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Fundamentals
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Jason
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Moonage Daydream, night 1: https://youtu.be/fqgY3oT7sDM
Strawberry Letter 23, night 2: https://youtu.be/5EMvsWqfn2U
Lawn Boy (aka Lawn Man), night 4:  https://youtu.be/ILK-02_1i40
Crosseyed and Painless, night 4: https://youtu.be/Mw6iltPJvBQ
Chalk Dust Torture, night 6: https://youtu.be/_DRImik3MBo
Mike's Song, night 10: https://www.youtube.com/live/Mr4XzT5AckE
Taste, night 10: https://youtu.be/QMy-DfiAfDM
Simple, night 13: https://www.youtube.com/live/yp47zr6WvDI

In this special episode, we dive into the legendary Baker's Dozen run by Phish at Madison Square Garden in 2017. Over a three-week period, Phish performed thirteen consecutive nights without repeating a single song, each night themed around a different donut flavor. This monumental event is memorialized with a banner in the rafters of MSG, symbolizing its significance in the band's history. We explore the spontaneity and creativity that defined these shows, including the absence of setlists and the unique role of a band member tasked with ensuring no song was repeated. The Baker's Dozen not only showcased Phish's musical prowess but also their ability to create a cultural phenomenon that captivated fans and left a lasting legacy.

We also reflect on the broader context of 2017, a time when Bitcoin was undergoing its own pivotal moments during the block size wars. The episode delves into the parallels between the energy and innovation of Phish's Baker's Dozen and the resilience of the Bitcoin community. We ponder the potential for future events that could unite these two worlds, imagining a scenario where Phish, inspired by Bitcoin, might once again push the boundaries of their creativity. Join us as we celebrate the excellence of Phish and the enduring impact of the Baker's Dozen, a testament to the band's ability to continually redefine live music experiences.

[00:01:03] Unknown:

Alright. Well, guess what? Guess what we are right now? We are back on the chain. That's right. Back on the chain. We're back, baby.   We are back, and this is we are here for a very special episode.   You know how there's like, Bitcoiners   have have special numbers.   They really have one special number, 21. It's almost gay, like, how special   that number   is. Yep. But, like, I guess, you know, 69 and 420 kinda get into the mix every once in a while as a special number for,   you know,   for Bitcoiners.   But there's a very special number   in Fishland.  

Is that a great is that a good term, Fishland?   Yeah. For this peep Fishlandia? I think it's fish Fishlandia. Yeah. It's called Fishland. Yeah.   And the number is 13.   And,   you know, it's so, like,   I I have so much to say   about   this event,   but the fact is,   okay, this is episode 13.   Yep. And 13 did not become a special number until   about 80% of the way to Fish's career.   No. So they had already accomplished everything anyone could accomplish, and the number 13 meant nothing.   It was just   like, okay,   a number they don't name a floor after in a hotel. Like, you know, it's usually associated with bad luck.   My birthday is on   a '13,   not the month. Obviously, the day. So  

[00:02:40] Unknown:

so we share that we share that characteristic.  

[00:02:43] Unknown:

That's right. Oh, yes. So this is really a special episode. So thirteen's always been a lucky yeah. It's always been a lucky number for me. Like, I've always consistent,   you know, my parents always considered a lucky number. Every you know, always lucky.  

[00:02:56] Unknown:

It's pretty interesting.  

[00:02:58] Unknown:

So but, like,   13 became a   13 is now the number. I mean,   so the event that we are here to talk about today   is   memorialized   in the rafters of Madison Square Garden,   where they retire,   you know, they hang championship banners and they retire players' jerseys.  

[00:03:19] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:03:19] Unknown:

And there's a banner that says fish thirteen, which is pretty remarkable.   And that is because   in 2017,   the dates   trying to think of the dates. Oh, did we go basically   July   through   August?   But over a three   week period of time,   Phish played thirteen consecutive nights   in Madison Square Garden,   and they didn't repeat a single song.   And,   I have so much to say about this.  

[00:04:00] Unknown:

You know, when I when I had this idea formulated in my head and I I kind of floated it to you, I was   I think I threw out the disclaimer that maybe   it would take more than one episode, but   at this point, we're thinking we can we can cover it all in one.  

[00:04:15] Unknown:

I explicitly didn't, like, I didn't prepare at all for this So that and and you know what? It's sort of like in Trey fashion because   legend has   it legend has it that Trey didn't write a single set list. Wow.   But legend has it that he   assigned somebody.   Basically, he had one person whose sole job   was to let him know if they've played a if they had played a song yet.   So in other words, he would say, oh, I'm ready to play Choctaw's Torture. Have we done that one yet?   And,   you know, in the first couple of shows, probably not   such an important person. But when you get into show   nine, show 10, show 11,   and you're running out of tunes,   you really might not remember.  

You know, you just might not remember. So,   it's pretty so Trey didn't prepare any set lists. They really just went off the cuff.   They had,   let's let's just get into the details a little bit about what this event was. Yep. Yep. This event was so special from top to bottom   and where it sits in history and what it meant.   I'll just say what it meant to me personally.  

[00:05:30] Unknown:

In the moment or after the fact? I'm curious. In the moment. In the moment. In the moment. In the moment. And I I went to the first two nights.  

[00:05:37] Unknown:

You went to you crushed me on this one. I know.  

[00:05:40] Unknown:

Yeah. I went to the first,   I went to seven, and   and I was there. I   Good for you, dude. I know. I think I was I think I was one, two, three,   four  

[00:05:56] Unknown:

four, five, six, seven was my was what I went through. Yeah. So I was the first two nights. I have a lot of memories. But, like, specifically,   the first night was the coconut donut.   The second night was the strawberry donut.   What they did was not   you know, up until   up until 2017 when this happened,   the doughnut   was not   as quintessentially   associated with fish, in my opinion. Right? It was not like the wasn't the official, like,   mascot of the band.   John Fishman, the drummer, wears a, you know, a mumu. He's a, you know, he has a collection of mumus that have donut,   like, designs on them,   but they really are just, like, they're the kind of donuts   you might draw in a calculus class.  



[00:06:51] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:06:52] Unknown:

They're not, like, they're not the kind of donuts you eat. Yeah. They were like TikTok. They were like TikTok dough. Yeah. They just looked like donuts. They looked like basically the kind yeah. I mean, they so, like, this brought   the donut   into,   like, into the fish   legend sphere. You know? You might say it retired the donut number   for fish in a certain way.  

[00:07:17] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because, you know, Fishman's mumu, which which you're referring to, which has   this o's or zeros on them, you know, was known as, like, the character zero mumu   before Yeah. I didn't know that. Thousand. And it was it was loosely. Like, not everybody. It wasn't like a fan creation for the fan creation. Yeah. Yeah. I got it. And me not being the biggest fan of that song, I I typically didn't didn't refer to it as such. But   ever since the baker's dozen,   it is the doughnut dress.  

[00:07:50] Unknown:

So   they do this thing. It's so it all comes together.   It all comes together.   They're   doughnut wasn't a big thing.   I'm think I'm going back in history. There's a lot of, like, Homer Simpson references  

[00:08:05] Unknown:

Sure. The secret language.  

[00:08:06] Unknown:

In fish history, the secret language,   the you you know, even more than that as I watch you drink out of your donut Tumblr.   But, again, right, so but this is like they basically just decided to just go all in on the donut theme. So they decided on 13 shows, called it the baker's dozen.   And now I'm gonna just describe this. Bitcoiners are like, what the what the hell did I tune into here? Yeah. What you tuned into is, like, truly, I think, an event that altered the course of humanity in my opinion, possibly. I you know, it's so good. It was so excellent   that, like, there's no way the universe didn't pay attention to this thing.  

And it's also absurd because it's about donuts.   So   so they they had 13 episodes, 13 episodes, 13 shows.   Each one was   had a donut theme,   and   they actually got a donut   company called Federal Donuts   Philly. To Philly zone. In Philly. Shout out and, the   shout out Bitcoin John.   The one night the night that, Alan Farrington came, we were in a different location, and there was a Federal Donuts across the street. And we were   eating donuts there, and I was telling everybody the story of the baker's dozen as we were as we were sitting there.   Did you go to that one? Yeah. You did. I remember I think it's the night. I   I wasn't there before the before the, Oh, it's not the night I met you, but I met this fish fan at that at that John. He was drunk as a buck,   and I thought I would definitely   see him once again ever, and I haven't. Okay.  

