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Join me today for Episode 336 of Bitcoin And . . . Jack Spirko


Topics for today:

• Permaculture
• Preparedness
• Bitcoin
• Podcasting
• Edge Effect

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[00:00:00] David Bennett:

Good morning. This is David Bennett, and this is Bitcoin Hand, a podcast where I try to find the edge effect between the worlds of Bitcoin, gaming, permaculture,   podcasting, and education to gain a better understanding of all. Edge effect is is a concept from ecology describing a greater diversity of life where the edges of two systems overlap. While species from either system can be found at the edge, it is important to note there are species in the overlap that exist in neither system, and that is what I seek to uncover. So join me in discovering the variety of things being created as Bitcoin rubs up against other systems.   It is 06:21AM   Central Standard Time. It's the 12/09/2020.  

Today is episode 336   of Bitcoin, and this is,   interview with Jack Spearko,   the host of the podcast,   the survival podcast.   Now I got a a fairly long history with listening to the survival podcast,   Probably starting back in 2013,   I'm thinking.   This guy's been doing this podcast for like thirteen years.   And, you know, don't get set off by the survival podcast. Okay? This dude is not   this is not your bunker guy.   This is not your waiting for the zombal revolution.   You know? This is not the dude   who who just stacks MREs   and and shit like that. He's got real practical advice   about, you know, preparedness   and other other things on his podcast. But one of the other things is permaculture, which   and and it wasn't just   as you'll find out in the interview,   I kind of pulled finally pulled the trigger on buying Bitcoin because of Jack Spear Co. I, you know, and you'll hear this. I'd heard about it   and it takes a couple of hits in the face before   you get off your ass and you do something.  

And this and Bitcoin for me,   it was exactly that way. It took a couple of punches in the face. And,   you know, listening to the survival podcast, you know, part of his preparedness plan, you know, plans are,   savings,   you   know,   sound money.   The the funny thing about permaculture is that   a lot of what you guys   read and and listen to, like Nassim Taleb, the notion of antifragility,   the notion of brittleness,   time horizons,   you know, the the that kind of thing.   Before I even got into Bitcoin, I knew about all that because I was coming out of permaculture.   I I know it it the thing about it is for me, it's kind of   it's very interesting   that this is for in my case,   maybe it wasn't that I fell down the rabbit hole.  

In my I've been thinking about this since the interview. I kind of went through the looking glass   because this is sort of a mirror image.   Bitcoin and and what the Bitcoiners think about is, like, damn near a mirror image.   Not an not antithetical,   but just a reversed image   of the world that I came out of, which was, you know, I was listening to a lot of people talk about permaculture, regenerative agriculture,   you know, holistic management,   aquaponics,   aquaculture,   microponics,   aeroponics,   you name it, man. If it had something to do with growing protein or plants,   you know, I was all over it. And yet all these people talked about was the exact same thing that Bitcoiners talk about all the time.  

And that that was pretty much what spurred me to get Jack Spiritko on the show.   I have a great amount of respect for this gentleman, and I hope you have it you know, I hope you get a lot out of this one.   We talked for an hour and twenty minutes, and I could barely   touch   all the stuff that I wanted to go over. And we could have selected   one part of just we talk about well, we talk about permaculture preparedness   and podcasting. I had to completely x out the entire section I had planned on education,   because it there just wasn't any there wasn't any time. I could have talked to this dude for, like, three straight hours, and we never would have gotten finished   with one part of permaculture if if we had, you know, if we had wanted to because it's that deep.  

We could have talked about preparedness for a lot, you know, for just as long because the the notion of preparedness is that deep.   So   given that we go over a couple of, you know, different topics,   I'm trying to drag them back to Bitcoin. And but even if the you know, even if dragging it back to Bitcoin   doesn't do as much for you as anything else, then, you know, take away some of the things from, you know, how to think about landscapes, how to think of because you like in permaculture, you don't have to have acreage   to do some of the things that are, quote, unquote, permacultry.  

And you'll find that one out in this episode too. So,   I hope you enjoy it. I hope you take a lot away from it. If you wanna support this show,   please   get a Sphinx chat.   Honestly, it's the easiest way. It literally is the easiest way because you can listen to this. You can listen to this episode   on Sphinx chat and stream me satoshis   as low as one to something like one to three satoshis per minute and support this show at the same time   that you're listening to it. Okay? And so go to,   sphinx chat or sphinx.   Chat is where you can pick up everything that you need to know about how to do this.  

You can connect sphinx chat to your own lightning node. It's a little dicey.   Yeah.   But, yeah, there's you know,   it's an interesting exercise, you know, because you kinda gotta modify some JSON files and, you know, that kind of thing, you know, at the at the base level of your node. And if you're but if you're if you're weirded out about that, they have nodes that you can rent.   And, again, those those lightning nodes that you can rent, I rented mine for 4,000 satoshis, which for you know, and I rented it for the month,   which is well, at the time was 79¢,   which is and I think I bought it. I think I got my note around the same price that we're at right now, which is 18,321.  

Be aware, FUD is occurring in a very, very coordinated way right now. That's why you're seeing price drops.   You're seeing   some news come out about,   MicroStrategy.   You're seeing some other headlines.   I saw one yesterday   reiterating   the fact that Bitcoin is used by money laundering and, you know, for money laundering and all that kind of stuff. So, you know,   same shit, different day.   Anyway, again, if you wanna support the show, go to Sphinx chat or sphinx.chat.   Get the app. Join, join my tribe. You can find my tribe at tribes.sphinx.chat   and,   join my tribe, which, you know, will cost you a few satoshis.  

You can message me in the tribe for, like, I think, like, a couple of Satoshis,   and you can listen to the show   and stream me Satoshis in micro   payment format at the same time that you're listening to the show. And it's a great way to support not only my show, but a whole bunch of other Bitcoin shows. I'm trying to get Jack Speerko to put the the survival podcast on there because I kinda wanna start listening to his show again, but in the format where I can actually stream him value   while he streams me value because the survival podcast   to me has been very valuable.  

Go check it out, and we're gonna say   we're gonna say hello to Jack Spierko right about now.   Jack Spierko,   welcome to Bitcoin and how's it going, man? Good, man. Glad to be with you today.   Thank you.   I guess the   the the first part of this,   in in case,   like, my listeners probably don't know who you are.   And Okay. That's kinda sad because   the reason that I got into Bitcoin was you were you were the last   you were the last straw that dropped.   I'd heard about it, heard about it, heard about it, you know, read about it, and I just wasn't pulling the triggers. And I've, there was I can't remember. It was   must have been 2015.  

I was listening to you talk on your show, and you were like, dude, if you haven't done it by now, just grab some, learn how to use it, and and give me some and, you know, come support the podcast with it. And that's that's what I did. So I you know, the the people that that I'm kinda like you know, my audience is basically a bunch of Bitcoiners. And what I find fascinating about these guys   is that I came to Bitcoin   out of,   like, regenerative agriculture stuff, aquaculture,   permaculture.   I was like, I was   devouring everything that I could find on this stuff. I find your show,   and then   I pulled the trigger on Bitcoin because of that and then slipped into a completely different genre.  

Now I find that I'm in this genre,   and I see a lot of people who they're they talk about getting out of the cities. They they wanna start a farm. They wanna   they they're interested in meat and real food. And I'm like, oh my god. The collision between these two worlds is just   it's it's too important not to have somebody like Jack Spierko on to give the others for the Bitcoiners to give the other side of that world where I came from to get into their world,   if you see what I mean. So Mhmm.   You you were in the army. Can you, like, I don't know, go back into, like, your past a little bit and and tell the audience kinda   Jack who Jack Spiritko is and what you're about?  



[00:10:19] Unknown:

Great. You threw my own kind of question at me. Anyway,   yeah, I I was in the army a very, very long time ago, so long ago that probably have people listening who were not alive yet to this show.   It was back in the   very, very late eighties through early nineties.   I was a mechanic,   and   I focused   on my with my job troubleshooting more than anything else. So everything in my life from that point forward   became very systems orientated.   So what I mean by that is when you're a soldier and you're a mechanic, you think of it as a guy that, you know, fixes broken trucks. And sure you do, but a lot of times, those trucks are like a person that goes to the doctor, but it can't talk. Right? So the truck doesn't work. That's that's that's, you know, a good description of what an operator will tell you. It doesn't work. Oh, okay. Great. So then you gotta figure out what's wrong with it, and you can't ask it. So   whenever there's a a a problem in a vehicle, there's a great big manual called the technical manual in the military. All equipment that's maintained has one of these, and it says start here and go to there. And then if that doesn't get you the problem, then go to here. And it gives you a logical sequence starting at the beginning to the end.  

And, sure, there's times when you go, well, I know what's wrong. It needs a clutch, and you just you do it. But if you don't know what's wrong, you follow this troubleshooting procedure.   And that was really kind of my first introduction to systems thinking,   and I took that through sales and marketing through most of my career. My background is heavy into technology, computer hardware, network testing,   background is heavy into technology,   computer hardware, network testing, network infrastructure.   Later, as the dot com boom really kinda came on, I got into,   Internet marketing mainly as a sales VP for a company called Fluke Networks   because, well, we were in the middle of a recession, and they, you know, doubled my quota   without any help. So I was like, well, I have to start selling more stuff, getting more leads for my reps, etcetera.  

