The Vance Crowe Podcast

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In this episode of the Ag Tribes Report, host Vance Crowe welcomes crop consultant Joel Ailts from St. Croix, Wisconsin to discuss the intricacies of soil microbiology and regenerative farming practices. Joel shares insights into innovative approaches like cover cropping and optimizing micronutrient management, while also addressing the challenges posed by unpredictable weather conditions on crop productivity. The conversation delves into the potential impacts of artificial intelligence on agronomy, with Joel expressing both excitement and concern about AI tools like Grok.

The episode also covers several pressing agricultural headlines, including the Farm Bureau's battle with the MAHA Commission over pesticide safety, a new spending bill promising significant tax relief for farmers, and the threat of a new world screwworm outbreak from Mexico. Additionally, the discussion touches on a massive SNAP fraud scheme affecting the agricultural food chain and explores the controversial topic of glyphosate use in farming. The show concludes with a Bitcoin land price report and a deep dive into Joel's unique agronomy practices.

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The Ag Tribes Report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews,   a video service that captures people as they really are so the future knows who they really were. Here is Legacy Interviews guest, Carol Hensley, discussing the   quiet person to speak their mind.  

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How was it for you, the experience? Very comfortable. Tried to sit down every morning for a week or two and   reflect   on my life, and I'm recalling well over seventy years. I may not talk very much, but I think a lot, and I listen to other people. If they don't talk a lot, they're surely thinking. And if you ask them their opinion, they may share it with you. You'll ask for my opinion.   I don't mind sharing that. I think I probably talked more than I should have. No. Not at all.  

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Welcome to the Agtribe's report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture   with your host, Vance Crow.   The report begins in three,   two,   one. Let's begin.  

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Welcome to the Ag Tribes Report. I'm your host, Vance Crow. Each week, I bring on a cohost to represent the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture.   This week, we have Joel Iles,   a crop consultant from Northwestern Wisconsin who specializes in soil microbiology   and regenerative farming practices with a particular expertise   in rhizophagy   and nutrient synergies. He focuses on innovative approaches like cover cropping with rye and corn stubble and optimizing micronutrient   management to improve soil health and corn productivity   crop productivity.  

I met Joe at the ARM services event in Wisconsin where I was giving a talk on succession planning, and we had a fantastic   conversation.   And so I decided to invite him on the podcast. Joe, welcome to the Ag Tribes Report.  

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Vance, it's an honor to be here. I'm I'm thrilled to be here and to have this great conversation with you. So how is planting going up in, Wisconsin right now? Sure. So I'm up in Northwest Wisconsin. We're North Of The 40 Fifth Parallel. We're a stone's throw from Santa's workshop up here. I know Canadians will disagree,   but we're about as far north as you can get in Wisconsin without considering it the Northwoods. We had an awesome first two weeks of May. It was 85 degrees and sunny and no rain. Soil conditions were perfect. We got the crop in the ground in record rapid fashion.   But then mother nature throws us a curveball. And last week, we had cold, cold rain,   38 degrees. Woke up Saturday morning. There was frost on the ground. So the corn had emerged. It's now frosted down its tips. It's lime green in color. Farmers run around like chickens with their heads cut off going, oh my god. What's wrong with my corn? My advice is go fishing.  

Come back in a couple weeks. It's gonna be 85 degrees again this weekend. Everything's gonna be okay.   So the frost, is that that's not gonna kill off a percentage of it? You're you're not worried about that? Not on the corn. So the growing point's still below the ground until v five growth stage. And so, even though the first couple of leaves took a little bit of singe,   the corn's gonna be just fine. Many are asking how much should we take off the top end? Probably some, unfortunately. Any stress is gonna cap the upside potential,   see this crop turn around in rapid fashion, and we're gonna be back to business in no time.  

