Ungovernable Misfits

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 ▎The Bitcoin Brief: What's This Show All About?

 
The Bitcoin Brief is a show hosted by Max and Bitcoin QnA. We cover important updates in the world of bitcoin and open source software. It is our imperative to provide some education along the way too, so that the misfits can expand their knowledge base and become more sovereign as a result.
 
 
 We do this every second week to keep our listeners informed without having to dedicate hours every day to keep on top of developments. We break things down in a simple and fun way and we welcome questions or topic suggestions via Podcasting 2.0 boosts.
 
 
 Thanks for listening you Ungovernable Misfits, we appreciate your continued support and hope you enjoy the shows.



 You can support this episode using your time, talent or treasure.
 
 
 
 ▎SHOW DETAILS

▎▎AOB

• Awesome feedback on the new show
• Max is back on Nostr!!!
• Free Samourai panel now available to watch
• Multisig panel also now available to watch
  
  

▎▎NEWS

 

• Pavel durov released on bail?
• Telegram changing FAQ answers around moderation
• WarzirX hacked - users getting haircut on returns
• Another solo miner wins a block
• X banned in Brazil 
• Chat control in the EU is back 
• Peter Todd drops L2/covenant breakdown (Guy Swann also done a read)
• Older Yubikeys vulnerable to attack
• Next Samourai hearing is Sept 17th
  
  

▎▎SOFTWARE & UPDATES

 

• Passport firmware 2.3.2 beta
• Blixt 0.7.0
• Cake version 4.19.5
• Anonstr is released
• Nunchuk mobile apps Android (v1.9.50) and iOS (v1.9.53) ship with new and improved Coin Collection settings, a refactored sign-in flow, and other bug fixes and improvements.
• Phoenix Android v2.3.7 introduces support for custom 6-digits PIN code specific to Phoenix. It can replace or coexist with the user's ScreenLock.
  
  
  • Phoenix iOS v2.3.3 brings compatibility improvements for BOLT12 payments.
• Jippi, a new interactive Bitcoin education app for beginners to earn and learn about Bitcoin with others, is now available for download on both Android and iOS.
• NymVPM beta now public
• Live wallet v0.7
  
  

 
 ▎VALUE FOR VALUE


▎▎TIME:

• create fountain clips for the show
• create a meetup
• help boost the signal on social media
   
  
  
  

▎▎TALENT:

• create ungovernable misfit inspired art, animation or music
• design or implement some software that can make the podcast better
• use whatever talents you have to make a contribution to the show!
   
  
  
  

▎▎TREASURE:

• BOOST IT on the Podcasting 2.0 apps (https://podcastapps.com)
• STREAM SATS
• DONATE via Paynym @ https://paynym.is/+maxbuybit
• BUY SOME CLOTHING @ https://ungovernablemisfits.com/store/
• MONERO @ https://xmrchat.com/ugmf
  
  

 
 ▎SHOW SPONSORS

 
 ▎▎FOUNDATION -  https://foundation.xyz/ungovernable

 
Foundation builds Bitcoin-centric tools that empower you to reclaim your digital sovereignty.

As a sovereign computing company, Foundation is the antithesis of today's tech conglomerates. Returning to cypherpunk principles, they build open source technology that "can't be evil".
 
 
 Thank you Foundation Devices for sponsoring the show.
 
 
 Use code: Ungovernable for $10 off of your purchase
 

(00:00:00) INTRO

(00:00:41) THANK YOU FOUNDATION

(00:01:53) This is 40

(00:07:22) Nostrilling

(00:16:09) Things That Annoy Max

(00:23:01) FREESAMOURAI Panel

(00:23:29) MULTISIG PANEL

(00:24:14) BOOSTS

(00:30:46) NEWS

(00:30:48) Durov Released on Bail

(00:31:25) Telegram FAQ Answers Change

(00:34:13) WarzirX Gets Hacked

(00:36:35) Solo Miner Hits a Block!

(00:37:38) Brazil Battles X (Formerly Known as Twitter)

(00:39:27) Chat Control Resurfaces in the EU

(00:45:41) Peter Todd Breaks Down L2's & Covenants

(00:46:51) YubiKey Vulnerability

(00:49:30) Samourai Wallet Legal Case Update

(00:50:53) MORE BOOSTS

(01:05:24) UPDATES & RELEASES

(01:05:27) Passport Firmware 2.3.2 BETA

(01:11:16) Blixt Wallet v7.0.0

(01:12:35) Cake Wallet Moves to BIP 39

(01:13:22) New Flow @ Nunchuk

(01:14:03) Anonstr: Disposable Key Pairs

(01:14:50) Bitcoin Education with Jippi

(01:15:37) NymVPN Beta is Now Open to the Public

(01:17:53) Live Wallet Update

(01:19:57) Let's Hit the Voicemail

(01:34:52) Wen Monero in Passport?

(01:36:14) What You Know Bout DLC's?

(01:45:48) Bye and #FREESAMOURAI

[00:00:04] Unknown:

Bitcoin   is close to becoming   worthless.   Now what's the Bitcoin?  

[00:00:19] Unknown:

Bitcoin's like rat poison.  

[00:00:20] Unknown:

Yeah.   Oh. The greatest scam in history.  

[00:00:25] Unknown:

Let's get it.   Bitcoin will go to fucking   0.  

[00:00:42] Unknown:

The Bitcoin monthly   is dead.   Long live the Bitcoin brief.   I'm gonna keep this intro brief because I've been editing all day,   and I was supposed to have this episode   finished   and over to Jordan about 3 hours ago.   Before we start, I do wanna say a big thank you to everyone who's been boosting and supporting the show,   and a huge thank you to Foundation Devices for keeping this show alive.   We cover a lot of the updates in this episode, so I won't go into massive detail.   All I'm gonna say is I've been using Foundation devices   from the very beginning.  

There's never a time when I wanna try something else because this is the best hardware out there with the best team.   It's fully open source.   It's beautifully designed,   and it is fuckwit resistant.   If you haven't already seen or used one of these devices,   check them out at foundation.xyzed.   And if you want a discount and let them know that I sent you, you can use the code Ungovernable.   The link's in the show notes too.   Enjoy the show.  

[00:01:54] Unknown:

Good morning, sir. How are we doing?  

[00:01:56] Unknown:

Very, very well. Feeling a bit emotional today, to be honest. Oh, really? What's that? 40 episodes   together.   40   months  

[00:02:07] Unknown:

of recording every month. Does that make us brothers or family in some way? Or what does that mean? From the some sort of bond there, I would agree. Yeah. Yeah. I I can't actually leave that. I like you said earlier, offline completely just passed me by that we'd done so many shows, and, we're ironically about to double the output as well. We've already started doubling the output, should I say? We have. Yeah. We just slightly jumped the gun on number 39.  

[00:02:31] Unknown:

But, yeah, 40. I was just as I was writing it in, labeling it before we recorded, I was like, fuck. It's actually such a long time. Like, I remember actually first having the conversation about doing a monthly show after we've recorded just like a general podcast.  

[00:02:47] Unknown:

I remember thinking, oh, that would be really cool to chat to this guy a little bit more. And here we are. I'm, do you ever go back and listen to the old ones? I I think I might do it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I know I'm gonna fucking hate it.   Yeah. We're a well oiled machine now, but Yeah. I can imagine back in the day, it was very,   how could I put it? Of a low polish, let's say. Yes. Less polish. There you go. Thank you. Thank you. But, yeah, I am gonna I've I've added that to my to do list for this week to to go back to go sign and and to sit through an hour of hearing myself cringe.  

[00:03:22] Unknown:

Yeah. I haven't done that actually. I used to. I used to, like,   really obsess   at the very beginning   over, like,   you know, listening back to shows and then being like, oh, you know, I should have mentioned this or, oh, I should have done that. But I think when you just do as many as we do and also I listen to it all in in the editing. So I just like Yeah. I never feel the the need to listen back. But,  

[00:03:46] Unknown:

yeah, maybe. Maybe one day. I must admit, I do listen back because I like to kind of hear how I describe things so that I can kind of hone my craft somewhat and think of different ways to break down different topics and stuff. And I am very, very thankful for the amount of time that you put into editing and making me sound way smarter than,   than the live version.  

[00:04:05] Unknown:

Yeah. And also the editing is me going back and listening   to everything. And, like, I quite often come up with ideas from doing it or like, oh, this bit could be broken up or this thing could be changed or we could add this in. And so it's like I would do if I'm painting.   I would, like, consistently   go back and go over things and change things and adapt things, and that would be a process that would go on for months months months. So maybe it comes from that. Yeah. It's well, it's definitely additive to the show for sure. While we're on this note, just something that's completely unplanned and popped into my head. I'm curious  

[00:04:40] Unknown:

what percentage of our listener base listens to this show on more than one x speed. Because this I found out fairly recently that this this is quite a common thing that people will crank up the listening speed for a lot of their podcasts.   Do you do it?  

[00:04:55] Unknown:

No. I can't. Yeah. My brain just can't, like, take it in. I like, I could I could take it in   at a faster speed, but I don't enjoy it.   And for me, like, I'm listening to   podcasts because I enjoy it. It's something that, like, if I'm on a drive   or, like, I'm on a walk occasionally, I'll do it. And it's just a chance to, like, switch off from everything else and just, like, break away from things. And if I'm suddenly listening to something on 2 x speed, it's just not enjoyable. Mhmm. I understand why people do it, though. If they just wanna take in information maybe I would have done   it early days of Bitcoin when I would just literally, I would consume, like, 10 hours a day of information, just all I did for, like, a couple of years. And so then maybe it's like, okay. Well, I can double my output here. Mhmm. Yeah. That makes sense from that perspective, I guess, if you if your brain can handle it. So curious what the what our listeners do. So, you know, hit us up in the comments to Let us know. Let us know what speed you use to to support our tones. They turn it on just to support us, just so our numbers look good, and then they mute it and go, fuck that.  



[00:06:03] Unknown:

And then just feed the, transcript into an AI for a quick one sentence summary. Yeah.  

[00:06:09] Unknown:

Summary.  

[00:06:11] Unknown:

Well, let us know. But, there's been some fantastic feedback on the new show. Obviously, we'll get into that with some boost shortly. But, yeah, to everybody that's kind of messaged via the various different platforms   and and given us some great feedback on the new shows, format and frequency and name, etcetera, thank you to you all for getting involved.   One thing I will say, Max, no 10,000,000 SAP boost yet to change the name, which   I guess we could look at as a good thing because that was a a bit of a double edged sword. We could have, got ourselves into a bit of a pickle there. Well, I think long term, it's for the best, isn't it? Because,  

[00:06:46] Unknown:

2 retails, 1 cup, or whatever people would have called it would would not probably do well in the charts or anywhere else. So I think it's probably for the best, but 10,000,000 stats would have been nice. I think SolEx   threatened to do it and   was it wartime? I can't remember. Someone else was talking about they were considering it, but no one did it. So, the office closed, and we are sticking with the Bitcoin brief. I was keeping my eye on Geyser dot fund just in case,  

[00:07:14] Unknown:

you know, they did to they were gonna do, like, a Bitcoin whip round to all collaborate in on this and have a little vote on it. But but nothing popped up, thankfully. So I think we survived that one. We did. In other news,   thanks to, in no part, to mister Nathan Day, you're back on Nostril full time, mate. How's it been? Nostrilink.   Nostrilink.   Oof. It's  

[00:07:34] Unknown:

underwhelming,   I would say.   I'm persevering. I'm trying.   He was just so frustrating. He literally badgered me into submission. I just thought, if I have to see one more message from him or Ben Gunn   fucking whinging on about me not being on Loster,   I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't think the show would've continued. So I thought I'd give it a go. In summary,   not great.   The   Android   app, whatever it was that I started using, just Amethyst? Fucking Amethyst,   totally spazzed out. None of the connections would work. I tried resetting it. Tried doing the noster dot wine and all the different ones that people suggested. Just nothing would connect. Fucking useless.   Deleted that out of frustration.  

