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Cole speaks with Emily Hughes, the co-founder of the Bitcoin board game "BLOCKHUNTERS". Emily shares her journey of creating a board game that combines the excitement of Monopoly with the intricacies of Bitcoin. The conversation delves into Emily's inspiration, her collaboration with co-creator Arnold Hubach, and the challenges they faced in bringing the game to life. Emily also opens up about her personal journey with mental health and how psychedelics played a transformative role in her life. She discusses her experiences with psilocybin and BUFO, and how these substances helped her process emotions and find a deeper connection to spirituality.

BLOCKHUNTERS Game
Emily:
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Cole:
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[00:00:00] Unknown:

I'm telling y'all right now, this one is a banger.   What's up, everyone? It's America Plus. I'm your host, McCormick. It's another week. Another episode. What's going on, everybody? Happy to be here. It's Sunday, January 26,   10 13  

[00:00:15] Emily Hughes:

AM. What's up, people? What's up, my people?   What's going on, my boys?  

[00:00:21] Unknown:

It's a beautiful day to be alive, guys. We got I have a phenomenal episode for you today.   It's a conversation,   semi conversation, semi interview   with a person, a cofounder   of something that I think is really interesting.   This woman, her name is Emily,   Emily Hughes,   and she made a Bitcoin   board game. Okay?   And, it it's almost like monopoly,   but it's for Bitcoin. You know? Like, you gotta the whole goal of the game is to get as much Bitcoin as possible.   And,   her and I, we go into it. We talk about, like, what inspired her, how she got it produced,   who was she working with.  

It's her and this other guy that that she met up with. She's like a digital nomad. She travels around a lot. And then she met this guy with this idea, and she was like, I like that idea. We should do that together. So it's like just a really cool   story.   And,   yeah. I hope you enjoy it. Before I get into that though, just give me, like, 90 more seconds. I wanna get into the value for value section.   I just wanna I I don't wanna I don't want there to be any interruptions for the conversation.   So, just so you know, America Plus is a value for value show.   This entire operation is ran by listener donations through multiple ways,   time, talent, and treasure. If you have any suggestions on who I should talk to, please send them my way, DM me,   talent.  

If you have any if you wanna provide anything, if you wanna give me some little, like, jingles, please do so. I'm I'm looking for new jingles for the show.   And if you wanna,   just help out in any way, help me with the website, help me build my node. I need Bitcoin people to help me build my node.   You can do that as well.   And the last thing is Treasure. That's through PayPal. America Plus is an official PayPal if you wanna give some dollar dollar runies.   And then, I also prefer SATS within the fountain dot f m app, y'all. Go to value for value dot info for more info, then download the fountain dot f m app. It's the best way to support the show. Fountain's my favorite modern podcasting app right now. There's, like, a there's, like, a whole suite of others, but I just like fountain because I think it's simple. And I'm gonna be reading, I I I have one boostagram here from last week.   This boostagram comes in from atpiaz,   my boy. What up, piaz? He sends in a wonderful   100 satoshis,   and he has to say,   thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. This has happened in the past. Hang on. Wrong button.  

Boost. Boosting is loving. Thank you so much, Piaz. And then, we got another one. It wasn't a boostagram, but this other gentleman named Satan Satz was streaming in some satoshis, and he streamed in, like, 168.   He even gave me more. He zapped me on Noster. So thank you, Satan Satz, for that. Love you. Because, basically,   you put Bitcoin with anything, and all of a sudden, that is more efficient. Follow me on Noster. I think this video is gonna be up on Noster, but the video is also up on YouTube as well. So I'm gonna do my best to put this out everywhere. Okay? But you're listening to the audio, so enjoy the audio.   And yeah. Stick around for the end of the show as well. I'll be playing a song like I usually do, and the artist will be getting 90% of that satoshi donation.  

So, yeah. Without that with all that folks,   enjoy the conversation   between me and Emily Hughes.   Start hitting record, but, yeah,   no pressure here. We can just start casually, not casually. It's super cool to meet you. Likewise.   Yeah. So I I listened to you on the,   on the plug chain radio, and I just thought thought that was, like, a really cool conversation. I just started listening to that,   and those guys are pretty cool. I like QW.   I like Google. Those are fun guys.   So, yeah, just, like, what got you, what got you on that show? Like, how do they  

[00:04:06] Emily Hughes:

get into the Bitcoin board game? Like, how do they find find you out? I've been trying to promote it a little bit more. I've been trying to be more   active,   I guess, on on,   just, you know, letting people know that the game is is right. Because if we've been talking about it forever, it's like we've been working on it for such a long time that I don't   I think a lot of people forgot, and then it like, it's it's real now. It's here. So,   yeah, I think they must have seen that and, sent me a message, and, yeah, I'd   love to talk about it.  



[00:04:39] Unknown:

Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. When I heard about it,   it's just like a wild concept, just the whole idea of, like, a Bitcoin board game. Like, it sounds silly,   but it sounds so epic at the same time.   Like, is this even real? This has to be not real, and then it was real.  

[00:04:55] Emily Hughes:

Yeah.  

[00:04:56] Unknown:

So I'm just into it. Like, that's just, like it's just very innovative. Like, I just thought it was purely innovative.   As somebody Are you attracted to that? Like, are you are you, like, a missed innovation?  

[00:05:09] Emily Hughes:

I wouldn't I wouldn't say that. No. I think,   so the game was cocreated with, Arnold Houbach, and he had the concept for the game, as you probably know,   from,   the conversation on, blockchain.   But he   had the concept already.   And I think   the reason that it got to the level that it got when I   we we teamed up is because I'm   I'm not that like, I'm not the technical Bitcoiner. I want to understand   Bitcoin   well enough so that I can trust it, but I'm not a a you know, I'll never be like a   an expert or, like, a developer   on the technology behind Bitcoin. So, like, to   lay out the technology obviously, the technology itself itself is what's innovative. So, like, how do we just, like,   convert that to, like, a board game so people like me, people who, you know,   are not dumb, but, you know, maybe more of a visual learner or tactile learner, I want to, like like, wrap my head around mining,   by reaching my hand into a bag and picking out numbers and then increasing my hash rate by getting to pick up more numbers or less numbers, and, like, that kinda makes things, like, click.  

Mhmm. Just the the   innovation is the technology itself. It's just how do we,   make it   easier for people to wrap their head around because it is pretty abstract.  

[00:06:38] Unknown:

Yeah. I'm happy you said that because I'm, like, not a technical person either. So, like, I'm an I'm an emotional Bitcoiner. I'm not a technical Bitcoiner.   I'm just in it for, you know, just the vibes, the memes, and the money.   You know? Yeah.   So it's, and it's something that, like, technical people don't even talk about. Like, they don't even talk about,   some people wanna talk about the culture. Some people wanna talk about the monetary policy, but, like, what are, like, the fundamentals?   You know? It's like that's, like, the important thing to think about Bitcoin and   having something where you can, like like, it's almost, like, it's as good as Monopoly almost, this concept of a Bitcoin board game. Because it's, like, you play Monopoly and you sort of have a good understanding of how   capitalism works, how, like, buying and selling works, and, like, there's winners and there's losers. And it's, like, damn. It's, like and then you can, like, pretty cleanly sort of cleanly apply that to real life. Yeah. And so it's,   I I see this as, like,  

[00:07:36] Emily Hughes:

the Bitcoin monopoly almost. That you mentioned monopoly because, like, if you I think it says in the rule book and also, like, if you run out of like, if you lose your monopoly money,   you can buy more. And I think it says in the rule book, like, you can you can cut it out and and print more   of it,   which which you can't do in our game. We only have a set amount of these, like, little wooden Bitcoins, and and if you lose them, we're we're never gonna replace them for you. That's you know?   You know what I mean? But, yeah, it's   we we need something like a like a,   an analogy   for Bitcoin.  



[00:08:15] Unknown:

Yeah. Just something real. Right? I I didn't know I I I've never read the monopoly game rules, so that's interesting. They incentivize   inflation.  

[00:08:22] Emily Hughes:

Don't think That's great. On that, but I know you can buy replacement  

[00:08:25] Unknown:

money. Yeah. Yep. It's all monopoly money. Right? Yeah. It's all fake. Exactly.   That's cool, though.   I should say thank you for coming on here. Thank you for being willing to to come on and talk to me. This is really cool. Thanks for having   me. Yeah.   So I guess,   yeah, just just retell the story of, like, how you got into the Bitcoin board game. What inspired you to even get to even, like, do something like this?  

[00:08:53] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. So I was traveling,   pretty much traveling   8 months of the year working remotely as a graphic designer   and,   you know, dealing with the annoyances   of   being paid in a different currency.   You know, I always had this, like, deep disdain for banks   my whole life, but   I never   but, like, I I didn't have any, like, like, that that was kinda where that ended. And I was aware of Bitcoin. I had a little Bitcoin on an exchange.   I always had the intention of learning more about it. I knew there was something there, but I I was distracted.   So then I met, I crossed paths with Arnold   and,   took his Skillshare and kind of that, like, blew my mind open. And he's like, I have this game,   that I've been working on for for,   at that point, he had abandoned it, like, I think 2 years prior,   give or take. I   can never remember the timeline, but, he   had abandoned it. And he's like,   it's pretty much like, I have the concept of the game, but, like, it really I don't know how to design it. I don't know how to go forward from here.  

And   if you wanna take it, like like it's like there might be something there. If you wanna take it and, you know, you can have it. And I was like   I was not confident at all that I could do that, number 1. And I was like, no. Let's let's work on it together because we we vibe really well. And, like, we   to this day, he's probably my my closest friend.   So we decided to take it on together.   We   I think it was really kick started with, the Geyser campaign.   We went to the Philippines. We were visiting Bitcoin Island in the Philippines, the circular Bitcoin economy there, and   one of the guys, Bill, mentioned, like, oh, you guys should do a Geyser campaign. And and we did that, and we ended up getting a grant as well. So then when we had the the little bit of money,   to, like, actually, like, do this, that's kind of when it when it we took it seriously and and really   really put our minds to it.  

Yeah.  

