Citadel Dispatch

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MADEX is an incredibly talented bitcoin artist and a good friend based in Canada. We discuss his long journey producing freedom focused high quality physical artwork while trying to make a sustainable living. We also discuss his work leading branding for Canadian bitcoin services provider Bull Bitcoin and his concerns with modern corporate social platforms.

MADEX on Nostr: https://primal.net/p/npub1ndketdm2qyv35nrhsxzks8kh7w7w6tll4rjp29hv0qjqkgfjsh6snmgk2v

Explore his art: https://madex.art/

EPISODE: 141
BLOCK: 865812
PRICE: 1501 sats per dollar

support dispatch: https://citadeldispatch.com/donate
nostr live chat: https://citadeldispatch.com/stream
nostr account: https://primal.net/odell
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitadelDispatch
podcast: https://serve.podhome.fm/CitadelDispatch
stream sats to the show: https://www.fountain.fm/
join the chat: https://citadeldispatch.com/chat

Outro Music by TIP NZ: https://primal.net/p/npub1hrctsg2qwu5gsp65gvj29968z460g0th755jq92c8uaz620lewmq6qk525

(00:00:01) The Madex Manifesto

(00:05:24) Introduction to Citadel Dispatch

(00:05:56) Interview with Bitcoin Artist Madex

(00:16:24) Madex's Views on NFTs and Digital Art

(00:29:42) The Value of Physical Art and Bitcoin Integration

(00:50:26) Role and Branding at Bull Bitcoin

(00:58:18) Challenges with Social Media and Nostr's Potential

(01:14:13) Final Thoughts and Announcements

[00:00:09] Unknown:

A Madex manifesto.   In the realm of creation,   where the soul's expression finds form in color,   sound, and shape,   there lies a sacred covenant   between the artist and their craft.   This manifesto   is a declaration of fidelity   to that covenant.   A refusal to succumb to the siren calls of mediocrity   and avarice,   which threaten to corrupt the pure essence of our work.   We stand at a crossroads   where the path of integrity   diverges sharply   from the road paved with gold, but lined with the hollow shells of compromised vision and diluted passion. Print money to do that.   The charlatan,   cloaked in the guise of opportunity,   beckons us towards the latter,   promising riches and acclaim   in exchange for the very soul of our artistry.  

This manifesto   is our resolute answer.   We will not be swayed.   Art in its highest form is an unyielding quest for truth and beauty,   a journey inward to the depths of the human experience,   and outward   to the vastness   of our collective imagination.   It is both a mirror reflecting the world as it is   and a window to what it could be.   To reduce this sacred pursuit to mere commodity,   to churn out soulless creations   for the sake of profit   is an affront to the creative spirit that dwells within each of us.   The charlatan   preys upon our fears and insecurities,   whispering of a world where survival hinges on conformity   and success is measured in material wealth.  

But we know that the true value of art cannot be quantified by currency or popularity.   It is found in the moments of connection and understanding,   in the shared humanity   that emerges from the canvas,   the page,   the melody.   Therefore,   we reject the false promises   of easy fortune and fleeting fame.   Our commitment   is to the enduring legacy   of quality and depth   to works that challenge,   inspire,   and move the human soul.   We pledge to uphold the standards of excellence   that have guided the masters of our past,   even in the face of a culture   that increasingly values the quick and the cheap over the timeless   and the profound.  

Let this manifesto serve as a beacon   to all who believe in the transformative power of art.   In defiance of the charlatan's temptation,   we choose the path of resistance,   the road less traveled,   fraught with challenges,   but rich with rewards.   Our creations   will not be the product of compromise,   but the embodiments   of our most authentic selves and our deepest truths.   In solidarity with artists everywhere   who labor in the name of beauty and truth,   we stand firm in our resolve.   We will not dilute our visions or betray our talents for the sake of convenience or profit.   Our art will remain a testament to the indomitable spirit of creation.  

A light that no darkness of mediocrity can extinguish.   Let this manifesto be our vow   to never falter in our dedication to the craft,   to always strive for the pinnacle of artistic achievement,   and to live and create in a manner worthy of the gifts we have been bestowed.   In the face of temptation,   we hold fast to our principles,   for in the end, it is not the applause of the present,   but the respect of posterity we seek.   Our legacy   will not be one of compromise,   but of unyielding commitment   to the excellence and integrity   that define the true essence   of art.  



[00:05:19] ODELL:

Happy Bitcoin.   What day of the week is it? Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your host, Odell, here for another   Citadel dispatch,   the interactive live show focused on actionable Bitcoin   and Freedom Tech discussion.   I'm your host, Odell here.   We have a great guest today. I'm dealing with a little bit of technical difficulties,   which is that ZapStream is currently not working. So we have pivoted hard into the YouTube live chat, which is now shown on screen.   But anyway, with all that said, that was the Madex manifesto.   I have,   Bitcoin artist and Bitcoin legend and good friend, Madex here to join me. How's it going, Madex?  

Oh, and I muted you. I'm sorry. It's one of those days.  

[00:06:11] Madex:

You're unmuted. No worries. No worries.   Thanks for having me.  

[00:06:17] ODELL:

Well, thanks for joining.  

[00:06:20] Madex:

Oh, we're out of sync a little bit here.  

[00:06:22] ODELL:

Yeah. Did it just, like, everything just broke all at once?   We're good. We're good. Everything will be fine.   I'll I'll help you. Pleasure.   So ladies and gentlemen, freaks,   Madex is one of the best Bitcoin artists out there.   He's one of my two favorite artists.   Just shout out to Nogood who did,   the album art for all the art for A Siddle Dispatch.   But Madex,   first and foremost, what was,   the inspiration for that, manifesto that we just watched and listened to?  

[00:07:00] Madex:

Well,   most importantly, it was created so   that   if I'm killed somehow,   there's at least something   left behind   that can have   a   positive impact   now that   I hope the rest of the Madex project,   eventually does. So   I tried to   take everything   that I was feeling and everything that I felt was important as a message to sort of anchor   this,   change in the way all products are made and designed and   cared for as a result of Bitcoin appearing.   And,   have sort of like a touch point that, okay, this is when   this is the moment where things shifted   from   tragic garbage   fiat trash to,   people beginning to hone their skills,   seek improvement,   reach higher,   and,   for for for people with capital to not settle,   for bullshit stuff that just doesn't have any weight that can carry on any any momentum into the future.  

And yeah. So I tried to kinda capture   all of that as best I could with just kind of the random footage that I had. I've been made x is a 10 year old project that's only now starting to get some legs.   And so had quite a lot of footage lying around and I thought it was the perfect kind of,   backdrop to kind of put it all to   my journey from being really, really horrible at everything   to a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better to kinda where I am now.   And,   you know, I think it's a good,   just a good layout for anyone in the future that wants to kinda take on creative arts as as a career,   and,   produce cool stuff for the Bitcoin future. That's  

[00:09:07] ODELL:

so do you did you do the editing yourself?  

[00:09:11] Madex:

So the primary,   the the first cut was done by,   Kinetic Finance,   Julian.   So he did the first cut and then,   Aidan who's been filming with me for 10 years and myself, we sat down and did like the final, the final edit and the final cut to kind of get all the timing,   sorted properly, make sure that the voice over was perfect,   lock in,   all and and then really match   all the clips in a way that,   that I I just wanted there to be as many Easter eggs as possible in the whole thing.   So we really tried to pick out stuff that kinda has a link or has a has a meaning kinda beyond even just the words and the visuals there. So,   yeah, dialed in that last part, and then I had a huge amount of stage fright and decided I wasn't gonna release it.  

And then, I was encouraged by,   the supportive cast around me that it had to be released, and I just kind of got over it and was like, well,   whatever. You know, it's gotta be out there.   But,   yeah. I got  

[00:10:22] ODELL:

I mean, I think you crushed it. You really captured, I I think,   a lot of the essence of your work. I mean, huge shout out to, my our good friend Harry, my cofounder at Bigwin Park,   for being the voice over that I think he he really nailed it on   voice over.  

[00:10:42] Madex:

Yeah. Yeah that was absolutely excellent.  

[00:10:44] ODELL:

But I mean it's a complete change of pace for you. So to the to the listeners that are not aware,   Madex mostly,   he he focuses on physical art. He's incredibly unique,   in the physical art space.   Like actual like canvas   and I guess paint is that I don't know what you I'm not an artist.   But this was a a major departure from that while still trying to capture the essence of what you constantly ship. And I think you did a really good job at that.   But,   I guess let's just pull it back.   You know, I think one of the most unique aspects   of of   of what you produce   is   is that you do try and capture this idea of, like, Bitcoin culture.  