Yeah. Pretty funny.   So Federal Donuts was this local kinda upstart.   Nobody really knew what it was   until   they they showed up at the baker's dozen. But the re it turned out they were a   subsidiary   of   the kind of the giant   Zaha chain.   Okay. I was about to ask the entire audience if you're familiar with Zaha. But if you're a   if you're a Philly person, you know what Zahav is, and you're probably familiar with a lot of their franchises.   Zahav is this   I'm gonna intentionally call it a highly regarded,   Mediterranean,   maybe vegetarian   restaurant,   maybe. Right? Yeah.  

They have other franchises,   that have   other Middle Eastern type of offerings,   Dizengoff.   Goldie comes to mind. Goldie is an incredible falafel place. Mhmm. If anybody's in Philly and you find you stumble on a Goldie,   don't drink the milkshake because you'll never,   like,   you'll never recover from   from the dopamine rush you get from that. The $5 shake. It's it's unbelievable.   It's, like, basically   human   happiness in a cup. Right.   And then they like, one of my favorite places,   another subsidiary was,   god. What was it called? Fuck, dude. I can't believe it. I used to go to lunch there almost, like, almost   every week.  

Forget it. Whatever. Oh, there's a lay place called Laser Wolf.   Anyway,   they have non vegetarian   restaurants that they they serve meat at, which is That's kinda nice. And, anyhow, Federal Donuts,   you   know, everybody knew who Sahav was.   They were really well known. In Philly, like, there's, like, a restaurant culture in Philly where there's a couple of guys that everybody knows everybody knows who they are. Like, everybody knows Vetri.   Everybody knows Steven Starr and, like, all of these you know, everybody knows, like, those big names, and   Zahav is on that list. But nobody knew that   Federal Donuts was part of Zahav. Nobody even really knew what Federal Donuts was.  

All I knew is that there was this really weird thing happening where Fish did something they never did before, which was scheduled this thirteen night run. I mean, this is insane.   Right?   Insane. And so nobody I I actually don't think anybody was really tracking the details   of what was going on and and didn't realize what was happening until it actually happened. Right. But,   they got this place called Federal Donuts   to,   make the theme donut and make, like, something like   a couple of thousand for the first thousand. Yep. For the first people who came in.   Legend has it,   there are people that actually ate these donuts.  

I didn't I was not one of them, and I don't recall meeting anyone who got to eat a donut, but, like, legend has it There were picks.   Legend legend has it.   So,   so they have every night's a different donut.   And in, you know, classic fish fashion,   every night there are at least a couple of songs that   are associated with the donut of choice.   For example,   for example, The Second Night, which, I mean, don't wanna I don't wanna spoil it because that's to me one of the most one of the most significant moments of this whole run-in my in my opinion is the night. Night two. Yeah. Was night two, it's like when everybody realized, holy shit. This is this is actually happening. Like, this is, like, really fucking   this is really fucking happening. So I will,   so Cinnamon Donut night. Right? That is night seven, I think, I wanna say. So Okay. They so you would have heard, like, the song Cinnamon Girl by Neil Young, which is a song Fish has covered in the past. So, like, kinda little shticky,   things like that.  

But   it was a lot of fun.   And,   god, I don't like, I didn't prepare. So I don't know which Yeah. I don't know which, like, thing that I loved about it I wanna get into first. I guess before before I get into any of that, the setup on the donuts   right?   Here, let let me read the donut nights real quick. Okay. K? Yep.   Okay. Night one, coconut. Night two, strawberry.   Night three, red velvet.   Night four,   jam filled.   Night five,   powdered.   Night six,   double chocolate.   They opened that show with Chocolate Rain, which at the time was, like, the YouTube meme king, right? It's just so fucking cool. It was perfect.   Night seven, cinnamon.  

Night eight, Jimmy's, which I'm gonna get into a story about about that.   And we all talked about Jimmy last week. I think that was the night we got the harpooner. Right? Mhmm. The Jimmy's donut. Anyway Of course. Yeah. I think everybody called that one. Yeah.   Night, I already lost count.   Night nine? Nine.   Maple,   yummy.   Can you Night 10. Night 10, holes.   The real you know, you can see they're reaching. Night 11, lemon.   Night 12,   Boston cream,   put a pin in that one. Yep. And night 13,   glazed.   Mhmm. Which is so perfect to describe how everybody felt. The you know, the memes were so great. Like, I've,   you know, I never   I've never really been too much of a fan of the memes that come out of the fish community.  

Mhmm. Except for, like,   there's ones that really hit on certain truths.   And immediately, there were these, like, night one versus night 13 memes   where, like, night one, you you would be, like, you know, looking kinda   kinda, you know, something that looks kinda normal in, like, night 13.   Yeah. And then, like, night 13, there'd be a picture of just, you   know, just skeletons and The shell. You know?   So,   real quick, an aside,   this is more a legend.   Mhmm. Maybe not true, maybe true, but legend has it   that this entire event   was conjured   twenty five years prior   in a, just a joking   conversation   where,   possibly between Trey and Paige.  

Correct me if you have better details on this. No. That sounds right. But the idea was they wanted an excuse. This was, like, in, like, 1992   or something somewhere around there. And they said, wouldn't it be funny if we had an excuse   to do some, like, mashup where we can put, like, some kind of donut show where we can play Boston covers and cream covers?   And, by the way, for Bitcoiners, Boston is a band.   Mhmm. And Cream is a band. I have to I have to I have to specify that. But, like, these   I'm gonna patronize you guys even more. Like, Boston was probably the biggest arena rock band of its age. Yeah. And Trey explicitly  

[00:17:20] Unknown:

calls out in one of the docs, I think it was, Bittersweet Motel that, like, Boston was an influence on him. Well, for fucking sure. And just  

[00:17:29] Unknown:

just so you guys know and so you knew Jason. You may not know this. But, like,   Boston's   Guitar Player,   Tom Scholes, who's,   you know, arguably the leader of the band. He was the manager of the band. Are you familiar with the name Tom Scholes? Like, he was like Oh, yeah. I'm familiar. Yeah. And so you're aware that he, like, invented his own pedals. Like, he invented certain of his own he was an MIT,  

[00:17:52] Unknown:

Yeah. These guys were all, like, MDs, PhDs. Right? Well, he he was an MIT engineer,  

[00:17:59] Unknown:

and he had come up with his own pedal   that gave   that really gave Boston   a lot of this signature sound that they had.   And,   so Trey was deeply inspired by that.   Not only that, but I mean His tone. His tone. Yeah. His tone, but also, I mean, Boston is like basic rock hooks Oh my god. To the goddamn nth degree.  

[00:18:22] Unknown:

When they were big, I mean, they had so many all the songs were just hits, all of them, that one album. You can go back to you can go back to 1994  

[00:18:30] Unknown:

during their bluegrass phase.   And here so in 1994,   FISH was,   they were committed   they were committed to bluegrass. Yep. And they were learning under the tutelage of the reverend reverend Jeff Mosher.   And,   Bela Fleck would come and sit in on shows and they were really committed and they would play about three or four songs a night.   And I want to say this was a Bela Fleck show. This was, Vanderbilt University,   Nashville.   Yep. And I I wanna say 10/1894   opened with foreplay a long time   foreplay a long time, but it's bluegrass version. Total banjo, you know. Yeah.   So so this is all Boston shit. I mean, they've been obsessed with Boston for a while. And then Cream, as you guys know,   Eric Clapton,   Trio,   White Room,   Sunshine of Your Love, like, you know, iconic classics.  

So the Boston Cream Donut, as you might imagine,   was responsible for one of the great highlights of this run.   And  

[00:19:37] Unknown:

I don't know if I'm gonna use it. I I don't know. I mean, maybe I will. Yeah. Yeah. Well I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to show it to you. Yeah. Let's not tease out what we're gonna where we're gonna run the show show out with. But,   if you if you allow me, you mentioned Bala Fleck, and I just I wrote down a quote a couple weeks ago   as I've been,   revisiting   Phish content via YouTube for the most part.   The algorithm fed me a, Bala Fleck interview.   And he had a quote that said   I'm paraphrasing now.   Some music   can only arrive at through composition,   and some music you can only arrive at through improvisation.  

And I just thought it was really, really relevant to to the way Fish plays.  

