In this episode of the Tech for Climate Action podcast, we delve into the world of water sustainability with Hans Jurgen Kalmbach from Hansgrohe. Hansgrohe, a leader in premium bathroom and kitchen products, has been at the forefront of water conservation and climate change initiatives since the 1990s. Hans Jurgen shares insights into the company's innovative solutions that redefine daily rituals in the bathroom and kitchen, focusing on reducing water and energy consumption without compromising on user experience. From pioneering products like the Mistral Eco hand shower to the development of greywater recycling systems, Hansgrohe's commitment to sustainability is deeply embedded in its DNA, driven by a legacy of innovation and responsibility towards the environment.
Hans Jurgen discusses the company's approach to embracing the circular economy, reducing carbon emissions, and eliminating fossil fuels in their production processes. He highlights the importance of collaboration with policymakers and industry leaders to promote water resilience and energy-efficient products. The episode also explores Hansgrohe's vision for the future of bathroom culture, aiming to drastically reduce water usage while enhancing user experience. As the company continues to innovate, Hansgrohe sets an example for integrating sustainability into business strategy, proving that environmental responsibility can also be a competitive advantage.
[00:00:10]
Ralph Cochrane:
Welcome back to the Tech for Climate Action podcast. And this week, we're talking about all things water sustainability products in the bathroom, in the kitchen. And I'm delighted to have with me Hans Jurgen Kalmbach, who is from Hans Groi. Hans Jurgen, first of all, welcome. Can you just tell us a little bit about your company and the background? So first of all, Ralf, thank you very much for organizing our conversation.
[00:00:37] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. Hansgrohe is a company founded nineteen o one. So we are 24 years old, founded here in the Black Forest where I'm sitting. I'm thirty years in the company this year, so therefore, I have been part of the journey the last three decades. And as a company, we are one of the global leaders for premium bathroom and kitchen products. In fact, every day, millions of our consumers can meet the beauty of water in the bathroom and in the kitchen, for example, by taking a shower, washing themselves, relaxing, reinvigorating with our products, while we ensure that the water consumption is made in a responsible way. So our focus is the passion for water. We define the purpose as a company, what is life and our passion, we create inspiring moments with water while we protect this precious element. And this is the key topic of Hans Kuer. We are really very serious about this responsibility.
And since the nineties, we are addressing a lot of global challenges with water scarcity and with climate change. And, therefore, our mission is to redefine the daily rituals in the bathroom and in the kitchen by using innovative solutions to conserve water and conserve energy. We always say, for us, it's about water, human, and space, so therefore, we create innovative solutions that is used in the everyday of our consumers in the homes, as well as in the hotels, offices, sports facilities, etcetera. So, therefore, our products consume a lot of energy, a lot of water, and that's why since decades, responsibility for the environment is not a separate strategy in the company. It's integrated in what we do and, a central part of the innovation, the go to market, the communication strategy.
[00:02:30] Ralph Cochrane:
I found a fascinating part of your website earlier, which talked about some of the product innovations from the past. So the first hand shower with various spray types, the first pullout kitchen tap, and even the first shower rail, and also German engineering, great product design. But I'm also interested to understand why there is such a focus for you on climate change, on tech that can help with that battle. It seems to be a real part of your DNA, but why? Where did that come from?
[00:03:05] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Hans Gohr had, three sons. His youngest son, called Klaus Grohe, he was leading this company starting from the sixties, and he was actually one of the key drivers for creating a lot of innovations, bringing design into the bathroom, but also putting sustainability as a key part of our DNA in the company. And Klaus Grohe, that's Hans Grohe's younger son, he actually, already in the 90s, said that climate change is a pressing issue. One of his quotes, which we very often reuse, is in 1992, he said, Climate change is not a distant future, it's reality. Society must act on reducing CO2 emissions now. So, this, I would say, pioneering mindset from Klaus Gruen shaped a lot of our paths in the last forty, fifty years, when you started from the seventies, and a lot of these long term success of our company is part of our attitude, our mindset, and our belief that sustainability is a competitive advantage factor.
In 1987, we launched a product called Mistral Eco. This was a hand shower at that time that could save 50 percent of the water by using an environmental friendly spray to reduce the amount of water used. That's the first, I would say, eco conscious innovation we launched in the shower segment. We started to think about grey water recycling because even if you have an eco friendly shower, you use a lot of water in the shower, and you flush it down the drain. And Klaus's idea was why not using the water which you used in the shower twice for toilet flushing or for watering the garden? So based on that, we invented the Pontus gray water recycling system.
Certainly, in some areas, we have been too early in the development of innovations. The adoption was slow, but now we know that greywater recycling systems, water reuse systems, are becoming more and more important. In 02/2007, we launched this technology called EcoSmart that also helped to change the energy and water consumption by reducing the flow, changing the spray types of the hand showers to change the flow, or another technology we call Cool Start. When you think about the basin faucet, when you open the faucet, you typically open it in the warm water position. And for handwashing, often, you don't need warm or hot water. It's just cold water is good enough. So we changed the technology that we call Cool Start, where you open in the cold position, and you only use warm water when you need it by turning the handle.
A lot of innovations like this were really shaping our path, And still, I hear a lot of when I speak with journalists or with customers, why do we even need to invent new showers or new faucets? Maybe it's just a design change, but also the functionality change, the experience change, and a big driver of our innovation is really to reduce the consumption of water, of energy. So that's one of the key driver of innovation. That's why we developed five, six years ago an innovation lab that's focusing mostly on new technologies and sustainability solutions on energy consumption reduction or material substitution because the world has not only a water scarcity issue or, climate issue, we also have a shortage of resources, so therefore we try to address this topic, in our innovation strategy, as well as, what we call our Green Company initiative, so as a company, we also work very hard in order to put our energy consumption and our carbon emissions down on the product, on the factory side, on energy creation, packaging, and other things to really not only sell products that are energy efficient, but also behave as a company as a good role model to also reduce their emissions.
