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Jason
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Phish - Chalk Dust Torture, IT Festival 08/03/2003, Loring Air Force Base, Limestone, ME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG6magkY-KE

Dave Matthews Band playing All Along the Watchtower with Trey Anastasio and John Popper at the Roseland Ballroom, NYC - 02/24/1995
https://soundcloud.com/iccullus-7/dmb-all-along-the-watchtower-live-22495-new-york-city-1

Prayer in the Pentagon - Robert Dederick
https://poetrybeingzen.blogspot.com/2007/10/prayer-in-pentagon.html

In this episode, we navigate through technical difficulties to delve into the intriguing world of Phish's album "Undermind." Despite the challenges, we explore the album's themes, reflecting on the band's struggles during a tumultuous period in 2004. We discuss the poignant lyrics and the emotional weight carried by tracks like "Crowd Control" and "Two Versions of Me," which reveal the band's internal conflicts and the external pressures from their fanbase. The conversation also touches on the parallels between Phish's journey and the Bitcoin community, highlighting themes of resilience and transformation.

We also reflect on the personal stories and experiences surrounding the album's release, including the impact of the band's temporary disbandment and the eventual triumphant return in 2009. The episode offers a deep dive into the significance of Phish's music during a dark era, drawing connections to broader themes of personal and collective struggle, and the eventual redemption and revival that followed. Join us as we unravel the layers of "Undermind" and its place in Phish's storied history.

[00:00:39] Unknown:

We are having technical difficulties. Third time's a charm. But I think we get through it. Third time Well time to see. As they say.  

[00:00:47] Unknown:

This this this rip is going like the album we're gonna talk about.   You   know?  

[00:00:56] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm excited for this one. It doesn't lead to it. Nowhere.  

[00:00:59] Unknown:

Yeah.   I I'm so I I'm excited for this one too, and I feel like that's why, like, the gods are against us here. Yeah. Trying to Or, like, they're trying to lagify our sound. They're,   yeah, they are. They're fucking with us. And, like,   when   here's the thing. When my podcast partner, whoever it is, whenever there's a, like, a lag,   like, I don't need any help already sounding like I'm talking over the other person. I already do that all the time. I know, like, I know that's what it sounds like all all the time, but this time is, like, not my fault.   Yes. So I just need people to know that.  



[00:01:35] Unknown:

Yeah.   If we sound rude Well, it's good to see. It's not it's not our fault. Yeah.  

[00:01:41] Unknown:

No. It's not I don't I don't sound rude in this scenario, but I sound I sound, like, just autistic and tone deaf. Like, I just don't like, I'd like, I don't know you're talking   or don't care. Right? It's Right. But it's because of the lag.  

[00:01:58] Unknown:

Yeah. Sure.   Okay.   We will I will I will be very patient with my speaking pattern today.  

[00:02:08] Unknown:

Okay. I think I'm gonna turn the camera off. I think that's going to be   because it's like it is distracting   to see how laggy you are. Now a lot of times,   this just this just works itself out in the software.   So let's just take   let's just take a chance. Okay? Let's just take a chance.   Hey. I got some fish news.   This is terrible. This will be a terrible,   some fish news in the Bitcoin.   We did rock paper Bitcoin yesterday.   This is horrible, actually.   And I'm sorry in advance   for   telling the story.   So,   you know, my rock paper Bitcoin is like my fish. You know? This is like my this is like my oyster head.   You know what I mean? Mhmm. Understood. Rock paper Bitcoin is like, you know, it's my baby.  

And,   I love I I do, like, love my partner, and   I would do anything for him.   But, also, I can't resist   bringing up fish material when it comes up.   And it came up oh my god. Like,   nobody listening to this is gonna know or care, but you are gonna have the cringey you're gonna have a very cringey reaction to what I'm about to tell you.  

[00:03:30] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:03:33] Unknown:

So my partner is business cat,   and, you know, his name is his name is probably 10 years old at least.  

[00:03:41] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:03:43] Unknown:

And it's   it's related to his cat.   Okay?   And his cat sadly   passed. Rest in peace.   Just past week. Bad guy?   Well,   you know, I offered I offered him solace in song.   And I   I told he goes, okay. Send me the song.   And   I sent   I did. I sent him the seven twenty five ninety I sent him the first known soundboard quality because you know what I noticed in this space? People don't like listening to audience   recordings.   Yes. You know? Yes. They they're too,   spoiled from all the digital music that they grew up with,   and,   they don't have the ear   to be able to handle some audience noise or some hissing.  

Right?   Yeah. Like, you and I have been building our ear calluses for a long time. So Yes.  

[00:04:46] Unknown:

For for decades.  

[00:04:48] Unknown:

Yeah. Because if you wanna listen to live music, it's going to,   many times, be a mic that's, like, literally hidden in somebody's tie and a tape deck that's hidden in their briefcase.  

[00:04:58] Unknown:

That's right.  

[00:05:01] Unknown:

Right? And it's not always gonna sound like it's just, like, coming off Spotify with, like,   you know, perfectly sophisticated   production value. Right? Right.   So I sent him the first   soundboard I could find, which was   Waterloo Village,   1993.   As personal aside, I was in Waterloo Village in 1995 when they again played Harpua, and it was a   it was the famous one where they played Waterloo   by ABBA.   Jimmy's listening to ABBA, and he's like, this sucks. Why do I listen to this? But then,   John Popper joined them. I wanted us really send them the John the one with John Popper. I thought that would be really cool, but it just didn't sound that good.   And the 1993   version sounded a lot better.  

Gotcha. And,   so for the listeners listening,   Harpua   Jason, correct me if I say this incorrectly. Okay?   I want I would say that Harpua is the number one FOMO   song on a set list.  

[00:06:07] Unknown:

FOMO in the sense that if you miss a harpua, you're pissed off?  

[00:06:10] Unknown:

Yes. You feel them most. %.  

[00:06:13] Unknown:

As soon as it drops as soon as it as soon as you see it on the set list, you're like, goddamn it. I wish I was at that show. And if you are at a show and you hear it and you hear them go into,  

[00:06:25] Unknown:

you   this is like   a god candle.   The kind of excitement from a god candle doesn't even come close to describing what everyone in that building is feeling.  

[00:06:40] Unknown:

It's true.  

[00:06:42] Unknown:

It's it's one of those songs. So   even though   it's and the song has everything. It has massive hooks.   I mean, it's a really good song.   It has narration.   It is hilarious,   usually.   It has all of, like so there's a category of songs that Trey will just do well, he'll sort of stop inside of the song.   And then behind some maybe background music that is that song, he'll start narrating a story.   You know, he does this a lot inside of the game hinge,   saga, which we've talked about here.  

[00:07:21] Unknown:

Sure.  

[00:07:22] Unknown:

Right. And   in   really, I guess it was last not this past New Year's, but the one before.   Right? 2023?  

[00:07:32] Unknown:

Yeah. '23 to '24. Yep.  

[00:07:34] Unknown:

That's the last known Harpua. Is that correct?  

[00:07:38] Unknown:

I don't think I've seen Harpua on the set list since.  

[00:07:42] Unknown:

Did they but they did use Harpua to launch into the game henge. Am I incorrect about that, or am I gonna have to issue another correction? Oh, man. Another correction?  

[00:07:51] Unknown:

This is where I'm I'm running out of,   OG fish talent.  

[00:07:56] Unknown:

I'm trying to This is but this is, but this is 12/3123.  

[00:08:00] Unknown:

So I'm just gonna look it up real quick before before I tell you this. That is how they led into it, and that's when,   Jimmy realized his dad his dad was a gaslighting asshole.  

[00:08:11] Unknown:

Yeah. So, like,   this is something it's it's interesting and strange, and maybe it comes up in our conversation when we do this album.   We we are doing the album   we are doing the album undermine, which is   kinda sad times in the world in a certain way. But so, yes, clearly, it was introduced by Harpoo at 12:31   ninety three. Sorry. Not '93. '2 '2 thousand '20 '3.   12:31 ninety three was my first show.   12/31,   02/2023   was the last known Harpua that I'm that I remember, and then it was also   the last known version of Game Hinge. And it was the first version of Game Hinge played since 1994.  

[00:08:55] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:08:57] Unknown:

And when we say Gamehenge, we're talking about this   multisong   kinda rock opera   that   was, Trey Anastasia's   senior thesis at Goddard College   that includes all of these songs like and we talked we've talked about them. We've sung it's called the man that stepped into yesterday.   The man who stepped into yesterday, I should say.   And it's all these songs like,   the lizards,   Tela, and Wilson,   and ACDC bag, and this whole saga   of a pointless   it's a saga of a pointless revolution, and it's   really is absolutely pointless   because it just tells the story about how predictable the whole thing was   and how predictably   the revolutionaries   became the next dictators   and   how, you know, years later,   the gods   the gods of that world   were singing just a song about how it's basically, like, you know and also, a possum got run over on the road Right. On the side of the road. And it's like It was that pointless.  

Yes. And, you know, like, we've we've like, yeah. We had a we had an episode. We talked about how Trey was wise beyond his years, and he understood sort of these things. Yes. This is all before   you know? And it it's kinda like fourth turning vibes that he is channeling the game head and saga,   but he has no idea about Bitcoin   or about really this, like, world we live in where we discuss these things. Yeah. Mhmm. It's it's kind of apparent   that there certainly, that is not informing   like, that it's not directly informing any of this.   But it's interesting because   so much of what goes on in Fish's repertoire   sounds like it's being informed by this by these conversations.  



[00:10:43] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:10:45] Unknown:

So   that was all to say Harpua is the song that is it's like an all time fan favorite.   Right?   And so I could not resist   free. And it has so it has narration,   and   it also has a story about a boy who loves his cat. His cat, his name is poster Nutbag.   And the cat always dies.   The cat always dies, and then at the end of the song, it's his his dad gives him the bad news,   and he offers him a goldfish.   And   Yeah. He does.   And so and at the end of the song, the lyrics are like, I don't want a goldfish. I want a dog.   And then that leads into the final   measure of the song.  



