In this episode of the Elevate Utah podcast, host Nick Jennings is joined by Dustin, Sean, and Scott, along with special guest Ben Marolf, owner of Another Round Shop in Murray, Utah. Ben shares his journey of bringing a dedicated disc golf shop to Utah and discusses the challenges and progress of obtaining a liquor license for his shop. The conversation delves into the complexities of Utah's liquor laws and the efforts made to navigate them, highlighting the community's support and the potential for future growth. The discussion shifts to the redesign of the Creekside disc golf course, a historic course designed by Steady Ed Hedrick. The hosts and Ben discuss the extensive work done to improve the course, including new tee pads, baskets, and irrigation systems. They reflect on the community's involvement and the importance of advocating for disc golf in Utah. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to get involved in supporting and growing the disc golf community.
[00:00:26]
Nick Jennings:
Welcome in to the Elevate Utah podcast. I am your host Nick Jennings joined by Dustin.
[00:00:32] Scott Belchak:
Sean. And I'm Scott.
[00:00:33] Nick Jennings:
And today, we have a very special guest with us as well. Would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. Yeah. I'm I'm Ben Maroff. I
[00:00:41] Ben Marolf:
throw Frisbees.
[00:00:43] Scott Belchak:
No no greater words have been spoken ever. I don't think I've ever heard you say your last name. I've always thought it was Maroff. No one knows how to pronounce it. It it has a lot of variations. Make a stand for that. Yeah. It's a problem. Exactly.
[00:00:54] Ben Marolf:
More off. Yeah. So we have Ben here who is the owner of the another round shop in is it technically Murray or Midvale? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Murray. Would you like to tell us a little bit? Because no one knows who you are or what you're doing in here. I'm playing disc golf for twenty years. Moved out to Utah eight years ago. And the small rural town I came from in Central Minnesota had a shop that had been there for over a decade. Town of, like, 16,000 people. And Salt Lake didn't have a dedicated disc golf shop, so reached out to some dudes from the East Coast who had a pretty cool model and, brought a dedicated disc golf shop to Utah in 2024 in April. So we got about a month and four day, a month and three days until we've been open for a year
[00:01:34] Scott Belchak:
and loving it. So the hot topic question that everybody is constantly asking, you mentioned this business model with another round. They sell beer. Yep. So when is that coming?
[00:01:43] Ben Marolf:
A lot of momentum is happening right now with it. When I was finding my initial space, I just had to make sure that it was plausible that we could have beer there, which means it had to be 400 feet walking from a park and a quarter mile from a church and 16 miles from the nearest UFO sighting and had to fit all of these different criteria to have the ability to have some sort of liquor license on it. That's step one. And that space qualifies for that. Step two was having it be recreationally accessible. There's a couple different ways to get a liquor license in Utah and the classic ones you think about are bar, tavern, restaurant. We're not gonna be a restaurant. We're not gonna serve food. We're not gonna be a tavern or bar because you have to be 21 or older to enter those. And so the other way you can get around it is by pursuing a recreational on-site permit.
And in the eighties, when the good people of Utah were writing the code for the zoning for Murray, there was a prohibition put in for what they referred to as amusements in '88 when they wrote the zoning. And so that was a it was in an effort to prohibit and dissipate the excitement around dance halls and roller rinks, which were places where they thought during that current climate in Utah that the youth were gonna go to sin and do things. And so, that zoning was but that zoning was there, and so it prohibited amusements. And disc golf is considered an amusement under the whole purview of the legalese of Murray City, at least. And so in order to have a recreational on-site permit, we had to have some aspect of recreation on-site. But because the zoning for the area prohibited amusements, we were not able to pursue that aspect of a liquor license. So I've spent the last year submitting a zoning amendment. Well, I submitted the zone amendment a while ago, but waiting for the zoning amendment to come up on the docket for the zoning committee, which it did in December, and received unanimous approval from the zoning committee to suggest an approval to the city council of Murray at the city council's next meeting in March.
I have to go to that meeting. It is very likely that at that meeting, they will approve the suggestion of the zoning committee to approve my zoning amendment to the area, which will then allow us to pursue a liquor license with the city and generally city acceptance and approval The national What are we what are we talking here? We're just talking beer? Just beer on tap. The recreational on-site permit is similar to one in a bowling alley where you just have to you can go in and get something at the bar, and you don't have to you just get ID'd there. And it's all 5% or less beer on tap, and that's it. So no tequila sunrises, no mules of any kind,
[00:04:29] Scott Belchak:
and just beer on tap. And we'll still have kombucha because it's Utah. And What about high points? No. No high points. No high points? None of that funny percent or less. 5% or less. Okay. Manufactured and brewed in Utah. That's correct. It still has to be 5%. If not out of a can, then it is 5% or less. I wonder how many more people are employed in the state of Utah in the in the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control than than the other counterparts where they don't have all these rules. You know? Is it just like a bonanza for these people? Oh, sure.
[00:04:57] Nick Jennings:
I don't even wanna think about that. Utah liquor license or liquor laws are just
[00:05:01] Ben Marolf:
back ass words. You know? Yeah. It's just a lot of work that you have to do to get it. I'm finding in helping open up these other stores around the country too that it's not just us. There are places where you can get one for 25¢ and a kiss, but in Utah, it's a little harder. But other places are not all that dissimilar. There's a lot of good movement here, and it's been cool to see Murray City help me navigate this whole thing. They've been the ones who have been suggesting all of these different decisions that I make Yeah. They want you there. In an effort to keep our business in Murray City. And they're stoked about the idea. So it's a slow burn, but we're just going through the channels that we got. And, yeah, that's that. Anyways, Frisbee store and maybe beer in the future. Ben Moroff, thanks for joining us. Ben, happy to be here. I think that's our time. Yep. Yep. Welcome to Elevate Utah, d a b c, Liquor Law podcast.
[00:05:47] Scott Belchak:
On
[00:05:49] Nick Jennings:
a serious note though, Ben, so you were talking about helping open up some additional locations for the another round franchise brand, if you will. Yeah. Kinda what what is your role in that? So currently, the title that we're operating under for me is director of franchising for the national side of the brand. And so
[00:06:07] Ben Marolf:
what that means is that every single application, I guess you can call it, every person who reaches out hoping to start a shop in their town, that all comes through me. And then I've set those applications and decide who's worth calling, essentially. And then talk to people about their hopes for what a shop might look like in their town. And then I just start analyzing their scene and seeing, okay, you know, is there already a couple, like, really beloved mom and pop shops in that area because it's just not gonna be a good fit. Right? Like, a disc golf shop in even in Salt Lake City, where we have a really rabid community, you have to sell such a unbelievable amount of Frisbees to pay rent and your employees and everything that comes with running a business that it it's you gotta have the right spot and the right person for the job anywhere. And so I'm because of the success and the model that the Salt Lake Shop sort of has set, the burden sort of fell onto me as something that I was excited to do for the whole brand of of figuring out, okay, how can we implement this other places, and how can I help other franchisees along the way? Because the whole Another Round brand is still very much in its infancy, is growing rapidly, but also less rapidly than it could have if we were just accepting every application that came in and putting stores in every place. It's, like, just to get one to signing the franchise agreements, you know, a month or two of me just talking to people and sussing them out a little bit and then kinda giving them the playbook, you know, if we get to that point. So since I've come on, I've helped with Hattiesburg, Lula, North Cove, Nashville, Twin Cities. And then we're announcing another one probably in the next week somewhere in North Carolina. And then I'm working on a couple in the general vicinity of Georgia, Washington, and Massachusetts.
How's the Twin Cities store doing? It's coming along. So the owner of that store, Nick Benoit, is a phenomenal human being, first and foremost. He and his wife had kind of a little Instagram going called mister and missus Bogie that was very popular there. And right now, they're in the phase of trying to figure out location and working through local laws. They're kinda like we were with our liquor laws here. His current hiccup is that every landlord in the state of Minnesota typically requires a personal guarantee of eighteen months of rent for someone to get into the space. There was no guarantee like that in Utah. There hasn't been any of our other locations or if there has been, it hasn't been a problem. But, essentially, the landlords, they're asking for, okay, if you fail or go under, you're on the hook for, you know, more or less $60,000.
And not having $60,000 sitting aside like most people don't, the collateral would be his home essentially or something like that. We've got, like, two or three different things that we're kind of attacking to get him to a good point. So we're navigating right now kind of starting the shop in that space without having a physical space because all the conversations that we've been having have been surrounding the the fact that at the end of the day, if the shop is just a physical location where all you do is sell discs, that's that's not what it should be. So we're before he finds a space, we're working on, you know, building up his reputation in the scene and and starting to just do things. Like, do everything that you can without having a space. Start selling discs. Because at the end of the day, if he's gonna be required to have a huge personal guarantee put down, if he doesn't have any overhead of paying for employees in a space, like, you can make a lot of money pretty quickly if you don't have to cover all that. And so that's sort of what we're working on right now is just figuring out how to how how to do that and at the same time, continuing to look for places there that don't require personal
[00:10:05] Sean Kelley:
personal guarantee. How many shops around the country actually sell liquor or sell beer? Is it like a Charlotte, Asheville,
[00:10:12] Ben Marolf:
Greenville, Austin, Dallas will. They're opening this weekend. So at least half of them out there probably do sell beer? I think Lula's gonna have theirs. North Cove will have theirs. I know the Denver One does. Denver for sure does. So, yeah, I think almost all like, the goal is for all of them to get there or be doing it actively. And it's just so tied to the local laws, and that's it. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Now as interesting as the another round side of things is,
[00:10:39] Nick Jennings:
that's actually not why we have you on here today, Ben. Oh, thank god.
[00:10:43] Ben Marolf:
So let's talk about your budget now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so lost. Yeah. Well, this is gonna be news to Dustin then as well. But basically,
[00:10:50] Nick Jennings:
you know, we're going through the different courses in Utah. The course that you are kind of taking ownership of, if you will, of the maintenance, the basket moving, all of that kind of stuff is Creekside. Right? Walter Frederick Morrison Park. Right? Who was the inventor of the Frisbee. And from Utah. From Richfield. Yeah. And what was it? The sixth most played course in the world?
[00:11:12] Ben Marolf:
This year? I think it was the fourth. Russia in the nation? Sixth month on the planet. It put Utah as the fourth
[00:11:18] Scott Belchak:
as far as yeah. It's the fourth busiest course in The United States and the sixth busiest course in the world. Yep. Yeah. That's pretty nuts. That's according to UDisc, and that's, you know, their best bet, but it doesn't count doubles. It doesn't count the freaking sanctioned singles leagues that we're running out there, which has another hundred. You know? It it it doesn't count The hundred people that play. Go and play. Play. There's so many people who don't use UDisc that go and play there. I wouldn't I'd actually be surprised if it wasn't right behind Morley.
Right behind it.
[00:11:48] Nick Jennings:
So there there have been a lot of changes to the course over the last couple of years. Starting with a massive redesign in 2023. Yes. Yep. Yep. Walk us through what went into that. Like, how did how did that come about? The whole conversation started
[00:12:04] Ben Marolf:
with the Creekside Open in, like, early spring of twenty twenty three. And the conversation began because Elevate took over running the Creekside Open for 2023. And as a part of that, we were looking for a good manufacturer with which to partner as a title sponsor. And we reached out to a couple of them, but we were kinda keying in on MVP. And as part of our ask of them for title sponsorship, one of the big things we were asking for was, hey. Can we get either a really heavy discount or donation of, new baskets for Creekside? Because Creekside receiving as much play as it had, you know, before it was the sixth most played course in the world, it was probably the tenth, you know, according to uDisc, and has always been massively popular. And because it's been there for so long, those baskets had seen millions of hits. The course the pads were cracked. The tee pad areas were muddy. The way you got between hole to hole was unclear. The signage was okay, but not great. Maybe better than it is now, actually.
The signs were alright. Impetus I was we're all thinking it. Yeah. We are. But we'll get better someday. I'm gonna be honest. I wasn't thinking it because I Hayden Seager. I played it
[00:13:24] Nick Jennings:
in a high school with an ultimate Frisbee, and I didn't actually play it with disc golf discs until after the redesign. Sure. They were homey and and campy and fun. But Yeah. It it might make sense for us to rewind even a little bit further
[00:13:38] Scott Belchak:
from the Creekside Open too because Creekside Open was the kind of the impetus of us getting it done. But a little bit about the backstory and the history of this course is it was designed by Steady Ed Hedrick, the inventor of disc golf Yeah. With PDGA. It was one of his earlier designs. Yep. And he designed that thing when there were very few trees in there and put it in the ground. And it's actually not as old as Roots, believe it or not. Roots was a disc golf course before Creekside. It was an international disc golf center. It was one of study ed's IDGCs.
[00:14:11] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. So Roots Roots is one of the first courses in the world.
[00:14:15] Scott Belchak:
But then it died a horrible death when they turned it into the par three, and then that's why it's called Roots. It went back to its roots. But Creekside is an old course. It's only a few years away from us being able to label it historic. And that message is what got this thing done because we're coming up on twenty fifth. Twenty fifth annual Creekside Open. The twenty fifth annual Creekside Open. I took that tournament over, Elevate Utah did. Ben and I ran it. And I sent an email out to this contact at the county named Heidi and said, hey. This is who I am. I'm Scott from Elevate, Utah. We're a nonprofit that you know, blah blah blah blah. We're coming up on the twenty fifth annual Creekside Open on a course that was designed by a steady Ed and sits in memorial of the inventor of the Frisbee, Walter Frederick Morrison, and the course needs work. It would be amazing if we got new baskets by the twenty fifth. That's all we asked for. That's all I reached out and asked for. I did have one of my packets that said, look at this problem. Look at this problem. Look at this problem. But that's not what I asked for. I didn't ask for what they did. I just showed them the problems and just said, let's get some new baskets.