[00:07:12] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. It's fascinating the subtle changes there. The faucet or for the British in the audience, the tap, as we call it, just encouraging people to think about whether they really need warm water. It's just such a subtle change that can completely change the behavior and the use. So I I find that sort of product design really interesting. I wonder, are you seeing the same requirements from customers all around the globe? Is everybody worried about conserving water?
[00:07:44] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I would say around the globe, more demand on energy efficient products. It's more driven by the carbon emission and the energy use. That was, of course, driven a lot by energy price increases, not only in Europe, but across the globe, but we see also higher consciousness on water, that's why we work very hard on doing some public affair work, lobbying work, also in Brussels and in Berlin, to address this water scarcity topic more, because there are technological solutions, there are innovations where you're not giving up any comfort or experience with the product, but you can you can really use less water. And if you lose less water, you typically also use less energy. If you think about a shower, most of us are not showering with cold showers, so we use warm showers, and if you're not using renewable energy to heat your water, you have a lot of carbon emission. One of the biggest energy consumers in the home is really the bathroom and the shower, because of the warm water generation, so therefore, this topic is becoming more and more relevant, and we believe, as an industry leader, by making it also more prominent in the discussion with the policy makers, but also addressing this issue more with our consumers, that you don't need to give up anything.
We drive more conversion towards energy friendly products. And, just think about the toilet flushing. A lot of old toilets still flush with seven, eight, nine, 10 liters per minute, fresh drinking water, and that's not necessary anymore, so you can do four or five liter toilet flushing, or even reuse water for toilet flushing. I think a lot of people are not aware that they use so much water, And it's also an issue because the prices for water are very little in most of the geographies, which I think makes sense because water is a human right. But as water is so cheap and there is no progressive water pricing in a lot of geographies, high amount of water consumption is is not an issue because the prices are so little. And I think there are areas which policy makers need to rethink the water resilience, which is happening now, and we, as an industry, need to help in the building environment to promote more of these energy and water efficient products.
[00:10:13] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. And I think there are some examples where water prices have gone up. Certainly here in England, the problem is more to do with privatization of state owned assets. This is not a political statement, but it happened thirty five years ago. So to give you an idea, the typical bill for a customer per month is probably about a third of what they're spending on electricity they'll spend on water. So it's actually reasonably significant now, and there are a lot of water meters. There are a lot of things to encourage you to use less water, but it certainly is becoming something that's on the mind. It's it's not just good to do for the environment. It's also good to do for your own pocket because you're potentially saving money. I also noticed one of the threads of your company strategy was the circular economy.
[00:11:05] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit more about what you mean by that. We focus on three things. One is conserving water cycles, two is protecting the climate, and three is really embracing also circular economy. We spoke a lot about the water cycles, and as you said, most of our consumers still do not know how much water they consume in the shower. We all know how much petrol we are using when we drive the car or how much energy our EV is using, 400 kilometers of distance, but many of the customers don't know that they are potentially using forty, fifteen liters a minute when they take a shower. And so, therefore, working on technologies that make it easy to use less water or also working on solutions to indicate how much water is used, that's one thing. And when we use water, we also reduced the carbon emissions, so, therefore, developing technologies to save water, having water and energy efficient technologies in the products, faucets and showers, will help. The last topic, embracing circular economy, we focus more and more to develop durable, repairable, and recyclable products to also use less resources. We are replacing all plastics to be plastic free end of the year, and that means we have these air cushions and plastic bags that's being replaced with cardboards.
That will save us 312 tons of carbon by just changing the plastic. Or, as a company, we sell millions of showers. Sometimes in the production process, there are scratches after galvanization, and we throw it away, now we are recycling it, we have developed with a startup a new recycling machine for chromed plastic material, so there it's going to be grinded, and you can then reuse a granulate from plastic for injection molding. And, so we are using this recycled material then for what we call a planet edition shower, which is really reusing the material. We reuse also some of the brass, and we, in general, work really, very heavily on substituting materials. A lot of metal materials, brass is some major component we are using, has a weak carbon footprint, so, therefore, we look how much brass we do need to use, what alternatives you can use.
I think there, the innovations are going far from a material technology, and so, therefore, we try to be really at the front line to look for new opportunities to be innovative, but also to take care of the resources we are using.
[00:13:43] Ralph Cochrane:
I think you're also planning on eliminating fossil fuels, aren't you, from your German plants? So there's also a plan to use more renewables as well in your production.
[00:13:54] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. As part of the Green Company initiative, one topic is really to take to take out fossil fuel and fossil energy in the company. We decarbonized a lot in the last year, since 2022, All of our global sites production as well as sales sites are climate neutral. A lot of initiatives are needed. Here in the Black Forest, so we have a lot of hills. It's a nice environment, and on the hills, you see a lot of windmills. So, therefore, we work with a partner and energy provider to develop for us a wind farm, and we use the energy from Badenova. That's the energy provider here in the region. Our roofs still have some space for PV systems. We try to use every space on the roof for PV system to use solar energy, but we also work to reduce process heat. When you think about the plants like injection molding, where you heat up plastic, so there is a lot of heat that's lost, or in plating, when you do the chroming, there is a lot of heat used, and we worked the last couple of years on reusing this heat, for heating of the facility, for example, and we could really save about 50% of the consumption. That's helping from a cost basis, but it's also helping from a from a carbon footprint by challenging and questioning the way you do things. For example, here, we have, in the Black Forest, a big laboratory where we test products, and you test also when the product is, used with very hot water.