Bitcoin culture and   and how the world might be different from an artist's point of view,   under a Bitcoin standard.   When you like when you think I mean, you've been in Bitcoin almost as long as me or as long as me. I think we have basically the same timeline   for a little over a decade.   How have you felt like Bitcoin culture, like, change over time?  

[00:12:02] Madex:

Well, I mean,   I think   I guess we could call it culture now, but it's just the   results   of the change in incentives   that that Bitcoin brings and kind of   imagining into that future   and, I guess calling calling attention   to all of that. And, I think that I guess, like, culture or I'd say, like,   community wise,   I don't think we were really   I think Bitcoin needed to be really   secure   for,   the artistic   conversations to really kind of start taking off because,   beforehand,   it was   like   invest everybody wanted to be early on Bitcoin, but it was actually like really horrible   and fucked up to be early on Bitcoin.  

Extremely painful. And   you will if you were early on Bitcoin, it means that for the rest of your life, no matter how hard you worked, you will   always be in the red forever.   And,   that's a lot that's a lot to carry. And at that time,   there wasn't really like   I feel like I didn't have 1,000,000 percent certainty in Bitcoin until,   the no two x stuff.   And,   we,   that whole situation playing out that to me that kind of like showed like, okay, this is really like not fucking going anywhere and nobody and truly nobody can fuck with it.   And then I think that just kind of laid the stage for being able to actually like   being able to fantasize about what's possible,   as this thing succeeds, and then   try and shed light on on those futures. And,   I guess use the dream of those futures   to bring more people in to to have more people learn about what we're doing and and to,   really   share what what's possible with this little change of fixing the money.  

So I remember   0 artistic conversations   really in the beginning, in the early days. And then now,   I  

[00:14:29] ODELL:

Did you freeze on me?   Did we lose we lost Maydex.   He's in the middle of nowhere with no heat, by the way, which is why he has   a jacket on.  

[00:14:41] Madex:

I'm back. How is it?  

[00:14:44] ODELL:

I'm getting mixed signals. I think the nostril chat is working now, but I'm glad you're back. I'm doing like,   technical stuff over here trying to   fix, but I think that was your fault. You disconnected.   But, anyway, you were kind of rambling on. It it is Yeah. I think my   It was it's been it's been a long decade.   Yeah.  

[00:15:06] Madex:

I mean, I I don't know who said it, but I mean, it's like, could you say it's 10 years in the next 30 seconds? Like  

[00:15:16] ODELL:

so,   where do we wanna go for this? First of all, to the Nostril live chat, I'm aware that it's working now, and I'm gonna try and get it back into the live stream. So for everyone out there, it's still dispatch.com/stream.   Matex is having Internet connectivity issues,   but that is where the nostrilive chat is. You don't need a nostril account   to use it, and I will pipe in that chat once I get it going.   But if you see me working in the background, that's me trying to get it up on my side. For some reason, I can't get it to work.   The   so, I mean, let's let's let's talk real quick about I I mean, I wanna go kind of broad here because I I think your perspective on Bitcoin is interesting, and   and   we've kind of become the minority even though we kind of started as the majority in Bitcoin. And that's kind of where I was going at with the last decade. But one piece that I think is an interesting piece here is so you're an artist and you've seen,   the rise of NFTs and   digital art and and then it came to Bitcoin with with inscriptions.  

What's your opinion on those? Do you release NFTs?  

[00:16:29] Madex:

No.   That that's your answer? It's stupid. Yeah. No. I feel like you're pretty bad, though.   Any anybody with,   any IQ   understands that it's fucking stupid. Like, it   I just   it's one thing to be collecting stuff, but then another thing to be paying real world money prices   for digital files. It's just totally insane. I think the large majority of it is fake. I think the large majority of it majority of it is money laundering,   or just, like, pumping,   that the same it's just it's just repackaged ICO scams. There there's no   there's no differences.  

And, you know, the only thing is is that, like, when the ICO   scams were happening,   the scammers were going to major corporations and saying, hey, like, you gotta get on the cutting edge of this new technology and you don't wanna be left behind by block   chain. And then now   the mark has just changed because the corporations wised up to that, and they're like, yeah, this blockchain is bullshit. At least most of them did.   And,   so the scammers had to change their mark and the most vulnerable community, I think, in fiat times on earth is artists and creators.   It's the hardest   it's it's the work with the most passion behind it and the hardest to make a living in, within fiat conditions.  

And, so that so artists just became the new target and the scam went from telling asking corporations, don't you wanna be, like, ahead with the best new technology? And   now it's with the artists, like, oh,   you know, here here's a whole new market that can open up to you, that can finance you, and that can you can sell to you, and a whole new you're gonna be on the cutting edge of how the world is changing. And it's just   it a total   bullshit pitch.   And then it distracts people from making   actual work that can have momentum into the future and that matters,   because people are fucking around with   repeating AI gens and then posting the graphic files or just making really shit, like, pixely stuff or whatever. We've all seen, like, all the crap out there, and none of it is gonna be thought of or remembered,   especially   in the face of Bitcoin   reigning superior   and kick starting this renaissance of,   making things that really are built to last.  

You you want you want when if something is built to last, you want it to be, like, fucking beautiful because you don't want anyone to tear it down because it's ugly. So you gotta make it really, really awesome.  

[00:19:17] ODELL:

Love that. By the way, I think something happened to your microphone when you disconnected and reconnected. It was, like, a little bit crackly.  

[00:19:24] Madex:

Oh, shit.  

[00:19:25] ODELL:

Maybe it switched to which microphone it's using.   I'm still trying to get the Nostra live chat. I'm on an Airbnb Wi Fi over here.   Maybe my maybe the ISP over here is fucking with me.   But I'm doing that live troubleshooting, which is great. But we have a ton of freaks that are zapping us in the nostril live stream, so I'm trying to get them over here.   I, Yeah. I mean, you've never shipped an NFT. You specifically are physical art only. In a world that is going increasingly digital,   you have done the exact diametric opposite.   Feel like that should be applauded. Like, that's   that's amazing.  



[00:20:12] Madex:

Well, thank you.   I mean, I I totally understand why so many artists went with it. I mean, for the most part, they were just naive and didn't understand the scam because they didn't, they don't,   crypto is like this,   total   big monster of confusion   to anyone who's new to it.   But most importantly like in a fiat world nobody's really supporting artists and especially artists with   no followings.   And the the whole NFT   stuff, like, really   was a way in the beginning to create, like,   income streams for those artists.   But then   the obvious issue is that, you know, what they're selling has no longevity.  

So it just   it can't hold its value.   But I mean the first thing I did when   the NFT,   the day I read about the NFTs was   realized with   the open dime from CoinKite,   you could if what they cared about that they said was valuable about the NFT was the artist's signature,   you could mine a vanity address in Bitcoin and then use that address to sign transactions   to an OpenDime and then physically attach the OpenDime   to the piece of artwork. So you'd have a verification,   of the artist's signature   physically attached to the artwork.   And because   I I miss of course, I was, I guess naive in the beginning too. I didn't think it was about scamming people.  

And I was like, oh, okay. They're saying that like a digital signature   has value in authenticating the art.   So a vanity address and an OpenDime attached   to any piece of art,   that is   that's a verification.   And that's all the stuff they like to say about in the blockchain.  

[00:22:13] ODELL:

And then CoinKite developed the Sats chip after that. You mix the two elements together because I think there is actually something there about, like, almost like a digital certificate of authenticity.   Right? So, like, you're, like, literally   attaching this physical   Bitcoin hardware to the back of it,   that has   that that actually, like, acts as a certificate of authenticity. Right? But it's a piece of physical art.  

[00:22:39] Madex:

Yeah.   Yeah. And then if anyone ever wants to verify it, they can just disconnect.   And and, like, this is the problem why none of this stuff can ever work is because   you need   like, just because it a piece of artwork has say let's say it's one of my pieces and it has the open dime and it has a digital signature from Madex,   you still need a third party to verify   that the art that it's attached to is legitimate.   So that that's why blockchain never succeeded in fucking anything is because no matter what, when you're moving from physical to the digital world, you need a third party to verify it.   Like, if you're putting blockchain   tracking chips on fucking chickens that you're sending around the world, you need someone there to authenticate that that   that it is indeed   attached to what they say it is attached to. And then on top of that, you gotta be able to trust that person. And then there's a whole trust web   off of it right away. So it's like that's why I know that stuff worked in the first place. So it's got it's definitely like a novelty thing. There's nothing like foolproof about it,   in in terms of if if, like, Madex work ever got to extreme   levels of, authenticating maybe a 100 years in the future or something.  

