Citadel Dispatch

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Had the pleasure of joining P & Q from Bitcoin Magazine on their show. We ripped it in person in my studio.

Video Version: https://youtu.be/gpWEyyS7bKo

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[00:00:01] Unknown:

So   Welcome to my studio.  

[00:00:03] Unknown:

It's gorgeous.  

[00:00:05] Unknown:

Let's let's talk Bitcoin Park for a second because this is   an absurd thing. Is it? Like, this is just SoHo House for Bitcoin or something.   It's better than SoHo House though. Right? Like, is that was that an offensive statement? No. No. No. I meant I meant it as a compliment to you guys. Like, what you guys are trying to build here is truly remarkable. I mean, this   double house situation.  

[00:00:27] Unknown:

So we yeah. We yeah. I mean, we joke around being, like, similar to Soho House and that   you have memberships and   you have private spaces. You can work. You can meet.   You can collaborate.   We can podcast. Party. You can podcast. We have podcast studios all over.   I think the big difference with between us and and Soho House, the way I think about Bitcoin Park is that Bitcoin Park is really a community initiative.   So it's primarily for   supporting Bitcoin and grassroots Bitcoin adoption and supporting the local community in the area,   rather than,   like, a massively profitable global business.  



[00:01:10] Unknown:

Fair. So, like, breakeven or even if Rob's just bleeding a little bit, we're good with that? No. We can,  

[00:01:16] Unknown:

you know,   incentives are good. Like, it'd be nice to have a nice sustainable profit at the park, obviously.   I'm not pretending it's like a nonprofit initiative. But,   at its core at its core, it's a community initiative.   We're gonna have dev workshops here. We're right next to the 2 schools.   The 2 colleges, Vanderbilt and Belmont. We're, like, 2 blocks away from each.   Lot of workshops, education,   private events, public events, the meetup,   bring in local businesses to   sell their wares for Bitcoin. I mean, we had a cocktail bar here accepting Bitcoin,   family coffee shops, stuff like that.  



[00:01:55] Unknown:

When you say family coffee shop, what does that mean? Literally, the whole family works there. So it's a it's a separate business from the Des Moines Park?  

[00:02:02] Unknown:

Yeah. So there's there's 3 local coffee shops that we've been working with, and we have,   you know so I like to call we have 2 buildings here. Right? I like to call it the campus. Right? The Bitcoin Park campus.   In the other building, there's a fully functioning coffee shop that just, like, came with the property.   So we just stumbled into this coffee shop with a full espresso machine. Like, that's a really expensive espresso machine. It's like a $15,000 espresso. Wait. They they just left the espresso machine behind? No. No. They fucking bought it as part of the building. It's, like, included. It's in it was included in the deal. They they wanted   to leave us as many things as bought. Like, these chairs we're sitting on were left with with from the previous tenants.  

This table we brought, but it's, like, one of the few things we actually brought to the park.   It was in Rod's garage previously.   But, anyway, we had a fully functioning coffee shop.   But, like, we're not trying to run a coffee business, but we enjoy coffee. So what do we what do we decide to do? We reached out to 3 different local coffee shops, all family owned operations.   They come in. They man the coffee shop during our events. They supply us bags of coffee for throughout the week when members are here, and they're working and whatnot.   And one of the families   is straight up, they have, you know,   they have they their children run the whole operation. They roast the beans. They do everything.  

And   none of these coffee shops were Bitcoiners ahead of time.   So they came in. We're like, we just wanna support local business. We have this new money called Bitcoin,   and we got them hooked up to accept Bitcoin, and and now they're slowly getting orange filled.  

[00:03:45] Unknown:

It's pretty cool. That's epic. Yeah. You guys are   fulfilling the mission of Bitcoin Park.   The one you just learned about 30 seconds ago Yes. In this conversation. Yes. Got it. Almost as if he curated that story to fulfill and come full circle from the mission he shared originally.  

[00:04:02] Unknown:

So, like, back in the day, we had   a lot of these, like, Bitcoin embassies, like, in 2014 and stuff pop up all around the world.   And a lot of them just weren't sustainable. They didn't, like, survive. What what like, where was an embassy? What did it have? Like,   I was not in Bitcoin in 2014. I was in So we had one in New York, you know, that I wasn't involved with, but that existed in New York. And they had, like, an ATM. They had hardware wallets on display, stuff like that.   But it was mostly just a storefront.   Interesting. They had these things called,   I forgot what they called it, but it was,   certain days you could go there and you could trade Bitcoin peer to peer. They had, like, a little stand. Someone would stand up there and they would, like, shout orders, like, like, the pit. Wait. Are you serious? Yeah. That's incredible. Wait. Was this, like, a LARP? Like but a LARP in the best possible way. Like, people would literally stand in the pit and be like,   and then I don't know. I was never there for it, but I I knew about it. It was it was all the way downtown Wall Street. And I don't know if peep if you guys know New York, but, like, if Mhmm. I had no reason to ever really be in that area.  

It's got it's kinda like a whole separate part of the city. I'm gonna choose to interpret that as preempted.   Exactly how it went. But there was one in Montreal that I went to that the bull Bitcoin guys,   before bull Bitcoin existed, we're running like Francis is running that one. I think it still exists.   The Montreal one was interesting because when I was   it must have been   2014 or 2015.   We were at a wedding in Montreal with my family,   and they at that point, they thought I was just a crazy young kid that was into this, you know, fake money   on the Internet. And they saw, like, the Bitcoin storefront.  

And, like, that was what gave it credibility. They were like, they were like, oh, he's not crazy. I was like, oh, thanks, ma. Yeah. Like, you we like, you didn't even anyone could open a storefront. Like, how did that how did that create the credibility? You I mean, you could have literally just paid someone ahead of time. They're like, yo, just put up signage in front of this for 24 hours. But, anyway, my point is it's not really a new idea, but we are seeing a resurgence in it. And we're also seeing a resurgence in the idea of merchants accepting Bitcoin, and both were kind of false starts in 2014, 2015.   And I think this time, we actually have some real momentum. And I think with the park, what's really key is that that we do have, you know, this a more sustainable model, which is, you know, annual dues for a set amount of members, only a 100 members.  

And they they make the park sustainable. And, also, just   this bear market is different than all the other bear markets. There's there's still a lot of sustained interest. You know? You're actually able   to, you know, run one of these things without completely bleeding money.  

[00:06:45] Unknown:

I wanna unpack,   you know, that idea that it was a false start.   So the last time you saw transactions happening as merchants started adopting.   And was what was the sentiment then   throughout   Bitcoin, Twitter, throughout just Bitcoin in general,   was that the moment where   it was over exuberance   and not a lot of humility and work being done? Or were there just mistakes being made, bad attempts,   poor projects  

[00:07:17] Unknown:

that led to the ultimate failure. So I Wait. Before you answer that, because I know our audience is desperate to know, what were you wearing   when this happened?   Who were you wearing, I should say? And what what year was this?  

[00:07:31] Unknown:

When I walked walked past Montreal.  

[00:07:34] Unknown:

Sure. I mean, I I I guess when you as you recount this story, please let us know whether you were wearing, like, Louis Vuitton. Definitely need a hat update. Like, walk me through your hat each time. I have no idea what I was wearing.  

[00:07:47] Unknown:

He's lying. I plead the 5th. Alright.   Alright.   But,   no. I mean, the difference with the merchant adoption   back then was it was it was mostly BitPay,   which,   you know, had made horrible decisions as a company since then,   to say the least. It was mostly BitPay signing up like big names. So they would sign up like AT and T, and they'd be like, AT and T accepts Bitcoin. And everyone on Twitter and Reddit would go crazy. Reddit was bigger back then. Bitcoin Talk, IRC.   You know, the channels were a little bit different. Bitcoin Twitter was didn't really get off the ground hard until, like, 2017, but it existed.   And, like, people would get super, super fucking excited about this new major corp accepting Bitcoin.  

But, like, the corp wasn't really accepting Bitcoin. They were just   integrating BitPay and then receiving dollars on the back end, and BitPay was presumably, you know, giving them some kind of sweetheart deal to get it because the press releases were good for BitPay,   perceived good for Bitcoin.   So there was no real buy in from the corpse, and they weren't holding Bitcoin. They were just immediately converting it to Fiat.   Another issue   that I   think, another issue is we obviously didn't have lightning.   And, you know, the lightning privacy discussion is very nuanced discussion. Like, it's not it shouldn't be considered like a private privacy   panacea. Like, it's not a perfect solution.  

But on the sender side, when you're sending with lightning, you do get some   all things equal, you get some privacy improvements.   Specifically, it's hard for the recipient to know, you know, which Bitcoin funded that transaction.   So you don't have that liability that's attached,   that data liability, that trail of Bitcoin history that's attached to it. So if you notice,   a lot of the newcomers I mean, obviously, we have BTC pay service since then, which is massive. I mean, we have a sovereign way for merchants to accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.   But if you see the newcomers like Ibex and Strike,   they're going lightning only. They're not accepting on chain. And because they're not accepting on chain, they don't have to deal with situations of you not paying the right amount. They don't have to do deal with situations where blocks are full and the confirmation isn't happening right away. They don't have to deal with situations where   they might feel compelled to use a chain surveillance tool because they have this whole history there.  

So I think   from that side,   you know, lightning being at and, obviously, like, lightning is not perfect. I think there's still a lot of work to be done. But on that side, it it really sets us up in a more positive foundation. But on top of the whole thing, really should be,   I wanna see merchants   accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.   Ideally, I wanna see them do it in a completely sovereign way.   But even if they use something like Ibex or OpenNode,   hold the Bitcoin afterwards. Hold a portion of the Bitcoin afterwards.   And in that way,   I know me personally, like, I'd be more likely to spend at a merchant   that is partaking in the in the Bitcoin circular pot economy. They're actually holding Bitcoin. They're using Bitcoin to to buy their their goods that they need.  

And I think that's the difference. The difference here is   there's a real push towards this circular economy   rather than   immediate conversion to fiat by Mega Corp. So Microsoft added Bitcoin support.   They didn't really. You know? They were just   BetPay was facilitating us to market, you know,   just sell our sell our coin right at time of purchase. Boom. Done.  

[00:11:24] Unknown:

So going in that route a little bit further,   I wanna sort of hear your experience as somebody who's been deeply associated with the space for so long.   We're in a bear market right now   and it feels very different from the bear market last cycle.  

[00:11:44] Unknown:

Which is your first bear market?   Last cycle was my first bear. I'm just trying to mind my p's and q's.  

[00:11:49] Unknown:

Fair enough. Fair enough. I'll tell you which block my first pie was on.  

[00:11:53] Unknown:

Jesus Christ. You're  

[00:11:55] Unknown:

you're you're everyone listening. Don't do that.  

[00:11:57] Unknown:

So fucking queue is over here. Like, look. This is how much Bitcoin I own. I use a single secret wallet. I use I use this I use this hardware wallet. I use this desktop wallet. Don't do that. For the listeners, never fucking do that. Do not tell anybody   what you do because it opens you up  

[00:12:13] Unknown:

and creates larger attack surface. What Pia is trying to say is when he gets kidnapped and tortured, he will give up my UTXO because because I gave it to him for his 1 night.  

[00:12:23] Unknown:

So Yes. Also that. But I I guess, like,   I'm just very surprised   how   much,   like, fervor and interest there   is in in this cycle even as we are in a bear market. And you mentioned lightning. You mentioned having a a large aspect of that. But I'm curious if you have thoughts just in terms of the,   kind of the cultural   milieu that's that we exist in right now and how that's different from the last cycle as well. Well, I first of all, I'm a strong believer in the the 4 year having cycle.  

[00:12:56] Unknown:

It's crazy because it's planned. Everyone knows it's gonna happen,   but it's still not priced in appropriately. Like, it just   for whatever reason, like, people are fucking idiots.   You know? I I kind of believe the concept of if we have truly free markets, they should be efficient. They should price in everything instantly   or theoretically instantly, but it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. And maybe I I I'm I'm kind of a believer that   as we go further along in the Bitcoin adoption cycle,   the overall cycle,   maybe it does start to get more efficient and more priced in just because   there is this concern that happens every time we have a having that, they're mining death spiral. Will Bitcoin survive the having, you know, all this other stuff? And as time goes on,   obviously, people's conviction in Bitcoin grows and their confidence in Bitcoin grows. So that should edge out to a degree.  

I think, first of all, obviously,   every cycle, more people adopt Bitcoin. So we just have a net absolute number of more Bitcoiners,   period.   I think that number just goes up into the right always pretty much. You know? Obviously, it'll go up and down short term, but long term is just constant adoption increase. Right?   So we have that. The second thing is this is not a typical Bitcoin bear market. This is the first Bitcoin bear market   that exists in a global macro crisis bear market recession type of scenario. Like, we've been in the most   you know, we've been in in arguably the the longest, hardest,   strongest bull market in human history on the macro side   in Bitcoin's existence.  

And this is the first time we've had a bear market where we've not been in that situation. So regardless of your views, if we're in an all out recession,   if we're in a macro downtrend, whatever it is, we're clearly not in the kind of raging bull that we've been in on a macro side for however long because of money printing, whatnot.   So that's the second reason. And I I think I think what happens is you you combine the 2 of those. Right? You have   adoption combined with the fact that we're in, like, a macro crisis mode,   and it comes down to okay. Like, okay. My Bitcoin holdings are down. But, like,   if you hold Netflix, that's, like, down 80% or something crazy. I don't know the exact numbers. Like, Apple's down. Google's down.  

