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This episode was originally recorded back in April of 2021. It's an oldie but a goodie.

Revolutionize farming with my friend Untapped Growth and regenerative agriculture: sustainable practices, eco-friendly methods, and decentralized networks for a resilient food future and profitable investments.

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[00:00:00] David Bennett:

Good morning. This is David Bennett, and this is Bitcoin Ant, a podcast where I try to find the edge effect between the worlds of Bitcoin, gaming, permaculture,   podcasting, and education to gain a better understanding of all. Edge effect is a concept from ecology describing a greater diversity of life where the edges of two systems overlap.   While species from either system can be found at the edge, it is important to note there are species in the overlap that exist in neither system, and that is what I seek to uncover. So join me in discovering the variety of things being created as Bitcoin rubs up against other systems.  

[00:00:44] David Bennett:

It is 05:44AM   central daylight time. It is April Fool's Day,   by the way. It's the 04/01/2021.   Be careful   on all social media today, people.   Everything you see is probably gonna be a lie,   but not today's show. Alright? Today's show is a interview that I did with Untapped Growth that is at   Untapped Growth   on Twitter.   If you haven't been following them, you need to be following them because   Bitcoin is seeping   into   every aspect   of our modern world. Okay? What I mean by that is simply that   Bitcoin is more than just a payment system. It's more than a store of values. It's more than a medium of exchange.   It's it   it does other things. It enables   people to do other things.  

One of the things that I'm the most interested in   is agriculture,   specifically   regenerative agriculture,   and that's where   we come in today's show with Untapped Growth,   who is releasing or rather has released   the untappedgrowth.com   website.   Welcome to the movement, bro.   So what is it? Well, we're gonna get into we're gonna get into it in the in the show, and this is a long one, guys. This is, like, well over an hour and a half of of interview, which is why I'm not gonna do anything else. But I do wanna describe this website.   Basically speaking,   you it's a it's a choose your own story.  

You can chew go to untappedgrowth.com   and check it out, but you can either be an investor   or you can decide to be the homestead rancher.   Right? And this is all about grazing cattle either on your own land,   leased land.   Untapped is set it up to where there's   contracts and and structure behind how to get into regenerative agriculture   either as an investor   or a homestead rancher, okay, depending on what path you wanna pick.   But what he's doing is he's   it's   when he described it to me, it was almost as if he took a play he took a page from Michael Sailor's playbook   and basically just laid everything out for you so that you know what to do, you know where to go, you know what a con this you know, a cattle contract looks like, you know you know things. Okay? So that's   the the launch of his website, which I think it went live last night,   is this is not to be missed.  

If you have been thinking   that you wanna get out of the city, but you don't know what the hell to do, this is one of the things that you can do.   And   regenerative agriculture   is it seeks to do a couple of things. One is make a living. Right? And make a living that's,   you know, not an aerospace   engineer that's having to, you know, pretty much live their entire life in Clear Lake, Texas or something like that around the Houston area.   Being in a building and wearing a suit and tie, and if if you're getting bored with with the way modern life is,   you might wanna look into regenerative agriculture, getting back out on the land   with your family,   away from the large cities,   and start living life   essentially the way I think humans were meant to live life. We've lied to ourselves for so long.  

We have created such an   unfun environment   in this   existence where you have to worry about   doing your taxes because that shit's coming up. Right?   You have to worry about, oh, making bills and   and getting the job and go go into the school to so that you can go get a job. Of course, that's not true. Any you know? It's you never went to college to actually go get a job. But   I think humans are coming to this nexus point   where a lot of humans are just they're just done.   But we've we've blocked off all these avenues to go do something else and not starve to death.   You know, it's feeling   trapped.  

This is one way out.   The regenerative agriculture movement is one of the most important movements   I've ever seen because it seeks to heal two things at once,   The human condition   as well as the soil that we depend on because   I gotta tell you man, unless you're drilling for it or strip mining it,   every single piece of wealth   that has occurred on this planet   is because there's six inches of topsoil   and the fact that it rains.   It has made all the wealth. We've been destroying the soil in modern conventional commodity style agriculture   for decades.  

This regenerative agriculture movement   heals that soil   and makes it better   and uses animals to do it. So without further ado as an efficiency we're just gonna pick it up  

[00:05:52] Untapped Growth:

with untapped growth. To the expense of, like, a real deeper integration of heart into being in a way that's not good for the human psyche. Right?   Right. Like like, we like Paul on the call, we talked a lot about,   like, this whole anti meat agenda of, like, killing animals is cruel.   Uh-huh. But, like, real humans, we understand, like like, like, unless the seed falls into the ground and dies, it'll bear no fruit. Uh-huh.   And   so, like, all life flows from death.   Like, love's the same way. Right? I mean Mhmm. No kid loving this and a man lays down his life for another. I mean, that's brotherhood. That's family. That's what we do for our children and our wives. Like,   that's part of being human. Right? Right. And part of that   respect for life itself to me is integrated in the butchering of animals. Now I've never done it. I expect it to be very profound for me when I do because, like, this is how I feel about things. But, like Right.  

Their death is the gift that needs to be honored because they're giving their life so that I may live. Like, that's   that's a privilege that we should not take for granted   that we get that role   as stewards over creation like that.   Like, we need to take that seriously and live worthy of that gift,   even the gift of the life of the animal itself.  

[00:07:15] David Bennett:

Well, get it's also the gift of the animal's action, not, you know, through the through the life of the animal comes the ability for that animal to act upon its environment. But remember what we were talking about   with the whole gut thing. Thing. And you're eating the you're literally eating the information that is around you so that your body knows its place.   You know, that it that makes it it it has a sensible grounding   in the climate, the environment, the temperature, the humidity.   Everything about what's going on is your body's literally a sensor for, you know and if you confuse that sensor by giving it stuff from something 500 miles away. Okay? So what I'm thinking   is that   as bovines go through and they mow the grass, as chickens go through and they pick up insects   and any seed heads they find that is not imported,   and, I mean, I I buy bags of seed at tractor supply. I mean,   I I I'm gonna I'm gonna do that.  

I guarantee you that shit is not from here. But in in a ideal situation, I'd be growing millet that is a landrace   somewhere, like, you know, on an acre or whatever.   And, you know, millet,   maybe some corn,   whatever, and those plants pick up the the mineral quotient that's on the land right there. And then the chickens eat that, and they process that information   in a primary way. Well, actually, the plants process the information in a primary way, then the chickens process reprocess the same information in the secondary way, and then we kill the chicken. And then that meat in a tertiary fashion informs us of everything from what's under the earth   to what's over the earth and to where we are because I really believe that the gut is more than it's like   all that neurology. You don't need all that neurology in your gut. It's not firing.  

It's not firing muscles. Why is it there? And one of the first things that I learned as a biologist was that life is not capricious.   It doesn't just do shit.   You know, it's not like, I mean, it it it does do shit insofar as it'll throw mutations   just as a way to make sure that if something happens, you got a backup plan insofar as,   you know, you got a,   offspring that that has webbed feet and the creature itself isn't supposed to have webbed feet and yet a flood comes, guess who survives to pass on its genes. Right? So it's capricious sort of that way, but it's just building in redundancy, and I don't kind of include that as capriciousness.   So there's a reason that neurology is in the gut. I don't know why, but it's becoming more and more evident as I read more and more that the   people in academic level scientific community are starting to really start wondering,   why is it so near related? Because you don't need near that much neurology down there. So something's going on.  

And I get the feeling that we I think food allergies and all this shit   is a direct response from eating stuff that is not where you live. And I wouldn't say Yeah. And I wouldn't ever tell anybody, okay. You gotta stop going to the grocery store and you have you have to eat the food.   And and I I I'm gonna buy a decree. Okay. Well, fuck you. I you know, I don't I don't need that shit. But at least some level of awareness and education that says you might wanna stop and just start thinking about it. You don't have to stop doing what you're doing,   but you   maybe it'd be you know, it's time to start thinking about changing shit, and we're in the middle of a sea change.  

There is nothing to stop this now.   I mean, there was a tweet yesterday that said,   Bitcoin already won. You're just figuring it out, you stupid motherfucker.   And I'm like, it's not the only thing that's already won.   I you know?   I don't know. But   I that's why that's why I'm so damn hopeful all the time. You know? It's like somehow or another, I'd like there's a thing in the back of my mind that says, you should be shit all scared, and I'm like, but I'm not.   I just I'm not.  

[00:11:22] Untapped Growth:

Yep.   Yeah. I think of that too because it's almost like it's a two way street where the gut speaks to the brain, but the brain also speaks to the gut.   Because you got the web of all this, like, microbiome going on down inside of you too. Uh-huh. And   your   being and your emotions that you cultivate inside of yourself   also feed into what bacteria and things grow in your gut.   Right. Just like the what the byproduct of the bacteria produce affect your emotions. It's not a one way dynamic.   Like, like, I had a buddy who had a pretty serious mold exposure, and I I went through a similar experience.   And we we kinda had this joke about, like,   mold creates this psyche that is like a sense of impending doom when you actually have living mold trying to impregnate your body. Right.  

It's just like the psychological effect of its biotoxins.   Now   I believe that that sense of impending doom when you channel that as an emotion,   it gives the mold a stronger foothold on your biology.   Part of winning the battle against the mold infection is literally doing meditative type work   where you counteract   that sense of impending doom the mold's putting on your biology.   Mhmm. And you impregnate your cells with poop   through will.   And that in itself   helps strip the infection from your body. I mean, one of my buddies, like, he literally like, his doctor is like, you should be dead. I don't know why it hasn't killed you yet. He's like, because I have a will and I know how to use it. It. I get the battle.   Like, biologically, looking at all the tests, it should've killed me, but I ain't went and it went. I ain't done yet.  



[00:13:02] David Bennett:

Was this a black was this a black mold thing?   Yeah. Yeah. That that shit is that shit could be terrible, man. It's a, what, aspergillus or something, I think?  

[00:13:12] Untapped Growth:

I can't remember the particular. He actually had it where it's truly growing in his sinuses. You could take a scrape from his sinuses and it would, like, grow on a petri dish.  

[00:13:20] David Bennett:

Yeah. My wife went before she was my wife, we were dating. She was working at a laboratory, and it was a it was a my   it was a mycology lab, and they were specifically studying black mold. And the safety measures that they had in place, she's like, this this place was, like, insane.   It's it was just   they were like   everybody was really tremendously careful, not only with their own shit, but with other people's shit. Like, you know, they were constantly going, you're you're doing that wrong. You're doing that wrong. And, you know, it's like, we're not trying to get on you, but this shit can kill. And it could kill you, and you fucking up can kill me. And but that's not gonna happen in this lab. And she worked there for a year, and she's like, some of the shit she saw, it was   that's when I was like, I took black mold very seriously after that. Because at first, I I didn't know enough about it. And I was like, it's just mold. And she's like, once I met her and started hanging out with her, she's like, no, man. You don't wanna have any part of this. It it's like the the toxins that it throws off is is a neurotoxin, and it'll just mess your ass up straight as day.  



[00:14:25] Untapped Growth:

It's bad. It's real bad. Like, that that kind of I was having a thought yesterday.   I actually fed my cow smell fafa that the horse farm was just trash. They'd left it in one of the old run ins on the concrete floor. Uh-huh. And so it concrete's porous. Right? It soaked up all the water from the ground. And so the hay practically rotted. Like, it was just worthless hay as far as horse people are concerned. Right. But my mouth actually broke into one of their run ins, ate all their junk hay Uh-huh. That will, like,   I'm like, I did not I say broke in. I did not fence them out of it because I didn't think they'd do any harm. Yeah. And, I didn't actually even think they'd eat it. They break into it, and they ate all that shit. Oh.  

