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In this intriguing episode of our mystery theater, we delve into the complexities of psychoanalysis, exploring the delicate interplay between science and art. Our story, "The Golden Chalices," written by Elspeth Eric, follows the journey of a young woman, Mary Ross, as she navigates her feelings and dreams under the guidance of her analyst, Dr. Van Vorder. The narrative unfolds with Mary bringing symbolic gifts to her sessions, each carrying deeper meanings tied to her subconscious. As the sessions progress, Dr. Van Vorder and his wife, Lily, find themselves entangled in a mystery involving 12 golden chalices, buried memories, and the power of dreams.
The episode masterfully intertwines themes of love, loss, and the search for truth, as Mary confronts her past and her relationships. The story takes a surprising turn when a dream and a seemingly innocuous gift lead to the rediscovery of long-lost family treasures. Through the lens of psychoanalysis, the episode explores the profound impact of the subconscious mind and the hidden connections that bind us to our histories. Join us as we unravel this captivating tale of mystery and revelation.
(01:23) Introduction to Psychoanalysis
(02:12) The Golden Chalices Mystery
(08:50) Dream Analysis and Hidden Meanings
(18:12) Unraveling the Past
(29:58) A Twist of Fate
(43:01) Reflections on Truth
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[00:00:00]
Unknown:
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[00:00:14] Unknown:
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[00:00:30] Unknown:
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[00:01:19] Unknown:
Come in. Welcome. I'm e g Marshall. Psychoanalysis is said by analysts mainly and feebly as well to be a science, but it is also an art. It is not enough to have read all the books, passed all the examinations, served one's apprenticeship, and undergone analysis oneself. The analyst must have more than education and training. There must be, besides and beyond all that, a distinct talent, a feeling for the work.
[00:01:58] Unknown:
Exactly as in painting a picture,
[00:02:01] Unknown:
writing a book, or composing a symphony. Our mystery drama, The Golden Chalices, was written especially for the mystery theater by Elspeth Eric and stars Norman Rose and Carmen Matthews. It is sponsored in part by Luden's medicated cough drops and True Value Hardware stores. I'll be back shortly with act one. The core of psychoanalysis is the transference. That is the transference to the analyst of all the patient's feelings. Hostile as well as friendly. Murderous as well as loving. And it is midway in the evolution
[00:03:13] Unknown:
drop, I think.
[00:03:18] Unknown:
Oh, I'm late. Oh, do come in. Oh, thank you very much. If you'll excuse me, I'll, I'll tell the doctor you're here. Oh, of course. He'll be right with you. Thank you very much. I'm sure.
[00:03:31] Unknown:
Well, well, miss Ross. Oh, I know. I'm late. I'm I'm so sorry. As a rule, you're so prompt. It is not like you to be late. Well, I'm late because I come into the study. You,
[00:03:42] Unknown:
feel as though you would like to lie on the couch today? First, I wanna explain about being late. I stopped on my way to buy these.
[00:03:50] Unknown:
Ah, daffodils. The first of the year. The sign that spring is coming.
[00:03:55] Unknown:
I brought them for you. For me?
[00:03:58] Unknown:
Why should you be bringing me a gift? Well, because I wanted to.
[00:04:02] Unknown:
You've been so good to me. Oh, not at all. Taking me on as a patient when I hardly had any money. Oh, I I know what you usually charge, doctor, and it's 10 times what I'm paying you. It was our agreement. But you didn't have to do it. And I'm so grateful. They are lovely, aren't they? Oh, yes. They're like chalices, aren't they? 12 little gold chalices.
[00:04:27] Unknown:
Very like.
[00:04:29] Unknown:
Why did I say chalices? I've never used that word before in my life. I should have said cups, shouldn't I? Chalice is a lovely word. But it's it's kind of a Catholic word, isn't it? It's what Christ drank out of, at the last supper. I should have said cup. Why? Well, because I'm Jewish. Are you Jewish, doctor Van Vorder? No. Are you Catholic? My parents were Catholic. I am not. Well, then why'd you run away from Hitler? If you don't mind telling me. My wife is Jewish.
[00:05:04] Unknown:
Oh. Come. Let's get back to why you brought me these 12 golden chalices. I told you why. I'm grateful to you. Nothing else?
[00:05:13] Unknown:
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
[00:05:16] Unknown:
Tell me, have you had any dreams since our last session? I never dream. I told you that. Everyone dreams. Not me. Dreams give us one way to clear the rubbish out of our minds.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
Is that why I'm so neurotic? Because my mind is full of rubbish? Very valuable rubbish. Nobody ever thought anything about me was valuable.
[00:05:39] Unknown:
Did you ever think anything about you could be valuable? I guess I never do. And so you chose a sweetheart who would reinforce your own opinion of yourself. Isn't that so? I always pick the wrong man. No. No. You always have the wrong opinion that you have not value. Till that opinion is righted, you will go on picking the wrong man.
[00:06:04] Unknown:
I see.
[00:06:07] Unknown:
I guess.
[00:06:08] Unknown:
I would like to go back to the daffodils, the 12 little golden cups, and why you brought them to me.
[00:06:16] Unknown:
I just thought they'd look nice here. That is all? They won't if you don't put them in water pretty soon. You only thought they would look nice here? Oh, it's such a gloomy room. I I I didn't mean that the way it sounded. I mean, I didn't mean it's it's gloomy. I just meant
[00:06:34] Unknown:
Yes. You meant?
[00:06:37] Unknown:
It's very nice here. And you are very nice. And you're kind and and gentle and good to me and I just wanted to bring you something pretty. Yes. But why 12 little golden cups? I don't know. Because they're pretty. Because I thought you'd like them. Oh, I don't know why I brought them. I'm sorry I did. Look. I I can't stay here any longer today. The hour is not yet up. I can't help it. Look. I have to go home. I'm so upset.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
Well, as you like. I'll be back next week, and I won't be late.
[00:07:24] Unknown:
And I won't bring you anything, and I'll try to behave better. You think you behaved badly? I don't know, didn't I? Did I I just don't have to get out of here. Forgive me, please.
[00:07:42] Unknown:
Lily, please, will you come here? Yes, Hans. Lily Lily, put these in water, will you? Oh, how sweet. How lovely. A gift from little miss Ross. Ah, well, we make progress slowly.
[00:08:01] Unknown:
A nice girl, is she? Ah, yes. Very nice.
[00:08:05] Unknown:
Very lost.
[00:08:08] Unknown:
I'll put these in a vase, and then supper will be ready when you are.
[00:08:13] Unknown:
She said the daffodils look like 12 golden cups.
[00:08:17] Unknown:
12 golden cups.
[00:08:20] Unknown:
Well, they do, don't they?
[00:08:23] Unknown:
Oh, Hans. It takes me back
[00:08:27] Unknown:
to Hungary. Those last days. No. No, my dear. Those last days. Well, they were the last days. Don't try to bring them back. Still, it is interesting, isn't it, that she should have brought me 12 golden cups?
[00:08:51] Unknown:
Isn't that wonderful, doctor Van Vorder? I actually had a dream. Yes. Very helpful. And I remembered it. Tell me the dream again, please. Well, there was this man sitting in this chair. As I am sitting? I guess so. Well, in the dream, I went up to him where he was sitting, and I climbed onto his lap. And he said, kiss me, darling. I put my arms around his neck. And then
[00:09:24] Unknown:
Yes. And then?
[00:09:26] Unknown:
Oh, and comes the sad part. Because I was so happy until then. What happened to spoil your happiness? Well, just as I was going to kiss him, he he turned his face away, and he said
[00:09:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:09:48] Unknown:
He turned his face away as though he was disgusted. And he said, go away. You're our nuisance. I woke up. I was crying.
[00:10:02] Unknown:
What did the man look like?
[00:10:04] Unknown:
I couldn't see his face. I told her the room was dark. Dark.
[00:10:08] Unknown:
Would you say gloomy?
[00:10:11] Unknown:
Oh, you could say gloomy, I guess. Like this room? What?
[00:10:15] Unknown:
Last week, you called this room gloomy. You said you brought the daffodils because this room is gloomy.
[00:10:23] Unknown:
Did I say that? Mhmm. I don't remember saying that. I remember. Then why don't I remember? Because you choose not to. Well, why would I choose
[00:10:37] Unknown:
I'm getting all mixed up. Now try to relax and say whatever comes to mind.
[00:10:42] Unknown:
Are you trying to make me say that the man in the chair
[00:10:46] Unknown:
was you? I am not trying to make you say anything but what is on your mind. You mean you said kiss me, darling? I can't imagine you saying anything like that. Except in your dream. Go back to the latter part of the dream after you started to kiss the man in the chair.
