EPISODE: 0.2.5
BLOCK: 686852
PRICE: 2965 sats per dollar
TOPICS: the reality of ransomware
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So with all that being said, I'd like to invite now someone I've spent some time with to share a message.
[00:00:13] Unknown:
My name is Rajiv Bekele, and I'm president of El Salvador. Great ideas are beautiful and have great power. But like most beautiful things, they can also be more fragile than we think. When I was a kid, we thought about the future and we were delighted by its possibilities. We couldn't wait for it to happen and be part of its creation. But now ask almost anyone what they think about the future, and they will say something along the lines of nuclear war, climate catastrophe, hunger, pestilence, the death of life. We didn't took care of the beautiful idea that we create our own future, that we, as humanity, can do almost anything that we imagine, our ingenuity, what separates us from other species.
In El Salvador, we are trying to rescue this idea and start the design of a country for the future using the best ingredients that makes us who we are while using sensibility to find the best examples of ideas from history and around the world. I believe Bitcoin could be one of these ideas. That is why next week, I will send to congress a bill that will make Bitcoin a legal tender in El Salvador. In the short term, this will generate jobs and help provide financial inclusion to thousands outside the formal economy. And in the medium long term, we hope it is a long decision that can help the people and his family
[00:01:59] Unknown:
He got me a gift. He got me a gift, a soccer jersey. It's pretty sick. I wanna read, my favorite part from the proposed bill. Central banks are increasingly taking actions that may cause harm to the economic stability of El Salvador. That in order to mitigate the negative impact from central banks, it becomes necessary to authorize the circulation of a digital currency with a supply that cannot be controlled by any central bank, and is only altered in accord with the objective and calculative criteria.
[00:03:23] Unknown:
Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your boy, Matt Odell, here for another Citadel dispatch. That intro was our fucking boy, an absolute legend, Jack Mahler's, this weekend with the president of El Salvador, announcing that El Salvador will be the 1st country to be making Bitcoin legal tender. This is Citadel dispatch number 25. It's actually been 6 months straight of Bitcoin Tuesdays that we've all shared together, which is really fucking impressive. So cheers to all the ride or die who have been here in the live chat for the whole thing. Live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open source software.
I'm grateful to be joined here by our boy, Evan Kaludes, for his 7th diss Citadel dispatch. What's up, Evan?
[00:04:16] Unknown:
What is up, Matt, and what is up, freaks? It's fucking up. It's been 7 episodes. Man, just shouts to you for doing such a good job and having such great guests on facilitating facilitating such great dialogue. Just happy to be a part of it, man.
[00:04:32] Unknown:
Yeah, dude. Thank you. I mean, you you joined us for the first episode, and here you are for, the 25th, so that's, pretty fucking badass. I mean, I just spent the I thought I had enough of you already. I just spent the last week with you in Miami,
[00:04:46] Unknown:
and and then here we are. We could've missed a Bitcoin Tuesday freak, so, we made it happen. We're keeping the streak going like rock star on GitHub. You know, you gotta keep those, those green squares going.
[00:04:57] Unknown:
So, I mean, the main topic of, today's discussion is going to be, all this ransomware bullshit that's going on. But before we get there, I mean, obviously, I started it off with this El Salvador news. I think it's a pretty big deal. What's your take here, Evan?
[00:05:15] Unknown:
Well, I think we're entering into a new era of Bitcoin where we're seeing the game theory about to play out amongst the nation states. And, you know, all the salty people may make, you know, all these offhand remarks about, I don't know, you know, El Salvador and how much money they have down there, like, what they produce. Like, this is this is just the beginning of what's gonna be get become, like, a crazy chain reaction. And, you know, it's it's gonna start with countries in Latin America. From there, we could see countries in Africa and then Europe and Asia, all going down this path.
This is this is unprecedented, and this is really where the fun begins.
[00:06:07] Unknown:
Yeah. I think, people are kinda underestimating, you know, what happens next here. I mean, the the FOMO can just it kinda just works into itself. And, first, we had this kind of corporate FOMO start, and now we have this nation state FOMO, and it it's it's kind of beautiful watching it happen in Latin America first. I mean, there's so many countries down there that were once powerhouses that have just completely been destroyed and gutted, and their people completely fucked, partially because of US hegemony, but also, you know, for internal political reasons. So to see them have access to this money that should be able to uplift the people and give them more sovereignty, is really powerful, and I'm I'm just excited. I'm excited to kinda see this all unfold. I mean, we've we've theorized for a while here that, it was gonna start with challenger countries. It was gonna start with smaller economies. Like, obviously, it's not gonna start with the big dogs. They have a lot more to lose and a lot less to gain.
So watching it happen in our backdoor with you know, I've traveled around South America a lot, Central America a lot, and and I love the culture. The culture is fantastic. So to see this all unfold is is kinda beautiful. And it's amazing how quick, it went from, you know, just El Salvador to, like, all these different politicians in all these different countries. I mean, in a lot of you know, I don't think there's been any other presidents that have stepped forward yet, but, like, ran you know, bunch of different legislatures, ledge legislators, and other things like that have started to step up, and they want to,
[00:07:43] Unknown:
you know, they wanna get on the train. So, it's it's it's kind of cool how quick it can unfold here. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, it always was gonna be out of necessity. The the countries who needed it the most and who had the the least to lose. And if you think about it, El Salvador has, like, nothing to lose here. They're they're not in They've not been in charge of their own destiny for a long time. You know, they've been a dollarized country. Like, they use the US dollars. It's not like they have another currency that they had control of that they could, you know, inflate to help their own spending. Right? They're they're just at the mercy of the US empire and our spending and and what we do.
And, you know, when those stimmy checks get distributed, you know, the El Salvadorians, they're they're not getting one. So Yeah. They don't send that to them. No. No. They do not. So I I think if anything, this is a sign of El Salvador, taking control of their own destiny again.
[00:08:44] Unknown:
I mean, it's it's empowered. I mean, sorry to cut you off. I didn't mean to do that. I apologize. I mean, it's more than just I mean, they're dollarized, so it's it's very obvious with them. Right? But just in general, because we're the reserve currency, when we inflate our supply, we're really taxing the rest of the world, more than we're taxing ourselves. I mean, obviously, we're also taxing individual citizens in terms of inflation, but inflation first hits the non reserve currencies that are using us as a reserve even if they're not dollarized. It seems like Marty's owl is just you know, we have him in the comments. It seems like he's just got really it seems like he wasn't humble, and he's just upset with me about my 200 k by conference day, And now he's just he's just going at me. Ever since last week, he's just been going at me. So he wants he wants you to lead the show here, Evan.
[00:09:36] Unknown:
Marty, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry this happened to you. But, you know, just just don't overextend yourself on Matt's bullishness. That's there's a lesson here. You know what I mean? I personally am stoked at these low prices. Like, there's so many bullish events going on right now as the prices suppress with all this FUD that we've been seeing between Yuan and China and the ransomware and the ESG. It's like, this is Sats stackers paradise, freaks. Like, this is the time to extend some capital.
[00:10:10] Unknown:
I like that term, stacker's paradise. Stacker's paradise. Yes. I just want you to know, Marty's owl. Like, unless you change your name to Evans owl, you're officially a LARPer and a Virtue signaler. So you you have to actually go the you got to go the full 9 yards.
[00:10:25] Unknown:
Okay. I don't think I'm ready for meme accounts.
[00:10:30] Unknown:
I got I got sidetracked. Oh oh, the other thing is so I've changed the display to mempool.space if you're watching the video feed. This is not because we dumped even though I'm sure I'm gonna get the accusations. It's because, I think 2 episodes, 6102, who's always been a major influence on the show and a good friend was just going at me about having the price as the ticker. So I'm trying to build, like, an actual dispatch specific dashboard, but until then, I think this is what we'll go with. It seems it seems clean enough to me. It's a site I use every day. What do you think, Evan? Do you think this is a good a good choice for for episode 25? I feel like episode 25 is, like, a nice influential number too. You know? It's a significant number.
[00:11:22] Unknown:
Well, I am a huge mempools.space fanboy. So it was really great to meet Simon and Wiz this past week. You know, it's it's a great project, so I love seeing this up. However, I I do wish we could have a way to be the sweet spot. So we'll see what we can whip up for future episodes. That'd be the sweet spot. So we'll see what we could whip up for future episodes. Yeah. But for now, you know, this this will have to do. I think we're at about what, my my block clock is telling me we're at 2,971 sats per US dollar. Kraken is telling me the US dollar price is about 33,693.
I I think I think this thing is, a bit undervalued now, and I think fear is really high. If you go talk to your normie friends who are just trading, getting to shit coins, whatever, they are terrified. They do not wanna be holding the bag on a leg down. So they're they're because if they're sold already or they're thinking about offloading the bags, I think this is a great time to buy. And, you know, I I don't think a 6 figure BTC is out of the cards right now
[00:12:40] Unknown:
Yeah. For this year. Not out of the fucking cards. Of course not.
[00:12:44] Unknown:
But probably it's much higher than that. Yeah.
[00:12:47] Unknown:
It's fucking crazy. It's crazy how quick people just switch. Like, people are so fucking embarrassed on Twitter right now. They're just so and it's just, like, a couple weeks. All it takes is, like, a couple weeks of down days, and then now everyone's
[00:13:09] Unknown:
It's it's it's nonsensical. Like, the first of all, the fundamentals haven't changed at all. Right? Bitcoin's still cranking out blocks. Right? You know, we're we're about to activate Taproot. That's gonna be huge. And then all this Latin America bullishness, like, how how did this not change people's tunes? Like, it it's really crazy to me.