Used DAMAS.   That is   pretty good. It's been pretty easy to set everything up. Connected that to my fountain   so I can actually message and respond to people.   That was relatively slick as well. But, actually, the best experience that I've had so far   is on what's it called?   I messaged about it the other day.   This motherfucker here.   Primal,   but just in a browsing window on my laptop   Mhmm. By far the best experience.   Like, I I don't find it to be shit. So far, it's been good. Like, it feels   it feels like Twitter,   basically.  

I've chosen a nice dark mode.   It gives me all the trending stuff on the right. It feels familiar.   It's pretty fast and easy to use.   That's what I'm liking using the most. And then after that would be this damask thing. Okay. People have been responding and zapping and all that kind of stuff. And I'm starting to   I'm starting to understand the appeal of it   because it is a lot better than it was when I gave up on it last time, whatever, you know, a year and a half ago or something like that. It is a lot better now. So I have some hope that it continues to improve, and   as much   feedback that's been negative as I've had on   fountain   using it and that you can only respond if you have it after a conversation with Oscar   couple of days ago,   I do understand   why they're doing what they're doing, and we're gonna have a conversation. He's gonna come on. We're gonna do a confab.  

Nice. And I'm starting to see that there could be something here. I'm not, as you know, technical enough to know whether this is actually just gonna be a fad and bullshit and just a load of nonsense with a load of Bitcoiners fucking wanking each other off over this thing called Nosta. It could well be, but if it does what I'm being told by some people that I respect   or what it can do, then it's pretty awesome. So I'll I'll keep trying. Very cool. Appreciate the the detailed feedback there. I just have two points  

[00:10:36] Unknown:

back to you. You mentioned that you like Primal on desktop. Were you aware that they've got cross platform mobile apps as well? So if you like that UX, then you can have that on your phone too. I downloaded  

[00:10:47] Unknown:

Primal,   the app on my Mac,   and fucked around with that. I think I prefer   DAMAS   on the phone.   Okay. But I much prefer primal on the on the,  

[00:11:01] Unknown:

on the Mac. Yeah. And the fact that you just summarized that so beautifully leads me perfectly into my second point is that although, yes, you've had some less than ideal experiences across the different apps, you've already experienced   the whole or the primary use case of Nostra and the the architecture of it in the fact that if you don't like one client, you can just fuck off and go to another one or another one or another one and just take your social graph with you. So whilst, yes, the reason why you were switching wasn't great, the fact that you can is kinda the whole point. Yeah. No. I get that, and and I appreciate that. I think it's cool. I think the other thing that's really pulled me back and and one of the main reasons I did give up last time was  

[00:11:43] Unknown:

that is a brilliant   thing that you can take your social graph with you and you own your tweets or whatever you call them. What do you call them? Notes? Mhmm. You own your notes, and you can leave and go to another platform, and no one no one can technically remove you.   I like that. But what I don't like is I don't feel   my NSEC and my NPub is particularly secure.   I don't feel   you know, like, if I was using an n second and NPUB in the way that I am, but it was my private keys for Bitcoin,   I would feel   extremely   nervous.  

Mhmm. And at some point, this data   or control of this data or me signing messages   could be very valuable to me. Right now is I don't really give a fuck. Like, if someone wants to sell my my end pub or whatever and post a dick pic or do something, like, I'm like, I I literally don't really care. But, you know, if I continue to use it and   he gains a certain follower count and the show Yeah. Continues to grow and then someone posts something   saying, like, me endorsing   a certain product or service, which turns out to be a scam or something like that, then that would seriously concern me because then maybe listeners get harmed.   And I'm not comfortable with   the storage   or use of these keys, and I wish there was a better way. And I'm I I've I've heard that people are working on things. But right now, coming from a Bitcoin mindset,   it doesn't feel comfortable or safe.  



[00:13:17] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely fair. And you're absolutely right that people there's multiple different ways in which this is trying to be fixed.   Couple of ones that spring to mind are the Amber app, which is Android only, which is very simple open source app that holds your end sec and then communicates with things like Amethyst   or Primal or whatever. So that any time that you hit like or you repost or you send a note or upload a picture or something like that for it to be signed, the request goes locally across your phone from one app to the other to Amber for it to be signed by the NSEK that Amber's holding. So you can compartmentalize it so that you're only putting your trust in one small open source app versus just pasting your NSEK everywhere.   Another alternative is like a self hosted signing server that's called NSEK Bunker. I've never actually tried that onboard. Just know that it exists and I'm sure there's loads of other stuff as well.  

Key rotation is, I believe still an unsolved problem. And I think that seems to be the holy grail in the fact that if your primary end set gets compromised   or stolen or whatever, then having a way for you to cryptographically   move from one to to another so that people know that, okay, anything from this old key, ignore it now because it's considered compromised. You will now find all of my happenings at this new NSEC   here. That's unsolved at the moment, but, you know, the clever people work that shit out. Do you know what makes sense to me  

[00:14:38] Unknown:

is something like   you create   a key offline   on a device like a passport.   And then when you   use   your NSEC and that's put in anywhere,   it's not actually your NSEC. It's like a a bit like a is it BIP 85 child seed? Yeah. That's what's already been worked on. So a similar architecture to that. Yeah. So you're on the right lines. So so something like that would make perfect sense to me. It's like, okay. I have this thing that could be very, very valuable to me. So I'm gonna create that offline air gapped,   and then there's, like, something that's derived from that that only I can control,   and I can flip through them   if it ever gets compromised, but no one ever touches that, like, master key   because that is actually held in this offline device. Yep. I put a lot more effort into   growing and working on Nostra and, like, getting through the frustrations of it as I have with Bitcoin   if it was at that stage. Because to me, then I'm like, okay. No. This is not only potentially valuable, but I actually can secure it as well. Right now, I'm like, this could potentially be valuable, but I probably can't secure it. And if it is valuable, someone's probably gonna fuck with it. Yeah. Makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. Like I said, I'm sure we'll get a solution, something similar to that within the next 12 or 18 months. Okay. Because it is the the biggest problem that needs to get fixed aside from, like, the spam side of things.  



[00:16:08] Unknown:

Okay. Watch this, Bryce. Quick tangent. And for the listeners, Max doesn't know I'm gonna ask him this. Oh, no. Okay. I I had a a a note,   last week,   and I wanted your opinion on it. Not on on the note, but your your answer to the question. So the note says, everyone has those small insignificant things in their life that they know shouldn't annoy them. Those things annoy them anyway despite us knowing them having zero material impact on your life. Here are 5 of my examples. I was asking for other people's opinions as well, but here's mine.   Number 1, bits,   as in Bitcoin denomination.  

Like, people are still people are still trying to make that a thing. Like, just No. No. No. No. Number 2, pronouncing nosta, nosta.   And maybe I should do that with an American accent because it seems to be mostly Americans that say it that way. Yeah. That's not a no store.   Number 3, when things are priced 5.99   instead of just 6.  

[00:17:06] Unknown:

You're gonna have a very hard time in life if that annoys you because it's everywhere.  

[00:17:12] Unknown:

Yeah. I know. And I know it just makes no difference to me. It makes no difference whatsoever. I'm just like, but let's say I'm trying to buy 2 if I wanna buy 2 things and they're both something 99,   like, it's it's much easier for me to add them up if they were just round numbers. And then you get the 2 p change, and you're like, oh, fucking that. I've got a load of shrapnel. I'm gonna do with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Number 4, coffee shops that only sell drinks in one size.   Now this,   again, is probably my own problem because I like to go to, like,  

[00:17:41] Unknown:

small kind of I guess you could Little independent.  

[00:17:45] Unknown:

Yeah. Little independent ones that you generally see the yeah. Wonky ones that you see the hipsters in with their MacBooks in the corner, and they're probably a they're probably a designer of some sort. That's me. Yeah. Yeah. And I go to them as well because, obviously, I experienced this problem. But clearly, it's not a big enough issue to stop me going, but it still annoys me because the coffees that they serve, although they're beautiful, like, I want it to be double the size. And I don't wanna have to buy 2 at £4 each. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. Again, it doesn't annoy me enough that I it's gonna send me to to Costa or or Caffeineer or anything like that. So,  

[00:18:18] Unknown:

number 5, food outlets that force you to order on a screen or via an app instead of just speaking to a human being. Agreed. It winds me up as well because it reminds me of the COVID times. You where everyone had those stupid little fucking order on a QR code   things. Yeah.  

[00:18:35] Unknown:

So yeah. Max, I wanna hear yours, and I also wanna hear the listener. So hit us up with a comment with your trivial things that annoy you even though they have no material impact to your life. Do you know what's the most trivial that annoys me every almost every single day? And it annoys me to the point where I almost lose my shit like proper, proper rage.  

[00:18:53] Unknown:

My washing machine   slash dryer,   which is almost always going because kids and dog and fucking everything else,   it does this beep when it finishes.   It's like beep.   Beep.   Beep.   And it doesn't just do it, like, once or twice or three times. It continuously   does it until you actually go and turn the fucking thing off. Yes. What the   no. No. No. No. I'd have to throw that out. Oh, mate. It annoys me so much. I fucking lose my shit every single day. I've turned it off before we started recording even though it was halfway through drying, because I was like, I know you're gonna fucking start beeping when I record. And if that happens, my laptop isn't gonna go out the fucking window. It doesn't annoy my missus at all. She can just leave it. Sometimes she'll leave it running, and I'm doing something. And I'll hear it for, like, an hour, and I'll just be raging. Why don't you turn the fucking thing off? She's like, why?   Because it is  

[00:19:51] Unknown:

trivial, but, yeah, I hate it. Yeah. Similar to that, you just prompted another one in my brain. My wife, when she cooks,   she will leave the extractor fan running after she's finished cooking. No.   No. Yeah. I live in a fairly small house and the kitchen's like right next to the the living room. So like, if it's going, you can't hear the TV.  

[00:20:10] Unknown:

No. I couldn't cope with that.  

[00:20:12] Unknown:

Yeah. Me neither.  

[00:20:14] Unknown:

Is that because we're both maybe slightly   Autistic.   Like leaning towards the autism  

[00:20:20] Unknown:

side? Absolutely.  

[00:20:21] Unknown:

But so is my wife. So is she. Is she? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. More so than me. She's way higher up the spectrum than me. I often wonder that because, like, a lot of the friends that I have are also maybe leaning that way and very particular   about things.   And then, like, my missus, who's, like, the most laid back person in the world, like, literally couldn't give a fuck, she just won't care about stuff like that. And, like, the specific way that things, like, have to be lined up in the kitchen or where things are or, like,   noises. Any noise will wind me up so much. It, like, I can't bear it.  

Like, if there's 2 noises at the same time when I'm trying to concentrate on something  

[00:21:01] Unknown:

Not happening. No. No.   Well, funny enough, I've just I've just quickly checked the comments on on my original note, and there's there's one here that you'll resonate with. It's from Nick, and it says, I'm annoyed when home doors are loudly closed instead of turning the handle slightly to allow the door to close quietly.  

[00:21:17] Unknown:

Mhmm. Yeah. That's fair enough.  

[00:21:19] Unknown:

Another one from him. I love this sort of stuff. It's so funny.   From the same guy, Nick. Software version numbers that have more digits than a phone number. We feel your pain having to read them out on the show, Nick. Which, which Nick is this? Clokenga?  

[00:21:33] Unknown:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That is annoying. Good points. Well, if anyone else has any unreasonable   things that they get annoyed with, let us know. I'll adopt them.  

[00:21:43] Unknown:

Last one, and this will divide the room, and then I'm just gonna mic drop and walk away from this one. Go on. Toilet paper orientation.   Must come over the top and never under.  

[00:21:54] Unknown:

I agree, by the way. Yeah. That's from Sun of the Moon. I don't know that that would annoy me that much. It wouldn't annoy me that much because I just am happy now if there is toilet roll because   my oldest   loves nothing more than stealing toilet roll and then running away with it, hiding in a cupboard, and eating it and spitting it everywhere. Like, Jenny, if there's a toilet roll, but it's or actually kitchen roll, if it's left anywhere, it will take the chair from the kitchen over to whatever surface the thing's on. It will climb up, take it, scurry   away, hide, and I'll be like, oh, it's quiet.  