And they freaking loved it. Like, they went ham for it. Like, almost like they do for the fermented food I feed them. That's like a fermented haylage. Uh-huh. They didn't eat all of it. They pick through it. Right. But it a lot of, like, fungus and stuff in it too. Yeah. And I'm, like, looking at these cows, like, maybe they just know. Maybe they know that some of this is good for them because I watched them sniff it. They lick it. They push them out of the way. Like, I I wonder if the, like, the low level with some of the infection stuff in it, they, like, training their immune system type thing. Mhmm. And, like, so I'm like, oh, I was like, fuck it. So I was like, what other bad pay do you guys got? And I went and collected it all and fed it to them yesterday.  

[00:15:40] David Bennett:

How much did you get how much did you get off him?  

[00:15:44] Untapped Growth:

Like, six, eight bales so far that I found. Like, just just scattered around in run ins. Square bales or roll bales? Yeah. Little little square bales. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I could pay it worth of food. Right?   But I couldn't help but think, like, I wonder if this is, like, in a sense, is gonna make these cows code the information for more environmental resilience to decay type substances.  

[00:16:06] David Bennett:

I can't I mean, it you know, what well, first of all, whatever doesn't kill them is definitely gonna inform them in a better way. I mean, it's like this sort of that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. In this particular case, I think we're talking about a situation where what whatever doesn't kill you   gives you information.   And I was like, I I I'm starting to see   I'm starting to see all this stuff as   as almost pure information.   You know? Because, essentially,   you know, like, I don't know, like a molecule of methane,   CH four,   you know, one carbon, four hydrogen. And when you get down to the base layer of each of those particular atoms, you're talking about pure energy.  

So we got energy that's formed up into a way that set up   at one, at some scale, it turns into like a substance that has these properties and then they start connected together and then they form,   you know,   mega, you know, mega properties.   And then they form together and it like, again, it's it's fractal stuff and it's like   but energy in a pattern by definition   is information.   Mhmm.   I can't get away from this idea. I I mean, I it has never once I once I finally started   once I   once I thought about it the first time,   it it never left me. And it and it probably never will, not until the day I die. Because I I'm like, I'm starting to become a firm believer that   our eyes have been closed   to a great many things for   a great amount of time.  

And we're in they called it like the what the enlightenment was also called the awakening.   I think I think we're in a reawakening at this point.   And I don't know exactly when it was we went to sleep. I don't maybe it was   I'm trying to think when that, when that could have been when people were just getting stupid. And I'm,   I'm thinking it kind of co you know, coalesces around the late eighteen hundreds,   like, you know, eighteen nineties getting into '19, especially 1913,   the formation of the fed.   For what was it? All of three years, four years later, we were in World War one,   and it's been a century of war.  

You know, every it's just nothing but war ever since.   And I tried, you know, like my sister gets   gets Bitcoin now, but she didn't. And at the time that she didn't, I just, like, looked at her and I go, the fed was formed in 1913.   How long did it take us to go to war?   She's like, it doesn't have anything to do with it. And I'm like, bullshit. Oh, yeah. Everything   to do with it. It's like and and I'm like, Robin, we have never left that war.   It's like that war has never ended.   It's like they told us it ended, but it's never ended. You know? It doesn't doesn't make financial sense for these guys.   Anyway so   well, on your operation, how many acres are like, are you managing anyway?  



[00:19:02] Untapped Growth:

On this little farm I'm leasing,   we've got 28 acres of pasture.   I've got   probably about 30 ish that I've got, like, a rule set that I'm managing for wildlife rather than grazing maximization of forage. Uh-huh. So I'm the cows to come through and clean up, like, the forage so it doesn't, like, shade itself out during the growing seasons. Right. And then I leave it with, like,   trying to time it so the forages at peak nutrition capacity during deer kind of breeding and calving seasons. Yeah.   Kind of also trying to benefit some of the local bird wildlife and stuff as well.   And then I've got probably about 50 acres just of just scrub woods I'm gonna eventually convert over to silvopasture.  



[00:19:45] David Bennett:

You're gonna clear that out with pigs first?  

[00:19:49] Untapped Growth:

Nah. I'm gonna go in with a pencil and just spin up trees and then just throw the cows in. These cows are like park goat.   They won't bother them at all.  

[00:20:00] David Bennett:

Nice, man. Nice. So how long have you been how long have you been doing this operation?  

[00:20:05] Untapped Growth:

Started in October.  

[00:20:07] David Bennett:

Oh, so   not long.  

[00:20:10] Untapped Growth:

Mm-mm. Not long at all. About it for a long time, but just this opportunity with the cheap land lease   kinda came to fruition about a year and a half ago. Took a little while to get it going. Yeah. I'm I'm leasing all that land for a buck a year.  

[00:20:23] David Bennett:

What? A a dollar?  

[00:20:25] Untapped Growth:

Yes. A dollar.  

[00:20:28] David Bennett:

God dang it.  

[00:20:31] Untapped Growth:

That's amazing, man. A top bucket year, man. So the benefit the mutually beneficial agreement here   is it's a farm for recreational horsemanship,   and there are a bunch of people that, like, are into natural stuff.   And with recreational horses, you do not get your land account as agriculture.  

[00:20:48] David Bennett:

Uh-huh.  

[00:20:49] Untapped Growth:

So she's paying residential tax rates on a 60 acres. Oh. They have, like, 12 horses with all these old people, and they have to mow all this land with tractors. It's just a pain in the ass. Yeah. So now I'm coming in. It counts as agriculture again. So she's got almost $10 less per carry cost on her property per year.   She's got less work. She doesn't have to spend all the fuel mowing. Doesn't have to do the mowing or pace may also do the mowing. And now her soil and whole property is being improved by me, and she's happy as a client.   Yeah. So, like, it's almost like she should be paying me. I mean, like, she's just as happy as could be about it.  



[00:21:24] David Bennett:

Yep. That heard that same story from Greg Judy.   Yep. Bingo. And it's like, you know you know who he is. So,   yeah, he does   he's sort I think he's sort of like the progenitor of this entire, you know, this model of of leasing and then running.   Because he gets   he pays for the lease, and then he gets paid   on he gets paid more money to actually graze somebody else's cattle. And, you know, it's it's an amazing situation.   And there was this one story that he told at Permaculture Voices three in San Diego, and he said and he's told it before, but I heard it first in at PV 3.   And he said   he had leased a a whole bunch of land and,   the,   he was running cattle over it. You know, he was doing his thing. He'd set out these, you know, electro fencing and was doing rotational grazing and all that. And, about a year later, I think it was about a year later,   the owner came up to him and he said or went to his house and said, Greg, I need to see the contract our contract.  

And, Greg said, okay. And he just gave him the gave him the contract and the dude ripped it up in front of him.   And he said and and Greg was he was said that he was really shocked. He's like, oh, shit. I guess he's gonna kick me off his land.   And,   Greg asked me, he said, is this the end? What did I do? And he said, no. No. No. No. You have a lifelong lease now.   He's like, why? Because it was supposed to be for, like, five years. And he's like,   you're here for as as as long as you want   or until until the day you die. He's like, we're writing a new contract. The day I die, my children are not allowed to kick you off this land. And he asked why, and he goes, look what you've done to the place. He turned a blown out hayfield   in, like, two years, and all of a sudden, it was put back to pasture   for doing nothing but managing cattle. Not just putting the cattle on the ground and just walking away and then, you know, taking them to a feedlot, doing the way that we the way that we normally do at the end of the season.  

He   intensely,   I hate the word intensive because it it makes it sound like you have to be there watching the cows   all the time and you can't do anything else. And it's like, no, that's not intensive management at all. Intensive just means that you're very   focused   on how long have the cows been in that plot in that particular paddock? Two days.   Let's go check it out. Look at the grass. See if they need to be moved.   If the answer is no, leave one more day. If the answer is yes,   take down the, you know, take down a part of the fence, move into the new paddock, put the fence in behind them,   walk away.  

Go play a video game.   Yeah. And then   big and and because of that and this is like I'm reading I was telling you in in the, chat that I was read started reading Allan Savory's   holistic management third edition. And I started reading it two days ago, and I'm   I'm already, like,   blown away. And I had to build up to this book, by the way. Then I I read a lot of books that, like, I went the way that I built up to this particular book because it's, like, 550   pages.   Yeah. This thing is a tome written by one of the most brilliant people in this field that there will ever be.   And I'm like, I I gotta work up to this. So I went to went to Amazon and saw what other people bought when they were looking at that book   and started going from there. And when I've read you had mentioned that I can't remember the name of the book, but you had asked me if I had read it. I'm like, no. It was like another book about grazing and soil management.  

And I read that thing and finished it a couple of days ago, and it's it's definitely well worth it. But after I finished that one, I'm like, dude, I'm ready. And I read the first chapter of Allan Savory's book, and I'm like,   I'm all in because his holistic management can be applied to   cattle   and soil health and ecosystems   and all that.   But it's just as applicable   to put it into the context of running   a computer game company   in the exact same way.   It translates   from   soil   to office   to entrepreneurship   to managing teams of people   to it could probably even be used to manage teams of robots when we get some kind of interconnected mesh AI.  

It would not surprise me   in the least.   And, you know, that heuristic.  

[00:25:46] Untapped Growth:

Do what? It's a good heuristic.  

[00:25:49] David Bennett:

It is. And   like I said, I'm   I've reading this thing last night. I can't put it down.   I read until like it was damn near 01:00 in the morning before I got, got to bed. And then I had to wake up at five, you know, to do the, do the morning podcast. And I was like,   like, this book's gonna kill me.   But, you know, it's it's it it lays out a lot of stuff about   how to think about what management actually looks like. You know, what is it what questions are you asking?   You know? And and what goals do you have in mind? And   I'm like, it it seems it actually starts making these problems easier to think about.  

Like,   oh, I gotta go, you know, like somebody wants to do this and I'm guilty of it too where I'm like,   would I be able to? You know, would I be able to actually, you know, do this? Because I'm looking at the at the thing is   all the separate things that has to happen   without and which is the holistic management you're supposed to look at the whole.   Mhmm. But it's also, like, allows you to say, okay. We'll start whipping out the each individual problem   by itself   and get to the whole.   And by the time that you get to the whole,   every part of management is already under   under under control. It's not not under control, but   but understood. That's that's the point. Point. Yeah. You can't control everything, but you can damn near understand almost anything. And if you can understand it, you got a hell of a lot better chance of recovering when shit goes wrong.  

Mhmm.   So have you noticed soil changes already?  

[00:27:33] Untapped Growth:

I mean, I got some huge pasture benefits just from doing some intentionally timed mowings before the cows got there. Right. I mean, that was a huge plus.   I've had the cows on the land since October, so this is gonna be my first growing season after having any, like, grazing pressure with some manureing on some of these sections of the property.  

[00:27:50] David Bennett:

Mhmm.  

[00:27:51] Untapped Growth:

But I'm already getting some really good, like,   pasture growth in some of the winter areas I trampled.   I didn't put any seed down minus the hay I fed, just let the cows trampled or, like, activate whatever's in the soil bank Yeah. And then fed up onto that hay of the max queue I wanted to come in.   And that stuff's coming in like crazy. I mean, a little bit of rain, a little bit of sunshine. It's already looking pretty good.   Yeah. So we'll see, like, after the first season or two, how well it's doing.  

[00:28:16] David Bennett:

So   at the end of like, so what's your cycle length? And by cycle length, I mean, from the time   that   you you started in October.   How how to put this with that put this politely. When do you get paid   and how?  