[00:20:21] Unknown:

We've touched on that here. It's no accident that they were so close,   so closely related to each other and so close with each other.   I loved Baloflac back then. Yep. The Flecktones.   Me too. Absolutely. Yeah.   So this   so so it all culminates   on   it all culminates on night 12   with the Boston Green Show.  

[00:20:50] Unknown:

And they do this and they do the mash up. And if I remember, I don't think people predicted the mash up. That wasn't   mash ups were hot too at the time. They were kind of like a trend.  

[00:21:01] Unknown:

I, so I did,   this show was in 2017. I did Humphrey's Halloween in 2015.   Milwaukee,   Riverside Theater, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Great   great room, like, great venue.   And Humphreys had just released this weird   kinda album called Zonkey.   Yep. And it was a it was a bunch of mash it was mash ups and they did a bunch of them.   Very, very, very well done. And it's kind of thing only a tight band could do. Like, you know, you need a tight band.   You're right. I forgot that mashups were big. So the last detail I want everyone to know here,   and this is part of the fun, I guess. It was so cool that they didn't we didn't know what the donut was until that morning.  

And so   every morning, I mean, I like, you gotta understand.   By the time 02/2017   rolled around,   there really wasn't much that fit it was going to really excite Phish fans.  

[00:22:00] Unknown:

You know what I mean? Yeah. We talked about this, in a previous episode related to just 02/2017  

[00:22:05] Unknown:

in general. We go to our shows. They're great. I was at Halloween on in 2016. It was incredible. But not like,   you know, not like   the nineties   where every day you're checking an Internet for setlist and you're losing your mind over what you're seeing. You're like, What? You know, it's, I mean,   it's not easy at this point. At this point, we're all kinda jaded veterans.  

[00:22:29] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:22:30] Unknown:

And,   you know, I don't remember what night it started.   Maybe it was the third or fourth night.   But, like, I'd be waking up the next morning checking social media for that what the hell the doughnut was. And I was so freaking   psyched and pumped. And, like, I just couldn't believe how psyched and pumped I was. I'm like, I haven't felt this way. It's such a long time. I can't believe that this band like, I was like, this is a stage of my life where I'm kinda begging the band to start sucking so I can just move on.   You know?  

Like, it's getting embarrassing.   Like, come on. Like, everyone's like, you still see that band? Yeah. Really still doing that? I'm like, you know, they they won't let me go. They just won't let me go. Yep.   And,   you know, you're just, like, begging them almost for an excuse. And then they it's just like and then the other thing I want   people to understand   was the is that, you know, we talked about I think it was last week. We talked about their their experience after Big Cypress   Yes. Mhmm. Which is feeling like they were done and couldn't they couldn't talk about it. Work. Yeah. Yeah. I   I I had so I had that feeling for goddamn sure. Like, I   I I remember just talking to my friends saying,   well, this   will not be topped.  

Mhmm. Whatever fear we might have had   about, you know, hitting a peak, like, we've hit it.   Yeah. And that's like I had to write I had to write this essay about Caswell Fox because, like,   Caswell Fox in 2018 was so significant   because   it was such a foregone conclusion after the baker's dozen that nothing they would never taught themselves ever again. Yep. It was it was just like impossible. It's just absolutely impossible. Like like, if if here's the equivalent. Like, dude, Bitcoin, you were to wake up tomorrow, and Bitcoin's a $3,000,000   coin. Yeah.  

The first thing you would say to yourself is, like, well, this is never gonna happen again. This is this is an aberration.   Right? Right. We've seen like, now I'm like, I wasn't expecting to see this top in my life like this, but, like,   there's no way around it.   Yeah. And there like, the baker doesn't. There was just no way around the peak and how it was just so much fun. Yep. There was a great   the adventure.   And, you know, just so you guys know, like,   in order to do 250   some odd songs,   they knew they were gonna have to take song they knew they were gonna have to take many of their songs to another level.   Mhmm. And they took the challenge.  

And we just you know, so over 13 shows,   we everyone was just glued in. Like, I I don't remember like, I don't ever remember a time of fish where it was like that for even for a three week period.  

[00:25:12] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right. And,   you know, you point to, like, this idea of,   getting a little stale. Even for we're just so happy they were back. You know? There was still   I I feel like starting to hit a groove.   Yeah. It was, you know, the first five years   since return from returning in 2019, everybody was just happy they were back. And they and they did, you know, Super Bowl Festival. They did Magna Ball, I think, in the year the year prior to to   the baker's dozen. And that's good. And it was it was good.  

[00:25:44] Unknown:

And but it was great. Now Magna Ball. See, Magna Ball to me   represented that they had us that because they were back and they they were back and they really hit they hit a level.  

[00:25:56] Unknown:

Yeah. I think that one had   everyone had was waiting for that moment, at least for on a personal level that they felt invigorated   again by Fig. Up until then, it was kinda like, well, they're get they're they're getting reactivated and playing together.  

[00:26:11] Unknown:

And I tend to be on the political side. For people who don't know too. So Phish,   in addition to these   they they they're notorious for putting on their own events and their own festivals,   and they're very good at it. Many would say they invented the modern day music festival.   That's an episode we may wanna do one day. Yeah. But,   you know, the they did it in a lot in the nineties.   We talked about the IT Festival, Coventry, the final one that was, you know, horrible. But, like, basically, Bonnaroo   was a creation   Bonnaroo was creation of Phish being on hiatus and their management team being available to   with their know how to build a festival that was wanted.  

And then when Phish came back, they did their own festivals again.   So we talked about Super Bowl, Magna Ball. We also talked about Curveball, which is the festival that didn't happen. Yes, ma'am. And that was mentioned to them.   So right after the baker's does yeah. Right after the baker's dozen in 2017,   yeah, they have this experience with curve ball. Everyone said don't call it curve ball.   And so they were all in Watkins Glen Race Way. Watkins Glen became the place. And, you know, Fish was starting to have some epic   moments now that were showing people that we're back. But so this sort of like progression of   Magna Ball and then Baker's Dozen. And, you know, the weird thing about the Baker's Dozen was they they did a tour. It was part of the summer tour where they did about three or four shows   prior to the thirteen night run.  

I wanna say they did a night in Dayton, Ohio, in Pittsburgh.  

[00:27:50] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. It was mid to cold. Nobody remembers those shows at all. I don't remember them all.  

[00:27:55] Unknown:

In fact, by the time the, Boston cream donut came around, nobody remembered coconut. Nobody remembered anything that happened that night.   Right?   So,   so a couple of things that are just at   the top of my head. I I mentioned the strawberry donut night night too, and   I felt like there was this moment   where   it was when they played strawberry letter 23,   strawberry letter 23, song I'd never heard of. But, like, it was   it was just a moment where everyone in the building at the same time   just had this realization, like, dude, this is gonna be, like, insane.   This whole thing like, this is really a thing.  

You know, they're really going all in on this donut thing, and Yeah. They're gonna  

[00:28:42] Unknown:

this is classic Phish. This is like everything we like, this is just like everything we ever clamored for from this band. Yeah. Because, you know, you know, Phish was always known even the even the people that were just aware of Phish, not necessarily fans, is that they they played a lot of covers.   And what the what the bakers does and did and what people realized on night two,   which by the way,   strawberry litter 23 you know, I told the story about my first show, and my friend called the opener   of the of the show.   Strawberry litter 23 was my was my genius call that I I, you know, announced to my friends in the afternoon. And See. Very  

[00:29:20] Unknown:

and You have to be outside the Phish echo chamber to have been familiar with that song. Yes. Most and and then they played it, and everyone was, like, amazed. But, anyway,  

[00:29:30] Unknown:

what it what the bakers dozen did is it forced Phish to broaden their,   I don't know, the the type of song that they might consider covering. So they they Absolutely. Some songs that were just you would never expect Phish to cover, and this was one of them.  

[00:29:45] Unknown:

So let's talk about the covers for one second too.   Only because of the timing of all this.   I don't remember the year this happened, but there was a there was a fake beef, but we didn't know it was fake at the time.   But there was a beef with Billy Joel   that might have been fake.   And it stems   from and I wanna say this is something like 2014, '20 '15 where Billy supposedly, the story goes and by the way, Billy Joel has a rafter has a Billy Joel has a banner that says something like has an absurd number for all the time. It's the stupidest rafter in in the whole venue.   Yeah. It's true. It's like all the I mean, Fish has played Fish has played there   probably close to a hundred times at this point. Right? No. Billy has to be officially.  

