it will be listen to the market. There's clearly an appetite for this sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And he's gonna be adding that into Zeus. But I I kind of like the way it looks like they're gonna be approaching this with adequate warnings. And he's also mentioned as well in a response to Seth that they're looking into some automation options, which I presume looks like, you know, you could configure it to say, when I get to x amount in my custodial eCash wallet, send the transaction to my Lightning node or to my on chain wallet, and that would be an awesome thing, hopefully. But it it's early days at the moment. And he he did say, in fairness, he's wary about that solution because they don't want users to be charged anything without explicitly agreeing to it. But I guess if you if it if it's the user that configures that kind of threshold, then that seems like an acceptable trade off to me. But we should Sounds fair. Yes. Alright. Last one on the list. Very quick mention, Electrum, the desktop wallet. Remember that that exists, Max? Mhmm. I thought about it.
Yeah. They they've jumping on the Nosta bandwagon as well. So they're gonna be, using Nosta to replace previously centralized services. For example, the submarine swap service will be decentralized, allowing any user to become a liquidity provider. So that's for the the lightning portion of their wallet. And also the PSBT cosigning plug in that they had has also been rewritten to use Nosta instead of a centralized server. And finally, they are also gonna be adding in Nosta WalletConnect as well so that you can use things like Alby and have it talk directly to your Electrum Lightning wallet.
[01:20:50] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[01:20:51] Unknown:
That wraps up the updates and releases. Finally, we just have a couple of questions that came in, from two guys on Nosta. So,
[01:21:00] Unknown:
please hit those.
[01:21:02] Unknown:
Do you have any bad experiences with laptops by Star Labs Systems? Did you send this as well?
[01:21:11] Unknown:
That promise, it wasn't me. No. This is from a a name called Observer on.
[01:21:17] Unknown:
Yes. I've had quite bad experience with, they were I ordered one. The time that it said that it was gonna take for delivery was nowhere close to actually how long it did take. It took months and months and months and months and months, and I think I had to pay up front anyway. So I just had, like, money sat there. I was just waiting for this thing to arrive. When it did arrive, it was quite good other than the track pad was, like, I would use it and then, like, the mouse would shoot off all over the place and start doing its own thing, which was really annoying. And I never actually found a way to fix that.
The only thing I could do was, like, plug in an external mouse. That was quite annoying. I ended up just using it as a server and just, like, fucking it off because I just got so sick of trying to use it. Outside of those two things, I thought it, like, looks nice. The build quality seemed to be pretty decent. Like, it looked higher end and felt higher end than most other laptops that you could run Linux on. So
[01:22:24] Unknown:
I don't know. Mixed feelings. What about you, Q? Yeah. So before I get into my experience, I know, our good friend, Catan, has also had one of these, and, his experience wasn't great either. I believe something quite drastic fail on it. I believe maybe the hard drive or the motherboard or something. And he had quite a difficult time, getting that replaced. In fact, I don't know whether we ever got the the part fully replaced or whether he had to pay something for it, but I remember him complaining about it. Myself, personally, mine's been faultless. It's been very good. I've had mine for well, we all bought them at the same time, didn't we, Max? I wanna say Yeah. Yeah. Is it three years at least?
[01:23:05] Unknown:
Yeah. Probably about that. If not longer.
[01:23:08] Unknown:
I use mine every single day. It's it's literally my daily driver. It's what I'm using to report this record this podcast. I do all my foundation work on it. I use it for video editing. I use it for shitposting on Noster. It it it quite literally is my daily driver. Mhmm. I use it kind of in desktop mode where it's plugged into a wide screen in my office. So Yeah. The Max mentioned about the trackpad, and I I I admit it's not great. It's kinda like it's almost like a glass one, isn't it? And and it doesn't feel if you've got any kind of grease on your fingers or anything like that, it it just doesn't feel that great. Yeah. But like I say, that's not an issue for me because I it's literally closed and mounted under my desk. I've got my keyboard.
Otherwise, performance has been great. I run pop pop excuse me, pop OS on it and have done since the day I bought it. So I've got no complaints, and I I don't wanna say I'd buy another one because, you know, of your experience and and with, with Catan's experience. But for the money, I feel like I've had a pretty good deal. So my my Yeah. Is pretty good.
[01:24:11] Unknown:
They've got a new one, which is like is it called the Starfighter or something like that, which is like 17 inch laptop, and it's got like a removable webcam that you have to actually slide in so that, like, that can disconnect. I think it disconnects the Wi Fi and Bluetooth when you do that or something like that. It's, like, got some interesting features that look quite nice. I was, like, semi tempted to think, like,
[01:24:37] Unknown:
could I try again? But I've decided against it. Yeah. They've got quite a few models out now since we bought ours. They've got the starlight, which is like the little, like, notebook type one. They've got the star book, which is like the the default option that we've both got. A Starbuck Ultra, of which I've not seen before. I presume that's the bigger one, is it?
[01:24:58] Unknown:
Maybe.
[01:24:59] Unknown:
Yeah. Four k screen and all that sort of stuff. Mhmm. And they've they've also got a tablet now as well, Max. Did you see that? Yeah. I saw that. I'm not sure how great it would be, though, to be honest. Observer also asked, do you advise against certain manufacturers of laptops? I'm probably not that well positioned really because ever since my turbo nerd years started, I've only ever really run, either a a MacBook Air, or this machine. So I don't really have any other experiences that I can kind of,
[01:25:31] Unknown:
talk about.
[01:25:32] Unknown:
And the final question they said was any recommendations based on own experience or from friends and family regarding a Linux laptop with a focus on privacy and repairability, battery, etcetera?
[01:25:42] Unknown:
I've seen
[01:25:43] Unknown:
one think I would have.
[01:25:45] Unknown:
Well, yeah, that's a good one is is Lenovo ThinkPad. You can pick those up used for very little money these days. Obviously, they are older machines. They they look their age and, you know, so if you're looking for something that's gonna get you some kudos in a coffee shop, that's probably not the the right machine. If it's something that you just want a bit of a workhorse to install Linux on and it's gonna, you know, hide in your office and use it as a desktop or something, then that could be a really good option because you you can get a lot of machine for your money. The only other one I was gonna mention,
[01:26:17] Unknown:
Framework.
[01:26:18] Unknown:
Yeah. Because you mentioned repairability and stuff is Framework. Their website is literally frame.work. They are pioneers in kind of repairable modular laptops. They are Linux first, I believe, and are fairly reasonably priced. They do different sizes, shapes, colors, and stuff, and you can kind of customize. Because it's so modular, You can customize, each machine to be very much suited to you with the ports, the keyboard style, the trackpad style. You know, the world is literally your oyster with a framework in terms of how customized how customized you want it to be.
So so that that's another good option.
[01:27:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I've heard a few people say good things about framework laptops. I've used a few different laptops over the years, and I know, like, people get annoyed with it, but I still think that a MacBook is just the best laptop. In terms of the build quality, like how long they've lasted for me, the trackpads, the quality of everything, quality of the build, how long does the battery last, do things just work. Like, I've personally just found that as the the best option. But running Linux on one, no. Not really.
[01:27:35] Unknown:
Yep. And then to round out the show, we've got two, tongue in cheek questions. The first one comes from bitter twenty one on Nosta. And this is off the back of me sending out a gloating note yesterday morning mentioning that I got eleven and a half hours sleep, which is completely Oh, you fucking can. Yeah. Well, that was the the gist of the question from bitter twenty one. He said, how the fuck did you do this, essentially? And and and, the the clue is, the kid was at the grandparents, so we didn't get woken up at Oh, nice.
[01:28:08] Unknown:
That sounds amazing.
[01:28:10] Unknown:
It was glorious, mate. Absolutely glorious. And and quite the contrast because the night before, I got, like, four hours. And then the last one comes from our good friend, mister Ben Gunn. And this is a question only he could conjure up. Mhmm. And you haven't seen this because I haven't actually put it on the the show notes. No. I haven't seen it. I'm gonna pose it to you. If it's a nipple, milk comes out. That got me to middle age. But you can have grease nipples, and the grease goes into them, not out. My question is, what really are nipples, and why do they lie?
[01:28:50] Unknown:
I
[01:28:51] Unknown:
sat there eating my breakfast this morning when eating And why do they lie? Yeah.
[01:28:56] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:28:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Left me lost for words that one. I'm not sure we can even answer that, but I I thought the listeners would giggle for us to read out. I genuinely think if you hadn't have told me who that was from, I could have worked it out. Oh, 100%.
[01:29:11] Unknown:
Yeah. It's that weird?
[01:29:14] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. That round is up, mate. It's a great way to finish. Thanks for that, Ben. Hope you're well. Yeah. Thanks, mate.
Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.
[00:00:11] Unknown:
Bitcoin. Now what's the Bitcoin?
[00:00:19] Unknown:
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
[00:00:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Oh. The greatest scam in history.
[00:00:25] Unknown:
Let's get it.
[00:00:27] Unknown:
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin, privacy, open source, keeping your Bitcoin secure, and the news and software updates that matter. I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits and a big thank you to Foundation Devices for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,XYZ. They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports, use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team. Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features. For those of you who actually use Bitcoin and actually care about their privacy and security, Cake Wallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments, and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes, use coin control, and this team are constantly innovating. And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com. Download the APK or start using this today on Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, or, of course, your Android device. Enjoy the show. Good morning.
[00:02:46] Unknown:
Hello, sir. Good morning. How are you doing today?
[00:02:49] Unknown:
Very well. Well, actually, it's my morning, and it's your afternoon.
[00:02:53] Unknown:
I was gonna actually say good afternoon. Yeah. But I didn't wanna give away too much information. But, yeah. You've been on your travels.
[00:03:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I've, finally left the shithole they call The UK.
[00:03:06] Unknown:
I'm gone. And then there was one.
[00:03:10] Unknown:
I'm gonna chip away at you, mate. I'm gonna get you to leave that fucking place. They don't deserve you. They really don't. Are you settling in okay? Yeah. I'm getting there. Good. It's a big change, but I'm happy to be leaving. It's weird, actually, because my missus has said a couple of times now where, like, we've been out and about and, like, with the kids and stuff, and I've just been chatting to people. And she's like, you would never do that in The UK. I was like, what? She's like, you would never speak to a person in The UK. Like, you would never open up or have any sort of conversations. And then I, like, thought about it, and I was like, yeah.