But,   you know, it's fun. It's cool. And it's a way that you can kinda make something that,   is older, modern.   And, also, it gets people interested in Bitcoin. Because a lot of people buy my work that,   are not   Bitcoiners. They're just anti state,   or they just you know, a lot a lot of the work,   is based off of, portraits and people and,   lots of hot babes and all that stuff.   So and then when they see work that has the OpenDimes   attached to it, it kind of starts the conversation. So it's like a little bit of a Trojan horse in in that way.   And I'm hoping to do more of that kind of stuff because art is the most difficult thing in the world to sell. It is like the absolute premium,   highest level luxury good. There's nothing more   luxurious than spending $10,000,000   on a painting. Like, if you buy if you buy a,   you know, Pagani utopia, it's like $3,000,000   or whatever. You buy a painting, it's 10,000,000.  

There there it's like that's just   it's just really ridiculous in itself.   A little spiel on that. Like, for a long time, I was really motivated by, like, these huge sales and these huge auctions and these,   like, big artists that you would hear about, x y z sells painting for whatever. And,   but later as I started really studying the space and understanding the art business,   came to realize that and and   thankful to understanding a lot about Bitcoin and about fiat incentives.   It's all it's all fake.   All those artists,   all all that   all that art moving, all that money moving,   it's, you know, sure there's some suckers that get sucked in along the way that, like, spend 10,000,000 for the sake of just really wanting to have that painting, but the majority of it is just moving   moving money in fiat ways that make it   more palatable for the people who want that money.  



[00:26:03] ODELL:

I'm still taking I'm gonna have the Nostra chat up any moment now.   Yeah. I mean so it's not just first of all, I think you demean the certificate of authenticity aspect a little bit. As long as your private key is not compromised,   no one can fake an original matex,   with an OpenDime on the back. Like, it's it's actually  

[00:26:26] Madex:

Yeah. It's true. I mean, the the only   they would they could, like, attach an OpenDime   to something that is not a Matex,   but I've also tried to make my work for the most part, like all the major stuff, like when you're getting into the big paintings,   all of those are impossible to duplicate. Like there's no   Chinese painter that can re oil paint a made x.   They're just too insanely complicated,   to to ever be copied.   And they're that that's from, like, the paper tearing and the multi layering, building up all the all the layers, adding the different resin layers.   It's just impossible   to duplicate.  

On on stuff that   is not as complex,   then, you know, you could have people messing around, switching stuff, moving things. Like, take taking, an open dime from a small piece that's worth, you know, $10 and putting it onto   a fake giant piece that's worth,   you know, than and then faking it that way. But, like, you're you're right. I mean, there will only be as long as the matex key is not compromised,   every single one of those   OpenDimes   is a verification.  

[00:27:43] ODELL:

True. They could act they could take an they could take an existing   Madex OpenDime and put it on a piece of shit.   Yeah. Because there's nothing that links the art to the actual OpenDime.  

[00:27:54] Madex:

Yeah. Yeah. So I had a I had a site I had a site that was, tracking and what because when when I first did when I first did all this stuff, I was like, holy shit. This is fucking genius.   And,   as   and I built   a whole website that watches all the addresses. So all the addresses were tied to   a photo of the painting that it was attached to with the front and back and then   the transaction,   the address,   and then it had a green or a red toggle   that and and   what the site was checking for was if the coins on that open dime have been swept or moved.   So if the coins had been moved then it would void it and it would it would show red voided. And if the coins were still on that in that address on that open dime it would be green.  

And, yeah, it was freaking sweet. It's still there just sitting there, but, you know, like, that stuff cost a bunch to maintain and, like, I felt like nobody cared at the time. But   so I gotta get, you know, in in the future, I wanna get it running full speed with kinda everything new that's coming out and really have, like, a solid,   base there, get it all updated. Like, I have I have a record of all the addresses I've ever funded,   and you can see them all, like, through the vanity address.   But having, like, an actual I think I had the domain, like, verify Madex or something. So  

[00:29:26] ODELL:

By the way,   22 minutes into the conversation, I got the Nostrilive chat up. I'm sorry, guys.   I appreciate all these efforts. See all these apps we've been getting? Well, it wasn't these are the ride or dies.  

[00:29:38] Madex:

Nice.  

[00:29:39] ODELL:

The   yeah. So you touched on a little piece there. Right? It's like you actually put   Bitcoin on the OpenDime too. It's not just a digital signature.   So there's I I like to think of it almost like I like I think your art is worth it. I mean,   I don't buy art.   I stack sats,   and, like, it's very hard for me to separate myself with Bitcoin.   And like you said, art is a luxury good. But I have made the exception for your pieces. I will say that I usually get a print and not the originals because   I still can't justify the higher price tag for the 1 of 1 originals. But the 1 of 1 originals   come with Bitcoin on the back. Like, there's actually Bitcoin in   there's Bitcoin in the painting. You know? Like,   Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah. In select ones like a base value. It was like a base value no matter what in the art. That's way below the sticker price, but still kinda cool. Yeah.  



[00:30:34] Madex:

Everything was really on on track until   the whole ordinals   bullshit because,   all the ordinals,   flooding and spamming the network just made it impossible to fund the Open Dimes.   And so my my whole, like, supply chain got fucking backed up. And then after that, I was like, okay. Well, basically, they and then also I had a couple that were lost in the mail   and,   or like stolen off people's front porches or whatever. So I made 2 changes. First change is that nothing ships with Bitcoin on it anymore.   If the client wants coins, then we have to arrange it once the art is in their hands.   And then also everything is shipped with FedEx, fucking priority tracking numbers, all that stuff. And that's why the shipping is really expensive on the site,   because just things going missing is not worth the Wait. So what really upsetting.  



[00:31:28] ODELL:

You load it up with Bitcoin after they receive it. But not all not always. Not all originals are gonna have Bitcoin on the back anymore?  

[00:31:38] Madex:

Well, I mean, I I haven't really made a decision on it.  

[00:31:43] ODELL:

You should you should always give the public or not. I  

[00:31:47] Madex:

I probably will. It's just kind of a logistics thing, but,   it's definitely possible.   So and now and now,   that all the ordinal stuff has kinda cooled off and gone away, like, it's actually  

[00:32:01] ODELL:

it's possible to get small transactions through again. I mean, how big do you usually put in?  

[00:32:06] Madex:

Well, for a long time, I was putting a 1,000,000 sats on every single one, and then I found out that was fucking stupid. So then I started putting   so I started putting fucking 500,000,   and then a 100,000. So the the majority of them have a 100,000 sats on them.   And then some of them have, like, obscure,   like strange numbers that are relevant somehow,   you know, numerology type numbers, it varies.   But, yeah, I mean the ultimate thing would be to have everything, every like the whole   guys, art is like a fucking super hard business. Like, okay, take take the hardest business in the world to compete in, the hardest business in the world to sell in,   and then add   that your primary   client market is Bitcoiners, the hardest people in the world to take money from.  

So, you know, I've I had to make a lot of fucking changes   and move things around. But I mean, basically, what's happening right now is I'm stopped. There's gonna be no more small Madex artwork. So I have, like, about, I don't know, 50 or so pieces left to finish and a couple others to release. And then once all that stuff is out,   there's no more small stuff. And then the future is rolling   with these jewels, which I don't know if you've seen yet. So I have not.   They're very awesome.   Yeah. I'm I'm a Bitcoiner who's gonna be selling gold and silver.   Are you but you're you're still gonna make art pieces. Right? Yeah. But I'm I'm still gonna make the art pieces, but the art is just going to be,   it's gonna be big art only, basically. Like, big big priced items and Oh, like size? Like big. Yeah. Like big big stuff, you know, like, probably like minimum   size, like 30 by 40 inches   kind of realm. And,  

[00:34:02] ODELL:

Okay. I like that size.  

[00:34:04] Madex:

Yeah.  

[00:34:07] ODELL:

And, instead instead of making small stuff. So If I go on your website right now first of all, by the way, I think I've told you this in person, but there was heavy drinking involved.   I really like the idea of the one of 1 original,   and it's I think it should have an open dime or a a Satch chip or what however you wanna do that on the back with Bitcoin in it. One of 1 original, priced   appropriately, which should be high, I think. I mean, right now, like, it's, like, 6,000 to $9,000   in in in fiat terms.   And   at that price point, by the way, I think you can justify   putting a million sats on them again,   which right now is, like, 600   bucks, something like that. Like, a a a decent chunk is in there. You know? And if if Yeah. You can just raise the price by $600 or whatever. Just put put Bitcoin on the back   after they arrive. Like, wait till the recipient confirms it, then you send it to it.  

