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Recorded May 3, 2025 - 895043

Still Early? Why Bitcoin Will Start Wars On Mars! (Seriously)

The face of Business Cat: Chai 2006 - 2025

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[00:00:03] Unknown:

Well, well, well, what a surprise.   You have found yourself   right back here at the rock paper bitcoin podcast.   Welcome back, my friend.   Goodness,   goodness gracious. Has it   been it's been two weeks, and so it's time again   for the show.   So you know the drill.   If you've been, enjoying   this content, you can stream us   with any podcasting   podcasting   two point zero enabled application.   Something like fountain,   something like Podverse,   I have a link in the show notes. Notes. You can click that if you're interested in learning more. There's all kinds of options available. Yeah. Pick us that amount. Zap it our direction. You can leave us a comment with a boostagram. We'd love to hear from you. We also have the Telegram channel that is there for talking with us   as well. There's it's been pretty active lately. So if you're not in there, jump in.  

My friends,   thank you for coming back. Thank you for being here.   And if it if it's your first time, welcome.   You didn't come back at all. You are a virginal experience. And for that,   I don't know if I envy you, but hey, welcome.   Let's get into it.   Hey.   Hello, friends. Hey. How's it going? Okay. Tell me about what is what is this hotel that we met at? So so folks, this is   The we're very close to the two year anniversary of when we started the show. The first episode was on May, I believe. This is gonna be a cut a clip show of all of our anniversaries   that we This is not going to be the the the end of Seinfeld. Don't worry. I hate flip shows. Oh, really? So we're not gonna have, like, the Green Day song?  



[00:01:56] Unknown:

You know, it's, very reminiscent. But okay. So we we were just talking before we started recording. What what is the hotel we met at? So we met, like Okay. Two months because we were talking about when when this podcast started and Right. Business guy saying with two year anniversary, I was like, there's no way because we were talking about, like, Silicon Valley Bank and things like that. But we might not have we might not have aired it. We might not have, like,   put it on the RSS until   May, but   I counted as the day we met. Not the day we met, but today we decided to do this where we met at a,   we met at a place, very special place in, Lititz, Pennsylvania that I would say is no longer relevant, but was very relevant at the time. I don't remember. Were you buying a s nine from me? Is that what we were doing there? I was actually selling you mine. Okay. My last one. I I we we had gotten over the, like, the $1,500   electric bill   that, caused   caused a lot of problems   in my family.  



[00:02:51] Unknown:

And Every every Bitcoin miner has that moment.  

[00:02:54] Unknown:

Yeah. Right? So, of course, business guy's like, oh, actually, no. You were taking a friend of mine to miner.  

[00:02:59] Unknown:

My coworker had Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But we met in the parking lot, and that like, I remember the meeting because we had a conversation at the meeting, not because there was a miner exchange.  

[00:03:07] Unknown:

Right. It was pile of snow, but we were yeah. We met and just said, you know,   I'm kinda thinking of doing a podcast, and you're you said that. And I said, oh my god. I've been having, like, those thoughts for a while too. We should maybe kinda,   you know, maybe put our heads together. Right? I had been, like, I had  

[00:03:25] Unknown:

been trying to kind of put a show together for a for several months that's at that point. But, yeah, I so I had I had   I had my, let's say, nose to the ground looking for,   some kind of a cohost who was interested in talking and had interesting interesting things to say, and you you stood out pretty quickly from the first meeting. It's like, oh, yeah. Alright. Right. Let's see what we for a couple of months. I had been going to your meetup now for several consecutive months traveling  

[00:03:51] Unknown:

but quite a distance,   but yet still going and, you know, having all the loving it. Having all this energy.  

[00:03:58] Unknown:

Right? So I think question of, yeah, are we in early days? It's like, oh, yeah. We are in early enough days that whenever somebody like you gets into Bitcoin, you're willing to drive for hours  

[00:04:07] Unknown:

because there's no meetups in the like, I I've gotta go meet the people in the area. Yeah. This is before I started my meetup, and, you know, I didn't even I didn't really know about   Lancaster   yet.   I might have known Chadrack, but I didn't know about his meetup.   Not really sure.   So but the location we met at was,   in it's called Rock Lititz, Pennsylvania. It's very it's it's a special location, and I was telling you that I have met up with many of our friends there.   There's a there's a guitar story that I talked about on the Phish podcast called Tome Tailors.   And that area exists, believe it or not. If you if you have a mental image of where you met me, you know, there was you know, there was, like, a hotel and then there were a bunch of, like, big buildings.  

That that was the,   it was basically a bunch of sound stages where big like, really big acts   would would   travel to this area   and build their sound stages and rehearse and, you know,   you know, acts like Lady Gaga.   You know, people on that level are building, like like, an arena   soundstage   in these big buildings in this complex. And so what we met at this hotel, which is where these   people and the roadies and all the people that work for the bands would stay at for the month that they decided to do all this. Right?   That's what this little location was for. It also happens to be that,   Phish was a big customer here. And the reason the guitar store even existed the guitar store was once in, like, the proper town of Lancaster, which is, like, a half hour away. Mhmm. But they moved to this area because they were, building they were rebuilding Trey Anastasio's   guitar rig, his, like, his effects rig. They're rebuilding the whole thing, custom audio, and,   Fish was a big customer out here. And,   it turned out like, we met in January.  

We met we met at this particular meeting in January of   twenty   three 02/2023.   Right?   But in New Year's of twenty twenty one,   Phish was supposed to play at Madison Square Garden for their four night, you know, for their four night run-in   that they do every year.   But because of the, you know, insanity,   it it was canceled. It was actually like, their New Year's show was like, they couldn't do it because New York decided it was too dangerous. Right? Omicron virus was so what did Phish do?   They did something pretty incredible. They were like, well, let's go down to this let's go down to let's go down to Rockwood,   and we'll play there, and we'll just web stream it to the world.  

And that's how every and then everyone can watch our show, and they did they casted it for free. Is this area still used for is it, like, a big recording area? It's it was. And so Phish affectionately called it the Ninth Cube for some reason. Nobody really knows why. But, we all call it the Ninth Cube. It's this big it was this big building next to the hotel we met at.   And Phish was the last customer of this place, really, and they just recently decided to start doing this somewhere   in Missouri.   Oh, okay. So So it's dying. It's dying. Yes. And, like, I think actually for for my guitar store, they fish with the nail in the coffin.   And it is what it is. And so now we, I met Baseload last week at the new location of the guitar store in in,   Lancaster.  

It was a good old time. We got some stories. But It's a good halfway location between out on the East Coast Of PA and, Central PA where we're at. Yeah. So it's right. But you Anybody who came to Pub Key and, like, you know, watched this jam, like, now we have a place to meet, and we can actually for like, they're so they're they're totally cool with base and I sitting there for hours and just jamming in the middle of the store with all their great like, they have, like, incredible,   incredible stuff. Like, there's a big thing in guitar in the guitar world where, like, the big box stores, they don't they don't display anything any of the good guitars anymore.   So, like, they only display, like, the   guitars built in Indonesia   by, like because people come in and say, hey. Let me try playing that. So, like, okay. No. We're just gonna put up the crap. It used to be you could go into, like, a guitar center, and you can go play Les Paul or, you know, you could play a guitar that today would cost $34,000,   but then they're like, no. We can't let the animals touch these things. But a tone tailors, holy crap. Like, their their stuff is like, they have amazing guitars. So, like, I'm I'm there just trying the stuff out and the great amps. You just plug in the middle of the store, and me and bass are just jamming,   and they're loving it. So we have now yeah. We have a place now that we can meet to,  

[00:08:56] Unknown:

to do this. It's been years since I played drums, but, I mean, I was a drummer for years and years. I I was in garage bands. I had I had my own set. So, like, it's but I'm on set now. So, like, at some point,   I I think we'll I'll I'll have to,   shake off the rust and try try jamming out with you guys a little bit. It's very interesting because okay. I forgot you were a drummer. And  

[00:09:17] Unknown:

for Bass's big birthday show at Pub Key,   June twelfth,   he was asking me, do I know a drummer?   And I didn't think of you. I thought of my other this is gonna sound horrible, but at my other podcast partner for the Fish podcast,   shout out, Jason.   I know he's a drummer. I don't know I don't know anything about him as a drummer other than the fact that we do a fish podcast together and we have a shared musical sensibility. Well, you should use him because I'll be at the beach that week.   There you go. Well yeah. So we're gonna be jamming right before the John.   I don't know when this is gonna get released, but the Bitcoin John we're gonna have on Monday is gonna be really awesome because Rob Hamilton's coming. Rob and Evan Kaludis are doing a bit devs. It's gonna be awesome.  

I remember when the Bitcoin John started,   I was immediately asking them, can we get a BitDevs? And they're like, no. Philly's way too stupid and retarded. They would they're we can't have a BitDevs here. Accurate. Yes. I mean, I agree with their conclusion.   But they were wrong. They were objectively wrong because we've had two, and we're about to have a third. You know, we we have one every year, and they're great.  