Hold on. Nothing's being broken here. Oh, okay.   And then I go and have a look, and it's just there just munching and spitting it all out everywhere. So it's very often I go to use the toilet, and I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake. So just any toilet roll does for me now.  

[00:22:51] Unknown:

Nice. Okay. Well, yeah, comment below with your, minor annoyances that have zero impact on your life. That   was that was quite a tangent, but, I enjoyed that. Yeah. I enjoyed that. Should we do some boosts? Oh, no. Before we do boosts, I apologize, quick two more points of AOB.   Yeah. There are 2 panels now available on the Bitcoin Magazine YouTube channel from panels in Nashville. The first one and the most important is the free samurai panel with econo,   the 2 lawyers, Tor and forgot the other guy's name, and Diversar as well. Obviously, incredibly important. The most important news topic that's been ongoing for quite some time in the whole Bitcoin industry. So please go and check that out and familiarize yourself with it. The second one is myself with SeedSiner, Andy   from Coinkite talking about multisig. And if you wanna hear what the fuck all the guys are talking about in terms of my calves, you can go and watch it there.  



[00:23:42] Unknown:

I've been training calves just before we do it. Oh. I've been training calves 3 times a week now because I just feel so inferior.   I just like I'll finish a session, and then I'll just be like, just fucking just throw in some calves quickly. Let's just do, like, 15 minutes of calves. I'm gonna try and catch up with you, mate. It will never happen, but I'm trying. Nice to hear I'm having a positive impact on your life. I would say negative because I just feel so inferior. I wake up every morning, I just look in the mirror and I go, you'll never be Q. You will never be Q.  

[00:24:13] Unknown:

Never give up on your dreams. Right. Should we hit some boosts?  

[00:24:16] Unknown:

Yes.   Hashlatet.   A 101,101.   Thank you, Hashlatet.   Thank you, daddy.   Love heart.   I told you they were ungovernable.   Anarchist flag.   I think this was on the   last show from,   our new sponsor, wasn't it? I assume that that's her sugar daddy.  

[00:24:41] Unknown:

Oh oh, of course. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I remember.   Hats off to Harsh Lissett, by the way. Like, she seems to be at the top of the boost list every week. Well, every other week now. She's keeping us going. That is, a nontrivial amount of sats. So thank you so much. We appreciate that. Also about nontrivial amounts of sats. Bon has boosted with 101,010   sats.   Happy feedbacks and everyone involved in a podcast. Let's fucking go.   Ungovernable misfits is one of the highest signal podcasts out there. I wholeheartedly agree, and I truly thank you for that very, very generous boost. Yeah. Thank you, Bon. You've been there from the beginning, and there's people like you who have kept this going and  

[00:25:22] Unknown:

helped me take this leap. So thank you, mate.   Late stage HODL,   55,555   SATs.   Congrats on the new life plans, Max. I wish you only the best.   Q and a, it was good to meet you briefly at Nashville.   I appreciate all you both do, but I will say I was expecting a full mask,   like a helmet over the head for your talk.   Sounds like Bifrost Manufacturing needs to make a real helmet for q and a for next conference.   Oh.   Well, firstly, thank you, late stage huddle. Thank you very much for your support.   And secondly, yeah, that is actually a very good idea. They can make literally anything from any material that you could think of, that you could dream of. They can 3 d print in metal.   They can 3 d print ceramic.  

They can build   anything. So I guess what we're thinking is maybe something like an Ironman   style   helmet that would clip on   and give Kyu the,   the full coverage, and everyone would recognize him, but also keep his privacy. That's not a bad idea.  

[00:26:31] Unknown:

I would if somebody makes, a real helmet version of my robot avatar, I would 100% wear that on any talk I ever do in public.   Okay. My only request is please try and make it out of some material so that I don't lose my vision when I speak because the get up that I had on in Nashville, just a mask, hat, and sunglasses,   every time I spoke,   the hot air was trapped behind the mask, and it was coming up out of the top of the mask straight into the sunglasses and then fogging them up. So anytime that I spoke, I just couldn't see anything at all. Okay. And then slow as I stopped speaking, slowly the the mist from the glasses would dissipate, and then I could see everything again. Well, if anyone can do it, it's Bifrost.  

[00:27:13] Unknown:

Maybe you can do something in your Imaginarium.   You can create something.   Maybe we say that they can have, like, a Bifrost stamp somewhere on your forehead or something like that so people know who's made it if they make it. Chad f, our resident Podverse maximalist  

[00:27:29] Unknown:

boosted with a very generous 50,000 sats. Congrats on making the jump, Max. Here's some sats to get you started. Thank you, mate. I appreciate that. Barn miner.  

[00:27:39] Unknown:

Oh, so now the gates of hell you repent. Oh, so now at the gates of hell you repent.   Go fuck yourself, Charles.  

[00:27:48] Unknown:

Okay. I guess that's Charles Muriel. I think he's talking about mister Munger.  

[00:27:52] Unknown:

Our our recent sponsor. Charlie Munger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Of course, he does.   We'll eat? How would you say that? We'll eat? We all eat. It's, it's Chad. Jeez. And it's we all eat, and that's his little motto. We all eat. He's always generous. And wherever he goes, he makes sure that everyone eats and everyone's looked after. So we all eat. Well, he's boosted with 21,021  

[00:28:17] Unknown:

sats, and he says, fuck yeah. About fuck your time, Max, you English couldn't.   John and Crown been working their asses off while you've been fating with the faggins.  

[00:28:33] Unknown:

We love you, Chet. Rod Palmer   on Nosta.  

[00:28:36] Unknown:

Get after it, Max. Huxley boosted with 20,000 sats, said good luck, Max. Banana man with 20,000   sats. Just a love heart for me, probably. And sweet. Mister mister with 10,101   sats says 2 weeks to go. Yippee.  

[00:28:52] Unknown:

Rod Palmer.   I connected my grandpa's Bluetooth.   He doesn't know about AI, and this orange pilled him.  

[00:29:02] Unknown:

Late stage Huddl boosted 10,000 sats. Looks like an error on q and a for the last boost. Maybe this one works.   If not, then maybe someone will notice and fix. Otherwise, where did those days end up? I presume I guess. Yeah. I presume AutoCorrect has has,   stuck a finger up his bum there and screwed him.   Yeah. I   note not connected or something? I think it was a certificate.   The certificate for my BT pay server, the SSL cert ran out, and I didn't notice. Because somebody else messaged me on NOS to saying that the the boost are failing. So after I renewed that, everything seems to work. So I'm guessing it was that. So I apologize. Late stage title, but it looks like your boost made it through anyway. So thank you. Okay.  

[00:29:44] Unknown:

Fundamentals.   Awfully tempted to spend 10,000,000 sats to name your new show,   Rock Paper Bitcoin.   Funny talkers edition.   Maybe it's tax deductible.   Congrats, Max. We all look up to you in the podcast game. Thanks for showing us the way, and best of luck. That is a major concern. Do not ever be looking up to me, mate. And anyone who hasn't checked it out, rock paper Bitcoin, well worth a listen, and thank you fundamentals for all the support. I appreciate you, mate. Birdflip on Nosta boosted 10,000 sats, and he said, I'm bullish on this Bitcoin show. Let's fucking go. Nice.   New listener. I saw him   posting yesterday as well. Had a passport   posting a little picture of it. Great choice. Yeah. Very nice choice.  

Okay. Should we, should we jump into some news and then we'll do the rest of the boost later? Because we've got, like, fucking 70.  

[00:30:41] Unknown:

Yeah. There's a lot of boosts. Not complaining. Thank you so much for your support. Yeah. We'll come back and do some more later. Okay. On to the news.   Mister Pavel Durov has been released on €5,000,000   bail,   but he is not allowed to leave the country of France,   presumably, so that they can grab him once they've decided some other shit to throw it back at him.   Yeah. So this is the the Telegram founder, CEO   that was captured by French authorities   a couple of weeks ago under the usual   shtick of being complicit in all of the illegal things just by running a server that people chat on. So he's been released on bail, can't leave the country, presumably   because there's, you know, they continue to investigate everything that's going on with Telegram. At the same time, there has been some   slightly concerning changes to the   FAQs on the Telegram website website. About this. What are they doing? So the general gist of it is that you can now flag or report,   quote, unquote, illegal   content   to Telegram moderators   from within private chats,   essentially, meaning that these private chats are not private   Shock horror. Yeah. Yeah. So they there was a a question before before all this went down. They said, there's legal content on Telegram. How do I take it down? It says, all Telegram chats and group chats are private amongst their participants. We do not process any requests related to them. And now it says, all Telegram apps have report buttons that let you flag illegal content to our moderators in just a few taps. And it goes on and on and on. But basically, that applies to to all chats now, it it would seem. But again, like, I I said this last time, but I wanna reiterate it. Like, Telegram has never   or should never have been looked at as a as a private messenger.  

Mhmm. The whole stack was not fully open source and still is not fully open source. So even though they had these quote unquote private chats, you there was never a way for you to verify that in the same way that you could with something like Simplex or Signal. You were already trusting that these private chats were private. Now based on their actions with law enforcement prior to all this going down, you know, you could probably have a fairly good guess that maybe they were telling the truth, but you would never able to verify it. But this is kind of another nail in the coffin in the fact that, you know, potentially, these private chats are no longer private because you can flag illegal content to their moderators.   This action, there's no smoke without fire. This is almost certainly as part of, you know, whatever's going on with him and the the French authorities to kind of soften the blow or keep himself out of jail. Yeah. I never really  

[00:33:11] Unknown:

put a huge amount of trust in the secret chats, but I still used them because I was like, well, you know, it's better than nothing if someone didn't have signal   or simplex or PGP or   whatever. But, yeah, obviously, now that makes it pretty clear. I I guess I think it's been said many times. It's like it should really be viewed as, like, a social media platform   and consider   it that way in terms of, like, this is viewed by many people. It is not secure. It is not private, but it's really fucking good   at what it does, and there's nothing else that really competes   with what it does yet. We still run the mesh to Dell on there. We still run the group.  

We still do it, like, organize a lot of shit on there, and it's just kind of it's the place that a lot of people are. But if there was something else   that worked as well, you might see the move. I think signal's kind of close, isn't it? But it's just not quite as easy to use or have as many features.  

[00:34:12] Unknown:

Yeah. Agreed.   Indian   exchange crypto exchange war 0x,   which I've never heard of until this news article. Oh, it's one of the best, mate. Yeah. Well, it was. It's halted withdrawals after losing $230,000,000   worth of its crypto asset reserves,   essentially 50% of everything it owns. So not a massive exchange. Obviously, that's a lot of money, but comparative to the big dogs. Losing it from trading or losing it from a hack? It's been hacked. The Mumbai based firm said one of its multisig wallets has suffered a security breach,   which kind of is is a little bit,   alarming because they say that I think it was like   a a 6 key yeah. What was it said is, well, it had 6 signatories, 5 of whom were within the team. So it's essentially an inside job, it has to be. Unless they've been extremely   careless with where they're storing each of these keys. And, again, it it depends on how many of those 6 it needed to sign. That's not  

[00:35:12] Unknown:

communicated in the in the news article. I generally assume they're all inside jobs. Yeah. Whenever I hear, like, they were hacked, I'm like,   were they, though?   Were they really? Because it'd be so much easier for it to be an inside job. And it's like, how do you make obscene amounts of money very quickly   would be to do something like that. Mhmm. I either think it's inside job within the company   or it's like government or some other pressure   that wraps it up to look as though it's a hack so that they can have those funds for some other dirty shit that they might be doing.  