[00:15:23] Ben Marolf:
And we had the offer from MVP with that. That was like we were bringing that to them saying we have not only would we like you to pay for this because this is your property, but also we have a really sweet deal for you here. You can get good value and upgrade your course at
[00:15:38] Scott Belchak:
the same time. Yeah. We basically had baskets for as cheap as you could possibly get. I'm, like, saving we basically saved $6,000 on those thing. It took me email after email and phone call after phone call to make sure that they bought the MVP ones because they really just wanted to remain consistent with the new disc golf developments that they were making. And so we narrowly avoided having veterans there because they had just put veterans in Bingham Creek, and they were just so hard line about keeping consistent. Yet the signs are different. The tee pads are different sizes, the mandos are all different. It's like, you have no consistency out here whatsoever between your properties, between Taylorsville. Like, you got three courses. Like, you know, if you're gonna say you're gonna be consistent, why don't you just be consistent and do what you did from Creekside to to Beam Creek and to Taylorsville? If you wanna be consistent, use Creekside as a model now, please.
[00:16:28] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. And so that was I mean, that was the start of it. Is is we went in, it was it was you, me, Chris Norman, and we sat down with two or three folks from the county and had a very disheartening yet somewhat encouraging conversation with them where they didn't really give us anything. Like, there was no, yes, we're gonna do this. There was no stoke about it. It was just, like, very forthright and, like, okay. We see we understand that there's a problem, but also, like, is it worth our time of day is kind of what it felt like. Well and also Salt Lake County is so overstaffed.
[00:17:02] Scott Belchak:
Like, it needs Elon to come in and be like, you're out of here, and you're out of here, and you're out of here. You know? Like, it's it's so overstaffed that that even if you think you find the right person, it's not the right person. You know? They gotta talk to to Teddy, and then Teddy's gotta go talk to Marge. You know? And then maybe you'll get an answer. We we talked to Heidi, and Heidi was the exact right person to talk to. She was fresh on the job. She'd only been there for, like, a week and a half. And I sent her my email saying, hey. I'd like to do this blah blah blah blah blah. And within thirty minutes, she wrote back to me and said, that sounds fun. And the rest is history. Yeah. She just started working on it. And whenever she made any kind of mistake or pickup, she'd have 30 people reach out to her and tell her, I actually don't think I would like the job of being the decision maker at that park because there's so many people that have opinions about that place. And the whole process, I think, has been a testament to
[00:17:56] Ben Marolf:
what I think we've been really trying to do on a broad scale with the people who are involved in disc golf right now in the state of Utah at kind of a high level. And that's taking a community of people who I think have been underserved in the state, but especially on a local level for a long time, and giving them a voice that is professional and direct and organized and focused and understands what we want and where we want it and how much it's gonna cost and what we're gonna need to do to get it done and where we can help out. Yeah. And bringing that package to the county and also to different city jurisdictions and just figuring out, okay, how can we make this as easy for for you as possible? Finally got through to them where it wasn't just a bunch of dirty hippies, which we are.
And that there it was, like, very directed, but also cohesive in the sense that we we were gonna work with them. Right? Like, there were some things that we wanted to see as part of the redesign and as part of what we wanna see at CrickCut. There are some concessions that we made with them. But the product that we've received now is so much better than what we had before. And also, the investment that they made showed us that they care about a long term future for Creekside in such a way that I think the result of the project was a lot more than just an upgraded Creekside. I think the result of the project was a really good first step in what has now been a series of many other steps with the county and also other jurisdictions that have opened up their eyes to what disc golf is and what it can be when it's being looked at by a group of people who are focused and know what they're talking about and how they can make things happen in a space because we're just trying to be partners with them. It's their land. They own it. It's their property.
How can we help you guys make our lives better by making your lives easier and showing you what a good disc golf course looks like and being a good voice for our community? I think that that's just what disc golf has struggled with is how do we market ourselves? What's our message to you know, on a nationwide level? Like, who are we? And why does why does our game matter? And I think once we got that through to them, it's, you know, it's returned in spades. Like, we got USWDGC coming to freaking Creekside next year. Like
[00:20:15] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. Well that wouldn't have happened three years ago. No. It couldn't have. Yeah. It couldn't have. It was impossible, but the T pads weren't years ago. No. It couldn't have. Yeah. It couldn't have. It was impossible, but the tee pads weren't ready. It was not major championship level. It was a different course.
[00:20:24] Ben Marolf:
Okay. It's a completely different course. Different course. Yep. Cheers. And, you know, as a result of that, the county probably looks Cheers to the county. You know, we've we've got a a course that gets all of this use, and we're getting a ton of value. Because at the end of the day, the public taxpayer dollar is it's spent no matter what on maintenance, on upkeep upkeep of a space. And the value that they are getting back is in use hours. It's in user hours. Like, people are using this space because that's really how valuable the space is. And not only did Creekside continue to get smashed, but in the last year year, from '23 to '24, it jumped up 50% Serious. And with with play count, which is bananas. Was closed. That is for eight weeks. Nuts. That is a crazy amount of increase of users from a space that was already really well used. And so not only are they seeing that, you know, the course is in better shape, but they're also seeing a positive benefit to their user base as a result. There are more people using public spaces because of their redesign.
[00:21:21] Sean Kelley:
No. I think it was also a good just it was a good test, like, as with the few courses that we built before this. It was a good it was a good test in asking for what you want. Because before, we'd always ask for, like, the basics, the minimum basics, which is usually just baskets, maybe signs. But at this point, stressing where like, I remember going with Hole 3, where we wanted that and where we wanted, like, the little hangout spot. Uh-huh. Like, going back and forth with Heidi, and then even I'm gonna blank on the guy's name who did all the work, but shout out to him Travis. Job. Everyone calls him Travis. But It says on his name tag, there's a e. It's Travis.
[00:21:57] Scott Belchak:
But whose name is Travis? I I mean, I love the guy. Travis is not here. Utah. Utah. Yeah. It's a weird weird name. Out here. Yeah. Well, you know what? I actually learned a ton about this because when I was walking with Heidi, I was still I was still in the mode of of being happy for what I get. You know? Oh, we're out here. We we're talking about Creekside. They're finally listening. And I was hoping for maybe seven or eight nice benches, nine benches.
[00:22:21] Ben Marolf:
And she was like, no. You're getting a bench on every hole. I was like, oh, okay. Great. Been my favorite part of the whole thing. Yeah. Just last week, I was sitting. It was nice out for the first time in six months, and I was sitting on a bench at Hole 15, you know, the signature hole probably at Creekside. And just it was sunny, and people were playing. And I was sitting there, and I was so happy that there was a place for me to sit and just relax. And I could sit there for two hours and just watch people throw shots. No. So so an interesting thing that I learned this week from the UDisc growth report
[00:22:49] Scott Belchak:
is that there's, there's a couple of nerds in the Northeast that are statisticians and and, like, economic scientists or whatever. They're Economists?
[00:22:58] Ben Marolf:
I don't know. Economic scientists? Sure. Why not?
[00:23:02] Scott Belchak:
They they they put together this study, and I think it's currently under peer review because that's what nerds do, is they write papers and they're like, hey, everybody. Look at this. Tell me if it's right or not. Right? But they did it. And they're trying to prove the dollar amount that is kind of saved by a person by playing disc golf, playing a single round of disc golf. Right? Like, how much is it worth to a person to go play? How much is their bank account positively impacted by that instead of being negatively impacted by going to the movies or going to a football game or going to the bar. Right? $76. Per what? Per round of disc golf. A sure person way wealthier.
Well, you probably are because you're not going to the movies as much, and you're not That's true. You know? Doing a free sport. You're doing a free sport out in nature. And, you know, that that should be a new number that we should be harping on, a new study that we should be taking out and blasting out everywhere by saying, look, this is good for the economy. Because, yes, they're not spending that money, which is bad for the economy, but it's also good for the economy because they have more money to spend in other places. Right?
[00:24:03] Sean Kelley:
It's a good positive impact. Does that make sense? I guess in general, it's what your time is worth playing out there. $30.36
[00:24:11] Ben Marolf:
bucks an hour.
[00:24:12] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense. I mean, that's the volunteer
[00:24:16] Sean Kelley:
hour rate for people in Utah. People people are aren't like they're just not spending I mean, they're not like, yeah, your round is free. But all the supplies you need to to, you know, they're they're going towards Ben. They're going towards other other shops and stuff like going towards baskets. Or they're going towards bags, footwear, clothing, and so once people get into it I mean, these guys out there that I see them every time they're playing. They're in their disc golf outfit. Like, some people have, like, disc golf out outfits. Like, so I don't think the money is not worth it. Is a disc golf is disc golf outfits. Yeah. But I'm I'm getting to that point too. My clothes are disc golf course. The money's being spread around. It's just not
[00:24:54] Ben Marolf:
I think what the economists are are looking at, the economic scientists are looking at The scientists. Are is not because money money obviously is being spent on disc golf, and god bless all of you who do that. But the the gist of it, I think, is that if you're gonna go play a round of golf, right, you've got your your your, you know, your your golf clubs Yeah. They're golf pack guys. They're more. In golf. Like, you you've got your kit, you know. And and and to buy a set of clubs and to buy a set of hundred bucks for a good club. How much how much did your new club set up? I got them from Timo, so $300. Okay. I also have an equal amount of ball golf clubs as I do disc golf disc. Well, there you go. I see. Wow. So you still spend money you spend money on both habits, but to go play a round of golf is gonna cost you, $30.30 7 $75.
Easy. $35. Yeah. For for nine holes and 75 for 18 if you're if you're lucky. 45 walking. Yeah. And if you got wanna get a cart 30.
[00:25:46] Scott Belchak:
There you go. For for me, it's worth it because I love both versions of golf, ball and disc. What about foot golf? Yeah. Ben, I do have a question for you. If you were to go back in time, knowing what we know now to the point where we're starting this project, what would you do different?
[00:26:03] Ben Marolf:
That's a good question. I think A 40 foot piece. The thing is Mando. It's number 16. 16 needs a giant Mando. Wouldn't be a Scott Belcher or is it an out one? Dude dude, we put that thing up, and I was like,
[00:26:18] Dustin Hanson:
oh, what have I done?
[00:26:21] Ben Marolf:
That's awesome. That's the best thing. You made up for it with a baby version of Today at the Babybelle. We did. We did. The I think I don't know if there's anything that could be done differently. Because I think, you know, at the end of the day, it's a relationship between the disc golfers and the folks who are trying to take this thing on in the county. And we pushed, I think, for everything that we wanted to see at that course. And we made concessions, and the county made concessions. And what we have is what we have. I don't think that there's anything that we would have done that we could have done differently. I think there's things that we still want to see done, and I think there's still things that will be done because of the way that the relationship with the county has evolved throughout this process. I think that at this point, we're not asking for anything crazy or groundbreaking.
We're asking for you know, we see and we have case studies for it. Right? Like, we see the success that putting a mulch pathway down from 10 all the way through the course had for erosion control and for places for people to walk and how well it works too. Like, people just follow the path because we're all lemmings. And if there is a path there, people will walk there. And so we have case studies for, okay, mulch works. So, okay, we have this muddy area here. Can we get some more mulch, please? We've got trees falling down every winter, so let's grind them up and put the mulch here. The county loves that. There's just small things that I think we wanna see done to the course that will eventually get done when the county a has budget for it or when we scream loud enough and long enough, which we'll continue to do, I'm sure. So, you know, I think we we still wanna see a couple well put fences here and there. I mean, there's a couple hole positions that could be changed and adjusted, but they're all all small things. It's all, like, very much finishing touches and nothing monumental or fundamental about Creekside. I think Creekside will stay as it is ideally for the rest of time in perpetuity, and we'll see that in, you know, six years when it reaches historic status, ideally. Yeah. Well, they also dumped a ton of money into it. A hundred thousand dollars, and I think we should say the county put in a ton of money and hours and time and effort into this course. And thank you, Salt Lake County, if you are listening for doing that. But also, it wasn't enough.
Absolutely. I mean Not enough. If you wanna put a bow on the thing. Right? That's why we're still having this conversation about stuff when we go out there. You know, if we play around at disc golf out there, it's like, oh, man. How cool would a fence on Hole Number 11 be so that someone doesn't get smoked in the back of a head by an 18 year old throwing their first Firebird and has no idea where it's gonna go, and someone gets injured because discs hurt people when thrown in their general direction. And so there's still some things that we could make happen that are small that would really, like, wrap things up nicely. Yeah. It's just like the finishing touches on it, but it's in a good place. If we had a bar graph
[00:29:05] Scott Belchak:
of where you were talking about hours spent in the park versus total dollars spent on that amenity across Salt Lake County's whole inventory of park systems, I bet you that it would be pennies and the ratio would be off the charts for Creekside, and it wouldn't be anywhere close. Everything else would be like pools, they're so expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and you gotta staff them. It's a huge thing. Of course, there's revenue tied to it. It has to be if you're gonna support that kind of thing. But disc golf is so cheap to put in. Even if you're gonna do it right. Like, the $200,000 they spent basically is
[00:29:42] Nick Jennings:
nothing compared to the hours spent in that park over the last forty years. Nothing. A fifth of what they pay to install a jungle gym at a park. They've got their money's worth. Yeah. I think it may only be second to the Jordan River Parkway itself as far as use by the community Sure. In Salt Lake County. Like, there's so many people that go to Creekside. But let's talk about some of the so obviously, the redesign happened in 2023. The course was closed for eight weeks. It reopened with new tee pads, new baskets, you know, a whole brand new design, a couple of different tee pads on a couple of different holes as well. I think that kinda goes back to what we've talked about as far as, like, the new standard of of disc golf course installation.
