Back on the Chain

Share on social media:

Fundamentals
X: @Fundamentals21m
nostr: npub12eml5kmtrjmdt0h8shgg32gye5yqsf2jha6a70jrqt82q9d960sspky99g
READ THE BOOK: https://zeuspay.com/btc-for-institutions

Jason
nostr: npub19l2muzvelq07kfx8glfqmpf8jdcj2xp733rhjfc05t2g2mt9krjqrae40w
READ THE FCKING BOOK!!^^

Intro:  Turtle in the Clouds - Phish, 10/31/18  Las Vegas, NV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jNGnAcNj5I
Outro:  While My Guitar Gently Weeps - Phish, 10/31/94  Glen Falls, NY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3alrPKnKZ14

In this special Halloween episode (recorded Oct 31), we dive deep into why 10/31 is sacred to both Phish and Bitcoin culture—and how those worlds have overlapped in surprising ways. I share first‑person memories from the early Internet days on rec.music.phish, the electricity of Fall ’94, and waking up on 11/1/94 to discover Phish had played the Beatles’ White Album in full at Glens Falls. From there, we trace the evolution of the “musical costume” tradition—its peaks, lulls, and reinventions—through Quadrophenia, Remain in Light, Loaded (and my infamous Vegas misadventure), the long hiatus, Exile on Main St., the polarizing Wingsuit set, the triumphant Chilling, Thrilling Sounds of the Haunted House, the transcendent Ziggy Stardust, the masterminded Kasvot Växt troll, and the futuristic Sci‑Fi Soldier—with the samples, memes, and new staples each era left behind.

Along the way, we compare the cultural arcs of Phish Halloween and Bitcoin milestones (White Album vs. White Paper), unpack how online communities shape peak moments, and talk candidly about personal inflection points—how a first Phish trip flipped a switch in life and career, and how 2008’s market chaos felt from inside the machine. We close by wondering whether Halloween may be retired… or merely waiting for Phish to find Bitcoin before the next great costume emerges.

[00:00:00] Unknown:

One,  

[00:00:11] Unknown:

two,   I see a turtle in  

[00:01:40] Unknown:

And we are back   on   the   chain.   It took us a while. Which chain? Which chain are we on? I mean, what the fuck dude? Right? Are we on a chain split? When you dropped off, I had I have a bucket full of thoughts today. I just wanted to let you know that. Dude, yeah. I have a bucket full of thoughts as well.   Holding that bucket in my hand, man.   It's crazy shit going on   that I don't wanna get into.   Right? But we're doing this,   I'm gonna call this very special episode. What are we at? 23 right now?   Yeah. Episode 23,   Michael Jordan.  



[00:02:19] Unknown:

That's right.  

[00:02:22] Unknown:

The date is   October 31,   which,   you know,   is a very   special day   for Phish fans.  

[00:02:33] Unknown:

It   is. Is it not? Very special day.  

[00:02:37] Unknown:

And I think what we wanna do today   is   really,   this is like the one where we let Bitcoiners know   really about our culture.   And   Halloween   is a big big big part of fish culture and you know what?   Like, it's a big part of bitcoin culture but it's like,   you know, it's hard not to notice   the pleb sloppiness of it   as the years go by.   Yeah.   It's so strange. Like,   bitcoin has these things where they're just symbol you know, they're just symbolic.   Whereas, like,   Halloween for fish is far from symbolic.   It's experiential.   I've talked about   the first one, 10/3194.  

Wasn't there, but like,   you know,   I remember being on the internet for like the first time   that year.   And   do you by the way, do you know how or why I even   found what the Internet was?   I'm sure everybody has their story about this.   Yeah. I don't know. You've talked about IRC before, but I'll let you I'll let you explain. But how did I even like, how did I know to look for the Internet is a good question. Right? And the answer is,   so this may be a lesson for fish fans and bitcoiners, but there used to be a mailer   called the Donnie Achsweiss.  

It was a paper it was like a little paper fan   magazine that Fish used to put out every quarter.   And they had all it was so cool, dude. Like, it had like Mike's corner and Mike would write some nonsensical   poetry.   All the guys in the band would contribute to it. Yeah. You know, really cool fanzine.   And,   so like I was getting that was getting that for a few quarters.   And then at one point, I got one   and it said, hey,   top look up our set lists   on fish.net.   And I was like, what the fuck is that?   And, you know, I go into my   college's computer library,   and I, like,   type in fish.net. Nothing happens. But, like,   eventually,   I figure out in   college library that they have   this thing called internets   on computers.  

And eventually oh, no. So it did it wasn't phish.net. It basically said rec.music.phish.   And that was the Usenet  

[00:05:17] Unknown:

message board. I was gonna say, yeah. And,  

[00:05:20] Unknown:

yeah. So, like, eventually, I find my way, and I find wreck.music.fish   on Usenet.   And   it's like   I mean, you understand, dude. Like,   up in that point, you had, like, your maybe your four or five buddies who you smoked weed with. Mhmm. And   you spent every day with them smoking weed   Okay. And talking telling the same fucking stories, the same analysis   about fish.   Maybe you get a new tape, you know, or something like that. Right. Like, the way we got tapes   was, there was this place called Record Castle   on Cotman Avenue in Northeast Philly. Mhmm.   And they had basically   all kinds of bootlegs.  

And, so I used to get these Hendrix   shows.   So in, like, my tape call I didn't buy any I don't think I bought any fish tapes there. I was they didn't really do that.   But somebody Right. You know, somebody had tapes.   Somebody in the friend group had tapes and was able to get tapes.   And, you know, you're in your you're just in your car   with your same four friends   every fucking night   talking the same shit.   Right?  

[00:06:37] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:06:38] Unknown:

And then one day, the world opens up.   And it's like every it feels like it's, oh my god. Everyone in the world who likes fish is here and   talking about it.   And it was truly, truly incredible. Like, it was incredible experience. I mean, it delivered. Like, you talk about, like, discovering the Internet for a purpose, and it fucking delivered completely. You know? It was not lame at all. It was awesome.  

[00:07:04] Unknown:

And so And the fact that you say Cotton Ave, I mean, I remember that stretch of road that had, like, those little before there were mini malls, they had little strip stores, almost like Totally. Homes.   And   they were some I just remember going there with my my friend from the Northeast   who showed me that that part. We had our own equivalent stuff in South Jersey. We had a record shop like you described that sold   Grateful Dead tapes   and Hendrix tapes and maybe some Floyd.  

[00:07:32] Unknown:

There was a headshot probably next door.  

[00:07:35] Unknown:

Yeah. There were definitely deadheads, though, that ran the place,   mainly. I'm sure they just loved music, obviously, but it was a a cool time.  

[00:07:44] Unknown:

Super cool time. So all of a sudden, the world opens up.   And,   oh, by the way, you know, 1994   happens   to be,   you know, easily, almost undisputedly a top three year for Fish.   Yes. You know, in terms of number of shows, where they were quality you know, just the quality of where they were at the time in their catalog.   '94 is incredible. So there's so much energy   every basically, every day talking about last night's show. There's, like, a lot of energy.  

[00:08:14] Unknown:

Right. And it's all happening for the first time. It's so fucking cool. All happening for the first time is the key. You know what I mean? Like, anything could happen. So nobody knew Nobody knew what was gonna happen next, and they weren't really jamming like like we know it today.   They were just playing   they were still exploring,   like, you know, to in type one style, I would say. I don't know if you'd argue with me on this, but I would a little I definitely would in '94. Okay. Okay.  

[00:08:39] Unknown:

Do after we talked about it before with the bathtub gin, the '93.   The first type two. Yeah. Which I was wrong about that being the first type two because there was another type two jam in that show in the first set.   Like, this is like, August '93, really, I think they started   really exploring   beyond just the regular tension that, you know, Trey would basically do. And '94 just went on to a whole another level.   '94, in my opinion, was the peak of what we like to call machine gun, Trey. Mhmm. Yeah.   You know, Trey was a guitar god.  