[00:28:35] Untapped Growth:

Yep. So   my   first calf is not gonna be born until almost a year after I got these cows. Right? Okay. You got gestation period of, like, eight months.   These piney woods are slow finishing,   which is from an information coding standpoint, like we're talking about, it's a good thing. More time to gather information. Right?   They take about thirty months to feed out for butchery.   So my payback period on these cows from, like, October out, it's almost four years.   Okay?   But   from   a business standpoint,   I'm trying to account for this in animal wealth as a long time preference investment rather than just cash flows.   And for something where I'm putting in five to six hours a week,   it's not a bad investment for increasing animal wealth over those kind of time frames for me. The payback period is not really what I'm taking, like, as my main kind of focus here,   if that makes sense.  



[00:29:32] David Bennett:

Oh, it it absolutely does make sense. But I know that there's there's gonna be people out there that wanna do this,   and they're gonna wanna figure out a way to make it, you know, make it a living. And I think   where we're at right now in in   agriculture is that it's it's been so far removed   from just regular people   that   we can't even really wrap our minds around.   Well, how the hell   does how the hell do you make a living? Because we we know what commodity farming looks like, and we have a damn good idea of what the payout is   on that. You either get a good crop, a moderate crop, and you get paid at the silo   after you harvest.  

Covers all your fuel, all your labor. And if it's a bumper crop, you got a shit ton of money left over, but you're still exporting   all of the fertility off your field. So you've got a decline that's just you're you're just gonna hit it.   I don't know when, but there's gonna be a carrying capacity at which the chemistry set of a commodity farm,   you can't put any more inputs into it, and it's just gonna fall off the cliff. But for right now, we, we, I don't think we've hit that yet, but I think we're getting real close.   So, you know, I think that the idea here is   how to come up with like a plan.  

And Greg Judy has a good one,   but for, like, Bitcoiners and people that are in Austrian economics and stuff like that, is there an adjustment that could be made that people can go do this, do you think? Or is it always gonna be a situation where you best have best better have a day job   or just don't do it? I mean, is it just is it a trap? Is it you know, what do you think about that?  

[00:31:11] Untapped Growth:

Okay. So from, like, the big crop producers, I I sent you the thing with Advance and Eco.   Uh-huh. If you think about plants,   soil and plants is a two way street.   The plant the soil feeds the plants. We've always kinda thought about that and know that. But the plants also feed the soil,   which is what advancing HECO is getting into. Right? How do we use foliar sprays to maximize plant health so they're photosynthesizing   at full capacity   to put root exudates into the soil to capture carbon from the air to build soil just while they're growing. Right? Mhmm.   So they're actually getting this huge crop reductions where   they're building soil year in and year out with their crop rotations,   where their plants are higher quality. They're they're better nutrition. They last for longer,   higher yields on their crops, lower input cost, and the soils are getting better every year, year in and year out. So, like, even crop producers, these problems are being solved.  

My grading stuff.   What I'm trying to do is help scale people from zero to actually do it. Right? Mhmm. And so what I'm gonna do is I'm exploiting   mutually beneficial incentives and competitive advantages in the marketplace,   where   doing the grazing like this,   it's really low effort as far as time per week. I mean, five, six, seven hours a week. So easy, easy part time job. Mhmm. Okay. That boomer's fixed. It doesn't matter whether it's 20 cows or 200 cows. It's still the same amount of time. So the larger your scale, the more money you make.   Okay.  

If   I can get a low time preference rancher who's willing just to do that as a part time job for the sake of being ranching and kinda like building animal wealth and all that over time Mhmm. And have a low time preference investor who's going to buy the herd just for the sake of having animals on a long time frame as well,   now you're off the ground and running. Okay? Mhmm. But when you numbers, I mean, each of these cows is yielding about a thousand dollars of income a year once you're up to go   because the carry cost is so low.   So if you've got one guy, five to six hours a week, if you can get his herd up to 200, two hundred and 50 head, that farm's spitting off 200 to $250   a year.  

Not bad. No. Okay.   So but that's a part time job. That's five, six hours a week. Right. If you have him as a manager, he wanna do this full time, he could drive an hour or two around the different properties owned by different land trusts to run multiple herds.   He could run five, six, seven different farms at one time.  

[00:33:39] David Bennett:

Right. So this would be like a model like like a property manager.   Because I don't like, you know, there's a couple of, you know, my family   when my dad died, we had to,   dissolve well, not we didn't dissolve any of the companies, but we basically had to figure out where to put extra cash   and stuff like that. And it ended up going into a couple of condos in,   Santa Fe and,   and there's another property in Colorado. And,   we rent these things out, but I don't rent them out. I hired a guy to do that.   And this almost sounds like it's the same management model. And we go back to Allan Savory's holistic management.   It's like, what's the goal? I wanna you know, I want this property to be profitable.  

You know? And   and then find somebody that can actually make that happen because there has to be hands on the ground, and I'm not in Santa Fe, New Mexico.   Although, I'd I rather like Santa Fe. I don't wanna live there. But, I mean, it's a beautiful place. I I I dig it. I will never live there, though. It just   I I I might consider living outside of it. But if I was gonna live that close, I would just go to Southwestern Colorado where I'm where I feel more at home. But Mhmm. You know, given all that,   totally lost my train of thought, man, because I get it I get into these discussions about regen ag, and and   I just lose my mind.  

Kent, let's  

[00:35:05] Untapped Growth:

So so run it run it as an income. Like, how can you do agriculture in a way that provides, like, careers for people? Yeah. So if you have that farm manager running all those properties,   I mean, you could easily spit off a mill, mill and a half for that one ranch manager if you have enough land and animal capital.  

[00:35:22] David Bennett:

Yeah.  

[00:35:23] Untapped Growth:

Doing a low input, like, low lease cost, low, like,   easy rough rugged animal type system like we're doing.  

[00:35:31] David Bennett:

Right.  

[00:35:32] Untapped Growth:

So totally possible.   But what we're leveraging with this decentralized grazing network   is   people that can do this as a part time gig who have, like, either other careers or remote work   and are willing to do this on a long time preference. They're just working   until they get animal yield. You're working for animal yield rather than USD salary.  

[00:35:53] David Bennett:

Yeah.   So   now when it comes time for when it comes time for harvest, because cows on grass   is about eighteen months to two years, whereas in a CAFO,   confined animal feeding operation,   it's about one year. Right?   So more or less. At least that's that's the numbers that I hear from the people around my neck of the woods, which is the Panhandle Of Texas. And it's a pretty brittle environment.   And because it's dry, you know, and stuff like that. So   so the thing is is that   if you can eat that first year,   then it wouldn't be   it wouldn't be too I don't think it would be too much of a management problem to have, like, a one year old herd and a two year old herd   and running those together on a single ranch, but making sure that they're separated   or somehow identifiable.  

And if they aren't identifiable and you have to run it, or if they are identifiable and you can run them all at once and then call them out, like, at the end,   then they can just go into a paddock altogether. But if you can't, then two separate paddocks and they never end up on the same paddock in the same year unless your grass growth   is really intensive.   And you have to go regraze in the same season. But what what I'm getting at is that if you can eat that first year, then you can just stagger your herds. I mean, is that Yeah.  

[00:37:16] Untapped Growth:

Okay. Okay. Because that's what I was thinking. Well, you can even you can even start staggered if you wanted to. It has some gun, like, yearling steers and stuff thrown in the herd. I didn't because I put all her up from capital into heifers, taking a long time preference view.  

[00:37:30] David Bennett:

Right. That   so what what so you're talking about stalkers. Right?   Like, stocking cattle? You you stalk the cattle in? Which I've heard it termed as, stalkers.  

[00:37:42] Untapped Growth:

Like, you like, stalk cattle. And Yep. So I'm doing a cow calf operation where I got the bull and the females raising them off the jump.   I've considered selling yearlings to stocking operations.   That's part of the reason Poof and I, Bitcoin and Cows, are talking about doing a hybrid cattle line, kinda we're calling the Bitcoin beef breed. Right. Because if they cross it with something that's   correct first principle, it's good on just forage, low input type breed. It's something that pulls the hurt the horns off the f one generation.   Now you can actually sell that back into the feedlot industry or the stocker industry and actually get pretty good prices for them versus these heritage breeds.  

They don't   they don't like the horns.   Really? Okay. You can actually make good money doing that as well. Because, like,   a lot of our animal, like the CAFO industry or just a lot of just modern grazing in general, ranching in general, it's all about,   like, yield per animal,   which is just the wrong number. We got these EPDs and, like, the growth rate per day and all this kind of stuff, but it's just the wrong it's   it's efficiency solved for the wrong parameter.   Yeah. What really matters is meat produced per acre,   and that's not what we talk about. No. Like, the whole heritage breeds that finish slower, my meat produced per acre, my efficiency for food input turned into meat is incredible.  

It blows all these people out of the water, but it's just slower.   Yeah. It's just a matter of, like, are you willing to take a long time frame view and just wait a little while for those steers to grow up?  

[00:39:13] David Bennett:

Yeah. And so this actually brings me to the question of when when it comes when it does come time to harvest,   what do you do? I mean   I mean, are you gonna kill them on-site and and do the butchering yourself?   And is that your plan? Or  

[00:39:28] Untapped Growth:

So currently,   like, the whole   highly regulated butchering industry is part of the problem. Right? All the incentives are designed to benefit the big producers,   and the producers that are raising these kinds of meat that are the problem. These kinds of animal genetics that are the problem.   Wyoming and Thomas Massey and,   Caitlin Long are working on it over there, but those walls haven't gone across the country yet. Mhmm.   What we're doing,   which is kind of on the edge of Lee Gaffney, I'm selling them as live animals,   and we're having the people come out and butcher them themselves.  



[00:40:04] David Bennett:

Mhmm.  

[00:40:06] Untapped Growth:

Where I have a buddy who's a head butcher at, like, a local place,   and he'll, like,   walk them through the butchering.   Yeah. It's more like libertarian type processing.   We can get away with it right now or a small farm. As this whole thing scales,   that's part of why we're looking at the hybrid cattle line because then we could just sell them to the stocker industry versus have to go direct to market and have to butcher so many animals. So it allows you to scale the numbers on the operation in a better way. You don't even have to keep them to age them on your own property. You can sell them as year liens to kinda increase your turnover speed. Right.   Got you. Get them finishing faster as a hybrid too. So  

[00:40:46] David Bennett:

if you weren't doing that, if you if you weren't,   quote, unquote,   libertarian   meat processing issue,   and you and you had to find another way, like, you had actually had to take them,   you'd end up having to take them to USDA,   inspected.   How far away is the like, if have you looked to see how far away yours is, your nearest USDA inspected one is? I've not. I'm betting it's super far. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking is that and that's one of the things that makes it damn near impossible. Here in Eastern Virginia.   Yeah. And there's there's, you know, a lot of a lot of talk about, you know,   a USDA inspected   and certified   mobile   kill floor and put you know, an an abbot well, an abbotoir is, you know, basically what we're talking about is where you kill the animal and then and then process the whole damn thing. And done on a mobile scale, nobody   nobody has done one yet that I know of. Have you heard of anything like that?  



[00:41:43] Untapped Growth:

I've heard of people doing it. I don't know if anybody's being successful. I think a few are. Uh-huh. You still have the whole legislation issue of, like, they have a really hard time getting operations going to upfront cost to check on the boxes is so high.   It's just almost not worth the upfront capital.   Okay. So that's something that's everything is consolidating   around these giant meat processors. It's just another regulatory   issue.  

