In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dave Bradley, co-founder of Bull Bitcoin, who is known as the strongest and best-looking Bitcoin entrepreneur in Canada. We dive into a variety of topics, starting with Dave's love for Alberta beef, particularly the Brant Lake Wagyu, a cross between Japanese Wagyu and Alberta Black Angus. Dave shares his journey into Bitcoin, starting in 2010, and how he co-founded Bull Bitcoin with Francis Pouliot in 2018.
We discuss the importance of self-custody in Bitcoin and the potential for new models of custody that maintain legal ownership for users. Dave also shares insights into the Bitcoin Rodeo conference, which focuses on Bitcoin's real-world applications and includes a mix of comedy and serious discussions. We touch on the broader implications of Bitcoin on government and society, exploring the potential for a future with more decentralized governance and the challenges of transitioning to a Bitcoin standard. Throughout the conversation, we reflect on the current state of the world, the role of Bitcoin in addressing systemic issues, and the importance of security and privacy in the digital age.
https://x.com/BitcoinBrains
https://bitcoinbrains.com/
Co-Founder
https://x.com/BullBitcoin_
https://www.bullbitcoin.com/
Board
https://x.com/TheBitcoinWell
https://bitcoinwell.com/
https://x.com/TheBitcoinRodeo
https://bitcoinrodeo.com/
Resources discussed in this episode include:
🔥 LISTEN TO EPISODE HERE
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(00:00:36) Introduction to Dave Bradley
(00:01:25) The Meat Enthusiast
(00:05:03) Bitcoin Beginnings
(00:06:32) Bitcoin Rodeo and Events
(00:08:30) Recycling Realities
(00:14:11) Plastic and Environmental Concerns
(00:18:34) Bitcoin as a Solution
(00:24:55) Bull Bitcoin's Origin
(00:31:32) Custody and Security in Bitcoin
(00:37:32) Bitcoin's Impact on Personal Finance
(00:47:38) Government and Bitcoin
(00:52:51) Future of Governance
(01:05:30) Personal Responsibility and Healing
(01:12:55) Economic Collapse and Bitcoin
(01:20:33) Future of Currency
(01:23:21) Bitcoin Rodeo Event Overview
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[00:00:33]
Unknown:
Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Welcome to the show. I have somebody here with me who is, you know, notably and verifiably the strongest and best looking Bitcoin entrepreneur in Canada, Dave Bradley, the cofounder of Bull Bitcoin. Welcome, Dave. Thank you for having me. So you're you're outside, it seems like, and you're enjoying a little cigar this beautiful afternoon. What's happening, my brother?
[00:01:00] Unknown:
Well, it's March in Canada, and it's, like, six degrees Celsius, so that's pretty good. So I'm outside.
[00:01:07] Unknown:
You're like, yay. It's a warm day. And I know you I think you saw like I was, I was grilling outside a little bit ago. You know, I like grilling in the snow. There's just something about that. And it's like, yay, it's snowing. And there's meat on the grill. That's such a good thing. Let's talk about your meat fetish. Like, you have a meat thing going on. Before we get into all the other backstory of who's Dave Bradley and, all the things that you're doing with the Bitcoin rodeo and Bitcoin well, what's up with the meat?
[00:01:39] Unknown:
Well, I mean, meat is very important, obviously. It's what humans need to eat to live. It's an important part of a plant based diet. The things that I eat eat plants, so the diet is plant based. And, yeah, I mean, I I think, we're lucky here in Alberta to have the best beef in the world. So I talk that up a lot. And, you know, we we have this stuff called Brent Lake Wagyu. It's a cross between, Japanese Wagyu and an Alberta black Angus. So it's like, you know, you get Wagyu sometimes, and it's like it's like eating a stick of butter because it's just like it's so good, but it's just like very, very fatty, and you can, like, cut it with a fork. But it doesn't have, like, a ton of flavor beyond the fat. So the brand like Wagyu crossed with the black Angus has a much beefier taste and is still just, like, absolutely beautiful and marbled.
And I've never found beef that matches it anywhere in the world, and I talk a lot of shit about this. And everyone who's tried it has agreed with me.
[00:02:40] Unknown:
Okay. And so has this been your lifestyle for, you know, your whole life, or did you all of a sudden realize, like, I really need to eat, you know, a lot of of cow?
[00:02:52] Unknown:
And, you know Yeah. I mean, I think I think men, especially, we grow up with this kinda wired into our our the primitive parts of our brains that we're supposed to be eating meat. Like, that's the most desirable form of calories that we can take in. And, so I I always had that growing up, but, like, I actually grew up, eating terrible steaks. My parents cooked well done steaks and I ate ketchup.
[00:03:13] Unknown:
Oh, yeah, dude. Me too. It's like It was not good. Steaks, and you're just like, can I just have a grilled cheese, please?
[00:03:20] Unknown:
Yeah. And and it wasn't until adulthood that I discovered this Brant Lake Wagyu and, since then have been like, that's probably the main thing that I eat is the Brant Lake Wagyu.
[00:03:30] Unknown:
Say say the first part, Brant Wag?
[00:03:33] Unknown:
Brent Lake. Brent Lake. Okay. Thank you. It's a ranch in Southern Alberta, and they've got a butcher shop here in Calgary Okay. That I highly recommend. And then I was lucky enough to, was lucky enough to get a half of a pig from a Bitcoiner that I know who, he sells these, milk fed pigs. Okay. Milk fed pigs? I've never heard of this. Yeah. Neither had I. And they they have a couple dairy cows that they, they basically feed the pigs this mixture of, like, all the grains and stuff that they they normally would give them. Mhmm. But they they ferment them in fresh whole milk for a day. Fermented grains in fresh whole milk. Yeah. And so they they feed the pigs this mixture of, like, one day fermented milk and all the oats and whatever else they're feeding them and, supposedly helps with the digestion of the pigs, but the result is, like, the best pork I've ever had. It's like it's like red, like beef.
It's crazy.
[00:04:30] Unknown:
I know. And I'm I'm a fan I mean, I had those sausages today because I had sausage and steak, and I love love sausage. But it's like, you never know what the heck's inside of the ones that you get, and you you gotta be careful what you're getting, you know? Because it's sometimes it could just be the junk food leftovers of whatever. And Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And so I think that's an important thing. So, yeah, I think, you know, did you guys did you and Francis come up with bull Bitcoin because you guys love, you know, meat or because of bull markets? Or let's let's kinda come back to, like, who you are. Let's get, you know, come back to, hey. Hi. I'm Dave Bradley. I'm this, this, and this is my history.
You know, so let's let the audience know who you are, how you got to this place, you know, how you started bull Bitcoin and, you know, we'll go from there. Sure. Sure. My, the short version, I guess, I got into Bitcoin in 02/2010.
[00:05:18] Unknown:
I started working full time in Bitcoin in 2013 when I opened what I think was the first physical Bitcoin store in the world. Okay. We later merged the company behind that into another company to form Bull Bitcoin, in about 2018. Francis and I formed that. The name for Bull Bitcoin, I like, we were just kinda going back and forth with a bunch of different names, and that was the one that kinda
[00:05:42] Unknown:
stuck. And I think it it has proven to be a pretty iconic name. So a great name. I mean, obviously, you know, our goal is to have bull markets and bull runs and, you know Yeah. Obviously, don't mess with the bull, and we love meat. So it seems like it checks a lot of boxes.
[00:05:56] Unknown:
Yeah. And so, so I was with Bull Bitcoin there until, the early twenty twenty, at which point I left to start a software company making Bitcoin, software for Bitcoin ATMs. Oh, wow. And that that got me pulled into I ended up partnering up with, Adam O'Brien, who is CEO of Bitcoin Well now. Bitcoin Well. Yeah. Up on that software company. And that kinda got me sucked into Bitcoin Well, where I joined to take the company public, and, we went through that process. And then I I left my executive position there last year. No. Twenty twenty three. And, but I'm still on the board there. And since I've been sort of working on a bunch of small projects and doing some consulting and also have, an events and media company that we, we run a number of different things, including a conference called the, Bitcoin Rodeo, which is this June in Calgary, Alberta.
[00:06:49] Unknown:
June. I know. I've looked up at this site. Who's gonna be there? Like, because I'm I'm like, I need to get my butt up there and play some music with you guys and do some some talking. Hint hint.
[00:06:59] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. We we we would love to have you. We'd love to come, man. I would be so much We've got a we've got a pretty good lineup. You can check it out on bitcoinrodeo.com.
[00:07:08] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Let me I'm pulling this up right now here. So okay. Because let me pull it up because I've got Bitcoin let me share the screen here. Hold on here. Bitcoin rodeo. There we go. Alberta's Bitcoin conference. Okay. So
[00:07:24] Unknown:
so this is what I've got here. Where's the lineup? Yeah. So you can scroll there, if you just grab on to where the speakers are with Francis and Nico, etcetera there. Okay. Scroll to the right. Scroll to the right and to the left. Yep. You can see a bunch more of the speakers we've got there. We've got a a pretty good lineup of, we got a lot of Canadians as always, and, we have a really strong sort of core of Bitcorners here in Calgary as well. Mhmm. We got a bunch coming out from Vancouver and whatnot, and then we're we're really dipping into sort of, like, the freedom community as well. So you can see some people on there, like, like, Brett Olin there, who's the CEO of a company called, Bow Valley Credit Union, which is a credit union here in Alberta that, has been very pro Bitcoin and has been pro gold. And so they're actually putting, gold on the balance sheet of the bank so that if the entire financial system collapses, their depositors will have more than nothing, basically.
And, they haven't been able to do it from a regulatory perspective yet with, with Bitcoin, but they're quite pro Bitcoin, and we're working with them on a few different initiatives. So, that I think is is the way to go. You know, the small banks, get your money out of the big banks and and find a place that, will not abuse your trust the way that the large banks do.
[00:08:39] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it's obviously, we're seeing a lot of different regulations come forward and hopefully I mean, who the heck knows? I mean, you know, obviously, here in The United States, it's different than what's going on in Canada. And we still love you, Canada. Like, whatever the hell these retarded politicians are doing, like, fuck them. Yeah, you know, seriously, I'm so over this. And I I was just doing a little post, remember the who, this, you know, meet the old boss, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I mean, we are getting fooled again, but we're not. You know? And I feel like it's just such a nightmare. And, you know, Bitcoin solves for this. What were you doing before you were, you know, in 2010 being a Bitcoiner?
[00:09:20] Unknown:
You know? I, I was kinda like a serial entrepreneur. Mhmm. I had just sold I had a company. We were doing recycling, actually, in the city of Calgary. We had a bunch of trucks trucks going around picking up people's recycling before there was a city system, and and also before I learned that recycling was a giant scam. But, part of part of running that company did expose me to that and sort of got that was that was sort of some of the first first times I would be in my twenties, when I was exposed to the fact that, you know, a lot of the structures that we see that make up the world that are sort of endorsed by the traditional powers that be are actually just bullshit.
[00:10:00] Unknown:
They're bullshit. What what was your crack into that? Like, how did did you just see, like, recycling's not happening, the funding's going somewhere else? Like, what was the Yeah. So you know, veil that got removed?
[00:10:11] Unknown:
Yeah. Once I dug into it, I learned that, like, the only thing that actually makes sense outright to recycle is metal because it's it's a lot more expensive to dig new metal out of the ground and refine it than it is to recycle old metal. Okay. And it's also there it's also much more environmentally friendly to not have to dig another giant hole in the ground. So metal recycling makes sense unequivocally. Paper recycling is kinda like a wash. Like, it's a renewable resource, and it's, like, costs pretty similar for the recycled paper at this point. And there's lots of good things they can make with recycled paper.
Glass is just basically fake. Like, glass is made out of silicone or sand. Right? So, like, it's the most plentiful element on Earth. We don't need to recycle that at all, and there's not really possible to recycle glass. Gets made into, like, reflective paint and fiberglass, technically, but you could just make that out of primary materials. And then the biggest scam, though, is the plastics recycling, which is not even a real thing. We were paying a company, essentially, to ship our plastics to China for recycling. Mhmm. And, you know, that was before we kinda learned about how plastics recycling works. And it you know, you can't really just recycle a mixed blend of plastics. You need to separate them by polymer and color and all this stuff.
And, it's just not realistic. And so I I speculate. You know, you've heard of this, like, giant Pacific garbage patch. Mhmm. I I think that is actually all of the recycled plastic from North America for the last Recycled years. Basically, like, we just dumped that shit here and didn't actually recycle it. Yeah. Yeah. They they they pay a Chinese company to take it. They have no use for it on the other end Yeah. Because it's not actually recyclable. So cheapest thing for them is to just get out into the ocean and dump it into the ocean.
[00:11:53] Unknown:
And so was there any traceability? You know? Like, you know, obviously, this was back in, you know, before 2010. You know? You could stick a little Yeah. What is it? Those air tags on the Yeah. The patch and just be like, where the heck is this stuff going? And you're like, woah. I'm in, you know Yeah. Near Fiji or something or whatnot. Fiji is too south, but,
[00:12:11] Unknown:
near Yeah. We we we never we never had any way to trace it. I have seen some some YouTubes and whatnot of people who have traced the recycling lately. And one thing that you find that actually makes more sense than sending it to China is that in a lot of cases, they're just bailing it and then burying it. And that's what they do here in Calgary. You know, that there's a city of Calgary program is they just bury the plastic, underground at the landfill. So very similar to what they do with regular garbage. But their whole thing is, like, we're waiting to see if markets develop.
And if they do, we'll dig this up. But in a in a in another roundabout way, all you have to do is wait another, like, twenty or thirty million years, and it'll just go back to being oil. So God. Yeah. I don't think we have that much time.
[00:12:51] Unknown:
I've heard that there are, you know, when there's, like, an oil spill and stuff that they use, like, certain, I don't know, fungi, fungi, fungi, you know, to, like, eat the plastic or eat the oil and stuff. Is that something that you are aware of, you know, that could be a solution for all of this plastic?
[00:13:07] Unknown:
I've I've heard of that. I I think that the the solution like, plastic isn't really a problem in my my view. It's more that what what's a problem is that it ends up on the ground. It ends up in the river. But doesn't it end up in your ball sack too? Yeah. Well and and that that's a bigger a bigger question. That seems like a nightmare problem to me. I don't know if I had in my child's ball sack or yours or any of Dan's ball sacks. Yeah. So so that that's a different question, I guess, is whether or not we should be using plastic. And I think that the world has at least moved a little bit away from plastic food packaging and and whatnot and that people are becoming more aware that that's a bad idea. But I I think we're, I think we're in this, this place that we're, like, once we've used the plastic, like, collecting it and putting it properly in a landfill, to me, doesn't seem like that's a problem. Like, the world is not running out of space. We we have space,
[00:14:01] Unknown:
and it it's it's just a matter of whether that space is close to where people wanna throw away their trash. Well, do you think that it's I mean, because I look at, like, whatever the space is. Right? So if that space starts to deteriorate and then the plastic leaches into the soil or the water, you know, and then it gets into our systems because of that, that's a concern for me, you know, as a mom. And, you know, it is I was just in Detroit, you know, you know, with my mom in the hospital. And I went out a couple times to eat, and I was at the hospital and all this stuff. I mean, they're still just using Styrofoam. Here we go. Here's Styrofoam. Everything's in plastic. I mean, there was zero conscientiousness about maybe we could think about something else. And it was such a like, what decade are we here in? You know, and so we're not in a third world developing country. We're in, you know, Michigan. And so it was just this like, and even here in Colorado, you know, I was at this restaurant this weekend with my daughter and her friends and, you know, we had a little to go thing. And it was Elon Musk's brother, Kimbal Musk's place, the kitchen. And, you know, they're all, oh, everything's organic and blah blah blah, you know, and they give you the to go thing. And the the the tray of the to go thing was like a, you know, cardboard ish type thing, and then they put plastic on top.
And I'm like, yeah, thanks. So it just feels like there's there's there's such a disconnect with people understanding the truth about materials and what the best way to produce them and reuse them and whatnot. I was just at a basketball game last night with my kid and his dad and his girlfriend. And, everything there was metal. Like they didn't have plastic water bottles. They were all aluminum water bottles, you know? And I was like, okay, that makes sense. Because just like you said, metal makes more sense to recycle than, you know, plastic or glass. So I thought that was cool. But how do you think like, because I'm gonna segue this into Bitcoin, but like, where is the disconnect for the systems and the powers that be to like have some consensus on what are the truly the best practices that are in the highest and best good for humans and the earth.
[00:16:11] Unknown:
You know? Yeah. And, I mean, I I would say plastics are a bit of a double edged sword because the sort of revolution of plastics that we saw over the last hundred or so years has revolutionized manufacturing of literally everything in the world. Right? Like Yeah. Injection molded plastics, like my headphones, my computer, my shoes. The lid here, everything. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's very useful, and it's driven a massive amount of human prosperity. It's part of, you know, the the the most productive century of of of humanity's existence was the the last one. And we made more strides, and, a huge part of those strides was because of the fact that we were able to harness energy and materials in ways that we had never really been able to do before. And so Mhmm. Those strides have led to more human prosperity than anything else. You know, the the petroleum industry is the single most positive industry for the history of the world by by such a wide margin that it's not even close. Like Yeah. Literally billions of people have been have been saved by the oil and gas industry over the last hundred years. Yeah. That said, plastics in particular have become so cheap and so ubiquitous that they've become a big part of our disposable culture. And, you know, there's there are you know, they're making cars almost entirely out of plastic these days.
And we're at a point where you really cannot escape plastic in your life. Like, it's everywhere, and it's gotten to the point where, you know, we've started to realize, like, maybe we don't want the plastic touching our food. Right? Maybe we don't want maybe we don't want the plastic touching our balls. Like, what whatever whatever, whatever it is. And and it it takes a little bit of effort to even avoid, plastics at all in your life. And I I think it's just sorta kinda creeping in, and and this is, I hope, part of the very first stages. You know, the whole the, the saying of, like, weak men create good times, good times create weak men. Yeah. Etcetera. Right? Yeah. So we're we're we're firmly in the weak men create hard times Yeah. Section. We're we're like Very firm. We're like a third of the way into that portion of it, I think. I think there's there's room for our political leaders to make things a lot worse before they start to get better. But I'd like to hope that we as Bitcoiners are part of the tip of the spear of people who are waking up to that and, you know, becoming the the the hard man that will create good times for future generations. Yeah. And that that I think comes with the awareness of, like, you know,
[00:18:38] Unknown:
even ten years ago, your water bottle might have been plastic. So Oh, totally. And I remember and it was, you know, it was the Nalgene, you know, bottles that you got from REI or whatever. And you're like, oh, look, they're so rugged and strong. You know, they can smash down if you're going hiking and they'll still be good. You know? And, you know, I mean, I think so much of everything is marketing. You know, it's just communication and who's got control of the narrative and who's got the incentive to make the narrative a certain way. You know? And I think a lot of people are so hypnotized, you know, as we talk about Heather with her Unhyptitized podcast, and I love her so much. So again, thanks for introducing me to her. I love her.
