03 September 2024
Offering Veterans Alternative Medicine With John Launius and Will Wisner - E383
Will Wisner is an experienced Executive Director with an extensive history of working in the non-profit organization management industry. He is the head of the Grunt Style Foundation, a national nonprofit organization committed to providing life changing resources and experiences for service members, Veterans, and their families.
John Launius is a seasoned executive with a diverse background in government, education, technology, media, marketing, and health and wellness. He is the head of Shihan Consultants, a business focused around building and nurturing leadership, characterizing the name of the business, meaning, "Leader of Leaders."
In this episode of the VCP we talk about the absolute power of smell, particularly with incense, the devastating effects of SSRIs on its users including the path that a veteran can stumble down that can ultimately lead toward suicide, and why the government has been slow to attempt these alternative styles when trying to treat people with these moral and physical challenges.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
6:22 - Kodo: The Way Of Incense
22:53 - SSRIs are "Zombie dope"
28:10 - What leads someone to su*cide?
37:35 - What is being done to push back against SSRIs?
46:42 - Grunt Style non-profit
56:33 - How do scents help people?
1:07:16 - Paige Figi's story
1:19:00 - Where to find Will and John
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:06
Speaker 1
So when you talk about the weird stuff that's going on with veterans right now, what what comes to mind?
00:00:05:08 - 00:00:16:21
Speaker 2
Well, primarily we're in a suicide epidemic. And as the Global War on Terror era veteran, you know, next ten years, you know, the top end of that generation starts getting closer to retirement age. You're going to see these suicides spike.
00:00:16:23 - 00:00:34:06
Speaker 1
When you brought up SSRI as we were getting ready for this. I was I jumped at this because you have an expertise in it or at least seeing the effect of it. But I have tried to get doctors and psychologists to come on and talk about SSRI and they're like, oh, come on. But we can't talk about that.
00:00:34:06 - 00:00:46:03
Speaker 1
I don't want to talk about that. And it's been like astounding to me. Like, I've had people willing to come on this podcast and talk about all kinds of things. But when it comes to SSRI, they're not interested in, in chatting about it.
00:00:46:09 - 00:00:55:23
Speaker 2
And I firmly believe that religion is for those that are scared of hell. And I feel that spirituality practices are for people that have already spent some time.
00:00:56:01 - 00:01:03:22
Speaker 3
Hi everyone. I'm Oliver Crowe, a second grade student and aspiring YouTuber, and you're listening to the Coral podcast.
00:01:03:23 - 00:01:36:08
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. John Launius returns with a man named Will Wizner. Longtime listeners of the podcast will remember John Money as came on the podcast two years ago, and rocked my world with an innocence experience. Today, Launius returns to conduct an informal incense ceremony while introducing me to Will Wizner from the Grunt Style Foundation, a group that supports veterans to get the help they need to overcome the moral and physical traumas that come from war.
00:01:36:09 - 00:02:04:08
Speaker 1
During this conversation, we discussed the grant style Foundations integration event that's going to be held in the middle of September for alternative healing workshops and more. They're going to explore plant medicines, yoga, Japanese incense in a very serene setting called Sherwood Forest, just a little ways outside of Saint Louis. They're doing this to help people suffering in pain, that the traditional medicine system has not been able to help.
00:02:04:10 - 00:02:25:17
Speaker 1
While the Grant Style Foundation focuses on veterans. The event is open to anyone that is suffering from pain and wants additional options. When I heard about this, I knew close friends and people that I care a great deal about that have struggled to find a way to manage pain and even though they have access to great medical care.
00:02:25:22 - 00:02:50:04
Speaker 1
Something just hasn't worked for them. So I wanted to share what we'll had with you. This conversation is pretty intense. We discuss the path that a veteran can stumble down that can ultimately lead toward suicide, and why the government has been slow to attempt these alternative styles when trying to treat people with these moral and physical challenges. And all of this is going on.
00:02:50:04 - 00:03:08:19
Speaker 1
Our conversation is happening while John Launius is burning incense. And one of the things that happens throughout the experience is he says, hey, take a moment. What are you experiencing? How is this changing the quality of your thoughts? And while you may not be able to smell the incense, it should bring something a little bit extra to the conversation.
00:03:08:21 - 00:03:33:21
Speaker 1
We're going to get to that interview in just a moment. But this week we did several legacy interviews, and one sticks out in particular because a longtime friend of mine, a man named Jay Curtis, drove with his wife ten hours down from Ontario, Canada, to do a day long interview with me. And it was an amazing experience to interview a friend and a mentor.
00:03:33:22 - 00:03:58:02
Speaker 1
But there was something that Jay said after the interview that I wanted to share. And normally I don't talk about individuals that have done interviews or certainly anything they've said, but Jay actually encouraged me to talk about this at the end of Jay's interview before we turned off the cameras. I asked a final question, Jay, what changed about your life because you married Kareen?
00:03:58:04 - 00:04:31:22
Speaker 1
Jay looked at his wife and out came a long, almost poetic explanation of how he felt and what she meant to him over all these years. His lovely wife looked up at him like a young girl, taking in a deep breath. And after he was done, she said, you've never told me that before. After they embraced, Jay turned to me and said that he didn't know during his interview he'd be able to put so much of his emotions into words and that he thought I ought to tell more men that I can help you save the things that you feel, but don't find words.
00:04:31:22 - 00:04:57:01
Speaker 1
For with the women you owe so much to you. I never thought to talk about that aspect of legacy interviews, but Jay's story is one I have seen many times, a couple capturing that spark and that complex nature of their relationship. Future generations are going to be able to look at these moments and say, that's what I want in my marriage, and hopefully it will help them marry as well as jaded.
00:04:57:02 - 00:05:17:13
Speaker 1
If you would like to book a legacy interview for you and your spouse so you can have the opportunity to share things that are difficult for you to put into words. Go to Legacy interviews.com to find out more. All right, without further ado, let's head to my incense filled conversation with John Launius and will Wizner. John Launius, Will Wizner.
00:05:17:17 - 00:05:19:07
Speaker 1
Welcome to the podcast.
00:05:19:08 - 00:05:19:19
Speaker 4
Thank you very.
00:05:19:22 - 00:05:20:15
Speaker 2
Much for having.
00:05:20:17 - 00:05:42:22
Speaker 1
So, John, you are the rare guest that, has a say in how my podcast goes because we had such a wild experience when you did the first incense journey, which I was totally resistant to, I was like, don't bring your incense stuff. You brought it and we did it and it was great. So when you said, hey man, I have something important to talk about, I was like, all right, come on, come on down, let's do it.
00:05:43:02 - 00:05:48:12
Speaker 1
And this time you're set up for an incense journey is pretty amazing. So what do you have going on here?
00:05:48:12 - 00:06:16:23
Speaker 4
So what I decided to do this time was take you back 700 years to the Roman period in Japan. So the Muromachi period follows the Han period in Japan and during the Han period. Why this is important is that during the Han period 794 to 1185 essentially is when the Japanese and the Chinese were sharing a great deal of information around art and around philosophy, and around how you set up government and things like that.
00:06:17:01 - 00:06:38:03
Speaker 4
And so during the Muromachi period, what developed was something called kodo. Kodo, meaning the way of incense. Don't meaning the way call meaning incense. So what you're looking at today different from the first time. So, I think in the first podcast, we didn't even see an image of this electric warmer. What we're seeing here is that you're looking at something called the moon quarter.
00:06:38:04 - 00:06:55:11
Speaker 4
And the moon quarter is called the incense listening vessel. And so if we were doing a true full Japanese incense ceremony, what we would do is we would pass this around.
00:06:55:13 - 00:07:17:12
Speaker 4
And I'm speeding this up a little bit. But basically we would take three inhales and then turn your head to the side and blow out and then come in again. And so what this begins to do is this, this begins to speak about using incense, using fragrance as a way of appreciation. And this relates to the conversation that we're going to have with Will and the event that's coming up September 13th or 15th.
00:07:17:14 - 00:07:42:16
Speaker 4
But I thought it might be fun. As we weave the conversation today to take you through a whole number of fragrances, incense. And again, if we were doing a traditional Japanese incense ceremony, first of all, we wouldn't be sitting the way we're sitting. We would be sitting, you know, on the floor, usually in the seasonal position or other forms of sitting that are more, you know, you know, traditional, but you're getting just a very subtle fragrance of Bianco.
00:07:42:16 - 00:08:03:03
Speaker 4
Dan Bianco, Don is the Japanese word for sandalwood. Sandalwood, true sandalwood. Since mom album comes from India. But what I'll do is that as we're moving through the conversation, is that I may also jump between the two of these. And so we'll have a fragrant conversation in many ways as we begin to warm up, in what we're talking about.
00:08:03:04 - 00:08:21:21
Speaker 1
Yes. So you brought in Will. Who is somebody I just met just sitting out there in the in the room in the office, and we had a fantastic conversation. But you have an incredibly unique background. I've never met anybody like you. Why don't you tell people who who you're with and what you're kind of doing? I don't even know how to start on that.
00:08:21:21 - 00:08:25:13
Speaker 1
It's a big thing. Take the time you need to explain what it is that you do. Sure.
00:08:25:13 - 00:08:45:10
Speaker 2
My name is Bill Wizner. I'm the executive director for the Grunt Style Foundation, and we are the nonprofit arm of the largest, patriotic apparel brand in the United States called Grunt Style. And, we are engaged in four areas of primary work, the biggest of which is mental health and wellness, specifically in the arena of suicide prevention.
00:08:45:12 - 00:09:13:17
Speaker 2
And we're focused on, active duty military veterans, law enforcement, firefighters, EMS. So all the first responder, community, we also focus on issues of, food insecurities amongst active duty members. If you can believe that, that that's actually a big issue, but 1 in 3, active duty lower enlisted is food insecure. Then, homelessness and transition from active duty military into the civilian world.
00:09:13:17 - 00:09:16:19
Speaker 2
So that's kind of the area and scope of our work.
00:09:16:21 - 00:09:36:02
Speaker 1
You know, it's wild to think about. When I was growing up, there were in my small home town, you'd have the one guy that stood up at the corner, and he had the Mia flag. And, you know, he's a little bit different. Everybody kind of gave him his space and then that kind of went away. But really, after talking to you, I'm realizing it didn't go away.
00:09:36:02 - 00:09:49:03
Speaker 1
It just went way underground, where there's all of these people that have been serving in the military and the government is, I don't know, not not engaging with them in the way that they had promised. Would you agree with that?
00:09:49:03 - 00:10:06:20
Speaker 2
I would absolutely agree with that. You know, the, and it is really kind of a region or a large part of the reason for our work. The motto of the Veterans Administration is to care for he who has borne the battle and for the widow and his orphan. And, they're just not doing the real good job of that.
00:10:06:20 - 00:10:28:08
Speaker 2
And so that's where we come in, you know, we try to step into the gap of those areas that the VA either does not have the ability, or the inclination to engage in some of these things. And we really, want to focus on these issues that everybody understands is a problem. But for whatever reason, whether it's political or societal, and it's just taboo.
00:10:28:14 - 00:10:48:22
Speaker 2
Well, those things that everybody knows, our problems are there and there's clear solutions, whether it's to engage in this or just to stop engaging in that. That's the area we want to focus on, and we want to draw attention to that. We want to elevate those items and get this, train back on the right tracks because it's it's, times are weird.
00:10:49:03 - 00:11:06:13
Speaker 2
And as you mentioned, you know, when I was a kid, we still had the World War Two guys, you know, that were around. And, I think if, some of the crazy stuff that goes on today were, those guys were still around, I think we would be in a much different environment. I know how much of this they tolerate and and let pass.
00:11:06:15 - 00:11:11:13
Speaker 1
So when you talk about the weird stuff that's going on with veterans right now, what what comes to mind?
00:11:11:15 - 00:11:34:09
Speaker 2
Well, primarily we're in a suicide epidemic. And as the Global War on terror era veteran, you know, next ten years, you know that that top end of that generation starts getting closer to retirement age. You're going to see these suicides spike. And to put this into context, you know, we lost 57,000, service members during Vietnam. We lost a combined total of 8000 between Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
00:11:34:11 - 00:12:06:01
Speaker 2
But yet since 911, we've lost 150,000 veterans to suicide. This is outrageous. If this were any other topic in any other community, I think, people's hair would be on fire and there would be calls all over the place to do something. But given the nature of what is at the root of this problem, which we believe is overprescription of SSRI antidepressants, benzos, all these things that, you know, primarily have a, the biggest side effect is suicidal ideation.
00:12:06:01 - 00:12:24:02
Speaker 2
So we're taking people with suicidal ideation and we're giving them pills that make them more suicidal. I mean, like, only the government could even come up with such a thing. And this is not something unique to the veteran community. You know, this is society wide. In fact, it's global. You know, the Europeans are actually quite, quite a bit ahead of us on this issue.
00:12:24:04 - 00:12:38:23
Speaker 1
So let's start at the beginning of this, which is people coming. They're in a lot of pain and they are suicidal. Why? What's going on that people have so much pain that they even get into the world of SSRI eyes and benzodiazepines.
00:12:38:23 - 00:12:58:18
Speaker 2
Well, I think those are probably, you know, now we're kind of dealing, in the words of pain management with opioids. There's absolutely an overprescription, issue on the arena of opioids. That's that's a different topic, although it is involved in it. When we're talking on these issues of these antidepressants, the VA is under tremendous pressure to get people into the system and treated.
00:12:58:18 - 00:13:19:13
Speaker 2
If you remember, back to the Phoenix, waiting list scandal is, what, around 2012, 2013. So during there, there was a wait list that these guys were, waiting to be seen by a primary care provider through the VA down in Phoenix, Arizona. And, they were falsifying records, saying they had been seen when they hadn't, you know, meanwhile, they're being bumped.
00:13:19:13 - 00:13:45:10
Speaker 2
And, you know, people are dying waiting on this waitlist. Well, that brought tremendous pressure on the VA, to correct that. That led into the Clay hunt actor on 2014 2015 timeframe. So we're in there, where we charged the VA again with throwing a lot of money at it into the realm of psychiatry. You know, I believe that that is resulted even, more, you know, into these pills, because these are complex health issues that people are dealing with.
00:13:45:10 - 00:14:05:05
Speaker 2
You know, our signature illness from Iraq and Afghanistan was this issue of burn pits where they are they you know, it's crazy. The military industrial complex people think of in terms of bombs and bullets. But in my era, when I'm on forward operating base hammer, you know, we had Pizza Hut, we had subway, we had green beans, coffee there on the farm.
00:14:05:05 - 00:14:32:03
Speaker 2
Right. So, imagine a city of 10,000 people that have access to a little shop at where you can go buy cans of soda, bags of Doritos. Hey, you can go over and eat at, pizza Hut. You can go to the Kellogg Brown and root dining facility that they have there. And you get your little cardboard tray and all the soda you want, you know, for the low price of about $35 per meal, you know, three times a day, times 10,000, just on that, you know, that's the real face of the military industrial complex.
00:14:32:05 - 00:14:49:08
Speaker 2
Think of the trash that that generates. What do you do if you have a community of 10,000 people, they have access to all these things, but no sanitation services. What do you do with that garbage? Well, the government had sent incinerators over there that said shuddered in a box and would never utilize. They just simply couldn't handle the volume.
00:14:49:10 - 00:15:13:00
Speaker 2
So what do you do with that? You dig a pit and you throw all these things into it. Everything from medical waste to dead bodies to blown up vehicles to all the trash from Pizza Hut and green beans. You douse it in jet fuel and you light it on fire. And then we're going to billet you about 100m away, and you're just breathing that smoke night and day, 24 hours a day, for 12 or 15 months at a time during your deployment.
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:35:22
Speaker 4
The most dangerous form of incense in the world, if you really think about it. Right, you're talking about toxic smoke and fragrance going out and people ingesting this and coming up with horrible diseases that as a as a byproduct. And so I think that your experience, this, this juxtaposition between the, the event that we're going to be talking about coming up, you know, is really powerful.
00:15:35:22 - 00:15:42:20
Speaker 4
So thanks for sharing that, because I had not heard you explain at that level the way you just did.
00:15:42:22 - 00:15:59:08
Speaker 2
And it's more insidious than that. Even, because now you and all these things come together. And I know this is a long, meandering story here, but it does tie together. You know, you're exposed this you're sleeping next to us, you're breathing this stuff night and day, and then you go home and you're going into the VA saying, I'm sick.
00:15:59:08 - 00:16:22:13
Speaker 2
Well, the signature issue in the guard era from burn pits was this issue called constrictive bronchiolitis. It's a scar tissue in the alignment of the lungs. Essentially the fever blister forms and it grows around all the time and the scar tissue until you can no longer diffuse oxygen into the bloodstream. Right. So when you go to the VA, they're not equipped for this extremely complex type of, engagement.
00:16:22:15 - 00:16:39:01
Speaker 2
Right. So they're coming in saying, hey, I was a world class athlete. You know, the day I left to go to Iraq and I came home, now I go up and down the steps and I may not be able to to do that without having to take a stop and a breather or what's going on. Well, okay, lung issue, we're going to send you over for a pulmonary function test.
00:16:39:01 - 00:16:59:18
Speaker 2
They go to do the pulmonary function test. They're going to pass that test. Because that test measures oxygen air lung capacity not oxygen diffusion. So you're you don't have a problem with the amount of volume of air that your lungs can hold. That's how does it get into the bloodstream with those oxygenation. Right. So. Well, you came back normal.
00:16:59:18 - 00:17:21:19
Speaker 2
Therefore, we have to diagnose you with something. There's, there's there's a big drive to get you down there. You have a moral compass injury. You've seen or done something that is so contrary to your sense of right and wrong that it has shattered your psyche and you're now manifesting phantom illnesses. Here you go. Have some SSRIs and some anti-depressants to help you deal with that and get you on down the road.
00:17:21:19 - 00:17:46:13
Speaker 2
Well, they're not addressing the physiological symptoms. And so what ends up is this death spiral into now you think you're crazy. Your family thinks you're crazy, you're on the head meds. Meanwhile, you still have these physiological issues. You can't work. You know, the bills start to mount, financial pressures ensue. Next thing you know, you're living in mom and dad's basement with the wife and the kid, and pressures continue to mount.
00:17:46:15 - 00:18:05:05
Speaker 2
Know you have a hard time looking yourself in the mirror. You know you're a failure. All these things are, you know, that chatter in your mind. Wife takes the kid, leaves. Of course. People are eating bullets at the rate of 22, veterans a day. Of course they're doing that. And on top of it, the solution modality that they're being given makes them more suicidal.
00:18:05:05 - 00:18:21:19
Speaker 2
So it's we're we're slowly torturing veterans to the point of suicide. And that's where our program, war Cry for change comes in, where we have a, if you go to our website at, Grunge Style foundation.org, well, the first thing you're going to see on that screen is video series we did called, prescription, of suicide.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:28:10
Speaker 2
That's, part of that explains this, this issue and the, the, impact that that type of practice, brings.
00:18:28:12 - 00:18:44:03
Speaker 1
You mentioned something there. I'm not familiar with a moral compass disorder. Injury. Injury? Yeah. And this is something that they use as a way to say we understand that you're in pain, but it's the psychological it's it's PTSD yet.
00:18:44:03 - 00:18:44:20
Speaker 2
Correct.
00:18:44:22 - 00:18:53:11
Speaker 1
And so this is gone. So they're there presumably at the beginning saying, hey, we've got a diagnosis for you. It's just one that is kind of a catchall.
00:18:53:13 - 00:19:12:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it gives them, the ability to diagnose and it gives them a remedy. So, you know, they're off the book. Well, good luck, because now, you know, it's difficult to navigate the VA system as it is. There's great people in the VA and many times the VA's an excellent facility. But this is a big problem.
00:19:12:16 - 00:19:20:20
Speaker 2
That is, an elephant in the room that has not been addressed. So, you know, it's deadly. We're playing with we're playing with fire.
00:19:20:22 - 00:19:29:04
Speaker 1
So something that the listeners can't tell. But we are now taking in this fragrance. It was sandalwood. It smells like something else. Now, what's going on here, Joe?