[00:35:48] Unknown:

Yeah. But it's okay. They've got a recovery plan, which they've, since communicated to their users. They've got a plan, and everybody's gonna get 55%   of what they previously had back. Oh, that's alright then. That includes   users   that so let's say you only use this this Shitcoin Casino   to buy, I don't know, let's call it let's say Dogecoin, and Dogecoin wasn't part of the hack, you still got 100% of your holdings,   then you're also only gonna get access to 55% of it. So they're socializing all the losses so that   Brilliant. Everybody gets 55%   of their stuff back,   irrespective of which, yeah, assets you were holding on there. Genius. Call that? Borrow from Peter to pay Paul?  

Yeah. Yeah. Or just screwing over everyone. Brilliant.   Love it. We have another Bitcoin solo miner that's mined a blockmate in the last couple of weeks. Oh, was it you? It wasn't me, unfortunately.   One of my Bituks has has actually been acting up a bit lately, so, hindering my chances even more. It seems to be back hashing Capaly again now, but,   not sure what's up with it. But, yeah, this,   this solar miner is not quite as,   staggering as the previous one with where we knew it was a bit tax because this miner had quite a lot of hash rate for a solar miner. Okay. They had   38 petahash   Oh.  

Which   is quite a lot, I believe. I'm not great with mining,   you know, exponentials to go from terahash to gigash, blah blah blah. That's kind of yours and John's field. Well, that sounds like a lot to me. Just looking at the Bitcoin Mag article, it says this miner would, on average, solve a block   every 4 months just on their own. So I guess maybe it's not quite as staggering, but, yeah, that's, that's quite a lot of hash. A lot of hash. Yeah. Well, congratulations, John. Glad to hear you finally hit that, mate.   Where are we next?  

Oh, x. I I don't know. I I failed to to call x, actually. Twitter has been banned in Brazil.   Mister Rocketman   Musk has been in a bit of a spot with a Supreme Court judge over there. For some reason, I'm not entirely sure why, they've   closed all of their offices in Brazil. Basically just said, yeah, we're not complying with your I think they wanted to block certain accounts, and Elon and the team just basically said no. So the judges fought back and said, okay, fuck you. Nobody in the whole country now can use your app. The really frightening thing here is that they are threatening   the general public with an $8,874   daily fine for anybody found accessing it via a VA. Daily. Daily, which equates to 50,000   reas, the the local currency, which is wild. Right? I don't think Brazil  

[00:38:34] Unknown:

generally has the highest earners. So, like Exactly. $8,000   in the US per day is, like, would fuck most people's lives up. I think Mhmm. People in Brazil on average, you're destroyed. It's, yeah, it's fucked.  

[00:38:49] Unknown:

Yeah. So I think, just reading down the article, it all stems from the judge ordering   Twitter to block a lot of supporters that are linked to the   former right wing opposition.   So, again, no shock, but it's all political.   Now Musk and Co have told them to go and fuck themselves, and then the judge, you know, have have up the ante and said, okay. See you.   Not good. But, again, you know, we've been very much or I've been waxing lyrical about Nostra and the importance of it. Like, you know, here we go. Maybe this is the impetus for an influx of an entire country. Yeah. It's,  

[00:39:25] Unknown:

not great. Not surprising.  

[00:39:27] Unknown:

No. Speaking of censorship,   the chat control   regulations   are rearing their ugly head again in the EU. There's been word that the powers that be are gonna start working on this as of last week. Once again, just a quick recap is that it it failed to reach the, required vote level a couple of months ago, so they pulled it.   And they are now starting work again presumably to to drum up more support so that they can get over the, I believe, it's 65%   support level to bring this into action. And if it is brought into action, then I think it goes live in,   out by December 12th or 13th, 2024 is the warning. So   could be as soon as this year where they leverage laws to be able to decrypt your,   encrypted chats. I believe they do have a watered down proposal, which isn't as egregious as it once was. Mhmm. But for me, the way I understand it that this is this is a binary thing. You either let people have encrypted comms or you don't. Well, you don't. Yeah. Like, it's it's a it's a zero one choice. So  

[00:40:30] Unknown:

is the pressure being put on   citizens   or   companies? Because, I mean, obviously, it's it's gonna continue sliding   this way, but, like, I just wonder,   is this pressure that's gonna be put on   signal   and, like, all the other encrypted apps, or is it gonna be on the individual? Because if it's on the individual, presumably things like   Simplex   make this not possible for them because   they couldn't have the back door?  

[00:41:02] Unknown:

Yeah. So my   if I was a betting man, they'll probably take a 2 pronged approach.   The first one will be that they'll pressure   regulated entities, I. E. Simplex and companies that have this feature that is   you know, would become illegal or against the law if this regulation is passed. So they'll pressure them first because, you know, it's a centralized easy target, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once they cut all those heads off and they believe that they've kind of   stopped the production   or or or proliferation   of these types of apps, that's when they'll move to the individuals then because that's a much more difficult thing to police and to control.  



[00:41:40] Unknown:

Serious question.   Where do you think   is gonna be the place   that is free the longest?   Because   my assumption is   EU and UK and all of this area that we're living in, they will move in lockstep. And if it's not 2024, it'll be 2025,   2026,   2027,   or 2028. Like, it's it's not like they're gonna just see the error of their ways and go, oh, we're gonna stop being cunts today. They'll continue.   And if that's the case,   where the fuck do people who care about freedom and privacy go other than   online   using open source technology   and everything else? Like, if you actually want to live a free life   in person   in your human flesh meat body,   where would be your guess?  



[00:42:31] Unknown:

Honestly,   I don't know.   That I may be may be somewhere in South America. Obviously, not Brazil.   I would say probably   just somewhere rural, like, away from the big cities because   even now, like, obviously, there's there's loads of laws in every single country that mandate what you can and can't do, you know, across your whole life.   But in reality, the more rural you are, like, the more shit you can get away with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. You know what I mean? And I'm sure that that's gonna continue to be true irrespective of what country you're in. Yes. There's gonna be a spectrum of, okay. Well, we know that at,   in in France, for say, just just as as an example. They put more resources into, you know, spreading the catchment area and catching people miles away from the big cities   versus somewhere like Norway where they just don't plow resources into that or something. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just using examples here. I think that's gonna continue to be true, and it's just a case of   finding the right balance of living far enough away from all the the cities versus being close enough to to all of the amenities that you need to be able to live your life. And, obviously, that looks different for, for different families because of, you know, your personal situations and stuff. I think the biggest superpower most people are going to have, at least in the short term is   being nimble and being able to move and play that arbitrage.  

But, you know, speaking from personally, you know, as you get older, your family ties tend to get deeper and deeper rooted and and that ability to just be nimble and move,   you know, quickly trends towards 0.  

[00:43:59] Unknown:

Yeah. It's,   when all the COVID stuff was happening, when we got extremely close to having mandated   vaccines and all the other crazy shit that was happening.   And I had self banked on talking about it because, obviously, he's a doctor. He was about to lose his job, and they're at the very, very last minute pulled back on it. But he was leaving,   and the line that me and my missus had drawn in the sand was,   if it becomes mandated, we're gone. We're not accepting that. At that point, like, before kids,   it wasn't really a massive   issue. We were like, yeah. We'll just do it. Everything   that we had that really mattered could be put in a shipping container,   and we were like, fuck this shit. If this is what the UK is gonna be, we're gone. But now, like, yeah, it's it is different once you have kids and everything else. It's like,   it's a very different   experience, the idea of moving.  

Maybe it's me being pessimistic,   but the idea of, like, moving into the countryside   is a realistic one. The idea of actually fighting against   this move   to take away freedoms.   The only thing you can do is just take control of the things that you personally can take control of, whether that's using open source software,   learning how to use the tools,   learning personal survival stuff,   becoming more self sufficient in whatever way you can,   learning to shut the fuck up about things, and just keep things to yourself.   Just all these sorts of things, that's where I'm like, okay. That's where you should put your   effort, but I have practically 0%   chance on   governments moving in the opposite direction.  



[00:45:39] Unknown:

I think that's a safe bet.   Next thing I wanted to draw attention to is for those of you that like to get your nerd on, particularly around Bitcoin development.   Peter Todd,   has released a soft fork slash covenant kind of dependent   layer 2 review,   which is a great kind of, I wanna say, high level summary, you know, 5,000 mile view of all of the different stuff that you probably hear, like BitVM,   CTV,   LN symmetry, ARC, blah blah blah, all that sort of stuff that's kind of been proposed and argued about on Twitter for the past 18 months. It gives a great summary of all of those. So if you're kind of that way inclined and you wanna kind of get a good summary of that, then you can have a read of this. And if you don't wanna read it, mister Guy Swan has done an audio version as well. So you can be a lazy lazy bugger like me and just listen to it while you walk the dog instead of sitting there reading. But, yeah, if you wanna get your note on, check that one out. I might actually do that. I feel like I'm very behind in all that kind of I feel like I've switched  

[00:46:37] Unknown:

off to a lot of, like, proposals and things because I'm just like, ah, just when it gets a bit closest to the time, like, when it matters, I'll pay attention, which is probably not the best approach. So I I might actually have a listen to that. I definitely won't be reading it, but I'll have a listen to Guy Swan. Yep. There has been a vulnerability  

[00:46:54] Unknown:

announced about older YubiKeys,   that are vulnerable to sophisticated cloning attacks.   A cryptographic flaw in the YubiKey 5, a popular FIDO based hardware token, makes it vulnerable to cloning if an attacker gets temporary physical access, researches revealed last week.   Okay. So Yupikeys are, like I say, like I said in the the little blurb there, are kinda like these these hardware security keys that you can use to kind of,   secure access to your various accounts online. They come in different shapes and sizes with marginal different features like fingerprints,   authority, and things like that. The general gist is it's something that you have in addition to something that you know, like a password, to secure access to your online accounts. And it looks like one of them, the secure element on one of them, has been found to have a vulnerability.  

The attack requires an $11,000   equipment and advanced electrical and cryptographic knowledge, like limiting,   likely limiting it to nation states and similar entities in targeted scenarios.   The risk of widespread attacks is extremely low as is always the case with the secure element based attacks. Like, it's not something that your average criminal is gonna do in the street, but just something I wanted to raise awareness of because I know, you know, we have some slightly more advanced users that probably use this sort of stuff. They need physical access?   Absolutely. Yes.  



[00:48:12] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:48:14] Unknown:

Stop giving people physical access to things that matter. Here's a quote actually. It's a great summary. An attacker could exploit this issue as part of a sophisticated and targeted targeted attack to recover affected private keys. The attacker would need physical possession of the YubiKey,   knowledge of the accounts that they want to target, and the specialized equipment to perform the necessary attack. Depending on the use case, the attacker may also require additional knowledge, including username, PIN, account password, or authentication  

[00:48:41] Unknown:

kit. Okay.  

[00:48:43] Unknown:

So don't wanna ring too many you know, concern too many people. Like, as always, this is a very,   niche attack, but something that is worth knowing about. I've got one of those, which I've started using and then just just like, oh, I can't be arsed for this shit. Exactly the same. I've got one in my drawer that's got used, like, twice.  

[00:49:02] Unknown:

It's a good idea in theory.  

[00:49:04] Unknown:

Yeah. For me, I don't know. I just think 2 FA apps are are enough these days. Okay. With that said, I'm not like a on the edge journalist. Data man.   Well, yeah, not the Google version. I use,   a a Aegis or however you say it. Aegis?  

[00:49:19] Unknown:

Aegis. Yeah. Isn't that what the Rose Bowl got renamed to? The Aegis. But isn't it an energy company, Aegis?  

[00:49:25] Unknown:

No idea.  

[00:49:26] Unknown:

Pretty sure. AEGIS  

[00:49:28] Unknown:

Authenticator   Okay. Is what I use. Quick update on the samurai stuff. The case, they were due to have a hearing, I believe, on September 10th tomorrow, but that has now been pushed back till September   17th, which is,   a week on Tuesday.   So, obviously, as in when we get the court hearings from that, we'll share that with the, with the listeners. But, best of luck to the guys. Hope it all goes well.  

[00:49:57] Unknown:

Yeah.   Been a very long time to be in that situation where you don't know what's happening. The stress for them   must be, must be massive. It's worse having to wait   for someone to decide your fate.   Just every day is gonna be stressful for them. So, yeah, sending love out to everyone affected. It's, it's a shit situation, but hopefully, it comes to a close soon.  