[00:11:05] Unknown:
Oh,
[00:11:06] Unknown:
the not so nice part. Yes. The not so nice part. Well, I started to kiss him because he had asked me to. You understand? By myself, I never would have done it. But he asked me to kiss him, and I started to. And when he turned away when he said, go away. You're a pest. And the sad part was that he said it just at that particular moment, just when just when I was feeling so happy and so loving. Just just a moment. Excuse me.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
He said you are a pest.
[00:11:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:11:46] Unknown:
Just as I'd started to kiss him. Before you told me, he said go away. You are a nuisance. Now you say
[00:11:54] Unknown:
pest. Why? What's the difference? Nuisance, pest. They mean the same thing. What hurt was it? He didn't want me around.
[00:12:05] Unknown:
I annoyed him. Have I ever made you feel that you annoyed me? Oh, no. Never. Then who did?
[00:12:14] Unknown:
My father. Oh, he never said that I annoyed him. He never called me a pest.
[00:12:23] Unknown:
It's just the way he made me feel. And feelings are what we are coming to grips with here. Well, that's the end of the hour. Next week, same time. Yes?
[00:12:41] Unknown:
Hans?
[00:12:42] Unknown:
Oh, yes, Lily.
[00:12:44] Unknown:
What are you doing here?
[00:12:46] Unknown:
Just sitting? Oh, just thinking.
[00:12:49] Unknown:
Goulash for supper with pahogne. Ah, good. Are you worried about something? Not worried. No.
[00:12:58] Unknown:
What then? I I am thinking about a dream that a patient told me. In the dream, she climbed onto a man's lap. The man said, kiss me. But as she started to kiss him, he turned away in disgust and said, go away. You are a nuisance. At least that is the way my patient told it to me at first. And then later, when I asked her to repeat the dream to me, she quoted the man as saying, go away. You are a pest. So, Lily, what does that suggest to you?
[00:13:36] Unknown:
An unhappy person?
[00:13:38] Unknown:
Should it suggest something else? Well, this was the first time my patient had been able to remember a gene, which indicated to me that the transference was beginning to take form and shape. Yes. More important than that, I appeared in the dream. Oh, she denied that the man could be myself, that I could ever be so cruel or so intimate either. But it was quite clear to me that that it was myself in the dream. Myself as the good father who asked his daughter to kiss him, then as the cruel and, arbitrary father who said, go away. You are a nuisance
[00:14:17] Unknown:
or a pest.
[00:14:19] Unknown:
When the patient begins to put the analyst in her dreams, we may be pretty sure the analysis is making progress.
[00:14:26] Unknown:
Hans, really, the goulash will be spoiled. Hadn't we best continue this at the dinner table? Lily, one second. One second.
[00:14:34] Unknown:
Now, does nothing sound familiar to you in the few spoken words of this dream? Kiss me, and you are a pest. I
[00:14:49] Unknown:
you mean kiss pesh? Our Kispest in Hungary?
[00:14:55] Unknown:
It is just a notion, of course. The patient who had the dream knows nothing of Hungary, of of you and me or Kispest.
[00:15:03] Unknown:
Where you and I were born, where we went to school, where we fell in love. Where we married?
[00:15:09] Unknown:
Where?
[00:15:11] Unknown:
Oh, Hans. Perhaps I should not ask, but was this patient little miss Ross? Yes. It was. But she is the one who brought you the daffodils? Yes. And she called them 12 golden cups? Yes, Lily. That is right. But when you and I were married in Kiespesh, my parents gave us Yes. 12 solid gold goblets. 12 golden cups.
[00:15:41] Unknown:
Interesting. Is it not?
[00:15:43] Unknown:
Well, is it possible that the cups are still there?
[00:15:50] Unknown:
Oh, now now. It could be true, couldn't it? They are not there. We looked, didn't we? After the war, we dug all around the cherry tree at my father's house, and they were not there. Your father might have moved them, mightn't he, before the Nazis took him away? That was all more than thirty years ago, Lily. Who knows what happened to them? But if they exist somewhere, they must exist somewhere, mustn't they? It's probably in the mention of some high German official. But perhaps not.
[00:16:18] Unknown:
Perhaps when the Germans came, your father found another hiding place for him. Perhaps this patient is is trying
[00:16:28] Unknown:
to tell you Now, Lily, you are not to indulge in such fantasies.
[00:16:33] Unknown:
But you know how much those golden goblets meant to me. Not just because they were beautiful and valuable, but because my parents gave them to me. Oh, if only your little miss Roth.
[00:16:48] Unknown:
Lily, even if it were possible, and it is not possible for miss Roth to know anything of the whereabouts of 12 golden chalices, I am not going to try to make some sort of Delphic oracle of my patient. Welfare, not ours. So let us not talk about it anymore. Come. Let us go have our goulash.
[00:17:26] Unknown:
We said earlier that psychoanalysis is not simply a science, that it partakes of the nature of an art, and this is true. We did not say, however, that it partakes of the nature of magic. No. We did not say that and we do not mean to imply that. But is it not possible that what appears to be magical may in truth be both scientific and artistic? I'll be back shortly with act two. Young Mary Roth brought a dozen daffodils to her analyst doctor von Fodor calling them 12 golden chalices. The following week, she brought him a dream in which a man asked her to kiss him, but then said to her, go away. You are a pest.
Doctor told all this to his wife. She thought of 12 golden goblets, which had been her parents gift at the time of her marriage in a small Hungarian town called Kispest. Now it is a week later.
[00:18:49] Unknown:
Yes?
[00:18:52] Unknown:
Hans,
[00:18:52] Unknown:
may I speak with you? Lily, please. Am I to have no rest at all between one patient and the next?
[00:18:58] Unknown:
You're expecting miss Robb, aren't you? Yes. That's why I wanted to talk to you. I I want to tell you what I propose to do. Lily, what is it? I want to write to your sister in Kiespesh. But you write to Elizabeth regularly, don't you? Yeah. But this is different. I want to ask her to have the gardener
[00:19:18] Unknown:
dig all around the cherry tree. Lily, we did all that before. When the family, what was left of it, moved back to Kiespesh after the war, the first thing they did was dig around the cherry tree to find the gold cups, and they were not there. Someone had found them and taken them. Is it not perfectly clear that this is what happened? But little miss Roth, the dream originated in her head. The daffodils were purchased with her money and brought here in her hands. Now I forbid you to write to Elizabeth. Or if you write, say nothing at all about the golden cups or the chariot. Do you understand me? Now that is miss Roth. I'll let her in. Say nothing to her about any of this.
[00:20:08] Unknown:
You hear? I hear. I hear.
[00:20:12] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Coming. Miss Roth. Hello, missus Vonfroeder. I I'm not late, am I? I don't think so. The doctor is in his study. I've brought him something.
[00:20:26] Unknown:
Maybe I better give them to you because men are very careless about such things and these really need to be put in water. Really? What are these? They look like bare branches, don't they? But they're not. If you put them in water, they'll bloom.
[00:20:40] Unknown:
It's called forcing, and it's fun. Lizzie, what is going on here? What is the delay?
[00:20:45] Unknown:
Miss Roth brought us some branches. She says if we put them in water,
[00:20:51] Unknown:
they will bloom. Well, what kind of branches? They're from a cherry tree.
[00:20:55] Unknown:
A cherry tree? I'll put them in water right away. Then I'll write no. I'll send a cable, Hans, to your sister, Elizabeth.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
You want to lie down on the couch? What do you prefer, miss Ross? Oh, I don't need the couch, doctor van Froedter.
[00:21:18] Unknown:
As a matter of fact, I don't need you. That's what I came to tell you. Uh-huh.
[00:21:23] Unknown:
Now that is good news. Every analyst waits for the day when his patient will say, I do not need you anymore.
[00:21:30] Unknown:
Well, I don't need you.
[00:21:33] Unknown:
Rather an abrupt change, isn't it, from a young girl who was so dependent on her old doctor? I guess it is sudden.
[00:21:40] Unknown:
Or maybe I never needed you at all. I just thought I did. Is there a difference? You're mixing me all up. I apologize.
[00:21:48] Unknown:
Well, now since this is to be your last hour with me, tell me something. Why did you buy me a branch from a cherry tree? Oh, I didn't buy it. I took it. Took it?
[00:22:00] Unknown:
Stole it.
[00:22:01] Unknown:
I guess that's the right word for it. You stole the branch from the cherry tree? Why?