[00:13:32] Unknown:
Over So Yeah. It's fine by me. If you're a Fiat miner if you're a Fiat miner, you're just stacking yeah. If you're just stacking every week, you're just staying humble and stacking, You know, this this could turn into this could easily turn into, like, last March where it's, like, a generational
[00:13:49] Unknown:
opportunity to buy Bitcoin where everybody's gonna look back, and they're gonna be like, what the fuck, man? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's gonna be like, oh, you got lucky. Everyone else was getting shaken out, and you were buying at 28, 29 to 35 k or whatever. I think this is definitely sweet rank. And, I mean, it wasn't as it wasn't as violent down in 2017, but we still had a drawdown of, like, 35% or so. Right? So Right. Things are still playing out. It's just a little more violent with all the focus on it from, you know, mostly state actors. So
[00:14:27] Unknown:
Well, we we almost had I mean, if I if I remember back I'm not gonna pull up the chart, but if if I remember back in 2017, there was, like, many, like, 30 plus percent drawdowns. This time around, we didn't, like, get any 30% plus draw downs, and then we just got this huge big one, which kinda reminds me more of 2013, but also in my mind, you know, it's like maybe we just got a little bit ahead of ourselves. You know, Tesla bought in, and they kind of, like, jumped the gun there, and it it created all this additional buy pressure. And then, you know, maybe, like, personalities, like like that Odell guy, or, like, saying 200 k by conference day and stuff, and people just got a little bit ahead of themselves.
Marty's out came back as Evan's out. Oh, I see. And and so, like, we got what we deserved. Right? We got hit back, we got kicked in the balls, and it needed to clean out all the leverage and set up the stack base. Right? Set up the stackers base. The stackers set the floor in my mind, and then the traders are the ones who are are doing the liquidity in in between. Right? But but if people are just constantly stacking, we just have millions of people just stacking every time they get paid. The price is just that floor is just, like, slowly rising. Right? Yeah.
[00:15:40] Unknown:
It's it's simple as that. You know? The people with conviction, the staff stackers, they set the floor. And, you know, there's there's, there's the other side of it, the people who are liquidating. You know, the though that group of people has to be exhausted, but from what I'm hearing from my normie friends trading, I think we're getting there. I think we're really close to reaching this bottom. So fingers crossed, freaks. It's not financial advice, but, you know, if you're in this for the long haul, 4 years plus, this is an excellent time to buy.
[00:16:13] Unknown:
Before we go further here, I'm just gonna be a little bit shameless. I you know, the stream did, fuck up in the beginning. So if you retweeted or, you know, liked on on YouTube or on Twitch. I don't even know how it works on Twitch. There's a new stream now, so consider going and doing that. It is appreciated. It is the single biggest thing you could do for the show. Obviously, huge shout out to all everyone who's donated to the show. I wanna keep this ad free. I think that's, you know, it's fucking fantastic that it can just be supported by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners. So I appreciate all of you on that.
You wanna talk about Miami a little bit before we get into this ransomware thing?
[00:16:54] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. Before we go to the weeds, Yeah, man. It was an incredible week with some incredible people. You know, it was very overwhelming at times. I think the scale of it, there's definitely people that we didn't get around to even seeing or talking to. There was countless cases of freaks saying, oh, I didn't know this person was there. Oh, I can't believe I didn't see you. Like, it was just, like, a little too big, you know, but at the same time, it sort of makes sense for being the world's biggest ever Bitcoin conference. But, yeah, there were some incredible talks.
I particularly liked seeing Ron Paul, speak. You know, it's hard not to get bullish on Bitcoin after hearing doctor No talk so positively about it for so long. You know, there were also shenanigans too, you know, from, Dogecoiners interrupting Steve Lee's talk and stripping on stage. I feel so bad for Steve Lee. He's such a sweet guy.
[00:18:00] Unknown:
Brilliant guy. Okay. Ryan Calder was in the backstage and just fucking ran up and air hugged him off the stage.
[00:18:07] Unknown:
Shouts to Ryan. That's a true Bitcoiner right there. I I gotta I gotta go live with the guy, learn how to learn how to pick up shitcoiners like that with so swiftly. But, yeah, man, there was a lot of things, you know, to to be bullish on. I think it was it was great all in all despite being overwhelmed and being in this whirlwind. I, I I honestly think the best part of the conference was the free and open source dome you helped put together, Matt. So shout out to you for that. Yeah. It was me and Rudolf. Shout out to Rudolf for his help. Incredible Bitcoiner to meet. I love RaspiBlitz.
I was so happy to have spent time with him. Wish we could chat have chatted a little more. Well, that reminds me,
[00:18:50] Unknown:
neck next week, Rudolf is gonna be on dispatch, along with members of the teams of Noddle, Ronan Dojo, Start 9, and MyNode, to discuss the different node packages and their their licensing schemes, and what makes an open source license. So the only node, package that is not a part of it yet is Umbrel. They haven't responded to me. So, if you freaks are using Umbrel and you would like to see them be a part of the discussion along with all the other major node teams, consider chirping at them, reaching out to them, and asking them to be on what is hopefully one of your favorite shows.
[00:19:34] Unknown:
Umbra, please join. We love your product. We want you to get your word in. If you want me to come join and moderate, I will. But, it would be incomplete without y'all. But that being said, Matt, you know it's gonna be a complete bloodbath.
[00:19:48] Unknown:
Dude, this show is designed to be an organized bloodbath every week. That is literally, that that is literally the plan. Most of the people who are joining I mean, I have jokes on Twitter right now. The 3rd best Ben in Bitcoin, Ben the Carmen, said that you should be a permanent host. I mean, when I designed the show, I said to you from the beginning, like, the idea was that basically there's multiple recurring hosts. Right? You being one of them. And but some of these guys that are gonna be on the show next week are also, I would say would fall in that category, including Zelco, Kita Miner, and Open Arms who will be joining us.
So, hopefully, some of these other guys will also end up being more reoccurring as well. So, I I I I think I think look. We're gonna have the live chat as we always do. I'm sure they won't, pull any punches, and and it's a very important conversation to have. You know, people are are looking at these node projects. They all have different pros and cons, and and it's it's one of the first decisions that a ride or die freak is kinda making. Right? It's like they're making, like, what kind of wallets am I gonna use, and and what kind of a node am I gonna run. Right?
[00:20:59] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think there's a lot of options in the space, which is great. We got a lot of competition, but it could be a little overwhelming for the average user to sort of figure out what they want. But that being said, there there's a little something for everyone depending how technical you are or not, depending if you want more of a focus on coin joining or you want lightning or or, you know, the ability to install a whole bunch of apps. I think there's a solution for everyone, and, you know, this is a very important thing that people take control of their own destinies, run their own nodes, and become first class citizens in Bitcoin. So the more people we onboard to setups like this, the merrier, and, you know, the more we're all gonna build benefit.
[00:21:45] Unknown:
We have, rider die freak, who's on the show last week. Anthony, saying he wouldn't go with the node package that doesn't join the chat next week considering So go out and tell your favorite node packages that you feel the same way, and and let's hope that we get them all on the show. And then we have FTB asking why I said no market buy during our HR. I said, consider stacking, but instead instead of just telling people to do it, because I learned my lesson, and in hindsight, it actually, you know, they got a better price if they waited till now. But, I mean, look, guys. It's it's all it's all fun and games. I hope I, you know, I I kind of feel bad after the fact about the whole 200 k by conference day thing.
I got caught up in a little bit. A lot of it was like a meme, it was like meant to be a meme and then I just dug into it, you know, because everyone was doing like the sale or 100 k parties and like Scott Miner from Googonen was like 400 k, And I was just, you know, I wanted to jump into it, and it's it was just fun. It was like a troll on, like, the engagement accounts on Twitter, and I had just gone all caps. It was, like, early February. I looked back. It was, like, early February. So it was, like, at we were, like, we were, like, at 28:30, and, we went up to, like, 65 k, and then, you know, you guys know the rest.
I have Cantillon John or Cantillon Cantillon John saying I wasn't humble. That is correct. To be clear, I am rarely humble. That is why I repeat it so often that that not only should you guys stay humble, but I should stay humble. But to be absolutely clear, I have more Bitcoin than I had when I made the 200 k by conference day prediction. So so it might sound like cope, but, when I say humble, the first and foremost thing I mean is, you know, hold your own keys, care about your privacy, don't use leverage. That's, like, the humility that matters arguably the most in Bitcoin land. Because if you're not humble in that regard, then you lose all your Bitcoin on March 12th. If you're not humble in that regard, you lose all your Bitcoin on whenever the most recent dump happened. I I know that day, like, all the shit coins went down, like, 95% or something.
In Bitcoin land, that's the most important humility. And I actually get shit on the other side when people say, Matt, I don't wanna be humble. When when when Bitcoin's pumping, I wanna dunk on the shit corners. Yeah. That doesn't preclude that. You're allowed to dunk on the shit corners. Just don't take out leverage, you know, like, whatever. Exactly. And we have Evans owl in here saying, Matt is so humble, so I appreciate the hard critique, Evan. Thank Evans owl. Thank you for that.
[00:24:29] Unknown:
Yep. And believe me, freaks, we gave him so much flack this past week. He's he's heard it enough.
