In this episode of The Joe Rooz Show, Joe hosts Christopher Baum, a leading expert in election technology and integrity. Christopher shares insights into VotRite's innovative voting systems, emphasizing their security, transparency, and efficiency. He addresses Joe's skepticism about electronic voting, explaining the rigorous certification processes and security measures in place to ensure election integrity. The conversation explores the challenges of traditional paper ballots and the potential of electronic systems to enhance voter confidence and streamline the voting process.
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Special thanks to:
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Executive Producer Rosanna Rankin
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(00:04:16) Introduction and Show Overview
(00:05:45) Discussion on Charlie Kirk Assassination
(00:10:18) Guest Introduction: Christopher H. Baum
(00:12:49) Challenges of Paper Ballots vs. Electronic Voting
(00:25:39) VoteRight's Technology and Security Features
(00:38:54) Implementation and Training for Electronic Voting Systems
(00:53:15) Public Trust and Election Security
(01:01:33) Closing Remarks and Future Discussions
- Wayne Rankin
- Rosanna Rankin
- Carolina Jimenez
[00:04:17]
Unknown:
Transmitting live from the asylum studios deep in the bowels of Southwest Texas. It's the Joe Ruge Show. The show where we talk about anything and everything, where nothing is sacred, nothing is watered down, and nothing is PC.
[00:04:38] Unknown:
Alright. Hey, folks. This is Joe Ruse. It is nineteen zero two hours on Friday, 09/12/2025. And it is great to be with you guys once again from the pimple on the backside of Texas, the beautiful city of Eagle Pass. And we're bringing the best quality talk radio we could muster without all the bluster. Welcome to the Joe Russo. And you know what, folks? I didn't do it. I need to, but it is Friday. Finally, finally, finally, frigging Friday. I don't think I've looked forward to a weekend more than I did this week. I'm excited about it. I have absolutely nothing planned to do, except just stuff around the house.
Clean, you know, good housewife stuff, which I don't have, which is a good thing. It's a great thing. It's a blessing. Trust me. But having said that, on a more serious note, so we had some developments today with, with the Charlie Kirk assassination. So we'll, address some of that, probably probably on Sunday's show, because I wanna get a little bit more of a grasp on exactly everything that's going on. But, what I will what I can say what I will say is that, I'm I'm very happy that they they have a suspect in custody. And, I'm very happy. I was very happy to hear about the charges that were being, being levied by the state, and, we're waiting to find out what the federal charges are going to be.
Very, very interesting situation. And, once again, as we've said on, on, Wednesday show, you know, of course, our our our prayers, our thoughts go to the Kirk family and those close to him. And, you know, we're gonna continue to pray for them as they go through this this particular period of time that they're dealing with. But, yeah, it's hard. It it's tough. You know? I don't I'd like I don't I've never met Charlie Kirk. I've been to one, TP USA, event. And, you know, when I heard when I when I found out what happened, and then I saw it, it it even again, even though I don't know him personally, it was like a gut punch. And if you if you saw the show Wednesday, you you you realize that, was not at my best game that day.
A lot of things other, you know, not just that situation, but a few other things were going on too, but just it was a it was a rough day, and, well, we're coming to the weekend. So we're gonna we're gonna relax, we're gonna do our thing, and we're gonna have a good time. Now, before we get into, into our guest who's patiently waiting for us in the waiting room, we're gonna have to do some housekeeping as we always do. So folks, if you would, please, head over to our website, joeroos.com. That's joeroos.com. Should be coming up on your screen momentarily when you get there. Don't forget to head over to the contact section, open up that little web form, and send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns that you have, any issues, any thoughts, or ideas that you have for a show, a topic, a guest that you'd like us to try to get, we always are interested in, in trying to meet those, those those needs and those requests. So please head over to the website, use the contact form, send it over to us, let us know what you're thinking. If you don't wanna use the web form, totally cool with me. That's why we have an email address. You can always email me directly at [email protected].
That's [email protected]. Also, if you would, while you're up on the website, look for the support button or the support page rather. And if you could help us out with a donation, we would really appreciate that. This is a value for value show. Alright? What does that mean? It just simply means that if if you are receiving anything of value from the content that we are putting out, we're asking that you return that value to us in the form of a donation. It could be your time, your talent, your treasure, one, two, or three, all of them. Doesn't make a difference. However, you have you can do it. As long as you have the means to do it, we appreciate that. And as always, we'll go through all the different tiers and ways you can help us out at the end of the show. Alright.
I think, get get to our sponsor here. So we have our sponsor, Ezra Healing. Now Ezra Healing is a substantial part of the new wellness paradigm currently being born in North America and around the globe. The global citizenry are no longer satisfied with the sick care version of so called health care. Band aid medicine, endlessly treating symptoms rather than root causes, must be abandoned, and it must be abandoned as soon as possible. Patient centric care must be the priority. We need to transition towards the do no harm model of private care that places humanity at the forefront of real health and wellness care. In this new model, your entire lifestyle is examined and analyzed to promote and support the totality of your body's integrated systems.
Ezra Healing is a solutions based health promotion and disease prevention, grassroots movement that is always evolving to best serve you and your family. For more information about Ezra Healing and all the programs that they offer, head over to ezrahealing.com. It should be up on your screen. Ezrahealing.com. And, when you get there, just let them know that you heard it right here on the Joe Russo. This way, they know that their money is being well spent. Alright. Well, with all of that said, tonight's guest is a leading voice in election technology and and integrity.
Christopher h Baum has over thirty years of experience delivering IT analysis for government and elections. He's advised states like New York, Arizona, and Delaware on election regulations. He's testified before congress to support the Help America Vote Act. At VoteRight, he serves as chief compliance officer, managing certification processes and election integrity. His 90 plus Gartner reports offer deep insights into voting system. Christopher's helped New York City's board of elections select next select next generation voting technology. He shares expertise on on shows like world, World Politics on PodTV and the Pete Santilli Show. Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Good to be here, Joe. It is great to have you here. I was I was actually really looking forward to, talking to you. And, when we were talking in the, preshow, I questioned my reason why I wanted to talk to you. No. I'm kidding. I'm just teasing you.
So,
[00:11:25] Unknown:
so, Hey. You know, we're both north, nor'easters. You know? You're from New York. I'm from Jersey. That's right. We you spent ten years in Texas so far. I spent ten years in Texas. Actually, I spent twelve years in Texas. You'll catch up. Sooner or
[00:11:41] Unknown:
later. And, oh, and by the way, I'm a proud UTEP graduate too, so go minors. Oh, nice. Very nice, very nice. So well I guess I I guess that might be the answer to the first question I was gonna ask you, maybe, I don't know, but I'll ask you anyway. What's something about you most people don't know, but should?
[00:11:59] Unknown:
Well, that's one of them. I, graduated with a, an arts degree in mathematics from the University of Texas in El Paso, which qualifies me to paint by number. Okay. So, that would be, one thing to know. I'm, So you know Picasso?
[00:12:20] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah. Okay.
[00:12:23] Unknown:
So, that would be one thing. Alright.
[00:12:26] Unknown:
What's your go to beverage to help you unwind at the end of the day?
[00:12:30] Unknown:
Mountain Dew.
[00:12:31] Unknown:
Wow. Another one of Mountain Dew. That's awesome. You know, you're the you're the third guest, or the fourth third or fourth guest that that that says Mountain Dew to that question. Everybody else is just water, like your quality. Yeah. You probably ought to check the demographics of not your listeners, but your guests. Yeah. I probably should. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Christopher, you you spent over thirty years shaping election technology, from advising states to test testifying before Congress. What would you call it a passion? I don't know. But what sparked your passion for improving voting systems and ensuring election integrity?
[00:13:07] Unknown:
Accident. Basically, what happened was, in the mid to late nineties, I was, helping governments around the world prepare for y two k, and, noticed that a lot of voting systems were gonna be a problem. Mhmm. So, you may have read about this in history or your grandparents might have told you about it. But back in, the year February, there was an issue with elections, with whole hanging chad things, you know, from Mhmm. Broward County. I have one of those voting stations in my basement.
[00:13:45] Unknown:
Really? Yeah. Okay.
[00:13:49] Unknown:
So, yeah. And, since I had been saying, look. We we gotta take a look at that what's going on here. Suddenly, that became my life for the next twenty five years. Wow. And I like to think that I've been I've made a positive, impact on it. And, I know that there are parts of it that you and I disagree on, and I'm sure that they'll be coming up all in the next thirty to forty five seconds.
[00:14:18] Unknown:
No. Not yet.
[00:14:19] Unknown:
Okay. But, yeah, I I think that, what I have been, dedicating myself to and what VoteRight, who recruited me, is dedicating themselves to is making sure that accurate that elections are accurate, transparent, and fair. Mhmm. That every vote gets counted gets counted exactly one time, and reported appropriately.
[00:14:46] Unknown:
Alright. Well, just gonna back up a little bit here. I'm not as young as you think I am. So I I I've been around, I I I remember that election very very very clearly. As a matter of fact, my the first the first chance the first opportunity I had to vote was for, Ronald Reagan for his second term. So, so yeah. So I've been around. I've I've seen a few of these things, and I I I do recall several of these, these issues with voting systems, and and so again, so obviously it's not thirty seconds or forty five seconds, we're gonna get into it now though. I'm not a big fan of electronic voting systems, because I I I don't trust them. After what happened with the twenty sixteen, twenty twenty elections, and, even the attempt on the twenty twenty four elections, I I kinda repositioned myself to to be more in favor of going back to the old ways of doing things, and just doing it with a paper ballot, photo ID, drop it in the ballot box at at a location.
No more of these voting seasons, and, you know, just one day you vote, you're done. That's it.
[00:16:02] Unknown:
Okay. So let's let's examine that a little bit. Sure. In a few different ways. Now you're out there in, Maverick County. Right? That's correct. Okay. So, there were 15,745 ballots, cast in the presidential election in 2024.
[00:16:25] Unknown:
Mhmm. You wanna count them by hand. Right? Well, it it it would be, I think, the the best way to do it.
[00:16:33] Unknown:
Okay. So let let's go down that. So the way that you do you, you were living there then. Mhmm. Do you remember the ballot? Mhmm.
[00:16:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Very much.
[00:16:47] Unknown:
How many races were on the ballot?
[00:16:50] Unknown:
There were you had the presidential, then you had two you had the the senate. You had a couple locals on there as well. So I wanna say maybe
[00:17:00] Unknown:
maybe eight. 17.
[00:17:03] Unknown:
Oh, okay.
[00:17:05] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:17:06] Unknown:
So that's how well you count. Yes. Yeah. As you can tell. Well, my memory's not that great. You know? I do I Okay. I liken my memory to Swiss cheese.
[00:17:14] Unknown:
Alright. Alright. So 17. Okay. Now, out in Mohave County, in Arizona, they did a test on a similar size ballot and how long it takes to count a ballot. Okay. And now the method that they use is the most widely, accepted method, which is called read and mark. And basically, what you do is you got four people. Okay? You got somebody who reads the ballot. Mhmm. Two people who have preprinted sheets that mark the ballot, and then they have an observer, and the observer makes sure that the person is reading that accurately and the tallyers are tallying it accurately. So four people. Okay?
Ballot that size, about three minutes per ballot. Does that seem reasonable to you? Yeah. Okay. So we're talking about twenty minutes of ballot if you go nonstop and nobody makes any mistakes. Right? K. So four people, 20 ballots an hour. You're talking about to count Maverick County's ballots, seven hundred eighty seven and a quarter hours.