[00:11:32] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:11:34] Unknown:

Harpoo is the name of the dog, by the way. Harpoo is the name of the dog that kill always kills poster nutmeg.   Okay.   So   I don't know why I thought that would be a just   a funny or a a good idea to bring up to my good friend,   business cat.   But I really do feel for like,   you know, I was saying, like, the one time I remember once I had to give a dog like, we we got a dog from the,   humane society, and Mhmm. Something happened that week. Like, the dog was, like   like, on the borderline of, like, doing something violent to my dad.   Mhmm. And they're not experienced. They weren't experienced dog people, so they gave the dog back. And, dude, we all we were crying our eyes out, dude, just from I bet. Just from that. Like, I can't imagine. Yeah. Like, it's just,   you know, RIP isn't to the cat. Okay?  

And, yeah, if there's anything that   I don't know. I sent him this so so I sent him the song by Pua. He needs to listen to it, and he goes,   what in that he was like, what in the hell is going on here?   I said, I don't know, man. If you can find a way to use it in the outro, it'd be cool.  

[00:12:44] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:12:46] Unknown:

So we're crossing over a little bit. And I don't know. You know, maybe it's the show doing maybe I'm doing   too much. Okay. But I just like,   heck like, how do you resist bringing  

[00:12:56] Unknown:

Harpoon? I mean, on in your defense,   if if I was in a similar situation, I would have done the exact same thing.   Yeah.   So that is the answer to that situation.  

[00:13:09] Unknown:

How about being autistic?  

[00:13:12] Unknown:

No. No. No. No. No. Listen. Like, I'm a cat person. I've had cats. I have two cats now.  

[00:13:18] Unknown:

Grew up with quite a bit of breaking admission.  

[00:13:20] Unknown:

Oh, it's not something I've yeah. I I I don't understand all the all the hate hate towards cats. It actually makes me question the individual,   expressing those ideas.  

[00:13:31] Unknown:

Cats are cool. I think they just Yeah. They're different. You know?   They are. They And  

[00:13:37] Unknown:

and some of them can be,   you know,   as dog like as any dog,  

[00:13:43] Unknown:

depending on how you raise them, the breeds, and first you know? And that's kind of I can't say I've had the pleasure of meeting a cat that I felt that way about, But it I don't really know. I don't really get to know too many of them. Well, maybe tomorrow, you'll you'll get a chance.   Yeah. We are we   we're, we're hanging out and play some music. It's gonna be good.  

[00:14:03] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm excited.   So Back to back to posting that. Yeah. I mean, RIP   to,   business cats namesake,   inspiration.  

[00:14:14] Unknown:

RIP because we find them a lot of business yet.  

[00:14:16] Unknown:

Rest in peace. I I I'd I'd do, put a cat down that the more recent one now, we I have two with my wife that are had happened to be brothers that are also rescued from, like, an animal shelter.  

[00:14:29] Unknown:

Mhmm. But,  

[00:14:32] Unknown:

I'm still convinced that our one the one of the two boys is the is the reincarnation of the cat that I had prior   separated by about four years. So Interesting.   Yeah. There's   some interesting energy out there if you believe in that sort of thing. But,   at the end of the day, it's it it is a pet. You know? You gotta keep things in perspective, and and I think Harpua does a great job reminding us of that. I think it's funny because Trey is clearly a dog guy. And so many of the songs are Yep. There's so many songs that are stories about  

[00:15:06] Unknown:

his well known dog, Marley.   You know?   Although Trey seems to be a cat guy too because he's got Ocelot Ocelot. I don't I don't know I don't know what the backstory is on the Ocelot. But, And Wendy from Bathtub Gym, which we covered, is obviously a cat.   Oh, Wendy because Wendy's on the win Wendy's on the windowsill waiting to be let in. Has to be a cat. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't real I didn't catch that.   Alright.   So   there's our preshow business.  

[00:15:38] Unknown:

Well, I I I appreciate you showing that. And,  

[00:15:41] Unknown:

Well, it's like news. You know? I've had I had one other pot so my the Sound Coffee podcast with Otis Bittmeyer has already included the song grind.   Nice.   Yeah.   I presume.   Yeah, so they're in the they are I would say they're in the lead. I haven't figured out well, Motivate the Math started using the song waste as an intro and outro.   Very cool. And I did that because that's what I that's, you know, kind of that's how I feel. Like, you guys are, just, like, yeah, come waste your time with me.   I do feel like motivating the math is a giant waste of time that I do appreciate not, like, it's a waste of time, but, like, I feel like that's how people feel when they listen to it.  

[00:16:21] Unknown:

Yeah. The and you know what? That's I like that self deprecating.   It's charming. It's similar. It reminds me of MVK, how he talks about his pod always putting people to sleep. Like, if he made it to the end, it's kinda similar similar tone.  

[00:16:35] Unknown:

Yeah. I, you know, I mean, I feel like I, you know, at some point, the 10 people that really stick with us, like, we are gonna build something huge.   Yeah. Yeah. You know, I do podcast for selection. I don't do them to,   you know, I don't do them to build a audience or get a sponsorship. I do it to,   after a couple of years, find the 10 people who I'm gonna build  

[00:16:58] Unknown:

absolutely build with. Exactly. Exactly. Right?  

[00:17:03] Unknown:

Okay. Well, having said that, you know, let's   talk about the album UnderMine.  

[00:17:10] Unknown:

And by the way, the sound just feels like it's going much better. Yeah. I'm I'm seeing how it's lighting up. The yeah. The lag seems to be reduced. Good call turning the cameras off.  

[00:17:21] Unknown:

The   so   so there's a couple things I really wanted to do this album.   And why? I I never liked it.   That's the first thing I wanna say. So the album UnderMine   released in 02/2004,   which was the dark year. That's the year Fish went away forever   Yep. Until 02/2009. But that was the year they had to call it quits, and they had to make a very,   very difficult decision.   And   they did release this album about a month before they made the announcement.   I never got it,   and I'm pretty sure I never really listened to it.   And,   it was only recently   because of Walter Ruski, you know, because Walter Ruski is just, like, covering.  

This guy is doing more fish videos than I'm doing podcasts. I mean, yeah, he really is prolific. He's, like, Trey like with his content.   So he covered the album, and, you know, maybe it's it sort of took hearing it from his   from his lens.   Yeah. But I developed an incredible appreciation, not just for the album,   but for the era.   And I think, like because I we have I've told you before, like, I I rarely listen to   I rarely listen to anything in the two thousands.   So we started having this conversation   about,   you know,   Trey,   Fishman, they tell the story   that,   after Big Cypress, which   for the listeners, that was the big   twelve thirty one   ninety nine   show.  

So for New Year's Eve nineteen ninety nine, they   went to,   the Big Cypress reservation. I mean, twelve thirty one ninety nine was, like, one of the biggest events of, like, our life. It really   was. Okay. And,   you know, I had literally I had met my I met my wife December fourth that year, and   I wasn't planning on going to Big Cypress   to begin with.   And meeting my wife,   we just decided to be with friends on New Year's Eve in New York and Yeah. Didn't didn't do it.   Sure. So was it a big missing? It was, yes.   At my stage of seeing fish at the time, I was kinda   I was on the outs personally. Like, I I didn't like the scene too much anymore.  

Mhmm.   I didn't wanna work that hard, and I've gone through that period many times. But, like, that you know, when I started in the in the early nineties, things it was such a honeymoon, and things were so great.  

[00:20:08] Unknown:

And the band was great. Kinda swept up in that in the, yeah, early stages of a of a a lifelong relationship. I can imagine. Yeah. It you know,  

[00:20:16] Unknown:

'98   did   did the Long Island piece of the island run. Yeah.   Did New Year's run.   Started to re did some shows in the summer.   I don't know. You know, like, you could feel it. You could feel something turning.   And it's amazing how much this album   at like the like when Emperor Palpatine   says to Luke Skywalker,   only now at the end do you realize.   Right? And it was like   only, you know, I felt almost validated when I heard, you know, when I heard a lot of this just because it just confirmed the things I was thinking at the time, which is just like the scene was getting really shitty.   The band wasn't even happy.  

Mhmm. The music was great   somehow   regardless.   But they talk so they talk about Big Cypress as   peak   that   when they so they played a,   they played, like, an eight hour set from   basically   11:30PM,  

[00:21:19] Unknown:

twelve thirty one ninety nine, to about six or 7AM the following morning. A little after seven, something like that, ma'am. Just, yeah, you're right. Eight hours.  

[00:21:28] Unknown:

And, Trey and Fishman both have   a similar story that by about 1PM that day, they were on their sofa.   Like, Trey was on a sofa in Manhattan.   Fish   was in his house in Vermont or wherever they were living. And they both had the same thought, which is that   we just peaked, and there's nowhere to go.   Sure.   You've heard this?  

[00:21:51] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've heard that anecdote, and it's just interesting listening to you recant like, that time period for you because, you know, we've we've   pointed out on several occasions the fact that you got into the band,   but roughly five years before I did.   And it's just funny   to see the the stark contrast between our lived experience during this time period because   for me,   I was just starting to hit my stride with as far as, like, getting deeper in, like,   below the surface   of   of the music.   The scene, I was still being, like, swept away. I just thought it was the most amazing thing. I went to the IT Festival the year prior in 02/2003,   middle of the summer up in Maine,   which is the same site for the, again, for all audiences benefit, the same site that they did the great went. And,   well, I guess, what they did three that was the fourth festival there. So they had a long history of doing it. This is an old retired air force base. But   I wasn't I was so caught up in just the enthusiasm   of, like,   finding fish and finding Yeah.  

The scene that   later when people   when I remember people telling me, like, oh, the scene's getting pretty dirty and, like, things that you're talking about. I was just kinda, like, blinded by the by the by by my own enthusiasm  

[00:23:20] Unknown:

and excitement for what I had discovered. Kinda like Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Like, there's really is. I was just I I was just thinking that. Like, there's some like, when I got you know, I've I've gotten a Bitcoin relatively recently, probably more recently than the majority of the people who actually listen to this. Right. And,   you know, I talk I talk I say things like, oh, you know, there's Bitcoiners are really smart about certain things, and they're like, no. They're all dirtbags and idiots.   And it's like, yeah. I get it. Like, I get when you're the longer you're around, the more you   the more you see it. I mean, and the scene does attract   dirt balls.  

Yeah. Just like fish fish does.  

