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Should women Vote?
Should women run for office?
Should women be allowed to participate in governance?

https://alivethrive.life/

Deliberating Dogface Dudes #5 ~ Should Women Be Allowed To Vote And Run For Office?

A Heated Debate on Gender and Politics
The Role of Women in Politics: A Spirited Discussion
Gender and Voting Rights: Deliberating Dog Face Dudes Debate
Women in Governance: A Controversial Debate
Exploring Women's Voting Rights: Perspectives and Arguments

- allen marcus

- Benjamin Balderson

- John Roeland

- Leslie Powers

https://serve.podhome.fm/deliberatingdogfacedudes

https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/deliberatingdogfacedudes/5

(00:00:03) Introduction and New Intro Music

(00:01:21) Welcome and Guest Introduction

(00:02:20) Debate Topic Introduction: Should Women Vote and Serve in Politics?

(00:03:53) Pro Team Opening Statements

(00:13:02) Against Team Opening Statements

(00:25:06) Debate on Women’s Role in Governance

(00:46:43) Discussion on Historical Context and Meritocracy

(01:00:57) Arguments on Government Efficiency and Gender Roles

(01:19:03) Debate on Emotional Decision Making and Policy

(01:50:02) Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

(02:13:33) Discussion on Abortion and Emotional Manipulation

(02:25:00) Moderator Intervention and Final Arguments

(02:46:00) Closing Remarks and Reflections

Welcome back to Deliberating Dog Face Dudes! This week, we had the joy of hosting our very first guest, Leslie Powers, from 'Dissolving the Divide' and part of the One Great Network. 

The topic of discussion was a spicy one: Should women be allowed to vote and serve in politics? This debate brought diverse perspectives, moving beyond the typical Republican-Democrat paradigm.

John Rowland and Leslie Powers argue that women bring valuable perspectives and should be included in the voting process. They emphasized the importance of women's voices in decision-making and highlighted historical and current contributions of women in various fields.

On the other side, Allen Marcus and Benjamin Balderson argued against women voting and serving in politics, citing reasons such as emotional decision-making and the need for a more merit-based system. We discussed the historical context of voting rights and the potential impact of removing women from the voting process.

The debate was intense, with both sides presenting strong arguments and challenging each other's views. We also touched on broader issues like the current state of governance, the role of emotions in decision-making, and the potential for societal collapse.

Overall, it was a thought-provoking discussion that highlighted the complexities of the topic and the need for deeper understanding and dialogue. Thank you, Leslie, for joining us and sharing your insights. We look forward to more engaging debates in the future.

[00:00:03] Unknown:

You win.   9,   8,   7,  

[00:00:45] Unknown:

8,   5,  

[00:00:47] Unknown:

4, 3, 2, 1, fight.  

[00:01:07] Unknown:

You're muted.  

[00:01:10] Unknown:

Aren't we getting fancy with the new intro from Alan Marcus? That's nice. That's nice. Play it again?  

[00:01:17] allen marcus:

Yeah. That's good. Sweet.  

[00:01:19] Unknown:

That's good stuff.   Welcome back to   deliberating dogface dudes.   This week, we have the   joy of having, our very first guest, Leslie Powers.   You can find   Leslie Powers   on   let me   make sure I get   the name right.   Dissolving the divide,   and   she is part of the one great network.   Welcome, Leslie.  

[00:01:56] Leslie Powers:

Thank thank you for having me here. You betcha.  

[00:02:01] Unknown:

Yeah. I've been I've been on, her show, and she's been on, weaving spiders with Marcus and I. Sallen   and John Rowland. This week, they picked a spicy one this week. The guys decided this on this one this week. I said,   all right.   So we're gonna   go with, should women   be allowed to vote   and to serve in politics.   And,   given   the more diversity   of this group as opposed to where,   a lot of times when you see this debate,   the both sides in it fit   fit specifically inside   the republican democrat paradigm that we currently have, where there is opinions on the panel,   where that that entire system doesn't work   out.  

So,   that's gonna be included. But then with that, it's how do women fit inside that paradigm. Because even in that paradigm, there's gonna be   some system of governance   even if you wanna call it anarchy. Well, then then everybody's doing what they want. So, I mean, every system has a,   how do females fit into it. So no matter what it's gonna be,   they're gonna   that's gonna be the topic of discussion here.   And with that, the pro team is gonna start. John and Leslie are gonna take the pro,   and Marcus   and I are gonna take the against.   We're all both   all kind of personally aligning with what we're on.  

So we're not being fully academic, just straight academic about it.   But,   we'll give the floor to these 2.  

[00:03:53] Unknown:

Alright.   I'm John Rowland. You could find me at the Nas.   Also, find me at Natural Freedom League.   The this the topic today, should women be allowed to vote and run for office?   So,   from the perspective   of a democratic society   like we allegedly   have.   This society was based on the principles of,   the freedom of   life,   liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.   And people have also pointed out that that word happiness was originally   property.   So   did this   mean all people and extend to all people, male, female,   different ethnicities.   I would argue   that ultimately,   ideally, it does.  

And I do agree. I do think that women should be allowed to vote in such a system.   My reasons for believing this, 1,   women are protectors.   So women are going   to promote   ideas   that protect   their families,   their children.   And,   the other reason why women   should be involved   in this endeavor is that women tend to speak out a lot more.   Women organize.   I,   was involved in the health freedom movement starting in about 2015   in California,   and the grassroots   movement of that was led by women, and in the beginning, typically liberal women.   And   as I attended these,   events and rallies,   I often wondered where all the men were,   and why the men weren't more involved.  

Women have a lot to offer. It's not exactly what men have to offer,   but they have valid perspectives and these are things that we should be   integrating into society,   not excluding.   The solution to the pendulum swing   that happens in this system   is not to swing back hard to the other pole.   It's   to compromise and find a solution   in the middle.   And,   so that is why I support   women   voting and running for office   in   this system that we currently have. And I'm gonna pass it to Leslie, and she can cover   anything I missed.  

[00:06:49] Leslie Powers:

Alright. So let's see. I think I'm gonna start with just the verbiage of the question.   Should women   be allowed to vote? So the phrase be allowed implies that there's some authority   that is above   women   to   decide   whether they have the right to participate or be a part of a process of decision making.   So that terminology   right from the get go is a bit   concerning to me because   when I consider human rights,   the we all have   the same rights.   And what we don't have a right to do is to initiate harm onto others   or to violate another person's   voluntary   action,   you know, in society or in their own lives.  

So   so there's a question mark there.   Like, who gets to decide who's allowed to participate   in decisions that affect everyone?   Because   any decisions that are made in a society are going to   be   affecting.   They're gonna have consequences   on all the people in the society.   The other thing that I wanna highlight is just the meaning and the etymology of the word vote.   Because I think of we could think of vote, like, when we talk about voting in our country, everybody thinks of going to   the polls   and voting in this formal process   of a system that's pre   determined, so to in in many ways. Okay?  

But I wanna just expand the word vote to what what I think its true true intended meaning is,   which is about   a formal indication of a choice.   Okay.   A court, of a of a could be a candidate. It could be   a a solution. It could be a course of action,   and it could be expressed through a ballot,   a vote in a box, or a show of hands, or a voice.   So   the word vote   comes from Latin, vover, to vow,   or   Latin, votum, a vow, a wish.   So there's something here sacred about the vote as being a vow   of some sort, something that is a wish, a desire, an intention,   something sacred, something important.  

And this vote could happen in the   in as much as being heard, being a right to speak.   Right?   So my being present here with these dog faced dudes is is an opportunity   in some ways to vote, to   share my voice,   my voice, my opinion. So a vote is a voice.   And I think that anyone who's given the sacred opportunity   to,   vote or make a vow towards an outcome that's going to impact other people has great responsibility.   And I think that there's different ways that a society could set that up,   and that's something we could talk about.   But I would say that the perspective   of women   most definitely   needs to be   a part of the voice   that's being considered in any decision making process   or any voting.  

So I'll stop there for now.   And I guess I'll add a couple more things. I'm gonna say, you know, if we're gonna look at the reality in our   world right now,   it's hard to   actually conceive of women not   participating   in the decision making process. Now I am not,   a supporter of our voting system in this country. I actually think no one should participate in it,   and that that is a greater vote of of not, you know, not participating in decision making in this existing structure, but to make a vote through our action to an alternative   way of finding a better life for all of us.  

But I would say let's think about   that women   right now are   in all walks of life, in all,   professions,   have   great knowledge,   great intellects, and there's no substantial   decrease in in intellectual ability or an ability to think big picture,   you know, or have the capacity   to to control or manage their emotions,   you know, that there's I would really need a greatly   well thought out,   reason why   we wouldn't   include women   in that process.   So it seems to me the onus is on your side, you guys, Alderson and Marcus, to really explain why   women shouldn't   be a part of it and to explore the motivation and the and potential biases there.  

And   and then also just to recognize that, like, about 50%   of   you know, I don't know. Actually, I had a percentage here, but there's a large percentage of,   homes are run by single women,   single mothers. A very large amount of of property is owned by women.   Right?   So the interests are equal   for both men and women.   So I'll I'll stop there for real.  

[00:13:03] allen marcus:

So then to counter the argument   to say   the position is   women should not be allowed to vote and women should not be running for office.   Alderson, do you have your counter to the argument just made?  

[00:13:18] Unknown:

No. You you go ahead and start 1st. I'll,  

[00:13:21] Benjamin Balderson:

I'll pick up the  

[00:13:23] allen marcus:

Alright. I'll begin with   what John was stating about this idea that women are protectors. I would state that men and women are equally protective of their children,   and that in general, men and women are protective of their own self interests.   So when we're talking about   governance   and the ideas of creating   laws for society to live by, including   the   criminal component and the,   law and order aspect to say, if we have placed these governing laws in place, then we have a court system to   determine through a fair trial if the law has been broken or not, and then using some sort of   force to then enforce these laws.  

So with that said,   men and women are equally protective   of themselves,   their offspring,   their family,   their loved ones, their friends.   The government representing the best interest of all people, of all genders, men and women equally,   is the goal   of the government.   So then we get to the next point Leslie makes about the definition of the word vote and what a vote is   today in America,   US of A, having polling stations to vote.   And we often wonder if   that   vote that happens to primaries and other elections   happens to be, in actual fact, more of a opinion poll.   So where it may appear as   the vote is deciding on the actions   of the leaders,   it seems that in function, in actual   use case,   the   voting that happens   by a ballot through the primaries in elections for,   local governments, so school board to   sheriff   to   governor of the state. There's different levels of voting as well. But in general, it seems that   the feeling is the selection process   is not determined by the election process,   and the casting of ballot seems to be symbolic   of a participation   in a system of governance that we find ourselves in at this time.  



[00:15:57] Unknown:

Is that it for you, Marcus?  

[00:15:59] allen marcus:

Those are addressing the points that were made. Well, it was the opening statement. So,  

[00:16:05] Unknown:

you know, it'd be best if you, you know, just,   also anything that you wanna add and how things are gonna function   and what you wanna see as a, oh, look at that gorgeous woman.  

[00:16:17] allen marcus:

Sure. They,   in a world view. Sure. So in looking at this argument   of whether or not women should be allowed to vote and run for office, I would go towards the definition of a successful   governance.   So under a successful governance,   we would have a rule of law.   We would have transparency and openness and the accountability of government.   We would have participation   involved with all of the citizens in the political process, and then the government would be responsive to the needs   of the government. So that would sort of be   what we would expect to see in a successful   country's governance.  

We're not necessarily   arguing in favor or against,   whether it's a democratic republic   or a socialist communist   commune, whatever. We're just talking in general governance.  

[00:17:21] Unknown:

So   the first thing that I I wanna address   when I'm speak when I'm speaking on this   is there's baked into,   the conversation   that,   where women can't for the side that takes, that women can't vote,   that women don't have a voice,   and that's patently untrue.   In a even in a situation where they don't vote such as they had before they voted,   women,   had their own voice.   And actually their voice was quite a bit stronger,   because they were functioning inside of it more inside of a system   that they wanted. This is part of why,   that and that they're made for. This is part of why the women's anti suffrage movement was much larger for the women's than the women's suffrage movement.  

Most women didn't want to vote to the extent where they had to exclude women from the vote of women getting to vote.   So that way, they could pass it,   which obviously there's,   along with that came women in the workplace,   things like that.   So there's the entire,   rabbit hole of   just   corporatists   wanting another set of income coming in and that being the entire motive behind it.   So   with that said, and again,   myself personally,   I don't   believe   in democracy   in any way, shape, or form.   I do believe in a system closer to what we started out in, which was a republic.   And in that,   only landowners were allowed to vote.  

And,   I as a tribalist, that's the way the heathen system was, and I believe they probably borrowed that from the Germanic heathen system   where just the landowner was allowed to vote.   And in that, in a traditional system, women are not allowed to vote.   And again, it's not that they're not allowed a voice,   but there there's numerous reasons that they can't. Number 1,   heavy component   in in the voting,   which we, to some extent, ignore today because we've never had war on our con on our soil in anybody's living memory,   is that the   where things stand in defense and war   is a major component   in,   that voting process.  

And you take tribal society,   like,   if they were gonna go out trading,   raiding,   things like that, where are we gonna go? It's the men who are gonna participate in that kind of thing.   And   so   given that they're not the ones that are participating,   they're obviously not gonna get a vote. Even in today's society,   we have this imbalance   where in order for men to get a voice, we have to sign up for the selective service. So this means that we have to actually put our lives on the line and we have to enforce the things   that we want. Women are given this free pass   where they don't. Now should women serve in the military?  

Absolutely not.   With the caveat of the positions that have classically given,   that women have classically been taken like nurse and things like that. Should they be in combat positions?   Absolutely not.   Can also be part of the discussion, but that one should be a real no brainer for anybody.   Nobody   wants to   go come home with PTSD of watching all their battle buddies getting blown up. How much worse is that as your battle buddy woman is getting raped to shit, and you've gotta come home and somehow deal with that?   Nobody wants that kind of mental thing going on. So given that caveat, especially   that they somehow get precluded from that, a a duty. And that and that's what we gotta talk about where Leslie wanted to talk about what is a vote. I wanna talk about what is a right.  