Towards the end of being in The UK, every time that the letterbox went or I saw a brown envelope or anytime anyone asked me anything personal, I felt like I was in proper Big Brother 1984 being watched, being hunted, and I started getting all paranoid and just not enjoying life. And immediately once I've left, there's pro like, nothing's fucking perfect. There's problems. There's different stuff, whatever, but I've immediately gone.
[00:04:19] Unknown:
I don't feel hunted, which is a nice feeling. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's definitely great to hear. So do you think that most of the change, is that is that a change in you and that you that you feel happier where you are now, or is it more of what you just said, like, the actual location of just being in The UK and all the the joys that I've written with it? Yeah. It was being in The UK and the joys that come along with it and government
[00:04:44] Unknown:
interfering with fucking everything and the tax man just constantly raping you. It just felt not good once I've left that behind and not feeling hunted and not or kind of feeling a bit like a prisoner there, like it was just not a good feeling. So yeah it's immediately just made me like, okay this is not like an oppressive shitty situation like it was before. So it's good and I'm sat on the balcony recording this as well, so you probably hear some birds tweeting. It's very nice. Yeah I did notice those in the background. That,
[00:05:15] Unknown:
does add a nice little aura to to the background. Yeah
[00:05:19] Unknown:
I thought it might. Obviously I miss a few people like you and Kofi and Gun and others who are in The UK. Outside of that we're all good. Once you get a bit more settled, they'll have to organize a lads trip out there or something. Oh that would be good. That would be really good. I'll take you skiing.
[00:05:38] Unknown:
Nice. Okay.
[00:05:42] Unknown:
What's going on in The UK then, mate? Anything, exciting?
[00:05:45] Unknown:
I wouldn't say anything exciting. No. Yeah. No. There's nothing, major to kind of write home about at the moment. Me personally, you may or may not have seen. I know you've you've had, some patchy Internet connectivity lately, so you may not have seen. But, so did I. That's the story is. My headset's been giving me massive headaches. It was really weird. Like, last Thursday, my phone and my wife's phone wouldn't do anything. It was like it was shown it it was connected to the local network, the Wi Fi. Mhmm. But it it came up with a little exclamation mark and just said no Internet connectivity. So that's strange. And at the exact same time, like, other things were working. Like, my Linux machine was fine. I could load any website, watch YouTube, whatever. Perfect. No Internet problems.
The TV was working. That was on the Wi Fi. And then randomly across the day, different devices would just drop out where they just wouldn't load anything that required the Internet. Then the phone would kick back into life, and that would be fine. So it was really, like, sporadic where Random devices were just dropping off the well, they weren't even dropping off the network. They were still connected, but they wouldn't do anything. I've said this many times before, but networking is my boogeyman. I just fucking despise any Yeah. Routers, Internet, and all that sort of stuff because Yeah. I don't know. I've just never taken the time to fully understand how it all works. Like, I can get by with the basics.
So I phoned my ISP thinking that it was a problem with the router that was randomly, like, blocking certain devices, and they they did some troubleshooting over the phone. And to be honest, the the guy that I spoke to was even more clueless than I was. Yeah. Exactly. We we ended up with, yeah. Fuck it. We'll just send you a new router. In fairness to them, that turned up the next day. Plugged it in, exact same problem. So phoned them up again. Basically, the response I got from those guys was, well, we've done a speed test on your house, and everything's working fine. So, yeah, you're on your own. And I'm like, hang on a minute. I'm paying for a service here, but I you know, it's not working on all my devices. Like, what the fuck am I paying you for? Mhmm. But I can kinda see their viewpoint where I I'd openly told them what some of my machines are working.
And and some of them are the speed test is fine. I was getting, I can't remember, like, 50, two hundred gigs per second or whatever it was, the expected speed. And they were like, yeah. Basically, well, we sent you a new router. It's not that. We know that you're getting a good connection to the house the house. So, that's all we need to do. Goodbye. So I was like, fuck. I don't know what to do. And, obviously, I work remote, so, like, Internet connectivity is a big thing for me. Like, I need to be connected all the time to be able to work. So I asked the, the big brains on Twitter and Nosta, and basically, I got loads of responses. So very thankful to to anybody that did come back. And 99% of people were saying, oh, yeah. It's a DNS problem.
It's great if you know how to fuck around with that sort of stuff, but I don't. So by the time all of these responses come through and it was clear that there was, you know, all of the people that knew about this sort of stuff were saying, yeah, definitely DNS. A few people sent me some steps to, like, change DNS servers and whatnot. But by the time they all come through, it was like Friday night and, it was just washed my hands a bit. I was like, you know what? I'll I'll spend you know, I'll give it some some attention over the weekend. Woke up on Saturday morning. Everything's been perfect since, and not a single That's weird. Nothing has gone wrong since, and I'm touching wood here. Didn't change a single thing. Didn't do any DNS properly. Didn't change like, the only thing that changed was the router. And after the new router was in, it was still fucking up for twenty four hours. And then all weekend up until today, it's been absolutely flawless. And I have no idea what went wrong or what went yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm happy that it's working, but it's just frustrating that I don't know what it was and what.
[00:09:33] Unknown:
I'm sure I've had a similar thing before, and then I think it was something to do with the VPN that I was using at the time. I can't remember what it was now. But Yeah. Well, that was my first thought, but then I was like, well, some of the devices that aren't connecting just don't use a VPN. Like, my Wi Fi
[00:09:48] Unknown:
doesn't use any of that sort of stuff. And for it to be kicking my phone off, which does you know, my phone's a Graphene phone that runs a VPN constantly, and her phone's an iPhone that doesn't run one. Like, it can't be the VPN side of things. Makes sense. Neither does the TV, and I don't have one at the router level. So it was a frustrating forty eight hours, and then now it works. And I've I've no idea how or why. It's a mystery. So if you lose me, that could be the reason.
[00:10:12] Unknown:
If well, if you lose me, it could be a similar reason because I've still got no broadband here. I've got a janky, weird setup that I've got because, the people came out were like we'd like they took my money and then they were like, oh, yeah. Like, we can't give you Internet. I was like, well, you're fucking happy to take my money, weren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to go through this process to, like, get that back. But basically, like, no. We can't get through these trees, and we we can't run it here, and this thing's overloaded, and that thing's and, whatever, like, bullshit. And I was just like, for fuck's sake. So I think I'm gonna have to get a star link. It's probably all the snow where you are, mate. It is. Yeah. It interferes with things. It's a pain in the ass, but That must be go. Trade offs, isn't it? It's all trade offs. Told you not to move to the Arctic Circle.
[00:10:57] Unknown:
Quick bit of, foundation news. The early access program for Passport Prime is now officially closed. Sold them all, which is awesome. So we yeah. Quick update or reminder that the early access program was your way to get hold of one of the first Passport Primes that roll off the production line, and we also gave you some benefits for being, you know, one of the the kind of early testers of a brand new device. So So we give we're gonna be giving you a free case, a free subscription to the the the Envoy Plus service, which has loads of kind of digital add ons, like storage on our server, etcetera, etcetera. And there's a few other add ons that we're gonna be announcing soon that are gonna be rolled into that. And, there was one other benefit, and it is eluding me now. But I'm gonna have to fact check that. So let me just,
[00:11:43] Unknown:
While you're, fact checking that, I would just mention that, John and mister Crown and basically everyone other than me in, Ungovernal Misfits has been working really hard this last few months, actually, introducing the new meshconomy box, which is now online on Ungovernmental Misfits. So anyone who hasn't already should go and check that out. We kept talking about people who are producing goods and services who are in the Bitcoin world and in the mesh to Dell saying, like, it's really difficult for anyone to actually market themselves and for people to actually make these sales and, like, make enough to continue doing what they're doing, which you see, like, these things pop up and then they go away. And it's a real shame. We decided, I don't know, it must have been like I think it was around the time I actually left my full time work. It was around then me and John were talking about it for ages. We're like, oh, we should really do something. Like, maybe we can use a bit of the reach from Ungovernable Misfits to, like, help make some of these sales so people put, like, a box together and people can buy these things. And, obviously, it's taken a while, but we wanna see these small producers survive, and we want people to be spending Bitcoin and actually using this thing. So we've got some people from the Meshedale who have made candles, coffee, stickers.
We've got more people joining as well. I don't know if Barn Jerk is I don't think Barn Jerk is in there yet. We just show him anyway. But, we're just trying to make it possible for people to sell goods and services for Bitcoin, raise a bit of awareness, and it's all really nice quality stuff. Otis Bit My Coffee, we've talked about loads on, on all the pods really, But John raves about it and so does everyone else who drinks it. And then homemade candles and, obviously, our Uncoverable Misfits stickers as well. So that's gonna be the first box. It's $39.99.
[00:13:39] Unknown:
So how does this work from a, I guess, a privacy perspective? I'm I'm guessing that you guys are collating this somewhere and and boxing up all these together. And then Yes. If I was a a customer, basically, I'd just be sharing payment and shipping information with one person to be able to get access to all of those products.
[00:13:56] Unknown:
Yeah. That's right. Which is another cool side benefit. Yeah. Exactly. And it means they don't have to run their own stuff. Like, you might have heard Barn bleating about BTC pay server and lightning problems and all this sort of stuff and, like, trying to run a shop. Others experience the same. We're already running a shop. Like, we're already doing it. We already have the problems that come along with it. So it's not a massive lift for us to do it. So, yeah, I just think it's really cool. We're gonna keep adding things on there. But if you wanna help support other people in the Bitcoin world and you wanna actually use your Bitcoin and try these things out, then go and check it out. Very cool. Yeah. So back to Passport Prime, the one I was forgetting the additional bonus was an extended two year warranty as well. No goobles kind of you know, we understand that these are
[00:14:40] Unknown:
the first device off the off the line. There may be, you know, issues. Obviously, we're we hope that there isn't, but there'll be a kind of no questions asked two year warranty if if it and when any of these initial devices do have any problems, of course. Right. So, yeah, that early access program is sold out. We've sold them all, and we're gonna be shipping them ASAP. We'll be providing another shipping update in the coming weeks. But if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, shit. I wanted to get one. Like, you you can still purchase Passport Prime. You can still put down a $49 reservation to join the queue to be one of the first to get one of the the kind of next lot devices after we ship those, first one thousand early access program. And those are estimated to ship in, q two of this year, so not that far away. And, also, it's just a $49 completely refundable reservation. If you change your mind after you see the the initial reviews or anything like that, then, you know, it's kind of a no risk kind of reservation, there as well. And, obviously, when we get closer to shipping that batch of, of passport primes, we'll obviously be contacting you for the the remaining, balance, additional to the $49.