[00:11:04] Unknown:

That's cool. Yeah.   I remember, the thing that struck me most during the plug chain talk was, your journey to China and, like, getting to see, like, the manufacturing.  

[00:11:16] Emily Hughes:

What was that like? Is that, like, a normal process for people making board games? Like, what was going to China like? I I'm not I don't think it's a normal process. Honestly, I probably didn't have to do that, but I happened to be in Japan and wanting to go to the,   Seoul Bitcoin Seoul,   conference, and I'm like, I have these days. You know? I'm on the right side of the world for this.   Let me let me go in person and and you know? Because we had some things to sort out. I wanted to see it. I wanted to touch it. I had the prototype. I had feedback for them. Like,   just because I was there, I was like, you know, let's let's do this. So   it was   I honestly feel like after doing that because   yes. I'm I'm a traveler. I travel I travel a lot, but I always have Google Maps. You know? I always have Google Translate. China is probably the only country   where you where you don't have that.  

Interesting. You gotta use some Chinese thing? But but yeah. Like like, you you can't you can't use   the the Internet there. You can't Google Translate there.   So it was it was definitely like an advanced level of travel for sure. But, I was,   yeah, I was just, like, on the train   to the factory, which was about an hour or so outside of Shanghai, just kind of like, oh my gosh. I can't believe   can't believe I'm really here. I can't believe I'm really doing this. And then I'm when I got to the factory, it ended up being,   like, a a woman owned like, a female owned business, and it was, like, all these, like, really   badass, like, women working there.  

The woman, like, started the company 10 years ago. I I they took me out to lunch, and they and they they were, you know, telling me all about their lives. And and,   like like, it was just a really cool experience. And, everything we we we dealt with everything so efficiently because I was there. Like, what would have been emails back and forth for quite a while, which was just, you know, very clearly communicated,   within a couple hours there. And,   it was   a very trippy, cool experience, and I would recommend it.  

[00:13:25] Unknown:

That's wild. You never hear about the female entrepreneur  

[00:13:28] Emily Hughes:

in China. Yeah. I didn't expect it.   They they were so sweet, so cool.  

[00:13:36] Unknown:

She had been doing that for, like, 10 years? Like, she had been making   board games? Is that what she does? Yeah. They they  

[00:13:42] Emily Hughes:

only make board games and and, like, cards and and, you know, card games.   Wow. But, yeah, that that was her bread and butter, and then she was very successful and yeah. Really, really cool dating. So cool. Yeah.  

[00:13:55] Unknown:

It makes me laugh because, like, you just don't you don't hear anything about that. Like, in America, if we're gonna make a board game, it's gonna be, like, some machine or it's gonna be some, like, some, like, print. Just printed, you know, or some I I that's just how I would imagine it. You never hear about, like, oh, this woman has been doing this for a decade. That's so interesting. Well, but just she toured me, like, throughout their whole factory. They had they, like of course, there was, like, a big printing press and all and all of these things, but but, like, they were all there. Like, they were all working for her. She had the system. It it was it was it was a very well oiled machine. You know? It was it was it was really cool to see.   Yeah.  

That's cool. Yeah. My mom, she has been running a business for a long time, so sort of sympathetic to that. Like, I get that. I understand that. That's really cool. Yeah.   So China was cool. Like, would you go back?  

[00:14:44] Emily Hughes:

I would. I think I I saw so little of it. I like to travel slow if I can,   and, you know, I was only there for a few days. So, just there for, you know, get him get out and move on.   But I realized when I was there, I was like, oh, I could really stay here longer, explore, see more like like, you know, see more in the north as well. Like, I don't know. There I was never that interested   in   visiting China   until   I went there. I went through the   getting a visa for China is actually a bit annoying. That's that's the downside.   But,   yeah, I I'd go back in a heartbeat.  

Lots more to see.  

[00:15:21] Unknown:

Yeah. I just wanna, like, find someone who knows, like, that Chinese witch magic. Yeah. I forgot it.   Heal me from any future issue. Yes. Yes.   That's really cool.   Yeah. You travel a lot. So you're, like, a digital nomad. Like, what does that even mean? Like, what do you mean?  

[00:15:40] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that term. It's a bit it's a bit silly, but it is what it is, I guess.   I've also heard derogatory. Sorry?   It it seems it seems a bit offensive. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, like, a, like, people picture a certain person when they think of that. I've also heard the term,   oh, what is it,   locationally   fluid.  

[00:16:01] Unknown:

That's even worse.  

[00:16:02] Emily Hughes:

Way worse. And   the homeless by choice, that that's for sure is one. But, yeah. That's more effective.   Yeah.   I work   remotely.   I travel. That's that's what it is.  

[00:16:16] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. You're a person on a train. Yeah. Yeah.   That's really cool, though. What like, why what, like, interested you in, like, just doing anything like that and just, like, traveling a lot, like, working   abroad or remotely? Like, what even  

[00:16:31] Emily Hughes:

got you thinking about that? This was so yeah. And, like, a lot of people went through this. You know, there's certainly people who were doing it before COVID, but COVID sparked this shift in in a lot of people. And that that's what it was for me. So   I was working I was living in   Toronto. I was   basically rent broke, like, you know, working in house at a company, you know,   9 to 5 commuting for years.   And then when COVID   my work environment was very toxic. They had no respect for anybody's time. It was it was   it   was not my favorite place to work,   and I left. And, like, literally a week later or something, the lockdowns   happened.  

And   I flew home to   Newfoundland, where I am right now. And   for what I was thinking would be about a month until, like, you know, COVID blew over and, you know, things were back to normal. But a year passed, and,   I was flying back to, like, pick up my stuff, ship it all home,   and   start over. And when I started over, I realized, like, okay. So I'm working for myself now.   There's no need for me to be   anywhere. Like, I might as well travel the world if I'm if I'm working. Like, I could be here at my desk, or I could be at a desk in Greece,   which is where I went first. And,   I guess I'm kind of leaving out the whole   the whole year of of, like, figuring this out,   the, the psychedelics  

[00:18:07] Unknown:

that helped me get here, the time to reflect. Oh my god. Yes. Please go into that. Was that your wait. You you you were taking psychedelics during COVID?  

[00:18:17] Emily Hughes:

Not really. I took   yes and no. I took I did a macro dose of psychedelics   during COVID.   Dope. Yeah. And then a and then I took another macro dose   maybe less than a year later, like a little follow-up.  

[00:18:33] Unknown:

And   Was that your first time? It was.  

[00:18:38] Emily Hughes:

Oh, Yeah. Kind of. Yes.   So I   to, like, back up a little bit, I I was very   mentally ill during my   twenties. I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was 20, which is something very hereditary in my family.   I was taking a lot of medications.   The first time I ever took mushrooms, I was also on an antipsychotic, so, like, nothing happened. So that's why I say yes and no to that.   Right.   But I but I was I was very severely   I was not well,   and   I   was smoking weed. I was I was taking all these different prescriptions, going to a lot of therapy. I was I was hospitalized at one point as an inpatient for, like, almost a month. Like, I I was not I was not well,   and I was smoking weed   daily,   constantly,   all the   time.  

Just a just a bit of a mess. But I but I was always able to you know, I I I scraped by through school. I was always able to hold a job.   You know? I knew I wasn't   thriving. I knew I wasn't   reaching my full potential. I knew I wasn't happy.   But, like, just because, like, oh, you can hold a job,   like like, we're not gonna change anything about this protocol. Keep taking the things you're taking. Keep you you know, like, you're you're if you're not suicidal, you're not a threat to others, and and you can, like, you know,   contribute to society,   pay your taxes,   you know,   that's it. That's the best we can we can, expect,  

[00:20:16] Unknown:

which So they were giving you nothing?  

[00:20:19] Emily Hughes:

I mean, they're they're right with me. So   I,   so when I came home,   I I went to this   well, I I just I had this, like   I started to heal, and I had this   intuition that I needed to try psychedelics, but I knew I couldn't take them when I was on lithium.   Very dangerous.   And I also know from years of being told this and also from some personal experience that,   bipolar people, when they   find, you know, that equilibrium,   have this tendency to say, well, I don't need my meds anymore.   I'm gonna come off them. And they come off of them and then things go haywire again.   I think   there was, like, some, like, deeper message in me that was like, no. This is this is really diff like, I was able to, like   I don't really have the language for it, but it was like a deeper knowing that but I was like, no. Really. It's really time   to come off of this.  

And so   I tapered off of it in the in   the the most responsible way I think I could   and   and entered the macro dose of psilocybin   and have not had any issues since. I haven't   needed medication   since,   in all these years.   I haven't had any bipolar episodes.   You know, I I still, you know, feel the ebbs and flows of life, but it's within the   the regular,   you know, human experience, I think. I mean, maybe sometimes I feel things more deeply, but it's never,   it's not it's not disruptive to my life anymore. I don't really identify as having   bipolar disorder   anymore.  

And that that's in largely because of I'm not saying, like, you know, go take a bunch of mushrooms and you'll be cured of your bipolar disorder. This was there was a lot of, like, years of, like, you know, rewiring my,   neuropathways   before all of this and and and so many things. And it's it's a individual journey for everyone, but but I I do,   I am truly   not somebody who identifies as having bipolar disorder anymore.  

[00:22:36] Unknown:

Yeah. No. That's super cool. So that was, like, 2020 when you had, like, the transformative   experience.  

[00:22:41] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. I think so. 2020,   2021.  

[00:22:44] Unknown:

That's so cool.   Yeah. I I hear that, and,   it's like I relate to you in, like, 2 different eras in my life because, like, I was going through a similar thing.   My first, mushroom experience was in 2017,   And then, like, now I'm also, like, relating to you in, like, this current era because, like, I'm working at a restaurant. I'm like, oh, yeah. They don't respect anyone's time.   These people suck. These people don't care. Even though, like, they're nice people. You know? It's just, like, it's a corporate thing. Yeah. And   I remember so my my my,   if I could share my story. Like, in 2017, I was going through   I was, like, 2 years out of high school, but I was, like, depressed,   and I was just, like, not   knowing where my life was. And I had gone through, like, a falling out with, like, a like, a multiple friend groups, like, not just, like, graduating high school and, like, you know, just, like, like,   gradually losing touch with those people. But I grew up in church, and I lost all my contacts in church, and there was, like, a whole thing. And, like,   pretty much, like, everything I grew up with was, like, not   there anymore.  