00:19:29:04 - 00:19:49:09
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what I've done is that I started with with the sandalwood. So instead of us passing this around, what I, what I'm doing is I'm using two different types of warmers. So you'll notice that there's very little smoke, even if any at all when, when you're seeing this. So when you're using very, very good incense, it's, it's like when you invite someone over for a meal.
00:19:49:11 - 00:20:09:18
Speaker 4
I wouldn't take the steak, the vegetables and the potato, for example, and throw it directly on the flame and then serve it to you. Right? That's, that's, that's kind of gets into what I would call bad incense. What we're doing here is that we're warming these natural fragrances at the most optimal temperature. So we're getting all the benefits of all the chemicals made in nature.
00:20:09:19 - 00:20:29:21
Speaker 4
We're also getting access to terpenes, you know, now with the advent of, of the legalization of marijuana in many places in the country and in the world, we're able to talk about terpenes more freely, even though we could always talk about them. But terpenes control the color, taste and fragrance of everything in the natural world, and these terpenes allow our bodies to heal.
00:20:29:22 - 00:20:52:21
Speaker 4
They trigger things that are antimicrobial. Excuse me? Antimicrobial? Antibacterial. When Will was talking about the scarring on the lungs. Believe it or not, frankincense. You know, is is helpful in opening up the lungs because it is a bronchial dilator. So what you're getting access to right now are yes, are wonderful fragrances that have been used for thousands of years.
00:20:52:23 - 00:21:07:02
Speaker 4
But you're also really so let me ask you this. What do you both notice about the quality of your mind or the quality of your consciousness with these fragrances that you're getting access to? What do you notice that you notice?
00:21:07:04 - 00:21:09:05
Speaker 2
It's conducive to a stillness of the mind.
00:21:09:06 - 00:21:29:18
Speaker 4
Exactly. Yeah. Conducive to the stillness in that we live in a very loud and noisy world. Now, I don't know if anyone has noticed that, right, but the idea here is that there's been tons of studies done on the power of silence and how silence can actually be very healing. You may not, you know, be a professional meditator, for example, where you're learning all the postures and all that.
00:21:29:18 - 00:21:51:14
Speaker 4
But the idea of returning back to stillness allows us to get an interaction with ourselves. It allows us to have reintegration, which is perfect for what we're going to talk about in reintegrating where we are in our in our centered self sometimes, called the eye of the hurricane, for example, it's like there's a lot of people in life who live in this hurricane.
00:21:51:16 - 00:22:15:06
Speaker 4
But getting you to the center calm this is the path of Codo. At one level. There's lots and lots of levels with this, but I thought it would be interesting to juxtapose Will's, you know, story. You know, with, you know, the other side of this, which is, you know, using fragrance, using smoke, using fragrance to be able to, expand your mind, calm your mind and also heal your body.
00:22:15:08 - 00:22:36:08
Speaker 1
Well, the thing that this draws to mind is when people go to, you know, somebody for mental health and they say, I'm in chaos. I feel anxiety through the roof. My, my wife left me or I'm not able to exercise because I was injured, whatever that is. When I have experienced people that are close to me, they get onto an SSRI.
00:22:36:10 - 00:22:53:08
Speaker 1
The surface temperature looks like they're much calmer, but they're definitely away from their normal self. They're not the they don't have that spark of life. When you start thinking about XYZ and their role that they're playing with the veterans, what's going on there?
00:22:53:10 - 00:23:12:18
Speaker 2
Well, in our community, in the veteran community, you know, we refer to these, pills as zombie dope, because it's really what you're doing. You're treating a symptom. You're not treating the root cause. You're not getting down into the deep psychological. Now, there are other wonderful modalities VA does offer with talk therapy and all these things are, you know, great in their own right.
00:23:12:20 - 00:23:38:02
Speaker 2
But when we're, you know, piling masks that we're, we're having people wear to numb, you know, numb their mental chatter rather than deal with the mental chatter, you know, that's a problem, you know, how are you going to, numb yourself to the point where nothing's really affecting you? I mean, it'll work if you're wanting to not have the feels, but, you know, you're you're going to get rid of all the feels.
00:23:38:02 - 00:23:57:07
Speaker 2
You're going to get rid of the good ones, right along with the bad ones. Now, you're not really getting rid of them. You're just kind of suppressing them. And, you know, is that a still mind? I don't think so. I think there's a difference between a still mind and clarity and purpose than what? There is a still mind in a drug haze.
00:23:57:09 - 00:24:02:23
Speaker 4
Well, I was going to say when I got present you when you said that is that there's absolute truth in talking things out.
00:24:02:23 - 00:24:03:09
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:24:03:11 - 00:24:26:19
Speaker 4
And so if we're not, you know, we are emotional beings on one level. And so, you know, one of my favorite quotes is that the person who controls the questions controls the emotions. The person who controls the emotions controls the outcome. And so if we are able or when we are able to use natural healing modalities to control our emotions, then we can start to release and let things out.
00:24:26:21 - 00:24:41:15
Speaker 4
You know, sometimes there's this, analogy or metaphor, depending on how you want to use it, but have you ever taken a piece of paper and tried to fold it more than seven times? You can't do it right? And so for a lot of people, it's like their life is a lot like, okay, I have stress. I'm going to fold it again.
00:24:41:15 - 00:24:59:13
Speaker 4
I have stress, I have stress, I have stress. Well, when you get to that seventh fold and you can't fold, any more than that can represent a breakdown. And so this, these modalities and some of the things that we're going to talk about a little bit later on is this idea of unfolding of, of of opening these things up so that we can then release the things that we need to release.
00:24:59:13 - 00:25:02:01
Speaker 4
So we get back to that moment of clarity.
00:25:02:03 - 00:25:19:07
Speaker 1
When you brought up SSRI, as we were getting ready for this, I was I jumped at this because you have an expertise in it or at least seeing the effect of it, but I have tried to get doctors and psychologists to come on and talk about XYZ, and they're like, oh, come on, but we can't talk about that.
00:25:19:10 - 00:25:31:06
Speaker 1
I don't want to talk about that. And it's been like astounding to me. Like, I've had people willing to come on this podcast and talk about all kinds of things. But when it comes to XYZ, they're not interested in, in chatting about it.
00:25:31:06 - 00:25:41:20
Speaker 2
Well, of course, I mean, and I think, you know, it's self-evident, you know, you ever watch, cable news? What what is the, what's the majority of commercials when you're watching?
00:25:41:20 - 00:25:52:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, there is, there are pharma. And the way that works is maybe they don't say what this, say about your pharmaceutical, but they know if our money goes away, salaries won't get paid, and you're laying people off.
00:25:52:12 - 00:26:07:08
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. And for one and for two, think about what the protection that provides the pharmaceutical industry. You know what? Why do I need to see commercials for Zoloft on, Fox News? You know what? I'm not going to be inspired to go run down to the drugstore and buy Zoloft. I can access it. I got to have a prescription.
00:26:07:14 - 00:26:24:14
Speaker 2
So I'm going to go to my doctor and say, hey, I saw this thing on the news. I want the Zoloft. And they're going to say, well, okay, here, no, they're going to have whatever they're peddling that day or whatever they're incentivized to pay that. So why does Big Pharma spend so much money bombarding us with commercials for these pharmaceuticals?
00:26:24:15 - 00:26:40:17
Speaker 2
Well, I don't think it has anything to do with us or the or the or the audience. I think it has to do with they're now the biggest customer for the news media. They who control the narrative of what you're hearing. You think that's insurance. The news media is going to go against our cash cow and carry these stories.
00:26:40:18 - 00:26:56:04
Speaker 2
I mean, this isn't some esoteric, obscure information that we're talking about in the dangers of overprescription of these SSRI is and the potential side effects that go along with them. You know, no, this is insurance. This is their it's to insure that they're not going to engage in they can avoid those problems.
00:26:56:08 - 00:27:06:05
Speaker 1
So keep us going down the path of the SSRI. So somebody gets on that. You're calling them a zombie drug. What then goes how does that proceed for them.
00:27:06:07 - 00:27:22:23
Speaker 2
Well, I mean it can go a lot of different ways. You know, I had a, one of our friends, here very recently went on Wellbutrin for, smoking cessation. Week and a half later, the guy that was not suicidal before this and know, you know, took his life with a shotgun upstairs with his family in the house.
00:27:22:23 - 00:27:39:20
Speaker 2
I mean, these things can go that violently that fast, or they can be a prolonged, slow, torturous death if it leads to that. You know, I mean, these are there's a lot of these pills that aren't used, you know, are not meant to be used for prolonged periods of time, that we keep running into people through our work that have been on it for a staggering amount of time.
00:27:39:22 - 00:27:59:11
Speaker 2
It's it's very, very hard to come down off of these pills. It's is every bit as much of an addiction, as some of these opioids. But it's not an addiction in the sense that you're chasing a high. It's that you have to take them or else the consequences are severe. You know, they call it the brain zaps, right?
00:27:59:11 - 00:28:06:15
Speaker 2
You know, I mean, these things are staggering. You'll do anything to make that pain stop up to and including suicide. It's that it's that intense.
00:28:06:17 - 00:28:20:07
Speaker 1
So you've been around a lot of veterans and you're trying to combat the the epidemic of suicides. Talk a little bit about the chatter that goes on in a man's life that leads him down the path of suicide.
00:28:20:09 - 00:28:44:06
Speaker 2
Well, I think the example I gave earlier is about as good of an explanation as what I can get. I mean, you know, you you view yourself as this person. You know, you're on one day when you're still in the military, if you're deployed, you're over, talking to Muqtada in a village and, you know, literally you're 28 years old, staff sergeant, and you are now a representative, the United States government, you're conducting foreign policy, you know, I mean, that's that's that's the level of what you are.
00:28:44:08 - 00:29:14:02
Speaker 2
And then you come home and maybe you're doing whatever, you know, that's that your identity stripped away from you, the camaraderie stripped away from you. There's all these empty voids. How do your places, how do you fill those? How do you deal with what it is that you're bringing back, whether it's a health issue, you know, like something from the burn pits or whether it's just how do you reconcile you know, the wartime experience, you know, that will make you wonder, you know, it's all like in my instance, like I knew I had lived, in a very bad place.
00:29:14:02 - 00:29:30:22
Speaker 2
I was exposed to very bad things, and I knew that it had negatively impacted my health. But when you go and you talk to your health care provider about that and that topic of, you know, post-traumatic stress comes up like, okay, well, yeah, that's fair. I have some of that as well, you know, and then you go down that road and, you know, suddenly the lines are blurred.
00:29:30:22 - 00:29:48:00
Speaker 2
And now you're treating these physiological symptoms with psychological modalities and all these problems begin. You're not really ever getting down to addressing the root cause. You start, you know, I mean, ultimately you're crazy and you're crazy because you did bad things and then own, you know, you go in, hey, this pill isn't working. And they say, oh, okay, no problem.
00:29:48:00 - 00:30:03:14
Speaker 2
Let's just dial in, let's dial it in. Let's get you on the right, man. You do that 2 or 3 times, you go back. Now you're a pill seeker, so now you're crazy and you're crazy because you did bad things. Oh, and you're a pill seeker. Meanwhile, your your family, seeing all this, you know, they're seeing you, through the eyes that, you know, you're seeing yourself through.
00:30:03:14 - 00:30:26:04
Speaker 2
And none of these are good. They it's a hell and it's own. You know, I like to tell people, you know, for why we're reaching out to these modalities of practitioners like John. You know, they're offering a spiritual connection. And I firmly believe that religion is for those that are scared of hell. And I feel that spirituality practices are for people that have already spent some time there.
00:30:26:06 - 00:30:30:03
Speaker 2
And it's for everybody. But I think that's, in our case, that's, that's that's the hope.
00:30:30:05 - 00:30:56:22
Speaker 4
Well, and and even take that one step more like so I work with the special operations charity network. Special operations Charity network is partnered with Grand Style Foundation. And so what I'm doing is that I'm working with veterans and people, with anyone who is dealing with any form of, of of PTSD. This is not a joke, but it sometimes comes out as a joke, which is that we think that sometimes PTSD is only reserved for people who have been in the military and have done bad things.
00:30:56:22 - 00:31:27:03
Speaker 4
To Will's point, when in actuality, running a business can be just as traumatic, right? And so and so the idea here is that if you don't know about these modalities, if you don't know natural ways to return back to your center self, that's the natural part of you. Before you had all these experiences that were overwhelming, that that caused either what we call imprints in the hypnosis world, or other kinds of blockages that keep us from becoming the radiant, true person that we really are.
00:31:27:05 - 00:31:45:04
Speaker 4
This has been done for thousands of years. So if we're just looking at the Japanese tradition, you know, 700 years with the Kyoto ceremony, but we know that incense appreciation starts in Japan 1400 years ago with the advent of Buddhism in 550 A.D. we can then go back to Korea. We can go back to China, we can go back to India.
00:31:45:04 - 00:32:06:02
Speaker 4
We can go all the way back to the written history of incense, which is 6000 years old. What we talk about, how do we use fragrance, sense of the divine by whichever name that you want to call it to, to return back to that center. Like I'm finding myself like right now I'm having problems concentrating a little bit because I'm relaxing, you know, with these fragrances.
00:32:06:02 - 00:32:21:14
Speaker 4
So in the 30 years of talking about this, in the 42 years of study that I've done, I started this at nine years old, is that I've trained myself to talk through these feelings. But when I'm working with somebody and I and I find out, for example, that they were a breacher, you know, they were they were on a high speed team.
00:32:21:14 - 00:32:51:08
Speaker 4
They were a breacher. Well, I'm, I have a background in high explosives. And so I understand with Penta ready to talk tetra nitrate is I understand what these explosives are that have their own experience, their own fragrance, all of that. And so the last point I'll make, at least at this point, is, is that we don't realize that though we are seeing and feeling everything in our natural world or in the in the world itself, we forget that our sense of smell is recording everything, and our conscious and our subconscious mind in that.
00:32:51:08 - 00:33:10:13
Speaker 4
Here's the example. When you walk into somebody's house and you've never been to their house before, how long do you smell their house before it disappears for you? 30s maybe. Yeah, 30s to a minute and a half, depending right now, if they start cooking and things like that, it changes up. Right. But we we've been doing this our entire life.
00:33:10:18 - 00:33:32:08
Speaker 4
So as you walk into a new environment, you smell the environment and then it disappears because of olfactory orientation. All of the receptors in our in our nasal system, you know, in our, in our olfactory system fill up. Well. And I'm going to be a little dramatic here, okay. If, for example, you're in my house, you've been in my house for an hour, you no longer smell anything, and all of a sudden a murder takes place.
00:33:32:10 - 00:33:48:19
Speaker 4
Well, that's going to be overwhelming. It's going to be. I mean, it's going to shock you. It's going to shock you to the core of your being. Well, what's going to happen is that that part of your brain is going to remember the smell of that. So when you go someplace else in your world and you remember that smell, you're right back in it.
00:33:48:21 - 00:34:14:03
Speaker 4
And so when you are using therapies like this, I'm going to use the word therapy. You know, you aroma therapy in this case is that you're inviting to a certain extent, the ability for people to re-experience things from a distance standpoint and begin to remove the emotional connection to it. So the other piece of this at Special Operations Charity network, as well as Grand Style Foundation, we work with licensed therapist.
00:34:14:07 - 00:34:32:14
Speaker 4
This is not just us ad hoc, you know, very irresponsibly moving around is that I will work with a lot of license therapists who are like, look, I'm John, I have a client who, you know, is not they're not really responding to some of the things that we're talking about. And I know what this does because, I mean, you guys are experiencing it.
00:34:32:14 - 00:34:45:11
Speaker 4
I'm obviously the viewer isn't right now, but these fragrances that begin to relax you and open you and then you are then more comfortable to begin to share. And from the earlier point, there is absolute truth to talking things out.
00:34:45:16 - 00:35:14:12
Speaker 1
What's incredible about incense. So you and I've been doing this for like two years now. Yeah. So ever since we did the incense, I had always been like, not just the the burning stick that you would burn in your basement to cover over the weed smell. But like, I just never really thought very much of incense. But now that you've introduced it to me, you realize, hey, that smell, the one that we're taking in right now, there is no other way to get it than to have the actual incense and to burn it at the right temperature.
00:35:14:18 - 00:35:36:06
Speaker 1
So then it gives you an experience, and I completely agree with you the amount of relaxation. It's like the the relaxation that can come from smoking pot, but like without all the mental, you know, separation. Right. Whatever you want to call that. Right. So I am actually having to fight and be in control of like where are we going?
00:35:36:06 - 00:35:38:10
Speaker 1
Because I'd like to just sit and relax.
00:35:38:10 - 00:35:55:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. So go ahead. Listen to Sam. This is the interesting part about this is that one of the things that I fight is the preconceived notion of the 1960s. You just kind of alluded at it a little bit. Right. But one of the first things I'll say to people say, hey, I'm giving a talk coming up. They're like, oh, I, I, I don't like incense.
00:35:55:04 - 00:36:28:12
Speaker 4
And I'm like, really? I said, well, what kind of incense have you burned before? Well, I burn incense like money and love and prosperity. That is not what we do. What we are doing here is fragrances that have been quite literally burned by royalty and by the most affluent cultures in the world for thousands of years. And there's a reason why that every wisdom book in the whole world talks about a pleasing fragrance unto the Lord, or by whichever name you want to call it, is that these are things that were created in the divine for us as human beings.
00:36:28:17 - 00:36:47:17
Speaker 4
If you if you are, if you're a devout Christian and you're looking at the Old Testament or even aspects of the New Testament, and you look at the earliest descriptions of the Garden of Eden, you know, and you and you talk about the clothes that, that, that Adam and Eve were, were supposedly wearing that had the fragrance of the Garden of Eden.
00:36:47:17 - 00:37:10:21
Speaker 4
This is what we're talking about. And this this does get into some of the esoteric world about this. But what I'm doing today is I'm working with, you know, fortune 100, fortune 500 companies, executives that need their head game in the right place. And so this goes beyond executive coaching. This goes into that you can begin to train your mind and your body to be relaxed in all situations.
00:37:10:23 - 00:37:30:23
Speaker 4
And that relaxation is really the power. We're going to talk about this better than I can. But when you're on high speed teams in the military, they're now beginning to teach box breathing or they're beat or combat breathing is is what is referred to. Well, the breath is everything. And so if you begin to regulate your breath and you begin to regulate your mind, anything is possible.
00:37:31:01 - 00:37:41:08
Speaker 1
So with your organization and your push back on SSRI is because you're saying, hey, there's other modalities and this is not looking good. What are you guys doing to push back?
00:37:41:10 - 00:37:58:04
Speaker 2
Well, first off, I also want to take the opportunity to say that we are not suggesting, that anyone using SSRI as are bad or that there's a you don't want to shame anyone. You know, that there is a time and a place for all things. So, you know, definitely want to put that out there as a disclaimer.
00:37:58:04 - 00:38:12:18
Speaker 2
But the amount of, you know, damage in the wake of these things is where we're focusing, and that's what we want to address. And primarily informed consent making people aware that there are these dangers with these things, and they need to understand them before they're oftentimes they're not.
00:38:12:19 - 00:38:27:07
Speaker 1
They're just yeah, they're going on them. And then they don't realize, oh, to come off of this, I mean, that's even the story of somebody like Jordan Peterson, who's a clinical psychologist, gets on benzodiazepines and can't get off, has to go to Russia to try and get off of them. And if he doesn't know, how could any.
00:38:27:07 - 00:38:44:11
Speaker 2
Of us know exactly? And so we certainly do not want to make any like we feel like we're attacking anybody for, you know, if you're somebody out there watching this and you're like, you know, feeling any shame or anything, that's not my intention. But how are we pushing back against this? We're side of the drama. We're just speaking common sense truth.
00:38:44:15 - 00:39:05:05
Speaker 2
You know, there are things out there that do work. We know that these, SSRI guys, while they may have some benefit for some, they're, they're they're essentially marginally better than a placebo in terms of, doing what they hope that they are to be done. We know there are other modalities that are out there. So and that's a big spectrum.