And then   I really like the idea of the limited edition prints, which is what I've been a sucker for lately at a lower price point. And but those should still be limited edition, you know. I think some of them are like 1 of 31. I think 31 is what you settled on for a lot of them. 34.   34.   I like that   idea. Individually numbered, so you get, like, double limited edition about it.   That makes sense to me.   The   the thing about Bitcoiners is   we are also holding, well, a lot of us are holding the majority of our wealth in   what I believe is the best asset of all time. So over time, you know, I think   I will accumulate more madex pieces. It's just not at this point of my   of my existence, am I willing to to justify it. But I expect to I I want I was talking to my wife. I was like, we want, like, a Madex room. Like, one day we'll have, like, a Madex room, you know?  

And I'm seeing someone in the live NASA chat. By the way, guys, as always, you guys are kind of the cohost with me. So feel free to put your comments and questions   in,   the live chat. Obviously, your zaps are appreciated. The show does not have any advertisers or sponsors.   I still remain one of the few that are trying to do the pure value for value model of no sponsorships.   So your zaps do go a long way.   He's asking about displays at Bitcoin Park. We actually have had we've displayed Madex for a for a long time at the park, but we're we're about to ape into it in an even bigger way. It's gonna become, you know, one of the main   showcases   of of Madex pieces where you can actually see them in person, and then you can actually buy them directly,   in person.  

So I'm pretty excited about that. I think that's gonna be awesome.  

[00:36:48] Madex:

Yeah. I have a huge crate that's shipping out to you,   probably Thursday or Friday.   I have a lot of stuff.   So  

[00:36:59] ODELL:

that's badass. Well, we're gonna Yeah. For for what it's worth, we've upped our security system,   at the park and,   and,  

[00:37:10] Madex:

Nashville, Tennessee. Tennessee is a constitutional carry state. So fuck around, man. Does not does not fuck around, man.  

[00:37:18] ODELL:

That's awesome. So, the coins, what's the deal with the metal jewelry?   Is it this is gonna be an addition is it, like, a lower price point or  

[00:37:26] Madex:

easier Yeah. Well, the I mean, the main thing is is that, like, my timing was super fucking bad. Like, I,   rented out a huge warehouse. I hired some staff to help me. I, like, put in a whole bunch of expansion plans and then FTX happened like a month later. Yeah.   And so how I handled like this bear market that we went through is basically like   flooded   art out.   And didn't even really, like, I was just I'm, like,   if it's fucking   bear market, like, let's get original work flowing   and   get it out at a good price and, like, keep everything rolling at Madex.   And I never really and I I had this kinda, like, attitude about prints at that time. I didn't wanna do prints.  

And   I guess I kind of realized that I wanna do more than like sit in a studio hunched over art for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.   And like, don't get me wrong, I love it. But like,   when it's, like,   week over week over week,   and   all of a sudden I was, like, well, it really   I   a, people not everyone can afford an original piece.   And then b, I kinda realized that every single one of those prints going out there is sort of,   it's just awesome. I don't know. I don't think that, like, only people who are ballers should be able to have Madex stuff.   So   that's kind of the plan now is basically do like the big paintings at that high price point and then do limited series print additions of them.  

And then the primary   is what I realized, like, my most common feedback from doing this for so long   is made x, love your stuff.   You're fucking awesome,   but I don't have a house   slash my wife doesn't want AK 40 sevens and hot women on the walls.   And,   so, you know,   otherwise, I totally buy your stuff. So,   you know, I'll show this here. You're not gonna be able to, you're not gonna be able to see it really at all. I don't think.  

[00:39:45] ODELL:

Yeah.  

[00:39:46] Madex:

But,   so   this is, I guess,   jokingly I can say it's madex to go.   So,   you you don't have a house? Well, don't worry. I got a whole suite of all this kind of awesome stuff,   that you can load up on and, you know, take art on the go. Because No, it's an addition to it. It's not like a pivot. It's an addition to it. No, it's, I mean, it's a pivot as in like the art is just got to become more fucking scarce because it takes so much of my time.   And not only that, it's like, it's,   it's just   you you when you start   putting energy into a painting that's gonna take, like, 20, 500   hours to complete it or even a 100 hours or even, like, a 10 hour one or even, like, a 5 hour one.  

And   if you   you like, every single thing I've ever fucking made, I had no fucking idea if anyone would care at all.   You just kinda like try something   and you make something that you want to exist and then you put it out there. So like all for for example, like on the website right now,   I think there's a couple pieces on there that are like the best fucking things I have ever fucking made.   And they were put up at at same   size, same amount of time,   same detail as other pieces that sold in 30 minutes.   And they've been sitting there for 8 months. Right? So, you know, I think they're sick, but, like, I guess, I don't know. You just you gotta find your market. So it's really difficult to, like,   produce really big, amazing stuff   when you have to manage, like, your monthly cash flows and your expenses and everything. And I, you know, I can't like I got I got to keep the electricity going. And I gotta, you know,   hopefully never have to sell Bitcoin ever again, because the last bear market was horrible.  

And so the idea is basically to cash flow the business with with the jewelry,   and then that kinda buys me the time to be able to really, like, make some fucking meaningful   large scale work,   and and be able to pro provide that. So  

[00:42:07] ODELL:

I, I   that. I,   that makes that that makes complete sense to me. I mean, it's it's as someone whose income is also   very much tied to Bitcoin,   managing liquidity in a bear market,   when your income goes down at the same time as your savings   is   is quite brutal.   And   I I don't think people really appreciate it until they live it.   And,   so as a result, the goal is always to try and increase cash flow as much as possible, reduce expenses as much possible to give yourself some look at room. Yeah. I will say, the proof of work that you put into your into your art   is is very evident, and I'm not, like, an artistic eye. I don't I don't think I'm, like, particularly artist I just think it's badass, but I also,   like, you can feel it. You can feel that it's different   than a lot of the art you see out there. I mean, most art does not   even come close to separating me from my sats,   and you come much closer. It is a funny dynamic with Bitcoiners, specifically with the 1 on 1 pieces,   because there are a couple on there that I really want.  

And it's kind of a   I'm in a Mexican standoff with the other Bitcoiners that are aware of you. Because if Bitcoin   if Bitcoin plumps, if I can get in there and buy it   before someone else does,   and it's like so there's definitely at least there's at least a dozen other people that probably have their eyes on the same piece of art. Right? And we're all Yeah. We're all using the same savings mechanism,   and we're all pricing it against the same thing. And we're all sitting there, like, tomorrow, will it be gone? Or can I wait can I wait another day? I think I could wait another day. And it's it's kind of like the Mexican standoff. And meanwhile, you need to, like, pay rent and pay expenses.  

[00:43:52] Madex:

So you're, like, the 3rd character in the mic.  

[00:43:56] ODELL:

We're getting the crack on your mic again, by the way. I don't know. Oh, fuck. Here. Does it keep switching which mic?   You're good.  

[00:44:08] Madex:

I lost the crack. Oh, no. No. Hey. How's that? Check check. You're good. Did it, like, switch mics or something? Yeah. I don't know what it is. But   but, yeah, it is Well, it did last time, but, anyway  

[00:44:20] ODELL:

But I like the accessibility.   I because I wanna support you. I wanna look at the art. Right? This is another thing that's different with digital.   Like,   to me, like, art is something I should feel. It's something I should live. Right? And it should be Yeah. Like, on my wall proudly displayed.   And the prints just make it more accessible. Right? It it makes it the prints make it an impulse buy   while the one of ones  

[00:44:45] Madex:

with still having a limited edition aspect to it. It's not like you're gonna I mean, we're trusting you, but I assume you're gonna hold up your end of the bargain and not just like Oh, I could I could tell you I will. It's such a it is such a pain in the ass to fucking make those prints. I had an artist come in the studio the other day,   who was just visiting me because he wanted to see, like, the workspace.   And,   he saw, like, this whole stack   getting signed, and he was like, what what's going on here? And then I was like, this is the whole signing   process. And he's like, oh, cool. Show me your signing process.  

So I I showed him the signing process, and he's like, dude, people should be paying a $1,000 for every print with all the fucking shit you do. And then he was telling me that he just, like, fucking pencil squibbles and then ships his stuff off. And I'm like, okay. Well, you know,   I don't know. I I like It's a fiat mentality.   It's a fiat mentality.   You know, but what's weird is that there's, like, there's a balance to it too. Like, you know, I need to have some things   like that,   that are that are accessible as well. Like, I really fucked up in Prague because I didn't have anything at a lower price point.  