So you run an agronomy program, that I think is quite unique. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do day to day? Sure. I'm an independent crop consultant here in Northwest Wisconsin. I just do traditional agronomy for a lot of the farmers here in the four county area or just outside Minneapolis St. Paul. But I also have a   really strong interest in soil health and regenerative agriculture.   Love cover crops. I love minimizing tillage. I love using biological products and all the other things that are underneath that umbrella.   My goal is to meet farmers where they're at, figure out where they're at on their soil health journey,   principles to help them move along that spectrum so that they too can be happy with where they're at in terms of their own farming person's pulse. So it's an exciting space to be in. It's the Wild West. There's not many people out there doing this business   philosophy   that I thoroughly enjoy. And in the last couple of weeks, we've been talking a lot about AI and maybe eating, agronomist lunch. Are you worried about AI coming for you? Yeah. I'm absolutely terrified and thrilled at the same time. So Grok has become one of my best friends. If you're not familiar, Grok is Elon's AI tool. I ask it questions all the time, and its ability to do math is absolutely mind blowing. So I use it for my math calculations, and some will call me lazy for that. That's okay. I'm willing to accept that. But at the same time, I need time efficiency in my job just like anybody else does. Time's our most valuable resource. Groc helps me save time, and that I think is an incredible benefit. Will it put me out of a job eventually? Yeah. Sure. If farmers figure out how to ask Groc the right questions about agronomy, I'm no longer needed on the farm. However, until that time becomes realistic,   I'm happy to help answer questions for farmers   using rock to do so.  



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Sounds good. Alright. Let's get into the show on this week's episode of the Ag Tribes report. We're gonna dive into the farm bureau's heated battle with the Maha commission who, just posted that, they have some questions about pesticide safety. We're also gonna explore how the one big beautiful bill   promises $10,000,000,000   in tax relief for farmers.   We're also gonna talk about the new world screwworm outbreak threatening US livestock from Mexico,   and we're gonna talk a little bit about a snap fraud scheme   that, is, over $66,000,000.  

We will also explore the Bitcoin land price report. We're gonna hear Joe's take on his Peter Thiel paradox and find out who his worthy adversary is, and we're gonna do that all in just thirty minutes. So let's get started. Headline number one, Farm Bureau versus Maha, the pesticide safety battle. The American Farm Bureau Federation sent me an email. It wasn't just to me. It was to everybody's talking about their take   on, the Maha report. They have launched a fierce counter attack against the commission's report questioning modern farming practices,   particularly pesticides   like atrazine and glyphosate.  

AFBF president Zippy Duvall calls the report unscientific   fearmongering   affordable food production. The Farm Bureau argues decades of EPA regulations prove these chemicals are safe and essential, warning that restrictions could spike grocery prices and devastate farm livelihoods.   Endocrine disruption, and they're challenging the Farm Bureau's reliance on EPA approvals,   claiming that they're tainted by corporate influence from companies like Bayer. Maha advocates push for sustainable alternatives like organic and regenerative methods.   So I am very interested to hear what Joe, what do you think? Is someone deep into soil microbiology, regenerative  

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practices? Where do you stand on this new Maha report and where the Farm Bureau is pushing back on it? Yeah. I'm a bit torn. I think it's a great question. So if we remember back to campaign season, RFK and Nicole Shanahan mentioned regenerative agriculture and soil health many   times throughout throughout the campaign.   Little disappointed not to see it mentioned in the Maha report, but also perhaps unrealistic expectations given the fact that a lot of this report focused on what were some of the root causes of childhood diseases. Now, certainly some advocates out there can suggest that what we really need to start with with farming and regenerative agriculture   and soil health. But at the same time, I'm willing to give them a bit of a pass in that they really called out, I think, the most important aspects of the factors that in fact, childhood   diseases and and perhaps it's just too soon for us to expect regenerative agriculture and soil health to be part of the conversation. I think it'll come. We're just maybe we're not quite there yet in this first report.  



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So regenerative ag is this like very big squishy,  

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term. When you talk about regenerative ag, what does it mean? Yeah. Great question. So I think the best description of regenerative ag I've ever heard was given by fellow podcaster, Monty Bautens, whose simple definition is always improving. I like the simplicity of that definition. Always improving, I think, is something you can apply to however you would choose to apply to your farming practices.   And then, if that falls into the regenerative camp, I'm gonna give you credit for that if you're actually improving something.   Nuanced about that, I think regenerative agriculture is something that should align with this five soil health principles. I'm not gonna try to rattle those off here because I know I'll forget one, but things like cover cropping and minimizing tillage and using biologicals and improving soil health, I think all things that are fit underneath the regenerative umbrella. But I do agree with you. It's it's very murky what the true definition of that concept means.  



