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EPISODE: 135
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TOPICS: conference recap, mempool space transaction accelerator, live audience questions
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(00:00:05) Senator Lummis Strategic Bitcoin Reserve
(00:03:56) Introduction to Show
(00:05:50) Live Audience Chat
(00:06:16) Upcoming Guests and Political Discussions
(00:07:31) Personal Bitcoin Reserves and Strategic Planning
(00:08:01) Reflections on the Recent Conference
(00:09:05) Discussion on Trump's Bitcoin Speech
(00:10:10) Conference Highlights and Side Events
(00:11:12) Bitcoin's Political Landscape
(00:12:43) Strategic Bitcoin Reserve and Government Policies
(00:14:21) Security and Logistics at the Conference
(00:16:16) Bitcoin's Growing Influence
(00:18:00) Open Source Development and Legal Challenges
(00:20:11) Market Reactions and Predictions
(00:22:22) Global Impact of US Bitcoin Policies
(00:24:49) Bitcoin's Adoption Cycle and Future Predictions
(00:26:36) Conference Reflections and Future Plans
(00:28:04) Foundry's Role in Bitcoin Mining
(00:30:01) Bitcoin Park and Community Engagement
(00:32:01) Nation-State Adoption of Bitcoin
(00:34:05) Bitcoin Strategic Reserves and Policy Proposals
(00:36:12) Challenges and Opportunities in Bitcoin Policy
(00:38:52) Open Source Funding and Grants
(00:42:00) Mempool Project and Sustainable Funding
(00:44:44) Transaction Accelerator Development
(00:50:01) Technical Details of the Transaction Accelerator
(00:55:01) Ethical Considerations and Market Impact
(01:00:01) Future of Bitcoin Mempools
(01:08:01) Bitcoin Price Predictions and Market Dynamics
(01:18:01) Community Questions and Interaction
(01:28:01) Discussion on Liquid and Other Technologies
(01:38:01) Reflections on the Conference and Future Plans
(01:48:01) Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks
[00:00:05]
Senator Lummis:
This is the Bitcoin Reserve bill. I'm reading from the text in the senate of the United States to establish a bitcoin strategic reserve, a network of secure storage vaults, purchase program, and other programs to ensure the transparent management of bitcoin holdings of the Federal Government. My name is Cynthia Lemas, and I'm the Bitcoin senator. When Satoshi Nakamoto in January of 2009 mined the first bitcoin, he brought about an asset that will change the world. And this is our Louisiana Purchase Moment. This Bitcoin reserve that we're going to create will start with the 210,000 Bitcoin that president Trump just mentioned and pull it into a reserve stored in geographically diverse vaults.
And that's only the beginning. Over 5 years, the United States will assemble 1,000,000 bit point 5 percent of the world's supply. And it will be held for a minimum of 20 years and can be used for one purpose, Reduce our debt. This Bitcoin is going to be transformative for this country. As president Trump just said, we are printing too much money. We are spending too much money. We printed in 22 months during COVID the same amount of money that had ever been printed in the history of the will know more. With a strategic Bitcoin reserve, we will have an asset that in that period of time before 2045 can cut our debt in half.
[00:03:57] ODELL:
Happy Bitcoin Monday, freaks. It's your host, Odell, here for another little dispatch. The show focused on actionable Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion. It has been 2 months since last dispatch. Honestly, I've been focused on a lot of important shit, and I didn't have a good dispatch to do.
[00:04:21] ODELL:
And I don't wanna waste your guys' time. So, today, we have a great great conversation. We got great people in the house. I got Wiz here. How's it going, Wiz? Hey. What's up, Matt? Good to have you in Nashville. Always good to have you in Nashville. I got Soft Simon here. How's it going, Soft Simon? Great. Or just Simon? How's it going, Simon? Yeah. It's great to be back in Nashville. You can tell you hear how far he is? That's why we call him soft, Simon. Mhmm. That was center Lummis at Bitcoin 2024. Freaks, we we have your live chat up on this big ass screen. So we see your live chat, and instead, I'm just gonna keep our video big, and then I'm gonna switch the live chat when you guys zap large amounts.
So if you zap a large amount, it will be shown.
[00:05:16] ODELL:
But if you don't zap a large amount, it will not be shown, and we'll just keep the video. I think that's, like, a good compromise. What do you guys think? You think that's a good compromise?
[00:05:24] ODELL:
Of course. Because we can see the live chat.
[00:05:27] ODELL:
We do have a rider die freak, FOMO, both in the live chat, and he's actually, like, he's, like, he's, like, sitting, like, 5 feet away from us while he's chatting.
[00:05:38] ODELL:
So I'm not gonna take credit for that. I do see Lebanese Huddl in the chat.
[00:05:42] ODELL:
It was an honor and a privilege to meet him in person, and he deleted his Twitter.
[00:05:49] ODELL:
Who would do that? Yeah. I mean, you guys have a gold check on Twitter, but Lebanese Huddl deleted his Twitter.
[00:05:55] ODELL:
What does that say? There's something there. You wanna you really wanna talk about check marks? No. We we don't need to talk about check marks. I'm not even gonna hold it against you. But for the 3 that aren't aware, I did delete my Twitter. There's, like, 2 people that might not be aware of this because I do I'm a broke record about it. But, anyway, guys, this is gonna be a great rip. It was a crazy week. I'm gonna have more dispatches this week, starting with these guys. I wanted to start with the legends. I think I'm gonna have senator Hagerty of Tennessee on, probably the first politician on seal dispatchers is, like, a kind of crazy concept, to have politicians on civil dispatch, but the this is the new era we're in. I think I'm gonna have the Tennessee attorney general on, both Hagerty senator Hagerty, and the attorney general were here at Bitcoin Park. They talked about how they want FreedomTech to be, built in America and, FreedomTech developers to feel protected here.
The attorney general himself said he's willing to sue the federal government to protect open source developers. If he has to do that. He says it's a a a key aspect of his job. It's just a crazy concept. And, of course, we had senator Lummis of Wyoming in our intro talking about the strategic Bitcoin reserve, which I think everyone in this room right now. By the way, we have, like, a powerhouse in this room right now, on camera and off camera. We've all been building our own personal strategic Bitcoin reserves. I think that's just the coolest way of calling your own Bitcoin stack. You know, it's like It's a stockpile.
[00:07:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Like,
[00:07:48] ODELL:
you have a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Mempool has a strategic Bitcoin reserve. It's strategic, and it's Bitcoin. It's a reserve. Awesome. We're all trying to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible. So, guys, welcome to solo dispatch. It's a pleasure and honor to have you. Welcome back to Nashville. Dude, what a crazy week it was. That that was a hell of a conference. It's a ridiculous week. We're gonna talk to all things man pool, all things transaction fee market, everything you guys are building. But before we get there, let's can we just talk about this week a little bit? Because I I I feel like I haven't decompressed yet.
[00:08:29] Unknown:
It was all blur. I mean, there were some nights I just got zero sleep. It was, nonstop.
[00:08:36] ODELL:
No sleep?
[00:08:37] Unknown:
Some nights. Yeah. I mean, between, like, the you know, in between the the beef steak and getting the accelerator online, and then I gotta make my deck to go talk on stage. And So what'd you guys do what'd you guys do for Trump's speech? I mean, look. Regardless of what you think about
[00:08:54] ODELL:
former president Trump, he's gonna most likely be the next president of the United States, the most powerful country in the world. And he spoke at a Bitcoin conference. What'd you think of that speech?
[00:09:06] Unknown:
Yeah. It's, it's about time that the, powerful people are coming to the Bitcoiners. Right?
[00:09:12] ODELL:
I know my mic is very quiet, so I'm trying to enunciate. I apologize. They're both on a louder mic than I'm on, but I I took one for the team.
[00:09:32] Unknown:
Yeah. That conference was, like a blur. It was just a non stop. And and all the side events and the parties and the beefsteaks and the house gatherings. Are you even plugged in? I'm plugged in.
[00:09:45] ODELL:
I'm plugged in. I think I need to scream. I'm gonna scream this whole episode. We have, to the audio files to the audio files listening, we have only 2 cloud lifters at Bitcoin Park, and I gave them both to the guests. So I'm gonna be lighter on the on the mic. I'm gonna be way lighter on the mic than the rest of the people. So
[00:10:16] Unknown:
I'm just gonna Why don't you just take this one, and we'll show you this one so you don't have to yell. You wanna do that? Yeah. Should we do that? I mean, it's right here. And then something I'll just show this one.
[00:10:31] Unknown:
Yep. Good.
[00:10:34] ODELL:
Does this work? Is this better? Now I could be quieter. I don't know if I speak in all caps. Capsodel is Okay, guys. Is that better? Do you think that's better? What do what do we say, freaks? I I we were watching the live chat. Hates the loud mic. Oh my god. So much better. Okay. Should we start over? Welcome back to Scylla Dispatch, the show focused on actual Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion. I'm your host, Odell. Here after a 2 month hiatus, we're gonna be going going deep, deep on what happened this week and also going deep on what's happening with mempool space. Ride or Die Freak Wiz has handed me his mic because Bitcoin Park only has 2 cloud lifters. We're expecting a major Bitcoin bull market, so we didn't wanna spend $200 on another cloud lifter. So we only have 2 of those.
And this is wonderful. This is great that I don't have to scream for however many hours we go for. We are gonna be going deep. I hope you guys enjoyed senator Lummis as our intro. To me, that this is unreal. Like, she was she she graciously came to Bitcoin Park, and it wasn't the first time I met her, but, she's on a mission. She's on a mission to to to make Bitcoin the standard. She is truly our Bitcoin senator. It's weird to be involved with politicians. I will say that, once once the open source developers open source Bitcoin developers started going to jail, I I realized we really have no choice but to play the game. And it's all kind of accelerated quite quickly.
I know some people will not forgive me for that. But to me, it's like, if if not us, then who? So so, Wiz, when you're when you're when you're thinking about so, I I mean, let we gotta talk about Trump. We gotta talk about Trump just real quickly. Talking about Trump. And then we can get into it. I mean, it's Monday. Trump spoke on Saturday, epic win 2024. The likely future president of the United States. What'd you what'd you think about that speech?
[00:12:48] Unknown:
That was, very surreal. It was intense to be there watching him. Like, basically, like, the most powerful guy in the world coming to our party. And literally, I'm on stage, like, right before Trump is. Like, in what timeline does that make sense? And, yeah, just seeing the whole experience, like, backstage too, Seeing, like, the Secret Service Army with all the machine guns and everything. I mean, that that's what you don't really see. Where were you backstage during it?
[00:13:15] ODELL:
Well, I was I was backstage a couple hours before Trump went on. And they were back there? Oh, there's, like, very You were like, do you know who I am? I run the mempool.
[00:13:23] Unknown:
They,
[00:13:25] ODELL:
they let me on. Yeah. You're like, you need your transaction accelerated like I'm your guy.
[00:13:30] Unknown:
There was, there was some very interesting things. Like, right before my talk or a couple of talks with when I was Max and Stacy Kaiser were on. Yeah. And after they finished their talk, Max tried to take a candy bar off of this table. Oh, that's his candy bar. That was Trump's candy bar. And all these secrets have been like, no. No. No. You can't touch it. You know, I guess they're worried about someone putting some poison candy bar there or something. No. No. No. He has you know how, like,
[00:13:53] ODELL:
musicians have this too? It's like they have their rider in their contract about what they need if they speak. And his rider was like well, from what I've heard, his rider was like a couple bags of Lay's potato chips, like, a couple Hershey bars and some gummy bears. Like, that was and, like, those were his. Like, you were A Diet Coke or something like that. Yeah. You weren't allowed to grab those. Yeah. But Those were his. It wasn't like a security issue. Like, those were his that was his food. He were trying to take his food from him. I don't know. I've never seen so much security because he had, like,
[00:14:27] Unknown:
what, Trump's security and RFK security and Elon's security and all the private security. I mean, Elon didn't show up. You heard what happened with Elon. Right? Tell us.
[00:14:36] ODELL:
I mean, so I was I was the hour before. Right? Like, I was on the live desk during the delay, streaming out to, like, millions of people, talking to them about what happens next. And we were expecting a special guest. That the special guest was gonna be Elon. And, supposedly, Elon, like, flew in, descended, and then he went into, like, the descent pattern like he was gonna land, and his security was on-site, and then he took back off. Like, he never landed, and then just went to Memphis, Tennessee. So he trolled the future president the likely future president of the United States. Why would he me personally, as someone who deleted my Twitter, many many might know.
Many might not know, but I I did delete my Twitter. Tell us, Matt. All caps. You know he means it. Thank you, chief White. I was just really excited to comment afterwards
[00:15:38] Unknown:
on the livestream. That was so cool because it was like, all of a sudden, all of a sudden just put Odell on, and there's probably millions of people watching the livestream. And I'm like, alright, this is Odell's time to shine. I was I was like, I was did alright. I hope I made people proud. Oh, yeah. I tried my best. I retweeted your I know you can't see it since you don't have a Twitter account, but I retweeted it. Send me screenshots. I would love to see. You got this, beautiful grin on your face. Oh, I was so happy. You're so happy. Moment.
[00:16:05] ODELL:
I look, I think people take this a little bit too seriously. I mean, look, I have friends in jail that I would like to be out of jail. I think the stakes are quite high, but also at the same time, like, it's fucking insane that, like, at a Bitcoin conference, we have the likely next president of the United States coming to speak. That that is unreal. Like, even a year ago, you wouldn't expect that. It doesn't really matter what he says to me. Yeah. It Doesn't really matter what he says. Bailey is a g evil genius. Evil genius. Yeah. Got the president
[00:16:40] Unknown:
and, like, 10 senators
[00:16:42] ODELL:
to just come to our Bitcoin party. We had so many I mean, I will say, personally, I know senator Lummis. I know senator Hagerty. I know senator Blackburn. Those are the 3 senators I know. I didn't I didn't realize you were such a statist. They care. No. No. Well, senator senator Hagerty and senator Blackburn are state of Tennessee, and the Tennessee politicians, they actually I think they actually do care. Like, they want Tennessee to happen. Senator Lummis, I has been a big corner for a while, and and
[00:17:16] Unknown:
I do think she has her back. Now Lummis is great. I have this, photo of her. She tweeted, it's in her office where she's got mempool up on the TV in the office and all the staff around it with, like, pizza or something. And, they're getting a a like a class on how Bitcoin works using mempool space in her office. Yeah. There you go. I mean, look. Really? I think Bitcoin doesn't need politicians.
[00:17:42] ODELL:
But if you're an American and you're a public Bitcoiner and you're trying to build and support Bitcoin businesses, like, it's it's a massive positive sign. Like, you you need to it it is important to work with them, and they can be important allies. Oh, absolutely. You gotta you gotta have the government on board for as long as possible
[00:18:05] Unknown:
for the highest chance of success Exactly. Of the Bitcoin movement just winning against fiat. Right? I mean, that's what we're all trying to win
[00:18:13] ODELL:
is defeating the money printers. Yeah. And, I mean, I wanna free the samurai devs. Like, I think I think they they shouldn't be in jail. I think they're clearly not money transmitter businesses. And I think that if you look at open source development right now, the main thing open source contributors are thinking about is legal liability for open source code. And I think the issue that we see right now in America and across the globe is that these rules are very vague because we've never seen this before. We've never seen the ability, for people to use self custody open source software, to send money around the world, and those that type of software should not be treated as money service businesses.
So it it's an education element, but I think also it's a it's a chance to explain to politicians why encouraging and facilitating and making it possible for open source projects to flourish in your jurisdiction is good for is good for your people and is good for the people your constituents, for the people that you work with. Right? And and I I think we're starting to make real progress there. I think this conference was a major part of that. I think Trump's speech was largely disappointing for a lot of people. I think most of us probably haven't listened to a full Trump speech before, and that is probably why.
He did say that Bitcoin was gonna surpass gold in value, which is an insane thing for the future president of the United States to say. Or, like, at least it would have been the same a year ago. Now it's just what they say, I guess.
[00:19:57] Unknown:
It's it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Whatever the president says, he, like, even he makes some kind of promise that he's gonna do something. Even if he doesn't actually do it, the market's gonna move so strongly on that announcement.
[00:20:11] ODELL:
Well, that's the cool part. Right? It's like it doesn't require you to believe in the promise. The one promise that I hope to see, and he recommitted it, is is commuting Ross's sentence. On day 1? On day 1. And I think an important important thing to keep in mind there is that this is not a pardon. He's not saying he's not guilty. He's just saying that time served is enough. But 15 years, a lot of time in solitary confinement is enough, and that we should commute him day 1. I think that's important, but we have to rely on him for that. We don't have to rely on him in terms of him saying strategic Bitcoin reserve or him saying that Bitcoin's gonna surpass gold because that actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Like, he's only like, if he does win, it's 7 months from now, like, that he becomes president.
And the market's gonna I think the market is gonna react to this in a It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt. It definitely doesn't hurt. President to be pumped. No matter what, it's just an it's just like an unreal experience. I thought they did a decent job, with the open source stage this year. I thought HRF leading it was a great great
[00:21:22] Unknown:
great move. It was almost as good as when you ran the open source stage. 1st year that I didn't run it.
[00:21:30] ODELL:
So I'm I'm glad it was in good hands in that regard. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm quietly bullish. You guys can call me status. You guys can call me Illuminati, whatever. Like, I I wish you guys were doing it instead of me,
[00:21:47] Unknown:
but, someone's gotta I'm bullish. Get involved. The re reality is that the rest of the world is also watching what US is doing. Exactly. Because US is the biggest economy, and everyone's just following what you when US is going after Bitcoin or shutting it up, banning mining, whatever, all all the other countries are gonna do as well.
[00:22:04] Unknown:
So That's true. Like, if you look at Japan, they Yep. Are so into shitcoins and web 3 and d five, whatever. You know? Like, the government approves Ripple, but nobody's really supporting Bitcoin in Japan. So now that Trump is talking about Bitcoin Reserve and things, it would be great if Japan copied them. Right? Yeah. Japan just copy first. Right?
[00:22:26] Unknown:
Okay. I saw the headline news, in a Swedish newspaper yesterday saying Trump promised to make a strategic Right. Bitcoin reserve and make US the Bitcoin capital. So you're gonna have a lot of people, voters and politicians saying, hey. We don't wanna be worse.
[00:22:42] ODELL:
Right. It's gonna it's gonna have yeah. They have to catch up because they're gonna see the industry just moving to US and and feel everyone's just left behind. It's a weird situation to be a part of, to, like, witness. I mean, well, like, 3 years ago, we were excited about the president of El Salvador, a country of 6,000,000 people being, like, we're gonna adopt Bitcoin.
[00:23:02] Unknown:
And then and Now it's America. My beer. I'm gonna buy all the Bitcoin. 3 years later.
[00:23:08] ODELL:
And then people are, like, oh, we're disappointed. Like, RFK was, like, he's gonna buy 4,000,000. Senator Lummis said 1,000,000 Bitcoin.
[00:23:16] Unknown:
1,000,000 Bitcoin over 5 years. There's an infinite amount of money at the Federal Reserve.
[00:23:21] ODELL:
Sure. It's it's micro strategy with the money printer. But do you think what Trump said he actually believed was someone just told him to say this because Bitcoin is gonna be happening. Yeah. Sure. But it it become once again, I think it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? It's like so Trump says it, and then, like, Trump's alkalites, like, all the podcasters and everything. Right? Like, they're like, oh, we like the coin now. Trump likes the coin. We like the coin. And then all their audience is like, oh, oh, podcaster said Trump likes the coin. I and podcast likes the coin. I like the coin. And then Trump's like, oh my god. My people like the coin. I like the coin. You just go full circle. And then all the other countries are obviously all watching it. Money manager, all watching it.
[00:24:03] Unknown:
He once again, he said that Bitcoin's gonna surpass gold. And, which is crazy. Works, right? Fiat is just a decree of the government. So if Trump is a president and he says Bitcoin is amazing,
[00:24:14] ODELL:
then it's true, Right? Yeah. Like, Bitcoin is amazing. It. It's like, oh, well, Trump said it's legit. So, alright, let's get some. Yeah. Once again, I don't think it's necessary. Like, I don't think Bitcoin needs the permission. But it's pretty darn hard. Yeah. I think it accelerates things.
[00:24:30] Unknown:
I think it accelerates things. Are you are you interested in accelerating things, Matt? I I think
[00:24:37] ODELL:
I think when you think about it, like, if we have I mean, look. I said on the stream. I said on the stream that I'm a single issue voter. My my single issue is freedom. And I have never had a presidential candidate in my lifetime that has run on that, and I hope that changes soon. I don't think Trump is that candidate. I'm not gonna come out here and be like, I'm incredibly pro Trump. But I do think it was a paradigm shift. I think it is underappreciated. I think we're gonna look back in 20, 30 years and be like, that was the moment that a lot of things changed. And I think it's just part of Bitcoin's adoption cycle. And I think that is particularly when you have a current US administration that is incredibly hostile to Bitcoin, that is incredibly hostile to Freedom Tech, that is incredibly hostile to open source developers, and particularly as an American Bitcoiner that is heavily invested in the space through 1031 and through my work at Open Sats, which I make no money on, but I spend a lot of time on, and time is the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin, is incredibly optimistic. Like, it is it is what you wanna see. Like, I don't wanna spend I don't wanna spend the next like, it's hard enough funding FreedomTech without a hostile administration, without a hostile government. But you add a hostile government to it, it makes it so much more difficult.
And so so for those incentives to align and to have him at the conference, to have the many senators at the conference, the many politicians at the conference that understand the incentives at play, that understand that if we want the next great American century, we we need to be pro innovation, that we need to be pro Bitcoin, that we need to be pro open source is incredibly bullish. And, like, that's just a pragmatic view. That's not you know, plenty of people are gonna accuse me of Coke. Like, it's like ridiculous. Whatever. I'm I'm glad you guys are the are the first the first, civil dispatch after this week because
[00:26:51] Unknown:
it's pretty crazy. I'm seeing it seeing a very important question in the chat.
[00:26:56] ODELL:
Yeah. Let me pull the chat back up. You didn't zap enough, by the way, but I'm still gonna pull the chat up. What thoughts on country music? What booth booth stood at you at the conference?
[00:27:07] Unknown:
Is that the important question? It's the light latest one without zaps.
[00:27:11] ODELL:
I have a question for Simon. What was your favorite part of your visit to Nashville, chief White? Pancake Pantry. Really? You like pancake pantry? I feel like it's a little heavy. It is. You know? Like But I'm very rarely in the US and Nashville and Big pancake pantry guy? Miso. Okay. Pancake pantry. That was Simon's favorite thing. What are your thoughts on country music since, project 2 product, a zap 420 sets? What? My thought on country music? I like I like the You like the honky tonk, like the country music? Music.
[00:27:49] Unknown:
What booth stood stood out? Well, I think the foundry booth stood out. It was in the middle and was largest.
[00:27:54] ODELL:
That's true. They had a very nice booth. So I mean, I think foundry in general is doing a really great job. Yeah. Like, to me, Foundry was always the evil empire until, like, couple years ago.
[00:28:04] Unknown:
Foundry evil? Why? Barry Silbert,
[00:28:07] ODELL:
segwit 2 x. Well, that's Suits, KYC, Miners. VCG, and and historical We're the owners of Foundry. I don't know. I my point is feel good to me. My point is my whole point is that they've they've become the leading by example, like, what you wanna see actually. Like, I my my whole point was that my opinion of them has completely changed. There are a lot worse mining pool,
[00:28:35] Unknown:
operate like, you you could be so evil as a mining pool operator. And they're cool. You know, they started by giving us a grant in the early days to develop a lot of mining related functionality in the Mempool open source project. And then slowly over the years, we developed the transaction accelerator together with Foundry and then to launch it, you know, wide open to the whole world. I mean, they're great. And
[00:28:56] ODELL:
maybe I'm biased, but I think you'd be a lot worse. Not gonna name any names, but No. No. I think they're crushing it. I I I I would go further than that. Like, I think they're just I think they're leading by example right now, and I'm incredibly impressed with what Foundry is building out. I mean, Foundry recently released their open source funding program, where any minors of Foundry have a drop down, and OpenSats obviously included. We helped iterate and test out that implementation with them. But they can do a drop down, and they can pick how much of their rewards go to open source development, in a very low friction way, which is fucking awesome. I mean, I think they've led the way with Stratham v 2, which I think is incredibly important for the space.
And just more and more, I'm just impressed with what Foundry is building. We had a bunch of the leadership here at the park this week. By the way, Freaks, I know I've taken a break from dispatch. Look. It's been the summer. I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna burden you guys with bad conversation. I just I want good conversation only on dispatch. If you're listening to me in your ear, it should be worth it. We have a bunch of great conversation that we're working on producing, that will be published to the civil dispatch feed, throughout the week. But we had just a who's who of of of both industry leaders and local politicians while we're on it, that were here.
And they will they they will all be broadcast feed. I had Michael Sailor himself came to,
[00:30:40] Unknown:
Bitcoin Park. Were you guys here for the Michael Sailor concert? Sure, and it was super cool. Did you enjoy it? I I really enjoyed it. See Michael's sailor up close, and you had a very interesting Packed house. Yeah.
[00:30:51] ODELL:
Packed house for for Michael. It was pretty funny. I think he's you know, I've, there's a lot of mutual respect there. We've had a lot of productive conversations recently. I thought it was kind of funny that, you know, when he walked in, like, the governor was speaking. So he was, like, 2nd fiddle. I don't think that's he's used to that. Like, the governor's security detail, particularly after, the Trump incident a few weeks ago was very serious. They they were serious people, and they they he the governor was number 1. Michael was number 2, and Michael had to come second. But that was a great conversation. That will be posted to the feed.
But yeah. Oh, yeah. We have MC in the chat, and also, like, Louie on the couch, like, 5 feet away from us, saying that it was an awesome time at Pickland Park. So Yeah. Pickland Park is obviously
[00:31:48] Unknown:
one of the better park better parts of Nashville.
[00:31:51] ODELL:
More of Bitcoin. Besides pancake pantry. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We got we got pancake pantry in Number 1. Park. Pancake pantry. Number 2. Close second. Close second, pick one park. Okay, guys. Okay. We talked enough about politicians. I do think shit is accelerating. Like, are is nation state FOMO upon us? Like, does things get
[00:32:12] Unknown:
I think so. I mean, El Salvador kind of started the trend, and now the US is gonna be the 2nd nation to do that.
[00:32:21] ODELL:
What about I mean, there's other, countries that have quietly started a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean, you remember Butanj showed up in the bankruptcy proceedings of,
[00:32:36] Unknown:
True. But of Celsius and But I think when it comes to, like, really serious Bitcoin stuff, like the entire country adopting the Bitcoin standard or the US adopting this this, strategic stockpile, whatever.
[00:32:51] ODELL:
That's that's huge. Yeah. I mean, it's clearly not Germany. Germany Germany sold all their coin. Yeah. They just Right before all this shit happened. El Salvador has more Bitcoin than Germany. No. Okay. Can we talk can we talk I mean, while we're talking about nation state adoption, are you really a nation state that has a strategic Bitcoin reserve if you don't have your own hosted mempool instance?
[00:33:16] Unknown:
That's true. You can go to bitcoin.gob.sv
[00:33:21] ODELL:
to see the Bitcoin office of El Salvador's custom instance of the mempool open source project. And I love that they buy they buy 1 Bitcoin per day, which is, like, if if if you're a small country, that is the most meme worthy Bitcoin accumulation strategy. It's just it's literally just staircase. It just goes up constantly forever. It's just like 1 Bitcoin per day just
[00:33:46] Unknown:
up into the right. They're they're following your strategy perfectly. They're staying humble and stacking
[00:33:51] ODELL:
Stacking sets? They're stacking whole coins, though. They're they're stacking 100,000,000 sets per stack, but they're still stacking sets. I mean, one day, maybe we'll see I mean, the US government owns the dot gov suffix. Right? Oh, yeah. That actually So we might have bitcoin.gov
[00:34:08] Unknown:
is some MAMPUS empowered. Yeah. That's the truth. Ask Trump about that?
[00:34:13] Unknown:
I'm sorry. That's confidential. I can't review. Wait. Hey. He might be listening.
