Citadel Dispatch

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EPISODE: 0.2.4

BLOCK: 685840

PRICE: 2757 sats per dollar

TOPICS: miami special

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[00:00:00] Unknown:

Race day. Today,   the number 21 car,   the Bitcoin car,   takes on the Indy 500.   Today,   the Bitcoin car races for human freedom,   financial literacy,   financial inclusivity,   savings technology,   peer to peer censorship resistant money.   The hardest money mankind has ever come across.   When we die,   all that's left is what we've made.   And Bitcoin is arguably the most important thing humanity has ever made.   I don't give a fuck about the price.   Are we in a bear market, a bull market? Is it a dip? Do you know what's really going parabolic?   The amount of individuals around the world that are uniting and fighting for what Bitcoin stands for and what it means for the world.  

Saquon Barkley, NFL player, Diplo, a DJ, El Salvador, surfers, baristas in Australia,   all united by one singular mission that is Bitcoin that represents a world that they wanna live in, that they want their kids to live in, and that they want their kids to live in. The Indy 500 has never sold more merch in countries than this year.   More countries are tuning in than ever before   this year   because of Bitcoin.   We're raising Bitcoin awareness, and we're supporting the open source engineers that are developing our ability as individuals   to have financial independence.  

To all the exchanges,   to all the wallets, Coinbase, donate,   support,   even if it's a penny.   We have to support the open source engineers that are working on the most important open source project of all time.   To the community,   let's do what we do best. In an unprecedented time for humanity,   in an uneasy macro environment,   we're supporting   Bitcoin. That's hope.   An asset and monetary policy we can rely on, and we're gonna fight and stand for what we think pushes the world in the right direction.   And with that being said,   let's go win a fucking race.  



[00:02:48] Unknown:

You're too early. I know. Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. Oh, happy New Year. Welcome to a very special Citadel dispatch.   I'm your boy, Matt O'Dell.   This is Citadel dispatch   24   live from Miami.   We got the whole crew here. We have a our 1st live in person audience for city hall dispatch.   I'm fucking hyped.   Shout out to the ride or die   who are in this room with us today,   and also,   of course, to the ride or die that join us in the live chat every week.   You guys make the show what it is.   With all that said, I would love to introduce   this insane cast of BitHorners we have here today. This is by far   the the largest guest list for a single dispatch. So I look forward to seeing how much chaos happens here.  

I'm gonna start from this direction   and go   that way.   We have we have Anthony over here.   You wanna raise your hand when when I call on you? We have we have Ty.   We have Evan. Hey. We have Ben. Hey. We have McCormick, and we have Wiz.   What's up, guys? Thanks for joining us here.   Thanks.   You enjoying Miami?   Oh, welcome. Far. Yeah.   So   we got a beautiful view behind us.   The price is not 200 k.   We still we still have some time. We still have some time. It's still in play, obviously,  

[00:04:22] Unknown:

but it sort of feels like it. It sort of feels like we're at 200 k. You know? Does it?   Look. His jeans are ripped. Of course not.  

[00:04:32] Unknown:

It's proper.   So   I think the best place to start is, will   be activated by the end of this difficulty adjustment period? Does anyone have strong opinion here?  

[00:04:42] Unknown:

What's   like,  

[00:04:48] Unknown:

okay. Well, of course it is. Yeah. I mean, but you're gonna lose a bet. Right? Yeah. I'm a I'm I I'll probably lose 2,000,000 SADs to Evan if if it does it won't get activated. It gets locked in. Right? Yeah. Yeah. The activation happens in November, actually.   You know, barring it gets locked in in one of these 6 periods. So we're on period number 3. I, for sure, thought we're gonna get in,   the last period, but, you know,   some people were sort of dragging their feet, updating their notes and whatnot. But,   this 3rd period seems like a shoo in barring any shenanigans. I I think we're at something like 97.8%   of the blocks are showing up green right now.  

So, yeah, some real shenanigans will have to Stay on blipin'.   So I actually jumped ahead with Tabra. We could talk about it in a sec, but it's kinda boring.   What did we we we started we started this fucking show with our boy, Jack Mullers, fucking going off.   Going off at the fucking camera at the Indy 500,   right before the Bitcoin car race   in   the largest sporting event   on the United States calendar and the largest event since COVID.   And we had a Bitcoin car that was in 1st place for 32 fucking laps.  

[00:06:04] Unknown:

Was it the largest since COVID? Yeah. There was, like, 200,000 people there.  

[00:06:09] Unknown:

That's a lot of people. And,  

[00:06:11] Unknown:

I mean, I I was there in person. I thought it was fucking unreal. What did you guys think, you know, viewing it on viewing on TV?  

[00:06:19] Unknown:

Yeah. I was on a beach, so I was just watching out my phone, seeing the labs go by. It was it was amazing. You and Peter, you guys are both there. Right? How was that?  

[00:06:28] Unknown:

Yeah. Emotional, wasn't it? Like, the highs and lows. Just the heart just constantly racing. I mean, he was in the lead for 32 laps, but most of the race he was first or second. And when he was second, he was behind his teammates.  

[00:06:41] Unknown:

And a 100 laps here, we were all saying, fucking good deals. We were, like, hugging each other, like, fucking jumping up and down the suite,   fucking Jack's going off about freedom and, like, how we're gonna fucking win everything.   It was fucking fire. It was good. But we were all, like, wrecked off of it. It's a very low time preference sport.   Fucking 200 laps. You know?   Yeah. You gotta pace your excitement. Right? We got so excited. We did not pace our excitement. We gotta stop You literally your heart doesn't stop stop racing until the race stops.  

[00:07:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Not too. We're all jumping around.  

[00:07:18] Unknown:

Talk a little bit louder.   Lap 2.  

[00:07:22] Unknown:

We all got excited.   We were jumping around.   But it was mad that second lap. We're all outside, and he comes around. He's in the lead. Well, what the fuck? Before we even started the race, we're in the pit we're in the pit and fucking,  

[00:07:35] Unknown:

you know, the the Bitcoin car is is starts as a number 3 car. So they do this qualifying in the week before where they determine out of the 33 cars   where you start in position, and it's 3 rows of a of a it's 11 rows of 3.   And where you start obviously gives you a way bigger advantage because it's hard to overtake after the race starts.   And the the number 2 car was the number 1 and number 2 car were both banks. So, like, you couldn't write you couldn't write the story fucking better.   And specifically, the PNC car was the number 2 position,   and they were right next to us in the pit. And Russ just walks up to them and is just standing there, like, 6 feet away from them just heckling them, just going at them, like, have you you should switch to Bitcoin. You know, the banks are dead. Just, like, going after them. And they were so fucking pissed off. And then they ran out of gas on the on the fucking news.  

And the strike guys jumped right on top of it. They tweeted out the transaction decline. PNC Bank.   But I I was joking that they were playing with fire, like, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if in a month you just have,   all strike transfers out of PNC Bank just get fucking.   Yeah.   But that was that was pretty fucking full. Right, Pete? That's really good. It's.  

[00:08:53] Unknown:

Yeah. It was a real honor to be there. Yeah. And good on Jack. I mean, the work he did to,   firstly, he designed the car himself.   Yeah. He's liked everyone up. He's raised a bunch of money of which a bunch will go to Bitcoin desk.   Yeah. Big shout out to Jack and everything we did there.  

[00:09:10] Unknown:

So what was the structure? Was it, like, some percentage goes to the parts, some percentage goes to the numbers?  

[00:09:16] Unknown:

So normally, they have the car sponsored by,   like at any tree during or a Cheetos or something. He this year said he wanted to do something different   and was happy to go for a Bitcoin car, but they had their, basic cost they had to cover.   So once they got that got covered, then it was like a 70 30 split. Yeah. 70 goes to open source development and 30 goes to cars. Yeah.  

[00:09:38] Unknown:

They were also they sold more merch than they've ever sold before. It was going globally,   like, to countries that they've never sold merch to. Like, when you normally have a sponsor, the sponsor doesn't bring fans with you.   With Bitcoin,   we're all fucking obsessed.   So, like, all of a sudden, like, the engagement was crazy. They're getting merged from all over the place. When we were walking to the pit, like, everyone was stopping and looking at the Bitcoin car. Right? It was the car to look   at. You go to the PNC one. There was no one. They have, like, a little fence around their car. The guy was just sat there The fence was there because of us. Right? Yeah. They, like, knew we were coming. They knew they were next to the Bitcoin car. They knew the the little fence up. Yeah. That's cool. Classic bank move, you know, put  

[00:10:19] Unknown:

a put a  

[00:10:20] Unknown:

Double rope? It was cool. It was, yeah, it was like one of those, you know, like elastic,  

[00:10:25] Unknown:

Yeah. There's no such thing as a PNC thing.  

[00:10:28] Unknown:

Yeah. They know my oh, this is my favorite bank.   And then the other thing I was thinking is is, like, just   we kept saying I mean, maybe it's a cliche. You know, I'm always fucking bullish. Right? But   I was getting ridiculously bullish, and we just kept all turning to each other like, oh, we're so fucking early. You know? We're so fucking early.   And, you know, in 10 years,   I think, like, most of these teams are gonna be owned by Bitcoiners. So it's gonna be like the 1 Fiat car, and then all, like, all Bitcoiners are just gonna be throwing their egos around racing each other. Right? Like, there's like,   it'll it'll become the norm really quick and probably in all sports. You know, we have, like, our one EPL team.  

You know, we have Watford. It's just gonna be it's just gonna all be dominated with, like, big corners and egos.   And I feel like we'll know where we really made it when all the conspiracy theories involved, you know, big corners, like meeting behind closed doors like Illuminati   shit. That'd be funny.  

[00:11:20] Unknown:

Can't wait to do that. I mean, that's what this week is for. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Good.  

[00:11:24] Unknown:

Not priced in. Right?   But,   first time ever watching IndyCar. We all just became fans on the fly. So let's fucking go.   I I it seems like a partnership that will last a very long time, and I'm very excited about it. The IndyCar will be at the conference.   I'm not sure if it's being   if there's gonna be a charity auction around it, but there there's literally a scannable QR code on the fucking car. And you can still donate this week. Right?   The donations are are it's ongoing constantly. So strike dot me slash racing,   support the car,   support our rookie of the year driver,   support open source development.  

It's just really fucking exciting. And they were all pumped. The team, the Ed Carpenter Racing team was super excited.   They   if if they really bought in. It felt like they were really a part it wasn't a publicity stunt, you know. It I and I could see a lot of people on the sidelines thinking it was a publicity stunt. Don't blame them. You know, if you had a Dogecoin car, like, what, like 4 years ago,   that was a publicity stunt. Like, I don't think the driver was, like,   on board with those going. You know?   But,   this didn't feel like a publicity stunt. Right?  



[00:12:40] Unknown:

Yeah. Not really. No. I mean, it it just felt I really thought it's really hard to explain it.   It just felt like   our time was coming.   Like, you know, it it almost like if it had been a few years ago, it would have been, like, slightly embarrassing.   There's a bit weird. But when you went like you said, when you went to the car, the car was packed with people taking photos.   Like and and   I thought every car was like that, and then we we stepped forward.   There's hardly any people around the other cars. Everyone was interested as a Bitcoin car, and then you would see something like go, oh, where can I get one of those hats? Like, everyone was hyped to come for it. I I mean, yeah, the merch was dope. Jack designed all of, like it was it was it wasn't just the car. It was, like, all the equipment,  

[00:13:22] Unknown:

all the, you know, all the all the pit crews they were all wearing, you know, matching Bitcoin uniforms. It was everything. It wasn't just the car.   It's really cool. I mean, we had Saifon there. We had Russ there. We had Jessica Vaughn there. It was a show. Yeah. It was awesome. It was a really good time. We got a helicopter. But, yeah, you guys are on the helicopter. That's a real flex.   Yeah. Wait. Tell us about that.  

[00:13:45] Unknown:

Well, I got up in the morning. No. No. So the night before, just before we're we're going off, and they said, oh, we're getting a helicopter into the tracks. Well, I actually   petrified the helicopters. That's fucked. And they didn't wanna do it, but I was like,   it's it was Jack,   Jessica,   Ross,   and then it will go and have a helicopter. So I've got a bird, but the whole time I'm on Saturday.  

[00:14:08] Unknown:

It's the richest way to die.   It's horrible. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you guys made it alright.   So IndyCar,   that was dope as fuck.   Now we could go back to tapper. We're gonna have tapper probably signal this this   this difficulty adjustment period.   The main pool that isn't signaling right now is Marathon Pool, former   Marathon Digital Holdings, formerly   Marathon Patent Group, Professional Patent Trolls.  

[00:14:43] Unknown:

When you say Maine,  

[00:14:44] Unknown:

I mean, they're pretty insignificant as far as But they're the largest that isn't right? Yeah. Yeah. So what are they, like, 5% or something? No. That's Yeah. 2%. Yeah. 1 point something. Yes. Still not that.   So they what they had like a press a press release yesterday   where they said they're signaling they're gonna start signaling for Taply. Yeah. Yeah. And stop filtering transactions.  

[00:15:07] Unknown:

Looked like a deep thing. Yeah.  

[00:15:10] Unknown:

So you just checked just before the show. Right? Like, they're still not actually signaling. They're not they're not signaling.  

[00:15:17] Unknown:

They're at They're at 1%. And it still says OFAC compliant block at on every block in the tag. Let's give them, like, a day or 2. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the things is, like, I mean, I've been pretty consistent that people should be,   you know, skeptical.   Let actions speak louder than words. Let you know, let's see how things play out. You know, lower your time preference. Don't fucking, like, rush into speculation and shit.   But one thing that people should keep in mind is   is   as far as whether or not you're signaling in a block versus a press release, it's   It's like it's almost the same as a as a press release. Right? It's true.  



[00:16:00] Unknown:

Yeah. We can hardly know if they actually stop,   filtering transactions or not, so we can't verify that.  

[00:16:07] Unknown:

Or we can see if, like, high transactions   like, high fee transactions Yeah. Yeah. You can try to to calculate that. Would would they still be down to filter transactions   if they could still activate   taproot? Like, is it just the client that's preventing them now from filtering their blocks? Or like what it's really curious related really. Yeah. It sounded like they port Bitcoin to wire, and then they added all this filtering,  

[00:16:32] Unknown:

stuff to it. And now they're like, well, we still want single tap root, so we'll upgrade our client, and we're not gonna use our fork that's filtering no fac anymore. We upgrade.   We're gonna signal for tap root,  

[00:16:44] Unknown:

and and which just makes me and then we'll do the censorship in the future. Yeah.  