[00:24:35] Unknown:
Yeah. It's like every day in the Airbnb at, like, 2 in the morning, I was just
[00:24:39] Unknown:
just 200 k by conference days. I mean, that's why we got such a nice play to begin with. We're, like, rationalizing. It's, like, oh, yeah. It will be 200 k, so whatever.
[00:24:48] Unknown:
I went to Marty's hotel I went to Marty's hotel on Sunday, and I was, like, I was like, oh, dude. You believed it too. Didn't you? So nice.
[00:24:58] Unknown:
Oh, sweet.
[00:25:00] Unknown:
Well, anyway, guys, I guess that was a lesson for us all. You know, this is Bitcoin tends to teach you a lesson if you, if you get a little bit too cocky. So, okay, well, that was great. I mean, the best part about Miami was, Ross's interview, the first interview he's ever done, since he's been put in his cage. It was an extremely moving interview. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't have tears in my eyes. Everyone should go, listen to that. I do have it on, my Twitter page if you can't find it, but it's on Bitcoin Magazine's YouTube. Literally, every single Bitcoiner needs to go listen to that.
And then second of all, like, it was just so fantastic meeting so many freaks and fellow big corners and people I've interacted with only online. You really start to realize how powerful this movement is when you when you meet with so many like minded folks. And I really do. Like, it just furthers your conviction. You know? It just furthers your conviction that for better or worse, like, we're, you know, we're gonna win this thing, and and we're gonna make the world a better place. And, ultimately, that mission is bigger than any of us individuals. It's it's bigger than ourselves.
[00:26:14] Unknown:
Who's the favorite person you met this past week?
[00:26:26] Unknown:
I don't know. Big corners are just so fantastic that it's too hard to choose. Who's the favorite person you've met this week, Evan?
[00:26:32] Unknown:
Oh, man. There are a lot, man. Hanging With Wiz at the Airbnb was great. He's an incredible Bitcoiner. Of course. You know, helped kick off Zeus essentially, so it was amazing seeing him. Oh, man. Adam Curry, when he came to the Fosse dome, I got to talk to him, and he pulled out his phone, and he showed me he was using juice. Oh, that's cool. That that was like, oh, man. Okay. Now now I understand. This this is what I'm doing it for, you know. Like, people actually using your software feels amazing. Yeah, man. There was countless ones, and it's hard to even say it's a loaded question to even ask one like, Russ Okun, that was really cool talking to him at Beefsteak. Will Reeves at Beefsteak too. I feel so bad. I was giving him such a hard time about the FoldSpin rewards.
[00:27:25] Unknown:
Did you do it in person too? Sweetheart, that guy. What'd you say? Did you do it in person too?
[00:27:32] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. No. No. No. We're at the bar in the back at Beefsteak, which freaks. Okay. Beefsteak was probably the best event all week. Like, no. No. It was It's
[00:27:41] Unknown:
always the best event. Always the best event. Well, first of all, Russell Coon is a fucking legend. We are so lucky to have him on the athlete side. Like, he's gonna fucking orange pill so many fucking athletes. I I like He gets it that guy. Ask for a better ambassador. He's a fucking real one, man. He gets it that guy. Yeah. But beefsteak was fucking legendary. Every every beefsteak is is the is the best, you know, one of the best events of of wherever you are, whether that's Austin BitDevs or a a different conference, BitBlock Boom or something like that, but this was this one was absolutely insane. It was the largest one he's ever thrown.
You know, we had NFL players there. We had senator senator Loomis was
[00:28:25] Unknown:
eating steak with her hands at a Bitcoin beef steak, like Didn't even get to talk to her. This one was it was the biggest one by far is, like, so many people I didn't even get around to say hi to. It was crazy. But the venue was incredible too. Like, it was some converted strip club. It was out of control. There was like a like a cockpit from a plane that was up this, like, staircase that you could stick your head out of. We'll post some pictures of that too. And, yeah, the food was incredible as always.
[00:28:56] Unknown:
Yeah. Nothing We had our fave we had our fave one of our favorite core devs and, friend of the podcast, James O'Byrne DJing.
[00:29:03] Unknown:
Oh, James was killing it. We were dancing. We got so drunk. We were dancing on the dance floor. It was amazing.
[00:29:09] Unknown:
I we got kicked out of closing. I think they kicked us out at, like, 2 in the morning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We went to, like, 1:30,
[00:29:14] Unknown:
and then we load up. We're so drunk. We're going into the Uber. Right? I get into the back seat,
[00:29:20] Unknown:
and, I don't even realize who we're with. We're with we're with Gigi, and I start Oh, I fucking love Gigi, man. But I already I met him already, but it was and he's already a good friend, but it was so good to see him again.
[00:29:31] Unknown:
Fucking hell. Oh, man. He's great. Love him and his work. So, yeah. It was it was just so overwhelming. It was literally a whirlwind.
[00:29:40] Unknown:
Gigi slept on our couch that night. Right?
[00:29:42] Unknown:
Yeah. I brought him some water to try to revive him in the morning.
[00:29:46] Unknown:
But you know it's a good night when you wake up the next morning, Gigi's on your couch. Yeah. You scream. Yeah. No. That was just, that was it was yeah. There were so many good people that, like, you couldn't walk. You'd walk, like, 3 feet, and then you get stuck in another amazing conversation.
[00:30:03] Unknown:
Like, you literally literally Get pulled out of 1 convo, pulled into the next. Like, you were never really at least for me, I felt like I was never really in control of what I was gonna be doing there. But, it it worked out nicely, and we had a blast. So so, Freaks, next time there's a beef stick, you definitely need to sign up and come and say hi. It's it's
[00:30:25] Unknown:
it was legendary, Braj. Like, that that's the word I would use. It was legendary. You always always when you have a chance to go to a beef steak, just always go to the beef steak. Like, that's don't hesitate. It'll get sold out before you oh, me and everyone were talking about how we're such dicks when the tweet goes out, we don't retweet right away, and, like, it gets no engagement because everyone who sees the tweet's, like, oh, we need to get our tickets. Everyone needs to get their tickets. Gotta send it to your friends and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You you retweet it after you secure your ticket. Yeah. You secure the tickets, and then you retweet it. It's like on the plane where you put the mask on your face before you put it on the file next to you.
[00:31:01] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly.
[00:31:04] Unknown:
Okay. Well, that's that's great. Yeah. That was fucking awesome. So let's jump into this ransomware thing. It's on the news. Everyone's saying that, Bitcoin's broken. The FBI can can break into Bitcoin. FUD FUD everywhere, FUD abounds, feels like Bitcoin is being FUD attacked. That's not a great place to start with. Let's start with the fact that the Colonial Pipeline got ransomware attacked. What was it, like, 4 weeks ago or something like that? We got a picture of the Colonial Pipeline on if you're on the video feed freaks. We've talked about it a bunch on on both podcasts, both on dispatch and RHR, so I don't wanna go too much into the details of this particular attack. But, you know, the the basics is is that this popular ransomware as a service software, DarkSide, was used, to put to to lock up, I guess, like, the account management services of Colonial Pipeline, which runs up the East Coast and services most of the East Coast's supply needs, energy supply needs. And as a result, there was gas shortages, there was all this concern, major infrastructure of the United States.
The Biden administration, I think, declared, like, ransomware equivalent to terrorism. They said it was an act of war. They said all these things about, that they thought Russia was about behind it or, like, a Russian gang. Then there was, like, all this weirdness that happened immediately following it where, like, Darkseid said that they were closing up shop, and and they didn't vet their clients well enough. I mean, Darkseid is is this new idea, this ransomware as a service. So the idea is that the dev team behind Darkseid doesn't actually attack, they don't actually attack the different clients.
They give you access to the software, and if you use the software on a client, they just take a 15% fee off the top, and and I I I guess they take also a flat fee. They probably take a flat fee as payment to get this the software to begin with, and then they take, a percentage off the top of any ransomware you get paid. So so Darkseid came out and said, you know, we didn't mean to do any kind of geopolitical warfare. You we usually just attack soft targets like hospitals, and small businesses, and banks, and police stations, not large infrastructure projects, and that will vet our our clients better going forward, which is just kind of a hilarious statement from a hacking group in, Russia to be releasing.
And then, like, a day or 2 after that sorry for fixing my timelines a little bit off, but this is, you know, for the most part, should be correct. Couple days after that, they said all of their servers had been seized, and that they were just going out of business, which a lot of us believed, and I still kinda believe was like a boating accident, claim. Right? You know, we're going out of business, and then they just come out. It was, like, all of a sudden, like, in 2 months, there's a light sided malware or something. You know, it's just to, like, take some of the geopolitical pressure off of themselves.
And then yesterday, the Department of Justice announced that they seized 63.7 Bitcoin. That was the ransom was it was the affiliate portion of the ransom that was paid the opposite affiliate. The the client's portion of the ransom that was paid. So not that 15% that goes to the dark side devs. It was the 85% that goes to whoever, was the one who executed the ransom, and and they said they they I guess they didn't give us that many details, but they said they tracked it down, and then they secured the private key. And, yeah. So so where do you wanna start here, Evan?
[00:34:59] Unknown:
It's it's just a tragedy that ECDSA has broken now. You know? We we gotta abandon Bitcoin.
[00:35:06] Unknown:
Whatever spread. With sarcasm. We have a lot of new users. We have a lot of new users. I assume some of them were scared by the FUD that that Bitcoin addresses could be attacked. I would just say just straight up to the new users, no one can crack a a Bitcoin private key, and if they could, they're not going to test it out with fucking $2,000,000.