[00:34:18] ODELL:
Mister president, we would love to have bitcoin.gov, be a self hosted mempool instance.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
Yeah. That's, that's the dream, right, that the US does this strategic Bitcoin reserve, and they self host their own instance of mempool. And, they have a nice ladder on there too. Although they're probably different shape than a ladder or a stepladder. It's gonna be Just up. Just just like a hockey stick. It's a straight, I can say. I would say one thing,
[00:34:47] ODELL:
and I don't think a lot I'll ever win this argument with our politicians, but it is a little bit concerning that they're starting it with 200 k c's Bitcoin, which is, like, mostly Bitfinex's Bitcoin
[00:35:04] Unknown:
from the greatest rapper of all time. A 60102 attack. Right? They're gonna say, oh, yeah. We need to confiscate everyone's Bitcoin for our strategic stockpile. Yeah. I I Because they're hoarding Bitcoin. That's exactly what I would I would like a policy that said, if you seize Bitcoin, it has to be burned.
[00:35:21] ODELL:
They will never do that. I mean, the president is kinda set. They do burn cocaine. Like, they don't sell the cocaine, back to the to the market. They just straight up burn it, and you can prudently burn it. It would be good to see that. Short of that, it'd be great if we had a law that said, sees Bitcoin had to be donated to Open Sats. That's pretty good. I would like that. We probably won't get that either. I'm down for a three way split between HRF, Brink, and Open Sats. Like, I'd be cool with that as well. Probably will never get that. But, yeah, they're gonna start with the seized Bitcoin. That was a little bit weird with Trump. He was like, they took they took your Bitcoin. And they're like, yeah. And I'm gonna put it in the treasury.
He was like, he he he, like, almost was like, we shouldn't take your Bitcoin, but then he was like, no. No. No. But I'm gonna keep it. They took it, but I'm gonna keep it. But that was a little bit odd.
[00:36:17] Unknown:
I mean, it's it's kind of how the government would do a 6102 attack. Right? They would use their surveillance powers and use their monopoly on violence
[00:36:27] Unknown:
and say, you're a criminal. We're gonna seize your Bitcoin. Yeah. And now it's our big point. Bitcoin reserve. Yeah. Right? And everyone loves a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I love the terms strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean yeah. Do you get better than better than that they just sell just like the Germans did. Like, sell it and it distribute it among all the plebs. No. Just burn it. Burn it. Burning is distribution.
[00:36:48] ODELL:
Yeah. That's true. Burning is even better because you you take away that incentive. Right? They can't even use it. Yeah. I mean, one of the cool things that senator Lummis did say was that the strategic Bitcoin reserve can only be used for paying down the debt. You can't use it for a 1000000 different, government expenditures. Right? Like, you can't use it for war. You can't use it for, I don't know, what whatever, like, salaries for senators, shit. So I like that aspect. I like that you said you can only use it for that. So let's put more liens on it. Let's say, like, oh, you can't if you seize, you can't take it.
But I that'll probably never happen. Yeah. Like, donate Josh has got a good point in the chat. Donate the Bitcoin to Open SaaS. Never gonna happen, but a man could try. I make no money from Open SaaS, so, like, it's not it's not paying me. It's paying open source developers that need it.
[00:37:52] Unknown:
You give out any cool grants recently?
[00:37:55] ODELL:
Do we give out any cool grants recently? Yeah. We gave out a lot of cool grants recently. Well, you can go to opensats.org. If you go to opensats.org, we have a great blog that lists our recent grants. I know we gave, a long term support grant for Noster. And, by the way, I never really talk about individual grants and, like, the specifics about it. Grant recipients actually ask for how much money they want. If we had Jeff is on the NOSR Committee, he can see what other people ask for for grants, which is a concern. Right? It's like a corruption concern to a degree. I mean, I think we were insulated by that because OpenSats requires 5 of 9 board members to approve any grant regardless.
He asked for a lot less than, like, a lot of other people get. He's a humble guy. Right? Yeah. I mean, I was really impressed. I like, to the point where I was like, dude, you should ask for more. He's like, I'm I'm good. This is, like, a good amount. So I'm glad we supported him. We supported Hadelbad, who's awesome, also in the Nostra community. Those obviously come out of our Nostra fund, recently out of the Bitcoin the Bitcoin grants out of our general fund. We supported Enuance, which is a great Cashew project. We supported Blitz Wallet, fantastic lightning project.
We supported, VLS, validating lightning signer, which is the way to take, instead of lightning while it's being hot, they're working on making it, you can have your keys cold, and you can sign channel opens and channel closes, which I think is, like, quietly really important and impossible to monetize project because you need it to be open, and there's no way you can be in the flow of funds.
[00:40:03] Unknown:
That issue isn't solved yet with having cold storage on your lightning node running a running node, for example. No. You need to you need to have,
[00:40:14] ODELL:
you you need to have your keys hot right now. Like, all the routing nodes are all hot, which is crazy. Like, particularly as Bitcoin increases in price, it's more and more purchasing power are on these large routing nodes. Like, if you think like Asynx node, for instance. Right? Like Phoenix's node. Like, there's a shit ton of Bitcoin on that node, and it's all a hot wallet. And and back in our day, the rule of thumb was very simple. It was like you keep small amounts in the hot wallet, and you keep the majority in the cold wallet, never connect to the Internet. And lightning changed that, dynamic. It was like more and more money is in the hot wall, and you have no choice in validating, like, the Sandro's. Own personal lightning node, then you probably don't need that much liquidity. But, yeah, if you're an Yeah. This is for the routing. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. But let's say you have a point of sale
[00:41:08] Unknown:
system and accept only accepting, then you can use this kind of cold storage solution that and set rules on it that it should only sign transaction when you have in incoming transactions, for example. So you don't can't get hacked. Someone just drain all your funds because then some rule kicking that just blocks that.
[00:41:26] ODELL:
Yeah. I like that. But you need to have a signer that is able to do that. Yeah. And so that's what VLS is working on. I mean, at this point, OpenSats now is supporting almost 200 open source contributors.
[00:41:40] Unknown:
Did you ever, sponsor the Memploop open source project?
[00:41:44] ODELL:
Did you guys apply?
[00:41:46] Unknown:
No. I think opensas.org No. I think slash apply. I think when we were doing the grants and the sponsors
[00:41:53] ODELL:
was before OpenSats started. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and now you guys What year did you start? Now you guys are a sustainable Sats flow business. Like, we're we're, like that's what we're gonna talk about, I think. But you guys are actually still welcome to apply. Like, you are well within the mandate of of of open SaaS, which is an open source project. That funding for people. Yeah. Because you guys are ethical and amazing. But you I I don't think I I think the fact that there is a business model that exists doesn't preclude you from applying.
And and to be clear, 1031 is the largest investor of mempool. So I would recuse myself from that decision. And we have a full audit trail with all of our votes. But I I don't I don't think I think that's the goal. I think it would be great to have more open like, to me, the cool part about mempool Yep. Is that it's this beautiful dream of an open source project that has a path to sustainable funding that doesn't require grants. And I think that didn't exist before Bitcoin. And, I mean, I that's what we're gonna discuss. So let's talk about that. You have something to say before we talk about that?
[00:43:08] Unknown:
No. I think there's some open source projects you can monetize and some you can't. Like you're saying, if there's some VLS or You can't monetize validating Lightning signer. It it's if it's gonna be like a protocol level project. How do you how do you monetize
[00:43:25] ODELL:
separating keys from signing on a hot? It's like a library or a protocol
[00:43:30] Unknown:
thing. Even Bitcoin Core. I mean, you can't really
[00:43:33] ODELL:
you never monetize Bitcoin Core.
[00:43:36] Unknown:
And so if you're like an application, which is what mempool is, then I think you have a shot. And there's very, very successful open source companies like MySQL was acquired for a $1,000,000,000 or even, Red Hat Enterprise Linux was, like, 20 something $1,000,000,000. Yeah. But their model was, like, support. Right? Yeah. That's a valid business model for an open source project. I mean, we do that. We have an enterprise offering.
[00:43:59] ODELL:
Yeah. Lots of
[00:44:02] Unknown:
lots of customers actually on Mempool Enterprise now. Some you might have heard of.
[00:44:08] ODELL:
Chief White mentioned Shotgun Willie's. That's the best best best Texas barbecues in Nashville, and it's called Choco and Willie's. I like how it's the best Texas barbecue in Nashville. They're actually former Texans, and they moved to Nashville, and that's great barbecue. Yeah. I mean, there's certain projects that have a chance to monetize, and there's certain don't. And then there's certain projects that only have a chance to monetize because Bitcoin exists. And I would say mempool is kind of on the bleeding edge of that with the transaction accelerator. So should we talk about let's let's jump into the transaction accelerator a bit. Like, I it's now public. Right? Like, what was this? Like, 2 days ago? Yeah. So if we start at the beginning when Simon and I first
[00:44:52] Unknown:
cofounded the mempool open source project back in 2019, The mempool was empty, and we were just kind of developing the project in the early days. But at some at sometimes, the mempool would get congested, and we would suddenly get 9,000 messages from people who thought we were the mempool and ran the mempool and could magically confirm their. Account. Or just reached out for support because they were desperate. Right? Yeah. And so at some point, I'm like, oh, well, maybe we should just do that as a service and, like, charge the money to confirm their transactions. And so at the time, the mempool was mostly empty. Like Catan's famous tweet, you could always do one sat per v byte and get it confirmed in the next block. So why would you build a transaction accelerator? But we were always kind of ahead ahead of the curve in in the terms of the mempool stuff, Especially, like, the first few years of the project, mempool is completely empty, but we just kept building it anyway because we knew in the future it would be very relevant. And just like we know the accelerator is gonna be super relevant in the future, we've been building over the past past few years. Yeah. I mean, when did we start the idea for the accelerator? I guess it's 2020.
[00:46:05] Unknown:
Yeah. I think you started pitching the idea of building an accelerator. And I remember back then, I didn't think of any, like, way reasonable way to monetize the project because we have a no ad policy, for example. So we can't put any ads. We can't have any error. I like that. We can't have a mempool token. We can't have any of that. So I couldn't really come up with any great idea. And I think
[00:46:28] ODELL:
given all the messages Damn it. Can't have a token. Can't come out with any great idea. Store is donation
[00:46:34] Unknown:
based, maybe, like, grants based. But,
[00:46:37] Unknown:
And we did get all the grants in the early days that we could. I mean, the project was very popular as soon as the mempool got full, and and everyone was very generous. And we got grants from Spiral and, Foundry and Unchained and Blockstream and Gemini and, you know, everybody was was very generous and supportive of us. And I also contribute it personally. That's true. Odell is the number 1 The first one. OG sponsor.
[00:47:04] ODELL:
First one. Technically, Jameson sent first, but I paid a higher fee. But he's second. I paid a higher fee. Mine confirmed first. Nice. Yeah. You're Which is more important.
[00:47:15] Unknown:
It's because it's settled. Thank you for sponsoring the Memplo. You're welcome. I made it all possible. But actually, our biggest sponsor was probably Jack Dorsey over the years, both individually and Many such cases. Spirals, grant program. And then later, we made deals to power the, Bitkey wallet back end for the hardware wallet they developed. So cool that you guys know that. Yeah. And now we're just, you know, kind of doing mempool space for all of the the Jack Dorsey Companies.
[00:47:47] ODELL:
I mean, we have a slide when that we shared investors at 10:31. It was, like, different partnerships among 10:31 portfolio companies. And it's literally just, like, mempool in the middle, and you guys just have lines to Yeah. We have 36 portfolio companies, like, 34 of them. You have lines too.
[00:48:08] Unknown:
It's insane. But when people go to the website, they don't really see, the whole enterprise offering of it all. Like, the infrastructure that we have built up is, allowing us to provide this, like, reliable API infrastructure to a ton of companies and businesses like Bitkey for the wallet back end. And that's not, and that's helping us funding the, finance, financing the project. Right? And that's not really what a lot of people are seeing because a lot of people ask me constantly, but how do you make money? How do you guys make money? Because they only see this free available.
Right. Completely free website with no ads,
[00:48:45] ODELL:
with no service. It's what we use for the background of, so dispatch.
[00:48:53] Unknown:
Yeah. That's a nice, we made that for the Bitcoin conference last year, actually. We had that giant clock tower, and it was running this,
[00:49:01] ODELL:
circular clock face. And then you custom made this nice chat thing for me. I I think it's cool. I love it. I think it's great. By the way, if you're listening, I see we have a couple thousand listeners in the YouTube chat. If you go to nostril, the the live chat that is shown is the nostril live chat. So that's sidledispatch.com /stream. And if you go to sidledispatch.com, you have all the links you need, for everything. Yeah. So Bill is asking Bill paid a 1,000 sats for this question. So And he paid he paid with lightning, so we don't have to wait for it to confirm. Yeah.
[00:49:43] Unknown:
Can you send a 0 sat per v byte fee and pay the lightning invoice to get into a block? So currently, your transaction already has to be on mempool.space's mempool. So what is the fee button? And a 0 set per byte would not get in there. So currently, we're just running the stock bit by default. A 1 sapper byte, they could do that. That's correct. If you do one sapper view byte, you can get you can broadcast it directly to our node, and then you could accelerate. In the future, we'll probably expand the accelerator to do a little bit more,
[00:50:16] Unknown:
nonstandard stuff like I mean, that's fine. Like, they could pay once separately. You have the new, like, mempool policy of you can see BFP group Child pays for personal billing. Package relay. Yeah. Yeah. So you can actually have a 0 fee transaction that is getting bumped by a higher fee, and you can broadcast those 2 transaction together. And then suddenly the first one that's 0 set will be a valid Bitcoin transaction, and then you can accelerate
[00:50:40] ODELL:
this group together. Let's pull it back for a second. So there's there's currently 200,000 plus transactions that are unconfirmed. Right. Effectively, if you send a Bitcoin transaction, you're in a waiting list to get confirmed. Those that waiting list is mempools, and those mempools exist on everyone's notes. Right? And it's it's and, particularly, it sits on miners' nodes, and the miners are usually taking the highest fee transactions, are are are are are getting included in the next block and getting confirmed. You can imagine if you went to a restaurant, and the waiting list for the restaurant was based on how much you bid to enter the restaurant.
And that is what how Bitcoin works, and it's how we deal with scarce block space. So based on this concept, and based on the increasing adoption of Bitcoin, as per our earlier conversation, we actually have future presidents, likely future presidents, talking about Bitcoin strategic reserves. I believe this waiting list will never clear, and there will always be a forever waiting list. The beauty of this mempool accelerator is that if you are stuck in the waiting list and you send a transaction and you're you're, like, number 155,000 in the line, you can just open mempool.space in your browser, click a transaction, and it'll pop up a nice little lightning invoice. And you can just scan that lightning invoice, and you'll get into the next block.
That is fucking cool, guys. Well fucking done. That is impressive.
[00:52:20] Unknown:
It was a lot of work, many years of hard work to get to that point where, yeah, you can just push a button and and accelerate it to the front of the line. But,
[00:52:29] ODELL:
we got Cheapway with 21,000 SaaS. I'm gonna go back to the chat on the live stream. Boom. Done. That's awesome. Yeah. So the
[00:52:37] Unknown:
accelerator was something we built over many years. It was, you know, of course, developing the mining dashboard functionality, the block visualization, the block audit functionality. The block audit's key. Yeah. Absolutely. Because we have to implement the accelerator in an open and transparent way to pass our, you know, ethics rules. And so we did it to the best of our ability, putting everything in the open and making it fully auditable using our own open source software that we put out there so that you don't have to trust mempool space to not do any shenanigans. You can just audit the audit that we show on Emplespace.
And so, yeah, we got a question from Bill. It would be nice to send a coin joined 1,000,000 sat UTXL with a lightning invoice. If it's one sat preview, but it breaks out UTXO. Yeah. There's probably tons of use cases that you could, do with 0 sat
[00:53:37] ODELL:
0 zero fee transactions again. Right? Well, why don't they just do according to transaction when they pay 1 sapro bite and boom. Done. I don't understand the question. You'll have to ask, Bill. That. I mean, you I mean, you answered the question because he spoke in caps, which, I mean, says a lot just there.
[00:53:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I think he wants to keep it like a nice round number. Right? Like, sometimes when you look at coin joints, they're all
[00:54:01] ODELL:
one with the sets except for, like, one that had to pay the fees or It had to pay the fee. Right? So it kind of ruins a little bit of the anonymity set maybe? Yeah. I mean, I guess, but I think at the end of the day, you you pay yeah. Look. We had a Lebanese Huddl saying fantastic view. The the design is so it's exactly what you would expect. It doesn't require BTC sessions to do, like, a 2 hour video about it. Like, it would be the most boring video because it's so obvious. Like, you just go to the transaction at mempool.space, and you press the accelerate button, and an invoice pops up, and then you open your lightning wallet and you pay it.
Right? And I I think you guys should be commended on that. Like, it's just incredibly clean UX, and it did take a lot of work.
[00:54:45] Unknown:
And It's it's very simple, but it's a huge system underneath that took a long time and just getting everything to work and handle all the edge cases and the
[00:54:55] ODELL:
attack vectors and the way people can screw with it. Yeah. Can we talk about how it works a little
[00:54:59] Unknown:
bit? It's very simple. Yeah. It's a Rube Goldberg machine. There's this built in command in Bitcoin Core called prioritize transaction. So we're sending the transaction ID to the mining pool partners with the new fee fee rate. Right. And they just call Bitcoin Core and prioritize that transaction in their mem And then you pay the mining pool partners. And after the transaction is confirmed
[00:55:28] ODELL:
with whoever minds that we settle that, like, each month or so. Then you send them once a month, do you send them the stats or how does that work? Is that too much information? Should I just you kinda rolled your eyes at me. Yeah. I I think the agreements with the mining pool partners are all a little bit different,
[00:55:45] Unknown:
in in those business details. But I think under the hood, it's actually not simple. It's actually very, very complicated because we have to we have to do things like make sure we don't take money from North Korea. We have to make sure we don't accelerate transactions for addresses on the OFAC sanctioned OFAC list. Right? Right. We have to make sure that your transaction is not some kind of, denial of service transaction or an attack transaction or some kind of shenanigans. Yeah. We're we're working huge transaction and then they re make a refund
[00:56:24] ODELL:
or something and they just But how do they get a refund on it? Well, some people
[00:56:29] Unknown:
flashback. Some people trust unconfirmed transactions, which they obviously shouldn't, but they do anyway. And so Oh, so you could be the replaced by fee. There's a lot of shenanigans you can do with an accelerator. Be like a fake replaced by fee that when you replace by fees, like, actually 1 sapper buy and then accelerate it through mempool. There's a lot of attacks you can do, and so we spend a lot of time mitigating these things. And we don't wanna break Bitcoin. Right? I mean, if you if you call up all the mining pools and you say, hey. Give me Root on your block template generator so I can accelerate. It's a huge trust, and we can't you know, we take that responsibility very seriously. We can't So what do you say to people?
[00:57:05] Unknown:
And then the pricing model is rather complex. Like Well, yeah. How does the pricing model work? If you're a very if you're a Plaab and you have a regular transaction Yeah. It's, it's rather cheap. But, as soon as you're gonna do some huge JPEG or something, you're gonna have to pay a third charge for that stuff. So Well, because this transaction is larger. Yeah. So so you pay, like, a shitcoin premium kind of thing. Shitcoin premium. The shitcoin premium. Now we only do valid Bitcoin transactions, but That's Yeah. So what do you I mean,
[00:57:39] ODELL:
we're all friends here. What do you what do you say to the people that that, this is an attack on Bitcoin?
[00:57:45] Unknown:
If you're not attacking Bitcoin, what are you even doing with your career in this industry?
[00:57:50] ODELL:
Well,
[00:57:50] Unknown:
I have a way of steel manning. I think Wiz has his his way of, That's the quote of the episode. And I have a way of applying to this question.
[00:57:59] ODELL:
But Okay. Yeah. Simon, what's your answer? So, like,
[00:58:06] Unknown:
so my answer is that this was already taking place, like, for several years before we launched Accelerator. But it was unknown because it was all happening behind closed doors, dark man pulls, and nobody even complained about it because they didn't even know about it. They had no idea So suddenly we launched this world's first accelerator that is fully transparent Right. And auditable. Right. And people start complaining like this is something new. It's not. We're actually making, some progress in in this market. But as like if you're a Bitcoin purist, you could say that this should not happen off chain. We should all use the Bitcoin protocol. Right. Everything should go through the usual mempool phone. But you can go tell that to the guy that has a stock transaction, like a lightning close for, like, 6 months and tell that guy, just use RBF. He's, like, trying to deposit in fucking Cash App. But that's, like, the first Right. That's, like, the first reply. Oh, just use RBF. Right? What is it while it doesn't support RBF? Then you're fucked. Right. And this Or what if he's receiving a transaction from There's so many there's so many He's just, like, accepting a a transaction from some There's so many case cases and and like it's a very common thing with the multisigs and time locks like the lighting closures that you can't use RBF or CPFB even if you want to. If there's no anchor output for the right and close.
So actually off band fee bump is the only solution in that case. And you guys made it super transparent. So we're actually solving a problem for people that have a problem.
[00:59:38] Unknown:
And, that's just Well, I I think a lot of core developers kind of take a little bit of personal offense that the fact that Mempool Accelerator can even exist. I get it. And It's like they're doing their job poorly. Right. And even And I need to exist. I don't see it that way at all because at the end of the day, a centralized company doing a centralized service is always gonna be more efficient than a decentralized peer to peer network trying to do it with, you know, no trusted party running it. And so we can always undercut, you know, just in our MySQL database, we can do accounting a lot more efficiently than on a blockchain. Right? And so I don't feel it's some flaw in Bitcoin that and that in, you know, an out of band fee market exists.
It's just the free market, and the free market is gonna do what the free market's gonna do. We're just trying to do our implementation in the most ethical way possible and the most transparent and open way way possible.
[01:00:40] ODELL:
Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, I don't think it's an attack on Bitcoin. I think it's important for us to accept that as a valid argument and to counter it and to have open discussion about it, because it could be. And I think I actually think by the way, to, Ivan's question, what plumber accepts Bitcoin? If you want your plumber to accept Bitcoin, offer him 20% more if you pay him Bitcoin. He will accept Bitcoin. Then pay him in one separate bite, and he will need to use the mempool accelerator in order to get his transaction confirmed. And and now we've hit the use case.
I think Wiz made a good point, to me, I think, privately, and I'll just share this publicly, and I don't think you won't mind me sharing it publicly. If not us, then who is the answer? And it's it's if if we don't make it a transparent auditable process, someone else will do it in a dark way, because the need exists. The need exists regardless. If you believe mempools will never clear again, if you believe that Bitcoin transaction volume increases, with adoption, and that Bitcoin block space is scarce,
[01:01:59] Unknown:
then people will come up with way worse methods of handling this use case. And I think I think you guys handle it in a very ethical and responsible way. Well, not only that, but all of the transaction accelerators that existed before Mempel accelerator were essentially created during the block space wars, and they were intentionally made as shitty as possible to serve as, like, propaganda for b cash. Right? They wanted to show how terrible Bitcoin is with its full mempool and full blocks, and it was all part of this propaganda. And after the block size wars, those transaction accelerators were still there with their terrible pricing models and opaque everything, and you and, it didn't make any sense. Terrible UI.
And they never improved them. But the mempool got full again. And that's the only thing that the Bitcoin community had for acceleration was these terrible accelerators. And so, yeah, we had to step in and raise the bar and say, this is how you would do it properly if you are a real Bitcoiner. Right? You would do it open source. You would do it transparent. You would let anybody audit what you're doing. You'd partner with all the best mining pools and make a, well, I call it like a marketplace. But, essentially, when someone accelerates a transaction on mempool space, we relay that request to all the mining pool partners, and whoever mines it gets the money.
And that way, we can accelerate with a much larger percentage of hash power than you would have from just accelerating on a single mining pool.
[01:03:41] ODELL:
And they and then the individual might like, every mining pool is not just one miner. The individual miners are able to actually see the block audits, see the transparency, and make sure that the mining pool operator is not just taking that big and not distributing it out to the rest of them. Right? Like, that's a key part.
[01:04:01] Unknown:
I mean, that's the decision of the pool operator to how to redistribute those. I mean, there's other, solo miners. Like, I think, Mara is just mining using their own hash power. Right? So they don't have to But I'm saying for the ones that aren't,
[01:04:15] ODELL:
like, that's one of the key aspects of the block audit. Right? Like, that's why you guys provide these.
[01:04:22] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's gonna be interesting to see what each individual pool operator does in terms of redistributing these out of band fees to the individual minors. Some might just keep it. Some might pay it out as negative fees. Some might redo their FPPS calculations. Right. You know, it seems like a lot of them haven't even figured this out yet, and they're just kind of starting and and seeing how it goes. We're we're still very early with this accelerator. It's only been live for, what, a few weeks now in in the closed beta. Like, publicly, like, what, 3 days or something? Yeah. I mean, the conference is, like, 2 days ago. We turned on, Google Pay and Apple Pay, and now anyone Oh, wait. You can just pay with the Apple Pay now?
Yeah. I mean, if you have a a wallet with lightning in it, that's certainly the best. I mean, that's how I've done it. But, yeah, if you have Cash App Pay or Apple Pay or Google Pay
[01:05:19] ODELL:
Currently, most are paying with Apple Pay actually. And Really? It's really understandable
[01:05:23] Unknown:
that if you're a regular That's insane. And you have a stock transaction, you probably don't have a lightning
[01:05:29] ODELL:
wallet prepared. And they just pay with Apple Pay. I think one of the cool parts about it is, like, you can just, like if you're maybe a little bit drunk, you know, you're just feeling charitable, you can just, like, go you go mempool.space. You just accelerate some random transactions. Like, oh, nice. I got it confirmed. That that's actually pay with money.
[01:05:49] Unknown:
Do for testing the service is I go deep in the mempool and I find some pledged transactions has been stuck for months. Yeah. I'm gonna accelerate it. Use that for a test case Yeah. Instead of just making one wasting That's kinda awesome. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And you feel good about it?
[01:06:03] ODELL:
I mean, I'm just trying to fix my thing. I feel like that's, like, the charity of the future, like, mister beast of of, like, 20 you know mister beast? Of course. He just, like, builds wells for Africans and shit. Like, that's his identity. He would totally just go and accelerate, like, 1,000 people. Just random people. It's just like, I'm gonna pick you get a car. You get a car. But it's a 0 fee. Like, if you're accelerating a transaction, you're
[01:06:26] Unknown:
displacing another transaction from the next block. So It's actually kinda fucked up.
[01:06:32] ODELL:
Well, that's how scarce it works. Deep ethical question. I mean, some asshole's gonna write, like, a 1,000 page book on this, about the ethics of accelerating random person's transaction. I'm not gonna buy that. Me think about it that deeply. Okay. Sorry. Guys, do you think, so right now, there are 200,000 transactions waiting to be confirmed, and I lost my mouse. Where's my mouse? Right there. But, next block is, like, 4 sats per byte. For whatever reason, a shit ton of hash has joined the network probably because they listened, to former president Trump's speech, and they're like, I need Bitcoin in my strategic reserve, and they just all jumped on. So the next difficulty adjustment's gonna be, 11% jump.
And mempool right now is actually predicting that for 31 hour in 31 hours, so it's about to happen. And usually in these periods, mempools decrease, in amount of transactions. I think it's been over a year now that mempools have not cleared. I have famously It's not gonna clear again. I've I was I was asking that was my question.
[01:07:53] Unknown:
Did you agree with me that mempools will never clear again? Yeah. No. It won't clear. I mean, we are if if it was like normal like a few few years ago, like, no no weird stuff in the mempool. The mempool will totally be clear now. But now we have these ruins and stuff and there are people mining tokens by just spamming transactions. So the whole mempool like 200,000 you don't have 200,000 people out there sitting and waiting for a transaction Yeah. Transaction. It's like 1 guy, 10 guy making tens of thousands of those transaction each as, like, a RUNE token mint thing. So you agree with me, but I think that's it's like they are like the buyer of block space.
Like, the last resort buyer of block space is are these Rune Miners Minters. So as soon as the fees start to go down again, they start they will ramp up their minting so they it will never clear. Yeah. I remember people would laugh at Odell on Twitter for saying that mempools would never clear again. This was before I deleted it. Remember Yeah. No. Remember, like,
[01:08:52] Unknown:
Capsule Dell was tweeting out things like the mempool fees are designed to pump forever. And, obviously, we're working on the mempool open source project. We understand that, you know, arguably, better than anyone. But, like, people were really laughing at Odell. They're like, this is crazy. People are betting against you. I mean, how many sats did Marty have to pay you?
[01:09:13] ODELL:
We have we actually have a current bet out. Like, he's gonna owe me a 1,000,000 sats next
[01:09:18] Unknown:
next having. I thought it was the end of last year or something.