[00:10:20] Unknown:

Well, it's like having an Amish meeting in,   like, Hong Kong. It's like, you're right. You can have the meeting. It's like, it's not gonna be super, like, a lot of like, people are gonna show up to out of curiosity, not a lot of Amish folks are gonna show up. It's not like the it's not like a bunch of Eagle fans are showing up to these bit devs and causing a ruckus. You know? These meet we've had two, and they've been fantastic. I don't know. I I just default into my hatred of cities, and it's just like nothing good can come out of urban Well, the best bit devs aren't in cities. I mean, they the best ones came out of New York and San Francisco. I mean, I'm not gonna argue that good things don't come out of cities. It's just like I think it's not for me. Like, talking about the idea of recording,   like so okay. So rec there's this giant recording   setup out, like, in in a satellite location out in, like, the Liditz area outside of Lancaster, and now it's dying. That feels like a microcosm of a lot of areas of the economy right now. It's like there's areas that people   built empires thinking that they're like, the the Marvel take take the Marvel movies, for example. Like, I was just reading on the Wall Street Journal this morning about how the Marvel empire is collapsing because audience tastes have shifted.  



[00:11:29] Unknown:

Well yeah. I mean, you know what the problem was? It's   like, it's not that there was nothing wrong with Marvel. It's that the world around it decided it shouldn't exist and that only Marvel should exist.   So,   you know, they built a giant moat where they just eliminated. It's like they deleted every other movie that's not a Marvel movie. So, like, Marvel is just going along doing what it's doing,  

[00:11:50] Unknown:

becoming an empire. They dug their grave, and now they have now now what are they gonna do? Try to climb out of it? Right?   And I I don't wanna get sidetracked talking about Marvel movies. Well, I mean,  

[00:12:01] Unknown:

they they this is what happens when they hyper inflated the supply of Marvel,   especially relative to everything else. Right?  

[00:12:09] Unknown:

Yeah. Right? And the market.  

[00:12:12] Unknown:

And people are, like, sick of it. It's not different from, like, the woke stuff and all that other stuff. It's like people are just kinda sick of it. Like, I need a break.   Can I, you know, could I just I mean, I'd rather watch nothing? I'd literally rather just   watch math videos   on YouTube   for the next couple of years than have to go to the movies and endure another Marvel movie shoving   cultural  

[00:12:35] Unknown:

contrived cultural references down my throat. I was thinking about, like, you know, the Muppets? Like, the idea of, like, the Muppet show where it's, like, you go to, like I mean, the theater is part of, like, the production. It's not like that's an actual live audience. But, like, that idea of being a live audience and go going to a show where, like, you're there, like, the whole night and they're gonna put on a giant production to entertain you. And it's like,   now that has to compete with my smartphone and the Internet, and it's like, it doesn't surprise me that that kind of venue just you you can't get people into them theaters anymore, like, movie theaters. If there was, like, a live   a live kind of show like the Muppets, if that was a real thing, I don't think it would last very long. It's like, you sure when it's new or if they had a couple shows, it might be   interesting enough to pull in an audience, but just like every the the the decentralization of entertainment   is just everything's compete like, we are competing. Like, you're in my right now. This conversation is competing with some audience member out there with the more attention for the marbles. Like, they this time that they're listening to our podcast could have been put to, like, going to the theater and watching a Marvel movie. But it's just there's so many avenues of entertainment now that, like,  

[00:13:38] Unknown:

these yeah. Things like the Marvel We're gonna be there. Like, we're we'll be there when these people get sick of Marvel, and they'll just be, like, start looking for podcasts to learn about life. Well, it's yeah. It I But, like, I remember I would say, like, I remember as a little kid when the Muppet Show, like, started. It was   like, what a phenomenon. Like, you have to like, it was incredible. I just I I think I was, like, four or five years old. It's like one of my first memories, but it was like a gigantic event where we went to a neighbor's house   to watch it. And,   you know, it was one of those incredible things. And, you know, just not to keep talking about fish shows and everything like that, but it's but it's one of the things that everybody notices. The band notices it. Employees of the, venue always talk about how they can't believe nobody's, like, on their phones   during these shows. It's, like, one of the last   remaining things   that people show up to to consume and give their and give their attention to without, like, being stuck on their phones.  



[00:14:39] Unknown:

Yeah. Having other yeah. Right. Choosing to lock into   a   entertainment product and then not not go outside. My wife and I are watching all the extended editions of Lord of the Rings right now, and   it's like there's slow bits where I am tempted to pull up my phone and just browse, but, like, I've been conscious of that. Like, no. I'm choosing to consume Lord of the Rings right now. I don't wanna be looking at Twitter while I'm watching this.  

[00:15:01] Unknown:

Yeah. And that's why I I like, again, I mean, music is still valuable for that reason, and I think sports are pretty are still valuable for that reason.   As much as people love to shit on sports, I like to shit on people who shit on sports because Well, music is a audio content is a super valuable area of entertainment. It's like it's Live music. I mean, lie but I really also mean, like, live the the experience of live music. So you have live music,   live comedy,   and live sports are things that   can actually,   consume your attention,   right, without   without the distraction.  



[00:15:40] Unknown:

It's interesting that   keep a full mind to it. Audio content as an entertainment form, though, is, like, is something is   fundamentally different than other forms of content. Like like live music or, like, me watching Lord of the Rings. Like, I am locked in. I can't do anything else. Like, with audio content, though, it's you have the opportunity   to be consuming   like,   teleporting your brain into somebody else's body and consuming their thoughts while you do something else, like, while I wash the dishes or while I True. Do all the lawn work. And that's some that's a value in audio only entertainment that I don't think I I mean, I'm sure some people That's why I don't do audiobooks. I don't read books on audio for that. Like, it's it's not it's  

[00:16:21] Unknown:

not specifically for that reason,   but   it's more like I discover that I'm not   really,   getting to the place I would get to when I norm when I read it, a physical book. It's not the same. That's for sure. I think it's not and then maybe because I do get distracted. It's not because I'm picking up my phone. Sometimes I am picking up my phone and doing other things thinking I can do that, but, like,   it doesn't make the same   you know, audio only content doesn't I I think that podcasts are the perfect   invention for audio only con like, a long form conversation.   And,   like, a book, I'll just say, I don't need to spend my time listening to this. I'll just read the book. Okay? Right? But, like, a conversation   between a couple of people. Like, I've recently   been marathoning   the, the reorg with Pierre Richard and Bistein.  

So   it's like they they just put out, I don't know, 10 or 11 episodes. This is a conversation where they're actual I mean, they are reading they're reading old papers, but they're having conversation about it. Like, I wanna listen to this conversation.   So I'm, like, not,   you know, I'm not on my phone   or   doing other things or even watching TV while I'm I'm intently   listening to the conversation. And I think conversations between intelligent people are the thing. That's the content where podcasts it's podcast audio,   audio only mediums meant for   you know, really meant for that.  



[00:17:51] Unknown:

Yeah. My wife and I have really been wanting to expose our daughter to audio content, like like Charlotte's Web and all, like, the all these different stories that, like, she can't read yet. She has pictures book. Like, she likes going through picture books, but we were my my sister-in-law   used to work for NPR.   And for my daughter's birthday recently, she bought I guess not recently, but last year, she bought us this thing, which is called a Yoto. It's like so for for audio listeners, this is a little like, it's like a two inch two inch by two inch box, and it's got a tiny little screen on it. It's got a speaker, and it's got two two giant red Yeah. Red knobbies.  

[00:18:25] Unknown:

It looks like an NES controller for handy for, like, handicapped  

[00:18:29] Unknown:

people. Yeah. It's very very simple. Primary colors. It's got rounded corner. It's a it's a device made for children.   USB c, it's a it's great. It connects to your local Wi Fi network. But what it does is it's got a it's got a slot in the top which accepts cards.   And these cards, like, I'm I'm holding, like, the Encanto card right now. I'm gonna slide it in, and it   and immediately starts playing the content. It's like a View Master. Old you know, those old view masters for audio. It's like a view that's a great way. That's a great analogy.   But, like, what this what's this thing is? Okay. It has a tiny screen on it, which has the time, but it's it's effectively it's a screen less device. This screen is not you can't play games on it. All it shows is, like, the numb the number of the track you're playing and may and a little graphic. So, like, if I'm playing Raffi music, it'll it'll show, like, a little banana for the, like, the banana phone song. But what this is this is a it's a smart it's not a smart device, but it's an audio playing device for children. It's a screenless advertisement free way that we can expose our daughter to audio content. And, like, so we can, like, once she goes ask you something. Yeah. Sorry. It doesn't cut you off. Let me ask you a question. This is maybe  

[00:19:34] Unknown:

the wrong question right now. So feel free   to feel free to pass on it.   What do we know   in terms of childhood development about whether or not even like, why why is audio only something we want children to experience?  

[00:19:50] Unknown:

I guess, is the question. I don't know the answer to that. Why do I want it personally? Because I want my daughter to grow up to be a podcast listener. As a podcaster,   I want my daughter to be, like, trained from a young age before she has a smart like, a smartphone has Did you have this as a kid? No. This is the new thing. With Cassie, and you became a pod you became a prolific podcast listener. So what I had growing up was my parents had a   a speaker system in our house that was, like, they could put music on. They they had a cassette player and a and a record player downstairs, and you could choose where to play the audio. And so, like, normally, we just play audio in the house. But when my brother and I would go to bed, my mom would put on audio tapes for us upstairs. And we had one speaker in our room upstairs, and she would, like I think they do, like, left and right audio. They would just, like, if they turned it to only left audio, it would only play upstairs. I forget. Anyway, it's, like, she would put on audio tapes for us. I think it was   what was it? It was, like, it was this Christian content that I remember.  

GT and the Halo Express, I believe it was called, which is just like it's an angel who interacts with kids, and it's just like little little Bible stories. But they played all kinds of stuff. That's just the one that stands out in my memory. That's why I grew up listening, like, falling asleep to audio content.  