[00:15:48] Unknown:
Is it possible I know this is a massive ask from a Bitcoin company, but is it possible to make that payment using Bitcoin, or do I have to use, like, Stripe or some sort of, like,
[00:16:01] Unknown:
Fiat rail? I I sense this might be a loaded question. The force is strong in this one. Yes. Absolutely. We take Bitcoin. We would we prefer it if you pay us in Bitcoin, but, yeah, you can pay in fiat as well if you want to. But do you wanna tell the listeners why you you're asking that question?
[00:16:22] Unknown:
Me and John chat on Dorsey quite heavily in our last episode. Recently, he's been going around saying, you know, the Bitcoin network is gonna die if it's not used and all this kind of stuff. So, obviously, I thought, well, you know, I really like this guy. I'm gonna go and, order some hardware that he makes. I got my custodial lightning wallet out and, went to go and pay. And I realized that actually you can't. You can only pay in fiat, which I thought was really weird because it's very mixed messaging, isn't it? It is somewhat. Yes. Yeah. Very strange.
[00:16:55] Unknown:
It yeah. I just can't I don't I don't understand that. I can't wrap my head around it. Like, he has a payments company that integrates Bitcoin. He's given millions in funding to Bitcoin and Bitcoin adjacent technologies like Nostra and stuff like that. He clearly bought in. He's along for the ride, so to speak. Why not just plug in a fucking BC pay server for these hardware wallets? It just makes no sense.
[00:17:22] Unknown:
It doesn't make any sense unless you get all conspiracy theorist on it, which I'm not gonna bother doing. But, yeah, it's weird. I just thought it was funny. I just thought I'd make light of that.
[00:17:33] Unknown:
It's very odd. At least. Yeah. Indeed. Alright. Should we hit the news, mate? Yes. Let's do it. Starting off with a a pretty big one. The US justice department ends crypto enforcement unit and regulation by prosecution. The justice department has directed federal prosecutors not to target virtual currency exchanges, mixing and tumbling services, and, quote, offline wallets for their end users' actions or unintentional regulatory violations. So this is this is pretty big news that they they're basically saying, Lochner, you can't do that anymore. And, it's, you know, nice to see a bit of common sense coming out of the new administration.
So a bit of background, I guess, in the previous administration, you know, under Biden, the DOJ basically was kind of running a mock, and trying to prosecute people for doing, quote, unquote, unlawful things, by way of kind of passing new regulations and laws, after they prosecuted that that those people. And the the new administration has looked has basically said, look. He can't freaking do that. Like, that's probably against the law. So this is this is pretty big news, and it's kind of, yeah, it is looking at a bit of a positive. Obviously, I say that somewhat tongue in cheek because as we know with any administration, these types of things can spin on a on a dime, you know, from one day to the next. But for somebody that works in the industry and for somebody that's got a lot of friends that work in the industry, this is definitely a you know, it provides a bit more clarity as to, or gives a bit more confidence on those people that kind of are building in and around this this type of, industry. Would that not mean that they'd have to throw out the samurai case? Because Good. Yeah. I'm glad you said that because that that was the next thing I was gonna say. There's been a a couple of third party takes on this.
You won't be surprised to hear that Lola Leads from The Rage has got a great faithfulness, which will, of course, be linked into into the show notes. The short answer is we don't know, but probably not. Peter Van Valkenburg, apologies for that, Peter. He's got a a good tweet about it. It says, we'll have to wait and see what happens to Tornado Cash and Samura wallet product prosecutions. But the memo from the deputy attorney general yesterday is right on target. We should be going after bad guys, not the developers of good tools that bad guys have to, which couldn't hit the nail more on the head if I if, you know, if I tried to say it myself. Yeah. Yeah. To kind of bring us back down to earth a bit just so we don't get too bullish on this type of change. Again, I'll I'll reference the Lol Elite's, take on this, basically, where she points out a couple of, quotations in here where the DOJ is kind of intentionally vague in certain parts of it.
So there's some wording around they will continue to hold accountable individuals who use digital assets in furtherance of other criminal conduct, such as fentanyl trafficking, terrorism cartels, organized crime, and human trafficking and smuggling. And she makes a good comment like the open question appears to be whom does the DOJ consider to be an individual who uses digital assets in furtherance of those types of things? Like Yeah. That's a good point. It's it's it's again, it leaves it open to interpretation. So this is very much not a a slam dunk, and it and it and it's yes. Yeah. It open to interpretation, but it should definitely be seen as a as a step in the right direction, as a bit more clarity that, you know, you're less likely as a wallet developer now, as of today, to be targeted by some regulation that doesn't yet exist, because of the Yeah. Taking a dislike into something that you may have said or done. Yeah. It's just like a narrative shift, isn't it, really? Like Yeah. Yeah. At the very least.
[00:21:42] Unknown:
It's not we think you guys are the scum of the earth, and we're coming after you with everything that we've got. And, like, don't you dare try and have privacy and freedom because we will not accept it. It's a bit more like, okay. We're slightly more on your side at least. Like, we're not we're not hunting you specifically. Yeah. Yeah. You know it wasn't that long ago that everything, every time we recorded almost, because we're doing it monthly then, every time I was like this is getting worse, like it's it's getting worse, it's getting worse. Like it was it was really starting to be like oh my god if they get another administration like, we're pretty fucked here.
[00:22:19] Unknown:
And now it's, like, looking a lot brighter, so take the wins. Definitely. Yeah. It's nice to see one of the three letter agencies having their wings clipped a little bit. It definitely seem like, under the Biden administration, they were getting a little bit too big for their boots and and the raised a bit away with it. And we've already seen the anti chilling effect to this. One of the big headlines around the when all of this kicked off, particularly with the samurai case and with the tornado cache, like, part of the the chilling effect where developers were either stopping developing or pulling out of The US. Big headlines around that one was Phoenix Wallet, one of the, you know, most popular light self custody lightning wallets, if not the most popular.
They pulled out of the because of all the shit that was going on, and that was just what, you know, the sip of the iceberg for the chilling effect. They've already announced that they're coming back to The US off the back of this. Okay. Which is great news for for those in The US that, you know, wanna interact with Lightning but wanna do so in a in a noncustodial way, without having to do all that channel management. So, you know, Phoenix, great job. So this is a win for for Lightning users in in The US. More, US regulation news, unfortunately. I hate talking about it, but, you know, it it is a big part of of the narrative at the moment. Older Orange Man assigned a resolution blocking the IRS reporting rule for DeFi brokers.
So I can't believe I'm saying this, but, more positive news coming out of the the Trump administration. On the twenty seventh December December last year, the US Department of Treasury issued last minute regulations establishing reporting requirements for, quote, trading front end service providers involved in digital asset transactions. Right. These regulars were once again created under the Biden administration infrastructure. Oh, sorry. It's part of the Biden administration's infrastructure investment and jobs act and aim to crack down on cryptocurrency users who may have been failing to pay their taxes.
Reporting requirements were set to take effect in 2026 and required here's the here's the kicker here. Required noncustodial services to file a form ten ninety nine and follow the same reporting rules as security brokers and custodial digital asset trading platform operators even though they differ from traditional businesses. So it was essentially, it was looking like noncustodial services would have to report, file tax reports on their users. Just like Alright. Somebody like Coinbase would or Yeah. Cracker or something like that. So it was it was, you know, a shit show, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, last Thursday, I believe, Trump has signed that the resolution that basically repeals this and says no. It's, it's not gonna happen. There's a quote here, from, Republican Mike Carey. Don't know who he is, but the defibroker rule needlessly hindered American innovation, infringed on the privacy of everyday Americans, and was set to overwhelm the IRS with an inflow of new filings that it doesn't have the infrastructure to handle during tax season. By repealing this misguided rule, president Trump and congress have given the IRS an opportunity return its focus to the duties and obligations it already owes American taxpayers instead of creating a new series of bureaucratic hurdles.
I thank president Trump for signing his important bill into law and crypto, Cesar, Sachs for his leadership in supporting America's continued place as the global leader in emerging in the emergence emerging
[00:25:51] Unknown:
crypto industry. Can you imagine them trying to keep on top of, like, thousands of traders, like, jumping in from, like, Dogecoin to Poohcoin to Yams. You you like, all this different shit, yielding and yamming and whatever else it is and them trying to wrap their head around it. It would,
[00:26:12] Unknown:
probably actually collapse them. Maybe it'd be a good thing. Well, you say that, but most of those degens, like, they're gonna be doing that on a regulated exchange anyway, and they'll be susceptible to all these tax laws. Like, the the big win here is is the fact, like, people like Auset Foundation who run a a noncustodial wallet like Envoy or, Phoenix Wallet, where we don't collect and we we do not want to ever collect user data, and tie it to a wallet, this regulation would have said that we would be left with no choice but to do that because we would be one of these DeFi front ends. And to be able to, you know, operate in The US, we'd have to file a ten ninety nine on all of our users. And that would mean that we need to know who all of our users are. You know, naturally, we do not wanna do that. So it's yeah. This is this is a big positive again for somebody that that works in the industry, particularly for those American companies.
This means that they don't have to do all of this and, you know, add surveillance on their users and irrespective of all of the, you know, the additional load on the onto the IRS that, you know, we've just mentioned would would have been a complete shit show. Good. Well, this is all exciting news. I like it. Yeah. Kicking off with the positive. Long may it continue. The last couple of pieces of news I just wanted to point out, there's a couple of, conferences over in The US in the last weekend, one of which was the MIT Bitcoin Expo. And, there's a very interesting sit down chat with Frank Korver from Bitcoin Magazine, and he sits down with I think his name is Shores Provost Mhmm. Who is a core contributor and all around just smart guy.
