Back on the Chain

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Fundamentals
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Jason
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READ THE FCKING BOOK!!^^

Intro: Back on the Train - Phish 09/13/25 Birmingham, AL
Alternate HD Video 04-18-24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cySKvPB62k

Backing Track and Outro: Phish Set 2 + Encore 12-01-25 Hershey, PA https://youtu.be/c-oM3nw4iNw?si=Q091CubXZ7-pVyhx&t=4332 

Other Mentions:
High Hash Rate Podcast: Golgi Apparatus with Fundamentals - HHR056  https://fountain.fm/episode/oP1HkfvAU5ULcj8BcElp 

In this emergency-level episode, we process a whirlwind 24–48 hours in Bitcoin and Phish world—and how they just physically converged. From Vanguard’s “capitulation” on Bitcoin ETFs to MicroStrategy chatter and a shifting market mood, we pivot to the bombshell: Phish announced a nine-show Sphere run that perfectly bookends the Bitcoin 2025 Conference in Las Vegas. We talk implications, logistics, and why this feels like the vision of Phish x Bitcoin finally materializing. I share the backstory of our show’s thesis—that Phish culture and Bitcoin have been intertwined since the beginning—and make the case for bringing Phish’s community-building lessons to Bitcoin’s sometimes overactive immune system. We also speak a new dream into existence: get Trey and Tom on a Bitcoin Conference panel to explore lyrical and cultural overlaps. We celebrate the 30-year anniversary of 12/01/1995 Hershey (the “mystical land of chocolate”)—a snowy, intimate night where a friend finally “got” Phish mid-Mike’s Groove and never looked back. We reminisce about ‘95 vs. ’97 contrasts, Ghost/Tweezer evolution, and Phish’s unparalleled refusal to “sell out”—how they beat the money printer and what Bitcoiners can learn from that integrity. With the Sphere dates now surrounding the conference, we’re calling for a Phish-themed event in Vegas and rallying the community to help make it happen. If we build it, maybe they will come.

[00:00:22] Unknown:

When I jumped off, I had a bucket full  

[00:00:45] Unknown:

Hey, hey, guess what?   We're back on the chain.  

[00:00:50] Unknown:

We are back on the chain.  

[00:00:52] Unknown:

It hasn't even been that long. It has not taken us not. It did not take us that long to get back on the chain. We've been doing this way more frequently.  

[00:01:02] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:01:03] Unknown:

Almost I'll call it an emergency  

[00:01:05] Unknown:

episode, except we plan to do this. Yeah. We we we plan to get together tonight, but the topics are emergency   level.  

[00:01:14] Unknown:

That's right.   The topics are definite I mean, dude,   what is going on in the world? The world has changed in the last   twenty four to forty eight hours. The world is completely   upside down.   This is a good thing. Just,   like, I'm out of control right now with hype.  

[00:01:33] Unknown:

How are you doing? I'm hyped too, man. And I and I have to agree with you that,   the last couple of days have been,   we talk about sinusoids   before earlier episodes.   I feel like we went to the trough.   Sinusoidal.  

[00:01:50] Unknown:

We went from Yeah. We're getting trough in, like  

[00:01:52] Unknown:

action. We we we went peak to trough in in, like or or trough to peak, I should say, in, like, thirty six hours.  

[00:01:59] Unknown:

We went from zero to two pi   in in a in a short time.  

[00:02:05] Unknown:

That's right. Natural log.  

[00:02:07] Unknown:

This isn't the math podcast. But you know what? Yeah. You guys you all know what we're saying.  

[00:02:12] Unknown:

Oh, I hope so. And if you're not if you're not aware of,   I don't know about you, Brian, but,   yesterday was, like, peak.   Like, I haven't seen the general   sentiment in Bitcoin as low as I did yesterday.  

[00:02:29] Unknown:

Oh, so nice. I loved it. Oh my god. I was at the John, the Bitcoin John.   You know, got to present my little my little piece on   It just so happened that there was such relevant   institutional   news.   Right? Like, I had I had this,   you know,   all the options,   this fucking J. B. Morgan,   structured note   that everyone misunderstood   and that was all, you know, I did I did good work around that and I'm glad to share it with my fellow   my fellow meet up mates.   Yes. We had, you know, and then we had hot off the press,   oh, we had that fucking micro strategy, everyone's butt hurt about them holding cash, And then right off the press, we had Vanguard capitulating.  

[00:03:19] Unknown:

Yep.   That was that was this morning. Right? The the Vanguard was was That was yesterday.  

[00:03:25] Unknown:

Oh, that was yesterday. Okay. What I mean, I think it went into effect yesterday too. I mean, Vanguard,   Capitulation is a hell of a drug. It's a great band name.  

[00:03:35] Unknown:

It's a great band name. It's a great band name.   We'll have to put that in a few minutes to   that. I know. I'm I'm serious. It's a great band name,   And we came up with it,   in New York City. Yeah.  

[00:03:50] Unknown:

Episode,   I'm gonna get it. Say episode 17.  

[00:03:53] Unknown:

17. Yeah.  

[00:03:55] Unknown:

I'm not sure exactly.   But   Capitulation was a band. We played a show in New York.   So, yeah, dude. We had this, like,   weird twenty four hour, like, peak of, like, insane news that just, like, cut   you know, the Vanguard capitulation,   you know, Vanguard is here   for anyone, everyone listening. Right? Vanguard's in our backyard.   They're the dumbest dumbest company that's, like, ever lived,   you know. And they had this insane embargo on the Bitcoin ETF not allowing their clients that, like, they were taking some moral stance or some I don't know. They wanted to just   be dead.  

They wanted to You're right.   They wanted to unalive their fucking business.  

[00:04:43] Unknown:

Yeah. They really do, have have fun staying poor apparently.  

[00:04:47] Unknown:

But I like, you know, so I run this meetup. Right? I run the meetup here in Phoenixville, which is   in   the foothills of Vanguard's   headquarters. And I always have these   visions.   Like, I have these vid I've had these visions in my head for, like, three years that, like,   some dude in the mail room is gonna come to our meetup. Somebody from Vanguard is gonna come to our meetup and just go ham, like and, you know, he's just gonna go and orange pill everybody. Like, you know, a guy in the mail room, he's, like, delivering mail to people and he's, like,   hey, dummy.  

Like, all these portfolio managers are like, hey, dummy. What are you doing today? You know?   And, like, I always had these visions that that would happen.   Yeah. And we would, like, orange bill the whole company because   these, you know, these underlings are coming to my meetup, and they're getting loaded up, just totally loaded up with, you know, signal to take back. Yeah. With, yeah, with alpha. Yeah.   It's kinda like, when they plugged the board, they gave the board the name, and they plugged them back into the board, and it destroyed the board.   Right. That's a Star Trek,   next next gen reference.  

But that that never happened. So, like, that, you know, my dream of infiltrating Vanguard via my meetup never happened. But,   I have to say it was pretty tasty to see   to see them just give up   and,   you know, really not get nothing for it. Just to totally give up and say, okay. We're done with this stupid   done. We're done.   And so that was like the capper   of yesterday.  

[00:06:21] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:06:22] Unknown:

This morning   I don't know, dude. This morning, it just felt like,   felt like more doom and gloom is coming. Right? Me too. Yep. 100%.   And then something   really exceptional happened.   Like, something absolutely that   like, whatever my Vanguard dream was,   what happened today was a billion times bigger   than the it was another dream I had. Right? It was rather hard to keep.  