Right? Yeah. Where you have the the six by eight. Six by 12. Six by 12. Two by four. Two by four. Meters.
[00:30:31] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. Oh, is it is the meters the standard? For some reason, disc golf's like like, we do everything in feet, but then now now their new standard for for tee pads are in meters. It's like, okay. Make up your minds. Is this American sport? What is this? But the there was also a lot of, like, irrigation work done, you know, at Creekside as well. Yeah. This year. Let's talk about that a little bit. I think we will see the benefit of that more next winter and next spring than this spring, but we are already seeing the benefits of it this winter and this spring. And especially on the back nine, they went and put in a robust irrigation system that covers essentially holes eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, and 17, 18, 15, 16.
And those were areas that because of the profound amount of use that Creekside gets as a space, had no choice but to be beaten into submission by feet and carts and dogs and everything else that comes with this Millions of footsteps. And traffic. As a result, the grass could not grow. We we would essentially in the summer when it was too dry and the grass was struggling, we would kill it with our feet. And now with the irrigation system, the grass has a chance to continue to proliferate even during dry periods, which when living in a desert, you're like, oh, we should stop watering things. But that would be a far more expensive project than putting in pipes in the ground and watering the grass, which is what they did. And as a result, already this winter, we are are I'm seeing especially in front of a place like Hole Twelve's tee pad, which last year would have been a lake at this point in the year.
Just a little bit of grasses that popped up last fall and summer and actually took root and didn't get wiped out are right now sucking up all of the water that typically would have just been sitting there. And so the whole Back 9 where for most of the last probably thirty years was a mud pit in the wintertime and into the spring is drier because the water is being used by the plants that were benefited by the irrigation in the summer. And that's pretty cool to see. And they did a huge irrigation project last year. They crushed it. They were, like, hitting a hole in three hours and putting in everything trenching, piping, getting things in and closing it all back up and letting us play disc golf the whole time. It's wild they did that. Course was closed, sort of, but it's definitely very slow during that time, but it was also crazy that they even must play.
And I think we'll really see the benefits of it this coming season where both in the summer and in the winter and spring. There's gonna be benefits on both ends. Yeah. Their benefit also
[00:33:10] Dustin Hanson:
is when they put that irrigation system in, they put in, curbing, which acts as like a natural boundary, kinda. Yeah.
[00:33:18] Ben Marolf:
Wild. That was a stroke of luck. Serious. Yeah. We love it though. So lucky. Yeah. It's a seed barrier. For those wondering too, because a lot of people are like, what is that giant curbing going through? It's a seed barrier to keep the area to the parking lot side, essentially, of that barrier a more mode manicured space. So that We want grass. Park users because while Creekside is at its core of disc golf course, it's still a multiuse space. And so it kind of separates the majority of the disc golf course from that little grass space and also creates a really great OB line on 31217 And 18, circumstantially.
[00:33:53] Nick Jennings:
Yeah. So in addition to the irrigation, they also put in new steps Yep. For hole eight and hole 10. Yep. Oh, yeah. Right? Going up up the hills Mhmm. Which also helps with the erosion, right, of those hills, and the safety factor for those who play. Yep. Because I I know, like, before that got installed, I took a tumble down the hill on eight Yeah. You know, once or twice. But and then recently, there's been a kiosk installed as well. Like,
[00:34:22] Ben Marolf:
what can we expect on that kiosk? We were asking this a lot because we got I think Scott probably and I definitely got messages from the county saying, hey. Stop putting anything in terms of advertisement up on our tee signs about anything that happens at this course, anything upcoming. Upcoming. That that's when all the baskets got stickered. And on the flip side of that, we are also required by the county to announce when there is something upcoming to announce that there's gonna be a course closed. So we are required to announce something is happening, but we didn't have any place to put that something is happening. And that was part of our initial conversation with them is we would love to have a kiosk. And it didn't happen. We didn't have any money for it. Blah blah blah. And all of a sudden, some money appeared. And this fall, really, they installed. Just showed up. It showed up, which is awesome. Because they knew we wanted it. And so now kiosk is there. And so the expectation, I think, for that kiosk is for it to be a community board for upcoming events is my is my real hope that they just let us kind of have community events upcoming at this course. It'd be pretty cool. I think on my end, I'm gonna ask the count because they want things to still be kind of county branded. And so I'm gonna ask the county if it's cool if every month I just publish a like, I'll just laminate a calendar. Like, here's what's happening at the course this month. Just go to UDisc, check-in, be able to, like, post. Here's what You know, Tuesday leagues. Here is you know, we've got our our Saturday. Sure. Exactly. Whatever we're doing. Everything's gonna be like, what? What?
[00:35:44] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. There. So kiosk is there. It's not it's not nearly what I what I was expecting though, because I I told them I wanted it 26 feet high. Like, I don't want anyone to be able to step ladder to go up to the top of it. Just because you show that Salt Lake County doesn't have as much money as Draper City to be able to install it. You want to be able to see the Triple Manda bottom from the top of the kiosk. Go forward at Creekside. No. In in all seriousness, I was a little bit disappointed by it because when I was talking to them about a kiosk, we had all agreed with everybody that I was talking to, and they're pretty high up that we wanted to do a triple panel kiosk and have one panel be the course map, one panel be a community board, and the other panel be a history of the course and information about SteadyEd and Walter Fredericks.
It was I was a little bit disappointed to see that because at some point, you need to continue to follow-up on exactly what you've talked about with these people that you're talking with because they're busy. They've got things going on. They're not only thinking about one park. They're thinking about all these parks and all these other things and meet meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting. It's important that you document your discussions and then remind them of the discussion and ask them about funding and and ask them if you can help with the funding and maybe run a a tournament to help raise some funds and stuff like that. Because I think my biggest regret, going back to that question, is not pushing harder for the hills across the river. I think we probably could have got them if we would have grown a pair, but I was too sensitive to the fact that this was even happening at all that I didn't wanna push.
I didn't know how much weight we had to push, so I didn't push. I think we had way more weight than we thought we did.
[00:37:18] Ben Marolf:
It's a sticky thing too because looking back at before so those whole when those holes used to be in, regardless of whether or not the rest of the course is playing, how the rest of the course played, I think thinking back to how you know, everyone has fond memories of the things that came before. Right? People still tell me that, oh, I really miss Old Hole 4 at Creekside. Sure. The Hole 5 is better now than Old Hole 4 was, so it's a great replacement. But thinking back to before when those holes were permanent install over there, the top of the hill being unchanged, Hole 10 now coming down, was always a backup spot because a lot of the casual players or people were just looking to play fast would skip the cross river holes and not play it, and they would just jump in front of the group that just played Right. And things would get gummed up. And looking at the course now, how it is, I think, you know, is it luck? Is it good vision for how the course should play? I think it's a testament to the course design currently that it was able to handle 50% more capacity in the course of a year currently that it was able to handle 50% more capacity in the course of a year and play as smooth as it did because I felt like it played fast. Most of what people responded to is that the flow of the course is so much better now than it was before. And sure we have the nostalgia for the old holes across whatever, but were they going to just continue to cause some sort of backup in the end?
Probably. You know? I'm still at busy days at Creekside. I'm going out to film holes, and that's all I have to do. And it's just how it is. It's how disc golf is if you're trying to catch quick thirty minute round. And so, you know, yeah, we might have been able to get them, but also things happen the way they happened. And I
[00:38:57] Scott Belchak:
love 18 holes of disc golf. It's classic. And Creekside's classic. 18 holes is classic, and they're all great. So we've got the major coming up for Creekside. I think you're you're gonna be acting as the tournament director for that course. Mhmm. Correct? That's correct. Correct. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit? Like, is there anything you wanna talk about when it comes to running a US or BGC? Tournament round for US limits? Yeah. Sure. I mean, I think Creekside is gonna play really well for whatever division we send there. We know thinking. It's I think the kind of decision made was that
[00:39:27] Ben Marolf:
all of our courses are gonna be fine for any division outside of FPL. Mhmm. And so sure. Yeah. So we're probably gonna throw some of our more nimble crisscross too much. And it's only 1,000. Redesign. Yeah. Yeah. Redesign it. Our more nimble nimble players maybe down at down at the bottoms and maybe our our more slower folks at roots because it's so mellow. And so I I imagine that Creekside will probably see, like, let's think maybe FA one, FA two. Juniors, it would play great for juniors too. Yeah. Pretty much everybody. Pretty much everybody. And it's got a lot so versatile. And so I think what I'm looking forward to about that is once given the slate of who's playing the course, that's that's the beauty of Creekside, honestly, is because it is a course that has so many positions. You can make that course play. Neg 18 is what you're shooting for. You can also make that course play like I'm hoping I shoot out in the park. Yeah. And, you know, we we saw at last two years at Creekside open, you know, in, like, Neg 5, Neg 6, Neg 7 was, like, ten fifty rated, and that's awesome. Like, that's that's pro tour level standards in terms of a course, how it plays to to ratings. Yeah. I'm so surprised by that.
And it's with with very minimal adjustments to the course with playing essentially Creekside as is plus adding a couple tasteful OBs here and a couple Mandos there, you can really make that course separate pretty quickly. And yeah. So I'm I'm I'm just jazzed. I think that there's been a lot of effort and momentum put into our community in the last few years, and we are seeing the results not only from spaces that were being given and being redone, because when we had Tim Messer come out and do the visit, I think, yes, we were pitching Salt Lake is what can we do to get US women's out here?
How does this look for our bid? But I think also we were pitching, how can we get disc golf here next year, the year after that, the year after that? How can we make this a spot? How can we continue to spot like Salt Lake City? Because we know that we've got a sweet crowd and a very passionate community, but the rest of the world doesn't really see it. And I think it's worth spotlighting what we have here because it's pretty cool.
[00:41:42] Nick Jennings:
I agree. I think that the community here is fantastic, personally. And there's a lot of cool things coming on the horizon. So with Creekside, obviously, we're I'm assuming that we're having the twenty seventh annual Creekside Open this year. What what what is that gonna happen? Second, third weekend in September.
[00:41:59] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. It's kinda been the on the calendar. It's funny when I email Diane, our county contact, she already has it blocked out every year. It's already set up for you. Just gotta pay me for the two weekends. And, yeah, Creekside will also be featured in the Utah State championships this year. It'll also be featured in the Salt Lake Open this year. And we'll be getting a lot of play time out there. And I think it's because it's a community favorite for sure with good reason. And so, yeah, we'll have the Crookshead open out there again, obviously. Yeah. Out of Creekside this fall. And I think we'll have Discraft sponsored again this year. Trying to spread the love out a little bit in terms of manufacturer sponsorships.
[00:42:34] Nick Jennings:
Yeah. With the the whole across the river side of the park Yeah. Right?
[00:42:40] Scott Belchak:
What happened to the old baskets that were in Creekside? Creekside? The old baskets across the way or the ones all of them. Oh, they're sitting in contractor's backyard. I'll I'll tell you this. I'll I'll tell you the whole story. I've I had a plan to get them to the nonprofit to have them available at the '20 fifth Creekside open for an auction for each basket so that people could buy the one that they wanted to, and all proceeds would go to benefit the course. Take home a part of creek. But it's very difficult for the county to get public property into the hands of private ownership.
There was a bad actor that took advantage of the county's grace in the late eighties, and so they put the clamp down on on that. So all things that are public items, they go through this thing called the public procurement process or something. So they list them on a website, and then the public at large has an opportunity to go bid on it. They told me that they were gonna be doing that. And so I said, great. That day, I went and set up my search queries in the software that they use so that I could get notified the instant it went up there so I could just grab them, auction them off, and donate a bunch of money to the county. They never went up there. So and then we fast forward a year later, and someone on Facebook has posted a picture of the Creekside basket saying, it looks like the Creekside baskets are just in someone's backyard, and they posted a picture of Jared's backyard.
