r0ckstardev: https://twitter.com/r0ckstardev
suheb__: https://twitter.com/suheb__
EPISODE: 0.1.2
BLOCK: 673909
PRICE: 1842 sats per dollar
TOPICS: Lightning
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Alright. Pizza view time. Let me get this off. Miami, that was a weird, like, walkout because I'm still doing it alone. Pizzetti, new pizza place, pizzeria and wine bar. Where are we? Menu looks great. We're at, 1223 Lincoln Road. He he I don't know. These guys didn't know me in there. I'm almost positive they didn't know me. They may have been googling me after. Pizza's huge, by the way. And if I'm not mistaken, it was, like, $40 $35, which is insane for pizza. Looks really good. The other part of what they were telling me, which I can't tell if they knew me or didn't know me or what they were doing, they're like, do you wanna pay for it in Bitcoin? Are you trolling me, dude? They're like, do you own crypto? I'm like, alright, Tom. Alright, fucking parabolic guy. Like, no. I'm not paying Bitcoin. I'm paying fucking cash.
Like, why? You don't own crypto? What are you stupid? Do you want your score to go through the roof? I sold my crypto. Everyone knows I sold crypto at 11,000. The market's tanking. I don't need the guys to give me a Bitcoin lecture. It's fucking crazy. Diamond hands paper, and I'm just trying to eat pizza. I'm getting fucking ripped. Marcus Baker to come back. Oh, this is nice. You know what? This
[00:01:13] Unknown:
super light?
[00:01:15] Unknown:
You know what this reminds me of? Upper crust and upper crust prices too. I just spit. I don't care. Deal with it. One bite everybody knows rules. Pizzetti, solo pizza review, working, doing it. Let's do it. These Bitcoiners can make some pizza. This is good. What are they doing? Bitcoin? I've never heard they want paying Bitcoin? I'm like, no, Casa. You sure you don't wanna do Bitcoin? What's up with you and Bitcoin? It's really good pizza. It was right up there with my favorite Miami. People know about this place, Bazette. You gotta save up. You gotta have your multiples, $40 or 35. 38 with $38 for this pizza. That is ridiculous, but it's very good.
It actually reminds me of of Upper Crust in Boston. I think Upper Crust went out of business because they weren't paying their workers. I I don't know if these guys are paying Bitcoin, but this is very good pizza. This is I really like this.
[00:02:38] Unknown:
Who the hell is that?
[00:02:40] Unknown:
I'm gonna ask this guy. This is one of the waiters. They're Bitcoin. I'm gonna see if he gets it. See if he see if he'll talk to me on Bitcoin real quick. Hey. I'm making a video. Why why did you want me to pay for Bitcoin? Why are you so why are you so in on Bitcoin?
[00:02:58] Unknown:
No. It's not only Bitcoin. It's the crypto world. Everything. So everyone who comes here, you try to be like, no. No. No. No. It's just, just you because I just was making investment.
[00:03:08] Unknown:
You have no idea who I am, though. Right? Yeah. I know. Oh, you did. So you're busting my balls. Exactly. Alright. Tell me I I thought you guys didn't know. I was like, what are these fuckers talking about Bitcoin. They're trying to get wishing everybody the same, but you Oh, thank you. I thought you guys just randomly I'm like, fuck these guys. Bitcoin. Alright. That makes more sense. Alright. The pizza's really good. I was between 7981. That's how good I think it is. I'm gonna go 79. They have more tang, but this is, like, as good as you can get, but you better invest in Bitcoin and make, like, triple your money to afford it. 38 bucks. That's a review. Really, really good pizza. Awesome date spot too, even though I'm alone like a lunatic. Pizzetti, 1 bite review.
[00:04:32] Unknown:
What is up, freaks? It's your boy, Matt Odell, for another Bitcoin Tuesday celebration. Welcome back to Citadel Dispatch. This is episode 12, the interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems, privacy, and open source software. We are joined here by my good friends, Rockstar Dev and Suheb. Very excited about this conversation. I've been trying to get both of them on Tales From the Crypt for a long fucking time. It's been too long since I've seen them in person. I'm very good friends. So I'm happy to have them here virtually. We will be discussing majority of the Lightning Network, but we'll be talking about a lot of different things today.
That was Dave Portnoy on that clip. I think that goes without saying for the majority of freaks out there, but Dave Portnoy is the CEO and founder of Barstool Sports who famously, decided to buy link, because the the the Winklevoss shield him shit coins. And he bought some Bitcoin too, and he sold at 11,000. And since then, we've been trolling him. And as you can tell, Bitcoiners are everywhere. He can't escape them. He was at, pizzas pizza spot in Miami, and, they were trolling him about Bitcoin there. So he cannot escape it. Is on his mind. He will have to capitulate eventually at much higher prices, and, you know, he should just he should just learn to stay humble and and stack some stats.
With that said, big warm welcome to Rockstar and Suheb. Rockstar is best known for his work on LN Strike and BTC pay server. Suheb is well known for his work on RTL. That's Ride the Lightning. Ride the Lightning and BTC pay server are 2 of the most important, open source lightning projects available, so they're perfect, guests for this conversation. And with that, I would like to start with rock star. Rock star, how's it going?
[00:06:36] Unknown:
Crazy. Because, man, you have some quite quite some setup here. I'm trying to stay on, like, YouTube comments, Twitter. This video.
[00:06:47] Unknown:
You don't have to do that now because now that the video is done, the comments are directly on your screen. You see it's pulling the comments from Twitch, Twitter, and YouTube directly on your screen.
[00:06:58] Unknown:
Yeah. But, I want to interact with all our great audience, man. Like, you have the best freaks. I now wish I have this and, like, Sunday Coding with Uncle Rockstar, but that's the thing, man. Like, us Bitcoiners always learning from each other, so glad to be here with you and Suheb.
[00:07:17] Unknown:
So you just brought that up. I mean, before we get to Suheb, let's just jump into some decoding with, Uncle Rockstar. This is something that you've been doing recently, and I I every Sunday, you broadcast this out on on Twitch, Twitter, and YouTube. Right?
[00:07:32] Unknown:
Yep. Yeah. And, I mean, as I said to you in the intro to this video, like, I I found it so funny that you also started this in December a little bit earlier. What can you do when you're, like, full time podcaster? I'm a developer. So it seems like Bitcoin spoke to us both at the same time, but you're ahead, man. Like, you're always ahead of me. Like, I need I need to catch up on this whole thing. So, yeah, I'm I'm essentially streaming, how the sausage is made, like, behind all that BDC based server coding, trying to get more contributors in. And, I already know, you and me, we're going to do episode where your coding will make a proper Cypherpunk out of you because Cypherpunks write code.
[00:08:22] Unknown:
So I I just can't wait for that one. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. I mean, you said I I'm a full time podcaster. I mean, it it depends on how you wanna argue semantics. I mean, I right now, I got, like, 5 different jobs going on. Yeah. But, I I do, I am I am devoting about 10, 12 hours to this shit, so there there's there's something to be said there.
[00:08:44] Unknown:
No. If I if I may jump in into that one because I I would call you, evangelist. Like, you're one of the best evangelists that Bitcoin has. And, what is it? Like, podcast or no? You're just, like, spreading this positive message, and I think that message that you came up with, it's like, stay humble, which I have for all our great freaks here. Like, that's such a great message, and,
[00:09:10] Unknown:
just keep doing, man, what you're doing. You're best evangelist we have. Cheers to that. I mean, basically, what I'm thinking right now is I'm just going really hard this year, and then I might just disappear. So I love you, freaks. I almost tweeted out today, feeling cute might go dark, but I didn't, and I'm still here. But, this number go up is a, a very tiring thing. Before we move on to Suheb, I just wanted to say real quick. I I'm trying to learn how Twitch works. This is broadcast via Twitch. It's broadcast via Twitch, YouTube, and Twitter. You can find all the links at citadel dispatch.com, then the archives are posted to Keybase and Telegram, so you can download them in full with no ads.
And then they're also posted to both our tales from the crypt podcast feed where the majority of people right now are probably listening to us, and then also a dedicated seasonal dispatch feed where you can search there. But I'm trying to get my my hands dirty with Twitch, and I'm pretty sure, like, there's, like, some kind of partnership we can do. Right? We're, like, Sunday Coding with Rockstar broadcast this, and then I broadcast Sunday Coding with Rockstar from Citadel Dispatch. Like, is that is that a possibility? I think that's a thing we can do. Right?
[00:10:19] Unknown:
Absolutely, man. Like, that's why we're here when Bitcoin connects us, and then we we do more as a sum than individual parts.
[00:10:28] Unknown:
So let's do that. Let's do, let's let's set it up. Let's figure out how to set it up so that that this broadcast via your Twitch and and and that that, coding with Uncle Rockstar broadcast out of the Citadel dispatch Twitch. I think that'd be a great idea. I'm trying to make the Twitch feed, I'm I'm trying to lean in and learn about Twitch. I had, the full Citadel dispatch archive of 30 hours, 11 episodes, broadcast straight with no ads or anything on Twitch over the weekend. It was just so, like, there was, like, people who, like, tuned in and just spent, like, 6 hours just, like, listening and watching Bitcoin,
[00:11:08] Unknown:
which I I just thought was really cool that you could just do that. Yeah. Because people feel the energy, man. And, what I was tweeting out before this episode is because we've been singing this chorus for last 10 years, like, people like you, people like me, people like Suhab, and now we have, like, billionaires joining this chorus, and it's exciting. And we just need to find place for all our Bitcoin plebs because we all can contribute and make better system, more fair system.
[00:11:37] Unknown:
I love I love I I just I love this idea that the billionaires are just they they have, like, names on Twitter. Suheb, how's it going over there?
[00:11:47] Unknown:
It's going great. Thank you for having me here. I don't know whether Rockstar remembers, but the first time I met Rockstar, it was in November of 2018, and we were in a lightning hackathon, in New York City. So it was a yeah. So it was a 2 day hackathon. So I and I was actually conscious about the laptop that I was carrying. I thought I had a very big outdated laptop. So 1st day, officer was not there. So 2nd day, I went, and, incidentally, the place that I was sitting at, there was another, you know, massive laptop parked right next to me. And it was Rockstar's laptop. So then I said, oh, man. I thought I was conscious about mine. You got even bigger one than than I do. So that was my introduction with lap, with Rockstar.
So yeah. It's me. The
[00:12:36] Unknown:
Man, you won't believe the joke. Like, I overdid the Rockstar mode. Like, now I have a laptop with 2, like, adapters for power. Yeah. I'm pulling it. Right. I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you in the picture.
[00:12:52] Unknown:
You deserve that. You deserve it. No. I already Yeah. And I got a buy a Bitcoin pin, from Rockstar there, which I still have to carry. It's a it's a proud position that I have. So and a and a 100 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 denari note. So yeah. And which you, you know, autographed. So I have those those two things too.
[00:13:18] Unknown:
The one the one thing you can guarantee at any Bitcoin conference or meetup is that they have some kind of shitty fiat Yeah. All over the place.
[00:13:27] Unknown:
Right.
[00:13:28] Unknown:
It's a very, kitsch Bitcoin thing. Yeah. We love we love our shitty fiat.
[00:13:34] Unknown:
That's why we Bitcoin.
[00:13:37] Unknown:
So what when was this? Was this during shitcoin week, the consensus week in New York?
[00:13:43] Unknown:
No, man.
[00:13:44] Unknown:
No. I don't think at that time there was a consensus. It was a a full most hackathon of lightning.
[00:13:49] Unknown:
In in New York?
[00:13:51] Unknown:
In New York. Yeah. It was actually near the bull right in downtown.
[00:13:56] Unknown:
Yeah. And Fulmo is organizing all the great conferences. For example, Berlin Berlin, the for, like, lightning, conference was FOMO.
[00:14:06] Unknown:
They're they're European based. Aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. German. That's why it caught me off guard that they had a New York based one. That's pretty cool.
[00:14:14] Unknown:
They they did it especially for us, like, in US, and the next one was, like, kinda let's do Texas, but, yeah, COVID hit.
[00:14:24] Unknown:
Well, anyway, shout out to Fullmo. They have some great YouTube content. So the the people that the listeners who are are visiting us via YouTube, and might not be aware of them, someone in the comments said that the Flatiron School, was where they hosted it. Yep. Exactly. So shout out to the Flatiron School. But if you type in Fullmo, into YouTube, their channels should come up. They have a lot of great content on there, so you should go check it out. Another thing for the YouTube freaks to keep in mind is we appreciate when you press that like button on YouTube, but I just want you to know that it does kind of go to waste because as soon as this live stream ends, YouTube copyright flags me and then makes me reupload, and we lose all the likes. So if you are if you are if you do want to, like, have extra credit, go back to the YouTube after after I reupload and then add another add another like on top, and that that would be appreciated, I guess. I mean, I don't really care. I think we're just gonna get banned from YouTube eventually, but I do appreciate you guys. And the number one thing you can do is really while the livestream is going on, is retweet it on Twitter because that's where all the big corners are.
So cheers to you guys for that. I don't know where I wanna start. I I just kind of to be honest, I I let's start with number go up, before we go to lightning. I I got I got the price chart on on the feed. This is what we always do. It looked really nice when I was doing the 30 hours because you just saw the price pumping from the beginning of Citadel dispatch to the end, which is I'm looking forward to the end of the year. It's gonna be fucking ridiculous when there's just, like, a 1000 hours of Citadel dispatch, and and you just see the price pumping during the whole thing. Number go up has got me this is the best drug in the world, but at the same time, yeah, it's the best drug in the world. We had we had this billionaire.
I'm not gonna try and pronounce his name, but he has, this this this corporation in in in Norway. He's the one of the 10 richest people in Norway. A k e r, Aker, I think, is or Aker is how you pronounce it. And he did the shareholder letter where he'd announced that they were going into Bitcoin really hard. They were starting a whole Bitcoin unit called CD. Did you guys read that shareholder letter?
[00:16:45] Unknown:
I I did, and I was pissed.
[00:16:48] Unknown:
Why? Because Jack Jack Mahler's got the mention, but you didn't get the mention?
[00:16:52] Unknown:
No. I'm I'm glad that Jack Mahler's got dimension, but why didn't I get dimension, man? I I, like, organized that actually. But it's probably this name ism of they don't wanna put Rockstar developer in shit.
[00:17:08] Unknown:
You know, it's not serious, this and that, but it's I really learned a lot from this Vin Diesel motherfucker.
[00:17:17] Unknown:
Yeah. That's what is always funny with me, Vin Diesel. Do you know that when me and, John Carvotto, like, he was organizing some merch and he put my profile image while still it was Vin Diesel, And he was making, like, panties. And they wouldn't sell the panties, like, because it had a picture of Vin Diesel. And, like, that was hilarious, man. But now on hoodie, now I can go on all I'll I'll always remember before I met you at,
[00:17:46] Unknown:
bit block boom 2019, you, like, DM ed me. We're, like, really excited to meet you. Like, I just wanna let you know, like, I'm shorter than Vin Diesel. I, like, don't wanna get your hopes up. And then you met me, and you're, like, oh, fuck. We're both short. No. I'm not short, man. Still in the DM. Don't make me post screenshots. So you'll yeah. My cyberpunk friend betraying. So Let's talk about let's talk about this letter because I guess you have some behind the scenes you were you part of that conversation with him, with Jack?
[00:18:24] Unknown:
Yes. And, I don't know how much I I should reveal, but they they are the real deal. I don't know. Like, were you involved with the whole thing? Because they they kinda want to do it the proper way. And
[00:18:38] Unknown:
I mean, I like to think he I like to think he read my shit posts and, like, listens to the podcast, but I wasn't, like, specifically involved. I didn't get to mention like Jack did. He even he even mentioned, that professor, Michael Green or whatever. He, like, mentioned Bitcoin deniers because they helped him learn that they were wrong.
[00:18:56] Unknown:
Yeah. That was but but that's that's where you and me, Matt, should accept that Bitcoin wants us in different, like, audience and crowd. Because in the end, billionaires will be parting with us in you know, after midnight, they won't be mentioning us in in shareholder, you know, letters because it's not convenient.
[00:19:16] Unknown:
So we should just embrace that one, man, you and me. Yeah. I'm fine I'm fine with not getting mentioned in the shareholder letter, man. That that was the most bullish thing I ever fucking read. Suheb, you're completely, you know Rockstar's biased and, like, can't give his true opinions because he was part of the conversations. He's trying to be a gentleman here. Were were you as blown away as me? Like, I fucking read this thing in the morning yesterday, and I just literally couldn't and and this this is coming from someone who's obviously, been very focused on the space for years.
I talk about it all the time every week on air, on the record. I expect very big things for Bitcoin. I'm as bullish as they come, and it just caught me off guard. It caught me off guard, and I was just in shock almost.
[00:20:03] Unknown:
Yeah. Unfortunately, I've not read it, but I did catch the highlights. Oh, my god. I have not read it. But I I'm planning to read it, though. But I did caught, catch the highlights, on Twitter. So it's a You have to read it, man. Yeah. Yeah. But it has to happen. I mean, that that's that's how the Bitcoin is designed. That's what is going to happen. But, yeah, it does feel exciting to be, you know, going through that journey, but, it's all eventual. It should now be in a, you know, inner peace moment rather than rather than, you know yeah. Maybe, yeah, it's time to celebrate as well. But yeah. So
[00:20:45] Unknown:
so we have Paul Miller in the audience right now, and he said he read the first half. It seemed really bullish. Does it get more bullish? Paul, what happened to me was I read the first half. It was so bullish that I had to stop reading. Like, I just lost concentration, and then I went That's what I went. And I I continued it. It gets even it gets even better. It's fucking insane. Like, the dude the dude literally at one point says, I I'm not telling my friends and family to put everything they own into Bitcoin. The lawyers say that's litigation risk, implying that he's telling you to put everything you own into Bitcoin. Yeah. Like, he literally just wrote it down on the paper that way, you know, to to cover his ass to a degree, but but that's, like, the most like, he sounded like one of us.
Right? He sounded like you have this this this 60 year old billionaire, renowned businessman, and he sounds like a Bitcoin pleb on Twitter. Well, this this much I can tell is that
[00:21:44] Unknown:
I mean, from speaking with the guy and hearing him speak, he definitely seems like one of us. It's just that, yeah, he was born in different era wherein all this technology was not available, but he, like, he gets the idea, especially because they, as a company, yeah, they understand the problems. Like, settlement is, is a huge issue, and most of people are oblivious to how you're actually settling, you know, the purchase that happens on one end of the world and you need to deliver the goods from, you know, another end of the world. So, yeah, I I could get I I get I mean, that part, Roger.
How bonish it would be if you were in the conversation?
[00:22:30] Unknown:
I mean, yeah, that part makes sense to me. Okay? Like like like, you hear Jack speak. Right? And you and you he's talking about settlement and sending Bitcoin at the speed of light, and and and having having both in a network that you can scale privately, but also interoperable in an open way, is bullish as fuck. And everyone knows that, you know, like, there are few there are there are there are few podcast conversations that are more bullish than ones that Jack Maurer's are a part of. We're all aware of that. But he was red pilled even farther than that. He was talking, like, pro privacy, like, anti KYC, you know, like, this is, like those are things that you just never I you just don't expect. He basically said Bitcoin's designed to pump forever, which, by the way, I wanna get you both on the record agreeing with as part of this show.
Yeah. But but but but but the but the the settle like, transferring value across borders, and we'll go farther into this because of of the topic of of today's episode anyway, is like an obvious place where I expect businessmen to get orange build. Right? It was the other things on top of that that really caught me off guard. Does that make sense? You mean you mean, like, anti KYC and all that stuff? He was, like, talking about, like, sovereignty and privacy and no KYC and and permissionless and, you know, open network. Like, it was it was very much a, you know, it it it was very it was very much like a self sovereignty manifesto in 23 pages.