[00:06:53] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:06:55] Unknown:

You know how I you know how I say, like,   we're getting less and less early every day?  

[00:07:02] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:07:04] Unknown:

Well, the time is here. The mission's clear.   It's later than we think.  

[00:07:10] Unknown:

You're dropping lyrics on me that lyrics that I don't know.   You don't even know these lyrics, which is beautiful. Everybody in the audience should know Chase has no fucking clue fish lyrics. I rec I recognize them as fish lyrics, but I I wouldn't be able to recite them like you can.  

[00:07:25] Unknown:

So   we started this podcast.   I don't know what the date was.   Sure we could figure it out. That's all for It was February it was February.   February   2025.  

[00:07:39] Unknown:

No. 2024.   Oh, of twenty twenty five. You're right. You're right. You're right.  

[00:07:44] Unknown:

Okay.   Jesus Christ. There's no way we've been doing this two years.   Okay. We started the podcast in February   2025.   And   the vision   that started the podcast,   you and I started talking about this in 2024,   for sure.   So, I think I met you probably in close to February or March 2024.   Right?  

[00:08:10] Unknown:

Yes. You're looking it up?   Yeah. Correct. No. I'm looking it up.  

[00:08:15] Unknown:

No. You're you're looking up the day we met?  

[00:08:17] Unknown:

No. I'm looking I'm looking up our first episode.  

[00:08:23] Unknown:

Right. So what brought us here to this podcast   was a vision   that Mhmm. I'm gonna say the first time saw the first time I saw the light of day, you know, I did I did put the essay out, but I don't know that the essay really counts because nobody fucking read it. Like, if I go on my ghost blog,   it'll show that, like, seven people looked at it or something like that, you know? Right. So I can't really say that that was the moment. So I think the moment really would   the moment   this and what is this vision really is that fish   and Bitcoin   are connected and have been connected.  

I'd say at least since, like, 1986,   probably going back to the beginning, which by the way, what's today? Today is twelve two. Today is December 2, which is   the forty   second year anniversary of   the ROTC   the ROTC show. The ROTC show. The ROTC show that where, Fish played their first ever show   and was drowned out by Michael Jackson beat it.  

[00:09:28] Unknown:

That's right.  

[00:09:29] Unknown:

I wanna say that like Borat. Michael Jackson beat it, you know?  

[00:09:33] Unknown:

Yeah.   So like Okay.  

[00:09:38] Unknown:

So we're sitting here today, December 2, very significant day in the Phish lore.   Mhmm.   You know, they they played a shitty show   and got booed off the stage and got drowned out by Michael Jackson, which is cool.   But here we are.   We go back to we probably go back to that day as this connection with Bitcoin. That's the vision.   That's the insane insane   thing that I insisted.   Like, I right? I say I and you you you were like, dude, you're insisting this. I'm fucking in. Oh, man. Let's do this. 100%. I mean, and because this podcast didn't would never have happened without without you jumping on and being like, fuck yeah.  

[00:10:21] Unknown:

It was it was my privilege and my honor. Absolutely.  

[00:10:26] Unknown:

So this this,   this world view is being expressed.   Okay?   This world view is being expressed and, you know, I'm getting made fun of a lot. Right? I go to I like I was going to my meetups   and everybody knows me as that, like, they don't know me as a guy that was gonna write, like, a book about institutions and stuff like that. They're like, this is the idiot that doesn't stop talking about fish. Yeah. I mean The fucking band that you know? Well, let's go back to how I met you. I re because I  

[00:10:54] Unknown:

No. I'm I I met with a mutual   acquaintance for lunch.   I won't name him by name, just for OPSEC. I think you know who I'm talking about.   He runs a Yeah. I know who you're talking about. You can name him by name. Yeah. So Matt. Whatever.   Yeah. Whatever. I'm just like I'm not gonna say OPSEC by name. Like, he doesn't wanna be associated with this conversation. I I guess I Exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. For his own for his own safety in case   I don't wanna go down that road, but I I'm tempted. But,   so we have lunch, and he mentions, you know, music came up, and he mentioned me, like, the dead. And,   I actually lost you. Hopefully, you're still there. It's okay. I I think I'm I'm Okay. Good. Still here. So we're having lunch. He's he's given me a t shirt. I bought a I bought a meetup t shirt. And rather than ship it to me, he's like, let me just let's just meet for lunch. We're like, where you at?  

Exactly. So that I have that t shirt. I have that on a t shirt. Putting out swag right now.   It's a great t shirt, by the way. And, Shout out to Dave Burns for the design of those. Oh, Dave Burns did that? No shit. Yes, he did. See? Yep. Fun facts.   I've learned a lot since this moment, since this story I'm about to describe. He didn't get enough. And we're talk. We're gonna run music.  

[00:12:06] Unknown:

Who cares? So you're out for lunch?  

[00:12:09] Unknown:

Yeah. We're out to lunch. You're out to lunch? He's into the dead. And I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm I I I'm He is into the dead. I'm pretty seriously into the into the band Phish. Oh, yeah. See, I didn't even get the I didn't wanna have to, like, criticize him, so I stayed away from, like, what version of the dead he was into. But I I would criticism is just  

[00:12:27] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be I wouldn't be able to hold back, and I'd probably offend him. And then you might be These guys are too young to have ever have ever been to, like, an old dead show. You know what I mean? They're they're too young.   Understood. So they like but they like going to shows. They like the jam band scene, and they like going to shows, and they like it's like the dead   calls to them.  

[00:12:47] Unknown:

And that's fair, but there's but there's JRad. Yeah. And JRad's been around for a long time and and they are this they are this superior version of the dead,  

[00:12:56] Unknown:

by far. JRad's cool. So okay. So you're like, I like the fish.  

[00:13:00] Unknown:

I like the p fish. And he's like, I know a guy who also likes the p fish.   And he runs the Phoenixville meetup. And I was like, no shit. Yeah. He's like and he mentioned your handle fundamentals. The p Phoenixville meetup.   Meter. The p the p the p Phoenix film meter. But  

[00:13:17] Unknown:

Dude, one of the biggest misses ever was not be doing p h for fundamentals.  

[00:13:23] Unknown:

Because, you know, p h is your two letter handle on, on Noster. Right? Just pH. Yeah. Well, I've sort of fixed it everywhere now, you know?  

[00:13:33] Unknown:

But, yeah. Doing like, I how did I miss pH for fundamentals, by the way? Like, that's that's   that's, like, kind of insane.  

[00:13:40] Unknown:

I just assumed you were trying not to be,  

[00:13:43] Unknown:

I thought it was intentional that you that you intentionally avoided it for some reason. It wasn't. It wasn't. I mean, I feel like I feel like it's one of the big l's.  

[00:13:52] Unknown:

Well Still going back, by the way. Well, I mean, I think you have nothing to hang your head on as it relates to you representing Phish, as it relates to,   as you as you show up to these meetups and these events that you're not going with  

[00:14:06] Unknown:

I didn't know   how much fish was gonna matter   when I got into Bitcoin.   The interest started with my name. I just had no idea.   Yeah. You know? I was just going to the last fish show I would go to for three years   in Mexico,   and I was getting into Bitcoin. I just didn't I had no idea that these so I did not have this vision yet. Right? Right. Right. So after you met me and it was, like, really validating to have met you. Right? It's like, wait. Somebody actually told you to come and contact me because of this? Okay. Right.   And then, I think I had you read   the paper.  