A right is a duty   absent,   obligation.   And in this scenario,   voting is not a right for men because we have an obligation in order to to meet that. Women do not.   And in today's very feminized society,   that's an imbalance   that where women get to make a decision, but don't have to pay the consequence for it. And that's a real problem. And it's something that we're we see over and over and over again in society.   And   at the end of   it, women don't   have enough structural understanding of how things run. And they think that they do. I understand that there's this belief that in today's society   that   they are able to function on somewhat equal level of a man and in an office that is absolutely true. And in in this society where we think office jobs are are glamorous,   that has some validity.  

The problem is, is that office job, there was   a job with 99%   men that built the road to get to that job. It was 99%   men that ran the plumbing to opt to   make the building have indoor plumbing.   It was 99%   men that did the electrical.   It was 99%   men that did the carpentry. It was 99%   men. Everything about how this place actually runs and operates, all the dirty secrets that people actually know what's going on,   that   that is   men.   And what we have in women management system systems even is typically a micromanager.   Somebody who actually can't accomplish the job in any way, shape or form, but is there telling other people how to do their job and usually not well.  

And this has become again a trend in almost every way in the country. And what we see   as a as a whole in society is,   a less and less skilled society.   And where the middle management has absolutely ran   every decent country into the or company into the ground.   And in every way,   this   has not panned out. I understand in today's world,   it's hard to imagine   not having this feminine presence,   but   it absolutely   in some way needs to now start being dialed back and they need to be removed   from these systems   and things do need to be brought back into balance like John said because   they're playing in a playground that's that, not theirs, and not suffering any consequences for it.  



[00:24:43] Unknown:

Okay.   So   I,   I think that ultimately   the problem with saying that women should not be allowed to vote, should not be allowed to participate in government,   is that   there is an inherent flaw deeper   than   women voting in the system. There is a problem in the system.   Is making women not allowed to participate in it going to solve that problem? No.   We started out as a republic, a republic run by   rich landowners.   They turned it into a democracy.   They   manipulated   men to vote for women,   to get women involved. This is the   this is the idea we're running.  

Men   did this.   Men created this.   So to think that now we're going to,   resist or turn back with the whoever those men are   by somehow   participating in that system that they created,   and they use psyops and   psychological   warfare on us to get the ends that they want, which I would say   the best guess is it's to keep power   and to increase power.   Just like when you run any corporation,   the people at the top are not voting for the best interest of all people   at all. And in most cases,   those are men. Those men will fire   everybody if they have to to get themselves a bonus. And that's what we see in society today.  

Show me a male politician   who is so much better than female politicians.   It's it just doesn't   it doesn't exist. I mean, if we're we're saying that,   and then and then the argument of the war, it's like,   it that's a that's a psyop too.   The psyop that it's always war. There's always war. So and, again, like, they're they are,   like   are I mean, are are we blaming women for the fact that we're at war every   year,   like, forever?   I mean, I I think that to think that   women voting is the cause of those problems   is just completely misguided,   in my opinion, and is not at all getting to the root of the problem.  



[00:27:18] Unknown:

Are you super straw manning there? Because in no way did I say that.   Did you say what?   That women were the cause of the war.   You're saying that women you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to vote for war, so they're not paying the penalty. I was real clear about it that they're not having to participate   in something   that was heavily poured a portion of the vote.   So why would they   then vote in it if they don't have to then go participate in it? If if it it doesn't even matter if it's war at that point. And if we're gonna go guilt build a barn and I'm like, well, how are we gonna build it? And it's me, Ted, and Fred.   And then John comes along and should John get a vote in how the barn's built if John's not working on it?  



[00:28:04] Unknown:

That's not the government we have.  

[00:28:06] Benjamin Balderson:

That's not the government we have. We're arguing about the system we have now. That that was arguing about you're arguing about straw man in what I said. About women voting. You got it. You guys, it's your it's your  

[00:28:19] Unknown:

but if you're if you're representing what I said, you have to represent what I said.  

[00:28:24] Unknown:

I I am representing what you said. I said that they shouldn't be In terms of this conversation   in terms of this conversation,   that's the implication that women shouldn't be able to vote because they are sending  

[00:28:37] Unknown:

men to war.   They don't get to vote in it.   I was real clear.   In no way did I say it's their fault we're going to war.  

[00:28:46] Unknown:

Okay.   But okay. It's but that them not voting   is going to prevent that?  

[00:28:54] Unknown:

I made no I made no case whether that was gonna prevent or cause war.   I said they don't participate   in the and I reexplained that with the barn thing.   So is that so Right. But we're not I understand. If you're not if you're not participating   in the work,   you don't get to vote in what's being done.  

[00:29:16] Unknown:

So what about the stuff they do participate in? What about education?   What about the economy? They don't have what they say. Participates in that.   Everybody participates in that. So are they allowed to vote on those things?  

[00:29:30] Unknown:

There that and those things, that's more of hold thing that in in in that system, it it Economy? If we're talking about I'm not going back and forth yet, John. I'm just trying to to make a point that you don't straw man. You gotta you gotta actually go against what was said. So I understand I'm going against what was said. That meant you said that I think that I answered the question.   That that women were causing the war. And that's that's not in any way what was said.   And go ahead, Leslie.  

[00:30:06] Leslie Powers:

The the war thing is is a little seems to me   a bit of a tangent because I don't think that   men even really get to vote us into war. I don't think as citizens,   we,   as the people, really get to decide that we, send our troops to Israel,   you know, to to bomb people.   You know what I mean? I think but but I think, like, I'm following  

[00:30:32] Unknown:

vote for the candidate that's, pro war or pro not or not war? Voting  

[00:30:38] Leslie Powers:

through history,  

[00:30:40] Unknown:

every candidate has ended up bringing our Do we not even have specific candidates that come out as anti war candidates and actually that is their presentation?  

[00:30:49] Leslie Powers:

Well, Obama was. Did that work out? And and No. Yeah. But what but was that his position?  

[00:30:56] Unknown:

So that's obviously,   that's obviously a position  

[00:31:00] Leslie Powers:

of Sure. I understand you. I understand what you're saying more clearly. That was helpful.   So   so whether yes. So there's going to be if we're talking about the political process and we're talking about campaigning,   there are gonna be key button   issues,   right,   that they're going to put out on the table that they're going to try to grab   the cons you know, the people who are gonna care about that thing. Right? So I think what you're saying is that women as a full   would be anti war and would lean towards voting for a politician that's anti war or something,   and that that would no?  

No?  

[00:31:41] Unknown:

No. I I'm not I'm not sure how this isn't getting across.   If you don't have to suffer the consequences   for the choice, you don't get to put in a vote.  

[00:31:53] Leslie Powers:

Right. I understand that.  

[00:31:55] Unknown:

What that And and and and so Whether there's gonna be a war or not isn't necessarily,   even determined. So, again, some of it's defense. A lot of times, war gets brought to you. Maybe you aren't intending on going to war. Again From your perspective,  

[00:32:11] Unknown:

only soldiers should vote for war.  

[00:32:15] Unknown:

There can definitely be a case that if you didn't serve, and I would honestly be on that a 100%, that if you didn't serve for the country,   that, no, you shouldn't get a vote either.  

[00:32:26] Unknown:

Then again, that goes deeper than women.  

[00:32:28] Unknown:

And then what are those men who participate I I agree. I said that at the beginning. I've been hoping they participate in the war. The guys that participate in the   war don't participate in education. So they can't vote on that? Like How is that? It doesn't make any sense. Alright. Do you think they're gone the entirety of any time that a child's life is is   is going on. And if the society is that horribly warlike that the   war is going on their entire childhood,   you don't think that war would be part of their education?   Like, they're somehow gonna step into a society that's nothing but war and not be educated in that somehow? But if the soldiers are suffering  

[00:33:09] Leslie Powers:

Let me add a female perspective on the piece about self defense   and bearing arms and being skilled.   So   while I,   have no interest   in going to war or or fighting,   you know, in a war,   I do have an interest in learning to defend myself,   and I have an interest in being able   to step up into   a battle or a,   a situation if it comes to me, and that the whole society is better   if off if all, you know, people capable of of defending themselves and defending the children and the weak and   and and disabled. It's will be better. Right? So women, yes, should be learning self defense,   but   that is a very different thing than going off into war. Now is in our current world right now, women are going out into battle. You know, they are going. So if in the current situation that from your logic, that would give them a right to vote on that.  

And I think when it comes to, like, selective service, I mean, that's   one could say,   I mean, you know, is that ethical? Is that moral?   You know, that's another topic. But but I think more at the root of things is   who's qualified   to to vote? Like, what does it mean?   Because a lot of times in today's society, people are just they're not understanding the issues they're even voting on.   You're right. You know? That that they don't have the skill sets. They don't have the experience. They don't have the nuanced understanding, they don't even understand the words sometimes in the ballot, in the in the writing,   and many people don't read it. Or if they do read it, they're seeing it from a very narrow perspective. They don't have the big picture.  

Right? So there's lots of ways that people's votes are very random.   They may be, very party aligned   and only just go and check up all the blue boxes or check up all the red boxes. Right? That's very common.   And and so to me, that's a very reckless   type of of voting in general.   Now if to me, it shouldn't matter if it's a man or a woman if if if that individual,   that human, that adult has the mental capacity and the,   the care, the sincere care to   to understand   what is going on and what their vote means that that that what would eliminate   that   as an option?  

Why would you stop   that would be my question.   And I think it would be the same,   like,   if you're gonna vote   if you're gonna vote or elect someone to be, like, a representative,   okay, then that's a deep level of trust that you're taking on, that you need to have a trust   and a knowledge of that person.   Right? And that person needs to be accountable.   And so how does a person build trust?   And if, let's say,   in a society where women are are holding back their   that, idea of voting and and   allowing   their spouse   to rep you know, to go and do a vote if somehow it's like for a household or whatever,   then that would require a deep level of trust just between that woman and man.  

That to trust that that man has the care,   the the that has taken the time to really understand   the perspectives   that a woman would have in her   role and position,   you know, because   we're we all have different,   perspectives.   And I'm not claiming, and I would never claim that a woman is the same as a man or vice versa   or should be considered such. I think we are   the feminine and masculine have, you you know, unique strengths and weaknesses,   and that the actual   strength,   true power comes in the unity   of the masculine and feminine,   both within our own brains, our own mind,   and between us, both in the unit of, you know,   partnership between individuals   and then in the larger, you know,   unit of of,   society   of of   of brethren, you know, however you wanna call it, of   a familial and extended, you know,   community.  

So what is it that creates trust? Well, there's   that takes work   and that requires a deep dialogue and a and a, and a repair   of the traumas that have been inflicted on humankind on both men and women   over the eons,   mostly from governments,   you know, in great part, you know, from   from the   tyranny   and the wars and and so forth that have been,   just creating   ravage among   families and tearing families apart and   bringing back effects of trauma. Right? So all of this is very   real   when it comes to anyone who's going to be   voting or in a position of power   that this,   sensitivity and awareness be acknowledged   and that there be work to there's work to do,   I guess, I wanna say.  



[00:38:53] allen marcus:

Sure. May  

[00:38:55] Leslie Powers:

I speak?  

[00:38:56] allen marcus:

So this issue of building   trust in communities,   this applies to trust   in government. I think trust is also   on equal footing to what we may call confidence, to have confidence that my vote   matters, that my vote does something.   I wanna bring up the fact that   women in the United States of America under the constitution   were not allowed to vote until the 19th amendment.   So then the question of who is eligible   to vote   in US elections, these are in federal elections.   So I can say who's not eligible to vote, which is a simpler way of,   describing who can vote. So who cannot vote,   noncitizens   cannot vote,   felons cannot vote, minors,   the cannot vote. So the legal voting age is   18.  

We might go into the topic of   should that age be lowered   or raised? That's a side tangent.   The 4th category that cannot vote in federal elections in the United States are mentally incompetent individuals.   So if an individual has been deemed mentally incompetent   by a court,   they are   not eligible to vote. And then certain states have   nonresidents   who cannot vote.   So there are certain   laws in place to say that you must be   a permanent resident, not a temporary resident. So students attending college or military personnel on different bases who are not in their home state cannot participate in those elections where they are currently residing if it's not their home state. So those are the people that are not eligible to vote. Now in arguing   that   we should expand that definition to say   women should be included in the category of not   eligible   to vote,   that's what we're arguing.  



[00:40:57] Unknown:

So   agreed that there are the occasional woman   that,   slips in and serves in combat. It's an extraordinarily rare thing,   and   you need to stop.   Stop.   It's an extraordinarily rare thing.   But,   you you need to get good Internet,   Bill. That's what you need.   And we will have you on, brother.   But, in general, that's not gonna be the case.   And here's the here's the thing what they've turned democracy into in general,   and is that they have,   turned it into opinions   where when it was a republic of land owners,   it was   educated,   skillful people that knew how to run their land.  

John kinda represents their,   with his with his story   that,   it and it is the mainstream   narrative currently, which is extraordinarily   liberal.   Unfortunately, the the people who I would say were the primary drivers   for the destruction of this, really excellent system,   also happen to own all the media   and   also   the education systems.   So that it it's a very forgivable thing. But the fact is is,   when this country started, in order for you to be a landowner, you had to be able to run your own place. And who are you paying for land? You went over and you got your own piece of land. That one's mine. And if you had enough gumption and foresight to understand how to do things, this is the general idea of animal farm. Where that guy where whether you liked it or not, whether sometimes he seemed strict, whether things like that, he knew how to run the system.   And he made sure everything had enough food put away. He made sure everything was run correctly,   and he had the skill set in the, to do so. And,   just like animal farm, we see what happened when they removed that guy as the head of the system.  

And so the first step was allowing all men, including the ones who absolutely are not worth you need to stop. I need to read this.   The first step was yeah. Cat is just being a shit.   The first step is is removing the competent men out of the situation,   which was one of the first steps to the entire downfall to this sit this system was taking and demonizing competent men and taking away the understanding,   the between competence   and somebody that is just authoritative   and not in any way deserving of that authority.   And so that demonization   of that was the first thing, and then giving equality   to every dipshit in the in the country. So in no way, shape, or form should the guy,   even in a a home, like, say, a farm that I run where I have people that stay with me, Well, the people that haven't figured out how to run a farm, should they get a vote   in how the overall see overseeing of the farm, which is gonna be beneficial?  