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Do you think that we should be opening up the EPA and and start rerunning these tests or have new qualifications   for chemistries like atrazine and glyphosate?  

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So, again, great question. These things are so loaded, and they cause so much controversy because oftentimes,   we're gonna give answers that are reductionist, very simplistic and straightforward without a whole lot of nuance.   I I I fully believe that the dose makes the poison. And so,   you know, it's a function of how much do we accrue over a lifetime and does anybody really know?   Point glyphosate application   and exposure to that probably isn't gonna have a whole lot of negative impact on health, but you continue to repeat exposure over multiple times over multiple seasons. I think that poses questions on whether or not we need to look at that from a much more comprehensive level.   Instead of looking at single point exposures and LD 50s,   do we need to actually study these things over long term exposures and then determine whether or not there's true risk to to human health?  



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Yeah, I, a few years ago had this network scientist named Laszlo Barabasi on, and he talked about how, you know, the way that you study something, whether it's safe or not, is you isolate it away from everything else.   And that that's actually not how anything works. You know, you you work as a network of things and a combination.   And, so I'm totally open to the idea that we should continue to test these things. If they're as safe as we've been, you know, that that many people believe they are right now, they should continue to stand up to scrutiny. My biggest thing is whatever your test is that you're gonna have, you have to have a standard before you set the test up. And then if the test passes that standard,   then you can't allow giant, you know, lawsuits of multibillions of dollars because what it's gonna do is make it so nobody ever uses chemistry ever again. Yeah. Yeah. That that's a very common sense approach you offer there, and I agree wholeheartedly that's the way we should be looking at this issue.  

Headline number two, one big beautiful bill delivers $10,000,000,000   for farmers.   The, the new spending bill contains major government support for agriculture, delivering over 10,000,000,000 in direct farmer support. The package includes 4,500,000,000.0   in income tax reductions, 2,200,000,000.0   from expanding section one nine nine a, small business deduction from 20% to twenty twenty to 23%   permanently,   benefiting the 98%   of farms that are passed through entities.   Also, on the estate tax front,   there is going to be nearly 650,000,000   in savings   when, the federal exemption is jumping up to $15,000,000   per individual that, can be passed down within families, $30,000,000   for couples. The bill also allocates $60,000,000,000   over ten years for farm programs,   strengthening safety net through increased,   reference prices   under PLC and enhanced agricultural risk coverage and boosted crop insurance,   premium subsidies.  

It, it's a complicated bill. It's, pretty crazy how much was in there for agriculture.   It seems like a significant change for farmers who are facing rising input costs and,   and low commodity price. What do you think? Is this gonna material impact farmers?  

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So again, it's a nuanced answer for me. I got a big picture perspective and then I got the more nuanced perspective. Big picture, I'm going to say that more money in farmers' pockets is probably a good thing. Hardly anybody's gonna disagree with that in the ag world. But the question becomes is, you know, how is that money being paid out and what does it actually cover?   Obviously, a lower tax burden is gonna be beneficial, and no one's gonna argue that point. But in in additional subsidies for things like crop insurance and that, I think, are more more controversial in whether or not they're actually helping solve the problem that we have in agriculture.   What I personally would like to see through my agronomy lens   are more funds focused on doing things like helping build soil organic matter and adopting soil health principles. Again, I I I realize I look through that through a lens that most others don't given my my background in agronomy.  

However, I feel like so much more of this this,   incentives and money could be deployed in ways that truly benefit for the long term rather than simply putting a Band Aid over the wound to try to stop the bleeding. Let's get to the root cause. Let's try to build organic matter. Let's do things that are healthy for the soil, which we know translate to crop productivity,   could could pontificate for hours on this topic. I just feel like these these resources that are being allocated down through the agriculture channel should be better used to do things that build resilience in the system versus put a band aid on the wound.  

