In this heartfelt episode, I sit down with Kyrin from the Mere Mortals Podcasts to discuss the deeply personal and often overlooked topic of grieving the loss of a parent. Kyrin and I share our experiences of losing a parent in 2024 and reflect on the year that has passed since. We delve into the stages of grief, the dreams that have haunted us, and the unexpected moments of peace and spiritual connection that have emerged from our losses. Our conversation touches on the unique challenges of processing grief, the anger and acceptance that accompany it, and the importance of finding solace in shared experiences.
We also explore the impact of changing environments on our healing journeys, from traveling to new places to finding new jobs that offer a sense of peace and fulfillment. Kyrin and I discuss the importance of having supportive friends and the surprising ways they can help us navigate our grief. This episode is a candid exploration of the complexities of mourning, the unexpected moments of humor and connection, and the ongoing journey of healing after losing a loved one.
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[00:00:00]
Cole McCormick:
Sitting down with Kyron down. Kyron, thank you for being here. What's up? You're the man. You're the man, Cole. Thank you. Dude, so pretty much, the reason we're here is because we're in the dead parent club, and we have a very specific experience that we've lived through. Your mom passed away, I believe, in May 2024, and my dad passed away in August 2024. And it's it's been a year since these things happened, and I just wanted to focus on just, like, the grieving process. I feel like there's not a lot of conversations and podcasts about grieving or or about, like, a person literally experiencing it. There might be some sort of doctor or some sort of psychologist talking about it and, you know, maybe this is just because I haven't looked out for it, but, like, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of content about grieving.
So I I I was just curious, like, what's been your, like, overall experience, dude, while we're starting out? Like, what's it been like one year after losing your mom? That's so, like, that sucks, dude. Yeah. Yeah. The
[00:01:10] Kyrin Down:
I I I'd I'd say something similar as well in that it's you'll you'll you can hear about it in kind of various forms of people would say, you know, someone who's lost their mom perhaps, like, five years ago or something like that, but it's not not the kind of full stages, especially like a yeah. Like, getting a a club together and and organizing, like, yeah. Let's let's share, our learnings after one year. Don't get much of that. Yeah. Look. Yeah. Obviously, tremendously, but painful, probably one of the most impactful things that you or I will go through for certainly of the next five, ten years, probably.
The the stinging of it has gone away a lot. So for example, I I would dream about, my mom really often, probably at least once a week for for probably the first nine months, I'd say. And it's actually only really recently that, I've I've noticed that's happening less often and has maybe close to, like, once a month now instead of once a week. So so I think just with time, your your memory of of them fades as as well a little bit, which is, a little bit sad as well because you, you know, memories just fade over time. I don't remember that much from when I was a a kid or and I I, you know, I could probably count, like, 50 memories perhaps if I if I really tallied them all up.
Teenage years, you know, maybe that's couple couple 100 instances and then more recent stuff, obviously. Like, I can recall everything I did yesterday. So as I think now, it's like, yeah. You know what? I'd mom as a kinda entity in my mind is is becoming a bit more crystallized into, I don't know, you know, all all of the moments that were, and it's it's less changing than perhaps it would be as I view my dad now, who is still alive, I still interact with on a week by week basis. And and he's much more like fluid in forming. Like, there can still be differences in our relationship, whereas the relationship I have with my mom is now, like, set in stone. That's that's everything that it had a as it was. So, those are a couple of, like, the instances.
In terms of grieving, yeah, I I guess that just depends on on how it occurred. My mom's battle with Alzheimer's was was just a long, slow process over you know, she was diagnosed in late twenty sixteen. So what was that? You know, eight eight ish years. And so it was very noticeable, the decline, and especially the the last nine months, you know, you're getting stuff being said, like, hey. We'd you know, it's it's unlikely she was gonna be around more than a year from from now. And in fact, it will be less much more likely that it'll be less than that. And that was that was correct. You know, it was it was probably, like, six months after after hearing that, if if that. So those sorts of things, I I guess, were gave me a lot of preparation for what was to come. So, it didn't hit me in terms of just, you know, life shattering.
The two two days after, three days after her passing was was kinda just like, okay. Well, it's it's it's life is normal, I guess. Just now mom isn't here now. So, yeah, those were a couple of things that I noticed for sure. For sure. How how about you for for yourself?
[00:04:55] Cole McCormick:
I mean, it's been, like, wild. So I've had a similar experience with the dreams. I had some pretty intense dreams, with my dad. I shared this one story on the podcast of it was, I think it was in, like, so, like, a month or so, maybe six weeks after the death. And I had this insane dream where I'm in my living room at my childhood home, and I see my dad sitting on the couch. And he, like I I can, like, clearly see him, and he looks like how he did when he was younger and, like, when I was a young kid. Mhmm. And, I, I sat down next to him, and he like, we're just looking at each other. And I said, I just wanna feel you touch my back.
And then, like, I sort of laid down in front of him on the couch on my stomach, and then I physically felt his hand touch my back. And then I was having, like, spasms, like, back spasms in the dream, and I was feeling electricity, like, actually feeling shock within my back muscles. And I was, like, dry heaving in the dream. And then I wake up, and I'm, like, dry heaving in in real life, and my back is spasming in real life. And it took, like, a good five, ten minutes for my body to calm down. I'm like, what is, like, what is going on? What the fuck?
[00:06:17] Kyrin Down:
And, That's an intense way to wake up.
[00:06:20] Cole McCormick:
It was and, you know, and me being a spiritual person, you know, I sorta take that as, like, as a spiritual confirmation of, like, there was some real communication there because, like, I've never heard of that from anyone. Like, that's some like, it's spooky. It it it if if it's not spiritual, it's certainly spooky. Mhmm. And it's, either way you wanna go with it. It was super intense. You know? And, I I remember telling that story to my mom, and I'm, like, crying to her. I'm like, it's just like I didn't think I would experience that. You know? Because, like, you might have, like, a normal night. You know? Just go to bed normal, and then you don't know what you're gonna dream.
And it's, and then that happens. Yeah.
[00:07:01] Kyrin Down:
How does he appear to you in in in your dreams? Because mom, for example, sometimes with with her, Alzheimer's, it changed her personality a lot. And, physically, she she decayed a bit, but she was still quite strong. Like, she was still, like, a strong lady. Like, if she gripped your arm, like, it would it would hurt. And, for example, with her, she was always very calm, measured in, prior prior to the Alzheimer's. And then, towards the end, especially the last nine months, she there was, like, a real personality switch within her. And, she became very violent, angry, in a lot of pain, suffering, and things like that. And sometimes in my dreams, probably most of the time, it was in her final states, which was, quite distressing. You know? It was distressing at the time. In my dreams, it was still distressing.
But a couple of times, it would be her, as as she once was, like, as a younger, you know, probably probably around my age now, like, you know, early thirties is how I would remember her. And that that was quite those were nice. Those were kinda cathartic in a way. So those I had some real variations of of the ways she would appear to me in my dreams as well.
[00:08:32] Cole McCormick:
Would she appear to you like older? Because, like, my dad has always been, like, his younger self. He was never, like, in his forties. He was never sick in my dream. He was always, like, how I remember him at Disney. You know? Yeah. No. No. Mom mom was mostly
[00:08:46] Kyrin Down:
how she was right towards the end. Yeah. So Interesting. Just just before she passed, which Interesting. Which I guess I think for me is just more kinda like I was saying. I that's my more recent memories of her. That's how I remember her more. What I'm hoping is over time, actually, that I'll remember her probably more as like she was when I was a kid because I have you know, I've I've got photos of her over the last couple of years as well, but, I'm I'm certainly more interested and more wanting to watch, you know, old videos and old photos of her, as compared to, like, the the more recent stuff, which is, you know, much more, harder. It's certainly harder to to do that. So I'm I'm wondering if that will kinda change over time as well for myself.
[00:09:42] Cole McCormick:
I hope it does, dude. I mean, I'd never I mean, I think there's just so much trauma when it comes to, like, the end of the life. You know? Some people might you know, that might be, like, a really sticking memory. But for me, like, my family has photos, a few weeks before he died. There's, like it was his birthday in July, and then he passed in August. Right? And so we got the whole family together, and we have, like, these last family photos, during sunset in our backyard. And, you know, like, he was, like, able to walk and talk, you know, and he was able to, like, be normal somewhat, but that was definitely, like, towards the end. And he was, like, definitely withering, and I have like, I don't wanna remember him like that. Like, that just seems like, they're beautiful pictures, but it's just, like, such a sad image, compared to, you know, like, the same year, six months prior on my birthday. You know, he looks completely normal on my birthday, and so I'd rather I'm just happy that I can have that image of him looking somewhat normal,
[00:10:42] Kyrin Down:
rather than towards the end because, like, the end just sucked. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that's that's fine to do as well. You know, some some people might arguing like, oh, yeah. You're leaning away. You you know, you're obviously trying to hide away from perhaps this this version of him and that that speaks more to you than perhaps, you know, the reality of it. You're trying to deny reality or something like this. I kind of view something like that, and not that anyone said that, but, you know, that's that's kind of a thing that is worth considering maybe. But I I view that more as more, kind of if if we were to look at the dreams, for example, if you go back to to Freud, he he would analyze your dreams and, you know, you he'll there was always don't think there was ever a time where he'd look at a dream and so and say someone and be just like, yeah. That's just a dream. Yeah. You know? Maybe you were just hungry. It's always like, no. You wanted to have sex with your mom, and you wanted to fight with your dad because of that and, like, eat a pool complex or, like, you're all messed up and things like this.
And I'm I'm more of the, opinion that things like that is just you know what? Sometimes you know, I I I remember this dream I had as a kid where I was kinda do you know the Dover Cliffs? The, there there are these cliffs. I think they're in the in The UK. And, just really, really steep cliffs. And I remember it was it was the like, a photo that I'd seen of them. And I was kinda closer to the bottom or wherever the photo was taken from. There was this cow at the top, and the cow fell off the cliff. And I and I shot it with a rocket launcher, and the cow exploded. And I I just remember thinking like, man, what what can you take away from that dream?
Like, how how how deep can you really analyze that? Or or can you just go like, wow. That's a really fucking weird dream and just leave it at that? Yeah. Yeah. Some dreams are random. I definitely believe that as well. Some like, some dreams mean something. Some dreams do not. You know, some dreams are just your subconscious swirling for no reason. Yeah. Yeah. I and I'm I'm the same. There's there's certainly things where it can perhaps expose to yourself. You go, oh, you know, this is something I am thinking about, or this is a relationship, issue or, perhaps something that's in the back of your mind that you've never voiced particularly. Sure. I I'm totally on board with that.
So for myself, when I when I look at some of the behaviors or things that I did, I I can go, oh, okay. That was obviously a direct impact of of mom passing. The week after, she passed was probably the most dangerous time of my life for myself because I remember I was driving what no. I don't I don't wanna say erratically, but I certainly cared less. And so, you know, and that that reflected in some of my other behaviors as well, where I was just it was semi self destructive. You know, I just stopped caring about a bunch of things. Thankfully, that only lasted a week. And, you know, I'm less at risk of dying in a car crash because of that.
And then and then other things is just, yeah, the more longer time scale stuff, wanting to leave Australia and go to Brazil for for a few months. I actually was in Brazil when,
[00:14:12] Cole McCormick:
I got the news. That's right. You were traveling, dude. You had to fly across the freaking world to, like, experience that. That's so crazy. Yeah. That was that was intense because,
[00:14:21] Kyrin Down:
you know, I'd I was in a a bit of a rut in terms of just feeling like I've been in Australia the last, what, four years. I really enjoy traveling. Ever since COVID, I'd I'd kinda been in Australia just hanging around really. I felt probably this is due to COVID as well. I just I felt like many many years were just kind of passing by. 2021 and 2022, for example, those years are just a blur. They, you know, lockdowns and then, you know, it's it's it's so strange how we're all just now now, like, past it all. It's like it never happened. Yeah. It's all normal now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, so I felt like I I needed to get out of Australia, do do something a little bit different, just kinda change up my pattern routine whilst also knowing, you know, the doc doctors had said, you know, your mom might last a year. She might last a couple months. Like, it was very up in the air.
And, I actually consulted my my brother and dad about this because I was saying, like, you know, what do you guys think? I obviously want to be here. I'd love to help. But by that stage, mom was in the hospital, didn't recognize me. Only one she kind of recognized was was my dad. And even then, like like she was already gone in many ways. That was that was her body was still physically there, but her mind was not. And I remember, you know, asking them, like, what do you guys think? Like, I I feel like I'm just torturing myself being here with her. I'd, you know, I want to be here and and, I guess, like, help be there for her, but there's nothing I'm doing. Like, nothing it's not making a difference. It's just worsening my life.
And, you know, then I also already had kind of some stuff booked in. Like, I'd already booked the flights. I'd already done these other things. And so, yeah, I I with with, you know, upon consulting them and doctors and stuff, it was just like, alright. You know, I'll travel. And if I have to come back, I'll I'll come back. And it ended up being one month. So, you know, it was it was kinda worth it in a sense. And I got lucky in that I was able to come back and, you know, spend one last time with her before she passed away the the night that I returned.
[00:16:50] Cole McCormick:
So I kind of was crazy. And what was that like? Like like, can you like, retrospectively, can you believe, like, you had one more night? Like, that's so that's wild. Yeah. Yeah. I
[00:17:01] Kyrin Down:
I'm probably I'm definitely not as much spiritual as you are, but I I certainly, have have portions of me who who who likes to dive into that that likes to dive into it. And Mhmm. Yeah. Coming back by this stage, she was just, on on kind of fluids and stuff, just in a bed, you know, basically in a coma, I guess you'd call it call it. And, I got to, you know, straight from the airport, I went to see her. So I was already you know, that was must have been, like, a thirty something hour flight. And so I was I was pretty wrecked. And, just but, you know, still I was still lucid enough. And, yeah, just just seeing at her, it was it was nice to see her calm even though she was, you know, essentially just very emaciated, and the prognosis was, you know, she's now got a couple of days left.
And, I remember at one point, I was, just alone with her for a couple of minutes and, you know, just just like holding her hand, being next to her, and and was just talking to her. And I kinda saw, like, her eyelids flutter. And this is one of those times where it's like, you know, did she was that just fluttering eyelids? Was that her actually hearing my voice? Was there something deep inside of her that recognized that I was now home and, you know, perhaps she could pass away now. All all of those sorts of things. I don't know. I don't know about that sort of stuff. But, yeah, it was very intense and then very sad, you know, Probably, like, one of the deepest sleeps of my life, that night because I was so wrecked and then waking up to a message from dad saying, you know, she'd passed away at midnight. So, intense, intense men. Yeah. And, yeah, just going through all the normal things of of kind of crying a lot those those next couple of days.
Yeah. That's crazy, dude. It sounded kind of just as intense as as your experience. So I remember hearing hearing your detail on that.
[00:19:24] Cole McCormick:
Oh my god. Yeah, dude. It's like, you know, it was, like, one week of hospice. Right? So my dad dies of cancer, right, or dies, you know, technically, of liver disease, liver failure, because the cancer was in his liver. And it's like, you're just seeing this guy turn yellow and, like, smaller and, like, shrinking. Parts of his body are shrinking, and parts of his body are getting inflamed and stuff like that. It's like, like, what is going on here? And has, it's not that he wasn't, forgetting, but he was, like, uncommunicative. You know? So it's like just like that whole seeing that progression happen within that one week, it's just like, woah. Like, that was, like, that was one that was one thing that, like, really hit me, I remember. It's just like there was one day where so he, he needed, like, help walking to the bathroom. Right? And when I first got home, and the whole thing happened at home, which is, I think, is another, like, crazy experience. I'm not sure if any other people I'm not sure how many people have that experience. So that's my childhood home, and, like, they bought that twenty years ago.
And it's like, I don't know how many people have that specific experience, but when I first get there, he needed help walking to the bathroom. And at first, it was just, like, just, like, balancing because, like, his could because his his legs were swollen. And then, there was, like, a little decline the next day. And then whenever he would do it, he would, like, have his hands on my shoulders, and he would, like, always, like, squeeze my shoulders. Whether it's either because of, like, he's just, like, telling me that he loves me through that touch or, like, he actually, like, needs that help balancing, whatever. Most likely both.
One day like, one morning, I'm helping him to the bathroom, and, like, his grip was just, like, not there. Like, just not there at all. Like, barely a hand on my shoulder. And his head was just, like, droopier. And I was like, what the fuck is this? Like, it's like you don't know what death is gonna look like until you're right there, man. And so and it's so unique for everyone else. And, you know, luckily, you know, I think the the silver lining in both of our stories is that there was, like, a peaceful in the night passing.
You know, that's, like, probably one of the best things that could happen. You know, randomly, I saw this movie, you know, they just put out this movie twenty eight years later. It's that, like, sequel to that zombie movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, dude, like, there's this line. The actor, the same actor who plays Voldemort in the Harry Potter movies, he's in the movie. Right? And he plays, like, he plays his doctor, and he's talking to this kid, and this kid's mom has cancer. And this doctor, dude, he has this, like, insane line of, like, how, like, how there's different types of deaths. And, like, the best deaths are the peaceful ones. And I'm crying my eyes out at this zombie movie.
Like, it's crazy, dude. And but, like, that line really hit me in that film because it's like, wow. Like like, even though, like, there's, like, such pain, I'm able to, like, still, like, be grateful that, like, there wasn't, like, that much suffering, you know? And at least, like, he did die in his sleep, and, like, that's, like, how everyone would wanna go. And it's, like, when I, when I think about that last night, I just said goodnight to him like normal. And he sort of, like, did, like, a little, like, wave and, like, you know, little mumble, like, goodnight. Love you. And, you know, like, that was, like, ironically as well, that was, like, when, like, my grandparents had came came over, and they had spoke to him. And my aunt came over, and they weren't that present during the week of hospice, but they were there that night. And then, like, after that night when they all show up is when he dies. It's just like there's, like, these serendipity things that happen.
And, just like the night was sad, but it was also so normal. And, like, I also had, like, a a a peaceful night sleep somewhat because my mom then wakes me up at, like, four in the morning. And then it's like, you know, my mom was the one who found out who, like, you know, she was laying right next to him. And so just, like, that whole morning was just, like it was surreal. And, you know, just because of the way I am, because because my family grew up Christian, I see that night as, like, holy in some sense. You know? It was like, you know, you get this early morning. You know? There's always this, like, lore of early morning. When if you, like, wanna be successful, you wake up early in the morning. If you wanna, connect with God, you wake up early in the morning. It's just like, you know, when you have that death early in the morning, like, that's just that that really hit me in a really interesting way.
And just, like, seeing the sunrise on that type of day was really crazy.
[00:24:05] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. I bet. The do do you feel the have you seen many differences between the way you've handled handled it, reacted to to the passing compared to to family members?
[00:24:22] Cole McCormick:
I would say I've had the most spiritual experience. Even though my whole family is Christian, I do not identify as a Christian, but my experience post death has been more spiritual. For some reason and maybe this is my ego talking, but, like, for some reason, I feel like I am more like, I have a better grasp on the spiritual, side of this whole situation than everyone in my family. I'm not too sure how my sisters are dealing with it. Like, my sisters are okay, but, like, I haven't really had, like, deep spiritual conversations with them. It's hard to talk to my grandparents who've been Christians for decades and decades.
