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Who is the White Coat Shaman of Bitcoin? Ioni Appelberg

What if this human life is all just a simulation and psychedelics, nature, and Bitcoin show us the real truth?

Ioni Appelberg is a medical doctor (white-coat shaman), psychonaut, MMA fighter, Bitcoin educator, and author of “Abundance Through Scarcity” who is on a mission to inspire people about Bitcoin, tech, and psychedelics for a more positive future.

Summary
In this conversation, DJ Valerie B LOVE and Ioni Appelberg discuss various topics including the evolution of Bitcoin, creating Bitcoin content, the concept of a network state, the psychedelic nature of Bitcoin, and the use of psychedelics for personal development and healing. 

Takeaways

• Psychedelics have been used by humans for thousands of years and are an integral part of our evolution and connection to the natural world.
• The criminalization of psychedelics during the Great Prohibition was driven by societal fears and a desire to control and suppress consciousness expansion.
• Connection is essential for human well-being, and the lack of connection can lead to various mental health issues and addiction.
• The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, but connection. Building meaningful connections and relationships is crucial for overcoming addiction and maintaining mental health.
• Psychedelics can provide profound spiritual experiences and open doors to new perspectives and understanding of the self and the universe.

Chapters
(03:09) The Evolution of Bitcoin and the Bitcoin Community
(17:46) Bitcoin as an Economic Psychedelic
(28:16) Psychedelics in the Medical Community
(41:52) The Pathway for Psychedelics and Overcoming Regulations
(51:08) The Opposite of Addiction
(53:26) The Rat Park Experiment
(54:48) The Vietnam War and Connection
(59:14) Defining God and the Cosmos
(01:03:33) The Simulation Hypothesis
(01:05:11) Ram Dass and Being Here Now
(01:08:51) The Potential of AI and Unfiltered Creativity
(01:19:03) The Spiritual Experience of Psychedelics
(01:20:09) Life Without Psychedelics
(01:22:18) The Lifelong Journey of Psychedelics
(01:23:28) Where to Find Ioni Appleberg

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[00:00:31] Unknown:

Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Welcome to Bitcoin for Peace. I have somebody here who I got to see speak in person down in El Salvador talking about Bitcoin and psychedelics.   He is a medical doctor, a psychonaut, an MMA fighter, an author. He's into Bitcoin tech psychedelics, and he's a wonderful content creator, the author of abundance through scarcity, and he's got a killer YouTube channel that so many people love, and they learn about Bitcoin from   Ione Appleberg. Welcome.  

[00:00:59] Unknown:

Thank you so much. That sounds like a cool person. I wanna meet him. Dude, me too. High five to that guy.  

[00:01:06] Unknown:

Yeah. What a treat. It was so cool to get to meet you at, the speakers dinner and then watch you give your beautiful talk. I felt super like, Wow. I'm so happy to know you, and,   I've consumed your content, and I know a lot of people have been impacted by it. So how did you get from a medical doctor to a psychonaut to Bitcoin creator and educator.  

[00:01:29] Unknown:

I guess I'm a restless soul.  

[00:01:31] Unknown:

High five to that, my friend.  

[00:01:34] Unknown:

I remember when we, when we first met at the speakers dinner in El Salvador   was   Very beautiful night. I had a great time, great vibe at that. It's a dinner party.   And I know I know I I knew who you were.   And,   but you didn't know me by my face. You didn't know me by my face. Yeah. No. You didn't know my face. So But I knew you made it. And I I I   I understood that you were leaving,   the party, and I just wanted to   say hello before you before you left.   And so I just introduced myself and you gave me this incredibly   warm and present.  

Yeah. Yeah. It was just, you were just awesome. And so I was and we had a great conversation after that. I was,   Yeah. That was, that made my night.  

[00:02:23] Unknown:

Aw.   Yeah. Me too. I was so glad. I mean, I feel   isn't it amazing, like, the the relationships or the, you know, the strands of connections that we have with each other through Bitcoin even though we haven't all met, but we're like, wow. I really love your work or I know of you, or you're somebody I I just don't wanna check out, and then all of a sudden, we get to meet each other in skin suits, you know, like, woah.  

[00:02:47] Unknown:

And that's very   we're in a very unique,   point in time because it's not always gonna be like this. It's not always gonna be like these   these people who go to conferences and people get to know them. They're sort of like a a thing going on for some people.   And and we're   connected with these, like, in a network in a way, and we get to,   do our networking and meet the same kind of people. Like, the community is still small enough for it to to feel,   to feel special.   But it's not always gonna be like that. So we should really cherish these all these, conferences that we get to go to and   And have the newcomers and and see the old timers,   until it all dilutes into just being   being,   hyper Bitcoinized.  



[00:03:40] Unknown:

I well, yeah, I guess you think about, like, when the Internet was first coming on and all the tech people were coming together probably. Right? I mean, I wasn't involved in that scene at that point, but it's, like,   so exciting in the beginning. Like, it's just gonna Change the world.   You know? And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, it's just ubiquitous. Everybody's using the Internet. No big deal. You're not having, like, We're having an Internet conference. No. You're not. Like, it's yeah. So   that's I'm hoping that's how Bitcoin is gonna   evolve. I mean, how long have you been a Bitcoiner?  

And why did you how long have you been in Bitcoin, and why did you start making content?  

[00:04:15] Unknown:

I'm class of,   2015,   2016.   Okay.   So I I started reading. I read the Bitcoin white paper in 2015, but so that was my 1st touch point. Mhmm. But I still consider myself more like   class of 2016 because that's that is when I began actually making an effort to understand Bitcoin. Mhmm. And when I got my first stats.  

[00:04:38] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:04:39] Unknown:

I fell down the rabbit hole. Thanks to Andreas,   his YouTube channel.   And the reason I Started making   content   was   because   it was a great   way for me to,   It was a good medium to, to learn. Yeah. So I I started   reading and consuming other people's content, and I Summarized it for myself, and I put it in my own words, and I repackage it repackaged it in a in a way that meant may made sense to me. So I   Made   content for me.   And   rather than just having a bunch of notes everywhere that I would never Go back to I decided to start making videos because that's because I've always made videos.   I have this,   I have a video diary that I've had since,   2029,   twin yeah. 2009, I think. Wow. Yeah. Where I,   I've experimented with different formats over the years. Like,   I   when when I first started, I did, like, I don't remember how I first started. I just filmed a few events here and there, I guess.  

Then, for a few   for quite a long time, I did one second a day because I saw a TED talk on that. Somebody did that and inspired me, so I did one second every day. Mhmm.   Then I moved on to doing,   monthly summaries, like a monthly   episode of my life. And what the what the diary   aims to do is not I'm I'm very   I'm very I'm rarely in it myself.   So I just show the world from my perspective,   leaving   behind my autobiography.   This is The life from Yoni's perspective. This is what this is what I saw. These are the people that were important to me. These are the things that I found interesting.   And so I just   do that. It's like creative hobby I have because   I have had to learn a lot about editing,   cutting color correction and all that and just making videos. And I I enjoyed that a lot. So it came kinda natural   to me to make   the Bitcoin content also in video format.  

And and I wanted to learn how to do some animations, so I learned that. And I wanted to learn what   How YouTube works. So I learned that.   And, yeah, that's that's the story.  

[00:07:15] Unknown:

And and what have you discovered   about,   you know, obviously creating there's so much Bitcoin content out there. Right? You know, we've got our podcasts or books, videos, or articles, blogs, spaces, and everything, like,   how have you,   how have you found the audience for your videos? Like, who loves to who are the folks that love to consume your videos? Are they already Bitcoiners? Are they new people   or both?  

[00:07:40] Unknown:

Yeah. I I would say there's a mix.   Like, a lot of,   newcomers like, a lot of people use my channel to orange pill their friends,   Which is, which is a good tool. And now now so now you have that. So   if you're listening, please go ahead and use my channel for that. It's it's That is what it it has evolved into.   I never really had an audience in mind when I except   apart from myself when I made these videos.  