You know, we are walking around as a hypnotized culture, you know, and it's by design, obviously, because there's profit on the other side, and there's control on the other side of that hypnotized state of being. And so it is, you know, let me ask you this, have you been like, because you're obviously, you know, starting Bull Bitcoin and doing the Bitcoin Rodeo and working with Bitcoin well and having Bitcoin brains as the first, you know, hardware store. Was your, was your worldview before you got to Bitcoin? And obviously, you said you've kind of started seeing the cracks in the system with the recycling. Like, had you been brought up conservatively?
Have you been brought up, like, you know, I'm a I'm a free thinker, hippie. You know? I don't know. I'm just curious. Like, what's your background? Because you're clearly, like, very, like, fuck the system, you know? Yeah. Which I love. So, you know? Yeah, I'm just curious. Like, how what's what's the arc for your story?
[00:20:13] Unknown:
Yeah. That was something I had to learn on my own. I'm in, like, the most conservative city in probably in Canada Really? We're we're the Alberta is like, we're always referred to as, like, the Texas of of Canada. Okay. We're we're the oil industry here, and, yet I grew up with very liberal parents. And, you know, the saying is always like, you know, if you're not a liberal when you're 20, then you don't have a heart. And if you're not a conservative when you're 40, then you don't have a brain. And I and I, I basically just I followed that path pretty directly. I went to I went to university here. I never really jived with the, sort of, like, stereotypical, like, follow the plan and fit in sorta, path. You know, I'm a very rare, high school and university dropout. It's hard to accomplish both of those, but, but I did. And, yeah, I mean, I I didn't really start, seeing and I would I would argue seeing the world for the way that it is, until after I got into Bitcoin. And I got into Bitcoin like most people as a way to make some money. And Yeah. For me money money money meant dollars. And I was like, I wanna I wanna wanna mine some Bitcoin or buy some Bitcoin that I can sell for more dollars later so that I can be rich or increase my standard of living or whatever else. All the reasons that people get into Bitcoin. And it was probably years. You know?
Back then, there was no Bitcoin standard. There was no sailor series on hard money. There was very little very little content, even discussing Bitcoin in that light. And a lot of the stuff that was out there when you look back at, like, you know, Roger Ver when he was a Bitcoiner and Andreas Antonopoulos and all these people there, a lot of what they were selling was more the, usefulness of Bitcoin as a transactional tool and a censorship resistant transactional tool at that. Yeah. But a peer to peer cash, you know, is the it was called in the in the white paper. And and that, I think, was kind of a simplistic way of looking at it because even though that's where Bitcoin is going, it kind of ignored that first vital step of the store of value, which is really what makes it so that something can even be a form of money. And it wasn't until, there was a guy named Mirska Propesku that, some people out there will know who, he was he was the first one that I read.
[00:22:39] Unknown:
It's a really tough one. Name again? I don't know this name.
[00:22:41] Unknown:
Mirska Propesku. Mirska
[00:22:45] Unknown:
Propesku.
[00:22:46] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. Cohen. And he, he was a, a very early Bitcoiner who was really looking at it right from the start as, like, fuck the government. Fuck the state. These are this this is not a a consensual relationship that I have with the state, and Bitcoin is my tool to emancipate myself from the chains that they have put on me from birth, essentially. And that's that was the first time that I heard that sort of framing of Bitcoin as this sort of, like, revolutionary tool to remove the, ever expanding reach and power of of the state that, you know, we've we've we've seen through our entire lives. It's just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and it doesn't seem like, you know, we might have a brief reprieve here with the Doge stuff where they're they're pruning some of the truly insane. But, like, does anybody believe that the 2026 United States budget has a chance of being lower than the 2016 United States budget? Like, obviously not. Right? So, and we're we're on that trajectory. And if we didn't have Bitcoin, we'd be fucked.
[00:23:52] Unknown:
We would be so fucked. I mean, we would be so fucked on, like, a thousand levels. You know? I I don't know about you, but, like, I mean, my mental health has been so much exponentially better because of Bitcoin. I cannot imagine, like, you know, I I have many relationships in the world and I have a lot of relationships with people from all, all colors of the spectrum. Right? And I look at people who are in, you know, outside of the Bitcoin space and don't understand Bitcoin, but they're still operating in this, you know, the matrix. And I'm just like, it's fucking depressing.
Like, it's so depressing, you know, and I do my best to try to be a, you know, a gentle orange pillar. I used to try to orange pill pretty hard and then I realized that doesn't it's not effective in certain areas. So I'm just sort of like, how can I have a conversation about what people's pain points are, you know, marketing 101, and, you know, understand them and have empathy and then just talk about things that like what is impacting their life? And you were saying this earlier, I forget it was before after we record hit record, but like, if if you pull push back a couple dots, you know, from almost any argument or any situation, Bitcoin is a solution for many, many things, you know, again, whether it's, you know, a mental health thing, whether it's a family issue, whether it's the environment, whether it's the system, whether it's banking, it's like Bitcoin, definitely, It's not Windex in the big fat Greek wedding, but it kind of is for many things.
Yeah, it's such a It's a trip, man. It is definitely a trip thinking about like, the privilege that we have to have gotten the message. And not just gotten the message, but absorbed it. And now we have some energy behind activating it, you know, and building this new system. Tell me how bill bull bull Bitcoin came along with you and Francis.
[00:25:52] Unknown:
Yeah. So it it kinda came along as we we had started working together. We were both in the business of selling Bitcoin, and so we were buying and selling from each other. Back then, there was a lot harder to get Bitcoin in Canada, especially for dealers, and so we all had to sort of buy and sell off of each other and, got to know Francis that way. And then where it all came from was, during the the block size wars, there was an attempt, to form a consensus around a fork called Bitcoin unlimited. And, you know, a bunch of people had gotten together, and big names in the space had signed on to support this Bitcoin unlimited thing. And, Francis and I were talking about this, and we you know, the thing that emerged from our talks was that the biggest issue was not even necessarily the block size change, although we did disagree with the the technical details on the block size change.
It was the fact that you had this group of people who had appointed themselves as sort of the the deciders, you know, the people who are going to be the ones making this change. And so we decided to organize a little bit and oppose that, and we wrote this letter that you can still find out there somewhere, that was basically, like, Canada opposes the Bitcoin unlimited fork. And we we got about 15 or 16, I think, Canadian Bitcoin companies to sign on to that letter. And, that sort of spiraled into a group that, you know, became part of the big opposition to, the the block size increase and was eventually the the no two a, faction.
And, you know, as we got to know each other better through that, we kinda started talking about, like, essentially forming a Bitcoin super company in Canada. And we had talked to a couple other companies about getting them into the merger and just couldn't get to the right terms. And, eventually, like, you know, we were like, we're we two are the most aligned when it comes to our values around Bitcoin and and what we actually wanna achieve and what we wanna build and and sort of, like, the freedom tools that we wanna empower people with, I guess, was the the vision originally. And, you know, I I haven't been, act like, involved in the company in a while on a day to day basis, but Francis has obviously built, like, a very world class Bitcoin exchange. It's probably the best Bitcoin platform in the world, I would say, at this point. And, in terms of the tools that gives the freedom and privacy minded as well as, the ability to buy Bitcoin without all the noise and, nonsense of of all the other coins and also,
[00:28:13] Unknown:
purely noncustodial, which is very important. And I think that's, that's something that's very lacking It's so lacking. In the world. Yeah. And I and I think that's such an important thing for folks to understand, like, because there's so many new people out there like, I bought my Bitcoin. I'm like, Where is it? And that's the first question I like to ask folks. And, Oh, it's on Coinbase, it's here. I'm like, Okay, it's not your Bitcoin then. You don't own Bitcoin. You have an IOU. And so I like how Bull Bitcoin just instantly will, it's like, we're never touching your, we're not holding it for you, it goes straight to your custody. And so, what's been your experience with, I'm doing a monthly Women in Bitcoin meetup in Denver.
And so we have a variety of, it's always, when any meetup you go to, right? There's always like complete newbies who don't even know what a seed phrase is all the way up to minor women and different things. Like, how do you, how do you emphasize the absolute importance of self custody for people?
[00:29:13] Unknown:
I mean, I I think there's gonna be an area here where sort of something in between self custody and the current custody model is gonna be coming out. Mhmm. We've been working on some things with with both whole Bitcoin and Bitcoin well and another company that I'm on the board on because and and I've I've had this conversation, for example, with with Corey from from Swan when they're they're an example where, like, they're a custodial platform, but they try to get everybody to take the Bitcoin off of there. Right? And I think that's a good step. But the structure that they use still puts the funds of their customers at risk. Totally. And and and right now, something for Canadians that's actually a big worry is the fact that with our, like, our larger exchanges that are you know, the shitcoin exchanges that trade everything in custody of everybody's coins, all of those companies in a roundabout way, one way or the other, are pretty much storing their Bitcoin in, Coinbase or Fidelity custody.
So they're they're in they're they're regulated by the state of New York and the government of the United States, and that has nothing to do with me. Right? So it would be even more insane to trust a custodian that keeps your coins in a different country, let alone a country that you're, like, in a trade war with. Exactly. The chances that we, we get to a point where Trump decides to take 20% off the top of all Canadians' Bitcoins held in Canada,
[00:30:34] Unknown:
that doesn't seem super far fetched at all or or held in The US. Right? And so No. I I know. Well, we look at, like, a sixty one zero two order here, and it's just sort of like, okay. Anyone who's got Bitcoin anywhere,
[00:30:46] Unknown:
it's ours. Because it's
[00:30:48] Unknown:
national security. We need to confiscate all your stuff. And so what do you think about solutions like, Unchained or the Bitcoin advisor or AnchorWatch, you know, who are doing, you know, collaborative custody?
[00:31:04] Unknown:
Yeah. So those are a good step for sure. There is, like, an added layer of complexity when you get into multisig like that. Mhmm. And not everybody wants to do that. That that that ends up being the big barrier, and that's why most companies haven't gone to that point. And that that tends to be with the noncustodial companies where you get a big drop off from a product standpoint of customers going through the flow of the product. They get to the point where they have to enter their Bitcoin address, and they're like, oh, shit. I don't have one. You know? And then Yeah. And then you lose clients at that point. And so adding that multisig and everything like that, I think that's a good idea for somebody holding a larger amount who has the time to set that up and and sorta, you know, take their their journey into Bitcoin more seriously, that's a great way to go. But I think there's there's a new model. I don't know what we're gonna be calling it yet. It's it's technically functions a lot like custody, but it uses a different, legal model.
And so there's a couple companies that have set up regulated trust companies here in Alberta, and we were working with one of them that uses something called bailment, which Bailment? Yeah. It basically means that the coins so when you put your coins in Coinbase or or Swan or one of these custodial exchanges, you don't own the coins. You have an IOU from the company for the coins. And that means you're a creditor of this company, and you're an unsecured creditor. So Yeah. If they go bankrupt and, you know, they end up with a giant hack as always happens, especially if they're trading all these other coins, like, inevitably, like and and this is this is a % certainty that at some point, Coinbase will become will be hacked because of Ethereum.
It's a % certain. Yeah. It's just a matter of when. And whether or not they're solvent after that fact is is a big thing. And, you know, we've seen with, like, the FTX bankruptcy, Mt. Gox, our own version in in Canada with Quadriga, that when these things go into bankruptcy, the the the people holding their coins in those exchanges end up getting pennies on the dollar. And that's because they're weighed against all of the assets of the company, whereas with this bailment model, the end user retains full legal legal title to their coins. And because it's a trust company, this trust company is able to hold their coins, with without transferring the title to themselves. So there's no IOUs involved. It there's still no coins held by, like, the the retailer, the company that sells the coins. Mhmm. That that I think is really important is if you are gonna hold your coins with anybody, they should be somebody who just does that.
[00:33:37] Unknown:
I like that. I I think that's obviously a much more intelligent model. What do you what's the, business model there? Are they taking, like, a point? What are they taking? They'll they'll they'll they'll charge, they'll charge an annual fee. It's a lot lower than that. It's more like, 50 or 60 bips. So Okay. Yeah. That's what AcuraWatch is doing. They're at, like, point five five. So Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And and, you know, whatever. I you know, my ex husband had a hedge fund, and so I'm very familiar with people, like, having the normal, you know, two and twenty or whatever you're doing, you're used to paying fees. I mean, but again, like, if you're looking at, you know, whatever, fifty, sixty bips, basis points, you know, for people who don't know what that is, it's just like a half a percent, you know, half a percent, point 6%.
When you've got a lot of money, you know, that's that does add up over time. However, it is it's just your insurance policy, you know, and it's just basically like, what's your insurance policy in a million dollar house? Like how much does it cost you? $6 a year, that's point six, that's 60 beeps. So it's just getting your head around that. I think, especially as people who are like, you know, screw this. I don't want my money in the system. It's just kinda like, okay, cool. Go do you know, dig a hole in your yard and put your seed plate in it. Awesome. You know, like, do that. But there's other people who are especially, you know, more in the legacy system who are just, they don't wanna, they're not interested in doing that type of custody for themselves, especially if you're a company.
And so I think being open minded is super important as a Bitcoiner because there's no one size fits all for how you're going to custody your generational wealth and your freedom. And so obviously to me, I think about like, okay, does it make sense to have a chunk that is, you know, really, really ultra cold like that? And then have something where it's like, oh, if I gotta get out of Dodge, like, I don't need to go call up the trust to transfer some stuff for me. It's just I got it. You know? And so there's layers and ways that you would can organize your wealth.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I look at it as, like, a way to get into the space. Yeah. Like, the the people that, that that leave right at that point where they could be putting their own address in and they decide, I don't wanna learn this. But maybe what they're deciding is I don't wanna learn this yet. Yeah. In a lot of time in a lot of cases, what I've seen in the past, especially back in the day when we didn't have, nearly as good of infrastructure for storing your Bitcoin. You know, there was a question at one point there there was a time when we all stored our Bitcoin with no hardware wallets because they didn't exist. And then there was a there was a point in time where it was like, is it worth it for bot to to put some some of my money into a hardware wallet also? You know? Is this Yeah. Better served going to this than going to Bitcoin.
And, you know, a lot of cases, what ended up happening was people would put some money into Bitcoin. And and back then, the saying was always don't put money in that you can't afford to lose, and it gets shifted to only put money in that you can't afford to lose. And, but but the way that I would say is don't put money in that you need soon. Yeah. Because it it it's obviously still very volatile, and all of our prices are in dollars. So, that that can be an issue. But, what ends up happening is, you know, you put some money in, and then you you get to your second cycle. You're four years in, and all of a sudden, the money you put in is worth putting a lot more attention into. Yeah. It becomes a lot bigger percentage of your net worth. And at that point, you know, these people who've used a fairly easy to facilitate custodial system that is much safer than the way that exchanges are doing it now, the way that has proven time and time again that it has the potential to burn people. Yeah.
You know, I think it's a it could be a gateway to the self custody and a gateway to, taking that extra layer of sovereignty. Because, really, like, you you get about two thirds of the benefits of owning Bitcoin if you, if you just have price exposure, I would say. And the rest, you you in fact need to hold it yourself.
[00:37:44] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's it's layered. You know? It's like a step by step type process. And I know, you know, when I first started learning about Bitcoin, like, now it's gonna be almost four years ago, I'm still, you know, I still consider myself a total noob, you know, but I'm like a nerd, a nerdy noob. But like when I was like, you know, I had some Bitcoin on, Coinbase and I'm like, I don't wanna mess this up. You know, it's like, whatever, a thousand bucks, it wasn't a whole bunch of money, but it was like, a thousand bucks is a lot to me. And, and I didn't wanna lose it. So I was like, well, I'm gonna hire somebody who's like a Bitcoin security person, you know? And it was like good guy biker. And I'm like, teach me how to put this on my cold storage so I don't mess it up, you know? And even though Ben, BTC Sessions is the best, you know, and he's got the best, best, best tutorials ever. If you guys don't know who I'm talking about, go follow BTC Sessions, the best. And check out beat Bitcoin Mentor also. Like, those guys are rocking it.
But this was obviously Bitcoin Mentor is, you know, what I got did, you know, four years ago, but minus having the company. But some people like I'm older, you know, I'm not this like cryptographer girl or something, you know, and I'm not a developer. And I'm like, I don't want to mess this up because if this does grow, I don't want to make a mistake and then all of a sudden go, oops, I didn't put the right code in or the digits or I messed up, whatever. And so I think for many people, like to feel comfortable having their hands held, you know, is no shame. You know, there's no shame in like going step by step.
But really making sure whoever's guiding you knows what the heck they're talking about, right? And it's kind of like, how do you know the person who's guiding you isn't going to like, I'm going to put my address in instead of yours. So it's like, you know, d y o r, do your own research everybody and make sure you're, you know, you feel comfortable. I mean, like, what's happened with Lynn Alden and Larry Lapard with their Twitter accounts? Did you see what went on, like, recently?
[00:39:42] Unknown:
Not really, no. They got hacked. Out of the loop on on Twitter drama.
[00:39:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, like, this recently, like, there's been, like, this really super duper big old hack with Bitcoiner accounts. And so and those guys are like the shit, right? And so even if they can get hacked in this kind of, and it was a social hacking type thing, because it was like, hey, we're from Forbes magazine or blah, blah, blah, you know, and we wanna interview you because we love your book. And you click on the link and then somehow it all of a sudden gives them access to your Twitter account. I have no idea, you know, I don't know how that works, but like the sophistication of hacks out there are so intimidating. And then I think they just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And the more that we have exposed, you know, financially, it's kind of like, are we doing the $5 wrench attack? Are we getting, you know, cyber attacked?
How do you tell people to stay secure? Like, what are some advice, you know, that you would give to people listening who are like, I don't wanna get hacked or I don't, you know, any of that. Well, the first thing you should do is never go on Bitcoin podcasts. Definitely don't go. Only go on a a music podcast with a chicken and a pink hat. Yeah.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
There's there's value in, anonymity, certainly. Yeah. There's, like, some security and anonymity. But, yeah, I mean, we're getting to a point where it's not just Bitcoin. All of our lives are so digital that really just Yeah. Basically, everybody needs to have some familiarity with, you know, basic phishing and how to how to spot those things and just operating with a little bit of caution. You know? It's like, my my son is nine, and he's, you know, he's just kinda getting to be able to use the Internet a little bit without Uh-huh. Much supervision. And, you know, I'm having to teach him, like, about, you know, don't don't click on links. Like, you know, people will try to steal from you. People will try to harm you in some way online. And it's, it's really unfortunate, but it's just kinda how the world is. And you need to be on guard for that, really.