[00:50:22] Unknown:

Yep. Another   weekly or biweekly, fortnightly, twice monthly reminder. P2prights.org   if you wanna go and donate to the legal fund.  

[00:50:31] Unknown:

Yes. Oh, and before we move on, anyone who has ordered   the free samurai   hoodies and t shirts, we we ran out of stock.   They are being   printed as we speak. So anyone who's been waiting for them, don't worry. Your stats are safe. Your hoodies and t shirts are being printed, and those stats are going on to help free samurai.  

[00:50:53] Unknown:

Love to hear it. Alright. Should we finish off the boost? Yes.   Mister mister boosted with 9,999   sats.   RIPBMM.  

[00:51:02] Unknown:

Yeah. A little bit sad that really, isn't it, in a way? Yeah. Indeed. But,  

[00:51:07] Unknown:

it didn't kinda die, did it? It's just been reincarnated.  

[00:51:10] Unknown:

Reborn. Now it's twice as good. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Oh, nice. Beautiful beast.   Barn miner.   Noster is the gay   dirty dick of Dorsey.   Note from editor,   boob boost.   Do you get the reference? Yes. I do. Oh, okay. 8008.   Yeah. Well, thanks, Barmina.  

[00:51:35] Unknown:

Another,   repeat   booster, mister ape Mithrandir   boosted with 7,777   sats. Max, thanks for selling your Bitcoin and guaranteeing the biggest bull imaginable.   Your sacrifice is appreciated.  

[00:51:50] Unknown:

It hasn't happened yet, mate. Yeah. Don't hold your breath. I did expect that that was gonna happen. We shall see. Either way, I'm happy. I'm a much happier human being than I was a couple of months ago, so it was worth it.   Shadrach.   If anyone can make this work, it's Max. We're here for you. Side note, I haven't listened to RHR since Nashville and was thinking last night I need a new technical news show that is not PodConf captured.   Okay? Well, I hope we can do that for you, mate. It's not me, though. Most of this comes down to the rest of the team who put in   a huge amount of work to make this what it is, but I appreciate   the kind words.  



[00:52:31] Unknown:

Pies boosted from Breeze with 5,000 sats, and he just said, yo.  

[00:52:37] Unknown:

Marcellus,   5000 sats. Wish you all the best this new period in your life. Cheers. Thank you, mate.  

[00:52:44] Unknown:

Dave Smith, boosting with 5,000 sats with just a smiley face. Bubba,  

[00:52:49] Unknown:

freedom of speech equals   approved words. Congrats, and good luck, Max. Q, thanks again for all your handholding of this old man on his founder's edition.   Biweekly,   that's not a sexual preference. Right?   No, Bubba. It's not I speak for myself, at least. I'm not sure about you. Thanks for your sats and your kind words.  

[00:53:11] Unknown:

Wartime boosted via Nosta, 3,133   sats. Good show. Looking forward to more sweet, sexy tones of Max and the gang.  

[00:53:20] Unknown:

Yeah. That's right.   Chad Farrow.   Names don't matter. Just keep q and a in the art so I know which show it is.   Oh, okay. Yeah. I like how we do that. People know what they're getting.  

[00:53:34] Unknown:

Chad Farrow boosted again. 3,333   sets. Said let's go.  

[00:53:39] Unknown:

Chad Farrow again. 3,333   sets.   You guys are pulling a Peter McCormack.  

[00:53:46] Unknown:

Oh, weird. Fucking Yeah. I I I knew that would offend you.   I It would. It does. It has.   At at first, I wasn't sure   what he was talking about, but Pete McCormack has recently   sunsetted what Bitcoin did, and he's changing   it to be a more broad podcast. I think he's going for for Rogan   type thing. So he's rebranded. So I think that's what Chadfar was talking about. So,  

[00:54:11] Unknown:

okay. That's fine.  

[00:54:14] Unknown:

I I I could then scramble in for the sound world to get that one.  

[00:54:19] Unknown:

Okay. Alright. Fair enough.   Very offended, but fair enough. Chad Farrow again.   2222   is indeed called a row of ducks. Quack, quack, quack, quack.  

[00:54:31] Unknown:

I think you should read the next one in the voice, by the way. Oh, fucking hell. I can't do the voice.  

[00:54:38] Unknown:

No. I can't do the voice in my thing.   By the way,   I maybe I'll just zap   Nosta and Pub that I'm not reading.   Oh.   Until you come over to play Max smiley face. Yeah. I'm gonna go and visit Soluxe soon.  

[00:54:53] Unknown:

Soluxe again. 2,121   starts. I didn't boost the last episode because I didn't want to get my rolling ass   all over Max's face.   No. I was traveling and listening while driving 1,000 kilometers overnight, and I completely forgot to boost later.   Mia Culpa.  

[00:55:10] Unknown:

He did 1,000   kilometers in 1 night.  

[00:55:14] Unknown:

Yeah. I'd love to know what car he's got. Yeah. I would love to know. I think he's flying. That's what I think he's doing. Well, he said driving. Kilometers. Well, driving 1,000 kilometers.  

[00:55:23] Unknown:

What's that?   650 miles? UK, basically. Yeah. It is. Yeah. I did I drove up to Inverness   recently, and that was about that sort of   rough   roughly that.   Well, fair play. Obviously, has his right foot down hard.   Rev Huddl.   Join me for the 1st South Bend   IN meetup,   Thursday, September   5th   at 6:30 PM EST.  

[00:55:51] Unknown:

Which was 4 days ago.  

[00:55:53] Unknown:

Okay. Well,   I'm sure it was very good,   and I presume they're doing more.   So   we'll read the next one, Rev Huddle. I think I might have done this on the last episode anyway. I think we might have read this, which went live   today. So we also missed that one. Fuck.   Well, Rev Huddl, thank you for your sats. And if anyone is interested   in those meetups, maybe reach out to him. Maybe we'll talk about it on the next   PMM as well. Sweet.  

[00:56:26] Unknown:

Pies boosted by breeze, 2,100   sats. Yo. What up, my brethren? Fountain is unusable and completely broken for me, so I'm back to breeze.  

[00:56:36] Unknown:

Fair enough.   Pies again.   Beers, mushroom, mushroom.  

[00:56:40] Unknown:

What about the rest?  

[00:56:42] Unknown:

Should we split them? Do do them at the end? Or Yeah. No. No pies. It's beers, mushroom, mushroom, cigarette, strong-arm,   fist bump. I don't see that. I don't have that. Oh, okay. I just have tears, mushroom, mushroom.  

[00:56:53] Unknown:

Well, I see them all, Pies. I see all of your smileys, and I just read them. This is the the final one. This is censorship. What's happening? Why is this happening? I don't know. Let's blink Jordan.  

[00:57:03] Unknown:

That fucking sneaky bastard.  

[00:57:06] Unknown:

Blizzer with 2 fast stats says, I hope the life move works out.  

[00:57:11] Unknown:

Thank you, mate.   Vague. Ever since I was fired from my first job for stealing office supplies,   ungovernable   misfits has been my sole source of joy.  

[00:57:26] Unknown:

Having worked in an office job and stole lots of office supplies.   I think mind mind you, who doesn't work in an office and steal supplies? That's it's like kinda like a perk of the job, isn't it really? I don't think I've ever stolen office supplies.   Really? Yeah. I've never worked in an office though. So fair enough. If I did though, I probably would. I'm pretty sure in every office worker's home, there's like a drawer full of like staples and shit that you're never gonna use. But you've gotta do it. Yeah. Because it's like, are you keeping me here for 9 hours a day on minimum wage? Like, yeah. Of course. I'm gonna steal your staples.   FOMO Medtronic boosted with an exclamation mark, and they did that twice. Thank you for both boosts.  



[00:58:07] Unknown:

Bond miner.   Gay flag. Gay flag. Gay flag. Happy gay face,   smiley face, hot dog, eggplant.   He's actually Britain, innit? He obviously doesn't even know how to do these emojis.   He's a miserable bastard, isn't he? He fucking hates lightning.   He hates Noster.   What else does he hate? Oh, he hates,   he hates bitmain,   shitmain man, fucking shitmain. You must be boss like Bartminder to keep us honest, though. We do. We love you, Bartminder. And your little olive oil hooves.  

[00:58:43] Unknown:

Rot Elephant,   boosted a 1,000 stats from Breeze with no comment.   E zed or e zed? Let's fucking go. Closed network, boosted a 1,000 stats on Nosta, said love the new name.  

[00:58:54] Unknown:

Yes. Yes.   That's the first person who said they like the new the new name. That's nice to hear.   Chad Farrow again.   Q and a, thanks for the fountain Nosta breakdown and providing actionable feedback   on the Nosta integration   and not just fanboying over it since it has Nosta now.  

[00:59:13] Unknown:

That's what we do. Brother Abel,   1,000 sats on Nosta. Proud of you for being able to leave the Fiat Minds Max. The work Jordan Crown q and a and John put in is incredible. Keep up the great work, my brothers in Christ, and God bless. I love brother April. Thank you, mate. And, yeah, thank you to Jordan and Crown and John and you, mate, because,  

[00:59:33] Unknown:

this would not be possible otherwise. No chance. And there's no way that everything will be done to the quality it is now. So appreciate you all. Anonymous.   1,000 sats.   I don't know if this is prayer or hand clap, like a high five. Either one. A prayer or a high five with a coffee. Brother Abel again, a prayer, and then like a little cross thing, and then hash latte,   a heart.  

[00:59:59] Unknown:

Bitcoin boomer on Nosta, 500 sats,   said something different.  

[01:00:03] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:00:04] Unknown:

War time, 420   sats with 3 laughing faces. Time,   375   sats.   Twice a week, I heard. That's a lot of work. Humbly suggest you lay off the software updates though. Very wide topic and many other channels have good and or specialist updates, but give it a go.   I can boost the feed a couple of times a week. I reckon others will also support you value for value.   Appreciate the feedback. And, yeah, we   already do curate the software updates to stuff that kind of interests us. We don't really talk about,   like, I don't know, as an example, you know, the latest Coinbase feature or the latest eCash wallet or anything like that. But, yeah, I will be making a a conscious effort to keep these, you know, as as short, concise as possible, but I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate the feedback too. But, yeah, I think it's pretty concise, and and it's always stuff that either we use or listeners use. It's kind of, like, relevant to the Freedom Open Source sort of movement. So I think what we cover is pretty good, but  

[01:01:05] Unknown:

feedback is appreciated.   Mister mister, no message.   Bon,   nosta fountain test 1. This working now? Question mark.   Yes. It was. We just got it.   Weird robot.   Weirdo rope. Weird weird robot.   Sixty sats a minute. Thank you, mate.   And Oscar Merry, 50 sats a minute.   And John   Salbeaks,   50 sats a minute.   Appreciate all the people streaming. That's very, very kind. Yeah. That's very cool. Very cool indeed.  

[01:01:36] Unknown:

Shout out to Weird Robot as well. We didn't get to cross paths. Who's that you?   Nope. It's absolutely not me. And if you wanna verify,   we're the robot. It's been on our HR before, and you can hear his voice. So, it's definitely not me. But, yeah, him and I go way back for reasons that, you know, I won't talk about publicly, but, I hope you're doing well, my brother.   Then we've got some the first ever Monero   boosts max.   Do you wanna talk about   how and where people do this? Because this is a new one on me. Yeah. This is  

[01:02:07] Unknown:

thanks to Jordan.   He set up this XMR   chat   service   where,   basically, the same as boosting, but using Monero,   people send us messages   and send us Monero,   which is really fucking cool. They go straight to our noncassodial   wallet. It's done   on chain using Monero.   It comes with the message. It seems to work really, really nicely. So I don't know how you did it, Jordan, but thank you for setting this up. Previously, we had the option where people could just message me,   ask for an address, and then they'd send me a message. But what was happening is, because I'm a fucking idiot, I was then forgetting to actually read the messages.   One of them, I'm gonna do today.  