Yeah. It was one of his subs. So one of the contractor's subs was in his backyard and saw these baskets and took a photo, put it on social media, and then I screenshotted it and sent it to Jared and said, hey. You still have these baskets, Jared? And he called me right away, and you know how he sounds. He's the sweetest guy. And he's just like, I can't believe someone's in my backyard taking pictures of my backyard. And so then I contacted the county. I contacted Jonathan Redes and said, hey, Jonathan. Like, these baskets are still there. I thought they were gonna go up for public procurement so I could put a bid in on them and no response. Then I talked to Jared. Jared said that the county contacted him. They wanted him to pallet them up and drop them off at their yard. So they're just at Salt Lake County yard somewhere just collecting dust. It's interesting. You talked to Craig Myrick. Yep. Craig says that they still have the whole set of brand new ones of those ones that they pulled from Creekside that's at Taylorsville. They're just sitting in a yard somewhere collecting dust. Like, the public paid for these things, and they're just sitting in a yard
[00:45:02] Sean Kelley:
because they don't want the public to have them. That's so weird. Yeah. It is weird. Makes no sense. Because they came down to the I remember there was one fellow asking for the bench from Old Hole 5. He made it, and he had his dog's name carved in it and all this other stuff, and he wanted the bench. It was just No. Yeah. Yeah. So they the the the county deemed it as their property. And I'm pretty sure I'm like, where's that thing sitting? That thing's in a dumpster somewhere. I think he came and got it, didn't he? I don't know. Maybe he did. Came and got it. But I'm pretty sure, like, once the word got out that, you know, basically, we weren't be able to just it wasn't a snatch and grab to grab the things you wanted before we put in the new stuff Uh-huh. That I'm pretty sure maybe it was a late date. I'm going to get that bench. But, yeah, I was pretty sad to not hear that we couldn't end up. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of
[00:45:46] Scott Belchak:
people out there that would definitely love to get their hands on one of those baskets. Yeah. Yeah. Well and it is interesting to talk to the county about this because they don't really want us to change the park because it's not our park. It's their park. And so they want to be the ones that are in charge of making decisions and changing it, yet they still want us to go out there and clean it up. But they don't want us to make changes to it, and that's not how disc golf works. You know? Like, because I like to tell everybody that that disc golf courses grow like fungus.
That's how they evolve and they grow. You know? Because the people who go and play these places identify with these places, and they're there all the time. And they they change it, and these courses are malleable, but they're also very specific to what we want. You know? And the county doesn't know that this tree is important to us or that that branch specifically needs to be there. You know? And we do. And so courses tend to grow in this fungus type way. And the county, I don't think it jives with them because it doesn't jive with how they view how parks should be, where parks you know, this is how they're designed. People walk on this path. They go to this bench. They sit there for a little while. They watch the sunset. They maybe walk around here. They visit the bathroom. They take a drink from the drinking fountain. It's like disc golfers are a whole different breed of customers that they just don't understand.
[00:47:05] Sean Kelley:
Well, from any of the throws or the air in throws, they see the course from every different angle. So, you know, whether you're pitching out from a bad tee shot or, you know, you lace a line, no one can see the course as specifically as one of those players. Going back to any specific trees that tree's important in the idea that it makes this hole harder, you know, or it it it gets into the, the mental game of some player that just a tree 20 feet straight in the middle. You may have 30 feet on both sides of this tree.
[00:47:39] Scott Belchak:
Seven out of 10 times, she's gonna hit that tree. For sure. Just out of your mental game. Whole five at Creekside right now, the whole the tree on the right side. How many times do you hit it? Going back to the tree that was at the I never hit that tree. Before it was Oh, speaking of trees, we will I would like to plug our next episode. We're having Dan Langford on, and we're talking about a course with no trees. So that'll be a good segue. Yeah.
[00:48:00] Nick Jennings:
Going back to why I was asking about the baskets. Sure. Yeah. For a second. I know we kinda we kinda like squirrel for a second there, but he's really wants the practice basket. Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. No. I don't I don't I don't want it for me. I want one. But what I was thinking is, what if we were able to utilize that space on the other side of the river and do a putting course? Sure. Like a nine basket,
[00:48:24] Ben Marolf:
nothing longer than 80 feet. The reason that those baskets got pulled is because the folks who are abutting the land were complaining about disc golfers being there. And there was probably also one too many fires that occurred because of things that disc golfers may do. And those impacts and those Fire issues led to the county saying, okay. We understand the things that are happening over here is too close to these private landowners home for us to feel like we can take on this is just my my guess. Take on the risk of having something start on our property that we can't control that spreads to theirs. The irony of that is that in return, a lot of those public land owners have completely impeded onto the egress that is public land and have started setting up shop effectively on that property. No one's here anymore. We're going to put our our retaining wall just a little bit further along here and just a little bit further along here because no one's checking it. No one's looking over here anymore. No one's doing anything about it because the disc golfers aren't over there throwing Frisbees anymore. So the county's losing out a little bit, I think, on their physical space, and people are legitimately actually stealing property from them by using it Of course. But also liability.
[00:49:40] Scott Belchak:
They also said they'd get their guns out.
[00:49:42] Ben Marolf:
The private property owners? If disc golf comes back here, we're getting our guns out. Sure. So we're gonna have an Oregon situation perhaps happen back there. But it's you know, I think a pitching pot over there would be sweet. I think a better lens for us to now look though is because because our relationship with the county is where it's at and because it is better. Instead of using that space looking beyond across the across the street. Yes. And I would like to speak with you about that. I think we should go over there for the major.
[00:50:08] Scott Belchak:
And use it for some holes? Yeah. Use it for some temples. After you play seven, you get up and you walk across the road right there. Sure. And then go play some New par four. And then come back and then play hole eight. We'll consider it. Yeah. It's all part of part of the big Cottonwood
[00:50:23] Ben Marolf:
Creek Regional Park. It's a regional park that stretches Creek Side is just one section of it, and there's a whole another area over there that has an equestrian lease holding. It has trails. It has probably I think tennis courts over there
[00:50:36] Scott Belchak:
behind the Lions Club. This is an another reason why disc golf has a hard time growing because disc golfers don't pay attention to anything else than their space that they're on currently. You know? It's true. It's like, we have our spaces that we go.
[00:50:47] Ben Marolf:
And until you step out out and look up and look around and say, like, well, what about over here? Yeah. Looking to the beyond. I mean, I would love to see in five years, you know, if the let's say USWDC smokes it in the county, city, state notices what we're doing. I wanna see a disc golf course in Sugar House Park. That sort of thing. I don't know why not. You know? Yeah. It's a Dell. Give us Temple Dell. Sure. Sugar House. Temple Dell. Every resort we have should and can support disc golf. There are so many spaces in which adding a disc golf course, including across the street from Creekside, would not negatively impact what's currently happening there enough that it would be a net negative. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you could you can add disc golf to so many different places as a multi use sport and especially with an educated community, which I think we have at this point, to increase our footprint
[00:51:39] Nick Jennings:
in ways that are creative and unique. So cross river, I don't think it'll ever happen because the land owners there are a stick in the mud, and there's a lot of money in those neighborhoods, and money talks. And same with that school. And it is what it is, but there's other places to explore. The limited amount of land in the valley. Yeah. What they're holding on to. What are the chances that we can get some sort of fence or barrier between the school Build a fence. Build a fence. And preach. I I know. I was I was actually the other day. People out. Around, like, 02:30, three o'clock. Yeah. And I had to wait for, like, thirty minutes on the tee pad a whole five. Yes. Because there was just a stream of kids Yes. Going and luckily, I was aware enough to not throw right at this. Well, I think if you
[00:52:23] Scott Belchak:
are not aware and you throw and you hit a kid, that may be a good way of getting a fence built. Yeah. So start aiming for the children. The
[00:52:31] Ben Marolf:
50 points per kid. The county the county wants the county this is and this is a a lesson in in money No injuries. Talking tears.
[00:52:40] Sean Kelley:
Just just hit him with potty tears. Yes. Sitting in the inside of the woods crying, screaming for his mother. Everybody needs to go out of the shop.
[00:52:45] Nick Jennings:
Screaming for his mother. Everybody's not coming out of the shop. Everybody needs to go to the shop and get a DX leopard.
[00:52:52] Ben Marolf:
The the interesting thing about the the the fence, the wall, we'll call it, is that the county would is not opposed to it. The disc golfers are certainly not opposed to it. School is opposed to it. And the way I look at it is similar to how I used to look at giant cruise ships in Southeast Alaska. I didn't think you're gonna go there. Wow. I was on a small Let's get caught up by the Eagles card. You know, 60 person boat that was built for seeing Southeast Alaska in the most perfect, beautiful, unique way. And we would see these giant floating cities flow by us with people on with thousands of people on them and think that is not the best way to see Southeast Alaska. I had the benefit of working for this, like, very kind of bougie company where the people who we had on board were paying $20,000 a week to be there. And so we were serving that experience.
And the people on those gigantic cruise ships were paying $300 to be there, and that's a difference. And so it was more accessible to them than it was to the average jail. And so the way to justify, in my mind, the existence of those things was that someday, maybe the next John Muir is on that boat. Somebody who's gonna do really cool things is being inspired by what they're seeing in Southeast Alaska because they got here cheap. In in some way, shape, or form, Alaska's having an impact on their life. That's how I look at the school. And what I've seen at that school that I think is really cool and that I think makes up for the fact that I have to sometimes wait on a weekday for the kids to pass through. And are they hitting each other with discs? Because that's what we need. We do. We need more kids hitting other kids with discs.
But but that's the thing is you see, it's like, you know, at the end of the day, if we want our sport to be seen, legitimized, respected, it is it needs to continue to grow, and it needs to continue to have more advocates. And maybe Scott Belchak is currently attending Wasatch Charter School. And in fifteen years, when he gets out of high school, all he's gonna wanna do because he's been inspired by the fact that he has this really cool disc golf course next to him and got really into the sport because it's right there on his little walk to the parking lot that the private citizens send their kids to that charter school use even though it's for public benefit, but that's beyond the point, are inspired by disc golf and and have access to disc golf. And I see their gym teacher using the disc golf course regularly Oh, nice. To play disc golf. Yeah. But he doesn't start on hole one. Disc golf. Go start on hole one. Nice. To play disc golf. Yeah. But he doesn't start on hole one. Disc golf. Go start on hole one. Don't hop in line. All I'm picturing when you say a little Scott Belchak is that instead of a a 26 foot triple mando, they're gonna do a 50
[00:55:40] Scott Belchak:
Absolutely. That's their dream. Yeah. We're gonna beat Scott at his No question.
[00:55:43] Dustin Hanson:
So I think he can build the biggest Mando on the planet? No.
[00:55:47] Ben Marolf:
I think that's it. Prove him wrong. No good answer to it's Multi Use park. The kids walk through it. They're never not going to until they come up with a parking solution at that school, which they never will because they have access to the parking lot even though they shouldn't. And so There's a lot of things wrong with it. Well, I don't It's how it is.
[00:56:03] Scott Belchak:
Because you you can't build on that hill anyway. Well, obviously, you can do whatever you want to with it. Like, you can put stairs on it, which they told us that we couldn't do whatever we want to with that thing. It's just a freaking dirt pile. Like, come on. Like, that's the biggest bull. Like, they oh, we can't touch this hill because we can't do any improvement on it. It's Army Corps of Engineers' bull. It's a big old freaking pile of dirt. It is a big pile of dirt. So dumb. And then you look at what that school's doing. They've got, like, their whole nook carved out of it. They moved a bunch of that earth, and they built a outdoor classroom on it. I mean, Like, what are they
[00:56:40] Sean Kelley:
doing? It's like just build a big retaining wall. They barely even let us put a t pad out there. Enlarge their parking lot so that now the parents can pick the kids up in their parking lot. Money talks. Real quick story about
[00:56:51] Nick Jennings:
the kids coming through that. Kinda early when I was starting to play discoloration, I guess it was about a year ago now. I went to Creekside to play kind of an afternoon round, and I'm walking to the tee pad a whole two, as like seven 10 year olds are walking from the other side, from, like, the Kraken side to the tee pad hole two. And so I I get there and I said, hey, do you guys care if I if I, you know, go ahead and throw and and kind of play through? And I hit an ace in in their face. Ace in their face. And it was my second ace ever, and it was my first pure ace. Did you get any high fives? No. But they went nuts. That's awesome. That's good. And then six holes later, I heard that they saw me from, like, across the the way, and I heard them talking about it still. Famous. That that may be a better likeness.
[00:57:45] Ben Marolf:
We're probably talking about it right now. But, Ben, thank you so much for for coming on tonight. Any final words for us before we close? I guess the only thing that I would have to say is thanks for having me on, and thanks to Scott and Sean and Nick and Dustin for your work in our community and helping to continue to grow the sport because there are a lot of people in Salt Lake City and in Utah who really care a lot about the sport of disc golf. There are not a lot of people who are doing the work. And if you are one of those people who is listening who cares a lot about disc golf but has not done any of the work, join us, volunteer, show up, and and help advocate for your for your sport in a bigger way because this is what we need here is more people who are willing to do the tremendous amount of work that this takes.
We would love more help growing everything that's happening. Right now, there's a very small faction of people doing a very large amount of things. There are more of us out there that could be doing more for what we are doing here. I am. Get your ass out there. Yeah. You know? Do stuff. And volunteer. There's a lot of opportunities right now. If you love this game, if you are appreciative of the new courses that are going in, if you are appreciative of Creekside being redesigned, if you are appreciative of anything happening in disc golf that has been an improvement in the state of Utah, give back in some way. You know, whether that's that's talking to your it's as easy as showing up to a county meeting and advocating for disc golf. But it is hard for me personally sometimes to go to things like the county meetings about this $3,000,000 project that Scott visioned out and that would be sweet as an incredibly awesome addition to to the county and seen the same three people who I saw at the same meetings three months ago yelling the same things to the same people.
Because all the county now thinks and all the city now thinks is is is there's just three fanatics who are really excited about disc golf. Our community is much bigger than that. We need more people to be involved, to speak up, to say things, but also to do it in the right way. And so, you know, follow the example and the advice of those who are doing it currently. Ask if you're scared to volunteer to get involved. There's a lot of people who are happy to show you the way. So I think that's it. We've got great community. Get involved. Do things. Disc golf needs you. Playing disc golf's fun. Helping grow disc golf's funner.