Twitter's down. Like, everything's fucking down. Real estate's like, people are getting scared on real estate.   And at the at the same time, we have all these inflation   concerns. We have all these other concerns. So when you have all these concerns, it's like, okay. Bitcoin is hope. To me, Bitcoin has always been hope. Right? It's something I'm optimistic about. It's something I'm positive about.   It's it's something that's good for our future.   Right? So when you have all this disaster and crisis and bullshit   surrounding you and then Bitcoin is that light, then, of course, people are still gonna be interested when the price is down in this situation. Right? But there's definitely you definitely see a downtick   in terms   of the amount of people active in the space compared to maybe 6 months ago or something like that. Absolutely. Like, there's a significant   there's a significant   drop. But the the the thing is is, like, the people that   people that stick around during these moments   and they don't actually have to be active. If they're just passively stacking,   like, that works just as well. But the people that are are still focused on improving their Bitcoin situation, accumulating Bitcoin, like, those are the people that end up doing the best or the people that stay around during these times.  

Seen it time and time again.   You're an old ass man. Old old ass man. Yeah. No one's older than you, though.  

[00:16:33] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:16:34] Unknown:

No one's older than p. That that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But There's plenty of people older than me. Yeah. I mean, I I'll touch on that. Like,   it doesn't matter what time you when you come into Bitcoin, you'll always think you're late.   And I'll I'll borrow from someone else. I forget who said this, but   the meme, we're still early.   That continues until people are mostly earning Bitcoin rather than buying Bitcoin. If you're buying Bitcoin, you're early. Yeah. I think that's the I think that is such an important point. And even as we were heading up to, you know, 69  

[00:17:06] Unknown:

k.   Nice.   Is   people would would come in and they'd be like, hey. Like, I you know, it's too late. I haven't bought enough or I don't have enough or I shouldn't be buying Bitcoin. And you're absolutely right that until everyone is being paid in Bitcoin, until the expectation   is you're paid in Bitcoin. And when you're paid in US dollars, it's like,   fuck man. Like, I got this job that for whatever reason, like, won't pay me in Bitcoin until we reach that point.  

[00:17:34] Unknown:

We're still early. So let me ask you guys this. Does   the collective get paid in Bitcoin first, or do we start to price our goods in Bitcoin first?   Chicken or egg.  

[00:17:48] Unknown:

So unit of account versus medium of exchange? Yes.   I think unit of account first.   I don't know.   It's definitely not my   like, Murad has that great chart. Where does Murad where does Murad put it? I'm just I think I think they kind of happen at the same time.   It kinda happened at the same time, but in my mind, unit of account comes first just because   I'm   earning mostly Bitcoin right now, but I'm not earning   a 100% of Bitcoin.   And Bitcoin's been my unit of account for a while.   Like, I price everything. Everything's priced in Bitcoin. Right.  

[00:18:37] Unknown:

But, I mean,   I I I'm more meaning in the sense of, like, mass adoption. Like, when is it Right. But so, like, I'm maybe I'm a microcosm  

[00:18:44] Unknown:

of I'm a sample size of 1 of the mass. Right.   So how how would And I take its unit of account first.  

[00:18:51] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:18:53] Unknown:

But it probably isn't. I guess That's our answer. I I guess it probably isn't. I mean, some people some people, like I mean, if you get paid in Bitcoin or whatever,   a lot of people that get paid in Bitcoin,   including myself right now,   my actual   like, the contract is priced in dollars, and it's the Bitcoin at the current US price. So that would point to the other way. Yeah. I don't know. There's there's definitely someone who's gonna be listening to this. It's like, Matt, you're just completely wrong. And I just I felt like it was a 100% gotcha question. So whoever you are, you're right.   I'm wrong. Bitcoin is gonna become the money of the world regardless. I don't really care which one comes first.  

But I think we all agree   that,   pretty much most people agree that the store value comes first. That Bitcoin is treated as,   a wealth preserving, wealth accrual mechanism before it's considered medium of exchange or unit of account.  

[00:19:49] Unknown:

Okay. So   it was a very eloquent answer.   I wanna shift topics and talk about   the   specifically around food. I know that you've been,   like, you know, significantly involved in a beef initiative. You've been doing some amazing work.  

[00:20:06] Unknown:

This is not water, by the way. This is mezcal. That's right. That's right. Who who who brought the mezcal? Oh, we do have water too.   I think Hugh brought the mezcal. Piece of shit.  

[00:20:16] Unknown:

He brought the mezcal. I don't drink, so this is gonna be a really fun  

[00:20:20] Unknown:

mezcal artist and all. You want water? Yeah. Can I have water? We're having our our producers is giving us water right now. Thank you. Hello. The incredible,  

[00:20:29] Unknown:

the only,   the undeniable   mills.   That burned so good. This is Fiji Water. It was collected by orphans.   Their tiny hands can fit between the rocks. Okay. I sidetracked you. What was your question?   I wasn't   done. Orphans.   Orphans mine the best water and also the best Bitcoin. Okay. So here's my question.   There's this there's a level of kind of   fascination with the food supply around Bitcoin. Alright. Right? So he here's my question.   There's a level of hypocrisy   significant amount of hypocrisy that exists within Bitcoin around food.   I have been   shocked.  

Nay,   appalled   that people are not more willing to adopt   insects   as a food source. Look, here's the deal. Here's the deal.   I feel like there this is actually a serious question. I feel like there is this   anti insect   focus   because   the WEF which fuck those people  

[00:21:39] Unknown:

had been trying to push insects as a food source for very long. I'm so sorry. They like Pete discovered that he can, like, own the niche of the pro insect,  

[00:21:48] Unknown:

Bitcoiner? No. Look. Here's the deal. Look. Look. He's like, no one else is doing it right now. He's wide open for the taking. Hey, man. No. I gotta be the socialist quoiter. He's we're we're gonna we're gonna cut all this out. Look. He he We're definitely not cutting this out. Yeah. And we're not cutting this out. It all stays. You know? This all stays.   Why do you think there is such pushback against the idea of insect protein   as a food source? And the I say this within the context of things like lobster, crab   used to be considered garbage food. Yeah. They would, like, feed that to the slaves and Exactly. And for very good reason. Of the cows. Lobsters and crabs, they literally eat human shit off of the ocean floor in the bays that humans And shrimp. I mean, this is just anti shellfish that doesn't No. No. No. It's pro bug. You No. No. Look. Don't this is the man who eat dog food live on air. That was disgusting. It was so good. It was so good. Okay. So so here's my take.  



[00:22:44] Unknown:

I'm a pragmatic person.   I believe everyone should have the freedom to choose whatever   they want to put in their body.   I think a lot of the concerns over this insect   food   thing is that it's being almost   Being forced. It's it's being prepared to be forced upon people. 100%. And I think it will be forced on lower class people. Just like lobster was. So   just yeah. So I   I think   what I want to see is I wanna see as many people as possible have   access   to   good food, good nutritious food,   and have choice about what they actually consume.   And I think Bitcoin as a tool of individual empowerment   on the wealth   and   spending side   is key to that   plan, but also   like, a key key to that mission, but also is supporting local   family farms and ranches that are doing proper sustainable practices, doing regenerative agriculture. They're not introducing chemicals to their soil and to their to their to their animals.  

So you actually have, like, really good quality food. And we've gone away from that. Like, the the fiat incentives, the overregulation   has resulted in this corruption of our food supply where the majority of food that people eat is just absolute fucking garbage.   Now   where it looks like we're going is we're gonna have similar absolute garbage. It's just gonna be   built with bug protein.   Right? And I and what I would say is we should just move away from the absolute garbage period.   When is when is this episode going up?   This is a perfect time to show the beef initiative that's gonna be in Georgia.  

It's gonna be,   in Bluffton, Georgia at White Oak Pastures, which are one of the largest regenerative agriculture,   ranches operations in the country.   September,   like, the 2nd week of September.   And if you go to beefinitiative.com,   you can go to that, and I recommend,   people consider it. I went to the beef initiative,   in Colorado. It was an absolutely special experience.   It was really cool. You got to meet all these family ranchers.   We taught them something about Bitcoin. They taught us about food and ranching.   It was a true honor to participate in that. It's a really cool   cool movement.  

Basically, empowering the rancher, empowering the consumer, bringing them together. I think if I was gonna distill beef initiative in one word, it'd be coordination.   Just bringing empowered individuals together, coordinating them,   and helping, you know, just neighbors helping neighbors. It's just really fucking cool. And doing that. And   you can just have fun eating your bug protein. But I'll just I'll just No. No. Me and my family will consume high quality  

[00:25:39] Unknown:

high quality animal protein. As someone who has I'm gonna come over for dinner at the Odell. Yeah. Not not peas. As someone who has,  

[00:25:47] Unknown:

been lucky enough to   benefit from the generosity of the Odell's,   I will continue to eat your incredible,   high quality   beef initiative protein.   But you've you actually have kind of   succinctly   given me an answer, which is the pushback is not based   on  

[00:26:06] Unknown:

the Do you ever watch that movie   where they have the train and they're going around Yeah. In the ice age or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. And, like, the rich people are eating the good stuff. And then And then it's like all the poors are eating bug protein. And they don't know they're eating bug protein until they revolt. And then they see it, and then they revolt even harder. Right? 100%. That's kind of where we're going. No. What no. No. But but I think just  

[00:26:27] Unknown:

I think you make a really good point, which is the the power or the the thing that is so compelling about the beef initiative   is it's   connecting   consumers of high quality protein   directly with the producers of high quality protein and and disintermediating   that process. Because right now, in America, like, if you're buying   protein, if you're buying meat   in a in a in most stores Supermarket. Yeah. In a supermarket,   You it has gone through so many fucked up levels of,   like, this just Byzantine production process,  

[00:26:59] Unknown:

and it's not high quality protein. And so I think that the They'll, like, take the cow in America. They'll, like, ship it to China for processing. Like, ship it back. Exactly. Even, like, the   and we see this so much in our society   is even things like the,   butcher's box, right, which is supposedly targeted at people that care more about,   their food their food supply and whatnot. Like, that comes from fucking Australia.   Like, they make it seem like artisanal,   you know, quality beef or whatever. But it's like, those are Australian cows  

[00:27:31] Unknown:

shipped to your door and packaged and shipped to your door. And they are super fresh when you get them 6 weeks later.  

[00:27:38] Unknown:

That was me being facetious. Yeah. Exactly. But I I I would I would   there's something to be said about, you know, we are trying to build a robust system in Bitcoin. Right?   A robust system   that   you can rely on, and and you can have confidence building,   you know, building your future with your family on this system. Right? And when we look at all of our other systems, we have a, you know,   a corruption of systems   throughout our whole lives. And one of the key ones is is our food our food supply   and how we get food and how we judge which food is good and and and and and how we consume that food.   And a very easy way   of improving that situation is to get back to the basics,   have sustainable local economies.  

Right? And we go back to the circular economy. So   beef initiative is really interesting because Bitcoin is an aspect there. Like, we are   helping provide. So I'm more integral in the beef initiative process because,   I mean, we have mills here. Like, we we're creating the Tennessee beef initiative. Right? So they have the Texas beef initiative. Tennessee beef initiative is gonna be the first one outside of Texas.   But the goal is for this to be global.   I'd like, as you know, like like I said, there's gonna be a Georgia event.   So, like, I've been getting I've been getting heavily involved, and one of the key things is is so not only does the beef initiative provide education and coordination, but there's also a full tech stack. Because a lot of these ranchers, like,   they understand personal responsibility.  

They understand   the need,   for tools that protect them.   But they have a full time job, and that's running the farm. Right? And they don't know how to set up a website or accept payments or ship out things.   So there's a full tech stack that's provided that not only lets them accept Bitcoin.   That's optional. It also lets them accept fiat. Right? It gives them that full direct to consumer stack. And then on top of that, you also have the exposure if they choose to join the beef initiative   and be a part of this, you know, global community that cares about   their food reliability and their food quality.  



[00:29:49] Unknown:

Makes sense. I'm sold. What I'm hearing is that   when I have my insect milk farm  

[00:29:55] Unknown:

You will have other Bitcoiners who wanna eat insect milk, and you will have your own circular economy. And the Odell's, the Q's, the mills,   we will have our own circular economy where we trade, buy, eat, and sell beef. I like to think that all of  

[00:30:11] Unknown:

Q's family, their first and last name is Q, so they're just the Q.   Yeah. 100%. 100%. No. No. That that I'll just say Yeah. That'd be just great to go over for dinner. It's like, the queues, they're so nice. You know, they're here.  