They had a sit down chat where they talk about the latest and greatest in terms of the prosecutions ongoing with Tornado Cash and some real wallet developers and all of the implications on the industry. Basically, all the stuff that we've been talking about, but they you know, it's just a a cool little, fireside chat that is a good, you know, can act as a good quick catch up and and Mhmm. Bring you speed and keep you abreast of, you know, what this could mean one way or the other for the industry. So I just wanted to shine a light on that, and, obviously, that will be linked in in the show notes as well. And finally, the the other, conference, if you wanted to get your your turbo nerd on, was Up Next, which I believe was in The US. Maybe, I think it was at Sailors, place.
It was a technical conference called Up Next where they're basically talking about the latest and greatest in Bitcoin scaling. There'll be two links in the show notes, of the livestream. I think they're about it's a full day livestream essentially covering all of the talks, panels, and guest speakers, about eight hours each. So, I don't know whether this counts towards the forty podcast hours per week, but, there's sixteen hours catered for if you wanna sit down and watch all of it. We'll check-in with Rod Palmer and Grease. Probably best to listen to it because I've got the stream up right now, and it looks like it they filmed it on a potato. So it's definitely not Haikyuu.
[00:29:14] Unknown:
Any more news, or are we into the boosts? Let's hit the boosts, mate. Okay. First up, we've got Rod Palmer from Bugle News, hashtag forty hours per week with 50,000 sats. Get the fuck out of The UK. I assume he's saying that to you, mate, because I'm already gone. Yeah. Seems to be. I'm the only one left.
[00:29:38] Unknown:
Interestingly, I am getting the fuck out of The UK temporarily to go to Vegas, for the big couple weeks, with with the foundation team. I don't know whether I'm allowed to publicly say this, so I'll need to check this with him before, before this goes live, but I'm I'm pretty sure that it's public knowledge that him and the the Bugle guys are putting on a an event in Vegas. Oh, okay. They've they've graciously asked me to to be part of a panel, I think, or or a q and a session. No pun intended. So I'm just checking diaries and stuff at the moment. I haven't committed a %, but I'm doing everything I can to make sure I get out there because, What an honor. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I was, I was, taken aback. So, hopefully, all being well, we'll be meeting mister Palmer and the bugle theme. Late stage HODL with 10,000 SATs. Keep up the good work, boys. Thank you very much, sir.
[00:30:29] Unknown:
Chet with 10,021 SATs. Busy, busy, busy, homey. Still listen on my seventeen hour drives from Texas and what's k y? Kentucky, maybe? Kentucky. Texas and Kentucky.
[00:30:45] Unknown:
Seventeen hour drive. Yeah. That's dirty. That is dirty. How many this this is a tangent. On a seventeen hour drive, how many times do you reckon you'd have to stop for a piss?
[00:30:57] Unknown:
I can tell you because I used to do seventeen hour drives often. I would stop for a because I would always have, like, those big two liter bottles in the door bins, and I would just smash through coffee and water. So I would say I'd probably stop for piss on average once every hour and a half to two hours. You didn't fancy just filling the bottle back up, that two liter bottle when it was empty? I did it occasionally. Like, if I was in Central London driving around, there's, like, nowhere to stop and piss. Yeah. Occasionally, I'd either depending on what van I was in, I'd either go into the back of the van and, like, piss in there. So I wasn't doing it in, like, a residential area, or, yeah, like, piss in the front. But it would it would depend because, obviously, a lot of the time it was countryside, so it was just, like, pull into the side of the road, take a piss, jump back in. Gotta stay hydrated, mate. Indeed you have. Let us know, chat. How many times do you stop and piss on a seventeen hour drive? We'd love to know.
[00:31:54] Unknown:
Alright. Next up, we've got Otto, and he's responding to the chat we had about unlocking Dojo on start nine. He's boosted with 10,010 subs. And he just said, thank you. It was great to be a part of it. Thank you for your contribution, sir. Yeah. Thank you, mate. Thank you to everyone involved in that. It's a big step. Definitely.
[00:32:12] Unknown:
Anonymous with 6,666 SATs. I've tried to use Nosta, but doesn't seem to be very intuitive. Is there a guide slash primer out there on how to make it useful? You're anonymous, aren't you? You've gotta be. I know. Such a perfect plug.
[00:32:32] Unknown:
I promise.
[00:32:33] Unknown:
From the bottom of my heart, this is not me.
[00:32:35] Unknown:
Okay. We believe you. Yeah. I think there is one. Queue, have you heard of any out there?
[00:32:41] Unknown:
Yes. Anonymous. If you want the the perfect Nosta onboarding tool and primer, head to hellonosta.xyz, and you'll find a multitude of guides there, including how to use, Primal as a as a simple onboarding client and then more kind of slightly technical stuff around what Nostra is, the different type of facets of it, and how you can use it, and why it's cool and useful. So, yeah, check that one out. Hello Nostra.xyz. Panjo with 0.014, and he's responding to Bitcoin Breeze 63, which I presume is the last one. I've kinda lost track of what number we're on. Track. Yeah. He said, why the hate on all botch ups? I run it alongside my VPN all the time. It It doesn't need to be set as your VPN service to connect and forward traffic proxy to port nine zero five o.
Oh, well, I I say that, and I think I said this when we were talking about it. It's been a long time since I've actually tried Autobot, and That's probably because I was scarred by how terrible it used to be. Yeah. What was the context that we were talking about it? I think I was actually slagging off a sponsor, which is should be good work.
[00:33:52] Unknown:
I think I was saying I really like to see in Cake that they have the Tor integration so you don't have to run all bot. Possibly.
[00:34:00] Unknown:
Yeah. Thanks for letting us know, Andrew, that you can run it outside. It's like it doesn't have to take over the VPN thing. But with that said, like, if you're a Bitcoin wallet, just build in a Tor library and just do it natively. Yeah. Please. Aren't they stealing yours? Isn't that how it's working?
[00:34:14] Unknown:
Who? Cake? Yeah. I believe they it's not well, yeah. They It is stealing. Listen. Open source is not about being able to use each other's stuff. Alright? That's theft. Meat basket. And cloning. Cake, you cloning cunts. Don't be so disgusting.
[00:34:29] Unknown:
Do that to us.
[00:34:33] Unknown:
Yeah. I think they're using your Yes. That's correct. Yeah so coming soon. Yeah and to be fair actually with the Orbot thing, I also haven't used it in years. I just remember using Orbot and then what was it? What's the is it Electris? No no that's fuck. I can't remember now. I remember trying to use that, and, like, every time I was trying to do a transaction, it wasn't working, it wasn't connecting, and it was just dropping. And it was an absolute fucking nightmare. And I think that kind of gave me PTSD. I was like, I'm never using this shit again, but maybe it's good now. I used to use it with BlueWallet a lot, and, yeah, I had similar
[00:35:09] Unknown:
experiences. Okay. FOMO chronic 1,001 SATs just sent us a love heart. Thank you. Oh,
[00:35:15] Unknown:
we love you too, mate. Baked potato. I've got nothing smart to say. Here's some sats. Thank you. Great name. Yeah. Really good.
[00:35:26] Unknown:
Bubba with 1,000 sats. The way y'all prattle on can be fun. I'm not saying it was this time, but keep on prattlin'.
[00:35:36] Unknown:
Thanks, mate. We'll never stop prattling. Chad Farrow with 333 sets. Move everything to Noster so you can own your own data. And by you, I mean six relays other people own. Oh, Chad Farrow. Now, Chad,
[00:36:00] Unknown:
I know you're trying to trigger me here, but you I know for a fact that you're smart enough to know that that's not the truth. So for the onlookers, I'm going to say that it's very easy to download all of your data at any time from any Relay or just run your own Relay. I run one on my phone so that it backs up all of my notes and shit automatically. And I've also got one on my start night as well. But, yes, Chad, you are kind of correct because most people right now are not gonna do that. So they are kinda locked a little bit by just trusting a multitude of
[00:36:34] Unknown:
six to 20 different relays. Okay. Well, I appreciate that comment because I really like it when you get wound up about North Star. I like it when you get wound up about Nosta, and I especially like it when Ben Gunn gets wound up about Nosta. Like, two absolute Nosta shills, just only takes a little nudge. And you're like, no. No. No. No. It's just fucking amazing. Trust me. It's good fun. I liked it.
[00:36:58] Unknown:
I will sign off, that. The reality is most people have, like, 20 relays, and the the likelihood that most of them all sent to you at the same time is kind of zero. That is fair. That is fair. But you did go under my skin a little bit there, Chad.
[00:37:13] Unknown:
Well done. Pies with 420 sets. Let's fucking go. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. USA, USA, USA, little American flag, laughing face. And then back again with another 420 sats. V for v, hashtag forty hours per week. America equals gold. England equals shit. Didn't he say that he was gonna stop that?
[00:37:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I think well, no. He wasn't he whining about us not talking about him enough? Maybe that's why Oh, maybe. So he can Maybe.
[00:37:55] Unknown:
Yeah. He gets a mention. But I agree with you, mate. You're not shitting on me anymore. So,
[00:38:01] Unknown:
Oh, okay. Like that, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once I'm gone, I'm gone, mate. That's it. B is boosted with 400 sats. No message.
[00:38:10] Unknown:
B t c onboard. Hashtag l enhance or CTV with 300 sats.
[00:38:19] Unknown:
And then finally oh, yeah. And that BTC on board's comment was crooks is amazing because we were talking about that last time, weren't we? The Oh, yeah. The kind of DIY signing device. Mhmm. And then finally, thank you to Pojan Meeze with, thirteen thousand six hundred SAT streamed. Thank you, mate. With sick 1,620 SATs and with 910 SATs streamed. Thank you very much, guys. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Right. Updates and releases? Let's do it. Oh. We're onto a big one. LNBits version one. Wow. Stable, hardened, and production ready. That has been a while in the in the making, hasn't it? This is similar to to the way samurai used to do it, wasn't it? Where Yeah. Like 0.999
[00:39:10] Unknown:
v. 9.
[00:39:14] Unknown:
Yeah. So LMBits has been in public beta for what seems like the entire time that I've been in and around Bitcoin. Wonderful, wonderful projects. Great team behind them. You know, some of our good friends have been contributors and worked there and stuff. So, yeah, great to see that they finally come out with, you know, it's officially out of beta, and they have a a version one product. After five years and over 6,000 commits, LMBits has reached the momentous milestone. LMBits version one is officially here. So congratulations to Ben Gunn and the team. Ben Gunn? Not Ben Gunn. Sorry.