[00:18:28] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:18:29] Unknown:
K. Just to count that county's balance. Now I'm assuming that, you know, when you you total all that out, by the way, totaling all out is, 3,149 person hours because you need four people for each one of those hours. Right? Right. At federal minimum wage, minimum wage in Texas too, of $732.25
[00:18:56] Unknown:
an hour. It was good. If that was minimum wage, then I'm in the wrong job. Yeah. So
[00:19:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Exactly. So at $7.25 an hour Mhmm. Just counting the ballots is almost $23,000. Okay. Okay. So that's the count. That's not preparing the ballots. That's not authorizing the ballots. That's not feeding the people, providing tables, providing lighting. That's just the time to count the ballots. Okay? Okay. I'm following. Alright. Alright. So now we spent $22,000 for that team of four, and it takes them seven hundred and eighty seven hours. Now how many days is that? Seven hundred and eighty seven hours? How many days? Yeah. I'll get my calculator up. Okay. You get no. I'm sure you have it. No. No. I I I want you to do this for me. Okay. We we got an hour to kill, Joe.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
Well, we have forty five minutes to kill. Okay. I'm I'm playing with you. So what what did we say it was?
[00:20:07] Unknown:
Seven hundred eighty seven and one quarter hours. We'll round it to seven eighty seven, you know, be conservative.
[00:20:15] Unknown:
Alright. So thirty two point eight.
[00:20:19] Unknown:
Okay. So we're talking over a month of people working twenty four hours a day to count ballots, assuming that we use the same four people.
[00:20:31] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:20:32] Unknown:
Alright. So we're probably not gonna use the same four people for a month straight. Right? Because they need to, like, sleep and eat and Really? Stuff like that. Yeah. You remember those days. Right? I kinda used to be get to sleep. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Okay. So in order to meet the requirements of publishing the dates, you need to have more people.
[00:20:57] Unknown:
Right.
[00:20:58] Unknown:
Alright? And now are you talking about having them working, eight hour days, sixteen hour days? If you have sixteen hour days, you have to have two shifts of people.
[00:21:11] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
So it starts getting real expensive real fast. Now I'd like you to do something for me, Joe. Sure. Starting by starting from one count by threes.
[00:21:21] Unknown:
Starting from one count by threes? Yeah. I can't do that in my head. I'm too tired today.
[00:21:28] Unknown:
Alright. So so far, in the amount of time that we've been together, you failed to count accurately twice. Okay. Yeah. But I told you, it's been a long day. Okay. Well, now I understand that. So people are really bad at counting.
[00:21:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I see your point.
[00:21:48] Unknown:
We are so bad at counting that, you ask for contributions. Right? Yes. You know, pe pe people to to contribute. Mhmm. How much of that comes in cash?
[00:22:01] Unknown:
None of it. It It all comes through electronic. Electronic. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:22:07] Unknown:
So, this is how bad things are with people counting. You go to a you go to your bank. Right? Yes, sir. You cash a check. $200, $20 bills. You find out that one of those twenties is counterfeit. At what point do you no longer have recourse against your bank?
[00:22:41] Unknown:
I would imagine the moment you walk out the door.
[00:22:44] Unknown:
No. The moment you step away from the counter. Oh, okay. So that's how bad we are with paper, that even the banks don't take responsibility for their own paper.
[00:22:56] Unknown:
Interesting. I didn't I I I was not aware of that. That's Okay. Yeah. So,
[00:23:02] Unknown:
we're bad at counting. We're bad at paper. You can't see my fingers here. But see and we're we're and we're bad at putting fingers in front of camera except the one, and I'm not gonna do that because that would be rude. So as a society, we're really bad at this. Now some countries do actually vote on paper. Mhmm. Canada. Alright? When Canada elects their government, guess how many races are on the ballot?
[00:23:37] Unknown:
I wouldn't know. One. Oh, okay.
[00:23:42] Unknown:
So they only have to count one thing.
[00:23:44] Unknown:
Okay. I see where you're going. Alright. Alright.
[00:23:47] Unknown:
Now let's talk about where you live in, in Eagle Pass there. Mhmm. Okay? So mayor for council people. Right? Correct. And when is the mayoral election?
[00:24:02] Unknown:
Just passed. So it was this past November. Actually, it was this past May. No. It wasn't November. No. That we had a runoff. We did have the runoff.
[00:24:12] Unknown:
Your mayoral elections are
[00:24:15] Unknown:
in May of odd number of years. Okay. Well, you know more about it than I do. I don't pay attention to it. Right.
[00:24:22] Unknown:
So why do you think that is? Why is it in odd number years? And why is it in May instead of November?
[00:24:31] Unknown:
Beats May.
[00:24:33] Unknown:
Because they don't want people to come out for the vote. If you wanted to have the greatest turnout in the mayoral election, when would it be?
[00:24:45] Unknown:
It would be in the fall. On election day. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:49] Unknown:
It's not.
[00:24:51] Unknown:
That's I I you know what? I I you just blew me away with that one. I guess that would explain why the voter turnout here is so bad.
[00:25:06] Unknown:
And what you think the solution is is to re further restrict voter participation.
[00:25:12] Unknown:
But I don't I don't think I don't I don't see putting a paper ballot in as, as restricting a voter. I I just I think it just to me, it just makes more sense and more it's a greater sense of accountability, I think. I don't trust the electronic systems, you know. I'm not saying that they couldn't work, and we didn't really get into what VoteRight does and, the the direct recording electronic technology that you guys use and all that stuff. You know, we kinda jumped into question 12 from question four. So, you know, we didn't really get set the stage. Can't count. You're right. Exactly. So we because we I we we get a chance to set the stage here. So, so I'm sure that there are benefits to it. I'm not saying that there aren't, but I I just think that paper ballots were more secure, and they've been as they had been in the past. I'm not saying you can't fudge paper ballots. I'm absolutely good. We're that's why voting systems were invented because we're really good
[00:26:10] Unknown:
at fudging paper ballots. Mhmm. Now let's let's talk about that. Well, do do you wanna go back to questions five through eleven first? Yes. Let's do that. Let's do that. Let's set the stage here. So so,
[00:26:23] Unknown:
Vote Right. So, like I mentioned, direct recording, electronic technology, and, voter verified paper audit trails.
[00:26:31] Unknown:
Explain those to us, please. Okay. Basically, on the we we've got a few systems, but the the, one that most people will be using is the Titan system, which is a, it's a computer like a an ATM kiosk. Right? Mhmm. You go up to it. It is unlocked electronically by the poll worker. The poll worker then steps away, so the voter has privacy. Right. Makes their selection. Now here's the thing. They can make their selection in any one of the approved languages in that district. If they can't read it, you know, because of screen dynamics, they can increase the contrast, change the colors, all under the voters control, or they can listen to it, and it will play for them, and they can adjust the speed.
Do you ever listen to audiobooks? No. Okay. Me either. But people that do often play them at faster than normal speed because you can hear faster, than it than you can speak. Mhmm. Alright. Sounds weird, but you can change the pitch and stuff like that. Yeah. That I'm aware of that. Yeah. Right. So you can, listen to the ballot. You can read the ballot. When you make your selections and you're ready to cast, it prints out a paper receipt. And it says, is this what you're you're voting? And if you'd no, then you said no, and it writes void at the bottom of it. And you vote again, and you print out another receipt.
When you agree with it, only at that point does it cast. And at that point, that paper is a valid receipt. Now with our system, it casts it three different ways in three different technologies that are tied together by a random number. So it doesn't identify the voter, but all three of the stored versions are tied together. So I cannot only do an audit within each one of the technologies, I can do them across the technologies. I can see where the PDF lines up with the recorded electronic vote, which ties back to the paper. I can see that all of those are equal.
[00:28:53] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:28:54] Unknown:
Now when I wanna do an audit, I do it on all three separate systems, and I do a statistically valid audit. So I I audit the PDFs. I I can audit the electronic results. I can audit the paper ballots, and they should all be within the degree of of freedom for that particular audit. If you're gonna do a 100% audit, they should all agree.
[00:29:18] Unknown:
Okay. That makes sense.
[00:29:20] Unknown:
Alright. So the way that you know that the system is secure, it won't start without the electronic key. The electronic key contains the ballot. It is encrypted and randomized, so it ties to that particular machine, but you can't duplicate it. The machine the results are right once. If you try to overwrite it, it keeps a copy of what was written before.
[00:29:49] Unknown:
Alright. You're making the you're making a good sales pitch here. You might be changing Okay. Now, so how do I know that the machine hasn't been tampered with? Well,
[00:29:57] Unknown:
there's something called the gold copy of the software. Right? That's locked up. It is not on the system itself. So at any time, at a judge's order, you can compare the software that's on the gold standard to the software in the machine.
[00:30:16] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:30:17] Unknown:
And see if there is a one to one. So I can check it before an election. I can check it during election if the judge orders me to. You can audit it after the election. So you auto so you audit random systems in a statistically valid way. I don't know which systems are gonna be audited because they're drawn by lot.
[00:30:45] Unknown:
Alright.
[00:30:47] Unknown:
So I can check the software before. I can check the software during if necessary, and I can check the software after. Now you were telling me, before we came on that you had a situation with your prior, platform where you got dropped off. Right? Correct. Yeah. Okay. So what happens if the power goes out in the voting system? Voting system has a a two hour battery backup built in, and you can plug into a external, supply if necessary so people can continue to vote if the power goes out. Or how about this? You're talking about coming, you know, in person to vote. Mhmm. Let's say that that's the rule. There's somebody who doesn't have access.
They wanna go to the voting system. Alright? Right. With our system, you can put it on a table, roll it out, maintaining chain of custody to the vehicle, check the voter however your jurisdiction says to check the voter Right. And they can vote from their vehicle, and then it goes protecting the chain of custody back inside for the next voter. That's an option. It doesn't have to be implemented. Again, that's up to the jurisdiction. The point is is that we, as a company, don't make that decision for you. We give you the options, and then we help you enforce the legal options that are selected.
Alright. Well, that
[00:32:25] Unknown:
I'm I'm I'm really impressed. I'll be I'll be honest with you. I think that that that sounds great. It sounds great. Has it's been has this been run yet? Has this been tested? Has it has it been in use yet? We have tested it in private elections, not public elections yet. Okay. And and and what was the results of those?
[00:32:46] Unknown:
People keep using it for
[00:32:48] Unknown:
private elections. Alright. Okay.
[00:32:52] Unknown:
Let me see. We are working on a new technology, and this is a little bit, you know, I'm going out a little bit on a limb here. Secure voting from your phone.
[00:33:05] Unknown:
I don't know about I don't know how I feel about that one.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
That's okay. We're not there yet, but, you know, how often do you give your phone to somebody else?
[00:33:16] Unknown:
Not often. Yeah.
[00:33:20] Unknown:
I'm gonna guess that it's less often than you give your car keys to somebody else.
[00:33:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Probably so. Probably so. Probably so.
[00:33:35] Unknown:
But I don't really need it. And your car doesn't have facial recognition on it? No.
[00:33:41] Unknown:
No. That would be good though.
[00:33:44] Unknown:
Yeah. It depends on how I'm looking that day.
[00:33:50] Unknown:
So, so alright. So, like, the main the the important things here are chain of custody is maintained.
[00:33:58] Unknown:
Right. You have the Voter intent vote integrity is maintained.