So, therefore, we need to heat up the energy a lot, the water a lot, for the laboratory, which we don't need for the office facilities, so therefore, the entire system was programmed to have very hot water, and now we changed the grid. We have, for the lab, a different grid than for the office, where you save 20% of the energy. I always say it's not a sprint, it's really a marathon, where you need to do a lot of small single steps to improve. As a company, you need to really be committed, be focused, put energy on driving this initiative. We have a green company board where we review and discuss a lot of these initiatives. We have a green fund where we say we support some of these initiatives that certainly have a longer return on investment, but it's important for the company. It's also good for the planet.
[00:16:13] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. I was gonna ask you how you inject that innovation. That's interesting, the green board. So I guess for you, there is a direct impact on your finances, on your profitability by being greener. If people listening to this, it doesn't have to be a tax on business, capitalism, whatever you wanna call it. You can actually implement great product design. You can change. You can innovate, and you can have a real positive impact on the planet as well.
[00:16:47] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. That's what we believe. Of course, you need to put a lot of efforts in. You need a team. You need the right mindset. And as I said, for us, being sustainable is not a strategic initiative, so it's in the DNA of the company, it's in our attitude, we believe it's the right thing to do, and it also creates competitive advantages. By selling products that are more efficient, it can help our customers to save energy and save money. We have a lot of customers, hotel owners, that are driven by green building standards, they need products that save energy, and some of our showers are paying back in half a year or even lower because of the reduced water and in particular energy use.
So therefore, it's for us a competitive topic, on the one hand, but also as the consciousness on sustainability topic is increasing, not just the younger generations, in all generations, So, therefore, we believe it's important for the future and will help us to differentiate ourselves from others.
[00:17:45] Ralph Cochrane:
Payback in half a year is a no brainer. That's incredible. When you compare that to a lot of solar PV, certainly in the home that people are considering, payback is typically seven to ten years depending on how big the implementation is.
[00:17:59] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Changing a hand shower, everyone can do by him or herself. The key topic, and that's a challenge we try to overcome, is a lot of consumers would say, don't turn down the water in my shower because I like my shower like it is, and energy efficient, water efficient showers still have a bad awareness because there are some showers out there, they don't function enough. So, therefore, you need to have the right spray design, the right streaming in the shower, in the engine of the product, so that you have a great spray, even by using 50% less water. That's why we do a lot of POS placements where we show a regular shower and an energy efficient shower, and it's hard to see a difference and to feel a difference.
And so, therefore, a lot of people need to really feel the product that they realize I'm not giving up any experience or comfort, but at the same time, I save money and I save emissions.
[00:18:54] Ralph Cochrane:
The usability side is fascinating because if I think back, the first time I used a rainfall shower, I thought that was incredible. But more recently, there are things like misting systems, which give you a different experience. So the cell, I suppose, to me, would be something like you're in the spa. It's a different experience. So just tell us a little bit about how some of the innovations that you've developed and how you've persuaded thinking to change. Because I'll be honest, I don't really think about the amount of water that is coming out of my shower.
I think about the experience. How do you persuade us consumers to change?
[00:19:36] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
We sell a lot of premium products, and the design must be great, but the experience is also part of the innovation, the design. When we have a large shower head that in the past had 25 liters, and we wanna do it now with 15 liters, to go down 50% of, of the amount. It needs to have a new technology that either has a new spray tab. We call one as powder rain. This is a very thin, very drenching spray. It uses a different technology that distributes the water better, so you you need less water for the same experience, and then we need to communicate it that way. Very often, in digital media, it's easier because you can show videos. You can explain that further. But the key is for consumers that upgrade their home, they need to really touch it, feel it, and they need to go to the point of sales and to the showroom. We, push a lot ourselves to have as many references of hotels as possible in the high end area, but also in the middle level hotels.
If you have a great shower, the shower place or the bathroom is one of the key experience parts of the hotel. So, therefore, having a good shower there and taking the experience home. I had a nice experience with my Hansgrohe shower from the hotel. So where can I get it? So that's one part of that. We also bring a lot of our business partners here to the Black Forest to experience it live. We have what we call a spray lab, so that's a big team. They do nothing else than develop, day by day, new sprays, new sprays to experience water better, to use less water, to have sprays that get the shampoo out of the hair better, to have boost function, to use more water when you need it, not constantly. There are a lot of innovative opportunities that can be done while still focusing on being efficient with the resources.
[00:21:30] Ralph Cochrane:
And you mentioned earlier about your work in Brussels and also Berlin and, I guess, elsewhere. What are you asking policymakers to do? What's the kind of big question for them that you want them to think about?
[00:21:45] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
First of all, the focus has been very much on climate and energy optimization, also in the building industry, but as I said, the world has a lot of challenges, and the buildings also have a lot of challenges. Water consumption, water scarcity is an issue. I think a lot of policymakers also realize that there is an issue with water, so, therefore, the water resilience strategy, and we now have a commissioner with Jessica Roswell that also takes care of water resilience. That's important, and we have been working very much in Brussels and in Berlin to address the topic of water. We work in different trade associations like Water Europe, like the VDMA, to address this topic of water and the impact on the energy.
In the end, you can say the households only use 12% of the overall drinking water consumption, because the most is in in the industry as well as in farming, but still the 11%, twelve % of homes can be brought down to seven, eight, or even lower percent. And a big part of the water consumption is the faucets and the showers in the bathroom. So, therefore, we try to convince to promote energy friendly products to ensure that water resilience will be part of the Building Energy Act. We promote technological developments. We promote also studies on different types of water, because at the moment, a lot of people flush drinking water to toilet, certainly not needed. You can use much more gray water recycling systems.
Also, in the shower, for some users, do you need the drinking water? Can you reuse your own shower water again? So that can be studied. There are solutions out there at the moment by regulatory. It's not possible, and, so therefore, we promote studying, we promote innovations, and the industry has solutions, and if the policy makers can address this topic even more, that will be helpful. Also, water labeling of products for electrical products, you see a lot of mandatory labels. We don't have a mandatory label. We are in the in the United Water Label, and we are promoting that we have a label also for our, products because in the end, it helps the consumer.