But, yeah, we had one from opt out   with   0.115.   Dc786   is a homo.   He's also a legend, though. He is a legend. He's definitely a homo, but he's he's a great one, isn't he? He's one of the best. Yeah.   Fiat Demise,   0.006.   Glad you're on XMR chat.   Free Ross   and free Pavel. A Fiat demise. Is that why you're laughing?   Yep. You can't. I was like, why is he laughing? Is it because the message is gonna be funny? Because I hadn't read that bit yet. I was like, the message wasn't funny. It was a good message, but not a funny one. And I'm like,   theoptimize.  

Fuck you. You read the next one if you come.  

[01:03:41] Unknown:

Wild child boosted 0.124.   XMR   says, I'm a wild child. Come and love me. I want you. Ungovernable misfits is the podcast because I love what you do. Heart emoji and then the peace, not peace.   What do you call that? Where you got your inbox and your really? Hang loose? Is that what it's called? Yeah. I have to tell I have to remind John every single episode.  

[01:04:03] Unknown:

Hang loose. It's an old surfer thing, isn't it? Oh, I see.  

[01:04:07] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:04:08] Unknown:

Sixty boosts, mate. 60. But oh, we got one more as well. Again, using Monero,   this was the one I forgot to read, I think, from Carter   XMR.   A very I'm not gonna say the amount,   but it was a very, very generous   what do we call them? We're not gonna call them boosts, are we?   What would we call a Monero?   Because it's not done in Monero chat. We'll call them XMR chats that come through there.   A p two p XMR   transaction with a message attached. We'll work on the name.   He says,   along with his Monero,   cheers to all the ungovernable misfits.   Free   samurai. Free t dev.  

Support FOSS.   And remember what we're here for.   I'm gonna read that again   because   I hadn't read it previously   and it's a very important message.   Cheers to all the ungovernable misfits.   Free samurai,   free t dev,   support fos,   and remember   what we're here for.   Important message there. And thank you, Carter XMR.  

[01:05:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Great message. And thank you to everybody for your support. It really does, help support the show and keep Max, off the breadline.   Right? Updates and releases?   Yes. Passport firmware   2.3.2   is now in public beta. Although, by the time that this is released, it will almost certainly be available as a main download.   The, three headlines here. I'll start with the smallest one. We've added connection   flow for fully noted.   We are now also support message signing via QR codes.   Best way to do that is, in conjunction with Sparrow currently.   And then the headline for this release is ephemeral seed support or is what most of the Twittersphere is dubbing   seed signer functionality, which may be cheaper. Yeah.  

I've seen that. And, the the seed signer guys are taking a victory lap on that because, yeah, it's quite a big thing that, you know, they've come very grassroots and with this new kind of architecture and then all the main kind of hardware wallet companies are are, you know, implementing the same sort of thing. So hats off to them for, you know, leading the the charge on that one. So the headline here with, ephemeral seed support is that you can kind of use temporary seeds in 3 different ways with Passport now. Okay. The first one being   you can have a master seed saved permanently to the device like you would typically use it. Yes. And then you can,   temporarily   load in a secondary seed that is saved on the device   only for as long as it's powered on or you go into the menu and then say, forget this seed.  

You can import that temporary seed via all the usual methods. So type in in the seed words, scan in a QR code, and that will, like I say, will be saved probably saved as the wrong term. It will be in the device's memory for as long as the device is powered on or you remove it. So once you've loaded that temporary seed, the device works in the exact same way as it does normally. But, obviously, you will be able to sign and connect, do all the wallet connection flows with the the second OVC that's loaded in. So that's the first way that you can use it. The second way that you can use it is that you can load   from our BIP 80 5 key manager. Any of those child keys, you can load them temporarily and then continue all of the signing and connection flows from any of those child seeds.  



[01:07:33] Unknown:

Oh.  

[01:07:34] Unknown:

And then the third way you can do it is that if you never want the device to store a permanent seed ever, then you can just as you boot the device up and it's got no seed saved in it, instead of importing a seed permanently,   you can just say import this seed temporarily and then import the seed by typing in the words or scan in a QR code. And once again, that seed that's been temporarily imported will only be in the device memory for as long as the device is powered on or well, in this scenario, it is just until you turn the device off. So that when you turn it back on again, you'll go back to the seed create or import screen, and there's never anything saved onto onto the device. So you can very much choose your own journey here. You can have it fully ephemeral, or you can have a master seed like you normally would, and then just load in all of your other stuff temporarily and with a quick QR code scan. Or you can choose a hybrid mode where you, you know, you load. Let's say you wanna sign a transaction on behalf of your sister who's got one of your child keys from the key manager   rather than them having to go and buy themselves a hardware wallet because they didn't want the expenditure or they don't, you know, they just wanna trust you to manage this sort of stuff for them while they keep a backup, then you can just go into your key manager, load in, assist the key,   and it's active on your device just for the time that until you turn it off essentially.  



[01:08:45] Unknown:

Interesting.   So someone could use this in the same way   as SeedSiner where they might have one of these still plates with a QR   on there. Mhmm. They could just scan that QR. They could sign whatever they need to sign, and then it's gone again. And so presumably then,   somebody just with one passport   could also do their multisig   in this way. They could still sign even if they say generated a key on a seat signer and then have that on a plate,   and then they generated another key with another device and have that on a plate, And then they generated a 3rd key with the passport, which is actually stored locally on the device.   They could just have that one device,   assign the first one which is stored on the device,   and then do the ephemeral   scanning, the seed signer. What do you call it? The seed signer? It's we call it temporary seed mode. But what do they call it? The seed signer functionality?  

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go with that. The seed signer functionality, they can scan that, and you could sign, like, a multi sig with just one device. Absolutely. Yep.  

[01:09:51] Unknown:

That's really nice. I like that. Yep. If you're if you're happy and comfortable with where those other seats are stored and the mediums that you've got to access them, then, yeah, absolutely, you can achieve that. That's the cool part about this is that you can just choose your own journey. Like,  

[01:10:04] Unknown:

you can do go full seeds on a mode. You can choose a hybrid. Like, it's yeah. It's pretty cool. That is very cool. I have to say it's not for me in terms of, like, storing a seed that you need to access regularly   on steel   somewhere.   Because I always think, like,   if you need to like, if you store it on steel and it's   really long term cold storage and you have a hiding place that is fucking impossible to get to, even for yourself,   unless you absolutely have to, then I I can understand that, having it totally offline properly offline. But if it's something that you have to use   relatively regularly   to sign, then my assumption is it's not somewhere that is so secure   because it's accessible to you, which means that if anyone ever finds that, they just have it.  

Whereas if you have it on a device   like a passport,   if anyone ever finds that,   they still have to be very, very, very sophisticated   to get access. And even then, they might not. So it's not for me, but it's cool that the option is there. Agreed. Blixd Wallet version 7.0.0  

[01:11:20] Unknown:

is now available.   Improvements here are   major bug fixes,   syncing improvements,   and an addition of,   lightning box, which is kind of like an lnurl, presumably a paid service,   and a new implementation   of speed loader, which is enabled by default for all wallets.   I'm just gonna look to see what the hell speed loader is. Speed loader syncs the wallet channel database on startup. This is important for payment pathfinding, and we'll make sure you have an up to date database. So, yeah, it's just in sync, speed improvements.   The reason I wanted to mention this one is I just wanted to kind of highlight the fact that Blix will exist essentially. It's a kind   of less loved version, I guess, of, alternative to Phoenix and Zeus and stuff.  

Much less known for some reason. I'm not entirely sure why that is because it's been around for quite some time, which is evident by the fact it's on version 7. So, yeah, if you're looking for an alternative and you don't like Zeus or you don't like Phoenix and you wanna try something else or want some extra optionality,   give Blix the go. You can kind of, once again, choose your own journey there. You can manage your own channels. You can use the node the lightweight node in the in the phone, which I believe is an LND version.   So, again, you can choose your own journey, and it's quite feature rich. And I believe you can also manage on chain stuff in there as well.  

Cake Wallet, you'll like this one. We were talking about this last time. Version 4.19.5   has been released. They've improved the Bitcoin fee calculation.   They've also now defaulted to bit 39 style seats, whereas previously,   for some ungodly reason, it was Electrum style seats. And you can also   apply a Bitcoin passphrase  

[01:12:58] Unknown:

when you're creating a wallet and not just importing 1. Yes. Seth messaged me about that just, saying they'd implement it. Because we'd literally just talked about it on the last episode, hadn't we? I'd set one up and I couldn't see it. And then it was like, yeah. You can do it, but you have to import one from a previously created wallet. So good to see if they've done that. They move fast. They're not fucking around. Yeah. They release,  

[01:13:19] Unknown:

little and often, which is, I like to see. So hats off.   Nunchuk mobile apps, Android version 1.9.50   and iOS version 1.9.5   3 have shipped with improved coin collection settings,   refactored   sign inflow, and other book fixes and improvements.   Phoenix Android 2.3.7   has been introduced, and you can now have a custom PIN to lock the device.   Sorry. To lock the application, which can replace or can coexist with your typical screen lock that you would do to still unlock the phone, in the first place. They've also updated the iOS version, 2.3.3,   as brings in compatibility improvements for bolt 12 payments.  

And then we are onto some,   new releases that I wanted to shine a light on. First one is Anonster,   Clue's in the name that this is a Nostra related thing. Anonster   allows users send anonymous notes to the Nostra network without revealing their identity.   For each note submission, the app generates a brand new key pair, sends a note through select relays, and then securely burns the key pair, which I thought was pretty cool for you know, I could see this potentially having a use case in the future as it gets developed for, like, whistleblowers and things like that. That's exactly where my brain just went. Yeah. Yeah. So very, very,   much needed, especially in the days of censorship that we live in. So hats off to whoever it is that developed that. And hopefully that continues to get built out and become more kind of feature rich so that,   you know, we can continue to have, free speech without risk of getting yourself thrown in the gulag.  



[01:14:48] Unknown:

Be nice.  

[01:14:50] Unknown:

Jippi has been released. I probably butchered that name.   Jippi.art  

[01:14:55] Unknown:

I reckon that's that's correct.  

[01:14:57] Unknown:

Is, has been released. And this is a gamified social education app for beginners to earn and learn about Bitcoin with others. Like, the look of the UX and kind of the headline says it all really. It's a Bitcoin education   app that is kind of, offers in app incentives as well to kind of learn and earn as you go. Haven't tried it, but, it could be useful for, you know, if you wanna do some lazy orange peeling. Mhmm. This might be the one for you to just, you know, tell people to download this app and go through it. Is that the one I shared with you the other day? Or is that and that was an on chain thing? That was a different one that I failed to bring up on the list. But,   once we get to the end of the list, I'll go and grab it because it is worth talking about. Okay. I was torn on whether to include this one in the in the list for reasons that will become clear in a minute, but I feel like it's import potentially important enough, that we should talk about it irrespective of the the drawback that I'll mention in a minute.  

NIM VPN   is first commercially available VPN on a decentralized mixed net. So a lot of buzzwords and bullshit bingo there, which is what makes me a little bit nervous about it. But,   the public beta is now available for people to test for free. Basically, it's a VPN that runs on a decentralized mix net. Let me get some here we go. NIM's VPN's anonymous mode uses the NIM mix net to make traffic untraceable by routing it through 5 independent servers. Key strategies include data fragmentation.   So they break up the data into fixed sizes and identically   encrypted packets.  

They cover traffic by sending dummy packets alongside the real data. They intermix packets from different users, and then they add in timing delays.   These techniques create network noise, confusing data surveillance, and offer impeding AI tracking by NetFlow.   Say you're missing the AI password Exactly. Blockchain?   Well, mix net, so close enough. Okay. Aside from the bullshit bingo, the main reason I'm a little bit   wary of this   is that   they released it alongside a token.   Now I believe   that you don't need the token to use   the Mixnet,   which essentially already tells you that the token is a complete shitcoin. And,   oh, here we go. Disclaimer. The NIM project launched with its own token, though Mixnet VPN testers don't need to touch it. Otherwise, the implementation appears notable and something we should cover. Yeah. So the the guys at No Bullshit Bitcoin share my kind of,   reluctance to kind of talk about this, but it does seem to have some good promise. And, again, it's just something that I wanted to shine a light on to, you know, make people aware of and maybe go and test it out. You don't need to touch the token,   at least at the moment. Okay.  