[00:34:03] Unknown:
Voter integrity is maintained? Audibility
[00:34:05] Unknown:
is maintained. Alright.
[00:34:07] Unknown:
Alright. You already covered the so you you jumped ahead so much. We already covered how vote rights technology compares to traditional paper ballots. Alright. Now the certification process. Yeah. Can you walk us through that whole process of how you manage the certification process, and how do we really ensure that the electronic systems meet strict security standards?
[00:34:36] Unknown:
Okay. This is an area that's in flux right now. Okay. Because of executive orders coming from the White House right now. But, until this point in time, there was a commission, the election assistance commission that was, mandated by congress, came up with voting system standards that are voluntary. It is up to the state by constitutional law to determine how elections are run-in each state.
[00:35:11] Unknown:
Right.
[00:35:12] Unknown:
So some states adopted, formally, the voluntary standards from the EAC. Some, like my own home state of New Jersey, did it informally. It was never enacted by the state legislator, but the office, of election said, first step is you gotta get federal certification.
[00:35:37] Unknown:
Alright.
[00:35:39] Unknown:
And that certification, there are two labs that are certified testers, and they have a whole lot of stuff that they have to meet in terms of durability and accessibility and security, in order to get verified. And then once again, there's a gold copy of the software that's installed on the system, and that is the only software that's installed on the system. And it can be compared against the system at any point. And, I did leave out a very important part about the Boatwright systems. Our systems aren't networked. They aren't tied together to anything. They're all completely it's called air gapping. Okay. So there's no way to remotely hack our system because it's not connected to anything.
[00:36:27] Unknown:
Which was a problem. Have the elect yep. Which was a problem in the past. Yeah. Because they they because there were all these systems, even though they weren't supposed to be connected together networked, like, they were, and they were easily accessible. I I thought I remember somebody, what's the guy's name, actually hacked into a voting machine, as a demonstration.
[00:36:48] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. But he had physical access to it. So there, there were a couple of cases like that, but they're all based on having physical access to the system. Okay. I see. So, you know, and with our system, you can't do them all at the same time. You have to have individual access to them. And you know what you see about security and software updates and all that kind of stuff that you have to go on your laptop? Mhmm. That doesn't happen with our voting system because they are networked and it's a golden system. It can't be cyber attacked because there isn't any cyber aspect to it.
If I don't have physical access to it, I can't connect to it unless I get there, start it up. I've got the properly, encrypted electronic key to start it. And then even then, it would fail an audit. So Alright. It's not you know, when you think hear about ATMs being hacked, you don't hear about them actually being hacked. You hear one of two things. Somebody's scamming them, so they're using the a t the the ATM as an entry point, and they put a film over the key, and they're, like, recording your key presses, or they have a camera. So they're they're scanning it or scanning it as you're putting your card in, or they're ripping them out of the wall and taking the money.
[00:38:18] Unknown:
Right. Which I don't think it happens as as frequently as probably the the electronic version of that. It's, you know, putting the putting the films over the keypads. I've seen Right. We've all seen videos, you know, on Sure. On YouTube and and all that stuff of stores coming across that on their, on their keypads, you know, for snap benefits and all that stuff, credit card readers. So, yeah, I think that's a little bit more, I think it's easier to do that than it is to rip one out of the wall. Oh, yeah. But,
[00:38:48] Unknown:
Quieter too.
[00:38:49] Unknown:
Much much, especially if you're living in in a city, you know, you know, you get too much attention. So in switching over from a paper ballot system to to a vote right system, how quickly how long would it take to implement these things and and and and see the benefit and the trust, efficiency, and voter confidence? Efficiency, and
[00:39:11] Unknown:
voter confidence? Well, it turns out that the training for an electronic system and the training for a paper ballot system, in terms of the poll workers is equivalent. K? It's it's about the same time. People don't understand how bad we are at handling paper.
[00:39:27] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:39:28] Unknown:
And in order to have paper that's verifiable, you need to have certain processes in place, and you need to, drill in and build muscle memory. So you can't take people a a group of people, give them a half an hour course, and say, alright. This is how we're gonna handle the paper ballots. That doesn't happen. Right. So it takes an equivalent amount of time to teach the poll workers how to use it and the public how to use it. It also takes an equivalent amount of time to teach voters how to handle paper versus how to handle electronic voting systems.
And, again, we're not great at either of those. In New Jersey, in in my county, Burlington County, there was a problem in the presidential elections in the primaries where there was a setting in the voting system that disenfranchised people. In New Jersey, as similar to the system that's used there in Eagle Pass, what happens is it's printed on a piece of paper, on two sides, and then you have to grab the piece of paper, and you take it over to a ballot scanner, and you place it into the scanner. Mhmm. Right?
[00:40:45] Unknown:
Here, no. When I when I voted last, to the mayor, it was you filled out the the little bubble form, and you took it over to the box. You just dropped it in the box. Right. Okay.
[00:40:55] Unknown:
And they scanned it on the other side. Right. Well, what the system that you so you in New Jersey, you actually have the paper ballot that's printed for you, and you hand carry it over to the scanner. What happened was they decided to set it up so the back half of the ballot was printed first, then it gets fed automatically back into the printer and the front part of the ballot prints. But in the New Jersey primary, there was only one side. So if the voter wasn't, properly educated, they would grab it when it comes out the first time in the which was the blank second page, and the first page never printed. So now I've got a blank piece of paper.
[00:41:38] Unknown:
Right. I get you.
[00:41:42] Unknown:
So unless I wanna go through the process of reprinting and getting my, poll worker over to the printer to help me reprint it and then waiting for it to print again and making sure that the first page is properly destroyed. Basically, my vote doesn't count because it isn't counted until the paper is fed into the scanner. Okay? Actually yeah. I I I see that. Yeah. So it's actually easier to train on our systems because you don't have to do anything other than collect the paper and it goes into the ballot box. It doesn't get scanned there. The votes are already recorded.
[00:42:20] Unknown:
Alright. That's you know what? I I came into this thinking that I'm pretty solid on my paper ballot. But as you're explaining this to me, I I could see how this would work, and, I'm not gonna say I'm completely sold on it, but It's okay. I just want an open mind. Yeah. Well, yeah. Of course. Absolutely. I I I don't know. I I don't know. But we'll see. We'll see. Let's let's continue on here. Okay. Let's see. We already asked about that. How does VoteRight's use of individual databases and no hackable downloads address issues of, slow counting potential errors? We already covered that.
[00:43:10] Unknown:
Got that. Actually, let let's talk about the count, because that that's kind of interesting. Okay. In a bigger metropolis, if you're, like, in Houston or, you know, Dallas or someplace like that, where you've got voting centers that are widely distributed, what you get from VoteRight is a secure electronic module that has to be transported to the vote site, but you also get a tally from each individual voting system at the end of the day. So depending on the rules for the jurisdiction, that, electronic key that has all of the results on it goes into a locked bag. It's taped with, secure tape that's numbered.
The number is, written, goes in the bag. And so chain of custody all the way through, transported to the site, unsealed, signed, put into the tabulator. That's the official results. So as fast as they can transport it and read it into the tabulator, the results are ready. If a key is missing, the system will tell you, hey. One of them hasn't been tabulated. It was assigned to this voting system at this jurisdiction. Somebody tries to put a key twice, it'll say, this has already been tabulated. Remove it. K. So you don't get the Jurassic Park issue. Mhmm. Remember the the first Jurassic Park issue and why there were so many velociraptors?
[00:44:54] Unknown:
Right.
[00:44:55] Unknown:
K. They stopped counting when they hit the expected number. Mhmm. They didn't realize that there was a whole bunch more than the expected number. Yeah. They didn't realize they were reproducing. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta check both sides of that equation. Did I did anything get read twice, and did I get everything that was expected? Both of those are alert situations. Now for the informal results, yeah, you take a picture of the results from each machine, and you send it off. Alright? Those don't have to have a clean, chain of custody because they're, unofficial results.
So people wanna see the numbers as fast as possible. What we're not doing is waiting seven hundred and eighty seven person hours to get the results, which is what it would have taken if we hand counted the presidential ballots there in Eagle Pass. Mhmm.
[00:45:58] Unknown:
Let me see. I wanna screen share something. As I I'm looking at your website or or vote rights website, and, talking about encryption authentication and such really Yeah. Really because I'm I'm listening to you as you as you're speaking, but I'm reading this at the same time. This is this is really interesting to me. Let's see if I can get that up there. Here we go.
[00:46:22] Unknown:
Now it's important to realize that any encryption can be broken given enough power and enough time. What we're saying is is that our system is more than secure enough to make sure that results are valid are valid and verifiable.
[00:46:44] Unknown:
So we have let's see. So, VoteRight has developed a system with the following features, authentication, two level password based user authentication, Password is managed and maintained only by administrator owner of the solution and is stored in a dual key encrypted form. Right. Input method of ID and PWD is restricted via in app keys, PIN pad POS based, which eliminates any kind of SQL injection, threat in authentication process. Okay. So I I kind of understand what that is. Can you explain that in layman's terms so people can understand that a little bit better?
[00:47:21] Unknown:
Sure. Okay. So basically what we're saying is, at any point, two people have to authorize access to the machine. Right? They've gotta have two authorized users even at the poll site. So at the poll site, the administrator has to unlock the machine, print the report saying, hey. This is how many ballots were voted on it. And assuming that we're going with a single election day in your case, that number should be zero.
[00:47:55] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:47:57] Unknown:
Alright? And then there'll be, an end report at the end of the day saying, this many ballots were cast on this machine, and the winners of each election were this by this many votes. But it takes two people to, turn the system on and get that in the morning. They have their secure electronic keys, that also contain the ballot for that system or the ballots appropriate for that system. There might be more than one ballot on a system, and it's up to the poll worker to say, alright. You're from this jurisdiction. This is your ballot, and then the voter has to agree to that.
Because you might have, like, two congressional districts or two school board districts going to the same physical location. I see. Alright.
[00:48:46] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:48:48] Unknown:
Let's see. For each k. Time that somebody votes, the poll worker has to unlock it. So the poll worker is verifying that, yes, this already pre verified voter has been presented to me. I am unlocking it for the appropriate ballot for that voter, and then the voter agrees and votes. At the end of the day, when everything is shut down, the poll worker and the admin both have to put in this the secure key and then get the results from it. The electronic key is then, you know, sealed securely, typically locked in the bag. All of that depends on the jurisdiction, how they wanna maintain the chain of custody Right. And securely transferred to the, ballot management site where they do the final counting.
[00:49:44] Unknown:
Would this would this image here kind of explain what you're talking about? Or is this
[00:49:50] Unknown:
something other than Kind of. I mean, this is sort of, like, alright. We we encrypted every step of the way, and you've gotta have two keys to undo it. And that's what I was telling you about. At no point is one person responsible except when the actual voting takes place, that is one person voting privately. Every other step requires at least two people.
[00:50:20] Unknown:
Alright. So this is this is really interesting information. I gotta I gotta spend more time reading this.
[00:50:29] Unknown:
Boy. It's your show, man. No. I know.
[00:50:32] Unknown:
I I hear you, brother. I hear you. This is this well, I see. I'm I'm I'm kind of familiar with with reading these types of logs, and I've I've seen this stuff before, and I've I've played around with these things. So I I I can follow along for the most part.
[00:50:52] Unknown:
But the point is is that the encryption that we use is, d d d e s. So, yeah, given enough time and enough power, you can break it. You're not gonna break it on election night. You're not gonna make break it beforehand. And even if you break it on the machine beforehand, it still wouldn't pass the audit process.