So I started learning about the Internet, and I started, you know, putting a lot more people in seats at things like seminars and stuff like that using that. Eventually, I decided that was a more interesting   life, and so I kinda took a step back with my income   and took a position in web marketing   for, like, a third of what I was making in sales just so I could be surrounded by people that did nothing else every day. And I did that   for a a a bit and then found a a gentleman that I formed a partnership with named Neil Franklin,   pretty switched on,   entrepreneur out of The UK, won the Branson award twice.  

So really kind of a high level guy. Worked with him for a number of years. And even with all of that, I just got to a point where I   could not take corporate America anymore. Like, all of the success I had,   every time I hit another level that I thought would make me happy, it may be just a little bit more miserable, a little bit more sick, and a little bit more fat.   And in all of it, I was rooted in this upbringing that I had   as a prepper when we didn't call it being a prepper. I grew up in a poor family, Col Region, Pennsylvania.   We had all of the things we think of as preparedness items because, well, if the power went out in the winter and you didn't, you were really freaking cold. I mean, it was that was that simple. We grew a garden because well food's expensive.  

We went hunting because well food's expensive.   And and that was always a grounding, and it pulled me back through all of the systems level thinking. I started doing my podcast back in 02/2008, so I've been doing it almost thirteen years now.   And   as soon as I did that, I I found permaculture.   And permaculture   became   kind of my guiding principle that I built my business on even though it's about something that seems different.   And and now I've been doing that about twelve years. So I don't know if that's a good answer, but that's an answer to your question leading in.  

[00:14:07] David Bennett:

No. That's fine, Jack. That's that's that's actually really good because that brings us,   right into,   permaculture.   You know, I've   I've got Bill Mollison's that that tome.   It sits   on my nightstand   staring at me going, dude, you couldn't even make it halfway through.   Because I get, like, I I get   I start looking at the at the diagrams in this thing, the the, you know, the pictures, this that there's Sorry about the designer manual?   Yeah. The permaculture design may designer's manual. And that thing I mean, just I can just get lost in looking at some of the figures because   of what this really means. So that leads me to the question,   what is permaculture?  

And more importantly   and I don't mean to sound uncaring the way that this is asked, but why should we care?  

[00:15:01] Unknown:

Okay.   Permaculture is   a system   a systems level design science is the best way to think about it. So when people first find permaculture,   they tend to see two things. One, hippies rolling around in the mud,   but we'll just call those people purple breeders and say that's really not what the whole thing was built on,   or they see it as, you know, like organic gardening maybe at another level or something like that. What permaculture really is is let's step back and look at how humans exist.   Let's work with nature rather than against it. Let's design systems   that provide all the things   that humans need   from a closed loop system that can sustain itself and actually   regenerate itself so that the land actually gets better, but so do the humans.  

Now   that's a very simplified version of it, you know, why should you care? Well,   because that.   Right? So the the the the fact that we can actually design systems   that in of themselves   are not just sustainable but regenerative   of the things that humans need to survive and thrive   is a pretty good reason to care about it.  

[00:16:17] David Bennett:

No. No. I I get yeah. I mean, I I mean, I get it, but it's like I've Yeah. You know, I've run into people where I say I say the word permaculture, and then they go,   They   and and then I I try to just touch on it just, I mean, real gently. You know? I I yeah. I've been in the in the Bitcoin discussions with people saying,   it's the greatest thing, whatever. And then they look at you sideways, and you kinda learn to not get so heavy handed.   And permaculture is sort of the same thing. They they I I get looked at sideways, and that's one of the reasons why,   you know, it's better if somebody else tells other people why you should care, especially with somebody that's got, you know, the experience that you have. And you you do have quite a bit of experience, I e,   your property up there in North Texas.  

And I kind of want to ask you, you know, when we talk about permaculture   as an example,   you've done quite a bit of permaculture   things upon your your land.   Could you kinda go through some of the things that you've done to your particular piece of Eden there?  

[00:17:29] Unknown:

Yeah. I am I I I've jokingly call myself a a a rock masochist. I I I want to grow food, and I want very vibrant   properties, so I tend to buy properties with no soil on them, which is very counterintuitive.   But, I mean, seriously, we found this place because   it was a steal economically, and it gave us all of the infrastructure we needed to do the things that we wanted to do. We wanted some land,   and we wanted land that laid nice. So I looked at properties that were you know, this is a three acre property. I looked at properties that were eight acres that were less usable than this property because they were a long narrow strip along a road. Right? So this was a nice, beautiful, laid out rectangle.   It was fenced and cross fenced. It had outbuildings.  

One huge outbuilding, one kind of mid so, like, I'm talking when I say huge, I'm like an 1,800 square foot insulated steel outbuilding,   800 square foot steel outbuilding,   2,500   square foot house, and I paid 205   for it. Right? So, I mean, like, when you find that it had some things that need to be done, but when you find that in this area, that's a steal. So we we settled on this property,   but nothing would grow. When I say nothing, I mean, I literally threw out plantain and dandelion seed that did not grow.   It was   it was desolate. There are places where there is two inches of soil and then it is rock slab.  

And so you wonder how do you transform that. Well, you do it with trees and you do it with animals.   And so we we looked at it and said, okay. This this property cannot support cattle,   and I don't wanna hate my life, so we will not do goats.   And some people love goats, but most people who get goats eventually kill them and eat them, and then they feel much better about goats by getting rid of them. So I decided I would do something completely insane, and I put a 50 ducks on my property.   Yeah. And then we manage them like cattle. We actually   put small because ducks you can fence in with a little two foot fence. So we put movable fencing in,   and we put them in one area for a week and another area for a week and another area for a week. We fed them really high quality food. We did some plantings. We did earthworks, which is something we could talk a little bit more about if if we need to. Yeah. But in a few years,   we caused this property to turn green.  

We caused things to start growing that, like, I didn't plant that. Where did that come from? And they're basically natural seed banks. Most people don't realize this, but there's literally via square foot of soil, there's probably 10,000 seeds there that aren't growing right now.   They're there, and they're looking for germination triggers, either disturbance or compaction   or fertility   or moisture   or temperature. Something will trigger that germination. Some of those seeds can lay there for ten, twenty, thirty more years without germinating. We think that they're really fragile, but they actually are nature's original survivors, and all of that started to kick in. And then we built a lot of other systems. So we built aquaponic systems. We built systems that are based on aquaculture, which are more of small ponds that are done in a raised   fashion, timber frame because I can't actually put a hole in the ground here because it is a a slab of rock. And we've turned the property around to the point where   when,   very well known,   restoration agricultureist and permaculture, Mark Shepherd, took a look at the before and after,   on the property of, the three quarter acre food forest we put in on our eastern edge,   he asked me to write the forward in his book. He was like, I I can't believe that you did that. Like, he knew what the property was and where it went. And it's not something you can explain to somebody in a in a short individual podcast how to do. The important thing is that it can be done. That that natural systems   do respond   to our guidance. And and that's another big part of what what permaculture is really about is understanding that it's not about just go out, get a bunch of trees, and plant them. Because if you plant them in a place where nature can't support them yet,   then all you do is spend money on dead sticks.  

And you you so you have to think about the fertility of the soil. You have to think about   how to encourage life, and sometimes that means you have to do something first, like   dump for   fertility for a few years from a giant flock of ducks. And if you think about a 50 ducks weighs about 750   pounds,   which would be three quarters of a cattle unit.   Yep. So that's what we did is we put a duck cattle unit on our property, and then we we sold duck eggs to fund their existence. We didn't make a ton of money off of them, but we had, you know, high end restaurants buying our product. And we use that to fund a lot of what we did here. And it it it it's pretty amazing now. People come here, and the people that are most   blown away like, people come here, this is really cool. The people that come here and go, holy crap, are the ones that came here the first year.  

And now they come here, and there's little forests   of productive   things growing out of every dad gone place on the property. It's,   it's a testament to what can be done. And Mollison's original   idea in permaculture one, the the first book that he released,   was exactly this,   that if you have really arable perfect agricultural land   for now,   just use it that way.   Permaculture was designed to see the opportunities where others did not.   How to take the unproductive into the productive. And then coupled with it is the concept that we design,   for one example, in zones.  

Where do people spend their time? So if you have a garden that requires maintenance,   it doesn't belong on your back fence. It belongs right out your back door. That would be your zone one. It's the thing you need to rely on every day. Maybe the wood pile's in a zone two a little further out. And we design   around what we're looking for working with nature, but also natural human activity.   We might design   certain things that need to be looked at daily   along a pathway to a duck coop or a chicken coop because we're gonna go let them out every day.   So we kinda create this little peninsula of a zone one app to letting those birds out every day. Then maybe we install something like a compost pit. We throw all our waste in there. We let the birds actually process us to do the work for us. All of these things are tactics and techniques in permaculture. When you say, like, trying to explain it to people and they glaze over, well, like, the number one rule of marketing is never use a word that your market doesn't know unless you have a really good reason. Like, it's so so quirky that they're gonna be intrigued, and permaculture probably isn't that.  

So I tend to say, you know, we do we do natural   gardening. We in we install edible landscaping. Whatever   the person you're speaking to, whatever their lingo is, you use that. And eventually, you can kind of trick them into, well, how do I do all this? Well, let me tell you about permaculture.   If you want someone to take an idea and get them to give you permission to talk about it.  

[00:24:29] David Bennett:

Right. So when you say you're on a rock slab, you literally are   on a rock slab insofar as aren't you on, like, a limestone escarpment or something like that? Yeah. We're on a a limestone formation,  

[00:24:42] Unknown:

that basically, the house sits on a saddle, so it's the one thing the design was done right here with is they put the house on the highest point of the property. So at least they did that.   Right. And it kinda sheds all four directions from there. But right through the middle then, the reason it's the high point   is underneath the soil, what what there is of it, is a is a rock formation   that was part of probably what you would consider a reef under what was known as the Great Inland Sea, you know, millions and millions of years ago, where there was actually the the whole center of The United States was under the ocean.   So when I say slab, people think rock. Like, you dig up. There's a chunk of rock here and it's no. No. Rock.  