Like, I'm not connecting with them spiritually, and, you know, and my mom just going through what she did, like, it's like it it's not there. Like, it's like if I say something spiritual, like, it doesn't really click or, like, it's not really, like, getting to them somehow. And for some reason, I just have this it feels like I have, like, some knowing, you know, and just, like, this, like, this piece about the spiritual side of things and, trying to trying to, just look on the more grateful side of things and try to look on the more, like, what the value of the life is more important than the loss of the life.
That's sort of, like, where my spirituality goes from that. Mhmm. But, like, along with that, though, that that that first month, you know, I'm you know, I was sort of in the same boat as you were. I'm just like I was being pretty self destructive. Wasn't really working out. I tried to work out. I don't remember working out that first month. I, drinking a lot, smoking a lot of weed. I ended up, I stopped smoking weed since then. So, like, I I haven't smoked weed since, this past October, so almost a year ago. But I was smoking a lot of weed and drinking a lot of drinks. And, my my family's house doesn't help me at all because, like, my parents were always, like like, the party people. You know? Like, they would always if there was any party to be had, it was probably at our house.
And so and they made a whole we call it, like, the beverage station. You know? We got the coffee. We got the mini fridge. We got a whole, like, pretty it's a huge line of alcohol and liquor and stuff like that. And so all of us, the four of us or five of us, my my dad's mom was there with us. So we were just making mixed drinks, you know, having a little routine with that, and some of us would drink in the morning. Some most of us were drinking in the morning.
[00:26:57] Kyrin Down:
The usual routine That's usually a bad sign.
[00:27:01] Cole McCormick:
Dude, you have no idea, Kai. Like, we're smoking. So, like, my sisters and I, we would go to the dispensary. We get our we get, like, the normal flower weed, and then we also get our vapes. And so we're vaping in the morning. We're smoking out of a bong in the morning, then we're then we're having some breakfast, and then we're, making a little cocktail. We're, like, getting a little we're putting a little whiskey in the coffee. Like, it wasn't good. And, I ended up, meeting up with an old friend from from school. I'd known this guy since I was, like, five years old, towards the August.
And him and I went to the bar, and it was like, a, he was like, he wanted to talk to me and hang out with me because of my dad, but also we hadn't seen each other in years, and so it was like a catch up. And we're at the bar. We're having a good time. We're having a fucking awesome time at the bar. And I'm drinking, like I had, like, four Moscow mules. That's, like, my go to drink. You know? A little bit of ginger beer, a little bit of vodka. Yeah, dude. A little bit of lime. So, like, I have, like, four of those, and he pays for them. And then we're going to another bar, and, like, I end up just like, I shouldn't have driven home, but I did. You know?
And, I remember that next morning, I'm, like, super hungover. And before all of this, right, I was, like, meditating. I've been practicing meditating and just, like, mainly just, like, calming my, like, calming my breath and trying to conjure up positive emotions and trying to feel that in my heart. It's a very specific meditation. And, I just had, like, the instinct to do it even though I was hungover. And I had this insane moment that I did not anticipate and I was not trying to achieve, but I was in my room and just, like, sitting on my bed, and the lights were off. And all of a sudden, I was getting, like it was, like it it wasn't a voice. I was, like, seeing, like, words flicker, like, almost like a ro like an old fashioned rolodex. It was like a rolodex of words, and the words were like a message. Just like just, like, flipping through like that.
And the message that I was, like, getting was you need to consume less. And, pretty much and, like, everything that I was, like, consuming, you know, it was, like, being shown to me. And and I took, like, a moment. I was like, am I thinking this? Am I feeling guilty for drinking? Like and I literally, like it was this weird thing where in my mind, I took a step back, and I was like, am I thinking these thoughts? And a certain thing within me said, like, no. You're not thinking these thoughts. These are coming from somewhere else. And this, like, you know, just you need to you need to drink less. You need to smoke less. You need to look at less porn.
Just over and over and over and over and over again, I'm like, wow. This is real. That's a real message right there. And so, after that moment, I sort of just, like I did my best to slow down, and I'm like, okay. Now I need to, like, phase myself out of this. And I've and luckily, I've been able to do that. I'm still battling some bosses here and there, but, you know, the good thing is that I'm aware. You know?
[00:30:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. The, that that's that seems normal to to go through something like that, especially right afterwards. There's, I actually probably the thing that I've found is the most sticky in terms of something I I I need to work on or pay more attention to is is finally enough anger. I'm not normally an angry dude. It's it's not a an emotion I've ever really felt connected with, even if people, like, cut me off in traffic or things like that. Anger is not my go to. It's not my normal reaction. But I have certainly felt a lot of resentment.
Yeah. I'd call it anger at times, not towards people or anything. Almost if anything, it'd be towards the world a little bit just as a as a as a concept towards the universe. Like, how, you know, why why did mom suffer like this? How dare you make her suffer like this? That that sort of feeling. The I went for a workout the the next day after after mom passed. And I was outdoor. It was like, beautiful, beautiful, like, winter day here in in Brisbane. So just think, like, 20 degrees Celsius temperature, like, sun is on you. No wind. It's really nice. And, I was just out out by the river.
And, you know, I'm I'm just doing it just for the sake of doing it. Not not because I particularly really wanna be there, although I do enjoy workouts just in general. So maybe there was, you know, a little bit of, like, you get the endorphin boost and whatnot. And there was these kind of punk teenagers who were just, you know, just like shitheads, just real shitheads who I had seen around that area before. And they so they kind of knew me and came up to me and just started being like dickheads, like, you know, getting the phone out in your face. And so I'm just doing handstands there. And they're like, oh, you're on TikTok TikTok now. Do you wanna say it to the other people? Even though obviously I wasn't on TikTok. That was just just just, you know, just teenagers being teenagers, man, and and shitty teenagers.
No. Don't don't wanna throw them all under the bus. And that Well, we can throw them. We can throw them and run them over. Uh-oh. Yeah. Well, dude, that was that was the closest I've ever come to probably physically assaulting someone because those those guys were just so bad. And it got to the, you know, I was trying to it's one of those ones where you probably need to be aggressive right at the start to to establish dominance of, like, hey. Don't fuck with me. Whereas I was more in of a, like, just leave me alone type of mood, which, of course, they they think like, oh, easy prey or something. So now we can, like, really fuck with this guy.
So I've got to the point where I I've, like, told one of them, like, don't you need to leave now. I don't think I threatened him with violence, but it was certainly the undertone of, like, you need to leave now. And thankfully, that got through to them and they and they left, helped being physically bigger than them. So they were still, like, on the 13 to 14 year old side of things. Yeah. But, yeah, that that anger is is kind of that's probably one of the things that's stayed with me a little bit. It pops up every now and then, so it's not like an all consuming thing that I feel all the time or anything like that. But it certainly hung around much longer than I would have perhaps expected.
And that's, I guess, you know, probably delving into the spiritual side of things because, I I haven't really found a, like, gratitude in mom's passing. I've I've view the the whole event as has been purely, I guess, like a negative thing. So, yeah, that's that's one where it's I go, yeah. Maybe I probably need to to investigate that a little bit more or try and figure out what's what's kind of beneath that.
[00:34:40] Cole McCormick:
Right. Well, it's funny you bring up anger because that's, like, a part of the grieving stages. Right? Mhmm. And, so so I I have them up right here. There's there's denial, there's anger, there's bargaining, there's depression, and then there's acceptance. Yeah. And so, I mean, from speaking to myself, I would say, like, I would replace the word denial for shock. Yep. Like, I knew he was dead. I'm not denying that he that he's dead the morning of, but it was definitely shocking that first month. And I was certainly angry for, like, a few months.
For for my own journey, I could sort of see, like, a linear path. And then as, like, as we're in these current summer months of 2025, I've been sort of going back and forth, sort of like a hopscotch hopscotching around these different stages, but the large majority of this past year has been somewhat linear. And maybe the for some reason, a part of me, like, I sort of when I'm reading this, I sort of equate acceptance with gratitude. So maybe somewhere, like, I've been able to accept it sooner while I'm also feeling angry, while I'm also trying to bargain with things. And maybe, like, you know, it it sounds like anger is like that similar thing where, like, you might feel bargaining or maybe there's a day when you feel acceptance, but then you're still angry.
You know? So that's very interesting.
[00:36:07] Kyrin Down:
I read the book where that came from. I think it's called On Grief Engraving Elizabeth
[00:36:13] Cole McCormick:
Kubler Ross, maybe, and and someone else. Is it bullshit? Is it a lie? Was she a Nazi?
[00:36:19] Kyrin Down:
I don't think it was that bad. No. It it's look. It it's a qualitative description. It's it's not something quantitative, so you can't go, alright. This person is going through x amount units of of denial. Now they're onto x amount units of anger or something like that. The whole the whole thing was it was meant to be viewed more as a framework, I think. Yeah. More as yeah. It was kind of like a a a therapy slash understanding. It's kinda it's more on the longer line. It's a more honestly, it's more of a spiritual book than it is a, perhaps a medical type book.
Interesting. It's more descriptive in terms of, hey. These are some of the things that you might experience, and and they themselves say, like, yeah. These are commonalities that we've noticed. I believe she was a, what was she in particular? Certainly something to do with, like, hospice care, and the other author, I think, had perhaps a bit of a, Zen type background or something like that, if I recall correctly. And the they were just saying, like, look. Here's some commonalities we've noticed. Here's five the five stages. They're not necessarily linear, although this is the common pattern that they go through.
You might spend one stay it'd be in one stage much longer. It was also a book to kind of help people who are perhaps friends of someone who had someone passed to understand where they might be, what they might be experiencing. So it's certainly certainly more just a, like, a little tool in the tool chest to help use for either yourself or for other people. And, yeah, it's it's I think it's decent enough. Like, I'd I'd say there was periods where I I would say, yeah. You know what? I was kind of in the bargaining stage. And and for me, for example, a lot of this happened before she actually passed away. So Mhmm. Because it was so obvious it was coming in so many years in advance. I remember thinking things along the lines of like, oh, yeah. If there was a big red button that I could press that would, you know, kill off all of humanity or something like that, but mom would be alive, be not alive again. She was still alive, but, you know, be be healthy.
I'd press the button. You know, that that's kind of like bargaining. Depression yeah. That that's probably why I wanted to go to Brazil. You know? There was just such a feeling of malaise of that I was going nowhere, doing nothing, and not enjoying myself. You know, that's that's probably along those lines. Acceptance. You know? Here we are both talking about it. We're not bursting out into tears. We're not trying to avoid what happened. So I'd I'd say we're probably both along that sort of lines in terms of where we're at, but it's a it was it was an okay book to read, and I think the those five stages can be useful in a in a sense. But there's probably other like you said, you you'd maybe replace shock for denial and gratitude for acceptance. Those those are those those seem reasonable to me to say, yeah. But you you you can experience other things as well.
Perhaps even Yeah, man. Perhaps even, you know, hatred instead of anger if it was your your loved one passed from being hit by a drunk driver or from a, you know, accidental manslaughter or some sort of death.
[00:39:52] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Anger is interesting because, like, I remember feeling angry, but I wasn't like I was I wasn't angry at anyone. It was more like an aggression. I just felt, like, aggressive. I just wanted to, like, get shit done. Like, I just I I wanted to like, I was ready to fight anyone. If someone wanted to fight me, like, if one of my so I was working at a restaurant at the time as a prep cook, and, like, I was in this mood of, like, if anyone's if any if any of my bosses tell me I'm not doing a good job, like, I swear to god, I'm gonna I'm gonna punch him. I'm I'm gonna walk out, and just like, you're gonna have to sue me. You're gonna, like, fuck you. Like, you're gonna I don't care. And I would do this, like, I would do this thing in, like, in the morning, like, I just wanna go. I just wanna get my shit done today, dude. Yeah. I'll try to I'll try to hype myself up to have, like, a good day at work, but then I'm, like, imagining just, like, punching somebody. Yeah.
It's very it's very yin yang thing in my head, dark and light at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I've felt similar things. It's funny how you can feel that. Right? Because it's like you're not because I was always raised to not be that, to not be the aggressive guy, to not, you know, be like, because I have two younger sisters. So it was all like, cool. Be gentle with your with your sisters. Be gentle with your sisters. And it was just it's an emotion that I wasn't used to, or, like, it's an emotion that maybe I would have only had experienced in private when, like, I think about something that I think is, like, injustice or something and not something that literally affects my entire life. You know? But now I'm feeling this aggressive feeling because my life has changed in such a dramatic way, and I don't care who's in front of me. Like, just like, I'm gonna I'm gonna bulldoze you right now.
[00:41:32] Kyrin Down:
You know, the, the things that I was just reflecting upon then was I've I've had, like, all of these moments. Obviously, you spend most of your time alone and in your own head sort of deal. And if if in just terms about, like, thinking about things, you spend more time thinking than you actually do speaking. But some some of the, like, the probably most helpful moments have actually just been speaking with with some friends. So, there was and and it's kind of hard to get these moments. Maybe it was like you with your friend where you have to create a moment that's a bit more unique or certainly not in the the normal day to day life sort of things.
You know, I I see one every every weekend for the the podcast is my cohost on the on the mere models. And, you know, talking about mom is just not gonna be something that regularly comes up because, you know, we're talking about other things. We're talking about more like logistics or whatever. Mhmm. Whatever's going on else in our lives. But there's moments you can have where you're in a unique situation. Two that come to mind for me were, when I was in Brazil, I made basically, some mom passed. I was here a month for the until the funeral and then or memorial service, I should say. And then I went back to Brazil, and then I had this, jeez. How long was the car trip? It was about, like, I think it was probably up close to fifteen hours driving over two days, with my friend Lucas.
And so, you know, there's a lot of time to talk about things with someone over over a fifteen hour car trip. And, talking, you know, the first half of it, the first, to the our destination, we didn't talk that much. But on the way back, yeah, that was that was a bit where I was talking about my mom, and then, you know, he opened up a little bit about how he was experiencing similar things when his grandfather died. Another one recent more recently was, when I was in Athens with, another good friend of mine, Joey. And we're on a rooftop, and we're looking at the Parthenon of the Acropolis. And it was it's right there in front of us. It was stunningly how big it is and how close.
And it was this real feeling of just like, holy shit. I'm in I'm like, I'm in ancient Greece at the right I'm in Greece, but when that's all you can see, the Parthenon, you're like, combination Greece. And we're we're just That's cool. We're just on the rooftop. You know? We're having maybe one one one or two drinks, got some music playing. And it just hit me that, oh, man. This is the exact sort of place I would have loved to have traveled with my mom. Neither my brother nor my dad were were big kind of travelers. I love traveling.
And this was something that if she had been alive and well, this is a 100% something we would have done together. And it would have been an amazing moment. It would have been amazing bonding, all those sorts of things. And that was probably one of the first times I really went like, fuck. I'm really, really because when when they pass, I guess, you you're you're sorrowful of, I guess, the what what was or what is, I guess. And that was a moment where I'm like, oh, this is what could have been. I could have been here with her. And, you know, I kinda talked with Joey about that in the moment and shared that.
And and he was really supportive of it and and just, you know, more listening than anything. And then right right at towards the end, we're talking about, you know, obviously, traveling traveling with mom. And I was saying like, oh, yeah. No. We'd no. We did get to do a little bit here and there. One of the first things we did, when she got diagnosed was she said she wanted to visit Ayers Rock in Australia, Uluru. And so we we did that. And to go through, to Ayers Rock, which is in like, right in the center of of Australia, normally, you'll have fly into Alice Springs, which is the one of the bigger towns nearby there, and and then go to there. And Alice Springs is a bit of a shithole.
It's a lot of a shithole, in fact. It's it's, you know, just just out in the middle of nowhere. They've got a lot of the a lot of the Aboriginals there have this kind of real hard time mixing with this, I guess, Australian culture, especially it's kind of like, I guess, the, Native Americans, with alcohol, especially. Like, you know, it's it's not good for their systems. Like, they can't handle it, kind of like the Europeans. Europeans can. European heritage. And so, you know, there's a lot of social problems there. It's and it's just in the middle of nowhere, man. Like, it's it's not a nice place. And we'd been talking about that about a week earlier. And so he's like, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. So your mom gets diagnosed with with with, like, you know, this awful awful degenerative disease.
And so your first thing to do is to take her to the worst place on Earth, which is, we're just, losing our shit and laughing. And he really turned to this moment that could have been a purely negative experience of, you know, here I am looking at the Parthenon and moping about what could have been. And he really flipped it on its head into one of the funniest things I've I've heard in, like, ages. And, I think having having moments like that as well where you you can share it with other people, even if they are gonna struggle to perhaps, you know, understand if they've never had a, a loved one pass, or I I I think just sharing things and not looking forward for any kind of conclusion or resolution or, help or guidance or advice, just just simply sharing it, in those moments. I I I look back now and I go like, oh, that was really beneficial. That was probably more helpful than any amount of, like, journaling or inner work or any sort of stuff that I could have done. It was, yeah, just simply sharing that with someone, but not not like placing the burden on them either. Just just simply, like, you know, this is what happened. This is what I'm feeling at the time.
Yeah. Do you have any moments like that?
[00:48:13] Cole McCormick:
Yes and no. For a few friends of mine, they seem to be really sympathetic for me, and, you know, they're willing to just, like, listen to me. Mhmm. And but I think at the same time, I have, maybe I failed in some relationships where hello, kat. I feel like in some relationships, I failed where I, I might have put a burden of wanting someone to to help me with closure or to help me with with something, with some sort of nurturing thing. But then, like, judging them for not providing that or judging them for not being whatever I think they should be.
And so, like, just hearing you say that, it's like, yeah. I, seem to drop my expectations sometimes for some people. But then, like, that, like, hurts me. You know? Like, that, like, hurts my heart. It's like because I want certain people in my life to to be that or, like, to to have some sort of instinct to just, like, to know exactly what I need. You know? And maybe that's just, like, me crying out for myself or me just, like, not opening up to oh, just generally not opening up enough to allow that person to give me what they're able to give me. You know, I'm sort of I feel like in the last year, I've I've judged a few people in my life where it's like, you're not doing enough for me.
And but then, like, I'm just being quiet, or, like, I don't really wanna share what's going on. I just wanna, like, internalize it. I wanna figure it out for myself, which is low key like a story throughout my whole life. Like, just trying to figure things out on my own, like, sort of listening to people's advice, but also being disappointed by different leaders as I was growing up and realizing that maybe a lot of people don't really know what the fuck they're talking about when they're talking to me. So And maybe I just need to figure it out on my own. And so I, yeah, man. It's it's very interesting. I'm sort of having, like, a humbling moment right now just like like because it's like, I feel justified in the judgment, but then I know that the judgment is no good, but then there's just, like, pragmatic side of it. It's like, what do I need? You know? And, like, what I need is not being provided for right now.
So it's very interesting that I'm very happy that you had that experience. I had that experience with a few friends at work at the restaurant where they were, you know, they're just, like one of them was Christian. One of them wasn't really, but he was, like, very, empathetic, very compassionate. And so, like, those two guys were able to just, like, you know, just just let me talk and just, like, hear me out, listen to me when I have, like, a funny story, you know, to share about my dad because my dad has, like, a, like, a a gazillion funny stories that I'm, like, trying to, like, remember. I'm trying to, like, remember, like, how to tell it the right way, the way that he would tell it. Mhmm. And, just trying to make sure that, like, I I say it in a way that that puts him in, like, a funny light and, like, a good light. You know?