[00:42:06] David Bennett:

Yeah. And, again, that's that centralization   issue is gonna kill us all. You know? I whether through whether through poison or just choking out somebody who can't   they can't go ranch   because of the regulations, so they have to go find the job that they that is the soul sucking job, which makes everybody depressed.   And then it's just a giant feedback loop. And   what we what we've done to the world is is   fucking maniacal, man. It's just it's   and extricating us ourselves from this.   I I I hope I'm alive to see it. That's all I can say. I really do. I hope I'm alive to see it.  

[00:42:46] Untapped Growth:

Yeah. I love how Joel Stellleton says it. Like, everything I want to do is illegal. Yeah. Have you have you read have you read that book by him where he talked about all this? No. But he tried to set up all the products   processing the chickens and was working directly with the USDA regulator guys. Uh-huh. And they had all these in name things he made him do. He was doing an outdoor processing facility. The further book, you have to have a door. He's like, guys, there's no wall. So, like, we have to have a door anyway with the screen mesh of these sizes. So he put a wall on his outdoor processor or a door on his outdoor processor when he has no walls.   And then, like, they just chased him down a thousand different rabbit trails. You know? And, like,   eventually, he was like, screw this. So we sent off his meat process his way to have tested for salmonella with different contaminants. Uh-huh. And then he sent off meat that was, like, as clean and fresh of meat as he could get for a processor that was doing it the USDA way. Yeah. And his was like   it had, like, one or two parts per million of salmonella or whatever on it, like, barely even testable. Right? Right. Versus others had hundreds or thousands of percent more salmonella that his had following their rules. He's like, look. Mine's cleaner. Can't we just do it my way? They're like, no. You gotta do it dirty way. It's like, but but but, like, aren't we supposed to be solving for cleanness? Like, no. No. That's not what we're solving for.  



[00:44:01] David Bennett:

Yeah. And for anybody who doesn't know, Joel Salatin is the head of Polyface Farms. And if you have it checked out, Polyface Farms, that's that is that place is a thing of beauty, man.   And he out is he out in Virginia or is it West Virginia? He's in Virginia. Western Virginia.   Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, Joel, do you wanna talk I mean, you you've got a, like, a full blown project going on right now. You wanna   outline that, or do you wanna save it for later? Or  

[00:44:30] Untapped Growth:

what do you wanna do? We wanna actually do the record. Can I snag a bathroom break? We'll go right back and dive in. Yeah. Absolutely, man.  

[00:44:37] David Bennett:

We could definitely   figure this one out. I'll I'll just have to go through it and and   hopefully find all the breaks and and catches and stuff. But,   yeah, just, like, take it take me through the take me through your deal, man.  

[00:44:53] Untapped Growth:

Okay.   So what I'm doing is we're doing a decentralized raising coop.   We're matchmaking   ranchers with investors that have mutually aligned incentives and the ability to take a long time preference view to create something from nothing.   Okay?   What I'd love to cover most with you is the story of just, like, how I got here and how this came to be versus focus so much on kind of the inner workings   of the operations itself.   Okay.   I'm gonna be on with Marty in two weeks.   I'm thinking I'll give his guys the whole, like,   the spiel of the spiel on the why. Okay. But, I I like using your podcast for kind of the personal side of it. Okay. If you're cool with that. Absolutely, man.  

So we were talking earlier before we started this part of the recording.   I got into this world through   essentially health issues   where   when I went to college 02/2009,   I lost about 20 pounds in two weeks.   Never got officially tested, but I'm pretty confident with Crohn's disease,   which sent me down the whole rabbit hole of learning about, like, alternative health, holistic health, which in and that will lead you all the way down to, like, why is our food broken, why is our soil broken, right,   which started a lifelong passion at this point for being in the regenerative agriculture and eventually mob grazing and cattle and everything. Right?   Well, So I've been dreaming about doing this stuff for a long,   long, long time.  

Part of actually how I found Bitcoin   was through   trying to build self sovereign communities   that were kind of resilient as the world's getting quite crazier.   I mean, building small businesses that work together to kinda help train young men how to be leaders in their communities   all the way through, like, how do we have fairly controlled supply chains where, like, we won't be disrupted as the world gets more chaotic.   And this is before I found Bitcoin went down the rabbit hole. I was looking like, okay. We need this. We need sustainable food chains. We need sustainable energy.   And but we also need the ability to do commerce among all these different communities we're building in a way that censorship resistant.  

So I was like, okay. Well, I gotta solve this problem.   Kinda Citadel building, right, before I even knew Citals was a thing.   And I would like you do with any project where you have a problem that needs solving, you go do your research. Maybe somebody else is already working on this, and I can partner   them. Lo and behold, there's fucking Bitcoin.   But, like, not only do I not have to solve this problem, this thing's been multiple,   like, decade of iteration of, like,   Sabo and eCash or eGold and all these different things. Right? All the way to what Bitcoin is today that has been in existence   for a decade of people working with   making it what it is. Right? Just Right. Freaking incredible.  

So   I, like, I would sit at old building, and I'd probably found Bitcoin. And always a part of that was kinda food supply stuff.   So fast forward,   I always was just putting off, like, one day I'll have enough money. I better buy a bunch of land, then I'll start ranching.   Like, I don't have I can't do it now because I've not saved up enough. Like, all of us on the millennial   who just can't clear the hurdle height. Right? Like, I started after I graduated college in 02/2013.   No money. Negative money. Right? College debt. Mhmm. But,   like, trying to get off the ground in a world where prices are running away from you, you don't have any money invested in assets, so you'd miss the asset inflation curve. And the harder you work, the faster it runs away, and you just can't get ahead of it. So, I mean, we built a small company doing contracting work for nothing,   kinda working nights and weekends, build our customer base, so on and so forth.  

And even after I got invested in Bitcoin, okay, like, now I'm I've got this successful company as four or five years old. I find Bitcoin.   I'm getting financially free. Thank God. Thanks to the power of Bitcoin as we all know and love.   But, like, now you got the opportunity cost of Bitcoin there too, and it's like, man, like, I don't necessarily wanna flip this money into cattle and land yet because this is my first bull run. I joined 02/2019.   Right? It's like,   I gotta wanna miss this chance. This is, like, this is my key to freedom here.   So I'm gonna save up for a while. Maybe one day, I'll go to buy enough land once Bitcoin goes, and I'll buy some caps.  

And as all this is happening, I just feel that pull. Like, Like, this is pre COVID too. Like, it is time to get sustainable. It is time to get food supplied directly in your hands. I just don't know why. I could just feel that kind of call echoing. Right?   And as a part of that, like, I was researching more about regenerative grazing.   I was studying how all this stuff works. I was looking at different land and land prices, different areas, trying to figure out how I can make it happen.   And it just didn't seem like it could work. So, like, I'm kinda just sitting down and praying and meditating about it. Like, how in the world can this happen? I feel this being pulled on in my soul, but I just don't know how to get there.   And lo and behold, we're doing a fencing quote for a lady who the city mowed down her exterior fencing along the ditch while they were cutting their city, like, areas on the ditch lines.  

So we're doing a insurance quote to the fencing company for her. And we get to talking, and she's got this huge recreational horse farm   with, like, a 60 ish acres or so, and they got about 12 horses on the property.   And she's got this problem   where recreational horses   does not count as agriculture.   So for her, she's paying residential tax rates on all of this property,   which is absurd. It's so much money for her.   And   she's been trying to lease out her land. She's, like, bemoaning this to me while we're putting together her estimates and stuff for her fence to get her sent off for her insurance claims.   She's just bemoaning to me that everybody wants to come and, like, rent land from her to get her agricultural deduction back. She's got more land than they need, but for the horses by far.  

Wants to do cotton or soy and spray chemical stuff over land.   And this is a community of older people who are just they're all into natural stuff, and they're just not keen on all that. She's like, man, I just can't find anybody who's willing to do this in a way that just works for us.   And I was like, well, you know, like, I've always dreamed about doing regenerative grazing.   She's like, okay. What's going on? You know?   And so at the end of that whole situation, what ended up happening   is she's leasing me a bunch of acreage on her farm for a buck a year.   What she gets in return   is she doesn't have to manage any of this pasture. So before she was even having to pay somebody to mow or her mow herself,   like dozens and dozens of acres of unused pasture, and a lot of it had become scrub land because it just gotten behind. She couldn't keep up with it all.  

Because there's just not enough horses, they don't need that much land.   And on top of that, now she gets her her agricultural tax deduction back.   So she has this incentive   where monetarily   and just labor and work wise where it's   beneficial to her for me to be doing this on her property, which is why she's leasing me that land for such a competitive rate. Mhmm.   So now I'm set up with all this land. It's like I got, like, 28 acres of pasture that are pasture I'm starting with, eight of which were fairly good ish.   20 ish or stuff that, like, within the first season or two is gonna be pretty good. I've got another section I'm managing for deer in, like, wildlife conservation using the cattle as a tool,   which you don't get as much grazing out of it, but you can still get some food value. It's about 30 acres and about 50 ish acres of woods that I'm trying to prefer to the silva pasture.  

Mhmm. And it's all a buck a year. So I've got this going,   but I've still got the same dilemma rate where   most of my cash flows is from this small business I built successfully.   I've got every penny I got coming in invested into Bitcoin plus some.   Yeah.   Yeah, as most of us do. Right? Right. And   and, like, I don't wanna necessarily   deleverage that for cattle.   I mean, I feel that call in my soul of, like, you need sustainable food chain. You need animals. You need to learn how to restore land hands on and go from book knowledge to actual real experience. Like, it's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. It's just.   Right? And so I'm like, okay. I gotta be faithful with this. I gotta be obedient to what I'm feeling here, but shit, dude. I don't wanna sell my Bitcoin.  

So I'm sitting here thinking like, okay. Well,   I'm gonna start with three or four cows. I'm not really gonna make any money at all, but I get a chance to learn. Like, I guess that's worth it because the opportunity cost will stay in Bitcoin anyway.   And while I'm talking about all this stuff out on Bitcoin Twitter,   I get reached out to to by a guy.   He's a bit of a Bitcoin OG. He's also a wealthy Wall Street Investor. He made most of his money in, like, distressed credit rescuing.   Uh-huh.   He worked his way up in a company. He wasn't, like, bigwig, but he did well in the company, building relationships with the guys who run it, and has done quite well.   I mean, in addition to being a really big player, right, which obviously helps.  



[00:54:02] David Bennett:

Yeah.   Very much so.  

[00:54:05] Untapped Growth:

And he was like, hey. I love what you're doing. I wanna be a part of this.   And right off the cuff, I actually told him no. I was like, no. I don't want anybody involved in this project. I built too many things   to where I know how important a line that is, and this is not something that's ever gonna make a lot of money at the time, I thought. I was like, this is for the sake of the animals. This is for the sake of sustainability.   I'm going after really old heritage breed genetics because I think we need to do this for conservation reasons.   Like, that in itself is not gonna necessarily lend to good business numbers either.  

Like, no. I don't wanna try to find a behind in here. I don't think it's possible. Yeah. But out of cure out of curiosity,   like, tell me why.   Why are you interested in being a part? He wrote this letter, dude.   It was like we were brothers. You just hadn't met each other yet. Really? Like, a lot of us with the Bitcoiners are. You know? Like, it's like we meet each other. It's like, dude, like, we're family. I'm so glad I finally know you.   And Yep. So when we got to talk, I was like, okay. We gotta do this.   So we wrestled down the system   where   he bought the cows,   and I'm managing them. And we have a contract that's a cow share agreement, like a herd share,   where   every generation of animals born, he gets a percentage of the animals, and I get a percent of the animals.  