So Billy Joel supposedly here's the here's the legend. The legend of Billy Joel is that he goes to,   MSG and says, I wanna play New Year's Eve   this year, and they're like, sorry, buddy, but Fish has this locked down for a long time.  

[00:30:49] Unknown:

And supposedly, his respond are you familiar with this? You're just holding yourself back? I I'm not familiar with the details. Okay. But Okay. I have my own I have my own beef with Billy Joel.  

[00:30:58] Unknown:

Okay. Good. So so supposedly,   Billy Joel's response   was really, like, who helped? That that cover band?   That was supposedly the response was, like, referring to them as a cover band. And I so I wanna say this is, like, 2013   because this really popped up on,   on the Twitters   during their big, thirtieth anniversary.   You know? Big thirty. And they they they did play in American Airlines arena that year.   So then, you know, I think it was the next year that this is   was a thing.   And, well, I remember I want to say this was a   2014   tour.  

It was either 14 or 15 that summer, but they played like   seven or eight shows that summer without playing a cockroach.  

[00:31:43] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:31:44] Unknown:

And it it was like it felt like a clear statement to Billy Joel. Like, fuck you, Billy Joel. Yep.   And,   which I find hilarious now.   So, well, so   long story short,   the Baker's doesn't. Like, they had already then had to get they got over all that.   And now they know they're playing for a banner and they're after. They're gonna they're basically   by the way, Harry Styles has a banner in Madison Square Art now too, which is kinda nice. I don't understand it. But, like valued. It has been debased. You know?   The the basement of no. You know? And I'm sure on inflation.   Dude, Bernard King does not have his number retired,   and he was a great knick. That's that's a travesty. I didn't know that. That that still means something.  

Okay.   That still means something, but,   regardless, so   they got this all out of their system before they did this Baker's dozen because they as you say, they needed to really dig deep into their bag   of covers that they were willing to do.   Because   no band has 250   songs ready to go. Mhmm.  

[00:32:55] Unknown:

Right? That they can that that have been rehearsed and that are  

[00:32:59] Unknown:

That oh, no. I mean, no. That they're gonna just do in their big their big night at Madison Square Garden.  

[00:33:05] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:33:06] Unknown:

The fact that Phish is, like, really at the point in their their career where they're, well, they're ready to toy around   on stage at MSG.  

[00:33:14] Unknown:

Exactly.   It is yeah. It's just That was the tipping point. And and, you know, you say that,   the prior year was your   the Magna Ball was your was your was your tipping point. For me, it's significant. It was   very poignantly Baker's dozen is what tipped me into that. Wow. Anything could happen again.  

[00:33:34] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I so I would say Magna Ball just in terms of, like, the level of jamming and the ease, like, the ease of jamming. Just something for me clicked. Like, oh, they are really   like, we I was always assessing, like, was it ever has this been worthwhile? Has this   experience of them coming back in 02/2009? Because,   you know, living through o four as have we talked about here at Nauseum, it was a foregone conclusion that they were gone. Mhmm.   And so when they did I mean, I remember saying I don't want them to come back because they're it was so bad. Like, they wanted to be gone so badly   that I was like, no. I I have no desire for them to   violate   themselves   Yeah. And come back just to do it.  

And so when they did come back o nine,   and then you go through you know, I think you had some moments in 2012,   and then you had the   Halloween.   I forgot. Was that '20 Yeah. That was 2013?  

[00:34:35] Unknown:

'20 '10 was Littlefee.  

[00:34:37] Unknown:

I think it was 2013 where they where they played what album was it? 2013 was they played the Flago album. They called it the wings. We called it the wingsuit set because that was the what the playbill said, and that was and that so Yeah. That was the whole countdown. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I disagree. Okay. I mean, I That's another one that it polarized. That was actually I'll let you finish your thoughts. Fans. Yeah. I'll let you finish your thoughts. Sorry. So the to me, there were these little moments   where that tour was incredible,   but it wasn't like it was incredible, but it wasn't like they hadn't yet ascended to where they were,   like, what who they were before they left was a groundbreaking  

[00:35:15] Unknown:

band. And that's what I was that's my sentiment as well.  

[00:35:19] Unknown:

So, you know, whereas,   you know, they hadn't had a moment to me that would have talked them out of   their big Cypress peak sitting on their sofa right afterwards. Right? Mhmm.   Hearing hearing the Magna Ball sets,   something changed. Like and I think there was a dicks maybe in 2014   that started to do this. It was starting to Dick's, by the way, is Dick's sport   Bitcoiners. Dick's Sporting Guzzarena.  

[00:35:46] Unknown:

Fish loves  

[00:35:48] Unknown:

Dick's. They added it. They love Dick's. And they added they they they started a tradition   of playing Labor Day weekend there three nights three nights. Right? Typically the close of the tour.   Yes.   But then yeah. You're right. So, like, then you we come into this Baker's Dozen.   And maybe it's just yeah. Like, yeah. There's this anything can happen   sense,   and they   just they had to stretch like crazy.   Like, to me, this was them   just back as, like, as kids taking on just a giant. Child. Musically, honestly, I don't think there's a   that I I I don't think there's, like, a precedent   for what for what they tried to do. I mean, maybe the first time they did a four night run and, like, maybe the first time they you know, where they decided they weren't gonna repeat a song in the four nights.  

Mhmm. I just don't know if there was anything that that you could say stretched them so   so tremendously.   Yeah. And these are adults now. Right? Yep.  

[00:36:53] Unknown:

Yeah. And and there's something about the fact that for me, it was like   I don't inversion is not the right word,   but there is this weird dichotomy.   Like like you just pointed out, the four night run, which was I think they first did at the Garden. So this the the whole thing around MSG in New York for me, like, there were some things that were, like, polar opposite. Like, one was the fact that   typically when they did these runs at the garden, it was around New Year's. So the weather was cold and could be really cold sometimes.   And Baker's Dozen was right in the middle of summer and it was warm.  

So it was like, it was just this different Yeah. Everything about it. What do I wear? It felt different. To  

[00:37:34] Unknown:

a to a show at m again, I'm   I'm used to bringing   bundles of layers to MSG.  

[00:37:41] Unknown:

Right.   Right?   And I think they had only done one Mexico at that point. They had just done a Mexico that into 16.  

[00:37:49] Unknown:

So And, by the way, speaking of, like, the weather,   I think it was night two where it poured like   the dickens.   I remember it wasn't perfect. You're right. I I remember   because   my friend and I my friend   who is, like, my   main show buddy,   and we went to high school together, and there was a kid   who we went to high school with who we ran into at the show. And he was like, oh, let's meet at some it was some Irish pub in 30 Fourth Street.   Mhmm. It is must it's it was raining so hard that this place felt like it was   it felt like it was miles away.  

Like, we can hear like, we were, like, about leaving the venue, and we just knew how like, you know, when you're going through the stairwell   Yeah. And you just feel the rain.   Yep. And even though you're indoors, you know, like, shit, dude. I can't believe I'm gonna be I'm gonna, like, be forced to be out there in about three minutes.  

[00:38:46] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:38:48] Unknown:

And, yeah, it's just again, strange in the hot weather.   You know, just wanna it's it's funny how you remember these things. You just, you know.   Yeah. The little details and things that You know, this thing was so special. So and let me make one more point.   I don't know if this is necessary or not, but, the donuts   the donuts of federal donuts   are of a particular style.   The so, like, at Dunkin' Donuts, I think you would call them   non yeast leavened donuts   Mhmm. Or, like, flaky donuts.  

[00:39:23] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:39:24] Unknown:

Federal donuts are yeast leavened donuts or cakey   donuts.   More cakey. They're more like cake. Yeah. They weigh about a pound.   Just wanted to point that out. That's all. Just to give you another just a mental picture. So oh, and Bob and then the so   the proprietor of Federal Donuts was a gigantic Phish fan.   Right. That was the tie in. Yep. And she didn't know like, so she didn't know Phish was gonna be calling them   with a massive project   that was gonna be associated with the band.   So that was kinda cool. And it was cool to be in Philly afterwards. When I was in Philly afterwards, I remember Federal Donuts   featuring the fish donuts.  



[00:40:07] Unknown:

Yeah. And,  

[00:40:08] Unknown:

I remember going in, bringing in boxes of them for my coworkers.   And I got to try all the donuts except the jam fill.   They never they never redid the jam the jam filled donut. It? Okay. Yeah.  