And so they were very they were very helpful with that. But then I also think you also see a lot of people's immaturity when it comes to this thing. And not in a in a judgmental way, but it's just sort of there. You sort of see, like, who's able to walk up and show up without even asking, you know, just like just being just being empathetic or or or being vocal about being present with you. Some people just were not that, and you're able to see that. You know, I'm not sure what you experienced, but that's and I'm certainly not even trying to, like, throw anyone on under the bus, you know, just like this is just what death is or I I'm sort of interpreting as, like, when these giant life things happen, you know, some people aren't preparing themselves for that, or some people are not ready to experience that with you. And it's just it's your individual journey to experience that because I certainly feel more prepared. Like, if there's someone in my life who loses somebody, you know, I definitely have that side of me now. It's like, well, I definitely know how to talk to them or at least I think I do. You know, I'm not gonna try to hover over them, but I'm certainly gonna I feel like I have the words. You know? I feel like I have the wisdom to at least, to have some sort of a positive impact in that person's life, I'm assuming, but maybe maybe not. It's a
[00:52:37] Kyrin Down:
tough, tricky ground that I think you gotta just test out for yourself. For for myself, for example, I think trying to just be as open right at the start as possible. So for example, you know, you ask someone how their day is going. Almost always, you'll just hear, yeah. Good. And and, you know, they could be having the worst day of their life, and they'll still they'll still say that. I try and say, yeah. You know what? I had a I had a crappy happy, a crappy moment. Today, I'm feeling super tired and just, like, baked today. You know? I I don't wanna do anything, etcetera, etcetera. And I was kind of thinking, yeah. You know what? There was some moments where I'd I'd I'd perhaps mention, like, oh, you know, mom my mom passed last year or something like this.
And sometimes I would do it in the sense of it was the right moment to bring up in a conversation. And then other times, I'd noticed I was doing it because, you know, perhaps it it was a, a way of forcing a connection with someone or or something like that. And and you can have you can do it the opposite ways as well, where you bring it up with someone and and they're obviously not in a place where they want to talk about that. You know, perhaps death is discomfort uncomfortable to them. Perhaps talking with you about serious things is uncomfortable. And you find that with some friends, they'll they'll give you what you perhaps what you were expecting, perhaps what you want, and then others weren't. And then random strangers can be vice versa as well.
One thing I I I noticed once probably two years ago, it was when I was much more deeper into the kind of podcasts, and I was trying to make them more of a, a serious gig, as a job than than perhaps they are for myself now. And I remember there was there was some moments where, this was before I'd I'd ever talked about mom's illness. And I was thinking of bringing it up on the podcast or talking about it. And, I realized like, oh, you know what? The probable reason I'd probably be doing that gross as it is would be for for kind of engagement. And you can see people do that where they will bring up stuff, talk about things probably more for the reason of wanting to gain an audience or a following or a reaction rather than because it's something they think is helpful or valuable or it's it's what they actually want to do. You know?
And so I didn't at the time, and I'm I'm very glad and thankful that I didn't. And it was only when mom's illness was getting really bad that it was actually impacting the podcast where I had to put up, like, a little mini explanation saying, like, hey. I'm just need to stop for a while. Like, that and there's the reason why. So
[00:55:45] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. I just stopped, dude. I just stopped making podcasts. I'm just I'm not gonna do any announcement. I just, like, you know, like because I was in the same boat you were. I was like, I'm not gonna do this for content. Like, there's no way. I need to, like, just take my time with it, and maybe I'll be open about it. But me being open about it will just be that. I just feel like being open about it, and that'll just be from my own internal, like, wanting to be wanting to express myself, not from a place of content or wanting attention. Like, I just need to get this out, and maybe it will help somebody.
[00:56:18] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Sure. Sure. And similar thing, you know, if if the file got corrupted for this, it was still immensely valuable chatting with you, and I'm I'm glad we did. Hopefully it hopefully it doesn't. And but but it's kind of that expectation and and learning what how how other people will react to you bringing up these things as well. Take takes a bit of, I guess, like, nuance and and testing out the waters as well. I would say, you know, I as my dad was the closest to my mom, he was looking after her the most in the the whole period. You know? She couldn't drive. That was so she was very reliant on him or myself and my brother for driving. And then, especially, like, the last nine months, he was the one spending spending the most care for her. And then when she eventually needed to go to the hospital, was was visiting her a lot there as well.
And, I've I haven't really, I would say, had a deep conversation with him about everything that happened, not for lack of trying. It's just he doesn't particularly want to. I don't think so. And that that's, you know, that's okay. That's one of those things I'll I'll still bring up every now and then, you know, three months afterwards, six months afterwards, a year later. Because you don't wanna be one of those people who are or have a friend who's kinda suffering in silence, and it's from lack of effort on your part that you're you're not, a friend or loved one who's suffering a silence. And and just because you you haven't tried to reach out, you know, that's that's all you can do, reach out and and and see.
[00:58:07] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Do you think maybe you gotta put your dad in in a new scenario? Maybe you should go on a twenty hour drive with him.
[00:58:15] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. We'd we'd probably, that'd be unfortunate because I think we'd both go insane and and drive off the cliff and so so that my brother would have a lot to deal with. Yeah. And and, look, there there have been. Like, I I have I have tried that as well, so that's that's not not the real yeah. I suppose I could go even further. Yeah. You don't have to. I'm not trying to pry anything out of you, but that's just interesting. No. No. It's, it's it's worth doing as well. And, you know, perhaps they they won't even want to do a new situation with you because it could lead to something like that. You know?
So, yeah, you know, spending time with people is is is all you can do in those sorts of situations. And, And, you know, maybe he's not, as deeply affected. Maybe, he has gotten over it emotionally in his own way. You know, that's the other thing that I was saying in that book, on grief and grieving. Don't try and force things onto people, that you think they should be feeling. You know? If someone has a a husband pass away unexpectedly and they are kind of just, you know, normal, they're not deeply in shock. They're not crying every day. They're not experiencing what you think they should be showing in terms of grief or grieving.
That's that's more on you rather than on them. So that's that's another thing to to think about. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:59:57] Cole McCormick:
You know, luckily, you know, my mom has been pretty pretty, adamant about taking trips and, like, doing things with the family, going to, like, a new place. So every year, before there was, like, any diagnosis, my parents were always going they had this group of friends, and they would always drive down to Mexico. It's like a four hour drive, to this town called, Rocky Point. And really fun area, you know, pretty low key vibes, you know, just some nice hotels and resorts, and you just sort of when you live in Southern Arizona, you're probably going to Mexico for, like, a little mini vacay. And so for, like, four years, you know, it's pretty consistent. I'm going either once a year or twice a year.
And after he died, the the trip was always in October. And so after he died, it was always like, alright. Like, are we going to Mexico? Like, are we really gonna go to Mexico? Like, I guess, like, we sort of like, we should, you know, but, like, I don't really want to. Because, like, in Mexico, you know, that's, like, the party vibe. You know? We're we're still drinking. We're in the pool. We're at the beach. We're you know, there's jet skis on the beach for, like, $20 for, like, thirty minutes. You know? Like, you you know, you you you're able to have fun, but it's like, wow. Like, this is not the same. But still being in Mexico, being in that new environment, I was still able to just, like, go it it was like a certain phase. You know? Like, okay. Like, I've been on a trip without my dad.
You know? And that that was, like, a nice thing because it was familiar, and it was with other family friends. And, and my mom was also but before he died, that he went to so my my parents were a part of this. Their, their business would donate to this, like, community youth sports thing. I I'm not even sure how to describe it, but this this organization would put on, child sports like like soccer, baseball, all these, like, little kids sports, and they would get the money from local businesses. And they would always do an annual gala with all these businesses and all the donors, and it was always just like a fun thing, and there would always be this, this auction. And, the year that he died, I think this thing happened, like you know, it it was a while. I think it was it might have been, like, January or February before he died.
They had, like, themes or, like, every table had a theme. And my dad goes as chemo Ken, and my mom goes as as nurse Barbie. And so, like, he's sort of just, like, taking on that. But at the auction during the auction portion, my dad bid on a weekend cabin in Northern Arizona, which is a really nice area, really nice trees. You know, it snows up in Northern Arizona. And, he he he just thought it would be, like, a nice thing to do. He wasn't sure when we would do it, but he wanted to do it. And after he died, a part one conversation was, like, my mom said, you know, we still have that we still have that cabin up north. And, it was sort of, like I think that's where one aspect of gratitude comes from for me is, like like, wow. I'm so thankful my dad had, like, the foresight to give us some sort of peaceful environment to go to. Even though, like, he didn't plan on us going there after he dies, but, like like, just, like, thank you, dad, for, like, getting this cabin for us. Like because it was a real transaction. Like, thank you for getting this for us.
And and I and I remember that trip was, like, was really good for me as well because that was that was when the fires in Los Angeles were happening, and I'm like, I'm getting the fuck out of here right now. And and I'm in this, like, really nice peaceful environment. It's really chilly. It's really cold up there and, you know, just like you're going from, like, SoCal to Northern Arizona. You know? Just a it's a completely different environment. You know? Like, you you're in the mountains. You're at higher elevation. You're cold, and you're able to just be there. And it's and you get this whole environment. You have, like, the fireplace, and you got the chili thing, and you got you got, a movie on, and you got you know, it's a whole vibe.
And it's very healing. Like like, going to different putting yourself in a new environment is very healing when it comes to this grieving thing. That's what I've realized, and I've certainly realized that with, like, other jobs as well. I've done my best to to look for a better job, something that I felt was just more I'm not sure if fulfilling is the right word, but just, you know, just not stressing me out because the kitchen was stressful. You know? I just don't wanna I don't want my workplace to stress me out. I'm not sure how other people feel about that. Some people like to be stressed, I think. But I I I'd tell you everything in my path to avoid stress in my life. Yeah, man. But now I have a new job, which is really chill, like, one of the chillest jobs I've ever had.
And, I'm just happy I'm in that new environment. And I'm happy that I can, like, you know, just I can I can sort of move forward, and I can I can, I can feel comfortable where I'm at? Like, I'm I I I right now, I don't feel trapped. You know? I don't feel trapped. And I think somewhere within this past year, I did feel trapped.
[01:05:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. And and you think that was kind of, trapped in the sense of location or in your thinking, your mindset?
[01:05:18] Cole McCormick:
What what what in particular? I mean, it's a combination of a lot of things, like trapped in the sense that I no longer have, like, an out. Like, my dad was my out when it came to information about the car or when it came to, like, if I was low on money, you know? Because LA is just, like, super expensive, and my job wasn't providing a lot of a lot of money. And I'm doing my best to find a better job. And it's like, I still can't find a new job, but I need my dad to help me out for with certain bills. And it's like, I I don't have that anymore.
So, like, I sort of felt trapped beforehand, and I sort of felt trapped after he died because it's like, damn. Like, now I don't have that anymore. Now I need to figure out my own way. Like, I'm in my own little escape room right now, and I gotta, like like, I I I gotta figure out the puzzle. I also felt trapped. So, like, I I so finances comes to mind. The job comes to mind with being trapped, and I low key wanna get out of this apartment, you know, just because I've been here for, like, eight years. And, you know, I just want a new apartment. I would like to build myself up. You know, it's either because right now in my life, I'm either gonna move back to Arizona or I'm gonna make enough money to move to a better apartment.
That's sort of where I'm at. And I'm, like, I really wanna go to a new apartment. I really wanna make it. Like, I don't wanna I feel like if I moved up moved back to Arizona, it'd be justified with everything going on, but, like, I wouldn't feel good about myself. And, like, I wanna I wanna make it better for myself, and I wanna just double down on my effort. And my dad gave me a good work ethic, and, like, my dad didn't teach me to be a victim. My dad didn't teach me to to give up. My dad always believed in me. My dad told me to chase my dreams. My dad told me to just do your best.
And so, like, that's where I'm at right now. Like, I don't feel trapped because I know that I can I'm able to do my best. And so, like, that's like I'm in the middle of that right now. Sure. I'm a big believer in
[01:07:20] Kyrin Down:
a change of location, really having a a mindset shift as well. The probably one of the reasons I like traveling so much is is because it can allow you to do that. But even even things like moving apartment as well, I've I've been thinking about moving as well, and I I think that would be a a helpful switch into perhaps a a bit of a new stage in my life or or, certainly help me with some of the goals that I'm I'm looking to achieve. It would literally be five or ten minutes down the road, but it it would be enough to create a a bit of a, like, a mentality switch in my own head.
So I'm I'm yeah. I'm a I'm a pretty big believer in in doing that up, especially with your physical locations of, like, where you're staying and and and things like that.
[01:08:10] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Yeah, man. I would love to live by the beach. My goal is to live in Santa Monica. You know, rent out there is insane. Rent out there is, like, straight up double a little more than double what I'm paying now. So I got if I wanna do that, I gotta figure that out. You know? Like, that's not that's not gonna come easy. Because everyone who lives in Santa Monica, they have, like, tech jobs. They have, like, they have, like, silly influencer jobs. You know what I mean? And, so that's my goal. You know? Like, in my head, like, that's when I know, like, I've made it in my head. It's like, if I'm living in Santa Monica, I've gotten through it. Like, I've figured it out on some level. Gotta gotta gotta get that raw milk influencer money, man. I know, dude. And there's not a lot of money in raw milk.
A lot of money, dude. And I'm trying to do the influencer thing pisses me off too because it's like, I don't even know how to do it, but I know some people who are making really good money from it. Like, how do you do this? How do you make a meme that makes money?
[01:09:12] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah.
[01:09:14] Cole McCormick:
It's crazy.
[01:09:15] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. There's, I I feel there's a lot of opportunity out there at the same time as well. There's, obviously, the probably the the commonality is the being able to work hard, but Yeah. I'm I'm I'm very excited about the future in terms of just what what, Internet, what what things like, crypto, Bitcoin, all all that. I think it just opens up the the world for more more opportunities than than there was before. Like, the fact that influencer is a is a job that people can make money from being pretty or being funny or being interesting or Yeah.
Whatever, being entertaining. That's that's just wild. That's so crazy.
[01:10:00] Cole McCormick:
Yeah, man. I think I'm I think I might struggle with doing, like, the influence thing because I'm so, like I think I'm in I am cycling through, like, a depression right now. Like, I just I sometimes I don't feel like creating. Like, even when it comes to like, I pay for this AI clipping thing. I don't even have to do any fucking work, but I don't wanna post what the AI clips. Like, I could literally just push a button, but, like, I don't wanna do that for some reason. And so, like, I I gotta work through that. You know, that's, like, another hump when it comes to me posting more and talking to more people on the podcast and, you know, trying to figure out, you know, just, different streams of of income and just, like, doubling down on my creativity. That's really what I wanna do.
[01:10:43] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. I'd you know, I'd I'd I wouldn't suggest just from the the bit that I do know you. I wouldn't suggest that influence is the the way to go, but there's, you know, all sorts of opportunities in terms of, you know, here's a more like a perhaps even a vlog style. Like, this is what it's like trying to create create a new movie. This is, yeah, influencer as a job is is probably gonna go away pretty soon anyway. The the AI influencers are coming in Yeah. You're probably real life. The real life ones are gonna struggle. So it's it's funny about, like, you know, what's the what's the even more human, aspect that that you could show or or things like that that are that that are valuable to people as well. So, you know, I I enjoy listening into your like, certainly some of your podcasts, not all of them. Some episodes, I'm just like, ah, you know, that's like, I don't I don't care about politics, for example. So I'm I'm not gonna tune into the political ones, but there there's certainly, enough things that are out there that, and and even, you know, who knows? Maybe it's maybe it's like, you know, this is what it's like working in a shitty kitchen can be can be interesting and and valuable to people.
If if you're wanting to to go the route of, certainly, like, making an income or a job or a lifestyle from from from the from an audience because you don't have to do that either. You can you can do it from investing. You can do it from manual labor. You can do it from, you know, myriad of all the jobs that are out there. Yeah. I think my my larger point was, like, I don't feel trapped because of that opportunity. Like, I feel that, like, that opportunity is there, and I agree with you that crypto and Bitcoin
[01:12:30] Cole McCormick:
are, like, an opportunity to invest in. And, like, that's another way to to build yourself up and being online and posting online is an opportunity for myself. Like, I don't feel trapped because of lack of opportunity. You know? And I'm I just need to double down on that.
[01:12:48] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. 100%, man. I'm I'm gonna be here for the journey. Keeping this safe. Hell yeah, dude.
[01:12:54] Cole McCormick:
You know, we've been talking for over an hour, man. What else is on your mind with this grieving stuff, dude? Do you have to leave soon or what's that like for? No. No. Not particularly.
[01:13:04] Kyrin Down:
I'd I'd say that's most of the the things that come to mind. Yeah. Yeah. I miss mom. I miss mom, but it's not a daily sort of thing. Like I said, the the one year mark, I think, is is a good, like, reflection point of just going, oh, yeah. You know, let's change. And probably the last three months are more stead well, I was traveling, I guess, so that well, but I was traveling before that as well. Yeah. I'd say, like, the last three months have just been a lot more steady in terms of my temperament and how I think about her and and the the whole process of death even, as as compared to the nine months before that was much more much more up in the, up in the air. I guess I guess for me, I'm I'm at, what, one May, June, July, August. So, yeah, I'm I'm, like, one year and three months. So three months ahead of you in in that Mhmm. Time. But yeah.
How about you?
[01:14:08] Cole McCormick:
Did you bury your mom, or was she cremated?
[01:14:10] Kyrin Down:
She was cremated, and we, did a kind of ceremonial burying of her ashes in New Zealand, where she was from. And so she was she was, I guess, buried, next to her mom and dad in New Zealand. So that that was nice, but also, I I wouldn't say that was highly impactful for me. I think that's more of a ceremonial thing. And, yeah, I'm I'm I'm not one much for ceremonies, for example. Like, I didn't I didn't want to go to my own graduation when I graduated from university, but my my mom my my parents kinda, like, forced me to. So, yeah. I'm I'm not watching
[01:14:54] Cole McCormick:
not one much for ceremony, so that didn't make that big of an impact for me. Yeah. Yeah. My dad got cremated too. Luckily, he they had all that planned out. And it was weird, dude. Like, we went to the freaking funeral home that day, and it was, like, weird, dude. It was weird. Wow. Good. It was weird, dude.
[01:15:15] Kyrin Down:
I guess because mom was in a hospital, they have to do, like, an autopsy or something for for cause of death. Yeah. So for her, it was it was much more of, like, a longer process, and and my dad had organized all of that already. So Yeah. I didn't that's that's probably one thing to to we could chat about was I didn't see her dead body, which I'm rather grateful for. I I don't think I would handle that so well. It's kinda like not kinda like, you know, when I think of when I was a young teenager exploring the Internet, and then you find your way onto the gore sites and things like that. And you see one or two videos, and you're like, wow, that's so fucked up. I don't need. Yeah. I'm not I'm not interested in seeing more of this. You know?
[01:16:11] Cole McCormick:
Here's a ISIS heading video once you're in the grade. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yep.