[00:08:09] Unknown:

So, there's, there's one. There's the most recent one. Yeah. And and so I I wanted to to share for people. So this to me is a superpower, you know, but, obviously, this is Bitcoin for Peace podcast.   Talk can you talk about this statement that you made here?   If I'll I'll say it out loud. Say it. Why don't you read it out loud so that the the people are just listening and not watching, they can hear it. Yeah. So this is an anime animation.  

[00:08:34] Unknown:

It's a collaboration   between me, Knut Swanholm, and Guy Swan. Mhmm. The video is called Oppenheimer versus Nakamoto.   And here's a frame towards the end where,   one of my   little animated buddies   Says if world peace is the goal, the worst thing a person can do is work for a government.   Governments are responsible for the worst crimes against humanity that have ever been committed.   It's a big and bold statement. And what this what this,   means is that,   If it weren't for government, we wouldn't have had world wars.   If it weren't for government, we wouldn't have had mass starvation.  

So it's it's pretty straightforward what it means.   It just means that it means what it says, that governments   are responsible for the world's crimes against humanity. And all we have to do to realize that this is true   is to look at history.   There are plenty of examples from history   to support this statement.  

[00:09:44] Unknown:

And and what is, if any, are alternatives to having governments?  

[00:09:50] Unknown:

No, I don't know.   But what I do know is That it's not the final solution to how we organize ourselves as human beings. Yeah. I don't know what the next, stage is,   But it's not the final stage.   So as human beings, we have found   different ways to organize ourselves across,   history.   Mhmm. So we are no longer, for example, in a,   feudal society where we have kings and queens and peasants.   That was, that used to be the,   the way that we organized ourselves   as a society.   Mhmm. The Kings and the queens were the most important people in the world   and they still exist today,   but their, their importance had diminished.  

They're not that important anymore, but we still have them. They're they're still around. They're glorified   politicians, basically. Yeah.   Here in Sweden, we have a king and a and a queen. And, I mean,   you you would if you went up to a teenager   and asked The name of the king and queen, they they wouldn't even know it.   So they're they're not that important anymore, but they exist. And it's going to be the same with Nation states and governments,   going forward. I'm not saying in the coming decades, but,   Like these, these,   civil, these societal changes,   they take time.  

But   at some point, we are going to   live in a society   where nation states still exist,   Where governments still exist, but their importance is going to be radically diminished   to the point that, well, they don't really matter. They exist, but They don't really matter anymore.   And maybe maybe the   evolution of the, the nation state and the government is,   a network state.  

[00:11:44] Unknown:

That might be it. A network state?   Yeah. Yeah. Like, Can you explain that for for everybody listening?  

[00:11:51] Unknown:

Sure. So the network state is,   a digital type of state   Where you where we are,   where you are not   part of a nation based on   Geography and borders   and language   and,   currency, but rather you are,   you are   belong to a network with people of similar   values and attitudes,   and,   You can be of multiple nations and you can have multiple,   languages.   But we can be like the Bitcoin   network could become,   the first network state.   So what that would mean,   it would mean that we would become,   a sovereign state, a digital state   With the same,   same rights   as a state,   a physical state. So we would be would we we would exist In the digital world,   in the digital realm as a form of nation state, but not real a nation state, but rather a network state. And we would be   Joined by our   values   and our ideas   rather than our   borders and,   state currency.  



[00:13:16] Unknown:

Do you feel like the Bitcoin network is are the people of the Bitcoin network are already sort of   assembling in that way naturally because of   just I because I do, I find personally, and I don't know if this is the same thing, but like everyone who I meet, who's a Bitcoiner, it's like we all share the same   passion for freedom. We share the same passion for making the world a better place. We share the same passion for   self responsibility   and and   connectivity, and opportunity, you know? And so I wonder is that   are we doing this already just by default?  



[00:13:53] Unknown:

Yeah. And and so I'm not saying that Bitcoin could become the next, network state for no reason.   I I'm making the same observation as you are. Mhmm. I think that   the bit the people in the Bitcoin community   are   organizing   a new form of society   and it's happening   Bottom up. It's happening naturally.   Yeah. It's not something that we're really I mean, I'm sure there are initiatives,   but it's not really   Based on initiatives, it's happening anyway.  

[00:14:30] Unknown:

And would you equate   the network state? Like, how would you compare that with the phrase circular economy?  

[00:14:36] Unknown:

Could you frame the question differently?  

[00:14:38] Unknown:

Well, I hear people talking obviously in the Bitcoin community and other different communities. We talk about having circular economies that are, you know, whether it's in El Salvador at Bitcoin Beach, for example, right, or other small places where people It's not just   because of the currency or the money that we're using, but it's also because we want to go build this better world. So it seems like a network state might be   a few more layers of of ingredients  

[00:15:05] Unknown:

than just a circular economy. Mhmm. Mhmm. Is that Yeah. Sure. I'm not sure which would come first. I think they would come   simultaneously.   Mhmm. As we're seeing now in El Salvador with the El Zonte, for example, the Bitcoin Beach community or And Berlin in   in El Zonte up in the mountains. Did you get to go there? I did. I did. I went into the Bitcoin school and   And met the people there,   had a tour. It was great. It was great. Nice. I'm actually looking to Go back there for and give a few lectures in that Bitcoin school. Cool. Yeah. When they're done. Yeah. We had a talk about that. So I'm really looking forward to that. I'm hoping that will,   come to fruition.  

So these kind of places, these physical places in the world, they are going to emerge   Where we have   Bitcoin physical Bitcoin citadels.   On top of that, we're gonna have the network layer.   And,   I mean, there I I don't know where the distinction is gonna be between these or I mean, there this it's gonna be a new kind of thing. It's hard to Put your finger on exactly what this will mean and what it will be because we don't know yet,   what they are. We don't have any any precedent to   Anything to compare it to.  

[00:16:22] Unknown:

Yeah. It's it's pretty fascinating thinking about   we don't have, like, a historical thing that we can say, yeah, this is how it worked for these other societies or civilizations.   Yeah. And  

[00:16:35] Unknown:

It's the same thing with Bitcoin. We are dressing up Bitcoin in all kinds of clothes and met metaphors to understand what it is. Yeah. It is not as simple as a new kind of digital money. It's,   it's an entirely new kind of economic operating system that has never existed before   with   radically different properties that affect society and people and economy   in ways that we Can   we can sort of foresee, but we can only speculate about them.   And I often argue that Bitcoin is an economic psychedelic. It's an It's a psychedelic for the human   brain because it has a psychedelic impact on us. Yeah. And it also has a psychedelic impact on the economy in the sense that it   like a psychedelic,   exposes the flaws   of the current,   operating system, whether that's human brain or the economy. It exposes the flaws. It gives you a list of and saying Here are the things that are wrong with this current system, whether that is the algorithms that you have in your brain Mhmm. Or how the, the Fiat system works. It lays bare the flaws,   and then it introduces plasticity into the brand and then and into the economy.  

Mhmm.   Giving us the opportunity to actually change,   to actually change our our,   thought patterns, our   Behavioral repertoire   as well as how we how the economy works.  

[00:18:10] Unknown:

And I wanna add I love that we're getting into this part right now. For look. And I will come back to this. How did you get involved in psychedelics? Like, what's your, you know, what's your what's your background in psychedelics?  

[00:18:22] Unknown:

Oh,   I was one of those kids who   was wasn't very much against any kind of substances,   because I didn't understand what they were. Mhmm.   And I had not tried any form of substance before I was 31. I had not had besides   caffeine in green tea, basically.   I'd never had nicotine, never had alcohol,   never had   That's a diasapine, so opioids, or cannabis, or any form of psychedelic.  

[00:18:55] Unknown:

Until you were 31 years old. Yeah. Yeah. When I was 31,  

[00:18:58] Unknown:

I   When I was at 31,   I   I I smoked cannabis for the 1st time, and that was my first, encounter with any kind of,   Mind altering substance.  

[00:19:11] Unknown:

And why did you choose to do that at 31?  

[00:19:14] Unknown:

I had a friend who introduced me, and I was curious about substances because I had started reading,   about psychedelics   and cannabis. And I had watched a few YouTube videos, and I I wanted to explore what These things were. Mhmm.   And I felt that at that age, I am past,   the age where my brain Can be negatively affected by them   in the sense that it is already set.  