Do I want, unlike the story that John proposed,   these gentlemen that are living on my farm to start living really shitty   and me to be up here?   Well, not many guys are gonna stay on my farm then. And nobody was forcing people to stay on farms then at that point either. When they say, when there was a system   that was a taxation, the original taxation system was giving 10%   of your of your crop to the land holder. And then the land holder   with that 10%   also was obligated to give back your seed planting. So that's why you gave your best 10%.   So next year, your best seeds are the ones that are growing again and again.  

Now finally, for my point before I hand it back over to John,   is   even when it's not just   war,   there's an enforcement of will period, and that comes with voting.   And so with the the way the voting system we have now,   again, where people aren't having to take accountability for anything, what we have is is no different than people that call the cops on their neighbors to get them in trouble and hurt them, and then act like they are somehow above it because they didn't actually do it, but then also got what they wanted.   And so the entire system   absolutely is flawed. I'm not representing that the system   that we have now isn't,   as a fact.  

But again,   when we go back to the original republic,   we had very responsible men   who oversaw and caretook   that were allowed to have decisions in the general community that they wanted to see grow.   Those people   definitely should be allowed to vote. The people who can't get their shit together,   the guys who are down here drunk, the way our current system is now, that fucking meth head down there swinging an axe at traffic   that's wearing a fucking leather jacket in a 110 degrees,   his vote equal to mine.   And that's absolute insanity.  

[00:46:37] Unknown:

I think this is pointing again to the difficult part of this discussion   because   if we are presupposing   that this system is redeemable   and that   the solution to that is not allowing women to vote,   it doesn't make any sense to me. We're not saying that. You're saying we should go back to a different system,   which led to what we have now,   by the way.   But, so I don't know how that's the solution.   But,   you know, in talking about Animal Farm, well, the man running the farm, that's not a republic.   That's a dictatorship.   So   I'm I I guess it just makes it difficult,   a difficult discussion. One thing I wanted to point out, someone in the chat, I posted it, said, how does women voting make the system   better?  

And I would ask,   how does women voting make the system   worse?   Like, look at what we have.   It's all shit.   So if we're implying that women voting   is the cause of that   or that somehow not allowing them to vote would be the solution,   then   I guess we're talking about 2 different things. We're we're talking about   the system we have now, women shouldn't vote. Okay. What would that improve?   Nothing. It wouldn't solve the problem that we have.   And,   man,   it's hard to, like, you know, keep up   in terms of it it kind of is spiraling a bit.   And,   I would say, Ben, you need to have more patience and wait to call out my logical fallacy when it's your turn. But it's okay, because we're getting better at this.  

And, and I'm I'm okay with yelling at each other too, you know.   So I guess it depends on what kind of society you want.   Right?   So if you want a democracy   where everybody has a voice   and everybody has the right to pursue freedom, then   then   you allow everybody to have a voice.   And,   I was gonna make another point, but I'm just gonna, I'm gonna let it sit for a minute. But, yeah, I just   my biggest problem with this question   is, to me, it's implying that not allowing women to vote   would somehow improve things.   And I just don't see that as being true.  

[00:49:21] Unknown:

Well,   the real easy thing about that is is,   that we've seen since women voted,   shift in the   you need to stop.   A shit I'm gonna go lock you outside. A shift in the,   what is being voted on.   Now because and   as William said,   we actually do have more women voters,   in the country at this point,   than we do have men,   for sure.   Although I would absolutely also posit that,   despite the bullshit that the media and the politicians tried spinning last year, The apathy toward politics in any way, shape, or form in our country has grown to such,   extremes that   just the election before that, they were talking about where for 20 years, we were at the 50th percent rate. We were approaching it where it was almost we had less voters than we had,   voters,   or non voters.  

So I I absolutely agree more more women are,   voting,   in the systems.   But,   because of that,   what we see is   is,   very social   social issues  

[00:50:44] Benjamin Balderson:

driving everything.  

[00:50:46] Unknown:

We don't see not anymore infrastructure   being the issue. We don't see finance   being the issue.   Why?   Because   emotions   and women   drive our system now. So now whatever's got everybody's   panties in a bunch   is the big social hot cake.   And we can even take things like   even,   LGBTQ LGBTQ   concerns and things like that   in a men's system   that never gets talked about in politics.   Nobody cares.   That's only in politics because of women in politics.   And a 100%,   the that system   eventually   led to this one,   but everything can be corrupted. There's no such thing as an incorruptible   system.  

The system in and of itself, you're pretending like it like the people who built that system didn't already say,   we are the fucking failures. They said flat out the life tree of liberty   was must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.   We got 2 chicken shit.   We quit. We let start letting the loonies run the show and it's starting and all of a sudden, again, because we let women start running   also having equal say, it wasn't nice to call the loonies out. It's not nice to be honest.   It's it's honestly part of why you should never have women in a in a voting situation is because when most women   can't be honest or intellectually honest.  

If you have a a debate and I'm not pointing out Leslie in any way, shape or form, But the vast majority of women,   they're more worried about how you feel than being honest.   And if if a situation comes up that's overly uncomfortable   or that they feel like the light that they're gonna be seen in is wrong, they will say a different answer than what they actually think or want. And men aren't like that.   So that's a real problem when we're talking about making laws, not including there's 1 week a month and we can pretend   like, again, politeness,   we have to not actually be honest.  

There's at least 1 week a month where women are absolutely batshit crazy. Well,   what if there that's the week the votes come down. That week, I've seen women do things that are so counter to everything they want.   And, it was my hormones, but then now in today's society, because we're in this feel good, can't be honest society because it's so feminized,   We can't bring that up, nor can we bring up   the time period between when women are going through that and when they stabilize where they got the menopause where it's like a 2 to   5, 6 year   period where they're just absolutely moment to moment batshit crazy and can't make up their own minds about anything.  

But I'm supposed but we as a country are supposed to   now make laws, do things like that based on that.   That absolutely   makes no sense to me. And I I don't see how it ever could. And also   this the should women vote, this isn't a prescription on fixing the entire system.   That that conversation would get if this is spiraling out wide,   then that would spiral out. Woo.   So to try and make an overall prescription to fill to debate all those points   would be giant. This is not some   some super pill that's gonna make everything better. Again, I already even stated that   dipshit, even if we just today cut just women out of the system,   Dipshit. There's literally a dude down in Garberville here who swings axes at cars and wears a leather jacket when it's a 110.  

And he doesn't know what planet he's on. But if they can but if they give him a shower and they do this and march him into a voting booth because they go around and collect them up to make sure they all get their right to vote,   that guy still equal to me. So is this a a a prescription for all of it? Absolutely not. But even in an ideal system, do I think women should vote?   Absolutely not. Again,   that's   still does not mean that they don't have representation,   and they had representation   before the vote. Things like when the child labor laws got changed. That wasn't men that said that, that was women. And yet somehow,   it ended up on ballots and passed   because women had lots of power   even though they didn't vote. I  

[00:55:32] Unknown:

just have to point out that   you're saying that if it was men voting, they wouldn't be talking about sexual issues. It was a man system that had laws against homosexuality.   It was a man system that had laws against people that they thought were lesser than them.   I mean, it's ridiculous to say that what we're seeing now is not the pendulum swing back from the extreme   conservativism   and religiosity   of the government   that we had before.  

[00:56:03] allen marcus:

Sure. Sure. So that's a that's a good point to bring up the   I guess I'd describe them as flavors of democracy   and having   kind of this,   do I like this, taste over here, or do I like this other equal and opposite taste? So if we're talking 2 wings of the same bird thing. So in our system currently having a Coke or Pepsi choice, well, it's still a soda, it's still a beverage. So it's not really that different.   If we're talking specifically about,   a presidential election that's coming up this very year in the year 2024,   where we have a democratic candidate and we have a republican candidate,   red or blue,   again, that's not a gender issue. Red or blue is not saying   democrats are men or women or republicans are men or women, so it's not really a gender war. But I wanna just zero in on this idea of efficiency in government.  

The larger the democratic   representation   becomes,   the longer it takes to sit and hear the arguments from every   person   who has a complaint   or an issue. If we're talking the level of city council meeting where every citizen   who locally, you know, owns a home, they have a neighborhood, and they go to city council, and they wanna complain to say the potholes in front of my house should be prioritized over the potholes in in front of somebody else's house.   Well, that's a local level. I'm talking in terms of government efficiency on all   levels,   which is important to responding to crisis.  

So if the government is organized   with men who are qualified,   who have the education,   who have the skills, and who have the ability to respond to crisis   immediately,   then that would point towards greater efficiency,   specifically   looking at collapsing bridges   and dams that are failing.   So to have engineers   going around, checking bridges   and dams   and infrastructures,   and then reporting to government   to say,   we need to re replace bridges.   Here is our report   on what bridges are most likely   to fail. Having actual   studies   done with quantifiable,   measurable,   statistical   data   to then bring to present   to people   to then decide   what course of action needs to happen first. We'll speak to the argument of   a male   led governance system will lead to efficiency.  

To balance this,   a female led household,   mothers   at home, taking care of children   will lead to increased efficiency   at home   in the home.   So women and children in education,   learning about how the world works,   what the physics are of bridge collapsing,   what rust happens in metals, what are the bay basic maintenance   skills.   So speaking to government   needing to respond to crisis and actual   real world   infrastructure   that everyone has to deal with   should   be the top priority   of the most efficient government.   Now looking at our government today and seeing how wasteful it is in terms of spending   on projects,   spending   money to listen to   things that are not immediate concerns for the immediate   benefit   of people that need it now. We can look back to, like, hurricane Katrina   and how that was responded to. Families need homes. Families need food. Families need basic needs.  

Now this basic needs issue not being met   points to the class disparity we have.   So if we're talking about should men   be   in charge of governance   and not include women in governance leading to maximum efficiency,   we also have to address the issue of   men with money or men with no money, men with jobs, men with no jobs. So if we have already   this   class system   of   low class, middle class,   high   class, which is factually   demonstrated   by our tax brackets. I know we brought up taxes   earlier to say governance is going to imply a sort of taxation or a fundraising   to then enact military   and enact,   infrastructure products and these types of things.  

FDR's new deal, these types of things. We haven't even addressed the issue   of what we would call the Social Security systems and social safety nets. So things like food stamps and other sort of benefits given out to certain people. So there's all of this, but, again, I wanna,   go back to the idea of   the goal   of   moving towards a more efficient   and sustainable   government and then having the checks and balances say, well,   our votes then should go towards those people who are proven   in their efficiency.   If we elect new candidates   who prove to be inefficient,   then they would be replaced.  

In a system run by men who recognize meritocracy   and skill   and these sort of   quali quantitative and qualified   measurements   and statistics   and numbers   and measurements,   then that would lead towards the idea that   men in governance can handle   that   hard factual data and then make the best decisions   for all citizens   within that country.   That's what I'm arguing.  

[01:02:07] Leslie Powers:

Okay.   I think I'm gonna say something.   So there's a lot of assumptions   and generalizations   that I'm hearing   around   kind of overarching   statements that men are better than better at some   skills than women are,   that women have   strengths in one area and men in another. And and so   that   that is up for question   and is not, you know, and both and and requires more specific,   like, information. So for example,   men there are women who   can be at very skillful levels of,   let's say, engineering.   Alright?   You know? And be at that level of a man. Now if a woman, if that is her   gift and her   study,   then that puts her in a pretty equal place with a man   who's also in that position, maybe even offering something   of added benefit   in the decision making. So any decision making or leadership   requires   a balance.  

Right? So if it's all masculine   at the exclusion of feminine   wisdom or feminine string, then it's going to be imbalanced.   Okay? And the result of that will be imbalanced.   So   so I think that when you say that, you know, all men, it sort sounds like you're saying, well, men are really good at this, that, and the other, so it should be led by men and that women would come in and be too emotional and dirty it up. And I think that that's a bias that's not based in reality   necessarily.   Because I know many women who could go toe to toe   on different areas of expertise with men and not you know, I know men women who are working with men in position you know, and   very male dominated Sure. Quick point.  



[01:04:17] allen marcus:

Having having worked in places where   you know, blue collar jobs where men work.   Men do really well working together with other men. As soon as a a woman gets hired on on staff or an an, female HR representative steps in to sort of guide the men,   it it's it creates different groups within the men.   And now they have to respond to, well, are we going to do what the female,   leadership says? The the women leadership, do we respond to them? And there's a group of men that says, well, we have to do that because they are   responsible for hiring and firing, so we have to appease the woman. But then there's another group of men that says, well, we're boots on the ground. We know the lay of the land. We know what the project is, but now they're making a suggestion.  

So now within the men so the so in that instance, I would say that creates an imbalance   in a male led project.  

[01:05:10] Leslie Powers:

Sure. Sure. I could see that. And I could see that, you know, that there's also an implicit   problem with the authority structure of it for, you know, women in that role to think she has authority over the men who are doing their job, you know, is is it is is problematic.   Or or even if it's a man who's going to assert micromanagement   over people who are doing their job. I think that both could go wrong.   But I think that is it really about being a woman, or is it about the particular   way that that particular woman is doing something?   And maybe maybe the differences are are not compatible. And if that's the case, that's okay.  

But we're talking   about so then you wouldn't vote, you know, for the person who's not compatible   to be in that position.   Right? And women could probably see that. Now but if you're operating like the way we are,   a lot of women are operating from the standpoint, I'm just gonna vote for the woman because she's a woman.   Right? That's that's not logical.   That's   very biased, and it and there's a whole his   a a background story to   that type of emotional decision making.   So it's a a logical fallacy. It's emotional reasoning.   Right?  