[01:16:19] Kyrin Down:
And there's been one or two things in real life. So, when I was in Mexico with my friends Juan and Joey, we came across a crime scene where some people had been I believe it it was one or two people had been killed in a in a taxi shot in a Cancun. And I I don't even recall seeing the dead bodies. I I barely even recall that instance. But Juan and Joey were like, dude, we were standing right in front of it. We could, like, we got to because it had to happen, like, twenty minutes after we were in that area. Yeah. Right. Right. So when it comes to, I guess, chaos, mayhem, gore, those sort of things, I I don't I don't like seeing that in real life in front of me. So I I think seeing mom's dead body would have, I I I don't think that would have been a good thing to to see for myself. But, I mean, you were it sounds like you were you're right there. You you saw your dad. Ground zero, dude. Imagine yeah. Ground zero, dude. It was crazy.
[01:17:33] Cole McCormick:
To be to look to be looking at the bed, you know, like, to be looking at the bed, and that's where he's at. Like, it's just dramatically surreal. Dramatically surreal. And it was so early in the morning. So, like, you're still, like, in a in a haze, and, like, you know it's happening. And if so so, like, here's, like, the sequence of what happened. Right? So my mom, she wakes up in the middle of the night. Right? And she just, like, suddenly wakes up. Like, nothing woke her up. She just suddenly wakes up, and she realizes that my dad's not breathing. And she would always, like throughout the last week, she would, like, put her hand on his chest to make sure that that he's breathing. And then, you know, she realizes he's not breathing, but he's still warm. He's, like, as warm as warm can be. And, like, she sort of realizes, like, it literally like, something happened, like, just right then. Like, he's gone.
And so she has her small moment, and she closes his eyes. And she immediately comes to me, and I'm in the front room. I'm in the guest room, and, you know, she sort of just, like, wakes me up. You know, honey. Honey. You know? He's it it's time. Like like like like, dad's died. Papa's passed. And, I'm like, okay. And I sorta, like, held my mom's hand for a second. I was like, okay. Okay. Okay. Hang on. Hang on. I like I like I held her hand because it was like I knew that she needed someone to hold her hand, but I was also like, let me wake up for a second. Hang on. Okay. Okay. I was sorta just like, give me a second, mom. And then I go to my sit I I go to my youngest sister's room, and then I tell her I sort of whisper to her, and I wake her up like, hey. It's time to it's time.
And then and then my, as, like, my sister's coming out of her room, my grandma was, like, in the bathroom, and she's coming out of the bathroom. And, like like we're like, hey, grandma. Like, hey. It's happened. And she was like, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then I and then I go to my other sister, and she's sleeping with her little kid with her, he's five at the time or yeah. Yeah. Five. And and, the first thing that my sister says is like, what am I gonna tell Wyatt? And so I was just, like, I was, like, sitting right there with her and just, like, trying to, like, figure out, like, what is she supposed to tell her son in this moment? It's so early in the day. Like, are we supposed to wake him up right now? He's not gonna wake up. Is he even gonna realize what's going on right now? And so it's like, that's such a wild thing to that it's a crazy conversation to have with your sister. You know? And then we all just, like, had a moment together and, you know, like, we're crying, of course, but, like, like I said earlier, you know, it was, like because it was so early in the morning, there was a peace.
And, it's just, like, sort of just, like I I I don't wanna say you're going through the going through the motions, but, like, at least I was able to accept, like, this is how this moment should be. This is this moment. This is correct. This moment is correct. There's nothing out of line right now. And so, you know, we did our prayers, and we, I had a small moment to myself in the backyard. I sort of I did, like, a little voice audio recording to myself, just like, you know, just like for my own things to get my mind there or just to just to record where I was at right then.
And, and then we had a small moment with my nephew. You know, he's, like, still, like, like, he's asleep, but, you know, like, he he's sort of there. And then it was, like, a waiting game of, like, waiting for I forget who I forget who was supposed to come there. I think it was, like, the hospice. It was hospice who was, like, gonna, like, take his body. And, you know, and I have all the respect in the world for hospice people, dude. Those hospice folks are super brave. Like, they're really like, there are some different people in this world. And, like, hospice people, like, they're sort of, like their job is to, like, just their job is to give you instruction how to do things properly in the final days of a person's life. Like, that's a crazy responsibility to have, and they're supposed to just, like, calm you down somehow by giving you procedures.
But, like, the procedures aren't really helping at all. They're I mean, they're sort of helping, but, like, they're not really solving any problem. You know what I mean? Just weird thing. And so the hospice people came and they confirmed his death, and then, like, they took his body to the to the funeral home. And then, like, at, like, 10AM that day, we go to the funeral home, and we, like we're in a room of it's like, imagine, like, like, animal heads, you know, like deer heads and bear heads. Like, imagine, like, that kind of a room, but it's, like, caskets and options of urns. Like, you've got a lot of options of caskets and urns around you, and it's just, like, everything seems a little, suit like, super luxurious.
And there's, like, price tags on these things, and some of them are really respectful, and some of them are like, I would never put my dad in that. Like, you're sort of looking at how tacky some of these things are. And we're, like, picking out the color of the urn, and then we're, like, picking out the font. Like, that was the most fucked up thing of the whole thing. Like, I gotta pick the font of this thing. Like, that's so that's so stupid. Can that just be AI, please? Oh my god. Yeah, dude. Like, pick the worst font ever. But but but we picked a nice font, and, and this guy so here's the funny part of that moment.
The guy helping us. There was two people. There was a man and a woman. The man, super respectful, you know, like and and these people are very nice to you. They have to be. But this guy, he had, like, I'm not sure what they call it, like, facial tics, I guess. And so, like, he's doing, like, these, like, he's, like, he's making, like, bubbles with his cheeks, and he's, like, doing, like, weird things with his eyebrows. He's like, so, what kind of, have you given any thought to the to the font on the on the urn? And, like, it's just, like, this, like, insanely almost comical situation happening. You have to pick on while this guy is just, like, his neurotic self. I guess this is it it it could be like a Larry David show, you know, like like, yeah. I assume, like, that's what I almost felt like I was in. Everyone's super nice, but everyone is so weird.
It's a very strange experience, dude. I I forgot what the point of that was, but I think, yeah. Yeah. I I saw the dead body, and I and I saw him I saw them wheel him away. And, you know, it's, I have I I maybe this is morbid to say, but I have, like, two photographs of the moments. You know, I'm I'm not gonna, like, ponder on those photographs at all, but, like, I don't know. I just felt like I had to take them. Like, this is the final photo. You know? And it wasn't like a it wasn't like a close-up. You know? I try to make it I try to make it poetic or something. You know? Yeah.
Something something my dad would like. You know? A photo my father would like. But, I remember that morning. The good thing about that morning was, a part of the peacefulness was my mom and my grandma were were able to, like, talk, and I remember, like, laughter. You know? And it wasn't, like, fake laughter. It was, like, they were having, like, a real conversation, and someone said something funny. And they're sitting right there next to him, and we all know that. And that's just that was a very impactful and surreal thing, you know, to to to both see my grandma cry for her son, and then to also hear her laugh a cup a couple hours later.
That's a human experience. Like, that's like, I I don't have the words for that, but that is the human experience.
[01:25:44] Kyrin Down:
That's intense, man. Yeah. Wow.
[01:25:46] Cole McCormick:
That's crazy too. It's I wish, like, I wanna make a movie about that, but, like, you know, I don't know how compelling that would be. Like, it's just, like, it's just it's just my life.
[01:25:56] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. No. But that's that's the that's the interesting moments, man. That's the, the observations and and and small things like that.
[01:26:04] Cole McCormick:
Yeah, man. And then we had so, oh, I I okay. This is what I was gonna say. Here's the real story that I was gonna say. So we he got cremated, and, we had a celebration of life. I'm not sure if that's, like, a thing in Australia.
[01:26:17] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. We mom's mom's memorial service was more of a reflection and a lighter side rather than, like, the tone was not meant to be overly heavy.
[01:26:29] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Yeah. Good. And then that was the same thing with us. So we had the we had the celebration of life in our backyard, which is another weird thing to plan for a party. To plan for and we treated it like a party. Like, okay. This is where we're gonna have we're we're gonna have the tacos here. The chips are gonna be here. The salsa's gonna be there. We're gonna have the drinks right here. People are gonna come in in this direction. We're gonna have a porta potty that's gonna that's coming in at 3PM. Like, you're doing, like, logistics.
Yeah. And, a lot of people showed up, and I was really grateful to to see that, you know, to see those to see those people. Even though I didn't know all of them, because, like, some of them were, like, from my my dad's childhood, and I'm, like, sort of just getting to know these people from my from when my dad was a kid. And then there's, like, some other people who knew me as a baby, but, like, we hadn't seen each other in twenty eight years. So it's like yeah. They're like, cool. You're so big now. And I'm like, I've never seen you in my life. Yeah. Who are you? Yeah. But I'm thank thank you for being here. Thank you for knowing my dad. And, you know, just so many different types of people from so many different eras. You know, that's sort of how I how I saw it. There's so many eras in my dad's life that were present during the celebration.
Same same with my mom. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like you get to see these different eras. It's like, wow. You're all so old. And and I will be old too one day. You know? Like, that's gonna be me. Like, I'm the young guy. I I like, I'm the son in this scenario, but, like, one day I will be that friend. I will be that, you know, where who whoever I am, what whatever role I have, I will be in that older position. And so just to see to to experience this thing at this age, at this stage of my life, like, that's I don't know, man. It's, it's just very interesting. I I I wish I had poetic things to say about it. It's just it's interesting, and it's impactful, and it's it's so intense.
[01:28:29] Kyrin Down:
That's, that's life, isn't it? That's Yeah, man.
[01:28:33] Cole McCormick:
Super duper life. Life and death. Life and death. Yeah. Life and death. But I'm grateful I saw I saw his body because I think that's a part of closure. You know, they I think sometimes they say that, like, an open casket funeral can bring closure. That happened with a great grandmother of mine. I was never close with her, but I remember, like, that was being told to me as a little kid. Like, we're gonna do an open casket, you know. Like, I'm really hearing, like, people, like, above me saying, like, okay. Well, you know, they do say it brings closer. You know? So it's like, I I I have that vague memory of seeing my great grandmother's body as well. And so maybe I wasn't that afraid to see my dad's because I did have that moment when I was younger.
Should do. So but I would I've never been a fan of bearing. Like, burying a body. Like, I think I think bearing an urn is different. Like, I I could definitely handle bearing an urn. I would not wanna bury a body. That just sounds that just sounds sad.
[01:29:30] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. My my brother and I walked, he he wanted to play Pokemon Go. So we started walking,
[01:29:38] Cole McCormick:
around the burial site?
[01:29:40] Kyrin Down:
Well, there was a he he asked me, like, what's this big green patch over here? And I was like, well, that's the cemetery where we drive past almost every day. Wow. He never noticed it. And, so we we ended up just walking around it. And I did something similar when I was in Montreal. I went up to, like, the the the top of Montreal, the of the the mountain, I guess. And you caught you? Well, so I wasn't playing Pogo at, in Montreal. But, no. I I don't I don't think he even got any shinies, which is so very disappointing. Don't go to the don't go to the cemetery if you wanna if you wanna catch a good Pokemon.
But it was yeah. I I also agree. It's a it's just rather a strange place. You know? There's a lot of space. No one there. A lot of you know, many of these bodies were buried eighty years ago. Bodies people were buried that long ago, and it's just like, what we were asking each other, like, what happens to because, you know, there's there wasn't that much space there anymore. Does this land eventually just get taken over? Because, you know, you can't you can't just keep having this tremendous amount of space being taken up by people who don't even have a connection. You know? It's people's like great great grand fathers or grandmothers. They they don't know any of these people. Mhmm.
What what eventually happens with that? I I imagine that that land just gets reclaimed at some point, and they do they move the bodies on? Do they I have no idea. I think they might. You know, I know there's a place there's a cemetery in San Diego,
[01:31:23] Cole McCormick:
California where it's actually, like, some, like, old Western Cemetery. And, like, this it's like it's it's declared, like, some sort of memorial site. You know? It's like it's like the city has sanctioned it to, like, we're not gonna touch this because of the historical relevance of it or something like that.
[01:31:41] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. There's I mean, there's there's there's many of them. The in Buenos Aires, there's a place called, Recoleta, Recoleta, which is kind of, like, where they have a lot of the memorials and tombs, and there's a lot of famous people buried there and, you know, all this crazy crazy stuff where, you know, if you wanna plot a plot of, land there to be able to bury someone, it costs, like, $150
[01:32:07] Cole McCormick:
or something, you know, just absurd absurd amounts of money. Oh my god. Yeah, dude. I looked up during this whole thing, I looked up where Michael Jackson was buried, and he's buried at this cemetery that I used to work by. So, like, I used to work at Warner Brothers. Right? There's a cemetery of all these, like, famous Hollywood people right across the road of from Warner Brothers, and that's where Michael Jackson is. And, like, they like, it's there's the these temples. These people have temples for their caskets and their bodies.
[01:32:36] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yep. Real. Yeah. That's that's what's, that's what's in Recoleta. And the but but then you think about it. How many human beings have existed? I think it's like a 100,000,000,000 or something like that. How many people, have gravestones and they're in cemeteries? It's probably like millions, but I'd I'd certainly not getting up into the billions. And so all of those people, what what's what's happened to them? I imagine cremation wasn't that popular. You know, cremation's more of a modern thing, I I feel, with the ability to maybe, like, Viking funerals and stuff like that. So maybe.
But that I'm sure probably, like, a lot of places where you're you've stood on, you're standing on was maybe once a cemetery or had someone buried there. That that that seems that seems
[01:33:33] Cole McCormick:
logical to me. Well, isn't that what, like, poltergeist is about? Like, the house is built on a old cemetery, and that's why there's, like, a bunch of paranormal shit going on? Yeah. But what I'm thinking is just every house should it be poltergeist, you know? Yeah. You're right. No. You're right, dude. It's it's scary to think about because then, you know, there's also a a big military cemetery out in Santa Monica, and, you know, the I'm sure the government will hold on to that land forever. But it's like, how, like, how do you plan for that space? Like, how how many people are gonna die? Like, how do you plan for, like, a cemetery? It's very strange.
[01:34:11] Kyrin Down:
But when you say forever, you know, that's that's probably not correct because, what, governments don't last forever. You know? That's true. Probably the most successful ones have been, what, a couple of hundred years, maybe getting up close to I don't think there's any that have lasted for more than five hundred, 600. You'd be probably pulling a bit of a stretch to say,
[01:34:35] Cole McCormick:
a continuous type one. So Well, how long is it gone? Like, what about Rome? Like, did did they run cemeteries?
[01:34:42] Kyrin Down:
I'm sure they did, but they, you know, Rome wasn't that long. It was that that was a couple of hundred years. Rome lasted a couple hundred years? I think I don't think it was that long.
[01:34:53] Cole McCormick:
At least like its heyday. You know? No. I don't believe that at all. I I no way. No way.
[01:34:59] Kyrin Down:
The so I was I was reading just on the and and and this is what I mean by by governments as well. So you can have countries that have lasted forever, and it's like, this is the country. But even then, countries change and go. Prussia, for example. You know? Yeah. Things like that. But but, like, a kind of continuous government in that that's able to hold on to certain swaths of land and say, like, you know, this is ours. And talking about cemeteries now. Mhmm. Let let's say a millennium. Let's say they've lasted a a thousand years. Even then, you know, that those those things change, come and go.
I'm yeah. I I should look into the small it's actually interest starting to interest me. What what what happens to cemeteries when when they, get repurposed for other uses?
[01:35:53] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. I think they just let the bodies disintegrate. I feel like that's what happens. Or they just flood the flood it.
[01:35:59] Kyrin Down:
That I mean, I don't know how long caskets, are meant to last for underground, but I I don't feel that a they'll last for a thousand years. So
[01:36:10] Cole McCormick:
No. They definitely won't. No. No. I mean, Michael Jackson's casket was, like, brass and fucking, like, velvet or something. Like, maybe that lasts longer. But Yeah. Yeah. I need need a plutonium or a I don't know. Some some unreal solid diamond casket. Or gold. How long will gold last? Because his casket was, like, gold plated.
[01:36:29] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. But but that's the thing. You need the the gold plating could just scratch and wear off, but you need you need, like, full gold. You know? Right. Three three centimeters thick or something. That'd be a bit that would be an expensive casket.
[01:36:43] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. You need, like, what's the thing from the bible? You need, like, a what's the thing from Indiana Jones? The, the, you know, I'm talking about the first Indiana Jones, the, the 10 commandments, the thing that's the holding the 10 commandments. You need, like, a Yeah. I can't remember. I forget the name. Damn it. Well, no no wonder I'm not Christian anymore. But, like, I remember, like, that thing, the thing that holds the 10 commandments, that's, like, it's, like, thick and, like, there's, like, gold in it. There's a lot of gold on that. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You need something like that. That's funny, man. Well, hey, Kyron. Dude, thanks for doing this, man.
I think this is helpful. I mean, this has been helpful for me. You know, just, like, trying to talking to someone who's actually gone through it is so much so much more real than talking to someone who's just sympathetic about
[01:37:38] Kyrin Down:
it. I think we're on this the the same time period as well, you know. We went went through a very similar thing.
[01:37:43] Cole McCormick:
That's so surreal. Right? Like, what do you think about that? Like, last question. What do you think about us literally losing a parent three months apart? Like, that's gotta be crazy. Right? We're on the we're on different end of Earth. Like, how and we're somehow friends. We're somehow Yeah. That's somehow vibing. Let's and we're, like, we're connected through Bitcoin and podcasting two point o. Like, what is this?
[01:38:04] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. That's that's the most surreal part because, you know, people people die every day, and people lose their parents every day. But the the the kind of connection and then be able to, you know, me being there in in The US when when your dad passes is even even crazy. You know? Oh my god. Yeah. You were in The US, dude. Oh, that's so crazy. That was that was, you know, very, very kinda coincidental. Maybe it was meant to be. Then who knows? Maybe we're we've maybe that's part of the reason we connected. We felt similar vibes from each other and Yeah. You know, may and, who knows? Maybe it's just a coincidence.
[01:38:41] Cole McCormick:
There's no way it's a coincidence. I don't believe in that. There's no way there's no way we have life changing experiences, and we just and, like, there's no reason for that? Like, no. Come on. I don't believe that.
[01:38:53] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I'm I'm glad look. In terms of timing,
[01:39:00] Cole McCormick:
I'm I'm not glad it happened, but No. No. You have great timing on our part. Great timing. Like Yeah. Thanks, dad.
[01:39:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Bob. Appreciate that.
[01:39:12] Cole McCormick:
That's awesome, dude. Well, dude, yeah. Maybe we should just wrap this up. You do a podcast every weekend. Right? Like, what's, I guess we'll just do a plug for your podcast, and then we can get out of here, man. When do you do your podcast?
[01:39:25] Kyrin Down:
Yep. So 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Sunday with my friend Juan, who I've mentioned a couple times. It's it's similar similar kind of topics, to be honest. Like, we'll we'll dive into, like, philosophy. We'll dive into self development, dive into technology, things like that. So, yeah, those those very similar to to kinda how we just recorded now. So we we'll have have a bit of a discussion on a topic. There's a topic, but, not, not at set terms of, like, this is what we're gonna talk about exactly and things like that. And, yeah, I do I do the book reviews as well every, Wednesday, 11AM straight Eastern standard time. So if you ever feel like joining in live, jump in, mere models conversations, mere mortals book reviews.