[00:45:53] ODELL:

So Yeah. You need the info. I I can't Yeah. I needed, like, a $30,  

[00:45:58] Madex:

$20, $40, whatever euro or,   crowns or whatever they call them, coronas,   print there, and I didn't have that. So next year, a 100%, I'll have that,   because you just   yeah. I don't know. Europe's a different place.   We'll we'll see what Lugano's like, but, like, you know, Miami, like, I   like, Miami, everybody was buying stuff and it was just, like, ripping and, you know, everyone knew who I was and it was fucking sweet. And I I guess I kinda, like, you know, you start off retarded no matter what you're doing. And so me coming into Europe to do the big exhibition   at BTC Prague,   I just kinda had, I guess, a little I was very humbled by the whole experience because people are the Europeans are, like, I don't give a fuck. Also, who the fuck are you? Also,   you know, one guy was, like, 40 he's, like, €40 for a t shirt. That's insane.  

And I because because everything's cheaper there. Right? Everything is, like, way cheaper here. Like, in America, $40 for a t shirt is fully normal.   Over there, he's like, that's fucking insane. And I'm like, well, you know,   I'm actually kind of giving it away to you because   it was silk screened in my studio in Alberta.   It was put on a fucking   airplane. It was flown across the ocean.   Like, a a lot of effort went into getting this t shirt here.   On the on the digital stuff on the digital stuff, I just wanted to say, like,   print, like, something I've been doing recently that's awesome is just printing   photos   from, my iPhone.  

Like, getting them printed as if they were shot on film. You know, you'd go and drop off a roll and get a deck of film.   Getting iPhone photos printed like that and having a deck of them. And, man, just and when you do that, just put the photo on your iPhone next to the printed photo, and you'll just a bazillion percent   for the final time realize why   all the NFT stuff is bullshit. Yeah.  

[00:47:57] ODELL:

Fair enough. I mean, look, I   historically, a lot of artists haven't even been appreciated till after they die. I mean, it's it's it's something that requires a lot of proof of work. People need to understand   like it's a it's a it's a long term grind, and I think you've been doing it for a while. And it shows and it's I think it   just for a little pep talk, a little therapy session here, like, I I think it's starting to compound and just starting to get real momentum.   I know specifically myself, you know, I I feel that,   which is one of the reasons   why I'm I'm willing like, you're   like, why I'm buying your art in the first place even though they're just prints right now,   and why I have you on the show.  

Because it to me, it's it's very unique in that regard. In in a world of a lot of   fiat trash and bullshit,   your art does stand apart, but it it it requires, like, a little bit of education and people to realize how much work has gone into it. So some people just might not be aware of it. Lugano obviously is a higher it's, like, one of the most expensive cities I've ever been to.   So we'll see how much success you have there, but, I mean, don't sell yourself short. Like, a lot of it is   is you actually putting value on yourself and,   and pricing things accordingly. And and some of these things will take some I mean, once again, like, on these one of one things,  

[00:49:18] Madex:

like, I'm laying in bed some nights, and I'm like, do I buy it? Should I buy it? Yeah, man. I see the carts. Right? Like, I I see the carts where guys, like, go and fill up carts and then, like, abandon the carts, like, in on the back end. I did that. So, like, there there's a bunch of guys who, like, every every, like, month or so, they'll add   these there's 2 pieces that I'm just, like, they're gonna fucking go at any second.   And I'll I'll see, like, the cart things from it being, like, that it was added to the cart, but then, you know, they didn't didn't make it to the checkout.   And I just think it's hilarious because it's like the same guys coming back. I'm like, I know it's gonna land at some point, like,   you know?  



[00:49:57] ODELL:

Okay. Well,   everyone, his art you can buy his art. You can see his art. Madix.art   is the website. You can pay in Bitcoin or dollars.   Just keep in mind, if you pay in dollars,   madex will always look down on you for it,   forever. Yeah. He but but you're welcome you're welcome to do it. He he he accepts Apple Pay. He accepts all the fiat methods.   But I I don't think I can look him in the eyes if I didn't pay with Bitcoin.   The   let's move on. So you're wearing this hat, which you designed,   I believe.   That's a it's a bull Bitcoin hat. You've been with bit bull Bitcoin for a while. They're one of your biggest supporters.   What what is your role at bull Bitcoin? Do you actually do any day to day there or you just more of like   a culture,   brand   piece?  



[00:50:51] Madex:

Well, I'm glad you didn't say mascot.  

[00:50:54] ODELL:

Are you a mascot?   No. Best mascot in this in the in the industry.  

[00:50:59] Madex:

Yeah.   Well, at Bull, like, bull before bull became the full bull, it was a fully functioning operating company,   and bull bitcoin   was   a rebrand   when Dave Bradley and I   joined up   with Francis. So   and, yeah, created the bull Bitcoin brand,   all the visuals,   and all the merch   and   basically ensure that, like, wherever bull Bitcoin shows up, whether it's our own,   like, our own staff or whether it's people who are clients or,   supporters   that everyone   has cool stuff, fly stuff,   you know, that we're making   producing   products that are physical for our users that,   are are   for awesome   and also have function to them.  

So that's basically any when it when things come down to anything to do with the brand,   that's basically my day to day stuff. Or, like, we did a bunch of events.   So do it doing the setup at the events   and, you know, making sure just the presence is felt,   all, like, the the   anything physical, basically, to do with Bull Bitcoin that hits the brand.  

[00:52:29] ODELL:

Are you on LinkedIn?  

[00:52:33] Madex:

Am I on LinkedIn?  

[00:52:34] ODELL:

Yeah. Do you have a LinkedIn account?  

[00:52:36] Madex:

I I think I used to.  

[00:52:38] ODELL:

Okay. Well, I hope you don't.   Everyone should delete their LinkedIn.   But if you did have a LinkedIn, like, your title, like   you're like you're like the most badass head of comms   at Bull Bitcoin or something. You're like Yeah. I I v VP of community.  

[00:52:54] Madex:

The title is, like, creative director, artistic director, like, you know, I'm not I'm not using Figma to design stuff, but I'm Yeah. Complaining about the stuff that was designed in Figma.   Boom. So full full blown, like, artistic direction   and,   you know, and really, I'm in the best possible position because   the only   in in fiat, you want brand to be more powerful than product, but in Bitcoin   and, you know, hard money standards, you want the the whole reason a brand exists is because the underlying product is fucking awesome.   So   it if if the engineers at Bull were all shit and everything Francis was doing, it was shit. Like,   it doesn't matter how, you know, they call it, putting lipstick on a pig. Right? It doesn't matter how much you fucking dress it up, how fucking cool you make it. If the product is fucked and annoying to fucking use and everything about it sucks,   Doesn't matter   how how many, you   know,   endorsements or collaborations   or how much cool stuff you make, like, it just sucks. So I'm really, really lucky in that way that, like, I see myself as a   extremely great designer and extremely great creator.  

And,   the team of engineers that Francis leads at Bull are the best in in Bitcoin   as just a user. Like, I can't get even get into the technical stuff of it because I'm a trailer park layman, but   just as a user every day,   running on Bitcoin, it's just like the best fucking product I've ever used.   You know, and it's got some stuff that that is like   that some people complain about because it's not like a Coinbase experience.   But that's what I think it is so awesome about it and, you know, our customer support is the best in the fucking world and, you know, especially if you're, yeah, you know, moving.   If you're using it in your everyday life and you need fucking help doing it,   it's just it enable it really does enable Bitcoin standard. And so my work to make bull Bitcoin as fucking awesome as it is and also   to believe myself it's awesome is only made possible by how good the stack is.  



[00:55:10] ODELL:

Yeah. I mean, it's one of the best Bitcoin businesses,   in the world. And, I mean, I would go even further and say it's probably one of the best parts of Canada, period,   is the existence of like, I've seen Americans, like, I just wish I lived in Canada so I could use Bull Bitcoin.   And it's very pure from a Bitcoin point of view,   in terms of a lot of the trade offs that are made are because Bull Bitcoin does not wanna take custody of your funds, because Bull Bitcoin wants to to reduce KYC exposure and personal information that they have on users.   And they they take a lot of pains to do this. But but once you start using it, and as an American, I've never actually used it, but I've seen the flow,   from my friends up north.  

Once you start using it, it's actually even more convenient of an experience because you're literally you're getting Bitcoin, and it's, like, shipping right to your to your own wallet that you're that you're holding yourself.   I guess recently, you guys have also shipped in France and Costa Rica.   Francis kinda just, like, scratches his own itch, and I guess he is French Canadian, so France made sense. And he's been living in Costa Rica, so,  

[00:56:15] Madex:

it meant a lot to them. Well, also France is primed. France is ready for this.   Right? Like, the the the France is a powder keg right now, and they don't have any,   they don't have any of the language. Like, there's no,   there's no Odell podcast   in   based on Paris, the French version. There's nobody talking about fucking freedom and liberty over there in it to the extent that we do with kind of our American ideals.   So it's   a and, you know, it's a fucking amazing place. So it it's really ready. It it's it's time. So it just kind of lined lined up perfectly   in just meeting and making the right connections and then kind of making the moves and wanting to expand into Europe for a while.  