[00:09:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Per digital per digital status. Yeah.  

[00:09:20] Unknown:

And, you know, he wasn't maybe the greatest listener.   9394   is, I think, when they really started with their listening exercises, and they would be practicing hours and hours a day doing their doing these listening exercises.   Mhmm. So for the fans out there and friends out there,   you know, this is like,   you know, fish once they mastered their catalog, they really wanted to hear each other. And   the exercise that I always read about was called the hey exercise   where, you know, it was like everyone just said, hey, in order, and they would just keep adding to what was being played. Everyone would just add something. Yep. And they'd go around almost like in a circle. And, again, this is what they do this for hours and practice listening to each other.   And as Trey became a better listener   this is all happening, by the way, as the venues were getting bigger and bigger.  

Mhmm. So, like, there's really something special about Trey just shredding the fuck out of songs in small theaters   without   really having to stretch his ears to listen to the rest of the band. Right? Good point. Yeah. Without the 10,000 without the 10,000 watt rig. Yeah. So, like, we're starting to get into bigger, you know, bigger arenas, and they're starting to they're starting to listen more. And as Trey became a better listener,   he became   a, like, a better soundscape   artist, but not as much of a shredder,   like, all the time. Mhmm. Correct. Right? You'd t you'd still see his moments.  

You go to '97, '98. He's still you know, you go to the Clifford Ball tapes from '96. I mean, you know, you still see these moments, but it's not like '94 where he would just   he would just be on a tear for, you know, the entire show. Right?   Yeah. Yeah. And and the ability to play certain songs like, poor heart and the speed and foam and the speed at which he was as playing them was just absurd.   Yeah. And so that was the peak. '94 was this peak. And here we are in the Internet all experiencing it for the first time talking about it,   and it's so much fucking fun. I couldn't wait every day to get to, like, my computer library   to just get on rec music fish and read about it. And you had,   Charlie Dirksen, if that name means anything to you. You had guys like who he did this thing called the mic files, and he just review mic songs. It was just like nobody was thinking about any any of this shit. You know? You just had people being really creative.  

So here we here we are. We get to   the this fall of ninety four tour is tremendous. And if you just go to October,   so you just go show after show after show, and everyone is just flipping the fuck out online.   Right? Everyone's so enthusiastic. No one's trying to be too cool for the room. Right? Everyone is just like, this is the best. This is the greatest, and it was.   And we get to,   October 31, and everybody   who is not at that show is posting online. It's like online reading, and everyone is the the FOMO is out of control.  

[00:12:21] Unknown:

And And what was the setup for that show?   The setup? Did the band did the band well, because the band hadn't done a musical costume yet. Right? That was the first one. Nobody knew what was gonna happen. But But how did how did they I mean, as somebody who is more of a late arriver   Yep. When I   became educated on fish, I knew of the fish bill, like, the classic Halloween fish bill.   So I'm I'm curious What was none of that? What was the setup   leading into that? Did they announce that they were going to do a musical costume, or was No. There's none of that. Nobody knew anything. So here's what so here's where I'm leading building  

[00:12:56] Unknown:

completely building up to. Right?   This is like a slow   foam building to a crescendo here.   But, like,   November 1   comes around.   Everyone   just, you know, immediately in the morning just comes, gets online. And   what I wanted what I want everyone here to know is, like, I   felt something   I I've talked about it before because I think you probably like, people somebody like you felt that at Big Cypress.   And that musically, that was, like, the just the peak. But, like, energy wise online,   from before to   after, this Halloween show, 10/3194   in Glen Falls, New York where they played the Beatles white album in the second set,   which, by the way, happens to have the greatest versions of Wama guitar gently weeps divided sky.  

We've told, you know, we told Grafton, like, dude, you gotta listen to those those versions, you know, and that you know? So, you know, so when you come in, we discover they play three sets, which   they never do unless it's New Year's Eve   or some other absurd   like Amy's Farm, something's really special. Festival. Right.   So we come in, we find out they did three sets, and the second set was the Beatles white album in its entirety.  

[00:14:18] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:14:18] Unknown:

I'm just everybody just was going fucking bananas.   It was just the most beautiful and, dude, the,   the the groveling for tapes  

[00:14:31] Unknown:

was I've never seen I've never seen anything like it. There were some Chris Rock and stuff going on, I'm sure, with New Jack City.  

[00:14:39] Unknown:

Like, we none of us got those tapes for a while. Like, that was Right. Really those were really tough tapes to get.  

[00:14:46] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:14:47] Unknown:

So, like It's interesting  

[00:14:48] Unknown:

because the Internet was so new then.   Like, you talk about an explosion online like that.   '94, like, the Internet was really young. Like, the fact that that was the environment that that exploded into had to be, like you said, it was like a tip like, not tipping point but like Dude, all we had were message boards by the way. There was no we didn't have, like, graphical  

[00:15:10] Unknown:

web yet.   I mean, it existed. Like, there was one computer in my computer lab that had a web browser called Mosaic, and it took forever to load a page, but everybody would gather around and watch it. It was   fucking incredible. But, like   so we were doing everything in text, straight text. It's kinda, you know,   command line.   You know, we were in IRC   and rec music fish and   just people were coming, and the thing was growing. And it would the energy was incredible.   So,   yeah. So there's no there's no fish bill. There's no   That can announcement. There's no nothing. There's literally just everyone being gobsmacked gobsmacked   in finding out what the fuck happened.  

Right. And you gotta understand, like, you   Bitcoin is not gonna care what I'm about to say, but, like,   I said the entire October 1 run was incredible. 10/29,   the show prior,   Spartanburg,   South Carolina.  

[00:16:09] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:16:10] Unknown:

Dude, like, that's a must it's a must have, must listen to show. It's one of the great all time shows.   I mean, this run, they're really, like, peaking   at this time. And then the show right after Halloween, I think, was, Syracuse   on, Onondaga Center, Syracuse, and there's another   absolute banger.   Yeah. And then they just kept   nailing this fault tour   leading up to   what was the fulfillment of their dream   on December 30 of that year, which was in MSG.   Right. All of a sudden, it all gets fulfilled, and they are just peeking right into it. Mhmm.   So   this 10/3194   white album show is so special.  

And for me, I'll never forget it. Like, it was the thing, like   how do I explain this sometimes? Okay. Let me I'll give you two ways to explain this.   Do you ever go to, like, do you ever go to, like, one of the Bitcoin conferences?  

[00:17:09] Unknown:

I've been to, I haven't been going to the the major one. I've been to, Bitlock Boom.  

[00:17:14] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, so there's something that happens in your brain   when   you're farting around with yourself and your friends. Once again, right, you're farting you know, you have, like, your little crew at your home, your local home.   Right. And you're farting around. And then one day, you re you you enter a space and realize there's, like, 20 fucking thousand people there that care about us.   Just like You know what I'm and that's Yeah. Sort of, like, what   that's really what happened here.  

[00:17:43] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:17:44] Unknown:

I I say this all the time about,   going to Mets games.   Shout out Paige.   Shout out   I forgot the episode we did about the Met game when I heard bathtub gin on the Oregon. Yeah. But, like bathtub gin episode. Yeah. You know, you you're watching baseball games here in Philadelphia. Nobody here gives a shit about the Mets. And then you, you know, you go to the stadium and there's 20,000 people that are going going crazy. And you're like, yeah, I forgot what a big deal this is to people.   Right. I had no idea for you just forgot.   That's true. So, like, the Internet in 1994   leading into this 10 thirty one show,   it's just like you realize what a big   you just realize what a big thing this is.  



[00:18:28] Unknown:

Yeah. And and what you're speaking to is, like, the camaraderie that is,   whenever you gather a a a large group of people, let's say more than 5,000 that all kind of are there for the same reasons,   something special. I mean, you could do that in Eagles game, like, any sporting event, college sports in particular, especially as students.   Mhmm.   But Phish takes that to another level. You mentioned I picked up that vibe in the Lake Satoshi episode, you know, that you did. It it was just really cool. Well, the reason why Phish so it but but it's different from, like, the Mets.  