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Yeah. I'm all about, you know, tax cuts for everything, particularly the estate tax, which is just absolutely ridiculous that we have this. You should be able to pass down what you've created for your family. The thing I'm not happy about is anytime you start increasing   the crop insurance subsidies,   all you're doing is making that entrenched system stay the same. You make it so, hey, as long as you put a crop in the ground, you make sure you get those numbers so that way your average doesn't go down, then you're gonna be able to claim 80%   of that value every single year. I think they're actually even moving that up. They're making it cheaper for that insurance. I don't like this because we need churn. We need the people that have made mistakes, people that didn't do things in the right way to get out and then allow new people to come in. And without that, it is like, woods that never burn. Eventually, you get set up in a system where once that wildfire burns through it, it's way worse. So to me, anytime they're monkeying around and increasing the insurance, I know a lot of farmers like it, but I think it's making the system worse. That's a great perspective. 100% totally agree with your take on that. And, again, it comes back to are we actually building resilience in agriculture? Are we helping farmers be more productive and profitable with the way we're allocating federal dollars? I just don't see that happening in in, the current structure that we're we're approaching this with.  

So farm bill, you know, is gonna eventually have to get voted up or down. Maybe it doesn't. They'll just keep going. Do you foresee a farm bill getting passed during this administration?  

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Farmland. It's it's unfortunate to watch,   despite what we thought was going to be incredible turnaround with this administration.  

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It just seems like there's more cans kicking down the road. Don't get me wrong, there's great things happening on some fronts. But in terms of what Congress has not been able to achieve in making good reforms take place, I think we're all stuck here in disappointment land. Yeah. Speaking of disappointment, you mentioned, like, you would like to see the tax dollars being used to encourage positive, like, soil regenerative practices and things like this. My hesitation about that is as soon as you put an administration in and as soon as they start applying these baselines for how to get money, it's just like the way organic used to mean something. And I think, you know, you just have people rush in. They figure out what is the bare minimum. They go against the government system, you know, the check boxes.   New payment system, but it isn't really getting the outcomes that people were hoping for. Do you have a different perspective?  



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No. I I think that's a totally fair point. I guess if the if the federal government's gonna be in the business of handing out dollars, people are gonna step up and have their piece of pie. I mean, and I tell that to farmers directly. I say, if you're serving pie or somebody is serving pie, go grab your piece. I know you don't always wanna have it, but if you don't have your piece, someone else is gonna take it. So we we can't change the fact that they're serving pie, but if they're going to serve it, at least go grab your piece. Are there better ways to do that? Should we serve something other than pie? Absolutely. But if they're gonna serve it, grab your piece and and do what you can with that in order to help build more resilience in your system.  

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Don't hate the player, hate the game. Alright. Moving on to headline number three, new world screw worm, Mexico outbreak threatens US livestock.   The new world screw worm outbreak in Mexico is continuing to raise alarms across The US livestock country. Over fourteen hundred livestock cases has now been reported in Oaxaca and Veracruz since November of twenty four with the parasite just 700 miles from The US border. Mexico even reported its first human case in the April in April of a 77 year old woman in Mexico.   USDA Secretary, Brooke Rollins, suspended imports of live cattle last week, also horses and bison from Mexico indefinitely,   following the, the the capture of this screw worm. The USDA is intensifying   sterile fly release, but the Panama facility that, produces these sterile male flies can only produce a hundred million weekly. And it's at capacity and it's insufficient to halt the northward spread. It turns out that The US spent millions and millions of dollars to put out sterile flies. This has been a very effective way to keep it down in South America, but this has now been, broken through. And, just this last week, there was a suspected claim, a screwworm   in Missouri, but that report was debunked by the USDA.  

But it showed that the cattle markets are scared because they reacted, both up and down with that. A US outbreak could cost the livestock industry,   1,900,000,000.0   annually with Texas's fifteen billion dollars cattle industry at the greatest risk. The bipartisan Stop Screwworm Act proposes funding for a new US facility,   but faces delays. So the nineteen seventy two outbreak saw ninety thousand Texas cattle cases and, crop insurance doesn't cover livestock diseases like this, so ranchers could be vulnerable.   Joe, I know you focus on crops,   but this livestock situation could, ripple through the entire agricultural economy.  