And then, kind of this is this is the way it worked out, and it's perfect because, you know, we're all,   almost all of us at BOL are,   have some French roots of of some sort or another.  

[00:57:15] ODELL:

Love it. And I what I was gonna say was and then your branding is   I mean, you do such a good job. It's one of the strongest brands in the in the space. It just gets you going. It gets you very excited about the movement,   and and it just it complements the brand really well. So guys, that's bullbitcoin.com.   I believe those are the only 3 countries you support right now.  

[00:57:38] Madex:

Yeah. Costa Rica, France, and Canada.  

[00:57:41] ODELL:

Yeah. And it particularly the Costa Rica integration is really fucking cool because they have, like, this digital payment method called sim pay,   that most Costa Ricans already have that's tied to a phone number, and it just seamlessly integrates with that.   And there's   there's,   there's a circular economy down there called Bitcoin Jungle,   that Francis has been a key part of, where they accept Bitcoin. You can you can just live your life on a Bitcoin standard, and and bull Bitcoin has been a key bridging aspect there,   bridging between,   the fiat world and the Bitcoin world. So, I mean, shout out to you guys. That's been fucking awesome.  

The last the last major topic on my list,   that we've been talking about a lot lately is is so you're an artist. Right? And as an artist,   one of the the key   the the key dependencies   you have is is communicating with your audience and and   and being able to   distribute your art and on a global scale and and actually   connect with the people that are out there buying it.   And you've had a lot of difficulty,   with x and Twitter before it. Yeah.   And I'm I'm trying to get you I'm trying to get you to use Nostra more.   I really I I think there's something I   if we're successful on Nostra, like, it could be the single biggest,   like, the combination of Nostra with Bitcoin could be the single biggest boost for independent artists like yourself.  



[00:59:17] Madex:

I I think Yeah. I mean, it already is just with fucking zaps, man. Like,   just just with the zaps, it's already better than Twitter in a lot of ways.   I also find, like, a lot of people   complain about kind of interacting with it and, like, it's got you know, it's new.   But, I act I like like that feature about it, because I found that since I've   been trying to switch over to Noster and, like, be consciously thinking about it, k, and engage with Noster,   it's actually way more efficient because   I'm only able to engage with it for maybe 5 minutes before it kinda starts having problems.   And then and then I actually go and do something productive,   which I think is great for everybody, honestly. I think it's a feature, not a bug.  

And,   you know, I don't like, what really sucks right now is that   I'm, like,   the most important thing that Madex needs is just eyes and new people discovering it. And   the most frustrating thing is I put all this energy and all this time into building this   platform   on Twitter,   where   my   my success is entirely   at the mercy of their bullshit.   So their their algorithms   entire and and   it's better since the whole Elon takeover, but it's still just horrible, man. Like, you know, you I'm just not getting served anywhere to anybody   who who should be seeing me. And then what happens is I get reserved over and over and over again to people who already know me and care about me. And then,   you know, I don't want to there's gotta be a way to   push content without annoying   the the users that you, you know, the people who are already with you,   but that can reach other people because that's the only way I'm gonna succeed is I gotta have, you know, 10,000 people that will support whatever made x releases.  

And I don't know where the line is to like, I don't I don't know how to do that. Like,   don't piss off the current following and reach forward into new following. And, you know, it's kind of insane, man. Like, I put all that fucking effort into the manifesto   video. It's basically, like, it it's manifesto for a reason. It's, like, my life's fucking work at this point.   And   I think   it it got in the in the 1st week. I think it got, like, a 1,000 actual views. It got a ton of impressions, but, like, a 1,000 views. Yeah. Those numbers are pretty big. I make this fucking video   telling David Bailey to fuck off for trying to get me to do,   an ordinal project.  

And that got 200,000   views in 3 days.   So like some stupid shit post I made with a fucking broken leg and   it's just fucked, man. The incentives are totally fucked. And then something I actually care about that I want people to see that I put all the time and effort into, just like Twitter does not serve it, does not care. And then what happens is the ramp in Twitter is that, like, that when I released the manifesto spooling like crazy, it got like 20,000 impressions.   And then it got up to 50,000 impressions in like the next like batch of time. And then it just stops. Like Twitter just like fucking cuts it off.   Yep. And then just stop. I I don't know why. Stop serving your people or whatever. It's a blind fox. It's a blind fox. I have no idea.  

It's fucked up because my fucking life actually depends on people seeing that fucking video. Like, every part of Madex depends on that exposure.   And Twitter for some fucking and it's not even an addressable   thing. It's just for whatever fucking reason that nobody on earth, probably even the people that work there, can explain,   it just stops and they just fucking cut me off. Like, oh, 50,000 impressions that's enough for you. Like,   fuck off now. So then and then I'm stuck. And then like Instagram's the same way I was talking to some guys that do like social media work and they're saying it's all fucked right now. Everything sucks and especially with, like, all the spam from the elections and whatnot.   So I don't know what the solution is, but I'm gonna go in on Nasser. I mean, already, like, I thought nobody was following me at all, and then finally,   I, like, was patient enough to let the follower account load. And I think there was, like, 3,000 people or something. I was like, oh, holy shit. Like  

[01:03:48] ODELL:

Yeah. So I mean, first of all,   follower counts in general are bullshit across all of centralized social media. But on Nostr,   it is even more apparent   because there's no   objective   follower number. Right? I mean, you could spin up as many n pubs as you want and, like, when you press that's why when you press in different Nostra clients, when you press, like, how many followers does an account have Oh, it's different. Yeah. It loads different every time because it's literally just on demand, like, pulling from different relays or whatever.   Primal   has a caching server, so they try and give you the top level number because they have insight into the whole into the whole network, and then and then they cache it themselves.  

So that's why on primal, you'll see the highest follower account number.   But the point is is that it's transparent and no one can block you.   No one can,   you know, no one can feed you into   a   a   a black box algorithm. No one can kneecap you out of nowhere and just take away your livelihood.   And I think long term, Nostra will fix this. It is very clearly early days.   But similar to Bitcoin, it can't just be seen as this tech project. It's a movement of people. And, like, we have to will this fucking thing into existence. Like, we willed Bitcoin into existence.   We were successful. Now   I don't think Bitcoin I I think Bitcoin still needs more willing and motivation. Like, we need to make sure that Bitcoin is usable as freedom money and more people have access to it as freedom money. But we just straight up fucking willed Bitcoin into existence.  

And now we can will Nostra into existence, and it will get better over time. And ultimately, long term, it will fix exactly this issue. And you won't when you make a post, you won't have to worry, do I piss off the wrong person?   Do I if I link to this versus linking to this, does it fuck me over in the algorithm or whatever?   And   and I I think it frees people up similar to the way Bitcoin frees you up to focus on what's important in life because you don't have to be a financial wizard or hire someone to manage your fucking money. You can just stay humble and stack stats.   Nostra will do the same for communications in that   you don't have to spend   precious mental capacity and time   on, like, trying to develop a strategy that works with whatever Zuckerberg decides he wants to to do with Instagram at any given fucking time. And you can just fucking broadcast to the world. And if you have people that wanna consume that and want to interact with you, then they can without permission. That is insanely powerful. And but we have like, it it's gonna it requires people to fucking do this thing. And It's critically important, man. I mean, like, my my entire life at one point, like, the Elon shit helped a little bit with it, but  

[01:06:34] Madex:

I could have been axed at any moment. And then, you know, right now, the equation for Madex is just, like, reach new new person who's interested in what I'm doing and okay. You know, some supreme power decides that I shouldn't be able to reach people.   Like, the if I got banned even beforehand, like, I don't know what the option would have   have even been. Like,   get other people to tweet about the project. Right? Like, and then they get banned. So  

[01:07:02] ODELL:

no, but I'm loving it so far. What's almost even worse than the ban is the shadow ban where you're just you're reaching and don't even know. Yeah. And and so you're just you're just this product. You're just this product in this fucking wheel.   While   while on Nostr, like, you're a user. You're not a product. Yeah. You can actually   and you have control over your destiny. So what I would say to you is you want this ability to, like, separate between the ride or dies and the new audience.   Is,   for now, you know, I'm obviously   fucking   insane person and I just, you know, I spent a decade building   building my Twitter account and and putting all this effort and time into it, and then I just walked away and deleted it. I don't expect most people to do that. I just I knew eventually I was gonna say something or piss off the wrong person that I was gonna get kneecapped there, and I'd rather walk away on my own terms,   than wait just wait for that to happen. Like, fuck them. Like, they they can't have it. Like, I took all my tweets and I rebroadcast them on Noster. The only place you can read them is on Noster, and and Yeah. And fuck that shit. I'm gonna do it on my own. But with that all said, like, you can use Twitter and Instagram   for, like, your   outreach.  