[00:21:01] Unknown:

And, like, I really want my daughter to have a single That is why you became a, like, that's why you became, like, an early adopter and a voracious listener   of podcasts?  

[00:21:12] Unknown:

Potentially. I was listening to podcasts  

[00:21:15] Unknown:

way before other people were like, I was listening to podcasts when it was you had to install iTunes, and it was just in iTunes. That's one of the first conversations we had was, like, our history of podcast. I would just I would argue that it probably has more to do with the fact that you were an interesting, curious person   than and that's how you were and you were probably like, for me, I was raised half of my life without   the Internet, without this stimulus.   And then without that stimulus, I actually became a curious,   person.  

And then when I got exposed to conversations I mean, I used to listen to like, I I grew up with AM radio constantly because that's what my dad listened to sports twenty four seven on AM radio, and so it was basically   conversation.   You know? But I don't think I I don't think that's why I became a podcast listener, but I think that it was just being curious and interested in people and smart people talking to each other. Say it comes down to like, me playing audio for my children is not  

[00:22:16] Unknown:

like, I don't think listening to odd other people talk does not does not make you want to talk, does not make you interesting person. It's like to become a podcaster or, like, any kind of,   I guess, person that, like, you're putting out your thoughts in the world and expecting other people to look at them with some kind of   interest. It's like, you got you're gonna have to be some level of interesting to do that. And just a person who sits around listening to audio content, it's like, that's not like, I I I don't think that listening giving my children a YOTO, I don't think is going to turn them into podcasters.  

[00:22:45] Unknown:

But I think it's good for the NPCs. Consumers of podcast. Yeah. I think it's good for the NPCs because they'll probably like,   I I I I've been seeing this my whole life, right, where it's like, oh, you know, children   need to learn how to use computers because they're going to learn use them in the real world. So they have to learn at a young age to learn how to use them, and it's like,   not true.   Right? There's no study. There's no   it's actually not it's actually untrue.   Right?   Because,   we all we all learn how to use computers without having them jammed up our ass from the age of three.   Right?  

We all learn you know?   And,   you know, like, I guess we haven't even gotten to the potential for indoctrination. I mean, almost all of, like, the audio   a lot of audio only is a big vector of indoctrination. Right? Absolutely. I mean, it absolutely can be.   Especially if they wanna they really want to remove any other stimulus,   right, and just start piping in. So, like, yes, the relay used to like, they've been doing the religious stuff forever.  

[00:23:49] Unknown:

Right? Just pipe in religious messages. I guess it it matters who is doing the piping in. And the fact that you can choose what to listen to is the difference of broadcast television, if there was, like, a a radio equivalent for that or that was, like, long form audio podcast, if somebody else was choosing   what to play on that and the end user, the listeners have no choice over what they're listening to, that's a propaganda outlet. That that is a   so I agree with you there. But, like, it for my daughter being able to choose what card she wants to put in and, yeah, like, there's there's crap in here, like the Frozen songs. Like, Frozen is lesbian propaganda. But, like, okay. I I acknowledge that, but I'm also willing to Really? Yeah. Absolutely. That's what Frozen is. Haven't listened to it, but that's interesting. If you want it, it's very Can we get another Ask a lesbian what what is the message of Frozen? They will tell you. This is this is a anyway Like, I'm not a lesbian. I'm not angry about that. It was like, okay. Yeah. I'm exposing my children to all kinds of propaganda. Like, to live in the world is to be exposed to propaganda. But, like, what I can be like, right now, I am that   market maker. I am the person choosing the content that she is able to consume.  

And so out of that a cool thing about the Yotas, like, they have these cards are near field communication cards. So you can hold them up to your phone and re rewrite them if you have, like, the NFC tools,   app. You can rewrite these cards into whatever you want them to do. And that this is an open standard. They they make this thing they make cards that are specifically, like, for parents to write content to. So I I wrote a couple cards with just music. I could write a card with, like, our podcast and put that on there if I wanted. Like, not not that I want our daughter to listen my daughter to listen to our podcast at this point, but someday, maybe.   But, yeah, it's like the the idea though that   you're right. Like, there there are malicious actors out there that want to put memes and ideas into children's heads and, like, okay. My job as a parent is to be a bit of a buffer for that, but I can only be so successful. Like, my goal as a parent like, I need I need to raise her to be curious innately. Like, don't beat the curiosity out of her because, like, that's if she's gonna become interesting enough to be a podcaster, she needs to be curious to go out and do things in the world. It's like that that is the Uber requirement. It's like don't kill the curiosity.  

Like, that's what I would say. That's, like, what the defining characteristic of the NPC mindset is is lack of curiosity. They just wanna consume what they've already consumed.  

[00:26:01] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean   or just it's just too hard.   Yeah. Right. It's just too hard. Like, Bitcoin, man, it's just too hard. But, like, I am always I mean, look. I'm very suspicious. I'm always, like,   I'm always adversarial adversarial   about new devices that hit the market. And then   so, like, the idea of a device   is I mean,   like I said, there are   they can be yeah. These things can be useful, but you got I think I come at it with a suspicious mindset and that so That's true. I brought I brought her a gun too. So, you know, she's she's learning Yotow. She's also learning handguns. Right. But this, like, this device maker thinks they basically have this idea. We are do we're making a better device because it's not a screen, which is true.   Right? And it's kinda like the, like the,   sports bottle that's like, well, it's BPA free plastic.  

It's like,   okay. So we all know BPA. We all think we understand   plastic because we know BPA is bad or whatever that is. Right?   But we don't know, like, the thousands of other things that are in fucking plastic. But as long as it's BPA free, we feel we feel very safe to go   to go using it. Right?   This is, like, screen free. We've eliminated one thing, but maybe we've created   potentially   worse thing. Potentially. That's true. Really know the impact of, like maybe they do. You understand? Like, you know, it's interesting. You know, Des Dickerson from Thunder Games? I I don't, but I know Thunder Games. Thunder Games is,   you know, she she posted she came and was a guest at the John once, and she's very open about the fact that, like,   that that gaming platform   does use all of the   tricks and tools that all the social media companies use   to keep people engaged. Right? And this is what it is. Right? But there is a, you know, like, there is a known psycho psychology   around how to keep people engaged,   and,   it's just something that I think we have to tread lightly around. I think they can be useful, but we gotta be like yeah. We don't know, and we should be curious   about whether or not   this is these things are good or not. I'm very curious. Yeah. I have I personally have issues. I I I have to, shield my kids from the world wanting to give them all these devices. This is like I've had to, like, go as far as saying if you buy my child a device, I'm gonna just smash it with a hammer.  

You know? Like, this has been you know, now that I've grown kids, this has been the last twenty years of,   you know, this the the the twenty years we just lived through have been my parents, my cousins. Everyone wants to buy them a new device. How old were your daughters when I got their first smartphone?   They were in the tea in their teens   at the time. Like, early teens or late teens? Early teens. I mean, they're in their late teens now. So, like, it was probably only a few years ago that   I capitulated   to them having phones.  

But for the most part, I mean, it was still it wasn't just about phones. Like, they wanted to buy the phones, iPads, Nooks,   whatever the thing was for the last twenty years that would make a good gift for a kid and, you know,   would really confer,   incredible status   on those giving those gifts. Right? But then I and I'm, like, had to be the dick every time saying no. No. No. No. No. I'm not having it. I'm allowing it. Don't do it. Stop even thinking about it.   I'll destroy it. I'll fucking I will do I'll I will throw it in my pool. I'll I'll find a this,   like,   this has to stop. Right? You know? To me, I I considered it an attack on me   and my you know? And it's caused me to expend energy. And, you know, this is this device you have is fucking genius   because   somebody with   slightly less aggressive,   instincts than me would find it's a like, would would have no problem with it. Yeah. Me.  



[00:30:06] Unknown:

You know what I mean? Yeah. I have no problem with it. Yeah. Like, this is she is going to grow up in a world that includes a lot of things. It's like, I can only protect her from things for so long. And, yeah, like, the idea like, yeah, I'm not gonna give her a smart device until, yeah, teens.   But but the idea that she is not going to interact with with things, like, okay. No. That's ridiculous. Cool. Like, those that device reminds me of the kind of thing I would have grown up with. It's but with but, for but with the knowledge of how to basically get It's very expensive because I mean, it's like Is there really? Everything comes back to Bitcoin because, like, this this is a closed ecosystem. They they like, you have to buy the device, and then you have to buy the cards from them. And the fact that they're not selling any data or using any advertising means that it's that much more expensive. Like, we we've grown up on this advertising model of the Internet where we expect things on the Internet to be free because advertise because our data is sold and because we are advertised too. But, like, what is Bitcoin is trying to build the next version of the Internet where okay. No. It's pay for content. Like, I would Are these Bitcoiners? Are these are these, that that make this device? I I mean, I don't I don't know. That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Anybody could be a Bitcoiner and they don't they I don't know. They are not publicly  

[00:31:12] Unknown:

you can't, like, buy it with Bitcoin. Their their website is not set up for Bitcoin. Like, the Daylight Computer, like, you know, like, is those are Bitcoiners that made that even though you can't buy it with Bitcoin yet. But, like, those,   you know,   that solution   was  

[00:31:26] Unknown:

is being created by Bitcoin. I was just curious if this I don't know the whole development story of it. I I know a bit of it. I've looked into it enough to know that I'm comfortable with it. It's a private company that has gone through several,   like, VC funding things.   But, like, for like, they have been very upfront from the beginning that the data is not being like, their their priorities in the digital environment are is about as good as it can be pre Bitcoin.   Mhmm. So, yeah, it's it's a thing that has yeah. It's   I was skeptical of it for, like, somebody buying my when we first got it, my wife and I were both very skeptical immediately. Like, hey. Ellie's not we're not getting this. Yeah. Like, somebody like, my sister-in-law just bought her a smart device. No way. And then in a couple weeks after I after, like, we played with it for a while, it's like, oh, this is actually brilliant. This is a very the yeah. It's it's a it's a   target I am the exact target target audience for this. Like, I'm a person who is a big fan of audio content. Like, I want to expose my children to audio content. I also feel that I am capable of being,   like, a guard to keep her safe. Can you Yeah. Like, I'm podcast from this device?  