[00:19:42] Unknown:

Yeah. And so   What about okay. So 31, you try cannabis. When did you have your 1st psychedelic, and what was it?  

[00:19:49] Unknown:

My 1st psychedelic, that was maybe when I was, What was this? Maybe 34 or 35,   so about 4 years ago now?   Okay. I think. Yeah.   It was,   I had an LSD trip with,   one of one of the closest people in my life.   And we had,   he introduced me and we it it was a beautiful summer day.   We went out in nature and just had   a very long walk in nature.   Yeah. I think it was 75 or a 100 micrograms I had.   So,   I'm medium those.   Definitely enough to   be very affected by it, but not   Not an heroic that was by any any stretch of the imagination.   But we had an, we had a natural   Experience in nature,   it was fantastic. And from that, I just I fell in love with what it was, what it did to me, and how how it helped me   Reconnect with nature   Mhmm. And to   reconnect with myself And with other people and with the cosmos and everything, I found   I found   back to something that   was missing in me.  

And that served as a portal   for further exploration.  

[00:21:10] Unknown:

What did you find that was missing? Did you ever so 2 questions. So did you feel   something intuitively   like an itch inside of, like, is this all there is? Is the is there something going on? And then if so, what?   How to, you know, doing the LSD,  

[00:21:27] Unknown:

you know, address that. I'm very grateful for having, an inquisitive mind.   I feel very blessed for that.   And that's but that also comes with consequences.   Like,   I've always been   I've never been a particularly   sad person,   but I'm I've been   I'm I'm,   I've been alone   a lot in my life. I felt lonely quite a lot.  

[00:22:02] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:22:04] Unknown:

And I discovered that the reason that I feel alone is because I lack connection.   And in the western world,   A lot of people feel like this. I am not alone. You are not alone.   A lot of people have this   Emptiness inside this hole in their chest that they try to fill with   with power, with status,   With money, with   partners,   with alcohol   Yeah. With the ambition,   With   the education   with all kinds of things. But   you cannot   fill that hole   Because what that whole, it stems from,   from lack of connection. And when I say lack of connection, a lot of Westerners don't even know what that word means because they don't have it. Yeah.   It's kinda like, you know you know when you have it. It's the same thing with love. When you have love, you know you you know it's love.  



[00:23:07] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:23:08] Unknown:

It's the same with connection. When you have connection with your Self with another person, with nature, with cosmos.   You know you have it. Yeah. And it's a it's an incredibly   Powerful and very human sensation.   And it's part of what it means to be human, to have The connection with yourself, with other human beings,   with, with nature.   Like, when I find it so weird, like, when people say,   Oh, you're you you like you like nature. Right? You go on hikes and stuff. Like, no. I I don't like nature. I am nature.  

[00:23:44] Unknown:

Exactly. Like I,  

[00:23:47] Unknown:

I,   I am this now living in this artificial society that has created,   Like a break between   what I am   and   And the cosmos and other people and myself. There's just this, like   it is it has created a disease. Like, The shamans in South America, they perfectly understand that they look at us and they see a disease. They see a lack of connection.  

[00:24:17] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:24:18] Unknown:

And a lack of connection that is, that is severe.   So when I found that, like, I I saw a glimpse of connection on my very first experience with   LSD. And from there,   I had to find out what this was all about.   So I   ventured further   both at the, academically,   trying to understand what these substances substances are. And I delve deeper into the psychedelic community.   And also,   I also,   gave myself   more   experiences.   And what they have done for me   is that they have they have exposed to the flaws of the algorithms that I have in my brain.   They have laid them bare   so that I can see them clearly, and they have given me the plasticity to fix them.  

They have reintroduced   connection   with myself, with other people.   Like, I've been alone a a lot of my life because I have lacked connection,   which means 2 things. It means that I felt alone because I lacked connection, but it also means that I have been alone because I haven't been able to relate to other people and and maintain a relationship.   So   they have been   incredibly healing for me.   And I'm still on,   I'm still on a path I'm by no means complete.   Yeah. I am, I am cultivating a life Long relationship with these teachers   as I as I look at them. And I'm also very careful. I'm very, very honest with myself With why I do each trip.  

Whether it's,   sometimes I do it for   Purposes and for entertainment. And then I'm perfectly honest with myself that I'm doing it. Sometimes I do it because I'm sad. And, and I'm very honest with myself when I do that.   But   the overarching theme with my path   in the psychedelic,   realm is to,   is for personal   development.  

[00:26:33] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:26:34] Unknown:

And to,   and also to,   well, I have an academic interest in these substances as well, and I want to introduce them into,   end of life care and,   and psychiatry. So I worked as a medical doctor and   as a general practitioner.   And I   I do. I think that means a lot of I think it means different things in different countries. What it means here in Sweden is that we,   we do a lot of things   here. Like I know that,   in different countries, there are different   Doctors are like here's here in Sweden. I would say that the rock stars are probably the,   Probably,   like, maybe the surgeons, maybe.  

Maybe. I don't know. It's it's pretty it's pretty,   Like,   what would you say? It's,   it's pretty equal here.   Pedic surgeon or, dermatologist,   then you're the rock star. And it's not at all like that here.   Here, the anesthesiologists   are are probably the the rock stars.   Mhmm. Whether and if you go to other,   countries,   There are some places where the general practitioners   are the rock stars.   And I would say they're here. We we,   I'm very lucky to be a general practitioner here in Sweden because we do a lot of surgery. We do a lot of internal medicine. We do we, do a lot of elderly   Chair, we do a lot of dermatology.  

We, we,   yeah. I mean, we we do a lot of things here. So I'm I'm very pleased To have chosen this field in particular.  

[00:28:20] Unknown:

Do the people like, do your colleagues are they familiar with psychedelics? Is what's the   What's the overall kind of vibe acceptance of psychedelics in Sweden   with the medical community?  

[00:28:34] Unknown:

It's opening up. It's opening up. How. There are a few, there are a few big,   studies going on Here in Sweden.   Unfortunately,   the biggest study going on right now is by,   is,   I think he's,   I think he's a medical doctor,   and he doesn't really understand psychedelics. Unfortunately, he wants to be able To he what he's studying   is to he wants to see if you can,   get the benefits of psychedelics Without the the psychedelic experience. Mhmm. Which just means that it fundamentally misunderstand   what they are   Yeah. And and how they work.  

[00:29:14] Unknown:

It's interesting. Someone at my my friend was telling me about a, you know, different companies he's looking at investing in, and one of them is trying to do   something with mushroom extract so Yeah. That people can go take that, but not actually have a psychedelic journey experience. And I'm just like, just said, actually, first of all, does it do anything?   Mhmm. You know? And, like,   the journey is the journey, you know, and, like, what's going on cognitively,   I think is important. It's not just sort of like a   put a Band Aid on my soul,   you know, and all of a sudden I'm healed of trauma from my childhood. You know? It's it's   There's something to be said about sitting in the fire of the journey   because sometimes they can be   colon, magical. Sometimes they can be very terrifying. Sometimes they're   lonely. Sometimes they can feel like I'm at 1 and at peace with everything, and I've I've got the key to the universe here, you know, and so   to   to strip   the the the recipient of that experience is like saying,   it's like sex. Right? You're like, okay.  

Making love and the foreplay and all the goodness is there. But if all of a sudden   your whole goal of sex is just to have some kind of a chemical release and you can just   Give me a quick shot, and I have the same that's not sex. You know what I mean to me? So it's like I equate the   the journey is so important. You know? You don't wanna just   bypass that and shortcut it. I don't for me, per you know, as somebody who very much believes in the medicinal and   fun qualities of,   psychedelics in the journey. So,   Sure. So I think it's cool, though. It's it's in the conversations, though. People are starting to understand this now. Like, I am very  

[00:31:05] Unknown:

Open about my   interest in psychedelics and my use Yeah. With my colleagues, and they are curious about it, and they are open to it.   And yeah. So and the especially the, new generation of doctors   are very open to the ideas of using,   psychedelics   in,   for end of life care and in psychiatry.   Yeah. And we are we are currently using   Ketamine,   for treatment resistant,   depression,   but ketamine is not real as psychedelic.   But,   there is,   there's, this,   there's a we're presently we're right now in a very historic moment   because   We right now have the 1st   FDA approved human MDMA study. Yeah. So that's the first, and it's by Rick Doblin. Yeah. From Maps. Yeah. So   what he is doing is that, this is the 1st psychedelic study on humans aimed to become a legal drug, a legal, prescribable medicine. Mhmm. And these studies cost   100 of 1,000,000 of dollars.  