Men have problems with emotional   reasoning too. Men are not excluded from   having emotional biases   or imposing   their   preconceived understanding of the world onto structures or onto,   you know, things, you know, that,   that they may not may not be their main wheelhouse.   Okay?   So,   you know, it this is getting so messy because I could say, alright. So if if   in   if it's not your business, if it's not your wheelhouse, you really have no business in it in a sense. I could go I I understand that.   And if I'm in our society, if we're gonna vote, we're voting for, like, people   that   are being given an exorbitant   amount of   influence   on a whole multitude of topics   that they're not really informed or experienced   in   nor have expertise in. And so the whole it's a whole setup.  

Right?  

[01:07:37] allen marcus:

When I'm hearing again about DEI, this diversity, equity, inclusion idea?  

[01:07:42] Leslie Powers:

Well, I mean, I'm that's maybe part of it. But just in general, if I'm gonna vote for somebody in the city council, they're making decisions on things that they they that isn't their   expertise.   Right? And I don't get a say.   Maybe I'm an expert in one area, but I don't get to vote in that.   But somebody does because they're elected,   And there's a you know, all the coercion and the   the   bribery and the   everything that goes on that corrupts that system. Right? With all the,   you know, the,   the groups that, you know, pay them off and Sure. Lobbying. Are you suggesting that governments are,  

[01:08:26] allen marcus:

liable to subversion   and intrusion from outside forces? Yeah. May make another point.  

[01:08:32] Leslie Powers:

Right. So the problem   with, like, saying that women   like, for example, Benjamin, when you said that   that   this the things on the ballot and the problems that we that are taking over the the media and so forth and the voting and the the diet the polarizations and the arguments are because of women   voting. I think that's a very questionable con conclusion   because   there's   so many forces   very adamant about putting certain things on the ballot and creating   these divisions   between people and exploiting   those divisions, exploiting the differences. Right?   And maybe hooking in. Right? I'm not saying that they're it's not hooking into women and women aren't falling for it. Many women are. I work in social work. Okay? Predominantly   women dominated.  

Very,   very   captured   into this whole political,   the field is very integrated, like, intertwined into politics and very much left leaning,   which, you know and there's a lot of lobbying and so forth to try to tell us that this is what's best for people. Right?   And and a lot of people in the field get   they fall for it because they're falling for the system. They're falling for the illegitimacy of this authority structure and the way that our government is set and believing stories, right, and not seeing what's actually going on. So I'm not saying that that   I I think it's oversimplified   to say though that it's because women are voting. I think that the problem is so much deeper   and that what women need to offer, though, is a perspective   about   of care, about relationships   and people and,   you know, the the,   that that men may not be   admit necessarily   that men may not necessarily have. Right?  

And so   that   doesn't mean, though, that a woman isn't capable   of   integrating the masculine point of view and voting logically.   Right? Women are capable of that. I'm capable of that. Right? I'm capable of doing that on my period, and I'm capable of doing it in menopause.   And   I the women I know   who who recognize that they have   distortions in there or exact or exaggerations or whatever's happening during hormonal changes are aware of that   and are not that shit crazy. So I'm I'm glad you brought up the the moment. Yeah. Men who have experienced women who become   that shit crazy, but I would say that that is that experience does not represent the all of women   and that it's not right or fair to extrapolate that to all women.  

And and also I would say that   the a lot of the fluctuations   that women do   experience   isn't because   by virtue of being a woman per se, but a woman in a very sick environment   and an imbalanced environment. Right. And that's that's right. Being a man or a woman. And men do a lot of shitty things too.   Men do a lot of horrible things with their anger and their,   you know,   aggression, but that isn't I don't see that as, oh, all men should be restricted from   taking care of children because they have no patience, you know, or whatever. Like, that's an exact that's that's a stereotype.   It's a   you know, we can we can play that game all day. You know, men could be like, oh, those women, they're like, and then women would be like, oh, men.  

In the end, what does where does that take us?   Where we really need to go is going to involve both of us coming together, men and women, understanding each other in deep ways,   being patient and understanding, watching our biases and our stereotypes,   asking questions, getting to know why.   And because, you know,   we are   in a in a dance   and one person's   extreme reaction may have something to do with the other person's under reaction or vice versa   or a history or a trauma history.   And so   these things are not talked about   or seen as as vital and important as they really are to explaining what's really going on in the world. It's  

[01:13:10] allen marcus:

so May I dance?   So when talking about   this argument   to, in a way, protect women from having to involve themselves   in a governance process   to define   what a woman is versus what a man is. We live in a culture where technology has enabled sort of puberty blockers   and sex change operations   and these types of things.   So in in expanding the definition of what a man is to clarify it further to say   a biological   born male   versus   everyone else who is not a biological   identifying born male, That includes, like, cisgendered,   heterosexual male. I we're not gonna argue about sexual preferences in the male. That's that's not what I'm arguing for. I'm we're arguing against women   in governance.  

For this reason,   the reason that   when women are allowed in the governance practice, they're allowed to   put their names on the ballots. They're allowed to intense scrutiny   from ageism to,   jokes that the only reason a woman is there is because she had sexual relations with men to get her there.   Because of this is this is just how   it is. This is history. This has always been   that women   don't have   the equal opportunity and the fairness when they're put on a public stage. They are under so much   scrutiny   by women and men and everyone   all over the place.  

In terms of needing a strong governance,   we,   as a nation, as a country, need a strong   set of leaders   who are   capable   to go to other nations and talk with other nations. If we're in a situation where we have   a campaign   against   America to be seen as a failing state, as a crumbling nation, ready to implode, ready to fail.   And then we have incompetent leaders   who cannot go and talk to other world leaders and play at the same level of competency   and respect   and admiration.   For this reason,   because of   the historical,   targeting of women   as a entryway   for what we call subversion   to then   soften   the process   that needs to be hardened up, made more efficient, made more firm, more aggressive, and more decisive, and more confident   in actions   to remove women   from governance,   from voting,   from participation.  

This has actually been used   as a method to restore   stability in nations and governments. There are actual instances   of countries   who have been through periods of instability,   who have   decided   the best course of action   was to   remove eligibility of voting,   to lower the,   to to really hone in on who is qualified and allowed to vote to restore a nation   to what we'd say is stability   and greatness,   respectability,   balanced budget, secure borders,   all of these things.   Nations like Liberia, 1951   and 1955,   they removed ability for indigenous women and other   women to vote due to internal conflicts and political instability.  

If within the party itself,   there's infighting, the party is ineffective.   So to remove   infighting within parties and groups within the greater governance,   to streamline that for more efficiency,   and to prevent women from being seen as a target for subversion   to then weaken   the government as a whole,   and that might be through this diversity,   equity, and inclusion thing.   And when we get to the art of war and, like, mental war, mind war, sci war, these types of ideas,   all it takes is for a nation like China   and Russia in the year 2024   is to sit back and do nothing   and see how America   is now a literal clown show,   and no world leaders are currently taking   any American politician   or anyone at any level of American governance and leadership   with any shred of dignity   or respect.  

So in this time of stability,   offering a solution to say,   if we want to remain   as a nation,   we need to take   what might be seen as   severe   and sort of unpopular   opinions. Take power,   reestablish order,   and stability,   and balance books, and get this economy going back together so men can work, women can choose to work. We're not talking about   pulling women out of the workforce. We're saying we're facing real real concerns.   And if our debates are   laughed at by everybody else in the world,   then how do we restore governance and trust and confidence   in   an American   USA   government?  

I don't know that our current system is working,   so   I I'll leave it at that point.  

[01:19:03] Unknown:

I think that the the implication   that those   issues are caused by women being manipulative   and manipulatable   is not provable. I don't think there's any good evidence of that. This meritocracy   that   we we speak of sometimes   is just as much of an ideal dream   as anarchy.   Because where's the meritocracy? If it was a meritocracy,   where'd those guys go? How did they let it slip? How did they not pass it down to their families, or did they?   And are they still using it? Men   are just as manipulative, if not the most, thinking of the things you just mentioned.   MK Ultra,   psyops,   psywar,   those are all done by men. That's the ultimate   manipulation,   the grand manipulation   that we're all living through.  

Was Bush going to Iraq an emotional decision or a rational decision?   And if we were getting into the idea of left right,   the last,   balanced budget we had was under a Democratic   president.   Allegedly,   as I'm assuming people think that's because of women supporting them. But if that was the case, then how did George Bush become president?   So who did all the women, like, not vote for Gore now?   And then all of a sudden, they bring Obama back for another 8 years, and then somehow Trump gets in?   And and that's and that's somehow   women voting. Like, wouldn't if women voting be an issue, wouldn't Trump have never gotten in?  

So I just think the whole premise That's a super weird presupposition  

[01:20:48] Unknown:

because women are   are so much more for Trump than what you possibly imagine apparently.   In fact,   more women despise the liberal party   than men. I mean, to a despising   degree, even in even here in Humboldt County where it's crazy liberal, there's women for Trump signs everywhere.   And in people's yards,   like, that's really weird that you think that. In fact, they if, again, if you look back at the anti think that. Who  

[01:21:19] Benjamin Balderson:

I don't think that.  

[01:21:21] Unknown:

Think that. I don't think that. You guys think that.   You guys think Allen said in a previous discussion on this that women vote typically Democrat. If that were true   that women vote typically Democrat, George w Bush would have never gotten in. Donald Trump would have never won.   You saw the pussy hats come out. They were clearly well, at least, I'm in California. So that's what I saw. I'm I am not saying that. I am saying   presidents   are selected,   not elected.   So this whole argument   is I mean, to get down to it for me is invalid   because it's not hitting at the root of the problem.  

The men manipulated us into this. Why did they do that? If it wasn't men   or,   if it was   China, like, I mean, do we really believe that it's China that's running the psyops on us? Not it's not China running the psyops on it. Well, they are probably, but they're not the ones actually leading us to to to the communism.   It's people in our own country.   It's men in our own country   doing that. Why are they doing that? More power,   more control.   They'll use men, women,   whoever   to reach their to reach their ends. To say that taking women out of it is somehow going to make it better?   No. And where's the meritocracy you speak of? Where where are these men?  



[01:22:59] Unknown:

Those men those men are, those men are dead.   And unfortunately,   once again,   we we went through this again.   The the weak men   later on   refused   to stand up and and be strong.   And part of that was because we allowed women so far into the system.   And women never find a reason as as Leslie,   pointed out, women don't find reason   to go and actually stand up and fight. And there are times that they the hard line is absolutely needed. And they'll and   then those times didn't happen.   We turned into   a real ugly system.   It's very interesting because you can also look, and a lot of these things that you, mentioned   are are very religiously driven, like the homosexuality,   thing,   which that was because   those people in particular were Christian.  

And   even that at some point where got twisted. It's it's very interesting when you when you delve down into it because the the founding of our country,   came through,   the Geneva Bible, the 15 60 Geneva Bible was   heavy Protestant Bible,   and they broke away from the   Latin church where everything was spoken Latin and had their own Bible.   And then the church eventually ends up adopting that in 1599.   And then king James comes in and says, no. No. No. I I I got my own. I I'm printing my own Bible that says its own thing.   And so this this literally was the founding of our country. The people that we were taught in school that were the purest, and I'm not even a Christian. I'm a heathen.  

And so the people that we were taught were purest were the ones that refused to use the King James Bible   and stuck with the,   to the original translation,   later became called the Pilgrim's Bible because of it. And so then later on, we now see where the King James Bible is the official   legal bible of the country. So at some point in time, we can see that this that there was a switch   in that even that particular power structure. So absolutely, weak men   allowed this.   Unfortunately,   women is one of the easiest ways to make men weak.   This is part of why even the getting down on one knee was due to you took an arrow in the knee if you had a woman.  

That is because now you have a weakness.   You have something they can they can hurt you with, something they can get at you with. If you get, somebody's wife to really, really want something,   then   you're gonna be hard pressed to not get the guy on that cause, which   brings me   to the the the presupposition   that gets splattered out all over,   every Hollywood   representation   of this,   ever   where   where women apparently, they had no say so. Even though they had entire women's social movements where things that really mattered,   it got pushed through and put in as and then made happen because that's what they wanted, thus saying that they had power.  

In my home   my home, I absolutely am in charge. There is no votes.   None.   It is closer to a dictatorship, as John said, than anything else.   Now in saying that,   if I was misleading the home, if I was not a skillful leader   trying to make everything   good for everybody,   number 1,   I wouldn't have any other people at my home outside of possibly my wife who's in love with me. And even though in love would eventually fall off, which is why the whole implementation   of divorce in the heathen society anyways,   women were allotted   the privilege divorce. Divorce was and is still today a women's tool.  

80% of divorces are initiated by women because women is a is divorce as a woman's   tool. And in heathen society, if a woman divorced you because you were being an improper husband,   well, she got to take a bunch of shit because guess what, dude? You were being a douche. She still deserves to live a decent life. That's just how it's gonna be. So that was always a woman's tool in order to offset   that situation   of a really shitty leadership.   And   past that,   she did make a choice.   My wife chose me.   She lives a pretty decent life. She seems pretty happy with it because of it.   If if she wanted to choose somebody else,   she had other people that she could've went and married. She had other options,   other options that didn't live out in the woods and live like a fucking heathen.  

And she said,   that's for me, baby.   And She should've been voted for you. Okay? Right? You came straight. And now I represent   everything,   including   her.   She doesn't   have a final say. That doesn't mean she doesn't get a say. That's ridiculous to think she doesn't.   My wife is the heart of the home. And and to think that she has no rights or that I'm like some slave master or   no. She does what she wants   almost all the time.   There's some things that,   get decided.   And honestly, she usually doesn't even want a piece of those decisions at this point because somebody who understands it and is competent   does those things.  

And lastly,   I do understand what you were saying, Leslie, with the physic with the engineering.   What women don't do is physical engineering.   So women will match men in an office setting.   Again, even in engineering,   what they're not gonna go do is go make sure that shit works.   So this is how you end up with real pie in the sky   engineers that as as, as somebody who's an actual,   journeyman level   electrician,   this is how when you look at them blueprints, you're like, what the fuck? Does this person even live on this planet?   Like, what who thought that this would work?  

Like and that's because they don't do physical   engineering. And this, again, gets down to the root of the problem. I'm not saying social issues don't mean anything.   Again, my wife's the heart of the home. When she's not feeling cool,   my whole home sucks.   And so   social issues are important.   But the the way this country runs and and the root of it is very masculine.   Again, like Leslie said, I agree. The feminine needs added in. Her   her considerations   need put in there.   But at the end of the day, I do what has to be done.  