And I was delivering pizza, and,   you know, if you ever work in a kitchen,   maybe that's why I'm in a kitchen now. The drug culture   is thriving   in all kitchens.   And so a buddy of mine, he had mushrooms. He grew mushrooms, or he knew someone that had that had them, and I was like, hey, man. I really wanna do them, dude. Like, it sounds really cool. And I started listening to Joe Rogan, and, like, you know, that it was like this is like the arrow when, like, Joe Rogan couldn't shut up about mushrooms and Yeah. He's and that was also when I first started listening to podcasts in general as well. I was like, maybe I should do this. Maybe I can do that.   And I just remember just you know, I saw, like, a my first time I saw, like, a grid of lights, that was, like, what happened to me. Like, I was just I was in my backyard. I did them alone. I'm not sure what your experience was, but I'm insane. I've always   and people always think that's weird, right, if you tell that story? They do. I feel sadist that way.  

Yes. That's a very if if I'm, like, with some and now I've been, like, around a sober person,   but I've never, like, been, like, 2 people on mushrooms at the same time.   That sounds really   like, I don't know how I could handle that, like, emotionally.  

[00:24:56] Emily Hughes:

I think it would it would have to be a smaller dose.   I I have Yeah. It'd have to be a smaller dose. Smaller doses.  

[00:25:02] Unknown:

Yeah. Very small. They're under 1 gram, maybe 2 grams.   But, yeah, but I I I feel the same way about just, like, the whole life change. Because after that happened, it was like it I remember it was in May 2017.   I had, like, gained weight. Right? And then I was like   along with, like, seeing, like, this, like, vision of, like, of the grid of lights,   I had this division of,   like, a a,   a gardening,   ladle, like a gardening I'm not even sure what to call it. Just like that classic spout gardening spout.   And I saw water   pouring over, like, parts of my body, like like intestines and, like, heart and, like, just like the inside of me was, like, being   watered. And this message of   water your body,   feed your body,   grow your body,   that was, like, that was, like, a big thing in that moment. And then I I had this, like, spark, and it was, like, from that day on, I was like, we're going hard keto. We're swimming every day. We're go we're doing this.  

And I lost, like, a ton of weight, within, like, 6 months, and then I and then and then I moved up to LA in that same year. So   I feel that, like, transformative thing that you went through. I really   I really think that's cool. I think that's really powerful.   Well, perfect. And I also so do you still smoke weed, or have you stopped? I've stopped.  

[00:26:23] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. I'm, I'm not a you said same?  

[00:26:26] Unknown:

Yeah. I used to smoke every single day.   Like, it's beginning in, like, 2016,   and it's only in this last year when I, like, I had the instinct. I'm like, I need to not do this. Weed is such an interesting one because I I know  

[00:26:39] Emily Hughes:

I know it helps people, and I know I I don't believe it should be illegal, obviously.   However,   the vast majority   of people like, I I could be wrong, but I it is my   from my experience of, like, the vast majority of people who are smoking weed every day   are not operating at their highest potential.   Yeah. They're not healthy. Yeah. And that's just that is what it is. And and for me, I was I was I I don't know if you had any trouble quitting, but I tried to quit for years before I could actually succeed. Like, I was I was   truly addicted.  

They say weed is not addictive. That is that is simply   not true.   It's Mhmm. Use anything that you you take into your body, you're you're you're experiencing some,   discomfort.   You do something, it changes your brain chemistry to make you feel better, you're going to be it's addictive, like, no matter what it is. So,   yeah, that it it was   really, really hard to quit.   And  

[00:27:42] Unknown:

it it's When was that? Like, what year?  

[00:27:45] Emily Hughes:

When did I successfully   quit?   It was actually kind of because I I had to come home for the,   I was looking for my like, a lot harder to quit when you're living on your own, like, with a dispensary down the street, and then during COVID, they'll, like, deliver to your door.   Right. Yeah. So when I moved when I moved back,   with my parents,   for that, like, 1 month,   that was that was I took that as, like, a fresh start to be like, okay.  

[00:28:12] Unknown:

Mhmm.   That's really cool. Yeah. I,   during COVID,   in, like, 2021,   I started so first of all, I was unemployed for, like, a year and a half during COVID, and then I got a job at a dispensary out here in LA.   And so that was, like,   you know, I in that era, I was, like   like, weed is gonna help everyone. I don't care if you have COVID. Like, you can still smoke even though   you're sick, like, regardless of any opinion on COVID. Like, it's okay. You can still do it. And I was, like, super gung ho on, on, like, this can help people or, like, it's one of the ways that that that people can get help. And   and and it was a cool experience working there because I was at a bigger shop, so they had a, like, a really large selection, a lot of different products, not just flower, not just the normal vapes and stuff.  

So people were coming in.   I was,   with, like, a a good amount of, like, older people. It's in   the the shop is in, like, a more, like, affluent area as well. So you would have people from all different ranges, like, people coming in from work and people just, like like like, retired, rich, old people are are coming in for, like, pain and trying to figure out   how to manage their their muscle pain and stuff. So I would recommend a cream. I would recommend   there's, like, bath salts with THC,   or or the flower or the vape. You know? And so, like, it was a very it was a good mix of, like, selling different things to different people.   But during that,   I definitely saw how,   like, you know, you're seeing the same people come in every day   or every 2 days, and it's like,   you know, like, I get that you need more, but   it's just a routine now. Like, for my just for me seeing them, I was like, you're really just like, this is just another drug. Yeah. And and then every day,   it's so like, you're throughout a day, you might meet, like, you know, 20 people to, like, 20 guests, and, like, you're gonna have, like, 15 conversations of   drugs suck or something like that. Like like,   this drug is bad. These bills are no good.  

Here's your drugs. Like, it's just weird how we, like, put a pedestal on some drugs and different drugs,   and then, and psychedelics are so interesting because   there's not that feeling of needing to go back to it. Yeah.   I'm not sure if you've, like, had that instinct at all, Bart. When the last time you you did mushrooms or was it mushrooms or what was it?  

[00:30:32] Emily Hughes:

So the the big life changing thing was mushrooms,   but then   I I've also done Ayahuasca and BUFO and,   since then. Yeah. And the most profound one for sure has been,   aside from that very first mushroom trip, which was very important   for me,   Nothing ever compares to the BUFO   that I that I did.  

[00:31:00] Unknown:

What about the BUFO? I've never heard of that. BUFO is like it's like  

[00:31:04] Emily Hughes:

frog   venom.  

[00:31:07] Unknown:

It's Oh, did you oh, okay. You didn't lick a frog, but you had the venom. You smoke it.  

[00:31:13] Emily Hughes:

And it,   this was actually at at noster Costa Rica. You know, the ambassador conference?  

[00:31:20] Unknown:

That's the In coast Go again.  

[00:31:23] Emily Hughes:

I I did did it there. So I paid with Bitcoin, which was very cool. Gotcha.   I don't even wanna think how much I paid in hindsight. Worth every penny, honestly, because it was it was but   I digress. So you you smoke it, and it's it's supposed to be it it's DMT,   and it's it's very short lasting. Like, it,   it's supposed to last maximum 30 minutes. Could be as as short as 5,   but 10 times stronger than Ayahuasca, they say. So I'm like,   I really wanted to try it. And,   it's kinda weird because,   the day before   my grandmother died,   and I and I couldn't go to the funeral   because I was   in Costa Rica.  

And I Oh. I just I I I just couldn't nobody was gonna pay for my flight, and I Right. It was what it was. And,   I'm thinking, like, you know, set and setting are very important. You know, maybe you shouldn't, you know, if you've lost a   but,   I did it anyway, and   I learned   a very, like  

[00:32:34] Unknown:

it's one of those things that's, like, hard to put into words, but I'm gonna try. Okay. Now take your time. Do whatever. Yeah. Please. Because I I I think I'd I got a story as well. I got a death story as well. Go ahead. I can't yeah. Death is a is a whole  

[00:32:47] Emily Hughes:

other topic of of   a a psychedelic experience,   it seems.   So,   I'm   in this ceremony, and I'm, like,   kinda second guessing. Like, should I be doing this at all? And I'm like, no. I'm gonna do it. So   the first time I I do it,   I get this, like,   this, like, fear because because I have this, like we all have this   internal narrative, and mine is mine is very strong, overthinker. Maybe it's the ego. Whatever it is,   it's very present. And,   my first thought is like   my first thought is like, I'm gonna pee myself.   And so I looked at the guy. I was like and I was like, I'm gonna pee myself.   And he's like he's like, okay. And I'm like,   well, and then I'm like and then I'm like, then maybe I think I'm starting to feel nauseous. So I'm like, I I think I'm gonna throw up. And he's like, that's okay. And I'm like,   where should I throw up? And he's like, I'll get you a bucket.  

But I wasn't gonna throw up nor was I going to pee myself. Neither of those things happened. I was just, like,   looking for   things like, my body I focused on on these things instead of just surrendering   to it Mhmm. Which is what he was trying to say by, like, it doesn't matter. Like, pee yourself if you're gonna pee yourself. Like, who cares?   Anyway, I didn't throw up. I didn't pee myself, but   I that took me out of it, and,   it didn't work.   I I had no I had no psychedelic experience. So the whole ceremony happens. They're doing a few people at a time. So I was,   I had to wait, like, a a full two more hours, till the end of the ceremony for everybody to have their turn, and people are having all these crazy experiences. They're screaming. I'm like, all these things. And I'm just like, man, it didn't it didn't work for me.  

And at the very end of the ceremony, the guy   came back, and he was like, hey. I know it didn't work for you. Do you, like, do you wanna try again? I was like, yes. And everybody else had cleaned up. Like, everything was gone. He brought me outside with, like, a old dirty yoga mat. Like, it was over. Everyone was leaving. And, we did it again, and this time,   like, without the pressure and with the 2 hours of, like,   like, thinking about this, I was able to surrender.   And,   that, like, ability to surrender is, like, even though that's not part of the the experience itself, was probably   as important as the experience itself because it was the first time in my life I ever truly   surrendered. So,   first, it was like, oh, I'm gonna pee myself. Who cares? And I didn't.  