[01:40:15] Cole McCormick:
Awesome. Well, Karen, thank you for being here. Thank you for being on America Plus. It's been a pleasure, and I think I firmly believe this has to help at least one person. So thank you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on call. Appreciate it.
Sitting down with Kyron down. Kyron, thank you for being here. What's up? You're the man. You're the man, Cole. Thank you. Dude, so pretty much, the reason we're here is because we're in the dead parent club, and we have a very specific experience that we've lived through. Your mom passed away, I believe, in May 2024, and my dad passed away in August 2024. And it's it's been a year since these things happened, and I just wanted to focus on just, like, the grieving process. I feel like there's not a lot of conversations and podcasts about grieving or or about, like, a person literally experiencing it. There might be some sort of doctor or some sort of psychologist talking about it and, you know, maybe this is just because I haven't looked out for it, but, like, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of content about grieving.
So I I I was just curious, like, what's been your, like, overall experience, dude, while we're starting out? Like, what's it been like one year after losing your mom? That's so, like, that sucks, dude. Yeah. Yeah. The
[00:01:10] Kyrin Down:
I I I'd I'd say something similar as well in that it's you'll you'll you can hear about it in kind of various forms of people would say, you know, someone who's lost their mom perhaps, like, five years ago or something like that, but it's not not the kind of full stages, especially like a yeah. Like, getting a a club together and and organizing, like, yeah. Let's let's share, our learnings after one year. Don't get much of that. Yeah. Look. Yeah. Obviously, tremendously, but painful, probably one of the most impactful things that you or I will go through for certainly of the next five, ten years, probably.
The the stinging of it has gone away a lot. So for example, I I would dream about, my mom really often, probably at least once a week for for probably the first nine months, I'd say. And it's actually only really recently that, I've I've noticed that's happening less often and has maybe close to, like, once a month now instead of once a week. So so I think just with time, your your memory of of them fades as as well a little bit, which is, a little bit sad as well because you, you know, memories just fade over time. I don't remember that much from when I was a a kid or and I I, you know, I could probably count, like, 50 memories perhaps if I if I really tallied them all up.
Teenage years, you know, maybe that's couple couple 100 instances and then more recent stuff, obviously. Like, I can recall everything I did yesterday. So as I think now, it's like, yeah. You know what? I'd mom as a kinda entity in my mind is is becoming a bit more crystallized into, I don't know, you know, all all of the moments that were, and it's it's less changing than perhaps it would be as I view my dad now, who is still alive, I still interact with on a week by week basis. And and he's much more like fluid in forming. Like, there can still be differences in our relationship, whereas the relationship I have with my mom is now, like, set in stone. That's that's everything that it had a as it was. So, those are a couple of, like, the instances.
In terms of grieving, yeah, I I guess that just depends on on how it occurred. My mom's battle with Alzheimer's was was just a long, slow process over you know, she was diagnosed in late twenty sixteen. So what was that? You know, eight eight ish years. And so it was very noticeable, the decline, and especially the the last nine months, you know, you're getting stuff being said, like, hey. We'd you know, it's it's unlikely she was gonna be around more than a year from from now. And in fact, it will be less much more likely that it'll be less than that. And that was that was correct. You know, it was it was probably, like, six months after after hearing that, if if that. So those sorts of things, I I guess, were gave me a lot of preparation for what was to come. So, it didn't hit me in terms of just, you know, life shattering.
The two two days after, three days after her passing was was kinda just like, okay. Well, it's it's it's life is normal, I guess. Just now mom isn't here now. So, yeah, those were a couple of things that I noticed for sure. For sure. How how about you for for yourself?
[00:04:55] Cole McCormick:
I mean, it's been, like, wild. So I've had a similar experience with the dreams. I had some pretty intense dreams, with my dad. I shared this one story on the podcast of it was, I think it was in, like, so, like, a month or so, maybe six weeks after the death. And I had this insane dream where I'm in my living room at my childhood home, and I see my dad sitting on the couch. And he, like I I can, like, clearly see him, and he looks like how he did when he was younger and, like, when I was a young kid. Mhmm. And, I, I sat down next to him, and he like, we're just looking at each other. And I said, I just wanna feel you touch my back.
And then, like, I sort of laid down in front of him on the couch on my stomach, and then I physically felt his hand touch my back. And then I was having, like, spasms, like, back spasms in the dream, and I was feeling electricity, like, actually feeling shock within my back muscles. And I was, like, dry heaving in the dream. And then I wake up, and I'm, like, dry heaving in in real life, and my back is spasming in real life. And it took, like, a good five, ten minutes for my body to calm down. I'm like, what is, like, what is going on? What the fuck?
[00:06:17] Kyrin Down:
And, That's an intense way to wake up.
[00:06:20] Cole McCormick:
It was and, you know, and me being a spiritual person, you know, I sorta take that as, like, as a spiritual confirmation of, like, there was some real communication there because, like, I've never heard of that from anyone. Like, that's some like, it's spooky. It it it if if it's not spiritual, it's certainly spooky. Mhmm. And it's, either way you wanna go with it. It was super intense. You know? And, I I remember telling that story to my mom, and I'm, like, crying to her. I'm like, it's just like I didn't think I would experience that. You know? Because, like, you might have, like, a normal night. You know? Just go to bed normal, and then you don't know what you're gonna dream.
And it's, and then that happens. Yeah.
[00:07:01] Kyrin Down:
How does he appear to you in in in your dreams? Because mom, for example, sometimes with with her, Alzheimer's, it changed her personality a lot. And, physically, she she decayed a bit, but she was still quite strong. Like, she was still, like, a strong lady. Like, if she gripped your arm, like, it would it would hurt. And, for example, with her, she was always very calm, measured in, prior prior to the Alzheimer's. And then, towards the end, especially the last nine months, she there was, like, a real personality switch within her. And, she became very violent, angry, in a lot of pain, suffering, and things like that. And sometimes in my dreams, probably most of the time, it was in her final states, which was, quite distressing. You know? It was distressing at the time. In my dreams, it was still distressing.
But a couple of times, it would be her, as as she once was, like, as a younger, you know, probably probably around my age now, like, you know, early thirties is how I would remember her. And that that was quite those were nice. Those were kinda cathartic in a way. So those I had some real variations of of the ways she would appear to me in my dreams as well.
[00:08:32] Cole McCormick:
Would she appear to you like older? Because, like, my dad has always been, like, his younger self. He was never, like, in his forties. He was never sick in my dream. He was always, like, how I remember him at Disney. You know? Yeah. No. No. Mom mom was mostly
[00:08:46] Kyrin Down:
how she was right towards the end. Yeah. So Interesting. Just just before she passed, which Interesting. Which I guess I think for me is just more kinda like I was saying. I that's my more recent memories of her. That's how I remember her more. What I'm hoping is over time, actually, that I'll remember her probably more as like she was when I was a kid because I have you know, I've I've got photos of her over the last couple of years as well, but, I'm I'm certainly more interested and more wanting to watch, you know, old videos and old photos of her, as compared to, like, the the more recent stuff, which is, you know, much more, harder. It's certainly harder to to do that. So I'm I'm wondering if that will kinda change over time as well for myself.
[00:09:42] Cole McCormick:
I hope it does, dude. I mean, I'd never I mean, I think there's just so much trauma when it comes to, like, the end of the life. You know? Some people might you know, that might be, like, a really sticking memory. But for me, like, my family has photos, a few weeks before he died. There's, like it was his birthday in July, and then he passed in August. Right? And so we got the whole family together, and we have, like, these last family photos, during sunset in our backyard. And, you know, like, he was, like, able to walk and talk, you know, and he was able to, like, be normal somewhat, but that was definitely, like, towards the end. And he was, like, definitely withering, and I have like, I don't wanna remember him like that. Like, that just seems like, they're beautiful pictures, but it's just, like, such a sad image, compared to, you know, like, the same year, six months prior on my birthday. You know, he looks completely normal on my birthday, and so I'd rather I'm just happy that I can have that image of him looking somewhat normal,
[00:10:42] Kyrin Down:
rather than towards the end because, like, the end just sucked. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that's that's fine to do as well. You know, some some people might arguing like, oh, yeah. You're leaning away. You you know, you're obviously trying to hide away from perhaps this this version of him and that that speaks more to you than perhaps, you know, the reality of it. You're trying to deny reality or something like this. I kind of view something like that, and not that anyone said that, but, you know, that's that's kind of a thing that is worth considering maybe. But I I view that more as more, kind of if if we were to look at the dreams, for example, if you go back to to Freud, he he would analyze your dreams and, you know, you he'll there was always don't think there was ever a time where he'd look at a dream and so and say someone and be just like, yeah. That's just a dream. Yeah. You know? Maybe you were just hungry. It's always like, no. You wanted to have sex with your mom, and you wanted to fight with your dad because of that and, like, eat a pool complex or, like, you're all messed up and things like this.
And I'm I'm more of the, opinion that things like that is just you know what? Sometimes you know, I I I remember this dream I had as a kid where I was kinda do you know the Dover Cliffs? The, there there are these cliffs. I think they're in the in The UK. And, just really, really steep cliffs. And I remember it was it was the like, a photo that I'd seen of them. And I was kinda closer to the bottom or wherever the photo was taken from. There was this cow at the top, and the cow fell off the cliff. And I and I shot it with a rocket launcher, and the cow exploded. And I I just remember thinking like, man, what what can you take away from that dream?
Like, how how how deep can you really analyze that? Or or can you just go like, wow. That's a really fucking weird dream and just leave it at that? Yeah. Yeah. Some dreams are random. I definitely believe that as well. Some like, some dreams mean something. Some dreams do not. You know, some dreams are just your subconscious swirling for no reason. Yeah. Yeah. I and I'm I'm the same. There's there's certainly things where it can perhaps expose to yourself. You go, oh, you know, this is something I am thinking about, or this is a relationship, issue or, perhaps something that's in the back of your mind that you've never voiced particularly. Sure. I I'm totally on board with that.
So for myself, when I when I look at some of the behaviors or things that I did, I I can go, oh, okay. That was obviously a direct impact of of mom passing. The week after, she passed was probably the most dangerous time of my life for myself because I remember I was driving what no. I don't I don't wanna say erratically, but I certainly cared less. And so, you know, and that that reflected in some of my other behaviors as well, where I was just it was semi self destructive. You know, I just stopped caring about a bunch of things. Thankfully, that only lasted a week. And, you know, I'm less at risk of dying in a car crash because of that.
And then and then other things is just, yeah, the more longer time scale stuff, wanting to leave Australia and go to Brazil for for a few months. I actually was in Brazil when,
[00:14:12] Cole McCormick:
I got the news. That's right. You were traveling, dude. You had to fly across the freaking world to, like, experience that. That's so crazy. Yeah. That was that was intense because,
[00:14:21] Kyrin Down:
you know, I'd I was in a a bit of a rut in terms of just feeling like I've been in Australia the last, what, four years. I really enjoy traveling. Ever since COVID, I'd I'd kinda been in Australia just hanging around really. I felt probably this is due to COVID as well. I just I felt like many many years were just kind of passing by. 2021 and 2022, for example, those years are just a blur. They, you know, lockdowns and then, you know, it's it's it's so strange how we're all just now now, like, past it all. It's like it never happened. Yeah. It's all normal now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, so I felt like I I needed to get out of Australia, do do something a little bit different, just kinda change up my pattern routine whilst also knowing, you know, the doc doctors had said, you know, your mom might last a year. She might last a couple months. Like, it was very up in the air.
And, I actually consulted my my brother and dad about this because I was saying, like, you know, what do you guys think? I obviously want to be here. I'd love to help. But by that stage, mom was in the hospital, didn't recognize me. Only one she kind of recognized was was my dad. And even then, like like she was already gone in many ways. That was that was her body was still physically there, but her mind was not. And I remember, you know, asking them, like, what do you guys think? Like, I I feel like I'm just torturing myself being here with her. I'd, you know, I want to be here and and, I guess, like, help be there for her, but there's nothing I'm doing. Like, nothing it's not making a difference. It's just worsening my life.
And, you know, then I also already had kind of some stuff booked in. Like, I'd already booked the flights. I'd already done these other things. And so, yeah, I I with with, you know, upon consulting them and doctors and stuff, it was just like, alright. You know, I'll travel. And if I have to come back, I'll I'll come back. And it ended up being one month. So, you know, it was it was kinda worth it in a sense. And I got lucky in that I was able to come back and, you know, spend one last time with her before she passed away the the night that I returned.
[00:16:50] Cole McCormick:
So I kind of was crazy. And what was that like? Like like, can you like, retrospectively, can you believe, like, you had one more night? Like, that's so that's wild. Yeah. Yeah. I
[00:17:01] Kyrin Down:
I'm probably I'm definitely not as much spiritual as you are, but I I certainly, have have portions of me who who who likes to dive into that that likes to dive into it. And Mhmm. Yeah. Coming back by this stage, she was just, on on kind of fluids and stuff, just in a bed, you know, basically in a coma, I guess you'd call it call it. And, I got to, you know, straight from the airport, I went to see her. So I was already you know, that was must have been, like, a thirty something hour flight. And so I was I was pretty wrecked. And, just but, you know, still I was still lucid enough. And, yeah, just just seeing at her, it was it was nice to see her calm even though she was, you know, essentially just very emaciated, and the prognosis was, you know, she's now got a couple of days left.
And, I remember at one point, I was, just alone with her for a couple of minutes and, you know, just just like holding her hand, being next to her, and and was just talking to her. And I kinda saw, like, her eyelids flutter. And this is one of those times where it's like, you know, did she was that just fluttering eyelids? Was that her actually hearing my voice? Was there something deep inside of her that recognized that I was now home and, you know, perhaps she could pass away now. All all of those sorts of things. I don't know. I don't know about that sort of stuff. But, yeah, it was very intense and then very sad, you know, Probably, like, one of the deepest sleeps of my life, that night because I was so wrecked and then waking up to a message from dad saying, you know, she'd passed away at midnight. So, intense, intense men. Yeah. And, yeah, just going through all the normal things of of kind of crying a lot those those next couple of days.
Yeah. That's crazy, dude. It sounded kind of just as intense as as your experience. So I remember hearing hearing your detail on that.
[00:19:24] Cole McCormick:
Oh my god. Yeah, dude. It's like, you know, it was, like, one week of hospice. Right? So my dad dies of cancer, right, or dies, you know, technically, of liver disease, liver failure, because the cancer was in his liver. And it's like, you're just seeing this guy turn yellow and, like, smaller and, like, shrinking. Parts of his body are shrinking, and parts of his body are getting inflamed and stuff like that. It's like, like, what is going on here? And has, it's not that he wasn't, forgetting, but he was, like, uncommunicative. You know? So it's like just like that whole seeing that progression happen within that one week, it's just like, woah. Like, that was, like, that was one that was one thing that, like, really hit me, I remember. It's just like there was one day where so he, he needed, like, help walking to the bathroom. Right? And when I first got home, and the whole thing happened at home, which is, I think, is another, like, crazy experience. I'm not sure if any other people I'm not sure how many people have that experience. So that's my childhood home, and, like, they bought that twenty years ago.
And it's like, I don't know how many people have that specific experience, but when I first get there, he needed help walking to the bathroom. And at first, it was just, like, just, like, balancing because, like, his could because his his legs were swollen. And then, there was, like, a little decline the next day. And then whenever he would do it, he would, like, have his hands on my shoulders, and he would, like, always, like, squeeze my shoulders. Whether it's either because of, like, he's just, like, telling me that he loves me through that touch or, like, he actually, like, needs that help balancing, whatever. Most likely both.
One day like, one morning, I'm helping him to the bathroom, and, like, his grip was just, like, not there. Like, just not there at all. Like, barely a hand on my shoulder. And his head was just, like, droopier. And I was like, what the fuck is this? Like, it's like you don't know what death is gonna look like until you're right there, man. And so and it's so unique for everyone else. And, you know, luckily, you know, I think the the silver lining in both of our stories is that there was, like, a peaceful in the night passing.
You know, that's, like, probably one of the best things that could happen. You know, randomly, I saw this movie, you know, they just put out this movie twenty eight years later. It's that, like, sequel to that zombie movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, dude, like, there's this line. The actor, the same actor who plays Voldemort in the Harry Potter movies, he's in the movie. Right? And he plays, like, he plays his doctor, and he's talking to this kid, and this kid's mom has cancer. And this doctor, dude, he has this, like, insane line of, like, how, like, how there's different types of deaths. And, like, the best deaths are the peaceful ones. And I'm crying my eyes out at this zombie movie.
Like, it's crazy, dude. And but, like, that line really hit me in that film because it's like, wow. Like like, even though, like, there's, like, such pain, I'm able to, like, still, like, be grateful that, like, there wasn't, like, that much suffering, you know? And at least, like, he did die in his sleep, and, like, that's, like, how everyone would wanna go. And it's, like, when I, when I think about that last night, I just said goodnight to him like normal. And he sort of, like, did, like, a little, like, wave and, like, you know, little mumble, like, goodnight. Love you. And, you know, like, that was, like, ironically as well, that was, like, when, like, my grandparents had came came over, and they had spoke to him. And my aunt came over, and they weren't that present during the week of hospice, but they were there that night. And then, like, after that night when they all show up is when he dies. It's just like there's, like, these serendipity things that happen.
And, just like the night was sad, but it was also so normal. And, like, I also had, like, a a a peaceful night sleep somewhat because my mom then wakes me up at, like, four in the morning. And then it's like, you know, my mom was the one who found out who, like, you know, she was laying right next to him. And so just, like, that whole morning was just, like it was surreal. And, you know, just because of the way I am, because because my family grew up Christian, I see that night as, like, holy in some sense. You know? It was like, you know, you get this early morning. You know? There's always this, like, lore of early morning. When if you, like, wanna be successful, you wake up early in the morning. If you wanna, connect with God, you wake up early in the morning. It's just like, you know, when you have that death early in the morning, like, that's just that that really hit me in a really interesting way.
And just, like, seeing the sunrise on that type of day was really crazy.
[00:24:05] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. I bet. The do do you feel the have you seen many differences between the way you've handled handled it, reacted to to the passing compared to to family members?
[00:24:22] Cole McCormick:
I would say I've had the most spiritual experience. Even though my whole family is Christian, I do not identify as a Christian, but my experience post death has been more spiritual. For some reason and maybe this is my ego talking, but, like, for some reason, I feel like I am more like, I have a better grasp on the spiritual, side of this whole situation than everyone in my family. I'm not too sure how my sisters are dealing with it. Like, my sisters are okay, but, like, I haven't really had, like, deep spiritual conversations with them. It's hard to talk to my grandparents who've been Christians for decades and decades.
Like, I'm not connecting with them spiritually, and, you know, and my mom just going through what she did, like, it's like it it's not there. Like, it's like if I say something spiritual, like, it doesn't really click or, like, it's not really, like, getting to them somehow. And for some reason, I just have this it feels like I have, like, some knowing, you know, and just, like, this, like, this piece about the spiritual side of things and, trying to trying to, just look on the more grateful side of things and try to look on the more, like, what the value of the life is more important than the loss of the life.