[00:16:48] Unknown:

It makes me think, well, what if if you don't give a fuck about OFAC and clients right now, and you're just willing to throw that away, then why even do it in the first half? They're not gonna throw it away. These types of companies, like, you know, they were patent folks before. Right? So it's like you know, they yeah. They they  

[00:17:03] Unknown:

you know, they have a plan. They wanna be those rent seeking, you know, like,   pieces of shit. Right? So it's like, okay. We got a lot of flack for this. We're gonna abandon this, but down the line, you know, they're not gonna stop. So should all keep an eye on these guys no matter what. Yeah. Constant vigilance. Yeah. If you don't really know  

[00:17:21] Unknown:

if this is what they really wanted or if it was a community pressure probably. I mean, we really made a lot of noise last week on Twitter. Yeah. I like to think we had a a strong influence on this,  

[00:17:33] Unknown:

bending of the knee. Well, I think also because,   Sailor was showing,   Marathon too.   You know, he he got a lot of the flat,   like, associated with marathon. Like, why are you showing this OFAC compliant  

[00:17:46] Unknown:

nonsense? Right? I think Nidec's pretty big in   marathon.   And,   NIDIG, you know, Ross Stevens, they seem to get it as well. So I I wouldn't be surprised if they see a lot of the,   blowback and and I mean, on the press release, the marathon press release on the bottom, it had an explainer about NYDIG in there. I don't know,   like, what that what, you know, what that reasoning is, but they must be,   perhaps.  

[00:18:13] Unknown:

They could have got the pressure for you.   I think the team said, hey. Guys.  

[00:18:17] Unknown:

Yeah. I do kinda feel like Sailor was involved as well.  

[00:18:21] Unknown:

So so was mayor a part of that closed door Yes. In the app? Okay. So even more recently.  

[00:18:28] Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, that that's my biggest concern is not the environmental side. It's this OFAC. It it's it's it's having a large group of miners   deciding on blacklisting transactions and not including them in. And I as long as that group is less than 51%,   it should be fine.   And you might have to pay a higher fee if you're if you're doing a a transaction that's being censored, but another miner should pick it up.   But specifically, as a coin join user, you know, this is a very   it's very visible on chain. It's a very easy thing for mine to just be like, we're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna mine coin joint transactions.   But I think   it's important as users that we we pick up that coin joint number   so that it'll be visible if they try to do that. Like, if they do that, they they need to be alienating a large amount of UTXOs. Like, I feel like it's a visible  

[00:19:20] Unknown:

thing. Thing. I'm really curious on your opinion, Wiz. Well, you know, that's why it's kind of important for the transaction fee market to build. Right? Because if if you can mine any blocks and get huge block rewards, then there's not a huge incentive to, you know, include all these high value coin joint transactions. But as the block reward goes down and the transaction fees go up, then, you know, more,   the binding revenue is directly from transactions. So they really don't wanna censor them. Now they're just doing it because they're gonna get the long form anyway.  

[00:19:51] Unknown:

Well, I Yeah. But there were still, economic difference. Like, when we're starting to see the 1st marathon OFAC blocks. Right? The next block took, like, another, like, almost quarter of a Bitcoin in rewards from the the thieves. Right?  

[00:20:04] Unknown:

So we actually got to price what the virtue signaling cost, which was pretty interesting. Awesome. So it it actually sends certain transactions. Right? It's just, like, pure virtue signal. There's a recent project that came out where it's actually comparing what should have been the next block to what the miners actually mined. And and I don't know if to date we've actually seen Marathon since writing. Right? Like, we we can kind of we have the tools now to see if they are censoring transactions,   and I just don't know if we've, like, verified if they are. I mean, the old fact list isn't that big. It's not it's not.  



[00:20:36] Unknown:

No. But all the transactions in the block were projected to be in that next block anyway. So it wasn't really  

[00:20:42] Unknown:

virtue signal of putting it in the tag   is almost the worst part. Right? Just like every time they find a block, it says OFAC compliant block. And they're almost insinuating that anything that doesn't say that is a non compliant block. And the chain analysis move that we've seen with chain analysis in the exchanges   is they're gonna the the playbook is you lobby   to the to the point where you make all your competitors have to comply with it too. Like, you make   you make the need for your service to exist in the first place.  

[00:21:10] Unknown:

I guess that's kind of that's why there's so much, money hash power in both China and USA now and it's probably Russia to get, like, a nice mix of all these jurisdictions.  

[00:21:18] Unknown:

Better hostile to each other. Exactly. Yeah. The game theory of big companies.  

[00:21:24] Unknown:

Yo, Wiz.   Jump in.   Split them over here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:21:30] Unknown:

Here we go. Yeah.  

[00:21:32] Unknown:

Okay. Now you guys can hear Wiz better. He's he's got his, important insights. We need to be up Wait. Wait. Before we move on, what's the name of that new site that says,   you know, what what the block template looks like versus what actually   the mempool server or something, I think. Mempool observer. Anyway, it's it's an excellent tool, and it's got a whole lot of value. You guys should check it out. If someone could link in the comments, that'd be great.  

[00:21:53] Unknown:

That's   what yeah.  

[00:21:57] Unknown:

Mempool observer.   Well, Mempool space has it, but, we don't actually display it. So it's in it's on the task list to do. But we we do calculate,   Simon already calculates the,   the accuracy. Right? So,   if we project certain amount of transactions that are gonna be the next block, it's usually, like, 97 to 99%   accurate,   whatever actually gets fine.  

[00:22:21] Unknown:

Sweet. That makes sense. That's how we know. That's like the early warning system. Right?  

[00:22:25] Unknown:

Yeah. But, I mean, it's always hard to tell exactly because of variance and network latency and, you know, when the miners start mining a block template,   there's this huge amount of lag when the new transactions are coming into the mempool. Right? Right. So we have we have  

[00:22:41] Unknown:

I have a a bunch of money on the line about Taproot.   If tap if if Taproot locks in this period, I lose 2,000,000 sats to you, I lose a bottle of whiskey to you,   I lose a 1,000,000 sats that I have to send to HRF for losing to Marty.   We're probably not gonna hit 200 k by conference day. Fuck that one.   And then   what was it? I had one more that I that I messed up as well. You should be speaking about a lead. Right? Yeah. We're we're betting a 1,000,000,000. Right? Do we have a no. I don't care   I'm not I'm not conversational recorded, so I expect a clip out of of the dispatch where that bad happened if you're gonna try and,   I don't delete tweets either, so I expect them to tweet. No. The do we think the mempool is gonna clear? Do you think the mempool is gonna clear this adjustment period? Because that's the other thing I've been flexing on.  

And now right now, I'm pretty sure we're at, like, one separate bite is going through right now. I told you it's gonna last forever. Okay?   But I think the You don't really think it will. Not forever, but there will be periods where it comes back, you know, in the foreseeable future at least. Well Not forever forever. Well, the floor is just no longer 0 or 1 sat. Right now the floor is variable and sometimes it goes up 4 or 5, even 10, 15 sat. Right? Well, so in 5 years in 5 years, do you think does anyone on on this   on these 2 couches think that you'll be able to,   you know, have a one set for bike confirmation confirm. Wait. What? In 2 years? In 5 years. 5 years? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not it's gonna become more and more increasingly rare. Right? But there's still gonna be opportunities   for that until, you know, the whole world adopts this thing.  



[00:24:18] Unknown:

I think, we still got a lot of wiggle room. I don't think so, but what I do think is that a lot of people are trying to be more smart with their UTXO set right now. Mhmm. So I think,   we're seeing I mean, even you understand that, Bob, they were seeing more,   consolidation periods, more areas where we're trying to have the best UTXO set that we can so we don't need to consolidate. Because right now, I think, you know, there's been a lot of, like, you know,   4 or 5 u, set to byte transactions going through that are 100   to 1,000 of of UTXO sets being consolidated. So I think we're gonna start seeing,   exchanges   have better practices around UTXOs and things like that that will help. But, yeah, I don't know. 5 years,   once that provides?  

I don't think so.  

[00:25:05] Unknown:

Well, there there's probably gonna be, like, out of band.   There's probably gonna, secondary market for mempool space and blockchain space will develop. Right? So,   people will make private deal private deals with mining pools.   You know,   maybe the fees they pay are even, like, 0 in the transaction, but they'll have some kind of private arrangement with miners maybe. I think that's something we could we could see soon because businesses typically wanna have some kind of, regular   Agreeable. Predictable. Yeah. For business case purposes. Right? So it's like a subscription service almost. Exactly. Yeah. So I recently used it's called, like, tx push.com.  

[00:25:42] Unknown:

And I was, I had a lightning channel that opening that was gonna be too it was too low of a SAP provider, but it wasn't gonna go through within 2 weeks.   What I actually saw, I wanted to use that service to pay a minor out of band to open up to to mine my transaction that was too low. They wanted to charge, like, $50.   Like, I don't I forgot how many it was all the time, but $50.   And that was just, like, way too much. So I think, like, those services are great.   I think if they could lower their fee a little bit more, that would be better, but they did allow me to pay with lightning. So I could push the transaction faster with lightning, which I thought was pretty cool. It's just it was just too high of cost. Yeah. I think their pricing structure is,  

[00:26:22] Unknown:

not. It doesn't make sense in reality. Like, they're just kind of saying, like, yeah, our price is a $100 or $200. Like, it's, it's not a big enough market to, like Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. The market's not efficient, so they're just kind of quoting,   this kind of weird pricing model. So I think that's what's gonna happen. Right? It's a real market will develop for, like, mempool space.  

[00:26:43] Unknown:

I mean, also, like, right now, I mean, how many people are using services like that? It's usually, like, if there's, like, an ocean thing, like, I really, really, really need this to go through. So it's like you you might be willing to pay a $100. But you can always CPF, PA it, or RBF it usually. Right.  

[00:26:58] Unknown:

Or if it gets purged, then you can abandon it and make a new transaction. So there's lots of things you can usually do. The out of band prioritization is probably, like,   something that'll only happen maybe, like, 5 years from now, maybe 2 years from now. Well, it's already it's already kind of happening. Right? But not Yeah. It's just not a mature market yet. Exactly. Yeah. But there's there's definitely some,   like, oh, shit use cases where people just need to get confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if, like, exchanges are already having conversations with large miners. Right? But they typically use such a high fee.   They always wanna get into the next block. Right? Like, if you look at these, we used to call it big max o'clock when they would do their at 9 AM EST. Dude, they would just flood the fucking It was like that fool. Hilariously   unoptimized.  

They would just spend, like,   1,000 of dollars on a single transaction fee for, like, no apparent reason just because they and and all of their, UTXOs were, like,   these huge multisig wallet,   spends so that the transaction size was, like, several blocks big. Right? It was, like, several megabytes worth of transactions   all just   at the same time. So,   fortunately, I think now they optimize it, though. I always thought it was interesting that they,  

[00:28:10] Unknown:

you know, were clearly running a business that American regulators didn't like,   and they didn't try at all to hide their on chain activity. Like, all their addresses are 3 v max. They're like they were at the time. You know, they were always sending out the withdrawals the same time every day. They just didn't have didn't care at all. The landlord wasn't a concern at all.  

[00:28:30] Unknown:

Well, they got they got using a native Segwit now as they know? I don't know. They have KYC now. So Oh, yeah. That's fine. Nobody is. Yeah.  

[00:28:40] Unknown:

Talk about negative.  

[00:28:42] Unknown:

I don't know if it's been mentioned recently, but blockchain.com  

[00:28:45] Unknown:

started doing it. They end up saying Finally. And they were Nobody should use them for this. No one should use them. Right? But it's projected that, like, 30%  

[00:28:53] Unknown:

of, like, transactions are coming from I think more than that. Right? I think it's the API. Is it really that high, Webb? It's because they're API.  

[00:28:59] Unknown:

Well, it's just because it's a network effects. They were, like, first to market. Right? Yeah. That's true. And so they were the first one to offer that, like, API. That was one thing we were thinking about doing with mempool spaces to to basically just implement the same, blockchain, that info API so that people could easily migrate. Because now we we support, blockchain that info API. So if we have added blockchain that info API, then we could allow everyone to easily self host their own,   blockchain explorer APIs and and,   you know,   decentralize the concept of blockchain explorer.  



[00:29:29] Unknown:

But, like   so we, like, got a little bit   derailed there.   I can't   I just can't see how one sapper byte   will still confirm in 5 years. If, like, the block size isn't if, like, block space isn't gonna get less scarce.   And people are adopting like, we're about to see I mean, unless I'm just completely fucking wrong, unless bunch of us are completely wrong. Like, we're about to see a massive push of retail adoption   towards the end of this year.   You know, usually in these cycles, you see magnitudes,   right, of increases. Right. And we've never, like,   how does that   how do you circle both of those together and then end up in a situation   where,  

[00:30:14] Unknown:

you know, mempools are just not gonna always be fucking clogged. Well, Satoshi   designed the block reward to trend towards 0. And so, obviously, the fee transaction market has to develop   more than 1 sat per byte to be able to compensate Myers. We had we had Adam on the on dispatch  

[00:30:32] Unknown:

together,   and he said   I was, like, 2 hours into the show or whatever. He said he was like, if if fees got to, like, $1,000   or I guess whatever, like, equivalent purchasing power of a $1,000, then he would support a block size increase.   Like,   that was probably untenable, will never happen.   And so is he saying that he doesn't think we're we're gonna hit that amount? And then to me, when people don't think that, that's usually when we're definitely gonna hit it. You know? Especially someone like that. Like but a block size increase could be many things. Right? I mean, maybe there's some new technology,  

[00:31:07] Unknown:

smart people figure out a few years from now where you can   batch transactions in an even more Right. Creative way. More efficiency. Yeah. The block size 2, stuff like that. Like Segment was a block size increase. Right? Right. Tapper will be similar in Right. Some way. So  

[00:31:23] Unknown:

You could get to a $1,000   for a transaction. How many wallets will be trapped or maybe to spend?  

[00:31:30] Unknown:

Well, the fiat value doesn't matter. Right? It's more of a Yeah.  

[00:31:33] Unknown:

Like because it's priced in sats. Exactly. And the   so that's why we we should never like, I quoted Adam because Adam said that, but we should never talk about fees in dollar   amounts because it could be a 1 sapro byte transaction that costs   $1,000. Right? And just Satch are just fucking the standard. So Yeah. But thinking about people who worked on that DCI setup and stuff. Yeah. You get so fucked so quickly. Yeah. You fucked. And you I feel like it turns it could turn   very quickly on people. And we saw that. Right? So so   the last three difficulty adjustments we had   were double digit difficulty adjustments. We had a double digit down, a double digit up, and then a double digit down again. That's exceedingly rare. Right? Like, I to me, that's,   like, Bitcoiners should be   you you shouldn't panic,   you know. You shouldn't,   flood yourself out of generational wealth.  