Mhmm. And you were like, okay. I don't disagree with any I don't know what the fuck you wrote because I'm Yeah. I know you're what you're talking about, but but I'm down. I was like, okay. Good. Jason's down.   That's right. There was another guy. I don't know. There was another guy in the in our Philly meetup who went by the name, Wama.  

[00:15:04] Unknown:

That's on the nose.  

[00:15:07] Unknown:

Yeah. And he was into fish and,   that   there were a couple of guys that ran through that meetup that were into fish but just didn't stick. Didn't stick around.   So the what is this vision that I speak of? Right? This vision is that fish   and Bitcoin   are connected and have been since   really the beginning.   They have been connected and it's evident in the lyrics. So this is what I you know, I you go back to episode one, two, and all that, and I start, you know, reading from the essay. It's evident in the lyrics.   It's evident in,   I have interacted with Tom Marshall about this. Tom Marshall has said   that he likes Bitcoin.  

Whatever. He wanted nothing to do with my Twitter account after saying that,   but,   like, he did say it. I think I dig this tweet up. That should be, like, my pinned tweet.  

[00:16:01] Unknown:

Yeah. It should be. Points.  

[00:16:04] Unknown:

You know, so, like, that's the vision. And then what Mhmm. We did this we started this podcast. And so   I'm sure I've told you this at some point in our podcasting journey. This isn't,   your first podcast, not my first. Right?   What I have learned   from Rock Paper Bitcoin   podcast   is that   it is actually possible   and fairly frequent that it happens,   that we talk about things in the podcast and then all of a sudden they happen.   They, like, happen in the world. Right? Yeah. We like will things into existence by talking about them on the podcast.   And, you know, we have some examples.  

We do have some examples in our past 25 episodes of this   show   of that happening.  

[00:16:50] Unknown:

Correct.  

[00:16:51] Unknown:

Right?   So   but but the greatest example   I think took place today.   Yeah. Today would be the greatest example of   I think, really merging now,   like, hitting a nonce,   mer and just merging the fucking vision into reality. Now it's no longer, like, this metaphysical thing. Okay?   So what happened today was and, you know, I had been   I'd been going back and forth with Craig.   Craig's like the   head of programming   at BTC   Inc.   Mhmm. You know, organizing the Bitcoin conference. And we were, like,   kinda like   talking about, man,   I hope that Fish when they there's room you know, it started to be rumors that Fish was gonna do the Sphere in Vegas.  



[00:17:38] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:17:39] Unknown:

And we were like, fuck, dude. Can you imagine if they'd schedule it like like, two weeks before the Bitcoin conference?   And we kinda have to go   go home and then go back like that. Yeah. That would just Yeah. That would suck really bad or just not go. It would. Like, for me, I probably wouldn't have gone.   Yeah. What did Phish do?   What Phish did today, they announced a nine show  

[00:18:03] Unknown:

run at the Sphere. That's exciting in and of itself. So let's just start Can you call so let me just pause you for a second. You you called two different things,   and they both came true today.   And I don't know if you're aware of that, but I'll let you I'll let you continue.  

[00:18:19] Unknown:

Let me let's finish, and then you can tell me what the two things are.   Okay. So Let's do that. Phish announced a nine show run at the Sphere.   Now, I called Halloween,   and I I don't think and I   I did call Halloween this year, and maybe that's not gonna happen   because of this   sphere run now. Right?   Right. But,   this nine show run is literally happening   exactly   around the Bitcoin conference.  

[00:18:49] Unknown:

What can I do? Which means  

[00:18:51] Unknown:

Right? Which means that we can go to their shows, we can go to the conference, and then we can actually go back to the shows if we want to. Go back and do more shows.   Okay. That's one thing. That's number one. Number two,   dude, do you know how fucking deep   I I am I feel like I've never rolled this deep when when   when we do go.   Yeah. And the amount of people that have contacted me today saying I cannot wait to go to this show. I can't wait to see Fish.   Right. One of the whichever one we decide to go to. Yeah. Because most people miss the first  

[00:19:25] Unknown:

most people miss the first four. So everybody that missed those four is definitely going this time because there's nine shows. Like, there's enough shows for everybody to get a taste. Now the first four happened at the halving, that it emerged at the halving. Yeah.  

[00:19:40] Unknown:

Now they've merged with the Bitcoin conference. So now this, like, to me, this vision is coming to reality. Like, the the it is intersected physically.   The two biggest events   the two biggest events of the year. It's it's unbelievable.  

[00:19:54] Unknown:

And How the fuck, right?   It's it is. It's how the fuck.  

[00:19:59] Unknown:

Dude, I my life is insane right now because of what I feel like.  

[00:20:04] Unknown:

Right. Processing this. Yeah. Well, you sent me a text today, and I hadn't I hadn't caught the news yet. I was like, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, like, fucking, you care you care to share, like, what the fuck you're talking about? I didn't trust that. I was like, oh my god.   I've been a little I I intentionally unplugged a little bit in beginning with Thanksgiving, so that's my, Yeah. People have been worried about you. I know. I I saw I saw Jer in the in the,   in the Telegram. I'm like, I'm a I sold that. I was like, I'm okay. Sir.  

[00:20:34] Unknown:

If Hook Jer comes  

[00:20:35] Unknown:

I I hope he does too. Really Hook Jer comes to Vegas. I hope he does too.   He, seems like he he knows his shit. He's not, he's not fugazi.   He's,   he's solid to tell. Difference. He can tell the difference between a string cheese jam and a fish jam.  

[00:20:54] Unknown:

So what were the two things that I called?  

[00:20:57] Unknown:

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, you alluded to wouldn't it be fucking cool if these two events were side by side?   And I had a very calm confidence that that was gonna come to fruition for some reason. I had a calm confidence about it too. I just Uh-huh. But again, I had a calm confidence and yet never thought it would happen. Yeah. Exactly. You you can be amazingly surprised but also be, like, nonchalant about, like, yeah. Of course of course they would be back to back.   Not only back to back, but bookended.   Bookended.  



[00:21:26] Unknown:

Wild. Bookended. And   I have,  

[00:21:31] Unknown:

so what was the second thing? Oh, the second one was you had predicted that they would do something along the lines of a baker's dozen again, and this isn't.  

[00:21:39] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's true. It doesn't. I mean, this is  

[00:21:43] Unknown:

pretty close. This is a big this nine it's nine shows. They won't repeat any songs. I think that's guaranteed.  

[00:21:48] Unknown:

It goes without Dude, nine shows in Vegas   nine shows in Vegas is like a billion times more intense than 13 shows in New York. 100%.  

[00:21:57] Unknown:

100% true for everybody involved.  

[00:22:01] Unknown:

That yeah. I mean, first of all, nobody can   no. I don't think anybody can really do,   it's going to be   it's gonna be a long haul in Vegas. No one's doing nine   shows. No one's doing that.   Right?  

[00:22:16] Unknown:

No. I I'm I'm certain people will.  