You need to be aware of, of what you're putting in your computer and what you're putting on your phone and, you know, where your where your weak points are because having your Bitcoin stolen is probably the most obvious one that we all think of. But we've got all these other valuable digital assets like our Twitter accounts. Yeah. Our domains that Yeah. That are potentially attackable by by bad actors. And so, I would shout out that one good security tip that I would, I would give is, a company that I'm just just in the process of switching all my domains and hosting over to after going through, some of their security procedures and whatnot with them is a company called EasyDNS.
[00:42:22] Unknown:
And they've got Say spell it out.
[00:42:25] Unknown:
EasyDNS.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Like e a s y d n s? Yep. Okay.
[00:42:30] Unknown:
Yep. And, they're, they're good, Canadian based company that, is run by a Bitcoiner, and they take the security seriously the way that you'd expect from a company run by a Bitcoiner. So
[00:42:42] Unknown:
I love it. I know there's so many like, you know, again, when we deal with, you know, normies or people, like most of my family, they're not Bitcoiners. They still think I'm insane. That's okay. It's like, I've saved a little Bitcoin for you guys on the side and it's gone up, so you're welcome. One day you'll be a believer. But like when I do talk about security, and again, I'm not like some cyber expert or anything, but I'm like, You need to have two FA. You need to do all these other things. And they're like, Nobody's going to I'm like, Oh my God. Somebody I know in my family, I'm not going to say who it was, but they clicked the button and it was too good to be true. Like, oh, we're going to send us $1,000 and we're going to send you 2,000 or whatever it was. It was some stupid thing. And, of course, I'm getting all the alerts, you know, and it was just like, okay, this is like the dude from Nigeria or whatever who's going to, you know? And especially when you're desperate, if you're somebody who, and I'm not saying my family members were desperate, but when you're in a position, anybody, you know, who's who's feeling, you know, disempowered, if you're feeling broke, if you don't have a lot of energy or time and something shows up and it appears to be this magical, solution for you, you. I know what it's like to feel down and out. And so when something shows up and it feels that way, you're like, Well, what have I got to lose? And you click on it and something happens that makes it even worse for your life. And so, I mean, not to be negative, but it's like you have to be a hypervigilant individual in this world. You have to be. If you're not, like you're the prey for these predators.
And they're just one after the other. So if it's not you, it's the next guy, the next guy, the next guy. And so I just feel like being a Bitcoiner has completely shifted my view of security and privacy and safety. I mean, obviously, I'm out there, you know, and but just security wise, I feel like it's taught me a lot.
[00:44:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I'm just gonna turn off my camera for one sec because I realized I forgot my coffee inside. Oh, yeah. I need I I need a coffee with the cigar.
[00:45:05] Unknown:
You can't live without have you had the, El Salvador coffee? Like, from, oh my god. There's the volcano coffee. There's oh my god. Come on. Choritos coffee. Have you had any El Salvador coffee there, Dave?
[00:45:20] Unknown:
No. I haven't. I, I haven't. I'm not I'm not I've been skeptical of El Salvador the whole time. But Really? Yeah. I mean, I I'm not,
[00:45:29] Unknown:
I'm not Do you want me to reverse go in your go to your settings and make sure that you're on, like, go to your, like, the gear icon and just hit it and make sure you're on, high def or whatever the high res is for your video because you're a little grainy.
[00:45:42] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Cool. There we go. Right. But, yeah, I I, I've been skeptical. I'm I I'm not prone to trust any government. Yeah. Totally. To see that with with the stuff coming out with the IMF loans and, you know, maybe we can trust this guy, but for how long and on what is the the question with El Salvador. So I've been broadly skeptical on the sort of, like, rosy picture that they're painting of, like, don't worry. We're the Bitcoin government. We're the government for Bitcoiners. And it's it it feels like a honeypot to me.
[00:46:18] Unknown:
I mean, it's one of those things that I'd look at everything. I mean, this is like, you know, what is it? Bitcoin's a, you know, a teenager at this point. And so it's so young. It's such a young experiment. And so the fact that it's starting to hit mainstream and then now within the last couple of years, the governments are starting to wake up. Who the heck knows what's gonna happen tomorrow here in The United States with their bullshit crypto summit? You know, blah. I don't trust anything that I can't look behind the curtains. You know, if I can't see what's going on, like, and connect the dots, as far as I'm concerned, it's just one big sigh out smokescreen bullshit, you know?
And someone's benefiting and I'm not that one. I might be told that I'm the one so that I can keep putting up my little cheerleader thing, but it doesn't mean that's accurate. You know? And so I'm totally with you with you know? I don't trust the government. I don't trust systems. You know? I don't certainly don't trust anything bureaucratic. But it's it's it's the most concentration of power to play the game for a little while. You know? And so it's what's interesting though, it's like they're playing the game with the tool, Bitcoin, and the network of Bitcoin that is it's not under their control.
Yeah. You know? And that's what makes that, I think, very cool and interesting.
[00:47:42] Unknown:
Yeah. And they don't they don't really see Bitcoin for what it is whatsoever. Yeah. If if they did, they'd be very against it. Right? Totally. They can't control it. The the big Bitcoin will be the technology that ends the government of The United States unequivocally. The United States as a country will cease to exist and Bitcoin will be the reason. That that's almost a a certainty at this point, I would say. But what the politicians have seen is that first I think the first thing that they saw is a voter block. Right? A bunch of people who are very much single issue voters who will die on this hill. Yeah.
The the the free Ross thing was probably the easiest way Ross. To to to buy a bunch of votes. And that that's that's great. But that's something that governments love to do, you know, is they they crack down on your freedoms or in this case, obviously, very significantly, the freedoms of one person. Mhmm. And and then they're in a position to give them back and seem like they're benevolent when they give them back. And the fact is that the the very structure that allowed the imprisonment of Ross Albrecht in the first place was evil. That was that was wrong. That was a power system that neither he nor any of us have opted into.
And he was the victim of that power system and the victim of all the money moving behind the scenes. And what what I think is going on now is that Bitcoin has just gotten big enough to the point where it's starting to be part of the money moving behind the scenes. And I think that the obvious next step that they've realized is that Bitcoiners and the crypto industry at whole can be a source of contributions, money, bribes, essentially. Right? And we're seeing that in in very clear terms right now with this administration that, like, obviously, the shit corners who printed their own money have a lot more money to pay bribes with. Yeah. And you see that in this in the form of of Justin Sun's seventy five million dollar donation to Trump, and suddenly his SCC charges get dropped. Right?
So, there's nothing really different that's going on. The this administration is profiting from the fact that the absurdity of the spending had gotten so extreme to the point where it was just, like, the Democrats and the the sort of globalist elite that backed the Ukrainian war and that rule most of Europe. They they were they're in full looting mode. They're just grabbing as much money for themselves and their own pet projects as they could. And that's where you see these things where it's just, like, millions of dollars going to, like, you know, like, support girls' climate action in Peru. And it's like Yeah. Like, that's the dumbest thing I can think of. And it it, it's gotten so extreme that now just by canceling those things, they seem like the good guys. Right? But in fact, like, they're they're still sending billions of dollars to foreign countries for war, and they're still printing money without our consent. They're still stealing from us, and they're still spending the money that they steal in ways that are a net negative. Like, let alone not just the spending. If the if the entire government went away and we still had to pay the same amount in terms of inflation and taxes, I think that'd be a net positive.
[00:50:47] Unknown:
Well, let's let's unpack that a little bit because this is, like, a common argument I hear and I have conversations with folks. The reality is, okay, Dave, if you and I decided to be roommates, there's gonna have to be some type of a governance structure of, like, does the toilet seat go up or down? We have to have an agreement. Oh, do you put the toothpaste upside down or this way? You know? And so I don't care. The minute you have two people or more who have to come together in any situation and have agreements, that's called governance. And so, the idea of, you know, that this is gonna create, you know, the government's gonna collapse and this and that. I'm like, yep. That's the rinse and repeat throughout all history. And so there are times when things have to get so big and bloated and disgusting that they explode and they have to collapse, you know? And then there's that time of chaos and disorder, but then there is some other sense sense of order and structure that comes through it, you know? And so is it like Lord of the Flies, you know, when the kids are on the island and it's like, okay, piggy pass the conk, you know? And it's like there's always gonna be some set of, agreed upon rules and not everyone's gonna wanna follow them and not everyone's gonna agree that, this is how I think they should be and I lost the vote. And so there's always gonna be some, clashing when you have one or more, you know, two or more humans that come together. And so it's like, with that said, you know, what is the way that we can move forward and realize like government is never gonna go away. It's not. Yeah. You know, this particular version of it, or maybe these folks in it, but like there's always gonna be institutions. There's always gonna be configurations.
There's always gonna have to be some something, you know, to keep the wheels on the bus going round and round. You know? And so what do you think about that? I mean, there's never gonna be no government.
[00:52:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I I think we're entering a time, and, a lot of these ideas come from a book called The Sovereign Individual that I would highly recommend anybody read. Yeah. So Yeah. I think we're entering a time where, we're gonna end up with a lot more countries in the world. We're probably ten, fifteen years from now that instead of being 300 or so countries in the world, there's probably gonna be 5,000 because the day of the large scale nation state is over. That's my hypothesis. And I think we have to go right back to the idea of where does the need for the nation state come from? What what is the the the foremost purpose of that? Right? And, really, when it comes down to it, it's the protection of physical safety and property rights. Those are the very fundamental things that were first that that really when you look at it, like, what the state is is humans banding together to form a monopoly on violence to protect their resources.
Right? And that's the part that there will always be a place for because otherwise, someone else will steal your resources inevitably. There there is a need for, some rule of law. Right? And you you you do need a concentration of violence and a monopoly on violence in a given area to be able to enforce a rule of law. But I think what we're gonna end up in is a scenario with so many different small countries in the world where those countries will end up competing for the best the best users, the best citizens, the best customers. Mhmm. That's the way that they should be looking at us is as customers, as customers of services that they provide.
And right now, the bundle that they do, it's like you you got your bundle with your cable and you got, like, you know, you wanna get the sports channel, but, you know, you have to get these six other channels, and you don't want those six other channels. But right now, you know, we're at such a point. It's like we want the one channel, and we have a 50,000 other channels we have to pay for that we don't want. Yeah. And and and that's the position that we're in. We're in a place where the scope of the government is so far out of control Yeah. That it doesn't resemble anything like what the original purpose of the state would be. Exactly. I think we'll end up in a scenario where there there will be some countries, and I hope one of them will be here.
Colorado probably stands a good chance of being a a country like this where they compete by offering
[00:55:02] Unknown:
the cheapest prices for the best rule of law. Is it That's amazing. Are you for is it free and open cities? Are you familiar with that project? Yep. You know, is that kind of similar? It's been a while since it's, you know, couple of years, I think, since I listened to some of the podcast. But, you know, is that sort of philosophy there?
[00:55:21] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I haven't dug I'm only loosely familiar with that, but I I do think that we'll end up with a lot more governance at the city level and, like, the the regional level. Micro. Yeah. You know, if I if I think about, the further away that I go from home, the less I'm gonna identify with the people that I that I I see. Right? So, if I I'm in I'm in Calgary here. If I go to the rest of Alberta, I'm gonna find a lot in common with those people, but not necessarily even as much as I find with those here in Calgary. And if I go to Toronto, like, it feels like I'm in a different world, let alone a different country. Like, it's nothing like here at all. And our cultural values and our our way of life is so different that I don't think it makes sense for these large scale countries to to persist like this. And there's there's really no, there's really no benefit for us on this end of the country to being part of Canada. Like, our biggest benefit is the hockey team, to to be honest. Like, we we love having a good a good national hockey team, and everybody was very happy that, that Canada beat The US in that that recent tournament. But, like, that that's that's that only happens every, like, four years, and we don't we don't get enough out of the country to merit paying such a large percentage of our wealth to pay for the rest of the country, which is the situation in Canada. We're we're the oil rich province. We basically pay for the roads in Toronto and everywhere else, and, that it's just a bad deal. And I think, eventually, we're gonna be put in a situation where when citizens are forced into a bad deal, they have choices.
Right? They have the ability to move away from that bad deal, and we're just we're starting to see that. And that's why El Salvador is an an appealing place for many people is because they they really saw the bad deal and started saying, hey. We'll give you a better deal over here. And then in a lot of a lot of the the the ways that they offered the deal, you know, that originally was gonna be, you invest 3 Bitcoin and you can get citizenship, and then it became you had to pay the 3 Bitcoin to get citizenship. And, you know, the the the deal isn't quite as good as they said it would be, but it's they're they're still getting the the first bits of the idea right. But I think when a country's a country comes around and says, not only are we gonna be pro Bitcoin, and and I think there's room to take that a lot further than just saying, we'll buy some as a country. We'll mine some as a country. You know?
Legal tender, I think, is virtually meaningless. That's just that's the government forcing people to do something. I'm not in favor of that. Yeah. But if a government were to say, like and there's a window for this right now. If a government were to acquire as much Bitcoin as possible and then say, hey. We're dropping out of the IMF. We're not in this system of of of control anymore. And, we have this big stockpile of Bitcoin. We're gonna issue our own currency backed by this Bitcoin very much like the gold standard. And, not only that, but we're going to, run a government that aligns with the principles that most Bitcoiners would agree with. So we're gonna run a government that is very lean and provides a very minimal level of services. And as a result, you know, doesn't get in the way of our our citizens running their businesses, living their lives, and and really just provides those basic things that we actually need from the government and we actually need from whoever whoever it is that has that monopoly on violence. We need them to protect us, to protect our property, and, frankly, not much else. I I don't I don't see any other area in the world where any government at all is doing a good job of literally anything else, like, you know, health care, education, anywhere in the world, not even one. So
[00:58:57] Unknown:
I know. It it's definitely I I always ask people, I'm like, you know, what is the, the best vision or example that is alive right now of a government, you know, that you think is like functioning well, you know? A lot of times people come up with these socialist things like, well, everybody gets school and everybody gets this and they get the healthcare. And I'm like, yeah, you've got to wait for a year to get an appointment or a surgery or, you know, your health your education is a vanilla one size fits all things. So it has zero, ability to propel people way forward who are ready to go forward and capable versus people who are just like in the medium of the bell curve kind of thing, in the median. And so it's a tough one. I mean, managing giant groups of humans, I'm I don't wanna do that. You know?
[00:59:49] Unknown:
That would be no. Thanks. Well, that's a fundamental flaw in the concept of government, I think, too, is because most of the most competent people that I know would have absolutely no interest in being in charge of the government. No. It it sounds like a terrible job, to be honest. Yeah. And the only thing that could make it a good job is the way that the politicians use it now, which is the ability to steal a whole bunch of money. Yeah. Right? And so that that really is the main thing that drives people to politics is is just this lust for power and money. Yeah. And I think I think there's a there's kind of, like, this weird weird thing that, that some people have where they really just get off on that power. You know, they really want to be in charge. And I think that's why we that's why we see so many pedophiles among politicians as well is because it's the same kind of dimension. Right? It's dementia. It's it's people who get off on power who seek both of those things. You know, it's like I want to inflict my power on somebody who has less power than me. And that, to me, is, like, one of the most demented things in the world, whether it's children or taxes. It's it's fucking weird to want to control other people.
[01:00:52] Unknown:
Well, you know, and that looks you know, and thinking of, you know, Heather and other things, and I have I work with different people and do, you know, coaching and help them move forward with their lives and design their future. But, like, you're you're you're replaying the past, right? So if you had somebody, right, that had a power over you when you were a child or a teenager, or you witnessed that in your family, but most importantly, it happened to you, that just keeps trickling forward. And there's something in your spirit, your consciousness that wants to resolve that somehow. And a lot of ways people think that they resolve it is by putting it upon someone else. And so, you see that with like, you know, the guy who gets yelled at by his boss and he comes home and beats his wife up.
You see the kid who didn't get picked for a game when they were children, and then now they're being exclusive and telling everyone to fuck off. So there's all these different ways that if we don't understand our past, you know, as individuals, we're gonna be destined to repeat it somehow. And until you get that kind of resolution and clarity, it turns into this absolutely disgusting deformity, You know? And you think about, I don't know about you, but like remember the hall monitors and the kids who would make sure you had your hall pass to go pee when you're in third grade? Like, you know, they just wanted to have that power, you know, like in making sure, you know, that you had the right thing. And so, you know, I I'm gonna tell you a quick story, if you don't mind. I remember I was brutally terrorized and bullied when I was in sixth and seventh grade. And I lived in Arizona. There's lots of gangs there, you know, and this was back in the eighties.
And I was terrified to go into seventh grade because I got, you know, they were like toilet paper in my house and all egging my house. And I didn't even know what the fuck was going on and who these people were. And I show up in seventh grade and for almost a whole year, I'm getting, like just bullied by this group of girls, you know? And they're like, you can't go to the mall. We're gonna cut you and kill you. And I'm like, oh my God. I don't even know you. What did I do wrong? You know? And it was just like, I was just the easy target.
And I was just for the whole year, I was just in this state of terror, and I was scared to go do anything. And I moved around every two years, so I didn't have like some hardcore crew. And I just remember one day I saw this girl who was one of the terrorists as it were. And she was in the classroom and I was like, you know, get a hall pass, come out. You know? Because I was just like, I wanted to confront her finally. I wanted to confront the bully. So she gets the hall pass, she comes out, and, we go in the, you know, this end way of the hall so nobody could see us. And I was like, here I am, beat me up. You've been wanting to beat me up for, you know, these last two years, take your shot. And she was just like, fuck you, blah, blah, blah. You know, and I'm like 13 years old or 14 years old. And she was just like cursing me out. And I was just like, well, fuck you. You know, so I've started the fight and I start, you know, so we started punching each other and brawling. I finally got her down on the ground. I had her by the hair and I was like ready to just punch her in the face and knee her in the face too. And I'd already punched her and she's bloody all over her face. And I'm not proud of this, but I'm proud of the fact that I stood up for myself.
But I just looked at her because I was like, Uncle, you ready? You done? And she's like, Yeah. And I was like, All right, come on. Let's go in the bathroom and get you cleaned up. So I brought her into the bathroom to help her get cleaned up and she just started bawling and crying. And I was like, I don't even know you. Like, why are you picking on me? You know, what's wrong with what did I do to you? She was like, nothing. They made me do it. My stepdad, you know, beats me up and I'm just upset. And, you know, so it was like all this poor girl's trauma traumatized me, you know, and at such a young age. And so it was just this like exponentially multiply that by 8,000,000,000 people.