[01:09:22] ODELL:
I actually briefly lost that bet, and then I doubled down. But we have a million sats outstanding right now. About man pool never clearing? Yeah. Yeah. I think you're gonna win it. I I made back my money on the rebets, but I actually I never got any money from, so Trinity actually owes me a round of golf. Wow. So I got that going for me. I think I made maybe 200,000 sats altogether, But I have a 1,000,000 sats outstanding with Marty, for next leap year, which is always during havings. I think it was kinda beautiful that Satoshi made leap years, Like, leap years are always having years. I suppose if you
[01:10:04] Unknown:
are running an accelerator, you're inherently betting that the mempool will never clear again.
[01:10:10] Unknown:
So I'm obviously I think we seriously has to consider if we just gonna just purge all the one sats or vBuy transactions from the from our mempools because they're just hanging there and they're never gonna confirm. No. But we can accelerate those now.
[01:10:23] Unknown:
That's No. People accelerate 1 sat per v bytes all the time.
[01:10:26] ODELL:
Yeah. But I'm So why are we gonna purge them? Yeah. Why would you purge them for 6 months, and they're never gonna confirm again. So But now the accelerator exists, they can lose That's the floor. True. Why don't you just delete the whole mempool then? Yeah. Why once why not do zaprify? Yeah. Well, why would you make So it seems like a slippery slope.
[01:10:44] Unknown:
Re enable our time out because I think there's a default time out thing in the in in It was, like, 2 weeks? 2 weeks, and we we removed our time out completely. That's why we have transactions that have been stuck for over
[01:10:55] Unknown:
6, 8 months. The reason we disabled the time out is because we were planning to launch an acceleration service that would be able to accelerate these stuck transactions. And so if you expired them from our mempool, they would Well, then I can recreate
[01:11:08] ODELL:
a new one with a higher fee. That's another option. I mean, I think the cool part is I think the cool part is, with your accelerator is that it's it's legit. It's like almost it's like a perfectly free market. Like, you can you can just pay exactly what is needed to get into the next block if you need to get in the next block. Yep. And the market basically dictates that price. And and a person shouldn't dictate the price. Because if a person can dictate it, then we'll just have we'll have corruption. We'll have greed. Like, the whole system breaks breaks down to a degree, and you guys have added a compelling option to that aspect.
[01:11:51] Unknown:
It was always kind of there. It's just that no one built the tools to really add an arbitrary fee bump on any transaction that simply and easily and taking various payment methods and just putting all the pieces together. Like, it was always possible. Right? Yeah. By the way, Freaks.
[01:12:14] ODELL:
The purge. I didn't I didn't stop, broad this is the first dispatch that's not broadcasted to Twitter ever, and it's not for ideological reasons. I actually left the civil dispatch account up just for broadcast. It it's because I was right. And, to broadcast to Twitter, it requires KYC now. And I would have to get a blue check to broadcast to Twitter, and that's why it's just YouTube and Nostra now. So feel free to just if you're still on Twitter, like, send out a tweet real quick. Just say, Odell was right, period. And then send send tweet. Send the tweet.
Then Just sit there for a second Just like think about your life choices Just like think just like just sit there for a little bit like think And then and then delete your Twitter and then go noster only. I think that's the way you should handle that. Can Bitcoin survive without a working coin joint implementation? Yeah. What's your answer to that? By the way, are we answering questions that are only a 1000 sat saps, or are we are we gonna should we Are we raising the phone? Bump it? I feel like if you want your answer question if you want your question answered, it should be at least 2,000 sats. But we'll answer this one because we just increased the floor.
What do you what do you what do you what is your answer to this question?
[01:13:43] Unknown:
I don't even know what coin joining is.
[01:13:46] ODELL:
We have we have a working coin join implementation right now, and it's join market. And, the easiest way to use join market is is I mean, you have to self host it by design, but the easiest way to use it is is using star 9. I I think the easiest way to run a mempool self hosted is is also probably star 9.
[01:14:09] Unknown:
One click installation.
[01:14:10] ODELL:
Yeah. And you don't have to buy their hardware, pay them any money. You can just I have one right here. The you see this desktop? Like, it's just I didn't pay star 9 shit. I'm just running start OS on that. It's complete overkill. The fans are actually worrying right now. Can you hear the fans? Oh, yeah. We can hear it. So actually They can hear the fans. Wiz is offended that he can hear the fans. This is perfectly soundproof. It's just we're in this, like, super nice recording studio, and we got this, like, power PC over. That's my note, running running join market transactions.
[01:14:43] Unknown:
No. So speaking of start 9, we're about to ship mempool 3 point o, which will be everything you see on mempool space more or less. But with, you know, running on your own node, of course, for Umbrel and Start 9 and all the self hosted platforms out there. And it will, if you enable the feature, integrate with Benpool Accelerator. So everything you're browsing on your own local Bitcoin node will stay the same as always, but you'll have that accelerate button there where you'll be able to get a QR code and zap some lightning stats directly from your own node to accelerate transactions directly from your own node. That's awesome.
Yeah. Couple more day. I think we're just waiting for some translators to, finish some string translation. So maybe in the next day or so, we can bump that up. That's cool. So if you're a translator for the mempool open source project, everyone is waiting for you.
[01:15:42] ODELL:
Oh, like, Brian figured out Brian, we I don't I don't know how to attach a zap to the question in amethyst. Does all caps make you happier? Bitcoin Bennett, you didn't pay anything. I can't answer the question. Yeah. Of course, all caps makes you happier. I'll answer it. I mean, it's important to speak clearly. I can't I mean, I'm amazed that I'm amazed that you can get into the next block of 4 sapro fight. Odell, have you been spamming the chain to win the bet? Asks Ivan. No. I don't have to. I don't have to. Then why why is it I don't think people realize, like, I send more Bitcoin transactions than you. Like, I it's better for me. And, like, it I would make way more money if I can just if I if I could just pay one sapper bite and it just gets confirmed.
Like, Mempools not clearing is a it's almost like I'm I'm doing the 1st fee market insurance scheme. Like, I'm trying to get insurance on all of the Bitcoin transactions I'm gonna have to make in my lifetime by making this bet. And Marty is not liquid enough to make a large enough bet with me that will pay for all of my future transaction fee burden. So I'm I'm actually still short mempools never clearing again. I would like that. We have to correct you on your terminology. It's not a transaction fee market. It's a block space market and a mempool space. Yeah. Blah blah blah. That's what Merck says. I mean, a block space block space is finite. Right? And and the amount of users of Bitcoin is effectively infinite if everyone has children and they have children.
[01:17:31] Unknown:
We stack for our children and our children will stack for their children.
[01:17:35] ODELL:
I love that. I I think that who who said that? Matodell. All caps. CapsoDell. Yeah. We stack for our children, and they will stack for their children.
[01:17:46] Unknown:
You're one
[01:17:48] ODELL:
of those high IQ people Trump mentioned is if you are one of those No. I'm the I'm the left I'm the left curve. I'm on the left curve. It's I think it's, like, very basic logic. What do you think about MC's question? Rider died 3 sufficient fee. With
[01:18:05] Unknown:
2,100,000 status asking why are so many wizards in Bitcoin? There's only 1 I didn't see any wizards. There's only 1 wiz in Bitcoin.
[01:18:13] ODELL:
There's only one Wiz? What what is your opinion on the, Israeli tech company named Wiz that was purchased by Google recently. I cannot comment on pending litigation. Break huge breaking.
[01:18:33] Unknown:
Any other questions?
[01:18:34] ODELL:
Yeah. Guys, feel free to hit us with questions. I'm gonna hit them with questions if you don't hit us with questions. Hit it. So did you guys see Michael Sailor's 21 year prediction for Bitcoin? No.
[01:18:52] Unknown:
Right. Was it, like, $45,000,000
[01:18:55] ODELL:
I think it's 20 years or something. I think, his bear case was $3,000,000.
[01:19:02] Unknown:
I mean, by that point, you know, a beer is gonna cost a $100 or something. Right? Like His,
[01:19:10] ODELL:
his his major case was, was he is he just he's a sailor? Sailor. Let's see. Okay. Here it is. I got it. I got it. I got it. 2045. Right? 21 years from now. Bear case, $3,000,000 for Bitcoin. Base case, $13,000,000 per Bitcoin. Bull case, $49,000,000 per Bitcoin. How do you guys feel about this? Why is he so bearish?
[01:19:42] Unknown:
Yeah. That's an There's an infinite number of money in the What is who are we talking about price?
[01:19:47] Unknown:
People care about price?
[01:19:48] ODELL:
Wait. You don't care about price? I think price is the most important metric. Okay. I'm in it for the tech, and I measure it by price. Oh, okay. Is that a ridiculous concept?
[01:19:59] Unknown:
Wait. Can I have another beer? Yeah. I have another beer.
[01:20:03] ODELL:
2045, $49,000,000 for Bitcoin. Have another beer. Yeah. How much is a loaf of bread in Sailor's Future? A 1,000 sats. Yeah. A $100. Right. That's the correct answer. Whatever. The same number even less sats than it costs now. Right? Yeah. It's, like, 45 sats for a loaf of bread. Sailor will never be the 1st trillionaire because Satoshi will be the 1st trillionaire.
[01:20:26] Unknown:
I I isn't, like, Satoshi already the richest person in the world?
[01:20:30] ODELL:
Probably. Do you think he walks among us? Do you think he was at the conference? Do you think he was on live no. He definitely wasn't on the live desk. Do you think he was watching the live desk? Do you think if he was at the conference, do you think he was in the main stage, or do you think he was in the expo hall watching the live desk? Do you think he's in a live chat? Probably not because we've only we've only been zapped, like, 40,000 stats. He's on the sofa. Do you think he's on the couch? It's literally just MZ. No. I think, I've been zapped 45 stats. Definitely not Satoshi.
[01:21:09] Unknown:
Satoshi would have zapped more. What do you think would happen to Fiat in the short term if RFK won and actually started stacking towards 4,000,000 Bitcoin? I mean, that's ridiculous.
[01:21:21] ODELL:
First of all, RFK will never win. 2nd of all, that's ridiculous.
[01:21:25] Unknown:
Well, the price would go up. So that that's a simple answer. I think
[01:21:30] ODELL:
I zap shaming. Yeah. I am zap shaming you. I love you freaks. You're all right or dies. I got to shake many of your hands this week. Wasn't there, so no. But we also have no ads. So a man's gotta eat, and I'm trying to stack my strategic Bitcoin reserve for my family. By the way, I love that we're all calling it strategic Bitcoin reserve from now. It's not Bitcoin treasury. Stockpile. It's not like your savings. It's just like my whole life is just accumulating my big strategic Bitcoin reserve. It's a strong meme. It's a good I really like that Senator Lummus called it the Louisiana Purchase. I mean, her state, Wyoming, is in the land of they paid, like, $10,000,000 for, like, half of America.
It is it feels similar. It feels similar.
[01:22:18] Unknown:
So, yeah, 4,000,000 Bitcoin. I mean, 1,000,000 Bitcoin. I've the market has barely moved on to 1,000,000 Bitcoin bill. Like, a bill that says, like, straight up, we are gonna accumulate 1,000,000 Bitcoin. Yeah. The Merck's not moving. The mempool is completely dead. It's like the whole world is sleeping on Bitcoin. Like Yeah. What's going on? This work is global. Anyone in the world can just get a wallet to make a transaction, and yet I don't know what's what people are doing. They're just
[01:22:43] ODELL:
they just don't care about their kids. Oh, I've been exactly over 45¢. We're early. That's that's what it is. Are we we're still early.
[01:22:52] Unknown:
People are not using Bitcoin
[01:22:54] Unknown:
yet. It feels like every time we come on Matt's show, it's like we're saying the same thing. So the fees will pump forever. We are so early. We stack for our children. What happens if the state does x? Right? Like true. And it's it's kind of interesting to think back what we said a year ago or 2 years ago or 3 years ago. Yeah. I mean, I remember the first, Citadel dispatch we went on. Must have been 3, 4 years ago, like episode 4 or something like that. And we were, it was just me and Simon talking about the Memplo open source project. And now we're still talking about the Memple open source project.
[01:23:37] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:23:39] ODELL:
The fees are still low. And the fees are 4 sats per Vivo. I would say the single biggest thing RFK said was not the 4,000,000 Bitcoin. It was the cap gains treatment, which Yeah. I think he legal tender. Right? He might have pushed the Overton window on that one because I did not even think you know? Or, like, just say Rod is in charge of Illuminati here at the park. He is not. Yeah. He's head he's the head he, like, he he deals Oh, with with the local politicians and stuff. I didn't know that was something I could ask for. Like, I didn't think we could remove Cap gains treatment.
Wow. We got a I think everyone Look, ride or die freak. MZ gave 21,000
[01:24:27] Unknown:
sets. 21,000 sets? Here, have a beer.
[01:24:30] ODELL:
Yeah.
[01:24:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. You I'll deliver it to you for 21,000.
[01:24:34] ODELL:
Free beer free beer for m z. And Josh zapped 10000 sets. Cap gains tax. I mean, that is a big limiter for people. Japan, they have unrealized
[01:24:49] Unknown:
cap gains tax. I mean, Bitcoin's perfect for unrealized cap gains. So it's like they print more money. That. The unrealized cap gains are in the fiat denominated
[01:24:59] ODELL:
Right. Currency. So, like, they print more money, and they're like, Your Bitcoin went up in our fiat. Yeah. So you have to unrealized again, so you have to pay it. You're like, what? And the beauty of Bitcoin for them is that it's completely liquid, so you can pay it. Like, if if they do unrealized cap gains for, like, real estate, like, what are you gonna do? Like, sell your house to pay it? Like, that's insane. Like, it's not like what are you gonna sell your Apple stock to pay it? Thank god we don't know any of this coin now. Yeah. And those are in the country with capital gain stocks. Good thing I don't have a strategic Bitcoin reserve.
[01:25:30] Unknown:
But you could, like, set up a family office in El Salvador or somewhere. They have capcans. Right? No. Not on Bitcoin.
[01:25:40] ODELL:
Do they? Not? In El Salvador? No. Bitcoin is the legal center. That's why they can't have cap gains on it. Yeah. But the difference is, like, if you're in El Salvador and you say something bad about, you just die in jail. But, like, at least you're not cap gained. Is that how it works? Is that how it works? I don't I don't know. I haven't been to I don't know. I I don't mean to, like, forbid you guys from going to El Salvador. I'm not gonna be too I went there. It was quite nice. The beaches are nice. The people are good. No. I think There's a little bit of concern.
Yeah. Move to Puerto Rico for no cap gains. Yeah. If you're American, you can move to Puerto Rico. And for 10 years, you pay no cap no federal cap gains tax. There's a long list of countries that have no cap gains like a Bitcoin. Yeah. But Puerto Rico is like a special beast because in the US, if you move to, like, Portugal, for instance Yep. You still have to pay US cap gains tax, but if you move to Puerto Rico, you don't. Okay. For America. But the locals still have to pay it. So the local like, it's like a weird dichotomy kind of fucked up thing that goes on over there.
And there's, like, a very much a class system that has developed as but, like, the here's the key. Right? Like, you move to Puerto Rico, you don't pay cap gains tax. And the way you repent is you just walk up to local Puerto Ricans, and you say, do you have a transaction stuck in the mempool? And then you just pay their acceleration fee. And that way You don't have to pay give back. Yes. Yeah. You give back you give back to local Puerto Ricans. That's true. Okay. So Josh is asking he Josh actually gave 10,000 sats. So he has he has banked 5 questions. How it works? Yeah. If yeah. 2,000 sats per question. He he banked he banked 5 questions. Oh. It means MC's got, like, Yeah. MZ, by the way. MZ, you have 10 questions if you if you have questions for us, but you have to put in the chat. But can you outbid it? I thought you outbid each other. So, like, you put 20 k SATS on a question that'll bump out a guy. No. No. We're not bump this the mempool the mempool of, of civil dispatch is not full.
Hopefully, one day, it will never clear again, but we're not there yet. Simon ever retire? No. No. No. No. No. No. We have to answer Josh's question first. So Josh is asking, what's your guys' GOATS and other stuff? Do you know the the origin story of GOATS and other stuff? No. So you know what Nasser stands for. Right? Yeah. Notes and other stuff. Right? So do you remember Balaji's prediction of
[01:28:08] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:28:09] ODELL:
$1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days? Yes. So me and Marty were talking about a rabbit hole recap. Right? And Marty was like I was, like, making fun of Balaji. I was like, this is ridiculous. You know? It it was kinda redeeming for me. Right? Because a lot of people gave me shit for 200 k by conference day, and I'll never make another price prediction again. And, honestly, we would have gotten it if it wasn't for SBF and his meddling kids, but that's besides the point. Like, I'm not gonna blame other people for it. Sure. Marty was like, but what if Belagi's right? What if we get what if we get 1,000,000 Bitcoin $1,000,000 per Bitcoin in 90 days? And my immediate reaction was, like, rabbit hole recaps over.
I'm just gonna do goats and other stuff. Oh. I'm just gonna get I'm gonna get, like, a 1000 acres. I'm gonna get goats, cows So you'd be in the farmer. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna I'm gonna enjoy fucking life. Okay. If we got like, a $1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days, like, the whole world is, like, changed. You know? Like, that we're in a whole new paradigm, and, like, I don't wanna be a public bitcoin about it. So, like, what is your goats and other stuff like after Bitcoin? Like or, like, let's say we hit
[01:29:20] Unknown:
a Dell price predictions for Gong. No. Running the mempool is such a honor and serious responsibility, and it's like we don't do it for the money. We do it because we love to work to contribute to So if we hit a $1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days,
[01:29:38] ODELL:
you're just gonna continue running mempool accelerator.
[01:29:42] Unknown:
I mean I basically I basically already retired, so I should start working on the Bitcoin stuff. And I started working on Bitcoin stuff, which means I built MapRed. So you're already doing the GOATS and other stuff? Yeah. Exactly. This is the This is the GOATs and other stuff. Exactly. We're all we're working on Bitcoin every day. Okay. Respect. Josh, you have 4 more questions.
[01:30:01] ODELL:
Well, wiz okay. So you just answered the same wiz. You answered Cypher Havlam's question as well.
[01:30:09] Unknown:
Where is Mononaut?
[01:30:11] ODELL:
Asks Robin. Nim's cap Nimcapa's question was, wait. You guys have bitcoins. Who said that? Nimcap asked if you guys There's some troll. Don't ignore. No. No. No. No. He paid 2,000 sats. Do you guys have Bitcoins? I mean We have boating accidents quite frequently. Wait. So so, actually, I have a better question for you. Is the plural of Bitcoin Bitcoins? Or is it like, do you have 10 Bitcoins or 10 Bitcoin? I mean, not you. I don't have any Bitcoin. Okay. So if you see a transact, wait. So what does mempool do? Like One coin, 2 coins. If you go to mempool.space and the transaction, is it 10 Bitcoin or 10 Bitcoins?
[01:30:53] Unknown:
We displayed in Sats or BTC.
[01:30:56] ODELL:
Yeah. So BTC. Is it BTCs?
[01:30:58] Unknown:
No.
[01:31:00] ODELL:
Just like it's not US Okay. So I'm right. Okay. So it should just be Bitcoin. Okay. We got that. Okay. We got Rob Ham underpaying saying you guys need me to run more beers. Also, where is Mononaut? Yeah. Mononaut is, a good idea. To run more beers. Yeah. I can do more beers, Rob? That would be great. Where's Mononot?
[01:31:19] Unknown:
Mononot is chained to a desk in our office. We don't let him out. Also, he cares about his OPSEC a lot.
[01:31:26] Unknown:
He he would need, like, voice scrambler, the the one We can do that.
[01:31:30] Unknown:
That'd be cool. Yeah. We should do that.
[01:31:33] ODELL:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mempool is just like, Mempool can sponsor voice scramblers for We should have, like, the whole team on. We should get, like, Copa and Mononox. Did you did you hear the guy on the sofa over there. Did you hear the voltage one? It was, like, 13 people. What? 13 people on this batch? Yeah. It was No way. I think it's the most people on any podcast that's ever existed. It was it was the best podcast.
[01:31:59] Unknown:
Alright. Let's, There's been no better podcast. So let's do the next one. Next year, whenever we do it, we'll get the whole Mempool team out. And we'll get voice scramblers.
[01:32:08] ODELL:
I like voice scramblers. Okay. What about the great gazoo? Thank you for helping me understand this technology, and there's no question. I appreciate that. Right? There's no question there. But he paid us sufficient, so we should call answer? We should answer. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for your support.
[01:32:27] Unknown:
Thank you. Thank you for using the Manpower Space website. No. We didn't get the money. He, Matt got the money. So we have I mean, I think you for supporting Citadel dispatch.
[01:32:36] ODELL:
I mean, it's it's big. I think that's, like, kinda supports you guys. Okay. Right? You you appreciate it. You're great because you're all good boys. There we go. Awesome. Josh, by the way, you have 4 more questions. I think MZ has 10 questions remaining. MZ, you got any questions for us? I only have answers. Yeah. MZ says he only has answers. Hey. Is there anybody listening who uses testnet 4? If so, comment on the chat. Can we accelerate testnet 4 on mempool.space?
[01:33:04] Unknown:
Well, the mempool is empty.
[01:33:06] ODELL:
But, yeah, we should we should make that just for the laws. Right? Yeah. I mean, I wanna spend on Apple Pay to accelerate my test net transaction.
[01:33:16] Unknown:
You could pay with testnet for Bitcoin.
[01:33:19] ODELL:
Testnet 4 sats to accelerate on testnet. Yeah. Or testnet 1, 2, 3, or
[01:33:24] Unknown:
Testnet 1, 2, 3.
[01:33:26] ODELL:
It's kinda questionable. I kinda it's a slippery slope. I you guys don't really you guys have no questions, really? I got the Well, it's because you didn't tweet it out, so they're all on Twitter. Well, did you tweet it out? I did tweet it out. Okay. So what happened? You have a gold check. I'm not Can we talk about the Twitter Noster thing? Okay. Because I feel like you you look down on me for it. What? Why do you think Because you're, like, you're a Twitter maxi. I hardly use Twitter. I mean, you're you're like, literally, like, how many how much social media do you have? What other social media did you on LinkedIn? Did you did you link what is it called a LinkedIn post? Did you LinkedIn post this this episode?
[01:34:05] Unknown:
Why why why you gotta be like that? Why you like it? Why you gotta be like I don't have LinkedIn. I retweeted this episode on my nostril.
[01:34:12] ODELL:
We know you're not on Twitter, Matt, so I tweeted But what what other social medias are you on? Are you on TikTok?
[01:34:20] Unknown:
Not that young. I'm, like, older. I'm not the TikTok channel. Did you send it to your WhatsApp group chats? I don't have a WhatsApp.
[01:34:29] ODELL:
What other are you not no other social media besides Twitter? I'm a Prime I mean, I'm Nostar. Nostar? Yeah. Did we get you prameled on it /wiz? Yes. Primal.net/wiz?
[01:34:40] Unknown:
Milian is amazing, and he did that without Isn't he great? Yes.
[01:34:44] ODELL:
So primal.net/wiz. You can follow Wiz over there. I'm also primal.net/odell. Do we have Of course you are. And also this is this show is primal.net/cidadel.
[01:34:58] Unknown:
And guess what happens if you go to primal.net/mempool?
[01:35:01] ODELL:
Yeah. What what happens if you go there? Well, you get to the mempool. Oh, wow. The Wiz profile is great. You look great. What? You look really good on that. What do you mean? It's just my I think you look great. Oh, man. I trolled Will so hard on this.
[01:35:20] Unknown:
What? He tweeted out the video. Oh, primal.net/manpool.
[01:35:24] ODELL:
That looks good. By the way, I'm in all caps. If you do all caps, it still works. Yacht rock season. Yeah. It is rock yacht rock season.
[01:35:33] Unknown:
Testnet for accelerator will require a testnet for lightning network. So it's a full test net for a circular economy. Okay. That makes sense. I mean,
[01:35:43] ODELL:
Rob Rob is one of our best resources here at Bitcoin Park. He's a local master, and now he moved his whole family here. Oh, Rob Rob and I cofounded testnet 4 along with Fabian. Yes. I go it's a product of the Illuminati. I only use MAME. It was a,
[01:36:00] Unknown:
we had a closed door meeting. We made a backroom deal. We
[01:36:05] ODELL:
we sacrificed the goat and other stuff. So why can't we accelerate transactions via Nostra yet?
[01:36:13] Unknown:
Because nobody's ever requested such a Well, Ivan just requested it.
[01:36:19] ODELL:
That's why I asked the question. Oh, so, like, if you
[01:36:24] Unknown:
if you just, like, post a TX ID on Noster with a zap along with it, that should just fee bump it. We should just be able to zap the money. Mempool with the TXID and zapsat. That should just fee bump. Social acceleration.
[01:36:38] ODELL:
Or, like, what if I what if I How big of a mark? What if I do, like, a nostril, and I'm like, please, sir please, sir, me, familia, and then I put the t x I t, and then someone else zaps it. Zap it. Yeah. That makes sense. So it's like social Social acceleration. You like that. Right? Yeah. I see Greg would use that. I heard a comedian got jumped after our our I didn't know about that. That sucks. I liked him. He was good. Did you did you guys go to the live rabbit hole recap? Yes. We were both there.
[01:37:10] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. I heard about that, actually. Yeah. Did you actually hear about that?
[01:37:13] ODELL:
Yeah. I just got something stolen. Yeah. That's fucked up. I mean, you talked a big game. You said he was always carrying this. Like, fat was in his folds.
[01:37:23] Unknown:
He talked a lot of shit. Yeah.
[01:37:26] ODELL:
Damn. Well, RHR was we had a I didn't hear about that. We had a we had a sold out show of 600 people. We had David Lucas there. He was roasting us from kill Tony. He's a little bit brutal, but he's a good dude. He meant well. I he told me he was gonna sell all the shit coins for Bitcoin, but maybe not if the Bitcoin had jumped him. That's fucked up.
[01:37:53] Unknown:
So was it really the last RHR ever? No. Of course not.
[01:37:57] ODELL:
That was just a running joke. Oh, because, what Bitcoin did had a last episode, so you had to have the same one? No. It's because Thomas from Pub Key said that we weren't selling enough tickets, and we were at, like, half we were half sold, like, 4 weeks ago. And on RHR, I was just like, oh, it's gonna be I just started doing Trumpism, so I was like, this would be the best RHR ever? I was like, it's the last RHR ever, and then we just kept running with it. But, like, we had clues there that it was obviously not gonna be the last rabbit hole recap. I mean, the the most recent rabbit hole recap, we literally said that the winner of the hot dog eating contest would be on the next rabbit hole recap. Like, that's impossible if it's the last one ever. Like, they use don't just verify. Like, there's clues there. And, also, it's a $50 ticket, so I don't feel like I scammed anybody. And it was a great show. I thought it was a a lot of fun. $50?
Yeah. We had a mariachi band.
[01:38:48] Unknown:
It was a great show, and I tried to get some friends on it. The tickets were sold out. So Yeah. Good show. Sold out sold out sold that crowd.
[01:38:55] ODELL:
MZ, RHR rug pull. No. It wasn't a rug pull. You have 9 questions left. He didn't get jumped, but I thought you were going to get him jumped for his. No. No. The it was all loved there. It was we we invited him down. Like, we brought him down. It was a whole thing. We're happy to have him. I thought he was going to roast you guys and not us, but I'm a team player. The only thing that pissed me off when he said I looked like I was from Connecticut or Rhode Island, And as a New Yorker, that's, like, probably the most offensive thing you could say to somebody. So I told him to fuck off. Like, that is, I think, a completely reasonable response.
So, He said Marty looked like an AI generated real estate agent. He surprisingly owned Bitcoin. I assumed he didn't own Bitcoin, so I like that. Oh, yeah. This is a good question. So MZ has 8 questions left now. What is the official way to display the mempool and blocks on mempool that space? Mempool right or left side? I mean, the official way is obvious. Yeah. The default. Mempool's on the left side. Right?
[01:40:08] Unknown:
It's a user preference. Yeah. There is no right or wrong answer. It is for each user to decide on their own. I like it on the left side
[01:40:18] ODELL:
because we read left to right.
[01:40:22] Unknown:
Exactly. That's the reason why it's weird. People disagree, and that's why it's a preference. I mean, Gigi was,
[01:40:28] ODELL:
Yeah. Their argument is that time flows the other way. Yeah. How do I flip it? I press this button. Yeah. Nope. That didn't work. Did that work? I think there you have 2 arrows now to choose from. One's that flip it the other way. What does the top one do? That's right. Feed I know. What is it what is it doing? Fights. Oh, I see what it's doing. Oh, it's just changing it. Okay. Yeah. So that is the next question. Like It looks way I don't like the other way. Size of the blocks or the feeds of the blocks? It's a big controversy. It's not a big controversy. I created Is it a It created the Is it an internal controversy? Literally the only first one in the box. It's for all these years, all always show the
[01:41:08] Unknown:
size of the blocks, like, 1 megabyte, 2 megabytes. And then everyone decided if we should just switch it to default showing the fees, and I didn't agree.