Then but then I also had this, like, flash of, like, fear where it was like,   I'm going to die.   No. First no. Sorry. First, it was like, I can't see anything.   I'm blind. And then I was like, oh, it doesn't matter. And then I had this flash of, like, pure, like, dread. Like, I'm going to die. Like, my parents are going to get, like, a like, a a notice that their daughter died in Costa Rica doing, like, BUFO.   And then,   like, as quickly as that came, I was   like, it doesn't matter. But, like, truly,   it, like Mhmm. Didn't matter.   And then, like, nothing nothing that I think about that that that occupies my mind   matters.  

So that way   I'm not even, like, explaining it as, like like, a like, as as, like, a deeper knowing. Because, like, you know that doesn't matter, like,   intellectually below that, but, like, deep deep down and, like, my own death didn't matter.   I was just ready to die at that point.   And then it was really, really short, but, like, all of my   ancestors   somehow,   who I don't even know what they look like, so I think I I I don't know what I'm picturing here when I say this, but, like, all of these, like,   people   that were part of my lineage somehow were there, like my maternal grandfather who I've never met or, like, an aunt that I've never met and I don't I've never seen them in in real life but, like, they were all there.  

Like, it was just   it was unlike I was like, this is a really part of like, a really important part of the human experience and everybody should be able to experience this. And I felt so grateful and and and, like,   clear. And, like, years of tension melted off my body. To this day, I've I've never I've I've never felt so, like, calm and relaxed. And,   it just, like, allowed a lot of the bullshit to, like, melt   away. And then from then on, for for a long period of time, I was very focused. I was like, okay.   This is kinda where I developed, like,   the first, like, inklings of, like, maybe I only wanna work in Bitcoin.  

Maybe I only wanna contribute in ways that are, like, actually   important to me and, like, what I've really truly believe is, like,   contributing to the world. It took me some time to get there, of course. I can't just   Mhmm. Go there. But,   yeah, sorry that was a a long story.  

[00:37:51] Unknown:

I'm listening to every word, but I think that's so interesting. It's cool that you had, you connected to some   aspects of your past. Like, you're, like, listening to it must be surreal to, like, know that there's, like,   people who are related to you in a different realm Yeah. And, like, looking at you and, like, loving you and Yeah. Caring for you. Like, that's, like, intense. Yeah.  

[00:38:13] Emily Hughes:

It's like if if time isn't,   I saw something the other day. It was like your grandmother's prayers are still working for you.   Woah. Yeah. If time isn't, you know, the way we experience it, if that's not the way it really is,   then, yeah, your grandmother's prayers are still   are still working for you. Like, it's it's kinda crazy.  

[00:38:35] Unknown:

It's like they're still being spoken. It's like there's, like, the prayers, like, a it it's it's an infinite echo Yeah. Almost like I've ever heard.   Well, there's that thing about   I don't even have, like, details on it, but there's that thing where,   they say, like, old radio   broadcast and, like, old TV broadcast. Like,   those radio waves are still, like, going out into the universe. You know what I mean? Have you ever heard of that? Like, there's, like No. Yeah. There there's, like, this thing where it's, like, the radio waves don't stop moving.   And so, like, whatever is being like, you could but, hypothetically, you if you're in space, you could tune   in to some channel   from, like, the fifties Oh. If you have that ability because it's still there.  

I think that's how that I I think that's accurate. Maybe I just made it up, but,  

[00:39:22] Emily Hughes:

I think it's I think it's aligned. I yeah. I I I don't know how these things work, but it's it's   really cool to think about.   If you think about time for too long, you just   Yeah. Boggles the brain a little bit.  

[00:39:36] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Time is   time is interesting. Time is, like, it's everything and then it's nothing at the same time. Yeah.  

[00:39:43] Emily Hughes:

I do actually see a theory that that Bitcoin is,   sent to us from the future. It's like a technology sent from the future to save humanity.  

[00:39:53] Unknown:

Yeah. I love that. I I think I that's a good idea. I'll for also I think there should be a movie about that. Yeah. Back to Bitcoin.  

[00:40:00] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. Exactly.   That'd be sick. Yeah. That's a fun one.  

[00:40:06] Unknown:

So that help so that experience,   helped you,   work through that grief? Is that sort of what what all that led to from your grandma?  

[00:40:16] Emily Hughes:

I wouldn't like, I I it helped me   I didn't even I didn't even have a   a chance to   let me rephrase. Like, I think all of the psychedelics psychedelic   experiences   I've had have helped me process my emotions because I don't   do that   as   quickly or naturally, I think, as   maybe   most people.   Mhmm. That very first mushroom trip that I that I spoke about earlier,   I talk about it as if it was like this, like, really crazy profound experience.   What it was in reality was I I was crying for   4, 5, 6, however long it was just like weeping   the entire Mhmm. My body ached. Like, my muscles, like, ached. Mhmm.  

I was just like like just like crying, crying, crying, crying.   And, like, grieving   this whole life that I built,   but, like, making but, like, somehow making space for   something new.   So,   yeah, I think   all of the psychedelics   experiences that I've had,   at least for me, have   had,   have been a way to process emotions that I don't haven't quite figured out,   how to do that.  

[00:41:42] Unknown:

Yeah. Other things. Yeah. Like, they help you more than when you're sober? Like, you has you still have, like, a hard time moving through that? Yeah. I I think know that people Yeah.   No. I don't know. I I think that makes sense because, like, that's just the journey. Yeah.   I've been reading some stuff about, like, how life, like,   life on Earth is just like it's like emotional lessons for your soul to learn. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, whatever issue you're having, that's just a part of   a part of it. Yeah. So I think you're   I I don't think you're lost, and I don't think you're, like, doing anything wrong. I it sounds like you're just, like, on that   on that,   on that path. Yeah.  

Yeah. So the last time I did mushrooms was   and I've only done mushrooms. I haven't done anything else. I've had friends who offered me LSD. I'm like, I don't know if I can do 12 hours. Mhmm.   I'm a I'm a 5 hour guy. Yeah. I feel that. I know.   The last time I did them was,   I think it was, like, August 2023.   My dad got diagnosed with cancer, and so that was, like, a way for me to   just, like, prepare myself   for, you know, what turned out to be the inevitable.   He passed away,   like, last August, like, almost 6 months ago now. Oh, I'm sorry.   So no. It's all good now. I mean, it's sort of good. I mean but I've been, what what I was gonna say is, like, that mushroom experience, like,   literally, like, might have been more impactful   than the first experience,   even though the first experience I had was so, like   like, I felt so hopeful   after the first experience, and then in this,   I I guess, like, the last experience,   I was able to, like, find some sort of peace and understanding   of   something that I didn't want to happen, but I was able to, like, come to terms on, like because the the message that came to me during that last experience was   this is my dad's path.  

And then I saw, like   I'm, like, I'm literally on, like, a sidewalk, like, in, like, a park, and then I see my dad. Like, he's, like, a few distance. He's a few yards away from me. He's literally on his own sidewalk.   I'm like, he's just walking. He's just walking down his path. And so, like, that was, like, a huge thing for me and, like and just going through the whole process of   of,   of the cancer,   and just seeing how he dealt with it. He dealt with it like a freaking boss and, like, you know, most of the last year, like, he was it was pretty normal until, like, the last   2 months, 3 months. You know, it was pretty   business as usual.  

Him and my mom were still running the company. He was still able to walk. He was still doing   we were doing things. We're going to LEGOLAND. We're going to amusement parks. And so it's like,   things were normal to a degree, and then I was able to just continue uh-oh.  

[00:44:38] Emily Hughes:

Blast you for a sec.  

[00:44:40] Unknown:

You're no. You're good. You're good. No. I get it. My stories are boring. It's okay.   The,   I was able to just, like, to just,   remember that message of, like, he's walking on his own path and, like,   even though it's, like, a sad moment,   like, I was it's able to the the psychedelics have helped me come to terms with,   like, this is how it should be. Yeah. Because, like, a lot of people,   when they experience anything negative in their life,   a lot of people wanna say, like, this should have never happened.   And it's, like, I I I always, like, am empathetic to that,   but, like, no one is in control   of that. You know? No one's in control of, like, what should happen.  

Yeah. Because, like because what should happen is you should always be healthy, and what should happen is you don't get hit by a car. What should happen is, like like, there's so many things that should be happening,   but you're just not in control of that. And so the psychedelics have helped me just accept,   what is in front of me, just accept what the truth is,   and,   to find some path of   of gratitude, find some way to,   find some peace, you know. I think that's been, like, the biggest thing, and, you know, people I think the conversations around psychedelics are a bit   like, they're still unhelpful.  

Even though so many people   have benefited from them, they're still   because when you listen to any podcast,   they're   it's always gonna be some doctor who's focusing on them, and they can't really talk about the incredible experiences. All they can talk about is the official research that whatever they're involved in,   and then people need a like, all you have is just, like, whatever   that person's research is or whatever that person's   field of work is, and it's like and then people wanna be, like,   like, they bring up all these,   statistics   about, like, how psychedelics help, but it's like it's not like   there's something is not working, and I'm I'm I'm not sure if   if the key is to,   make psychedelics legal and to just, like, have that go full fledged, but,   I I'm I'm in this weird thing where, like, I really support psychedelics, but because of my experience with weed and seeing how people just treated these other I think weed is sort of a psychedelic.  

Seeing how people treated these these other drugs, like, I'm just, like I don't know. I I I sorta just want mushrooms to be special. You know? Maybe I'm being a little selfish with that. But I don't think so. I don't think that's that's selfish at all. I think  

[00:47:14] Emily Hughes:

you want   I I think   they should be used in a way that that is,   contributing to, like, the the spiritual   sort of   development.   Mhmm. Person   taking them and not as, like not that there's anything wrong with, like, socially,   you know, enjoying them. It's just   yeah.   They they serve a very specific purpose with when taken with with intention.   Like, you're saying like, I I was just thinking about when you're,   telling me about that story with your dad. Like like,   there's such, like, big   ideas   that we need to, like, like, throughout our lives that we need to   grapple with or big emotions to move through or big   situations   that we need to accept   or surrender to, and they're just like psychedelics or psilocybin   in particular can be such   a helpful tool to do that. It's kind of a you wonder if if it was just to be made, like, you know, legal and acceptable if everybody would be getting that.  