I know how much energy I use with my car, but a lot of consumers don't know how much water they use. And do I have now an efficient product or an inefficient product? That's typically not what's shown. Some of the consumers may look at it when you look in the detailed specs, but it's not that you have a green product or you have a yellow or red product.
[00:24:23] Ralph Cochrane:
Now it does occur to me that there isn't that sort of ranking system like the energy colors telling you how efficient your home is. When you think about where you are in the industry with the innovation that you're promoting, with the fight to combat climate change, what's the major challenge that you see at the moment? And, also, to end on a positive note, what's the major success that you're most proud of?
[00:24:50] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Let me start with our belief. So we will continue to develop technologies to save water, to save energy, but but two years ago, we said, let us think about a concept. What if we're not using 50% of the water, but 90% less water? And we stretched ourselves to create what we call the green vision beyond water or rethinking bathroom culture. So we created, like in the car industry, you could say a concept car for us, it's the concept bathroom, the bathroom of the future, and, when we thought about that, of course, we know, because showering is the major thing we are focusing on, so I'm always saying, I get the best idea on the shower when we develop a new product. So very often with the team, we stand under the shower and check the spray of the shower and discuss is it good, is it not good, etcetera.
But we all know that taking the shower has two major purposes. One is, of course, washing, cleaning, physical hygiene, the other one is also to really relax. I call it mental hygiene, so therefore the bathroom and the shower has different purposes, And so, therefore, usually, you're not wasting water when you do your washing. It's more when you relax under the shower and then take the five, ten minutes to reinvigorate and to relax. So, therefore, we said, what if we find solutions how we bring the water consumption down by 90%? Because if we reduce 90% water, it's 90% less energy and 90% less carbon. And, so we created this green vision. And we said, when you think about a big step, we said, then we maybe need to think about changes of how we use the bathroom. What are the rituals we do in the bathroom?
And we said the bathroom has two areas. One, we call the base. The base in the bathroom is for physical hygiene, so shower, the wash basin, the toilet. And the other area is what we call sphere, so it's for more for mental relaxation, where you use either the bathtub, and instead of using hundreds of liters of water in the bathtub, we said, why not changing it to, for example, a lounge chair, which has a multi sensory experience, but also with water by warm water spray and warm water steam to have this warm feeling in the bathroom for relaxation, but you use a few liters of water and not a hundred liters of water. And based on these ideas, we call it the green vision, which we introduced 2023.
We said a lot of ideas from this are now starting to be integrated in products. So that's our concept bathroom, which drives ideas for reuse of material, what could we do in order to make a shower not with seven, eight liters, but with two liters per minute. What are you giving up? And if it's just for physical hygiene, maybe you don't need to have a great relaxing spray because you have the relaxation with another product. Or in the toilet, we are really reusing the water from the shower directly, the water from the basin directly for toilet flushing after filtering it and after treating it. So that was for us a big success because we are considered as one of the innovation leader in our industry, and that's why we said we need to think about one or two steps ahead to create this future bathroom, and our steps are going towards that. So that's one of the key, I would say, the key successes for us, and this gives us the path.
The market has a lot of opportunities. The bathroom will become more important. We experienced that the last decades. The bathroom is becoming more a place that gets more decorative elements. It's more livable space than just a hygiene space. The awareness on sustainability is increasing. That's helping if this is a competitive focus for the company. And I would say also the good success is that we see more and more collaboration, a, in the industry with adjacent Florida categories to find solutions together. And also, as I said, on the policymaker side, I think the awareness on water and on energy helps to really drive innovations.
I'm always saying, in Germany, in particular, in Baden Wurttemberg, our state here, there are so many companies that focus on green tech, not just water tech, but green tech. The green tech space is bigger than the automotive space, a lot of people don't know that, and we have more green patents than a lot of other states in the world. So, therefore, there is a lot of innovation here, but there are challenges in the construction market. As in Europe, new housing is very slow right now. There is also renovation gap in Europe. A lot of people are not changing the bathroom. Some are easy changes, like the hand shower, but very often if you change the bathroom to something new, then you have a challenge with a shortage of skilled labor in the craftsmanship.
So therefore, that's a topic, and as I said, awareness on the value of water is a challenge. But as I said, we are not looking for anyone to do it. As an industry leader, we also have to be a good role model to drive things and do our work in order to create the awareness on this topic by ourselves. So, therefore, I'm always saying we can complain, but it's about us. We can create from every challenge, from every issue. We can create an opportunity, and that's what we are doing. We're trying every day to develop some new things to convince our customers and let them experience that great new innovations will help you, a, to have to comfort you. You have create some new experience as well as, save money and do something good for the environment.
[00:30:36] Ralph Cochrane:
I know you're supporting the tech for climate action event, which is sustainability in construction, which will be in Brussels. So I suppose in closing, for people going to that event, you've mentioned the innovation lab that you've got a couple of times. I also love this image of you all stood underneath a shower working out whether you like the new product. I think that should be in some of your corporate photography. But what message would you give to people who are going to this sustainability and construction event? Because you've mentioned some of the challenges, but as we all know, with every challenge, there are also opportunities. So I suppose in closing, what message would you give them?
[00:31:18] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I would say changing things is not something that can be done by one individual company or by one individual person. We all need to work together. In some cases, we are in competition, but finding new solutions is only possible if we all work together and exchange, support each other, and therefore this kind of activities, events, Ralph, will always help to exchange, to build a network, maybe to find common ground, what can be done differently, and maybe also convince together, if you are in an association, or a team, or you form a new group of companies that go after the same idea, so that we are more convincing for the policy makers to get help and to get focused on these things. So therefore, I really appreciate that you and the team is organizing this event, and this will be very helpful for the participants to learn more about what others are doing or what is possible. We look forward to welcoming you there in in Brussels.