[00:18:58] Unknown:

It's different from college sports because   It is. Nobody gives a fuck about fish in your life.   True.   Like like, it took you culture.   Yeah. That's right. And it's just and then that's where it's a kinda similar to Bitcoin. Right? You get into Bitcoin, you're just you're fucking alone, dude.   You got nobody,   and that's when you know? So then when you find a meetup, you're like, oh my god. Okay. It's not totally alone. You then get online. You meet make some friends, and, you know, you go to a conference. And, like, oh my god. You know? This is actually kind of a thing.  

[00:19:29] Unknown:

Yeah. It's kind of a thing. We're all we're all weirdos together kind of was always kind of my take for So when you're going.  

[00:19:37] Unknown:

Maybe we live in a time where the little niche things get big   because and that's maybe something that the Internet has enabled.   Because, like, the Grateful Dead, just everything goes back to the Grateful Dead, but everybody knew how big the Grateful Dead was before they attended their first show.  

[00:19:53] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:19:54] Unknown:

Right? I mean, I'm just telling you. I'm I'm telling people in the audience. No. That means If you didn't live in that time, everybody knew how big they were. You didn't have to go to a show and experience it to know   to know that it was a big deal.  

[00:20:09] Unknown:

Right.   And you're going to this was a big, like that was how do I put it?   Enjoyed by many people.  

[00:20:17] Unknown:

Like, you you weren't Also considered to be, like, the big coming of age experience.   Right. You know?   There was something really special about going to a dead show, and that's because you knew how big it was. You knew how big of a deal it was, and there were, like, just legends about   what it did for people.   Like, you know, there were myths and legends about what it meant to go to a dead show for an individual.   Yeah. It's true. It's true. You're right. So, like, again, it's like it's it's not the case with Phish or anything like that necessarily.   Although, you know, I was telling you before the show that I listened I relistened to the first episode.  

Right? Yes. Of this podcast. Yeah. I listened to the first episode of this podcast   today.   We made some startling discoveries.   Startling, startling discoveries.   One of which was I told I also told a story about how my first fish show really did change my life. It wasn't the show itself, but it was the whole weekend.  

[00:21:13] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:21:14] Unknown:

The whole weekend chain it absolutely was I went from being, like, a struggling loser to a winner.   And the thing that happened was that show and that trip that trip and that show. And that was just the thing that happened in between those two things happening.  

[00:21:29] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:21:32] Unknown:

It really did make that kind of a difference for me for whatever it's worth.  

[00:21:37] Unknown:

Yeah. And I remember I kinda I kinda shared my my intern,   first show experience down in Atlanta.   And it was,   yeah, my life was forever different from that point. And I don't   I didn't have that much of a,   like,   loser to winner type of dynamic,   But it was you know, you mentioned when you first heard Trey's guitar that it fit your it fit your ear. It fits your brain.  

[00:22:05] Unknown:

Absolutely.  

[00:22:06] Unknown:

And and I felt that way about about Mike and John as a as a rhythm unit.   And   and at that point, I was just casually a drummer. I wasn't I didn't have my own kit. I, you know, I was just kind of drawn to the drums.   And,   I had found I had found the music that I had been searching for that I didn't know   I was missing. You know what I mean? It's just one of those things. You didn't know what you didn't know, and then it was like a puzzle piece  

[00:22:33] Unknown:

that In case people are wondering what it looks like for me to be a loser,   so hard to imagine. But, it's more just being being being, like, really just struggling with being an underachiever and never really being able to break figure figure out how to break through and then it just did.  

[00:22:50] Unknown:

Right.  

[00:22:51] Unknown:

You know? That's and I don't have an explanation for why.   For what? I have some explanation.   I don't I didn't talk about it.   I think I said I would do it on another episode.   Maybe this is the one.   That's so I mean, well,   my first show was New Year's. So, you know, we're this is a this is a Halloween episode. I don't think we're gonna do a New Year's thing.  

[00:23:13] Unknown:

No. I don't think we will. Yeah. But,  

[00:23:16] Unknown:

you know,   at my at my first show,   I,   I ran into a couple of people from my childhood.   And,   like, I just saw how successful all these people were. Like, they were going to Harvard. This show was in Worcester. So, like,   you know, I saw these people I went to, like, elementary school with, and they were dipshits. And they're like, yeah. We go to Harvard and all that shit. And I just like it. And finally, like, just whatever it was that was inside of me that, like,   was allowing me to underachieve, I just had it.   You know? Mhmm. Just fucking had it, dude. And the dude, I was, like, rolling I was rolling, like, a fucking two foot joint as I was walking by their room and saw them. I was like, hey.  

This guy, Pafsky. I was like, Pafsky? You fucking are you fucking serious? He's like, yeah, dude. I haven't seen you in, like you know, I moved out of that town when I was in like, I didn't go to high school there. Right. So, like, I hadn't seen any of these people in, like, ten years, like, since, like, elementary school or, like, early middle school. And I'm coming in with, like, this giant like,   we got, like, this one of those, like,   easy wires that, like, has just on the roller.   You know, like, aluminum   foil. You know what I mean? Mhmm. Yeah. So I just I was just rolling it. Just an absolute giant one.  

And,   I saw these guys   and,   you know, and it's like, it it burned my ass at how   it just burned it fucking and it wasn't because of them. I've never been the kind of person that cared what other people do.   But, like, but it was it was no. But, like, for myself, like, I was like, you know, I'm done letting myself down. And for whatever reason, I had that moment where I just, like, fucking done with it. You know?   And that it's it's just that happened over that weekend.   Just had it. Just fucking had it.  

[00:25:11] Unknown:

Mhmm. And then I just started to rush it.   It's like that competitive it's that competitive. I because I'm with you. Like, I never really   got a got wrapped up into what other people thought of me. I kinda held that as, like, a a a badge of honor my whole life.   But there is a point where if you feel yourself underachieving   and I went through this in, like, '20,   I don't know, 2010, 2011   personally,   where, like, somebody just said something, like, in passing, like, what do you mean? Like, how how are you not a VP by now? And then I was, like, okay. And then I like, two years later, I was a VP. You know what I mean? Like, and I just kind of made it happen.  

[00:25:45] Unknown:

But it was, like, like Yeah. I would go through that several times. I would I had several more of those experiences   in my life, but that was the first   the one that really was, like   everybody has this moment where they're they go,   you know, from with their kid,   and they're struggling to make it. And then, you know, you you break through and all of a sudden, like,   you've you've made it for what you're   what you're trying to do at the time. Yeah. Whatever your craft is. Yeah. Whatever that is.  

[00:26:12] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:26:14] Unknown:

You know, it's not that I didn't care what people thought of me. I just I didn't I never cared about like, I never got upset about other people doing well or anything like that. And I never I see what you're saying. Yeah. I've never been the kind of guy that compares myself to people either.   It's just that   I knew how I was failing.  

[00:26:31] Unknown:

Yeah. You knew you knew in your own with your own conscience that, like, you could you could be achieving more. Yeah. I I I can't completely. And it just it just flipped a switch inside of me.  

[00:26:42] Unknown:

Right. And so I get you know,   people should know, like, these shows, yeah, they're they can be very special.   So, again, that that began that that was '93, so I hadn't gotten on the Internet yet.   And,   so I started kicking ass   in school,   kicking fucking ass in college. I mean, literally, like, you know,   just   never really didn't get an a after   after that point of time. Yeah. And I had, like, a 2.6 GPA going into it.   Got it. It just it just flipped. But so here I am just crushing,   and I'm in the library all the time, 94, and I'm now, like, on the I'm fucking probably spent three, four hours a day online.   You know? Mhmm.  