[00:22:20] Unknown:

Dude, you can't, like, be in Vegas for that long. Like, that's the thing. Like, you can't do it. Yeah. So we're gonna be if, you know, we're gonna see towards the end some pretty spun out motherfuckers.  

[00:22:30] Unknown:

Yeah. Let me tell you this. The people that are gonna do all nine shows haven't been in Vegas either ever   or not for more than a couple of days.   Those are those new loops   will will get sucked into the vortex and maybe not come out.  

[00:22:46] Unknown:

I've always said and I don't care who you are, how much money you make, how wealthy you are.   Three days for max is what you could do in Vegas.   Exactly true. It it's just you're gonna you're gonna operate to whatever level you can,   and then you're gonna be just done   Done. After three days.   Just fucking done. Like, you can just will not be able to wait to fucking leave.   And that's just I feel like that's how it is. I don't care if it's I don't care if Phish is there or not.   And having all these breaks between shows, I just can't   see people   really,   staying that long. I could see locals, like if you're a local.  

So can I let me mention now? I'm gonna I'm gonna speak something else potentially into existence   here. Okay. This is why I wanted to do the podcast tonight.   Okay? Okay. So   here's a big implication of the scheduling.  

[00:23:44] Unknown:

Should we just the implication?  

[00:23:46] Unknown:

The implication.   I went vindication. Idiot. I don't have I should have this open in front of me. I should have it. I don't. Now take your time. This was an emergency episode, so, you know, it's water. So So let me let me just get the details here. Okay?   Details.   We've got April 16, seventeenth, and eighteenth.   Okay?   So we got I'm assuming these are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This is really spread out.  

[00:24:15] Unknown:

Okay. So today's sixteenth.   Sixteenth Because, you know, WrestleMania. And then we got Yeah. Go ahead.  

[00:24:22] Unknown:

Sorry. We got '23, 2425.   So this this is basically three straight weekends. Sat Friday, Saturday, Sunday is my guess.   And then we got April 30, May 1, and May 2. And so in between there,   we have   the Bitcoin conference   on April 27   through the twenty ninth.   Correct. Right? And we also have So the 20 wrestling And the and So we we don't even have to it it doesn't even interrupt with any events that we are gonna plan or plan it into. So we get to we literally have the twenty third, twenty fourth, twenty fifth is the fish show. We have the '20 the Bitcoin conference then is then in between, and then the fish show start again thirtieth, first, and second.  

[00:25:06] Unknown:

Yep.   It's wild.  

[00:25:10] Unknown:

And And we have WrestleMania in the beginning. Even know yeah. I don't even know what to make.   Right? Like, what are we gonna do? Like, how are we go we're gonna go to a show before, go to show after? I can I can see those I can see doing the bookend shows?   Yeah. We are gonna wanna go home after three or four days. We are gonna wanna go home.   The fucking circumstances are. So, like, that's, you know,   like staying an extra day to go to another show,   it's gonna be tough. I mean, we have to we really gotta figure this out.  

[00:25:39] Unknown:

Yeah.   Because, you know, none of my peer group are gonna be   doing doing their itinerary planning their itinerary like we are in the sense of I think the middle three is the opportunity.  

[00:25:51] Unknown:

I do I think the middle three is something   maybe the second two of the middle three. Yep. Is the opportunity here.   So, okay. So let me speak something into existence now.   Implications.   Well, now that it's so spread out,   I'm not so sure of these implications.   Okay. But the implications   I thought might be in play   is that everyone's in Vegas   and that maybe we can get Trey and Tom on a panel   at the Bitcoin conference   and I can put it to them   and say, right, I can say I can put it to them and say,   yay or nay?   This this observation I have about Fluffhead,   you know, is it possible that you were thinking   about   this? Golgi apparatus,   is it possible? Theme from the bottom. All the things that I wrote about and I, like, literally just pepper them   with questions about how obviously this stuff connects to Bitcoin. Like, have you thought about this at all?  

Yeah. That would be cool ass panel, would it not? It would be. It's like enter now. Go.   I mean, if Trey wanted to fucking   collaborate with Cardi B at Bonnaroo.   Right?   You would think he would find it kinda fucking cool. And if Tom really does like Bitcoin and they they were asked to do a fucking panel,  

[00:27:11] Unknown:

I feel like they would do it. I I think you're I mean, this is it.   I don't know if you read the article where they were gonna cover Taylor a Taylor Swift song. It was the year they did the the game engineers,   and they ended up pulling the plug.   And, my wife sent me an article.   And, so they are very,   spontaneous.  

[00:27:33] Unknown:

Spontaneous.   Right? And I'd feel like the energy is here   now to make this happen. Yes.  

[00:27:40] Unknown:

We are channeling it. You especially.   You've been making amazing calls.  

[00:27:45] Unknown:

So so I told the story about how '98 I told the story to you, how '98 we got fucking pulled out   of the Thomas and Mack Center by my friend's now ex wife. Right? Cardinal sin,   horrific.   Disaster. We   we were so psyched for that Halloween. And then so my friend and I, we redeemed ourselves. We talked about this at the Halloween episode.   We redeemed ourselves in 2016   with David Bowie. We, you know, we went back to the MGM brand,   had a great old time,   totally They were divorced. They were divorced. They were divorced.   Got the hollow you know, got the Halloween experience. So that was,   you know,   so '98 to 2016, that was eight years. Right?  

So now this is nine years later. We're ready for another   another   Halloween   redemption.   Yes. This time, I think it's the band   really leaning into this,   idea that they could be associated with Bitcoin and not even know it.  

[00:28:46] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:28:47] Unknown:

They're leaning into it. They're calling to They don't realize it. I'm   going to do a kung fucking kung chant.   Kung.   Kung.   Do a fucking kung chant to call to the gods   to will this into existence.   Kung.   I I feel like like, you know, you know,   your,   your unnamed friend, Matt Keeda,   who did this daily Yeah. My unnamed friend. My absolute friend who who introduced us, Matt. You know, he's now known because of,   he was tweeting what's his name? The guy from CNBC was tweeting him every day asking him to have a meet him at PUPKEY.  

[00:29:32] Unknown:

Which guy?   The the Bitcoin guy or the other guy? On CNBC. I forget I forget his name. Is it is it the heavy guy or the skin or the skinny dork that always hates on Bitcoin?  

[00:29:42] Unknown:

I'm not sure, but he but he did it for a hundreds of days in a row and finally got it. Like, Like, he finally got it. That's amazing.   That's amazing. Okay. Like, it's fucking amazing. Right? That's what I'm doing to Craig right now   to,  

[00:29:55] Unknown:

to try and pull Tom and Trey it. Yeah. You're doing a are you doing a daily message? Be that   guy. Listen, stranger things have happened.   Like, you know, bookending the Bitcoin conference.   You know, stranger things have happened.  

[00:30:11] Unknown:

I mean, what if but what like, what if this acknowledge what if this really does something for Bitcoin   too? Interesting. That's the thing no one would think about. Right? Yeah. Because   this whole effort, everything we do here   is because,   at least for me,   you know, I think we're really bringing something culturally into the Bitcoin scene that's needed.  

[00:30:35] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:30:37] Unknown:

I forgot the Twitter interaction I had. It's dude, I've been playing streetball   on Twitter. Like, you know, like it's just I'm playing on instinct now. There's no organized idea of what I'm doing. I'm just reacting now. It's just all day long. Okay. I'm acting, playing street ball.  