[00:32:34] Unknown:

The so they're built into there there is a daily podcast Oh, yeah. Because it has NFC. So you can, you know, you can put your cold card up to it with if you haven't turned NFC off on your cold card. Right. But it's like it's just know your cold card has NFC.   That's supposed to not be podcast.  

[00:32:52] Unknown:

Hello out there from me in here, the very warmest of welcomes to Yeah. We're gonna enter right there. What what podcast is that? So this the Yoto player itself  

[00:33:02] Unknown:

has every day. There is a daily Yoto podcast that will that if you your own podcast. You can configure this device however you want. So, like, you can set volume limits during the day, during the night. You can say what the buttons do. It's, like, I have this set up. So, like, the first time you press this button on the right, it plays the daily podcast. And the second time like, the one like, the fifth this podcast that's called The Daily?   I don't know that what the name of. I think it's the Yoto podcast. NPR. You connected this to NPR because of the person who got this thing for you. Yeah. My sister-in-law used to work for NPR, so she is in, like, the audio content space. Don't they have a podcast called The Daily?   Maybe. This this device, Yotu, is completely completely unrelated to them to to NPR. This is its own thing. For now. We'll see. But yeah.  

Okay. Right? For now? Yeah. It's true. It's based on London. Do. Yeah. Well, hopefully, with the USAID USAID   go going away from me. That'd be great. Yeah. True. Like, if this if Yotu goes out of business with with the lack of USAID funding, that would be We'll see. We'll find it. We will find out if this was part of the USAID   project. But yeah. So, like, the first time you press the button, it plays the daily podcast, and then the next time you press it, it just plays the their radio station, which is just like kid music. And then there's, like, at night, it's there's there's a night radio station that plays, like, calming music, like, go to bed music. And, yeah, there's   loads of custom customization  

[00:34:18] Unknown:

if you if you want to customize it. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take away from the fact that it's cool. In fact,   like I said, it you know, like, it reminds me of the kind of thing I would have had growing up, like, that's so low tech.   So it's it's just one of those things that I get I get suspicious because it it's it's like a very low tech it's a very high-tech device dressed up as a low tech thing to appeal to people who are afraid of technology.  

[00:34:44] Unknown:

Right? Yeah. It's smart. It's it's identifying what are the things that people don't like about technology. Alright. How can we make a device that is more suitable for Can you turn the NFC off? Absolutely. Well, that that's how it works. But, yes, you you can like, the it has a near field communication   because that's that's how it reads what card you put in it. But, yeah, you can turn that off. You can turn the Wi Fi chip off and then just load it with content and then just what its internal hard drive has and that's all it can play. There's a bunch of stuff you can do with it. So you can totally air gap it.   Right. But, like, if you want there is a there's a USB c port on it, which I have I've I've loaded everything through the through my Wi Fi network. So I I don't know what the capacity is of this USB c port is if it's just power, if there's data too.  

But, yeah, it's  

[00:35:25] Unknown:

it's been a while since They will not be sponsoring this podcast anytime soon, but it's Oh, it's a no issue that's gonna be sponsoring this con It's an interesting converse like, yeah. I mean, I that's why. Like, I think it's I like having conversations where, like, we really oppose each other. Oh, yeah. This is not a sponsored  

[00:35:40] Unknown:

section. YOTO hasn't given us any money. I'm just like, yeah. I'm talking about it. It's gonna take you from those   creeps. No. I'm just kidding. I want my daughter. My daughter's gotta, you know, I she forty hours per week. And then you get you gotta do. How do you get to listening to forty hours per week of Bitcoin content if you don't start with, like, five five hours per week, one hour per week of of other con you gotta you gotta learn. Three other podcasts. So if they want few if they want me to trash this thing on any of the other ones, I'm hap I'll I'll do that. You know? Or   they it's like they seem like they would want that. They seem like they want somebody to say this is what's wrong with it because that's the whole premise of what they have going on here. It's like, we're not yeah. You can trash us because we are, bad. We're not a smartphone. Like, people hate Exactly. They don't wanna give smartphone to their kid because it has the Internet on it. It has cameras. It has games. It has it's just all the things to suck the kid's attention into just staring at this black device. This little box is none of that. It has a little tiny screen that shows a banana or it's it's it's like a 16 by 16 k. Matrix of pixels. So it's like it's very simple. It's like Mario level graphics, what you can display on it.  



[00:36:39] Unknown:

Nice. But anyway, like, that's enough that's enough about the Yotel This is you as a parent and me, like, yeah, as a   more experienced just saying, hey. I like this. I like the way where the world is going with these solutions, but I'm   also very   I'm also very suspicious  

[00:36:55] Unknown:

still of Right. Yeah. Like, I wonder where this will go in the in watching as   the Hollywood and the centralized   existing entertainment structures are falling down and burning. It's like, alright. This this seems to be a potential  

[00:37:08] Unknown:

avenue of success for the future. I have a lot of grandkids at some point. So, yeah, I gotta keep my ear to the ground on all this.  

[00:37:15] Unknown:

We so my wife and I are in the process of talking to a pro like, we we are about to cut a check to a private school for Ellie to start at. And as long as we're in this area, she's gonna be going to this Acton Academy, which is a a school is a school that started out of Austin, Texas. It's kind of, like, based on the hero's journey. Doesn't have grades. It is just it is entirely based around developing   like, the conversation I had with them is, like, like, I want a daughter who can grow up to be a podcast guest. I don't care if she learns algebra. That's great. Like, I don't care if she learns all these things that for everything. We are gonna be a podcast listener and a podcast guest. Well, think about like, what is what is   AI proof? Like, what can my daughter do that a large language model can't?  

It's there's not a lot.   It's getting harder and harder to figure out, like, what are my kids gonna do? I would say math also is one of is a good answer to that question. I'm never gonna compete with a calculator, Ben. Like, I I get what I get Large language model is not a calculator. So No. I I get your point what you're saying. Like, okay. There there are fundamental basics. Like, you're I want my daughter to learn calculation.   I want my daughter to learn how to add and subtract and, like, these are important to me. But, like That's not math. But that's that's a that's a tiny it's like,  

[00:38:23] Unknown:

it's like saying, it it's like basically saying Bitcoin is connecting to the Internet. It's like it's certainly something people have to do in order to do it, but it's, like,   a tiny   tiny subset of the whole thing, and it would be pretty tragic for humanity to reduce that to that. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Some antics. The, but, yeah, ultimately, I want my daughter to be an interesting person. Like, I I I am not so concerned about what she fills her mind with yet until it's unless she is pursuing, like My dad that raised her to be a podcast guest, I think, will give her that story of being an interesting person. Right. Like, did my dad, like, scientifically try to create me to be a podcast guest?  

[00:39:00] Unknown:

I I she has to be curious about the world. She has to be curious about people. She has to be interested in talking to people. She has to be interested in, like, exposing her mind to new things. If she's great We talked to Rod Palmer  

[00:39:12] Unknown:

two weeks ago, and now it's, like, it's just game on. Forty hours a week of child rearing   into podcasts.  

[00:39:20] Unknown:

Well, it's like we we have our we have our differences. Yeah. He I would be very upset if my daughter starts smoking marbles. It's like Totally. But, like, I feel like, like, you know, some type of regular exposure to Rod,  

[00:39:32] Unknown:

who is, like, the Pied Piper of   pipe of podcasts, of Bitcoin podcasts. Right?   Like, we need to figure out it's not just like, okay. Yeah. There's daily practices. There's tech,   but there's probably, like, also a curriculum.   Right?   And maybe that's maybe there's, like, a   annual, you know, like, an annual retreat where we all hang out and,   you know,   just talk.   Like, I I I think   hearing   people   talk to each other and engaging, you know, I I don't know.   I I think you're this conversation has gotten me to think about what,   what I would like, how do you train a podcaster,   like, from birth?  

It's a good question.  

[00:40:19] Unknown:

What's your so you you mentioned Bitcoin curriculum. Like, what what is your initial gut reaction? Like, what is your Bitcoin like, what what was your Bitcoin curriculum for your kids? Like, your kids are old enough to understand it. Like, for for Ellie and, like, all I'm all I'm doing right now with my kids right now. The dad likes Bitcoin. It's being it's it's being smart and understanding  

[00:40:37] Unknown:

the things that matter for freedom. I mean, I think the until they're ready   to really   you know, until they have the maturity   to want to take things on for themselves, the building blocks are   being intelligent, curious,   and understand freedom and care, you know, try to care about those things. Do they have, like, a,  

[00:40:58] Unknown:

what's what's what's the term whenever you give kids money?   Allowance. Do they do do they have all accounts? No. I never get allowance. No. Do they like, do you do you ever send them, like, Bitcoin on their phone, though, or, like, do, like, like Yeah. What I do money you send them stats? So they have for some reason, my kids have cash, like, all the time.  