[01:30:31] Leslie Powers:

You've earned that on some level   then, and I don't doubt that. And I'm not at all, like,   advocating   for, like, a change in that   that style of   of partnership, and I think there's a lot of health in that polarity, right, of the feminine masculine polarity.   And I think that if this if that   was magnified   into the authenticity   and the,   integrity   on the level of a country or a community,   that that could be a very   positive thing.   But that is not what's happening.   In reality,  

[01:31:15] Unknown:

men are not No. I I agree with that.   I agree. But, again, in that caveat, which I'm not I'm loving what you're saying. I'm not even arguing. But there is a again, I did state that I don't think that these men who are unskilled,   uncapable,   tyrannical,   you know, in a in a negative way. Yeah. Those guys shouldn't be in power. They shouldn't have votes. They shouldn't I agree. They're bad. The other thing about like, John said, I forget what their your exact phrase was, but it's like, we are not electing  

[01:31:48] Leslie Powers:

these presidents. They're being selected. Like, there's the way this machine is,   the people that are even put on the ballot agree with that part. Right. For the most part, we're disagreement there. Okay. So leadership,   right,   comes, I think, not from somebody who's out there saying, you know, who who has a lot of money,   you know, that's saying, I wanna be your president. Right? I think anybody who's really wants that job is is very suspect.   I think true leadership comes from   is is like   it comes more organically,   and it it's probably, you know, not even from, like, a vote to somebody who's put themselves on a ballot because they think they're so great and they wanna go run the show.  

I think that in an organic kind of community,   there are people who stand   stand out.   There are people who naturally   fall into   roles of leadership   and and expertise   and that people, you know, would, for the most part, naturally,   want to be in in in certain leadership positions.   And that is that is   and and it might be very true that in certain physical   or whatever kind of,   you know,   skill, you know, labor, whatever it might be, that it's more natural for it to be men.   And   so this to me is like   it's just highlighting that the whole voting system that we are in was we're talking about voting, right, in a very   nonorganic,   very manipulated   environment   that I think it's kind of grasping at straws.  

You know? It's like we're in a desperate situation trying to pick come up with desperate solutions,   you know, to somehow turn the tide of this this fucked up situation that's ready to fall off a cliff. You know?   And and I think, you know, okay. Let's throw out ideas,   but I don't but though this idea of thinking that   if you take women out of   voting rights   or out of,   any positions of leadership or   elected positions, right,   is the solution. I think that's swimming up the wrong   wrong just climbing the wrong tree or whatever you wanna say. I think that we're really better off focusing our energies into into figuring out what the real causes of the problems are and really,  

[01:34:21] allen marcus:

Leslie, the the cause of the problem is that women are being dragged into governance. Women are spending so many hours of the day having to scroll through their social media to be aware of what are the political issues. They're not raising children.   They're concerned about the political sphere of influence.   All of this is wasted time. We have children who are being unparented   because their parents,   their mothers   are so concerned   about having the appropriate   social credit score,   politically correct opinion   around all of their friends, and they don't wanna be kicked out for their social media because they believe that they will be influencers,   and they will be paid by   Google   through YouTube to have a sponsorship   to go   onto YouTube   to show makeup products and then share their political opinions and make sure all the women vote according to what all the women are supposed to vote for. All this time is wasted, and it's not raising children to be the natural leaders that you were discussing earlier. The reason we have a competency crisis   in our government   is because women   are being pulled into this governance sham that we're all agreeing that the current government structure   is a sham. This idea of the government giving women rights to vote, taking away their rights to vote, that's what we're arguing specifically now. Outside of this argument, we'd probably all agree that   that doesn't work. But for our current 2024 reality   with a government structure   that says we have eligible voters who need to go to the ballots   this November   to vote for a presidential candidate who happens to be a woman on the ballot, a woman   versus a man.  

We're not saying vote for the man because we're saying don't vote for the woman. It's not the lesser of 2 evils.   So   when we allow women to return to   what their strengths are and to maximize their time spent   raising children,   really getting into giving them their proper nutrition, giving them the physical exercise   so they look good, feel good, which will then lead to improved mental health outcomes. So by the time they're 18   and they want to continue their education, they'll be properly equipped to do so. Currently, in our system, due to the fact that we're pulling women into this muck and mire of school board meetings and having to give everyone   equal listening time, this equality idea to say everybody at the school board is gonna be given equal time to state what their concern is, which stretches everything out. And now we need to spend more time doing more research, bringing more arguments, more people of color, more representation,   more democracy, more, more, more, more, more,   but there's an immediate need that needs to be addressed   now.  

And because women   are being pulled away from their focus,   it's causing men   to struggle   to reclaim   the coherence   and the cohesion   and the direct   action to meet real crisis   in our country, in our local neighborhoods today. People are starving. People are without homes.   How does electing   a senator   or a president   at a federal level   going to give the woman, who's the head of the house,   the food, the clothing,   the school supplies,   the toilet paper, the tampons, the products that are required   for people to live at a level of comfort,   to be able to rise above a level of poverty,   to then be able to be self sufficient,   to then reach the level of philanthropy,   to give back   what bonuses and what extra income they have to then provide   to the community   when we have a governance   structure   with women involved   suggesting we need to   increase spending on   health care.  

Everyone's unhealthy.   Why?   Starts at the home. It starts with the mother giving food as medicine   to the child. And because the woman cannot provide the meal at the table because she's glued to her phone   having to argue on Twitter   her correct   position,  

[01:39:09] Leslie Powers:

she's suffering. Marcus, I'm hearing you. And I actually agree that if that's in that dynamic, that's not healthy. Right?   And government is is a sham, and it and belief in government and playing   playing that role of trying to   do all that is a huge distraction, and it does take away from children. And   I think that one of our biggest problems is that the the lack of true value of children and the lack of valuing of motherhood,   and the the reality that children need   to have their parents, at least especially the mother, to be spending significant amount of time with them. And I think kids should be in the home and that,   you know, that a mother if a woman becomes a mother, then that is a responsibility   that puts all of her personal ambitions   aside   for a significant amount of time. I think that that's very true.  

And I think that women are a solution   to a lot of these problems because women are the mothers and women are raising the men.   And, you know, I have some familiarity with Michael Tesarian's work on the terrible mother, and I can't disagree with a lot of that.   Alright? And I and I think that women have been very vulnerable to a lot of the psyop and to the manipulation,   and, you know, Mark Passio talks a lot about the unholy feminine.   I I agree with what he's saying.   And,   yeah, that is   not every woman,   and and I sometimes wonder if what we're seeing is a very small percentage   that just happens to be highlighted on social media or on the news.  

But probably that doesn't really represent all women,   but people are led to think it does because there's a manipulation   going on in the media.  

[01:40:57] Unknown:

It certainly doesn't. Obviously, my wife's  

[01:41:00] Leslie Powers:

wonderful. I and in no way do I think all women are horrible. And I don't fit into a lot of these stereotypes that any of either of you has shared. I I would still you're talking about pause. You work on percentages and generalizations  

[01:41:15] Unknown:

because that's just how it works because we have to benefit.   Not to say that the minority groups in in whatever   division you're making don't deserve representation   and consideration that they're supposed to live some lesser   life. But when you're making laws, you make laws based off of the whole.  

[01:41:35] Leslie Powers:

Like There's also the real need to,   gather accurate information,   and   that's hard when we're working with the whole, like,   federal government as big as ours. Right? So I tend to   think that it's a ridiculous   task in the first place and that governance should happen on very small local levels. And in that case, then people do get get an accurate fully. Thoughts on what the reality is of people   and the needs of the the community. You know?   And and so   I think this conversation, more than anything, really highlights the problem with our our government and our system.   And and I guess my I'm questioning whether or not it's worth putting   a ton of energy into trying to change it.  

I think that it is   so far gone   and very clearly being manipulated   like the the two wings of the same bird,   you know, being both both both sides being driven into,   you know, this one world government kind of situation. There's a larger agenda   with puppeteers and social engineers   really playing all these cards, you know, and watching people spinning out here and there.   So instead of creating any further, like, aggravation   or, like, reactivity,   which I think that this topic I think that the the downfall is that it's going to, in today's   world,   going to trigger   a reaction that's on the opposite extreme that's going to distract us from   what's how we're being pushed off the ledge   as a whole.  

And that we need to reclaim,   you know, our our proper   relationships   and base, you know, our decisions on truth and things that we can measure and see and work with. And then, you know,   you know, and I think there's different ways to set up   governing   situations.   Right? You know, the structure, the organization,   the   process,   you know, can look different,  

[01:43:48] Unknown:

and I think it's possible for some some You understand that the problem with our our current government is when it switched from,   land owners   to democracy,   where it just turned into an open democracy.   This this was a feminization   of the entire   system in the first place.   Once you once you took the the competent people out, then this system was entirely corrupt and nonfunctional.   Because So why do you know When did that happen? When did that happen? The men's suffrage act was in the 18 thirties,   and   in many different ways, including a cult.   You know, because I'm myself and Marcus, we, we had do an occult show,   that's more based on that. I find the same,   twistings   happening in the occult world, And then we see thing products like, the actual feminine feminist movement,   which was a product of,   the Theosophical   Society,   which then at after, Blavatsky   became led by Alice Bailey.  

And Alice Bailey was the head of the Lucifer,   society   or trust, which became the Lucius trust   and then became the   spiritual   head of the,   UN, and that literally became a UN   law. And all these things started becoming pushed, including men's suffrage.   So those original men were those guys that should not have voted, which, of course, are a 10 to 1 ratio.   But we all know about things like,   if you were broke, what about the all the different land grabs where you could just go out and get   a plot? And then all you had to do was work that plot. Did rich men do that? No.   Poor men did that. This is how they became landowners.  

And and if you didn't have the gumption and didn't have the skills to do that,   why should you vote on how the place is ran? Which doesn't mean that you should live a shitty life.   Nobody is saying that. So a draconian   overlord   would still be somebody that should be removed.   But   as a competent leader, that's a beautiful thing.   I absolutely,   even in a general,   believe in the class system because there are some people, a lot actually, when you go around in society,   most people don't wanna think. They just wanna be told.   Those people should not be deciding.  

And and   the there's some people that kinda wanna think they're ready to lead those other people, but they're not ready for a grander overall plan. I agree a 100% with Leslie that in no way is a a   system as large as ours ever gonna be functional.   What I'm talking about has to drop back down to tribal systems entirely.   And then it has to not be a popularity contest, which is what democracy is. Where the landowners,   there's a meritocracy   as opposed to popularity.   You don't have to be   skilled, talented.   And and the funny thing is is as the popularity   contest went on,   then the things that you start seeing come in is a whole lot of of,   social move of social laws   and,   welfare laws. So we had a huge welfare system. Well, with that, we had the deg   that was one of the giant components to the degradation   of the traditional family   where you had the men leading the household. Because the funny thing is is they're still letting a man lead them, but it's the man handing them the government check. It's always that guy that's handing them the check, bringing home the bacon. Well, now they got a backup to bring home the bacon at any time. So now they can start just playing this popularity   game.  

I agree that   in order to take women out of the system at this point would require   entire   system to break down, and we would have to be building an entire new system. And in the new system, I absolutely would not let let women vote. But   the thing that's gonna cause the entire   breakdown of this democracy and what has   historically   is things go off the rail with women. And eventually,   when they're on the liberal side, which is   incredibly women   and horribly feminized neutered men,   when that discussions break down where the 2 cannot   discuss things, which is we're getting real close to that point, where it it is almost open civil war, we go back to doctrine of force.  

And when doctrine of force happens,  

[01:48:43] Unknown:

the feminized men in the women's side lose every time. So I just wanna point out that, like, you're you're contradicting yourself. You you are saying that women are more democratic, and then you're saying that they're supporting Trump. So it's like it's not both. So, again Did I ever say Trump was good?   When did you So, again so, again, men I didn't say women. Men are Men are not saying it's good. Men are steering this ship, and they're using women. We agree with that. They're also using men. We agree with that. They're also using whatever else they can use,   steering this ship. And you're saying that men are gonna vote for the betterment of all. So maybe what we have is the betterment of all. Maybe one world government   is the betterment of all.  



[01:49:29] Unknown:

Would you call Trump a competent? Competent men. Well When after the system breaks down,   competent men will come and shine back up. Would you call Trump a competent and deserving man? No. Me neither. Call any of the people Me neither. Incompetent. I wouldn't let that fucker watch my dogs. I wouldn't let him do my morning chores.  

[01:49:48] Unknown:

I wouldn't let him do anything. Well, that's the premise of my argument then is because, again, if we're talking about this system that we have, then it makes sense that women would be allowed to vote because we've all been manipulated into this idea that we can vote ourselves out of this. And we can we can vote for the betterment of people and solve problems. No. You can't. And again,   I I've seen I've seen I agree.   Well, exactly. That's what I'm saying.  

[01:50:15] Unknown:

It makes the debate. After this all falls apart as we're Gentlemen, stop agreeing. This is a debate. I know. Stop agreeing, gentlemen. This is a debate. I wanna say that right before that. As we're watching this fall apart faster and faster, there's gonna be a new system.   Instead new system,   I would not let women vote, which again is not to say,   like, I wouldn't let Christie vote. But   I do. And my Christie's best interest, I always represent. The other people living on my farm,   I always   represent because it's in my best interest   to have their best interest at heart. Because guess what?  

My wife, she treats me really fucking good. And and and I love it when I get when I do things that make her happy. And and I I that's one of my very, very favorite things. And I tell you what, I can't do even half of what I do without her. That's a fucking fact. Half of my kingdom I built since the day that she came into my life,  

[01:51:16] Unknown:

it doubled because I can now be more of a man because I've got her. You better say that after all the shit you're talking about women. No. Just kidding. Oh, I'm not talking shit. Kidding. I'm kidding. I'm just saying they shouldn't vote. I I know. I know. I'm kidding. I know. I wanna say I wanna say one thing real quick, and and, I'll shut up, is that I looked up I did a chat GPT search, full disclosure, so take with it, grain of salt. Mhmm. Women's societies, matriarchal societies,   the men in Kabu Kabo of West Sumatra, Indonesia,   the Masuo of China, often referred to as the kingdom of women.  