[00:32:20] Ralph Cochrane:
But for now, Hans Joergen, thank you so much for coming on the Tech for Climate Action podcast. We look forward to seeing what products innovations you've got coming out in the near future. Thank you. Thank you very much for the conversation, Ralph.
Welcome back to the Tech for Climate Action podcast. And this week, we're talking about all things water sustainability products in the bathroom, in the kitchen. And I'm delighted to have with me Hans Jurgen Kalmbach, who is from Hans Groi. Hans Jurgen, first of all, welcome. Can you just tell us a little bit about your company and the background? So first of all, Ralf, thank you very much for organizing our conversation.
[00:00:37] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. Hansgrohe is a company founded nineteen o one. So we are 24 years old, founded here in the Black Forest where I'm sitting. I'm thirty years in the company this year, so therefore, I have been part of the journey the last three decades. And as a company, we are one of the global leaders for premium bathroom and kitchen products. In fact, every day, millions of our consumers can meet the beauty of water in the bathroom and in the kitchen, for example, by taking a shower, washing themselves, relaxing, reinvigorating with our products, while we ensure that the water consumption is made in a responsible way. So our focus is the passion for water. We define the purpose as a company, what is life and our passion, we create inspiring moments with water while we protect this precious element. And this is the key topic of Hans Kuer. We are really very serious about this responsibility.
And since the nineties, we are addressing a lot of global challenges with water scarcity and with climate change. And, therefore, our mission is to redefine the daily rituals in the bathroom and in the kitchen by using innovative solutions to conserve water and conserve energy. We always say, for us, it's about water, human, and space, so therefore, we create innovative solutions that is used in the everyday of our consumers in the homes, as well as in the hotels, offices, sports facilities, etcetera. So, therefore, our products consume a lot of energy, a lot of water, and that's why since decades, responsibility for the environment is not a separate strategy in the company. It's integrated in what we do and, a central part of the innovation, the go to market, the communication strategy.
[00:02:30] Ralph Cochrane:
I found a fascinating part of your website earlier, which talked about some of the product innovations from the past. So the first hand shower with various spray types, the first pullout kitchen tap, and even the first shower rail, and also German engineering, great product design. But I'm also interested to understand why there is such a focus for you on climate change, on tech that can help with that battle. It seems to be a real part of your DNA, but why? Where did that come from?
[00:03:05] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Hans Gohr had, three sons. His youngest son, called Klaus Grohe, he was leading this company starting from the sixties, and he was actually one of the key drivers for creating a lot of innovations, bringing design into the bathroom, but also putting sustainability as a key part of our DNA in the company. And Klaus Grohe, that's Hans Grohe's younger son, he actually, already in the 90s, said that climate change is a pressing issue. One of his quotes, which we very often reuse, is in 1992, he said, Climate change is not a distant future, it's reality. Society must act on reducing CO2 emissions now. So, this, I would say, pioneering mindset from Klaus Gruen shaped a lot of our paths in the last forty, fifty years, when you started from the seventies, and a lot of these long term success of our company is part of our attitude, our mindset, and our belief that sustainability is a competitive advantage factor.
In 1987, we launched a product called Mistral Eco. This was a hand shower at that time that could save 50 percent of the water by using an environmental friendly spray to reduce the amount of water used. That's the first, I would say, eco conscious innovation we launched in the shower segment. We started to think about grey water recycling because even if you have an eco friendly shower, you use a lot of water in the shower, and you flush it down the drain. And Klaus's idea was why not using the water which you used in the shower twice for toilet flushing or for watering the garden? So based on that, we invented the Pontus gray water recycling system.
Certainly, in some areas, we have been too early in the development of innovations. The adoption was slow, but now we know that greywater recycling systems, water reuse systems, are becoming more and more important. In 02/2007, we launched this technology called EcoSmart that also helped to change the energy and water consumption by reducing the flow, changing the spray types of the hand showers to change the flow, or another technology we call Cool Start. When you think about the basin faucet, when you open the faucet, you typically open it in the warm water position. And for handwashing, often, you don't need warm or hot water. It's just cold water is good enough. So we changed the technology that we call Cool Start, where you open in the cold position, and you only use warm water when you need it by turning the handle.
A lot of innovations like this were really shaping our path, And still, I hear a lot of when I speak with journalists or with customers, why do we even need to invent new showers or new faucets? Maybe it's just a design change, but also the functionality change, the experience change, and a big driver of our innovation is really to reduce the consumption of water, of energy. So that's one of the key driver of innovation. That's why we developed five, six years ago an innovation lab that's focusing mostly on new technologies and sustainability solutions on energy consumption reduction or material substitution because the world has not only a water scarcity issue or, climate issue, we also have a shortage of resources, so therefore we try to address this topic, in our innovation strategy, as well as, what we call our Green Company initiative, so as a company, we also work very hard in order to put our energy consumption and our carbon emissions down on the product, on the factory side, on energy creation, packaging, and other things to really not only sell products that are energy efficient, but also behave as a company as a good role model to also reduce their emissions.
[00:07:12] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. It's fascinating the subtle changes there. The faucet or for the British in the audience, the tap, as we call it, just encouraging people to think about whether they really need warm water. It's just such a subtle change that can completely change the behavior and the use. So I I find that sort of product design really interesting. I wonder, are you seeing the same requirements from customers all around the globe? Is everybody worried about conserving water?