[00:41:15] Unknown:

You know, people give them cash,  

[00:41:17] Unknown:

and, they've saved cash. Well, that's good training. Like, a cash based system is not a not a trip based system. I never carry cash. Right? I never ever ever I'm not sure. Like, it's it's almost it gets embarrassing. Like I carry one $20 bill in case I run into a kid with a lemonade stand. I always have one $20 bill. So what happens is when I find myself needing cash,  

[00:41:36] Unknown:

my kids will use my kids will pay, and then I'll pay them back in Bitcoin. Sure.   And we all like that system.  

[00:41:43] Unknown:

That's interesting.   Yeah. I mean, right, like, the the idea of, like, the the bank of dad being, like, your kids   on and off ramp for Bitcoin into fiat is like, oh, yeah. That's any any adult who's a Bitcoin. Like, that's gonna be your responsibility for your kids to be there on ramp. Like, you're tax free on ramp and off ramp. It's like that's what I do. It's like I'm I'd I'd you're my kids. I'm here for you. By the way, that's how non scarce fiat money is. Like, my kids just end up with it. I don't even know how.  

[00:42:09] Unknown:

Yeah. Right. You know, they just and and so it always happens where, like, they have to go on a trip and it's, like, $30 or something like that and or they have to you know, they're always in need of something like that, and it's the morning of, and I'm like, sorry. I can't help you. Yeah. I get   you know? I just can't help you. I don't I don't hold cash. Do they do they have, like, legacy bank accounts?   My older one does because she worked.  

[00:42:35] Unknown:

But did is it just like a like a legacy institution or is, like, is it like a modern quote, unquote? But is it like Cash App? Or, like, I've been I've been trying No. No. No. I don't think so. Will ever have a bank account. No. They she has a bank. She has to deposit her paychecks, like, from Dunkin' Donuts into her bank account. And so now she has an ATM card or debit card that she can draw off it. Right. Okay.  

[00:42:56] Unknown:

But it's like, yeah, giant Cash App, you can't, like, actually use it. You can't really register until you're 18.   You have to be   you can't actually do it now. Interesting.   Now, like,   my younger daughter's in Spain right now, and I, you know, we basically said, we we put the full card on her phone. She just uses it.   It's that's actually works really great.  

[00:43:20] Unknown:

Yeah. I know that the Apple Cash, I think I think it's 13.   Like, Apple is, like, trying like, they you can, like, set up an Apple ID as, like, a child under a parent account. And one of the one of the things under Apple Cash, I know that you can, like, set up like, you can fund your kids through Apple Cash, and then that, like, that works wherever Apple Pay is. Yeah. This is interesting. Reeves, if you're listening, Will,  

[00:43:42] Unknown:

this is not noncomp you know? Don't don't get your compliance people on me. You know? Just my   for my daughter using using the full card. It works really great in another country, and it's, like, literally the best way.   Because, like, we can't use our credit card. Like, it's not that we can. It's just like we get fees   if she uses our normal credit cards outside the country. For some reason, the fold is just doesn't we don't incur that.  

[00:44:06] Unknown:

The Fold's pretty awesome. Yeah. They just went,   they just went public. Right? They they rang the bell to Nasdaq. They went public. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like, shout out Will Reeves. Like, he's,  

[00:44:16] Unknown:

you know, I did a I did a fundamentals of fundamentals episode, like,   when they announced they were going they announced they were going public the same week that Swan basically,   destroyed their company,   you know, getting rid of 60 that announcement where the you know, basically, they got they got rooked by Tether,   and then they laid they laid off 65%.   That all happened in the same week, and I did an episode that,   it was like a tale of two companies between Swan and Fold. You know, how Swan wanted to do the IPO, and then they that that that ambition took them down. I've chronicled that on this show for two years.   And then, but FOLD somehow was like the turtle, right, that managed to do it.  

And I talked about also how you gotta watch Will now because now that he got his, you know, now that he got his his money,   I would just say you gotta watch his ass. You know? Right? Yeah. Now that that episode, this podcast gets, like, 20 downloads. But Will actually did listen to it, and he DM'd me and told me that he thanked me. And I have to shout out to him, and he's a he's a, chill guy.  

[00:45:24] Unknown:

And I I really do wish the best for him and that company. I think it's pretty cool that Fold so we're on CrowdHealth. CrowdHealth integrates with Fold, and it's like you can set it so that we I tried it and then I turned it off, but it's an interesting idea. You can set it so, like, Crowdhelp will will debit the maximum amount that you have, like, agreed to. And then the difference of what they don't need, they'll just dump into your Fold account. So it's a it's a way to charge, Yeah. Charge up your full account while just having a single debit from your from your checking account for yeah. It's it's interesting. By the way, anybody listening to this podcast right now who watched your,  

[00:45:57] Unknown:

watched your Simply Bitcoin video would think would think that Mike is about to pop in with an ad read.  

[00:46:03] Unknown:

Mike is so awesome. Right. Dude, we we talked for, like, an hour and forty I it's not a night. We talked for a long   time and to  

[00:46:11] Unknown:

and then, yeah, in the show notes so that everyone goes and watches it. It's it's like, you know, Mike Mike is doing videos for Simply Bitcoin. Mike is a genius.   Yes.   And, we love Mike.   We've had him on our show. We love Mike.   And wherever Mike is doing videos,   business cat and I are going to be  

[00:46:31] Unknown:

doing videos with him. Mike makes me realize   how lacking I am in the area of video editing. It's like, oh, he is good at it. He can take content and, like, edit it together in a way that's compelling.  

[00:46:42] Unknown:

Like, I'm actually in need. I'm in need. I mean, I don't know how in need you are.   You just kinda,   like, do your thing.   I'm I'm in desperate need   of   the somebody like Mike   to bring   like, I just wrote a book, and I need somebody to bring like, I need somebody who can bring these things to life   in a video format.   And, you know, like, so, like,   just so everybody knows, like, I'm you know, there I got one coming   that, so I did I I did it a couple days ago, I said. I did the two hour of talking.   You know?   And it's about areas of the book, and so that's gonna come out too. But, like, yeah, I'm I'm in desperate need of somebody like Mike who can create videos that would bring these things to life. So,  

[00:47:31] Unknown:

I wonder I wonder how much his cost is. Hey, Mike. Like, if I give you stuff, like, $500 So we basically pay the pipe we pay the piper by, you know, just letting  

[00:47:40] Unknown:

the people   monetize it. Right? We're not getting I'm not getting any   you and I aren't getting paid for all the views. How many I don't know how many views your thing has. It's probably has probably has more views than every math video I put out combined. Right? It probably has more views already than most of what we do on this on on this channel. It immediately had more comments than anything, any podcast we've ever put out. People were like, this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong.   It was great, though. It really was great. I was, like, I am so I was I'm always happy to see you working with those guys,   and it almost feels like Mike is continuing the high hash rate,   energy.  



[00:48:17] Unknown:

It's definitely similar energy. Right.   Did you see that Apple just   changed their, ruling on, like, Bitcoin stuff in their ecosystem?  

[00:48:26] Unknown:

No. What is this?  

[00:48:28] Unknown:

It was just, like, in in the last twenty four hours,   Apple has announced that you can now like, the reason that Domus had to remove, like, the zapping functionality Yeah. From their noster was because Apple had made a policy whereas, like, you Bitcoin transactions and Bitcoin inside of the the Apple App Store,   was there there was a very specific list of things you could do with it, and it was and they aware of this because my friend at Apple, like, I was I went I went ballistic.   Apparently, that that ruling has been lifted, though, now. So  

[00:48:57] Unknown:

Wow. Yeah. That's big. So because I went I actually went very hard at my friend. My my friend is, you know, senior guy at Apple   at the App Store.   And,   two things happened that week. It was the Domus thing, and it was Zeus.   They they basically,   and and, you know, this ruling would really did crush it crushed Domus. Right? It really did crush them. It was Apple and Google together. Doesn't It was like within a a week or two of each other, like, okay. No Bitcoin advertising, no crypto. They they cracked down hard. It doesn't it didn't crush Zeus as much as it crushed Domus because, you know, zapping over that app is really what made it   a good app. Right?  

But I remember really trying to take my friend aside and say, listen. This actually he he he didn't know anything about it. He wasn't part of it, but he basically is like   he's like, on the surface of it, it looks like they're being dicks. I'm like, no. You don't like   like, we we gave them a clear road map to, like, how to get their app approved, and they're not wanting to do it. Like, no. You don't understand, like, this that what that road map cripples them. Them. Like, you don't see it. And, like, maybe listen to me once. Right? That people are gonna be throwing your goddamn iPhones into the river at some point. You keep doing shit you know, doing things like that. Dude, that's nowhere. I feel like that's going that direction. Like, if who could keep it with Apple? Capitulation if they did do this. That's pretty solid capitulation.  