[00:24:10] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as I am telling you, like, I can definitely give my seal of approval from the meeting I had and, you know, the stuff that I've listened, from from the guy in question, like, billionaire in question. To me, he does seem very sincere. And that's the thing with Bitcoin is because all the stuff that we as Bitcoiners are talking about, like, I I would think, like, it's it's really widely distributed across the world. Just there wasn't any unifying force that would connect, you know, you, Matt, and me so that we can do stuff together. But now there is. You know? There is Bitcoin.
So, finally, you and me have an excuse to connect. You know, me and Sue have have excuse to connect and work on something together. And that's what I think is is happening also with billionaires because billionaires are also people that, you know, have their own dreams and wishes. And when they recognize how, you know, honest this is, how great this whole system is. I mean, you know, they see it. They they see something that they've been missing, and they wanna join the party. And and I'm always, yeah, non KYC people that are in our, you know, cypherpunk philosophy view, which I think anyone sane is, but, they just didn't have the tools that they have now with, you know, Bitcoin and the whole movement. So because as you, Matt, say again, another your great saying is no privacy, no freedom.
That's
[00:25:50] Unknown:
Yes. In all caps.
[00:25:52] Unknown:
Okay. YouTube comments also. I'll
[00:25:56] Unknown:
Did you see the YouTube? I love the freaks. They're all just all caps right now. It's fucking fantastic. You notice Bitcoin Twitter, all the caps that you've have you been seeing flow through people?
[00:26:08] Unknown:
You you've really been Brian. Brian and Oh gosh.
[00:26:12] Unknown:
Taps Lockhart, man, is a whole new beast. I fucking love that guy. I'm so happy he's back on Twitter. I gotta get him on dispatch. He'll he'll be on the dispatch soon. Please.
[00:26:21] Unknown:
Yeah. You've you've missed for International Women's Day. Did you see, like, how big freak he is with that tweet? We when he was like, okay. I I've, put the wife. She's going to work. I'm back. I'm I'm at home with kids, and he's like, man, belong in kitchen. I worked so hard to get here. I'm not getting up.
[00:26:41] Unknown:
Oh, man. I agree with him. Right? He was at belong in kitchen. He was at, bit block boom 2019 with us. That's where I met him and you for some time. He's kinda shy. Woah. Woah. Woah. Sean Stack and saying caps lock card is greater than caps. I'm I'm fine with that. Caps lock card is greater than caps Odell. I'll stay humble in that regard. I love that, dude. Oh, yeah. I'll take it. But no privacy, no freedom is a is a is a sticking point for me. Rock star, do you think that Bitcoin is designed to pump forever?
[00:27:09] Unknown:
I don't care.
[00:27:10] Unknown:
You don't what the fuck? What does that mean? Do you either yes or no. Do do you think that the purchasing power will increase, indefinitely, or do you think that there's some kind of top?
[00:27:21] Unknown:
Like, nothing is indefinite. Like, infinity only exists as a infinite repetition of finite.
[00:27:30] Unknown:
Okay. So you don't think Bitcoin is designed to pump forever? There we go, man. Black and white. Yeah. Like,
[00:27:36] Unknown:
and then all that stuff. Well, to be clear, you're wrong. Beautiful colors be be between the two extremes, and I'm telling you, like, I don't care what is the It's not an extreme. It's basic logic.
[00:27:49] Unknown:
If you have a if you have a finite if you have a finite scarce asset like Bitcoin, a truly scarce asset like Bitcoin, and human productivity and ingenuity increases over time, then the purchasing power of that finite money that's that's the standard value of the world, should increase in value over time forever.
[00:28:10] Unknown:
I I'm more bullish on Cap Soudel. Like, he's designed to pump. Well, I'll just I'll just wait. Let let's see the reaction of audience, like, because you are now You see Sean? Sean saying hashtag cancel rockstar. All caps. Please do. Please do. I'll I'll do more things. I'll pull a Pedro McCormick, and I'm gonna yeah. Oh, poor me. Bitcoiners are mean.
[00:28:35] Unknown:
So So what what do you what do you think, Suhab? Do you think do you wanna get canceled, or do you think Bitcoin's gonna Yeah. I was about to say that. I don't want to risk being canceled, so
[00:28:46] Unknown:
so I would say yes. But I agree with your argument that you're making of I I definitely think that it's designed for to pump forever. No doubt about it.
[00:28:56] Unknown:
I mean, like, if you Yeah. I I love that I have I have, like, 2 different memes that I have going at the same time. I have, that Bitcoin's designed to pump forever, and then I have every asset in the world is is gonna trend to 0 in Bitcoin terms. And they both mean the same exact thing. But there's, like, a group of people that believe 1 and not the other, and it's the weirdest thing ever. Like, I trigger half of them when I say the one thing, and then I trigger the other half when I say the other thing. And to be clear to the freaks, like, we're not memeing things into reality. The memes were already real. The they're just it's an easy way to showcase what already exists. You know? That the it is it is a fact, and and the memes are just a very distilled way of communicating that fact.
[00:29:42] Unknown:
Yep. It's for the artists like us.
[00:29:48] Unknown:
So I see right now, Rockstar, that you are, you're, like, you're, like, tweeting live while we're while we're recording, which is impressive that you have have so much that that you're not you're not getting distracted. So you actually tweeted out a picture of of your 2 chargers, while while we're while we're recording. Are you you you need the power from both chargers to power your laptop? What's the issue here? What's go what's going on here? I'm telling you, man. Like, I overdid this rock star mode.
[00:30:23] Unknown:
Like, they they somehow, like, plugged in a desktop CPU into laptop.
[00:30:29] Unknown:
And I didn't read before purchasing, you know, implementation is facts like, you know, pie. So does it charges with 1 charger, but it's just too slow. Is that the issue?
[00:30:39] Unknown:
No. It won't work with 1 charger. It's like you need. And now you can imagine how this will look like if I, like, bring this laptop to the conference. I mean, I Exactly. Disappeared super and even more. It's like crazy. What I
[00:30:55] Unknown:
that's what I thought. You know, he took away my conscious I was being conscious
[00:31:00] Unknown:
that I have a massive laptop, and then I saw his laptop. I said, okay. I'm fine. What kind of laptop is that, Rockstar?
[00:31:07] Unknown:
Dude, it's it's just, like, developer laptop. It's like desktop replacement. So I know. But what's the brand? I don't wanna advertise the brand because they MSI or something?
[00:31:19] Unknown:
No, man. It's, like, custom made. It's I'm looking at the red the red flares.
[00:31:25] Unknown:
No. No. No. Like, I hate that gamer mode. I just like, gamer laptops, their most powerful help,
[00:31:32] Unknown:
like, bring down compile. Yeah. All the peripherals, the best ones are gamer stuff. The keyboards, the mice, everything.
[00:31:39] Unknown:
Yeah. But, like, this one is it's it's kinda like low key what it it's low key. Like, it's custom designed. It's just Jesse said it was Alienware. It's not Alienware. Don't offend him like that. No. K. This is I'll I'll try to find the exact picture because it's it's different. I posted someone else's because I yeah. I don't wanna take a picture of my desk itself. Oh, wait. This isn't your this is not even your fucking laptop? Man, like, you illustrate the concept through obfuscation. I mean, you want you wanna take the picture of my exact adapter?
[00:32:14] Unknown:
Well, that's great. So what'd you what'd you Google search? Did you just search did you just search, like, 2 charger laptops?
[00:32:21] Unknown:
I I searched Rockstar laptops, and that's what came up.
[00:32:27] Unknown:
I love this. BTC pin says it's the held laptop, and he's embarrassed.
[00:32:32] Unknown:
Held laptop. No. No. It's it's not, it's not a newsletter $100 laptop. And then it's not likely illegal. It's
[00:32:45] Unknown:
it's perfectly legal. I mean, the way you're talking about it, you're talking about it like it's likely illegal, so I don't know about that.
[00:32:51] Unknown:
Man, everything is illegal nowadays.
[00:32:54] Unknown:
So, I mean, we we have a freak who's asking about the Oracle earnings tomorrow. I mean, like, if you if if you're asking us, I'll speak for I'll speak for both Rockstar and Sue. I mean, if you're asking a Bitcoin or if we think that they're gonna announce a a massive ass Bitcoin purchase tomorrow. I mean, I think the answer is always yes. Right?
[00:33:11] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:33:13] Unknown:
No. I mean, if I can actually talk a lot about stocks because I made, like,
[00:33:18] Unknown:
tons of money with stocks here in US. Oh, yeah? Yeah? Okay. Let's go. Rockstar Dev trading room. Let's go trading with uncle Rockstar. You wanna give us some stock tips?
[00:33:28] Unknown:
Yeah. Go to Wall Street Bets and whatever is proposed by. No. This is not financial advice. La la la la la.
[00:33:37] Unknown:
Man. No, man. It's But the freak shouldn't trade stocks. Every stock is trending to 0 in terms of Bitcoin. I mean, you can trade it if you want. Just consider it. It's gambling, and and really, you should just I I think I think the most successful, people in the finance world over the next 5 years, over the next 10 years will be the people that just stay humble and stack.
[00:33:59] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:34:01] Unknown:
That's fine. Like, significantly. Like, we're just we're just triggering financial professionals all across the world because we're just continuing to outperform them by dollar cost averaging into this fucking magic Internet money.
[00:34:12] Unknown:
May have bit Bittstein had that great tweet of, like, all the, like, people that spent, like, 50 k a year or 100 k a year going to Ivy League school and then, you know, interning in Wall Street firms and this and that. And, like, he posted that, like, I should post it on Twitter, lift weights and ate meat, then I'm, like, having bigger returns than all of you. So fucking hilarious. It is. It's ridiculous,
[00:34:41] Unknown:
man. I mean, that's just funny, like, you know, and and and and that type of person is the type of person who talks down to other people, so that's what makes it funny. Right? Like, when you say have fun staying poor to a billionaire or to someone who has a finance MBA and thinks they're better than you because they took, like, the series 7 or whatever their fucking KYC tests are that they have to take to to get certified. They talk down to you about it. Right? So so us outperforming them is fucking hilarious. What's really frustrating is is, like, the the buddies that you know from, like, from school and shit that that are making $15 an hour or $30 an hour, and they're, like, trading, you know, like, garbage electric car company stocks from, like, China, and they think they know better than you. And you're just telling them you're like, can you just please just dollar cost average into Bitcoin so you're not resentful of me when we hit 200 k? Like, can you can you cover yourself so that that I don't have to, like, take care of your children's finances in 20 years 30 years just to be a good guy about it? Like, can can you contribute a little bit?
[00:35:51] Unknown:
But what does it get you? Are you able to convince them? I've never been able to convince anyone. Dude, I'll tell you the most
[00:35:59] Unknown:
success the the the Twitter game, especially Caps O'Dell, has been super effective on my real life, like, my my my pre Bitcoin friends. My real life friends. You guys are my real life friends. My pre Bitcoin friends because they they listen to they listen to the the tweets. They follow me on Twitter secretly, and they listen to the tweets more than they listen to me, you know, telling them, like, every day in in our group chats.
[00:36:25] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:36:26] Unknown:
Matt, here is one thing that's really important for everybody to understand, and that's it. Like, you can never wish more for people than they wish for themselves. And we we only like, most of us only learn through failures, so we should embrace failures. And, like, I'm telling you, you know, like, you know you can't persuade any like, everyone has experienced this. You're like, talk about Bitcoin to some friend of yours, and then, like, tomorrow they text you, oh, I bought bought Litecoin because it's like No. And and, like, what what can you do? The the only thing that you can do is, like, you go back and you look at the also, or, you look at yourself and you say, okay. Maybe I'll stack extra extra for that person.
No. Seriously. And, plus, you already look at the people that are in Bitcoin. Like, look at all the great audience that we have in here that wants to cancel me now. So I I, you know, talk with these people, and then they tell me, okay. I maybe need something coded. Like, how do I code it? So I answer those people instead of answering, oh, how do I get rich? I mean, I got the message today from somebody who wanted to, like, from Europe wanted to drop, €1,000, and he's like, okay. What shit coin should I buy? And I basically say, yeah. Like, I sent that, congressman that's saying that there is a Bitcoin and then there is a shitcoin. Like, buy Bitcoin.
You don't wanna become a day trader
[00:38:06] Unknown:
and, you know, like, that's it. I think the biggest issue we have is it's too simple. You know. Like, I feel like almost, like, we need to add extra steps, like, you know, don't just dollar cost average Bitcoin, like, maybe, like, pick up a hula hoop, like, dance around in a circle, like, run for a mile, and then, like, buy Bitcoin or something. Like, you gotta make it more complicated than it is because they're just, like, it's too simple. It seems like a, you know, a get rich slow scheme
[00:38:33] Unknown:
or something. There's there's one thing magazine conference in Miami. Like, that's first step.
[00:38:39] Unknown:
That would tell. Okay. So one thing yeah. Go on, Sue. Let's hear it. Yep. One thing, that I have kind of come to agree on, right, or convince myself is that not everybody will buy Bitcoin. Right? Even if the whole world had the opportunity, everybody is not gonna make the use of it. It's always that power law is never going to change. Right? The 80 20 rule will not change with Bitcoin. Right? So there will always be a minority which took the risk, which got in early, and continues to buy. And there will always be a majority which will never be convinced, and ultimately, they will be the ones who will finally be earning in Bitcoin, but they will never
[00:39:23] Unknown:
buy Bitcoin. Right? Right. But they they will they will earn they'll use Bitcoin regardless. Everyone uses money. There's no 80 20 rule on using money. Right? Yeah. The buying Bitcoin is a limited time,
[00:39:34] Unknown:
opportunity. If that's this opportunity or this window is not gonna be open forever. Right? Limited time only. Stack stats while you can.
[00:39:42] Unknown:
Exactly. But I guess stacking actually is not buying. Right? Stacking could also be earning. We're covering ourselves there, but buy Bitcoin while you can.
[00:39:50] Unknown:
Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'm saying that you while you can, but everybody is not gonna do it. And, ultimately, there'll be a time when people will be earning their salaries or, you know, giving away their time for Bitcoin, and that's what that's what they're going to realize that they are too late or, you know, people told them and they never listened. But the power law is not going to change. Right?
[00:40:11] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:40:12] Unknown:
There will always be that 80 20 mix. No. Sueb, I don't disagree, you know, and I almost and and this is one of the things I've talked about a lot on the podcast recently is that, I I almost you know, in the beginning days, it almost felt like we needed to it it it it behooved us to convince powerful people, to get on board with Bitcoin, so that they would not only pump our bags, but, like, protect the whole system. Right? And, create create a network effect type of moat to protect us from the inevitable attacks, by the state and large corporations and stuff like that.
Now I almost feel like everyone's gonna capitulate eventually. It's almost like it's it's I'm not when I do my education and outreach to newcomers, I'm not doing it for the security of the network. I'm doing it or, like, the long standing of the network. I'm doing it because I want those individuals to not get as you know, I want those those those individuals to to have a chance at this opportunity. So, I mean, in in terms of this 80 20 thing, it's like, look. I'm fine with, you know, understanding that the majority of people won't buy Bitcoin now, and they don't they won't realize it until it's significantly higher. But at the same time, like, I want my friends and family to not be that group. Like, I want my friends and family to get in ASAP, and that's why caps Odell just got like, the urgency got so high. I mean, people were asking me, like, in December, like, Matt, are you losing it? Well, in hindsight, it was $18,000 in December.
Obviously, I was fucking going crazy because, look, here we are. It's $54,000. Imagine if you could have bought it at $18,000. Me telling people to buy Bitcoin now does nothing for them. If if they could have bought it at $18,000 3 months ago, and I'm not saying you're late because you're not. I think we could be at 200 k in a couple months, but the urgency is real. Right? The urgency is real when all of a sudden you're playing with billionaire FOMO.
[00:42:20] Unknown:
Exactly. That's why I'm saying the opportunity to buy Bitcoin is very limited. It's it's not gonna be open forever, And people are going to lose that opportunity very quickly. Right? If imagine if Bitcoin goes to a 100 k, how many people can buy Bitcoin really? Very few people will be able to actually get Bitcoin. Right? Well, they can stack sats. Everyone can stack sats. Yeah. But Right? Right? I'll tell you one more thing. You know, I one person gets in touch with me with the moon, like, December November. Bitcoin is pumping. Right? So he says that, oh, okay. I want I'm thinking of buying Bitcoin. Right? The price is at 16 k at that time.
So I said, yeah. Go ahead. Go to Cash App and start buying there. Then he doesn't buy. Then the price runs up to 25. I say, oh, man. I lost the opportunity to buy. I said, you can buy now. Then he's saying, oh, it's a speculation. I said, yeah. It's a speculation. Don't don't buy if you have to and buy if you have to. But I I'm not gonna convince you to buy. Buy if you want to buy. But if you don't wanna buy, you know, fine. Stay stay where you are.
[00:43:23] Unknown:
This is what people don't realize. No. Realize is, like, is is is if you're in a bull market, obviously, in hindsight, a lump sum purchase, with all your money in your bank account, is a is a better deal. But the thing is people don't have conviction in the beginning, and this is why stacking stats is so powerful because it's way easier to convince someone to say, you know, Bitcoin's designed to pump forever. It's impossible to be late for an asset that's designed to pump forever. Just put $50 in a week. Put in $50 a week. You're not going to the bar because your government won't fucking let you go to the bar, and you're just taking that willy nilly. So take that $50 and put it into Bitcoin, and worst comes to worst, you'll lose it.
Yeah. Matt. Matt. Yes. Rock star.
[00:44:06] Unknown:
You're too hard on yourself, man. Like, I I know how much you want to, like, get people to front run billionaires, but, like, you can't save everyone.
[00:44:18] Unknown:
No. I can save my people. I wanna save my people, rock star.
[00:44:22] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. All of us all of us do, But I don't know how many we can save.
[00:44:29] Unknown:
Yes. Because, like, now I I feel the need, like, I need to talk, Matt, because it's it's stay humble, man. They just go back to yourself. Like, you you just can't explain it to all the people. Plus, it's easy for us, man. I mean, we we've had conviction for, what, like, 10 years it will be. It's it it's really easy, but you're underestimating, like, the estimating, like, the the bleep of fate it takes because, what you're saying, stacking sets, that's a great gateway into it, because when people, like, they start looking, get the price, and this and that. But you you also forget it's not like conviction is not easy. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a podcast with you, Marty, and American Huddl, that legendary podcast, and you have Marty going, like, what if we're advertising this Bitcoin to people and, like, it it goes to 0.
So even somebody like Marty has doubts. And then I DM ed Marty and said, Marty, don't worry. Uncle Rockstar has you covered. Bernardo. And he was like, okay, man. Let's go. And what was the price during that episode? It was, like, 9 k or something. It was, yeah, it was, like, 5 k or something, like, 6 k. It was yeah. The Imagine if you could buy a 9 k again.
[00:45:55] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm going.
[00:45:57] Unknown:
Do you remember, like, there was this, like, launch that I think it was American Huddl, MBK, me, and Huddl. Obviously, Huddl did, like, Bitcoin is never going under 10 k ever again. Prepare the lock like, 25 times or something. Yeah. Yeah. But but this time, like, I was in it because I am this whole Green Boy thing that you're projecting, it's not like I'm picking it up as and I was at 8 k. So, I think American HODL, like no. I did 6 k. I was like, we'll never see Bitcoin at 6 k. MBK did, no. American Huddl did we'll never see Bitcoin under 7 k. MBK was 8, and somebody was 9, and then it was, like, final boss at 10, and that was, like, the last time. So because it it takes a village, man, and, I just think you're you're doing great. Just, like, don't be so hard on yourself.