00:39:05:05 - 00:39:34:13
Speaker 2
It's everything from Japanese incense ceremonies to equine therapy to singing bowls to meditation to tai chi and qigong and Akito and, all of those things all the way down to, you know, more controversial things that are hot topics right now with, you know, Amazonian plant medicines and amphibian medicines. You know, these medicines that are coming out of the Amazon and, ayahuasca and Yahweh, even here locally with psilocybin, you know, there are these other options that are out there.
00:39:34:13 - 00:39:54:05
Speaker 2
It's just a matter of accessibility. And in the veteran community, what I find to be particularly outrageous is that, you know, these vets, they go overseas, they they do what they are asked to do. They come home broken and in need of help. And organizations that do have mottos like to care for he who has borne the battle in his widow and his orphan.
00:39:54:07 - 00:40:24:09
Speaker 2
This is what you can access and that's it. So they are forced to go overseas to where these, like ayahuasca, for example, this modality, you know, it's illegal here is dimethyltryptamine. This is a schedule one drug. If you want to access that, you have to go to some place like Colombia or Peru where these, plant medicines are a national treasure, and they, in fact, have laws, in place to protect them to where they cannot be diluted or, you know, limited or restricted.
00:40:24:11 - 00:40:40:01
Speaker 2
That's outrageous that, the American veteran has to go overseas to seek healing for dealing with the consequences of what they have done on behalf of the country. And the country feels like it's it feels like the country is turning its back. On these guys.
00:40:40:03 - 00:40:57:19
Speaker 1
A lot of people, when they think of the, you know, the releasing of these, like letting go the rules on this is something that hippies and drug users want to do, so they can be more free. Do you think the world would be better off if you're if you're releasing the laws to to make it so people can just get them?
00:40:57:19 - 00:41:14:05
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, it's going to have to have some form of regulation. I'm not in a full blown decriminalization mindset. There's an awful lot of people that are opportunist. The want to be gurus and the cult leaders. You know, all that's going to be part of human nature. It's going to be part of this, this, this type of, these modalities as well.
00:41:14:08 - 00:41:31:09
Speaker 2
So it's a threat. And, you know, there has to be a common sense approach to it that said, nobody in their right mind is engaging in powerful psychedelics like ayahuasca, for recreational purposes. I mean, these this is a harrowing experience, right? Often times it is very difficult. They call it warrior medicine. I mean, it is not for everybody.
00:41:31:11 - 00:41:33:23
Speaker 1
Talk about that. What do you mean, warrior medicine?
00:41:34:01 - 00:41:50:19
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, it's an intense experience. You are completely, you know, you're encountering your subconscious, your higher self, however you want to think of it, you are going to battle with these things that you're carrying with you and you and you and you are being presented with it, and you do not have the option to compartmentalize it.
00:41:50:19 - 00:42:15:12
Speaker 2
You do not have the opportunity to forget about it, to shove it down in those dark places, to engage in destructive behaviors is coping mechanisms. It's there. It's in your face, and you're going to have to deal with it. And that experience is oftentimes about eight hours in length. You have to come to terms, and that is where you will find the healing is, you know, having that internal conversation with yourself that oftentimes you're too scared to have.
00:42:15:14 - 00:42:21:11
Speaker 1
Well, that goes with what John was saying about the conversation is an important part of the healing process.
00:42:21:13 - 00:42:44:05
Speaker 4
And one of the things that when you talk about conversation, one of the things that I want to do before we end today is I'm going to introduce the both of you to the master incense. It is the incense that is considered the highest level of of aloes wood. It's called Kiara. And what it does is it produces the mental clarity of a 30 minute meditation in a single inhalation, and it doesn't last very long.
00:42:44:05 - 00:43:04:04
Speaker 4
So when Will was talking about that eight hour experience? I have never done psychedelics, and I probably never will do psychedelics because I have had a lifetime of of having what I might you what you might say is like a soft or gentle, you know, reforming of the mind keeping me from going too far in one direction.
00:43:04:04 - 00:43:24:15
Speaker 4
But this is what I love about the integration weekend, and I and I can't wait to talk about it because, I mean, you've kind of started to loot at it, but what what the Grand Style Foundation has put together is an incredible weekend where September 13th through 15th in in Troy, Missouri, people are all people. Not just veterans but but active military, you know, veterans, but all people are.
00:43:24:15 - 00:43:32:18
Speaker 1
Going to people experiencing pain, people experiencing like, I need to find some new way to go because the things that have been presented to me now. Yeah. Aren't working.
00:43:32:18 - 00:43:37:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what? So so what was the impetus for for creating the integration weekend?
00:43:37:19 - 00:44:04:03
Speaker 2
Well, the impetus was, to make it accessible. I mean, that is our objective is to make people know that holistic healing modalities exist on a number one. And number two, they're effective. Number three, demystify them. You know, I mean, people watch Joe Rogan, they've heard him talk about DMT and this celebrity's ayahuasca experience. Okay, great.
00:44:04:03 - 00:44:23:20
Speaker 2
For the average person, what does that mean? You know, who has how many thousands of dollars to go down to South America or Central America to engage that practice? What are you know, they're trying to engage in in the underground here inside the United States. How safe is that? What are you looking for? How do you spot these gurus and charlatans and predators that are out there?
00:44:24:01 - 00:44:40:22
Speaker 2
You know, so we want to provide an educational opportunity to empower them with that knowledge. If you're going to go south, this is what you're looking for. This is these are the conditions you're trying to meet. If you're going to take that up on yourself and you are going to engage in, underground, activities here within the United States, here's what you need to be aware of.
00:44:41:00 - 00:45:07:20
Speaker 2
And it's all not psychedelics. Again, we're we're promoting, equine therapy. We're promoting Japanese incense. We're promoting all these different modalities. We're trying to bring to the table, things that we know have benefit. And we want to give the opportunity for people to, number one, learn about them and engage in it. And number two, they have the exponential, component for those that are appropriate, we're not going to be giving ayahuasca to anyone at this event.
00:45:08:01 - 00:45:17:16
Speaker 2
But when you leave, you're going to know more than the average bear on what it is and what it's really about. Same with, a variety of other, methodologies.
00:45:17:18 - 00:45:20:02
Speaker 1
Have you put on an event like this before?
00:45:20:04 - 00:45:36:04
Speaker 2
Not this particular one. No. I mean, this is really the first time out. This is a pilot program. I have no idea if it's going to be, just a handful of people sitting around a campsite, you know, just, you know, breaking the ice and setting the stage for a follow on attempt or if we're going to have tremendous support.
00:45:36:04 - 00:45:44:09
Speaker 2
I hope it's the latter, because this is important stuff, and we want this to be successful. We want people to engage. We want people to understand, we want to bring the community into this.
00:45:44:13 - 00:45:58:19
Speaker 1
I mean, I think it's really incredible that you guys are trying something so new and different, and you're putting together a weekend and just saying, like, we're we're going to jump in and do this. What led you to the point where you were like, all right, we got to do something really different here because this is pretty different.
00:45:58:19 - 00:46:19:02
Speaker 2
Oh, it's entirely different. I mean, we're we're literally bringing in shamans from the Amazon for this event to teach. We are bringing in Lakota medicine man from, from the Oglala, nation out in Pine Ridge, gentleman named, Jalen Garnet. He's going to be offering, what we would probably call the, sweat Lodge, but it's actually has it's a ceremony.
00:46:19:02 - 00:46:42:06
Speaker 2
It's one of the big six seven ceremonies called the nippy. You know, every day break in every dusk. The that ceremony will be offered. It's four rounds. It's very intense. It's also very healing. You know, we will have, practitioners of, meditation and yoga and, you know, all the things that we talked about before will be there teaching.
00:46:42:08 - 00:46:49:14
Speaker 1
Incredible. And, tell me more about your foundation we just jumped right into. But we never really got into the grant style foundation.
00:46:49:16 - 00:47:11:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, again, we're, the nonprofit arm of, the apparel company Grunt Style. Grunt style stood that nonprofit up in April of 2021. Before that grant style, been giving away half $1 million or so year to charity, just in things that were in line with, you know, their, way of looking at the world and what needs to be done.
00:47:11:10 - 00:47:31:09
Speaker 2
It didn't hit all the the check box that they were trying to achieve. So they decided, let's take this a different area. Let's go after this and stand up our own programs. Now, that's kind of where I came in. I before coming to Grand Style, I was a consultant working in the nonprofit, world, trying to engage the issue of military related toxic exposure illnesses.
00:47:31:09 - 00:47:48:18
Speaker 2
That's why I happen to know a lot about, this issue of burn pits. I was on the board of directors for an organization called Burn Pits 360. We worked very closely with John Stewart and, John Field to get that, legislation passed into law. It took about ten, 13 years of my life, working on that.
00:47:48:20 - 00:48:05:05
Speaker 2
And, we just were getting nowhere because Congress was telling us the same thing. The big six Vsos are veteran service organizations were telling us, saying we need to have a political cover, to engage this, we have to build systemic momentum within the veteran community where they understand this is an issue. Well, how do you do that?
00:48:05:05 - 00:48:22:10
Speaker 2
And why does that fall to a little tiny nonprofit like Burn Pits or 60 to go out and accomplish? So one of our strategies was, was, well, we've got to educate the veterans. Where where do you how do you do that? You know, so we went to the veteran entrepreneurial, sector. So we we targeted grunt style. They have a massive audience, a huge.
00:48:22:10 - 00:48:39:00
Speaker 2
And there are a number of impressions, or the billions. So we went to them and, just so happened that Tim Johnson, one of the co-owners of Grunt Style, knew all too much about this issue of burn pits. He had lost, many friends and in people. That was from his, unit, to that issue.
00:48:39:00 - 00:48:59:19
Speaker 2
And so he was eager to get involved. And, you know, once we had grunt style, and their media machine behind that, we accomplished more in probably the next three months. And we had done in the previous 13 years combined. We started generating that systemic momentum. Rosie Torres was really leading the way. That was burn pits. 360 getting this out there.
00:48:59:21 - 00:49:18:21
Speaker 2
Then the fall of Afghanistan happened. We pulled out. Despicably. So probably the most embarrassing instance in, American history, the in my book. And that hit veterans hard. And I got a phone call from Tim, you know, saying, hey, I am, struggling with this, you know, as are a lot of us.
00:49:18:23 - 00:49:37:11
Speaker 2
And, I know that you, do this work with these shamans that are, with this ayahuasca stuff, and you're in that field, you know, is this something that might be helpful to me? And so, you know, I, had that resource in connection. We were able to go south and and sit with that medicine, and, and he firsthand saw the healing power.
00:49:37:13 - 00:49:53:01
Speaker 2
Of that modality. And so at that point, he said, hey, look, we've stood up this foundation I'm wanting to get engaged into, you know, actual, programs of our own that we're we have the chance to to move the needle in the direction that we need it to go. I'd love for you to come on and lead that foundation.
00:49:53:01 - 00:50:11:03
Speaker 2
And so, I agreed, the only condition being that, I'm able to operate it here in Saint Louis. So I wasn't looking to leave the area. So now here we are, on South Brentwood Boulevard. Same building that we're in right now is where our office is located. And the rest is just been a whirlwind adventure.
00:50:11:05 - 00:50:25:10
Speaker 1
You mentioned in the in the discussion of the psychedelics, this is like a big, like, a harrowing experience. Have you watched people be healed by this? You've you've been around many, many talk a little bit about that.
00:50:25:12 - 00:50:46:15
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. I mean, you know, this is you're really shifting people's perspective. And, you know, people tend to have two types of mental chatter. And I'm not a psychologist or any kind of a doctor or anything like that. But this is just, you know, I'm a country farmboy from down in those dark mountains and I got some horse sense and I know what I'm looking at.
00:50:46:17 - 00:51:06:15
Speaker 2
And, what I have, come to learn is that these two demons sit on your shoulders, that are this mental chatter generally come in two varieties and one is, judgment, whether that's judgment of yourself, usually in the most negative sense or judgment of others. And then the victimization is on that other shoulder. You know, it's not my fault everyone's out to get me.
00:51:06:15 - 00:51:25:12
Speaker 2
You know, we have a hard time finding and taking ownership of our own role in our problems. And, really what these modalities are doing is they're going to take you into that place where you have the opportunity to explore those things and engage those things and have an honest conversation, perhaps sometimes for the very first time. Other times it's just gentle and healing.
00:51:25:12 - 00:51:49:20
Speaker 2
And I can't explain that spiritual component of this stuff, but it is a spiritual experience. It's oftentimes extremely profound. I've never met an atheist coming out of, any of these ceremonies, and I've seen hundreds and hundreds of veterans go through this process. Now, people from triple amputations, you know, having to deal with, you know, incredibly dark things, down to military sexual trauma.
00:51:49:20 - 00:52:10:06
Speaker 2
I've seen a lot of female veterans that have gone through. They're able to put to bed, you know, some really hard things. One thing that I think, is amazing, in that space is that it's accessible for everyone. But it doesn't mean that it's right for everyone. I do believe that there are two types of people.
00:52:10:06 - 00:52:33:02
Speaker 2
There are those who want to truly heal, and there are those who want to want to heal. And most everybody starts in that second category, and we're all working towards the first. These types of modalities are increase incredibly powerful to position someone to move from that second category to that first category. This isn't something you can just drop in and it's a magic pill and everything's better.
00:52:33:02 - 00:52:57:09
Speaker 2
It doesn't work that way. This is deep, deep spiritual work. People often refer to it as like having 20 years of intense psychotherapy in one evening. And that's right. I have experienced it myself. I have seen it many times with these people. And the other interesting thing here is that what I've also seen is what these veterans, most people are dealing with traumas that have nothing to do with the military when they get there.
00:52:57:11 - 00:53:16:22
Speaker 2
Turns out they're actually dealing with mommy issues or daddy issues or something from the early, early childhood. I've seen that over and over again. There's reasons probably behind that. I believe that, you know, we're we're a volunteer, force, you know, the United States and a lot of people that are going into the military or seeking stability, and, I don't know, the military is really all that stable.
00:53:16:22 - 00:53:24:23
Speaker 2
So we're kind of compounding dramas, like top dramas, perhaps. But when they are doing that work, they're often dealing with those things first and then the military experience.
00:53:24:23 - 00:53:35:01
Speaker 4
What you starting to hit on. The reason why that I felt a resonance with you and what you're doing is because when we're talking about the difference between psychedelics and psychotropic, which is what this is.
00:53:35:01 - 00:53:35:11
Speaker 2
Yep.
00:53:35:13 - 00:54:02:07
Speaker 4
You know, a lot of people don't realize that the subconscious communicates to us through symbols and imagery. And so where we have language with our conscious mind, our subconscious is communicating, you know, again, through symbols and imagery. And this develops between the ages of eight and 13. So if you go back and you look at what you were doing and what you were thinking about between the ages of eight and 13, it will have a direct correlation to what you're doing now as an adult.
00:54:02:13 - 00:54:25:13
Speaker 4
When I think about it, between the ages of eight and 13, I had my first business, which is kind of a joke business with my mother, which was selling Cheerios as donut seeds. Right? But but in that I learned a lot about business. At the same time, I was also learning incense and I was learning martial arts. And so now here I am at 51, you know, working at very high levels of business.
00:54:25:13 - 00:54:49:08
Speaker 4
But I'm also teaching incense, which seems a little bit juxtapose. I mean, the first time I was on the show, you're like, John, you don't look the part, you know? And so going back to what Will was talking about is that when we talk about what's developing between the ages of 1813 with our subconscious and psychedelics, it's a very powerful experience where your subconscious is communicating with you with these symbols and imagery, which can be very overwhelming.
00:54:49:10 - 00:55:16:03
Speaker 4
Conversely, that when we're looking at psychotropic, psychotropic change, the quality of our consciousness, alcohol is a psychotropic. And so it changes the quality of your consciousness. So what if you understand, you know, that's just that's just take the heavy hitters, things like sandalwood, frankincense, camphor, benzoin, cassia, cinnamon, things like that. When you are warming these and you're in the experience of them, it creates a particular kind of consciousness.
00:55:16:08 - 00:55:24:21
Speaker 4
And so when I learned about what, what Will was doing in the integration weekend, and you haven't even talked about some of the other instructors, the woman behind CBD.
00:55:24:23 - 00:55:25:13
Speaker 2
Yes. Paige.
00:55:25:13 - 00:55:50:05
Speaker 4
Phoebe. Yeah. And I mean, this this incredible weekend of instructors are going to people they're going to have an opportunity to get exposed to things that they do. Yes, they could get exposed to through the internet and things like that. But an entire weekend where they get to interact with the people, you know, in real life. And that that for me is really interesting because you cannot experience true incense unless you're in the presence of it.
00:55:50:07 - 00:56:05:03
Speaker 4
You can't. It's like I, you know, if we were away and in a space with no fragrance at all, and I said, remember the smell of a pine tree? We've done this exercise before. You cannot remember the smell of a pine tree. All that happens is you get a mental image. Now there are people like, wait, I think I can almost smell it.
00:56:05:03 - 00:56:22:23
Speaker 4
Yeah, you can almost smell it, but you can't smell. You've got to be in the presence of it. Which is why ancient traditions have talked about how the more incense you burn, the more enlightened you become, because it allows you to get present to whatever that feeling is, what that emotion is. But it's a softer way to go about this.
00:56:23:04 - 00:56:33:12
Speaker 4
And both path, I think, are fine. It's just that, you know, my particular purview is around the fragrance and using this as a soft way to begin to unfold, as we talked about earlier.
00:56:33:17 - 00:56:48:23
Speaker 1
So talk a little bit more about that unfolding. So if somebody is dealing with, you know, incredible trauma that you've described or seeing things that, you know, you only see if you've gone to war, how does having a nice scent help them.
00:56:49:03 - 00:56:58:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what. So I'll, I'll ask you both, what is your favorite fragrance in the entire world?
00:56:58:19 - 00:56:59:08
Speaker 4
What's yours?
00:56:59:08 - 00:57:00:02
Speaker 2
Paulo Santo.
00:57:00:02 - 00:57:32:18
Speaker 4
Palo santo. Okay. So so so Paulo Santo is from South America. It has been integrated in into South American Catholicism. Where, in, in in North American Catholicism, for example, we know about frankincense and myrrh. We, we know frankincense being being burned in the, you know, in the church with the, with the swinging center. Well, Palo Santo is this wonderful fragrance that contains a lot of terpenes like Apennine, and eugenol and other and other chemicals that relax and, and calm the mind.
00:57:32:20 - 00:58:00:23
Speaker 4
You know, nowadays if you go out on Instagram and you meet the spiritual gurus, you know, they'll be on camera with the Paolo Santo and it it kind of looks a little bit woowoo. Right. But when in actuality that that woowoo is a is an entrance into understanding these ancient modalities that that allow you to start to, collapse and communicate for people that have true PTSD or true emotional trauma, one of the first things that they do is they clam up.
00:58:01:01 - 00:58:22:23
Speaker 4
They don't want to talk about it. And because they think, if I hold on to it, then I'm going to be able to to to deal with it when, when in actuality, that's not the case at all. And so going back to the story, talking about working with therapists is that sometimes no form of therapy may be an opening, but if we take that fragrance palo santo or for you, what.
00:58:23:01 - 00:58:24:03
Speaker 1
I was going to say, Kathy.
00:58:24:03 - 00:58:50:10
Speaker 4
Maybe. Kathy. Okay. So so Casey Katie is is the is the incense of of Egypt. It's 3500 years old. That's the recipe for it. It was rediscovered, in the 19th century. At the temple of Ed Fu, where, Heinrich Bruce went in and and he's looking at the, at the at the hieroglyphs. He, he was he was the first person to translate demotic, which is Egyptian cursive.
00:58:50:11 - 00:59:03:03
Speaker 4
Anyway, he moves away the mud, three inches of mud and sees this recipe that's 3500 years old. And so there's lots of iterations of coffee. But when you're in the presence of that, what happens to you?
00:59:03:05 - 00:59:14:12
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm just absolutely relaxed. We did it the other day with incense. You brought me and like, the whole office is just. Yeah, way, way calmer. Just just ready to just take whatever's coming your way. Yeah.
00:59:14:12 - 00:59:35:01
Speaker 4
It relaxed. Whatever comes your way. Right. So then, so there's so there's a couple Japanese words that I will use. What? I'm beginning to talk about this concept. So Mizuno Kokoro mind like water core. No. Kokoro mind like incense. So let's talk a little bit about that. So if you if if you're if you're again out on social media, you might see old clips of Bruce Lee talking about water.