[01:41:18] Unknown:
It's called dying on the hillside. You didn't agree? I still don't agree.
[01:41:23] ODELL:
Wait. So it shows the fees by default, and you wanna show the the size of the Yeah. Because that's how it always be. Like, just check the mempool model. No. No. But one one day, it's just gonna be all pretty much all the same size, and then the fees is all that matters. Is this the argument? Are you guys
[01:41:41] Unknown:
I'm so glad you brought this up, Simon, so that we could have this discussion on air.
[01:41:47] ODELL:
Look. As one of as one of the the the the large I think we're the largest investor in Menphoo. Like, you should come to me with these internal debates, and I'm happy to wait for them privately.
[01:41:58] Unknown:
Hear me out. Let's say you're a regular average Bitcoin user. You just care about your transaction. You go to mempool space. You wanna learn about the Bitcoin blockchain, how it works, and you see some random numbers that representing the fees. Who cares? They don't know I care. That's what they care about. It looks technical. It looks weird. But if you see, this is a block. It's 1 megabyte. It's 2 megabytes. That is very intuitive to explain that this is a block, 2 megabytes big, and this is how it's always been. This is like No. I disagree. You're wrong about this.
[01:42:27] ODELL:
Okay. Well Humbly. Humbly. Humbly. I respect your opinion. I understand what you're saying. It's kinda cool to understand how big the black but they're all gonna be the same size at some point. You realize that. Right? They're not. Like, right now, it's interesting. Same.
[01:42:45] Unknown:
They're gonna all be full. Remember Yeah. They're all full right now already, but and they're, like, between 1 and 2 megabytes. Remember when we had in very early days, the mempool was always,
[01:42:57] Unknown:
empty, basically. And we had the mempool graph, that rainbow graph Yep. Was upside down and you had the dotted line. No. That was confusing. Right. Right. And once the mempool became full all the time, that was became completely useless because
[01:43:13] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:43:14] Unknown:
The mempool's full all the time. So why would you wanna see that dotted line? It's the same on the we had it on the dashboard. Right? And it was just showing this huge rainbow. And then, yes, even later after that, when it was the correct orientation for a full Menpool environment, it was so full that it was just this rainbow, and it's kind of useless. So then we replaced it with the Menpool goggles, which is much more I love the men pull goggles. Yeah. That was, Mononaut's, beautiful visualization and, the ability to highlight or Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Certain types of transactions.
[01:43:47] Unknown:
That's great.
[01:43:48] Unknown:
But yeah. I mean, over time, the mempool changes, and that's why we switched it from bytes to Sats.
[01:43:54] ODELL:
I think Josh has banked a couple questions. What do you guys think of Federman? Does is he asking about Fedimint specifically or e cash in general? I mean, he literally said, what do you all think of Fedimint? Yeah. I mean, you can answer both questions. I'm curious.
[01:44:15] Unknown:
I guess it's a good idea.
[01:44:20] ODELL:
You don't sound very optimistic on it. It's an optional way of, like, scaling Bitcoin or something. But I mean, it's not scaling Bitcoin. It's making custodians better. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's making Like our ETF scaling Bitcoin? I think I think Cali does a good job with this. He's he never says it's scaling bit. It's not scaling. Mhmm. Yeah. But it's just It's improving custodians.
[01:44:42] Unknown:
But it is scaling though. If you if a whole village just uses sentiments within themselves, they are actually not making What if a whole if a whole village uses Ibit, like BlackRock ETF, is that scaling? Yeah. It is. Why not? I mean, this goes back to, like, the whole liquid federation debate. You know, liquids,
[01:44:59] Unknown:
you peg in, and then you get this IOU token. And it's custodial to the federation and you have this 11 of 15 multisig or whatever it is. And you're trusting the federation not to rug you. You're trusting the Fedimint not to rug you.
[01:45:19] Unknown:
And actually, Liquid is fully auditable, but correct me if I'm wrong with the eCaching. Yeah. I actually spoke to Eric, and he actually gave me some more confidence that you can actually audit the Fannie Mae. Is that? You can just call an API and it shows you the whole log of all the transactions. But how do you know that's legit? You can't. And that's why they're building, like, a system, like, every 6 months or so, all the e cash gets burned and recreated. That means if you have some dark fake,
[01:45:48] Unknown:
create other thing there, those will expire. So it's like a 6 months audit thing and you can see the log. I mean, I think the real audit is, like, you we should just run the banks all the time. You know, I you know what's really ironic? Let's just run them. You know what's really ironic to me is, like, we supported liquid since the early days when the mempool was empty, and nobody cared about liquid. And that was fine. Shit. But now, like, e cash and Fedimint, which you can't even fully audit like you can with liquid. Yeah. But e cash has better
[01:46:17] ODELL:
properties.
[01:46:18] Unknown:
No. But, like, if your concern is the
[01:46:21] Unknown:
rug ability alright. MZ has some stronger With the rug I mean, MZ already posed the question, like, are you a Bitcoiner if you use a Fedimin? The problem is also that He's got 8 questions. So they are not protected from regulatory capture, and that's the probably the biggest issue. Like, the Fedimins are gonna require KYC in the long term. No. No. But, I mean, there will be many of them, and you can just swap between them really easily. So you mean that you're gonna run and try to hide from the government or running a
[01:46:46] ODELL:
maybe we won't have to. Like, I mean, maybe Trump likes the pediments. They're the best. We want all the pediments in the United States. It's possible, but
[01:46:56] Unknown:
then all custodians are gonna be KYC free, is that what you're saying?
[01:47:00] ODELL:
Kraken, Coinbase. Yeah. I mean, maybe. No. I mean, no. I'm not saying that. Well, what's the threat model here? Is it the I just RFK said that we're not gonna have cap gains tax. So, like, maybe, like, yeah, maybe Bank Secrecy Act is, like, Bitcoin 2025. Like Okay. But Well, it's just just just just gonna be at the stage, like, we're getting rid of the Bank Secrecy Act to send my question. Was, what do you think of Fedimint? And then my response will be, well, what's the threat model? Is it the
[01:47:27] Unknown:
self custody or, you know, custodial nature where you can get rugged, or is it the privacy nature? And so if you're making this huge trade off of, you know, trusting a third party to custody your funds so you can have some privacy, that's your decision.
[01:47:45] ODELL:
But there's probably better ways to achieve that. No. No. I I agree with Ivan actually that Trump likes KYC, and we can dream. And I agree with Bill Monroe that says we don't want the CCP running all the Fediments. Also, it doesn't really matter if the CCP runs the Fediments, because the beauty is the custodian can't see the transactions. I would say the real question is if we're pragmatic, people are using custodial solutions regardless. So if they're using Wallet as Satoshi, I would rather Wallet as which, by the way, doesn't require KYC Yeah. No audit. I would and there's no audit. I would rather they have privacy from that custodian, and it was interoperable, and you could use it in a programmable way. Like, one of the cool parts about eCash is that the IOU itself is self custody.
It's still an IOU Sure. But but you have ownership over that IOU in a cryptographically verifiable way, so you can program you can program it in interesting zaps and shit in really cool ways when you integrate Nostra. And I feel like I let you guys off the hook with the Twitter Nostra debate that we didn't have. But, like, I I I think the zaps, like, you can do you can do really interesting things with the cash from a, like, programmable way. And it just makes it easier to run a custodian, and it makes the custodians more responsible in terms of and it doesn't make the custodians more responsible, but it makes the custodians a better model if you're gonna use a custodian in the first place because a custodian can't see all your transactions. Yeah. But I think Period. And Fedimint, it's a multi sig custodian. So you the the Liquid Federation could have implemented e cash or or some proper
[01:49:34] Unknown:
privacy. Yeah. Instead of just And it would have been way better than Confidential payments. Yeah. I I mean, yeah, I have a lot of phases. Well, if if your goal is to get privacy without trading off the custody so much
[01:49:50] ODELL:
and having full auditability, yeah, I mean, there's Yeah. I mean, NIMCAP has the point. Like, it's basically u s a USD bill. Like, a USD bill like, you have a dollar bill in your hand. I don't think anyone calls it a USD bill, but you have a dollar bill in your hand. It's basically like a self custody IOU. Right? And that's what ECash is. It's recreating the dollar bill for Bitcoin. The
[01:50:13] Unknown:
old school gold certificates and silver certificates denominated in US dollars were IOUs. They were basically e cash. But nowadays, US dollar is not an IOU. It's just pure. It's still an IOU. I mean What are you gonna redeem it for?
[01:50:34] ODELL:
And thank you guys for joining us. It's still a dispatch 135. I don't know. I mean but that's what it is. Right? It's like it's it's it's the paper bill equivalent. It's you get privacy, but you're still trusting a custodian. That's true. And with Fedimintz, it's multisig.
[01:50:52] Unknown:
Yeah. With the With Casu currently, I think, is only one custodian which makes the probability higher. Yeah. But with Fedimint, it's a federation multisig Yeah. That has to sign off of every e cash created. Yeah. So liquid and Fedimint is a bit similar in that regard. You think,
[01:51:08] ODELL:
Wiz, you've been a liquid bull for
[01:51:11] Unknown:
way too long. Is It's not a liquid bull, I tell you. I wanna I wanna accept liquid payments for, like, accelerator, but does liquid can you can I pay with liquid for accelerator?
[01:51:21] ODELL:
You cannot. Why not? Do do you not even care about liquid?
[01:51:26] Unknown:
You're literally the first person to ask that, and I know you're not seriously interested in doing that. So I actually I know the only person who would pay for it is
[01:51:37] ODELL:
is there's there's only 2 people, though. It was it's you and, maybe
[01:51:45] Unknown:
one other person. It's actually not even me. I wasn't gonna say so. Who wanted to see. Actually, I was the 1st user who topped up balance to my lightning accelerator account using liquid. So did you go to beefsteak on, Friday?
[01:51:57] ODELL:
Yep. So I'm gonna can I dox him? I'm allowed to dox him. The only person that's ever paid paid for beefsteak on liquid was Steve. We also mention this every year on Yeah. But but but, look, if you didn't But can I not liquid, there would be 0 people paying more liquid? Yeah. So instead we got one person. Yeah. So, like, when when can Steve pay for an accelerated transaction? I think liquid was a really cool idea
[01:52:22] Unknown:
5 or 6 years ago when it first came out. But for whatever reason, not blaming anybody, the ecosystem was not built around liquid. The the ecosystem was built around lightning. You mean the market didn't want liquid. Right? No. I mean, you have to make it happen. Like, Blockstream could have made all these wallets and swap services and stuff, but they didn't really. They just kind of shipped liquid and said, okay. You guys build it. Right?
[01:52:51] Unknown:
But we have Aqua now, and we have, a Yeah. Do you think Aqua makes sense?
[01:52:57] ODELL:
It's kind of, like, too little too late in my opinion. So Aqua uses lightning, but at rest, it holds everything in liquid. Yeah. It just use lightning as swaps. It doesn't And then Ambos released something similar. It's it's similar. It's called Mibanco
[01:53:11] Unknown:
app. Mhmm. I think so so you gotta remember, like, when liquid first came out, lightning was just, like, an idea and just starting out too. Right. And it wasn't really clear, like, which one Right. Liquids are much simpler. But lightning won. Like, the whole ecosystem developed on top of lightning, and literally nothing developed on top of liquid. So just being like a like a realist like a reasonable person, like, yeah, I'm gonna go use lightning because everyone use lightning.
[01:53:39] ODELL:
And nothing against liquid. It's just nobody use it. I mean, so I I can't use liquid to pay for a mempool acceleration.
[01:53:46] Unknown:
That's correct.
[01:53:47] Unknown:
We can do it every time, but we started off. That's the true story.
[01:53:55] ODELL:
Well, I feel like you guys are just gonna get you're gonna get playing by, like, the 3 liquid wolves for not accepting that pull acceleration now after I think we should support the Bitcoin ecosystem and by support. Wiz is the one stopping it. Right? Is that what you're saying, Sam? I think we should support e cash and Arc going forward. Arc doesn't exist. Can it exist without a soft fork? On liquid. But it needs a fork. Right? Arc on liquid? Yeah. It's exist Are you bullish on Arc on liquid? It's like a layer. It might act as a test then right now, but I actually tried it for You're gonna, like, go through the trouble of supporting it, and then, like, 95% of people are gonna use Apple Pay to pay for their accelerations.
Gonna happen. Not going to go through the troubles for you. Okay. M z m z's on his he's bank he's banked, like, 10 questions. This is his 7th question. In a very high fee market, people will start using liquid. Also, swap from lightning to this is not a question. You sure about that? There in a high fee market, people aren't gonna use liquid. No. Maybe. We already saw it. That's happened. The the problem No one no one used liquid in the high 90s. Is that It's like Stefan, like, said, like, I'm using liquid, and then no one used it. The problem is that the tools aren't really there. Right? It's like,
[01:55:10] Unknown:
where's my
[01:55:11] ODELL:
multisig cold storage? Where's my Well, why would you have multisig cold storage on liquid?
[01:55:17] Unknown:
Does not support. Right? It's like What doesn't what doesn't support? I don't really wanna, like
[01:55:24] Unknown:
like Should we fight about liquid? It's like there's a million things that just don't exist on liquid. Right? Whereas on Bitcoin I would like to see a coin joint implementation on liquid. Exactly. Like that would be good. No. There's a million things like like that that could have been built 5, 6 years ago, but then no one built it. Nobody What we what we're lacking is the Bitcoin super app, A great app that has everything that be people use today with Bitcoin, but it also has liquid and it will automatically use liquid. Oh, it's not Aqua or no? Yeah. But then it's like a new wallet you have to start using. So you have one wallet for this and one of the If you want the super app, it's obviously gotta be a new wallet. With my Phoenix wallet, I can pay lightning and on chain. It automatically figures out Yeah. Based on the QR code. But not liquid. No.
[01:56:06] ODELL:
So Awesome. Well, guys, this has been fantastic. I've really enjoyed this one. I think this has been a prolific episode. I'm glad this is the first one after the break. I think, I wouldn't I I wouldn't rather have it with anyone else than you guys. Can we talk about the accelerator? Yeah. What do you wanna talk about? I mean, the accelerator is so awesome that we'd like you talk about it for 15 minutes, like, it just fucking works. What else do you wanna talk about? Do you have something to talk about?
[01:56:34] Unknown:
I don't know. I I thought we would talk more about You're the host. It's just we worked on this thing for 5 years. Oh, wow. Ocean mind a blog. Wow. Congratulations,
[01:56:47] Unknown:
guys. 1st in a week. That was actually causing a bug for our interface. They were only touching the pools that have mined the block in the past week. And so when it went over 1 a week, it started crashing. So
[01:57:03] ODELL:
So now we're good. You didn't have to fix the bug. Right. But you did fix it. Right? It's fixed, but not in production. So Well, we were busy with other things. Did they mine it? No. They didn't mine. Oh, that's unlucky. They didn't mine any accelerated transactions? But they had mined in the previous Not today. Not today. But Not today. So what do you want Wizz, what do you wanna talk about the accelerator? Let's talk about it. I just think I'm happy to chat about it. I just think,
[01:57:28] Unknown:
the psychology of the accelerator is such that nobody cares about the accelerator until they have a stuck transaction. And that is the best thing that's ever And then they're like, oh, yes. Give me the accelerator. No. And it's an it's like a very high time preference concept. And that's why well, because, like, if you're if you're in trouble, right, like your transaction stuck. I need it. You need it right now. Yeah. But if you are low time preference,
[01:57:58] ODELL:
you're not gonna, like, set up your accelerator account. You're not going to like. Well, I mean, if you're you don't need it. That's the cool part is you don't need an accelerator account.
[01:58:08] Unknown:
Right. And and that's kind of why we didn't build it to require we we, you know, don't require an account. MZ asks thank you, MZ.
[01:58:19] ODELL:
He's got 5 more questions left.
[01:58:22] Unknown:
Do you have examples of transactions that are stuck and a good candidate for the accelerator?
[01:58:28] ODELL:
Lightning force lightning force closes. Yeah. All the lightning shit.
[01:58:32] Unknown:
All the lightning shit. Actually, yeah.
[01:58:35] Unknown:
We should make a filter for that so we can And then, also,
[01:58:39] ODELL:
anytime you deposit into, like, an exchange or something, like, you deposit in the custodial wallet where you can't You can't fee bump it. And if you do yeah. If you if you can't do it, even do a CPFP because you did a full you just full send max send to Cash App or something.
[01:58:56] Unknown:
You know what it's actually really good for is, I think, 2 or 3 use cases. Number 1 is when yeah. Say you have a Cash App account and someone sends you SATs into your cash up account. Oh, what's that? But at once, they listen to Catan. They're like, one separate bites going to clear this. I think a year and a half ago. You can't RBF it because you don't have the keys. You can't see it because you don't have the keys. Yeah. And all you can do is accelerate it. And then the another good use case is like a multisig vault where all the keyholders are in different countries, and it takes 24 hours for everyone to sign. And by the time you get everyone to sign, the fees went through the roof. Yep. And, it's just it's just buried in the mempool or sometimes not even broad castable because it's below the purge rate, and you need the accelerator.
[01:59:49] Unknown:
But, honestly, I think in reality, 90% of accelerations will be people that don't know what they're doing. They don't know what RBF is, and they're using a wallet that's shitty. Yeah. It's just easier UX than RBF or CPFB.
[02:00:03] ODELL:
Right. Right. Right. So so just somehow, if you're 2 hours into Citadel dispatch, 135, and you do not understand what RBF replaced by fee or CPFP is, child pays for parent. Let me explain it to you. So replace by fee is you're the sender, and your wallet supports replace by fee. You send a transaction. It's stuck in the mempool. You open Sparrow or whatever wallet you're using, but you probably should just be using Sparrow. And you wanna you your fee is stuck your transaction is stuck. You can replace it with a new transaction that has a higher fee. You're the sender in that situation. Child pays for parent.
You receive a transaction, and you have this transaction. You can take that transaction, and you can send another transaction with a much higher fee rate. And then that child gets confirmed with that parent transaction. Child pays for parent, and then it gets confirmed. Now we'll say in the CPFP situation actually, in both situations, it's kinda hard to estimate what fee you want to set to get into the next block. And with your UX, it's just way, way, way, way easier. Yeah. You can And, also, just conceptually, it's just easier to cons you know, like, understand. Right? Like, you just go to mempool.space
[02:01:29] Unknown:
and just Yeah. You need a special calculator for CPFB to hit the right fee. It's so hard. And also you might end up paying a lot. Way more. You need to pay a new transaction with a very high fee. Yeah. That bumps the other ones. And if the other transaction has a lot of inputs. Yeah. Like, it might be really high.
[02:01:47] ODELL:
And you have no idea and then it might not even get confirmed. Like, the mempool mempools might run run away from you, and then it just doesn't even get confirmed.
[02:01:56] Unknown:
If your transaction is stuck, use mempool accelerator.
[02:02:01] ODELL:
I mean, Wiz, you're the one who wanna like, I I The beauty of this is it required a lot of work, but it's so easy and Yeah. It's hard to talk about. It's hard to talk about. It's hard to talk about. Discuss.
[02:02:13] Unknown:
It's cool. I I think you wanted to talk about, goats and other things anyway. Who? Me? Yeah. Liquid. No. No. The the the ride or die free. The chat the chat Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steered this conversation.
[02:02:26] ODELL:
I mean, like, I I just want you to be Nostar only. Like, I'm a simple man. But I never even tweet anything anyway. Yeah. But when you do, you should just not, and you should just post it on noster. And we'll, Yeah. We have if you can go zap you. If you go to primal.net/mempool,
[02:02:43] Unknown:
you can see we tweeted something 10 hours ago. What about primal.net/wiz?
[02:02:48] ODELL:
Like, hey. You haven't posted in a while. Well, I didn't tweet anything from there either. Okay. I tweeted Odell was right about an hour ago. Oh, you did? Because someone told me to. You did. How how was the engagement on that? Are the people loving it? Are you are you FOMO ing for Twitter engagement? I don't know. I can't I can't see it because it has a paywall now. Like, I I not a paywall, but a login wall. Like, you can't check it unless you have a Twitter account. It's okay. I forgive you. Thank you for saying I was right.
[02:03:21] Unknown:
Everyone wants to know what you were right about, though. Is that what they're all Yes. Okay?
[02:03:27] ODELL:
Well, clearly not paying attention because plenty of things. Guys, this has been a pleasure. Thanks for coming to Nashville.
[02:03:39] Unknown:
Of course. We came here for you. The conference was just a satellite event. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Bitcoin Park was the main event. Yeah. I stayed just near Bitcoin Park. He came here every day.
[02:03:50] Unknown:
I think I went to a conference one day to see that, the Trump thing, historical.
[02:03:55] ODELL:
So
[02:03:56] Unknown:
it's a moment. And also Wiz's announcement, of course. That was my 2 slots on the He just saved his ass. Otherwise, I just hang out to The company was about to break apart. Yeah.
[02:04:11] ODELL:
Are you you guys are both leaving tomorrow? Yeah. I guess. You know we have Rust Bitcoin week this week. Right? Did you see all the developers upstairs?
[02:04:23] Unknown:
Yeah. We saw them. Yeah. We we we're busy. We're running the mempool. We have to accelerate You're running You're running the mempool. The conspiracies are real. There's only one mempool. Right? Pretty much. I mean, it's funny how that we kind of memed that into existence, but
[02:04:41] ODELL:
Let your memes be dreams. Oh, Simon's getting calls. Simon's important.
[02:04:46] Unknown:
You can put on speaker phone. They can join the call. It's like Marty's dad calling into the show. Is that your dad? You should put him on the show. What's a friend? What's a big winner, actually?
[02:04:56] ODELL:
Nashville's cool.
[02:04:57] Unknown:
Nice. Good vibes. You should have callers on the show. I think that'd be pretty cool. Should we have a caller? But how would they call in? You'd have to use Twitter.
[02:05:06] ODELL:
Well, they can call me on signal. Oh, signal? Yeah. I could just hold it. When Mark's dad calls, they just hold it on speakerphone. Boomer. Uncle Boomer. Guys, this has been great. I have nothing else to ask you. Do you have anything to ask me? AMA. No. You're tired. MC has a we have a question from the live studio audience. MC, what's your question? Are you tired? He's at Mz is asking me if I'm tired. I'm exhausted. It's been a long fucking week. That's true. I think
[02:05:44] Unknown:
I think I'm glad it's over. It was great, but I'm glad it's over. It felt like a decade. But it was a great experience. It was a hell of a conference.
[02:05:52] ODELL:
It was really it was it was it was a good it was a good week. It was it was a monumental week. It was a momentous week. It was it was pretty ridiculous sitting next to RZA during the livestream just like, we are moments away from the Literally minutes away from the 47th president of the United States joining us on stage with a special guest, Matthew Odell. What do you how do you feel about this situation? That was pretty ridiculous, but it was a pleasure to be a part of it. Honestly, I think you guys give you guys give Rizm a little bit too much shit. Not you guys. But Are you pumped for the Vegas conference? I'm not. It conflicts with HRF with, Oslo.
Oh. So I will not be going.
[02:06:43] Unknown:
I think Nashville was great for the conference venue. I'm kinda sad to see it go to Vegas, honestly. Like I thought it was gonna move here now because of Well, in their defense in their defense, their conference center wasn't had no openings
[02:06:55] ODELL:
for next year. Nashville's, like, sneaky one of whole year? Yeah. Nashville's, like, sneaky one of the best places to have a conference. So, like, their that conference center is, like, heavily booked. Woah. Oh, oh, that's a good one. Ivan said he said that so many times even in front of doctor Ron Paul. I was that whole time, I was wearing the same headphones as as Ron Paul. I never had a moment to mention that on a live stream, but that was cool. Same headphones. Our ears our ears kinda kissed.
[02:07:28] Unknown:
Yeah. That's cool. That's a moment.
[02:07:30] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know about I mean, maybe, like, for a DEF CONs or CES sized conference, you gotta go to Vegas. But I still feel like the Bitcoin conference would have done very nicely in Nashville for at least a few more years. Yeah. I thought everything good fit. I mean, literally,
[02:07:46] ODELL:
I Vegas is it makes sense from, like, a conference running perspective, but it like, my pitch to so many people I talk to is that, like, Bitcoin is the safe haven asset. It's the conservative asset. It's it's it's the freedom asset. It's the thing that you just hold long term for your kids and your children, and you can spend it without permission, and you you can you can save it without permission. And and Vegas is very much a paradise. And it was always like to me, it was like, you have Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the is the humble one, and then you have shit coins, which is the degen one and going to, like, degen centers.
Kind of a bad look, but, also, you know, I understand where they're coming from. But my point is, if you're competing with if you're completing with the Oslo Freedom Forum, like, I just can't like, I go to I go to HRF events. Like, that's just how it is. Like, it's the one event that I'll always go to. It's it's special and activists from around the world to go there, and it is what it is. So, Nostra, you're gonna use it more? Can you promise that you'll use it more with Yeah. We've been tweet I mean, we've been posting from the the. Every time you send a LinkedIn message, will you repost it it to Nasir? LinkedIn. Fuck LinkedIn. I mean, you didn't say you didn't. LinkedIn is when you're looking for a job. Would you think I have LinkedIn? I don't know. You know, to connect with the suits that I don't wanna accelerate their transactions.
What?
[02:09:23] Unknown:
We have a lot of tweet not tweets. We have a lot of posts on Nostril. We have a lot of goats and other stuff on Nostril. Primal.net/menpool.
[02:09:33] ODELL:
You can follow the mempool over the phone on on Nostril. Simon, are you on Nostril at all? Like, I feel like I've let you off the hook. I'm on Nostril. Do you post?
[02:09:42] Unknown:
I post occasionally. I post more on Twitter. Do you zap?
[02:09:47] ODELL:
Okay. Occasionally. I feel like you should zap more. Okay. Okay. Okay. I I don't mean to shame you guys. I I love both of you guys. MZ, you have 5 questions left. We're just we'll let you bank that for the next episode. Round? No. No. There'll be a next episode. There's always a next episode.
[02:10:05] Unknown:
But not when he's on the sofa.
[02:10:08] ODELL:
Yeah. Well, next I mean, next time, he can just join from the live chat wherever he is. By the way, MZ, thank you for coming to Nashville. It's been an honor and a privilege to to host you over here. You get you are a fucking legend. I you know, when I introduced MZ, I introduced him as a default electrum node on, Sparrow. That's the only thing that's the introduction. The highest honor. Yeah. I feel like that's legit. Wiz, final thoughts.
[02:10:34] Unknown:
Thanks for having us on the show. It's been many, many years that you've been having me and Simon on the show, and it's been cool to kind of come on every once in a while and and give us a chance to show our wares and look back in the the past time we were on the show and think, oh, wow. The project has grown quite a lot since then.
[02:10:55] ODELL:
But it's funny how we always kinda say the same stuff every episode more or less. You kinda love it. It's special. Yeah. It's it's special. Well, thanks for coming back on. Simon, final thoughts.
[02:11:04] Unknown:
Well, it's cool to be on once again, and I hope next time we're on the feeds are gonna be, like, a 1,000 sats per vbyte to get into the You think they will be? Yeah. They're gonna stabilize around a few 100 sats, 3 v bytes next time. When is it gonna be? When's the next time? Next time is, maybe a year from now? A year from now. A year from now, it's gonna be a 1,000 steps. We're gonna come back to you next year. So a couple of 100. Let's say a 100. A few 100. A 100? 100 starts for right next time. Yeah. And I think it's gonna stabilize around a few 100, like, every year, year after year. That's right, bud.
[02:11:39] ODELL:
Thank you, guys. Mhmm. Love you, freaks. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. What condition my condition was in. Ambition was myself crawling up as I was Yeah. Yeah. Love you, freaks. I got a couple more rips this week. No. I'll probably take a little bit of a break before Riga. Riga is gonna be loaded with rips. I love you all. You can keep track of what comes next on the show either at primal.net/odell on my Noster account, or our our dope seal dispatch matrix chat that is still running wild. All those links are at still dispatch.com. Huge, huge love, huge shout out to both Wiz and Simon and everyone at the mempool.space team, for what they built.