But   Well, that was Your your alarm bell should be ringing when that's happening. Right? Like, that shouldn't be happening on the regular like that. So what's the narrative? The rainy season in China   or I thought the Do you remember that? Is that narrative been a historical narrative to you? I mean, it might have just been less significant back then. And now Are there less Chinese miners as a percentage than there used to be?  

[00:32:48] Unknown:

Maybe in that area. I prefer  

[00:32:50] Unknown:

no?   I I I mean, mining so so a lot of people are still using the older s nine generation hardware to mine, right, which would be totally unprofitable at certain,   price points or even,   you know, like, if they had to if their electricity is 4¢ versus 3¢ or 2, so it might be a huge difference for their   profitability or non profitability. Right? So if they had to move, like, physically pack up all the miners and go somewhere else, they might have actually had to.  

[00:33:21] Unknown:

Continue talking.   We got the audience got me a beer.  

[00:33:27] Unknown:

Sitting out this batch is filming in front of a live studio audience.  

[00:33:33] Unknown:

Do we think is is China is China banning Bitcoin this time for real or is it just,   for real?  

[00:33:40] Unknown:

Of course not.   It's it's like a yearly ban.  

[00:33:43] Unknown:

Monthly? Monthly ban. Some people seem pretty confident that, you know, mining is gonna be illegal in China and It's monthly. Too mixed. Yeah. They they seem monthly. Yeah. They seem really confident the last 6 times. Well, you know,  

[00:33:56] Unknown:

it's like Exactly. It's a matter of how pragmatic it is. Like, you just can't. Well, I bet you there's also, like, some, like, nuances that we're not getting because, you know, like, we're not in that world.  

[00:34:07] Unknown:

So it might be, like, certain types of miners or, like, maybe those who are using coal or whatever. Yeah. We need some boots on the ground freaks in China to give us the But the fact of the matter is we still have 1 SaaS confirmed. Like, that's for sure. So I think Matt puts it best when he says like, hey. There's a lot of FUD going on about how miners are leaving the pack of houses going to Kazakhstan and all these other places. But, hey. Guess what? There's one SaaS confirmed. Like, I mean, just look just verify that. And sure, we can Right. Like, that's ridiculous. Right? Like, that should just not be a  

[00:34:37] Unknown:

But over there. Way the difficulty adjustment,   period while minors are fucking scrambling and panicking. We're having 1 separate bytes going through.  

[00:34:46] Unknown:

Yeah. That's for sure. Yeah. It was like overnight, half the hash power disappeared. Right? And 6102 was freaking out. It was like, this is what it would look like if a 51   percent attack was gonna happen. That's exactly what it would look like when you have the,  

[00:34:59] Unknown:

like, a hash rug pull.  

[00:35:01] Unknown:

Yeah. But it it all came back, right, like, a couple weeks later, and then Well, do you remember what the claim for that one was? It was  

[00:35:08] Unknown:

it was like the Chinese government of this province decided to, like, shut down, like, a street of Bitcoin miners or something. Right? They're like, oh, they turned the power off because of a coal accident. Yeah. Some accident. Right? Some fire and some coal plant.  

[00:35:19] Unknown:

Something. How do we know if any of it should actually That's what I'm saying. Right? Know. You can't really know even if this is just accident and because the thing is random. When you your chance Yeah. That stuff is random. Like, theoretically,  

[00:35:32] Unknown:

this could just There would be no change in hash rate, and theoretically,   there is a chance that the brand has prevailed and we've had the the sound drop and up upswing and down drop and difficulty adjustment.   It is random. So Yeah. So you cannot verify anything here.  

[00:35:49] Unknown:

You you mean, you have a simulation.  

[00:35:51] Unknown:

Go check or something. We are looking at this. No. No. We have, like, big corners, like, won't shut up on Twitter about, like, fake news and mainstream media is lying to you. And then, like, there's some,   like, a random excuse from China comes down. Everyone's like, well, that's definitely what's happening.  

[00:36:04] Unknown:

Yeah. Was it the same people, though?  

[00:36:07] Unknown:

Yeah. A lot of times it's the same people.   I don't know. Get it together.   Well, I I mean so I mean, the difficulty adjustment is working as designed.   Just does anyone here think   I mean, what do we think the hash rate in China is right now? Like, 60% or something? 50%?  

[00:36:25] Unknown:

What's that? Right? It's hard to say because   even if you had a lot of mining hash power in America, you could still route it to, like, a Chinese mining pool, and it would look like the Chinese,   mining pool hash rate is much higher than it actually is.   So that's hard that's hard to say. Like, the miners are kind of like or the mining pools are kinda like a proxy in that sense.  

[00:36:43] Unknown:

Because   I guess my point is, in 5 years, do does anyone here think that less than 30% of the hash rate will be in China?   Less than 30?   Yeah.   Well, no. Because they have a huge amount of hydro. I think everybody's gonna hear that. I mean, the hydro dam is a huge thing. Exactly. Biggest hydro dam ever. Like, that's gonna change a lot. Don't they, like, overbuild in hydro and they're like, oh, we can't use all this.  

[00:37:06] Unknown:

There's, like, an entire city where the central government forced everyone in that city to become like an electrical engineer. This is like a central planning thing. And then they said, you know, your your entire purpose of this city is just to generate electricity   for the country if we need it, like, strategically. Right?   So that's why they have so much access.   Central time. Well, I mean You have to get, like, nuclear power. Right? Yeah. Like, if Russia wants to make some   state operated nuclear maybe Chernobyl, you know, would be a good use case. I don't know.  

[00:37:37] Unknown:

Well, also, like, gen 4 nuclear, I mean, I didn't really know. That's nothing about it, but that's what a lot of, like, miners are hyping. They think that gen 4 nuclear is gonna be the thing that's gonna take off in the US, and it's, like, really easy to bootstrap,   and, like, get off the ground, like, as far as, like, profitability and stuff like that, like, current nuclear plants. They get to look so far in advance to, like, you know, project, like, oh, when are we gonna breakeven? But with these, since they're, like, more packed and more, you know, cheaper,   you're gonna be able to have, like, these, smaller nuclear plants all across the country. I don't know if this is actually the case. I think it's,   you know, easier said than done, but if that happens, then, you know, you might see my transition to that. Also the political climate in America is gonna   result in a bunch of Man, that's that's the one thing, though. Right? Like, the the political climate and, like, the,   you know, the flood against nuclear is humongous in the states.  



[00:38:35] Unknown:

Yeah. But it's hard to also just say, like, a blanket terms, like,   in America. It's like, things have become, like, so divided, and you gotta look like a state by state thing. You know what I mean? We're gonna we're gonna fracture. Is that what you're saying? Oh, eventually, but not right now. But, like, you could definitely see something happen like that in, like, you know, Texas or maybe down here in Florida or, you know, somewhere remote. Well, there's some power plants like New York that were doing mining. Right? Not like nuclear, but just traditional. Yeah. There's some some carbon neutral deal that I heard about in New York, but at the same time, there's also, like, a moratorium for the next 3 years going on. I think it depends on the source. And I think mine is gonna be, like, pretty much pushed out of New York for a little bit of these. No. New York's got a lot of problems. You're trying to taxider.   Try to add additional regulations to that. Well, of course, all these bureaucrats wanna, you know, get their tax to keep the thing going. Yeah. Yeah. My Bitcoin miners were running for years, and I never solved a single block. I was really unlucky. Oh, man. That sucks.  

We have Romario   Huddle in the comments asking if this is the   the Ben Kaufman.   Yes. It is. Yeah. The one and only. Yep. You made it to   America. You're staying here. Yay. No. It's gonna be awesome. Yeah.   Pure breakers kicking in,   Yeah. Yeah.   No. It's awesome here.   What what do you,   Peter, I'm curious.   You're you're in touch with the normies more than most of us.   Do you think do you think this this,   this Chinese all these rumors about the Chinese mining issues, do you think that's, like, a mainstream concern by people, or do you think it's just   something that Bitcoiners are obsessed with?  



[00:40:17] Unknown:

I think,   I mean, in terms of this, I don't think anyone   could normally pay attention to it. They just see the price drops, and they see Chinese miners about it. It might be the first time they've heard about it, and then they panic.  

[00:40:29] Unknown:

Right. And do you think   so what about this whole, like, Elon narrative? Like, this idea that Elon crashed the price because you attacked Elon. Yeah. Yeah.   Yeah. Right. Let's talk about this.  

[00:40:42] Unknown:

Do you I think we've had,   what, about 4 weeks of constant shit.   I think you can just I think that's enough to to to scare a few people.   If you speak to Willie Wurm, he was analyzing the coins   that moved on to exchange. He said there were newer coins from newer, you know,   probably the cost of fish he gave them, but Do we believe in the on chain analytics   stuff? I know you're not sure, are you?  

[00:41:08] Unknown:

It kind of feels like TA, but the new TA. Yeah. Well, you could you could crash the price on BitMex where no we're just purely derivatives. Right? So how much what percentage of the Bitcoin volume is in derivatives and and and spot market. Right?   Yeah. That's true. Well, I mean, if you look at the BitMex volume, it's like fucking insane. I don't I That's exactly my point though. Right? Like yeah. You know, even you take, like, the traditional market like silver or gold.   There's examples of people just buying all the silver futures and saying, yeah. I wanna take delivery, and the market just goes and says But there's like I I mean even more than that. Like, you see, like, the stats where they're like,  

[00:41:44] Unknown:

like, Bitcoin days lost stuff. Or like the SAD stackers that have been accumulating during this period because, like,   these addresses   have have been increasing under a Bitcoin, but about this like, who are these people that are reusing their addresses and sending them all to the same address and, like, would like I know I'm not counting on those metrics.  

[00:42:03] Unknown:

Like, is is it I don't know. It's it's I don't believe it. And and and the exchanges. I mean, you see those things like, oh, a whale went to Coinbase or an unknown whale, but now there's things like that. And and literally, Coinbase at any point in time could spin up a new address and send a bunch of funds that way. And what these analytic companies or these on chain,   you know, heuristic companies are doing. They're they're saying, oh,   Coinbase just a a huge whale went out of Coinbase into an unknown address. It's like, literally, you don't know. That could be Coinbase. Right. That's the other stat. They're saying, like,  

[00:42:37] Unknown:

more coins are leaving exchanges than ever before. Right? I don't believe But meanwhile, Sailor's buying them on Coinbase and then sending them to a custodial custodial provider. Like, is that even like, you can't tell on chain if that's happening. Unless OpenNode  

[00:42:49] Unknown:

has, like, all these exchanges ex pubs,  

[00:42:52] Unknown:

I'm not gonna have to look at any of that. Yeah. But even so, the thing that really moves the price is, like, leverage traders just getting liquidated   wrecked. Right? Like, that's where you see, like, those cascading They don't even leave the exchange ever. I mean Those the coins never even existed. Right? It was just purely like derivatives, bit mixed, like, bucket shop style.  

[00:43:10] Unknown:

I mean, we went from 4 to 4,000 64,000   in,   a year,   and,   I think some people would have been selling some very tasty,   stacks of Bitcoin.   And I think the market got shook out by a constant energy narrative.   It was a a real boost in the market when Elon Musk   bought in bought in Yeah. Definitely. 500,000,000   and then said he was gonna sell cars with Bitcoin.   Doesn't one eighteen, said he's not. He's gonna blame coal, which sits alongside the energy narrative. It's a frothy market. There's a lot of leverage trades out there.   And then we get hit with the China mining situation. I just think there was a lot of things happening that maybe switched to few people. So I'm just sort of, fuck. This is a good time to save some money for the table.  



[00:43:58] Unknown:

Maybe buy a car. But Bitcoin had such a solid, like, run up, and there was all these leveraged positions, and they just got whacked and just wrecked. But wasn't wasn't the leverage  

[00:44:09] Unknown:

drop from about,   under 38?   Was it under 38 where it dipped down?   That was where, like, the cascade, like, wind down afterward. Just within a very short amount of time, dipped down to, like, 24 k back up. Well, if you like hunt,  

[00:44:24] Unknown:

you know, especially,   you know, the professional traders, they like hunt the leverage guys because, you know, it's a very mental thing. So, like,   like a degen trader when they're, like, setting their liquidation price or whatever,   they go, oh, well, it'll never fall below 40. So, like, I I'm gonna I'm just gonna make my liquidation price, you know, like,   38, you know, 900. Right underneath   where where it is. And so they, like, go they try and dip just below those big round numbers. And if they can hit if they can hit, like, a bunch of big liquidations, then it just fucking cascades.   And I a lot of times we I feel like we almost have more leverage in the system because you have   you   you have, like, these loan providers that are also adding,   you know, this this idea of,   you know, taking out a loan on your Bitcoin   and then, you know, maybe, like, buying an Aston Martin or something. Can I name a few?  



[00:45:22] Unknown:

Yeah. That's a good story.  

[00:45:24] Unknown:

The the Aston Martin actually did work out. Saw that. Double my Bitcoin. It's worth more sats now. Yes.   But I do feel like there's there's, like, a more of a normalization of leverage. Right? Like, it used to be it used to be and maybe that's just because the market is more mature. Like, no one,   lectures someone for taking out leverage on their house even though that's the majority of their net worth.   For most people is their house. No one you know, you never hear someone at, like, the dinner table at Thanksgiving go like, you're super irresponsible. You took a mortgage out on your house in this, you know, super speculative market. So maybe it's because it's more mature, but it does feel like it's been normalized,  

[00:46:02] Unknown:

more so than previous cycles. In previous cycles, you just knew you were a d gen if you were trading on BitMax. Like, you knew kind of what you're getting into. It had a 100 x product. The other thing is, like, in the grand scheme of things, does any of this really matter? Because if you think about it, again, when we were sitting at 4 to 6000 last year, if someone had said, look, we'll be at 20 k within a year, everyone will be gonna fuck. I'll take that. Yeah. Exactly. Where where where we at?  

[00:46:28] Unknown:

$38,000   right now of Bitcoin. That's fucking insane. The only people this matters to are the people who joined since Christmas. That's all it matters. Well, not if they were stacking. If they were just staying on those saggy sats, they're probably still up right now. Yeah. But I'm just saying this, like I haven't done that. I would imagine everyone in this room is kind of okay.   You get that wealth. I mean, I bought the top   and every everything in between.  