[00:40:22] Unknown:

Yeah. We're very cool. And and, you know, I'll point out that one last thing on the donut was,   and I you can speak to this because you said   I think this is on the cover of a lot of math books.   This this this Definitely a topology.  

[00:40:37] Unknown:

In topology, what you see.  

[00:40:40] Unknown:

But, Trey, you know and it might have been during   the Jimmy's the Jimmy's night. I would assume it was the Jimmy's night because the only way he would tell the story would be in the context of Harpua, where he explains to the crowd   that the reason why the doughnut is important is because it's actually the shape of the universe,   and everything is a doughnut.   And, you know,   so ingrained,   the legend   goes.  

[00:41:08] Unknown:

Yeah. So, of course, the baker's dozen got a harpua,   and   it got a story a narrated story  

[00:41:17] Unknown:

about doughnuts. About doughnuts. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so good.  

[00:41:22] Unknown:

Yeah. She's pretty great.  

[00:41:24] Unknown:

So so I made a list of of what I considered to be, like, from a music standpoint,   just things that were memorable to me, if you'll indulge me. Yeah. Go ahead.   You know, I think when we did the Chalk Dust episode, we mentioned and this is really for anyone listening if they wanna go check out some stuff on on things like YouTube.  

[00:41:46] Unknown:

Yeah. Oh, before you do this, may I ask you a question? Yeah. Yeah. Have you so, like, have you, like, since the event,   decided to   listen straight through?   No.   Just curious.   I have. I I so when I I was,   there was a period in the end of twenty nineteen where I was driving   into Philly every day for work, like, seven days a week.   That's a brutal drive, as you know.   So I and I decided I was going to   basically do an academic deep dive into all 13 of these shows. That's great.   Yeah. Pretty cool. So I I did go through that experience,   but I don't think I finished it.  

Oh. For some reason, like, the glaze the glaze night really is pretty glazed. Like, I don't, like   you know? People I don't really have a strong recollection. Yeah. Yeah. People were tired, man, by the end, for sure.  

[00:42:40] Unknown:

I mean, there are many people who did all thirteen nights. I know I know I know quite a few. I know a couple. Yeah. I have one friend in particular that's, called me today because I might not I might not do Mexico this year, and and he's pissed. Because I usually stay with him because he's been single, and my wife would never go.   Not that she doesn't like fish. She just knows that it's just it's just a lot of fish, and it's just fish people. And it would be a little difficult. Fish   did.   So, again, going through I did some listening last night, actually.   I forgot   how freaking good the moon age daydream was.  

Oh my god. It was and that was and that was night one.  

[00:43:20] Unknown:

So can I just say something real quick? Yeah.   Okay. So the last show I was at prior to this show   was the 2016.   Yeah.  

[00:43:32] Unknown:

That's great.  

[00:43:33] Unknown:

I don't I've told you before, I'm a sucker for   chromatic scales   or chromatic progressions, and, like, Moonage Daydream is, like, the classic.   There's I mean, and it just   Mhmm.   You know, it has that declining   progression, and it is so it it fucking just slaps so fucking hard. And Yep. I must tell   you,   the moon age daydream then at the dozen one of the musical   highlights of my life have ever gone to shows. %.  

[00:44:05] Unknown:

Because they they when they do the costume set, again, for any any in the audience that then aren't super familiar,   they play it pretty much note for note. There it's a musical costume. They are trying to   give the audience the whatever the   the the artist that they're covering is, like, that experience. Yeah. They don't, like, try to make it their own. They do their they they try to do it justice. And if I'm not mistaken, this is the first time they played it since Halloween, and they they jammed it so heavy and so hard.   It was just so rocking. And and I mean, the place was The outro.  



[00:44:42] Unknown:

What's that? That might have to be the outro.  

[00:44:45] Unknown:

It might have to be. That's why I wanted to go through this list. And to remind me I'm gonna say that about every fucking song you name.  

[00:44:52] Unknown:

I'm such a fucking, like, a I'm like a puppy dog about the whole thing. Really, the moon age daydream and the Boston cream, those are the highlights of the line. Me too. That's without a doubt. There was But I was there. I mean, I was there for the moon age daydream, and it was so incredible.   I, you know, I had, again, not to interrupt you, but when I finally heard when I finally heard the Boston cream,   I mean, I had a genuinely emotional reaction   Yeah. To it. Like, I was, like, almost, like, seized.   I was, like, seized emotionally. I almost couldn't believe what I was hearing. You know? Yeah. That's when I hear   Trey go into, and I see my Mary and walking away. I for some something like, when I heard him go into that in his voice   at that time,   it really did something to me. Yeah. Because they had Just listening to it on  

[00:45:41] Unknown:

Boston. At least that's how I'm aware of. I don't think they ever covered Boston. So that was the first they had probably they had  

[00:45:46] Unknown:

they had in the bluegrass. Okay. In the bluegrass. Blue oh, okay.  

[00:45:51] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm not familiar with all the song titles as usual. But, so going going through my list, night two, strawberry letter 23, which we already talked about, the chalk dust, which we which we referenced.   Night four   was the lawn boy, and I don't know if that requires any any color from your perspective.  

[00:46:10] Unknown:

Well, I mean,   you know, maybe just academically   for   the Bitcoiners who   listen to this,   Lawn Boy is a three minute   song   that is a like a it's like a lounge   jazz standard   that Paige usually   stands up, leaves the keyboard,   and walks   in front of the crowd, addresses the crowd, and it, like, croons   usually just croons the song. And then it's a three minute   straightaway,   nothing to it.   And   on Jam Field Night,   they decided to turn Lawn Boy into, like, a thirty plus minute   extravaganza.   Yep. And so and all of these memes came out of it like these you see stickers on cars. So the next year, you'd see stickers on cars that say, is it still lawn boy?   Yep. That was Lawn man for a while. Yeah. Lawn Man's my favorite one.  

That's so good. So yeah. I mean, it's just like and that's again, like, you can just when you thought, like you know, night two, everybody accepted how special this was gonna be, but then they kept raising the bar.  

[00:47:25] Unknown:

It's true.  

[00:47:26] Unknown:

Progressive. Lawn Boy Lawn Boy really   I mean, that's the cut probably the thing people will look back on as   the most,   you know, the most insanely   surprising thing that happened.  

[00:47:39] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of payoff there.  

[00:47:42] Unknown:

Thirty plus minutes of of Lawn Boy is that's I mean, you know, if you go to the hundreds of times they played it, I don't know what it adds up to, but it's,   you know, it's   like, they've never really done anything   where it was more than a like a just a just a filler song between,   you know,   between two other songs usually.  

[00:48:03] Unknown:

Yeah.   Other stuff I have here on night four was the cross item painless was really good. Epic.   I think it was, like, approaching thirty minutes, if I'm not mistaken.  

[00:48:16] Unknown:

Yep. I see thirty three zero seven.  

[00:48:20] Unknown:

Yeah. Wow. Wow.   Oh, so you have the cell list in front of you? Yeah.  

[00:48:26] Unknown:

And and and by the way, it should be noted. So Lawn Boy came in at thirty o two.   Every song in that first set was over ten minutes long. And,   they also encored with lawn boy,   which is just that's so   classic fish. I should just say personal.   So in the set set two, they play a seven minute end of session.   Oh, wow. End of session is like a I'm not aware of that song ever being played live  

[00:48:57] Unknown:

other than the baker's dozen. Yeah. I don't think so. I think you're right on that.   And then I don't know what night, but I took note of this. The the mic song,   they did a they did a I think it was night 10, but they did the mics   with   and it might have been the first, might have been the second time, like, since one point o or   I forget when they stopped doing kind of the the type two or the second section of mics after the   chord progression that is reminiscent of, Rush.  

[00:49:29] Unknown:

You know what I'm talking about? Yes. I do. I do. So, I mean, it's an f sharp minor.   Yeah. Like   so I'm looking at the set list now. We're talking,   the holes.   We're talking a night night   night Night 10. 10. Night 10 holes. Right?   The show opens with,   way down in the hole, which was the theme song of the wire, but they did the Tom Waits version, which is season one of The Wire. We Yeah. Ever So good. We're all into we're all into The Wire. But,   oh, no. Was it the Tom Waits version or was it the,   who's the guy that was on the show? He was on the he was a well known,   kind of a well known guitar player, singer songwriter.  