[00:30:51] Unknown:

Yeah. Okay.  

[00:30:53] Unknown:

But, like, it was it was a conversation about, like,   you know, people   you know, now that the fish conversation is starting to happen,   it it so Dan's episode got a lot of play. I know. I saw The episode we just did with Dan, it got a lot of play. A lot of people listened to it, a lot of interaction, got a lot of really good engagement.   And so we started I started getting pulled into these tweets about Creed, about like the bands that are already like officially part of Bitcoin, like Creed, Journey, and all this stuff. Jesus Christ. And  

[00:31:24] Unknown:

you know, you know how it is with these I do know how it is, but it's like, oh.  

[00:31:28] Unknown:

It's hard to break the entire culture.   Yeah. But, like, what I what I have to say about it is that every one of these bands probably has their wool in the culture. And I think, like, if I thought about Phish,   wool   in Bitcoin culture   that none of these other bands are doing.   What Bitcoin struggles with is how to build a fucking   network effect on the Internet, how to build   a society on the Internet.   Mhmm. Fish fans wrote the book on   this. So pulling some Fish fans together,   I think, is a good idea.  

[00:32:04] Unknown:

Yeah. And you know what? I I had a thought about this, and if you allow me to kinda get my thoughts out on on Oh, please. This idea that, like,   we you and I have commented. I've heard you talk about this, like, on other pods just in You and Me in Real Life, Meet Space,   about,   you know, the propensity   of   people in this space. You know, the true everyone's trying to monetize. You know, you get you get past the point where, like, now it's your job and you start   behaving differently because you're trying to you're trying to make money or you're trying to now maybe not behave in a way that an advert an advertiser might find attractive.   You know, it's like this performative   dynamic, and I think   Dan touched on this a little bit last episode.  

And one thing that fish could teach Bitcoin   is that they never did that.   And I was never able to really articulate it. I said it in the past and that they never used their platform as like   a place to grandstand or try to share their political views or do anything other than   do the music.   They never   seize that opportunity and try to monetize it further. Like you said, the dead kind of did towards the end, and it ruined the kind of ruined the scene. Turned into a traveling circus where everyone's like   it's their livelihood   as opposed to just music and culture.  



[00:33:26] Unknown:

Yeah. You know, that first episode I went on how Hashrate with Dan and Mike,   I had said it's really worth going and listening to.   I should probably throw it in the show notes.   But I had said and and only actually, I think I say it in the like, it's the clipped opening.   Okay. I say that that Phish was the only band ever   to defeat the money printer.   And I say this in a in a non pleb, sloppy, the most non pleb, sloppy way possible.   Right.   No band everybody   think every, you know, everybody loved their favorite band and every band fucking sold out. Everyone.   Every single one.  



[00:34:08] Unknown:

They just succumb to the opportunity.  

[00:34:12] Unknown:

Now, some bands maybe fizzled out before they sold out. You know, some bands never really got the opportunity to sell out.   But,   you know, the thing is Phish never to this day, have still never let their fans down like that   to this day. 100%.   That was And, you know, if you listen to the Gordo   interview with Rick Rubin,   which   not sure if you have yet. I have.   Yeah. So how many times did Gordon mention John Paluska?   How many times did he mention Paluska   in that Right. Interview?   Paluska was their manager, and this dude just did everything right. Like,   literally, like, had a golden fucking touch. Just he knew he knew it was good for the band.  

Mhmm. And every decision was a decision to not sell out and do the right thing. Like, it it's unprecedented.  

[00:35:03] Unknown:

Yeah. Do you wanna share that one? Wasn't there one, right right before it was they had a chance to to to ride alongside the dead. Right?  

[00:35:12] Unknown:

I think I think you I think you Oh, my God. Yeah. That this was, oh, my God. Yeah. And we never talk about this. Mike Yeah. Mentions   I I had never known this.   Mike mentions   that they were asked   to open for the dead for sol for the Soldier Field show that turned out to be their last ever show. Their last their last show. Because Jerry died that night.  

[00:35:35] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:35:36] Unknown:

No. He didn't die that night. That was their last show of that tour. Yes. Sorry. It was the last show of that tour. He died. Jerry died in America. He died three weeks later or four weeks later. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.   So You're fine. Whatever.  

[00:35:47] Unknown:

We're hyped.  

[00:35:48] Unknown:

I'm hyped, man. But okay. So   the point was they said no. They were a hard no. They were like a no fucking way will we ever do that.  

[00:36:00] Unknown:

Which is fucking mind blowing.   Right? That's mind blowing if you put yourself in the pictures.  

[00:36:06] Unknown:

They were right in that moment starting to I mean, look, they'd already they'd already gotten MSG.   Yeah. They're starting to spread their wings a little bit. Yep. They were still doing the same old kinda how the same old little band shells and summer tour,   you know.   '95   was, you know, I mean, Jones Beach, Great Woods, The Man, Sugar Bush. Yep. You know, the same Yep.   That same group of   of venues.   And in '95,   we're talking '95 now. Right? '95. By the way, what are we listening to right now? What are we what what what are we listening to right now?  

[00:36:42] Unknown:

We have, twelve one Speaking of 1995.  

[00:36:46] Unknown:

From Hershey in twenty Twelve one ninety five. That was yesterday. 12/01/1995. Yesterday was the   yesterday would would have been the thirty year anniversary of that show. Thirty year anniversary   of the show. Put a pen in this because I wanna talk about that. That was the really the reason we had planned to talk today.  

[00:37:01] Unknown:

That's right. Right? Just for that. So '95 And I'm glad that we waited, by the way.  

[00:37:07] Unknown:

I'm glad we waited. Really good that we waited today. Yeah.   Ninety five,   They're not lighting.   They're not lighting the world on fire with big venues at all. They're playing fairly small minor league hockey arena still in that fall tour, including,   including that Hershey, that venue in Hershey, which is not the bigger it's not like the bigger Hershey Park Stadium that we've gone to. Yeah. It's it's the indoor.   Yeah. It's the indoor. It's the indoor stadium that Wilt Chamberlain scored a 100 points in.  

[00:37:37] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:37:38] Unknown:

And the Hershey Bears play. Right? The Hershey Bears play that. The Hershey Bears. Yeah. And, like, the stadium hasn't been updated since. And,   anyway, so we'll get to that. But, like, the bottom line was they're not this big band playing these huge venues   to say no to the to an opportunity to open for the dead, but they're, like, they were pretty good.  

[00:37:58] Unknown:

Yeah. But Like, we're good. If if anybody in legacy if they had followed the legacy   path of success for any other band, if they had a   big record label or some manager that wasn't, like, part of them, that wasn't one of them, that didn't come come, like, you know, grassroots level,   they would have been pressured very, very heavily to accept that offer.   Like, they just would have.  

[00:38:24] Unknown:

So all the decisions   I think they had their money. They were fine with money by then.  

[00:38:30] Unknown:

Yeah. They were okay. Having trust I didn't realize they helped I didn't realize they were trust fund kids until Mike's interview.   I didn't realize to the extent that they were  

[00:38:39] Unknown:

Mike was a trust fund kid. I don't think I don't think any   I don't think any of us had trust funds except, you know, Paige's dad was a senior   guy,   McNeil   slash Tylenol, invented Tylenol.  