[00:35:34] Unknown:
There's a lot more Bitcoin that they could take than 63 Bitcoin. Yeah. That that's a that's an excellent point, Matt. There's much bigger fish to fry and, bigger bounties, to plunder than that. So, yeah. I mean, it's it's just hysteria. It's it's just, you know, the FBI also trying to do some PR and overstate their abilities. Like, it's a mix of all these different things. It's people not understanding what actually transpired. It's, you know, minimal facts being presented, by the DOJ and FBI and and people, you know, conflating things and trying to piece together things in their heads. But, realistically, this is just sounds like there's one piece of infrastructure upon maybe AWS's cloud or or someone hosting infrastructure in North, Northern California.
And, they were able to track this infrastructure back, and they were just holding the key hot on the server. It's sort of mind boggling. You know? If if anything, the takeaway is, like, these guys are not listening to RHR and, TFTC and, taking control of their own keys and and putting it into cold storage.
[00:36:59] Unknown:
So we know we know the dark side gang. They're not plebs. They're definitely not plebs. So so let's just pull it back for a second. So when it comes to seizing Bitcoin, you're not gonna be able to crack the private key. So the the MO is you first try and trace the Bitcoin. If it's a KYC payment, obviously, it's attached to your identity, so you're you're you're forced to try and and break a link there. With ransomware, it's actually, you know, kind of similar to a KYC type of situation, because in this situation, you know, Colonial Pipeline paid the ransom. They immediately told the FBI, you know, we paid this ransom to this address. Right? And I have up on the screen, I have Ergo's tracking of of the funds going through. So you you track the funds first.
Right? And once you track the funds, you try and figure out where the addresses are located. Right? So you wanna figure out the owner. If you can figure out the owner, then you can pressure the owner. Whether that's if you're a gang member or something, you're trying to, hold a gun to someone's head or break their kneecaps or or threaten their their their kids, their loved ones. But with the US government, you know, we have the largest prison system in the world. We could take your assets, you know, we could cruise missile your ass. There's a there's a bunch of things the US government can do to pressure an owner to try and get access. Mhmm. If if if they don't know the owner and they can't pressure the owner, they can try and attempt to to get the private keys because they're on an Internet connected device, whether that's a home computer or a server. Obviously, it's easier if it's a cloud server, especially if it's in something like AWS, like we think it was, where it's in like a corporate cloud, and you can just give Amazon a subpoena and take it. Right?
And then last but not least, if it's on an exchange or a custodial wallet, then the service provider actually holds a private key, the user doesn't. Right? So if the user doesn't hold the private key, then you go and you pressure the exchange or service, and you take it from them. That that's the general premise of how you would go about seizing Bitcoin. You're not actually breaking the protocol. You're attacking essentially the human element behind holding the private keys. And first, you know, it's a trace, and then it's an attack. Would you say that's, like, a a general premise that I that we're at that we're dealing with here?
[00:39:08] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, the the crux of the issue is these ransomware actors were trusting third party infrastructure for even holding their keys, which should be a big no no. I mean, they may have had access to the keys through the Bitcoin client on there, but they were hosting it on someone else's box who just went in there, shelled in for the FBI, ripped that key off, and took all the funds, at least from what my understanding is.
[00:39:42] Unknown:
So there's, so I have this ergo thing up. He also has a thread, and the thread makes an interesting point. So there's a consolidation that happened, which you can see which you can see on the the right side, this right this right or most circle cluster, and that's what creates the cluster. So they they broke a privacy best practice, and they took a bunch of inputs. The attackers the the hackers took a bunch of inputs, and they combined them all into a single, I think, a 69 Bitcoin, UTXO. And by doing that, they link common ownership. And what Ergo, speculates is that by linking that common ownership, the FBI or the chain analysis partners, were able to then figure out the the ultimate address the funds were in because the user was using an Electrum Lite client.
This is just the this is his speculation, was using an Electrum Lite client and was connected to, like, a chain analysis node. If, you know, we there's lot lot lot of times there's been speculation that these surveillance companies are running Electrum nodes. So if you're not using your own Electrum node, you're using someone else's Electrum node. Mhmm. And as a result, those addresses that are not linked on chain are still linked via that way, and they have an IP address linked to it. And when they had the IP address linked to it, they had the server linked to it. And when they had the server linked to it, they were able to then hit the server. Right? So so they they have the address information, then they combine it with something like Electrum, and they're able to, like, figure out where the server is and then hit the server.
So there's 2 elements at play here. Right? It's on chain privacy and network level privacy, which are the 2 things that we talk about a ton on this show. Mhmm. And then last but not least, there's so, I mean, like, this is coming back to actionable discussion. Right? Last but not least, like, the keys were hot. So you had the keys hot, you had poor on chain privacy, and you had poor network level privacy. And it seems like it was multisig. It was multisig, but both multisig keys were hot, so that didn't help.
[00:41:55] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, as bad as it gets. I mean, if you're well, I guess it could be worse. But if you're gonna be using multisig, like, what's the point of having it on hot devices to begin with? So
[00:42:06] Unknown:
But, I mean, you use multisig on hot devices when you use lightning, Evan.
[00:42:11] Unknown:
That's true. But, no one's should be accepting ransomware payments on lightning. Although, I expect someone might try one day. It's definitely not the way to go, at least today.
[00:42:24] Unknown:
Do you think I mean, I'm just gonna come out and say this. Oh, no. Before we do, I the number one thing about ransomware, and a lot of people are gonna try and pigeonhole Bitcoin on this, this is not Bitcoin's fault. These are insecure systems that are gonna be attacked anyway. If anything, ransom ransomware allows an incentive for for an attacker to publicize that they've attacked you by encrypting all your shit, rather than just selling your information to the highest bidder or selling that access to the higher highest bidder. Ultimately, the cats out of the bag, whether it's Bitcoin or something else, payments will be made on the Internet in the censorship resistant fashion, and what you need to do is improve your infrastructure. There should be a major play in America to realize it's a national security issue to to improve our infrastructure, and to make sure our companies are protected, and to make sure our public infrastructure is, protected.
And if it's not protected, these attacks are just gonna keep on happening until people protect them. And I'll I'll I'll tell you one thing. Every single time one of these providers gets attacked and, you know, ends up having to pay money and loses a ton of business, they will never they will never let it happen again. They will spend a ton of fucking money and time to make sure that their systems are secure going forward. They just need to touch the stove and and get hurt.
[00:43:41] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:43:43] Unknown:
And and one of yeah. One of the reasons I brought Evan on is by the way. Yeah. One of the reasons I brought Evan on is because you were like this was your industry. Right?
[00:43:52] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. I worked in cyber for 6 years, and, frankly, I see this as being a boom for cybersecurity. The fact that you're able to monetize a hack so easily is gonna light a fire under the entire industry's ass. And that's what we're seeing. We're we're gonna see people, you know, not only build tools to try to help counter these things and and have more, you know, rig rigorous backups mechanisms, but it's also just gonna incentivize people that just have better security in general to build up systems that will detect these things, to, you know, alert on them. You know, if if things are happening more more frequently and your expected costs of what you're gonna endure from cyber hacks is going up year after year because this thing becomes more rampant, then the whole cybersecurity industry is gonna about to experience a whole boom. I think this is gonna be ultimately great for the industry and ultimately great for people's security.
People need to be rigorous now just because of how easy it is and and how where the incentives are aligned. So, yeah, that that's one of the definitely one of the bigger points I wanted to bring home from this thing. Like, this is gonna be a boom for the cyber industry.
[00:45:07] Unknown:
And what's really interesting, it goes across, like, the whole the whole economy, because it goes from, like, you know, these larger ransomware payments of of, fucking full nation pipeline, and then there's small businesses all over the place. Like, these like, you don't hear about the majority of ransomware attacks. And I had a family friend who, like, their small accounting business got hit with a $3,000 ransom. Because these criminals are savvy, they realize, like, if they hit the smaller low hanging fruit, they need to pick an amount that they'll actually pay. Otherwise, they'll just start from scratch.
They they just won't pay the ransom. So it's just really interesting that it's like like, what? Like, cyber cyber professionals have been cybersecurity professionals have been talking about, you know, securing your systems for the last 30 years or whatever, and everyone just kinda gave it lip service. No one was really doing anything until until all of a sudden there's this direct incentive to to make it happen.
[00:46:04] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. You just gotta when you're doing your threat calculation, right, and you're thinking, like, okay. How much damage this could potentially do to my my, enterprise, and you multiply by the the likeliness of it happening. Well, if it's becoming more and more likely, like, everyone needs to take this into their their calculation. More and more people are gonna have to spend more money on cybersecurity protection. So it's definitely gonna be a boom for the industry. It's, it's a shame that this is what it took for things to start changing and people to start taking things more seriously.
But, you know, like many other instances in this industry, lessons are often learned the hard way. And and then
[00:46:52] Unknown:
yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Lessons lessons are heard the hard way. And, oh, that that's what that's what I was saying. So the the site, the other thing that it kind of is is funny is, like, these companies historically have paid bounties. A lot of these big companies have paid bounties out for security researchers. You find a bug, you know, we'll give you $10,000 or something. We have Vanilla in the chat trying to figure out how to rewind. I'm pretty sure you can rewind on, on YouTube. I I don't know if you can rewind live on Twitch. You definitely can't do it live via Twitter, but anyway, this is all gonna get posted to podcast feed. It's gonna get posted onto bitcoin tv.com. There's full archives. You can download it. You can torrent it. This is an open project, in the spirit of FOSS, and I want you guys to seed it. I want you to rip it up. I want you to share it. I want you to do whatever the hell you wanna do with it, and all those links are available at citadel dispatch.com, and that's where you can also contribute to the show.