[00:24:02] Unknown:

Yeah. Especially during that time period. Yeah.  

[00:24:06] Unknown:

And, you know, the it's an interesting parallel that both scenes attract, like,   you know, wonderful people.   Not only attract wonderful people, but, like, they   put people on their best behavior.   Right? They bring out like, shows really bring out the best in people, but I was not seeing that Like, I wasn't seeing that in '98,   and I certainly wasn't seeing it in o three and o four.  

[00:24:30] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:24:32] Unknown:

You know, and I see it now again, but not to the not like I did in '95.  

[00:24:39] Unknown:

Yeah. I think this I mean, I I only have to compare to, you know, '99 was definitely better than 02/2003,   '2 thousand '4.   And I think my my feel at shows is that it's pretty it's it's pretty   curated.   You know? Because it's like a they call built they call Bitcoin a filter, a filtration mechanism as far as the people that participate, and I think fish is kinda the same way.  

[00:25:07] Unknown:

Similar. Yeah. So,   so we get so so now we get to the end,   really, which is the album. And, you know,   they so watching Walter Ruski   give the review, you know, it was   what I you know, what I didn't realize about this album was that it really announced the departure, that they announced it in the album. Like, every song in the album pretty much announces, like,   this is like, we're doing the one thing we never wanted to do ever, and we have to. And every song is another sort of reason why.   It's what it seems it's, like, it is what it seems like.   Right?  



[00:25:50] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. It is,   again, I I listen to the I I listen to this album a lot when it came out. It's just in again, start contrast to your your your experience.   And the third track, the connection, which was, we should we should let the audience know, was, at one point, a contender for the name of this podcast.  

[00:26:15] Unknown:

It's true. It was once the name. It was once the the name was The Bitcoin Connection.  

[00:26:20] Unknown:

That's right. Yeah. For an episode or two. Yeah.  

[00:26:25] Unknown:

And when I, you know, when I finally,   I had made contact with Tom Marshall on Twitter.   But, like, when he   when he responded to one of my posts,   this is when I was, like, really screaming into the ether about all the fish connections.  

[00:26:42] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:26:43] Unknown:

I quoted the connection to him, and I got no response back from him. So I just kind of assumed he just took me for some   drug addled   insane person and ignore and just ignored me. Yeah.   But I that was what that was the way I was gonna test to see if maybe there really was a connection,   and there wasn't.   Yeah.   So the thing we talked about that I think was interesting is just the the real thing that I think is the most interesting is how the the music was great the whole way. Mhmm.   The you know, from February   to 02/2003,   maybe not so much o '4. Okay? But, like, certainly, that 02/2000   to 02/2003   was   an incredible time for fish. I the reason you know, the main reason I don't listen   to it too much is just because it's sad for me. And it's like Mhmm. I like listening to nine my favorite time is '91   through '94.  

That's like when they're that's like the time when they're, like, about to have, like, all their dreams come true.   Right? Everything they worked   yeah. Everything they were working for.   Yeah.   They were realizing everything they were working for was coming. And that's the version of them that I romanticize, and I   think   be with them. You know?   Yeah. You know, I view them as so great, and I just hate view I hate hanging out with that this version of it. Yeah. I mean, you I think we both shared that we're going we're going back through through  

[00:28:23] Unknown:

material   more as a result of us doing this this show.   And I,   I was at the IT Festival. And, like, speaking of good music, like, there were some some just legendary   improvisations   Incredible. Versions of songs at at the IT IT festival, which is very   I don't know if that was, like, a troll and the fans, like, so where are you going? I'm going to IT. Like, what's IT? And it's like, who's on first type of type of situation because,  

[00:28:53] Unknown:

it's, it's, it's one of their trolls.   But, like like, when you we talked about we we talked about in an episode earlier that during their drug years, they just, like, didn't have that fastball   of being funny. Yeah. And it's like it kinda missed. Right? It's kind of a it's like a lame troll. Yeah. It it was apparently, they had this whole Jack Kerouac  

[00:29:12] Unknown:

Jack Kerouac   on the road.   Right. We are here for your delight, something like that. You know? And no. And then they had, like, a wall of, like it was, like, written out. It might have been a whole chapter. It was a lot of text   and where he mentions it, like, trying to find it in that book. So that was what the reference was too, but it was very obscure and definitely drug addled.   And I'll say, like, I I I stumbled on the chalk dust torture,   which we just we just did a you know, we just did an episode on, which I I'm inclined   I may wanna link a a YouTube of this for the for the audience's sake just so they can see what we're talking about because   I didn't it's only in hindsight that I recognize   Trey's drug use potentially   at that festival during that time period.  

And there's there's,   a clip where he's just, like, kinda shredding   the early part of the song, and he doesn't he didn't look at his guitar one, like, like, for, like, three minutes.   But you can tell he's potentially,   you know, under the influence or whatever. But,   the music the output was fantastic, and that's, like, an amazing chalk dust torture. Like I said, I'll definitely put a link in the show notes. But,  

[00:30:25] Unknown:

it was kinda sad, like, because I because now I know. In the moment, I didn't like, I didn't I didn't know what I didn't know, and now I I look back, and I'm like, oh, man. He was suffering at that time. Yeah. It's sad. And what's interesting, we you know, what we talked about was that the the music itself, though, was terrific. And so how is that, like, you wonder how it's all possible. And I think the insight I had was that they're,   like, how was the music so good, yet they felt like it was like, they felt nothing about it. You know? All they felt was, like, it's not   Big Cypress.  

Right? Yeah. That's, like, all and,   you know, after Big Cypress, they it was, like, what, seven months before the their first hiatus.   Then they came back for basically a year and a half and did permanent hiatus.   Yep. Their lives were going nowhere. That and that's the issue. Like, their lot it's their lives that peaked.   Right? And, you know, there's that entry into drug use where things are, like, awesome. You know? Yeah. You think you discovered something  

[00:31:27] Unknown:

amazing.  

[00:31:28] Unknown:

Right? And then there's the moment where the it's like where the door shuts. And maybe, there's probably a good Bitcoin analogy here too. Right? Where you're,   you know, you're just, like, kinda running on dopamine and things are great. And then one day you realize you got rugged and you got interpermanent. And, like, you're fucked. Like, there's no going back to your old life, and your your your shit is really hard now.   And,   all you do is lament for the fact that, heck, how'd you allow this to happen?   So meanwhile, right, their musical output is incredible. I've talked about Trey's solo albums are incredible. They're and that that they're all happening during this time. Yeah.  

But their feeling about it clearly was really, really bad.  

[00:32:13] Unknown:

Right. So in And Miles Davis is what Miles Davis famously said, no smack, no soul. So, I mean, there is a lot of examples of art   where opiate use has,   not really affected the art, but it definitely affected the individual   creating the art.  

[00:32:30] Unknown:

I mean, it does affect the art, though. I mean, Harris Whittles   do you remember Harris Whittles?  

[00:32:35] Unknown:

No. I don't know who that is.   Alright. Harris Whittles was the cohost of the podcast analyst, Phish. Harris. I'm so sorry. I just know miss Harris. I'm I didn't know his last name.  

[00:32:45] Unknown:

He was the one guy openly   asking Trey to go back to doing drugs.  

[00:32:50] Unknown:

Oh, jeez.   That was  

[00:32:54] Unknown:

and god god rest his soul.   Harris   left over left us with from from a drug overdose in, I wanna say, 2015.  

[00:33:02] Unknown:

Oh, I wow. Oh, man. Because I was just gonna say that that makes your, sending harpua to to a business cat not not as bad.  

[00:33:11] Unknown:

I'm saying. I guess. But, that's Harris was, you know, Harris   we   I'm not gonna get too into it, but,   you know, Harris had his Harris was a writer for Parks and Rec and a writer you know, Harris was a prolific comedy writer   and a famous Fish fan. And,   yeah, he openly advocated for Trey to go to be because he, you know, he thought that he he enjoyed o two, o three, and he wanted that back.   But part of it was, I think, his stick.  

[00:33:41] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:33:43] Unknown:

So we get to this final we get to this album, and it is like the final album. You know? And when I look at their hiatus in o four, I do I call it permanent hiatus. I don't call it five year temporary hiatus because there was nothing temporary about it when it happened. And   last night, I actually watched a documentary about Coventry, which I went to.   It was a pretty good it was about an hour long. It was a guy that took his little camcorder,   really did capture Coventry.   That was the final festival, the final shows.   I think I'll link it to the show notes because   it's   you gotta realize how and it really captured how fucking sad it was. And by the way, like, you know, Trey has captured   basic captured using drugs, like, on stage, like, multiple times during during that one. Even in yeah. And even in that when like, it's so much that it's, like, not even they're not no one's trying to catch it.  

It's just in all these clothes.   You know? And it's kinda devastating to  

[00:34:41] Unknown:

watch. Yeah.   I I I've, I've avoided watching that video   for the reasons you're describing.  

[00:34:49] Unknown:

So yeah. So I guess all of this is set up for here we are at this last album. The final it's the final album, and it   I kinda hate it. You know? I I don't actually like, musically, I didn't really I don't really connect with it too much.   But once again, after hearing   after revisiting it   and in this Bitcoin context,   I don't know, man. I think there's something   interesting.   Okay? One, I think that stories about   prominent   people,   prominent   institutions who are the best at what they do   when they disappear,   you know, I think there's something relevant   to understand about that.  

Right?   And so   Phish disappeared,   and they left us this album to tell us really to tell us why. Right?   Just like Satoshi disappeared, left us at that last Bitcoin talk message and, you know, maybe   Fish's performance at the Hall of Fame inducting Genesis, doing Watcher of the Skies and No Reply at all. Mhmm.   You know, just capturing that essence. But, like, Phish disappeared   in 02/2004,   left us this album,   to just   left us the album in a really shitty   year of shows. Mhmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe we get into it.   And it so as I say all that,   the first song of the album   so they do something a little weird, though to me, Sense and Subtle Sounds is like one of my favorite all time fish songs. Okay. So I should say that. Now,   there are two sections of it. There's an intro, which is like a   kind of a weird, mischievous,   it's almost like you're getting scolded by somebody   in slow motion.  