[00:39:50] Unknown:
Ben Ark. Ben Gunn's done fuck all for them.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
Additionally, and, you'll love this one, it now offers WebSocket payments, support for Nosta Wallet Connect Oh, thank god. The option for Nosta or OAuth login, and improved admin and developer tools amongst much more. Amazing. Very cool. And, of course, you can run this on all of the popular node software. So it's just a one click install. BTC pay server version 2.1 has now been released, including a new multi sig experience, the acceleration tool. So they've improved RBF and CPFP, child pays for parents, for those of you that want to speed up your transactions that are stuck in a mempool. Although, having said that, it's pretty impossible to get your transaction stuck in a mempool at the moment. Yeah. I was gonna say.
Yeah.
[00:40:46] Unknown:
But it's been nice to me because I've had to make loads of transactions, and I'm just like, this is lovely. This is really nice.
[00:40:53] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Literally, the I was talking to the honest Earth the other day, and the only thing that's giving any sort of volume in, in the mempool at the moment is some d gen shit that's unwinding. Okay. What it was called, Let me just check my signal messages with him. It was, Babylon unstaking continues to account for a significant proportion of all Bitcoin transactions, even hitting 50% on the April 11. I've no idea what Abalone Unstaking is, but, thank you to the Beaten for Yeah. Thanks, guys. Topping themselves. Thanks for keeping us going. Yeah. So back to BT pay, new integrations with, the new version of Shopify.
Also a new integration with Ghost, the the popular kind of self hosting blogging service. So that's pretty cool. You know, we'll power content creators and publishers and stuff to accept Bitcoin donations natively. So there's, like, a native connection now with a a BTP. Pretty cool. And they've also given, Monero its own kind of, plugin now so that I believe, you might know better than me here. But, I believe it was a bit of a custom thing before to kind of have a little bolt on to Monero and any other altcoins that you wanted on your BCP server.
[00:42:17] Unknown:
They did a load of dev work off their own backs to make that happen. So me and Seth covered it a little bit in I think it was, like, maybe two episodes ago. But, yeah, he was just saying a big thank you to them because, obviously, they didn't have to do that. The Monero community was trying to get funding together to make it possible.
[00:42:35] Unknown:
Sweet. Nice. Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on this is, click the link in the show notes for this release and look at the video that they did alongside the release. It's a an AI generated onwards. It's pretty good, actually. It's, like, got it's got rockstar dev. And when they're talking about multisig, they've, like, multiplied him, and there's, like, loads of him walking around with his mask and stuff. It's pretty funny. This I tell you what, this AI stuff, like, I've been sleeping on it. Like, the video generation stuff and the the design stuff that you can do is getting pretty fucking wild.
[00:43:06] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. It's fucking amazing. I wish I had more time to play around with it. Yeah. I I saw a a post this morning actually that was comparing
[00:43:14] Unknown:
The remember do you remember one of the very first AI generated images sorry, videos that came out was, Will Smith Will Smith eating spaghetti. Yeah. And that was two years ago, and then they compared it with one you can generate today. And it like, the the one from today literally looks like it's Will Smith that somebody filmed it, you know, with a high res camera. Doesn't matter. Doesn't that? One from two years ago was, like, an absolute abomination. Yeah.
[00:43:42] Unknown:
Yeah. It's it's, like, amazing
[00:43:44] Unknown:
and scary. It's getting to the point now where you can't tell the difference between what's real and what's not. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. That's, I guess, one of the the downsides of, the proliferation of this sort of stuff is fake shit just,
[00:43:59] Unknown:
well, proliferates much more easily. But maybe it can work the other way as well because it's like, well, we have video evidence of you robbing this bank. You're like, that's not me. It's AI. That is a very good point. Yeah. We've got video evidence. Well, you can't really use that because it kinda works both ways.
[00:44:16] Unknown:
Yeah. Next on the list, we got Robosats version zero point seven point six alpha. And you you're gonna love this one, Max. Coordinator rating over NoSTA. Oh, yeah. Oh, baby. This update includes a beta version of coordinator rating via NoSTA, new messages in the trade workflow to address common questions, and a requirement for submitting contact method a contact method in dispute flows. So it seems as though, the the shift towards using Nostra as kind of a connectivity glue on, Robosats continues. Mempor version 3.2 has been released.
This one includes support for v three transactions and the display of anchor outputs. We've got a new UTXO bubble chart. Users will find a new UTXO bubble chart on the address page providing visual insights into into unspent transaction outputs. That's pretty useful. We've also got, datum miner tags to identify runestone messages and inscriptions, package broadcast feature for sending transaction packages, Stratum job data visualizations for better understanding of mining job details. So this looks pretty similar to, do you remember us talking about Orange Surf's tool, Grid, where he was fostering Antpool and friends, etcetera. Or Yeah. You can whoever you want together. So it looks similar to that where you can see the pools that are using similar or identical mining templates as well. So that's a pretty cool, tool to have, on the dashboard.
Additional labels for Taproot Multisig stuff, transaction and PSBT preview feature. A new transaction and PSBT preview feature aids in verifying transaction details before completion.
[00:46:08] Unknown:
That's I'm gonna have to test that one. While we're on this, did you listen to my annoying, voice messages the other day?
[00:46:16] Unknown:
I listened to it once and then made a mental note to revisit it when I wasn't distracted, and I did not do
[00:46:25] Unknown:
Any thoughts on them, or have they just completely exited your mind?
[00:46:29] Unknown:
Did you wanna give me a quick recap?
[00:46:31] Unknown:
Yeah. So the the reason that triggered that in my mind was, like, verifying address details. I realized that the way that you can verify an address on the passport is really nice. We've talked about that a lot. Like, it's a really nice feature. But when I'm sending not to myself, when I'm sending somewhere else Yeah. Obviously, I go through and it says verify that you're sending to this address and I scroll through and I'm like, yep. That's the right one. You've got it in, like, large lettering, smaller lettering, like, it's easy to see. It's, like, easy to verify it. Yep. That is who I'm sending it to. And then it goes to the next thing. It says something about, like, this is the fees that you're using, which is, like, fuck all at the moment. And then it says, change address.
And I was wondering, is there a way that where it says change address, there could be a little things where it says, like, verified coming back to this passport or, like, I don't know how you would word it, but basically that there's no interference where the change address could potentially not actually be your change address.
[00:47:36] Unknown:
I see. So to be clear, the device automatically checks that as part of every transaction. I'm sure it does. If it detects a change address that's not yours, it won't sign the transaction. So what your request here is just make that clearer.
[00:47:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Okay. Just for, like like, you know that, and, like, I kind of know that. I'm like, yeah. Obviously, like, they're not idiots. They're gonna fucking do things properly, properly and it's gonna come back to me. But it doesn't specifically say that. And so it's like, here's your change address. You're like, cool. That's a long string of letters and numbers. That means fuck all to me unless I like go on to Sparrow and go and check and like look through it manually before. Whatever. Like, I could I could do that On that screen when I'm looking at it, it's like, oh, that's very nice. There's a load of letters and numbers, but it doesn't actually give me any confidence if I'm a new user, especially that, like, I'm definitely getting that back because that's a concern.
Yeah. So I just thought, like, maybe it could just be worded like confirmed coming back to this master seed or this is your you own this address or I don't know how you worded it. I just I just thought that could be a nice little touch. No. I I agree. We could probably make that clearer to the user and and also tangential to that. We have an update pending
[00:48:49] Unknown:
on the Envoy side of things where when you're going through that sign in flow, you'll have, like, the transact you've scanned Envoy. You're reviewing the transact details on Passport. Envoy, at that point, is currently just showing an animated QR code. Yes. And it's waiting for you to hit the QR code scanner to then scan the signed transaction back from Passport to broadcast it. The update that will be coming out later this year will allow you to switch on that screen without losing your kind of place in the flow so that you can flick between here's the unsigned transaction in QR code format and another screen that shows you all of the transaction details, one of which would be the change address so that you can do a visual comparison if you wanted to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. So, yes, makes sense.
And, yeah, noted. There was another one as well while we were doing business on air. Yeah. There was another one. So when I was on my travels
[00:49:43] Unknown:
escaping The UK, I was really concerned about traveling with the passport. So I wiped it and did encrypted backup and then anyway, whatever. I don't have to go into the whole fucking thing, but I had to restore from an encrypted backup once I arrived. What was the flow? Oh, that was it. Yeah. So I kept one passport back in The UK just as, like, a disaster recovery backup thing in a secure location. I was like, I'll keep that until I know that I've got over here. And then when I next fly over, which is quite soon, then I wipe that one. When I was restoring on passport number two here, go through, it's like easy, put the, micro SD card in. I was like, yep. Lovely. Restore from from backup. Yep. Do you wanna use your six words, or do you wanna use your 20 digit code? 20 digit code. Bang, bang, bang. Put that in.
All really good. All really simple. And then there was just one little thing where it's like it says we're now going to make I can't remember exactly how it says it, but it's something like we're now going to make an encrypted backup on this micro SD. Your code will change, your 20 digit code, because it's a different device now. Mhmm. And I didn't wanna do that. I didn't wanna change my code. I didn't wanna do the backup. But the only thing it shows you on the screen is an arrow to go forward. Like, you must do this. There's no other option. So, like, I was like, fuck. I don't wanna do this. Anyway, so in the in the end, I was like, well, I have to do it. So I press next. And then I was like oh I wonder what happens if I press back after I've pressed next. And once I press back it said are you sure you don't want to do an encrypted backup?
We advise against this or something like that. And I was like yeah I'm sure. It's like you can't see it unless you go forward and then choose to go back, which isn't really an option, and then it comes up. Okay. I think I I think I'm understanding you. Are you running the latest firmware version out of interest? I believe so. I updated the day I left, so I would imagine so.
[00:51:46] Unknown:
Okay. Alright. Interesting. So you you as a user, what would you prefer there to to just be asked rather than guided or almost forced to?