And huge shout out for you freaks for continuing to support the show. By the way, that song was Kenny Rogers in the first edition. I think it's called just dropped in. Yeah. Just dropped in. 1972. Legit. Anyway, I love you all. I hope you're building your strategic Bitcoin reserve personally, and, stay humble, StackSats. Peace.
This is the Bitcoin Reserve bill. I'm reading from the text in the senate of the United States to establish a bitcoin strategic reserve, a network of secure storage vaults, purchase program, and other programs to ensure the transparent management of bitcoin holdings of the Federal Government. My name is Cynthia Lemas, and I'm the Bitcoin senator. When Satoshi Nakamoto in January of 2009 mined the first bitcoin, he brought about an asset that will change the world. And this is our Louisiana Purchase Moment. This Bitcoin reserve that we're going to create will start with the 210,000 Bitcoin that president Trump just mentioned and pull it into a reserve stored in geographically diverse vaults.
And that's only the beginning. Over 5 years, the United States will assemble 1,000,000 bit point 5 percent of the world's supply. And it will be held for a minimum of 20 years and can be used for one purpose, Reduce our debt. This Bitcoin is going to be transformative for this country. As president Trump just said, we are printing too much money. We are spending too much money. We printed in 22 months during COVID the same amount of money that had ever been printed in the history of the will know more. With a strategic Bitcoin reserve, we will have an asset that in that period of time before 2045 can cut our debt in half.
[00:03:57] ODELL:
Happy Bitcoin Monday, freaks. It's your host, Odell, here for another little dispatch. The show focused on actionable Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion. It has been 2 months since last dispatch. Honestly, I've been focused on a lot of important shit, and I didn't have a good dispatch to do.
[00:04:21] ODELL:
And I don't wanna waste your guys' time. So, today, we have a great great conversation. We got great people in the house. I got Wiz here. How's it going, Wiz? Hey. What's up, Matt? Good to have you in Nashville. Always good to have you in Nashville. I got Soft Simon here. How's it going, Soft Simon? Great. Or just Simon? How's it going, Simon? Yeah. It's great to be back in Nashville. You can tell you hear how far he is? That's why we call him soft, Simon. Mhmm. That was center Lummis at Bitcoin 2024. Freaks, we we have your live chat up on this big ass screen. So we see your live chat, and instead, I'm just gonna keep our video big, and then I'm gonna switch the live chat when you guys zap large amounts.
So if you zap a large amount, it will be shown.
[00:05:16] ODELL:
But if you don't zap a large amount, it will not be shown, and we'll just keep the video. I think that's, like, a good compromise. What do you guys think? You think that's a good compromise?
[00:05:24] ODELL:
Of course. Because we can see the live chat.
[00:05:27] ODELL:
We do have a rider die freak, FOMO, both in the live chat, and he's actually, like, he's, like, he's, like, sitting, like, 5 feet away from us while he's chatting.
[00:05:38] ODELL:
So I'm not gonna take credit for that. I do see Lebanese Huddl in the chat.
[00:05:42] ODELL:
It was an honor and a privilege to meet him in person, and he deleted his Twitter.
[00:05:49] ODELL:
Who would do that? Yeah. I mean, you guys have a gold check on Twitter, but Lebanese Huddl deleted his Twitter.
[00:05:55] ODELL:
What does that say? There's something there. You wanna you really wanna talk about check marks? No. We we don't need to talk about check marks. I'm not even gonna hold it against you. But for the 3 that aren't aware, I did delete my Twitter. There's, like, 2 people that might not be aware of this because I do I'm a broke record about it. But, anyway, guys, this is gonna be a great rip. It was a crazy week. I'm gonna have more dispatches this week, starting with these guys. I wanted to start with the legends. I think I'm gonna have senator Hagerty of Tennessee on, probably the first politician on seal dispatchers is, like, a kind of crazy concept, to have politicians on civil dispatch, but the this is the new era we're in. I think I'm gonna have the Tennessee attorney general on, both Hagerty senator Hagerty, and the attorney general were here at Bitcoin Park. They talked about how they want FreedomTech to be, built in America and, FreedomTech developers to feel protected here.
The attorney general himself said he's willing to sue the federal government to protect open source developers. If he has to do that. He says it's a a a key aspect of his job. It's just a crazy concept. And, of course, we had senator Lummis of Wyoming in our intro talking about the strategic Bitcoin reserve, which I think everyone in this room right now. By the way, we have, like, a powerhouse in this room right now, on camera and off camera. We've all been building our own personal strategic Bitcoin reserves. I think that's just the coolest way of calling your own Bitcoin stack. You know, it's like It's a stockpile.
[00:07:47] Unknown:
Yeah. Like,
[00:07:48] ODELL:
you have a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Mempool has a strategic Bitcoin reserve. It's strategic, and it's Bitcoin. It's a reserve. Awesome. We're all trying to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible. So, guys, welcome to solo dispatch. It's a pleasure and honor to have you. Welcome back to Nashville. Dude, what a crazy week it was. That that was a hell of a conference. It's a ridiculous week. We're gonna talk to all things man pool, all things transaction fee market, everything you guys are building. But before we get there, let's can we just talk about this week a little bit? Because I I I feel like I haven't decompressed yet.
[00:08:29] Unknown:
It was all blur. I mean, there were some nights I just got zero sleep. It was, nonstop.
[00:08:36] ODELL:
No sleep?
[00:08:37] Unknown:
Some nights. Yeah. I mean, between, like, the you know, in between the the beef steak and getting the accelerator online, and then I gotta make my deck to go talk on stage. And So what'd you guys do what'd you guys do for Trump's speech? I mean, look. Regardless of what you think about
[00:08:54] ODELL:
former president Trump, he's gonna most likely be the next president of the United States, the most powerful country in the world. And he spoke at a Bitcoin conference. What'd you think of that speech?
[00:09:06] Unknown:
Yeah. It's, it's about time that the, powerful people are coming to the Bitcoiners. Right?
[00:09:12] ODELL:
I know my mic is very quiet, so I'm trying to enunciate. I apologize. They're both on a louder mic than I'm on, but I I took one for the team.
[00:09:32] Unknown:
Yeah. That conference was, like a blur. It was just a non stop. And and all the side events and the parties and the beefsteaks and the house gatherings. Are you even plugged in? I'm plugged in.
[00:09:45] ODELL:
I'm plugged in. I think I need to scream. I'm gonna scream this whole episode. We have, to the audio files to the audio files listening, we have only 2 cloud lifters at Bitcoin Park, and I gave them both to the guests. So I'm gonna be lighter on the on the mic. I'm gonna be way lighter on the mic than the rest of the people. So
[00:10:16] Unknown:
I'm just gonna Why don't you just take this one, and we'll show you this one so you don't have to yell. You wanna do that? Yeah. Should we do that? I mean, it's right here. And then something I'll just show this one.
[00:10:31] Unknown:
Yep. Good.
[00:10:34] ODELL:
Does this work? Is this better? Now I could be quieter. I don't know if I speak in all caps. Capsodel is Okay, guys. Is that better? Do you think that's better? What do what do we say, freaks? I I we were watching the live chat. Hates the loud mic. Oh my god. So much better. Okay. Should we start over? Welcome back to Scylla Dispatch, the show focused on actual Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion. I'm your host, Odell. Here after a 2 month hiatus, we're gonna be going going deep, deep on what happened this week and also going deep on what's happening with mempool space. Ride or Die Freak Wiz has handed me his mic because Bitcoin Park only has 2 cloud lifters. We're expecting a major Bitcoin bull market, so we didn't wanna spend $200 on another cloud lifter. So we only have 2 of those.
And this is wonderful. This is great that I don't have to scream for however many hours we go for. We are gonna be going deep. I hope you guys enjoyed senator Lummis as our intro. To me, that this is unreal. Like, she was she she graciously came to Bitcoin Park, and it wasn't the first time I met her, but, she's on a mission. She's on a mission to to to make Bitcoin the standard. She is truly our Bitcoin senator. It's weird to be involved with politicians. I will say that, once once the open source developers open source Bitcoin developers started going to jail, I I realized we really have no choice but to play the game. And it's all kind of accelerated quite quickly.
I know some people will not forgive me for that. But to me, it's like, if if not us, then who? So so, Wiz, when you're when you're when you're thinking about so, I I mean, let we gotta talk about Trump. We gotta talk about Trump just real quickly. Talking about Trump. And then we can get into it. I mean, it's Monday. Trump spoke on Saturday, epic win 2024. The likely future president of the United States. What'd you what'd you think about that speech?
[00:12:48] Unknown:
That was, very surreal. It was intense to be there watching him. Like, basically, like, the most powerful guy in the world coming to our party. And literally, I'm on stage, like, right before Trump is. Like, in what timeline does that make sense? And, yeah, just seeing the whole experience, like, backstage too, Seeing, like, the Secret Service Army with all the machine guns and everything. I mean, that that's what you don't really see. Where were you backstage during it?
[00:13:15] ODELL:
Well, I was I was backstage a couple hours before Trump went on. And they were back there? Oh, there's, like, very You were like, do you know who I am? I run the mempool.
[00:13:23] Unknown:
They,
[00:13:25] ODELL:
they let me on. Yeah. You're like, you need your transaction accelerated like I'm your guy.
[00:13:30] Unknown:
There was, there was some very interesting things. Like, right before my talk or a couple of talks with when I was Max and Stacy Kaiser were on. Yeah. And after they finished their talk, Max tried to take a candy bar off of this table. Oh, that's his candy bar. That was Trump's candy bar. And all these secrets have been like, no. No. No. You can't touch it. You know, I guess they're worried about someone putting some poison candy bar there or something. No. No. No. He has you know how, like,
[00:13:53] ODELL:
musicians have this too? It's like they have their rider in their contract about what they need if they speak. And his rider was like well, from what I've heard, his rider was like a couple bags of Lay's potato chips, like, a couple Hershey bars and some gummy bears. Like, that was and, like, those were his. Like, you were A Diet Coke or something like that. Yeah. You weren't allowed to grab those. Yeah. But Those were his. It wasn't like a security issue. Like, those were his that was his food. He were trying to take his food from him. I don't know. I've never seen so much security because he had, like,
[00:14:27] Unknown:
what, Trump's security and RFK security and Elon's security and all the private security. I mean, Elon didn't show up. You heard what happened with Elon. Right? Tell us.
[00:14:36] ODELL:
I mean, so I was I was the hour before. Right? Like, I was on the live desk during the delay, streaming out to, like, millions of people, talking to them about what happens next. And we were expecting a special guest. That the special guest was gonna be Elon. And, supposedly, Elon, like, flew in, descended, and then he went into, like, the descent pattern like he was gonna land, and his security was on-site, and then he took back off. Like, he never landed, and then just went to Memphis, Tennessee. So he trolled the future president the likely future president of the United States. Why would he me personally, as someone who deleted my Twitter, many many might know.
Many might not know, but I I did delete my Twitter. Tell us, Matt. All caps. You know he means it. Thank you, chief White. I was just really excited to comment afterwards
[00:15:38] Unknown:
on the livestream. That was so cool because it was like, all of a sudden, all of a sudden just put Odell on, and there's probably millions of people watching the livestream. And I'm like, alright, this is Odell's time to shine. I was I was like, I was did alright. I hope I made people proud. Oh, yeah. I tried my best. I retweeted your I know you can't see it since you don't have a Twitter account, but I retweeted it. Send me screenshots. I would love to see. You got this, beautiful grin on your face. Oh, I was so happy. You're so happy. Moment.
[00:16:05] ODELL:
I look, I think people take this a little bit too seriously. I mean, look, I have friends in jail that I would like to be out of jail. I think the stakes are quite high, but also at the same time, like, it's fucking insane that, like, at a Bitcoin conference, we have the likely next president of the United States coming to speak. That that is unreal. Like, even a year ago, you wouldn't expect that. It doesn't really matter what he says to me. Yeah. It Doesn't really matter what he says. Bailey is a g evil genius. Evil genius. Yeah. Got the president
[00:16:40] Unknown:
and, like, 10 senators
[00:16:42] ODELL:
to just come to our Bitcoin party. We had so many I mean, I will say, personally, I know senator Lummis. I know senator Hagerty. I know senator Blackburn. Those are the 3 senators I know. I didn't I didn't realize you were such a statist. They care. No. No. Well, senator senator Hagerty and senator Blackburn are state of Tennessee, and the Tennessee politicians, they actually I think they actually do care. Like, they want Tennessee to happen. Senator Lummis, I has been a big corner for a while, and and
[00:17:16] Unknown:
I do think she has her back. Now Lummis is great. I have this, photo of her. She tweeted, it's in her office where she's got mempool up on the TV in the office and all the staff around it with, like, pizza or something. And, they're getting a a like a class on how Bitcoin works using mempool space in her office. Yeah. There you go. I mean, look. Really? I think Bitcoin doesn't need politicians.
[00:17:42] ODELL:
But if you're an American and you're a public Bitcoiner and you're trying to build and support Bitcoin businesses, like, it's it's a massive positive sign. Like, you you need to it it is important to work with them, and they can be important allies. Oh, absolutely. You gotta you gotta have the government on board for as long as possible
[00:18:05] Unknown:
for the highest chance of success Exactly. Of the Bitcoin movement just winning against fiat. Right? I mean, that's what we're all trying to win
[00:18:13] ODELL:
is defeating the money printers. Yeah. And, I mean, I wanna free the samurai devs. Like, I think I think they they shouldn't be in jail. I think they're clearly not money transmitter businesses. And I think that if you look at open source development right now, the main thing open source contributors are thinking about is legal liability for open source code. And I think the issue that we see right now in America and across the globe is that these rules are very vague because we've never seen this before. We've never seen the ability, for people to use self custody open source software, to send money around the world, and those that type of software should not be treated as money service businesses.
So it it's an education element, but I think also it's a it's a chance to explain to politicians why encouraging and facilitating and making it possible for open source projects to flourish in your jurisdiction is good for is good for your people and is good for the people your constituents, for the people that you work with. Right? And and I I think we're starting to make real progress there. I think this conference was a major part of that. I think Trump's speech was largely disappointing for a lot of people. I think most of us probably haven't listened to a full Trump speech before, and that is probably why.
He did say that Bitcoin was gonna surpass gold in value, which is an insane thing for the future president of the United States to say. Or, like, at least it would have been the same a year ago. Now it's just what they say, I guess.
[00:19:57] Unknown:
It's it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Whatever the president says, he, like, even he makes some kind of promise that he's gonna do something. Even if he doesn't actually do it, the market's gonna move so strongly on that announcement.
[00:20:11] ODELL:
Well, that's the cool part. Right? It's like it doesn't require you to believe in the promise. The one promise that I hope to see, and he recommitted it, is is commuting Ross's sentence. On day 1? On day 1. And I think an important important thing to keep in mind there is that this is not a pardon. He's not saying he's not guilty. He's just saying that time served is enough. But 15 years, a lot of time in solitary confinement is enough, and that we should commute him day 1. I think that's important, but we have to rely on him for that. We don't have to rely on him in terms of him saying strategic Bitcoin reserve or him saying that Bitcoin's gonna surpass gold because that actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Like, he's only like, if he does win, it's 7 months from now, like, that he becomes president.
And the market's gonna I think the market is gonna react to this in a It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt. It definitely doesn't hurt. President to be pumped. No matter what, it's just an it's just like an unreal experience. I thought they did a decent job, with the open source stage this year. I thought HRF leading it was a great great
[00:21:22] Unknown:
great move. It was almost as good as when you ran the open source stage. 1st year that I didn't run it.
[00:21:30] ODELL:
So I'm I'm glad it was in good hands in that regard. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm quietly bullish. You guys can call me status. You guys can call me Illuminati, whatever. Like, I I wish you guys were doing it instead of me,
[00:21:47] Unknown:
but, someone's gotta I'm bullish. Get involved. The re reality is that the rest of the world is also watching what US is doing. Exactly. Because US is the biggest economy, and everyone's just following what you when US is going after Bitcoin or shutting it up, banning mining, whatever, all all the other countries are gonna do as well.
[00:22:04] Unknown:
So That's true. Like, if you look at Japan, they Yep. Are so into shitcoins and web 3 and d five, whatever. You know? Like, the government approves Ripple, but nobody's really supporting Bitcoin in Japan. So now that Trump is talking about Bitcoin Reserve and things, it would be great if Japan copied them. Right? Yeah. Japan just copy first. Right?
[00:22:26] Unknown:
Okay. I saw the headline news, in a Swedish newspaper yesterday saying Trump promised to make a strategic Right. Bitcoin reserve and make US the Bitcoin capital. So you're gonna have a lot of people, voters and politicians saying, hey. We don't wanna be worse.
[00:22:42] ODELL:
Right. It's gonna it's gonna have yeah. They have to catch up because they're gonna see the industry just moving to US and and feel everyone's just left behind. It's a weird situation to be a part of, to, like, witness. I mean, well, like, 3 years ago, we were excited about the president of El Salvador, a country of 6,000,000 people being, like, we're gonna adopt Bitcoin.
[00:23:02] Unknown:
And then and Now it's America. My beer. I'm gonna buy all the Bitcoin. 3 years later.
[00:23:08] ODELL:
And then people are, like, oh, we're disappointed. Like, RFK was, like, he's gonna buy 4,000,000. Senator Lummis said 1,000,000 Bitcoin.
[00:23:16] Unknown:
1,000,000 Bitcoin over 5 years. There's an infinite amount of money at the Federal Reserve.
[00:23:21] ODELL:
Sure. It's it's micro strategy with the money printer. But do you think what Trump said he actually believed was someone just told him to say this because Bitcoin is gonna be happening. Yeah. Sure. But it it become once again, I think it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? It's like so Trump says it, and then, like, Trump's alkalites, like, all the podcasters and everything. Right? Like, they're like, oh, we like the coin now. Trump likes the coin. We like the coin. And then all their audience is like, oh, oh, podcaster said Trump likes the coin. I and podcast likes the coin. I like the coin. And then Trump's like, oh my god. My people like the coin. I like the coin. You just go full circle. And then all the other countries are obviously all watching it. Money manager, all watching it.
[00:24:03] Unknown:
He once again, he said that Bitcoin's gonna surpass gold. And, which is crazy. Works, right? Fiat is just a decree of the government. So if Trump is a president and he says Bitcoin is amazing,
[00:24:14] ODELL:
then it's true, Right? Yeah. Like, Bitcoin is amazing. It. It's like, oh, well, Trump said it's legit. So, alright, let's get some. Yeah. Once again, I don't think it's necessary. Like, I don't think Bitcoin needs the permission. But it's pretty darn hard. Yeah. I think it accelerates things.
[00:24:30] Unknown:
I think it accelerates things. Are you are you interested in accelerating things, Matt? I I think
[00:24:37] ODELL:
I think when you think about it, like, if we have I mean, look. I said on the stream. I said on the stream that I'm a single issue voter. My my single issue is freedom. And I have never had a presidential candidate in my lifetime that has run on that, and I hope that changes soon. I don't think Trump is that candidate. I'm not gonna come out here and be like, I'm incredibly pro Trump. But I do think it was a paradigm shift. I think it is underappreciated. I think we're gonna look back in 20, 30 years and be like, that was the moment that a lot of things changed. And I think it's just part of Bitcoin's adoption cycle. And I think that is particularly when you have a current US administration that is incredibly hostile to Bitcoin, that is incredibly hostile to Freedom Tech, that is incredibly hostile to open source developers, and particularly as an American Bitcoiner that is heavily invested in the space through 1031 and through my work at Open Sats, which I make no money on, but I spend a lot of time on, and time is the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin, is incredibly optimistic. Like, it is it is what you wanna see. Like, I don't wanna spend I don't wanna spend the next like, it's hard enough funding FreedomTech without a hostile administration, without a hostile government. But you add a hostile government to it, it makes it so much more difficult.
And so so for those incentives to align and to have him at the conference, to have the many senators at the conference, the many politicians at the conference that understand the incentives at play, that understand that if we want the next great American century, we we need to be pro innovation, that we need to be pro Bitcoin, that we need to be pro open source is incredibly bullish. And, like, that's just a pragmatic view. That's not you know, plenty of people are gonna accuse me of Coke. Like, it's like ridiculous. Whatever. I'm I'm glad you guys are the are the first the first, civil dispatch after this week because
[00:26:51] Unknown:
it's pretty crazy. I'm seeing it seeing a very important question in the chat.
[00:26:56] ODELL:
Yeah. Let me pull the chat back up. You didn't zap enough, by the way, but I'm still gonna pull the chat up. What thoughts on country music? What booth booth stood at you at the conference?
[00:27:07] Unknown:
Is that the important question? It's the light latest one without zaps.
[00:27:11] ODELL:
I have a question for Simon. What was your favorite part of your visit to Nashville, chief White? Pancake Pantry. Really? You like pancake pantry? I feel like it's a little heavy. It is. You know? Like But I'm very rarely in the US and Nashville and Big pancake pantry guy? Miso. Okay. Pancake pantry. That was Simon's favorite thing. What are your thoughts on country music since, project 2 product, a zap 420 sets? What? My thought on country music? I like I like the You like the honky tonk, like the country music? Music.
[00:27:49] Unknown:
What booth stood stood out? Well, I think the foundry booth stood out. It was in the middle and was largest.
[00:27:54] ODELL:
That's true. They had a very nice booth. So I mean, I think foundry in general is doing a really great job. Yeah. Like, to me, Foundry was always the evil empire until, like, couple years ago.
[00:28:04] Unknown:
Foundry evil? Why? Barry Silbert,
[00:28:07] ODELL:
segwit 2 x. Well, that's Suits, KYC, Miners. VCG, and and historical We're the owners of Foundry. I don't know. I my point is feel good to me. My point is my whole point is that they've they've become the leading by example, like, what you wanna see actually. Like, I my my whole point was that my opinion of them has completely changed. There are a lot worse mining pool,
[00:28:35] Unknown:
operate like, you you could be so evil as a mining pool operator. And they're cool. You know, they started by giving us a grant in the early days to develop a lot of mining related functionality in the Mempool open source project. And then slowly over the years, we developed the transaction accelerator together with Foundry and then to launch it, you know, wide open to the whole world. I mean, they're great. And
[00:28:56] ODELL:
maybe I'm biased, but I think you'd be a lot worse. Not gonna name any names, but No. No. I think they're crushing it. I I I I would go further than that. Like, I think they're just I think they're leading by example right now, and I'm incredibly impressed with what Foundry is building out. I mean, Foundry recently released their open source funding program, where any minors of Foundry have a drop down, and OpenSats obviously included. We helped iterate and test out that implementation with them. But they can do a drop down, and they can pick how much of their rewards go to open source development, in a very low friction way, which is fucking awesome. I mean, I think they've led the way with Stratham v 2, which I think is incredibly important for the space.
And just more and more, I'm just impressed with what Foundry is building. We had a bunch of the leadership here at the park this week. By the way, Freaks, I know I've taken a break from dispatch. Look. It's been the summer. I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna burden you guys with bad conversation. I just I want good conversation only on dispatch. If you're listening to me in your ear, it should be worth it. We have a bunch of great conversation that we're working on producing, that will be published to the civil dispatch feed, throughout the week. But we had just a who's who of of of both industry leaders and local politicians while we're on it, that were here.
And they will they they will all be broadcast feed. I had Michael Sailor himself came to,
[00:30:40] Unknown:
Bitcoin Park. Were you guys here for the Michael Sailor concert? Sure, and it was super cool. Did you enjoy it? I I really enjoyed it. See Michael's sailor up close, and you had a very interesting Packed house. Yeah.
[00:30:51] ODELL:
Packed house for for Michael. It was pretty funny. I think he's you know, I've, there's a lot of mutual respect there. We've had a lot of productive conversations recently. I thought it was kind of funny that, you know, when he walked in, like, the governor was speaking. So he was, like, 2nd fiddle. I don't think that's he's used to that. Like, the governor's security detail, particularly after, the Trump incident a few weeks ago was very serious. They they were serious people, and they they he the governor was number 1. Michael was number 2, and Michael had to come second. But that was a great conversation. That will be posted to the feed.
But yeah. Oh, yeah. We have MC in the chat, and also, like, Louie on the couch, like, 5 feet away from us, saying that it was an awesome time at Pickland Park. So Yeah. Pickland Park is obviously
[00:31:48] Unknown:
one of the better park better parts of Nashville.
[00:31:51] ODELL:
More of Bitcoin. Besides pancake pantry. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We got we got pancake pantry in Number 1. Park. Pancake pantry. Number 2. Close second. Close second, pick one park. Okay, guys. Okay. We talked enough about politicians. I do think shit is accelerating. Like, are is nation state FOMO upon us? Like, does things get
[00:32:12] Unknown:
I think so. I mean, El Salvador kind of started the trend, and now the US is gonna be the 2nd nation to do that.
[00:32:21] ODELL:
What about I mean, there's other, countries that have quietly started a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean, you remember Butanj showed up in the bankruptcy proceedings of,
[00:32:36] Unknown:
True. But of Celsius and But I think when it comes to, like, really serious Bitcoin stuff, like the entire country adopting the Bitcoin standard or the US adopting this this, strategic stockpile, whatever.
[00:32:51] ODELL:
That's that's huge. Yeah. I mean, it's clearly not Germany. Germany Germany sold all their coin. Yeah. They just Right before all this shit happened. El Salvador has more Bitcoin than Germany. No. Okay. Can we talk can we talk I mean, while we're talking about nation state adoption, are you really a nation state that has a strategic Bitcoin reserve if you don't have your own hosted mempool instance?
[00:33:16] Unknown:
That's true. You can go to bitcoin.gob.sv
[00:33:21] ODELL:
to see the Bitcoin office of El Salvador's custom instance of the mempool open source project. And I love that they buy they buy 1 Bitcoin per day, which is, like, if if if you're a small country, that is the most meme worthy Bitcoin accumulation strategy. It's just it's literally just staircase. It just goes up constantly forever. It's just like 1 Bitcoin per day just
[00:33:46] Unknown:
up into the right. They're they're following your strategy perfectly. They're staying humble and stacking
[00:33:51] ODELL:
Stacking sets? They're stacking whole coins, though. They're they're stacking 100,000,000 sets per stack, but they're still stacking sets. I mean, one day, maybe we'll see I mean, the US government owns the dot gov suffix. Right? Oh, yeah. That actually So we might have bitcoin.gov
[00:34:08] Unknown:
is some MAMPUS empowered. Yeah. That's the truth. Ask Trump about that?
[00:34:13] Unknown:
I'm sorry. That's confidential. I can't review. Wait. Hey. He might be listening.
[00:34:18] ODELL:
Mister president, we would love to have bitcoin.gov, be a self hosted mempool instance.
[00:34:26] Unknown:
Yeah. That's, that's the dream, right, that the US does this strategic Bitcoin reserve, and they self host their own instance of mempool. And, they have a nice ladder on there too. Although they're probably different shape than a ladder or a stepladder. It's gonna be Just up. Just just like a hockey stick. It's a straight, I can say. I would say one thing,
[00:34:47] ODELL:
and I don't think a lot I'll ever win this argument with our politicians, but it is a little bit concerning that they're starting it with 200 k c's Bitcoin, which is, like, mostly Bitfinex's Bitcoin
[00:35:04] Unknown:
from the greatest rapper of all time. A 60102 attack. Right? They're gonna say, oh, yeah. We need to confiscate everyone's Bitcoin for our strategic stockpile. Yeah. I I Because they're hoarding Bitcoin. That's exactly what I would I would like a policy that said, if you seize Bitcoin, it has to be burned.
[00:35:21] ODELL:
They will never do that. I mean, the president is kinda set. They do burn cocaine. Like, they don't sell the cocaine, back to the to the market. They just straight up burn it, and you can prudently burn it. It would be good to see that. Short of that, it'd be great if we had a law that said, sees Bitcoin had to be donated to Open Sats. That's pretty good. I would like that. We probably won't get that either. I'm down for a three way split between HRF, Brink, and Open Sats. Like, I'd be cool with that as well. Probably will never get that. But, yeah, they're gonna start with the seized Bitcoin. That was a little bit weird with Trump. He was like, they took they took your Bitcoin. And they're like, yeah. And I'm gonna put it in the treasury.
He was like, he he he, like, almost was like, we shouldn't take your Bitcoin, but then he was like, no. No. No. But I'm gonna keep it. They took it, but I'm gonna keep it. But that was a little bit odd.