[00:51:10] Unknown:
Gotcha. I gotcha. Let's see. So all of this information is available. I'm not showing anything super secret or anything like that. This stuff is all available on the Vote Right website, so folks can go there and check it out themselves if they're skeptical, like I like I am. It's it's important though. I mean, I think elections are important. We need we need to make sure that they're secure. That's the whole fundamental that's the whole foundation of our republic is is our free free and fair open elections. And look, you know, if if if VoteRight is the solution for this, then then the technology behind it is a solution for this. And look, you know, I I'll I can support that, you know, and I and I I wouldn't have an issue with it.
I like again, my concern is, you know, the the loss of data, the loss of information, or the hackability of of the systems. And, you know, and from what I'm looking at here, this looks like a pretty secure system. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say it's not. So I'm I'm really impressed with this, and, you know, I and I gotta commend you, of course, for for doing your homework prior to the coming on the show with with the information that you brought. And that's great, you know. You did catch me flat footed. I'll I will be the first to admit that. Totally. Absolutely.
[00:52:25] Unknown:
But, But but but that's exactly the point. I mean, you're absolutely right. This is important stuff, and we need to take it seriously. Yeah. We need to do our homework as as voters and citizens. Absolutely. Yep. And we need to ask intelligent questions, and and we deserve intelligent answers.
[00:52:45] Unknown:
I agree.
[00:52:47] Unknown:
There are times when it is absolutely appropriate to do a hand count, And that's the best way to do an audit. One of the aspects of an audit has to be a hand count. But you need to know what the rules about that are and how to make it statistically valid, and all of that needs to be spelled out in the rules of the election. So everybody can ask questions ahead of time.
[00:53:16] Unknown:
Now for, just just, you know, for communities that that are looking for secure, accessible, cost effective elections, how do you help them weigh the trade offs between using the paper ballots and adopting vote rights technology, especially when public trust in elections is really low?
[00:53:33] Unknown:
Well, again, what we take a look at is no. We show them really what it costs to run an election, and it's more than the cost of just counting because you've got to have sufficient ballots printed. Mhmm. Alright? Sufficient ballots distributed. Yeah. My system uses regular register tape.
[00:53:55] Unknown:
Really?
[00:53:56] Unknown:
Yeah. Don't have to have preprinted ballots. Okay? They're in the machine. Mhmm. So the paper handling that you're doing is paper rolls, not, you know, 11 by 17 inch preprinted ballots. I gotcha. And the machines are easily portable, typically carried by one healthy person. So if there's a an issue with the system, it's very easy to have strategically placed replacement systems that can be brought securely transported, set up, and voting goes on, where you get a larger turnout at one, one venue than was expected. If it's within the rules of the jurisdiction, extra voting systems can be securely added to that location and and tracked. Mhmm.
And we already talked about it. If there's a problem with power, Voci can go on. It has the batteries. We can run them we can run them for sixteen hour days without electricity. Wow.
[00:55:06] Unknown:
Yeah. I I you know, I I I'm gonna tell you honestly, I came in here totally skeptical of the whole thing, and, you're you you you made some excellent points here, and I'm I'm gonna tell you honestly that I'm I'm gonna rethink all of this. And, you know, we'll come back to this again at some point. I'll I'll get you on, and I'll and I'll
[00:55:23] Unknown:
give you my, come to Jesus moment with it. But That would be my pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Well you know in the last seven minutes you wanna, so are you Cowboys or Jets?
[00:55:32] Unknown:
I am a Jets fan.
[00:55:33] Unknown:
Okay,
[00:55:34] Unknown:
so because you know I mean I'm here, I mean the Jets will always be my my team, you know, but I do, so I break it down like this, I have an AFC team and I have an NFC team. My NFC team is they're the Cowboys. My AFC team is the the Jets, and that's how I keep peace. But I'll always be a Jets fan. Well, you know,
[00:55:54] Unknown:
grown ups outside of Philly, you have two favorite teams. It's the Eagles and whoever the Cowboys are playing that week. There you go. Last week, it was just one team. Yes. I agree with you on that one. That was that was a problem. I'm looking forward to the Super Bowl rematch this Sunday. Assuming that none of the Eagles spit on anybody, it's gonna be a really good game.
[00:56:15] Unknown:
We shall see. We shall see. So, so out of out of everything that we've talked about tonight, what what it what is the one thing that you hope the audience takes away from the entire conversation?
[00:56:27] Unknown:
Honestly, it's this. People can't count.
[00:56:29] Unknown:
Mhmm. As proved?
[00:56:31] Unknown:
Yeah. And you need to realize that, you know. Next time you pay for something in cash, listen to how they give you change. Mhmm. Okay? The money's probably you know, the the actual change coins probably come a machine. They're they're probably not counted out by hand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:56:52] Unknown:
That's very that's very, very, very, very good point. Excellent point. They don't actually count it out. Like, the cash, the actual dollar bills well, actually, you know what? I I've been to a place where the actually, the the the paper currency doesn't even get touched by the cashier. It comes out of the out of the machine. I've seen
[00:57:11] Unknown:
that. And and how much do we trust our paper currency that is designed, you know, to not be counterfeit? How many places do you go where they won't take 50 or a $100 bills? Oh, plenty.
[00:57:23] Unknown:
Yeah. Especially the bodegas in the little corner places, you know? Yeah. You know, yeah. No. It's it's you're right. I I I cannot I cannot dispute that at all, you know, and and I know that from my experiences, in in my previous line of work, you know, we were trained to look for those things, look for the counterfeits, not just in in currency and coin, but also in other items as well. Right. And, so, yeah. It it's it it it's an unfortunate reality that we have to deal with. Yeah. It it is. So is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanna talk about? No. No. I listen. I really appreciate the the time to speak with you, Joe. This is going by real quickly for me. I I hope it wasn't too, too much for you. I I I'm gonna be honest with you. I like I said before, I came in I came into the conversation completely skeptical of this.
You know, I read them I read through the website, I read through the information that I had on hand, and, I I was I was skeptical about it. But, you know, the way you presented the information to me, you know, it it, I'm not gonna say I've I've had my my my my born again moment here with this, but, you know, you definitely planted a seed that I'm gonna have I'm gonna really look at this a little more carefully, and, spend some more time I appreciate that. In researching it. Because if if if it if it's as simple as you make it sound, I I know the technology is not simple. Don't don't misunderstand what you're saying.
But if if it's as simple as you make it sound, then then this is something that that can really, really pretty much guarantee to folks that or or at least help them to trust the the process of the election now a little bit more, take it take a little more seriously. And Absolutely. And I think that's fantastic. And, you know, that's what we need. You know, unfortunately, election gets stolen. They get stolen quite a bit. And I'm sure there were elections stolen all the way back through our our history as a country. I am sure of it. Next time I come out, I'll talk to you talk to you about a famous one in Texas. Okay. Yeah. That would be great. I'd see, I don't I I have to get better on my Texas history. You know? I'm I'm from New York. Talk to you about a famous one in New York. Yeah. Well, we could do that too. You see, I I love I love American history. I might and I just actually, I just did a series. I I teach bible studies on on Sunday, on my Sunday show.
And, I I I just finished a series on America's Christian heritage, and I went through all that stuff. And I and the what I did, which is a lot different than than a lot of other folks do, is I went actually back to historical records at that time. So historians that wrote about what they what they heard and knew about at the time. There was no political spin to it. There was no no no hidden agenda behind it. They just relayed the facts as they were available. And, you know, it opened up it opens up your whole perspective on it. Now, long story short is I love American history, and I love coming from New York and and New Jersey, you know, pivotal states during the American revolutionary period.
I love the history behind that stuff. So I know more about his you know, American history from New York and and New Jersey and, you know, the surrounding area than I do about Texas. And, Yeah. But Texas wasn't part of it then. No. It wasn't. But but Texas has a a a a rich history. And Absolutely. And, there were some great, great men that came out of Texas. Sam Houston, obviously. I mean, you know, the, the Alamo. All of that all that stuff is amazing. Amazing history, incredibly brave men that that stood for independence here in Texas. And I think it's gonna go that way again at some point. I think Texas is actually gonna officially separate from the union at some point. The the the momentum well, the momentum is there, public opinion on it is pretty high. The last the last thing I heard as a, like, an unofficial polling was done. It was like 60% of people polled are in favor of Texas leaving the union.
And,
[01:01:34] Unknown:
you know That does require another war.
[01:01:37] Unknown:
Yeah. You hope not. You you do you hope not.
[01:01:41] Unknown:
But there isn't any mechanism for it.
[01:01:43] Unknown:
Yeah, there is actually. It's it's through legislative process. I'm part of an organization called the Texas Nationalist Movement, and, and they, they they are advocating for Texas independence through the legislative process, you know, not not raising up arms. And, you know, it it's a possibility. I'd I'd love to see it in my life in my lifetime, you know, but if it doesn't happen in my lifetime, it doesn't, you know, at least I'm contributing towards it. If that happens, we will adjust our systems to be fair in the new You knew exactly where I was going with it. That's awesome.
You see, East Coast people thing. See, we we we align. We align. Alright, my friend. So let me see. So, so who's somebody that you respect right now that and, what are they doing that inspires you? You mean besides you? It besides well, it could be me. If you wanna be me, you could be me. It's fine. I've had a guest do that once.
[01:02:38] Unknown:
I don't wanna name names because there are, you know, people that that are in vulnerable places, but there are, there are three women and two men that are very important to me, and, they serve as inspiration
[01:02:55] Unknown:
every day. Outstanding. I like that. That's a I like that answer. That's a good answer. I like that. Fantastic. So where can the audience go to find out more about you, your work, and everything you're doing?
[01:03:06] Unknown:
Voteright.com. That's b0terit. Keith, the wrong address. Yes, you did. B0trite.com.
[01:03:15] Unknown:
You see, not only can we not handle paper, not only can we not count, but we can't Now,
[01:03:20] Unknown:
I'm a mathematician. Doesn't make I can handle the numbers. But you can't spell a website. The letters are a whole different thing. B0trite.
[01:03:30] Unknown:
And we'll we will make sure that we have that in all of our show notes, on the audio side and the and the, the video side as well. Chris, bomb, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you. I really do. I look forward to being back. Oh, yeah. Let's listen. I will set well, I think I think your folks there that set this whole thing up have the, the calendar address. So just anytime you want, anytime you see an opening on that thing, just jump right on there. I would love to have you on more regularly. I've learned a tremendous amount today, and, it's a lot to digest. And I hope that the audience got something out of this too. And, folks, if you have any questions that you'd like to direct towards, towards our guest here, you can always send them over to me and I'll make sure that he gets them, or you could drop a comment down below in the comment section. And, if he decides to go back and watch the show at some other point, you can actually see the questions and we can talk about them another time.
If not, email them to me, [email protected], and I'll make sure that he gets them. Chris Baum. Baum? Baum. Baum. Baum. Thank you. Like palm.
[01:04:33] Unknown:
Right. Alright.
[01:04:35] Unknown:
God bless you, bro. Thank you. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. Alright, folks. Chris Baum. Alright. Podhome. Podhome.fm is the most modern and easy to use podcast hosting platform out there today. Use it to publish your episodes, enhance your audio, automatically generate transcript chapters, title show notes, and more. You can even podcast live through your own website with the with the player that they provide for you. Head over to podhome.fm today, get thirty days free when you sign up, and then it's only $15.99 a month. It's a great platform to be on folks. You really need to check them out, so please do. Podhome.fm has been my home platform for the audio for about two and a half almost three years now. And, it just keeps getting better and better and better. And Pod Home is about to launch an app, a player app, which is gonna be fantastic.