Do you think it's possible to stop the spread of a disease carried by flies?  

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Yeah. I have a very simple straightforward answer to that question. How well did we do at stopping COVID?   I mean, when humans try to intervene in slowing down mother nature's ability to spread diseases, look what happens.   No, I don't think so. Now, granted, this this sterile fly program seems to have some degree of impact, but  

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do we really stop a disease from spreading like that? I don't think so. I don't think so. The takeaway for me is sterile flies have proven to be effective. I think when they they pushed it down in the seventies and eighties, they were they were using this strategy, which now has been a strategy they've used to jump over to malaria, malaria, which has been able to push some of that back. But, I mean, I'm with you. Like, it just seems like flies you're talking about Central And South America. It's huge swaths of land. It's you're talking about flies that are out in the wild.   I I just I to me, it seems like it's almost a foregone conclusion,   but that shouldn't mean that we should do what the Biden administration did and just to start proactively killing off chickens because, that's not gonna help either. Yeah. I I wonder if maybe if there's a way for us to mask the flies.  



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Sorry if that's too controversial.   If we could just get little mass on the flies, maybe they'd stop the disease. I  

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Yeah. Maybe do a little bit of social distancing.   Some ideas there. I Alright. Finally, headline number four, dollars 60 six million   snap fraud hits agricultural's   food chain.   A massive   $66,000,000   fraud scheme has exposed vulnerabilities in the USDA's   food assistant programs that directly support   agriculture.   USDA   employee, Arlyssa Davis, ironically tasked with identifying SNAP fraud,   instead   facilitated it through $36,000,000   in fake redemptions and $30,000,000   via unauthorized   terminals.   This fraud diverted funds that would have supported agricultural demands. SNAP supports over 41,000,000   Americans with 120,000,000,000   in annual benefits that boost farm product purchases.  

The 66,000,000   could have could have purchased approximately 13,000,000   pounds of produce directly supporting farmers   driven sales. SNAP sales at farmers markets alone generated $19,000,000   for small farmers in '23.   Every 1,000,000,000 in SNAP spending generates $180,000,000   in farm production.   Fraud represents potentially   $11,800,000   in lost farm output.   Joe, seems to me we should not have SNAP as a part of the farm bill. However, of course, those are gonna go to   purchasing goods that farmers are making. What do you think? Is fraud just an inevitable part of,  

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of having a program that assists the people with food? You know, it's a it's a sad state of affairs when we just have to accept that that's part of our standard   rooting out fraud, waste, and abuse. How can anybody in America look at that and go, that's a bad thing.   Handful of programs that they've identified where fraud, waste, and abuse is taking place. How can anybody disagree with that? We should all be rallying together to get behind everything that the Doge program has done to root this out, clean these programs up, and figure out better ways to allocate our hard earned tax dollars. That's just common sense.  

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Yeah. What I really hate about this fraud and feel like they should do something to make an example out of somebody if they're proven to be, guilty   is that I I worked at several camps for inner city kids, and there, I I met kids that genuinely didn't have food. They they would genuinely wake up in the morning and not have food for breakfast, or they would come home not having dinner.   And while this was completely shocking to me, when I experienced it, it's real. And yet when you have this kind of fraud, it's really easy to go in and be like, well, just cut the whole damn thing. I mean, this is all getting ripped off. People don't need it. They're buying soda. They're buying things that they don't need. But the truth is, like, there is a need. People are hungry. We have way more food, and we should be able to feed them or at least provide them support. But this kind of fraud makes me say, get this out of the hands of the government. Yeah. Yeah. One bad schoolroom fly spoils the soup. That's too too good.   Alright. That's gonna do it for this week's headlines. Thanks for those that sent, in some stories. That was very helpful. If you have news that you think we should cover on the Ag Tribes report, send it to [email protected]   or hit me up on x at Vance Crowe.  

Alright. Moving on to the Bitcoin land price report.   Last week, Bitcoin was sitting at a cool $111,000   and today we're down at 106,000.   So it's down a little bit more than 3.8%   from last week.  