Right? And so it's like that's what's going on in our power structures out there is we've got so much unresolved trauma in the world. And then it gets hidden in their shame. And then it just oozes out the side into pedophilia or into all these other things that are disgusting. You know? And so it's like, until we can take an opportunity to look inside and look at what's really wrong, you know, that needs to be loved, I don't wanna say wrong, but has been wounded and needs to be healed, we're never gonna heal the systems. We're never gonna heal anything, You know? And so I think, you know, it's imperative, you know, to have radical self responsibility as a Bitcoiner and as somebody who wants to make the world a better place to, like, take time to look within. And it's like, how is your old how are your old wounds, you know, polluting your environment, you know, and how is it trickling out? And so, I don't know. I just had to go in that long hand.
[01:05:42] Unknown:
Yeah. I I I I'm with you, though. I think, and this kinda goes back to the conversation about the scams too. I think that the world, the way that it is now, has gotten so distorted because of the money printing as we always talk about. Right? Right. The the fact is that one of one of the core functions that money is supposed to perform is it's supposed to link your actions to the outcome for your life. Right? So the harder you work, the more resources you're supposed to have to spend on your life. And the fact is that that link has been profoundly broken because the money that we earn is is broken. Yeah. And so in in the world the way that it is today, there are just a lot of people dealing with a lot of hopelessness. There's a lot of people dealing with the fact that they don't think they can get out from under the debt, out from under the you know, they're they're in a a job that hasn't gotten that much of a raise in the last ten years, but their rent is triple what it was ten years ago. Yeah. And and that leads people in a bunch of directions that, are not healthy for them or anyone else.
One of them is that are are are those power games, you know, where people try to, exert power over others, but that also extends to both the scammers and the scammese. Yeah. So there's there's much more of incentive to become a scam artist in the world right now because it's a way that you can actually make some money as compared to, you know, the the rest of the world where the the ability to sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps, the proverbial American dream is is no longer as reachable for people really anywhere in the world, let alone America. Yeah. And then on the flip side, you know, something that we see both at Bitcoin well and and both Bitcoin is there's a lot of people who are victims of these scam artists who are pushed to Bitcoin. And they're they're pushed to Bitcoin because it's a it's a way for the scammers to get the money from them without, it being reversible or traceable. And, having talked to a bunch of these people, you know, we've we've we've prevented a whole lot of scams.
And a very common thing that comes up in there is the fact that, especially with older people, they feel like, you know, they've they've taken the path that was was presented to them as as living a a righteous life. You know, they've they went and they got a a university degree. They went and worked their whole lives. They they saved money. They had RSPs and pensions and savings. And they're like they're in these spots where they're like, oh, I got $300,000 saved up for retirement. And that even ten years ago would have seemed like a an an okay amount to have as a retirement. And nowadays, if you're 65 years old and you got $300,000, like, that's not gonna take you another twenty years. No.
And so it it it's gotten to this point where these people feel like they've gotta do something. Yeah. And that leads them to taking, you know, more and more insane risks with their money. Exactly. And, re really, it's just a it's one of the ways that because the world's so fucked, people are just not treating each other well as a whole across the the the world and the economy, and and that trickles down into everything from, that's that's that's why there's so much
[01:08:40] Unknown:
demented bullshit in the world right now. Totally. And I think about, like, I was on a spaces, I don't know, maybe a month ago, and it was a I almost have I never go on crypto spaces, but for whatever reason, I was like, I'm gonna go do some recon, you know, and see what's happening over here. You know? And like literally every, all the speakers were like the little Lego picture, you know, pixelated pictures. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna listen to these folks. And, you know, one of the guys is just like, oh, I'm a Bitcoin maxi, but I do crypto. I was like, Fuck. Okay. I'm gonna raise my hand.
So I go, they let me up, you know, and I was like, So let's I wanna learn, you know, like you guys like do this crypto stuff and you know that you're rug pulling people. And they're like, yeah. We're just doing it so we can buy Bitcoin because Bitcoin's better because I'm a Bitcoin maxi. And I was like, no. You're not. That's not how it works. You know? I'm like, there's no. And but they're just like, you don't know what it's like out here. We're we're hustling, and it's super hard. I'm like, dude, I'm from Detroit. I don't know what the fuck it's like. I live in my car, and I don't wanna hear about your bullshit. You know? And so it was just but there was no consciousness around that you're, you know, you're extracting value from other people. And so it was just this like, they didn't care. It was just like, how quick can I get some money so I can get some Bitcoin? And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, and I understand, I get everybody wants to get Bitcoin, but like, they were justifying, you know, the means to the end kind of thing. And, it was just, and, you know, they're all the it was young, you know, it was a young group of guys, probably, you know, all guys, maybe one girl. But, but they're just like, we're hustling out here and we can't get by and so this is helping us, you know, and I get it and that's why people turn to selling drugs. That's why, you know, some women turn to being, you know, strippers or only fans, you know, because it's just like, well, it's better than working at Starbucks, you know, and I get it, you know. And so it's like the this money is obviously so broken that they're, you know, they're hustling and they're just barely above water breathing, you know. And so, again, when somebody throws you a floatie and it's in the shape of a little monkey picture, you're like, okay.
[01:10:59] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:11:00] Unknown:
It sucks. And it's like, I feel for everybody and it's like, I don't want to keep perpetuating that cycle, you know, but I want to help younger people especially understand like there's different ways to save and get ahead, you know? But it's like, even if you think about little kids getting out of college, what are you gonna get, dollars 60,000 a year job? You can't pay rent here in almost any city plus groceries, plus insurance, plus food. Oh, I'd like to have a new pair of shoes because these ones have holes in it. Like you're not getting getting by on $60.80, a hundred grand anymore. Forget it. So it it's a tough one, man. It's like I really feel I don't know. Do you think everything has to completely disintegrate and collapse before we get a reset, or are we gonna be able to, you know, duct tape and MacGyver this thing together?
[01:11:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, there there there's bound to be, different levels of collapse in different places. Yeah. Back to the sovereign individual that predicted that Canada would be the first major nation state to break up. And I think the the likelihood of that is is very high. The whole trade war makes it more likely. We don't need like, we we in Alberta, especially, we have no interest in being in a trade war with The United States. We export a ton of oil to United States. We'd like to export even more oil to The United States. We'd like to have pipelines going there to export oil more safely and efficiently. And, you know, I I I think, we're gonna see countries break up, and we will probably see some places. Like, we've we've already seen some these, you know, short periods of hyperinflation and the sort of abject poverty that that leads to.
That's not done. We'll see more of that for sure in our lifetimes. That may come to our our countries as well at some point. But, yeah, I mean, the the the the phrase gradually then suddenly, you know, is is has been adopted by Bitcoiners for a reason because I think that's very likely how a a collapse in the Western world is likely to go. Yeah. You know, when the when the day comes, when the the dollar loses its final pieces of purchasing power, it'll probably be very much like the bank collapses that we've seen in the last year where they, you know, they they kick the can until Friday. Everything starts to go to shit in the afternoon on Friday, and then they're like, you know, everything falls apart over the weekend. And and by Monday, we have an entirely new structure Yeah. That, that we're we're told is the new the new thing.
These people in the political class, these people in power will will go to any links whatsoever to keep their slice of power. And so Of course. I think they're gonna kick the can down the road as far as they can. And, yeah, I mean, it it it's there's probably gonna be some messiness. The the currencies collapse, and I I do I do think that, even in the next five years, we're probably gonna see most of the currencies in the world collapse.
[01:14:07] Unknown:
Let me ask you this because I think this is you know, I was I forget who. Charles Eisenstein, he was talking about like nature based currencies and resource based currencies. And on the topic of cent How many more minutes you have got? I know we're over the hour. Like, how are you doing this time? No,
[01:14:24] Unknown:
I got lost time. Okay, cool.
[01:14:27] Unknown:
Because we've got two ideologies right now, right? We're looking at centralized things and decentralized things, right? And you were talking about having 5,000 countries, you know? We don't want 5,000 currencies, And that's different because and it's like Bitcoin is not centralized, but it's unified. It's one system, that's it operates in a decentralized nature. However, is this something that you see, like if we're working in a 5,000 country world, you know? Is it is it logical to think we're gonna be able to operate on a Bitcoin standard or is it something where it's like, well, we're gonna have the Bitcoin base layer and then each each of these 5,000 countries are gonna issue their, you know, whatever, Colorado token or something. You know? What do you think?
[01:15:18] Unknown:
I I think that countries will try to keep fiat alive as long as they can, and we'll probably see a wave of fiat currencies backed by Bitcoin,
[01:15:27] Unknown:
which is an in infinitely better idea than Well, hold on. Hold on. Fiat because fiat isn't backed by anything. Fiat is just by decree. So what do you mean? So
[01:15:37] Unknown:
so they would be the decree involved here would be them saying, we have this many Bitcoin, and we decree that we only have this many dollars, essentially. Right? And so, dollars backed by Bitcoin or whatever the new currency you'd wanna call them is Bitcoin bucks or whatever. Okay. So very much in the same way that, that fiat currency was once backed by gold, you know, on the gold standard, that it it it wasn't it wasn't actually gold. It was backed by the credit and faith of the US government. And I think we'll see that again. We'll see countries move to, to that kind of system, and then inevitably, some of those countries will abuse that.
And in a world where we have 5,000 countries, I don't think it's realistic for a large percentage of them to be competing for their own, fiat currency on top of Bitcoin. There there might be some usefulness where, some regional currencies might work like that. But in essence, what they'll all be competing with Bitcoin and with each other for is, like, you know, how how honest are they? If if a country were to issue a a a currency that was denominated in Satoshis and one to one backed, and we could trust them, that would be pretty close to as good as Bitcoin, but the reality is that we probably won't be able to trust them. And so even if it starts out as one to one backed, at some point, they will issue more of the currency than they have Bitcoin in order to spend it. And that's just been, you know, a a ubiquitous thing that we've seen in every monetary system in the world is that if anybody has the ability to make money for free, they will, and they'll spend it.
[01:17:16] Unknown:
But but if we look at I mean, if if if you think about, obviously, Bitcoin can be, you know, reduced to a Satoshi, why would anybody want anything else than a sat? Because I look at stable coins. I look at, you know, Tether and all this stuff, and I'm still trying to get my little brain around that. And I do understand it to some degree, but it's still just like, at some point, can we get on a Bitcoin standard? And anybody who would issue anything other than just sending Sats through Lightning or whatever the new technology is gonna be would seem like a scam.
[01:17:52] Unknown:
Yeah. And I mean, I I can I can definitely see that? If if the market was perfectly efficient, we'd already be on a Bitcoin standard. Right? And where, the potential future viability for those, like, kinda second layer FITs on top of Bitcoin comes from the fact that there is, like, a large incumbency bias to money. That's that's that's why the dollar still exists. That's why we still use, you know, something like the Canadian dollar has no reason to exist. So I think that there there will be some some competition in the world driven by that kind of inefficiency. And though there's realistically gonna be a lot of trade offs that, like, people don't necessarily understand the the differences between. So if you were to look at something like the liquid network where, you know, it's not a trustless system whatsoever.
It's a trust based system, but what you're trusting is a federation of unrelated parties. Right? And so that's much safer than trusting one exchange to hold your Bitcoin, but it's still a lot less safe than, than holding Bitcoin itself. But it's a lot easier. It's a lot more efficient to use something like that. Right? And so there will be some trade offs like that. And I think, ultimately, Bitcoin will outcompete all of them in the in the end. But, things like, different forms of federations that allow spending of money that's either denominated or backed by Bitcoin that, you know, distributes trust rather than forces us to trust a single party, especially the government Yeah. Would be would be a major improvement on our monetary system right now. And because of the fact that they are much more efficient than Bitcoin, we'll bring in some users and probably will will will survive for some time until, you know, the the same thing will eventually happen is you'll eventually end up in a in a fractional reserve in a scenario where, somebody is spending money that doesn't exist. And at that point, that's where the angle opens up for competition from the main chain in Bitcoin that obviously cannot be created from nothing.
[01:19:57] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. How how long do you predict that might take just for fun? I know nobody can throw the dice Oh, yeah. Predict that. But, like, how long do you what do you think?
[01:20:06] Unknown:
Well, it it's really hard to predict because you you know, there's so many moving pieces. I would say somewhere in the area of, like like, that ten to fifteen year range, I think, is probably where we're looking at for being in a world where our like, the currencies of the world don't look anything like they do now. You know, I think we'll be in a world with, like, five or six currencies. Bitcoin will be one of them. Could be others backed by Bitcoin. And and that transition will be a, you you know, a big messy process of the global forex scale. But, at the end of the day, you know, it it the the end result is that all of the people who maintain the current system and and will be the ones making the decisions to back currencies by Bitcoin and other things like that.
The end result is that all of those people, the political class, the moochers, and the leechers will be disintermediated and will only be useful and will only be continue to be able to make money off of the rest of the population if they provide a useful service to us, which they're obviously not doing right now. They are not doing. I know I can't wait to just see the the carve out of the waste and all the bullshit and see what actually is left.
[01:21:20] Unknown:
I know just seeing, again, I'm not either side political. I think they're all full of shit, but seeing the line items of the things where money is going here, then like, it's like transgender mice, what? You know, like it's just ridiculous. Every little thing. It's like, why is the government spending a cent on any of this stuff? This makes zero sense. Like let the free markets do what they want to go do. But I guess it's just Yeah. It's just you think about like, Oh, look, we have a clubhouse and this is my buddy Fred over here and he's got this thing. Let's give him a few bucks so he can do his And it just like gets out of control like a giant beast.
So, alright. Any last thoughts? Like, you wanna, tell everybody what's going on? Let's talk about the rodeo, dude. Like, Yeah. What can people expect of the Bitcoin rodeo?
[01:22:14] Unknown:
Yeah. The Rodeo is, is a really awesome conference we put on. We started it in 02/2018. Cool. We we put it on here in Calgary. It's very focused on how Bitcoin is useful to the real world. It's not a technical conference at all. We have a lot of panels, and we try to bring in a lot of the sort of freedom community that's, you know, when we're talking about who do we talk to and who do we who do we orange pill, that's the group. The people that have been awakened to this this tyranny of the the ever increasing scope of government. And and I think COVID was the single best thing in terms of waking people up.
And now we have this large group of people out there who essentially have realized that the government does not have their best interests in mind. Yeah. And, you know, they they know that, like, this shit's just not right, but they don't necessarily see the solution yet. And we obviously think we do see the solution with Bitcoin. And so I think those are the people that are very ripe to be talking to. So we're gonna be having a lot of discussions about, you know, similar to what we're talking about, the nature of the states, the nature of of government, and where does Bitcoin fit into the real world. And I I think we're gonna have some some spicy stuff there. And then, yeah, we've always got a big focus on comedy. We did the roast of BTC sessions last year. That was a big hit. Cool. We do we do the bad Twitter takes. Nico and Ben do, they basically take take all the all the worst ideas from Twitter from the last year and just talk shit about them.
And, yeah, you can see we'll we'll have more, more speakers announced here fairly soon and more coming up. And, yeah, if you wanna come out, we'd love to have you. There's a a couple things that would,
[01:23:51] Unknown:
would would fit pretty well. Awesome. Maybe we'll do a women's brunch too or something for the ladies in in the town. Women do love brunch. We do love our brunches. That's what we do. Yeah. It's fun. I love Natalie does her brunch, you know, the last couple years at, Miami Bitcoin or, you know, Bitcoin conference, whatever. And I've been helping her with that. And, it's just, it's a nice way because I mean, you know what the ratio is of men to women in Bitcoin and, she always does it on the first day. So it's kind of like, okay, you're going into this 20,000 person crowd and there's 200 of us. Awesome.
Yeah. You can at least high five each other on the way to the bathroom with no line for the ladies' bathroom and a big line for the men's bathroom, which never happens anywhere. So we always love to laugh about that. But yeah, it's fun, man. It takes all of us to get together to rock Bitcoin. I love it. But, yeah, we'll talk offline about, you know, me getting over there and seeing what's up and what you guys are doing, how I can support you. But, yeah, that'll be cool. So okay. So we've got everybody check out bullbitcoin.com. Check out bitcoinrodeo.com.
Bitcoinwell Com. Dude, you got a lot going on. And you can follow, Dave on x at Bitcoin brains. Any final words for the people out there who might be on the fence about learning about Bitcoin and something that they could, you know, feel a little bit more confident taking the first step?
[01:25:13] Unknown:
Well, like like I said earlier, the the narrative has shifted, from only putting money that you can't afford to lose to only put in money that you can't afford to lose. And the Yeah. Thing that I always say, that that sometimes takes people off guard when they're, you know, just on the outside kinda skeptical about Bitcoin is just that it's very risky not to own any Bitcoin. When you start to looking at it that way, you know, the risk that everyone the majority of people have taken by not owning Bitcoin over the last ten years has been catastrophic for them financially. Totally.
[01:25:48] Unknown:
Do you know any I think Swan had something up there. They had a calculator of, like, if you would have saved, you know, $10 in Bitcoin a day or a week, you would have had this much, you know, versus Yeah. Saving $10 in fiat for, you know, this much. So do you know any other calculators people could check out for that?
[01:26:06] Unknown:
I can't think of this, but there was a website. I don't know. I I'm assuming it's still out there where you could actually, like, look up a product, and it'd be like, okay. Well, if you bought a first generation iPod Yeah. Or whatever, that'd be earlier. If you bought, like, you know, an iPhone in 02/2011 Uh-huh. Instead of Bitcoin, what does that cost you? Yeah. Like, it cost you 20 Bitcoin then. Now it cost you 0.2 Bitcoin or this you know? So Well or or or, like, your your iPhone that you paid 20 Bitcoin for back then is now, like, you know, $2,000,000. So, though those for for Bitcoiners are are painful to look at Yeah. But, can be illuminating for people who have not thought about it that way. I love that. I wanna look that up. So it's just like a Bitcoin
[01:26:51] Unknown:
product compared price calculator or something. Yeah. It makes a difference because you're just like, oh, I shouldn't bought some Bitcoin. Right on. Alright, Dave Bradley. Thanks for taking all this time with you and having your cold, experience out there smoking your cigar. The strongest and best looking Bitcoin entrepreneur in Canada just came on my show. I'm so grateful. I can't wait to see you up in Canada. Are you gonna be in, Vegas?