[00:51:55] Unknown:
I would rather than it, like, effectively being forced, but not it's not actually because there is a way around it, but it's not obvious for it to say, your code will change if you do a backup now because you're on a new device. We suggest you do a backup. Click yes for backup or no to not backup. And, like, there to be two options on that first screen.
[00:52:18] Unknown:
It's, like, minor and petty and, like, it doesn't really matter because presumably, you can do that backup on that micro SD card, and then your other ones will still be there so you could still use them. Yeah. It it it has no bearing on any existing backups that you've got at all. So the fact that you're, you know, effectively being forced to create a new one, like, it doesn't overwrite the old one. It's completely additional. So Yeah. Even if you did it and and then never ever used it, like, it makes no difference whatsoever.
[00:52:47] Unknown:
I assumed that, but just me being me, like, ultra paranoid, I was like, I assume, but I'm it was like would have been like two, 03:00 in the morning your time. I was like, I'm not gonna message queue now, but I need to do this. I don't wanna overwrite it because that could be a problem. And then I thought, while I think of this as a user, I'll just let you know. So it was like, it could say, we suggest you do a backup. This will not override your previous backups or something like that. It's just just little bit of clarity just for retards who might think the same, and then it's like
[00:53:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Double sure and just puts people at ease because yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No. That's cool. This is this is the the type of user feedback that we, we love getting. So yeah. No. It makes perfect sense and should be a pretty trivial change. Just to cap off the Menpell updates, they've now added the address poisoning detection, into this latest release. So, I think we've already spoken about this. So just a quick reminder, it's basically, a a bit of a or an assistance against, this poisoning detection, which is basically an attacker somehow generates an address that appears similar to one of your addresses and then tricks you into sending it to theirs when you just do a a cursory visual check of the address, you're like, oh, yeah. First six and last six match my address. It's mine. When in reality, it's a similar looking address and buy by BT's.
When the mempool detects these and they they see similar addresses, they've got, like, a big purple warning now that says, it's it could be part of a poison attack. Nice. Okay. BISC version two point one point seven has been released. Highlights here. We have, a split pane has been introduced to adjust the balance of sizes between the offer book and the chat or offer list. The Bisc Easy Protocol has been improved to safeguard against triangular scams. With this enhancement, the buyer is now required to set the trade ID as the reason for payment when making the fiat transfer. The splash screen now shows displays for the loading process, for each necessary step. That's cool, actually. It tells you, like, how you're getting on.
Yeah. Lots more additional bug fixes and improvements as well. Quite a long list. So won't go through it, but, of course, the link will be in the show notes. Next up on the list, a bit of a a controversial one, and, keen to hear your take on this one, Max. The Breeze team have announced the launch of a new wallet called Misty Breeze. The headlines here is basically the new wallet is a simplified version that looks very similar to the existing Breeze wallet, But Misty Breeze, the new one, leverages their kind of, I believe it's called nodeless Breeze SDK, which essentially allows you to interact with the Lightning Network without actually directly using the Lightning Network.
The way in which they achieve this is via using the liquid side chain. And then anytime you receive or send, it's essentially under the hood is a submarine or atomic swap Right. Between, you know, the inbound lightning payment, and then you receive liquid Bitcoin, in your wallet, and that's what you actually hold. And then vice versa, when you send, liquid Bitcoin is removed from your wallet, and it is put through a swap service to then you know, the swap service would then pay the Lightning invoice on your behalf. So you never actually hold actual BTC in this wallet, and this is where some controversy has come from in the fact that, it was Shinobi actually that did a post about this one. And he he used the term self custody, which seemed to trigger quite a lot of people, basically. Mhmm. By saying, you you know, it's a self custody wallet, but you don't actually hold Bitcoin. You hold Liquid. Liquid Bitcoin, essentially.
Aside from my thoughts on liquid, which I'm sure we're we're gonna get into in a minute and the limitations around that, this considering it's like a first release, it already supports Bolt 11, Bolt 12, l n URL pay, lightning addresses, bit three five three usernames. All of that is already baked in and ready to go, which, again, aside from all the trade offs, is quite impressive considering it's a first release product. But hit me with your thoughts.
[00:57:09] Unknown:
Well, first of all, I wanna know what are the fees what's the cost for sending and receiving when they're doing the swaps and stuff under the hood in the background. Are they fairly low fees, or is it quite expensive to do it?
[00:57:24] Unknown:
That is a good question. Given that not many people use liquid, I'm gonna say that the fees are pretty low. But, obviously, it's not just the the fees, is it? Ah, okay. It's using bolts the the bolts.exchange submarine swap service. Yeah. Yeah. That it will be equivalent, if not identical, to the fees that bolts charge. What's that? Half a percent or a percent or something? Question. I don't know off the top of my head.
[00:57:51] Unknown:
If you carry on giving me your thoughts, I can go ahead and Well, yeah. Presuming it's it's no more expensive than a bolt swap, and it does it all in the background, and it's simple, and it works. I don't hate it. I'm Yeah. I'm not like a massive liquid fan, but, like, it's not bad. It gives you some level of privacy. You could send and receive lightning without all the typical headaches. It's certainly better than Wallet of Satoshi, which fucking everyone on Twitter uses and everyone making any video and shilling Bitcoin is using it. So I'd rather them use liquid and swaps than that.
[00:58:39] Unknown:
If it's low fees and it works, it's kind of alright. It's like there's worse things out there. Yeah. So I've just very quickly and and this is on the Bolt's website, so it's not through the the API that powers this. So there may be additional fees. I'm not sure. But let's assume that they just use the Bolt's kind of rates. Mhmm. If I wanted to pay a 1,000,000 sat lightning invoice, I'd need to send them 1,001,000 sat on liquid. So it's essentially a thousand sat for that specific
[00:59:10] Unknown:
That's not terrible. So it's yeah. It's naught point 1% is is the I kind of like it then. It's similar to what I was talking to Seth about ages ago. I was saying it would be really nice to have optionality in a Monero wallet where you can pay a lightning invoice within a Monero wallet as you would with a Lightning wallet. And what it would do on the back end is you scan it. It initiates a swap from Monero to Lightning, and then it pays that Lightning invoice. Yeah. Then you don't have to hold anything in, like, a custodial wallet like Wallet of Satoshi. You don't have to hold anything in, like, liquid, which is, like, custodial ish sort of.
[00:59:51] Unknown:
It it is custodial. Yeah. I think it's fine to say that. Okay. But you're you're not if you if you've got liquid wallet, you're not holding Bitcoin. Yeah. It's but it's it's sort of like a weird one, isn't it? It's like Distributor.
[01:00:02] Unknown:
Yeah. With this, it's like you'd actually definitely hold your own Monero. When you do the swap, you don't have any of the additional concerns that you'd have if it was Bitcoin swap because, obviously, it doesn't have any of your, it doesn't affect your privacy like you would with a non chain transaction on Bitcoin. So you could make very private, very cheap transactions, and use Lightning where you needed to without having to give up control of your funds and without having to have the headache of managing your own Lightning channels, all that kind of stuff. That would be a really nice option for, like, someone like me who actually uses both. Maybe it's not for everyone. But this kind of this liquid thing is kind of similar.
[01:00:49] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that's fair to say. Like, they've got confidential transactions and stuff as well. Again, I'm not equating the the the privacy took from one to the other. That's that's way beyond than a paycheck. But, yeah, it seems like a a not bad trade off Yeah. I know. I know. With the with the kind of caveats that, you know, I'd I'd want to educate people on the the trade offs here that, you know, a quorum of regulated companies could still fuck you over if they wanted to. They could do. Yeah. But it's definitely better than a custodial
[01:01:21] Unknown:
solution like Wallet with Satoshi. Like, there there's no there's no comparison there.
[01:01:26] Unknown:
I like the Breeze guys. They they just sit there quietly shipping call share. It's all open source. Their their head honcho, Roy, has some great blog posts, very technical ones, but, like Mhmm. He just always seems to have his finger on the pulse and yeah. Hats off. Yeah. Agreed. Not not exactly my bad. For them to just go out and just build this shit and stay out of the drama is is pretty cool. Yeah. One of your, main critics of Nostamax, what is it? It's gay.
[01:01:57] Unknown:
It's like, honestly, that is my main my main criticism is that people get all, like, wide eyed and bushy tailed and like, oh, Nosta, Nosta, Nosta, you're fixing the world, man. And it's just like the way that it's talked about winds me up a little bit, and it makes me want to shit on it, and it makes me not want to like it because it's just you're sort of like vegans, but you go around like, oh my god. Like, I don't use other social media. I'm, like, totally on Nostromare. Fucking annoying telling everyone constantly. Like, no one asks you, mate. I don't care. So it just makes me want to shit on you a little bit and, like, eat a steak in front of you. Technically,
[01:02:40] Unknown:
I've not really got any understanding. Like What was the main one that when we when we're at Ben Gunn's place, you you were mentioning that you thought that key management was a big problem? Oh, yeah. That is a problem or was a problem because now you're gonna tell me because it says frosta.
[01:02:55] Unknown:
Like, that's gonna be a nosta thing, something to do with freezing. It's gonna be something to do with cold storage. It's gonna solve this problem. No?
[01:03:04] Unknown:
Well, Well, it does solve the problem. It's not cold storage, though. Okay. Alright.
[01:03:07] Unknown:
It was key rotation kind of issue was my was my concern is that you're putting your key into all these different apps, and it's technically they're not cold. And then if your data or, like, your Nostra account becomes very valuable in the future, like, if you have millions of followers and either it's valuable to you financially or it could be a disaster for users and followers because, you know, there could be some sort of attack on them. If someone gets hold of that information, it's very, very costly. That was why I was saying I don't wanna spend huge amounts of time and effort putting my energy into understanding and using this thing and building a following and everything else when that could potentially happen.
It to me, it's like when people are like, oh my god. It's just like Bitcoin. It's like, no. It's not. No. It's not. But you're gonna tell me that something's gonna make yourself that.
[01:04:03] Unknown:
Yes. Your prayers have been answered. And I completely cosign everything you just said, by the way. Like, it was a gaping hole.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:04:09] Unknown:
If your NSEC gets into the wrong hands, like, bye bye reputation, you gotta start from scratch. Yeah. Like, there there's nothing quite like a good old password reset or or a centralized service or or be it with all of their faults to be able to Yeah. Let you back in. But clearly that could be a significant trade offs. Mhmm. Well, somebody fixed it.