His profit as the investor   is all measured in animal wealth, and it's just out of the percentage of the animals he gets that are born. Right. Operating   costs   and my salary as the rancher all come out of the percentage of animals that I get.   Okay. So it's just this really slick little contract that is not a business agreement.   It's not like you're talking about equity in the company and cash flows and operating costs or any of this complicated   business agreement type stuff. It's literally just splitting up animals that are born. It's just a coop.   Mhmm. It's literally just a cooperative.  

And that's going really well. Right? I mean, because the business model with this ranch is Greg Judy style. I I mean, you got a low cost lease, in my case, free, nearly, you know, just decide just decide a contract. Right? Yeah. Which is not unusual for anybody listening. Greg Judy does this, like, out in the Midwest. This is   there's many, many different places to exploit where you have opportunities like that, which we'll probably talk about as we get into the podcast further. Mhmm.   So we got these low cost lease.   We've got   animal genetics   that are low input capable animals that can thrive on neglect and just rough forage.  

I in particular,   like   let me step back a little bit.   None of you knows this, but, like,   modern cows   can't survive on just forage.   They've been bred to gain weight fast with high energy inputs. Modern beef industry feeds them all sorts of bullshit.   I mean, it's not uncommon, like,   like Bitcoin and Cowles and I were talking about when we did that cattle call that a couple of Bitcoiners listened into.   He's seen them, like, get Skittles that are miscolored or aren't perfectly shaped, And so they're the rejects from, like, candy processing industries fed the cattle. Holy shit. With sprinkles. Yeah. Same with, like, ice cream sprinkles.   Like, these are all things that are very common in the feedlot industry. It's the only way they can hit their margins with these cows. Oh, okay. It's just cheaper inputs. Right?  

So it's like I I I know what are your things then. Yes. Information coding in our food from the environment. Can you imagine what feed them Skittles and Sprinkles does to the information coated in the food.  

[00:57:34] David Bennett:

Jesus. The food dot the food dial alone is making my mind cringe.  

[00:57:39] Untapped Growth:

Yeah. It's bad. It's bad.   So, like, we we have a highly regulated beef industry that extracts all the profit   to these large centralized   processors,   which has been created by the lobby groups just because of all the legislations.   We asked the question   in ranching today   of   daily weight gain per cow, and that's what we seek with just all of our efforts,   which is the absolute   wrong freaking question.   It leads to these large frame sized animals, animals that can consume all this junk and stay alive. It's just the wrong question because you're sacrificing, like, good mothering traits and fertility. You're sacrificing   good rugged health.  

You're sacrificing,   like,   just longevity and gut size to better eat rough or forage. Like, they're just not really cows anymore.   They're like these robots that you can shove into them junk industrial   off puts to gain weight as fast as possible. It's like they're laboratory equipment. Right? Garbage disposals?   Pretty much. Pretty much.   So, like, that was one of the first problems that need solving. And then the regenerative grazing movement, like Greg, Judy, and all these guys, there's been a lot of people who worked on this where they've gone out. They got, like, the South Pole breed. It's an example of that. Do you know about South Pole,   No.  

Okay. So the South Pole breed, they went and got some of the best examples   of   modern meat cows. So Angus, Hereford,   Barzona, Centipole, I think, are the main four they started with. Mhmm. They selected almost solely for good mothering ability and fertility,   where if an animal didn't calve well every single year with no difficulty, they'd call it. Right. And they wanted animals you could throw into just forage and that they do well.   And so they just let them get selected kinda land race style through environmental pressure. And as it happened, their frame size decreased a little bit, and all these other really cool, good, rugged, healthy traits came back and the gut size came back, which is really interesting. When you select for fertility   and longevity,   all these other beneficial traits come with it. It's like nature knows. Right? Right. Like, so like, some of your healthiest animals actually are animals that get, like, abandoned on an island. So these, like, island populations of isolated animal groups have heavy environmental pressure,   and then the ones that can't cut it just kind of die off, and the ones that survive make it. They end up with the strongest gene pools   because what's happening   is the environmental pressure of nature is just removing the bottom weakest of the average over and over and over and over.  

And so the average   strength of the herd is just continuously going up over time.   Rather than our modern cow, we tend to try to select what we think are the best and breed for that, but we always have blind spots of things that are showing up that we didn't account for. Right. Finding the weakest is pretty easy, and that's what nature does. What I think good breeders should do too is remove the obvious week and let the average improve in a low time preference thing as the herd as a whole Right. Versus trying to have these reductionist changes of selecting for the best where we have blind spots of things we don't know about. Right? That's a whole another rabbit hole. Right. So, anyways, there's guys working on that, and they're doing a really good job.   And so in order to have cows that can thrive in a low input system like what Greg Judy uses, like what I'm using, where you're not feeding grain. They're just eating on forage. You're trying to keep your call center control for medical care, like anti parasites and vaccines, preferably using none of it if possible.  

And they advanced a lot of that and did a really good job.   Our first principles,   we want max resilience possible in the end of the world type scenario.   I mean, say, like, Bill Gates has threatened to spray the atmosphere to change, like, the climate. Do you worry about climate change, which is all bullshit.   So, like, you got these drastic things that happen in the world.   There are cows that they've bred in a lot of the regenerative grazing movement are very solid animals.   They're good on just forage. They thrive on neglect. They gain weight pretty well, produce high quality meat. They don't   require very many inputs at all. But they've been selected largely from modern cows, so their gene pool was fairly narrow even though they bred the right first principles.  

What we did   is we went the complete opposite direction. We said, okay.   Let's go as far back in history as we can go to get the most ancient bloodlines I could find   of animals that have this rugged toughness in them that we want.   And now we have this really, really broad genetic adaptable base. So no matter what happens in the world, we have animals that can cope with it and do well. Mhmm. Or at least their at least their next generation  

[01:02:28] David Bennett:

born into it would be able to cope well. The animal itself undergoing the stress is   if it's a massive climate change or it's a massive   something disastrous happens, the adult animal will probably die. But if it has offspring in that adversarial   environment,   there's   genetic information that can come to light  

[01:02:48] Untapped Growth:

and Exactly.  

[01:02:49] David Bennett:

And prosper in that new in that new era within one or two generations. That's what I love about evolution   when you really apply it. This is applied evolution.  

[01:02:59] Untapped Growth:

Exactly.   So I actually went and I found these nearly endangered breed animals. I mean, at one point, there's only a couple hundred left in the whole world. Oh, yes. They're called tiny worms.   They are one of the two original breeds to ish that was brought to The US during original settle.   They're small woods and brush cows from Spain that were truly selected that would have just come with the settlers,   be released into the woods. They'd breed on their own.   They'd be able to just thrive on a rough rugged forage because the settlers back then didn't really know what the new world was what was like. Right? Right.   So even if, like, the whole village dies off, these cows can survive.  

The next ship arrives, they know there's still food there because there's cows off in the woods. So even if the new world doesn't have any, like, what we know now know is The US was just or North America at the time, there was no US. Had all sorts of deer and elk and bison and such, but they didn't know what kind of food would be here, so they brought these cows with   them. Okay.   And then just landrace, so landrace meaning selected by environmental pressure rather than intentional human intervention.   These cows in North America, just the healthiest ones survived in rough conditions to the herds we have today.  

So I went back   and found a farm that's original homestead property down in Mississippi from, like, I think, the early eighteen hundreds. It's been in the same family   since the original settlement. They never sold it. So the the guy who runs the property today is, like, the great great whatever grandchild of the people that originally developed this property from original. Like, tubblers come along the wagons. Really cool place.   When I went to visit to purchase the cows, I actually slept in the barn loft that he's been building. Uh-huh. The barn loft, this is a little side note, but you'll like this one.   The barn loft is built out of lumber   that his grandfather   harvested during a storm   that knocked out a bunch of trees on the property forty years ago, and he stored them in the lake on the property because he didn't need them. He said, one of my grandchildren already used this as their inheritance.  

So when the storm did it, he harvested all the lumber,   stored it in the lake to age the lumber, and as they've needed it as a family, they go pull a log out, mow it, and use it to build new things on the property.   That barn is the same barn that was originally on the property in the eighteen hundreds. It got knocked down by Katrina, I think. And they kinda just were able to piece it back together and put it on stilts and rekinda rebuild it.   And then he's using this lumber to build a loft, and that's where I slept, is in that loft in the barn with the beneath of me. It was so cool, dude. That's awesome. Yeah. Water waterlogged lumber  

[01:05:35] David Bennett:

is a   actually, that's a big deal, man. In the North, Pacific Northwest, they're still pulling shit out that's, like, a hundred years old. You know? Oh, it's beautiful.  

[01:05:45] Untapped Growth:

Yeah. It got Beautiful.  

[01:05:46] David Bennett:

It is. It's gorgeous. What and you would think it's like, oh, this is has lost it it can't pass it's gotta be a sponge, and it's gotta be all rotten. And it's like, no, dude. This is a great this is actually like if you could store whole logs, like, not e not milled yet,   bark on everything and stored in water at such a low oxygen environment   that   nothing really wants to eat it. And the only thing that can really eat wood is fungus   and most   air. And it's and it needs air and   neither are really present in water. It's actually a perfect place to store this shit, man.  

[01:06:22] Untapped Growth:

And they knew. So so that that part was so cool, dude. So they have the same genetic lineage   of sheep, horses,   cattle, and dogs that was original to the homestead   way, way, way, way back.   So so these cows, man, I mean, they're like they've got bloodline ties all the way back to these original cows that came over on boats.   So, I mean, what like, my bull, he came out of the Desoto National Forest Group,   which is just some really old bloodline. So it's just running out the woods. Like, he was actually used to develop the replacement heifers for the conservation herd. I've got some really   good genetics I found.  

So so point being,   these animals give us deep resilience.   Deep resilience in the low input model of them not really needing medical care,   deep resilience that they can eat stuff on even really rough land. I mean, you can throw them in the woods and just in the scrubbiest to forage, and they're okay. Like, even as late as the nineteen fifties, these tiny woods, there's,   like, stories of them interviewing some of the old ranchers that kept them.   And, this was when cattle was being really, like,   modernized,   and   everybody was starting to go towards these, like, the Angus breeds and   starting to use these different principles and giving them, like,   grain inputs and feed them, like,   anti parasites or all the sorts of new stuff they're doing. And they were interviewing these old Pineywoods Farmers. They weren't called Pineywoods then. They were just called woods or brush cows by the farmers that kept them. The Pineywoods is a conservationist name. They got out of it later. Mhmm. But they were like, so what do you guys do with these cows during the winter? They're like, what do you mean? They're like, what do you do with them? How do you feed them? They're like, we don't feed our cows. We don't have money for that. We're all just poor southern farmers. Like, what do you do? Like, oh, we just we just open up and let them go out in the woods.  

Like, we'll keep one or two of the, like, of around that we need for, like, milk or something, and we'll feed them through the winter. But the rest of them just run wild. They find whatever they need out in the scrub lands that nobody owns. Like, what you don't feed them anything? No. The ones that survive are the ones that come back, and they're they're the ones that stay in the herd for next year. And they're the ones  

[01:08:28] David Bennett:

and they're the ones that can do that again   over that's the that's where you're getting back to to that definition of land rates, which I think is important,   is that   the cows that were able to find enough calories   in wild forage at those temperatures at that time of of year are the ones that are gonna be able to have their offspring, and their offspring are gonna have a much better chance to be able to do the exact same thing that mama was able to do the year before.   And the more and more that you get that going on, the more and more cows actually come home and the less and less,   you know, die, fall over, and and rot out in the field. And   and   this   you've used it a couple of times, but the the I want it like it it I I will probably forget. Hopefully, you won't forget. But when we finish this part of the discussion, I wanna come back to   when you say animal wealth because there's that's   a that's a big statement.  