Reading fish reading rec music fish and then eventually discovering IRC.   And,   it is just all coming together. Everything was coming together in my life so fucking beautifully all of a sudden, and we just and it reaches this crescendo on 10/31 of that year.   And,   you know, that show validated Phish and   for everybody,   and   it just launched everything to a new level. I'm so glad that happened, like, before Jerry died. Like, that got to happen strictly inside of the fish ecosystem. That's a really good point. That's a really fucking good point that they prove basically.  

[00:28:03] Unknown:

And for the Bitcoiners out there, this is the equivalent of, like, BlackRock of, like,   BlackRock saying, you know, getting behind and and and submitting an application to the SEC for a Bitcoin ETF. Like, that moment   was a legitimacy   to for me, anyway, Bitcoin wasn't going to zero after that.  

[00:28:22] Unknown:

But but before that Yeah. I see that. I look at that as the Jerry dying moment where where we got all these people that we didn't want all of a sudden. Mind you, they're only 64.  

[00:28:30] Unknown:

Right? They're only they're they're  

[00:28:32] Unknown:

they're You know what I mean? But I think you're right. It's you're right. I mean, there's Yeah. It's just, you know, there was just something so special there, and then   that was the first Halloween, 10/3194,   the white album. And   I like to compare I like to contrast that with the white paper,   which was released on 10/31/2008,   twenty four years later.   Right. There's no magic to the number '24 here. It's just, you know,   it's just that,   I think it's serendipitous.   I don't know if it's that meaningful, but it's pretty damn serendipitous   that 10/31   was the day. I mean,   like, I could take you back to 10/31/2008   because,   you know, this was post Lehman, post AIG, not far off. Mhmm. Right? Lehman AIG, all that that'll happened at the September.  

So, like, I have these visions. I might imagine   whoever the fuck Satoshi was. Right?   Was just like, fuck, dude.   I gotta get this thing out now. Fuck. I can't wait. I can't I can't keep tinkering with that. I I it's my belief that, you know,   it would have gone he would have developed it longer.   He He would have got made it better.   But, like, once Lehman AIG happened, he had to put the white paper out, and then he had to launch it. That's interesting.  

[00:29:58] Unknown:

Because you're one of the few Bitcoiners that was, like would you say you were   that moment, 2008,   just because of your profession, you were in the thick of it. Like, you knew what was going on.  

[00:30:09] Unknown:

Absolutely. Not thick of it. I mean, I was living and dying by markets at that time,   and,   I was working   probably,   like, eighty hour weeks.   Wow.  

[00:30:22] Unknown:

So it was it was a high pressure, high stress   time for you.  

[00:30:26] Unknown:

Well, yeah. Well, so here's the thing. Right? When markets are moving a lot, what's what you know, when your job is to explain results.  

[00:30:34] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:30:35] Unknown:

If you're if you are   if you're running a risk system   that has a PNL   that's driven by markets   and markets move one or 2% all the time,   then you only see a few things that ever come up that are, like,   determinants of per of that performance.   Yeah. And what happens when markets start moving, you know, 10 x that every day,   you realize there's all these other things that you just never saw before because the Yeah. The returns were too small to expose them. And so it's just like   all the work wasn't explaining, oh my god. That's that matters?   This matters? That matters? It's like, well, they do now. Yeah, dude.  

Nobody knew.   And my field at the time was very new.   My field was   really invented in 2003   and didn't get a lot of AUM up until, like, 05/00/2006.   It just ran out of, like very new. Derivatives.   It was new. There were no books on how to do it. And so everyone who was doing this job   was learning on the job doing for the first time. There was no, you know, there was no podcasts,   no real Internet to   bounce off. There weren't many people doing it. So, like,   it ended up just being a lot of work and a lot of time having to explain to executives what the fuck was going on. What was going on? Yeah.   Yeah.  



[00:32:03] Unknown:

So And these are large these are large,   pools of pools of capital. Correct? That that you were dealing with.  

[00:32:10] Unknown:

Massive.   Hundreds of billions of dollars. And this was all happening while Fish was on permanent hiatus. So, like, this is, like, when I made my I made my move.   I made my biggest move professionally   when Fish was gone.   Mhmm. And I wasn't, like, yeah, I wasn't, like,   encumbered   by having to explain why I can't be at the biggest meeting of the year.   And, like, being like, oh, I'm sure they'll understand. It's so sure it's you know?  

[00:32:42] Unknown:

I do  

[00:32:44] Unknown:

know. Yeah. So, like, I really made a move. Like, all of a sudden, these couple of years, made a big fucking move where I'm actually there all the time and not you know what I mean?  

[00:32:53] Unknown:

Yeah. Not having to just Well, thank god well, thank god for that. Well, it's funny because I I made my career shift during during the breakup was which I was in a, you know, it was a decent engineering job, but it was   had a pretty low ceiling.   So when I went in med device, which was o seven,   which is also October,   the year before,   and,   had FISH been around, it was just I wouldn't have had that clarity. You know what I mean? That clarity of vision, I think, because it's it's I don't wanna say totally distracting,   but it kind of is.  



[00:33:24] Unknown:

No. It is. So, you know, you just made me remember.   So I changed jobs too. Like, I was a pension guy. If you I'm sure everyone in the audience has read my book, Bitcoin for Institutions.   But,   we were   we were pioneering liability driven investments, the very thing that crushed the British pension system in 2022.   But we were pioneering that, and then I just hit a wall where, like, I was bored. Like, nobody wanted to do it. Nobody wanted to do the right things on pensions, and I'm like, this thing's gonna just get this thing is totally fucked. So I quit,   and I started in this new industry that was just being created.  

And my first day was October 31.   So isn't that kind of special? 10/31/2005   was my first day   in a new career.   And,   there was no fish Halloween I had to worry about. You know?   None. Yeah.  

[00:34:19] Unknown:

And mine was ten one for what it's worth. There's no three there, but it's it's I don't know. The numerology works out for in my brain. Ten one.  

[00:34:28] Unknown:

Well, there you go.   So, you know, ten thirty one is a special day. We started this fish tradition in 1994 with the white album. We had Satoshi releases the white paper under probably under great duress on 10/31/2008.   I think it's cool and serendipitous   that   we have this naming   similarity, white album, white paper.   Yeah. Fish did have their white tape.   Yes. Let's just talk a little bit. I I think we I wanna, like   that's I don't think Bitcoiners   listening to this really get the significance of Halloween just from this one thing.   So what happened was this began a giant   massive Yeah. Tradition   of doing a costume album. Right?  



[00:35:12] Unknown:

Yep. The costume set. Yeah. And this  

[00:35:15] Unknown:

included in this tradition   were one,   some incredible   sets of music. Yes. Okay. Amazing. Two, an annual tradition of troll of fish trolling the fans   Yeah. About fake signaling of who they're gonna cover.  

[00:35:32] Unknown:

Yes.  

[00:35:33] Unknown:

So I'm gonna go right to 10/2195.   So the next year, 10/21   Lincoln, Nebraska,   they basically teased beat it in, like,   every song.   And they did it early enough that the tapes would get out at least, like, a couple of days before the show. Like, they knew exactly what they were doing.  

[00:35:54] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:35:55] Unknown:

And,   they did a year they had a year where they just they had a vote, but they didn't honor the vote.  

[00:36:01] Unknown:

They just did it to Oh, that is so far. I didn't know that. And by the way, do you think Phish invent invented invented trolling?   Because I mean  

[00:36:10] Unknown:

No. They were the they were the best.   Vish is by far   they're just the best at doing it.   You know, have we talked about secret language  

[00:36:21] Unknown:

on the show? Mentioned it in one in one of the first three episodes. We mentioned it. Yeah. I mean, secret language,  

[00:36:27] Unknown:

the   the   you know who oh, so you know who else I mentioned in that first episode? Michael Palmisano.   Yes. Who is the sort of, you know, Guitar Gate. He's Guitar Gate. Right?   He, he said something about Fish that I'll never forget.   He he was and he got this just from watching this one video. Because, dude, there's never been a band who just loves and is so good at trolling their own fans. Like, this band lives and exists to troll their own fans.   This is like an outsider   observing.  