It really is. The lyrics of that song is pretty introspective   about,   you know, if you would only,   like, really live in the moment and you only like, I think the words I don't have in front of me this one, but it's like, if you would only start to live one moment at a time,   I think, like, you would slowly   start to be surprised by the things you would find, you know, something of that of that nature, like sense you never notice and many subtle sounds and   Yeah. Etcetera.   And it's almost like a lecture.   Right?  

[00:37:20] Unknown:

It is. It's like a Buddhist lecture or something, meditation class.  

[00:37:26] Unknown:

Then for some reason,   the second movement of the song, which is   once again terrific and the best version of it, in my opinion,   was   canned in the show I was at, 02/2003.  

[00:37:39] Unknown:

That's great. And,  

[00:37:41] Unknown:

The Day I Met Trey,   incidentally.   And for some reason, that's track 11.   So the intro is track one, and the the rest of it is track 11.   I'll never understand why   that happened, but,   you know, it does give it it does give the end of the album   kind of some, you know, a little bit of life,   right, as opposed to just a   a depressing   account of what's going wrong.  

[00:38:14] Unknown:

Yeah. These last few tracks are kind of on the somber, slow tempo. Yeah. It gives the, brings some weight to the end of the album.  

[00:38:23] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, if you had any thoughts on this   on this one, there's there there are, like, three songs that really have all the meat, and then there's, like, the remainder have little suggestions.  

[00:38:34] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, the only thing I wanna point about sense and subtle sounds is,   I think it, you know, ties into the next album, joy, a little bit because   the lyrics go you'll you'll you know, if if you notice you   that we number every day.  

[00:38:52] Unknown:

Yes.   If you would only stop and notice that we number every day Yes. And allow the many moments left uncounted slip away.  

[00:39:00] Unknown:

Yeah. And if and and, basically, like,   it it alludes to, like, the fact that we number them is is completely pointless.   If the only moment is is the present moment   is basically the message.   But, again, the numbering part and then backwards down the number line, which is kinda how,   you know, big song off of the joy. Is that the first track called joy? Yes. Backwards? Yeah. So it's it is it it brings a little bit   of continuity.  

[00:39:29] Unknown:

Yeah. And, also, I look it's like look at undermine as the other bookend to joy.   Right? Joy brought in   brought in Bitcoin   2 thousand 9.   Right? Undermine   was   I mean, you might say, like, you might say that something happened in the world. Oh, so this is the thing we were talking about that I thought was interesting that,   you know, I'd like to imagine that whatever fish, you know, like, whatever fish experienced in 02/2004, like, the fish could have circled the drain for an indefinite amount of time. Right? Yeah. Like, people could have died. It could have been really bad. People did die.   And we're gonna get in this in this album. The people did die. Now you say people, you mean of the core four. Oh, right. Or the core six people are really, like, the close inner circle. But, like,   supposedly,   Trey's best friend died the first night of Vegas.  

I didn't know that. Yeah. And, like, you know, people were done. And that was, like   so between that,   you know, we didn't talk in o four. We didn't talk about Jesse Jarno writing the article about   how Phish just has become a a shit band. They can't even play their own songs.   And Trey took it to heart, listened back to the songs, and was like, yeah. We do suck. We're done.   Mhmm. This is not now now that the music is bad, we're just there's no point in doing this anymore. This is off they're like, there's no point   in keeping this thing going. Like, this thing going, it was like,   he they knew how damaging it was.  



[00:40:56] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:40:56] Unknown:

Right? There's no point keeping this thing going,   And they did they did call it quits. So, you know,   so some something, I just wanted to point out real quick. When I was looking up the I was googling   Undermind.   Did you know that there was a movie called Undermind released in 02/2003?  

[00:41:15] Unknown:

No.  

[00:41:17] Unknown:

Yeah. A psychological thriller.   I really wonder if there's a connection.  

[00:41:24] Unknown:

Oh, boy.  

[00:41:25] Unknown:

I have too many rabbit holes. That's a that's a rabbit hole. That is a rabbit hole in and of itself.   The song UnderMine,   I would say   not   you know,   first of all, the album version, I hate it. Oh, I I listened to it. I listened to it I like the live version. Today.  

[00:41:45] Unknown:

And I was I was just like, this is awful.   And, like Yeah. Like I don't know what they were doing. There was no effort, like, especially on the Fishman side of things. Like, the the patterns he developed subsequently after playing it live a few times were just are fantastic.   And it's just so you could see just, like, not much effort was put into it.  

[00:42:03] Unknown:

Yeah. But you know who crushed this song? You know who crushed   Tom Marshall? This is a Tom Marshall special.   Like, I'm sitting here looking at I'm looking at the lyrics, and,   you wanna know what my all time favorite Tom Marshall   creation is?   I hope one day we I wonder if one day we'll do this album, but,   the song Sing Monica.   Yeah. I do know the song. Yes. I'm just gonna put that out there. I I mean, so, like,   it's brilliant. It's a lyrical it's a lyrical masterpiece.   You know? And it's only it's like it's just wordplay. That's what I mean. It's it's just like Yes. Wordplay. Yeah. It's like word and sound, but it's wordplay with sound.   And,   that one, everything works. So here, you I mean, you just just to give you the listeners a taste. The lyrics go undecided,   undefined,   undisturbed   yet undermined,   relocated not retired,   reprimanded and rewired,   mystified and misshapen, misinformed but not mistaken,   reinvented,   redefined,   rearranged but not refined,   unrelenting,   understroked,   undeterred,   yet unprovoked   reinvented,   redefined,   rearranged,   but not refined   mystified and misshapen   misinformed, but not mistaken   undecided,   undefined.  

That's, to me, a great   that's a beautifully written song. Yeah. That's a Tom Marshall   special.   Yeah.   Kudos to Tom Marshall.   But you know what I feel so I I have one note   on the meaning that they're that they're conveying here, and I'm not gonna read every lyric to every song. Right? It's just this was, like, nice and short. Yeah. It's pretty short. I feel like they're saying in this song, and this is this title track. This is what they named the album. And, you know, it's it's useful to note that Joy was the title you know, the Joy the Joy title track had an enormous meaning   on the album Joy.  

This is the title track, and I feel like what they're just saying is they have no frame. They have   no control over what's going on. There there's something wrong. They can't,   you know, they can't do anything about it. It's like they can see there's a problem, but there's nothing they have no power to do anything about it. Mhmm.   Other than to just make cool sounding words about it.   Yeah. It's almost like they can conceptualize it, but they can't they're just they're helpless.  

[00:44:32] Unknown:

Yeah. That's a good really good insight.   That that's the, that's the best they could, you know, it's the best they could do   as far as bringing something   creative to the table  

[00:44:44] Unknown:

was in the lyrics. And I feel like that I feel like the connection was very similar in that way. It's almost like just just crying. You know, some ways just crying out. Like,   there's not you know, like, we can't do there's nothing we can do about it.   I see the connection, though I see I don't stare. Like, I'm not focused. I can't focus on   it. You know? I don't stare. I don't even wanna think about it for too long because it's too upsetting.  

[00:45:11] Unknown:

Yeah.   Before you said, I sing Monica, I thought you were gonna say mountains in the mist. But,  

[00:45:19] Unknown:

Yeah. No. That I do like that song too. Those lyrics are I do like that song. That's more, like, that's more meaningful, but, like, in terms of just a a a,   like, a   a tapestry of words.   Mhmm. And, like, phonetics, like, where you're you're tapping into the sound of the word, not just Like, limb by limb does this thing too, where he's like, left is where I always turn, left is where I'm forced to learn, left is where my walking takes, left alone with my mistakes. It's like, wow. That's great shit.  

[00:45:46] Unknown:

Yeah. It's like using all the homonym, the different definitions of the word side by side. But also the fact that left is just  

[00:45:52] Unknown:

wrong.  

[00:45:54] Unknown:

Wrong. You know? Right. The sinister. Yeah.   The sinister hand. Left is the wrong way. Yeah. The devil's   hand.  

[00:46:03] Unknown:

Did I tell did I tell,   did I tell a story here about,   my first dead show?   My first dead show in 1993,   and it was the second time I used acid.  

[00:46:15] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:46:16] Unknown:

And the situation I was in Landover, Maryland, the capital center.   And, like, the,   like, the lodging situation was very sketchy, so I decided I just decided I was gonna drive home to Philly   at, like, at two in the morning. Basically, it was just like,   I'm driving home. I don't I don't even care what my I don't even know what my condition is. I just made that decision.   And,   my rule my my way I got home was I I established a rule that I would use my entire life,   which is when in doubt, make a left.   And I think that's why the song limb by limb has always resonated with me. Because he said left is where I always turn. I was like, yeah. Me too. And I'm in doubt.   Left is where I'm forced to learn.  



[00:47:03] Unknown:

That's that's that's so good. And and and when you said I didn't you didn't know what your condition was, I I have to point out, I I realized a couple weeks ago that,   the song,   to see what my condition is in is actually a Kenny Rogers song.  

[00:47:19] Unknown:

Yeah. That's ringing a bell to see what my condition is in. Yeah. It's in the Big Lebowski.  

[00:47:24] Unknown:

Yeah. Okay. You know, where where it made a comeback.   But,   Kenny Rogers   knew he was a big psychedelic guy at one point.  

[00:47:33] Unknown:

Makes sense.   The island's in the stream, man.   Good shit there.  

[00:47:40] Unknown:

I can check it out.  

[00:47:42] Unknown:

You know, even Kenny Rogers, growing up with Kenny growing up, like, listening to Kenny Rogers, you realize what they took from us, like, the great music. Where the where is the Kenny Rogers   of, like, today?  

[00:47:54] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:47:56] Unknown:

You know? It should be some legend. Yeah.   Go ahead. Yeah. I'm just saying, like, there's it should have been some legend we had in the eighties that   aged really well   and kept making   like, once every five years, would put out some banger within, like, a female   another female icon.   We don't have any of that.  

[00:48:19] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, we just have fish. That's all we that's that's all we got.  

[00:48:23] Unknown:

It's kinda true.  

[00:48:25] Unknown:

Loosely from the eighties.  