Like, there's about   four inches of soil, then there is rock that's kind of chunky, but there's no soil in it. You can, like with an excavator, you can break it and pull it out. And after two feet of that, you have   compressed flat   I mean, like, you could make a sarcophagus   out of it limestone.   The chunky part on the top when you break it out, you can literally see seashells.   So even though I'm I'm I'm near Fort Worth, we're nowhere near an ocean.   You should see seashells and nautiluses and and little crustaceans and things like that in the rock. It literally looks like concrete   that was made out of seashells instead of gravel.  

And that's Yeah. Basically what it is. That's what we're that's what we're doing this on.  

[00:26:06] David Bennett:

Yeah. And so when you're planting a tree, like, you you know, in your case, when you were saying, oh, I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of, you know, what eventually will become dead sticks.   You know, a tree needs to be able to send down roots, and you can't really do that through a limestone slab. Yet your property   has quite a few trees on that, and you did that through the functionality of what's called a swale  

[00:26:27] Unknown:

That's if I'm getting that right. There's a part of it that we did that with. I mean so first of all, there are trees here that are native. Like, they're live oaks and stuff, and these are trees that are probably,   by looking at the rings in them, they're probably 70 years old,   and they're the size of of a typical live oak that might be 15 to 20.   They naturally dwarf because of what they can do. But even those trees, what they do is those fractures in the rock, they actually get their roots into those fractures.   And then whenever you you deal with plant material   and you deal with the natural   reactions through what's called exudates, and that's it. Plants   take little little bits of of moisture and globules, and they they put them out of their roots.  

And they're basically sugar and and carbohydrate   basically carbohydrate and and fat and nutrient   that attract little soil critters.   Right? So the the tree needs selenium, it'll actually do an exudate   that will attract the soil critter, little microbes   that will produce selenium in their poop, and it'll actually attract them. It's like a it's like a a a deal that they make. And so those little soil critters will come, and they'll they'll feed on that exudate, and they'll do an exchange of nutrient.   Well, when all of that to to simplify this, when all of that occurs, one of the byproducts of that is humic acid.   Well, if you have limestone, you have a base, and we've all played with, you know, baking soda and vinegar.  

So you know what happens when those two things go together. So that humic acid actually begins to eat the rock,   and the trees actually begin to eat the rock through their interaction with their exudates and the soil microbes.   And this this rock, when you uncover it and the trees have gotten their roots into it for a time, it goes from a bleach white   to kind of an orangey yellow.   And I I have pieces of it where you we actually pick it up, and you can take it in your hands. And, I mean, this stuff, you'll break the handle of a sledgehammer on a year ago. And once that acid really gets in there, you could take your hands and break it with your hands.   And once those trees get into that rock, they start to actually build soil through the decomposition of their own root systems   down inside those fractures.  

And so we want pyrrhine trees to come in first, and then other trees can go behind them, and they follow those roots that have died off from your pioneers.   We call that a fast carbon pathway. Now what you're asking about are swells. So we did that on the part of the property   that had about 10 inches of soil. That was deep for us. Right? Because I can't dig a swale   in the rock itself.   Then I would have a giant pile of rubble, not soil. So we had about a three quarter acre area that made sense for this. A swale is a ditch   but on contour.  

Meaning, unlike most ditches you're familiar with where water goes in the ditch and moves down the ditch,   the ditch is level.   So we take some sort of level   finding device like an a frame or in my case, I use the rotary laser level, and we mark a contour line, and we dig that ditch on that contour.   We take the soil out of the ditch. We put it on the downhill   side even though it seems very, very flat. There is a downhill side of that contour.   That gives us a mound. And that mound now, if we took 10 inches out and we laid it on top of 10 inches, now we got 20 inches. Now we got something to work with. We plant trees into that mound. We plant trees in front of that mound, and we plant trees behind the ditch itself.   And probably for every one productive tree we put in, we're putting in 15   trees that are designed to   die,   and and we want those to be nitrogen fixers, fast growing, very hardy.  

And we use a a technique called chop and drop. So that tree starts to grow. We cut it down. It grows back. We cut it down again, and we take everything we cut off it, and we drop it down   and let it form new soil. And, eventually,   of those, you know, 15 to one ratio, you're probably gonna have maybe two of those 15 survive as long term part of the overstory.   The rest of them die. Well, all those roots they've put in the ground   die. And then if your productive trees, which are planted right next to them, it looks way too dense when you start out.   They follow the pathways of those dying roots.  

So the pioneer goes first. It gets shot in the back. Think of it that way. It dies, and then the settler comes from behind.   And that's part of what we did here. A lot there's there's it it's eight years of work at this point explaining it all   in brevity is is really not possible.  

[00:31:01] David Bennett:

No. No. It's completely impossible. But one of the things because I've been, you know, I've been following what and I I gotta I I gotta tell you, one of the things that I always enjoyed about the YouTube channel,   when you're posting up videos that you're taking on your phone is the property walks during a rainstorm, and I'm watching these very long ditches that are on contour   holding massive amounts of water. You know, ducks are swimming and playing and just having you know, doing what ducks do, I guess, you know, pooping in the water and and having fun.   And they'd stay that I think you were saying that they'd stay that way for, like, three or four days. And before mosquitoes could take hold, it was all over.  

But now it's different.   Yep. As of late, those swales don't hold water for well, how long do they hold water for now? Because it ain't three or four days. No. It depends. Like, so  

[00:31:50] Unknown:

if you get enough rain long enough, like because sometimes in our spring, we get   crazy, you know, deluge monsoons in, like, May. So if you get three or four days in a row rain, you really super super hydrate everything. It can last a few days after the rain stops before it fully dries up. But when we first put them in, it was literally the day we put them in. We did a workshop. We had students here. We got the excavator out of the way because it was gonna be a mud hole. Rain came in. I mean, literally, the boom on the excavator went down to rest mode, and   and we got about an inch of rain.  

Wow. That inch of rain filled and overflowed all three swells,   and then they held water for about a day, and that was only an inch of rain.   Then as as time progressed, we got trees and etcetera. You know, if you've got a good rain event like an inches and a half of rain, if the ground was wet before it happened, they would hold water two or three or four days.   Now we can get   an inch and a half of rain, and you go out there and there's no water in them at all.  

[00:32:53] David Bennett:

Now that would seem to suggest that all the trees that you've put in have sort of broken the back   a lot, like or broken those three spines   in in the formation. Is is that correct, or am I looking at it wrong? You're you're absolutely right. They have they have broken fractures  

[00:33:09] Unknown:

into the rock.   So the water that used to sit there   and slowly per because it it it only had,   you know, 10 to 11 inches of soil to hold it before it hit rock.   And the rock was mostly impermeable even to water, and that hydrated the whole landscape. Now you gotta be careful. Like, this is something where, like, you don't just watch videos on YouTube, but this is gonna start putting swells in. First of all, do they even make sense there? And second of all, what are you doing? If I had done this on a steep slope at a slightly larger scale,   that super hydration of that thin soil probably would have took the whole side of the mountain down.  

Mhmm. This is on very flat soil, so it had time to work. And I'm not saying you can't do it in those places. You might have to do it a little bit differently. And as you get bigger things, you might want an engineer checking your sanity. In in this instance,   that water is super hydrated. It slowly permeated to the actual ditch and went down the road. And over time,   it got into those rocks. It fractured them. It broke them. And now it takes about an inch and a half to two inches of of a rain event to fill them. If you get that, that water will seep into the ground   over about eight hours.  

If you get a four inch rain event, you might be there a while, but   it doesn't matter.   It all is now   water going into the system that was before leaving. So part of the problem was the land was being eroded by rain events. It was literally taking everything with it because the water couldn't get in the ground. So if it can't get in the ground, it goes across the ground.   When we put these these three big swells in that you're talking about you've seen in the videos, they hold about 28,000   gallons of water when they're full.   Yep. And the fact that they fill from one inch didn't change.  

The space and the runoff is the same.   So when you get an inch and you see no water in the swells, some little puddle here and there,   that same 28,000   gallons went in there.   It just now went in the ground instead of across the ground and down the road into a into a river.   Now it's in the property.   So what we're doing is we're storing the water   in the ground where it belongs.   And and that's done and it's a it's an incredibly   primitive   but sophisticated   technology, the swale.   My one thing we're talking so much about swales that I always worry about is people see permaculture. They see swales. They say, permaculture is swales. I need property, and I need swales.   Maybe,   maybe not.  

The swell is a is a is a tactic.   It's a technique. It's within   the disciplined science of permaculture,   and it doesn't go everywhere. People say, well, I have it rains, you know, 60 inches a year here, and it's all sand and everything grows on it. Okay. Don't put a swale in there.   Yep. Right? Unless you're if you're putting a pond in, you wanna increase your catchment,   great idea.   But if if if you don't need swales,   don't do it. And also think about where they go. You don't wanna design   access out of your out of your property. That's the other thing I've seen happen with swells. People put swells in end to end. Okay. Now how do I get a vehicle through? Well,   maybe you shouldn't have done what you did. You know? I mean, you get we we we you wanna look at your property from, three things.  