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Transmitting live from the asylum studios deep in the bowels of Southwest Texas. It's the Joe Ruge Show. The show where we talk about anything and everything, where nothing is sacred, nothing is watered down, and nothing is PC.
[00:04:38] Unknown:
Alright. Hey, folks. This is Joe Ruse. It is nineteen zero two hours on Friday, 09/12/2025. And it is great to be with you guys once again from the pimple on the backside of Texas, the beautiful city of Eagle Pass. And we're bringing the best quality talk radio we could muster without all the bluster. Welcome to the Joe Russo. And you know what, folks? I didn't do it. I need to, but it is Friday. Finally, finally, finally, frigging Friday. I don't think I've looked forward to a weekend more than I did this week. I'm excited about it. I have absolutely nothing planned to do, except just stuff around the house.
Clean, you know, good housewife stuff, which I don't have, which is a good thing. It's a great thing. It's a blessing. Trust me. But having said that, on a more serious note, so we had some developments today with, with the Charlie Kirk assassination. So we'll, address some of that, probably probably on Sunday's show, because I wanna get a little bit more of a grasp on exactly everything that's going on. But, what I will what I can say what I will say is that, I'm I'm very happy that they they have a suspect in custody. And, I'm very happy. I was very happy to hear about the charges that were being, being levied by the state, and, we're waiting to find out what the federal charges are going to be.
Very, very interesting situation. And, once again, as we've said on, on, Wednesday show, you know, of course, our our our prayers, our thoughts go to the Kirk family and those close to him. And, you know, we're gonna continue to pray for them as they go through this this particular period of time that they're dealing with. But, yeah, it's hard. It it's tough. You know? I don't I'd like I don't I've never met Charlie Kirk. I've been to one, TP USA, event. And, you know, when I heard when I when I found out what happened, and then I saw it, it it even again, even though I don't know him personally, it was like a gut punch. And if you if you saw the show Wednesday, you you you realize that, was not at my best game that day.
A lot of things other, you know, not just that situation, but a few other things were going on too, but just it was a it was a rough day, and, well, we're coming to the weekend. So we're gonna we're gonna relax, we're gonna do our thing, and we're gonna have a good time. Now, before we get into, into our guest who's patiently waiting for us in the waiting room, we're gonna have to do some housekeeping as we always do. So folks, if you would, please, head over to our website, joeroos.com. That's joeroos.com. Should be coming up on your screen momentarily when you get there. Don't forget to head over to the contact section, open up that little web form, and send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns that you have, any issues, any thoughts, or ideas that you have for a show, a topic, a guest that you'd like us to try to get, we always are interested in, in trying to meet those, those those needs and those requests. So please head over to the website, use the contact form, send it over to us, let us know what you're thinking. If you don't wanna use the web form, totally cool with me. That's why we have an email address. You can always email me directly at [email protected].
That's [email protected]. Also, if you would, while you're up on the website, look for the support button or the support page rather. And if you could help us out with a donation, we would really appreciate that. This is a value for value show. Alright? What does that mean? It just simply means that if if you are receiving anything of value from the content that we are putting out, we're asking that you return that value to us in the form of a donation. It could be your time, your talent, your treasure, one, two, or three, all of them. Doesn't make a difference. However, you have you can do it. As long as you have the means to do it, we appreciate that. And as always, we'll go through all the different tiers and ways you can help us out at the end of the show. Alright.
I think, get get to our sponsor here. So we have our sponsor, Ezra Healing. Now Ezra Healing is a substantial part of the new wellness paradigm currently being born in North America and around the globe. The global citizenry are no longer satisfied with the sick care version of so called health care. Band aid medicine, endlessly treating symptoms rather than root causes, must be abandoned, and it must be abandoned as soon as possible. Patient centric care must be the priority. We need to transition towards the do no harm model of private care that places humanity at the forefront of real health and wellness care. In this new model, your entire lifestyle is examined and analyzed to promote and support the totality of your body's integrated systems.
Ezra Healing is a solutions based health promotion and disease prevention, grassroots movement that is always evolving to best serve you and your family. For more information about Ezra Healing and all the programs that they offer, head over to ezrahealing.com. It should be up on your screen. Ezrahealing.com. And, when you get there, just let them know that you heard it right here on the Joe Russo. This way, they know that their money is being well spent. Alright. Well, with all of that said, tonight's guest is a leading voice in election technology and and integrity.
Christopher h Baum has over thirty years of experience delivering IT analysis for government and elections. He's advised states like New York, Arizona, and Delaware on election regulations. He's testified before congress to support the Help America Vote Act. At VoteRight, he serves as chief compliance officer, managing certification processes and election integrity. His 90 plus Gartner reports offer deep insights into voting system. Christopher's helped New York City's board of elections select next select next generation voting technology. He shares expertise on on shows like world, World Politics on PodTV and the Pete Santilli Show. Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Good to be here, Joe. It is great to have you here. I was I was actually really looking forward to, talking to you. And, when we were talking in the, preshow, I questioned my reason why I wanted to talk to you. No. I'm kidding. I'm just teasing you.
So,
[00:11:25] Unknown:
so, Hey. You know, we're both north, nor'easters. You know? You're from New York. I'm from Jersey. That's right. We you spent ten years in Texas so far. I spent ten years in Texas. Actually, I spent twelve years in Texas. You'll catch up. Sooner or
[00:11:41] Unknown:
later. And, oh, and by the way, I'm a proud UTEP graduate too, so go minors. Oh, nice. Very nice, very nice. So well I guess I I guess that might be the answer to the first question I was gonna ask you, maybe, I don't know, but I'll ask you anyway. What's something about you most people don't know, but should?
[00:11:59] Unknown:
Well, that's one of them. I, graduated with a, an arts degree in mathematics from the University of Texas in El Paso, which qualifies me to paint by number. Okay. So, that would be, one thing to know. I'm, So you know Picasso?
[00:12:20] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah. Okay.
[00:12:23] Unknown:
So, that would be one thing. Alright.
[00:12:26] Unknown:
What's your go to beverage to help you unwind at the end of the day?
[00:12:30] Unknown:
Mountain Dew.
[00:12:31] Unknown:
Wow. Another one of Mountain Dew. That's awesome. You know, you're the you're the third guest, or the fourth third or fourth guest that that that says Mountain Dew to that question. Everybody else is just water, like your quality. Yeah. You probably ought to check the demographics of not your listeners, but your guests. Yeah. I probably should. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Christopher, you you spent over thirty years shaping election technology, from advising states to test testifying before Congress. What would you call it a passion? I don't know. But what sparked your passion for improving voting systems and ensuring election integrity?
[00:13:07] Unknown:
Accident. Basically, what happened was, in the mid to late nineties, I was, helping governments around the world prepare for y two k, and, noticed that a lot of voting systems were gonna be a problem. Mhmm. So, you may have read about this in history or your grandparents might have told you about it. But back in, the year February, there was an issue with elections, with whole hanging chad things, you know, from Mhmm. Broward County. I have one of those voting stations in my basement.
[00:13:45] Unknown:
Really? Yeah. Okay.
[00:13:49] Unknown:
So, yeah. And, since I had been saying, look. We we gotta take a look at that what's going on here. Suddenly, that became my life for the next twenty five years. Wow. And I like to think that I've been I've made a positive, impact on it. And, I know that there are parts of it that you and I disagree on, and I'm sure that they'll be coming up all in the next thirty to forty five seconds.
[00:14:18] Unknown:
No. Not yet.
[00:14:19] Unknown:
Okay. But, yeah, I I think that, what I have been, dedicating myself to and what VoteRight, who recruited me, is dedicating themselves to is making sure that accurate that elections are accurate, transparent, and fair. Mhmm. That every vote gets counted gets counted exactly one time, and reported appropriately.
[00:14:46] Unknown:
Alright. Well, just gonna back up a little bit here. I'm not as young as you think I am. So I I I've been around, I I I remember that election very very very clearly. As a matter of fact, my the first the first chance the first opportunity I had to vote was for, Ronald Reagan for his second term. So, so yeah. So I've been around. I've I've seen a few of these things, and I I I do recall several of these, these issues with voting systems, and and so again, so obviously it's not thirty seconds or forty five seconds, we're gonna get into it now though. I'm not a big fan of electronic voting systems, because I I I don't trust them. After what happened with the twenty sixteen, twenty twenty elections, and, even the attempt on the twenty twenty four elections, I I kinda repositioned myself to to be more in favor of going back to the old ways of doing things, and just doing it with a paper ballot, photo ID, drop it in the ballot box at at a location.
No more of these voting seasons, and, you know, just one day you vote, you're done. That's it.
[00:16:02] Unknown:
Okay. So let's let's examine that a little bit. Sure. In a few different ways. Now you're out there in, Maverick County. Right? That's correct. Okay. So, there were 15,745 ballots, cast in the presidential election in 2024.
[00:16:25] Unknown:
Mhmm. You wanna count them by hand. Right? Well, it it it would be, I think, the the best way to do it.
[00:16:33] Unknown:
Okay. So let let's go down that. So the way that you do you, you were living there then. Mhmm. Do you remember the ballot? Mhmm.
[00:16:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Very much.
[00:16:47] Unknown:
How many races were on the ballot?
[00:16:50] Unknown:
There were you had the presidential, then you had two you had the the senate. You had a couple locals on there as well. So I wanna say maybe
[00:17:00] Unknown:
maybe eight. 17.
[00:17:03] Unknown:
Oh, okay.
[00:17:05] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:17:06] Unknown:
So that's how well you count. Yes. Yeah. As you can tell. Well, my memory's not that great. You know? I do I Okay. I liken my memory to Swiss cheese.
[00:17:14] Unknown:
Alright. Alright. So 17. Okay. Now, out in Mohave County, in Arizona, they did a test on a similar size ballot and how long it takes to count a ballot. Okay. And now the method that they use is the most widely, accepted method, which is called read and mark. And basically, what you do is you got four people. Okay? You got somebody who reads the ballot. Mhmm. Two people who have preprinted sheets that mark the ballot, and then they have an observer, and the observer makes sure that the person is reading that accurately and the tallyers are tallying it accurately. So four people. Okay?
Ballot that size, about three minutes per ballot. Does that seem reasonable to you? Yeah. Okay. So we're talking about twenty minutes of ballot if you go nonstop and nobody makes any mistakes. Right? K. So four people, 20 ballots an hour. You're talking about to count Maverick County's ballots, seven hundred eighty seven and a quarter hours.
[00:18:28] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:18:29] Unknown:
K. Just to count that county's balance. Now I'm assuming that, you know, when you you total all that out, by the way, totaling all out is, 3,149 person hours because you need four people for each one of those hours. Right? Right. At federal minimum wage, minimum wage in Texas too, of $732.25
[00:18:56] Unknown:
an hour. It was good. If that was minimum wage, then I'm in the wrong job. Yeah. So
[00:19:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Right. Exactly. So at $7.25 an hour Mhmm. Just counting the ballots is almost $23,000. Okay. Okay. So that's the count. That's not preparing the ballots. That's not authorizing the ballots. That's not feeding the people, providing tables, providing lighting. That's just the time to count the ballots. Okay? Okay. I'm following. Alright. Alright. So now we spent $22,000 for that team of four, and it takes them seven hundred and eighty seven hours. Now how many days is that? Seven hundred and eighty seven hours? How many days? Yeah. I'll get my calculator up. Okay. You get no. I'm sure you have it. No. No. I I I want you to do this for me. Okay. We we got an hour to kill, Joe.