I stack harder. Do what you can do. Like, don't worry about stuff you can do.
[00:47:08] Unknown:
So Yeah. Yeah. One thing yeah. I agree with what, Roxanne was saying. That conviction takes time to build. Right? It's not something which we which can come automatically to everyone. You know, I I can talk for myself. Right? I can say that, the conviction that I have now is definitely, more than the conviction that I had 2 years back. Right? Which means that I could got I could get more Bitcoin than I have right now, and that's the same for everyone. Everybody has, less Bitcoin when than what they can they could have had. Right? So and I don't have any Bitcoin. You guys have Bitcoin? Yeah.
[00:47:45] Unknown:
Yeah. I actually I sold all my Bitcoin, in in March in March panic sell at, like, 35100, and I've just been doing the podcast and pretending I didn't this whole time. There is this guy on the Internet, like, American Huddle. He he says he has, like, 615.
[00:47:58] Unknown:
He's, like, great. Yeah. 615 is the number. He acts like point 15.
[00:48:04] Unknown:
Yeah. He's doing alright. So, what was I gonna say? That that conviction thing is very interesting. Right? Because you get Yeah. I I I see a ton of times from, you know, like, my pre Bitcoin friends. They tell me that they're too late and that I got I got in early. Right? Yeah. And and at the same time, you know, I I'm still stacking. I stack every day. And, like, they think I'm early and they're late, but meanwhile, I'm stacking more than they're stacking right now. Exactly. You know, which is like a crazy concept. And and one thing I've noticed that does work actually pretty well, at least with your close friends, because you you know, there's there's OPSEC issues. You should never tell anyone how much Bitcoin you own, but I think there is some worth to telling your close friends how much you're stacking on a daily basis because that does kind of show them your level it it it puts a number on the on your level of conviction.
[00:49:01] Unknown:
No. No, man. No. You like, MBK had the best stands where people ask, should I buy Bitcoin? You say no. Maybe that's not for you. No. Fuck that shit, dude. I'm gonna I'm gonna be taking care of these people otherwise. No, man. Like, you can't this is the thing. Also, you have insider information. Get any of your friends. No. Get What insider information do I have? Well, you have connection with me, and you know how awesome I am, and then you were like, okay. This guy is in Bitcoin ecosystem.
[00:49:30] Unknown:
Of course. I literally I literally broadcast all my alpha publicly for free for the last, like Yes. 8 years I've been doing that. Okay? And it's still not priced in. That's that's how ridiculous this fucking thing is. There's bad takes on the daily. They're talking about NFTs on CNBC.
[00:49:48] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:49:48] Unknown:
People are talking about, like, which shitcoin is gonna do this or which shitcoin is gonna do that or should I buy Tesla? Should I buy Chinese Tesla? Should I buy, you know, European Tesla? And and and they're trying like, trying to buy all these shitcoin stocks. And meanwhile, this whole time, I'm just just publicly broadcasting all my alpha, and they just don't even realize. Like, they they still have not realized.
[00:50:12] Unknown:
Yeah, man. That's that's how it is. But did did you know that Kanye and Kim are divorcing?
[00:50:19] Unknown:
So is this relevant?
[00:50:21] Unknown:
Well, no. But that's what I'm telling you, man. It's just you are overwhelmed,
[00:50:27] Unknown:
man. People talk about that. They care about that, but they're they're they're not paying attention to the greatest financial opportunity of their lifetime. Is that what you're saying? Yes. That's exactly and and and, like, you need everyone
[00:50:39] Unknown:
needs to understand that I'm telling you, like, it's insider. You're, like, insider information, man. Like, it takes time to read about, you know, the history of Cypherpunks and understand that, you know, 30 years ago, some people were already seeing what information will do to people, how it will drive them mad, how you will have ability to because information will be generated like 100 x, you you will be able to point information in direction of certain group and make them go, like, insane, which is what's happening daily with all these people that you're, like, hooked up to.
[00:51:14] Unknown:
Twitter feeds, Facebook feeds. There's just so much noise. Right? They're, like, gonna say so I actually, this was something I already had, like, on my scratch pad over here, about things I wanted to talk about. It's just, like, in these well, I was gonna say I mean, you're right. Like, it's just a society thing. Like, I have I have on on Twitter right now, I have this guy, Jared Dillian, at daily dirt nap. He was on Tales from the Crypt. I like him. He bought Bitcoin, then he sold Bitcoin, and he did his you know, the worst thing you could ever do, right, which is send out the tweet, like, I sold all my Bitcoin. But you're just, like first of all, you're just you're just asking to get just trolled for the rest of your life until you publicly buy back in. And then second of all, like, it's obviously gonna pump in your face when you do that. And he tweeted out just now, I hope everyone realizes this was a bear market rally. And he's not even talking about Bitcoin. He's talking about, like, tech stocks and shit.
But he's just on such a different level that, like, why does that even tweet even fucking matter? Like, why why is why is that a thought that even fucking matter? First of all, there's, like, there's no such thing as a bear market in a hyperinflationary environment when they're just gonna print money and and make sure bear markets don't exist. So he's, like, completely out of place on that. I mean, stocks are designed to pump forever as well. Oh, and stocks aren't designed to pump forever, but they will pump until the hyperinflationary event ends.
But, like, he's just on completely cloud 9. Like, he's not even concentrating on what matters. No. Jared, someone in the comments asked if he's a comedian. He's not a comedian. He talks about important things. Yeah. But that's Daily dirt and app.
[00:52:47] Unknown:
That's the the luxury that fiat economy gives you because you can be so much wrong and still be so well off. And, yep, it's what what I'm telling you, man, like, you you're too hard on yourself. Like, I now realize It's just, again, repeating the main, like, lesson, which is, like, you can only wish for people as much as they wish for for themselves. And, anybody watching this and we're not persuasive, come to Miami Bitcoin conference, and only then you can buy Bitcoin. Like, that's one extra hoop, so we'll we'll invent more.
[00:53:26] Unknown:
So, I mean, I wanted to talk about noise, and then we'll talk about the conference. So during during the bull market, there's so much noise. There's so much noise. The signal gets hidden. All the charlatans come out. Everyone on Twitter is just going for, like, the lowest hanging engagement fruit. It is super exhausting, and I just want the freaks to realize, like, just have fun with it. Like, just don't let it get to you too much. Stay focused, you know, that sats matter more than engagement, and don't, I don't know. Just don't don't don't, like, sell out your soul from some little, you know, little engagement gains, just getting the the likes or or, like you know, the NFTs are, like, a perfect example. It's like anyone who just doesn't care about their audience can just squeeze them dry for as as much money as possible.
And and and there's a there's a big push in bull markets to be like, we're all in this together. Why are you attacking us? We're all doing well. Like, just jog off. Just be like, why are you so pessimist? Why why aren't you just chill or whatever? And it's just exhausting. Yeah.
[00:54:42] Unknown:
I gotta work. My productivity has taken a dip, significant dip as the market started bump pumping. I cannot I find it so hard to focus with all this noise.
[00:54:56] Unknown:
I I I find it hard to focus on this stream because I'm not in the center, but price is in the center. Like, what is this, man? Come on. I'm like, there we go. Okay. Percent. Take them. There you have.
[00:55:13] Unknown:
No. No one wants to see you up there. There we go.
[00:55:16] Unknown:
See? And and he's like, okay. Why is everybody caring so much about price?
[00:55:21] Unknown:
No. No. No. No. No. Wait. First of all, price I'm not saying that price doesn't matter. Like, price is the most important metric. No. It is it is literally the most important metric. It it is the free market telling us the current valuation of Bitcoin. No. It it is it is it is the the the the number one most important metric we have in Bitcoin. No. But I I just don't think that people I think people need to be aware that in bull markets, the charlatans come out, the scammers come out. You know, the the growth marketers and the growth hackers and shit come out. Yeah. And it's just exhausting, and and a lot of people feel like they need to keep up with the Joneses, you know, in that respect. And so, like, a lot of people who you might otherwise have respect for, fall down that hole, and it's important, you know, not not to be one of those people, I think, long term. I think I think this is something that that you should just, you know, be aware of.
[00:56:20] Unknown:
Why why are you taking this so hard, man, that you, like, farmed the land and grew the crops, and then now somebody else is reaping the harvest? There will always be, like, these people. So you you must not become discouraged. Like, they're just it's a professional like any other, you know, like, signaling expertise, and since it's the way that things are, like, the important thing is just to not let that corrupt you. Like, it's a failure. It's but it's not even a failure, man. It's just how things are, and there is a space for all of us. Like, then those people don't get exactly. They they don't get to to enjoy the things that you're enjoying, and, yeah, they can they can have their, like, Twitter likes and a little bit of fiat cash, but they don't get the enjoyment of hard work that you were doing, and
[00:57:17] Unknown:
you know how things are. So You know, they won't they won't let me fucking Twitter won't let me, I can't report impersonators unless I upload KYC and blue check myself? Yes.
[00:57:30] Unknown:
Really?
[00:57:31] Unknown:
I responded I I, like, I've I've just been getting increasingly angry with my support replies to Twitter, and the the the most recent one was I was, like, honestly, the blue checks can go fuck themselves. I don't care if my audience gets scammed. That's, like, my most recent email to them.
[00:57:48] Unknown:
Yeah. So let's let's tweet to our man, Jack Dorsey, you and me, because he follows you and me. I don't know if he follows us, Suhab. And we're like, come on. I'm a pleb.
[00:57:58] Unknown:
We're no plebs here, Suhab, except for Rockstar.
[00:58:02] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:58:04] Unknown:
That that's the thing. Now you will take my pleb batch, everyone, but, it's like No. You're a true pleb.
[00:58:10] Unknown:
Yeah. You can tell because you're bald.
[00:58:14] Unknown:
Well, man, I gave it all for Bitcoin including.
[00:58:21] Unknown:
Okay. So let's talk about Bitcoin Miami. You guys are both coming to Bitcoin Miami in June, June 4th through 5th?
[00:58:27] Unknown:
Probably.
[00:58:28] Unknown:
Probably. Yeah. So I've been working with them, and I do have a they rug pulled my my my my promo code. I don't make any money from the promo code. I was getting 21% off to anyone who used it. Now they've moved it down to 15%. It's still the best, promo code. So it's it's all caps, humble. So if you are gonna come use that code, that's b dot t c slash conference. They have, like, a great fucking domain name. But besides that, the the big thing that I'm I'm championing over there, and I just got the green light from the c CEO, David Bailey, is we're gonna have a whole open source workshop section, and it's gonna be devoted all to open source software.
No charge, but, like, they have to be on, like, the MAT approved list. And I would really love if if RTL and BTC pay server was there. So I figured I might as well have you both on the podcast and ask you on the spot live, if if your projects would be interested in joining us.
[00:59:37] Unknown:
Maybe.
[00:59:40] Unknown:
What the fuck, man?
[00:59:42] Unknown:
It's like, you're lucky from me.
[00:59:46] Unknown:
Well, we're gonna have both RTL and BTC pay server down there. Yeah.
[00:59:50] Unknown:
There we go. It's, like, all behind the leader, Matt.
[00:59:53] Unknown:
Yes. Of course.
[00:59:55] Unknown:
And and, like, the price is gonna be like it's gonna be like $200,000 Bitcoin. We're gonna have, like, 10,000 Bitcoiners. We're gonna have, like, congressmen, billionaires, plebs, $200,000 Bitcoin, open source workshops, build your own node, accept payments, fucking do coin joins in person. Like, it's gonna be a fucking blast.
[01:00:18] Unknown:
You you wanna make a bet?
[01:00:21] Unknown:
What? Like, it won't be 200 k by Yeah. I make that bet every day when I stack. I'll make that bet.
[01:00:28] Unknown:
What do you what do you what do you you wanna say under man, like, man, you're you're so awesome that you're, Bitcoin will be, like, 130, and you'll come to Miami, like, oh, no. It's not.
[01:00:41] Unknown:
Well, look look, Rockstar. I think if it's, like, if the price is, like, a humble 140, like, I think people would be fine with that too. Like, we'd still have a good party.
[01:00:50] Unknown:
No. They would come to you and be, like, man, why is it not 200 k you promised me, but this other awesome Bitcoiner, Dan Held, he said it it won't. He's right. You're wrong.
[01:01:02] Unknown:
Dan Held's saying that there's gonna be a super cycle and that there'll you know, this is the last cycle.
[01:01:07] Unknown:
Well, who has more followers, you or Dan?
[01:01:11] Unknown:
Followers don't I I I'm not in for the followers. I'm in for the stats.
[01:01:15] Unknown:
Because that that will be another my my point is because Dan has all the bots and everything else, because, of Dell. It's just yeah. Yeah. It's illustration how unfair the world is, but that's exactly where you and me, Matt, operate. We operate in that, like, environment where you fix the wrong and, you know, you you make a better system. And you just need to stay focused inward rather than outwards because and stay humble. So I'll I'll just keep talking on this podcast because all I'm hearing from you, you've been too hard on yourself, man. Like, you're you're doing phenomenal, and you're like, no. It's not 200 k. It's only 1:30. We need to support you more, Matt. Freaks, please support Matt more. He needs it. He needs our support.
[01:02:08] Unknown:
You know, I I I you know, some days I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I I haven't done enough, and then other days I wake up in the morning and I just I or I wake up in the morning, I'm just like, I'm a failure. And then other days I wake up in the morning and I just have to remind myself to stay humble. Like, I literally like, that's a it's a meme now, but I I, like, look in the mirror in the morning. I'm, like, I stay humble, man. I actually say it out loud like a fucking crazy person. I don't know if that's healthy or not. It's probably I think it's probably a little bit healthier than not healthy in terms of a bull market.
[01:02:43] Unknown:
Get the information out out of you, especially when you're, like, conduit to Bitcoin because we're all kinda serving Bitcoin. So
[01:02:52] Unknown:
sometimes it's just too much information, and you need to get out. But, anyway, I want both of you in in Miami for for fucking Bitcoin 2021. It's gonna be fucking ridiculous. Even if we're at, like, a humble 110, I think it'll be ridiculous, but I really do not think we're are are we gonna bet on it, by the way? Are you gonna go bearish Bitcoin? What what are you? You're gonna say under 200 k by conference day?
[01:03:16] Unknown:
With you? Yes. Yes. But I What are we betting? Sorry.
[01:03:21] Unknown:
Do you wanna bet Bitcoin or Fiat? The
[01:03:25] Unknown:
drinks. The yeah.
[01:03:28] Unknown:
The the the trick is if I bet Bitcoin, it's in my favor because if the price is lower, then then the amount I give you is less. Yeah. So that was good. I'll bet you drinks, but you have to show up. You have to buy me drinks even if you don't show up, I guess.
[01:03:40] Unknown:
Well, that's why I will buy this great thing, Bitcoin, and if I don't show up, I just put you on a webcam and then I send Bitcoin like you'll be a Paula feet. Or
[01:03:52] Unknown:
So what's your bet? What's your bet? You're saying you're saying under a 150 or under 200 k? Well, you said 200 k, man. Like, I don't I don't I know. Well, yeah, I'm putting my balls on the table. If you just wanna take if you wanna take my top line offer and use that as the bet, then by all means, we can do that, but that's that's that's on you. Man, I I could
[01:04:10] Unknown:
like, why do you want Bitcoin to be under 100 k? Like, I can do 100 k, but
[01:04:16] Unknown:
it's not gonna be under you think it's gonna be under a 100 k in June? There's no way it's under a 100 k in June. And then there we go. Now you're like, okay. Maybe I Like, if we wanna play some inside baseball with the freaks that are listening right now because they're my people, you know, 200 k is a little bit ambitious probably, you know, but you gotta go top line. You gotta go top line on these kind of things. And so I so I did go top line. But I I'm I'm happy I'm happy to bet 200 k conference day. The the other person the other person has to buy 5 drinks.
[01:04:52] Unknown:
Sure. Make sense. 10.
[01:04:56] Unknown:
10 drinks. K. But what kind of drinks are we like, is there a you know, am I. Can a bottle be a drink? Like, what is like, how do we
[01:05:06] Unknown:
Man, you you and me, like, we we don't go into details. We we know, like, both is good. So
[01:05:14] Unknown:
so 10 drinks. 10 drinks, 200 k. Boom.
[01:05:18] Unknown:
There we go. Everyone is a witness. So, who yeah. This is perfect.
[01:05:25] Unknown:
Ten bottles of mezcal, young work, in the comments. Listen. It's too bad to me. I accept it. The funny like like like, Rockstar has the better end of this deal here because if it's over 200 k, you can easily afford the 10 drinks.
[01:05:40] Unknown:
Man, I I don't have Bitcoin. Like, what's what's up with you? Yeah. Like, I'm a developer. I'm working on strike. I'm, like, taking my, you know, salary in dollars, then, you know, I buy McDonald's because I don't earn much, but I'm happy,
[01:06:01] Unknown:
and that's it. This is my favorite part about club culture is we have Chips Ahoy in the Twitch comments right now, and he's saying that 200 k is bearish as fuck. It's like, it doesn't matter what you say on Twitter. There's always, like, 3 or 4 guys who respond that are like, you fucking bear. You, like, piece of shit. You're, like, you're, like, we're gonna have sad send parody within a year, and they respond, you fucking bear. Are are you sure you won't be at that conference? Because now it's definitely cancel Rockstar at the conference. Yeah. We can have a full you know, I'm telling you, I'm helping them put it together. We can have a full cancel Rockstar side event. You know, maybe we can do a dunk tank.
What what if if what about this Rockstar? If the price is over 200 k for the conference, would you be willing to to sit in a dunk tank, in the in the conference in the outside area of the conference and and get dunked by random freaks? I guess we could have it, like, lightning enabled just to keep it on on on brand. Well,
[01:06:59] Unknown:
if they can set me up, with this video stream and stuff, no. Did all all, that's the thing on conferences. Like, I likely won't be speaking at any conference. Like, all rock star events are after midnight. So, whatever you can organize with Bitcoin conference is, like, after midnight with rock star team. Because in Berlin, we we had this, like, running around the block. And there was Gigi. Gigi was also running with me, and he was like, okay. Now I hate big big blocks even more because it's such a it's, like, such a big block to run around, and, stuff like that. I mean, we were wasted, completely. So event like that, yes, definitely.
[01:07:47] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:07:50] Unknown:
Oh, wow. That guy the daily dirt nap just blocked me. We were mutual followers. He blocked me for saying nah. And he didn't even he didn't even hear the harsh shit I said on the podcast. He probably wasn't listening to live stream. He had no idea what's going on. He just didn't like my lowercase nah. Like, see, that's what I'm talking about. Those people can have fun staying poor. I'm fine with that. But, it's the other people. It's the it's it's the people that I I I don't know. Just I can't believe it just blocked me over that. That's fucking crazy. I gotta stop paying attention to Twitter. So let's let's so we have you we have you lined up for an after dark dunk tank. Is that what I hear?
[01:08:27] Unknown:
No. No. Now I'm I'm no. I'm now I'm insulted because me, fellow Bitcoin, are here, like, on your podcast pumping the audience, being like, okay. This is a great inside story with their Gigi. And you're, like, overwhelmed with information, caring if some, like, random guy blocked. Well, the only reason I'm looking at Twitter is because you're fucking tweeting. So Well, I'm a rock star, man. Okay. Like, let let's do like, we're doing a deal already. Like, you and me, we have, the, like, trip setup where I you will help me become a dream boy and change the future, and I'll I'll show you how to be a rock star. I can't believe you blocked me. That was just okay. Whatever. It doesn't matter.