More, but three main things when you go into a property, water access structure.   How is water gonna move and be held and and be transported across this property and infiltrated?   Access, how am I gonna get materials and people and things in and out of this property doing the least damage to it and structure? Where will my buildings and dwellings go?   And and you gotta look at those together   or we end up designing things like   ideal structure locations or access to them out of the design. That's bad design.  

[00:36:59] David Bennett:

Right. And what you know, just to to pound it home, you know, to the to the listener is that   before you got there,   that house was already there. There was somebody who built it, so there was somebody living there. They didn't do this, so all the water is basically shedding off. You get there.   Same property.   You do things, reach for stuff, look at things, and all of a sudden, instead of water running away,   water stays there.   So now in a dry,   relatively arid part of The United States,   where the guy next door to you is probably looks   very dry. Mhmm. You are not very dry because you've been able to save all the water instead of letting it run off. And I think that that's, you know,   that's one tiny   piece   of designing   when when we start looking at at landscapes, and it feel I know that there's been at least a couple of people who have, like, looked at me and said when I talked about permaculture   that there's a hubris involved. Like, oh, like, you think you can do it better? And I don't think that that's the point. I think the point is is that humans are a function on top of the land in which they dwell,   and we forgot just damn near   how to deal with it. It's Not how to not how to deal with it, Jack. Sort of like how to be a part of it. How like, we've completely separated ourselves that are no longer integrated into   getting in the dirt, looking at rocks.  

What how does this tree make sense here,   You know, for you know, because I'm just I just have just as much right to be on the land as the tree   and us together, like humans in the land working in   in concert.   Some really beautiful things can happen. And and you proved it on your property because   I've seen pictures of your property before, after,   and your neighbor's property.   I I   keep freaking out. I mean, I'm like, Jesus. I don't know how this happens. It's amazing, especially  

[00:38:55] Unknown:

in,   like, spring when everything comes back to life naturally in the area, and everything starts to green up in the whole area on its own.   And you come driving down the road, and the green here almost looks unnatural   because it's so different.   They and this is, you know, the good time of year. This is when the neighbor stuff is growing because we get a lot of rain here.   We get around 48 inches a year. That's a lot. We just get it   kind of all in one wet season,   and then we'll go months without a drop.   And since the soil's thin, everything dries out in a week, and then you go three months without rain. That's what makes it difficult. We have that we you know, people think in in northern climates, like, everything stops growing in their winter. Here, everything stops growing in our summers. But, the original thing you brought up about hubris,   permaculture   is anti hubris. Right? It's not that I'm better. It's that I need to accept feedback from the land. So there are certain things that when I moved here,   in my ego, I was gonna prove they could grow here. And you know what? If I really kept at it,   I could find a way to make it work. I can put something on life support.  

But eventually, the land tells you, you know what?   You don't wanna do that. And you can either   accept that,   which requires, you know,   a humility and an acceptance that nature is in control,   or you could try to dominate nature. So permaculture   actually is a place of the school of thought where   look look at it this way.   If you go into,   martial arts training, especially very traditional   eastern martial arts,   you have to go   to your your teacher, your sensei with a certain level of humility or they won't even work with you. Right?   Your your cup is full, get out the door type of of of thinking,   you know, kind of said Buddhism.  

And so   if you are a student of someone, you have to go to the teacher with a level of humility.   Well, our greatest teacher in permaculture   is not Bill Mollison or Jeff Laughton or Mark Shepherd or, god forbid, Jack Spierko.   Our greatest teacher, and every true permaculture will tell you this, is the forest.   When we are at a point where we're not sure what we can do next,   go into the forest and observe the forest and let the forest be your teacher.   Understand the forest floor is a lake, things like that. So you have to put yourself in a position   where nature is the master and you're the student.  

And the minute you've done that, you the the entire idea   that you're better or you can force has to leave.   You almost have to enter into the concept if if you want if you want a true answer, start with no opinion.   And and that is the mindset that that we at least we should be coming at this with. Now   we all as human beings fall short of our ideals at times, and we decide, hey. I'm gonna do this. But nature kicks you in the ass and straightens you out on that really, really quickly.  

[00:42:00] David Bennett:

It, yeah, it it does. But what you what you were saying about   looking at nature and and   the way that I the way that I   rephrase it is   like weeds.   People get   just I mean, the Karen down the street hates them.   Just it's it's a needle in their mind, and they just can't get it, you know, can't get it out. And what   getting into this whole thing taught me was like, wait a minute.   If you eradicate those things, you're missing part of the story.   And the and the land can tell you these stories,   you know, for example,   my wife, you know, my family moved to the we live in in the Panhandle in Texas,   over there in over here in the Amarillo area. Now we're in a rural community. I didn't move to Amarillo. It's the world's largest truck stop. I'm not gonna do that.  

But, we we moved out here.   And   the first summer that we were here,   I got taken over by,   I mean, huge   masses of amaranth in this one patch. K. Now amaranth   was kind of everywhere,   but not like in this one patch. And I'm looking at it and I'm just like,   I'm not going to touch it.   I'm going to let that son of a bitch grow throughout the entire summer.   And it did. And oh my god, when I had to hack that shit down, I hated myself. But it but it worked because   the next summer,   there wasn't half the amount of amaranth growing in that same in that same part. And, of course, when I took it out, I I literally mowed over it and just left it there.   And then the next like that like I said, the next summer, not even half came back, and they were much the ones that did were much smaller. I let them grow. I did the same shit.  

Now in that very same spot,   amaranth won't grow.   And I know it's because of all the the fact that amaranth is a pioneer species,   and it I just let it go. I let it tell me the story of and that story was this little   piece of your backyard   is so jacked up, dude,   that you're really gonna let me you're gonna it's like a masseuse. I'm gonna work this son of a bitch over. It fertilized it. It fertilized itself to death with its own bodies.  

[00:44:14] Unknown:

Right? It doesn't it doesn't grow   like it it's specifically a type of you're talking about, like, pigweed amaranth, wild amaranth. It doesn't grow in fertile soil.   So so this is the mindset that most people have, that Karen would have. Right? Okay. There's a infertile place nothing will grow except these weeds, so I'm gonna kill the weeds and plant grass. Well, the grass is gonna die   because it can't grow there unless we fertilize it with artificial fertility   and irrigate it because there's no fertility there. But so you so the other solution, the natural solution   of the person that's a little more enlightened but not fully would be, well, mulch it.  

So we're gonna go down the road to materials place and pay good money for someone who used a lot of energy   to cut down plant material   and bring it to a place where they chopped it up and put it in a bag or the back of your truck, you're gonna haul it to that location and unload it.   When?   Amaranth's growing there. Guess what that is? Mulch.   That's what you did with it. You cut it down, and you let it go to mulch. And there's other ways you could've handled it. You know, where you live, maybe this wasn't possible, but one thing you could do you know what loves amaranth? Pigs.   So you could have literally sent pigs in like, fence a pig in there,   and they'll eat it and crap it out. That would even be better. Goats would eat it. Again, I I love goats as long as they're not mine.  



[00:45:33] David Bennett:

Yeah. But goats,  

[00:45:35] Unknown:

any room in it that would eat amaranth, cattle would eat amaranth. So instead of like, if you have a like, people say, well, he had a small place. Right? And you did.   But if if you had acres of that,   grace it. And if you grace it in a holistic grazing pattern where we move the cattle daily, we don't overgraze, we grace about one third and move on, the the process you observe, we can accelerate   and improve.   All of these plants that we think of as being problems are nature's reparative mechanisms.   You can you thought about telling a story. So if you know that a particular weed is really good at at mining a nutrient,   that nutrient you would think that that means okay. If this thing is really good at mining,   selenium,   that that means there's lots of selenium there where it's growing. No.  

It's selenium deficient,   but it's able to get the selenium. There's there's more selenium in a tablespoon of that dirt   than your plants could need   in a quarter of an acre in in all honesty. It's a very small amount of that micronutrients   necessary.   However, it's not bioavailable.   That weed is there   because it can get it through its oxidation process   when more tender plants that you have you consider more desirable   cannot.   So nature sends it to fix it. If you have really loose soil, you'll get weeds that are very hairnet. They hold the soil together. If you get very compacted soil, you'll get   weeds with deep taproots that drive down into it. Literally, nature will give you what you need. Now the one place we have to be careful here, you can be too fanciful with this. In permaculture, we say there are no weeds,   but there are plants that will choke out the plants you want to grow. So there are times to to put some control mechanisms in. But in general, when you have land where nothing grows except this one thing,   use that thing   to improve the fertility   instead of bringing an input in from off-site, if that makes sense.  



[00:47:32] David Bennett:

No. It makes complete sense, and I think we're break   well, I was about to say where it breaks down, and that's not that's not what I mean. But for lack of a better phrase,   where that breaks down is in the is in the eye of the beholder. Sure. Anybody else   looking at this mass of amaranth,   they're looking at it like, how do you how do you live with yourself? How do you wake up, come out in your backyard, drink coffee, and go, oh, that's beautiful. And I'm like,   I can't explain why, but   it is.   I I I wouldn't want it there forever,   and it doesn't have to be. I just need it to do its job because it either is gonna do the job for me or I gotta do the job myself. You couldn't make it. You couldn't make it stay there forever.  



[00:48:14] Unknown:

If you tried, you wouldn't be able to make that kind of a wild,   clumpy,   self regenerating   amaranth grow in that spot   nonstop   for eternity if you employed every system that you could design   to control it. Because what you're doing then is you're fighting   secession. Everything   in our natural system   moves toward a system of   eventual,   eventual   summit. Right? It moves to a point of of where it reaches its highest pinnacle, and then it goes into decline and it recycles.   What you're observing there, if you did nothing,   assuming that the climate's right for it, if you did absolutely nothing, that area will become forest of some sort.  