[01:04:30] Unknown:
Okay.
[01:04:31] Unknown:
Froster, if you had to Froster at that's f r o s t r dot org, they basically come up with a way to chop up or shard your, not the private key, your NSEC, into a kind of offline multisig off chain multisig, basically Okay. Where you can have an existing NSEC and then put it into a tool, and it chops it up into and, again, just like multisig, you can configure this. So it could be a a two of three, it could be three of five, blah blah blah, all of the usual stuff that you would expect. Yeah. You have different shares, and then you can configure it to say, okay. Well, when I do anything on Nostra, when I post a blog post, when I do a shit post, when I post an image, if I like something, it needs two of my shares to sign off on that Okay.
For anything to happen. Now my first knee jerk reaction was, well, if I'm just tweeting or or sending a note on those or liking your post, I don't wanna have to deal with two devices. Like, that's just a shit UX. Mhmm. The idea here is that these shares are already compatible with all of the different Nosta signers or or easily compatible with all of the different Nosta signers that already exist. Okay. So you have one running on your start nine. You could have, obviously, one on your phone. You could have another via a third party service that the world's your oysters, where you can have all this stuff running Such that if it was a two or three, I would press like on my phone, and then it automatically talks to my start nine at home again over the Nostra ecosystem, the Nostra network, say, to get that second quote, unquote signature to then post the like.
Okay. So you can have a seamless relate seamless implementation of this, but hedge the risk such that in that scenario, again, if somebody steals my phone out of my hand, there's only one share on there. They can't steal my Nostra private key, and I still have the remaining two shares that are required for me to then go and do a key rotation to create a new key set under the existing end tech. So I don't have to change my account at all. This is where it this is what I meant earlier where I'm talking about, like, it's kind of off chain. I know there's no chain. It's the best way I can think to describe it where if somebody gets their hands on one of my three shares, they can't do shit. All that you do is grab the other two shares, cancel out that set of three, start with a new three from the existing NSEC, and then I start again. I haven't lost that system's account. Nobody has I don't have to burn my account and start again. The person that stole my phone, all they've gained is my phone. They haven't stole my Nostra account.
Like, the problem has been fixed. We just need to wait for some cool tools around this to be able to make it a bit more user user, friendly.
[01:07:19] Unknown:
Okay. That's definitely less gay. You're less vegan
[01:07:23] Unknown:
at this point. It was absolutely needed. And and, hopefully, if we get some cool tools around this, you know, mobile based ones, browser extensions, it added to all of the existing shit like Amber and Albi and all that sort of once we get it into there and it's the norm, like, the threats of, you know, pasting your end tech here, there, and everywhere, it becomes nullified. And the cool part is that if you've already put a lot of work into Noster, you don't have to start again to leverage this and start from scratch. You you protocol. You just take your existing key and you chop it up. Very nice. I like that. Yeah. Very cool. I was happy to hear this one.
Talking of start nines and all that sort of jazz, the Feddymint Guardian UI is coming to start nine. Now, again, Max and I have been quite vocal on our thoughts around Feddy Mints and eCash based systems and their limitations. One of which, and the main criticism that still remains, is kind of who will take the risk and run the mints. Mhmm. Now we've seen some news at the top of the show that might make this a bit more palatable for people, and they may feel that they're less likely to be thrown in a cage for doing this sort of stuff potentially. But, yeah, the risk was, sorry, not the risk. The criticism was, well, who's gonna run this shit? Well, this has got a little bit easier now by the fact that it's coming soon to a start night near you, which means that literally anybody can become part of or one of, you know, a FEDIMIC Guardian, which does lower the barrier to entry.
Doesn't change the risks that come with it that I've just mentioned. But in terms of the physical barrier to, you know, setting this up and having the tools to do so, you know, it's getting easier.
[01:09:03] Unknown:
If it comes to start nine, you'd be running one on your own hardware, and everything's over tall there. I run a start nine. You run one. Jordan runs one. Most people in Ungovernable Misfits run them, actually. If all of us set a mint up together with one of these things, we could have our own little Feddy Mint Ungovernable Misfits thing. You put funds in there, have the privacy benefits, and then we'd all have to rug each other or, like, collude to rug bull. That's right. Yeah. So I I don't hate that. I have a lot of problems with how it's been previously and, like, that big question of, like, yeah, who will take that risk? That's kind of cool.
That could be useful in those type of situations where there's already a level of trust between a group, and then you get some benefits from it.
[01:09:57] Unknown:
Yeah. I I think that's the one the one use case where I have always kind of reneged and said, look. Yeah. Maybe this makes sense, and that is in existing trust or semi trusted relationships like the ones you just mentioned. So I I think, you know, that doesn't change here. It just gets easier to kind of implement. So yeah. Again, cool to see that this sort of stuff is getting easier to kind of get off the ground, I guess. But Yeah. I the the the thing I always get is, like, does that actually move the needle in terms of, like, I don't know, like, to push back on your analogy, like, okay. We've gotten the ungovernable crew. What would we need to run a mint for that we can't do with existing infrastructure? Like, what what benefits do we get? What benefits do the users get?
[01:10:41] Unknown:
If we did it, we set it up. We all deposited some funds in there. Not mental funds, but, like, some funds. You can use it with any what's the word? You can use the mints in and out of lightning, can't you, basically? Mints. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for. So if we all said, right, we're gonna chuck a couple of hundred quid in there each, and then we can use that to interact with lightning and make payments, It would be quite nice because it adds another layer of privacy coming in and out of Lightning. It's better than a custodial wallet, obviously, and there's already a level of trust there. Like, we share passwords and keys and all sorts of things all the time, I'm gonna be much more worried about, like, the website going down than I am about a couple of hundred quid.
If it was simple to set up and you get the privacy and you can use lightning, I don't know. I yeah. You could do it with other tools, but it's kind of kind of useful,
[01:11:42] Unknown:
I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward to trying it out just to see, you know, how how quickly you can spin one of these up and what what it looks like from a, I guess, a user perspective as well. We'll have to do one ourselves and just mess around with it. Yeah. And also, like, try and, like, see see how much privacy you gain. Like,
[01:12:02] Unknown:
what can you do? You know? Is it part of a bigger setup where there's loads of tools that we currently use to try and gain some privacy? Is it just one of those jumps and hops and things that we use that's a useful tool that's not that hard to set up, that just sort of integrates with everything else. It's not gonna be a stand alone like, oh my god. Bitcoin's fixed. But it's like, that's kinda useful.
[01:12:27] Unknown:
Do you think we could I'm just thinking out loud here. Like, we could use it as, like let's say we set one up with you know, all of us are ungovernable, and we only gave ourselves access to it. So so none of the listeners or anything like that. Yeah. But we could use it as, like, a a privacy tool where we have a bit of a of a risk where only the other five of us would have to collude to to rogue me, for for example. But I could use it as a I'm loathe to use this term, but it will paint the picture I'm wanting to paint kind of like a a coin joint replacement sort of thing. Like, like, we're all paying from a singular pool.
That's what I'm thinking. Well, then I'm like, okay. Well, I've already got my own lightning nodes. If I pay somebody from my own lightning node, they can't see where it's coming from. Like, so am I actually gaining much there, or am I just adding custodial risk from you, motherfuckers, Rugging?
[01:13:24] Unknown:
They're not some circumstances where your payment like, it's much more private when you're sending from Lightning, but it's not perfectly private? Are there not some circumstances where if there's enough lightning nodes on the network that are colluding and trying to track that payment that they could then trace it back?
[01:13:51] Unknown:
I mean, in theory, possibly, but we're getting
[01:13:54] Unknown:
the the the the the the
[01:13:58] Unknown:
I mean, in theory, possibly, but we're getting So Yeah. We we like, but but what I'm saying is, like, it is possible. And also for incoming payments,
[01:14:01] Unknown:
there are some issues. So if you kind of have Yeah. So maybe, like, if you had the mint, you could have funds coming into it and then coming out of it, and it's just one more hop from like, you could send it from the mint to yourself.
[01:14:18] Unknown:
You use the mint as a proxy for your own lightning, though, couldn't you? Like a VPN sort of thing. Mhmm. If I wanted to receive, I don't know, let's say, a larger amount on Lightning and it was from somebody on the Internet that, you know I don't know. Let's say it was a consulting client of mine. I didn't want them to know where my Lightning node you know, the details of that. I could have them send it to the the mint that we run as a collective at Ungovernable and then send you know, if I didn't wanna leave my funds in there for you on your grubby little mitts, I can send it back to my own node and just minimize that that kind of rug risk from you fuckers.
[01:14:55] Unknown:
Yeah. You just you just actively manage it that it's like, right. I'm comfortable leaving these fucking degens with the possibility to rug me for £200, but I'm not comfortable with more. And then you just you just manage it that if you have incoming payments, you just then send them straight on to your, you know, to something that you fully control yourself and the cost of that's gonna be practically zero. I I think there are some we have to have a play around with it, but I don't think we should sort of overlook that that could be useful.
[01:15:27] Unknown:
Just one final level of advocate here just to remain level. Like, there are already things implemented or soon to be implemented in Lightning that would kinda fix the problem that I just said without me needing to give up custodial risk, like Mhmm. Clean routing, blinded paths, all that sort of stuff. So I always try to like, there seems to be a use case. Whenever I kinda think of a of a cool use case, I then think of a tool that already exists that would allow me to do that anyway. I guess it comes back to, like, ease of use, though. Right? Because I'm I'm, you know, a a turbo nerd that doesn't mind poking around. But if somebody can just open up a a trusted eCash wallet, from them and three of their friends, well, you know, that's the latter is much easier for them, isn't it, in that situation? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and the final final final one,
[01:16:16] Unknown:
it's been a while since I messed around with them things too with the cash. But isn't there some benefit in terms of key management, like, if one person of the five lost access that we that they could regain access?
[01:16:33] Unknown:
I believe that is correct. Yes.
[01:16:35] Unknown:
That again could be especially for, like, people who are a bit newer, if you've got three, four, five, like, family members who trust each other enough. But then they also have to be semi technical to some like, have their foot in the door to some degree because if they're running their own hardware like, you're not gonna go and run your own hardware when you're, like, brand new. So, I don't know. It's yeah. Like you said, there are other things that you can do, but I think I think, there are potentially some benefits there.