And it's a really important statement for people to understand what the hell wealth really was   2,000,   three thousand, four thousand, five thousand years ago, because it is not the wealth that we think of today. So so I didn't wanna interrupt you, but I I wanna be able to remember to come back to what animal wealth actually means. So Yeah. Continue that. That fits in great here. I mean, because animal wealth is more than just numbers.  

[01:09:49] Untapped Growth:

Animal wealth is the ancestral memory of all the generations of stewardship that's been invested to create this animal be what it is today.   And that's something that must happen not just over years, but decades.   Not just over decades, but centuries. You know? Like,   in that kind of real wealth   is solving for the correct first principles of wisdom too. Like, you think about her Angus, we may have a moderate herd of a hundred Angus,   but if you put them on, like,   Kentucky thirty one, you don't feed them much, like, grain inputs, the whole herd dies. Like, okay. Grady had a hundred cows, but how much real animal wealth   of true   value accrued over history   do you really have here? Because your breeders selected for all these things that only work in a modernized   world with all these additional inputs. Right? Like, we want animal wealth measured by low time preference resilience kind of with a Bitcoin mindset   Mhmm. Which is so much more than just how many cows do you have.  

It's what's the substance and essence of these cows? What makes them who they are?   So, like, you think about these cows   that were run wild in the woods over the winter,   these cows are also incredibly fertile. I mean, they're the kind of cows that are capable of breeding back during those conditions.   So you got nature selecting for, like, which cows can raise another generation under under under utter neglect in the worst of conditions.   Like like these tiny woods, one of the lines is the barns line, and it came from this, like, little township   where everybody in the town had cows,   but not a single person in the town had land. The town was on woody swamps.  

Like, all these guys had, they had salt blocks in their backyards.   Whenever somebody need any meat, they just go wrangle a cow when it was licking a salt block and then they butcher it. So, like, they would just every so often brand them whichever ones came to their property, and they all counted those as their cows, but they all just ran loose in the swamps in the woods.   And I don't know how much a lot of you guys know about animals, but swamp humid swamp lands are brutal.   Mhmm. Because not only do you have that humidity, the heat, the insect, and bug pressure, but you have this huge parasite load because all that muggy, wet, swampy soil,   you have that huge level of just the parasites getting fed back into the animals again. So these cows that can survive and thrive in those conditions are the toughest of the toughest cows.  

You take those same cows that could handle that humid swampy heat, you put them in the desert, and they just get even better.   Mhmm. Because now they got less parasite pressure, less bug pressure. I mean, now it's just okay. Can I survive on limited forage? Well, yeah, we already know they can do bad.  

[01:12:35] David Bennett:

Yep.   Yeah.  

[01:12:38] Untapped Growth:

Yep. So so animal wealth. Right? That's all baked into these cows. I mean, there's even places where they interviewed some of these old farmers. Like, hey. Do you guys give these guys any antiparasites?   Do you do any vaccinations?   Like, dude, we're poor old farmers. We keep these poor old cows.   Poor old cows. Yeah. Just one of the best animal wealth you could possibly imagine because of how durable these animals are. They think of them like they're just little like, just trailer trash to use, like, a modern modern kind   of analogy.  

But, really, this is some of the most incredible genetics you could ever dream of. It's like island genetics. Right?   And   they're like, no. We can't afford any of that stuff. We don't use any of it. These cows have to survive without it because we can't we can't use it. We just can't afford to put it in our budgets.   So these cows are just incredibly tough.   So   from an investment standpoint with these investors helping me get set up doing this operation,   they now have   animal wealth   that is a hard asset that they've invested in in my range. Right?   So being a hard asset, it's inflation secured.  

These animals are very separated from the whims of your fiat marketplace chasing all these fads   because it's like like weird meat markets. I don't know how much you know about this stuff either. None yet. But, like, black typically sells that are premium. Yes. Like,   different breeds sell at a different premium, which is all for just stupid reasons,   like Angus does. But, I mean, Angus   a lot of modern Angus all ties back to a single genetics from one of these bulls that they use to AI, like, nearly all of them.   And he is a carrier for a gene that causes what's called curvy calf,   which is essentially like a calf burn form without a functioning spine.  



[01:14:24] David Bennett:

Oh, that's like spina bifida, man.  

[01:14:26] Untapped Growth:

Yep.   So Angus, they have this huge issue now where they've had to test for this to try to get it out of the genetics. They've done well with it to where it's not near as bad of a problem as it was when it first started coming to the surface. So, like, what is causing this crisis?   And it tracked all back to, like, we were talking about this prime bull they selected because of these certain traits   where they, in a reductionist mindset,   thinking this is the best of the best, breaded into everything.  

[01:14:52] David Bennett:

Oh.  

[01:14:53] Untapped Growth:

Like,   nature   eliminated the lowest.   Right. So it increased the average of the whole. Are you trying to chase fast reductionist gains?   Are you going after a long time preference?   Benefit of the whole was the average improves over time. And that's just that's the mentality diff right? Yeah. So Angus sells at a premium, but Angus has these genetics problems and stuff as well,   which a lot of that they've done really good work at rooting all that out. I'm not trying to hammer onto the Angus guys. I'm just   kinda trying to illustrate the different mindsets of what what to bring to this when you're trying to raise animals.   So so these investors have these deep resilient animals now.  

So they're completely decoupled from the whole market. So you got supply break supply chain breakdown.   So you can't get medical stuff from China. So you can't do your vaccines, or you can't get any anti parasites.   Let's say, like,   Bill Gates buys up all the good farm land, so you can't get good land.   It doesn't matter. These animals can be thrown in the roughest conditions. They can have absolute utter neglect, zero medical care, and you've got a pretty safe store of value.   So   now   not only are they having a good hard asset, but this hard asset's also real yielding   because they spit off another cow every year. Right? Right. So with these cattle contracts, not only do they have sustainable meat supply for their family,   so as the world's getting crazier and supply chains break down, the anti meat movement and all this,   they could take some of those investments and sell those animals or sell that meat and have cash flows off those investments.  

And the position also has some convexity to it because the way I wrote my contracts, which they can all be negotiated between the rancher and the investor to do whatever you want as we're building this whole organization.   But the way I wrote it with my investor, he actually even gets some breeding animals that are.   So his underlying position actually increases too.   So not only is it like a dividend yielding position of a hard asset that provides sustainable meat income for his family and some cash flows,   It also has yields on actually growing the underlying and increasing the wealth of animal wealth at the same time.  

So you can imagine how stoked he was about that. Because, I mean, where else is he gonna put his money? Right? I mean, we as Bitcoin know this. Right. Everything's a bubble.   Freaking everything. I mean, like, everything besides Bitcoin.   So it's like, he's an OG. He told me this. I mean, I I don't know if I believe him, but he said, like, there's a point where, like, you have enough Bitcoin. Uh-huh. Where, like,   his belief about the risk to Bitcoin for, like, the unknown unknowns. Right? Something might happen that we just nobody really knew about. Like, some sort of fall somewhere or something happens, which we all know is super, super, super minimal, but there's always that small risk. Right? Right. He says I have enough that I think I'm balanced with that.   What I care about now is when I have all this money,   somebody has to be producing somewhere. I need something to buy with this money. I'd rather secure the real goods that I need for later.  

So I wanna diversify.   There's nothing better to diversify than this.   These animals, real estate investment, if we count the carry cost down because of being agriculture,   and then maybe some of the equipment and type stuff needed to kinda do this at a more scale of us buying more properties.  

[01:18:14] David Bennett:

Right.  

[01:18:15] Untapped Growth:

Ever since we started doing this, his other buddies that are wealthy have been hammered on his door trying to get to me, like, give call Joel. We want we want more animals. Like, we want cattle contracts too. These are great. Like, make more of these. Like, guys, we we don't have any more cows.   And we don't wanna sell the ones we have because we like these just like you guys do. Right? Right.   So   as all this is happening, we got all Bitcoin Twitter watching. You know? We've we've all been kind of enjoying this journey together, seeing the cows get delivered, all the photos of posting, the new calf got born a couple weeks ago. Been a lot of fun. Yeah. Then in the other ear,   a bunch of ranchers talking to me. Like, how in the world did you build this thing? I wanna start homesteading. I wanna start ranching. Can you help me figure out how to do this too? Like, teach me how to do this holistic grazing stuff.  

Like, help me find the right animals. Help me kinda fund my farm.   So   I've got   investors in one year saying, get me more cattle contracts,   and people in the other year saying, help me start ranching. And I'm like,   You   know? Like, these people should talk to each other.   Yeah.   So as all this is happening,   the investment group starts talking to me about as the world's getting crazy with COVID, they're like, man, I really wish   I had fallback properties   where, like, I could get away from the city as things get crazy if I need to.   But the problem is,   I'm really good at what I do, and I'm working in my field. And as the world's getting more chaotic, it's also opportunity. Right? And I'm trying to create where I am the things that are needed for the next chapter.  

But, like, I feel like I'm failing my family because I don't have   safety of food supply or, like, a safe place for them to fall back to if things get really crazy.   Like, I need both, and I can't do both on my own.   Could we set up a land trust where we buy up a bunch of land   and either you or somebody you know goes out and stewards the property for us? You run cows on it, regenerate it. That way the soil is getting more and more fertile.   And then, like, we can use that as the preparation work for getting that place designed as a small place for our community to fall back to as a family if we need it.   Like, I was like, okay. Like, what would you guys want in return for that? Or like, well, I mean, like,   your work is the return. Like, the land improves. Like, even if we don't go back and, like, actually move to these properties, we could flip the real estate investment for multiple orders of magnitude gain because you guys help the property so much.  

Like, what if we just, like,   sliced off an acre or two for you guys to use as your homestead?   That way you could live your dream of kinda gardening and doing all that stuff,   and you donate your, like, five to six hours a week moving the cattles around the hundreds of acres of property as a whole.   And, like, we just call that a deal. Like, trade labor for your lease rate for your lease to own on your little couple acreage you buy from us.   And I'm like, shoot. Like,   you guys wanna provide homestead properties for homesteaders just simply for labor to do what they dream of doing anyway in the first place? They're like,   yeah. Oh, this is fucking great.  

No. So we got to talking like, okay. Like, this thing looks like it scales. Like, we're doing proof of concept on my farm. It's working really well. I'm talking to all these homesteaders. I'm talking to all these investors. We know the model works with the low cost leases because Greg Judy's been doing it for a long time too.   And we're like, okay. Well, we should start building the web landing page and a website and kinda start   getting the sign up process up. We'll start matchmaking these people, and we'll open source the contracts and the toolkit for how to do the legal stuff on the land trusts, and we'll start getting this going.   And, like, so we're thinking, like, a six month time frame. Right? And a week later is when that anti Bill Gates tweet I tweeted out on Twitter just popped. Do you remember that one? Yes. I do. Oh, yeah. I was I was part of that one.  

That one went, man.   And it was like, oh, shit. We need to have this thing prepared to scale, like, yesterday.   So it's been really cool. I mean, I've had so many people reach out to me.   And, I mean, I I had a family investment office call me who owns, like, 800 acres, 400 acres of prime land, and 400 acres of, like, just burned out industrial farmland that doesn't grow anything anymore. Yep. And they were like, hey. Like,   we have a macro thesis that's very much like you guys where we believe, like, we're in a fourth turning and, like, a, like, monetary   shift or whatever.  

And they're like, we we believe that one of the things we need to be diversified into is regenerative agriculture. So we've been buying up a bunch of land. He's like, but our problem is we're not experts in regenerative agriculture,   and we've been completely incapable of either finding or training people that can do this.   Everybody we have managing our land is doing it just with normal modern principles,   and it's not it doesn't give us what we want.   Because now we're still tied to, like   like like modern cattle ranchers. Right? If you've got a supply chain breakdown of your medical inputs for your cattle or, like, your price changes by thirty, forty, 50 percent,   some of that's enough to put a lot of modern ranchers out of business. Oh, yeah.  