[00:48:59] David Bennett:

Yeah. It always successes   successes to forest. And and   another thing along these lines, which is   one of the things that caused me to you know, like I was saying at the at the beginning of this, that caused me to kinda get into Bitcoin was I came in through the permaculture   region, ag, all that stuff,   and I kept hearing about things like Nassim Taleb's books,   things called time horizons. Do you have a short time horizon? Do you have a long time horizon?   And so by the time I hit Bitcoin, where guess what,   all that stuff,   the same stuff that I learned on on the permaculture side   is being talked about in the Bitcoin circles   on their side,   which leads me to   what's called edge effect.  



[00:49:46] Unknown:

And if you would be so kind, could you explain your version of what edge effect is? I I don't know that I have my version. I guess maybe my way of explaining it. So I I don't Yeah. It's not my theory. Right? Edge edge theory is   something that's well known in many scientific circles. Permaculture   is just tend to harness it. And it's that all abundance is along an edge.   And so   if you look at   a typical   scene that you can observe throughout,   you know, the kind of the edges of Suburban America where you have fields that are not really maintained   and then you have kind of foresty woodlots.  

You   every kid that's ever gone into a woodlot like that knows that you go through the field, that's easy. When you get inside the woods, you can kinda move around easy. But the place you kinda tear yourself up a bit if you and your friends haven't made a path yet   is the edge between the field and the forest.   That's where the brambles are. That's where the vines are. That's where you experience what it's, you know, all seven layers of a forest system from canopy   to the rhizomeal layer all in one place.   And and and so when we would design permaculture systems, we design edge into the system to create abundance.  

But this is not something that you have to design to observe.   Nature has its own edges everywhere. Like, one I just described was an edge. We didn't design that. Maybe we maybe man had a hand in it, and they they they plowed this field and stopped taking care of it and a forest emerged. And that edge but nobody designed it. But you can see this is dynamic   edges even with something like if you go to a lake,   you might see some guys in a boat fishing, and it looks like they're in the middle of the lake.   Like, they're nowhere near the shoreline. Everybody stands edge and shoreline and the bass boat guys along the edge. When you see these guys sit in the middle of the lake and they're catching fish, you see another guy motor his boat out with no idea what's going on. He's only 25 feet away. He's using the same bait. He catches no fish. Well, the guys that are catching fish, maybe they're over a hump.  

Well, that hump is now it's a vertical edge within the water column. Or maybe there's a school of bait fish following a a a plankton cloud. That's an edge. The bait fish become an edge, and and then the predator fish exist along the edge of the baitfish.   And this pattern repeats itself in nature. It repeats itself in almost everything that humans design. If you look at where is the the the greatest productivity,   even in an urban situation,   often, if we're if we're measuring productivity by   economic output,   right, then then maybe it's in the urban center. But if we're measuring it by people and interactions   and and and plants and gardens,   well, your greatest abundance in an urban environment is in the suburban beltway around it. It's it's own form of edge.  

Everywhere that humans interact, you'll find an an interactive   edge.   Again, this is this is what's known as a universal   pattern   that once you understand it and you understand how to recognize the pattern,   you can't help but see it in everything that you do. As a podcaster, you have an interactive edge. You have a large number of people that listen, but the most engagement happens between the people that are closest to you, and then they create a secondary edge kind of as your fan spreading your information out   to others.  

And you can just keep going. That edge is everywhere.   Right. So   generally or generally speaking, I guess, is like you've got an area of, like, life form set a rubbing up against  

[00:53:26] David Bennett:

a life form set b.   And right on that in right where they connect, you get, like, this synergy from both of these systems. And that's where I come in with   the next question that may be impossible to answer in this particular context of of permaculture. But,   I am re this entire podcast is named Bitcoin and Mhmm.   Dot dot dot or ellipses because it's Bitcoin and something else. There's all there's there are other things. It's not all about Bitcoin,   And I wanted to design this podcast where I was examining the edge effect where two where any two systems, one of which is always Bitcoin, rubs up against another system.   Is there any edge effect   in your mind that you can see or pull out between Bitcoin   and permaculture as a design science?  



[00:54:18] Unknown:

Well, let's look at the edge effect in in Bitcoin   and instead of immediately trying to combine it with with permaculture and just see the edge that you were asking about. So if if you look at Bitcoin from a standpoint of miners mine Bitcoin, people buy Bitcoin, and people hold Bitcoin and hope it goes up in value, you may not see a huge amount of edge. I can make a stretch   for an edge effect there,   but I'm not gonna bother. We'll let if this goes deep enough in the brains of your listeners, they can do that for themselves.   Kind of a project. Right? But let's if we actually use Bitcoin   for its intended purpose that Satoshi designed it for,   Satoshi or Satoshi's, we don't really know. Right?  

Right. Then   we have Bitcoin,   and it is consolidated   in the possession of an individual   who who acquires it either by mining or receiving it and then conducts commerce with it.   That commerce itself is an interactive edge.   So the abundance comes in an economic system when two or more parties begin to conduct   commerce with each other. That's what creates abundance. That's what creates the desire of one individual   to ex exert work of some form   so that the so that the other individual will tender some sort of compensation   for it. So all economic   activity exists along multiple edges. Every single   member within an economic system that chooses to do business voluntarily with another member   creates yet another edge.  

And then those edges almost move into almost like trophic cascades eventually   where you have   certain communities that develop around a certain concept. Maybe it's fans of a podcast to become members of their membership program or maybe fans of a musician   that buy their product.   The fact that we've switched it from dollars to Bitcoin or to Ethereum or to any other cryptocurrency,   privacy coins, whatever,   has no bearing on the fact that you still have that interactive now economic edge.   And and then so if we're taking it to you wanna take it to permaculture, we're taking it to I start doing pastured poultry,   and I'm selling my product for for a cryptocurrency.  

Not only do we have an economic edge, now we have a natural edge and some form of abundance that's being created   in my production   of a commodity that I'm selling to you for Bitcoin.   And if you started thinking about mining,   you would probably be able to pretty quickly   be able to define   how nodes act as edges in the verifying of transactions   to produce   and mine the next level of wealth out of a cryptocurrency.   Like, again, this is this is such an intrinsically   natural pattern   that anywhere that any form of abundance   is created,   you'll find   at least two things   interacting to create an edge. You'll never find abundance   coming from a single thing with no interaction with another thing.  



[00:57:24] David Bennett:

Right.   Right. And so   on on that note, I kinda wanna switch because   generally speaking, you I mean,   you know   you know about permaculture.   You talk about on your podcast, but that wasn't the impetus that started your podcast, which is the survival podcast.   That was more about preparedness. Right?  

[00:57:46] Unknown:

It was about preparedness, but I'm a marketer,   and I'm not dumb.   And and and I know that if I'm going to market an idea   that I need a hook.   And if I had started this show in 02/2008 and called to the lifestyle design podcast,   I probably would still be doing something else   because I don't think it had enough of a hook. People hadn't really switched on to people like Tim Ferriss as much yet or whatever, and lifestyle design was not a thing that anybody was looking for.   Now the thing about if you're designing a life properly,   you're designing redundancy into your life.  

So preparedness was always something that was very important to me, again, because I grew up in a place where if you weren't prepared, you suffered.   And it was also the concept that if you're gonna build abundance into your life,   then you must build nonbrittleness and resiliency   into your life at the same time.   You could be incredibly wealthy, and if you haven't done that, you can lose everything that you have.   So we we talk about preparedness from a standpoint of dealing with a storm or dealing with a pandemic. Right? Because everybody thought you were crate I was crazy about that until this year.   But we also talk about it with, like, boring things like insurance.  

Like, if you if you if you you know, I've I I actually knew a guy one time. He's like, yeah. Well, I finally paid off my house, so I canceled my, my fire insurance.   Oh. What?   Or people pay off their car so they, you know, and they drop their their their coverage of their own vehicle. Right? Now if you're if you're driving a $300 hoopty, I get it. Right? But if you have a a car with significant underlying replacement value, you probably wanna maintain insurance on it. Right? So   I just take the insurance concept   and expand it out to Assurance.  

So   you can't really afford to insure everything in your life from every type of law loss, but what you can do is build redundancy   into your lifestyle so that if you suffer a loss,   something else compensates for it, or the loss itself is mitigated because the item itself has some level of protection.   So with Bitcoin, 1 of the first things you teach people what is what? Back up your wallet. Right? Because if you lose it, it's gone. So just take that approach and expand it to your entire life. Back up your life.  

[01:00:04] David Bennett:

So what would be the top five things   in preparedness that I don't know. So let's take urban setting. Like, your your general urban guy, two bedroom house, or three or four bedroom house. You know?   What would be the top five things that that   they could approach doing to feel a little bit safer? Not feel, but,   you know,  

[01:00:27] Unknown:

have some backup. Where where would your backups be on that? Well, I mean, what you wanna do is it doesn't matter where you are.   You you wanna focus on your your primary survival needs.   So if you go to a wilderness survival course, they're gonna teach you it's food,   water,   fire,   security,   and shelter. Right? Those are the the five that you need. So all we're gonna do is we're gonna change fire to energy   because that's what fire represents in that wilderness setting, and we're gonna add a sixth need, which is health and sanitation.   So you sit down with those. Those are your primary needs in life.  