[00:36:17] Unknown:
I mean, it's it's kind of how the government would do a 6102 attack. Right? They would use their surveillance powers and use their monopoly on violence
[00:36:27] Unknown:
and say, you're a criminal. We're gonna seize your Bitcoin. Yeah. And now it's our big point. Bitcoin reserve. Yeah. Right? And everyone loves a strategic Bitcoin reserve. I love the terms strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean yeah. Do you get better than better than that they just sell just like the Germans did. Like, sell it and it distribute it among all the plebs. No. Just burn it. Burn it. Burning is distribution.
[00:36:48] ODELL:
Yeah. That's true. Burning is even better because you you take away that incentive. Right? They can't even use it. Yeah. I mean, one of the cool things that senator Lummis did say was that the strategic Bitcoin reserve can only be used for paying down the debt. You can't use it for a 1000000 different, government expenditures. Right? Like, you can't use it for war. You can't use it for, I don't know, what whatever, like, salaries for senators, shit. So I like that aspect. I like that you said you can only use it for that. So let's put more liens on it. Let's say, like, oh, you can't if you seize, you can't take it.
But I that'll probably never happen. Yeah. Like, donate Josh has got a good point in the chat. Donate the Bitcoin to Open SaaS. Never gonna happen, but a man could try. I make no money from Open SaaS, so, like, it's not it's not paying me. It's paying open source developers that need it.
[00:37:52] Unknown:
You give out any cool grants recently?
[00:37:55] ODELL:
Do we give out any cool grants recently? Yeah. We gave out a lot of cool grants recently. Well, you can go to opensats.org. If you go to opensats.org, we have a great blog that lists our recent grants. I know we gave, a long term support grant for Noster. And, by the way, I never really talk about individual grants and, like, the specifics about it. Grant recipients actually ask for how much money they want. If we had Jeff is on the NOSR Committee, he can see what other people ask for for grants, which is a concern. Right? It's like a corruption concern to a degree. I mean, I think we were insulated by that because OpenSats requires 5 of 9 board members to approve any grant regardless.
He asked for a lot less than, like, a lot of other people get. He's a humble guy. Right? Yeah. I mean, I was really impressed. I like, to the point where I was like, dude, you should ask for more. He's like, I'm I'm good. This is, like, a good amount. So I'm glad we supported him. We supported Hadelbad, who's awesome, also in the Nostra community. Those obviously come out of our Nostra fund, recently out of the Bitcoin the Bitcoin grants out of our general fund. We supported Enuance, which is a great Cashew project. We supported Blitz Wallet, fantastic lightning project.
We supported, VLS, validating lightning signer, which is the way to take, instead of lightning while it's being hot, they're working on making it, you can have your keys cold, and you can sign channel opens and channel closes, which I think is, like, quietly really important and impossible to monetize project because you need it to be open, and there's no way you can be in the flow of funds.
[00:40:03] Unknown:
That issue isn't solved yet with having cold storage on your lightning node running a running node, for example. No. You need to you need to have,
[00:40:14] ODELL:
you you need to have your keys hot right now. Like, all the routing nodes are all hot, which is crazy. Like, particularly as Bitcoin increases in price, it's more and more purchasing power are on these large routing nodes. Like, if you think like Asynx node, for instance. Right? Like Phoenix's node. Like, there's a shit ton of Bitcoin on that node, and it's all a hot wallet. And and back in our day, the rule of thumb was very simple. It was like you keep small amounts in the hot wallet, and you keep the majority in the cold wallet, never connect to the Internet. And lightning changed that, dynamic. It was like more and more money is in the hot wall, and you have no choice in validating, like, the Sandro's. Own personal lightning node, then you probably don't need that much liquidity. But, yeah, if you're an Yeah. This is for the routing. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. But let's say you have a point of sale
[00:41:08] Unknown:
system and accept only accepting, then you can use this kind of cold storage solution that and set rules on it that it should only sign transaction when you have in incoming transactions, for example. So you don't can't get hacked. Someone just drain all your funds because then some rule kicking that just blocks that.
[00:41:26] ODELL:
Yeah. I like that. But you need to have a signer that is able to do that. Yeah. And so that's what VLS is working on. I mean, at this point, OpenSats now is supporting almost 200 open source contributors.
[00:41:40] Unknown:
Did you ever, sponsor the Memploop open source project?
[00:41:44] ODELL:
Did you guys apply?
[00:41:46] Unknown:
No. I think opensas.org No. I think slash apply. I think when we were doing the grants and the sponsors
[00:41:53] ODELL:
was before OpenSats started. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and now you guys What year did you start? Now you guys are a sustainable Sats flow business. Like, we're we're, like that's what we're gonna talk about, I think. But you guys are actually still welcome to apply. Like, you are well within the mandate of of of open SaaS, which is an open source project. That funding for people. Yeah. Because you guys are ethical and amazing. But you I I don't think I I think the fact that there is a business model that exists doesn't preclude you from applying.
And and to be clear, 1031 is the largest investor of mempool. So I would recuse myself from that decision. And we have a full audit trail with all of our votes. But I I don't I don't think I think that's the goal. I think it would be great to have more open like, to me, the cool part about mempool Yep. Is that it's this beautiful dream of an open source project that has a path to sustainable funding that doesn't require grants. And I think that didn't exist before Bitcoin. And, I mean, I that's what we're gonna discuss. So let's talk about that. You have something to say before we talk about that?
[00:43:08] Unknown:
No. I think there's some open source projects you can monetize and some you can't. Like you're saying, if there's some VLS or You can't monetize validating Lightning signer. It it's if it's gonna be like a protocol level project. How do you how do you monetize
[00:43:25] ODELL:
separating keys from signing on a hot? It's like a library or a protocol
[00:43:30] Unknown:
thing. Even Bitcoin Core. I mean, you can't really
[00:43:33] ODELL:
you never monetize Bitcoin Core.
[00:43:36] Unknown:
And so if you're like an application, which is what mempool is, then I think you have a shot. And there's very, very successful open source companies like MySQL was acquired for a $1,000,000,000 or even, Red Hat Enterprise Linux was, like, 20 something $1,000,000,000. Yeah. But their model was, like, support. Right? Yeah. That's a valid business model for an open source project. I mean, we do that. We have an enterprise offering.
[00:43:59] ODELL:
Yeah. Lots of
[00:44:02] Unknown:
lots of customers actually on Mempool Enterprise now. Some you might have heard of.
[00:44:08] ODELL:
Chief White mentioned Shotgun Willie's. That's the best best best Texas barbecues in Nashville, and it's called Choco and Willie's. I like how it's the best Texas barbecue in Nashville. They're actually former Texans, and they moved to Nashville, and that's great barbecue. Yeah. I mean, there's certain projects that have a chance to monetize, and there's certain don't. And then there's certain projects that only have a chance to monetize because Bitcoin exists. And I would say mempool is kind of on the bleeding edge of that with the transaction accelerator. So should we talk about let's let's jump into the transaction accelerator a bit. Like, I it's now public. Right? Like, what was this? Like, 2 days ago? Yeah. So if we start at the beginning when Simon and I first
[00:44:52] Unknown:
cofounded the mempool open source project back in 2019, The mempool was empty, and we were just kind of developing the project in the early days. But at some at sometimes, the mempool would get congested, and we would suddenly get 9,000 messages from people who thought we were the mempool and ran the mempool and could magically confirm their. Account. Or just reached out for support because they were desperate. Right? Yeah. And so at some point, I'm like, oh, well, maybe we should just do that as a service and, like, charge the money to confirm their transactions. And so at the time, the mempool was mostly empty. Like Catan's famous tweet, you could always do one sat per v byte and get it confirmed in the next block. So why would you build a transaction accelerator? But we were always kind of ahead ahead of the curve in in the terms of the mempool stuff, Especially, like, the first few years of the project, mempool is completely empty, but we just kept building it anyway because we knew in the future it would be very relevant. And just like we know the accelerator is gonna be super relevant in the future, we've been building over the past past few years. Yeah. I mean, when did we start the idea for the accelerator? I guess it's 2020.
[00:46:05] Unknown:
Yeah. I think you started pitching the idea of building an accelerator. And I remember back then, I didn't think of any, like, way reasonable way to monetize the project because we have a no ad policy, for example. So we can't put any ads. We can't have any error. I like that. We can't have a mempool token. We can't have any of that. So I couldn't really come up with any great idea. And I think
[00:46:28] ODELL:
given all the messages Damn it. Can't have a token. Can't come out with any great idea. Store is donation
[00:46:34] Unknown:
based, maybe, like, grants based. But,
[00:46:37] Unknown:
And we did get all the grants in the early days that we could. I mean, the project was very popular as soon as the mempool got full, and and everyone was very generous. And we got grants from Spiral and, Foundry and Unchained and Blockstream and Gemini and, you know, everybody was was very generous and supportive of us. And I also contribute it personally. That's true. Odell is the number 1 The first one. OG sponsor.
[00:47:04] ODELL:
First one. Technically, Jameson sent first, but I paid a higher fee. But he's second. I paid a higher fee. Mine confirmed first. Nice. Yeah. You're Which is more important.
[00:47:15] Unknown:
It's because it's settled. Thank you for sponsoring the Memplo. You're welcome. I made it all possible. But actually, our biggest sponsor was probably Jack Dorsey over the years, both individually and Many such cases. Spirals, grant program. And then later, we made deals to power the, Bitkey wallet back end for the hardware wallet they developed. So cool that you guys know that. Yeah. And now we're just, you know, kind of doing mempool space for all of the the Jack Dorsey Companies.
[00:47:47] ODELL:
I mean, we have a slide when that we shared investors at 10:31. It was, like, different partnerships among 10:31 portfolio companies. And it's literally just, like, mempool in the middle, and you guys just have lines to Yeah. We have 36 portfolio companies, like, 34 of them. You have lines too.
[00:48:08] Unknown:
It's insane. But when people go to the website, they don't really see, the whole enterprise offering of it all. Like, the infrastructure that we have built up is, allowing us to provide this, like, reliable API infrastructure to a ton of companies and businesses like Bitkey for the wallet back end. And that's not, and that's helping us funding the, finance, financing the project. Right? And that's not really what a lot of people are seeing because a lot of people ask me constantly, but how do you make money? How do you guys make money? Because they only see this free available.
Right. Completely free website with no ads,
[00:48:45] ODELL:
with no service. It's what we use for the background of, so dispatch.
[00:48:53] Unknown:
Yeah. That's a nice, we made that for the Bitcoin conference last year, actually. We had that giant clock tower, and it was running this,
[00:49:01] ODELL:
circular clock face. And then you custom made this nice chat thing for me. I I think it's cool. I love it. I think it's great. By the way, if you're listening, I see we have a couple thousand listeners in the YouTube chat. If you go to nostril, the the live chat that is shown is the nostril live chat. So that's sidledispatch.com /stream. And if you go to sidledispatch.com, you have all the links you need, for everything. Yeah. So Bill is asking Bill paid a 1,000 sats for this question. So And he paid he paid with lightning, so we don't have to wait for it to confirm. Yeah.
[00:49:43] Unknown:
Can you send a 0 sat per v byte fee and pay the lightning invoice to get into a block? So currently, your transaction already has to be on mempool.space's mempool. So what is the fee button? And a 0 set per byte would not get in there. So currently, we're just running the stock bit by default. A 1 sapper byte, they could do that. That's correct. If you do one sapper view byte, you can get you can broadcast it directly to our node, and then you could accelerate. In the future, we'll probably expand the accelerator to do a little bit more,
[00:50:16] Unknown:
nonstandard stuff like I mean, that's fine. Like, they could pay once separately. You have the new, like, mempool policy of you can see BFP group Child pays for personal billing. Package relay. Yeah. Yeah. So you can actually have a 0 fee transaction that is getting bumped by a higher fee, and you can broadcast those 2 transaction together. And then suddenly the first one that's 0 set will be a valid Bitcoin transaction, and then you can accelerate
[00:50:40] ODELL:
this group together. Let's pull it back for a second. So there's there's currently 200,000 plus transactions that are unconfirmed. Right. Effectively, if you send a Bitcoin transaction, you're in a waiting list to get confirmed. Those that waiting list is mempools, and those mempools exist on everyone's notes. Right? And it's it's and, particularly, it sits on miners' nodes, and the miners are usually taking the highest fee transactions, are are are are are getting included in the next block and getting confirmed. You can imagine if you went to a restaurant, and the waiting list for the restaurant was based on how much you bid to enter the restaurant.
And that is what how Bitcoin works, and it's how we deal with scarce block space. So based on this concept, and based on the increasing adoption of Bitcoin, as per our earlier conversation, we actually have future presidents, likely future presidents, talking about Bitcoin strategic reserves. I believe this waiting list will never clear, and there will always be a forever waiting list. The beauty of this mempool accelerator is that if you are stuck in the waiting list and you send a transaction and you're you're, like, number 155,000 in the line, you can just open mempool.space in your browser, click a transaction, and it'll pop up a nice little lightning invoice. And you can just scan that lightning invoice, and you'll get into the next block.
That is fucking cool, guys. Well fucking done. That is impressive.
[00:52:20] Unknown:
It was a lot of work, many years of hard work to get to that point where, yeah, you can just push a button and and accelerate it to the front of the line. But,
[00:52:29] ODELL:
we got Cheapway with 21,000 SaaS. I'm gonna go back to the chat on the live stream. Boom. Done. That's awesome. Yeah. So the
[00:52:37] Unknown:
accelerator was something we built over many years. It was, you know, of course, developing the mining dashboard functionality, the block visualization, the block audit functionality. The block audit's key. Yeah. Absolutely. Because we have to implement the accelerator in an open and transparent way to pass our, you know, ethics rules. And so we did it to the best of our ability, putting everything in the open and making it fully auditable using our own open source software that we put out there so that you don't have to trust mempool space to not do any shenanigans. You can just audit the audit that we show on Emplespace.
And so, yeah, we got a question from Bill. It would be nice to send a coin joined 1,000,000 sat UTXL with a lightning invoice. If it's one sat preview, but it breaks out UTXO. Yeah. There's probably tons of use cases that you could, do with 0 sat
[00:53:37] ODELL:
0 zero fee transactions again. Right? Well, why don't they just do according to transaction when they pay 1 sapro bite and boom. Done. I don't understand the question. You'll have to ask, Bill. That. I mean, you I mean, you answered the question because he spoke in caps, which, I mean, says a lot just there.
[00:53:54] Unknown:
Yeah. I think he wants to keep it like a nice round number. Right? Like, sometimes when you look at coin joints, they're all
[00:54:01] ODELL:
one with the sets except for, like, one that had to pay the fees or It had to pay the fee. Right? So it kind of ruins a little bit of the anonymity set maybe? Yeah. I mean, I guess, but I think at the end of the day, you you pay yeah. Look. We had a Lebanese Huddl saying fantastic view. The the design is so it's exactly what you would expect. It doesn't require BTC sessions to do, like, a 2 hour video about it. Like, it would be the most boring video because it's so obvious. Like, you just go to the transaction at mempool.space, and you press the accelerate button, and an invoice pops up, and then you open your lightning wallet and you pay it.
Right? And I I think you guys should be commended on that. Like, it's just incredibly clean UX, and it did take a lot of work.
[00:54:45] Unknown:
And It's it's very simple, but it's a huge system underneath that took a long time and just getting everything to work and handle all the edge cases and the
[00:54:55] ODELL:
attack vectors and the way people can screw with it. Yeah. Can we talk about how it works a little
[00:54:59] Unknown:
bit? It's very simple. Yeah. It's a Rube Goldberg machine. There's this built in command in Bitcoin Core called prioritize transaction. So we're sending the transaction ID to the mining pool partners with the new fee fee rate. Right. And they just call Bitcoin Core and prioritize that transaction in their mem And then you pay the mining pool partners. And after the transaction is confirmed
[00:55:28] ODELL:
with whoever minds that we settle that, like, each month or so. Then you send them once a month, do you send them the stats or how does that work? Is that too much information? Should I just you kinda rolled your eyes at me. Yeah. I I think the agreements with the mining pool partners are all a little bit different,
[00:55:45] Unknown:
in in those business details. But I think under the hood, it's actually not simple. It's actually very, very complicated because we have to we have to do things like make sure we don't take money from North Korea. We have to make sure we don't accelerate transactions for addresses on the OFAC sanctioned OFAC list. Right? Right. We have to make sure that your transaction is not some kind of, denial of service transaction or an attack transaction or some kind of shenanigans. Yeah. We're we're working huge transaction and then they re make a refund
[00:56:24] ODELL:
or something and they just But how do they get a refund on it? Well, some people
[00:56:29] Unknown:
flashback. Some people trust unconfirmed transactions, which they obviously shouldn't, but they do anyway. And so Oh, so you could be the replaced by fee. There's a lot of shenanigans you can do with an accelerator. Be like a fake replaced by fee that when you replace by fees, like, actually 1 sapper buy and then accelerate it through mempool. There's a lot of attacks you can do, and so we spend a lot of time mitigating these things. And we don't wanna break Bitcoin. Right? I mean, if you if you call up all the mining pools and you say, hey. Give me Root on your block template generator so I can accelerate. It's a huge trust, and we can't you know, we take that responsibility very seriously. We can't So what do you say to people?
[00:57:05] Unknown:
And then the pricing model is rather complex. Like Well, yeah. How does the pricing model work? If you're a very if you're a Plaab and you have a regular transaction Yeah. It's, it's rather cheap. But, as soon as you're gonna do some huge JPEG or something, you're gonna have to pay a third charge for that stuff. So Well, because this transaction is larger. Yeah. So so you pay, like, a shitcoin premium kind of thing. Shitcoin premium. The shitcoin premium. Now we only do valid Bitcoin transactions, but That's Yeah. So what do you I mean,
[00:57:39] ODELL:
we're all friends here. What do you what do you say to the people that that, this is an attack on Bitcoin?
[00:57:45] Unknown:
If you're not attacking Bitcoin, what are you even doing with your career in this industry?
[00:57:50] ODELL:
Well,
[00:57:50] Unknown:
I have a way of steel manning. I think Wiz has his his way of, That's the quote of the episode. And I have a way of applying to this question.
[00:57:59] ODELL:
But Okay. Yeah. Simon, what's your answer? So, like,
[00:58:06] Unknown:
so my answer is that this was already taking place, like, for several years before we launched Accelerator. But it was unknown because it was all happening behind closed doors, dark man pulls, and nobody even complained about it because they didn't even know about it. They had no idea So suddenly we launched this world's first accelerator that is fully transparent Right. And auditable. Right. And people start complaining like this is something new. It's not. We're actually making, some progress in in this market. But as like if you're a Bitcoin purist, you could say that this should not happen off chain. We should all use the Bitcoin protocol. Right. Everything should go through the usual mempool phone. But you can go tell that to the guy that has a stock transaction, like a lightning close for, like, 6 months and tell that guy, just use RBF. He's, like, trying to deposit in fucking Cash App. But that's, like, the first Right. That's, like, the first reply. Oh, just use RBF. Right? What is it while it doesn't support RBF? Then you're fucked. Right. And this Or what if he's receiving a transaction from There's so many there's so many He's just, like, accepting a a transaction from some There's so many case cases and and like it's a very common thing with the multisigs and time locks like the lighting closures that you can't use RBF or CPFB even if you want to. If there's no anchor output for the right and close.
So actually off band fee bump is the only solution in that case. And you guys made it super transparent. So we're actually solving a problem for people that have a problem.
[00:59:38] Unknown:
And, that's just Well, I I think a lot of core developers kind of take a little bit of personal offense that the fact that Mempool Accelerator can even exist. I get it. And It's like they're doing their job poorly. Right. And even And I need to exist. I don't see it that way at all because at the end of the day, a centralized company doing a centralized service is always gonna be more efficient than a decentralized peer to peer network trying to do it with, you know, no trusted party running it. And so we can always undercut, you know, just in our MySQL database, we can do accounting a lot more efficiently than on a blockchain. Right? And so I don't feel it's some flaw in Bitcoin that and that in, you know, an out of band fee market exists.
It's just the free market, and the free market is gonna do what the free market's gonna do. We're just trying to do our implementation in the most ethical way possible and the most transparent and open way way possible.
[01:00:40] ODELL:
Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, I don't think it's an attack on Bitcoin. I think it's important for us to accept that as a valid argument and to counter it and to have open discussion about it, because it could be. And I think I actually think by the way, to, Ivan's question, what plumber accepts Bitcoin? If you want your plumber to accept Bitcoin, offer him 20% more if you pay him Bitcoin. He will accept Bitcoin. Then pay him in one separate bite, and he will need to use the mempool accelerator in order to get his transaction confirmed. And and now we've hit the use case.
I think Wiz made a good point, to me, I think, privately, and I'll just share this publicly, and I don't think you won't mind me sharing it publicly. If not us, then who is the answer? And it's it's if if we don't make it a transparent auditable process, someone else will do it in a dark way, because the need exists. The need exists regardless. If you believe mempools will never clear again, if you believe that Bitcoin transaction volume increases, with adoption, and that Bitcoin block space is scarce,
[01:01:59] Unknown:
then people will come up with way worse methods of handling this use case. And I think I think you guys handle it in a very ethical and responsible way. Well, not only that, but all of the transaction accelerators that existed before Mempel accelerator were essentially created during the block space wars, and they were intentionally made as shitty as possible to serve as, like, propaganda for b cash. Right? They wanted to show how terrible Bitcoin is with its full mempool and full blocks, and it was all part of this propaganda. And after the block size wars, those transaction accelerators were still there with their terrible pricing models and opaque everything, and you and, it didn't make any sense. Terrible UI.
And they never improved them. But the mempool got full again. And that's the only thing that the Bitcoin community had for acceleration was these terrible accelerators. And so, yeah, we had to step in and raise the bar and say, this is how you would do it properly if you are a real Bitcoiner. Right? You would do it open source. You would do it transparent. You would let anybody audit what you're doing. You'd partner with all the best mining pools and make a, well, I call it like a marketplace. But, essentially, when someone accelerates a transaction on mempool space, we relay that request to all the mining pool partners, and whoever mines it gets the money.
And that way, we can accelerate with a much larger percentage of hash power than you would have from just accelerating on a single mining pool.
[01:03:41] ODELL:
And they and then the individual might like, every mining pool is not just one miner. The individual miners are able to actually see the block audits, see the transparency, and make sure that the mining pool operator is not just taking that big and not distributing it out to the rest of them. Right? Like, that's a key part.
[01:04:01] Unknown:
I mean, that's the decision of the pool operator to how to redistribute those. I mean, there's other, solo miners. Like, I think, Mara is just mining using their own hash power. Right? So they don't have to But I'm saying for the ones that aren't,
[01:04:15] ODELL:
like, that's one of the key aspects of the block audit. Right? Like, that's why you guys provide these.
[01:04:22] Unknown:
Yeah. I think it's gonna be interesting to see what each individual pool operator does in terms of redistributing these out of band fees to the individual minors. Some might just keep it. Some might pay it out as negative fees. Some might redo their FPPS calculations. Right. You know, it seems like a lot of them haven't even figured this out yet, and they're just kind of starting and and seeing how it goes. We're we're still very early with this accelerator. It's only been live for, what, a few weeks now in in the closed beta. Like, publicly, like, what, 3 days or something? Yeah. I mean, the conference is, like, 2 days ago. We turned on, Google Pay and Apple Pay, and now anyone Oh, wait. You can just pay with the Apple Pay now?
Yeah. I mean, if you have a a wallet with lightning in it, that's certainly the best. I mean, that's how I've done it. But, yeah, if you have Cash App Pay or Apple Pay or Google Pay
[01:05:19] ODELL:
Currently, most are paying with Apple Pay actually. And Really? It's really understandable
[01:05:23] Unknown:
that if you're a regular That's insane. And you have a stock transaction, you probably don't have a lightning
[01:05:29] ODELL:
wallet prepared. And they just pay with Apple Pay. I think one of the cool parts about it is, like, you can just, like if you're maybe a little bit drunk, you know, you're just feeling charitable, you can just, like, go you go mempool.space. You just accelerate some random transactions. Like, oh, nice. I got it confirmed. That that's actually pay with money.
[01:05:49] Unknown:
Do for testing the service is I go deep in the mempool and I find some pledged transactions has been stuck for months. Yeah. I'm gonna accelerate it. Use that for a test case Yeah. Instead of just making one wasting That's kinda awesome. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And you feel good about it?
[01:06:03] ODELL:
I mean, I'm just trying to fix my thing. I feel like that's, like, the charity of the future, like, mister beast of of, like, 20 you know mister beast? Of course. He just, like, builds wells for Africans and shit. Like, that's his identity. He would totally just go and accelerate, like, 1,000 people. Just random people. It's just like, I'm gonna pick you get a car. You get a car. But it's a 0 fee. Like, if you're accelerating a transaction, you're
[01:06:26] Unknown:
displacing another transaction from the next block. So It's actually kinda fucked up.
[01:06:32] ODELL:
Well, that's how scarce it works. Deep ethical question. I mean, some asshole's gonna write, like, a 1,000 page book on this, about the ethics of accelerating random person's transaction. I'm not gonna buy that. Me think about it that deeply. Okay. Sorry. Guys, do you think, so right now, there are 200,000 transactions waiting to be confirmed, and I lost my mouse. Where's my mouse? Right there. But, next block is, like, 4 sats per byte. For whatever reason, a shit ton of hash has joined the network probably because they listened, to former president Trump's speech, and they're like, I need Bitcoin in my strategic reserve, and they just all jumped on. So the next difficulty adjustment's gonna be, 11% jump.
And mempool right now is actually predicting that for 31 hour in 31 hours, so it's about to happen. And usually in these periods, mempools decrease, in amount of transactions. I think it's been over a year now that mempools have not cleared. I have famously It's not gonna clear again. I've I was I was asking that was my question.
[01:07:53] Unknown:
Did you agree with me that mempools will never clear again? Yeah. No. It won't clear. I mean, we are if if it was like normal like a few few years ago, like, no no weird stuff in the mempool. The mempool will totally be clear now. But now we have these ruins and stuff and there are people mining tokens by just spamming transactions. So the whole mempool like 200,000 you don't have 200,000 people out there sitting and waiting for a transaction Yeah. Transaction. It's like 1 guy, 10 guy making tens of thousands of those transaction each as, like, a RUNE token mint thing. So you agree with me, but I think that's it's like they are like the buyer of block space.
Like, the last resort buyer of block space is are these Rune Miners Minters. So as soon as the fees start to go down again, they start they will ramp up their minting so they it will never clear. Yeah. I remember people would laugh at Odell on Twitter for saying that mempools would never clear again. This was before I deleted it. Remember Yeah. No. Remember, like,
[01:08:52] Unknown:
Capsule Dell was tweeting out things like the mempool fees are designed to pump forever. And, obviously, we're working on the mempool open source project. We understand that, you know, arguably, better than anyone. But, like, people were really laughing at Odell. They're like, this is crazy. People are betting against you. I mean, how many sats did Marty have to pay you?
[01:09:13] ODELL:
We have we actually have a current bet out. Like, he's gonna owe me a 1,000,000 sats next
[01:09:18] Unknown:
next having. I thought it was the end of last year or something.
[01:09:22] ODELL:
I actually briefly lost that bet, and then I doubled down. But we have a million sats outstanding right now. About man pool never clearing? Yeah. Yeah. I think you're gonna win it. I I made back my money on the rebets, but I actually I never got any money from, so Trinity actually owes me a round of golf. Wow. So I got that going for me. I think I made maybe 200,000 sats altogether, But I have a 1,000,000 sats outstanding with Marty, for next leap year, which is always during havings. I think it was kinda beautiful that Satoshi made leap years, Like, leap years are always having years. I suppose if you
[01:10:04] Unknown:
are running an accelerator, you're inherently betting that the mempool will never clear again.
[01:10:10] Unknown:
So I'm obviously I think we seriously has to consider if we just gonna just purge all the one sats or vBuy transactions from the from our mempools because they're just hanging there and they're never gonna confirm. No. But we can accelerate those now.
[01:10:23] Unknown:
That's No. People accelerate 1 sat per v bytes all the time.
[01:10:26] ODELL:
Yeah. But I'm So why are we gonna purge them? Yeah. Why would you purge them for 6 months, and they're never gonna confirm again. So But now the accelerator exists, they can lose That's the floor. True. Why don't you just delete the whole mempool then? Yeah. Why once why not do zaprify? Yeah. Well, why would you make So it seems like a slippery slope.