But anyway, my point was that they had these bounties, and it just goes to show, you know, how shitty their bounties were. You know? Like, there's such low numbers. And in this case, basically, the the security researchers, like, the the kind way of of calling a ransomware gang is is they're basically distributed security researchers. They get to set the price of their bounty, and there's, like, a negotiation if it's paid or not.
[00:48:14] Unknown:
What an incredible price discovery tool.
[00:48:19] Unknown:
So with all that said, I mean, I'm just gonna jump right in here. Do you think this is a was a real ransomware attack, or do you think it was a false flag, perpetrated by the US government? Oh, wow. Really get it into it, Matt. Alright. So
[00:48:32] Unknown:
so okay. First of all, you know, we really don't know for sure. Right? So the motto is don't trust, verify, and, unfortunately, it's really hard to verify any claims from anyone right now. We know that there's some crazy things that have come out from journalists reporting on this. I think Kim Zetter said that, this attack didn't actually affect the distribution systems, systems, the the technical systems, but actually, came down to infecting the billing systems and that the company, the pipeline shut everything down because they weren't sure how they would bill their customers, which if so is is absolutely disgusting and goes to show you you can't trust corporations.
Is the government telling the rights? The the truth here in this story, we don't really know. I mean, the FBI has a long track record of creating its own terrorist plots than coming in as the good fit guy and stopping them. So could they be involved? I don't know. Shit. Who knows for sure? But what I do know is that the end of the day, this whole thing is actually great for Bitcoin because everything is good for Bitcoin. But, specifically, when you have the FBI coming out and saying, okay, guys, you should pay this these ransoms, like, just just pay them, like and using this as an example of, like, okay, this is how we can get your money back or whatever.
I think we're gonna see more companies just paying these things straight up. And I don't know what the FBI's angle is behind that is that they just don't want, you know, critical infrastructure to be down because the companies are trying to be cheap asses. That's that's probably what it comes down to. But, ultimately, I think, you know, boards across the country of these major corporations are seeing what happened. They're coming up with plans to how to mitigate this. I'm I'm sure many are thinking about having Bitcoin in the reserves just in case this does happen to get back on their feet as soon as possible.
It's it's just coming into the minds of all these people that may have not have been thinking about cryptocurrency at all before. And even if the connotation is bad in the light of hacking, you know, exposure no matter what your for no matter what the purpose is always a good thing for Bitcoin. So, I think this is in itself is bullish news.
[00:51:02] Unknown:
I think that's a very insightful answer. It's nice and nuanced, with 0 concrete, apply, which is a very professional answer. We have we have ride or die free, Randy McMillan, in the live chat, mentioning insurance scam. I mean, I don't think this was necessarily insurance scam, but as this ransomware attack start becoming more and more common and and these operators, the CEOs of the companies, and the treasuries of companies become more savvy, it could definitely be a vector. I mean, I know there is already ransomware insurance. So, I mean, that's up to the insurance companies to try and figure out how they're gonna deal with that kind of fraud. That's fraud like any other.
I would just say that insurance companies tend to fuck over their clients as much as possible, so I'm not gonna shed a tear there. I don't think this is an insurance scam. I think this company cap, you know, Colonial Pipeline just had a horrible infrastructure. They're probably running, like, Windows 95 or some shit. They wanted sympathy from the government and from their clients, because they couldn't accept payments, so they just shut down everything because they were fucking greedy, which, you know, runs logically. The US government was able to actually catch these guys probably partially because they they used, you know, executive privilege by saying that was a terrorist attack.
So they were able to, you know, get more power than than they could otherwise. And then they, obviously, in in proper DOJ fashion, they used it to attack Bitcoin afterwards,
[00:52:40] Unknown:
You know, taking advantage prices go to waste, as they say. Right. Yeah. Taking advantage of a real attack,
[00:52:47] Unknown:
makes complete sense. To me, if it was gonna be a false flag, they wouldn't have recovered the Bitcoin, and the pipeline would still be shut down. So, you know, if it was a false flag, it was a very weak false flag. And if you believe that our infrastructure is secure, I got a shitcoin to sell you.
[00:53:10] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, too many things are just connected out of convenience and laziness and cost cutting. You know? Like, these things don't have to be online at all, but it's just they become complacent. It's it's easy. It's it's, you know, cheaper than having more operators, more employees operate things manually. And, yes, it's sort of hard to unwind all that stuff.
[00:53:35] Unknown:
But, I mean, I expect there to be more ransomware attacks. I expect the majority of the funds not to get recovered. I expect future ransomware attackers to learn from the mistakes of these attackers, and and practice better privacy, best practices, and better OPSEC in general, right, in terms of how they store their keys. And I don't think this is stopping anytime soon. And what one other interesting aspect of here, by the way, is that this ransomware specifically, I have it up on the screen, not this is not the the one of the colonial attack. The thing is when when Darkseid attacks an organization, most of the time the organization just pays and just doesn't say anything to the public because it just looks bad. Mhmm. So they never admit it. But every once in a while, you get information out of it. So the majority, it's it's almost like a rape victim, like the majority of times it happens, you just don't even hear about it because they're ashamed about it.
But sometimes it happens, and we're able to glean certain knowledge from it. And Krebs on security has a whole post about Darkseid based on one of the large attacks that happened, and the the company actually coming out and publicly releasing all the information, because they wanted it to be out there. And and as you can see in the screen, they actually offer 20% discount if you pay with Monero. So for for better or worse, you know, the operators understand that one of their weak points is actually, trying to prevent the tracing of the Bitcoin.
[00:55:10] Unknown:
Yeah. That was definitely something interesting to observe. You know, they were willing to pay the premium to have some assurance that they could track this thing on chain. And, you know, from the side of things, I mean, we don't know exactly what led the servers to be discovered, but you one would think that, the on chain lack of privacy
[00:55:33] Unknown:
was helpful in the Well, so There's another theory I saw. So we're just all speculating at this point, Freaks, because the FBI is intentionally not telling us everything. There's a theory I saw, and we just recently it came out today, that the FBI for 2 years was running an encrypted phone network, called Anam, and they were they were they went into gangs, like, organized crimes distribution networks, and they were able to get the phones into the hands of distributors, and the distributors are giving them to mobsters. And every single, message was automatically getting cc'd to the FBI, and they had a backdoor key to it. So they saw every single message that went to this network for 2 years, and they literally operated the whole thing. It wasn't like they compelled the company or something. They were just literally operating an encrypted chat network. They sold it to organized criminals, and they got them on everything.
And so one theory is is, you know, in the in the affidavit or whatever, it says, you know, the Bitcoin was sent to this address, and and we had the private key to that address, so we seized it. They might have sent it to a custodial mixer, and that custodial mixer could have been operated by the FBI. I mean, the freaks on Twitter don't realize, like, the majority of private Bitcoin usage even today, I mean, it's hard to calculate for sure Mhmm. Isn't really the CoinJoin, tools, the non custodial CoinJoin tools. The majority has historically, and I believe still to this day, have been these custodial mixers, where you're just trusting the operator. You send them you send them Bitcoin, and they send you someone else's Bitcoin after a certain amount of time. So maybe, you know, these guys just sent it into a custodial mix, and the custodial mixers, like, thank you very much.
[00:57:14] Unknown:
Could definitely definitely be the case. I mean, I think the takeaway here is, you know, trusted third parties are security holes, of course. Right? And if you can't verify the software that's running on your device and all the software you're running, you know, it's it's prime territory for a honeypot. And, you know, that's what this FBI Global Sting was. And, you know, it's bore a lot of fruit for them. It was it was brilliant, you know, like, this is gonna be something they're gonna tell their bosses, you will they they're gonna think it's a grand slam, and it was. They We were able to arrest so many people, and we were able to run this thing for years without anyone knowing. But, you know, when you're just running software, you can't verify on servers run by someone else. What else do you expect? Well, to be clear here, they're
[00:58:05] Unknown:
it appears they're still operating, that they haven't caught the actual guys. This is first of all, the funds they took is of the affiliate, and it doesn't we're not even sure if they caught the affiliate either, if they actually caught the people. It seems like they just got the funds. So I I wouldn't say that they're, you know, done operating. I I expect this specific group to keep operating, but obviously still ransomware groups in general are gonna be operating. We have some person I by the way, dude, your your name some person on YouTube makes me sound like an asshole every time I call you out on the show because it looks like I'm just ignoring your name. But his real name on his his his name on YouTube is some person. He's asking why are custodial mixers still the thing, and it's twofold.
Actually, it's threefold. A lot of times they're cheaper than using the CoinJoin tools. Mhmm. They're they're way easier to use, with less gotchas, and well, number 23, it has a has a asterisk next to it with less gotchas, easier to use, and on chain privacy is better. But with 23, that's if you trust the provider. It's custodial privacy. Right? So if you trust the provider and the provider is keeping logs and isn't actually the FBI waiting for you to send in your money, they're way easier to use, and on chain, it's perfect. It's, like, not perfect privacy, but it completely breaks the link on chain. It's not visible on chain. Like, you send you send your Bitcoin and they send you some other Bitcoin. There's no link because the link is them sending you someone else's Bitcoin, and that happens off chain. Yeah. Absolutely.