You have to eat. You have to be able to hydrate yourself. You have to be able to shelter yourself.   You have to have energy to be able to accomplish things.   You have to have security, and security is the one that is the most overlooked   because it's the one that we can do without for the longest period of time until we need it. And what I mean by that is okay. So how long can you go   without water?   Oh, you can go for three days without water. In general, that would be true. Like, if it's a 50 degrees out, maybe not. But in general, you can go about three days without without water.   You can go for   practically a single nanosecond without security if you need it, and you're dead. Right? Because one bullet that I had, you're dead. But we could go through our whole lives   without thinking about security at all because to some degree it's provided for us and and because of another degree of most people aren't actually out trying to kill you.  

Right? So you you end up with a certain number of people that just don't wanna hurt you, and then the scumbags have a little bit of fear because most most people, I I I'm believing this less and less, but I'd like to believe most people, if they saw somebody hurting you,   would intervene if they felt that they could, and and scumbags know this. So we need to think about that that first one is security.   How secure are you? Because when problems happen, security goes down.   We also need to think about being able to eat. So what happened when the pandemic lockdown started? People ran out and bought up all the dry goods,   and then people bought up all the shelf stable items. And then people bought up all the fresh items, and people brought up all the meat,   and it became competitive to where people freaked out and bought more than they needed even to stock up.  

Right. Preppers didn't. We didn't care.   We're   whatever. We're fine. You know? So food, I would say that everybody should try to get to a position   where you can at least go a month without going to the grocery store.   I prefer ninety days.   If you have ninety days of food reserves   and something like the pandemic did in the spring happens,   you got ninety days before you need to worry. But if you actually start to resupply now, just maybe not in panic mode,   you can extend that ninety days to six months   real easy while everybody else is scraping   to make the ninety day threshold.  

And as we've seen, that'll get you through most things. So food storage is is a huge thing, and I suggest people start with eat what you store and store what you eat. Start with a make a list.   Instead of worrying about, like, you know, Jack Spergo says to go buy rice and beans, not if you don't eat them.   Right? Yeah. If and now look. Rice and beans and, you know, grains,   best long term absolute end of the world storage items you can get. So if you wanna fill up 10 buckets of rice, 10 buckets of beans, and 10 buckets of wheat, it's cheap. Throw them in a five gallon bucket. Throw a hand warmer in there. It's a it's a basically, a hand warmer is an o two absorber. They they work the same way. So you get the cheap hand warmers at the end of the season from the, sporting goods department, and you throw them in there with it. And and that's the whole last twenty five years. Throw it in your basement. You've you've got that.   Day to day,   make that list. What do you eat?  

What do you eat often?   And what is storable without refrigeration?   Make that list. Put check marks and stars by it as you go through that.   Develop that shopping list. And the next time you go to the store, this item that you usually buy two of, buy four of it. The next time you go to the store, buy four of it again. And when you have   a month or two supply of it, move on to the next item or two, and keep doing that until you build up that storage.   Then expand your food storage to be things that need to be frozen.   So it got really hard, by the way, this year to get a just freezer or a deep freezer, but a deep freezer and a and a a generator capable of running   that plus your refrigerator for a few hours a day   and, you know, then start storing gasoline. I think this makes sense for everybody. By general, as long as you have the space for it, it can be done safely. 60 gallons of gas. And that's because gas gas cans are five gallons, and there's twelve months in a year.  

So you go to the store, you buy a gas can or two. This is,   December.   You take a Sharpie. You write 12 on your gas can.   When you go fill your car up, fill your gas can up too. Next month, take the get a new gas can, write one on it. That's for January. Fill up the car, fill up the gas can. When you end up and you can go faster if you want to if you have the money, but you can phase into this over a year. Now you got gas cans sitting one through 12.   You got 60 gallons of gas. The oldest gas you have is a year old. You don't even need stable at that point. Pick up this you know, now it's December again. Pick up the can with the 12 on it. Dump it in your car. Throw it in the trunk, take it to the gas station when you fill up the car, fill the gas can up, take it home, put it back in the line.   Really   super simple. Energy,   like solar panels and all that, great if you ever get there. But a generator,   gasoline,   start using rechargeable double a's and triple a's and everything in your home that uses double a's and triple a's except your smoke alarms because you don't want those to die on you. Get a good battery recharger.  

Get yourself like, they make c cell and d cell. They're like little cases. You throw two double a's in them, and then that can go in a d cell battery with two double a's substituting for a d cell. That doesn't mean don't get rid of your d cells. Just rechargeable d cells suck.   So Yeah. Now you've got that taken care of. Get something like a very simple 800 watt inverter that you can clamp on the battery of your car. Now you have additional backup power. You can charge unlimited numbers of batteries idling your car for fifteen minutes out of a couple hours of charging. Never kill your battery. You've got another thing. You can take an extension cord, plug it into that inverter, run it into your house, run some lights and some fans and stuff like that. Just don't let the battery in the cargo dead. Now you've got a basic handle on energy.   Health and sanitation. You have to start thinking, what would I do   if I couldn't flush my toilet? Because it happens.  

Well, go get some of the blue stuff. Get some big contractor grade garbage bags. Get a extra toilet seat and a bucket. It sucks, but it's better than the alternative.   Right? That so we could handle that. We also need to look at first aid items, first aid kit. Oh, we can't go through all that. It could be a whole hour just in that. But medication Right. You have maintenance medication. You should have two to three months of it on hand at all times.   Right? And you just continue through this process. And then on top of it, you add to it. Like, I'm not real worried about a blizzard.   Right? I so I'm not got a lot of blizzard prep going on. Right? I am worried about tornadoes.  

So I, you know, I kinda have a safe area plan for a tornado. So you also then take your individual   risk assessment of your location. I'm not real worried about an earthquake.   I I'm really not. I mean, people say, well, it could happen. Yeah. Well, my you know, I I could get hit in the head with a meteor too. Right? So that's not really the what I what I really think about. If I lived in California,   I'd have an earthquake plan. But you're still gonna go back to those six things.   You're that's and if you think about everywhere there's ever a disaster in the world   and the Red Cross lady who's gonna spend your money on jet fuel comes on TV to tell you what they need, it always revolves around those six things.  



[01:08:20] David Bennett:

Yeah. And what I what I enjoy the most about your brand of preparedness   is that, and and don't get me wrong, man. I'm I'm a I'm  

[01:08:30] Unknown:

I love the second amendment. I I have I knew you were gonna say that as soon as you started to fight, like, covering your ass. I have I know. I understand. Have them.  

[01:08:38] David Bennett:

But there are so many people that are like, I'm a prepper, and   none   none of what you went over is   ever touched on. It is how many, you know, how much ammunition do you have because the zombie hordes come in. Now all the zombals, we're all gonna die. And, like, yeah,   the chances of a zombal horde,  

[01:08:59] Unknown:

pretty low. You know? You know?   I am all about   security being one of the most important things, but security   is as much procedure and protocol   as it is weapons.   Okay? So   the the the the big thing is just because it's a disaster, you're not gonna have a license to start shooting people.   Okay? It doesn't work that way. And even even if you go into a a   huge breakdown of order like the riots we had this summer,   If you shoot somebody, somebody's coming to arrest you sooner or later   unless you can truly justify what you're doing. So the first step of security is number one, in the words of mister Miyagi from Karate Kid 1980 style,   best defense is to no be there. Right? Don't be where the punches. So get the hell out of the places that are most likely to be at risk when there's a breakdown.  

And having neighbors who think like you and I do that, yes, if we have to, we will shoot you helps a lot with that.   Like, I guarantee you, you know, every house around me is   is perimeter fenced.   There is no front yard that's not fenced. There's big dogs in every yard, and somebody, even the old lady that lives next door to me, will shoot your ass if they feel the need to. That right there means we're probably not gonna have to do it. It's like the guy that says, you know, he'll take his belt to his kid's ass, which I'm totally opposed to. But in general, if he   if he's the right mindset, he probably never will have to. The fact that it could happen is enough   to set a level of discipline. Right? So I think that when you live in an area,   you wanna pick an area where people that would do that type of harm   are already thinking, not there. No. That's that's that's a bad place. That's that's not a good idea. Right?  

And then number two, though, is to have procedure and protocol.   So procedure is how you do something. Protocol is when it's implemented and how it's implemented.   So I don't walk around   all day long with an AR on my back.   If we got into a real system of breakdown, I might.   And so when do we escalate that protocol? My dog spent a lot of time indoors.   But if we were in a situation where I was more worried about vandalism and theft,   they might be a lot more outside dogs for that for that protocol   during that time. So if you break your security down that way, you don't have to sit around worried about I got 8,000 rounds. What are you gonna do? I mean, really, what do you these people live in a diluted state, and I'm not saying that as some pit piece neck hippie. Right? I'm saying that as a realist. I'm saying that as a pragmatist.   On some level, I'm saying it from a postmodernist,   concept of doubting, right, and being skeptical of things. I I keep hearing all this shit from the screw of people you're talking about. Like, they're gonna seventeen seventy six someday and overthrow our tyrannical government. They can't even get their asses off of Facebook while they're being surveilled by by Facebook and their government. They don't have enough in them to do that, but they're gonna rise up and fight. This this is nonsensical   thinking. It's not gonna happen.  

And if it does, the people that are talking about it the most, either they're the ones that are gonna do the least or gonna be the first ones taken out anyway. So on that stuff,   you put your security in place. You have your means of defense, and then shut up about it. I I I hate to be that way, but if you're smart, that's what you do. The braggart   is the guy in the bar that always gets his teeth knocked in and drug out of the bar. Right?   Every everybody that's a grown ass man that went to bars like that at some point in their life has seen the guy that lifts off   ends up being carried out of the bar with with a tooth missing. That's always the case, and it doesn't change just because the mouthing off is online in today's world.  