[00:46:49] Unknown:

Bought the top and everything in between. I mean, I yeah. Would you say it's a good thing, though, that all this leverage is being liquidated?   Like, I mean, it it it sucks that,   maybe if have gotten into it and they've overleveraged.   Right?   But,   when you say it's a good thing that, you know, we we trashed all the way down to, like, 30 k or whatever,   and we have all the we have all this leverage liquidated. Like, I would think that's a good thing. That's probably a good thing. It's a healthy it it it builds a healthy base, in my opinion. I think the most health the most important thing is where is our floor, and it feels like our floor is 30,000 at the moment. It feels like, oh, you did it. You said it. You put it out there.  

[00:47:28] Unknown:

Don't worry, guys. I don't wanna say it. But what I'm saying is, like, it feels like it's it's struggle to be on someone. The stand of the it keeps bouncing back up. And now I I don't know anyone else, but that time, we were ranging around 10,000, you know, up and down for months. It feels like we're we're just in a range between  

[00:47:46] Unknown:

When the Space Cat just kept saying never gonna  

[00:47:56] Unknown:

That's how every market cycle goes. Right? You have, like, this huge run up. Everyone's, you know, over liquidated, then they get wrecked. It just got crashes down.   Robin?   K.  

[00:48:09] Unknown:

No. I think no. I think we just got cut. I think we just our recording just cut.   They lost can you still hear us? Live chat, can you still hear us? Peter called the top of it. We lost   Yeah. Everyone's on the exchange right now. Yeah.   Camera's gone, but they could still hear us.  

[00:48:26] Unknown:

What about No bid.   Damn.  

[00:48:28] Unknown:

Oh, we're working we're working on it, freaks.   I'm working on it, so we know you can still hear us. Shit. I hope it's not you on Connor.  

[00:48:36] Unknown:

Come   on.  

[00:48:38] Unknown:

Live still on Twitch.   You are back. Came here. No video. You're good. Yes. On Twitter.  

[00:48:45] Unknown:

Alright. We can hear you. Yes.  

[00:48:47] Unknown:

Wait. Try turning off the video and turning it back on again. Yeah. Let's get that again.   We're working on it, freaks.   While we're here I mean, I think we can just keep talking because, you know, this is a podcast. For bed. And, usually, the show is audio only.   So it's not the worst thing in the world while Wizz figures this out. I mean, I think we we have millions of fucking   big corners out there that are just stacking regardless of the price. Right? And, like, that's really the   that's the ultimate signal.   The signal isn't really, you know, the short term   price movements. I mean, that's dominated as as Wiz said. Right? It's dominated by leverage trading and traders.  



[00:49:30] Unknown:

I think we should should have harassed Elon out of town.   So everyone gets his Bitcoin. So he sells on the water,  

[00:49:37] Unknown:

and everyone gets his Bitcoin. That'd be Oh, where's that word? Harass that.  

[00:49:42] Unknown:

Keep hammering it to be so   so pussy.  

[00:49:46] Unknown:

Yeah. Fuck yourself. Yeah. Elon, you hear that? Peter's talking more shit.  

[00:49:51] Unknown:

So you bit more.  

[00:49:54] Unknown:

By the way, the peanut gallery is telling you to speak up.  

[00:50:00] Unknown:

Okay. I should just lean forward. Yeah. Just lean forward. Yeah.  

[00:50:07] Unknown:

Alright. Yeah. Anyone wants It's great.  

[00:50:10] Unknown:

Yeah. You know what? I'll have some. Let's let's get some whiskey here. I I had just had, I really enjoyed my cocktail.  

[00:50:17] Unknown:

You know? I watched it.   Incredible.  

[00:50:22] Unknown:

Amazing   cocktail artist. Oh,  

[00:50:26] Unknown:

man. I know it's Okay. Yeah. I'm done.   Gotta smash your cups.   What's more?  

[00:50:33] Unknown:

Doesn't happen. Man. Alright. Fine. Fine. You're fine. You don't have to drink it. Alright. Okay. Great. That's what they'll reset. The stream. Tune back in in a second.   Experiencing some technical difficulties here at dispatch.   I mean  

[00:50:49] Unknown:

I know these are for sure. I'm saying What's up? Yeah. Yeah. Of course, man. Yeah. Those are sexy. I'm We're  

[00:51:01] Unknown:

for you. I know you asked for 1. Yeah. I'm a Suzette. Yeah. Yeah. I got them upstairs.   It is Make sure you grab some, stickers too. We got one sauce. No. I brought free gas. You're running everything. Say, hey, hey. Hey.   Yeah, guys. Just don't say your seed phrases out loud. I'm listening. Okay? Be careful. Anyways, all I need to point is.   Okay. Awesome. Thank you, Freaks, for standing by while we handle those technical difficulties.   We're gonna blame Pete. He left. He seems to leave the room because   he knew he knew it was his fault. So,   where do we stand right now? We were talking about Pete called the bottom.  

We're We have a stacking floor.   Stackers set the floor. Don't forget that. Do set the fucking floor.   Yeah. Good. What I what I think is, like, I mean,   if if we just keep stacking,   there's like, the sky's the limit. Right? Like, how can you stop that? We can't fail. Imagine shorting that.  

[00:52:02] Unknown:

Yeah. No. Everyone's selling, and then we're all picking we're all picking up from 30 k. Right? We're we're all buying. So we're set before.   Oh, yeah.  

[00:52:12] Unknown:

Yes. That is Wiz.   Yes. Yeah. So so, Phreeks, we can see the live chat. We have it up on TV up on the TV. So not only can we see it, but our our wonderful   in person audience here can can see it as well. Yeah. You guys Talk about Taleb. Fraud. Many people here. Right. So we have Taleb   speaking at the BSV   shit. Right? I don't really think that's I mean, he can go fuck himself. And Nouriel's Nouriel's there too.  

[00:52:40] Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is he blocked?   He unblocked me. He has me blocked. So he retweeted me, saying I put Bitcoin as a intelligence test. Kind of failed. He retweeted   me and insulting me.   And so naturally, I I said, well, come on. Debate me.   And then he just insulted me again.   I should know my place and some other shit. I was like,   I'm like, I'm a slam dunk if you, if you wanna debate. If you think you're so smart, go forever. You know, it's just another fucking idiot.  

[00:53:11] Unknown:

So, yeah, should know I mean, fuck him. I mean, that that was, like it's amazing how quick that turned. Right? Yeah. Yeah. He was a He ironed do you guys not ironing me? He wrote the forward to the fucking pinpoint standard. Standard.  

[00:53:24] Unknown:

Well, no. It's not just that. He is anti fragile. He's fragile as fuck. I think I think it's what got me blocked. I think I made an anti fragile turn. And then if you see a fraud, don't say fraud, you're a fraud, and he's going to a fucking BSP conference.  

[00:53:37] Unknown:

He's literally on the same page as, like, a I  

[00:53:41] Unknown:

I gave it, like, over 2 months stop until he has a lawsuit with Craig Wright and all that. I mean, for sure, they'll go up in in a lawsuit. Like, these guys sue every everybody they work with ever. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're suing the p The PSP devs. Yeah. So they're suing anyone. Yeah. Would you I could like, 2 months until they The PSP devs is like a fake. Right?   I I don't think so. I don't think so. It's just to, like,  

[00:54:07] Unknown:

cover their their pursuing everyone kinda thing. I have no idea, actually.   Who knows? I mean, anyways, so working on over there. I don't even like the the Dogecoin devs. Like, what what innovation's happening over there? I mean, yeah, I don't want to talk about it. Do we have a better topic to talk about?   What else are you,   how about the conference? We could talk about the conference. Hell, yeah. You?   I mean, a bunch of the guys here are gonna be participating in the open source dome,   which I'm pretty excited about. What's the open source dome? The open source dome is   right next to the massive outdoor bar.  

That's why I'm negative. And, it's a fucking stacked lineup, and it's open source projects only.   95%   of them are are are are true false projects, free open source projects.   Drama. Oh, man. A couple of them have restrictive licenses.   But I think,   I think it's important that, we have these open discussions. So I'm I'm looking forward to,   drink fueled in person, open source dome license debates,   which, you know, sounds like a lot of fun to me. We're gonna have an open source boxing match too. It's gonna be like a UFC way in, you know, and they're just gonna we're gonna have we're gonna have 2 devs just on the stage just talking shit to each other.   So I'm pretty excited about that.  

Wiz, you got a dough ass booth,   for for mempool space and,   for mempool and bisque. Yeah. The the conference organizers are really,  

[00:55:39] Unknown:

amazing. They gave us, like, the best booth, and we,   split it 5050 for Biscuit and mempool.   So we're gonna be giving away some really cool t shirts,   as thank you gifts to our sponsors. So if you donate any amount to the mempool site, you can get a really cool set of t shirts, bisque at mempool.   And,  

[00:55:59] Unknown:

stop by and say hi and and meet everyone. We'll be there. We're gonna have Ron Paul open the fucking conference. That's what Yeah. Let's go.   I feel like Miami is just it feels   this feels like a lot of energy here right now. Yeah. A lot of energy.  

[00:56:14] Unknown:

I feel the energy shifting. I feel like we're at 2 100 k.  

[00:56:18] Unknown:

You feeling it? Yeah. That's the first step. Yeah?   Everything under 200 k is a gift. Did you need US dollars or, like, Japanese yen? 200 k   cents. Right. I'll I mean, I'll I'll try and save face. No. I meant dollars, obviously.   Yeah. So, I mean,   anything else you guys specifically excited about with this week? We have beef steak. Beef steak. Beef steak tomorrow.   Beef steak man himself is staying at the Citadel. I think he's shopping for beef steak still. Yeah. I was hoping we'd have a month for the episode, but, he's a busy guy. He's trying to make sure this is the best event. If we keep filibuster   filibustering   then, you know, as as if we can make this if we make this extend, then maybe he'll join us for the the tail end. They'll just walk in with a bunch of meat That's right.  

Just join the conversation. We just sandbag and drag them on the couch. It could happen. It could happen. It could happen. Let's stay in the interview with Jack Dorsey, which I think is gonna be fun. That that's probably gonna be the best target of conference. Yeah. Pretty good match up. On the first day?   Don't know. Yes. Don't know. Yeah. I think that's a really good match up.  

[00:57:20] Unknown:

At nude. I think it's a big things from Jack Woolsey. Yeah. And and and and on that topic, like, HRF just donated, like, 2 100 k. 2 a new 10 k. Yep. Unbelievable.  

[00:57:30] Unknown:

What's really interesting is the smallest grant they provided was a 10 k grant,   And they provided this guy and Open Arms and Fontaine,   fully noted,   1 Bitcoin each grant at 10 k.   And that was, like, a big deal at the time. That was, you know,   what was it, 8 months ago or something like that, 7 months ago.   Their grant   6 x them in half. Yeah. Yeah. It was great though.   That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you HRF. Thank you, Gladstein. Sucks that you sold it now.   Put a lot into the bounties, but, hey, we got some things done. I'm really happy about how that turned out. So We have big point in books asking about any huge announcements of the conference.   Literally, the the big trend with conferences in general is that if anyone has any kind of announcement to make,   over the last couple of months, they hold it for the conference usually,   so they can try and get that extra publicity boost.  

So, yeah, there there is a shit ton of of   of announcements   that I've heard of already, and I expect even more to happen.   I mean, I they're all very bullish,   but I'm just a fucking broken record at this point.   So,   so that that's always exciting. I think we have we have Zabo who's gonna be speaking. He hasn't you know, he's been pretty quiet this year. I don't know. I maybe got censored on Twitter or not, but I haven't really heard from him lately. So He's definitely shadowed Ben. You know what I mean? Yeah.   So I'm, like, pretty excited for the Zaybo talk. What about the other events? Like, other than the actual conference, like, what about the satellite events and dinners and things like The, there's a there's a pleb party Yeah. On Thursday. A flat dinner. Right? Yeah. It was a Thursday. Club night. Club night. Club night. I can yeah. I can put into the whale night. Whale night versus club night. It's the same time as yours, I think.  



[00:59:16] Unknown:

But I don't think that's why I didn't get it.  

[00:59:20] Unknown:

Well, no. They have a anyone can buy a ticket. They have a BTC pay service set up.   I was like, I'm getting a good deal. I'm a lock it in now.   Yeah. We just got that one completely wrong.  

[00:59:39] Unknown:

So it might might surprise you, but I've never  

[00:59:43] Unknown:

considered about SaaS providing a transaction. Oh, yeah. That's a good that's a good  

[00:59:47] Unknown:

so so you just press send on the on the app? Just press some I mean, one of my wallets has, like, a low medium. Yeah. What do you click?  

[00:59:54] Unknown:

Almost always high. You almost always took the high fee. I want it now. I'm never doing, like, transactions of less than, like, $1,000, really.  

[01:00:01] Unknown:

Not because I'm a borrower. It's just that you have to say. No. It's usually paying someone through work who get it paid. Don't buy something for, like, $60 with Bitcoin.   So I just hit send, and,   and and it won't surprise you that the whole idea of where I'll satisfy the buyers. Well, how how many fucking bites are my how how am I meant to know this? And they can't I just can't be bothered. It's just me, it's a waste of time. It's my thing says it'll be $10 or $30 to just go. I just don't care.   I would imagine   in, in in my world, the kind of people I I talk to at Bitcoin, they're probably very similar. Well, the blue wallet team was talking about this the other day because it's kinda interesting to me.  



[01:00:42] Unknown:

Like, who is doing   the medium?  

[01:00:47] Unknown:

Like, who is who is like, oh, I'm willing to wait 8 hours or 9 hours for a confirmation. I feel like it's there's like a there's very much an extreme. So the way I look at it is it I I like all of us that show low, medium, or high, but then also give you the actual number of SaaS provided. So I will select medium. If I look on and   I will see,   okay. Medium is is gonna be, like, success or whatever, and and I'll select medium then. But you're exactly right. I think either people are gonna select high or people are gonna select low.   I know,   for working in the industry, it's it's a pain in the ass in the custodial sense of allowing these multiple structures because then if you allow low, then it's like you're gonna get so many customer support issues of people saying, okay. Well, my transaction didn't go through. What can I really do about this? I'm like, well, we paid for a low fee and then so what you know, we'll have to build in support to be able to allow user of bumping. There's all kinds of, like, issues things. So, like, I I kind of agree. Like, high is the option. Look on mempool, that space, and I see that's that's gonna be good enough. I'll select high or medium or whatever. But low low is just a liability,  

[01:01:53] Unknown:

I think Yeah. For customer support issues. Like, it's just a pain in the Okay. Question, Pete. How high do the fees have to be for you to actually care?  