[00:48:29] Unknown:

Yeah. Kenny Rogers, man. I wonder if there's a connection with   Fish somehow. I never thought I never thought about it.   Anyhow,   moving on.   A song I heard the ocean sing is by far the best song on this album.   It's   one of the best songs in my opinion to come out of this whole era.  

[00:48:51] Unknown:

It's  

[00:48:52] Unknown:

probably   the,   you know,   it's probably the best song to hear at a show consistently.   I don't really know what the lyrics even are, and I didn't haven't looked at them. I don't like, I feel like the song isn't even that sad. It's just a banger, and Yeah. Therefore, probably isn't carrying much signal. You know?  

[00:49:15] Unknown:

That's a good point. They are kind of, mutually exclusive.  

[00:49:20] Unknown:

It's just yeah. It is. Like, that song is incredible.  

[00:49:23] Unknown:

Yeah.   I'm pulling it up just for   shining light in the darkness deep.   I prayed a prayer into the tide, and both It's a meaningless poem. My sleep. Yeah.   Alright. Yeah. There's not much here.  

[00:49:42] Unknown:

Nothing that really resonates.  

[00:49:44] Unknown:

But it's about the themes, which points to your   you know, the overall theme of the album seems to be.  

[00:49:52] Unknown:

Contrary probably to what many people   who listen to this think, I don't try to reach too hard   for meaning.   Like, when I   it never looks like I do.   But that's only because when I see something,   and I have a lot of confidence in it,   even though it's even though it sounds like I'm reaching.   But like,   you know, I could take a lyric in this song, a song I heard the ocean sing where   in the chorus they say, how can I answer the questions I know?   And I might say, well, you know, maybe that's something we ask ourselves a lot, you know, in the Bitcoin space. But, like, I don't know. I just honestly don't feel anything.   I feel literally nothing when I read these lyrics,   so I'm just concluding.  

So just so you guys know, there is a line, you know, there is a line and a methodology   to when I get woken up to decide that there really is a connection.   You   know? And usually if the song is a total banger   on a terrible   on a terrible album, like, okay, that song has got no signal whatsoever.   Right. And it is a banger.   Army of One. Okay. That now now we're getting into,   now we're getting into some signal in my opinion.   I love that. Army of One.  

[00:51:12] Unknown:

Yeah. Go ahead. Army of One.  

[00:51:14] Unknown:

So, like,   this one is like, well, as a Bitcoiner, this resonates so much with me. You know, I always say, like,   Bitcoin is not is a team sport.   You can't do it alone.   Army of One is about basically, feels like   I don't even know what it's about. Like, I've read the lyrics a bunch of times. Mhmm. It seems like they're it seems like a song that just warns that bad times are ahead. And so enjoy the little   any little thing that you can enjoy,   enjoy it because things are about to get really, really bad.  

[00:51:48] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:51:49] Unknown:

Right. Any ray of light, soak it in.   Right? Soak it in while you can. Winter is on.   Right?   Yeah.   But I view it I I view it, though, as, like, also army of one is called that because it's it's like it's you against the world.   You are now you know, you're not part of a band. You're a singular   person   that is in a lot of trouble.   Right? Yeah. And it's like you can't even you can't your boys, none of it none of it is gonna save you.   And it's like, you know, I you know,   we   it just contrasts   with this thing that is in a network.   Right? And what what Fish made great what made Fish great was the network.  

Right. And what makes Bitcoin work and what makes it win is the network.   Right? So army of one is really going to be the national anthem of somebody losing  

[00:52:47] Unknown:

in Yeah. It all starts these games. It all starts with the individual. Right? And,   I I love and, again, I love these lyrics, and I'm   I really shouldn't love them. I like   you know, the   calling, you know, the weather up in Northern   North America, the northern dilemma, I think, is I've never I had never heard that for framing before, and I and I still use it today. Like, when people talk about, like, oh, yeah. It's so cold. I was like, yeah. It's the northern dilemma. You know? Like, it and I think what that's saying is, like,   you know,   where you have hard winters, you do have amazing springs and falls, and it it's you do get to experience the the cycle of life more so than if you lived in a more tropical environment.  

Yeah.  

[00:53:32] Unknown:

And then There's no verse here where you wake up in springtime and things are nice.  

[00:53:37] Unknown:

Right.   And at the end of the day, like, we all, you know, we are we all are   individuals. We we we we ashes to ashes, dust to dust. You know, we do die. We all die alone.   And it points to you how important it is to to, have your crew, have your have your relationships and your family.  

[00:53:56] Unknown:

Totally. And this song is also a banger. I have to say I love it. Mhmm.   It's it's a great song, but, you know,   army of one isn't gonna get it done.   You know? Right? We are individuals, and it's like it is individuals that matter.   But army of one isn't gonna cut it.   That's sort of, like, my takeaway and, like Yep.   You know?   I feel like how I live in the in this world, particularly, like, as a Bitcoiner is,   like, I'm trying to build what fish built. I want   something that I want a world where me and my friends can just hang out and do our thing, like, forever and have a good time. Yeah.  

[00:54:37] Unknown:

No. That's that's that's the mission, man. That really is. And,   yeah, it's so obvious to people that are here for that and and the ones that aren't.  

[00:54:45] Unknown:

Now the first round that they created got out of control and had to be destroyed.  

[00:54:51] Unknown:

Right? Point. Yeah.   That was, like, the hat you it was like the, the HashCash version or whatever you wanna point to before Bitcoin.  

[00:55:00] Unknown:

Yeah. Now look. What about what's I'm just doing some simple math here. Right? You go if you go,   you know, '84   to   o four is twenty years. Right?   So we're almost, like, we're almost back at twenty years. Yeah. So   and we're going pretty good.  

[00:55:18] Unknown:

I think so.  

[00:55:20] Unknown:

Okay. So now we get to the crown jewel. One of the crown jewels of the from from a signal perspective.   K?   Crowd control.   Not a banger.   Not a song that musically speaks nothing to me.   But lyrically,   it's it's it's a it's,   God. God. It it's it's heavy.  

[00:55:46] Unknown:

It's really heavy. And this is usually an opener. Right? Whenever they've played it live?   Is that is that accurate?  

[00:55:55] Unknown:

I I mean, is it accurate? I guess we can look it up. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm pulling it up now.  

[00:56:01] Unknown:

No. No. They've played   it they've played it in second sets.   But mainly   Do they still play it? Last, like, 20 times they've played it.   There is no there is no song before. There's just asterisks.   So for the most part, after after the first three or four times they've played it, it's been an opener show opener.  

[00:56:22] Unknown:

It's like they play it once a year. So it's like it's barely on life support.   Right?   Yep. Pretty pretty much on life support. You know what? If I were them, I I sometimes I don't know how they play songs from this era like this. I don't I don't even get it.   You know?   But they do.   Like, it's same for the same reason. Like, I don't really care to listen to the I don't like it because it's depressing and it's sad.   Right?   Yeah. But maybe this is a bit of a triumph now because they have   they really did slay the demon. So let's let's talk about this song. Okay?  

[00:56:58] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:57:00] Unknown:

Probably not gonna read every lyric here, but we're definitely read some. Right? So it's just the song starts.   Listen, now I'm talking. I've been here for weeks. That's already like,   Alright. This is like Trey basically declaring like, I have shit to say. You better you are now This, you need to listen to.   Listen, now I'm talking. I've been here for weeks waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet.   The world around me is turning, but I'm just standing still.   The time has come for changes. Do something or I will.   Yeah.  

You know, like, that's like a massive declaration in 02/2004   of, like,   dude, this has gotten out of control.   Right? The song is called crowd control.   Right? He's calling the crowd he's calling out all the fans and saying, listen, this you guys, we've all made a fucking mess. Okay? Mhmm. But, like, I'm I'm the one here. This is my party.   Right?   I, like, I I'm responsible   for everything.   Yeah. You know? And I think at some point in time, it really did occur to Trey. Right? It's like like, I'm responsible for all of this.  

[00:58:09] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:58:10] Unknown:

And I'm not gonna like,   you know,   you in '2 prior to 02/2004, the precedent was the Grateful Dead, and they never made this decision.   So I think people just assumed this would go on forever.   And they underestimated   Trey's character.  

[00:58:27] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:58:29] Unknown:

Right? They underestimated   his will,   right, to watch,   to basically take responsibility   for a total, like, a total sinking ship where people's lives are being ruined, destroyed,   and, like, deleted.  

[00:58:44] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:58:45] Unknown:

And he is saying, he's really saying in this song, time has come for changes. Do something or I will.   And do you remember the date of the announcement?   Like,  

[00:58:56] Unknown:

do you still recall that or do you remember? I'm trying I'm trying to remember when they did it.  

[00:59:01] Unknown:

Because this album was released this album was released 06/15/2004.   That was definitely  

[00:59:09] Unknown:

it was after the announcement. Had to be after. But but but the fans had to know they were working on the album.  

[00:59:15] Unknown:

No. Right. But this is when he this is when,   like, the declaration   went out.  

[00:59:21] Unknown:

I see. Right?  

[00:59:23] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, it's already too late.   Now the first time the song was played   was,   it appears to be 02/1128.   Nassau Coliseum.   So,   you know, and it was so it was played and it was played on, 04/15/2004,   which  

[00:59:46] Unknown:

was I was actually I was at that Nassau Show.  

[00:59:51] Unknown:

Yeah. I was at the I was at the 02/2004 show at Thomas And Mack Center.  

[00:59:56] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:59:57] Unknown:

Cool. So that was those that was the three day Vegas run where horrible things took place.   Mhmm. But, anyhoo so okay. So he's so the he the the song had been played.   Right? So the declaration   had been made.   And then they they   release UnderMine,   June 15, and then,   I see they play it on June 18 at, Keyspann Park, which I believe was the Brooklyn show that was in the movie theaters.  

[01:00:29] Unknown:

Yep.  

[01:00:32] Unknown:

So this   song   was   very heavy. Okay.   So there's a couple other lyrics that really stand out.   Here he goes,   sisters, brothers all around you, there's a devil in the crowd.   Meet his eye and it's the end of time. If you're praying, don't be loud.   This line saying there's a devil in the crowd is is real really hits hard.  