The ride or dies are already on Noster. And I've I don't know who said it. I'm not good with quotes. But it's, like, a 1000 a 1000 good fans or 2,000 good fans, and true fans, like, real people Yeah. Yeah. Is all you really need,   to be successful in the short term, and and the medium term. They'll carry you through. They're the they're the ride or dies. They're the they're on Noster. So you give you you you focus on the ride or dies on Noster, and eventually,   if we're correct and Noster we actually build this fucking thing out, it will solve the mainstream problem for you too. And the beauty of Nostr   is that because the user gets to choose what kind of content they consume and have algorithmic choice, they can use algorithms, they cannot use algorithms, they can see what's going on.  

At some point,   you know, your nostril will be for both the rider dies and the mainstream.   And and the the actual end user can actually dictate how they want that experience to be.   And you can just ship and focus on what you love and focus on art and and focus on   on on beautiful things rather than all this fucking fiat bullshit. Like, that's the world I wanna live in love too. That's the world I want my kids to live in. That's the world I want their kids to live in. So let's fucking make it happen, you know?  

[01:09:31] Madex:

Yeah. No. I'm down, man. And, you know, so far I'm happy with it. And yeah. I think, like, it's hard to kind of explain   the equation, but it   in a way that carries the weight, but it's really, like, you know   I I actually don't know how stuff gets shared really. I know people retweet it with with Noster, but I don't think there I don't think there's anything that pushes stuff out other than that. Right? It's, like, fully  

[01:09:58] ODELL:

Well, yeah. So right now engagement  

[01:10:00] Madex:

that pushes stuff to new to new people. Like, when I post on Noster, how am I how do I know I'm gonna   new people are gonna see this? I gotta rely on, like, retweets? Or Right right now, there's only one real main algorithm,  

[01:10:12] ODELL:

and that's,   the primal trending list,   which is a very basic algorithm.   Everyone else, if you're not using primal or if you're not using the primal trending list, which is, you know, obviously opt in, you don't have to use it, is literally just like organic chronological   feed.   But what's gonna happen, and Primal's shipping this soon, they're calling it a feed marketplace, is anyone can build an algorithm, an open algorithm, that you can see how it works. And the users can choose what what feeds they wanna use and how they wanna use it, and it will help it will help with discovery. But a key thing to keep in mind here, and this was one of the reasons I I I really love Twitter,   was Twitter was always very open in terms of sharing.  

Right? So I always said, like,   Twitter users were undercounted because if you were reading,   you know, I mean, you you   fuck the New York Times. But if you're reading a New York Times article and there's a tweet quoted in the New York Times article, you're an indirect   Twitter user. Right? And I think that's what happens with nostril because you're seeing these walled gardens pop up. You I can't view your Instagram posts if I'm not an Instagram user. I can't view your tweets, your x posts, if I'm not an x user. But anyone who's not using nostril can use,   can can view your post anywhere. So they can be shared in signal or Telegram or matrix, wherever,   imessage,   and people might be seeing it and you you they're just like lurkers. Right? Like, most people are just viewers. They don't actually interact.  

So there's no way for you to know exactly how many people are viewing, but the key thing to keep in mind here   is nobody knows across like, when when when Elon says there's a half a 1000000000 Twitter users, x users,   we're just taking him out his fucking word. Like, there's no way to know. When you say the impressions on the Madex matters Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way to verify that. We can't prove that. And   so so with Nasr, it's gonna be the same way, but I think it'll be,   like, the true global square. The true place where you can post and anyone can view it anywhere in the world from anything,   and   and that will just compound on itself. Like, all the old stuff that you post will also get resurfaced and will get re shown and reshared.  

So I would just   I would just keep shipping. We're, like, working we're   we're working on Nostril, like, around the clock to, like, make this thing. Yeah. Not only censorship resistant, not only more freedom focused, not only have Bitcoin integrated, but is gonna be the most seamless experience, the the quickest, the fastest, the the most usable experience rather than the friction that we have right now.  

[01:12:49] Madex:

I I think it would be great to have,   almost 2 feeds   where   because I that equation of, like, tweet equals hopefully new eyeballs equals hopefully new traffic.   It'd be great to have 2 sections that, like, one is,   you know, all all like your   almost like a curated section. Like, these are all the best the best Nasser posts I've made. Yeah. And you can mark them to go to that side. And then this is just like everything.   Yeah. But I'm not gonna Maybe a lot of If you go to Maybe a lot of the mass posting stuff maybe a lot of the mass posting stuff is solved by these things that, you know, Noster will provide.   Because right now, the mass posting thing is just like it's a it's really an Instagram solution because it's like people are just fucking scrolling. The literally, the only way to get ahead is just like pure,  

[01:13:41] ODELL:

like, overload. You just gotta be, like, avalanching content into the platform. Bad incentive. It's a fucked up incentive because it's and then it just results in like a society that's fucking addicted to their phones and addicted to the social media. And people, like, wake up in the morning,   they, like, open x, and they're, like, what am I supposed to be mad about today? Like, what is the thing? Like, they literally roll out of bed, and they're, like, what am I supposed to care about today? Yeah. And it's, like, their Ikea production booklet when they wake up.   Yeah.  

Their   day.   Any anyway, sir, this has been,   this is Well, how much time do we have left? Because I have some important announcements. Yeah. We have I you have 10 more minutes. So I because I I have to Well, that give back to my family. What do you have for us?  

[01:14:28] Madex:

That's lots.   Okay. Main thing is, I'm going through this,   like, Mayday. Right? So I am Maydayx. I I go by that, and then that's how I've been pushing this obviously for a long time because it's,   me. But, like, the ultimate goal of the project is to be sort of a design house similar to a fashion company,   and to   be hiring, employing artists and other talented   manufacturers and trades people and aggregating it all to just do whatever it takes to make the best possible   fucking artwork.   And then in the same way that, like Christian Dior is the head of, you know, a fashion company, there there's like design heads.   Right now, I am the in charge of all of the design.  

And so going into this expansion,   I'm looking to hire somebody   that is a project manager.   I saw somebody ask in one of the comments somewhere was like, why don't you have a manager?   Well, actually,   I think the time's come that I actually need one.   So I'm just putting that out there. I don't know if anyone is insanely capable at getting stuff done. It's basically the job offering.   I'm looking for someone to work full time with Madex. If you're not in Alberta, possibly move to Alberta   for this position.   And it's essentially the next step because I   made x I'm pretty well one man band man with like some help here and there and, you know I bring people in when I need to but   it's a lot and my specific talent is design   and marketing and that's what I need to be focused on and I need someone to come in and help me with logistics.  

So I'm, I'm searching for that.   And then I also just kind of back when you're telling me about like,   not doing the NFT stuff and not doing,   you know, the ordinal things and all of that. I mean, really the only reason that that's possible   is   well, A, my ethical foundation,   but   really bitcoin   and bull bitcoin   and Dave Bradley   and all the other, like, major people that have kind of helped me get to this point.   And   majority stake Bitcoin,   putting me in a position that I can actually tell like turn down an offer like that,   and sleep at night and feel happy about it.  

Like the recently there's been some drama with the whole mempool thing.   And, you know, I don't, I don't know the ins and outs of it, that at all, but from the surface level,   like where, where we're all, all us Bitcoiners are really busy huddling and we're not putting up our money to this kind of stuff. And crypto has infinite money and they're gonna put it wherever the they want. And so like my comment on the mempool thing was, hey, if if y'all didn't want this to get fucking,   co opted, obfuscated, like where where was the Bitcoin money then?   Like where where was where was the money from Bitcoiners   that gave them put them in a position to say, go fuck yourself, crypto. We're not gonna get involved in it.  

I don't know.   And I again, I'm not clear on that whole situation, but it's just kinda something I think about. And, as a result of that, like,   it's really important to me that Madex inspires   another generation of artists slash   that Madex can reach artists, creators that are outside of Bitcoin and kind of show them that their work and their talent will be recognized and well respected   in the Bitcoin world. And also, I just as for myself, I wanna be able to sell fucking   I wanna be able to buy, I mean, cool stuff,   from other people, other creators, other artists. I have an art collection of myself coming together, and, also, I'm always looking for stuff to get made that's fucking awesome.  