[01:02:01] Unknown:

Care about what?  

[01:02:03] Unknown:

Setting the the fees, you know, and not not getting it in instantly. How high a fee  

[01:02:09] Unknown:

is your wallet gonna have to be flashing for you? I just I get depends on the transaction from sending a $100   $100 fees.  

[01:02:16] Unknown:

Gotcha. Does it matter if I was sending a 1,000  

[01:02:20] Unknown:

and it was $100 fee, I'm gonna go, okay. I'll just send you a $1,000 and get rid of this.  

[01:02:24] Unknown:

I can pay that or something. What about lightning then? I mean, will you ever will will you ever send that 1,000 over lightning instead? Do you ever use lightning? Yeah. I did. I was using it in El Salvador.   Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you're using lots of cups of coffee with them. Yeah. That's awesome. I   like to sell those coffees with it.  

[01:02:40] Unknown:

And it was really cool, actually. It wasn't just,   it wasn't just because I,   I wanted to just use my wallet to the novelty of,   but down there, I I had blue wallet. It was actually because I ran out of dollars, and then I was off saying there isn't a cash machine. So I ran out of dollars. I was like, okay. I'll just use this, and, actually, I don't even need to think about going to a cash machine.   The only time I had to, I had to get some money at   the last day for my flight, so we went to the next town. But now I was spending,   Bitcoin the whole time there. I mean, I say the whole time. I probably did, like, 5 to 10 transactions.  

Mhmm. But,   and that's because most of the time Jack was using Stripe, so I didn't have to. But, yeah, it was great. It was awesome. It was brilliant. Just every time it worked. I mean, I don't know if it's because I've seen blue wallet and it's custodial. It is custodial. Yeah. Yeah. But every time it just works. It was instant. It was great. It was awesome. It was awesome to leak SaaS there. It was awesome to use Lightning.   But at the same time, my unit account is still dollars.   So I want the price in dollars, and I'll just send you the stats. And I have no idea what the transaction fee by SKUs. So they were showing you the price in dollars I can't imagine. When you got the coffee. They don't have the price in the stats   on the wall. Right. What is the price in the dollar? The price so the so the price of coffee was, I don't know, $2.  



[01:03:52] Unknown:

Or was it pesos? Is there No. No. They're they're dollarized.  

[01:03:55] Unknown:

So say say they're showing in dollars, and then it just they slash it up on my phone, and I know I'm spending $2 on Bitcoin. Right. But I always I don't use You don't think in Sats? No. I don't because it's too volatile. It reminds me of when I was in Venezuela with you and it's a restaurant on the menu, all the prices with stickers because I could constantly have to repress.   It's quite the same. It's like, I'm always up to repress it. I just I can't fuck.   Sorry. Sorry.   I'm a.  

[01:04:22] Unknown:

No. No. You can swear up this shit. I'm the same way. I'm No. I'm apologizing to swear it. I'm apologizing to not be in the a Not pricing things in SaaS in here. I said SaaS are in your unit account. Company. If SaaS are in your unit account, you're sure of Bitcoin. Now now the merchants down there, were were they were there a few of them that were at least preferring you paid Oh, they wanted Bitcoin. They all wanted Bitcoin. Wanted Bitcoin. Yeah. But they were in a bull run. We could put that down, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.  

[01:04:46] Unknown:

So I I had my vaccine too, and she was, I went to that and she got she said, will you pay Bitcoin? Mhmm.   Oh. No.   That   was when our dollars in the staff. I know they all wanted Bitcoin. And and the thing was is it's 18 months between the first time I went and now. Anyway,   everywhere it says pay the Bitcoin.  

[01:05:03] Unknown:

Everywhere. It's it's crazy. Are those shops using their own, like,   self custody wallets, or are they all using custodial wallets?  

[01:05:11] Unknown:

No. So it's like using custodial. It's actually really cool because  

[01:05:14] Unknown:

they're using their own custodial wallet. So it's an Elzante   custodial wallet that's that's being run by Bitcoin Beach, which is kind of a cool model that I feel like Bitcoiners don't really,   address that often. Yeah. So in L&D Hub that someone   Essentially.   I mean, they have an app they have an app that anyone can download. We could use the custodial well if we want to. Mhmm. But it's run by by a team that's in El Salvador. Oh, it's a dedicated app and not just using the It's a Bitcoin Beach custodial wallet. Okay. Cool. And that way, they have really good UX, but they don't have to trust,  

[01:05:50] Unknown:

you know, a foreign company with it. But the the really cool thing about it is it's almost all the places accepting Bitcoin in the app.   And what you can see now is, like, it's not just El Monte. There's a few places up the coast, and there's 2 or 3 places in San Salvador now except in it. And you can just see that seed is growing. It's it's really interesting.   So how long are you down there for? We should just do a big shout out to Michael Peterson who literally   built that whole thing himself and dragged people down there to help it. It's it is   the the Bitcoin dream everyone talks about. They're actually doing invest.  



[01:06:24] Unknown:

Incredible. Hey. Shout out to that. Yeah. We should have done that. And we have I would love to. We have Deloitte money   who is I'm I'm I'm blanking on the the lead the lead maintainer of it. That's the that's the custodial wallet.   He'll be presenting in the at   at Bitcoin 2021. So I'm pretty excited to meet him there.   And he's open sourcing the wallet. So that's what he he's open sourcing it before he walks into the.  

[01:06:51] Unknown:

I think it's the important topic and and and and, Peter, you were just down there. I I I wanted to ask, what's the number one thing you've learned   since being down there and seeing this whole circular economy of people using that, especially people that need to use it   in that iconic case? Oh,  

[01:07:07] Unknown:

that's a good question. Not one thing I learned.   Education is just key. Yeah. Educate I think   it's all well and good going somewhere,   like,   I was on saying teaching people about Bitcoin, but I actually think gotta teach them about volatility   because what we saw over last week would have fucked some people if they'd held everything in Bitcoin. Like, absolutely fucked them. Yeah. But they are teaching you about volatility. They are teaching them that they need to sell some of their Bitcoin back into dollars and hold some savings and treat the savings as a long term.  

[01:07:40] Unknown:

But do they have access to do that?   Yeah.  

[01:07:43] Unknown:

What they're actually what most people are doing now, they've got the Bitcoin Beach app for their Bitcoin, and they've got the Strike app for their dollars, and then move it between the 2, I think.  

[01:07:53] Unknown:

Interesting. But Strike doesn't have banking relationships down there, I thought. Yeah. I don't know the So so they're not going back to the local currency. They're putting it into dollars on Oh, Salvador doesn't have a local currency. Whatever you said The local currency is the dollar.  

[01:08:07] Unknown:

They're a dollarized country. Okay. Gotcha. So everyone uses the dollar. But the important thing about that is   as,   Biden prints another whatever, $6,000,000,000,000 Right. They don't see that. They don't they see that. They don't get stimulus checks. Yeah. They get funds. Soft. Yeah.   Also, the the really interesting thing is what Jack's actually doing with strike.   He's completely changing remittance there,   where before you have to go to get a bus or go to Western Union,   you know, you get a haircut with a price, you just sat he sat on your couch. You sent dollars   from the US   via strike.  

There's no haircut. It's instant, and it's free. You don't have to travel,   you can also send small amounts of it. So before, there's, like, a minimum fee. So if you send it $50, you might be losing a large chunk. Yeah. But now you can send $5. The kid can say, I need $5 for x and they can get it. It's really, really amazing. Well, that's why you mentioned, like, the volatility  

[01:09:02] Unknown:

as being a concern.   I mean, they're dollarized,   but, I mean, if you're in Venezuela, right, they're already used to having   not even volatility. I mean, it's just down. Just the the currency just loses value. Right?  

[01:09:16] Unknown:

Sorry. Just to answer your question, the most important thing I learned is actually going to these places and seeing see actually seeing it and understanding it. But my my point is is, like, the fee the fees are almost  

[01:09:29] Unknown:

that can fuck them even more. Right? Like, if that's why I think lightning is so important. Right? Because if they're hitting the chain and all of a sudden,   you know,   a difficulty adjustment goes goes up double digits and then we have a massive mempool and they need to, you know, buy food to eat,   and they have to pay a huge on chain fee, they can't just click the high fee button. Right? They're all using lightning. Yeah. They have to because They're all using lightning. Yeah. Mhmm. Because the small amounts even even in 1 sec per byte fee market,   at current Bitcoin prices, you know, that's it's eating up a significant amount.  



[01:10:03] Unknown:

But are they all using that custodial liking? Like, nobody's running their own Raspberry Pi kind of thing. I mean, I don't think so. The places I went, I don't think so. And and one of the other things, like, some people are accepting   Bitcoin   because there's people wanting to pay it, and it's just a form of money to them. They're not really into it. Like, one of the pupusas. Right. There's other people who, like, naturally with Bitcoin have spent the time to understand it. Guy in a coffee shop, he gets it. He just gets it. He wants your Bitcoin.   So it's it's like everywhere you go. There's a range of people who are really into it, a range long Just using it as a payment method. Yeah.  



[01:10:38] Unknown:

Cool. Nice. It's really awesome to hear. It would be a shame, though, like, if one of those custodial apps,   you know, got hacked or had some kinda issues. Right? That's the real concern is that, okay. Great. Everyone's using  

[01:10:50] Unknown:

Bitcoin, but are they really if they're just using this custodial app? Well, but that's what I think what's great about Bitcoin Beach is if they are do doing the custodial themselves and they're going to the uncle Jim model Right. Is at least someone that hold accountable, and you can actually go visit them and and you don't have, you know, any issue with. So I love the uncle Jim model and being able to onboard your friends or even a whole entire region.  

[01:11:13] Unknown:

So I I like that approach as opposed to, like, a custodial in some other country that you really don't have any recourse. There's no accountability there. Exactly. We'll see if you aren't gonna be running lightning notes. Right. Is that Yeah. For sure. I think eventually when it's just an app on your phone, then they can. Yes. Of course. That's right. But they're not gonna like, the Raspberry Pi is is, like, kinda like a stepping stone. Right?  

[01:11:35] Unknown:

Yeah. Even so, even if you do have a Nutrien, I know there's still the challenges of liquidity. Like, this is, like, still a very difficult problem that we're working through.  

[01:11:44] Unknown:

So  

[01:11:44] Unknown:

I think it's a little more complicated than just the availability of the software. I think the important thing is that people are starting to use LiveVean.   Because everyone begin with, like, it's at least a stepping stone. I think that is really the stepping stone as opposed to running your own. Yeah. And the and the fact that if they do want to go and run their own node, that one day they could say, okay. I'll just generate an invoice, and I'm out of the system in, like, you know, a second way. So that's what's really important, having the option to exit.  

[01:12:13] Unknown:

2nd. Well, they're getting the inflation resistant properties of Pickling, but they're not getting the seizure resistance properties   Right?   That's the risk or the remain remaining risk. So   yeah. That's kinda how the Internet started too, like, with ISPs,   in all these,   regional places,   like, the first ISP to start in that little town, then everyone's just connecting to their servers, and that's how they connect to the Internet. And then soon, you know,   there's huge wireless telecoms where everyone has the Internet, but we're not there yet. Right?   It'll be interesting to see how the lightning model develops.  

Yeah. Absolutely.  

[01:12:50] Unknown:

Yeah. I think right now, you just have to get people used to   the, like, the the muscle memory or, like, just being able to, like, pay for things using   Bitcoin,  

[01:13:00] Unknown:

you know, using lightning. Yeah. Yeah. Just like being able to Yeah. Recognize the Lightning invoice flow. Like, this is a Lightning invoice, and I could scan it, pull it up on my phone Yeah. And pay it out. So, yeah, that's a huge step in itself. Another technology project. Another thing just to add to your question Yeah. I think,  

[01:13:17] Unknown:

kind of like as a wider one, so I've traveled a lot with this Mhmm. Is that,   how people use Bitcoin or what they need for Bitcoin is really geography dependent.   Really geography dependent. And I think sometimes we think of Bitcoin as,   as fairly comfortable westerners who   don't always think about, like, the scenarios that people are living in in places like this. So, for example, some people live in a one room shack. Yeah. Yeah. If they're gonna they're gonna back up the private   keys, they're not gonna set up a multi so you can have 1 in a safety deposit here. You know? There's scenarios like that you have to think sound.  

[01:13:52] Unknown:

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the thing is that   if you wanna be the   ultimate sovereign Bitcoiner, there's a cost to that, and and we can't be shaming people for not going through all the lengths of not having their own nodes or or not, like, custodying it themselves. Like, there's levels to it. And what's important is that they have a path to get there and to be able to do it, that we keep it, you know, with within reach.   You know, there's always gonna be people outside of that threshold that just can't do it, and and we gotta don't even know to do it. That's the thing. Like, people don't know. Again, back to the education thing. That's a huge part of it as well. Don't know. Yeah.  

[01:14:29] Unknown:

Where do they get their education now? Is it just peer to peer, like, working off? The Bitcoin Beach now has this, place called Hope House, this whole building. They have teachers in there. They do educational sessions. They spend time with them. They they and, also, the people are spreading their knowledge to each other as well.   So it's it's it's really cool. I mean, I'm saying to Michael, we should organize an event. Let's try and get a load of this down there because it's just  

[01:14:52] Unknown:

really interesting to see. It's worth the journey. That's sweet. Should we brush up on our Spanish and do a workshop down there? I really wanna go. I mean, it's super inspirational.  

[01:15:01] Unknown:

You're fucking killing it. Lots of credit. How about, though, in your opinion?  

[01:15:05] Unknown:

Good question.   Well, you can always donate to the project. I mean, the project is charity based. It it you know, Michael's a a missionary, and he went down there to help people.   Yeah. The money is originally to get to give to kids, to get them out of gangs, to give them jobs, cleaning up the streets,   and, lifeguarding   for the, surfers, etcetera.   I mean, it real it relies on a certain amount of money going in to to kind of kick start, and then people like us going down there and leaving SaaS. I mean, I probably left a $100 in SaaS, but that then circulates around the system.   The more people go down that, the better.  