I forgot his name, but he was   he was becoming well known in his day. And he he I think season five was his version. Was his version. Yeah. Forgot his name. I'm just really   but I'm not sure which one. Yeah. I thought they They credit Tom Waits. Yeah.   I don't think I think it was the other version. I think it was the the season five version. Okay. Okay.  

[00:50:40] Unknown:

Probably more  

[00:50:43] Unknown:

A little bit. So, but anyway, so that that was their big homage   to Holes because I'm not sure. I mean, I see buried then they do buried alive,   kill devil falls.   And then they did the mics in the o holy night into That net yeah. That's right. So it's so Mike's song goes into and it's a twenty two minute mic song, goes into o holy night into an eighteen minute taste. The taste is ridiculous too. It really is.   It's great. I mean and then I mean, what a set. Right? That goes into an eleven minute wingsuit,   which is a terrific landing spot for any long jam.  

And then sneaking Sally through the alley, and then week then they end it with week a pug. Yeah. That's like you're they gotta play week apart.   So that's quite a Mike's groove right there. Those six. And that's night 10. You know, out of 13, they're still, like, bringing the encore.   By the way, the encore is a day in the life by The Beatles. That's great.   And there's a big holes reference in there. Right now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall. Yeah.  

[00:51:44] Unknown:

Right? Yeah. Nobody nobody nobody predicted that. Everybody missed that one.  

[00:51:49] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely.   It's so good. It's just so good. I know. It's just like, even looking back on it now, I just can't believe they pulled this off. I can't believe it. Yeah. I still can't believe it. Yep.  

[00:52:02] Unknown:

Okay. And, you know, since then, I feel like it's been up into the right. The whole ever since   Yeah, dude. You know, you could say maybe it was a little bit earlier than Baker's Dozen, but for me, it's just up until the right. Dude, so just look at the songbook. Look at the look at the crop of new songs that come out every year. I know.   I've seen a gun.  

[00:52:22] Unknown:

But after so after Baker after Baker's Dozen Oh, okay. I believe that's when we got, like, Set Your Soul Free   and, like, we started to get some real   Yeah. Super bangers.  

[00:52:34] Unknown:

Soul planet. Like, things that songs that initially for me because they were   and I would love your take on this because I feel like like, things like soul planet or set your soul free were, like,   there's such, like,   stereotypical,   like, hippie messages.   Like,  

[00:52:53] Unknown:

I The ocean is love. I was actually listening to Soul Planet because I was looking somebody somebody was trolling me with ocean and the ocean pool and all this stuff, and I wanted to, like Just give me love. It's one of the thing. I I love, like, throwing fish songs out there because people don't know what the hell like, whenever I'm being trolled. So there's people, like, what the hell is this? You know? Yeah. Love and light.   But, yeah, I just felt like Gone. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna say, like They graduated though out of those. They said it's it's like then they graduated out of that until, like, nine   until songs like Monsters.  



[00:53:23] Unknown:

Yeah. Or like The Well.  

[00:53:25] Unknown:

Yes.   Yeah. Where, like   yeah. It's wild.   Yeah. And to the point where I mean, it feels like an eternity, though, and set your soul free was, like, a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And that was what They could just continue to put these   I call them bangers. I I think they are. Like, they're really, like, they are really attitude filled   new. It's just like new music.  

[00:53:48] Unknown:

Yeah. You know? So so I I was just I was curious what you think because   I have a good friend. His name is Jim.  

[00:53:56] Unknown:

He won't mind me. I got a dog. His name is Jim.  

[00:53:59] Unknown:

And he's the tallest guy in our crew and his his job in the crew. One of his jobs   is he always wears a red cap, a baseball cap, whether it's the Sixers or the Phillies, but it's always red. So if you're lost and you can't find us,  

[00:54:14] Unknown:

you have a you have a you have a beacon that isn't like an LED light or something stupid. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Way Jim Jim He's like the uncle Jim. He's he's your your uncle Jim.  

[00:54:24] Unknown:

He's he's the uncle Jim. And Yeah. When Soul Planet when all those songs were coming   were were coming to fruition and we're seeing them live,   and they would always you know, they they play their new material more frequently than older material typically if assuming they enjoy it.  

[00:54:39] Unknown:

So we're hearing these songs a lot. Were you at Hershey Park? Were you at Hershey for that were you at Hershey for the Soul Planet? I def I, yeah. I think I've been to every Hershey show since then. I was not into Soul Planet too much, and I knew they did the New Year's thing with it, but then Hershey was, like, kind of blew my doors off. You turned around. Yeah. So I just thought, like, it was like corn. Like, I thought the lyrics were corny  

[00:55:01] Unknown:

and my friend Jim was like, dude, he's like, you're, you're looking at it all wrong.   He's like, these songs are great. He's like, and in that moment I was like, oh, so is maybe Trish like, Trey, like kind of kind of Trish. Is Trey like making   poking fun at   himself at this at the at the audience a little bit of like, you know what I mean? Like, I felt like it was so much, like, satire to to, like, a really slight degree these Kind of. But then you live in life. Didn't you hear a song like yeah.  

[00:55:28] Unknown:

Well,   yeah. Look. So Trey had his dad rock phase,   and some of those songs are quite excellent. Right? The dad rock phase, we all know these songs, but the the best versions of those songs are like Everything's Right,   Blaze On.   You know, just songs that are uplifting and have positive messages. You know? Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, you know, look. He is a guy in recovery   forever.   And  

[00:55:53] Unknown:

so we write a song he likes, you know, he likes to write songs. What you think. I think that's the accurate that's a more accurate but in the moment, I I I've just unsure of, like, am I getting the wrong  

[00:56:03] Unknown:

waves is like that too. It's like Yes. It's just and getting all silly.  

[00:56:09] Unknown:

Yeah. So when Jim explained it   explained in a a different way to, to look at these songs,   I immediately like, it washed over me, and I was fine with it moving forward. The only thing I was hanging on to was Possum. It was I was still hanging on to Possum at that point, though.  

[00:56:24] Unknown:

All of a sudden, we're just paying super close attention to the lyrics and getting triggered by them. Like, we used to just, like  

[00:56:31] Unknown:

Exactly. Laugh. Yeah. So laugh at them. They're coming from a guy who doesn't doesn't pay attention to   to to lyrics. I was it was a it was a very a lot of hip hypocrisy there. So   but now I just love those. I fucking love those songs. Like, I I I love the jams. I I love the songs themselves. I just love them. I mean, I have to say anything they've ever done a New Year's gag with to  

[00:56:55] Unknown:

to me signifies that they're at least Trey views them as important.   Yeah. I mean, because It's a lot of energy. Splendid. A lot yeah. So much energy goes into and even Meat Stick.   Yeah. Do we so that's a show we could do one of these days is the New Year's gags. I'm just looking, you know That would be fun. The New Year's gags. That would be fine. So and this and, you know,   one thing I did so I want you to continue with the music. I want you to get to the end because I I I there's something I do. I want to have a I covered all of it.   Okay. So let me okay. So here's something I wanna   explore with you now.  

As I was thinking about this episode, like I told you, I didn't prepare much, but I I was imagining.   Like, so I do a lot of I do a lot of imagining. Obviously, this whole this whole show is from my imagining.  

[00:57:48] Unknown:

Right? Yep. It is. So  

[00:57:50] Unknown:

here's what I imagine now. Okay.   Then I don't think fish is ever gonna top this baker's dozen.   Well, I don't think I I, you know, I don't know that they're going to top I really don't. I mean, I know, like, Cats Vowed Voxed was another thing that made everybody insane, but it wasn't a thirteen night run-in Master Sport or   Without repeat musically, it I mean, it was a great album, a great achievement. They wrote a they wrote an incredible album in, like, three weeks Mhmm. Or something.   That era,   to me, there's it was an absolute peak.   And even though they're writing new songs that are incredible,   it doesn't look like the energy is there   to have an event, another event like this.  

And so that so let me that that was, like, the first thing I wanted to put out there. That's the that's the setup for Okay. My question my question to you now.   My imagination   is,   what if they do   what if they do get Bitcoin   at some point   and do get   super inspired? What if they're 75 years old when this happens?   And,   you know, like,   like, you know they're gonna, like, decide   that they have to do something,   like, meaningful. Like, this like like, that could be the thing. Like, so, what I was gonna ask you is what would a, like, what would, like, a   what would a baker's dozen, like, a sound money like, a sound you know, what would a sound   whatever fish is v whatever fish is inspiration   would be from like, whatever sound money would mean to them?  