The unanswered question I have here is how does this differ from something like Tor?  

[01:17:44] Unknown:

Maybe it's more reliable   somehow.  

[01:17:46] Unknown:

I don't know. Yeah. Possibly. It could be a speed thing.   Yeah. Maybe I'll, I'll come back in 2 weeks and have an answer to that one. Okay.   Live Wallet,   has been released,   and it's currently on version 0.7.   Now Live Wallet appears to be a pretty cool   desktop only   I believe it's desktop only? Application   that basically you can import your C to or you can import your Xpob to or connect your hardware wallet to. It will obviously bring up all of your UTXOs.   And it allows you to enter into different types of spending scenarios, such as different   fee rates, Bitcoin prices, different combinations of how many UTXOs you're gonna spend on the input   side, how many you're gonna create on the output side,   such that you can see the total kind of fee percentage of any given combination of all those parameters I just mentioned. So it can allow you to kind of future proof   your wallet or your UTXOs in your wallet such that you don't get shafted in the future by you know, I'll use it as a simple example. If you've got loads of small UTXOs and then the fee rate goes up to consistently to, like, 2, 3000   sats per vBite, then those really small UTXOs essentially become instantly unspendable because it would cost more to include them into a transaction than the value of the UTXO itself. Now that can be a difficult concept to gain, visualize, and to understand properly. The whole point here is that you can see that it's all color coded and stuff. And there's a little slider for the fees and stuff, and you can move it up and down. And then everything goes green, red, amber based on the parameters. And you can see, okay, shit. That UTX code is probably a bit small because fee rate, 250 sets per byte, then I'm gonna lose 90% of the value of that UTXO to fees alone as an example. So pretty cool. I haven't tested it. I've watched a couple of videos on it. It looks very cool, very intuitive, and could be a good tool to have in your arsenal in terms of being able to construct the makeup of your wallet so that you're future proofed for any given types of fee rates. Very cool. And that's called, I think I got a website. Let me see. Oh, it'll be in the show notes anyway. Don't get hooked.  

Cool. Is that all the updates? That's it for the updates, my friend.  

[01:19:58] Unknown:

Should we check our new voice mail? I had a voice mail set up for   listeners with questions   or   devs or anyone who wants to get in contact with us for the show because we're changing and,   upgrading everything. So should we check that? Let's do it.   This is Max and q from The Bitcoin Brief.   Sorry we can't answer right now. I'm busy editing, and q is in the gym training his calves. So please leave us a message after the tone.  

[01:20:35] Unknown:

We welcome topic suggestions,   show feedback, and questions on anything Freedom Tech related. Please direct all number go up queries and politician simping to a nearby Twitter influencer.   To listen to your messages for new messages,   press 1. 1st new message.  

[01:20:56] Unknown:

Hi. This is Peter Schiff. I have a question on silent payments with Bitcoin. How are these different to BIP 47 paying in payments? I mean, what you Bitcoin believers don't seem to grasp is you can't melt down these transactions and make solid gold cufflinks out of them. There is no intrinsic value, and it is going to fail because Message deleted.  

[01:21:15] Unknown:

For next message, press 2.  

[01:21:22] Unknown:

Thank you, Max. Solak here. I was reading the article shared by q and a,   on Noster,   with some classical recommendations as, don't use even amounts,   because the change will be uneven and clear and don't reuse addresses.   But reading that, I was wondering if, what if we put that upside down?   If I pay, for example, a fixed amount from a bigger UTXO I have and split the rest in, the same amount   or divide by the same amount and send those to other addresses. I'm not gonna tell you if those addresses are mine or if I send it to somebody else. But what? The leftover, the remainder of the division, I would send to a reusable address that's agreed upon to be a donation between me and several other Bitcoiners, for example.   That can be a direct donation address   or I trust the guys and one of them has the   the keys to to the to the address we use.  

Did I now, by doing that, increase   or decrease my privacy set of that t u t x o I'm I'm using   or did I just make a fool out of myself? Thank you very much guys.   Keep on going. Free samurai.  

[01:22:40] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:22:41] Unknown:

Nice of Peter Schiff to get in touch. Yeah. Fuck that guy. We've answered that question, Peter, so many times  

[01:22:48] Unknown:

on this show, that specific question. You just need to go back and actually   listen to what we've said. I can't be bothered to go into that one. Fuck you and your stupid little cufflinks.  

[01:23:01] Unknown:

Thank you to Sol X for our first voice mail. Before I go into attempting to answer that because I was a little bit confused, not gonna lie,   how how do people leave these voice mails? Like, I if people who wanna get in touch, what do they need to do?  

[01:23:15] Unknown:

You can send me a voice mail sending it directly to my Telegram.   You can ping it in one of our groups and just at me or at you. We'll put it in there. You can send   a m p 3 that you record, and you can send that any way you want to us via email or, well, literally, any way you want. Just get in contact. And if you have a question or a software update or a message you wanna send,  

[01:23:42] Unknown:

you can do. Cool. Look forward to listen to those. Okay. So, I'm gonna have to go on how I interpreted Solak's question and maybe correct me if you have a different interpretation of it, Max. But,   what he's referring to is,   maybe something I've said or an article I've written about   spending habits and privacy.   The one he highlighted was spending round amounts   And the way that this type of spend is interpreted by chain analysis cooks is basically that the round amount spend is always the spend and never the change. Yes. Which is, in fairness, true. And that's because us humans are we have our weird ways, and we like to send round amounts because it gives us that warm fuzzy feeling. And Mhmm. Chain analysis obviously know this. And what that enables them to do then is, like, highlight that, okay. Output a is the spend. So we know that those funds are changing hands from a to b, or we can assume that that is the case. It's a pretty good assumption.   Yeah. And that anything remainder, any of the other outputs is the change. And that's going back to the original wallet, albeit to a new address so that we know that those funds are still under the control of whoever we think that the person is that owns those addresses.  

So what SolEx then suggested, I I think, is that okay. Well, when I'm doing that, why don't I create additional outputs that are the same amount   as the spend amount and send them to different addresses that I control or that some of my friends control. I didn't quite understand that bit, but I'll try and keep the analogy as simple as possible. He said, would that improve his privacy?   Yes. It can yes. It would. What what it would do is provide   multiple possible interpretations   of what's happening in the spend. So let's say that you're spending 1,000,000 SATs to max and there's 10,000,000 SATs in change. He's suggesting that, okay. Well, I get 10 of my own addresses and send the change in 1,000,000 SAT chunks to different addresses or to one address. Well, probably to different addresses would make much more sense. And what that would do is would provide multiple   interpretations.  

So if you just applied the random out heuristic, which these things are never applied exclusively. They either apply kind of in tandem with other assumptions or heuristics as well, is that all of the outputs look the same. So it's kind of a little bit like a coin join. So, yes, it would provide you with kind of, a little bit more obfuscation or multiple different interpretations   of what's happening in   the transaction.   But what you've gotta consider then is like the I always talk about the kind of holistic approach of of privacy and the fact that, okay. Great. Then you've got a good obfuscation from this transaction, but you've had to jump through some extra hoops and essentially create a batch transaction to your own wallet. What happens then when you now need to spend   some of those UTXOs that you created? You know, those 1,000,000 site UTXOs that you created, you need to spend some of those together. You gotta be very careful how you construct those future transactions as well, not to undo everything that you did in the first transaction.  

This used to be much easier with kind of the Stonewall algorithm that, Samara used to have because it kinda used to take care of all of the the nuances around that for you and only include certain inputs based on their previous history.   You can still do this with Spiro just by enabling the privacy button when you're creating a spend, and Spiro will take care of that for you. That's what that does. I've always wondered It's essentially a Stonewall. Yeah. Okay. Now stonewall is is a much more complex than the way I've just summarized it. What it will actually do is, create multiple additional outputs, one of which will be the same as the spend amount, whether it's a round amount or not. And then the other 2 will be what we call decoys.   Obviously, the people that develop this algorithm are far cleverer than I in terms of, like, the holistic approach. So rather than the manual method, I would say, that Sol likes to suggest in, I would say just lean on something like a spend algorithm, like the privacy button in Spiro to be able to use that. Or, obviously, in summary, if you're still running that because, you know, this is entirely client side. You don't need a remote server to be able to do that. So if you're still using Samura, then the default spend type is a stonewall, and your wallet will do all of those calculations for you. So I would try not to make it too complicated and lean on the the expertise that's been put into that kind of algorithm. Am I right in thinking that there's no  

[01:27:59] Unknown:

fee outside of the actual transaction fees that you'd pay to the miners   for the service?  

[01:28:06] Unknown:

Exactly. Yeah. It's evident to client side. It's just, adding some of your own UTXOs   to your transaction   to provide multiple   or to increase the the way in which the transaction can be interpreted because there's additional inputs and additional outputs so that it's not blatantly obvious that this one UTXO is being split into 2. 1 is a spend, and 1 is the change because there's always at least 4 outputs. That's actually probably gonna be the best way to do it then. But it does kinda make sense what he's asking is kind of, like, goes against what you're told. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The principle does.   However, you know, the there's kind of more elegant ways to do it that actually require the user   to take less steps, I. E. Just use the spend tool features. The only caveat being, it's not really applicable at the moment because fees are next to 1 sat per byte. But in high fee environments, and I'm talking very high, like upwards of a couple 100 sats per byte, then when you start adding in additional inputs and outputs   to any transaction just to increase the privacy of it, obviously, you're gonna have to pay for that because the transaction becomes larger in terms of bytes.  

And you're gonna have to pay for that, on chain footprint. So you're gonna it's gonna cost you much more. But again,   free to make free and average privacy.  

[01:29:20] Unknown:

Well, it it would cost you less to do the stone wall than it would to do what Solex has suggested here. Because he's saying, like, split it into 10 equal amounts.   Whereas this is gonna do 4   less transactions,   therefore less fees, but probably more privacy, so that would be the one to go for. One thing I always try to think about, if I am,   say, you have, like, a larger   UTXO   and you wanted to split it down while the fees are low,   you can do that with a ran very random amount so that the input and the output,   sorry, the change and the output are both   random numbers that aren't   correlated to a dollar amount   or,   like, a rounded amount on Bitcoin,   which in my head would make it more difficult for chain analysis to   assume what is the   output and what could be a spend. And so presumably, they'd put a question mark around it rather than, say, you had a million sats. If you send half a 1000000 sats somewhere, they're gonna go, okay. Well, the change is this. That's the change, and they've sent it somewhere. And either they've sent that to themselves or somebody else, but the changes come back to them. But if you did it as, like,   38942,   whatever, like, random thing, and then the change is also gonna be random,   that creates 2 question marks.  



[01:30:44] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right.   Yeah. Any anytime you can take steps where   you don't send random amounts, it will be, you know, a slight improvement in terms of it just kind of removes that initial assumption of, okay, it's blatantly obvious. I can see a random amount of 1,000,000 SaaS being sent here. So, yeah, if you're sending off to cold storage or anything like that, yeah, just,   pick an amount that you obviously, that will be predefined in your head. You'll be like, okay. Well, I wanna siphon off at a 1,000,000 sats from my lightning wallet to cold storage or something. Just like make it like 1,300,278   sats or something like that. Just an inanimate amount that's close to your goal, just to kind of kibosh that initial assumption that would be applied to the transaction if it was just around 1,000,000 sort of amounts.  