It's just it doesn't take that much volatility because they're so tied to all those markets. And so the investment office, like like, this is this is our thing we need solved. Like, can you help us? And I'm still sitting here thinking, like, I've got people asking if I can help them become land stewards. I've got investment offices asking if I could find land stewards.   Right. And I've got my phone blowing up ever since that tweet with   people, dozens of them, reach different side of it. I mean, that's just my little small Twitter feed. Right? It's like you send out this little radar ping and alpha my small number of followers, we get that amount of return. It's like, shit, dude. Like, we're on something that resonates. Right? Yeah. Yes. Yes. You are. Absolutely, man.   So so one of the things that's really blowing my mind about this  

[01:24:11] David Bennett:

actually, did you got any questions? Have I explained everything else before? Yeah. The there's only there's only one issue, and you probably know what it is. And I'm sure that you've I'm sure that you've looked into it,   but I know that there's   a couple of people out there that are listening right now that are that   about five minutes ago were screaming,   how does this not fail the Howey Test?   How is it that you've got an investment vehicle   that   could provide a prod that somehow or another   suggests profit   at hand excuse me, at the hands of a third party.  

Because if any if if all those are true, then you've got an unregistered security on your hand.   Have you looked   into how this doesn't fit that   and and under what,   aspects that you can guard against something like this? Because,   again,   excuse me. Again, just like with centralized cattle operations   forming around the the centralized USDA   inspected approved slaughterhouses.   That forces out people   from being able to do what we're talking about. So you can't do that. And now,   you've got a situation with the stuff like the Howey Test   that was supposed to protect people against scams,   but it reinforces   that model.  

So   have you looked at that?   Can you break that? Or can you figure out a way to,   have that not be the issue with failing the Howey test and having this whole thing   get scuttled because of an unregistered security? Because I wanna see this go. But if it that that's my problem here is that it's   like, you goddamn people refuse to let us do anything. And this is why the world is the way it is. Can't we just do this? Can't we have a guy who says, I got an investor here. I got a guy that wants to do this shit here. We put them together under contract, and then the US government steps and says, no. You can't even do that shit, bro. You get I'll send your ass to jail.   So   I wanna be wrong. I really I really want this not to be the Howie test, so I'm not crawling into your ass about it, like, from that direction,   but it's gotta be talked about.  



[01:26:30] Untapped Growth:

Yep.   So the way this shakes out is this is animal boarding.   We're just boarding animals for the investors, so it's more like a coop.   This is being built on the legal precedence of cow shares or herd share agreements.  

[01:26:45] David Bennett:

Okay. Are you familiar with the raw milk movement in the kind of health world at all? Yes. Absolutely. You can sell you you can't you can't sell it because it's illegal, but you can sell it if you're gonna label it as cat food.  

[01:26:56] Untapped Growth:

Well, no. Not only that. A lot of states with the legislation, what we're doing, like, what I do in Virginia   is I own a cow at a local farm.   They care for my cow.   I pay a maintenance cost from the feed my cow,   and then I get the products from my cow, which is the raw milk. Mhmm. So it's a cooperative herd share where they're farming my cow for me. They're just essentially boarding it. I'm paying boarding fees.   Mhmm. So what we're doing with our legal team is we're piggybacking on those precedents. We're still in the process of doing all the legal research.   We're probably gonna   give out approval for this model on a state by state basis because those rules are per state. They're not a national rule set. Mhmm. And then go live in different states one at a time.  

We're even planning on open sourcing that some.   I wanna go down a rabbit hole there.   One thing that this project has really blown my mind about so I've   I've got a network of guys that are entrepreneurs   in all sorts of different stuff, like high-tech r and d and, like, small business world of just people hands on craftsmen and tradesmen, and   I've I've been around a lot of different projects.   I'm so used to collaborating with people that have a Fiat mindset.   I'm sure talking to mostly Bitcoiners here. I don't have to explain what that means. Right.   There are people that don't think goal oriented. They don't communicate with precision.  

They're like they're always just solving for the wrong stuff. You just can't get a team together to focus.   This project has shown me   just how low friction   the world is when you have people that actually think with the correct worldview.   Working with these Bitcoiners that all just showed up, like, this is one of my dreams. I'm here to help. What do I do to be a part of this project?   Has been freaking incredible. It's been one of the most humbling experience of my life. I mean, I have more than one lawyer that has just showed up of, like, I dreamed about this. Let me be a part. And so I've got a legal team that's awesome. These guys are high caliber.   And that's been true of everything. I've had software guys reach out who wanna help with some of the different problems I've needed solving.  

I've had business consultants and startup guys reach out who are really good at helping with the messaging and stuff we're building as far as the landing page.   It's just been freaking incredible.   So   we have a really good team that really just coalesced around this thing because we believe in it. But we're probably gonna need some help with that very question. What we're gonna do is we're starting the research on a few of the key areas first. Like, I'm in Virginia. We're looking probably New York next because we got some ranchers there we're actively talking to.   Wyoming, obviously, because they got some really lucrative cattle laws that'll be a good other place to start.  

But what we're gonna do is we're gonna release   the list of the states where we still made help doing all the legal research as we take this thing live. Mhmm. So we'll have states where sign ups are live. You can kinda presign up in other states, but we won't really go through the interview matchmaking process till we finish the legal due diligence there. Right. And we'll go after just one at a time, kinda making it go live in each state. And if you're either a lawyer or you got experience in those states, you can forward information to our legal team to help us. And we'll chug through getting   the verbiage and then, like, all the precedent set up for defending this thing where we can run this as animal boarding cooperative   organizations.  

And every state around the country is gonna eventually be the goal. Uh-huh. Okay.  

[01:30:31] David Bennett:

Have you any like, do you know anything about what's going on in Texas yet? Because, you know, I'm not it's not like I don't wanna start doing this. So   What about what's going on in Texas? Oh, I well, I meant, like, have you looked into like, I I guess what I'm I guess what the question is, when Texas?  

[01:30:49] Untapped Growth:

When Texas?   I will talk to my team and see where we can put that on the list. I got a couple people in Texas talking to me. Yeah. Well, this this been so cool, man. We've got people all over the country talking to us. I mean, I've even got allies all around the all around the country. I've got a, like, a,   sociologist   who's also in the, like, small scale localism and community building down in South America, who's also into regenerative grazing as a part of her, like, localism type vibe, who's kinda collaborating with me on building some of the education part of this platform.   I've got people in, like, Europe working on some of the software stuff. You wanna help be a part of building some of the backbone that'll be used for kinda helping scale the project.  

It's like it's been so cool how many different people all over the world are wanting to be a part of this. So do you is the web page ready? I mean, is it   can people look at it? Okay. That should be why by the time you and I release this, depending upon if we could kinda drag our feet for a few days so I could finish the verbiage on the last second.   Okay. Okay. We're really close.   I'm thinking  

[01:31:52] David Bennett:

of At least as long as at least as long as people you know, even if you can't sign up, you can at least   look at it and and, you know, have have some information that that pours out of it and and says, this is what we're thinking. This is what it may look like. Not investment advice and all that crap. But,   you know, like, just something, you know, something to hold on to because, you know, we're you know, we talked about it before,   you know, much earlier was that there's I'm getting so many Bitcoiners,   and they're not talking they're not talking directly to me. I'm just, like, seeing their feeds. And I see   farm, ranch,   you know, agriculture,   the importance of animals, the importance of food, the importance of nutrition, and you're not gonna get this in the supermarket. And it all just seems to be   like going down another black hole.  

You know? And and what's so funny is that   I came   when I came into Bitcoin, I came out of that.   And now I'm going right back into it.   And it's all it it's almost like like like two suns are orbiting each other in this dance,   and they're getting closer and closer and closer together as each orbital, you know, as each orbital goes round,   it's like   the Bitcoin mindset and the regenerative agricultural,   you know, mindset. And that includes permaculture and aquaculture and, you know,   even even hydroponics because it can be it can be done in a in a you know, it can't be done regeneratively   because you're not really regenerating anything. Right? But I guess I guess you could with with waste materials. But the point being is that   you got these two universes   that are really close to each other.  

You know, they're they're almost caught in in each other's orbital path. And if you've got   a shit ton of value in transferable money   around a shit ton of value in animal wealth and land wealth and and, like, resilience   in in that land in those animals. Around  

[01:33:50] Untapped Growth:

around capacity   for developing land wealth because we have the skill to regenerate stuff.  

[01:33:56] David Bennett:

Right. That and and that gets me into   you know, and that gets me into this one is that   I thought about this a lot, and then I was thinking about it again last night as I was reading,   holistic management.   And and I think we mentioned it before is that, you   know, commodity farms as they are right now with their super massive acreages   are on the precipice,   I believe. Now, I can't prove it. I don't have the data to back it.   But I live out I've lived in West Texas my entire life, everywhere from the Permian Basin   all the way up to, you know, the the Texas Panhandle and Lubbock in between.  

And this is some of the most degraded land because of chemical inputs. It's like a chemistry set out there, man.   You know? Yep. And at one point or another,   that land's not gonna be able to take much more chemistry,   and the whole thing's gonna collapse. And at that point, you're gonna have farm auctions out of the ass   at dirt cheap prices because that's all it's gonna be worth is dirt. There's no soil left. It's not soil now. That's what's so sick about it. So Yep. At one point or another,   gonna have a situation where a whole ton of land just comes on the market for super cheap prices. And there's an entire program that says we could put this back into production in two years.   Holy crap.  



[01:35:17] Untapped Growth:

Faster.  

[01:35:18] David Bennett:

Yeah. So it like, it all of a sudden, it becomes like a protein output situation.   You know? Like like with your cows,   you know, like, I you know, it's not it's not that I would rather have chickens than cows. I'm just that just see I could put chickens in my backyard. So I'd know them, you know, I'd know their personality   and what they do. And we talked about it on the phone once before is that   if you put a bunch of cows in a paddock   and you keep them there for two, three days and they manure in the urine and then you move them off and then they don't come back.   Okay. Well, that seems you know, I could see somebody going, god. You have to wait a whole   a whole season or a half a season.  

No. Actually, you don't. In fact, it'd be better   to run   a whole bunch of poundage of chicken   on that manure and urine land about three days after the cows move off. And the question becomes why three days?   Fly larval stage.   Yep. And what's beautiful about this is that as they pick all the maggots   off of the dung,   they do two things. Right?   They kill the flies before they're even born so your cattle don't have to go through fly strike and have to do that stress, which is a very stressful situation depending on the fly pressure. There is no fly pressure because the chickens ate them all. And second,   to get to all those little larva, they gotta tear all the bullshit apart. Literal. You know, the the literal cow shit.  

And they spread it   all over the place.   So there's now there's no flies.   And now all the manure is spread and scratched in, so it's it's got contact,   contact surface area with the soil so that it can interface with the soil a lot easier.   And then   depending on the chicken operation,   either eggs   or broilers.   And even if you're doing if even if you're doing just eggs,   you can harvest hens. They make great hen stock. The meat's tough.   It's tasty, but it's really, really tough. But hen stock yeah. Hen stock and then take the cart the carcass after it's been turned into hen stock, dog food, cat food that's really high quality.  

[01:37:30] Untapped Growth:

Well, it's not even bad if you eat it on your own if you stew it. If you slow cook it, it tenderizes it. They're super flavorful.  