[01:27:23] Unknown:
Probably. I I think I may do what I did last year, which is go down. I went to Nashville and just didn't go to the conference. Okay. Cool. I think the side events are the the key with the big the big ones like that, anyways. So Yeah. There's gonna be Very very likely. Yeah. We're gonna be doing,
[01:27:39] Unknown:
a Toonster and Nostred, Boostagram Ball on Wednesday night there. Pubkey, Mike Germano are doing something there. I'm gonna probably help them out at some point. But on Tuesday night, I'm probably DJing at Zouk, which will be interesting. So that's like a whenever some super club. I'm like, alright. Stick me in there. Stick the geezer DJ in there. Let's go. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. I'm super excited. And, well, cool. Well, hopefully, I'll see you there, but I'll talk to you before then. And, yeah. Thanks everybody. And thank you all for tuning in. I hope you guys have the best day ever. And, happy thankful Thursday. Alright. Aloha.
Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Welcome to the show. I have somebody here with me who is, you know, notably and verifiably the strongest and best looking Bitcoin entrepreneur in Canada, Dave Bradley, the cofounder of Bull Bitcoin. Welcome, Dave. Thank you for having me. So you're you're outside, it seems like, and you're enjoying a little cigar this beautiful afternoon. What's happening, my brother?
[00:01:00] Unknown:
Well, it's March in Canada, and it's, like, six degrees Celsius, so that's pretty good. So I'm outside.
[00:01:07] Unknown:
You're like, yay. It's a warm day. And I know you I think you saw like I was, I was grilling outside a little bit ago. You know, I like grilling in the snow. There's just something about that. And it's like, yay, it's snowing. And there's meat on the grill. That's such a good thing. Let's talk about your meat fetish. Like, you have a meat thing going on. Before we get into all the other backstory of who's Dave Bradley and, all the things that you're doing with the Bitcoin rodeo and Bitcoin well, what's up with the meat?
[00:01:39] Unknown:
Well, I mean, meat is very important, obviously. It's what humans need to eat to live. It's an important part of a plant based diet. The things that I eat eat plants, so the diet is plant based. And, yeah, I mean, I I think, we're lucky here in Alberta to have the best beef in the world. So I talk that up a lot. And, you know, we we have this stuff called Brent Lake Wagyu. It's a cross between, Japanese Wagyu and an Alberta black Angus. So it's like, you know, you get Wagyu sometimes, and it's like it's like eating a stick of butter because it's just like it's so good, but it's just like very, very fatty, and you can, like, cut it with a fork. But it doesn't have, like, a ton of flavor beyond the fat. So the brand like Wagyu crossed with the black Angus has a much beefier taste and is still just, like, absolutely beautiful and marbled.
And I've never found beef that matches it anywhere in the world, and I talk a lot of shit about this. And everyone who's tried it has agreed with me.
[00:02:40] Unknown:
Okay. And so has this been your lifestyle for, you know, your whole life, or did you all of a sudden realize, like, I really need to eat, you know, a lot of of cow?
[00:02:52] Unknown:
And, you know Yeah. I mean, I think I think men, especially, we grow up with this kinda wired into our our the primitive parts of our brains that we're supposed to be eating meat. Like, that's the most desirable form of calories that we can take in. And, so I I always had that growing up, but, like, I actually grew up, eating terrible steaks. My parents cooked well done steaks and I ate ketchup.
[00:03:13] Unknown:
Oh, yeah, dude. Me too. It's like It was not good. Steaks, and you're just like, can I just have a grilled cheese, please?
[00:03:20] Unknown:
Yeah. And and it wasn't until adulthood that I discovered this Brant Lake Wagyu and, since then have been like, that's probably the main thing that I eat is the Brant Lake Wagyu.
[00:03:30] Unknown:
Say say the first part, Brant Wag?
[00:03:33] Unknown:
Brent Lake. Brent Lake. Okay. Thank you. It's a ranch in Southern Alberta, and they've got a butcher shop here in Calgary Okay. That I highly recommend. And then I was lucky enough to, was lucky enough to get a half of a pig from a Bitcoiner that I know who, he sells these, milk fed pigs. Okay. Milk fed pigs? I've never heard of this. Yeah. Neither had I. And they they have a couple dairy cows that they, they basically feed the pigs this mixture of, like, all the grains and stuff that they they normally would give them. Mhmm. But they they ferment them in fresh whole milk for a day. Fermented grains in fresh whole milk. Yeah. And so they they feed the pigs this mixture of, like, one day fermented milk and all the oats and whatever else they're feeding them and, supposedly helps with the digestion of the pigs, but the result is, like, the best pork I've ever had. It's like it's like red, like beef.
It's crazy.
[00:04:30] Unknown:
I know. And I'm I'm a fan I mean, I had those sausages today because I had sausage and steak, and I love love sausage. But it's like, you never know what the heck's inside of the ones that you get, and you you gotta be careful what you're getting, you know? Because it's sometimes it could just be the junk food leftovers of whatever. And Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And so I think that's an important thing. So, yeah, I think, you know, did you guys did you and Francis come up with bull Bitcoin because you guys love, you know, meat or because of bull markets? Or let's let's kinda come back to, like, who you are. Let's get, you know, come back to, hey. Hi. I'm Dave Bradley. I'm this, this, and this is my history.
You know, so let's let the audience know who you are, how you got to this place, you know, how you started bull Bitcoin and, you know, we'll go from there. Sure. Sure. My, the short version, I guess, I got into Bitcoin in 02/2010.
[00:05:18] Unknown:
I started working full time in Bitcoin in 2013 when I opened what I think was the first physical Bitcoin store in the world. Okay. We later merged the company behind that into another company to form Bull Bitcoin, in about 2018. Francis and I formed that. The name for Bull Bitcoin, I like, we were just kinda going back and forth with a bunch of different names, and that was the one that kinda
[00:05:42] Unknown:
stuck. And I think it it has proven to be a pretty iconic name. So a great name. I mean, obviously, you know, our goal is to have bull markets and bull runs and, you know Yeah. Obviously, don't mess with the bull, and we love meat. So it seems like it checks a lot of boxes.
[00:05:56] Unknown:
Yeah. And so, so I was with Bull Bitcoin there until, the early twenty twenty, at which point I left to start a software company making Bitcoin, software for Bitcoin ATMs. Oh, wow. And that that got me pulled into I ended up partnering up with, Adam O'Brien, who is CEO of Bitcoin Well now. Bitcoin Well. Yeah. Up on that software company. And that kinda got me sucked into Bitcoin Well, where I joined to take the company public, and, we went through that process. And then I I left my executive position there last year. No. Twenty twenty three. And, but I'm still on the board there. And since I've been sort of working on a bunch of small projects and doing some consulting and also have, an events and media company that we, we run a number of different things, including a conference called the, Bitcoin Rodeo, which is this June in Calgary, Alberta.
[00:06:49] Unknown:
June. I know. I've looked up at this site. Who's gonna be there? Like, because I'm I'm like, I need to get my butt up there and play some music with you guys and do some some talking. Hint hint.
[00:06:59] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. We we we would love to have you. We'd love to come, man. I would be so much We've got a we've got a pretty good lineup. You can check it out on bitcoinrodeo.com.
[00:07:08] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Let me I'm pulling this up right now here. So okay. Because let me pull it up because I've got Bitcoin let me share the screen here. Hold on here. Bitcoin rodeo. There we go. Alberta's Bitcoin conference. Okay. So
[00:07:24] Unknown:
so this is what I've got here. Where's the lineup? Yeah. So you can scroll there, if you just grab on to where the speakers are with Francis and Nico, etcetera there. Okay. Scroll to the right. Scroll to the right and to the left. Yep. You can see a bunch more of the speakers we've got there. We've got a a pretty good lineup of, we got a lot of Canadians as always, and, we have a really strong sort of core of Bitcorners here in Calgary as well. Mhmm. We got a bunch coming out from Vancouver and whatnot, and then we're we're really dipping into sort of, like, the freedom community as well. So you can see some people on there, like, like, Brett Olin there, who's the CEO of a company called, Bow Valley Credit Union, which is a credit union here in Alberta that, has been very pro Bitcoin and has been pro gold. And so they're actually putting, gold on the balance sheet of the bank so that if the entire financial system collapses, their depositors will have more than nothing, basically.
And, they haven't been able to do it from a regulatory perspective yet with, with Bitcoin, but they're quite pro Bitcoin, and we're working with them on a few different initiatives. So, that I think is is the way to go. You know, the small banks, get your money out of the big banks and and find a place that, will not abuse your trust the way that the large banks do.
[00:08:39] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, it's obviously, we're seeing a lot of different regulations come forward and hopefully I mean, who the heck knows? I mean, you know, obviously, here in The United States, it's different than what's going on in Canada. And we still love you, Canada. Like, whatever the hell these retarded politicians are doing, like, fuck them. Yeah, you know, seriously, I'm so over this. And I I was just doing a little post, remember the who, this, you know, meet the old boss, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I mean, we are getting fooled again, but we're not. You know? And I feel like it's just such a nightmare. And, you know, Bitcoin solves for this. What were you doing before you were, you know, in 2010 being a Bitcoiner?
[00:09:20] Unknown:
You know? I, I was kinda like a serial entrepreneur. Mhmm. I had just sold I had a company. We were doing recycling, actually, in the city of Calgary. We had a bunch of trucks trucks going around picking up people's recycling before there was a city system, and and also before I learned that recycling was a giant scam. But, part of part of running that company did expose me to that and sort of got that was that was sort of some of the first first times I would be in my twenties, when I was exposed to the fact that, you know, a lot of the structures that we see that make up the world that are sort of endorsed by the traditional powers that be are actually just bullshit.
[00:10:00] Unknown:
They're bullshit. What what was your crack into that? Like, how did did you just see, like, recycling's not happening, the funding's going somewhere else? Like, what was the Yeah. So you know, veil that got removed?
[00:10:11] Unknown:
Yeah. Once I dug into it, I learned that, like, the only thing that actually makes sense outright to recycle is metal because it's it's a lot more expensive to dig new metal out of the ground and refine it than it is to recycle old metal. Okay. And it's also there it's also much more environmentally friendly to not have to dig another giant hole in the ground. So metal recycling makes sense unequivocally. Paper recycling is kinda like a wash. Like, it's a renewable resource, and it's, like, costs pretty similar for the recycled paper at this point. And there's lots of good things they can make with recycled paper.
Glass is just basically fake. Like, glass is made out of silicone or sand. Right? So, like, it's the most plentiful element on Earth. We don't need to recycle that at all, and there's not really possible to recycle glass. Gets made into, like, reflective paint and fiberglass, technically, but you could just make that out of primary materials. And then the biggest scam, though, is the plastics recycling, which is not even a real thing. We were paying a company, essentially, to ship our plastics to China for recycling. Mhmm. And, you know, that was before we kinda learned about how plastics recycling works. And it you know, you can't really just recycle a mixed blend of plastics. You need to separate them by polymer and color and all this stuff.
And, it's just not realistic. And so I I speculate. You know, you've heard of this, like, giant Pacific garbage patch. Mhmm. I I think that is actually all of the recycled plastic from North America for the last Recycled years. Basically, like, we just dumped that shit here and didn't actually recycle it. Yeah. Yeah. They they they pay a Chinese company to take it. They have no use for it on the other end Yeah. Because it's not actually recyclable. So cheapest thing for them is to just get out into the ocean and dump it into the ocean.
[00:11:53] Unknown:
And so was there any traceability? You know? Like, you know, obviously, this was back in, you know, before 2010. You know? You could stick a little Yeah. What is it? Those air tags on the Yeah. The patch and just be like, where the heck is this stuff going? And you're like, woah. I'm in, you know Yeah. Near Fiji or something or whatnot. Fiji is too south, but,
[00:12:11] Unknown:
near Yeah. We we we never we never had any way to trace it. I have seen some some YouTubes and whatnot of people who have traced the recycling lately. And one thing that you find that actually makes more sense than sending it to China is that in a lot of cases, they're just bailing it and then burying it. And that's what they do here in Calgary. You know, that there's a city of Calgary program is they just bury the plastic, underground at the landfill. So very similar to what they do with regular garbage. But their whole thing is, like, we're waiting to see if markets develop.
And if they do, we'll dig this up. But in a in a in another roundabout way, all you have to do is wait another, like, twenty or thirty million years, and it'll just go back to being oil. So God. Yeah. I don't think we have that much time.
[00:12:51] Unknown:
I've heard that there are, you know, when there's, like, an oil spill and stuff that they use, like, certain, I don't know, fungi, fungi, fungi, you know, to, like, eat the plastic or eat the oil and stuff. Is that something that you are aware of, you know, that could be a solution for all of this plastic?
[00:13:07] Unknown:
I've I've heard of that. I I think that the the solution like, plastic isn't really a problem in my my view. It's more that what what's a problem is that it ends up on the ground. It ends up in the river. But doesn't it end up in your ball sack too? Yeah. Well and and that that's a bigger a bigger question. That seems like a nightmare problem to me. I don't know if I had in my child's ball sack or yours or any of Dan's ball sacks. Yeah. So so that that's a different question, I guess, is whether or not we should be using plastic. And I think that the world has at least moved a little bit away from plastic food packaging and and whatnot and that people are becoming more aware that that's a bad idea. But I I think we're, I think we're in this, this place that we're, like, once we've used the plastic, like, collecting it and putting it properly in a landfill, to me, doesn't seem like that's a problem. Like, the world is not running out of space. We we have space,
[00:14:01] Unknown:
and it it's it's just a matter of whether that space is close to where people wanna throw away their trash. Well, do you think that it's I mean, because I look at, like, whatever the space is. Right? So if that space starts to deteriorate and then the plastic leaches into the soil or the water, you know, and then it gets into our systems because of that, that's a concern for me, you know, as a mom. And, you know, it is I was just in Detroit, you know, you know, with my mom in the hospital. And I went out a couple times to eat, and I was at the hospital and all this stuff. I mean, they're still just using Styrofoam. Here we go. Here's Styrofoam. Everything's in plastic. I mean, there was zero conscientiousness about maybe we could think about something else. And it was such a like, what decade are we here in? You know, and so we're not in a third world developing country. We're in, you know, Michigan. And so it was just this like, and even here in Colorado, you know, I was at this restaurant this weekend with my daughter and her friends and, you know, we had a little to go thing. And it was Elon Musk's brother, Kimbal Musk's place, the kitchen. And, you know, they're all, oh, everything's organic and blah blah blah, you know, and they give you the to go thing. And the the the tray of the to go thing was like a, you know, cardboard ish type thing, and then they put plastic on top.
And I'm like, yeah, thanks. So it just feels like there's there's there's such a disconnect with people understanding the truth about materials and what the best way to produce them and reuse them and whatnot. I was just at a basketball game last night with my kid and his dad and his girlfriend. And, everything there was metal. Like they didn't have plastic water bottles. They were all aluminum water bottles, you know? And I was like, okay, that makes sense. Because just like you said, metal makes more sense to recycle than, you know, plastic or glass. So I thought that was cool. But how do you think like, because I'm gonna segue this into Bitcoin, but like, where is the disconnect for the systems and the powers that be to like have some consensus on what are the truly the best practices that are in the highest and best good for humans and the earth.
[00:16:11] Unknown:
You know? Yeah. And, I mean, I I would say plastics are a bit of a double edged sword because the sort of revolution of plastics that we saw over the last hundred or so years has revolutionized manufacturing of literally everything in the world. Right? Like Yeah. Injection molded plastics, like my headphones, my computer, my shoes. The lid here, everything. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's very useful, and it's driven a massive amount of human prosperity. It's part of, you know, the the the most productive century of of of humanity's existence was the the last one. And we made more strides, and, a huge part of those strides was because of the fact that we were able to harness energy and materials in ways that we had never really been able to do before. And so Mhmm. Those strides have led to more human prosperity than anything else. You know, the the petroleum industry is the single most positive industry for the history of the world by by such a wide margin that it's not even close. Like Yeah. Literally billions of people have been have been saved by the oil and gas industry over the last hundred years. Yeah. That said, plastics in particular have become so cheap and so ubiquitous that they've become a big part of our disposable culture. And, you know, there's there are you know, they're making cars almost entirely out of plastic these days.
And we're at a point where you really cannot escape plastic in your life. Like, it's everywhere, and it's gotten to the point where, you know, we've started to realize, like, maybe we don't want the plastic touching our food. Right? Maybe we don't want maybe we don't want the plastic touching our balls. Like, what whatever whatever, whatever it is. And and it it takes a little bit of effort to even avoid, plastics at all in your life. And I I think it's just sorta kinda creeping in, and and this is, I hope, part of the very first stages. You know, the whole the, the saying of, like, weak men create good times, good times create weak men. Yeah. Etcetera. Right? Yeah. So we're we're we're firmly in the weak men create hard times Yeah. Section. We're we're like Very firm. We're like a third of the way into that portion of it, I think. I think there's there's room for our political leaders to make things a lot worse before they start to get better. But I'd like to hope that we as Bitcoiners are part of the tip of the spear of people who are waking up to that and, you know, becoming the the the hard man that will create good times for future generations. Yeah. And that that I think comes with the awareness of, like, you know,
[00:18:38] Unknown:
even ten years ago, your water bottle might have been plastic. So Oh, totally. And I remember and it was, you know, it was the Nalgene, you know, bottles that you got from REI or whatever. And you're like, oh, look, they're so rugged and strong. You know, they can smash down if you're going hiking and they'll still be good. You know? And, you know, I mean, I think so much of everything is marketing. You know, it's just communication and who's got control of the narrative and who's got the incentive to make the narrative a certain way. You know? And I think a lot of people are so hypnotized, you know, as we talk about Heather with her Unhyptitized podcast, and I love her so much. So again, thanks for introducing me to her. I love her.
You know, we are walking around as a hypnotized culture, you know, and it's by design, obviously, because there's profit on the other side, and there's control on the other side of that hypnotized state of being. And so it is, you know, let me ask you this, have you been like, because you're obviously, you know, starting Bull Bitcoin and doing the Bitcoin Rodeo and working with Bitcoin well and having Bitcoin brains as the first, you know, hardware store. Was your, was your worldview before you got to Bitcoin? And obviously, you said you've kind of started seeing the cracks in the system with the recycling. Like, had you been brought up conservatively?
Have you been brought up, like, you know, I'm a I'm a free thinker, hippie. You know? I don't know. I'm just curious. Like, what's your background? Because you're clearly, like, very, like, fuck the system, you know? Yeah. Which I love. So, you know? Yeah, I'm just curious. Like, how what's what's the arc for your story?