[00:36:58] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:37:00] Unknown:

And it's like, yeah.   That's exactly what they do.   They love it. They love to do that. I mean, it's part of, like, the jamming. It's part of why   Trey is, like, the most I think the most creative,   like, rock musician   maybe we've ever seen.   And I think guitar players would validate that. I don't know. You know, I think I don't know if that would be a mainstream view. But, you know, of all the things that Trey's considered to be, right,   creative is the one. Like, he probably is the most creative and inventive.  

[00:37:31] Unknown:

Yeah. Inventive is a is a is a good word.  

[00:37:34] Unknown:

And,   that's so did they invent trolling? No. But they really mastered it and they there was a time in, like, early nineties where they started in with the secret language where Yes.   You   know, based on a certain   riff that Trey would play, everybody would either fucking   fall down on the floor.   And, you know, there's one tape, campus club three thirteen ninety two. When he tells the story and explains it, he tells the fans   that what he wants is for the next time they come back to the campus club   is for, like, half the room to fall down and the other half to be like, what the fuck is going on here? All just happened. Yeah.   And, like, they really got off on shit like that.  

I think that's the kind of thing that really that drove the connection. But Halloween   oh, so the other thing we got for Halloween, and we haven't gotten into what these show some of these sets were. So in '95, we got the Who's, Quadrophenia.   Let's just go through it. '96, I'm gonna go off top of my head. 96, I'm pretty sure we got, remain in light from talking heads. Yeah. I have it in front of me. Remain in light. Yes.   So don't have it in front of you. Fuck that shit. Why not?   Get it. Get it. Come on. Let's go off memory.   Alright. Off memory. So okay. Well, so real quick, I just wanted to so,   many of these many of these sets   gave   us, songs that stayed in the rotation also. So, like, in Quadrophenia,   we got,   Ground.  

Mhmm. We got the real gin. We covered that. Remember the real gin?   Yep. 10/20   12/2995.   One of my great moments ever in fish show.   Remain in light, we got cross eyed and painless, which is an absolute staple.  

[00:39:14] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:39:14] Unknown:

So talking heads big.   Next year, I was there,   '98.   I guess, did they not do   did we not do '97?   '98 was Lou Reed. Oh, sorry. Velvet Underground.   Yeah. So ninety eight was funny   because,   so I was there in Vegas.   So we got to ninety seven, though. Did they they didn't do Halloween actually. Seven did not have a Halloween. Yeah. It's interesting. The greatest fault horror ever. It was. And they didn't do Halloween. Well, they were in Europe, I think. A lot of that year. Nope. Nope. Not not in the fall.  

[00:39:48] Unknown:

No. Not in the fall, but they had just gotten done Yeah. A pretty a pretty rip in summer. But the fall tour was I mean, it's considered the greatest fish tour of all time.   Yes. But it started it started after Halloween. Correct?   Did they just skip it? I forget why.  

[00:40:02] Unknown:

Or I don't I I don't have that in front of me. The most notable show of the tour,   what, prior to the new prior to New Year's run was McNichols Arena in Denver. Yes. Eleventh.   November, what, seventeenth. Yeah. Seventeenth. Anyhoo. So okay. So they skipped '97. '98, we are '98. I'm a tell a personal story because I was I went to Vegas.   Mhmm. So excited to finally go to my first Halloween show.   And it was Velvet Underground   and,   Loaded. Loaded is the name of the album. A lot of songs   got kept off of that. Sweet Chain, Rock and Roll.  

[00:40:36] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:40:37] Unknown:

Cool It Down. I mean, there were, like, some   a lot of ones from there. But guess what? You know how much of that you know how much of, the Velvet Underground set I saw?  

[00:40:46] Unknown:

None.  

[00:40:47] Unknown:

Like, I don't remember any of it because,   my buddies   pay attention here.   His ex his now his now ex wife   I don't even know if I need to continue the story, but his now ex wife   basically, like, made us all leave   and, like, take her to the airport and,   like, I don't know, some weird something really strange. I barely even remember it. I was not on drugs at all or anything like that. I just don't I was so angry   that fucking I'm so angry. I I don't remember it.  

[00:41:20] Unknown:

So Karen so Karen asked you all to leave the show to take her to the She've had a shit fit.  

[00:41:26] Unknown:

Right?   This is my friend's wife. You know? It's like   thinking like shit, dude. This could be a problem for many years to come if this is you know, we handle this wrong. We don't know how to we're all, like, autistic guys. We don't know what the fuck we're doing.   Yeah. They're they're still married at this point. So They are still married at this point. This was the moment, though, where we're like, dude,   this is a fucking problem.   This could never happen again. Like, this was like a major violation. You know? They got divorced the next day. Spoiler alert. They did get divorced very pretty soon after this.   But,   spoiler alert.  

Oh, you know, I don't to my knowledge, he's never he hasn't listened to one episode of this podcast yet, by the way. Yeah. So I feel pretty pretty free taking liberties.   Anyway,   but that so the other interest so the other interesting thing about '98   was that,   and I think we talked about this once, but, like, the first show   after Vegas   was   Salt Lake City. Mhmm. And a lot of people skipped it.   I can't remember the   Yeah. We can't think of where   It was a logistics thing. People skipped it. Logistics. I don't know where they went next, but, like, they skipped it. And they so they go they show up at the e center in Salt Lake City, and they see it, like, literally, like, a third full.   Yeah. And you know what they they fucking did? They played Dark Side of the Moon from start to finish.  

Just a fucking  

[00:42:52] Unknown:

destroyed Which was a running which was a running exciting rumor that the fans held probably since the white album that they would play Darkseid. And they've so the fans have been holding on to this for quite a while. Yeah. So that was one of those big, big, great trolls they used to do every year. They used to troll us with Darkseid.  

[00:43:09] Unknown:

And,   yeah. So then they'll do you know what?   See, Fishman, they really know how to just   twist the knife when they want to, and we've covered this. But when they really want when they think you're taking them for granted, dude, they fucking know how to make that statement.  

[00:43:25] Unknown:

Well, we've talked about in Bitcoin complacency   recently.   Within the last year, I know, you know, hat tip to to Rod and Rod and Dick   Always.   About about resting on our laurels   as a community. And, you know, if the if Phish, the band feels like the fans are getting complacent,   you know, they'll pull out a dark side out of the blue   when, they don't see a sellout.  

[00:43:50] Unknown:

Unbelievable. It happens. Yep. It definitely happens. Or they'll,   when   somehow they feel that we just decided not to go to Philly,   they'll do a forty minute sand   in a Wilson sandwich.  

[00:44:03] Unknown:

It still stings.  

[00:44:05] Unknown:

It does.   Okay. So after o eight, I wanna say not o eight. After ninety eight.   I wanna say there really there were no other, Halloweens for a while.   I think I'm gonna I'm just gonna go ahead and guess   that Halloween started getting   fucking out of control.   Okay. Right? Halloweens and fish shows, like, they couldn't I'm just gonna go out in alignment and say they they just couldn't they didn't like the they didn't like dealing with it anymore.   Right? And this is, like, I think, like, really part of what the drug era did to them. They lost their sense of humor. Right?   They lost they stopped having fun. They'll tell they they're the first to tell you. Like, their music got better for a while. Right?  

You go '97, '98, '99 right into big Cypress. The music was getting great,   but they were not having fun the way they used to.   It was a chore.   Mhmm. And,   then, you know, no more Halloweens for a while. Right? So there was no Halloween in '99,   certainly. And Nope. And then Maybe that was just because they everything went into Big Cypress  

[00:45:12] Unknown:

for New Year's. Yeah. And I didn't I didn't realize that Oysterhead did a did a a Halloween show, although it wasn't special. They didn't do anything costume related or anything like that. And so nothing they didn't do Halloween in o three when they came back.  

[00:45:25] Unknown:

Right?   Nope. And certainly and then then you had hiatus. So boom. Two point o got no Halloweens.   No Halloweens. So, basically, you went 98   to,   so after '98,   there was nothing until, the white paper came out. The white paper came out before a fish Halloween happened   after 1998.   Mhmm.   Okay. That's wild.  