And so I really hope the success of Madex can just be this kind of beacon that pulls more operatives,   more creators, more builders into the space,   and have them, like, making really amazing stuff because,   you know, I'm I'm doing the best I can. I'm trying to find tricks and ways to get better and improve   and   you know? But really, I'm shit compared to what any talent that's out there. It's just like people need to find a place that they can kinda serve it to. So I hope that Bitcoin is that place, and I hope Madex   brings people into into our world.  

And, and for artists and creators,   I've been noticing a lot that, like, there's kind of a whole mustardy thing around money and making money. And I think that it's really important for anyone in the space to   really   be a 100% happy with making money and not be fucking weird about it because accepting capital for your labors and for your worth   is the highest fucking honor that there is. For you to produce   something of high enough value that someone else in the market is willing to part to do business with you and to exchange with you   is just absolutely fucking beautiful. And it's been getting a bad rap because of how Fiat fucks all of that stuff up. Like,   it how how hard money works is that those who are most valuable to society are the wealthiest and those who can help produce the much and, you know, in in in ensure the most forward movement are celebrated.  

But in Fiat, it's those who are the most treacherous.   And that's that is kinda what gives us all this bad taste about making cash. So I don't know. Any artists or creatives out there, like, don't be fucking weird about making money. Like, if you're good at something, never do it for free and definitely put a fucking price on it. And,   you know, move moving forward into this Bitcoin world, we'll really come to see that that, like, there's nothing fucking awkward about being really fucking good at something and then going to the market and and and finding a price.   And I guess that's my rant. Also, anyone,   especially you, Odell, come to fucking Alberta for the Bitcoin rodeo in July,   and I will feed you the best fucking steak you've ever had in your life. Let's fucking go.  

And Harry can verify this because he came to the rodeo in July.  

[01:20:57] ODELL:

Yeah. He said all my good things.  

[01:20:59] Madex:

Fuck. Yeah. So we're doing it again, and it's another opportunity to see Madex stuff. And then, obviously, Bitcoin Park,   there's gonna be about 20 or so major pieces at Park that can be viewed and checked out, and I'll be shipping you guys some jewelry and stuff too.   And I guess that's my I don't know. Did I make the 10 minutes?  

[01:21:18] ODELL:

I mean, you you kind of pushed it to the limit because my battery is also almost dead.   I thought you were a professional. My screen's gonna well, this was actually a 2 podcast day. I did Preston right before this podcast.   I went on his show. I've now that I have a kid, I have to, like   you have to do the time jigsaw puzzle.   You start to realize you start to realize where the where the priorities lie and   try and focus. I mean, time is like our is is legit   our most scarce asset. Everything else,   you can't buy you can't buy more time.  

[01:21:56] Madex:

It is, man.  

[01:21:57] ODELL:

Fiat has fucked up all of our priorities and how we do time management and I mean, that's another reason why like, I I can't have my kid grow up and,   like, see me addicted to fucking x. Like, that's just  

[01:22:11] Madex:

Yeah. It's what the fuck is that, man?  

[01:22:13] ODELL:

It's a sad it's a that's a sad experience, and I,   we we we we need we need to make the world better. It it's time is of the essence. We are. We already are.   Damn right. We are.   Madex,   pleasure as always. I look forward to kicking it in person sometime soon.  

[01:22:34] Madex:

Hopefully, before we get I'll be in Nashville in,   November. I'll see you there.  

[01:22:39] ODELL:

Oh, shit. Fuck yeah. Okay. So I'll see you soon.   And,   do you have any final thoughts, for our audience before we wrap?  

[01:22:50] Madex:

Do I have any final thoughts?   No. I think I kinda got everything out of the way. I mean, I can really go ranting, but I feel like I don't even start getting fired up until you're an hour I'm an hour and a half in.   I gotta, like, I gotta do, like, an hour and a half preload, and then we'll start the podcast.   But,   no no thoughts. I think it was, I'm really grateful for everything you guys are doing at at at Park,   for the world.   Also very happy to be able to call it a flagship gallery for Madex very shortly here.   And,   yeah, I'm really grateful   to Rodolfo   and Matt from Start9,   and I'm grateful for Harry. I'm grateful for Francis. I'm grateful for Dave. Grateful for   all the people in the space that are working so fucking hard to, really make this fucking Bitcoin thing happen.  

And,   it's been a long journey, and it we got a lot of work to do.  

[01:23:54] ODELL:

Fuck. Yeah. Let's get it done.   I,   I agree with you. I love the, like, the long 3 hour rips, so we'll make sure we have one of those in our future.   And just just keep pushing forward, man. You're fucking crushing it. I'll see you soon. Peace. K. Thanks. Bye.  

[01:24:21] Unknown:

Our world is chaotic,   but life found its way by channeling energy to bring order to chaos.   It is in our nature to seek signals amongst noise because it is through communication   and exchange that we evolve beyond the darkness of chaos into the dawn of civilization.   Our evolution thrives in exchange of all the info we try to convey. They flow through to the marketplace and form the signals to regulate how we coordinate where things need to be. Price speaks so we learn to compete. This drives us to efficiently shape the world without voice. Now let the market speak. And so we build, we sow, we trade, we grow to meet our wants and needs. We specialize and drive from the mind, our creations into reality. We make progress in our process to get more for less, advancing society before the dawn of the age of technology that harness the energy to reach prosperity.   Our money embodies the power to reap what we sow, so the market becomes a channel for our collective energy to flow. When value is traded for value, we are aligned and so we evolve.  

This is how amidst uncertainty,   life continues to grow.   But the dawn of tech gave rise to light speed information exchange. So to transact fast, we further abstract money from energy constraints and became more aligned on a few large entities to coordinate trade, concentrating the power, resources, and authority to create   more and more of our money, distorting its signals, eroding its worth, and throwing us back into the darkness of chaos.   When we destroy   the mechanism of money, we destroy our ability to navigate through uncertainty.   And when we can't trade value freely and directly,   we must trust the few to govern the many. What happens when all our means center around an authority? Complexity builds, now coordination   relies on conformity. Observe our thoughts, the sense of dissent and coerce our actions. Can there be true innovation when there's no freedom of expression? What happens to our voice for one set shapes social discourse now whose ideas gets created and which problems get solved? If our progress depends on hearing many sides to resolve, then why would we suppress the voice that shapes how humanity evolves? When we cut off the perspectives   that make up society, we lose sight of the truth that forms our entire reality.  

Each person's contribution   builds up our resiliency. Did we forget these differences, are what strengthens humanity?   When communication breaks, our words turn to silence. Our acts become violent and the world is divided, and its darkness, truth is twisted by our pain and our bias, eroding the common ground, making us us more and more fragile.   To navigate uncertainty, we must solve for robustness,   so everything gets tried and tested by various efforts, until we discover the system that best coordinates us. Mirrors life's process of channeling energy to create signal from chaos.   In the era of technology, we transform energy into computational power to process the noise of free markets into structured order. And just by looking at numbers, we can derive how much power is required to reduce chaos and inscribe a flow of value for order verify that our transactions happened in line with shared rules. We don't need to seek trust when we can seek proof. It is real time consensus that our lines is to evolve. This is how, amidst uncertainty, our lives continue to grow when we have a hold our own rules, we preserve our own work, and defend our own voice, which lets the true market emerge. The strength of the design lies in each of our participation since we are the nodes of channel our energy end to end. As we claim responsibility   to uphold our own rights, we radiate the power that brings our truth   into light   and when that dawn of light touches all parts of the globe and it ripples throughout society and it returns us the hope that becomes the power that sparks humanity to thrive, the same power that fuels the creation of the mind. And when our mind and our money are truly set free and they transcend the limits   of past boundaries,   now knowing becomes owning and ideas become wealth. What happens now we can all push to expand the edges of our existence and assume evolution when things are the hardest. As we head for the light, we have to push through the darkness that is in these moments. We do what we do first. We take the chaos in the darkness and use our power to create.  

It is in these moments when we're all in alignment and afraid of a difference, ascends us to a highest and distant depth of it all. Though that hope is not gone, it is always the darkest before dawn.  

[01:29:32] ODELL:

Love you, freaks. I hope you enjoyed that rip. Sorry for the technical difficulties.   Once again, I'm on the road. I'm working on it.   But I appreciate you all, especially everyone who supports the show and comes and joins us in the live chat.   You guys make it all worth it. So thank you.   Next week, I have Adam back joining us.   I don't know exactly when. I'm shooting for Wednesday, 23rd at 1700 UTC, but that might change.   I'll keep you guys updated on Noster.   That outro, I did last week as well. That's tip n z. You can find her   on Noster   and probably all the other social media,   out there.  

But you just search tip_nz.   I think she's fucking crushing it, which is why I just doubled up on an outro.   I love you all.   Stay on the Stack Sides. Cheers.