[01:00:07] Nick Jennings:
Well, that is gonna do it for us here on this episode of the Elevate Utah Disc Golf Podcast. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you out there.
Welcome in to the Elevate Utah podcast. I am your host Nick Jennings joined by Dustin.
[00:00:32] Scott Belchak:
Sean. And I'm Scott.
[00:00:33] Nick Jennings:
And today, we have a very special guest with us as well. Would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. Yeah. I'm I'm Ben Maroff. I
[00:00:41] Ben Marolf:
throw Frisbees.
[00:00:43] Scott Belchak:
No no greater words have been spoken ever. I don't think I've ever heard you say your last name. I've always thought it was Maroff. No one knows how to pronounce it. It it has a lot of variations. Make a stand for that. Yeah. It's a problem. Exactly.
[00:00:54] Ben Marolf:
More off. Yeah. So we have Ben here who is the owner of the another round shop in is it technically Murray or Midvale? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Murray. Would you like to tell us a little bit? Because no one knows who you are or what you're doing in here. I'm playing disc golf for twenty years. Moved out to Utah eight years ago. And the small rural town I came from in Central Minnesota had a shop that had been there for over a decade. Town of, like, 16,000 people. And Salt Lake didn't have a dedicated disc golf shop, so reached out to some dudes from the East Coast who had a pretty cool model and, brought a dedicated disc golf shop to Utah in 2024 in April. So we got about a month and four day, a month and three days until we've been open for a year
[00:01:34] Scott Belchak:
and loving it. So the hot topic question that everybody is constantly asking, you mentioned this business model with another round. They sell beer. Yep. So when is that coming?
[00:01:43] Ben Marolf:
A lot of momentum is happening right now with it. When I was finding my initial space, I just had to make sure that it was plausible that we could have beer there, which means it had to be 400 feet walking from a park and a quarter mile from a church and 16 miles from the nearest UFO sighting and had to fit all of these different criteria to have the ability to have some sort of liquor license on it. That's step one. And that space qualifies for that. Step two was having it be recreationally accessible. There's a couple different ways to get a liquor license in Utah and the classic ones you think about are bar, tavern, restaurant. We're not gonna be a restaurant. We're not gonna serve food. We're not gonna be a tavern or bar because you have to be 21 or older to enter those. And so the other way you can get around it is by pursuing a recreational on-site permit.
And in the eighties, when the good people of Utah were writing the code for the zoning for Murray, there was a prohibition put in for what they referred to as amusements in '88 when they wrote the zoning. And so that was a it was in an effort to prohibit and dissipate the excitement around dance halls and roller rinks, which were places where they thought during that current climate in Utah that the youth were gonna go to sin and do things. And so, that zoning was but that zoning was there, and so it prohibited amusements. And disc golf is considered an amusement under the whole purview of the legalese of Murray City, at least. And so in order to have a recreational on-site permit, we had to have some aspect of recreation on-site. But because the zoning for the area prohibited amusements, we were not able to pursue that aspect of a liquor license. So I've spent the last year submitting a zoning amendment. Well, I submitted the zone amendment a while ago, but waiting for the zoning amendment to come up on the docket for the zoning committee, which it did in December, and received unanimous approval from the zoning committee to suggest an approval to the city council of Murray at the city council's next meeting in March.
I have to go to that meeting. It is very likely that at that meeting, they will approve the suggestion of the zoning committee to approve my zoning amendment to the area, which will then allow us to pursue a liquor license with the city and generally city acceptance and approval The national What are we what are we talking here? We're just talking beer? Just beer on tap. The recreational on-site permit is similar to one in a bowling alley where you just have to you can go in and get something at the bar, and you don't have to you just get ID'd there. And it's all 5% or less beer on tap, and that's it. So no tequila sunrises, no mules of any kind,
[00:04:29] Scott Belchak:
and just beer on tap. And we'll still have kombucha because it's Utah. And What about high points? No. No high points. No high points? None of that funny percent or less. 5% or less. Okay. Manufactured and brewed in Utah. That's correct. It still has to be 5%. If not out of a can, then it is 5% or less. I wonder how many more people are employed in the state of Utah in the in the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control than than the other counterparts where they don't have all these rules. You know? Is it just like a bonanza for these people? Oh, sure.
[00:04:57] Nick Jennings:
I don't even wanna think about that. Utah liquor license or liquor laws are just
[00:05:01] Ben Marolf:
back ass words. You know? Yeah. It's just a lot of work that you have to do to get it. I'm finding in helping open up these other stores around the country too that it's not just us. There are places where you can get one for 25¢ and a kiss, but in Utah, it's a little harder. But other places are not all that dissimilar. There's a lot of good movement here, and it's been cool to see Murray City help me navigate this whole thing. They've been the ones who have been suggesting all of these different decisions that I make Yeah. They want you there. In an effort to keep our business in Murray City. And they're stoked about the idea. So it's a slow burn, but we're just going through the channels that we got. And, yeah, that's that. Anyways, Frisbee store and maybe beer in the future. Ben Moroff, thanks for joining us. Ben, happy to be here. I think that's our time. Yep. Yep. Welcome to Elevate Utah, d a b c, Liquor Law podcast.
[00:05:47] Scott Belchak:
On
[00:05:49] Nick Jennings:
a serious note though, Ben, so you were talking about helping open up some additional locations for the another round franchise brand, if you will. Yeah. Kinda what what is your role in that? So currently, the title that we're operating under for me is director of franchising for the national side of the brand. And so
[00:06:07] Ben Marolf:
what that means is that every single application, I guess you can call it, every person who reaches out hoping to start a shop in their town, that all comes through me. And then I've set those applications and decide who's worth calling, essentially. And then talk to people about their hopes for what a shop might look like in their town. And then I just start analyzing their scene and seeing, okay, you know, is there already a couple, like, really beloved mom and pop shops in that area because it's just not gonna be a good fit. Right? Like, a disc golf shop in even in Salt Lake City, where we have a really rabid community, you have to sell such a unbelievable amount of Frisbees to pay rent and your employees and everything that comes with running a business that it it's you gotta have the right spot and the right person for the job anywhere. And so I'm because of the success and the model that the Salt Lake Shop sort of has set, the burden sort of fell onto me as something that I was excited to do for the whole brand of of figuring out, okay, how can we implement this other places, and how can I help other franchisees along the way? Because the whole Another Round brand is still very much in its infancy, is growing rapidly, but also less rapidly than it could have if we were just accepting every application that came in and putting stores in every place. It's, like, just to get one to signing the franchise agreements, you know, a month or two of me just talking to people and sussing them out a little bit and then kinda giving them the playbook, you know, if we get to that point. So since I've come on, I've helped with Hattiesburg, Lula, North Cove, Nashville, Twin Cities. And then we're announcing another one probably in the next week somewhere in North Carolina. And then I'm working on a couple in the general vicinity of Georgia, Washington, and Massachusetts.
How's the Twin Cities store doing? It's coming along. So the owner of that store, Nick Benoit, is a phenomenal human being, first and foremost. He and his wife had kind of a little Instagram going called mister and missus Bogie that was very popular there. And right now, they're in the phase of trying to figure out location and working through local laws. They're kinda like we were with our liquor laws here. His current hiccup is that every landlord in the state of Minnesota typically requires a personal guarantee of eighteen months of rent for someone to get into the space. There was no guarantee like that in Utah. There hasn't been any of our other locations or if there has been, it hasn't been a problem. But, essentially, the landlords, they're asking for, okay, if you fail or go under, you're on the hook for, you know, more or less $60,000.
And not having $60,000 sitting aside like most people don't, the collateral would be his home essentially or something like that. We've got, like, two or three different things that we're kind of attacking to get him to a good point. So we're navigating right now kind of starting the shop in that space without having a physical space because all the conversations that we've been having have been surrounding the the fact that at the end of the day, if the shop is just a physical location where all you do is sell discs, that's that's not what it should be. So we're before he finds a space, we're working on, you know, building up his reputation in the scene and and starting to just do things. Like, do everything that you can without having a space. Start selling discs. Because at the end of the day, if he's gonna be required to have a huge personal guarantee put down, if he doesn't have any overhead of paying for employees in a space, like, you can make a lot of money pretty quickly if you don't have to cover all that. And so that's sort of what we're working on right now is just figuring out how to how how to do that and at the same time, continuing to look for places there that don't require personal
[00:10:05] Sean Kelley:
personal guarantee. How many shops around the country actually sell liquor or sell beer? Is it like a Charlotte, Asheville,
[00:10:12] Ben Marolf:
Greenville, Austin, Dallas will. They're opening this weekend. So at least half of them out there probably do sell beer? I think Lula's gonna have theirs. North Cove will have theirs. I know the Denver One does. Denver for sure does. So, yeah, I think almost all like, the goal is for all of them to get there or be doing it actively. And it's just so tied to the local laws, and that's it. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Now as interesting as the another round side of things is,
[00:10:39] Nick Jennings:
that's actually not why we have you on here today, Ben. Oh, thank god.
[00:10:43] Ben Marolf:
So let's talk about your budget now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so lost. Yeah. Well, this is gonna be news to Dustin then as well. But basically,
[00:10:50] Nick Jennings:
you know, we're going through the different courses in Utah. The course that you are kind of taking ownership of, if you will, of the maintenance, the basket moving, all of that kind of stuff is Creekside. Right? Walter Frederick Morrison Park. Right? Who was the inventor of the Frisbee. And from Utah. From Richfield. Yeah. And what was it? The sixth most played course in the world?
[00:11:12] Ben Marolf:
This year? I think it was the fourth. Russia in the nation? Sixth month on the planet. It put Utah as the fourth
[00:11:18] Scott Belchak:
as far as yeah. It's the fourth busiest course in The United States and the sixth busiest course in the world. Yep. Yeah. That's pretty nuts. That's according to UDisc, and that's, you know, their best bet, but it doesn't count doubles. It doesn't count the freaking sanctioned singles leagues that we're running out there, which has another hundred. You know? It it it doesn't count The hundred people that play. Go and play. Play. There's so many people who don't use UDisc that go and play there. I wouldn't I'd actually be surprised if it wasn't right behind Morley.
Right behind it.
[00:11:48] Nick Jennings:
So there there have been a lot of changes to the course over the last couple of years. Starting with a massive redesign in 2023. Yes. Yep. Yep. Walk us through what went into that. Like, how did how did that come about? The whole conversation started
[00:12:04] Ben Marolf:
with the Creekside Open in, like, early spring of twenty twenty three. And the conversation began because Elevate took over running the Creekside Open for 2023. And as a part of that, we were looking for a good manufacturer with which to partner as a title sponsor. And we reached out to a couple of them, but we were kinda keying in on MVP. And as part of our ask of them for title sponsorship, one of the big things we were asking for was, hey. Can we get either a really heavy discount or donation of, new baskets for Creekside? Because Creekside receiving as much play as it had, you know, before it was the sixth most played course in the world, it was probably the tenth, you know, according to uDisc, and has always been massively popular. And because it's been there for so long, those baskets had seen millions of hits. The course the pads were cracked. The tee pad areas were muddy. The way you got between hole to hole was unclear. The signage was okay, but not great. Maybe better than it is now, actually.
The signs were alright. Impetus I was we're all thinking it. Yeah. We are. But we'll get better someday. I'm gonna be honest. I wasn't thinking it because I Hayden Seager. I played it
[00:13:24] Nick Jennings:
in a high school with an ultimate Frisbee, and I didn't actually play it with disc golf discs until after the redesign. Sure. They were homey and and campy and fun. But Yeah. It it might make sense for us to rewind even a little bit further
[00:13:38] Scott Belchak:
from the Creekside Open too because Creekside Open was the kind of the impetus of us getting it done. But a little bit about the backstory and the history of this course is it was designed by Steady Ed Hedrick, the inventor of disc golf Yeah. With PDGA. It was one of his earlier designs. Yep. And he designed that thing when there were very few trees in there and put it in the ground. And it's actually not as old as Roots, believe it or not. Roots was a disc golf course before Creekside. It was an international disc golf center. It was one of study ed's IDGCs.
[00:14:11] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. So Roots Roots is one of the first courses in the world.
[00:14:15] Scott Belchak:
But then it died a horrible death when they turned it into the par three, and then that's why it's called Roots. It went back to its roots. But Creekside is an old course. It's only a few years away from us being able to label it historic. And that message is what got this thing done because we're coming up on twenty fifth. Twenty fifth annual Creekside Open. The twenty fifth annual Creekside Open. I took that tournament over, Elevate Utah did. Ben and I ran it. And I sent an email out to this contact at the county named Heidi and said, hey. This is who I am. I'm Scott from Elevate, Utah. We're a nonprofit that you know, blah blah blah blah. We're coming up on the twenty fifth annual Creekside Open on a course that was designed by a steady Ed and sits in memorial of the inventor of the Frisbee, Walter Frederick Morrison, and the course needs work. It would be amazing if we got new baskets by the twenty fifth. That's all we asked for. That's all I reached out and asked for. I did have one of my packets that said, look at this problem. Look at this problem. Look at this problem. But that's not what I asked for. I didn't ask for what they did. I just showed them the problems and just said, let's get some new baskets.