[01:09:09] Unknown:
We we can't we can't focus on the Bitcoin deniers. So I I'm excited for both of you to be in Miami. I'm looking forward to it. It'll be good. I'm excited to see all the freaks down there. It'll be a good party. Bitblock Boom already got sold out in August, which is crazy. I told people, but no Good to see. You know what happened? It was all the people that missed. All the people that were there with me in 2020 all bought right away, and then the people who who were too scared to come because of the pandemic, they all FOMO bought. So so it just resulted in the whole conference just getting sold out super fucking quickly, because that that that was, like and that's that was an event that'll never be replicated because we had a fucking 200 person conference in the middle of a pandemic.
And I I mean, I hope it can never be replicated. Like, I I prefer if we don't have a whole worldwide lockdown where we have to test, who will who will come to the Bitcoin conference. So I I I think as far as I'm concerned, and and John Valles and Michael Sailor won't be happy about it, but I I think that was really the 100 k party. I think that'll never be replaced as a 100 k party. But that's just between me and and all the guys that were down there at Bitbuckle, and the ladies. We had a lot of ladies for a Bitcoin event. We had, like, a massive 7 or 8% ladies,
[01:10:34] Unknown:
so that was good that was good to see. He's leaving us out. Did did you go, Suheb? I did not. No. Is it down with Matt O'Dell? Never replicated. No. No. I'm I'm trying to yeah.
[01:10:47] Unknown:
To be clear to the freaks listening, I'm dunking on both of my guests right now. Yes. Yeah. Yes. This this show is about having my friends on so I can dunk on you guys. Like, I don't have, like, strangers on the show. Yes. That that's the whole point. Like, what why are we here? Like, we're just having a fun time. It's a Bitcoin Tuesday with the freaks. We're just we're all we're all getting blocked by random Twitter accounts together. Like, this is what it's about. Podcast app on Graphene, antennapod in F droid is great. John Devine asked in the comments.
So I wanted to pivot a little bit here, Rockstar. You're big in you you you you've been mainly focused on on 2 different projects. 1 is lnstryke, and 1 is btc pay server. Both are have a heavy lightning focus. Ellen Strike is a well, I guess before we even start before we even start this, how would you explain lightning rock star?
[01:11:55] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I would somehow play with the concept of settlement, like instant physical settlement, physical play, emphasize what's actually happening is that party and counterparty, they're, like, literally settling at that moment, which you don't even have on Bitcoin, you know, on chain.
[01:12:19] Unknown:
You're, like, working on this ship for, like, 6 hours a day, and you don't even have a good concise description of it. Man. Because I code. I don't go on. Okay. Suheb Suheb, what is lightning for the freaks that don't know what lightning is?
[01:12:32] Unknown:
Lightning may not. Yeah. The simplest form is a think of it as a bar tab system, right, which allows you to make, payments, quickly, and then settle,
[01:12:45] Unknown:
you know,
[01:12:46] Unknown:
all of them together, in form of a channel open or channel channel close. Right? So it's think of it as a bar tab for making fast payments.
[01:12:56] Unknown:
A bar tab like real money instead of shitty money. Yep. That's yeah. I I that that's pretty good. I mean, I it's it's it's a way for you to sell send smaller, lower cost, higher speed payments, than if you were using just a regular Bitcoin on chain.
[01:13:19] Unknown:
Yep.
[01:13:21] Unknown:
That was a horrible description too. I mean, we both beat rock star as as our description.
[01:13:26] Unknown:
I have excuse. Angeles, Suheb, you're a winner. You win this one. Light lightning lightning
[01:13:34] Unknown:
is a way to send Bitcoin faster and cheaper than you would otherwise, and it has certain trust trade offs that are acceptable because we just try and minimize them as much as possible, and you have the fee and time savings. How's that? That's pretty good.
[01:13:52] Unknown:
Yeah. No. It's kinda fall That's okay. That's not club friendly, though. That's not club friendly?
[01:13:59] Unknown:
Club club friendly. Club friendly. Friendly bar tab. If you're a new pleb and you don't know what Lightning is, that'll probably be the only way to use Bitcoin. Yeah. And you won't even realize. Right? Is that that's really the
[01:14:14] Unknown:
Well That's exactly what it is. Every wallet is going to be lightning wallet.
[01:14:18] Unknown:
Yeah. That's that's where I come in with my view of the future when I say that, like, lightning will mostly be, like, enterprise level, like, hosted. And and you I don't know how much we agree on this, Matt, that, like, majority of of lightning nodes will be exchanges like Okcoin and Big entities.
[01:14:41] Unknown:
Well, I kind of agree with this, but I think it's bearish and that needs to be fought. And I do you just think it's inevitable and fine? Is that is that where we stand here? I am I'm thinking
[01:14:51] Unknown:
that it definitely needs to be fought the same way the privacy is fought for. So maybe you and me can create some kind of, cypherpunk, association
[01:15:01] Unknown:
that but we already have Allen Bay that they're doing good job it's like Oh, my god. I mean, you they're they're like the CIA or something. Like, all of their fucking servers are in Langley.
[01:15:10] Unknown:
Oh. Or they're in Virginia. So don't use l m Big. Just
[01:15:15] Unknown:
So, I mean, I have 2 I have 2 sovereign routing nodes. Right? 1 is controlled by one one is a public node and one is is is a node that isn't attributed to me, and they both are Tor only routing nodes. Right? And they're always gonna be at a disadvantage to ClearNet's highly connected, you know, enterprise nodes. Right? Yep. This is But they exist. They exist. And as long as we have those routing nodes, as long as we have Tor only routing nodes, a sovereign user can always connect their node to one of those nodes, and they'll have a hop that is onion only, that's Tor only before they go into enterprise network.
[01:16:02] Unknown:
For for me, this is exactly this is the next battle battlefield on which, yeah, we will need to to battle and It's gonna be bad. Yeah. No. But, Roxas, do you mean,
[01:16:15] Unknown:
like, routing nodes, will be,
[01:16:19] Unknown:
institutional driven? Is that what you meant? It'll be Yeah. The routing infrastructure will be operated by institutions not Yes. Well, it depends what your measurement is. Right? If you're talking if you're talking about sheer amount of Bitcoin capacity, it's obviously gonna be the KYC ed enterprise. So so so so this was what I wanted to unpack. Right? Because it's really cool because Rockstar isn't evolved his his the two main projects he has is he has a highly regulated financial services company, which is LN Strike, and then he has BTC Payserver. And BTC Payserver is an open source project, where they're not holding any funds custodial or anything.
So so it's it's not regulated. It's it's code. It's code that anyone can run. And that is, like, our our our our best defense, and that's what RTL is too, which which Suheb works on. Ride the lightning is this idea that that if you have open source code, like, anyone could be running these routing nodes. Yep. And and and what what you see is a perfect example, I would say, is between BTCPay and BitPay is if you're a merchant and you're and you're processing payments and you're running BTCPay server, you could do whatever the hell you want. If you're running BitPay, which is centralized and custodial, like, you have to do KYC on your customers when they pay you because they got compelled and forced because they're centralized, project. Right?
[01:17:50] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. But my my take on routing's future is that, it will be, to a large extent, institutional or or people who will be running, routing infrastructure in a professional manner. Even if you're not big a big institution, you because there is a a level of, maintenance and operational excellence required to be able to be an effective routing node operator. So we can have all sorts of solutions in place which allow you to manage your node. But to be able to run it at scale, continue to maintain it requires work. It's not a, trivial, matter. Right? Requires, uptime. It requires, looking at your channel balances.
You know, it requires funding. Right? So all of that, effort which is required will result in, you know, at least some level of, professionalism, being built into it. And, institutions will definitely grab a big chunk of it, and then people, you know, at the retail level would have to have some sort of a professional, you know, mini data center type setup to be able to run good routing notes
[01:19:01] Unknown:
with all the tools that we have. There's 2 things here, and it's important, I think, that they're they're delineated, is is you have a routing node and you have an end user. For an end user to operate in a relatively self sovereign way, I mean, they can just download something like Phoenix Wallet on their phone or ideally Yeah. You know, they're they're iterating. Right? But, like, a a better setup like, they're trying to reduce the trust that is that is in them as a centralized entity, there, but you can use it in a relatively self sovereign way by just downloading Phoenix Wallet. Right? On the routing node side, this is someone who's running a 247 node. And if they're a sovereign user, they're running it only through Tor. So all of a sudden, you I don't even know if I don't think it it it definitely takes some kind of education, and we we fortunately have a bunch of plebs that have been focused on it. I mean, I've learned a shit ton about running a routing note mostly from losing money, and just kind of dove in. And I do appreciate yourself for a ton, Suhab, because I would have lost way more money, if it wasn't for ride the lightning.
But the main the main hurdle that the sovereign routing nodes have is not is is is not the education hurdle. It's it's the hurdle is relying on Tor. Like, Tor reliability is fucking shit. Like, we had we had weeks where we were getting attacked on tour, and there was DDoS issues, and I just had, like, half my channels were offline. Bitrefill doesn't have to deal with that. Strike doesn't have to deal with that. They have they have, like, super t one connections and shit that they're connected to, like, all the different routing centers around the world, and they're, like, all fucking super connected because they don't care that they're doxing their location. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
That's the hurdle. That's the
[01:20:57] Unknown:
the That's the issue. This is where you, Matt, can become more technical technical in a sense. Like, you can start bringing up ClearNet servers and then
[01:21:06] Unknown:
SSH connection through them, so you're not still not doxing the location. No. The problem is in our k like, this is what people don't realize, that KYC isn't a Bitcoin only thing. Like, it's really hard to get a well connected cloud server that isn't KYC. Yep. So we we need we need that. Yeah. Exactly. We need to find like, it's not just it's not just not doxing your IP. Like, to not dox your IP, but have a well connected thing, even if you go through even if you tunnel to a server, you're doxing yourself to that central company. Right?
[01:21:39] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. So so when we are going to Miami, you and me, Matt, need to rent a place and dump some servers there, and then we need to maintain it.
[01:21:51] Unknown:
I fucking love the idea of, like, a ready player one type of environment, where you do so, like, what I've been doing, by the way, is me and my lady, we got rid of our apartment in Brooklyn, because New York City is at a at a low point. I I still love New York City. We have way better pizza than Miami. Fuck you, Portnoy. Like, why are you doing pizza ratings in Miami? We I I I I'm I'm I'm hyper bullish on New York, but I'm not short term, and I didn't wanna fucking deal with it. So I I don't have to explain to the freaks. We fucking ended our lease. So we've just been moving around at Airbnbs. Right? And we've been staying at all these people's Airbnb houses.
And I, like, I love the idea of doing, you know, like, like, a a 15 key multisig and, like, hiding your keys in different people's houses, and they don't even know. Like, you just have, like, a steel slab with a seed in their house somewhere, and, you know, you make the threshold to a point where it's not too easy that they can get in, but also at the same time, you don't need to get into every Airbnb in the future. And that's kind of like I I I just imagine, like, you die or whatever, and then you're like, there's 32 houses. There's like I get there's like a there's a top line. What is, like, 16 keys, right, right now? So so there's 16 houses that have keys, and there's, you know, 1,000,000 of dollars or something at stake. Like, that'd be just fun. That'd just be a fun,
[01:23:23] Unknown:
don't don't talk more about it because everybody listening. I guess they will be like, okay, Matt. Come to my house, please. No. I mean, I'm not I'm not doing that. Like, that's ridiculous, but that that's a cool idea. Now you're basically like, look at the comments that are that will now come in. It will be like invitations. Like, Matt, okay. I'm in. I'm your soldier. Let's go.
[01:23:44] Unknown:
Like, if if if this story results in me getting discounted Airbnb fares, I'm all for it. I had another guy who I mentioned. I was like, I wanted to start mining in Airbnbs because they pay our electricity. And just, like, just travel with ASICs, just, like like, pull up to their house, like, pull, like, my bag and, like, 4 ASICs out of the car and just, like, plug them in. And then some guy some guy posted that on his Airbnb, description, it says, like, no Bitcoin mining allowed. Like, that would stop me. Like, like, oh, you're the the one line item that's, like, no no, no Bitcoin mining. Oh, I'm not gonna do it now.
[01:24:23] Unknown:
And the tweet is out.
[01:24:26] Unknown:
Would you see, this is what I'm talking about. You gave me shit for checking Twitter. I haven't checked Twitter since you gave me shit for it, and then you're doing the fucking my fault. Okay, Matt. I accept it. Sorry, Matt. Posting other people's you're, like, posting other people's computers on Twitter and their chargers and shit, and and you're not paying attention here. So so so to get back not paying attention to you talking about the Airbnb experience. Okay. Okay. Okay, bro. So we got we got a little bit sidetracked here. My my question to you is, what is it like working in those 2 different environments where you have this highly regulated company that's fucking killing it. Like, let's be honest. Like, strike is fucking killing it. You guys are bringing a ton of money and investment. You guys are darlings. They're they're this is one of the hottest companies, in all of tech. Like, Jack, I Jack was 30 under 30.
Right? Yeah. Am I am I correct on that? Jack was 30 under 30. Our boy Jack was 30 under fucking 30. All eyes on you guys, Super regulated spear. And then you have BTC pay server, which is, like because it's open source software, it's not breaking any laws, but it's, like, really breaking laws in, like, every country of the world constantly. No. Right. I know. So how what is that what is that how do you deal with that? Like, how do you how do you deal with that dichotomy? What is, like break that down for the freaks.
[01:25:51] Unknown:
I mean, it's simple, man. I just serve Bitcoin. Like, I, no. Honestly, it's it's, you presented me so so well that whatever I say, it will just, you know, ruin the presentation, but that that's kinda what what I want because I I do as a Cypher, I want to all my code to be open source so other Cypherpunks can play with it. On the other hand, I you know, open source is not well paid, and, I kinda even don't want to take money for for anything open source. And that's where I connected the fact that Jack is my Internet nephew. And he like, I was I was just about to accept this crazy offer of being, like, global CTO.
Yeah. You don't you don't know what you don't have a CTO now?
[01:26:48] Unknown:
Man Dude, congratulations.
[01:26:50] Unknown:
Man, I've been CTO for, like, the last 10 years, but everybody sees this, like, rock star developer, and they think that I'm some, like, pimple faced 20 year old, like, goofy kid. Dude, I didn't know that. I mean, I I thought you look like Vin Diesel. I saw the picture.
[01:27:06] Unknown:
I mean I mean He look he does look like that. Dude, congratulations. I didn't know you were CTO. I'm not CTO, man. Like, I I got the offer to be CTO, and then Jack
[01:27:16] Unknown:
called me and he was like, oh, man. Like, I'm starting the start up. I really need
[01:27:21] Unknown:
Oh, separately. Not not Zap. Not not Stripe's CTO.
[01:27:26] Unknown:
Yeah. I'm I'm not Stripe's CTO. I I have even better title, but I'm not gonna share it with you. What's your what's your title? No. I'm not gonna share it with you until you show more love because, honestly, Matt, like, I've been I knew you're not sending me love for some reason. I didn't know it's because you're too hard on yourself. So I need more love. You so much love. No. No. You haven't. Like, when was the last time you messaged me?
[01:27:53] Unknown:
I messaged you to come on this, like, yesterday or Tuesday. That? Before that, I don't know because our all of our messages delete after 7 days, so I never remember what we talked about last. Yeah. There will even But that's good. That's how it should be. Yes. It should be. But but but you should have We communicate every day. We communicate every day telepathically. Like, we wake up in the morning It's a lovefest. I send you I send you some love I send you some love The lovefest. With.
[01:28:24] Unknown:
See? And now now you even have this is, like, home courts. You have plebs defending you or, like, why don't I message Matt? I messaged Matt. Why don't you message me? I messaged Matt. Like, I messaged him, but he didn't respond.
[01:28:39] Unknown:
Dude, I always respond to you. So he was almost response. No. I would so first of all, just to be clear, BTC I I just want to before we continue here, I did say BTCPay is breaking BTCPay is not breaking any laws. BTCPay is is self sovereign open source software. It's not breaking any laws. Code is free speech, and, that's that. What I meant to say is by statist, it might be perceived as Likely legal. Break yeah. Likely illegal. Like, a status might call it likely illegal product. While something like strike is completely above board, you have, like, Visa investment and shit like that. Right? It's like a whole different, ballgame.
[01:29:20] Unknown:
Yes. Yes. So for me, like, I'm telling you, it's just Bitcoin tells me serve here, I serve. And, it's it's easy because, I really am blessed by the fact, like man, I'm I'm, like, super support. Any project that you're doing from technical side, like, I can, you know, handle so many things. That's why, like, both, if you look at BTC pay server, it's Nicholas. Nicholas loves me. If you look at Stripe, it's Jack. Jack loves me. Even though, yeah, Nicholas is not my nephew. I mean, maybe maybe he should publicly declare that. Because Jack said, yeah. I'm like crazy Internet uncle. So that's that's my description.
Yeah.
[01:30:10] Unknown:
So I'm curious, Suhab. Like, what do you think? What what is your opinion here? Did this is it is it Rockstar's fault that he's not messaging me? Is it my fault that I'm not messaging him? I think you guys Where does RTL stand on this? Is there an Or that you should get
[01:30:25] Unknown:
get a room and sort it out.
[01:30:30] Unknown:
Okay, Matt. When when are we renting Airbnb? I'm already
[01:30:34] Unknown:
well, I mean, I don't know if you're coming to Miami. I already rented a penthouse. So because I because I I my money is where my muff my fucking mouth is. Right? Like, I think 200 k by conference day is is a fucking reality. And I and I agree with the pledge that it might be a little bit too bearish. Who the fuck knows? I I think come to Chicago. Like, we we have Chicago is like a worse version of New York.
[01:30:59] Unknown:
No. It's not. It's like cleaner version of New York. Yeah. Worse.
[01:31:03] Unknown:
It's cleaner because there's less people, less things going on.
[01:31:07] Unknown:
No, man. Like, I'm telling you, as immigrant here, there is so much things to learn. But you don't come for Chicago. You come for the fact that you want to see, like, bit Roxanne Jack. In in Chicago and Jack set up, and we organize something. Like, you you do want to get into that closet. Right? No. You do have we we do have good Bitcoiners in Chicago. Yeah. Very strong very strong Citadel over there.
[01:31:30] Unknown:
I I do like my Chicago Bitcoiners. We all have to be allied against the Austin Bitcoiners. They're getting a little bit too powerful. So it's it's it's it's important it's important that we join forces. Yeah.
[01:31:44] Unknown:
Just let me know when you're coming in because we're gonna organize that party, plus that's when Marty was also saying he want to get together. So he can also come.
[01:31:53] Unknown:
That was my favorite. Have you been in the closet that Jack streams from? Jack Mueller streams from? Man. What do you think? The closet. It's like the most famous closet in Bitcoin.
[01:32:02] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I take care of my nephews. I mean
[01:32:08] Unknown:
It's the ultimate uncle Jim over here.
[01:32:11] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I will be actually in that closet in in, like, what, 2 days. So that that won't be public. Sorry, all the plebs. But, when Matt is there, I just don't know how I'll do setup because I then I will need to show my Vin Diesel face, and Internet will go wild. But
[01:32:31] Unknown:
I mean, you've doxed yourself a couple times.
[01:32:34] Unknown:
Well, you need to defend your privacy. Yeah. That's the thing. If anybody who knows and controls the places where I doxed myself can delete that, I would be thankful to you because we need to destroy information before information destroys. Noted.
[01:32:49] Unknown:
I I will check. I I think I have a no. I don't think I've I've and that no. I definitely not. I definitely do not host any photos of you. Yeah. I I might have retweeted a photo of you, but I didn't tweet it. Now you know. Now you will join, say, Vancouver. No. No. Because I'm I'm very conscious about that shit. People are not conscious enough about that shit. I have the before I was, like, public, half the times I got docs was because people took pictures of me while I was just drinking and enjoying Bitcoiners, and, like, I just didn't expect that it was gonna get posted. Bitcorners post way too many pictures on and I know I know I sound like a hypocrite. I fucking do a livestream Yeah. With a video, you know, once a week lately with RHR.