[00:07:44] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I would say around the globe, more demand on energy efficient products. It's more driven by the carbon emission and the energy use. That was, of course, driven a lot by energy price increases, not only in Europe, but across the globe, but we see also higher consciousness on water, that's why we work very hard on doing some public affair work, lobbying work, also in Brussels and in Berlin, to address this water scarcity topic more, because there are technological solutions, there are innovations where you're not giving up any comfort or experience with the product, but you can you can really use less water. And if you lose less water, you typically also use less energy. If you think about a shower, most of us are not showering with cold showers, so we use warm showers, and if you're not using renewable energy to heat your water, you have a lot of carbon emission. One of the biggest energy consumers in the home is really the bathroom and the shower, because of the warm water generation, so therefore, this topic is becoming more and more relevant, and we believe, as an industry leader, by making it also more prominent in the discussion with the policy makers, but also addressing this issue more with our consumers, that you don't need to give up anything.
We drive more conversion towards energy friendly products. And, just think about the toilet flushing. A lot of old toilets still flush with seven, eight, nine, 10 liters per minute, fresh drinking water, and that's not necessary anymore, so you can do four or five liter toilet flushing, or even reuse water for toilet flushing. I think a lot of people are not aware that they use so much water, And it's also an issue because the prices for water are very little in most of the geographies, which I think makes sense because water is a human right. But as water is so cheap and there is no progressive water pricing in a lot of geographies, high amount of water consumption is is not an issue because the prices are so little. And I think there are areas which policy makers need to rethink the water resilience, which is happening now, and we, as an industry, need to help in the building environment to promote more of these energy and water efficient products.
[00:10:13] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. And I think there are some examples where water prices have gone up. Certainly here in England, the problem is more to do with privatization of state owned assets. This is not a political statement, but it happened thirty five years ago. So to give you an idea, the typical bill for a customer per month is probably about a third of what they're spending on electricity they'll spend on water. So it's actually reasonably significant now, and there are a lot of water meters. There are a lot of things to encourage you to use less water, but it certainly is becoming something that's on the mind. It's it's not just good to do for the environment. It's also good to do for your own pocket because you're potentially saving money. I also noticed one of the threads of your company strategy was the circular economy.
[00:11:05] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit more about what you mean by that. We focus on three things. One is conserving water cycles, two is protecting the climate, and three is really embracing also circular economy. We spoke a lot about the water cycles, and as you said, most of our consumers still do not know how much water they consume in the shower. We all know how much petrol we are using when we drive the car or how much energy our EV is using, 400 kilometers of distance, but many of the customers don't know that they are potentially using forty, fifteen liters a minute when they take a shower. And so, therefore, working on technologies that make it easy to use less water or also working on solutions to indicate how much water is used, that's one thing. And when we use water, we also reduced the carbon emissions, so, therefore, developing technologies to save water, having water and energy efficient technologies in the products, faucets and showers, will help. The last topic, embracing circular economy, we focus more and more to develop durable, repairable, and recyclable products to also use less resources. We are replacing all plastics to be plastic free end of the year, and that means we have these air cushions and plastic bags that's being replaced with cardboards.
That will save us 312 tons of carbon by just changing the plastic. Or, as a company, we sell millions of showers. Sometimes in the production process, there are scratches after galvanization, and we throw it away, now we are recycling it, we have developed with a startup a new recycling machine for chromed plastic material, so there it's going to be grinded, and you can then reuse a granulate from plastic for injection molding. And, so we are using this recycled material then for what we call a planet edition shower, which is really reusing the material. We reuse also some of the brass, and we, in general, work really, very heavily on substituting materials. A lot of metal materials, brass is some major component we are using, has a weak carbon footprint, so, therefore, we look how much brass we do need to use, what alternatives you can use.
I think there, the innovations are going far from a material technology, and so, therefore, we try to be really at the front line to look for new opportunities to be innovative, but also to take care of the resources we are using.
[00:13:43] Ralph Cochrane:
I think you're also planning on eliminating fossil fuels, aren't you, from your German plants? So there's also a plan to use more renewables as well in your production.
[00:13:54] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. As part of the Green Company initiative, one topic is really to take to take out fossil fuel and fossil energy in the company. We decarbonized a lot in the last year, since 2022, All of our global sites production as well as sales sites are climate neutral. A lot of initiatives are needed. Here in the Black Forest, so we have a lot of hills. It's a nice environment, and on the hills, you see a lot of windmills. So, therefore, we work with a partner and energy provider to develop for us a wind farm, and we use the energy from Badenova. That's the energy provider here in the region. Our roofs still have some space for PV systems. We try to use every space on the roof for PV system to use solar energy, but we also work to reduce process heat. When you think about the plants like injection molding, where you heat up plastic, so there is a lot of heat that's lost, or in plating, when you do the chroming, there is a lot of heat used, and we worked the last couple of years on reusing this heat, for heating of the facility, for example, and we could really save about 50% of the consumption. That's helping from a cost basis, but it's also helping from a from a carbon footprint by challenging and questioning the way you do things. For example, here, we have, in the Black Forest, a big laboratory where we test products, and you test also when the product is, used with very hot water.
So, therefore, we need to heat up the energy a lot, the water a lot, for the laboratory, which we don't need for the office facilities, so therefore, the entire system was programmed to have very hot water, and now we changed the grid. We have, for the lab, a different grid than for the office, where you save 20% of the energy. I always say it's not a sprint, it's really a marathon, where you need to do a lot of small single steps to improve. As a company, you need to really be committed, be focused, put energy on driving this initiative. We have a green company board where we review and discuss a lot of these initiatives. We have a green fund where we say we support some of these initiatives that certainly have a longer return on investment, but it's important for the company. It's also good for the planet.
[00:16:13] Ralph Cochrane:
Yeah. I was gonna ask you how you inject that innovation. That's interesting, the green board. So I guess for you, there is a direct impact on your finances, on your profitability by being greener. If people listening to this, it doesn't have to be a tax on business, capitalism, whatever you wanna call it. You can actually implement great product design. You can change. You can innovate, and you can have a real positive impact on the planet as well.