[01:01:02] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:01:03] Unknown:

Because,   you know,   the one thing we've talked about a lot   is that   fish fish will ride or die with their audience. Like, they really will ride or die   with the fans.   You know?   Mhmm. They're very connected to them. Any you know, whatever it is that's going on, they seem to feel it. Right?   We talked about how they go on hiatuses   seemingly at perfect time right before the world goes to shit because they, you know, maybe we seem to feel it first.   Yeah. But this idea that there's a devil in the crowd, it's almost like Trey saying,   like, dude, what do you want me to do? Like, you guys have to stop being   you   like, like, you get this feeling, like, every time they try to do something, like, there's just too many   dirt bags,   too many fucking dirt balls that won't give the party up,   and it's impossible to change.  



[01:01:59] Unknown:

And that was real, right, on on the band side of the   tour equation. Right?   At least, my understanding was that Brad Sands   and I don't even know what I was he a tour manager? Do you know what Brad's job  

[01:02:14] Unknown:

was? He was their manager. You know what's funny? In the Chuck Dust reprise from 1996  

[01:02:19] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:02:21] Unknown:

I forgot what they called There was some title that he had. They thanked him in part of that reprise.   You know, so innocent.  

[01:02:29] Unknown:

Yeah.   I just love when I listen to that, the one that you, played out where, like, it was clear that when they started playing Choctaw's reprise that somebody in the front row   was, like, asking Trey, like, what song is this?   Because he says, like, is this Choctaw's reprise? Like, he actually says, is this Choctaw's torture reprise? So then I was like, the only reason why he did that is is somebody was was, like, needed to write it down and and, like, had to have the information   immediately.  

[01:02:57] Unknown:

I mean, we so you you go from you go from the love that he's clearly showing everybody in 1996.   Yeah.   Which sorry. 1994.   The love he gave to, Amy Skelton and Greenpeace Mike.  

[01:03:12] Unknown:

I know. The Greenpeace, I I caught that. Yeah. And,  

[01:03:16] Unknown:

you know, now in 02/2004,   there's a lyric in a in a song that he's clearly saying, listen now I'm talking, there's that there's a devil in the crowd. Yep.   Like,   dude, I knew this in 1998.   Right? I I saw the devil in the crowd, and I felt it. Right? And this is Yeah. One of them.   Yeah. And an ointment. I felt it all the you know, I mean, we all felt it. And then, you know, like,   this is part of, like, you go on you go on the Internet   in   1998,   '90 '9, '2 thousand, all these years, and you start   you know, you see the lag. Like, two years after you have this feeling, you start reading these stories, you know, like, oh, man. Fish is really having serious problems with with drugs.   And and it's not just them. It's, like, everybody around. And it's not everyone in the band either, by the way. But it's   you know? Right. When it's Trey, it may as well be everybody.  

But it was I mean, I apparently,   I I wasn't gonna get to this until we got to AccessMe.   But,   it should be noted that Mike was the one guy maybe who isn't really known to have had   any real problems in in in I don't know if you knew this, Jason, but in 02/2004, he was   adamant   adamant   that they,   stay.   They they stay a band.   He Mike was really to it. He couldn't He just was fit on the thing. Mike Mike was very hurt and did not want the band to end. Mike had his own, you know, his own musical future ahead of him.   And he didn't, you know, he it's not like Mike was a bad friend or anything like that. It's just that Mike   was Mike was, like, okay.  

And Mike was put on this earth to play music in this band. Right? Right. Right. And so he just he wanted to keep it going the same way he always wanted to keep it going, same way he wants to keep it going now.   Yeah. And I don't think Mike gets enough yeah. He doesn't get enough credit   for   a, you know, I guess, not not   not having such public problems, I guess, that we all know about it. Yeah. There was one big public problem. There was one big one, which I don't we won't cover it we won't cover it today, but, it's it's No. We will cover it one day, though.   You know, I because I think it's yeah. I mean, it is relevant. It's just it is relevant to discuss. Okay. It is relevant. Anybody who knows what we're talk it's just if you know, you know.  

Hide your kids. Hide your kids. Yeah. I was wondering if you knew Jason, so now I know where you are on this. And this is good. Now I can think we can think about doing an episode on it. But from a musical standpoint   and from a personal standpoint, Mike just you know,   Mike did not wanna call it quits.  

[01:06:03] Unknown:

Well, I hope that when Mike voiced that sentiment,   Trey's response was, well, maybe you shouldn't have told me I played too many notes.  

[01:06:12] Unknown:

I think I I mean, look, dude.   It is what it is, you know. And, you know, in in so many ways, it's miraculous.   It's such a miracle that they did come back. And this is like It really is. I I really can't convey I I can't convey it to somebody   to people who just woke up now, found out about fish, knew there was this history,   you know, and saw they went away in o four, but came back in o nine. Like, I just I can't Yeah. Yeah. I can't convey enough how over how over it was.  

[01:06:43] Unknown:

Yes. It was over. And and, like, I I told I shared   on the pod and with you that I went deep into the catalog because I was like, man, like, this is all I'm gonna all I have are these audience recordings.   Yeah. You know? And and and I found a guy who had a database who maintained a server with, like, literally every   fish show and every dead show for that matter. But it it wasn't just I was just going through stuff.   And here's what I've realized, and I think I just realized in this moment just now as you said that,   was that   bands don't do them. Bands don't break up and come back.  



[01:07:19] Unknown:

No.  

[01:07:19] Unknown:

Only and I'm realizing that only a band, only   Phish, because there's no other band like Phish.   Yeah. Only Phish  

[01:07:27] Unknown:

has had the ability to do it and be Such a great insight. It's such a great such a good insight, dude.   Like, it's true because usually the breakup   is the thing that would drive the band members apart forever.   Right. Because of the bitterness. Nobody is on the same because no one's gonna be on the same page.   Right? It's not like everybody goes through,   drug addiction   at the same time, at the same pace, and hits bottom at the same time, and they all agree, you know, hey, like a like a band. We're all in sync, and now this is our bottom, so let's just, you know, stop the band.   No, dude. It was like everybody was in their own   everybody was in their own stage of this thing.  

But, you know,   part of it is just because, like, you know, the the Trey is the leader and which it's just Trey always goes as the band goes, and sometimes it's good for everybody else to understand that, and everybody else does understand that. Right? There's nobody in FISH that doesn't understand that Trey is the guy.   Right?   It is what it is, and,   I think that is part of it. And the other part of it is how close they really are. You know? It's just like   it is a miracle.   It is an absolute miracle. So it was   like again, it wasn't just the fact that it was so over.  

They were in a lot of trouble.   And it's miraculous that they all fought through it and got out of it. Yeah. It's miraculous that John Fishman got through his issues.   You know, he had alcohol problems.  

[01:08:56] Unknown:

Mhmm. And  

[01:08:57] Unknown:

they were obvious.   Page had   well known drug problem and,   you know,   got through they all got through it in a similar time, but Trey's was so public.   Yeah. And was he got arrested. Remember?   Before he got arrested, dude, there were stories of, him   in, like, like, doing some show at the Roseland Ballroom   and his dad showing up   and, like, he and his dad getting into some epic   argument and fight and, like,   carrying it over into the street. Like, Trey was just absolutely circling the drain into into   just fucking loser   being a fucking loser   who happened to be a great musician,   but he was just circling the drain so badly. And it was so public and embarrassing. This is another reason why I just I don't like going back and listening to the to the songs of that era because it's it was so dark   and it was really painful to go through   for all of us. And we were reading about it. This is like,   Trey, sorry, fish made their bones on the internet. Right? They just coincided with the birth of the internet.  

Right? Publicly, they just coincided with it, and it made it made them everything they are in a certain way. Yeah. And it also made public everything that was going on.  

[01:10:23] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:10:24] Unknown:

Yeah. Especially   with Trey.   Because he's you know, Trey has that kind of personality where he doesn't give a shit. Right? He's out in front. He's always out in front.   And,   so, like, people just have to know. It wasn't   02/2004,   it got worse. It really did like, it really got worse. Yeah.   And then he got arrested.   He got arrested in, like, February.   '2 thousand '6. That's how long that's how long it went.   It was two really, really dark, difficult years.   So,   you know, you go back to the song crowd control. It was like you can this is the strongest cry for help. I mean, so here we go to the end in the,   maybe it's the bridge of the song where he says, it's crowded in the lowland,   but the fools stay on the Hill.  

You control us now. You have the reins. Do something or we will.  

[01:11:23] Unknown:

Yep.  

[01:11:24] Unknown:

So show us why we came here before we lay on the ground. Give it to us loud and clear. Make the devil turn around.   End of song. Oh, good.   Like, it's incredible   that it's incredible that he's I hadn't, like, I didn't realize   they were communicating something so clearly. Yeah. Because I was I mean, there's that's so clear.   Yeah.   Okay. So then we get to a couple of,   I don't know,   kinda nothing burgers in my opinion. Maggie's revenge, just like a it's like a record's mailbox. That that's a Fishman that's a Fishman song. That's,  

[01:12:03] Unknown:

usually,   fun to listen to, but a throwaway.  

[01:12:07] Unknown:

The song Nothing is a song I wish was never written, to be honest. I I Yeah. I actually hate it. I don't even know what it is. I I do I do know what it is. So you wanna hear it? So an interesting little aside.   Sure.   One of, you know, one of the things that Trey   always dreamed of doing was writing for Broadway.   And   that dream was realized.   Trey, yeah.   That dream was realized. And, apparently, during while he was in rehab,   he had he he wrote the score for a Broadway musical that called Hands on a Hardbody. Are you aware of this?  

[01:12:44] Unknown:

I am not.  

[01:12:45] Unknown:

Ah.   So there was a musical called Hands on a Hardbody,   and it was Trey wrote the score. It was it ran on Broadway,   and Trey wrote the all the music for it.   I did see it.   Nothing was a song in this musical, so he included it. It must have meant something to him. Gonna hate it so much.   It must have meant something to him, though. So the mute the song the musical Hands on Hard Body was about I don't know if you remember this thing in the nineties where there was a contest about   a bunch of people had their hands on a truck, and whoever could keep their hands on it the longest won the truck.   Yep. Right. So that was what that is essentially what the play was.  