Like,   would that translate into an event?   I feel like it would.   I feel like it might be the only thing that would also. You know?   This is this is what I was imagining.  

[00:59:44] Unknown:

Yeah.   Is that the  

[00:59:47] Unknown:

question? Yeah. Like, what do you like, you know, if can you, like, imagine   that   scenario?   You know, can you imagine that? Because I think  

[01:00:00] Unknown:

And what would it look like? Again, this is all based on the premise that the band at some point let's just say Trey   to to keep it simple.   Let's assume the band's along for the ride as they usually are.   Trey finds Bitcoin   As most of us, I don't think anyone's ever been excluded from this, feels a wave of,   enthusiasm.   And   this this this,   concept or or idea that, you know, I just learned something that is really important   to everyone, and I need to help   help spread this this newfound wisdom that I've obtained.  

[01:00:40] Unknown:

Yeah. I'll even suggest this I'll even suggest this scenario. And, like, I don't know Trey,   but I would say, what if it's just a simple realization   that,   all the money he's made I I guarantee you all of them know that despite the fact that they've made all this money, it's not gonna last. I think they know this. Yeah. And it's I don't think they think about inflation too much. I don't know if they think about any of that. I think that they they know that the grind   is limited.  

[01:01:10] Unknown:

Yeah.   Well, here's the thing that nobody talks about, I think, as it relates to people with the amount of wealth that that fish might have. You know, they're not billionaires, but they're   probably,   you know, decamillionaires   at a minimum, maybe maybe a little bit more.   Is Bitcoin assuming they find Bitcoin.   Bitcoin is   the first   money that is programmable.   And you hear a lot of stories from people that are that are very wealthy, and I happen to hear some of these stories from people that I know where they they have   friends that   or other families they've known where they're very wealthy and two generally two just two generations later, it's all gone.  

Yeah. And   if for nothing more than the impact of people that do have a substantial amount of wealth and the ability to protect it, not only from debasement,   but from their offspring   by programming it to only be able to be spent under certain conditions or at certain times.   And to me, I think that's   that's   that's something that is, it's gonna be a big deal long term.  

[01:02:25] Unknown:

Could be, which I I would I would view that as uncharacteristic   of what I would   a trade seems to be like an anything goes kinda kinda   type. But, like Go ahead.   Yeah. You know what I mean? Saying, like like, you know, they know their money is being being is that what you want to put in? I think I think it's just that you   like, I don't disagree. I think that's all   potentially very beautiful.   But at at the very base of it, you have to put in an enormous   you have to put in a lot of units of   work, blood, sweat, and tears to get to end up with a unit of  

[01:03:01] Unknown:

savings.  

[01:03:03] Unknown:

Mhmm.   Of and, you know, they're wealthy enough that they have savings.  

[01:03:08] Unknown:

Yes.  

[01:03:09] Unknown:

And I doubt they understand,   you know, inflation or anything too much. I doubt they care about that. They're wealthy enough that they don't even care about that too much. Shield it as much. Yeah. But what they what everybody feels at that level is you're putting in a lot to get a little.   Like, they probably should have more. You know what I mean? Not that not in a greedy sense.   In a sense, like, why   after   every you know, you start doing the math, all the ticket sales, all this, all that, all the merch, it   should be more.  



[01:03:40] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:03:43] Unknown:

We don't care that much because we're fine. But, like, you know, it's like that it's just that little thing that lingers.   You know? Yeah.   It's just a thing that lingers and they don't care about it for themselves, but I'm sure they care about it for the, people that they employ.   They care about it for   everyone who's in their circles who who does care about it.   Right. Like, not everybody is as you know, not everybody is them. Not, you know, not everybody is in the position that they're in. And   I also tend to think they're all a little communist, and so they all   probably you know what I mean? There's probably   a good amount of,  

[01:04:23] Unknown:

parasiticness that they're subjected to. Yeah. Yeah. Not not at the scale of the dead, but something something similar. Yeah.  

[01:04:31] Unknown:

Well,   yeah. All is that to say is that I it's like the you know,   there's something   to me. There's something that can get sparked   by,   potentially,   that that could revive   Fish's interest in wanting to top themselves again. Yes. I think they're done. I really do. I think they're done trying to top themselves. Agree. Right? The circus act has the circus acts have all been done. Yep. And it's and I think it wrote about, like, how, like, how the hell like, they they did not have Halloween on their calendar in 2018.   I don't think.  

Or did they?   You know, did   like, they don't put Halloween on the calendar until unless they have an idea up their sleeve that they know that they have a decent idea is going to be a topper. Right? Yep. Yep. And so   they they don't yeah. So 2021 was the last time.   And again, shout out Walter Ruski. I just watched the 2021,   Syfy Soldier.   We might have to do an episode about it.   That was Syfy Soldier,   a band from the year 4280   or something like that,   coming back in time. I have a lot of views on if, you know, if you guys think I'm crazy about, like, fish signaling Bitcoin, I have these, like, views of, like, fish being like a Bill and Ted's excellent adventure type scenario where   they, you know,   they did come back from the future   to make sure they existed to do something very special.  

I like it. I like it. But they they don't seem to   have the drive to top themselves. And I don't think anybody is, like, would fault them at this point. Not at all. But but what I do see is that there I like, the Bitcoin rabbit hole   for however it touches them.   Right? For however it moves,   whatever dreams it actually does, you know, create. It that's what it does to all of us. Right?   And it's gay to talk about, but we have dreams.   Yes.   You know, I'm 50 years old, and I have, like I never had dreams.   I never had real dreams. And when I was I had dreams when I was, like, 14.   It's like, I'm gonna be a college basketball coach. Yeah. Yeah. And then that died, like, pretty quickly.  



[01:06:51] Unknown:

And then you're and then it's part survival. You know? You know what I mean? We had dream we had dream jobs. We didn't have dreams.  

[01:06:58] Unknown:

And Right.   I love I I'm sorry, but I you know,   Bitcoin   allowed me to dream.   Like,   having a dream of,   building something that keeps my family together long term, whereas   the way that was gonna go was probably they were, you know, gonna move to whatever city they moved to and start their life and do what they wanna do.   You know, I can actually say, you know, fuck that. I'm gonna build something. I'm gonna build a company, and they're all gonna work for it. And we're all gonna, you know, we're all gonna build a life together.   That's great. And, you know, I get to have that dream, and I get to I get to wake up every day and work on that. And all I'm saying is if, you know, somebody like Trey wakes up,   figures this out,   has another dream another real kind of dream. You know? By the way, the, the beacon jams, I'd say, was a attempt. Mhmm. Because that was pretty out there. Yep. Give them give them credit for that one too. Absolutely. So but and that was born out of a dream of his, I think, to open a bunch of rehab centers.  

Does that because that's something that's very important to him. Yep.   Imagine what Bitcoin could do for him for all all of these endeavors and whatever it is.   I think the,   the old   the old circus act is gonna get the old book with the ideas with the circus acts, it's gonna get dusted off.   And   that would be the to me, that might be the impetus. And maybe that's something that really maybe   that's an event so incredible that it really does end up unifying a lot of us.  

[01:08:35] Unknown:

That would be great.  

[01:08:38] Unknown:

So there's, like, my tie in. You know?  

[01:08:41] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:08:42] Unknown:

It's more like well, you know, I'm at a point now in this podcast, episode 13, where it's like, the tie ins to Bitcoin are just about   excellence,   and we're selecting   people to that are that are just the best of what they do to   build in the future. And the fact of the matter is Phish is that Phish is coming with us. Phish is getting on the arc. I don't know if the band is getting on the arc, but their archives and their music is coming with us. That's right.   And that's the whole point of this podcast,   is to just begin this conversation, begin the, like, the the introduction to all of you of what this is. Like, you guys have to understand this is a thing.  

And, you know, Jason and I aren't   just gonna sit and listen to Creed.  

[01:09:26] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:09:27] Unknown:

Okay. This is not this is not you know, this shit matters.   And,   you know, that's the that that's   so that's the tie in. The tie in is excellence.   It really is. Really almost nothing more excellent that's ever that's, like, ever happened   in this space than the baker's dozen.  