[00:20:01] Unknown:
Well, we have forty five minutes to kill. Okay. I'm I'm playing with you. So what what did we say it was?
[00:20:07] Unknown:
Seven hundred eighty seven and one quarter hours. We'll round it to seven eighty seven, you know, be conservative.
[00:20:15] Unknown:
Alright. So thirty two point eight.
[00:20:19] Unknown:
Okay. So we're talking over a month of people working twenty four hours a day to count ballots, assuming that we use the same four people.
[00:20:31] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:20:32] Unknown:
Alright. So we're probably not gonna use the same four people for a month straight. Right? Because they need to, like, sleep and eat and Really? Stuff like that. Yeah. You remember those days. Right? I kinda used to be get to sleep. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Okay. So in order to meet the requirements of publishing the dates, you need to have more people.
[00:20:57] Unknown:
Right.
[00:20:58] Unknown:
Alright? And now are you talking about having them working, eight hour days, sixteen hour days? If you have sixteen hour days, you have to have two shifts of people.
[00:21:11] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
So it starts getting real expensive real fast. Now I'd like you to do something for me, Joe. Sure. Starting by starting from one count by threes.
[00:21:21] Unknown:
Starting from one count by threes? Yeah. I can't do that in my head. I'm too tired today.
[00:21:28] Unknown:
Alright. So so far, in the amount of time that we've been together, you failed to count accurately twice. Okay. Yeah. But I told you, it's been a long day. Okay. Well, now I understand that. So people are really bad at counting.
[00:21:46] Unknown:
Yeah. I see your point.
[00:21:48] Unknown:
We are so bad at counting that, you ask for contributions. Right? Yes. You know, pe pe people to to contribute. Mhmm. How much of that comes in cash?
[00:22:01] Unknown:
None of it. It It all comes through electronic. Electronic. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:22:07] Unknown:
So, this is how bad things are with people counting. You go to a you go to your bank. Right? Yes, sir. You cash a check. $200, $20 bills. You find out that one of those twenties is counterfeit. At what point do you no longer have recourse against your bank?
[00:22:41] Unknown:
I would imagine the moment you walk out the door.
[00:22:44] Unknown:
No. The moment you step away from the counter. Oh, okay. So that's how bad we are with paper, that even the banks don't take responsibility for their own paper.
[00:22:56] Unknown:
Interesting. I didn't I I I was not aware of that. That's Okay. Yeah. So,
[00:23:02] Unknown:
we're bad at counting. We're bad at paper. You can't see my fingers here. But see and we're we're and we're bad at putting fingers in front of camera except the one, and I'm not gonna do that because that would be rude. So as a society, we're really bad at this. Now some countries do actually vote on paper. Mhmm. Canada. Alright? When Canada elects their government, guess how many races are on the ballot?
[00:23:37] Unknown:
I wouldn't know. One. Oh, okay.
[00:23:42] Unknown:
So they only have to count one thing.
[00:23:44] Unknown:
Okay. I see where you're going. Alright. Alright.
[00:23:47] Unknown:
Now let's talk about where you live in, in Eagle Pass there. Mhmm. Okay? So mayor for council people. Right? Correct. And when is the mayoral election?
[00:24:02] Unknown:
Just passed. So it was this past November. Actually, it was this past May. No. It wasn't November. No. That we had a runoff. We did have the runoff.
[00:24:12] Unknown:
Your mayoral elections are
[00:24:15] Unknown:
in May of odd number of years. Okay. Well, you know more about it than I do. I don't pay attention to it. Right.
[00:24:22] Unknown:
So why do you think that is? Why is it in odd number years? And why is it in May instead of November?
[00:24:31] Unknown:
Beats May.
[00:24:33] Unknown:
Because they don't want people to come out for the vote. If you wanted to have the greatest turnout in the mayoral election, when would it be?
[00:24:45] Unknown:
It would be in the fall. On election day. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:49] Unknown:
It's not.
[00:24:51] Unknown:
That's I I you know what? I I you just blew me away with that one. I guess that would explain why the voter turnout here is so bad.
[00:25:06] Unknown:
And what you think the solution is is to re further restrict voter participation.
[00:25:12] Unknown:
But I don't I don't think I don't I don't see putting a paper ballot in as, as restricting a voter. I I just I think it just to me, it just makes more sense and more it's a greater sense of accountability, I think. I don't trust the electronic systems, you know. I'm not saying that they couldn't work, and we didn't really get into what VoteRight does and, the the direct recording electronic technology that you guys use and all that stuff. You know, we kinda jumped into question 12 from question four. So, you know, we didn't really get set the stage. Can't count. You're right. Exactly. So we because we I we we get a chance to set the stage here. So, so I'm sure that there are benefits to it. I'm not saying that there aren't, but I I just think that paper ballots were more secure, and they've been as they had been in the past. I'm not saying you can't fudge paper ballots. I'm absolutely good. We're that's why voting systems were invented because we're really good
[00:26:10] Unknown:
at fudging paper ballots. Mhmm. Now let's let's talk about that. Well, do do you wanna go back to questions five through eleven first? Yes. Let's do that. Let's do that. Let's set the stage here. So so,
[00:26:23] Unknown:
Vote Right. So, like I mentioned, direct recording, electronic technology, and, voter verified paper audit trails.
[00:26:31] Unknown:
Explain those to us, please. Okay. Basically, on the we we've got a few systems, but the the, one that most people will be using is the Titan system, which is a, it's a computer like a an ATM kiosk. Right? Mhmm. You go up to it. It is unlocked electronically by the poll worker. The poll worker then steps away, so the voter has privacy. Right. Makes their selection. Now here's the thing. They can make their selection in any one of the approved languages in that district. If they can't read it, you know, because of screen dynamics, they can increase the contrast, change the colors, all under the voters control, or they can listen to it, and it will play for them, and they can adjust the speed.
Do you ever listen to audiobooks? No. Okay. Me either. But people that do often play them at faster than normal speed because you can hear faster, than it than you can speak. Mhmm. Alright. Sounds weird, but you can change the pitch and stuff like that. Yeah. That I'm aware of that. Yeah. Right. So you can, listen to the ballot. You can read the ballot. When you make your selections and you're ready to cast, it prints out a paper receipt. And it says, is this what you're you're voting? And if you'd no, then you said no, and it writes void at the bottom of it. And you vote again, and you print out another receipt.
When you agree with it, only at that point does it cast. And at that point, that paper is a valid receipt. Now with our system, it casts it three different ways in three different technologies that are tied together by a random number. So it doesn't identify the voter, but all three of the stored versions are tied together. So I cannot only do an audit within each one of the technologies, I can do them across the technologies. I can see where the PDF lines up with the recorded electronic vote, which ties back to the paper. I can see that all of those are equal.
[00:28:53] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:28:54] Unknown:
Now when I wanna do an audit, I do it on all three separate systems, and I do a statistically valid audit. So I I audit the PDFs. I I can audit the electronic results. I can audit the paper ballots, and they should all be within the degree of of freedom for that particular audit. If you're gonna do a 100% audit, they should all agree.
[00:29:18] Unknown:
Okay. That makes sense.
[00:29:20] Unknown:
Alright. So the way that you know that the system is secure, it won't start without the electronic key. The electronic key contains the ballot. It is encrypted and randomized, so it ties to that particular machine, but you can't duplicate it. The machine the results are right once. If you try to overwrite it, it keeps a copy of what was written before.
[00:29:49] Unknown:
Alright. You're making the you're making a good sales pitch here. You might be changing Okay. Now, so how do I know that the machine hasn't been tampered with? Well,
[00:29:57] Unknown:
there's something called the gold copy of the software. Right? That's locked up. It is not on the system itself. So at any time, at a judge's order, you can compare the software that's on the gold standard to the software in the machine.
[00:30:16] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:30:17] Unknown:
And see if there is a one to one. So I can check it before an election. I can check it during election if the judge orders me to. You can audit it after the election. So you auto so you audit random systems in a statistically valid way. I don't know which systems are gonna be audited because they're drawn by lot.
[00:30:45] Unknown:
Alright.
[00:30:47] Unknown:
So I can check the software before. I can check the software during if necessary, and I can check the software after. Now you were telling me, before we came on that you had a situation with your prior, platform where you got dropped off. Right? Correct. Yeah. Okay. So what happens if the power goes out in the voting system? Voting system has a a two hour battery backup built in, and you can plug into a external, supply if necessary so people can continue to vote if the power goes out. Or how about this? You're talking about coming, you know, in person to vote. Mhmm. Let's say that that's the rule. There's somebody who doesn't have access.
They wanna go to the voting system. Alright? Right. With our system, you can put it on a table, roll it out, maintaining chain of custody to the vehicle, check the voter however your jurisdiction says to check the voter Right. And they can vote from their vehicle, and then it goes protecting the chain of custody back inside for the next voter. That's an option. It doesn't have to be implemented. Again, that's up to the jurisdiction. The point is is that we, as a company, don't make that decision for you. We give you the options, and then we help you enforce the legal options that are selected.
Alright. Well, that
[00:32:25] Unknown:
I'm I'm I'm really impressed. I'll be I'll be honest with you. I think that that that sounds great. It sounds great. Has it's been has this been run yet? Has this been tested? Has it has it been in use yet? We have tested it in private elections, not public elections yet. Okay. And and and what was the results of those?
[00:32:46] Unknown:
People keep using it for
[00:32:48] Unknown:
private elections. Alright. Okay.
[00:32:52] Unknown:
Let me see. We are working on a new technology, and this is a little bit, you know, I'm going out a little bit on a limb here. Secure voting from your phone.
[00:33:05] Unknown:
I don't know about I don't know how I feel about that one.
[00:33:08] Unknown:
That's okay. We're not there yet, but, you know, how often do you give your phone to somebody else?
[00:33:16] Unknown:
Not often. Yeah.
[00:33:20] Unknown:
I'm gonna guess that it's less often than you give your car keys to somebody else.
[00:33:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Probably so. Probably so. Probably so.
[00:33:35] Unknown:
But I don't really need it. And your car doesn't have facial recognition on it? No.
[00:33:41] Unknown:
No. That would be good though.
[00:33:44] Unknown:
Yeah. It depends on how I'm looking that day.
[00:33:50] Unknown:
So, so alright. So, like, the main the the important things here are chain of custody is maintained.
[00:33:58] Unknown:
Right. You have the Voter intent vote integrity is maintained.
[00:34:03] Unknown:
Voter integrity is maintained? Audibility
[00:34:05] Unknown:
is maintained. Alright.
[00:34:07] Unknown:
Alright. You already covered the so you you jumped ahead so much. We already covered how vote rights technology compares to traditional paper ballots. Alright. Now the certification process. Yeah. Can you walk us through that whole process of how you manage the certification process, and how do we really ensure that the electronic systems meet strict security standards?
[00:34:36] Unknown:
Okay. This is an area that's in flux right now. Okay. Because of executive orders coming from the White House right now. But, until this point in time, there was a commission, the election assistance commission that was, mandated by congress, came up with voting system standards that are voluntary. It is up to the state by constitutional law to determine how elections are run-in each state.