[00:15:23] Ben Marolf:
And we had the offer from MVP with that. That was like we were bringing that to them saying we have not only would we like you to pay for this because this is your property, but also we have a really sweet deal for you here. You can get good value and upgrade your course at
[00:15:38] Scott Belchak:
the same time. Yeah. We basically had baskets for as cheap as you could possibly get. I'm, like, saving we basically saved $6,000 on those thing. It took me email after email and phone call after phone call to make sure that they bought the MVP ones because they really just wanted to remain consistent with the new disc golf developments that they were making. And so we narrowly avoided having veterans there because they had just put veterans in Bingham Creek, and they were just so hard line about keeping consistent. Yet the signs are different. The tee pads are different sizes, the mandos are all different. It's like, you have no consistency out here whatsoever between your properties, between Taylorsville. Like, you got three courses. Like, you know, if you're gonna say you're gonna be consistent, why don't you just be consistent and do what you did from Creekside to to Beam Creek and to Taylorsville? If you wanna be consistent, use Creekside as a model now, please.
[00:16:28] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. And so that was I mean, that was the start of it. Is is we went in, it was it was you, me, Chris Norman, and we sat down with two or three folks from the county and had a very disheartening yet somewhat encouraging conversation with them where they didn't really give us anything. Like, there was no, yes, we're gonna do this. There was no stoke about it. It was just, like, very forthright and, like, okay. We see we understand that there's a problem, but also, like, is it worth our time of day is kind of what it felt like. Well and also Salt Lake County is so overstaffed.
[00:17:02] Scott Belchak:
Like, it needs Elon to come in and be like, you're out of here, and you're out of here, and you're out of here. You know? Like, it's it's so overstaffed that that even if you think you find the right person, it's not the right person. You know? They gotta talk to to Teddy, and then Teddy's gotta go talk to Marge. You know? And then maybe you'll get an answer. We we talked to Heidi, and Heidi was the exact right person to talk to. She was fresh on the job. She'd only been there for, like, a week and a half. And I sent her my email saying, hey. I'd like to do this blah blah blah blah blah. And within thirty minutes, she wrote back to me and said, that sounds fun. And the rest is history. Yeah. She just started working on it. And whenever she made any kind of mistake or pickup, she'd have 30 people reach out to her and tell her, I actually don't think I would like the job of being the decision maker at that park because there's so many people that have opinions about that place. And the whole process, I think, has been a testament to
[00:17:56] Ben Marolf:
what I think we've been really trying to do on a broad scale with the people who are involved in disc golf right now in the state of Utah at kind of a high level. And that's taking a community of people who I think have been underserved in the state, but especially on a local level for a long time, and giving them a voice that is professional and direct and organized and focused and understands what we want and where we want it and how much it's gonna cost and what we're gonna need to do to get it done and where we can help out. Yeah. And bringing that package to the county and also to different city jurisdictions and just figuring out, okay, how can we make this as easy for for you as possible? Finally got through to them where it wasn't just a bunch of dirty hippies, which we are.
And that there it was, like, very directed, but also cohesive in the sense that we we were gonna work with them. Right? Like, there were some things that we wanted to see as part of the redesign and as part of what we wanna see at CrickCut. There are some concessions that we made with them. But the product that we've received now is so much better than what we had before. And also, the investment that they made showed us that they care about a long term future for Creekside in such a way that I think the result of the project was a lot more than just an upgraded Creekside. I think the result of the project was a really good first step in what has now been a series of many other steps with the county and also other jurisdictions that have opened up their eyes to what disc golf is and what it can be when it's being looked at by a group of people who are focused and know what they're talking about and how they can make things happen in a space because we're just trying to be partners with them. It's their land. They own it. It's their property.
How can we help you guys make our lives better by making your lives easier and showing you what a good disc golf course looks like and being a good voice for our community? I think that that's just what disc golf has struggled with is how do we market ourselves? What's our message to you know, on a nationwide level? Like, who are we? And why does why does our game matter? And I think once we got that through to them, it's, you know, it's returned in spades. Like, we got USWDGC coming to freaking Creekside next year. Like
[00:20:15] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. Well that wouldn't have happened three years ago. No. It couldn't have. Yeah. It couldn't have. It was impossible, but the T pads weren't years ago. No. It couldn't have. Yeah. It couldn't have. It was impossible, but the tee pads weren't ready. It was not major championship level. It was a different course.
[00:20:24] Ben Marolf:
Okay. It's a completely different course. Different course. Yep. Cheers. And, you know, as a result of that, the county probably looks Cheers to the county. You know, we've we've got a a course that gets all of this use, and we're getting a ton of value. Because at the end of the day, the public taxpayer dollar is it's spent no matter what on maintenance, on upkeep upkeep of a space. And the value that they are getting back is in use hours. It's in user hours. Like, people are using this space because that's really how valuable the space is. And not only did Creekside continue to get smashed, but in the last year year, from '23 to '24, it jumped up 50% Serious. And with with play count, which is bananas. Was closed. That is for eight weeks. Nuts. That is a crazy amount of increase of users from a space that was already really well used. And so not only are they seeing that, you know, the course is in better shape, but they're also seeing a positive benefit to their user base as a result. There are more people using public spaces because of their redesign.
[00:21:21] Sean Kelley:
No. I think it was also a good just it was a good test, like, as with the few courses that we built before this. It was a good it was a good test in asking for what you want. Because before, we'd always ask for, like, the basics, the minimum basics, which is usually just baskets, maybe signs. But at this point, stressing where like, I remember going with Hole 3, where we wanted that and where we wanted, like, the little hangout spot. Uh-huh. Like, going back and forth with Heidi, and then even I'm gonna blank on the guy's name who did all the work, but shout out to him Travis. Job. Everyone calls him Travis. But It says on his name tag, there's a e. It's Travis.
[00:21:57] Scott Belchak:
But whose name is Travis? I I mean, I love the guy. Travis is not here. Utah. Utah. Yeah. It's a weird weird name. Out here. Yeah. Well, you know what? I actually learned a ton about this because when I was walking with Heidi, I was still I was still in the mode of of being happy for what I get. You know? Oh, we're out here. We we're talking about Creekside. They're finally listening. And I was hoping for maybe seven or eight nice benches, nine benches.
[00:22:21] Ben Marolf:
And she was like, no. You're getting a bench on every hole. I was like, oh, okay. Great. Been my favorite part of the whole thing. Yeah. Just last week, I was sitting. It was nice out for the first time in six months, and I was sitting on a bench at Hole 15, you know, the signature hole probably at Creekside. And just it was sunny, and people were playing. And I was sitting there, and I was so happy that there was a place for me to sit and just relax. And I could sit there for two hours and just watch people throw shots. No. So so an interesting thing that I learned this week from the UDisc growth report
[00:22:49] Scott Belchak:
is that there's, there's a couple of nerds in the Northeast that are statisticians and and, like, economic scientists or whatever. They're Economists?
[00:22:58] Ben Marolf:
I don't know. Economic scientists? Sure. Why not?
[00:23:02] Scott Belchak:
They they they put together this study, and I think it's currently under peer review because that's what nerds do, is they write papers and they're like, hey, everybody. Look at this. Tell me if it's right or not. Right? But they did it. And they're trying to prove the dollar amount that is kind of saved by a person by playing disc golf, playing a single round of disc golf. Right? Like, how much is it worth to a person to go play? How much is their bank account positively impacted by that instead of being negatively impacted by going to the movies or going to a football game or going to the bar. Right? $76. Per what? Per round of disc golf. A sure person way wealthier.
Well, you probably are because you're not going to the movies as much, and you're not That's true. You know? Doing a free sport. You're doing a free sport out in nature. And, you know, that that should be a new number that we should be harping on, a new study that we should be taking out and blasting out everywhere by saying, look, this is good for the economy. Because, yes, they're not spending that money, which is bad for the economy, but it's also good for the economy because they have more money to spend in other places. Right?
[00:24:03] Sean Kelley:
It's a good positive impact. Does that make sense? I guess in general, it's what your time is worth playing out there. $30.36
[00:24:11] Ben Marolf:
bucks an hour.
[00:24:12] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense. I mean, that's the volunteer
[00:24:16] Sean Kelley:
hour rate for people in Utah. People people are aren't like they're just not spending I mean, they're not like, yeah, your round is free. But all the supplies you need to to, you know, they're they're going towards Ben. They're going towards other other shops and stuff like going towards baskets. Or they're going towards bags, footwear, clothing, and so once people get into it I mean, these guys out there that I see them every time they're playing. They're in their disc golf outfit. Like, some people have, like, disc golf out outfits. Like, so I don't think the money is not worth it. Is a disc golf is disc golf outfits. Yeah. But I'm I'm getting to that point too. My clothes are disc golf course. The money's being spread around. It's just not
[00:24:54] Ben Marolf:
I think what the economists are are looking at, the economic scientists are looking at The scientists. Are is not because money money obviously is being spent on disc golf, and god bless all of you who do that. But the the gist of it, I think, is that if you're gonna go play a round of golf, right, you've got your your your, you know, your your golf clubs Yeah. They're golf pack guys. They're more. In golf. Like, you you've got your kit, you know. And and and to buy a set of clubs and to buy a set of hundred bucks for a good club. How much how much did your new club set up? I got them from Timo, so $300. Okay. I also have an equal amount of ball golf clubs as I do disc golf disc. Well, there you go. I see. Wow. So you still spend money you spend money on both habits, but to go play a round of golf is gonna cost you, $30.30 7 $75.
Easy. $35. Yeah. For for nine holes and 75 for 18 if you're if you're lucky. 45 walking. Yeah. And if you got wanna get a cart 30.
[00:25:46] Scott Belchak:
There you go. For for me, it's worth it because I love both versions of golf, ball and disc. What about foot golf? Yeah. Ben, I do have a question for you. If you were to go back in time, knowing what we know now to the point where we're starting this project, what would you do different?
[00:26:03] Ben Marolf:
That's a good question. I think A 40 foot piece. The thing is Mando. It's number 16. 16 needs a giant Mando. Wouldn't be a Scott Belcher or is it an out one? Dude dude, we put that thing up, and I was like,
[00:26:18] Dustin Hanson:
oh, what have I done?
[00:26:21] Ben Marolf:
That's awesome. That's the best thing. You made up for it with a baby version of Today at the Babybelle. We did. We did. The I think I don't know if there's anything that could be done differently. Because I think, you know, at the end of the day, it's a relationship between the disc golfers and the folks who are trying to take this thing on in the county. And we pushed, I think, for everything that we wanted to see at that course. And we made concessions, and the county made concessions. And what we have is what we have. I don't think that there's anything that we would have done that we could have done differently. I think there's things that we still want to see done, and I think there's still things that will be done because of the way that the relationship with the county has evolved throughout this process. I think that at this point, we're not asking for anything crazy or groundbreaking.
We're asking for you know, we see and we have case studies for it. Right? Like, we see the success that putting a mulch pathway down from 10 all the way through the course had for erosion control and for places for people to walk and how well it works too. Like, people just follow the path because we're all lemmings. And if there is a path there, people will walk there. And so we have case studies for, okay, mulch works. So, okay, we have this muddy area here. Can we get some more mulch, please? We've got trees falling down every winter, so let's grind them up and put the mulch here. The county loves that. There's just small things that I think we wanna see done to the course that will eventually get done when the county a has budget for it or when we scream loud enough and long enough, which we'll continue to do, I'm sure. So, you know, I think we we still wanna see a couple well put fences here and there. I mean, there's a couple hole positions that could be changed and adjusted, but they're all all small things. It's all, like, very much finishing touches and nothing monumental or fundamental about Creekside. I think Creekside will stay as it is ideally for the rest of time in perpetuity, and we'll see that in, you know, six years when it reaches historic status, ideally. Yeah. Well, they also dumped a ton of money into it. A hundred thousand dollars, and I think we should say the county put in a ton of money and hours and time and effort into this course. And thank you, Salt Lake County, if you are listening for doing that. But also, it wasn't enough.
Absolutely. I mean Not enough. If you wanna put a bow on the thing. Right? That's why we're still having this conversation about stuff when we go out there. You know, if we play around at disc golf out there, it's like, oh, man. How cool would a fence on Hole Number 11 be so that someone doesn't get smoked in the back of a head by an 18 year old throwing their first Firebird and has no idea where it's gonna go, and someone gets injured because discs hurt people when thrown in their general direction. And so there's still some things that we could make happen that are small that would really, like, wrap things up nicely. Yeah. It's just like the finishing touches on it, but it's in a good place. If we had a bar graph
[00:29:05] Scott Belchak:
of where you were talking about hours spent in the park versus total dollars spent on that amenity across Salt Lake County's whole inventory of park systems, I bet you that it would be pennies and the ratio would be off the charts for Creekside, and it wouldn't be anywhere close. Everything else would be like pools, they're so expensive to build, expensive to maintain, and you gotta staff them. It's a huge thing. Of course, there's revenue tied to it. It has to be if you're gonna support that kind of thing. But disc golf is so cheap to put in. Even if you're gonna do it right. Like, the $200,000 they spent basically is
[00:29:42] Nick Jennings:
nothing compared to the hours spent in that park over the last forty years. Nothing. A fifth of what they pay to install a jungle gym at a park. They've got their money's worth. Yeah. I think it may only be second to the Jordan River Parkway itself as far as use by the community Sure. In Salt Lake County. Like, there's so many people that go to Creekside. But let's talk about some of the so obviously, the redesign happened in 2023. The course was closed for eight weeks. It reopened with new tee pads, new baskets, you know, a whole brand new design, a couple of different tee pads on a couple of different holes as well. I think that kinda goes back to what we've talked about as far as, like, the new standard of of disc golf course installation.