[00:50:25] Unknown:

Yeah, man. Like, there's gonna be a moment when Apple adds a Bitcoin wallet to the Apple Wallet, and then, like so, like, Apple Pay. Right now, you like, and anywhere you go, you can double tap the power button and bring up your your list of payment things and then tap to pay. At some point, Apple's gonna add a lightning wallet to that user interface. That's gonna be massive when app the the Apple bitcoin wallet. Yeah. That'll probably happen. And it's so interesting, dude. Apple Pay,  

[00:50:48] Unknown:

for anybody that, like,   wonders   if,   you know, anybody that wonders what's possible in payments,   like, when I went to Hawaii two years ago,   dude, I was you could buy mangoes on the side of the road with Apple Pay.   Now you can't you know what you can't do? You can't enter the national park paying,   cash,   paying US legal tender. You cannot do that. However, you can buy mangoes on the side of the road   from,   you know, from some local   using Apple Pay.   So if people want it and people demand it, and I guess Apple Pay may be the thing we may have to just capitulate that that's how people wanna pay for things. That's definitely how I walk around with no cash. And for me, I hate to say it.   You know,   the the,   you know, I hate to live in a world without cash.  



[00:51:40] Unknown:

We don't. Bitcoin is cash. Like, we don't live in a world without, like, we had to until Bitcoin came along.  

[00:51:46] Unknown:

Somehow being able to integrate Bitcoin into Apple Pay, I think, is a really good thing.  

[00:51:51] Unknown:

100%   that day is like, if Apple doesn't fold entirely and go belly up, they will add a Bitcoin lightning wallet to Apple Wallet. Same thing, like, there's gonna be a Tesla phone. Like, look looking at the direction of what Elon Musk is doing, there is going to be a smartphone from, like, a SpaceX smart like, an Elon phone is coming 100% guaranteed. The question is, when's it coming?   Yeah. There there's certain roadblocks that I I I would   they just seem certain to me. There's no conceivable like, unless this unless the pole shift happens and the we the reset happens to technology. Yeah. It's like   Barring that, certain technological things are going to happen. There will be a lightning point in in Apple. It may not be light. Like, you know, lightning is a lightning is a little bit on the ropes right now.  

Why do you say that?  

[00:52:39] Unknown:

Maybe that's just my sense of, the community, like, people.   I think that the people who we would say are, like,   you   know, the plebs that really want   self custodial   or noncustodial,   you know,   payments   are getting frustrate are are at the point where we're getting for you know, they're getting very frustrated with   where Lightning is right now. Lightning is clunky.   It's not great. It's great compared to nothing. It's revolutionary   compared to nothing. And I think I've said a lot on this show,   everything we like about Lightning only really exists in the custodial form. Right?   And particularly, like, the success of getting your payment. I have no problem with custodial Lightning. Like, they understand. But the first layer I I I understand. But but I'm   but, like, we can't you can't just yield the entire world to custodial lightning. You have to have this you have to have this force of,   that is possible  

[00:53:36] Unknown:

for people to do it I agree with that. Noncustodially.  

[00:53:39] Unknown:

Right? And that,   you know,   like, that has not been now that that has not been great. Now Phoenix coming back, I think, has been a Phoenix coming back to The US.   So,   you know, there was a big there was a big DOJ ruling,   I wanna say it was, like, three weeks ago, where they   said as a standard of practice,   coders are not gonna be held responsible for the actions of their users.   You recall this? And yet, samurai is still under yeah. Well, samurai and tornado cast are still in their you know, but that this the day that was announced, Phoenix put their app back on the App Store. I saw that. Yeah. I've been I'm waiting for Wanda Stoshi.   And,   the see, Phoenix is on a Claire, you know. And then, like, Zeus built everything on LND.  

LND is   like, LND   is difficult.   It's the you know, it was the biggest thing that everybody built on, but, also, like, a lot of the privacy features that people are looking for, like blinded payments and things like that   are are it's hard to get them in without,   soft forks, without new op codes.   Whereas in, like, versions like a Claire and Corelightning   and l two,   they they're more nimble because there's less infrastructure   built on that. Mhmm. Right?   And so they are able to figure out more of how to do these things on those on those platforms.   Phoenix runs on a Claire.  

It's,   you know, it's pretty awesome. It's just expensive.  

[00:55:11] Unknown:

So the idea of the sovereignty stack of that people that wanna be sovereign are gonna wanna, like, run their own lightning node, and, yeah, yeah, it's hard.   Is it harder to run your own sovereign lightning node or to run your own email server? Because, like, email is an area of sovereignty that I don't see many people talking about. It's not that it's hard to run your own You could run your own email server and have your own your own email address and but the the vast emails may not get to where they're going. The thing is just you may have to Gmail. You might, yeah, you might have to wait  

[00:55:41] Unknown:

a half a day. Like, Lightning is supposed to be for immediate payments. And   on you know, when you're actually using the Lightning Network and you're not just doing a spreadsheet entry, right, when you're actually using the Lightning Network, it actually is difficult.   It's not these payments are difficult to route. We're not it's still super, super, super early. Yeah. I know. I I agree. It's I  

[00:56:03] Unknown:

I disagree the difficult like, I use, like, I I I guess I just don't run into the difficulty you're describing with lightning. Sure. You try to route some huge payment, like, you write write your mortgage payment through lightning. Yeah. You're gonna have problems. But, I mean, that that will be solved. By Bitcoin going to a million dollars and my my channel size not changing, that's just gonna mean  

[00:56:21] Unknown:

over time, I get to send smaller and smaller SAP payments through it. If I'm sending, like, a dollar equivalent There's issues with privacy. There's it's it's it needs like, all I'm saying is it's early in lightning. People are starting to get frustrated by it. And the entrance the entrance of somebody like, already the entrance of Tether in lightning is people suspicious   and,   you know Right.  

[00:56:43] Unknown:

You have some people super bullish about I have never used Tether, but, like, I'll tell you what. Like, I am if I was ever going to use Tether, it would have to be on the Bitcoin network, and it would have to be approved by the US government. Like, I'm I haven't touched it because it's like, I it's just not like, why do I know it when I don't need it? More approved the Tether is the is the most approved thing by the US government there is. Right. No. Like, that's my point. Like, it's it's coming more in it seems to be more and more coming into, like, oh, I might end up using Tether at some point in my life to store dollars. Sure. But the point is it has people  

[00:57:15] Unknown:

it has some people super bullish and has some it has it has the people who have consternation about where lightning is going. It has increased their consternation. And I think, like, Apple coming into it would also increase that.   I don't know what it's gonna look like. I don't know what all the there's a lot of payment options out there, and there's Monero. There is,   eCash. There's, like you know, there are spec there is a spectrum of payment,   like,  

[00:57:41] Unknown:

payment platforms that are being developed. It's really, really, really early. We may have used for all of them. Right. It's like a similar thing happened in Fiat. Like, they like, all of these different Fiat payment like, there's, like, Cash App Pay and PayPal Pay and all these different ways of, like like, Venmo and Zelle and, like, oh, no. Use our network, and you can but, like, none of them talk to each other. So, like, I I feel like an open network,   like, Bitcoin and Lightning. Okay. My my Lightning   node doesn't doesn't only talk to Eclair or LND or, like, these different versions. Like, Lightning works with different versions.  



[00:58:14] Unknown:

Like, the there's You can't your Lightning node is an LND node or it's a Eclair node. Right. But, like, when I'm sending payments out on the network of them. Well, right. But it's only gonna interact if you've had an eclair node, it's only gonna  

[00:58:25] Unknown:

it's only going to communicate with other eclair nodes. Right. But it's like there there are there's like I'm imagining when when I try to imagine, like, what is this theoretical Bitcoin lightning wall looks like, I imagine it looks something like Wallet of Satoshi. It's entirely custodial. It's a black box where it's, like, you can send in either on chain or above chain   transactions and it's like the whatever happens is there it's happening behind a behind a closed door. I mean, that's a look. Wallet of Satoshi is a version of this that works.  

[00:58:54] Unknown:

So, like,   that's so I think what people need to understand is that there there are many versions of payment system that work. There's they're not there are many, not like so many. Right? There are many versions. Like, the Wallace Toshiba version works. The Stripe version works.   The Zeus version works, but it doesn't work as well as the other versions. It's just it's pain. You know? You have to really be commit. Like, you have to be super, super committed   to doing it noncustodially.   Like, I would not Zeus version. I would not put my  

[00:59:25] Unknown:

put my parents on the lightning network. It's like it's like the their my my parents need something like a wallet of Satoshi solution. Like, if they're going to be in the network, they they need something where it's just all of it is abstracted away, and, basically, there's a send or receive button.  

[00:59:40] Unknown:

But, like, at the like, that's I mean, e e cash will probably be good for, you know,   for that.   You know? And for small dollar amounts, I like shout out lonely pumpkins for the,   you know, the $20 bill in the bathing suit analogy.   You know? What what's his $20 bill in bathing suit analogy? When I go out to the beach, I throw a $20 bill in my bathing suit. I understand I might lose   it. I might lose it in the ocean, but,   you know, I'm not   I'm not gonna take my entire bank account with me, but I don't wanna go,   you know, I don't wanna not have access to buying things in the boardwalk. Right. So I wanna have some cash with me, and so I I'll take enough I'll take enough that   I'm okay with if I lose it.  

You know?  

[01:00:25] Unknown:

So like at some point in history, there must have been the conversation. It's like, I've got I've got my gold. Like, I'll I'll put I'm only gonna be put a certain amount of gold in the bank because I don't wanna lose it. And then over time, it's like it just that it got everything, and it completely abstracted away. Like, the idea of a $20 bill in my in my trunks as I go swimming at the beach, it's like, oh, that's all of fiat banking. That's just all of fiat is in my trunks.  