They practice   walking marriages where women choose their partners and relationships are informal.   Property and family names are passed through the female line, and women are the heads of households. The Iroquois Confederacy,   they didn't do very well. But   the Bribri of Costa Rica, the Kasi of Magalaya,   India, the Akan of Ghana, the Nagavosi   of Bougainville,   the Garifuna   of Central America. So there are feminine run governments in the world   in this system that we have. There's no reason why they shouldn't be involved. Sound very tropical, John.  

[01:52:30] Leslie Powers:

It exists. That's all I'm saying. Those all sound very Can we talk in principle, though? Are we talking principle, or or are you talking about a very specific scenario?   Because I think that there could be specific scenarios when what you're describing makes sense and it could work. And if women   are feeling safe and represented,   you know, and in agreement,   then it's a vol and it's a voluntary   relationship,   that that that I that it's not causing harm.   Right? But if it is causing harm,   you know, through the treatment, the abuse of power,   you know, that's another story,   right? And so there has to be,   a means for every individual   to represent themselves, right, and their rights in,   situations. Now   in our   this fake kind   of world we're living in, people think it's the vote. Right? I don't think the vote is worth anything.  

I mean, maybe on a very small scale, a local community for certain things,   but but it's like a false promise of some sort. Like, the vote somehow means something. It's giving you power. It's giving you a say. I think that that's a story line   that we're given.   But when you're talking, Ben, you're talking about very specific   like, I like, I'm imagining myself into this these these realms that you're imagining.   And and I could see that that could  

[01:54:01] Unknown:

work out, that it would I That was the scenario when the orig when the country was founded.   That was the scenario. And in fact, that is why   I'm not a Christian again, but I do actually love this part of it. This is why the wife is commanded to obey the husband, but the husband is commanded to love the wife. Yeah. Because would you do anything shitty to something you love? Would you   make this world where they're second class and not represented?   Right. So while the male's the head of the household and she's required to obey,   he's required to love her so there's a caveat of   I I can't make rules that are real shitty against her. I I gotta love her. And if she if if she though reps, you know, sees that you're straying  

[01:54:50] Leslie Powers:

from that true   heart and from true morality,   she has every right to disobey.  

[01:54:58] Unknown:

Yes. Well, and as a as a heathen, rather than disobey in the marriage, you are you have the right to leave   said marriage. So I'm not I'm not myself. However however that's where it came out.   We always had rights of divorce where women Yeah. If you can treat your wife right, including even sexually as a heathen, that one's even in there. Like, if you aren't satisfying your wife, she can oust you.   Like, alright, bro. You're you're, you're not cutting the mustard. It's, and so that had to be it's it's it was pretty funny. They had very strict rights. But, again,   that doesn't include voting. So not,  

[01:55:34] Leslie Powers:

you know, again, there's vote for? Tell me what the value of the vote is in this in what you're describing.   What are the situations   that the vote needs to happen? As as we're bearing down  

[01:55:46] Unknown:

who can vote, again, with this more meritocracy   type thing, where only people who understand.   Again, even on a job site. If I was to go build a a a I'm gonna build a drag car tomorrow. I wouldn't take a community poll on how to   what heads to put on the engine. I would call up a guy and say, this is what I want. You're an expert on heads.   You're the dude that should be running this. Tell me either tell me how to do it or you come and run this project.   So this guy's gonna be in charge of the project out of meritocracy.   Now when we talk about   renaissance men, these are the men that these men were able to build a fucking country in the worst conditions.  

And I'm not saying that those conditions John was mentioning don't exist. Again, I believe in tribal. So those people, I wouldn't even I still don't even have a problem with them. But, again,   they are living in a very lush, easy living area. They're probably living in huts. They they just go grab food off of trees. Sounds really fucking nice. I don't mind it. It doesn't bother me. That doesn't apply to the rest of us that have to live in a different situation   where we have to store food, where we have to we have   a a a temperature fluctuations.  

Like, we have to go put away wood where where   my wife, she gets to tell me how hot she wants the house. I gotta go put in the fucking work to do it. Yeah. You know?   So   and, again, with women,   they in the household, there's been numerous times   in small situations, I let my wife make a decision   that I told her is not the right decision   and got to see let her see the consequences.   In larger situations,   typically a woman,   she's more emotive, which she needs to be. We are talking about somebody,   like, in a parental situation, the dad is the fucking law. Like, you broke the law. Now there's a set of certain consequences,   action, reaction, action, reaction.  

I am the reaction. Now mom comes in, and she's like, listen. I know your feet. I know you're hurt right now, and I know this sucks. But what your dad did is for your best. So that way you can learn some lessons. It's for your best interest. It might be for your health and safety even.   And and I understand it seemed like what dad did was mean because what he did was strike you. What he did was ground you. What he did was something like that. But you need to understand that for you to be a proper person, you need to change your behaviors.   And so your dad would not have done that to you if you had not done that. But guess what?  

When we go back out here, your dad's gonna love you just the same, and I'm gonna love you just the same. We just want you to to adjust your behavior. And it's a 2 part system that's abso fucking lutely beautiful.   And and this is the way that this system   should have worked. Again,   this whole thing's crumbling apart. It's gonna end up going back to force doctor, and it's it's gonna be really bad. I'm gonna be real unhappy. We're all gonna be unhappy.   I'm so afraid of the fascist jack boot that's coming, that people are gonna scream for because,   they've the   representation   in the life that they've   been treated to has been so crazy,   unreasonable   that   it's gonna fall down. And when civil war falls down, the fact is   is the weak and the the powerless are the ones that suffer the most   because   the shittiest of men are the ones that are the ones that are doing it at first. And then eventually, it's not till eventually later that the good men, after a bunch of shitty men kill themselves,   are able to start reasserting   the, the, the way things should be. And   I I'm unhappy with where it's going.  

It, it, it's gonna go there though. Force drop doctrine's gonna fall back. And it always was forced. Doctor is the funny thing, but   because   weak men and guns   and votes, the force is any good man, and we all have have known men and been in these situations where you try to be the good person. And   because somebody else is able to sway the crowd   and make it popular,   you end up being the bad guy. And now it's not really about the situation. It's about the good guy, bad guy. Until   we   burn all of that off, all that draws,   we're not gonna get back down to a situation where good men can reassert themselves.  



[02:00:35] Unknown:

I'd like to offer a different perspective. It's anecdotal to my own experience.   I come from a family of what you would call basically a matriarchy.   Women who came over from   Africa on boats,   to then come across the, the country to the West Coast. My grandmother,   my great grandmother owned 2 houses   in Alameda,   across the street from the Oakland port.   The men were all longshoremen   because the country they came from, they were whalers.   So they came here and a lot of them got work as   longshoremen.   So they were working class men, but the women ran the household. They owned property.   They,   they had businesses.  

My grandmother   started working at 13,   and then she was basically the head of our household   for as long as I can remember. Everybody would go to my grandmother for money. They would go to her. She was just this the she was the center of it all.   I was raised by a mom who had a daycare at home. I was raised around kids.   And when I got of age, I had an instinct to want to take care of kids, want to work in education.   Now I'm not saying I'm not part of the of the psyop or of the conditioning, and that that all may be a result of that. But I keep thinking of the analogy of, like, when a brain gets damaged,   other parts of the brain start taking over   for the damaged part.  

So if I needed in this society to become a better,   teacher and influence on children, and that's what I found value in, that's what I follow.   And   I am   I homeschool my children.   My wife supports that and does make the majority of the money. I do other things to sup supplement the income,   but,   and now I am back at running a childcare center while I'm homeschooling my child because that's what I value.   And I don't see that making and I'm not saying anyone's saying this, I'm not feeling any less of a man because of that.   So   I think that the idea of going back is I I get it and I do think there's some value to that, but things have happened and things have changed and people have taken on different roles, and they aren't necessarily terrible.  

Like, I am a really good person at raising and educating children. Like, I'm not, you know, I don't toot my horn much, but I am. I'm natural at it. And,   I I think that's I  

[02:03:12] Unknown:

just so you know, John, in in heathen society,   men did take care of their children.   That's that's a very normal thing. I'm not sure.   You know, in today's world, I it's not allowed because of the laws that have been made. But   who do you think I would take to work with me? Who do you think would be out doing my chores   chores with me? The the only time it's a it's a primarily mother thing is between 15.   After 5,   the the is for especially for males,   the idea,   you didn't while they pretend like,   arithmetic and all that didn't happen or that's just wasn't what dad taught. In the winter, that's what mom taught the kids. Actually, our country, if you look at if if you and I I know you research these things. Before the Rockefeller school system, we had a 95%   literacy rate in this country. And the only way that they pretend that it that didn't happen is because those people didn't read Latin. And so then they ended up turning it into, oh, well, you're higher educated if you know Latin. Who gives a fuck about Latin? Well, my point is is that  

[02:04:16] Unknown:

this type of generalizations   that are is being made by saying women should not be allowed to vote, that same generalization would be made men shouldn't be allowed to teach. And there are a lot of women I've heard say that. I actually heard a story today about a mom that was freaking out because men were working in the childcare center.   So I don't agree with that in the same way I don't agree with senators. Weird sexual abuse in the liberal  

[02:04:40] Unknown:

world.   Look at how horribly sexualized, you know. They project that's not us. They project, you know, and it's because they're crazy sexualized.  

[02:04:49] Unknown:

Like That's what you're doing. But that's what you're doing to women. You're saying all women are emotional and irrational and can't make decisions and I didn't say all. I said generally, they I didn't I didn't say that they're generally emotional and irrational. Well, you could say generally I think  

[02:05:04] Unknown:

I think my wife runs off, like, flies off the handle all the time. No. But I guarantee   that there's times that she is   horribly emotional, and there's times that she just throws down her fucking arms and she can't take it no more and blah blah blah. And guess what happens when I feel like that? I still go do what has to be done  

[02:05:25] Unknown:

Because I'm a Well, I don't I don't I don't know what do. Women in my family weren't like that. Women in my family got up and worked every fucking day. Women in my family drove buses.   Women in my family built airplanes during World War 2.   So I don't know I don't know that woman that falls down and can't do shit. I don't know that woman. Women in my own family.  

[02:05:47] Leslie Powers:

Women in the park. And an emotional meltdown   doesn't mean that they're not functioning.   It may it might mean that you're uncomfortable   with their emotional meltdown. It might mean that a lot of that stuff functioning.  

[02:06:00] Unknown:

That's a meltdown. A meltdown by its very definition   is a malfunction.   That is by its very definition  

[02:06:08] Leslie Powers:

of malfunction. All the time. All the time. I I have never had, like, a I mean, I can't say never.  

[02:06:14] Unknown:

But I would say that it that it You never you never during your period or during I don't know if you're in menopause or I anything like that.  

[02:06:23] Leslie Powers:

I could say that I'm a I'm a very I've been a very steady person in my performance, in my obligations, and responsibilities  

[02:06:31] allen marcus:

despite any you've joined us tonight. You're proving this by joining us tonight. You know, because I Thank  

[02:06:37] Leslie Powers:

you. I have skit I have skills. I have self awareness. I   take care of myself. Whatever the reasons are that maybe just whatever,   you know, every woman has a unique experience, right? So I think it's really care really be cautious about the generalizations,   and   I think that there is sort of a, you know, okay, if you think about the masculine, very linear,   very directed, the feminine energy is different, right? The pacing, the rhythm is different.   And I think that, you know, in this society,   women have been   trying to be like men, right, and to be pushed   into   rhythms that are not that are really denying the feminine.  

But that doesn't mean that the feminine melts down and can't make decisions or be, you know, high functioning.   Even it doesn't have to be. Ideally, on a general. It could be it could be I'm not saying there's not exceptions. There's definitely woman has permission or gives herself permission or hasn't learned the skills   or whatever. Like, I just think   it's, I don't know that many women who have regular. It's not even an odd event. No. I wouldn't. I am a woman. I I know that it's not a saying that you do this. That. It is.  

[02:07:52] Unknown:

I'm saying general women do this. Can happen. Canada. Actually, we need to understand that as a soft their ability to make rational decisions.   That women always try to resort into exceptions   in these situations,   and John's even actually doing that.   Not saying there wasn't matriarchal leaders. There always has been.   Always has been. Not even saying there wasn't women that have been warriors,   Saying 99%   of the time, that's not the case. So guess what? You don't make laws   off of exceptions. So because there's a few exceptional women, doesn't mean we should, in general, let women exclude  

[02:08:31] Leslie Powers:

people because of stereotypes and generalizations.   The decisions  

[02:08:35] Unknown:

should be made on an individual merit basis. If most people if most people I don't agree with that. That's my good at something, it would exclude them from that.  

[02:08:46] Leslie Powers:

I would exclude an individual who demonstrates that they are not able to   operate at and function at a certain level that's required.   Not just assume that because someone is, a female that they can't do it. And I wouldn't exclude a male. Most people can't. That's the point of the debate. You know, because  

[02:09:05] Unknown:

I I'm not assuming it. Women prove it   constantly.  

[02:09:10] Leslie Powers:

Well, I I think that is your bias based on your experience. Provide data on that. Like, how would you be revived? Yeah. That's the efficacy, David. You know what's true because hormonal shit. So how did that You know what hormones do?  

[02:09:24] Unknown:

How did that What decision  

[02:09:26] Unknown:

did the hormone Do you know what hormones do? They're real fun, John. They're they're bio Well, I know you can also do a  

[02:09:33] Unknown:

few eggs. Give me a specific example.   Give me a specific example how a woman's hormones have affected a policy.  

[02:09:44] Unknown:

They they affect everything.   That's why most when you watch politics,   it's all about now   popularity.   It's all about the political talking points. There's no  

[02:09:57] allen marcus:

reality in anything. A man made a man made early appointment. He's asking me for a specific policy. Decisions.  