So I'll just on the outside of the server, but the inside server has everything. Yeah. So he just apologized. You don't have to apologize. You you could keep your you could keep your name if you want. I appreciate you I appreciate you coming into live chat all the time. The he just apologized because his name is some person.
[00:59:54] Unknown:
Quit apologizing,
[00:59:56] Unknown:
freaks. Come on. So yep. And so what a lot of people do, or historically, what a lot of people did is if you don't and so you have custodial risk. So not only do are you trusting them with your privacy, obviously, you're trusting them with your money.
[01:00:10] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:00:13] Unknown:
They could steal your money. So what a lot of people do for on the trusting with them on the privacy side is they'll chain them together. Right? So they'll go from 1 custodial mixer to the next custodial mixer. So then all of a sudden, you're mostly just trusting them with, you're mostly just trusting them with actually stealing your funds. You're you're less so trusting them with the privacy side because if you go from mixer to mixer, they they don't have all the information. Right?
[01:00:43] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you're using, like, a traditional coin joint, like, you don't have as much opacity. So someone could guess, like, okay. Matt is 1 in these 5, 10, 100 people. Right? Whereas, unchained for this custodial mixer is just completely opaque. But, however, if that person is a honeypot or the FBI, they have the entire recipe for what input came in, who did we send it out to, etcetera. It's like they have the exact answer sheet. Whereas, you know, a noncustodial mix as long as the, the mixing
[01:01:20] Unknown:
is sound, the strategy for it, like, they don't know anything really. And if you if you didn't use Tor or VPN, they'll have your IP address too.
[01:01:28] Unknown:
Yep. Of course.
[01:01:30] Unknown:
It's kind of a similar risk to a VPN in general. So I got custodial privacy risk.
[01:01:35] Unknown:
Yeah. Of course. You know, you're trusting that VPN provider with all the sites you went to, what IP you're coming from.
[01:01:44] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. That that's a great analogy. Yeah. Like, you guys you freaks give me shit about 200 k by conference day, but what'll really kick me in the balls if it moleved.net turns into a honeypot. So I've been recommending it to you freaks for years now. But yeah. So I think that was a pretty good overall view of the custodial mixers we went into there. Oh, so I I have another question for you. Do you expect that either these ransomware providers switch to a Monero only model or change their premium structure? So right now, it seems like they're pricing it at 20%, 20% additional cost or risk if you if you use Bitcoin. Do you think that number goes up, or do you think they just switch over to Monero completely, or is this just a dumb question?
[01:02:33] Unknown:
I think that, you know, operationally, it would probably be better to just switch to Monero. But at the same time, it's a little harder to procure, especially if it's like a large corporation getting as much. They might not have exposure to the exchanges that have Monero. So I I see that premium sticking around, maybe increasing, but, you know, if anything, I think people are gonna change their security postures as to what they do with the private keys more than anything. I mean, that's what makes the most sense to me at least. Right? Like, why cut off the potential of it being paid if a corporation only wanted in BTC, especially if the FBI is going and saying, oh, hey. Look. We could sort of recover it in BTC. You know, like, why remove that and the premium? Right?
Why not just fix the way you're storing your keys? Like, it's ridiculous.
[01:03:29] Unknown:
Right. So so let's jump into that. That was my the next place I was going with this. Evan, is there not a use case for hot wallets?
[01:03:40] Unknown:
Is there not a use case for hot wallets? Of course, there's a use case for hot wallets. Right? What are you talking about, bro? Is is Zeus a cold wallet? No. Zeus hacked your node on the at home, that's a hot wallet. Lightning's a hot wallet right now. I mean, it always will be. Right? Because their state has to be maintained
[01:03:58] Unknown:
and passed around on the gossip network. Right? When I tweeted that out, I had 2 different types of people. I had the people that were saying that I was flooding Lightning, and I had the people that were saying, wait, Lightning's a hot wallet. So I was very happy that I tweeted it out. Well, you know, anytime you could educate someone, that's always good, but come on, Matt. You know that was bait, that tweet. You know, it was it was half bait, half, you know, trying to provoke a conversation here. Right? Because it it seems that there's been a large argument on a large contingent of Bitcoin Twitter that say the most unrealistic part of this whole exercise is that this group was using a a corporate server. It it appears they were using a corporate server. That's if the custodial mixer theory is incorrect, which I still think is a really cool theory.
And just like, like, they must have had such an awe fuck moment when they sent it in, but that's, that's besides the point that that there's this that there's this idea that because they were using a hot wallet, that's unrealistic. Like, a shit ton of people in this space use hot wallets. I mean, we had a guy we had every centralized exchange has a hot wallet. The whole Lightning Network's hot wallet. Any any any, freak who has used CoinJoin is is inherently using a hot wallet because it needs to coordinate with each other. If you're running Whirlpool or join market 247, you're using a hot wallet. The easiest way to do that with high performance on whether that's Lightning or CoinJoin or whatnot is to is to use a a well connected server. You know, we had the guy who lost a 1,000 coins on Electrum. He was using, obviously, he was using a hot wallet, and he clicked the phishing link. That's right. This this idea that people aren't using hot wallets, well, you know, should be educated that that people should try and use cold storage when possible, but it's a calculated risk. Right? The we have Anthony in the comments saying he's a hot wallet. Yeah. We we we saw him in Miami. He was very hot all the time. In Miami, you have to take 3 showers a day. You have you have no choice.
It's a calculated risk. Like, if these hackers are, you know, bringing in 6000 Bitcoin every 2 years, who the fuck cares if 60 Bitcoin gets seized because it's on a hot wallet?
[01:06:15] Unknown:
Yeah. That's true. But at the same time, you know, it's not really a high cost to get it into a cold setup. I I think it's like more of an education issue. Right? It's gotta be. You know, as great as the show is, for example, right, we only got, like, 200 people listening on average, at least on the restream over here. Right? So I think despite people, you know, having technical ability and being good at cyber and even being able to facilitate great things like this, you know, people's general knowledge about Bitcoin is lacking. The freaks are like the the point o 1%.
[01:06:51] Unknown:
Just to be clear, the the significant majority of the freaks coming through the podcast feeds. Over over 20,000 will listen to this episode most likely. But, yeah, I agree. It's it's it's it's, we're definitely still early days. We're absolutely early days. Oh, we're A lot of times, it's it's a convenience thing. Right? You just the the real question about using a server to me is not necessarily the hot wall, it is. And I guess if you're an organized crime, it's probably not that hard, but most of these servers require some kind of k y c to to use
[01:07:24] Unknown:
a corporate server.
[01:07:26] Unknown:
But I guess I guess if you're an organized crime, you can get fake identities, stolen identities relatively easily.
[01:07:33] Unknown:
Yep. Definitely.
[01:07:37] Unknown:
My point wasn't to flood lightning. My point is that everyone just no one talk no one talks about the fact that Lightning uses a hot wallet, that Lightning uses hot wallets. Like, very I mean, not nobody is hyperbolic. Few people talk about it. Yeah. Absolutely. And we're fine with that. And and if we're correct about Lightning, there's gonna be, like, 1,000,000,000 of dollars on hot wallets.
[01:08:03] Unknown:
Mhmm. Right?
[01:08:05] Unknown:
Definitely. And the routing nodes are gonna have 1,000,000 of dollars on each routing node.
[01:08:09] Unknown:
Yeah. They're gonna be TARIUS, man. Like it's they need to be secured. There needs to be measures to mitigate all this sort of risk. Keys need to be held on infrastructure that the the the routers own. You know, there's a lot of challenges in, doing this stuff, especially as the big corporations and enterprise operations, come into the game. Like, it's it's not just, like, setting up. It's not as easy as setting up a BTC pay and just plugging in an expo. You know what I mean? Like, this is something that you actively have to maintain. You gotta maintain the state and make sure you don't get hacked.
[01:08:50] Unknown:
Yeah. It's even it's even worse than just a regular hot wallet. Yeah. Absolutely. And
[01:08:57] Unknown:
absolutely. And the challenge that this requires is the reason why we don't see exchanges, have Lightning yet. It is the reason, like, you don't see Lightning integrated on Cash App yet. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of boxes to tick to make sure that your setup is secured generally, especially when you're serving, you know, potentially millions of customers. So it's not easy. Agreed. Agreed.
[01:09:26] Unknown:
I mean, do do you see Whirlpool, unspent capacity is ticking on up?
[01:09:34] Unknown:
Hell, yeah. You love to see it. Smelting sets.
[01:09:37] Unknown:
But that's, like, that's a perfect example. Right? Like, if you wanna sit in that remixing pool, you want it running 247, that's a calculated risk you're taking. I think it can be worth it, but it's a risk that you should calculate in your head
[01:09:51] Unknown:
and do accordingly. Right? Like, it shouldn't be all your funds at once. Absolutely. I mean, definitely, it's a different situation when you're doing something like Whirlpool or or setting up lightning at home, especially if you're just not exposed to the plane that web and it's just over tour services. You know, providing your machines, getting the updates, like, your chance your odds are really low of something catastrophic happened. But still, something could happen. You could have a loss that you can't recover from. And that's why anytime you use any of these services and use a hot wallet, you need to measure the amount that you're putting in appropriately. You do not want the vast majority of your funds, like your savings, your life savings on one of these hot wallets. Right? That's why I think the the analogy of checking account versus savings account is is so perfect. It's like you don't want everything in your checking account.