[00:38:52] Unknown:

He's an MD. Right?  

[00:38:53] Unknown:

Gave everybody autism.   Beautiful.   He created he created the fish scene completely.  

[00:38:59] Unknown:

He gave you autism. You should thank him.  

[00:39:04] Unknown:

Mike's   Mike's parents owned, like, a supermarket chain, but I didn't realize he was a trust fund child.   Fishman was not a trust fund baby either. Okay. Okay. I don't know what his parents did.   And Trey's dad worked for ETS,   the educational testing service that created, like, the SAT and shit like that. Yeah.   The number two I mean, they, you know, they had money. They had money to send him to boarding school and all that shit, but, like,   you know, they weren't. I don't think they I don't think they all had trust funds. I think it was personally Mike.   Okay.  



[00:39:39] Unknown:

Sorry about that. Any And you don't have autism, by the way. I you've said that about yourself before. So  

[00:39:45] Unknown:

Sometimes.   It happens.   Oh, that's cute. We're all hyped.  

[00:39:54] Unknown:

So, You're hyped, man.  

[00:39:57] Unknown:

Yeah. So, like, Phish   defeated   they defeated the money printer.   And they're singular they're a singularity   in this respect.  

[00:40:09] Unknown:

Yes.   Singularity.  

[00:40:10] Unknown:

Okay.   I mean, you know, like, they got they did everything   they did   and never like, they never even came close. They never had came close to this moment of selling out.   And here they are forty two years later,   still, like, at the peak of their powers, I would say.   You know? We so shout out, dude. Shout out Mark Goodwin. Starting to really get involved in some of these fish conversations on Twitter. How fucking great is that? Holy shit, dude. Unbelievable. Incredible. I love it. I love love to see it. He he's kinda like arguing with me about 95 versus '97. I was like, oh, this is my life is complete to be in the It is.  

[00:40:51] Unknown:

And I have to say, he's he's right on that. He he's right.  

[00:40:55] Unknown:

They're all right on that. Absolutely true. What I wanted is what I wanted to what I want to say about that is that,   you're I I was I was thinking about it a lot in the last couple of days.   And when I think of the new songs   that exist,   Justin four point o   okay?   Wave of Hope,   Flew Away, Monsters,   Oblivion,   this crop of new songs   you know, when I think that they didn't exist in 1997   or 1995,   it's hard it, like, it's hard to   it's hard to put them   it's it's hard to keep them on such that level even though, like, I was there, dude. I went to probably nine shows in '95   and, like, another nine shows in the '97. Like, I, you know, I went to a lot of shows on those runs. They were incredible.  

But,   but the songbook is so much   bigger and deeper   now. So it's like, okay. Yeah. They're not kids anymore. Trade doesn't shred.   Their shows aren't as chaotically fun as they were before. Mhmm. And we're all older   Right. And lamer.   But so,   you know,   it's all in it's all in,   I don't know.  

[00:42:10] Unknown:

Yeah. It is hard to remember.   Yeah. It's, like, it's hard to remember when you were new to something. I mean, I see that in Bitcoin. Like, it's hard to remember how we were in the early days. You know what I mean? It's hard to empathize with noobs once you're   once you're an advanced kind of level whatever hobby. Want to.  

[00:42:26] Unknown:

Yeah. Just don't want to. You don't want to remember. I mean,   Phish fans   perfected and invented   everything there is to do about building an online   building it like an online world. And Yes. Especially when it comes to dealing with noobs,   there's just a way.   You know? Yeah. There's a way to do it. Just fucking yell at them if they're, you know, call them chompers.   Right. Call them chompers and or shut up, noob. You make them earn respect. You yeah. You make them earn their fucking respect if that's what they want.   Correct. Right? Most of them don't want that. Most of them don't want respect. Most of them just wanna suck their nitrous balloon   and fall on their face   and by themselves without anybody shaming them. Right. Exactly.  

You know? But we do have a culture.  

[00:43:17] Unknown:

Hand up over here.  

[00:43:21] Unknown:

Yeah. We have I mean, Fish has a culture that just Bitcoin can learn from.   And it's a culture of because it's a again, it's a singularity of how to beat the money printer. That's what Bitcoiners are trying to do.   Yep. They're not all winning. Right? It's like, you know, Sailor having to hold a big cash reserve is not winning. Right? Bukele try having to   sort of bend the knee to the IMF   and agree to a bunch of terms. It's that that you know, there's L's to take along the way. Yes.   But we are trying. Like, that's Yeah. You I think that everyone here is trying to be we're trying to beat the money printers fucking hard.   Right? It is hard. And we maybe could use some help.  



[00:44:02] Unknown:

Yeah. And, you know, Phish,   how do I put this? As it relates   to,   you know, what I think Bitcoiners   or what the Bitcoin community or culture could could learn from the most is,   you said, you know, beat the money printer.   I think that's a big piece of it. But,   you know, I and and Dan brought this up last week, which is, you know, you you become really good at noticing things when the longer you're in Bitcoin. You just notice things.   And what Bitcoin has noticed the most or what what we have an immune system for is anything that resembles, like, dishonesty,   scam,   lack of congruence,  

[00:44:43] Unknown:

you know, authenticity. To the point of autoimmunity.   To the point of autoimmunity.   Yes. It's like Right. Automatic. And Phish doesn't do that. The Phish crowd doesn't   have an autoimmune problem,   in my opinion. Yeah. But ever. They never had  

[00:44:59] Unknown:

Yeah. But clearly, the band did. Like, they they were   like you just said, they they never missed they didn't make any mistakes along there was there there's nothing we can point to to say, oh, we'll just let that slide.   That one thing that Phish did that one time. There's none of that. It's amazing.   It's like immaculate.  

[00:45:17] Unknown:

That's right. That's right. When I said the Bitcoin community has an   autoimmunity   problem,   it's like they get   they get   they get carried away   with   anything that could be a scam or anything like that. It's hypodialic.  

[00:45:34] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:45:36] Unknown:

It gets deranged. We get the we   we we had the Gordian Knotts episode. That was we had some fun with it, but, like,   you know, there to me, that's those are signs of, like, autoimmune   issues. The immune system is so strong. We just start attacking ourselves.   And that's the thing. Again, we can learn from,   fish crap.   Just Yeah. Again, cult we could   they could benefit from this culture.   It may be really important for all I know. It may be really, really important that this story get told.   Right? I mean, we we're chugging, dude. I did not know we would get to 25 episodes. This today's episode 26. This is crazy that Correct. We would I know. That we would get this. I didn't think we had 26 episodes in us at all.   Yeah. But, like, you know, the gods are talking.  



[00:46:25] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. What's   it? I said I kinda did. I I knew this was gonna go on for a little while.  

[00:46:32] Unknown:

I didn't see it. I I was remember, I think we said, let's do five episodes and see what happens. Yeah. Or let's do 10. And we did five of Breaking a Sweat. That was just your writing.  

[00:46:42] Unknown:

You know?  

[00:46:43] Unknown:

Yeah. I say that I say that to say   that it may be that it's really important and the reason we've had the energy   and the content   and the will   to keep doing this   is from the gods because this is important.   Yes. It is important. So I tend to believe it still is.   So I'm gonna continue.   You and I are gonna continue on this mission   to bring   the best part to fish culture to Bitcoin because we think that it matters. We think that there are real   things that can be learned   and,   you know, maybe that's it maybe it's a difference maker.  