[00:30:23] Unknown:

Papa q,   mama q, brother q. Q1, q3,   q4. Yeah. Yeah. Now all the looking aside that that I that I'm seeing is,  

[00:30:32] Unknown:

yeah. The idea of disintermediating food production. I mean, you're wrong about the insect thing.   I will not be silenced. I mean But it's not as I would say that, you know, like, Bitcoin is we have a very diverse group of stakeholders.   Bitcoiners have all walks in lives. I mean, we have vegan Bitcoiners. Right? Like, it's not like all Bitcoiners   are necessarily pro beef. But I think I think most Bitcoiners are   pro quality food that's not, you know, corrupted by bullshit. So I wanna unpack that because  

[00:31:02] Unknown:

I fully support   the seed oil disrespectors   and everyone who is anti seed oil. Very necessary.   We're just this anti seed oil community that also likes Bitcoin. Okay. Continue. But no. No. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what I'm the point I wanna make is   seed oils is only   one part of the recipe that has these preservatives in it.   So, like, I'm just gonna call out someone like Joe Consorti who, like, will talk about seed oils and then literally post a picture with a monster energy drink. And I feel like there's a lot of No. No. No. The last time he did that, he he He crossed out water. He crossed out monster and wrote water. You're right. You're right. So that made it water. But  

[00:31:40] Unknown:

that that Of course. I'm trying to make is, like, there's so many other things that have these I mean, we have, like, a Bud Light Seltzer here. Right? Totally. It's like you guys are the Bud Light Seltzer as drink alcohol? The Bud Light Seltzer was, like, the light compliment to the mezcal. Yeah. The garbage con the garbage compliment.   What is in Bud Light Seltzer? Water, cold fermented cane sugar, natural flavors, cane sugar, citric acid, sodium citrate, malted rice.   So not as bad as other things. You're telling me that's, like, better than the seed oils that you It's definitely better than the seed oils. I think I'm not a nutritionist. Just disclosure.   Disclosure. Consult your local nutritionist.  

No. I would,   I think look. There's there's there's, like, look. You're smoking like the jewels. Like, there's plenty of places for us to improve, but I've I've noticed this with, like, the Bitcoin privacy discussion.   It's, like, don't let perfect be the enemy of of of good. Yeah. And, like, we can improve   slow and steady. Every little improvement does help. So you don't   like, I probably shouldn't be an alcoholic.   Right? Like, I'm willing to admit that. Like, I probably drink way too much.   But I enjoy it, and life is short.   But, like, at least I'm not, you know, eating the bugs or eating seed oils, and I'm helping Woah. Woah. Woah. Local family farms,   you know, be sustainable   and flourish and and and then I get the benefit of good food. You fed me that c seed oil filled meal  

[00:33:03] Unknown:

in the box.  

[00:33:05] Unknown:

What feed? What what box?   Red hot chocolate beverage. What meal? Oh, yeah. I did. Well So wait wait. You know, they don't have good food at at at Nissan Stadium. So what are you supposed to do? We're just gonna starve?   I guess we should have brought our own box lunch is what we really should have done, but it was our first time in the suite. No. That was that was that was fucked up. You guys both fucked up. I was not able to join. I'm sorry. You should have clearly brought your own cow. I don't know if you can Into the box, slaughtered it last. I don't know if you can do that. Built out a a fire and then roasted it. You definitely can't do that one.  

[00:33:40] Unknown:

I mean, we lit some fires in that box. If you're doing anything less, you're not a big winner. But I did look at the menu  

[00:33:47] Unknown:

because I was involved with ordering because I just can't help myself. I was also really hungry. I'm so glad. So And we ordered the, like,   what was perceived as potentially the best quality stuff. Like, what we had, like, pulled chicken and pulled pork was like and it was just, like, in a bowl.   Right? Like, we could've gotten chicken fingers that were fried in seed oils, french fries that were fried in seed oils. That.   Yeah. There was, like, we could've done worse. I think for stadium food, we did pretty good.   Once again, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Okay. I'm just being an asshole here. I'm gonna ask one more question, and then I promise I will shut up about insect milk. Yeah. This is supposed to be a Bitcoin conversation. Yeah. We're but I'm Oh, I'm so mad right now. I'm not mad. No. Beef initiative.com.  



[00:34:25] Unknown:

Yeah. Google. You should definitely Georgia. Don't use Google. Yeah. You really should check it out. It's fucking awesome. It's super important.  

[00:34:33] Unknown:

Back to my bullshit. There's only a 100 tickets. They're going fast.  

[00:34:38] Unknown:

If I were to have I used to have Giant Hissing Madagascar cockroaches as pets. What?   If I served a meal   that was   homegrown.  

[00:34:49] Unknown:

Of course, you did.  

[00:34:52] Unknown:

Homegrown   He definitely has hand fed artisanal  

[00:34:57] Unknown:

insects. I went to a place like that. Would would you would you eat them? I went to I went to a place like that in New York. There it was like it was called the Black Ant, and it was it was literally like a high end place that incorporated bugs into the food. Yeah. But then it's They should've got shut down by the health authority. Absolutely.  

[00:35:12] Unknown:

That is that. No. No. That's all shit. It was like, oh, here's a $20 margarita with, like, fucking ants on the rim. I'm, like, picking out the ants. No. No. No. That's all shtick. It's all bullshit.  

[00:35:21] Unknown:

Here's my He just wants to know if This is literally what you just proposed. Let me let me rephrase now, Pete, because it is it is exactly what you proposed. The the difference is would you eat it if pee served it? No. No. That's I'm not I'd probably be less likely to eat it if you served it. We're gonna call this up. The point is  

[00:35:39] Unknown:

the point is   if it was actually, like, these are high quality insects that are fed like human   quality food, and it's super high quality protein.  

[00:35:51] Unknown:

He is that guy who will you will go to his house. He will serve you chicken.   Then I'll be like, surprise, motherfucker. It's fucking bugs. Yeah. That's happening. Literally. Never eat anything besides the chicken. Shouldn't, like, trick people into eating bugs. Gonna trick people into eating bugs. That you're part of the problem. Before it hits your lips, you're gonna know. I'm gonna I'm gonna call I'm gonna call it on the bugs. I appreciate how how receptive you were to to p's questioning.  

[00:36:16] Unknown:

Please don't cast that judge judgment on me. If you want if you like what p's talking about, you can go to bug initiative.com.   We'll buy that.  

[00:36:25] Unknown:

Look. I'm just trying to be a determinant here. If you eat lobster, you're eating fucking bugs that he hates. Okay. So then don't eat lobster. Like, eat high quality animal protein. That's the answer.  

[00:36:35] Unknown:

Yeah. There you go. Lobster is super overpriced too. You're basically just as a vehicle for butter.  

[00:36:41] Unknown:

Exactly.  

[00:36:42] Unknown:

Alright. Shifting topics. So what we're talking about? There was something you just said that I wanted to use that as the segue, but you said don't Google things. Can we talk a little bit about data and privacy and how reckless   our generation has been?   I've long felt like our generation was gonna be that 1st generation where when the president of the United States was our age, there was so much shit in their closet. But because they posted it all on Instagram and Facebook, like Oh, we haven't gotten there yet. That's probably gonna happen. But but it will eventually. But, like, what's happening? What's gonna happen is the true psychopaths are gonna be  

[00:37:16] Unknown:

our our our   our already our politicians, and it's gonna become even more so because, like, every normal person's gonna have a 1,000,000 skeletons in their closet, and it's gonna be like that one buttered up person   who   did even more fucked up things, but they just didn't post on the Internet is the one who's gonna be fucking elected. Really   high quality poor. That was good. Thank you.   I,   you know, it's it's not a good situation.   And I I thought I thought that Snowden when Snowden was, like, 2013, I thought Snowden,   revelations was gonna wake people up. It really did nothing.  

I mean, it woke me up. It woke some people up,   but it didn't really wake that many people up.   We have never been in this situation before.   We   live in a completely digital can you stop grinding your chair into  

[00:38:13] Unknown:

fucking Matt O'Dell Matt O'Dell has been generous enough of his time to literally shut down with this. My Jared. It keeps hitting the top of me. He ran into the table twice. Dude, this is more offensive to me personally  

[00:38:26] Unknown:

than my   insect milk   apocalypse   agenda. Continue, please.   Jesus fucking Christ.  

[00:38:33] Unknown:

Get your shit together, q. Look, we've never we've never lived in a world that that is this digital.   Right? And we've never dealt with the repercussions of this type of digital panopticon, and it's coming from all sides because   we have these massive global corporations   that are basically built on data monetization.   And then   we have countries and governments that are also surveilling on us, and they're working together in a lot of lot of times. It's they're either working together intentionally. Can you not draw on the table   with a Sharpie?  

I know.   We are they're sometimes working together,   and sometimes they're pressured. Like, we saw on the Snowden docs, like, a lot of the   a lot of the tech companies were were pressured, and they had to sign a   a gag order. They had to sign an NDA that said they couldn't talk about being forced   to give up all this data.   So, I mean, when you start to when you start to look around, it's way bigger than Bitcoin. Right?   It's every thought you've had in terms of a Google search.   It's every location you've been in terms of Google Maps.   It's,   Pete,   we have a really nice, like, oak table in this   very nice podcast studio, and Pete took a Sharpie while I was telling you all this. And he wrote, if you eat lobster,   you fuck lobsters,   which I really appreciate while we're recording. And I'm trying to talk about an important topic that is digital privacy.  

But yeah. We're such pieces of shit. You're welcome, America.   But it's a problem. Like, if you if if you walk down your street,   9 out of 10 houses will have Ring cameras. Right? And what are Ring cameras? Ring cameras are   Internet connected cameras   that send all that information back to Amazon servers   that's collected,   shared with cops and police without warrants.   It's put in your permanent file. It can be indexed. It can be used against you at will.   1984   compared to where we are today, like, the world in 1984 thought is a fucking utopia in comparison to today. Today is, like   in 1984,   the theory was that the government was gonna force you to put wire taps in your home.  

But in 2022   2, the reality is that people buy the wire taps. They go through the trouble of installing them, and then they brag to their friends about how great the wire taps are, and they should they should also install them in their house.  

[00:41:08] Unknown:

It is fucking crazy.   Like, I remember reading 1984 back when I was a child in the year 18 96.   And it was terrifying to me   that idea. And you are absolutely correct. The in the modern age, it is absolute.  

[00:41:28] Unknown:

Matt Odell. That was a that was a really good idea. That was a really, really good idea. For our listeners, Matt Odell just took the  

[00:41:36] Unknown:

Sharpie away from me, which I wrote, if you eat lobsters, you fuck lobsters, and threw it across the room from me. I will go get it in a minute. I'll crawl into the table and retrieve it. But,   yeah. You you're absolutely right. I mean,   it's   unfathomable   to me   that people are so willing   to embed   listening devices   and   video devices in their lives in a way that not only affects them. Maybe one thing if it was a question of, sort of, like, hey. I'm willing to take on this burden   because I hate myself.   But things like ring cameras,   they're just facing out to the street and   they affect everyone. And it's crazy to me that that's just totally normalized at this point. We essentially rolled out  

[00:42:23] Unknown:

a full surveillance   network of small suburban neighborhoods across   the United States.   And   it was done by people   buying them and installing them.   You fucking paid for it. You literally were like, hey, let me pay It happened like a matter of years. And, like, there was actually situations where Amazon would strike a deal with the police department, and then the police department would go around and give people free ones. Yeah. She'll be like fuck up. Yeah. 1 100% true. Because they're like, do you want your neighborhood to be safer? Like, then you should put a camera out. If you're not doing anything wrong, like, what should you be worried about? Like, it'll stop criminals. Also, put 1 in your bedroom just facing your bed.   So my point is is we've just never been in this situation before, and my optimistic take is   we're all gonna get burned so fucking hard. And then after we get burned and we touch the stove and we realize, okay. Well, we shouldn't be doing this, then we'll start improving as a society. And every time you see every time these data leaks happen, every time these   compromises happen,   more and more people get burned. More and more people that know people that got burned got burned. And, hopefully,   we have the education. We have the tools available for people to opt out,   and they will choose to opt out as as they realize that need. And that's my optimistic take, but it involves a lot of pain a lot of pain in the short term. So,  

[00:43:41] Unknown:

I mean, do you really think that that's the outcome that that's the direction we're gonna go? Because I feel like as somebody who is personally It's the optimistic take. It's the optimistic take. Okay. So what is your real take? Because what I will say No. No. That's the optimistic take and the pessimistic take is we're fucked.  

[00:43:55] Unknown:

Like, those those are the 2 takes. Yeah. I mean,  

[00:43:59] Unknown:

because I I I feel like I I I was a I am a act contrary to what you may believe. I'm a very optimistic person.   But having been the victim of   a a number of very significant   hacks,   I just don't see people reacting   with anything other than this sort of,   just   wide eyed bemusement. Like, I guess I mean, I guess this is the real world we live in. Like, the government loves us. And if they say that these things happen, it's just sort of a part of life. It's it's all just part of life. I I I  

[00:44:36] Unknown:

am shocked by a new action. Let me use let me use 2 examples. So,   or I can use 3 examples.   The first example is   China. They're way ahead of us.   There's a there's a a large growing group of Chinese nationals that have increasingly realized the need   for   better privacy tools and empowering themselves and opting out of this Panopticon   because their lives have been so destroyed,   over surveillance. Because it came hard and fast for them. Like, they can really feel it.   In America, I'll give my other two examples.   Know, we're a very politically divided country. On one side,   we're seeing   the move to try and restrict gun ownership   and people realizing   the need for privacy on that front.  

And it will get even more. Like, we saw so we saw in, like, California.   We saw,   in California, they you know,   fortunately, in Tennessee, this is we have a constitutional carry state, but in California, you have to register if you carry a handgun.   Well, supposedly, that list of people and their addresses of people that carry   got leaked, and it was publicly available for everybody.   Right? So if you care about individual sovereignty and you care about gun rights and you care about the ability to own your own firearms and practice that right,   you immediately realize the danger there. And and the and the firearm community has been very outspoken about they don't want firearm registries. They don't want lists of of owners of guns, and and they were proven right   in this case in California. And I think a lot of people woke up to it when that happened.  

On, so that's, like, on the right, the political American right. And then on the political American left,   now that Roe v Wade was overturned, we're seeing   conversations.   You know, there was a case   with with a woman and her daughter where her Facebook messages that were not encrypted   were used to prosecute her in an abortion case. Right?   Now you might disagree with the different aspects of both of those examples politically,   but I I think it's pretty obvious to people that   as people's rights get infringed on using this digital Panopticon, as they get burned,   they realize the need. Now   signal is a very inch I'll do a 4th example. Signal's a very interesting   trade off balance. I think they've struck pretty good with it. I mean, signal, if you're not aware, to the audience is a encrypted messaging service.  

The   hardcore privacy advocates don't really like it because   it still requires a phone number,   and it has this other feature that I'm about to mention.   But signal   stakeholders   would say   that they made certain   trade offs to make it more convenient and more approachable as a platform so more people had message privacy, that people were sending encrypted messages, and they weren't leaking all this information all over the place.   And but one of the trade offs that signal made is   if someone in your contacts,   add signal, you get notified that they add signal.   Now I'm kind of a crazy person. I've switched phones many times, used the Googled phones all over the place, but I've always kept my contact list.  

So I have this, like, ever growing I, like, I'm I think I have, like, 3000, 4000 people in my contact list.   And during the Black Lives Matter riots in America,   signal usage went up, like, create I was getting notified left and right by by people joining signals. Right? And it was like, okay. So they they were out there. They were protesting.   They felt like they were being surveilled. They felt the need. They sought out this tool.   Right? So it will keep happening, and we do see it happen. It's just gonna happen way slower than people think, and just people are just gonna have to get burned like crazy. But I I still think the optimistic take is as people get burned,   they realize the need. And then our job,   if we're aware of this already,   and we're trying to improve the situation, improve the status quo, help,   you know, make sure that the world our children and our grandchildren live in is a better world, is to make sure the education's there and the tools are there. So when they realize the need,   they're ready to go, and and they can move forward in improving   in improving their own situation.  



[00:49:11] Unknown:

Yeah. That's that's incredibly well put.   Building out the tools   in advance.  

[00:49:17] Unknown:

And I guess,  

[00:49:18] Unknown:

all we can do in the meantime is encourage people to know how to use those tools   and help educate them so that as they need them, they are available. Yeah. And I I would just add  

[00:49:30] Unknown:

to quote Eric Hughes in the cypherpunk manifesto,   1993,   he wrote this,   is there is a massive   disconnect on people when they think about privacy.   And his words were privacy is not secrecy. Privacy is the ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. So I have people tell me all the time, Matt, you're on camera.   You're on voice. You're talking about privacy.   How can you care about privacy? You're talking about privacy.   I'm selectively revealing myself to the world. We are selectively revealing ourselves to the world. The key is consent. The key is not sharing information. You don't have to be a ninja.   The key is I should be in charge of what information is sharing, and there should be consent involved. I should be aware of the trade offs. I should be aware of what data is collected. I should choose which data is used   and when it's used and what I'm getting for it.  

But right now, as the case is, is most people are just completely unaware.   They're leaking tons of information left and right. And oftentimes, that's not just affecting them. It's affecting their neighbors. It's gonna affect their children. It's gonna affect their grandchildren. You send your DNA to a service.   That service essentially has the DNA of your future descendants if they're not born yet,   even if they're not born yet. Yeah. If you get your DNA done right now, you are   leaking critical information about your grandkids and your great grandkids.   Absolutely. Without their consent. They're not even fucking people yet.  



[00:50:52] Unknown:

That's so wild to think because   you're right. If you and your wife unsuspectedly   have each done it, and then later on No. It doesn't even matter if you have done it. And all of your children go for it. But it's worse if it's your They would literally they would know everything about you. Then the whole lineage is just fully completely. I mean, dude, Billy, BlackRock bought out anstery ancestry.com.   Like, you don't They're massive data collection operations. You don't think that they're eventually just gonna go after your your genetic data at some point? And No. They already have. They bought it down. So,   I mean, we're we're talking right now sort of   the  

[00:51:28] Unknown:

doomsday scenario, the pessimistic option where we're all fucked. No. This is the optimistic scenario. Yeah. Well, I No. No. Seriously. This is the optimistic scenario. I under I understand that in the optimistic scenario, this is already happening. An optimist. I I understand. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing this right now. If I was if I didn't think that we couldn't improve,  

[00:51:47] Unknown:

if it was so far gone, I would just be living in the woods. I actually would go so far as to say, you can't be a Bitcoiner without being an optimist.  

[00:51:55] Unknown:

Because you have No. No. No. No. You you have to. You have to believe that there is a point in the future where this is going to get better. No. No. No. No. I disagree. They're like Then what's the point? I think I think that pigeonholing the idea of a Bitcoiner, I think that is a mistake, and I think it does us all a disservice. Their Bitcoin is for everyone, even your deepest and most hated enemies and that is one of the many beauties of Bitcoin. Okay. And   you can be   a deep,   deep pessimist   and believe in Bitcoin because it is the best option   out of a shitty plethora   of options. And you can be that person, and you can be in Bitcoin, and you can run a node, and you can support the network. And you can be   people like us who are more optimistic and are willing to show our faces on camera and have our voice recorded on camera.  

And because we believe that they Your voice is being recorded with microphones.  

[00:52:50] Unknown:

Like, your phone right now is recording everything on top of the recording of this. Hey. Go on. I I wasn't done. The video part. Okay.  

[00:52:57] Unknown:

Yeah. Sure. These are these are details that are uninteresting.   The point is   my pen is also a camera and it is no.   We we can be those people and I think that big Bitcoin is for all of us and I think that that's an important distinction. I think that you don't have to be a specific type of person whether you believe in  

[00:53:15] Unknown:

So I actually think   I actually think I agree with q.   Oh, shit.   Give it to me.   Tell me where I'm wrong. I think I think there's a lot of pessimists   that   find Bitcoin.   Like, I was a pessimist before I found Bitcoin, and then Bitcoin gave me hope and made me an optimist in the future.   Like, being low time Presumably, there are Bitcoiners that are using Bitcoin as digital cash,   and they're essentially high time preference Bitcoiners. It solves a need for them today, which is just   buying things privately,   without censorship   or in a censorship resistant way. We don't wanna talk in absolutes.  

And,   those people, I guess, could be pessimists.   But if you are   long term focused on Bitcoin,   There's a degree of optimism there.   That is like like, why are you I mean, if you're if if you're if you're stacking, if you're accumulating Bitcoin,   you obviously believe that there's some reason you're doing that for the long term.   So there is a degree of   at least personal optimism maybe. Maybe you think the whole world is going to shit,   but, like, it personally empowers you.   I mean, I feel incredibly inspired by Bitcoin. So, like, think about our peers that are not Bitcoiners. Like, I'm so when I when I talk to people that I went to college with, when I talk to people that I went to high school with,   they are   very disenfranchised,   very disillusioned,   very pessimistic   on what the future holds, very pessimistic on what corporate media decides they're gonna be angry at, you know, this week or something.  

They feel like they've gotten a   they've the short stick. Right? Like, they've they've just been destroyed as a generation.   And then if you talk to Bitcoin, it's like of course, we're not talking abs I'm not gonna talk absolutes. But when you talk to Bitcoin, it's like, I feel like just 90% of our peers   that are in Bitcoin are the exact opposite.  

[00:55:21] Unknown:

Yeah. Well  

[00:55:23] Unknown:

So, like, I would never say a 100%   Right. Optimists. Not not a 100%. But a lot.  

[00:55:28] Unknown:

Bitcoin is hope at the end of the day to me. It certainly is for me. I mean, I I would be   and was, like, profoundly depressed about the state of the world before I understood what Bitcoin  

[00:55:40] Unknown:

was. If you're watching this and if you're watching this dumbass interview right now, you're probably an optimist. K.   Like, if you're sitting down, you're like, I'm gonna watch P and Q with Odell.   And I'm gonna spend this time for however long this goes for.   That you're probably an optimist.   And I would say that if you're a pessimist,   first, like and subscribe to P&T Show,   and then comment underneath   comment underneath the video and say I'm a pessimist. Let's see how many there are. I love you, Odell. There you go. Always be chilling.  

[00:56:19] Unknown:

No. No. I I'll I'll I'll I'll accept   it. Alright. So where do we go from here?  

[00:56:25] Unknown:

I kinda wanna ask you a little bit more though about, like, the the selective revealing because Okay. You   you've been in this space and doing it for so long. Like, you have created this sort of digital   presence of who you are.   We just attended a a funeral   of a digital identity.   Are you Who's funeral was that?   I forget his name.   It's it's so easy. You know? Now that he's gone, you just forget it right away. At the at this point, rock star is a a distant and faded memory. But How are you doing with that? Are you still are you still angry?  

[00:57:01] Unknown:

So we hosted   Rockstar is a good friend. I would go as far as saying he's a brother.   He decided he wanted to get rid of his digital identity. Very important   to be able to choose when you wanna cycle through a new identity and what you wanna reveal to the world as we talked about.   I was supportive of that.   Usually, when people have NIMs, they,   you know,   just disappear. They just stop posting from that NIM. NIM is a pseudonym, so it's a name that you choose that is not your legal name. It's not the name you're born with. Like like, he wasn't   like, Pete didn't come out of his mom, and his mom was like, oh my god. He's so beautiful. I'm gonna name him Pete. No. Pete decided that he wanted that name to be his identity.  

I'm pretty sure the same with q, but his whole family might be named q. I'm not sure.   So Rockstar decided to do that, and I was very supportive.   We hosted a physical   celebration of his life   and everything. He's done so much with this space. I had him on I had him on my podcast, it'll dispatch.   We discussed,   you know, what was important to him, like, why this mission was important, why he's doing the funeral,   spent a lot of time and energy on it, read his eulogy, hosted, like, 45 people here at Bitcoin Park.   And then today this was, like, 3 days ago. And then today, he got announced as a speaker at a   conference.  

So,   what what were the phases of grief?  

[00:58:29] Unknown:

Denial,   anger,  

[00:58:32] Unknown:

arguing. I am   wholeheartedly in the anger   in the anger part of the game. And you were still hang you were at anger. Yeah. But that was before he had risen again.   So now now I'm definitely I'm just solidified. We're just cemented in that in in that in that zone.   I'm sorry to hear that. I did the the denial hit me for a little bit. And then It it was Yeah. But I was correct. I was, like, I was pretty sure he wasn't I I was pretty sure. I mean, you call that denial at the time, but I was right. Dude, I mean So it wasn't denial. It was it was a correct gut. It was really  

[00:59:07] Unknown:

you can you can say what you want. I thought it was hilarious. I was watching you deny that he's he's really not he's not gonna not show up. And on the other side of the table, I won't talk to who it was, but they were like, well, we gotta go back to the hotel and, like, you know, we'll tell them we're gonna leave here and go to the go to the wherever we went after it. I was like, okay. So they're bargaining. I've accepted this. Who here is depressed? Yeah. Who's the depressed? But really what happened was q got rugged.  

[00:59:32] Unknown:

I was right.   And it was it was a beautiful moment.   Rockstar has done a lot for the space. I have a ton of respect for him.   I think his work on digital identity   and explaining to people why selective privacy is important is   extremely crucial to everything that that I've been focused on and a lot of us have been focused on.   And just to complete the   to complete the thought and and and to never stop shilling.   If you would like to see him live,   Tab Conf, will be going on in October in Georgia   in Atlanta. It's a great it's a great conference, and, you can go to tabconf.com,   if you like to buy tickets to see a   presumably dead man,   speak about very important topics. Look.  



[01:00:22] Unknown:

People have been saying that Cyborg technology is not nearly far enough along for us to be able to reanimate a corpse, and Rockstar is going to prove you all wrong.   Oh. Okay. Yeah. Ready. Let me ask you a different question, Adele.   I know.  

[01:00:40] Unknown:

Shut up, I tried. Shut up. I tried.  

[01:00:43] Unknown:

But you literally, like, told him you were ready for his question, and then you're like, I'm gonna ask you the question. 100%.  

[01:00:48] Unknown:

That is exactly what happened.  

[01:00:51] Unknown:

Story of my life. That and p are muted. Pretty much sum up my, day to day.  

[01:00:56] Unknown:

Adele, where where will you be during this momentous occasion, the the resurrection?  

[01:01:03] Unknown:

As far as I'm concerned, the resurrection already happened. It happened when the tweet went out. Right? It's a digital identity. Digital identity. It was a digital announcement that he is not dead,   or maybe he was, and it's a resurrection.   So one thing that I think is Are you trying to get me to do, Yes. He's trying to get me to show one more thing. No. We we can just wait till that's more tasteful in the  

[01:01:27] Unknown:

future. So can can I ask the question that I've now since forgotten? I'll allow it, but watch yourself, counselor. It is key to always show, but it's key to keep them tasteful. You know? You know? Like, he's done he's done it, like, very simply, smoothly. It's like good. They don't realize we've collected   money from both the TAB Conference and the initiative. I don't think we have. No. We haven't. No. They're not sponsors. You should have I don't know.  

[01:01:50] Unknown:

It does, like, that is money that's out of my fucking pocket. So just to recap, all 3 shills have not paid any money.  

[01:01:58] Unknown:

Tabconf, beef initiative. Tabconf.com,   beef initiative.com,   sill dispatch.com  

[01:02:03] Unknown:

have not paid money. Oh. All 3 shills. Are you serious? Wait. No. He did he did show that, but there was a 4th. What was the 4th thing I recapped? Oh, bug initiative.com.   Like and  

[01:02:13] Unknown:

subscribe, if I could ever say that word, .com. This yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I assumed you guys hadn't paid yourself money. We have. That would just be dumb. No. We haven't. Yeah. No no money. And I have not received any money for that chill.  

[01:02:26] Unknown:

Fair enough. Fair enough. Nor will you.   It's never gonna happen.   Okay. Okay. Please, ask your question. Is  

[01:02:36] Unknown:

is the future of,   you know,   people's safety as we talked about get the getting burned, the the less so learning digital safety and identity.   I am so sorry yet again for the child that sits to your left  

[01:02:52] Unknown:

viewers. Right. I'm an adult.  

[01:02:57] Unknown:

Is protecting our digital identity? Like, will the every man have to have a name to a degree?   Like, will we get to that point where it's so necessary if you want to have some semblance of Would the every man have a digital identity? Like, no. A   pseudonym. Like, a genuine nim separate to what they have already created once we realize how far we've gone. Yeah. I mean, I I think I think the optimistic case is that people will have many, many  

[01:03:30] Unknown:

right now, you know, we live in a society that mostly,   you know, the state decides your identity system.   And the way you live your life is is is it's it's really hard to use multiple identities,   in a dated I mean, if you wanna talk about   living your life privately, like, try paying your property taxes privately   or having a birth certificate for your child   privately or,   paying your mortgage privately or registering to vote privately. These things are very difficult. Our society is set up to basically create all these data honeypots that you're a ostracized   crazy person if you try and opt out of these different things.  

Like, I personally think it's completely normal for someone to have a kid and not have a state sanctioned birth certificate for. But I think most people right now would say you're fucking crazy if you said that. Right?   So I think we are gonna slowly move to a world where people   it's more commonplace, and it's gonna be people choosing.   People will choose to opt out of that system, choose to have multiple identities until it gets normalized. There's a lot of things that we currently think are normal that were crazy at some point in people   chose to do them. And as more as more people did them,   it became normalized, and it became a a common occurrence.  

Now we need tools to make that more   accessible. Right now,   our most common digital ID is a phone number, and that's, like, insanely centralized. Right? You have people will have a phone number from the,   you know, from the time they get their first phone, which is increasing increasingly younger, which shouldn't be the case either, but that's people's personal decision. They can do that if they want to. And that phone number tracks them through their whole lives. They use it to sign up for services. It's it's, at this point, it's almost more of a Social Security number than the Social Security number is. Right? It absolutely is. And that's like a complete that's obviously a completely centralized system. Most of them you can get a phone number without connecting it to your legal name, but It is very difficult. Yeah. And the the status quo is, like, it's basically full KYC.   Identify yourself with your legal name, provide all your information. That's connected to the phone number. If you use the phone number, then that's connected to all the other information.  

So we need tools   to disintermediate   that. And one of the promising projects is decentralized ID. And I go back and forth on decentralized ID because   the first major use case of decentralized ID, I'm, like, 99% sure will be, like, pure, you know, like, draconian,   dystopian,   and Opticon bullshit. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. It's gonna be like state   states are gonna use the decentralized   ID infrastructure and force it on us. And then we're gonna have a digital ID where and we saw this in the the aftermath of COVID, the COVID response or whatever, where if you wanted to   go into a restaurant,   in New York City or other major cities, you had to provide   you had to provide this pass. You had to provide this connection to your digital to your to your identity.  

And some places, including New York,   had a digital version where it was an app and it had a QR code. And, actually, it was even worse as a privacy focused big corner because it was powered by IBM Blockchain. Oh, sweetie. Just to add on top of that. Right? But where they were essentially wanted to know who was in what establishment, when they were in it, and all attach that to your legal ID. Now they had a lot of issues rolling that out because they didn't have the infrastructure. So I'm a little bit concerned   that,   you know, when when you make when you make   powerful   censorship resistant robust tools,   they're gonna be used by many different people for many different reasons.  

And by design, you can't control how people use them.   But the beginning of decentralized   ID will probably be marked by   these states that wanted to push digital IDs,   but didn't really have the infrastructure chops to do it. But if someone gives them an out of the box solution,   they're like, yeah. Go to the DMV,   scan your driver's I driver's license. And then every time you do anything, we want you to we want you to check-in with this thing so we know where you are, where you're at, what you're spending on, all this different stuff. But, ultimately, the   I actually see a lot of resemblance to decentralized ID in Bitcoin,   where Bitcoin you can use Bitcoin in a fully pro surveillance way.  

All your all your,   transactions are tracked. How much you have is always tracked at a at a moment, but you can also use it in a freedom oriented way without permission. And with decentralized IDs, you have essentially the ability to to spin up what amounts to a   a public private key pair,   which is similar to how Bitcoin works. And and that can be associated to a certain reputation, a certain I identity   that you want, and you can use them selectively. You could spin up as many as you want.   And I think that will become more and more commonplace where, like, people   will essentially have,   have different identities   and   and different organizations,   events,   services,   whatnot,   will not only honor the the state sanctioned identity. Like, if you wanna think of decentralized   ID on a high level, the way I look at it is, okay, so you have this cryptographically   verifiable identity that you can create at will as many as you want.  

We all have those, and we can each endorse each other.   Obviously,   you guys are just letters.   But you could say, like, Matt's a good dude. But also,   Citibank could say that Matt pays his mortgage on time, and the landlord can say that Matt pays his rent on time.   A teacher could say that Matt was a good student or whatever. And different services, different people will respect those different   attestations   of of of your credibility   rather than just, you know, the New York DMV said that Matt lives at this house and pays his taxes. Right?  

[01:09:26] Unknown:

Yeah. Oh, it makes sense.   I'm curious though. Like  

[01:09:30] Unknown:

And that's the optimistic take. I I was gonna say that you you slipped the pessimistic take in there. You brought you brought No. No. That's the opt the optimistic take is it starts   it starts with   draconian Panopticon   surveillance state shit, but then it morphs into freedom   tech at scale.   And the pessimistic take is it just goes to that first step and stays at that first step.   And that every transaction we do is tracked, logged, used against us, every message we send, every location we go to, every photo we take,   every time we answer the door,   every time we go out.  



[01:10:08] Unknown:

I mean, I think the reality is that is already the case. Stop using my own stickers and sticking me with them. Hey. I'm just trying to promote Citadel Dispatch, which is a fantastic podcast everyone should be subscribing to. Available on all podcast apps. Just search the little dispatch at your favorite one. All joking   aside, legit, one of the best Bitcoin focused podcasts in existence.   I mean, we're already in that state. Right? Like, with the   I love that you're giving me shit and then you're also like   well, they're like wasted stickers otherwise. No. They're not. These are these are high quality stickers. The point is we are already in that state. And the reality is, like, people people   fuck you, Q. People labor under the delusion   that these systems are separate and that the government does not necessarily have access   to your quote, unquote private information, but they already do. And   I think there's a lot of legal cases that would   that support that claim.  

But the record show, Matadel literally just checked his wow to see how much longer we are going. No. That's not what I did.  

[01:11:15] Unknown:

I had I was supposed to do another recording, and Pete told me not to do it. But we are we are at a great point in this conversation to continue going. And if I hadn't canceled that other responsibility, we would be fucked. I take full responsibility. Yeah. She should've done it. It was all peaceful. Yeah. 100%. So that's why I checked. Alright. Fair enough. Fair enough. I think this has been a great conversation. I hope I hope the audience has agreed so far. And I I hope I hope from what you're saying, which excites me is we're not done yet. I don't I mean, I don't think so. I think we're in stride right now. Absolutely not.  

[01:11:48] Unknown:

So one of the there's an there's an episode you did recently,  

[01:11:52] Unknown:

with Rockstar before he was hit. Before he died and then resurrected. Yes.  

[01:11:58] Unknown:

Those are your words.  

[01:12:02] Unknown:

Where he encouraged If you did a resurrection, you should at least done it, like, outside of a cave. You know, done it the full 9 yards. I 100%   agree. Yeah. Okay. Continue.  

[01:12:12] Unknown:

Or he basically advocated for everyone   creating NIMs to   explore different aspects of their identity. Yeah.   And different things that they were interested in. And I think this is a really interesting idea. It is not something that I have ever done, but I think that   it's something I I'm curious what what whether you have explored that yourself. I'm trying to get you to dox yourself. What are your names? And, I've had many names.  

[01:12:40] Unknown:

This was the only one that it didn't have the   wherewithal to cycle out.  

[01:12:49] Unknown:

I'm I'm not trying to do a gotcha question. Because the the key is the key is  

[01:12:54] Unknown:

when it comes to NIMs, like, they should be temporary things. They should be   you should be   getting rid of them and starting fresh ones. You should have many, many nymphs. People should have many I mean, they can do whatever the fuck they want, but it's really empowering having many nymphs.   And, like, a perfect example a perfect example.   An easy to grok example if you're on Twitter   is this idea that when you like a post, it tells everyone that you like the post.   Right? Like, you should be able to and I know all of you have thought about this. When you press the like button, you're like, everyone's gonna be notified basically that I like this post. What are the implications there? And that's ridiculous. Right? Like, you should be free to explore   and and learn and improve and do all these things without necessarily having this this element of social pressure that maybe you may or may not consented to.  

And I I think   that is obviously, like, a smaller example than that. Right? But, like, you should be able to be free to do these things. And and having having many different names is an easy is an easy answer to to doing that in today's age. Yeah. I just I I listened to that episode recently, and and I really like the idea that  

[01:14:07] Unknown:

of encouraging people to explore   creating multiple NIMs.   And that being a normalized behavior rather than something that is sort of, like, wait, why do you have multiple names that you do not connect? Like, what are you trying to So you wanna know the positive take on this? Yes.  

[01:14:28] Unknown:

Esports   and drone racing.   I'm so excited to hear how this is connected. The top 10 in the world, almost all nims. No shit. Now,   like, that's that's a generation that decided   that their   their passion, their their main thing that they're focused on, like, regardless if you think they're legitimate sports like playing League of Legends or drone racing, I would I would argue that drone racing is pretty fucking cool. Like, it's Yeah. I love kinda cool. Video games. I just wish the drones had missiles on them. I think that would make it more exciting. 100%. They're all they're all NIMs.   I think they're Fortnite, the Fortnite championship or whatever was, like, won by, like, a 14 year old in Argentina named, you know,   Grain slime boner jam. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.  

It's like eagleflyer or something.   That's just a Native American name. I don't even know. I whatever. But, you know, it's like,   he had he had a nim. Right? He had a nim, and it was normalized. It wasn't like it wasn't like Were you on camera though?   Like, he didn't, like, show his face? No. He he showed his face, but it wasn't like His name is you know, Paul 1. It was blah blah 1. Right? Like, that was his and, like, he had fans that came there to support his name. They didn't come there to support his legal name. Right. So there there's a normalization happening in the younger generation already.   For sure. At least in the gaming world and the   I would I would like like drone racing is probably the gaming world. That's probably still the same demo. I mean, I have But you you see that. I certainly had an interesting experience doing the programming for Bitcoin 2022,  

[01:16:00] Unknown:

which is I was   surprised by the number of, like you know, I had to interact with a lot of high profile people whether it was, you know, Bukele president Bukele, the Salvador's team   or,   you know, people associated with   any number of political figures who were, like, deeply   confused by the idea that my name was a simp was a letter. And they were, like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Like, what are you trying to hide? You know what you should have said. Right? What's that? It was a birth certificate. Fuck up.   No. That  

[01:16:30] Unknown:

I didn't even get the chance. I feel like that just ends the conversation. It's like, yeah. I don't know what my mom was thinking, but she fucked up the birth certificate. Mom was gonna my mom was told when she had me, which explains That's the liberty you get to take when your NIM is a single letter. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I I I was fascinated by that. Like, even in the Bitcoin space, can you can you stop just, like, slamming gamers all over the country. Try to turn this on me, Ricky   Bobby. Anyway, I I I I think that I I love the idea that Slow and steady. Like, it'll get normalized over time. Yeah. I think that's the optimistic take.  

[01:17:04] Unknown:

I think you're right. I think you're right.  

[01:17:08] Unknown:

To be honest, I've just been imagining these, drone races as, like, early predecessors   to   I'm a star wars fan. So, like, pod racing. Yeah. Love that.  

[01:17:19] Unknown:

Love that. Every, like, fit it the references that you make are either, like,   basketball,   NFL,   Star Wars. That's it. That's all you got. You have about  

[01:17:30] Unknown:

30% of my personality.   Yeah.  

[01:17:33] Unknown:

You don't make very many references. I know.   Like, like, sort of, like, broad,   you know,   cultural references.  

[01:17:46] Unknown:

Do I not?   I don't think so. I don't know. There's, like,   100, if not, 1,000 of hours of me publicly speaking. But if you say so  

[01:17:55] Unknown:

I mean, look Pete, you have homework to do. Look. I mean, look. You you're publicly you hate sports. You hate gambling.  

[01:18:02] Unknown:

And, wait. Wait. Why? I'm I'm totally I'm sorry. I love that you guys take. I skipped over the sports thing and I was like, I love gambling.  

[01:18:12] Unknown:

I I one of my favorite things, by the way, is the fact that you and Q can't seem to tell at all when I'm just, like, it's really hard because I worked very closely with p for a while now.  

[01:18:25] Unknown:

And it, like, really wasted a lot of my time.   I know. No shit. It's like, fuck. Why was I listening? That was bullshit. It was, like, completely unnecessary.  

[01:18:35] Unknown:

It makes me so happy.   And, yeah. It's like the I would say it's the 5th most common topic of conversation when we are hanging out, like, privately. It's sort of, like, the reference is still, like, god fucking damn it. Like, why did I waste my time attending   to what you were saying?  

[01:18:52] Unknown:

Alright.   I I'm glad to know that this is not just like a personal experience with PETA. This is a very consistent theme.   So look, here's the thing.  

[01:19:04] Unknown:

I think it is important that we are all challenged   to   critically examine everything that is being fed to us   at all times and I view it as a personal,  

[01:19:19] Unknown:

like, responsibility. Know if this is bullshit or not. Right?  

[01:19:22] Unknown:

You don't even know. Like, it could just Look. Not the joy. Not the joy. Not the joy. This is the issue. Right? This is the issue. It's like he could be making an important point, or I should just not pay attention. Like, I don't even know. Right? Now look. Look. Here here's the You never know where you're gonna have so good about, like, setting up the punch line. Yeah. Like, I'll give him credit. Like, I'm just not even gonna listen to this. Look. Here here's the thing. If you don't know me well enough, there is always a deep nugget of truth in everything that I'm saying. And I'm just figuring it out as we go. I'm saying I'm saying stuff and then I will turn it into some random comment that makes it, not really relevant. My point is   I would hope that we are all critically evaluating everything that we're hearing around us at all times. I think that especially well, actually, I don't wanna say especially in the Bitcoin space. I think this is this is more prevalent in   outside of Bitcoin.  

But we have a tendency   to lionize   the people that we identify as heroes   and to not evaluate critically the individual   statements that they make and the decisions they advocate for.   And I think that's a that's a huge loss. And   my own random personality   leads me to say random shit all the time. But that's kind of the nugget of what I'm trying to do. It's like,   I want everybody to be  

[01:20:41] Unknown:

critically evaluating everything that everyone has. You're like the teacher who, like, says bullshit so that people don't always just assume whatever the teacher says is the good  

[01:20:50] Unknown:

thing. I think that that would be a very presumptuous thing for me to argue because I'd be lying if I said I knew I I I thought these things through as I was saying them. But that's a positive take. That's the optimistic take. That's what we've been talking about this entire time. That is the optimistic take. The name name of this episode is? The optimistic take. The optimistic take with Odell.   Oh, I'm so happy. Literally, nothing you've said has made me happier than when you pulled the cork out. For the audience,   every time I pull the cork out, in front of my mic, the the you've heard every time has been me trying to induce Odell to do this because it's like this.  

What's the word? What's the the person who rings the bell? Alcoholism.   Pav loves dogs. Pav loves dogs. Yeah. I have listened to your fucking podcasts   for so many years and that, like, boom, is such a, like, visceral   experience for me of, like, let's fucking get into it. Like, this is gonna be   an uncensored   real conversation. So I'm super excited that you just pull the bottle and Love the love love the bottle pop. Odell vetoed me trying to hotbox this room. I did try earlier. Yeah. Yeah. You fucking idiot. You're trying to do this in, like, a like, this is, like, a $1,000,000 fucking studio we're in with, like, expensive audio equipment. Everything around us is fucking gorgeous.   Shout out Bitcoin Park.  

And you're over here trying to fucking blow. Wait. Wait. Wait.  

[01:22:14] Unknown:

If that is something you'd be interested in, it is going to be an opportunity for that in the future.   Stay tuned to this channel to   to see that.  

[01:22:26] Unknown:

Wait. I feel like you didn't seal the deal.  

[01:22:28] Unknown:

I don't know how much I'm allowed to talk about or not. You you talk about whatever the fuck you want. If you haven't figured  

[01:22:33] Unknown:

say whatever you want.  

[01:22:34] Unknown:

If if we have to hold this podcast until a certain date, we can do that. No. I don't I hate holding podcasts. I'm not gonna lie. We talked about this. No. No. No. No. No. We're not gonna do that. Look. There might be there might be a conversation with me and q in the future Oh, yeah. That resembles I don't I don't wanna say that. Yeah. I don't wanna say that. Yeah. See, I'm good. I'm like God fucking damn it. What people don't realize is they're like, Matt, you say ridiculous shit.   Like, yeah. But I've I've had many hours of being drunk on air, and there's a lot of shit I don't say.   Pretty good about it for the most part. I've had my I've had my,   my low points, but there's there's been pretty good about it. Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. I thought you were basically saying, like Lot of secrets up here.  



[01:23:19] Unknown:

Can you can you say that again, but, like, slur just a little bit more? No. Alright. Alright. Fair enough.  

[01:23:26] Unknown:

I don't play by nobody's rules.  

[01:23:29] Unknown:

It's it's understandable.   So a question that I like to ask.   What have we not talked about in this conversation   that   you have  

[01:23:42] Unknown:

Nope.  

[01:23:43] Unknown:

I got I got our next topic. Oh, fuck that. No. No. No. Hold on. Hold on. This is a real question.  

[01:23:50] Unknown:

It wasn't a real okay.  

[01:23:54] Unknown:

What is something that you have not   here's because looking at each other like  

[01:24:00] Unknown:

Wait. Like, you're asking me a question to ask Oh, but continue. Just go. Just ask me a question. What is something you shit, man. Just just keep drinking your mezcal. What is something like? Almost done with the bottle.   Which I'm impressed because I I've taken, like, 2 sips of the Yeah. You haven't drinking anything. I'm not gonna drink it. Pretty lame. Yeah. You literally have an entire fucking glass. Drinking this. Personal choice. You have your choice. I I'm use I'm He's been say drinking a single can of Bud Light Salsa. And I've been using my vice pretty long have you been going for? What is that over there?   Only an hour and 30 minutes. An hour and 30 minutes, you've been sipping on that single Bud Light Seltzer. Congratulations. There's no oh, there's one more. Here, I'll go get a second. No pure pressure. Okay. Ask the question. Ask the question while he was like, to replenish himself.  

The question genuinely is Which means it was empty, by the way. So he hasn't even been sipping it. A 100%.  

[01:24:49] Unknown:

What is the topic that you feel comfortable wait. What? Continue.  

[01:24:55] Unknown:

You just did the   Yeah. We got okay. Go on. No. No. No. Like I don't think this is a real question. Continue. It is a real question. What is something  

[01:25:02] Unknown:

that   you haven't had the opportunity   to dive into recently on the many   podcasts that you have done in the public appearances that is super important   to you personally or to the Bitcoin space.   And it can be a niche thing. It can be within the the within the larger concept of privacy.   It can be within the the under the aegis of, you know, sovereignty.   And if the answer is there's nothing, that's totally fine too.  

[01:25:39] Unknown:

I don't know.  

[01:25:42] Unknown:

So while you noodle on that I'm constantly I'm constantly trying to  

[01:25:47] Unknown:

explore things that haven't been explored. I don't like,   like, part of the reason I started solo dispatch was because I was   I felt like there was   there was a hole in just public discussions and conversations in the Bitcoin space, and   I thought I could help fill that hole. I didn't wanna do what everyone else was doing. I didn't wanna   I I I I didn't wanna just be talking about the same things that everyone else was talking about.   But I don't know.   I I mean, personally, I think what specifically had been lacking for a while was   the food and the local community building kind of part of the equation,   but I've just gone, like,   ham on that. So   that's not lacking now.  



[01:26:41] Unknown:

That is actually   it's a fantastic answer, and that is something that I   I have recognized in you. You have I mean, when we moved here we moved to Nashville at approximately the same time.   And   there was   a very small community of Bitcoiners here that was mostly focused around Bitcoin Magazine.   And you have done an incredible job of,   you know, working with Bitcoin Park, working with Rod, working with Mills, and the people that are involved to really build this out into a,   a new and unique kind of mecca for Bitcoiners.   And   I think it's pretty impressive. So Yeah. I don't like  

[01:27:20] Unknown:

I'm a simple man. I like   I like target something, and I'm like, we need to do more of this, and I just fucking do it.   You know? I just see where it takes me.   And then if I feel like that has   been sufficiently boosted or sufficiently   improved, then I move to the next thing.   I think I don't think people realize, like, how much   like, how much individual action can actually   make a difference.   And individual action obviously always starts with an individual, but it,   you know, when you have like minded individuals come together, like, real change actually can happen.   Not like bullshit whining and complaining   and arguing with people for, like, bullshit Internet points.  

But, like, actually doing things and being consistent about it  

[01:28:24] Unknown:

makes a difference.  

[01:28:26] Unknown:

It makes a huge difference. But it all starts with the individual. You gotta,   I mean, the crazy thing for me is that,   like, I feel like no matter   how much   I do, like, it's fucking   still not enough. It's always not enough.   But you have to just remember it. Like, when I say these things, I'm usually reminding myself of these things. When I when I   when I when I talk publicly, I'm usually talking   this sounds conceited. I'm usually talking to myself first.   When people say, like, oh, Matt. Like, why you say stay humble all the time? You're not a humble person. It's like, yeah. Well, that's why you gotta stay humble. You know? Like, that's why you have to repeat it over and over again,   is because we're all non humble people. Most of us are not humble people. I am definitely not a humble person.  

Most of us are hypocrites. Like, we need to be less of hypocrites. Right?   Try and be consistent.   Try and do things that matter. Try and improve situations. Try and, you know, hold the door when someone's, like, trying to walk through.   These little things, they do add up. Like, you hold the door open for someone, like   there's a great documentary called the butterfly effect. Like, it it just   it goes further and further and further, like, as you here you go. I gave you a reference. It's made me so happy.   It's the happiest I've ever had. Okay. Do you have a real question you wanna ask? Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on.  



[01:29:55] Unknown:

That was a real answer, and I think it was a phenomenal one. And I also want to acknowledge, like, I think that the kind of, like, nonchalant   attitude that you have   does not do justice to how much effort   you put into this space. I mean, we were just talking about before we went live,   the insane   travel schedule that you have ahead of you over the next 2 to 3 months. And I think that   you get a lot of credit for all the work that you do in the space.   But I I honestly feel like people don't realize, like, how   much of yourself you give to Bitcoin and to educating to the people around you. And I think it's it's quite remarkable. I I I mean  

[01:30:42] Unknown:

I appreciate that and I appreciate you.  

[01:30:45] Unknown:

The feeling is mutual, my friend.   Here you go find yourself. Ask your question.   I love you too cute. I'm kidding. Of course.  

[01:30:55] Unknown:

I wanna talk KYC   Without saying all the things that I use,   I definitely don't have the best practices of my own.  

[01:31:10] Unknown:

You and 99% of other people.  

[01:31:13] Unknown:

And so   at a certain point, is it better to onboard someone for the sake of What is KYC?  

[01:31:23] Unknown:

Know your customer.   What is know your customer?  

[01:31:26] Unknown:

Essentially giving up your information  

[01:31:29] Unknown:

to Use the service.   ID  

[01:31:33] Unknown:

Bank account. Address,  

[01:31:35] Unknown:

email, phone number,   selfie maybe.   Social Security number. Social Security number.   Like, what? What type of your child?  

[01:31:44] Unknown:

Not that part. Yeah. Which testicle hangs lower than the other?  

[01:31:47] Unknown:

How much hair you have left?   Like, my favorite thing to do   when I do deal with my normie friends is   I'll get if they already have Cash App, it's so easy to just convince them, hop on over.   Like, is it better to just onboard someone   orange pill them, get them   sort of into Bitcoin   knowing that that's probably at some point, you've gotta correct the path that they're on, or should they just start off on the right path when it may be a little bit more   it may have a little bit more friction,   and therefore, less people will have that appetite.  

[01:32:27] Unknown:

I mean, so this is a very common question.   My favorite part about   my public experience in the Bitcoin space is that   I have a lot of people that disagree with me all the time.   Oftentimes   vehemently,   very,   passionate about disagreeing with me.   Sometimes it flips. Like, they'll agree with me on one thing. They disagree with me on another.   I like the hot button issues. KYC is one of them.   We we shouldn't be I you know,   Harry Potter was mostly a shitcoin,   but I think the aspect of of not of not saying I'm trying to do as many references as possible. The aspect of the aspect of of not saying Voldemort saying he who must not be named,   I think is a is very relevant to today's culture. Like, there's a lot of things that people just don't want to talk about.  

And I think   there really is power in just talking about them. Let's have open discussions about them. Right? So k y c,   this   encroaching   state enforced   requirement   to provide intimate personal information to use basic   necessary   services   is absolutely anti freedom. It's horrible for this country. It's horrible for people around the world. It puts us at risk.   Like even if you're a status, like it puts us all at risk, like it makes it makes America weaker. It makes us less robust. It makes us more vulnerable to potential enemies like China or Russia   or other malicious actors that might wanna steal our information and use it against   our own citizens. Right?  

But people in power have decided that their ability to control us, the trade off of putting us at risk to our enemies is is worth it for being able to control us.   This encroachment is not unique to Bitcoin.   If you are using   dollars   and you are one of our peers who predominantly   chooses not to use cash, I mean, we've seen with the younger generation, they don't use cash. Like, I   I'm very unique.   I'm very unique in this.   You listen to just pull pull out a lot of cash. Like, do you guys have cash? Yeah. You guys have any cash on you? No. But my father would be furious. We have Mills. We have our great producer Mills over here in the background. You have cash. Wait. Keep in mind, if you don't like the audio quality or video quality, producer Mills, she's in the background.   I'm kidding. She's mostly just spectating. She did not handle mostly, you can blame Pete. He handled most of the setup. Oh, shit. You do have cash.  

Yeah. Like, you have cash. That's rare among our peers. That's because you like weed.   But   Let's be real. The the weed smokers of the youth,   have   understood, you know, what it means to do p to p exchanges.   And, like, at the summer, guys, like, they get a lot of shit, but a lot of things. But one thing they make a lot of sense about is they say, like, oh, you say this shit is too difficult. Like, every weed smoker in America has dealt with it already. Wonderful. And, like, you dealt with it because you had a need or whatever. But my point is is this is a little bit long winded, but KYC   providing all this identifying   information surrounds us every point of our life. Like, you check into a hotel.  

You set up Venmo. You wanna use any kind of digital payment mechanism,   whether that's PayPal, Venmo, Cash App,   Chase QuickPay, bank account. Right? Like, you're providing all this intimate information.   You wanna travel on the plane. You're providing   information. Maybe they're gonna pat you down, grab your crotch.   Like, people are giving up all this information everywhere. Now Bitcoin was a microcosm for a while because we had no KYC. There was, like, you can it was just   everything was I it's hard for you guys to realize. No. No. I know. I mean, it was When you go back to 2015, 95%   of services.  



[01:36:20] Unknown:

No KYC.  

[01:36:22] Unknown:

And it was a big selling point of Bitcoin was, like, this was the non   this was that that that non KYC   parallel economy. Right? And then KYC swept in. It swept in super fast. People called it regulatory clarity. They said it was bullish,   you know, and it got normalized super fucking quickly in Bitcoin. So it's a very strong sticking point in Bitcoin.   Now if we're talking about   using Bitcoin as a money   that is independent of states and corporations,   to achieve that,   it goes to say that you probably shouldn't be giving intimate personal information connected to your Bitcoin and yourself   to states and corporations.  

So if you're deciding to use Bitcoin as   a non state resistant, a   non corporate independent   money,   then that makes complete sense for you to   use a fully regulated service.   But if your goal is to have a money that is truly independent of states and corporations,   that is truly permissionless, that truly allows access for everybody. And, like so KYC has two elements to it. It's not only the surveillance and control element, but it's also the exclusion permission element.   KYC policies restrict a ton of people from using Bitcoin with these services.   It restricts them from using banking services. It restricts them   I mean, during COVID, it restricted them from going to certain restaurants in certain bars. It restricted them from traveling to certain places. Right?  

It restricted them from getting phone numbers and basic services, restricted them from getting utilities,   but it also restricted them from using Bitcoin.   So the power of Bitcoin to me is that you can use it outside of those services.   So what I would say at the most basic element, and I don't I'm not a   extremist on any one side even though a lot of people probably would.   Ironically, people that disagree with each other would pigeonhole me on both sides and say, like, oh,   like, you're pro k y c or you're anti k y c extremist. I'm really, like, somewhere in the middle. I want people to be aware of the trade offs. I wanna be people to be aware of the risks,   and I want people to be aware of the fact that it doesn't have to be exclusive   per individual. Like, you could have   you could buy Bitcoin through a regulated service, and you could buy Bitcoin p to p   in person.  

And you can have 2 separate   Bitcoin stacks. Right? And one stack might be,   you pretending you're Wolf of Wall Street, and the other stack might be you pretending that you're Sopranos and you're hiding your duffel bag in the wall. So 4th reference.   The   like, you can have that situation. Like, that can be   how you choose to do it, and that's your personal choice. But what I would say is   I'm really against the idea of when you're bringing friends and family into Bitcoin,   that you immediately just say,   go to this regulated service, sign up, use my ref link. I'm gonna get, like, a portion of your fees,   and off to the wolves with you. Go submit all your personal no. What you really should do is you should send them a little bit of Bitcoin.  

Let them appreciate   self sovereign Bitcoin. Let them appreciate being able to download a mobile wallet   like Moon Wallet with 2 Us. And   you install the mobile wallet, and you receive Bitcoin without providing your ID, without providing any of this verification information. Just, like, instantly, you're just all of a sudden you're connected to this global financial open monetary network,   receive some Bitcoin, be able to send some Bitcoin. Like, that is fucking powerful. Like, telling someone to go to some regulated service, give them all their personal information,   and,   you know, set up dollar cost averaging.  

It's just like like, I know inflation is bad, but that's not there's no empowerment. There's very little empowerment that's happening there, and they're missing they're missing the forest or the trees of what the Bitcoin   of of what the power of Bitcoin really is.   And so even if they choose to actively go to one of these and they might ask you, like, what is my what is the best one? And and, ultimately, it is   a it is a   decision that needs to be made. Do you this is a trusted third party. This is someone you're trusting with your private information. Like, it should be   a   active discussion   that is that is educated decision. Right? Like, they're actually thinking about who they're trusting with this information. They might ask you that question afterwards.  

But their first touch with Bitcoin   should be self sovereign Bitcoin, should be individually empowered Bitcoin.  

[01:41:06] Unknown:

I could not agree more.  

[01:41:10] Unknown:

Sorry, Jack. I tried to shell Cash App.  

[01:41:15] Unknown:

The problem with Bitcoin is when you just say Jack, you don't know which regulated service you're showing. It could be Cash App or or Strike.  

[01:41:23] Unknown:

I I think that is a   I I don't know how to summarize what you're set what you have said in a an in a more eloquent way. No. But  

[01:41:34] Unknown:

I appreciate what he said. Like, to be honest, like, it makes me think, like, differently about the way I would approach if   a friend who has no touchpoint to Bitcoin   already   were to reach out to me and be like, help me figure this out, help me set it up.   At least you could explain to them more holistically what it's meant to do  

[01:41:55] Unknown:

rather than just here's a little bit of Bitcoin now off to the wolves with you. No. No. No. It's it's more than that. Here's a little bit of Bitcoin is actually a fantastic way to onboard somebody to Bitcoin As long as you're doing it in a way that does not require k you know, KYC and in empowers them to be self sovereign.   But saying, like, oh, yeah. You know, you wanna understand Bitcoin, like, you know, go sign up for,   you know, fucking   whatever exchange. Over showing Cash App Cash App.   Sorry.   You should not say   those   no.  



[01:42:30] Unknown:

The reason the reason I use Cash App as the example Is because they already have it. It's the number one app. That is the last there's less friction there already. It's like the app's already on your phone.  

[01:42:41] Unknown:

That's genuinely why But, like, here's an interesting   here's an interesting microcosm with Cash App. Obviously, you need to use KYC to use Cash App to begin with. But to use a Bitcoin portion of Cash App, you have to use even enhanced. You have to go further.   So they might already have Cash App on their phone, but to actually withdraw their Bitcoin to their own wallet,   they need to go through an additional level of KYC. So it actually doesn't reduce that much friction. It might reduce, like, mental friction of trusting a company because you already trust that company, but you're still providing you're still providing additional information.   I just   when you think about it, it's like   the amount of people that their first touch point for Bitcoin   was   entering their home address,   scanning their driver's license, and then taking selfies.  

And then we go on Twitter and we say,   like, Bitcoin is fuck you money. Bitcoin is freedom money. Like, this is   this is, like, the future of money without the state and corporations involved while the majority of people are going straight in   through state and corporate surveillance machine.   Yeah. That is a weird It's just so hypocritical,   and it's just a fucking tragedy. It's a massive tragedy. And and the thing is is, like,   options are good, and people should be able to choose what they wanna do. But,   you know, we also talk about incentives in Bitcoin a lot. And   money talks.  

You know? So most of the public people, they're talking about the KYC regulated services. Why? Because those are the services that make money. Those are the services that pay them. Those are the services that sponsor their conferences and their podcasts and their books.   So that's what's talked about. There aren't that many people that are talking about   that you have other options, that you can earn Bitcoin, that you can trade at p2p,   that you can mine Bitcoin.   Right? People don't talk about those as as   as potential on ramps to Bitcoin because there's no   individual incentive for them to do it.  

And I just   I think it's important that someone who kind of myself, who stumbled into having an audience,   talks about those   situations because there's not enough people talking about  

[01:44:55] Unknown:

them. Well said.  

[01:44:59] Unknown:

Hugh going forward. I feel ashamed. Yeah. You should If I'm being quite honest, I genuinely feel ashamed right now. So I'm gonna just   sip  

[01:45:07] Unknown:

and puff for a little bit while Pete takes over this conversation. No. To be clear, he's not sipping on the mezcal. No. He's not. He's got a fucking, like, half full glass. You and I are the only ones who've killed this entire bottle. I was out smoking. No lysa counter.   Yeah. Yeah.   I I'm just reflecting on my own experience of getting into Bitcoin.   You know, in in my my first exposure to Bitcoin was in, you know, 2017. And I did not understand it until until,   you know, a couple years later. But   I   I had the experience that I think you're speaking to which is sort of this this   this sense of   expansive freedom of being like, oh my gosh, like, you can one can transact   in   value   separate from   the existing   kind of Orwellian   visibility   of the state.  

And I'm just realizing that after, you know, in this conversation, like, you're right. The 99 I don't wanna say 99. The majority like 99% of newcomers. Yeah. They don't experience that. That. Like, that was the thing that blew my fucking mind. It was like, oh, my gosh. There is so and I I came in as someone who's building options trading bots and traditional equities and stuff. And I was like, oh, my god. So much liquidity in this space.   And it is free. Not in the sense of, like, oh, where I'm I'm unable to avoid   regulatory,   things so that I can do bullshit things. It was like, oh my gosh. This is actually,   money that   can be used separate from state oversight   corrupt state oversight.  

And I I am just, thinking about how as you said, so a few people have that experience today. Yeah. It's like,  

[01:46:50] Unknown:

our money is is essentially on   non Bitcoin money. Right? Fiat money is essentially on the centralized servers   that are controlled by governments, corporations. It's not our money.   It's IOUs. While Bitcoin   like, the money is in the computer.   It's like Zoolander.   Actually, in the computer, you have the keys. You own that money.   I mean, I guess some people might say it's it's on the ledger,   But, like, your private keys are on your they're in your computer.   I mean, I hope not. I hope they're not in your Internet connected computer. No. I mean I mean, hardware wallet is a computer. It's a purpose built computer. Absolutely.   I think I think the you wanna talk about that. I think that's a interesting topic,   to go back to your previous non question,   which is,   you know, Bitcorners a good show. Bitcorners, we tend   we're obsessed with Bitcoin.  

Right?   Bitcoin a lot of Bitcoiners   are are obviously obsessed with Bitcoin. We're very enthusiastic about Bitcoin. We go down the rabbit hole. We go super, super deep. There's so many different facets of Bitcoin and associated   parallel systems that you can discuss and talk about and dissect and argue about.   But, ultimately,   to me, Bitcoin's   value prop is in its simplicity. It's a money that you own yourself,   that you have control of, that doesn't require permission from anyone else, that can't be censored by anyone else, that you don't have to think about. It's a robust, stable system that is just   existing, and you can choose to partake in it and use it if you want to use it.  

And when you go down this   you go down that route, you go down that route of Bitcoin and simplicity.   Like, the majority of people are going to be using Bitcoin on Internet connected devices. They're gonna be using it primarily on their mobile phone.   They're not gonna be   you know, some people will choose to use hardware wallets.   Some people will use multi sig. There'll be all different options, shapes, and sizes. People will have different signing devices, different configurations of how they use Bitcoin. But the overwhelming majority of people   will be using it on   247 Internet connected mobile phones, period. They will download a mobile app,   and they will use their Bitcoin on it.  

And that trade off balance between convenience and security will be   way better than the status quo for the overwhelming majority of people.   And bit I think Bitcoin is pretend that's not gonna be the case. Like, that's that is that is the trajectory we're going to. If you choose to use your own node, you choose to hold your own keys on offline devices, print them in steel, have them geographically distributed, That's your prerogative.   That's what we do. But there's gonna be a lot of people that choose not to do that.   And that's okay. And that's the reality. And but that's the reality we should be,   you know, building tools and education for. Absolutely. Not us as much. Like, we we still need our tools in education a 100%.  

But, like, when you talk about, like, the next billion, the next 5,000,000,000,   you have to talk about mobile phones. You have to talk about hot wallets. You have to talk about improving those trade off models.   Yeah. And I   think  

[01:50:22] Unknown:

I thought you should literally just tick her. You you lost her wedding bed.   I think this is extremely relevant   right now   because we have tools like   or or companies like Fetti that are building out, you know, Federated Chow Me and Mints which create which are   a system that allows it does a a really good job of sort of being this middle ground. You know, you have sort of like these fully custodial   IOU based Bitcoin systems on one end and then you have people like us who are like, you know, or at least me who's like, you know,   2 of 3 multi sig, you know, I'm attaching 1 to a seal, 1 to an eagle, 1 to a cheetah, releasing them. And if I deserve it, I'll I'll I'll get it back. Well, I like that strategy. And it's good. It's good.  

You're welcome for my sacrifice.   And I think FEDI, you know, FEDI Mint Federated Economy and Mints are this really, really powerful   system that acknowledges as you've said before,   which is that people will take the path of least resistance. And And so it is our responsibility as Bitcoiners   who are interested in onboarding as many people as possible   to this thing that is this truly this life raft, this financial life raft   to creating these systems that   help people do that in a way that that meets them where they are. And I think systems like Federated Chime Aidments are one of those examples where you can rely on these existing   trust structures,   to create these these or rely on your, you know, existing communities. And I think that's really powerful. And I   on that same note, I've been trying to think of an analogy   that will re that resonates with people around how important being able to   have custody of your own,   you know,   money. And and I and I read a lot of science fiction. And I I kinda feel like an analogy that works is   if we were a space faring civilization or when we are a space faring civilization   the idea that   you should not have control   of your own oxygen.  

I think today people today   would hear, like, oh, yeah. What if the government was like, yo, we get to control   whether you have oxygen or not? And if we decide you will die of,   you know, oxygen asphyxiation,   that is the way it is. The justice system decides that. I think people today would react and be, like, that sounds fucking crazy. No. I think most people would be cool with that. Are you serious? It's for the greater good.   Shit, man.   Maybe I give people too much credit. I feel like if if it was literally the idea that, like, you could literally not be provided with oxygen   just because of, like, a government fuck up, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry.  



[01:53:02] Unknown:

Somebody decided that this payment thing about to do that with energy.   They're literally about to do it with energy. We're gonna see the case study in real time. I think you're right. But I think even energy is, like, farther removed because people have people Yeah. Oxygen is the core. I mean, what? Like, they made the reference in Spaceballs where they had the   the bottled air. That the rich people drink the bottled air. No. No. But I thought the reference.   Number 6.  

[01:53:29] Unknown:

For those that you were counting, your bingo card is full. You should be drinking right now.  

[01:53:35] Unknown:

That's what it's like. Right? Bottle there. I mean, we see it with water, right, already.   Like, rich people drink bottled purified water. No. But I think it's different. I think of Everyone else's water is contaminated.  

[01:53:45] Unknown:

I think of the ability to control   and have privacy around with how you transact fresh well water. No. No. No.  

[01:53:54] Unknown:

I'm talking about oxygen in general. I know. But I just wanted to make sure that the Water Maxi is new that I'm aware that you can still have fresh water that's not bottled.   Absolutely.  

[01:54:03] Unknown:

Do you agree though that, like, I I think of a Bitcoin   and   monetary   freedom as being akin to   being in   space   and not having access to oxygen. And when people are like, oh, you should be you should have to KYC for your   your your money. You should have to KYC for your Bitcoin. I think of it as like, how would you feel if you had to, like, KYC   for oxygen? Where you could your ID for oxygen. Yeah. Where you could literally die within   4 minutes. 4 minutes, you're fucking brain dead. I think of it as the same same level of importance. I love and respect Odell way too much to let him have to actually answer this ridiculous question. Why? I don't think this is ridiculous. But I appreciate your love and respect. I also appreciate your question.  

[01:54:49] Unknown:

I think it's a valid question. I I again, I'm sorry. Less of a question than a talking point,   for the 3 of us. But,  

[01:54:57] Unknown:

Like,  

[01:54:58] Unknown:

the absurdity of that. No. I mean, I think I think think it's that absurd, truly. I'm not I'm not being Did you really think that's within the realm of possibility? No. No. So what I No. No. No. No. I'm I'm using it as an analogy. Like, what using it's a shitty analogy. So the so, like, Masir,   Mohammedoff   had a very   he had a great line of thinking.   Very young dude, had a very great line of thinking, like, 2 years ago, then he stepped back behind.   He stepped back into privacy and didn't want to, you know, be a public figure.   And what he equated Bitcoin to was time.  

Right? And time is is the most scarce thing we have. Life is short.   Right? Life is short, and, ultimately,   everything we do in our life   is   exchanging time   for,   you know, we're we're exchanging time   for goods and services, essentially. Right? Or a proxy for that. Right. Or a proxy for that. And the proxy for that for the longest time has been   has been fiat money that's been controlled by corporations   and and states.   And we've essentially been robbed of that time. So you spend,   you know,   you you you spend   your time at work, you go to work, and then you get paid in this inferior good that is essentially   rug pull by design. They're just taking   they're taking that time from you over and over again, and you're just losing   that stored   value, that stored   time that is lost. Right? And Bitcoin to   he I think he perfectly encapsulated that Bitcoin   is is this embodiment of the value of time.  

So if I put time into doing something,   I should be able to store   that effort I put in   in something   that's equally durable.   And and Bitcoin is actually equally durable in that respect.   And KYC   steps in the middle of that and as a state and corporate permission layer in between that exchange between time   and the storage of that effort.  

[01:57:19] Unknown:

So here's my rebuttal to that.   People   do not I agree. Time is the most precious asset that we have available. If people think Bitcoin scares No. No. Time. Bitcoin is a complete shitcoin compared to time. Yeah. It's time and attention.   You can never They're 1 in the same.  

[01:57:37] Unknown:

Yeah. Okay. Besides you, most of us try and stay as concise as possible. You try and AdWords. I mean, I was about to say, like, I find it. I find this fascinating that p values time so much, given how much of it he weighs.  

[01:57:51] Unknown:

Look. I've been talking good point. Wait. Here look here. Professional rug pullover here, this guy.  

[01:57:57] Unknown:

I'm absorbing your time and attention in real time right now. You're getting rugged. No. No. Look. I don't think   I don't think the average person   values their time enough. And the reason I use oxygen is because Nobody does. Nobody does. No. But people Nobody doesn't. Nobody doesn't. Go watch,  

[01:58:16] Unknown:

put it on the plaque, put it on the wall. There you go. Nobody doesn't. Go watch, Matt Adele. Go watch the documentary.  

[01:58:25] Unknown:

It's based on Into Thin Air, Everest. Oh, I love it. I love both the book and the movie. Yeah. Right? Go watch that movie   where they're literally, like once you go above a certain altitude Some more references. I mean, the book is a 1000 times better. At 1,000,000 percent better. You're absolutely right. John Kirkauer. Has there ever been a movie that was better than the book?   I'm not gonna let you derail this conversation. No. Derail it for a second.  

[01:58:51] Unknown:

That has to be right. Oh, I got you.   Although, this is a terrible example, but Game of Thrones   because the books never came out.  

[01:59:01] Unknown:

No. But the TV show is way worse than the books.   What about no.   I I don't know of 1.   No. I guess National Treasure,   better or worse than the declaration of independence.  

[01:59:13] Unknown:

Okay. That was funny. I did not see that coming. I'd argue I'd argue  

[01:59:17] Unknown:

potentially the Marvel  

[01:59:19] Unknown:

movies just because they were movies to come. There's, like, hard news. If you disagree with that take, post that in the comments. Yeah. A 100%. Look, I'm gonna shut up for a second. I've been talking a lot. My point is  

[01:59:28] Unknown:

I I I lost track of what you were saying. I don't remember what we're talking about. Look. It could have been sarcastic. We would've No. No. That's not sarcastic. I will I will I will put it succinctly.  

[01:59:35] Unknown:

Go watch the movie Everest, where literally the thing that kills everyone in that movie is they run out of fucking oxygen   on Everest. And, like, that's it. They run out of oxygen. They're fucking dead. So it's called the dead zone. There's no new name. I'm a psychopath. I wanna climb out. Okay. Great. But you understand. Right? It's like you go above. You're in this area. There's literally not enough oxygen in order to survive. Some people climb it without oxygen. Yeah. No. No. They're dying. They're they're they they can they can assimilate. They're dying. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Like, literally, like, when you go Most of the Sherpas don't climb with oxygen. Yeah. They just pace they're dying. Exactly. They they get up there and down pretty the Sherpas? No. No. They get up and down pretty easily. But once you go above 26,000 feet You only have so much time up there. You're literally dying. Like, you're you you stop being able to digest food, your body your your brain starts swelling, your lungs start filling with fluid, and it's literally it's like the people that are the best adapted, the Sherpas who have grown up their whole lives. They know it's like, yeah. Yeah. You can spend this much time above this this this altitude, and then there's nothing you can do. You're gonna fucking die. And my point is that is the best analogy for k y c Bitcoin.   No. That is the best analogy for fucking Bitcoin. My point is   people need to be thinking about   serenity, sovereignty,   and being able to control their financial future in the same way that they think Mills is literally, like, dying over here. Look at serenity, sovereignty, mix up is, like Gotcha. That's a pretty fun mix up. I've been talking about go ahead. Somebody else talk. Right now. No. No. No. No. So, like, Bitcoin is oxygen.  



[02:01:02] Unknown:

I think that is We have Bitcoin is hope. Then we have all the memes. We have, like, Bitcoin is hope. Bitcoin is time.   P is Bitcoin is oxygen. I can also buy my bug protein.   That's his niche.  

[02:01:15] Unknown:

I am not going to I will never tweet bitcoin as oxygen.   My point is I think that these types of analogies are useful to people   because   they allow people to   view it from a different perspective. That's it. That's all my that's all I'll say.  

[02:01:32] Unknown:

I would like to say,   and feel free to quote me on your favorite social media platform if you wish. Bitcoin is oxygen.  

[02:01:42] Unknown:

Okay. Wait. Reality check. I'm gonna I'm gonna honestly, I'm gonna be the evo too, and I'm gonna says.   I'm gonna post it right now so that way people know what night we recorded this. Okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. Real talk. How much have I been talking in this conversation? I I think you've been good. You're fine. I think you've been doing it. Do we quote Odell, or do we quote Pete for this? Definitely quote Odell. I mean, he he said he didn't say it. It's way funnier if you quote Odell. Definitely quote Odell.  

[02:02:08] Unknown:

Nels, what do you think?  

[02:02:10] Unknown:

Mills has already tweeted it.   I might have already tweeted it. It's fine. She said she might have already tweeted that. Fair enough.  

[02:02:17] Unknown:

Alright. We've been we this is this rip has been going for 2 hours and 5 minutes. Great rip. The movie is better than the book.  

[02:02:24] Unknown:

Fight Club the movie is better than the book? I don't I've never read the book, Fight Club. Interesting.  

[02:02:29] Unknown:

Thank you.  

[02:02:30] Unknown:

Written by someone   from,  

[02:02:34] Unknown:

Washington state. Check Pound. I mean, the movie's great. The movie's great. She's telling us things you can't hear. It's written by someone from Washington state. The book is a letdown. The book is a letdown.  

[02:02:45] Unknown:

We're kind of forced to movie.  

[02:02:47] Unknown:

Mills.   You can follow her at at mills. At specific mills. At specific mills. You don't even fucking know. This is your colleague. This is your compatriot in arms. You're over here. The key was that I tried to do the show.   The attempt was made.  

[02:03:03] Unknown:

I wanna be clear. Thank you so much for joining us. Matt   Odell with an apostrophe.  

[02:03:10] Unknown:

Odell.   Yeah.   Harish Odell.   What else? Thank you for your patience and grace as well, sir.  

[02:03:17] Unknown:

You are very graceful.  

[02:03:19] Unknown:

Oh, it's been a pleasure hosting you guys in my studio on your show.  

[02:03:25] Unknown:

Alright. We'll get we'll see ourselves out.  

[02:03:29] Unknown:

Before we wrap, I would just say,   that you boys work at Bitcoin Magazine.   I've   been working with Bitcoin Magazine for a while now.   We do have a fantastic conference that's gonna be happening in Amsterdam.   And you can go to b.tc/conference,   and you can use discount code Odell. No.   Oh, bitch. You would get a better discount code than both of these both of these. No. No. No. You you know the drill. You know the drill. So if you wanna rug pull your 2 favorite hosts,   consider using  

[02:04:07] Unknown:

bleep   out   bleep out Odell's   code and you know  

[02:04:13] Unknown:

just Can can you please code b m live. It gets 10% off. Just use their promo code. You can have fun staying poor. It's fine.  

[02:04:21] Unknown:

Tido, make sure you you pick out.  

[02:04:27] Unknown:

No. But honestly, boys, it's been a pleasure. I'm glad we made this happen. I'm glad we had you and Nash. It's been fun. It's not good to be. It's not over yet. It'll be a good time.   Yeah. No. I love you both. It's been a pleasure. The feeling is mutual, man.  

[02:04:44] Unknown:

Thank you so much.   That's a wrap.  

[02:04:48] Unknown:

Be sure to like and subscribe subscribe. Jesus.  

[02:04:51] Unknown:

Jesus fucking Christ.   Let me do this. Let me do this. Let me do this.   Be sure to like and subscribe.   Please invest in my own company,   Insect Milk. This is artisanal insect milk. This is from the teeth   From the teats of cockroaches   by orphans.   They have the tiniest hands. Their nails are clipped.   It's just   ecstasy.   You should buy that above Bitcoin.  

[02:05:19] Unknown:

Thanks so much for listening. Wait a minute. What? Goodbye. Do this.  

[02:05:24] Unknown:

No. No. I'm not happy with that.   Alright. Alright. Again. Again. Beefinitiative.com.   Yeah. That's my one. Stay humble, Stacks. That's Beefinitiative.com.   Don't invest in any of these companies.   Yeah.   But I I'll I'll second the like and subscribe part and definitely comment.   We love your comments.   We appreciate you, and I look forward to joining these 2 gentlemen again.   So if you do comment, if you do provide us feedback, we will use that going forward.  

[02:05:54] Unknown:

The the comments are just gonna be, like, remove the entirely  

[02:05:58] Unknown:

from this podcast.   And don't forget to mind your p's and q's. Oh,  

[02:06:03] Unknown:

he said it. That's it. That's it. That's all we got.