Mhmm.  

[00:48:28] Unknown:

Yeah. Because I I don't know. I'm not sure, like, how many people are   intentional about crying about Right. About these things because that's really   I'm not sure if it's just, like, my personality or, like, my my EQ or, like but, like, I was   I I I knew I was, like, I need to do mushrooms, so I can just cry about this. Yeah. It was, like, similar to you, like, when I'm sober, it's like I   I can sort of process emotions,   but it's I do have, like, an inclination of, like,   of, like I don't know. Maybe it's, like, solving the problem or, like, being logical   about something. 100%. And it's, like,   I can identify the sadness, but then I I don't know. It's, like,   I can't feel that sadness. I'm, like, I need to just feel this. I need to just feel this. And, like and   that just helped me going through the whole   process because then when the moment happened,   I wasn't   afraid to be sad.  

You know? Like, I wasn't,   like, I'm like, you know, sad is sadness is sadness, but I wasn't, like, devastated and, like,   like like, embarrassed to feel this way or, like, I wasn't hopeless,   I guess.   I think that's really what it's been. And maybe that's also tied to my spiritual life. You know, my my family,   everyone in my family is Christian. So there is that side of, like,   just the Christian lore of, you know, heaven and   and, you know so   I begin in, like, a positive place of, like,   when you're dead, you're not really dead. And then now in my life,   I   am sort of still aligned with that, but from a different perspective,   and having just just working through that, you know, just   exploring the spirit realm. Wow. Yeah. Well,  

[00:50:09] Emily Hughes:

I think that,   as   Bitcoiners   I I know that that you we were saying that we weren't,   you know, technical   Bitcoiners.   There's a there's a really inter there's a lot of interesting conversations to be had around Bitcoin and spirituality.   And I think that's where the,   psychedelic people kind   of overlap,   as well.  

[00:50:35] Unknown:

Yeah. I was just thinking about that yesterday, actually. It's funny you bring that up. I was like, there has there's something about   decentralization   and spirituality.   Something about that. Because, like, the stuff I've been absorbing when it comes to, like, souls and stuff, I've been reading about souls.   And it's not even, like, a bit like, a specific, like, religion or, like, philosophy. It's, like, literally, like, information about souls.   You have like, every soul has free will,   but every soul is,   like, you know, like, directly of source, directly of   of God.  

And even though, like, you're always connected to that, you still have free will. Every soul has free will. Right. And I've always thought that was very interesting because, like, when you think of Bitcoin, it's like everyone is working within their own self interest. Yeah.   But they're working within the same   rules.   Yeah. And they're connected to the same network, and there's, like, an audit going on all the time. And that's almost like spiritually,   I'm me, personally, I'm always, like, trying to audit myself. My   ego. I'm trying to align myself with God and align my personality with my soul.  

You know, there's, like, a I think that's, like, a   there might be a connection between,   like, the 10 minute audit in Bitcoin   and meditating daily. Mhmm. There might be a connection there. I was just thinking about that of how, like, you know, you you have the intention of   making sure everything is right and make and if something is not right, then you kick it out.   If something is aligned with these, like, set of rules, then, like,   then then keep going. It's a part of it. And it and if it's not fitting, then it's not there anymore. Yeah.   So I'm not sure. Fascinating. I've that's the first time I've ever said that, so maybe I'm totally wrong. No. This this this makes this makes a lot of sense to me. And it it also,  

[00:52:23] Emily Hughes:

not to plug the game again because but but it it Plug it. Plug it. Think of of of block hunters because,   you're   ultimately,   trying to win the game.   So you're you're, you know,   looking out for your own self interest.   However,   you're working together with everybody else in order to do that because you you have to build the blockchain together,   and then,   you're also all   verifying   as as as as you go through.   Another thing it makes me think of is, like,   the individual   versus the collective.   You know, I think,   well, Bitcoin just kind of   Bitcoin is better for humanity as   a collective,   but it also transforms you on, like, the individual level.  

Mhmm. Also the same for psychedelics   as well.   Yeah. I I I don't know where I lost my I lost my train of thought, but,   yeah, the the   individual   acting in interest   individual interest, like, self interest.  

[00:53:37] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[00:53:38] Emily Hughes:

And also   without losing touch with, like, I'm part of a a a larger collective.   Mhmm. You know, like, you can't ignore the fact especially if you've taken some of these substances, you can't ignore the fact that we are all connected. It's like the number one thing people experience,   on these substances is this, like, profound feeling of connection.   And   and   yeah.  

[00:54:03] Unknown:

Yeah. I I think we're breaking boundaries. I think we're I think we're starting a whole new,   course in college. I think people are gonna be studying   the intersection of Bitcoin   and spirituality.  

[00:54:16] Emily Hughes:

Hell, yeah.  

[00:54:17] Unknown:

That's really cool. Mhmm.   I don't even know where to go from that. I I just think that we should just stay on that. Did   you did you grow up religious? Like, were you ever afraid of psychedelics because of any past   faith?  

[00:54:32] Emily Hughes:

No. I grew up, like,   we went to church on Sundays   until,   you know, we were teenagers. Shut it down. I mean, not not you like, my sisters had had, like, you know, tournaments and stuff. We just kind of but we never really talked   about it,   like, about like, I don't know. We we only said   we only said grace when we were, like, visiting family members. You know? We did it in our house.   And I got really into, like,   esoteric sort I think it was lacking in my life, but I never   like, I got really into, like,   tarot cards and stuff like that in my in my twenties, like, other outlets, and then kind of full circle found my way   back to and I wouldn't even say,   like, Christianity   per se, but something. Mhmm.  

But I I was I wasn't scared of psychedelics from that perspective.   I was scared   from the perspective of, like,   is this gonna make me mentally ill again? Is this gonna send me like like, is it   it's not safe to feel sadness because I could go into a month's long depression.   Mhmm. It's not safe to feel,   like, super happy because, like, am I actually, like, hypomanic   and embarrassing myself and doing things I shouldn't be doing and annoying people and and and acting,   you know, taking risks I shouldn't take, blah blah blah blah blah. It was more kind of like, I don't trust myself.   Mhmm. And that's that's kinda where my fear was. You you said you grew up religious, though. Did you have,   how how does how does that   come into play?  



[00:56:11] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, I think,   well, there's, like, the religious side, and then, like, I think that there's always, like, a, like, inner family culture. So,   the so I grew up in, like,   the church I went to, I guess, you could call it protestant   slash nondenominational.   It's sort of just like a modern   modern church.   Like, they wanted to have a good stage presence,   and they wanted I remember the pastor saying, we want this place to feel like Disney.   And so, like, there was a very, like,   out like,   forward projecting.   This is a happy place to be at,   but we still have these, like, really,   like, firm bible beliefs.  

And so the culture in church was like, you know, drugs are no good, all this stuff.   But then my the culture of my family, it just wasn't really discussed a lot. And so I was never really brought up to be afraid of that   even though, like, they didn't like it. I remember, like, when I first started smoking weed, I was, like I had, like, a little, like, sack. I had, like, a little bag,   and   I would always I would it got to a point where, like, my parents always realized I was bringing this bag when I saw my friend Taylor. I was like, what's the bag? Why do you always see Taylor with that bag? I'm like, there's no way to do it. And then, like, one night, my mom's like, is that marijuana?   And and so it's like there was like it was never discussed, but it was always like, what are you doing? Like, you know you're not supposed to do that.  

And they didn't even know how to, like, take in, like, hey. I've I did mushrooms. Like, they don't they didn't even know what to do with that. Yeah. Because,   you know, they grew up in the eighties and the nineties, and, you know, they got all these all these fear   situations. And even, like, my grandparents, you know, they grew up with the with an even different,   perspective. They were my grandparents are are, like, you know, like, they're that's, like, the foundation of, like, my family. Right?   They grew up in, like, the,   I guess, you could call it,   the Jesus revolution in, like, the sixties, I think. So alongside the psychedelics in the sixties in America, there was, like, this Jesus side. Gotcha. And my grandparents grew up in, like, on the Jesus side, and they were in a traveling theater group in college.  

And my grandma has a story of, like, one time, some girl   on the bus took mushrooms, and she went crazy or something. Yeah. And so they just it's just this very random   story that's  

[00:58:31] Emily Hughes:

like They thought they took the fly, and they jumped off a building.  

[00:58:35] Unknown:

Yeah. It's like, well, what about set and setting? What about what it was? What about knowing the source? Like, what about trusting the person who you buy it from? Like Right. You know, there's all there's this whole other   context   Yeah. That goes into buying these drugs illegally.   And so and so I I just had a different mindset on that. And, luckily,   my family were all individuals. That's that was always encouraged. Like,   you can do it. Like, you like, just do your best. Like, whatever you wanna do, you can do it.   And so and and they there was never any, like,   you need to go this path or you need to be this certain way.  

They allowed us to just be us, and so   growing up in that culture,   I just wasn't afraid of doing mushrooms. I was just curious. Right. There this overall curiosity. And and as soon as I did that, even though I was already sort of going through issues with church   and and trying to figure out   that faith, I never had a problem with God. It was always the problem with church Right. And the structure,   and I was, like, angry. Like, I had, like, anger at the structure,   And I was seeing, like, fallacies. I was seeing, like, just issues with the narratives.   Yeah. I was like, these things are not lining up. Like, whatever we're feeling is not what you're talking about.  

And then when I did mushrooms, it was like, this feels more aligned with faith. Like, how I feel on mushrooms feels more about how,   like, how Jesus talked about   being aligned with God or having God within you. Like, it just seemed more real   than anything I've ever experienced. And   and so growing up, I felt out of place, but then, like, I felt out of place in church. Like, I it seemed like I wasn't, like, having this, like, godly experience. I wasn't able to connect.   And then it's only been after mushrooms is when I've   been finally, like, integrating and, like, figuring out, like, how can I connect to god?  