[01:00:45] Unknown:

Yeah. That's the it's like yeah. It'd be nice to be able to I mean, look. It's also nice to be able to do,   noncustodial   payments.  

[01:00:57] Unknown:

It's just we're just very early. Yeah. Right. It's like the user interface of, like,   Bitcoin is infinitely more   able to be self custody   custodiable   than is that the right word? What whatever.   Than   what came before it.  

[01:01:15] Unknown:

But at the same time, you know, like Not everything is zero trust. It's just we have to have the zero trust.   They have to be options.   We have to have some you know, then that's why I'd like shout out to Evan, man, like, for just continuing to build this thing because   it's like if it didn't exist, I think we'd have there'd be great great danger.  

[01:01:36] Unknown:

Yeah. Like, what what is the most what is the greatest danger of state danger to Bitcoin   seems to be that they they will remove all the roadblocks if you let BlackRock or some other   custodial solution handle your Sats and, like, oh, no. Well, like but if you don't have self custody, you have these ridiculous reporting requirements.   It's like that that seems to be the attack vector now. Yep. Yeah. But it's like so I mean, especially like it I saw some I saw,  

[01:02:03] Unknown:

somebody tweet this morning about how about a tax credit if you buy Bitcoin. So now people are gonna have to report their Bitcoin buys if they want the tax credit. And it's like all of these things where, like, that's the way it's the way they're gonna do it. It's like if you want the you know, and you want goodies,  

[01:02:21] Unknown:

You want you want you want the government goodies. You have to report your  

[01:02:25] Unknown:

all all of your, you know, your nodes and your,  

[01:02:29] Unknown:

you know, you have to start reporting things. Yeah. But, like, at the same like, the government's not gonna exist at this size for   that much longer in the grand scheme of like, there we can't have a Bitcoin government and have the giant government we have now. Like, they're gonna have to Nope. Shrink. So what we're gonna have to they're gonna have to follow in the footsteps of what I am,  

[01:02:48] Unknown:

of what I'm celebrating. Speaking of anniversaries,   I just crossed the one year anniversary   of my   exit from the fiat world. And I think that year out in the real world.   One year. Yeah. And I think I yeah. I guess, hopefully, I'm a trailblazer for,   hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of government employees.  

[01:03:09] Unknown:

Dude.   Yes.  

[01:03:12] Unknown:

Well, you can only hope. But,   you know, I what the way the way I've been talking about   it was,   you know, I looked at the fir when I bought Bitcoin for the first time, I call that my genesis.   Hold on. Sorry.   I call that my genesis moment. And then when I lost my when I left my Fiat job, I called that my exodus moment.   And then I was, like, asking some friends, like, what the hell is Leviticus? I need to Leviticus number, Deuteronomy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it turns out that,   what people were telling me was, like, Leviticus was sort of, like, get, you know,   getting the 10 commandments,   getting,   you know, getting the,   the documentation   really   for,   you know, for how to for how to do this going forward. And I feel like,   writing the book was like the Leviticus moment.  

Right? So Now comes numbers.   Numbers is the math academy. Yeah.   Right? So, like, I feel like I have this I don't know what the fuck Deuteronomy is. Is that that's gonna be a whole another problem. Right. But was judges I I I'm I'm running out of the the books that I know off the top of my head. But to be sitting here a year from,   to a year a year later,   one I I'm just gonna share a couple of insights   that,   I know a lot of you guys are at this edge, and disappointingly,   many of you have kept your jobs.   You know, a shout out, Agrarian, Kantrainian. We talk very rarely these days, but,  

[01:04:49] Unknown:

it disappointed me to no end that you kept your job, and we're not gonna get pigs this year. Well, whenever he shows up on the show, you can be that means he is no he's he's he's not a fed anymore because and he's ready. He's he told me, like, once he's done, he's   he's ready to start doing his podcast circuit, but he's still still too much in that camp. He's, like, gonna be shot out of a cannonball.  

[01:05:11] Unknown:

So,   what I was gonna share with people is just that, like, the first,   you know, the first six months or so,   I was really focused on doing things that, like, I was like, oh, I'm never gonna have this time again.   You know? I'm never gonna be, like, this free ever again. I'm so let me, like, go on a road trip with my children. Let's go on these vacations. Let me make let me do,   there's just a number of things I wanted to do that I felt like,   you know,   this was so precious. I was never gonna have a time like that. And then at six months in, I was like, you know what?   I think this is how it is.  

I actually think I don't this isn't it's not that it's not special. It's just that it's it's all special because   I'm going to invent my life.   I'm gonna invent a new career,   basically. I'm not going back.  

[01:06:01] Unknown:

I'm not going back unless I absolutely absolutely absolutely have to. What's it like? And what do you go back to in the fiat? Like, we are existing right now at a time when the most people in the history of the company   a company, why not, country?   Like, are looking for employment, and, like, it's only going to accelerate. We have millions of federal employees that are gonna have to join the private workforce. It's like it's not gonna get easier to find a job. I can do it. I know I can. And it's not like, I and I guess maybe the knowledge that I can  

[01:06:30] Unknown:

is why I'm able to con you know, I'm sort of, like, able to keep that in my pocket and,   move forward   and build.   But, like, what I'm pretty so after writing the book   and,   you know, really aggressively   networking myself,   You know, I think I'm close to putting myself in a position of,   employment,   you know, in in basically in this. And I wrote the book to get, like, speaking engagements and to get,   advisory work and to bill help companies really build   Bitcoin the way I wanted to do with the job I had. Mhmm.   So it's really it's really interesting how that's come along. You know, in only a year, I feel like I'm close. I actually really can taste the fact. Like, I don't   I feel like it's way more likely that I'm gonna rebuild   my career and reinvent it than I'm gonna have to go back and do something close to what I was doing before.  

Like, it I can I can taste it at this point?   It's exciting.   And,   you know, I I   I you know, there's something about   letting it happen and then   trusting God and doing,   you know, following your like, sort of following your North Star with the utmost intensity.   Not knowing what and not knowing where how it's gonna end up. Like, I I didn't   I didn't know I was really gonna have a chance to really reinvent   this career. And then this career, this that I reinvent   will then fund   the math academy. That's, like, the idea. Right?   You know, it's this is this is the special privilege. I live a very privileged privileged life now. I get to choose what I wanna do. I study math three, four hours a day. It's like, there's a reason I do that.  

I'm on some quest, and it's you know, that's not something I'd be able to do in my and it's not something I'd probably be able to keep up if I was working some other job where somebody else gets to direct what I do with my time. But,   like, if I do emerge out of this   with work, if I do emerge out of this, I mean, that is the ultimate win and that's the ultimate f u. Okay? That will be, like, really the completion.   Now just getting to have lived the last year of my life the way I have is a pretty nice f u. Okay?   Pretty nice.  

But I'm greedy.   You want more? I I'm greedy. I want   I wanna win.   And winning will be standing myself   up with a career I could do until I die, which is,   you know,   talk about what Bitcoin can do and help you know, that's you know?   Like, think about, speaking engagements   to fucking NPCs and companies that,   you know, like, one day Microsoft decides, shit. I guess I have to capitulate,   and I have to or Apple. And they have a hundred thousand employees who hate Bitcoin or don't know what it is or don't care.   Somebody's gonna have to explain to them why they should, and,   I'm I'm building myself to be  

[01:09:40] Unknown:

at the top of the list to be one of those people. That was a similar level. So I am let's see. I I quit my job in   early twenty two. It was   March. March or April of twenty two was when it so I'm I'm like, this is my three year, I guess.   And,   I I had a similar level of, like, the the first six months was, like, I need to do all the all these thing. I'm, like, all this stuff. Like, I'm free. I need to take advantage of it. And then it kind of, like, it kind of comes to the point of, like, oh, no. This is just life now. It's, like, I I started getting all shaggy. Like, I let like, I was, like, yeah. I had to come up with a new reason to be, like, brushing my teeth and showering in the morning other than, oh, I have to go I'm going to the office.   It took a while. It was like, oh, well, I'll do that later. I'll shower this. I'll shower tonight. And it was like, it got to I had to   consciously, like, oh, no. I need to take care of myself for myself and for, like, the family,   not because I'm going to the office. And that was kind of like a low in the in the period of, like, me trying to, like, figure out, yeah, my my new life schedule.  

And then out of that so I I had a similar thing of, like, okay. I'm I don't wanna have to go back to where I came from. So   I need to start putting irons in the fire and, like, enough of them that one of one of them will be successful.   And it's like I mean, the beautiful thing of bit Bitcoin is the tide that raises all boats. It's like everybody has like, I had a similar moment of realization of, like, oh, if I become, like, the Bitcoin expert as the world has to transition onto this, like, there's gonna be market opportunity for me to transition some of my knowledge into   a mortgage my mortgage payment.  

And, like, that that was so but, okay. How do I get myself out there? Like, I need to start there there's no meetup in Pennsylvania. Like, I'm gonna start the meetup for the entire central center of the state. And then now when all of these and this has already started, by the way. Like, it like, as businesses in the local area have started to realize that the shortcomings of operating on on the dollar system, it's like, oh, it's not just the federal government that needs a Bitcoin reserve. It's not just the state. Like, Arizona just decided they didn't want the reserve. Like, federal government Bitcoin reserve, state Bitcoin reserve,   local, like,   local judicial   Bitcoin reserve. Like, there's going like, my township is going to own Bitcoin. My city is going to own Bitcoin. And, like, all of the individual companies too. Like, okay. You wanna operate in the system? You're gonna have to have a treasury. Like and so I I just had this conversation with the, private school that we're about to send our daughter to. It's like, okay. I'm paying in fiat right now, but, like, let me tell you. Like, whenever you guys are ready to take Bitcoin, I will be your first person to pay in Bitcoin. Like, we'll have that like, just laying that seed. Like that in the I can connect and, dude, they can talk to my school's dean   and Right. Yeah. This is like you already did. Get up and running, like, you know, immediately.  