00:59:35:05 - 01:00:07:03
Speaker 4
Water can become many things right? Well, water at its base form is content with the low places that people disdain. Yet it nourishes all things. But water can become that soon it can become that wave. And so as we start to look, it fills any form that it takes. And so when we're looking at our ability to mold and be what we need to be in any environment, the more the more that you are mentally healthy to be able to move and shift, then this gives you the ability to become whatever you need to become.
01:00:07:03 - 01:00:29:13
Speaker 4
Not that you're being fake, but that you are that. That you're literally being who you need to be in any moment in life. Because oftentimes we feel like we are impersonating or that, you know, the, the, the, the, the imposter syndrome goes into play. So using different modalities, meditation, incense, I could I could keep going starts to allow yourself to be comfortable in the uncomfortable.
01:00:29:13 - 01:00:49:12
Speaker 4
And that's my favorite definition of mastery is being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Because life is always uncomfortable because work is we're living and and and fear is always present. And sometimes in my public talks, people said, oh, I've always had a guy's like, well, I'm not afraid of anything. I'm like, really? Okay, well, if you're really being honest with yourself, fear is always present.
01:00:49:12 - 01:01:04:06
Speaker 4
So let me give you an example. If you were, if you've never been to New York City and you're going to drive into the city and you're going to find a parking spot, there might be a little bit of fear that comes up like, oh my gosh, where am I going to park? How am I going to, you know, what's going to be there?
01:01:04:06 - 01:01:23:14
Speaker 4
So I'm not saying that you're always afraid, but there's always that fear about what goes on because we are fear based beings. So this gives us the opportunity to start to, collapse that. So circling back completely to the original part of your question is that when you're in the presence of a fragrance that you enjoy, it naturally starts to relax you.
01:01:23:14 - 01:01:42:16
Speaker 4
So when I'm working with people, either in the personal incense journey, which is I'm going to give you guys the experience of the personal incense journey at the end with the Kiara. Is that what this will produce? And I don't mean to tell you what you're going to experience, but what it does is that it produces the mental clarity of a 30 minute meditation in a single inhalation.
01:01:42:18 - 01:02:02:22
Speaker 4
And what it does is that as a neural sedative, it starts to slow the thoughts. And so if you if your head is full of thought all the time, you don't get to experience the rest of the world around you. There's an ancient quote that talks about how no mind gives you an experience of the divine. The Japanese talk about no mind.
01:02:02:23 - 01:02:24:08
Speaker 4
And what does that mean? Does that mean that I'm unconscious? No, it just means that my life, I am in complete control of my thoughts. My thoughts don't run me. And and again, back to back to the integration weekend. There are many parts of the mountain and what I'm loving. I'm so excited about this weekend because people are going to go, okay, that's a path for me, John.
01:02:24:08 - 01:02:41:02
Speaker 4
Your path man, not so much, Bob, but that path is for me. And then other people are going to be like that person, not for me. But John, your path is exactly. And this gives people an opportunity to figure out that where in this holographic world do they find themselves, you know, and I and that this is the beauty of community.
01:02:41:02 - 01:03:00:03
Speaker 4
We have lost in a lot of ways, you know, this idea of community and the tribal parts of ourselves that that we practiced for thousands of years all over the world. You know, there's been studies that show that human beings don't do well after 150 people in a group. And this is a way to, to to return back to that.
01:03:00:05 - 01:03:12:19
Speaker 1
So will we are experiencing right now. I can already tell you the clarity of my thoughts are better. Why is this not something that the US military, the the Veterans Affairs have taken on? Why why don't they use this?
01:03:13:00 - 01:03:30:00
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, number one, probably it's awareness, right. And that's another reason why we're doing this event. I'm sure we'll have some folks from the VA coming, over from their mental health group. You know, like, this is a great opportunity for them to be exposed to it, you know, get get someone on that path of exploring this.
01:03:30:02 - 01:03:51:00
Speaker 2
You know, John summarized beautifully, you know, a lot of, the intention and thoughts and the whys behind what we're doing and what he had just stated. And even goes back to your earlier point of why is this warrior medicine, you know, that you have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable in order to engage these things to after healing.
01:03:51:02 - 01:04:12:15
Speaker 2
And, we hope that by putting all these different, impressive line up of people and their incredible, things that they're teaching and offering, that, that the VA will take notice. Or maybe it's the therapist, here local to Saint Louis, that is coming out to explore new things. And maybe they're going to find something that resonates with them, and maybe they're going to pull that into their practice.
01:04:12:15 - 01:04:24:05
Speaker 2
Or maybe they make a relationship with the practitioner, like John. And, you know, who knows what great things can come of that. We just want to be the catalyst for move, for movement and change and, possibilities.
01:04:24:05 - 01:04:36:14
Speaker 4
And speaking of the VA, I have a meeting with the VA along with Mark Quinn, who who's our executive director at the Special Operations Charity network. They are interested in this. They the VA does some incredible work.
01:04:36:14 - 01:04:37:04
Speaker 2
Yes.
01:04:37:06 - 01:04:57:22
Speaker 4
And there's also a lot of red tape because you're dealing with government, you know. And so there there are people that are interested in this and what's, what's great about everything that I do, none of it is illegal, none of it. And so the barrier to entry is a is a little less kind of some of the work that Will is doing with some other folks in getting some of these things legalized.
01:04:58:00 - 01:05:28:02
Speaker 4
You know, I think, I think once you have testing in place and once you have all of these regulations, that what was talking about earlier, I think people are going to begin to find more and more a path that works so that if we have somebody that that's had the experience that that will as head in the military, that there's a that there's a direct path instead of will having to, you know, go through all of these different paths that maybe are dead ends where we're able to give somebody a direct path to the kind of healing and resolve that they're looking for.
01:05:28:04 - 01:05:36:05
Speaker 1
So we've mentioned a couple of times that there's stuff that we haven't talked about, what all is going to be there. If somebody comes for the weekend, what can they expect?
01:05:36:07 - 01:05:58:03
Speaker 2
Well, if they would like to know firsthand, they can go to Grunt Style Foundation Morgue on the main landing page. There's a big picture for the that integration. You click on that, that'll take you to the, that, page itself, which kind of gives a summary. And you can download a catalog of instructors and classes, and it'll introduce you to all of the instructors that will be there.
01:05:58:07 - 01:06:14:00
Speaker 2
It'll give you a crash course description on what it is that they're offering and how it kind of works. A little sneak peek teaser. And that will help you decide which classes you want to attend. This is going to run in conference style. There are so many instructors and so many different things to do here. They're all happening at the same time.
01:06:14:03 - 01:06:38:18
Speaker 2
So if you want to come in and you want to set La John and Japanese incense, you can do that at the 9 a.m. slot. And then on the 10 a.m. slot, you can go learn about horses or you can go learn about, ayahuasca or whatever it is that you're curious, to explore and learn. And then if you know, it gives people the opportunity to pick and choose their own itinerary and build it to their to their custom tastes.
01:06:38:20 - 01:06:46:15
Speaker 1
And you're doing it at Sherwood Forest Camp, so it's out in a wooded area. I've been down there myself. It's a really, really beautiful location in Missouri.
01:06:46:15 - 01:07:15:14
Speaker 2
It is, and it's very accessible, $75 for the entire weekend. We have cabins. The cabins are bunkhouses. There's eight, four bunk beds, I guess, per cabin. And, sleep, sleep. Eight in a cabin. We also have day passes available, you know, $25 per day. We're going to have catered food there from Sugar Fire. And I can't remember, the Italian joint market lined up for us, but, I'll give them a shout out, online to make up for that.
01:07:15:16 - 01:07:34:18
Speaker 2
But, yeah. Back to your earlier question. Who else is going to be there? Some notables that I definitely want to, to, to put out because it's exciting stuff. In addition to John, we have Carlos Duran. He is an Iowa scarecrow, that practices with, the Colombian version of ayahuasca called, hey, so he will be there.
01:07:35:00 - 01:08:09:01
Speaker 2
He's also a businessman, has an online company called the Four Visions, which is probably the largest shamanic tool supply store, in the world. We're very, very lucky to have Carlos there. We're having, Jason Fellows, who runs a business called Tribal Detox. They're an educational and training organization that teach combo, which is these, amphibian, peptides, that, you know, really, people think of it in terms of detox certification for the body, but in fact, what it's really doing the magic combo is it returns the body to the point of homeostasis.
01:08:09:06 - 01:08:27:17
Speaker 2
So if this organ's producing this or not producing that, you know, it gets everything kind of in a gear. Jared made mention to Paige Fiji. She's my hero. I mean, of all the people here, this woman is my hero. And, to summarize that quickly for your audience page is the lady that is responsible for CBD as we know it.
01:08:27:19 - 01:08:52:12
Speaker 2
If you've ever heard of the strain of marijuana called Charlotte's Web, that is named for Paige's daughter, Charlotte. She had a very rare form of epilepsy, where she would seize for 45 minutes of every hour, and she would have about 15 minutes of rest in between them. They had to keep her in a, medically induced coma, because these were so severe, they had exhausted all of their options of what was there, to treat this?
01:08:52:12 - 01:09:14:10
Speaker 2
I mean, that's so rare. There's less than 5000 people in the world that have this. It's always terminal. Paige had exhausted all of the different, medications and opportunities and possibilities that were here in the United States when she came aware of the work that the Israeli government was doing with cannabinoids. And so, medical dispense medical marijuana dispensaries have become legal around that time in Colorado.
01:09:14:12 - 01:09:35:06
Speaker 2
And so she worked with the government. She petitioned the state and the governor and all that, to allow for her to work with these dispensaries, to try to work with the Israelis to produce what we now understand is CBD oil and this full spectrum CBD that they had made, you may have heard, referred to as Charlotte's Web, cured her daughter Charlotte.
01:09:35:12 - 01:09:54:17
Speaker 2
It not only just arrested it, it cured her. Charlotte went on to live a very productive, life. As a young lady, she was able to engage in all the activities that teenage girls would want to engage in. It was miraculous. Nothing short of that. Unfortunately, Charlotte passed away during Covid, you know, from the Covid 19 virus.
01:09:54:19 - 01:10:12:22
Speaker 2
But what a tremendous story. I mean, I don't know of I mean, that is the all time mama bear story of a mom that loves her child that much. They created CBD oil, or what we come to know is that, but she'll be there talking about, her experiences and also the legislative, battles that are currently going on.
01:10:12:22 - 01:10:32:12
Speaker 2
You know, we're experiencing this here in Missouri with this attack on, hemp products, like Delta eight. Delta nine is really kind of the intention is getting, those things out of, easily accessible areas. I think that's probably the correct course. I don't know that we need to be selling Delta eight or Delta nine products at a gas station to kids.
01:10:32:14 - 01:10:56:07
Speaker 2
But, we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That's also limiting and restricting, CBD to where these things are going to have to be sold at, dispensaries, which will destroy that industry. You know, these a lot of people rely on CBD is is a highly effective, resource that can treat a lot of things that absent that, people may have to turn back to addictive substances like opioids.
01:10:56:08 - 01:11:16:14
Speaker 2
So, yeah, that's the page figure, portion, of the conversation. I guess we've also got some other interesting folks that are coming out, that are teaching mass hypnosis, exploring the spiritual realms through hypnosis. Yes. I mean, it's just a lot of things that are outside of the box kind of thinking. We've probably got about 23 different instructors.
01:11:16:16 - 01:11:22:05
Speaker 2
And you can find them on all again at our catalog at Grunge Style Foundation. Talk.
01:11:22:07 - 01:11:27:09
Speaker 1
And John, what is the fragrance experience we're on right now and where are we headed now?
01:11:27:09 - 01:11:55:12
Speaker 4
So what we're going to do, if you're ready to wrap what is we'll go right into it. So what I'm putting on right now is I'm putting on Kiara. So cure in its in its price can be anywhere between $700 to $1500 in many, many cases. In the most rare, we've seen it go upwards of $3,500 a gram.
01:11:55:14 - 01:12:02:11
Speaker 4
And so what, you're getting an experience of.
01:12:02:13 - 01:12:12:03
Speaker 4
Is an incense would call Alice Wood. There's lots of different varieties of it. It comes from about nine different places.
01:12:12:05 - 01:12:25:13
Speaker 4
In the middle, near and far east. But I just want you to notice what you notice with this particular fragrance.
01:12:25:14 - 01:12:51:17
Speaker 4
And as you're noticing what you're noticing, I'll talk a little bit about the importance of listening. So what we're doing when so it's considered vulgar to smell incense in the eastern world. So what we're doing is we're listening. And this comes from an ancient Buddhist sutra. Where everything in the Buddha's world is fragrant. If you're not Buddhist, there's a similar story for Christ.
01:12:51:19 - 01:13:21:03
Speaker 4
There are similar stories for a lot of world religions, but normally what we would do is we would put the chakra on to this modern coral. The moon coral is known as the incense listening vessel. And so we would normally have this very close. We wouldn't have any, any tendrils of smoke at all. The, the proper, depth of the charcoal in the mon coral allows me to, to generate the most appropriate temperature, because I want to make sure you both get this.
01:13:21:03 - 01:13:44:10
Speaker 4
I brought up the temperature up a little bit, but the importance of listening this is in in modern language, this really is an exposure therapy. So we're exposing ourselves to a fragrance that the chemicals, if you break them down and you can literally go on to the National Institute of Health and look up Aloes Wood and they'll give you lots of different papers.
01:13:44:12 - 01:13:52:13
Speaker 4
But I'll, I'll ask you both, now, what do you notice for yourself about this particular fragrance?
01:13:52:15 - 01:13:58:18
Speaker 1
The word gentle keeps coming to mind. For me, it's just a very like soothing gentle.
01:13:58:20 - 01:14:12:07
Speaker 4
When you when you try to create thoughts in your mind. What's your experience of that?
01:14:12:09 - 01:14:17:06
Speaker 1
I mean, it's hard to say that I'm stuck on the word gentle, but that's just kind of where, yeah, where I am.
01:14:17:06 - 01:14:34:20
Speaker 4
What do you notice about your hearing? Did you notice when that truck went. Oh, yeah. How how clear it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what this is doing is that this is refining the senses, refining them, having you be present in the moment. What's your experience?
01:14:34:22 - 01:14:54:03
Speaker 2
I like the, the way you phrase it is being present. It's very similar to, happy in terms of the grounding and the being here. And being able to, let your mind explore without having, artificial direction.
01:14:54:05 - 01:15:19:07
Speaker 4
Now, what's interesting about this particular instance, what is that. It, it form is from a fungus that's actually looking to repair the tree. And so in the same way that frankincense is, is much like an immune response to a cut in the tree, like a scab. Everything we're doing is healing if you'll notice like how you feel. We're not I'm not trying to tell you how you feel.
01:15:19:07 - 01:15:57:06
Speaker 4
You tell me if I'm wrong, but you're centered. Yeah. You're relaxed, you're present. Nothing extraneous. And many people in life will not have this experience. Unfortunately, because they are unwilling to step out of the chaos that they're in. When I earlier when I was talking to you about, you know, when you walk into somebody's house and you know, you smell it for just a couple of moments and then it disappears, I will sometimes say in, in my, in my lectures and in my talks that, you know, you don't smell your life anymore.
01:15:57:07 - 01:16:21:13
Speaker 4
That's the beauty of a vacation. When you go on a vacation and you come back, you're like, whoa, okay. And it gives you that new perspective. And that's really what integrate is about. This this weekend is about that. And so whether I'm working one on one with somebody or whether I'm working in a large group, the experience is similar in that you're going to have a very personal experience about the things that you need.
01:16:21:15 - 01:16:39:10
Speaker 4
You know, now in the cannabis industry, if you go into a dispensary and you talk to a to a bud tender, they will oftentimes say, here, smell this, because your nose knows your nose, nose. But our sense of smell is our repressed sense. It is the closest link to memory. It is the closest link to our emotions.
01:16:39:12 - 01:16:57:22
Speaker 4
And so again, if we go back to emotional regulation and we go back to understanding, you know, we could deal with anything in the world if we're able to have an emotional and appropriate emotional response to things that are going on, and you can deal with some of the most traumatic things. And this is what this is about.
01:16:58:00 - 01:17:25:08
Speaker 4
The last story I'll tell you is this for a thousand years, the samurai ward, you know, the samurai culture is essentially a thousand years. And one of my favorite stories to tell is this is that, during the samurai period, a samurai would take off their helmet before going into battle and would put their helmet over a burning incense burner or and let their helmet fill up with this fragrance.
01:17:25:09 - 01:17:46:16
Speaker 4
So imagine yourself right now as a samurai, you're about to go into battle. Think about how you're feeling right now, right? They would then take that helmet and they would put it on and they would tie it off, and then they would go into battle. It produces to, to to take a word from, from the Indian culture, samadhi, single pointed concentration, single pointed concentration.
01:17:46:18 - 01:18:16:22
Speaker 4
So then as we're riding into battle, we have that single point of concentration. You're already in the world of budo. You're already in the, the, the way of war. You already understand that you're already dead to a certain extent. Well, what's beyond that? Well, what then would happen is that if that samurai were to lose their head in battle and then the helmet and the head falls off and then hits the battlefield, most people in the world have never smelled what a battlefield smells like, especially if you're cutting into another human being.
01:18:16:22 - 01:18:37:00
Speaker 4
Keep in mind, really, the samurai culture using blades primarily right? When you're cutting into a human being, it doesn't smell good. Well, all of a sudden you have this juxtaposition between this wonderful fragrance that you both are experiencing, not only the smell of it, but also the effect of it. Well, you would then have a have a fragrant and beautiful death.
01:18:37:02 - 01:18:59:21
Speaker 4
And so this is a meditation on death. And you've heard of the term memento mori. Be mindful of death. If we are more apt to focus on death, we are then more apt to be more alive in the present moment. This is what this is about. Integration is what this is about. And teaching people or giving people exposure to new directions up the mountain.
01:18:59:21 - 01:19:02:00
Speaker 4
We've been talking about.
01:19:02:02 - 01:19:19:00
Speaker 1
Well, this has been phenomenal. Again, John, an absolutely wonderful experience. We're going to wrap up and all that. We'll talk about where people can find them. But first, you've been doing intense journeys here in my studio. Talk a little bit about that and how people, if they wanted to have their own experience that we just had, they could do that.
01:19:19:00 - 01:19:48:12
Speaker 4
Sure. You can reach out to Sheehan wellness.com. So she and she on wellness.com and just send us a note on the contact us page. But every month I give a two hour lecture here. In your studio is fantastic. They're they're all they pretty much all sell out now every month, which is great. And then September 28th, actually, a couple weekends or the next weekend after, integration, I'm going to be doing an all day certification in, in olfactory and hypnosis.
01:19:48:13 - 01:20:13:08
Speaker 4
I'm bringing in, my co collaborator Sandra Grace from, from Integrative Life Works Inc out of Iowa. And we're going to, we're going to spend an entire day teaching people about hypnosis, about fragrance. And we're going to certify them in the olfactory induction technique. So they don't need to be hypnotists. They don't they, but they and anyone who wants to learn how to either self-hypnosis yourself or others, it will give you an ability to expand that out.
01:20:13:08 - 01:20:19:04
Speaker 4
So I am grateful to the space that you allow in this conversation. And also here. And I love what you do.
01:20:19:06 - 01:20:26:22
Speaker 1
Thanks. And well, if people wanted to learn more about your organization and then of course about the integration weekend, how should they do that?
01:20:27:00 - 01:20:56:20
Speaker 2
Again, head over to our website, Grunt Style foundation.org. We have, filmed an awful lot of, promos, videos that, also go further in and up to explain that, the best place to find those would probably be on our social media, channels if we are on, Facebook, at Grunt Style Foundation. We are on ex at, at Grudge Style f d n and Instagram is egg grunt style foundation as well.
01:20:56:20 - 01:21:08:09
Speaker 2
But, we've got some great video clips that really kind of break this down and go into more depth and, and give some good visuals on, some of the other folks. But all again, all of this is in a catalog at Grunge Style Foundation Board.