And that took me on this path of, like, meditation. I've only been meditating for, like, a year, but   that's just, like, a part of the journey of, like, learning how to connect, learning how to   treat people. And that's and that's totally different than how, you know, Christians talk about faith and living,   because everything is directed towards   the the symbol and the and the image and the person of Jesus,   and it's like, but there's, like, a different thing. Like, you know, I'm just in this different era in my life where   there's a different understanding when it comes to these stories, when it comes to any   message about Buddha, any message from Jesus, any message from anything. You know? I think right now, I think every   religion sorta has, like, bits and pieces   of the puzzle,   and, like, I gotta figure out,   like, what that complete picture is. That's, like, my responsibility   to figure that out. And so that's been, like, an interesting journey of, like, figuring out   how do I think about that and then discussing that with my family. You know, some people in my family are more willing to listen than others.  

So, yeah, I forgot where I was gonna go with that, but your question was, like what was your question? Your interview email. I I don't I don't remember. I but I I was really interested to hear in,  

[01:01:51] Emily Hughes:

how your how about   God and your and your psychedelic journey kind   of   Molded. Yeah.   Or or melded together. Yeah. Because it is it's so true what you what you said about, when you're on psychedelics, you feel that connection way more than you ever   could in in church or or or something like that.   Something that   that   I so for a long time, I was I was   kind of rejecting   the   like, using the word god,   because it has so much so much connotations, and I was   big on, like, oh, the universe this, or, like, the universe wants this, or, like, this is a sign from the universe, like, blah blah blah blah blah.   And it just clicked for me one day where where, like, you should use   the word. Because, like like, all we're trying to do throughout conversations like these when we're taking psychedelics, when we're when we're thinking about these things is to get   closer to, like, the truth. Like, that's, I think, is is the goal.  

And   I realized, like, I should just use whatever word   carries the most power no matter how it makes me feel because, like, I used to hear, like, god, and I'd be, like, cringey. Like, like, wasn't   it? But, like,   the more I've reflected on it, the more I have, like, been open minded   and,   the psychedelics   that I've taken.   And I just it clicked one day. I'm, like, actually, the most powerful   word   that works that that I have is is god.   So, yeah, for whatever that's worth.  

[01:03:33] Unknown:

I I say god. I like god. Yeah.  

[01:03:35] Emily Hughes:

God is good. Yeah. I I'm I've,   this is this is kind of where I've I've settled right now as well.   Yeah. Yeah. God is it. Really cool. Thank you. Really cool. Point is is my favorite book. I just,   I think I'm on, like, my 4th or 5th copy because I keep giving it to people. I keep giving it away.   What's the book? Thank God for Bitcoin.  

[01:03:56] Unknown:

Well, I've never heard of that. When it Oh my gosh. You're gonna love it so much. I gotta look it up. I gotta   is there an audiobook? I always do audiobooks. Probably. Definitely.  

[01:04:06] Emily Hughes:

Okay.   Yeah. So I'll check that out. You'll you'll love it. It's my favorite book. What's the premise? Like, what's, like, what's in there? So it's, it's written by a number of people. I think the first author, though, is is Jimmy Song,   and it's   Bitcoin through, like,   I guess it's technically through the lens of the of the bible. It'll it'll have some bible verses in it, but I give it to people and I say like like, people who aren't religious at all, I say skip the bible verses. You know? Like, just just read this book because it it it lays out Bitcoin and also just money in general   completely through, like, the spiritual lens.  

Mhmm. And it's it's   so good. It's very easy read too.  

[01:04:51] Unknown:

Mhmm. Short. Dope. Yeah. That's interesting. The so the other side of this is, like,   that I've identified I'm not sure if this is even accurate, but I've also sort of been weary   of my one little weary side of Bitcoin   is   what if there is, like, this, like, worshiping   of money? Yes.   So and I don't know. You know, it's not like I'm trying to, like, call out people or anything like that, but there's a there is a side of the culture in Bitcoin of   it's it does seem like we're worshiping Bitcoin. It seems like this is like, this is the way. This is the truth. Bitcoin is life.   And so I've been dealing with that sort of idea as well and trying to figure out   just, like, just that concept. Like, how do you how do you   align yourself with what you think is the better system,   and you still not   worship money. You know? Because, like, I I do believe that, like, you know, money is, like, the root of most evil. I think maybe all evil,   even though but we're supposed to we're all living in our own self interest, and this is, like, the better system.  

Have you ever thought about that? You're gonna love  

[01:06:01] Emily Hughes:

for Bitcoin again, because because yeah. Because fiat money is the the root of all evil.   Probably yeah.   But, yeah, I think people   at least start to   when you go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, I can see how you would start to   worship Bitcoin.   Like, the system is the answer and Bitcoin fixes everything.   But I think that this, like   well, the monetary   revolution that's happening that will happen or is happening with Bitcoin   needs to be   accompanied   by a spiritual one.   And I think when you   go deeper into it and you opt out of, peacefully opt out of the   system we're in now and and, you know, embrace Bitcoin,   it   frees you   to,   to find find the truth, whatever that is. So maybe at at the beginning,   people think, like, you know, Bitcoin is the truth.  

But really Bitcoin is just a means of of getting to the truth. Like,   you know, when everyone gets into Bitcoin,   your your time preference is lowered. And that's kind of spiritual in itself.   You know?   Or another thing that's really common when people get into Bitcoin is,   is   and and for me, this happened is, like, you suddenly   are thinking about, I definitely wanna bring children into the world. Like, I wanna have kids. Or a be or or, like, you just, in general, feel like   there's actually hope for the future.   These are these are spiritual things.  



[01:07:44] Unknown:

Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. I think the I think it's not as it's not simply physical. It's not simply  

[01:07:51] Emily Hughes:

Oh, yeah. Exactly.  

[01:07:52] Unknown:

It's, like, super spiritual. My sister   my sister had a kid in 2018, and, you know, it's like   regardless of any stress of any physical stress, it's like that's like a spiritual experience. Yeah. You know? And that and it's, like, changed her life. You know?  

[01:08:10] Emily Hughes:

So I totally figured. How many people do you know,   out I'm assuming we're   give or take the same age Mhmm. Relatively,   like, you know, around, like, peers   that,   are, like, the so called, like, like, dinks   or or double income, no kids, or, like, a lot of people,   just just not interested in having kids. And even, like, the younger generation,   get really cynical about it,   And, like, oh, I'm not bringing any children into this world because of climate change. And and, like, like, it's   it's   and and also, realistically, just, like, how expensive it is to, like, have have kids. Like, there are really reasons why people aren't are are choosing not to, and I think it's, like, really sad and really scary because there is something, you know   we are rebuilding the system, and it's it's,   you know, coming from the bottom up. And and I hope that,   we see it real like, we see the Bitcoin,   revolution in our lifetime,   but,   that   I hate for it to be, like, too late for these people,   once they once they realize this. Like, we we're we're so lucky to be in Bitcoin so early, but, like,   yeah, that that that, like, hope that that is there that   that when you go into this Bitcoin rabbit hole, like,   you   know what I mean. There's just Yeah. This lack of hope that that exists outside of this, like, I just I feel this, like,   need to, like,   scream from the rooftops. You know? Like,   guys, Bitcoin is the answer.  



[01:09:44] Unknown:

There is hope. Yeah. There is hope. There's reason to, like, there's reason to, like, not think the world is ending. Absolutely.   Yeah. There's reason to think the world is, like,   rebirthing or something like that. Yeah. You know? Like, it's it's not just crumbling. It's also transforming,   because things are crumbling. You know? Like, things like, systems are collapsing, but   I don't think that's,   like, the end story. I think things are just renewing, or they're in the process of being renewed. Absolutely.   Yeah. And   to   your question about how how many people I know who don't want kids Yeah. I sorta I'm in, like, 2 worlds because, so I'm in, I'm 27. I was born in 1997.  

I grew up in Arizona,   and so that's like that my hometown in Arizona, like, many people I know have kids. You know, a lot of families,   single moms, whatever, but, like, everyone's, like my Instagram is, like,   over 50%   kids and moms and families,   and it's all people that that I grew up with. And then out here in Los Angeles, it's, like, I'm not sure if it's very ideological about the kids, but just, like, not a lot of kids. You know? Not a lot of marriages.   And if someone does get married, they usually move away. Right. So,   I'm not sure if that's because of LA or Right. Yeah. Well, I I I'm not sure.  

Yeah. Or if it's got, like, cost of living related, or is that yeah. Yeah. LG related? It might be related to that as well. You know, just very expensive. You know? Mhmm. I it's people I know who who who marry, they move back to their home area,   or it's just cheaper. You know, anything's cheaper than LA. Yeah. And and being around family too, I suppose. Change your balance a little bit. Family is, like, the huge thing. You know? Yeah. So that's, like, family is number 1.   And   so I do know some people who don't want kids because of these narratives about the world, but   I don't think it's relevant. Like, that's just their own journey. That's their own spiritual journey because, like, I just gotta focus on myself. That's also where I'm at spiritually. Like Yeah. I'm not gonna convince you. Like, I'm just there's this thing about, like, are you a tugboat or a lighthouse? Yes. Yes.  

And it's like, I I was thinking about that the last week or so, and it's like, I don't wanna, like, I just don't wanna be   negative. Because sort of, like, when you try to drag people   into what you're doing, that can be negative. Yeah. Yeah. And then a lot of people either.  

[01:12:09] Emily Hughes:

They're not listening.  

[01:12:10] Unknown:

Exactly. And there's, like, there's, like, resentment, and there's, like, negativity, and there's, like, like, resentment from you. You're, like, if if you think you have the positive   thing, but these people around you aren't doing it, then you develop some negative emotion, and that's not healthy. Yeah. And so what needs to happen is   just be the best example of, like, whatever you wanna do, be the best example of that.   Be hyper successful in Bitcoin.   Go for it.   Be your be the best version of yourself,   and to, like, to believe in yourself and to just be an example of   these positive   attributes that you say you believe in. Yeah. And then people will see you. People will somehow,   seek you out. You know? Maybe some people need advice,   and so I just I think it's one of those things of, like, of, like, being a lighthouse that people can just see and just observe.  