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Joe, what is an acre of high quality farmland where you are in Northern Wisconsin? Where are you in Wisconsin? We are in St. Croix County. It's the fastest growing county in the state of Wisconsin for many years running just outside of Minneapolis, St. Paul Metro Area on the Wisconsin side. An acre of farmland in our neighborhood is gonna go for around $8,000  

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Alright, so with the price of Bitcoin being, dollars 106,000,   then that means that one,   acre costs 0.075,   Bitcoin. In other words, one Bitcoin would buy you   13.25   acres in, St. Croix, Wisconsin. How does that sit with you, Joe?  

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So I'm just super excited about the way Bitcoin is trending.   Not as excited about the way land prices are trending because anybody who wants to get into farming, it's become a barrier to entry that you cannot get over. So unless you've got, you know, some like in so many places in America, unless you've got family who's willing to get through it, you just can't get started.   If you were to give me money today and say, go buy an acre of land or buy some Bitcoin, I think I'm going after the Bitcoin. I think that's a far more potential upside opportunity.  

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Oh, I love hearing that. And, you know, from doing these legacy interviews, just today I was talking with a wonderful woman from Canada. She was, you know, in her nineties,   and she talked about how expensive land prices were when they were there. She was like, if you weren't in an area where the government was giving away land, the idea that you would be able to purchase it, and this would have been, you know, seventy years ago, was really difficult. And I think that's just the the  

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the state of play. But, so you're right. People can't get in on land, but they can get in on Bitcoin and the and the appreciation of that may make it so it's possible for you to buy land one day. Yeah, absolutely. So we live in a unique township where it's zoned agricultural. A minimum parcel size is 35 acres if you wanna buy a piece of land here. It's awesome because it does preserve agricultural practices in our township and our TARM board's been adamant about preserving that. But imagine if you're a new farmer looking to come into the area and establish yourself, you're buying a minimum of 35 acres in these chunks. Or if you want to build a house out here, you again, you gotta buy it in 35 acre chunks. So it's got, you know, it's good on one side, but bad on the other. If you're somebody starting out new, it's gonna be very difficult to get in.  

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Oh, man. I've never heard of that. And I have mixed feelings about it. I like the idea of being able to keep parcels together. And 35 acres sounds like a good chunk, but  

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what you want with your property. So I don't love that. So where are you at on Bitcoin, Joe? So I I love Bitcoin. I think it's an incredible asset. It has become a significant part of my retirement portfolio. I have a quick story for you. If you dial back the clock to around December, January '20 '4, if you remember back at that time, that was about when they were about to approve the Bitcoin ETFs.   And so at that time, being somewhat modestly interested in Bitcoin, I decided I was gonna buy the grayscale Bitcoin ETF because it was below net asset value, which means you're buying it at a discount. So I bought a bunch of that grayscale Bitcoin asset   at at it at the discount to NAV with the assumption that they were going to approve these ETFs.  

Primary broker knowing that Fidelity was gonna put together the the Fidelity Bitcoin ETF. The assumption was that I would hold on to that grayscale Bitcoin until the ETFs launch, watch the Bitcoin price appreciate,   swap out the grayscale for the   the Fidelity Bitcoin fund and then establish a pretty good strong position that I will continue to accumulate. And,   roll the dice on that gamble, won that gamble. It was awesome.   Now, sitting on a pretty good decent size of Bitcoin relative to my total portfolio value and will continue to grow that stack as much as I can inside my Roth IRA. And that's really the beauty that I wanted to share with you and your audience is that even if you don't buy Bitcoin directly, which which I do have, there are ways to put this inside Roth IRA retirement funds that you can watch that asset appreciate inside those vehicles as well. So that's been an awesome, awesome thing to have. Yeah. And I think there's talk right now of potentially making it so you might not have to pay capital gains on Bitcoin, but that doesn't exist now. But to be able to buy it with, like, a Roth IRA  

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to have already paid the taxes on that money and know that whatever appreciation you're getting, you're not gonna have to give away to the government.   I gotta say that is a pretty sweet gig,  

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if if you're if you're playing the overall bigger picture. Yeah. Yeah. Thrilled that I'd never have to pay taxes on that investment inside the Roth. That's a huge win.  