But, yeah. Yeah. I mean It the big big corners post too many photos. And, like, at least with that, it's like me and Marty doxing ourselves. You know? It's different than when you're at a conference and you're taking a picture of people and then you post it. Well, that's that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like, how Cypherpunks understood all this way way back because
[01:33:55] Unknown:
information, like, with the advance of computing technology, it really it were like it became immortal, and that's a problem. So whenever you're, like, taking a picture of someone, you're, like, taking the part of his identity, and now you own it. And and there is something so powerful. Sell an NFT for it. Yeah. Yeah. And and now it's like because it it's such a it's such a mess because I'm telling you, man, everything that happens happens for a reason.
[01:34:28] Unknown:
It's just think deepfakes help us here?
[01:34:31] Unknown:
They will, like, they will just
[01:34:34] Unknown:
pump It's like coin joints. Isn't aren't deepfakes are like coin joint for our face and our and our voices. Right? Like, I I think like, what? Do we think we're weaponized. I think I think in 5 years in 5 years, the shit corners will, like, will be able to do a fake RHR with me and Marty Yeah. Where we talk about, like, how this shitcoin is, like, the best shitcoin ever. Yeah. Because we have so much voice out there. Right? We've we've given them the podcasters have given them so much voice, data that they can use for these deep fake, technologies.
Yeah. That they can just they can probably create a whole fake RHR within 5 years that's just, like, promoting
[01:35:15] Unknown:
Dogecoin or something. And and yeah. But this is this is where I I like, you and me can have a separate philosophy podcast because I can tell you already where this ends. It it's exactly how it will be weaponized because you see people going mad right now with the way information is pumped. Imagine deepfakes weaponized,
[01:35:36] Unknown:
like, personal contacts weaponized. You do is what you do is when I release a show, I'll PGP sign it. Right?
[01:35:44] Unknown:
Well, you need to PGP
[01:35:47] Unknown:
sign every moment of of this. Yeah. Yeah. It's like Well, no. I'll take the m p 3. Right? And I'll sign I'll sign like, I'll hash the m p 3, and then I'll sign it. Yep. Well, it's We can do that. Like, this is And then and then and then, hopefully, there'll be, like, a nice app that automatically verifies that shit and then streams value for value. Like, if we're gonna go full Bitcoin or, you know, Bitcoin or Dreamscape, and then then it does value for value through lightning after it verifies. Right?
[01:36:19] Unknown:
It it will be crazy, man, because, like, by then, our brains will already be injected with all these mini computers that Elon Musk is working on, which I love. Like, everybody's like, oh, Bill Gates want to does do vaccine and, like, get microchip in. And Elon Musk is like, I literally want to put microchip in your head, and everybody's like, yes. Go, Elon. But that's the problem ending. However, my point is Well, yeah. If I go Information is and here is Huddl works saying it, like, already, like, isn't it almost all fake now? Yes. It is, my man. But Yeah. We're not even recording this. This is all AI generated with the blockchain. Because here is the thing.
Just imagine, we get to technology level where we do start harvesting the power of of sun directly using Dyson sphere.
[01:37:08] Unknown:
Like, the Now now it sounds like bullshit. No, man. That that Are you seeking investment in this? Is this a metallic is this a metallic butyrin, operation?
[01:37:19] Unknown:
No. No. This is, like, the fact that as our technology power grows, so does our, like, need to verify and control that system. Because, like, if you have Dyson Sphere, will do you really think there will be some committee on Earth saying, oh, you know, move that mirror a little bit less. There's a guy, like, around there. Okay. I'll move it. No. It will need to be, like, applied cryptography, like, people signing, like, every command being executed and verified, stuff like that. So and and as doc is saying in comments, like, yeah, you don't need a whole sphere. Like, you just need to build a little bit of mirrors and then you point them anywhere it's and it's death ray. So that's what's happening right now. Like, our technology is advancing so fast, and we can't catch up because
[01:38:07] Unknown:
Oh my goodness. You tweeted at Airbnb in the middle of this podcast asking them for a discount for me? Yes. Appreciate it, Jim. Because I am I'm at the level of information, and I'm telling you, like, I'm talking about Dyson stuff. Give me shit for checking Twitter, and you're just, like, live tweeting this whole fucking episode.
[01:38:25] Unknown:
No. Well, what can I do, man? I need I need to live up to the whole rock star nicknames. I'm reading comments with see, Romario Huddle is saying, what rock star? What if you just wear disguise wherever you go? I can't, man. I don't wanna become what's the name of that shit coin guy that had a mask?
[01:38:43] Unknown:
I forgot already. Who's the shit coin guy who had a mask on? Well Usually, the shit corners are public.
[01:38:51] Unknown:
No. But what's the name of the guy? But, yeah, let's not promote him. Like, I'll Mario, the way I solve this is I get drunk whole night, and then I wake up at, like, 7 or 8. So I you know? And then the evening, and then that's how I do conferences. So it's already, disguise of the night.
[01:39:14] Unknown:
I mean, so, like, are are you both are are both of you guys Android guys?
[01:39:21] Unknown:
Yes. I'm a Android guy. Yep. Sorry. It's sold out for Clubhouse.
[01:39:27] Unknown:
Wait. Wait. Yeah. So Sue had so you you haven't been on Clubhouse yet. Right? I do have a iPad, which I used to sometime get on get on Clubhouse, but my phone is So, I mean, I think Clubhouse is and and one of the the freaks mentioned it in the comments. I mean, Clubhouse kind of feels to me like their attempt to to basically do that. Right? Like, build up the deep fake AI database, of voices. And and coming from me, yeah, it sounds hypocritical. Like, they don't have to do that to me. I'm just broadcasting right now. Right? Like, we we I broadcast my voice all the time.
I'm I'm hoping for hiding within the deep fake. That is is is the plan. But, like, it kinda does feel like that's the strategy. Right? Is that all these apps are, like, trying to get microphone privileges to just harvest our voices.
[01:40:20] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:40:21] Unknown:
Yeah. Yep. And this is where you schedule a philosophy, you know, episode with me, and I tell you exactly how this plays out.
[01:40:30] Unknown:
I just think other I think other BitHorners do better with the the philosophy stuff, so I try and focus on number go up and tech stuff.
[01:40:38] Unknown:
I am because I am going to give you how number go up also
[01:40:42] Unknown:
going to that one. Because surprise even need Wait. Look at this tweet, by the way, to anyone who's watching the livestream. This is, like, fucking ridiculous. All caps. You need to give discount to our Bitcoin boy, Matt Odell Airbnb. Yeah. I I just I think it's funny that, like, the shit corners are, like, way better like, they make fun of us for the number go up stuff, but they're way better at number go up bullshit than we are. Like, we we failed to capture that audience. This is why I host a technical show that has a Bitcoin price streamed live.
Just because That's It's because that's really the key. The key is, like, people just wanna, you know, people just wanna get rich. You know? People just don't wanna have fun staying poor. But but they can't call me. Corners the shit corners tell people, like, you will get rich right away, and we tell them you have to, like, conservatively dollar cost average and you'll get rich in, like, 4 to 7 years. Yeah. You know, which is it's just not as it's not as
[01:41:46] Unknown:
it's not as as pretty of a of a selling point. Matt, you're too hard on yourself, man. I feel like I'm I'm really brought here by Bitcoin to, like, cheer you up a little bit, because, like, that's not the point. Like, in the end, money is just a meme. We we do not need to compete. We already built, like, the great system. There is that great meme. I will try to retweet it with like, it's everyone was telling to all of us, like, you don't belong here. So we we said, like, okay. We'll make our own small place. And now when Bitcoin is pumping, everyone's like, why are you excluding us? It's like, you made us, like, do this. And and that's the point, man. I mean, just turn to existing Bitcoiners and let's we have a lot of work to do. So the Bitcoin there will always be some energy wasted.
There will always be, like, Bitcoin is now leading the way, and, dude, you're like, there is all this, like, free energy that is collected by Shitcoin, number 1, Ethereum, like this and that. And, you know, but that's the point. Like, that's that's life. So we shouldn't be sorry about that. We should be proud that we are opening space for other things, and we accept it. We we do not let the injustice get to us and corrupt us, but rather we focus on stuff we need to do. So, you know, don't buy Bitcoin. That's our theme here.
Exactly. Because
[01:43:25] Unknown:
Don't just buy Bitcoin. Devote your whole life to buying Bitcoin.
[01:43:29] Unknown:
Devote your life to to to become a better person. Because what Bitcoin is doing, like, I would say, like, the best thing about Bitcoin, it makes you a better person. So it's not even price. Why does Bitcoin make you a better person? Because it connects you with with great people. And here is the thing, like, the people that made most money in Bitcoin are those who actually didn't even care about money. And, like, I speak from my own experience and I'm sure, like, I I'm expecting you to to talk about this after me is, like, how much better Bitcoin made you by connecting you with other, like, common sense people, like minded people.
And it's like there is a work to be done. And you're enjoying the fact that there is a work to be done. It's not some mundane
[01:44:21] Unknown:
company that's trying to pump pump earnings. Wait. No. So let's talk about that because we're all the same age group. Right? Like, well, first of all, to the freaks, love you all. If you haven't retweeted on Twitter, I I, like, feel horrible saying all this shit. Like, just, like, let's pump this shit up on Twitter. Let's get these numbers up. We have a 132 freaks in here right now. Feel like, feel like those numbers should be higher considering we're at 54 fucking $1,000, and we have fucking rock star Devin Sueb in here. And you're hearing rock star right now. Like, we're talking about Bitcoin with Bitcoiners, so let's pump these numbers up.
I think it's crazy. So we're all the same age group. Our peers that are non Bitcoiners are fucking hopeless right now. They're fucking scared. They're worried. They're sending out stupid tweets like Jared did. That's a bear market rally and then blocking people that respond nah in lowercase, because they're just broken people that are concerned about their future, and they have no idea what to what happens next. Like, people don't realize there are no adults in the room. Everyone is fucking winging it, and our group, our peer group, our age group is extra concerned.
They're they're they they had a false start, basically. Right? Like, we had the 2008 financial crisis, and and just everything it's just like it's just like I it's almost like they want you to pity them, and it's ridiculous. It's a it's a ridiculous thing. And then you meet Bitcoiners, and here we are trying to build the future. Right? Like, we're trying to build the future, and we have so much hope. Like, the key thing is hope. I I I'm optimistic on the future. Most of our peer group is not optimistic on the future. That is crazy to me.
[01:46:22] Unknown:
Yep. My two sides on this is Bitcoiners Bitcoiners are going to inherit the world, and the world will be better for it. Those are my 2 sets on
[01:46:37] Unknown:
this. Yeah. And now you wonder, Matt, why billionaires are joining us. They can feel the energy, man. They're not done. You know?
[01:46:48] Unknown:
So Well, I just fucking love that we have we have 60 year olds. We have fucking boomers. We have, I guess boomers are 60 year olds now. We have we have the millennials, we have the Zoomers, what's Gen x. We have all the different fucking generations. We're all across the generations. We're the hope people. Right? And then just, like, everyone else in our peer group's, like, I don't know what the fuck's going on.
[01:47:12] Unknown:
Yeah. Did you did you see that that we are all Satoshi video?
[01:47:18] Unknown:
Yeah. I was in that. Yeah. I've but
[01:47:22] Unknown:
the I mentioned, like, you know, how they're always preaching, like, the diversity, like this and that. And then you have just, like, Bitcoin or video that's, like, natural. We're, like, not even trying. So so it's like, I get why why also people hate Bitcoin because it it is that, you know, like, oh, I missed out. And you're, like, trying to tell them, no. You haven't missed out. Like, get in with money is just a meme. Like, there is so much other things you can enjoy that they're like, no. I'll I'll buy Cardano. I I get what like, why that gets people mad, but, again, like, I think we have enough work to do without all of that stuff or feeling, you know, sad for ourselves. So I retweeted exactly my best meme, please clap, so you'll see that in my feed as well. And you'll now be like, oh, rock star. How?
Finally, me versus price. There we go, Matt. We're getting somewhere here. We're staying humble in the process.
[01:48:26] Unknown:
Literally, every single guest I've had on the show followed my rule of no video except for you.
[01:48:35] Unknown:
Gotta be a rock star. And now I'm going to lead the way. Now all of your guests will come prepared like this, and we are going to show people Well, I even had Gigi. Gigi is the only one who rivals you in terms of of your OPSEC friendly video format because he wears a full green man suit. Did he give me any credit?
[01:48:56] Unknown:
What? For full green man's are you wearing a full green are you in the full green suit right now? No. But did he give me credit this week? You are. You're you're right now, you're in a full green suit. Right? Your whole body, including your face, is just in green fabric right now. No. No. There's no way for us to know. I'm assuming that's the case. That's what I'm gonna I'm gonna imagine.
[01:49:16] Unknown:
Come over to Chicago and let me no. But here here is the thing. Exactly. So Gigi didn't give me credit for asking me about my setup and me, like, saying, oh, you know, it's all BS, this and that. And now I I should be upset that my man, Gigi, especially because he also didn't put me on the top list of podcasts, and this has been going on for 2 years. But instead, I But you don't have a podcast? He has some list of, like, top podcasts and this and that. Oh, like, of specific episodes? Yes. Like, the best podcast Bitcoin, and I'm not on that list because, yeah, he obviously
[01:49:57] Unknown:
does not have your Like, that's not your strong suit. Like, your podcasts are, like, a little bit weak.
[01:50:04] Unknown:
Thank you, Matt. Thanks. Okay. I will now see all my humble, rock star. All my friend podcasters, like, supposed friends, let's see,
[01:50:17] Unknown:
who will invite me to you know doesn't have a podcast, freaks, who are asking the comments. He means, like, when he's a guest. When he's a guest, like, he wanted to be listed in in Gigi's list. Right, Rockstar? He has he has he has coding with uncle Rockstar, which everyone should subscribe to. How do we subscribe to that, Rockstar?
[01:50:35] Unknown:
Yeah. You just go on the BTC pay server YouTube
[01:50:40] Unknown:
page, and that's where they will be, or you'd follow me on Twitter. Like What's a Twitch? No. No. We're trying to pump Twitch. What's the Twitch account?
[01:50:48] Unknown:
Twitch is also Twitch, TV BTC based server.
[01:50:53] Unknown:
Oh, really? It's not like a special uncle rock star or whatever?
[01:50:57] Unknown:
No, man. I'm a team player. I'm a team player. So
[01:51:02] Unknown:
let's So am I, dude. We'll we'll get that rebroadcast. We'll make that happen. Yeah. I mean, so we have a little bit of time here. I mean, this has been a fun time so far. Or do would do you guys have anything that's on your mind right now that you wanna talk about while we're on air?
[01:51:23] Unknown:
Do you wanna talk about Ethereum?
[01:51:27] Unknown:
No. I don't wanna talk about Ethereum. So I'm so let's let's keep it lightning focused for now. I I I do wanna talk about Taproot a little bit, but but let's keep it lightning focused in the meantime. So one thing that I think is underrated about lightning is the capacity that I have in terms of fiat value has gone up, like, 800% since last year. Yep. I think people don't realize that. Like, that's crazy. Like, I have literally I have not put any more sats. I put very minimal sats additional into my node. But all of a sudden, I'm able to send, like, a $15 payment or something, and, like, I don't have to worry about routing errors or anything because Yeah. It's just so little in terms of the SaaS. Yeah. The channel capacity has increased. The channel value has become more dense.
It's crazy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It is amazing to see that. And it's and it's funny because and, you know, I'm gonna make a mass generalization right now, but I would say that the majority of lightning devs are not number go up people. The majority of lightning devs don't believe that that that number like, look. We have Rockstar. The we're this is why we're canceling him. He doesn't believe that Bitcoin's designed to pump forever.
[01:52:48] Unknown:
There we go. Yeah. That's A
[01:52:51] Unknown:
a a a key success metric before lightning is the fact that that because number go up, all things equal, the fucking purchasing power capacity of the Lightning Network is gonna increase indefinitely as well. This is crazy. This is something that people are I I I think are not prepared for. They do not realize. Like and and this is coming from someone who was bearish on lightning and then bullish on lightning and then bearish on lightning and then bullish on lightning and then bearish on lightning, and now I'm bullish on lightning again. So this is someone who is constantly changing their opinion on something that they're very engaged in. I was engaged in lightning the whole time.
[01:53:29] Unknown:
Yeah.
[01:53:31] Unknown:
And and I think the number go up aspect is is poorly understood. It's not really discussed that much. Like like, it scales by itself without us doing it. Like, I'm not trying to diminish the hard work of developers. Like, developers have been working really hard and stuff. But the single most factored improvement from last year is that all my channels are worth 10 x in terms of purchasing power or not purchasing power, in terms of shitty money.
[01:54:00] Unknown:
Yeah. But if you look at the overall adoption, it is still, like, tiny. Right? Maybe 1100 BTC
[01:54:07] Unknown:
at this point. Right. 1100 BTC, but 10 x in fiat value. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, fiat value, yes. And we're talking publicly. Right? Like like, Rockstar over there is he's got, like, this whole, like, secret cabal of private channels that's going on. Yeah. Right? Like, that no one knows about. Like, that he like, between regulated institutions and shit.
[01:54:29] Unknown:
That will always be the case. The liquidity will always be 2 tiered in lightning. They'll be That's a completely different lightning network. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a completely different lightning network. The the only channel I need is the love channel to my man, Matt's heart, and we're going to send transactions.
[01:54:46] Unknown:
Definitely.
[01:54:48] Unknown:
And So that's
[01:54:50] Unknown:
a so that's a good question for you guys. Like, do you think do you think so let's talk about liquid. Okay. Because I like I like putting liquid people on the spot about lightning. I like putting lightning people on the spot about liquid. I think that this whole idea that liquid is supposed to be the the trader exchange to exchange method is fucking they're out of their mind. Like, a private lightning channel makes so much more sense for that. And I'm not saying that Liquid has no use case. I just think Liquid might actually be more useful in a more peer to peer type of environment where, like, you're trading tokens or coin joining or some bullshit, whatever, other things. But, like, why would an exchange use liquid to transfer to another exchange when they can just have, like, a private channel between those two exchanges? That's just their relationship, and they have a, like, lightning channel, a a private lightning channel.
[01:55:47] Unknown:
And that as go ahead.
[01:55:50] Unknown:
Because they need to, like, set up a exactly a channel with liquidity and provide that liquidity.
[01:55:57] Unknown:
No. But, yeah, if you're a big exchange well, first of all, Crip Loco is asking in YouTube, is this investment advice? Yes. Everything here is investment advice. That's important. Math. Yeah. Not for me. Only only the cocks will tell you that this is not investment advice. I'm pretty sure Bitcoin's not a security, so I won't get in trouble for that, but we'll see, I guess. The so so, Rockstar, this is what I'm saying. Like, if you're if you're if you're Bitfinex, you you can call up the guys at Kraken and be, like, let's open up a fucking $5,000,000
[01:56:29] Unknown:
channel. Yeah.
[01:56:31] Unknown:
Right? Yeah. But then Why get Blockstream involved? Like, why not just do that instead of getting Blockstream involved? Like, why are you gonna use liquid over Lightning private Lightning in that situation?
[01:56:43] Unknown:
Because you need to post collateral and a lot of business guys even in, like, exchanges and and trading, like, you know, like, in in in Bitcoin companies, like, those business guys, they're not really into it, and they would much rather prefer that they don't need to post collateral. I mean, what are we talking about, man? You like, you saw the release from Coinbase. 130,000,000 in Bitcoin, like, pathetic.
[01:57:11] Unknown:
I know. That was pretty sad. I mean, but that's that's Coinbase. They're shitcoiners. I mean, MicroStrategy has, you know, 90,000 Bitcoin.
[01:57:22] Unknown:
And there's your answer, like, I'm telling you, because you would think that they would have sense to, but, no, what they will do, they will IPO in $100 $100,000,000,000 valuation and dump noobs. And you will be screaming saying,
[01:57:37] Unknown:
people don't buy Coinbase. I'll buy Bitcoin. So so so so we have our we have our boy, BT Sessions, in the house. We have Ben in the house. He he's asking would the risk of hot lightning balances be outweighed by the security of Federated Lock BTC for liquid. And this is what I'm talking about. Like like, you say, like, you need collateral, but, like, if you're gonna send a liquid payment for a trader, like, you need to have that amount of money in liquid BTC. Like, this idea like like, maybe the collateral requirement is more fluid in in liquid, but you still have a collateral requirement. Like, you still need to have you either have the money at risk in a private channel between 2 regulated exchanges that have a very strong business relationship, or you have the money in a federation of, like, 16 different organizations that you might not trust or not. Right?
[01:58:33] Unknown:
Damn BTC sessions, man. Like, he always shows up late. Like, he should have asked this question before I had, like, beer, and I'm always done with my thing. Because I could maybe then explain that this makes sense to 3 of us as Bitcoiners, but it doesn't make sense to biz guys, who are posting collaterals in, like, fiat. And then there aren't even, like, settling exactly and they don't they don't also want to invest in technology to, like, open channels, maintain channels, this and that. So
[01:59:06] Unknown:
sorry, BTC sessions, but you'll need to invite No. But my point is look. Look. Look. We already we already agreed that people are idiots, and that's why we're gonna that's why that's why we're gonna make money. Right? Like, the we're gonna make money off the fact that people are idiots and that they're shortsighted. But I'm saying, eventually, when they fucking realize when all of this shit comes together and they put 2 and 2 together, it makes way more sense for a regulated exchange and another regulated exchange to have a fucking private lightning channel between each other than it does for them to use liquid. Do we agree on that? Like, do I have both of you agree on that?
[01:59:46] Unknown:
Yes.
[01:59:48] Unknown:
I think yeah. I think as the price goes up, right, it is actually easier to operate on lightning. And I don't think hot wallet risk is actually significant. Right? I think that is a risk which can be easily managed, technically.
[02:00:03] Unknown:
Why? How? As long as it's a private channel,
[02:00:10] Unknown:
you have, you know, when you are operating an exchange infrastructure, you have so much redundancy in your infrastructure built in. Right? What is the you have, you know, security infrastructure built in. You have, a redundant, you know, server on which you can run your software. You can build so much redundancy and resiliency in your infrastructure that your hardwall at risk is minimized. It'll not be like, you know, I'm not running a lightning wallet on a Raspberry Pi when I'm were operating on an exchange where I have hot wallet risk. I mean, look. The exchanges already have hot wallet risk, right, anyway,
[02:00:44] Unknown:
and they figured out how to mitigate it. Right? Like, they they they have they have mitigation strategies. You rarely find out about exchanges getting getting hacked on their hot wallet. I mean, they it does happen. That's why we have hot wallet, cold wallet splits.
[02:00:58] Unknown:
Yep.
[02:01:00] Unknown:
So But it's also different. Right? Like, they could have a they could have multiple hot wallets. Right? Like, they could have the hot wallet that's their withdrawal wallet, and they could have the hot wallet that is their private lightning network channels.
[02:01:11] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. But I I think there is some work to be done to improve the resiliency of lightning nodes also, because right now, the architecture of most of the nodes is not optimized for running in a, you know, a resilient environment where you need to have, multiple, you know, active active infrastructure. So that work is required still at the lightning node implementation level. But I think c lightning actually has a more robust implementation. But, if that work is done, that infrast that risk is also mitigated to a large extent. So if if those risks are mitigated, then, you know, lightning offers you so much flexibility.
And, and the arbitrage play can actually happen much faster, right, on lightning. And especially if the prices, continues to go up. The more price goes up, the more the more value dense your channel becomes and the more, you know, arbitrage trading volume it all your channels can handle. So I think it's a good option Yeah. For exchanges to consider.
[02:02:18] Unknown:
Like like, the exchanges like, there's a perfect example. Like, someone mentioned in here, John Wise on on Twitter, said they're too busy keeping their Shitcoin architecture going, and I would take that a step further. Yeah. I mean, the exchanges that are complaining and saying that it's too risky, they're supporting chains that are fucking they have no idea they're gonna get double spent. They're, like, super high risk, those those those shitcoin exchange those shitcoin chains, especially something like a Bitcoin SV or something, which we still have exchanges supporting to this day, which is crazy to me, or a BCash or or a Litecoin or or Ethereum classic. We see Ethereum classic. Coinbase got fucking double spent on Ethereum classic. They got Eclipse attacked, and Yeah. They got double spent.
Right. Serves them right. Like, that that's I mean, it's the original Ethereum, but still, Yeah. So, I mean, I so my point isn't to just destroy liquid. My point is it's weird that I find myself in this ecosystem, and and really, really, my my my, measurement of when I leave this space is when I think I can just listen to a show, and I just that show will cover what I'm wanna talk about. As as far as I'm concerned, as long as I have something unique to say, unique to discuss, like, I'm gonna stay here because I just fucking love Bitcoiners, and I love Bitcoin. And and my point is is is that I feel like we're in this situation where everyone just repeats the same fucking line over and over again. Liquid is for traders between exchanges.
Lightning is peer to peer. Yada yada yada bullshit. Yeah. That that's ridiculous. In with between exchanges, private channels on Lightning Network make more sense to me. I think long term and that's the strike model. Like, literally, what they're doing is they're setting up this whole infrastructure of of private channels between all these different organizations in different countries, and it allows them to to transfer value around the world instantly for very low cost. The the the the brochure will say for free, but for very low cost because we're we're trying to talk about trade offs here. On on on liquid, liquid could still be valuable for, like, a p to p type of situation, like, when you have to deal with inbound liquidity and all this different shit. Right? Like like, the public lightning network is not fleshed out yet. Like, we still have issues with the public lightning network. When an average freak wants to accept merchant payments, for instance, they have to get inbound liquidity. We had Craig Raw of Sparrow Wallet on the podcast, 2 weeks ago. He was on dispatch 2 weeks ago, and he added lightning support to his donation server. Right? His donation BTC pay server.
He didn't have inbound liquidity. Right? Yeah. And and he basically begged for inbound liquidity on Twitter, and someone gave him inbound liquidity. And shout out to the freaks. Like, I I saw, like, there was this node called Citadel onion routing node, that gave him 16,000,000 sats worth of liquidity. So shout out to that freak, whoever that freak is. That's fucking dope. But, like, he had a he had asked for it on Twitter. If if he used liquid, he didn't have to ask for it. He can just receive immediately can receive donations via liquid. Yep. And exchange doesn't have that issue. Right? Like, Kraken doesn't have to ask Bitfinex to like like, they they can just get a channel opened privately.
[02:06:02] Unknown:
Yep. Yeah. Lightning, at the retail level, definitely has that challenge. You have to buy liquidity right before you can actually receive. So, you know, lightning pool is another model where you can, you know, get liquidity. It's it's entire liquidity market in itself. But, yeah, I agree with that, that, you know, like, private channel between exchanges is definitely a viable model, and I definitely see it, getting adopted more and more. And liquid might actually get more value out of, you know, token exchanges on top of liquid rather than, you know, just, trade the liquidity facilitation between, exchanges.
But and I mean, this is just my perception. I I think lightning will compete with liquid, basically, you know, in terms of indirect security.
[02:06:52] Unknown:
I just I just, like, wish they were just better at selling liquid. Like, I just feel like they're not selling liquid in the right way. It's just the it's it's I think it could be more useful. I Rockstar, star, you have opinions on everything. You're just, like, shrugging your your head over there about our liquid conversation.
[02:07:08] Unknown:
I am just thinking, like, how to turn off my video and go refill the flask, because, like, I'm done.
[02:07:16] Unknown:
So just turn off your it's on the bottom it's on the bottom. Press the camera and go refill. I'm kinda enjoying
[02:07:22] Unknown:
the flames and hearing you to talk about liquid, because if you want to promote liquid, Matt, like, they need media personality.
[02:07:33] Unknown:
Well, it's a funny part is the funny part is I'm, like, the most critical of them as a public personality, but I also talk about them all the time because I feel like no one talks about it. So I they quote they would, like, pull out my quotes out of context, and they're just like, here's Matt talk about liquid. And I love it. They do a good job with the pullouts. I I I you know, I'm a fan of Blockstream. I think Blockstream does good work. I just think they're misguided on Liquid. I think they could use a little bit you know, if they wanna bring me on as a consultant, like, I wouldn't be against it. Pull up my Twitter.
[02:08:05] Unknown:
I mean, let's
[02:08:10] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. So so btc sessions is asking any value in the that's what I I'm excited about. He's asking if there's any value in the confidential transaction aspect. Yes. Yes. The cool part is you can take Samson Mao's, like, fucking NFT game where he's doing, like, the, infinite fleet. He's got his his video game where he has the ships are all NFTs, and they have their own token, and they have all this different shit. You can coin join those with just regular liquid Bitcoin. And because of confidential assets and confidential transactions, that coin join would be an effective coin join. Like, you wouldn't know, which is which.
Now the issue is you'd have to pull that you'd have to swap back to back to Bitcoin, and no one uses liquid. Like, literally, no one uses liquid. So it'd be very obvious. Like, there's timing analysis that would fuck you. But if people theoretically use liquid, then all of a sudden, you could have, like, a very powerful privacy tool there. Why isn't that being worked on? Like, why why do we not have a very simple, easy to use, confidential asset enabled CoinJoin tool for peers, and that's because the focus of liquid has been exchange to exchange. But they're gonna fail that focus. That focus is better for Private Lightning. It makes no sense. I am confused.
[02:09:38] Unknown:
Well, Samsung will now contact you after I tweeted it out and you too. And you tweet? No. You need also to bring up. I'll I'll give a giveaway for your listeners because if anybody is curious about that. Oh my god. All caps. Okay. Axelion,
[02:09:57] Unknown:
when hiring Matodel to promote liquid.
[02:10:00] Unknown:
Yeah. You can bring up that tweet, but please give me a brief best guest of course. Yes. Go fill up your flask. No. No. Just do have. No. I no. Bring up the other tweet because for your, listeners and stuff, like, I'll gonna do a giveaway. Give uncle Rockstar Flask. There is, like, that previous tweet. I just need you to select the winner, Matt, after this episode. Like, I don't know if you want, like, retweet selection or whatnot. What what, your flasks? You're gonna give away your flasks? Not this mine. Come on. But, if you scroll my Twitter feed, you will see, we have few, like, Quinn Solo has has few, and he can, like, send one to lucky winner.
[02:10:43] Unknown:
Oh, I got a flash for him too. They're fucking dope.
[02:10:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So let's let's also send one to Plaid, and we can organize more giveaways in Tuesday. Let let's show his site. What is his site? Quinsolo.com?
[02:10:57] Unknown:
Q u I n s o l o dot com. Is that it? Yeah. You can you can find that feature feed. It works. I told it correctly.
[02:11:08] Unknown:
Find it on my Twitter feed. Bring up the tweet on on the video on the screen.
[02:11:13] Unknown:
He's great. I mean, he gave me I have I'm I'm the notebook I'm using right now is personalized from him.
[02:11:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the guy is phenomenal. So,
[02:11:23] Unknown:
great Bitcoiner.
[02:11:24] Unknown:
But look look at this comment. I should give away my laptop with that AC clamp in there. I was actually thinking about that one because when I saw the 2 power adapters, I'm gonna be a joke when I come to Miami with that laptop.
[02:11:41] Unknown:
Yeah. That's the one, but the tweet before This is a fucking ridiculous tweet for the people watching. Like, fuck you, bro.
[02:11:51] Unknown:
Well, love you, bro. See? This next podcast I'm coming on to tell you, fuck you, bro. You tell me have, like, a serious conversation over here. We are having a serious conversation, man. Like, we are having very serious conversation. Like, does the audience agrees? Am I right, or is Matt right?
[02:12:12] Unknown:
Is this, like, the great podcast, or it sucks? Let's see the comments. I don't know what you mean by that. I mean, it's I think I think we're having a great conversation.
[02:12:20] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So then it's Look at the price.
[02:12:24] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:12:25] Unknown:
Yeah. Yep. Yo, Ben, I'll join you next Friday. I he's asking me in the comments. I'll join you next Friday. There was there was a question,
[02:12:33] Unknown:
Matt, which I think we should discuss. I don't know the person who posted it. Just the feed, like, scrolled away. But, the question is, will Taproot have any impact on lightning network development?
[02:12:45] Unknown:
Yeah. Will it?
[02:12:47] Unknown:
So I can talk at at a very high level. I think there is an impact to, first of all, the if the channel start using Taproot, right, or signature aggregation, your
[02:13:00] Unknown:
multisync transaction will look like a single sync. That's one impact. Right? Right. You get if you're if you're a Lightning user and you're using Taproot and everyone else is using Taproot, you get a privacy benefit from using Taproot. But let's be clear here. It's gonna be like SegWit. There's gonna be, like, for the 1st 2 years, there's gonna be, like, 5% of us using it. There's gonna be, like, there's gonna be, like, 5,000 people using it. Yep. So so you get a privacy decrease because you're one of the 5,000 Yeah. Or whatever.
2000. Yeah. Yeah. No one's gonna be using it in the beginning.
[02:13:42] Unknown:
Yeah. But at least within that, cohort.
[02:13:46] Unknown:
Right We might be single.
[02:13:48] Unknown:
Yeah. Everything will be single. So nobody will know what is lightning channel or what is what. Right?
[02:13:55] Unknown:
Right. So that could be lightning or a regular Bitcoin transaction. You wouldn't know. Yeah. Within that cohort, you'll not know anything.
[02:14:02] Unknown:
Second benefit might be for the l two, channels, right, which is coming in the future, I think, in lightning where, the way, channel states are handled within lightning, right, that will become more efficient with l two. Right now, the channel states require, nodes to store a lot of data, when the, you know, channel states changes. Right? Each node has stored a lot of data about all the previous states. So that will change with l two, which requires tap root. So that, I think, is a significant impact on lightning development, for Taproot.
[02:14:44] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean so so so the the answer if we wanna unpack the answer, the answer is it's it's strictly a benefit for lightning. It will be a benefit for lightning. The But, like, in practice in practice, there's no real they're they're you're not gonna see, like, some kind of massive lightning improvement. No. No. The people who are using lightning already, who are providing the routing nodes are still gonna continue to be the ones doing it, and then they're gonna still continue doing it in the same way they're doing it. There's not gonna be, like, some massive, capacity increase or anything like that. But to be clear, like, you don't even need a massive capacity increase because number go up.
Right? So so if if we're talking about 200 k Bitcoin by conference day Yes. Then, you know so then we're talking we're talking in 2 months, we're talking about 4 x lightning capacity. Massive. I have a tweet I have a tweet that I did, like, 5 months ago, where I was, like, we we went up the price the the Bitcoin price went up, like, 20% or whatever in one day, and I was, like, lightning capacity increased by 20%, and it went viral. Like, the tweet, like, just got retweeted by, like, a ton of people, and everyone just took it, like, super bulltard. And I was like, god. Like, it was because the price went up 20%, so I never joked about it again after that because I felt bad.
But, like, that's what people don't realize. Right? Like, that that's the real scaling. But but Taproot is good. So so what do you think do you have any opinion on the Taproot activation? We don't have Rockstar here, so it's good for us to talk about it right now. So
[02:16:20] Unknown:
I oh, he's back. Me, Matt. I'm there.
[02:16:26] Unknown:
Refill. Nice.
[02:16:29] Unknown:
I don't know. I I'm I just want it to be activated as soon as possible. That's all the opinion I have. Like, that's whatever it takes to get it activated. Have you been following it? Like, do you see the speedy trial thing they wanna do? No. No. I have not.
[02:16:43] Unknown:
Were you were you here for Segwit two x and shit? No. I I joined after that. I I mean Rockstar, were you here for Segwit two x? Yes. Okay. So, Suap, continue. When did you come in?
[02:16:56] Unknown:
October of 2017.
[02:16:58] Unknown:
Okay. So right after. Literally right after.
[02:17:01] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:17:02] Unknown:
So so there's a big difference between you and us. Yeah. And and I've noticed this with with our boy, Ben DeCarmen, who was on the he was on dispatch as well as he was on he he's been on TFTC a couple times. Mhmm. He's a Zoomer. He's a Bitcoin Zoomer, and he also wasn't here for SegWit. I mean, we're scarred. Like, we're broken people. So as as far look. I see Rockstar shaking his head because he's got his camera on. You are beautiful. I will make you realize that. What?
[02:17:41] Unknown:
You're, like each
[02:17:42] Unknown:
scar is beautiful, and it makes you stronger. It makes me strong. Fuck yes. I know. I I'm not saying I'm not strong, but we're scarred. We we had that war. We had that war in us.
[02:17:53] Unknown:
And we are stronger.
[02:17:55] Unknown:
Like, I don't want to waste my time. You're you're, like, so lately, like, oh, you poor. Like, we're scarred. No. No. The point is yo. Yo. Proud of it. Rockstar. The point is the point is is that Taproot is not activated until Taproot is fucking activated. Okay. Like, I don't wanna hear shit about Taproot being activated until it's fucking activated. And and and speedy trial is interesting, but it activates it in 9 months, which is fine. I'm fine with that. Okay? But Ben Ben tried to insinuate that it activates after 3 months, which is just the signaling period. And anyone who has been in that previous battle knows that signaling is not activation.
[02:18:35] Unknown:
Mhmm.
[02:18:37] Unknown:
And that that's a that that's something that that people don't respect. You know, like, the the new people don't realize it and the old people don't acknowledge it. And it's important it's important that we discuss this openly.
[02:18:51] Unknown:
And yes. And it's important to realize that we have faith in Bitcoin and everything will be well in the end, and our scars will make us stronger. So is it 3 months? Is it 9 months? Let's believe in the process. Well, I should or the people that we trust in most. So our Zoomer, Bitcoiner, Ben, I fully support. Ben, if you need concrete support for me, just reach out. I'm there, my man. Matt is doing the same. Right, Matt?
[02:19:19] Unknown:
I mean, currently, I'm looking at your your flask picture. You have so many flasks.
[02:19:24] Unknown:
No. Those are at Queen Solo. You need to bring that up on the video, and that's one of them we will give to your yours. We're only gonna give away 1? Well, we can do more, but I guess this episode, like, what? We're gonna do give give away 10?
[02:19:39] Unknown:
How many how many do okay. So we'll give away 1. How do you wanna do it?
[02:19:44] Unknown:
You just say who is selected from our rate audience and we that that person gives you address, and we tell Quinn Solon he ships it, and that's it.
[02:19:56] Unknown:
I know. But how do you wanna do the giveaway?
[02:19:59] Unknown:
Maybe you can do some some of that retweet or something. I have no No. No. I don't do that. I don't I don't believe in engagement buying.
[02:20:07] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. So we have to do, like, some kinda it has to be, like, some kinda contest or something. They have to, like, answer a question.
[02:20:15] Unknown:
Well, you you can all, like, say now and then the first comment, like, as the Flask or I guess, you want that? Or
[02:20:24] Unknown:
because What I really like about this is we're talking about it now, and we just had we had, like, a drop off on viewers. So, like, right now, we have a 100 and and 25 dedicated freaks that are joining us right now. They're the only ones that are eligible for this flask giveaway. As you can see on the screen, you can see the flasks. They're dope. I have one right here right now with me. I mean, mine doesn't say BTCPay. Mine just says Tales from the Crypt, Matt Odell on it.
[02:20:54] Unknown:
So mine is better. So yeah.
[02:20:57] Unknown:
I mean, I apparently, from this picture, mine's more limited edition.
[02:21:02] Unknown:
No. It's not because mine just has rockstar dev at the bottom, and it's, like, if we are bidding now, like, I would outbid you, like, in comments. So Okay. Well, I mean, shout out to bragj
[02:21:15] Unknown:
Braj who is clearly watching your coding sessions because he's asked for a coding session question for the Flask. So we can't do the coding session question for the Flask because he wants that.
[02:21:27] Unknown:
Yeah. I will give one on on my coding sessions.
[02:21:30] Unknown:
Maybe we met. Oh, wow. BTC PIN's already ordered something. What a boss.
[02:21:36] Unknown:
There we go. There we go. What a fucking boss, man.
[02:21:40] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:21:43] Unknown:
I fucking dig that shit. Okay. I mean, think think about a question that you wanna ask, and and we'll do a we'll do a race in the comments, and the comments are all visible to people. While we actually had people drop off, I I guess they're sober, and they just don't they don't care they don't care about the flask. No. But
[02:22:04] Unknown:
re replay views on this will be crazy, I'm sure, of that. And then when we announce that we're doing, like, that, philosophy one, that one will have tons of yours. You'll see. Yo. Bitcoin's pumping, man.
[02:22:21] Unknown:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yep. You guys you guys, when you wake up in the morning, what's the do you check the price first thing, or do you control yourself?
[02:22:30] Unknown:
I try to control myself. I'm able to do it after 30 minutes, but cannot cannot hold it back more than that. And b t g payser.
[02:22:44] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I I'm I'm completely guilty of this is the first thing I do is I check the price in the morning. It's horrible. I I I I I check the price in the morning, and then I commend myself for not checking the price at 3 in the morning. You know? Like, I don't wake up in the middle of sleeping and check the price, so I'm responsible about it. Also but during the day, I actually I'm completely numb on price. I don't check the price. Oh, I do. Yeah. P p pissilar as you check balls first. You always check balls first, and that's what's interesting. You check balls, then you check the price.
Yeah. During during the day, I don't check the price unless unless Twitter freaks out. If Twitter freaks out, then I'm like, oh, shit. I should check.
[02:23:33] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I usually I usually check Twitter first and then I go to the price.
[02:23:39] Unknown:
Did I just start
[02:23:42] Unknown:
What was that, Rockstar? I just start coding, man. You just start you never check the price. You're just completely
[02:23:49] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I'm honestly I feel like I I don't care, honestly, like, about price. And for me, it's it's just I I've checked your feed more often than Bitcoin price.
[02:24:02] Unknown:
Whose feed? Like, your Matt O'Dell. I mean, I'm I'm guilty of not checking Suheb's feed as much. So sorry, Suhab. I mean, my feed's high signal. Right? Like, you get you get, like, the solid memes and the and, like, things you need to know.
[02:24:17] Unknown:
Your feed is the highest signal. Like, I'm telling everyone, like, everyone watching this, like, Matt Odell is the best Bitcoin evangelist, like, that exists, and he is even though he gets tons of credit, he doesn't get enough credit. And it's getting a little bit to him, so we all need to show how much he means so that yeah. See? Because he's not feeling the love. He get getting, like, idiots blocking him in Twitter because we he's trying to teach them something, but we'll get Matt back into our Bitcoin family, and he'll rejuvenate himself with love.
[02:25:02] Unknown:
Yo. Big shout out to Lindbergh 3RT for retweeting us right now. Like, freaks, it's it's really helpful if you if you guys stage your retweets, so that we can get maximum traction on. Like, I I don't think you guys realize, like, we're still a microcosm to CryptoTwitter. Like, the the fucking they're my boys. Well, one of them is my boy. Ledger Status is my boy. Crypt Crypto Cobain is just a legend, and he's not my boy. And together, they have Up Only as their TV show or their their their Twitch show. Mhmm. They get they like, right now, they would have, like, 1500 people listening. They'd have, like, 2,000 people watching their fucking show.
And, like, what do they talk they talk about shit coins. The whole time, they're talking about fucking shit coins. So, like, we are winning. We're fucking winning. We're absolutely winning, but we could do better. Like, I we we need to improve. We need to win more.
[02:26:09] Unknown:
Man, all all we would need to do is, like, announce, like, your network and my network or, you know, try to farm the way Kobi does. And but we need to deal with people, like, sending us. So send me, you know, 101,000,000 sets or I'll kill myself and stuff like that. Like, why do you need that? That's it's No. But I get those as well. Well, it seems I I I should be in that shot because, man, for me, it's like I'm coding,
[02:26:39] Unknown:
in touch with all the great people. Got Ty in here.
[02:26:43] Unknown:
Yeah. So
[02:26:45] Unknown:
so yeah. No. I mean, like, freaks. I would take you a 100 over whatever 1,000 they have. You know? I'm not I'm not I'm not, I'm not diminishing your value. I I don't wanna diminish your value. I'm just saying I'm just saying that there's a whole different ballgame that exists that we just aren't even aware of.
[02:27:07] Unknown:
You want you want your friends to front run billionaires, and you're trying, trying, trying. That's that's I wanna win.
[02:27:15] Unknown:
Yes. I I know. I I would ever since I came out of my mom, I've just wanted to win.
[02:27:22] Unknown:
Okay. Yeah. This will be a quote on this call. Like, I'm telling you, like, this will be this will be replayed like crazy. Yeah. But, no, here is here is Uncle Rockstar advice. It's not it yeah. It's not the destination. It's the truth. Give away stats. Matter. It matters more how you win than than whether you win or not because look at me, man. Like, I have this strategy of always losing, but in the end, like, I somehow win. So you should embrace that.
[02:27:56] Unknown:
So We will not give away I will not give you freaks any money whatsoever. You will never get money from me because I'm giving you the easiest fucking cheat code for the world, and that is just fucking stacking sats. Like, that's it. That's all you have to fucking do. And then we all win together. Like, I am not gonna give you any fucking money. I'm not gonna buy your engagement. I'm not gonna have giveaways and all this bullshit. I mean, besides, we're I guess we're giving away this blast, but, like, not as a standard. And we're not gonna fucking just buy your fucking engagement, ask for retweets and shit. Like, that's not gonna happen. Actually, I I did ask for a retweet to be completely but I asked for a retweet out of love, not out of any kind of quid per quo.
[02:28:44] Unknown:
See see the comments. See Patricia.
[02:28:47] Unknown:
They're so good. I love them. Matt Matt sells fishing rods, not fish. Fishing rods are expensive. And Romario So what are we gonna do? What do you wanna do about Flask? You wanna do, do you wanna do a price bet? Because I I the price prediction because I think that's, like, usually the cleanest way to do it.
[02:29:10] Unknown:
Sure. If you want, man. I mean, you you're the one.
[02:29:14] Unknown:
Okay. So so right now right now, it is, 7:30 EST, which means it's 24:30 UTC. In a half an hour, you can guess the price of Bitcoin once. And if you guess it right, then you get the flask, and you only have 20 minutes to guess it. So the last 10 minutes are, oh, no. No. No. Rockstar decides
[02:29:48] Unknown:
Rockstar decides No. No. No. No. No. That's that's it. Because Rockstar actually needs to head out right now and You're leaving us? I need to go, man. Bitcoin calls some other place where that that's all I should say.
[02:30:06] Unknown:
Okay. So everyone, just guess a price. I'll let Rockstar know. You have 20 minutes. I'm gonna continue with Suheb. Rockstar, do you have any final comments before you leave us?
[02:30:18] Unknown:
Call me. We need to talk, Matt. And, bring up that tweet where the people can, like, do guesses so it's unified on on, like,
[02:30:29] Unknown:
audio. So what I'm gonna have is we're gonna give out 2 flasks. But we're gonna give one flask to the person who guesses right, and we're gonna give a flask to the person who collates all of these guesses because I'm not gonna fucking do it. No. No.
[02:30:43] Unknown:
Bring up the tweet, man. Just bring up the tweet.
[02:30:46] Unknown:
What tweet? Well You want them to tweet at us? Okay. So, guys, the only way you can do your guess is if you tweet at the 3 of us. What?
[02:30:54] Unknown:
No. Like, either bring up that tweet or mine or you tweet something out, Matt, where people will put put the the guess of the price. And Oh, yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna put out a tweet that's gonna say put your guesses here Yes.
[02:31:08] Unknown:
And then put your guesses under there. I'm ready to tag the 3 of us. I'm gonna tag I'm gonna tag the 2 of you here.
[02:31:17] Unknown:
And and queen solo, tag him as well so he knows he will be delivering the order. You will let me let him know who wins.
[02:31:24] Unknown:
Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna tag him first. That's actually that's a pretty good idea. And, Brock, so you have any last comments before you leave us? I appreciate you joining us. I hope you come back again soon. I I I hope you join us in Miami as well. Do you have any final comments?
[02:31:42] Unknown:
No. Yeah. Call me. And number 2, my dear pledge, this was awesome setup. I really enjoyed it. I wish Matt spent less time saying fuck you to me and saying more love you. And we were like, let's interact with our audience, but he's like, no. I'm losing people to billionaires and shitcoiners. I need to save them. But we'll we'll save Matt. Don't don't you worry. Everything will be fine. Uncle Rockstar will take care of everything. So those are my final thoughts.
[02:32:19] Unknown:
It was pleasure. Let me retweet you. We love you, bro. You remind everyone how to follow uncle Rockstar's coding sessions.
[02:32:28] Unknown:
Yes. On Sunday. Thanks. It's been pleasure, Suheb. Like, sorry, man. I didn't open PR. As long as I will open it, man, but I would like loop has this thing where, l and d needs to be synced to chain before it starts properly, and I'm trying to do that in batch script as is, like, needed. But Oh, so you're trying to no. But look and wait now. Is there, like, some parameter that that, like, I can give it and it can wait? Or or it's it's just some something that's released in the latest version?
[02:33:06] Unknown:
Yeah. Check with, a friend, Alex. I think in the last release, he has put in some logic where he can wait. I don't think you should do that put that logic in. That'll complicate your implementation.
[02:33:20] Unknown:
Let them let loop wait for LMB. See. And now Matt's love is growing. He's like, okay. I connect the technical people. They solve the problem. This is great.
[02:33:30] Unknown:
This is something this is one of the most requested feature for BDC server. At least that's all the feedback that I get, and I think we should make it happen.
[02:33:38] Unknown:
Whatever you need. I know. But look look at me. Like, I turn, like, last, there is my man, Matt, not feeling the love. Now I need to dedicate time to that. Like, loop. I'm I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna Yeah. Plebs, if I didn't open up loop PR, like, everybody shamed me on Twitter
[02:33:57] Unknown:
by Thursday. Okay. Yeah. Check the last release for loop. I will. Yo, rock star. We love you. We love you. Thank you for joining us.
[02:34:06] Unknown:
See you. Bye. Peace. Bye.
[02:34:10] Unknown:
Bang bang. I've never had this happen before. I figured we might as well continue for a little bit.
[02:34:15] Unknown:
Yeah. Freeze. That's fine.
[02:34:18] Unknown:
So we have we have this tweet going on where people are guessing in the in the in the Twitter. So you can continue guessing there. You have 20 minutes to do that. You have 15 minutes left. What we say, u t c u t c 2550. Right? Yeah. 2550, I think.
[02:34:39] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:34:41] Unknown:
15 minutes. You have fucking 15 minutes. What do you wanna talk about, Suheb? It's just me and you. You wanna shit talk, rock star? You wanna what do you wanna talk about?
[02:34:51] Unknown:
So I want to clarify myself. When I said that, do you wanna talk about Ethereum? I actually meant that, do you wanna shit on Ethereum?
[02:34:58] Unknown:
Oh, yeah. You wanna shit on Ethereum?
[02:35:00] Unknown:
Yeah. Uh-huh. I think, Ethereum the Ethereum's or ETH heads are one of the most annoying people on put on crypto Twitter. I really and I'm really annoyed by their arguments.
[02:35:14] Unknown:
I think it's it's pretty crazy that it's 2021, and they still believe what they think. They they that they actually believe, and that's bullish as fuck for us. Right? Because, like, they're gonna have to figure out over time.
[02:35:29] Unknown:
Yep. It is completely designed for centralization from bottom to top. Right? Look at anything, any aspect, any dimension of Ethereum. It's just built for centralization, starting from its founder who's still there, still heavily involved. Right? Remove him. Right? If you want it to be completely decentralized, start with that. Why do you have the central figure? That's one thing. Second thing, they have this, you know, so much pre mined, Ethereum. That's another vector for centralization. Then this complicated architecture that they're building. Right? The more that creates, developer centralization.
Right? And then, on top of that, proof of stake, that creates minor centralization. Right? There are so many and and then the last thing, which is their blockchain, which is so massive and big, nobody's able to run the complete archival node. That create the 3rd like, the last level of centralization at the technical level. So it is completely designed to be centralized entity. There's the calling it decentralized finance or DeFi is just putting a lipstick on a pigmented. It's it's not centralized. It decentralized at all. This is just a nightmare, and, it's gonna end badly.
[02:36:49] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, they're fucking lying. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's it's it's and it's fine. Like, it is what it is. Like, there there is there is value ish in a more centralized system. You have a different trade off balance, so you're able you're able to offer faster and cheaper transactions, you know, all else equal usually because you lack the censorship resistance that distribution provides. So, first of all, Ben Session said that Citadel Dispatch is better than Bitcoin Astrology Girl with Nick Carter. Yes. Like, we all agree. I can't believe he sold out. I can't believe Nick, our boy Nick, sold out for fucking a 100 k followers.
[02:37:35] Unknown:
Yeah.
[02:37:35] Unknown:
We will never forget. The plebs will never forget. Like, he he had astrology girl that he set up with and also Pump. He had he had Pump tweet them out. He just didn't care. He was like, I'll take the bots. It's fine. So that that is what it is. He'll always have to live with that. So I I I appreciate you for mentioning that, Ben. The people that are putting price predictions in the chat right now, you are not qualified. Like, you have to answer it on Twitter per rock star. Now I don't want you to retweet or like ratio me. I want you to ratio me on Twitter. I don't wanna I don't want I'm not trying to buy engagement here. Just ratio me on Twitter, just respond, and and do it. So one of the freaks, Suhab, is calling you out. When you why do you have Litecoin support on RTL? No one uses Lightning on Litecoin.
[02:38:21] Unknown:
I don't think we have. What we have not we don't do anything for Litecoin. I don't do any change for Litecoin. Maybe what we have to do is, you know, specifically stop it. Right? Make a change such that nobody's able to run RTL with Litecoin. Right? Block Litecoin. That's what we have to do. Otherwise, you know, the question is actually for lightning implementations. Right? See, lightning supports it. LND supports it. They should stop it. We are not really I'm not actually doing any coding for supporting Litecoin.
[02:38:55] Unknown:
But I I I yeah. It's irrelevant because no one like, there's no Lightning Network on Litecoin. Right? Like, no one is Yeah. It's it's
[02:39:03] Unknown:
it's completely, ghost town. There's no there's no lightning network on on Litecoin. Yeah.
[02:39:09] Unknown:
Ty is asking, is asking you specifically if you're going to the meet up on Thursday, but, really, he should be asking both of us. We're both gonna try and make it. I I'm I might have an RHR issue. I'm gonna try and I'll try and be there, though. I registered. I I registered. I am coming for sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna register, but I I'm trying to show up. But we should we have Marty in the comments. We will never forget Nick. I fuck. Yes. Exact exactly right, Marty. That's what I'm talking about. We're we'll bring it up we'll bring it up on our HR. We'll make it we'll make sure that all the freaks hear it even if they're not listening to dispatch.
[02:39:48] Unknown:
Okay. So b see, BTC PINs are saying we didn't put it on Bitcoin only because LTC supported.
[02:39:53] Unknown:
I think he's talking about BTC Pay.
[02:39:57] Unknown:
I think he's talking about RTL.
[02:39:59] Unknown:
RTL supported Litecoin. I thought I liked you. I think he's talking BTC Pins, I think you're confused. Are you talking about BTC Pins? He said no. I don't even know what that means. Kill your idols. Okay. Kill everybody. RTL. He's talking about RTL. You fucking have Litecoin support you piece of shit. Okay. I'll have to specifically do something to stop it. Nobody with No. It's fine. It's whatever. I forgive you. You know, Bitcoin only has a I love 6102. He's fantastic. I've I've said many times this is the 6102 show. Between number go up and me failing him on the bottle pay front, like, he's he's left me in these episodes. I'm hoping he comes back. I missed it. I I
[02:40:49] Unknown:
for the record, I want to say Litecoin is shitcoin, and I don't support it at all. I think it's one of the scam coins just to
[02:40:59] Unknown:
Well, I I mean, I think it's probably one of the biggest scam coins because I think, like, at least at least there could be an argument there could be an argument that, I don't know, like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna say it, but I don't really mean it. But like a shit coin like link or something where they're like, oh, we're like an oracle or or some shit. Like, Litecoin has no purpose whatsoever. It's just a worse version of Bitcoin. It's just, like, straight up a worse version of Bitcoin. I don't think link has a purpose, but, like, at least you can kind of create some kind of narrative, or some shit, you know. But Litecoin is just like a complete fucking the first shitcoin ever and complete fucking absolute shitcoin.
Matt endorsed Link. Fuck you, Ty. I did not endorse Link. Link is a piece of shit. My point is yeah. So so so no one's using no one's using Lightning on Litecoin at all. Yep. They there there's no the network doesn't exist. So I understand if the support is just because it's a fork or whatever, but, like, just fucking get rid of it. Just clean clean clean house over there on that front.
[02:42:06] Unknown:
But lightning implementations are also supporting it. Right? LND supports Litecoin because Charlie Lee is one of the investors. Right? So I I don't know why c lightning supports it, though. But, the c lightning also supports light point. So they should really stop it. Right? While we I mean, we can I can do it? We can specifically do something to block Yeah. Just block it. Just yeah.
[02:42:34] Unknown:
Just change your license. Be like, we're open source except for Litecoin. Yeah. Is that Yeah. Create, like, a new, like, create a new license. Like, unless you're using it for an altcoin, it's open source.
[02:42:46] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll do it. I'm happy to do it. Next release. Block Litecoin.
[02:42:56] Unknown:
Oh, so that was the point. Oh, so so I love 6102. Right? But I feel like there's a little bit too much on and, like, I deserve all this shit. Right? Because Cash App's a sponsor of RHR, and we have Unchained Capital. I love those guys over on Unchained Capital. Also, KYC sponsor of RHR. I think there's there's too much focus on the shit coins and not enough focus on KYC. And it's weird because Bitcoin only doesn't support HODL HODL or Bisk. And, like, really, those are, like, the 2 main things we should be focusing on. Like, I have BISK on the the bottom price on on this chart right now that people see is the BIS price, and just because they support Altcoins doesn't mean that we shouldn't be supporting it. I think the KYC element is is the more dangerous element.
And I think 60102 agrees with that. He's, like, conflicted on it.
[02:43:59] Unknown:
So KYC, specifically, right, is also a my take on that is that it's a temporary situation until hyperbitcoinization. Once you have hyperbitcoinization, how much, effective KYC can be? Right? That's that's also something that we can think about. Right? If there's a circular economy, do you think that the KYC will be effective?
[02:44:26] Unknown:
No. Yeah. It's it's a it's a temporary pain point. Yeah. But this is why, like, RTL and BTCPay are so important. Right? Like, if we don't have the open source infrastructure in place, then you won't have the p to p economy that can obviate it. Right?
[02:44:41] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
[02:44:55] Unknown:
I just wanted to say thank you for adding coin control. So, Zeus, our boy, Evan Kaludis, just added, who obviously is listening because he posted a prediction for for the fucking Yes. Blast. He added, pick first hop and last hop. Yeah. Okay. Does RTL have that feature yet?
[02:45:24] Unknown:
Yes. First hop is there. Last hop? Last last hop, can be added. It's not there right now. It can be added, though. That's kinda cool. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But last hop is oh, last hop is when then you'll control the complete circuit. If you're Last hop's the most important hop. Oh, wait. First hop's probably the more important hop. Right? 1st hop is more important than than you actually can control which channel the payments goes through when you are con controlling the first hop. Right? That is available. If you go to the payment section, you can actually decide which channel the payment can go.
[02:45:58] Unknown:
Okay. Wait. I'm sorry. We'll continue this conversation. Me and Marty talking about business on air has continued because Marty has posted in Periscope that I'll be able to attend the meetup on Thursday because we have to record RHR early. Yeah. Okay. So the freaks can expect RHR early on Thursday, and the New York freaks can expect me at the meetup. Awesome. Thank you, Marty. I appreciate you. And I also appreciate the fact that we talk business on air even when you're not on air. The first hop is more important in terms of timing analysis and stuff. Right? Like, they literally know how much you're sending and when you're sending it. So if if you don't pick the last hop, you're still probably better off than if you can only pick last stop, I guess. But I still think it's pretty cool, that you could pick first and last. Like, it gives you a lot of control on which way it goes. Right?
[02:46:51] Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. You get a lot of control. I don't know, though, if you control it that much, the chances of your payment failure can increase.
[02:47:01] Unknown:
Right? That's something that can happen. Yeah. The more control you have, the more chance of failure. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the Because otherwise, the software can automate against failure.
[02:47:12] Unknown:
Yeah. First stop is fine. In case of first stop, we can actually build validations because we know, that you are sending out a specific payment. So if your channel does not have have a capacity to send that payment out, that validation can be built in the front end itself. But if you pick the first hop and the last hop also, last hop can be problematic because you would not know whether the chat liquidity in the channel is on which side. There there's no way for you for you to know. So there there's a chance of payment failure if you control it too much.
[02:47:46] Unknown:
So we have so I agree with you. So we have, a freak Ross Bennett asking in the comments, Suheb, how can you say everything is a shitcoin? If security can be resolved with proof of stake, then that's not a shitcoin. Yes. The Vitalik Buterin is the face of it and is centralized, but that's because it's under development. What do do you have an answer to him?
[02:48:11] Unknown:
So, you know okay. Let's assume let's go with the argument that it's currently under development. But since that one particular person is controlling so much of the development, once the development is over, do the risk of centralization is still there. Right? It's not like software is never done. Software is created and is maintained. So if that guy is holding that much knowledge and control, it will always be centralized with him, right, or whoever he wants to impart that knowledge to. Right? It's never going to be decentralized in terms of development. And, actually, there's another problem.
You know, if the architecture that you're building is incredibly complicated, no matter what you do, you will never be able to decentralize it.
[02:48:58] Unknown:
The contest is closed right now. $55,524. Okay. Let's see who won. Oh, no. No. No. It's closed, but it's not the price yet. Okay. We have to wait 10 more minutes. I apologize. Contest is closed. No more entrance.
[02:49:12] Unknown:
Okay. Okay. Okay. So apologies, freaks.
[02:49:16] Unknown:
A little bit too much mezcal. Continue. Sorry, Suwad.
[02:49:19] Unknown:
No problem. So, yeah, what I was saying is, the development still continues to be centralized around him. Right? Because he's the one who's holding the most knowledge. And just because the development will be done does not mean that that knowledge suddenly will be distributed among, you know, however, whatever number of developers there there are. And the complexity of it is making it even more, extreme. Look at how much complexity they're building into it. Bitcoin is decentralized in terms of its developers, in terms of the size of its blockchain, in terms of, you know, every other factor. Right?
In terms of proof of work, mining. Right? Ethereum will never be able to match that level of,
[02:50:05] Unknown:
decentralization. Never. What Suwab's trying to say is it's a fucking shit coin.
[02:50:09] Unknown:
Absolutely.
[02:50:10] Unknown:
Like like, I don't think you understand. Like, if if you wanna if you wanna give us all these different reasons why it's not a shit coin, okay. But but proof of work is the fundamental innovation here. Okay? The the there the the confusion that we have in this space is that my dog is barking, but besides that is that everyone thinks there's a bunch of shit corners that think that proof of work is the issue that needs to be solved. In reality, proof of work is the solution. It is it is the innovation. It is what we've discovered to create a distributed consensus that can't be fucking corrupted by by an individual centralized individual.
And the issue is is that I don't think that the the the the key value prop of Bitcoin is that it can't be changed easily, and I don't think proof of stake can ever reach that kind of immutability. Like, you can never reach that level of not being able to change it. So that's why it's a shitcoin. And and and and more importantly, I mean, if you wanna expand the definition of shitcoin, it's things that trend to 0 in terms of Bitcoin. And I I think Ethereum is gonna trend to 0 in terms of Bitcoin. And if you disagree with me, that is fine. Like, I am fine with you disagreeing with me on on where Ethereum price goes.
I think you will get wrecked. I think you will get wrecked, and I am I am absolutely fine with waiting and deciding together in the future, like, who was right here. So so if if if you wanna speculate on it, feel free to feel free to speculate on it. And in the future, we'll look back and we'll decide who is right based on who has more stats is basically is is is basically my thought process here.
[02:52:05] Unknown:
I give it not more than 5 years. It'll be 0 in 5 years. The thing is be done. It's, like, I'm known for saying trend to 0, which I do believe.
[02:52:16] Unknown:
I think I think the haters don't realize that when I say trend to 0, trend to 0 does not mean 0. There's a big difference between trend to 0 and 0. Things can trend to 0 and never hit 0. Like, it could take years. But, like, look at this chart. Look at this chart and tell me, like, Ethereum is doing good things. Like, this is a ridiculous chart. Like, this is this is Ethereum versus Bitcoin. Like, that shit's trending to 0. Like, it's not 0. It might never be 0. It'll be So, like, I'm gonna continue stacking Sats, and, like, if you wanna look at that chart and pretend that Ethereum is doing good and, like, they're killing it and that it's a better investment than just buying Bitcoin and holding Bitcoin and stacking sets, then by all means, fucking do it. I don't fucking care.
But in the future, when I fucking dunk on you, I don't wanna hear Matt's being mean or I'm gonna block Matt or this or that. Like, that's when you're wrong. But in the meantime, if you wanna buy it, feel free. I'm saying it'll be 0. Quote me on this. In 5 years, Ethereum will be absolutely 0. So this is what Ross is wrong about. He's saying this is our Bitcoin's our first attempt at it. It's not our first attempt at it. There's been many attempts at Yeah. At at at digital money before Bitcoin existed. I don't know what my dogs are going crazy about. You guys can all hear that. Right?
[02:53:42] Unknown:
I think too much Ethereum talk. We need to stop it. Yeah. Let's talk about
[02:53:52] Unknown:
how much more time we have. Rockstar said he was busy, but, like, he's just meanwhile, he's just shitposting on Twitter and tagging me on things. We have at least 5 more minutes. We have to wait until the contest ends. I think we can't end the episode until the contest ends. I'm happy. I'm happy to be on. So you have anything else to talk about, sir? I mean, it's been a long time coming. I've been trying to get you on I mean, most people don't realize, like, RTL is a husband wife team. You wanna talk about that at all? Or
[02:54:25] Unknown:
Oh, sure. I I thought I'd I'd keep it for RHR. Oh, no. Yeah. Or, you know, TFTC
[02:54:30] Unknown:
rather, you know. I mean, boom. We're we're trying to get we're trying to get Sueb's wife on, but I I think that's pretty cool that you both work on it together. I think that's fantastic. That's all I wanted to say. I just wanted to give her a shout out. That's all. I didn't want you don't have to spill the secrets.
[02:54:45] Unknown:
I think it's an open secret among Bitcoiners. Everybody knows knows about it, but nobody talks about it kind of thing.
[02:54:55] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, she's legitimately our queen. Like, I I need I if if I didn't have RTL, I'd be completely fucked in terms of running my Lightning node. Straight up, Suheb. Like, I don't think you realize, like, how important RTL is to this space. Like, every single routing node operator is pretty much like, probably everyone except Bosworth, is is is using RTL to run their routing node. And then Bosworth is, like, you can make so many Bitcoin off of routing fees and stuff. Like, oh, fuck you, dude. But, like, everyone else is using RTL.
[02:55:32] Unknown:
Yeah. Thanks a lot for that. That's what keeps us going. Yeah. The objective is to be able to make some difference. Right? Give back whatever we can with whatever skills we have. And then so do you have, like you have a lot of open source contributors that are also participating in that? So that's something that we want to improve on RTL. You know, we don't have lot of contribution. We're getting some design contribution actually now, but, development wise, we don't get that much contribution. And we are happy to assist. Right? If this so I'll talk about the skill set which is required. You know, you need, from a front end development perspective, if you have angular skills, in JavaScript, then that's what we use to develop, the application.
If you have node JS skills, that's what, the middle layer is written in. So any of this area, feel free to, contribute. We are more than happy to encourage people, provide them guidance on the design, the how the code is structured, and, we're happy to, you know, get the contributions. But that's something we want to improve. We want to get more eyes on the on the project because, you know, a lot of people use it. It's integrated in so many notes and I can do that. Do you need me you need my help? Should I, like, be talking to people and telling people on on the podcast that they should participate in RTL? Yeah.
You know, helping with code review of PRs, you know, giving us feedback on the UI. Anyway, it can help, but we definitely want more eyes on the code. Right? Actually, Evan helped us. He did a security review of the code. Evan who? Evan Kaludis.
[02:57:15] Unknown:
Yeah. I know. I was just fucking Yeah. Yeah. He's been on the podcast three times now. Evan Kaludis has helped.
[02:57:21] Unknown:
Yeah. So yeah. The more the more eyes, the better the, more robust the software, would be. So that's the help that we need.
[02:57:32] Unknown:
Ross, like, I'm not trying to be I'm not close minded here. Like, I I just want the shit corners to realize I'm not close minded. Like, my advice is statistically correct. Historic like, if you look back like, if you backdate my advice, I'm correct. You're better off stacking sats than trading shitcoins. The the overwhelming majority of people are better off stacking sats than trading shitcoins. You might be able to make money short term. Most people will lose money short term, and and you're just better off just simply stacking. If you wanna play that game, feel free to play that game. I don't fucking care.
It's it's it's not a negative to Bitcoin. Shit coins are a negative to the people that decide to gamble on them. We are 1 minute away from the price, and I am watching the clock, freaks. I'm not I'm not not watching the clock. And because I'm watching the clock, like, how can we talk about anything else? I I don't even know. How would you kill Bitcoin, Suheb? What's the biggest threat to Bitcoin? If if you're let's pretend you're America. Like, you're the the strongest government in the world. Oh, shit. 55559. Boom.
That's it. That's the number. 55559.
[02:58:55] Unknown:
559.
[02:58:59] Unknown:
That's a good price.
[02:59:05] Unknown:
How would you kill Bitcoin?
[02:59:07] Unknown:
I think, onerous regulation is the easiest way to do it. You know, make it difficult for people to spend Bitcoin. Right? Require a lot of reporting from the merchants. Right? Whoever is going to spend Bitcoin, you have to report. Right? That will that is the most likely route right now. I don't think there's any other, route which will actually kill Bitcoin right now. Just trying to control it at the spigots where people would want to spend it. Right? I don't think, I think most of the risks at this point, is mitigated, and it's likely that there won't be any onerous regulation which will actually come and try to stop Bitcoin. I think that ship has sailed now.
[03:00:04] Unknown:
Yeah. I mean, I the reason I asked the question my dogs are still going. I don't even know what's going on over there. I was not one minute late. Whatever the freaks are saying over there. Yeah. I mean, my question is mostly a rhetorical question. I think we're kind of past the point. I they they can kill it, but they have to be coordinated. I don't know if they could be coordinated. I'm trying to look through the guesses. I mean, to be clear, Freaks, you only qualified if you if you responded on on Twitter. Our issue is we have 2 people that did the oh, shit. We had 2 people that did 5 5 5 5 5 5, but Rad Vladdy did 0.55, which makes him closer.
Fucking these giveaways are always fucking tight as fuck. I'll figure it out in the morning, to be quite honest. But I think, I appreciate all you freaks for participating. Yeah. I mean, I I I I think I think this has been a great conversation. I appreciate all the freaks for joining us. Do you have any last comments, Suheb? And I figure we'll just close this up.
[03:01:18] Unknown:
No. Thanks for having me on. The talk start, they've definitely stole the show. It was a fun conversation.
[03:01:24] Unknown:
Well, I'm glad we just had me and you afterwards. You know? It's a nice little intimate Get some serious follow-up. Talk. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. Definitely. Thanks a lot. I have one more question. I have one more question for you before we leave. Sure. Freaks, don't leave us yet. So so this idea of yield, this idea that, like, you can get, like, yield off a lightning pool, do you think this is, like, bullshit? Like like, you have a deflationary asset that's supposed to increase in value forever. We're literally watching the price pump in real time as as we're recording this episode. Why am I searching for half a percent yield on lightning?
Like, that's ridiculous. Right? Like, that's just it's a bonus, but it's not really I don't think people are really gonna search for it that much. Do you agree? I, yeah, I completely
[03:02:15] Unknown:
agree, actually, on that. Right? And that's why you don't see a lot of enthusiasm on our part to actually do a loop pool integration also. But, I agree with you. This is a deflationary asset, so hunt for yield is not something which is, which is as important as it is being made out to be. Right? But I do feel that, there will be some sort of a lending market which will develop on natively on Bitcoin. And, a product like pool actually gives us an insight into how to develop that, that type of market because, you know, I I don't think that lending or borrowing even if it's a hyperbitcoinization, lending and borrowing will stop.
Right? I don't think that'll happen. So
[03:03:02] Unknown:
Right. There'll always be lending and borrowing, but, like so we have Sean saying here that I didn't listen to it, but Marty said that there's gonna be 8 to 12% APY, you know, yearly yield from from lightning pool on Preston's podcast. Like, that's not gonna be the case. It's gonna be significantly less than 1%. Like, it's not gonna be that much. I don't I don't I think it trends I think it trends to 0 along with everything else. Would you agree?
[03:03:25] Unknown:
Yeah. I agree with that. And and, you know, but, yeah. So lending and borrowing might have will happen on Bitcoin also. But, how would the price be decided, you know, or interest rate be decided? I'm not sure. But it's not gonna be very high. I think the model by the market. It'll be decided by the market. Yeah. But the model will actually trend towards more equity based financing, I think,
[03:03:49] Unknown:
on my side rather than I think I think the lack of friction to participate in the market reduces the I think the fact that you have twofold. You have lack of friction to participate in the market, and then you have the fact that Bitcoin is designed to pump forever, and you combine those two things together and the yield would be low. It'll it'll, like, trend it trendish to 0. But I'm not saying it's gonna be 0. Right? Like, I I think it'll be just I think it'll be low. I it'll be market based. The the mark it'll be the market based rate, and it'll it'll be based off basically the risk of the hot wallet and participating.
[03:04:26] Unknown:
But I I so I would say pool products' main value proposition is not really creating yield based market for yield. Right? Because anyway, if you facilitate liquidity on lightning, you do earn routing revenue. So why are you trying to, you know, double or, you know, increase that, rent that you're
[03:04:50] Unknown:
already extracting a rent in form of rent, you know, routing. Right? While you're trying to increase that by adding a factor of yield. Right? So No. No. I mean, most people are are using the fee rate as the yield. Right? So, like, I I put up I put up Bitcoin and then whatever my fee rate is is my yield.
[03:05:08] Unknown:
No. No. And that's your routing revenue. In on in pool, you get an additional yield as well. It's not just the routing revenue that you As alone. Yeah. You are actually bidding for a price of liquidity. So you get that payment upfront. When you buy liquidity, the whoever is buying liquidity is making some payment upfront.
[03:05:27] Unknown:
And then on top of that, there There'll be some rate. There'll be some yield rate, but it's gonna be low. It's gonna it's gonna trend low. And and and and for the average person, like, you don't have to fucking seek it out because if you just stack and just hold, like, your purchasing power should go up anyway. Definitely. No doubt about it. Your your purchasing power will continue to increase and will may increase more by just holding rather than risking,
[03:05:51] Unknown:
you know, and going for this 1 or 2%.
[03:05:54] Unknown:
Sueb, it's been a fucking pleasure. Freaks, it's been a pleasure. Sueb, come down to Miami. Freaks, come down to Miami. Use code humble. Well, Sueb doesn't have to. All caps. Sueb already has a ticket. Sueb, I'll see you on Thursday. I'm gonna bring my lady with. Any New York freaks here, I'll see you on Thursday as well. Download Suhub's software, ride the lightning, Google search it, go contribute go contribute on GitHub. I'll see you freaks on Thursday for rabbit hole recap. Try and use social media less. Try and stack more sats. Try and convince your friends to also stack so that we don't have to support them after hyper Bitcoinization, and we can just all build the Citadel together. I love all you freaks. Stay humble in StackSats,
[03:06:42] Unknown:
and thanks for that. Take care. Bye.
[03:06:48] Unknown:
Fuck all you hoes. Get a grip, motherfucker. Yeah. This album is dedicated to all the teachers that told me I'll never amount to none. To all the people that lived above the buildings that I was hushin' in front of that call the police on when I was just tryin' to make some money to feed my daughter. And all the niggas in the struggle. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's all good, baby, baby. It was all a dream. I used to read Word Up Magazine. Salt and pepper and heavy D up in the limousine Hanging pictures on my wall Every Saturday, rapper tacked Mr. Magic Molly Mall I let my tape rock through my tape cock Smokin' weed and bamboo Sippin' on private stocks Way back when I had the red and black lumberjack With the hack, the match Remember rapping too? The har, the har You never I was too used to packing cats and stuff. Now honey's play me close like butter, play coke. From the Mississippi down to the East Coast. Condos in Queens, indo for weeks. Soul out seeks to hear biggie small speak.
Living like what I fear. Putting 5 carrots in my baby girl ear. Lunches, brunches, interviews by the pool, considered a fool because I dropped out of high school. Stereotypes of a black male misunderstood, and it's still all good, And if you don't know, then I get old, nigga. The sofa. Phone bill about 2 gs's black. No need to worry, my accountant handles that. And my whole crew is lounging. Celebrating every day, no more public housing. Thinking back for my 1 room shack. Now my mom pimps a act with mix on her back. And she loves to show me off. Of course, smiles every time my face is up in the sauce. We used to fuss when the landlord dissed us, no heat. Wonder why Christmas missed us. Birthdays was the worst
[03:11:01] Unknown:
I love you, freaks. I'll see you on Thursday for a rabbit hole recap, and I'll see you next Bitcoin Tuesday for this little dispatch episode 13. We're gonna have the Ronin Dojo guys in. It's gonna be a good fun time. Love you all. Stay humble. Stack stats.
Introduction and pizza review
Discussion about the Bitcoin Tuesday celebration and Citadel Dispatch
Discussion about the bullishness of Bitcoin and the recent shareholder letter from a billionaire
Discussion about the design of Bitcoin and the potential for it to pump forever
Limited time opportunity to buy Bitcoin
The power law and the 80/20 mix
The urgency to buy Bitcoin
The future of routing infrastructure
The difference between an end user and a routing node operator
The challenges of relying on Tor for routing nodes
Liquid vs Lightning Network
Taproot and its impact on Lightning Network
Engagement and giveaways
Discussion about Ethereum being centralized
Conversation about the importance of RTL (Ride The Lightning) software
Mention of Suheb's wife and their work on RTL