So everybody involved absolutely wants them to go through. Yeah.   So if MDMA   actually works in therapy and doesn't have any severe side effects,   we're very likely to see, MDMA   As a prescription drug within   a decade or so. And this is huge.   This is huge.   However,   MDMA is also   not,   classic psychedelic.   Right? So the classic psychedelics,   are LSD, psilocybin,   DMT, and mescaline, which which is the peyote cactus. Mhmm. And what what makes them,   what separates them from all other substances is their   mechanism of action.   They work by binding the Serotonin 2 a receptors with very high affinity.  

Affinity meaning,   stickiness or,   or binding potential, how hard it binds to the receptor.   So if we look at, for example, the classic SSRIs,   the antidepressant,   depressants like, Prozac, for example,   They work by,   by blocking the re uptake of serotonin. So if you   Picture   a a synaptic cleft. So   here I'm holding up for the people who are listening to my 2 fists, So, like, I'm fist fist bumping myself.   And, there's the   the postsynaptic   neuron and the and the The presynaptic neuron and the postsynaptic   neuron. And the presynaptic neuron is going to release   serotonin into the synaptic cleft   to act on the postsynaptic   neuron.  

And what's   the SSRIs   do is that they   that they block the reuptake   of serotonin from the synaptic cleft into,   back into the presynaptic   neuron   Because there's going to be a concentration of serotonin   between   the 2 neurons   and,   And s s r SSRIs   increase   the activity   of   post,   Synaptic the post synaptics neurons, serotonin activity by increasing the the concentration in the synaptic cleft by blocking the reuptake.   So that's what they do.   And   MDMA   is not   actively,   It's not direct directly active through the, serotonin to a receptor either and therefore not a classic psychedelic.   MDMA   Instead works by emptying   serotonin   vesicles from the presynaptic neuron   into the synaptic cleft. So it's like a turbo s s s SSRI.  

It's It's like Prozac on steroid, basically.   Mhmm. But it's it increases   the,   serotoninergic   effect To a degree that it almost becomes   psychedelic.  

[00:35:19] Unknown:

And so, obviously, this is a huge healing   tool for a lot of people with trauma. I know a lot of people. I mean, I've done MDMA in the past, but I never did MDMA for   it was more for fun. I never did, like, a therapeutic,   let's go do a meditation and go in and do this whole process. It was more fun. So but,   I think this is a good step in the right direction. Obviously, it's a synthetic. It's not just a mushroom that I can go grow in my bathroom.   You know, and   but what do you see, like,   the the the pathway for   psychedelics? Like, we've got Here, I live in Colorado, and they just tasked, like, a decriminalizing   mushrooms   and some psychedelics. And so   it's it's I think it comes into law next year.  

So it's not that it's   legal necessarily, but it's   decriminalized,   you know? And so,   you know, some advocates talk about,   you know, that this is not the right step, and they think that it should just be,   you know,   be because they're worried about it starting to get too much regulation on top of it. And so they're worried about the government coming in   and saying, the only way you can come and do these psychedelics as if you're in this registered licensed clinic and you have to be with a licensed doctor   versus   here, you can go to your shaman   and go do a drum circle for 3 days   and, you know, go do that sort of thing. And so peep advocates are concerned that,   you know, the pharmaceutical   companies and all of that are gonna start trying to hijack everything and then and then criminalize   the actual, you know, real pre the, the orig, the OGs, which are, you know, the, the shaman type people and the hippies. Like, what are your, What are your thoughts on that?  



[00:37:10] Unknown:

Well, a new type of shamans are emerging.   I consider myself a white coat shaman.  

[00:37:16] Unknown:

A white coat shaman.   Cool. Because you're a doctor?   Yes. I love it.   And, a white coat shaman. I gotta write that down for the show notes here.  

[00:37:28] Unknown:

There are more and more of us who   are   who see the potential in in using these,   medicines for end of life care and in Yeah. And treatment resistant to depression, PTSD,   OCD, and addiction.   And I mean, the data speaks for itself.   So what we have to do is   get MDMA approved first. And when we get MDMA approved,   for medicinal use   that is going to open the door for a lot of the these other Compounds, these real psychedelic compounds to be introduced into,   into,   modern medicine.  

[00:38:10] Unknown:

Let's talk about Gary. You just mentioned addiction, and and I did Ibogaine in Mexico.   Mhmm. Okay. Interesting.   Was right literally   the night before COVID lockdown happened.   Nope.   Uh-huh. So it's totally crazy. But,   I did Ibogaine because I was struggling with alcohol. And I was using alcohol, and I was in this, like, downward spiral. Things weren't going well, all of this, and I'm just like, Shit. I wanna   quit. This sucks. And my girlfriend was just like, come down here to Mexico. I've got a there's a clinic Ibogaine at the end of the road, and I'm like, I thought Ibogaine was for, like, like heroin addicts or you know, I thought it was for opioids. I didn't think it was for alcohol.   And she's just like, yeah. You can talk to this doctor and see what she says. And I'm just like, Whatever. Fine. It's cold and snowy. I'll come down to see you in Mexico and get out of the cold. You know?  

And I went down there, you know, with this intention of, Okay. Whatever I need to do, let's let it work and heal me and get all of this out. It was and I've done   I haven't done peyote yet, and I haven't sat with Ayahuasca, but I've had DMT, and, of course, I've had mushrooms and LSD. But,   it was the most intense,   hardcore, powerful   journey   of my life other than giving birth to my children.   It was so hardcore.   And so   and I was like, how does this work? And she's just like, nobody really understands how it works, but somehow it   rewires your brain so that you don't have   these cravings, you know, and that you're not interested in your substance of choice.  

And I'm just like, whatever. You know? What have I got to lose? Let's see what happens. You know? And   I don't it it is. It was like a magic   experience. I didn't have any   cravings.   I haven't since. It's just been this full on,   like, just wiping the slate clean. And I there was a lot of trauma work that I did during the journey,   you know,   from a lot some childhood trauma, sexual trauma, and sexual trauma as a teen. And,   and it just it just was like   and I've done tons of therapy and tons of work knowing, like, This is part of the stuff that's holding me back and all these things. Right? And so,   cognitive you know, cognitively, conceptually, I knew, like, if I had this you know, they say your issues are in your tissues. Right? If trauma is stored, sometimes it's in your tissues. And so   I knew that I wanted to be free from   these experiences   and from this program that was running, you know, and and   and I couldn't do it on my own. And   I gave it every shot, you know, and literally 1 night of doing Ibogaine   helped me, like, I don't have, like, anxiety when I think about the the situations, you know, everything. It's just like,   I got a full on reset. I literally got a reset in up here somehow and in my body. And   I'm like, wow. If that could work for me, how could this help other people   that are dealing with even more severe things like,   and opioid addiction, or, you know, so to, it's just, it's so powerful. And it's just like, how can we overcome the hurdles of,   all the bullshit regulations.  

It's a plant like the Aboga plant. It's a shrub in West Africa. It's not,   you know,   so nature shouldn't be illegal.  

[00:41:43] Unknown:

Nature should not be illegal. No.   Paul Stamets has, this,   the mycologist. He says that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For all of human existence,   we All share 2 things, which is we are born and we die.   And this creates 2 questions. 1st,   where do we come from? A second, where are we going?   So this, these questions were all,   have in common.   And with the psilocybin   mushroom experience, you learn that you're part of this, giant,   this giant oneness.   And it gives you,   it gives you   context   and consolation about your own mortality.   It shows you where you are   And this,   in this path that is greater than just your human experience.  

Yeah.   And   that context   Gives you consolation,   but for your own mortality.   So   I think that it's,   I think it's critically important that you have access to these substances at the end of your life. And, and,   and I mean, who dares to say that   That you do not, that you should not be able to use these substances.  