[01:10:44] Unknown:
Re enable our time out because I think there's a default time out thing in the in in It was, like, 2 weeks? 2 weeks, and we we removed our time out completely. That's why we have transactions that have been stuck for over
[01:10:55] Unknown:
6, 8 months. The reason we disabled the time out is because we were planning to launch an acceleration service that would be able to accelerate these stuck transactions. And so if you expired them from our mempool, they would Well, then I can recreate
[01:11:08] ODELL:
a new one with a higher fee. That's another option. I mean, I think the cool part is I think the cool part is, with your accelerator is that it's it's legit. It's like almost it's like a perfectly free market. Like, you can you can just pay exactly what is needed to get into the next block if you need to get in the next block. Yep. And the market basically dictates that price. And and a person shouldn't dictate the price. Because if a person can dictate it, then we'll just have we'll have corruption. We'll have greed. Like, the whole system breaks breaks down to a degree, and you guys have added a compelling option to that aspect.
[01:11:51] Unknown:
It was always kind of there. It's just that no one built the tools to really add an arbitrary fee bump on any transaction that simply and easily and taking various payment methods and just putting all the pieces together. Like, it was always possible. Right? Yeah. By the way, Freaks.
[01:12:14] ODELL:
The purge. I didn't I didn't stop, broad this is the first dispatch that's not broadcasted to Twitter ever, and it's not for ideological reasons. I actually left the civil dispatch account up just for broadcast. It it's because I was right. And, to broadcast to Twitter, it requires KYC now. And I would have to get a blue check to broadcast to Twitter, and that's why it's just YouTube and Nostra now. So feel free to just if you're still on Twitter, like, send out a tweet real quick. Just say, Odell was right, period. And then send send tweet. Send the tweet.
Then Just sit there for a second Just like think about your life choices Just like think just like just sit there for a little bit like think And then and then delete your Twitter and then go noster only. I think that's the way you should handle that. Can Bitcoin survive without a working coin joint implementation? Yeah. What's your answer to that? By the way, are we answering questions that are only a 1000 sat saps, or are we are we gonna should we Are we raising the phone? Bump it? I feel like if you want your answer question if you want your question answered, it should be at least 2,000 sats. But we'll answer this one because we just increased the floor.
What do you what do you what do you what is your answer to this question?
[01:13:43] Unknown:
I don't even know what coin joining is.
[01:13:46] ODELL:
We have we have a working coin join implementation right now, and it's join market. And, the easiest way to use join market is is I mean, you have to self host it by design, but the easiest way to use it is is using star 9. I I think the easiest way to run a mempool self hosted is is also probably star 9.
[01:14:09] Unknown:
One click installation.
[01:14:10] ODELL:
Yeah. And you don't have to buy their hardware, pay them any money. You can just I have one right here. The you see this desktop? Like, it's just I didn't pay star 9 shit. I'm just running start OS on that. It's complete overkill. The fans are actually worrying right now. Can you hear the fans? Oh, yeah. We can hear it. So actually They can hear the fans. Wiz is offended that he can hear the fans. This is perfectly soundproof. It's just we're in this, like, super nice recording studio, and we got this, like, power PC over. That's my note, running running join market transactions.
[01:14:43] Unknown:
No. So speaking of start 9, we're about to ship mempool 3 point o, which will be everything you see on mempool space more or less. But with, you know, running on your own node, of course, for Umbrel and Start 9 and all the self hosted platforms out there. And it will, if you enable the feature, integrate with Benpool Accelerator. So everything you're browsing on your own local Bitcoin node will stay the same as always, but you'll have that accelerate button there where you'll be able to get a QR code and zap some lightning stats directly from your own node to accelerate transactions directly from your own node. That's awesome.
Yeah. Couple more day. I think we're just waiting for some translators to, finish some string translation. So maybe in the next day or so, we can bump that up. That's cool. So if you're a translator for the mempool open source project, everyone is waiting for you.
[01:15:42] ODELL:
Oh, like, Brian figured out Brian, we I don't I don't know how to attach a zap to the question in amethyst. Does all caps make you happier? Bitcoin Bennett, you didn't pay anything. I can't answer the question. Yeah. Of course, all caps makes you happier. I'll answer it. I mean, it's important to speak clearly. I can't I mean, I'm amazed that I'm amazed that you can get into the next block of 4 sapro fight. Odell, have you been spamming the chain to win the bet? Asks Ivan. No. I don't have to. I don't have to. Then why why is it I don't think people realize, like, I send more Bitcoin transactions than you. Like, I it's better for me. And, like, it I would make way more money if I can just if I if I could just pay one sapper bite and it just gets confirmed.
Like, Mempools not clearing is a it's almost like I'm I'm doing the 1st fee market insurance scheme. Like, I'm trying to get insurance on all of the Bitcoin transactions I'm gonna have to make in my lifetime by making this bet. And Marty is not liquid enough to make a large enough bet with me that will pay for all of my future transaction fee burden. So I'm I'm actually still short mempools never clearing again. I would like that. We have to correct you on your terminology. It's not a transaction fee market. It's a block space market and a mempool space. Yeah. Blah blah blah. That's what Merck says. I mean, a block space block space is finite. Right? And and the amount of users of Bitcoin is effectively infinite if everyone has children and they have children.
[01:17:31] Unknown:
We stack for our children and our children will stack for their children.
[01:17:35] ODELL:
I love that. I I think that who who said that? Matodell. All caps. CapsoDell. Yeah. We stack for our children, and they will stack for their children.
[01:17:46] Unknown:
You're one
[01:17:48] ODELL:
of those high IQ people Trump mentioned is if you are one of those No. I'm the I'm the left I'm the left curve. I'm on the left curve. It's I think it's, like, very basic logic. What do you think about MC's question? Rider died 3 sufficient fee. With
[01:18:05] Unknown:
2,100,000 status asking why are so many wizards in Bitcoin? There's only 1 I didn't see any wizards. There's only 1 wiz in Bitcoin.
[01:18:13] ODELL:
There's only one Wiz? What what is your opinion on the, Israeli tech company named Wiz that was purchased by Google recently. I cannot comment on pending litigation. Break huge breaking.
[01:18:33] Unknown:
Any other questions?
[01:18:34] ODELL:
Yeah. Guys, feel free to hit us with questions. I'm gonna hit them with questions if you don't hit us with questions. Hit it. So did you guys see Michael Sailor's 21 year prediction for Bitcoin? No.
[01:18:52] Unknown:
Right. Was it, like, $45,000,000
[01:18:55] ODELL:
I think it's 20 years or something. I think, his bear case was $3,000,000.
[01:19:02] Unknown:
I mean, by that point, you know, a beer is gonna cost a $100 or something. Right? Like His,
[01:19:10] ODELL:
his his major case was, was he is he just he's a sailor? Sailor. Let's see. Okay. Here it is. I got it. I got it. I got it. 2045. Right? 21 years from now. Bear case, $3,000,000 for Bitcoin. Base case, $13,000,000 per Bitcoin. Bull case, $49,000,000 per Bitcoin. How do you guys feel about this? Why is he so bearish?
[01:19:42] Unknown:
Yeah. That's an There's an infinite number of money in the What is who are we talking about price?
[01:19:47] Unknown:
People care about price?
[01:19:48] ODELL:
Wait. You don't care about price? I think price is the most important metric. Okay. I'm in it for the tech, and I measure it by price. Oh, okay. Is that a ridiculous concept?
[01:19:59] Unknown:
Wait. Can I have another beer? Yeah. I have another beer.
[01:20:03] ODELL:
2045, $49,000,000 for Bitcoin. Have another beer. Yeah. How much is a loaf of bread in Sailor's Future? A 1,000 sats. Yeah. A $100. Right. That's the correct answer. Whatever. The same number even less sats than it costs now. Right? Yeah. It's, like, 45 sats for a loaf of bread. Sailor will never be the 1st trillionaire because Satoshi will be the 1st trillionaire.
[01:20:26] Unknown:
I I isn't, like, Satoshi already the richest person in the world?
[01:20:30] ODELL:
Probably. Do you think he walks among us? Do you think he was at the conference? Do you think he was on live no. He definitely wasn't on the live desk. Do you think he was watching the live desk? Do you think if he was at the conference, do you think he was in the main stage, or do you think he was in the expo hall watching the live desk? Do you think he's in a live chat? Probably not because we've only we've only been zapped, like, 40,000 stats. He's on the sofa. Do you think he's on the couch? It's literally just MZ. No. I think, I've been zapped 45 stats. Definitely not Satoshi.
[01:21:09] Unknown:
Satoshi would have zapped more. What do you think would happen to Fiat in the short term if RFK won and actually started stacking towards 4,000,000 Bitcoin? I mean, that's ridiculous.
[01:21:21] ODELL:
First of all, RFK will never win. 2nd of all, that's ridiculous.
[01:21:25] Unknown:
Well, the price would go up. So that that's a simple answer. I think
[01:21:30] ODELL:
I zap shaming. Yeah. I am zap shaming you. I love you freaks. You're all right or dies. I got to shake many of your hands this week. Wasn't there, so no. But we also have no ads. So a man's gotta eat, and I'm trying to stack my strategic Bitcoin reserve for my family. By the way, I love that we're all calling it strategic Bitcoin reserve from now. It's not Bitcoin treasury. Stockpile. It's not like your savings. It's just like my whole life is just accumulating my big strategic Bitcoin reserve. It's a strong meme. It's a good I really like that Senator Lummus called it the Louisiana Purchase. I mean, her state, Wyoming, is in the land of they paid, like, $10,000,000 for, like, half of America.
It is it feels similar. It feels similar.
[01:22:18] Unknown:
So, yeah, 4,000,000 Bitcoin. I mean, 1,000,000 Bitcoin. I've the market has barely moved on to 1,000,000 Bitcoin bill. Like, a bill that says, like, straight up, we are gonna accumulate 1,000,000 Bitcoin. Yeah. The Merck's not moving. The mempool is completely dead. It's like the whole world is sleeping on Bitcoin. Like Yeah. What's going on? This work is global. Anyone in the world can just get a wallet to make a transaction, and yet I don't know what's what people are doing. They're just
[01:22:43] ODELL:
they just don't care about their kids. Oh, I've been exactly over 45¢. We're early. That's that's what it is. Are we we're still early.
[01:22:52] Unknown:
People are not using Bitcoin
[01:22:54] Unknown:
yet. It feels like every time we come on Matt's show, it's like we're saying the same thing. So the fees will pump forever. We are so early. We stack for our children. What happens if the state does x? Right? Like true. And it's it's kind of interesting to think back what we said a year ago or 2 years ago or 3 years ago. Yeah. I mean, I remember the first, Citadel dispatch we went on. Must have been 3, 4 years ago, like episode 4 or something like that. And we were, it was just me and Simon talking about the Memplo open source project. And now we're still talking about the Memple open source project.
[01:23:37] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:23:39] ODELL:
The fees are still low. And the fees are 4 sats per Vivo. I would say the single biggest thing RFK said was not the 4,000,000 Bitcoin. It was the cap gains treatment, which Yeah. I think he legal tender. Right? He might have pushed the Overton window on that one because I did not even think you know? Or, like, just say Rod is in charge of Illuminati here at the park. He is not. Yeah. He's head he's the head he, like, he he deals Oh, with with the local politicians and stuff. I didn't know that was something I could ask for. Like, I didn't think we could remove Cap gains treatment.
Wow. We got a I think everyone Look, ride or die freak. MZ gave 21,000
[01:24:27] Unknown:
sets. 21,000 sets? Here, have a beer.
[01:24:30] ODELL:
Yeah.
[01:24:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. You I'll deliver it to you for 21,000.
[01:24:34] ODELL:
Free beer free beer for m z. And Josh zapped 10000 sets. Cap gains tax. I mean, that is a big limiter for people. Japan, they have unrealized
[01:24:49] Unknown:
cap gains tax. I mean, Bitcoin's perfect for unrealized cap gains. So it's like they print more money. That. The unrealized cap gains are in the fiat denominated
[01:24:59] ODELL:
Right. Currency. So, like, they print more money, and they're like, Your Bitcoin went up in our fiat. Yeah. So you have to unrealized again, so you have to pay it. You're like, what? And the beauty of Bitcoin for them is that it's completely liquid, so you can pay it. Like, if if they do unrealized cap gains for, like, real estate, like, what are you gonna do? Like, sell your house to pay it? Like, that's insane. Like, it's not like what are you gonna sell your Apple stock to pay it? Thank god we don't know any of this coin now. Yeah. And those are in the country with capital gain stocks. Good thing I don't have a strategic Bitcoin reserve.
[01:25:30] Unknown:
But you could, like, set up a family office in El Salvador or somewhere. They have capcans. Right? No. Not on Bitcoin.
[01:25:40] ODELL:
Do they? Not? In El Salvador? No. Bitcoin is the legal center. That's why they can't have cap gains on it. Yeah. But the difference is, like, if you're in El Salvador and you say something bad about, you just die in jail. But, like, at least you're not cap gained. Is that how it works? Is that how it works? I don't I don't know. I haven't been to I don't know. I I don't mean to, like, forbid you guys from going to El Salvador. I'm not gonna be too I went there. It was quite nice. The beaches are nice. The people are good. No. I think There's a little bit of concern.
Yeah. Move to Puerto Rico for no cap gains. Yeah. If you're American, you can move to Puerto Rico. And for 10 years, you pay no cap no federal cap gains tax. There's a long list of countries that have no cap gains like a Bitcoin. Yeah. But Puerto Rico is like a special beast because in the US, if you move to, like, Portugal, for instance Yep. You still have to pay US cap gains tax, but if you move to Puerto Rico, you don't. Okay. For America. But the locals still have to pay it. So the local like, it's like a weird dichotomy kind of fucked up thing that goes on over there.
And there's, like, a very much a class system that has developed as but, like, the here's the key. Right? Like, you move to Puerto Rico, you don't pay cap gains tax. And the way you repent is you just walk up to local Puerto Ricans, and you say, do you have a transaction stuck in the mempool? And then you just pay their acceleration fee. And that way You don't have to pay give back. Yes. Yeah. You give back you give back to local Puerto Ricans. That's true. Okay. So Josh is asking he Josh actually gave 10,000 sats. So he has he has banked 5 questions. How it works? Yeah. If yeah. 2,000 sats per question. He he banked he banked 5 questions. Oh. It means MC's got, like, Yeah. MZ, by the way. MZ, you have 10 questions if you if you have questions for us, but you have to put in the chat. But can you outbid it? I thought you outbid each other. So, like, you put 20 k SATS on a question that'll bump out a guy. No. No. We're not bump this the mempool the mempool of, of civil dispatch is not full.
Hopefully, one day, it will never clear again, but we're not there yet. Simon ever retire? No. No. No. No. No. No. We have to answer Josh's question first. So Josh is asking, what's your guys' GOATS and other stuff? Do you know the the origin story of GOATS and other stuff? No. So you know what Nasser stands for. Right? Yeah. Notes and other stuff. Right? So do you remember Balaji's prediction of
[01:28:08] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:28:09] ODELL:
$1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days? Yes. So me and Marty were talking about a rabbit hole recap. Right? And Marty was like I was, like, making fun of Balaji. I was like, this is ridiculous. You know? It it was kinda redeeming for me. Right? Because a lot of people gave me shit for 200 k by conference day, and I'll never make another price prediction again. And, honestly, we would have gotten it if it wasn't for SBF and his meddling kids, but that's besides the point. Like, I'm not gonna blame other people for it. Sure. Marty was like, but what if Belagi's right? What if we get what if we get 1,000,000 Bitcoin $1,000,000 per Bitcoin in 90 days? And my immediate reaction was, like, rabbit hole recaps over.
I'm just gonna do goats and other stuff. Oh. I'm just gonna get I'm gonna get, like, a 1000 acres. I'm gonna get goats, cows So you'd be in the farmer. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna I'm gonna enjoy fucking life. Okay. If we got like, a $1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days, like, the whole world is, like, changed. You know? Like, that we're in a whole new paradigm, and, like, I don't wanna be a public bitcoin about it. So, like, what is your goats and other stuff like after Bitcoin? Like or, like, let's say we hit
[01:29:20] Unknown:
a Dell price predictions for Gong. No. Running the mempool is such a honor and serious responsibility, and it's like we don't do it for the money. We do it because we love to work to contribute to So if we hit a $1,000,000 Bitcoin in 90 days,
[01:29:38] ODELL:
you're just gonna continue running mempool accelerator.
[01:29:42] Unknown:
I mean I basically I basically already retired, so I should start working on the Bitcoin stuff. And I started working on Bitcoin stuff, which means I built MapRed. So you're already doing the GOATS and other stuff? Yeah. Exactly. This is the This is the GOATs and other stuff. Exactly. We're all we're working on Bitcoin every day. Okay. Respect. Josh, you have 4 more questions.
[01:30:01] ODELL:
Well, wiz okay. So you just answered the same wiz. You answered Cypher Havlam's question as well.
[01:30:09] Unknown:
Where is Mononaut?
[01:30:11] ODELL:
Asks Robin. Nim's cap Nimcapa's question was, wait. You guys have bitcoins. Who said that? Nimcap asked if you guys There's some troll. Don't ignore. No. No. No. No. He paid 2,000 sats. Do you guys have Bitcoins? I mean We have boating accidents quite frequently. Wait. So so, actually, I have a better question for you. Is the plural of Bitcoin Bitcoins? Or is it like, do you have 10 Bitcoins or 10 Bitcoin? I mean, not you. I don't have any Bitcoin. Okay. So if you see a transact, wait. So what does mempool do? Like One coin, 2 coins. If you go to mempool.space and the transaction, is it 10 Bitcoin or 10 Bitcoins?
[01:30:53] Unknown:
We displayed in Sats or BTC.
[01:30:56] ODELL:
Yeah. So BTC. Is it BTCs?
[01:30:58] Unknown:
No.
[01:31:00] ODELL:
Just like it's not US Okay. So I'm right. Okay. So it should just be Bitcoin. Okay. We got that. Okay. We got Rob Ham underpaying saying you guys need me to run more beers. Also, where is Mononaut? Yeah. Mononaut is, a good idea. To run more beers. Yeah. I can do more beers, Rob? That would be great. Where's Mononot?
[01:31:19] Unknown:
Mononot is chained to a desk in our office. We don't let him out. Also, he cares about his OPSEC a lot.
[01:31:26] Unknown:
He he would need, like, voice scrambler, the the one We can do that.
[01:31:30] Unknown:
That'd be cool. Yeah. We should do that.
[01:31:33] ODELL:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mempool is just like, Mempool can sponsor voice scramblers for We should have, like, the whole team on. We should get, like, Copa and Mononox. Did you did you hear the guy on the sofa over there. Did you hear the voltage one? It was, like, 13 people. What? 13 people on this batch? Yeah. It was No way. I think it's the most people on any podcast that's ever existed. It was it was the best podcast.
[01:31:59] Unknown:
Alright. Let's, There's been no better podcast. So let's do the next one. Next year, whenever we do it, we'll get the whole Mempool team out. And we'll get voice scramblers.
[01:32:08] ODELL:
I like voice scramblers. Okay. What about the great gazoo? Thank you for helping me understand this technology, and there's no question. I appreciate that. Right? There's no question there. But he paid us sufficient, so we should call answer? We should answer. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for your support.
[01:32:27] Unknown:
Thank you. Thank you for using the Manpower Space website. No. We didn't get the money. He, Matt got the money. So we have I mean, I think you for supporting Citadel dispatch.
[01:32:36] ODELL:
I mean, it's it's big. I think that's, like, kinda supports you guys. Okay. Right? You you appreciate it. You're great because you're all good boys. There we go. Awesome. Josh, by the way, you have 4 more questions. I think MZ has 10 questions remaining. MZ, you got any questions for us? I only have answers. Yeah. MZ says he only has answers. Hey. Is there anybody listening who uses testnet 4? If so, comment on the chat. Can we accelerate testnet 4 on mempool.space?
[01:33:04] Unknown:
Well, the mempool is empty.
[01:33:06] ODELL:
But, yeah, we should we should make that just for the laws. Right? Yeah. I mean, I wanna spend on Apple Pay to accelerate my test net transaction.
[01:33:16] Unknown:
You could pay with testnet for Bitcoin.
[01:33:19] ODELL:
Testnet 4 sats to accelerate on testnet. Yeah. Or testnet 1, 2, 3, or
[01:33:24] Unknown:
Testnet 1, 2, 3.
[01:33:26] ODELL:
It's kinda questionable. I kinda it's a slippery slope. I you guys don't really you guys have no questions, really? I got the Well, it's because you didn't tweet it out, so they're all on Twitter. Well, did you tweet it out? I did tweet it out. Okay. So what happened? You have a gold check. I'm not Can we talk about the Twitter Noster thing? Okay. Because I feel like you you look down on me for it. What? Why do you think Because you're, like, you're a Twitter maxi. I hardly use Twitter. I mean, you're you're like, literally, like, how many how much social media do you have? What other social media did you on LinkedIn? Did you did you link what is it called a LinkedIn post? Did you LinkedIn post this this episode?
[01:34:05] Unknown:
Why why why you gotta be like that? Why you like it? Why you gotta be like I don't have LinkedIn. I retweeted this episode on my nostril.
[01:34:12] ODELL:
We know you're not on Twitter, Matt, so I tweeted But what what other social medias are you on? Are you on TikTok?
[01:34:20] Unknown:
Not that young. I'm, like, older. I'm not the TikTok channel. Did you send it to your WhatsApp group chats? I don't have a WhatsApp.
[01:34:29] ODELL:
What other are you not no other social media besides Twitter? I'm a Prime I mean, I'm Nostar. Nostar? Yeah. Did we get you prameled on it /wiz? Yes. Primal.net/wiz?
[01:34:40] Unknown:
Milian is amazing, and he did that without Isn't he great? Yes.
[01:34:44] ODELL:
So primal.net/wiz. You can follow Wiz over there. I'm also primal.net/odell. Do we have Of course you are. And also this is this show is primal.net/cidadel.
[01:34:58] Unknown:
And guess what happens if you go to primal.net/mempool?
[01:35:01] ODELL:
Yeah. What what happens if you go there? Well, you get to the mempool. Oh, wow. The Wiz profile is great. You look great. What? You look really good on that. What do you mean? It's just my I think you look great. Oh, man. I trolled Will so hard on this.
[01:35:20] Unknown:
What? He tweeted out the video. Oh, primal.net/manpool.
[01:35:24] ODELL:
That looks good. By the way, I'm in all caps. If you do all caps, it still works. Yacht rock season. Yeah. It is rock yacht rock season.
[01:35:33] Unknown:
Testnet for accelerator will require a testnet for lightning network. So it's a full test net for a circular economy. Okay. That makes sense. I mean,
[01:35:43] ODELL:
Rob Rob is one of our best resources here at Bitcoin Park. He's a local master, and now he moved his whole family here. Oh, Rob Rob and I cofounded testnet 4 along with Fabian. Yes. I go it's a product of the Illuminati. I only use MAME. It was a,
[01:36:00] Unknown:
we had a closed door meeting. We made a backroom deal. We
[01:36:05] ODELL:
we sacrificed the goat and other stuff. So why can't we accelerate transactions via Nostra yet?
[01:36:13] Unknown:
Because nobody's ever requested such a Well, Ivan just requested it.
[01:36:19] ODELL:
That's why I asked the question. Oh, so, like, if you
[01:36:24] Unknown:
if you just, like, post a TX ID on Noster with a zap along with it, that should just fee bump it. We should just be able to zap the money. Mempool with the TXID and zapsat. That should just fee bump. Social acceleration.
[01:36:38] ODELL:
Or, like, what if I what if I How big of a mark? What if I do, like, a nostril, and I'm like, please, sir please, sir, me, familia, and then I put the t x I t, and then someone else zaps it. Zap it. Yeah. That makes sense. So it's like social Social acceleration. You like that. Right? Yeah. I see Greg would use that. I heard a comedian got jumped after our our I didn't know about that. That sucks. I liked him. He was good. Did you did you guys go to the live rabbit hole recap? Yes. We were both there.
[01:37:10] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. I heard about that, actually. Yeah. Did you actually hear about that?
[01:37:13] ODELL:
Yeah. I just got something stolen. Yeah. That's fucked up. I mean, you talked a big game. You said he was always carrying this. Like, fat was in his folds.
[01:37:23] Unknown:
He talked a lot of shit. Yeah.
[01:37:26] ODELL:
Damn. Well, RHR was we had a I didn't hear about that. We had a we had a sold out show of 600 people. We had David Lucas there. He was roasting us from kill Tony. He's a little bit brutal, but he's a good dude. He meant well. I he told me he was gonna sell all the shit coins for Bitcoin, but maybe not if the Bitcoin had jumped him. That's fucked up.
[01:37:53] Unknown:
So was it really the last RHR ever? No. Of course not.
[01:37:57] ODELL:
That was just a running joke. Oh, because, what Bitcoin did had a last episode, so you had to have the same one? No. It's because Thomas from Pub Key said that we weren't selling enough tickets, and we were at, like, half we were half sold, like, 4 weeks ago. And on RHR, I was just like, oh, it's gonna be I just started doing Trumpism, so I was like, this would be the best RHR ever? I was like, it's the last RHR ever, and then we just kept running with it. But, like, we had clues there that it was obviously not gonna be the last rabbit hole recap. I mean, the the most recent rabbit hole recap, we literally said that the winner of the hot dog eating contest would be on the next rabbit hole recap. Like, that's impossible if it's the last one ever. Like, they use don't just verify. Like, there's clues there. And, also, it's a $50 ticket, so I don't feel like I scammed anybody. And it was a great show. I thought it was a a lot of fun. $50?
Yeah. We had a mariachi band.
[01:38:48] Unknown:
It was a great show, and I tried to get some friends on it. The tickets were sold out. So Yeah. Good show. Sold out sold out sold that crowd.
[01:38:55] ODELL:
MZ, RHR rug pull. No. It wasn't a rug pull. You have 9 questions left. He didn't get jumped, but I thought you were going to get him jumped for his. No. No. The it was all loved there. It was we we invited him down. Like, we brought him down. It was a whole thing. We're happy to have him. I thought he was going to roast you guys and not us, but I'm a team player. The only thing that pissed me off when he said I looked like I was from Connecticut or Rhode Island, And as a New Yorker, that's, like, probably the most offensive thing you could say to somebody. So I told him to fuck off. Like, that is, I think, a completely reasonable response.
So, He said Marty looked like an AI generated real estate agent. He surprisingly owned Bitcoin. I assumed he didn't own Bitcoin, so I like that. Oh, yeah. This is a good question. So MZ has 8 questions left now. What is the official way to display the mempool and blocks on mempool that space? Mempool right or left side? I mean, the official way is obvious. Yeah. The default. Mempool's on the left side. Right?
[01:40:08] Unknown:
It's a user preference. Yeah. There is no right or wrong answer. It is for each user to decide on their own. I like it on the left side
[01:40:18] ODELL:
because we read left to right.
[01:40:22] Unknown:
Exactly. That's the reason why it's weird. People disagree, and that's why it's a preference. I mean, Gigi was,
[01:40:28] ODELL:
Yeah. Their argument is that time flows the other way. Yeah. How do I flip it? I press this button. Yeah. Nope. That didn't work. Did that work? I think there you have 2 arrows now to choose from. One's that flip it the other way. What does the top one do? That's right. Feed I know. What is it what is it doing? Fights. Oh, I see what it's doing. Oh, it's just changing it. Okay. Yeah. So that is the next question. Like It looks way I don't like the other way. Size of the blocks or the feeds of the blocks? It's a big controversy. It's not a big controversy. I created Is it a It created the Is it an internal controversy? Literally the only first one in the box. It's for all these years, all always show the
[01:41:08] Unknown:
size of the blocks, like, 1 megabyte, 2 megabytes. And then everyone decided if we should just switch it to default showing the fees, and I didn't agree.
[01:41:18] Unknown:
It's called dying on the hillside. You didn't agree? I still don't agree.
[01:41:23] ODELL:
Wait. So it shows the fees by default, and you wanna show the the size of the Yeah. Because that's how it always be. Like, just check the mempool model. No. No. But one one day, it's just gonna be all pretty much all the same size, and then the fees is all that matters. Is this the argument? Are you guys
[01:41:41] Unknown:
I'm so glad you brought this up, Simon, so that we could have this discussion on air.
[01:41:47] ODELL:
Look. As one of as one of the the the the large I think we're the largest investor in Menphoo. Like, you should come to me with these internal debates, and I'm happy to wait for them privately.
[01:41:58] Unknown:
Hear me out. Let's say you're a regular average Bitcoin user. You just care about your transaction. You go to mempool space. You wanna learn about the Bitcoin blockchain, how it works, and you see some random numbers that representing the fees. Who cares? They don't know I care. That's what they care about. It looks technical. It looks weird. But if you see, this is a block. It's 1 megabyte. It's 2 megabytes. That is very intuitive to explain that this is a block, 2 megabytes big, and this is how it's always been. This is like No. I disagree. You're wrong about this.