[01:10:43] Unknown:
So my lady wants some person to know that that you're her favorite NIM, and that you shouldn't change your NIM.
[01:10:50] Unknown:
It's good. You know what it reminds me of? It it reminds me of, like, on Ipods when you had, like, unknown artists or various artists, you know, everything would just get put there. You know, you can't search for that Google phrase. You know what I mean? Some person is not going to turn up any results or will it turn up like billions of results. So, yeah, some person great way to not get found.
[01:11:15] Unknown:
Oh, like, I'd someone I've one of the one of the OGs, he changed his legal name to Nobody. So and then I think there was, like, a someone's name was null, and it, like, broke a bunch of systems,
[01:11:28] Unknown:
which was pretty good. Have you ever seen that xkcd comic where the guy names his kid, drop tables? Anyway, preschool database. That's it. Little Tommy Tables.
[01:11:42] Unknown:
There we go. That's good upside, Freaks. Smelting sats, you mentioned, and some person called it out. I mean, the reason we say smelting sats is because when you smelt gold, you're really creating if you take 5 gold bars and you put it all together, and then you pour 5 new gold bars, you basically have 5 new UTXOs. I think it's a way better analogy than than mixing. I I I really don't think CoinJoin is mixing, and I don't think it's just semantics even though the semantics do help us because mixing is has a negative connotation, and custodial mixers have, there's some precedence of them being deemed illegal.
But it's a batch Bitcoin send transaction, and really, at the end of the day, if if you're using a proper implementation, you're getting 5 new UTXO's with no discernible history. So it's way more similar, it's way more similar to melting 5 gold coins together and creating 5 new gold coins than it is just shuffling the 5 coins between each other. Right?
[01:12:55] Unknown:
Absolutely. It's definitely better than just a shuffle mix where, you know, maybe you're taking private keys and moving them around to someone else. Like, now those 5 coins could have come from each of those 5 coins could have come from any one of the incoming 5 coins. So, yeah, it's definitely not a shuffle.
[01:13:16] Unknown:
So, Evan, did you did you intentionally remove your name? You think it's, like, good OPSEC for you?
[01:13:22] Unknown:
Did I remove my name from what? From the bottom of the of your thing. It doesn't show your name anymore. Just says my name. Man. Matt, there's definitely a difference between the guest software and the host software because I'm still seeing my name, man.
[01:13:36] Unknown:
Okay. Well, someone asked, who is the guest? So maybe I'm just listen. My OPSEC is already caked as far as who I am. Yeah, dude. Especially after this fucking week, We met so many Bitcoiners.
[01:13:48] Unknown:
Oh, man. Yeah. For sure. I I bet my phone is compromised, my computer. But it's all good, Matt, because we already operate under the assumption that all our devices are potent. So okay. Exactly. As you should. And that's, you know, probably what the ransomware guy should have done as well
[01:14:04] Unknown:
in hindsight. Yeah. So, I mean, we wanted to keep this on the the shorter end, because we're both, we're kinda both in Bitcoin detox. You know? It's just been just a marathon. So I expect this to be one of the shorter dispatches, but I hope it was high signal. But before we do, there was 2 topics that I really wanted to hit. We already we already hit the encrypted phone network, ANOM that they were running. I mean, it kind of feels like if they're running that, like, they could be running a shit they're probably running a ton of things. Right? Like, they must they're they gotta have their hands in some Bitcoin things. That's that that's that should be a wake up call for people. You have any thoughts there?
[01:14:59] Unknown:
Say that again? Sorry.
[01:15:01] Unknown:
They have this, you know we found out the FBI. They finally admitted that they were running this encrypted phone network, ANOM, right, where they were just intercepting every message that the the organized crime was sending was just going to them. Oh, you're saying you gotta have some Bitcoin operation going on. Yeah. I mean, look, I if yeah. I I don't know. I I feel like they could be running some wallets.
[01:15:28] Unknown:
I mean, definitely some custodial wallets, some software that connects to servers they own. You know what I mean? Like, software that doesn't let you hit or connect your own node. You know, custodial mixing services would be a clear one as they could piece together the entire history. Yeah. Freaks, I mean, you gotta be vigilant out there. You know, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. You know, decentralized services are definitely prime suspects to be honeypots. And, you know, any software that's closed source, right, that you can't verify, you can't build yourself, you can't connect your own nodes, someone else is seeing your transactions, these are all prime suspects to be operated by the FBO.
I'm not saying that they are for sure, but counter chances are there's gotta be a couple that the FBI are running for sure.
[01:16:20] Unknown:
Like, that that applies to, like, every iPhone app. Closed source things. Yeah. Absolutely. You know And because you're gonna have an open source iPhone app, you just can't verify you can't verify that it's the same code that's running.
[01:16:33] Unknown:
Absolutely. Who knows? Like, I I provide Juice open source. Right? And you could build it yourself and put it onto your own phone. But who's to say that Apple is not piecing it together behind the scenes and putting out a version that,
[01:16:46] Unknown:
can you build it yourself and run it on iPhone?
[01:16:49] Unknown:
Well, yeah, of course. I mean, when if I'm using it on the iPhone, I'm using a version I built. But, you know, I recommend the freaks. They go out and use Android and use the verified bills that either F droid builds or build it themselves or or use the binary I have and sign if but only if you trust me. Otherwise, just build it yourself. IOS, you know, it's sort of hard to get around that. You're sort of screwed one way or the other. I mean, unless you're going line by line,
[01:17:17] Unknown:
building building it yourself. I guess I guess it it does increase it improves the trust profile.
[01:17:21] Unknown:
It it improves the trust profile regardless. Do that either through going line by line, so it's tricky. Yeah.
[01:17:28] Unknown:
So the ultimately, you're trusting the maintainer to a degree, obviously.
[01:17:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Ultimately, you could have some It's
[01:17:36] Unknown:
better if you have a signed builder, you build it yourself, but but it is what it is. But these are, like, auto updatable apps that are, like, you can't you can't verify it all on iPhone, Like, they could easily probably just serve someone they don't that doesn't have to be the whole app either. Right? They could just serve you they could serve you a malicious update just a single person, if you're on iPhone or Android or even on Google Play. Right? If you have auto updates enabled. For sure.
[01:18:08] Unknown:
Yeah, man. I mean, end of the day, these platforms, they have a lot of, rooms for black back doors, you know, like, something like Imessage. Right? It's not like signal where, you know, you create a new key and everyone gets notified you changed it. Like, this is a system built to add new devices to it and share the keys. Like, Apple controls the whole thing. They could just add a device to the f that belongs to the FBI to your profile, have it coded so that it doesn't send you a notification that you added it, and, all of a sudden, they have a copy of all your messages just like the FBI, global ANOM
[01:18:46] Unknown:
sting. You know what I mean? I I would just point out to the freaks that, like, when you're talking about threat models, you know, the FBI, the NSA, Chinese special service, the Russian special service, like, these are the most sophisticated actors in the world. Okay? So I don't want you to get overwhelmed because you can't secure yourself from them. You know? 99% of the world can't secure themselves from them. Yeah. Absolutely. So you have to plan your threat model appropriately, and, and that's why that's why we like cold storage, because if you just don't have your keys online, you reduce the overwhelming majority of risk that they it had it has to be local. And if you use when we're talking about actionable discussion here, if you use, you know, cold storage multisig located in different geographies, different areas, then they've an attacker physically has to go to those locations, those multiple different locations to access it.
If you're using things on your keys like the timer feature on on Coldcard, where once you enter the PIN, you have to wait a week before you're able to access the key. Things like that can reduce your attack surface very, very easily without overcomplicating things. And because once you start overcomplicating things, you end up presumably shooting yourself in the fruit. Most Bitcoin is lost because of user error, because you get too complicated, because you start fucking things up. But the single biggest thing you can do is just never connect your keys to the Internet. Your keys are never on the Internet, then, you know, 9 times out of 10, the only way they're able to access them, the only way an attacker is able to access them is to come in and actually take your keys from from the device.
You know, they have to they have to come into the physical location to take them. We had Craig Raw on the show. I really wanna get him back on, and he said the single biggest thing for Multisig to him, because he's from South Africa, there's tons of crime down there. There's tons of burglaries. The single biggest thing is that someone can't come into his home with a gun and and and take his keys, because they're they're located in geographically distributed areas. Now, unfortunately, if if someone's a deranged criminal and they come in and they don't believe that you have multisig, they might do a lot of damage to you. So, really, where I wanna see this go is I wanna see the assumption be made that so many Bitcoiners are using geographically distributed multisig that attackers just assume they just assume before they come in that the majority of your funds are in that kind of setup, similar to, like, an ADT sign or some kind of alarm system sign that we see on the on people's lawns. Right?
[01:21:24] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. It would be funny if Rodolfo started producing some songs like that. You know what I mean?
[01:21:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Geographically distributed multisig lives here. But actually, right now, it'd be bad because just so few Bitcoiners that it will literally be a sign. It's like, I'm a Bitcoiner. But that's so that's a maybe that's a thought for after hyper Bitcoinization. And then last but not least, the one topic I wanted the last topic I wanted to get you with before you leave us, is did you see this new, trust minimized VPN that Apple released? I think they're calling it Private Relay.
[01:22:03] Unknown:
Yeah. So I saw the headline, but I did not dive into the specifics of it. It's intriguing to say the least, but just like any VPN, I worry about Apple having this network visibility into what all their Safari users are doing. So, I really need to be swayed to to trust it for anything serious. You know what I mean?