[01:31:29] Unknown:

I've always wondered something as well.   Are chain analysis doing things like   I paid for a service the other day. I won't say which service. I paid for a service,   and   I thought as I sent that transaction,   maybe I should send slightly more   to make it more difficult for chain analysis. And then I thought, no. I'm too tight to do that right now. And I also thought,   I wonder if those people who are sending that larger amount are doing it because it's a rounded amount, whereas what I was paying for wasn't a rounded amount. It was quite a random   amount. So I thought, would   Chainalysis   look across services that Bitcoiners   might use and pay for   and then correlate, oh, okay. That was that amount   in dollars at that time on that day, which would equate to that amount of sats minus the fees because that was the fee rate. And that means that they were paying for this service most probably.  

Would they be doing that,  

[01:32:33] Unknown:

or is that, like, a bit too far? I I don't think they're that clever yet, to be honest. Okay. I might be completely wrong, but I just don't think they're there yet. They go for the lowest hanging fruit, and that's clearly not not it. But if you're worried about that sort of stuff,   use lightning.  

[01:32:48] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which which is what I generally do, but not all services   do that. Of course. Yeah. You know what? I've also realized,   this may be a reasonable thing, and I'm I'm, like, oh, like, not understanding. But a lot of these services still use   very old address types,   and I wonder what the reason for that is. You don't get b c one. It's often 1, and you're like, hang on a minute. Like, is there a security   issue that you're worried about because   I'm not? Or, like, are you just really fucking behind the times?  

[01:33:20] Unknown:

I think Like, why Main yeah. I think mainly, like, some of these services,   they will have, like, rolled their own sort of Bitcoin checkout experience, and they would have custom coded it. And, obviously, it's quite   a big uplift for them to move to to change the address type. But, potentially, again, I'm just guessing here. Mhmm. So they're just like, you know what? Versus me spending a 100 dev hours to update us to Segwit or Taproot, I'm I'm happy to just continue with using our existing stuff that we know works. We've had it running for, like, 10 years. It's just the trade off they they make. Again, just guessing. I don't know. It seems weird to me. And, obviously, it's higher fees and all that kind of stuff. And Only for them. It's not higher fees for for, the sender. Well, this is what I mean. It's like, okay. So how hard is it to make the changes if you're saying, oh, it's a 100 dev hours? Which, like, if they're a large service   and each time it's less efficient for them. I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. It's just something I think about. We do have a couple of, questions. Oh, thank you once again, Solect, for your voice mail. Very cool. I would love to get loads more, different questions, especially if they're a little bit more on the complex side. It'd be great to get those in in voice format so that we don't have to listen to Schiff again. That's the kind of thing that is  

[01:34:34] Unknown:

explained much better via voice. Like, when I read it, I was like, what the fuck is this? And then I listened to it, and I was like, okay. Now I get what you're saying. And I like to think that we've answered that quite well. So happy with that. Okay. So a couple of text based questions before we sign off. Schrodinger  

[01:34:53] Unknown:

messaged this morning on Nosta. He said, when Monero integration into Passport and what will it look like? Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think there'll ever be an official Monero   Passport integration into the device that you see on the market today. The main reason for that is we're very tight on   firmware space. And to essentially make a an additional version of that just for Monero, we just wouldn't have the space on the on the device to be able to store that much extra data.   There is a community driven fork of   the software that obviously you could install using your own developer key. And obviously, we'd never prevent that at all. But because it's community driven, and not driven by the company, the progress has been very slow, and I think it may have even ground to a halt.  

So   that's kind of what we have in terms of an update on that side of things. I think it will be cool to do. Don't get me wrong. But in terms of, like, the focus for us internally,  

[01:35:49] Unknown:

we're just not at that point where we think it would be worthwhile to focus on doing Monero with the current device that you see on the market today. Yeah. Because I would imagine while Seth was with you, he if it was possible to do easily, he'd have been badgering you all because he fucking loves Monero. Oh, yeah. So I assume that if it was simple to do and possible that he would have probably got his way. But, yeah, sounds like maybe it's not that easy. Not with this device anyway. No. Okay. Last one. Rev HODL on Nosta, and this was accompanied by Boost. So thank you, sir. Tell me what you know about DLCs.  

[01:36:22] Unknown:

Could they be used to handle deposit slash refund mechanisms or to help create less gamable   review systems?   Oh, okay.   DLCs, discrete log contracts,   is essentially   a way of kind of doing trustless,   almost trustless kind of smart contracts on Bitcoin.   I believe they can also be done even done on the Lightning Network, but that's kind of a a future thing. The most simple way to describe a DLC is to explain one of the very, very basic use cases.   So, Max, you and I could enter a DLC, which is basically just a multisig wallet with a third party, where we could bet on the outcome of a on the flip of a coin.   I bet a 1000000 sats,   and I deposit a 1000000 sats into this wallet that it's gonna be heads. You take the opposite side of the bet to say it's gonna be tails. And then we have an independent   kinda third party,   also known as an oracle,   who's gonna be used as the publishing the outcome of the coin flip. The umpire. The umpire. Yeah. The coin is flipped. It lands on heads, and the oracle   confirms via a Bitcoin signature   that heads was the outcome. And in that signature, it releases all of the funds back to me. So I'm, a million sat up and you're a million sat down. Yep. That's a very, very, very simplified way of explaining it and how it works. There's a couple of things here to that's worth spelling   out. Number 1, the Oracle   these Oracles are built in such a way that obviously, an Oracle has gotta be for a specific purpose because they need to report on a real world   event, which is kind of this is kind of like an unsolved problem where it's called I think it is literally called the Oracle problem.  

Mhmm. Where you've got to incorporate real world data, in this example, the outcome of a coin flip, into a smart contract in a trustless manner.   What most of the early DLCs are doing is that the Oracle,   whilst, yes, it's reporting on a real world event, could be the outcome of a of a vote, an election, could be as simple as a coin flip. Whilst that is a real world event,   the Oracle itself   has no idea that   you and I are referencing that Oracle for the result of our coin flip. So it's kind of, like, blinded in a way. And the whole point of that is that the Oracle can't be biased.   Now the I think the Oracle problem states that, okay. Well, yes. You and I are doing a coin flip, and we're trusting this Oracle, but you could be the one running the Oracle. So if the if the coin flip doesn't go your way and you're the Oracle, you know the Oracle, and you can say, hey. I got it wrong, but, you know, if you say that it was a tails instead of a heads, I'll give you 50% of the way. Exactly. So to combat that, again, I believe there are plans. I got this could already be live. I'm not sure. Where you can use, like, an aggregate of multiple oracles,   assuming that you've got multiple oracles to   report on those same events, real world event. So you can kind of mitigate it in such a way that you are minimizing the trust, especially with with a single oracle. And, obviously, the larger the event, I, you know, the result of the latest, I don't know, Manchester United Football match, you can it's gonna be easy to get loads of oracles. And even if you get 10 and 2 of them are untrustworthy and they say it was 3 nil to Manchester United when really it was 1 nil to Liverpool, the fact that 8 of them said the truthful one, then you can just use a threshold of those to kind of report that back. Does that make sense so far? It does. And I I was taking it a step further. Could you not vet  

[01:39:54] Unknown:

the   source of the information   that goes to the oracles that make the decisions? For example, you could say, well,   they have to pull their data in from this website,   whatever it is, like BBC or some sports thing or whatever. Yes. You can. Yep. So you could do that. So you're not only having multiple   sources   that are feeding in this info, but you're also having multiple   Like sources of truth? Yeah. Oracles and sources of truth. Mhmm. Which would make it much more secure, but only on large events. Like, a coin flip is is a much more difficult thing because no one else in the world gives a fuck. Yes. And I think, again, no idea as to the progress of this, but there's also a way in which the Oracle  

[01:40:40] Unknown:

can put up, like, a bounty or a a bond   Mhmm. That if it's able to be proven cryptographically   that they gave the wrong answer comparative to 80% of other oracles reporting on the same thing,   then the people using that oracle will be able to steal whatever they've posted as a bond. It's a bit like Lightning does that. How you achieve that cryptographically,   I've got no fucking idea. But, again, that's what the clever people are here for. So that's, like, kinda like a high level as to what the street log contract are for.   Ref Hull says, could they could they be used to handle deposit refund mechanisms?  

Do you know what he means by that? Deposit  

[01:41:20] Unknown:

refund mechanisms.   I'm   guessing he means maybe, like, something,   say, in Bisc or something like that. If a trade doesn't go through, and then you've got your deposit that's being held, and does that get refunded? And is there a fee   or something like maybe something like that, or or just generally deposit and refunds in terms of just a normal purchase.   Or he could mean in terms of, like,   property   deposits   and I I I don't I don't know specifically   what he's talking about   there. To me, like, the only thing that I can see this really working on is, like, extremely   public   data.  

So, like, it wouldn't work so well on, like, a coin flip between the 2 of us. It wouldn't work so well on, like, smaller deals between one user and another where, like, the information isn't public to many, many people and corporations and everything else. But for something like   a huge news event, like a sports event or a political event or  

[01:42:29] Unknown:

something along those lines, I could see this being pretty fucking secure if it was set up in the right way. Yeah. I think the main thing is where you've got more than one potential outcome of a real world thing, then in theory, DLCs can be applied to it.   His other comment was, could it help create less gamable review systems?   Now I was trying to walk through how this would look in a DLC world. And I'm thinking like, okay. So if I go   to the Apple shop and buy an iPhone and then write a review of it,   where or how would I implement a DLC there to, I guess, the the emphasis here is that Apple wants to ensure that I'm a real customer first and foremost.  

Yeah. I'm struggling to apply the DLC   narrative to that kind of framework, but that could just be because I'm a nothing brain. But it's a good question. Made me think a lot actually, that one. Because DLCs as a concept have been   spoken about for, I wanna say, like, at least 5 years in the Bitcoin world.   They kind of had a couple of   applications   or early applications released around them, but, never seemed to take off,   as much as I thought. But again, perhaps that's because we were waiting for the Taproot upgrade to to make cryptography side of things much more simple. Because I I vaguely remember a conversation happening where it was possible with the old ECDSA, but it was, kind of a lot more Rube Goldberg machine ish   than in a Taproot world. So, obviously, we now live in that world, but, we're yet to see, you know, the really fancy  

[01:43:59] Unknown:

fancy applications that are built on top of that yet. I'll tell you what you need to do. You sprinkle in some AI. There we go. That will fix it. But, actually, seriously, it probably wouldn't be a bad shout if, like, one of the mechanisms could be that a search is done in, like, chat gbt or one of these things to ask it about an event,   and it would be pretty hard to   fake that response,   I'd imagine.   Mhmm. A certain amount of AIs that had to be searched   and also a certain amount of news feeds that had to be pulled in from, then,   yeah, it would work.  



[01:44:40] Unknown:

Yeah. Definitely. I mean, I I definitely see them as a net positive for the network, especially I could see this being huge in the betting world. Yeah. It's like the the basic application of it. Right? Where you've got like a a, you know, a result and then 2 or 2 or more opposing kind of potential results. Like, it's it's obvious that that would be having that enforced cryptographically on the Bitcoin network would be great. Well, unless you ask, Luke Dash, I'm sure he'd hate it. But  

[01:45:05] Unknown:

Yeah. You could do it. I mean, all of this stuff, I think, comes down to just having a nice interface because people fucking love betting. And on, like, silly little things that you wouldn't necessarily find in, like, your bet 365   or one of those, like, larger   betting shops, Yeah. You can bet on, like, the football or a horse or something, but can you bet on all the political shit that's going on? Or could you bet on a bit like spread betting on, like, the stock market or doing all these kind of things. If you can do that with Bitcoin   and if you could do it with lightning, meaning you could do, like, micro bets and you could make it quite fun and people could trust it, I could see that growing pretty quick.  

We've done almost 2 hours there, so   I think we've covered everything.   But, yeah, I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of the ungovernable misfits team and for everyone who's been sending in messages and boosts and all of the people who have sent me personal messages   in all the other platforms as well just encouraging this move. And it's been really, really, really nice to see people supporting me, so I appreciate it. And I'm gonna do everything I can to make Ungovernable Misfits   a one stop shop for all of your needs for staying free and staying out of the gulags.  

[01:46:25] Unknown:

Love to hear it. Onwards and upwards. Thanks for getting involved, guys. Free samurai. Free samurai.