[00:16:47] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Yeah. That's what we believe. Of course, you need to put a lot of efforts in. You need a team. You need the right mindset. And as I said, for us, being sustainable is not a strategic initiative, so it's in the DNA of the company, it's in our attitude, we believe it's the right thing to do, and it also creates competitive advantages. By selling products that are more efficient, it can help our customers to save energy and save money. We have a lot of customers, hotel owners, that are driven by green building standards, they need products that save energy, and some of our showers are paying back in half a year or even lower because of the reduced water and in particular energy use.
So therefore, it's for us a competitive topic, on the one hand, but also as the consciousness on sustainability topic is increasing, not just the younger generations, in all generations, So, therefore, we believe it's important for the future and will help us to differentiate ourselves from others.
[00:17:45] Ralph Cochrane:
Payback in half a year is a no brainer. That's incredible. When you compare that to a lot of solar PV, certainly in the home that people are considering, payback is typically seven to ten years depending on how big the implementation is.
[00:17:59] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Changing a hand shower, everyone can do by him or herself. The key topic, and that's a challenge we try to overcome, is a lot of consumers would say, don't turn down the water in my shower because I like my shower like it is, and energy efficient, water efficient showers still have a bad awareness because there are some showers out there, they don't function enough. So, therefore, you need to have the right spray design, the right streaming in the shower, in the engine of the product, so that you have a great spray, even by using 50% less water. That's why we do a lot of POS placements where we show a regular shower and an energy efficient shower, and it's hard to see a difference and to feel a difference.
And so, therefore, a lot of people need to really feel the product that they realize I'm not giving up any experience or comfort, but at the same time, I save money and I save emissions.
[00:18:54] Ralph Cochrane:
The usability side is fascinating because if I think back, the first time I used a rainfall shower, I thought that was incredible. But more recently, there are things like misting systems, which give you a different experience. So the cell, I suppose, to me, would be something like you're in the spa. It's a different experience. So just tell us a little bit about how some of the innovations that you've developed and how you've persuaded thinking to change. Because I'll be honest, I don't really think about the amount of water that is coming out of my shower.
I think about the experience. How do you persuade us consumers to change?
[00:19:36] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
We sell a lot of premium products, and the design must be great, but the experience is also part of the innovation, the design. When we have a large shower head that in the past had 25 liters, and we wanna do it now with 15 liters, to go down 50% of, of the amount. It needs to have a new technology that either has a new spray tab. We call one as powder rain. This is a very thin, very drenching spray. It uses a different technology that distributes the water better, so you you need less water for the same experience, and then we need to communicate it that way. Very often, in digital media, it's easier because you can show videos. You can explain that further. But the key is for consumers that upgrade their home, they need to really touch it, feel it, and they need to go to the point of sales and to the showroom. We, push a lot ourselves to have as many references of hotels as possible in the high end area, but also in the middle level hotels.
If you have a great shower, the shower place or the bathroom is one of the key experience parts of the hotel. So, therefore, having a good shower there and taking the experience home. I had a nice experience with my Hansgrohe shower from the hotel. So where can I get it? So that's one part of that. We also bring a lot of our business partners here to the Black Forest to experience it live. We have what we call a spray lab, so that's a big team. They do nothing else than develop, day by day, new sprays, new sprays to experience water better, to use less water, to have sprays that get the shampoo out of the hair better, to have boost function, to use more water when you need it, not constantly. There are a lot of innovative opportunities that can be done while still focusing on being efficient with the resources.
[00:21:30] Ralph Cochrane:
And you mentioned earlier about your work in Brussels and also Berlin and, I guess, elsewhere. What are you asking policymakers to do? What's the kind of big question for them that you want them to think about?
[00:21:45] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
First of all, the focus has been very much on climate and energy optimization, also in the building industry, but as I said, the world has a lot of challenges, and the buildings also have a lot of challenges. Water consumption, water scarcity is an issue. I think a lot of policymakers also realize that there is an issue with water, so, therefore, the water resilience strategy, and we now have a commissioner with Jessica Roswell that also takes care of water resilience. That's important, and we have been working very much in Brussels and in Berlin to address the topic of water. We work in different trade associations like Water Europe, like the VDMA, to address this topic of water and the impact on the energy.
In the end, you can say the households only use 12% of the overall drinking water consumption, because the most is in in the industry as well as in farming, but still the 11%, twelve % of homes can be brought down to seven, eight, or even lower percent. And a big part of the water consumption is the faucets and the showers in the bathroom. So, therefore, we try to convince to promote energy friendly products to ensure that water resilience will be part of the Building Energy Act. We promote technological developments. We promote also studies on different types of water, because at the moment, a lot of people flush drinking water to toilet, certainly not needed. You can use much more gray water recycling systems.
Also, in the shower, for some users, do you need the drinking water? Can you reuse your own shower water again? So that can be studied. There are solutions out there at the moment by regulatory. It's not possible, and, so therefore, we promote studying, we promote innovations, and the industry has solutions, and if the policy makers can address this topic even more, that will be helpful. Also, water labeling of products for electrical products, you see a lot of mandatory labels. We don't have a mandatory label. We are in the in the United Water Label, and we are promoting that we have a label also for our, products because in the end, it helps the consumer.
I know how much energy I use with my car, but a lot of consumers don't know how much water they use. And do I have now an efficient product or an inefficient product? That's typically not what's shown. Some of the consumers may look at it when you look in the detailed specs, but it's not that you have a green product or you have a yellow or red product.
[00:24:23] Ralph Cochrane:
Now it does occur to me that there isn't that sort of ranking system like the energy colors telling you how efficient your home is. When you think about where you are in the industry with the innovation that you're promoting, with the fight to combat climate change, what's the major challenge that you see at the moment? And, also, to end on a positive note, what's the major success that you're most proud of?