I think   I don't know what what else more you can do.   Yeah. I mean, people like you you guys are the smartest guys in the room usually. Reach out to Michael and say, how can we help? Because Tell you. He he might have a whole bunch of things that   he asked me to help with publicity because that's the one thing I do. He might turn around to you and say, I need tech support. I need help with you know, we got a problem with our wallet. I don't know, but I can connect him with any of you. But so, specifically, they have they had this, you know, world class surfer, Katie Diaz, who just recently tragically died in,  

[01:16:14] Unknown:

lightning incident while she was surfing in a storm.   So they're raising a bunch of money right now to do a Olympic   surfing facility for the El Salvador team, and they're raising that all in Bitcoin. So that's katydiazsurf.com.   So consider doing it to that in Bitcoin. What? They already hit the target. They hit the target. Yeah. Big shout out to Miles Souter who totally led that. True. Let's fucking go. Shit. Yeah. Miles is here too. I'm looking forward to   seeing him while we're here.   I love that dude.   The other thing about lightning   is, you know, the channels are kind of confusing to people and that's what's nice about the custodial wallet is that you don't have to deal with the channel management. Mhmm. But the fact that you don't have to deal with confirmations, which goes back to our previous discussion, is like a really, really benefit to new corners and fresh corners. Because   this idea   of understanding how confirmations work is like it's a real it's not a natural   it's not a natural thing,  

[01:17:15] Unknown:

for people to comprehend. Like, I mean, you could tell them, oh, well, you know, like, your credit card doesn't settle for blah blah blah months. Like, they don't give a shit. You know? To them, like, when they pay, it's done. That's all behind the scenes. You know? Right. Exactly. Experiencing the effects of that firsthand. Yeah. The businesses, I mean, it's coming from a historical that deals with Fiat. Like, it's a fucking pain. Yeah. It's coming in. Having to deal with this  

[01:17:40] Unknown:

this currency that settles in, like, 6 blocks. Right? And and and onboarding people on currencies that may not even settle for, like, 365 days. Right? I mean, technically, you can reverse transactions   first. So and then got the amount of time. So, like, from a business standpoint, it's it's a kind of a pain in the ass. And then from, like, exchanges and custodials and deal with Fiottis, it's terrible. But on the Bitcoin side, it's amazing. I mean, that's one of the things I loved   about beginning my journey through, like, Lightning Development is that   incident. Like I said, you know, I I I get an invoice. I get a receipt, and boom, it's done. I don't ever have to worry about remittances. I don't ever have to worry about the first transactions   It's done. It's a 10 x improvement. It's amazing.  



[01:18:24] Unknown:

Can we, fit another dude on this couch?  

[01:18:26] Unknown:

Yeah. We got an owl. No. No. Can we fit another dude on this couch? We got an  

[01:18:30] Unknown:

owl.  

[01:18:31] Unknown:

Owl trying to gender shame us up here. I know. And then we also have, a Satoshi justice warrior over here. We have a   a a very friendly freak there, Sam, cucking for custodial while it's in the chat.   I wanna be absolutely clear. I mean, obviously, not your keys, not your coins.   I think   that one of the cool parts about lightning is this idea of interoperable custodial wallets, and I've talked about this a lot on dispatch in the past. Now the the concern is I don't think Blue Wallet and Wallet of the Satoshi   and other first world large mainstream custodial wallets will last. They never do. Sure. They always get forced to add KYC, and the second they add KYC,   they're fucking done.  

I mean, we saw that happen with bottle pay. Like, it's it's it's it's a it's a story as old as Bitcoin. It's been happening through since the beginning of fucking Bitcoin.   The the   the thing is though, what's really cool about Bitcoin Beach is I could see   this, like, kind of extrapolated uncle Jim type of model with small towns.   That's a lot harder for, you know, regulators.   Basically, the reason we don't have all these different custodial wallets competing with each other is because of regulators. And it feels like,   if you have, like, a small town in El Salvador using a custodial wallet, that's way different than blue wallets servicing millions of customers,   presumably in the future. Right?  

And I I feel like there's a strong distinction there.  

[01:19:53] Unknown:

Well, there's some trade offs. Right? Like, you can use,   Phoenix Wallet, which has a kind of channel opening service. Right? So you get that,   kind of custodial   or self custody   security,   what they they give you the liquidity. Right? And there's other wallets,   whether it's like Breeze or or or a number of others that do similar things. So maybe that's the the Goldilocks level of,   you know, smooth user experience, but still,   some kind of self custody.  

[01:20:24] Unknown:

I think the,   the El Salvador model works well. You just use the Sure. This is how it works. When you say Breeze and Phoenix and Blue. Like, you know, I like, why? And I download them all. What's different?   What this one does? Actually, you know, most of the time, I'm just kind of like,   you know, I think I think there's, like, a circle of people who work on Bitcoin, a code stuff, who understand this stuff, and it all comes natural to you. And then there's a circle of people on the outside of my house, and they they buy them Coinbase or they send to a wallet. Something they don't realize it fucked up their KYC event. Have I? So,   not really I don't know what the point I'm trying to make is I mean, people people still use a Cash App demo, all these other Yeah. Yeah. Stupid. I I think I think that Matt's gonna hate you saying this. We argue about this every New Year. But,   I think   the effort required to get perfect privacy is   is beyond   99.9   I don't want perfect privacy. I just want not horrible privacy. Yeah. But but but, also, I think I think a lot of people just, like they've got Facebook. Yeah. They use Google.  

They they just accept that they're in a world where, like, I feel like you're on the same page as,  

[01:21:35] Unknown:

Bitcoin influencer,   I'm trying to see.  

[01:21:44] Unknown:

But so I just think some people like that, and and and they kind of accepted it. I think some people like Matt   are in it for a whole bunch   of reasons that, you know,   the the the noninflation, the privacy, blah blah blah. I think some people are just in it. But if you have information to Imessage  

[01:22:03] Unknown:

Yeah. I'll be using Imessage. So Imessage is encrypted.  

[01:22:06] Unknown:

Okay. Right? But you don't use it for encryption.   Right?   You've you've you've you've gotten a product that is has a great UX that's easy for you to use and is significantly better than if you sent a plain text message.   Did right? I don't know how to do it. Exactly.   That's what I want for Bitcoin. What I'm saying Like, what I want for Bitcoin is I don't want the average person to to be thinking that they need to be more private.   I mean, I hope that they do, but I I'm not I'm not expecting that. What I want is   wallet teams and service providers   to   care about  

[01:22:45] Unknown:

privacy best practices when they're building these projects. Right? I mean, I think what Apple is doing is interesting. They're making   they're they're bringing up, privacy to to to   a lot of what they've built, they're able to really think about it. I mean, the the like, the big little sick feature now you can sign up to, an app an app with Apple and just says hide your email address. Things like that make it super easy for people.  

[01:23:10] Unknown:

I just think, yeah, it has to be baked in. I mean, they they have the best UX people on the fucking planet. Yeah. You know? I mean, we'll get there, but it's it's gonna be a slog.  

[01:23:20] Unknown:

I think we're starting to see it. I know, like and I just came out with that whole, like, privacy lightning on deployment. Moon Vault was, like, a great examples of it it kind of provides the same UX of, like, Moon or or the side of Phoenix or the Breeze provides, but it has a lot of privacy,   baked into it, which which I love. It it could always be more than there's,   you know, even Ben today when you were talking about, like, you know, you know, the examples of trying to better than, like, the privacy space. But I think I think you're exactly right, is that we can try to bake it in from the very start   and and to have that great user experience that the user doesn't even need to worry about, obviously, because   the the application is it it's it's it's making sure that users are the best protected as it can be. So that way, when censorship   resistance fees would be a thing, it's already baked  

[01:24:07] Unknown:

in. Right. And, like, part of it is, like so I used Imessage as an example,   but they're using,   like, their own, like, proprietary encryption that's, like, kind of questionable in security. They're they're they're   they're backing up all of their,   messages to their cloud and not unscripting them end to end in the cloud. So if if you have the default setup, then that's like a backdoor into all those conversations.   But it's obviously a clear step in the right direction, and I think   that that shows you where   you you kinda need the hard course to keep those companies honest even if the average user doesn't really care about it. Right? You need the hard course. We just got mister beast take just walked in through.  

You need them to keep keep them honest. Right? Otherwise, they'll just   default to   they just won't be honest. Right? Like, if you don't have hard course keeping them honest, they're just gonna fucking pretend they're they're private when they're not as private as they could be.  

[01:25:10] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[01:25:12] Unknown:

But I think Peter's right. Like, not everyone cares about privacy. Right? No one cares about privacy. The overall that's not that's not, like, a profound point. No. I don't. Like the is that the case, though? I think I think people care about it. You ask them if you want privacy or not. They want it, But the their ability to achieve it is really hard. So you can go and read lots   explanation. It's like, fuck. How do I live my life? Yeah. You know, how how it's given us. So it's and I That's a straw man.  

[01:25:40] Unknown:

Well, but I think I think the higher priority is to have that savings mechanism and and their their dollars deflating, and they need to have the savings mechanism. So if you have to sacrifice a little bit of privacy for a better,  

[01:25:52] Unknown:

living, then then what what do you you know? I just think there's different tiers of user and different categories of user. Yeah.   And and and   yep. You you or me included, this is our job. Right? We do this all day every day so we can spend all day talking to the smartest people,   reading their articles, listening to podcasts, watching videos.   You know?   And if you're working on it, you know, someone like yourself, I mean, you're you're deep in the weeds of this stuff. Now if we're thinking of the normal normal person, they've got a different job that they're doing all day every day, which they're having conversations about. Maybe they've got an hour or 2 a day to read an article or listen to a podcast. There's sometimes not everyone has have some will   before people start shouting the some will spend the time. Mhmm. I just think the vast majority   aren't going to. They're going to come into Bitcoin for gains.  

Some, a percentage will spend a lot of time going down the rabbit hole running those, etcetera, etcetera. But some will just come in for the games. They'll buy an exchange, they maybe will buy a hard, blah, blah, and that's as far as they're gonna go.  

[01:26:56] Unknown:

Well, it's it's kind of, all all of these security privacy things are similar. Right? If I, if I chain you to the boat and I whip you and I say you gotta whip you gotta row the boat, you know that you're a slave. Right?   But if I give you if I pay your salary in, fiat money and I can print out as much fiat money as I want, then maybe you don't realize that you're a slave. And,   if even if you live in a developed country   where you're getting paid like USD and you think, oh, the inflation is not so bad, well, then the IRS subpoenas   Coinbase or any of these KYC things   and charges you taxes. Right? So there's like you said, it's like different tiers of, different threat models maybe is the right word for Privacy is a part of the conversation in those houses. Right. Because they're all inflating so bad. Everybody is getting a problem. So who cares about privacy because my fiat money is gonna lose, like, half of the part of the conversation in Venezuela or Iran or  

[01:27:50] Unknown:

Maybe. Or Russia. Yeah. Maybe. And then and then that's that point where geography changes your use of Bitcoin.   You're not it's wrong.   Certainly.  

[01:28:08] Unknown:

VPN is about censorship resistance. But if you live in, like, US, a VPN is like, oh, I just wanna watch a different Netflix   catalog from a different show. So it's it's like a, you know, access versus censorship. Right? And maybe some countries,   they're they don't sense with the Internet except for, like, Facebook and maybe a few apps. So for them, it's also like a a freedom or censorship resistant thing. But,   yeah, any of these, technologies like Tor, VPN, or Bitcoin even   or have totally different use cases for people that live in totally different, threat models. Yeah. It's a great point.  

[01:28:44] Unknown:

Well, I like mentioning, like, with with Iran specifically and and the like network is you with the like network, you got 2 choices. You could write an IP based node. You could write a tour based node. And if you're from Iran and you have an ironic IP, a lot of services and and things will will will will center you and then won't allow,   you to even access the Internet in their country. So, like, having that IP based node is is liability. So, like, that's why I think, like, especially for from Iran, like, privacy should be an important thing. And then if you're using lightning network, I definitely use Tor or or like a VPN because then you're just otherwise, you know, you could get censored in the future.  

[01:29:22] Unknown:

Well, I mean, I think a lot of this   is   just because of how early we are.   You know,   PayPal   doesn't   want to block users from spending on PayPal.   Like, if they if if it was up to PayPal,   you could send to anyone, anywhere   with limited KYC, as little friction as possible, as low fees as possible, have you completely captured in their system,   and and have very little restrictions. But they're forced and compelled to.   So enter Bitcoin. Right? And the whole value of Bitcoin   is that you're able to make the transactions   that you're not allowed to make otherwise.  

And   and that means that Bitcoin itself,   you're you're paying for this censorship resistance. You're paying for this ability to make this transaction   that will be more expensive   and more difficult   to make than a centralized option   that might censor you in that given transaction type.   And I think we just haven't   like, if if regulators just decide that they're gonna just completely change the way they've acted for the last   50 years, a 100 years,   then, you know, you don't need transactional privacy on Bitcoin. You don't need censorship resistance on Bitcoin at all. We don't even need Bitcoin. You could just use Tron or you could use some fucking   shitcoin. You could use USDC with, you know, Coinbase.  

And you can just transfer it to El Salvador or wherever you wanna transfer it. But what's gonna happen is regulators are gonna come in and they're gonna figure out how this stuff starts working, and they're gonna start hitting people. And it it's it's and and they're gonna make examples of people, and they're gonna block certain transaction types. And at that point, people are gonna have to step up or shut up.   Look who it is. We got beefsteak Josh in the house. Alright.   Make your ratio  

[01:31:20] Unknown:

even better.  

[01:31:25] Unknown:

How'd the shopping go?  

[01:31:27] Unknown:

We're good. Are you excited?  

[01:31:29] Unknown:

Are you excited? Very excited. I'm   nervous.   So this is the biggest beef steak you've run yet. Right? It is.   And what's the attendance roughly, can you say?  

[01:31:43] Unknown:

Probably 1 50 ish.  

[01:31:46] Unknown:

Nice. Legit. 150.   Yep.  

[01:31:49] Unknown:

So it's, like, almost £500   a piece.  

[01:31:55] Unknown:

So it's for real. It really is all you can eat. This would be my first beef steak. I'm excited. Too bad. You're for a treat, man, man. Be awesome. Yeah. Once you go to your first time, you're I stayed online. I was refreshing that button on your web page.  

[01:32:08] Unknown:

I never made a faster lightning payment in my life. It was great. It's amazing. Don't eat all day. Like, the the tickets to this event were more scarce than any other party in this whole week in my This is the party. This is the party. The best event of the week. I talked to Ty about, the fasting strategy. He's got it on the lock. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the key is, the day before, the night before, you wanna eat a good amount to expand your stomach. And then on the day of, you fast completely event.   Yeah. But somebody was talking about an ice fast. I thought there was No. Some people was talking about it. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, was that right? Right. So you know, Brad used ice to expand your stomach. Yeah. Right? That  

[01:32:49] Unknown:

I don't know. That that month has not tried   testing. You know?  