[00:45:51] Unknown:

Okay. Now they come back in o nine, and they do what And I forgot about this. I forgot that they did a festival hell over Halloween.  

[00:45:59] Unknown:

Yeah. In, Southern California. Right? And they do Exile and Main Street.  

[00:46:04] Unknown:

Oh, Festival eight. So it's interesting. They did   the white album,   and then they did   arguably the sister the sister band to the Beatles, the Rolling Stones   after the white paper. Unfortunately,  

[00:46:17] Unknown:

the those songs   those songs, nobody liked those Rolling Stones songs in the rotation.  

[00:46:23] Unknown:

No.   Nobody likes the Stones. I never understood why the Stones are so popular, but whatever. They are.  

[00:46:29] Unknown:

Am I right that, like, those are the some of the most hated fish songs   that came like, were from the ex from from exile and mainstream. Like, nobody liked them.  

[00:46:38] Unknown:

Well, I mean, except for Loving Cup. I mean  

[00:46:41] Unknown:

was that yeah. But that was that was That was kind of a Dylan.   No. The Loving Cup they put the Loving Cup was in their rotation   since, you know   that's right. The late eighties or the mid early nineties. Okay. Thank you for correcting me. You know, and I wanna say really,   I wanna say the year '92 is the first year Paige started bringing,   like, a even a regular piano on stage,   And that's really when Loving Cup got in the rotation.   And then when he got when he started bringing his grand piano on is when he they started playing it a lot.  

[00:47:15] Unknown:

Yep.  

[00:47:16] Unknown:

So it doesn't really count.  

[00:47:19] Unknown:

It doesn't. I'm trying to think what playing it before they were playing it before. They the Yeah. The costume set didn't didn't introduce that song into the rotation. The song was already there. That's right. That's right. And, you know, it's kind of unprecedented. Right? There's there's really not there's no other precedent where they decided to do a cover  

[00:47:35] Unknown:

album of and then there's a song that that was already   like, Will and the rotation. We didn't really talk about the white album, but in the white album, you had wild my guitar gently leaps. You had,   it's like, what else stayed in the rotation from the wide album?   Let's see.   Like, day in the life was on sergeant Pepper. That was that was big. Day in the life was a big one, but that was not from the wide album.   So I think that was,   might might have been the only wrong one.  

[00:48:06] Unknown:

Yeah. I don't see anything. You know, crybaby cry, they would play. Yeah. You saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Here and there.  

[00:48:13] Unknown:

Here and there. Yes.   Oh, didn't you remember when I mentioned the doodle life   and the concert they played at the Wetlands with the doodle life? And this is before the white album. So here we go. It's like their loving comfort. They play cry, baby, cry before they did the white album set. So maybe they figured out, we know a couple of these songs already. Let's just do that one.   Interesting.   Yeah.   Okay. So o nine, Xylem Main Street, but everyone's just so happy Fish is back. Nobody cared about this Halloween show at all.  

[00:48:42] Unknown:

So true.  

[00:48:44] Unknown:

2010, I wanna say was,   Waiting for Columbus, the little feet. Yeah. So that was test me. Right?  

[00:48:51] Unknown:

Yeah. So I was at that show, and   I wanna say  

[00:48:57] Unknown:

Probably the least liked I don't know. That's the least liked Halloween. So   in general It's no. Just because nobody knew the songs. Nobody you know, it's just nobody knew the songs. It was a cool it was a cool ass album. It was when they did fucking Fuego or whatever the fuck Okay. So hold on. No. Hold on. Hold on. We'll get to there. That was fucking terrible.   Stop it. So Stop it. I'm on the other side of this. So that was so hold on. So we're doing this with chronology. Right? Twenty ten twenty ten is bowling sorry. Waiting for Columbus. I call it bowling for Columbine.   But  

[00:49:25] Unknown:

Jesus  

[00:49:29] Unknown:

Christmas. Oh my god. Waiting for Columbus, Little Feed, that that that fans didn't know what to do with it because they were so unfamiliar with that album. That they finally did us, like, the like, one of the I don't know. They were they were searching for some mojo, I think, when they just got back.  

[00:49:45] Unknown:

Yeah. When I I wanna say I had a personal I have a little story around waiting for Columbus, and that's because   where I worked, we had a machine shop, which was a full fledged   prototype   level machine shop for what we what we did as a business. And there was,   I don't know, forty forty first and second shift employees back there. But, anyway, I became really good friends with the foreman. So blue collar guy, you know, but very skilled. Highly, highly technical. Very like, incredibly skilled on how to make things.   And he was a big Little Feed fan. He was he's probably   seven, eight years older than you   and now retired.  

And,   I mean Bubba knows all I bet your Bubba knows all the songs on I I I bet you're right. I've been, you know, Bubba Bubba and him would probably be very good friends. This guy likes to fish. He's, like, just kind of salt of the earth kinda guy. Yeah. And when I brought him I brought him a CD after the show. I mentioned it was little feet, and he's like, oh, I need to check it out. Like, because he knew I was into fish and kinda made fun of me, but was you know, he's a music guy, so he respected it, but made fun at the same time.   Naturally. And then I gave him that  

[00:50:51] Unknown:

CD. I'm sorry? That's what people do.  

[00:50:53] Unknown:

Yeah. So I gave him that CD, and, like, he listened to it, and he's like, I have a 100% respect for that band now. Like, that band's no joke.   So it was just one of the that.  

[00:51:03] Unknown:

It's like, who does that? Right? Right.  

[00:51:05] Unknown:

He's like, that was amazing.  

[00:51:07] Unknown:

And, that was bait so,   was that in, Baderfield,   Or was that a Boardwalk call? It was a Boardwalk call. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. So 2011,   nothing.   2012 Nothing. Nothing. And then 2013,   we have what we call the wingsuit set.   Oh, god. You can hate on it all you want.   So let me just explain the fan to people here.   It was   now you gotta remember. Here we are. Every Halloween   that they announce they're doing a show,   it's the hype is out of control. The speculation's out of control.   The,   false flags of fish are out of control.  

[00:51:50] Unknown:

I was so mad.  

[00:51:53] Unknown:

I well, hold on. So, like, it's all out of control. Right? It's like, you know, fish's head fakes. They're they're all everything is out of control. And, oh, some a lot of the time, it just ends up being, like, the worst kept secret on Earth, and it's every you know, and everybody actually knows what what it was.   But,   we get to 2013,   and I wanna tell you right now that fall tour   was, like,   a massive   that was, like, their arrival   on three point o. Like, when they came back o 09:10,   eleven, it was like okay. Like, right, we you started to get that feeling pretty quickly where, like, I don't have to go to every show anymore. Yeah. And 2013   really obliterated that because that was an incredible fall tour, like, incredible fall tour.  

Leading in lead leading up to it, twenty ninth was,  

[00:52:44] Unknown:

at Redding, Santander Arena, and I was at that show. Correct. That's when they tried to do all the non Live Nation venues. Right?  

[00:52:52] Unknown:

They they were trying. Yeah. They they were trying. But the Yeah. The weird thing about that show in Redding was   I saw fucking, like, loads of Amish   at a Phish show, and it it was, like, tripped me up.   Couldn't believe it. I was like, wow, dude. Fish is for you locals. I didn't catch any of that. Beer, man. No shit. That's amazing. I mean, I didn't catch any of that. Dude, if you walk through the halls like, I got there really early.   Dude, I remember getting chewed out by my boss on my way to that fish show and, like, not giving a fuck at all.   I was, like, driving on a Pennsylvania turnpike, and he was just, like, flipping the fuck out.  