[00:20:13] Unknown:
Yeah. That was something I had to learn on my own. I'm in, like, the most conservative city in probably in Canada Really? We're we're the Alberta is like, we're always referred to as, like, the Texas of of Canada. Okay. We're we're the oil industry here, and, yet I grew up with very liberal parents. And, you know, the saying is always like, you know, if you're not a liberal when you're 20, then you don't have a heart. And if you're not a conservative when you're 40, then you don't have a brain. And I and I, I basically just I followed that path pretty directly. I went to I went to university here. I never really jived with the, sort of, like, stereotypical, like, follow the plan and fit in sorta, path. You know, I'm a very rare, high school and university dropout. It's hard to accomplish both of those, but, but I did. And, yeah, I mean, I I didn't really start, seeing and I would I would argue seeing the world for the way that it is, until after I got into Bitcoin. And I got into Bitcoin like most people as a way to make some money. And Yeah. For me money money money meant dollars. And I was like, I wanna I wanna wanna mine some Bitcoin or buy some Bitcoin that I can sell for more dollars later so that I can be rich or increase my standard of living or whatever else. All the reasons that people get into Bitcoin. And it was probably years. You know?
Back then, there was no Bitcoin standard. There was no sailor series on hard money. There was very little very little content, even discussing Bitcoin in that light. And a lot of the stuff that was out there when you look back at, like, you know, Roger Ver when he was a Bitcoiner and Andreas Antonopoulos and all these people there, a lot of what they were selling was more the, usefulness of Bitcoin as a transactional tool and a censorship resistant transactional tool at that. Yeah. But a peer to peer cash, you know, is the it was called in the in the white paper. And and that, I think, was kind of a simplistic way of looking at it because even though that's where Bitcoin is going, it kind of ignored that first vital step of the store of value, which is really what makes it so that something can even be a form of money. And it wasn't until, there was a guy named Mirska Propesku that, some people out there will know who, he was he was the first one that I read.
[00:22:39] Unknown:
It's a really tough one. Name again? I don't know this name.
[00:22:41] Unknown:
Mirska Propesku. Mirska
[00:22:45] Unknown:
Propesku.
[00:22:46] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. Cohen. And he, he was a, a very early Bitcoiner who was really looking at it right from the start as, like, fuck the government. Fuck the state. These are this this is not a a consensual relationship that I have with the state, and Bitcoin is my tool to emancipate myself from the chains that they have put on me from birth, essentially. And that's that was the first time that I heard that sort of framing of Bitcoin as this sort of, like, revolutionary tool to remove the, ever expanding reach and power of of the state that, you know, we've we've we've seen through our entire lives. It's just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and it doesn't seem like, you know, we might have a brief reprieve here with the Doge stuff where they're they're pruning some of the truly insane. But, like, does anybody believe that the 2026 United States budget has a chance of being lower than the 2016 United States budget? Like, obviously not. Right? So, and we're we're on that trajectory. And if we didn't have Bitcoin, we'd be fucked.
[00:23:52] Unknown:
We would be so fucked. I mean, we would be so fucked on, like, a thousand levels. You know? I I don't know about you, but, like, I mean, my mental health has been so much exponentially better because of Bitcoin. I cannot imagine, like, you know, I I have many relationships in the world and I have a lot of relationships with people from all, all colors of the spectrum. Right? And I look at people who are in, you know, outside of the Bitcoin space and don't understand Bitcoin, but they're still operating in this, you know, the matrix. And I'm just like, it's fucking depressing.
Like, it's so depressing, you know, and I do my best to try to be a, you know, a gentle orange pillar. I used to try to orange pill pretty hard and then I realized that doesn't it's not effective in certain areas. So I'm just sort of like, how can I have a conversation about what people's pain points are, you know, marketing 101, and, you know, understand them and have empathy and then just talk about things that like what is impacting their life? And you were saying this earlier, I forget it was before after we record hit record, but like, if if you pull push back a couple dots, you know, from almost any argument or any situation, Bitcoin is a solution for many, many things, you know, again, whether it's, you know, a mental health thing, whether it's a family issue, whether it's the environment, whether it's the system, whether it's banking, it's like Bitcoin, definitely, It's not Windex in the big fat Greek wedding, but it kind of is for many things.
Yeah, it's such a It's a trip, man. It is definitely a trip thinking about like, the privilege that we have to have gotten the message. And not just gotten the message, but absorbed it. And now we have some energy behind activating it, you know, and building this new system. Tell me how bill bull bull Bitcoin came along with you and Francis.
[00:25:52] Unknown:
Yeah. So it it kinda came along as we we had started working together. We were both in the business of selling Bitcoin, and so we were buying and selling from each other. Back then, there was a lot harder to get Bitcoin in Canada, especially for dealers, and so we all had to sort of buy and sell off of each other and, got to know Francis that way. And then where it all came from was, during the the block size wars, there was an attempt, to form a consensus around a fork called Bitcoin unlimited. And, you know, a bunch of people had gotten together, and big names in the space had signed on to support this Bitcoin unlimited thing. And, Francis and I were talking about this, and we you know, the thing that emerged from our talks was that the biggest issue was not even necessarily the block size change, although we did disagree with the the technical details on the block size change.
It was the fact that you had this group of people who had appointed themselves as sort of the the deciders, you know, the people who are going to be the ones making this change. And so we decided to organize a little bit and oppose that, and we wrote this letter that you can still find out there somewhere, that was basically, like, Canada opposes the Bitcoin unlimited fork. And we we got about 15 or 16, I think, Canadian Bitcoin companies to sign on to that letter. And, that sort of spiraled into a group that, you know, became part of the big opposition to, the the block size increase and was eventually the the no two a, faction.
And, you know, as we got to know each other better through that, we kinda started talking about, like, essentially forming a Bitcoin super company in Canada. And we had talked to a couple other companies about getting them into the merger and just couldn't get to the right terms. And, eventually, like, you know, we were like, we're we two are the most aligned when it comes to our values around Bitcoin and and what we actually wanna achieve and what we wanna build and and sort of, like, the freedom tools that we wanna empower people with, I guess, was the the vision originally. And, you know, I I haven't been, act like, involved in the company in a while on a day to day basis, but Francis has obviously built, like, a very world class Bitcoin exchange. It's probably the best Bitcoin platform in the world, I would say, at this point. And, in terms of the tools that gives the freedom and privacy minded as well as, the ability to buy Bitcoin without all the noise and, nonsense of of all the other coins and also,
[00:28:13] Unknown:
purely noncustodial, which is very important. And I think that's, that's something that's very lacking It's so lacking. In the world. Yeah. And I and I think that's such an important thing for folks to understand, like, because there's so many new people out there like, I bought my Bitcoin. I'm like, Where is it? And that's the first question I like to ask folks. And, Oh, it's on Coinbase, it's here. I'm like, Okay, it's not your Bitcoin then. You don't own Bitcoin. You have an IOU. And so I like how Bull Bitcoin just instantly will, it's like, we're never touching your, we're not holding it for you, it goes straight to your custody. And so, what's been your experience with, I'm doing a monthly Women in Bitcoin meetup in Denver.
And so we have a variety of, it's always, when any meetup you go to, right? There's always like complete newbies who don't even know what a seed phrase is all the way up to minor women and different things. Like, how do you, how do you emphasize the absolute importance of self custody for people?
[00:29:13] Unknown:
I mean, I I think there's gonna be an area here where sort of something in between self custody and the current custody model is gonna be coming out. Mhmm. We've been working on some things with with both whole Bitcoin and Bitcoin well and another company that I'm on the board on because and and I've I've had this conversation, for example, with with Corey from from Swan when they're they're an example where, like, they're a custodial platform, but they try to get everybody to take the Bitcoin off of there. Right? And I think that's a good step. But the structure that they use still puts the funds of their customers at risk. Totally. And and and right now, something for Canadians that's actually a big worry is the fact that with our, like, our larger exchanges that are you know, the shitcoin exchanges that trade everything in custody of everybody's coins, all of those companies in a roundabout way, one way or the other, are pretty much storing their Bitcoin in, Coinbase or Fidelity custody.
So they're they're in they're they're regulated by the state of New York and the government of the United States, and that has nothing to do with me. Right? So it would be even more insane to trust a custodian that keeps your coins in a different country, let alone a country that you're, like, in a trade war with. Exactly. The chances that we, we get to a point where Trump decides to take 20% off the top of all Canadians' Bitcoins held in Canada,
[00:30:34] Unknown:
that doesn't seem super far fetched at all or or held in The US. Right? And so No. I I know. Well, we look at, like, a sixty one zero two order here, and it's just sort of like, okay. Anyone who's got Bitcoin anywhere,
[00:30:46] Unknown:
it's ours. Because it's
[00:30:48] Unknown:
national security. We need to confiscate all your stuff. And so what do you think about solutions like, Unchained or the Bitcoin advisor or AnchorWatch, you know, who are doing, you know, collaborative custody?
[00:31:04] Unknown:
Yeah. So those are a good step for sure. There is, like, an added layer of complexity when you get into multisig like that. Mhmm. And not everybody wants to do that. That that that ends up being the big barrier, and that's why most companies haven't gone to that point. And that that tends to be with the noncustodial companies where you get a big drop off from a product standpoint of customers going through the flow of the product. They get to the point where they have to enter their Bitcoin address, and they're like, oh, shit. I don't have one. You know? And then Yeah. And then you lose clients at that point. And so adding that multisig and everything like that, I think that's a good idea for somebody holding a larger amount who has the time to set that up and and sorta, you know, take their their journey into Bitcoin more seriously, that's a great way to go. But I think there's there's a new model. I don't know what we're gonna be calling it yet. It's it's technically functions a lot like custody, but it uses a different, legal model.
And so there's a couple companies that have set up regulated trust companies here in Alberta, and we were working with one of them that uses something called bailment, which Bailment? Yeah. It basically means that the coins so when you put your coins in Coinbase or or Swan or one of these custodial exchanges, you don't own the coins. You have an IOU from the company for the coins. And that means you're a creditor of this company, and you're an unsecured creditor. So Yeah. If they go bankrupt and, you know, they end up with a giant hack as always happens, especially if they're trading all these other coins, like, inevitably, like and and this is this is a % certainty that at some point, Coinbase will become will be hacked because of Ethereum.
It's a % certain. Yeah. It's just a matter of when. And whether or not they're solvent after that fact is is a big thing. And, you know, we've seen with, like, the FTX bankruptcy, Mt. Gox, our own version in in Canada with Quadriga, that when these things go into bankruptcy, the the the people holding their coins in those exchanges end up getting pennies on the dollar. And that's because they're weighed against all of the assets of the company, whereas with this bailment model, the end user retains full legal legal title to their coins. And because it's a trust company, this trust company is able to hold their coins, with without transferring the title to themselves. So there's no IOUs involved. It there's still no coins held by, like, the the retailer, the company that sells the coins. Mhmm. That that I think is really important is if you are gonna hold your coins with anybody, they should be somebody who just does that.
[00:33:37] Unknown:
I like that. I I think that's obviously a much more intelligent model. What do you what's the, business model there? Are they taking, like, a point? What are they taking? They'll they'll they'll they'll charge, they'll charge an annual fee. It's a lot lower than that. It's more like, 50 or 60 bips. So Okay. Yeah. That's what AcuraWatch is doing. They're at, like, point five five. So Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And and, you know, whatever. I you know, my ex husband had a hedge fund, and so I'm very familiar with people, like, having the normal, you know, two and twenty or whatever you're doing, you're used to paying fees. I mean, but again, like, if you're looking at, you know, whatever, fifty, sixty bips, basis points, you know, for people who don't know what that is, it's just like a half a percent, you know, half a percent, point 6%.
When you've got a lot of money, you know, that's that does add up over time. However, it is it's just your insurance policy, you know, and it's just basically like, what's your insurance policy in a million dollar house? Like how much does it cost you? $6 a year, that's point six, that's 60 beeps. So it's just getting your head around that. I think, especially as people who are like, you know, screw this. I don't want my money in the system. It's just kinda like, okay, cool. Go do you know, dig a hole in your yard and put your seed plate in it. Awesome. You know, like, do that. But there's other people who are especially, you know, more in the legacy system who are just, they don't wanna, they're not interested in doing that type of custody for themselves, especially if you're a company.
And so I think being open minded is super important as a Bitcoiner because there's no one size fits all for how you're going to custody your generational wealth and your freedom. And so obviously to me, I think about like, okay, does it make sense to have a chunk that is, you know, really, really ultra cold like that? And then have something where it's like, oh, if I gotta get out of Dodge, like, I don't need to go call up the trust to transfer some stuff for me. It's just I got it. You know? And so there's layers and ways that you would can organize your wealth.
[00:35:48] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I look at it as, like, a way to get into the space. Yeah. Like, the the people that, that that leave right at that point where they could be putting their own address in and they decide, I don't wanna learn this. But maybe what they're deciding is I don't wanna learn this yet. Yeah. In a lot of time in a lot of cases, what I've seen in the past, especially back in the day when we didn't have, nearly as good of infrastructure for storing your Bitcoin. You know, there was a question at one point there there was a time when we all stored our Bitcoin with no hardware wallets because they didn't exist. And then there was a there was a point in time where it was like, is it worth it for bot to to put some some of my money into a hardware wallet also? You know? Is this Yeah. Better served going to this than going to Bitcoin.
And, you know, a lot of cases, what ended up happening was people would put some money into Bitcoin. And and back then, the saying was always don't put money in that you can't afford to lose, and it gets shifted to only put money in that you can't afford to lose. And, but but the way that I would say is don't put money in that you need soon. Yeah. Because it it it's obviously still very volatile, and all of our prices are in dollars. So, that that can be an issue. But, what ends up happening is, you know, you put some money in, and then you you get to your second cycle. You're four years in, and all of a sudden, the money you put in is worth putting a lot more attention into. Yeah. It becomes a lot bigger percentage of your net worth. And at that point, you know, these people who've used a fairly easy to facilitate custodial system that is much safer than the way that exchanges are doing it now, the way that has proven time and time again that it has the potential to burn people. Yeah.
You know, I think it's a it could be a gateway to the self custody and a gateway to, taking that extra layer of sovereignty. Because, really, like, you you get about two thirds of the benefits of owning Bitcoin if you, if you just have price exposure, I would say. And the rest, you you in fact need to hold it yourself.
[00:37:44] Unknown:
Yeah. And it's it's layered. You know? It's like a step by step type process. And I know, you know, when I first started learning about Bitcoin, like, now it's gonna be almost four years ago, I'm still, you know, I still consider myself a total noob, you know, but I'm like a nerd, a nerdy noob. But like when I was like, you know, I had some Bitcoin on, Coinbase and I'm like, I don't wanna mess this up. You know, it's like, whatever, a thousand bucks, it wasn't a whole bunch of money, but it was like, a thousand bucks is a lot to me. And, and I didn't wanna lose it. So I was like, well, I'm gonna hire somebody who's like a Bitcoin security person, you know? And it was like good guy biker. And I'm like, teach me how to put this on my cold storage so I don't mess it up, you know? And even though Ben, BTC Sessions is the best, you know, and he's got the best, best, best tutorials ever. If you guys don't know who I'm talking about, go follow BTC Sessions, the best. And check out beat Bitcoin Mentor also. Like, those guys are rocking it.
But this was obviously Bitcoin Mentor is, you know, what I got did, you know, four years ago, but minus having the company. But some people like I'm older, you know, I'm not this like cryptographer girl or something, you know, and I'm not a developer. And I'm like, I don't want to mess this up because if this does grow, I don't want to make a mistake and then all of a sudden go, oops, I didn't put the right code in or the digits or I messed up, whatever. And so I think for many people, like to feel comfortable having their hands held, you know, is no shame. You know, there's no shame in like going step by step.
But really making sure whoever's guiding you knows what the heck they're talking about, right? And it's kind of like, how do you know the person who's guiding you isn't going to like, I'm going to put my address in instead of yours. So it's like, you know, d y o r, do your own research everybody and make sure you're, you know, you feel comfortable. I mean, like, what's happened with Lynn Alden and Larry Lapard with their Twitter accounts? Did you see what went on, like, recently?
[00:39:42] Unknown:
Not really, no. They got hacked. Out of the loop on on Twitter drama.
[00:39:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Well, like, this recently, like, there's been, like, this really super duper big old hack with Bitcoiner accounts. And so and those guys are like the shit, right? And so even if they can get hacked in this kind of, and it was a social hacking type thing, because it was like, hey, we're from Forbes magazine or blah, blah, blah, you know, and we wanna interview you because we love your book. And you click on the link and then somehow it all of a sudden gives them access to your Twitter account. I have no idea, you know, I don't know how that works, but like the sophistication of hacks out there are so intimidating. And then I think they just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And the more that we have exposed, you know, financially, it's kind of like, are we doing the $5 wrench attack? Are we getting, you know, cyber attacked?
How do you tell people to stay secure? Like, what are some advice, you know, that you would give to people listening who are like, I don't wanna get hacked or I don't, you know, any of that. Well, the first thing you should do is never go on Bitcoin podcasts. Definitely don't go. Only go on a a music podcast with a chicken and a pink hat. Yeah.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
There's there's value in, anonymity, certainly. Yeah. There's, like, some security and anonymity. But, yeah, I mean, we're getting to a point where it's not just Bitcoin. All of our lives are so digital that really just Yeah. Basically, everybody needs to have some familiarity with, you know, basic phishing and how to how to spot those things and just operating with a little bit of caution. You know? It's like, my my son is nine, and he's, you know, he's just kinda getting to be able to use the Internet a little bit without Uh-huh. Much supervision. And, you know, I'm having to teach him, like, about, you know, don't don't click on links. Like, you know, people will try to steal from you. People will try to harm you in some way online. And it's, it's really unfortunate, but it's just kinda how the world is. And you need to be on guard for that, really.
You need to be aware of, of what you're putting in your computer and what you're putting on your phone and, you know, where your where your weak points are because having your Bitcoin stolen is probably the most obvious one that we all think of. But we've got all these other valuable digital assets like our Twitter accounts. Yeah. Our domains that Yeah. That are potentially attackable by by bad actors. And so, I would shout out that one good security tip that I would, I would give is, a company that I'm just just in the process of switching all my domains and hosting over to after going through, some of their security procedures and whatnot with them is a company called EasyDNS.
[00:42:22] Unknown:
And they've got Say spell it out.
[00:42:25] Unknown:
EasyDNS.
[00:42:26] Unknown:
Like e a s y d n s? Yep. Okay.