[02:10:03] Unknown:

There is no Can  

[02:10:05] allen marcus:

I ask for the the the,   the laws   and the the ping pong back and forth discussions of women's   health issues, maybe more specifically with the abortion issue? There are women who   are never going to have an abortion,   but will still support other women's rights to have abortions,   and then they begin to push what the definition of acceptable   legal   abortions are. So now there's, like, partial per birth abortion bans. You look   at recent footage,   planned parenthood   employees talking about very graphic   detail about   baby body parts and fetal embryos and these types of things and how they go for sale. And if they could if if they could do a specific procedure while the baby is still   within   the woman,   they could just alter the body of the the baby about to be born to then classify it under an another sort of legal   status to then harvest human body parts. I mean, that's a very specific  

[02:11:13] Unknown:

issue But I don't see it that's being decided by  

[02:11:16] Unknown:

by women. It's Actually, let's actually, let's go ahead and make it. Marcus actually hit the nail on the head. He just kinda went a a an in a a a a perspective   future way instead of the past way where we can prove it.   We look at when abortion was legalized.   How was abortion legalized?   Through a lie. We know that historically now. Then then with that lie, it came an extraordinarily   emotional story.   And everybody got caught up in said story   of the little girl who died, who couldn't get an abortion,   which in never ever in any state has it ever been   illegal   because they don't even actually here's the funny part. This is that whole,   Zollner effect where they peep they use people's ignorance against them   in order to fool them with truth. And so,   absolutely   no person like that's been allowed to have an abortion   because if every   state in the country, that's considered a miscarriage. If the mother's life is in jeopardy, they take that baby every time in every state that's always been the law. It's not an abortion.  

It's a miscarriage.   So, like, she she couldn't get an abortion.   It's just bullshit. And it came out it was bullshit. Came out the woman was a liar. Came out she was paid. Had to renege her story, but nobody cared.  

[02:12:42] Unknown:

Who paid her? Who paid her? Some woman behind the shadows. Hey. Whoever wanted  

[02:12:47] Unknown:

whoever wanted her life wasn't men. It was men who shut it down. You asked how you asked how the vote went down. How if Milton's not acting as a vote. Men are I just explained it. And you're like, but who did it manipulated   as well? Not at the pain point, John. But you're not at the pain point.   Men wouldn't have voted like that.  

[02:13:09] Unknown:

What? Men wouldn't have voted like that? Men did vote like that.  

[02:13:13] Unknown:

Men would you wouldn't have won that vote with men.  

[02:13:16] Unknown:

We did. The abortion vote We did. We did win that vote with men. Because of women voting.  

[02:13:23] Unknown:

If men women is the only gender that's being served next to the abortion in the past if women were if women weren't allowed to vote. That's what you're trying to tell me.  

[02:13:33] Unknown:

I'm saying men are the ones who are manipulating us into that. So I don't think that voting   has nothing to do with it. That doesn't matter. Voting has nothing to do with it. That got to do with fucking what you asked. It has everything to do with what I'm doing. Voting,  

[02:13:51] Unknown:

having   not allow women to vote? Because them fucks have paid to make that happen. It wouldn't have passed if women didn't vote. That has nothing to do with it. Our emotional It has nothing to do with it. That  

[02:14:03] Unknown:

allowing women to vote plus a 1,000 other things they did got the abortion issue into the public, not just allowing you to vote.   That's the only thing.   That's that's the only thing. Yeah.  

[02:14:16] Leslie Powers:

There's also social economic   conditions   that have led to that being,   something that women have advocated for.   And I there's an ignorance of Actually,  

[02:14:28] Unknown:

the number of abortions   hasn't really changed.   So, I mean,   none of that. And, actually, poor people have more babies than rich people. So, I mean,   you gotta show me where socioeconomic   conditions make people wanna have start killing their babies because poor people by far, Rick, people above media above middle middle class and above have under 2 babies.  

[02:14:51] Leslie Powers:

Right. And maybe economic conditions, meaning people who have decided that they want a certain lifestyle.   Right? Or whatever the reasons.   There are reason and it's and it's all lots of reasons. Okay? Are you   saying   an agenda   that was promoted by the Eugenesis   that, you know, that there was an agenda. And and women did,   you know, find they got rallied to it because of their their individual circumstances and situations.  

[02:15:23] Unknown:

Of facts?   What? Or was it because of them an emotional story?  

[02:15:28] Leslie Powers:

Was it because of facts? Was an emotional story in there,  

[02:15:32] Unknown:

but I wanted to told was that what told the was that what told the entire thing? Was it was it all around one emotional story, like so many other things today? Lot of stories.   Okay? But that but it oh, I don't disagree. There's a lot of stories at this point. Which story got that vote?   Just like Columbine.   Which   when Columbine happened, was that did that happen in the same week as the only time that we've ever in this country   x ed out semiautomatic   rifles   ever?  

[02:16:05] Leslie Powers:

Was that an emotional manipulation. It's mind control. It is. It is. It's And who is into your mood?  

[02:16:13] Unknown:

Control   manipulation   by virtue   of being the more emotive and being the more,   women need to tie with other people. That's part of why they're a better mother because they can actually   understand   the child. They can get in with them.   When you do that, the problem is is it's awful hard to make a hard decision.   When when I as a farmer,   Christy,   every life is is worth saving.   At some point in time in my head,   no matter how I feel about it, a trigger happens that either this animal's gonna continue suffering and never come back,   and it needs to die now because I'm just being a douchebag by fucking making it suffer,   or   it's gonna be risk the health of all the other animals. Like, let's say we have a a   a rooster out there. It starts killing other chickens. Christy will never wanna go out there and kill that chicken. At some point in time,  

[02:17:13] Leslie Powers:

I'm gonna go out there and ring a fucking neck. Doing so. And she might if it came down to a vote   about it, she might vote for that, but just not wanna do it yourself. Might.  

[02:17:23] Unknown:

But I won't but might but there's no might with my world. I'm gonna go No. No. They were talking about generalities. Your world, you're the the That is that is generally how it works with women.  

[02:17:35] Leslie Powers:

Yes. And  

[02:17:37] Unknown:

and so I I think that, you know, in this larger question of voting and office and Like, it's it's weird in our community how in that one instance, people are like, yeah. Don't don't don't don't have pattern recognition.   And every other way have pattern recognition  

[02:17:55] Leslie Powers:

up until it's with other human beings. Up with the I'm actually not disagree with how women are being manipulated and emotions are being manipulated. I'm not arguing with that,   but I'm saying that that that   isn't logically then say that women shouldn't vote or that women not voting is going to change the quality of our world. Make emotional decisions rather than actual decisions,  

[02:18:18] Unknown:

Absolutely. They should not be fucking allowed to vote. Absolutely.   Anybody   that's making emotional decisions, and this is part of why it falls down to this is how we separate competent men and non competent men. Men who make stupid emotional decisions and wreck their companies and wreck their farms around them and things like that, they they fall down and they end up becoming worker class.   Guys who can keep their shit together,  

[02:18:48] Leslie Powers:

they end up becoming leader class and owner class. This is what I'm capacity. There are some women who can be as cutthroat as any man. So I'm I'm opposing I don't disagree.  

[02:19:01] Unknown:

Nobody disagree?  

[02:19:02] Leslie Powers:

I wanted to bring up, like, okay, Benjamin Franklin's   wife, for example. Okay. When Benjamin Franklin,   he went off to Britain,   and he left his wife back to run all of their business, including, you know, building a house and running things.   So he clearly had a partnership   that in his absence allowed her to represent.   Right? My my I have relatives who have been in the military war,   his wife, when he was gone, ran the store,   took care of community and so forth. Right? Same thing happens here.   Right. So there's, like, a a level of of trust or in the competency of a woman's judgment to be able to actually,   you know, allow a woman who's equally invested in, like, who else is gonna care as much about your property and the way things are run than you than your wife, other than you. Right?  

And and so how is it that women could be a woman could be trusted and do a very fine job   at that, but not be given   the opportunity, like or even, like, even to vote on your behalf   in your absence,   who who else would you really trust?  

[02:20:18] Unknown:

I wouldn't trust anybody because my wife's been trained.   And I know that makes people real uncomfortable to hear whatnot. I've been trained in a bunch of ways too.   My wife been I've been trained how to be a good husband by my wife and how to how to act and how to not run around rough shot all the time and doing a bunch of things. And, yep, I trained my wife. And But there's no real voting in your world. That is.   No. I have lots of people that   that do things that I want, that I trust them to tasks. I'm the one who oversees the whole system and puts the whole plan together.   I'm the one who makes the decisions.  

I decide all of it. And so,   I mean, I don't decide how my wife's doing it inside her house or things like that. But  

[02:21:11] Leslie Powers:

Yeah. I think we're talking a little bit apples and oranges here.  

[02:21:15] Unknown:

I think also that we're at the point where it's,   agree to disagree because, I mean, people in the chat can decide how they feel, but I don't I still don't agree. Like, Ben, you're saying I'm making exceptions,   but, like, you're making exceptions too when you talk about your life on a farm. That's not what we're talking about. Generally how long it's been. Laws and the government.   It's not the same thing,   and it's not the government that we have. The government we have, yes Doesn't represent the people, and most people are like me. Exactly. So   Right. And it's a  

[02:21:49] Leslie Powers:

That's what I'm saying. In our real  

[02:21:50] Unknown:

you know, real soon. Did you just say most people are like you?  

[02:21:55] Unknown:

Yeah. What?  

[02:21:57] Unknown:

Yeah. That's that's again, that's an assumption, man. That's a big assumption. I've never met anyone. I've never met anyone.  

[02:22:03] Benjamin Balderson:

Yeah. Exactly.  

[02:22:05] Unknown:

Live on a farm, farmers Travel.  

[02:22:08] Unknown:

Farmers. They don't oh, not to the degree I am. People don't wanna live my exact life, but most talking about the farm. World. They operate they operate  

[02:22:17] Unknown:

more like mine, especially the successful ones. Because the ones that operate like the system, they're do they did what the system's doing. Then you really have to worry about in terms of women voting. It actually doesn't affect you at all. If you're gonna go live off the land and not worry about who's having an abortion, then what does it matter? The the someone said,   you skin in the game. You have to have skin in the game. Exactly.   It's a game.   It's a game. You think you're really a landowner? You're not you pay property taxes? You're not Everybody's place paid property taxes. Your property. And get we can go into  

[02:22:51] Unknown:

that one on a different episode.   But that's one of those that's one of those feel good things that make you emotional.   Everybody would pay property   taxes.   And no   property taxes? And no society ever   has property taxes not been a thing. Guess what, man? Ever. You don't you don't actually own land.   Because I pay the same thing that every other property has ever been issued for the day. The question that they need to pay. In that Paying out real good. Real  

[02:23:23] Benjamin Balderson:

good. You're sticking. Own land. How logic that, John? You don't own land.  

[02:23:27] Unknown:

Because I live in a society that has to function all the land from the actual people who had a claim to the land.  

[02:23:34] Unknown:

Who who didn't ever That's an emotional statement, John. That's an emotional  

[02:23:39] Unknown:

statement. Never happen. Right. Law of force. So I'd rather train my women to use guns so when your jack boots come to take my land, they can shoot those motherfuckers. So They are my jack boots. You can quit pretending that and quit misrepresenting me. You're you're in a in you're you're supporting the system by even making the statement. Yes. You are. I'm not. The system's not a part.  

[02:24:01] Unknown:

The system that the system where women vote and run everything that you're trying to They got everything.  

[02:24:07] Unknown:

That's fucking hilarious. Don't run everything. We don't run everything.  

[02:24:11] Leslie Powers:

Like a few  

[02:24:12] Unknown:

voting, John. The king. Who does the most voting, John? That's a fact. Not a fact. Voting doesn't matter. They're selected. They're not elected. They're not. Bush win.   Bush win. Are the ones Bush win. How did Bush win?   Bush got everybody's   feelers.   Oh, Bush did?  

[02:24:33] Unknown:

Yeah. Bush stole the election because he had more power. How did Trump win? Everybody  

[02:24:39] Unknown:

That's who they wanted. That they all cheat. Give me a break. If it's made to hit the ball, this is not their business. Right now. They're open that fucking RFP can split the votes so the democrats have some chance.  

[02:24:52] allen marcus:

Yeah. This is, again Chad's coaching for moderation to say, hey, guys. Getting a little bit emotional. Let's all take a burn. Let's take let's take a moment.   Yeah. He we got heated into the bay. We we brought up other issues such as taxes And Marcus land orders. Get the moderator check mark.   A a portion tax. Is that something?   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all of these things are intertwined with the the issue of   living in a system living in the reality of having a system   where   media   and pundits and there's a political apparatus that is set up. That is the system that is in play, that is functioning,   that we as individuals have some level of influence   towards. Now with the debate that we're having tonight   stating   whether or not women should be running for political positions   and whether or not women should be voting, those are 2 separate things. We can bind them into one issue.  

So now   ellenmarcus.com   and Balderson are arguing   that women should not be included in governments. That includes running for positions   in government   and then voting on those positions. That's the that's the position we took for this debate tonight. John Rowland, Leslie Powers took the other position to say that the system we have with   women   eligible to vote,   allowed to vote, and run for office   should continue because   that's what their arguments are. You've heard their arguments. Do we have   final closing remarks   in terms of that specific argument?  

And then maybe the second thing would be,   now that you've argued for that position,   do you personally still   believe in your own argument and to what degree? That sort of thing.   Leslie, we'll have you start. First, Leslie.  

[02:26:53] Leslie Powers:

Okay.   I think that,   ultimately,   my my truth thought is I don't think anyone should be voting in the current system   the way it is and that we should be building   our our structure separate from   based on the understanding   of, you know,   the illegitimacy   of this authority structure that   that we're in where people are claiming rights   over others   in ways that isn't isn't natural, isn't right,   and that we are being tricked,   and that our vote is really one of the biggest tricks.   I think that   men and women can work out ways of getting along and and operating well in society with both   the strengths, you know, of each.  