And,   I just didn't care. I just remember not fucking caring whatsoever.   That's great.   And then I got there early, and it's just like it's like Lancaster almost. It's like totally fucked, dude. It's like they are here. There's only, like, 6,000 people fit in that arena. It was so that was it was a really incredibly hard ticket, and it was exciting to see Fish in such a small room. It was an incredible show. Usually, those shows disappoint.   Like, those shows get overhyped, and   they're not they end up not being that good. But this tour just banged.   Mhmm. And it culminated   in   a Halloween show where they basically,   covered themselves.  

They   and they unleashed a new album.   And it was very polarizing,   and it's very polarizing on this podcast because I'm in here to tell you, I was a huge fan of it.   Huge fan. And were you at the show?  

[00:54:25] Unknown:

I was at the show.  

[00:54:26] Unknown:

You were after. So look, so you I'll give you preference because, you know, that's like the experience is like, oh, really? I I guess I could see you feeling good. If I wasn't if I wasn't there, I wouldn't comment like I am. I mean Probably. But for me, I I I   I surmised for myself   that the quality of that tour and the breakthrough quality of that tour   was from the rush of what they were about to do. And I think they were scared to do it.   They knew it was gonna polarize fans.   I think they were worried   about how polarizing it was gonna be,   and I think that adrenaline   drove that tour.  



[00:55:04] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. And I just wanna be really clear to the audience that,   I was very   displeased,   but it affected me not one iota as to, like, my degree of how much I like the band.   You know what I mean? Okay. Let me be fair. For me. I was just it was just the worst show I've ever been to.  

[00:55:26] Unknown:

Well, okay. Let me be fair. There are two songs that are clearly, like, considered the worst songs you can ever hear at a fish show.   Right?   One is the line, and I like the line. It's about basketball. I fucking like it. I'll take it. But winter cream, I feel fucked when I hear Winter Queen.   I feel absolutely fucked.  

[00:55:46] Unknown:

Yeah.   Oh my god.  

[00:55:48] Unknown:

So I will say, like, that that that album had a couple of stinkers,   But it had a couple bangers too, dude. Wingsuit was great. Fucking Fuego is great. Wait. The highlight was they had fucking Abe Vigoda on the fucking stage. So this was the real And Wombat yeah. Abe Vigoda Wombat is great.   It's   unbelievable, dude. That's a great moment.   It is.   Okay. So   okay. So $20.13.  

[00:56:14] Unknown:

Prize for me.  

[00:56:15] Unknown:

Either way, dude, fish starts ascending again. Okay? They start ascending.   They put their wingsuit on and they jump. They did. They put And   okay. And then so 2014   comes around and they schedule another Halloween show. And okay. Everyone's like, oh, well, they're not gonna do they're not gonna fucking do that again.   Right? Like, well, so what are they gonna do? And, you know, all the rumors started again. All the fucking rumors and all the fucking   all the fake signaling, and it all just, you know, can't happen again. And what did they play? Like, how do you even describe how the fuck do you even describe   what happened in twenty in 2014? You can't. You can't. All you have to do You wanna give it a shot? You wanna give it a crack? I mean, you know, so it was called basically the haunted house. It was like this haunted house,  

[00:56:59] Unknown:

it's harem scarum Disney It was an album. It was it was a it was a recording from 1964.  

[00:57:05] Unknown:

K. Yeah. So from this 1964   set the stage. It was an album   created for, like, Disney some Disney haunted house shit.  

[00:57:15] Unknown:

Yeah. It was for Disneyland.  

[00:57:16] Unknown:

Correct. For Disneyland.  

[00:57:18] Unknown:

Mhmm. And  

[00:57:20] Unknown:

it fucking slapped,   dude. It did it not? It was awesome. Fans liked it. Fans were psyched again. They were like, oh, Star Wars makes good movies again. Oh, Fish does Halloween again. Oh, okay. We're back.   That was the first year at the MGM Grand. It was. Right? First first four night run   for Halloween.   So Fish is, like, really now committing to Halloween. They got a four night run at the MGM Grand, and this would continue. This trend would continue. And it I mean, it became it's sort of like obvious. And I guess they're like, I guess we can handle it. They you know? Dude, the MGM Grand is a shitty arena.   A shit ass arena. Tiny.  

Very uncomfortable. Very hot.   Like, there's nowhere in that arena where you actually feel like you're well. Yeah.   You know?   It takes forever to navigate that fucking   casino, but Yep. They really like, every you know, those Halloweens were fucking awesome. And it started in 2014 with that. What so what was the official haunt the haunted house? What's the official name of it? So it's called chilling thrilling Chilling thrilling. Of the haunted house.   Yeah. So we just refer to it as chilling chilling, and that that every   song off that album, I believe, is in rotation in some way. Yes. At some point or another. And we have the introduction   of,   like, sound effects and samples. Yes. Like, this is like Like, mini Paige got really into sampling.  

Yeah. Right? And so you have these things like, your spaceship is about to blast off. Yeah. Right? Due to the incredible speed of your rocket. Yeah. Your trip is short. And so you have all these samples now that became   into our vernacular.   And it was it's it's all represented   a new age of Yeah. Like, what fish does.   Yep. And Halloween, a lot of times, has introduced   these things.   Right?   So very we're all psyched again. In 2014, we had,   we had Magna well, we had Super Bowl. No. We had Magna Ball.   Magna Ball. 2014, we started really getting some good shows Yes. And some festivals. And then we had the chill and thrilling,   and,   all was good. And then 2015 comes around, nothing nothing on the calendar. Right?  



[00:59:29] Unknown:

Nothing on the calendar.  

[00:59:31] Unknown:

Correct. Correct. K. By the way, I'm doing this all from memory for the record. You're doing a great job. Fans of note. Okay.   This is how special Halloween is. It's all in my goddamn head.   We'll see how well I continue to do. Let's go to 2016 because I was there. So 2016   was redemption time. My friend   who, you know, who shit ass ex wife dragged us out of the fucking Velvet Underground   show in 1998.   Well, he and I Full circle. He and I went full circle.   And we, we went to,   you know,   we we went in 2016, and we were like, we're gonna fucking stay.   Redeemed ourselves.  

This was the weirdest. The 2016 was the weirdest, like,   time in history. You know, we talked about how fish shows are so resilient to, like, what's going on in the world.   Right. Halloween twenty sixteen was, like, literally when, like, James Comey dropped the fucking,   you know Oh, the Russia guy. Trump thing. And it was, like, the middle of like, this is, like, right before the Trump Hillary election. And, dude, things were really getting fucked. It was, like, days before. Wow. Yeah. It was, like, so fucking weird, dude. It was   just really, really strange, and, really, the membrane was tested.  

It was you know, they were got it's like,   I don't know how else how else to describe it. But Mhmm. Musically,   they went back to a traditional album.  

[01:00:55] Unknown:

Did, David Bowie, Ziggy Stardom? Was probably the most predictable of all the costume sets they had done because Bowie because David had died that year.  

[01:01:03] Unknown:

Died that year, and   everybody in Vegas knew. Every even cab drivers knew. Yeah. So you want to go see fish? Dude, David Bowie.   Everybody knew. It was, like, so no it was one of those things that it was no secret and no one cared. And it was incredible. I think musically, one of the best things I've ever seen them do.  

[01:01:24] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:01:25] Unknown:

And but yet, like, everyone still had that feeling of, like, I think the Halloween tradition was a little bit stale by that   point. This is why I saw   this is what I wrote about in that one blog   post called Say It to Me Satoshi. I was talking really about the Halloween. How Halloween then got stale   right in 2016.   The David Bowie, even though it was so good musically.  

[01:01:48] Unknown:

Right? Sort of like the big Cypress of Halloween. I was just gonna say I was gonna say it was it was the big Cypress of Halloween.  

[01:01:55] Unknown:

So, you know, 2017,   we get nothing again. Now oh, so it's well, we were supposed to get curveball, right, in 2017?   Yeah. We're supposed to get curveball. We told that story.   Curveball was a curveball, and we didn't do it was terrible.  

[01:02:10] Unknown:

Didn't happen. It was recursive.  