[01:37:36] David Bennett:

Yeah. That that's true. But, see, now I've got a second yield of product.   And it did and and it actually helped the land   again in a different way.   And I've heard about people dragging quail three days after the chickens get off of it. Oh, why do they do that? It they get all the rest of the stuff   because they're they're smaller birds. The problem is managing quail in a in a in a run type situation is a little bit different than, you know, chicken tractors.   Yeah. People are kinda working on it. So it's it's more viable to not do that, but it can be done. So all of a sudden, that same paddock   is, you know, propagating this poundage of meat   and then another poundage of a different kind of meat. And if you do it on a third scale,   another poundage of of a third type of meat, and the land actually never it's not like you kept the cows on for nine straight days.  

You take the cows off. Three days later, you put chickens on. Three days later, you take the chickens off because they get to move to the other.   And this lee this leader follower   model   is something that really fascinates the crap out of me because the the amount of phosphorus that is in bird poop is just amazing. And   it's free it's it's it's plant available, which is unlike what you get when you put phosphate, you know, super phosphate or phosphate rock on the chemistry set that I got outside my door.  

[01:39:01] Untapped Growth:

Yep.   Yeah. I mean, it's really cool too because   now you've got the grazers match the life cycle of the grass,   and then the chickens are allowing you to get more biological   and actual, like,   fertilization of animal impact on the property, but without hurting the grass recovery cycle because they're not gonna clip the grass for that second bite like the cows would have. And you get all the omega threes from the fly larvae, so you got high quality chicken food.   The thing with chickens, in my opinion, is there a little bit higher input model because typically you have to import off farm grain feed and stuff. Yes. Versus cows, you get this deep resilience for the zombie apocalypse type investment network that I need, which is why they're kind of the backbone. Right. Because the cows, all I need is sunshine and rain. Right? Right. But,   I mean, if you can sustain   kind of farm sales,   you're importing fertility to regenerate your land really quickly because of bringing in off farm feed. So even if you're breaking even on your meat or your eggs, it's kinda worth it because you're building your pasture so quickly which benefits your larger operation.  



[01:40:04] David Bennett:

Yeah. It's just a it's just a spreadsheet function. You know? The the numbers either work or they don't.   It most from what I've seen,   most of the time, it actually works. But, again, it's a management issue. You know? It's just like Often  

[01:40:16] Untapped Growth:

often the chickens are a loss feeder too,   which works for the farm as a business. And you don't really mind doing it once you're up and going because it draws in like, your eggs draw in so many customers. They build your network for you. Right. Right.  

[01:40:29] David Bennett:

So is there is there anything else? Because, I mean, this is I love hearing about this stuff. And, you know, it didn't   you know, we've talked about it before, but yet somehow or another, it's like it's like Bitcoin. You need to be slapped in the face by about three or four times before I you know, you figure out, you know, exactly what it is that you're doing. And I'm I'm, like, super excited about this, which, again, you know, win Texas.   Is there any do you got anything else before we before we leave? Because we've been shit. We've been recording for a while, man.  

[01:41:00] Untapped Growth:

Yeah. I got a few other things I definitely like to cover. We can we can definitely do a series of stuff as well. I I get the five people and I could talk for a lot. I mean, I   could start jumping on with you week but we could cover all sorts of different topics. You know? Like, a random a random teaser for you. We were bumping into this just in another conversation.   You know that they used to do, like this is, like, pre vaccination type stuff. They were injecting cows' utters with   different types of contaminants like a virus or bacteria   to make the cows manufacture antibodies and using that to create health for people Yeah. Like more holistic type medical care. I mean, there's a whole vertical rabbit hole that I think you and I both would love. We could talk every week for hours, dude. Yeah. If if you let's  

[01:41:43] David Bennett:

we'll let's talk about doing that because I've been wanting to have, like, a returning, like, a recurring theme that comes up or, you know,   a recurring person or, like, something. And this is this sounds like this sounds like it. Because   when,   you know, when   you have a podcast,   you know, interview and and and the guy comes on and we talk about, you know, cows in Virginia,   you know, and and contracts and and the way we do that, we're doing what? We're pulling, like, one hair   off the ass of a wooly mammoth.   And we're not look. You know, the the amount of stuff that we can talk about   is so immense because we're re it's like a reawakening. We're rediscovering   what people five hundred years ago was that was just the way shit was. You know? And a lot and it just entered into my head. In fact,   there was   I've seen   over the years of my life a whole lot   of movies.  

And   in those movies, they always talk about the dust bowl. And these movies came out in the forties   and, you know, the fifties   And, like, you know, you got well, Giant was about an oil, you know, oil man, but there was still some some farming issues in there. And then you got Grapes of Wrath as a book that was remade. And, yeah, basically, the messaging was don't farm.   Don't do it.   Like, you know, these movies had these scenes of these just, like, Martian landscapes of just rock and dirt and the, you know, the banker coming up to repossess the house. And it was almost as if now I look at it and I go,   you know, tinfoil hat my ass, but was this messaging?  

You know, is it possible that they wanted to give a reason to scare the piss out of people? Because what I'm looking at when I look at regen ag,   I'm looking at beautiful landscapes that look like parks. I'm looking at possibilities of having, like, an operation,   you know, such as yourselves where people would actually want to come out   and have their wedding.  

[01:43:44] Untapped Growth:

Not exactly right by the cow paddock. But if you Yeah. But pastures don't smell at all. I did camping with my buddy out there in the pasture with him, sleeping in the middle of the great paddock. The cows are grazing under the pine trees. It was the most beautiful night of my life, dude. So Like, it's just gorgeous out there. Yeah. So the the you know, this land  

[01:44:03] David Bennett:

is they're all it's all gorgeous when it's put back together and it's fucking fixed the way it before it got all broke,   And there's trees and it's green and there's grass and there's pastures with little flowers. You know, you know, little Daisy May running around with a daisy in her hair. And it's like, holy shit. It's like, you know, freaking, you know, Little House on the Prairie.   And all of that can come back.   It's not impossible.   It's, like, right there within our lifetimes, my lifetime.  

[01:44:31] Untapped Growth:

And that's that's real farming.   That Dust Bowl is not farming.  

[01:44:35] David Bennett:

Yeah. That's mechanized techno, like, technology industry without respecting the underlying principles. Right. And I I still think that I I still think that it was like, those movies were made in such generation in at those times that it was almost as if   they didn't want Americans to go farm, so they scared the piss out of them. And then you got sustainability.   Yeah. And then you got buts. Like, because we talked about this on the phone, but I wanna mention it. You you got the what the fuck happened in 1971   web site that talks about all these economic calamities that that came out of the fact that Nixon took took us off the gold standard.  

What that website doesn't say   is that in that very same year was his secretary of agriculture, mister Butts,   who stood up Go big or go home. Go big or go home. And it destroyed the 40 acre family farm.   And all of a sudden, it was like it was almost as if, okay. Not it's like, well, okay. We're we're gonna do this to these guys. We're gonna screw them. We gotta make sure it sticks. How do we do that? It's like, well, first, we we we make sure that gold basically is detached from the dollar. It's like, yeah. Is that enough? And then somebody in the backroom said, no. They can't be resilient either.   They have to be fully dependent.  

And how do we do that? We make sure that we control the mechanisms   of,   of production   of food.   We gotta scare the piss out of them. We gotta make sure that they cannot farm. We gotta make sure, you   know, it's bad.  

[01:46:06] Untapped Growth:

Yeah. It's like the Henry Kissinger quote.   I was gonna try to pull it up for you. You'll love this one.   Who controls the food supply controls the people? Who controls the energy can control whole continents?   Who controls the money can control the world?   Mhmm. Mhmm. The farming and the and the money and all this, it just all goes hand in hand. And we're finally, as Bitcoiners, kinda getting back to fixing all of it. Yeah. Bitcoin fixes this. So, where can people find you?   Okay. So   I'm gonna have the website up and running. If that's up and running when we release this as I intend for it to be, sign ups are live. Even if we're not live in your state, go ahead and sign up.   When it's legal and we have that all squared away, I'll get in contact with the people who signed up.  

Desiring to do it in that state. So the website requests what state you're in and what state you're interested in.   So approvals of when I get back with people will be based upon their interest to get doing it being in a state where we've checked the legal boxes.   A few other things I wanted to cover real quick. Uh-huh. One of the magic keys that makes all this work is the low time preference between the investor and the rancher themself.   So with these cows doing a low input grazing system,   the average management task on a week to week basis is literally just going out with the electric fencing   to move the cows to the new grazing area. It's, like, thirty to forty minutes to move the cows tops. And you're removing them every two to three days, so   three times a week or so tops, unless you wanna be a little more intensive.  

So average weekly labor is five to six hours.   That labor is the same amount of labor, whether you got 20 cows or 220   cows. The labor's fixed. So that's part of what makes it work.   A lot of the people wanting to be a part of this are people that have remote work   where they're happy to go and ranch   an hour a morning here or there, five, six hours a week for the long time preference investment of having animal wealth as the animals are born. They don't need a lot of actual hourly salary in USD. Right? They're investing labor in this long saving than having animal wealth.   Same for the investors.  

They're not looking for immediate return. They're okay with the long time preference animal wealth return as well.   That ability to have the long time preference between the worker and the investor is what makes the magic of the system possible   because now we're not accounting for short term cash flows. We're all working together to create wealth of a long term hard asset type variety   through the fact that we can do this kind of on a part time like basis.   So that's important for people signing up to be a part of this to know that, like,   this ranching is not something you have to do full time. It's nowhere near. I mean, it's easy, easy, easy to do an hour here, an hour there as a part time gig.  

Now the goal would be for us to have multiple ranches where you can have one guy bouncing between an hour or two drive, the different ranch properties at a single kind of geographic area. Mhmm. And then you can kinda run him as a full time guy that's actually making pretty good money. But getting started off of this, we'll be looking for a lot of part time type workers.  

[01:49:23] David Bennett:

I think that covers the different stuff. There's so many different worlds I wanna dive into, dude. Well, we're gonna you we're you're gonna come back. I mean, that that's this is gonna be a deal now. So you're you're gonna come back.   But,   I I'm I'm, like, we're I'm I'm actually worried that I'm about to run out of hard drive, Ruben. I don't want it to crash the entire conversation, man.  

[01:49:44] Untapped Growth:

That's funny. I'll literally a little easier. One thing I'd like to talk about when we can jump back on,  

[01:49:50] David Bennett:

the relationship between central baking stealing from the future and stealing from soil fertility both being indicative of collateral collapse. Yes. That's a whole another rabbit hole I'd love to go down. Yeah. We could we could do we could oh, god. There's so much stuff that we're gonna be able to do on this one. I'm I'm getting really excited about this, man.   Let's cut it. Make sure we save it. Yeah. Let let's do that. But before I do that,   your Twitter handle. Make sure people know it. The website is untappedgrowth.com.  

[01:50:18] Untapped Growth:

We'll I'll send you a link to it when we go live. Okay. Absolutely. Now I'm gonna go ahead and cut this off, so say goodbye to the people. Appreciate it, brother. Thanks for the chat. Untapped,   man.  

[01:50:31] David Bennett:

So there it is. The interview with Untapped Growth.   Gonna have him on again.   Like you heard, we were talking about doing this maybe once a week.   This week has kinda, like, gotten away from me on,   in several different ways, but   we're gonna   I'm definitely gonna have him on again as,   somebody to talk to about this stuff in on a recurring fashion because like we talked about, there is an immense amount of things   that   we can do.   And I I get more and more excited about it every time I think about it, but this show's gone on too long. So I will see you on the other side.  

[01:51:10] David Bennett:

This has been Bitcoin, and and I'm your host, David Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and hope to see you again real soon.   Have a great day.