That's sort of, like, where my spirituality goes from that. Mhmm. But, like, along with that, though, that that that first month, you know, I'm you know, I was sort of in the same boat as you were. I'm just like I was being pretty self destructive. Wasn't really working out. I tried to work out. I don't remember working out that first month. I, drinking a lot, smoking a lot of weed. I ended up, I stopped smoking weed since then. So, like, I I haven't smoked weed since, this past October, so almost a year ago. But I was smoking a lot of weed and drinking a lot of drinks. And, my my family's house doesn't help me at all because, like, my parents were always, like like, the party people. You know? Like, they would always if there was any party to be had, it was probably at our house.
And so and they made a whole we call it, like, the beverage station. You know? We got the coffee. We got the mini fridge. We got a whole, like, pretty it's a huge line of alcohol and liquor and stuff like that. And so all of us, the four of us or five of us, my my dad's mom was there with us. So we were just making mixed drinks, you know, having a little routine with that, and some of us would drink in the morning. Some most of us were drinking in the morning.
[00:26:57] Kyrin Down:
The usual routine That's usually a bad sign.
[00:27:01] Cole McCormick:
Dude, you have no idea, Kai. Like, we're smoking. So, like, my sisters and I, we would go to the dispensary. We get our we get, like, the normal flower weed, and then we also get our vapes. And so we're vaping in the morning. We're smoking out of a bong in the morning, then we're then we're having some breakfast, and then we're, making a little cocktail. We're, like, getting a little we're putting a little whiskey in the coffee. Like, it wasn't good. And, I ended up, meeting up with an old friend from from school. I'd known this guy since I was, like, five years old, towards the August.
And him and I went to the bar, and it was like, a, he was like, he wanted to talk to me and hang out with me because of my dad, but also we hadn't seen each other in years, and so it was like a catch up. And we're at the bar. We're having a good time. We're having a fucking awesome time at the bar. And I'm drinking, like I had, like, four Moscow mules. That's, like, my go to drink. You know? A little bit of ginger beer, a little bit of vodka. Yeah, dude. A little bit of lime. So, like, I have, like, four of those, and he pays for them. And then we're going to another bar, and, like, I end up just like, I shouldn't have driven home, but I did. You know?
And, I remember that next morning, I'm, like, super hungover. And before all of this, right, I was, like, meditating. I've been practicing meditating and just, like, mainly just, like, calming my, like, calming my breath and trying to conjure up positive emotions and trying to feel that in my heart. It's a very specific meditation. And, I just had, like, the instinct to do it even though I was hungover. And I had this insane moment that I did not anticipate and I was not trying to achieve, but I was in my room and just, like, sitting on my bed, and the lights were off. And all of a sudden, I was getting, like it was, like it it wasn't a voice. I was, like, seeing, like, words flicker, like, almost like a ro like an old fashioned rolodex. It was like a rolodex of words, and the words were like a message. Just like just, like, flipping through like that.
And the message that I was, like, getting was you need to consume less. And, pretty much and, like, everything that I was, like, consuming, you know, it was, like, being shown to me. And and I took, like, a moment. I was like, am I thinking this? Am I feeling guilty for drinking? Like and I literally, like it was this weird thing where in my mind, I took a step back, and I was like, am I thinking these thoughts? And a certain thing within me said, like, no. You're not thinking these thoughts. These are coming from somewhere else. And this, like, you know, just you need to you need to drink less. You need to smoke less. You need to look at less porn.
Just over and over and over and over and over again, I'm like, wow. This is real. That's a real message right there. And so, after that moment, I sort of just, like I did my best to slow down, and I'm like, okay. Now I need to, like, phase myself out of this. And I've and luckily, I've been able to do that. I'm still battling some bosses here and there, but, you know, the good thing is that I'm aware. You know?
[00:30:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. The, that that's that seems normal to to go through something like that, especially right afterwards. There's, I actually probably the thing that I've found is the most sticky in terms of something I I I need to work on or pay more attention to is is finally enough anger. I'm not normally an angry dude. It's it's not a an emotion I've ever really felt connected with, even if people, like, cut me off in traffic or things like that. Anger is not my go to. It's not my normal reaction. But I have certainly felt a lot of resentment.
Yeah. I'd call it anger at times, not towards people or anything. Almost if anything, it'd be towards the world a little bit just as a as a as a concept towards the universe. Like, how, you know, why why did mom suffer like this? How dare you make her suffer like this? That that sort of feeling. The I went for a workout the the next day after after mom passed. And I was outdoor. It was like, beautiful, beautiful, like, winter day here in in Brisbane. So just think, like, 20 degrees Celsius temperature, like, sun is on you. No wind. It's really nice. And, I was just out out by the river.
And, you know, I'm I'm just doing it just for the sake of doing it. Not not because I particularly really wanna be there, although I do enjoy workouts just in general. So maybe there was, you know, a little bit of, like, you get the endorphin boost and whatnot. And there was these kind of punk teenagers who were just, you know, just like shitheads, just real shitheads who I had seen around that area before. And they so they kind of knew me and came up to me and just started being like dickheads, like, you know, getting the phone out in your face. And so I'm just doing handstands there. And they're like, oh, you're on TikTok TikTok now. Do you wanna say it to the other people? Even though obviously I wasn't on TikTok. That was just just just, you know, just teenagers being teenagers, man, and and shitty teenagers.
No. Don't don't wanna throw them all under the bus. And that Well, we can throw them. We can throw them and run them over. Uh-oh. Yeah. Well, dude, that was that was the closest I've ever come to probably physically assaulting someone because those those guys were just so bad. And it got to the, you know, I was trying to it's one of those ones where you probably need to be aggressive right at the start to to establish dominance of, like, hey. Don't fuck with me. Whereas I was more in of a, like, just leave me alone type of mood, which, of course, they they think like, oh, easy prey or something. So now we can, like, really fuck with this guy.
So I've got to the point where I I've, like, told one of them, like, don't you need to leave now. I don't think I threatened him with violence, but it was certainly the undertone of, like, you need to leave now. And thankfully, that got through to them and they and they left, helped being physically bigger than them. So they were still, like, on the 13 to 14 year old side of things. Yeah. But, yeah, that that anger is is kind of that's probably one of the things that's stayed with me a little bit. It pops up every now and then, so it's not like an all consuming thing that I feel all the time or anything like that. But it certainly hung around much longer than I would have perhaps expected.
And that's, I guess, you know, probably delving into the spiritual side of things because, I I haven't really found a, like, gratitude in mom's passing. I've I've view the the whole event as has been purely, I guess, like a negative thing. So, yeah, that's that's one where it's I go, yeah. Maybe I probably need to to investigate that a little bit more or try and figure out what's what's kind of beneath that.
[00:34:40] Cole McCormick:
Right. Well, it's funny you bring up anger because that's, like, a part of the grieving stages. Right? Mhmm. And, so so I I have them up right here. There's there's denial, there's anger, there's bargaining, there's depression, and then there's acceptance. Yeah. And so, I mean, from speaking to myself, I would say, like, I would replace the word denial for shock. Yep. Like, I knew he was dead. I'm not denying that he that he's dead the morning of, but it was definitely shocking that first month. And I was certainly angry for, like, a few months.
For for my own journey, I could sort of see, like, a linear path. And then as, like, as we're in these current summer months of 2025, I've been sort of going back and forth, sort of like a hopscotch hopscotching around these different stages, but the large majority of this past year has been somewhat linear. And maybe the for some reason, a part of me, like, I sort of when I'm reading this, I sort of equate acceptance with gratitude. So maybe somewhere, like, I've been able to accept it sooner while I'm also feeling angry, while I'm also trying to bargain with things. And maybe, like, you know, it it sounds like anger is like that similar thing where, like, you might feel bargaining or maybe there's a day when you feel acceptance, but then you're still angry.
You know? So that's very interesting.
[00:36:07] Kyrin Down:
I read the book where that came from. I think it's called On Grief Engraving Elizabeth
[00:36:13] Cole McCormick:
Kubler Ross, maybe, and and someone else. Is it bullshit? Is it a lie? Was she a Nazi?
[00:36:19] Kyrin Down:
I don't think it was that bad. No. It it's look. It it's a qualitative description. It's it's not something quantitative, so you can't go, alright. This person is going through x amount units of of denial. Now they're onto x amount units of anger or something like that. The whole the whole thing was it was meant to be viewed more as a framework, I think. Yeah. More as yeah. It was kind of like a a a therapy slash understanding. It's kinda it's more on the longer line. It's a more honestly, it's more of a spiritual book than it is a, perhaps a medical type book.
Interesting. It's more descriptive in terms of, hey. These are some of the things that you might experience, and and they themselves say, like, yeah. These are commonalities that we've noticed. I believe she was a, what was she in particular? Certainly something to do with, like, hospice care, and the other author, I think, had perhaps a bit of a, Zen type background or something like that, if I recall correctly. And the they were just saying, like, look. Here's some commonalities we've noticed. Here's five the five stages. They're not necessarily linear, although this is the common pattern that they go through.
You might spend one stay it'd be in one stage much longer. It was also a book to kind of help people who are perhaps friends of someone who had someone passed to understand where they might be, what they might be experiencing. So it's certainly certainly more just a, like, a little tool in the tool chest to help use for either yourself or for other people. And, yeah, it's it's I think it's decent enough. Like, I'd I'd say there was periods where I I would say, yeah. You know what? I was kind of in the bargaining stage. And and for me, for example, a lot of this happened before she actually passed away. So Mhmm. Because it was so obvious it was coming in so many years in advance. I remember thinking things along the lines of like, oh, yeah. If there was a big red button that I could press that would, you know, kill off all of humanity or something like that, but mom would be alive, be not alive again. She was still alive, but, you know, be be healthy.
I'd press the button. You know, that that's kind of like bargaining. Depression yeah. That that's probably why I wanted to go to Brazil. You know? There was just such a feeling of malaise of that I was going nowhere, doing nothing, and not enjoying myself. You know, that's that's probably along those lines. Acceptance. You know? Here we are both talking about it. We're not bursting out into tears. We're not trying to avoid what happened. So I'd I'd say we're probably both along that sort of lines in terms of where we're at, but it's a it was it was an okay book to read, and I think the those five stages can be useful in a in a sense. But there's probably other like you said, you you'd maybe replace shock for denial and gratitude for acceptance. Those those are those those seem reasonable to me to say, yeah. But you you you can experience other things as well.
Perhaps even Yeah, man. Perhaps even, you know, hatred instead of anger if it was your your loved one passed from being hit by a drunk driver or from a, you know, accidental manslaughter or some sort of death.
[00:39:52] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Anger is interesting because, like, I remember feeling angry, but I wasn't like I was I wasn't angry at anyone. It was more like an aggression. I just felt, like, aggressive. I just wanted to, like, get shit done. Like, I just I I wanted to like, I was ready to fight anyone. If someone wanted to fight me, like, if one of my so I was working at a restaurant at the time as a prep cook, and, like, I was in this mood of, like, if anyone's if any if any of my bosses tell me I'm not doing a good job, like, I swear to god, I'm gonna I'm gonna punch him. I'm I'm gonna walk out, and just like, you're gonna have to sue me. You're gonna, like, fuck you. Like, you're gonna I don't care. And I would do this, like, I would do this thing in, like, in the morning, like, I just wanna go. I just wanna get my shit done today, dude. Yeah. I'll try to I'll try to hype myself up to have, like, a good day at work, but then I'm, like, imagining just, like, punching somebody. Yeah.
It's very it's very yin yang thing in my head, dark and light at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I've felt similar things. It's funny how you can feel that. Right? Because it's like you're not because I was always raised to not be that, to not be the aggressive guy, to not, you know, be like, because I have two younger sisters. So it was all like, cool. Be gentle with your with your sisters. Be gentle with your sisters. And it was just it's an emotion that I wasn't used to, or, like, it's an emotion that maybe I would have only had experienced in private when, like, I think about something that I think is, like, injustice or something and not something that literally affects my entire life. You know? But now I'm feeling this aggressive feeling because my life has changed in such a dramatic way, and I don't care who's in front of me. Like, just like, I'm gonna I'm gonna bulldoze you right now.
[00:41:32] Kyrin Down:
You know, the, the things that I was just reflecting upon then was I've I've had, like, all of these moments. Obviously, you spend most of your time alone and in your own head sort of deal. And if if in just terms about, like, thinking about things, you spend more time thinking than you actually do speaking. But some some of the, like, the probably most helpful moments have actually just been speaking with with some friends. So, there was and and it's kind of hard to get these moments. Maybe it was like you with your friend where you have to create a moment that's a bit more unique or certainly not in the the normal day to day life sort of things.
You know, I I see one every every weekend for the the podcast is my cohost on the on the mere models. And, you know, talking about mom is just not gonna be something that regularly comes up because, you know, we're talking about other things. We're talking about more like logistics or whatever. Mhmm. Whatever's going on else in our lives. But there's moments you can have where you're in a unique situation. Two that come to mind for me were, when I was in Brazil, I made basically, some mom passed. I was here a month for the until the funeral and then or memorial service, I should say. And then I went back to Brazil, and then I had this, jeez. How long was the car trip? It was about, like, I think it was probably up close to fifteen hours driving over two days, with my friend Lucas.
And so, you know, there's a lot of time to talk about things with someone over over a fifteen hour car trip. And, talking, you know, the first half of it, the first, to the our destination, we didn't talk that much. But on the way back, yeah, that was that was a bit where I was talking about my mom, and then, you know, he opened up a little bit about how he was experiencing similar things when his grandfather died. Another one recent more recently was, when I was in Athens with, another good friend of mine, Joey. And we're on a rooftop, and we're looking at the Parthenon of the Acropolis. And it was it's right there in front of us. It was stunningly how big it is and how close.
And it was this real feeling of just like, holy shit. I'm in I'm like, I'm in ancient Greece at the right I'm in Greece, but when that's all you can see, the Parthenon, you're like, combination Greece. And we're we're just That's cool. We're just on the rooftop. You know? We're having maybe one one one or two drinks, got some music playing. And it just hit me that, oh, man. This is the exact sort of place I would have loved to have traveled with my mom. Neither my brother nor my dad were were big kind of travelers. I love traveling.
And this was something that if she had been alive and well, this is a 100% something we would have done together. And it would have been an amazing moment. It would have been amazing bonding, all those sorts of things. And that was probably one of the first times I really went like, fuck. I'm really, really because when when they pass, I guess, you you're you're sorrowful of, I guess, the what what was or what is, I guess. And that was a moment where I'm like, oh, this is what could have been. I could have been here with her. And, you know, I kinda talked with Joey about that in the moment and shared that.
And and he was really supportive of it and and just, you know, more listening than anything. And then right right at towards the end, we're talking about, you know, obviously, traveling traveling with mom. And I was saying like, oh, yeah. No. We'd no. We did get to do a little bit here and there. One of the first things we did, when she got diagnosed was she said she wanted to visit Ayers Rock in Australia, Uluru. And so we we did that. And to go through, to Ayers Rock, which is in like, right in the center of of Australia, normally, you'll have fly into Alice Springs, which is the one of the bigger towns nearby there, and and then go to there. And Alice Springs is a bit of a shithole.
It's a lot of a shithole, in fact. It's it's, you know, just just out in the middle of nowhere. They've got a lot of the a lot of the Aboriginals there have this kind of real hard time mixing with this, I guess, Australian culture, especially it's kind of like, I guess, the, Native Americans, with alcohol, especially. Like, you know, it's it's not good for their systems. Like, they can't handle it, kind of like the Europeans. Europeans can. European heritage. And so, you know, there's a lot of social problems there. It's and it's just in the middle of nowhere, man. Like, it's it's not a nice place. And we'd been talking about that about a week earlier. And so he's like, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. So your mom gets diagnosed with with with, like, you know, this awful awful degenerative disease.
And so your first thing to do is to take her to the worst place on Earth, which is, we're just, losing our shit and laughing. And he really turned to this moment that could have been a purely negative experience of, you know, here I am looking at the Parthenon and moping about what could have been. And he really flipped it on its head into one of the funniest things I've I've heard in, like, ages. And, I think having having moments like that as well where you you can share it with other people, even if they are gonna struggle to perhaps, you know, understand if they've never had a, a loved one pass, or I I I think just sharing things and not looking forward for any kind of conclusion or resolution or, help or guidance or advice, just just simply sharing it, in those moments. I I I look back now and I go like, oh, that was really beneficial. That was probably more helpful than any amount of, like, journaling or inner work or any sort of stuff that I could have done. It was, yeah, just simply sharing that with someone, but not not like placing the burden on them either. Just just simply, like, you know, this is what happened. This is what I'm feeling at the time.
Yeah. Do you have any moments like that?
[00:48:13] Cole McCormick:
Yes and no. For a few friends of mine, they seem to be really sympathetic for me, and, you know, they're willing to just, like, listen to me. Mhmm. And but I think at the same time, I have, maybe I failed in some relationships where hello, kat. I feel like in some relationships, I failed where I, I might have put a burden of wanting someone to to help me with closure or to help me with with something, with some sort of nurturing thing. But then, like, judging them for not providing that or judging them for not being whatever I think they should be.
And so, like, just hearing you say that, it's like, yeah. I, seem to drop my expectations sometimes for some people. But then, like, that, like, hurts me. You know? Like, that, like, hurts my heart. It's like because I want certain people in my life to to be that or, like, to to have some sort of instinct to just, like, to know exactly what I need. You know? And maybe that's just, like, me crying out for myself or me just, like, not opening up to oh, just generally not opening up enough to allow that person to give me what they're able to give me. You know, I'm sort of I feel like in the last year, I've I've judged a few people in my life where it's like, you're not doing enough for me.
And but then, like, I'm just being quiet, or, like, I don't really wanna share what's going on. I just wanna, like, internalize it. I wanna figure it out for myself, which is low key like a story throughout my whole life. Like, just trying to figure things out on my own, like, sort of listening to people's advice, but also being disappointed by different leaders as I was growing up and realizing that maybe a lot of people don't really know what the fuck they're talking about when they're talking to me. So And maybe I just need to figure it out on my own. And so I, yeah, man. It's it's very interesting. I'm sort of having, like, a humbling moment right now just like like because it's like, I feel justified in the judgment, but then I know that the judgment is no good, but then there's just, like, pragmatic side of it. It's like, what do I need? You know? And, like, what I need is not being provided for right now.
So it's very interesting that I'm very happy that you had that experience. I had that experience with a few friends at work at the restaurant where they were, you know, they're just, like one of them was Christian. One of them wasn't really, but he was, like, very, empathetic, very compassionate. And so, like, those two guys were able to just, like, you know, just just let me talk and just, like, hear me out, listen to me when I have, like, a funny story, you know, to share about my dad because my dad has, like, a, like, a a gazillion funny stories that I'm, like, trying to, like, remember. I'm trying to, like, remember, like, how to tell it the right way, the way that he would tell it. Mhmm. And, just trying to make sure that, like, I I say it in a way that that puts him in, like, a funny light and, like, a good light. You know?