[00:47:24] Unknown:

Yeah. And sometimes you just have to do things because you've you feel like you have to. You feel like it's important. Like, you know, just you and I think it's important. And for that for that reason alone, we're gonna continue and   and pour our head out as much as we can.  

[00:47:39] Unknown:

So I wanna talk a little bit about this show   we're listening to, this thirty year anniversary.   Yesterday was the thirty year anniversary.   It's a very special show.   12/01/1995,   in a town that   Trey had referred to as the mystical   land of chocolate.   This is back when, I guess, they were heavy Simpsons watchers.   It's a town I now call pronoun city.   Hershey, Pennsylvania.  

[00:48:13] Unknown:

Oh, wow. I never never put that together.   Good shit.  

[00:48:20] Unknown:

Yeah. It's good shit.   It was a so   this was   we had just gone to Pittsburgh   on 11/24.   So that was the Friday of Thanksgiving that year,   November 24.   And we had gone to Pittsburgh and we it was a day trip. We drove to Pittsburgh   that was a rare one shotter.   Kind of thing you do when you're young, I guess. Yeah. But,   supposedly Mario Lemieux   was at that show according to Trey.   Never confirmed.   Never confirmed. And by by that, I mean, Trey,   in the middle of the show said, hey, ladies and gentlemen,   Mario Lemieux.   And everyone cheered   and nobody questioned it until the Tom Hanks shit,   like,   in MSG,   which I guess was also that year.  

Right?   When Tom Marshall came out as Tom Hanks? That couldn't have been that year.   But,   no. No. That was later. So that was later. Yeah. It had to be later because it was cast after Castaway, after the movie cast It was after Castaway. Yes. Yes. Yeah.   So nobody questioned this Mary Lemieux   situation. She's like, oh, how cool is that, dude? Mary Lemieux is going to fish shows. Oh, that's fucking awesome.   So, yeah, so we go to,   we go to pit Pittsburgh Civic Center   Arena   where the Penguins do play.   And,   when a week later is   twelve one. And so we get in the car again and drive out to Hershey. Fucking snowy   snowy ass night.  

We meet my friends.   So I have a one of my really closest friend,   my like, I'd say my number one show buddy   in the last,   you know, thirty years.   Okay. The one whose ex wife pulled us out. Yes. Yeah.   That that So the story I wanna tell about him is that, like, we've we had been trying to get him into fish   since   like, he is part of a a small crew that of us. That we were all in a fish and he just wasn't happy.   But we all smoked weed together. So, like, he was hanging out with us,   but   he wasn't into the fish.   We've gone to a bunch of shows. So, like, we went together. I went with him to 12/2894,   which was Philly Civic Center.  

Mhmm. We went to the man that year.   Let those legendary,   because he fucking   he he just drank so hard,   like, on his way to the show that he just started puking before the show and just was like, dude. You know, this is one of these things. So '94, he went to a couple of shows, but the music he was getting the music wasn't quite clicking, and he was getting increasingly frustrated with my like, are the rest of us trying to jam us trying to jam  

[00:51:23] Unknown:

him. You know? Yeah. Trying trying to jam him. Increasingly frustrated  

[00:51:28] Unknown:

to the point where we went to this Hershey show and   he sat in a different section from us. Like, it was like he he went out of his way to make sure that his tickets were somewhere else.  

[00:51:38] Unknown:

Right? What a dick.  

[00:51:43] Unknown:

But I need to tell you that   this is the show that he got.  

[00:51:48] Unknown:

Interesting.  

[00:51:50] Unknown:

Yeah.   I learned a lot about life in those two years. Like, literally, I learned a lot about life in the two and a half years of trying to get him to light fish and then,   you know, just quitting   and then letting him do it on his own. Let him do it on his own. Exactly.   Another big lesson for Bitcoiners.   You know? Like, we have a lot in common.   Yes. We really want the people we hang out with and love and love   to enjoy our shit.   Right? Yeah. We want that for them.   But there's a way   there's just a way to read to kinda read the room and figure out when it's appropriate to really put your foot on the gas and when not to.   Anyway, you know, he so, you know, we meet after the show   at some gas station.  

You gotta remember, it's 1995, dude. We had no maps, no fucking, you know, no no phones, no nothing. So it was always like, okay. We're there was this gas station that we knew about. And then we just like, okay. Well, this is we meet there before the show, and we met there after the show. Right. And, it's like everyone had to check-in. Right? Everyone had to check-in after the show before we all went home.   We're calling a train. And, he was like, dude, it happened.   It fucking happened.   And he's like, I could tell you exactly when it happened. It happened in the middle of the fucking simple,   Simple as a Song.  

A terrific, terrific song. I wonder if it's playing right now, you know.   And when I listen back to these shows,   I listen back to them all the time and I, you know, since I started putting the music on them. And I found   some pretty interesting coincidences   of, you know, whatever of song choices that are happening over specific parts of the conversation. So it's it wouldn't shock me. It wouldn't shock me. It wouldn't   me either. Yeah.   But it just for whatever reason, it clicked. And he was like, I'm in.   I got it. I get it. We can stop fighting about it now. Dude, he's still like, dude.   We would I remember we had, like, the divided sky on, and he just was like, what the fuck is this fucking circus music? He was just getting so angry   about it. It.  

And in this Hershey show, dude, he just gets it and it's like, dude, we were just   rolling from there, dude. Rolling from there. Yeah.  

[00:54:09] Unknown:

And But you Yeah. But you had to you had to give him some space, both literally and figuratively, it sounded like. And,   you know, Bitcoin and fish are two things that   once people,   realize how,   of what high quality both both are as it relates to, like, just improving your life,   that you wanna you wanna tell everybody about it. There are very few things that people get into that are, like, evangelical about it. And Phish is surprisingly one of those things.   You know, usually, people just like their music and they don't really, like, brag about it. But Phish fans do. We won't stop, actually.  

[00:54:47] Unknown:

We need people in our because we kinda need people in our life that will   be part of this.   Yeah. It's very hard to live this life   without,   you know, without without other, people to go to shows with and without people to share this with.   And, you know, it's like the in in the worst extreme, it's like you're in a friend group and they all like just shit ass fucking music, you know, and they wanna go to   dance clubs and fucking   you should have no   like, no, dude. Like, we wanna plan our vacations   together around where Phish is gonna be. Yes. You know?   Like, that's what we want.  



[00:55:25] Unknown:

Exactly right. And I you you know what? I never thought about the fact that there is a a self serving component to to bringing others along on the fish on the fish journey.   Yes. We want because we don't we still on this ride.   That's right. Because we have one friend in our in our crew, the my Mexico crew. I think I mentioned this to you. Like, I actually roomed up with him because my wife would never go and he's been single.  

[00:55:48] Unknown:

But now he's Yeah. But if it wasn't for fish, you having a Mexico crew would sound really strange.  

[00:55:54] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. I mean, I guess.   Yeah. Never thought of I never thought about it. But, yeah, I think you're right.   My Mexico crew.   Well, in the context of this podcast, I I have gotten pretty comfortable with saying saying certain things.   But he's bugging me right now, texting me. He wants me to help him get   tickets for Vegas, like travel package stuff in any way.   Like Yeah. That's what   like, he needs   I feel bad because I haven't I'm not going to Mexico this year, and and and I'm just he's all about going to concerts. He probably goes to 50 or 60 concerts a year. That's like his his number one thing.  