Right? Yeah. Where you have the the six by eight. Six by 12. Six by 12. Two by four. Two by four. Meters.
[00:30:31] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. Oh, is it is the meters the standard? For some reason, disc golf's like like, we do everything in feet, but then now now their new standard for for tee pads are in meters. It's like, okay. Make up your minds. Is this American sport? What is this? But the there was also a lot of, like, irrigation work done, you know, at Creekside as well. Yeah. This year. Let's talk about that a little bit. I think we will see the benefit of that more next winter and next spring than this spring, but we are already seeing the benefits of it this winter and this spring. And especially on the back nine, they went and put in a robust irrigation system that covers essentially holes eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, and 17, 18, 15, 16.
And those were areas that because of the profound amount of use that Creekside gets as a space, had no choice but to be beaten into submission by feet and carts and dogs and everything else that comes with this Millions of footsteps. And traffic. As a result, the grass could not grow. We we would essentially in the summer when it was too dry and the grass was struggling, we would kill it with our feet. And now with the irrigation system, the grass has a chance to continue to proliferate even during dry periods, which when living in a desert, you're like, oh, we should stop watering things. But that would be a far more expensive project than putting in pipes in the ground and watering the grass, which is what they did. And as a result, already this winter, we are are I'm seeing especially in front of a place like Hole Twelve's tee pad, which last year would have been a lake at this point in the year.
Just a little bit of grasses that popped up last fall and summer and actually took root and didn't get wiped out are right now sucking up all of the water that typically would have just been sitting there. And so the whole Back 9 where for most of the last probably thirty years was a mud pit in the wintertime and into the spring is drier because the water is being used by the plants that were benefited by the irrigation in the summer. And that's pretty cool to see. And they did a huge irrigation project last year. They crushed it. They were, like, hitting a hole in three hours and putting in everything trenching, piping, getting things in and closing it all back up and letting us play disc golf the whole time. It's wild they did that. Course was closed, sort of, but it's definitely very slow during that time, but it was also crazy that they even must play.
And I think we'll really see the benefits of it this coming season where both in the summer and in the winter and spring. There's gonna be benefits on both ends. Yeah. Their benefit also
[00:33:10] Dustin Hanson:
is when they put that irrigation system in, they put in, curbing, which acts as like a natural boundary, kinda. Yeah.
[00:33:18] Ben Marolf:
Wild. That was a stroke of luck. Serious. Yeah. We love it though. So lucky. Yeah. It's a seed barrier. For those wondering too, because a lot of people are like, what is that giant curbing going through? It's a seed barrier to keep the area to the parking lot side, essentially, of that barrier a more mode manicured space. So that We want grass. Park users because while Creekside is at its core of disc golf course, it's still a multiuse space. And so it kind of separates the majority of the disc golf course from that little grass space and also creates a really great OB line on 31217 And 18, circumstantially.
[00:33:53] Nick Jennings:
Yeah. So in addition to the irrigation, they also put in new steps Yep. For hole eight and hole 10. Yep. Oh, yeah. Right? Going up up the hills Mhmm. Which also helps with the erosion, right, of those hills, and the safety factor for those who play. Yep. Because I I know, like, before that got installed, I took a tumble down the hill on eight Yeah. You know, once or twice. But and then recently, there's been a kiosk installed as well. Like,
[00:34:22] Ben Marolf:
what can we expect on that kiosk? We were asking this a lot because we got I think Scott probably and I definitely got messages from the county saying, hey. Stop putting anything in terms of advertisement up on our tee signs about anything that happens at this course, anything upcoming. Upcoming. That that's when all the baskets got stickered. And on the flip side of that, we are also required by the county to announce when there is something upcoming to announce that there's gonna be a course closed. So we are required to announce something is happening, but we didn't have any place to put that something is happening. And that was part of our initial conversation with them is we would love to have a kiosk. And it didn't happen. We didn't have any money for it. Blah blah blah. And all of a sudden, some money appeared. And this fall, really, they installed. Just showed up. It showed up, which is awesome. Because they knew we wanted it. And so now kiosk is there. And so the expectation, I think, for that kiosk is for it to be a community board for upcoming events is my is my real hope that they just let us kind of have community events upcoming at this course. It'd be pretty cool. I think on my end, I'm gonna ask the count because they want things to still be kind of county branded. And so I'm gonna ask the county if it's cool if every month I just publish a like, I'll just laminate a calendar. Like, here's what's happening at the course this month. Just go to UDisc, check-in, be able to, like, post. Here's what You know, Tuesday leagues. Here is you know, we've got our our Saturday. Sure. Exactly. Whatever we're doing. Everything's gonna be like, what? What?
[00:35:44] Scott Belchak:
Yeah. There. So kiosk is there. It's not it's not nearly what I what I was expecting though, because I I told them I wanted it 26 feet high. Like, I don't want anyone to be able to step ladder to go up to the top of it. Just because you show that Salt Lake County doesn't have as much money as Draper City to be able to install it. You want to be able to see the Triple Manda bottom from the top of the kiosk. Go forward at Creekside. No. In in all seriousness, I was a little bit disappointed by it because when I was talking to them about a kiosk, we had all agreed with everybody that I was talking to, and they're pretty high up that we wanted to do a triple panel kiosk and have one panel be the course map, one panel be a community board, and the other panel be a history of the course and information about SteadyEd and Walter Fredericks.
It was I was a little bit disappointed to see that because at some point, you need to continue to follow-up on exactly what you've talked about with these people that you're talking with because they're busy. They've got things going on. They're not only thinking about one park. They're thinking about all these parks and all these other things and meet meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting. It's important that you document your discussions and then remind them of the discussion and ask them about funding and and ask them if you can help with the funding and maybe run a a tournament to help raise some funds and stuff like that. Because I think my biggest regret, going back to that question, is not pushing harder for the hills across the river. I think we probably could have got them if we would have grown a pair, but I was too sensitive to the fact that this was even happening at all that I didn't wanna push.
I didn't know how much weight we had to push, so I didn't push. I think we had way more weight than we thought we did.
[00:37:18] Ben Marolf:
It's a sticky thing too because looking back at before so those whole when those holes used to be in, regardless of whether or not the rest of the course is playing, how the rest of the course played, I think thinking back to how you know, everyone has fond memories of the things that came before. Right? People still tell me that, oh, I really miss Old Hole 4 at Creekside. Sure. The Hole 5 is better now than Old Hole 4 was, so it's a great replacement. But thinking back to before when those holes were permanent install over there, the top of the hill being unchanged, Hole 10 now coming down, was always a backup spot because a lot of the casual players or people were just looking to play fast would skip the cross river holes and not play it, and they would just jump in front of the group that just played Right. And things would get gummed up. And looking at the course now, how it is, I think, you know, is it luck? Is it good vision for how the course should play? I think it's a testament to the course design currently that it was able to handle 50% more capacity in the course of a year currently that it was able to handle 50% more capacity in the course of a year and play as smooth as it did because I felt like it played fast. Most of what people responded to is that the flow of the course is so much better now than it was before. And sure we have the nostalgia for the old holes across whatever, but were they going to just continue to cause some sort of backup in the end?
Probably. You know? I'm still at busy days at Creekside. I'm going out to film holes, and that's all I have to do. And it's just how it is. It's how disc golf is if you're trying to catch quick thirty minute round. And so, you know, yeah, we might have been able to get them, but also things happen the way they happened. And I
[00:38:57] Scott Belchak:
love 18 holes of disc golf. It's classic. And Creekside's classic. 18 holes is classic, and they're all great. So we've got the major coming up for Creekside. I think you're you're gonna be acting as the tournament director for that course. Mhmm. Correct? That's correct. Correct. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit? Like, is there anything you wanna talk about when it comes to running a US or BGC? Tournament round for US limits? Yeah. Sure. I mean, I think Creekside is gonna play really well for whatever division we send there. We know thinking. It's I think the kind of decision made was that
[00:39:27] Ben Marolf:
all of our courses are gonna be fine for any division outside of FPL. Mhmm. And so sure. Yeah. So we're probably gonna throw some of our more nimble crisscross too much. And it's only 1,000. Redesign. Yeah. Yeah. Redesign it. Our more nimble nimble players maybe down at down at the bottoms and maybe our our more slower folks at roots because it's so mellow. And so I I imagine that Creekside will probably see, like, let's think maybe FA one, FA two. Juniors, it would play great for juniors too. Yeah. Pretty much everybody. Pretty much everybody. And it's got a lot so versatile. And so I think what I'm looking forward to about that is once given the slate of who's playing the course, that's that's the beauty of Creekside, honestly, is because it is a course that has so many positions. You can make that course play. Neg 18 is what you're shooting for. You can also make that course play like I'm hoping I shoot out in the park. Yeah. And, you know, we we saw at last two years at Creekside open, you know, in, like, Neg 5, Neg 6, Neg 7 was, like, ten fifty rated, and that's awesome. Like, that's that's pro tour level standards in terms of a course, how it plays to to ratings. Yeah. I'm so surprised by that.
And it's with with very minimal adjustments to the course with playing essentially Creekside as is plus adding a couple tasteful OBs here and a couple Mandos there, you can really make that course separate pretty quickly. And yeah. So I'm I'm I'm just jazzed. I think that there's been a lot of effort and momentum put into our community in the last few years, and we are seeing the results not only from spaces that were being given and being redone, because when we had Tim Messer come out and do the visit, I think, yes, we were pitching Salt Lake is what can we do to get US women's out here?
How does this look for our bid? But I think also we were pitching, how can we get disc golf here next year, the year after that, the year after that? How can we make this a spot? How can we continue to spot like Salt Lake City? Because we know that we've got a sweet crowd and a very passionate community, but the rest of the world doesn't really see it. And I think it's worth spotlighting what we have here because it's pretty cool.
[00:41:42] Nick Jennings:
I agree. I think that the community here is fantastic, personally. And there's a lot of cool things coming on the horizon. So with Creekside, obviously, we're I'm assuming that we're having the twenty seventh annual Creekside Open this year. What what what is that gonna happen? Second, third weekend in September.
[00:41:59] Ben Marolf:
Yeah. It's kinda been the on the calendar. It's funny when I email Diane, our county contact, she already has it blocked out every year. It's already set up for you. Just gotta pay me for the two weekends. And, yeah, Creekside will also be featured in the Utah State championships this year. It'll also be featured in the Salt Lake Open this year. And we'll be getting a lot of play time out there. And I think it's because it's a community favorite for sure with good reason. And so, yeah, we'll have the Crookshead open out there again, obviously. Yeah. Out of Creekside this fall. And I think we'll have Discraft sponsored again this year. Trying to spread the love out a little bit in terms of manufacturer sponsorships.
[00:42:34] Nick Jennings:
Yeah. With the the whole across the river side of the park Yeah. Right?
[00:42:40] Scott Belchak:
What happened to the old baskets that were in Creekside? Creekside? The old baskets across the way or the ones all of them. Oh, they're sitting in contractor's backyard. I'll I'll tell you this. I'll I'll tell you the whole story. I've I had a plan to get them to the nonprofit to have them available at the '20 fifth Creekside open for an auction for each basket so that people could buy the one that they wanted to, and all proceeds would go to benefit the course. Take home a part of creek. But it's very difficult for the county to get public property into the hands of private ownership.
There was a bad actor that took advantage of the county's grace in the late eighties, and so they put the clamp down on on that. So all things that are public items, they go through this thing called the public procurement process or something. So they list them on a website, and then the public at large has an opportunity to go bid on it. They told me that they were gonna be doing that. And so I said, great. That day, I went and set up my search queries in the software that they use so that I could get notified the instant it went up there so I could just grab them, auction them off, and donate a bunch of money to the county. They never went up there. So and then we fast forward a year later, and someone on Facebook has posted a picture of the Creekside basket saying, it looks like the Creekside baskets are just in someone's backyard, and they posted a picture of Jared's backyard.
Yeah. It was one of his subs. So one of the contractor's subs was in his backyard and saw these baskets and took a photo, put it on social media, and then I screenshotted it and sent it to Jared and said, hey. You still have these baskets, Jared? And he called me right away, and you know how he sounds. He's the sweetest guy. And he's just like, I can't believe someone's in my backyard taking pictures of my backyard. And so then I contacted the county. I contacted Jonathan Redes and said, hey, Jonathan. Like, these baskets are still there. I thought they were gonna go up for public procurement so I could put a bid in on them and no response. Then I talked to Jared. Jared said that the county contacted him. They wanted him to pallet them up and drop them off at their yard. So they're just at Salt Lake County yard somewhere just collecting dust. It's interesting. You talked to Craig Myrick. Yep. Craig says that they still have the whole set of brand new ones of those ones that they pulled from Creekside that's at Taylorsville. They're just sitting in a yard somewhere collecting dust. Like, the public paid for these things, and they're just sitting in a yard
[00:45:02] Sean Kelley:
because they don't want the public to have them. That's so weird. Yeah. It is weird. Makes no sense. Because they came down to the I remember there was one fellow asking for the bench from Old Hole 5. He made it, and he had his dog's name carved in it and all this other stuff, and he wanted the bench. It was just No. Yeah. Yeah. So they the the the county deemed it as their property. And I'm pretty sure I'm like, where's that thing sitting? That thing's in a dumpster somewhere. I think he came and got it, didn't he? I don't know. Maybe he did. Came and got it. But I'm pretty sure, like, once the word got out that, you know, basically, we weren't be able to just it wasn't a snatch and grab to grab the things you wanted before we put in the new stuff Uh-huh. That I'm pretty sure maybe it was a late date. I'm going to get that bench. But, yeah, I was pretty sad to not hear that we couldn't end up. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of
[00:45:46] Scott Belchak:
people out there that would definitely love to get their hands on one of those baskets. Yeah. Yeah. Well and it is interesting to talk to the county about this because they don't really want us to change the park because it's not our park. It's their park. And so they want to be the ones that are in charge of making decisions and changing it, yet they still want us to go out there and clean it up. But they don't want us to make changes to it, and that's not how disc golf works. You know? Like, because I like to tell everybody that that disc golf courses grow like fungus.