And so they were very they were very helpful with that. But then I also think you also see a lot of people's immaturity when it comes to this thing. And not in a in a judgmental way, but it's just sort of there. You sort of see, like, who's able to walk up and show up without even asking, you know, just like just being just being empathetic or or or being vocal about being present with you. Some people just were not that, and you're able to see that. You know, I'm not sure what you experienced, but that's and I'm certainly not even trying to, like, throw anyone on under the bus, you know, just like this is just what death is or I I'm sort of interpreting as, like, when these giant life things happen, you know, some people aren't preparing themselves for that, or some people are not ready to experience that with you. And it's just it's your individual journey to experience that because I certainly feel more prepared. Like, if there's someone in my life who loses somebody, you know, I definitely have that side of me now. It's like, well, I definitely know how to talk to them or at least I think I do. You know, I'm not gonna try to hover over them, but I'm certainly gonna I feel like I have the words. You know? I feel like I have the wisdom to at least, to have some sort of a positive impact in that person's life, I'm assuming, but maybe maybe not. It's a
[00:52:37] Kyrin Down:
tough, tricky ground that I think you gotta just test out for yourself. For for myself, for example, I think trying to just be as open right at the start as possible. So for example, you know, you ask someone how their day is going. Almost always, you'll just hear, yeah. Good. And and, you know, they could be having the worst day of their life, and they'll still they'll still say that. I try and say, yeah. You know what? I had a I had a crappy happy, a crappy moment. Today, I'm feeling super tired and just, like, baked today. You know? I I don't wanna do anything, etcetera, etcetera. And I was kind of thinking, yeah. You know what? There was some moments where I'd I'd I'd perhaps mention, like, oh, you know, mom my mom passed last year or something like this.
And sometimes I would do it in the sense of it was the right moment to bring up in a conversation. And then other times, I'd noticed I was doing it because, you know, perhaps it it was a, a way of forcing a connection with someone or or something like that. And and you can have you can do it the opposite ways as well, where you bring it up with someone and and they're obviously not in a place where they want to talk about that. You know, perhaps death is discomfort uncomfortable to them. Perhaps talking with you about serious things is uncomfortable. And you find that with some friends, they'll they'll give you what you perhaps what you were expecting, perhaps what you want, and then others weren't. And then random strangers can be vice versa as well.
One thing I I I noticed once probably two years ago, it was when I was much more deeper into the kind of podcasts, and I was trying to make them more of a, a serious gig, as a job than than perhaps they are for myself now. And I remember there was there was some moments where, this was before I'd I'd ever talked about mom's illness. And I was thinking of bringing it up on the podcast or talking about it. And, I realized like, oh, you know what? The probable reason I'd probably be doing that gross as it is would be for for kind of engagement. And you can see people do that where they will bring up stuff, talk about things probably more for the reason of wanting to gain an audience or a following or a reaction rather than because it's something they think is helpful or valuable or it's it's what they actually want to do. You know?
And so I didn't at the time, and I'm I'm very glad and thankful that I didn't. And it was only when mom's illness was getting really bad that it was actually impacting the podcast where I had to put up, like, a little mini explanation saying, like, hey. I'm just need to stop for a while. Like, that and there's the reason why. So
[00:55:45] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. I just stopped, dude. I just stopped making podcasts. I'm just I'm not gonna do any announcement. I just, like, you know, like because I was in the same boat you were. I was like, I'm not gonna do this for content. Like, there's no way. I need to, like, just take my time with it, and maybe I'll be open about it. But me being open about it will just be that. I just feel like being open about it, and that'll just be from my own internal, like, wanting to be wanting to express myself, not from a place of content or wanting attention. Like, I just need to get this out, and maybe it will help somebody.
[00:56:18] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Sure. Sure. And similar thing, you know, if if the file got corrupted for this, it was still immensely valuable chatting with you, and I'm I'm glad we did. Hopefully it hopefully it doesn't. And but but it's kind of that expectation and and learning what how how other people will react to you bringing up these things as well. Take takes a bit of, I guess, like, nuance and and testing out the waters as well. I would say, you know, I as my dad was the closest to my mom, he was looking after her the most in the the whole period. You know? She couldn't drive. That was so she was very reliant on him or myself and my brother for driving. And then, especially, like, the last nine months, he was the one spending spending the most care for her. And then when she eventually needed to go to the hospital, was was visiting her a lot there as well.
And, I've I haven't really, I would say, had a deep conversation with him about everything that happened, not for lack of trying. It's just he doesn't particularly want to. I don't think so. And that that's, you know, that's okay. That's one of those things I'll I'll still bring up every now and then, you know, three months afterwards, six months afterwards, a year later. Because you don't wanna be one of those people who are or have a friend who's kinda suffering in silence, and it's from lack of effort on your part that you're you're not, a friend or loved one who's suffering a silence. And and just because you you haven't tried to reach out, you know, that's that's all you can do, reach out and and and see.
[00:58:07] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Do you think maybe you gotta put your dad in in a new scenario? Maybe you should go on a twenty hour drive with him.
[00:58:15] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. We'd we'd probably, that'd be unfortunate because I think we'd both go insane and and drive off the cliff and so so that my brother would have a lot to deal with. Yeah. And and, look, there there have been. Like, I I have I have tried that as well, so that's that's not not the real yeah. I suppose I could go even further. Yeah. You don't have to. I'm not trying to pry anything out of you, but that's just interesting. No. No. It's, it's it's worth doing as well. And, you know, perhaps they they won't even want to do a new situation with you because it could lead to something like that. You know?
So, yeah, you know, spending time with people is is is all you can do in those sorts of situations. And, And, you know, maybe he's not, as deeply affected. Maybe, he has gotten over it emotionally in his own way. You know, that's the other thing that I was saying in that book, on grief and grieving. Don't try and force things onto people, that you think they should be feeling. You know? If someone has a a husband pass away unexpectedly and they are kind of just, you know, normal, they're not deeply in shock. They're not crying every day. They're not experiencing what you think they should be showing in terms of grief or grieving.
That's that's more on you rather than on them. So that's that's another thing to to think about. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:59:57] Cole McCormick:
You know, luckily, you know, my mom has been pretty pretty, adamant about taking trips and, like, doing things with the family, going to, like, a new place. So every year, before there was, like, any diagnosis, my parents were always going they had this group of friends, and they would always drive down to Mexico. It's like a four hour drive, to this town called, Rocky Point. And really fun area, you know, pretty low key vibes, you know, just some nice hotels and resorts, and you just sort of when you live in Southern Arizona, you're probably going to Mexico for, like, a little mini vacay. And so for, like, four years, you know, it's pretty consistent. I'm going either once a year or twice a year.
And after he died, the the trip was always in October. And so after he died, it was always like, alright. Like, are we going to Mexico? Like, are we really gonna go to Mexico? Like, I guess, like, we sort of like, we should, you know, but, like, I don't really want to. Because, like, in Mexico, you know, that's, like, the party vibe. You know? We're we're still drinking. We're in the pool. We're at the beach. We're you know, there's jet skis on the beach for, like, $20 for, like, thirty minutes. You know? Like, you you know, you you you're able to have fun, but it's like, wow. Like, this is not the same. But still being in Mexico, being in that new environment, I was still able to just, like, go it it was like a certain phase. You know? Like, okay. Like, I've been on a trip without my dad.
You know? And that that was, like, a nice thing because it was familiar, and it was with other family friends. And, and my mom was also but before he died, that he went to so my my parents were a part of this. Their, their business would donate to this, like, community youth sports thing. I I'm not even sure how to describe it, but this this organization would put on, child sports like like soccer, baseball, all these, like, little kids sports, and they would get the money from local businesses. And they would always do an annual gala with all these businesses and all the donors, and it was always just like a fun thing, and there would always be this, this auction. And, the year that he died, I think this thing happened, like you know, it it was a while. I think it was it might have been, like, January or February before he died.
They had, like, themes or, like, every table had a theme. And my dad goes as chemo Ken, and my mom goes as as nurse Barbie. And so, like, he's sort of just, like, taking on that. But at the auction during the auction portion, my dad bid on a weekend cabin in Northern Arizona, which is a really nice area, really nice trees. You know, it snows up in Northern Arizona. And, he he he just thought it would be, like, a nice thing to do. He wasn't sure when we would do it, but he wanted to do it. And after he died, a part one conversation was, like, my mom said, you know, we still have that we still have that cabin up north. And, it was sort of, like I think that's where one aspect of gratitude comes from for me is, like like, wow. I'm so thankful my dad had, like, the foresight to give us some sort of peaceful environment to go to. Even though, like, he didn't plan on us going there after he dies, but, like like, just, like, thank you, dad, for, like, getting this cabin for us. Like because it was a real transaction. Like, thank you for getting this for us.
And and I and I remember that trip was, like, was really good for me as well because that was that was when the fires in Los Angeles were happening, and I'm like, I'm getting the fuck out of here right now. And and I'm in this, like, really nice peaceful environment. It's really chilly. It's really cold up there and, you know, just like you're going from, like, SoCal to Northern Arizona. You know? Just a it's a completely different environment. You know? Like, you you're in the mountains. You're at higher elevation. You're cold, and you're able to just be there. And it's and you get this whole environment. You have, like, the fireplace, and you got the chili thing, and you got you got, a movie on, and you got you know, it's a whole vibe.
And it's very healing. Like like, going to different putting yourself in a new environment is very healing when it comes to this grieving thing. That's what I've realized, and I've certainly realized that with, like, other jobs as well. I've done my best to to look for a better job, something that I felt was just more I'm not sure if fulfilling is the right word, but just, you know, just not stressing me out because the kitchen was stressful. You know? I just don't wanna I don't want my workplace to stress me out. I'm not sure how other people feel about that. Some people like to be stressed, I think. But I I I'd tell you everything in my path to avoid stress in my life. Yeah, man. But now I have a new job, which is really chill, like, one of the chillest jobs I've ever had.
And, I'm just happy I'm in that new environment. And I'm happy that I can, like, you know, just I can I can sort of move forward, and I can I can, I can feel comfortable where I'm at? Like, I'm I I I right now, I don't feel trapped. You know? I don't feel trapped. And I think somewhere within this past year, I did feel trapped.
[01:05:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. And and you think that was kind of, trapped in the sense of location or in your thinking, your mindset?
[01:05:18] Cole McCormick:
What what what in particular? I mean, it's a combination of a lot of things, like trapped in the sense that I no longer have, like, an out. Like, my dad was my out when it came to information about the car or when it came to, like, if I was low on money, you know? Because LA is just, like, super expensive, and my job wasn't providing a lot of a lot of money. And I'm doing my best to find a better job. And it's like, I still can't find a new job, but I need my dad to help me out for with certain bills. And it's like, I I don't have that anymore.
So, like, I sort of felt trapped beforehand, and I sort of felt trapped after he died because it's like, damn. Like, now I don't have that anymore. Now I need to figure out my own way. Like, I'm in my own little escape room right now, and I gotta, like like, I I I gotta figure out the puzzle. I also felt trapped. So, like, I I so finances comes to mind. The job comes to mind with being trapped, and I low key wanna get out of this apartment, you know, just because I've been here for, like, eight years. And, you know, I just want a new apartment. I would like to build myself up. You know, it's either because right now in my life, I'm either gonna move back to Arizona or I'm gonna make enough money to move to a better apartment.
That's sort of where I'm at. And I'm, like, I really wanna go to a new apartment. I really wanna make it. Like, I don't wanna I feel like if I moved up moved back to Arizona, it'd be justified with everything going on, but, like, I wouldn't feel good about myself. And, like, I wanna I wanna make it better for myself, and I wanna just double down on my effort. And my dad gave me a good work ethic, and, like, my dad didn't teach me to be a victim. My dad didn't teach me to to give up. My dad always believed in me. My dad told me to chase my dreams. My dad told me to just do your best.
And so, like, that's where I'm at right now. Like, I don't feel trapped because I know that I can I'm able to do my best. And so, like, that's like I'm in the middle of that right now. Sure. I'm a big believer in
[01:07:20] Kyrin Down:
a change of location, really having a a mindset shift as well. The probably one of the reasons I like traveling so much is is because it can allow you to do that. But even even things like moving apartment as well, I've I've been thinking about moving as well, and I I think that would be a a helpful switch into perhaps a a bit of a new stage in my life or or, certainly help me with some of the goals that I'm I'm looking to achieve. It would literally be five or ten minutes down the road, but it it would be enough to create a a bit of a, like, a mentality switch in my own head.
So I'm I'm yeah. I'm a I'm a pretty big believer in in doing that up, especially with your physical locations of, like, where you're staying and and and things like that.
[01:08:10] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Yeah, man. I would love to live by the beach. My goal is to live in Santa Monica. You know, rent out there is insane. Rent out there is, like, straight up double a little more than double what I'm paying now. So I got if I wanna do that, I gotta figure that out. You know? Like, that's not that's not gonna come easy. Because everyone who lives in Santa Monica, they have, like, tech jobs. They have, like, they have, like, silly influencer jobs. You know what I mean? And, so that's my goal. You know? Like, in my head, like, that's when I know, like, I've made it in my head. It's like, if I'm living in Santa Monica, I've gotten through it. Like, I've figured it out on some level. Gotta gotta gotta get that raw milk influencer money, man. I know, dude. And there's not a lot of money in raw milk.
A lot of money, dude. And I'm trying to do the influencer thing pisses me off too because it's like, I don't even know how to do it, but I know some people who are making really good money from it. Like, how do you do this? How do you make a meme that makes money?
[01:09:12] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah.
[01:09:14] Cole McCormick:
It's crazy.
[01:09:15] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. There's, I I feel there's a lot of opportunity out there at the same time as well. There's, obviously, the probably the the commonality is the being able to work hard, but Yeah. I'm I'm I'm very excited about the future in terms of just what what, Internet, what what things like, crypto, Bitcoin, all all that. I think it just opens up the the world for more more opportunities than than there was before. Like, the fact that influencer is a is a job that people can make money from being pretty or being funny or being interesting or Yeah.
Whatever, being entertaining. That's that's just wild. That's so crazy.
[01:10:00] Cole McCormick:
Yeah, man. I think I'm I think I might struggle with doing, like, the influence thing because I'm so, like I think I'm in I am cycling through, like, a depression right now. Like, I just I sometimes I don't feel like creating. Like, even when it comes to like, I pay for this AI clipping thing. I don't even have to do any fucking work, but I don't wanna post what the AI clips. Like, I could literally just push a button, but, like, I don't wanna do that for some reason. And so, like, I I gotta work through that. You know, that's, like, another hump when it comes to me posting more and talking to more people on the podcast and, you know, trying to figure out, you know, just, different streams of of income and just, like, doubling down on my creativity. That's really what I wanna do.
[01:10:43] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. I'd you know, I'd I'd I wouldn't suggest just from the the bit that I do know you. I wouldn't suggest that influence is the the way to go, but there's, you know, all sorts of opportunities in terms of, you know, here's a more like a perhaps even a vlog style. Like, this is what it's like trying to create create a new movie. This is, yeah, influencer as a job is is probably gonna go away pretty soon anyway. The the AI influencers are coming in Yeah. You're probably real life. The real life ones are gonna struggle. So it's it's funny about, like, you know, what's the what's the even more human, aspect that that you could show or or things like that that are that that are valuable to people as well. So, you know, I I enjoy listening into your like, certainly some of your podcasts, not all of them. Some episodes, I'm just like, ah, you know, that's like, I don't I don't care about politics, for example. So I'm I'm not gonna tune into the political ones, but there there's certainly, enough things that are out there that, and and even, you know, who knows? Maybe it's maybe it's like, you know, this is what it's like working in a shitty kitchen can be can be interesting and and valuable to people.
If if you're wanting to to go the route of, certainly, like, making an income or a job or a lifestyle from from from the from an audience because you don't have to do that either. You can you can do it from investing. You can do it from manual labor. You can do it from, you know, myriad of all the jobs that are out there. Yeah. I think my my larger point was, like, I don't feel trapped because of that opportunity. Like, I feel that, like, that opportunity is there, and I agree with you that crypto and Bitcoin
[01:12:30] Cole McCormick:
are, like, an opportunity to invest in. And, like, that's another way to to build yourself up and being online and posting online is an opportunity for myself. Like, I don't feel trapped because of lack of opportunity. You know? And I'm I just need to double down on that.
[01:12:48] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. 100%, man. I'm I'm gonna be here for the journey. Keeping this safe. Hell yeah, dude.
[01:12:54] Cole McCormick:
You know, we've been talking for over an hour, man. What else is on your mind with this grieving stuff, dude? Do you have to leave soon or what's that like for? No. No. Not particularly.
[01:13:04] Kyrin Down:
I'd I'd say that's most of the the things that come to mind. Yeah. Yeah. I miss mom. I miss mom, but it's not a daily sort of thing. Like I said, the the one year mark, I think, is is a good, like, reflection point of just going, oh, yeah. You know, let's change. And probably the last three months are more stead well, I was traveling, I guess, so that well, but I was traveling before that as well. Yeah. I'd say, like, the last three months have just been a lot more steady in terms of my temperament and how I think about her and and the the whole process of death even, as as compared to the nine months before that was much more much more up in the, up in the air. I guess I guess for me, I'm I'm at, what, one May, June, July, August. So, yeah, I'm I'm, like, one year and three months. So three months ahead of you in in that Mhmm. Time. But yeah.
How about you?
[01:14:08] Cole McCormick:
Did you bury your mom, or was she cremated?
[01:14:10] Kyrin Down:
She was cremated, and we, did a kind of ceremonial burying of her ashes in New Zealand, where she was from. And so she was she was, I guess, buried, next to her mom and dad in New Zealand. So that that was nice, but also, I I wouldn't say that was highly impactful for me. I think that's more of a ceremonial thing. And, yeah, I'm I'm I'm not one much for ceremonies, for example. Like, I didn't I didn't want to go to my own graduation when I graduated from university, but my my mom my my parents kinda, like, forced me to. So, yeah. I'm I'm not watching
[01:14:54] Cole McCormick:
not one much for ceremony, so that didn't make that big of an impact for me. Yeah. Yeah. My dad got cremated too. Luckily, he they had all that planned out. And it was weird, dude. Like, we went to the freaking funeral home that day, and it was, like, weird, dude. It was weird. Wow. Good. It was weird, dude.
[01:15:15] Kyrin Down:
I guess because mom was in a hospital, they have to do, like, an autopsy or something for for cause of death. Yeah. So for her, it was it was much more of, like, a longer process, and and my dad had organized all of that already. So Yeah. I didn't that's that's probably one thing to to we could chat about was I didn't see her dead body, which I'm rather grateful for. I I don't think I would handle that so well. It's kinda like not kinda like, you know, when I think of when I was a young teenager exploring the Internet, and then you find your way onto the gore sites and things like that. And you see one or two videos, and you're like, wow, that's so fucked up. I don't need. Yeah. I'm not I'm not interested in seeing more of this. You know?
[01:16:11] Cole McCormick:
Here's a ISIS heading video once you're in the grade. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yep.
[01:16:19] Kyrin Down:
And there's been one or two things in real life. So, when I was in Mexico with my friends Juan and Joey, we came across a crime scene where some people had been I believe it it was one or two people had been killed in a in a taxi shot in a Cancun. And I I don't even recall seeing the dead bodies. I I barely even recall that instance. But Juan and Joey were like, dude, we were standing right in front of it. We could, like, we got to because it had to happen, like, twenty minutes after we were in that area. Yeah. Right. Right. So when it comes to, I guess, chaos, mayhem, gore, those sort of things, I I don't I don't like seeing that in real life in front of me. So I I think seeing mom's dead body would have, I I I don't think that would have been a good thing to to see for myself. But, I mean, you were it sounds like you were you're right there. You you saw your dad. Ground zero, dude. Imagine yeah. Ground zero, dude. It was crazy.