[00:42:30] Unknown:
Yep. And, they're, they're good, Canadian based company that, is run by a Bitcoiner, and they take the security seriously the way that you'd expect from a company run by a Bitcoiner. So
[00:42:42] Unknown:
I love it. I know there's so many like, you know, again, when we deal with, you know, normies or people, like most of my family, they're not Bitcoiners. They still think I'm insane. That's okay. It's like, I've saved a little Bitcoin for you guys on the side and it's gone up, so you're welcome. One day you'll be a believer. But like when I do talk about security, and again, I'm not like some cyber expert or anything, but I'm like, You need to have two FA. You need to do all these other things. And they're like, Nobody's going to I'm like, Oh my God. Somebody I know in my family, I'm not going to say who it was, but they clicked the button and it was too good to be true. Like, oh, we're going to send us $1,000 and we're going to send you 2,000 or whatever it was. It was some stupid thing. And, of course, I'm getting all the alerts, you know, and it was just like, okay, this is like the dude from Nigeria or whatever who's going to, you know? And especially when you're desperate, if you're somebody who, and I'm not saying my family members were desperate, but when you're in a position, anybody, you know, who's who's feeling, you know, disempowered, if you're feeling broke, if you don't have a lot of energy or time and something shows up and it appears to be this magical, solution for you, you. I know what it's like to feel down and out. And so when something shows up and it feels that way, you're like, Well, what have I got to lose? And you click on it and something happens that makes it even worse for your life. And so, I mean, not to be negative, but it's like you have to be a hypervigilant individual in this world. You have to be. If you're not, like you're the prey for these predators.
And they're just one after the other. So if it's not you, it's the next guy, the next guy, the next guy. And so I just feel like being a Bitcoiner has completely shifted my view of security and privacy and safety. I mean, obviously, I'm out there, you know, and but just security wise, I feel like it's taught me a lot.
[00:44:55] Unknown:
Yeah. And I I'm just gonna turn off my camera for one sec because I realized I forgot my coffee inside. Oh, yeah. I need I I need a coffee with the cigar.
[00:45:05] Unknown:
You can't live without have you had the, El Salvador coffee? Like, from, oh my god. There's the volcano coffee. There's oh my god. Come on. Choritos coffee. Have you had any El Salvador coffee there, Dave?
[00:45:20] Unknown:
No. I haven't. I, I haven't. I'm not I'm not I've been skeptical of El Salvador the whole time. But Really? Yeah. I mean, I I'm not,
[00:45:29] Unknown:
I'm not Do you want me to reverse go in your go to your settings and make sure that you're on, like, go to your, like, the gear icon and just hit it and make sure you're on, high def or whatever the high res is for your video because you're a little grainy.
[00:45:42] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Cool. There we go. Right. But, yeah, I I, I've been skeptical. I'm I I'm not prone to trust any government. Yeah. Totally. To see that with with the stuff coming out with the IMF loans and, you know, maybe we can trust this guy, but for how long and on what is the the question with El Salvador. So I've been broadly skeptical on the sort of, like, rosy picture that they're painting of, like, don't worry. We're the Bitcoin government. We're the government for Bitcoiners. And it's it it feels like a honeypot to me.
[00:46:18] Unknown:
I mean, it's one of those things that I'd look at everything. I mean, this is like, you know, what is it? Bitcoin's a, you know, a teenager at this point. And so it's so young. It's such a young experiment. And so the fact that it's starting to hit mainstream and then now within the last couple of years, the governments are starting to wake up. Who the heck knows what's gonna happen tomorrow here in The United States with their bullshit crypto summit? You know, blah. I don't trust anything that I can't look behind the curtains. You know, if I can't see what's going on, like, and connect the dots, as far as I'm concerned, it's just one big sigh out smokescreen bullshit, you know?
And someone's benefiting and I'm not that one. I might be told that I'm the one so that I can keep putting up my little cheerleader thing, but it doesn't mean that's accurate. You know? And so I'm totally with you with you know? I don't trust the government. I don't trust systems. You know? I don't certainly don't trust anything bureaucratic. But it's it's it's the most concentration of power to play the game for a little while. You know? And so it's what's interesting though, it's like they're playing the game with the tool, Bitcoin, and the network of Bitcoin that is it's not under their control.
Yeah. You know? And that's what makes that, I think, very cool and interesting.
[00:47:42] Unknown:
Yeah. And they don't they don't really see Bitcoin for what it is whatsoever. Yeah. If if they did, they'd be very against it. Right? Totally. They can't control it. The the big Bitcoin will be the technology that ends the government of The United States unequivocally. The United States as a country will cease to exist and Bitcoin will be the reason. That that's almost a a certainty at this point, I would say. But what the politicians have seen is that first I think the first thing that they saw is a voter block. Right? A bunch of people who are very much single issue voters who will die on this hill. Yeah.
The the the free Ross thing was probably the easiest way Ross. To to to buy a bunch of votes. And that that's that's great. But that's something that governments love to do, you know, is they they crack down on your freedoms or in this case, obviously, very significantly, the freedoms of one person. Mhmm. And and then they're in a position to give them back and seem like they're benevolent when they give them back. And the fact is that the the very structure that allowed the imprisonment of Ross Albrecht in the first place was evil. That was that was wrong. That was a power system that neither he nor any of us have opted into.
And he was the victim of that power system and the victim of all the money moving behind the scenes. And what what I think is going on now is that Bitcoin has just gotten big enough to the point where it's starting to be part of the money moving behind the scenes. And I think that the obvious next step that they've realized is that Bitcoiners and the crypto industry at whole can be a source of contributions, money, bribes, essentially. Right? And we're seeing that in in very clear terms right now with this administration that, like, obviously, the shit corners who printed their own money have a lot more money to pay bribes with. Yeah. And you see that in this in the form of of Justin Sun's seventy five million dollar donation to Trump, and suddenly his SCC charges get dropped. Right?
So, there's nothing really different that's going on. The this administration is profiting from the fact that the absurdity of the spending had gotten so extreme to the point where it was just, like, the Democrats and the the sort of globalist elite that backed the Ukrainian war and that rule most of Europe. They they were they're in full looting mode. They're just grabbing as much money for themselves and their own pet projects as they could. And that's where you see these things where it's just, like, millions of dollars going to, like, you know, like, support girls' climate action in Peru. And it's like Yeah. Like, that's the dumbest thing I can think of. And it it, it's gotten so extreme that now just by canceling those things, they seem like the good guys. Right? But in fact, like, they're they're still sending billions of dollars to foreign countries for war, and they're still printing money without our consent. They're still stealing from us, and they're still spending the money that they steal in ways that are a net negative. Like, let alone not just the spending. If the if the entire government went away and we still had to pay the same amount in terms of inflation and taxes, I think that'd be a net positive.
[00:50:47] Unknown:
Well, let's let's unpack that a little bit because this is, like, a common argument I hear and I have conversations with folks. The reality is, okay, Dave, if you and I decided to be roommates, there's gonna have to be some type of a governance structure of, like, does the toilet seat go up or down? We have to have an agreement. Oh, do you put the toothpaste upside down or this way? You know? And so I don't care. The minute you have two people or more who have to come together in any situation and have agreements, that's called governance. And so, the idea of, you know, that this is gonna create, you know, the government's gonna collapse and this and that. I'm like, yep. That's the rinse and repeat throughout all history. And so there are times when things have to get so big and bloated and disgusting that they explode and they have to collapse, you know? And then there's that time of chaos and disorder, but then there is some other sense sense of order and structure that comes through it, you know? And so is it like Lord of the Flies, you know, when the kids are on the island and it's like, okay, piggy pass the conk, you know? And it's like there's always gonna be some set of, agreed upon rules and not everyone's gonna wanna follow them and not everyone's gonna agree that, this is how I think they should be and I lost the vote. And so there's always gonna be some, clashing when you have one or more, you know, two or more humans that come together. And so it's like, with that said, you know, what is the way that we can move forward and realize like government is never gonna go away. It's not. Yeah. You know, this particular version of it, or maybe these folks in it, but like there's always gonna be institutions. There's always gonna be configurations.
There's always gonna have to be some something, you know, to keep the wheels on the bus going round and round. You know? And so what do you think about that? I mean, there's never gonna be no government.
[00:52:51] Unknown:
Yeah. I I think we're entering a time, and, a lot of these ideas come from a book called The Sovereign Individual that I would highly recommend anybody read. Yeah. So Yeah. I think we're entering a time where, we're gonna end up with a lot more countries in the world. We're probably ten, fifteen years from now that instead of being 300 or so countries in the world, there's probably gonna be 5,000 because the day of the large scale nation state is over. That's my hypothesis. And I think we have to go right back to the idea of where does the need for the nation state come from? What what is the the the foremost purpose of that? Right? And, really, when it comes down to it, it's the protection of physical safety and property rights. Those are the very fundamental things that were first that that really when you look at it, like, what the state is is humans banding together to form a monopoly on violence to protect their resources.
Right? And that's the part that there will always be a place for because otherwise, someone else will steal your resources inevitably. There there is a need for, some rule of law. Right? And you you you do need a concentration of violence and a monopoly on violence in a given area to be able to enforce a rule of law. But I think what we're gonna end up in is a scenario with so many different small countries in the world where those countries will end up competing for the best the best users, the best citizens, the best customers. Mhmm. That's the way that they should be looking at us is as customers, as customers of services that they provide.
And right now, the bundle that they do, it's like you you got your bundle with your cable and you got, like, you know, you wanna get the sports channel, but, you know, you have to get these six other channels, and you don't want those six other channels. But right now, you know, we're at such a point. It's like we want the one channel, and we have a 50,000 other channels we have to pay for that we don't want. Yeah. And and and that's the position that we're in. We're in a place where the scope of the government is so far out of control Yeah. That it doesn't resemble anything like what the original purpose of the state would be. Exactly. I think we'll end up in a scenario where there there will be some countries, and I hope one of them will be here.
Colorado probably stands a good chance of being a a country like this where they compete by offering
[00:55:02] Unknown:
the cheapest prices for the best rule of law. Is it That's amazing. Are you for is it free and open cities? Are you familiar with that project? Yep. You know, is that kind of similar? It's been a while since it's, you know, couple of years, I think, since I listened to some of the podcast. But, you know, is that sort of philosophy there?
[00:55:21] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I haven't dug I'm only loosely familiar with that, but I I do think that we'll end up with a lot more governance at the city level and, like, the the regional level. Micro. Yeah. You know, if I if I think about, the further away that I go from home, the less I'm gonna identify with the people that I that I I see. Right? So, if I I'm in I'm in Calgary here. If I go to the rest of Alberta, I'm gonna find a lot in common with those people, but not necessarily even as much as I find with those here in Calgary. And if I go to Toronto, like, it feels like I'm in a different world, let alone a different country. Like, it's nothing like here at all. And our cultural values and our our way of life is so different that I don't think it makes sense for these large scale countries to to persist like this. And there's there's really no, there's really no benefit for us on this end of the country to being part of Canada. Like, our biggest benefit is the hockey team, to to be honest. Like, we we love having a good a good national hockey team, and everybody was very happy that, that Canada beat The US in that that recent tournament. But, like, that that's that's that only happens every, like, four years, and we don't we don't get enough out of the country to merit paying such a large percentage of our wealth to pay for the rest of the country, which is the situation in Canada. We're we're the oil rich province. We basically pay for the roads in Toronto and everywhere else, and, that it's just a bad deal. And I think, eventually, we're gonna be put in a situation where when citizens are forced into a bad deal, they have choices.
Right? They have the ability to move away from that bad deal, and we're just we're starting to see that. And that's why El Salvador is an an appealing place for many people is because they they really saw the bad deal and started saying, hey. We'll give you a better deal over here. And then in a lot of a lot of the the the ways that they offered the deal, you know, that originally was gonna be, you invest 3 Bitcoin and you can get citizenship, and then it became you had to pay the 3 Bitcoin to get citizenship. And, you know, the the the deal isn't quite as good as they said it would be, but it's they're they're still getting the the first bits of the idea right. But I think when a country's a country comes around and says, not only are we gonna be pro Bitcoin, and and I think there's room to take that a lot further than just saying, we'll buy some as a country. We'll mine some as a country. You know?
Legal tender, I think, is virtually meaningless. That's just that's the government forcing people to do something. I'm not in favor of that. Yeah. But if a government were to say, like and there's a window for this right now. If a government were to acquire as much Bitcoin as possible and then say, hey. We're dropping out of the IMF. We're not in this system of of of control anymore. And, we have this big stockpile of Bitcoin. We're gonna issue our own currency backed by this Bitcoin very much like the gold standard. And, not only that, but we're going to, run a government that aligns with the principles that most Bitcoiners would agree with. So we're gonna run a government that is very lean and provides a very minimal level of services. And as a result, you know, doesn't get in the way of our our citizens running their businesses, living their lives, and and really just provides those basic things that we actually need from the government and we actually need from whoever whoever it is that has that monopoly on violence. We need them to protect us, to protect our property, and, frankly, not much else. I I don't I don't see any other area in the world where any government at all is doing a good job of literally anything else, like, you know, health care, education, anywhere in the world, not even one. So
[00:58:57] Unknown:
I know. It it's definitely I I always ask people, I'm like, you know, what is the, the best vision or example that is alive right now of a government, you know, that you think is like functioning well, you know? A lot of times people come up with these socialist things like, well, everybody gets school and everybody gets this and they get the healthcare. And I'm like, yeah, you've got to wait for a year to get an appointment or a surgery or, you know, your health your education is a vanilla one size fits all things. So it has zero, ability to propel people way forward who are ready to go forward and capable versus people who are just like in the medium of the bell curve kind of thing, in the median. And so it's a tough one. I mean, managing giant groups of humans, I'm I don't wanna do that. You know?
[00:59:49] Unknown:
That would be no. Thanks. Well, that's a fundamental flaw in the concept of government, I think, too, is because most of the most competent people that I know would have absolutely no interest in being in charge of the government. No. It it sounds like a terrible job, to be honest. Yeah. And the only thing that could make it a good job is the way that the politicians use it now, which is the ability to steal a whole bunch of money. Yeah. Right? And so that that really is the main thing that drives people to politics is is just this lust for power and money. Yeah. And I think I think there's a there's kind of, like, this weird weird thing that, that some people have where they really just get off on that power. You know, they really want to be in charge. And I think that's why we that's why we see so many pedophiles among politicians as well is because it's the same kind of dimension. Right? It's dementia. It's it's people who get off on power who seek both of those things. You know, it's like I want to inflict my power on somebody who has less power than me. And that, to me, is, like, one of the most demented things in the world, whether it's children or taxes. It's it's fucking weird to want to control other people.
[01:00:52] Unknown:
Well, you know, and that looks you know, and thinking of, you know, Heather and other things, and I have I work with different people and do, you know, coaching and help them move forward with their lives and design their future. But, like, you're you're you're replaying the past, right? So if you had somebody, right, that had a power over you when you were a child or a teenager, or you witnessed that in your family, but most importantly, it happened to you, that just keeps trickling forward. And there's something in your spirit, your consciousness that wants to resolve that somehow. And a lot of ways people think that they resolve it is by putting it upon someone else. And so, you see that with like, you know, the guy who gets yelled at by his boss and he comes home and beats his wife up.
You see the kid who didn't get picked for a game when they were children, and then now they're being exclusive and telling everyone to fuck off. So there's all these different ways that if we don't understand our past, you know, as individuals, we're gonna be destined to repeat it somehow. And until you get that kind of resolution and clarity, it turns into this absolutely disgusting deformity, You know? And you think about, I don't know about you, but like remember the hall monitors and the kids who would make sure you had your hall pass to go pee when you're in third grade? Like, you know, they just wanted to have that power, you know, like in making sure, you know, that you had the right thing. And so, you know, I I'm gonna tell you a quick story, if you don't mind. I remember I was brutally terrorized and bullied when I was in sixth and seventh grade. And I lived in Arizona. There's lots of gangs there, you know, and this was back in the eighties.
And I was terrified to go into seventh grade because I got, you know, they were like toilet paper in my house and all egging my house. And I didn't even know what the fuck was going on and who these people were. And I show up in seventh grade and for almost a whole year, I'm getting, like just bullied by this group of girls, you know? And they're like, you can't go to the mall. We're gonna cut you and kill you. And I'm like, oh my God. I don't even know you. What did I do wrong? You know? And it was just like, I was just the easy target.
And I was just for the whole year, I was just in this state of terror, and I was scared to go do anything. And I moved around every two years, so I didn't have like some hardcore crew. And I just remember one day I saw this girl who was one of the terrorists as it were. And she was in the classroom and I was like, you know, get a hall pass, come out. You know? Because I was just like, I wanted to confront her finally. I wanted to confront the bully. So she gets the hall pass, she comes out, and, we go in the, you know, this end way of the hall so nobody could see us. And I was like, here I am, beat me up. You've been wanting to beat me up for, you know, these last two years, take your shot. And she was just like, fuck you, blah, blah, blah. You know, and I'm like 13 years old or 14 years old. And she was just like cursing me out. And I was just like, well, fuck you. You know, so I've started the fight and I start, you know, so we started punching each other and brawling. I finally got her down on the ground. I had her by the hair and I was like ready to just punch her in the face and knee her in the face too. And I'd already punched her and she's bloody all over her face. And I'm not proud of this, but I'm proud of the fact that I stood up for myself.
But I just looked at her because I was like, Uncle, you ready? You done? And she's like, Yeah. And I was like, All right, come on. Let's go in the bathroom and get you cleaned up. So I brought her into the bathroom to help her get cleaned up and she just started bawling and crying. And I was like, I don't even know you. Like, why are you picking on me? You know, what's wrong with what did I do to you? She was like, nothing. They made me do it. My stepdad, you know, beats me up and I'm just upset. And, you know, so it was like all this poor girl's trauma traumatized me, you know, and at such a young age. And so it was just this like exponentially multiply that by 8,000,000,000 people.
Right? And so it's like that's what's going on in our power structures out there is we've got so much unresolved trauma in the world. And then it gets hidden in their shame. And then it just oozes out the side into pedophilia or into all these other things that are disgusting. You know? And so it's like, until we can take an opportunity to look inside and look at what's really wrong, you know, that needs to be loved, I don't wanna say wrong, but has been wounded and needs to be healed, we're never gonna heal the systems. We're never gonna heal anything, You know? And so I think, you know, it's imperative, you know, to have radical self responsibility as a Bitcoiner and as somebody who wants to make the world a better place to, like, take time to look within. And it's like, how is your old how are your old wounds, you know, polluting your environment, you know, and how is it trickling out? And so, I don't know. I just had to go in that long hand.