It was about that.   It was not very good,   and it didn't last very long. It only lasted   something like six months.   I did get to go see it.   You know, it wasn't too memorable,   you know. Okay. Other than the fact that I was like, oh, this is where nothing is now.   It's now it's now in this it's now in this play.   It's just one of those, like, you know, not everything was great.   This is, like, yeah, this is a point I want to make about this era.   There was there existed   incredible music.   Okay?   Like the,   Nassau,   Destiny   Unbound, I think, comes to mind. You know? And a lot of things, I told you about. Like, yeah, they would open a show with, like, nineteen minute EMR,   things like that. Like, there   existed incredible music, but there existed   a lot of lazy trash too. Mhmm. And I'm not gonna be so pretentious to call a a song of his lazy trash. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna but I'm just saying that there were things there that did not   that, like, if I was discovering fish in this time, there would be a much more proportion of things I didn't   care for.  

Whereas, like, the era I got into it, it was basically a %   of a % was, like, incredible.  

[01:14:57] Unknown:

Yep. Well, I have to say I never heard the the the only time period I've ever heard this phrase I'm gonna say used was during this time period, which was they mailed it in.  

[01:15:08] Unknown:

I guess on some things, they probably did.   I don't know if they know they I don't know if they know they were mailing it in. I think that maybe maybe it's one of those things where   they have this work ethic   and a trust in that things are good.   And I think there's just there were more things that weren't good that they trusted were good.   I don't, you know, I don't I don't think they ever mailed it in to be honest. I think they were I believe they were always sincerely acting in the best of their ability,   but   maybe they weren't applying such strict standards as say,   you know,   the stories of Trey in 1993   where he would finish a show,   he would go to some band's after show and then he would spend from like two in the morning to four in the morning just writing the set list for the next night.  



[01:15:59] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:16:00] Unknown:

You know, like, that kind of attention to detail. I mean, you'd be crazy to think yeah. I mean, and this was, like, you know, they weren't using any drugs or anything. They were just they were just so focused on succeeding.  

[01:16:11] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:16:14] Unknown:

So anyway, nothing is a nothing.   But then we get to two versions of me, which I which I really wanna talk about.  

[01:16:21] Unknown:

Yeah. I actually did a little bit of research for this one.  

[01:16:25] Unknown:

Yeah.   Great song, by the way. So it's this is going to be an exception because it's a great song   and there's like a lot of meaning here. And this is maybe like if crowd control was just like the ultimatum.   Two versions of me is, like,   really explaining   what, like, what is going on.  

[01:16:45] Unknown:

Yeah.   So when we when we,   when we chatted, you mentioned the,   and I'll let you get into the lyrics a little bit with the countdown.   I I would just say I just wanna plant a seed. I wanna expand on on the   some connections I have with that with that structure.  

[01:17:08] Unknown:

Yeah. Go ahead.  

[01:17:10] Unknown:

Yeah. So   when I when I didn't realize that the song does, like, the kinda ten ten to one countdown,   But it reminded me, and I didn't know. I had to look it up, but,   I'm not a huge Dave Matthews Band fan   mainly because their fans are fucking trash.   But I will say that early early most of early Dave Matthews Band music is pretty pretty good, like, I would say the first four albums.  

[01:17:36] Unknown:

I love yeah. I I actually I love his first couple of albums.   I never I've I've never seen him. So, like, I've never been to a show. I I can't say I've never seen him. He's shown up at the shows.  

[01:17:49] Unknown:

If you go to I'll I'll just put it this way. There's probably two fan bases that have the worst reputations. One of them is no longer because Jimmy Buffett died,   but,   is is Dave Matthews. They're just a younger version of, the same type of of people that get way too drunk for a show and then just, like, you can't even enter they can't even, like,  

[01:18:09] Unknown:

keep their Dude, shout out to super stomach. Dude, shout out to super fan super fan super Dave Matthews fan, Mike Germano.  

[01:18:16] Unknown:

Okay. Okay.  

[01:18:18] Unknown:

He actually I mean, and he has stories, dude. He's got stories. He was he's as he's as big of part of that Dave Matthews scene as he gets.  

[01:18:27] Unknown:

I would love to hear stories.   But,   I remember on under the table   under the table and dreaming  

[01:18:34] Unknown:

Great  

[01:18:36] Unknown:

which,   and I know that actually Trey Trey and Dave were friends at some point, which may have been during his drug use, which they're Oh, they're great friends, and there's many YouTube videos of both of them coked out like crazy going on Yeah. Different shows, and it's it's it's  

[01:18:52] Unknown:

fucking disturbing.  

[01:18:54] Unknown:

Yeah. I have a fish friend that attributes  

[01:18:57] Unknown:

Trey's downfall to Dave Matthews, but I don't think it's that simple. Yeah. I know people well, people love to do this, by the way. They love to blame Chris Rock. Not Chris Rock, Kid Rock. Sorry. They love to blame Kid Rock. They love to blame Les Claypool. Like, they like, dude, Trey is   an alpha male. And this dude   took it like, he destroyed himself all on his own,   and he resurrected himself   on his own. He did it all through his strength,   and it's nobody's fault but his. Yeah. Exactly. He's, extreme  

[01:19:28] Unknown:

he has extreme ownership of his life as they say. So, anyway, typical situation is a song under the table and dreaming. And when I   was into the band and when I was in high school before I went to my first show and   kinda started fading out,   typical situation is a very similar structure, and it goes to this countdown kind of very similar lyric structure.   Yeah. And I learned at some point that it was inspired by a poem   by Robert   Dedrick   called prayer in the Pentagon.   And it's a fame it's a famous piece.   Like, people obviously drew the connection. So I just wanted to throw that out there that there is this,   there is this kind of artistic use of of of counting down that has,   I guess, been   referred to mainly as this this one piece being the source of that?  



[01:20:24] Unknown:

You know what Dave Matthews did really well? Not to make this about him, but he he did really well in those albums was he would have these really dark,   sad themes that would transition into these, like, triumphant.   And I always found I always admired that. I thought that was, like, you know, in a way,   very Phish relatable.   But, like, he was really like, Fish was really had the tension in release, whereas he had these   really dark minor,   you know,   minor themes that would transition into glorious   major,   you   know, resolution.  

I always liked that. And, you know, actually, one of my favorite all time moments of Trey's guitar playing   was on a cup I got this filler. We talk about filler on cassettes.   But, Roseland Ballroom,   it was a Dave Matthews show and Trey and John Popper are but they're both there for all along the watchtower.   And Okay. You can dude, you could tell that Trey,   when he starts coming in,   feels like he doesn't belong there or feel that feels very wrong.   And you see him just go from that   to just absolute crushing.   You have to watch the whole thing happen. It's amazing or you listen to the whole thing happen. It's quite a triumph.  



[01:21:45] Unknown:

Interesting. You'll have to check that out.  

[01:21:47] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm gonna have to dig that up and try to, and try to like it. Link that. That'd be cool.   So two versions of me.   Yes. There's a countdown.   I think this is when when I think of this song and when I think about Bitcoin   right?   So, like, what are we what are we doing here?   I think that   so I think that the two versions of me that he is writing about   is a there's a dead version and an alive version. Yeah. Yeah. And they're competing with each other.   So, like, the dead version is trying to, like, kill him.   Right? Right. The live version is, like, fighting for his life. Right?  



[01:22:26] Unknown:

Exactly.  

[01:22:27] Unknown:

And maybe in Bitcoin, it's like there's an NPC, there's, like, the person of us that just yearns to take the blue pill or I guess,   you know, live a happy life   versus   the alive version who understands   how hard the world is, but, like, that gives us life. Right?  

[01:22:46] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:22:48] Unknown:

So,   yeah, this   that that's that struggle. Right? Between it's like the you hear the live version of him   pleading   with, you know, the dead version.   Right?  

[01:23:04] Unknown:

Like Yeah. Especially at the six.  

[01:23:08] Unknown:

Well, right. So what made me feel like   oh, and, you know, I was so, like also, by the way, from a general kind of shallow   Bitcoin perspective, when I first heard the song, and I didn't really think it was that deep, I thought of double spending   two versions of me.  

[01:23:25] Unknown:

Yeah. That's good.  

[01:23:27] Unknown:

Yeah. I thought of   yeah. Right?   That kind of thing. Yep.   But also so, like, this song really,   like, this song predicts like, this song has a line. It's like, oh, now water's run free. No more fish in the sea. Yeah. You know, it's it's pretty dark. Right?   Yeah. Pretty dark. And,   you know, to me, what confirms the this idea that it's this dead versus alive   thing is when   he counts down six feet underneath, five fingers don't reach. So that's just like, oh my god. That's pretty clear. Right? There's a dead guy already   buried,   and the alive guy is trying to he can't even reach him. Right? Right. Four seconds, it seems,   for all of our dreams, three oceans away, two children at play too busy to see   two versions of me.  

And then there's this other lyric that says one more name on the slate, one less minute to wait.   Yeah. And I I think,   I mean, I think that's about the people who are dying in the scene. Like there are people there, like   it was known that I think one of Trey's best friends died in Vegas the first night, April 15.   One more name on the slate is, like, one more name on the tombstone. Right? Yeah.   And then, like, one last minute to wait, like, we gotta do something about this now. And then the lyric, one more bottle is dry, one less reason to try. That's just, like, that's the coda on the whole   thing. Yeah. So, like, it's hard not to get,   you know,   kind of emotional.  



[01:25:08] Unknown:

Yeah. All feels on that. Yeah. On that one. Yeah.  

[01:25:12] Unknown:

Any more on that one? That was one of the that was one of the bigger ones.   Okay. I wanna talk about AccessMe now for a second. Okay.   Okay.   So,   you know, I've said Mike maybe isn't the guy that carrying the most signal in the band.   Yes. But be because he's the only sober one   at this moment,   I think he's actually carrying the most signal.  

[01:25:38] Unknown:

Yeah. And It makes total sense in this context.  

[01:25:41] Unknown:

And in this context, the song's called Access Me. Right? I feel like it's it's like, you know, I think of Hal Finney running Bitcoin,   and, you know, we've talked about all those connections.   Right? Yeah.   Access Me. I've  

[01:25:57] Unknown:

always loved this I've always loved this song.   I and I'm not a huge fan of my of typically Mike's stuff, but I'll I'll let you go on. But I I just wanted to share that. I I always thought this song was great. Yeah. I mean, it's a love song. It's very Mike, where the words are weird.  