And that I   think that this idea of a vote,   I I would redefine it. You know? So I I   I think that, you know,   we're talking we're talking about   a broken system and then we're talking about kind of, another,   system way of operating that's completely separate and then they they're not the same. Right? They're different. You can't really compare them.   So,   you know, women   have   more capacity   than I think has been represented,   by some of the opinions here.   I do think that women are,   have been manipulated as have men,   okay, but in another way. I think both men and women are the victim of mind control   and,   are basically supporting   an immoral system   and that participating in it is not gonna benefit anyone   and,   that we do need to get back to some basics,   and get out of the story lines that are being played out in our world and are manipulating   people's emotions and sidetracking us and distracting us from what's real, and we're in trouble.  

I guess that's all I'll say.  

[02:29:15] Unknown:

I'll follow-up just to get both of our sides out of the way.   In all truth, you know,   Ben, thanks for bringing out the best in me.   I think it depends on what type of government you want, and I think that what Ben is describing   is valid   as a form of government,   but it does need to as Ben said, it does need to get back to smaller   government.   I I was very strong against government in general and the idea of authority   a few years ago. I've changed my mind partly by listening to people like Ben and hearing other ideas.   And and so I think they're all valid.  

And so if you look at something like the Iroquois Confederacy, I don't know a lot about it.   But what I do understand is there was, like, different tribes   and meant some of those tribes may have been represented by women.   And another thing that I've heard about the Iroquois Confederacy is that they had that our system is very much based on theirs, our original system. It's very much based on theirs, and that   the difference was they had a unanimous vote as opposed to,   majority rules.   So I think that's the true root of the problem,   and that   if you want to play that game of big government,   which is leading to   a bigger government,   then if that's gonna exist and you choose to play it, you have every right to,   male, female,   whatever. And that system may change on you and may say women can't vote, you know, poor people can't vote, and that's part of that game.  

And that's part of all the games. I mean, anything can change. So,   ultimately, in true DAOIST fashion, I can appreciate what Ben and Alan are saying   on a on a certain level.   But if in the system we have, which I think is a big game,   I think it makes sense that everybody would would be involved and that we would be where we are now.   I don't know if it's redeemable, but I think that if it is redeemable,   it's by teaching   the young   people a a a better value system that I don't think is necessarily   back to   where men dominate and, you know, it's a balance. It's the alchemical marriage. So   I'll end with that.  

Good debate, guys.  

[02:31:46] Leslie Powers:

A better said than what I said. Thank you.  

[02:31:54] Unknown:

I'm taking Alan wants me to go first.   So   I I I just wanna reiterate   in my system.   And, I I wouldn't say it's   off the Iroquois. I would say it's off of heathens.   This was the heathen system,   including that 100% thing,   where they were free men that ran   holdings.   They were the they were the the Carls,   and the Yarl was the guy that ran all that. But the Carls, if they didn't want part of it, then the shit didn't go down. But this again was   one small qualified men representing   everybody like that. And so there was that same system was always in place.   I I wanna reiterate   that,   in no way   were women   and even,   people that were the workers or even slaves,   particularly second class citizens in those societies.  

And, heathen society by law, if you damaged your slave   by mistreatment,   you had to pay their family money,   which is honestly just true indentured servitude. Because when you look at the beginning of the country where there were so many indentured servants, they like to pretend like all those people were just people that got in trouble. But no, there was a ton of them that they sold their kids.   It's   like, yeah. You go work for somebody for a while. Like, this was a a a fairly normal, very unfortunate   circumstance   at at one period in the world.  

But in no way,   just because it's a few good men leading things, does that make everybody else second class and make them lead bad lives. And as a matter of fact,   when you start   using things like examples to set the precedent,   well, I could show you examples of of a 12 year old that has extreme engineering knowledge and mechanical knowledge. Do I think that I should start letting 12 year olds in general   build cars and do and do mechanical   things in engineering?   No. I don't use exceptions to make rules. That that's it's called an exception to the rule.   And so   stating that there's weak corrupt men,   the problem is is the society we have   has disempowered the good men, and we all know that.  

And   next problem is is this is a crumbling society. And like every society before it that went feminine toward the end, it crumbles.   And then at the end, strong men start shining out. Those strong men that do well   and treat their people well and have   ravenous followers because they love them so much.   Those people end up running a lot of things.   I agree with these guys. Vote's garbage. Our government's garbage.   I think that there's no mass system like this that's functional in any way, shape, or form. I think the living conditions   in the United States alone are   too vast and diverse   to ever,   make laws that are universal that work for   any groups.  

What we end up with at this point is laws that work for nobody. Like, that's all we ended up with in order to try and make laws that work for everybody. We got laws that work for nobody, and the whole system's just cracking at a rapid pace at this time point. And when it comes back,   I, I don't disagree that there are gonna be matriarchal societies.   Hell   England was a matriarchal society for most of our lives. Most of our parents' lives, the queen, God saved the queen. Nobody says God saved the king over there.   Not saying that shit don't happen.  

Just saying when it does, they usually code as shit. And usually, unless it's very small. And in small situations, you can make a lot of things work. But I think   that when the force doctrine comes and takes over and it's gonna   it's gonna and I I'm so afraid of it. Like people like me are gonna go down because I don't fit in a lot of the main street things,   straight out.   You know, while it seems like I'm very conservative in this particular debate, there's certainly many points where they are gonna find I am not.   And so I'm gonna stand out like a sore thumb when the religious   style cleansing   starts coming. I will be one of the ones getting burnt and I'm aware.  

And, unless I can make it through, but at the end of it,   I, again, I think, the system will fall apart and strong mental rise.   At that point in time, we're gonna have to reanalyze all this. And I don't think this particular, the democracy, this is   one of the worst systems it's ever been. I think in college, they teach us shit, because everything about college is Greek and Latin.   They taught everybody this was a great system. It never was. It was a tiny little system that was okay in the Mediterranean.  

[02:37:16] allen marcus:

Going into this, I looked at a list of functioning societies without women's suffrage.   So that would be ancient Greece, Athens. That's where we get the Athenian   democracy. So all of that in that,   society there, they didn't include women in voting. The Roman Republic   is a political system that we get a lot of our American ideas based off of, and they, did not include,   women in the political process. This is the British empire, pre 20th century,   feudal Japan during the Edo period, and America was built into what it is today   before the 19th amendment, before women were granted suffrage. The infrastructure   of our country   was built up without women voting.  

So now we're at this point where   it's even ridiculous to have to have the conversation   to say that there are articles being published   saying that men should not vote or women should not vote. This sort of should should should behavior isn't benefiting   anyone.   And the problem that we've discovered through this conversation tonight   is that the government   is existing   to feed the government.   So the government is growing and feeding itself at the expense of   individuals,   men and women.   So men and women are being fed into the government grinder.   Again, that was my point of wanting to   protect women from having to go into the government grinder to be spit out and used up and abused, and there's nothing that she will gain from it. Men   will need to do that because men will need to   exert   control   over   the land and the situation.  

So do I believe of   all the arguments I made having to argue in favor of   only allowing men to be in government   and only allowing men to vote?   I can begin to convince myself of that. I can get into the argue argument, and I can begin to convince myself of that. But in doing so,   I'm   pushing for   the continuing   of a system of a democratic   republic   technocratic   thing   where   it's not the same thing it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago.   The government   structure, the laws, the amendments to the constitution allowing women to vote, all of these changes over time   are slowly shifting   this monster, this beast of government   into a direction where it's devouring   its own citizens.  

So offering a solution to say, during this time of instability and too big of a government   to say, well, focusing on the hyperlocal   level to say,   vote for   a sheriff who is in your socioeconomic   class, meaning a blue collar guy,   someone you know, who's your neighbor, who lives in the area, who's gonna have to enforce local   laws, that type of thing, is probably gonna be very important.   So to say,   vote for   men that you know and trust at the local level and then write in, you know, Walt Disney for president,   that type of thing. Well, you do what you're gonna do. The votes are not transparent.   So you're gonna cast a ballot. It's private. Nobody knows. I didn't even address the issue of   do we add another argument to say, well   and in addition to only men voting,   only men running for government, all of those votes need to be transparent,   including all of their tax records, all their financial records. All of that needs to be more transparent.  

That would be in addition to the argument.   But reaching my own conclusion tonight, getting this more in getting more information, engaging in the debate to both sides, and kind of   uncovering this farce of   vote voting, elections, selections, public opinion polls, this type of thing, continuing   to,   go off a cliff and allowing, you know, Russian leaders and,   Chinese leaders to look at America and say, well, we don't need to step in and intervene.   They're already   consuming themselves from the inside.   So knowing that   there is this sense of impending   bloodshed,   civil war, a loggerheads where   men and women and women and men are arguing over non issues,   bridges are collapsing,   dams are failing, infrastructure isn't being replaced. There are entire towns   who had received so much rain   that the entire town is flooded out, and we're not hearing about what is being done by   people in the area to go and help those people.  

That's what's frustrating.   So having to   exist outside of government   or committee or school board to go ahead and do the right thing   is saying that men need to lead the charge whether or not they're voted in or not.   Women   can join in to supporting   the men to do those things. But to pull women out of the house   to say, well,   you need to join the men,   that's where we're kinda arguing for more traditional return to balance.   And if   we   are at this point where   we have to argue,   do we vote for a male president   or a female president? That points to the point where   neither are probably qualified, neither have the credentials to do so. Having   professional entertainers and a prostitute   on the ballot,   can I say that? Is that allowed?  

That speaks to   the inefficiency   of where the government stands today, the joke and the mockery,   but without throwing the baby Jesus out with the bathwater and that entire political religious experience to say, I'm gonna just tear my ballot up and refuse to vote,   that's where you really have to look into yourself and decide   what is your course of action. If you vote or don't vote,   you still have to do something. So to cast a ballot and then leave it up to somebody else,   that can't happen. To not cast a ballot and say, well,   I didn't support the system, so I just have to ignore it. Well, that's also not gonna work. So, realistically,   having to   make these hard decisions   are on an individual level.  

And I hope this debate tonight   gets the the noggin jargon, gets the gears turning,   pulls out from paradigms   and habits and emotional   trauma and bodied armor sort of,   I don't like this,   to lead you to empowerment and action at the local level, to do well,   and then not just wait for a rapture to happen, an apocalypse,   a doomsday scenario, a nuke to drop.   To give up all hope now at this point when you've made it this far   is probably part of the mind control and is what they want you to do so that they could reduce the population   and then breed a new population that's going to continue   to support   their agendas and their ideas for 50 Minute Cities, technocracies,   and not having leaders, but having computer algorithms and databases   make important decisions for distribution of food to what communities are best behaved based off of social credit scores and low,   you know, violence and crime. So we have to, you know, we gotta get our carjacking levels down so that our community can eat is the complete most absurd sort of running man times   apocalyptic,   Taco Bell for president movie.  

Sandra Bullock, what was the name of it? Whatever. Movies aren't real life anyway.   So get out of the script, you know, write your own gospel, keep your own diary, keep your own journal, live your own life, value yourself, and and the influence you have on the world   around you. I think I'm off my soapbox now.  

[02:45:56] Benjamin Balderson:

I I I think this was a bit first,   more actual debate style. I think,   we did a real good job of being respectful and still getting our points out and and still also having some spice to it.   I I I I think this was pretty good. I got a few things to say afterwards that I definitely noticed where we were lagging   mostly in our opening statements.   Like, we need to have a written opening statement, I think, next time each one of us.  

[02:46:25] Unknown:

Well, I I was saying that you had to come back. Plus, you were, like, in charge. You you are obligated.  

[02:46:31] Benjamin Balderson:

She felt like I was gonna do this after. I always feel like I'm a dog faced dude.  

[02:46:37] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.   But definitely,   definitely, I noticed that out of 3 of us where your your, intro kinda loses direction, which goes to more toward John's   you know, they you know, we kinda started going like this. And if we have a written intro where we kinda have a lane to stay in, I think that sets,   gonna make it a little better, but I think this thank you very much, Leslie.   I   greatly appreciate your input, and,   I I thought this was most excellent.   And,   yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sticking it out, Leslie.  

[02:47:14] Leslie Powers:

Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's good. And, yeah, I got my wheels turning.  

[02:47:18] Unknown:

Yeah. And I you know, your your podcast is dissolving the divide is attempting to do you know, have similar conversations,   bring up, you know, some topics that, you know, divide people. So I think it's good. 1 and 1. You know? Hey. Maybe,  

[02:47:33] Leslie Powers:

I'm I'm involved in a girl's club,   podcast too. I might invite you on then.  

[02:47:40] Unknown:

Oh, but, yeah, I have to see   and you should see if they wanna,  

[02:47:46] Unknown:

come in hear. Yeah. Read anything. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. We're absolutely open to the discussion. Because, again, he here's the thing that I think one of the things that when I when we first started doing this, I started obviously watching debates, trying to learn different things. And there's a guy named Bose   who's a very soft spoken   he's an Australian,   absolutely Chinese looking. So it fucks me up when I'm looking at him because I'd see a Chinese guy, and so my brain will transform his Australian accent into a Chinese accent. It like, my brain's like,   You know? But, he said that it's good to start every debate with an understanding.  

And I think and this is one of the things that I've always had that nobody considers themselves doctor evil. All of us actually want   the betterment of,   society, the betterment of each other, you know, the whole thing. So we're all approaching it from that. In no way are any of us trying to do something that's gonna be   detrimental to all the other all the rest of us. We're all trying to do the best, and we have different ways that we feel that we should do it. And each one of those should be heard out. So   thank you for coming and doing that, and I would love to come do that with you guys,   and have you and start making this a more,   we're trying to,   the male masculine   feminine dynamic is a huge portion of that because that's 50% versus 50%.  

And so the more that's gonna be a big portion of what we're trying to do. So we would love to have you more into it. Thank you very much.  

[02:49:28] allen marcus:

It seems that's why we forced the issue into the should women vote, should men vote, sort of that mask and dynamic was sort of written into the presupposition of the question. We understand that. That was kinda by design.   I don't know what we'll wanna talk about   in the next Tuesdays.  

[02:49:45] Unknown:

Thank you, Leslie.   Bye, Leslie.   Bye.   Alright. I'm gonna take this   outro with the new intro.   So you guys, thanks for watching and commenting.   Great show, guys.  

[02:49:59] Unknown:

Love the comments. Thank you, guys. I love you, Christie.   I hope I see you tomorrow.