[01:32:55] Unknown:

Great. It's gonna be fun.  

[01:32:58] Unknown:

Cheers, John. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers, bud. Cheers on that.  

[01:33:02] Unknown:

So you had   did you have a lot of people pay with lightning for beef steak?  

[01:33:09] Unknown:

Way more than before.   I would say before, it was probably, like,   5%,   and that could be because   my my setup wasn't working very well. Like, I didn't have enough liquidity and whatever,   but probably almost 40%.  

[01:33:27] Unknown:

Wow. Not bad. A lot of And the tickets weren't cheap either. So, like, that's a that's it's a way a higher amount   for per transaction than people think a a lightning transaction would be. Right?   That's true. Tickets selling these were. Right. Because, like, I'm just gonna Yeah. That was a really high that was when I was like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really nothing off about this. How did you get enough about putting? Because that was my worry when I was there. I was like,  

[01:33:56] Unknown:

oh my god. You're refreshing the page. Like, what if I don't get enough? Like, what if you don't have enough to put it in? I'm fortunate to, like, know some people.  

[01:34:12] Unknown:

Use the high priority on chain fee. Like, it's worth it. Yeah. It's worth it. Right? Like, you're gonna do that anytime and hit high, like, peep. You know? It's for beefsteak. That's the time to do it.  

[01:34:24] Unknown:

By the way, the freaks, you gotta stop being so funny because we have all of our guests in the live audience watching your chats right now instead of us.  

[01:34:33] Unknown:

Well, then that's a real show. This is not just the sideshow.   What did I miss? We got into, like, a privacy discussion.   We tried Peter called the floor of 30 k. We're not gonna go below 30 k. Everything crashed right after. No. I said we might dip.   And let's see them. So I haven't even checked the price yet. You're supposed to do them. We're already at 200 k supposedly. Ty's feeling it. It works. Yeah. Then we don't that's how we check the price in the Citadel. We just we wake up in the morning to ask, we ask Ty how he's feeling. Yeah. Yeah. What what's feel like if he wants to. You know, the way I should I just go off on Bitcoin Tuesdays, and and Matt always has the price up there. But today, we don't have it. No price. So what do you think about that? Like, should I have the price up there when I do dispatch? Like That's the only time I see the price, honestly. Like, honestly speaking. Like, Bitcoin Tuesdays are the only days I see what price   Bitcoin is. I feel like people talk a big game about   me having the price up there and that I shouldn't because out of principle, like, the price doesn't matter short term.  

But at the same time, like,   people love seeing the little chart, you know. He was like What else are you gonna put up there? Well, we need, like, a new hybrid dashboard. We need, the prices. Right? Like, you've had them, but we also need mempool on there. Right? Yeah. That we need to have a lot of money. Wiz is trying to build, like, ultimate dispatch,  

[01:35:50] Unknown:

so we need this dashboard on mempool, which has the best price index and the best market price, which were like the two prices that he had on there anyway. But he says it wasn't flashy enough. He wants to wants to look like a Hey. Would you like to, like,  

[01:36:04] Unknown:

Clark Moody's dashboard? Yeah. Yeah. The problem would be nice to dashboard.   Marty's out is asking 200 k by conference. Say, yeah. You know, might as well. I agree. It's gonna happen.   Something else?   I I believe it I believe it when the day hits and and we're not at 200 k.   What else did we talk about today for Josh? Talked about El Zonte. Talked about the IndyCar. Yes. Talked about Mara, Benjamin, and that was good. Talked about transaction stuff. That. Yeah. Oh, wait. Can we take a moment to shit on billionaires right now?   I'm just saying. You wanna call them out by name too?  



[01:36:50] Unknown:

Yeah. Fuck. I'm a sailor. Oh,  

[01:36:52] Unknown:

here we go.  

[01:36:53] Unknown:

Stop being cucks.  

[01:36:55] Unknown:

I don't know. I I don't know. Yeah. I know. Okay. First of all, credit where credit is due. Ty was, you know, telling everyone to be cautious right out the gate with Michael Sailor  

[01:37:04] Unknown:

and Meaning, literally came on the scene and then, like, started speaking in memes. Like, what the fuck? Like, aren't you guys supposed to be, like, you know, hyper vigilant about all this stuff?   No. You're not. Right?   It's bad. It's bad. It's a bad plot. Yeah. I mean, look. If Michael Saylor was all about you know, if he knew   and if he was, like you know, if he understood midpoint and was in it for the right reasons,   you know what? He would be disappointed in all you cuffs and all you simps. Right? He'd be like, Mark,   why why aren't you suspicious of me, the fucking billionaire? Right? Exactly.  

So either way, you should be,  

[01:37:43] Unknown:

highly suspicious. So let's just talk about the reality of it. Right? It's like at a certain point, your net worth gets so high, you were just subject to higher scrutiny   from the state than the average person. Right? And the average millionaire or even, like, 10 millionaire, right, has much more freedom   than the average billionaire   in, you know, these big countries, these big states.  

[01:38:07] Unknown:

And, right from the beginning, he came on board and was basically saying that Bitcoin wasn't it shouldn't be meant for payments. Right? Like, he was this big store value kind of guy, and and that's that's you know, I use Bitcoin all the time. I spend it in place, of course. Right? But, yeah, he basically came on the scenes and was like, well, Bitcoin is not bad for payments. Like, we should be worrying about it, stored value, and other properties. And the fact that it's In his defense, like, everyone has opinions. Some will agree with him, some will disagree with him. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, also, in his defense, he has a bigger lens on him than everyone else right now. And he's in that position where if he slips up,  

[01:38:45] Unknown:

he goes out to a 1000000 people that are following him and everyone retweets it. He can't say anything without everyone seeing it.   I would the only thing I would say is that   he put himself now in a very difficult position. Yeah. You know, in in some ways, one of the challenges to him would be to say, actually,   have you become too big for what you're representing?   You know, has he become like   say, you know, like, appreciate this in the same way. Has he become like a de facto Satoshi, like the spokesperson of the big The voice of Bitcoin. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. Right? Yeah.  

[01:39:21] Unknown:

So you just had that podcast with with Dan Held about, like, Bitcoin has no heroes? No leaders. No leaders.   No leaders. Yeah. And is that some of the stuff that you've addressed with that? Because in some ways, you're exactly right. I mean, some people do look at Michael Sailor like a sort of leader in the space. I just did one with Eric Weinstein, and I tell you what he said was really interested in in that. He turned around and said, you all fucked up with Evon Musk. Harvey Weinstein?  

[01:39:45] Unknown:

Okay.  

[01:39:47] Unknown:

Yes.   Or Pito's there.   Sorry. There's not Pito's either one. Sexual   sort of thing. Whatever. But   he he said we all fucked up with Elon. He said you you you're the people that don't trust verified people, and you're leaving around celebrated. And look what he did. And, you know, not everyone's dead. I'm just saying, like, generally speaking Yeah. He was right. I mean, I did. Completely different.   Woo. That's loud. And then hold on. Yeah.   So but but he pumps the price. I feel like there's, like,  

[01:40:18] Unknown:

the line is blurred because Elon pumps the price, and I think we're happy the price is going up more than we're happy that Elon's flying.  

[01:40:26] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We're we're excited to see our games go up. Call up this intended. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. But they are different.  

[01:40:33] Unknown:

Right?   Like, I don't know. That's the end of my thought.  

[01:40:37] Unknown:

That's pretty profound.  

[01:40:42] Unknown:

We we all have different incentives at the end of the day. Right? I mean, the billionaires have different incentives than the billionaires that get into big one have different incentives. Right. Then that's flat. That's the fucking key. And I think, like, I've been  

[01:40:53] Unknown:

I think I've been pretty consistently   critical of Sailor and, like, the love that that is just adorned to him. I think people should be critical in general. I'm very glad that people are critical of me.   We have, you know, dispatch, like, we're literally just getting trolled in the live chat that's just broadcast to everyone. Yeah. But the simping for custodial walls is a is a key aspect  

[01:41:14] Unknown:

of the show. I like the picture. It's like I'm waiting for it. Yeah. What a coincidence. At the same time  

[01:41:19] Unknown:

At the same time, I think   that Sailor has been incredibly consistent.   And as far as, like, a billionaire compliance   pro type of person,   he's been a very strong advocate for Bitcoin. Like, there's so many worse things he could be doing. Matt, are you sick?   I'm   I everyone get your bingo boards out. There's some nuance here, Ty.   And   and I I I think I think that, you know, he has he he could be, like, look at what Portnoy is doing.   Look at what pump does sometimes with, like, his investments and stuff like that, and he intertwines it with all of the things. He's he, like, shills and boost podcast guests are. Look at Elon who's meeting with Dogecoin devs.   You know, look you have Roger Ver. You have fucking,   you know,   Voorhees.  

You know? Like, we have so many past rich leaders   Yeah. But there's nothing that have been  

[01:42:14] Unknown:

Then nothing compared to sailor. Because he's been a very consistent advocate is one of the reasons why he gets it. Which is the point. Right? Like, it's not if for instance, let's put on our, like, conspiracy theory hats and say that maybe this is part of a state sponsored attack, which, you know, is not beyond the pale. Like, we're all expecting that to happen at some point. Maybe, you know, like, it's a long game where it's like you have this guy sale, this charismatic guy, says all the right things, is a thought leader. Right? And he's, you know, he's put out there.  

[01:42:45] Unknown:

Right?   The comments are so good. It's not going down.   Plebs, I fucking love you. No one is above criticism.  

[01:42:57] Unknown:

Keep everyone honest. Well, doesn't that sound like a good you know, like, he builds up his, like,  

[01:43:03] Unknown:

rough how you would do it. Right. That's how you would do it. It's a long And then you we're gonna bring mine into America, land of the free. Interestingly. And then we're gonna transaction censor it. We're gonna we're gonna have a mining council. And we got this at first. Yeah. That big tweet where you got, like, 20,000 likes and, like, 5,000 retweets where it was, like, the perfect mobile wallet is one where you, like, KYC yourself, and you just lend your Bitcoin for USD, so then you just pay without a tax burden via the the USD. Well, yeah, this one tweet, like, a long time ago, which was like, oh, you know, like, it was basically, like, the gist of it was, like, render onto Caesar what it Caesar's or whatever.  

[01:43:37] Unknown:

Okay. Put your hand up. You never had a bad time with Bitcoin.  

[01:43:42] Unknown:

Oh, I have. Okay. So  

[01:43:44] Unknown:

I all have. You know? You thought it was a bad take. You had you had Yeah. Yeah. What what was it?  

[01:43:51] Unknown:

That's alright. Shitload.  

[01:43:52] Unknown:

And he's had some bad takes, but some make those out a lot of people. Yeah. But the things that I think about with him is who's under more pressure when their network with that the price ask? Is it someone who goes 6,000,000,000 to 3,000,000,000   who's raised a lot of money through their company,   who's got a board to answer to, who's got investors to answer to,   or somebody who has, I don't know, $1,000,000 of Bitcoin who's gonna find 1,000.   Who feels that burn more? I think he feels the pressure more. I think he certainly. But what if, like Okay. And this is defensive. This is saying, look. That's why we Yes. You you know, we have to we have to be on guard,   with with him as well. Right. The other thing is he you know, he's brilliant, as Matt says, a great advocate, but he is still very new to Bitcoin. He's very new. You know? And he says all the right things now. Sometimes Like, even in 2015,  

[01:44:40] Unknown:

he was a big mayor. Right? Like, he can't like, there's sweets out there where he was, like, bashing it. He didn't delete that tweet, though. Not yet. He did he deleted it? Or He didn't. Alright. And no. No. And and yeah. That that that's great. But Very low bar, but this press is I didn't delete it. And and it's good. Yeah. But I But what's the real threat? I mean, people anyone can say anything. Right? Like, what's the real threat? I think the 51% attack obviously would be if there's some kind of mining council that decides to They just need to disband that idea. Someone needs to resign Yeah. So everyone else does. They can do it without a council. Yeah. Absolutely. Look. It doesn't matter how angry people are. US miners,  

[01:45:17] Unknown:

they're gonna call themselves North American miners because it sounds better. US miners are going to have   a lot of closed doors conversations   in the next 10 years. Right. And it's up to us as sovereign Bitcoiners   to mitigate that threat without appealing to them to be  

[01:45:36] Unknown:

not that. Yeah. That that is obviously, they're gonna do that. Well, look. I mean, I I hear people on Twitter being like, oh, you know, it's fine if they have closed more meetings. People entitled it. Yes. However,   doesn't mean we have to like it. Right? Like, we need to kinda force their hand to be more transparent.   Otherwise, it's gonna make a it's you know, like, obviously, in the in the long run,   Bitcoin will succeed. But if we don't address these things, you know, nip them at the butt, it's gonna be a big headache in the future.   So I think it's fine that we, complain when, you know, things are about the way. The live chat's the best part of dispatch. It really is. Loving it.  



[01:46:15] Unknown:

Maybe the real solution is just for everyone to have a few miners at home, even if it's not profitable. Right? Just to, like, secure the the network. Well, I think it'll be more profitable. Right? Like, as especially, you know, if you're looking for KYC free corn. I mean, I'd be willing to, you know, pay 30%  

[01:46:32] Unknown:

Everything. So, like,   when  

[01:46:34] Unknown:

did you pay a 30% premium for just It's not 30%, though. It's like probably 300% Yeah. More. Right? Yeah. It's some it's more like a 100%. Well, there it's like right now, dude. That's crazy. Like the right   now. Well, like, right now, you can't get the equipment.   So that makes it extra expensive. Right? I thought But even when you do have the equipment Yeah. Even if you have for free.   Yes. Exactly. Are they running right now? No. What is going on? Well, someone someone was gonna buy them and they didn't. So now you have them? I don't know. Why aren't they plugged in yet?  

[01:47:04] Unknown:

They're in Don't tell.  

[01:47:06] Unknown:

We're on Dude, it's so competitive. The network's so big. If you don't have the electricity rate, then you're screwed. That's the biggest part of the whole equation. Yeah.   Anyone anyone who mined at their home   at a 40, 50% loss for the last   10 years has done fantastic.   That's true. If you have long enough inventory. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no idea they have a Bitcoin. If you could afford to eat the cost for that wall. You know. But you would have been better off just buying Bitcoin. Yeah. No. I'm I'm You'd be KYC though, and if you're McCormick about it, you just sent it to the same reused address. You don't care about privacy and sold back intact.  