And then if they wanna   go towards you or go towards something similar that you are sharing, then that will happen naturally. And I think that's, like,   I think that that's just what, like, every, like,   peaceful,   peaceful spiritual master has done Yeah. As well. Like, Buddha didn't force anyone to follow him. Jesus didn't force anyone to follow him.   You know, it's just it's very interesting. Yeah. It's also interesting when I think about these stories of, like, back in the day, like, past, like, old religion.   It's interesting to to just think about, like, people walking together.  

Like, to just think about, like,   like, people just just walk together and, like, following someone really meant, like,   you're walking with them, like, physically walking, and you can literally just walk away.   And the digital version of that is just, like, unfollowing someone. Yeah. Oh, cool. That's true. And, like,   I don't know. Just something similar. There's, like, some weird parallel going on of, like, you   we're going into, like, different realities. Right? That that's been, like, another thing. Like, the our realities are splitting, and some people are in one and some people are in the other. And I like to think I'm in the brighter one, but   Same. Like, hopefully yeah. Your your your algorithm is, like, what you choose. Right? And, like, you follow who you wanna follow. Well, kind of,  

[01:14:24] Emily Hughes:

if Yeah. Depends on the platform you're using. Because this is because when you said that, I'm like, oh, that's super interesting because in theory,   unfollow should be,   you know, you walk away, but the the algorithms are   obviously, I'm not talking about Nostra right now, but, you know, the, like, the platforms, the social media platforms that most people use are   sort of designed in a way to get you to spend as much money and as much attention   Oh, yeah. As possible.   So, yeah, that's that's   that's interesting.  

[01:14:58] Unknown:

No. Yeah. I I agree with that because, like, the difference between, like, Instagram and Noster. It's like Instagram is just like fucking brothel. Yeah. That's just like it's like if I'm if you're a guy, it's very easy to just find out to find all the all the OnlyFans girls,   just like   like, it's just like you   you 5 seconds on one video and then, like, your whole feed is, like it's all that, and it's like and that's   very hard to to get out of that,   that algorithm.   But then on Nostra, it's like, if you wanted to seek that out, you would have to physically   follow those people. Or if you want the conspiracy   memes, if you want the dark Illuminati   stuff, you have to follow that. Yeah. Yeah.  

Or if you're on Twitter, it's like, if you just, like, like a few posts, then you're getting more of that stuff. It's like so it's very interesting. It's like there's,   it's like things are being forced on you, but then you gotta, like it's like a wrestle. You gotta wrestle with the algorithm. Yeah. Which is weird. Annoying, and it's,  

[01:15:56] Emily Hughes:

it's tiring, honestly. Because Yeah. Of my I have, like, I have a brain that was designed to, like,   pick berries and, like, we refuse   children, like like and and it's just, like, all of this information   coming at me all of the time and and some and I need to use these platforms   for work. And I and and and I they they suck my time. They steal my time.   My time is the only thing that I have that has any value.   You know? Like, it's it's it's   time in Bitcoin and and Mhmm. And, you know, and and it's,   to be constantly fighting,   it is is so,   it's tiring.  

And,   yeah, I I don't know what the solution is.   I guess I guess the solution is not clear, but I'm and I love not clear.   But I'm skeptical.  

[01:16:52] Unknown:

Of the   Of what? Of  

[01:16:55] Emily Hughes:

mainstream adoption anytime  

[01:16:58] Unknown:

soon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm skeptical as well.   Just thinking about it this week, you're just, like   there's, like, a lot more because when I think about, like, normal people and nostril people, it's, like,   my normal people, like,   they don't care about censorship Yeah. And they're also not posting anything that could be censored. Exactly. So I'm thinking about all the all the people I know who are moms. It's like,   these moms are not,   like, they're not trying to be controversial. They don't wanna get banned. There's no reason for them to get banned.   It makes no sense for Instagram to ban these people.  

And then when it comes to and then I think about, like, information. You know? And and, like, COVID is, like, the prime example of,   information being,   coordinated   or being suppressed. Yeah.   And   when it come like, just in my story, like, I was able to get what I think are correct narratives around that era,   because of podcasts and an RSS feed.   And so just, like, just bare bones,   if someone needs information, I can send them an RSS feed,   and   you can't censor that. You can't like, that that there's already been   censorship resistant technology,   and that's the RSS feed. And when it comes to social media,   it's like all you need to do is just send a link to an RSS feed.  

So it's like, I, like, I think about different ways that you can share information,   and a lot of people are   like, a lot of people on Nostr, I guess my criticism is, like, they they wanna be censorship resistant,   but,   like, what, like, what information is so important that it is being censored on Twitter? Right. Because   Nostar people's criticism of Bitcoin   Twitter is   it's just like a bad culture. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And then, like and then whenever Elon wants to ban some account, then they use that as an example, but that account wasn't even aligned with your ethos or your culture. Right. So it's, like, who cares about this random account being banned? Like, I don't care.   So this is Blue, by the way. He just jumped up on my lap.  



[01:19:07] Emily Hughes:

Okay.   My cat I I have a cat that   kinda hates me, which she would never jump on my lap. I'm I'm so jealous right now.   My cat loves me. Oh, she loves me. Like, I know she loves me, but,   she doesn't show it.  

[01:19:24] Unknown:

Yeah. This, this guy's a   Siamese   snowshoe mix. Oh. Do you know what that is? He's big.   $47   at the shelter. But, like, when you look up the value of these cats, like, $3.  

[01:19:37] Emily Hughes:

Really?  

[01:19:39] Unknown:

That's what I don't know. That's what Google said. Maybe it's fake, but   I don't know.   But I'm sitting on I'm sitting on point 3 of Bitcoin right now.  

[01:19:48] Emily Hughes:

I love it.  

[01:19:52] Unknown:

But, yeah, I I just think,   yeah, Nostr,   I I like it, but I don't like it. I'm only using it because I wanna make more Bitcoin.  

[01:20:01] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. I think it's such a cool community. I love the community, and I love it's a it's a more enjoyable   experience. Like, I don't doom scroll on Nostarx. You can't.  

[01:20:14] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[01:20:15] Emily Hughes:

Which is good. Yeah. But, like, my number one reason why I think   the world would be a better place if everybody was using   Nostra clients is that,   you could   build your own algorithm, and the algorithm would be, you know, designed to make you a better person or show you the things that you choose to see.   With   the other apps, like,   I don't know. Even if you get really, really fed up with how much time you're sort of losing, like, that's kind of, like, escaping you,   you can just download a tool to,   block yourself after 30 minutes of scrolling or something like that.   Yeah. So, like, it it's it's not even   solving that problem.  



[01:21:01] Unknown:

Yeah. Barely solve a problem. The only problem I have is not getting enough Bitcoin. Yeah. I'm not sure of that because that's what that's why I, I started the podcast a couple years ago as well because   I was so I went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole during COVID and   trying to figure out you know, the whole mission is to get Bitcoin,   but then at the same time, it's like I don't have that much money to, like, to like, I need to pay my bills. Yeah. And so it's more responsible if I don't just buy Bitcoin.  

[01:21:29] Emily Hughes:

Yeah.  

[01:21:32] Unknown:

So I came to this conclusion, like, I if I can't buy if I'm telling myself it's   it it if I'm telling myself to to not buy Bitcoin, then I need to earn it. Yeah. And so and then there's just been there's been innovation with podcasting and hooking up.   The whole project is called podcasting 2 point o.   I'm not sure if you're even, like, aware of this, but the whole reason Okay. The   yeah. So fountain is, like, the prime example right now. The whole reason fountain exists is because the inventor of podcasting   wanted to   continue the mission of, like, strengthening   podcasting   and and,   innovating with RSS feeds. His name's Adam Curry, and I,   I got into him because, like, I started following his other podcast,   revolving around, like,   politics and news. That's called No Agenda.  

He's been doing that for, like, 17, 18 years. And   when I say inventor of podcasting, this man invent like, true like,   invented it. Oh, cool.   So and I thought that was incredible. I was like, oh, this is this is the inventor. And so and then he started this project called podcasting 2.0, and then they were trying to find ways to send value,   within a censorship resistant way, and they were just choosing Bitcoin because that's just that's just what Bitcoin is.   And so I was like, if I wanna earn Bitcoin,   maybe this is, like, a way to do it. I should start a podcast, and I can if if I make a good enough podcast,   if,   if I make a valuable podcast and people will send that value back to me,   and I was like like, that that was, like, a huge light bulb for me. And I was like, okay. This is how I do it then. This is how I earn Bitcoin. And then throughout the last couple years, it's been,   you know,   not that much Bitcoin is being sent around. You know? Like Yeah. I think last year   well, it's it's actually a a good amount of Bitcoin. I think last year, like, throughout the whole   just in fountain, I think over I think it was just I think it might have been 2 Bitcoin   was sent around to, like, podcasters.  

You know? And that's, like, listeners and podcasters sending it to each other. Yeah. I think that's right. It might it might be 1 or 2. But regardless, even if it's just 1 Bitcoin,   that's still, like, a huge deal. Yeah.   And I have, like, a little chunk of that. Mhmm. And,   and then I was just trying to figure out, like, how can I continue   to make more Bitcoin? Yeah. And then I because   I tried doing the whole I and I and I guess I still am trying to do, like, the whole, like, social media thing, trying to get some sort of, you know, have some following on Instagram with Yeah. Pertaining to, like, health and   and different topics like that. And   so try to, like, capitalize on that system, like the sponsorships and   the the brand deals and and things like that.  