[00:35:11] Unknown:
Right.
[00:35:12] Unknown:
So some states adopted, formally, the voluntary standards from the EAC. Some, like my own home state of New Jersey, did it informally. It was never enacted by the state legislator, but the office, of election said, first step is you gotta get federal certification.
[00:35:37] Unknown:
Alright.
[00:35:39] Unknown:
And that certification, there are two labs that are certified testers, and they have a whole lot of stuff that they have to meet in terms of durability and accessibility and security, in order to get verified. And then once again, there's a gold copy of the software that's installed on the system, and that is the only software that's installed on the system. And it can be compared against the system at any point. And, I did leave out a very important part about the Boatwright systems. Our systems aren't networked. They aren't tied together to anything. They're all completely it's called air gapping. Okay. So there's no way to remotely hack our system because it's not connected to anything.
[00:36:27] Unknown:
Which was a problem. Have the elect yep. Which was a problem in the past. Yeah. Because they they because there were all these systems, even though they weren't supposed to be connected together networked, like, they were, and they were easily accessible. I I thought I remember somebody, what's the guy's name, actually hacked into a voting machine, as a demonstration.
[00:36:48] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. But he had physical access to it. So there, there were a couple of cases like that, but they're all based on having physical access to the system. Okay. I see. So, you know, and with our system, you can't do them all at the same time. You have to have individual access to them. And you know what you see about security and software updates and all that kind of stuff that you have to go on your laptop? Mhmm. That doesn't happen with our voting system because they are networked and it's a golden system. It can't be cyber attacked because there isn't any cyber aspect to it.
If I don't have physical access to it, I can't connect to it unless I get there, start it up. I've got the properly, encrypted electronic key to start it. And then even then, it would fail an audit. So Alright. It's not you know, when you think hear about ATMs being hacked, you don't hear about them actually being hacked. You hear one of two things. Somebody's scamming them, so they're using the a t the the ATM as an entry point, and they put a film over the key, and they're, like, recording your key presses, or they have a camera. So they're they're scanning it or scanning it as you're putting your card in, or they're ripping them out of the wall and taking the money.
[00:38:18] Unknown:
Right. Which I don't think it happens as as frequently as probably the the electronic version of that. It's, you know, putting the putting the films over the keypads. I've seen Right. We've all seen videos, you know, on Sure. On YouTube and and all that stuff of stores coming across that on their, on their keypads, you know, for snap benefits and all that stuff, credit card readers. So, yeah, I think that's a little bit more, I think it's easier to do that than it is to rip one out of the wall. Oh, yeah. But,
[00:38:48] Unknown:
Quieter too.
[00:38:49] Unknown:
Much much, especially if you're living in in a city, you know, you know, you get too much attention. So in switching over from a paper ballot system to to a vote right system, how quickly how long would it take to implement these things and and and and see the benefit and the trust, efficiency, and voter confidence? Efficiency, and
[00:39:11] Unknown:
voter confidence? Well, it turns out that the training for an electronic system and the training for a paper ballot system, in terms of the poll workers is equivalent. K? It's it's about the same time. People don't understand how bad we are at handling paper.
[00:39:27] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[00:39:28] Unknown:
And in order to have paper that's verifiable, you need to have certain processes in place, and you need to, drill in and build muscle memory. So you can't take people a a group of people, give them a half an hour course, and say, alright. This is how we're gonna handle the paper ballots. That doesn't happen. Right. So it takes an equivalent amount of time to teach the poll workers how to use it and the public how to use it. It also takes an equivalent amount of time to teach voters how to handle paper versus how to handle electronic voting systems.
And, again, we're not great at either of those. In New Jersey, in in my county, Burlington County, there was a problem in the presidential elections in the primaries where there was a setting in the voting system that disenfranchised people. In New Jersey, as similar to the system that's used there in Eagle Pass, what happens is it's printed on a piece of paper, on two sides, and then you have to grab the piece of paper, and you take it over to a ballot scanner, and you place it into the scanner. Mhmm. Right?
[00:40:45] Unknown:
Here, no. When I when I voted last, to the mayor, it was you filled out the the little bubble form, and you took it over to the box. You just dropped it in the box. Right. Okay.
[00:40:55] Unknown:
And they scanned it on the other side. Right. Well, what the system that you so you in New Jersey, you actually have the paper ballot that's printed for you, and you hand carry it over to the scanner. What happened was they decided to set it up so the back half of the ballot was printed first, then it gets fed automatically back into the printer and the front part of the ballot prints. But in the New Jersey primary, there was only one side. So if the voter wasn't, properly educated, they would grab it when it comes out the first time in the which was the blank second page, and the first page never printed. So now I've got a blank piece of paper.
[00:41:38] Unknown:
Right. I get you.
[00:41:42] Unknown:
So unless I wanna go through the process of reprinting and getting my, poll worker over to the printer to help me reprint it and then waiting for it to print again and making sure that the first page is properly destroyed. Basically, my vote doesn't count because it isn't counted until the paper is fed into the scanner. Okay? Actually yeah. I I I see that. Yeah. So it's actually easier to train on our systems because you don't have to do anything other than collect the paper and it goes into the ballot box. It doesn't get scanned there. The votes are already recorded.
[00:42:20] Unknown:
Alright. That's you know what? I I came into this thinking that I'm pretty solid on my paper ballot. But as you're explaining this to me, I I could see how this would work, and, I'm not gonna say I'm completely sold on it, but It's okay. I just want an open mind. Yeah. Well, yeah. Of course. Absolutely. I I I don't know. I I don't know. But we'll see. We'll see. Let's let's continue on here. Okay. Let's see. We already asked about that. How does VoteRight's use of individual databases and no hackable downloads address issues of, slow counting potential errors? We already covered that.
[00:43:10] Unknown:
Got that. Actually, let let's talk about the count, because that that's kind of interesting. Okay. In a bigger metropolis, if you're, like, in Houston or, you know, Dallas or someplace like that, where you've got voting centers that are widely distributed, what you get from VoteRight is a secure electronic module that has to be transported to the vote site, but you also get a tally from each individual voting system at the end of the day. So depending on the rules for the jurisdiction, that, electronic key that has all of the results on it goes into a locked bag. It's taped with, secure tape that's numbered.
The number is, written, goes in the bag. And so chain of custody all the way through, transported to the site, unsealed, signed, put into the tabulator. That's the official results. So as fast as they can transport it and read it into the tabulator, the results are ready. If a key is missing, the system will tell you, hey. One of them hasn't been tabulated. It was assigned to this voting system at this jurisdiction. Somebody tries to put a key twice, it'll say, this has already been tabulated. Remove it. K. So you don't get the Jurassic Park issue. Mhmm. Remember the the first Jurassic Park issue and why there were so many velociraptors?
[00:44:54] Unknown:
Right.
[00:44:55] Unknown:
K. They stopped counting when they hit the expected number. Mhmm. They didn't realize that there was a whole bunch more than the expected number. Yeah. They didn't realize they were reproducing. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta check both sides of that equation. Did I did anything get read twice, and did I get everything that was expected? Both of those are alert situations. Now for the informal results, yeah, you take a picture of the results from each machine, and you send it off. Alright? Those don't have to have a clean, chain of custody because they're, unofficial results.
So people wanna see the numbers as fast as possible. What we're not doing is waiting seven hundred and eighty seven person hours to get the results, which is what it would have taken if we hand counted the presidential ballots there in Eagle Pass. Mhmm.
[00:45:58] Unknown:
Let me see. I wanna screen share something. As I I'm looking at your website or or vote rights website, and, talking about encryption authentication and such really Yeah. Really because I'm I'm listening to you as you as you're speaking, but I'm reading this at the same time. This is this is really interesting to me. Let's see if I can get that up there. Here we go.
[00:46:22] Unknown:
Now it's important to realize that any encryption can be broken given enough power and enough time. What we're saying is is that our system is more than secure enough to make sure that results are valid are valid and verifiable.
[00:46:44] Unknown:
So we have let's see. So, VoteRight has developed a system with the following features, authentication, two level password based user authentication, Password is managed and maintained only by administrator owner of the solution and is stored in a dual key encrypted form. Right. Input method of ID and PWD is restricted via in app keys, PIN pad POS based, which eliminates any kind of SQL injection, threat in authentication process. Okay. So I I kind of understand what that is. Can you explain that in layman's terms so people can understand that a little bit better?
[00:47:21] Unknown:
Sure. Okay. So basically what we're saying is, at any point, two people have to authorize access to the machine. Right? They've gotta have two authorized users even at the poll site. So at the poll site, the administrator has to unlock the machine, print the report saying, hey. This is how many ballots were voted on it. And assuming that we're going with a single election day in your case, that number should be zero.
[00:47:55] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:47:57] Unknown:
Alright? And then there'll be, an end report at the end of the day saying, this many ballots were cast on this machine, and the winners of each election were this by this many votes. But it takes two people to, turn the system on and get that in the morning. They have their secure electronic keys, that also contain the ballot for that system or the ballots appropriate for that system. There might be more than one ballot on a system, and it's up to the poll worker to say, alright. You're from this jurisdiction. This is your ballot, and then the voter has to agree to that.
Because you might have, like, two congressional districts or two school board districts going to the same physical location. I see. Alright.
[00:48:46] Unknown:
Okay.
[00:48:48] Unknown:
Let's see. For each k. Time that somebody votes, the poll worker has to unlock it. So the poll worker is verifying that, yes, this already pre verified voter has been presented to me. I am unlocking it for the appropriate ballot for that voter, and then the voter agrees and votes. At the end of the day, when everything is shut down, the poll worker and the admin both have to put in this the secure key and then get the results from it. The electronic key is then, you know, sealed securely, typically locked in the bag. All of that depends on the jurisdiction, how they wanna maintain the chain of custody Right. And securely transferred to the, ballot management site where they do the final counting.
[00:49:44] Unknown:
Would this would this image here kind of explain what you're talking about? Or is this
[00:49:50] Unknown:
something other than Kind of. I mean, this is sort of, like, alright. We we encrypted every step of the way, and you've gotta have two keys to undo it. And that's what I was telling you about. At no point is one person responsible except when the actual voting takes place, that is one person voting privately. Every other step requires at least two people.
[00:50:20] Unknown:
Alright. So this is this is really interesting information. I gotta I gotta spend more time reading this.
[00:50:29] Unknown:
Boy. It's your show, man. No. I know.
[00:50:32] Unknown:
I I hear you, brother. I hear you. This is this well, I see. I'm I'm I'm kind of familiar with with reading these types of logs, and I've I've seen this stuff before, and I've I've played around with these things. So I I I can follow along for the most part.
[00:50:52] Unknown:
But the point is is that the encryption that we use is, d d d e s. So, yeah, given enough time and enough power, you can break it. You're not gonna break it on election night. You're not gonna make break it beforehand. And even if you break it on the machine beforehand, it still wouldn't pass the audit process.
[00:51:10] Unknown:
Gotcha. I gotcha. Let's see. So all of this information is available. I'm not showing anything super secret or anything like that. This stuff is all available on the Vote Right website, so folks can go there and check it out themselves if they're skeptical, like I like I am. It's it's important though. I mean, I think elections are important. We need we need to make sure that they're secure. That's the whole fundamental that's the whole foundation of our republic is is our free free and fair open elections. And look, you know, if if if VoteRight is the solution for this, then then the technology behind it is a solution for this. And look, you know, I I'll I can support that, you know, and I and I I wouldn't have an issue with it.