[01:26:13] Unknown:

Right? And it's classic it's kinda classic Mike, where other words are weird and seem meaningless and seem dumb, but the basic message is access me. Like, this could be this song could have been,   you know, written   by Bitcoin.   Yeah. To say, you know, in in 02/2004,   it said, you know, guess what? I know things seem dark right now.   Right? Things must things seem really dark. But   somehow,   someway, by the miracles of the universe,   these guys are gonna get their shit together. Not only that.   Right?   But there may be a guy   already working on,   you know, something that's gonna improve the world. Right? Like, that's actually like,   think think about how dark things were this time at this time, but also there was no, like,   there's no hope go like that that people have now with Bitcoin. There's no hope.  

But, like, there was somebody working. I don't know if he was working on it in 02/2004.   He was at least thinking about it.   Yeah. I mean, I don't know when I mean, we don't know when we have no idea. When was the first Bitcoin talk post? There's an allusion  

[01:27:25] Unknown:

to Satoshi saying that he had been working on Bitcoin for, like, two years or so   before he released it. There's a bit there's a Bitcoin talk post that says that. Like, I've been working on this for a couple of years or something something along those lines.  

[01:27:39] Unknown:

Yeah. Okay. So maybe when Trey got arrested, Satoshi was like, okay. Maybe it's time to   maybe it's time to get to work on this thing and bring a stand back. These lyrics,  

[01:27:48] Unknown:

and this could be a song written by the network.  

[01:27:53] Unknown:

That's what it feels like. Yeah. That's what I was saying. If it's so I know it feels just, like, gay to say  

[01:27:59] Unknown:

that. But I don't think so, man. Consider it. You know, there's there's the upper case, you know, capital b Bitcoin network. That that could be the that that could Bitcoin could have written this song.  

[01:28:12] Unknown:

And, you know, so I'm looking at the last   lyric,   the last two lines. Be tall. Yeah. The last two lines. So it says, and you don't have to open up the secrets of your soul.   But if that's the place you'd want but if that's the place you want me, I'd I'd be glad to pay the toll.  

[01:28:29] Unknown:

Yep.   I just in the first line, like, I remember I mentioned I I linked our podcast in a fish group, a large fish group, and somebody freaked out. And I, like, I, like, I deleted it. Like, first time I came over, I was bitten by your dog. It's so good.  

[01:28:45] Unknown:

Yeah. You weren't even there because you were walking in the fog. He's, like, basically saying you were an MPC.   Yeah. You know?   It's   I I call you up and beg and plead and beg and talk to your machine.  

[01:28:58] Unknown:

Yep.  

[01:29:00] Unknown:

My friend say not to bother when you're acting pretty mean, so talking about, you know, the toxic   the toxic,   maxis.   Yep. But,   you know, the basic lyric here is access me.  

[01:29:13] Unknown:

Yeah. I just want access to the inside of your heart.  

[01:29:18] Unknown:

So, you know, it's it's it's   it's just strange. And then so after Access Me, we find the real sense and subtle sounds, the end. Yep.   Okay. And then we have something that a song, honestly, I'd never heard until I   literally watched the Walter Riske recap of this album, tomorrow's song.  

[01:29:35] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:29:36] Unknown:

Do you even know anything about what what is it worth discussing?  

[01:29:41] Unknown:

I don't I didn't even I didn't even look it up. Like, I didn't even look it up to do this thing. I mean, I've definitely heard it because I used to listen to this album, like, on CD.   And,   but it's not ringing a bell.  

[01:29:56] Unknown:

Yeah.   It was played basically one time, which was happens to be in 02/2009.  

[01:30:03] Unknown:

Interesting.  

[01:30:07] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. How about that? I know it was Other than the fact so, I mean, I guess, the only interesting thing I'll say about it is that   whatever it meant in 02/2004,   they never played it.   It is called the normalcy. Right. So it's I just clicked on the lyrics.  

[01:30:24] Unknown:

Yeah. It's like a, it's like a rhythmic it's more of a rhythmic chant kinda thing.  

[01:30:30] Unknown:

But it's a view to the future,   which at in 02/2004,   they never played it. Right? Because their future was   was nothing. So   but interestingly,   in 02/2009 when they came back, this song had a life, at least for one show.  

[01:30:47] Unknown:

Interesting.  

[01:30:50] Unknown:

Okay. As we wind down, we are rounding third base here. We are.   And   we go to  

[01:30:58] Unknown:

Secret Smile, which is a really Sorry. I I I had to check. I hate to interrupt. Sorry. Oh, good. They they played tomorrow's song in the same show that they, debuted golden age.  

[01:31:09] Unknown:

That's interesting.   Yeah. So All very interesting.  

[01:31:17] Unknown:

Go ahead. So  

[01:31:20] Unknown:

Secret Smile,   man, people should people that's a song   You should go to the album and listen to it.   This album has no production quality at all.   And when I say that, I don't say that to disparage it. I say that to say that the band just did it the way they did it.   And   as like, they were clear like like, Trey could barely get the words out. It's so sad. It was, like, almost like them trying to get through waiting in the velvet sea at Coventry   where they couldn't even get the words out. And his voice is really low and somber.   Yep.  

And so, you know, that it's that's not wasn't a disparaging comment necessarily, although I don't know that they had the energy to pay a lot of attention to detail here.   But it's very raw, I guess, is what I wanna say.   And,   this song,   man, it's just another one. It's just another song. So Walter Ruski pointed something out here and it which is I'm gonna that's that's the lyrics I'm gonna cover.  

[01:32:25] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:32:27] Unknown:

An airborne leaf that landed near has carried Dionysus here.   And it was he that pointed out that Dionysus was like the god of, like, partying in good times.   And what he was saying, I guess he was, you know, he's like a former addict,   apparently.   Oh, I didn't know. Okay. Yeah. And he was basically saying, like, that he related to this so much that it's like you're trying to stop.   You're trying to stop the madness, but there's always   an airborne leaf that just ends up just   you know, like like a rant like, some piece of entropy   just comes in and brings it all back.  



[01:33:05] Unknown:

Right.  

[01:33:12] Unknown:

You know, and that if it's that that's what the song   I don't know, man.   I don't know what the connection is to Bitcoin here other than just this whole album is just like a bunch of people that know it's over. And I said, you know, maybe it is just that sometimes you do sometimes there are some people   that should just sell   and get their shit together.  

[01:33:32] Unknown:

Yes. They should. It's for anyone, but not for everyone.  

[01:33:35] Unknown:

Keep maybe keep something that keep what you're capable of. Right? Know what's important.   You know, keep what's important, but know who's your friend.   But, like, maybe some people should be maybe there are people whose life is too fucked up for Bitcoin.  

[01:33:51] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:33:52] Unknown:

And, you know, like, the and maybe it's one of those analogies where it's like you have to take the oxygen first because you're just no good to anybody unless you make it.   Yep.   And,  

[01:34:04] Unknown:

Good insight.  

[01:34:05] Unknown:

You know, I it's, like, sort of my takeaway on on this whole thing. I I honestly don't have much more to say about this album.   Grind is tiny or   don't do anything much for me. Yeah. I mean,  

[01:34:19] Unknown:

I'm gonna check out some I'm on your I didn't I didn't listen to this one, because I felt like I knew it, but I am finding that there's a couple songs that I could go revisit. But,   I mean, if there's nothing   do you have anything else you wanna you wanna say about the album?   I  

[01:34:38] Unknown:

mean, dude, I feel like I've I feel like the hour and a half I've spent   talking about   it is is, like, more time in 02/2004   that I would wanna spend in a year. Yep.   Understood. And I watched the poetry thing yesterday.   That really took me back. That really took yeah. That took me back.  

[01:34:59] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm I'm sure that's   somewhat emotional still.  

[01:35:04] Unknown:

It was so strange. No. I mean, you know what like, just dude watching people walk through the mud.   Yeah. Like,   the whole thing was horrible.   Like, physically terrible,   emotionally terrible.   You know? Everybody was upset. Everybody you know? And it's just the way that ended was the way that that it ended was so bad. And   this I love but when I I I love these documentaries because   they cover   the news coverage of this thing was hilarious.   Mhmm. Because what people need to realize about how it really ended,   You know, it ended with this festival that was a disaster. It was a mud filled disaster.   And something like 10 or 15,000   people just abandoned their cars on the interstate   and walked five miles to the campsite, to the site where the show was.  

And in these documentaries and they show the footage of just the cars that are left on the islands of these of this of I ninety one.   You really see how   devoted the fans were to the end.  

[01:36:08] Unknown:

Yep.  

[01:36:09] Unknown:

You know? And I I know a guy who rented an RV   from New Jersey, drove up to Vermont,   and when they made the announcement, he drove home. And then when he went home, get on got on the Internet   and found out that everybody abandoned their cars, he drove right. He drove back and left his RV. He he left his rented RV   on the interstate.  

[01:36:30] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:36:31] Unknown:

You know, like like, you know, I hear stories like that.   You know, we we were in the 27 mile backup that took, you know, eighteen hours to get to get through.  

[01:36:43] Unknown:

Yeah. But we didn't we made it. I was at the Camden show, which was a lot of people skipped it because they were going to Coventry, and and the band was telling people not to go.  

[01:36:53] Unknown:

I was at the Camden shows. I remember it poured.   Right?   And my friend who I'm we I met   I we we, yeah. We flew to Boston, and I met up with my two friends, and we rented a car and   drove to   drove to Vermont.   But I think I was the only one who went to the Camden Show, the three of us.  

[01:37:14] Unknown:

Yeah. That was that was quite a haul you did. But do you remember that where they were like, there's mud and, like, don't go if you cannot go. Like,  

[01:37:22] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, they were right. Yeah. They were right to tell people that, but they were also delusional   that anyone would listen.   This was the last fish show.   I know. This was the most special thing that honestly had ever happened to most of us in our lives,   And it was ending. And it was ending badly. But, like, it was ending for good. And nobody was gonna allow themselves to miss it.  

[01:37:43] Unknown:

Well, the fans showed themselves to be anti fragile in that moment. And the band showed themselves to be anti fragile in 02/2009.