[01:05:42] Unknown:
Yeah. I I I I'm with you, though. I think, and this kinda goes back to the conversation about the scams too. I think that the world, the way that it is now, has gotten so distorted because of the money printing as we always talk about. Right? Right. The the fact is that one of one of the core functions that money is supposed to perform is it's supposed to link your actions to the outcome for your life. Right? So the harder you work, the more resources you're supposed to have to spend on your life. And the fact is that that link has been profoundly broken because the money that we earn is is broken. Yeah. And so in in the world the way that it is today, there are just a lot of people dealing with a lot of hopelessness. There's a lot of people dealing with the fact that they don't think they can get out from under the debt, out from under the you know, they're they're in a a job that hasn't gotten that much of a raise in the last ten years, but their rent is triple what it was ten years ago. Yeah. And and that leads people in a bunch of directions that, are not healthy for them or anyone else.
One of them is that are are are those power games, you know, where people try to, exert power over others, but that also extends to both the scammers and the scammese. Yeah. So there's there's much more of incentive to become a scam artist in the world right now because it's a way that you can actually make some money as compared to, you know, the the rest of the world where the the ability to sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps, the proverbial American dream is is no longer as reachable for people really anywhere in the world, let alone America. Yeah. And then on the flip side, you know, something that we see both at Bitcoin well and and both Bitcoin is there's a lot of people who are victims of these scam artists who are pushed to Bitcoin. And they're they're pushed to Bitcoin because it's a it's a way for the scammers to get the money from them without, it being reversible or traceable. And, having talked to a bunch of these people, you know, we've we've we've prevented a whole lot of scams.
And a very common thing that comes up in there is the fact that, especially with older people, they feel like, you know, they've they've taken the path that was was presented to them as as living a a righteous life. You know, they've they went and they got a a university degree. They went and worked their whole lives. They they saved money. They had RSPs and pensions and savings. And they're like they're in these spots where they're like, oh, I got $300,000 saved up for retirement. And that even ten years ago would have seemed like a an an okay amount to have as a retirement. And nowadays, if you're 65 years old and you got $300,000, like, that's not gonna take you another twenty years. No.
And so it it it's gotten to this point where these people feel like they've gotta do something. Yeah. And that leads them to taking, you know, more and more insane risks with their money. Exactly. And, re really, it's just a it's one of the ways that because the world's so fucked, people are just not treating each other well as a whole across the the the world and the economy, and and that trickles down into everything from, that's that's that's why there's so much
[01:08:40] Unknown:
demented bullshit in the world right now. Totally. And I think about, like, I was on a spaces, I don't know, maybe a month ago, and it was a I almost have I never go on crypto spaces, but for whatever reason, I was like, I'm gonna go do some recon, you know, and see what's happening over here. You know? And like literally every, all the speakers were like the little Lego picture, you know, pixelated pictures. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna listen to these folks. And, you know, one of the guys is just like, oh, I'm a Bitcoin maxi, but I do crypto. I was like, Fuck. Okay. I'm gonna raise my hand.
So I go, they let me up, you know, and I was like, So let's I wanna learn, you know, like you guys like do this crypto stuff and you know that you're rug pulling people. And they're like, yeah. We're just doing it so we can buy Bitcoin because Bitcoin's better because I'm a Bitcoin maxi. And I was like, no. You're not. That's not how it works. You know? I'm like, there's no. And but they're just like, you don't know what it's like out here. We're we're hustling, and it's super hard. I'm like, dude, I'm from Detroit. I don't know what the fuck it's like. I live in my car, and I don't wanna hear about your bullshit. You know? And so it was just but there was no consciousness around that you're, you know, you're extracting value from other people. And so it was just this like, they didn't care. It was just like, how quick can I get some money so I can get some Bitcoin? And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, and I understand, I get everybody wants to get Bitcoin, but like, they were justifying, you know, the means to the end kind of thing. And, it was just, and, you know, they're all the it was young, you know, it was a young group of guys, probably, you know, all guys, maybe one girl. But, but they're just like, we're hustling out here and we can't get by and so this is helping us, you know, and I get it and that's why people turn to selling drugs. That's why, you know, some women turn to being, you know, strippers or only fans, you know, because it's just like, well, it's better than working at Starbucks, you know, and I get it, you know. And so it's like the this money is obviously so broken that they're, you know, they're hustling and they're just barely above water breathing, you know. And so, again, when somebody throws you a floatie and it's in the shape of a little monkey picture, you're like, okay.
[01:10:59] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:11:00] Unknown:
It sucks. And it's like, I feel for everybody and it's like, I don't want to keep perpetuating that cycle, you know, but I want to help younger people especially understand like there's different ways to save and get ahead, you know? But it's like, even if you think about little kids getting out of college, what are you gonna get, dollars 60,000 a year job? You can't pay rent here in almost any city plus groceries, plus insurance, plus food. Oh, I'd like to have a new pair of shoes because these ones have holes in it. Like you're not getting getting by on $60.80, a hundred grand anymore. Forget it. So it it's a tough one, man. It's like I really feel I don't know. Do you think everything has to completely disintegrate and collapse before we get a reset, or are we gonna be able to, you know, duct tape and MacGyver this thing together?
[01:11:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, there there there's bound to be, different levels of collapse in different places. Yeah. Back to the sovereign individual that predicted that Canada would be the first major nation state to break up. And I think the the likelihood of that is is very high. The whole trade war makes it more likely. We don't need like, we we in Alberta, especially, we have no interest in being in a trade war with The United States. We export a ton of oil to United States. We'd like to export even more oil to The United States. We'd like to have pipelines going there to export oil more safely and efficiently. And, you know, I I I think, we're gonna see countries break up, and we will probably see some places. Like, we've we've already seen some these, you know, short periods of hyperinflation and the sort of abject poverty that that leads to.
That's not done. We'll see more of that for sure in our lifetimes. That may come to our our countries as well at some point. But, yeah, I mean, the the the the phrase gradually then suddenly, you know, is is has been adopted by Bitcoiners for a reason because I think that's very likely how a a collapse in the Western world is likely to go. Yeah. You know, when the when the day comes, when the the dollar loses its final pieces of purchasing power, it'll probably be very much like the bank collapses that we've seen in the last year where they, you know, they they kick the can until Friday. Everything starts to go to shit in the afternoon on Friday, and then they're like, you know, everything falls apart over the weekend. And and by Monday, we have an entirely new structure Yeah. That, that we're we're told is the new the new thing.
These people in the political class, these people in power will will go to any links whatsoever to keep their slice of power. And so Of course. I think they're gonna kick the can down the road as far as they can. And, yeah, I mean, it it it's there's probably gonna be some messiness. The the currencies collapse, and I I do I do think that, even in the next five years, we're probably gonna see most of the currencies in the world collapse.
[01:14:07] Unknown:
Let me ask you this because I think this is you know, I was I forget who. Charles Eisenstein, he was talking about like nature based currencies and resource based currencies. And on the topic of cent How many more minutes you have got? I know we're over the hour. Like, how are you doing this time? No,
[01:14:24] Unknown:
I got lost time. Okay, cool.
[01:14:27] Unknown:
Because we've got two ideologies right now, right? We're looking at centralized things and decentralized things, right? And you were talking about having 5,000 countries, you know? We don't want 5,000 currencies, And that's different because and it's like Bitcoin is not centralized, but it's unified. It's one system, that's it operates in a decentralized nature. However, is this something that you see, like if we're working in a 5,000 country world, you know? Is it is it logical to think we're gonna be able to operate on a Bitcoin standard or is it something where it's like, well, we're gonna have the Bitcoin base layer and then each each of these 5,000 countries are gonna issue their, you know, whatever, Colorado token or something. You know? What do you think?
[01:15:18] Unknown:
I I think that countries will try to keep fiat alive as long as they can, and we'll probably see a wave of fiat currencies backed by Bitcoin,
[01:15:27] Unknown:
which is an in infinitely better idea than Well, hold on. Hold on. Fiat because fiat isn't backed by anything. Fiat is just by decree. So what do you mean? So
[01:15:37] Unknown:
so they would be the decree involved here would be them saying, we have this many Bitcoin, and we decree that we only have this many dollars, essentially. Right? And so, dollars backed by Bitcoin or whatever the new currency you'd wanna call them is Bitcoin bucks or whatever. Okay. So very much in the same way that, that fiat currency was once backed by gold, you know, on the gold standard, that it it it wasn't it wasn't actually gold. It was backed by the credit and faith of the US government. And I think we'll see that again. We'll see countries move to, to that kind of system, and then inevitably, some of those countries will abuse that.
And in a world where we have 5,000 countries, I don't think it's realistic for a large percentage of them to be competing for their own, fiat currency on top of Bitcoin. There there might be some usefulness where, some regional currencies might work like that. But in essence, what they'll all be competing with Bitcoin and with each other for is, like, you know, how how honest are they? If if a country were to issue a a a currency that was denominated in Satoshis and one to one backed, and we could trust them, that would be pretty close to as good as Bitcoin, but the reality is that we probably won't be able to trust them. And so even if it starts out as one to one backed, at some point, they will issue more of the currency than they have Bitcoin in order to spend it. And that's just been, you know, a a ubiquitous thing that we've seen in every monetary system in the world is that if anybody has the ability to make money for free, they will, and they'll spend it.
[01:17:16] Unknown:
But but if we look at I mean, if if if you think about, obviously, Bitcoin can be, you know, reduced to a Satoshi, why would anybody want anything else than a sat? Because I look at stable coins. I look at, you know, Tether and all this stuff, and I'm still trying to get my little brain around that. And I do understand it to some degree, but it's still just like, at some point, can we get on a Bitcoin standard? And anybody who would issue anything other than just sending Sats through Lightning or whatever the new technology is gonna be would seem like a scam.
[01:17:52] Unknown:
Yeah. And I mean, I I can I can definitely see that? If if the market was perfectly efficient, we'd already be on a Bitcoin standard. Right? And where, the potential future viability for those, like, kinda second layer FITs on top of Bitcoin comes from the fact that there is, like, a large incumbency bias to money. That's that's that's why the dollar still exists. That's why we still use, you know, something like the Canadian dollar has no reason to exist. So I think that there there will be some some competition in the world driven by that kind of inefficiency. And though there's realistically gonna be a lot of trade offs that, like, people don't necessarily understand the the differences between. So if you were to look at something like the liquid network where, you know, it's not a trustless system whatsoever.
It's a trust based system, but what you're trusting is a federation of unrelated parties. Right? And so that's much safer than trusting one exchange to hold your Bitcoin, but it's still a lot less safe than, than holding Bitcoin itself. But it's a lot easier. It's a lot more efficient to use something like that. Right? And so there will be some trade offs like that. And I think, ultimately, Bitcoin will outcompete all of them in the in the end. But, things like, different forms of federations that allow spending of money that's either denominated or backed by Bitcoin that, you know, distributes trust rather than forces us to trust a single party, especially the government Yeah. Would be would be a major improvement on our monetary system right now. And because of the fact that they are much more efficient than Bitcoin, we'll bring in some users and probably will will will survive for some time until, you know, the the same thing will eventually happen is you'll eventually end up in a in a fractional reserve in a scenario where, somebody is spending money that doesn't exist. And at that point, that's where the angle opens up for competition from the main chain in Bitcoin that obviously cannot be created from nothing.
[01:19:57] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. How how long do you predict that might take just for fun? I know nobody can throw the dice Oh, yeah. Predict that. But, like, how long do you what do you think?
[01:20:06] Unknown:
Well, it it's really hard to predict because you you know, there's so many moving pieces. I would say somewhere in the area of, like like, that ten to fifteen year range, I think, is probably where we're looking at for being in a world where our like, the currencies of the world don't look anything like they do now. You know, I think we'll be in a world with, like, five or six currencies. Bitcoin will be one of them. Could be others backed by Bitcoin. And and that transition will be a, you you know, a big messy process of the global forex scale. But, at the end of the day, you know, it it the the end result is that all of the people who maintain the current system and and will be the ones making the decisions to back currencies by Bitcoin and other things like that.
The end result is that all of those people, the political class, the moochers, and the leechers will be disintermediated and will only be useful and will only be continue to be able to make money off of the rest of the population if they provide a useful service to us, which they're obviously not doing right now. They are not doing. I know I can't wait to just see the the carve out of the waste and all the bullshit and see what actually is left.
[01:21:20] Unknown:
I know just seeing, again, I'm not either side political. I think they're all full of shit, but seeing the line items of the things where money is going here, then like, it's like transgender mice, what? You know, like it's just ridiculous. Every little thing. It's like, why is the government spending a cent on any of this stuff? This makes zero sense. Like let the free markets do what they want to go do. But I guess it's just Yeah. It's just you think about like, Oh, look, we have a clubhouse and this is my buddy Fred over here and he's got this thing. Let's give him a few bucks so he can do his And it just like gets out of control like a giant beast.
So, alright. Any last thoughts? Like, you wanna, tell everybody what's going on? Let's talk about the rodeo, dude. Like, Yeah. What can people expect of the Bitcoin rodeo?
[01:22:14] Unknown:
Yeah. The Rodeo is, is a really awesome conference we put on. We started it in 02/2018. Cool. We we put it on here in Calgary. It's very focused on how Bitcoin is useful to the real world. It's not a technical conference at all. We have a lot of panels, and we try to bring in a lot of the sort of freedom community that's, you know, when we're talking about who do we talk to and who do we who do we orange pill, that's the group. The people that have been awakened to this this tyranny of the the ever increasing scope of government. And and I think COVID was the single best thing in terms of waking people up.
And now we have this large group of people out there who essentially have realized that the government does not have their best interests in mind. Yeah. And, you know, they they know that, like, this shit's just not right, but they don't necessarily see the solution yet. And we obviously think we do see the solution with Bitcoin. And so I think those are the people that are very ripe to be talking to. So we're gonna be having a lot of discussions about, you know, similar to what we're talking about, the nature of the states, the nature of of government, and where does Bitcoin fit into the real world. And I I think we're gonna have some some spicy stuff there. And then, yeah, we've always got a big focus on comedy. We did the roast of BTC sessions last year. That was a big hit. Cool. We do we do the bad Twitter takes. Nico and Ben do, they basically take take all the all the worst ideas from Twitter from the last year and just talk shit about them.
And, yeah, you can see we'll we'll have more, more speakers announced here fairly soon and more coming up. And, yeah, if you wanna come out, we'd love to have you. There's a a couple things that would,
[01:23:51] Unknown:
would would fit pretty well. Awesome. Maybe we'll do a women's brunch too or something for the ladies in in the town. Women do love brunch. We do love our brunches. That's what we do. Yeah. It's fun. I love Natalie does her brunch, you know, the last couple years at, Miami Bitcoin or, you know, Bitcoin conference, whatever. And I've been helping her with that. And, it's just, it's a nice way because I mean, you know what the ratio is of men to women in Bitcoin and, she always does it on the first day. So it's kind of like, okay, you're going into this 20,000 person crowd and there's 200 of us. Awesome.
Yeah. You can at least high five each other on the way to the bathroom with no line for the ladies' bathroom and a big line for the men's bathroom, which never happens anywhere. So we always love to laugh about that. But yeah, it's fun, man. It takes all of us to get together to rock Bitcoin. I love it. But, yeah, we'll talk offline about, you know, me getting over there and seeing what's up and what you guys are doing, how I can support you. But, yeah, that'll be cool. So okay. So we've got everybody check out bullbitcoin.com. Check out bitcoinrodeo.com.
Bitcoinwell Com. Dude, you got a lot going on. And you can follow, Dave on x at Bitcoin brains. Any final words for the people out there who might be on the fence about learning about Bitcoin and something that they could, you know, feel a little bit more confident taking the first step?
[01:25:13] Unknown:
Well, like like I said earlier, the the narrative has shifted, from only putting money that you can't afford to lose to only put in money that you can't afford to lose. And the Yeah. Thing that I always say, that that sometimes takes people off guard when they're, you know, just on the outside kinda skeptical about Bitcoin is just that it's very risky not to own any Bitcoin. When you start to looking at it that way, you know, the risk that everyone the majority of people have taken by not owning Bitcoin over the last ten years has been catastrophic for them financially. Totally.
[01:25:48] Unknown:
Do you know any I think Swan had something up there. They had a calculator of, like, if you would have saved, you know, $10 in Bitcoin a day or a week, you would have had this much, you know, versus Yeah. Saving $10 in fiat for, you know, this much. So do you know any other calculators people could check out for that?
[01:26:06] Unknown:
I can't think of this, but there was a website. I don't know. I I'm assuming it's still out there where you could actually, like, look up a product, and it'd be like, okay. Well, if you bought a first generation iPod Yeah. Or whatever, that'd be earlier. If you bought, like, you know, an iPhone in 02/2011 Uh-huh. Instead of Bitcoin, what does that cost you? Yeah. Like, it cost you 20 Bitcoin then. Now it cost you 0.2 Bitcoin or this you know? So Well or or or, like, your your iPhone that you paid 20 Bitcoin for back then is now, like, you know, $2,000,000. So, though those for for Bitcoiners are are painful to look at Yeah. But, can be illuminating for people who have not thought about it that way. I love that. I wanna look that up. So it's just like a Bitcoin
[01:26:51] Unknown:
product compared price calculator or something. Yeah. It makes a difference because you're just like, oh, I shouldn't bought some Bitcoin. Right on. Alright, Dave Bradley. Thanks for taking all this time with you and having your cold, experience out there smoking your cigar. The strongest and best looking Bitcoin entrepreneur in Canada just came on my show. I'm so grateful. I can't wait to see you up in Canada. Are you gonna be in, Vegas?
[01:27:23] Unknown:
Probably. I I think I may do what I did last year, which is go down. I went to Nashville and just didn't go to the conference. Okay. Cool. I think the side events are the the key with the big the big ones like that, anyways. So Yeah. There's gonna be Very very likely. Yeah. We're gonna be doing,
[01:27:39] Unknown:
a Toonster and Nostred, Boostagram Ball on Wednesday night there. Pubkey, Mike Germano are doing something there. I'm gonna probably help them out at some point. But on Tuesday night, I'm probably DJing at Zouk, which will be interesting. So that's like a whenever some super club. I'm like, alright. Stick me in there. Stick the geezer DJ in there. Let's go. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. I'm super excited. And, well, cool. Well, hopefully, I'll see you there, but I'll talk to you before then. And, yeah. Thanks everybody. And thank you all for tuning in. I hope you guys have the best day ever. And, happy thankful Thursday. Alright. Aloha.
Introduction to Dave Bradley
The Meat Enthusiast
Bitcoin Beginnings
Bitcoin Rodeo and Events
Recycling Realities
Plastic and Environmental Concerns
Bitcoin as a Solution
Bull Bitcoin's Origin
Custody and Security in Bitcoin
Bitcoin's Impact on Personal Finance
Government and Bitcoin
Future of Governance
Personal Responsibility and Healing
Economic Collapse and Bitcoin
Future of Currency
Bitcoin Rodeo Event Overview