[00:42:59] Unknown:

It it's, it's insane to me. Like there's,   a woman, she runs psilocybin citadel   and Oh, okay. You know, and she talks about, you know, just having sovereign consciousness.   You know? And I really believe, like,   you know, because of this   nanny state   mindset, whether it's through church or through the governments, whatever, and then the media is the puppeteers of their their messaging.   You know, we we think we're supposed to be, like,   controlled and looked after by these bigger institutions and these bigger entities. Teas. You know? And so,   I have a a   one of my marketing teachers, actually, he's just like, everybody   is out there with their umbilical cords hanging out, and they're looking for their mommy or their daddy.  

You know? And, like, your job as a businessperson is to go help soothe that feeling of disconnection   from   their their parent figure and help them feel at ease and safe with your product or service or whatever. And so   So I think about that consciousness of   people out there because we do. It's a very traumatic experience to be separated from   your mother at birth,   you know, and you are, your life cord gets cut. And so then all of a sudden, throughout the rest of life, you're going and seeking   different connections. And so for you, speaking about   feeling disconnected, you know,  

[00:44:27] Unknown:

I mean, all of us are Connected from from ourselves, from nature, and from,   from the cosmos. And when we have this deep disconnection,   That is where we seek substances for,   for as trauma therapy because they're very they're very, very efficient As Band Aids on our wounds. Yeah. They're short term. Yeah. Yes. But they don't heal the wounds that that we have. They don't. And now people have Ostracize   these real medicines for the past 50 years. And for what? Because   young men didn't want to   Go abroad to a distant country and kill other young people who they did not know Right. To resolve the   Disputes that old men in suits who do know each other, how with each other. Exactly. Like like Nixon, he He criminalized these substances. He started the war on drugs because young men did not want to go to the Vietnam War and Die for the country anymore. And and that's the reason he said that these, this is,   public enemy number 1. Mhmm.  

LSD and these Substances. But, I mean, we have been using   these   substances   since before we were Homo sapiens. I've made this argument before.   We have been using these substances for 100 or 1000, maybe 1,000,000 of years.   And now for the past 50 years,   We we had this   weird idea that we should not be using them, but   but using psychedelics is a very human thing.   We have evolved together with these plants,   and we're gonna look back at this time   as the   Great prohibition.  

[00:46:13] Unknown:

Yeah.   Well and and it's a consciousness prohibition, not just because these substances, but, like, Yeah. They want to keep us numb, dumb, sick, scared, broke, angry, hungry, lonely, horny, and tired so that they can control us. Right? And so that to me   is the kraken. I call it the beast, this kraken. And so   the minute you introduce psychedelics into pretty much anyone's   this fear here between these 2 ears,   they're gonna start shifting the way that they look at the world just like as Bitcoiners. And so I think there's a lot of parallels like you say. It's like   once you start to have the veils lifted and you start to see the truth and you start to see   the misprogramming   of the system here and the misprogramming   of this system,   you're going you sometimes you're like, what the fuck? You know? Like, how have I been subscribing to this driving to this   thing for so long. You know? And sometimes there's a sense of outrage.  

There's a sense of delight. There's a sense of   What's next, and what else have I been   misunderstanding in the world? And so that curiosity wants to keep going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of your consciousness deeper down the Bitcoin rabbit hole   into   the realm of possibility   for expression and expansion and   and love and hope and peace, you're like, holy shit.   So   they don't the system doesn't work if we all think that way at the same time. And so it's it's conditioning   the way that we operate through, you know, I think the narrative in the media. And so for you being a content creator   and speaking truth in a creative way   is so important. You know? And we need so many people   who are obviously also professionals   of all these different walks of life to create content because   when we're ahead of the narrative,   then we don't have to be   in in this sort of subjugated defensive mode.  

You know?   So sorry. I had to just barf that out there.   But Appreciate it.   Yeah. I think it's it's super so what's your so,   you know, obviously, like, as Bitcoiners, you know, we we're a weird bunch, but I also equate us, like, kind of like burners and burning man people and the psychedelic community. We're we are psychonauts. We're,   you know, positarians.   You know? We're looking because we see it. We feel that itch of, like, this isn't how it's supposed to be.   You know, something's missing and something's not connecting,   you know? Yeah.  



[00:48:48] Unknown:

I think I mean, we we need psychedelics,   Or for so many reasons as a species, we need we need them as teachers   to   maintain. As you said, when we're severed from our From, from our mothers at birth,   we   we get to experience the 1st lack of connection, the 1st disconnection.   Yeah. And I think that to seek love, to seek,   connection because it's so important to us as as a species.   So when we don't have it, we become sick.   When we don't have love and connection, we become sick.   And,   you know,   when we don't have connection, we we become depressed.   We develop anxiety. We develop addictions,   PTSD,   and all kinds of   illnesses.  



[00:49:43] Unknown:

Anger, frustration,   things that are hostile.  

[00:49:47] Unknown:

Yeah.   And these these are these can be symptoms of those conditions,   And they obviously belong to the normal spectrum of emotions,   but they can also be become,   Part of the,   pathological   spectrum   of emotions as well.   A very, very,   High degrees of anger can definitely become detrimental to the point that they would be considered an illness.   So   but when we have   connection,   we   we are sort of immune   to these conditions.   Mhmm. Because what these conditions are, they're not they're not different conditions. They're just symptoms of the same kind of brain, which is a brain that That is is,   rigid. It is stuck.  

It has its harmful   algorithms.   But we can   we can treat these harmful algorithms by introducing some entertain entropy into the brain with psychedelics.   Mhmm.   And we can   show people. We can give people   connection. We can show them connection so that they know what they're looking for in the world.   So that so they're very efficient teachers in that way.   And when we have connection, we don't need   substances   as band aids anymore. Yeah. So for that reason   for that reason,   the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. It is Connection. It's connection. Exactly.  

[00:51:23] Unknown:

Well, when I think about,   oh god. What is it called? I think it was like the the rat   town   mouse Rat park. Rat park. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is what I'm used to. You probably can explain it better than I can. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So the rat park is a Fascinating experiment.  

[00:51:42] Unknown:

Red Park,   was convict,   conducted a long time ago. I think it was in the seventies at the When we tried the first, maybe even earlier.   So what what it was was,   rats   in   A cage.   And they were giving 2 water bottles, 1 with water, the other 1 laced with,   with an opioid.   And all the rats tried both, and then they went exclusively to the one with opioid opioids, and they dragged themselves to death.   And then there was a smart person in there who said, hold on a minute.   This is not a very,   Can we really rely on the data from this experiment? Shouldn't we make it more,   does this really tell us anything about the rats, about the rat brains? In order to draw proper conclusions, maybe we should try to study rats in their in a more natural environment.  

Because at that time, we absolutely understood that the environment has an impact On our brains.   So what they did was that they took away the floors the, fluorescent lights.   No people in there anymore. No, no giant,   The   no giants in white coats, so picking them up in their tails and   harassing them. And they gotta act they got a much, much bigger,   A place. They got toys. They got access to friends and sex and food.   And so they had rat's paradise. They built rat park.   And in Rat Park,   they also had 2 water bottles, 1 with water, the other 1 laced with opioids.   All the rats tried both,   but they never went back to the one with opioids.  

And there's   There's an even bigger experiment   that did the exact same thing   on humans,   and that is the Vietnam war.   In the Vietnam war, we sent   teenagers, basically.   I can say they're teenagers now because I'm approaching my My forties, Susan, and and they were 18 year olds. So to me, they're teenagers.   So we sent we sent these young,   young men into a foreign country,   they they didn't know what Vietnam was. Didn't know what the Vietnamese person was. This was   This was back in the sixties. Mhmm. Like, it it was very, very terrifying for them.   The the world is a lot smaller now than it was then,   And this was, terrifying. They could just as well have been fighting aliens.  



[00:54:12] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:54:13] Unknown:

So they went to this,   this in place to to,   to die and to fight.   They were far from home. They were hungry. They were scared and they Didn't want to be there.   A lot of these young men   lost connection with everything. They became depressed and they started using   Heroin, they started injecting heroin because it was very prevalent. There, there was a lot of heroin there.   And this sparked,   This created a, a lot of people in the states were very worried about this, that they were gonna have this,   this   Like an, like a zombie, our army of heroin addicts coming back to the states.   But what they found was that the people who   had something to come back to,   a context   like a partner, a family,   school or a job,   they Could quit heroin cold turkey   after having used it for for several months, sometimes years,   Injected injecting heroin.  