[01:12:13] Unknown:

Like, we've done that. This one we've done. You know? This is definitely one we've we've actually done. But, you know, think about the shortage of people that are gonna be needed to do things like this. Like, they're gonna be hiring mood. Yeah. Think about the average lunatic out there, like,   because they know Bitcoin. Like, Dieter Bob is gonna just be a is gonna make is gonna be   a a senior,   project manager for Microsoft because there's no but there's you know, they they need like, Microsoft is gonna need 10,000 people that understand Bitcoin. And in the world right now, there's only, like, a thousand. And that's just one company.   Right? They're gonna need somebody that understands,   this world.  

So when they're managing projects and they have to say, listen.   This one's   this one's on track, except the guy doing it decided to reside his house.   So he'll get to it when he gets to it. That's gonna be the world. That's gonna be the world they're dealing with   for the next ten, twenty years.  

[01:13:13] Unknown:

Yeah. And, like, any business that wants to run a payment node, like, run like, not not every business is gonna run their own lightning node, but, like, it's like a lot of local, like, small businesses right now will use Stripe. They'll use third party payment processors. It's like I probably a lot of them are going to do a similar thing. They will use a third party payment processor. But for some percentage of them, like, companies are going to the fact that they can run their own Bitcoin node and then their own Lightning node on top of that, there's about to be   mass I mean, I may not about to be, but, like, there's gonna like, any company that wants to do that is going to need a   person to manage the liquidity of that lightning node. You wanna Wait till you go through another yeah. Wait till you go through another debanking event. You know? Like,  

[01:13:53] Unknown:

you know, there's a lot of people who won't go back on PayPal, and there's a lot of people who won't go back to Stripe because Yeah. Of all the people they kicked off their they kicked off their network. And we go through another one of those   and,   you know, like, it's gonna get ugly and it's gonna be ugly. You know? It is like, I I think this whole process is gonna be ugly,   but I'm okay with ugly.   I'd rather be ugly than go back to doing what I was doing before. Oh, yeah. For sure.   The world's gonna get the world's gonna fall apart. Like, we're gonna have mass humect, like, die off. By the way, the head start I got and you got you have a three year head start. I have a one year head start right now on it's not on   it's accepting the ugliness and being prepared to operate in it. And you guys who are still at your jobs are not prepared.  



[01:14:44] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Right? Because it's like I don't I don't wanna say that you're not prepared. Like, it's  

[01:14:48] Unknown:

Well, you're not you're not prepared for things to just go super ugly.   And to and the good news for the the good news for the those of you who I'm talking to is that you're young.   You guys have time. Yeah. That that is a massive advantage to have, like, time.   For me, I'm not I'm not a young guy.  

[01:15:06] Unknown:

You're okay. You've got some great you're not that old. You're you're, like, ten years older than me. I'm 40. You're 50. Like, you're not older than the consensus of Bitcoin. The consensus of Bitcoin is younger substantially than my generation.  

[01:15:17] Unknown:

So I have a different role to play here.  

[01:15:20] Unknown:

And So that like, the beauty like, that's the the beauty of it. It's like, yeah. We get to choose our rules. Like, you're out of the the level of corporate   fuckery. Like, they're they're not directing your path anymore. It's on you to decide where to walk.   I wanna direct their path. Well, you're right. I would love I try I was very vocal with Deloitte before I left Deloitte. It's like, hey. There is money to be made here that you guys are leaving on the table by letting companies like Chainalysis do this that you like, you we could be doing this right now, and you're not.   I   the  

[01:15:47] Unknown:

the Treachery. What what is your treachery too, by the way, for it's like, you   know, you're gonna use Chainalysis  

[01:15:54] Unknown:

and you're gonna prop them up. It's absolute treachery. Oh, right. Like, even, like, me as a Bitcoiner being like, oh, Chainalysis   is a business model that we could emulate and make money. It's like this is something anybody could do. Like, Deloitte could be a like, they could have a Chainalysis division.  

[01:16:09] Unknown:

Yeah. Pretend it's all correct   even even Right. Yeah.  

[01:16:13] Unknown:

But that that's literally what that that's what I did as as, like, whenever I was they would sell my contract services to the state and, like, I would hack the state and then tell them what I did so that China couldn't do it. It's like, that's all it's all a confidence game. It's me being like, oh, this is what I did. And don't worry. If you update, you'll be fine. You'll it's all a confidence game, but it's all that's that's the whole thing. Like, having somebody who is   confident enough to be to sign their name on the dotted line and be like, yep. I'm the the buck stops here. I'm the person who says that, yep. I I scanned it. It's good.   Like nobody wants to be that person and like Bitcoiners are much more able to be that person.  



[01:16:47] Unknown:

Yeah. So   a year out,   it's awesome.   I recommend it.  

[01:16:55] Unknown:

Well and   let's  

[01:16:57] Unknown:

it it is awesome. Yes. You all of everybody is going to experience it eventually, and I hope it's just as awesome whenever the mass movement happens as it is for us. I do recommend it, and I'm really excited to be in the position I'm in right now with, my book essentially is being typeset, and it's it pencils down. It's total pencils down now in in the publishing process.   So,   like, I'm I don't think I'll have hard copies for the Bitcoin conference. I don't think I'll have that   yet. But, like  

[01:17:27] Unknown:

You might have some advanced screeners, like, soft copies. I'll have you'll be able to get digital copies, and I'll have them I'm gonna find a way to host those for extremely cheap. Like Just get a whole, like, get a strap of USB. You're gonna hand out USB drives to Bitcoin because that probably won't work, but, like, whatever. You'll figure it out. The, I just wanna like, the   the awesomeness   of   awesome awesome life is like the the only way to have an awesome life is to occasionally have moments of not awesomeness that peep that fall down and, like Volatility.   Snap you back to reality to remind you of   of how great your life is. And I I had a moment like that this week. Mhmm.  

Our,   long time   amazing cat,   Kai,   he, we had him put to sleep this week. He he was going down there for a while. This is business cat. This is business cat. Yeah. The the face of business cat. And this is that that was he he I knew him longer than I've known my wife and my kids combined. He's been he's been my buddy. He was whenever I so whenever I joined the air force in 02/2006,   my parents got one out and bought a cat so that a kitten so that whenever I came home from the Air Force, I would have, like, a like, a a little kitten to play with or, like, something that at home waiting for me. And,   yeah, that was he's he's been with me ever since until this week. Oh, man. Yeah. It hurts. It it like, I it's been it's been years since I've cried, but I I cried like a baby for a cat. Losing a good friend, it's just it's devastating.  

Yeah.   Waking up and not having him downstairs, like, screaming for breakfast and then coming, like, crawling up in my lap, purring at me. This even I I I I won't I won't I don't wanna hang on it too long. But, yeah, just, like, even in his last his last, like, week of life, and he was   starving to death and probably probably had some kind of tumor in his bladder, I think. But   still then, he would crawl on me and just purr and purr and purr. He's like, he's just I'm gonna thank thank you for the time. You're gonna hate the idea that just popped into my head that I I wanna mention right now.  

[01:19:25] Unknown:

But,   believe it or not,   there is a Phish song   about a guy, and it's, like, literally the one. It's like the one if you pulled   every Phish fan in the world and you said, what's the one song you wanna hear to show?   It's this particular one.   And it is about a lot of things, but the premise   part of the big part of the premise of the song is   this character named Jimmy, his cat his he has this he loves his cat, and his cat dies. Every time they play the song, it's another version of the story. And the song is it's, it's called Harpoon. Harpoon is this fat, sweaty bulldog that ends up   and,   I just mentioned that to,   I don't know, to say that there's I mean, this is There's some relatability in the there's some relatability in the in the sphere.  

This is a comical   you know, they kind of make it a comical thing, and this is not a comical situation.   I mean, it's But life has a message at the end of it, which is that you can  

[01:20:28] Unknown:

get you'll you you will move on and find something else to love. If I yes. That's that's a great like, life goes on. It's like, I if I didn't feel this beautiful sadness right now, like, that that's an indication of just how happy I was, like, whenever he was alive. And, like, the idea, like, that everything like, this podcast,   everything circles back to Bitcoin and everything circles back to fish. It just does seem to have something there are subsets, and this is like  

[01:20:56] Unknown:

there there are weird subspaces going on of intersection, and this is what I'm here to point out to people. But I've I've you know, I consider it my role to point out these intersections because As waveforms overlap, peaks and troughs happen, and just rock paper Bitcoin is a peak overlap of Bitcoin and fish and life It's a container. A rock paper Bitcoin, I believe, is a container for all of these,   you know, for these subspaces.  

[01:21:23] Unknown:

Imagine me and you. I do.   I think about you day and night. It's only right to think about the girl you love and hold her tight. So happy   together.   If I should call you up,   invest a dime,   and you say you belong to me. So here's my mind.   Imagine how the world could be.   So very fun. So happy together.   Me and you and you and me.   No matter how they toss the dice,   it had to be.   The only one for me is you   and you for me. So happy together.