[01:22:28] Unknown:
Yeah. So, I mean, with Apple, a lot of times it just feels like they're virtue signaling. Mhmm. But also sometimes it feels like I mean, look, the threat model they have for their customers is, like, not to protect them from themselves, not to protect them from Apple, you know, themselves being from Apple's perspective or the US government, but to protect them from everyone else. The exception, of course, being that they, like, co own Chinese Icloud servers with the Chinese government, so China doesn't have to give them a warrant or anything to access it. They can just, they can just go in themselves. So they're like, oh, the the Chinese government hasn't given us, information requests. Yeah. Because the Chinese government just has straight access to it, so they didn't have to ask Apple for it.
So that's like, you know, one hand says one thing, the other hand is like scratching the CCP's back. But, in the case of this, I mean, obviously, it's not open source. There's no way for us to really trust Apple's claims, but the idea is basically, every connection, that goes out goes to 2 independent servers. So Apple, I guess, controls 1. I guess Apple controls both, but the second server doesn't know, what the first server is saying to itself. What what what the the first server is doing some kind of, obfuscation, so that the second server doesn't know.
Ideally, to me, it would seem like it should be run by 2 independent companies, so both companies would have to collude, and that's something we see with Unchained Capital with their multisig setup for their their their loan product. We're, like, you hold one key, they hold one key, and a authorized third party holds the 3rd key, so those 2 parties have to include against you to basically attack you, which also kinda like what we're talking about with the custodial mixers, chaining them together. Right? If you chain them together, then they have to collude.
[01:24:23] Unknown:
Yeah. Similar to, like, if we use VPNs
[01:24:26] Unknown:
chained together from different different countries, you'd get an effect like that. Right. So the so the Apple fanboy response to this is, is, this is amazing. I'm not an Apple fanboy, but this is what an Apple fanboy would say. This is amazing. Just more proof that Apple really cares about their customers' privacy, and it's the best for privacy. And then, like, the Cypherpunk or hardcore BitCorner look would be, you know, this is closed source. There's no way for us to verify their claims. Apple probably full of shit. Icloud isn't end to end encrypted, and most users think it's end to end encrypted, and they back up their whole phones to it, and Apple's malicious, and users should use Tor.
But there's a middle ground here, and that is that, you know, when you use a VPN like a mole vad or a bolae or one of the horrible ones, all the other horrible ones that exist Mhmm. You're completely trusting that provider. Right? And it'd be kinda cool if, this seems like I mean, if it's actually what's happening in the background because I there's no way for me to verify it. It seems like a strictly it's it's it's inferior to Tor from a privacy perspective, but it seems, strictly superior to a traditional hosted VPN, where you're just completely trusting them with all your all your traffic. I would it would be kinda cool to see some of the, you know, more reputable VPNs, like, kind of team up together to make it the default setup on on their for their customers, you know. Like, if if Molvad and Bolle, you know, they're both accept Bitcoin, they both have good reputations if they set it up. So the default is every time you do a connection, it goes through, you know, Mullvad first, and then it goes through Bolle, and you need to basically have them collude to, deanonymize you, that could be a massive trust improvement for people while still having the bandwidth improvements of using a VPN over something like Tor. Right? Like, the main benefit, of using a VPN over Tor is, like, you just get significantly better speeds.
[01:26:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. That's a great point. While that setup would be interesting to see, it would be also really hard to verify. And, you know, ultimately, end of the day, you're still trusting Apple. Right? Like, this is a company who's gone so far as to disable the encryption on on their Icloud backups to have a way, to access those messages for the FBI to access those messages in, you know, different domestic situations. So it's even with this intricate setup, it's we can't verify it. We can't know for sure. And if privacy on this level is important to you while still maintaining speed, you might wanna try to link together VPNs yourself manually across different countries, across different jurisdictions, and create your own threat profile for these VPN providers.
Because, ultimately, this sort of thing on paper sounds great, but at the end of the day, it can just be like window
[01:27:36] Unknown:
dressing, you know, like What about that? What about this? So I like, one of my favorite parts of dispatch is just brainstorming live on air. So what if, like, you got if if if if you made an app, you, Evan Kaludis, you made an open source app That's an idea. And then you reached out you reached out to 5 or 6 of of the largest VPN providers or the best VPN providers that you curate. You decide those are 6 best. Right? Mhmm. And and you tell them, look. I want you to accept Bitcoin payments. Maybe a couple of them already do. Right? So you obviously pick those. I want you to accept Bitcoin payments, and I need you to give me an open API that I can hook into. And then your app, randomly, every time you wanna use it, you pay it with lightning, and it picks 2 random ones, and, like, change change you through them automatically, something like that.
[01:28:33] Unknown:
That's intriguing. Would I even necessarily need to get those providers on board? I could just do it myself and be a proxy, but then you're trusting me. Right?
[01:28:43] Unknown:
Right. Right. But and then you're like, there's a custodial money relationship there. But if it's Lightning, you can just automatically just split it between where you go, and then you could take a cut as the as the software provider. Mhmm. So literally every every member of that group is, like basically has a profit incentive to have it, you know, work work well, and then no no individual provider knows who is who, you know, who they're peered with. Like, they're maybe you even do 3. You almost do like a you almost do like a Tor Onion, but the software is just automatically routing you through the different VPN providers while paying everyone.
[01:29:27] Unknown:
That is an intriguing idea. And, of course, we're gonna tie in lightning.
[01:29:34] Unknown:
That's it. Obviously, we gotta we gotta stay on topic here. Yeah. Or or half hour or whatever
[01:29:39] Unknown:
makes the most sense. But, yeah, I mean, as as far as things go on that front, yeah, there there's tons of room for innovation, and I think, it would definitely be an intriguing product on today's market. I mean, a lot of people say that users don't care about privacy. Right? But I don't think that's exactly the case as as shown by your audience and by even corporations by Apple trying to pander and and provide these privacy features. It's just that these guys shouldn't be the ones doing it given their track record.
[01:30:14] Unknown:
Yeah. I I would say, like, it is the coolest part about I don't trust Apple for shit, but the coolest part about them selling this privacy as a premium thing is that it is kind of creating it it is, first of all, showing that there's a market there for people who care about easy to use privacy, and it's almost it's almost signaling to the rest of the industry that there's a market there even if there's not as big of a market as people think there is, which kinda becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? So it'd be nice it'd be nice to see more and more companies kind of realizing that this is a value add. This is a way they can attract customers. Right?
[01:30:52] Unknown:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, as time goes on and there are more incidents relating to privacy, the demand is just gonna go up and up. So, I think the important thing is that people make products that make it easy and accessible. And, you know, while it's it's you know, I wouldn't trust them. It is cool to see Apple trying to build products or at least market them, in the field of privacy. So just wanna see.
[01:31:20] Unknown:
So, Evan, I think we're gonna wrap this up. Do you have any, things you wanna cover before we we do? Oh,
[01:31:26] Unknown:
man. I'm just beat from this week. I just wanna say shout outs to all the freaks listening today. Shouts to all the amazing Bitcoiners I got to hang out with and meet this past week. You know, I I don't think I've ever been more bullish. And it's crazy to see that everyone else that I'm talking to is is so incredibly bearish. I can't help but think that this is an incredible time to accumulate.
[01:31:52] Unknown:
100%. Cosign everything Evan said. Evan, thank you for coming on the show. I know we're both, extremely drained, so I do appreciate you helping me continue this streak. I appreciate all the freaks that are here. I appreciate all the freaks I met. I wanna remind the freaks that next week on Bitcoin Tuesday 1900 UTC, we're gonna have battle of the nodes. We're gonna have the teams from Noddle, Ronin, Grass by Blitz, Start9, and MyNode there. Umbrel has not confirmed yet. So if you want to see them in the show, please reach out to them and tell them as a customer you would love to see that.
To the rest of you, we'll see you at RHR on Thursday. I love you all. Like, stop being pussies. Bitcoin is doing great, and, we're gonna fucking win. We're gonna win, freaks. Let's go.
[01:32:44] Unknown:
Regulators. Regulators. We regulate any stealing of his property. We're damn good too. But you can't be any geek off the street.
[01:32:53] Unknown:
Gotta be handy with the steal, if you know what I mean, earn you key.
[01:32:59] Unknown:
Regular Mound up. It was a clear black night, a clear time. Wings, I would fly. Let me contemplate. I glance in the clunk, and I see my homie Nate. 16 in the and 1 in the I'm tweaking into a whole new era. G funk, step to this, I dare you. Funk on a whole new level. Chords, strings, we brings melody. G Funk, we're rhythm as light and light is rhythm. If you know like I know, then you like every day. And if your ass is a buzz, the 213 will wake you
[01:36:41] Unknown:
Love you, freaks. I'll see you Thursday for RHR, and next Tuesday for the battle of the nodes. Stay humble and stack sets.
Introduction and background of the speaker
Bitcoin as an idea for the future
Discussion about the podcast and its guests
Bitcoin price discussion and market sentiment
Highlights and experiences from the Miami Bitcoin conference
Overview of the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack
Discussion on the seizure of Bitcoin by the FBI
Bitcoin and payments on the Internet
Cybersecurity industry boom
Ransomware attacks and cybersecurity
Apple's encryption and access to messages
Brainstorming live on air
Creating a VPN app with Bitcoin payments
Automatically routing through VPN providers
Apple's privacy features and market demand
Wrap up and appreciation