[00:22:06] Unknown:
No special reason. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. From where did you steal it? From a cherry tree on somebody's big old lawn near a big old house in the suburbs. Aren't you going to ask me what I was doing on the lawn of somebody's big old house in the suburbs? What were you doing there? I was with him. He took me to meet his parents. By him, you mean I mean him. The man I thought was so terrible. The man I thought didn't love me. The man who nearly drove me crazy so I came running to you begging you to take me on as a patient. That very man.
Incredible, isn't it? Yes. But it's true. He called me up yesterday just when I was feeling depressed beyond recognition, and he said he had his parents' car and how would I like to drive out to the suburbs to meet them. Well, that could only mean one thing.
[00:23:11] Unknown:
What was that?
[00:23:13] Unknown:
Why did he wanted to marry me, of course? That's what it always means. I see. In the car, he told me over and over how much he loved me. But he had told you that before. Oh, this was different. This time, he's taking me to meet his parents. Did he say anything about a marriage? No. Not then. Later? No. No. No. That'll all come after a while. His parents were very nice. They liked me. I could tell they did. I had a very good time, and I didn't feel self conscious or unsure, not one bit. Actually, I stole the branch off the cherry tree because I felt like it.
[00:23:54] Unknown:
I felt so bold. Why did you not ask the parents of the young men to give you a branch off the cherry tree?
[00:24:02] Unknown:
I don't know. I'm sure they would have. But you'll notice, I hope, that I didn't come running to you full of guilt about the terrible thing I did the way I used to.
[00:24:17] Unknown:
Doesn't that show you how well I am? I wish you every happiness. I know you do. And you know that if you need me, I'm here. I know. Thank you. Come. Let me see you to the door and speed you on your way since this is the last time you'll need me. Oh, it is. Young ladies do sometimes have problems after marriage, you know, as well as before. I suppose.
[00:24:38] Unknown:
Oh, miss Roe? Oh, yes, missus Van Gogh. Oh, Lily. I I wonder would you do me a great favor? I have here a cable that I'd like to send to my sister-in-law in Hungary. Lily. A little town, a suburb of Budapest. It's called Kis Pesht. If you would pass by a cable office on your way, would you send it for me? Of course. Lily. Here it is. All written out. And here is the money. I know what the charges are.
[00:25:05] Unknown:
Alright? Of course. Mister, offer is no necessity for you to Oh, listen. I do pass the telegraph office on my way home. There's one next door to where I live as a matter of fact. Quite a coincidence. So I'll be happy. Thank you. Thank you It's a worry off my mind Doctor. VanFodor,
[00:25:22] Unknown:
thank you for everything Nothing to thank me for
[00:25:25] Unknown:
Well, I won't argue with you Not on my last visit Missus Vomphotore, don't worry about your cable. It'll go out tonight. Oh, you're very kind. I'm happy to do it. Goodbye. Goodbye, miss Vomphot.
[00:25:37] Unknown:
Goodbye.
[00:25:42] Unknown:
Her last visit did she say?
[00:25:45] Unknown:
Lily, how could you how could you send that cable to Elizabeth just because miss Rolfe came here with a branch from a cherry tree? I'm sure means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Now what did the cable say? Not that I do not know already.
[00:26:01] Unknown:
Dig again under cherry tree new information about golden cups. Information.
[00:26:07] Unknown:
We have had no information about the gold cups nor will we ever have any. The girl bringing the daffodils,
[00:26:13] Unknown:
calling them golden chalices. The dream she had about the man saying first, kiss me and then, you are a pest, which adds up to kiss pest where our gold cups were buried beneath a cherry tree.
[00:26:30] Unknown:
Then your miss Ross shows up here with a cherry tree branch. You call that information? Making wild deductions from dreams and pieces of words and chance gifts. Chance.
[00:26:40] Unknown:
The girl knows something. Or she doesn't know that she knows heavens. She was not even born when we buried the gold cups beneath the cherry tree in Guy Spesh, but she knows something. You said yourself that a communication can build up between a doctor and his patient so that each can often sense what the other is thinking and feeling. I did not mean anything like this fairy tale stuff you're dreaming about. But somehow, she knows. Oh, silly Lily. That's why I gave the cablegram to her. She should send it. I could have sent it myself, but this way, her touch will be upon it. Lily, stop it. In God's name, stop it. If there is a chance that my beautiful cups are still buried beneath the cherry tree Lily, there is no chance.
[00:27:26] Unknown:
And you should not be thinking about the gold cups or Hungary. We are here, Lily, and this is now.
[00:27:36] Unknown:
I'm sorry, Hans.
[00:27:37] Unknown:
It's alright. I only hope you did not take my mind off little miss Roth's analysis. I hope I gave her full value because because I confess I too had strange flutterings of hope that her dream fantasies might mean something for us, that we might, in this weird, altogether bizarre manner, find our lost golden chalices.
[00:28:04] Unknown:
What did the girl mean when she said her last visit? What? When she was saying her goodbyes, at one point, she said, I won't argue with you
[00:28:16] Unknown:
on my last visit. What did that mean? Oh, that. Well, it seems her young man does love her after all. He took her to meet his parents. He told her many times he loved her. In fact, he did everything she hoped he would do except propose. She is sure that he will propose very soon, but it is my opinion that she still has her doubts and is very angry that he should delay the proposal. That is why in revenge for his cruelty, she stole the branch from the cherry tree. Stole it? It was a threat to the young man that she was capable of dark and terrible deeds if he did not do the right thing by her. Oh, Hans.
[00:28:58] Unknown:
Come. Let's have dinner. It's chicken paprikash.
[00:29:10] Unknown:
The symbolism of dreams, pieces of words chance gifts fairy tale stuff should such things give us flutterings of hope that something very desirable is about to alter our fates? I think not. I think we should be stern, face reality with courage day after day after day. Yes. That is what we should do. But do we do it? No. I'll be back shortly with act three. Little miss Roth left her analyst's office in a state of euphoria because her young man had taken her to meet his parents. A sign, at least to her, that he would soon propose marriage. With her, she took a message written out by her doctor's wife to send by cable to the doctor's sister in the small Hungarian town of Kispest.
As we resume our story, it is a month later. Are you tired, Hans?
[00:30:28] Unknown:
Yes. A little. You're not eating much?
[00:30:31] Unknown:
I'm thinking really.
[00:30:34] Unknown:
About your former patient?
[00:30:36] Unknown:
Which former patient?
[00:30:37] Unknown:
Little miss Rock.
[00:30:39] Unknown:
No. Perhaps by now, she's on her honeymoon.
[00:30:42] Unknown:
Hans, I'm sorry I behaved so stupidly
[00:30:47] Unknown:
about miss Rock. Oh, that's all in the past.
[00:30:50] Unknown:
Perhaps I was jealous, envious of her youth, her charm. That was probably what made me lose my mind a little. It is all in the past. I was somehow determined to make her responsible for the fact that I'm 60 years old and no longer the girl you married. The girl whose parents gave her 12 golden cups for a wedding present. I felt I think I felt she owed it to me to get me back, my gold cups. What I really wanted to get back was my youth and the ability to look forward, not back.
[00:31:30] Unknown:
Oh, Lenny, it is a very admirable analysis. I'm proud of you.
[00:31:36] Unknown:
You give me courage to tell you something. I got a letter this morning from Elizabeth. Oh. They dug under the cherry tree for the second time. And? They found nothing.
[00:31:53] Unknown:
So someone did steal the golden cups. It must be so. Just as miss Roch stole the branch from the cherry tree. Hans, Hans,
[00:32:01] Unknown:
are you beginning to believe in the same nonsense you approached me for?
[00:32:06] Unknown:
Come now, my darling. It is just interesting sometimes to muse upon these coincidences. Don't tell me that's the way you conduct an analysis. Well, that is not so different. Sometimes we are right, sometimes not. Oh, the phone. I'll get in. No. No. No. Stay where you are. You have not finished eating. I have. Yes. Doctor Von Voder here. Doctor Von Voder,
[00:32:31] Unknown:
this is Mary Ross. Mary Ross? You remember me, don't you? Oh, please remember me. I do remember you. Doctor, I need to see you so badly.
[00:32:41] Unknown:
I know this is an awful time to ask you. You're probably at dinner. No. No. It's alright. I had finished. Can you come over right now? Oh, yes. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I'll I'll be right there.
[00:32:58] Unknown:
Liar and a cheat. He never meant to marry me at all. He just did all those things, taking me to meet his parents. He wanted to make me love him so I so that he could toss me aside laugh at me make me feel ashamed and humiliated
[00:33:22] Unknown:
That may have been his reason or it may have been that he is just a very callow, very insensitive young man who believed he was justified in doing anything to achieve mastery over a young woman. It is a common belief. Your young man is not so unusual.
[00:33:38] Unknown:
Not my young man. Not anymore.
[00:33:41] Unknown:
I'm happy to hear that.
[00:33:42] Unknown:
I don't know how I ever could have loved him.
[00:33:45] Unknown:
I wouldn't wish to force you to any conclusion, but you have already had some analysis. So I will ask you, who else in your life has sent you gifts, given you treats, encouraged your affection, even forced his affection on you, only to reject you when you sought to return his love? Can you think of anyone?
[00:34:08] Unknown:
I know what you want me to say.
[00:34:12] Unknown:
My father. I do not want you to say anything you do not believe.
[00:34:19] Unknown:
I do believe what I
[00:34:21] Unknown:
said. Are you feeling a little better now?
[00:34:25] Unknown:
A little.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
We've almost come to the end of the hour. But, I wish to say one thing more. Why did you bring me the bunch of lilacs? Oh,
[00:34:38] Unknown:
are you going to start all that again? I must. Can I bring you a little present now and then? I don't do it all the time. You pay your bills. You owe me no more than that. I didn't bring the lilacs because I thought I owed you anything. I bought them because Yes. Because?
[00:34:54] Unknown:
Because I wanted to. No. That will not serve as a reason. Not anymore. We must have something more specific. Did you bring the lilacs as a sort of peace offering? Did you think I was angry that you stopped coming to see me? Or were you angry that I had been right, more right anyway than you had been about the young man? Maybe something like that. I want you to think about it. It is important for us to know why you have these impulses to give me something. You remember the daffodils and the branch of the cherry tree? I remember. And now the lilacs.
Why?
[00:35:35] Unknown:
I'll think about it.
[00:35:37] Unknown:
I'm sorry, doctor Van Fotel. There's nothing to be sorry for. There is no harm done. But unless you can analyze your reasons, you must stop bringing the gifts. You understand?
[00:35:51] Unknown:
I think so. Good.
[00:35:53] Unknown:
Now we have come to the end of the hour. Thank you for seeing me. Do you want to come back?
[00:36:00] Unknown:
I'd like to.
[00:36:02] Unknown:
For for a few weeks maybe. Then I'll reserve the hour for you. Thank you, doctor. Not at all. See you next week. Yes.
[00:36:11] Unknown:
Goodbye.
[00:36:13] Unknown:
Oh, my my my. Life is not so simple. Lily? Lily?
[00:36:21] Unknown:
Yes, hon?
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Look. There are some lilacs here. Will you put them in water?
[00:36:31] Unknown:
He called me. He wanted me to go out with him
[00:36:35] Unknown:
and I did. No reason not to go out with him. Oh, doctor von Fodor,
[00:36:40] Unknown:
I'm still very, well,
[00:36:44] Unknown:
attracted to him. He is doubtless a very attractive young man, or you would not have bothered with him in the first place. Do you mean that? Of course, I mean it. Else, I would not say it.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
I feel as though you just forgave me for something. For being attracted to an attractive young man?
[00:37:02] Unknown:
Something like that. As though you had done something dreadful? Yes. It is the end of the hour. Next week, we will pick up our conversation where we leave off today.
[00:37:18] Unknown:
I went out with him again. He's really very good looking. I love to look at him. And he's, you know, a wonderful conversationalist. I mean, he always has something to say. Sometimes he's very witty. He makes me laugh
[00:37:34] Unknown:
and I like that. Of course. Why not? Well, we've come to the end of the hour, same time next week.
[00:37:44] Unknown:
He gave me a present, a compact. Imagine. He doesn't even know that girls don't use compacts anymore. Me? I don't even use makeup of any kind. You'd think he would have noticed that by now. Does it hurt you that he did not notice? To? Oh, no. No. It doesn't. It just makes me think he's kind of dumb. And he's not so sophisticated as he thinks he is either. Or he'd know that girls don't carry compacts. Naturally, I didn't tell him that. Why didn't you? Oh, I wouldn't wanna hurt his feelings. No. No. That's not why. It's because I felt sorry for him for being so dumb.
Anyway, I'll find a way to let him know that it was a dumb thing to do. You will have your revenge. Is that it? Oh, no. Not Anyway, I think he's too old for me. I asked him. I came right out and asked him. And why not? Well, because I I don't ordinarily do that sort of thing. I'm usually afraid people will think I'm fresh or or pushy or whatever. Anyway, I ask him. And you know what, doctor? He'll be 30 next month. Imagine 30.
[00:39:12] Unknown:
You have a good appetite. Yes? Yes. Wonderful. We eat more and more all the time. Will you still
[00:39:18] Unknown:
love me when I'm fat?
[00:39:21] Unknown:
Remember a month ago when you had hardly any appetite at all? Oh, it was never that bad. I thought perhaps it was because of your failure
[00:39:30] Unknown:
with little miss Ross. Well, perhaps it was. Nobody likes to fail.
[00:39:34] Unknown:
But now she's back. How is it going? Well enough. She doesn't bring you any more daffodils or cherry blooms or lilacs?
[00:39:44] Unknown:
No. She is afraid to analyze why she ever brought them in the first place. Do you know why? Of course. It is not hard. Why? Now, now. I'm not going to discuss miss Roth with you. I will not tell you why she brings me flowers any more than I will tell her. She must discover why by herself.
[00:40:05] Unknown:
And will she? Of course.
[00:40:07] Unknown:
She's achieving a beautiful honesty about herself. Well,
[00:40:11] Unknown:
as long as she's getting better. Oh, yes. Definitely. Then
[00:40:16] Unknown:
I can tell you something. Since when have you hesitated to tell me anything? Well,
[00:40:21] Unknown:
I did not want to interfere with miss Roth's analysis
[00:40:24] Unknown:
the way I did before. You do not have to be afraid of interfering. Hans, I did something. Yes. What did you do?
[00:40:31] Unknown:
A month ago. Right after miss Roth came back into analysis. Oh, I hate to tell you, but
[00:40:38] Unknown:
I must. Yes, Lily. You must. What did you do? I wrote to Elizabeth.
[00:40:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:40:47] Unknown:
You remember the lilacs? Of course, I remember.
[00:40:50] Unknown:
Oh, Lily, you didn't owe Lily. I couldn't help it. I so wanted to get back my 12 golden cups. So I wrote to Elizabeth, and I told her to dig under the lilac bushes. At the place in Kispesh has no lilac bushes. I know. But right next door, almost on her property, right at the edge in back, there are three
[00:41:12] Unknown:
lilac bushes. Oh, she didn't. You're not going to tell me that she she went? Yes. Yes. She did. She
[00:41:19] Unknown:
well, here's the letter. Read it.
[00:41:24] Unknown:
Dearest Lily, you can imagine how I hated to go to the people next door. They are not friends, acquaintances only. But your letter was so insistent, so frantic. Oh, Lily Go on reading. So frantic that I had to do it, if only to relieve your mind. The neighbors were most obliging. Perhaps they thought me a dirty old lady to be humored. Well, Lily, dear, if that is what they thought, they soon they soon changed because because buried under the lilac bush is only about a fourth pin of the surface, where they must have lain since father put him there before the Nazis took him away, there were the 12 golden chalices.
I cannot express to you my emotion upon seeing them.
[00:42:20] Unknown:
Who comes closer to the truth? The scientist or the artist? Well, is it really necessary to state so flatly that there is only one place where truth can be found and only one way to find it? I think not. Truth lies all around us. It is not hiding from us. It is we who hide from the truth. How long will it be before we pause to listen to our scientists and to our artists? How long before we listen to the truth? I'll be back shortly. I hope I have not sounded either smug or pompous when I have spoken of the search for truth and the long and various roads by which it may be reached For I am like you, like everyone terrified of finding that which I seek evading constantly that which I look for like you, like everyone
[00:43:24] Unknown:
a coward.
[00:43:25] Unknown:
But what is it one poet said, coward, take my coward's hand. Our cast included Norman Rose, Jada Rowland, and Carmen Matthews. The entire production was under the direction of Hyman Brown. Radio mystery theater was sponsored in part by Allstate Insurance Companies and Buick Motor Division. This is EG Marshall inviting you to return to our mystery theater for another adventure in the macabre. Until next time, pleasant dreams.
[00:44:07] Unknown:
The preceding program produced by CBS radio. Dial a set for news with John Wingate.
[00:44:13] Unknown:
This is Barry Farber. Join us immediately following the 08:00 news right here over WOR New York, the talk of New York.
Every sandwich has bread. Every burger has a bun. But these warm, golden, smooth steamed buns, these are special, reserved for the very best. The Filet O Fish and
[00:00:14] Unknown:
you. You can have them too. And you can have it all at two for $6, like a Filet O Fish, Big Mac, 10 piece McNuggets, or large fries. Limited time only. Price and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer. Single item at regular price.
[00:00:30] Unknown:
At ADP, we work with more than 860,000 companies worldwide. That gives us a pretty good idea of how to help businesses grow stronger, whether it's through data insights that help you make informed decisions about building a team that works better as a team or by keeping you ahead of thousands of changing regulations so you can keep ahead of everything else, like building that better team. Grow stronger with ADP, HR talent, time, and payroll.
[00:01:19] Unknown:
Come in. Welcome. I'm e g Marshall. Psychoanalysis is said by analysts mainly and feebly as well to be a science, but it is also an art. It is not enough to have read all the books, passed all the examinations, served one's apprenticeship, and undergone analysis oneself. The analyst must have more than education and training. There must be, besides and beyond all that, a distinct talent, a feeling for the work.
[00:01:58] Unknown:
Exactly as in painting a picture,
[00:02:01] Unknown:
writing a book, or composing a symphony. Our mystery drama, The Golden Chalices, was written especially for the mystery theater by Elspeth Eric and stars Norman Rose and Carmen Matthews. It is sponsored in part by Luden's medicated cough drops and True Value Hardware stores. I'll be back shortly with act one. The core of psychoanalysis is the transference. That is the transference to the analyst of all the patient's feelings. Hostile as well as friendly. Murderous as well as loving. And it is midway in the evolution
[00:03:13] Unknown:
drop, I think.
[00:03:18] Unknown:
Oh, I'm late. Oh, do come in. Oh, thank you very much. If you'll excuse me, I'll, I'll tell the doctor you're here. Oh, of course. He'll be right with you. Thank you very much. I'm sure.
[00:03:31] Unknown:
Well, well, miss Ross. Oh, I know. I'm late. I'm I'm so sorry. As a rule, you're so prompt. It is not like you to be late. Well, I'm late because I come into the study. You,
[00:03:42] Unknown:
feel as though you would like to lie on the couch today? First, I wanna explain about being late. I stopped on my way to buy these.
[00:03:50] Unknown:
Ah, daffodils. The first of the year. The sign that spring is coming.
[00:03:55] Unknown:
I brought them for you. For me?
[00:03:58] Unknown:
Why should you be bringing me a gift? Well, because I wanted to.
[00:04:02] Unknown:
You've been so good to me. Oh, not at all. Taking me on as a patient when I hardly had any money. Oh, I I know what you usually charge, doctor, and it's 10 times what I'm paying you. It was our agreement. But you didn't have to do it. And I'm so grateful. They are lovely, aren't they? Oh, yes. They're like chalices, aren't they? 12 little gold chalices.
[00:04:27] Unknown:
Very like.
[00:04:29] Unknown:
Why did I say chalices? I've never used that word before in my life. I should have said cups, shouldn't I? Chalice is a lovely word. But it's it's kind of a Catholic word, isn't it? It's what Christ drank out of, at the last supper. I should have said cup. Why? Well, because I'm Jewish. Are you Jewish, doctor Van Vorder? No. Are you Catholic? My parents were Catholic. I am not. Well, then why'd you run away from Hitler? If you don't mind telling me. My wife is Jewish.
[00:05:04] Unknown:
Oh. Come. Let's get back to why you brought me these 12 golden chalices. I told you why. I'm grateful to you. Nothing else?
[00:05:13] Unknown:
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
[00:05:16] Unknown:
Tell me, have you had any dreams since our last session? I never dream. I told you that. Everyone dreams. Not me. Dreams give us one way to clear the rubbish out of our minds.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
Is that why I'm so neurotic? Because my mind is full of rubbish? Very valuable rubbish. Nobody ever thought anything about me was valuable.
[00:05:39] Unknown:
Did you ever think anything about you could be valuable? I guess I never do. And so you chose a sweetheart who would reinforce your own opinion of yourself. Isn't that so? I always pick the wrong man. No. No. You always have the wrong opinion that you have not value. Till that opinion is righted, you will go on picking the wrong man.
[00:06:04] Unknown:
I see.
[00:06:07] Unknown:
I guess.
[00:06:08] Unknown:
I would like to go back to the daffodils, the 12 little golden cups, and why you brought them to me.
[00:06:16] Unknown:
I just thought they'd look nice here. That is all? They won't if you don't put them in water pretty soon. You only thought they would look nice here? Oh, it's such a gloomy room. I I I didn't mean that the way it sounded. I mean, I didn't mean it's it's gloomy. I just meant
[00:06:34] Unknown:
Yes. You meant?
[00:06:37] Unknown:
It's very nice here. And you are very nice. And you're kind and and gentle and good to me and I just wanted to bring you something pretty. Yes. But why 12 little golden cups? I don't know. Because they're pretty. Because I thought you'd like them. Oh, I don't know why I brought them. I'm sorry I did. Look. I I can't stay here any longer today. The hour is not yet up. I can't help it. Look. I have to go home. I'm so upset.
[00:07:18] Unknown:
Well, as you like. I'll be back next week, and I won't be late.
[00:07:24] Unknown:
And I won't bring you anything, and I'll try to behave better. You think you behaved badly? I don't know, didn't I? Did I I just don't have to get out of here. Forgive me, please.
[00:07:42] Unknown:
Lily, please, will you come here? Yes, Hans. Lily Lily, put these in water, will you? Oh, how sweet. How lovely. A gift from little miss Ross. Ah, well, we make progress slowly.
[00:08:01] Unknown:
A nice girl, is she? Ah, yes. Very nice.
[00:08:05] Unknown:
Very lost.
[00:08:08] Unknown:
I'll put these in a vase, and then supper will be ready when you are.
[00:08:13] Unknown:
She said the daffodils look like 12 golden cups.
[00:08:17] Unknown:
12 golden cups.
[00:08:20] Unknown:
Well, they do, don't they?
[00:08:23] Unknown:
Oh, Hans. It takes me back
[00:08:27] Unknown:
to Hungary. Those last days. No. No, my dear. Those last days. Well, they were the last days. Don't try to bring them back. Still, it is interesting, isn't it, that she should have brought me 12 golden cups?
[00:08:51] Unknown:
Isn't that wonderful, doctor Van Vorder? I actually had a dream. Yes. Very helpful. And I remembered it. Tell me the dream again, please. Well, there was this man sitting in this chair. As I am sitting? I guess so. Well, in the dream, I went up to him where he was sitting, and I climbed onto his lap. And he said, kiss me, darling. I put my arms around his neck. And then
[00:09:24] Unknown:
Yes. And then?
[00:09:26] Unknown:
Oh, and comes the sad part. Because I was so happy until then. What happened to spoil your happiness? Well, just as I was going to kiss him, he he turned his face away, and he said
[00:09:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:09:48] Unknown:
He turned his face away as though he was disgusted. And he said, go away. You're our nuisance. I woke up. I was crying.
[00:10:02] Unknown:
What did the man look like?
[00:10:04] Unknown:
I couldn't see his face. I told her the room was dark. Dark.
[00:10:08] Unknown:
Would you say gloomy?
[00:10:11] Unknown:
Oh, you could say gloomy, I guess. Like this room? What?
[00:10:15] Unknown:
Last week, you called this room gloomy. You said you brought the daffodils because this room is gloomy.
[00:10:23] Unknown:
Did I say that? Mhmm. I don't remember saying that. I remember. Then why don't I remember? Because you choose not to. Well, why would I choose
[00:10:37] Unknown:
I'm getting all mixed up. Now try to relax and say whatever comes to mind.
[00:10:42] Unknown:
Are you trying to make me say that the man in the chair
[00:10:46] Unknown:
was you? I am not trying to make you say anything but what is on your mind. You mean you said kiss me, darling? I can't imagine you saying anything like that. Except in your dream. Go back to the latter part of the dream after you started to kiss the man in the chair.
[00:11:05] Unknown:
Oh,
[00:11:06] Unknown:
the not so nice part. Yes. The not so nice part. Well, I started to kiss him because he had asked me to. You understand? By myself, I never would have done it. But he asked me to kiss him, and I started to. And when he turned away when he said, go away. You're a pest. And the sad part was that he said it just at that particular moment, just when just when I was feeling so happy and so loving. Just just a moment. Excuse me.
[00:11:41] Unknown:
He said you are a pest.
[00:11:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:11:46] Unknown:
Just as I'd started to kiss him. Before you told me, he said go away. You are a nuisance. Now you say
[00:11:54] Unknown:
pest. Why? What's the difference? Nuisance, pest. They mean the same thing. What hurt was it? He didn't want me around.
[00:12:05] Unknown:
I annoyed him. Have I ever made you feel that you annoyed me? Oh, no. Never. Then who did?
[00:12:14] Unknown:
My father. Oh, he never said that I annoyed him. He never called me a pest.
[00:12:23] Unknown:
It's just the way he made me feel. And feelings are what we are coming to grips with here. Well, that's the end of the hour. Next week, same time. Yes?
[00:12:41] Unknown:
Hans?
[00:12:42] Unknown:
Oh, yes, Lily.
[00:12:44] Unknown:
What are you doing here?
[00:12:46] Unknown:
Just sitting? Oh, just thinking.
[00:12:49] Unknown:
Goulash for supper with pahogne. Ah, good. Are you worried about something? Not worried. No.
[00:12:58] Unknown:
What then? I I am thinking about a dream that a patient told me. In the dream, she climbed onto a man's lap. The man said, kiss me. But as she started to kiss him, he turned away in disgust and said, go away. You are a nuisance. At least that is the way my patient told it to me at first. And then later, when I asked her to repeat the dream to me, she quoted the man as saying, go away. You are a pest. So, Lily, what does that suggest to you?
[00:13:36] Unknown:
An unhappy person?
[00:13:38] Unknown:
Should it suggest something else? Well, this was the first time my patient had been able to remember a gene, which indicated to me that the transference was beginning to take form and shape. Yes. More important than that, I appeared in the dream. Oh, she denied that the man could be myself, that I could ever be so cruel or so intimate either. But it was quite clear to me that that it was myself in the dream. Myself as the good father who asked his daughter to kiss him, then as the cruel and, arbitrary father who said, go away. You are a nuisance
[00:14:17] Unknown:
or a pest.
[00:14:19] Unknown:
When the patient begins to put the analyst in her dreams, we may be pretty sure the analysis is making progress.
[00:14:26] Unknown:
Hans, really, the goulash will be spoiled. Hadn't we best continue this at the dinner table? Lily, one second. One second.
[00:14:34] Unknown:
Now, does nothing sound familiar to you in the few spoken words of this dream? Kiss me, and you are a pest. I
[00:14:49] Unknown:
you mean kiss pesh? Our Kispest in Hungary?
[00:14:55] Unknown:
It is just a notion, of course. The patient who had the dream knows nothing of Hungary, of of you and me or Kispest.
[00:15:03] Unknown:
Where you and I were born, where we went to school, where we fell in love. Where we married?
[00:15:09] Unknown:
Where?
[00:15:11] Unknown:
Oh, Hans. Perhaps I should not ask, but was this patient little miss Ross? Yes. It was. But she is the one who brought you the daffodils? Yes. And she called them 12 golden cups? Yes, Lily. That is right. But when you and I were married in Kiespesh, my parents gave us Yes. 12 solid gold goblets. 12 golden cups.
[00:15:41] Unknown:
Interesting. Is it not?
[00:15:43] Unknown:
Well, is it possible that the cups are still there?
[00:15:50] Unknown:
Oh, now now. It could be true, couldn't it? They are not there. We looked, didn't we? After the war, we dug all around the cherry tree at my father's house, and they were not there. Your father might have moved them, mightn't he, before the Nazis took him away? That was all more than thirty years ago, Lily. Who knows what happened to them? But if they exist somewhere, they must exist somewhere, mustn't they? It's probably in the mention of some high German official. But perhaps not.
[00:16:18] Unknown:
Perhaps when the Germans came, your father found another hiding place for him. Perhaps this patient is is trying
[00:16:28] Unknown:
to tell you Now, Lily, you are not to indulge in such fantasies.
[00:16:33] Unknown:
But you know how much those golden goblets meant to me. Not just because they were beautiful and valuable, but because my parents gave them to me. Oh, if only your little miss Roth.
[00:16:48] Unknown:
Lily, even if it were possible, and it is not possible for miss Roth to know anything of the whereabouts of 12 golden chalices, I am not going to try to make some sort of Delphic oracle of my patient. Welfare, not ours. So let us not talk about it anymore. Come. Let us go have our goulash.
[00:17:26] Unknown:
We said earlier that psychoanalysis is not simply a science, that it partakes of the nature of an art, and this is true. We did not say, however, that it partakes of the nature of magic. No. We did not say that and we do not mean to imply that. But is it not possible that what appears to be magical may in truth be both scientific and artistic? I'll be back shortly with act two. Young Mary Roth brought a dozen daffodils to her analyst doctor von Fodor calling them 12 golden chalices. The following week, she brought him a dream in which a man asked her to kiss him, but then said to her, go away. You are a pest.
Doctor told all this to his wife. She thought of 12 golden goblets, which had been her parents gift at the time of her marriage in a small Hungarian town called Kispest. Now it is a week later.
[00:18:49] Unknown:
Yes?
[00:18:52] Unknown:
Hans,
[00:18:52] Unknown:
may I speak with you? Lily, please. Am I to have no rest at all between one patient and the next?
[00:18:58] Unknown:
You're expecting miss Robb, aren't you? Yes. That's why I wanted to talk to you. I I want to tell you what I propose to do. Lily, what is it? I want to write to your sister in Kiespesh. But you write to Elizabeth regularly, don't you? Yeah. But this is different. I want to ask her to have the gardener
[00:19:18] Unknown:
dig all around the cherry tree. Lily, we did all that before. When the family, what was left of it, moved back to Kiespesh after the war, the first thing they did was dig around the cherry tree to find the gold cups, and they were not there. Someone had found them and taken them. Is it not perfectly clear that this is what happened? But little miss Roth, the dream originated in her head. The daffodils were purchased with her money and brought here in her hands. Now I forbid you to write to Elizabeth. Or if you write, say nothing at all about the golden cups or the chariot. Do you understand me? Now that is miss Roth. I'll let her in. Say nothing to her about any of this.
[00:20:08] Unknown:
You hear? I hear. I hear.
[00:20:12] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. Coming. Miss Roth. Hello, missus Vonfroeder. I I'm not late, am I? I don't think so. The doctor is in his study. I've brought him something.
[00:20:26] Unknown:
Maybe I better give them to you because men are very careless about such things and these really need to be put in water. Really? What are these? They look like bare branches, don't they? But they're not. If you put them in water, they'll bloom.
[00:20:40] Unknown:
It's called forcing, and it's fun. Lizzie, what is going on here? What is the delay?
[00:20:45] Unknown:
Miss Roth brought us some branches. She says if we put them in water,
[00:20:51] Unknown:
they will bloom. Well, what kind of branches? They're from a cherry tree.
[00:20:55] Unknown:
A cherry tree? I'll put them in water right away. Then I'll write no. I'll send a cable, Hans, to your sister, Elizabeth.
[00:21:12] Unknown:
You want to lie down on the couch? What do you prefer, miss Ross? Oh, I don't need the couch, doctor van Froedter.
[00:21:18] Unknown:
As a matter of fact, I don't need you. That's what I came to tell you. Uh-huh.
[00:21:23] Unknown:
Now that is good news. Every analyst waits for the day when his patient will say, I do not need you anymore.
[00:21:30] Unknown:
Well, I don't need you.
[00:21:33] Unknown:
Rather an abrupt change, isn't it, from a young girl who was so dependent on her old doctor? I guess it is sudden.
[00:21:40] Unknown:
Or maybe I never needed you at all. I just thought I did. Is there a difference? You're mixing me all up. I apologize.
[00:21:48] Unknown:
Well, now since this is to be your last hour with me, tell me something. Why did you buy me a branch from a cherry tree? Oh, I didn't buy it. I took it. Took it?
[00:22:00] Unknown:
Stole it.
[00:22:01] Unknown:
I guess that's the right word for it. You stole the branch from the cherry tree? Why?
[00:22:06] Unknown:
No special reason. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. From where did you steal it? From a cherry tree on somebody's big old lawn near a big old house in the suburbs. Aren't you going to ask me what I was doing on the lawn of somebody's big old house in the suburbs? What were you doing there? I was with him. He took me to meet his parents. By him, you mean I mean him. The man I thought was so terrible. The man I thought didn't love me. The man who nearly drove me crazy so I came running to you begging you to take me on as a patient. That very man.
Incredible, isn't it? Yes. But it's true. He called me up yesterday just when I was feeling depressed beyond recognition, and he said he had his parents' car and how would I like to drive out to the suburbs to meet them. Well, that could only mean one thing.
[00:23:11] Unknown:
What was that?
[00:23:13] Unknown:
Why did he wanted to marry me, of course? That's what it always means. I see. In the car, he told me over and over how much he loved me. But he had told you that before. Oh, this was different. This time, he's taking me to meet his parents. Did he say anything about a marriage? No. Not then. Later? No. No. No. That'll all come after a while. His parents were very nice. They liked me. I could tell they did. I had a very good time, and I didn't feel self conscious or unsure, not one bit. Actually, I stole the branch off the cherry tree because I felt like it.
[00:23:54] Unknown:
I felt so bold. Why did you not ask the parents of the young men to give you a branch off the cherry tree?
[00:24:02] Unknown:
I don't know. I'm sure they would have. But you'll notice, I hope, that I didn't come running to you full of guilt about the terrible thing I did the way I used to.
[00:24:17] Unknown:
Doesn't that show you how well I am? I wish you every happiness. I know you do. And you know that if you need me, I'm here. I know. Thank you. Come. Let me see you to the door and speed you on your way since this is the last time you'll need me. Oh, it is. Young ladies do sometimes have problems after marriage, you know, as well as before. I suppose.
[00:24:38] Unknown:
Oh, miss Roe? Oh, yes, missus Van Gogh. Oh, Lily. I I wonder would you do me a great favor? I have here a cable that I'd like to send to my sister-in-law in Hungary. Lily. A little town, a suburb of Budapest. It's called Kis Pesht. If you would pass by a cable office on your way, would you send it for me? Of course. Lily. Here it is. All written out. And here is the money. I know what the charges are.
[00:25:05] Unknown:
Alright? Of course. Mister, offer is no necessity for you to Oh, listen. I do pass the telegraph office on my way home. There's one next door to where I live as a matter of fact. Quite a coincidence. So I'll be happy. Thank you. Thank you It's a worry off my mind Doctor. VanFodor,
[00:25:22] Unknown:
thank you for everything Nothing to thank me for
[00:25:25] Unknown:
Well, I won't argue with you Not on my last visit Missus Vomphotore, don't worry about your cable. It'll go out tonight. Oh, you're very kind. I'm happy to do it. Goodbye. Goodbye, miss Vomphot.
[00:25:37] Unknown:
Goodbye.
[00:25:42] Unknown:
Her last visit did she say?
[00:25:45] Unknown:
Lily, how could you how could you send that cable to Elizabeth just because miss Rolfe came here with a branch from a cherry tree? I'm sure means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Now what did the cable say? Not that I do not know already.
[00:26:01] Unknown:
Dig again under cherry tree new information about golden cups. Information.
[00:26:07] Unknown:
We have had no information about the gold cups nor will we ever have any. The girl bringing the daffodils,
[00:26:13] Unknown:
calling them golden chalices. The dream she had about the man saying first, kiss me and then, you are a pest, which adds up to kiss pest where our gold cups were buried beneath a cherry tree.
[00:26:30] Unknown:
Then your miss Ross shows up here with a cherry tree branch. You call that information? Making wild deductions from dreams and pieces of words and chance gifts. Chance.
[00:26:40] Unknown:
The girl knows something. Or she doesn't know that she knows heavens. She was not even born when we buried the gold cups beneath the cherry tree in Guy Spesh, but she knows something. You said yourself that a communication can build up between a doctor and his patient so that each can often sense what the other is thinking and feeling. I did not mean anything like this fairy tale stuff you're dreaming about. But somehow, she knows. Oh, silly Lily. That's why I gave the cablegram to her. She should send it. I could have sent it myself, but this way, her touch will be upon it. Lily, stop it. In God's name, stop it. If there is a chance that my beautiful cups are still buried beneath the cherry tree Lily, there is no chance.
[00:27:26] Unknown:
And you should not be thinking about the gold cups or Hungary. We are here, Lily, and this is now.
[00:27:36] Unknown:
I'm sorry, Hans.
[00:27:37] Unknown:
It's alright. I only hope you did not take my mind off little miss Roth's analysis. I hope I gave her full value because because I confess I too had strange flutterings of hope that her dream fantasies might mean something for us, that we might, in this weird, altogether bizarre manner, find our lost golden chalices.
[00:28:04] Unknown:
What did the girl mean when she said her last visit? What? When she was saying her goodbyes, at one point, she said, I won't argue with you
[00:28:16] Unknown:
on my last visit. What did that mean? Oh, that. Well, it seems her young man does love her after all. He took her to meet his parents. He told her many times he loved her. In fact, he did everything she hoped he would do except propose. She is sure that he will propose very soon, but it is my opinion that she still has her doubts and is very angry that he should delay the proposal. That is why in revenge for his cruelty, she stole the branch from the cherry tree. Stole it? It was a threat to the young man that she was capable of dark and terrible deeds if he did not do the right thing by her. Oh, Hans.
[00:28:58] Unknown:
Come. Let's have dinner. It's chicken paprikash.
[00:29:10] Unknown:
The symbolism of dreams, pieces of words chance gifts fairy tale stuff should such things give us flutterings of hope that something very desirable is about to alter our fates? I think not. I think we should be stern, face reality with courage day after day after day. Yes. That is what we should do. But do we do it? No. I'll be back shortly with act three. Little miss Roth left her analyst's office in a state of euphoria because her young man had taken her to meet his parents. A sign, at least to her, that he would soon propose marriage. With her, she took a message written out by her doctor's wife to send by cable to the doctor's sister in the small Hungarian town of Kispest.
As we resume our story, it is a month later. Are you tired, Hans?
[00:30:28] Unknown:
Yes. A little. You're not eating much?
[00:30:31] Unknown:
I'm thinking really.
[00:30:34] Unknown:
About your former patient?
[00:30:36] Unknown:
Which former patient?
[00:30:37] Unknown:
Little miss Rock.
[00:30:39] Unknown:
No. Perhaps by now, she's on her honeymoon.
[00:30:42] Unknown:
Hans, I'm sorry I behaved so stupidly
[00:30:47] Unknown:
about miss Rock. Oh, that's all in the past.
[00:30:50] Unknown:
Perhaps I was jealous, envious of her youth, her charm. That was probably what made me lose my mind a little. It is all in the past. I was somehow determined to make her responsible for the fact that I'm 60 years old and no longer the girl you married. The girl whose parents gave her 12 golden cups for a wedding present. I felt I think I felt she owed it to me to get me back, my gold cups. What I really wanted to get back was my youth and the ability to look forward, not back.
[00:31:30] Unknown:
Oh, Lenny, it is a very admirable analysis. I'm proud of you.
[00:31:36] Unknown:
You give me courage to tell you something. I got a letter this morning from Elizabeth. Oh. They dug under the cherry tree for the second time. And? They found nothing.
[00:31:53] Unknown:
So someone did steal the golden cups. It must be so. Just as miss Roch stole the branch from the cherry tree. Hans, Hans,
[00:32:01] Unknown:
are you beginning to believe in the same nonsense you approached me for?
[00:32:06] Unknown:
Come now, my darling. It is just interesting sometimes to muse upon these coincidences. Don't tell me that's the way you conduct an analysis. Well, that is not so different. Sometimes we are right, sometimes not. Oh, the phone. I'll get in. No. No. No. Stay where you are. You have not finished eating. I have. Yes. Doctor Von Voder here. Doctor Von Voder,
[00:32:31] Unknown:
this is Mary Ross. Mary Ross? You remember me, don't you? Oh, please remember me. I do remember you. Doctor, I need to see you so badly.
[00:32:41] Unknown:
I know this is an awful time to ask you. You're probably at dinner. No. No. It's alright. I had finished. Can you come over right now? Oh, yes. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I'll I'll be right there.
[00:32:58] Unknown:
Liar and a cheat. He never meant to marry me at all. He just did all those things, taking me to meet his parents. He wanted to make me love him so I so that he could toss me aside laugh at me make me feel ashamed and humiliated
[00:33:22] Unknown:
That may have been his reason or it may have been that he is just a very callow, very insensitive young man who believed he was justified in doing anything to achieve mastery over a young woman. It is a common belief. Your young man is not so unusual.
[00:33:38] Unknown:
Not my young man. Not anymore.
[00:33:41] Unknown:
I'm happy to hear that.
[00:33:42] Unknown:
I don't know how I ever could have loved him.
[00:33:45] Unknown:
I wouldn't wish to force you to any conclusion, but you have already had some analysis. So I will ask you, who else in your life has sent you gifts, given you treats, encouraged your affection, even forced his affection on you, only to reject you when you sought to return his love? Can you think of anyone?
[00:34:08] Unknown:
I know what you want me to say.
[00:34:12] Unknown:
My father. I do not want you to say anything you do not believe.
[00:34:19] Unknown:
I do believe what I
[00:34:21] Unknown:
said. Are you feeling a little better now?
[00:34:25] Unknown:
A little.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
We've almost come to the end of the hour. But, I wish to say one thing more. Why did you bring me the bunch of lilacs? Oh,
[00:34:38] Unknown:
are you going to start all that again? I must. Can I bring you a little present now and then? I don't do it all the time. You pay your bills. You owe me no more than that. I didn't bring the lilacs because I thought I owed you anything. I bought them because Yes. Because?
[00:34:54] Unknown:
Because I wanted to. No. That will not serve as a reason. Not anymore. We must have something more specific. Did you bring the lilacs as a sort of peace offering? Did you think I was angry that you stopped coming to see me? Or were you angry that I had been right, more right anyway than you had been about the young man? Maybe something like that. I want you to think about it. It is important for us to know why you have these impulses to give me something. You remember the daffodils and the branch of the cherry tree? I remember. And now the lilacs.
Why?
[00:35:35] Unknown:
I'll think about it.
[00:35:37] Unknown:
I'm sorry, doctor Van Fotel. There's nothing to be sorry for. There is no harm done. But unless you can analyze your reasons, you must stop bringing the gifts. You understand?
[00:35:51] Unknown:
I think so. Good.
[00:35:53] Unknown:
Now we have come to the end of the hour. Thank you for seeing me. Do you want to come back?
[00:36:00] Unknown:
I'd like to.
[00:36:02] Unknown:
For for a few weeks maybe. Then I'll reserve the hour for you. Thank you, doctor. Not at all. See you next week. Yes.
[00:36:11] Unknown:
Goodbye.
[00:36:13] Unknown:
Oh, my my my. Life is not so simple. Lily? Lily?
[00:36:21] Unknown:
Yes, hon?
[00:36:22] Unknown:
Look. There are some lilacs here. Will you put them in water?
[00:36:31] Unknown:
He called me. He wanted me to go out with him
[00:36:35] Unknown:
and I did. No reason not to go out with him. Oh, doctor von Fodor,
[00:36:40] Unknown:
I'm still very, well,
[00:36:44] Unknown:
attracted to him. He is doubtless a very attractive young man, or you would not have bothered with him in the first place. Do you mean that? Of course, I mean it. Else, I would not say it.
[00:36:55] Unknown:
I feel as though you just forgave me for something. For being attracted to an attractive young man?
[00:37:02] Unknown:
Something like that. As though you had done something dreadful? Yes. It is the end of the hour. Next week, we will pick up our conversation where we leave off today.
[00:37:18] Unknown:
I went out with him again. He's really very good looking. I love to look at him. And he's, you know, a wonderful conversationalist. I mean, he always has something to say. Sometimes he's very witty. He makes me laugh
[00:37:34] Unknown:
and I like that. Of course. Why not? Well, we've come to the end of the hour, same time next week.
[00:37:44] Unknown:
He gave me a present, a compact. Imagine. He doesn't even know that girls don't use compacts anymore. Me? I don't even use makeup of any kind. You'd think he would have noticed that by now. Does it hurt you that he did not notice? To? Oh, no. No. It doesn't. It just makes me think he's kind of dumb. And he's not so sophisticated as he thinks he is either. Or he'd know that girls don't carry compacts. Naturally, I didn't tell him that. Why didn't you? Oh, I wouldn't wanna hurt his feelings. No. No. That's not why. It's because I felt sorry for him for being so dumb.
Anyway, I'll find a way to let him know that it was a dumb thing to do. You will have your revenge. Is that it? Oh, no. Not Anyway, I think he's too old for me. I asked him. I came right out and asked him. And why not? Well, because I I don't ordinarily do that sort of thing. I'm usually afraid people will think I'm fresh or or pushy or whatever. Anyway, I ask him. And you know what, doctor? He'll be 30 next month. Imagine 30.
[00:39:12] Unknown:
You have a good appetite. Yes? Yes. Wonderful. We eat more and more all the time. Will you still
[00:39:18] Unknown:
love me when I'm fat?
[00:39:21] Unknown:
Remember a month ago when you had hardly any appetite at all? Oh, it was never that bad. I thought perhaps it was because of your failure
[00:39:30] Unknown:
with little miss Ross. Well, perhaps it was. Nobody likes to fail.
[00:39:34] Unknown:
But now she's back. How is it going? Well enough. She doesn't bring you any more daffodils or cherry blooms or lilacs?
[00:39:44] Unknown:
No. She is afraid to analyze why she ever brought them in the first place. Do you know why? Of course. It is not hard. Why? Now, now. I'm not going to discuss miss Roth with you. I will not tell you why she brings me flowers any more than I will tell her. She must discover why by herself.
[00:40:05] Unknown:
And will she? Of course.
[00:40:07] Unknown:
She's achieving a beautiful honesty about herself. Well,
[00:40:11] Unknown:
as long as she's getting better. Oh, yes. Definitely. Then
[00:40:16] Unknown:
I can tell you something. Since when have you hesitated to tell me anything? Well,
[00:40:21] Unknown:
I did not want to interfere with miss Roth's analysis
[00:40:24] Unknown:
the way I did before. You do not have to be afraid of interfering. Hans, I did something. Yes. What did you do?
[00:40:31] Unknown:
A month ago. Right after miss Roth came back into analysis. Oh, I hate to tell you, but
[00:40:38] Unknown:
I must. Yes, Lily. You must. What did you do? I wrote to Elizabeth.
[00:40:45] Unknown:
Yes.
[00:40:47] Unknown:
You remember the lilacs? Of course, I remember.
[00:40:50] Unknown:
Oh, Lily, you didn't owe Lily. I couldn't help it. I so wanted to get back my 12 golden cups. So I wrote to Elizabeth, and I told her to dig under the lilac bushes. At the place in Kispesh has no lilac bushes. I know. But right next door, almost on her property, right at the edge in back, there are three
[00:41:12] Unknown:
lilac bushes. Oh, she didn't. You're not going to tell me that she she went? Yes. Yes. She did. She
[00:41:19] Unknown:
well, here's the letter. Read it.
[00:41:24] Unknown:
Dearest Lily, you can imagine how I hated to go to the people next door. They are not friends, acquaintances only. But your letter was so insistent, so frantic. Oh, Lily Go on reading. So frantic that I had to do it, if only to relieve your mind. The neighbors were most obliging. Perhaps they thought me a dirty old lady to be humored. Well, Lily, dear, if that is what they thought, they soon they soon changed because because buried under the lilac bush is only about a fourth pin of the surface, where they must have lain since father put him there before the Nazis took him away, there were the 12 golden chalices.
I cannot express to you my emotion upon seeing them.
[00:42:20] Unknown:
Who comes closer to the truth? The scientist or the artist? Well, is it really necessary to state so flatly that there is only one place where truth can be found and only one way to find it? I think not. Truth lies all around us. It is not hiding from us. It is we who hide from the truth. How long will it be before we pause to listen to our scientists and to our artists? How long before we listen to the truth? I'll be back shortly. I hope I have not sounded either smug or pompous when I have spoken of the search for truth and the long and various roads by which it may be reached For I am like you, like everyone terrified of finding that which I seek evading constantly that which I look for like you, like everyone
[00:43:24] Unknown:
a coward.
[00:43:25] Unknown:
But what is it one poet said, coward, take my coward's hand. Our cast included Norman Rose, Jada Rowland, and Carmen Matthews. The entire production was under the direction of Hyman Brown. Radio mystery theater was sponsored in part by Allstate Insurance Companies and Buick Motor Division. This is EG Marshall inviting you to return to our mystery theater for another adventure in the macabre. Until next time, pleasant dreams.
[00:44:07] Unknown:
The preceding program produced by CBS radio. Dial a set for news with John Wingate.
[00:44:13] Unknown:
This is Barry Farber. Join us immediately following the 08:00 news right here over WOR New York, the talk of New York.