[01:17:05] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of of ecash and Feddy Mints and all this sort of stuff, I on April Fool's Day, Evan from Zeus, alluded to the fact that he was adding, an eCash solution into Zeus. Now in all of my interactions or things that I've kind of looked into, or seen him post online, he's always been a bit of a of an eCash bear like myself and not yourself. So I thought, especially the fact that he posted it on April, that this was a an April fools joke. Turns out it's not. Zeus are gonna be adding, the ability to have a an eCash wallet within, the UI as, like, a separate wallet. I believe they're not gonna be running any mints for for obvious reasons.
Yeah. But they're gonna be able to allow you to kind of presumably connect to one or many different mints and then kind of use Zeus as the, the front end for that in the same way that you would connect it to any one of your different Lightning nodes as well. So it seems like a bit of an about turn. Maybe I've just completely misunderstood his stance on it, but I've definitely seen old tweets where he's talked about all of the the stuff that we always talk about when we mention eCash. Yeah. So since then, he has posted a bit of a a a quick video, teaser.
And, I actually will take my hat off to the way it looks like it's gonna be implemented. And it they seem to have set, like, a threshold. It looks like it could be a hundred thousand sats. Okay. The closer you get to that target, the more red this account kind of visual becomes as risky, like, hot, you know, be careful, that sort of connotation. And there's also a big custodial wallet banner over the top of it as well. So, you know, he, I don't wanna say caves to the pressure. Probably a better way to say it will be listen to the market. There's clearly an appetite for this sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And he's gonna be adding that into Zeus. But I I kind of like the way it looks like they're gonna be approaching this with adequate warnings. And he's also mentioned as well in a response to Seth that they're looking into some automation options, which I presume looks like, you know, you could configure it to say, when I get to x amount in my custodial eCash wallet, send the transaction to my Lightning node or to my on chain wallet, and that would be an awesome thing, hopefully. But it it's early days at the moment. And he he did say, in fairness, he's wary about that solution because they don't want users to be charged anything without explicitly agreeing to it. But I guess if you if it if it's the user that configures that kind of threshold, then that seems like an acceptable trade off to me. But we should Sounds fair. Yes. Alright. Last one on the list. Very quick mention, Electrum, the desktop wallet. Remember that that exists, Max? Mhmm. I thought about it.
Yeah. They they've jumping on the Nosta bandwagon as well. So they're gonna be, using Nosta to replace previously centralized services. For example, the submarine swap service will be decentralized, allowing any user to become a liquidity provider. So that's for the the lightning portion of their wallet. And also the PSBT cosigning plug in that they had has also been rewritten to use Nosta instead of a centralized server. And finally, they are also gonna be adding in Nosta WalletConnect as well so that you can use things like Alby and have it talk directly to your Electrum Lightning wallet.
[01:20:50] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[01:20:51] Unknown:
That wraps up the updates and releases. Finally, we just have a couple of questions that came in, from two guys on Nosta. So,
[01:21:00] Unknown:
please hit those.
[01:21:02] Unknown:
Do you have any bad experiences with laptops by Star Labs Systems? Did you send this as well?
[01:21:11] Unknown:
That promise, it wasn't me. No. This is from a a name called Observer on.
[01:21:17] Unknown:
Yes. I've had quite bad experience with, they were I ordered one. The time that it said that it was gonna take for delivery was nowhere close to actually how long it did take. It took months and months and months and months and months, and I think I had to pay up front anyway. So I just had, like, money sat there. I was just waiting for this thing to arrive. When it did arrive, it was quite good other than the track pad was, like, I would use it and then, like, the mouse would shoot off all over the place and start doing its own thing, which was really annoying. And I never actually found a way to fix that.
The only thing I could do was, like, plug in an external mouse. That was quite annoying. I ended up just using it as a server and just, like, fucking it off because I just got so sick of trying to use it. Outside of those two things, I thought it, like, looks nice. The build quality seemed to be pretty decent. Like, it looked higher end and felt higher end than most other laptops that you could run Linux on. So
[01:22:24] Unknown:
I don't know. Mixed feelings. What about you, Q? Yeah. So before I get into my experience, I know, our good friend, Catan, has also had one of these, and, his experience wasn't great either. I believe something quite drastic fail on it. I believe maybe the hard drive or the motherboard or something. And he had quite a difficult time, getting that replaced. In fact, I don't know whether we ever got the the part fully replaced or whether he had to pay something for it, but I remember him complaining about it. Myself, personally, mine's been faultless. It's been very good. I've had mine for well, we all bought them at the same time, didn't we, Max? I wanna say Yeah. Yeah. Is it three years at least?
[01:23:05] Unknown:
Yeah. Probably about that. If not longer.
[01:23:08] Unknown:
I use mine every single day. It's it's literally my daily driver. It's what I'm using to report this record this podcast. I do all my foundation work on it. I use it for video editing. I use it for shitposting on Noster. It it it quite literally is my daily driver. Mhmm. I use it kind of in desktop mode where it's plugged into a wide screen in my office. So Yeah. The Max mentioned about the trackpad, and I I I admit it's not great. It's kinda like it's almost like a glass one, isn't it? And and it doesn't feel if you've got any kind of grease on your fingers or anything like that, it it just doesn't feel that great. Yeah. But like I say, that's not an issue for me because I it's literally closed and mounted under my desk. I've got my keyboard.
Otherwise, performance has been great. I run pop pop excuse me, pop OS on it and have done since the day I bought it. So I've got no complaints, and I I don't wanna say I'd buy another one because, you know, of your experience and and with, with Catan's experience. But for the money, I feel like I've had a pretty good deal. So my my Yeah. Is pretty good.
[01:24:11] Unknown:
They've got a new one, which is like is it called the Starfighter or something like that, which is like 17 inch laptop, and it's got like a removable webcam that you have to actually slide in so that, like, that can disconnect. I think it disconnects the Wi Fi and Bluetooth when you do that or something like that. It's, like, got some interesting features that look quite nice. I was, like, semi tempted to think, like,
[01:24:37] Unknown:
could I try again? But I've decided against it. Yeah. They've got quite a few models out now since we bought ours. They've got the starlight, which is like the little, like, notebook type one. They've got the star book, which is like the the default option that we've both got. A Starbuck Ultra, of which I've not seen before. I presume that's the bigger one, is it?
[01:24:58] Unknown:
Maybe.
[01:24:59] Unknown:
Yeah. Four k screen and all that sort of stuff. Mhmm. And they've they've also got a tablet now as well, Max. Did you see that? Yeah. I saw that. I'm not sure how great it would be, though, to be honest. Observer also asked, do you advise against certain manufacturers of laptops? I'm probably not that well positioned really because ever since my turbo nerd years started, I've only ever really run, either a a MacBook Air, or this machine. So I don't really have any other experiences that I can kind of,
[01:25:31] Unknown:
talk about.
[01:25:32] Unknown:
And the final question they said was any recommendations based on own experience or from friends and family regarding a Linux laptop with a focus on privacy and repairability, battery, etcetera?
[01:25:42] Unknown:
I've seen
[01:25:43] Unknown:
one think I would have.
[01:25:45] Unknown:
Well, yeah, that's a good one is is Lenovo ThinkPad. You can pick those up used for very little money these days. Obviously, they are older machines. They they look their age and, you know, so if you're looking for something that's gonna get you some kudos in a coffee shop, that's probably not the the right machine. If it's something that you just want a bit of a workhorse to install Linux on and it's gonna, you know, hide in your office and use it as a desktop or something, then that could be a really good option because you you can get a lot of machine for your money. The only other one I was gonna mention,
[01:26:17] Unknown:
Framework.
[01:26:18] Unknown:
Yeah. Because you mentioned repairability and stuff is Framework. Their website is literally frame.work. They are pioneers in kind of repairable modular laptops. They are Linux first, I believe, and are fairly reasonably priced. They do different sizes, shapes, colors, and stuff, and you can kind of customize. Because it's so modular, You can customize, each machine to be very much suited to you with the ports, the keyboard style, the trackpad style. You know, the world is literally your oyster with a framework in terms of how customized how customized you want it to be.
So so that that's another good option.
[01:27:00] Unknown:
Yeah. I've heard a few people say good things about framework laptops. I've used a few different laptops over the years, and I know, like, people get annoyed with it, but I still think that a MacBook is just the best laptop. In terms of the build quality, like how long they've lasted for me, the trackpads, the quality of everything, quality of the build, how long does the battery last, do things just work. Like, I've personally just found that as the the best option. But running Linux on one, no. Not really.
[01:27:35] Unknown:
Yep. And then to round out the show, we've got two, tongue in cheek questions. The first one comes from bitter twenty one on Nosta. And this is off the back of me sending out a gloating note yesterday morning mentioning that I got eleven and a half hours sleep, which is completely Oh, you fucking can. Yeah. Well, that was the the gist of the question from bitter twenty one. He said, how the fuck did you do this, essentially? And and and, the the clue is, the kid was at the grandparents, so we didn't get woken up at Oh, nice.
[01:28:08] Unknown:
That sounds amazing.
[01:28:10] Unknown:
It was glorious, mate. Absolutely glorious. And and quite the contrast because the night before, I got, like, four hours. And then the last one comes from our good friend, mister Ben Gunn. And this is a question only he could conjure up. Mhmm. And you haven't seen this because I haven't actually put it on the the show notes. No. I haven't seen it. I'm gonna pose it to you. If it's a nipple, milk comes out. That got me to middle age. But you can have grease nipples, and the grease goes into them, not out. My question is, what really are nipples, and why do they lie?
[01:28:50] Unknown:
I
[01:28:51] Unknown:
sat there eating my breakfast this morning when eating And why do they lie? Yeah.
[01:28:56] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:28:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Left me lost for words that one. I'm not sure we can even answer that, but I I thought the listeners would giggle for us to read out. I genuinely think if you hadn't have told me who that was from, I could have worked it out. Oh, 100%.
[01:29:11] Unknown:
Yeah. It's that weird?
[01:29:14] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. That round is up, mate. It's a great way to finish. Thanks for that, Ben. Hope you're well. Yeah. Thanks, mate.