[01:17:33] Cole McCormick:
To be to look to be looking at the bed, you know, like, to be looking at the bed, and that's where he's at. Like, it's just dramatically surreal. Dramatically surreal. And it was so early in the morning. So, like, you're still, like, in a in a haze, and, like, you know it's happening. And if so so, like, here's, like, the sequence of what happened. Right? So my mom, she wakes up in the middle of the night. Right? And she just, like, suddenly wakes up. Like, nothing woke her up. She just suddenly wakes up, and she realizes that my dad's not breathing. And she would always, like throughout the last week, she would, like, put her hand on his chest to make sure that that he's breathing. And then, you know, she realizes he's not breathing, but he's still warm. He's, like, as warm as warm can be. And, like, she sort of realizes, like, it literally like, something happened, like, just right then. Like, he's gone.
And so she has her small moment, and she closes his eyes. And she immediately comes to me, and I'm in the front room. I'm in the guest room, and, you know, she sort of just, like, wakes me up. You know, honey. Honey. You know? He's it it's time. Like like like like, dad's died. Papa's passed. And, I'm like, okay. And I sorta, like, held my mom's hand for a second. I was like, okay. Okay. Okay. Hang on. Hang on. I like I like I held her hand because it was like I knew that she needed someone to hold her hand, but I was also like, let me wake up for a second. Hang on. Okay. Okay. I was sorta just like, give me a second, mom. And then I go to my sit I I go to my youngest sister's room, and then I tell her I sort of whisper to her, and I wake her up like, hey. It's time to it's time.
And then and then my, as, like, my sister's coming out of her room, my grandma was, like, in the bathroom, and she's coming out of the bathroom. And, like like we're like, hey, grandma. Like, hey. It's happened. And she was like, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then I and then I go to my other sister, and she's sleeping with her little kid with her, he's five at the time or yeah. Yeah. Five. And and, the first thing that my sister says is like, what am I gonna tell Wyatt? And so I was just, like, I was, like, sitting right there with her and just, like, trying to, like, figure out, like, what is she supposed to tell her son in this moment? It's so early in the day. Like, are we supposed to wake him up right now? He's not gonna wake up. Is he even gonna realize what's going on right now? And so it's like, that's such a wild thing to that it's a crazy conversation to have with your sister. You know? And then we all just, like, had a moment together and, you know, like, we're crying, of course, but, like, like I said earlier, you know, it was, like because it was so early in the morning, there was a peace.
And, it's just, like, sort of just, like I I I don't wanna say you're going through the going through the motions, but, like, at least I was able to accept, like, this is how this moment should be. This is this moment. This is correct. This moment is correct. There's nothing out of line right now. And so, you know, we did our prayers, and we, I had a small moment to myself in the backyard. I sort of I did, like, a little voice audio recording to myself, just like, you know, just like for my own things to get my mind there or just to just to record where I was at right then.
And, and then we had a small moment with my nephew. You know, he's, like, still, like, like, he's asleep, but, you know, like, he he's sort of there. And then it was, like, a waiting game of, like, waiting for I forget who I forget who was supposed to come there. I think it was, like, the hospice. It was hospice who was, like, gonna, like, take his body. And, you know, and I have all the respect in the world for hospice people, dude. Those hospice folks are super brave. Like, they're really like, there are some different people in this world. And, like, hospice people, like, they're sort of, like their job is to, like, just their job is to give you instruction how to do things properly in the final days of a person's life. Like, that's a crazy responsibility to have, and they're supposed to just, like, calm you down somehow by giving you procedures.
But, like, the procedures aren't really helping at all. They're I mean, they're sort of helping, but, like, they're not really solving any problem. You know what I mean? Just weird thing. And so the hospice people came and they confirmed his death, and then, like, they took his body to the to the funeral home. And then, like, at, like, 10AM that day, we go to the funeral home, and we, like we're in a room of it's like, imagine, like, like, animal heads, you know, like deer heads and bear heads. Like, imagine, like, that kind of a room, but it's, like, caskets and options of urns. Like, you've got a lot of options of caskets and urns around you, and it's just, like, everything seems a little, suit like, super luxurious.
And there's, like, price tags on these things, and some of them are really respectful, and some of them are like, I would never put my dad in that. Like, you're sort of looking at how tacky some of these things are. And we're, like, picking out the color of the urn, and then we're, like, picking out the font. Like, that was the most fucked up thing of the whole thing. Like, I gotta pick the font of this thing. Like, that's so that's so stupid. Can that just be AI, please? Oh my god. Yeah, dude. Like, pick the worst font ever. But but but we picked a nice font, and, and this guy so here's the funny part of that moment.
The guy helping us. There was two people. There was a man and a woman. The man, super respectful, you know, like and and these people are very nice to you. They have to be. But this guy, he had, like, I'm not sure what they call it, like, facial tics, I guess. And so, like, he's doing, like, these, like, he's, like, he's making, like, bubbles with his cheeks, and he's, like, doing, like, weird things with his eyebrows. He's like, so, what kind of, have you given any thought to the to the font on the on the urn? And, like, it's just, like, this, like, insanely almost comical situation happening. You have to pick on while this guy is just, like, his neurotic self. I guess this is it it it could be like a Larry David show, you know, like like, yeah. I assume, like, that's what I almost felt like I was in. Everyone's super nice, but everyone is so weird.
It's a very strange experience, dude. I I forgot what the point of that was, but I think, yeah. Yeah. I I saw the dead body, and I and I saw him I saw them wheel him away. And, you know, it's, I have I I maybe this is morbid to say, but I have, like, two photographs of the moments. You know, I'm I'm not gonna, like, ponder on those photographs at all, but, like, I don't know. I just felt like I had to take them. Like, this is the final photo. You know? And it wasn't like a it wasn't like a close-up. You know? I try to make it I try to make it poetic or something. You know? Yeah.
Something something my dad would like. You know? A photo my father would like. But, I remember that morning. The good thing about that morning was, a part of the peacefulness was my mom and my grandma were were able to, like, talk, and I remember, like, laughter. You know? And it wasn't, like, fake laughter. It was, like, they were having, like, a real conversation, and someone said something funny. And they're sitting right there next to him, and we all know that. And that's just that was a very impactful and surreal thing, you know, to to to both see my grandma cry for her son, and then to also hear her laugh a cup a couple hours later.
That's a human experience. Like, that's like, I I don't have the words for that, but that is the human experience.
[01:25:44] Kyrin Down:
That's intense, man. Yeah. Wow.
[01:25:46] Cole McCormick:
That's crazy too. It's I wish, like, I wanna make a movie about that, but, like, you know, I don't know how compelling that would be. Like, it's just, like, it's just it's just my life.
[01:25:56] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. No. But that's that's the that's the interesting moments, man. That's the, the observations and and and small things like that.
[01:26:04] Cole McCormick:
Yeah, man. And then we had so, oh, I I okay. This is what I was gonna say. Here's the real story that I was gonna say. So we he got cremated, and, we had a celebration of life. I'm not sure if that's, like, a thing in Australia.
[01:26:17] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. We mom's mom's memorial service was more of a reflection and a lighter side rather than, like, the tone was not meant to be overly heavy.
[01:26:29] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. Yeah. Good. And then that was the same thing with us. So we had the we had the celebration of life in our backyard, which is another weird thing to plan for a party. To plan for and we treated it like a party. Like, okay. This is where we're gonna have we're we're gonna have the tacos here. The chips are gonna be here. The salsa's gonna be there. We're gonna have the drinks right here. People are gonna come in in this direction. We're gonna have a porta potty that's gonna that's coming in at 3PM. Like, you're doing, like, logistics.
Yeah. And, a lot of people showed up, and I was really grateful to to see that, you know, to see those to see those people. Even though I didn't know all of them, because, like, some of them were, like, from my my dad's childhood, and I'm, like, sort of just getting to know these people from my from when my dad was a kid. And then there's, like, some other people who knew me as a baby, but, like, we hadn't seen each other in twenty eight years. So it's like yeah. They're like, cool. You're so big now. And I'm like, I've never seen you in my life. Yeah. Who are you? Yeah. But I'm thank thank you for being here. Thank you for knowing my dad. And, you know, just so many different types of people from so many different eras. You know, that's sort of how I how I saw it. There's so many eras in my dad's life that were present during the celebration.
Same same with my mom. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like you get to see these different eras. It's like, wow. You're all so old. And and I will be old too one day. You know? Like, that's gonna be me. Like, I'm the young guy. I I like, I'm the son in this scenario, but, like, one day I will be that friend. I will be that, you know, where who whoever I am, what whatever role I have, I will be in that older position. And so just to see to to experience this thing at this age, at this stage of my life, like, that's I don't know, man. It's, it's just very interesting. I I I wish I had poetic things to say about it. It's just it's interesting, and it's impactful, and it's it's so intense.
[01:28:29] Kyrin Down:
That's, that's life, isn't it? That's Yeah, man.
[01:28:33] Cole McCormick:
Super duper life. Life and death. Life and death. Yeah. Life and death. But I'm grateful I saw I saw his body because I think that's a part of closure. You know, they I think sometimes they say that, like, an open casket funeral can bring closure. That happened with a great grandmother of mine. I was never close with her, but I remember, like, that was being told to me as a little kid. Like, we're gonna do an open casket, you know. Like, I'm really hearing, like, people, like, above me saying, like, okay. Well, you know, they do say it brings closer. You know? So it's like, I I I have that vague memory of seeing my great grandmother's body as well. And so maybe I wasn't that afraid to see my dad's because I did have that moment when I was younger.
Should do. So but I would I've never been a fan of bearing. Like, burying a body. Like, I think I think bearing an urn is different. Like, I I could definitely handle bearing an urn. I would not wanna bury a body. That just sounds that just sounds sad.
[01:29:30] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. My my brother and I walked, he he wanted to play Pokemon Go. So we started walking,
[01:29:38] Cole McCormick:
around the burial site?
[01:29:40] Kyrin Down:
Well, there was a he he asked me, like, what's this big green patch over here? And I was like, well, that's the cemetery where we drive past almost every day. Wow. He never noticed it. And, so we we ended up just walking around it. And I did something similar when I was in Montreal. I went up to, like, the the the top of Montreal, the of the the mountain, I guess. And you caught you? Well, so I wasn't playing Pogo at, in Montreal. But, no. I I don't I don't think he even got any shinies, which is so very disappointing. Don't go to the don't go to the cemetery if you wanna if you wanna catch a good Pokemon.
But it was yeah. I I also agree. It's a it's just rather a strange place. You know? There's a lot of space. No one there. A lot of you know, many of these bodies were buried eighty years ago. Bodies people were buried that long ago, and it's just like, what we were asking each other, like, what happens to because, you know, there's there wasn't that much space there anymore. Does this land eventually just get taken over? Because, you know, you can't you can't just keep having this tremendous amount of space being taken up by people who don't even have a connection. You know? It's people's like great great grand fathers or grandmothers. They they don't know any of these people. Mhmm.
What what eventually happens with that? I I imagine that that land just gets reclaimed at some point, and they do they move the bodies on? Do they I have no idea. I think they might. You know, I know there's a place there's a cemetery in San Diego,
[01:31:23] Cole McCormick:
California where it's actually, like, some, like, old Western Cemetery. And, like, this it's like it's it's declared, like, some sort of memorial site. You know? It's like it's like the city has sanctioned it to, like, we're not gonna touch this because of the historical relevance of it or something like that.
[01:31:41] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. There's I mean, there's there's there's many of them. The in Buenos Aires, there's a place called, Recoleta, Recoleta, which is kind of, like, where they have a lot of the memorials and tombs, and there's a lot of famous people buried there and, you know, all this crazy crazy stuff where, you know, if you wanna plot a plot of, land there to be able to bury someone, it costs, like, $150
[01:32:07] Cole McCormick:
or something, you know, just absurd absurd amounts of money. Oh my god. Yeah, dude. I looked up during this whole thing, I looked up where Michael Jackson was buried, and he's buried at this cemetery that I used to work by. So, like, I used to work at Warner Brothers. Right? There's a cemetery of all these, like, famous Hollywood people right across the road of from Warner Brothers, and that's where Michael Jackson is. And, like, they like, it's there's the these temples. These people have temples for their caskets and their bodies.
[01:32:36] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yep. Real. Yeah. That's that's what's, that's what's in Recoleta. And the but but then you think about it. How many human beings have existed? I think it's like a 100,000,000,000 or something like that. How many people, have gravestones and they're in cemeteries? It's probably like millions, but I'd I'd certainly not getting up into the billions. And so all of those people, what what's what's happened to them? I imagine cremation wasn't that popular. You know, cremation's more of a modern thing, I I feel, with the ability to maybe, like, Viking funerals and stuff like that. So maybe.
But that I'm sure probably, like, a lot of places where you're you've stood on, you're standing on was maybe once a cemetery or had someone buried there. That that that seems that seems
[01:33:33] Cole McCormick:
logical to me. Well, isn't that what, like, poltergeist is about? Like, the house is built on a old cemetery, and that's why there's, like, a bunch of paranormal shit going on? Yeah. But what I'm thinking is just every house should it be poltergeist, you know? Yeah. You're right. No. You're right, dude. It's it's scary to think about because then, you know, there's also a a big military cemetery out in Santa Monica, and, you know, the I'm sure the government will hold on to that land forever. But it's like, how, like, how do you plan for that space? Like, how how many people are gonna die? Like, how do you plan for, like, a cemetery? It's very strange.
[01:34:11] Kyrin Down:
But when you say forever, you know, that's that's probably not correct because, what, governments don't last forever. You know? That's true. Probably the most successful ones have been, what, a couple of hundred years, maybe getting up close to I don't think there's any that have lasted for more than five hundred, 600. You'd be probably pulling a bit of a stretch to say,
[01:34:35] Cole McCormick:
a continuous type one. So Well, how long is it gone? Like, what about Rome? Like, did did they run cemeteries?
[01:34:42] Kyrin Down:
I'm sure they did, but they, you know, Rome wasn't that long. It was that that was a couple of hundred years. Rome lasted a couple hundred years? I think I don't think it was that long.
[01:34:53] Cole McCormick:
At least like its heyday. You know? No. I don't believe that at all. I I no way. No way.
[01:34:59] Kyrin Down:
The so I was I was reading just on the and and and this is what I mean by by governments as well. So you can have countries that have lasted forever, and it's like, this is the country. But even then, countries change and go. Prussia, for example. You know? Yeah. Things like that. But but, like, a kind of continuous government in that that's able to hold on to certain swaths of land and say, like, you know, this is ours. And talking about cemeteries now. Mhmm. Let let's say a millennium. Let's say they've lasted a a thousand years. Even then, you know, that those those things change, come and go.
I'm yeah. I I should look into the small it's actually interest starting to interest me. What what what happens to cemeteries when when they, get repurposed for other uses?
[01:35:53] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. I think they just let the bodies disintegrate. I feel like that's what happens. Or they just flood the flood it.
[01:35:59] Kyrin Down:
That I mean, I don't know how long caskets, are meant to last for underground, but I I don't feel that a they'll last for a thousand years. So
[01:36:10] Cole McCormick:
No. They definitely won't. No. No. I mean, Michael Jackson's casket was, like, brass and fucking, like, velvet or something. Like, maybe that lasts longer. But Yeah. Yeah. I need need a plutonium or a I don't know. Some some unreal solid diamond casket. Or gold. How long will gold last? Because his casket was, like, gold plated.
[01:36:29] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. But but that's the thing. You need the the gold plating could just scratch and wear off, but you need you need, like, full gold. You know? Right. Three three centimeters thick or something. That'd be a bit that would be an expensive casket.
[01:36:43] Cole McCormick:
Yeah. You need, like, what's the thing from the bible? You need, like, a what's the thing from Indiana Jones? The, the, you know, I'm talking about the first Indiana Jones, the, the 10 commandments, the thing that's the holding the 10 commandments. You need, like, a Yeah. I can't remember. I forget the name. Damn it. Well, no no wonder I'm not Christian anymore. But, like, I remember, like, that thing, the thing that holds the 10 commandments, that's, like, it's, like, thick and, like, there's, like, gold in it. There's a lot of gold on that. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You need something like that. That's funny, man. Well, hey, Kyron. Dude, thanks for doing this, man.
I think this is helpful. I mean, this has been helpful for me. You know, just, like, trying to talking to someone who's actually gone through it is so much so much more real than talking to someone who's just sympathetic about
[01:37:38] Kyrin Down:
it. I think we're on this the the same time period as well, you know. We went went through a very similar thing.
[01:37:43] Cole McCormick:
That's so surreal. Right? Like, what do you think about that? Like, last question. What do you think about us literally losing a parent three months apart? Like, that's gotta be crazy. Right? We're on the we're on different end of Earth. Like, how and we're somehow friends. We're somehow Yeah. That's somehow vibing. Let's and we're, like, we're connected through Bitcoin and podcasting two point o. Like, what is this?
[01:38:04] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. That's that's the most surreal part because, you know, people people die every day, and people lose their parents every day. But the the the kind of connection and then be able to, you know, me being there in in The US when when your dad passes is even even crazy. You know? Oh my god. Yeah. You were in The US, dude. Oh, that's so crazy. That was that was, you know, very, very kinda coincidental. Maybe it was meant to be. Then who knows? Maybe we're we've maybe that's part of the reason we connected. We felt similar vibes from each other and Yeah. You know, may and, who knows? Maybe it's just a coincidence.
[01:38:41] Cole McCormick:
There's no way it's a coincidence. I don't believe in that. There's no way there's no way we have life changing experiences, and we just and, like, there's no reason for that? Like, no. Come on. I don't believe that.
[01:38:53] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I'm I'm glad look. In terms of timing,
[01:39:00] Cole McCormick:
I'm I'm not glad it happened, but No. No. You have great timing on our part. Great timing. Like Yeah. Thanks, dad.
[01:39:09] Kyrin Down:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Bob. Appreciate that.
[01:39:12] Cole McCormick:
That's awesome, dude. Well, dude, yeah. Maybe we should just wrap this up. You do a podcast every weekend. Right? Like, what's, I guess we'll just do a plug for your podcast, and then we can get out of here, man. When do you do your podcast?
[01:39:25] Kyrin Down:
Yep. So 9AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Sunday with my friend Juan, who I've mentioned a couple times. It's it's similar similar kind of topics, to be honest. Like, we'll we'll dive into, like, philosophy. We'll dive into self development, dive into technology, things like that. So, yeah, those those very similar to to kinda how we just recorded now. So we we'll have have a bit of a discussion on a topic. There's a topic, but, not, not at set terms of, like, this is what we're gonna talk about exactly and things like that. And, yeah, I do I do the book reviews as well every, Wednesday, 11AM straight Eastern standard time. So if you ever feel like joining in live, jump in, mere models conversations, mere mortals book reviews.
[01:40:15] Cole McCormick:
Awesome. Well, Karen, thank you for being here. Thank you for being on America Plus. It's been a pleasure, and I think I firmly believe this has to help at least one person. So thank you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on call. Appreciate it.
Introduction and Purpose
The Grieving Process
Dreams and Memories
Coping with Long-Term Illness
Spiritual Experiences and Connections
Self-Destructive Behaviors
Messages and Realizations
Dealing with Anger
Stages of Grief
Sharing and Support
Expectations and Relationships
Travel and New Environments
Feeling Trapped and Finding Freedom
Experiencing Death Firsthand
Celebration of Life and Closure
Reflections on Burial Practices
Final Thoughts and Gratitude