[01:02:12] Unknown:

And Fish was so upset.   See,   I okay.   Somebody in the band will have to validate this, but I got theory. This is, like, fundamentals theory time.   I think the band was gonna be done with Halloween   after 2016.   I think they just felt the same way as they felt after Big Cypress. This is I'm just I'm I'm,   speculating. Makes total sense. Makes total sense. But, like, the Baker's dozen happens in 2017. Forgot about that. Right? So, no, that wasn't curveball.   2017 was Baker's dozen.   Yeah.   So that's another   reset of base camp of ascending to a whole another level for fish. Yeah. 2018 was curve was was curveball. 2018 was curveball, and there was literally two months in between curveball being canceled and hallow they basically put Halloween on the calendar.   Makes it that much more fucking amazing. They took all their energy and all their upset   about Curveball being canceled   and put it into what   I will probably always say is the great you know, next   next to the White Album in terms of, like,   you know, just how new and great it was, this is the greatest Halloween. It was probably the best the peak absolute peak of Halloween when they did Castle of Fox. We've talked about it on the podcast before, but they invented a band. They created a backstory.  

They flooded the Internet with stories about them. So when people Googled it, they would think it was a real band. They really pulled off the troll. Yeah. And it was musically phenomenal.  

[01:03:41] Unknown:

Yeah. And I was there. You were there. I was saying I was there, and and I and I wasn't there for the Bowie.   So I trust your take that it was the best thing they had done musically. Because I've I've heard it on record. It was perfect. Amazing. It was perfection.   This   2018   Kasparovoxed   was the most amazing   performance   spectacle,   epitome of fish   that I've ever experienced.  

[01:04:05] Unknown:

Epitome of fish, I think, is such a good way to put it.   And I have to tell you, like,   my favorite songs   when I get FOMO, when I see set lists, it's because I still get FOMO when I see, like, turtle MacLeod's and and it Yeah. The set of the clouds. So good. Yep. And, you know, a lot of these Halloween shows are defined by the opening song. You know, they really are like we called it the wingsuit set,   martian monster   Yeah. For chilling thrilling.   You know,   turtle and the clouds define like, it's really especially when it's not an album that you know.   Yes. It get really that first song makes or breaks the set.  

Yeah. And turtle and the clouds are so good.   A, the lyrics were weirdly Scandinavian,   like, wrong and messed up. It was so it was so good. Dance. They were out there in white suits, and Yes. The whole train needed a white guitar. He couldn't paint his fucking guitar white, so he used one of Eric Clapton's   white Stratocasters.  

[01:05:08] Unknown:

White Strats. Yeah. No. And one and one thing I'm gonna point out on on the drumming side. So Fishman   painted all of his cymbals   white,   and it gave them   you've probably seen this before where you've seen, where they'll stack symbols where they'll lay them on top of each other. I think I had to set up like that when we did,   pub gate. Yep. And just creates a real dead sound. It's just it's like it's there and it's gone. It doesn't ring.   And the   paint changed the the tone of all of his cymbals. If you go back and listen to it It's so interesting  

[01:05:42] Unknown:

because the Trey's guitar is solid by sound.   Trey plays a solid by guitar, and that's like, you know, his hollow body sound is signature sound, and it just everything sounds different. To it. Yeah. They really sound like a different band.  

[01:05:54] Unknown:

Yes.   It's so It's almost like their instruments are and dare I say it's like their instruments are frozen. Like, the symbols were frozen.  

[01:06:02] Unknown:

Like, their thoughts.  

[01:06:05] Unknown:

Exactly.  

[01:06:07] Unknown:

That's how that blog post opens. My thoughts are frozen   like everyone else.   But this isn't these were not the words of Hal Finney   who did, you know, spend his fucking Bitcoin   unfreezing his brain. Right? And I theorized that that show, that cast box   that cast vote box show   was like, Hal Finney latching onto that. He found the signal. He found the connection. And He found it. It's like letting everybody know that it worked. Oh, it worked.   This is my plebslop. This is like my plebslop for this. We are You know? Except nobody cares.  

[01:06:42] Unknown:

We are come to outlive our brains.  

[01:06:44] Unknown:

Yeah. We are come to outlive our brains.   So, like,   the feeling   that everybody like, the feeling that the Phish community had after Caswell Vox, I would say was, like, almost   almost like what it was.   You know, the only the the reason it could even compete with the Beatles' white album is because we had video   and social media, and we can just watch it in high quality. Most of us   the hype around the white album, nobody was even gonna hear those tapes for, like, six to seven months. Right.   We're just knowing   just the knowledge that it happened was so Yeah. Just was so insane.  



[01:07:26] Unknown:

Yeah. We used to wait for things, our dear audience. We used to wait.   We used to wait.  

[01:07:34] Unknown:

We ever talk about wait,   the song wait, not the white line song wait, but the fish song wait. Talk about trolling the audience.   I think I used this on an outro once   for the for the show. One of the 22 prior episodes. I used it. It was basically, like right? They were getting pissed off. Like, a bunch of the fans were getting pissed off. Like, they they started possum, and bunch of fans were getting unruly. And they just kept doing this one riff.   And they said   wait. Do do. Wait. And they did it for they did that for, like, eight minutes.  

[01:08:06] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:08:09] Unknown:

Incredible troll.   So the feeling after Caswell Voxed,   it was like Halloween   is   back.   Halloween is back and better than ever. Like, how did they outdo themselves yet again? How the fuck did they do it?   So we're almost at the end of the Halloween story here.   We're gonna go to,   so 2019,   no Halloween.   2020, obviously, no Halloween.   2021,   the last time   the last time we had one.   And,   again,   the rumors,   the trolls,   and Fish started putting   fucking just   clues. Like, you know, we talked about the 21 show. We talked in the '21 show. We talked about all the like, they did they spelled the fucking they would spell a sentence by the first letter of every song that was backwards. And  

[01:09:05] Unknown:

they were putting all the clues, looking for clues that could be Yeah. What do they do? Fuck your face. They did, the s show was all s's.  

[01:09:14] Unknown:

The numb well, yeah. But so but in the the lead up to twenty twenty one Halloween, the three night lead up,   like, the first night was number they put a bunch of numbers in show in songs, and it ended up being like the you know? So who did they cover? They they did a they they invented another band,   and it was called Sci Fi Soldier. They had a comic book, and this band came from the future   from, like, the year   4080   or something like that. It came back from the future, and they referenced Castle Of Vox. They were met referencing this whole universe,   and it was really fucking cool.  



[01:09:49] Unknown:

Yeah. I I'm I'm I was so   I was so balls deep into Bitcoin at this time that I didn't even know this happened.  

[01:09:57] Unknown:

See, I hadn't gotten into Bitcoin yet. I was, like, just I was just starting to,   like,   get peaked.   Yeah. 10/31   yeah. 10/31/2021   was, like, right when   right when I decided to what like, I was gonna, like, watch nobody care about his videos,   who, by the way,   by the time I drop this   guess what?  

[01:10:21] Unknown:

What?  

[01:10:22] Unknown:

Tomorrow morning   tomorrow morning, we get, back on schedule, the rock paper Bitcoin.   Got nobody caribou coming on. Oh, that's so great. I'm so happy to be here. Loop. Yeah. I'm so fucking excited to get him on the list. To it. Good for you.   I got to hang out with him in Canada and, like, close the loop that, like, he's that guy for me, and he got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   So, anyway, yeah, we're right there. We're we are right there in time. So, yeah, you're already, like, post Bitcoin not caring anymore. I was not. I was, like, still full fledged fishy here.   And so the 2021, the last Halloween is pretty pretty legendary. A lot of really good songs came off that, the howling.  

You know, you had all these memes, holy Blankenstein. You know? Like, you had all these just it was really great. And that was the end. They haven't done Halloween since, and I'm guessing they're I'm guessing they may not do it again. They may not do it again, which is fine. Be done. You might be done with Halloween.   I I have a theory.   You got a theory.   When Fish finds Bitcoin,   there will be Halloween again.  

[01:11:30] Unknown:

I love it.