But then, like, podcasting and Bitcoin is, like, I can earn something. I can earn a hard asset   if I create something that's, like, a hard asset.   Right. Because that's what the best podcasts are. Podcasts like, the best your favorite podcast is a hard asset.   Like, there's no and you can't that that this is how I think of it,   because, like, whenever you listen to something good, it's like, this is amazing. This is the best thing in the world regardless if it's, like, a true crime or   whatever. You know? It's like, this is incredible. And so what if you could, like what if the person could send me what they think is valuable from that? And that's where and that aligns with the Bitcoin Ethos. Mhmm. You get what you deserve. You you   you what was the saying? It's like, you get Bitcoin at the price you deserve. Yes. Yeah. And   I, like, I was like, I'm aligned with that, and it doesn't even matter if I'm not making that much because this is true. This is what I deserve in this moment. Yeah. And that encourages me to   continue to get better, try to innovate more,   and expand and change and and things like this. So   and Noster was just like that way of earning more because I'm not really earning money. I tried earning money from Twitter, and that's just like,   Yeah. No. It's no good. Like, I'm not some cute Asian girl who's, like who's reposting memes. Like, I'm just not Right. I'm not with people. I'm not posting clips of political stuff. I'm   I'm I'm just not that guy. Right. I just wanna express myself. The whole reason I podcast is to express myself. I think I'm an artist,   like, just, like, to my core. So   I'm just creative to my core, and I that's just what I wanna do. Yeah. And so Nasport allows me to just   post what I wanna post,   say what I wanna say, and then if people vibe, they can they can zap me, they can boost me.  

So that's, like, the only benefit just because I wanna double down on Bitcoin. It is I don't think a benefit for creators,  

[01:26:12] Emily Hughes:

I would say. Like,   we we based one of the characters in our game off of this off of the the   value for value system.   So, like, her backstory   is that she's   an indie artist, and and she has a unique style. And if she wanted to make money off of Spotify,   she would have to,   you know, compromise her style and try to get   a large   amount of people   listening to her to make, like, little pennies as opposed to this panel where you could, like, be very true to your art form,   and people will,   like, give you value in exchange for that. You you there's no middlemen taking a cut. There's no it's just you directly to your audience   and and no   need to compromise   creatively. So it's it's   it's definitely the battle better model for artists and creators, like, for sure.  



[01:27:11] Unknown:

Yeah. Your value is real, dude. Yeah.   And that the inventor of podcasting, he sort of created the narrative of value for value. That's really where the value for value model begun is, like, with him and his cohost.  

[01:27:24] Emily Hughes:

Sorry. I'm not sure if you knew that. I didn't. I I didn't. The first time I heard about value for value,   this was, like, before I was, like, I was   in the process of getting orange pill maybe. I was like, that'll never work.   But if people can, like, consume it for free   and, like, opt to give money,   they're just gonna opt to not give money. Like like, I was like, that doesn't make sense.   But then the more I've seen it out in the wild and the more I have, like, you know, directly   found found myself being like, I need to zap this person. Like, I need to, like, you know,   like like,   it's kind of I don't know. I proved myself wrong.  

I've come I was I was I was wrong about that. Like, it does work. It's it, I like the analogy of, like, the busker.   You know? If you like what you hear, you you throw   some money in the hat.  

[01:28:18] Unknown:

Mhmm. Yep. Yeah. Exactly.   It's almost like both sides. Like, the both sides have, like, open doors   because, like, the the example of the person playing music on the street with the with the hat on the ground, that's like like, hit their door is open Mhmm. To receive value,   but it's gonna be rare if someone walking by has another open door who's willing to listen   and also willing to give. Right. But then the just specifically   the model and the narrative of value for value puts everyone in the mindset of having an open door and being willing to listen and being willing willing to share Yeah.   Which is almost   spiritual as well. It's an international lifestyle. Yeah. I love that.  



[01:29:03] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. That's another another paradigm shift that is   facilitated by Bitcoin.   One of It is a paradigm shift.   New neural pathways the collective is,   forming.  

[01:29:16] Unknown:

Until we start sending XRP for value.  

[01:29:20] Emily Hughes:

Yeah.  

[01:29:22] Unknown:

You're like, no. No.  

[01:29:25] Emily Hughes:

I don't know about these things. I don't know anything about anything.  

[01:29:29] Unknown:

Me either. Okay. Me either. I I just go with the vibe. I just go with the flow. I just buy Bitcoin. Same.  

[01:29:35] Emily Hughes:

But only, man. Bitcoin only.  

[01:29:38] Unknown:

Oh, man. So this is cool.   I don't really know what else to talk about. Did you wanna talk about anything? Like, maybe we should plug the game one more time. Or Yeah. I'm gonna show you my game your game.   This is blocking. Like yeah. Did you plan stacking up the boxes like that? Because that's, like,   that's, like, high level intelligence.  

[01:29:56] Emily Hughes:

Well, I didn't plan that that stack of   books is always there, I'll be honest, but I did bring the game in   Nice. Room. Yes. That's great. Where do people buy it? They can buy it at blockhuntersgame.com.   I'm working on getting it on Amazon, but I still I I still think the best place to buy it will be blockhuntersgame.com   in terms of price.   Mhmm. They ship from the Netherlands.   And,   yeah, it's   genuinely   a really fun board game. Like, you'll like this game if you like Bitcoin, but you'll also just like it if you like board games too.   It's it's it's really fun, and it works   how   the Bitcoin   technology works.  

And we have, like, woven in all of these   use cases for Bitcoin around the world. So it's like if you have somebody who's curious about Bitcoin,   who is   wanting to understand it anymore, this is the perfect tool to orange fill,   orange fill people.  

[01:31:01] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:31:02] Emily Hughes:

Yeah. It's it's a I love that. It's a lot of fun.  

[01:31:06] Unknown:

I love that.   What's like is there,   a minimum age requirement, do you think? Like, does it take someone who's, like, over 10, or what's that? So we have we've written on the box 14 plus. That was  

[01:31:21] Emily Hughes:

that was a little bit to do with customs and and if it's a toy or not. Right. Kids as young as 7 play the game with some modifications.   I would say any kid at at 10 and up is is totally doable. You can you can   even, like, again, with a couple modifications,   play with younger kids. We've got really young kids playing it.   It's not that hard to understand, and it it runs about 30 minutes.   So it it's a fast paced game. And the more you play it, the more insights you get about, like   it's funny, like like, watching   I I we were telling my sister about how Bitcoin works, and and there's a like, the process of the game of, like, filling the mempool with transactions.  

We all have to, like, announce,   you know, like, to kinda, like, verify.   And I'm like I think she was, like, checking,   something, and she's like, oh, I'm noting right now. We're like, you're what? She's like, I'm noting. Right? Like, this is the node, and I'm like, yeah. Like, it's so cool to see those those little connections,   get made.  

[01:32:21] Unknown:

That's cool. Yeah. I'm I'm a noter. I'm I'm noting. I'm a noter.  

[01:32:26] Emily Hughes:

I was like, yeah. You can do that. Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah. Or like really cool. A lot of people call the mempool the memory pool because there's some like a memory component in the game. So, like,   yeah, it's it's just so fun to watch no corners sort of, like, have these, like free corners, I should say, have these,   these these connections get made. It's it's very fun. It brings me a lot of joy.   Is that what mempool means, memory? I No. I have no idea. I don't I don't.   But you but,   yeah, in our in our game, you have to memorize the the  

[01:33:01] Unknown:

You memorize the mempool?  

[01:33:03] Emily Hughes:

Kind of. Yeah. You you you're trying to keep track of you're trying to figure out   what private key other people at the at the other players have. The private keys are are are characters.   Mhmm. So you're kinda trying to remember, okay. She put that there, and I think that was that. So, like, there there's a memory   component,   and there's a lot of bluffing and and, you know, you're,   you know, trying to be private.   Mhmm. Also collect the most Bitcoin and also work together to build the blockchain.  

[01:33:31] Unknown:

Mhmm.   That's really cool. Yeah. I my, my nephew is 6. So I was just curious, like, if, like, I can orange peel my my 6 year old nephew. It can it can be done. Maybe a a a couple more years probably prime for him, but   Yeah.   After he's done with Minecraft. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.   Yeah. Well, that's cool.   Yeah. Emily, awesome. Did you wanna talk about anything else? Like, I really I'm a I'm at a loss for words right now. Just wanna it's it's been a great vibe. It's been a great talk so far. This is an awesome conversation. I I don't I don't really have anything  

[01:34:05] Emily Hughes:

much else to say.  

[01:34:07] Unknown:

Does does Should people follow you somewhere? Should people follow you personally or just block hunters? Yeah. You can,  

[01:34:12] Emily Hughes:

I'm on, I'm on Noster. Block hunters is on Noster.   Block Hunters game underscore on x,   Block Hunters game on Instagram.   Yeah. I'm I'm like,   I'm trying to remember what we are on primal. You'll find on, Noster. Sorry. You'll find us block hunters game, and I'm I'm Emily.  

[01:34:38] Unknown:

Emily. Hi, my hi, Emily. Hi.  

[01:34:40] Emily Hughes:

That's right. You're just Emily on Noster. I think it's so I don't know how to verbally share who I am. Like, you I can't, like   n p u b.  

[01:34:51] Unknown:

Yeah. You memorize the whole another thing to memorize. Right.   That's   funny. No. I'll I'll I'll link your Nostril. I'll link your I'll link the Block Hunter thing.   Are you on Instagram a lot, or do you not care about the centralized stuff? I'm I'm personally on Instagram a little bit. That's where most of my friends are, so, you know, I'm not I mean You're not, like, promoting it? Like, it's not like, hey. Follow me. Not really. If you wanna follow  

[01:35:15] Emily Hughes:

Instagram, do so. I'll share all the Block Hunter stuff. It's, Emily Eliza Hughes.   Right on. Yeah. No. It's not. Dope. That's that's a lie. It's Emily it's Emily it's Emily Elizabeth Hughes, but the h in Elizabeth is the same as the h from Hughes.   No one cares anyway. It's fine. Elizabeth? What?  

[01:35:34] Unknown:

H in Elizabeth?   Yeah. The last letter of Elizabeth is h and the first letter Oh my god. I'm stupid. I went to I am I'm an American, so I didn't know how to spell.  

[01:35:45] Emily Hughes:

I don't even know what my own Instagram handle is. So   That's cool. Worry about it.  

[01:35:50] Unknown:

Alright. Well, Emily, thank you so much for being on America Plus. Thank you so much. Talk to you later. Great. Yeah. Thank you.   Yeah.   That's America Plus, bitch.   Stay free.