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Well, if you are interested in buying Bitcoin, the exchange that I use is river.com.   They've proven to be an excellent, exchange. You're able to do dollar cost averaging, just have it set up where it buys just a little bit of Bitcoin every day or every week or every month. And if you buy using the,   show code from from this podcast, you'll not only be buying on a great exchange, but you will be helping support the show. So I will include a link to, to our,   promo code, and you can use that when purchasing,   Bitcoin.  

Alright. Moving on to the Peter Thiel paradox. This is where I'm gonna ask Joe,  

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one thing that you believe that almost nobody in your ag tribe agrees with you on? Sure. So we're gonna go down the agronomy rabbit hole a bit, specifically in nitrogen management realm.   I have someone who's been using the Haney soil health test for the last three growing seasons,   intention of trying to answer the question is, can we do a better job of measuring and managing nitrogen in corn? So for those who aren't unaware   of it's really difficult to measure nitrogen, especially in season when growing a corn crop. A lot of guys are gonna put together a nitrogen program, let's say, in the middle of winter, stick with that program throughout the entire growing season, and call it good enough come harvest. I don't think that's a good way to grow crops. I think we can do better with tools at our disposal. So I've used the Haney soil health test to measure soil nitrogen levels prior to side dress nitrogen application. The one inflection point throughout the growing season where we can actually fine tune the dials. And when using this test, I've been able to help guys not exactly find their seat in the stadium, but I can get them to the stadium and help them find their section best best way I can describe it. There's no test on Earth that's going to help us dial in exactly how much nitrogen a corn crop needs because it's just too darn variable and it runs away from us all the time. However, the Haney soil health test has helped me really dial this in to the point where we're not excessively   or or ridiculously   under applying nitrogen. We can find a relative sweet spot there that I think can help save guys money as well as increase our productivity,   especially in extreme moisture or drought environments.  

So I have no frame of reference on this. Is this a controversial take? It is. Absolutely. There's many experts, especially in the university world, that will say the Haney soil health test is a bunch of garbage. And it's because they don't understand it. They've never actually used it in a way that we have, I have, in in trying to do a better job of dialing in citrus nitrogen rates. It's a function of their unawareness   of how powerful the tool actually is.  

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So tell me, what is the that they're missing about this? How do you do that test or what are you reading when you see that? Yeah, so I go out two weeks before sidedress nitrogen application, which allows as much as the season to elapse as possible,  

[00:30:10] Unknown:

dynamics takes place as possible as well. So we're trying to grab a very narrow snapshot window of time of what soil nitrogen status is based on how much moisture we have. Because moisture is what drives nitrogen loss in the system.   Much rain to fall or lack of rain to fall, we're doing the best job we can to capture in a moment in time what that soil nitrogen status is. We've had two awesome growing seasons here. '23 was dry, '24 was wet. So we have bookends to know what the maximum was in terms of nitrogen loss or gain. And so we're using this test at that inflection point in time right before Snyder's application   allows us then to have a nitrogen measurement that you can't get through other tests. They measure it traditionally. They measure it in a way that's not as well understood or accepted. And when you combine these different measures, it gives you insight that you can't get from any other type of test. And so that's what I've been able to stumble across. It almost sounds too good to be true. Perhaps it is. Time will tell. But in the meantime, I found this tool very useful in helping guys do a better job of managing their nitrogen on their corn crops.  



[00:31:10] Unknown:

Well, Joe, I'm gonna give you a first,   time,   Ag Tribes Report score of an NA. I have   absolutely no way of knowing if this is controversial or not, but I   applaud you finding a topic. And I'm sure within the next few days, I will hear back as to whether or not people think   you're you're, you're being crazy or or if this is a good thing to think about. I'll consider that a compliment, and I appreciate that. I you gotta take it because I don't know nearly enough about it. So alright. The, moving on to the last section, this is the worthy adversaries.  