[01:12:48] David Bennett:

No. That's yeah. I I get that. And I think that the best thing that that, you know, my family ever did was to get I mean, we were living in Lubbock,   and 250   to 300,000   people was just too big. And,   you know, really, really glad that I did. You know? We're we're out here in in rural America, and I   I understand these people a lot better than what I was starting to see see in Lubbock. And I thought that was you know, from a security standpoint,   that was you know, if if the Zombal horde is really gonna come down the pipe,   then being in a very large city probably is not where you wanna be.  



[01:13:24] Unknown:

Well, in the other side of this idea, like, it's too much TV. Right? That's another Miyagi saying. Right? You are too much at TV. Right? Like, okay. What what's gonna sustain this horde?   How long can this horde survive   when the majority of people in this in this country   don't have enough to provide for themselves for a week?   The parasite can can only be as strong as the host.   There there's not a there's not a a a great sustainability   for the road warrior   mobs or whatever. It makes good movies, but it it it Mhmm. Movies are fantasy,   by by necessity. Nobody wants to watch a movie that's real. We call those chick flicks, and they're incredibly boring.  



[01:14:10] David Bennett:

No. But, again, that's one of the reasons why I had a a, you know, I got a serious appreciation for the way that that you cover preparedness because   all this all that makes sense.   Food. Either be learn how to grow it or learn how to store it, you know, have clean water,   you know, figure out, you know, the like and the thing about sanitation and where where are you gonna poop?   Are you gonna dig a latrine outside? I mean, these are things that you don't think about until the water gets shut off, which doesn't happen that often.   And if it does for a sustained period of time and you're running around going,   oh my god. The the one basic thing that I've been doing since before I can remember memories,   I can't perform that function anymore. And, oh, I'll go dig a hole in the ground outside.  

Well,   you know,   is it too close to the house? You know?  

[01:15:03] Unknown:

These are these are these things that you don't And you don't see any Like, I I I can't dig a hole where I live without equipment and explosives and and what have you. So digging a hole here,   and not that not that easy to do. Now we, we have a hole. It's called a septic system, so I'm not dependent on that. So I'm not real worried about having a crap in a bucket. Right? Because I have rain catch. I have a well. I have a pool. I have ponds.   So as long as if my septic's working, I could dump a five gallon bucket in the back of the the tank even if the well's off   and flush the toilet. But you so you have to design   your resiliency   based on what resources and tools that you have. You have to do an honest   self assessment. And I back to what you were saying about security, I I think if the average person does an honest self assessment,   the fact that somebody could rob them, steal from them, hurt them, break into their home, burn down their house, etcetera, all realistic potential threats.  

I think the idea that,   you know, a bunch of road warriors or zombies or something are gonna come to take their tomatoes from their garden is is not a very realistic threat.  

[01:16:11] David Bennett:

Right. Now all you talk about all this in a shit ton more. I mean, you get you do stuff like education.   You talk you have great guests, and that's all that all that can be found on the survival podcast, which brings us to podcasting. And we're getting up to past an hour,   and so I'm gonna probably have to shorten this one up. Again, I wanna be respectful of your time. But,   when you started podcasting, when you were doing it as an experiment because you had a client   at one of the one of the places that that one of the companies that you were co owning and and working at,   and you were like, well, I I need to figure out how to do this for for this customer, and you started doing it. When was it that you go, you know what?  



[01:16:57] Unknown:

I'm doing this. This is what I wanna do. So, yeah, I had a client that was a financial,   manager who wanted to add to his portfolio a podcast. So,   I went and sat down with him, went through everything, developed a marketing strategy, and and then said, here's what it's gonna cost. And I went to my web developer and said, here's the project. And he said, well, I know how to do all of this except this podcast thing. And I said, I'll go figure it out for you.   And I already had kind of in my mind that maybe this was something I wanted to do. And I had come across a podcaster. And for the love of God, I cannot remember his name, but he was a libertarian political guy, and he was doing a show in his car. I'm like, well, I could do that shit. So I'm like, it's the time that I have. I was putting sixty to sixty five hours a weekend at the office, and I had an hour and a half commute both ways. So what I had was the car time. So I started doing it in my car, and it was just kind of, hey. Like, I need to figure this out. So if I have an audio file and a blog, I can figure out how to make a podcast and get it in iTunes and all so we can now deliver on this promise, this open ended promise I made.   Did the first one,   and it was probably immediate.  

That I was like,   almost everything I've done in my life has led up to this.   Because being   in sales, marketing, being, you know,   regional VP of a company, being,   owner of a company, speaking,   in front of large groups,   I had developed a skill set as a speaker.   And it did take an adjustment. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be because when you're used to speaking in front of groups and now you're speaking in front of a microphone,   and there's no one to like, when you're talking to a crowd and you're losing somebody, you're like, oh, shit. That dude's going to sleep. I better throw a joke in here or whatever. So it took me a while to kind of adjust to that,   but it was as if   my life had trained me through this profession.  

And strangely enough, when I got home at the end of the day,   after being able to my audience,   I didn't wanna punch a hole in a wall anymore.   And it really quickly began   to form in my mind of a plan. So I was like, well, I need a thousand listeners.   Why? Sounds right. You know? It was before the thousand true founds model was a fan. I didn't a thing. I didn't even know that it was a thing anyway. And so I said, I'm gonna get a thousand listeners by the end of my first year, six months. You know? Ended up with 2,000. Took the audience along for a ride and said, hey. Help me do this. And it was all a plan. It was all from the beginning. And now I'm not gonna say it was a plan the week that I decided I was gonna do the podcast.   But the next week when I did episode one, by the end of that week, I was like,   this is gonna work. And I'd actually done it for months before I told my wife about it, like, that I was doing this thing because she's always worried about me. That's one more thing on your plate. I'm just that kinda guy. I'm always doing something. And when I told her about it, I said, you know what? I said, this is gonna work. And and I I said to her, I said, I'm gonna be on Glenn Beck show.  

She said, what? You know, I've been doing this, like, three months now. I've got, like, 500 people listening to me. I'm gonna be on Glenn Beck show. That was a couple years later. We got a call from the Glenn Beck show.   It was it was it was and it wasn't like some, oh, wow. Look at me. It was just like, I know where this is going,   and I could just tell.   And and to be honest with you,   other than being a father and a husband,   there's nothing in my life that I've done as long as I've done this. I've done this almost thirteen years now. And I I've never held a job for more than four or five years.   And most of the the jobs I did were, you know, a couple years, and I get to a point where, like, I can't learn anymore, and I can't make anymore anytime quick, so I'm gonna go do something else. And when I found this, it was   it almost sounds, you know, fruity to say it this way, but it's my life's work. It it really was finding what I was born to do.  



[01:20:54] David Bennett:

Well, how did you affect that reach, you know, through marketing? You said that the thousand true fans model and and you,  

[01:21:01] Unknown:

you gold it you you gold yourself out and said by the end of the first year, I'll have a thousand fans. How'd you go about affecting that? Well, I mean, it doesn't hurt to have first mover advantage. So I was really into the preparedness topic plus lifestyle design. When I looked on, like, iTunes, which is where everything if it weren't on iTunes, it didn't exist as a podcast   in 02/2008. There was nothing good. Yeah. You'd find, like, a preparedness show and you listen to it, and the guy's like, water is very important.   You need to okay. I wanna kill myself already. I can do I can dominate this space. So I picked the niche, and I picked the marking. I picked the the tagline of helping you live a better life if times get tough or even if they don't. That took away the objection   that I don't need this.  

And then, you know, you start to get a few people and you cultivate those people the same way we cultivate plants in an ecosystem.   And when I said, hey. You know, I wanna get to a thousand listeners. So if I get to a thousand listeners and it's so long ago, I'll give away an iPod with a custom inscription on the back of it to one person to help me get there.   So please   tell people about it. Now knowing that people generally don't like to go, hey.   You know what? I listen to this this prepper guy. Right? Like, they don't wanna tell their friends. I knew what they would do. They would go out, and they would post it on message boards and in their blogs and in stuff like that.   So that was   I asked for this, and I know the result will be that.  

And that would not only get a direct effect of traffic to the site, it would, especially at the time when it was an easier not to crack, kick in search engine optimization because how were people going to link to it? They were gonna call what it was, the survival podcast.   So all of a sudden, all of my Internet properties, not just the main site, you put survival podcast into Google, and out of the 10 top results, I had nine of them. And so it was a methodical   marketing plan,   but I I I can't   leave out that you number number two, you gotta be good. You gotta perfect your craft. So, like, I would record in the morning,   get to the office, throw the music on the ends, and upload it, and spend my day running my company.  

At the end of the day, I would get in my car and drive home, and I would listen to my own show from that day.   And and people think, you you must really like the sound of your own voice. No. I was being a dick to myself. Right? So the same way that when you play football in high school and they take, you know, eight millimeter film of it and you watch your game tape, you don't watch it for what you did right. You watch it for what you did wrong.   So I would listen to myself every day and go, boy, you have a you have a placeholder with using the word alright at the end of a sentence, don't you? You need to stop that. Or, oh, the way that you handled that wasn't very good.   Like, oh, you flipped out there and people like when you flip out, but you probably went a little too far this time. Let's rein that back in. So I critiqued myself,   especially those those initial   eighteen months of my car. I was critiquing myself every day,   and I was asking people to come along on the journey with me. I knew if I could get a core group of just even a couple hundred people that really loved what I was doing,   that they would become vested in my success. They they would see   it that my success was their success. They didn't want me to go away. And if I couldn't make money, I was gonna go away. You can't do something sustainably for twelve years for free unless you're independently wealthy.  