[00:24:50] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
Let me start with our belief. So we will continue to develop technologies to save water, to save energy, but but two years ago, we said, let us think about a concept. What if we're not using 50% of the water, but 90% less water? And we stretched ourselves to create what we call the green vision beyond water or rethinking bathroom culture. So we created, like in the car industry, you could say a concept car for us, it's the concept bathroom, the bathroom of the future, and, when we thought about that, of course, we know, because showering is the major thing we are focusing on, so I'm always saying, I get the best idea on the shower when we develop a new product. So very often with the team, we stand under the shower and check the spray of the shower and discuss is it good, is it not good, etcetera.
But we all know that taking the shower has two major purposes. One is, of course, washing, cleaning, physical hygiene, the other one is also to really relax. I call it mental hygiene, so therefore the bathroom and the shower has different purposes, And so, therefore, usually, you're not wasting water when you do your washing. It's more when you relax under the shower and then take the five, ten minutes to reinvigorate and to relax. So, therefore, we said, what if we find solutions how we bring the water consumption down by 90%? Because if we reduce 90% water, it's 90% less energy and 90% less carbon. And, so we created this green vision. And we said, when you think about a big step, we said, then we maybe need to think about changes of how we use the bathroom. What are the rituals we do in the bathroom?
And we said the bathroom has two areas. One, we call the base. The base in the bathroom is for physical hygiene, so shower, the wash basin, the toilet. And the other area is what we call sphere, so it's for more for mental relaxation, where you use either the bathtub, and instead of using hundreds of liters of water in the bathtub, we said, why not changing it to, for example, a lounge chair, which has a multi sensory experience, but also with water by warm water spray and warm water steam to have this warm feeling in the bathroom for relaxation, but you use a few liters of water and not a hundred liters of water. And based on these ideas, we call it the green vision, which we introduced 2023.
We said a lot of ideas from this are now starting to be integrated in products. So that's our concept bathroom, which drives ideas for reuse of material, what could we do in order to make a shower not with seven, eight liters, but with two liters per minute. What are you giving up? And if it's just for physical hygiene, maybe you don't need to have a great relaxing spray because you have the relaxation with another product. Or in the toilet, we are really reusing the water from the shower directly, the water from the basin directly for toilet flushing after filtering it and after treating it. So that was for us a big success because we are considered as one of the innovation leader in our industry, and that's why we said we need to think about one or two steps ahead to create this future bathroom, and our steps are going towards that. So that's one of the key, I would say, the key successes for us, and this gives us the path.
The market has a lot of opportunities. The bathroom will become more important. We experienced that the last decades. The bathroom is becoming more a place that gets more decorative elements. It's more livable space than just a hygiene space. The awareness on sustainability is increasing. That's helping if this is a competitive focus for the company. And I would say also the good success is that we see more and more collaboration, a, in the industry with adjacent Florida categories to find solutions together. And also, as I said, on the policymaker side, I think the awareness on water and on energy helps to really drive innovations.
I'm always saying, in Germany, in particular, in Baden Wurttemberg, our state here, there are so many companies that focus on green tech, not just water tech, but green tech. The green tech space is bigger than the automotive space, a lot of people don't know that, and we have more green patents than a lot of other states in the world. So, therefore, there is a lot of innovation here, but there are challenges in the construction market. As in Europe, new housing is very slow right now. There is also renovation gap in Europe. A lot of people are not changing the bathroom. Some are easy changes, like the hand shower, but very often if you change the bathroom to something new, then you have a challenge with a shortage of skilled labor in the craftsmanship.
So therefore, that's a topic, and as I said, awareness on the value of water is a challenge. But as I said, we are not looking for anyone to do it. As an industry leader, we also have to be a good role model to drive things and do our work in order to create the awareness on this topic by ourselves. So, therefore, I'm always saying we can complain, but it's about us. We can create from every challenge, from every issue. We can create an opportunity, and that's what we are doing. We're trying every day to develop some new things to convince our customers and let them experience that great new innovations will help you, a, to have to comfort you. You have create some new experience as well as, save money and do something good for the environment.
[00:30:36] Ralph Cochrane:
I know you're supporting the tech for climate action event, which is sustainability in construction, which will be in Brussels. So I suppose in closing, for people going to that event, you've mentioned the innovation lab that you've got a couple of times. I also love this image of you all stood underneath a shower working out whether you like the new product. I think that should be in some of your corporate photography. But what message would you give to people who are going to this sustainability and construction event? Because you've mentioned some of the challenges, but as we all know, with every challenge, there are also opportunities. So I suppose in closing, what message would you give them?
[00:31:18] Hans Jurgen Kalmbach:
I would say changing things is not something that can be done by one individual company or by one individual person. We all need to work together. In some cases, we are in competition, but finding new solutions is only possible if we all work together and exchange, support each other, and therefore this kind of activities, events, Ralph, will always help to exchange, to build a network, maybe to find common ground, what can be done differently, and maybe also convince together, if you are in an association, or a team, or you form a new group of companies that go after the same idea, so that we are more convincing for the policy makers to get help and to get focused on these things. So therefore, I really appreciate that you and the team is organizing this event, and this will be very helpful for the participants to learn more about what others are doing or what is possible. We look forward to welcoming you there in in Brussels.
[00:32:20] Ralph Cochrane:
But for now, Hans Joergen, thank you so much for coming on the Tech for Climate Action podcast. We look forward to seeing what products innovations you've got coming out in the near future. Thank you. Thank you very much for the conversation, Ralph.
Introduction to Water Sustainability
Hansgrohe's Legacy and Mission
Innovations in Water Conservation
Global Demand for Energy Efficient Products
Circular Economy and Material Innovation
Decarbonising Production and Renewable Energy
Sustainability as a Competitive Advantage
Policy Advocacy for Water Resilience
Challenges and Successes in Innovation
Collaboration for Sustainable Construction