[00:31:43] Unknown:

Who is one person that you respect but strongly disagree with? Great question. So I spent a lot of time today thinking about the answer to this question. And I really went through my memory bank to find if there was a single individual out there that I felt like,   I respect this person, but I just disagree. I couldn't find a single person. So I'm gonna give you a kind of a a more of a ho answer perhaps.   What I'm gonna say are the glyphosate   absolutists. And so let me explain that very briefly. I'm very active on the everything cover crops Facebook page. It's 71,000   cover crop enthusiasts that come together on Facebook and talk about cover crops. I love it. It's a great learning opportunity about everything cover crops, hence the name of the group. I recently put up a post on there offering some perspective about how much glyphosate gets applied to a square foot of cropland using normal rates. I just put that there for perspective.  

And what I saw was a whole bunch of absolutists come out of the word work on both sides of the glyphosate,   debate, whether it's good or bad. And so the the people who I really   disagree with but also respect are the ones who say glyphosate is poison and we're killing everything and everyone.   I have a very difficult relationship with glyphosate because as an agronomist, I realize it's the most effective grass killer on the planet,   the chemistry because I do believe that at high enough doses, it's probably causing negative effects in humans, in plants, obviously,   and in in soil microbiology. So again, it's it's a really difficult debate I have with this chemistry. I   I respect, but I disagree with the absolutists who say it's killing everything. Because as an agronomist, we need the tool. We need the tool until you come up with a better way to kill weeds that isn't so potentially destructive   to biology.  



[00:33:24] Unknown:

Well, I do think that it's a weak ass answer to not give a name, but I will say this. This is actually a much better Peter Thiel paradox to say, hey. I actually really love the guys that are that are,   the absolutist that hate it because they've got something to them. That that's I yeah. You gotta respect it. And, frankly, like,   I I think the extremes are probably where we're gonna discover some interesting answers. The the milk toast middle answer is probably not gonna get us anywhere closer to is this healthy or not. And having people be absolutist, but then putting your money where your mouth is and actually running tests. I get so sick of and, actually, I argue with Grok about, when I turn on conspiracy theory, and then I argue with it about glyphosate safety. It was actually quite in in interesting. Be very interested to anybody that's out there that has Croc to try this out   because,   even its answers are pretty weak. I think they could have better ones. And, and I think the only way you're gonna get better arguments against glyphosate that make you say, alright. Let's run-in the right kind of test. Let's do something different, is somebody that is fervently believes it and also understands either chemistry or microbiology   or other other areas around it.  



[00:34:35] Unknown:

Very well said.  

[00:34:36] Unknown:

Alright, Joe, that is gonna do it for our show. If people wanted to find out more about your agronomy and your, like your practices, where could they go to learn more about you?  

[00:34:47] Unknown:

I'm most active on Facebook, at IELTS Agronomy, A I L T S. I'm also somewhat active, less so active on X as well, under the same handle, IELTS Agronomy. Well,  

[00:34:58] Unknown:

thank you so much for, coming on and doing this. It was a last minute thing, but, man, I'm I'm we had a great conversation up in Wisconsin, and you did not disappoint today.   Thank you for sticking around to, listen to the Ag Tribes report. If you are thinking about getting a Father's Day gift for your father, I can tell you that a legacy interview   will be one of the most, profound experiences   of his life. There are a lot of dads that are either love to tell stories and would just love to have this opportunity. And there's a lot of dads out there that,   this will be kind of a stretch for them. It might be a little bit difficult for them to tell stories because they don't open up. But if you come to them and you say, dad, we got this for you for Father's Day, but, really, it's for the grandkids because they are gonna wanna know your stories. They're going and I'm going to want them to know who you are and were,   then please do a legacy interview. And I can't tell you how meaningful it is for these men when they leave this place. They always say the same thing. I had no idea it was gonna be like this. I loved getting a chance to reflect on my life. So if you're interested in purchasing a legacy interview for your father for Father's Day, go to legacyinterviews.com   and schedule a meeting with me. We'll sit down, we'll talk about what stories you wanna capture, what's most important,   what you're concerned about, and, we'll get you lined up with a great interview. Also, remember, if you're interested in buying Bitcoin, then we will put a link in the show notes that will get you set up with river.com.  

Alright. That's gonna do it for this week's show.   I,   wanna remind you that you should always feel free to disagree.