So   they had this vested interest in it, and I have people today   that are proud of the fact. I was listening to Jack in 02/2008.   I've been here since 02/2008.   You get that by being loyal to your people, honest with your people,   and putting their needs first at all times.   I didn't take a dime out of it for the first twelve months.   I was twelve months into it for a penny. I had people send me money. I sent it back.   I didn't take a sponsor until I was, like, seven, eight months in. But I'm like, I'm not taking a sponsor when I have, like, 15 people.   You're gonna be pissed. You're gonna give me money. I'm gonna give you no business. Right? Like, it was it was cultivated. I took what I knew about business   and what I knew about permaculture, what I learned about permaculture along the way.  

And I built this business very much on the eight forms of capital model   where I want not just money, but I want social capital.   And I want,   you know, I I I want material capital,   and I want goodwill in the audience spread elsewhere.   And the other thing I did is I created a lot of subcommunities.   We have a Zello channel. We have you know, now we have a Telegram channel that's new, but we created a forum. We created groups in social networks and things like that, and I would create it. I would get some people in there. There'd be some natural leaders that would rise to the top and take over as like moderators and admins, and I do what no brand ever listened to me and ever did when I was a consultant, and it made me miserable.   I let go.  

I let them run it.   People are like, I wanna go viral, but I wanna control it.   Okay. I can't help you. Right? Like, you can't control something. And, like, if you wanna not have something go viral, post it and say, let's make this go viral. That's a guarantee that it's not gonna happen no matter how good it is. You have to let go, so I let go.   I I was comfortable with people talking about what I was doing even critically   at times as long as they were talking about it, and I was at peace with it. And then I just   did   my job.  

New, interesting, engaging content every single day   and never miss. If I was sick, unless I was on my back, I worked through it. And and and that also built   incredible,   loyalty from people.   Like, this guy gives a shit. And and that was a differentiating factor. Like, I'm there's so many people doing podcasts today. Anybody comes up with anything, they they come up with a podcast about it. Like, I was I came at this from the beginning that if I'm not if somebody gets off my show at the end of the show and goes, I wasn't entertained and educated today. I'm not gonna be a success.   That they had to come away with something they could do from every episode.  

And they had and it had to be delivered in some way where they felt under if I didn't make you laugh at least once, I failed.   And and I you know, I I can't give you more than that. I mean, people always say the successful people oversimplify their success. That's because success is simple, but it ain't easy. I mean, it was hard. There was a point when I was building it toward my walk away   from corporate America that I was putting so much into this and so much into my, you know, my my other responsibilities   that my wife barely saw me. And I said, give me six months. Just give me six more months,   and it'll all be worth it. And it took a level of sacrifice   that that seldom are people willing to do. I used to get up at 03:30, four o'clock in the morning   to do my show prep   so that I would be able to get in a car and do a show on the way to to an office an hour away.  

Like, you you and the people that think it's easy, none of them were bumping into me when I was coming down the stairs to my home office to do that.   And so I believe anybody can build this level of success.   If you're passionate about something and you get good at your task and you deliver, but, I mean, especially if you're gonna start out like I did as a side hustle,   that's the commitment it takes.  

[01:28:23] David Bennett:

Yeah. I I start this show at five in the morning. There you go. I stumble I stumble in this damn room, and I start looking for news stories on Bitcoin at five, and and I'm on the air at six.   And it's it's becoming more and more rare that something happens that that I can't do the show because I'm like, shit. Dude, it's five in the morning. There's nothing going on. Yep. If you can get up at five,   you can do a show. I mean, come on, man. But, I wanna make sure before we before we get off this call   that   the people know how to connect with you. So can you it's ShillFest  

[01:29:00] Unknown:

time, bro. Yeah. She'll she'll me all your goods. So, I mean, you can get to everything by going to the survivalpodcast.com   or just search for the survival podcast on any search engines you'll find us. A short domain, if you don't wanna if you're on your phone, especially, you don't wanna type all that shit in, tspc.co.   T s p c Co will take you there. From there, you can connect with me on social media.   You'll find that I no longer am engaged on Twitter and Facebook. I'm tired of being surveilled and reported to the state, so we have active communities on, many of the alternative social media sites. We're happy to engage with you that way. If there's a major podcasting   platform,   I'm on it. So if you search for the survival podcast, iTunes, Stitcher,   etcetera,   I'm there.  

I think we're on Spotify was kind of the last holdout on on some things. I think we're on there too, but,   odds are if you use a podcast,   product or platform, we're on that.   Other than that, you know,   I'm easy to reach. My email address is [email protected].   And make sure you put TSPC in the subject line if you email me with show news. That way, if and when you end up in a junk folder, eventually, I'll I'll dig you out and find you. And, check us out. We've like I said, we've been doing this thirteen years almost.   Two time podcast of the year award winner. We have about a quarter million downloads an episode.  

So we're we're probably doing something right or we wouldn't still be here doing it.  

[01:30:30] David Bennett:

Hell, yeah, man. Now, Jack, don't don't get off the the line, but I'm gonna go ahead and end this thing here.   Jack, I wanna   I wanna say that I appreciate you spending all this time with us today, man. It's,   you know, you never get your time back and and I appreciate it. Thank you so much. No problem.   Jack Spearko is a really good dude man if you have not listened to the survival podcast and you're interested in anything that even remotely looks like   you know gardening permaculture   preparedness   of all manner   All manner of preparedness   then Jack spearco is your go to guy.  

Not only that but he's a he's an infinite resource of other people in the spaces   So, yeah the survival podcast   Now,   I'm trying to get Jack to put survival podcast onto   sphinx.chat.   It's in my opinion, sphinx.chat   right now is the best way and the   I don't know. It's not just it's not really it may not be the best way, but it's the most   pure way that I can think of to support your   favorite podcast,   because it allows you to stream value for value in real time while you're getting the value   of the podcast that you're listening to. And it's a good way to support podcasters.   It's the way that I support my favorite podcasters.  

The way you do this is you go to sphinx.chat.   You get the app. You go to tribes.sphinx.chat,   and then you find the tribe the the tribe that you wanna be a part of. That tribe is basically a collection of people. And if the tribe owner   has slipped their podcast RSS feed into the correct slot, then their podcast becomes available.   If they don't have a podcast, you won't see a spot for podcasts.   If they do have a podcast and they have done all the things and reached for all the stuff,   then their podcast will show up. And then you can set a slider   from 100 Satoshis per minute   all the way down to zero or one or three Satoshis per minute so that you can stream them value. Well, not if you set it to zero, but come on, but you know set it to at least one.  

And that way while you're listening to the podcast at the same time you're giving them value They're giving you value in my opinion.   It's probably the purest way   and In the most interesting way and the most   the best glimpse of what's coming to us in the future   if you want to support somebody's podcast. And I would I would enjoy it if you would support this podcast   through that function.   Because for me, there's just there's something about it that it just makes   sense. So I'm trying to get,   Jack to do it. Now here's the funny thing. Jack's heard about Sphinx Chat once.   Okay. That's his his first touch.  

He thought at the time that there's no way that this could work because he was thinking that we were talking about on chain transactions   and I made sure that he understood that this has nothing to do with on chain transactions until you want to close your lightning channel,   that this is in fact streaming satoshis   in real time   on the lightning network   and then if whatever reason you need to close that channel and drive the value out of it you could do that later but for the you know for the interim   while value for value streaming is occurring it's actually occurring over the lightning network   So that was the second touch that Jack Spierko had   for the Sphinx chat app.  

And I'm hoping that because I was talking to him directly that   it doesn't take seven touches for him   to get his podcast over considering that it's just I mean, it's really easy. If you have a podcast and you wanna put on Sphinx chat, dude, go to sphinx.chat,   get the app, and then if you don't wanna mess with,   setting up your own lightning node or setting up   setting it up to work with your own lightning node,   you can rent a node from them if they have any available. That would last time I looked, they had they didn't have any available, but they were spending some up.   I rented mine for 79¢.  

I mean, come on. It's dirt. It was dirt cheap at the time, and it was and I did mine around the same price that we're at right now, which is 18,290.   Yeah. We got some FUD going on. I won't get into it. I'll talk about that shit tomorrow when I do the news.   79¢   I got I got myself a lightning node, rented it for the month,   just so that I could figure all this stuff out. You know? You know, they give you instructions on how to do it with your own lightning node, but, you know, it it it can be a little difficult. In either event with that, I'm thinking that Jack, I'm gonna email him today with more information like the, you know, the actual, you know, links to the websites and,   you know, it made the instruction sets and all that kind of shit.  

And I'm hoping that very soon I'll be able to stream Jack Spierko's   Satoshi's while I listen to his podcast   named the survival podcast   at the same time that he's giving me the information. I'm giving him value. It's value for value transfer.   And also, I I don't think he understands that Adam Curry, the pod father, is connected to all this,   through podcast two point o. If you don't know what I'm talking about or who Adam Curry is,   just Google podcast two point o, and you will find everything you need, and you can dive down that rabbit hole if you want. While you're doing that, I will see you on the other side.   This has been Bitcoin, and and I'm your host, David Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and hope to see you again real soon.  

Have  

[01:36:29] Unknown:

a   great   day.