It was no problem   quitting   as substance   abuse   If they had connection.   Yeah. And this really proves that oh, well, it doesn't prove, but it really suggests that   The opposite of addiction isn't sobriety is connection. Yeah.   As long as you have connection, you're pretty much fine.  

[00:55:41] Unknown:

And and it I'd look at it as holistic connection too. It's not just   connections with the loved one or connection with,   your path, your purpose. It's not just connection with nature. It truly is all of those ingredients, not certainly at exactly the same dose. You know?   But I think   it is important to look at your life holistically   because,   clearly, if, like, 1 area is really lop cited and suffering, and you're not feeling nourished, connected, fulfilled on point,   then it does drag the rest of the unit down. You know? And so to me, I I think it's so important for I am a lot older than you, and I think it's important for   people to not wait till they're having your midlife crisis   to start waking up to realize, like, you can't keep kicking the can down the road in this one area and neglect it and thinking that you're just doing okay because this over here is doing okay. Like, you've really it your life is a system. You know? It's a holistic system that is inextricably   interconnected,   and you can't,   you know, everything touches each other. They all you know, all the parts of the system touch each each other. And   so,   I just that's to me a very important   painful lesson that I had to learn the hard way,   you know,   which is fine. I got the lesson. Thank God. But,   but it's one of those   things that it it really truly is. Like, I I call I'm writing a book called Snap Goes the Mommy,   and I'm also writing Bitcoin for Peace. Why am I writing 2 books? Because I'm a psychopath. That's why.  

But they're 2 different totally different things. But but I talk about, like, filling your soul hole. You know, it's like you feel this emptiness inside, and I say, you know,   that's that itch. Right? And so it's like you've got your five d's, your your diamonds, drugs, donuts, digital, and dicks.   And those are things that people try to   consume   in excess to make up for whatever that that   emptiness or that lack of connection, that lack of fulfillment is in one of these areas. And it's like, it will never fill it up because it's not the same   size. You know? It's all it's just like you're having 2 holes. It leaks out, and then it causes negative impact on your life and and your body, obviously, and in mind.  

So I think it's really   it's important to have awareness   around   What are we doing? Are we consuming too much social media because we're trying to check out? Are we consuming   too much sugar, junk food, or are we consuming negative people? Whatever our our consumption model is, it's like,   is this serving   spirit, God, universe, cosmos, whatever you call it, but it's like when you have that connection with   yourself and this infinite,   creation and knowing that you are part of it, just like you said, we're Nate your nature. Like,   then you can feel like, wow. This stuff is not   healthy. This isn't serving me. This isn't serving my mission, my purpose, why I'm here.  

So it is easier to say goodbye to them, you know, and change your behavior because you are connected   to this higher truth   that is love, that is you know, I say god, but I don't know. You can call it Fred. I don't care.   You know,   whatever people call it. You know?   Do you I've heard you use the word cosmos a few times.   Do you say cosmos in place of universe, god? Like, what what's your thoughts on all the letters that people put in a row to call this great mystery? History. I don't back down for using the word god, but I use it, differently than a lot of other people do. Mhmm.  

[00:59:24] Unknown:

When I say the cosmos, I I literally mean the cosmos.   I mean, all of existence   And realizing that, I mean, it sounds   trite. It sounds Trivial, but, I mean, we we are the universe.   Mhmm. We're like, there's   there's   Of what else wood would be? Exactly.   So   but I   I also use the word God.   Like I I've been an atheist all my life,   but   I've   I've seen some things that have have changed my   my view on God, and I also have a   philosophical   argument   About what   how would you define God differently? So when people ask you if you   if you believe in God or something like that,   it's   You should always ask them for a definition because   Mhmm. There is no ubiquitous ubiquitous definition.  

And for that reason, it's very hard to know what you're,   what you are,   taking taking a stance on.   So one of the   Definitions of God that I have is a very   techno philosophical one,   which is,   which has to do with the simulation theory.  

[01:00:49] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:00:50] Unknown:

So if we,   as a technological civilization,   can   creates,   ancestor simulations like like we already do with the video games like Assassin's creed and these games, they are ancestor simulations.   And if we can imbue   these Sims   with not just intelligence,   but proper consciousness once we understand what consciousness is, whether that is,   Like a universal   field in the universe that we just need a sufficiently complex enough structure to filter and and receive or whether it's Bottom up process that is entirely   biological or silicon based.   Whenever we can   Grasp what   makes consciousness, and we can give it to these   beings that we have created life in the digital world.  

And   they will   eventually   probably go on to build their own   ancestor simulations,   in their own games,   and they will   and they will create the next level of reality. So that means that   reality is fractal.   And if we can do that, that should lead to a spiritual awakening   where we realize   that if we can do it,   we are probably not the first.   That means that we probably have creators. We are probably in assimilations   ourselves.   Yeah. I love this. And that would mean that we   have gods.   They would be our creators.   And if we we are the gods to the assassin creed people,   If we can give them consciousness, we are their gods. You are their god. I am their god. Wow.  

And if we can create beings, then we there there's a a an incredibly   small chance that we are the 1st in the in in this endless Chain, this fractal nature of of reality.   So,   I mean, this, the simulation hypothesis It's   by Nick Bostrom, a a Swedish philosopher,   working at Harvard.   And the the, simulation hypothesis, it's it's   Incredibly difficult to argue against if you read the the core tenets of that   of that paper.   So,   wouldn't have to go deeper into that, but it's a it's a fascinating paper.   And it's very, very difficult to argue against that we are That we are not in a simulation.   So that is one definition of God that I find very interesting,   but it's not really what people refer to when they say God.  

So for that, like, what people actually mean when they say God.   If you have a psychedelic breakthrough,   You can   experience that your your entire being, your entire soul, like you you your body dissolves,   Your name disappears, your memories disappears, and you are just pure consciousness. And your pure consciousness is catapulted into the center of the cosmos   And merges with the 1 big giant consciousness,   and that is,   source.   And   When you are in that place, you can feel that you are   that it it's a very familiar place. You feel that this is where I come from, and this is where I'm going back Once I'm done with this human experience   and being in the present of presence of that thing, whatever that is.  

I have no better word than God for that.  

[01:04:37] Unknown:

It's magic.  

[01:04:38] Unknown:

And as,   And when you come back from that experience,   one of the most important thing that I realized that is that   This human experience is a very spiritual experience, and the most spiritual thing we can do as human beings is to be   Fully present   in this human experience.   Yeah.  

[01:05:02] Unknown:

Yeah. Can you see let me see. Is it over here? Here.   Be here now. Have you read this book by Ram Dass?  

[01:05:10] Unknown:

I have not read Ram Dass. I have consumed quite a bit, on YouTube, but I have not actually read his book now. Dude, Oh my god. Yeah. Hold on. You got it's I gotta you gotta get this.   Oh my gosh. I mean, I mean, it's on my list. It's, on my eye. It's on my psychedelic. Yeah. This is my this is my gateway to,  

[01:05:30] Unknown:

and it's such a cool book because he wrote it with all this crazy manuscript. Wow. I know. That's amazing.  

[01:05:37] Unknown:

It's insane. This is Looks like a quick read as well. It's it's,  

[01:05:41] Unknown:

the white pages are like, this is recipe books on meditation and stuff at the back. The beginning's a tiny bit of   his, his history and his story, but like   just all of these things are so   I I swear I, when I was, so when I was 19,   this book fell off the shelf of a lie. I was at the library visiting my mom in Arizona, and I love purple. So I was like, oh, purple book in the self help spiritual section. Yay. And When I saw it, I was just like, oh, cool. It's weird. And   completely changed my life, you know, just his whole journey through, you know,   being a a Harvard,   you know, psychiatrist   and doctor and everything, and then   discovering psychedelics with Timothy Leary and everything, and I'm just like, woah.  