[01:47:43] Unknown:

But this this preview This would be meaningless.  

[01:47:47] Unknown:

I use you as an adjective. This should be a compliment. That was a sweet sweet thing.   I would argue a little bit against different as hell because, I mean, they government very highly looks at electricity response. Right? But did you see what happened in Verdon? In in the in the British. Yeah. We It's the same way they go for weed. Yeah. It's a power usage. They they thought in the UK, they thought the specific monitor was actually, like, grown weed, and they actually went and raided the Right. But that was a fucking operation. Like, they had a lot. Like, I'm talking about, like, in your apartment, you have 1 or 2 a six that really pisses off your fucking girlfriend. You know? Like, there that is that is usually a good deal. Like, I I I don't think I think people over or underestimate, like, how good of a deal that is   excluding right now. Because right now,   it is crazy. You cannot get fucking equipment. Like, all the equipment is super expensive.  

It it to a degree that we've pretty much never seen in the post era. Like I mean, there's a general chip shortage. 2017   also saw, like, similar shortages. You got wrecked in 2017 on mining. Right?   You wanna is that a learning experience? Yep.  

[01:48:56] Unknown:

Bull market was going crazy, made loads of money.   Met a guy who was, like, doing mining. Said you wanna get into it. I was like, yeah.   Bought 70 s nines and 70 dragon mints. The s nines were, like, 2,000 a piece. They were going. I could've resold them on Amazon or eBay for 5,000 a piece. On mine, took out contract 18¢ and made a load of money in January. February, I broke even, and then I was fucked.   Absolutely fucked.   Whole thing cost me about half $1,000,000.  

[01:49:25] Unknown:

Holy shit, man. Yeah. Boom. But if you would have kept mining   for until now, it would have become profitable. Right? Yeah. But is this you know, at the time, you're like, I'm  

[01:49:36] Unknown:

burning because I was paying my bills in Bitcoin.  

[01:49:38] Unknown:

I'm burning a lot. Yeah. Not a lot of people can eat that loss for so long to make it. Yeah. And, you know, I wasn't thinking like that. That's why the stay humble part is the important sense. Right? So if we want you said the dot, right, Matt? Well, most of the liners like, if you have, like, 70 miners or a 100 miners, then it's kind of, like, doing a 100 x on in a way. Right? Whereas if you have, like, 1 or 2   where, say, the electric bill is a $100 a month, you don't really care. Like, you can just eat that cost. Was a 100 bucks a month. I understand. Yeah. Tens of 1,000 or something. Sure. Yeah. I understand. And that's what I mean. It's just like leverage. Right? If you have a 100 minors, like a 100 x. So if you just have one s nine in your house, in your closet or something,   that's the way.  



[01:50:17] Unknown:

I think that's the way because, I mean, we we all talk about running our nodes and it's important if especially if you're receiving payments. Right? It's important to run your own notes   to verify that you received the payment. Right? And to verify your balance. But, I mean, I don't know. I I think especially if if we can get things like,   what's it called? The new gen strata v 2 where the miners actually Do you think that's actually gonna happen?  

[01:50:40] Unknown:

Why is it happen?  

[01:50:41] Unknown:

There's a regulation angle. I would love it. Right? Because, like, who knows if, like, let's say for instance, just an example, if the US regulators will allow miners to allow   individuals to set their own transaction,   blocks.  

[01:50:56] Unknown:

I I don't know. Well, it's like the OFAC compliant block. Stratum 2 fixes this. Right? So But the thing is  

[01:51:03] Unknown:

don't allow that. That's What's the regulators? No. No. The regulators. No. These are still US businesses, but US founders No. But if you got a mind in your house, you don't care about So that's my question. But you're a part of a fool.  

[01:51:15] Unknown:

No. But it it fools has to play. Play game. They're a big enough corporation. They still have to play games. No. So I'll use a pool so I'll use a pool in China that doesn't care about OFAC.  

[01:51:24] Unknown:

Sure. That's like the whole point. They don't they don't care until the hammer comes down. Still could happen. No. But it's jurisdictional arbitrage. You just, you know, go overseas  

[01:51:32] Unknown:

with your mining pool and and then China's not gonna care. Until you get pints thrown in the cell. Can we have that you could you could try to escape it so long. So what? No. I sustained that. So what?   Who cares? The regulators   will say whatever they want. Your money wanders. Your money wanders.   They'll make up what the state will make up whatever defense they need to.   So   the the regulatory   attacks, are we done,  

[01:51:59] Unknown:

or have we not seen anything yet? Yet? No. They're gonna keep going. Yeah. We haven't seen anything. Seen anything. Yeah. This We're just getting started. Crazy eventually. Exactly. We can also Now it's now it's all nice and and fun, and we are just really fuck you to to marathon for doing OFAC compliance, but it it will be nuts, really. I know.   Do you wanna, like, pop your head in so that, like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe  

[01:52:41] Unknown:

We're learn we're learning live why, none of none of the competing shows have a live chat.   So I mean, Stratum v 2, like, to bring it back to Stratum v 2,   the the main issue the 2 main issues is regulatory compliance on the pool side.   And then the second issue is, I mean, I don't think many miners wanna run their own node and fucking deal with it. We can do it quick right now with Stratum v 2. Stratum v 2 is right now, have been formally called better hash by Matt Corallo, and then the guys at Slushpoolbrains,   have been working on it to create Stratum v 2. They integrate it in. And the idea is right now we have the mining pools.  

You know, the famously, we have 5 or 6 mining pools that control the majority of hash rate. Right? It's a famous FUD. And the the the key issue with mining pools is the mining pool operator.   The guy who's running the pool   is constructing the blocks, is deciding which transaction is going to block. If that's MARIPool, they're putting that on a blacklist. Right? And they're saying OFAC compliance. With strategy 2, the individual miners are constructing the blocks and putting the transactions in. So it takes away the power. Right now, as it stands, if if your mining pool starts doing fuckery,   you basically have to as a miner, you have to manually go and leave that pool and switch. So there's a lag. It's like a delayed check on the power. With stratum v 2, you have that power ahead of time. Now there's an extra nuance there   that in a mining pool, you're sharing the fucking   profits with the rest of your mining pool participants.  

So if you have   individual miners choosing which transactions get included and they're not being profit selective. And they're choosing transactions that are smaller, like, oh, like, Josh has, like, a a transaction that needs to confirm. So I'm gonna put my buddy's transaction in the thing. You start to have issues. So there's there's an extra element there that they're kind of working through right now where they need to make sure and that could be an attack too because you could have, let's say, f 2 pool who also mines themselves and our pool. They could go into slush pool if slush is the only one doing stratum v 2. And every time they construct a block, they can construct it in a in a poor profitability way to make every slash minus profitability bad, so then they switch to an f 2 pool or something. So if you start to think in adversarial environment,   there's a lot of it's it's not so clean-cut that, like, strategy to the future, but the classic Bitcoin thing and I've been trying to be contrarian lately. I've just been wrong about everything. But the classic Bitcoin thing is like, oh, Striving v two fixes everything. It's just gonna happen in 2 weeks, and we're good. But you still have to put up significant hash power to do that. I mean, if if if if one pull works, you try to attack and then pull you stuff, but significant hash power just for the chance  

[01:55:24] Unknown:

that you're fucking them over. Right? So, I mean, there there's still a significant hash power out of the wire. But there's some game theory there. It's it's the ultimate solution is probably some, you know,  

[01:55:36] Unknown:

it's probably some kind of, like, I'm full gym. Emoji.  

[01:55:41] Unknown:

I I wanna I want everyone to remember here both in the in our our in person audience and   our our our cast and catch over here that the majority of listeners are coming in through the are coming in through the podcast audio feed. So they have no idea what's going on in the live chat. So it's important that if you do interact   a lot that you  

[01:56:00] Unknown:

that you explain what you're Yeah. They're literally, like, continuously roasting us. They're, like, less than hour.  

[01:56:08] Unknown:

Like, this kid with the strike tank top, he's on ultra salty. So, Anthony, when we talk about strategy 2, right, like, what's gonna happen is slush is gonna incorporate it first. Right? Yes. So how much what percentage is   is less than 10? Yeah. It's like 4 or 5. 4 or 5%. 4 or 5%. Ben, are you enjoying yourself on the show?  

[01:56:28] Unknown:

Basically, Ben just saw the commenter.  

[01:56:32] Unknown:

Peter is getting off   off week close to bed. Watch out, Paul.  

[01:56:37] Unknown:

Boys again, bitch. Witches actually happened. Hey. He's still in one of these.  

[01:56:44] Unknown:

He's just trying to reach that. That's why.   Just I I wonder, though. I mean, from from a practical   perspective, like, where are we at? Does anyone here know where we we are at with strategy 2? Are we close? Are we, like, like, years or what? I mean, I feel like there was that announcement, and then everyone's like, oh, this is a huge thing that I haven't heard. I think this week at the conference, maybe. I don't know. Some time. That's right. It's I think it's pretty cool close though.   That's what we always say, though. It's okay. No. We're like things we have. I really hope so. Fixes this. Like, l 2 fixes  

[01:57:16] Unknown:

this. Stratify 2 Well, nothing happens overnight. I mean But that's why I'm asking now. Like, we're like, are we actually close with Cyber Shadowbee too? No. It's like multi year long project just to get it working at a basic level. And then ways years ago. And then another few years to get it, like, working decent. Lower your time preference then. Yeah. But this is something worth it. Like, this really changes so many dynamics  

[01:57:37] Unknown:

and gets rid of this whole censorship bullshit that marathon was pushing. Like so things like this, they're worth waiting multiple years, multiple cycles even before. And it's gonna be much more important in the future, like a few years down the road, like, okay. The OFAC thing is gonna be actually take drama, but now It gets more important as transaction fees become more important. Exactly. The whole point is is what what transactions are confirmed. But the whole point instead of the dispatch is, like, where where we at now? Like, where what actionable things we can do now? Like, and if we're talking about strategy 2, we're in strategy 2 on that. And I just I think it's like if it's still years away, then it's like I think you should basically get, like, an s nine, flash it with their, Ring's OS firmware,  

[01:58:15] Unknown:

and then you can connect it to slush pool, and it'll use stratum v 2   to more or less.   Well I I mean, I well, to answer this question, I think it's, like, mostly working right. Yeah. Other than that, it's my question. I mean, the big concern is what I said, the adversarial aspect. Right? Yeah. That's that's the game theory thing is separate from, like, the technology itself actually. Yeah. Like, the spec is, like  

[01:58:36] Unknown:

like, it's all planned out, and the the firmware works right, but we haven't seen it in adversarial environment. Like, you don't really know.   My car.   Well,   this has been fucking great.  

[01:58:57] Unknown:

I love that. The.  

[01:59:00] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good.  

[01:59:05] Unknown:

We just It has your car. Out and watch the chat. Yeah. Bring this car over. Yeah. Bring the car, ship it. FedEx.   Car with the green chip. Did you bring it over? Get the cameras. People that has to wait. The what?   The cameras. The hell is that? The road.  

[01:59:22] Unknown:

The other thing I like how you pronounce is privacy. You say privacy.   I love that. I'm gonna just adopt that. It was unfucking language first before you keep to say.   So I'm I'm Ross. Well, you guys should have been nicer, Ross. And Actually actually,  

[01:59:37] Unknown:

you guys spoke like us. I don't know. Sometimes I think Which is what I think. Right? I think it's schedule. Not schedule.   Schedule. Yeah. Schedule. No. You guys spoke like us, and then, like, in, like yeah. Yeah. That's what, like, linguists say. Like, you had, like, American accents, and then, like, people always spoke No. We've always That's impossible.  

[01:59:57] Unknown:

Better than you. Better than you. Well, we are better than you. You say  

[02:00:02] Unknown:

I don't know about that.  

[02:00:05] Unknown:

No. That's  

[02:00:07] Unknown:

awesome. But, I mean, America's been kicking Britain's ass this year, basically. Right? Like, it took a it took a pretty bad turn.   At what? I mean, at at everything. At everything.  

[02:00:19] Unknown:

What is No. You're casting.  

[02:00:23] Unknown:

So   so so so we're sitting we're sitting in in the most elite suite at Indy 5 100, the Ed Carpenter suite.   And, pizza at one of the tables there, you know, he's got the TV on the on the side showing the race. You can go outside on the two sides if you if you want to actually   be a part of the race.   And he's he's FaceTiming his daughter. He's got this wonderful daughter. He calls me over. He's like, Matt, like, I want you to meet my daughter on on FaceTime.   And he he turns to her and he goes he goes, this is Matt Odell. This is the 2nd best  

[02:00:55] Unknown:

that's a fun space.  

[02:00:57] Unknown:

And   she turns to me and she goes, who's the first daddy?  

[02:01:05] Unknown:

Oh. Oh. Oh,  

[02:01:08] Unknown:

that's rough.  

[02:01:10] Unknown:

Bitch.   No. She's a.  

[02:01:17] Unknown:

So this has been fantastic.   I've been I'm I'm inclined to say we should wrap this up,   fucking have a great fucking time in this fucking citadel with all these fucking awesome people over here.   I'm not gonna I'm not gonna burst your signal that aspect. The live chat can go fuck themselves.   And,   I mean, do you guys have any final thoughts before we we close this up and have the fucking insane night?   Bitcointv.com.  

[02:01:47] Unknown:

Don't sue him.  

[02:01:50] Unknown:

No. I am the one. Oh, you're yeah. Yeah.  

[02:01:54] Unknown:

Big cheers to all the freaks who joined us   in the live chat.   Big big shout out to all the freaks who joined us here at the Citadel.   Big shout out to everyone who supports the show, so we're able to keep it ad free. I hope to see many of you   in Miami over this next week. I'm gonna slowly walk over   and, I love you all. It's great to see you guys.  

[02:02:42] Unknown:

Waking up, I checked the price of Bitcoin.   Scrolling on down through the shit coins.   Hot damn, I'm up 20 baz.   Less is once again like, oh, oh, oh.  

[02:02:55] Unknown:

My  

[02:04:34] Unknown:

mister Swan and   Max. Every fellow o g r c t, loomedar,   r and r, dopes and kobe.   There's no lie. See, I lost all my money in the exchange hack and the boating accident that happened after that. Plus, I'm down a couple racks from when I both see cash. It's okay, I'll write it off, whatever helps the tax.   Waking up, I check the price of Bitcoin.  

[02:06:23] Unknown:

Love you freaks. Stay humble. Stack stats.