I like again, my concern is, you know, the the loss of data, the loss of information, or the hackability of of the systems. And, you know, and from what I'm looking at here, this looks like a pretty secure system. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say it's not. So I'm I'm really impressed with this, and, you know, I and I gotta commend you, of course, for for doing your homework prior to the coming on the show with with the information that you brought. And that's great, you know. You did catch me flat footed. I'll I will be the first to admit that. Totally. Absolutely.
[00:52:25] Unknown:
But, But but but that's exactly the point. I mean, you're absolutely right. This is important stuff, and we need to take it seriously. Yeah. We need to do our homework as as voters and citizens. Absolutely. Yep. And we need to ask intelligent questions, and and we deserve intelligent answers.
[00:52:45] Unknown:
I agree.
[00:52:47] Unknown:
There are times when it is absolutely appropriate to do a hand count, And that's the best way to do an audit. One of the aspects of an audit has to be a hand count. But you need to know what the rules about that are and how to make it statistically valid, and all of that needs to be spelled out in the rules of the election. So everybody can ask questions ahead of time.
[00:53:16] Unknown:
Now for, just just, you know, for communities that that are looking for secure, accessible, cost effective elections, how do you help them weigh the trade offs between using the paper ballots and adopting vote rights technology, especially when public trust in elections is really low?
[00:53:33] Unknown:
Well, again, what we take a look at is no. We show them really what it costs to run an election, and it's more than the cost of just counting because you've got to have sufficient ballots printed. Mhmm. Alright? Sufficient ballots distributed. Yeah. My system uses regular register tape.
[00:53:55] Unknown:
Really?
[00:53:56] Unknown:
Yeah. Don't have to have preprinted ballots. Okay? They're in the machine. Mhmm. So the paper handling that you're doing is paper rolls, not, you know, 11 by 17 inch preprinted ballots. I gotcha. And the machines are easily portable, typically carried by one healthy person. So if there's a an issue with the system, it's very easy to have strategically placed replacement systems that can be brought securely transported, set up, and voting goes on, where you get a larger turnout at one, one venue than was expected. If it's within the rules of the jurisdiction, extra voting systems can be securely added to that location and and tracked. Mhmm.
And we already talked about it. If there's a problem with power, Voci can go on. It has the batteries. We can run them we can run them for sixteen hour days without electricity. Wow.
[00:55:06] Unknown:
Yeah. I I you know, I I I'm gonna tell you honestly, I came in here totally skeptical of the whole thing, and, you're you you you made some excellent points here, and I'm I'm gonna tell you honestly that I'm I'm gonna rethink all of this. And, you know, we'll come back to this again at some point. I'll I'll get you on, and I'll and I'll
[00:55:23] Unknown:
give you my, come to Jesus moment with it. But That would be my pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Well you know in the last seven minutes you wanna, so are you Cowboys or Jets?
[00:55:32] Unknown:
I am a Jets fan.
[00:55:33] Unknown:
Okay,
[00:55:34] Unknown:
so because you know I mean I'm here, I mean the Jets will always be my my team, you know, but I do, so I break it down like this, I have an AFC team and I have an NFC team. My NFC team is they're the Cowboys. My AFC team is the the Jets, and that's how I keep peace. But I'll always be a Jets fan. Well, you know,
[00:55:54] Unknown:
grown ups outside of Philly, you have two favorite teams. It's the Eagles and whoever the Cowboys are playing that week. There you go. Last week, it was just one team. Yes. I agree with you on that one. That was that was a problem. I'm looking forward to the Super Bowl rematch this Sunday. Assuming that none of the Eagles spit on anybody, it's gonna be a really good game.
[00:56:15] Unknown:
We shall see. We shall see. So, so out of out of everything that we've talked about tonight, what what it what is the one thing that you hope the audience takes away from the entire conversation?
[00:56:27] Unknown:
Honestly, it's this. People can't count.
[00:56:29] Unknown:
Mhmm. As proved?
[00:56:31] Unknown:
Yeah. And you need to realize that, you know. Next time you pay for something in cash, listen to how they give you change. Mhmm. Okay? The money's probably you know, the the actual change coins probably come a machine. They're they're probably not counted out by hand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:56:52] Unknown:
That's very that's very, very, very, very good point. Excellent point. They don't actually count it out. Like, the cash, the actual dollar bills well, actually, you know what? I I've been to a place where the actually, the the the paper currency doesn't even get touched by the cashier. It comes out of the out of the machine. I've seen
[00:57:11] Unknown:
that. And and how much do we trust our paper currency that is designed, you know, to not be counterfeit? How many places do you go where they won't take 50 or a $100 bills? Oh, plenty.
[00:57:23] Unknown:
Yeah. Especially the bodegas in the little corner places, you know? Yeah. You know, yeah. No. It's it's you're right. I I I cannot I cannot dispute that at all, you know, and and I know that from my experiences, in in my previous line of work, you know, we were trained to look for those things, look for the counterfeits, not just in in currency and coin, but also in other items as well. Right. And, so, yeah. It it's it it it's an unfortunate reality that we have to deal with. Yeah. It it is. So is there anything that we haven't covered that you wanna talk about? No. No. I listen. I really appreciate the the time to speak with you, Joe. This is going by real quickly for me. I I hope it wasn't too, too much for you. I I I'm gonna be honest with you. I like I said before, I came in I came into the conversation completely skeptical of this.
You know, I read them I read through the website, I read through the information that I had on hand, and, I I was I was skeptical about it. But, you know, the way you presented the information to me, you know, it it, I'm not gonna say I've I've had my my my my born again moment here with this, but, you know, you definitely planted a seed that I'm gonna have I'm gonna really look at this a little more carefully, and, spend some more time I appreciate that. In researching it. Because if if if it if it's as simple as you make it sound, I I know the technology is not simple. Don't don't misunderstand what you're saying.
But if if it's as simple as you make it sound, then then this is something that that can really, really pretty much guarantee to folks that or or at least help them to trust the the process of the election now a little bit more, take it take a little more seriously. And Absolutely. And I think that's fantastic. And, you know, that's what we need. You know, unfortunately, election gets stolen. They get stolen quite a bit. And I'm sure there were elections stolen all the way back through our our history as a country. I am sure of it. Next time I come out, I'll talk to you talk to you about a famous one in Texas. Okay. Yeah. That would be great. I'd see, I don't I I have to get better on my Texas history. You know? I'm I'm from New York. Talk to you about a famous one in New York. Yeah. Well, we could do that too. You see, I I love I love American history. I might and I just actually, I just did a series. I I teach bible studies on on Sunday, on my Sunday show.
And, I I I just finished a series on America's Christian heritage, and I went through all that stuff. And I and the what I did, which is a lot different than than a lot of other folks do, is I went actually back to historical records at that time. So historians that wrote about what they what they heard and knew about at the time. There was no political spin to it. There was no no no hidden agenda behind it. They just relayed the facts as they were available. And, you know, it opened up it opens up your whole perspective on it. Now, long story short is I love American history, and I love coming from New York and and New Jersey, you know, pivotal states during the American revolutionary period.
I love the history behind that stuff. So I know more about his you know, American history from New York and and New Jersey and, you know, the surrounding area than I do about Texas. And, Yeah. But Texas wasn't part of it then. No. It wasn't. But but Texas has a a a a rich history. And Absolutely. And, there were some great, great men that came out of Texas. Sam Houston, obviously. I mean, you know, the, the Alamo. All of that all that stuff is amazing. Amazing history, incredibly brave men that that stood for independence here in Texas. And I think it's gonna go that way again at some point. I think Texas is actually gonna officially separate from the union at some point. The the the momentum well, the momentum is there, public opinion on it is pretty high. The last the last thing I heard as a, like, an unofficial polling was done. It was like 60% of people polled are in favor of Texas leaving the union.
And,
[01:01:34] Unknown:
you know That does require another war.
[01:01:37] Unknown:
Yeah. You hope not. You you do you hope not.
[01:01:41] Unknown:
But there isn't any mechanism for it.
[01:01:43] Unknown:
Yeah, there is actually. It's it's through legislative process. I'm part of an organization called the Texas Nationalist Movement, and, and they, they they are advocating for Texas independence through the legislative process, you know, not not raising up arms. And, you know, it it's a possibility. I'd I'd love to see it in my life in my lifetime, you know, but if it doesn't happen in my lifetime, it doesn't, you know, at least I'm contributing towards it. If that happens, we will adjust our systems to be fair in the new You knew exactly where I was going with it. That's awesome.
You see, East Coast people thing. See, we we we align. We align. Alright, my friend. So let me see. So, so who's somebody that you respect right now that and, what are they doing that inspires you? You mean besides you? It besides well, it could be me. If you wanna be me, you could be me. It's fine. I've had a guest do that once.
[01:02:38] Unknown:
I don't wanna name names because there are, you know, people that that are in vulnerable places, but there are, there are three women and two men that are very important to me, and, they serve as inspiration
[01:02:55] Unknown:
every day. Outstanding. I like that. That's a I like that answer. That's a good answer. I like that. Fantastic. So where can the audience go to find out more about you, your work, and everything you're doing?
[01:03:06] Unknown:
Voteright.com. That's b0terit. Keith, the wrong address. Yes, you did. B0trite.com.
[01:03:15] Unknown:
You see, not only can we not handle paper, not only can we not count, but we can't Now,
[01:03:20] Unknown:
I'm a mathematician. Doesn't make I can handle the numbers. But you can't spell a website. The letters are a whole different thing. B0trite.
[01:03:30] Unknown:
And we'll we will make sure that we have that in all of our show notes, on the audio side and the and the, the video side as well. Chris, bomb, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you. I really do. I look forward to being back. Oh, yeah. Let's listen. I will set well, I think I think your folks there that set this whole thing up have the, the calendar address. So just anytime you want, anytime you see an opening on that thing, just jump right on there. I would love to have you on more regularly. I've learned a tremendous amount today, and, it's a lot to digest. And I hope that the audience got something out of this too. And, folks, if you have any questions that you'd like to direct towards, towards our guest here, you can always send them over to me and I'll make sure that he gets them, or you could drop a comment down below in the comment section. And, if he decides to go back and watch the show at some other point, you can actually see the questions and we can talk about them another time.
If not, email them to me, [email protected], and I'll make sure that he gets them. Chris Baum. Baum? Baum. Baum. Baum. Thank you. Like palm.
[01:04:33] Unknown:
Right. Alright.
[01:04:35] Unknown:
God bless you, bro. Thank you. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. Alright, folks. Chris Baum. Alright. Podhome. Podhome.fm is the most modern and easy to use podcast hosting platform out there today. Use it to publish your episodes, enhance your audio, automatically generate transcript chapters, title show notes, and more. You can even podcast live through your own website with the with the player that they provide for you. Head over to podhome.fm today, get thirty days free when you sign up, and then it's only $15.99 a month. It's a great platform to be on folks. You really need to check them out, so please do. Podhome.fm has been my home platform for the audio for about two and a half almost three years now. And, it just keeps getting better and better and better. And Pod Home is about to launch an app, a player app, which is gonna be fantastic.
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Introduction and Show Overview
Discussion on Charlie Kirk Assassination
Guest Introduction: Christopher H. Baum
Challenges of Paper Ballots vs. Electronic Voting
VoteRight's Technology and Security Features
Implementation and Training for Electronic Voting Systems
Public Trust and Election Security
Closing Remarks and Future Discussions