But really the the act of being present,   you know, is really the job of of us as humans, because we true because we are we are our monkey minds are in the past or the future, and it's like, those are false. Those aren't even real. They're just constructs. You know? And so Yep. This is it right here, right now. Be here now. You know? And  

[01:06:50] Unknown:

the more that you gift that we have. We have this incredible power to   we have a time machine in our brains. Like, we are the only species that we know that have a time machine in in   wherever we go. We bring our brains with us, and our brain is a time machine. We can Yeah. We can remember the past and we can create scenarios in the past. We can think about the future and we can create scenarios in the future.   And that is a form of, That is a mental time machine, and it's an incredibly   powerful tool   that also comes with,   with great responsibility.  

Mhmm.   It is, it is a difficult tool to manage, and we are not spiritually enlightened enough to to carry around this time machine in our brains.   But I think we would be if we hadn't ostracized these, I think it's definitely, I don't know about you, but like,  

[01:07:44] Unknown:

you know, doing psychedelics.   I've been doing psychedelics for almost 40 years.   So,   So   it's been a minute.   You know,   I feel like they have   made me who I am a 100%,   but it's not something that I   do often.   You know? I do them with intentionality,   you know, and there were times, you know, certainly when I was DJing and being a crazy person.   I did them a bit more, but, you know, I'm a mom now. I'm a single mom. And,   so it's a lot more intentional, but, like,   I can't imagine who I would be without  

[01:08:25] Unknown:

these, this, this, just that goes for, that goes for all of. Yeah. Yeah.   And I'm so sorry. I was just gonna say that that goes for all of humanity.   Yeah. Like   we,   we had this   Kind of interesting short discussion in my, Bitcoin and psychedelics Telegram group the other day. I need to be in your Bitcoin and psychedelics Telegram Groove, give me guys, sign me up. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, you are, you're definitely going to be in it. It's like quite kind of small group, but it's very, it's very,   We're, we're not even 50 people. Yeah. And it's, it's a, I love it. I just love it. I love the people there. It's such a warm place to hang out. It's, So it's the it's the first   when I really have an urge to check my social media.  

That   Group has a special place in my heart. It's not just that's not checking social media. That's checking in on my people. Yeah. Your your tribe, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It I just love it. It's, I'm so proud to to have made this group, and it's it's growing organically, and it's I just love it. Oh, gosh. I love it too. So, Yeah. So, yeah, of course, you're gonna be in it. So, someone posted,   an image   In in   in our group the other day, and it was an   AI generated image. I think it would it went kind of viral on X, The other day as well, it was this image where someone had prompted   the AI to give them a very normal looking image. No further,   prompt. Prompting. Just give me a normal image. And then it gave them, an image, and then they said, make it more normal, and just kept pushing it.  

And what it generated eventually was this just a street with cars and houses,   but it had this like really psychedelic   vibe to it. Interesting. And, yeah, and that was very interesting. And this was the observation of the person who posted it.   And I thought then that,   well,   AI   is   humanity's   mirror.   Mhmm. Having been trained on the collective,   corpus of human knowledge of,   modern man. And so humanity is shaped   Humanity is shaped by psychedelics through our history. Yeah. So   so looking deep enough into the mirror that is AI, It should reveal something   we'd associate with a psychedelic experience.  

So when you push a GPT or an AI   far enough, deep enough,   You're eventually going going to find something psychedelic because   AI   is is us. We AI is us, and we are A psychedelic,   species.   So I just find it fascinating that it it seems to be in there as well, in the same sense that it is in us.  

[01:11:17] Unknown:

I think that's so interesting. I know I my I play with Midjourney a lot. I love Midjourney, and I'm still kind of learning the other ones, but I'm always putting in psychedelic as one of the words because I wanna see what it thinks, you know, and sometimes I'll be like, make me a DMT forest or   LSD   earth, you know? And so it's like fun to see what it thinks   that is, you know? And,   Obviously, I I'm curious. I I wanna see what the the   the AIs are gonna do when we're actually allowed to be not censored with the words that we choose.   Like, I wanna see it, like, make Yeah. Sexy art and do stuff that's not limited. Like, oh, you're not allowed to use that word. And I'm like, Mhmm. Okay, grandma. There's a lot of fill there are a lot of filters on. Yeah. But imagine the people who are creating these AIs, they have access to the unfiltered versions the versions,  

[01:12:10] Unknown:

And,   I envy them.  

[01:12:13] Unknown:

I know. It would be interesting. Like, I would like to see   just what's what's   What's out there? You know? What other things can because just some of the artwork that gets spit out from these things, I'm like, my mind's eye has never seen that ever. Like, I've never dreamed up these images, you know, and it's just like, wow. What else what other images or or   imagination is out there that is,   unharnessed. You know? Like, let it be free. And so I one day, maybe we'll have that. I mean, I get wanting to have some guardrails and protections on there for sure, but I'm also   It's like,  

[01:12:49] Unknown:

just a little Yeah. We're we're navigating these new this new territory.   We, we don't know how   These tools could be used,   for evil,   for bad, to harm because they are powerful tools, and we are gonna have to,   find a way to incorporate them into society for, and we're gonna have to democratize them very well. Yeah.   And hopefully   find a way to   like, we do with all technologies that we ever have created. Like, they're gonna bring more good than bad eventually.   But some but the more   like, the better the tools   are that we invent the more potential for harm they also   have.  

So, I mean, it's a it is a real concern.   And the the best we can do right now is probably just to have filters on them. I don't know what else we could do really.  

[01:13:46] Unknown:

I agree. I think it's okay to have them for now. And I think, you know,   I look at   us in our hearts as humans. Right? And it's like, sure. We can go put the little regulator on the AI or whatever it is so that, you know, we're safe to some degree. However,   I would love for us to continue to evolve   from within   so that we're not out there becoming people who would want to abuse or misuse   the technologies. And so as much as we're building,   build, build, build fast, fast, fast, like, I want to see the internal building   match the speed. You know? The intention of the internal building, it's not, you know, it's nature. It doesn't take it's not overnight where we get to, you know, evolve our consciousness in   into becoming these, you know,   higher level operating beings. We're Still humans. We're animals. We're stupid. We have fear. We operate from back here. So it's like   we want to keep training ourselves to operate from here as much as to me as much as possible. I think that's one of my goals is, you know, before I die, I want to hopefully   leave the world a little more loving and be more loving that I found it, you know, and and   create a a better world for our kids and all these other   generations that will come after. So,   so, yeah, I can talk to you for 10000 hours on this so we   We have to do some more episodes.  



[01:15:17] Unknown:

Yeah. Let's do that. I mean, there are a lot of topics that we haven't touched on, I think.  

[01:15:23] Unknown:

Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. Let's do some panels too. Like, I was just thinking even before you mentioned your Telegram group, I was like, oh, we gotta get Tomer and some of my or other,   journey and Eric Kayson and some other guys.   Maybe we'll do some panels and talk about   consciousness and Bitcoin and psychedelics and love and peace and all that stuff. What are you doing on New Year's Eve? Maybe we'll do a new year. I was just thinking I wanna host a New Year's Eve spaces maybe.  

[01:15:49] Unknown:

New year's Eve. I am on a bus   from   Stockholm   back here. Cool.  

[01:15:58] Unknown:

What's in, what are you doing in Stockholm?  

[01:16:00] Unknown:

That's where I have my, my parents and my siblings and my siblings. Oh, cool. Okay. I, I am, I am from Stockholm originally, But now, I mean, this is a small town Cool.   Moved a few years back,  

[01:16:11] Unknown:

but just going back to see see my folks. Nice. Well, maybe I I might do a New Year's Eve and a New Year's Day thing. I don't know. It'll be fun to get everybody together and talk about what are our dreams for the This year, what did we learn this last year? La la la. All that. Yeah.  

[01:16:25] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:16:26] Unknown:

I love doing that.   So okay. So,   thanks for I know we've gone over time a lot, so thank you for sharing all this time with me. I really appreciate it, Ayani.  

[01:16:37] Unknown:

I appreciate it too, Valerie. Yeah.  