01:21:08:11 - 01:21:18:04
Speaker 1
Well, I'm so glad you were willing to come and talk. And, that John brought you that we got to meet. And I will certainly have you back on to talk more about your work any time in the direction of veterans. So thank you.
01:21:18:04 - 01:21:19:07
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Thank you, thank you.
01:21:19:07 - 01:21:38:08
Speaker 4
Vance.
01:21:38:10 - 01:21:40:01
Speaker 4
Prior.
Speaker 1
So when you talk about the weird stuff that's going on with veterans right now, what what comes to mind?
00:00:05:08 - 00:00:16:21
Speaker 2
Well, primarily we're in a suicide epidemic. And as the Global War on Terror era veteran, you know, next ten years, you know, the top end of that generation starts getting closer to retirement age. You're going to see these suicides spike.
00:00:16:23 - 00:00:34:06
Speaker 1
When you brought up SSRI as we were getting ready for this. I was I jumped at this because you have an expertise in it or at least seeing the effect of it. But I have tried to get doctors and psychologists to come on and talk about SSRI and they're like, oh, come on. But we can't talk about that.
00:00:34:06 - 00:00:46:03
Speaker 1
I don't want to talk about that. And it's been like astounding to me. Like, I've had people willing to come on this podcast and talk about all kinds of things. But when it comes to SSRI, they're not interested in, in chatting about it.
00:00:46:09 - 00:00:55:23
Speaker 2
And I firmly believe that religion is for those that are scared of hell. And I feel that spirituality practices are for people that have already spent some time.
00:00:56:01 - 00:01:03:22
Speaker 3
Hi everyone. I'm Oliver Crowe, a second grade student and aspiring YouTuber, and you're listening to the Coral podcast.
00:01:03:23 - 00:01:36:08
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. John Launius returns with a man named Will Wizner. Longtime listeners of the podcast will remember John Money as came on the podcast two years ago, and rocked my world with an innocence experience. Today, Launius returns to conduct an informal incense ceremony while introducing me to Will Wizner from the Grunt Style Foundation, a group that supports veterans to get the help they need to overcome the moral and physical traumas that come from war.
00:01:36:09 - 00:02:04:08
Speaker 1
During this conversation, we discussed the grant style Foundations integration event that's going to be held in the middle of September for alternative healing workshops and more. They're going to explore plant medicines, yoga, Japanese incense in a very serene setting called Sherwood Forest, just a little ways outside of Saint Louis. They're doing this to help people suffering in pain, that the traditional medicine system has not been able to help.
00:02:04:10 - 00:02:25:17
Speaker 1
While the Grant Style Foundation focuses on veterans. The event is open to anyone that is suffering from pain and wants additional options. When I heard about this, I knew close friends and people that I care a great deal about that have struggled to find a way to manage pain and even though they have access to great medical care.
00:02:25:22 - 00:02:50:04
Speaker 1
Something just hasn't worked for them. So I wanted to share what we'll had with you. This conversation is pretty intense. We discuss the path that a veteran can stumble down that can ultimately lead toward suicide, and why the government has been slow to attempt these alternative styles when trying to treat people with these moral and physical challenges. And all of this is going on.
00:02:50:04 - 00:03:08:19
Speaker 1
Our conversation is happening while John Launius is burning incense. And one of the things that happens throughout the experience is he says, hey, take a moment. What are you experiencing? How is this changing the quality of your thoughts? And while you may not be able to smell the incense, it should bring something a little bit extra to the conversation.
00:03:08:21 - 00:03:33:21
Speaker 1
We're going to get to that interview in just a moment. But this week we did several legacy interviews, and one sticks out in particular because a longtime friend of mine, a man named Jay Curtis, drove with his wife ten hours down from Ontario, Canada, to do a day long interview with me. And it was an amazing experience to interview a friend and a mentor.
00:03:33:22 - 00:03:58:02
Speaker 1
But there was something that Jay said after the interview that I wanted to share. And normally I don't talk about individuals that have done interviews or certainly anything they've said, but Jay actually encouraged me to talk about this at the end of Jay's interview before we turned off the cameras. I asked a final question, Jay, what changed about your life because you married Kareen?
00:03:58:04 - 00:04:31:22
Speaker 1
Jay looked at his wife and out came a long, almost poetic explanation of how he felt and what she meant to him over all these years. His lovely wife looked up at him like a young girl, taking in a deep breath. And after he was done, she said, you've never told me that before. After they embraced, Jay turned to me and said that he didn't know during his interview he'd be able to put so much of his emotions into words and that he thought I ought to tell more men that I can help you save the things that you feel, but don't find words.
00:04:31:22 - 00:04:57:01
Speaker 1
For with the women you owe so much to you. I never thought to talk about that aspect of legacy interviews, but Jay's story is one I have seen many times, a couple capturing that spark and that complex nature of their relationship. Future generations are going to be able to look at these moments and say, that's what I want in my marriage, and hopefully it will help them marry as well as jaded.
00:04:57:02 - 00:05:17:13
Speaker 1
If you would like to book a legacy interview for you and your spouse so you can have the opportunity to share things that are difficult for you to put into words. Go to Legacy interviews.com to find out more. All right, without further ado, let's head to my incense filled conversation with John Launius and will Wizner. John Launius, Will Wizner.
00:05:17:17 - 00:05:19:07
Speaker 1
Welcome to the podcast.
00:05:19:08 - 00:05:19:19
Speaker 4
Thank you very.
00:05:19:22 - 00:05:20:15
Speaker 2
Much for having.
00:05:20:17 - 00:05:42:22
Speaker 1
So, John, you are the rare guest that, has a say in how my podcast goes because we had such a wild experience when you did the first incense journey, which I was totally resistant to, I was like, don't bring your incense stuff. You brought it and we did it and it was great. So when you said, hey man, I have something important to talk about, I was like, all right, come on, come on down, let's do it.
00:05:43:02 - 00:05:48:12
Speaker 1
And this time you're set up for an incense journey is pretty amazing. So what do you have going on here?
00:05:48:12 - 00:06:16:23
Speaker 4
So what I decided to do this time was take you back 700 years to the Roman period in Japan. So the Muromachi period follows the Han period in Japan and during the Han period. Why this is important is that during the Han period 794 to 1185 essentially is when the Japanese and the Chinese were sharing a great deal of information around art and around philosophy, and around how you set up government and things like that.
00:06:17:01 - 00:06:38:03
Speaker 4
And so during the Muromachi period, what developed was something called kodo. Kodo, meaning the way of incense. Don't meaning the way call meaning incense. So what you're looking at today different from the first time. So, I think in the first podcast, we didn't even see an image of this electric warmer. What we're seeing here is that you're looking at something called the moon quarter.
00:06:38:04 - 00:06:55:11
Speaker 4
And the moon quarter is called the incense listening vessel. And so if we were doing a true full Japanese incense ceremony, what we would do is we would pass this around.
00:06:55:13 - 00:07:17:12
Speaker 4
And I'm speeding this up a little bit. But basically we would take three inhales and then turn your head to the side and blow out and then come in again. And so what this begins to do is this, this begins to speak about using incense, using fragrance as a way of appreciation. And this relates to the conversation that we're going to have with Will and the event that's coming up September 13th or 15th.
00:07:17:14 - 00:07:42:16
Speaker 4
But I thought it might be fun. As we weave the conversation today to take you through a whole number of fragrances, incense. And again, if we were doing a traditional Japanese incense ceremony, first of all, we wouldn't be sitting the way we're sitting. We would be sitting, you know, on the floor, usually in the seasonal position or other forms of sitting that are more, you know, you know, traditional, but you're getting just a very subtle fragrance of Bianco.
00:07:42:16 - 00:08:03:03
Speaker 4
Dan Bianco, Don is the Japanese word for sandalwood. Sandalwood, true sandalwood. Since mom album comes from India. But what I'll do is that as we're moving through the conversation, is that I may also jump between the two of these. And so we'll have a fragrant conversation in many ways as we begin to warm up, in what we're talking about.
00:08:03:04 - 00:08:21:21
Speaker 1
Yes. So you brought in Will. Who is somebody I just met just sitting out there in the in the room in the office, and we had a fantastic conversation. But you have an incredibly unique background. I've never met anybody like you. Why don't you tell people who who you're with and what you're kind of doing? I don't even know how to start on that.
00:08:21:21 - 00:08:25:13
Speaker 1
It's a big thing. Take the time you need to explain what it is that you do. Sure.
00:08:25:13 - 00:08:45:10
Speaker 2
My name is Bill Wizner. I'm the executive director for the Grunt Style Foundation, and we are the nonprofit arm of the largest, patriotic apparel brand in the United States called Grunt Style. And, we are engaged in four areas of primary work, the biggest of which is mental health and wellness, specifically in the arena of suicide prevention.
00:08:45:12 - 00:09:13:17
Speaker 2
And we're focused on, active duty military veterans, law enforcement, firefighters, EMS. So all the first responder, community, we also focus on issues of, food insecurities amongst active duty members. If you can believe that, that that's actually a big issue, but 1 in 3, active duty lower enlisted is food insecure. Then, homelessness and transition from active duty military into the civilian world.
00:09:13:17 - 00:09:16:19
Speaker 2
So that's kind of the area and scope of our work.
00:09:16:21 - 00:09:36:02
Speaker 1
You know, it's wild to think about. When I was growing up, there were in my small home town, you'd have the one guy that stood up at the corner, and he had the Mia flag. And, you know, he's a little bit different. Everybody kind of gave him his space and then that kind of went away. But really, after talking to you, I'm realizing it didn't go away.
00:09:36:02 - 00:09:49:03
Speaker 1
It just went way underground, where there's all of these people that have been serving in the military and the government is, I don't know, not not engaging with them in the way that they had promised. Would you agree with that?
00:09:49:03 - 00:10:06:20
Speaker 2
I would absolutely agree with that. You know, the, and it is really kind of a region or a large part of the reason for our work. The motto of the Veterans Administration is to care for he who has borne the battle and for the widow and his orphan. And, they're just not doing the real good job of that.
00:10:06:20 - 00:10:28:08
Speaker 2
And so that's where we come in, you know, we try to step into the gap of those areas that the VA either does not have the ability, or the inclination to engage in some of these things. And we really, want to focus on these issues that everybody understands is a problem. But for whatever reason, whether it's political or societal, and it's just taboo.
00:10:28:14 - 00:10:48:22
Speaker 2
Well, those things that everybody knows, our problems are there and there's clear solutions, whether it's to engage in this or just to stop engaging in that. That's the area we want to focus on, and we want to draw attention to that. We want to elevate those items and get this, train back on the right tracks because it's it's, times are weird.
00:10:49:03 - 00:11:06:13
Speaker 2
And as you mentioned, you know, when I was a kid, we still had the World War Two guys, you know, that were around. And, I think if, some of the crazy stuff that goes on today were, those guys were still around, I think we would be in a much different environment. I know how much of this they tolerate and and let pass.
00:11:06:15 - 00:11:11:13
Speaker 1
So when you talk about the weird stuff that's going on with veterans right now, what what comes to mind?
00:11:11:15 - 00:11:34:09
Speaker 2
Well, primarily we're in a suicide epidemic. And as the Global War on terror era veteran, you know, next ten years, you know that that top end of that generation starts getting closer to retirement age. You're going to see these suicides spike. And to put this into context, you know, we lost 57,000, service members during Vietnam. We lost a combined total of 8000 between Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
00:11:34:11 - 00:12:06:01
Speaker 2
But yet since 911, we've lost 150,000 veterans to suicide. This is outrageous. If this were any other topic in any other community, I think, people's hair would be on fire and there would be calls all over the place to do something. But given the nature of what is at the root of this problem, which we believe is overprescription of SSRI antidepressants, benzos, all these things that, you know, primarily have a, the biggest side effect is suicidal ideation.
00:12:06:01 - 00:12:24:02
Speaker 2
So we're taking people with suicidal ideation and we're giving them pills that make them more suicidal. I mean, like, only the government could even come up with such a thing. And this is not something unique to the veteran community. You know, this is society wide. In fact, it's global. You know, the Europeans are actually quite, quite a bit ahead of us on this issue.
00:12:24:04 - 00:12:38:23
Speaker 1
So let's start at the beginning of this, which is people coming. They're in a lot of pain and they are suicidal. Why? What's going on that people have so much pain that they even get into the world of SSRI eyes and benzodiazepines.
00:12:38:23 - 00:12:58:18
Speaker 2
Well, I think those are probably, you know, now we're kind of dealing, in the words of pain management with opioids. There's absolutely an overprescription, issue on the arena of opioids. That's that's a different topic, although it is involved in it. When we're talking on these issues of these antidepressants, the VA is under tremendous pressure to get people into the system and treated.
00:12:58:18 - 00:13:19:13
Speaker 2
If you remember, back to the Phoenix, waiting list scandal is, what, around 2012, 2013. So during there, there was a wait list that these guys were, waiting to be seen by a primary care provider through the VA down in Phoenix, Arizona. And, they were falsifying records, saying they had been seen when they hadn't, you know, meanwhile, they're being bumped.
00:13:19:13 - 00:13:45:10
Speaker 2
And, you know, people are dying waiting on this waitlist. Well, that brought tremendous pressure on the VA, to correct that. That led into the Clay hunt actor on 2014 2015 timeframe. So we're in there, where we charged the VA again with throwing a lot of money at it into the realm of psychiatry. You know, I believe that that is resulted even, more, you know, into these pills, because these are complex health issues that people are dealing with.
00:13:45:10 - 00:14:05:05
Speaker 2
You know, our signature illness from Iraq and Afghanistan was this issue of burn pits where they are they you know, it's crazy. The military industrial complex people think of in terms of bombs and bullets. But in my era, when I'm on forward operating base hammer, you know, we had Pizza Hut, we had subway, we had green beans, coffee there on the farm.
00:14:05:05 - 00:14:32:03
Speaker 2
Right. So, imagine a city of 10,000 people that have access to a little shop at where you can go buy cans of soda, bags of Doritos. Hey, you can go over and eat at, pizza Hut. You can go to the Kellogg Brown and root dining facility that they have there. And you get your little cardboard tray and all the soda you want, you know, for the low price of about $35 per meal, you know, three times a day, times 10,000, just on that, you know, that's the real face of the military industrial complex.
00:14:32:05 - 00:14:49:08
Speaker 2
Think of the trash that that generates. What do you do if you have a community of 10,000 people, they have access to all these things, but no sanitation services. What do you do with that garbage? Well, the government had sent incinerators over there that said shuddered in a box and would never utilize. They just simply couldn't handle the volume.
00:14:49:10 - 00:15:13:00
Speaker 2
So what do you do with that? You dig a pit and you throw all these things into it. Everything from medical waste to dead bodies to blown up vehicles to all the trash from Pizza Hut and green beans. You douse it in jet fuel and you light it on fire. And then we're going to billet you about 100m away, and you're just breathing that smoke night and day, 24 hours a day, for 12 or 15 months at a time during your deployment.
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:35:22
Speaker 4
The most dangerous form of incense in the world, if you really think about it. Right, you're talking about toxic smoke and fragrance going out and people ingesting this and coming up with horrible diseases that as a as a byproduct. And so I think that your experience, this, this juxtaposition between the, the event that we're going to be talking about coming up, you know, is really powerful.
00:15:35:22 - 00:15:42:20
Speaker 4
So thanks for sharing that, because I had not heard you explain at that level the way you just did.
00:15:42:22 - 00:15:59:08
Speaker 2
And it's more insidious than that. Even, because now you and all these things come together. And I know this is a long, meandering story here, but it does tie together. You know, you're exposed this you're sleeping next to us, you're breathing this stuff night and day, and then you go home and you're going into the VA saying, I'm sick.
00:15:59:08 - 00:16:22:13
Speaker 2
Well, the signature issue in the guard era from burn pits was this issue called constrictive bronchiolitis. It's a scar tissue in the alignment of the lungs. Essentially the fever blister forms and it grows around all the time and the scar tissue until you can no longer diffuse oxygen into the bloodstream. Right. So when you go to the VA, they're not equipped for this extremely complex type of, engagement.
00:16:22:15 - 00:16:39:01
Speaker 2
Right. So they're coming in saying, hey, I was a world class athlete. You know, the day I left to go to Iraq and I came home, now I go up and down the steps and I may not be able to to do that without having to take a stop and a breather or what's going on. Well, okay, lung issue, we're going to send you over for a pulmonary function test.
00:16:39:01 - 00:16:59:18
Speaker 2
They go to do the pulmonary function test. They're going to pass that test. Because that test measures oxygen air lung capacity not oxygen diffusion. So you're you don't have a problem with the amount of volume of air that your lungs can hold. That's how does it get into the bloodstream with those oxygenation. Right. So. Well, you came back normal.
00:16:59:18 - 00:17:21:19
Speaker 2
Therefore, we have to diagnose you with something. There's, there's there's a big drive to get you down there. You have a moral compass injury. You've seen or done something that is so contrary to your sense of right and wrong that it has shattered your psyche and you're now manifesting phantom illnesses. Here you go. Have some SSRIs and some anti-depressants to help you deal with that and get you on down the road.
00:17:21:19 - 00:17:46:13
Speaker 2
Well, they're not addressing the physiological symptoms. And so what ends up is this death spiral into now you think you're crazy. Your family thinks you're crazy, you're on the head meds. Meanwhile, you still have these physiological issues. You can't work. You know, the bills start to mount, financial pressures ensue. Next thing you know, you're living in mom and dad's basement with the wife and the kid, and pressures continue to mount.
00:17:46:15 - 00:18:05:05
Speaker 2
Know you have a hard time looking yourself in the mirror. You know you're a failure. All these things are, you know, that chatter in your mind. Wife takes the kid, leaves. Of course. People are eating bullets at the rate of 22, veterans a day. Of course they're doing that. And on top of it, the solution modality that they're being given makes them more suicidal.
00:18:05:05 - 00:18:21:19
Speaker 2
So it's we're we're slowly torturing veterans to the point of suicide. And that's where our program, war Cry for change comes in, where we have a, if you go to our website at, Grunge Style foundation.org, well, the first thing you're going to see on that screen is video series we did called, prescription, of suicide.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:28:10
Speaker 2
That's, part of that explains this, this issue and the, the, impact that that type of practice, brings.
00:18:28:12 - 00:18:44:03
Speaker 1
You mentioned something there. I'm not familiar with a moral compass disorder. Injury. Injury? Yeah. And this is something that they use as a way to say we understand that you're in pain, but it's the psychological it's it's PTSD yet.
00:18:44:03 - 00:18:44:20
Speaker 2
Correct.
00:18:44:22 - 00:18:53:11
Speaker 1
And so this is gone. So they're there presumably at the beginning saying, hey, we've got a diagnosis for you. It's just one that is kind of a catchall.
00:18:53:13 - 00:19:12:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it gives them, the ability to diagnose and it gives them a remedy. So, you know, they're off the book. Well, good luck, because now, you know, it's difficult to navigate the VA system as it is. There's great people in the VA and many times the VA's an excellent facility. But this is a big problem.
00:19:12:16 - 00:19:20:20
Speaker 2
That is, an elephant in the room that has not been addressed. So, you know, it's deadly. We're playing with we're playing with fire.
00:19:20:22 - 00:19:29:04
Speaker 1
So something that the listeners can't tell. But we are now taking in this fragrance. It was sandalwood. It smells like something else. Now, what's going on here, Joe?
00:19:29:04 - 00:19:49:09
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what I've done is that I started with with the sandalwood. So instead of us passing this around, what I, what I'm doing is I'm using two different types of warmers. So you'll notice that there's very little smoke, even if any at all when, when you're seeing this. So when you're using very, very good incense, it's, it's like when you invite someone over for a meal.
00:19:49:11 - 00:20:09:18
Speaker 4
I wouldn't take the steak, the vegetables and the potato, for example, and throw it directly on the flame and then serve it to you. Right? That's, that's, that's kind of gets into what I would call bad incense. What we're doing here is that we're warming these natural fragrances at the most optimal temperature. So we're getting all the benefits of all the chemicals made in nature.
00:20:09:19 - 00:20:29:21
Speaker 4
We're also getting access to terpenes, you know, now with the advent of, of the legalization of marijuana in many places in the country and in the world, we're able to talk about terpenes more freely, even though we could always talk about them. But terpenes control the color, taste and fragrance of everything in the natural world, and these terpenes allow our bodies to heal.
00:20:29:22 - 00:20:52:21
Speaker 4
They trigger things that are antimicrobial. Excuse me? Antimicrobial? Antibacterial. When Will was talking about the scarring on the lungs. Believe it or not, frankincense. You know, is is helpful in opening up the lungs because it is a bronchial dilator. So what you're getting access to right now are yes, are wonderful fragrances that have been used for thousands of years.
00:20:52:23 - 00:21:07:02
Speaker 4
But you're also really so let me ask you this. What do you both notice about the quality of your mind or the quality of your consciousness with these fragrances that you're getting access to? What do you notice that you notice?
00:21:07:04 - 00:21:09:05
Speaker 2
It's conducive to a stillness of the mind.
00:21:09:06 - 00:21:29:18
Speaker 4
Exactly. Yeah. Conducive to the stillness in that we live in a very loud and noisy world. Now, I don't know if anyone has noticed that, right, but the idea here is that there's been tons of studies done on the power of silence and how silence can actually be very healing. You may not, you know, be a professional meditator, for example, where you're learning all the postures and all that.
00:21:29:18 - 00:21:51:14
Speaker 4
But the idea of returning back to stillness allows us to get an interaction with ourselves. It allows us to have reintegration, which is perfect for what we're going to talk about in reintegrating where we are in our in our centered self sometimes, called the eye of the hurricane, for example, it's like there's a lot of people in life who live in this hurricane.
00:21:51:16 - 00:22:15:06
Speaker 4
But getting you to the center calm this is the path of Codo. At one level. There's lots and lots of levels with this, but I thought it would be interesting to juxtapose Will's, you know, story. You know, with, you know, the other side of this, which is, you know, using fragrance, using smoke, using fragrance to be able to, expand your mind, calm your mind and also heal your body.
00:22:15:08 - 00:22:36:08
Speaker 1
Well, the thing that this draws to mind is when people go to, you know, somebody for mental health and they say, I'm in chaos. I feel anxiety through the roof. My, my wife left me or I'm not able to exercise because I was injured, whatever that is. When I have experienced people that are close to me, they get onto an SSRI.
00:22:36:10 - 00:22:53:08
Speaker 1
The surface temperature looks like they're much calmer, but they're definitely away from their normal self. They're not the they don't have that spark of life. When you start thinking about XYZ and their role that they're playing with the veterans, what's going on there?
00:22:53:10 - 00:23:12:18
Speaker 2
Well, in our community, in the veteran community, you know, we refer to these, pills as zombie dope, because it's really what you're doing. You're treating a symptom. You're not treating the root cause. You're not getting down into the deep psychological. Now, there are other wonderful modalities VA does offer with talk therapy and all these things are, you know, great in their own right.
00:23:12:20 - 00:23:38:02
Speaker 2
But when we're, you know, piling masks that we're, we're having people wear to numb, you know, numb their mental chatter rather than deal with the mental chatter, you know, that's a problem, you know, how are you going to, numb yourself to the point where nothing's really affecting you? I mean, it'll work if you're wanting to not have the feels, but, you know, you're you're going to get rid of all the feels.
00:23:38:02 - 00:23:57:07
Speaker 2
You're going to get rid of the good ones, right along with the bad ones. Now, you're not really getting rid of them. You're just kind of suppressing them. And, you know, is that a still mind? I don't think so. I think there's a difference between a still mind and clarity and purpose than what? There is a still mind in a drug haze.
00:23:57:09 - 00:24:02:23
Speaker 4
Well, I was going to say when I got present you when you said that is that there's absolute truth in talking things out.
00:24:02:23 - 00:24:03:09
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:24:03:11 - 00:24:26:19
Speaker 4
And so if we're not, you know, we are emotional beings on one level. And so, you know, one of my favorite quotes is that the person who controls the questions controls the emotions. The person who controls the emotions controls the outcome. And so if we are able or when we are able to use natural healing modalities to control our emotions, then we can start to release and let things out.
00:24:26:21 - 00:24:41:15
Speaker 4
You know, sometimes there's this, analogy or metaphor, depending on how you want to use it, but have you ever taken a piece of paper and tried to fold it more than seven times? You can't do it right? And so for a lot of people, it's like their life is a lot like, okay, I have stress. I'm going to fold it again.
00:24:41:15 - 00:24:59:13
Speaker 4
I have stress, I have stress, I have stress. Well, when you get to that seventh fold and you can't fold, any more than that can represent a breakdown. And so this, these modalities and some of the things that we're going to talk about a little bit later on is this idea of unfolding of, of of opening these things up so that we can then release the things that we need to release.
00:24:59:13 - 00:25:02:01
Speaker 4
So we get back to that moment of clarity.
00:25:02:03 - 00:25:19:07
Speaker 1
When you brought up SSRI, as we were getting ready for this, I was I jumped at this because you have an expertise in it or at least seeing the effect of it, but I have tried to get doctors and psychologists to come on and talk about XYZ, and they're like, oh, come on, but we can't talk about that.
00:25:19:10 - 00:25:31:06
Speaker 1
I don't want to talk about that. And it's been like astounding to me. Like, I've had people willing to come on this podcast and talk about all kinds of things. But when it comes to XYZ, they're not interested in, in chatting about it.
00:25:31:06 - 00:25:41:20
Speaker 2
Well, of course, I mean, and I think, you know, it's self-evident, you know, you ever watch, cable news? What what is the, what's the majority of commercials when you're watching?
00:25:41:20 - 00:25:52:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, there is, there are pharma. And the way that works is maybe they don't say what this, say about your pharmaceutical, but they know if our money goes away, salaries won't get paid, and you're laying people off.
00:25:52:12 - 00:26:07:08
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. And for one and for two, think about what the protection that provides the pharmaceutical industry. You know what? Why do I need to see commercials for Zoloft on, Fox News? You know what? I'm not going to be inspired to go run down to the drugstore and buy Zoloft. I can access it. I got to have a prescription.
00:26:07:14 - 00:26:24:14
Speaker 2
So I'm going to go to my doctor and say, hey, I saw this thing on the news. I want the Zoloft. And they're going to say, well, okay, here, no, they're going to have whatever they're peddling that day or whatever they're incentivized to pay that. So why does Big Pharma spend so much money bombarding us with commercials for these pharmaceuticals?
00:26:24:15 - 00:26:40:17
Speaker 2
Well, I don't think it has anything to do with us or the or the or the audience. I think it has to do with they're now the biggest customer for the news media. They who control the narrative of what you're hearing. You think that's insurance. The news media is going to go against our cash cow and carry these stories.
00:26:40:18 - 00:26:56:04
Speaker 2
I mean, this isn't some esoteric, obscure information that we're talking about in the dangers of overprescription of these SSRI is and the potential side effects that go along with them. You know, no, this is insurance. This is their it's to insure that they're not going to engage in they can avoid those problems.
00:26:56:08 - 00:27:06:05
Speaker 1
So keep us going down the path of the SSRI. So somebody gets on that. You're calling them a zombie drug. What then goes how does that proceed for them.
00:27:06:07 - 00:27:22:23
Speaker 2
Well, I mean it can go a lot of different ways. You know, I had a, one of our friends, here very recently went on Wellbutrin for, smoking cessation. Week and a half later, the guy that was not suicidal before this and know, you know, took his life with a shotgun upstairs with his family in the house.
00:27:22:23 - 00:27:39:20
Speaker 2
I mean, these things can go that violently that fast, or they can be a prolonged, slow, torturous death if it leads to that. You know, I mean, these are there's a lot of these pills that aren't used, you know, are not meant to be used for prolonged periods of time, that we keep running into people through our work that have been on it for a staggering amount of time.
00:27:39:22 - 00:27:59:11
Speaker 2
It's it's very, very hard to come down off of these pills. It's is every bit as much of an addiction, as some of these opioids. But it's not an addiction in the sense that you're chasing a high. It's that you have to take them or else the consequences are severe. You know, they call it the brain zaps, right?
00:27:59:11 - 00:28:06:15
Speaker 2
You know, I mean, these things are staggering. You'll do anything to make that pain stop up to and including suicide. It's that it's that intense.
00:28:06:17 - 00:28:20:07
Speaker 1
So you've been around a lot of veterans and you're trying to combat the the epidemic of suicides. Talk a little bit about the chatter that goes on in a man's life that leads him down the path of suicide.
00:28:20:09 - 00:28:44:06
Speaker 2
Well, I think the example I gave earlier is about as good of an explanation as what I can get. I mean, you know, you you view yourself as this person. You know, you're on one day when you're still in the military, if you're deployed, you're over, talking to Muqtada in a village and, you know, literally you're 28 years old, staff sergeant, and you are now a representative, the United States government, you're conducting foreign policy, you know, I mean, that's that's that's the level of what you are.
00:28:44:08 - 00:29:14:02
Speaker 2
And then you come home and maybe you're doing whatever, you know, that's that your identity stripped away from you, the camaraderie stripped away from you. There's all these empty voids. How do your places, how do you fill those? How do you deal with what it is that you're bringing back, whether it's a health issue, you know, like something from the burn pits or whether it's just how do you reconcile you know, the wartime experience, you know, that will make you wonder, you know, it's all like in my instance, like I knew I had lived, in a very bad place.
00:29:14:02 - 00:29:30:22
Speaker 2
I was exposed to very bad things, and I knew that it had negatively impacted my health. But when you go and you talk to your health care provider about that and that topic of, you know, post-traumatic stress comes up like, okay, well, yeah, that's fair. I have some of that as well, you know, and then you go down that road and, you know, suddenly the lines are blurred.
00:29:30:22 - 00:29:48:00
Speaker 2
And now you're treating these physiological symptoms with psychological modalities and all these problems begin. You're not really ever getting down to addressing the root cause. You start, you know, I mean, ultimately you're crazy and you're crazy because you did bad things and then own, you know, you go in, hey, this pill isn't working. And they say, oh, okay, no problem.
00:29:48:00 - 00:30:03:14
Speaker 2
Let's just dial in, let's dial it in. Let's get you on the right, man. You do that 2 or 3 times, you go back. Now you're a pill seeker, so now you're crazy and you're crazy because you did bad things. Oh, and you're a pill seeker. Meanwhile, your your family, seeing all this, you know, they're seeing you, through the eyes that, you know, you're seeing yourself through.
00:30:03:14 - 00:30:26:04
Speaker 2
And none of these are good. They it's a hell and it's own. You know, I like to tell people, you know, for why we're reaching out to these modalities of practitioners like John. You know, they're offering a spiritual connection. And I firmly believe that religion is for those that are scared of hell. And I feel that spirituality practices are for people that have already spent some time there.
00:30:26:06 - 00:30:30:03
Speaker 2
And it's for everybody. But I think that's, in our case, that's, that's that's the hope.
00:30:30:05 - 00:30:56:22
Speaker 4
Well, and and even take that one step more like so I work with the special operations charity network. Special operations Charity network is partnered with Grand Style Foundation. And so what I'm doing is that I'm working with veterans and people, with anyone who is dealing with any form of, of of PTSD. This is not a joke, but it sometimes comes out as a joke, which is that we think that sometimes PTSD is only reserved for people who have been in the military and have done bad things.
00:30:56:22 - 00:31:27:03
Speaker 4
To Will's point, when in actuality, running a business can be just as traumatic, right? And so and so the idea here is that if you don't know about these modalities, if you don't know natural ways to return back to your center self, that's the natural part of you. Before you had all these experiences that were overwhelming, that that caused either what we call imprints in the hypnosis world, or other kinds of blockages that keep us from becoming the radiant, true person that we really are.
00:31:27:05 - 00:31:45:04
Speaker 4
This has been done for thousands of years. So if we're just looking at the Japanese tradition, you know, 700 years with the Kyoto ceremony, but we know that incense appreciation starts in Japan 1400 years ago with the advent of Buddhism in 550 A.D. we can then go back to Korea. We can go back to China, we can go back to India.
00:31:45:04 - 00:32:06:02
Speaker 4
We can go all the way back to the written history of incense, which is 6000 years old. What we talk about, how do we use fragrance, sense of the divine by whichever name that you want to call it to, to return back to that center. Like I'm finding myself like right now I'm having problems concentrating a little bit because I'm relaxing, you know, with these fragrances.
00:32:06:02 - 00:32:21:14
Speaker 4
So in the 30 years of talking about this, in the 42 years of study that I've done, I started this at nine years old, is that I've trained myself to talk through these feelings. But when I'm working with somebody and I and I find out, for example, that they were a breacher, you know, they were they were on a high speed team.
00:32:21:14 - 00:32:51:08
Speaker 4
They were a breacher. Well, I'm, I have a background in high explosives. And so I understand with Penta ready to talk tetra nitrate is I understand what these explosives are that have their own experience, their own fragrance, all of that. And so the last point I'll make, at least at this point, is, is that we don't realize that though we are seeing and feeling everything in our natural world or in the in the world itself, we forget that our sense of smell is recording everything, and our conscious and our subconscious mind in that.
00:32:51:08 - 00:33:10:13
Speaker 4
Here's the example. When you walk into somebody's house and you've never been to their house before, how long do you smell their house before it disappears for you? 30s maybe. Yeah, 30s to a minute and a half, depending right now, if they start cooking and things like that, it changes up. Right. But we we've been doing this our entire life.
00:33:10:18 - 00:33:32:08
Speaker 4
So as you walk into a new environment, you smell the environment and then it disappears because of olfactory orientation. All of the receptors in our in our nasal system, you know, in our, in our olfactory system fill up. Well. And I'm going to be a little dramatic here, okay. If, for example, you're in my house, you've been in my house for an hour, you no longer smell anything, and all of a sudden a murder takes place.
00:33:32:10 - 00:33:48:19
Speaker 4
Well, that's going to be overwhelming. It's going to be. I mean, it's going to shock you. It's going to shock you to the core of your being. Well, what's going to happen is that that part of your brain is going to remember the smell of that. So when you go someplace else in your world and you remember that smell, you're right back in it.
00:33:48:21 - 00:34:14:03
Speaker 4
And so when you are using therapies like this, I'm going to use the word therapy. You know, you aroma therapy in this case is that you're inviting to a certain extent, the ability for people to re-experience things from a distance standpoint and begin to remove the emotional connection to it. So the other piece of this at Special Operations Charity network, as well as Grand Style Foundation, we work with licensed therapist.
00:34:14:07 - 00:34:32:14
Speaker 4
This is not just us ad hoc, you know, very irresponsibly moving around is that I will work with a lot of license therapists who are like, look, I'm John, I have a client who, you know, is not they're not really responding to some of the things that we're talking about. And I know what this does because, I mean, you guys are experiencing it.
00:34:32:14 - 00:34:45:11
Speaker 4
I'm obviously the viewer isn't right now, but these fragrances that begin to relax you and open you and then you are then more comfortable to begin to share. And from the earlier point, there is absolute truth to talking things out.
00:34:45:16 - 00:35:14:12
Speaker 1
What's incredible about incense. So you and I've been doing this for like two years now. Yeah. So ever since we did the incense, I had always been like, not just the the burning stick that you would burn in your basement to cover over the weed smell. But like, I just never really thought very much of incense. But now that you've introduced it to me, you realize, hey, that smell, the one that we're taking in right now, there is no other way to get it than to have the actual incense and to burn it at the right temperature.
00:35:14:18 - 00:35:36:06
Speaker 1
So then it gives you an experience, and I completely agree with you the amount of relaxation. It's like the the relaxation that can come from smoking pot, but like without all the mental, you know, separation. Right. Whatever you want to call that. Right. So I am actually having to fight and be in control of like where are we going?
00:35:36:06 - 00:35:38:10
Speaker 1
Because I'd like to just sit and relax.
00:35:38:10 - 00:35:55:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. So go ahead. Listen to Sam. This is the interesting part about this is that one of the things that I fight is the preconceived notion of the 1960s. You just kind of alluded at it a little bit. Right. But one of the first things I'll say to people say, hey, I'm giving a talk coming up. They're like, oh, I, I, I don't like incense.
00:35:55:04 - 00:36:28:12
Speaker 4
And I'm like, really? I said, well, what kind of incense have you burned before? Well, I burn incense like money and love and prosperity. That is not what we do. What we are doing here is fragrances that have been quite literally burned by royalty and by the most affluent cultures in the world for thousands of years. And there's a reason why that every wisdom book in the whole world talks about a pleasing fragrance unto the Lord, or by whichever name you want to call it, is that these are things that were created in the divine for us as human beings.
00:36:28:17 - 00:36:47:17
Speaker 4
If you if you are, if you're a devout Christian and you're looking at the Old Testament or even aspects of the New Testament, and you look at the earliest descriptions of the Garden of Eden, you know, and you and you talk about the clothes that, that, that Adam and Eve were, were supposedly wearing that had the fragrance of the Garden of Eden.
00:36:47:17 - 00:37:10:21
Speaker 4
This is what we're talking about. And this this does get into some of the esoteric world about this. But what I'm doing today is I'm working with, you know, fortune 100, fortune 500 companies, executives that need their head game in the right place. And so this goes beyond executive coaching. This goes into that you can begin to train your mind and your body to be relaxed in all situations.
00:37:10:23 - 00:37:30:23
Speaker 4
And that relaxation is really the power. We're going to talk about this better than I can. But when you're on high speed teams in the military, they're now beginning to teach box breathing or they're beat or combat breathing is is what is referred to. Well, the breath is everything. And so if you begin to regulate your breath and you begin to regulate your mind, anything is possible.
00:37:31:01 - 00:37:41:08
Speaker 1
So with your organization and your push back on SSRI is because you're saying, hey, there's other modalities and this is not looking good. What are you guys doing to push back?
00:37:41:10 - 00:37:58:04
Speaker 2
Well, first off, I also want to take the opportunity to say that we are not suggesting, that anyone using SSRI as are bad or that there's a you don't want to shame anyone. You know, that there is a time and a place for all things. So, you know, definitely want to put that out there as a disclaimer.
00:37:58:04 - 00:38:12:18
Speaker 2
But the amount of, you know, damage in the wake of these things is where we're focusing, and that's what we want to address. And primarily informed consent making people aware that there are these dangers with these things, and they need to understand them before they're oftentimes they're not.
00:38:12:19 - 00:38:27:07
Speaker 1
They're just yeah, they're going on them. And then they don't realize, oh, to come off of this, I mean, that's even the story of somebody like Jordan Peterson, who's a clinical psychologist, gets on benzodiazepines and can't get off, has to go to Russia to try and get off of them. And if he doesn't know, how could any.
00:38:27:07 - 00:38:44:11
Speaker 2
Of us know exactly? And so we certainly do not want to make any like we feel like we're attacking anybody for, you know, if you're somebody out there watching this and you're like, you know, feeling any shame or anything, that's not my intention. But how are we pushing back against this? We're side of the drama. We're just speaking common sense truth.
00:38:44:15 - 00:39:05:05
Speaker 2
You know, there are things out there that do work. We know that these, SSRI guys, while they may have some benefit for some, they're, they're they're essentially marginally better than a placebo in terms of, doing what they hope that they are to be done. We know there are other modalities that are out there. So and that's a big spectrum.
00:39:05:05 - 00:39:34:13
Speaker 2
It's everything from Japanese incense ceremonies to equine therapy to singing bowls to meditation to tai chi and qigong and Akito and, all of those things all the way down to, you know, more controversial things that are hot topics right now with, you know, Amazonian plant medicines and amphibian medicines. You know, these medicines that are coming out of the Amazon and, ayahuasca and Yahweh, even here locally with psilocybin, you know, there are these other options that are out there.
00:39:34:13 - 00:39:54:05
Speaker 2
It's just a matter of accessibility. And in the veteran community, what I find to be particularly outrageous is that, you know, these vets, they go overseas, they they do what they are asked to do. They come home broken and in need of help. And organizations that do have mottos like to care for he who has borne the battle in his widow and his orphan.
00:39:54:07 - 00:40:24:09
Speaker 2
This is what you can access and that's it. So they are forced to go overseas to where these, like ayahuasca, for example, this modality, you know, it's illegal here is dimethyltryptamine. This is a schedule one drug. If you want to access that, you have to go to some place like Colombia or Peru where these, plant medicines are a national treasure, and they, in fact, have laws, in place to protect them to where they cannot be diluted or, you know, limited or restricted.
00:40:24:11 - 00:40:40:01
Speaker 2
That's outrageous that, the American veteran has to go overseas to seek healing for dealing with the consequences of what they have done on behalf of the country. And the country feels like it's it feels like the country is turning its back. On these guys.
00:40:40:03 - 00:40:57:19
Speaker 1
A lot of people, when they think of the, you know, the releasing of these, like letting go the rules on this is something that hippies and drug users want to do, so they can be more free. Do you think the world would be better off if you're if you're releasing the laws to to make it so people can just get them?
00:40:57:19 - 00:41:14:05
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, it's going to have to have some form of regulation. I'm not in a full blown decriminalization mindset. There's an awful lot of people that are opportunist. The want to be gurus and the cult leaders. You know, all that's going to be part of human nature. It's going to be part of this, this, this type of, these modalities as well.
00:41:14:08 - 00:41:31:09
Speaker 2
So it's a threat. And, you know, there has to be a common sense approach to it that said, nobody in their right mind is engaging in powerful psychedelics like ayahuasca, for recreational purposes. I mean, these this is a harrowing experience, right? Often times it is very difficult. They call it warrior medicine. I mean, it is not for everybody.
00:41:31:11 - 00:41:33:23
Speaker 1
Talk about that. What do you mean, warrior medicine?
00:41:34:01 - 00:41:50:19
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, it's an intense experience. You are completely, you know, you're encountering your subconscious, your higher self, however you want to think of it, you are going to battle with these things that you're carrying with you and you and you and you are being presented with it, and you do not have the option to compartmentalize it.
00:41:50:19 - 00:42:15:12
Speaker 2
You do not have the opportunity to forget about it, to shove it down in those dark places, to engage in destructive behaviors is coping mechanisms. It's there. It's in your face, and you're going to have to deal with it. And that experience is oftentimes about eight hours in length. You have to come to terms, and that is where you will find the healing is, you know, having that internal conversation with yourself that oftentimes you're too scared to have.
00:42:15:14 - 00:42:21:11
Speaker 1
Well, that goes with what John was saying about the conversation is an important part of the healing process.
00:42:21:13 - 00:42:44:05
Speaker 4
And one of the things that when you talk about conversation, one of the things that I want to do before we end today is I'm going to introduce the both of you to the master incense. It is the incense that is considered the highest level of of aloes wood. It's called Kiara. And what it does is it produces the mental clarity of a 30 minute meditation in a single inhalation, and it doesn't last very long.
00:42:44:05 - 00:43:04:04
Speaker 4
So when Will was talking about that eight hour experience? I have never done psychedelics, and I probably never will do psychedelics because I have had a lifetime of of having what I might you what you might say is like a soft or gentle, you know, reforming of the mind keeping me from going too far in one direction.
00:43:04:04 - 00:43:24:15
Speaker 4
But this is what I love about the integration weekend, and I and I can't wait to talk about it because, I mean, you've kind of started to loot at it, but what what the Grand Style Foundation has put together is an incredible weekend where September 13th through 15th in in Troy, Missouri, people are all people. Not just veterans but but active military, you know, veterans, but all people are.
00:43:24:15 - 00:43:32:18
Speaker 1
Going to people experiencing pain, people experiencing like, I need to find some new way to go because the things that have been presented to me now. Yeah. Aren't working.
00:43:32:18 - 00:43:37:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what? So so what was the impetus for for creating the integration weekend?
00:43:37:19 - 00:44:04:03
Speaker 2
Well, the impetus was, to make it accessible. I mean, that is our objective is to make people know that holistic healing modalities exist on a number one. And number two, they're effective. Number three, demystify them. You know, I mean, people watch Joe Rogan, they've heard him talk about DMT and this celebrity's ayahuasca experience. Okay, great.
00:44:04:03 - 00:44:23:20
Speaker 2
For the average person, what does that mean? You know, who has how many thousands of dollars to go down to South America or Central America to engage that practice? What are you know, they're trying to engage in in the underground here inside the United States. How safe is that? What are you looking for? How do you spot these gurus and charlatans and predators that are out there?
00:44:24:01 - 00:44:40:22
Speaker 2
You know, so we want to provide an educational opportunity to empower them with that knowledge. If you're going to go south, this is what you're looking for. This is these are the conditions you're trying to meet. If you're going to take that up on yourself and you are going to engage in, underground, activities here within the United States, here's what you need to be aware of.
00:44:41:00 - 00:45:07:20
Speaker 2
And it's all not psychedelics. Again, we're we're promoting, equine therapy. We're promoting Japanese incense. We're promoting all these different modalities. We're trying to bring to the table, things that we know have benefit. And we want to give the opportunity for people to, number one, learn about them and engage in it. And number two, they have the exponential, component for those that are appropriate, we're not going to be giving ayahuasca to anyone at this event.
00:45:08:01 - 00:45:17:16
Speaker 2
But when you leave, you're going to know more than the average bear on what it is and what it's really about. Same with, a variety of other, methodologies.
00:45:17:18 - 00:45:20:02
Speaker 1
Have you put on an event like this before?
00:45:20:04 - 00:45:36:04
Speaker 2
Not this particular one. No. I mean, this is really the first time out. This is a pilot program. I have no idea if it's going to be, just a handful of people sitting around a campsite, you know, just, you know, breaking the ice and setting the stage for a follow on attempt or if we're going to have tremendous support.
00:45:36:04 - 00:45:44:09
Speaker 2
I hope it's the latter, because this is important stuff, and we want this to be successful. We want people to engage. We want people to understand, we want to bring the community into this.
00:45:44:13 - 00:45:58:19
Speaker 1
I mean, I think it's really incredible that you guys are trying something so new and different, and you're putting together a weekend and just saying, like, we're we're going to jump in and do this. What led you to the point where you were like, all right, we got to do something really different here because this is pretty different.
00:45:58:19 - 00:46:19:02
Speaker 2
Oh, it's entirely different. I mean, we're we're literally bringing in shamans from the Amazon for this event to teach. We are bringing in Lakota medicine man from, from the Oglala, nation out in Pine Ridge, gentleman named, Jalen Garnet. He's going to be offering, what we would probably call the, sweat Lodge, but it's actually has it's a ceremony.
00:46:19:02 - 00:46:42:06
Speaker 2
It's one of the big six seven ceremonies called the nippy. You know, every day break in every dusk. The that ceremony will be offered. It's four rounds. It's very intense. It's also very healing. You know, we will have, practitioners of, meditation and yoga and, you know, all the things that we talked about before will be there teaching.
00:46:42:08 - 00:46:49:14
Speaker 1
Incredible. And, tell me more about your foundation we just jumped right into. But we never really got into the grant style foundation.
00:46:49:16 - 00:47:11:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, again, we're, the nonprofit arm of, the apparel company Grunt Style. Grunt style stood that nonprofit up in April of 2021. Before that grant style, been giving away half $1 million or so year to charity, just in things that were in line with, you know, their, way of looking at the world and what needs to be done.
00:47:11:10 - 00:47:31:09
Speaker 2
It didn't hit all the the check box that they were trying to achieve. So they decided, let's take this a different area. Let's go after this and stand up our own programs. Now, that's kind of where I came in. I before coming to Grand Style, I was a consultant working in the nonprofit, world, trying to engage the issue of military related toxic exposure illnesses.
00:47:31:09 - 00:47:48:18
Speaker 2
That's why I happen to know a lot about, this issue of burn pits. I was on the board of directors for an organization called Burn Pits 360. We worked very closely with John Stewart and, John Field to get that, legislation passed into law. It took about ten, 13 years of my life, working on that.
00:47:48:20 - 00:48:05:05
Speaker 2
And, we just were getting nowhere because Congress was telling us the same thing. The big six Vsos are veteran service organizations were telling us, saying we need to have a political cover, to engage this, we have to build systemic momentum within the veteran community where they understand this is an issue. Well, how do you do that?
00:48:05:05 - 00:48:22:10
Speaker 2
And why does that fall to a little tiny nonprofit like Burn Pits or 60 to go out and accomplish? So one of our strategies was, was, well, we've got to educate the veterans. Where where do you how do you do that? You know, so we went to the veteran entrepreneurial, sector. So we we targeted grunt style. They have a massive audience, a huge.
00:48:22:10 - 00:48:39:00
Speaker 2
And there are a number of impressions, or the billions. So we went to them and, just so happened that Tim Johnson, one of the co-owners of Grunt Style, knew all too much about this issue of burn pits. He had lost, many friends and in people. That was from his, unit, to that issue.
00:48:39:00 - 00:48:59:19
Speaker 2
And so he was eager to get involved. And, you know, once we had grunt style, and their media machine behind that, we accomplished more in probably the next three months. And we had done in the previous 13 years combined. We started generating that systemic momentum. Rosie Torres was really leading the way. That was burn pits. 360 getting this out there.
00:48:59:21 - 00:49:18:21
Speaker 2
Then the fall of Afghanistan happened. We pulled out. Despicably. So probably the most embarrassing instance in, American history, the in my book. And that hit veterans hard. And I got a phone call from Tim, you know, saying, hey, I am, struggling with this, you know, as are a lot of us.
00:49:18:23 - 00:49:37:11
Speaker 2
And, I know that you, do this work with these shamans that are, with this ayahuasca stuff, and you're in that field, you know, is this something that might be helpful to me? And so, you know, I, had that resource in connection. We were able to go south and and sit with that medicine, and, and he firsthand saw the healing power.
00:49:37:13 - 00:49:53:01
Speaker 2
Of that modality. And so at that point, he said, hey, look, we've stood up this foundation I'm wanting to get engaged into, you know, actual, programs of our own that we're we have the chance to to move the needle in the direction that we need it to go. I'd love for you to come on and lead that foundation.
00:49:53:01 - 00:50:11:03
Speaker 2
And so, I agreed, the only condition being that, I'm able to operate it here in Saint Louis. So I wasn't looking to leave the area. So now here we are, on South Brentwood Boulevard. Same building that we're in right now is where our office is located. And the rest is just been a whirlwind adventure.
00:50:11:05 - 00:50:25:10
Speaker 1
You mentioned in the in the discussion of the psychedelics, this is like a big, like, a harrowing experience. Have you watched people be healed by this? You've you've been around many, many talk a little bit about that.
00:50:25:12 - 00:50:46:15
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. I mean, you know, this is you're really shifting people's perspective. And, you know, people tend to have two types of mental chatter. And I'm not a psychologist or any kind of a doctor or anything like that. But this is just, you know, I'm a country farmboy from down in those dark mountains and I got some horse sense and I know what I'm looking at.
00:50:46:17 - 00:51:06:15
Speaker 2
And, what I have, come to learn is that these two demons sit on your shoulders, that are this mental chatter generally come in two varieties and one is, judgment, whether that's judgment of yourself, usually in the most negative sense or judgment of others. And then the victimization is on that other shoulder. You know, it's not my fault everyone's out to get me.
00:51:06:15 - 00:51:25:12
Speaker 2
You know, we have a hard time finding and taking ownership of our own role in our problems. And, really what these modalities are doing is they're going to take you into that place where you have the opportunity to explore those things and engage those things and have an honest conversation, perhaps sometimes for the very first time. Other times it's just gentle and healing.
00:51:25:12 - 00:51:49:20
Speaker 2
And I can't explain that spiritual component of this stuff, but it is a spiritual experience. It's oftentimes extremely profound. I've never met an atheist coming out of, any of these ceremonies, and I've seen hundreds and hundreds of veterans go through this process. Now, people from triple amputations, you know, having to deal with, you know, incredibly dark things, down to military sexual trauma.
00:51:49:20 - 00:52:10:06
Speaker 2
I've seen a lot of female veterans that have gone through. They're able to put to bed, you know, some really hard things. One thing that I think, is amazing, in that space is that it's accessible for everyone. But it doesn't mean that it's right for everyone. I do believe that there are two types of people.
00:52:10:06 - 00:52:33:02
Speaker 2
There are those who want to truly heal, and there are those who want to want to heal. And most everybody starts in that second category, and we're all working towards the first. These types of modalities are increase incredibly powerful to position someone to move from that second category to that first category. This isn't something you can just drop in and it's a magic pill and everything's better.
00:52:33:02 - 00:52:57:09
Speaker 2
It doesn't work that way. This is deep, deep spiritual work. People often refer to it as like having 20 years of intense psychotherapy in one evening. And that's right. I have experienced it myself. I have seen it many times with these people. And the other interesting thing here is that what I've also seen is what these veterans, most people are dealing with traumas that have nothing to do with the military when they get there.
00:52:57:11 - 00:53:16:22
Speaker 2
Turns out they're actually dealing with mommy issues or daddy issues or something from the early, early childhood. I've seen that over and over again. There's reasons probably behind that. I believe that, you know, we're we're a volunteer, force, you know, the United States and a lot of people that are going into the military or seeking stability, and, I don't know, the military is really all that stable.
00:53:16:22 - 00:53:24:23
Speaker 2
So we're kind of compounding dramas, like top dramas, perhaps. But when they are doing that work, they're often dealing with those things first and then the military experience.
00:53:24:23 - 00:53:35:01
Speaker 4
What you starting to hit on. The reason why that I felt a resonance with you and what you're doing is because when we're talking about the difference between psychedelics and psychotropic, which is what this is.
00:53:35:01 - 00:53:35:11
Speaker 2
Yep.
00:53:35:13 - 00:54:02:07
Speaker 4
You know, a lot of people don't realize that the subconscious communicates to us through symbols and imagery. And so where we have language with our conscious mind, our subconscious is communicating, you know, again, through symbols and imagery. And this develops between the ages of eight and 13. So if you go back and you look at what you were doing and what you were thinking about between the ages of eight and 13, it will have a direct correlation to what you're doing now as an adult.
00:54:02:13 - 00:54:25:13
Speaker 4
When I think about it, between the ages of eight and 13, I had my first business, which is kind of a joke business with my mother, which was selling Cheerios as donut seeds. Right? But but in that I learned a lot about business. At the same time, I was also learning incense and I was learning martial arts. And so now here I am at 51, you know, working at very high levels of business.
00:54:25:13 - 00:54:49:08
Speaker 4
But I'm also teaching incense, which seems a little bit juxtapose. I mean, the first time I was on the show, you're like, John, you don't look the part, you know? And so going back to what Will was talking about is that when we talk about what's developing between the ages of 1813 with our subconscious and psychedelics, it's a very powerful experience where your subconscious is communicating with you with these symbols and imagery, which can be very overwhelming.
00:54:49:10 - 00:55:16:03
Speaker 4
Conversely, that when we're looking at psychotropic, psychotropic change, the quality of our consciousness, alcohol is a psychotropic. And so it changes the quality of your consciousness. So what if you understand, you know, that's just that's just take the heavy hitters, things like sandalwood, frankincense, camphor, benzoin, cassia, cinnamon, things like that. When you are warming these and you're in the experience of them, it creates a particular kind of consciousness.
00:55:16:08 - 00:55:24:21
Speaker 4
And so when I learned about what, what Will was doing in the integration weekend, and you haven't even talked about some of the other instructors, the woman behind CBD.
00:55:24:23 - 00:55:25:13
Speaker 2
Yes. Paige.
00:55:25:13 - 00:55:50:05
Speaker 4
Phoebe. Yeah. And I mean, this this incredible weekend of instructors are going to people they're going to have an opportunity to get exposed to things that they do. Yes, they could get exposed to through the internet and things like that. But an entire weekend where they get to interact with the people, you know, in real life. And that that for me is really interesting because you cannot experience true incense unless you're in the presence of it.
00:55:50:07 - 00:56:05:03
Speaker 4
You can't. It's like I, you know, if we were away and in a space with no fragrance at all, and I said, remember the smell of a pine tree? We've done this exercise before. You cannot remember the smell of a pine tree. All that happens is you get a mental image. Now there are people like, wait, I think I can almost smell it.
00:56:05:03 - 00:56:22:23
Speaker 4
Yeah, you can almost smell it, but you can't smell. You've got to be in the presence of it. Which is why ancient traditions have talked about how the more incense you burn, the more enlightened you become, because it allows you to get present to whatever that feeling is, what that emotion is. But it's a softer way to go about this.
00:56:23:04 - 00:56:33:12
Speaker 4
And both path, I think, are fine. It's just that, you know, my particular purview is around the fragrance and using this as a soft way to begin to unfold, as we talked about earlier.
00:56:33:17 - 00:56:48:23
Speaker 1
So talk a little bit more about that unfolding. So if somebody is dealing with, you know, incredible trauma that you've described or seeing things that, you know, you only see if you've gone to war, how does having a nice scent help them.
00:56:49:03 - 00:56:58:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. So what. So I'll, I'll ask you both, what is your favorite fragrance in the entire world?
00:56:58:19 - 00:56:59:08
Speaker 4
What's yours?
00:56:59:08 - 00:57:00:02
Speaker 2
Paulo Santo.
00:57:00:02 - 00:57:32:18
Speaker 4
Palo santo. Okay. So so so Paulo Santo is from South America. It has been integrated in into South American Catholicism. Where, in, in in North American Catholicism, for example, we know about frankincense and myrrh. We, we know frankincense being being burned in the, you know, in the church with the, with the swinging center. Well, Palo Santo is this wonderful fragrance that contains a lot of terpenes like Apennine, and eugenol and other and other chemicals that relax and, and calm the mind.
00:57:32:20 - 00:58:00:23
Speaker 4
You know, nowadays if you go out on Instagram and you meet the spiritual gurus, you know, they'll be on camera with the Paolo Santo and it it kind of looks a little bit woowoo. Right. But when in actuality that that woowoo is a is an entrance into understanding these ancient modalities that that allow you to start to, collapse and communicate for people that have true PTSD or true emotional trauma, one of the first things that they do is they clam up.
00:58:01:01 - 00:58:22:23
Speaker 4
They don't want to talk about it. And because they think, if I hold on to it, then I'm going to be able to to to deal with it when, when in actuality, that's not the case at all. And so going back to the story, talking about working with therapists is that sometimes no form of therapy may be an opening, but if we take that fragrance palo santo or for you, what.
00:58:23:01 - 00:58:24:03
Speaker 1
I was going to say, Kathy.
00:58:24:03 - 00:58:50:10
Speaker 4
Maybe. Kathy. Okay. So so Casey Katie is is the is the incense of of Egypt. It's 3500 years old. That's the recipe for it. It was rediscovered, in the 19th century. At the temple of Ed Fu, where, Heinrich Bruce went in and and he's looking at the, at the at the hieroglyphs. He, he was he was the first person to translate demotic, which is Egyptian cursive.
00:58:50:11 - 00:59:03:03
Speaker 4
Anyway, he moves away the mud, three inches of mud and sees this recipe that's 3500 years old. And so there's lots of iterations of coffee. But when you're in the presence of that, what happens to you?
00:59:03:05 - 00:59:14:12
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm just absolutely relaxed. We did it the other day with incense. You brought me and like, the whole office is just. Yeah, way, way calmer. Just just ready to just take whatever's coming your way. Yeah.
00:59:14:12 - 00:59:35:01
Speaker 4
It relaxed. Whatever comes your way. Right. So then, so there's so there's a couple Japanese words that I will use. What? I'm beginning to talk about this concept. So Mizuno Kokoro mind like water core. No. Kokoro mind like incense. So let's talk a little bit about that. So if you if if you're if you're again out on social media, you might see old clips of Bruce Lee talking about water.
00:59:35:05 - 01:00:07:03
Speaker 4
Water can become many things right? Well, water at its base form is content with the low places that people disdain. Yet it nourishes all things. But water can become that soon it can become that wave. And so as we start to look, it fills any form that it takes. And so when we're looking at our ability to mold and be what we need to be in any environment, the more the more that you are mentally healthy to be able to move and shift, then this gives you the ability to become whatever you need to become.
01:00:07:03 - 01:00:29:13
Speaker 4
Not that you're being fake, but that you are that. That you're literally being who you need to be in any moment in life. Because oftentimes we feel like we are impersonating or that, you know, the, the, the, the, the imposter syndrome goes into play. So using different modalities, meditation, incense, I could I could keep going starts to allow yourself to be comfortable in the uncomfortable.
01:00:29:13 - 01:00:49:12
Speaker 4
And that's my favorite definition of mastery is being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Because life is always uncomfortable because work is we're living and and and fear is always present. And sometimes in my public talks, people said, oh, I've always had a guy's like, well, I'm not afraid of anything. I'm like, really? Okay, well, if you're really being honest with yourself, fear is always present.
01:00:49:12 - 01:01:04:06
Speaker 4
So let me give you an example. If you were, if you've never been to New York City and you're going to drive into the city and you're going to find a parking spot, there might be a little bit of fear that comes up like, oh my gosh, where am I going to park? How am I going to, you know, what's going to be there?
01:01:04:06 - 01:01:23:14
Speaker 4
So I'm not saying that you're always afraid, but there's always that fear about what goes on because we are fear based beings. So this gives us the opportunity to start to, collapse that. So circling back completely to the original part of your question is that when you're in the presence of a fragrance that you enjoy, it naturally starts to relax you.
01:01:23:14 - 01:01:42:16
Speaker 4
So when I'm working with people, either in the personal incense journey, which is I'm going to give you guys the experience of the personal incense journey at the end with the Kiara. Is that what this will produce? And I don't mean to tell you what you're going to experience, but what it does is that it produces the mental clarity of a 30 minute meditation in a single inhalation.
01:01:42:18 - 01:02:02:22
Speaker 4
And what it does is that as a neural sedative, it starts to slow the thoughts. And so if you if your head is full of thought all the time, you don't get to experience the rest of the world around you. There's an ancient quote that talks about how no mind gives you an experience of the divine. The Japanese talk about no mind.
01:02:02:23 - 01:02:24:08
Speaker 4
And what does that mean? Does that mean that I'm unconscious? No, it just means that my life, I am in complete control of my thoughts. My thoughts don't run me. And and again, back to back to the integration weekend. There are many parts of the mountain and what I'm loving. I'm so excited about this weekend because people are going to go, okay, that's a path for me, John.
01:02:24:08 - 01:02:41:02
Speaker 4
Your path man, not so much, Bob, but that path is for me. And then other people are going to be like that person, not for me. But John, your path is exactly. And this gives people an opportunity to figure out that where in this holographic world do they find themselves, you know, and I and that this is the beauty of community.
01:02:41:02 - 01:03:00:03
Speaker 4
We have lost in a lot of ways, you know, this idea of community and the tribal parts of ourselves that that we practiced for thousands of years all over the world. You know, there's been studies that show that human beings don't do well after 150 people in a group. And this is a way to, to to return back to that.
01:03:00:05 - 01:03:12:19
Speaker 1
So will we are experiencing right now. I can already tell you the clarity of my thoughts are better. Why is this not something that the US military, the the Veterans Affairs have taken on? Why why don't they use this?
01:03:13:00 - 01:03:30:00
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, number one, probably it's awareness, right. And that's another reason why we're doing this event. I'm sure we'll have some folks from the VA coming, over from their mental health group. You know, like, this is a great opportunity for them to be exposed to it, you know, get get someone on that path of exploring this.
01:03:30:02 - 01:03:51:00
Speaker 2
You know, John summarized beautifully, you know, a lot of, the intention and thoughts and the whys behind what we're doing and what he had just stated. And even goes back to your earlier point of why is this warrior medicine, you know, that you have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable in order to engage these things to after healing.
01:03:51:02 - 01:04:12:15
Speaker 2
And, we hope that by putting all these different, impressive line up of people and their incredible, things that they're teaching and offering, that, that the VA will take notice. Or maybe it's the therapist, here local to Saint Louis, that is coming out to explore new things. And maybe they're going to find something that resonates with them, and maybe they're going to pull that into their practice.
01:04:12:15 - 01:04:24:05
Speaker 2
Or maybe they make a relationship with the practitioner, like John. And, you know, who knows what great things can come of that. We just want to be the catalyst for move, for movement and change and, possibilities.
01:04:24:05 - 01:04:36:14
Speaker 4
And speaking of the VA, I have a meeting with the VA along with Mark Quinn, who who's our executive director at the Special Operations Charity network. They are interested in this. They the VA does some incredible work.
01:04:36:14 - 01:04:37:04
Speaker 2
Yes.
01:04:37:06 - 01:04:57:22
Speaker 4
And there's also a lot of red tape because you're dealing with government, you know. And so there there are people that are interested in this and what's, what's great about everything that I do, none of it is illegal, none of it. And so the barrier to entry is a is a little less kind of some of the work that Will is doing with some other folks in getting some of these things legalized.
01:04:58:00 - 01:05:28:02
Speaker 4
You know, I think, I think once you have testing in place and once you have all of these regulations, that what was talking about earlier, I think people are going to begin to find more and more a path that works so that if we have somebody that that's had the experience that that will as head in the military, that there's a that there's a direct path instead of will having to, you know, go through all of these different paths that maybe are dead ends where we're able to give somebody a direct path to the kind of healing and resolve that they're looking for.
01:05:28:04 - 01:05:36:05
Speaker 1
So we've mentioned a couple of times that there's stuff that we haven't talked about, what all is going to be there. If somebody comes for the weekend, what can they expect?
01:05:36:07 - 01:05:58:03
Speaker 2
Well, if they would like to know firsthand, they can go to Grunt Style Foundation Morgue on the main landing page. There's a big picture for the that integration. You click on that, that'll take you to the, that, page itself, which kind of gives a summary. And you can download a catalog of instructors and classes, and it'll introduce you to all of the instructors that will be there.
01:05:58:07 - 01:06:14:00
Speaker 2
It'll give you a crash course description on what it is that they're offering and how it kind of works. A little sneak peek teaser. And that will help you decide which classes you want to attend. This is going to run in conference style. There are so many instructors and so many different things to do here. They're all happening at the same time.
01:06:14:03 - 01:06:38:18
Speaker 2
So if you want to come in and you want to set La John and Japanese incense, you can do that at the 9 a.m. slot. And then on the 10 a.m. slot, you can go learn about horses or you can go learn about, ayahuasca or whatever it is that you're curious, to explore and learn. And then if you know, it gives people the opportunity to pick and choose their own itinerary and build it to their to their custom tastes.
01:06:38:20 - 01:06:46:15
Speaker 1
And you're doing it at Sherwood Forest Camp, so it's out in a wooded area. I've been down there myself. It's a really, really beautiful location in Missouri.
01:06:46:15 - 01:07:15:14
Speaker 2
It is, and it's very accessible, $75 for the entire weekend. We have cabins. The cabins are bunkhouses. There's eight, four bunk beds, I guess, per cabin. And, sleep, sleep. Eight in a cabin. We also have day passes available, you know, $25 per day. We're going to have catered food there from Sugar Fire. And I can't remember, the Italian joint market lined up for us, but, I'll give them a shout out, online to make up for that.
01:07:15:16 - 01:07:34:18
Speaker 2
But, yeah. Back to your earlier question. Who else is going to be there? Some notables that I definitely want to, to, to put out because it's exciting stuff. In addition to John, we have Carlos Duran. He is an Iowa scarecrow, that practices with, the Colombian version of ayahuasca called, hey, so he will be there.
01:07:35:00 - 01:08:09:01
Speaker 2
He's also a businessman, has an online company called the Four Visions, which is probably the largest shamanic tool supply store, in the world. We're very, very lucky to have Carlos there. We're having, Jason Fellows, who runs a business called Tribal Detox. They're an educational and training organization that teach combo, which is these, amphibian, peptides, that, you know, really, people think of it in terms of detox certification for the body, but in fact, what it's really doing the magic combo is it returns the body to the point of homeostasis.
01:08:09:06 - 01:08:27:17
Speaker 2
So if this organ's producing this or not producing that, you know, it gets everything kind of in a gear. Jared made mention to Paige Fiji. She's my hero. I mean, of all the people here, this woman is my hero. And, to summarize that quickly for your audience page is the lady that is responsible for CBD as we know it.
01:08:27:19 - 01:08:52:12
Speaker 2
If you've ever heard of the strain of marijuana called Charlotte's Web, that is named for Paige's daughter, Charlotte. She had a very rare form of epilepsy, where she would seize for 45 minutes of every hour, and she would have about 15 minutes of rest in between them. They had to keep her in a, medically induced coma, because these were so severe, they had exhausted all of their options of what was there, to treat this?
01:08:52:12 - 01:09:14:10
Speaker 2
I mean, that's so rare. There's less than 5000 people in the world that have this. It's always terminal. Paige had exhausted all of the different, medications and opportunities and possibilities that were here in the United States when she came aware of the work that the Israeli government was doing with cannabinoids. And so, medical dispense medical marijuana dispensaries have become legal around that time in Colorado.
01:09:14:12 - 01:09:35:06
Speaker 2
And so she worked with the government. She petitioned the state and the governor and all that, to allow for her to work with these dispensaries, to try to work with the Israelis to produce what we now understand is CBD oil and this full spectrum CBD that they had made, you may have heard, referred to as Charlotte's Web, cured her daughter Charlotte.
01:09:35:12 - 01:09:54:17
Speaker 2
It not only just arrested it, it cured her. Charlotte went on to live a very productive, life. As a young lady, she was able to engage in all the activities that teenage girls would want to engage in. It was miraculous. Nothing short of that. Unfortunately, Charlotte passed away during Covid, you know, from the Covid 19 virus.
01:09:54:19 - 01:10:12:22
Speaker 2
But what a tremendous story. I mean, I don't know of I mean, that is the all time mama bear story of a mom that loves her child that much. They created CBD oil, or what we come to know is that, but she'll be there talking about, her experiences and also the legislative, battles that are currently going on.
01:10:12:22 - 01:10:32:12
Speaker 2
You know, we're experiencing this here in Missouri with this attack on, hemp products, like Delta eight. Delta nine is really kind of the intention is getting, those things out of, easily accessible areas. I think that's probably the correct course. I don't know that we need to be selling Delta eight or Delta nine products at a gas station to kids.
01:10:32:14 - 01:10:56:07
Speaker 2
But, we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That's also limiting and restricting, CBD to where these things are going to have to be sold at, dispensaries, which will destroy that industry. You know, these a lot of people rely on CBD is is a highly effective, resource that can treat a lot of things that absent that, people may have to turn back to addictive substances like opioids.
01:10:56:08 - 01:11:16:14
Speaker 2
So, yeah, that's the page figure, portion, of the conversation. I guess we've also got some other interesting folks that are coming out, that are teaching mass hypnosis, exploring the spiritual realms through hypnosis. Yes. I mean, it's just a lot of things that are outside of the box kind of thinking. We've probably got about 23 different instructors.
01:11:16:16 - 01:11:22:05
Speaker 2
And you can find them on all again at our catalog at Grunge Style Foundation. Talk.
01:11:22:07 - 01:11:27:09
Speaker 1
And John, what is the fragrance experience we're on right now and where are we headed now?
01:11:27:09 - 01:11:55:12
Speaker 4
So what we're going to do, if you're ready to wrap what is we'll go right into it. So what I'm putting on right now is I'm putting on Kiara. So cure in its in its price can be anywhere between $700 to $1500 in many, many cases. In the most rare, we've seen it go upwards of $3,500 a gram.
01:11:55:14 - 01:12:02:11
Speaker 4
And so what, you're getting an experience of.
01:12:02:13 - 01:12:12:03
Speaker 4
Is an incense would call Alice Wood. There's lots of different varieties of it. It comes from about nine different places.
01:12:12:05 - 01:12:25:13
Speaker 4
In the middle, near and far east. But I just want you to notice what you notice with this particular fragrance.
01:12:25:14 - 01:12:51:17
Speaker 4
And as you're noticing what you're noticing, I'll talk a little bit about the importance of listening. So what we're doing when so it's considered vulgar to smell incense in the eastern world. So what we're doing is we're listening. And this comes from an ancient Buddhist sutra. Where everything in the Buddha's world is fragrant. If you're not Buddhist, there's a similar story for Christ.
01:12:51:19 - 01:13:21:03
Speaker 4
There are similar stories for a lot of world religions, but normally what we would do is we would put the chakra on to this modern coral. The moon coral is known as the incense listening vessel. And so we would normally have this very close. We wouldn't have any, any tendrils of smoke at all. The, the proper, depth of the charcoal in the mon coral allows me to, to generate the most appropriate temperature, because I want to make sure you both get this.
01:13:21:03 - 01:13:44:10
Speaker 4
I brought up the temperature up a little bit, but the importance of listening this is in in modern language, this really is an exposure therapy. So we're exposing ourselves to a fragrance that the chemicals, if you break them down and you can literally go on to the National Institute of Health and look up Aloes Wood and they'll give you lots of different papers.
01:13:44:12 - 01:13:52:13
Speaker 4
But I'll, I'll ask you both, now, what do you notice for yourself about this particular fragrance?
01:13:52:15 - 01:13:58:18
Speaker 1
The word gentle keeps coming to mind. For me, it's just a very like soothing gentle.
01:13:58:20 - 01:14:12:07
Speaker 4
When you when you try to create thoughts in your mind. What's your experience of that?
01:14:12:09 - 01:14:17:06
Speaker 1
I mean, it's hard to say that I'm stuck on the word gentle, but that's just kind of where, yeah, where I am.
01:14:17:06 - 01:14:34:20
Speaker 4
What do you notice about your hearing? Did you notice when that truck went. Oh, yeah. How how clear it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what this is doing is that this is refining the senses, refining them, having you be present in the moment. What's your experience?
01:14:34:22 - 01:14:54:03
Speaker 2
I like the, the way you phrase it is being present. It's very similar to, happy in terms of the grounding and the being here. And being able to, let your mind explore without having, artificial direction.
01:14:54:05 - 01:15:19:07
Speaker 4
Now, what's interesting about this particular instance, what is that. It, it form is from a fungus that's actually looking to repair the tree. And so in the same way that frankincense is, is much like an immune response to a cut in the tree, like a scab. Everything we're doing is healing if you'll notice like how you feel. We're not I'm not trying to tell you how you feel.
01:15:19:07 - 01:15:57:06
Speaker 4
You tell me if I'm wrong, but you're centered. Yeah. You're relaxed, you're present. Nothing extraneous. And many people in life will not have this experience. Unfortunately, because they are unwilling to step out of the chaos that they're in. When I earlier when I was talking to you about, you know, when you walk into somebody's house and you know, you smell it for just a couple of moments and then it disappears, I will sometimes say in, in my, in my lectures and in my talks that, you know, you don't smell your life anymore.
01:15:57:07 - 01:16:21:13
Speaker 4
That's the beauty of a vacation. When you go on a vacation and you come back, you're like, whoa, okay. And it gives you that new perspective. And that's really what integrate is about. This this weekend is about that. And so whether I'm working one on one with somebody or whether I'm working in a large group, the experience is similar in that you're going to have a very personal experience about the things that you need.
01:16:21:15 - 01:16:39:10
Speaker 4
You know, now in the cannabis industry, if you go into a dispensary and you talk to a to a bud tender, they will oftentimes say, here, smell this, because your nose knows your nose, nose. But our sense of smell is our repressed sense. It is the closest link to memory. It is the closest link to our emotions.
01:16:39:12 - 01:16:57:22
Speaker 4
And so again, if we go back to emotional regulation and we go back to understanding, you know, we could deal with anything in the world if we're able to have an emotional and appropriate emotional response to things that are going on, and you can deal with some of the most traumatic things. And this is what this is about.
01:16:58:00 - 01:17:25:08
Speaker 4
The last story I'll tell you is this for a thousand years, the samurai ward, you know, the samurai culture is essentially a thousand years. And one of my favorite stories to tell is this is that, during the samurai period, a samurai would take off their helmet before going into battle and would put their helmet over a burning incense burner or and let their helmet fill up with this fragrance.
01:17:25:09 - 01:17:46:16
Speaker 4
So imagine yourself right now as a samurai, you're about to go into battle. Think about how you're feeling right now, right? They would then take that helmet and they would put it on and they would tie it off, and then they would go into battle. It produces to, to to take a word from, from the Indian culture, samadhi, single pointed concentration, single pointed concentration.
01:17:46:18 - 01:18:16:22
Speaker 4
So then as we're riding into battle, we have that single point of concentration. You're already in the world of budo. You're already in the, the, the way of war. You already understand that you're already dead to a certain extent. Well, what's beyond that? Well, what then would happen is that if that samurai were to lose their head in battle and then the helmet and the head falls off and then hits the battlefield, most people in the world have never smelled what a battlefield smells like, especially if you're cutting into another human being.
01:18:16:22 - 01:18:37:00
Speaker 4
Keep in mind, really, the samurai culture using blades primarily right? When you're cutting into a human being, it doesn't smell good. Well, all of a sudden you have this juxtaposition between this wonderful fragrance that you both are experiencing, not only the smell of it, but also the effect of it. Well, you would then have a have a fragrant and beautiful death.
01:18:37:02 - 01:18:59:21
Speaker 4
And so this is a meditation on death. And you've heard of the term memento mori. Be mindful of death. If we are more apt to focus on death, we are then more apt to be more alive in the present moment. This is what this is about. Integration is what this is about. And teaching people or giving people exposure to new directions up the mountain.
01:18:59:21 - 01:19:02:00
Speaker 4
We've been talking about.
01:19:02:02 - 01:19:19:00
Speaker 1
Well, this has been phenomenal. Again, John, an absolutely wonderful experience. We're going to wrap up and all that. We'll talk about where people can find them. But first, you've been doing intense journeys here in my studio. Talk a little bit about that and how people, if they wanted to have their own experience that we just had, they could do that.
01:19:19:00 - 01:19:48:12
Speaker 4
Sure. You can reach out to Sheehan wellness.com. So she and she on wellness.com and just send us a note on the contact us page. But every month I give a two hour lecture here. In your studio is fantastic. They're they're all they pretty much all sell out now every month, which is great. And then September 28th, actually, a couple weekends or the next weekend after, integration, I'm going to be doing an all day certification in, in olfactory and hypnosis.
01:19:48:13 - 01:20:13:08
Speaker 4
I'm bringing in, my co collaborator Sandra Grace from, from Integrative Life Works Inc out of Iowa. And we're going to, we're going to spend an entire day teaching people about hypnosis, about fragrance. And we're going to certify them in the olfactory induction technique. So they don't need to be hypnotists. They don't they, but they and anyone who wants to learn how to either self-hypnosis yourself or others, it will give you an ability to expand that out.
01:20:13:08 - 01:20:19:04
Speaker 4
So I am grateful to the space that you allow in this conversation. And also here. And I love what you do.
01:20:19:06 - 01:20:26:22
Speaker 1
Thanks. And well, if people wanted to learn more about your organization and then of course about the integration weekend, how should they do that?
01:20:27:00 - 01:20:56:20
Speaker 2
Again, head over to our website, Grunt Style foundation.org. We have, filmed an awful lot of, promos, videos that, also go further in and up to explain that, the best place to find those would probably be on our social media, channels if we are on, Facebook, at Grunt Style Foundation. We are on ex at, at Grudge Style f d n and Instagram is egg grunt style foundation as well.
01:20:56:20 - 01:21:08:09
Speaker 2
But, we've got some great video clips that really kind of break this down and go into more depth and, and give some good visuals on, some of the other folks. But all again, all of this is in a catalog at Grunge Style Foundation Board.
01:21:08:11 - 01:21:18:04
Speaker 1
Well, I'm so glad you were willing to come and talk. And, that John brought you that we got to meet. And I will certainly have you back on to talk more about your work any time in the direction of veterans. So thank you.
01:21:18:04 - 01:21:19:07
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Thank you, thank you.
01:21:19:07 - 01:21:38:08
Speaker 4
Vance.
01:21:38:10 - 01:21:40:01
Speaker 4
Prior.
- Intro
- Kodo: The Way Of Incense
- SSRIs are "Zombie dope"
- What leads someone to su*cide?
- What is being done to push back against SSRIs?
- Grunt Style non-profit
- How do scents help people?
- Paige Figi's story
- Where to find Will and JohnConnect with us! =============================IG: ➡︎ /…