[00:56:31] Unknown:

And it's all bad except for fair. So he he's one of these guys that goes to, like, any concert.  

[00:56:36] Unknown:

Yeah. Kind of. He's exactly right.  

[00:56:44] Unknown:

Oh, I think I fucked up.   I think I fucked up. What's wrong?   I had it in my mind that that it was a simple, and I don't think it's, I'm actually looking at the set list, and I think it's just it's just the Mike's groove.   Yeah. Okay. Just the mic's groove   and  

[00:57:05] Unknown:

I can I can almost guarantee   it because because I listened to it before?  

[00:57:10] Unknown:

Yeah. I thought the simple was in there and maybe there's maybe it's just teases,   But whatever it was, it's that middle of that mic screw that really fucking twisted my friend up and   just made him a fan. Yeah.  

[00:57:23] Unknown:

Well, I can I can always go into this based based on the timing that it was play it was playing about ten minutes ago? So I think you're I think we're good on that.  

[00:57:34] Unknown:

Yeah. We'll see. We'll see.   It's a it's a one it's one of the the legendary   Mike Mike songs,   and '95 is probably the last great year for Mike's Grooves. I mean, well, there's the ninety eight ninety eight Wurster   where they,   where they all, like, they all took acid   and were laughing to each other.   It's on video.  

[00:57:58] Unknown:

Oh, that's   funny. Yeah. So back to our Hershey   Sorry. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say back to Hershey. So you met up with your friend at the at the gas station.   You said it it was snowing the whole show. Like, what was that?  

[00:58:12] Unknown:

That sounds like, It's a horrible snowy night. It was crazy snowy night.   Very sketchy.   Just snow. It it it was freezing. I remember being online.   I actually remember being online,   and it's, like, probably the last time I remember being online waiting to go into a Phish venue where it was, like, still a pretty small venue,   you know, where it was, like, a manageable amount of people, and it felt like it still felt like a college,   You know? It just felt like one of those college shows,   but it was freezing and fucking snowy.   Really sucked.  



[00:58:48] Unknown:

But you found each other, and that was the key. I mean, the fact that you were able to be separate and then Well, yeah. So we found each other again after the show at the gas station.   Right.  

[00:58:58] Unknown:

The other thing I wanna say I really remember was,   suspicious minds.   Fishman in all of his fucking glory and swagger, he had the Elvis jacket on and every like, he really hammed it up.   Yeah, dude. It's and this is such a sight, dude. You know? It's just one of those things. Such a sight. Yeah.   Yeah. So, like, we're the '95   was one of the last I feel like a lot of songs   peaked here.   You know, or, like, this cluster of songs that peaked in '95, like Antelope,   Bowie,   where, like, after '95, you just didn't have as so many special ones. Just Right. You know what I mean? Like, that Yeah. The yeah. Like you said, the the catalog kind of expanded and and different songs took those reins as time went on. I think they got the the venues did get bigger,   and they had to it's like Ghost became the big jam vehicle   Yep. At, you know, in the next era. And it's like that's the difference between '97 and '95   is that in '97,   it's just much more,   spacious.  

You're playing bigger arenas. You know? I'm thinking of NBA arenas like McNichols, Denver, 11/1795.   Sorry. '97.   You're   so, like, the jams are the jam vehicles are much more spacious, and so you it's more of now the story of the ghost   that's Yeah.  

[01:00:31] Unknown:

Doing And I think doing and I'd say the work. And Tweezer had a lot of it still has a lot of gravity.  

[01:00:38] Unknown:

The Tweezer I don't know if it did. Is to grow.  

[01:00:40] Unknown:

It's amazing. It does.  

[01:00:42] Unknown:

Yeah.   And when Tweezer is one of those songs that   oh, yeah. That transcends every era of their jamming. Like, that's the science ghost.  

[01:00:49] Unknown:

Yeah. I was gonna ask if that if during one point o, if in the nineties was tweezer as as special as it is now. Like, now when they've also had it, like, every tweezer is a good tweezer, it seems. Yeah. Like so, like, you had the Bomb Factory tweezer, 05/07/1994.  

[01:01:04] Unknown:

So then that was you know, so, like, that started the forty minute forty plus minute tweezers.   Right.   I wanna say 05/08/1993   might have had some one of the, you know,   I could be wrong on that. I feel like one of those shows on that run, on that Yeah. That week, that May   run   had   a alt you know, sort of a you know, the it's kinda like what we had at SPAC with Tweezer Ray Price where it's just going in and out and in and out and in and out.  

[01:01:37] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. And it's like Mike's you mentioned Mike's song.   Mike's song   just doesn't come they don't they don't bring they don't bring the   the second half as as the fans call it. The   the part two jam of Mike's, like, went away in f minor 95. Big f minor pentatonic jam,  

[01:01:58] Unknown:

really. Yeah. Is and it's just   like, those jams in 90 when, you know, machine gun tray was crushing those jams.  

[01:02:06] Unknown:

Yep.  

[01:02:07] Unknown:

I feel they just maybe, you know,   you grow up and you have different interests.   And it just became more,   again, more of like more of the story of the ghost, more of the whale call.   Right? More of the,   complimentary   sounds  

[01:02:28] Unknown:

that Yeah. The looping. Remember remember the the double boomerang?   Yeah. Like the loops that started after, you know, that started in '97, '98.  

[01:02:37] Unknown:

So like, I I think it's a cool debate, '95 versus '97 because they're totally different music. They're almost like two different bands   in a certain way.   So, like, there's really great contrast.   And Fall ninety four is incredible also.  

[01:02:54] Unknown:

Yes. And you pointed that out to me. I've actually gone back as a result of this podcast. I've listened to a lot of older fish material I I hadn't dug into. So   this this has been fun. Yeah. And if I see if I see Whitney Webb at a show, I'm gonna lose my fucking shit.  

[01:03:11] Unknown:

Oh, we're totally gonna see I mean, I think we're gonna see   So dude, I actually really do think these sphere shows are going to be, like,   really where the people come out.   We find out who's into fish right now. So, like, on Noster That's so good.   Dude, it was Gladstein who was sounding the alarm on the Sphere  

[01:03:33] Unknown:

announcement.  

[01:03:34] Unknown:

Are you serious? And, of course, everyone's yeah. Everyone's everyone's pinging me in these threads.   Right?  

[01:03:40] Unknown:

So good.  

[01:03:42] Unknown:

Yeah, dude. Like,  

[01:03:44] Unknown:

this is Of course, Alex. Of course, Alex is a fan. That makes so much sense. Him   and Goodwin.  

[01:03:51] Unknown:

Yeah. Why not?   You know? Exactly. I I feel like this is going to be very cool, and and so I would love to see an event at the Bitcoin conference.   I'm just gonna say at the very least, I think a fish related event at the Bitcoin conference is a must.   And I'm Craig listens to this.   Okay. It's a must. A fish related event in some way, and I'm I'm not just here for it. I will do I will do work. K? I'll do work on this for sure.  

[01:04:21] Unknown:

Sign me up.  

[01:04:22] Unknown:

We there's a lot of us who would do work on this. It has to happen. And then maybe they will come. Maybe if we build it, they will come.