[01:16:40] Unknown:

Always have a blessed talking with you. I know. It's fun. Right? Like, it's so easy to go in and it's like dancing with all this fun   energy and thoughts and stuff. So I'm excited to know you and get to know you some more. Tell,   if if you were to you know, if somebody was on the fence like you. Right? So let's say we've got a 31 year old listening to this episode   who is not a Bitcoiner   and has not delved into a psychedelic. What would you say to that person who's,   you know, curious, but hasn't taken the leap yet?  

[01:17:11] Unknown:

I wouldn't say anything. I would listen to them.  

[01:17:15] Unknown:

But somebody who's someone who's listening to this episode that you can't hear. So Mhmm. If if if they're out there, what what might you say to that person, I love your answer. 1st of all, that was a great answer, but I'm gonna push you a little further.  

[01:17:27] Unknown:

Sure.   Well,   Say, if you are curious about I mean, if you listen this far into the episode, you're either a psychonaut or a Bitcoiner or very curious about Either of those.   And if you   are contemplating,   Taking the leap into a psychedelic experience,   you should define   your purpose.   Mhmm. And it it may be just exploratory. I mean, every purpose is fine Mhmm. But you should define it.   And what I think you should do is,   is like it's the same thing with Bitcoin. You shouldn't maybe,   throw your   A dirty fiat money added for, the first thing you do. You should study it.   You should study it until you feel that this is for you because   So because psychedelics are not for everybody. Right. And we should respect them   Very highly because they're incredibly potent   substances.  

However,   that said   As a human being,   you are probably going to realize that you have been deprived of something that is   innate to the human experience   that   You   would probably see that it's difficult   to make the most of the human experience and to become a complete human being without having these spirit this   these spiritual experiences.   And I think that if you are not going to be,   monk meditating for 40 years straight,   You are probably going to need,   these substances   to get to that place Yeah.   To see what   what lies beyond   to see that there's   More to,   the human emotional spectrum that there is more to the, to than physical reality as we think of it that there is more to life.  

I think life without   a psychedelic experience is   It's a life not fully lived.  

[01:19:55] Unknown:

I love it. Oh, that's a good oh, that's a bow right at the end of there.   Oh my gosh. That's so good. It is. I I agree completely. It's kind of like getting   a box of crayons, and you only have a couple colors   instead of getting the whole box of crayons with all of the colors to play with. I think of it like Honestly, it's kinda like having a box of crayons, which is black, white, and gray. Oh god. Yeah. That's not That's not a ray I'm obviously a rainbow girl, so I give me all the colors.  

[01:20:28] Unknown:

There is a reason why,   psychedelic   Arts,   is very colorful.  

[01:20:36] Unknown:

Yeah.   It is. And well, and it's like we do. You've it's It's not that you're constantly like It's not just that it's it's like, it happens. It it changes your,  

[01:20:46] Unknown:

what you see, like how you perceive sight. That obviously changes a lot. Yeah. But but it's,   the fact that psychedelic art is very colorful   Goes deeper than that. It's a it's a symbol for what how colorful life becomes. It's not just the visual aspects of it. Yeah. It's amazing. It is. It's a multisensory,  

[01:21:08] Unknown:

awakening,   I think, you know, and it's really, really powerful, and it's a never ending journey until you die. You know? There's no like, yay, I did it. And I'm I'm got my PhD in psychedelics. Woo hoo. Congratulate. You know? They're it's like, no. You're just constantly in,   you know,   exploration and unfolding mode. And So that's Yeah. I think that's super important   for people to get. It's not just don't ever expect like, yay, I did this one time or 3 times, and now I'm,   I've got all the answers to the universe or whatever. It's like, it opens up more questions sometimes than the answer,  

[01:21:43] Unknown:

you know? Yes. I think that's really neat. It's a lifelong relationship with the, with the teachers. Yeah.   Yeah. And as long as you maintain that,   very important relationship with these teachers, and they don't become crutches. Exactly.   That is very Important, but they will tell you when you are using them for the wrong reasons. Yeah. Yeah. And and and really listening and tuning into  

[01:22:10] Unknown:

that truth. You know? Yes. And and I think that's something for all of us to remember because it's easy to   to tune into the noise and think that that's actually signal, and it's like, no. The signal is a little deeper and softer,   and,   your nervous system sits a certain way when you hear truth versus the static, you know, and so I really,   I I meditate every day, and I love sitting and being you know, not everybody can sit.   But I think it's important to develop your own level of practice to start tuning into   signal versus noise and what is outside   societal programming and what is actually your own divine truths in that that channel.  

So   so it takes, you know, a lifetime or many probably, who knows, to get to that, you know,   level. So there's a I'm a student first always, but hey. So check this out so people can go to,   where is it? Come here to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to consensus network and go get your book, abundance or scarcity.  

[01:23:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Go to,   bitcoin book dot shop.  

[01:23:19] Unknown:

Okay. Bitcoin book dot shop.  

[01:23:21] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. It's also on Amazon, but it's, it's cheaper on  

[01:23:25] Unknown:

a Bitcoin book dot shop. And why not buy it from there? Because there you can buy it for as well. It's great. And there's a bunch of other books, like, from Bitcoiners on this from consensus network. So these guys are awesome. I I gotta get this book. So,   yeah, I'm excited. Maybe I'll just do that.   For you at in Madeira. Oh my god. I can't wait. That's gonna be such a great Such a great jam. Okay. So people can go to Bitcoin book dot shop,   and then they can also go to hold on. I gotta get this other. I'm still learning Riverside here. Go, I want them to go follow you at your YouTube channel.  

[01:23:59] Unknown:

Oh, please. Yes. I'm working on a, on a video right now. You are? Yeah. About, about the lightning network.   Oh, cool. Okay. That's good. Because in El Salvador, I just completely fell in love with the lightning network.   I am so grateful to have had that to get to live basically   on a personal Bitcoin standard using   lightning in society on a daily basis for 3 weeks Straight.  

[01:24:25] Unknown:

That's so cool. I can't wait to see this video. I know. It's like when you I don't know. I called it hope,   hope in action, like, down in El Salvador. It's not just a bunch of talk. It's like inaction. It's hope in action. It's work. Yeah. Like, they're actually demonstrating that This is superior money. Yeah. And it changed in society in a very fundamental  

[01:24:45] Unknown:

way.  

[01:24:46] Unknown:

It does. And I think it just being around   the positivity   of people. I mean, it's not perfect. It's not Disneyland or something where it's you know, we have some illusions that everything is all of a sudden fixed and perfect, but   but there is that when you have hope in your life and you have something to look forward to and you feel   safe again after all of those years of not feeling safe for these folks,   I mean, what a what a burden, what a weight. It's like taking off a big giant wet cloak of of heaviness, you know? And so   I I just I felt such a good feeling there too. So I'm I can't wait to see your video and   see what you'd come up with from that.  

So,   alright. So is the the best way for everybody to find you,   on on X or Twitter or YouTube? Where should everybody go?  

[01:25:34] Unknown:

On X, it would be at yoniappelberg,   I o n I a p p e l b e r g. And on YouTube, it's the same. It might just my name, Yoni Appelberg. Awesome.  

[01:25:45] Unknown:

Yeah. We'll make sure you guys go follow Yoni, and,   I can't wait to see what you're building with the the videos, and I can't wait to see you in Portugal.   Woo hoo. Yay, Madeira. That's gonna be such a oh my god.   Can't wait. Yeah. I gotta start getting some I don't know. I gotta put my set together. I mean, I don't ever put a set together, but I have to start thinking about what time we're gonna do stuff and how to organize that 1st night. So that's gonna be really fun.   Yeah. Anybody who's not going, go to go to, it's I think it's Bitcoin Atlantis.   Yeah. Yeah. It's Bitcoin at land not Atlantis Bitcoin, Bitcoin atlantis.com.  

Gonna be just one hell of a lineup. We're gonna have a good time. So yeah.   Alright, my friend. I'm so glad that we got Spend this time together. I'm sure we'll do some more episodes here and and, who knows? Maybe we'll see each other on, New Year's Day if we if I I'll organize something for everybody. Yeah. Sure. I'm I'm done with that. Alright. Cool. Alright. Well, peace, love, and warm aloha, everybody. We'll tune in to y'all next time, and thanks for tuning in to Bitcoin for Peace. Woo hoo.   Thanks, Yoni. Alright. I'm stopping it.