[01:42:27] ODELL:
Okay. Well Humbly. Humbly. Humbly. I respect your opinion. I understand what you're saying. It's kinda cool to understand how big the black but they're all gonna be the same size at some point. You realize that. Right? They're not. Like, right now, it's interesting. Same.
[01:42:45] Unknown:
They're gonna all be full. Remember Yeah. They're all full right now already, but and they're, like, between 1 and 2 megabytes. Remember when we had in very early days, the mempool was always,
[01:42:57] Unknown:
empty, basically. And we had the mempool graph, that rainbow graph Yep. Was upside down and you had the dotted line. No. That was confusing. Right. Right. And once the mempool became full all the time, that was became completely useless because
[01:43:13] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:43:14] Unknown:
The mempool's full all the time. So why would you wanna see that dotted line? It's the same on the we had it on the dashboard. Right? And it was just showing this huge rainbow. And then, yes, even later after that, when it was the correct orientation for a full Menpool environment, it was so full that it was just this rainbow, and it's kind of useless. So then we replaced it with the Menpool goggles, which is much more I love the men pull goggles. Yeah. That was, Mononaut's, beautiful visualization and, the ability to highlight or Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Certain types of transactions.
[01:43:47] Unknown:
That's great.
[01:43:48] Unknown:
But yeah. I mean, over time, the mempool changes, and that's why we switched it from bytes to Sats.
[01:43:54] ODELL:
I think Josh has banked a couple questions. What do you guys think of Federman? Does is he asking about Fedimint specifically or e cash in general? I mean, he literally said, what do you all think of Fedimint? Yeah. I mean, you can answer both questions. I'm curious.
[01:44:15] Unknown:
I guess it's a good idea.
[01:44:20] ODELL:
You don't sound very optimistic on it. It's an optional way of, like, scaling Bitcoin or something. But I mean, it's not scaling Bitcoin. It's making custodians better. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's making Like our ETF scaling Bitcoin? I think I think Cali does a good job with this. He's he never says it's scaling bit. It's not scaling. Mhmm. Yeah. But it's just It's improving custodians.
[01:44:42] Unknown:
But it is scaling though. If you if a whole village just uses sentiments within themselves, they are actually not making What if a whole if a whole village uses Ibit, like BlackRock ETF, is that scaling? Yeah. It is. Why not? I mean, this goes back to, like, the whole liquid federation debate. You know, liquids,
[01:44:59] Unknown:
you peg in, and then you get this IOU token. And it's custodial to the federation and you have this 11 of 15 multisig or whatever it is. And you're trusting the federation not to rug you. You're trusting the Fedimint not to rug you.
[01:45:19] Unknown:
And actually, Liquid is fully auditable, but correct me if I'm wrong with the eCaching. Yeah. I actually spoke to Eric, and he actually gave me some more confidence that you can actually audit the Fannie Mae. Is that? You can just call an API and it shows you the whole log of all the transactions. But how do you know that's legit? You can't. And that's why they're building, like, a system, like, every 6 months or so, all the e cash gets burned and recreated. That means if you have some dark fake,
[01:45:48] Unknown:
create other thing there, those will expire. So it's like a 6 months audit thing and you can see the log. I mean, I think the real audit is, like, you we should just run the banks all the time. You know, I you know what's really ironic? Let's just run them. You know what's really ironic to me is, like, we supported liquid since the early days when the mempool was empty, and nobody cared about liquid. And that was fine. Shit. But now, like, e cash and Fedimint, which you can't even fully audit like you can with liquid. Yeah. But e cash has better
[01:46:17] ODELL:
properties.
[01:46:18] Unknown:
No. But, like, if your concern is the
[01:46:21] Unknown:
rug ability alright. MZ has some stronger With the rug I mean, MZ already posed the question, like, are you a Bitcoiner if you use a Fedimin? The problem is also that He's got 8 questions. So they are not protected from regulatory capture, and that's the probably the biggest issue. Like, the Fedimins are gonna require KYC in the long term. No. No. But, I mean, there will be many of them, and you can just swap between them really easily. So you mean that you're gonna run and try to hide from the government or running a
[01:46:46] ODELL:
maybe we won't have to. Like, I mean, maybe Trump likes the pediments. They're the best. We want all the pediments in the United States. It's possible, but
[01:46:56] Unknown:
then all custodians are gonna be KYC free, is that what you're saying?
[01:47:00] ODELL:
Kraken, Coinbase. Yeah. I mean, maybe. No. I mean, no. I'm not saying that. Well, what's the threat model here? Is it the I just RFK said that we're not gonna have cap gains tax. So, like, maybe, like, yeah, maybe Bank Secrecy Act is, like, Bitcoin 2025. Like Okay. But Well, it's just just just just gonna be at the stage, like, we're getting rid of the Bank Secrecy Act to send my question. Was, what do you think of Fedimint? And then my response will be, well, what's the threat model? Is it the
[01:47:27] Unknown:
self custody or, you know, custodial nature where you can get rugged, or is it the privacy nature? And so if you're making this huge trade off of, you know, trusting a third party to custody your funds so you can have some privacy, that's your decision.
[01:47:45] ODELL:
But there's probably better ways to achieve that. No. No. I I agree with Ivan actually that Trump likes KYC, and we can dream. And I agree with Bill Monroe that says we don't want the CCP running all the Fediments. Also, it doesn't really matter if the CCP runs the Fediments, because the beauty is the custodian can't see the transactions. I would say the real question is if we're pragmatic, people are using custodial solutions regardless. So if they're using Wallet as Satoshi, I would rather Wallet as which, by the way, doesn't require KYC Yeah. No audit. I would and there's no audit. I would rather they have privacy from that custodian, and it was interoperable, and you could use it in a programmable way. Like, one of the cool parts about eCash is that the IOU itself is self custody.
It's still an IOU Sure. But but you have ownership over that IOU in a cryptographically verifiable way, so you can program you can program it in interesting zaps and shit in really cool ways when you integrate Nostra. And I feel like I let you guys off the hook with the Twitter Nostra debate that we didn't have. But, like, I I I think the zaps, like, you can do you can do really interesting things with the cash from a, like, programmable way. And it just makes it easier to run a custodian, and it makes the custodians more responsible in terms of and it doesn't make the custodians more responsible, but it makes the custodians a better model if you're gonna use a custodian in the first place because a custodian can't see all your transactions. Yeah. But I think Period. And Fedimint, it's a multi sig custodian. So you the the Liquid Federation could have implemented e cash or or some proper
[01:49:34] Unknown:
privacy. Yeah. Instead of just And it would have been way better than Confidential payments. Yeah. I I mean, yeah, I have a lot of phases. Well, if if your goal is to get privacy without trading off the custody so much
[01:49:50] ODELL:
and having full auditability, yeah, I mean, there's Yeah. I mean, NIMCAP has the point. Like, it's basically u s a USD bill. Like, a USD bill like, you have a dollar bill in your hand. I don't think anyone calls it a USD bill, but you have a dollar bill in your hand. It's basically like a self custody IOU. Right? And that's what ECash is. It's recreating the dollar bill for Bitcoin. The
[01:50:13] Unknown:
old school gold certificates and silver certificates denominated in US dollars were IOUs. They were basically e cash. But nowadays, US dollar is not an IOU. It's just pure. It's still an IOU. I mean What are you gonna redeem it for?
[01:50:34] ODELL:
And thank you guys for joining us. It's still a dispatch 135. I don't know. I mean but that's what it is. Right? It's like it's it's it's the paper bill equivalent. It's you get privacy, but you're still trusting a custodian. That's true. And with Fedimintz, it's multisig.
[01:50:52] Unknown:
Yeah. With the With Casu currently, I think, is only one custodian which makes the probability higher. Yeah. But with Fedimint, it's a federation multisig Yeah. That has to sign off of every e cash created. Yeah. So liquid and Fedimint is a bit similar in that regard. You think,
[01:51:08] ODELL:
Wiz, you've been a liquid bull for
[01:51:11] Unknown:
way too long. Is It's not a liquid bull, I tell you. I wanna I wanna accept liquid payments for, like, accelerator, but does liquid can you can I pay with liquid for accelerator?
[01:51:21] ODELL:
You cannot. Why not? Do do you not even care about liquid?
[01:51:26] Unknown:
You're literally the first person to ask that, and I know you're not seriously interested in doing that. So I actually I know the only person who would pay for it is
[01:51:37] ODELL:
is there's there's only 2 people, though. It was it's you and, maybe
[01:51:45] Unknown:
one other person. It's actually not even me. I wasn't gonna say so. Who wanted to see. Actually, I was the 1st user who topped up balance to my lightning accelerator account using liquid. So did you go to beefsteak on, Friday?
[01:51:57] ODELL:
Yep. So I'm gonna can I dox him? I'm allowed to dox him. The only person that's ever paid paid for beefsteak on liquid was Steve. We also mention this every year on Yeah. But but but, look, if you didn't But can I not liquid, there would be 0 people paying more liquid? Yeah. So instead we got one person. Yeah. So, like, when when can Steve pay for an accelerated transaction? I think liquid was a really cool idea
[01:52:22] Unknown:
5 or 6 years ago when it first came out. But for whatever reason, not blaming anybody, the ecosystem was not built around liquid. The the ecosystem was built around lightning. You mean the market didn't want liquid. Right? No. I mean, you have to make it happen. Like, Blockstream could have made all these wallets and swap services and stuff, but they didn't really. They just kind of shipped liquid and said, okay. You guys build it. Right?
[01:52:51] Unknown:
But we have Aqua now, and we have, a Yeah. Do you think Aqua makes sense?
[01:52:57] ODELL:
It's kind of, like, too little too late in my opinion. So Aqua uses lightning, but at rest, it holds everything in liquid. Yeah. It just use lightning as swaps. It doesn't And then Ambos released something similar. It's it's similar. It's called Mibanco
[01:53:11] Unknown:
app. Mhmm. I think so so you gotta remember, like, when liquid first came out, lightning was just, like, an idea and just starting out too. Right. And it wasn't really clear, like, which one Right. Liquids are much simpler. But lightning won. Like, the whole ecosystem developed on top of lightning, and literally nothing developed on top of liquid. So just being like a like a realist like a reasonable person, like, yeah, I'm gonna go use lightning because everyone use lightning.
[01:53:39] ODELL:
And nothing against liquid. It's just nobody use it. I mean, so I I can't use liquid to pay for a mempool acceleration.
[01:53:46] Unknown:
That's correct.
[01:53:47] Unknown:
We can do it every time, but we started off. That's the true story.
[01:53:55] ODELL:
Well, I feel like you guys are just gonna get you're gonna get playing by, like, the 3 liquid wolves for not accepting that pull acceleration now after I think we should support the Bitcoin ecosystem and by support. Wiz is the one stopping it. Right? Is that what you're saying, Sam? I think we should support e cash and Arc going forward. Arc doesn't exist. Can it exist without a soft fork? On liquid. But it needs a fork. Right? Arc on liquid? Yeah. It's exist Are you bullish on Arc on liquid? It's like a layer. It might act as a test then right now, but I actually tried it for You're gonna, like, go through the trouble of supporting it, and then, like, 95% of people are gonna use Apple Pay to pay for their accelerations.
Gonna happen. Not going to go through the troubles for you. Okay. M z m z's on his he's bank he's banked, like, 10 questions. This is his 7th question. In a very high fee market, people will start using liquid. Also, swap from lightning to this is not a question. You sure about that? There in a high fee market, people aren't gonna use liquid. No. Maybe. We already saw it. That's happened. The the problem No one no one used liquid in the high 90s. Is that It's like Stefan, like, said, like, I'm using liquid, and then no one used it. The problem is that the tools aren't really there. Right? It's like,
[01:55:10] Unknown:
where's my
[01:55:11] ODELL:
multisig cold storage? Where's my Well, why would you have multisig cold storage on liquid?
[01:55:17] Unknown:
Does not support. Right? It's like What doesn't what doesn't support? I don't really wanna, like
[01:55:24] Unknown:
like Should we fight about liquid? It's like there's a million things that just don't exist on liquid. Right? Whereas on Bitcoin I would like to see a coin joint implementation on liquid. Exactly. Like that would be good. No. There's a million things like like that that could have been built 5, 6 years ago, but then no one built it. Nobody What we what we're lacking is the Bitcoin super app, A great app that has everything that be people use today with Bitcoin, but it also has liquid and it will automatically use liquid. Oh, it's not Aqua or no? Yeah. But then it's like a new wallet you have to start using. So you have one wallet for this and one of the If you want the super app, it's obviously gotta be a new wallet. With my Phoenix wallet, I can pay lightning and on chain. It automatically figures out Yeah. Based on the QR code. But not liquid. No.
[01:56:06] ODELL:
So Awesome. Well, guys, this has been fantastic. I've really enjoyed this one. I think this has been a prolific episode. I'm glad this is the first one after the break. I think, I wouldn't I I wouldn't rather have it with anyone else than you guys. Can we talk about the accelerator? Yeah. What do you wanna talk about? I mean, the accelerator is so awesome that we'd like you talk about it for 15 minutes, like, it just fucking works. What else do you wanna talk about? Do you have something to talk about?
[01:56:34] Unknown:
I don't know. I I thought we would talk more about You're the host. It's just we worked on this thing for 5 years. Oh, wow. Ocean mind a blog. Wow. Congratulations,
[01:56:47] Unknown:
guys. 1st in a week. That was actually causing a bug for our interface. They were only touching the pools that have mined the block in the past week. And so when it went over 1 a week, it started crashing. So
[01:57:03] ODELL:
So now we're good. You didn't have to fix the bug. Right. But you did fix it. Right? It's fixed, but not in production. So Well, we were busy with other things. Did they mine it? No. They didn't mine. Oh, that's unlucky. They didn't mine any accelerated transactions? But they had mined in the previous Not today. Not today. But Not today. So what do you want Wizz, what do you wanna talk about the accelerator? Let's talk about it. I just think I'm happy to chat about it. I just think,
[01:57:28] Unknown:
the psychology of the accelerator is such that nobody cares about the accelerator until they have a stuck transaction. And that is the best thing that's ever And then they're like, oh, yes. Give me the accelerator. No. And it's an it's like a very high time preference concept. And that's why well, because, like, if you're if you're in trouble, right, like your transaction stuck. I need it. You need it right now. Yeah. But if you are low time preference,
[01:57:58] ODELL:
you're not gonna, like, set up your accelerator account. You're not going to like. Well, I mean, if you're you don't need it. That's the cool part is you don't need an accelerator account.
[01:58:08] Unknown:
Right. And and that's kind of why we didn't build it to require we we, you know, don't require an account. MZ asks thank you, MZ.
[01:58:19] ODELL:
He's got 5 more questions left.
[01:58:22] Unknown:
Do you have examples of transactions that are stuck and a good candidate for the accelerator?
[01:58:28] ODELL:
Lightning force lightning force closes. Yeah. All the lightning shit.
[01:58:32] Unknown:
All the lightning shit. Actually, yeah.
[01:58:35] Unknown:
We should make a filter for that so we can And then, also,
[01:58:39] ODELL:
anytime you deposit into, like, an exchange or something, like, you deposit in the custodial wallet where you can't You can't fee bump it. And if you do yeah. If you if you can't do it, even do a CPFP because you did a full you just full send max send to Cash App or something.
[01:58:56] Unknown:
You know what it's actually really good for is, I think, 2 or 3 use cases. Number 1 is when yeah. Say you have a Cash App account and someone sends you SATs into your cash up account. Oh, what's that? But at once, they listen to Catan. They're like, one separate bites going to clear this. I think a year and a half ago. You can't RBF it because you don't have the keys. You can't see it because you don't have the keys. Yeah. And all you can do is accelerate it. And then the another good use case is like a multisig vault where all the keyholders are in different countries, and it takes 24 hours for everyone to sign. And by the time you get everyone to sign, the fees went through the roof. Yep. And, it's just it's just buried in the mempool or sometimes not even broad castable because it's below the purge rate, and you need the accelerator.
[01:59:49] Unknown:
But, honestly, I think in reality, 90% of accelerations will be people that don't know what they're doing. They don't know what RBF is, and they're using a wallet that's shitty. Yeah. It's just easier UX than RBF or CPFB.
[02:00:03] ODELL:
Right. Right. Right. So so just somehow, if you're 2 hours into Citadel dispatch, 135, and you do not understand what RBF replaced by fee or CPFP is, child pays for parent. Let me explain it to you. So replace by fee is you're the sender, and your wallet supports replace by fee. You send a transaction. It's stuck in the mempool. You open Sparrow or whatever wallet you're using, but you probably should just be using Sparrow. And you wanna you your fee is stuck your transaction is stuck. You can replace it with a new transaction that has a higher fee. You're the sender in that situation. Child pays for parent.
You receive a transaction, and you have this transaction. You can take that transaction, and you can send another transaction with a much higher fee rate. And then that child gets confirmed with that parent transaction. Child pays for parent, and then it gets confirmed. Now we'll say in the CPFP situation actually, in both situations, it's kinda hard to estimate what fee you want to set to get into the next block. And with your UX, it's just way, way, way, way easier. Yeah. You can And, also, just conceptually, it's just easier to cons you know, like, understand. Right? Like, you just go to mempool.space
[02:01:29] Unknown:
and just Yeah. You need a special calculator for CPFB to hit the right fee. It's so hard. And also you might end up paying a lot. Way more. You need to pay a new transaction with a very high fee. Yeah. That bumps the other ones. And if the other transaction has a lot of inputs. Yeah. Like, it might be really high.
[02:01:47] ODELL:
And you have no idea and then it might not even get confirmed. Like, the mempool mempools might run run away from you, and then it just doesn't even get confirmed.
[02:01:56] Unknown:
If your transaction is stuck, use mempool accelerator.
[02:02:01] ODELL:
I mean, Wiz, you're the one who wanna like, I I The beauty of this is it required a lot of work, but it's so easy and Yeah. It's hard to talk about. It's hard to talk about. It's hard to talk about. Discuss.
[02:02:13] Unknown:
It's cool. I I think you wanted to talk about, goats and other things anyway. Who? Me? Yeah. Liquid. No. No. The the the ride or die free. The chat the chat Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steered this conversation.
[02:02:26] ODELL:
I mean, like, I I just want you to be Nostar only. Like, I'm a simple man. But I never even tweet anything anyway. Yeah. But when you do, you should just not, and you should just post it on noster. And we'll, Yeah. We have if you can go zap you. If you go to primal.net/mempool,
[02:02:43] Unknown:
you can see we tweeted something 10 hours ago. What about primal.net/wiz?
[02:02:48] ODELL:
Like, hey. You haven't posted in a while. Well, I didn't tweet anything from there either. Okay. I tweeted Odell was right about an hour ago. Oh, you did? Because someone told me to. You did. How how was the engagement on that? Are the people loving it? Are you are you FOMO ing for Twitter engagement? I don't know. I can't I can't see it because it has a paywall now. Like, I I not a paywall, but a login wall. Like, you can't check it unless you have a Twitter account. It's okay. I forgive you. Thank you for saying I was right.
[02:03:21] Unknown:
Everyone wants to know what you were right about, though. Is that what they're all Yes. Okay?
[02:03:27] ODELL:
Well, clearly not paying attention because plenty of things. Guys, this has been a pleasure. Thanks for coming to Nashville.
[02:03:39] Unknown:
Of course. We came here for you. The conference was just a satellite event. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Bitcoin Park was the main event. Yeah. I stayed just near Bitcoin Park. He came here every day.
[02:03:50] Unknown:
I think I went to a conference one day to see that, the Trump thing, historical.
[02:03:55] ODELL:
So
[02:03:56] Unknown:
it's a moment. And also Wiz's announcement, of course. That was my 2 slots on the He just saved his ass. Otherwise, I just hang out to The company was about to break apart. Yeah.
[02:04:11] ODELL:
Are you you guys are both leaving tomorrow? Yeah. I guess. You know we have Rust Bitcoin week this week. Right? Did you see all the developers upstairs?
[02:04:23] Unknown:
Yeah. We saw them. Yeah. We we we're busy. We're running the mempool. We have to accelerate You're running You're running the mempool. The conspiracies are real. There's only one mempool. Right? Pretty much. I mean, it's funny how that we kind of memed that into existence, but
[02:04:41] ODELL:
Let your memes be dreams. Oh, Simon's getting calls. Simon's important.
[02:04:46] Unknown:
You can put on speaker phone. They can join the call. It's like Marty's dad calling into the show. Is that your dad? You should put him on the show. What's a friend? What's a big winner, actually?
[02:04:56] ODELL:
Nashville's cool.
[02:04:57] Unknown:
Nice. Good vibes. You should have callers on the show. I think that'd be pretty cool. Should we have a caller? But how would they call in? You'd have to use Twitter.
[02:05:06] ODELL:
Well, they can call me on signal. Oh, signal? Yeah. I could just hold it. When Mark's dad calls, they just hold it on speakerphone. Boomer. Uncle Boomer. Guys, this has been great. I have nothing else to ask you. Do you have anything to ask me? AMA. No. You're tired. MC has a we have a question from the live studio audience. MC, what's your question? Are you tired? He's at Mz is asking me if I'm tired. I'm exhausted. It's been a long fucking week. That's true. I think
[02:05:44] Unknown:
I think I'm glad it's over. It was great, but I'm glad it's over. It felt like a decade. But it was a great experience. It was a hell of a conference.
[02:05:52] ODELL:
It was really it was it was it was a good it was a good week. It was it was a monumental week. It was a momentous week. It was it was pretty ridiculous sitting next to RZA during the livestream just like, we are moments away from the Literally minutes away from the 47th president of the United States joining us on stage with a special guest, Matthew Odell. What do you how do you feel about this situation? That was pretty ridiculous, but it was a pleasure to be a part of it. Honestly, I think you guys give you guys give Rizm a little bit too much shit. Not you guys. But Are you pumped for the Vegas conference? I'm not. It conflicts with HRF with, Oslo.
Oh. So I will not be going.
[02:06:43] Unknown:
I think Nashville was great for the conference venue. I'm kinda sad to see it go to Vegas, honestly. Like I thought it was gonna move here now because of Well, in their defense in their defense, their conference center wasn't had no openings
[02:06:55] ODELL:
for next year. Nashville's, like, sneaky one of whole year? Yeah. Nashville's, like, sneaky one of the best places to have a conference. So, like, their that conference center is, like, heavily booked. Woah. Oh, oh, that's a good one. Ivan said he said that so many times even in front of doctor Ron Paul. I was that whole time, I was wearing the same headphones as as Ron Paul. I never had a moment to mention that on a live stream, but that was cool. Same headphones. Our ears our ears kinda kissed.
[02:07:28] Unknown:
Yeah. That's cool. That's a moment.
[02:07:30] Unknown:
Yeah. I don't know about I mean, maybe, like, for a DEF CONs or CES sized conference, you gotta go to Vegas. But I still feel like the Bitcoin conference would have done very nicely in Nashville for at least a few more years. Yeah. I thought everything good fit. I mean, literally,
[02:07:46] ODELL:
I Vegas is it makes sense from, like, a conference running perspective, but it like, my pitch to so many people I talk to is that, like, Bitcoin is the safe haven asset. It's the conservative asset. It's it's it's the freedom asset. It's the thing that you just hold long term for your kids and your children, and you can spend it without permission, and you you can you can save it without permission. And and Vegas is very much a paradise. And it was always like to me, it was like, you have Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the is the humble one, and then you have shit coins, which is the degen one and going to, like, degen centers.
Kind of a bad look, but, also, you know, I understand where they're coming from. But my point is, if you're competing with if you're completing with the Oslo Freedom Forum, like, I just can't like, I go to I go to HRF events. Like, that's just how it is. Like, it's the one event that I'll always go to. It's it's special and activists from around the world to go there, and it is what it is. So, Nostra, you're gonna use it more? Can you promise that you'll use it more with Yeah. We've been tweet I mean, we've been posting from the the. Every time you send a LinkedIn message, will you repost it it to Nasir? LinkedIn. Fuck LinkedIn. I mean, you didn't say you didn't. LinkedIn is when you're looking for a job. Would you think I have LinkedIn? I don't know. You know, to connect with the suits that I don't wanna accelerate their transactions.
What?
[02:09:23] Unknown:
We have a lot of tweet not tweets. We have a lot of posts on Nostril. We have a lot of goats and other stuff on Nostril. Primal.net/menpool.
[02:09:33] ODELL:
You can follow the mempool over the phone on on Nostril. Simon, are you on Nostril at all? Like, I feel like I've let you off the hook. I'm on Nostril. Do you post?
[02:09:42] Unknown:
I post occasionally. I post more on Twitter. Do you zap?
[02:09:47] ODELL:
Okay. Occasionally. I feel like you should zap more. Okay. Okay. Okay. I I don't mean to shame you guys. I I love both of you guys. MZ, you have 5 questions left. We're just we'll let you bank that for the next episode. Round? No. No. There'll be a next episode. There's always a next episode.
[02:10:05] Unknown:
But not when he's on the sofa.
[02:10:08] ODELL:
Yeah. Well, next I mean, next time, he can just join from the live chat wherever he is. By the way, MZ, thank you for coming to Nashville. It's been an honor and a privilege to to host you over here. You get you are a fucking legend. I you know, when I introduced MZ, I introduced him as a default electrum node on, Sparrow. That's the only thing that's the introduction. The highest honor. Yeah. I feel like that's legit. Wiz, final thoughts.
[02:10:34] Unknown:
Thanks for having us on the show. It's been many, many years that you've been having me and Simon on the show, and it's been cool to kind of come on every once in a while and and give us a chance to show our wares and look back in the the past time we were on the show and think, oh, wow. The project has grown quite a lot since then.
[02:10:55] ODELL:
But it's funny how we always kinda say the same stuff every episode more or less. You kinda love it. It's special. Yeah. It's it's special. Well, thanks for coming back on. Simon, final thoughts.
[02:11:04] Unknown:
Well, it's cool to be on once again, and I hope next time we're on the feeds are gonna be, like, a 1,000 sats per vbyte to get into the You think they will be? Yeah. They're gonna stabilize around a few 100 sats, 3 v bytes next time. When is it gonna be? When's the next time? Next time is, maybe a year from now? A year from now. A year from now, it's gonna be a 1,000 steps. We're gonna come back to you next year. So a couple of 100. Let's say a 100. A few 100. A 100? 100 starts for right next time. Yeah. And I think it's gonna stabilize around a few 100, like, every year, year after year. That's right, bud.
[02:11:39] ODELL:
Thank you, guys. Mhmm. Love you, freaks. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. What condition my condition was in. Ambition was myself crawling up as I was Yeah. Yeah. Love you, freaks. I got a couple more rips this week. No. I'll probably take a little bit of a break before Riga. Riga is gonna be loaded with rips. I love you all. You can keep track of what comes next on the show either at primal.net/odell on my Noster account, or our our dope seal dispatch matrix chat that is still running wild. All those links are at still dispatch.com. Huge, huge love, huge shout out to both Wiz and Simon and everyone at the mempool.space team, for what they built.
And huge shout out for you freaks for continuing to support the show. By the way, that song was Kenny Rogers in the first edition. I think it's called just dropped in. Yeah. Just dropped in. 1972. Legit. Anyway, I love you all. I hope you're building your strategic Bitcoin reserve personally, and, stay humble, StackSats. Peace.
Senator Lummis Strategic Bitcoin Reserve
Introduction to Show
Live Audience Chat
Upcoming Guests and Political Discussions
Personal Bitcoin Reserves and Strategic Planning
Reflections on the Recent Conference
Discussion on Trump's Bitcoin Speech
Conference Highlights and Side Events
Bitcoin's Political Landscape
Strategic Bitcoin Reserve and Government Policies
Security and Logistics at the Conference
Bitcoin's Growing Influence
Open Source Development and Legal Challenges
Market Reactions and Predictions
Global Impact of US Bitcoin Policies
Bitcoin's Adoption Cycle and Future Predictions
Conference Reflections and Future Plans
Foundry's Role in Bitcoin Mining
Bitcoin Park and Community Engagement
Nation-State Adoption of Bitcoin
Bitcoin Strategic Reserves and Policy Proposals
Challenges and Opportunities in Bitcoin Policy
Open Source Funding and Grants
Mempool Project and Sustainable Funding
Transaction Accelerator Development
Technical Details of the Transaction Accelerator
Ethical Considerations and Market Impact
Future of Bitcoin Mempools
Bitcoin Price Predictions and Market Dynamics
Community Questions and Interaction
Discussion on Liquid and Other Technologies
Reflections on the Conference and Future Plans
Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks
