In this episode of the Ag Tribes Report, host Vance Crowe is joined by Jason Hanson, a former USDA NRCS employee who has transitioned to sustainable farming in North Carolina. The discussion delves into the challenges of modern farming, including the oversupply in the corn market and the impact of electric vehicles on ethanol demand. Jason provides insights into the struggles of small farmers and the complexities of agricultural policies.
The episode also covers significant agricultural news, including Central Iowa's nitrate contamination crisis and the Trump administration's decision to rescind the roadless rule, opening millions of acres to logging. Jason and Vance discuss the implications of these issues, exploring the balance between environmental conservation and economic development. The conversation extends to the role of nonprofits in agriculture and the potential for innovative solutions outside of government intervention. The episode concludes with a discussion on the Bitcoin land price report and Jason's views on the future of agriculture and land management.
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Unknown:
The Ag Tribes Report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are so the future knows who they really were. Here are Legacy Interviews guests, Mark and Stephanie Mendenhall, on the unexpected ease of their experience.
[00:00:18] Unknown:
What'd you guys think? How was it? Much easier than I expected. Yep.
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Much easier. You made us feel very comfortable. Was this something that weighed on you for a while? They had her ideas on it. Well, he looked at it and said, well, we'll just wing it. Because, you know, you give this list of figured out this out and figure this out. Oh, well, we didn't get that done. What what we remember, we remember. And what we forgot, we'll tell the kids later. Tomorrow, I'll say, god, why didn't I tell this story? Or why didn't I tell them about this? You do a good job of asking questions.
[00:00:50] Unknown:
Welcome to the Agtribe's report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host, Vance Crowe. The report begins in three, two, one. Let's begin.
[00:01:06] Unknown:
Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crowe. Each week, I bring on a cohost to represent the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week, we have Jason Hanson, an NDSU alumnus who relocated from North Dakota to North Carolina with his wife to start a farming venture focused on sustainable agriculture. A vocal critic of big ag and government overreach, Hanson is working to establish a small farm on a former plantation, with the goal of raising beef and promoting regenerative farming practices. Jason, welcome to the Ag Tribes Report. Thank you, Vance. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the invite. Sue, tell me a little bit about this, farm you just purchased.
[00:01:49] Unknown:
Yes, sir. So, yeah, about a year ago, we relocated, originally from North Dakota, but we actually a few stops along the way, we were out in Utah for a couple years, all with, my career with the NRCS, USDA NRCS, which spanned about fourteen years. But North Dakota, we went out to Utah for a couple years back in North Dakota, then we went out to the Pacific Islands. We were out on Oahu in Hawaii, for the last four years before moving to the Raleigh area. We're actually east. We're in Tarboro, mailing address, North Of Tarboro here in Eastern North Carolina. And, yeah, we bought a 10 acre property out here. Took a national headquarters job with the NRCS based out of Raleigh, but, actually, I took the federal buyout here, earlier this spring and, just needed to get out of that and, into something now next. I guess that's the farm now. It's probably gonna be a few different other things, but the goal here on this 10 acre property was to get it up and running again. It's an old 1848 plantation house we bought with the 10 acres.
About four or five of it has been in production before, dating back to, you know, when this place was built in 1848. All the things that come with those, you know, over those years too. We've got photo documents here, you know, of activities out here in in the whole history as you can about imagine in North Carolina and those times. It's pretty interesting. It's on the historic, register, but we have never or nobody else, previous owners, has never taken any money for it. So we don't have the limitations there. So we've got some flexibilities, but we did purchase, with the idea of, hopefully, beef here at some point. We might have to buy land for that, but we're doing a little vegetable production in year one, but also cut flowers, which my wife, kind of her primary goal is to get out of nursing in the medical field full time at least, long term. So that was kind of the goal here is to get into cut flowers, so vegetable production, and just largely being able to grow what we can, you know, kinda subsistence farming, if you will, to a point, then sell whatever else we can as well.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
So that's what we can do. Pretty it's a pretty, wild ride to go from NRCS to actually farming, so I'm, I'm glad to bring on your perspective, this week. Appreciate that. So next week, we're gonna be talking about corn the corn market facing a perfect storm. We have a lot of supply, and, we're watching the potential for ethanol demand to decline as EVs are gaining traction. We're also gonna talk about Central Iowa's unprecedented nitrate contamination crisis forcing the first ever lawn watering ban, and we're gonna talk about Trump's, decision to rescind the roadless rule, opening 58,000,000 acres of National Forest 2 logging. We're also gonna do the Bitcoin land price report. We're gonna hear Jason's take on the Peter Thiel paradox, and we're gonna hear about his worthy adversary, try and do that in just thirty minutes. So let's get started.
Headline number one, corn market faces perfect storm oversupply meets EV threat. The US corn market is under pressure from near record production and growing inventories with a potential challenge from the rise of electric vehicles and robo taxis that could reduce demand, even further for, corn based ethanol. The USDA estimates that twenty twenty four corn harvests at 15,000,000,000 bushels, one of the largest ever on record, and ending stocks are predicted at almost 2,000,000,000 bushels. This is an increase of over 178,000,000 bushels previous year.
Corn futures were trading at $4.11 per bushel, down over 10% from the past month. So if you've been storing grain hoping for prices to rebound, things just got a lot worse. This is all set against the backdrop of Elon Musk launching robo taxis in Austin, Texas this week, which are both electric and will potentially lower the need for people to own vehicles. Rides during their training phase are marked at just $4.20 as a flat rate, and Musk has claimed that future costs could drop as low to 30 to 40¢ per mile, for the cyber cab. So if you consider this and how much that might take out of demand for ethanol production, which currently accounts for 35 to 40% of US corn use, this could have a pretty big impact on what is already a lot of supply. So, Jason, it seems like supply has outstripped demand and that the markets are gonna put a lot of farmers in a perilous position. Is this a passing phase, or is this, the new reality for for corn farmers?
[00:06:25] Unknown:
You know, Vance, I can't I got a brother that farms up in North Dakota yet, and, you know, mom and dad farmed, forever. We grew up working on small family farms, but I I don't think it's a new trend by any means, but I also don't think it's the new reality either. I think it's the reality that's been here. You know, I again, I remember my parents' auction sales about five years old. That's what I remember of my parents' farming. They got out like a lot of people did in the late eighties, early nineties. You know, they just it was what they had to do to save the land. That's what they had to do. And, like I said, I got a brother that farms up there, corn, soybeans, sugar beets, those things, you know. So it it hits home, hearing these things. I got another brother that has a excavation business, a lot of drain tile installation, things like that, and he's done very well for himself. And I started I worked for him for eight years too up in North Dakota.
And then combined with working with, you know, small family farms and big farmers as well all across the country with the USDA NRCS, I mean, it absolutely hits home, but it's not a game that we can even consider playing and, you know, financially. It just isn't. And, you know, unless you're born into it, it doesn't seem like there's any way to really get into it unless you get really lucky. And, of course, those stories happen. It isn't something that can't be done.
[00:07:36] Unknown:
But for us realistically to get in the corner of soybean production, but specifically corn production at scale, it's just not something that we can do. So that's why we're going a different route, the kind of power. I mean, farmers this this week have been talking all about how crazy the markets are. If you follow any grain traders, they're talking about it, like, trying to catch a falling knife. And I heard one guy on x. He was, a banker. He was talking about how this is really impacting people's operating lines of credit. If you were taken out I think you gave the example of $300,000 of for an operating line and you're waiting for corn prices to go back up so you could sell, now you're trying to go to the bank to extend the operating line because you don't wanna sell at these depressed prices, but the bank's gonna say, hey, you you gotta sell.
[00:08:21] Unknown:
Then that further adds more sub supply onto the market, thus further dropping prices. Seems like pretty rough out there for corn farmers right now. For sure. Well, I can tell you Vance, I never thought I'd be in invited to do something like this years ago because I think when I first got on Twitter, you know, I was coming from, you know, the NRCS USDA side of things and, you know, kind of with that lens, if you will. And I remember making comments on Twitter, tweeting, I guess, you could say, you know, hey. Like, if you guys know the corn prices are terrible, then why you keep planting it? You know, it's just very simple question. And I tell you, the hate that you get for saying something so simple, it's kind of astounding sometimes. Of course, that comes with anything on the Internet, but,
[00:09:02] Unknown:
I think it's a fair question. Well, I mean, I think it's because they're insured to do it. Right? I I I spoke with a buddy this week that got a 6 figure check, for for things not going right, and he didn't he didn't you know, things go wrong and you still get paid. And as long as you plant corn and soy, the government's gonna keep giving you that money. I think it's clearly incentivized by the government.
[00:09:25] Unknown:
Absolutely. Especially when you're doing it by the acre too and and even by you know, if you've got more than one person, you know, in your entity, you get more dollar. You know, there's so many things that the USDA does that promotes the big time operators versus small farms. That's part of the reason why I left.
[00:09:41] Unknown:
Alright. Moving on to headline number two, Central Iowa nitrate crisis forces first ever lawn watering ban. According to Iowa Public Radio, Des Moines Water Works took an unprecedented step of issuing a lawn watering ban in an effort to keep up with demand for nitrate free drinking water after nitrate levels spiked in the Des Moines and Raccoon Rivers. Central Iowa is experiencing a severe nitrate contamination crisis leading to the first ever watering ban affecting over 600,000 residents. Farming pollution to the unsafe river conditions. Nitrates levels in untreated water consistently exceed the EPA's 10 per liter limit forcing the Central Iowa works to run nitrate removal facilities at full capacity using reverse osmosis and ion exchange.
This is incredibly expensive, and they still have struggled to get it down to ten milligrams per liter. In fact, it was at eleven milligrams per liter. Risk because for infants under the age of six months, they can develop blue baby syndrome, because not you can't get enough oxygen in the blood. So this is going on. Iowa ag secretary Mike Nag took to LinkedIn to attribute the nitrate spikes to weather saying there's, hey. There's been so much rain in Iowa. It's, you know, it's not just agriculture. It's also natural in soils. There's urban runoff and other sources like golf courses. And so he's trying to say, hey. Don't blame, agriculture too much on this. What do you think, Jason? You have been in this field, lot of accusations happening.
Is this agriculture's fault? Is this just the way that it is? Or are golf courses trying to keep their lawns too green?
[00:11:37] Unknown:
Well, I think it's I think like anything in life, I think it's a little bit of everything. And, there's a lot of nuance here, and I think on the agricultural side of things, you know, not to get too long winded on this, but, you you know, the MBS has been around. So conservation service, NRCS has been, you know, active for over ninety years here, and we still haven't figured out the baseline soil health, you know, to raise that to raise that bar to achieve baseline soil health across the country, which basically was the mission of the soil conservation service and NRCS effectively.
It's not the first time it's rained heavy in Iowa. It's not the last time. It's not the first time it's been dry. You know, those things happen. It goes in cycles. I think we all know that. You know, the climate change kind of stuff, it gets politicized and whatnot. But, I mean, what we're truly trying to achieve is resilience, in keeping those nutrients in the field, and where they're put and so they can be used appropriately and not over applying in all these things. And that goes for everybody. That's not just saying that's golf courses, that's your residential, you know, all across the spectrum.
You know, but I think to blame it on the weather, I don't know. Like, he must be up for reelection or something, but, I just I don't that doesn't work with me because, again, it's not the first time it's rained. It's not the last time it's gonna rain.
[00:12:49] Unknown:
I think you have to expect these things, and I think we have to raise the bar on what we're willing to accept or not. I just Well, Elliot Henderson just commented. It's a 100,000 pounds of naturally occurring nitrate in Iowa's farmland. The farmers are not the problem here. When I was doing research for this story, I did find out, like, when you have heavy rains and, man, Iowa has been just getting hit over and over again. It does leach out nitrates. Also, they've got all this, land is tiled, which means that water is moving much, much faster off the fields. I don't know. It's hard to say that it's not agriculture's fault, but, it, you know, it's it's definitely they're definitely making a contribution.
[00:13:28] Unknown:
Yeah. I think I think you'd be a little crazy to say it's it's not contributing. Right? I mean, that's that's just not realistic. To what degree you know, again, those things can be debated and decided, but, again, I think what are we doing knowing that the rains are gonna come and keep coming? What are we gonna do about it? And I think that's the question where I go to in my is, okay, knowing that these things are gonna happen, whether it's now or ten years from now or thirty years from now, because, again, the cycles are have always been there. What are we doing to prepare for it? How can you keep it in place? And I think that's where we need to do you have outside of not put on, you know, fertilizer. Are there other options?
Well, I think, you know, again, the the even the term soil health has been probably abused not to the point of, you know, climate change, but probably abused and, you know, I think, regurgitated enough and forget my comment here, but bastardized enough, you know, that some people just laugh at it when they hear it. But I think, basically, the principles, if you can do the no till or the strip till, you know, I think there's some things there. I think incorporating the cover crops, you know, I know people get sick of hearing that, but they are an effective tool just like drain tile's an effective tool. You know, I think the nutrient management, I think the grazing options that aren't used on the bulk of American cropland, I think there's a lost resource there, and I think, you know, instead of applying all these synthetics, is there other ways that we can get the fertilizers on the ground in a more natural way? I think there's a ton of things we can do.
The crop rotations are a big part of it. Look at what Jason Mauck is doing. I was supposed to be in Indiana last week for his field day, the alley cropping. We were working with that in Hawaii too and trying to get figured out. You know, we've lost the ability on how to do a lot of those things, but people way before us were doing it. And now with our new technology, I think the combination there is gonna get us there. But we just have to we gotta do it at scale, and I think it is scalable. It just you know, I think we we let perfection get in the way of progress on a lot of these fronts.
[00:15:29] Unknown:
Well, we're gonna follow this and see just how long the nitrate stays in Iowa's drinking water. We'll revisit this, but moving on to our final headline of the day, headline three, Trump rescinds Clinton era roadless rule, opens up 58,000,000 acres to logging. The Trump administration has rescinded the 2,001 roadless area conservation rule of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins, announcing a decision during the Western Governors Association meeting in New Mexico earlier this week. The move ends decades of protection for nearly 59,000,000 acres of national forest land, road construction, timber harvesting, and wildfire prevention efforts. The roadless rule was implemented by the Clinton administration prohibited road building and commercial logging across the, 58,000,000 acres of pristine forests. The policy is aimed, was aimed at preserving wildlife habit, safeguarding drinking water, and protecting recreational areas. I did do a little look into where this is. Some of this stuff is not going to be logged. The Tongass National Forest is, is unlikely to be logged, but Sierra Nevada, the Wasatch Range in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Washington all have had serious problems with, with, wildfires.
Allegedly reduced economic development in the forestry industry by over 25%, and the rescission aligns with President Trump's executive order directing the Department of Agriculture and Interior to reduce wildfire risk, boosting timber mill sales. So and it looks like there might be up to $500,000,000 that will go to the, US Forest Service for stumpage fees if they start, cutting those out. So Jason, what do you think? Is is this really a genuine forest management issue that's gonna lower wildfires, or is this, a corporate giveaway?
[00:17:28] Unknown:
You know, again, Vance, I think it's probably, in some respects, maybe a little bit of both, but I tell you, in the two years, we spent two years from 2015 to 2017 working for NRCS out in Southwestern Utah. Lived in Cedar City. Wife worked down Saint George, worked up in Panguitch right by Bryce Canyon National Park. And I tell you, coming from, you know, North Dakota where it's I forget the percentages, but, basically, all private land in Eastern North Dakota to going out to Southwestern Utah where I think it was 97%, 96% federal lands out there. Either Forest or BLM had control.
It it it really was kinda shocking to see the difference, pros and cons. But I tell you the locals wanted more local control, and I understand that to a point. I think state control and, you know, the stuff with Mike Lee, the senator from Utah here lately, also kind of in a line here and trying to sell some of the federal lands. I mean, I think all these kind of things overlap. These discussions and these policies overlap in some respects. Sure. Is it a corporate giveaway? Yeah. Potentially. I think there's a real high potential for that because everything in our government seems to go that way. But, also, do some of these lands need to be managed to reduce the fire risk and other things? I think absolutely. You've seen I forget what the name of the beetle, out in Southwestern Utah. I mean, the fire has basically killed that thing off, and when it runs rampant, it kills all the trees, and then you get these massive fires following.
Again, that's been ten years since we've lived out there now, but it's, you know, I think anybody out in that area would know what I'm talking about, and they could speak to it obviously far better than I can. But, you know, again, do the forest management plans need to happen? Is the actual action need to take place? Absolutely. I think so. You know, again, it it gets chalked up to to climate change, but I think it's just poor land management. And I you know, that kinda covers all these topics.
[00:19:17] Unknown:
Yeah. The twenty twenty one Dixie fire that caught over, almost a million acres in the twenty seventeen Rice Ridge Fire was a 160,000 acres. And these are sparked by lightning, and they get way worse because there haven't been any roads to be built in there. So you don't have the the access, and then you also have a way overabundance of trees. On the other hand, 60% of fires are started by humans, that are in camping areas that aren't going to be logged. So, you know, maybe there's other things they should be doing if you're really going after wildfires.
[00:19:49] Unknown:
Right. Right. And knowing that, I mean, is there more management could could be done closer to the roads, you know, versus, I mean, there's a whole bunch of things there that a forester could tell you better than I could. But I think, again, it's it seems to be a little bit of everything.
[00:20:02] Unknown:
Alright. Well, that is gonna do it for the news this week. If you have, stories that you think I should be covering, you can always send them to me on x at Vance Crowe or email them to me, [email protected]. All three stories came from listeners this week, so thank you very much for that. Moving on now to the Bitcoin land price report. Last week, Bitcoin was at a 105,000, and today, we're sitting at a $107,500, which is up 2.3%.
[00:20:33] Unknown:
So, Jason, what county in North Carolina do you live in, and how much does, land going for? A good acre of farmland there. Yeah. So we bought our property North of Tarboro, which is situated, right in Edgecomb County, North Carolina. And, average value out here is about 6,000 an acre. And, you know, it's it really is quite the variety out here. There's a lot of development coin kind of coming from both directions, east and west from the Raleigh from the West, Greenville from the Southeast. You know, it's just it there's a lot of a lot of activity out in this area. If you're paying 6,000 for an acre, what are you doing with it? Are you are you grazing? Are you running crops? What are you doing? There's a lot of cropland out here. A lot of trees that were here, there's been a lot of trees removed even since we moved out here last year. You know, and, again, I don't know the history of it. I don't know, you know, what the cycles are there, but a lot of you know, there's watermelon production. There's, cotton production's big. Of course, tobacco production is big.
There's soybeans out here. There's field of sunflowers out here as well. And and then, of course, our little 10 acres. But, you know, it's, there's a lot of interesting things going on around here. Different ag than I'm used to, but it's an interesting part of the country.
[00:21:45] Unknown:
Alright. Well, at 6,000 an acre, that means, you can get an acre for point $0.05 5 Bitcoin or 1 Bitcoin would get you seven point 17.9 acres. How does that sit with you?
[00:21:59] Unknown:
I wish I had some Bitcoin, man. We have a little, but not enough.
[00:22:03] Unknown:
Well, I love hearing that. You know, this week, actually, just last night, I encountered a, a guy that I follow. His name is Jack Mallers. He's, he sells Bitcoin on a on a on an app called Strike. He's runs a different company, but he actually put something out that I thought is, is something worth listening to. So I thought I would let him play for just two minutes. This is a video by Jack Mahler's on how is the economy actually doing. He's asking me, hey, Jack.
[00:22:32] Unknown:
If Trump's official policy is America first and telling China get their money out of the country, and everyone goes, well, isn't the stock market then gonna have to go down? And I say, yes, absolutely. They say, but Jack, it keeps going up. Going up in what? Brooklyn Daily Eagle, 10/24/1929, the Great Depression. The DGIA hits its lowest point on 07/08/1932, 89% below its September 29 peak, defining the most significant bear market in Wall Street's history. The market would not return to its 1929 high until 1954. The Great Depression. So the stock market down 89%.
And people say, but, Jack, the stock market has not been down that much in recent memory. In 1929, the dollar was backed by gold, so the stock market was down 89 in gold terms. That's why it was a real depression. You see? Let me show you. From 2000 to 02/2011, the stock market was down 89% in gold terms. So if you measured the stock market in gold, you already lived through a great depression, hotshot. You just didn't see it. We had a great depression in plain sight. How? Manipulation of the money. What I'm saying is, yes, the stock market is going to get obliterated. Obliterated.
In what? Not in dollars. Stop looking at things in dollars. You're gonna miss these things in broad daylight. The whole world has already lived through stock market crashes, just not in dollar terms. People say, oh, man. My stock portfolio is up again this year. Weird. Why can't I afford rent? That's weird. Why am I getting less groceries? That's weird. Filling up my tank is really expensive. But my stock market went up. Depends what you're measuring in. You understand? The S and P 500 against Bitcoin over the last five years, Down 81%.
What about food? Food's down 85% against Bitcoin in the last five years. We lived through a depression and a performance that was greater than the Great Depression, but no one batted an eye because they used the wrong measuring stick.
[00:25:03] Unknown:
So I know he's talking about, the stock market, but to me, I look at that and I think, man, at at corn prices at $4.11, I wonder what it is priced in gold. And I went and looked it up. I was trying to put it up here. I I'm not able to get it up, but it's not looking good. Like, yeah. Yeah. We're not only are we at depressed prices, but the value of the dollar and what it can buy you even if you were able to sell it at a higher price is hurting. How does that sit with you, Jason?
[00:25:30] Unknown:
Well, I think dating back to even the, you know, the initial wave of COVID back in 2020 when they were, you know, talking about sending out checks to everybody. I remember making comments at that point, like, man, that $4,200 or whatever we got in our family of three, we're really gonna pay for that. And I think the more money we print I mean, we see it every year, and it's just it's insane. It needs to stop, in my opinion, you know, but it's gonna hurt. But I think the more we go on here, it's gonna hurt worse. And I think, again, just the the general policies that we've been, you know, kinda stuck in the ruts that we've been, you know, just kinda coasting along here and keep spending and spending and spending. It's gonna catch up with us sometime. And I think the argument could be made that it certainly already has.
[00:26:10] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that farmers right now are feeling that and and even if you're, upset about $4.11 corn, if you compare that to what $4.11 bought you just, you know, a year ago, it that's really that's a really big hurting you're putting on. Absolutely. Alright. So now moving on to the Peter Thiel paradox. This is where I am gonna ask Jason, what is one thing that you believe that almost nobody in your tribe agrees with
[00:26:37] Unknown:
you on? You know, I kinda struggled with this one a little bit, Vance, but I think one thing I come back to is, one of the reasons I I felt comfortable leaving, the USDA, the NRCS, was I think the ability to do the mission better, more efficiently, than we have been as an agency. And I think the way one of the ways it could be done is running through a nonprofit. And I know the NGOs, nonprofits especially have been catching a lot of flack, especially since the new administration came in in January. I think, like, USAID, you know, those kind of things, those topics, whether you believe what was going on or not. I think there's, you know, again, some of that stuff may be up for debate what was truly going on. But I think the nonprofit world has taken a hit in some respects in that, but I I also think that nonprofits could largely if you get the right people running them and if you have the right missions, associated with them, I think they can largely replace much of what the federal governments do, or federal government does, and I think state governments as well. And I think there's a lot of, you know, NRCS specifically, you know, the old mission. I don't remember the new long worded one. It doesn't matter.
But the one that I came into the age with was helping people help the land. I mean, there's a million ways to do that, but there's some very easy ways, like we were talking about with the rain situation and the nitrates in Iowa and elsewhere. There's some soil health things that could be done with nonprofit offer long term land rental contracts. I'll put it in the easement form. And I think if you had the right mindset, I'm working on that, trying to create my own. And if there's anybody out there listening that already has a framework for it and they wanna go work together, let me know. But, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, but I just think there's a lot of opportunity through the nonprofit realm to get a lot of things done to actually help people. And then it could be said for health insurance. I mean, anything.
[00:28:29] Unknown:
What's interesting to me about your Peter Thiel paradox is I I completely agree with you that the government can't do a good job of it, but I would go towards private enterprise, towards, you know,
[00:28:39] Unknown:
business doing this. How come you say nonprofits instead of private business? Well, again, I think there's some nonprofits out there that are are worthless too. I mean, I think we all can admit that. There's some that, you know, raise a lot of money and what do they get done. I mean, I think there's some hard questions that need to be asked. But I think even like a good politician, which I don't know if there are any, but I think if you are transparent with what you're doing and if you're really being efficient with the money that you are raising, I I just don't see how it's you know, it basically is private.
It's actionable like a private entity could be. It can be as efficient as a private entity, but you're just getting your financing from, you know, basically the collective. You know? If you have a good enough mission, I think people would be willing to donate to you. And and that money wouldn't have to get through you know, run through the federal avenues. And, actually, the tax savings and things that can be achieved by donating to a nonprofit that's certified, you know, I think bypassing the federal government, not only on the policy side, but also the tax side, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
[00:29:39] Unknown:
Yeah. And then at that point, if you're doing it anytime time you're doing it outside of the government, then it's not done through force. Then it's, hey, whatever's going on, you know, we can collect and what they can get on board, you know, other people on board for, then it's then it's,
[00:29:53] Unknown:
it's demand driven as opposed to supply driven. Correct. That's the one thing I always appreciated. Well, two things I appreciated about my career at the NRCS was, number one, the people. 90% of the people are absolutely excellent, and they want to be there, and they're trying to do the right things. And I think that's probably with every federal agency and or, you know, really in any part of life. I think most people are trying to do a good service. But, also, you know, I think, I lost my train of thought there. Sorry.
[00:30:19] Unknown:
That's alright. Yeah. I mean, there's the real Peter Thiel paradox about the, you know, 90% of the people are they actually contributing, when they're working in the government. That is I would you make that case?
[00:30:33] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's pretty high. I mean, some of the folks that I've been able to work with over the career, you know, again, there's 10% that you never wanna work with again. Right? I think that's I think that's whether you're working in a bank or in a mechanic shop or on a farm. You know, I think that's just life. But, most of the it it always amaze me that as bad as we can butcher some things, policy wise and whatnot, we were always able to find great people. And a lot of them were younger, but they're motivated, and they truly and I think if you have the buy in, you get the result. You know? And I I guess as a millennial, you know, whether that's a good thing or not, but I think if you've got personal buy in and if you can see, you know, the end product, I think oftentimes you can get people to buy in and and really go to work for you.
[00:31:15] Unknown:
Well, I think, you you definitely have me already on your side when you wanna take that away from the government, but given it to a nonprofit is very clever. So I'm gonna give you a, seven five on this Peter Thiel paradox. Moving on to the worthy adversary, this is where I'm gonna ask you, who is one person that you respect but strongly disagree with?
[00:31:36] Unknown:
I struggle with this one too, Vance. You and I talked before the show here, but, honestly, I'm calling out the conservation districts across the country. As a fourteen year veteran of the USDA NRCS, there are some conservation districts and the boards that, you know, work for them, lead them. Some of them are excellent, and some of them are not worth the taxes that are going to them. And, I've seen both. I've worked with both. And when they're working well, man, they can get a lot of stuff done, and they can help a lot of people. And they can solve these issues locally, like we're seeing, you know, in the Iowa conversation here tonight.
But I tell you there's also some that they just show up to the meetings, and they're not getting stuff done. And I think as landowners, taxpayers, farmers, but anybody in the community, You have the infrastructure in every county in the country, essentially. We should be getting results out of these folks. And, again, I'd like to I I think a worthy adversary in terms of if you're not getting the job done, let's get some folks in these positions that are. And, and I think we can do a lot of good things. And, again, that local control versus federal, I think it always probably side at the local or at least, again, maybe 90% of the time. But I think there's a lot of opportunity. The infrastructure is there.
And, and they can they can demand, that the USDA, ups their game a little bit or changes policies. I think if enough of them get together, they can make some things happen. So I'm calling out the conservation districts. Again, there's some good there's some really bad ones. I think, I think it's an important tool again to get things done locally.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
Well, alright. There that's gonna be a little hard to put on the list, but we do keep a list of the worthy adversaries. And if you wanna go find people that are worthy of respect but, strongly disagree, they're right there. I wanna, thank you for, putting so much thought into it. So, Jason, as we wrap up, if, people wanted to learn more about you, to connect with you, where would you recommend they go to do that?
[00:33:32] Unknown:
I don't know if I can recommend the Twitter because I don't know. I probably get a little wild on there sometimes and have likes and stuff that maybe I shouldn't, but, that's one way. But, honestly, if somebody ever wanted to reach out, hit me up through there, and I'd be happy to connect. And, actually, I'm kinda, you know, in a transitional part of life right now. I haven't stepped away from the USDA. I have another job job lined up that I'm currently just started. But I'm kinda looking for for other things here too. And I wanna stay in the conservation realm, but also in the egg policy realm. And, in advance, we talked before the show, taking a test this summer to see if I might be going back to school for a little bit too and maybe, an idea that, you know, I had dating back to my college days back in the early two thousands.
Might end up going to law school if it works out. But if I fail that test, then if I fail that LSAT, you know, then I'm gonna save myself a lot on tuition too. So I'm not worried about it.
[00:34:20] Unknown:
Well, best of luck to you, man. I love your acts. That's how we found you. You know, I've I thought you were tweeting some good stuff today. And, when I told one of my buddies that you're coming on, he was like, oh, that'll be great. He knew all about you even though he'd never met you. So Oh, that's scary. Yeah. They're out there. So, thank you, Jason, for coming on, and we'll see you again. Alright. To wrap up the show, I wanna thank you for joining me. If you would like to be a part of the Ag Tribes Report, you can always send me stories on advancecro on x or advancecro at advancelegacyinterviews dot com. Also, if you're interested in having me sit down with one of your loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations can know about their childhood, what it was like when they were growing up, the challenges they face, the things that they built throughout their career, their marriage, raising kids, then go to legacyinterviews.com and there you can schedule a call with me. I'll talk with you for fifteen, thirty minutes, something like that, and we'll talk about what stories are you hoping to capture, what are your parents like, and, what kind of options do we have that might be right for you. It has been a very busy summer, but I am always up for these calls to try and find them. And, the calls that are the hardest are when people say, ah, man, I waited too long, and now can we rush and get this done? We always help people out whenever they're doing that, but, you wanna do this at a point where your parents or your grandparents are in a great state of mind and, and they're excited about doing and nothing's rushed. So go to legacyinterviews.com to find out more. Also, last week, I kind of, at the last minute, threw out there that, I've taught this class called interest based communication, which is where I combine, interest based negotiating, the type of negotiating that I learned in graduate school and then used over the last fifteen years, and different communications techniques like how to introduce yourself, how to tell stories more effectively, how to present your eyes ideas so that other people wanna listen to them, and how to get through conflict.
And I had seven people reach out just from that one mention, and so I'm gonna throw it out here. I don't know what the cost is gonna be. When we do it in person, it's a thousand dollars. I don't think I'm gonna do that price. But if you are interested in being in an online class where we can learn these skills and you can develop them in a way that no other communication class does, what people tell me afterwards is that this is an incredibly practical class. People are able to use what we talk about in each lesson and immediately apply it to their lives. Then, just send me an email to at, [email protected].
And, once we get I don't know. Maybe when we get 15 people, I'll pull the class off and, we'll get it all set up. So you're interested, send me an email, [email protected]. I will also include a link in the show notes to buy Bitcoin. As you can tell from the show, I believe that this is one way to be able to head off the the scourge that is inflation. And I believe that, it makes everybody's life better when they have hard money. That's gonna do it for this week's show. We'll be back next week. And as always, feel free to disagree.
The Ag Tribes Report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are so the future knows who they really were. Here are Legacy Interviews guests, Mark and Stephanie Mendenhall, on the unexpected ease of their experience.
[00:00:18] Unknown:
What'd you guys think? How was it? Much easier than I expected. Yep.
[00:00:22] Unknown:
Much easier. You made us feel very comfortable. Was this something that weighed on you for a while? They had her ideas on it. Well, he looked at it and said, well, we'll just wing it. Because, you know, you give this list of figured out this out and figure this out. Oh, well, we didn't get that done. What what we remember, we remember. And what we forgot, we'll tell the kids later. Tomorrow, I'll say, god, why didn't I tell this story? Or why didn't I tell them about this? You do a good job of asking questions.
[00:00:50] Unknown:
Welcome to the Agtribe's report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host, Vance Crowe. The report begins in three, two, one. Let's begin.
[00:01:06] Unknown:
Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crowe. Each week, I bring on a cohost to represent the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week, we have Jason Hanson, an NDSU alumnus who relocated from North Dakota to North Carolina with his wife to start a farming venture focused on sustainable agriculture. A vocal critic of big ag and government overreach, Hanson is working to establish a small farm on a former plantation, with the goal of raising beef and promoting regenerative farming practices. Jason, welcome to the Ag Tribes Report. Thank you, Vance. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the invite. Sue, tell me a little bit about this, farm you just purchased.
[00:01:49] Unknown:
Yes, sir. So, yeah, about a year ago, we relocated, originally from North Dakota, but we actually a few stops along the way, we were out in Utah for a couple years, all with, my career with the NRCS, USDA NRCS, which spanned about fourteen years. But North Dakota, we went out to Utah for a couple years back in North Dakota, then we went out to the Pacific Islands. We were out on Oahu in Hawaii, for the last four years before moving to the Raleigh area. We're actually east. We're in Tarboro, mailing address, North Of Tarboro here in Eastern North Carolina. And, yeah, we bought a 10 acre property out here. Took a national headquarters job with the NRCS based out of Raleigh, but, actually, I took the federal buyout here, earlier this spring and, just needed to get out of that and, into something now next. I guess that's the farm now. It's probably gonna be a few different other things, but the goal here on this 10 acre property was to get it up and running again. It's an old 1848 plantation house we bought with the 10 acres.
About four or five of it has been in production before, dating back to, you know, when this place was built in 1848. All the things that come with those, you know, over those years too. We've got photo documents here, you know, of activities out here in in the whole history as you can about imagine in North Carolina and those times. It's pretty interesting. It's on the historic, register, but we have never or nobody else, previous owners, has never taken any money for it. So we don't have the limitations there. So we've got some flexibilities, but we did purchase, with the idea of, hopefully, beef here at some point. We might have to buy land for that, but we're doing a little vegetable production in year one, but also cut flowers, which my wife, kind of her primary goal is to get out of nursing in the medical field full time at least, long term. So that was kind of the goal here is to get into cut flowers, so vegetable production, and just largely being able to grow what we can, you know, kinda subsistence farming, if you will, to a point, then sell whatever else we can as well.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
So that's what we can do. Pretty it's a pretty, wild ride to go from NRCS to actually farming, so I'm, I'm glad to bring on your perspective, this week. Appreciate that. So next week, we're gonna be talking about corn the corn market facing a perfect storm. We have a lot of supply, and, we're watching the potential for ethanol demand to decline as EVs are gaining traction. We're also gonna talk about Central Iowa's unprecedented nitrate contamination crisis forcing the first ever lawn watering ban, and we're gonna talk about Trump's, decision to rescind the roadless rule, opening 58,000,000 acres of National Forest 2 logging. We're also gonna do the Bitcoin land price report. We're gonna hear Jason's take on the Peter Thiel paradox, and we're gonna hear about his worthy adversary, try and do that in just thirty minutes. So let's get started.
Headline number one, corn market faces perfect storm oversupply meets EV threat. The US corn market is under pressure from near record production and growing inventories with a potential challenge from the rise of electric vehicles and robo taxis that could reduce demand, even further for, corn based ethanol. The USDA estimates that twenty twenty four corn harvests at 15,000,000,000 bushels, one of the largest ever on record, and ending stocks are predicted at almost 2,000,000,000 bushels. This is an increase of over 178,000,000 bushels previous year.
Corn futures were trading at $4.11 per bushel, down over 10% from the past month. So if you've been storing grain hoping for prices to rebound, things just got a lot worse. This is all set against the backdrop of Elon Musk launching robo taxis in Austin, Texas this week, which are both electric and will potentially lower the need for people to own vehicles. Rides during their training phase are marked at just $4.20 as a flat rate, and Musk has claimed that future costs could drop as low to 30 to 40¢ per mile, for the cyber cab. So if you consider this and how much that might take out of demand for ethanol production, which currently accounts for 35 to 40% of US corn use, this could have a pretty big impact on what is already a lot of supply. So, Jason, it seems like supply has outstripped demand and that the markets are gonna put a lot of farmers in a perilous position. Is this a passing phase, or is this, the new reality for for corn farmers?
[00:06:25] Unknown:
You know, Vance, I can't I got a brother that farms up in North Dakota yet, and, you know, mom and dad farmed, forever. We grew up working on small family farms, but I I don't think it's a new trend by any means, but I also don't think it's the new reality either. I think it's the reality that's been here. You know, I again, I remember my parents' auction sales about five years old. That's what I remember of my parents' farming. They got out like a lot of people did in the late eighties, early nineties. You know, they just it was what they had to do to save the land. That's what they had to do. And, like I said, I got a brother that farms up there, corn, soybeans, sugar beets, those things, you know. So it it hits home, hearing these things. I got another brother that has a excavation business, a lot of drain tile installation, things like that, and he's done very well for himself. And I started I worked for him for eight years too up in North Dakota.
And then combined with working with, you know, small family farms and big farmers as well all across the country with the USDA NRCS, I mean, it absolutely hits home, but it's not a game that we can even consider playing and, you know, financially. It just isn't. And, you know, unless you're born into it, it doesn't seem like there's any way to really get into it unless you get really lucky. And, of course, those stories happen. It isn't something that can't be done.
[00:07:36] Unknown:
But for us realistically to get in the corner of soybean production, but specifically corn production at scale, it's just not something that we can do. So that's why we're going a different route, the kind of power. I mean, farmers this this week have been talking all about how crazy the markets are. If you follow any grain traders, they're talking about it, like, trying to catch a falling knife. And I heard one guy on x. He was, a banker. He was talking about how this is really impacting people's operating lines of credit. If you were taken out I think you gave the example of $300,000 of for an operating line and you're waiting for corn prices to go back up so you could sell, now you're trying to go to the bank to extend the operating line because you don't wanna sell at these depressed prices, but the bank's gonna say, hey, you you gotta sell.
[00:08:21] Unknown:
Then that further adds more sub supply onto the market, thus further dropping prices. Seems like pretty rough out there for corn farmers right now. For sure. Well, I can tell you Vance, I never thought I'd be in invited to do something like this years ago because I think when I first got on Twitter, you know, I was coming from, you know, the NRCS USDA side of things and, you know, kind of with that lens, if you will. And I remember making comments on Twitter, tweeting, I guess, you could say, you know, hey. Like, if you guys know the corn prices are terrible, then why you keep planting it? You know, it's just very simple question. And I tell you, the hate that you get for saying something so simple, it's kind of astounding sometimes. Of course, that comes with anything on the Internet, but,
[00:09:02] Unknown:
I think it's a fair question. Well, I mean, I think it's because they're insured to do it. Right? I I I spoke with a buddy this week that got a 6 figure check, for for things not going right, and he didn't he didn't you know, things go wrong and you still get paid. And as long as you plant corn and soy, the government's gonna keep giving you that money. I think it's clearly incentivized by the government.
[00:09:25] Unknown:
Absolutely. Especially when you're doing it by the acre too and and even by you know, if you've got more than one person, you know, in your entity, you get more dollar. You know, there's so many things that the USDA does that promotes the big time operators versus small farms. That's part of the reason why I left.
[00:09:41] Unknown:
Alright. Moving on to headline number two, Central Iowa nitrate crisis forces first ever lawn watering ban. According to Iowa Public Radio, Des Moines Water Works took an unprecedented step of issuing a lawn watering ban in an effort to keep up with demand for nitrate free drinking water after nitrate levels spiked in the Des Moines and Raccoon Rivers. Central Iowa is experiencing a severe nitrate contamination crisis leading to the first ever watering ban affecting over 600,000 residents. Farming pollution to the unsafe river conditions. Nitrates levels in untreated water consistently exceed the EPA's 10 per liter limit forcing the Central Iowa works to run nitrate removal facilities at full capacity using reverse osmosis and ion exchange.
This is incredibly expensive, and they still have struggled to get it down to ten milligrams per liter. In fact, it was at eleven milligrams per liter. Risk because for infants under the age of six months, they can develop blue baby syndrome, because not you can't get enough oxygen in the blood. So this is going on. Iowa ag secretary Mike Nag took to LinkedIn to attribute the nitrate spikes to weather saying there's, hey. There's been so much rain in Iowa. It's, you know, it's not just agriculture. It's also natural in soils. There's urban runoff and other sources like golf courses. And so he's trying to say, hey. Don't blame, agriculture too much on this. What do you think, Jason? You have been in this field, lot of accusations happening.
Is this agriculture's fault? Is this just the way that it is? Or are golf courses trying to keep their lawns too green?
[00:11:37] Unknown:
Well, I think it's I think like anything in life, I think it's a little bit of everything. And, there's a lot of nuance here, and I think on the agricultural side of things, you know, not to get too long winded on this, but, you you know, the MBS has been around. So conservation service, NRCS has been, you know, active for over ninety years here, and we still haven't figured out the baseline soil health, you know, to raise that to raise that bar to achieve baseline soil health across the country, which basically was the mission of the soil conservation service and NRCS effectively.
It's not the first time it's rained heavy in Iowa. It's not the last time. It's not the first time it's been dry. You know, those things happen. It goes in cycles. I think we all know that. You know, the climate change kind of stuff, it gets politicized and whatnot. But, I mean, what we're truly trying to achieve is resilience, in keeping those nutrients in the field, and where they're put and so they can be used appropriately and not over applying in all these things. And that goes for everybody. That's not just saying that's golf courses, that's your residential, you know, all across the spectrum.
You know, but I think to blame it on the weather, I don't know. Like, he must be up for reelection or something, but, I just I don't that doesn't work with me because, again, it's not the first time it's rained. It's not the last time it's gonna rain.
[00:12:49] Unknown:
I think you have to expect these things, and I think we have to raise the bar on what we're willing to accept or not. I just Well, Elliot Henderson just commented. It's a 100,000 pounds of naturally occurring nitrate in Iowa's farmland. The farmers are not the problem here. When I was doing research for this story, I did find out, like, when you have heavy rains and, man, Iowa has been just getting hit over and over again. It does leach out nitrates. Also, they've got all this, land is tiled, which means that water is moving much, much faster off the fields. I don't know. It's hard to say that it's not agriculture's fault, but, it, you know, it's it's definitely they're definitely making a contribution.
[00:13:28] Unknown:
Yeah. I think I think you'd be a little crazy to say it's it's not contributing. Right? I mean, that's that's just not realistic. To what degree you know, again, those things can be debated and decided, but, again, I think what are we doing knowing that the rains are gonna come and keep coming? What are we gonna do about it? And I think that's the question where I go to in my is, okay, knowing that these things are gonna happen, whether it's now or ten years from now or thirty years from now, because, again, the cycles are have always been there. What are we doing to prepare for it? How can you keep it in place? And I think that's where we need to do you have outside of not put on, you know, fertilizer. Are there other options?
Well, I think, you know, again, the the even the term soil health has been probably abused not to the point of, you know, climate change, but probably abused and, you know, I think, regurgitated enough and forget my comment here, but bastardized enough, you know, that some people just laugh at it when they hear it. But I think, basically, the principles, if you can do the no till or the strip till, you know, I think there's some things there. I think incorporating the cover crops, you know, I know people get sick of hearing that, but they are an effective tool just like drain tile's an effective tool. You know, I think the nutrient management, I think the grazing options that aren't used on the bulk of American cropland, I think there's a lost resource there, and I think, you know, instead of applying all these synthetics, is there other ways that we can get the fertilizers on the ground in a more natural way? I think there's a ton of things we can do.
The crop rotations are a big part of it. Look at what Jason Mauck is doing. I was supposed to be in Indiana last week for his field day, the alley cropping. We were working with that in Hawaii too and trying to get figured out. You know, we've lost the ability on how to do a lot of those things, but people way before us were doing it. And now with our new technology, I think the combination there is gonna get us there. But we just have to we gotta do it at scale, and I think it is scalable. It just you know, I think we we let perfection get in the way of progress on a lot of these fronts.
[00:15:29] Unknown:
Well, we're gonna follow this and see just how long the nitrate stays in Iowa's drinking water. We'll revisit this, but moving on to our final headline of the day, headline three, Trump rescinds Clinton era roadless rule, opens up 58,000,000 acres to logging. The Trump administration has rescinded the 2,001 roadless area conservation rule of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins, announcing a decision during the Western Governors Association meeting in New Mexico earlier this week. The move ends decades of protection for nearly 59,000,000 acres of national forest land, road construction, timber harvesting, and wildfire prevention efforts. The roadless rule was implemented by the Clinton administration prohibited road building and commercial logging across the, 58,000,000 acres of pristine forests. The policy is aimed, was aimed at preserving wildlife habit, safeguarding drinking water, and protecting recreational areas. I did do a little look into where this is. Some of this stuff is not going to be logged. The Tongass National Forest is, is unlikely to be logged, but Sierra Nevada, the Wasatch Range in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Washington all have had serious problems with, with, wildfires.
Allegedly reduced economic development in the forestry industry by over 25%, and the rescission aligns with President Trump's executive order directing the Department of Agriculture and Interior to reduce wildfire risk, boosting timber mill sales. So and it looks like there might be up to $500,000,000 that will go to the, US Forest Service for stumpage fees if they start, cutting those out. So Jason, what do you think? Is is this really a genuine forest management issue that's gonna lower wildfires, or is this, a corporate giveaway?
[00:17:28] Unknown:
You know, again, Vance, I think it's probably, in some respects, maybe a little bit of both, but I tell you, in the two years, we spent two years from 2015 to 2017 working for NRCS out in Southwestern Utah. Lived in Cedar City. Wife worked down Saint George, worked up in Panguitch right by Bryce Canyon National Park. And I tell you, coming from, you know, North Dakota where it's I forget the percentages, but, basically, all private land in Eastern North Dakota to going out to Southwestern Utah where I think it was 97%, 96% federal lands out there. Either Forest or BLM had control.
It it it really was kinda shocking to see the difference, pros and cons. But I tell you the locals wanted more local control, and I understand that to a point. I think state control and, you know, the stuff with Mike Lee, the senator from Utah here lately, also kind of in a line here and trying to sell some of the federal lands. I mean, I think all these kind of things overlap. These discussions and these policies overlap in some respects. Sure. Is it a corporate giveaway? Yeah. Potentially. I think there's a real high potential for that because everything in our government seems to go that way. But, also, do some of these lands need to be managed to reduce the fire risk and other things? I think absolutely. You've seen I forget what the name of the beetle, out in Southwestern Utah. I mean, the fire has basically killed that thing off, and when it runs rampant, it kills all the trees, and then you get these massive fires following.
Again, that's been ten years since we've lived out there now, but it's, you know, I think anybody out in that area would know what I'm talking about, and they could speak to it obviously far better than I can. But, you know, again, do the forest management plans need to happen? Is the actual action need to take place? Absolutely. I think so. You know, again, it it gets chalked up to to climate change, but I think it's just poor land management. And I you know, that kinda covers all these topics.
[00:19:17] Unknown:
Yeah. The twenty twenty one Dixie fire that caught over, almost a million acres in the twenty seventeen Rice Ridge Fire was a 160,000 acres. And these are sparked by lightning, and they get way worse because there haven't been any roads to be built in there. So you don't have the the access, and then you also have a way overabundance of trees. On the other hand, 60% of fires are started by humans, that are in camping areas that aren't going to be logged. So, you know, maybe there's other things they should be doing if you're really going after wildfires.
[00:19:49] Unknown:
Right. Right. And knowing that, I mean, is there more management could could be done closer to the roads, you know, versus, I mean, there's a whole bunch of things there that a forester could tell you better than I could. But I think, again, it's it seems to be a little bit of everything.
[00:20:02] Unknown:
Alright. Well, that is gonna do it for the news this week. If you have, stories that you think I should be covering, you can always send them to me on x at Vance Crowe or email them to me, [email protected]. All three stories came from listeners this week, so thank you very much for that. Moving on now to the Bitcoin land price report. Last week, Bitcoin was at a 105,000, and today, we're sitting at a $107,500, which is up 2.3%.
[00:20:33] Unknown:
So, Jason, what county in North Carolina do you live in, and how much does, land going for? A good acre of farmland there. Yeah. So we bought our property North of Tarboro, which is situated, right in Edgecomb County, North Carolina. And, average value out here is about 6,000 an acre. And, you know, it's it really is quite the variety out here. There's a lot of development coin kind of coming from both directions, east and west from the Raleigh from the West, Greenville from the Southeast. You know, it's just it there's a lot of a lot of activity out in this area. If you're paying 6,000 for an acre, what are you doing with it? Are you are you grazing? Are you running crops? What are you doing? There's a lot of cropland out here. A lot of trees that were here, there's been a lot of trees removed even since we moved out here last year. You know, and, again, I don't know the history of it. I don't know, you know, what the cycles are there, but a lot of you know, there's watermelon production. There's, cotton production's big. Of course, tobacco production is big.
There's soybeans out here. There's field of sunflowers out here as well. And and then, of course, our little 10 acres. But, you know, it's, there's a lot of interesting things going on around here. Different ag than I'm used to, but it's an interesting part of the country.
[00:21:45] Unknown:
Alright. Well, at 6,000 an acre, that means, you can get an acre for point $0.05 5 Bitcoin or 1 Bitcoin would get you seven point 17.9 acres. How does that sit with you?
[00:21:59] Unknown:
I wish I had some Bitcoin, man. We have a little, but not enough.
[00:22:03] Unknown:
Well, I love hearing that. You know, this week, actually, just last night, I encountered a, a guy that I follow. His name is Jack Mallers. He's, he sells Bitcoin on a on a on an app called Strike. He's runs a different company, but he actually put something out that I thought is, is something worth listening to. So I thought I would let him play for just two minutes. This is a video by Jack Mahler's on how is the economy actually doing. He's asking me, hey, Jack.
[00:22:32] Unknown:
If Trump's official policy is America first and telling China get their money out of the country, and everyone goes, well, isn't the stock market then gonna have to go down? And I say, yes, absolutely. They say, but Jack, it keeps going up. Going up in what? Brooklyn Daily Eagle, 10/24/1929, the Great Depression. The DGIA hits its lowest point on 07/08/1932, 89% below its September 29 peak, defining the most significant bear market in Wall Street's history. The market would not return to its 1929 high until 1954. The Great Depression. So the stock market down 89%.
And people say, but, Jack, the stock market has not been down that much in recent memory. In 1929, the dollar was backed by gold, so the stock market was down 89 in gold terms. That's why it was a real depression. You see? Let me show you. From 2000 to 02/2011, the stock market was down 89% in gold terms. So if you measured the stock market in gold, you already lived through a great depression, hotshot. You just didn't see it. We had a great depression in plain sight. How? Manipulation of the money. What I'm saying is, yes, the stock market is going to get obliterated. Obliterated.
In what? Not in dollars. Stop looking at things in dollars. You're gonna miss these things in broad daylight. The whole world has already lived through stock market crashes, just not in dollar terms. People say, oh, man. My stock portfolio is up again this year. Weird. Why can't I afford rent? That's weird. Why am I getting less groceries? That's weird. Filling up my tank is really expensive. But my stock market went up. Depends what you're measuring in. You understand? The S and P 500 against Bitcoin over the last five years, Down 81%.
What about food? Food's down 85% against Bitcoin in the last five years. We lived through a depression and a performance that was greater than the Great Depression, but no one batted an eye because they used the wrong measuring stick.
[00:25:03] Unknown:
So I know he's talking about, the stock market, but to me, I look at that and I think, man, at at corn prices at $4.11, I wonder what it is priced in gold. And I went and looked it up. I was trying to put it up here. I I'm not able to get it up, but it's not looking good. Like, yeah. Yeah. We're not only are we at depressed prices, but the value of the dollar and what it can buy you even if you were able to sell it at a higher price is hurting. How does that sit with you, Jason?
[00:25:30] Unknown:
Well, I think dating back to even the, you know, the initial wave of COVID back in 2020 when they were, you know, talking about sending out checks to everybody. I remember making comments at that point, like, man, that $4,200 or whatever we got in our family of three, we're really gonna pay for that. And I think the more money we print I mean, we see it every year, and it's just it's insane. It needs to stop, in my opinion, you know, but it's gonna hurt. But I think the more we go on here, it's gonna hurt worse. And I think, again, just the the general policies that we've been, you know, kinda stuck in the ruts that we've been, you know, just kinda coasting along here and keep spending and spending and spending. It's gonna catch up with us sometime. And I think the argument could be made that it certainly already has.
[00:26:10] Unknown:
Yeah. I think that farmers right now are feeling that and and even if you're, upset about $4.11 corn, if you compare that to what $4.11 bought you just, you know, a year ago, it that's really that's a really big hurting you're putting on. Absolutely. Alright. So now moving on to the Peter Thiel paradox. This is where I am gonna ask Jason, what is one thing that you believe that almost nobody in your tribe agrees with
[00:26:37] Unknown:
you on? You know, I kinda struggled with this one a little bit, Vance, but I think one thing I come back to is, one of the reasons I I felt comfortable leaving, the USDA, the NRCS, was I think the ability to do the mission better, more efficiently, than we have been as an agency. And I think the way one of the ways it could be done is running through a nonprofit. And I know the NGOs, nonprofits especially have been catching a lot of flack, especially since the new administration came in in January. I think, like, USAID, you know, those kind of things, those topics, whether you believe what was going on or not. I think there's, you know, again, some of that stuff may be up for debate what was truly going on. But I think the nonprofit world has taken a hit in some respects in that, but I I also think that nonprofits could largely if you get the right people running them and if you have the right missions, associated with them, I think they can largely replace much of what the federal governments do, or federal government does, and I think state governments as well. And I think there's a lot of, you know, NRCS specifically, you know, the old mission. I don't remember the new long worded one. It doesn't matter.
But the one that I came into the age with was helping people help the land. I mean, there's a million ways to do that, but there's some very easy ways, like we were talking about with the rain situation and the nitrates in Iowa and elsewhere. There's some soil health things that could be done with nonprofit offer long term land rental contracts. I'll put it in the easement form. And I think if you had the right mindset, I'm working on that, trying to create my own. And if there's anybody out there listening that already has a framework for it and they wanna go work together, let me know. But, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, but I just think there's a lot of opportunity through the nonprofit realm to get a lot of things done to actually help people. And then it could be said for health insurance. I mean, anything.
[00:28:29] Unknown:
What's interesting to me about your Peter Thiel paradox is I I completely agree with you that the government can't do a good job of it, but I would go towards private enterprise, towards, you know,
[00:28:39] Unknown:
business doing this. How come you say nonprofits instead of private business? Well, again, I think there's some nonprofits out there that are are worthless too. I mean, I think we all can admit that. There's some that, you know, raise a lot of money and what do they get done. I mean, I think there's some hard questions that need to be asked. But I think even like a good politician, which I don't know if there are any, but I think if you are transparent with what you're doing and if you're really being efficient with the money that you are raising, I I just don't see how it's you know, it basically is private.
It's actionable like a private entity could be. It can be as efficient as a private entity, but you're just getting your financing from, you know, basically the collective. You know? If you have a good enough mission, I think people would be willing to donate to you. And and that money wouldn't have to get through you know, run through the federal avenues. And, actually, the tax savings and things that can be achieved by donating to a nonprofit that's certified, you know, I think bypassing the federal government, not only on the policy side, but also the tax side, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
[00:29:39] Unknown:
Yeah. And then at that point, if you're doing it anytime time you're doing it outside of the government, then it's not done through force. Then it's, hey, whatever's going on, you know, we can collect and what they can get on board, you know, other people on board for, then it's then it's,
[00:29:53] Unknown:
it's demand driven as opposed to supply driven. Correct. That's the one thing I always appreciated. Well, two things I appreciated about my career at the NRCS was, number one, the people. 90% of the people are absolutely excellent, and they want to be there, and they're trying to do the right things. And I think that's probably with every federal agency and or, you know, really in any part of life. I think most people are trying to do a good service. But, also, you know, I think, I lost my train of thought there. Sorry.
[00:30:19] Unknown:
That's alright. Yeah. I mean, there's the real Peter Thiel paradox about the, you know, 90% of the people are they actually contributing, when they're working in the government. That is I would you make that case?
[00:30:33] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's pretty high. I mean, some of the folks that I've been able to work with over the career, you know, again, there's 10% that you never wanna work with again. Right? I think that's I think that's whether you're working in a bank or in a mechanic shop or on a farm. You know, I think that's just life. But, most of the it it always amaze me that as bad as we can butcher some things, policy wise and whatnot, we were always able to find great people. And a lot of them were younger, but they're motivated, and they truly and I think if you have the buy in, you get the result. You know? And I I guess as a millennial, you know, whether that's a good thing or not, but I think if you've got personal buy in and if you can see, you know, the end product, I think oftentimes you can get people to buy in and and really go to work for you.
[00:31:15] Unknown:
Well, I think, you you definitely have me already on your side when you wanna take that away from the government, but given it to a nonprofit is very clever. So I'm gonna give you a, seven five on this Peter Thiel paradox. Moving on to the worthy adversary, this is where I'm gonna ask you, who is one person that you respect but strongly disagree with?
[00:31:36] Unknown:
I struggle with this one too, Vance. You and I talked before the show here, but, honestly, I'm calling out the conservation districts across the country. As a fourteen year veteran of the USDA NRCS, there are some conservation districts and the boards that, you know, work for them, lead them. Some of them are excellent, and some of them are not worth the taxes that are going to them. And, I've seen both. I've worked with both. And when they're working well, man, they can get a lot of stuff done, and they can help a lot of people. And they can solve these issues locally, like we're seeing, you know, in the Iowa conversation here tonight.
But I tell you there's also some that they just show up to the meetings, and they're not getting stuff done. And I think as landowners, taxpayers, farmers, but anybody in the community, You have the infrastructure in every county in the country, essentially. We should be getting results out of these folks. And, again, I'd like to I I think a worthy adversary in terms of if you're not getting the job done, let's get some folks in these positions that are. And, and I think we can do a lot of good things. And, again, that local control versus federal, I think it always probably side at the local or at least, again, maybe 90% of the time. But I think there's a lot of opportunity. The infrastructure is there.
And, and they can they can demand, that the USDA, ups their game a little bit or changes policies. I think if enough of them get together, they can make some things happen. So I'm calling out the conservation districts. Again, there's some good there's some really bad ones. I think, I think it's an important tool again to get things done locally.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
Well, alright. There that's gonna be a little hard to put on the list, but we do keep a list of the worthy adversaries. And if you wanna go find people that are worthy of respect but, strongly disagree, they're right there. I wanna, thank you for, putting so much thought into it. So, Jason, as we wrap up, if, people wanted to learn more about you, to connect with you, where would you recommend they go to do that?
[00:33:32] Unknown:
I don't know if I can recommend the Twitter because I don't know. I probably get a little wild on there sometimes and have likes and stuff that maybe I shouldn't, but, that's one way. But, honestly, if somebody ever wanted to reach out, hit me up through there, and I'd be happy to connect. And, actually, I'm kinda, you know, in a transitional part of life right now. I haven't stepped away from the USDA. I have another job job lined up that I'm currently just started. But I'm kinda looking for for other things here too. And I wanna stay in the conservation realm, but also in the egg policy realm. And, in advance, we talked before the show, taking a test this summer to see if I might be going back to school for a little bit too and maybe, an idea that, you know, I had dating back to my college days back in the early two thousands.
Might end up going to law school if it works out. But if I fail that test, then if I fail that LSAT, you know, then I'm gonna save myself a lot on tuition too. So I'm not worried about it.
[00:34:20] Unknown:
Well, best of luck to you, man. I love your acts. That's how we found you. You know, I've I thought you were tweeting some good stuff today. And, when I told one of my buddies that you're coming on, he was like, oh, that'll be great. He knew all about you even though he'd never met you. So Oh, that's scary. Yeah. They're out there. So, thank you, Jason, for coming on, and we'll see you again. Alright. To wrap up the show, I wanna thank you for joining me. If you would like to be a part of the Ag Tribes Report, you can always send me stories on advancecro on x or advancecro at advancelegacyinterviews dot com. Also, if you're interested in having me sit down with one of your loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations can know about their childhood, what it was like when they were growing up, the challenges they face, the things that they built throughout their career, their marriage, raising kids, then go to legacyinterviews.com and there you can schedule a call with me. I'll talk with you for fifteen, thirty minutes, something like that, and we'll talk about what stories are you hoping to capture, what are your parents like, and, what kind of options do we have that might be right for you. It has been a very busy summer, but I am always up for these calls to try and find them. And, the calls that are the hardest are when people say, ah, man, I waited too long, and now can we rush and get this done? We always help people out whenever they're doing that, but, you wanna do this at a point where your parents or your grandparents are in a great state of mind and, and they're excited about doing and nothing's rushed. So go to legacyinterviews.com to find out more. Also, last week, I kind of, at the last minute, threw out there that, I've taught this class called interest based communication, which is where I combine, interest based negotiating, the type of negotiating that I learned in graduate school and then used over the last fifteen years, and different communications techniques like how to introduce yourself, how to tell stories more effectively, how to present your eyes ideas so that other people wanna listen to them, and how to get through conflict.
And I had seven people reach out just from that one mention, and so I'm gonna throw it out here. I don't know what the cost is gonna be. When we do it in person, it's a thousand dollars. I don't think I'm gonna do that price. But if you are interested in being in an online class where we can learn these skills and you can develop them in a way that no other communication class does, what people tell me afterwards is that this is an incredibly practical class. People are able to use what we talk about in each lesson and immediately apply it to their lives. Then, just send me an email to at, [email protected].
And, once we get I don't know. Maybe when we get 15 people, I'll pull the class off and, we'll get it all set up. So you're interested, send me an email, [email protected]. I will also include a link in the show notes to buy Bitcoin. As you can tell from the show, I believe that this is one way to be able to head off the the scourge that is inflation. And I believe that, it makes everybody's life better when they have hard money. That's gonna do it for this week's show. We'll be back next week. And as always, feel free to disagree.
Introduction to the Ag Tribes Report
Jason Hanson's Sustainable Farming Journey
Corn Market Challenges and EV Impact
Government Incentives and Corn Production
Iowa's Nitrate Crisis and Agricultural Impact
Soil Health and Sustainable Practices
Trump's Rescission of the Roadless Rule
Bitcoin Land Price Report
Economic Insights from Jack Mallers
The Peter Thiel Paradox
Worthy Adversary: Conservation Districts
Connecting with Jason Hanson