That's how they evolve and they grow. You know? Because the people who go and play these places identify with these places, and they're there all the time. And they they change it, and these courses are malleable, but they're also very specific to what we want. You know? And the county doesn't know that this tree is important to us or that that branch specifically needs to be there. You know? And we do. And so courses tend to grow in this fungus type way. And the county, I don't think it jives with them because it doesn't jive with how they view how parks should be, where parks you know, this is how they're designed. People walk on this path. They go to this bench. They sit there for a little while. They watch the sunset. They maybe walk around here. They visit the bathroom. They take a drink from the drinking fountain. It's like disc golfers are a whole different breed of customers that they just don't understand.
[00:47:05] Sean Kelley:
Well, from any of the throws or the air in throws, they see the course from every different angle. So, you know, whether you're pitching out from a bad tee shot or, you know, you lace a line, no one can see the course as specifically as one of those players. Going back to any specific trees that tree's important in the idea that it makes this hole harder, you know, or it it it gets into the, the mental game of some player that just a tree 20 feet straight in the middle. You may have 30 feet on both sides of this tree.
[00:47:39] Scott Belchak:
Seven out of 10 times, she's gonna hit that tree. For sure. Just out of your mental game. Whole five at Creekside right now, the whole the tree on the right side. How many times do you hit it? Going back to the tree that was at the I never hit that tree. Before it was Oh, speaking of trees, we will I would like to plug our next episode. We're having Dan Langford on, and we're talking about a course with no trees. So that'll be a good segue. Yeah.
[00:48:00] Nick Jennings:
Going back to why I was asking about the baskets. Sure. Yeah. For a second. I know we kinda we kinda like squirrel for a second there, but he's really wants the practice basket. Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. No. I don't I don't I don't want it for me. I want one. But what I was thinking is, what if we were able to utilize that space on the other side of the river and do a putting course? Sure. Like a nine basket,
[00:48:24] Ben Marolf:
nothing longer than 80 feet. The reason that those baskets got pulled is because the folks who are abutting the land were complaining about disc golfers being there. And there was probably also one too many fires that occurred because of things that disc golfers may do. And those impacts and those Fire issues led to the county saying, okay. We understand the things that are happening over here is too close to these private landowners home for us to feel like we can take on this is just my my guess. Take on the risk of having something start on our property that we can't control that spreads to theirs. The irony of that is that in return, a lot of those public land owners have completely impeded onto the egress that is public land and have started setting up shop effectively on that property. No one's here anymore. We're going to put our our retaining wall just a little bit further along here and just a little bit further along here because no one's checking it. No one's looking over here anymore. No one's doing anything about it because the disc golfers aren't over there throwing Frisbees anymore. So the county's losing out a little bit, I think, on their physical space, and people are legitimately actually stealing property from them by using it Of course. But also liability.
[00:49:40] Scott Belchak:
They also said they'd get their guns out.
[00:49:42] Ben Marolf:
The private property owners? If disc golf comes back here, we're getting our guns out. Sure. So we're gonna have an Oregon situation perhaps happen back there. But it's you know, I think a pitching pot over there would be sweet. I think a better lens for us to now look though is because because our relationship with the county is where it's at and because it is better. Instead of using that space looking beyond across the across the street. Yes. And I would like to speak with you about that. I think we should go over there for the major.
[00:50:08] Scott Belchak:
And use it for some holes? Yeah. Use it for some temples. After you play seven, you get up and you walk across the road right there. Sure. And then go play some New par four. And then come back and then play hole eight. We'll consider it. Yeah. It's all part of part of the big Cottonwood
[00:50:23] Ben Marolf:
Creek Regional Park. It's a regional park that stretches Creek Side is just one section of it, and there's a whole another area over there that has an equestrian lease holding. It has trails. It has probably I think tennis courts over there
[00:50:36] Scott Belchak:
behind the Lions Club. This is an another reason why disc golf has a hard time growing because disc golfers don't pay attention to anything else than their space that they're on currently. You know? It's true. It's like, we have our spaces that we go.
[00:50:47] Ben Marolf:
And until you step out out and look up and look around and say, like, well, what about over here? Yeah. Looking to the beyond. I mean, I would love to see in five years, you know, if the let's say USWDC smokes it in the county, city, state notices what we're doing. I wanna see a disc golf course in Sugar House Park. That sort of thing. I don't know why not. You know? Yeah. It's a Dell. Give us Temple Dell. Sure. Sugar House. Temple Dell. Every resort we have should and can support disc golf. There are so many spaces in which adding a disc golf course, including across the street from Creekside, would not negatively impact what's currently happening there enough that it would be a net negative. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you could you can add disc golf to so many different places as a multi use sport and especially with an educated community, which I think we have at this point, to increase our footprint
[00:51:39] Nick Jennings:
in ways that are creative and unique. So cross river, I don't think it'll ever happen because the land owners there are a stick in the mud, and there's a lot of money in those neighborhoods, and money talks. And same with that school. And it is what it is, but there's other places to explore. The limited amount of land in the valley. Yeah. What they're holding on to. What are the chances that we can get some sort of fence or barrier between the school Build a fence. Build a fence. And preach. I I know. I was I was actually the other day. People out. Around, like, 02:30, three o'clock. Yeah. And I had to wait for, like, thirty minutes on the tee pad a whole five. Yes. Because there was just a stream of kids Yes. Going and luckily, I was aware enough to not throw right at this. Well, I think if you
[00:52:23] Scott Belchak:
are not aware and you throw and you hit a kid, that may be a good way of getting a fence built. Yeah. So start aiming for the children. The
[00:52:31] Ben Marolf:
50 points per kid. The county the county wants the county this is and this is a a lesson in in money No injuries. Talking tears.
[00:52:40] Sean Kelley:
Just just hit him with potty tears. Yes. Sitting in the inside of the woods crying, screaming for his mother. Everybody needs to go out of the shop.
[00:52:45] Nick Jennings:
Screaming for his mother. Everybody's not coming out of the shop. Everybody needs to go to the shop and get a DX leopard.
[00:52:52] Ben Marolf:
The the interesting thing about the the the fence, the wall, we'll call it, is that the county would is not opposed to it. The disc golfers are certainly not opposed to it. School is opposed to it. And the way I look at it is similar to how I used to look at giant cruise ships in Southeast Alaska. I didn't think you're gonna go there. Wow. I was on a small Let's get caught up by the Eagles card. You know, 60 person boat that was built for seeing Southeast Alaska in the most perfect, beautiful, unique way. And we would see these giant floating cities flow by us with people on with thousands of people on them and think that is not the best way to see Southeast Alaska. I had the benefit of working for this, like, very kind of bougie company where the people who we had on board were paying $20,000 a week to be there. And so we were serving that experience.
And the people on those gigantic cruise ships were paying $300 to be there, and that's a difference. And so it was more accessible to them than it was to the average jail. And so the way to justify, in my mind, the existence of those things was that someday, maybe the next John Muir is on that boat. Somebody who's gonna do really cool things is being inspired by what they're seeing in Southeast Alaska because they got here cheap. In in some way, shape, or form, Alaska's having an impact on their life. That's how I look at the school. And what I've seen at that school that I think is really cool and that I think makes up for the fact that I have to sometimes wait on a weekday for the kids to pass through. And are they hitting each other with discs? Because that's what we need. We do. We need more kids hitting other kids with discs.
But but that's the thing is you see, it's like, you know, at the end of the day, if we want our sport to be seen, legitimized, respected, it is it needs to continue to grow, and it needs to continue to have more advocates. And maybe Scott Belchak is currently attending Wasatch Charter School. And in fifteen years, when he gets out of high school, all he's gonna wanna do because he's been inspired by the fact that he has this really cool disc golf course next to him and got really into the sport because it's right there on his little walk to the parking lot that the private citizens send their kids to that charter school use even though it's for public benefit, but that's beyond the point, are inspired by disc golf and and have access to disc golf. And I see their gym teacher using the disc golf course regularly Oh, nice. To play disc golf. Yeah. But he doesn't start on hole one. Disc golf. Go start on hole one. Nice. To play disc golf. Yeah. But he doesn't start on hole one. Disc golf. Go start on hole one. Don't hop in line. All I'm picturing when you say a little Scott Belchak is that instead of a a 26 foot triple mando, they're gonna do a 50
[00:55:40] Scott Belchak:
Absolutely. That's their dream. Yeah. We're gonna beat Scott at his No question.
[00:55:43] Dustin Hanson:
So I think he can build the biggest Mando on the planet? No.
[00:55:47] Ben Marolf:
I think that's it. Prove him wrong. No good answer to it's Multi Use park. The kids walk through it. They're never not going to until they come up with a parking solution at that school, which they never will because they have access to the parking lot even though they shouldn't. And so There's a lot of things wrong with it. Well, I don't It's how it is.
[00:56:03] Scott Belchak:
Because you you can't build on that hill anyway. Well, obviously, you can do whatever you want to with it. Like, you can put stairs on it, which they told us that we couldn't do whatever we want to with that thing. It's just a freaking dirt pile. Like, come on. Like, that's the biggest bull. Like, they oh, we can't touch this hill because we can't do any improvement on it. It's Army Corps of Engineers' bull. It's a big old freaking pile of dirt. It is a big pile of dirt. So dumb. And then you look at what that school's doing. They've got, like, their whole nook carved out of it. They moved a bunch of that earth, and they built a outdoor classroom on it. I mean, Like, what are they
[00:56:40] Sean Kelley:
doing? It's like just build a big retaining wall. They barely even let us put a t pad out there. Enlarge their parking lot so that now the parents can pick the kids up in their parking lot. Money talks. Real quick story about
[00:56:51] Nick Jennings:
the kids coming through that. Kinda early when I was starting to play discoloration, I guess it was about a year ago now. I went to Creekside to play kind of an afternoon round, and I'm walking to the tee pad a whole two, as like seven 10 year olds are walking from the other side, from, like, the Kraken side to the tee pad hole two. And so I I get there and I said, hey, do you guys care if I if I, you know, go ahead and throw and and kind of play through? And I hit an ace in in their face. Ace in their face. And it was my second ace ever, and it was my first pure ace. Did you get any high fives? No. But they went nuts. That's awesome. That's good. And then six holes later, I heard that they saw me from, like, across the the way, and I heard them talking about it still. Famous. That that may be a better likeness.
[00:57:45] Ben Marolf:
We're probably talking about it right now. But, Ben, thank you so much for for coming on tonight. Any final words for us before we close? I guess the only thing that I would have to say is thanks for having me on, and thanks to Scott and Sean and Nick and Dustin for your work in our community and helping to continue to grow the sport because there are a lot of people in Salt Lake City and in Utah who really care a lot about the sport of disc golf. There are not a lot of people who are doing the work. And if you are one of those people who is listening who cares a lot about disc golf but has not done any of the work, join us, volunteer, show up, and and help advocate for your for your sport in a bigger way because this is what we need here is more people who are willing to do the tremendous amount of work that this takes.
We would love more help growing everything that's happening. Right now, there's a very small faction of people doing a very large amount of things. There are more of us out there that could be doing more for what we are doing here. I am. Get your ass out there. Yeah. You know? Do stuff. And volunteer. There's a lot of opportunities right now. If you love this game, if you are appreciative of the new courses that are going in, if you are appreciative of Creekside being redesigned, if you are appreciative of anything happening in disc golf that has been an improvement in the state of Utah, give back in some way. You know, whether that's that's talking to your it's as easy as showing up to a county meeting and advocating for disc golf. But it is hard for me personally sometimes to go to things like the county meetings about this $3,000,000 project that Scott visioned out and that would be sweet as an incredibly awesome addition to to the county and seen the same three people who I saw at the same meetings three months ago yelling the same things to the same people.
Because all the county now thinks and all the city now thinks is is is there's just three fanatics who are really excited about disc golf. Our community is much bigger than that. We need more people to be involved, to speak up, to say things, but also to do it in the right way. And so, you know, follow the example and the advice of those who are doing it currently. Ask if you're scared to volunteer to get involved. There's a lot of people who are happy to show you the way. So I think that's it. We've got great community. Get involved. Do things. Disc golf needs you. Playing disc golf's fun. Helping grow disc golf's funner.
[01:00:07] Nick Jennings:
Well, that is gonna do it for us here on this episode of the Elevate Utah Disc Golf Podcast. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you out there.
Introduction and Guest Introduction
Ben Maroff's Disc Golf Journey
Challenges of Opening a Disc Golf Shop in Utah
Liquor Licensing and Zoning Issues
Franchising Another Round
Creekside Disc Golf Course Overview
Creekside Course Redesign and Improvements
Community Engagement and County Relations
Future Plans and Course Maintenance
Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Expanding Disc Golf in Utah
Call to Action for Community Involvement