[01:09:46] Unknown:

It's so good.  

[01:09:49] Unknown:

Maybe the Bitcoin backdrop. Like, we're talking 2017. Right? We're talking about right in the heat of the Black Sized Wars. This is August. And that is I when you responded, obviously, we're we're we shoot some text back and forth before we before we record.  

[01:10:05] Unknown:

It's a great it's a great backdrop to to overlay.  

[01:10:10] Unknown:

Yeah.   And, you know, Bitcoin is under Bitcoin is   really on on in its first real referendum.   Right? Fighting for its life.  

[01:10:21] Unknown:

Would you call oh oh, yeah. The box size war is correct. Yeah. It's the first first   attack.  

[01:10:27] Unknown:

Legitimate attack. And and what does fish do? They just step up and do the greatest thing anyone's ever done. That's true.   They're matching the energy of what's needed.   I just feel like there's a trick left in the bag and that we're all going to meet again at some point,   at some critical point  

[01:10:47] Unknown:

Yes. Where this this this energy is gonna step up for us. I'd just Exactly. Where this is gonna matter. Like, this this is gonna be for something for something larger than than   than everything.  

[01:10:57] Unknown:

Yes. I have a core I have a core belief. Maybe this is the Jew in me thinking   that this is the messiah coming back. That's I did not say that.   I don't give a shit about any of that, but, like   so, like, this would be to me, it would be like if it was that   Bitcoin was on the ropes again   and somehow   in an unrelated   course of events, Fish had decided it was time to raise the bar yet again.   Yeah. It wouldn't shock me. And maybe it's maybe it is related, and maybe it's not.  

[01:11:32] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:11:34] Unknown:

That's which is the whole point of of of us bringing these two things together. They're coming from my JU card now, man. I'm that never gonna be able to use that again.  

[01:11:43] Unknown:

I don't know.   I think you're okay. I think you're okay.  

[01:11:47] Unknown:

I didn't say what I mean   yeah. Whatever.   Whatever.  

[01:11:53] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:11:56] Unknown:

Do you have a problem with me mentioning that?   No.  

[01:12:00] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, are you talking to me or the audience? No, I'm talking to the audience. I'm talking to the 29 people who download the show every week. Yeah. Yeah. You can go fuck yourself if you have a problem with that. We love you though.   GFY hearts.   Anything else you want to? Anything else you think we need to cover here? No. No. I thought I was, it was good to bring up the block size words. I would have forgotten, but that that was going on at the same time. And,   maybe maybe something in the future will,   the the fish beacon, like the Batman, the Batman signal will be  

[01:12:36] Unknown:

will be shined in the sky for them to respond. To draw it out. Not to draw it out more. Yeah. But I'm just let me I just it's like,   we're so privileged   to have to   like, when I contrast you and I versus   typical a typical Phish fan who   is just living their life. Like, we are really like, we are living a life that demands that energy. Like, we we don't get to hang it up. Like, we don't get to basically say we're done topping ourselves.   Right. And that's just like an enormous privilege.   And that's what the that's just to me, what being a Fish fan represents to me   I mean,   being Jewish, I'm probably literally   a one of one of somebody who thinks about things the way I do. You know, I don't see these characteristics in other Jewish people, and I don't see it in other fish fans, most of whom are Jewish, by the way.  



[01:13:26] Unknown:

Yeah. I'd say   I'd say in this area, if I I would argue 50%, maybe. I mean, approaching.  

[01:13:32] Unknown:

The our call to action and our the enter you know, like, to our call in a being   is   an absolute gift and a privilege.   You know? And I'm just like, it's like   getting to experience the Baker's dozen, I didn't   was a highlight,   but I was not engaged in a block size war.  

[01:13:53] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:13:54] Unknown:

Right? I so it   you know, I got to experience this in the innocence.   But we written you know, we're doing this podcast because we're called you know, this life calls us into being. We you know, winning is not guaranteed, my friends, and we are you know?   Fish fans think they already won, and they it's like, you know,   weed is legal weed is legal and, you know, all that stuff. And so they have, you know, every they have everything they want now.   You know, for us, it's every every day, the bar has to be risen. So I take inspiration.   I know there's a group of people that have done this, that have raised the bar and delivered.  

And so you have to hone your craft,   be the best.  

[01:14:35] Unknown:

Yes.   You have to provide actual value to others.   And that, you know, before I would I would say before you know, looking back, let's just say 02/2017, so that's what we're talking about. Going back to that point in time,   obviously, it was I knew about Bitcoin. I think I'd purchased some, but I wasn't down the rabbit hole at all until about '21.   They say ignorance is bliss. And in 02/2017,   I would say that I would have said about myself that I knew what was going on. I wasn't ignorant to anything.   And   now I realized that I was   I was so ignorant and blissful in at that time period compared to where I am now. Not to say I'm not I'm not, I'm not blissful, but I I I definitely feel like I was ignorant. That's for sure.  



[01:15:26] Unknown:

You know, so one last tie in.   This is fucking great.   One last tie in about what was going on at the time. So this this was the three week period.   It just so happened to be the three week period   of Anthony Scaramucci   in the White House. Are you serious?   Yeah. Go look it up.  

[01:15:45] Unknown:

I I will. I will. That's amazing.  

[01:15:48] Unknown:

Like, it's like literally like, I don't know how he was literally in   in the job of pre of press secretary   for the duration of the for the rate duration of the baker's dozen.   What  

[01:16:02] Unknown:

are your thoughts on this guy? Just just curious. I mean,  

[01:16:06] Unknown:

if are you a fan of that way? Yeah. I mean, no. I think he's a fucking tool. Yeah. He's a douchebag. Yeah. But and but he's he's kinda loosely it's like that. It's weird how people in my life view him as, like, the avatar for Bitcoiner.  

[01:16:22] Unknown:

Oh, god. That's all. I know he has this podcast.  

[01:16:24] Unknown:

He's a Solana guy. He's not a He's a shitcoin  

[01:16:27] Unknown:

fucking loser. Coin guy. I left Bitcoin. Here's my shitcoin kind of guy. You know, he's 3 feet tall.   You know? He's a little he's a little rat, basically,   like, from  

[01:16:39] Unknown:

Goodfellas. But, like, it was  

[01:16:42] Unknown:

You fucking know. The whole  

[01:16:43] Unknown:

the Trump thing was still fairly innocent and they,   like, things turned in Charlottesville   and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you were if you were a media addict like I was. Yeah. I wasn't paying attention much at the time. And but but the Scaramucci thing was one of those little periods brief little periods of time   where it was kinda funny. Things were, you know, things were kinda fun. And it was almost like   it's just so weird that then the baker's doesn't happen. It's right exactly  

[01:17:12] Unknown:

smack in that period of time. It was a sigh up, bro. It was a sigh up.  

[01:17:18] Unknown:

Yeah. But he, you know, he I mean, the guy has   he's a guy Bitcoiners will call him a net positive,   which means you're a fucking asshole. You're like a loser shitcoining asshole. Yeah. But, like, you may have orange billed somebody who matters.  

[01:17:33] Unknown:

I don't think he's a net positive, but he's not. Yeah.  

[01:17:40] Unknown:

I hear you.   Yeah. There's probably yeah. He he's it's probably he's like he reminds me of he would be the Aaron Wolf type. Like, if I visualized what Aaron Wolf looks like   Yes. It's  

[01:17:53] Unknown:

it's  

[01:17:54] Unknown:

it's the mooch. It's it's yeah. It's it's it's the mooch.  

[01:17:57] Unknown:

Yeah. It's it's either him or pump. One of the two.  

[01:18:03] Unknown:

Alright. Any other tie ins? Anything else? I'm just again, like, I was just really transporting myself back to that period of time. Yeah. That's what I just did that exercise as well.  

[01:18:14] Unknown:

And that's what that was,   I think that was my sentiment. Like, yeah, I thought I had it all figured out.   The more you the more you know, the more you realize you don't know, and that is such a true   a true adage.  

[01:18:29] Unknown:

Shout out to the baker's dozen and fish for doing it.   And,   shout out to us for covering it. And, It's a celebration.   Absolutely. So I'm glad we did it. Yeah. Episode 13 in the books.   Done.  

[01:24:43] Unknown:

Tomorrow's donut will be Kansas Metallica flavored.   We've been waiting for that joke for twenty   years.